GGF4: French [Archive] - Civilization Fanatics' Forums

grahamiam

May 06, 2004, 09:33 PM

first, the 1475BC save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/GGF3_1475_BC.SAV)

Preflight check: looks good. Change paris to granary (8T). I wont be able to get a worker over to this area very soon to help so I’m not sure if it’ll by 100% ready by the time CB is up. MM for growth in Paris in 5T, granary in 10T. This will improve after growth as we’ll get 2 more spt and will finish in 8T anyways. Stop miner near Orleans and move him over to ivory to road. We’ll need the lux for the larger sized Paris. Warrior 1 will come home to protect CB#4. Keep temple build going @ Orleans for the happiness.

Inca and Iroquois IW, Inca up a lot of other stuff as well.

IBT: Inca boots W1 from Ollantaytambo into the direction of CB #4. Thanks! Those Inca town names are worse than the Aztecs

T1: 1700BC Move some warriors, Settler continues on his way

T2: 1675BC ditto, worker starts roading ivory

IBT: Lyons warrior -> warrior

T3: 1650BC New warrior heads due S from Lyons; found Rheims -> worker; Warrior2 attacks barb hut and dies without scratching the barb.

IBT: Inca building the Oracle

T4: 1625BC Move warriors. Inca now up WC and IW but neither will not trade either.

T5: 1600BC Paris grows, adjust lux slider, Math still in 3T

IBT: Inca take 25g, don’t worry Pacha, we’ll be back to collect soon enough

T6: 1575BC moving stuff, building stuff. MM Paris off woods and onto Wines to boost growth, granary still in 2T

IBT: Lyons warrior -> barracks (next player may want to change)

T7: 1550BC Math due in 1T, adjust sci slider to get an extra 6g

Research: math -> currency for now; Switch Orleans to SoZ; Paris granary -> settler

T8: 1525BC Don’t sell Math yet since Orleans is 55T from completing SoZ. I’ll wait till Orleans is making a couple more spt. Research is at -1gpt for now. Lyons warrior finds wines to the south. Switch research to IW since I’m not selling Math right now.

T9: 1500BC Warriors find barb camps to the East and West.

T10: 1475BC W6 finds many wines to the NW. Worker chops game forrest near Lyons to speed up barracks build.

Trades are available for Math but I held off due to SoZ slow build in Orleans. Can get Wheel and 175g from Inca or IW, WC, and 25g from Inca. I’ll let CB decide since he’s got the golden trade touch :)

MM'ing Paris right now won't speed anything up but can cause loss of gpt. settler should be done in 3T due to growth (hopefully the computer puts the new citz on the forrest). We need 1 more mined grass for Paris and it should be good to go as a 3-5 size settler factory. we'll need to do a warrior build now and again to let the pop catch up, preventing us from going under size 3 or 4. imho, it will work best between sizes 4 and 6.

Inca are pressing southerly pretty strong. imho, we need the next settler to go to the NE between Orleans and Rheims to stop thier flow.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/ggf3-1475bc.JPG

AntiTwelve

May 06, 2004, 10:33 PM

HOLY CR@P!!!!

You didn't even give me time to comment and THE WHOLE TEAM played?!?!?! Man you guys are lucky :D
You guessed right though, I can't play until this thing is resolved and at this rate I'll be free by Sunday afternoon-ish. You've all done an awesome job thus far... but PLZ save some for me! See yaz guys in a few.

Commander Bello

May 07, 2004, 03:01 AM

Originally posted by grahamiam
no, just you went in a direction different from the rest of the team. :) for instance, gogf had clearly established a min. research run on writing (2nd tier tech), then go for philosophy asap. you changed it after we were 30turns into it for a 1st tier tech that was readily available via trade, and which you then later traded for. another, you bailed on the granery prebuild in paris while a pottery trade was available, then stated later that paris should be a settler factory.

this is why i considered it curious :)

i have no problem with the current direction we're going right now (max towards math, granery in paris, inca in our sights for later). sounds good :)

Ok, please let my explain - just for the sake of our understanding about how the other one is thinking:
It wasn't my intention to spoil anything, or to carelessly changing anything someone before me has made his thoughts about already. Especially, since it is one of my main strategies as well to head for Philosophy (for the bonus tech AND the MoM <= which we should not miss!)
But, as I met the Iroquois during my turns and they were about to make contact with the Incans, I decided to get the max out of the possible tech trades, before they would do it.
So, I traded 2 tech of ours and 45 gold for 3 other techs (including Pottery for the granary at Paris and Ceremonial Burial, which I regard as being crucial in the early game for making people content and extending borders as well as city's productive areas).
I agree that it was a pity that I met the Iroquois the turn after the changes at Paris.
Anyway, since we didn't know about Pottery at that moment, the barracks pre-build wasn't that attractive. Furthermore, Paris would have lost the 3rd citizen's contribution due to the need to make him an entertainer.
In short, this have been my reasons for changing the path at that particular moment.
Again, this shall not be any start for a debate, just an attempt to explain my reasons.
-------

May I suggest that we change Gogf's location #6 one tile NE? This would give us access to the fresh water as well, but would save the forest for chopping. We would have two forest tiles (20 shields) available for a temple, and after extending the borders another two forests for a granary or a barracks.
The fact that town areas would be more overlapping than as by following Gogf's proposal isn't that bad, since that early in the game we won't be able to make use of all of those tiles, anyway. And Paris still has lots of good tiles to be used.

Next suggestion: As Gogf's map reveals, my assumption about the Ivories constituting a monopoly spot was wrong :(
There is another ivory 7 tiles NE of Lyons (next to the Barb camp). We shoud try to secure that Ivory as well. Nothing would be more frustrating as being outraced by the AI on SoZ.
Especially, as SoZ will make the Incan territory become ours in the future, thus giving us access to 2 additional luxuries. Then, we would have 4 native luxuries, which should be enough in the early game to cope with any unhappiness.

Just my two Euro-Cents

Commander Bello

May 07, 2004, 03:08 AM

Wow... while I'm writing, you're exploring the world :-)

Who's up?

[edit] Since cizzlewalk claims to be out until Sunday, I got it!

I will wait some time in case that I broke the chain - but currently, we are just 3 active players, aren't we?

[edit2] Re-read. Yep, we are 3 active ones and cizzlewalk unpatiently waiting ;)

So, I got it!

Commander Bello

May 07, 2004, 04:18 AM

Pre-flight checks:

Empire:
4 cities.:
Paris (2 h / 0 c / 2 uh); next pop in 1, Settler in 4, 1 warrior present
Orleans (1 h / 1 c / 0 uh); next pop in 6, SoZ in 53, 1 warrior present
Lyons (0 h / 2 c / 0 uh); next pop in 9, barracks in 11, 1 warrior present
Rheims (0 h / 1 c / 0 uh); next pop in 3, worker in 3, 1 warrior present

Unit count:
2 workers, 8 warriors

Income:
118 gold in treasury, -1 gpt, 0.9.1
Iron working in 10

Remarks:
What really thrills me is the speed of Incan expansion. In the same time in which we founded 2 cities, they founded 6 with one of those already being at cultural level #2 (Ollantaytambo)

Warning! Major changes ahead!
I would like to change research on Iron Working to something else. Explanation follows:
With an empire of currently 4 cities, we are not able to do a wonder race, build up a strong military (Swordmen), secure our cities, found new cities and do the rest of exploration.
The wonder race is a must for us, thus taking Orleans out of any other plans. Paris is going to spawn settlers and workers (who we bitterly need). The first settler available from Paris is to head to the Ivories between Orleans and Rheims, to avoid them being taken by the Incans. To prevent cultural flipping, that new town has to built a temple first, next to the mandatory warrior.
Rheims is struggling for everything and way off from being connected. By that, Lyons at the moment is the last and only city with some kind of flexibility.

Checking intellligence, I learn that we might trade:
Iroquois: Math <=> Iron Working, Warrior Code, 20 gold
Incans: Math, 70 gold <=> Writing
Totals up to Math & 50 gold <=> IW, WC, Writing, which seems proper to me.

Next I would change the SoZ@Orleans to temple (in 5 by next turn). That is to allow Orleans to size 6+ (under current conditions it would be stuck at 5). The SoZ costs 200 shields. Orleans currently produces net 3 and takes 20 turns for the 4th pop, if working on shield tiles. Only 2 grass tiles are currently available, which would have to be mined. To avoid the next pop there becoming a clown, we have to connect Orleans first. After that, I would irrigate (quicker than mining) the plains to the east and road them for the next city to be built. Then I would turn back to mine the grassland.

There is some kind of risk in this!
We don't know whether the Incans have access to Ivory in the black area north of our territory (currently they are going for Pyramids and Oracle, so they might easily switch)
Nevertheless, most probably they will get Math prior to us having finished SoZ, whatever route we take. So - under the assumption they would have / get Ivory - they would outrace us on SoZ, anyway.

I think, my proposal gives us the most benefit. Even if we would be outraced on SoZ, we could switch to MoM than (after the trades I would go for Phil).

I will wait some time for you to comment, otherwise I will go on this way.

[edit] Please take notice that we cannot check for potential Incan Ivory, since our own Ivory supply is not yet connected to our capital. So, this is unclear at the moment. But after having traded writing, we could build an embassy at the Incan capital to become more clear about this topic

Gogf

May 07, 2004, 05:37 AM

1. I think I may have accidentally turned cultural flips off, because they were off in my last game for a test, and I just assumed that in the default they were on :wallbash:. Sorry :(.
2. I think we need the miltary SoZ can give us. So, we should change it to a temple if, and only if the Incans do beat us to it.
3. If we change from iron working it's a ton of wasted research.

Now, these are all your choices, so it's up to you to decide.

@Team: remember, over the weekend we are playing and posting at GCF (http://s4.invisionfree.com/The_Gogf_Civ3_Forum/index.php), because CFC is down.

Commander Bello

May 07, 2004, 05:54 AM

@Gogf:

1. Things like that just happen.
2. The intermediate temple would enhance city radius, thus making it easier to irrigate the plains which will be quicker than mining the grass. Additionally, we will have 1 additional citizen there
3. We would loose our research, but gain additional techs and be up on the path => Philosophy again. As I tried to explain, the Incans will get Math anyway before we're able to finish on SoZ (except if they are going on Poly and get stuck there).

Bottom line:
At the moment, we are again at a crucial point with quite some potential - and some risks. We *could* loose on the SoZ, but if we would do so, we would have done in almost any other case as well. And if we do loose, we will almost sure get the MoM (in my eyes one of the most underrated wonders) as an replacement.
I just don't want to spoil the fun of this game for the team, that is why I'm sharing my thoughts right now. If the majority would plea for following the current path, it will be fine with me as well. Nevertheless, I would kindly ask to take my thoughts into consideration (see my posting above).
Currently still waiting for further comments.

[edit] And if we would loose on Soz against the Incans... well, they are our province, yet don't know about it, anyway :-)
In that case it would just be more necessary to get rid of them, wouldn't it?

grahamiam

May 07, 2004, 06:33 AM

CB, i agree with gogf. leave orleans as SoZ, just adjust the lux slider to make the unhappy citizens work for us. i agree to placing the next city to block the incas from taking the ivory. between orleans and rheams. this will also halt thier southern advancement.

we've only be researching IW for 2 turns or so, so i don't believe switching would kill us right now. however, i'd hold off on trading math till ivorys near orleans are secured (btw, that's why i did not trade it right away). writing is nice as it will get us on the way to some very useful tech's, kind of why I liked gogf's min research run from the very beginning.

@Cmdr Bello, the comments I made were because I really just wanted you to consulte with the team before making drastic decisions. this is a team game and we should all be involved. thanks for changing your approach :) it will make it more fun for all of us, including yourself, i promise :)

edit: regarding orleans, by adding a city to near the ivory and other at the knee of the river N of Paris, we will open up many more tiles for working. irrigate those plains (faster than mining grass), to get the shields and pop up. then, switch to a mined hill when convenient. imho, this should work well.

Gogf

May 07, 2004, 01:58 PM

Yeah, I agree.

Gogf

May 10, 2004, 02:47 PM

For those who don't browse GCF, Commander Bello posted the turns, and I got it ;).

Commander Bello

May 12, 2004, 08:14 AM

Please be informed, that I will be off till Saturday, 15th of May, appr. 12:00 GMT +1

grahamiam

May 12, 2004, 12:59 PM

re: trading: maybe we can somehow get writing by trading math and then start reseaching lit or MM. i don't think the iroquios are too far ahead but the inca are definitely a concern. to deal with them we will need more cities producing more units than what we have now. maybe we gain techs via the sword.

barbs seem to be a common annoyance around us so maybe we can use them to our advantage and get some of our swords upgraded to elites. this means upgrading regular warriors to swords (something i hate to do) but, at this point, I don't see much choice. we don't have a barracks anywhere producing vet warriors for upgrade.

Commander Bello

May 12, 2004, 01:42 PM

We'd need a barracks for the upgrading as well, wouldn't we?
Anyway, we have to claim that iron ressource west of Orleans, that's for sure. Until we've done so, we should pre-built some warriors to get quick, cheap units. Upgrading can be done with the money, we have (and hopefully, we will get some more at the next turns). Warrior => sword will cost us 60 g / each, so we will just be able to transform 2 or 3 of them.
That is, why I was going for warrior code to give us access to bowman and to hunt for BarbCamps.

grahamiam

May 12, 2004, 01:50 PM

yes, well, next settler due in 2T, right? city should claim the iron as you suggested. it'll be near paris so will be low in corruption and could build a barracks. lyons(? city SE of Paris) is also a good canidate for barracks due to all the trees around. chop 1 forrest to help hurry the barracks, then get the pop up to around 5 so we can make 5-7spt (vet sword in 5 or 6 turns, or an archer in 3 or 4).

need to know if horses are around also so the wheel should be a target in our next trade. chariots to horsemen is a cheap upgrade as well.

edit:
Lyons calc as follows:
1 City Center: 2fpt, 1spt
3 irrigated river plains: 6fpt (total), and 3spt(total)
1 forrest game: 2fpt, 2spt
1 forrests: 1fpt, 2spt

totals at size 5: 11fpt (+1fpt), 8spt (probably -1 or -2 for corruption, not good at figuring that out)

this city definitely should have a barracks.

Commander Bello

May 12, 2004, 02:02 PM

I agree on Lyons building a barracks as soon as possible after we got iron. Until then, they should build warriors / archers. I am just unsure about the chopping of the Game Forest there. This seems to be a good tile, as it is right now, giving us both, 2f and 2s (and 2g).
About "Iron Village", I would suggest to build it on top of the hills, since there are just plains around, which we will need for growth.
We shouldn't forget about expanding our future powerhouse, either (is it Rheims??? - city at the mountain chain), which will require us to build a temple there for getting access to the bonus tiles. Further, it opens the path for a good harbor town some 5 or 6 tiles to the NE, IIRC (grass, hills, wheat).
Maybe, that Wheel can be got via trading.
Ah.. .there is just so much to do :-)
Interesting turns for gogf, I'd say....

grahamiam

May 12, 2004, 02:06 PM

Gogf

May 12, 2004, 02:16 PM

Gr.. I forgot it was my turn, sorry :(. I'll play later today though :).

Commander Bello

May 12, 2004, 02:30 PM

ok CB, i edited my post. we have 3 forrests at Lyons so one of the others could be chopped and it should do well. as far as the iron city goes, i prefer the river (i always do, as one high level gotm player once told me "a river is a river is a river") but will leave it up to Gogf to decide.

Is there a river? Or do you refer to the Orleans River? Orleans might need the fertile tiles later on to get access to mines on the mountains there.

For a conquest game, we have to keep in mind that we will have a lot of small, undeveloped / unhappy cities later on, so we should develop our core to powerhouses, when and where ever we can.

Another thought, which just came to my mind: Depending on our progress on the SoZ, the Wheel might loose importance, as we may expect to get Ancient Cavalry. TW we may collect later, either by trading or by peace negotiations. We should concentrate on not loosing to much speed in the tech race towards Philosophy, Literature, Map Making, I would propose.

[edit] for close cities, I would prefer the location #2, I once suggested for towns (somewhere N of Lyons, at a river as well). There are lots of forests for chopping, and plains, which are not so good for high population, so close distances are tolerable in the beginning. Some compromises have to be made...
But again, I don't look at the map, at the moment. So, it is up for Gogf's final decision.

grahamiam

May 12, 2004, 02:39 PM

Is there a river? Or do you refer to the Orleans River? Orleans might need the fertile tiles later on to get access to mines on the mountains there.
the river that goes from the mountain north of Paris. It goes NW 2 tiles then does a 90 degree bend and goes NE towards Orleans. I was talking about that "knee" which is the plain tile on the river (not your favorite spot, i realize). it will be close enough to claim the iron, will not require an aqueduct, and will allow us to work more river tiles. but, as you stated, the location is up to Gogf :)

AntiTwelve

May 13, 2004, 09:03 PM

I regret to inform the team that I am pulling out of the SG. Even though I never really got any turns in, I still just want everyone to know that you did a better job in my absense :thumbsup: . Good luck w/ the game Gogf and maybe I'll be back in time for GGF5 (yes, I do know this is number 3).

@Gogf About the Years of Rice and Salt units, you can postpone working on them if you've started. Sorry, but I'm going to need a lot more time to figure out just what is needed (and all have plenty of time when all I can do is use Word on the comp :sad: ). Thanks for the help anyways, I'll get back to you as soon as I can get on again!

Gogf

May 13, 2004, 09:14 PM

:cry: Bye Cizzlewalk. I actually had, started working on it, but I thought it was "Rise of Salt" :lol:. I guess I need to be more awake when I read by PMs ;). Does this mean you are also leaving CZ2?

This reminds me about this game. Sorry, I had completely forgotten... again. I'm really sorry, I've had a lot on my plate lately, including a thesis for history. I can play this weekend, I promise though.

grahamiam

May 13, 2004, 11:58 PM

take your time. thesis' are much more important and i'm in no hurry.

Commander Bello

May 14, 2004, 02:33 PM

Sorry to read this, Cizzlewalk and good luck to whatever occupies now!

To the others: who's up now?

grahamiam

May 14, 2004, 08:56 PM

gogf is up and will try to fit it in this weekend. i think we should advertise cizzlewalk's slot so we don't end up with too many turns per person. if it's ok for gogf, i can add a post to the SG signup sticky thread.

Gogf

May 14, 2004, 09:42 PM

Sure.

(These characters are needed to get past the 10 character minimum)

grahamiam

May 14, 2004, 10:11 PM

ok, will do

Commander Bello

May 15, 2004, 04:32 AM

Please be informed that I will available this weekend, on Wednesday / Thursday, and next weekend again.

Commander Bello

May 16, 2004, 05:47 AM

Grahamiam, I'd suggest you prepare to take the save, if Gogf doesn't post his turns today....

[edit] Grahamiam, I think it's up to you to proceed.

Gogf

May 16, 2004, 04:43 PM

Skip me :(. I had to something this weekend, and just found out my thesis is due tommorow :eek:! I don't have time to play, I'm sorry. But, school lets out soon, so I think this is our last thesis :).

grahamiam

May 16, 2004, 07:26 PM

ok, i got it. will play and post by Tuesday night (probably tonight, but we'll see). this should be alright for Cmdr Bello since he won't be able to pick it up till Wed's, right?

Commander Bello

May 16, 2004, 08:12 PM

right (another right for the 10 chars)

grahamiam

May 17, 2004, 09:18 PM

first, the 975BC save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/GGF3_975_BC.SAV)

Preflight check: MM Paris off forrest onto wine hill (2T settler, 2T growth vs 2T, 3T); 2 barb horsemen are outside Lyons, how nice :) ; MM sci slider from 100% to 90% so we get +2gpt vs -1gpt, WC still in 5T.

Trades: Inca: Writing for Math + 69g; Inca now up MM, the wheel, WC, and Myst. Iroquois: WC & 31g for Writing

Set research @ 100% for Philosophy.

IBT: Lyons warrior -> barracks

T1: 1200BC New warrior goes to Paris for MP duty; Warrior6 explores

IBT: Paris settler -> warrior; Lyons warrior ->warrior

T2: 1175BC settler & war5 move out to claim iron. MM paris off forrest and onto wines.

IBT: Rheims worker -> temple; a barb warrior pops out of the fog to threaten the Tours workers.

T3: 1150BC settler/warrior pair continue on their way. Move warriors out of Orleans and Tours to cover workers

T4: 1125BC settler/warrior pair reaches destination

IBT: Barb warrior dies attacking across river and promotes out warrior to vet. The 2 barb horses move out from near Lyons. Paris warrior -> settler

T5: 1100BC Found Marseilles -> worker; Amazingly, Inca still do not have Phil due in 5T for us.

T6: 1075BC Chop completed outside Rheims to help temple along. MM Paris off mined grass and onto forrest.

IBT: Tours warrior -> warrior

T7: 1050BC workers working.

IBT: Maya complete Oracle

T8: 1025BC workers work on stuff
IBT: Unbelievable, we get Philosphy 1st [dance]; Take currency as our free tech! Lyons barracks -> archer

Research CoL @ 100%

An Inca settler/spear pair is moving past Rheims to claim all those BG’s and the fish :(

T9: 1000BC worker begins irrigating plain NW of Marseilles. Theres a pair of barb horses really annoying me on the mountain between Paris/Orleans/Marseilles.

Trade: Inca: Myst, Wheel, 87g for Philo. We have horses to the east and west.

IBT: Paris: settler -> warrior (to get pop up to 4 again and we can send 1 with the settler)

T10: 975BC I’ll leave the settler in Paris for CB to decide in regards to placement. Warrior9 is going to Marseilles. I was going to rotate the warrior out of Marseilles to cover the worker in case a barb horse pops out of the fog.

SoZ due in 16T

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/ggf3-975bc.JPG

Commander Bello

May 20, 2004, 07:02 AM

Got the save....

Commander Bello

May 20, 2004, 08:55 AM

[edit]oops... wrong button... this posting is subject to editing right now...

pre-flight checks
geostrategic and tactical position
Our empire is located south of the northern tropic. We know about two other nations, the Inca and the Iroquois. Our expansion has lead mostly to the north, with some exploration done to the west and east. About the southern part of our continent, we almost know nothing.
The Incans seem to extend into our direction, about the Iroquois we lack knowledge.
3 Barbs located next to Orleans threaten our luxury lines from and towards Orleans. Cutting them would cripple max town size to 4.
We are currently running a deficit of -2 for Code of Laws in 11.
Cities
We have 6 cities from size 1 to size 4.
Unit count:
1 settler, 5 workers, 12 warriors. Our military is weak in numbers and quality.
current projects
We are in the race for SoZ (16t)
1 settler is waiting at Paris for orders
Things to change
Marseilles: worker(5) to warrior(5). Reason: there is a worker irrigating plains (2t) next to Marseilles. Since Marseilles will need 15 turns under the current conditions to grow to size 2, this is not much senseful. Changing the worker's tasks will waste some of his turns, on the other hand. The next workers will be produced at Orleans, after finishing the SoZ (13t) there, as Orleans will have it's maximum useful population (5) then.
Paris: warrior(2) to settler(8). Paris (size 4 in 1) is our settler factory. It will grow to size 5 in 6 turns, and settler will be available then as well. Escorts should be produced by the other cities, to allow for maximum settler production.
Settler combo @Paris => "sugar creek"-location. Located at river knee, with lots of forests for chopping.
Warrior12 @Lyons => Paris.
Plans:
The second next town should claim the horses in the east. After that, a settlement chain should try to reach the gems in the north, giving us access to the additional wines and the iron on the way, and at least one harbor.

--- will continue after barbecue :beer: ----

grahamiam

May 20, 2004, 11:35 AM

nice changes :) good luck!

Commander Bello

May 20, 2004, 12:33 PM

nice changes :) good luck!

Good luck for the barbecue? :D

.... :band: [party] :sheep:

grahamiam

May 20, 2004, 12:36 PM

from the news...

German Barbeque Incident

By Phil Hudson

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last week, a German man was rushed to hospital after a serious accident at a barbeque. The unfortunate incident occurred when he was cooking the final sausage for a guest.

Due to the high workload of the staff at the hospital, he was not seen by a doctor until yesterday. The doctor has now made an analysis on his condition, stating that he's taken a "burn for the wurst".

:lol:

Commander Bello

May 20, 2004, 04:11 PM

<pressing return>
IBT
Barb attacks Orleans, gets killed
Incans withdraw from our territory
Tours: Warrior13 > temple for border expansion

Turn 1 (950bc)
Irrigation at Tours completed, roads.
Workers @Rheims: mining
Warrior6: explores
vetWarrior1 <> Warrior10 @Orleans
Warrior13 => Rheims
MM'd Paris for pop/settler in 4

Income adjusted to +2/CoL in 11 (no need to run deficits on the way to Republic. This is a conquests game, so our government will be Monarchy)

Unit count:
1 settler (1), 5 workers (0), 13 warriors (1 archer)
Production:
1 Archer, 1 Warrior, 1 Settler, 2 temples, SoZ
Income:
164 (+2); (1.9.0)

<pressing return>
IBT
Barb Horses approach worker at Marseilles
Barb Horses leave at Orleans, hunting for settler combo

Turn2 (925bc)
Worker3 => Marseilles
Warrior1 => Marseilles
Warrior9: fortifies @Orleans
Workers @Tour => forests for chopping
Warrior13 => Rheims, fortifies
Settler combo => S to mountains
Warrior12: fortifies @Paris
Warrior6: explores

<pressing return>
IBT
Barb Horses attack Marseilles, killing Warrior3, loosing 1 Horse
Incans still moving towards main Incan territory.
Lyons: Archer1 > Archer
Barb Horses stay at mountains east of Paris

Turn 3 (900bc)
Archer1 joins settler combo in forests N of Lyons
Warrior5: counter attack on redlined BarbHorse, killing it
Worker3: leaving Marseilles S
Worker1/5: finish mining at Rheims (temple in 13), start irrigation next to river
Warrior6: W

Unit count:
1 settler (1), 5 workers (0), 12 warriors (1 archer)
Production:
1 Archer, 1 Warrior, 1 Settler, 2 temples, SoZ
Income:
168 (+2); (1.9.0)

<pressing return>
IBT
Archer1 kills Barbhorses, promoted to yellow elite
Incans found Arequipa at "our" harbor town location

Turn4 (875bc)
Archer1 => Paris
Settler combo => Sugar Creek
Worker3: roading S of Marseilles (road connection to Paris)
Warrior5 => Marseilles
Worker2/4: chopping for temple at Tours
Warrior6: W

Build embassy in Incan capitol of Cuzco: building Sword. Incans have silk(3) and iron(1). Incans starting on Swords means a risk to us. We have to make some money and to go for a better government quickly.
Build embassy in Iroquois capitol of Salamanca: building settler. Iroquois have no ressources

Polite Incans(343g, Map Making, Horseback Riding, Polytheism) would sell Polytheism & 130gold (alternatively Map Making & 115g)for Currency. Agreed on Poly&gold.
Incans are going for Temple of Artemis.

Polite Iroquois(87gold) will give 87 gold for Mathematics. (They have no wonders under construction) Agreed.

Unit count:
1 settler (1), 5 workers (0), 12 warriors (1 archer)
Production:
1 Archer, 1 Warrior, 1 Settler, 2 temples, SoZ
Income:
289 (-2); (0.10.0); CoL in 7

<pressing return>
Incan warriors approach our borders at Rheims.
Paris: Settler > Settler
Marseilles: Warrior14 (fortifies)> Spear
Iroquois start on SoZ!!! :eek: But there is no indication that they could finalize it prior to Orleans. :p

Turn5 (850bc)
Worker1/5 join Worker2/4 on forests for chopping.
Warrior6: explores
Settler combo from Paris => horse grounds in the east

Unit count:
2 settler (1), 5 workers (0), 13 warriors, 1 archer(1)
Production:
1 Archer, 1 Spear, 1 Settler, 2 temples, SoZ
Income:
287 (-2); (0.10.0); CoL in 6

---- to be continued ----

Commander Bello

May 21, 2004, 03:06 AM

<pressing return>
IBT
Forests chopped @Tours
Incan Warriors move towards Arequipa, avoiding to enter our territory

Turn 6 (825bc)
Archer1 => Marseilles
Warrior14 => Paris
Worker1/2: roading @Tours
Worker4/5 => Orleans
Warrior6: explores, spotting village
Settler combo => Lyons
Worker3: S for closing roads between Paris and Marseilles

Unit count:
2 settler (1), 5 workers (0), 13 warriors, 1 archer(1)
Production:
1 Archer, 1 Spear, 1 Settler, 2 temples, SoZ(10)
Income:
285 (-2); (0.10.0); CoL in 5

Thoughts:
In a single player game, I would change Paris (size3/settler in 7) to temple > Mausoleum, now. The Mausoleum has the charme to be cheap and add 3 content citizens, thus making the town it is located in an early powerhouse.
Any comment would be welcome.

Commander Bello

May 21, 2004, 04:28 AM

The Save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55267&stc=1)

<pressing return>
IBT
Incans declared war on Iroquois! :p This should drastically reduce the pressure on us - at least for the moment. As we can expect the Incans to be successful, in the long run this will make them more powerful, though :(
Arequipa bound Incans head N again
Lyons: Archer2 > Warrior (for mp-duty)
Barb Horse shows up at riverbanks near Tours.

Turn 7 (800bc)
Archer2 => Paris
Orleans reached maximum size(5), MM'd to SoZ in 7
Worker4/5 => Orleans hills for mining
Worker1/2 => Tours for protection
Chartres founded at Sugar Creek: Spear
Settler combo => horse grounds
Warrior6: spawns 3 Barbs

Unit count:
2 settler (1), 5 workers (0), 13 warriors, 1 archer(1)
Production:
1 Archer, 1 Spear, 1 Settler, 2 temples, SoZ(10)
Income:
285 (-2); (0.10.0); CoL in 5
Wars ongoing:
Incans <> Iroqouis

<pressing return>
IBT
Warrior6 kills 1 Barb
BarbHorse invades our territory @Tours, 2nd BarbHorse shows up at river banks

Turn 8 (775bc)
Settler combo => horse grounds
Warrior6 N for river protection and recovery
Worker1/2: stay at Tours due to Barb threat
Archer1 => Hills NW of Marseilles for Barb spotting - Barb camp seems to be in the last black spot
MM'd Paris for growth in 3, settler in 4. Still being unsure about proposed change to MoM there

<pressing return>
IBT
Incans declared war on Iroquois! :p This should drastically reduce the pressure on us - at least for the moment. As we can expect the Incans to be successful, in the long run this will make them more powerful, though :(
Arequipa bound Incans head N again
Lyons: Archer2 > Warrior (for mp-duty)
Barb Horse shows up at riverbanks near Tours.

Turn 7 (800bc)
Archer2 => Paris
Orleans reached maximum size(5), MM'd to SoZ in 7
Worker4/5 => Orleans hills for mining
Worker1/2 => Tours for protection
Chartres founded at Sugar Creek: Spear
Settler combo => horse grounds
Warrior6: spawns 3 Barbs

Unit count:
1 settler (1), 5 workers (0), 13 warriors, 2 archers (0)
Production:
1 Warrior, 2 Spears, 1 Settler, 2 temples, SoZ(6)
Income:
281 (-2); (0.10.0); CoL in 2
Wars ongoing:
Incans <> Iroqouis

<pressing return>
IBT
Warrior6 spots Incan Sword successfully defending against 4 unrecognized attackers
Incan Chasqui Scout at Vitcos (next to Tours)
BarbWarrior approaches Lyons suburbs
BarbHorses @Tours fortifiy

Turn 9(750 bc)
Lyons: Warrior15 > Archer (MM'd for archer in 3)
Archer2 @Paris => Orleans
Archer1 @Marseilles => hills NW, spots BarbCamp
Warrior15 kills Barb
Worker3 closes road connection Marseilles - Paris (very crowded during holiday seasons :lol: ) and => Lyons to close connection Paris-Lyons - Chartres
vetWarrior from Rheims attacks BarbHorse @Tours, gets killed :(
Workers1/2 still nailed down at Tours due to Barb threat
Warrior6: N, but spots nobody

MM'd Orleans for SoZ in 4

<pressing return>
IBT
Incans declared war on Iroquois! :p This should drastically reduce the pressure on us - at least for the moment. As we can expect the Incans to be successful, in the long run this will make them more powerful, though :(
Arequipa bound Incans head N again
Lyons: Archer2 > Warrior (for mp-duty)
Barb Horse shows up at riverbanks near Tours.

Turn 7 (800bc)
Archer2 => Paris
Orleans reached maximum size(5), MM'd to SoZ in 7
Worker4/5 => Orleans hills for mining
Worker1/2 => Tours for protection
Chartres founded at Sugar Creek: Spear
Settler combo => horse grounds
Warrior6: spawns 3 Barbs

Unit count:
1 settler (1), 5 workers (0), 13 warriors, 2 archers(0)
Production:
1 Archer, 2 Spears, 1 Settler, 2 temples, SoZ(4)
Income:
279 (-2); (0.10.0); CoL in 1
Wars ongoing:
Incans <> Iroqouis

<pressing return>
IBT
Chasqi Scout kills red BarbHorse in our territory, withdraws.
Code of Laws > Monarchy in 23 (Literature makes no sense with just 2 other nations known, GL has to be captured later; Republic would last 27, Map Making makes no sense without any harbor, Horse riding we might trade later, Construction doesn't benefit us yet, either) We have to get an better government ASAP (lots of money, but can't make good use of it)

Turn 10(730bc)
Archer1 retreats to Marseilles for recovery
Warrior 15 retreats to Lyons for recovery
Worker3 arrives at Game Forest near Lyons. Proposed road building from there: north towards Chartres (for next player)
Settler combo arrives at Horse City location! Don't move them any further, they have access to horses and wheat there!
Warrior6: N, spotting silks, Barb Camp and another new Incan town
Worker1: tries to escape from Tours, escorted by 1 Warrior
Worker2: waits for success of Worker1

Unit count:
1 settler (1), 5 workers (0), 13 warriors, 2 archers(0)
Production:
1 Archer, 2 Spears, 1 Settler, 2 temples, SoZ(3)
Income:
277 (-2); (0.10.0); Mon in 22
Wars ongoing:
Incans <> Iroqouis

End of my turns

Thoughts:
Still, we should discuss about Paris to switch to temple > MoM. As Orleans will have to race for barracks > temple first and already is approaching max citizen limits (even with lux slider), it would make more sense to build a settler there than to wait for Orleans to become able to build MoM.
Lyons is approaching max citizens limits as well, so there could be built a settler as well.
MoM at Paris would allow for a powerhouse in the future, since Paris has everything, it needs for that: 3 forests for temple rushing, rivers for unlimited growth, hills for later production (under monarchy), grassland for speedy growth....
I would like that to be discussed before the next player allows the settler to be built over there.
Furthermore, after finishing SoZ at Orleans, the forests there should be used to rush barracks > temple (barracks needed for the ACs, temple is self-explanatory)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55268&stc=1
The map: (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55268&stc=1)

hmmm.. map doesn't show up??? :confused:

grahamiam

May 21, 2004, 06:38 AM

nice set Cmdr Bello. :goodjob:

how many turns will the MoM take? can Lyons/Orleans/Sugar town replace the lost settler production? MoM is great but we only have 7 towns (8 next turn) and i'd hate to halt that. imho, we'll need 12-15 before we're strong enough to go after the inca. however, if other cities can make up the settler production, then let's go for it. we need to expand west as well to secure the lands to our south. maybe a town near the lake to the W and couple more extending our borders to the wine cluster to the NW.

one question, why are we building spears? imho, build warriors, connect iron and upgrade to swords, then disconnect and build more warriors. one reason i like building barracks is so that we have vet warriors to upgrade. imho, a sword is much more valuable than a spear in the AA. in the MA, i tend to only build knights and cav so maybe you like to have pikes and muskets to hold ground?

Commander Bello

May 21, 2004, 07:00 AM

Thx, Grahamyouare :-P

MoM will cost 200 shields. Since Paris would need a temple (almost available if settler would be changed and forests would be chopped), it would have to start on it all over. Since there is no waste at Paris and we should be able to reach size 6 (7 with lux slider), I assume a production time of appr. 30 turns. This would go along with Monarchy, so we could finish MoM, and then switch government.
Doing so, we would loose appr. 5 settlers from Paris. OTOH, some of our current towns would run into their citizen limit, they could make up for some of the lost settlers. I'd guess that we would gain 3 or 4 settlers from those towns.
Nevertheless, the boost offered by MoM is enormous. That is, why I would plea for going for it. Especially, taking into consideration that the Incan campaign will require lots of units.
About the spears: they are meant as defensive garrison for our border cities later on. Depending on how the Incan-Iroqouis war turns, we might expect an Incan assault in the future. Nothing could be worse than loosing our cities on the first attack.
Optionally, the spears might be changed to archers, if the need would arise.
About your estimation how many cities we'd need for the Incans, I agree with you, as well as about the course of the next towns to be founded.
One remark about the upgrade procedure: As long as you don't have a very strong economy, it has been my experience that upgrading does work only for very few units and should be done only in emergency situations. Most times, I've found it more useful to rush improvements with money and to make use of the enhanced production capability of bigger towns. But, of course, this is very much dependant on the current tactical situation.
In the MA, strong defenders are needed, so the answer to your question is yes, I like pikes and muskets. Of course, a good balance has to be found between attackers and defenders, and I tend to have more attackers than defenders (let's say a ratio of 6:4 or 7:3 - again depending on the situation). One should never forget, that it takes quite some time to secure the recently conquered territory/cities. That can't be done just with attackers, even if they have the same defensive values as a defending unit. But the attackers have to stay mobile which is contradictory to using them for defense purposes....

grahamiam

May 21, 2004, 12:12 PM

re: MoM, i need to think about that more. i don't think this is a wonder building type game but i do recognize the value of that wonder. right now we only have 2 lux nearby, with a 3rd to the far NW, right?

re: economy: we have currency so we can build some markets now to help. i'm not suggesting switch everything to build them now, but we should put them on the list. and i think lit is valuable, not for the GLib but for the libraries themselves. we have a number of cities on rivers so we should be able to research fairly quickly thru the MA if we build enough.

re: military: i see that our approach is very different. i do not bother with "flat foots" (ie, pikes, muskets) except for swords and, later, infantry. during the AA, i usually build around 8 to 15 horses which then upgrade to knights. to me, the knight is just as good at defending as a pike plus moves 2x as fast and attacks 4x better. my ratio is closer to 10 or 20:1. i tend to hold current gains by taking more territory, quelling resistors with hurt units and allowing the healed ones to move on if forces are sufficient. the further the new cities are from the front, the easier they are to hold :) usually, i like to hit with overwhelming force (say 12-15 swords + 3-5 horses in the AA, 15-20+ knights in the MA with sword support or MDI upgrades) and then keep building fast units while attacking to replace losses. the "flat-foots" can follow behind, providing some defense in hot spots or quelling resistance in others.
the only exception to this in my approach is for amphibious landings. i will take at least 2 defensive units (preferable muskets during the MA) to hold the ground on the 1st turn at landing. after that, the defensive units try to keep up as best they can.

well, the thing you got to love about civ is that there are many solutions to the same problem. i'm sure both your and my approach will achieve the same goals. i've developed my current approach in an effort to achieve domination victories as quickly as possible (gotm jason score multipliers favor fast finishes) and have had a good bit of success. based on that, my opinion of "defender" units tends to be pretty low.

final comment: you noted that the inca and iroquois are at war. if it lasts for a while, we may be able to take advantage of it and hit the local inca cities, quickly taking 3 or 4 and then signing a quick peace. 277g = how many warrior -> sword upgrades? maybe with 7-10 swords and 2 or 3 A.C.'s, we can do this.

Commander Bello

May 22, 2004, 02:16 AM

I agree about that this is *NOT* a wonder building game. I am not much interested in wonders, either, just in the effects of some of them. And here, I think that the MoM is one of the most underrated early wonders. I brought up the suggestion to think about it since Paris' location is almost perfect for MoM (no waste, river, grass, hills, mountains..). Furthermore we have to take into consideration that it will take quite some time to get us access to the third luxury in the north, if we would manage to get it at all.

I agree about the libs as well, although we have to take into consideration that our little empire is limited in regards to capacity: We just cannot build libs AND markets AND units. Not now. But, all of them have to be on our list.

About the flat foods (nice expression, btw): Here indeed our approaches seem to be different, what doesn't mean that one is more valuable than the other. I agree to the value of fast-moving attackers and for that reason, make only small use of swords and MIs, whom I will use just for counter attacks on redlined and stacked enemy units next to my cities. For attack, I prefer horses, knights and cavalry. Sometimes I add a stack or two of arty-type units, escorted by defenders. Why I prefer to have some "real" defenders is just, because most times they are cheaper than fast attackers and because a garrison has to be a garrison - a garrison is very rarely to be moved. The "back and forth" approach of fast units works.... if it works. This means, there are quite some circumstances needed for that approach. The attackers have to have the chance to go to the front or back for recovery in one turn. Sometimes, this will not work. And then, you need more of the attackers to attack AND to quell resistance and perform military police duties, which means that you're using more shields for the same task.
I've just learned that a good mixture of the military makes for successful campaigns, but this may be discussed based on the situation.

About upgrading: each warrior > sword upgrade will cost us (30-10)*3 gold, so with 277 gold we would just be able to upgrade 4 warriors, thus spending almost our complete treasury, losing the chance to rush needed improvements as temples, markets, libs, barracks...

But again, all of this may and should be discussed, based on the current situation...

grahamiam

May 22, 2004, 07:47 AM

thanks for the upgrade calc. i didn't know what it was and it's nice to see that it's very straight forward :)
ok, guess gogf is up!

re: MoM... temple + MoM = 260 shields ~ 8 settlers. this is why i'm hedging. imho, we need those 8 towns very badly. our early growth was very stunted so i feel this compelling need to make up for it. with other cities chipping in the estimate 3-4 settler over that time, we will be a very strong empire, able to take over this continent, research faster than anybody, and build units faster than anybody. all those cities plus SoZ will make us very tough and will give us the flexibility to build markets, libraries, units, wonders, etc. just my $.02

Commander Bello

May 22, 2004, 08:25 AM

Again, I agree with you. As you see, I understand and share your opinion to quite some degree.
We need cities. That is, why I didn't switch to MoM.

Nevertheless, as a last input for Gogf's final and wise decision, MoM will be like an early cathedral, with the added benefit of contributing to our treasury later. So, the added value of it would be culture (makes negotiations with other civs easier) and gold, which (as far as I'm not mistaken) adds to the net(!!).

But, again, as I see the need for cities as well, I won't have any bad feelings if Gogf's going for the settler.

grahamiam

May 22, 2004, 09:03 AM

maybe the HG would suit us better in this situation. 3 contents + 1 content in all other cities for the price of 100 more shields. it would be like getting another luxury resource but Paris would probably have to wait till the expanding phase is done to build it.
in retrospect, looking at the map, it's a shame Lyons wasn't placed N of the game. with the irr game and sugar, it would have been able to produce +5fpt, thus another settler factory which would have freed-up Paris for the MoM. well, hindsight is always perfect so no need to dwell :)

grahamiam

May 23, 2004, 09:42 PM

gogf is up!

Gogf

May 24, 2004, 05:18 AM

Got it.

(Too few characters :()

Commander Bello

May 25, 2004, 04:42 AM

Everything's allright with you, Gogf?

jb1964

May 25, 2004, 03:14 PM

Gogf, if you're still looking for a replacement I would like to join. Please drop me a message one way or the other.

Regards,

jb

grahamiam

May 25, 2004, 05:03 PM

we're looking :)

jb1964

May 26, 2004, 10:31 AM

Ok, are ya'll running C3C 1.15b or 1.22?

I'm not sure if this is thread that switched in the middle and it's easier just to ask than to search. :D

BTW, why does there seem to be some aversion to installing the 1.22 patch?

jb

grahamiam

May 26, 2004, 10:37 AM

we are using 1.15b. the aversion to 1.22f comes from the fact many people are already in SG's using 1.15b.
in order to expand my horizons :) , i've done a dual installation. you may want to consider it.
if it's ok with everyone, jb can take the turns after gogf is done. i've got personal business this weekend and, after Friday, won't be available to play till Monday. if gogf and jb get done before that, Cmdr Bello and I can swap to get this thing rolling again.

Commander Bello

May 26, 2004, 11:04 AM

For me it is ok to get jb into the boat ....
As I will be off to Switzerland in some hours, it would be quite o.k., if jb would take the save from Gogf. Then, I could take over from him at the weekend, and grahamiam could continue on Monday.
Btw, the aversion to install 1.22 is caused by the incompatibility between 1.22 saves and 1.15 games. As far as I understood, except for the railroad bug nothing was fixed in 1.22 (compared with 1.15), but they decided to get rid of the Radio-tech... for whatever reason.

So, the whole gang now is waiting for Gogf?

Gogf

May 26, 2004, 03:09 PM

Skip me :(. I have a science project that counts as our exam due Friday, and it is killing me.

@JB: You're in :).

grahamiam

May 26, 2004, 03:18 PM

@JB: You're in :).
not only in, but up! :D

i think Cmdr Bello and I came to the conclusion that Paris should keep pumping out settlers for now rather than switch to a wonder build. also, CB has a settler/warrior pair in position for a new city so just settle right there. SoZ should be ready soon and we are trying for Monarchy in regards to tech.

good luck and feel free to post questions :)

Commander Bello

May 26, 2004, 03:21 PM

Good luck to both of you: Gogf for the exame, jb for his turns :-)

jb1964

May 26, 2004, 03:35 PM

OK, I got 1.15 and 1.22 up and running.

Just wanted to verify that you left off with 730 BC.

I got it.

I'll be able to open it up tonight but I want to read the thread. My goal is to finish up by Thursday or some stupid early hour on Friday morning.

jb1964

May 27, 2004, 12:32 AM

Save GGF3_550_BC.SAV (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/GGF3_550_BC.SAV)

Read through thread and here are my thoughts...
Pump settlers from Paris to grab land and generate income.
I like swords and spears. Swords are great in AA and spears upgrade through MA. But we also need some Archers for Barb slaying so I'm going to go for a mix of units and let the rest of you put them to use.

277g w/ -2pgt, Monarchy in forever (22 turns) :king:
Research pegged at 100% which puts lux at, you guessed it, 0%.
MM Paris to get settler and growth in 1
Lyons making 7spt is perfect for Spear/Arch/Cat (I'll stick to the things w/ feet for now)
Not sure why Tours and Rheims are building Temples but I assume we're looking for expanding boarders and no immediate hassle from our warring neighbors.
BTW, we already have wines so going for the wines in the NW won't help in the Lux department.

<Deep sigh and hit return on first SG turn>
(IBT) Incas move around and a barb horse is running around in the North and another shows up in the west.

(1) 710 BC, Found Avignon. Growth in 10 -> worker (We seem low on them)
Dispatch barb horse w/ elite archer.
Worker to road near Lyons

(IBT) Incas dance, barb horse in north retreats, volcano in SW barfs on barb village. I weep for them.

(2) 690 BC, Lyons arch -> spear. Move out arch to explore to east.
Move elite arch towards barb village.
Vet archer (2*4) in north attacks barb horse across river (1.25*2). Flawless victory.
Exploring warrior has even chances in NW to club barb village on hill. I pass it up to explore and let the barbs hassle in Inca.
Paris is still pegged for food and gold.

(IBT) Nothing much

(3) 670 BC, SoZ is built in Lyons. With 8 spt I set it to barracks in 5.
I move an acher up towards Rheims because there's a lot of Inca and Iriquois warrior activity and we just have a warrior defender.
Elite archer kicks barb camp into dust and gathers 25g but is redlined.

(IBT) Nothing

(4) 650 BC, Retreat elite arch to hills to heal. Exploration east finds another barb camp. These things are like rats!

(IBT) Pachacute demands CoL! Argh! :mad: I hate giving into demands and agonize over this for some time. I'm just about to tell him to pound sand when I'm told he has swords. I have nothing to stop swords up by his territory and I'm outnumbered. I cave. It now comes to mind that I have totally ignored trades! With CoL in hand I should have tried to shop it around on turn 1. I later discover that there is no deal to be had w/ the Inca and the Iriquois have nothing to offer. That remains the case for all my turns.

(5) 630 BC, zzzz

(IBT) zzzz

(6) 610 BC, Harvest barb in the east for 25g
Fortify elite archer to heal on hill
Move unit to Tours (Inca swords are running about)
Send settler from Paris south w/ spear

(IBT) Inca build the HG. I guess we'll be getting that later.

(7) 590 BC, Move exploring warrior in NW towards goody hut
Move next Paris settler out w/ a warrior escort

(IBT) Celts build ToA

(8) 570 BC, Lyons (SoZ) spits out an AC. My first. His horse looks like my mother-in-law.
Lyons spear -> arch
Move settlers S and SW
Warrior pops hut and gets maps. Pink boarder to the N & NW. We'll move that way.

(IBT) Barb horse move in by settler w/ spear escort. Barb villages to the south look loaded.
Orleans riots! Rats! Juggling warriors to escort my settler and I didn't check the cities for attitude. My hope was to get through this first turn having done no harm. *Hopes dashed* :cry:

(9) 550 BC, Found Besancon w/ warrior escort. This is risky.
I retreat the other settler moving south to the mountains and bring in a spear and our AC one step behind. I guess I'm thinking of doubling the escort and letting the AC feed on barbs.
Elite arch is healed and I move him towards Besancon. He'll get there too late if the barbs decide to sack it.

OK, I'm not sure how I did it but I managed to only take 9 turns. Such is Civ.

Final stats...
9 Cities
1 settler
5 workers
13 warriors
3 archers
4 spears
1 AC

306 gold in the treasury w/ -3gpt. We're below our allowed number of units so I managed to add maintenance costs w/o increasing income. What was I building those roads for?

grahamiam

May 27, 2004, 06:31 AM

nice set jb. i can take it and will play 11 to even things out. post a pic if you can so we take a look at progress.
wines to the north are just to keep them from others. the long term goal is those gems and to backfill behind the wines so we have enough cities to take this landmass :hammer:

tough about that demand for CoL but you made the right choice. we're not ready for war yet but the inca will get thiers soon enough :evil:

jb1964

May 27, 2004, 08:29 AM

I know I saw a nice tool to grab screenshots. I'll look for it during my staff meeting so that there's some productivity. Once I'm back home I'll try and get a screenshot or two posted.

Brief description...
Lyons is burning but that will end next turn. My 5 turn barracks became 6.
More of the map is uncovered in the NW. Pretty unremarkable terrain but I found the coastline and see the edge of our next contact.
More of the map uncovered in the East and found the coast.
To our South we have more than a couple of barbs and one visable camp. I think there's another one to the SE.
Infrastructure is a bit improved.
- More roads through our forest/sheild cities for gold
- A few irrigated squares and a mine or two

BTW, Iriquois are far behind us in tech and broke. The Aztecs are 3-4 ahead. Both are polite but the Aztecs did extort us. I'm glad they appear to be first on the menu.

I don't want to overextend but a coastal city to build a curragh is needed to skim the shorelines and make contacts.

grahamiam

May 27, 2004, 08:50 AM

while in the game, zoom in or out with "Z". get into position and then hit alt+print screen on your keyboard. alt+tab or hit your windows button, open Paint that comes with windows, and hit ctrl+v (paste). save file and then attach. no problemo :)

i'll look at what we can do about getting exploring ships. we do need to meet more people cause the ones we got are lousy. you say the aztecs are up 3-4 tech? which ones? do they have construction yet?

grahamiam

May 27, 2004, 01:19 PM

sorry jb, forgot to add that you must save the picture as a .gif or a .jpg ;) i will play and post tonight

grahamiam

May 27, 2004, 10:12 PM

The save is attached below this post

I played 11 turns to even things out. We have Map Making and Monarchy but I didn’t revolt yet (waiting for a settler in 1T). Inca are in the MA :(

Preflight check: Paris is building a barracks for some reason. Switch to warrior (1T) so it can get back to settlers. MM Tours off non irrigated river plain onto irrigated river plain. Rotate 1 warrior out of Marseilles towards Besancon since there are lots of barbs in it’s neighborhood. Move the reg warrior out of Paris onto a forrest to try to bait the barb horse away from the spear/settler pair on the hill.

4 barb horse and 1 barb warrior to our SW

Notes: Inca up MM, HBR, and Monarchy. They are a Monarchy right now.

IBT: Paris warrior -> settler (MM off irr game onto wine hill, growth still in 1T); Tours temple -> worker (to improve Rheims area); Marseilles worker -> market; borders of Rheims expands, MM off wheat and onto river plain to shave 1T off spear build
Inca building MoM; SoD of barb horses remains static.

T1: 530BC Reg AC kills barb warrior. Extra spear joins settler spear pair with the other spear fortifying on the mountain. Rotate spear between Orleans and Marseilles towards Paris to escort next settler. Worker pair near Chartres finishes road, moves to sugar. The 2 archers automove. Please try your best to avoid doing this :) . Worker moves to connect Besancon. MM off wheat and onto river plain to shave 1T off spear build. Adjust sci slider to 90% (Monarchy still in 10T). MM Orleans off River grass and onto mined hill to slow growth. Marseilles then uses this BG to shave 9T off market build.

Warrior 6 has met the Arabs and they don’t look too happy with us. They are down Alphabet! They have iron connected. Trade Alpha to them for 125g. Inca still won’t part with a tech.

IBT: Orleans barracks -> warrior; Lyons archer -> archer; Avingnon worker -> warrior

Inca complete MoM in Corihuayrachina (geez, hope we can get that city just to change its name)

T2: 510BC Vet archer moves out of Lyons to barb hunt; workers near Marseilles mine river grass; worker near Besancon roads; elite archer near Marseilles moves into town; workers road sugar near Chartres, move Lyons worker to tile S of sugar to connect loop; AC heals, spear and 2 settlers move S (out of range of barb SoD but next to 1 barb horse)

IBT: barb horse dies on our spear; Rheims spear -> granary (I think this town can fill our southern flank if we let it)

T3: 490BC settler/spear trio go S, worker near Avington irrigates the wheat, workers near Chartres irr sugar; warrior 12 moves next to barb camp south of Besancon; move spear out of Paris, I’m gonna try to sit him on a hill next to the barb camp to see if I can get them to kill themselves.

IBT: SoZ produces vet AC, Orleans warrior -> warrior

T4: 470BC settler and spear move to hill after ¾ spear investigates area, move warrior onto hill next to barb camp; Vet AC moves to Tours as a deterent; reg warrior moves out of Orleans to gain experience barb hunting; elite bow fortifies in Marseilles; move worker pair to iron hill (time to connect); worker near Besancon irrigates roaded plain.

IBT: reg warrior next to barb camp kills 1 barb horse and redlines another before dieing; Lyons Archer -> archer; Tours worker -> market (insanely long time but could be a library prebuild) also Tours’ border expand and we are seriously pressuring Vitcos; Chartes archer -> temple (bah, irrigating that sugar did nothing, will have to mine it now, wasting 4 worker turns :( )

T5: 450BC MM Paris off forrest and onto mined grass for 4fpt and settler still in 2T; reg AC attacks barb camp, netting us 25 big ones, Found Rouen -> temple; workers between Chart and Lyons mine sugar and irrigate plains

Trade Philosophy and Poly to Iroquois for Map Making and 27g

IBT: AC defends against 2 barb horses, promoting to elite!; barb horse pops out of fog and interferes with worker near Rhiems; Archer outside of Lyons defends against barb warrior; Orleans warrior -> warrior

T6: 430BC Archer in Rheims kills barb horse, promoting to elite (2/5); archer south of Besancon kills last barb horse from SoD; spear moves out of Tours to protect elite archer;

IBT: iron road completed; spear protecting elite archer kills barb horse; AC defends against barb warrior; Paris settler -> settler

T7: 410BC Warrior6 leaves barb camp on hill to the far north alone so they can mess with the Inca; Upgrade 2 vet warrior in Orleans to swords and upgrade 1 reg warrior there also (for barb hunting); move warrior out of Marseilles to mountain across from a barb warrior that would have to attack across a river(looking for promotion); workers don’t mine the but move to a river grass instead; Move settler NW towards horses with spear for Besancon covering; worker near Bensancon finishes irrigating plain and moves to another plain for irrigating, vet warrior moves out of Paris towards Orleans for upgrade; mine and irrigation finished between Lyons and Chartess so I MM Chartess to get pop up, slowing temple build by 4T but doubling growth rate. Elite AC will go home so other AC’s can promote

IBT: reg warrior defeats barb warrior but is redlined (no promotion); Orleans warrior -> sword; Lyons archer -> sword; a barb horse parks on the hill next to Rouen;

T8: 390BC MM Paris off forest and onto river grass (+4fpt, +5 spt); reg sword moves out of Orleans for barb hunting; 2 vet swords move to Lyons; upgrade vet warrior;

Inca have construction and are now in the MA

IBT: SoZ makes another vet AC

T9: 370BC Move vet AC out to barb hunt; irrigating around Chartess and Lyons (I thing Lyons should be size 5 to get more spt); sword finds barb hut; upgrade another vet warrior; MM Paris off mined grass and onto forest (+3fpt, +6spt); adjust sci slider to 60% (Monarchy still in 2T, +19gpt)

IBT: Iroquios and Inca sign peace :( ; Besancon worker -> temple

T10: 350BC reg sword disperses barb camp, promoting to vet; MM Lyons off forrest and onto irr plain to promote some growth (sword still in 3T); irrigate wheat near Rheims; finish road near Marseilles; adjust sci slider to 50% to get +20gpt;

Monarchy -> Lit (8T, -1gpt @ 90%, no one has it yet), hold off on revolt till settler done; Avignon warrior -> temple

Vikings complete GLight; Inca cascade to the Great Wall but are not finished yet

T11: 330BC Archer kills barb horse on hill near Rouen; vet sword heads home; vet AC looking for barbs in the southland; interesting, Orleans has grown to size 6 and has 3 unhappy people. It is 2T from a sword so I try to hire a taxman but it’s gonna starve. I raise the lux tax to 10% (now we are at -7gpt). After the sword build, next player can build a worker. MM Paris to get +4fpt and +6spt, settler still due in 1T. Move warrior out of Rheims towards Orleans for upgrade. MM sci slider down to 80%, lit still in 8T but now at -3gpt. This may screw us up cause Paris will drop to pop 3 next turn. However, it may not matter if the next play wants to revolt. We have an extra 2 units at the moment so we are pay 2gpt in upkeep for that. Will let the next player decide if we want to disband.

Imho, settler/spear pair has reached their destination but next player may want to move so all 3 wines will be in city radii during expansion. Rheims will have it’s granary in 7T and will grow in 7T so please remember to switch to river mountain for 1T so the granary is filled before growth. I think this town can then start building settlers to fill in our southern area.

Inca are willing to trade HBR for 16gpt and 166g, too rich for me, especially considering that the Arabs and Iroquios have no gold to give us.

As for military, we are really too weak to take on the Inca. However, it may be possible to pop a couple of cities and try to sign a quick peace. It would be better if we could get the Iroquois or Arabs involved but both of them are more pathetic than us.

If next player revolts, please do so after settler finishes. You may want to consider finishing the 2 swords in Orleans and Lyons as well. Temple and market builds are around but you may want to switch. I was thinking they could be a useful prebuild to Libraries if we wanted those instead. A pair of archers are to the south to deal with the barb camp down there. You may or may not want to destroy it because someone else will be in the MA soon so we can expect a massive barb uprising at that time(that’s why I’m hunting all BV’s close to home. Good luck :)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/ggf3_330bc.JPG

grahamiam

May 27, 2004, 10:19 PM

this is our army right now. would be nice if those warriors could all be upgraded but the civ's we know right now aren't helping much with the gold.

jb1964

May 28, 2004, 12:27 PM

- I'm pretty new to playing this with any but the least amount of strategy so this is just going to be a bit of a rambling stream of thought -

At this point I would start thinking when to attack the Aztecs and how that affects our expansion.
Attack
We get an AC every 5 turns and can build from swords backwards, including cats.
The Aztec are in the Middle Ages and should be able to muster pikes soon and knights in the not to distant future if they set their mind to it.
In 40 turns we would have 8 more (11 total) AC, numerous swords and be in a monarchy. I'm not sure what to expect from the Inca.
The Iriquois and the Arabs shouldn't be a threat. Off continent AI's shouldn't be able to place a fighting force on our soil and are likely never to get it right if they could.

Build
We'll shortly have our 11th city.
There's room to grow in the W, S and E and limited opportunity to the N.
We can still place cities to the south that are close to the capitol.
The Diamonds in the NNW are quite a distance off and we'll loose any city we put there if we war w/ the Inca. Hooking it up will be another issue.

Since we went to the trouble to get SoZ and we have so many warriors around to upgrade, if desired, it seems like our best time to strike is not too far off. If agreed upon the next considerations are the goal of this war and what force/infrastructure we should be building to support said campaign.

Again, I'm new to playing w/ much thought in mind and I have thick skin. Please let me know if I'm off my rocker.

grahamiam

May 28, 2004, 12:34 PM

your not off your rocker at all :) we need to seriously consider putting a dent in the inca before they get too far away from us. however, do we do it now or wait till chivalry? imho, it will take us a very long time to get to chivalry since the local AI's are fairly useless and we probably don't want to make Pachu too rich. we may luck out and the Iroquios research Construction before Monarchy, thus giving us a viable trade option.

if we do attack the inca soon, i don't think it could be a protracted war. maybe 3 or 4 cities at most. however, that would just let us expand a little, which, as you pointed out, we can already do without war. i don't think the local cities we could take are adding that much to his coffers.

Commander Bello

May 28, 2004, 01:55 PM

Just returned home from Switzerland, and being eagerly reading. As far as I know, I am up, and will grab the save tomorrow, if noone intercepts me.
As far as I see it, we shouldn't upgrade ALL warriors. Some of them will just fulfill mp duties, and we should save some money to hurry improvements after having switched to Monarchy (which I strongly suggest, as any waiting will won't benefit us, but inflate the anarchy times, instead).

Nice jobs done by you, jb and graham! :-)

grahamiam

May 28, 2004, 01:59 PM

yes cb, you are up! good luck. also, it's ok with me if you want to play some extra turns since you'll be the one saddled with the anarchy period :)

Commander Bello

May 28, 2004, 01:59 PM

ahh... you guys are so quick with posting...
My reply from above was *before* the last two comments of you.
I agree with considering war against the Incans in the near future, but I would like to have Monarchy first. Furthermore, we shouldn't wait for Chivalry (which all the others will get prior to us, at it seems), so that we can make the best use of our ACs.
Just my 0.02 EURO :-)
[off for dinner after 360 miles of driving]

grahamiam

May 28, 2004, 02:21 PM

i agree with you, cb. revolt to monarchy 1st, then go after inca asap. we'll need the extra production. also, AC's are best against spears and swords plus we have 1 elite atm.

jb1964

May 28, 2004, 02:39 PM

You could take Arequipa and take/raze Victos and wait for the counter attack in the mountains and across the river. Once we have a better understanding of their strength, based on the counter, then the hills/mountains in the East look like a nice approach route into their lands for more valuable targets.

With enough units you could come in from the West once Inca forces where overextended on the counter. But I don't think we'll have enough units to pull that off.

BTW, Arequipa gives us that port city we need.

Yes, Corihuayrachina needs to be renamed. How about "Cori"?

Last thought, put a setter/escort up by the daimonds to settle just post war.

grahamiam

May 28, 2004, 02:43 PM

Yes, Corihuayrachina needs to be renamed. How about "Cori"?
or bellograd, gramytown, gogfville... sorry can't think of one for jb1964. maybe beatlemania? :lol:

jb1964

May 28, 2004, 07:38 PM

Haha, Johnstown works for me.

Commander Bello

May 29, 2004, 12:50 PM

pre-flight checks:
Unit count:
1 settler, 9 workers, 11 warriors, 7 archers, 5 spears, 6 swords, 3 ACs (42 of 40 allowed)
Our units are quite dislocated at the moment, but this has been caused by Barb hunting. Nevertheless, it is time to relocate them. As some of our precious swords are bound to mp duties, we should have more warriors (preferably spears for this). Our military is weak in comparison with the Incans! At the moment, we are not prepared for a war.
All, we could achieve would be the conquest of Vitcos (next to Tours), while Rheims might very well get lost.
Based on all we know, our borders to the south and to the west are not threatened. This would allow us to relocate our attacker units (swords and archers) to the Incan border. The next AC should go for Barbs in the south (as it will have higher chances of success, better manouverability and might return as elite to the front, thus giving it higher chances for MGL creation.

Cities:
10; building 2 swords, 1 worker, 1 settler, 2 markets, 3 temples, 1 granary
Orleans: 3h/0c/3u; +0fpt due to terrain; 8/9 shields, sword in 2; 2 swords as mp
=> should build temple after sword, has 3 forests available for chopping
Lyons: 3h/0c/1u; +1 fpt; 6/7 shields, sword in 2, 1 sword 1 archer as mp
=> should build temple later, has 3 forests available for chopping
Rheims: 2h/2c/0u; +1 fpt (next in 7); 4/8 shields, granary in 7; 1 spear, 1 archer as mp
=> should switch granary to courthouse to maximize shields. The wheat on floodplains will make it the next settler factory, anyway.
Tours: 3h/0c/0u; +2fpt (next in 3);3/4 shields, market in 28; 3 swords, 1 AC as mp
=> should switch to barracks for quick recovery of wounded troops
Marseilles: 2h/1c/0u; +2fpt (next in 5); 4/5 shields, market in 15; 1 warrior as mp
=> I see a temple for cultural expansion as well
Chartres: 2h/0c/0u; +2fpt (next in 2); 3/4 shields, temple in 14; 1 warrior as mp
=> nothing to be changed yet
Avignon: 0h/2c/0u; +2fpt (next in 9); 2/4 shields, temple in 30, 2 warriors as mp
=> nothing to be changed yet
Besancon: 1h/0c/0u; +2fpt (next in 9); 2/2 shields, temple in 29, 1 warrior as mp
=> nothing to be changed yet
Rouen: 0h/1c/0u; +2fpt (next in 4); 1/2 shields, worker in 4, 2 spears as mp
=> worker should be switched to warrior.
Paris: 3h/0c/2u; +4fpt (next in 3); 6/6 shields, settler in 1, 2 warriors as mp
=> nothing to be changed.

Income:
180 -3gpt (1.8.1), Lit in 9

Ressources:
We have 1 iron and will get 1 horse, soon. Since we don't have construction yet, we cannot build a fortification on our iron supply, which I would prefer.

[finger hovering over return button]

Commander Bello

May 29, 2004, 01:55 PM

.... and he did it...

<pressing return>
IBT
Paris: settler > settler in 8 (mm'd)
Warrior6 spots Incan regular sword heading for Barbs

Turn 1 (310bc)
Worker 3/4 => Lyons for closing road connection towards Avignon
Avignon: switched to warrior (mp), Warrior11 => Chartres
Chartres: mm'd for temple in 10
AC01 explores eastlands for 2 forests, 1 whale. Good location for eastern harbor
Sword 10 (TSFKAW10 :confused: == the sword formerly known as Warrior10 :lol: ) renamed to Sword 10 and => N (to Rheims area)
Warrior13 => N on mountain for having a look into Incan territory
AC02 => Tours, fortifies
AC03 => Orleans
Worker combo escorted by Warrior5 => N to keep roads towards "Ville de Vin" (you recognize my perfect French, don't you :mischief: ) within our territory
Settler combo => NW to have sea, bg and wine access when founding "Ville de Vin"
Settler combo from Paris => Besancon
Worker 1/2 from irrigated plains at Marseilles => Besancon for chopping
Archer1 => N on hills
Archer7 => Rouen
Spear5 => Paris for later escort
Checking military advisor, he reports Goths to be at Lyons area.
Sadly, I decide to relocate archers at southern volcanoe towards Lyons. I will go for the Barbs with the next AC and AC03.
Worker5 => SW on forest for chopping for temple at Chartres
Archer6=> Chartres
Rouen: switched from worker to warrior (3)
Marseilles: switched from market > temple (4)
Tours: switched from market > barracks (7)
Rheims: switched from whatever it has been (market?) to courthouse and thinking about to switching it to settler, loosing 6 shields (1.5 turns). This settler would found a city next to the Incan city formerly known as Ollantaytambo (the future "Gogfville" :p ). This would be a most aggressive manouvre, and I am unsure if this might cause the Incans to go to war. Furthermore, I would like to know about the teams opinion about manouvres like this. For the moment, it hasn't been done and since at the next turn we would loose 10 shields by doing so, I most probably won't do it during my turns anymore.

Unit count:
2 settlers (1), 9 workers (0), 11 warriors (2), 7 archers (0), 5 spears, 6 swords (2), 3 AC (1)

Income:
177 -4gpt; 1.8.1; Lit in 8

grahamiam

May 29, 2004, 02:03 PM

markets were prebuilds. you can change them as desired. as far as Rheims goes, imho, i think a little investment (courthouse or granery) will go a long way. better than a settler right now.

as far as being agressive with the maya, i think patience is key. we don't want to do something that lets them dictate when the war starts. i'd rather launch than absorb the 1st blow. good luck :)

Commander Bello

May 29, 2004, 04:56 PM

(find the save below)

pressing return
IBT:
Orleans: sword > settler(4)
Lyons: sword > sword

Turn2 (290bc)
Will start revolution after settler at Orleans and temple at Marseilles.

Archer 06 fortifies at Chartres
Archer combo => Lyons
Archer 07 fortifies at Rouen
Archer 1 => Marseilles
Worker 09 roads wheat next to Rheims, Sword 10 => Rheims
Warrior13 => Tours
Sword08 @Orleans: => Tours
AC03 => wines at Paris
Worker 1/2 => forest at Besancon

Founded our first harber: Grenoble! ("Ville de Vin")
Grenoble: warrior
Spear05 => Paris
AC01 => Avignon, exploring last unknown tile in the east
Warrior6 => S
Settler combo => Grenoble
Sword 08 from Lyons joins workers 3/4 for protection

Unit count:
1 settlers (2), 9 workers (0), 11 warriors (3), 7 archers (0), 5 spears (0), 8 swords (1), 3 AC (1)

Income:
173 -1gpt; 1.8.1; Lit in 7

pressing return
IBT:
Incans kill Barb
Barbhorse shows up at Lyons
SoZ mystically gives us an AC
Incans build Chuiquapo at gems region :mad:

Turn3 (270bc)
Archer combo => Lyons
Archer1 => Marseilles (pop/temple in 2), fortifies
Sword 10 => Rheims, fortifies
Sword 08 fortifies at Tours
Warrior 13 => Tours, fortifies
AC 04 => Paris
Worker 1/2: chopping at Besancon
Settler combo => N for next harbor north of Grenoble
Spear 5 => Paris
AC03 => workers at Lyons for attack on Barbs
Worker 3/4 close road connection Lyons > Avignon. We can build chariots now!
Worker 08 => Avignon forest for chopping
AC01 => Avignon and south for Barb hunting
Warrior6 => S
Sword 8 fortifies for worker protection

Unit count:
1 settlers (2), 9 workers (0), 11 warriors (3), 7 archers (0), 5 spears (0), 8 swords (1), 4 AC (1)

Income:
172 -1gpt; 1.8.1; Lit in 5

Pressing return
IBT
Barbhorse at Lyons tries to escape encirclement by our ACs
Barbhorse shows up at Marseilles
Rouen(2, next in 10): warrior > worker (10)

Turn4 (250bc)
Archer combo => Paris, since Lyons is protected by ACs
Rheims: mm'd with Taxman for 3 additional gold (pop and court in 8)
Worker9 => Orleans for chopping
Settler combo: N for next city ("Port de wheat" north of Grenoble)
Worker combo: roads towards Grenoble
Spear5 => Paris
Paris: mm'd to settler in 2 (this will drop Paris to size 2, but the settler will come with the settler as of Orleans, and after this, we will revolt)
AC03 kills Barbhorse, waiting for exploration of AC01
AC01 => S, spotting Barbcamp, attacking and winning for 25 gold
Spear04 at Rouen: N (for Besancon)
AC04: barbhunting at the south
AC03 => Lyons
Lyons: switched from sword to temple (8)
Worker 3/4 => Lyons for chopping
Worker8 chops at Avignon
Warrior12 fortifies at Rouen
Warrior6 => S, spotting barbcamp (3 horses, 2 warriors). Bye bye, warrior6, I guess :(
eliteArcher1 attacks barbhorse at Marseilles, killing it
Spear 04 at Rheims => Tours

Income improves. What to do? Establish embassy with Arabs (55 gold)
Arabs are building sword for 24 shields at Mecca, being located next to the canal at the north. They are parking a settler over there (since the sword already has gathered 18 shields, the settler is really parked with 4 spears and 1 warrior). Their military is weaker than ours.

Checking diplo:
Incans lead by HBR and Construction, won't sell anything
Iroqouis are behind by CoL, Curr and Mon, would buy CoL or Curr for all their gold (33)
Cautious Arabia is behind by Writing, Math, Mon, would buy some hieroglyphs for 32 (all they have). I do so, to get some money back and prepare for monarchis rushing of improvements.
Selling Curr to Iroqouis for 33.

Unit count:
1 settlers (2), 9 workers (1), 12 warriors (2), 7 archers (0), 5 spears (0), 8 swords (0), 4 AC (1)

Income:
205 +2gpt; 1.8.1; Lit in 4

pressing return
IBT
Barbcamp releases Barbs, who neglect to take notice of W6
Barbhorse pops up at settler combo :sad:
Marseilles: temple > sword (6)
Avignon: warrior > temple (20)

turn 5 ( 230bc)
AC02 @Tours => Orleans for Barbhunting at the north
Spear04 => Orleans for settler escort
Warrior13 fortifies at Avignon
AC01 => west for barbhunting
Warrior 6 fortifies on mountain
Archer04 fortifies at Paris (settler escort)
Archer03 Paris => Besancon
Settler combo retreats to forest
Archer1 => W towards settler combo
Spear04 => N
Spear05 => N
AC04 => S
AC03 Lyons => Paris
Workers 3/4 chop at Lyons
Chartres: mm'd for pop in 9, temple in 2
Worker5: irrigates at Chartres

Unit count:
1 settlers (2), 9 workers (1), 13 warriors (1), 7 archers (0), 5 spears (0), 8 swords (0), 4 AC (1)
Income:
207 +1gpt; 1.8.1; Lit in 3

pressing return
IBT
Barbs attack Warrior6, survives
Barbhorse passes by at settler combo
Barbhorse shows up at Rouen
Paris: settler > settler
Orleans: settler > temple
Incans found to found cities like crazy

Turn 6 (210bc)
Warrior14 leaves Besancon and attacks Barbhorse at settler combo, killing it
Archer03 => Besancon, fortifies
Spear04 => Orleans, joins settler
Worker1/2 @Besancon => forest for chopping for temple
settler combo joins Archer01 at horseground
Worker6/7 close road connection to Grenoble
Spear4 => N towards Besancon
Spear5 => N to Paris to join settler
AC03 => Grenoble
Warrior12 Chartres => Orleans
AC01 => W,W
AC04 => S
AC02 => Besancon
Worker09: chops at Orleans
Archer07 kills Barbhorse at Rouen, redlined

Unit count:
3 settlers (1), 9 workers (1), 13 warriors (1), 7 archers (0), 5 spears (0), 8 swords (1), 4 AC (1)
Income:
208 -3gpt; 1.9.0; Lit in 2

Postponing revolution to Lit

pressing return
IBT
Barbhorses in the north race south (Grenoble?)
Orleans extends cultural borders, slowly encircling Incan Vitcos
Chartres: temple > chariot (5)

Turn7 (190bc)
Warrior14 => back to Besancon
Settler combo: finally N again
Worker6/7 => N of Grenoble
Worker8: irrigates at Avignon
AC01: W on mountains
AC03: S on forest, spotting the 2 Barbhorses
Archer07=> Rouen for recovery
Spear04 => N
Settler combo @ Paris => Besancon
Worker3/4: chop at Lyons
Warrior12: fortifies at Orleans
Settler combo @Orleans => Paris
Worker1/2 chop @Besancon
AC02 => Grenoble

Unit count:
3 settlers (1), 9 workers (1), 13 warriors (1), 7 archers (0), 5 spears (0), 8 swords (0), 4 AC (1)
Income:
205 +3gpt; 2.8.0; Lit in 1

pressing return
IBT
Incan Chuiciapo spawns off a Chasqui Scout
Barbhorse from Barbcamp rushes towards Chasqui
We've got Literature! Finally, we are now enabled to make long postings!!! :cool:
Decide to go for construction (17). HBR (4) should be something to trade for
We are called "technologically advanced". Errr.. ummm... what???
Another AC
Tours: Barracks > sword (10) not really important, since we are going to revolt now.

Turn8 (170bc)
Settler combo => N, to be near the mountains for defensive manouvres
Archer07 fortifies @Rouen
AC04 attacks Barbhorse, killing it and getting 25 gold from destroyed Barbcamp
AC01 => SW
Worker 3/4 chop for temple at Lyons
Worker 5 roads at Chartres
AC05 Orleans => mountain @Tours
settler combo @Besancon => Grenoble
Spear4 => Besancon
Warrior14 => Besancon, fortifies
AC03 joins northern settler combo
Worker 6/7 road north of Grenoble
AC02 => north to iron deposit. Spots Barbcamp and leaves it for AC03, since #02 is elite already
3rd settler combo @Paris => Lyons, later for "Port de Baleine" ('Port Whale')

No production is imminent to be finalized, so our people are really tired now of being under despotic rule since ages! They revolt!
:eek:

.... and, of course, this will last for six (6!!!) turns... aarghh :mad:

pressing return
IBT
Orleans, Lyons and Rouen go to unrest... My Lord, I've checked the status before ending the turn before! :mad:
Incan Chasqui kills Barbhorse, but Warrior6 still can't attack Barbcamp since it spawns another Barbhorse

Turn9 (150bc - revolting)
AC03 kills Barbcamp for 25 gold
Settler combo => NW
AC05 explores north of Tours
Settler combo => "Port de Baleine"
Archer03: Besancon => Grenoble
Spear04: => Besancon, fortifies
Worker1/2 @Besancon => southern forest for further chopping
Settler combo: => Grenoble
AC02 explores north, spotting a Incan settler combo obviously heading for the iron deposit
AC01 => W
AC04 => SW at volcanoes

mm'd Rheims to growth in 6, 2 Taxmen, giving us +4gpt even under anarchy.

Incans would give 11 gold (all they have) or HBR for Literature. Perhaps we should accept, since *WE* won't get the Great Library. :sad: I'll leave that decision to the team / next player.
Iroqouis and Arabs are way backwards, but have no gold since our last deal with them :lol:

pressing return for the last time
IBT
Incans kill Barbhorse
Barbhorse leaves Barbcamp, so only 1 Barb in there
Orleans, Lyons and Rouen become peaceful again.

Turn10 (130bc - revolting)
AC02 and AC03 block hills next to iron and iron itself to make the Incans move to the desert.
Settler combo#1 (the most northern one) => W
Worker9=> NE to chop for temple @Orleans
Worker3/4 => NW to chop for temple @Lyons
Settler combo#3 (near Lyons) => "Port de Baleine" (this will be S-S-S of Lyons! - I know that it is on a bg, but it will make the best use of the terrain there)
AC05 explores open space north of Tours
AC01 => w
AC04 => s, spotting tundra forests to the west. There won't be much more useable land to the south
Archer03 => Grenoble
Settler combo#2 => north of Grenoble, next to settler combo #1

There are four more turns of revolution to be expected. By chopping, we will almost finalize temples at Lyons, Orleans, Besancon.
Our settler combos at the north should be able to save the iron to us, and to claim the coastal wheat as well. A next settler should be able to get access to the remaining unclaimed gems further to the north.
A hint for the next player:
The wine south of Paris is a trap! It is surrounded by three volcanoes, making that area nothing we would like to settle at.

Good luck!

The save: (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/GGF3_130_BC.SAV)

[edit] the turn is still on, so the next player should attack Barbcamp with Warrior6!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/status-130bc.JPG

grahamiam

May 30, 2004, 10:04 AM

nice turns cb :goodjob: looks like our land is a lot better than the incan land. we should be able to catch-up soon enough.

gogf is up!

Gogf

May 30, 2004, 10:43 AM

Got it! Reading CB's turns...

grahamiam

May 30, 2004, 09:25 PM

A hint for the next player:
The wine south of Paris is a trap! It is surrounded by three volcanoes, making that area nothing we would like to settle at.
Good luck!

you know, it's funny you should mention that. I was wondering how many volcanos it took to cause all that pollution :lol: in regards to that wine, if we settle 1N of the lake (2 tiles E of Rouen) we can get that wine with cultural expansion as well as that gold hill. a little tight and lots of chops so i'd do it as one of the last but still could be a good city.

Commander Bello

May 31, 2004, 04:40 AM

I agree with you.
Could become even better, if Rouen would have been placed 1 N on the hills (which would 've been better in regards to attaching city radii, anyway). But ok, at the time of the Rouen placement the map wasn't known that good as it is just now.
Anyway, your proposed location for sure is one to keep in mind, although I would propose to concentrate on other places for the moment (west expansion => gems; east expansion for a future 3rd harbor there - the other ones would be Grenoble, 'Port de Baleine')

Commander Bello

May 31, 2004, 04:16 PM

Who's up? .....

grahamiam

May 31, 2004, 09:35 PM

gogf, he posted a got it yesterday so he still has a couple of days :)

grahamiam

Jun 01, 2004, 02:49 PM

i just read in another thread that gogf will need till thursday. maybe jb can take the turns and we can consider it a swap till then.

jb1964

Jun 02, 2004, 07:27 AM

Preflight: 130BC, I’m in Anarchy and should be for another 4 turns. Wonderful. I attacked the barbcamp and bagged 25g.

Turn 1, 110BC, Incas kill barbhorse and move a settler west towards the coast. Move settlers in NNW towards iron and coastal wheat. Settler in the E moves towards coast to get the whale.

Turn2, 90BC, Incas get pissed cause I crossed their land with an AC. I promise to move on. Cutting off Inca settler w/ AC’s. Trade Incas Lit and 6g for HR.

Turn 3, 70BC, Incans are building Sun Tsu’s and GL. How piggish. We get another AC. Looks like the Inca are going to settle on coast but I’ll still be able to grab the wheat. I wanted to be north of it to make more room for our iron-grabber settler but it looks like I might have to settle for south. I settle Dijon on the east coast and promptly discover mustard.

Turn 4, 50BC, We switch to monarchy and get word of a massive barbarian uprising near Avignon that is protected by a pair of warriors. Move settlers into position to found next turn and MM every damn city after government switch. I maintained the current unit build except I switch both coastal cities to galleys.
Construction in 16 w/ 301g and +0gpt with research at 60%
26 units over our 24 unit free limit
Corruption is 20gpt

Turn 5, 30BC, Two barbhorse SoD’s move in towards Avignon. 16 in one and 8 in the other. I move a sword in to take some target practice.
I found Cherbourg and Armiens. Hmmm, looks ugly. Should have put Cherbourg out on the peninsula.
Lyons temple to horse, MM growth in 3, horse in 6
Both AC’s in the SW pop goody huts and get barbs.
We have more horses and iron to the south. Some nice grassland, forests and hills w/ a cow, tobacco, game and barbs for flavor.
The Inca’s are only up Const and wont trade for it probably because we have nothing to trade. Iriquois and Arabs are still broke and stupid.

Turn 6, 10BC, Barbhorse SoD killed off sword, archer and our warriors then pillaged and ransacked the snot out of Lyons.
Rouen worker -> barracks
Barb camp in the south has 36 units. Mostly barbhorses. I retreat our AC.
I hire a taxman in Paris. Settler in 2 still.
174g w/ –2gpt and Const in 13 at 70% research rate. Barbs made off w/ a boatload of cash and they’re going to do it again next turn. Sorry gang.

Turn 7, 10AD, Found another barb camp in the NE with a buttload of units. The Inca are moving 12 units through the mountains near our new towns and down towards the south. I hope they’re going barb hunting. Our gold is down to 121 thanks to additional ransacking of Lyons.
Warrior through Lyons attacks and dies to barb.

Turn 8, 30AD,
Paris settler -> settler
Reims courthouse -> barracks
Infrastructure and stuff.
Sword near Lyons kills stinking barb avenging our warriors death.
No trades to be had of any value.

Turn 9, 50AD, It does seem the Incas are headed to the south to kill barbs.
More roads, chops, irrigation, etc.
Barb comes out of the mist and kills the worker at Avignon. This could not be worse.

Turn 10, 70AD,
The Indians have been destroyed. We have some cranky civs out there.
Orleans temple -> sword in 5
Avignon riots. They looked good at the end of last turn but seem to have been unhooked from the luxes. Ok, now our pissed off worker has been turned into a taxman. Back to normal next turn.
Besancon temple -> sword.

The Inca continue to march avoiding our boarders so I’m pretty certain they’re barb hunting with a vengeance. BTW, I think the Inca UU sucks. I’m willing to bet these toads have already had their GA. Man, am I looking forward to a big base of operation and a monster economy when our first musket blows the head off of some poor slob.

OK, I’m ending this fiasco here.
We’re are 106g w/ -6gpt and Const in 8 at 70%
There are still no trades to be had.
I have ended w/ 48 units with 28 free. So I managed to get more units killed than made but got a few cities planted.

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/GGF3_70_AD.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/french70AD.jpg

I threw in some dots to get a discussion about future city placement and order.

grahamiam

Jun 03, 2004, 12:06 PM

tough turns jb, but not bad under the circumstances. barb horsemen can be a real pain. a little trick is to approach them with a military unit from N/S or E/W. They seem to freeze in place in C3C unless something is to the NW/SE or NE/SW. once they take a city, it's sometimes best just to let the keep pillaging rather than wasting 1 sword vs 36 units. hopefully, our incan friends will take care of that barb camp E of Rheims.

btw, i hope we start destroying them before we get to muskets :D

gogf is up :)

Gogf

Jun 03, 2004, 12:25 PM

[quote=jb1964]Preflight: 130BC, I’m in Anarchy and should be for another 4 turns. Wonderful. I attacked the barbcamp and bagged 25g.[/quote

I? How about we :p?

Okay, got it.

jb1964

Jun 03, 2004, 12:34 PM

I was in Anarchy for four turns. It took that long for my wife to get off my back and head towards bed after we got the kids to sleep. :)

Her parents are heading into town and I made a comment about the need for some earplugs and a few cases of beer :beer: for me and an extra plunger for her father.

For some reason this was not well received. Go figure. :confused:

Commander Bello

Jun 03, 2004, 01:28 PM

aaarrgh... again, the forum missed to notify me by mail .... "%&"&"$§"§$ !

Anyway, seems you've had a pretty hard time with your turns, jb!
Loosing some money and units due to barb SoDs is not unusual, so I don't think we've experienced too much harm.
We've got another 3 towns, and a good portion of the Incan military seems to be way off from their homeland, so we could start preparing our campaign against them.

Commander Bello

Jun 03, 2004, 01:49 PM

Allow for some hints:
The two workers at Besancon should irrigate in northern direction, since there we have 3 towns with no access to fresh water, but lots of plains.
The mining at Rouen takes as long as chopping would take, but with chopping we would be able to finish our barracks earlier.
At Chartres, the workers should chop the forest for a market, instead of building roads on forests.
At Rheims, I would suggest to switch barracks to settler, since we are currently loosing 4 fpt (barracks in 5 / settler in 3). That way, we would make the best out of the food there.
At Cherbourg, the roading of the forests could be changed to chopping for an earlier temple there.
Even if cultural flipping has been turned off, extended cultural borders make for slower enemy movement (especially since the Incas seem to have no access to horses - or has anyone seen any mounted units of them?) and more tiles available for us.
One additional remark: the Iroqouis have founded to cities north of the gem region, thus revealing that they already have galleys and are making use of them.
So, it has been quite a good idea to go for our galleys, which will enable us to try to secure the northern iron deposit. Furthermore, we might found a city north of Incan Riobamba, to get access to the gems there.

jb1964

Jun 03, 2004, 03:23 PM

CB - Great input/feedback. Do you normally look to chop most forests? With a forest tile and a bonus grassland it seems to add flexibility in MM the balance between food and shields. And if we're going to use the forest tiles I figured we ought to put a road through them.

I'm nutty about having barracks. I just hate pumping out regular units.

Good catch on the Iriquois taking to the water. My main desire for the galleys is to make contact w/ other civs and increase our trading base. These immediate neighbors of ours are next to worthless. No cash and no techs.

I have not seen any mounted Incas. And I had the same thought that if they were going to send so many forces across the wilderness that they deserved to be attacked. BTW, the Inca's extorted ~25g on my turn. I seriously want to throttle them like a chicken.

Eu vou engasgar voce mesmo um frango.

grahamiam

Jun 03, 2004, 03:39 PM

I'm nutty about having barracks. I just hate pumping out regular units.

me too, but i think Rheims is setup nicely now to backfill our eastern flank with towns, especially since the inca have been so nice to send units down to clear out the barbs :)

re: chops: Chartres has so many trees around, chopping a couple to take some turns off the market would be for the best. irrigating after that will help the pop grow nicely. Not sure were Cherbourg is (2T W of Ameins?) but it's probably fairly corrupt so the 10 shields now may be better.

it was a good set under the circumstances (anarchy + barb uprising). now we can concentrate on the task at hand (getting on with killing off the inca)

Commander Bello

Jun 03, 2004, 03:41 PM

with the landscape as it is presented ot us, at most locations chopping gives us the most benefit. If I remember right, chopping costs just 3 turns for our workers and gives us 10 shields. This is an easy way, to get improvements early.
I avoid chopping for units, though.

The further, the Incans expedition forces go to the south, the better it will serve us. We can take out their units with our ACs, and take the city next to Tours by the swordmen, stationed there.
After that, we should roll up the front at the west, and make our way to the gems. After having secured those,we should make peace and prepare for sacking the Iroquois settlements, as this will give us access to the fourth kind of luxuries.
If we were able to do so, we would be quite fine, I'd guess.

I agree on making use of the galleys for exploration, but currently it could be that they would serve better if being used as transporters.

Any comments from the team?

grahamiam

Jun 03, 2004, 07:04 PM

for now, our troops can go right up the inca's gut, so no need for galley support atm. galleys can find new friends and future foes :)

i agree with your assesment of the inca to the south. maybe we make allies with the barbs and kill them all off :lol:

grahamiam

Jun 07, 2004, 11:28 AM

we're closing in on 96hrs from "got it" gogf. any word?

jb1964

Jun 07, 2004, 12:05 PM

FYI, I'll be on vacation the week of 6/12 to 6/19. If I get the save by Thursday I'll turn it around by Friday evening. If not, skip me.

Gogf

Jun 07, 2004, 12:11 PM

Sorry. I need to start writing down what I'm up in. I'll play by the end of today.

Gogf

Jun 07, 2004, 06:05 PM

Okay, I may not be able to play by the end of today. I will definately start, but I'm not sure if I'll finish. I'll post a log either tommorow, or today.

grahamiam

Jun 09, 2004, 12:44 PM

ok, with jb on vacation soon and gogf awol, i nominate this game for slumber till either 1 or the other gets back. no sense in cmdr bello and i playing ping-pong with the save for 1-2 weeks.

any thoughts from others?

jb1964

Jun 09, 2004, 02:14 PM

I would like to put in 10 turns prior to vacation.

grahamiam

Jun 09, 2004, 02:18 PM

I would like to put in 10 turns prior to vacation.
2 sets in a row? not really the best either and we should avoid that.

i could play tonight and if cmdr bello plays tomorrow, you could get the game at the earliest late Thursday or on Friday. however, I think he's traveling for work and can only play weekends. kind of why i was floating the sabatical idea.

if he checks in tonight and confirms he will play tomorrow after my set, then I'll go ahead tonight and play.

jb1964

Jun 09, 2004, 02:57 PM

Sorry, I'm thinking of another SG that I'm poised to play. No, I don’t want to play from my own save. It would be counter to why I signed up to play and the benefits that SG’s offer.

I’ll talk w/ you all after the 19th.

Commander Bello

Jun 11, 2004, 01:31 PM

Just arrived back home. Who's up?

Gogf seems to be away, so it would be Grahamiam, I guess? If he would do so and JB would play really fast, I could do my turns as well this weekend....

grahamiam

Jun 11, 2004, 01:49 PM

sorry cb, jb is gone till the 19th and gogf seems to be out indefinitely. we could probably do 1 turn each but then it would be just you and me passing the save back and forth, not very SG like imho. that's why I suggested that this one rests till at least gogf or jb gets back. if you want to do something different, let me know. i can't play this one till Saturday so I'm not sure if that's enough time for you.

grahamiam

Jun 11, 2004, 05:16 PM

ok, i play and post by sunsay if gogf stays awol.

Commander Bello

Jun 11, 2004, 05:22 PM

Good luck! :-)

jb1964

Jun 11, 2004, 06:48 PM

I will be able to lurk but I won't be able to play until the 19th. I would like to load Civ on the laptop but my employer would certainly object. :) I'll see this one to the end.

Gogf's lurking another one of my games but has added to his signature that he's passing on his SG's until further notice.

Gogf

Jun 12, 2004, 02:59 PM

Okay, I'm back! Reviewing the situation. Sorry, I was having major computer promlems, and Civ3 wasn't exactly working properly. Reviewing what I missed. I have a while to do that now, so I should be done my tommorow night.

Gogf

Jun 13, 2004, 06:20 PM

:mad: I'm so far behind in this, I think I won't be done until tommorow. If you want to skip me, okay. I am trying to do this as quickly as possible. Still reading what I missed...

Commander Bello

Jun 13, 2004, 06:29 PM

The last save was from the 2nd. Today it's just the 14th.
If we progress with the same speed, we will enter the industrial age with the release of Civ4.
So, I would suggest Grahamiam to pick up the save, this will give Gogf enough time to read what has happened, and both of you time enough to do your turns prior to next weekend.

Gogf

Jun 13, 2004, 06:32 PM

:lol: Okay, thank you CB. Yeah, Civ3 refused to work properly, because my computer was running so slowly because of some internet security thing I have installed, that would stop trying to work. It took about five minutes to move a worker, and twenty minutes to found a city when I started a new game to test. I hate it when Comcast dies...

grahamiam

Jun 13, 2004, 07:29 PM

ok, i got it. will try to play and post tonight.

grahamiam

Jun 13, 2004, 10:14 PM

first, the 260AD save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/GGF3_260AD.SAV)

Preflight check: Ok, settler available. I’m gonna use him to secure the horses N of Bes.; MM Paris to get growth and settler in 3T.
Rheims changed to settler from barracks and MM off FP wheat to remove chance of disease.
Chartres switched to market, 1 worker nearby stops roading and starts chopping (other will be done in 1T)
Worker near Orleans is irrigating a non-river plain while a river plain is available. Hint: river plain gives more money ;) Don’t stop worker as he’ll be done in 1T anyways.
7 barb horsemen W of Rouen. Change Rouen from barracks to temple
MM Avignon off horse and onto river plain with road to get extra 1g, and fire the clown for a taxman
Wake roading worker between Cherbourg and Amiens and have him finish the chop. 10 shields go to Amiens so I switch that town from barracks to temple.

Military: we have unit support for 28 but have 48 units. Looks like we need more cities (well, not that we expected different)

IBT: Inca Chasqui scout kills 1 barb horse near Rouen.

T1: 90AD AC kills BH on mountain near Avignon. Another AC auto-moves towards Rouen. 2 workers chop the just roaded forest near Chartres.

IBT: 24 BH’s pop out of a forest near Rouen, taking the worker that was mining the town; Tours sword -> sword; Marseillis sword -> Library

T2: 110AD All units abandon Rouen (1 warrior, 1 archer, 2 AC’s). I’d rather lose some gold than 4 good units.

IBT: Celts and Arabia sign peace (do we know the celts?); 2 chops near Chartres finish; @ Rouen: the damage is 11 shields of the temple build, 1 pop, and 71g but 24 BH vanish without losing a single unit; Paris settler -> settler (MM for growth in 2T); SoZ produces an AC; Rheims settler -> settler (MM for shields, growth in 1T)

T3: 130AD Found Poitiers 1T N of horse -> library; Near Rouen: AC kills BH and goes into city joining the warrior and the archer, vet AC kills BH, elite AC kills BH (1 BH left, 3 units in town)

Inca now up Construction and Republic

Trade: Arabs: 43g for Philosophy

IBT: AC defends in Rouen and promotes to elite; Iroquois building Glib; 4 BH’s pop out N of Avignon

T4: 150AD AC goes to investigate BH’s near Avignon and finds 25 of them. AC retreats to a mountain; reg sword kills BW S of Paris, promoting to vet.; wake 4 swords out of Tours to send south to clear BH’s

IBT: get some really lousy RNG and AC on mountain dies after killing only 3 BH’s; Orleans sword -> sword; Lyons horseman -> swordsman

T5: 170AD Move units some more against the large mass of barb units near Avignon.

IBT: Inca demand 22g and I cave

T6: 190AD Kill 3 BH’s SE of Rheims

T7: 210AD Kill 4 BH’s SE of Rheims (only 18 to go :) ); Found Toulouse -> library; Found Bayonne -> worker; a horse on a mountain spot the 18 BH due W

IBT: As predicted, the 18BH’s do not move. Paris settler -> settler (MM for growth); SoZ makes another AC; Rheims settler -> settler

T8: 230AD AC’s find that the BH to the south contains 32 BH’s and 4 BW’s, move all 3 due N of BV; MM sci slider (construction in 1T)

IBT: construction -> mono (27T @ 60% +4gpt, Inca have Fuedalism); Tours sword -> sword; Grenoble galley -> galley; Dijon galley -> Library; Vikings complete Great Wall; Inca building Sun’s

T9: 250AD Galley from Grenoble heads NW; Galley from Dijon heads E, finds 3 barb galleys and turns around :D; AC’s near the 32 BH’s attack; Road reconnect Avignon so I can fire the taxman; 2 swords approach the stack of 18 BH’s NE of Avignon from due W

IBT: Galley from Grenoble survives, galley from Dijon defends 2x but is sunk; Orleans sword -> sword; Avignon Temple -> Library

T10: 260AD 2 swords, 3 AC, and 1 horse kill 6 of the 18 BH’s near Avignon; redlined galley stops in Cherbourg to heal; 2 AC’s attack and 1 heals south of Rouen.

I started building Library’s because our research ability is pathetic. We should try to build a couple more, especially the towns close to Paris that are on rivers. I also have settlers going to our SE. I’d like to claim that land from barbs so we stop getting them from that area. Keep the units stacks due W or due N from the barb villages. Barbs will not attack you as long as you are on that sort of vector.

This was really a ho-hum set of turns. The barb problem is really ours alone and we can't do anything about the Inca till we solve it. Try to take all the land you can with settlers and cultural expansions.

Inca are up Fuedalism and Republic. Everyone else is stupid but you should check them every turn in case they suddenly get some gold. Also, we can use our tech lead over them to draw them into war.

Good luck :thumbsup:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/ggf3-260AD.JPG

Commander Bello

Jun 15, 2004, 12:23 PM

hmmm... looks like quite some good land available after the barbkilling season...

Why did you go for Monotheism? Why not Feudalism > Chivalry? :confused:

As we seem to have the advantage of having horses and the Incans don't, Knights would be quite helpful to get rid of them....

grahamiam

Jun 15, 2004, 12:58 PM

Why did you go for Monotheism? Why not Feudalism > Chivalry? :confused:
Inca have Feudalism so I felt if we got mono and a couple of more contacts, we could trade for Feudalism and research Chivalry (fued and mono are prereq's for chivalry). and yes, my thought process was towards knights so we could take this landmass.

are you playing or is gogf up?

Commander Bello

Jun 16, 2004, 03:05 AM

Oh, since I'm currently modding, I just forgot about the mono>chivalry link... Sorry about that... :-\)
If we would have the chance to get knights before the Incans do, this would really be great. Although, even the ACs will help us enormously as long as they don't have fast units.

To the best of my knowledge, Gogf is up.
Anyway, I will be off till Friday late evening my time, so I can't play anyway.

grahamiam

Jun 16, 2004, 06:43 AM

ok, sounds good. travel safely.

gogf, time to get into your game again! luckily you have a day or 2 to read up though not much going on except getting our flank filled with cities so your turns should be fairly routine.

Gogf

Jun 16, 2004, 08:58 AM

I'm up? Got it!

Gogf

Jun 17, 2004, 09:17 AM

Okay, I'll play later today.

Gogf

Jun 18, 2004, 08:59 AM

Sorry for the delays. I will finish soon.

Gogf

Jun 18, 2004, 08:20 PM

Sorry this is going so slowly. I'm really close to done, but there is something I have to do now, and in the morning. I should hvae a log by early afternoon tommorow. I have two turns left to play.

Gogf

Jun 19, 2004, 07:39 AM

Log:

Preturn:

IBT: Incan Settler/Spear pair enters our territory.

1: Kill some barbs.

IBT: Incans kick us out.

2: Kill more barbs.

IBT: Incans send in a pike/settler pair.
Incans have an SoD near south barbs.

3: Paris riots. Damn, I missed that one.
We get an ACav.
Lyons swords >> Market

IBT: Incan Chasquises attack barbs, swords move into range.
Barbs attack the Incan SoD. Good, there will only be one left, and we

can take the camp.
To their credit, those barbs did a nice job on the SoD.

4: Copan completes TGL. Disband the barb camp, and notice that the

Incans have another SoD nearby.

5: Paris Settler >> Market.
Orleans Sword >> Settler.
Rheims Settler >> Settler.
Tours Sword >> Worker.
Found Strasbourg in the South.

IBT: Our galley dies, and we see a new pike/settler pair.

6: Catres Spear >> Worker
We are in dire need of more workers.
Disband our northern warrior. He's not going anywhere, and is just a

drain on resources.

IBT: Our horse dies being attacked by barbs.

7: Tours Worker >> Worker.
Marseilles Lib >> Market
Bayonne worker >> worker.

IBT: Barbs kill our ACav.

8: We get a new ACav.
Chatres Worker >> worker.
Besancon spear >> worker.
Found Brest in the south.

9: Tours wroker >> wrokrer.

10: Orlean settler >> settler.
Chatres worker >> worker.
Found Bordeaux.

:wallbash: I accidentally press enter. I'm really sorry. I promise I

didn't do anything.

Rheim settler >> settler.
Besancon worker >> worker.

And sorry again it look so long.

jb1964

Jun 19, 2004, 09:31 PM

Back in town.

Things are looking good.

What's the order these days?

Commander Bello

Jun 20, 2004, 04:27 AM

Welcome back, JB!

I hope, you've had a good time?
Anyway, I would propose that you pick it up (or is it Grahamiam)? Well, as far as I remember, it is up to you, then Grahamiam, then me.

All: please be informed, that I will only have the chance to play on weekends. So, if you would arrange that the three of you play during the week and myself having the chance to pick it up on Fridays or Saturdays, it would be perfect for me.

jb1964

Jun 20, 2004, 01:49 PM

I'll grab and play in the next few days.

The vacation went very well. My health has been a matter of concern for a few days shy of a year now but this week off has demonstrated that I appear to be on the mend. We built huge sand castles and caught about 60 sea bass and red snapper. I was wiped out but it felt good. It will be good to report this to my doctor tomorrow.

The only downside is that I'm going to have 150 email messages to sort through tomorrow. :)

Commander Bello

Jun 20, 2004, 04:11 PM

Have fun with your emails... I know how this feels, when I come back after a week and first have to do my company email, and then the private ones...
But good to hear, that you're doing better. So, just relay, keep it easy and recover even more!
Don't feel under pressure - just take your time. We will manage somehow to get us all in a row, and switching always is easy.
Once again, good to have you back and take care!

grahamiam

Jun 21, 2004, 07:01 AM

ok jb, glad to hear your back and your vacation was nice :)

i'm gonna post the team roster so we can get organized here:

Roster
Gogf <-just played
jb1964 <-UP
grahamiam <- on deck
Commander Bello
<open>

i probably only need 1 night before the weekend jb so you can take your time. just try to finish by Thursday and I'll get done before cb gets back. good luck :thumbsup:

jb1964

Jun 22, 2004, 03:45 PM

OK, My goals for these set of turns will be to
1. settle territory to rid us of the barbs
2. get a galley out looking for the cets, etc.
3. make tech trades if possible

grahamiam

Jun 22, 2004, 04:06 PM

OK, My goals for these set of turns will be to
1. settle territory to rid us of the barbs
2. get a galley out looking for the cets, etc.
3. make tech trades if possible
looks good. try to improve the core towns too with libraries and markets. we really could use those improvements now that we're trying to research/buy things. once the barbs are gone we're gonna want to launch a war on the Inca so we need troops as well.

we should also discuss were to build the FP. the sooner it's done the better off we will be. Tours or Victos would probably be good canidates.

jb1964

Jun 23, 2004, 07:52 AM

Still comtemplating because I got called into officiate a swim meet last night.

I would like to rush a galley in city on our East coast. Any objections.

Use of workers... Most of the cities have enough improved tiles for their population. I would like to start drifting the workers south to road into that expansion.

Settlers... We have a settler in the NE. Any input as to where to settle? We could put him on the hill on the coast or send him out onto the peninsula to get the whale and fill in the gap later. There is space in the NW between us and the Inca for about one more city. We could fill it in as a buffer against out iron town in that region or concentrate on sending settlers to the south. I can go either way.

We have a temple building on the NW coast (sorry, doing this from memory so I don't remember the city names) and I'm contemplating turning that build into a settler. Objections?

My in-laws are in town so I'll play out my turns this evening and post by tomorrow morning. I probably won't take detailed notes but just record major events.

grahamiam

Jun 23, 2004, 11:07 AM

i think the changes look fine. however, I ran into 5 barb galleys on our SE coast so you may need to build more than 1 to survive. since we can't flip in this game, i think the temple can be changed unless we're trying to pinch a resourse.

as for settling, best to try to fill our eastern flank. lots of desert there so pick carefully.

RowAndLive

Jun 23, 2004, 01:34 PM

Interesting game all. After reading through all of it, I'm glad to see that you guys finally got to talking through your different styles. It still looks to be fairly early, with lots left to do.

I'll remain a lurker, but I do have C3C on order, and would like to join once I get it up and running. That should be ~July 5th, depending on Amazon & UPS. Of course, this game may be over by then...

jb1964

Jun 23, 2004, 05:02 PM

No pre-flight
Turn 1, 370AD...Turn 10, 460AD <Awaiting a <CR>>

We have a trade agreement w/ the Inca (2 lux for 40g and 1 lux). I thought it would be prudent as the Inca have more than a few troops all over our territory. There was never a tech to be had. The good side, as noted earlier, we can trade techs to the Arabs and Iriquois when it comes time to war with the Inca.

We have 4 galleys. Didn't loose (thanks for the tip that more than a few were lurking the waters) any but didn't get them into contact with any other civs. Barb galleys like to chase 'em. A nice way to lure them away from other locations. Picked off three and saw the Inca sink 4 more.

The Inca have about a half dozen settlers trying to make it to our south. I put up a wall of units in the NE to frustrate settlers and escorts. It's not much in the way of territory but it was fun to see them running around.

We have more of everything: libraries, markets, workers, settlers, etc. We founded 4 cities, laid roads, irrigated, mined and chopped.

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/GGF3_460_AD.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/french.jpg

Gogf

Jun 23, 2004, 07:11 PM

grahamiam

Jun 23, 2004, 11:23 PM

got it. will probably play and post Thursday night or Friday.

jb1964

Jun 24, 2004, 08:50 AM

Additional thoughts...

Research
Even though the Inca continue to lead us by a couple of techs they are not pulling away that's transparent to us. Would the AI make a dash to MilTrad? We could assume this is a worst case scenario and plan our war accordingly.

[Edit: If the Incas are going for MT then :lol: ! They don't have horses.]

Both the Iriquois and Arabs continue to lag us in research and manage to stay dirt poor. As the libraries come on line, coupled with our commercial trait, we'll do just fine. :cool:

Territory
The more I look at the map the more please I am with our expansion phase. We have some very nice territory and will own the bulk of this landmass in the next 20-30 turns. In contrast to us are the Inca. They seem to have been blessed with a good portion of swamp, mountains and desert. Maybe they'll find some hobbits treking about. :lol:

Military
The Inca are building some pikes but I'm not seeing any MI. They don't have horses! :D

We have a good mixture of forces and the AC's are a blessing. Congrats to the rest of the team for seeing the value in SoZ. :goodjob: The one thing we are missing is arty. We'll be at war with the Inca prior to Invention so we should settle for catapults rather than to look and build trebuchets directly. If I had to pay to upgrade any units I would look to upgrade our horses to knights before going warrior to MI. Once Fuedalism is done we'll need pikes (and cats) in the boarder cities to repulse the Inca counter-attack.

The Inca have forces all over our territory that have been barb hunting. It would be nice to jump the Inca now while their troops are divided and far from home but I don't think we are ready. Our forces should start shepparding them out. At the very least we can escort them with a reaction force should they decide to backstab us.

I left the forces rather scattered. Sorry about that one.

Culture
I'm too much of a warmonger to care.

I'll post more random thoughts after some more coffee.

grahamiam

Jun 24, 2004, 09:15 AM

jb1964

Jun 24, 2004, 09:23 AM

It's a slow day at work.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/french2_dot1.jpg

jb1964

Jun 24, 2004, 09:50 AM

re: research... do we have chivalry yet? what exactly are we researching at this time? did we miss an opportunity to trade for Fuedalism and/or engineering? i did not see any notes from gogf or jb in the logs about trades or tech's.

re: war... if we have enough knights, we don't need cat's. cat's will slow us down and pikes aren't really that scary. first MGL makes a knight army, then we pop the pike on top with it and the rest kills the spears or swords under it. we really should start on them as soon as we get 8-10 knights online.

We just finished Monothesim and we're researching Fuedalism now. Chivalry could be (should be :) ) next. The only tech trade options for some time have been with the Inca. And they have been unwilling to part with any tech (Republic, Fued, Mono). I experimented with gold, horses and luxes and they just wouldn't budge. The other two Civs are stupid and broke (and ugly IMO). Our Science Advisor says we're advanced.

Knights could make up one attacking force with cats, pike, MI, swords, archers, etc. making up the other(s). If we don't have enough to support another front in the war, which we should, then I would like to have cats on the boarder cities with fortified pikes. The arches and swords can kill the redlined units.

jb1964

Jun 24, 2004, 10:11 AM

OK, after Chivalry we make/upgrade 8+ knights ASAP. The Inca do not have horses so we are at a distinct advantage. We might want to reinforce our horse territories to make sure the Inca stay horse-less.

3-5 Pairs of AC can be placed in the E, S and W to react to any landings. There are too many cities to protect individually. And if we leave a coastal city weak, which we'll almost have to do, the AI will know it and send one or two lame units over at a time to be appropriately dispatched. We wouldn't want to disasspoint.

The Inca are likely to keep sending settlers across our land so we can demand they leave and goad them into declaring. If they don't then we declare outright and attack.

Someone propose a goal and attack route for the knights. I do want a second force lumbering through thier territory chewing up units and pillaging.

Are we going to capture or raze the cities? With flip turned off capture seems like a no brainer.

grahamiam

Jun 24, 2004, 10:18 AM

The Inca are likely to keep sending settlers across our land so we can demand they leave and goad them into declaring. If they don't then we declare outright and attack.

Someone propose a goal and attack route for the knights. I do want a second force lumbering through thier territory chewing up units and pillaging.

Are we going to capture or raze the cities? With flip turned off capture seems like a no brainer.
pillaging is only necessary if we are outclassed. otherwise, it just slows down the fast units once cities are captured by removing the roads.

i'll look at the save tonight and maybe propose the route. i have a feeling CB will have strong opinions on how this should go down :)

jb1964

Jun 24, 2004, 12:15 PM

pillaging is only necessary if we are outclassed. otherwise, it just slows down the fast units once cities are captured by removing the roads.

i'll look at the save tonight and maybe propose the route. i have a feeling CB will have strong opinions on how this should go down :)

I agree completely. I'm not proposing that the fast movers be teamed with the rest. I'm proposing two forces. The knights (pronounced ka-nig-its) and the rest (a slow moving SoD).

Aside:
This "back and forth" is exactly why I got involved in SG's. Building off of other's execution and ideas has been great fun and very helpful. And again, I think the expansion phase of this game was executed brilliantly. I played a solo game over the past few weeks and won my earliest domination victory to date. My sons think I'm a genius. I'll let them figure out the truth for themselves. :p

grahamiam

Jun 24, 2004, 12:27 PM

I agree completely. I'm not proposing that the fast movers be teamed with the rest. I'm proposing two forces. The knights (pronounced ka-nig-its) and the rest (a slow moving SoD).

i understood that 2 seperate forces were proposed, i just don't like to pillage unless i'm outclassed and right now we are by no means outclassed :) maybe disconnect the iron quickly or something like that but to try to pillage squares to bring the Inca to thier knees in unnecessary as our units will do that quickly enough. even a stack of swords can do ok against pikes.

any chance meeting someone else or are all the galleys getting chewed up via barb's?

jb1964

Jun 24, 2004, 01:56 PM

Ok, scratch the pillaging and go for the cities.

We didn't loose a galley because I'm a chicken. I got them to chase the ships into port and then we attacked the stacks from there and healed in shelter. The Inca did the world a favor and took out at least 4 barb galleys.

I would keep playing cat and mouse with the barb stacks until we can pick them off and circumnavigate our continent looking for a passage and more contacts. At minimum we can find an agreeable site from which to launch a suicide galley.

grahamiam

Jun 24, 2004, 02:25 PM

ok, just wanted to be clear.

where are the Inca killing the barbs? SE coast or the West coast?

jb1964

Jun 24, 2004, 03:04 PM

The skirmishes were on the East coast in the area of the whale. Just north of the point above our NE desert.

grahamiam

Jun 24, 2004, 07:40 PM

i'm up in 3 tonight (including this one) so this one has to wait since cb can't take it till the weekend. i'd like to give this my full attention as we're at the point in the game were we need to make our move.

jb1964

Jun 25, 2004, 09:17 AM

I fully agree. We're on the cusp of finish out our expansion, building up core city improvements, upgrading our land, and researching the last techs to give us the military units we'll use to subjugate the vile Inca.

I’m still pumped about our land vs. the Inca and escorting them back across their boarders. Reinforcing our boarder cities, establishing reaction forces and forming up our troops while planning the lines of attack is going to be a blast over the next round of turns.

Commander Bello

Jun 25, 2004, 12:53 PM

Hi, guys!

Looks quite good, from what I've seen right now.
I'm going to pick up the save tomorrow, as I'm rather tired after a whole week at Switzerland and 450 miles driving today.

grahamiam

Jun 25, 2004, 01:05 PM

Hi, guys!

Looks quite good, from what I've seen right now.
I'm going to pick up the save tomorrow, as I'm rather tired after a whole week at Switzerland and 450 miles driving today.
ok, i'll play and post tonight so it's ready when you are. shouldn't be much of a problem to do.

grahamiam

Jun 25, 2004, 10:18 PM

Preflight check: Lot’s of cat builds right now. Change some core towns (Besancon, Orleans, Chartres) to Libraries. All these towns are low in Pop so they probably were making workers and settlers. We have a wall of units on the East coast and I do not know what the heck they are supposed to be doing (no settlers in the area). Looks like we settled the area so I pull the units out as best as I can. I will leave 3 swords for the East coast Inca town. MM a couple of towns to spur growth or shave off a turn or 2 on builds

IBT: Inca troops mill around. Theres an Inca settler/pike pair on our turf; Marseilles market -> barracks (fire scientist and work the mined hill)

T1: 470AD Move some workers and units around. Dismantling the wall to the East.

IBT: Avingnon worker -> market; Rouen riots so I hire a taxman; Grenoble settler -> settler; Cherbourg worker -> galley; galley survives barb attack

T2: 480AD Moving again, really just working the tiles; galleys are starting to run away from the barb galleys so hopefully we can meet someone new.

IBT: SoZ makes an AC; Rheims cat -> settler

T3: 490AD

IBT: Rouen temple -> lib; Poiters Lib -> market

T4: 500AD More of the same. Inca have pikes everywhere so we really need chivalry to get at them

IBT: Paris Library -> barracks; Marseillis barracks -> horseman

T5: 510AD Found New Paris on top of southern horses -> library; Found New Orleans next to southern iron -> temple

IBT: Tours horseman -> library; Inca kindly kill only 1 BW in BV, leaving me one left for our AC

T6: 520AD Found New Lyons -> Library; AC captures BV netting us 25 big ones; Found New Rhiems -> library

T7: 530AD Increase sci slider to take a turn off Fued (due in 7T, -3gpt)

IBT: Arabia declares war on the Celts; SoZ makes an AC; Lyons Library -> horseman; Marsellis horseman -> horseman; Grenoble riots (damn)

T8: 540AD more moving around

IBT: Paris barracks -> horseman; Rheims settler -> settler; Forest City worker -> Library

T9: 550AD Contact the Celts and they are as backwards as the Arabs. Figures they would be at war then. Even worse, they are broke.

IBT: Amiens cat -> barracks; Toulouse library -> market

T10: 560AD Setter is moving SW to the tundra coast tile between the cow and the game. 1 Suicide galley is sent from Inca territory as it was going to be caught by a barb galley.

I really do not like all the Inca units in our land. I’m not sure what they’re going to do once the BV’s dry up. Please track those stacks carefully and don’t let them get next to an undefended town (I actually left New Paris undefended but that’s a settler/pike pair next to it so probably no biggie.

Fued due in 3, then on to Chivarly. Libraries are coming online quickly now. A few more core cities will be done soon an all those river towns will start to pay off :) It would be best to meet the other continent 1st as they seem to be more advanced based on the wonders built.

I left a stack of swords and AC’s poised to strike Vitcos if they do attack. I suggest adding a cat or 2 from one of the cities as it’s a size 10 atm. I’m building some spears to help with all our undefended towns and to relieve the AC’s pulling MP duty.

Good luck :thumbsup:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/ggf3-560AD.JPG

grahamiam

Jun 27, 2004, 07:48 AM

Sorry guys, I'm going to have to drop out :(. I leave for four weeks at the crack of dawn tommorow. I'll find out how it turned out though!
gogf posted this in MIC2 so now we're back to 3. :crazyeye:

Roster
<open>
jb1964 <-on deck
grahamiam <- just played
Commander Bello <- UP
<open> ??? RowAndLive @ 7/5?

Commander Bello

Jun 27, 2004, 08:00 AM

Sorry, guys, I'm currently working for my company at the second line. If you don't see any further posting from me prior to Sunday, 27th, 24:00 GMT (should be EST + 7), please skip me.

jb1964

Jun 27, 2004, 09:14 PM

Gram,

The wall of units was to re-rout some Inca troops some time ago.

I agree that all the Inca troops on our soil is unsettling. We need to start escourting them out.

Looks like we might be down to two palyers for a time.

Good set of turns.

grahamiam

Jun 27, 2004, 10:20 PM

@jb -> sorry, didn't read your post thoroughly and missed your note regarding the wall. ok, since it just you and me till next weekend, why don't you play this week when convenient and then I'll play again before the weekend, letting cb get his turns in and then, maybe, R&L will join after the weekend.

jb1964

Jun 28, 2004, 10:47 AM

I'll play tonight since we're having company arive Tuesday. I also have swim meets on Tuesday and Thursday and will be going over life saving techniques with my boy scouts on Wed. It's going to be a heck of a week. :)

grahamiam

Jun 28, 2004, 11:03 AM

ahhh, summer swim meet schedule... brings me back to my youth :)

jb1964

Jun 28, 2004, 02:45 PM

I'm an official and the starter at our club and my wife run concessions at the meets. All three of our kids swim and two of them are on the dive team. Summers are busy for us but not too bad because we're all headed in the same direction.

I was on a team for one day when I was 12. After drinking a good portion of the pool I decided to stick with basketball.

Got it.

jb1964

Jun 28, 2004, 07:46 PM

The Save, Turn 181, 660AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/GGF3_660AD.SAV)

Celts and Arabs are at war and remain that way for all 10 turns.

Turns 1-3
Move troops into position to keep close tabs on Inca troops wandering our land. Continue to scout around w/ galleys and will for all 10 turns. Feud comes in and we head for Chivalry and will get it in 13 turns at near break even spending.
Turn 4, 600AD – Negotiated luxury per turn deals w/ Celts (5gpt), Arabs (4gpt) and Inca (15gpt). The Inca deal was a renegotiation that had turned old. Couldn't get any techs. At the end of this deal we should have quite a force together.
Turn 5, Unmemorable
Turn 6, The Inca have Chivalry. We’ll have it in 5 turns with the added income.
Turns 7-10 Inca founded New Tiwanaku at our souther tip. We founded Cincinnati, NoBarbsHere, South of France, Whaleville, and Phoenix.

We chopped, roaded, irrigated and mined. On the weekends we danced. The cities made a balance of units and infrastructure. Nothing was rushed.

The Inca troops split up with about half headed home and the other half (swords, scouts, archers) heading towards New Tiwanaku.

Compared to the Inca our military is average. Compared to the other 4 we are strong. 14 turns left on our deal w/ the Inca.

grahamiam

Jun 28, 2004, 08:50 PM

Compared to the Inca our military is average. Compared to the other 4 we are strong. 14 turns left on our deal w/ the Inca.

that will change once we upgrade to knights :) nice job keeping the Inca sneak attack at bay (as well as this game going) :goodjob: I will play before the end of this week.

jb1964

Jun 29, 2004, 04:56 PM

Important point, The Inca are building Copernicus. So they have taken the upper research branch much farther. Let's continue on the lower branch and then extort their techs from them once we start crushing them.

Just looking at the two territories we should already be able to out produce the Inca. Without horses the best they can do is pikes and MI. The pikes will just hold off the inevitable against the knight and the MI (and swords, archers, scouts, etc.) we can wipe out in open ground w/ AC's and our slow movers.

The riders can head up the gut starting w/ Victos and the stack of slow movers w/ cats/trebs can swing over to the West and get the diamonds. Our people are getting a bit cranky about the crowding.

[Editted for clarity]

grahamiam

Jul 01, 2004, 11:33 PM

Preflight check: Chivalry due in 1T so I back off a couple of builds so I can switch to knights next turn. Suicide galley seems to be looking for the N pole :lol: hope he makes it :)

IBT: Chivalry -> engineering (70%, 10T, +18gpt)

T1: 670AD Spend 240g upgrading 2 knights; Switch 3 MDI builds to knights and switch another MDI build to barracks. We have a silly amount of units in the south for that 1 town so I move some AC’s up north to get into better position.

T2: 680AD

T3: 690AD north pole galley dies at sea

T4: 700AD Sign RoP with Iroquois

T5: 710AD Send out another suicide galley East of New Cuzco

T6: 720AD Suicide galley sees coastal border of another civ but will need next turn to get there.

T7: 730AD Suicide galley is still in a sea tile but can see a Sumerian worker!. They are up Republic, Engineering, and Theology

IBT: Mayan are building Bach’s.

T8: 740AD We meet a Mayan galley. Galley heads south accidently (misclick)

T9: 750AD Trade the Celts Currency and Construction for 1gpt, 7g and dyes. Galley heads N to where the other civ’s will be.

IBT: Engineering -> Invention (9T@70%)

T10: 760AD Our adventurous galley sees a green border.

We currently have 6 knights, 17AC and swords, a few MDI, etc. and we are average compared to the Inca so anytime is go time. We are up Engineering on the Inca so I suggest we keep that advantage for the war although we could get a pretty good deal for it. Nah, we need to wipe out the Inca and we can do it right now. Let's stop fooling around and get on with this :)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/ggf3-760ad.JPG

Roster
<open>
jb1964 <-on deck
grahamiam <- just played
Commander Bello <- UP
<open> ??? RowAndLive @ 7/5?

jb1964

Jul 02, 2004, 09:33 AM

Good job. Glad we're making contact w/ the other civs.

I think all the units in the south followed a stack of Inca troops towards their southern town. I agree it's go time. Just be careful we don't get a nasty surprise from behind.

With knights and AC the Inca are doomed. Stick w/ the plan to build 8-16 (I think) before the initial attack.

If they're still wandering our territory tell them to get the hell out and see if we can get them to declare on us.

grahamiam

Jul 02, 2004, 09:56 AM

I think all the units in the south followed a stack of Inca troops towards their southern town. I agree it's go time. Just be careful we don't get a nasty surprise from behind.

i left enough units down there to deal with them if we are careful. as far as knight qty, we are at 6 and can upgrade 1 horse right away. 4 other towns are building them so we should get that many more in 5 to 7 turns. the table is almost set... the only thing I was unable to do was get all the flatfoots situated in the NW. We should make taking that gems city a priority.

imho, 1st MGL goes towards a knight army. we also need to decide where we want to put the FP as we really need it right now. i prefer the river cities to the SE or E of Paris.

jb1964

Jul 02, 2004, 12:40 PM

Ah yes, the FP. Totally forgot about that one. What is the affect of FP in C3C on corruption?

I got on some fellow teammates in another SG for builing it one city over from the capitol. This was the response.

Originally Posted by jb1964
FP is being built far too close to the capitol. But with nothing to switch production over to I’ll leave it as is. Was the plan to jump the palace?

Remember that in C3C the FP affects OCN and rank corruption and has minimal effect on distance corruption. Getting it built early, even if close to the capital guarantees two virtually corruption-free cities for the rest of the game.

If that's the case then I don't care where we build it. :)

So, we have the fast movers just about set and forces moving to NW. Totally agree w/ attack plans. Up the middle w/ riders and Gem City w/ the ground pounders. First MGL makes an Army.

grahamiam

Jul 02, 2004, 01:10 PM

while that statement mostly true, the FP does in fact lower distance corruption of all the cities around it. it's effect on rank are much less so cities with very high rank corruption won't benifit from it being close. therefore, usually, i like to stick it in a moderately corrupt city (30-40%) in the direction we are expanding or in a direction where we have a lot of cities nearby with potential. imho, the best rules of thumb are early (pre 0AD if possible) and not too far from the palace that the city can't build it without an MGL (usually distances below 12 from the palace). however, every game is different and, like this game, you can't always meet both.

edit: go here http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=76619 to have all your corruption questions answered. don't trust anyone on this subject but alexman (including firaxis :) )

RowAndLive

Jul 06, 2004, 11:24 AM

grahamiam

Jul 06, 2004, 11:30 AM

Unless CB played over the weekend (but I don't see a "got it"), then he's up. Failing that, then I'm up. I still haven't attempted to unpatch, but should be able to do so in the next day or 2 (I'm also up in DD01). I should be able to play it through by late Friday night.

(Incidentally, even though I'm currently in 1.22, I get an error when trying to load COTM 02, any thoughts?)
if you want it, you can take it. jb and i have ping-ponged this a couple of times now so someone besides us should take it. just keep building up our knights and position fast units to run up the Inca's gut and slow movers to hike up the hills.
be wary of the large number of units to our S in thier 1 town down there. I don't expect much from thier towns to the East as I haven't seen much movement. However, upgrading a sword or 2 on that side to MDI will help keep Rhiems safe. i'm hoping that the run up the gut will divert all thier resourses that way, leaving most of the rest of our cities safe.

regarding cotm02, i've played to 10BC without an issue. no mod's or anything required.

jb1964

Jul 06, 2004, 02:45 PM

I'm running both 1.15 and 1.22 versions at the moment so if you have any questions feel free to ask.

I predict that the next player will get the honor of demanding the removal of Inca forces from our land and the subsequent declaration of war. If you have the cash take a look at the garrison sitting in your first target. You'll want to bring enough fast movers to take it and then run in a pike or three once you own the roads.

Get the gems soon. I need them to adjust my wife's lux slider. :p

Go get 'em Tiger!

RowAndLive

Jul 07, 2004, 09:45 AM

grahamiam

Jul 07, 2004, 09:50 AM

I ended up uninstalling all of C3C, since I couldn't uninstall the 1.22 patch only. Then I re-installed, and patched to 1.15. I didn't seem to have any problems, so we'll have to see.

I mentioned Friday yesterday, but I'll probably not post before Saturday.
if you want to do a dual install, then just copy your 1.15b directory to a safe place and install 1.22f in your current directory. Then make desktop shortcut links to your 1.15b directory executable. works like a charm and shouldn't take up too much room.

RowAndLive

Jul 07, 2004, 01:13 PM

I'll try that - I should have plenty of room.

CB, you have first rights to this before I start. I'm up in DD01, and on deck in SGOTM2 for the final turn push, so I have no problem picking it up after you do.
Please post your intentions. As mentioned, I won't get to this for a few days.

jb1964

Jul 08, 2004, 01:22 PM

Is this the current Roster?

jb1964
grahamiam
RowAndLive <= UP
Commander Bello <= On Deck

grahamiam

Jul 08, 2004, 04:23 PM

Is this the current Roster?

looks fine to me :)

jb1964

Jul 09, 2004, 11:20 PM

I think CB is still out.

RowAndLive

Jul 11, 2004, 08:40 AM

Will pick it up now, but not be able to play until tomorrow (Monday) night.

RowAndLive

Jul 13, 2004, 09:28 AM

Sorry gang, I'm off by a week here. Still no word from CB? I'm going to try and take care of Zarth's PTW tonight and tomorrow, and then this one by Friday night. By then I should be up in SGOTM3 and DD01...

RowAndLive

Jul 14, 2004, 07:22 AM

:sad: Although I regret having to do this, it has become apparent that I am not going to be able to participate in this game, simply for lack of time, and enthusiastic over-committment to playing Civ. RL is simply not going to permit the time, given my new work schedule, an upcoming professional exam which must be studied for, my familial responsibilities, etc.

As such, I really must apologize for delaying this game by yet another week, and not realizing my predicament sooner. Thank you for being willing to take me on to begin with, and I hope to see you in one of the other, fewer, SGs that I will be participating in. Good Luck with France!!!

jb1964

Jul 14, 2004, 10:48 AM

Grahamiam, it's you and me bud.

grahamiam

Jul 14, 2004, 10:59 AM

Grahamiam, it's you and me bud.
since the 2 of us have played 8 of the last 10 sets, it's been that way for quite some time. :(

i guess you might as well take it if you can. hopefully, cb will reappear but it's been almost 2 weeks since his last post.

jb1964

Jul 14, 2004, 12:08 PM

I messaged another player looking for a spot in another game to see if this one might interest him.

I'll play the next set as I'm dying to kick the snot out of the Inca.

grahamiam

Jul 14, 2004, 12:14 PM

if the new player needs to do it in 1.22f, i will have no problem switching.

jb1964

Jul 14, 2004, 07:54 PM

Mind if we stretch the number of turns played to 15 or 20?

BTW, we should build the FP

grahamiam

Jul 14, 2004, 08:04 PM

Mind if we stretch the number of turns played to 15 or 20?i don't mind, just focus on knights, not catapults :lol:

jb1964

Jul 15, 2004, 08:48 PM

We have our war and it goes well.
- Pikes break under knights and MI die to all sorts of attacks.

The Save, 900 AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/GGF3_900AD.SAV)

Pre-flight: Much to do. I’m going to take Gahamians advice and build up the knights for the attack up the middle. I’ll send what foot soldiers we can w/ cats after the diamonds. We’re getting silk from the Inca so we’ll probably have to push the lux slider up before this is all over.

I’m going to build the FP in Avignon. It has a nice group of cities around it that cold use the reduction in corruptions and it will be done in a reasonalble amount of time. It won’t be finished by the time I’m done w/ this set so it’s up for input.

If a city has a barracks it’s making military. If not, MP’s. We can get along w/ one MP in a size six city. Cities that can grow to 12 must be watched.
Hurry courthouse in Toulous. Too many shields to switch to an MP unit or build a barracks.
Hurry barracks in Poitiers
Pulling back research to 50% which brings in Invention in 12 turns.
Grenoble switches library to barracks. We loose 4 sheilds.

Battle zones…
NW - The fight for gems;
S - Clear our southern boarder of 2 swords, 6 archer, scout and a warrior.
CM (Center Middle) – That’s where well get a counter attack over the mountains.
Victos – Well, the battle for Victos J

24 workers – Goals: chops and minimal over development. Will pump out a workers from bigger cities that are getting grumpy.

F1 – make ‘em smile. F2, F4 – no deals to be had.
Sumeria and Maya are up Rep, Theo & Invention. Inca up Rep and Theo but don’t have Eng. Not going to trade ‘em.
We’re moderately advanced. That’ll get worse before it gets better.

IBT: Nothing
Turn 1: 192, 770 AD
Rouen, barracks to knight; Grenoble, barracks to worker; Dijon MI to pike; Cherbourg, galley to worker; Poitiers, barrack to knight; Toulouse, courthouse to archer; Bayonne, archer to archer; New Paris, pike to worker; New Orleans, spear to spear; New Rheims, something to archer; NoBarbsHere, archer to worker.

IBT: Barb galley runs towards galley out of Cherbourg

Turn 2: 193, 780 AD
Amiens, pike to treb; Breast, barracks to MI; Bordeaux barracks to MI, New tours, archer to archer. Troop movement, roads and chops.
Invention in 9 turns
F1 - Everyone’s happy.
F2, F4 – No deals but the Arabs are saving a bit of cash.

IBT: We meet the Aztecs. They’re clones of the Maya and Sumerians. Barb galleys pulling w/i range of NW cats.

Turn 3, 194, 790 AD
Paris, knight to knight; AC pops; Lyons, knight to knight; Strausbourg, pike to pike.
4 for 4 on the barb galleys bombards. :)
Move swords into mountains over NE cities.
Upgrade horse to knight for 120g. Ouch. One more horse to go.
Road and chop.

IBT: Accidentally hit spacebar and didn’t make checks but nothing happened.

Turn 4, 195, 800AD
Rhiems, archer to treb; Marseilles, knight to knight; Grenoble, worker to treb
Galley dies to a 1hp barb galley! :mad:
Pompei switches to treb because they’re going to get a chop
8 knights, 9 AC’s, 6 cats, 3 MI, none of which are elite, near Victos. Six more knights due in the the next 6 turns. Once they are in place its throw down time! Turn 201 or 202.
Nine units in the south to combat our 10 friends. Need three more.
Push research down to 40% to increase cash for horse upgrade. Would also like to get the 50% upgrade in bombardment from cats to trebs but am unsure of the cost.
F1 – Everyone’s happy
F2, F4 – Our ivory and wine to the Inca for silks is on cruise control. I’ll call that off just before it’s time to deal death.

IBT: Ha! Spoke to soon. The Inca cancelled the deal first.

Turn 5, 196, 810 AD
Toulouse, archer to archer; Bayonne, archer to archer; Johnstown, barracks (poor choice on second thought) to archer; Bloomsberg, archer to archer; Forest city, archer to treb.
Well, Paris already has its 3 MP’s but is going to need happy gas. I turn the lux slider up to 10%. Grenoble, Strasbourg, Avignon, Lyons and Cherbourg could all use another MP.
Brennus will give 4gpt and 17g for ivory. I take it as this is the most the fool has had in a long time.
Friends to the east are still up the same visible techs. Science guys says we’re backwards. No shocker there.
MP’s headed towards Strasbourg, Lyons and Grenoble.
30g to upgrade cats. I upgrade 3 or 4.
Road to Pompei is finished so clown goes back to work as a fisherman.
F1 – All happy; F2, F4 – No deals

Arabs and Celts are still at each other’s throats. Iroquois are best suited to help attack the Inca. Hmmm, wonder if I should give ‘em horses.
Invention in 9.

IBT: Woohoo! The Inca demand horses and I decline. They back down. I demand Theology and they tell me to stuff it. Inca units headed to the front.
Pacachewme is not comfortable w/ our relationship all of a sudden. Good instincts. Celts and Arabs kiss and make up.
Volcano barfs on Inca territory. I weep.

Turn 6, 197, 820 AD
New Lyons, archer to treb.
Archer heads to Cherbourg for MP duty and defense in the NW.
Road, upgrade, reinforces, etc.
Galley swinging around east coast is going to get off’ed by barbs.
Will wait until next turn to offer goods to Abu and Hiawatha

IBT: I was wrong, the barb gallies died! Oght to rename that galley Nimitz, Trafalger, or something of the like.

Turn 7, 198, 830 AD
Dijon, pike to barracks; New Tours, archer to barracks.
Archer heads to Avignon for MP duty. Last one needed for the time being.
Pike to relieve a sword for the northern front.
Worker actions, mostly roads and a few chops
Lots of Inca pikes headed towards the gem territory. Yep, they know.
Pulling back research again to upgrade remaining cats and single horse.

IBT: Cherbourg riots. MP on its way.

Turn 8, 199, 840 AD
Didn’t record builds. Got a knight and a pike.
Abu still isn’t coming up with the cash for our ivory.

Paris, Besancon, Rouen, Marseilles and Orleans all knight to knight
Toulouse; archer to barracks; Besancon, archer to thingy; Bayonne, archer to treb.
Some knights have another turn to get to the front and I need a few more gold to upgrade the horse. D-Day looks like turn 202, 870 AD.
Abu’s still only offering 20g, 2gpt for ivory. That sucks.

IBT: Order restored in Cherbourg. Jerks.

Turn 9, 200, 850 AD

Lyons & Tours, knight to kight
Whaleville, spear to warrior

IBT: Nothing

Turn 10, 201, 860 AD
A few troop movements. Lets take a look at the Inca. We’re vulnerable in the middle but forces in NW and outside Victos can reach in time. Would like to have a reaction force but I really want to make sure and crush both objectives.
We tell Pacha to get the heck off our front porch and he capitulates. Too bad. Now we declare!

South…
We lose a vet AC and kill 2 sword, 1 scout and 3 archers. Three archers remain. We get two AC promotions to elite.

Gem…
Forces move into position against Riobamba. Riders reinforce trebs, will bomb next turn.

Victos…
5 bombards from trebs yield two hits on pikes. Peachy.
3 AC retreats to Tours to heal, no kill
2 AC dies
5 AC pike kills, units retreat to Tours to heal

Knight retreats to Tours to heal
3 Knight kills pike, retreats to Tours to heal
Knight kills pike, flawless
Knight slaughters scout, takes 3 settlers hostage and occupies Victos!
Zero promotions. :confused:

Position 4 knights in mountains above Marseilles to prevent easy route for Inca archers approaching iron. Shores look secure but weak. Thus is our risk for the time being.

Almost forgot to invite the Iroquois to the party. They agree for some wines. I’ll look at selling them horses next turn.

Could make the next city target Ica and slowly make a path into Pacachewme's territory or could move through unimproved land with riders and pick off those that come to great us along the way. We’ll hold the center middle for now and decide once south is secure, NW is under siege, by us, and center middle has been cleaned out of counter-attack units.

With 12 units healing in Tours, 3 knights & 3MI garrisoned at Victos soon to be joined by an AC, knight and 5 trebs I’ll send the remaining knights to the center middle and play a little to the west to react to any strong counter attack in the NW. Now, lets see what the Inca can muster. My bet is a boatload of MI.

I seem to have lost a luxury. (Turns out I lost the sea route when war was declared.) Towns are going to riot if I don’t push lux to 20%. Need to keep researching Invention as we’ll not be able to extort it from the Inca. 40/20 split has Invention in 5 with near breakeven cash flow.

IBT: As expected Inca troops are moving into the middle to a little place I like to call the killing zone. Archers in south turn away and head to attack “South of France”. They will never make it or see home again.

Turn 11, 202, 870 AD
Brest, MI to MI; New Marseilles, archer to courthouse
Poitiers, Cherbourg, and Cincinnati are rioting. I guess 20% wasn’t enough for all towns. Bad assumption on my part. should have done "eyes on" F1 check. Doh!

Three AC kill off the archers in the south. Time to swing those troops north to a barracks city for healing and then to join in against the Inca.

Knights come down from mountains north of Marseilles to kill two archers and a warrior. Again, no losses and no promotions.
Knight attacks and kills archer in mountains to support Poitiers. Three more knights follow. MI and warrior in mountains above Poitiers are going to get attacked but better there than down on the plains in the town. Bringing over pike from iron to garrison Poitiers. Iron is safe and still guarded.
Sword from Rennes steps out to kill a foolish archer in the desert. His blood runs into the sand and buzzards circle overhead. Makes me think that units that get encircled and are outnumbered and/or outclassed have the option of surrender.

Knights are in the queue but are coming in slowly. Must conserve the ones we have. Keep pinging w/ arty and luring units into open without allowing for counter attack.

Gems…
Forces kill off two pikes and an MI at the loss of an archer. 2hp pike left standing on Riobamba

Invention in 3. (Turns and events got jumbled but this is close.)

IBT: MI and warrior in mountains take out archer, sword and warrior. They do fall leaving two redlined swords in their wake. One sword advances w/ pike escort to mountains over Poitiers. We wont give him the chance to heal to reinforce.

Turn 12, 203, 880 AD
Builds, workers, etc.
Knight takes out pike in mountains north of Poitiers and promotes. Finally!
Massive attack force moves out of Victos into the desert. No enemy units near and we’re off the road. We have the option of bearing NNE to kill Ica or continue N towards the Incan capitol.

IBT: We meet Jerksies. He’s not happy about our wandering galley. Persia up Theo, Invention, Republic. MI and sword take out two of our AC near gem battle. Sword dies to our pike in the mountains above Poitiers.

Turn 13, 204, 890 AD
Builds, workers, etc.
Forces move on Ica.
Elite archer attacks Rioamba and creates our first GL! :beer: It’s army time. Forces w/ trebs up by Riobamba are very shabby at this point. The knights need to get there last turn.
We sell Abu ivory for a ridiculously low price (2gpt) but that’s all we’re going to get out of him as his price has been dropping as his treasury has been rising.

IBT: We lose two AC in the interim. There are many red troops running about. Invention comes in and I set research at 40% for Gunpowder in 12 turns.

Turn 14, 205, 900 AD
(Last turn as this seems like a nice place to jump off.)
Paris, Marseilles build knights to knights; Dijon, barracks to knight
Cherbourg is rioting again.

Knight army created. After bombard army takes out two pikes at Riobamba.

Regular sword kills MI north of Victos.
We attack and take Ica. No losses, no promotions.
Three Knights head into the mountains around Ica to scout the situation
AC’s attack and kill 2 MI near Vilcabamba.

Summary: We have our war w/ the Inca and are kicking the snot out of ‘em! Military advisor says we're strong compared to all but Sumerians.

The Save, 900 AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/GGF3_900AD.SAV)