I was thinking of, instead of the Master of Orion-type space ideas you see a lot, a different kind of outer space mod.

It would take place in the near-future. Say, twenty years from now. You would take control of one of the modern nations of Earth in a race to colonize the solar system.

There would be no Faster-than-Light travel. At all. (Except, maybe, as a replacement for the "Spaceship" victory - get to Alpha Centauri that much faster!) Instead, the game would focus on expanding out across the solar system, mining asteroids and planets. Cities would be replaced with space stations that expand modularly. So "irrigation" would be replaced with hydroponics units, and mines with refineries.

The whole idea would be to have a more "science-y" approach to science fiction - no wacky aliens or relativity-bending technobabble.

Comments, ideas on viability?

good idea. but what about the tech ages?

Thats a good idea. I can imagine how it could work, but like everything I'd like, I would work just with a preset map.

But no Aliens? Not even Marsians? Or set it to 2063 and add some Vulcans, oh...err forget it ;)

Civilizations could be European Union, Japan, China and USA. Maybe Australia too?

all share 1 planet? how big will the planets be?

Originally posted by Bob McDob
I was thinking of, instead of the Master of Orion-type space ideas you see a lot, a different kind of outer space mod.

It would take place in the near-future. Say, twenty years from now. You would take control of one of the modern nations of Earth in a race to colonize the solar system.

There would be no Faster-than-Light travel. At all. (Except, maybe, as a replacement for the "Spaceship" victory - get to Alpha Centauri that much faster!) Instead, the game would focus on expanding out across the solar system, mining asteroids and planets. Cities would be replaced with space stations that expand modularly. So "irrigation" would be replaced with hydroponics units, and mines with refineries.

The whole idea would be to have a more "science-y" approach to science fiction - no wacky aliens or relativity-bending technobabble.

Comments, ideas on viability?

To mine most planets, you would need some serious technobabble. Even mining Mars is hardly within reach of the next century. Mining boiling Venus, or freezing, supergravity laden Jupiter..... you are gonna need some kind of relativity bending anti-gravity tricks.

Originally posted by Kenta'arka
Thats a good idea. I can imagine how it could work, but like everything I'd like, I would work just with a preset map.

But no Aliens? Not even Marsians? Or set it to 2063 and add some Vulcans, oh...err forget it ;)

Civilizations could be European Union, Japan, China and USA. Maybe Australia too?

Forgot Russia. India or Pakistan would be nice too, thought I am not sure they have the ability too, even 20 years from now. South Africa could also be thrown in.

Good idea :).
I always love space mods but these types can get very complicated very fast and become unfinishable. I do hope you know what you are geting into....

Well I could be doable, you'd probably have to set it up something like this

continents=planets (however 'planets' couldn't be large and round as you would want all of it equally accessible from space, so a thin line (or maybe a 'O shape))

water=space
possibly coast= close orbit,
sea= Planet to moon space..since the Moons of Gas Giants would be most important,
ocean=Interplanetary (probably with a VERY high movement cost and let most ships sink on it so that they are unlikely to stay)

Different Planets would each have at least one unique terrain type.
The 'Earth' Terrain types would probably be super
a 'power' would probably be represented by a small number of cities (1 to 3) on earth.

Non Earth Terrain types should probably be limited in food production so that any Cities founded there will be highly unproductive ie 0 or 1 food production, but can serve as a port for shipping key resources back to Earth (the Colonization Conquest is probably a good option for this.)

The eventual actual 'Colonization of space' ie self supporting cities could be modeled by the discovery of 'irrigation' or 'forest planting' or even 'harbors' to allow the 'space cities' to grow.

Eventually super advanced settlement technologies could allow removal of 'Marsh' and 'Jungle' Terrains so that they can be developed

On those 'terraforming methods', harbors are the only one that would be applied to all terrain types, 'Irrigation', 'Forest' (either clearing or planting) and 'Wetlands clearing' can be applied to three different terrains.

Modelling how the powers on Earth would interact with each other on Earth might be difficult, especially as all Space Race competitors would be assumed to have MAD capability, which prohibits open warfare until some degree of SDI is developed.

Other Ideas, Cultural buildings limited to Earth (they require certain resources in their city square found only on Earth Terrain) at least for a while.. this means capturing an opponent's space city would not be viable for that time period.


I'd see the Eras moving something like this (each being a 25 to 250 year period depending on what you think about our rate of tech progression)

1.. Colonies and Early Cities on the Moon: Exploration everywhere else (Settler-carrying Transports are wheeled and 'Ocean' is impassable to wheeled units)

2..Colonies and Early Cities on all Planets, except maybe Gas Giants and Venus, which should have some colonizable 'orbital' terrain. (Settler carying Transports are allowed into the Ocean.. but they still sink so increasing ship movement is the key ro making to the other planet)

3..True InterStellar Period... Cities on other planets actually gain the capability to grow, and settler carrying transports no longer sink in the ocean

4..Far Future..when the Launching of a Ship to Alpha Centauri can be done..Cities on Other Planets become as productive as the ones on Earth. (Gas Giant and Venus Terrain might be usable at this point)


I'd probably make some Very expensive Highly defensive units that Can't be transported as your early Earth 'Armies'. As Tech went on they would gain attack faster than Defense, so that at some point in the 3rd or 4th Era attacking an Earth City actually becomes Viable

I probably wouldn't allow Governments to rush with money (because that would offer a too cheap way of building up an Extraterrestrial City).. I'd suggest 'no rush', or maybe 'pop rush'

For Early Governments.. and typicals
Representative (US)
Multinational (EU)
and
Dictatorial (China)
(Those would be the two government 'Axes' I would use, how Centralized/Multinational it is and how Representative/Dictatorial it is)

Probably do something to discourage early government switching.. possibly Ban it altogether?...maybe make anarchy require a certain tech.... Perhaps have MultiNational as a 'Default' Government with limited use, and have some civs start out with 'Unified Government' type techs, non tradable, expensive, low level, non required techs... so that it takes time for an EU to be able to truly Unify.. perhaps several stages.

Also possibly make Anarchy Worse.. charge building maintenance or something like that.

Somewhat Less Centralized Governments should actually be useful in terms of managing interplanetary colonies probably by having lower corruption... this could be balanced by War Weariness or Economic Penalties (ie Standard Tile Penalty or no +1 Trade Bonus, etc.)

This sounds good. The one thing that always bugs in space series or stories or even mods is that every planet is united. Take earth for example: We ain't too united are we?

btw, the planets should be round circles, but with unpassable terrain in the middle (as the planets core). Maby workers could build roads in the closer core (callep diaper in finnish :lol: ) but it would take very long to biuld the road (tunnel)

Originally posted by Krikkitone

For Early Governments.. and typicals
Representative (US)
Multinational (EU)
and
Dictatorial (China)


Shouldn't USA be a Dictatorship too? :lol:

I left the Russians out, because I don't think they won't be able to spend enough money for that kind of project, same for Pakistan and India. Maybe Southafrica...

Originally posted by Paasky
This sounds good. The one thing that always bugs in space series or stories or even mods is that every planet is united. Take earth for example: We ain't too united are we?

btw, the planets should be round circles, but with unpassable terrain in the middle (as the planets core). Maby workers could build roads in the closer core (callep diaper in finnish :lol: ) but it would take very long to biuld the road (tunnel)

Possibly, but space issues (No Pun intended) get serious here, as you are going to have about 9 main continents some with sea connected outlying islands that can hold 5-10 cities each... all seperated by fair expanses of Ocean. a huge map ~350x350 has about 125 thousand squares, leaving about 10 thousand squares for each planetary grouping If they were all equally proportioned. you might want to have closer planets actually Be closer ... actually, This does allow a reasonable level of distance... Never mind.

However, the issue of Terrain types comes up, because a 'core' terrain is just one more to worry about... and that issue fails to model the 3d nature of the planetary surface.

As for who to include, since it is a scenario, you could easily allow some positions to start off better than others (more cities, more developed cities, more developed terrain... count Mining as 'development' or something like that)

So you could include a China with half of its squares undeveloped, and make 'Development' ie mining a slow thing

or a Pakistan/S. Africa say with one small low pop undeveloped city.. not enough to do things now but possibly later.

To model all the Unaligned Nations, one could put them into one 'Nation' with the worst type of Government (a 'None' type.. Anarchy like but permanent..possibly with drafting abilities for defensive forces, as well as some 'Hidden Nationality' raider/partisans producing buildings) so that their terrain is only used when someone else conquers them (probably through propaganda, ie economic might, in the early stages of the game, but moving to military once it becomes more reasonable... Decentralized governments would probably get a proaganda advantage... since a significant country joining the current EU is a lot more likely than a country joining the current US.)

Earth would probably have to have space for a good 40-50 metropolises. (other bodies could range from a comparable amount ie Mars down to one square Islands for asteroids or very small moons.) so about 1000 squares for the actual planet itself.. another few thousand for the water around it... that should work.

A big point would be for Gas Giants Not to be big, they would primarily be a central point around which moons are arranged.

Originally posted by Krikkitone
... as you are going to have about 9 main continents some with sea connected outlying islands that can hold 5-10 cities each...

10...You know, the NASA found a new planet a few months ago ;)

That planetoid is smaller then our moon though, If I remember right...

I think it would be possible have a planet earth being about 50 or so squares total or so. Enough room for the major powers to have a couple three cities and some non-aligned stuff around to. But each of the cities is still going to be very small...

You don't have to simulate "actual" distances between planets, or long distances, that can be done completly through "naval" units movement rates. You just have to make sure that a city on one planet can't amass enough culture to have land on another plant. So if interplanetary distance is ocean, you only have to have 6 squares between planets (to make sure there's some room between planets if there's a city on both of them).

Bombardment rates would have to be similar as well, you wouldn't want to bombard one planet from another planet normally (though some sort of weapon allowing you too would be neat). ICBM's/cruise missiles pose a problem in this though. One idea would be to give them a bombard range of one, and a really high ground movement and treat all terrain as roads.

I got some ideas of how a map might look, but I'll need to make a graphic for it to make any sense. Maybe I'll give it a pass through lightwave...

Don't forget the moons, where the best potential for actual colinization lies, due to geothermal heat and ice.

This is a good idea. You could probably use mostly the same terrian types....but the units would have to be reworked...as would most of the rules.

Check out this thread for my ideas on how space terrain should work:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81022&perpage=20&pagenumber=3

Then, instead of having planets as an actual terrain type, you could make them resources. You could have 9-10 different planet resources, which have different bonuses, and then you COULD have random-gen maps that actually look good.

Also, even if aliens arent a race in the mod or anything, perhaps they could be the "barbarians". ;)

- GIDustin

If you have Conquests you can use the plague feature and call it an 'extra-terrestrial virus'.

you know, i personally dont think China will be communist later in the future, but how are you going to have ships access the "sea" when a city is near the center of a planet. i would arrange a planet to have 8 squares, and a city at the center, and 1 square of "coast" for ship access.

Maybe making Spaceships Air units, traveling like Civ2 Air units?

Remember the idea is a near future space race so nothing more than our solar system, so each planet has to host multiple cities... as you would only have a few planets

Making the planets Resources would be an option for a 1 city equals one system type game.

(Also the AI apparently can't handle Moving Air units, so if it is going to act intelligently, Ships that move through the ocean, but still sink in it should model that movement well enough.. ie they have a limited 'range' equivalent to one or two turns movement.)

Actually, I was thinking of having the idea of "space cities" profilate ... so that you can build colonies in orbit and in deep space, but they will of course be rather less productive than planetary cities (and be wholy dependent on trade).

Anyway, I'm writing background for a scenario and general sci-fi setting. It would take place sometime in the third age, where independent colonial nations have sprung up around the solar system and the nations of Earth are launching a crusade to "recapture" them. (It also means that I don't have to think so much about the tech tree).

After the invention of warp engines, you could build "aircraft" that can re-base almost anywhere in a turn. Another idea there.

But he don't want faster-than-light travel