RBC14F. The Bloodthirsty Maya (Deity).

Welcome to RBC-14F. This thread will tell the story of the Mayan team of the Realms Beyond Civilization Conquests SG series playing the Age of Discovery Conquest scenario. We, the Maya, have lived in our home world for thousands of years, built cities in the middle of the jungle, battled with other tribes, watched the stars and the moon, bowed to the sun and carried on with our own mysterious life. Some tell that we even met some aliens who taught us something about mathematics and astronomy. Alas, the knowledge is lost generations ago. We know only few advances mostly barbaric: Craftsmanship (Spearmen and iron resource), Masonry (Palace and Outpost), Pottery (Granary), Warrior Code (Archers and horse resource), Ceremonial Burial (Temple cost modified to 40 shields), Enslavement (JT which is our UU 2.2.1, 30 shields), Ritual Sacrifice (Sacrificial Altar with cost 40 shields and 10 cpt!). We are currently in Despotism and the only available option for government in the near future is Blood Cult which has tile penalty similar to Despotism, somewhat lower corruption and huge unit support (8 for each settlement regardless of size). It also requires a corresponding tech to research.

Here is the starting position:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RBC14F-start.JPG

We have only one city which is, fortunately, our capital Chichen Itza. At start, we get 4 regular JT, worker, and settler. We are agricultural (which is useless atm because CI is not on the river) and industrious. CI has Palace (1 cpt), Barracks, Granary, Temple (2cpt), Marketplace, Courthouse (?? We better disband it ASAP), Ball Court (to play the ball game; however, we don’t know how to play that, apparently have to rediscover some alien knowledge; 8cpt), and Altar (10 cpt). We also start with 50cp and all improvements bring us 21 cpt. Considering that single city cultural victory requires 4k cp, we will win in about 180 turns. Since the game lasts only 150 turns and it is Deity after all, just sitting and waiting would not help, we need to get some more culture. The easiest way would be to sacrifice some slaves which we get when our JT are victorious against another unit with probability of about 33%. Please also note that for this scenario there are only two victory conditions: VP and Cultural victories. VP is out of the question for the moment (situation might change during the game) and we better beeline for cultural victory.

The game would not be that difficult if not for these white people. We know they exist (pieces of lost knowledge) but have not seen them yet. They arrive in big boats and are very scary. Our ancestors also warned that they have two powerful units which are more beasts than man: some species called knight and another species called MDI (knowledge of this abbreviation is lost). These units can attack our cities and our units directly from their ships without disembarking on the shores first. These beasts are deadly and can slaughter our defenders in no time. Alas, but the knowledge of mathematics eluded our current Great Instigator and therefore we cannot build catapults which is a big disadvantage.

Considering the overall situation, it would be desirable to start some discussion between our instigators, pagans, cultists, and sacrificial butchers on the following topics:

1) Do we kill our sacrificial slaves first and then excise their hearts or we first excise their hearts and then they die on their own?

2) Do we try to peacefully co-exist with our Aztec neighbors or try to eliminate them early?

3) Do we research or leave it to the white people?

4) What to build in CI?

5) How to play that ball game? It is just puzzling our fellow Mayans.

6) Do we plan to switch to Blood Cult?

7) How to survive without catapults?

8) Do we focus on JT or build some archers to upgrade to Q-bowmen (3.1.1) which also have the enslave ability? Then, we would need to research 2 techs: Blood Cult and Body Ornamentation.

9) Where is the gold of our ancestors? Who has hidden in and where? We have only a handful of coins left in the treasury.

10) Should we befriend and welcome the white people? Or meet them with our spears, javelins, stones, and rubber balls (which we don’t know how to make yet)?

11) Where to build our next city?

12) What is the order of players in the roster?

13) Smoke-Jaguar is also puzzling. Jaguars don’t smoke because they cannot hold the pipe in their paws. Can someone explain this?

14) Early Golden Age or late GA?

15) Apparently, we might want to farm some barbarians for extra slaves but on Deity it may be tough. AIs would slaughter them all early. Any ideas?

16) Connect luxuries first or improve the terrain? When to start clearing the jungle?

17) And the last one. I surely have missed something important. Just cannot remember what exactly.

If I can suggest the order of players in the roster:

1. Aggie.
2. Kylearan
3. akots
4. Rubberjello

Do we play with 1.15 or upgrade to 1.22? For me both are OK.

Checking in. I have to read through the thread, but suggest to be 3rd or 4th up :) Both patches are fine with me. I would vote for 1.15 if we all can play with that patch (see Charis' remarks in the discussion thread).

... suggest to be 3rd or 4th up ...

Yes, starting is a tough job in this game. First 10 turns are crucial IMHO. If we don't do it right, some bad thing can happen. That is the reason I put myself 3rd... :)

I don't mind starting it, but only after a good discussion :)

Smokin' Jello checking in!
Any patch version is OK with me.
I've actually never played this Conquest yet with a native Civ, so I don't have any experience to contribute. All I know is that the Aztecs are darn close to us. (Too close!), and that some of the Native Wonders are really good, but that the tech research rate for them is pretty high. The total lack of roads will need to be addressed, (and is a beef of mine with this scenario...c'mon! These Civs (except the Iroquios) had an extensive road network!)

OK, 3 pagans out of 4 reported for duty and Kylearan lost somewhere in the jungle. May the stars help him to find the road to the temple.

I'll try to be short and would just post answers to the questions asked without comments.

1) Apparently, does not matter.
2) IMO, better to leave Aztec alone atm.
3) Research may be difficult. Actually, if going for cultural victory, we may be fine with only American techs. Except catapults...
4) Settler? Worker?
5) All I know is that the ball was very heavy and there were many injuries during the game.
6) Very unlikely in the near future.
7) ????
8) My vote goes for JT. No archers.
9) Aztec have stolen it!
10) Keeping peace with Europeans is essential for our survival.
11) On spice? On jungle at distance 3-SE from CI? On plains distance 4.5-S?
12) See above.
13) Well, it is no more puzzling than smoking Rubberjello.
14) We better wait and build a few cities before going to GA.
15) Need to scout the area and try to surround a camp so that AI cannot get to it.
16) Improve terrain certainly. And start chopping the jungle ASAP.

2) I think that no one priority is getting a few cities and an army of units that can enslave.
3) Min science on Blood Cult for the moment? Max science is -9 gpt and only shaves off 11 turns. Min science is 80%. Also not adding up... Maybe we shouldn't reasearch at all for the moment?
4) I would go for a settler
5) We have a ball court that we adore. But we don't know the tech? It happened before that meso-american civs ran into ancient cities... :)
6) Indeed this is very unlickely.

8) JT for me too.

10) I agree: Keeping peace with Europeans is essential for our survival.
11) On spice sounds OK, but I dson't know what else is close by...

12) I'm a but busy atm, but I can see what I can do...

14) I agree: We better wait and build a few cities before going to GA.
15) I agree: Need to scout the area and try to surround a camp so that AI cannot get to it.
16) I agree: Improve terrain certainly. And start chopping the jungle ASAP.

Checking in! Sorry for not checking in earlier, but it's a busy weekend for me. I'll have yet to take a deeper look at the scenario rules, so I won't be able to contribute something meaningful to the discussion until tomorrow.

It would be nice if we could play this under patch 1.15.

-Kylearan

Aggie, it might be a good idea if you go ahead and start. We can apparently move all our JT exploring and hunting since this Ball Court makes all our citizens in CI content and we don't need MP ATM. No rush, please take your time, since one of our greatests instigators (Kylearan) is lost in the jungle looking for gems or rubber and if he does not show up soon, we'll have to dispatch a smoking exotic bird with a letter to help him find the way.

We'll play patch 1.15 then. Please note when you start the game that aggression level is set to "normal" which is the default.

Sacrificial butcher roster:
1. Aggie -> UP preparing the concoction of various exotic plants to make our javelins paralyze the enemies so that they can be enslaved
2. Kylearan -> on the way to the temple (cross-posted, already there)
3. akots ->
4. Rubberjello ->

OK, we're all set and ready to shed some blood...

If you look one post up you see that Kylearan showed up akots :)

EDIT: I think we should move our settler south and check out what lands are there. Settling to the west doesn't look great.

Yes. Settler south first. Then concentrate on more settlers/workers for the foreseeable future. If we head North past the Aztecs, we would have a greater chance of hitting some Barbs (for slaves), but that would be a long walk home. Be aware that Desert in this scenario is completely impassible! I vote the main thrust of our JTs to go into South America.
City placement: We are much safer from amphibious assaults if we settle West coast places in Central America rather then East Coast. I know this isn't as much of an issue with the AI, but I just started a PBEM of this scenario, and that aspect of their (European) units in the hands of a human opponent scares the jello out of me! :lol:

Turn 0 (1490 AD) I send our JT's out exploring and our settler moves south. Science at 0%. We need the money imho. Our city starts with a settler.

Turn 1 (1491 AD) One JT revels gold, silver and BG tiles. Our settler goes there.

Turn 2 (1492 AD) :sleep:

Turn 3 (1493 AD) Copan founded on plains. Starts with JT.

Turn 4-9 (1494-1499 AD) We meet the Aztecs, not more more to report.

Turn 10 (1500 AD) We see our first barbs camp!

I couldn't make a lot more of the turnlog. Not a lot to do atm... This will change I'm sure.

Cool, we have now 2 cities and are at peace with all except barbarians.
Roster of rubberball players for today's match with Aztec:
1. Aggie -> concoction ready, just played
2. Kylearan -> UP, lead our people to new cities in the jungle!
3. akots -> meditating, smoking, and asking advice from the gods
4. Rubberjello ->

It all looks very reasonable ATM. IMHO, we can capture some slaves in South America and use them in the core to build roads and chop the jungle.

Got it.

I have no idea yet where we plan to take this game, though. From Akots' initial post I gather that we don't play under any variant rule as originally proposed in the initial thread like "no cultural buildings allowed", right? Personally, I'd like to go for a single city cultural victory - lots of sacrificing of other American natives before any other civ will win via VPs. That doesn't sound too hard, though, but then I have never played this scenario and have no idea what the European AIs will do.

-Kylearan

I would go for a single city win without a variant rule. I also can't tell if this is very difficult or not. I trust Charis on this that the Maya are the most difficult American tribe to win it with. Deity will make it harder to research and to win battles vs the barbarians. I guess that that is the difficulty of this level. Besides the fact that the AI will be able to research and expand much faster of course.

It looks to me that we should build a couple of cities purely for military purposes. Our capital can be used settlers initially and then for cultural buildings.

I regard these RBC SG's as an ideal way to check out the Conquests. It's really 'let's see what happens' for me.

IMHO, the game we are playing as Maya is extremely difficult. Lets try to win somehow just without exploits. Variant or no variant, chances to snatch some wonder is slim (but is worht a shot) and other culutral buildings are of little help (2-3 cpt). Apparently, single city clutural victory is more reasonbale. We are in poor position to build very many cities in this game yet. However, things may change. We never know...

We have neglected research the first 10 turns, which I think was a mistake (not sure, though... ;) ). I don't think we should purely rely on the AIs to do research for us, because I have no idea how cheap or expensive techs will be to buy. So I like to do our own research - question is, what? We don't need Horseback Riding, as it's only useful for the Iroquois for their UU. If we aim for a single city cultural victory, we don't need Ball Games either, because Chichen Itza has a ball court already.
That leaves the question wether to go the Blood Cult - Body Ornamentation route, or to research the required techs for this age. The two optional techs have great wonders who give huge amounts of culture associated with them, while the required techs only have the usual low-culture buildings: colisseum and library, then cathedral and university in the next age.
Since the two optional techs provide three great wonders to build, I decide to go for blood cult, although this takes 78 turns on break-even and 44 on max science to research at the moment. But even on Deity, we might have a chance for one of these wonders, although we have no real prebuild.

I change Copan from JT to temple: It can be whipped in three turn and will bring in an additional BG tile, which is worth it IMHO, because it has no good tile to work once it's size two, and our workers will need a long time to chop down all the jungle.

(I) The barb camp loses one of its archers to someone we cannot see.

(1) 1501AD: Chichen Itza settler -> spear. Cool, our worker is able to build a road in one turn only!

(I) The barb camp loses another archer.

(2) 1502AD: We dispose the barb camp, netting us 25g (but no slave). Behind it, we meet the Incas.

(I) The Aztecs throw us out of their country, then found Tlatelolco south of their capital. bringing our scouting JT into their territory immediately again.

(3) 1503AD: Copan whips the temple.

(I) The Aztecs ask us politely to remove our troops. :crazyeye:

(4) 1504AD: Copan temple -> barracks. One of our JTs fortifies on the isthmus to deny the Incan scouts the way into our territory.

(I) The Portuguese complete the Sistine Chapel.

(5) 1505AD: MM Chichen to not waste any shields on the spear.

(6) 1506AD: Thanks to the founding of Tlatelolco earlier, our scout will make it through Aztec land to scout. :)

(I) ...the scout gets booted, but to a very strange location. Because desert is impassable, he is thrown onto a two-plains "island" behind the desert! :saiyan: He is trapped now, unable to move anywhere. This is stupid! :wallbash:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/rbc14f-trapped_jt.jpg

(7) 1507AD: Chichen spear -> worker. I fortify our trapped JT for the time being to make our military advisor happy, but we should disband him once we exceed our unit limit. Stupid, stupid, stupid... :vomit:

(I) The French complete Leo's.

(8) 1508AD: :sleep:

(I) Spain completes Copernicus.

(9) 1509AD: Our settler is still on the move into South America so that later settlers can backfill the lands he passes by. MM Chichen to finish worker next turn.

(10) 1510AD: Chichen worker -> settler.



There's a nice fresh-water location with gems and iron our settler can settle, either on the hill on the coast, or if we fear amphibious attacks, on the inland hill one tile east of his current position. Thanks to the reduced corruption in this scenario, this should become a nice city. The spear trailing behind should close the isthmus again.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/rbc14f-1510ad.jpg

Speaking of corruption, we should indeed sell the courthouse in Chichen, I forgot to do so, sorry. Our research should soon speed up once the jungle on the luxuries is cleared and the tiles are worked by Chichen.

Roster:
Aggie
Kylearan
akots <-- UP NOW
Rubberjello <-- on deck


-Kylearan

I got it and will play soon. If a variant can be suggested: we must save our JT from his cumbersome position. Just build a boat and pick him up. :)

IMHO, it would be nice to have as many cities as possible on that small chunk of land which we got. Well, it is our home country, after all. Then, build, rush, but somehow get a decent force of JT and may be Q-bowmen later on. Declare war on Aztec or Inca and get as many slaves on the defensive as possible. Roughly, we might need an SOD of about 20 units.

I tried to load the save, it loaded but is somewhat corrupt. Something wrong with civilopedia and dates and F4 screen. May be it is a problem of my "rapid" switch to 1.15 (only root dir and text folder) and I have to overwrite the directory with Conquests scenarios as well. Will play tomorrow then, need to find a zip disk.

A few comments. I'm not questioning anything just asking questions. :)

However. We are researching something due in 60 turns. IMHO, Europeans are scheduled to arrive every moment and we need some cash to trade with them some techs. Some of these techs may be useful. Actually, tech prices in this scenario in European tree are relatively acceptable even on Deity. First trading round is critical and we might want to try to get from it as much as we can. It would be nice to have trebuchets eventually. Second, we are running with the settler very far away to block Inca apparently from spreading over Panama canal. But what about Aztec? Our capital is undefended. What if they decide to go after it with a couple of JW? IMHO, at least one or better two JT should have stayed at home blocking the Aztec. Third, what if some European settler decides to settle around the infamous Panama city or Nicaragua? How to proceed in this case? Fourth, our JT are exploring very far to the south. Are they going to find something there? It is very unlikely that there are live barbarians left. Inca had a fair number of their UU and probably slaughtered them all.

I would just remind that the game is very difficult and our chances to win are not so high. Probably less than of the Sid team. So, if we discuss what is next, it might improve our chances of success. If we have no idea about something it is a good idea to ask than rush forward. We better discuss what to do because at present, the situation is very unfavorable and it would be surprizing if we can survive for the next 10 or 20 turns if Monte decides he wants to party in CI and sacrifice some bloody Mayan pagans and instigators. In my limited experience with this scenario, all American civilizations are very aggressive even at "normal" level, so it is quite possible that some JW are already dispatched to take on our ball court and temple.

Survival plan:

1) Whip at least 2 JT ASAP in any case.
2) Stop research completely, get ready for trade session. Trade whatever techs are possible.
3) Return with scouts back to protect our cities.
4) Make a small gpt (1gpt) gift to Monte.
5) If Monte declares, try to survive by joining workers and whipping some more defenders.
6) If Monte does not declare, try to chop the forest on spices and build next city there. Rush temple and barracks and walls if the tech is available. (In this scenario, forest has to be chopped before settling on it as well as jungle has to be cleared IIRC.)

Please-please all lets discuss this.

1) Whipping JT: I would do that when the Aztecs decide to attack/enter our lands with more than one unit.
2) I indeed think that it is better to buy techs than to research, because it will take us to long otherwise
3) I would do that indeed, but I think it is also very wise to block Panama. Placing ourselves on the hill and the BG tile SE of the spear makes it impossible for the others to settle (no settling on jungle and forest).
4) I don't think that will stop Monte to attack us. I haven't seen test about this though. We could also renegotiate peace, but that could be more expensive.
5) Appears that we have to in that case.
6) Good idea for a next spot.

All good points, so let's discuss. :)

Regarding the trapped JT: I don't think we would need a boat for anything else in this scenario, so just building one to rescue a regular JT may be a bit wasteful.

Research: As I've written in my report, I'm not sure what's the best way to go here. The needed 60 turns will drop eventually once we have some cities in place. You wrote elsewhere that keeping up in tech with the European civs is key to our survival - why? If we go for a single city cultural victory, these techs won't give us much. The Blood Cult and Body Ornamentation techs, on the other hand, give wonders with monster culture. Because there are three different wonders, we have a good shot at getting one of them in our capital, so I thought going for the tech would be our best option. All the regular techs don't have immediate advantages, so they can wait IMHO - all we need are JTs and later the 3.1.1 bowmen, and wars with our neighbours, and we're set. No?

Undefended capital: Yep, that may be a problem. I got the game with all our JTs exploring already, so I continued to do so - I value map info very high. But I agree that we should have some units at home for defense soon, so build some spears now if you wish, or run the farmer's gambit a little longer until either the next settler or the barracks in Copan is finished.

The settler running around far away: I think the good fertile lands he's heading to justifiy the delay in founding our next cities, and I like the strategy to settle towards the enemy and then backfill. YMMV, though.

our chances to win are not so high. Probably less than of the Sid team

That's my first try on this scenario, so excuse me for probably being naive here, but why is this supposed to be so difficult? I agree that we will be in major trouble if a European civ attacks us, with their amphibious units and all, but our American neighbours? The problem we face is to make our cities productive with all the jungle to clear, but after that it looks like the standard war-and-sacrifice plan, not unlike the Mesoamerica Conquest, no? I'm probably missing something here, though. :)

Your plan to found a city on the spices sounds okay, but could have some consequences: It would be a city very near to an Aztec city, hence provoking them, and would waste precious worker turns to prepare the settling which we may need to make our capital productive and ready to try to build a wonder. Maybe we should blockade that spot with units instead?

-Kylearan

Well, I agree that Monty usually isn't the nicest of neighbors. :rolleyes: So some home protection would be adviseable soon (but not whipping yet). I don't recommend giving up exploring, as our map will be worth some value from the visiting Europeans soon. I also think there is no way in heck we will discover the native techs before our neighbors do, so maybe if we barter for enough European techs we can trade for them eventually???

Exploring the map is indeed important. We have seen that in the Dutch game RBC14B. Still I would bring one JT back to occupy Panama.

... That's my first try on this scenario, so excuse me for probably being naive here, but why is this supposed to be so difficult? I agree that we will be in major trouble if a European civ attacks us, with their amphibious units and all, but our American neighbours? ...

The main problem as I see it now is that we don't have good productive cities and don't have catapults. So, if we can somehow convince the AIs that CI is an ugly place to own for them, for let's say, next 50 turns, until we clear the jungle and get to trebuchets, we would be doing more or less OK. However, this may be not so easy to do.

I fixed the 1.15 switch and am playing today.

Preturn check. Decrease research to zero and sell Courthouse in CI. CI switched to JT. Copan goes to JT as well. Trade 15g from Monte for 1gpt. He becomes cautious. Change preferences. Hit Enter.

[1] 1511AD. One JT heads home, another continues to explore around Machu Picchu. We have contacts with France and England. Did not see their units. Apparently Aztec traded a contact with us to them. Lets see what we can get from these big guys. Aztec have empty treasury and Alphabet. Inca have 169g. France is annoyed, has 252g and Alphabet as well as other contacts. Can trade Alphabet for our WM+110g keeping the contact with Inca untouched. Price for Alphabet is the same. We can trade it from England or wait to another turn for other contacts which may or may not substantially influence the tech prices. It would be nice to get contact with Iro. This can indeed decrease the tech prices and open some brokering possibilities.

[2] 1512AD. Palenque founded on the hill. Set to JT ATM but other options can include temple and rax. Corruption there is less than 33% (!). Surprisingly, we have no new contacts. Tech prices also did not change. The value of our current WM is about 30g considering the Deity penalty. Still waiting for more contacts before trading. Our WM may depreciate a little but we still have contact with Inca which is more important.

[3] 1513AD. We got contact with Portugal. Price for Alphabet drops down to WM+100g. Monopoly on contact with Inca is about 90g worth ATM. IBT. Some caravels sail near our shores. They have spotted us but sailed away. Well, got the contact with Dutch somehow. Monte moves a JW to scout our land. Copan builds JT and will build another.

[4] 1514AD. Prices unchanged but our contact with Inca costs more now (around 100g). Waiting longer is risky because some ships head towards Brasil and Inca scout can be near the shore. And then, goodbye our monopoly. So, I cave in and trade WM+90g to England for Alphabet. Then trade Alphabet to Inca for 184g. Monte has Currency but lacks Writing. Lets check if we can get Writing. Currency from Monte we can buy for 222g + 1 gpt. We trade our WM to Dutch for contact with Iro+9g. Hiawatha is up Writing and Currency. Trade Writing from Henry for WM+Contact with Inca+85g. Trade Currency+2g from Monte for Contact with Inca and Writing. Trade contact with Spain from France for Contact with Inca+WM+40g to trade the contact and our WM to Spain on this turn. Spain has no cash but can trade either Storytelling or CoL for all our cash (108) and gpt (7) and WM and Contact with Inca. Instead, I establish Embassy with Aztec for 31g. Teno has 4 citizens making 5spt and 3 spears as garrison. Building archer atm. We can research Blood Cult in 33 turns if going 100% science! Sell contact with Inca to England for 20g. Build Embassy in Cusco for 36g. It is size 1 city making 2spt, having 2 spears and building the third. Pathetic, IMO. Now I’m going to do something strange. Trade WM from Spain for WM+Contact with Inca+55g. Sell WM to Portugal for 8g, France for 7g, England for 17g, Then trade WM from Dutch for WM+Contact with Inca+35g+1gpt. Sell WM to England and trade WM from Portugal. Some more trading and finally sell WM to Spain for 56g (all that they have). Finally buy WM from France and sell WM again all over the place. Net result of the session: for 1gpt and 50g we got 3 techs, 2 Embassies, and whole world map leaving 2 AI completely broken. If there were some more cash at hand during the trade, it could have been possible to get something else. But it is good as it is.
IBT. Two regular JW come to visit our Instigator in CI.

[5] 1515AD. We greet them with our JT. All this is not looking very promising. CI switched to work the forest to build JT in 2 turns. Should have done this previous turn. Next turn can whip JT in Copan. JT from Palenque heads home. Good or bad, it looks like we are facing early Golden Age. Dutch build Fort Orange on Cuba. Map brokering yields only 5g. IBT. Two JW advance but do not cross the border yet. May be they are going to CI.

[6] 1516AD. Whip JT in Copan. One from CI would be ready next turn. Trade 15g for 1gpt from Monte again. Let him think twice. Map trade yields 12g this turn.
IBT. JW advance. Ships sail. Tension increases.

[7] 1517AD. Our brave but shaking JT block access of offending units to our mountains. Map trade yields standard 12g. IBT. Two JW move to our spices and they are now followed by archer and third JW. Some ships sail. It might be very scary if they settle Panama site.

[8] 1518AD. Playing hide and seek with JW. Cannot last long though. Leaving JT on a hill to block Panama settling site. Actually, Portugal already settled in Amazon delta. IBT. Warriors dance on the mountains. It is tense but more or less safe for now.

[9] 1519AD. Something weird happened. WM price from Portugal jumped to 110g. Apparently, they traded with Inca for their WM. Indeed, Inca got both Currency and Writing this turn so seems like this is the reason. Seems like Writing they got from Portugal and Currency from France. We somehow trade the maps but make no cash this turn.
IBT. We are at war with Monte now. Two JW attacked our JT on the mountain and both redlined and retreated. Another JW and archer advance to our spices.

[10] 1520AD. I will stop now and let the next player (Rubberjello) handle the situation with warfare, maps, contacts, builds, and all. IMHO, we are in a critical situation and must somehow survive. The main problem is to decide how. Archers are good and have strong chances to kill our JT (which we have 3 atm at the war scene). We then start Golden Age if we win which is a bad thing. Overall, looks very sad. Apparently, the immediate attack target is our JT/worker pair on the forest. It may be a good idea to reinforce them with another JT from the mountains.

Pics from battlefront:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RBC14F-1520-war.JPG

Roster:
1. Aggie -> getting ready
2. Kylearan ->
3. akots -> Just played, did whatever possible to avoid the war but attempts were futile
4. Rubberjello -> UP Will try to survive somehow

SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RBC14F-1520AD.zip)

As you predicted a long time ago akots... Let's see what Rubberjello can do.

Hrmpf, so Monte really attacked us. :mad: Sorry, then, for not building more than one spear during my turns, but I felt this was the right thing to do: Given the cramped situation we are in, I didn't want to delay settling longer than necessary by building units. I knew this was a gambit that most of the time works, but here it failed - my apologies.

Great trading, btw!

I see no way out of this without triggering our Golden Age, so I think that is a foregone conclusion. I don't think our surviveability is at stake so much as throwing any longer term goals and building phase out the window.... :(

Pre-turn. Monty is going to rue the day.... :mad: Trade maps around for a small amount of profit. Well...the best defense is a good offense. Reg JT vs Vet JW > wins and promotion. Vet JT vs Vet Archer > wins, gains slave.
:jump: GOLDEN AGE BEGINS :jump:

IT Two wounded JW retreat back to Aztec Territory. Another JW and Archer approach. Portuguese finish Magellon's Voyage.

1521 (1) Retreat victorious JT back off spices and onto Mountain.
Stay in the WM trading game despite netting -3 gold this turn.

1522 (2) Chicken-pizza (JT->JT) Fortifying on Mountains. Native civs haven't learned anything new, which means all European techs are too expensive for us. Make +2 profit on Map Trading. If we could sell to Incas and Iros, we would be making a tidy profit each round.

1523 (3) Copan (JT->Granary) Forest cut completes. Time to attack the approaching Aztecs. Reg JT vs Vet JW > wins and promotion. Vet JT vs Vet Archer > Wins and a new Worker is enslaved. The Iros have Mapmaking! Trade them our WM and 84 gold for Mapmaking. Incas are dead broke. Another round of map trading and get about half of our 84 gold back.

1524 (4) Aztec Archer attacks our vet JT and loses, with a promotion to Elite for us. Palenque (JT->Settler) Disband our marooned unit in Baja California because we are over the limit. Healing turn. The war is going so well that I switch Chicken-Pizza over to Settler. Make a good profit on maps. (+24)

1525 (5) Aztec archer trots out towards us to be enslaved (hopefully). Incas have learned Blood Cult! Hmmm...this may be a problem. They are insulted when we offer everything, including our first-born children. :( It must still be a monopoly. Vet JT vs Reg Archer > Wins and new worker. 5 JTs approach the Aztec city of Tlatelolco. Agony of indesicion here...let Settler complete in Chicken-Pizza, or try to scrounge around for a pre-build for a wonder (can buy Storytelling from the White guys (Library) for a large price). Decide to go for Settler. I apologize to the team now if this is the wrong move.

1526 (6) A bunch of Aztec movement. 2 JW go around our stack towards our Workers. Chicken Pizza (Settler->JT) Small profit in map trading this round. Hmmm...we can't build harbors until Astronomy? So much for making Chicken-Pizza more productive from the sea. Vet JT vs Reg JW > Wins. Vet JT vs Reg JW > wins. Elite JT vs. Reg Spear > Uhmmm...I don't know quite how to explain this...
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/rbc14fpic001.jpg

This is too freakin' lucky. We get a great leader - Blue-Quetzal-Macaw! And to add insult to injury, a worker enslaved also. Leader hotfoots it back to the Capital to get converted to an army. Hopefully we can use Heroic Epic for a prebuild (if that's allowed in this scenario?) Vet JT vs Reg Spear > Loses, promotes spear. Vet JT vs Vet (wounded) Spear > Wins. Aztec city of Tlatelolco is auto-razed.

1527 (7) English start Luther's Thesis. Incas start Temple of the Sun. Hmmm...can't form an army because we don't have enough cities? Spices hooked up this turn. (No effect---need a Spice Factory (like that's gonna happen!)

1528 (8) Wow! Our workers are fast little buggers in creating roads in the open. 1 turn? Vet JT vs Vet JW > Win (redline) Elite* JT vs reg Archer > win and worker. Finally buy Storytelling from France for WM and 266 gold. Buy Code of Laws from Iroquios for Storytelling + 50 gold +1 gpt. Incas are dead broke but still have the monopoly on Blood Cult. Chicken Pizza changed over to Library.

1529 (9) Inca start Temple of the Moon. Found Tikal on Hills SE of Copan. We can form an Army now. Blue-Quetzal-Macaw becomes our first (only?) General. Loaded with a JT for faster movement. Slave workers start clearing Jungle east of spices for future city site. General retreat from Aztec lands to heal. Usual profits off map trading.

1530 (10) We can talk to the Aztecs now, and they know Blood Cult! Time for some pointy-stick diplomacy during peace talks. :D (up to the next leader) Elite JT vs reg Archer > Wins plus worker. JT Army vs Vet Spear -> Wins taking 3 hits. The Aztec Capitol is in sight. Work is proceeding well our military roadnet. Settler from Palenque should be used to settle Panama spot.

The Save at 1530 (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RBC14F-1530AD.zip)

:hammer: Not bad! Not bad at all :hammer: Got it.

EDIT: So what to do now?

This army is a very powerful tool in the hands of the humans. I think we can safely continue warring. Maybe first vs the Aztecs but then vs the Inca. Should I stop after capturing/razing the Aztec capital or should I go for totla destruction? That should net us a lot of slaves. Apart from that and settling Panama, what are our future plans?

EDIT: When I take the capital of the Aztecs, should I capture or raze? Razing will give us extra salves, but a big city close by can't hurt either. I would go for capturing.

I suspected RJ to be a lucky charm but not that much... We got a leader with first elite win!!!! :hammer:

It is so good, unbelievable! Great turns and great victories indeed!

@Aggie: We cannot count on buidling the wonder, at least not seriously. IMHO, Blood Cult is expensive and no chance to get it from Monte. However, it might be a good idea not to attack their capital and just put our army fully loaded on the defensive somewhere on the way of their units. They would probably pump out 2 or 3 JW/archers every turn. So, kill them with army and we get a slave every turn. Razing or capturing Teno gives us little benefit. Only number of slaves is important. But it is very tempting to capture Teno. It might be a productive city. Really don't know what can be the focus.

IHT: Indeed, slaves are the focus. But Tenochtitlan is such an interesting city! Capturing it will probably eliminate the Aztec thread and I am sure that future slaves will still come from other cities.

Turn 1 (1531 AD) Our JT army kills an archer, but no slave.

IT: Palengue: settler->temple (to get iron and more gems in our borders).

Turn 2 (1532 AD) JT army kills two spear in Teno, but no slaves.

IT: Copan: granary->barracks.

Turn 3 (1533 AD) JT army kills two spears in Teno, netting us one slave. We then capture Teno, which again gives us two slaves. A JT kills an exposed archer near Teno, but gets redlined. Luckily a 2nd archer can cover him.

IT: Aztec archer attacks JT on a hill and we win, no slave.

Turn 4 (1534 AD) Resistance in Teno ends, but they remain unhappy. It has barracks and all our troops go to heal (JT army, two other JT's).
I can get blood cult and a city for peace, but the temple of the moon and the sun are already being built by the Inca and the Aztecs. I give us little chance on it. Therefore I remain at war. A slaves nets 40 culture, while a wonder only gives us 8 per turn.
Copan is switched to a settler, because we now can settle between our core and Teno.

IT: An Aztec spear comes our way.

Turn 5 (1535 AD) Yaxchilan founded on Panama. Our JT army loses 10 HP's vs a spear on a mountain, but we get our slave. Library whipped in our capital.

IT: Cichen Itza: library->JT. An Aztec JW comes to meet us.

Turn 6 (1536 AD) Elite JT lets JW retreat and vet JT kills it, netting us another slave. The slaves are all put to work on a road to Chichen Itza.

IT: A JW attacks our JT army!! And takes 7 HP's of it :eek: But we win. Copan: settler->barracks.

Turn 7 (1537 AD) Settler goes to and old Aztec site.

IT: Two JW's and an archer pay us a visit.

Turn 8 (1538 AD) Elite JT kills the archer. JT army kills a JW and retreats another. No slaves this turn.

IT: JW attacks our JT and retreats

Turn 9 (1539 AD) JT kills the redlined JW and we capture a slave. JT army feels save and moves out of Teno to kill another JW. Another slave!

Everyone has Construction now. Except for the Aztecs. I wait a bit before I buy it though.

IT: Two new archers approach us. The French establish and embassy.

Turn 10 (1540 AD) Bonampak founded. Starts barracks. JT army kills the two archers. No slaves.

I haven't traded a lot, as the GA will end soon and income will drop then. I don't think we missed a boat somewhere. We can get bloodcult from the Aztecs, but I rather keep on fishing for slaves. Use the slaves for improvement and only join them at the end, when we can get 4K culture. We have 16 slaves and need about 50 more. We could take the next Aztec city, but that would slow down their unit production and therefore also our slave capture ability...

PS: I had to reload somewhere and noticed that 'preserve random seed' is off!

... noticed that 'preserve random seed' is off!
Must be the case for all Conquests.

Great turns getting us more slaves!

Roster:
1. Aggie -> just played, captured many Aztecs and put them to work. They can die later.
2. Kylearan -> UP Preparing to capture more slaves
3. akots -> getting ready
4. Rubberjello ->

A few more units and we might be in position to declare war against Inca. Only concern may be to have more units in CI (at least 2 more) to protect the city against sneak attack from amphibious units.

I agree with a few units in CI. And also with going after the Inca now. We can park our SoD with army on a mountain and kill off all pasing units.

Don't we still have a chance for a Wonder if you use our army to put the hurt on whichever Incan cities are building wonders? The Aztecs are out of the running and the Iroquois don't stand a chance (I think). Our Slaves would feel so much better feeding the gods from atop an impressive pyramid, don't you think?

A JT army? Great news! We shouldn't have much problems getting more slaves now! :cool: What astounded me though is that a JW actually attacked our army; that means we have to be careful not to wound and expose it too much or we might lose it.

I think it was definately the right decision to capture Teno. Against the Inca (which probably are the largest American civ) and especially in case we get attacked by any European civ, we need these cities and a good economy to survive.

The fact that we now have lots of slaves should get our cities productive quite fast now. In hindsight, the war that was forced upon us might have been a blessing for us... :lol:

Got it.

Kylearan: the army was resting in the city. Otherwise it wouldn't have been attacked.

Rubberjello: I don't know if a wonder really adds up. It's only 8 cpt. A slave is 40 cp. I would set up a trap north of the Inca empire (on the mountains) and kill anyone trying to reach our empire. We should be able to get 1 or 2 slaves per turn.

... In hindsight, the war that was forced upon us might have been a blessing for us ...

Yes, indeed. It was just too scary and if not for our great RubberJeneral getting an army, we never know how it could have turned out. But that war was a great thing!

I second Aggie on Wonder. May be focus on slaves primarily?

I don't know if a wonder really adds up. It's only 8 cpt. A slave is 40 cp. I would set up a trap north of the Inca empire (on the mountains) and kill anyone trying to reach our empire. We should be able to get 1 or 2 slaves per turn.

IIRC, one of the wonders actually gives 10cpt (can't check atm) which would be equal to a free slave every four turns. Considering that you need three successful attacks on average to gain one slave, it would roughly equal to about one attack less per turn we have to make, which might come in handy especially once we have to face stronger units.
I haven't looked at the save yet, but I find the assumption that we will be able to get 1 or 2 slaves per turn very optimistic - that would mean we will be able to win 3-6 fights per turn.

I'll have a look if we have a chance at the wonder without endangering our slave trap. And I promise I won't try any gambit again and that I will play safe. :p

Unfortunately I won't be able to play before tomorrow because my brother gets married today (2nd out of five weddings this year for me... :eek:) - I hope that's okay.

-Kylearan

IIRC, the wonder is 300 and 400 shields which equals 10-13 JT. We can get up to 6 kills/2 slaves per turn with that number of units. Also, if we lose the race, there is nothing else to build and many shields can be wasted. And we can have another army on the Inca front. However, looks very tempting... :)

Heh, you guys are doing so well on the war front, I say forget the wonders and concentrate on army. The white people will be landing in your area soon, have a party ready for them!

Diplo round: All civs are up Construction, and the Incas are up Blood Cult as well. I would like to know Construction to open up the next age so we can look out for potential 2-fers, but I hold off buying the tech as I don't know how our economic situation after our GA will be (that will end soon).

We are still very thin on units: We only have 1 spear, 6 JTs and the army, and all JTs are regulars except for one elite. Our capital is only protected by one spearman and two cities are undefended, although they are backyard cities only. Still, I feel very uncomfortable declaring war on the Incas now who have a lot of cities, and decide to build more units first.

I hire two taxmen in Tenochtitlan to starve the last remaining Aztec citizen, and whip the temple in Palenque.

(1) 1541AD: Our GA has ended. We kill a JW but get no slave.
Economically, we now are at 349g+14gpt. I would like to avoid giving money to other American tribes, and construction from any European civ would cost us all our hard cash plus some gpt. Construction would enable a cultural building though, but at 2cpt for 120 shields, it's no immediate priority. At 4spt, building it in Chichen Itza would take forever, and military would be more useful at the moment, so I hold off buying construction again, waiting if we can buy Blood Cult instead.

(2) 1542AD: Copan whips a barracks. With all the unimproved lands, whipping is very useful - better gain 20 shields than working a coastal tile with no shields.

(3) 1543AD: :sleep:

(4) 1544AD: We have four JTs near Tenochtitlan now, and see two Aztec archers nearby. I trust our JTs to handle those and move our now healed army over to the Incas to prepare our war declaration.

(5) 1545AD: Inca have declared war on the Portuguese! Excellent, that should decimate some of their troops and may enable us to get paid for an alliance later.

(6) 1546AD: Finally, some action: Two regular archers are on open terrain near Tenochtitlan. The first is killed easily, but I lose a vet JT against the second. :mad: Another vet of ours then manages to enslave it.

(7) 1547AD: The Dutch start to build Luther's 95 Theses. Chichen Itza has two spears as a garrison now.

(8) 1548AD: The Dutch have declared war on the Inca.

(9) 1549AD: Palenque whips a barracks. Our workers there are finished now with building a mine and move out of range of any ATAR Chasqui scouts, and our army is positioned on a mountain, ready to attack anything that tries to pass. So I dial up Portugal to see if they would pay us for an alliance - and realize we have no embassy there. :blush: Establishing one would cost us 92g though, so I just declare war on the Inca the old-fashioned way.
Near Tenochtitlan, an Aztec JW is enslaved.

(10) 1550AD: I pay the Portuguese our TM and 40g at their request. A fresh wave of Aztec units has appeared near Tenochtitlan suddenly. One archer is enslaved, and another nets a great leader!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/rbc14f-leader2.jpg

Wow, that's incredibly lucky. I move him into Tenochtitlan and then realize we have one city too few for a second army. I leave the rest of his movement for the next leader. A third archer is killed.


The situation at Tenochtitlan is a bit heated at the moment; two JWs are roaming around, I had to give up the mountain near the city, and our JTs in the area are wounded except the one in the city. If you think you need more JTs there, consider whipping one in Teno - but the city is quite unhappy as it is right now, and switching it to a temple for happiness, to get the two irrigated plains into reach and to deny the enemy the use of the roads would be much better, IMHO.

I still haven't bought a tech yet, feel free to do so.

The army in Inca lands is unmoved as well; there's an archer approaching who could be attacked in the jungle next turn, or you could retreat the army to wait until he is on open ground. That would open a mountain path for the enemy to Palenque, though.


Roster:
Aggie
Kylearan
akots <-- UP
Rubberjello <-- on deck


-Kylearan

Got it and will try to play today. Guess priority goes to building another city to get the army ASAP.

Preturn: CI switched to settler, ready in 2 turns. Our leader, 18th rabbit, runs like a rabbit to hide in a quiet place. Army attacks Vilkas, kills 2 spearmen, creates 1 slave and the city is autorazed. Slave runs to Palenque to chop some jungle. Trade maps around and buy construction from Iro for WM+250g+1gpt. We are in no shape to research. Engineering takes 40 turns at 50%. We can get blood cult from Aztec in exchange for peace and construction. Iro has no Middle Age techs and Inca do not want to talk yet.

IBT. Spanish galley sails around. Tikal spear->settler.

[1] 1551AD. JT kills JW. Army kills Incan archer. Whip JT in Teno. IBT: CI settler->Colosseum :lol: Teno JT->temple.

[2] 1552AD. JT kills JW. IBT. Spain demands 26g and map, we happily give them what they want. France and Portugal signed alliance against Inca.

[3] 1553AD. They razed Incan city on Pacific coast. If their war continues like this, Inca can be a poor slave generator for our cultural machine. Good thing is that if Aztec and Inca are eliminated before they build wonders, we would be the only ones able to build them. IBT. Palenque rax->settler, Bonampak JT->JT.

[4] 1554AD. Lagartero founded, building spear. Army number 2 is built and is advancing towards Teotihuacan. Iro got Medieval Combat. IBT. Cuzco completes Temple of the Moon. Aztec start Temple of Kukulcan.

[5] 1555AD. Both armies advance in respective directions. Inca ready to talk. They have Ball games, Blood Cult, and all 3 European techs. Which means we can expect a curragh with MDI in it in our Pacific coast cities in to time. Fortunately, does not look like they hooked iron. IBT. CI Spear->JT.

[6] 1556AD. We capture Teotihuacan getting 1 slave in the process. We can now take blood cult from Aztec without giving them construction. Will wait one more turn on that. WM trades do not bring any cash. IBT. Some Portuguese MDI kills our future slave in battles against Inca. Aztec did not produce more units, time to make peace.

[7] 1557AD. Peace with Aztec for Blood Cult, 12g, and WM. CI has Temple of the Sun ready in 66 turns. Inca is not so cooperative. It would be possible to make peace and get Ball Games and then trade them to Aztec for Ornamentation, but it is too expensive atm. IBT. Aztec and France allied against Inca. Copan JT->JT, Palenque riots.

[8] 1558AD. Army enslaves a bowman near Machu Picchu.

[9] 1559AD. Army heals. Slave goes home.

[10] 1560AD. Army defeats two spearmen in Machu Picchu and we capture the city. It has two resisters.

Roster:
1. Aggie -> Preparing the javelins
2. Kylearan ->
3. akots -> Just played, captured Machu Picchu.
4. Rubberjello -> UP More Incan slaves? Or some techs from them?

You guys do know that we'll win this thing, right? But we won't get any style points for doing it! :p :p :p

Got it.

Well, I'm not so sure about winning this. I even think that we should keep the Inca quite strong, so that they are able to produce slaves, ehm units. I never played this one before but I really think that the Europians are a big thread with their VP's.

preturn: Sell maps around. I'm worried that weakening the Incas will give all of South America to the darn Colonialists. In my opinion, Ball Games is a totally worthless tech, and Body ornamentation will only give us the very short-lived Quetzal Bowman (Once we get Invention, Longbows will replace them).

1561 (1) Tikal (Settler->Temple) Bonampak (Spear->Temple) Lagartero (Spear->Barracks) Healing turn.

1562 (2) Incan Archer attacks our fortified JT on a Mountain and is enslaved. :rolleyes: Army still recovering in the South.

1563 (3) Palenque (Settler->JT) Well, this farming for slaves only seems to work when enemy units actually come! (None seen)

1564 (4) Copan (JT->JT) Army attacks Vilcabamba, kills one spear and gains one worker. Whip Temple in Tenochtitlan

1565 (5) England completes Luther's Thesis. Tenochtitlan (Temple->JT). Our army takes the town of Vilcabamba from a spear (no worker) but gains two workers from the ones hiding inside! Make Peace with the Inca - They've been hurt enough and soon mayb not be a viable Civ. They give us Monotheism and Engineering, we give them 200 gold and 14 gpt. (Those are really expensive techs from the Euros). Give Engineering and Monotheism to the Iros for Medieval Combat, 98 gold, and WM. We could get Ball Games and Body Ornamentation from the Aztecs for these three techs, but why give our future slaves any power?
We have 12 turns of peace left with the Aztecs.

1566 (6) French start Shakespeares. Healing up.

1567 (7) Yax (JT->JT) Found 2 new cities in South America on Incan Ruins.

1568 (8) Spain declares on the Inca. Inca sign Peace with Portugal.

1569 (9) Copan (JT->JT)

1570 (10) France Declares on the Dutch. Lagartero (Barracks->M.I.)
Our city culture is at 1800 and +23 per turn. We have an even 30 workers who can be sacrificed (+1200 culture) Only 1000 to go! 7 more turns till we can pick on the Aztecs some more. Am sending some more JT's up North in anticipation of that. We have 453 gold and +23 gpt. Current leader in VPs is Netherlands, but the other Civs ought to start cha-chinging in their treasures on a regular basis soon. I think we will have no worries up until turns 115-125 (on turn 80 now)

The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RBC14F-1570AD.zip)

Longbows can't enslave, can they? So I think that the Quetal Bowman isn't that short lived. OTOH a JT army is far superior. I really wonder if it is a good idea to take out these cities of the American tribes. They will be weakened and therefore can't bring us the slaves.

No, Longbows can't enslave. But once we gain Invention, we can't build the Quetzal Bowmen any more. (Longbows overlay them.) M.I. are better than Longbows anyway, and we can build a few of those to try to scare off the Euros. (No enslave either.)

IIRC with Theology we can build missionaries which can enslave and are invisible. :lol:

Great turns and strong progress!

Roster:
1. Aggie -> UP
2. Kylearan -> getting ready
3. akots ->
4. Rubberjello -> just played

I agree that we shouldn't capture more cities from the American tribes anymore, they've been weakened enough already. I had originally thought we had planned to enslave Incan units only and not cities, but I guess they just had no units to enslave execept their garrisons... :rolleyes:

Has CI a colisseum already?

IHT: We will finish an aquaduct in the capital next turn. After that a colosseum and cathedral can be built.

IT: Portugal and France MA vs Netherlands. CI: Aquaduct->Cathedral.

Turn 1 (1571 AD) I decide to send all troops north and declare on the Iroquois...

IT: England and France MA vs the Netherlands.

Turn 2, 3 (1572, 1573 AD) Troops movement.

Turn 4 (1574 AD) I won't go after the Iroquois, with the MW's. The Aztecs however should be easier.

Turn 5, 6 (1575, 1576 AD) :sleep:

IT: Texcoc finishes the Temple of the Sun (Aztecs).

Turn 7 (1577 AD) I declare war on the Aztecs. I really don't understand why we were at peace when I got my turns to play. 7 turns 'no catching slaves'!
I capture two workers outside Tlaxcala. One JT army kills a spear in that city, but no slave.

IT: The Inca finish the Temple of Kukukclan.

Turn 8 (1578 AD) Three QB's are now outside Tlaxacala. I kill them with a JT army and another JT. We get 2 slaves here.

Turn 9 (1579 AD) Three QB's leave the captial and we take them out with a JT army and a JT. One slave.

Turn 10 (1580 AD) I kill a QB, but no slave.

I haven't traded or anything. But increased the number of slaves. We have 34 now (34 * 40 = 1320 cp's). We are at 2030 CP's, can be at 3350 cp and need 650 more if (17 slaves, but probably less, because we make 23 cpt).

Sorry for my sober playing style. I tend to go for the goal in a straight line...

Cool, we are almost there. Within next 20-40 turns Portugal and others would start making decent VP. So, time to get these 10 slaves and wrap it up.

Roster:
Aggie -> just played.
Kylearan -> UP
akots -> ready
Rubberjello ->

Got it..........

I switch tiles so that CI can use all mined grasslands to complete the cathedral sooner. I'm surprised it doesn't have a cathedral or colisseum already. It should have built these even before an aqueduct IMHO, as this scenario is all about culture, and earlier cultural buildings will shave off a turn or two.

Bonampak is building regular JTs? Changed to barracks. Prevent Teno from rioting.

Why have we irrigated a grassland tile when we are still in despotism?

I'm not sure why we are researching invention at 10%? Siegecraft and trebuchets would look much better to me, especially because we have MDIs already. At least we could buy siegecraft anytime we want to, even without making it cheaper by our own research, in case any European decides to attack us.

F8 reveals that the Dutch are leading the VP race, but with 7040 VPs only.

(1) 1581AD: Inca and Iroquois have signed peace. The French receive a tribue of TM, 53g. 2 dead QB = 1 slave.

(2) 1582AD: An Aztec curragh sails along our southern coast, so I reinforce garrisons.

(3) 1583AD: England and France ally vs. Inca. 1dQB=0s. That won't do: I declare war on the Iros. We have enough units (2 armies, lots of JTs) to counter their MWs.

(4) 1584AD: Incas and Aztecs have signed peace.

(5) 1585AD: :sleep:

(6) 1586AD: Incas want to extend peace deal, but I decline - maybe they're worth a slave or two still. 2dQB=0s. Argh. Whip JT in Machu Picchu.

(7) 1587AD: Portugal received TM, 60g ("...this time!" :lol: ). Where the heck are the damn Iros?

(8) 1588AD: IC cathedral -> colisseum. MMed to max production, no growth. 1dQB=1s.

(9) 1589AD: A redlined Incan QB enslaves a veteran JT of ours on defense. Then, our second JT kills the QB and we have one more native worker. :crazyeye:

(10) 1590AD: 1dQB=0s. WHERE ARE THE DAMN IROS?!?


Including slaves, we have 3709 culture in IC now, making 26cpt. So akots will win this game for us during his turns. I was already gathering our workers near IC; once they have cleared the jungle at Lagartero, they can head to IC and sacrifice themselves.

As expected, a not-so-difficult scenario, but fun nonetheless. Of course we had great luck with getting the early leader, but I think we would have won this without an army as well without much problems. But of course, the army made it ridiculously easy, as always - I dislike them more and more. Most games I play end up becoming way too easy once I have one or more armies. I still hope they will get nerfed in the upcoming patch!

Thanks to the team for a fun game! I would have made a lot of things differently, so this was a very interesting game for me. :)

-Kylearan

So you noticed that I rushed this one Kylearan :blush: I guess the fact that we are doing so well caused me to be a bit sloppy. I fear that it hardly made a difference though. I would sacrifice the slaves now. They MIGHT be captured by a European landing party and then we are far from the end.

I agree with the armies. They will be fun again when the AI also builds them or attacks them.

EDIT: The Inca give us two workers for peace. 80 culture points more. I would take it.

But of course, the army made it ridiculously easy, as always - I dislike them more and more. Most games I play end up becoming way too easy once I have one or more armies. I still hope they will get nerfed in the upcoming patch!-Kylearan

Kinda agree. Against the AI, far too powerful. But against another human opponent, they can get killed off pretty easily, I find. (Way too easily, considering how hard it is to get one in the first place against a human opponent!)

I would sacrifice the slaves now. They MIGHT be captured by a European landing party and then we are far from the end

Good point. Man would it suck if a European MDI would capture all of our slaves in one cheap sneak-attack... :eek: :lol:

But against another human opponent, they [armies] can get killed off pretty easily, I find. (Way too easily, considering how hard it is to get one in the first place against a human opponent!)

I don't play MP, but I can imagine how easily they can get killed. I would try hard to get rid of my enemy's army ASAP as well. ;) But I guess in MP, everything (armies, cities, resources etc.) can get destroyed pretty easily if your opponent focuses on this and your main forces are elsewhere, can't it? I don't think that can be changed.

-Kylearan

Got it. Will post shortly.

I would not say it is too easy. We are just too strong team for this game...

Preturn check. We are at turn 100 exactly. Portugal leads the race at 12370VP. There is not much time left. We have 2269cp in CI and 36-38 slaves (counted 4 times with different results). Slave sacrifice would make 1440cp for total 3709cp. We need 5 or 6 more to be sure. Hope that Iro get around and we get a few more. Trade 2 workers from Netherlands for 270g. Make peace with Inca and trade 2 slaves plus Feudalism for 24gpt. Upgrade 3 spearmen in CI to pikeman in case some European civilization decides to attack. Even with the slaves at hand, we win in 6 turns. It is very unlikely that Portugal can gain 22K VP during this time.
IBT. Iro requested audience. They want 4 slaves for peace. No way! Yax JT->pike.

[1] 1591AD. Yes, let the blood flow. The whole game was started because of this moment. This is really exciting. We lose JT army to pikemen defending Tlaxcala. We have 2909 cp. IBT. Aztec suddenly show some activity by landing Q-bowman near Palenque and advancing with JW and MDI in the north.

[2] 1592AD. Q-bowman is enslaved and slave is escorted to CI with all due haste. Our sacrifices please the gods! We are still getting 40 cp for each slave killed by our butchers! Culture 3401 and still 14 slaves left.

[3] 1593AD. We are at 3947cp in CI. There are still 2 more slaves on the way.

[4] 1594AD. CI is at 3973cp.

[5] 1595AD. We are at 3999cp.

Thanks all for playing this funny little game! It was a great pleasure and really satisfying especially for the last 4 turns.

Various sceneries after:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RBC14F-victory.JPG
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RBC14F-stats.JPG
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RBC14F-score.JPG

Save before victory:

Bah! The Gods are NOT pleased! No pyramid for the blood letting? Talk about low-class! Nothing for future generations of fat American tourists to wander about on 1500 years from now? :rolleyes: :mischief:

Just kidding, guys. Thanks for the game. It was interesting given that I've never played this scenario before as a New World Civ. Thanks all!