Do rocks Burn in Circles?

The Neolithic discovery of 'magic rocks which burn' in circular South Wales Coalfield gave rise not only to Stonehenge being built, but to the Neolithic stone circles and henges built throughout Western Europe. Neolithic News Flash... Rocks Burn In Circles...

http://www.geolsoc.org.uk/photos/GowerSWcoalfield.JPG

The news of 'magic rocks which burn in circles' spread like wildfire...

Yes. Paleontologic and radiometric studies of the outermost earthwork at Stonehenge, its Counterscarp Limestone, suggest 5,000 years ago roughly 800,000 pounds (241 cubic-metres; 8,510 cubic-feet) of South Wales Coalfield periphery "Carboniferous Limestone" (see first post) were transported to Stonehenge. My studies suggest this Limestone, having identical compositions, at one time completely circled the periphery of Stonehenge Ditch, its innermost Bank, and its 56 coalfire pits (56 Aubrey Holes), in similar geologic fashion observed at South Wales Coalfield mined inside its rim where the lower coal seams rise to the surface in a 'circle'. Note the Neolithic people did not have the luxury of arial photography to determine South Wales Coalfield was not a perfect circle as we do today.

http://www.orionbeadling.net/CSCARPelev.jpg

Current* locations of the South Wales Coalfield's periphery limestone at Stonehenge:

a) 1/4 of Counterscarp Limestone is still in place (see labeled "Counterscarp" above).
b) 3/4 of Counterscarp Limestone remnants are still in place under rebuilt topsoil.
c) 56 coalfire pits (56 Aubrey Holes) coated bottom remnants are still in place.
d) Stonehenge Mound is 3/4 of relocated Counterscarp Limestone (left of "Drainage Trench).
e) Heelstone Ditch rammed in bottom-half fill is Counterscarp Limestone from Stonehenge Mound.

*Note 17th-20th Century excavations not accounted for.

Identical fossils of the South Wales Coalfield's periphery limestone at Stonehenge:

01) Aclisina
02) Aviculopecten
03) Bellerophon
04) Caninia cornucopiae
05) Chondrites
06) Cleiothyridina roissyi
07) Composita
08) Conocardium
09) Delepinea (Daviesiella) destinezi
10) Euphemites
11) Girvanella
12) Hapsiphyllum (Zaphrentis) konincki
13) Linoproductus
14) Megachonetes papilionaceous
15) Michelina grandis
16) Mourlonia
17) Murchisonia
18) Palaeosmilia
19) Plicochonetes
20) Rhipidomella michelini
21) Schellwienella cf. S. crenistria
22) Straparollus
23) Syringopora
24) Zoophycos

Merely by the paleontologic and radiometric fact that identical Carboniferous Limestone is present in such a large quantity (roughly 800,000 pounds (241 cubic-metres; 8,510 cubic-feet) at Stonehenge proves in itself that South Wales Coalfield area Neolithic peoples were indeed miners of sorts. Even the megaliths surface mined centuries after this Limestone testify to this fact. Today the South Wales Coalfield is mapped and well known. It is a very large basin which measures some 90 miles on its east-west axis and about 16 miles wide. Because of its round basin-like shape, the exposed coalfield contrasting white Carboniferous Limestone and black Carboniferous Coal forming thin outer rims having 'magic rocks which burn' were considered 'sacred' together. My 1973 published theory is inclusive of all known exposed coalfields in Western Europe where concentrations of stone circles and henges occur.

Thank you for your interest.

Further Reading:

1) Denke, G.W. 1973. Stonehenge Phase I: An Openpit Coalfield Model; The First Geologic Mining School (Indiana University of Pennsylvania) GDG, 73: 1-56.
2) Denke, G.W. 1975. Invertibrate Paleontology of the High Tor Limestone (Lower Carboniferous) and the Upper Senonian Chalk (Late Cretaceous) of Stonehenge. (Arizona State University) GDG, 75: 1-7.
3) Denke, G.W. 1977. Possible Source Areas of the High Tor Limestone (Early Mississippian) Fill of the Aubrey Holes and Heel Stone Ditch in Europe. (Arizona State University) GDG, 77: 1-24.
4) Beus, S.S. 1984. Fossil Associations in the High Tor Limestone (Lower Carboniferous) of South Wales. (Northern Arizona University) Journal of Paleontology, 58: 3; 651-667.
5) Denke, G.W. 1984. Mid-Dinantian (Waulsortian Facies) High Tor Limestone: The First Stones Transported to Stonehenge from the South Wales Coast. (Arizona State University) GDG, 84: 1-4.
6) Denke, G. 1984. Magnetic and Electromagnetic Surveys at Heelstone, Stonehenge, United Kingdom. (Indiana University of Pennsylvania) GDG, 84: 5-42.
7) Lees, A. and Miller, J. 1985. Facies variatian in Waulsortian buildups, Part 2; Mid-Dinantian buildups from Europe and North America. (Revised) Geological Journal, 20: 159-180.
8) Geologist, Denke, G. 1986. The Paleontology of Stonehenge, England. (Arizona State University) GDG, 86: 1-3.
(State of Texas, County of Stonewall, Deed Records)

Excuse me for being thick [pimp] , but could you explain this a little in
layman's terms. I am really interested in Stonehenge :confused: .

It's pure psudoscience, if you tried to explain it without all of the attending charts, diagrams and references you'd sound like a loony.

Search for some of Mr Denke's other posts about stonehenge, they're entertaining if nothing else. ;)

Is there absolutely anything, according to Mr Denke's threads, that did not cause Stonehenge to be built?

Why, evil skeptics like us Kafka.

I thought you knew that.

Excuse me for being thick [pimp] , but could you explain this a little in
layman's terms. I am really interested in Stonehenge :confused: .

South Wales Coalfield Limestone to Stonehenge tonnage/date Estimates

~400 tons from South Wales to Counterscarp in ~31st century BC
~300 tons from Stonehenge's Counterscarp to Mound in ~27th century BC
~19 tons from Stonehenge Mound to Heelstone Ditch in ~21st century BC

a) 1/4 of Counterscarp Limestone (~100 tons) is still in place (see labeled "Counterscarp" above).
b) 3/4 of Counterscarp Limestone remnants (~tstm) are still in place under rebuilt topsoil.
c) 56 coalfire pits (56 Aubrey Holes) coated bottom remnants (~tstm) are still in place.
d) *Stonehenge Mound is 3/4 of relocated Counterscarp Limestone (~281 tons) (to left of "Drainage Trench").
e) **Heelstone Ditch bottom-half rammed fill (~19 tons) is Counterscarp Limestone from Stonehenge Mound.

3/4's of the original full circle Counterscarp were used as claim markers.

*Gold, Silver, Brass artefacts in Stonehenge Mound.
**Gold, Iron artefacts under Heelstone wings carving.

it cant help if you dont give us the information on how its relevant- this site isnt an academic site dedicate to suck obsure angles of loking at the world, but we're not idiots who will take the first thing presented in a factual manner as truth either.

but then, considering all this evidence is dedicated to proving some the absurd theories of Dr. Denke, its no surprise to me at least that you have not before, nor apprentlly will at any point in the future, given your trend of actions, actually disclose how we are supposed to interpret the information, or how it is supposed to actually be relevant to stonehenge in any way shape or form, now do you give us any modern evidence, and rarelly any sources other then Dr. Denkes work as your proof.

:thanx: Xen, I still did not see any relevance. I was wondering if I was

more [pimp] than I thought. :D

Carboniferous limestone is probably the commonest rock found near the surface throughout the West Country- take the Mendip hills as an example. This means it's found much closer to Salisbury Plain than those examples located in South Wales.

If we take the Mendip Hills as an example, what properties make the Carboniferous Limestone deposits found 10 miles away from Stonehenge a less likely source than the South Wales deposits?

The geologist is back! :D

I think this new information will prove useful - http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=87707

No need to thank me

Blimey. I've just tried Google to see if I could read any more of Mr Denke's published work (listed as "further reading"). This thread's content is all over the place.

This one is my favourite-

http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3852

....if only because it's a masterclass in how not to answer a question.

Things are looking up. In trying to Google up more information on the earliest known use of coal, I've just discovered that in 1869 Dr. George Taylor invented a coal-fired, steam powered device called the "Manipulator". It was the world's first vibrator.

It's finding things like that that makes you realise what a great place the internet is. :lol:

This is my favourite GD post, "Stonehenge Phase I: An Openpit Coalfield Model", posted at fishingwarehouse.co.uk (http://www.fishingwarehouse.co.uk/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=nonfishingchat&Number=210616&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1) World class spamming.

edit: Oh yeah, he's also mentioned in a couple of places that the Ark of the Covenant is buried under stonehenge too. ;)

1) Crosskeys Coal circling Stonehenge Mound is Late Carboniferous (Pennsylvanian) Westphalian coal.
2) Millstone Grit circling Stonehenge Mound is Late Carboniferous (Pennsylvanian) Namurian sandstone.
3) Stonehenge Mound itself is Early Carboniferous (Mississippian) Arundian limestone and gold artifacts.

Westphalian Coal and Millstone Grit circle Stonehenge Mound

Neolithic stone circles, henges, barrows, and causewayed camps' of North Western Europe first purpose were as coal exploration sites, being the remains of diggings that yielded no coal. Stones were placed in the smaller test holes, the 'stone circles', because they would silt in much faster than the larger, and deeper henges, barrows, and causewayed camps having no need of markers. This is how the Stone Age miners recorded where not to dig for coal where none was previously found. No maps or coordinates were available in to them in comparison to the what explorationists use today to record dug and abandoned sites. Given the greater quantity of 'stone circles' on the landscape, in relation to the other methods, the ‘stone circling’ mining exploration technique was most popular for it required much less digging work, and time, to evaluate potential coal bearing sites. The different patterns observable today are the result of various Neolithic mining exploration techniques, being the four general types mentioned. However, at some of the 'stone circles' exploration sites, such as Avebury, the ancient miners did actually go back to re-test their prospects from time to time, digging again, being convinced that a second try would yield the much needed coal, in spite of past failure. At Avebury, for instance, evidence suggests the ancient miners went back a third time using a different technique on another go around, resulting in a henge with two 'stone circles'. But alas, no coal at the populated, energy poor, Avebury. Much later many of these prehistoric mining exploration sites were utilized for various purposes, which anthropologists and archaeologists decipher today, however no one developed a comprehensive and conclusive underlying reason for all of the unusual digging patterns in North Western Europe. This is because no anthropologist or archaeologist suggested, knew of, or presented any evidence of coal being used in the Neolithic, and coal’s actual first purpose, simple campfire fuel, was masked by limiting its first use to the smelting of metals. "The Stone Age Coal Mining Theory", based on the color difference of a black rock (coal) and a white rock (limestone) chalks in the record covering the exploration, production, and first usage of coal in North Western Europe. The first evidence that black coal was utilized in the Neolithic where both a ‘stone circle’ and henge occur was discovered in 1656 by Dr. Garry Denke at Stonehenge Mound, being 100 meters (109 feet) E-SE of the Heelstone. Black Late Carboniferous (Pennsylvanian) Westphalian Crosskeys Coal and pale-yellow Late Carboniferous (Pennsylvanian) Namurian Millstone Grit rammed in a circular ditch dug in the white Late Cretaceous (Santonian) Seaford Chalk basement outcrop of Stonehenge around a high reef-like pile of white Early Carboniferous (Arundian) High Tor Limestone had been found. Because Crosskeys black coal does not outcrop naturally at Stonehenge, its presence with pale-yellow Millstone Grit around the white High Tor Limestone chalk-like bioherm-like base situated on a seaward sloping hill suggests Stonehenge was a geologic mining school for future anthropologists and archaeologists to study rocks and their colors, built during that ancient quest for campfire fuel in energy poor North Western Europe's cold climate unforested areas. The main problem with the generally accepted 'forest clearings' theory of anthropologists and archaeologists is: When forested areas are cut down, or burned down, they grow back, and many times stronger. Stump grinders were not available in Neolithic time.


Stonehenge Mound circled by Millstone Grit and Westphalian Coal

http://homepages.enterprise.net/sisman/PHOTOs/StoneH1.jpg

(Foreground E-SE Stonehenge Mound and Background is Stonehenge)


Stonehenge Mound's Coal is from South Wales Coalfield's Crosskeys

http://www.xkeys.freeserve.co.uk/geology/coalfield.gif

(Stonehenge Altar Stone from Red, Stonehenge Mound from Blue, Stonehenge
Grit from Pale-Yellow at Rim, and Stonehenge Coal Stone from Black at Rim)


Neolithic Coalfield Quest for Campfire Coal in North Western Europe
http://www.anima.demon.co.uk/img/megalithdist.gifhttp://homepage.ntlworld.com/ross.cuthbertson/geol_sw/map%20uk%20coal.jpg
(Non-Productive Coal Stone Sites in Blue) (Productive Coal Stone Sites in Black)


Today Explorationists Just Use Maps to Record Non-Productive Sites

http://www.geo.wvu.edu/~jtoro/Petroleum/petroleum_figs/game/fig3.jpg

(Clear Circles having Quarter-circle Pegs are Non-Productive Sites)


Exposed South Wales Coalfield rim was indeed the hot play for Stone Age coal stone open-pit miners who gathered coal for campfire fuel. There are no pre-Neolithic or Neolithic stone circles, henges, barrows, or causewayed camps on or along the sides of this basin's outer rims. Why is that? The answer is there was no need to because it is on an easy to see narrow 'road' between black coal and white rock. This area could quite possibly be the original discovery area of 'old black magic' itself, the first coal ignited with a wood fuel campfire built on a coal seam by chance. There has to be some reason the white Mississippian Limestone, Old Red Sandstone, black Carboniferous Coal, and pale-yellow Pennsylvanian Grit were brought to Stonehenge from this area in South Wales, don't you think? According to the Doctor, who examined the Old Red Sandstone Altar Stone and gathered samples by pale and horse, at Stonehenge, and from along South Wales' pale-yellow Millstone Grit circular rim road, counterclockwise in 1656, with black Coal to his left, and white Lime to his right; "To find coal here," he said, "Just follow the pale 'Grit' road, follow the pale 'Grit' road, follow the pale 'Grit' road,"...

(Grit was his English horse's name, the pale hung from Grit's bridle)

Here are my doubts about this theory.

1- Stonehenge is a circle. The South Wales coal deposits aren't. We're asked to assume that the Stone Age people made a mistake and thought the deposits were circular- that's a bit of a stretch.

2- Why would the South Wales coalfields be venerated, and not the much more local coalfields in Somerset?

3- The link to South Wales is the already-disputed circle link, and the similarity in fossils found in the Carboniferous Limestone. However no evidence is presented to comment on how the Limestone is more likely to be from South Wales than from the more local deposits throughout Somerset. How can this constitute a link to South Wales?

4- Can we take it as a sign as reverence to a particular stone when the stone in question has basically been used as aggregate?

5- To the best of my knowledge, there is no evidence of any use of coal around Stonehenge. When I looked up this subject I read that the earliest known use of coal in Britain dates back to Iron Age times- much later than the henge construction.

Here are my doubts about this theory.

1- Stonehenge is a circle. The South Wales coal deposits aren't. We're asked to assume that the Stone Age people made a mistake and thought the deposits were circular- that's a bit of a stretch.
There were no airplanes in the Neolithic, unless Kafka2 can prove otherwise.



2- Why would the South Wales coalfields be venerated, and not the much more local coalfields in Somerset?
Because the elder whitestone, old red sandstone, black coalstone, and pale gritstone, even the volcanic bluestone, are from South Wales.


3- The link to South Wales is the already-disputed circle link, and the similarity in fossils found in the Carboniferous Limestone. However no evidence is presented to comment on how the Limestone is more likely to be from South Wales than from the more local deposits throughout Somerset. How can this constitute a link to South Wales?
The Waulsortian lime mud mound facies of South Wales is not present at Somerset. There are outcrops of Early Carboniferous at Somerset, yes, but no lime mud mound facies are located there. Also the fossiliferous coal contains different species of fossils, as does the precipitated limestone of Somerset.


4- Can we take it as a sign as reverence to a particular stone when the stone in question has basically been used as aggregate?
The aggregate was not scattered over the entire Stonehenge area but piled at a specific locality, namely (originally) at Stonehenge Counterscarp, its outermost bank, so yes. Later 3/4's of such bank was scrapped off and piled at Stonehenge Mound 100m (109yrd, 328ft) east-southeast of Heelstone.


5- To the best of my knowledge, there is no evidence of any use of coal around Stonehenge. When I looked up this subject I read that the earliest known use of coal in Britain dates back to Iron Age times- much later than the henge construction.
http://www.sciforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2971&stc=1

There were no airplanes in the Neolithic, unless Kafka2 can prove otherwise.


Fatuous. You will note that it's impossible to tell from the picture you posted which seams would have been visible to Neolithic man. How about expanding on your theory of why they would have inevitably concluded the seams (exposed or concealed) to be circular?


Because the elder whitestone, old red sandstone, black coalstone, and pale gritstone, even the volcanic bluestone, are from South Wales.


I'll rephrase the question as you've misunderstood it. What made the South Wales coalfields more special to Neolithic man than the more local deposits?


The Waulsortian lime mud mound facies of South Wales is not present at Somerset. There are outcrops of Early Carboniferous at Somerset, yes, but no lime mud mound facies are located there. Also the fossiliferous coal contains different species of fossils, as does the precipitated limestone of Somerset.


To what degree do the two differ given that, as the crow flies, they're no more than 10-20 miles apart?


The aggregate was not scattered over the entire Stonehenge area but piled at a specific locality, namely (originally) at Stonehenge Counterscarp, its outermost bank, so yes. Later 3/4's of such bank was scrapped off and piled at Stonehenge Mound 100m (109yrd, 328ft) east-southeast of Heelstone.


How is this indicative of reverence?


http://www.sciforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2971&stc=1


Nice picture. Pointless, but nice. Are you hiding any proof of neolithic coal use up your sleeve? This really does look like a bit of a stumbling block.

Fatuous. You will note that it's impossible to tell from the picture you posted which seams would have been visible to Neolithic man. How about expanding on your theory of why they would have inevitably concluded the seams (exposed or concealed) to be circular?
I would but it's not a theory, Carboniferous coal's at Stonehenge.


I'll rephrase the question as you've misunderstood it. What made the South Wales coalfields more special to Neolithic man than the more local deposits?
Stonehenge is but one of hundreds of failed coal exploration sites.


To what degree do the two differ given that, as the crow flies, they're no more than 10-20 miles apart?
To the nth degree Somerset litholigies not present at Stonehenge.


How is this indicative of reverence?.
Direct association, of the elder white limestone markers, and coal.


Nice picture. Pointless, but nice. Are you hiding any proof of neolithic coal use up your sleeve? This really does look like a bit of a stumbling block.
Carboniferous coal at Stonehenge Mound 100m E-SE of Heelstone.

What I like about this thread is that when asked for a layman's explanation of some rather dense and convoluted hocus-pocus, Dr Denke came up with something even less penetrable. Nice work.

If I'm right, the point of this theory is to argue that Stonehenge and every other henge were built by early Welsh coal miners.

:hmm:

P.S. I also liked the bit about the steam powered "Manipulator" ;)

So we conclude that neolithic man used coal, revered coal seams, knew that subterranean coal deposits were circular when viewed from above, and then cocked it up by building a henge that looked nothing like them?

As pointed out, they had no planes to do aerial spotting, but how does that pose a problem to those intrepid stone-age geologists who knew the layout of subterranean coal deposits?

[Kafka2] Any chance of setting the "History as Filth" team on a research project into early marital aids?

Fatuous. You will note that it's impossible to tell from the picture you posted which seams would have been visible to Neolithic man. How about expanding on your theory of why they would have inevitably concluded the seams (exposed or concealed) to be circular?

I would but it's not a theory, Carboniferous coal's at Stonehenge.

This passed me by earlier, but when I re-read the thread, I noticed the "masterclass in not answering the question" comment - well, he's at it again.

You can point out that carboniferous coal is at Stonehenge, Avebury and Timbuctoo, but it still won't have anything to do with the early coal-diggers concluding seams were circular.

[Kafka2] Any chance of setting the "History as Filth" team on a research project into early marital aids?

If anyone knows of any incidents where the course of history has been changed by a marital aid, I'll consider it.

However I do have one related fact for you. Did you know that humanity invented the double-headed dildo before the wheel? I'll leave it to others to speculated on whether we had our priorities right.