http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/dg4_ct_camel.jpg

Military Advisor: Chieftess
Military Deputy: Sarevok

Assistant Posistions -

Commander of the Army:
Commander of the Navy: CivGeneral
Commander of the Airforce: Zarn

I would like to apply for Commander of the Navy :).

Admiral CivGeneral,

Welcome :)

I trust that you will be able to give specific plans concerning military use of Fanatica's Navy and places to attack or raid. The navy will become fairly important for Persia, So I will expect you to understand what is neccesary. In turn, I shall make sure that the governors give you much to "play with" as possible.

Concerning a personal note, I have some ways I think you can "come back". I beleive that you ought to prove yourself a capable military planner in this position. You also should give very elaborate plans that give details on operations, possibly using CT or my plans as examples for structure. Also and critically, a defeatist attitude is not a good thing to have if you are to be in our office. I believe that If you follow these 2 things, you can begin to repair your reputation, just be sure not to do anything... strange.

I will look forward to sucessful campaigns with your assistance to aid our glorious armies.

- Sarevok

BTW CT, I have accepted.

For Audiac, I plan to build the following military units in the next 10 turns:
- 10 artillery (tell me if you want infantry instead, but then I need to build barracks first)
- 2 galleons (for the Zulus Campaign)
- 3 ironclads (before we learn combustion; tell me if you don't want them)
- 3 destroyers

PS: We need a "navy" in the inland sea: at least 1 ironclad to sink the barbarian galleys after they are red-lined with artillery. Build, sink, disband.

hehe, but those barb-galleys-stuck-in-a-lake are a classic! :D

Those instructions look good, although, I'd like to see an inf or two (or more :p).

Naval Reports from the Dreadnought Maddox

Current Total Cargo Capacity: 40 units
(1 Galleon = 4 unit capacity)
Ironclads: 4
Galleons: 10
Battleship: N/A
Destroyers: N/A
AEGUIS Cruisers: N/A
Aircraft Carriers: N/A
Submarines (Diesel): N/A
Submarines (Nuclear): N/A
Transport: N/A

I would like to apply for Commander of the Air Force (when the time comes).

Fleet Admiral CivGeneral's Proposal

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/DG4_Northern_Beachhead.jpg

All units that the Army wishes to use in the Persian campaing must be in the following cities for this theater: Anarchyisgodville, Grand Bricolage, and Ville de Buisson.

For this campaing I need around 15 transports (By the time combustion is discovered). Each transport will be docked in Antillia, Grand Bricolage, and Ville de Buisson to load up army units.

Transports that are disembarking from Ville de Buisson will go to the tile 2 SW and 1 NW of Samaria and will unload there cargo on the tile 1 W of Samaria

Transports that are disembarking from Grand Bricolage will go to the tile 1 S of Sidon and unload there cargo on the tile 1 SE of Sidon

Transports that are disembarking from Antillia will go to the tile 1 S of Hamadan and unload there cargo on the tile 1 SE of Hamadan.

For shore bombardment, I would need 7 Destroyers/Ironclads to have them soften up the defenses of Hamadan, Sidon, and Antillia. Each Destroyer will sail to the following tiles: (1 W of Hamadan, 1 S of Hamadan, 1 N of Hamadan, 1 SW of Sidon, 1 SE of Sidon, 1 S of Samaria)

I am planning to have a ferry service once the 3 persian cities have been captured. Each transport will return back to there respected port, load up troops and sail back to the captured persian city.

i suggest guarding the coastal cities during our upcoming wars,
and when the time comes I believe civgeneral's plan would work very good

also, i will not be able to help in the war effort the next few tcs becuase my best city takes 30 turns for just 1 infantry...

That plan is not good. [list=a] It is a bad idea to split out forces in 3 groups. Persia has railroads and can attack us at the weakest spot with full force.
It is a bad idea to make the landing on flat terrain with no defense bonus. If we attack in this area, we should land all of our forces on the hills SE or SW of Samaria getting a 50% defence bonus.
10 transports would be plenty for such an operation.
We should do the Zulus Campaign first and have a beachhead on that continent before we declare war.
We should ally with the Aztecs.
[/list=a]

Tao, My plan is good. It is a good idea to split our forces into 3 groups. When we split the beachhead forces, we can gain more cities. Though I can revise the landing beach head to land on the hills of Samaria. I wond mind 10 transports. I picked 15 transports since it was a round easy number to work with,
I disagree with declaring war against the Zulus because they are on the other side of the contenet and we would have a long time to get there, but I do agree on allying with the Aztecs.

My comments on tao's comments.

a - I agree with tao.
b - I agree with tao.
c - I agree with tao.
d - I don't agree with tao. We need to attack Persia as soon as we have tanks and they don't. We are in the strange situation that time is first on our side. But as soon as we have tanks, time is on Persia's side. The longer we then wait; the stronger the Persians become.
e - I agree

Extra comments: Sign an alliance with the Zulu as well, possibly 1 or 2 turns before we land. This will focus the Persians to divert their forces out of their lands, thus reducing their strenght in counter-attack.

I think we should land in the jills near Samaria. All of our forces should be concentrated there. Once we establish a beachhead, we set up base there.

What units are Persia using?

I also agree with Tao :eek:, and we should really land where we can capture the most cities in 1 turn, while landing on a hill or mountain (behind a river would be good).

Originally posted by Rik Meleet
d - I don't agree with tao. We need to attack Persia as soon as we have tanks and they don't. We are in the strange situation that time is first on our side. But as soon as we have tanks, time is on Persia's side. The longer we then wait; the stronger the Persians become. Do the math: we need 12 - 15 turns to get motorized transport. We need 4 - 6 turns to produce enough tanks. Total: 16 - 20 turns.

We can build 4 galleons/transports in New Falcon's Heaven and Ville de Buisson in 5-6 turns. We can get to New Hlobane in 7 turns and back in 5 turns. Total: 17 - 18 turns.

Thus we have no problem to send an occupying force of artillery, infantry, and cavalry to get the furs from the Zulus first without delaying the Persian operation. :goodjob:

Since my first plan has been shot down before even it set sail. Here is my revised plan.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/DG4_Northern_Beachhead_Revised1.jpg

All units that the Army wishes to use in the Persian campaing must be in the following cities for this theater: Anarchyisgodville, Grand Bricolage, and Ville de Buisson.

For this campaing I need around 10 transports (By the time combustion is discovered). The 10 Transports will sail and dock in Anarchyisgodville to load up ships

All Transports will head to the tile 1 S of Samaria and unload troops 1 SW or SE of Samaria.

For shore bombardment, I would need 7 Destroyers/Ironclads to have them soften up the defenses of Hamadan, Sidon, and Samaria. Each Destroyer will sail to the following tiles: (1 W of Hamadan, 1 S of Hamadan, 1 N of Hamadan, 1 SW of Sidon, 1 SE of Sidon, 1 S of Samaria)

I am planning to have a ferry service once Samaria have been captured. Each transport will return back to there respected port, load up troops and sail back to the captured persian city.

Thats a better location, but im fearing a Gallipoli-type situation there unless we can get tanks into the first landing force.

Originally posted by Sarevok
Thats a better location, but im fearing a Gallipoli-type situation there unless we can get tanks into the first landing force.

Hmm, I beleve the best time to declare war against the Persians is after Mobile Transportation (By now we would have World War I tanks like the German A7V and the British MkIV, but thats in my mod :p ;) )

do we have any idea how large the persian navy is?
a large navy might force us to make more destroyers, by the time we get motorized transport persia might have combustion

Originally posted by Black_Hole9
do we have any idea how large the persian navy is?
a large navy might force us to make more destroyers, by the time we get motorized transport persia might have combustion

True, but hopefully by then Battleships will be sliding out of the shipyards of Fanatica. We can however have who ever is in charge of spying to send a spy over there to see what the Persians have.

this term boots in fa so, he is in charge of espionage, but we should only do it right b4 the war

Originally posted by Black_Hole9
do we have any idea how large the persian navy is?
a large navy might force us to make more destroyers, by the time we get motorized transport persia might have combustion

In Vanilla Civ3, the AI rarely builds any ships. If we can take the chokehold, we can build airports in *ALL* cities. That way, transports aren't needed (except for artillery).

Minister Chieftess

I realise that you have much to do with the planning of the conquest of Greece and Russia at the moment, but I was wondering about the preparations needed for the conquest of the Persian continent. There has been mention of a force to take some Zulu cities around the choke point, gaining us furs and gems to keep our people happy. What are our options for preparing for this operation? Are there preparations we could make earlier rather than later? Or will diverting some of our production to this endeavour now, jeopardise or conquest of Greece and Egypt (or England)? Perhaps we could have some discussion focussed on this matter.

I have been studying your plans for the Greek and Egyptian campaigns and am greatly looking forward to putting them into practice - roll on Wednesday! (wanna have fun, yeah, wanna have fun - hope RM adds that to the Music Update!)

Originally posted by Furiey
Minister Chieftess

I realise that you have much to do with the planning of the conquest of Greece and Russia at the moment, but I was wondering about the preparations needed for the conquest of the Persian continent. There has been mention of a force to take some Zulu cities around the choke point, gaining us furs and gems to keep our people happy. What are our options for preparing for this operation? Are there preparations we could make earlier rather than later? Or will diverting some of our production to this endeavour now, jeopardise or conquest of Greece and Egypt (or England)? Perhaps we could have some discussion focussed on this matter.

I have been studying your plans for the Greek and Egyptian campaigns and am greatly looking forward to putting them into practice - roll on Wednesday! (wanna have fun, yeah, wanna have fun - hope RM adds that to the Music Update!)

:lol:

First, we'll have to see if we want to head right into England, or prepare to take out the Zulus. There was talk of using the upgraded transports to shuttle troops down to England. If we do that, and the war with Egypt is nearly finished, then start moving transports to the southern tip of the island.

If not, then move them to the western edge that's closest to the Zulu lands. We'll also need transports on the east coast of our main land, so that we can attack the Zulus from both sides.

The ten galleons/transports are more than enough right now for the Greek-Egyptian island. All other galleons/transports can head for the east coast.

Another bit of Preperation - Flight. We *NEED* to learn this tech for the final assualt to be successful. When we take out the 3 or so Zulu cities, we'll need an airport rushed near the chokepoint.

Many, many cities in Norwich are not garrisoned. Has a decision been made to leave them totally ungarrisoned? If not, then who is to supply the garrison - the Ministry of Defense or must Norwich raise its own troops?

Sincerely,
donsig
Governor of Norwich

PS - I do hope that my position as Prosecutor in the CC against you will not affect the garrisoning of the province. ;)

Originally posted by donsig
Sincerely,
donsig
Governor of Norwich

PS - I do hope that my position as Prosecutor in the CC against you will not affect the garrisoning of the province. ;) Do I spot a copy-paste-edit here ?

Originally posted by Rik Meleet
Do I spot a copy-paste-edit here ?

No need to do that. It's a form letter. I've had hundreds of 'em printed up - all I have to do is fill in the blanks. :lol:

Originally posted by donsig
Many, many cities in Norwich are not garrisoned. Has a decision been made to leave them totally ungarrisoned? If not, then who is to supply the garrison - the Ministry of Defense or must Norwich raise its own troops?

Sincerely,
donsig
Governor of Norwich

PS - I do hope that my position as Prosecutor in the CC against you will not affect the garrisoning of the province. ;)

:lol: I may send a MP force just to calm you down. ;)

But, since the AI rarely, if ever, launches a good naval invasion in Vanilla Civ3, the current infantry on the railnet will suffice. (If you look in the HOF thread, I've seen elite players -Moonsigner- with no garrisons on sid level, on a pangaea, but that's C3C, and the Vanilla Civ3 AI is clueless when it comes to landings).

We're in a republic, so defenses really do nothing more than make sure cities won't be taken on the 2nd turn. I will have infantry in our coastal cities, which also includes your province. Any AI that lands, we can quickly defeat thanks to the railnet. A few more infantry (and workers) though, will head over to the Greek/Egyptian island for defense of the cavs.

I agree with CT on this issue.

What CT points out is true, but irrelevant. Does it really matter that in a parallel universe there are Deities and Moonsingers who know the AI won't land ?
We are a Fanatikan government / Democracy. We aren't aware of what an AI or a Moonsinger is; we are Fanatikans and we have an obligation to protect our citizens and cities. This isn't a game we can predict; this is a society!

What I mean is that everyone knows that in a VC3 game the AI sucks at naval landings. But we shouldn't play this as a Civ-game, we should play this as a Role-playing game. The Government should protect the lands and citizens, even if we know how the AI plays and they will never be a threat. We know, the AI knows, but the in-game citizens don't know and their will is the law (democracry).

Let us assune I share Rik's point of view. Hypothetically. Then all coastal cities are border cities and need a garrison of say 6 units. We don't know that there are no vicious Vikings out there!

Without looking at the save, this means about 30 cities multiplied with 5-10 units: in total about 200 units for garrison. People may feel save, but have to pay the burden of upkeep and spend the time producing these units.

We may instead decide to build naval units patroling the seas and making sure that no foreign ships aproach our shores unnoticed. We need a lot less ships than units, and peaceful citizens will not be bothered by drunken soldiers roaming the streets of Fanatica. ;)

And even if the above assumption is not true, I would favor to build ships patroling and controling the sea. :goodjob:

Originally posted by Rik Meleet
What CT points out is true, but irrelevant. Does it really matter that in a parallel universe there are Deities and Moonsingers who know the AI won't land ?
We are a Fanatikan government / Democracy. We aren't aware of what an AI or a Moonsinger is; we are Fanatikans and we have an obligation to protect our citizens and cities. This isn't a game we can predict; this is a society!

What I mean is that everyone knows that in a VC3 game the AI sucks at naval landings. But we shouldn't play this as a Civ-game, we should play this as a Role-playing game. The Government should protect the lands and citizens, even if we know how the AI plays and they will never be a threat. We know, the AI knows, but the in-game citizens don't know and their will is the law (democracry).

And on that note, Sarevok and I have been LONG asking for more defenders, and all we get are bank tellers! ;)

Let's once again assume I would share Rik's view about this being a Role-playing game:

How can we reduce science spending to serve money for the last turns, unless we know the game mechanics?

How can we discuss research several steps in the future?

How can we have regulations about Wonder pre-builds?

How is it possible that we switch construction from temple to cavalry and vice versa?

;) :confused: :D :confused: ;)

I'm having in field day! I can disagree with tao again !

Originally posted by tao
(..)all coastal cities are border cities and need a garrison of say 6 units. We don't know that there are no vicious Vikings out there! Just 1 or 2 defenders + a quick-response force of 10 Cavs and 5 arties are enough. And we do know there aren't Vikings around.
Originally posted by tao
We need a lot less ships than units, and peaceful citizens will not be bothered by drunken soldiers roaming the streets of Fanatica. ;) There is no known history of drunk Fanatikan soldiers roaming the streets. There is however a, founded, fear amongst our citizens of drunk non-Fanatikan soldiers roaming the streets.
Originally posted by tao
And even if the above assumption is not true, I would favor to build ships patroling and controling the sea. :goodjob: No problem with that as an extra, but it isn't a substitute for land-forces. Landforces don't sink and can heal on the spot when damaged.

* How can we reduce science spending to serve money for the last turns, unless we know the game mechanics? - We do know the general line of the game-mechanics as described in the manuals; we just shouldn't know the AI-tactics. But to answer your question; our scientists estimate how many years it takes to research a tech. So far they were always spot-on.

* How can we discuss research several steps in the future? - We do know the general line of the game-mechanics as described in the manuals; we just shouldn't know the AI-tactics.

* How can we have regulations about Wonder pre-builds? - I finally agree with you. Pre-building uses the knowledge of experience that shifting doesn't cost any shields and that the AI doesn't prebuild (at least doesn't plan them).

* How is it possible that we switch construction from temple to cavalry and vice versa? - Again I agree, but the Democracy-game concept is forcing to do this. You can argue about cashrushes as well; but that is in the manual; chapter 11.

While I agree that the demogame is roleplay, it should also be about strategy. Maybe this is why we tend to limp through the MSDG... Take a look at the first part of DG1. It was FULL of strategies and how to play, and how to win the "Domino War".

Let's put it this way, the US was not concerned about the possible lose of North Dakota, during WW2. Hawaii and Alaska were a different story, on the other hand.

Just my 2 cents.

Originally posted by Chieftess
While I agree that the demogame is roleplay, it should also be about strategy. Maybe this is why we tend to limp through the MSDG... Take a look at the first part of DG1. It was FULL of strategies and how to play, and how to win the "Domino War". My strategy is always to advocate getting beachheads with resources: Audiac city, Zulus Campaign (regrettably delayed), and now England. Do you think it is possible (I do) to already send 2 transports into position for the invasion of England. IMHO it would be great if we acquire at least 1 or 2 cities before they get nationalism/riflss. The latest when tanks take over the Egyptian campaing, we can send some infantry, artillery, cavalry down to England.

I would also much more sign alliances with the AIs to pull them into the war and slow them down.

I'm already planning to start sending transports towards the bottom of the former Greek/Egyptian island in preperation for England. I'm also planning on sending a few transports (perhaps with some troops loaded on and waiting - i.e., infantry and tanks) to the east side of our continent in preperation for an attack from the other side of the Zulus. It's about 6 turns until tanks, 4 turns until flight. Then another few turns after that to start building airports. If we can get 20-25 airports, we can airlift a good number of units each turn.

Minister,

the year now is 1490AD.

Do you want St. Octaviansburg to continue building a destroyer every other turn?
Do you want New Falcon's Heaven to continue building a destroyer every 3 turns?

I usually prefer 2 destroyers over one battleship. Do you want some carriers? Why?

Yes, I can use a few carriers for when we get ready to attack the Zulus. They'll provide up close air support and recon. You can keep building Destroyers too. (It'll take them 9 turns to reach the shores of New Ngome and New Swazi. I'll also need some airports if we're going to be airlifting soon (flight in 4 if we go at 90% science).

Start moving all but 1 transport in Raven's Flight to 1 tile south of Oscar Meyerville. (One transport will be needed to shuttle over tanks, and other units if we need it).
We have 10 transports at RF. I would leave 2 for shuffling toops back to the main continent (to move against Persia).

I would send 3 south to invade England; 3 are plenty with infantry, artillery, and tanks.

I would send 5 to the NE coast (Grand Bricolage) for the coming landing on the Persian hills near Samaria.

But that is just how I do my successful campaigns ....... :p

I was thinking about 2 transports, but I had to go to work before I could edit it. :)

Congrats Zarn, you have earned your wings! :D

Congrats Zarn, you have earned your wings! :D

Yee Haaa!!!

-Lord Zarn, Chief Justice and Commander of the Fanatican Airforce :yeah:

Please go around to the back of the barracks for your camel.


Sopwith Camel, that is!

Minister: I posted the Audiac instructions for the next turnchat. If you want a different mix of tank, bomber, infantry, and artillery, please tell me and I will consider it.

Minister,

the MIA has posted in the tc instruction thread:GOVERNORS! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE BUILD DEFENSIVE UNITS ASAP.
If we are not going to build defensive units, at least station tanks in the cities.Do you want us to stop building tanks and build infantry instead?

In cities with 50 and 100spt, build tanks. In cities with 30 and 45+spt, build infantry. Feel free to have any 90spt cities (if any) build infantry every turn.

Well, the term is nearly over, and we are set to win tomorrow. This has been an amazing past 2 terms, starting out as the next-to-weakest civ in the entire game, and ending up stronger than Persia just before the Aztec War began!

An some images to commemorate our victory (note - I would have made it from term 1, but Thunderfall deleted the saves in the uploads6 folder, including demogame saves... :()

Term 4 - We started out weak, with Egyptian, Indian, and German cities in our borders, but all that was about to change, and quickly with our Golden Age. This saw the conquest of 4 civs. We were the first to the Industrial era, along with Persia.

Term 5 - This saw us quickly become the 2nd most powerful civ, virtually on par with Persia. We also conquered 6 civs this term. 10 civs in 2 terms, pretty good for cavs and tanks! We were also the only civ to be in the modern era, with Persia not even having tanks (they did have a few bombers and fighters, but that's as far as they got).

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/DG4_term4n5.jpg

great job ct and sarvok!