http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/FinanceandLabor.JPG

This is our financial situation in 1430 AD.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Finance_1430_AD.JPG

The GPT is healthy, but the amount of cash is limited. That means not many cashrush requests can be honored.

Please post your cashrush-requests here. The Minister of F and L will assess them.

In 1430 AD we have 51 workers and 72 slaves.

Big projects ahead of us:
- Railing the nation.
- Improving the tiles in our newly acquired lands.

Future projects:
- Assist the troops in conquering our enemies.
- Polution clean-up.
- Clear jungle, reforest the tundra's

You can post your labor requests in this thread.

Free the slaves !!

Starting on turn 4, I'd like to rush 2 galleons per turn (80g each, 160g per 2 upgrades a turn), for a total of 10 galleon upgrades (800g to be spread out over a number of turns).

Originally posted by Chieftess
Starting on turn 4, I'd like to rush 2 galleons per turn (80g each, 160g per 2 upgrades a turn), for a total of 10 galleon upgrades (800g to be spread out over a number of turns). I assume you mean upgrade?

Originally posted by Rik Meleet
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Finance_1430_AD.JPG

The GPT is healthy, ..... I regret having to disagree again. :( When I look at the situation, I see things different. We loose about 40% of the city income to corruption. That is A LOT for a commercial civ. I would be ashamed, if this would be my solo-game.
If we loose the 461gpt we get from Persia, we run a deficit of -164gpt at 80% research. Bad. Thus we have to do some serious cash improvement.

Build courthouses NOW in:
City of the Damned
Exile (granary is stupid stupid!)
Mill Valley
Red Sky
Terminus
New Edessa
TBC
The White City
Wyfurd

Build markets NOW in:
Anwerp (after library)
Bootsville
Fallsong of Sentienne
Grand Bricolage
Grindelwald
Liebling (after library)
Mure
Mr. Roger's Neiberhood
New Edessa (after courthouse)
Oldenburg

Stop/don't start improvement builds in cities hopelessly lost to corruption; build workers, artillery, and create specialists:
Amber
Arterus
Avon Nova
Azura's Star
Berlingueria
Brieux
Broussard
Caesarea
Camelot
Desolatem
Finklewink
Frickmenstein
Gypsie
Inveltorvich
Jedina
Kazas
Las Cannibales
Nea Romana
New Gondoloin
New Transvaal
Norwich
Oleby
Paalsville
PDX III
Regent Town
Russka
Salzburg
Sandy
Stavanger
St. Broussard
Tabita
Taylorpolis
Tiriolo
Vanspuur
Wainuiomata
Woodridge

Other recommended builds:
Almaren: harbor
Antilia: library (get the whales)
Happy City: harbor (more food from whales, upgrade/heal ships)
Steal this City: library, market

This should improve our cash situation by at least +100gpt. Let's see whether the governors are smart enough to agree ....

I expect the Minister for Finance and Labor to work with/on the governors. ;)

PS: Vandelay will finish Wall Street next turn. Thus it is advisable to have a treasury of 1000g to earn another 50gpt interest.

Edit: sorted lists alphabetically

Make sure that rails and irragation are the order of the day in those corrupt cities.

Current financial situation:

Zulu's pay us 49 gpt for the next 5 turns.
Greece: no ongoing deals.
Persia pay us 30 gpt for dyes, can be ended immediately.
Persia pay us 116 gpt for the next 5 turns.
Persia pay us 315 gpt for the next 17 turns.
Aztecs: no ongoing deals.
Egypt: no ongoing deals.
England: no ongoing deals.

Summarise:
We can loose 30 gpt immediately.
We can loose 165 gpt in 5 turns.
We can loose 315 gpt in 17 turns.

So, as long as the Persian deal continues; we aren't going in the negative.

I request 12-20 native workers (or their equivalent foreign workers - captured workers included) to be transported onto the Greek island for railnet building. This will help us speed up our attack on Athens.

@ tao. I am not the controller of buildqueues. I can authorise cashrushes, if they are requested in this thread.

@ chieftess: I will instruct the shipment of those workers to the Greece-lands.

We in the great province of Norwich would like to know if there are any funds available for rushing courthouses or agueducts in our poor province. Rather than just ask for all kinds of things we can never hope to get is it possible for you to give us an idea how much (if any) gold we might be able to spend in Norwich? Given some sort of budget we could decide which specific city improvement(s) to request.

Thank you for your time,
donsig
Governor of Norwich

PS: I hope my acting as prosecutor in the CC against you will not reflect badly on Norwich. :D

Minister,

since your office is new, you start with a clean sheet and may want to establish some rules for people asking for money. A good point might be to always ask them what we (Fantica) gain from spending money hard-earned by the citizens.

Example:
If we spend 380 gold on hurrying an aqueduct, what is the return on investment? When will we see an actual profit (i.e. make more than 380 gold) on it? Will it actuall cause harm if we don't spend the money (i.e. delaying attacks if we don't upgrade or high risk of city flips). What are the alternatives? (i.e. wouldn't it be better to build a settler and found another city?)

regards
tao

Great news, Rik Meleet! :D

In the first of my many decrees to deal with the rampant corruption that plagues my province of Nihilon, I will be selling all four Banks that fall under my juridiction. This action will net us 80 gold total(20g apiece).

For the moment, I would like to request a rush of a Courthouse in the city of Wyfurd for 32 gold. I am also considering a Granary rush or two, but am still weighing the pros and cons of these actions.


Respectfully,

Donovan Zoi
Governor of Nihilon

@ Governor Donovan Zoi.
Selling the banks in the preturn nets us 80 gold + 4gpt for reduced maintanance cost. I think it's only fair this money is returned to Nihilon. Perhaps not immediately all of it, but in due time (when our funds have risen a bit). I do approve the cashrush of a courthouse in Wyfurd. I just hope it will pay for it's own upkeep, but if not you still gain us 3gpt. Granary-cashrush-requests are not approved (yet).
I am not seeing the benefit for granaries in your province yet. Perhaps when we know Sanitation.

@ Minister Chieftess. I take your request as "After we know what 'transports' are I request to upgrade our 10 galleons to 'transports'; 2 every turn, costing us 160 gpt (for 5 turns) thus 800 gold". I absolutely see the need for this, but the floor of the treasury-chest is visible. If we have 1000+ gold or 200+ gpt when we learn Combustion I approve the upgrade of 2 galleons a turn. If we have 500+ gold or 100+ gpt I approve 1 per turn. If we have less; we must upgrade 1 galleon each other turn. We'll talk about this again 10 turns from now.

@ Governor Donsig. I hold no grudge against you; I chose you as my VP because you follow the lines of the law so tightly. I expected you to CC and to prosecute me. I would have been disappointed if you hadn't.
For Norwich-province I have very little funds. Courthouses aren't worth the money and labor-time spend on it. At this moment in time Norwich's only real valluable product (besides it's 1 wine and Oil) is food. Aquaducts, harbors, to a lesser extent granaries and especially workers are the thing Norwich can help our nation with. In an irrigation-project more can be gained from Norwich. If Governor Donovan Zoi has kindled an idea in your head (Desolatem has a bank), that will net you 20 gold + 1 gpt. I give you 60 gold for cashrushes. So you can make 80 gold + 1 gpt if you follow DZ's line of thinking.

@ Governor tao: It's the Minister of Finance and Labor's task to assess the investments and the return-on-investments.
I do agree that citizens/officials who back their requests with arguments have a bigger chance of a bigger slice of the pie.

@ all: I am sorry we have so little funds. What we don't have, we can't spend. If you want more next turn, push your officials for a higher tax-slider-setting or increased revenues from trades.

Originally posted by tao
I assume you mean upgrade?

yes, I meant a rush for an upgrade. :)

@Rik - Here's a suggestion - make a budget thread in the government forum (in previous demogames, this was stickied), or, use the first/second post in this thread for the current budget information, and update it each time you accept a "budget request" (that being rushes, upgrades, trades involving gold and/or gpt, etc.).

Dear Minister,

I have posted instructions to sell the bank in Desolatem. I would like to use the funds generated from this sale, plus the 60g you offered earlier, to rush the temple in Almaren on turn five of the upcoming game play session. (The cost at that time should be 80g.)

I have also revised the build queues so that Sandy will recruit a worker next turn. Please let this worker stay in Norwich to irrigate the mines that we do not need. I have also queued up some settlers. This has been done to avoid losing shields by switching stright to workers. Any settlers raised can be resettled in other more productive cities.

Thank you,
donsig
Governor of Norwich

PS - I hope, etc. etc, ect. :D

Minister,

May I request something for the science slider? Well I would like the slider lowered to were we can research the fastest but get the most gold. Did that make sense? It is just a suggestion...

Thank you,

Minister Truckingpete
Trade and Tech.

"confuzzled"

I don't control the slider do I ? I thought the DP controlled it (now). Can someone please inform me quickly whether the slider is mine or not please ?

It's all you, Big Dog! :D

Add: i. Ministry of Finance and Labor
1. Is responsible for determining the slider settings
2. Is responsible for determining all uses of cash
3. Is responsible for all Fanatican worker unit activities, including captured workers

Thank you for your approval of the Wyfurd Courthouse. I can assure you that this is gold well spent, as it will allow us 8 turns of increase in production and commerce that we wouldn't have otherwise had. And after further review, I agree about the Granaries. Many of those cities will grow enough by just irrigating over a few mines.

I would like to point out that, like any other government official, the Minister of F&L should seek to know the people's will through appropriate means.

BTW this is the one area I was always a little unclear on in a previous life as Domestic Leader, back when the budget belonged to that office. Getting citizen input on everything would be tedious, getting no input has the danger of being foolish or even illegal depending on one's point of view. :eek:

My solution was to run a poll (how do you want cash requests handled) and the result chosen by the people was something like " anything up to 50% of the treasury and 50% of the gpt surplus was OK to spend without direct citizen involvement" -- too lazy to go into the archives and look it up myself, and YMMV ;)

DZ: thanks; I will add the Slider to my agenda.
DS: I will. It's too late for it for the upcoming TC, but you can be sure I'll post in the citizens thread.

Minister,

we had a lot of talk about finance, but what about the "labor component". There are a number of points which may be worth discussing at your discretion:
- Should/may the DP <shift>"A" worker? How many?
- Do we manually build roads on all tiles before using <shift>"A"?
- Do you recommend extensive forrest operations in the new provinces?
- (When) Should we join workers to cities?
- Guest workers (because we loose less worker turns)?
- Native workers (because we save the upkeep)?
- Should we cash-rush workers (Donovan Zoi's question)?
- Do you recommend razing all but 1 English cities to get more workers?

I would be very interested to hear about your views and plans.

- <shift>"A" - That is to AI the Minister of Finance and Labor. I am not a robot, nor an AI. <shift>"A" is not acceptable; ever.
- n/a
- No. Forests increase shields, which are lost to corruption anyway. Irrigation for the new provinces. For close to DR or Groton cities mining always works better than forests.
- Hard call. When we have growth-possibilities and some worker farms in the far south completed. But incidental joining is no problem. And of course when our workers are just standing there looking for work.
- Guest workers can be merged immediately, when their homeland is destroyed.
- Native workers are for working mainly and join later.
- Cashrushing of workers is very nice; if our funds allow it. That is not the case at this moment.
- No. We should keep 2 or 3 cities there. 1 for harbour (or airport) and 2 more as land fillers and lux-grabbers with some units in those cities to kick out any other new non-fanatikan cities. English workers first improve the tiles the cities can use and then are either to be shipped home to join cities, or join cities in Fanatikan-England iteself. I can't judge that now; perhaps after the TC.

Originally posted by Rik Meleet
- <shift>"A" - That is to AI the Minister of Finance and Labor. I am not a robot, nor an AI. <shift>"A" is not acceptable; ever. Fine with me. I was just thinking about turnchat duration when the DP has to manually contol 100+ workers per turn. Maybe some SHIFT-I (irrigate this city only) for corrupt cities?
- No. Forests increase shields, which are lost to corruption anyway. I was thinking about planting and chopping each tile once to get the 10 shields.

Forests also don't have an effect with rails, so any railed forest should be chopped (unless they're not in a city radius. They just look nice. ;)).

No cashrush requests or worker requests for the upcoming TC yet ?

If you do have requests; do not hesitate to post them here.

Rush all Nihilon's Workers and have them irrigate all nearby mines! :D

Sorry, I haven't looked at the save yet so I don't have specifics. I will get back to you tonite or tomorrow.

Also, none of my 5-6 workers from last t/c stuck around, although it looked like they were caught putting a mine in Mill Valley? :eek: I haven't confirmed this yet, but if this happened, we may need to determine some kind of radius structure so that mines are verboten beyond a certain point. What do you think?

@DZ: I think this unneccesarily complicates things for the DP. The preturn lasted 5 hours, no need to increase the DP's burden by asking such requests.
I've said before that the efforts of the corrupt provinces will be repaid; maybe not immediately, but they will in due time. National priorities always surpass regional interests. But you can count on it that I will keep instructing to improve the parts of the nation which are not yet very productive. Your province is part of that.

Originally posted by Rik Meleet
No cashrush requests or worker requests for the upcoming TC yet ?

If you do have requests; do not hesitate to post them here.

I respectfully resubmit our request to sell the bank in Desolatem and rush the temple in Almaren. (The cost of the rush is now 76g.) I know this was approved by your department previously, but the bank is still in Desolatem and the Almaren has no temple. And I'm not sure of the procedure to follow here. I will post in the president's thread and re-request this in my instructions.

Thanks,
donsig
Governor of Norwich

PS - please have the workers irrigate the mines in Norwich.

Minister,

with all due respect, could you give me some explanations on your tc actions:
Worker actions
- Plant forests on Tundra tiles.
- and most important: Railroad every tile within the 21 tiles of any Fanatican city
Use workers in groups; that way individual tiles are improves 'instantly'.

Why plant forrest? Mining is faster. Or do you want to order lumbering? But you don't say so. And if you want to plant forrest, it is much faster to build railroads before the planting. :confused:

Why do you want 21 tiles railroaded if cities can only work 6/12 tiles? :confused:

And never ever should more than 1 worker (for flat land) moved onto unimproved tiles!

Not to mention forests have NO effect with rails. The only effect is to stop a city from constantly starving.

Why plant forrest? Mining is faster. Or do you want to order lumbering? But you don't say so. And if you want to plant forrest, it is much faster to build railroads before the planting. :confused:

Why do you want 21 tiles railroaded if cities can only work 6/12 tiles? :confused:

And never ever should more than 1 worker (for flat land) moved onto unimproved tiles!Forests on Tundra. I was under the wrong impression railroaded forested tundra tiles gave 1 more shield than railroaded mined tundra tiles. That is not true. Either mining or foresting gives the same result. Mea Culpa.
Railroad before forests. Of course a tile needs to be railroaded before it's forested. The DP knows this. I want to give the DP as much room for maneuvering as she/he needs. I don't want to limit the DP's options by giving very strict instructions, nor do I want to state the obvious, unless the DP shows she/he needs that specific guidance in this. Suggesting the DP is not smart or experienced enough to know and do these things is an insult to the DP I don't want to make.
Railroaded tiles. There are 3 reasons for a fully railroaded continent. 1) workers can reach any tile immediately to clean up pollution. 2) Units can reach any tile immediately to attack invaders. 3) we are going to merge workers into cities someday to increase population, thus tiles used.
Move workers onto unimproved tiles. I do not agree. By moving multiple (but limited) workers onto unimproved flat tiles they can build a road in 1 turn; 1 sole worker can't (we are Industrious but not in Democracy). I definately didn't mean to move a huge worker group onto 1 unimproved (for instance plains) tile. Again; the DP knows this; why insult her by instructing the obvious ?

Thank you for your feedback. It is good to know citizens are concerned about the well-being of the nation and that they follow their leaders with the right amount of critisism, as they should.

P.S. Anyone for cashrushes or upgrades; besides the ones already posted ?

By moving multiple (but limited) workers onto unimproved flat tiles they can build a road in 1 turn; 1 sole worker can't (we are Industrious but not in Democracy).

We may not be in Democracy, but we do have Replacable Parts, we can therefore build a road on flat clear land in 1 turn with 1 native worker, but it will take 2 foreign workers to do the same job.

Minister,
I want to request 208g to hurry the cathedral in Kadessa. Building it is delayed because my tc instructions (build mines!) was ignored and I want to strengthen its culture and happiness.

Dear Minister,

Would you please authorize funds for the completion of the temple in Almaren. The current cost would be 128g. The great province of Norwich has sent many workers out to build up our contries infrastructure, and has also relocated some of our population to some of our industrial cities. Yet we have no funds to raise a simple temple in the great city of Almaren. Please buy us a temple!

donsig
governor of Norwich

PS - I see the CC against you has run into yet another snag. Oh well, maybe next term... ;)

@ Donsig: I absolutely do not see the need for a second temple in Almaren. Why do you want 2 temples in 1 city ?

@ tao: I see the usefulness of a Cathedral there; cultural pressure on Egyptian cities and cultural aid if we capture them. And the happyness is good. This rush is approved

Requesting an upgrade of 1 catapult (120g I believe).

Hey, I can't request upgrades at work. :p

@ Chieftess, the upgrade is Approved

BTW, here's something for you when you wake up. Buto (we've nearly run out of names, and pretty much not bothering with the next 50 cities. ;)) is building a harbor. This is over 300 gold, but will take 79 turns to complete. While a low priority (very low), I'm requesting a rush towards the end of the Egyptian war (if not then, at the start of the next turnchat).

Buto has 3 forest to cut. Get 30 shields from lumbering, hurry afterwards, and it will be less than half the cost.

We'll have Cleo to thank for the foresting operation. :) Yes, chop first, then rush.

Also, to Rik (Don't know if the DFL can adjust laborers... It's the department of labor too, afterall).

Vandopolis - Swap Mr. Roger's Neighborhood's NNW tile, and place a 2 shield worked tile from Vandopolis onto the 3spt tile, and it will get 50spt after corruption. (This would make a nice tank city).

** Christmas-bonus for the President **
If at turns 0, 2, 4 and 6 we have (over 2000 gold) or (in the 1500-2000 range with + 450 gpt), the DP can spend the cash on whatever she likes. Don't go below 1500 gold. Please remember: once we land on the other continent, we need TONS of cash to hurry barracks (156g), airport (636g), library(316g), and temple(236g); in total 1544g.

tao: that's why I only allowed it for 6 turns; the Military's estimate of the duration of the Egyptian conquest.

Minister!

The people built 5 hospitals in Audiac. I want to request from you 10 workers to be joined to the cities.

We currently have 97 native plus about the same number of guest workers. (Many of them busy in pretty pointless tasks.) I would leave it to you whether we join guests (less productivity loss) or natives (saving gpt). Once you (hopefully) give your agreement, I will make a detailed plan how many to join to which city for optimum benefit.

I also want to request 360g to hurry the market in Sharkeygrad in 2 turns (after the pop growth) to sustain wltkd. (We will build harbor afterwards for more food/pop).

Thank you for your kind consideration.

tao
Governor of Audiac

if needed my province can make many workers to be added to cities. at least I can do something with it

Assuming we research Computers this turnchat, I request a gradual upgrade of our infantry (40g per upgrade). We have 68 infantry total (2720g total).

Also, should we continue building tanks at the rate we're building them, note that a future upgrade of tanks (possibly around 4000g if we have 100 tanks in 20 turns) provided we research Synthetic Fibers in the turnchat after next. In total, 6,720g to be spaced evenly. I'd like upgrades to start en masse after the airport is rush in on of the future former Zulu cities. Thus, should we take New Swazi this coming turnchat, I'd like to request a rush of an airport and barracks, in that order.

I am requesting 20 native workers to be transported to England in order to build rails for our troops. 17 are on the English island (2 are on grasslands by Waco, but 2 foreign workers can build a build a road to let them go). These workers can head back to the mainland and take the 2 trans-- er, ferry services in Kadessa and Raven's Flight.


Now for another future rush request: I request the rush of a library and/or temple in New Swazi in order to culturally control the chokepoint.

Plans have changed slightly since the people don't want an alliance... Have New Swazi rush an airport ASAP (Even if it means full price). I don't want to waste any time when the Zulus could sign an alliances with Persia and the Aztecs.

Plans have changed slightly since the people don't want an alliance... Have New Swazi rush an airport ASAP (Even if it means full price). I don't want to waste any time when the Zulus could sign an alliances with Persia and the Aztecs.
If course, rush a worker, switch to airport, rush the airport.

I would like to rush 2 or 3 Airports in my province.

I will send you the cost and cities that need the rush later on (Reason being is that I am using the campus's computers ATM)

I would like to rush a Granary and Courthouse in Antilla. The granary will speed population growth and the courthouse will reduce corruption. Then the town can grow and mine mountains to get decent production. The granary can be rushed with 3 turns left (about 48 gold) and then the courthouse as soon as on its second turn (approx 304g) or as late as when the town reaches pop 4-5, when its production potential is higher.

Rushing 2 or 3 airports in CG's province would be utmost crazy. They shall just build them.

Antilla needs more attention:
I would join 4 workers to reach pop 6 and trigger wltkd (same effect as courthouse).
I would never build a granary, since there just is not enough food for decent growth, but build market and aqueduct and keep joining workers produced in the highly corrupted cities.
IF the granary is hurried, we can wait 6 turns to reduce cost, because growth will happen in 7 turns.

@Tao - I made a rush build request incase normal builds of the airports exceads 10 turns.

@Tao - I made a rush build request incase normal builds of the airports exceads 10 turns.
The why didn't you wait before posting until you know, that you don't need to hurry (and to post)?

@Tao - I dont know, I did not had the save when I was posting from the computer lab :p. Also, please dont place any angist on me.

@ tao:
- Worker-merging is instructed.
- There is not enough money to hurry a marketplace in Sharkeygrad, sorry.

@ BlackHole:
- I would really encourage the worker-build plan in your province. Thank you.

@ Chieftess:
- Upgrade Inf->Mech Inf. It is requested, but at a very very slow rate; we are short on cash and into negative gpt.
- Workers to England is instructed.
- Airport, temple and lib in Swazi are approved. Airport ASAP, temple and lib when there are shields in the box.

@ CivGeneral:
- Airports: In these times of scarce financial resources the airports you request are either easily hand-build or way too expensive due to corruption.

@ DaveShack:
- I suppose you meant Antillia, not Antilla.
- Cashrush of Granary is approved, in the way tao advises.
- Cashrush of Courthouse is approved, when it has shields in the box.
Make this city big !

Minister Rik Meleet

I have an apology to make. I have realised in writing the last turn chat summary and answering a question from Govenor donsig, that I did not follow your instructions correctly in the last turn chat. You instructed me to cut down forests near Buto on the ice island and cut down forest on non tundra tiles, which I did, unfortunately I also cut down forest on tundra tiles prior to railing and mining when you instructed me to plant forest on tundra tiles. I apologise for this mistake, I shall try to do better in future. Please let me know if you wish me to replace the mines I built with forest.

Furiey

I request that these cities switch to transports so that they can be rushed:

(I asked the governor to request these)
Transport in Russka (280g), and Jedina (196g).

For these 2, I have no clue who the governor is.
New Transvaal - 292g
Gloucester - 372g

I'd also like an airport rushed in Teotihaucan if we take it. (If the above transports aren't approved, then the invasion will be stalled, and the rush request may come next turnchat). I'd like for atleast the first 2 to be rushed, though).

Since I just noticed that computers will be researched, please save up enough money for Mech Inf upgrades.

2720 gold spread out over a series of turns (for 68 infantry). It's 40g per infantry upgrade. Perhaps 3 infantry per turn?

Minister,
I would like to request 2 cash rushes of transports in Russka (280g) and Jedina (196g).

It's a little too late. We already rushed them. ;)

lol, I didnt read the date of your post until just now. i take out my late request

Minister Rik Meleet

Do we still need to keep producing workers in our provinces?

I don't think we do. Just build barracks, and then Modern Armor. Stall the cities. :) (some could be rushed with extra cash)

To make it official:

I request the upgrade of all infantry and tanks. (the said amount is in one of the discussion threads). All tanks will be upgraded before infantry, just incase we have far more tanks to upgrade.

Also, I request the upgrade of 3 captured cannons (80g each).

I'd also like rails built NNW of Hlobane, and N2NW of Hlobane (there's a road there, which will help to get us in Persian lands quicker).