HNDY03 - AWDG C3C – Tiny map as the Overlords.

We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!

On we sweep with threshing oar, Our only goal will be the western shore.

We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
How soft your fields so green, can whisper tales of gore,
Of how we calmed the tides of war. We Are Your Overlords (http://www.tocherburn.co.uk/kittens/)

On we sweep with threshing oar, Our only goal will be the western shore.

So now you'd better stop and rebuild all your ruins,
For peace and trust can win the day despite of all your losing.

The ever changing rotation as of 6-3-04

Slinger
T_McC
Greebley
Handy

YOM - C3C down again.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HNDY03_BC4000a.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HNDY03_BC4000b.JPG

Level: Demigod
Variant: Always War
Civilization: Overlords. Who knew Ivory was indigenous to the land of ice and snow. :lol:
Continents: 70% Water
Size: Tiny
Age: 5 Billion
Temperature: Temperate
Climate: Normal
Barbarians: Sedentary
Rivals: 3 Randomly Selected (Byzantines, Mongols, Arabs)
AI Aggression: Normal
Victory Condition: All are enabled.
Culturally linked starts: Off
Respawn: Off
Preserve Random Seed: On
Cultural Conversion: On
Patch: 1.15 C3C

Always War as described by Greebley (minor edits by Handy)
The game is an Always War game. You may only trade when you first meet a civilization, and must declare war on the same turn after trading is complete. If you see a new AI unit, you must make contact & declare war that turn. Absolutely no GPT trades allowed. If you see a new face on F4, you are obligated to declare war that turn (after trading). Players must declare war if they are exploring and see AI units, but are not required to actually attack the units they come in contact with. No peace treaties, ever. You may check F4 as often as you like to spy on the AI's tech, resources, luxuries & city count. We are not allowed to build embassies.

Discuss any move that seems exploitive before doing it with the team. Although there are not too many exploits available in AW, we’ll follow the forbidden blatant exploits banned by GOTM and RBCiv such as no "Free Wealth". Other normal game exploits such as "Baiting the AI" with an empty city to create a kill zone are an AW tradition and are allowed. Also, you ARE allowed to initially keep a city, move a settler to the same spot as the city, and then abandon and immediately resettle. This is considered an exploit in RBCiv rules, but is okay in this AWE game. In addition if you need to build a city one square deeper into enemy territory just to move borders to steal a resource, go for it. We may keep or raze cities, and can keep slaves. You may whip captured cities or cities where all citizens are unhappy. This is not a popularity contest, this is war.

SG Stuff
This is a low pressure SG, so you have 24 hours for an "I got it" and 72 to play. If you need a one day extension, then mention this before the 72 hours are up. Players can work out skips between themselves, just post a message to the thread. If you can't play within 72 total, the team players can switch places, or you can ask for a skip. We will play 10 turns at first, and possibly fewer later (5) if the turns begin to take too long.

Tips & Tricks for Lurkers interested in AW
In earlier games we learned how strong the new army pillaging abilities are. Pillage early & often. At least one pillage army per Continent will be the key to victory on a tiny map. Bigger maps require more pillaging armies.
Major game priorities (The higher the level, the more important these tips are):
1. Build the GL if you can.
2. Get a pillaging army to the other continent ASAP to cripple their production.
3. Pillage AI Iron & horses so your team faces a steady stream of archers & later longbows for leader fishing.
3. Build cities on hills whenever you can. The defense bonus of cities on hills helps out spears immensely. When you settle, try to use rivers to your advantage for the defensive bonus. Also be aware of the movement penalty caused by rivers before engineering. This can really impact your ability to reinforce. Spears on a city on a hill with walls supported by cats can kill a lot of AI units. We are likely to wind up with an ICS type build outside our core ring on this teeny tiny map. Corrupt cites are useful as “specialist farms” and to increase your city count so you can have many armies in the field.
4. Build walls in all front line cities. Build barracks in any city you plan to build military units in. Build cats in a city without barracks.
5. Try not to build a city more than 2 moves from the nearest city. If a city is 3 tiles away, it cannot be reinforced on the same turn. Two tiles between cities also allows you to "chain" units built in productive cities to the front lines on the turn they are built, without leaving any cities exposed or short of police. If you are unable to shuffle units & reinforce, it's a killer for front line cities. You want a dense build anyway for the free unit support offered by despotism & monarchy. The exception to the 2 tiles between cities rule is late in the game you are going for domination.
6. The kill ratio goal is 10 to 1. This is done early on playing mostly defense using spears, cats, hills and keeping your cities tightly packed. Avoid attacking unless you have bombarded your opponent down first. You can't afford to waste units on offense on AWM or especially AWE.
7. Don’t attack the last unit in an AI stack if it means you will be exposed to counter attack by another AI unit on the IBT.
8. Don't underestimate archer armies. They work fine early on against size 6 & under cities guarded by spears.
9. If you want to win, pillage first & expand second. If you fail to pillage, you'll face the AI's strongest units (swords in stead of archers) and the AI numbers will overwhelm you. You can deal with 6 archers, 6 swords or 6 MDI is another story.
10. Set up a kill zone. Induce the AI to attack you from land where he has no defensive bonus to offset your counter attack (flat lands with no forest or jungle).
11. Build a lot of cats, trebs, cannon.
12. Avoid building regular units. They lose too easy. Build barracks & veterans.
13. Learn how to leader fish if you don't already know.
14. There is a big difference between AWM & AWE.
15. Learn to play on a continents map. Pangaea maps are much harder since you'll be fighting everyone all game long at the same time.

What to expect:
Your team will be way behind in tech. Higher levels means further behind. The GL, pillaging & specialists will help you catch up.
Don’t be surprised if at some point you are running 0/0/0 on the sliders with a lone scientist doing 50 turn research. Unit support will cost a lot of money.
Stay in despotism for a while until you get a decent city count for the lesser free unit support of monarchy, then bite the bullet & go to monarchy and stay there.
Notes and observations on pillaging:
1) It takes a long time for armies get out-dated, so 3 spear armies can pillage for centuries.
2) Cutting off the capitol will eliminate AI trade deals, so finding & isolating the capitol is always a good idea.
3) If you can, capture AI workers. Kill them if they can’t get back to your lands safely & quickly.
4) Remember that in Conquests an army can pillage as a free move, and gets +1 movement over the base units used.
5) If you get an army to each continent to pillage, you can usually win the game, so leader fishing is important

I say we head west and settle on the hill. :D
We'll need the hill bonus to survive the initial AI onslaught, and we won’t need to be building ships for a while.

HNDY03_BC4000 (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HNDY03_BC4000.zip)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/vikingkittens.jpg

Ready to rumble. I'm thinking that if we get early contact we're hosed for both Zeus and GL. I'm almost hoping we're alone on this island.

Agreed on moving to the hill. We could be losing a trade by not having the city be coastal, but it looks like water to the west as well. Maybe set the worker to chopping the grassland forest to start with Barracks, then build nothing but vet troops. I think we start with Alphabet and WC, probably best to head for Bronze first, as Spears are better than Warriors behind Walls.

Oh, having that set of opponents could be tricky. Two expansionist civs (quick contact if we share the continent) who each have Iron-less Knights. A 2nd Seafaring civ to possibly bridge the continents. Oh, and hope we aren't sharing our continent with the Mongols. They get free Archers to start.

I would say definitely to the hill. The extra defense worth it at this level.

That ivory is from Mammoths (Can you guess what adventure game I have been playing?)

My two year old son wouldn't let me stop playing your viking link there. I think we saw it 7-10 times :lol: He is big into trains and boats at the moment (I can't tell you how many times he has seen the train starting up in the adventure game mentioned previously. The mind boggles. Fortunately, he has recently learned how to use a mouse and click on things...)

Checking in.

I don't see anything wrong with moving on the hill to settle. Starting tile is pretty good too, but maybe the hill will reveal some food bonuses.

Agreed on moving to the hill...
Oh, having that set of opponents could be tricky. Two expansionist civs (quick contact if we share the continent) who each have Iron-less Knights. A 2nd Seafaring civ to possibly bridge the continents. Oh, and hope we aren't sharing our continent with the Mongols. They get free Archers to start.

The hill it is, and Bronze for Spears was my thinking too. Chop a barracks. We get Alphabet & WC to start.
Mongols -> Exp. & Mil. | WC & Pots |UU is 4.2.2 knight with no iron required, requires ponies
Arabs -> Exp. & Rel.| Pots & CB | UU is 4.2.3 knight requires iron + Horses
Byz -> Sea & Sci. | BW & Alpha | UU is Dromon fire boat - remember them from T_Mc01?

IIRC the AI sent 8 warriors in the first wave on my solo AWDG. On the bright side, I got a leader on defense from promotion during the first wave of 8 warriors last time, but it took a few centuries to scrape together 4 cities & 3 spare units to build an army.

Greebley Glad you liked the link - I thought it was pretty funny too.

My 2nd post has a 4000bc save in case you missed it.

Ready to rumble. I'm thinking that if we get early contact we're hosed for both Zeus and GL. I'm almost hoping we're alone on this island.

I don't know. In the AWDG I never completed because of the PC problem I managed to build the GLib & Zeus (in that order) after contact while at war with only 1 civ. There may be no other Ivory on the tiny map.

Let's hope it's two equally size continents with 2 civs on each.

Where is the Water?

Turn 0 4000 BC
Settler moves to hill. We have a COW after border expansion
Geez I hope we have fresh water somewhere. In the excitement of seeing Ivory on the first roll I didn’t notice the lack of H2O. :(
Worker moves to FG to begin a chop.

Turn 1 3950
Build Trondheim. Work the forest to get barracks in and begin a chop due in 4.
BW due in 17, 0 GPT

Turn 2 3900
:sleep:

Turn 3 3850
:sleep:

Turn 4 3800
Move citizen to grassland. We need 11 shield for barracks & get chop + 1 shield from the City so rax should come in on the IBT.

IBT
Barracks - warrior

Turn 5 3750
We are working the grass with ivory now for the cash. Worker is building a mine on the ivory.

Turn 6 3700
:sleep:

Turn 7 3650
:sleep:

Turn 8 3600
:sleep:

Turn 9 3550
:sleep:
BW due in 4 losing 1 GPT with 5 in the bank.
Warrior due in 5 and we grow in 3.

Turn 10 3500
:sleep:
BW due in 4 losing 1 GPT with 5 in the bank.
Warrior due in 5 and we grow in 3.

Turn 11 3450
Border expansion. Working the cow now.

Turn 12 3400
:sleep:
IBT
Warrior – archer (spear pre-build)

Turn 13 3350
:sleep:

IBT – ivory hooked up.

Turn 14 3300
Move NE to the BG to mine them.

IBT
BW – Masonry

Turn 15 3250
Switch archer to spear
Warrior goes S for a stroll.
Worker begins mine.
The spear will complete before we need any MP duty.

Turn 16 3200
Warrior moving towards the southern mountain. No water. Ugh.

IBT
Spear – spear

Turn 17 3150
Spot gems on mountain to the south. We should control those by, oh say 100 AD.
See yellow border to the east. I’m turning around.
I’m of two minds here. The sooner we meet them, the smaller the initial stack they will send our way. Delaying ensures a larger stack to T_McC to deal with. We will have 2 spears minimum before they reach us.

OTOH, it would be nice to have some walls.
I decide to head east next turn, away from the yellow border.

Turn 18 3100
Spot 2 oasis tiles to the east.

Turn 19 3050
It appear there is a narrow 2-tile land bridge due S of the cow.

Turn 20 3000
Explore the mountains a little.

Notes:
Soon we will have to face the first wave. I hope they are regulars (and warriors).
The save is attached as a zip per Thunderfall's preference for us to use attachments in lieu of uploads for save file. You have to zip it first, you can't attach an .sav file.
A screen show one post below.

3000 BC

Roster:
Handy
T_McC IS UP
Yom
Greebley
Barbslinger



http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HNDY03_BC3000.JPG

Wow! Early war a coming. Would archers be a viable option? Is it Mongols or Arabia? With my colorblindness I can't tell. That 1-tile land bridge looks good later for our ships, a town there. I would hope there is land further north too. It may be better to settle north until we can see what is happening with our first opponent. It looks like the AI may be straddled with some desert.
Does DG give 2 towns to start?

I got it.

We have our wish, the Mongols and their starting Archers as neighbors.

@Slinger - Yes, DG gives a 2nd settler to the AI to begin.

I'm thinking about targeting the plains forest S of Trondheim for chopping. No defensive terrain for our opponents.

Good idea to get rid of that forest if you can. I'm surprised we did not get contact in the first 20 give how close they are.

HNDY03 - Fine, Have it Norway!

3000 BC (0)
Well, thems be the Mongols. Don't think I can get us killed off in 10 turns, but you never know.

We are 1 under our support limit, nice that we do have a backline to expand into to keep our economy solvent.

We're good for another growth without raising the lux tax.

Working the proper tiles, so we're off ...

<Return>

2950 BC (1)
Nothing happens except mine finishing.

2900 BC (2)
Spear completes, I'll go for an Archer next.

2850 BC (3)
We'll be happy for another growth after this one as well. Start bringing Warrior back to cover worker on the forest chop.

2800 BC (4)
Well, the Mongols are in the house. Good news is that they are leading with a Scout, so we'll have a few more turns.

Trade Temu's ugly self Alphabet for Pottery and his 35 gold, then declare war.

2750 BC (5)
Build Archer, struggle with what to do with the forest chop. So I'll build a Warrior and use the 10 shields towards the next unit.

2710 BC (6)
Nothing happens.

2630 BC (8)
Warrior completes, move on to a 2nd Archer.

2590 BC (9)
Three regular Warriors come into view. Forest is chopped, worker heads north to build a path to our 2nd city.

2550 BC (10)
We have 2 Spears, 2 Archers, and 1 Warrior defending Trondheim. Set to build a Granary. Next leader gets the first combat, as I'm content to let the reg Warriors do the attacking.

Final Notes:
There is no way any of those Warriors should win a battle. :lol: Famous Last Words.

The worker is set to chop a forest to speed the Granary along. Actually, Masonry is due in 2, so one could switch Trondheim to Walls, then re-start the Granary and get the forest chop credit. Use the F1-"Look Ahead" trick to build the walls on the same turn that Masonry comes in, if you are so inclined.

Not sure where to go with research. Either Iron Working or Math, I guess. Also check to see if you can turn down science when Masonry is due in 1.

The World as we know it.

Fine, Have it Norway! :lol:

Not much hope for Iron anywhere we can claim it early in this game unless there are hills to the north, or the lone hill N of the oasis has iron. Perhaps Math over IW since the Acav are our best hope for an attack 3 unit.

Three archers is pretty good luck. Maybe we’ll get a spear promoted to elite out of that.

That was a very shrewd play to chop the forest next to our city. :goodjob:

This map is far more challenging than HNDY02.

What is the "F1 look ahead trick"? :confused:

Roster:
Handy
T_McC
Yom <- is UP
Greebley
Barbslinger

I would look at least a little bit north. There might be a lake up there.

I assume you mean when you are picking your next science tech, you use F1 to go to the town menu and switch the town to walls before going on to the builds? (and so can get town walls the same turn you get the tech?)

I wonder if we could sneak out and destroy that one Mongol town? That would destroy his free settler and put us on a more even footing.

Perhaps Math over IW since the Acav are our best hope for an attack 3 unit.

Three archers is pretty good luck. Maybe we’ll get a spear promoted to elite out of that.

What is the "F1 look ahead trick"? :confused:


Agreed on Math, although we should get IW soon so we know where to pillage.

Actually, three Warriors. The Archers come next turn. (Not that I've played ahead 2-3 turns and gotten an 8-0 kill ratio, burning all of the Mongols starting units. :mischief: )

The "F1 look ahead trick" is as follows:
Masonry comes in, click on Big Picture from the Science Advisor pop-up. (so select from the tech tree screen, not the drop-down menu).
Click on the City Manager head from the tech tree screen.
Select Trondheim, change production to Walls.
Exit the city screen.

The walls then insta-complete, because you changed the build orders before the production cycle.

Thanks for the explanation.

Typed archers - meant warriors. :blush:

I really like taking about 5 archers to the Mongols too. It looks like a great choke.

Going on the offensive against the Mongols would be an interesting choice. I think we should get a 2nd city settled behind our lines (N of Trondheim) first, though. We need the unit support, and a place to build the SoZ.

If we can squeeze in a 3rd city, S-S-SW of Trondheim gives a nice forward base for the attack. Either way, we should have sufficient offensive force in the area to keep the Mongols from productively settling E of that choke.

I wonder if we could sneak out and destroy that one Mongol town? That would destroy his free settler and put us on a more even footing.

Maybe. Let's see how big the 2nd wave is. I wonder if the 2nd tile in the 3 tile choke is a hill. If so perhaps we could defend that. Holding a flatland city with only walls & spears in DG this early would be difficult. We have no cities to build reinforcements in.

My $.02
I think instead of an early archer rush we would be better served to settle, get Zeus and GLib, and then go offensive. We'll need Glib to win, and Zeus will certainly help a ton. IMO destruction of 1 Mongol town is not a game tipper in the long run. Let's spend the shields on settlers & spears, not an archer rush. Patience grasshopper. :D

Well going that tact will provide us with plenty of slaves because they will try to sneak settlers past thier choke city once their land is full. Once that starts happening we'll be able to see how many cities are down there. Once we get an army I would really like that city.

Have you guys seen the C3C Communism Thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82268)? I just found it, and it sounds pretty good for making war. Not sure how wee it works on a tiny map, but it would give you quicker temples in front line cities in a pamgaea regular size AWM game.

Roster:
Handy
T_McC
Yom <- is UP
Greebley
Barbslinger

Patch: 1.15 C3C

Greebley

It's May 15, so Yom's 24 hours are up. Feel free to grab it unless Yom posts an I got it before you see this message. If we hear from Yom & he wants he can play after you this round.

Roster:
Handy
T_McC <-posted turns 5-13-04 @ 10:28pm
Yom <- MIA - maybe out celebrating the end of AP exams. :lol:
Greebley <- free to grab & play
Barbslinger

Yom posted something about computer problems in one of the threads. I will assume they are not yet fixed and take the game.

I got it.

Preturn: Nothing changed

IBT: The two Warriors that attack do not even injure our now Elite Spear. 3 archers and another warrior appear.

2510 BC: The land above us looks dubious. Too much tundra. Unless it is bigger than it looks, we will have 1 good town.

IBT: We get Masonry. Debate between Writing, wheel, and Iron. - go for Iron. With 3 archers incoming, I do the wall switcheroo.
Valhalla: Walls->Granary

2470 BC: One of our archers attacks a warrior and loses.

IBT: Our spear do their job and hold off a warrior and 2 archers. The last archer fortifies and the last injured warrior retreats.

2430 BC: I use the archer to attack the archer and again lose. The warrior wins with 1 hp.

IBT: Their 1 hp warrior attacks our 1 hp warrior. We win and become elite with 2 hp. A regular and conscript warrior show up.

2390 BC: We retreat our injured warrior. Sure enough the north is very disappointing.

IBT: Warriors advance.

2350 BC: There is a hut to the north. Forest is cleared speeding the Granary.

IBT: The regular warrior attacks.

2310 BC: Our Elite warrior attacks the Conscript and is back to 1 hp. No leader.

IBT: Nothing

2270 BC: Actually we have an OK fishing village up north. There is a tundra deer and 2 whales.

IBT: Nothing

2230 BC: Warrior fortifies in town. Other warrior is going to pop the hut.

IBT: Nothing

2190 BC: I wish I had some archers for that city :D

IBT: warrior shows up.
Valhalla: Granary-Settler

2150 BC: I pop the hut and we get a single angry Barbarian. I always thought you got more than one.

So not a great turn. We lost our two archers don't have any water or places to settle. We may need to push to the choke whether we want to or not. I want to settle at least the one good town first though.

I always like to rename the first viking city when I play them :D

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Hndy3_BC2150.JPG

PS: Handy did you want to play in Sling3? one of our players couldn't join us. We could slip you in at the end.

PS: Handy did you want to play in Sling3? one of our players couldn't join us. We could slip you in at the end. Will get the next town up on the one tile choke and then build some archers in Valhalla and walls in new town.

We'd love to have you in there Handy!

:lol: Actually I was about to grab it Greebley, but you're fast! If you don't mind, I'll take it tonight Slinger.

I am pretty sure you are up next Yom as we essentially swapped. I would go ahead and play it. Just keep us updated if you can't play for some reason.

Glad your computer is now fixed :)

Actually, there's nothing wrong with my computer. Since about December though, my PC has refused to recognize the C3C disk in the drive, and thus won't let me play it. I've since used my laptop, but sometimes it doesn't recognize it either. I really don't know why it happens, it seems to just come and go (unfortunately, my PC NEVER recognizes it anymore, so it has become tedious to switch computers every time I want to play civ3).

PS: Handy did you want to play in Sling3? one of our players couldn't join us. We could slip you in at the end.

I'd love to play Sling3. Slot me in whereever you like. :D :D :D

YOM - consider this a switch with Greebley and play on.

Yom,

Have you tried cleaning the CD? It may be a scratch or gunk on the CD itself. There was at least one game this worked for me (and another where it didnt). Be careful when drying the CD though to not scratch it.

@Greebley: I've only tried cleaning it with my shirt, isn't there some sort of cd cleaning fluid? If so, would you recommend a particular brand/type?

I used soap and water on the shiny side and dried it right away.

Yom, Do want to play this round, or do you need a skip?

I'm playing it tonight.

Edit: Actually, I didn't have as much time tonight as I thought I did. I'll get it tomorrow night with Sling3. If Barbslinger wants to take it before then, it's fine with me. Otherwise, I'll get it tomorrow night.

Turn 0 - Nothing to do.

Turn 1 - ZzZ...

Turn 2 - Rather than attack Fortress Valhalla, the Mongol warrior fortifies in front of its gates.
I take a chance and attack with our elite warrior for a leader and... no dice, -1 hp.

Turn 3 - Valhalla grows and needs the lux. tax raised. I mm to get the settler in 1 rather than 2.
I'm not sure if they had it last turn, but the Mongols now have Iron Working and we get the tech. in 8. I raise science rate to get in 6 at -3 gpt and 13 gold in the pot.
vet warrior kills conscript barb flawlessly.

Turn 4 - Valhalla:Settler->Archer.
I send the settler to the northern forest 3 spaces away as proposed by Barbslinger.

Turn 5 - Kitten Warriors is founded (I'm sure Handy will think of a better name). Set to barracks in 10.
Decrease science rate. Iron Working in 6 at +0gpt and 6 gold.

Turn 6 - ZzZ... I'm keeping the vet warrior North to keep barb camps from popping up, but you may want to bring him back soon.

Turn 7 - A Mongol archer appears on the forest tile 2 South of Valhalla. Perfect timing, our archer will be ready to attack it in case he doesn't want to risk attacking Fortress Valhalla.

Turn 8 - Valhalla builds an archer and the Mongol archer moves East. Set to another Archer, then Settler (maybe a curragh in 2).

Turn 9 - Mongol archer moves onto Ivory forest tile. Decrease science, IronWorking in 2 at +1gpt.

Turn 10 - It looks like the Archer is heading for the undefended Kitten Warriors. I'll leave it to the next player to decide what to do with him, but I'd let him live a turn, just in case he wants to impale himself on Valhalla and give us a defensive GL:D.

Iron Working is due next Turn. Hopefully there'll be some in sight. If there isn't, I would recommend a curragh to scope out Mongol lands and prepare an archer rush.

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HNDY03_BC1750.SAV)

Edit: Apparently you can attach a .bmp but not show it as an image. Sorry for the small size, but .bmps take up a lot of space.

Roster:
Handy
T_McC
Yom <-just played
Greebley <-swaped with Uom
Barbslinger <- UP

An undefended town in AWDG - very bold. :lol:

Well I nearly grabbed the game, but Barbslingers earlier error in the other game made me check and saved me :lol:

I went before Yom, so I think Barbslinger is up.

[Edit: Cross posted with Handy, so I would have been saved anyway :) ]

[Edit2: And Barbslingers cross posts both of us. ]

I think I'm up? Please verify. If so I got it.

Yom, do you mean only .bmp's show up as images?

Iron could be a real problem. We have only 3 mountains and a hill that could have iron in them.

I wonder if it would be worth sending a unit to the south. We run the risk of running into another civ which would be bad, but it could also be that land is emtpy.

Yeah, Barbslinger. You are up (in case you didn't see the crossposts).

Barbslinger is definitely up.

Next turn is a biggie since Iron comes in. If by luck there is iron in the mountains to the south, we'll want to settle in that direction in hopes of claiming it. That would mean placing the archer rush on hold to build spears to hold the iron town. Then we can take the choke with swords.

If there is no iron down there, we may want to settle to the north, get 4 cities down, & pray for a defensive leader. Once we have an army we can pillage their iron and start to push then back like we did Abe in HNDY02.

Archer rush just seems a low odds play to me.

PS - If you have not started yet - switch that archer in Valhalla to a spear. We'll need spears to escort settlers.
PSS - research Math next for Zeus.

Yom, do you mean only .bmp's show up as images?
I've had no trouble showing .jgp files. Will play when I get home tonight after work. I'll play this first before SGOTM2.
Hoping for iron.

...Hoping for iron.

The lucky iron candle is burning. :D

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HNDY02_luckycandle.gif

How do you do attached images so they are displayed? I didn't see an option to actually display it in the thread. Did I miss something?

It's displayed automatically. My theory is:
1. if you have multiple attachments they won't display
2. if it's too big it won't display

Handy03 – 1750BC –

Preturn – Swap the mined ivory tile to not waste a shield. 7+7+6=20. I really don’t think the archer will attack Valhalla and if we wait to kill him the moguls may send units and I’ll be late healing. E warrior kills him losing 2hp. No leader. Save a couple nickels lowering happy juice to 0%. 1-2-1 on the faces.

IT – There is iron on the closest mountain to use. That lucky candle of Handy’s is working again. Set research to Math in 23 @ 80%, 0gpt. Valhalla - Archer > Spear
[1] 1725 – Leave the tiles alone because the growth in 3 should use ivory tile to pop spear due in 4. 6spt in Valhalla. Northern warrior isn’t as afraid of barbs and would like to go elite so he heads S. Gengis is up wheel, CB and writing. Has spices.

IT – Sure enough an archer comes in from the SE. Need some more workers.
[2] 1700 – Mining completed road in KW.

IT – Archer moves 2 tiles SE of town onto ivory.
[3] 1675 – I was just thinking that the governor will choose 2food instead of ivory now that archer is on it. Re-MM to get spear this turn.

IT – Spear > Archer in Valhalla. Another archer comes up.
[4] 1650 – E Warrior wins losing 1 hp. No leader. Lux to 10%, losing 1gpt.

IT – KW gets its Rax > Archer. Ther are 2 archers hanging about now. Warrior back to heal for another leader go in a few.
[5]1625 – MM to get 10spt with only gathering 1fpt. 2 turn archers. 3 more and it may be time to go hunting. We need a settler too.

IT- The enemy stacks up to get bombard. They’ll come into range next turn.
[6]1600 – No camps up north yet.

IT – They jump on the ivory and another archers shows up.
[7] 1575 – That messes up the 10spt in Valhalla. Back to growth. Research to 50% since we lost the ivory tile gold.

IT – Byz complete colossus. Archers move forward, KW mine completes.
[8] 1550 – Kill one of the archers with an archer losing 1hp. Will wait for the other archer to come up so as not to be exposed. Worker come back 2 squares and will begin road to iron and for next city after archers are dead. Re-do MM for 6spt with 12 shields still needed.

IT – Archers group for d-bombard when I attack, another duo comes up from the south.
[9] 1525 – Archer wins losing 1hp and E warrior goes down to 1hp vs 2 hp and then wins spawing Slingers hero. Now to get 4 cities. The leader fortifies in Valhalla.

IT – New archers move north, 2 tiles from us. Archer > Settler.
[10]1500 – We can get settler and growth in 5 but it kills us not using the ivory gold. With pop growth we have to raise lux and research is down to 10% Math in 41. I really want the growth so we can go for another settler pronto and get an army rolling. I set worker to mining SW of KW but there may be better use for him. He’s only one turn in.

Iron in them there hills, and a leader! :D Very Nice. We needed a break since we have not found water yet.

So - since we want to use the leader - I'll be building spears to fill the army instead of archers. And another quick settler for a 4th city.

Quick Pillage will allow us to catch up & really hurt our enemy and control our continent. (I'm in too many SG's - I can't remember who we are fighting :lol: )


Roster:
Handy <- up Planning to play Tuesday night.
T_McC
Yom
Greebley
Barbslinger <- just played


It's displayed automatically. My theory is:
1. if you have multiple attachments they won't display
2. if it's too big it won't display

Thanks for the tip. :goodjob:

(I'm in too many SG's - I can't remember who we are fighting :lol: )

I think the bigger problem is the same roster of people playing 2 AW games, in different orders. :crazyeye:

Depending on how many Archers we have, one can also use the Spear army to cover an offensive force. I think the pillaging route is more promising, though.

Are we attempting to pre-build Zeus?

Are we attempting to pre-build Zeus?

Good question. We should get it something (Glib or SoZ) started pretty soon. That's one reason I'm not a fan of the archer rush. We don't have a lot of cities. If we have one dedicated to Wonders, and one tying building settlers every so often, we don't have a lot of cities left to build reinforcments in.

Glib - Do we want to build this before SoZ? I pulled this off in a solo AWDG game (Glib & SoZ in the same city in that order). Downside is it delays our offensive push quite a bit. OTOH, if we build Zeus we may well miss out on the Glib, which means Bezerks will come way later than we would like.

So which do we value more - SoZ or Glib? I tend to think Glib is more important in the grand scheme. I'm not sure we win without the Glib. We can win with SoZ coming later, just makes the game longer.

With regards to ARMY, I think pillaging long term would be better than covering archers with the spear army. We pillage them to reduce their output while we improve tiles and enhance our output. We can go offensive when we get some swords (& Acav if we build SoZ first). These 2 units have much better attack odds than archers do. This worked well in HNDY02, should work well here.

With it being demigod it may not be possible to build the GL if we don't dedicate to it right away. Even with the AI ignoring lit it won't be long before the other continent zooms right past us. I would go with GLib 1st. We control the ivory and will get Zeus for sure.
For the army I was even thinking a 2-spear,1-archer combo. It would be a 90% pillager but while it is down there it would be nice to pick off the occasional archer or sword be fore he even gets to us. I might even use him to aid in an archer rush on the choke city. If we can get that town and reinforce with other spears then we will be sitting pretty in taking out Genghis.

Agreed on pre-building the G. Lib. Maybe once we get a 2nd city in the north. City #3 goes to the Iron, city #4 goes North, we form an Army and get to pillaging the Mongols down a peg. Might work better if we build city #3 in the north, then send a settler, a handful of spears and the leader to the Iron. We could then form the army upon founding to help with initial defense.

A two spear + archer army would suck. It would be defense 2 and offense 2, yielding no bonus above the loose units. It could attack twice in the same turn, but once it lost 5 HP it would be attacking at 1.

Check out how many cities Temu has. Last I saw he had 4 (and that was a while ago), so burning down a jungle outpost isn't really going to take much wind out of his sails. If the next stop is his capital, I might be more optimistic about this approach. I think I'm with Handy on this one, an archer rush is high-risk, low-reward.

[Edit: Temu has 6 cities, so its going to get worse before it gets better. Bright spot so far is that he doesn't have Iron. A sword rush could be rather profitable after we build up our side of the continent.]

A two spear + archer army would suck. It would be defense 2 and offense 2, yielding no bonus above the loose units. It could attack twice in the same turn, but once it lost 5 HP it would be attacking at 1.
Point taken, that would suck! My only thoughts were even without the defense bonus it is still 12hp and would not be attacked while pillaging. If it could also take out a few archers for us it would help.

I got it. Plan to build red circles with black borders. I'll check back before I settle, so post objections - but hurry. :D

Okay - I'm waiting for input before I play. Should I change Math (due in 41 to writing, then Lit so we can build the GL? maybe build 2 more spears in Kitten Warrior, then start the GLib / Palace prebuild? If we research Math first, we may miss the GLib I fear.

I'll wait to play until we decide.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HNDY03_1000BC_S.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HNDY03_1000BC_N.JPG

Math is only due in 41 because of the lux required to keep 6 citizens happy. If we go for settler in 5 you'll be able to increase research spending when lux drops. I think it was due in 18 at 50% about 3 turns prior. I would wait it out because there are quite a few beakers in there. It would be a waste because it was on the last turn I dropped to 10%. The prebuild will take enough time to get to 400 shields regardless. We'll have the time for all 3 I think.

What about a sword army? It might be worth the wait.

I think a mini-rush may not be a bad idea. Move our front line troops to that city and raze. Bring a settler and settler. We now have a 1 city front. That is probably his additional settler city so razing it might still be a gain. It is probably guarded by only 2 spear. I wouldn't want to hit his capitol yet, but that town should be easy to remove and gives us clear control of the choak point.

I think 1 on 1 we can do better than we have with the many on 1 and it might be worth taking advantage of that - sword army; build up some swords, push the mongols back.

Thanks for the input on math Barbslinger. As we build cities we can pay more.

Do you agree on keeping research to math Greebley? Not much room for error in this level, so I don't want to go down a wrong path. Let's hash it out until we all agree. We miss the Glib, we probably lose.

Swords may be a good play here. How many turns to scrape together 3 swords?

Pros: Can take the choke, then pillage.

Cons: We wait to start our pillage, so they have the chance to send swords at us before we pillage their iron (if they have any)

It can't take that long to build 3 swords. We can finish settling while we build the road and set things up to get them and then use the sword army to lead the charge. It can easily take out a jungle town.

Math is fine to me. We want cats soon. We can probably get Math, writing and lit before our future prebuild is forced to switch.

Handy, I think the sword army can take out more than just the choke. It can waltz thru enemy territory and take out cities - it is a bit slow as it goes attack, heal, attack, heal but I have no fear of attacking a single spear. Sometimew we can attack twice, sometimes we heal twice. We avoid the capitol and its heavier defenses. I would love to go for the towns before they get to size 7.

Ok - I'll leave research alone. We won't have 4 cities by the end of my turns.
Swords sound good, and we can change later if we feel we need to.

Handy, I think the sword army can take out more than just the choke. It can waltz thru enemy territory and take out cities - it is a bit slow as it goes attack, heal, attack, heal but I have no fear of attacking a single spear. Sometimew we can attack twice, sometimes we heal twice. We avoid the capitol and its heavier defenses. I would love to go for the towns before they get to size 7.

I agree with this. If we build a sword army, we need to raze (or capture if they won't flip).

Playing now

Double Trouble

Switch KW to spear for the army.
leave research on math

IBT
Another regular archer comes into view. That’s 3 in the borders now.

Turn 1 1475
Borders expand.

IBT
KW – spear - spear

Turn 2 1450
Kill 2 archers. No promotions.
Now at +0 gpt

Turn 3 1425
Move stack towards lone archer. Don’t want him to stack up with others.

Turn 4 1400
Kill the lone archer. I can see 2 units on the Iron. Veteran Archer & Regular Warrior.

IBT
AI units move off the mountain
Valhalla – settler – spear
Losing 1 GPT

Turn 5 1375
Move units into forest S of Valhalla so the AI can’t get defensive bonus. I’m hoping to kill these guys on the way to Irontown.
Drop lux a notch since settler drops pop. Math in 36.
Kill the veteran archer. Don’t attack the warrior since I want to keep our stack together

IBT
Mongols ask to talk, a good sign. :D
They have 6 cities and Wheel, CB, Writing.

Turn 6 1350
:sleep:

IBT
New archer moves to the iron mountain
KW – spear - worker

Turn 7 1325
Settler arrives at the site of Iron town.
Mongol archer on mountain dies attacking sword.

IBT
Valhalla – spear – settler (due in 5 grow in 4 to pop 6).
Mongols have warrior on flats & mountain

Turn 8 1300
Found Copenhagen ->walls
We really need some more workers.
Kill 2 warriors near Valhalla.
We own the mountain – for now. I think spears can hold the mountain against archers. Swords are tougher.
The worker is S of Valhalla building a road.
Lone archer approaches Copenhagen. If they keep coming in 1’s and 2’s we can handle it.
Crank sliders to 40/10, Math due in 27 +2 gpt.
That was a good turn for us. :D

Turn 9 1275
Now 2 archers fortified in the jungle east of Copenhagen

IBT
2 archer stack moves to forest W of Cope. 1 vet & 1 reg.
KW – worker – spear (5).

Turn 10 1250
We now have 6 spears.
Our archers are 3 to 1 favorites against the veteran unfortified archers on a forest, so I will attack.
Kill both archers – 1 promotion to elite.
Crap – we have neighbors to the east the Byzantines
I guess they settled IBT.
I can see their city, but they do not show up on F4 – yet.
They will be coming at Copenhagen from both sides soon. I wonder which civilization came over on a galley.

Notes:
Math due in 25.
Spear escort & worker are on the forest N of Copenhagen. The additional worker is in Valhalla & can join them next turn to build a road & chop walls.
Copenhagen is working forest to get walls quickly at the cost of slow growth.
The Byz showing up so soon complicate things a bit. We can’t really afford it, but perhaps we need a dinky boat to map our continent. You could switch Valhalla before you hit enter & waste no shields. This would delay the settler though, and we could use the cash from a 4th city to bump research.

Being the less aggressive of the bunch - I’m leaning towards 4th settler and a spear army ASAP to map & pillage since we now have 2 opponents on our lands. Talk me out if it – or overrule me. :lol: I just don’t want to fight a sword war if we can help it. We’ll have plenty of chances at a 2nd leader if we can make sure we face only archers.
T Should we start the Glib pre-build after the spear comes out of KW?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HNDY03_1250BC.JPG


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HNDY03_mongols.JPG

Ah well. Thems the breaks.

I still think the sword army is the way to go. Until they have pikes, it can do damage to towns and it can pick off archers and such.

Looks like our first "goal" is to hold both chokes. Won't happen right away though/

The point is that is we can knock out some cities we will have less units coming after us. The sword army can still do some pillaging before attacking cities if we want.

If too many units are streaming toward us we can fall back to the sword army defending our cities. One problem with spear armies is that the troops can just go around the city with the army making it nearly useless. The sword army can pick off units as they go by. I would like to hamstring the AI if we possibly can though. Our territory is poor and just sitting there while the AI builds up with us waterless could easily be a loss.

There is one benefit. There is a 2/3 chance we can get to the GLib without needing a boat if we miss it ourselves. A good way to catch up.

Wow! That means dromons! Lets NOT go take a look at them. The later we get a two front war the better. They must be to the east and it will take a lot of cat,buckets and cannons to ding the dromons up.
Looks like T gets the pleasure of getting the roads down, securing iron and building a city and an army. Then we have to rock Genghis. I think we can take him at the trickle rate he is giving us. I hope this trickle we're getting isn't an indication of crappy lands down his way. I'm thinking the sooner we can get a sword or a spear army pillaging, the better. I don't think we have to worry about Byz attacking from the town for a while. Let her live in her dormant state for a while.

I hope this trickle we're getting isn't an indication of crappy lands down his way.

The trickle from the Mongol's is unusual. Either the monglos have crappy land, or they came over on a boat - or both. It really shocked me to see that Byz city so soon. Would be really unusual to have 3 of us on this continent with a tiny map. Now I'm second guessing my map settings - but it looks tiny based on the mini map. I wish F8 showed all the game settings.

I got it, and will play tomorrow.

After the settler, I'll build Swords to put in the Army. Upgrading our Warriors is not really an option, we can't make enough money.

I kind of suspect the Byz came by boat. If they didn't we might be on a Pangaea. (Could have a 3-1 split on Continents, though.) I'll aim for the hill that pulls an Oasis. Might as well have a strong defensive front against the Byz.

I also wonder whether that city of Temu's didn't come from a hut. Unless there's much better terrain that we can't see, it looks like a lousy place to build a 2nd city. Or it could be claiming rubber for 2000 years from now. :rolleyes:

So I joined Betazed's 5CC AWE :lol: Fortunately, its not on a huge map (actually its on a small map which I think is the right size to try this).

We have four players; if anyone else is crazy enough to be in 3 AWE at once there is probably room :D

(Actually, with one on a tiny map and one a 5cc, it should be no more load than 2 normal AW games. My SG schedule is definitely full again however)

So I joined Betazed's 5CC AWE :lol: Fortunately, its not on a huge map (actually its on a small map which I think is the right size to try this). Yes, I saw that. :crazyeye: I thought about it for a moment and knew I had to get cracking on GOTM31. I'm working on a personal deity and a conquest DG too.

So I joined Betazed's 5CC AWE :lol:
We have four players; if anyone else is crazy enough to be in 3 AWE at once there is probably room :D


I thought about it, but I'm in 3 SG's already. It is very tempting.

HNDY03 - The Scourge is Set!

1250 BC (0)
No units in sight, and the settler will auto-complete on growth to size 6.

1225 BC (1)
Three Mongol Archers approach, I retreat our Archer.

Theadora is not on F4.

1200 BC (2)
Arabs complete Oracle.

Settler completes, Valhalla set to Spear.

I'll let the Archers attack Copenhagen against defensive bombardment.

1175 BC (3)
Win 2 on the IT, and the third archer fortifies.

Walls complete, Copenhagen set to Barracks. No defensive bombard for him, I'll attack. We now have an Elite Archer.

Adjust lux tax to 0%. Math in 17.

1150 BC (4)
Settler moves to hill, accompanied by elite Spear. Mongols approach with another archer, but don't attack into the woods.

1125 BC (5)
Valhalla completes Spear, goes to Settler as a pre-build for a Sword. Scratch that, the Pyramids as a pre-build.
Kitten completes Spear, goes to Granary as a pre-build for a Sword. We need to get the Army out now!

Found Reykjavik on the Hill, set to worker. We need more, and we can cover the city from Valhalla.

Build empty Army. Turn research off to accumulate 60 gold.

We still don't know the Byz.

1100 BC (6)
Kill two Mongol Archers, and reveal that the choke point city is defended by a regular Spear, and contains Spices in it's radius. I'm wondering about an Archer rush now ...

We start roading the Iron. Will be online in 5. We can complete two Swords soon, and have enough cash to upgrade a Warrior for the third.

1075 BC (7)
Slide Lux to 10% to keep everyone working in Valhalla.

1050 BC (8)
The Mongols have a boat. Didn't drop anything off, though.

1025 BC (9)
The Mongols have settled another city N of the choke. I suspect a settler pair is on board the boat. Win w/Elite archer against Mongol Archer in the south.

1000 BC (10)
Mongols drop another archer off up north, and the Byz complete the MoM.

Thank you, Ctrl-R. The Iron comes in. Valhalla will complete Sword next turn, and I upgraded Slinger's Hero to a Sword. We now have 2 gold remaining.

Vet Warrior in Kitten kills archer. Elite Archer barely wins in the south. That was so much fun I kill another Archer in Mongol territory. Move Spear over to cover and lo and behold, we're right next to the choke point city. If we capture that, we have a garrison already in place. :)

Final Notes:
Well, the timing on all of that got completely screwed up. Kitten will complete it's Sword on turn 2, then it's time to rock-and-roll. The choke point city of the Mongols should fall easily to a Sword army.

Remember to turn research back on. And once our cities are connected, chop the forest in front of Copenhagen, so we don't give a defensive bonus to attacking units.

Final Kill Ratio: 9-0. We still don't have contact with the Byz.

Sounds great T. Whoever is next should have a hoot.

Roster:
Handy
T_McC

Yom <-Up but laptop has problems. Hey Yom www.dellauction.com :lol:
Greebley <- go ahead & we'll swap Yom to after you (if his laptop ever gets fixed)

Barbslinger

Greebley & Yom - First one of you to post an I GOT IT is up the other one can follow.

Sword Army :hammer:

To whomever plays next:

Check the MM of Kitten. I can't remember whether I saved before or after I configured it to complete its sword in 2. Giving it the extra shields does not prevent Valhalla from building its sword on turn 1.

I am going to play sling3 first and then this one tomorrow if we haven't heard from Yom. That will give Yom time for his I got it - Yom; post a got it if you want it

[Edit: Actually a silly statement, I know you want it; a better statement would be if you can get it :( I take it cleaning the CD was not sufficient. You may be able to get a replacement disk without needing to rebuy. Not sure how that would work though. In any case, good luck on it]

Ok, I got it. Will start playing now.

Preturn: Science is turned on - math in 10 turns. I Let Kitten have one of the squares of our capitol. It will now make the sword in 2 turns instead of 3.

IBT: A mongol archer appears.
Valhalla: Sword->Settler

975 BC: Archer is killed.

IBT: An Archer attacks our spear and unfortunately wins. I pull back our archers for now.
Kitten: Sword->Sword

950 BC: Army complete. Unfortunately, I have to lower science to keep Valhalla happy and because of new units. Math goes from 8 to 16 turns. Hopefully we can speed it up again soon. MM Valhalla and kitten so Valhalla can grow in 5 turns.

IBT: Archer that attacked us before is seen.

925 BC: We kill the archer. Army advances. I decide to take the defender off the Iron mountain. It makes it more likely to spot Byzantium.

IBT: No real movement

900 BC: Things go well. Tatu grew to size 2 last turn so we get to keep it. Additionally the Mongols had a LOT of workers in the town. Well 5 but that is a lot for 900 BC.

IBT: Archer from boat lands near Tatu instead of our homelands and another archer appears.

875 BC: Kill landed archer with army.

IBT: Other archer fortifies.
Valhalla: Settler->Sword

850 BC: Our army attacks Hovd (Hozd?) and wins auto-destroying the town and takes out the boat as well.
Going to settle the tip of our continent - err actually that is not a good idea as that town requires culture to be useful.
Tatu lowered unit costs so we can raise science again.

IBT: Two archer move into our lands.

825 BC: We have a winner! Our elite archer gets a leader. Decide to settle that town after all. I also decide to change Valhalla and Kitten to settlers to get to 8 cities ASAP.

IBT: Whoops, forgot to check happiness last turn and we get rioting.

800 BC: Not much.

IBT: Two archer show up.

775 BC: Attack both archers. Army Attacks Almarikh and kills a spear.

IBT: We get a Palace part.

750 BC: We capture Almarikh, though our Army is badly injured. Since we have another town I switch Valhalla back to building a sword first.

Notes:
Three Mongol towns are gone! Only 4 remain.
We have a leader for another army and 6 of 8 towns.
The fortified spear is defending the injured archers. They can go back to Tatu if they want.
Once the two workers North of the gems finish, send one worker onto the gems and build a colony.
No contact with the Byzantines!!!! Amazing.
Another sword army could help. We can then destroy the Mongols and move immediately on to the destruction of the Byzantines :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: One can play AW defensive or offensive. This is an offensive situation in my book. Kill the AI before it gets big and strong. With 2 armies we qualify as stronger than them.
All in all the turn went very well for us.
This start is starting to look like a Pangea start. I can't tell for sure but there is land very near by. Astronomy looks like it won't be needed. It is still possible the two pieces of land won't be connected, just very close.
There will be a picture next post.

Notes on Map.

The red arrow is where I would send the settler already on its way. That point gets 2 whale and a deer which is not bad for a fishing village.

I would send the settler from kitten to one of the two spots indicated by the green. The SE one gets a whale.

We are getting our 8 towns earlier since we own Almarikh so I would switch Copenhagen to a sword to fill the second sword army faster. I also forgot to set Almarikh's production and it is building a regular spear.

I would grab the gems in the blue circle using one of the Mongol workers (colony) currently building the road to the mountain.

This start is starting to look like a Pangea start.

If this is pangaea, all the more glory for us! Boats - we don'tneed no stinkin' boats. :p

I played a quick little Pang map solo before this game, but I thought I changed the setting when I rolled the start. :mischief:

EDIT This SG is the last game I started. I pulled up C3C and selected "New Game" and it came up continents 70% water, tiny map, vikes, DG. So I'm pretty sure we are playing continents.

Anyone lurkers included know how to crack a save file to see what map type this is?

Great call on the sword army. :thumbsup: I am unworthy.

Roster:
Handy
T_McC
Yom <- Surfing www.dellauction.com
Greebley <- great call on swords
Barbslinger <- UP (unless YOM posts he's back in action)

I like your map. If we ever get a leader for the Pentagon (or Heroic Epic) we could rush it in the city farthest north to get the culture to pull in the 2 whales.

Oooohhh, I'm up! I'm up! I'm up!

What do you mean it's not my turn? :cry: You NEVER let me have any fun. :suicide:

:lol:

(The amazing thing is, I'm the one in the group who doesn't have kids.)

Have to d/l the save, but sounds spectacular. Two sword armies should see the Iron-less Mongols off, and then we can lead with the armies against the Byz. Unless she brings a nice stack upon contact, I think we are best served to have our two armies work together against the Mongols, rather than sending one to each front. Get Temu out of here ASAP.

Don't we have 3 luxuries now?

@Handy: Any lurker could easily tell the landform by watching the replay. I don't really care to know, but whatever.

Peeked at the save:

Valhalla can complete its Sword next turn with a little MM.

I don't think Mining the Cow (that sounds kind of dirty :cringe: ) at Valhalla does us any good in Despotism.

The fastest way to get 3 Swords may be to turn research off and use the cash to upgrade a Warrior. We can make 15 gpt with research at 0%. We can get Valhalla to 10 spt, and have the third army ready in 3, if we can get the Warrior from the Peninsula into a Barracks that quickly. Doesn't look possible, so probably shouldn't turn research off.

The city to the SW of Ta-Tu is (obviously) Karakorum, so I'd expect some heat from there.

Handy03 – 750BC –

Preturn – Looks nice! I don’t think mining a cow does anything either. So I stop and will send worker elsewhere. Get the sword in one in Valhalla by swapping to ivory one turn. Move up to pillage mine and road on hill near their obvious capital.

IT – Valhalla – Sword>Settler. KW-settler>He prebuild for GL. I don’t want to miss it on demigod.

[1] 730 – Notice that there was a settler active going for north tip. Do I get rid of the settler build in Valalla? I do by swapping to sword. Looks like the army will be built late. I don’t want to miss GL letting KW spend time building up from pop2 to get a sword.

IT – Army gets some healing done.

[2] 710 – Change copenghagen to sword in 6. Move elite towards Almakar? See Krackatorium defended by a spear.

IT – 2 archers are now outside of Almakar.

[3] 690 – Found Oslo. Army kills both archers without a scratch. Swords in 4.

IT- FP message. Ta-Tu-Walls>Rax.

[4] 670 – Gems are in. 6 pop Valhalla still needs the lux but it gets a taxman since sword is due next turn. The pillaging begins at Krackator. There is an elite spear and a sword near renamed Alky.

IT – 1 archer comes out of Krackalaugh. Sword builds in Copenhagen. Set to spear. This sucks without water. Krackator has water. Byz have the lighthouse. It won’t be long now.

[5] 650- Oslo founded and army has 2 swords in it heading to pick up its 3rd. Valhalla is going to starve one turn to get a worker now.

IT – Byz get artemis.

[6] 630 – Army is nearly loaded near Alky. 1st army is getting ready to pillage the mines on the hills but I’m second guessing thinking we may want this town for an FP. Science adjusted to get writing in 4.

IT – Reykjavik-Rax>Sword with 2 forests chopping.

[7] 610 – 1st army takes out 2 spears, one of them reg, from Krackky. Next army attacks next turn. A leader shot at Ta-Tu on a lone archer goes nowhere, we win though.

IT – Not much. But coming.
[8] 590 – Krackytown is captured with only one pop remaining. Genghis is down to 3 cities. Workers being sent to bring up water.

IT – Writing>Lit. Valhalla-Spear>Sword. Copie- Spear>Spear. Wishing we had HBR.

[9] 570 – Kill an archer that had showed up at Kracky. There is an archer on a hill and the army in Kracky is 6/14. Will he attack?

IT – No, he pillages. Byz build the pyramids and sail a boat by Oslo.

[10] Peek at F4. Yup. L. Try to get CB for 45g. No deal. It’s war. Clear all visable Mongols. Well, I have a group of workers going for water. It will take two jungle chops to get it to Ta-tu. Then more work. I would also improve the BG for KW to use when it grows for GL building. GL has only 43 shields to it. I might consider merging a worker and getting those mines down a priority with lit due in 9. The picture was taken before I played turn 10.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Handy03-550Byz.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Handy03-550BCa.jpg

Anyone lurkers included know how to crack a save file to see what map type this is?
Use Ainwood's Seedbeast (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=87973).

Are we prepared for the Byzantine assault?

Ideally we want to continue our asault on the Mongols, it is probably ony a short while longer to their destruction, but not if we will lose cities.

Prehaps splitting the armies, if we feel we are not ready. One continues the assault and the other helps vs the attacks from Byzantium.

Ideal though might be going all out with the armies vs the Mongols to destroy them now. while the archers and spear hold the defensive line and then bring the armies back and start the assault.

Bad would be to send both armies back. We lose all our momentum and advantage. and allow the mongols to recover.

Are we prepared for the Byzantine assault?

Ideally we want to continue our asault on the Mongols, it is probably ony a short while longer to their destruction, but not if we will lose cities.

Prehaps splitting the armies, if we feel we are not ready. One continues the assault and the other helps vs the attacks from Byzantium.

Ideal though might be going all out with the armies vs the Mongols to destroy them now. while the archers and spear hold the defensive line and then bring the armies back and start the assault.

Bad would be to send both armies back. We lose all our momentum and advantage. and allow the mongols to recover. I think for the GL to work we're going to have to keep the mongols around. We're going to have to let them keep a city.

There are 2 AI left other than the mongols, correct? We may want to allow them to keep their last city until we finish the GLib, but can then destroy them as they will fall behind.

So let them keep their weakest city - Agreed.
I want to destroy their capitol before we let them alone :hammer:

I aagree that line. Once GL comes in they are dead. Capitol is gone. Karatorum, or whatever it is, I was calling it Krackator was killed last night.

I might even think about gifting them the marsh city and taking the others if the others are better land. Oh wait a minute, can't gift unless we're at peace. Can we give straight peace, give the city and then redeclare during same turn?

I think the Mongols might have another city on an island, but I'm not sure. I don't think it would be any problem to leave them with 1 city. Even if a city flips we'll have more than enough military to quickly re-claim.

I nominate Karakorum for our FP. We have such a weird shape that I think this will just about get us a 2nd core.

If we do keep the Mongols around, they will be useful until we are even in technology. The minute we have to research at anything but last, they have to go. We should also keep researching even though we are trying to build the G.Lib. We don't have any use for the money in Despotism, unless we want to really gamble and have a big wad of cash waiting to upgrade Archers to 'Zerks.

Which brings me to my next point: Maybe we should build some boats and find the 4th civ?

Roster:
Handy <- UP
T_McC
Yom
Greebley
Barbslinger

Boats sound like a good idea. We are seafaring after all. :lol:

We're a Steamroller baby, and we're gonna roll all over you...

Pre flight looks good.
We need a boat – but it needs to avoid Dromons
Irrigate

IBT
Alky – walls – boat (15)
Reykjavik – sword - sword

Turn 1 550
Moving

IBT
Mongols want to talk.
He has 3 cities left, has no iron & is up W, CB, COL, MM

Turn 2 510
Kill archer
Kill 2 spears & Capture Kazan

IBT
Oslo – worker –walls.

Turn 3 490
Kill an archer with army. Other Army rests.

IBT
Spot 3 fireboats in various places. No sign of Byz troops yet.
Valhalla - sword – settler (pop 6)

Turn 4 470
Army kills archer. Other Army rests.

IBT
No fireboat attacks – I guess they are mapping.
Stockholm – worker – walls.
Arabs finish Hanging Gardens.

Turn 5 450
Kill 2 archers & spot furs.
I’ll take the southern city & pin Mongols in the north of their little Peninsula.
Citizen @ Alky finally ready to get to work.

IBT
Byz start Sun Tzu

Turn 6 430
Move next to Fur City – home of discount furs.

IBT
Literature -> The Wheel
Byz start the Glib

Turn 7 410
Hostile Take over of Fur City nets us 2 furs and 2 employees.
Mongols are down to 1 city, so we’ll stop here. I hope the only horses on the continent don’t wind up under the other city. :lol:
Offer Theodora a fur if she’ll show us her….no dice. :p

IBT
Fire boats attack fur city and wound the army garrisoned there quelling resistance. :mad:
Karakorum – walls – barracks
Valhalla – settler – sword
Copenhagen – spear – spear

Turn 8 390
Pop spear in Fur City to get Pop to 1 and to free up the army.
Army kills archer & moves to mountain to peek at the Mongols lone city.
Still no units from the Byzantine city. Could be their only city on this continent. Army moves out next turn to find out.
52 turns to the Glib.

IBT
Fur City – spear – walls

Turn 9 370
Armies begin the march to the Byzantines.
Fur city is pop 1 and has a spear & archer fortified. You can chop a temple (after we get CB) so it does not flip.
Wheel in 2 +17 GPT

IBT
Byz start Leo’s

Turn 10 350
Mine in KW drops the Glib to 42 turns. May want to join some workers here to speed this up.
:lol: The Mongols drop what is probably their lone archer from a Galley next to Fur City and we attack with our lone Elite and get this:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HNDY03_350leader.JPG

Leader is sent towards Karakorum. FP I guess. He can reach Karakorum next turn. The citizen in Karakorum will get happy when the road brings in the luxuries in 6 turns if not before then.
We have 11 cities and can found one next turn.
*Fur City has an archer & a spear as a garrison. There is a sword headed that way you can park on the mountain next to the Mongols lone city as a spy & to kill settlers that wander out.
*Jungle chop chain gang finishes next turn. You can then irrigate over the mine to get Valhalla water.
*Wheel is due in 1, then maybe CB in 4 running a surplus.
*May want to join worker to KW after they mine the grass to hasten the Glib. KE is size 4 and grows in 6.
*The Byz started the Glib in 430BC, and we don’t know how big their city is.
*Dinky boat due in 6 in Alky.
*Park a sword on the mountain S of the Mongol capital & workers will not leave the city to improve tiles.

350 bc

Roster:
Handy
T_McC <-up
Yom
Greebley
Barbslinger


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HNDY03_350BC.JPG

BYZ START GL! That's not good at all. :( Well, we can attempt to get some workers to merge and mine but I think we're shot. I had 43 shields when I handed off, you probaby put in 65-75 shields for 100-110 total. Even if we can get it to 10 shields it would be around 30 turns. I know that DG AI get a discount so it may be a lost cause. I'm still hoping though.

BYZ START GL! That's not good at all. :( Well, we can attempt to get some workers to merge and mine but I think we're shot. I had 43 shields when I handed off, you probaby put in 65-75 shields for 100-110 total.

yeah - we have 43 turns left, and we are pulling 7 shileds, so we lack about 301 shields (43x7=301). That gives us a 25% head start discount, but @ DG the AI gets a 30% discount IIRC. And we have no idea how many shields they are pulling in that city. Mine & merge may get it for us, but it will be close if we do get it.

That means if there building in a 7 shield city it will take 40 turns. 400*70% = 280 shields. It's a little farfetched but we could disband some units in it. That might shave some turns. It's really a tough call. I would do everything I could to get it. If we don't we will be left in the dust. I would use the workers bringing water up to do a tile per 2 turns and send the rest to GL build to mine then merge. If we have spare units I would disband. Byz is building and has built wonders. They switched the SZ build once, so it is now in one of the better cities. The GL could be being built in a crapper city. Let's do all we can.

@Barbslinger: Disbanding units and chopping forests don't help wonder builds, remember?

I wouldn't worry too much about losing the GL. We can't get production in Kitten Warriors that high due to a lack of fresh water, but have we forgotten the power of our armies? We should be able to get our sword army over there and pillage the hell out of the city they're building the GL in. Granted, it may take 20 turns to get there, but by the time we're done, it'll be making 1-3 spt, tops :D.

I am also not worrried. We can take the GLib city if they build it with our two armies. It wasn't the capitol was it (even if it was 2 sword armies can probably get it eventually.

I think we should go for Byz Iron to prevent pikes and take cities if we can. Even if it is Attack-heal-attack-heal, we should be able to deal with pikes. Ideal would be to seriously damage them before muskets.

Our window of opportunity is not huge. I would continue the assault and take out at least some of the weaker Byz cities.

Our window of opportunity is not huge. I would continue the assault and take out at least some of the weaker Byz cities.

Yes - the 2 armies are on the way towards the Byz. There is an archer, spear & soon will be a sword @ Fur City.

We need max research I guess the wheel on MM to build galleys to get to the other continent. We'll need more leaders for that since our 3 sword armies are too big for galleys.

We need to get there before they get too far ahead. If they have too many strong attack (MI) nearby, they will kill the army on the insertion turn.

I think we could just take out a town direct from sea with our berserkers and then assemble the armies that same turn by moving the boats into the town. There IS no insertion turn with the vikings.

FP is probably worth building immediately, but the next leader we may not want to fill the army as you say.

I suggest concentrating workers on kitten and merging in workers to get our production up now if we do want the GLib. We may also want to switch tatu to a worker. We seem short.

I think we could just take out a town direct from sea with our berserkers and then assemble the armies that same turn by moving the boats into the town. There IS no insertion turn with the vikings.

FP is probably worth building immediately, but the next leader we may not want to fill the army as you say.

I suggest concentrating workers on kitten and merging in workers to get our production up now if we do want the GLib. We may also want to switch tatu to a worker. We seem short.

yeah - I was hoping to get an army over there sooner rather than later. Bezerks are a long way off if we miss Glib.

Still - we are in good shape for this game. :D
We should control our continent in the BC's if the Byz don't have too many cities down.

There is a 6-pack of workers chopping jungle near Tatu. The Tatu barracks is due in 4, so we should finish that before we switch to worker builds. Also, after the boat is done Alky can build some workers. We have a lot of roads to build & irrigation to do.

I got it. And will play tomorrow morning.

Don't read further if you don't like spoilers!! Info about your current game....


The world your playing on is 2 large contients with 2 tiny islands. Those Dromons are nasty aren't they?!?

HNDY03 - Purple Menace

350 BC (0)
Our leader's name is HUBBA ?!? Boy, that inspires me. :rolleyes:

We have 4 lux on our continent, so we are good for Happies. We are way behind in tech, and I think the G.Lib is an exercise in futility. At least it will turn into the SoZ. In fact, I just switch over now. The Byz are building the Library in Constantinople. No shot for us.

Swap Ta-Tu to a Settler. At least a couple of more spots to drop in, and the city really doesn't grown at any bigger than size 1 right now.

I do tend to believe that is the lone Byz city on this continent. Sliders are proper.

330 BC (1)
The Byz are going to drop something in the south, keep an eye on them.

The Wheel comes in, set to CB in 4 at +16 gpt. Then will run deficit for another tech on my watch.

Found Birka, start on a worker.

Leader will rush FP next turn.

310 BC (2)
Byz just wander around. Rush FP in Karakorum, let's see what effect that has on our economy. (43 w/14 corruption).

290 BC (3)
We now get 48 w/17 corruption. I think that's worse?

270 BC (4)
Turn down research and get CB with just Scientists.

250 BC (5)
CB in, set for Mysticism in 4 at +7 gpt. I'm beelining for Monarchy, then we should be able to research faster.

Oslo takes an 18-shield whip towards a Temple.

Kill a Mongol Archer.

230 BC (6)
Byz drop off a vet MDI next to our Wonder city. This could be interesting.

Our Sword wins and goes Elite.

We burn Sardica to the ground, but get no money or slaves. :( There is another Byz city further south.

Dinky boat built, runs like Hell away from the Dromons.

Lux tax goes to 10% to accomodate Valhalla at size 6.

210 BC (7)
I think there are only two Byz cities on this continent, so with two Armies we should be safe until 'zerks.

190 BC (8)
Moving both settlers to their intended destinations, approaching the last Byz city on our continent.

Again, can get Mysticism on turn 4 w/just Scientists.

170 BC (9)
Mysticism in, set for Map Making in 6 at -6 gpt. We'll have the cash to upgrade a couple of Dinkys, so we can find the other continent.

Army wins 1 vs. Byz Spear, will have to fortify and fight another day. The city is size 1, so Byz will have to spend some cash to build another unit.

150 BC (10)
Found Aarhus and Stavenger, each set to Workers.

Our empire is connected, and we have an irrigation path through the jungle.

Final Notes:
We are starting to research techs that Temu doesn't have. Soon time for him to go.

I leave Kitten set for the SoZ, it is due in 4 turns. We could always switch back to the G.Lib. The worst-possible case scenario is that we spend 100 shields too much on the SoZ. I just think we cannot out-build Constantinople. Since we don't have any Horses on this continent, AC are our only possibility for mounted units. With free military we are fairly safe from the Byz invasions, and can concentrate on building infrastructure. The good news is that we are only 9 above Monarchy unit support, despite having no fresh water.

The Byz are definitely based overseas. We can hack our way through the jungle and own our continent rather easily. Problem is, we have only 1/3 the pop that the Byz do. They must be throwing down with the Arabs as well, and winning.

Tech
Beeline @ max to MM so we can try to insert an army on the other side?

We also need to try establish a kill zone so the AI will land near the same location. KW, the Wonder city, or Fur City may is a guess @ where they will want to attack.

No word from YOM, so Greebley can go ahead.

Roster:
Handy
T_McC
Yom
Greebley <- UP
Barbslinger


FWIW - we are playing continents according to.Seedbeast (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=1857550#post1857550) Thanks Gogf for the tip. :D

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HNDY03_350BC_seed_beast_fixed.JPG

Some more FWIW from the OCN Calculator (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=1839084#post1839084)

no FP

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HNDY03_350BC_OCN_noFP.JPG

With FP

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HNDY03_350BC_OCN_wFP.JPG

I guess I'll go start a solo game & quit spamming the server with jpegs. :p

Not much to say, keep pushing workers. We have a lot of land but most of it is kind of lousy.

I think once we find the Arabs, Temu has got to go. No War Weariness from his citizens will be nice.

We are fairly safe, even by AI sea-invasion standards since our two Armies can each cover 1/2 the empire. So we can push infra much earlier than usual and are better able to afford an early swap to Monarchy.

I did find that the landmass west of Alky is an island. Nice terrain, but will be horribly corrupt for us. We are already above our OCN for a Tiny map, and should be able to place 3-4 more cities on our landmass that can be more lightly defended than can cities on another island.

We may have 1/3 the population of the Byz, but we have more cities! We could catch up pretty quick!

I checked, but someone should confirm, that the SoZ would not trigger a Despotism GA for us. I think for our traits there is no auto-GA wonder.

----

I'm moving to a new job, and will be off-line until at least Thursday the 27th. Swap or skip as appropriate.

Unfortunate the Byzantines are not on our continent.

I got it and will start playing now.

Preturn: It may be incredibly stupid, but I am going to try for the GLib since we can easily fall back to the statue of zeus, The AI doesn't always build mines. It is possible to outrace the AI if you boost your shields to max.

Early:
Dyracchuim (however it is spelled is destroyed and only the Mongols share our continent.
Switch several towns to Catapults. We have to stop these Dromon

Mid:
The dromons are tearing us apart. we lose our connection to the furs. Get Map making and start on Construction (we need aquaducts!). To many cities not on rivers.
I destroy the Mongols. They are pests. If the long shot works and we get the GLib we need to meet the Arabs.

Late: Sure enough we don't get the Great Library so I switch to the statue; we get it next turn. You were right TMcC, we missed by 17 turns and couldn't have gotten it no matter what we did.

Notes:

Exasperating turns with little to do other than get bombarded... We are still reconnecting the furs. We have plenty of units. I would get monarchy or currency and build up infrastructure - Libraries, Markets, workers, and especially aquaducts, and settle the rest of the island. I think we should avoid too much military for now, so we can keep science high.

Not sure I played well. Poly might have been the better choice over construction (but our core cities are really hurting with the size limit so maybe not). Not sure killing the Mongols was right either. Well done is done.

Well, I think we can still win. If we can build up our infra enough to get some real research going and get to a point of having 4-5 pillaging armies. It's going to be a long haul and the Byz navy will be a pest. Plenty o'cats. I'm wondering if it is possible to plant a dromon bait city? A city with weaker defense that they can just bomb to their hearts content.

Ya, we own the whole island and can (hopefully) win as you say. We will need time to build up our economy and will be the underdogs for a while. Our nation feels pretty pathetic at the moment - mostly I think due to the lack of fresh water in our core.

Roster:
Handy
T_McC
Yom <- skip till laptop works
Greebley
Barbslinger <- UP

We'll need some luck to get armies over to the other continents past all the Dromons. With cats & galleys perhaps we can bomb & sink some.

We also have to figure out how to get leaders/armies with noone to fight :lol:

Pre-turn 50AD – Change the Stockholm temple to harbor and thought about changing the oslo one too but then I remembered the whales. It will get a pop rush for the good of all at 20s left. I then thought the the whales weren’t worth it until I realized the blubber is worth a few shields. So, let’s go whale hunting with a temple to make sure it’s OK by the people. I’m really not quite sure what the galley in Valhalla would do except die by the dromon cannon fire. Are we going to search for Byz? Cruise there sealane? Once we see where they are coming from we’ll know where to find them. I certainly would not put troops in it. However on introspection, we need to get armies there soon! I’ll let it complete and then try to sneak it city to city until it can get to where it needs to be. Looks like the fur road near Karakorum will be hooked in one. Need some defense to protect the road. Kara goes to rax. I’ll steer the road N to keep it from enemy fire after it completes. A couple of galleys go to cats. Ulaan (renamed) needs food so it goes to temple. Water can’t get there fast enough. Nice to see the plains in the core irrigated. The worker in the jungle. Copenhagen goes to a future zerk. Wish I knew what the upgrade cost was. Tech path looks like const>curr> poly> monarchy > head to zerks. KW is one 1 to zeus and then a settler.

IT – Dromons do there thing and ding the army. KW-ZEUS>Settler. Stockholm-Harbor to grow>temple like before. Maybe it can be a market when the time comes.

[1] 70AD – Get 2 hits on a dromon near Karakorum. Notice Theodora is ahead a bunch in tech. We’re up in cities 15-12. Maybe someday, not today we will punish here for her dromon attacks. Swap spear for archer on fur road. Send workers to make a better road to fur. Move a few workers and fortify troops. Decide on harbor for Ulaan. There is one sea tile it can grow off of. Swap KW and Valhalla tiles for less waste and growth. Was going to swap Valhalla to HE for a duct but saw the waste. It will go HE after this galley.

IT – Valhalla-galley>HE for duct. Kazan-cat>wkr, Copenhagen – Archer>Settler to coincide with growth in 8. Byz wanted to talk, I hung up and she fired only twice and then took off east. Is she at war with Arabia?

[2] 90AD – Galley goes to choke city to cross to eastern sea. Aarhus road done going to raze site to mine. BTW, sci-sli makes no diff on 80-100%

IT – Dromons fire 4 times but continue a move eastward. Looks like tey can shoot and run.

[3] 110- Move a spear out from Aarhus to guard road from bombs. Also bait.

IT – 2 MDI’s land on mountain N of Ulaan which is now renamed Ugone due to the odds.

[4] 130-We’re 34.6 attacking and 29 defending. Sword army moves to protect fur city. I’m attacking. Valor is my middle name. Hold on…. We win the crucial first round losing 2 hp. Now I can move the other sword in to be sure we don’t lose the town, erring on the side of caution. Galley moves out 2 tiles to make it to Reykjavik next turn. Spear in fur city moves to help Ugone.

IT – MDI wins. It’s 2 hp to 2 hp. I saw our sword crap his pants looking to the future. Dromon fire. KW – Settler>Walls requiring a MM to do 6-4. Byz start Copernicus. I don’t even have a prebuild going yet.

[5] 150 - Spear makes it to Ugone and asks swordsman what the funny smell is. Swordsman, grabbing his drawers, sheepishly squeals below his breath, “What smell?” Spear grimaces sniffing the air and looking at the obvious new born package in the settled on the swords backside says, “Step aside, soldier and fortify yourself, will ya’ ”
Settler heads to 1st ring Karakorum, 6 away.

IT – MDI comes off the mountain onto a mine. Dromons do a lot of eastward shuffle but not one shot fired. Karakorum-Rax>Sword. I really want archer but invention is quite a bit away. Ta-tu-Rax> Sword. Alky-Cat>Worker

[6] 170 – Sword, feeling deflated after a restroom break, smirks back at the spear and gets an elite promotion killing the MDI with the Army watching. Spear is ordered to go back to minding his furs. An AC makes an appearance. Everyone in the kingdom wonder what strange animal is this? Oslo gets a ,oops, 19 shield sacrifice to the whale foundation. Tile swapping everywhere with grassland irrigation completed back to mines in the core. We have food now. DUCTS is what we need. Construction goes to 60%.

IT – Dromons are back at it. Construct>Curency in 7. KW-Walls>Colloseum Prebuild for market. Oslo-Temple>Harbor.

[7] 190AD – Galley fortifies in Aarhus. Settler still heading S. Valhalla goes to duct in 6. I thought about settler but thought I’d let the workers catch up. Maybe Byz will settle a city for us. :lol: She’ll have rifles by then.

IT – Dromons again. Birka-Another not so useful cat> Harbor.

[8] 210 – Workers heading S to help the FP core. AC heads into SE jungle looking to scout around.

IT – Dromons. Copenhagen-Settler> Prebuild. Reykjavik-Harbor>Duct. It may need a temple first. Next leader can see.

[9] 230 – Workers doing their thing.

IT – Theo lands 2 MDI N of Aarhus. Aarhus builds a worker> Rax. Stavenger-Wkr>Wkr.

[10] Short rush 16 shields for a temple in Alky. Moves spears into Aaurhus and have army kill one MDI. Still one left. There are 2 settlers ready to plant. I know the one is nly 2 tiles from Alky but I was thinking the cow can help alky out. You can certainly move him.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Handy03-250ad.jpg

Looking at the picture, I assume Kitten (and copenhagen) wants to be an Aquaduct rather than a Colosseum?

The route to the other continent appeared to be East of the southeast point where Byz put their cities. This makes sense - they had cities there befoer the lighthouse, so I am betting we can get across. I was thinking of having the Galley city hop around and then try it. If they Byz ships have troops or are guarding ships with troops, they don't attack I don't think. If we can do a hit point damage to each of the attacking boats so they go back and heal, that would help.

We also have to figure out how to get leaders/armies with noone to fight :lol:

Do we want to leave some crappy corrupt land somewhere for the AI to send settlers to? We can get some slaves & perhaps leaders that way.

Roster:
Handy <-up
T_McC
Yom <- skip till laptop works
Greebley
Barbslinger <- just played

Well - at least harbors are cheap for us so we can build veteran galleys. Perhaps they'll avoid attacking a stack of boats. When moving the army by seas, we can move 1 less sea tile and fortify on the last move to help defense. Galleys seem to do pretty well on defense.

Looking at the picture, I assume Kitten (and copenhagen) wants to be an Aquaduct rather than a Colosseum?
I was thinking markets, but we need both.

Pre Turn 250 BC
What crappy jungle lands.
Karakorum is building Archers for a Zerk upgrade I suppose. I hope the Glib is in a coastal city. May have to peel workers or settler from here soon.
Mm Ta-Tu for 3 shields. Look boss, it’s de plane, it’s de plane.
Eventually we can irrigate these corrupt cities to farm scientists.
Army has 1 move left, so I kill MI @ Aarthus.
Dromons are 2 on offense & defense – ugh. That is really bad luck – to be fighting the Byzantines with no Glib.

IBT
Karakorum – archer – archer
Byzantines begin Knights Templar
Found Odense

Turn 1 260
Not much

Kazan – worker - worker

Turn 2 270
workers

IBT
Valhalla – aqueduct - harbor

Turn 3 280
Drop F1 top get currency in 1 & make some cash

IBT
Currency – Poly – due in 6 @ zero GPT
Change coliseum builds, and the FP & Valhalla to markets.
We need libraries too.

Turn 4 290
Found Haried ->walls then it needs a harbor
Adjust for Poly in 5 losing 4 GPT (fastest we can get it)

IBT
Dromons are very interested in Kazan for some reason. Bomb it every turn.

Turn 5 300
May want to improve inland tiles first where possible. Dromons can pillage the tiles next to the sea.
Aarus needs walls after barracks.
Slow Karakorum growth to get the market faster. Speed it back up after Market finishes.
Valhalla’s market finishes before the city grows.

IBT
Nothing

Turn 6 310
The Acav in the jungle is moving around looking for landing parties.

IBT
Ta Tu sword - sword

Turn 7,8 320 & 330
Roads and mines

IBT
Bark – harbor – library (for whale)

Turn 9 340
Slider gets Poly in 1 +29 this turn. Net we made some cash & got poly in 5, the fastest we could do.

IBT
Poly – monarchy (due in 9 @ -11) will get better when Markets come in.
Fur city – worker – can chop temple here to get fish.
Stavanger – worker – worker

Turn 10 350
Did not see any Dromons the last 4 turns. I’m guessing the Byzantines are @ war & called the Dromons home.

Notes:
Does Stockholm really need a temple? Maybe Library, aqueduct, market.
Karakorum is set to grow in 6, market is due in 5.
Alky is @ zero growth to get temple in 15. Needs MM after temple comes in.
Did not see a single AI landing during my 10 turns, and the Dromons left about 4 turns ago.
I selected markets over aqueduct in KW & Copenhagen to boost cash. Switch if you like.
We do not have any Libraries. :(
Lone slave building a road to nowhere in the jungle mostly to keep the area lit. The Acav in the Jungle has wandered looking for AI landing parties.

Roster:
Handy
T_McC <- up
Yom <- Tell us when your laptop works, on auto skip till we hear from you.
Greebley
Barbslinger

EDIT The zoomed JPEG as an attachment looks crappy. Upload server not responding. I'll try to load the Jpeg later.

Handy,
FYI if you post a picture as a single attachement, it will display in thread. My advise it to post the picture seperately with any comments on the picture in the second post. It probably has to be 800x600 or less as well.

[Edit: Oh and TMcC, don't worry about giving me the bulk of the Anarchy turns. I think we should go to Monarchy right away. It is the only way to grow our towns quickly to catch up. Even if it slows things in the short term, we need it badly due to the fact all our core cities needed aquaducts and got stuck at size 6.

In fact I would start switching grasslands from mines to irrigation to speed growth. We can switch back after we grow.

I'm moving to a new job, and will be off-line until at least Thursday the 27th. Swap or skip as appropriate.


Roster:
Handy
T_McC <- off line until Thursday the 27th.
Yom <- Tell us when your laptop works, on auto skip till we hear from you.
Greebley <- UP
Barbslinger

We are down to 3. Greebley, you are up. We can each play 1 round this week and stop after me to allow T to pick the game up on the 27th if he is back by then.

Thanks for the tip on the screenshot Greebley.

Ok, I got it. I guess I will go play it then.

Preturn: Things are pretty good, but I change a few things. I go for a galley (what happened to the last one - I missed that part)? Switch a town with little food to a harbor. Nothing major. Try to reduce the time to monarchy. 100% is still 9 turns, so I raise it a bit more to get it in eight (either our tax collector goes to 11 or I hire a scientist in fur city - your guess).

360 AD: Wow our boat moves and we can see an Arabian border already. I am amazed we haven't met them. Do we want to meet them? I am not sure. We could use more leader fodder (just not too much).,

IBT:
Valhalla: Market->Library

370 AD: Actually we can see both civs. That means I can cross without meeting Arabia right away (it might be worth waiting for Monarchy to meet ppl.

IBT: Several units are landed including a knight. Heraclea (byzantine) builds Sun Tzu

380 AD: We cross over to the Byzantine side.

IBT: Quiet.

390 AD: Think again about meeting Arabia (for faster Monarchy), but decide my impulse to wait until after the Anarchy is better.

IBT: See the Byzantine Dromons returning with the boat.
Kitten: Market->Aquaduct (I actually like to switch the order. i.e. Aquaduct first myself).

400 AD: Not much.

IBT:

410 AD: Need to raise Lux for our FP city until it finishes the market.

IBT: Byzantine complete Copernicus and Leo. A knight is dropped off

420 AD: Destroy the knight. I use the army due to its high defense. Good thing too as we lose 5 hp. We get monarchy next turn. I will switch in the IBT.

IBT: I revolt and adjust Lux. Going for HBR which will complete in 6 turns during anarchy :lol:
Knight Templar is complete.

430 AD: Major lightning storm going on. I save my game. 6 more turns of Anarchy. Byzantines start Shakespeare. We had better grab the GLib or we are going to be toast.

440-450 AD: Anarchy. No attacks

Played last night but the lightning storm meant I didn't post

We are behind. The AI is building shakespeares

Roster:
Handy
T_McC <- off line until Thursday the 27th.
Yom <- Tell us when your laptop works, on auto skip till we hear from you.
Greebley
Barbslinger <-UP

Let's hope we get to Bezerks while they can make a difference.

If we can pillage the other continent, we may yet pull this out.

I think we have a very good chance of winning still if we do things right. One real prize would be grabbing the Great library. That would guarantee the win I think.

One nice thing: pillaging will be even stronger on a Tiny map. You are pillaging a much greater percentage of the world :hammer:

If you had got the GL I would have written this game off as already won. Now seeing you control the whole island you are 100% secure against a military defeat. The AI can never launch a off continent war successfully.

Any which way the outcome is going to be interesting. Will be lurking with great interest.

best of luck. :goodjob:

Agreed, Betazed. I am still pretty hopeful that we can keep the resaearch up and/or take out the GLib. If we can get to artillery by the time the AI gets into the modern age, then I think we can win.

Sorry about the delay. I've been with friends in Los Angeles watching the LAker-Wolves game. Just got home. I'll try to play tonight. Sorry about the delay.

Sorry about the delay. I've been with friends in Los Angeles watching the LAker-Wolves game. Just got home. I'll try to play tonight. Sorry about the delay.

No Problem. Good Luck :thumbsup:

Again I want to apologize for the delay. A friend from San Jose came down with Laker tix Tuesday and it was a 2 day extravaganza. I'm back on track and will be completing all my SG's tonight and Sat morniing. If anyone wants to swap that would be a nice option too. I'm up in about 5 different SG's.

No problem - it's a holiday weekend.

I'm heading to the lake Fri. & Sat., so I can play Saturday night at the earliest.

If T_McC is back online he can step in.

Oh yeah, I'm back.

So am I up?

Just a question: I must have missed something, but if you were hot for GLib, and had just gotten leader "Hubba", why didn't you change kitten to ToZ, and rush GLib in another city with the leader? Maybe C3C has some rules about not using leaders that way?

Exactly.

You can only rush Buildings and Small wonders with great leaders.

You need a scientific great leader (gotten by being first to tech and getting lucky) to rush great wonders.

Armies are a lot stronger to make up for it.

OK, I Got It!. Will play tomorrow morning, once I figure out what's going on.

HNDY03 - Do I Know You? :confused:

450 AD (0)
So, it's 450 AD and we don't know how to ride Horses yet. The Byz have a shot at going industrial on my turns, so we are very likely to have 'zerks vs. Rifles when we get to attack. If Monarchy sufficiently screws our economy, maybe it will be Infantry. We are also in Anarchy for 4 more turns. I seem to recall having a game forceably passed to me in Anarchy before ...

Well, this should be quick. The hilarious thing is that we will discover HBR entirely in Anarchy.

I actually intend to build no military except for Galleys. I think our plan should be to build 12 Galleys, 12 'zerks, and 4 Pikes. We have 4 empty Galleys for cover, and we set sail for Constantinople, home of the Great Library amongst other goodies. The Byz are Seafaring, so their capital should be coastal. We hold for one turn, then burn the place to the ground. I figure 12 'zerks can handle the expected 6 Rifles we'll find.

<Return>

460 AD (1)
Well, we know the Byz have Saltpeter. They also have Horses, so we can expect to see Cavs fairly soon.

470 AD (2)
We meet the Arabs next turn. I could have met them this turn, but I overshot their Warrior and he disappeared.

480 AD (3)
We must have made contact on the IT, we just discovered HBR a turn early. Set to Philosophy in 4. In Anarchy. :crazyeye:

119 gold is not enough to buy Philosophy, so just declare War on Abu. In other news, the Byz start Magellan's.

490 AD (4)
Byz drop off a couple of Knights, and we form a Monarchy. Philosophy in 3 at +8 gpt. Will see how far we can drop the sliders later.

Army and an AC dismiss the landings.

Make a few adjustments, particularly canceling some Spear builds in favor of infra. Philosophy now in 3 at +16 gpt. We need another couple of cities for unit support.

500 AD (5)
Karakorum completes Market, goes to Library.

Hey, the Arabs have a city on our continent! Not for long.

510 AD (6)
Va