Updated to version 1.01. Fixes bug with crashing when trying to build Conquistador


Hi !
I'm Spanish and an old player of Civ2.

As such, I was wondering what Sid Meier was thinking when he chose to leave out of the game the Spaniard civilization, one of the most important of all time, not just for the role of Spain in Europe, but mostly for it's role in America.

So I have solved it replacing the Iroquois with the Spanish.

I've set my Spanish Civilization with the same Special trait than the Iroquois: Expansionist (remember the colonization of America)and Religious (The Catholic kings and the Reconquista against the muslims). Besides, the other traits doesn't match too much with Spaniards.

The special unit is the Conquistador, replacing the knight, it's the same except that it's 5 offense and that can be adquired with Monotheism.


Also, I have included my own version of Fascism of Fundamentalism. I didn't know that there were a patch (I visited the forum 2 days ago) so it may differ a bit from those other patches

Just uncompress the zip on your civ3 scenario or on the main civ3 directory if you want it to modify de default rules:D

Old version deleted after 632 downloads

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Would you mind telling us what your versions of fascism and fundamentalism do.

Thanks

Sure

As I didn't know the other version of fascism or fundamentalism, I haven't been affected by them

Fascism:

I see it as opposite to Communism.

Worker rate: 3, due to the great convictions of the people anmd the use of slaves.
Draft limit: 2
Military Police: 4 (think of the SS)
Hurrying production: Forced Labor (sacrifice of slaves)
Same unit support as Monarchy and Communism
Nuissance corruption (it might be problematic)
No war weariness
NO trade bonus as in Republic or Democracy
High resistance to Communism occupacy and propaganda

Fundamentalism:

As we are watching these days, it's the opposite to Democracy (in fact, we're in war with them)

Rate cap: 5 (as in Civ2)
Assimilation: 1%
Draft limit: 5 (they're totally devoted to their leader)
Military Police: 5
Hurrying production: Forced labor (they sacrifice themselves)
Unit support: all free (they don't work for the money)
Corruption: Rampart (not really that much, but it's a way of refelcting the poor economy)
High resistance to occupation by any goverment.
Inmune to propaganda (insanely string convictions)
Conscript Diplomats
Elite Spies (if they managed to destroy the towers... )


Both appear at the same time than Communism

Originally posted by valrond
Hi !
I'm Spanish and an old player of Civ2.

As such, I was wondering what Sid Meier was thinking when he chose to leave out of the game the Spaniard civilization, one of the most important of all time, not just for the role of Spain in Europe, but mostly for it's role in America.


I agree. Many more people have heard of the the Spanish and their history than the Iroquois and their history.

I know that the Iroquois had an important nation, but Spain is too important.

I´m spanish as well, and I´m very angry with the Sid Meier an the civteam for not including the spanish civilization. They forget that we discovered the place where they are living now. We were once the leading nation in the world, just like the USA is now. Under the rule of king Felipe II we forged "an empire where the sun never set", being dominant in Europe and in America. We had colonies in Africa and Asia as well. You can trace back our history as an unified nation for more than 1.000 years. Meanwhile the USA has only 200 years of history. Today spanish is the third language in the world, after chinese and english, if we look to the number of speakers. And, if we go to Civ3 terms, our culture is expanding throught the USA with an increasing number of people speaking spanish and lots of spaniards being included into the american social life. Just look at Amenabar, Almodovar, Antonio Banderas, and Penelope Cruz in Hollywood, or Pau Gasol in the NBA. Maybe soon some of the USA cities will fall to our civilizations side thanks to our strong culture ;)

I'm also Spanish, and yeah I reckon the Spanish have been fairly powerful for ages, we may not have always been the greatest(days before the reconquista, Franco's reign) but Spain once controlled all of Europe..I'm gettin this mod :D

Hi Valrond,

For obvious reasons I am also interested in adding the Spanish into my Civ3. If I understand it correctly your file includes the Spanish, but also the other modifications.

Could you make a separate file with just the Spanish?

BTW, I've got mixed feelings about the Conquistadores being mounted units.

ah rosa, that "an empire where the sun never sets" is about the british empire, not spain...

Here it is the version which only replaces Iroquois with Spanish.

About the Conquistador, I also have my doubts on if it is a mounted unit, so I accept sugestions (maybe we could do arcabuceros, similar to musketeers).

And bisho, that about the empire, is about Spain, I don't know if it is for British Empire, But Spanish Empire in the 16th century covered not only Spanish territory in Europe, But also in America, all South America except a part of Brazil, Central America, and the South of current US (Do you know why US have States such as California or Florida and Cities with the names of Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Antonio, San Diego, etc) and even the Philipines, that receive their name after Philip II (Felipe II).

About the mod, it has just Spanish Civilization

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The game has a balance. There are 15 possible matchings using the 6 specializations... and there are 16 civilizations. Only one matching repeats.

If you put a new nation to the game you should replace the appropriate one. If we look at the case from your point of view, there are many influential civilizations missed by the game. Spanish (Militaristic/Religious, Expansionist), Dutch (Commercial, Expansionist), Arabs (Expansionist, Religious), Turks (Expansionist, Militaristic), Jews (Commercial, Religious/Industrial)etc.. and there is these Americans which is not a civilization in fact. The history of decline of the Ottomans is longer than whole American history.

There shouldn't be more than 6 expansionist civilizations in the game. And most civilizations dominated the world history are (sadly) the militaristic and expansionist ones. That is the case and the problem.

New Patch version 1.01
It fixes the bug that crashes the game when you try to build conquistadores. Also, Consquistadores requires now Chivalry, to equal it to the knights.


Read the reame.txt

Originally posted by Qelebex
[B]and there is these Americans which is not a civilization in fact. The history of decline of the Ottomans is longer than whole American history.US history goes back to the 1500's.. they just weren't completely independent until 1776.

And at the time of American colonization, England was the main power in Europe..

and there was this american "nation" and "civilization" right? or was it just the "colonization" of north america by various imparial "european" nations?

if Europe is consisted of North Antlantic Ocean, you are right about England :D

Dear AdamSmo:

In the XV and XVI centuries the only "americans" that lived in the territory which is today called USA were the Iroquois, and other native indian tribes, besides a bunch of french, english and, of course, spanish settlers.

Valrond,

Thanks for the only Spain version.

On the subject of the special unit I guess the key is in what historic period should the Spanish get their unit. Is it pre or post gun powder. And do you think of the exploration of America or the wars in Europe (against England, the Netherlands, France...).

If you opt for the first I would go for some kind of Conquistador, not mounted, but with extra movement (to make it more expansionistic, plus the added retreat if wounded advantage). We could add a prerequisite that had to do with sea travelling or such.

If you go for European domination then its either arcabuceros as you mentioned or alabarderos (based on pikemen). What where the "Tercios de Flandes" or the troops of "Gran Capitán" made of anyway?

What do you think?

Aliatar

P.S. My Civ3 is already waiting for me at the post office :D :D

That's the point, I'm not sure what period of history we should use, my conquistador also refers to the reconquista period, as it is supposed to replace knights.

I had to take a bad decision like this in order to keep coherence with the game, if you see, all of the special units are slightly improved versions of other units, so first i have to choose what unit to replace, and as Conquistadores are mainly an offensive unit, I had to think in mounted warriors.

But to be more accurate, Conquistador, as they conquerered America, should be some kind of modified Musketman, with better movement and better attack, I know they where rarely mounted.

What about this ?

Conquistador:

Cost: 60
Attack: 4 Deffense: 3
Moves: 2

The problem is that those stats are the same as a regular knight.

Arcabuceros should have the same stats as Musketeers.
And for Alabarderos, I really don't know what to do with them (2/5).

The Ottoman history goes for a very very long long time. I dunno exactly when they started but they were still around in ww1


and when are people gonna realise that England wasnt ALWAYS the imperial power in england, a lot of countries held the mantle

Just adding my two cents :)

Conquistadore were not always mounted, but they were fighting people who did not knew the horse and the mounted armies at all. So they had because of SOME horses a huge advantage (remember that Cortez (or is it Pizzaro ?) destroyed the entire Aztec empire with 70 men, 2 canons and about twenty horses (no kidding).
I would say that the Conquistadore should be an upgraded version of the musketman, with 1 more point in attack and the ability to treat all square as road squares.

About the civilizations that were not included... Spain is sure a big miss. Thus, US civ, as recent as it is, has tremendous influence over the world right now. It has developped a new culture. Even though it's often a LACK of culture, it's the "american way of life", and all the western and country stuff is something that is purely and only american. Even if US would collapse tomorrow, historians in 300 years would talk about them and the 20th century just like we actually talk about Romans at the first century, or Greece at the fifth century AD, or France during the middle-age or XVI° to XVIII° centuries : it is their Golden Age.
So I think that American civ is a must-have.
I think too that an Arabian civ and a Mongol civ would have been interesting. I'm not sure that the Germany civ was different enough from France and England to be a civ by its own. And I would have represented England not with Elizabeth, but rather with Victoria, during the time where England was the clear first superpower of the world, having an industry more powerful than the the rest of the world united.
But enough of the rants :)

Mongol "civilization"? :D they didn't even build ant cities..

You're right, I know that conquistadores, those used to conquer America (because Spain was reconquerer before from the muslims) were not mounted, just a few of them, and used a modified version of muskets, called arcabuz.

The main weapon against the native was the fear, the near to the unknown, spaniards lloked like gods in their bright armors and noisy arcabuces.

But, as conquistadores were ann offensive unit, I can hardly make an offensive unit 3/4, which is what I thought at the beginning, but that of all as road is a good idea.


About the Americans, it's stupid to say that they don't count for history because you have a little over 200 years of history.
The game should have at least 32 Civilization to just with history, we can't forget the Mongols, Cartaginians, Vikings, Incas and a lot more, more tribes in Africa (only Zulu and Egypt) in America and of course in Europe, what about Polish, Turkish (well, we can consider persians are turkish ?), Portugal adn many more that I can't mention here.

As for Germany and France, for sure they deserve differences, since the roman times (gaul and germania) they where different countries, so there's no point in joining them (it would be more logic to join America and England).

That takes us to another point, as we've seen in history, colonies that are far away from their point fo departure (sucxh as the colonization of America or Africa) will, with time, get the independece, I think the game should reflect this as Sid Meier did before in Colonization.

One last think
Do you think it would be too much for Spain to have 2 special units ? The current Conquistador, which should be renamed to something like crusader and the new, muskeer-like, conquistador

Originally posted by Rhodry
...but Spain once controlled all of Europe..I'm gettin this mod :D

huh? since when did spain control all of europe? in the time of the hapsbergs? no... they were a dominant nation yes but all of europe? no single nation has ever done that. the romans and french have been close but even they never achived it. this post isn't a knock on spain guys I do feel they were left out.

P.S. the mongols were savages not a civilization... they destroyed much more than they ever built. they caused so much damage to the arab world that it still has never regained its former glory.

You can download Phillip II leader images in my RK Bonus Leader Pack (look for the thread in this forum for more info).

Feel free to add them to your mod (or not) as you wish.

To Download my Bonus Leader Pack:
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/rkrech

Next 362:
The Mongols ruled China relitavely well.

Valrond:
Only if every culture had a second special unit. Suggestions:
English longbowmen
American marines
French knights
Russian MiG fighters
Roman combat engineers (workers with extra combat abilities that can't be captured)
Aztec Eagle warriors
Chinese Cho Ko Nu (better longbowmen)
Greek Triremes
Japanese Zero carrier planes
German U-boats

Originally posted by Akka
Conquistadore were not always mounted, but they were fighting people who did not knew the horse and the mounted armies at all. So they had because of SOME horses a huge advantage (remember that Cortez (or is it Pizzaro ?) destroyed the entire Aztec empire with 70 men, 2 canons and about twenty horses (no kidding).

Just to pick a nit here. Cortez did NOT conquer the Aztecs with just 70 men and 2 cannon. He conquered it with the help of something on the order of thousands of native warriors who were using the Spanish as a reason to rebel against Aztec rule. And then Smallpox hit and finished the job. Smallpox was the BIG killer. If it wasnt for that, we might still have had several large native american 'empires' still in existance.

Yes, but Pizarro did conquer Inca empire ONLY with 200 men in the most incredible battle in the history (200 soldiers us +100000 inca warriors)

It is valid for both empires, the Habsburg as well as the British. But the saying was "created" in times of the Austro-Spanish hegemony over Europe (Germany, Lowlands, northern Italy, Iberian peninsula, south-east Europe) and America (beside some English and French settlements and Portuguese Brazil).

ttfn

Hello, I´m new here and I think that this is a very good forum tread. I´m also Spanish, and I think that is a great failure to ignore this civilization, and I´m not Selfish :p, I just know history. Is an admirable effort to try to make a patch for this civilization. About the characteristics of our civilization, well, I think that the basic caracteristic are not enough to represent all the civilizations. For example, I would add 3 more: Artistic (culture and happyness bonus for temples and cathedrals) Tactical (lower production cost of great armys and defense systems, one great leader for each age) Colonizative (extra movement of settlers, one initial culture point in each new city) and phylosophical (+1 of culture for libraries, universities & wonders). With this new parameters I would define the Spanish civilization as: Colonizative & Artistic. Colonizative because of the colonization of America, & Artistic because of the huge amounts of writers and artist that we have had (I´m not selfish, but... Cervantes, Unamuno, Lorca, Quevedo, Velázquez, Picasso, Goya... etc). I think that the “Religious” characteristic doesn´t fit the Spanish civilization very well, Spain have had quite long periods of anarchy and inestability (sometimes centuries of constant revolutions), plus nowadays the people is much less religious. And maybe militaristic, but nowadays Spain is suffering a lack of soldiers, and in fact on the imperial times the people joined the army not for “militaristic furor”, but yes for the chance of to archieve fame & money...

Well I like that youve done this for us all :goodjob: Your right Spain was over looked and its suprising it took this long to get it. This was one of the Civs I wasnt sure why no ones thought of it til now. Well good good job and good luck.

I think in case the spanish civilization is included in the game the special unit should be the ¨Tercio¨. The Tercios were basically formations of pikemen and musketmen. They were organized at the beginning of the XVI century under the reign of king Charles I (who was emperor of Germany at the same time) . The formation of musketmen surrounded by defensive armored pikemen with very long pikes (up to 20 feet), together with the long experience accumulated in the endless wars against the muslims and all over Europe and America turned out to be amazingly powerful and effective. Very often crossbowmen were included in the tercios as well. These tercios formations and their skills were determinant in the enormous influence and power of Spain during the XVI century.

It would be really great if somebody would make an animation for these units. During this time the military dressings were very colorful and spectacular, with lots of red and yellow cloth and big helmets.

Image of pikemen in tercios:
http://es.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/tiomajosevilla/vwp2?.tok=bcKZ74OBrXk6rlh_&.dir=/Mis+Documentos&.dnm=pikemanintercio.jpg&.src=bc


Image of musketmen in tercios:
http://es.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/tiomajosevilla/vwp2?.tok=bcKZ74OBOBicaNME&.dir=/Mis+Documentos&.dnm=musketmanintercio.jpg&.src=bc


(If you know how I can include the picture directly, instead of the url, please tell me, thanks)

I also miss the Spaniards in Civ3. But the Conquistador seems too strong for me. I don't know the Arcabucero but it could replace easily the Pikeman.
I will also offer the Indian War Elephant with Monotheism.

Some graphics for Arcabucero?

at the peak, spain was castille, aragon, granada, navarre, the netherlands, naples, sicily, milan, austria, a loose hold on germany, a few ports in africa, mexico, central america, the carribbean, a good portion of south america, and the phillipenes.

the sun never set on it because it held land in europe america and asia. this fact was later true of the british empire, but the phrase was composed about spain and charles the fifth.

fundamentalism should be available after nationalism, as reaction on the occupation of foreign lands by european powers etc

as said, fundamentalism appeared only in modern times. sure, there where religious fanatics before but the gowernments were monachies.

Fundamentalism appeared in the early 1900's as a protest against the "modern world"... why have it available in the Industrial Age? :confused:

Originally posted by AdamSmo
And at the time of American colonization, England was the main power in Europe..

Spain was dominant until 1630 at least.

Me gusta la idea. Yo tambien estoy disilusionado que los espanoles fueron quitados del juego. Estoy descargandolo ahora.

Gracias!

For you English people:
I like the idea. I also am disappointed that the Spanish were removed from the game. I'm downloading this now.

Thanks!

After a loong time without doing anything, I thing it is time to make and update to the patch, but I need you to help me by telling me what do you want.

Do you like the conquistador as it it, do you prefer the tercios, alabarderos or any other unit ?
I personally still prefer conquistador, but it's hard to implement them in the game. They were so important for the history of men, that even a highly historically accurate game as europa universalis (and the sequel) have the conquistador as one of the special leaders.

Do you want to leave the rest of the options as they are, with the same governments, or do you like the mods I did, or both ?

And any comments you want to add

Originally posted by Next362


huh? since when did spain control all of europe? in the time of the hapsbergs? no... they were a dominant nation yes but all of europe? no single nation has ever done that. the romans and french have been close but even they never achived it.

u forgot to mention to nazi germany, they were close to get all europe too.

You're right; the lack of Spain is the grossest oversight on Firaxis' part! (I would've included the Maya, Mali, and the Ottomans as well.)

As to the new unit, I like the Conquistador, if for no other reason than that is a military unit that most people would recognize. I might make them like an early musketeer.

I'm curious about some aspects of the mod. Does it have leader pics, and are there pics for different ages and emotions? Does the unit have animation?

Do your new governments add to existing ones, or do they replace old ones? Do they have graphics?

A couple of notes that I should have added in the previous post:

I would change "Fanatacism" to "Modern Theocracy" -- any government has its fanatics.

Is there any way to add civs, and not replace them? I kinda like my Iroquois!

Perhaps you would be interested in my Fencer unit? I have researched the subject of fencing for the creation of this unit and have discovered that many developments took place in Spain.

See the unit here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17456

¡Gracias!

I just found this thread, and it seems ther is no longer a link to the full mod that includes the spanish civ as well as the two governments. Please tell me where they dissapeared! Maybe you could make a mod with just the govs? With all due respect, it doesn't matter much to me weather I play vs. the Iroquis or the Spanish...

i read the readme and installed and everything but it isnt working

Originally posted by rosa
I´m spanish as well, and I´m very angry with the Sid Meier an the civteam for not including the spanish civilization. They forget that we discovered the place where they are living now. We were once the leading nation in the world, just like the USA is now. Under the rule of king Felipe II we forged "an empire where the sun never set", being dominant in Europe and in America. We had colonies in Africa and Asia as well. You can trace back our history as an unified nation for more than 1.000 years. Meanwhile the USA has only 200 years of history. Today spanish is the third language in the world, after chinese and english, if we look to the number of speakers. And, if we go to Civ3 terms, our culture is expanding throught the USA with an increasing number of people speaking spanish and lots of spaniards being included into the american social life. Just look at Amenabar, Almodovar, Antonio Banderas, and Penelope Cruz in Hollywood, or Pau Gasol in the NBA. Maybe soon some of the USA cities will fall to our civilizations side thanks to our strong culture ;)

You idiot. The Vikings established a colony in Newfoundland 500 years before Spain sent a ship to "India"

LesCanadiens:
HHAhahahhaha, ça c bien vrai. Ils ont même eu un village sur la côte atlantique de l'Amérique. Mais ce qu'on sait, c'est qu'ils disparurent de là et retournèrent pour certains en Islande et au Groenland.

For you english people: Vikings find "america" in 1000, they have some colony in america by Thorfinn Karlsefni. But they got theirs ass kicked by Amerindians(Vikings have called amerindians " Freydis".)

There were two things that really fueled the expansion of the Spanish Empire in Imperial times - Gold and "God." The conquistadores were conquering for the money and the fame, not for religious reasons. Their companions the Missionaries were traveling for "God" to "save" the heathens of the new world. While the country was unified by religion (both Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand being Catholic) their desire to expand their empire was money-based.

Perhaps a UU unlike any other - I don't know crap about making mods like this but it sounds like it could be fun - how about a missionary? It could be a modified Settler that moves like an Explorer (treating all terrains as roads) setting up missions, small towns that then become the heart of the newly colonized area.

Just an idea. Great job on the mod.

Come on, it's a pretty phrase, but it's easy to achieve... I believe that France *today* match that condition... Mainland France+Réunion in Indian Ocean+New Guinea & Polynesia in the Pacific+St Pierre & Miquelon, a few carabeans islands and French Guyenna in America is all it takes. Not to mention a sliver of Antartica.
If France today can manage it with a few sparsly populated islands around the world, any country with a decent colonial empire could say that. Today, I believe Russia can say that as well (barely in winter), and England probably too.

My Ideas for fascism

I base my fascist governement to the Third Reich.

Draft limit 3-4.
It could very well be much more since nazis would have armed even old ladies to defend Berlin 1945 if they would have had enough time and weaponry. 15 years old kids and old-timers over 65 were already fighting against Allied forces on the Western Front.

Assimilation 1%
Since there are always people who think strict rules and flashy military extravaganzas make a happy nation, but even if some more would love to join they probably wouldn't be allowed because of some racial issue.

Rate cap 6.
Sure, nazis invented lot of stuff for military but with the expence of other sciences. With persecution of the Jews and other "inferior races", leftists and intelligence (think about names like Sigmund Freud and Albert Einstein) the Reich lost a huge amount of brain power. Artists were forced to work for nazi ideology to create pure Germanic images and models for people. In schools and universities mythologies and pseudo-sciences were taught with the expense of human sciences. Their own histories and even some kind of philosophy was created, but mainly by people with more imagination than knowledge.

Worker rate 3
I do agree, they had lots of labour programs and slave workers. Same goes with military police limit 4 as SS, Gestapo and even Schupo worked hard to keep prisoners, camp guards and executioners employed.

Leading class in the 3rd Reich used tax money for their personal well being etc. so corruption would at least a nuisance.

Unit cost 3
Cost is 2 for all my governements (I play with large and huge maps and games take ages if I don't restrict the amount of units) but for fascism the unit cost 3!
This is because of the fact that they invested lot of time and money to create strong army and new kind of weaponry. The Third Reich was near a bankcrupt anyway well before the war was over. Without financial geniouses like Hjalmar Schacht (president of the Reichsbank and minister till 1943) they wouldn't have done so well in the first place - even he was so concerned of nazis focusing to weaponry with the expense of everything else that he joined the resistance and was arrested after Hitler's assassination attempt. Nevertheless town-city-metropolis bonuses are ok and first hundred units can free for fascism (again because of labour programs, industrialist support and SS having to pay their own bills before 40's).

No trade bonus because of poor relations with other nations, no war weariness because people didn't dare to object.

Diplomats are conscript, after all their foreign minister Ribbentrop was such a silly person. Mainly in Nazi Germany diplomacy was about indimitation, not negotiation. Spies are veteran at the highest, Canaris was quite incompetent leader of the Abwehr, their military intelligence. If not with else Himmler was successfull when hiding the holocaust from publicity though, but generally he took care of internal matters.

About resistance modifier:
They would probably be much more resistant to monarchy, republic and democracy since these system allow opposing. Communism puts a bullet in the head, this an average nazi can respect and so they did in the East Germany.

Propaganda modifier
Against everything pretty high - they had so much of their own and foreign was banned and blocked so. They hated communists, nobles and monarchists and despised republics and democracies.

I guess for gameplay purposes etc. they shouldn't be immune to anything except perhaps propaganda, if you will.

Let me know what you think.

Ukas