When exactly was the birth of propaganda? I know it was instrumental in both Hitler's and Napoleon's reigns, but I'm sure it's been around before. I'm not much on history yet, although I'm very interested, and this is something that's been teasing my brain for a while.

Egyptian Kings put it all over their tombs. But I'm sure that Sumerians started it right after they invented writing about 3000 BC.

Propoganda is as old as mankind IMO. ;)

Though as a 'science' it probably comes about only recently. Goebbels?

IMO it was reinvented (and made an artform) recently. Some of the best propaganda you'll ever see is that of Ramesses II of Egypt.

Originally posted by Mongoloid Cow
IMO it was reinvented (and made an artform) recently. Some of the best propaganda you'll ever see is that of Ramesses II of Egypt.

Well, back then, nobody was educated, so they were pretty gullible..

Hitler was good at it.

Originally posted by kmad
Well, back then, nobody was educated, so they were pretty gullible..


I don't think education is part of it. Every day we hear propaganda and if it's friendly towards our country or interests then we believe it.

That's why propaganda's been integrated into our schooling. They call it indoctrination..

Originally posted by kmad
Well, back then, nobody was educated, so they were pretty gullible..

People today are still falling for it. No, I believe he had some of the most successful propaganda.

Propaganda has had to evolve over time

it made a huge leap in WW2 with that "helping your country" jizz in America.. that mentality's stuck around to this day

Propaganda has been with us ever since man discovered writing. Even the "Epic of Gilgamesh" can be used as propaganda by the say, Sumerians. What better way for a ruler to control the loyalty of his people?

We have better, more pervasive technology today (20th C) that makes propganda more efficient. We are not very different than the ancient Egyptians.

first (self-) propaganders?
maybe:

Ramses II
Darius I of Persia
Delphoi oracle
Perikles of Athenai

later it became more and more massive... ;)
too many peoples...

Welcome to the forums Gagliaudo!

Originally posted by kmad
When exactly was the birth of propaganda?I imagine it went something like this:

Caveman Bob: Uga-uga, me beat Billy with club!
Caveman Joe: Uh muga muga, why?
Caveman Bob: You doubt me? Right thing to do, it is! Join me, out of love of BobLand!
Caveman Joe: [nodding head in approval] Yuuuuuuggghhh!

Details are sketchy, though.

The Romans were pretty good at propoganda as well, they did a fantastic job on blackening the name of Carthage-to the point that much of the modern 'knowledge' of Carthage is based on Roman propganda rather than actual historical fact or science.

I suspect that the Roman's were probably the first to use propaganda on a vast scale to frighten their enemies or at least enhance their own reputation.

@WillJ: :lol: :lol: :lol: :goodjob:

@Birdjaguar:
Thanks ! :) ;)

Propaganda techniques:

1. Name-calling (union bosses instead of labor leaders, capitalist cliques instead of constitutional govs)
2. Glittering generality ("the free world" instead of the west, "socialist solidarity", "the african soul"
3. Transfer (glueing different ideas/items together, such as "communist Jews")
4. "Plain-folks"-talking. Try to propagate your message in the same 'language' your targets speaks in
5. Testimonial. Use a respected person to propate for you
6. Selection. Tell your target about those facts that fit your case
7. Bandwagon. "all sensible people know that..." Imply that target is in minority when thinking otherwise. This technique is widely used in totalitarian nations (recent polls have shown that 100% of the Cubans favor socialism as a goverment form...yeah right..) but also in Europe (show lots of interviews with people who think badly about G.W. Bush and you start believing that you're insane if you don't hate him
8. Frustation scapegoat. This is used by leaders who want to stay in power as a decoy for their own failure. Think of the Jews in Nazi-Germany, or the Americans in Syria.
9. Fear. No need to explain I guess.

These examples come from a textbook so I guess I have broken some copyright laws, but what the heck...

Some concepts I noticed when watching a documentary about Joseph Göbbels:

-Combine a big lie with a small truth to encance your credibility
-Know where your propaganda limits are (Don't talk about a final victory when enemy troops are 30 miles from your capital.
-Ridicule a source in advance. So when you're afraid that your personal crappy marital life will be exposed, then order your department to produce a movie about a propaganda minister with a crappy marital life! Nobody will believe the guy who's saying it's all real...

May I add something to Fazzoletti's points?

Notice Hitler during rallies etc. Compare him to Goering. Goering wears glitzy uniforms with decorations. Hitler wore a brown, military-like uniform, with his single Iron Cross. This made him appear humble, and down to earth.
Hitler also made a point of arriving late so that the crowds would be excited and worked up.
Hitler was among the first leaders to extensively travel the land.
Hitler made great appearances in airtcraft etc.
The S.A and S.S provided an air of militarism and organisation.
Goebbels created many films.

The Bolsheviks were very good at propaganda.
Bolshevik means majority in Russian, they represented about 2% of the entire Socialist Movement in Russia.

Anybody who can take over a country like Russia with about 1% of population at the beginning of the Revolution has to be good with propaganda.

I believe the Communists in China were quite successfull with propanganda since they gained the supports of the huge numbers of peasants.

Would propaganda work again, or are people now so educated that they question what governments say.

Obviously it works in the US where they supported war on Iraq :(

It works everywhere. No one is safe. The current Administration just seems to pump out a lot more of it than usual. Nothing new, all war time Governments do it. Although some use it to start a war and others use it to keep moral up during a war while others do both.

Propaganda also needs, very importantly, a highly motivated cadre. Without this cadre, propaganda will never reach the masses as effectively. No political organization can spread propaganda without a strong cadre, who go to the villages, the town centers and the podia to spread the message to the faithful and beat up or convert the doubting to their cause.

Just begun reading Anthony Beevor's book on Berlin, the insight that gives into the workings of propaganda is amazing. In the closing months of the war it becomes obvious that Goebbels can no longer call on patriotism or Nazi glory to raise the flagging hopes of the Germans and he starts to resort to talking of fighting on because there is no alternative, pointing to the disgusting effects of Russian occupation as the other choice. It also remarks on the way that the Russians made the closing months of the war entirely about revenge on Germany over the events in Russia. Many massacres of Jews were reported in Russian news sources as simply being of "Russians" as if to inspire the soldiers to take revenge on the Germans.

It's also interesting to note that the Russians only released information on Auschwitz properly after the war rather than during it.

Everyone is talking about WWII propaganda, what about the propaganda that is going on today? For instance, alot of the poor, un-educated in the middle east falling for Al-Queda propaganda. Example: The US planned the 9/11 attach, kill an infedel and you will go to paradise surrounded by 67?? virgins when in fact the Koran is against murdering innocents... These people actually give this BS some credit... :lol:

Opposed to the rich, educated Americans falling for Bush's propaganda.

Opposed by the news media's and democrat's liberal, left wing propaganda.

What Bush propaganda? :confused: . Americans can choose for themselves
what to believe, there are enough outlets and opposing ideas to decide.

Fred, according to your definition, propaganda is nonexistant.

There's tons of propaganda going on now a days. Not just Bush, but even like the whole Kosovo thing was full of propaganda. Also it's not just governments, but almost many commercials have hints of propaganda. For example those zits remedy commercials, they propagate how horrible life is with just one zit.

Can we stick to discussing historic propoganda? Anyone interested in today's propoganda, pls start a new thread in the OT... ;)