Sling3 – 2550BC – Isabella’s Redemption?

2550BC Preturn – Decide on something a little radical and swap to settler in 4. BW in 12
4turns waiting on settler and mining a bg then I set to walls.

[4] 2430BC – Moving settler to cut the choke.

[6] 2270 – Settle Barcelona. Walls are in set to warrior. Still no contact.

[8] 2230 – Warrior > Warrior.

Still no contact. So either I got away with one or we’re alone here.

Batting order:

Greebley - Found the map.
Barbslinger - Took a chance on a settler.
Yoshi - Building some defense and UP!
T_McC - on deck
Cuivienen -
Yom - is your computer up yet?

The save. Are we alone?

OMG, you guys finally got a map without 4 civs right next to you! AWE is very hard to do...good luck!

@Greebely: Are Barbs turned on in this game? If they are, I'm starting to think we are on an island by ourselves. The AI should have wandered by to frag camps.

I do think we need a Granary in Madrid, especially if we are on an island. If we're alone the name of the game is quick settlement and improvement. We can have a slow learning pace until we meet other people. No need to research much at first if we can help it.

Granary is up and running in Madrid. My feelings were the same on being alone except for getting to lit at a moderate pace and securing the GL with a way ahead of time prebuild.

Do you guys realize the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over & over, expecting a different result? :lol:

Anyway, fingers crossed, and good luck! :goodjob:

The granary got build very early. I went Warrior, Granary in the hopes of getting the Granary before contact.

I also built a Barracks and walls right away.

Yoshi mentions in the other thread that he won't be able to play in this one. Handy, do you want to play? You could take his spot and get beaten about the head with enemy MDI bearing maces along with the rest of us. It'll be fun!

Yes, unfortunatly i'am too busy for the next time to contuinie this with you. But i will watch and wish you all luck and a 50-1 kill ratio ;)

I don't think we'll see another 50-1 kill ratio again, certainly not if we're on the island/continent alone.

@handy: Insane and proud of it! There's a succesful Germany AWE going on... just because Spain is... erm... not ideal for AW doesn't mean it can't be successul! (Go Spain!)

btw, When I played ahead on the China save when we decided not to use it, I didn't meet the Dutch until ~1150 BC, the Koreans until ~300 BC and the Carthaginians until 10 AD. And they were all on my continent! We may yet meet other civs.

We'll miss you Yoshi.

Greebley - Found the map.
Barbslinger - Took a chance on a settler.
T_McC - Up
Cuivienen - on deck
Yom - is your computer up yet?

OK, I got it and will play tonight. I think I'll have to push the boundaries back a little to see where to settle. Hopefully we don't meet anyone soon.

Cross quote from From HNDY03
PS: Handy did you want to play in Sling3? one of our players couldn't join us. We could slip you in at the end.

I'd love to play Sling3 if you still have room. Slot me in whereever you like. :D
If you filled up befroe I got back to you, no problem, I'll lurk.

Sling3 - This Time, It's Personal!

2150 BC (0)
OK, Capital has Barracks and is building an 18-shield Warrior. Bad. So ... I switch to the logical alternative of a Temple. Growth is in 4, Temple is now in 3 and will complete with 33 shields. I think the lux tax will be worth more that 1 gpt soon, so not a bad investment. Also makes it easier to let Madrid grow large.

Barcelona poaches a tile that Madrid just relinquished. Doesn't make a difference due to corruption.

Bronze in 2 at +1 gpt, with 12 in the Bank. Can't get it in 1.

We know no one.

Why does everyone seem to use "Show Food and Shields on Map"? I think it is much easier to differentiate between BG and regular Grass with it off.

<Return>

2110 BC (1)
Warrior automoves to Barcelona, worker slides over to road BG.

Adjust sliders to get extra 2 gold when Bronze pops.

2070 BC (2)
Bronze comes in, and I'm torn on research. I think Warrior Code is the most flexible choice. If we're alone, we can speed to Monarchy. If we have neighbors, we have an offensive unit.

Science to 90%, due in 8 at a loss of 2 gpt with 16 in the bank.

2030 BC (3)
Madrid completes Temple, lux tax to 0%. Starts on Spear which will complete in 2.

1990 BC (4)
Madrid grows to size 5, lux tax back up to 10%.

1950 BC (5)
Madrid completes Spear, goes to Warrior. Begin exploring north with regular Warrior.

1910 BC (6)
Madrid completes Warrior, goes to Settler timed for growth to size 6.

1870 BC (7)
Barcelona completes Walls, goes to worker. Next build after worker should probably be a whipped Temple to pull the Whale.

Find really nice site in the North, river forest game.

1830 BC (8)
Warrior spots a barb camp. No neighbor up here most likely. Woo-hoo!

1790 BC (9)
Madrid builds Settler, and we're back to that nasty 9 spt. Set to Spear, but I'm uninspired. We actually need to clear forest to find non-BG, or let Madrid grow and pop the settler on a 7 --> 5 transition. So Madrid grows to size 6, then we pull a Settler to time with growth to size 7. This would actually be much more efficient than what I just did.

Anyway, settler heads for Hill south of river game. (Conveniently, 3 steps from Madrid. :) ) Oh, it is also the future home of the Great Library. An irrigated grassland Deer allows the city to work 4 forests at size 5 for 9 spt.

Warrior Code due in 1, adjust sliders to squeeze out a few more coins. Tile shuffling and killing the lux tax gains back almost all of the lost gold from deficit research. This is also the first turn where the Temple more than pays for itself.

1750 BC (10)
WC comes in, I select IW. We do need to find the Iron, then we are good to run for Lit. Break-even is 15 turns, but that will fluctuate as we found more cities.

Final Notes:
It would behoove us to find a lux or two on this island (?). We have decent terrain to run our cities big, but if we have to run 30% lux to let cities grow to size 7, we may be in trouble.

Barcelona does need a Temple, as it only has one 2-food tile if it does not poach from Madrid. And Madrid needs the poached tile at size 5. We have to clear a forest tile to allow Madrid to grow to size 6 and use only 2-food tiles.

I would be very tempted to start the new city on a Granary immediately instead of Walls. I spoke too soon about the G.Library. We need that city to produce settlers. We can only build 1 settler every 10 turns in Madrid, and I think we need to settle faster than that. The new city can do 6-turn settlers, so we'd get 8 every 30 turns or better than 1 every 4.

MM note: After Madrid builds the current Spear, you can give it back the river BG that Barcelona is currently using. Disband the reg. Warrior to put two shields in the box and complete a 2-turn Spear. (I couldn't do this on my turn because that Warrior was needed for MP.) The Spear will complete with city growth and sets up an easy 5-turn, 10 spt Spear-Settler pair. The problem with allowing Madrid to grow to size 6 right now is that we run out of 2-food tiles, so we'll have to live with a 6-4 cycle for a little while longer.

More workers, but I don't know from where.

The red dot is where the city should be built. The only negative is it isn't coastal, but it will be a very good city for us.

The blue dots are some other tentative sites. The site NE of Madrid is on a BG, but that's the only way to get the river. The northern dot is also on a river, and the eastern is on the coast.

I would suggest we go for Lit right away and start barcelona on the prebuild NOW. Spain is not a strong civ until it gets its UU and the GLib puts it one tech from it. It also saves us a LOT of gold. Madrid can produce settlers for us. I think getting the GLib is the single most important thing when playing Spain.

I would agree with Barcelona on the pre-build, but only after the worker finishes and we get a Temple there. Barcelona is an awful city as it is currently configured. Once it gets access to more tiles it will be just fine. I shadowed a few more turns, and the Temple can complete very closely with the re-growth to size 2.

I wouldn't rely upon Madrid alone to produce settlers. Until we get out of despotism we can't make them any faster than 1 per 10 turns. If we are alone on an island (or more especially if we're not), we can't concede the land grab like that. It seems the north is unoccupied (or else someone would have come and gotten that Barb camp) and I want us to fill it up. The Great Library is wonderful, but an early FP would make it even better. So I feel the newly-found city should be used as a settler source.

Getting the Great Library and (voluntarily) being about an 8CC is no way to win either.

[Edit: We also have to get the city count up to make our Palace at least 200 (300?) shields, or we may run the risk of our pre-build outpacing our research to Lit. No problem if we switch research target to Writing, we haven't put any beakers into IW yet.]

Sling3 – 1750BC – Isabella’s Redemption?

1750BC Preturn – No mm’ing to be had per T_McClure and the settler is on his way. Nice. That makes it easy. I’m thinking the googie hut will be trouble from past DG/D trys so I’ll stay away until we can use it for promos.

IT – Madrid expands and since we have not met any other civs I’m going temple to set up the GL. I don’t want it costing us cash. We will be first to lit and if we are alone we will get it. Just don’t want the extra cost of supporting the people.

[1] 1725BC – I move per McC’s moves in the posts but I’m wondering,if we’re alone we’re losing a BG none of the cities can reach. Let’s play it out. Workers (2) move to improve grass near Barcelona.

IT – Madrid – Spear > Curraugh to tour our north for us. I’ll back it up if necessary.

[2] 1700 – Seville founded o the N hill. I think we need more workers if we’re alone. This is really a tough call on what to set this to. I’m thinking palace for GL due to the forests, but then you can’t switch. Once cleared it may be a killer city. Worker is in 5 which does not jive with growth. I’m setting a temple for now. I can switch if we me meet someone. Our northernmost warrior meets a barb camp. He may by the farm. Ther are two there. I’m going to fortify on the hill, if I get a chance.

IT - ---

[3] 1675BC – Move up a hil towards barb camp, balls in hand.

IT – Balls work and we may take out the barb camp. In other news the curragh begins sailing and Madrid decides on archer for barb hunting.

[4] 1650 – The curraghs 1st move exposes land 4 tiles W of Madrid. No one there as yet. Nor will we have to see them. 25g from the camp that the northern warrior war ‘exploring’ . We’re going to need some archers to keep killing barb camps up here I think.

IT – Madrid flames from my lack of seeing the pop change but due to the barb camp takeover we get a palace expansion. My bad. Front door added.

[5] 1625 – It looks like a whole continent next to us. We won’t be alone for long but perhaps when they show up we can keep them at war. Well of course we will. I’m sailing north and away.

IT – nada

[6] 1600BC – More land lays east. Do we want it? IW in 9 @ -1gpt still but this is intriguing. That’s a lot of land over there. We’re doing 10spt in Madrid but need more settlers.

IT – Madrid – Archer > Settler. DTCH COMPLETE COLOSSUS.

[7] 1575 – Dammit, I landed the worker ready to chop and the count is not working out. I’m chopping anyway. Let’s get good tiles. I’m thinking we’re alone here.

IT – nada

[8] 1550BC – Curraugh keeps towards our side per non involvement. There is nothing there yet, but I feel it coming. Archer heading south.

IT – nada

[9] 1525 – Warrior heading home and curragh taking care of noth island fog uncovering. Lot’s of mountains up there, not good. Drop IW to 4t at –3gpt. We have a lot of mountains.

IT – Madrid – Settler > Warrior, for future sword, tough they are 60g@? Not sure here. Do we want 12-18 warriors? I think we do. We’ll have the cash then when they get mapmaking.

[10] Moved the units.

Take it away. New conversations now. We’ll be able to see them settling but possibly no contact.

The save to claim our island.

Slinger,

Not to be rude, since it is your game ...

but didn't you play before me? :lol:

Who's up now? According to the roster, I am. And then is it your turn again? :rotfl:

Have to admire the enthusiasm. :goodjob:

I nominate Cuivienen to assume control.

Slinger,

Not to be rude, since it is your game ...

but didn't you play before me? :lol:

Who's up now? According to the roster, I am. And then is it your turn again? :rotfl:

Have to admire the enthusiasm. :goodjob:

I nominate Cuivienen to assume control. Sorry T_McC. Iknew I was up in two different ones. It was the overlords I was supposed to play. Take my turn please, my bad. I just finished playing grs01 and I'm wiped out from that. I'm sorry. My enthusiasm confused which AW I was supposed to play when I made it home from work. I haven't played in 5 days except cleaning up a few years here and there in GOTM31 and I got home. thought it was this one and downloaded and played. Sorry. I'm giggling now. My bad, but that's funny that happened. Sorry team.

Mistakes happen. I have played out of turn myself. Cuivienen can just grab your save Barbslinger and continue.

I really do think we should start the GLib in Barcelona after the temple is built, or pick some other city. It will hurt our growth slightly, but I build wonders on emporer this early alot. Its the only way to get them. We have a reprieve from the normal attacks. Lets use it.

Agreed that Cuivienen is up! And should continue where Slinger left off.

Agreed to start the pre-build following the Temple. Players should be careful, though, that our pre-build doesn't outpace our research. I think Barcelona can pull 4 spt at size 2, I'll have to check how expensive our Palace is. If we research Writing --> Lit, we don't have anything to fall back on except a Granary, so we can only hold 60 shields of pre-build if we would inadvertently build the Palace. Just requires diligence.

I'll take a look at the save and have a few more rantings. Beginning with: Let's try not to let Madrid build a settler and drop down below size 4. We can replace 2 pop in 10 turns regardless how large Madrid is, and we can use the extra commerce at size 4 relative to size 3.

- 14-Shield Warriors are a wasteful build in Madrid. 21-Shield Spears are more efficient. When Madrid reaches 10 spt, then we can squeeze out a few Warriors for upgrade.

- The forest chop completes on this IT, so we definitely do not want to be building a Warrior in Madrid. If you disband the reg. Warrior and set the Governor to "Emphasize Production", I think we can get a 1-turn Spear. (2 from the Warrior, 10 from the chop, 8 or 9 from the growth + shields.) [Edit: Just checked, this works.]

- Seville wants a Granary and a Temple, then can produce settlers. Temple first is fine, then forest chops can complete the Granary. The North is not as fertile as I would have hoped, but we still want all of it.

- Not sure where Slinger was sending the Settler. Possible Dot-Map below.

- Seville (or the next city) should probably spawn a worker soon. We want Barcelona on a Palace pre-build, and Madrid is best used for military and Settlers.

- Both Barcelona and Seville can use a 2nd MP. Madrid builds about 3-4 troops between settlers, and until we meet somebody can probably support all of our military alone.

- When I checked F11 during my turns, I couldn't help but notice that the Vikings were in the game. Coastal cities should probably be built on Hills when possible.

- Forget my rantings about the Palace, it's already 300 shields. We don't have to watch the pre-build too closely yet.

Dot-Map of the North
The southern red dot is off the river, but has a few good tiles to work that won't require poaching from either Madrid or Barcelona. The city can grow fairly large as it has all the NE land tiles to work.

The NE red dot pulls the forest game immediately, and could be a monster city as it can work 5 hills at size 6 with an irrigated deer. Coastal, but on a Hill. I don't believe Amphibious Assaults ignore city walls, so we should be fairly safe from 'zerks. The AI won't bring 3 boats full against a single target.

The central red dot is on the same side of the river as Seville.

Dot Map of the South

Red dot is from northern map.

The two northern blue dots are coastal cities on Hills. West pulls two fishes with a Temple, and may be good for workers. The eastern is a river/coastal site, so good trade. Pot luck on tiles though. The southern-most dot is just a guess.

Trying to turn it into a two-person game, are you, barbslinger? Hehe. I don't mind being skipped, but at least warn me first ;)

Got it.

1500 BC (IT) --

Change Madrid's Warrior to a Spearman.
*enter*

1475 BC (1) --

Barcelona: Temple --> Palace (GL prebuild)

No BG under the Forest. Oh well.

Settler on Go-to? Well, it is going to the obvious location. Still :nono:

1450 BC (2) --

Madrid: Spearman --> Settler

Settle Toledo on the southernmost red dot. Warrior.

Just noticed that Lux is at 10% when it doesn't need to be. Lux lowered to 0%.

1425 BC (3) --

Iron Working --> The Wheel. (Where the horsies be?)

There is Iron across the straight and next to Barcelona.

Our Archer spots Silks to the south.

1400 BC (4) --

Not much of interest...

1375 BC (5) --

Seville: Temple --> Barracks (We now have to reduce Science to prevent us from losing all of our cash.)
Barcelona's culture expands.

1350 BC (6) --

Madrid: Settler --> Spearman
The Settler heads for the western blue dot.

1325 BC (7) --

Toledo: Warrior --> Worker

Now that we can afford it, Science up a notch. The Wheel due in three.

1300 BC (8) --

The Ottomans complete the Oracle at Istanbul.

We meet a barb Galley just beyond Barcelona.

1275 BC (9) --

We beat back the barb Galley.

Madrid: Spearman --> Settler

Culture expands at Seville and, miracle of miracles:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Mysticism.jpg

The Wheel is due in 1, so Science is cut to increase profit.

Overruning a barb camp to the south gets us 25 gold.

Santiago founded on the western blue dot. A Warrior leaves Madrid to defend it.

1250 BC (10) --

The Wheel --> Writing (We'll need Literature and Map Making sooner rather than later)

There are Horses right outside Toledo! Wonderful!

And that's all she wrote!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Iberia.jpg

>>Save<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Sling3_BC1250.SAV)

Do we really want to take our capital to size 2 by building that settler? I should hope not! If we could have gotten the Capital onto a 7-5 cycle for settler building we could have had a settler, 4 spears and a warrior every 10 turns. No other city would have to build military. It would take 16 turns from now to get that set up (until our next settler). If we go 5-3 on the settler, we get 3 Spears and a settler every 10 turns.

Nice to see a couple more workers queued up, but I still think the best use of the game tile at Seville is to produce settlers (chop and irrigate). A granary is consistent with this plan.

Good that we have a lux in the south, and I'm amazed we still haven't met anyone. Did you set this up as a one-on-one game Greebley? :lol:

Slinger: Who's up? Who's even in the game?

I think I'm up. I won't get it until tomorrow night though. Right now, it's time for me to grasp the reins of power in Scandinavia ;).

Greebley -
Barbslinger -
T_McC -
Cuivienen -
Handy - Ready to Rock? and Up
Yom - On deck. Yom I know you're your having computer trouble, let us know.

Just noticed I'm up. :D

I can play tomorrow night. I'll post a got it when I get home from work.

Hello Cuivienen :wavey: pleased to meet you. High scool? I'm so old I had an 8-track in my car in high school. :lol:

I GOT IT. We are playing the 1.15 patch - right? will post by midnight.

I'm reading the turn logs now.

We will soon be Immortalized

Avoid doing anything to incur the wrath of T :lol:

Not the best start. There are loads of jungle to the south & mountains to the north. Ugh.

I do solemnly swear not to let Madrid build a settler and drop down below size 4. Hence, I switched Madrid to spear. We need a few of these for MP as well as defense.
Switch Santiago to walls (walls on the front line - everytime). There were no barracks in Santiago, and it’s a sin to build regulars in an AW game. I can’t recall ever building warriors (except scouts) in past AW games. We build spears for defense, & archers for counterattack. Change Seville from barracks to granary. We need both, but decided to go for the granary first, then temple to boost population more quickly, then the barracks. We can send an MP from Madrid.
Hit Enter

IBT
Good grief, is the game set to raging barbs? Three barb galleys move into position to sink our toy boat.

Turn 1 1225
Move toy boat 2 spaces, then fortify on the third for the defense bonus, and light lucky candle. There are even more silks down here by the coast.
Move spear towards Santiago. I’ll send the warrior to explore.
Sliders 80/0
The regular warrior is moving to pop the hut in the north. I bet we get 3 barbs. All I ever get are barbs. :mad:

IBT
:lol: fortified toy boat goes 3 for 3 versus galleys & is now elite. Lucky candle is hot tonight.
Madrid- spear – spear
Toledo – worker – barracks

Turn 2 1200
The warrior exploring S of Santiago spots more iron to the SW of Santiago near a fish. We should eventually build on top of that hill.
Move worker to chop a river forest near Seville.

IBT

Turn 3 1175
Switch Seville back to barracks, the chop would waste too many shields since it would come in the turn the granary is due.
Pop hut and get the obligatory 3 barbs.

IBT
Warrior wins 2 and promotes to veteran. Last barb chooses not to attack our redlined vet warrior.


Turn 4 1150
Explore

IBT
Madrid – spear – spear (still size 4)
Seville – barracks - granary

Turn 5 1125
Toy boat finds even more silks.
Sliders are 80/0 losing 1 GPT 37 in the bank. We get Lit in 6 more turns.

IBT

Turn 6 1100
Either we are on an island, or there is a narrow land bridge to the west.
Sliders move to 70/10 we still get Lit in 6.


IBT
Madrid – spear – settler (This is due in 3 and we grow in 4, so we will be pop 3 for 1 turn). Sorry I broke my solemn oath :(

Turn 7 1075
The Archer is way south, and he yellow lines killing a barb on top of a camp. The camp has another barb in it, so he’ll need to heal before taking it.
Holy cow literally. There are 2 cows in the west near what is either the end of the island, or a narrow bridge.

Turn 8 1050
Looks like a land bridge.

Contact – it is Persia. An archer showed up on what is clearly now a land bridge to Persia. They are a long way off, but surely by now have a large stack they will send our way. As you can see in the screen shot, they do not lack iron, so expect Immortals. I sure wish we had cats.

Turn 9 1025
Sell Mysticism to Persia for 225 gold. They would trade writing to us, but since it’s only 2 turns away, I took the larger cash offer.
Declare war. The walls in Santiago will finish before the Immortals arrive. There is only 1 spear there now, and it is surrounded by defensive marsh. We need a road for reinforcement.
Kill another barb in the south and see there is a barb horseman on the camp. That’s a lot of barbs for only 25 gold.
Choke There is a narrow 2-tile choke between Persia & Spain. It’s a great setup – if we could get there soon enough. Would be very tough to reinforce. If Persia is smart enough, they will block our future pillaging spear army by taking the choke. That would precipitate a naval landing of the spear army – on our own continent - :lol:
Veteran warrior loses attacking a barb camp up north.

IBT
Madrid – settler – spear
Aztecs finish the Pyramids

Turn 10 1000 BC
Archer kills his 3rd barb, and yet more remain.
The slider is 20/0 for 1 turn since writing come in on the IBT. Don’t forget to push research back up.

Notes:
1. I began moving the settler and 1 spear toward the blue dot S-S-SW of Barcelona. This will give some buffer to attacks on Barcelona (which is surrounded by hills – hard to defend).
The exploring warrior is fortified on a hill awaiting the Persian archer’s attack.
2. Should we irrigate the sugar @ Madrid to get more food there? It has a mine now.
3. Expect a rather large stack from Persia.
4. If we build a toy boat in Madrid, we can park it by the choke and use it as a troop spy.
5. The land in the south is really crappy. There are loads & loads of Jungle. If Persia has better land than we do (what I can see looks decent) we are in for a real fight.
6. Don’t forget to push research back up next turn after writing comes in. The Palace currently comes in 39 turns. We need to mine the iron to get it faster. First though we need mines on the grasslands we have chopped so we can build spears faster - we'll need them.
7. We need to build a road to the front line cities now, before Persia shows up.
8. Toledo is poaching a tile From Madrid since it gives us an extra gold. Switch back if you need to, Toledo will still pull 2 shields.

Our options are somewhat poor for this game. Currently we have a rather narrow front after the new city is founded. After that, expansion will widen our front and place cities in areas that give the Immortals a defensive bonus, and do not allow hour horses to retreat. This means we are going to lose a lot of units to Immortal counter attack (until we get cats anyway)

Plan A: The “Hail Mary” option would be to send 5 veteran spears and a settler (we have them I counted) to the narrow choke point, settle it and hope they attack. There is a good chance they will not attack. If they just walk right by the city, we lose the advantage. Even Persian settlers could get through with an escort since we have no way to attack them.

Plan B Keep the front narrow for now ( 2 cities). Settle our north first, then push forward in the South slowly when we can. Pillage the Persians like crazy men (especially the iron). Hope the other continent does not get too far ahead of us in techs.

I think Plan B is better, A is a loser I think. Anyone have a Plan C? :lol:

EDIT Ooops! I forgot to declare war like I said I did - phone call. Anyway I went back & replayed the turns & actually did declare war, this time forgetting the trade. :wallbash: So I went back a third time and re-played exactly, including trades & War declaration. Thank goodness this happened at the end of my turns. So use the "at war" save attachment! You should be at war with 261 gold in the bank. Save says "BC100", but it's really BC1000 in the game.

Persia

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SLING3_Persia.JPG

1000 BC

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SLING3_1000BCaw.JPG

Greebley -
Barbslinger -
T_McC -
Cuivienen -
Handy - Lucky candle finds us a target.
Yom - Up and most likely gearing up for initial onslaught.

I'm thinking we really need both swords and a pillaging of Persias iron. Also, that GL prebuild will be a big 'ol waste if we only know Persia. Hoping for an off continent contact. Although, as long as we steer clear of the upper half of the MA tree it will be nice right about the time we have cavs and the AI come calling with their navigation tech.

Welcome back Handy!

Yes - we do need some swords to kill Immortals - before they kill us! Their weak point is the turn they walk up, before they fortify in the defensive bonus marshlands or on a hill.

We need some cats too - big time. Typical AWE - we need everything.

Fortunately, at least for now, Persia is still very far away. Just looking at the map, the earliest we're likely to see Immortals is the tail end of Yom's turns, as our Curragh hasn't spotted a stack and we only just saw the first persia border at least 15 tiles away as the wolf runs. We have more reprieve than we think, in this case.

First things first: The Persians don't have Iron yet, otherwise the Advisor would warn us to fear their Immortals, not their Archers.

Secondly: Check the sliders. We can make a lot of money this turn and still discover Writing.

Third: Our pre-build likely has enough shields to go that we can research Math before Lit, if we so desire. If we can research Math in ~15 turns, we're good to get that first. Our pre-build has at least 39 turns remaining, and I suspect our Palace will reach the magic 400 shields before we get to Lit.

Unless this continent is even more oddly shaped, I am not convinced that the Persians didn't ride a boat here. They could already have Map Making.

Plains Sugar produces two food even when irrigated in Despotism. The mine is the proper play.

We may have enough money for a limited Warrior --> Sword upgrade, but we have to watch our research if we do. Tough call for the next player.

If we found on the choke, we will have to either build cats there, train a lot of workers, or research Map Making. Too many impassable tiles in between our core and that site.

It is not a bad thing to only have 1 neighbor when you build the G. Lib. If the two continents are separated such that only with Astronomy can the seas be bridged, we can get techs that are post-Education when the other civs find us. And we should have a large bank account and well-developed cities if we only have to fight Persia along a narrow front.

this looks interesting i will be lurking, good luck!

First things first: The Persians don't have Iron yet, otherwise the Advisor would warn us to fear their Immortals, not their Archers.


I was thinking that the advisor would show them lacking the resource if they had not hooked it up yet. Advisor does not show us up IW under techs. Could they have it hooked up, but have not yet produced an Immortal? At any rate, advisor warning us about archers (not Immortals) is very good news indeed.


Plains Sugar produces two food even when irrigated in Despotism. The mine is the proper play.

Wasn't sure about that, so I wanted to bring it up.

Check the sliders. We can make a lot of money this turn and still discover Writing.

Oops. Good catch. I had lowered them, then had to replay the turns when I realized I forgot to declare war when I got a phone call. (see edit to my turn log). Anyway, I replayed the turns, declaring war this time, but apparently forgot about F1. I'm glad you caught that! :goodjob:

We do have some time until Persia shows up. The new city may not have walls yet though when they arrive. We can spend the time building roads & walls & spears. The toy boat will tell us if they have a lone city (landed from a galley) or if this is their home base.

It just may be a lone city given how long it took to find them. This will be a challenge because of the land we have to work with.

I was thinking that the advisor would show them lacking the resource if they had not hooked it up yet. Advisor does not show us up IW under techs. Could they have it hooked up, but have not yet produced an Immortal? At any rate, advisor warning us about archers (not Immortals) is very good news indeed.

We don't have Iron hooked up. The advisor would have shown Iron(0) under resources for Persia if they had any hooked up. Conversely, if had ours hooked up it would have been much more obvious that the Persians had none, as Iron(0) would have appeared on our side. The screenshot you posted indicated that the Persians don't have Iron or Horses yet, as there is no Resource menu on either side. We have both, but haven't hooked them up.

We don't have Iron hooked up. The advisor would have shown Iron(0) under resources for Persia if they had any hooked up. Conversely, if had ours hooked up it would have been much more obvious that the Persians had none, as Iron(0) would have appeared on our side. The screenshot you posted indicated that the Persians don't have Iron or Horses yet, as there is no Resource menu on either side. We have both, but haven't hooked them up.

Ahhhhhhhh, Ok Thx. :D

Barbarians were set to Roaming.

I suspect the reason Persia did not enter our arm of the woods is because we didn't explore at all for the first 30 turns which means we didn't generate barbarians which means persia had no driving need to come visit. They probably have a big open area with only that small weird neck between us.

It never occurred to me that actually not exploring at all works that way, but I think that is right. It wouldn't work for a expansionist civ, and persia (or if he was close) would have eventually come, but if he has barbs to chase on his side but not ours; well it might be a technique to delay contact for certain games.

The reason we didn't explore is I went Warrior (fortify), Granary, Warrior(fortify), barracks. I wanted to get the Granary before contact.

PS: I think our layout is pretty weird already from what I can see of the layout. We are on a long winding peninusula

Place the town in the choke where our boats can cut through and not need to go around I see a hill that does this. It will give us an advantage later on when we can freely switch sides and the AI cannot.

I suspect the reason Persia did not enter our arm of the woods is because we didn't explore at all for the first 30 turns which means we didn't generate barbarians which means persia had no driving need to come visit. They probably have a big open area with only that small weird neck between us.


Quite possible. But maybe we also got lucky and there is another civ on Persia's side of the continent, and they are already in a war? Once we get to speak with Persia again, we could spy their city list for odd names like "Chicago" or "Ashur".

It didn't seem like they were very far ahead of us in tech, so that suggests either alone and researching @ 1st for both of us, or they have been fighting long and hard with their only neighbor.

Neither is a bad thing. If we're 1-on-1, we should be able to hold the choke against the initial flood of archers, and if we can pop a quick leader we may never have to face Immortals. If they are already fighting, we won't see many of their units and can backfill our side of the continent. Having this much land to work with (albeit land that needs some improving) is a real anomaly for this series.

Having this much land to work with (albeit land that needs some improving) is a real anomaly for this series. I was thinking the same thing last night. We're going to have more cities than we know what to do with. A nice worker farm would help. That double cow near the choke looks like just the ticket. Those mountains to the north are really disappointing. Don't know what to do with them. The next few turns will be crucial. Getting a road to the choke will help a lot.

'Got it.' But don't expect a report until tomorrow night. I'm up in RBC14B as well.

I was planning on playing it tonight (my first free weekday in ages), but my laptop has refused to cooperate :mad:. Just when I thought I found a way to get conquests to work, my computer starts to refuse to recognize the cd again! Skip me for now. I'll let you know when I get the laptop working and take a turn then.

Greebley - Up and looking for swords
Barbslinger - On deck,but wondering if T wants a double shot due to my error.
T_McC -
Cuivienen -
Handy -
Yom - Computer is on strike for a cleaner CD

Best I can tell, the roster is:

Greebley - Up!
Slinger - On deck, really!
T_McC
Cuivienen
Handy900
Yom - Skipped for this round

Got it. Hope to play tonight.

Preturn: Move some units. Want to deal with Barbs and send another spear with settler. Lower science by 50%.

IBT: Our warrior is Pithed by the Archer.

975 BC: Get 25 gold from the barb camp to the south.

IBT: Nothing yet.
Seville: Granary->Spear
Toledo: Barracks->Spear

950 BC: Going after northern Barb camp.

IBT:
Madrid: Archer->Archer

925 BC: Not much

900 BC: zzz

IBT:
Seville:Spear->Spear

875 BC: My troops start heading for the choke. Some spear and some archers.

850 BC: No change.

825 BC: Boat heads out to sea. Southern Archer moves next to a barb horse

IBT: Our archer is killed by the horse. A regular barb attacks an injured fortified warrior and loses.
Seville: Spear->Settler

800 BC: Our boat doesn't sink

IBT: Our horse road finishes. Soon we will have iron too.
Madrid: Archer->Settler
Santiago: Walls->Worker

775 BC: Our boat sees a new border but is one square short :eek:

750 BC: We get lucky and the boat survives. We meet holland. I buy Horseback riding for 167 (we cannot afford Math) and declare war. Switch Madrid to a warrior.

Notes:
I really think we want the choke point. I don't see it as some desperate gamble, but a viable strategy. We fortify spear on the squares and not let anyone by. It looks like 2 squares will block it.

When moving toward the choke, stay on the mountains and move a single spear first. That way if there is a SOD, we can head back.

We can now build HBR.

We have cash and may want some warriors?

We can see at least 1 iron north of the choke. It should be a high priortity target for us. A pair of spare spear would be ideal to send if/when we can afford to. If it is the only iron, then we prevent immortals and Persia is stuck with archers which probably won't dislodge our spears. 3 would be even better. If we see immortals any way (or persia with iron) then they may be destroyed, or they may be ignored. Persia does not yet have iron or map making.

There are barb camps in the south of our land. There are 2 warriors searching the North, but since they are upgradable, it might make sense to send them back to become swords.

We want a mine on the iron to speed the palace prebuild - 6 turns to Lit.

We are in a strong position to win. With only one civ on our continent, we should be able to destroy them once we have monarchy. We then send our Pillagers of doom across when we get astronomy or Navigation.

We really want to meet another civ over there. Persia is primitive like us (we are equal in tech) and we need 2 civs for the GLib. This is probably proof Persia has not met anyone. We should LEAD persia in tech if we can get the GLib. That'll be a change.

I feel strongly that we should try to hold the choke . I sent 4 spear and 2-3 archer. Swords can follow shortly.
We can settle on the red dot in the picture below, and put 2 spear on the green dot and we totally block off access to our lands. If a killer stack shows up; retreat all units to the town and they will pass it by and go for our other cities is my guess.

Solid playing, Greebley. I like the choke point plan.

One note to the next player, I think we need the Forest game at Seville chopped and Irrigated. Our settler production there is food limited, not shield limited, and I think we can just spam settlers south to the jungles to keep our unit support costs low.

Don't forget we are Religious. We can whip a Temple in any city in 10 turns. We're not going to win a cultural victory, but we can have a little more flexibility in grabbing good tiles.

Wouldn't it be a kick to get an SGL from Lit? Then we can have the Pyramids too!

Once we get MapMaking, if it's still possible, we can blockade that Iron tile across the bay from Seville. Persia with Archers is not so scary.

Since I blew it earlier accidentally doing T's turns, I feel it is right if T's wants, that he do my turns this round. I'm also up in 2 others and up to my ears in GOTM31.

We could skip you this round to even it out - but if you want to play, I have no problems with you taking your turns and playing if you want to. An extra turn doesn't really matter.

I would say it is your choice, Barbslinger :)

I got it and will play tonight.

Slinger could slot himself back in after me, or just sit out this round as "penance" for playing twice in the last round.

I got it and will play tonight.

Slinger could slot himself back in after me, or just sit out this round as "penance" for playing twice in the last round. How bout if T and I flip and if he wants 20 he can have them. I had 20 last round. If he only has time for 10 I'll play after.

Barbslinger, you didn't steal anyones turn. You merely played extra. TMcC got his normal turn last time.

Just reviewed the log and your right. I'll play after T. Unless of course he is playing and has completed 20 already. :lol:

Sling3 - Confused Alternatives

750 BC (0)
We're 4 squares from the spot Greebley picked out.

Settler in 3, I have a spot picked out. Then we need to get Madrid cracking on another. Looks like I get to implement my diabolical 7--5 plan at Madrid. :lol:

Like the worker at Santiago, a Temple is next.

Note to self, the lux tax has to be raised for Madrid next turn.

730 BC (1)
Madrid builds Warrior, goes to ... Spear. A barb horse is wandering around.

Also note, we have to shuffle tiles to get Madrid +2 food. However, lux doesn't have to be raised. Woo-hoo!

Snag 50 gold from a barb camp.

Slide Elite! Curragh around to find nothing new.

Ugh. Lot of shuffling necessary around Madrid, but we'll manage.

710 BC (2)
Barb horse promotes our Spear.

Toledo: Spear --> Spear. I think Toledo can supply the military for the settlers produced in Seville.

Upgrade a Warrior to a Sword. Will head for the front next turn.

690 BC (3)
Persian Archer kills one of our escort Spears. Means a 1-turn delay while I wait for more of the gang to catch up.

Seville pops settler, goes to Sword to absorb the forest chop.

Turns out tile shuffle won't be necessary, the extra shield at Barcelona is corrupted anyway.

670 BC (4)
Whack previously offending Persian Archer, slide stack to 1 tile from intended settlement spot.

650 BC (5)
Just movin'. Got Curragh around the N. tip of the Dutch continent, but haven't found anyone new.

Two settlers in place for next turn.

Turn down science rate, Lit next turn.

630 BC (6)
Lit comes in, research set to ... Math. Due in 10 at -1 gpt. Lux tax stays at 20% for Barcelona.

Madrid: Settler --> Spear. City can do Spear - Spear - Sword - Settler in 10 turns and drop back down to size 5.

Found Murcia Choke. Set to Walls. Found Valencia in the north, set to worker.

Spot a new colored border S of the Dutch. Green?

Great Library is due in 27.

610 BC (7)
Seville builds Sword, goes to Settler timed with growth in 5. Still need work to get this set up properly.

Contact the Aztecs, who appear to be at war with the Dutch? I could trade them Literature, but that would be just stoopid. Can't afford anything, so just declare war. We should get a nice haul from the G. Lib. It seems Monty had a lot of tech, so maybe there is someone else further south.

I really don't know what the Persians are doing. Still no Horses or Iron.

590 BC (8)
Sprechen sie vom Tuefel. The Persians show up with a load of crap. Mostly Warriors.

Have another Settler in place.

570 BC (9)
Dutch build ToA.

Persians are now adjacent to Choke. We are solid favorites, but they might just pass us by. The Swords are slowly advancing to the front.

Build Zaragoza in an awkward 1st-ring spot. Set to Temple. Needs some work, but will become a nice city someday.

Meet the Zulu, south of the Aztecs. Again, I can't afford anything and just declare war. Time to Mathematics drops to 5 turns.

Whack a couple Barbs, get no promotions.

550 BC (10)
Unmet Ottomans build the SoZ.

Persians frag a barb camp, and start to by-pass the choke. I did not put the Spears out on the other hill because I didn't think we had enough units to hold the Hill and the City. The Persians that are passing by will run into our Swords on the way. Once we can get a flow of units to the front, we can close it off more effectively.

Kill two Persians in forest next to choke, will have shot at the other guy next turn. Unless he's going in circles.

Frag a barb camp for 25 gold, kill a barb with our Sword approaching the Choke, lose a Warrior to a barb Warrior.

Final Notes:
We'll have to eat an increase in the lux tax next turn, as Seville cannot complete its Settler timed with growth. Alternative strategy is to swap to the river grass for this turn, then back to the Deer for the next. Then growth will coincide with Settler production.

We can get 1 more spt for our G. Lib build, but I don't think we can simultaneously maintain 10 spt in Madrid. There is a river plains tile being irrigated at the capital that might fix that. It's tough to give up a shield on our pre-build, but 10 spt at the capital gets troops out 33-50% faster than 9 spt. The way it is saved should have the governor pick the forest on growth for Madrid, but then you have to re-set the tiles for 10 spt. [Scratch that, you have to set the Capital for 10 spt again before you press enter.]

Math is due in 4 at +1 gpt, and we have enough money to upgrade the remaining 2 Warriors.

Judging by the fact we are 4th in pop, they must be jammed in like sardines on the other continent.

Beautiful! Nice turns T. I'll play tonight.

Blue circles are the new cities, blue Dot is a good spot for the next one. The new city would get a Game and fresh water, so should be good for workers.

And just to make Handy duck, try not to let Madrid fall below size 5. We can get 2 Spears, a Sword and a Settler every 10 turns. We can't do that if the capital gets smaller than size 5.

Picture of the Choke. The Sword is straggling along, and another is just leaving the core. I kept the workers in to improve our core, but hopefully we can train a few more in the near future to extend our road network S and W.

I am not surprised we are getting some leakage at the choke. My hope though is that we can control it to a certain extent especially when it come to settlers.

We have a lot of land. I hope we can grow to fill it.

Persia has map making and will start sailing around so we may still get some towns behind the choke. For now I think the most important point is to have the choke city established with walls and barracks. Later we can seal things off and start destroying units on our side. That way they won't be reinforced by a steady stream of units.

It looks like we will be safe from attack from the other continent until Navigation. That will be nice.

[Edit: Also TMcC, the save differs slightly from the Pics. Madrid has 9 shields and is building the sword in 2 turns.

I see that the one square I was hoping was water is land. That means we need 2 stacks and the town to close things off (though maybe we just want to kill them all :D

The picture looks different because I hit return to see if the Governor would pick a forest tile and complete the Sword on growth. It didn't, so I re-loaded and reset the tiles, then took the pictures. Gives Slinger something to do before he hits enter.

I also think there will be a lot of activity around the choke, but not a lot of attacks. Barracks is good, but I would also consider researching Map Making after Math, so we can boat units from our core over to the choke, Cats especially. If we can start flinging rocks the Persian stacks will spread themselves out for us. If we get a leader, plop a Spear army on the other Hill and force them to attack a walled city on a Hill.

Sling3 – 550BC – Isabella’s Redemption?

550BC Preturn – MM to get sword in 1 along with growth. Pick up a gold at the choke fishing. Santiago I speed build at expense of growth. Change Zaragoza to Rax. Notice we hav 5 offensive units and 11 spears. I’d like a little more offensive punch since the war is way over there. Swap Toledo to horse. Also put Santiago on Rax because I’m going to send the settler S to a spot NE of the marsh mountain hopefully getting the 3 bg’s in our territory and the silks on expansion. Man, did someone get lucky with a suicide boat! That’s quite a stretch.

IT – Looks like our little boats days are numbered as an Aztec and a dutch galley pop in right next to it. Persia pulls up a new 4 archer,2spear group. OUCH. Madrid-Sword>Spear.

[1] 530BC – Boat takes to the sea again with fingers crossed. Heal the archers at the choke and move swords forward. MM a bit to get 10 shields in Madrid. Cross fingers on choke attacks and ……

IT – Warrior attacks we go elite. Archer attacks we barely win. Another archer attacks and we lose. Boat survives! He’s a trooper.

[2] 510BC – Bring up the calc and it shows we’re 78% if bombard misses. 63% if they hit me. Damn, win 1 lose one and neither felt the bombard. Boat continues S on it’s merry way.

IT – We beat 2 archers at the choke. No leader. Our warrior fortified on a hill gets beat by a barb. Madrid > Sword, Seville-Settler>Worker.

[3] 490BC - Math due next turn but no slider move possible. Seville goes to settler instead. Healing at the choke.

IT – No attacks. Math>currency for markets. Iro build MoM. Dutch are building HG.

[4] 470BC – We’re 90% favs on defense so I’ll hold back.

IT – We kill four archers taking 2hp of damage and going elite. Toledo – Horse>Horse.

[5] 450BC – We meet the Ottomans. Come’on GL in 16. No deals except for lit. Declare war. 1 civ left.

IT – Madrid-sword> Settler. Valencia-Worker>Worker. Massive uprising near Zaragoza.

[6] 430BC – We have too much cash so I run a spear towards town and head the horse there too. Not much else except fiddling with Madrid MM. There are only 2 archers at the gates.

IT – Another elite spear win gives nothing.

[7] 410BC – Horse shows nothing. Playing chess with the 2 spears that got by the choke. Trying to get them off the hills into the flatlands. Got the seetler in Madrid and the growth even to pop in 2. Kill the remaining archer and when he moves it lights up spices 3 tiles N of the choke.

IT – Aztecs building great wall.

[8] 390BC – Checkmate. Unless they retreat they will have to go onto flats. Still no sign of uprising. I swap Toledo to spear for escorting settler that is popping. Great library dropped to 11 with growth.

IT – The spears hit the flats. Madrid-Settler>Spear. Seville- Settler> Spear. Ottomans are building SZ.

[9] 370 – Our merry boat is rounding the southern horn. Kill one of the spears. Surprised there is no action at the choke feels ominous as if Immortals take time to build. Swapped Santiago back to temple realizing the new town won’t get the borders I was hallucinating.

IT – 8 horses show in 2 group by our horse. Still miles from any town. Persia finally sends 2 archers towards the choke. Hope a defensive leader pops for ya. Toledo- Spear> Spear.

[10] Nothing much. A bit dicey in the south. The barb horses are 2SE and 1SE,1S of our horse in 2 groups of 4. I have a settler under the elite spear 3 south of Santiago ready to plant. Another settler is on a hill near Santiago and the last settler is heading north. Check Madrid, I may have dropped it from 10spt.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/sling3-350.jpg

Current Roster - Play Order ??

Greebley
Barbslinger
T_McC < - - UP?
Cuivienen
Handy
Yom - laptop problems

Cuivienen is up next. TMcC went before [edit: Barbslinger] and played last rotation too. He has gone twice same as I have. Cuivienen, Handy, and Yom have only had one chance to play.

Once Cuivienen goes we are back on track and can go in order barring additonal need for swaps and skips.

Okay, then, got it, but I may not be able to play until tomorrow. I need to finish Bede01 and RBC-14C first.

Sounds good. Settlers would be nice if you can manage them, though defending the choke is important too. I am hoping we can fill the land as much as possible. Looks like you get the GLib on your turns too. That'll be really nice. Pretty much guarantees our UU.

If we get map making then start a boat in Madrid. It would be nice to be able to ferry units across, and I would really like to land some spear on the northern iron to deny it from persia. We don't want a colony there and an upgrade to immortals.

I'm more behind than I thought in my SGs. This is top priority now, but it'll have to wait until tomorrow.

A few MM notes:

Santiago can be working the fish, it shouldn't be poaching tiles from our Capital.

Zaragoza could really use a Temple, as Slinger mentioned the borders won't auto-join if you found where the southern settler stands.

Right where the Archer is standing in the west is a good spot for a city, gets a cow for itself, and one for the Choke. Or two for itself. Either way, good to produce some of the 50+ workers we're going to need.

X-man still has neither Horses nor Iron. Boy, he got boned for resources.

I like the Hill NW of the forest game for the northern settler. Fresh water (and a couple more land tiles) is more important than the shot at a whale.

I think we need to concentrate worker attention at Seville. It can do 6-turn settlers in Despotism, or 4-turn in Monarchy, but it needs another couple of two-food tiles. The forest chops can go for military to escort the more slowly-produced settlers for now.

I don't think there is any point to the Currency research. We know at least two civs in the MA, so if we build the G.Lib we definitely will get Currency on the 9th IT. So turn research off, we can always restart if we don't get the G.Lib.

Alternative plan is to push research to Map Making (can do in 7), so if we lose out on the G.Lib we have a shot at the G.Lighthouse. We are currently the only ones with Lit, and I can't imagine the other two-civ continent having it either. We are a very strong bet for the Library.

I'm sure there is a good reason why we are mining a BG that is outside our territory, but it escapes me at present.

----

I'm moving to a new job, and will be off-line until at least Thursday the 27th. Swap or skip as appropriate.

I'm sure there is a good reason why we are mining a BG that is outside our territory, but it escapes me at present.

Long term planning? :lol:

Any progress Cuivienen? Will you be able to get this in the next day or two?

Sorry, I can finish up tomorrow, but not tonight. I have loads of schoolwork due tomorrow.

Sorry, I can finish up tomorrow, but not tonight. I have loads of schoolwork due tomorrow.

Well, hopefully your term is almost up and you will soon have lots of time to play. :D

I have a 12-page Lit paper due Tuesday, a 9-page Bio paper due Friday, five tests (Chem, Physics, History, Calc and Bio) next week... I'm only a Sophmore! I'm too young to die!

But after that I'll be home free for the year! (The last two weeks of school don't count.) Then I'll stop holding everyone up in my SGs. Anyway, got it for real this time.

Good luck Cuivienen on all that work! I so hated writing n page papers (as n-> infinity) when I was in school (especially english and history).

I would take the time you need for your turn. :) Taking longer on a turn due to end of school is not a problem.

*tap* *tap*... Is this thing on?

Cuivienen, if you can't play this weekend due to work load, maybe we should swap ya and have you play after tues?

Damn, I was ready to play this again. :lol: I almost did it again. I thought I was behind.

Greebley
Barbslinger
T_McC
Cuivienen - skipped but in soon after classes
Handy - up
Yom - laptop problems[/QUOTE]

You can play SGOTM2 now.

Greebley
Barbslinger
T_McC
Cuivienen - skipped but in soon after classes
Handy - up
Yom - laptop problems

Just noticed this.

I can get it tonight I think. Wife has a sinus infection, but can probably play after feed, play with & get the kiddies to bed.

OK I got the 350BC save. Will play later tonight.

We meet the world and pick their brains

Readers Digest Version:
Kids want to watch watch a movie, so I get to play.
Get the Glib.
Killed a bunch of barbs & archers.
No leaders.
Lose no units.
Galley ready to set sail to deny Persia Iron next turn.
Settle some cities.
Get some culture.
Pics in next post down.

Pre Turn
Switch Santiago to the fish for an extra gold. Still pulls 2 shields.
Research to zero in hopes of the Glib.
Decide to let one of the workers finish the mine near Santiago since then temple will allow it to be worked. The other worker is pulled to go to the capital.
Need more workers.
Zaragoza switched to temple per T’s idea. This pulls some food into both this city and the new city gets a BG when they auto fill in the tiles between them.

IBT
Eight :eek: barb horses spear SE of the settler. T_McC gets anarchy, I get barbs. I’ll move the workers to safer area.
Dutch Start Sun Tzu

Turn 1 330
Sword kills Persian spear & is now elite. Sword Army sure would be nice.
Found the great river city of Pamplona
Move sword out of Madrid to ward off the barbs. Lux tax ok as is. Madrid builds a spear next turn.
Santiago is empty, but gets a spear next turn.

IBT
8 Barb horses move towards an attack on Santiago.
Madrid – spear – spear
Aztecs start Hanging Gardens

Turn 2 310
Dinky (yellow lined) boat spots purple borders.
Kill Persian Archer @ the choke.
IBT
4 barbs attack & are speared @ Pamplona where we go Elite. The other 4 move west for some reason.
Dinky boat gets bombed & is redlined, yet a fully healed Otto galley sails right by him.
Seville spear – sword
Murcia – walls – temple
There is now a Persian city with some cultural overlap to the choke town.

Turn 3 290
Our horse kills a barb horse.
Meet the Vikings.
Not sure if we are allowed to build embassies in this game. I decide it’s more fun not to, so just declare war.

IBT
The remaining barb horses attack & lose. I guess they wanted to attack from the marsh. Why didn’t they just attack as an 8-pack instead of two separate four stacks?
Elite Spears @ the choke kill 2 archers. No leaders.
Toledo – spear – sword
Zaragoza- temple – barracks

Turn 4 270
Madrid switched to settler. We have plenty of spear escorts.

IBT
Santiago – temple – barracks

Turn 4 270
Sword kills archer @ choke.
I’ll let the 2 archers attack the elite spears next IBT. Maybe we get a leader.
Found Vitoria near the game tile & fresh water.

IBT

Turn 5 250
Not Much

IBT
Madrid – settler – spear for the Iron across the way.
We can build the FP now.
Valencia – worker – Barracks

Turn 6 230
Not much.

IBT
Iroquois finish the Lighthouse

Turn 7 210
We now have 360 gold.
Six archers have surrounded the choke. 1 vet.
Meet Iroquois & declare war
Kind of wish I had researched Map Making to trade for their maps. Oh well.

IBT
Iroquois & Otto are at war
Persia wants to talk.
Four elite spear win @ the choke. No losses. No leaders.
Seville – sword – sword
Temples fill our lands in with culture.

Turn 8 190
We’ll soon have three swords for an army in the choke in case we pop a leader.
Settlers are on the move to build a string of cities towards the choke.
Fortify Dinky – Viking galleys surround him.
Toledo switched to temple & hire a taxman because it would revolt.
Pamplona switched to Temple to pull in the Spices. Also someone :mischief: did not switch it to a food tile after the barbs were killed.

IBT
Madrid – spear – library (galley placeholder)
Spain gets the Glib
Barcelona – GL – barracks
2 elite spear wins

Turn 9 170
Moving settlers 7 stuff.

IBT
2 more elite spear wins
We learn: Philosophy, COL, Construction, Map Making, Polytheism, Currency, Republic, Monarchy, and Feudalism.
Research set to Monotheism with an eye towards Knights. Research is still @ zero though.
Dutch Finish hanging Gardens

Turn 10 150
Un-fortify & move dinky.
Move settlers.

Notes:
Choke
I played defense here. Spears in a walled city on a hill are our best odds. I was looking for an elite win on defense. No Luck. I did not want to waste a sword on offense attackign archers on a hill. Wanted to keep the swords in case we get an army.
Toledo is set to zero growth so it will not riot. After the temple in 2, fire the taxman.
Santiago is poaching from Madrid until Madrid grows in 4 turns. Soon Madrid will have more mines it can work.
Persian Iron
Galley will complete in Madrid on the IBT (4 wasted shields). Put the spear & sword in Madrid on the galley go sit on the Persian Iron ASAP. Maybe later we can send a worker to build a fortress. You may have to up the lux for a while to keep Madrid happy until you can get some MP there. It’s worth it to deny Persia Iron.
Settlers
The settler S of the Iron on the hill can settle there. Move the other settler 1 more tile NW. This way we have 2 tiles between each city along the “choke trail”.
F11 looks pretty good. :thumbsup:
Worker stuff
Barcelona needs a mine. It is now pulling 10 spt.
Madrid can pull 10 spt @ size 6.
Toledo needs some mines.
Santiago needs irrigation.
Probably need to start the road to the choke when the new cities you will settle the next 2 turns produce their workers.
Zaragoza will be a good city with improvements.
As always – if I missed something on the MM of the city tiles, let me know, I’m trying to improve this aspect of my game.

Handy :D

EDIT - The correct file is now attached.

150 BC

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SLING3_150bc.JPG


Persia

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SLING3_Persia1.JPG


Iroquois

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SLING3_IRO.JPG


Vikings

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SLING3_Vikings2.JPG

Is that all the civs or is there one more we can get a map from? If they're all gone it might have been a good move to have delayed the Iro contact until GL came in so as to of had a WM. Oh well, we'll see them all soon enough. GL was HUGE.
Pampalona looks like a great FP site down the line. Looks like we could use a couple worker farms. Once we clear that marsh out and secure the choke we will be set. Upgrading to some pikes at the chohe and a few pikes on the persian Iron will help. However, sooner or later they will meet the others and possibly trade for it. They have to go soon.
Nice work Handy!

Firstly, Map Trading comes with Navigation. We couldn't delay contact for that long.

Secondly, We can and should be revolting to Monarchy. Time for someone else to get an Anarchy. We're Religious, so little pain.

Thirdly, in Monarchy, Seville does 4-turn settlers with a little bit of worker attention. Once we fill our continent, it can do 2-turn workers. It may even be possible for Vitoria to become a worker factory.

I'll look at the save later to carp about the MM. :lol:

Firstly, Map Trading comes with Navigation.

:wallbash: My bad on that comment. Playing in the SGOTM games as regular PTW, then GOTM as modified PTW, then C3C has me messed up about the timing of maps. I need a cheat sheet.


Secondly, We can and should be revolting to Monarchy.

I wanted to get the galley out first to go for Persia's iron, then revolt. I should have said so in the notes.

I'll look at the save later to carp about the MM. :lol:

I'm all ears. :D

Firstly, Map Trading comes with Navigation. We couldn't delay contact for that long.
Whoops

Secondly, We can and should be revolting to Monarchy. Time for someone else to get an Anarchy. We're Religious, so little pain. Righty-O as always Mr. T.

All in all things look much rosier than Spain AWE has been.

Greebley
Barbslinger
T_McC
Cuivienen - skipped but in soon after classes
Handy - Collects all contacts for our mighty GL.
Yom - up with his laptop problems over

I'll look at the save later to carp about the MM. :lol:

Uhh ... Handy ... you zipped a JPEG instead of a SAV file. It's hard to MM pixels.

Uhh ... Handy ... you zipped a JPEG instead of a SAV file. It's hard to MM pixels.

Well that was smart :rolleyes: I can upload the save in about, oh 10 hours.

Try this zip file. :mischief:

I also attached the save to the turn log.

Just when I thought I had gotten conquests working again, it turns its back on me! I'm really sorry for this guys, but I've got to drop out of this and all other SGs until I order a new conquests cd.

Looks like Greebley is up in Sling3 and T_McC is up in HNDY03

Greebley - really UP
Barbslinger
T_McC
Cuivienen - skipped and out until she reports in
Handy - Collects all contacts for our mighty GL.
Yom - CD problems on again and back down

Ok, I think I am up in both. I will try to get to both of these tomorrow.

Guys I not going to be able to play until Sunday afternoon. My boss gave my room at the Hyatt on Huntington beach and my wife and I are leaving in the AM. We will be there all day Saturday with her in the Spa and I'll hit the beach with a cold one. Dinner, drinks and dancing at night.
If someone can swap after Greebley plays it would help move the game along.

I'll be able to return by the time this gets to me again. School's nearly over now, and I'm over the major hurdles.

I'll be able to return by the time this gets to me again. School's nearly over now, and I'm over the major hurdles. Great news. Congrats on getting through another year.

Preturn:
I think I prefer raising Lux a turn and putting the Toledo taxman on the forest. We get the temple a turn earlier (next turn).
I also feel growth in Zargoza is more important than getting the barracks quickly and set it to +2 food, but slows the barraks a good bit When it grow it will speed up again as there is no other +2 food tile to work.
Barcelona could be adjusted to work an irrigated plains instead of a hill. I also decide to let it build a Market instead of barracks. The towns already with barracks can produce units, and barracks/market is just not as good as market/barracks.
Valencia is difficult to decide. It needs a temple and market and is building barracks. Am I going to want to build units or one of the missing buildings? I decide I do want to build units so that one town that would have been dedicated to unit building can build a market instead.

IBT: Bunch of Archers appear

130 BC: Well I forgot something important last round: Waking up our spear and sword for upgrading. So I upgrade this turn while the boat waits. Oh and one MM issue handy since you asked. Valencia has 50% of the worker force and is only size 1. Making better decisions with workers is one of the things I need to work on myself.

Here is one thing that I muffed: I set Toledo to build the temple next turn, but during that turn a tree chop occurred and the temple was one shield short. :rolleyes: I decide to switch to an aquaduct so as to not waste shields. Since I am sending away MP, I need the higher lux rate anyway and I think aquaducts one of the most important buildings as they allow towns to start growing as they build other stuff.

I lose a sword attacking a regular archer proving Handy right on his point about not using the swords.

IBT: 4 more archer near the town.

110 BC: Well I send off the Galley and a barbarian galley is nearby. Great. The pike and MDI step off the boat so they won't sink. Err.. make that 2 galleys.

IBT: The second galley sinks our galley.

90 BC: So the MDI turns to the Pike and says "I hope you are up for a long walk". In 13 turns they will be at our choke city. Instead I switch Madrid to a second galley.
I just realized I didn't revolt. Sorry guys, this is becoming a weed turn. I revolt right away.
Well Barcelona will lose a pop in 2 turns if I hire the 2 entertainers it needs, so I am going to let it riot this turn and fix next turn.
I am upgrading our spears to pikes where I can.

IBT: Now that I settled Handy's towns, the archers want to go around us

70 BC: I attack two archers going around and nearly lose another sword as we take the first 3 hits, but then he takes 3 and dies.

IBT: We are now a Monarchy. We really need to irrigate some grasslands so we can acually grow. We have way too many mines.

50 BC: Adjust our cities.

IBT: More archers move up.

30 BC: Another sword loses to a stinking archer. The odds of winning must be much less than I thought or I am getting a bad string of luck. Handy had the right idea. Sory for not following it. the biggest problem is now the archers will all go around the town. Send out the galley and fortify.

IBT:Barb Galley attacks and loses. Seville is building desperately needed workers.

10 BC: Decide it is worth attacking archers with swords on flat. The archers are all just going around the city BTW.

IBT: More archers

10 AD: The units are back on the boat which moves 3 and fortifies. I attack on flat

IBT: No new archers this turn.

30 AD: Another archer down.

IBT: Asturias riots as I moved the defender out and then forgot to check afterward. No boats come for us. We get Montheism and Engineering. Knights may be up soon.

50 AD: Switch Madrid to a MDI so it can use the tree chop. Drop off the Pike and MDI on the Persian Iron. There is a settler next to it.
Attack last archers with swords. I really don't want them in our land wandering around.

Notes:
I MMed Seville for food and am producing workers. We need to build the road to the choke city and improve our lands. We need more irrigation to grow faster. We need to reach the Luxes we don't have.

Topic to discuss: Where do you want to put the forbidden palace? We should start it right away after we decide where.

We get a harbor in Murcia next turn. I think we should build barracks and even rush so we can upgrade front line spears to pikes and swords to MDIs now.

We need settlers too on top of everything else.

Here is the save file

:dubious:

Who is up?

:dubious:

I got it. I hope to finish the 3 I am up in tonight. This is #2 after overlords and then SGOTM.

Sling3 – 50AD – Isabella’s Redemption?

50AD Preturn – Well, it’s good to see Xerxes behind in tech. Like the harbor coming in Murcia and will rush a rax after 1 turn. It looks like a possible offensive coming up. Persia is still ironless. It’s nearly go time. The worker farm is nice to see. Looks like Ottomans and Aztecs are doing well and Persia is better than they are. We need to knock out Persia prior to them getting across the sea. I swap the MDI builds to horses. Quicker to build and quicker to our far flung front. They upgrade nice too.

IT – Some archers moving up to Murcia. Seville-Worker>Wkr, Murcia-Harbor>Rax, Pamplona-Temple>FP which is debatable. We’ll probably get a better one in Persepolis. IT will run up 18 shields during my turns and can certainly be switched. Ghalamen is settled near the iron right next to us. The nerve.

[1] 70AD – It is destroyed by the MDI Greebley kindly left for me there and 9g and a worker are collected. He can build a fortress for us. Madrid is swapped to Pike as the Pike residing there jumps on the galley. MM Madrid for no waste and doen’t hurt the other builds.

IT – 3 archers land at Murcias doorstep. Santiago-Rax>Horse

[2] 90AD – The rax costs 152g in Murcia. Will be upgrading next turn. Slave starts a 32 turn fortress on the iron. I drop off a pike so the archers can’t get to the SE hill. MDI that killed Ghulaman gets back to pike. Have some workers heading to road to the silks. It will be expanding soon. It will save 8gpt.

IT – Archers play cat and mouse trying to shift to other side of Murcia to get around. Madrid-Pike>Market, Barcelona-Horse>Horse, Seville-Worker>Worker, Murcia-Rax>Temple to battle Ergli culture.

[3] 110AD – For some reason, resources are not showing in Murcia. No upgrade possible. We have a clear coast to Madrid? WTF! Well, I’ll play on. I have another pike coming up to form a blockade. Madrid is swapped to settler. I think if we get some more irrigation on the grass we can get a 4 turner going.

IT – 4 archers die to our fearless spears and sword. Vitoria-Worker>Wkr. Asturias rioted.

[4] 130AD – Resources still not on Murcias city screen. Odd. Kill an archer with E sword. Put MP is Asturias. Begin road to silk. Irrigate around Madrid for settler farm. Move a pike towards galley to go help with defense. I think a worker should go too. Next trip.

IT – 3 attacks and no leaders. Toledo rioted wen it hit 6. Give it a scientist just to feel good about doing some research.

[5] 150AD – There is now a Pike in Murcia. Moving pike and worker to galley.

IT – The PIKE gets it’s butt kicked 4-1. Unbelievable! The spears have no trouble.

[6] 170AD – Load boat for iron mountain. Move another Pike into Murcia.

IT – they are trying to sneak around again. A Persian galley shows up in the NE. Asturias-Walls>Rax, Madrid-Settler> Pike

[7] 190AD – Break up a barb camp for 25g. Drop off the pike and worker on iron mountain. Rush the horse in Barcelona for 0g and swap Madrid to pike in 5. this is in anticipation of the Persian landing. I smell slaves.

IT – Archers are switching to west side of Murcia again. Galley continues south.

[8] 210AD – Move troops around.

IT – They archers drop into the Mucia forest. Galley continues. Build an aqueduct in Toledo, set to horse, Toledo builds a horse, set to duct.

[9] 230AD – Kill 3 of the archers with the swords and archer and then lose a horse to an archer. There is only 1 archer left in that crew. I’m roading on a bg in Madrid to get +5food. I think it will work out to 4 turn.

IT – No attacks just shuffling.

[10] 250AD – Kill an archer with the elite sword. No luck. Cover with MDI. It looks like the archers are heading towards our 2 pikes. I might be inclined to send some more troops there. The fortress is done in a few turns and that will help.

For some reason, resources are not showing in Murcia. No upgrade possible. We have a clear coast to Madrid?

I think the problem lies in the fact there is sea between Madrid & Murcia. Do you have to have a clear line of sight over coast tiles between the two for a trade network? If there is sea in between, we'll need astronomy IIRC. We'll have to use roads between the two until astronomy.


I might be inclined to send some more troops there. The fortress is done in a few turns and that will help.

Would a couple of cheap archers for defensive bombard help up there? We really don't want Persia to get that iron.

Greebley
Barbslinger
T_McC <- UP ????
Cuivienen
Handy
Yom - laptop problems :(

Do we have a harbor in our core yet?

I can't remember if we do.

We shouldn't need astronomy as there is coast all the way around and no enemy towns between.

[Edit: Ya two archers would be good or even a cat.

Do we have a harbor in our core yet?

I can't remember if we do.

We shouldn't need astronomy as there is coast all the way around and no enemy towns between.

[Edit: Ya two archers would be good or even a cat.

There is no harbor in Madrid in the 50ad screen shot posted above. Maybe that's the problem.

That must be what it is. I have 3 workers steadily making progress so Murcia should be hooked up in 6-8 turns. On the iron hill, I think 4 pikes would be better until the fortress is built. I lost 2 pikes to archers in Murcia. If they get iron it will cause some irritation. I'm sure we will pillage it but we need to hold it. Persia is the biggest, IIRC, and will be able to pop out quite a few immortals if given 3-5 turns with iron. This could devastate Murcia and put our country at risk. I think I would rather err to the side of caution and make double-dog sure the iron stays in our control.

We may also be able to do some pillaging with pikes if all they have is archers.

I lost 2 pikes to archers in Murcia.

That is a truly terrible RNG fluke. Pikes versus archers on a walled town on a city. What bad luck. :(

Persia is the biggest, IIRC, and will be able to pop out quite a few immortals if given 3-5 turns with iron. This could devastate Murcia and put our country at risk. I think I would rather err to the side of caution and make double-dog sure the iron stays in our control.

Roger that. Iron in the hands of Persia would make matters a lot more difficult for us. With archers soming to Murcia, we have a good chance @ an ealy Pike army that can tour & pillage the other continent. Pike army over there pillaging soon would really put us in the drivers seat in this game.

And I got this one too.

Hate to delurk like this, but I've been through 3 of these Spanish AW's and I'm still waiting for my Conquistador army.:p Is it just me, or have you guys not gotten an single leader yet?:( If you do get one, are you going to go for a standard sword army, or a Conq army for all those pillaging turns?

I played a Spanish AWM and had 3 pillaging forces Conquistador armies. They are well worth it, though tricky to keep alive as if they stop on flat they get killed (actually, I kept them on mountains) by Cavalry.

What is the total movement of a fully loaded Conq army Greebly? 9? Just seems to be extremely powerful of a unit, especially if you can throw some defenders around for it to hide behind during it's pillaging.

Is it just me, or have you guys not gotten an single leader yet?:( If you do get one, are you going to go for a standard sword army, or a Conq army for all those pillaging turns? I would think it would be a Pike army for pillaging the Persians. Conqs are a ways off yet but they will be perfect for all the land on the other continent. Hopefully we will have 3 conq armies to tear the AI a new one.

Yep they can pillage 9 squares. They took some finesse to use, I lost two so probably made 5 the whole game. One thing that was tricky is that they are great at catching workers and killing them - basically the AI simply runs for cover when units get too close and does not expect a unit to move 9 squares - the problem is that capturing a worker takes up 3 moves. So my first loss was when I saw a tempting worker to capture, but then could not make it back to the mountains. The other one I lost trying to cross an unexplored area, I gambled that I would find a mountain (or hill) and lost.

How powerful they are depends a lot on the map size. I feel the AI is much better at repairing damage and replacing in workers which limits their power too. Hopefully we will see them in action.

I think the most important thing is to grab the GLib. That gets you within a single tech which means you get them earlier.

In general I did not encumber them with other units. That lessens their ability to move. Since they jump from mountain top to mountain top, they sometimes have to go 7 or more squares to get to the next mountain. Better is to just have a Pike army that can survive in the flatlands for that.

Sling3 - It seems like only a month ago ...

250 AD (0)
We have the G.Lib, so no need to research. A lone crackpot is thinking about armored horses or something. On this turn I want to get the 4-turn settler factory established, and get a Palace pre-build going in Barcelona. I don't know what that will turn out to be, but there are 4 Wonders in this part of the tree, and only three cities have started one. It'll be something good.

We're a little shield-poor at Madrid, but I guess we'll pop Settlers off from time-to-time, so that's ok. We can also use one of the hills if necessary.

Barcelona need an Aqueduct, Harbor, and another MP unit, then it can start pre-building. Looks like a short-rush candidate. Doing so presently will kill our treasury, so I'll wait.

Seville needs worker attention, and may need some of the improved tiles to be re-worked. The worker presently queued is fine, but then we'll get a forest chop so maybe a Settler.

Toledo swaps to Temple, the forest chop should bring it in quickly. And then the 2nd MP can be sent to Barcelona.

Have to check Santiago relative to Madrid, may need to spew out a worker here. Murcia is hanging in there. Need a complementary Harbor somewhere. Valencia may go Pike --> Temple. These things are cheap and should help us avoid the lux tax.

Swap Pamplona to Courthouse before the FP, this order will be quicker.

Vitoria swaps tiles and to a Temple. I think this city will build nothing but workers soon, but we need a mined hill first.

Santander swaps to Temple. It needs to be bigger before it can realistically produce troops. Asturias stays on Barracks, we will have to garrison with enough bodies to keep it happy.

So we make +18 gpt.

Slide an Archer out of Murcia, just so the Persian Archer does the right thing.

I need more workers, so swap Santiago to a worker.

I don't anticipate going on the offensive this turn, so we may be a little light in the military builds.

IT - Win 4 and lose a Pike to a reg. Archer at Murcia. This is almost unfathomable. Persians land outside Zaragoza. [4-1]

260 AD (1)
Found Jaen where the settler stood, starts on a worker.

Where did we get all these reg. Horses?

Reg. Horse retreats from reg. Archer, but city is secure. Short-rush Aqueduct in Barcelona via Cathedral.

IT - Win 2, lose Elite Spear at Murcia. This is starting to get really irritating. Also win one on defense at the Iron Hill. [7-2]

270 AD (2)
Kill 2 more Archers, and the coast is clear at Murcia. We'll have roads down in 3 turns.

Excellent, Madrid is 10 spt at size 7. That'll perk up our military. Our vet MDI barely kills 2/3 Archer on our Iron. Net result of this is to delay the Aqudeuct at Barcelona by a turn. :mad: [10-2]

IT - Zulu get the cold shoulder.

280 AD (3)
Bonk a Persian Archer. Toledo completes a Temple, and already has an Aqueduct, so our Scientist starts plowing instead.

IT - Persians want to build a city next to the Iron again. Lose our southern-most horse to a Barb after killing 3. [11-3]

290 AD (4)
Score the slaves and add them to the Stack. Barcelona completes Aqueduct, moves on to Harbor (due in 3, no rushing necessary). [12-3]

F7-check: Only 3 cities are building wonders.

IT - Silks come online, that should save us some good money. Persians prance about, attacking nothing.

300 AD (5)
The fortress completes next turn. On this turn, we have to face up to 4 Archer attacks. Looks like I need to find another Pike to throw on the pile.

Murcia is connected to the empire.

We're fine at 10% lux, and make +30 gpt.

IT - Invention falls out of the G. Lib. Persians seem afraid to attack.

310 AD (6)
At Murcia, MDI wins vs. Spear, Elite Sword wins vs. Archer, 3/4 Sword wins vs. Archer, then try something silly. Elite Spear vs. Archer. Win, but no leader. [16-3]

Ferry two slaves back to our core from the fortress, set up to whack down the forest next to Murcia.

320 AD (7)
No attacks at Murcia. One win at the Fortress. [17-3]

Start to advance on the next city spot. Barcelona begins a Palace pre-build. Due in 24 turns. Sun Tzu's completed on the IT, only two cities are building Wonders.

IT - Persians advance, Dutch complete Leo's. The cascade should be dead, and we'll be a lock for something.

330 AD (8)
After snafu, actually ferry remaining two workers from fortess. We are starting to push workers south, as we have way too much marsh to be considered healthy.

Rush Court in Pamplona, then on to the FP. Won't spend any more money on my turns.

340 AD (9)
Forest cleared around Murcia, now the Persians have to drop onto flat ground if they want to by-pass the city.

Seville completes a settler, but the game is not cooperating at all as every forest tile I clear is regular grass. There is another chop queued, so the next settler will complete in 4, but after that we need a little love.

IT - Nothing. The Persians are attempting to side-step Murcia, and have founded a city on our side of the bay, north of Seville. Nothing important, we'll burn it at our leisure.

350 AD (10)
At Murcia: Vet MDI fails miserably, then vet Sword kills Spear. Vet Horse wins, Elite Sword wins, reg. Horse wins and promotes. Three more reg. Archers to throw into the grinder next turn. [21-4]

Final Notes:
Now for the Highly Detailed Wra .. :nono: wait, that's gimmick infringement. :blush:

Uhh, how about the Remarkably Retentive Ramblings(tm)?

Madrid is building a Settler. Do Not Allow Madrid to go below size 7! We need the extra unit support at that size, and the city can make 10 spt. The current settler will complete the turn after the city grows to size 9, then Madrid can build more units.

Barcelona has 3 MP. Do not move any of them out. After the mine completes, we should merge a worker into Barcelona as soon as we get a new Wonder tech, or our Palace jumps up in cost from 400 shields. The city needs all 3 MP to be happy at size 8, where it should make 15 spt. We are an absolute lock to build some wonder there, barring an SGL. We already have a 39 shield head start, and it is unlikely any enemy city can make 15 spt outside of a GA. [Actually, it could do this at size 7 and +0 food, once the hill is mined. The 8th guy can poach a 2-shield tile from Madrid if we need for speed. We'd have to raise the lux tax for a 9th citizen (or acquire another lux.)]

After Vitoria completes a Temple, it can produce nothing but workers. If we can mine a hill there, the MM should be easy.

I have a stack (including a settler) standing where I think the next city should go. There are 4 workers 1 tile north that should drop down and clear the march before roading the jungle tile they stand on. I goofed and already set back the settlement date by roading a jungle tile.

Picture in next post with some possible city locations.

Resist the temptation to move our northern workers out of our core. We do need a force in the south to clear marsh and connect cities, but the bulk of our work force should be working from the core-out. Zaragoza, Santiago, and Valencia all need attention. :love:

DM of the southeast.

The stack is standing on the high-maintenance tile of this set, a marsh that needs to be cleared. Upon founding that city will have a 3-food tile to work with, so can produce workers to dig itself out. All the other dots can be settled with no prior worker action. We miss one of the whales, but the nice symmetry of the map is appealing. :) And there is no first-ring overlap.

We have 2 settlers active, and 2 in production. I think it will be easy to find MP for all of these guys, there are 3 units with the 1st settler (barbs in the vicinity) and two pikes can walk the 2nd settler out of the core. In the next ten turns, we may be able to build 3 settlers in addition to the 2 queued up, if we can get a freakin' BG at Seville. :gripe:

Sling3 - It seems like only a month ago ... :lol:

Nice job T

Now, quit being a slacker and check in @ HNDY04 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=90672). :p

Cuivienen,
It looks like you are up next. I would continue to work on filling in the southern lands with towns. Once we have the towns in place we can consider advancing on Persia. For the farthest towns I would try to get two units to defend them when you can. From past experience, one defender is not always enough. Since we probably won't have enough troops (holding the choke for example is more important), I would prioritize the ones on the coast that we can't get to quickly, but a boat could.

Cuivienen,

If you can't play tonight [Thursday] post back & I'll swap with you. I can play Thursday but not Friday night.

In one of Cuinvienen's games she mentions that she will be "back on track after this weekend". If you don't hear from her, I would go ahead with the swap as I don't think she will be able to play tonight.

Many apologies if I am wrong Cuivienen, and you come on looking to play this...

Nope, it's fine. Actually, that was in reference to last weekend, but I underestimated the volume of work we could receive in the last week that really counts of school. (Still have a week and two days left, but, after tomorrow, all but one test and all projects will be over.)

Okay. I got the 350AD save and will play tonight.

MIiserable news for Persia

Sling3 350 Ad pre Turn
Notice I opened the 350 BC file.
Go back to get 350AD, that’s better.
Don’t let Madrid go below size 7 - check.
Need mine in Vitoria for 5 turn workers

IBT
Vikes want to talk – no thanks
Archers ignore our fortress stack on the Iron to move towards the choke
Jaen – worker – worker
Vitoria – Temple – worker
Asturias – barracks – horse
We are the 4th happiest in the world, Persia is 7th.

Turn 1 360
Murcia:
E sword cuts archer ,
Archer skewers archer
Horse spears archer
Upgrade 2 pikes @ Murcia & 1 sword. You know, we out to just build a city on the Iron, throw up some walls and let them come @ our pikes. We’ll need to do this if Persia’s borders expand to include the Iron. If we are in their borders, we can’t heal.

IBT
Toledo – horse – pike
Forest chops reveal 2 more grass tiles. :(
Persia is sending an archer our way from the city they settled to the north

Turn 2 370
Since the wetland clear would take 4 turns, I moved the settler on that tile to the S near the river, and another settler will arrive on the march when the chop ends.
Murcia – kill archer, lose veteran MI to regular unfortified archer. :mad:

IBT – Madrid – settler – horse
Seville – settler – settler

Turn 3 380
Our settlers are outpacing our pike production a little.
Swap tiles between Toledo & Seville to get 4 turn settlers in Seville, 5 turn (soon to be 4 turn pikes in Seville)
Kill 2 archers @ Murcia. An 8-pack shows up next turn.

Turn 4 390
Kill archer @ Seville
Settler arrives early on the Marsh. 2 turns yet to go on the clear.
Found Logrono on the coast river tile. Nine Barb horsemen down here.
I wish the AI would hurry up on Chivalry.

IBT
Logrono pike killed by barb horsemen. :mad:
Zaragoza – pike – pike

Turn 5 400
3 elite wins @ Murcia – no leaders.
Spend out gold and leave Logrono so it will get sacked & disperse barbs.

IBT
Logrono gets sacked & we lose 6 gold.
Madrid – horse - horse
Santiago – pike – horse
Scamander – treb – treb

Turn 6 410
Kill 3 archer @ Murcia – there are 11 left.
Found Valladolid -> worker on the former march site.

IBT
Toledo – pike – worker
Valencia – horse – horse

Turn 7 420
Elite LB @ Murcia gives up a leader [dance]
Change a couple of builds to MI since we don’t have Chivalry yet.
Cash rush MI @ Seville

IBT
Seville – MI – settler
Vitoria – worker – worker (5 turn workers here now)

Turn 8 430
Kill some archers @ Murcia, but our elite horse dies to an unfortified archer :mad:
Pikes from Santander & Asturias head to hold hills around Murcia so the archers cannot get through.
We have a lot of undefended cities. :(
Found Palma -> worker
Cash rush Toledo MI

IBT
Murcia pikes win some battles
Madrid – MI – settler (due in 3 grow to 9 in 3)
Ottomans start Sistine

Turn 9 440
Kill some archers @ Murcia
MI arrive in Murcia in 5 turns to load the army

IBT
We learn Theology & Gunpowder
Dutch start Sistine
Kill archer @ Murcia
.

Turn 10 450
Found Cordoba -> worker

Notes:
Toledo needs more MP – or peel a settler off of there
SantiagoCould use mines and some MP
MurciaArcher stack is pretty thin now. Hold the hills behind Murcia with pikes so archers don’t slip past.
MPLots of cites are going to need some MP soon, or peel off a worker. Watch F1 really closely.
ZaragozaWith irrigation & mines can grow & put out some shields.
PamplonaNeeds a mine on the hill to speed the FP.
Santander mine the Iron
MadridDon’t go under size 7
MI for the army are on the road making their way to Murcia.
There is Saltpeter N of the Persian town of Istakhr. We have none in our borders.
Next army should load onto a galley and start to pillage the other continent. I’d take 4 galleys to be safe. That’s 7 pikes + the army. Three pike should survive the IBT landing and be able to fill the army. Any extra pikes just return home.
The MI army should roll Persia’s spears pretty easily.
The Persians never did attempt an attack on the pike fortress on their Iron. They just ignored it.
Barcelona is working on Sistine
We can irrigate one plains tile S of Barcelona, & then join a worker to work that tile. Since we only have 1 luxury, Sistine would help our big cities. Cheap cathedral cost for Spain. Bach would help all cities, but I don’t think we’ll get to Music theory in time.
Empty Army is in Murcia

450 ad. Red dots are next city sites.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SLING3_450ad1.JPG


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SLING3_450ad2.JPG

The map with all the cities looks really good :band:

We will soon fill up the rest of the space (Do we want to put cities to the north as well or let the AI Land and bork the settlers or cities for workers or gold?

At that point (especially if we have knights), lets star a major push vs persia.

I see that happening in about 10-15 turns.

How is our infrastructure? many Markets yet? We also may need to start considering Libs as we are getting closer to Edu (not quite yet, but soon).

Agreed we should just build a city on the Iron hill. We'll burn down the infringing Persian city to the West, and keep Ergili (or raze-and-replace) to get our 2nd lux.

Is Barcelona working any mined, regular grass? If so we could run some workers there to mine another hill and irrigate over the mined grass. Merge a worker for a net gain of 2 spt.

First thing the next ruler can do is some diplomatic espionage: Does anyone have Chivalry? If one civ does, should we wait for Knights to fill the Army? A three-Knight Army vs. Spears may be worth 3 wins/turn. An MDI army can only do 2, although it is less likely to die on an attack that way. Well, our leader luck has to change soon.

I think from Handy's picture that the only visible source of Saltpeter is on the northern tip of our continent, so we definitely want to settle that. The rest of the north can wait, most of those cities can only work 2 land tiles.

Oh, and look at mining the Hill at Seville. That might make the 4-turn settlers work out correctly.

Is Barcelona working any mined, regular grass? If so we could run some workers there to mine another hill and irrigate over the mined grass. Merge a worker for a net gain of 2 spt.

I think it may be. I'll have to check the save @ home to be sure. I should have though of your idea. :blush:

Well, our leader luck has to change soon.

Heck - it would be nice if our elites would quit losing to non fortified regular archers on flat lands. Sheesh! RNG has not been kind.

I think from Handy's picture that the only visible source of Saltpeter is on the northern tip of our continent, so we definitely want to settle that. The rest of the north can wait, most of those cities can only work 2 land tiles.

That is the only visible source. Persia may have some under the fog. But perhaps we should send the next batch of settlers to the north to settle that and start the tedious mountain roads to get there. That will take a while. I was hoping that Persian city would grow to size 2 so we could get a free city.

We are pretty thin on offensive units since we have been expanding so fast. If no AI have chivalry by the time the MI get to Murcia, I'd fill the army with MI and get busy.

Do we want to raze all of Persia for the slaves and resettle using settlers from Seville and Madrid? Razing is faster than taking, reinforcing and holding.

The primary advantage to keeping cities is that our core cities can grow in size. I tend to choose on a case by case basis. If there is a city in a decent location and small size and is not going to tie up large amounts of resources to defend, then I usually will keep. When Persia is close to dead then I keep everything.

Does Cuivienen know she is up?

Agreed that we need to send a settler up to claim the Salt. No hurry to connect it, we don't need it for our UU, and Pikes are a much better value than Muskets. Probably best to settle and garrison from the seas, I wouldn't count on defending it from our core, and I don't think it is at all wise to take our workers away from improving our core. We can connect the city via Harbor.

I haven't opened the save. How many settlers are active? And next leader should check to see how our culture compares to Persias. I think we want to capture the Spice city. We can use the reduction in lux tax to pay for Walls and Barracks there.

...
Agreed that we need to send a settler up to claim the Salt. No hurry to connect it, we don't need it for our UU, and Pikes are a much better value than Muskets. Probably best to settle and garrison from the seas, I wouldn't count on defending it from our core, and I don't think it is at all wise to take our workers away from improving our core. We can connect the city via Harbor.

Good idea to connect via harbor. :thumbsup:


I haven't opened the save. How many settlers are active? And next leader should check to see how our culture compares to Persias. I think we want to capture the Spice city. We can use the reduction in lux tax to pay for Walls and Barracks there.

Zero settlers active. Madrid & Seville are 2 turns away.
We have more culture than Persia they are impressed. :D

Since we're going at a leisurely pace ...

Had a look at the save, and I think there is a better spot to settle than the Iron hill near Persia. I'd consider the hill just south of that. It claims both Iron and Spices, although it would require us to have units both in the city and in the fortress. The reason I would consider this is because we'd have to get extremely lucky to capture the Persian Spice city intact. It's size 1, and I think X-Man keeps whipping Archers (or Spears) out of it every time it grows to size 2. It will auto-raze when we capture it.

Otherwise we are in tremendous shape. We can set up for a hard run at Astronomy (with a couple of Galleys for upgrade and pre-builds for Conquistadors) and use our GA to build Libraries, Markets, and Cathedrals in our core.

The only thing that can really set us back are Berzerks. :eek: I nominate the Vikings as the first target of our Conquistador Armies. We can't deny them the ability to build 'zerks, but we can make it very slow for them to build and try to bankrupt them to prevent upgrades.

Only problem now is getting another leader. :sad:

Greebley - On deck
Barbslinger
T_McC -
Cuivienen
Handy
Yom - At the helm

Looks pretty good so far. More leaders once nav/astronomy comes on will help.

Slinger -

Was Cuivienen swapped or skipped? Is she up or is Yom? Someone should claim the game, this one is pretty interesting and we're floundering to get turns done.

I might be able to get it tomorrow, but I'd prefer a swap so I can get it tuesday.

I'll try to get it tonight, but no promises.

Yom,
I have a game to play tonight so just go ahead and play today or tomorrow when you can. If you do not think you can/want to play either two nights then post that fact and we can swap.

Cuivienen,
Give a post when you can rejoin us and play. I assume that will be when your summer starts. :)

Slinger -

Was Cuivienen swapped or skipped? Is she up or is Yom? Someone should claim the game, this one is pretty interesting and we're floundering to get turns done.

Echo T_McC's comment. This one is starting to get interesting. Let's go. :goodjob:

Greebley - Up in this one too.
Barbslinger
T_McC -
Cuivienen - on skip until she returns.
Handy
Yom - Also skipped, making me a grumpy 'ol man.

What is happening with you two?

:( Sorry about that. I thought I had time to play yesterday, but I was busier than I thought. I can play right now if Greebley isn't playing yet.

Go ahead and play Yom. I am in SG Feast mode at the moment. This would be 3rd in my queue

Turn 0 - It's been a while since I've played this game (have I even had a turn yet?).
There are no attacks to be made without exposing units, but there is a stack of 2 spearman and an archer next to the Persian Iron hill. I'll just let that archer attack next turn.

IBT - Hmm...That stack was actually 2 archers and 1 spearman, but our Pikeman defeats both flawlessly and promotes to elite. The injured archers at the choke retreat and a vet. archer steps up to the Iron Hill.
Jaen:Worker->Worker
Asturias:Temple->Pikeman

Turn 1 - Trebuchets go 2 for 2 at Murcia and redline the one reg. archer their. I decide to take a chance and attack with the 4/5 Longbow (which will be exposed to one injured archer, but will be covered by a pike. Since Persia has no horses, it can only be attacked by that 2/3 Archer)
It wins flawlessly, but no GL.
Reg. Horse vs. Barb warrior Wins flawlessly and gets us 25 gold, revealing 3 Barb. galleys.

IBT - It looks like our protected Longbow drew some attention as the Persians advance their archers towards Murcia (even the vet archer next to the Iron) protected by a spearman.
Madrid:Settler->Horseman (hurry up and research Chivalry AIs!!!).
Sevile:Settler->Medieval Infantry
Vitoria:Worker->Worker

Turn 2 - Settlers head south to Handy's 2 Red dots.
On the diplo front, Persia and the Zulu seem the be the only AI in the AA.

IBT - The Persian Archer Party moves onto the hill across from Murcia.
Toledo:Pikeman->MDI to avoid wasting shields. Somehow it's happier now than on turn 0? Oh wait, it's the pikeman it just built serving as an MP
Valencia:Horseman->Horseman.

Turn 3 - The Persian attacking party consists of 2 reg. Archers, a Reg. Spearman and 2 Vet. Archer.
The Trebuchets redline the Spearman putting the Vet. Archer on top.
Vet MDI vs. Vet. archer on hill wins, -2 hp
Vet MDI vs. Vet. archer on hill wins flawlessly.
Argh! I am a dumbass. Only now do I realize the Longbow had a * next to it. Shouldn't have attacked with it last turn.
Vet MDI vs. reg. archer on hill wins, -2hp. Time to fish for leaders.
Elite Swordsman vs. reg. archer on hill wins flawlessly with no leader. I leave the redline spearman thanks to that damned hill taking 2 movement.

IBT - Iroquois request an audience - No way.
Persians advance 3 more archers and many more behind it. Looks like my turns will be mostly defensive.
Santiago:Pikeman->Pikeman
Murcia Choke:Horseman->Trebuchet, 2 is far from enough.
Logrono:Worker->Worker

Turn 4 - Trebuchets yellowline 2 archers.
Vet. MDI vs. reg. archer on hill wins, -1hp (need more promotions too!)
Elite Swordsman vs. 2/3 Archer on hill wins, -1 hp.
I leave the last archer and heal, bracing for the next attack.

IBT - Persians advance 4 archers and 1 spearman on the hill with more trailing behind.
Madrid:Horseman->Pikeman to defend our new cities.
Zargoza:MDI->Trebuchet.

Turn 5 - Bah, Trebuchets miss both shots this time (I guess it makes up for all the other hits.)
I decide I'm feeling lucky, so Vet. MDI vs. reg. spearman on hill....loses, and promotes...now 3/4 :mad:
Elite* Longbowman vs. 3/4 spearman wins, -1 hp.
Vet MDI vs. Vet Archer wins flawlessly.
3/4 MDI vs. reg archer wins and promotes, now 2/5.
4/5 Swordsman vs. reg. Archer. wins, now 2 hp.
One reg. Archer will still be able to attack next turn, hopefully we'll get a defensive leader out of it.
We will hold Murcia over the next few turns without a doubt, but our units are getting tired (injured), so we may need to use some horsemen.

IBT - We dispatch the archer, losing 1 hp.
Vitoria:Worker->Worker (After this worker, we should build a courthouse and barracks. It can become a good producer with all those hills.
Valladolid:Worker->worker

Turn 6 - Trebuchets go 2 for 2. Now a 3/4 and 2/3 archer on the hill, but the elite swordsman and MDI are too injured to fight.
Vet MDI vs. 3/4 archer on hill wins, -1 hp from the archer's free shot.
As I scan the AI's continent, I notice a pile of rubble next to an Aztec city and an Ottoman city called "Cattaraugus"(Iroquois IIRC). Could the AI be warring?
Hmm...when we talk to the Iroquois, there is no city list. So I guess they only have that one island city (whose borders peek out from the fog) now.

IBT - More archers swarm on Murcia, this time from the NW and without spear escorts.
Seville:MDI->MDI (doesn't waste shields, otherwise we need some trebuchets).
Oops, Valencia riots :smoke:. Sorry about that.
Asturias:Pikeman->Trebuchet.

Turn 7 - Only one reg. archer this time. Rather than bombard him and have him run away, let's see if we can get a defensive leader out of him.
Our horses find a Barb encampment in the fog and 4 Horseman fortified outside. Our reg. horseman takes out one, losing 1 hp. He'll probably die on the IBT unless the Bug with barbs not moving still exists. (BTW, I thought Barbs couldn't pop up in unexplored areas?)
What the?? The persians have the nerve to plant another city in our Northern lands. Greebley should probably take them both out on his next turns if we don't get Knights by then. If we do get knights, I'd push into the Persian core and just conquer all since their culture rating is half of ours.
I also notice wonders built and left to build in the victory screen. Is a wonder victory on? If so, it shouldn't matter, since there are a lot of wonders in the Modern Age. Still something to watch out for if it takes that long to conquer the other continent though.

IBT - The archer dies flawlessly to our Elite pike, but no leader.
Madrid:Pikeman->MDI (after the MDI, build a 30 shield unit and then the settler so that it will coincide with growth and not waste food.)
Palma:Worker->Worker
The Aztecs are building Knights Templar (come on and pop Chivalry!).
It looks like the Barb bug persists as they stay fortified.

Turn 8 - Again, only one archer, so I'll let him impale himself and get 2 shots at a leader next turn (There will be 4 reg. archers).
Our vet Horseman takes care of the camp, losing one hp. The reg. Horseman fortifies to get back health and will attack the Horseman stack next turn.
The Netherlands have Chivalry so we get knights next turn. Don't remember how much upgrades are but we should be able to upgrade most.
Switch Valencia and Toledo to Marketplaces so their builds won't finish next turn.

IBT - The dutch request Peace and want US to pay 40 gold. What are these AI smoking?
Somehow the archer takes 2 hp off our pikeman. A barb comes out of the fog in the south :mad: luckily I can defend the settler right next to it, but i'm tired of killing barb camps.
We learn Chivalry and switch our best producers to knights. Madrid is one shield short of 5 turn knights, so we may want to mine a tile if we're not going to build more settlers out of it.
The Aztecs are building Sistine Chapel (BTW is Barcelona really building Sistine's or is it a prebuild for Knight's templar?) Ottomans are building Knights Templar. Dutch are building Knights templar.

Turn 9 - We kill some more barb horsemen.
The Trebuchets go 2 for 2.
Vet MDI vs. reg archer on hill wins, -1 hp and promotes.
Elite MDI vs. reg archer on hill wins flawlessly, no leader.
Elite Sword vs. 2/3 archer on hill wins flawlessly but still no leader.
Upgrades cost 120 gold like I thought, so we can barely upgrade 4, enough for the Army and an extra.
Send the workers around Pamplona to improve the hill to speed construction of the FP.

IBT - The archer retreats. The last barb horse finally decides to attack and takes out our 2/3 horseman that was going to take out the camp in the South (what timing!).
Santiago:Pikeman->Aqueduct
Vitoria:Worker->Courthouse (It can be a producer with a little improvement of its tiles and growth.
Cordoba:Worker->Worker

Turn 10 - I leave most of the units' movements for Greebley since it could affect his decisions. We are really due for another leader, so I would let the Vet archer attack Murcia just in case we get a defensive leader. The army is still empty and can be filled with 3 Knights and start our Offensive, starting with getting some spices for our unhappy citizens. Other than Vitoria, the north is pretty much fully improved so I would move workers southward and continue to build nothing but workers out of Jungle cities. Remember, marsh only takes 16 turns to clear, so clear those tiles first.

Not sure of the kill ratio but probably around 30 - 1 (or 30 - 2 if you count the barb).
Why is it that I'm always the one who gets defensive turns :rolleyes:?

Ok, I got it. I should be able to get to it tomorrow (and Handy4 tonight).

Wonder victory probably is on. I know I turned it on at one point for my single games. I turned it on to allow the AI to "win" if they manage to get SDI.

I don't see it mattering in a AW unless we go for a passive 20k victory. :D

Yes, we really do want to build Sistines. Double strength, half-price Cathedrals are a good thing.

Since we have Theology already, Education is just around the corner. I think we need to do a little infrastructure push to prepare for the G. Lib expiring. The Persians have neither Iron nor Horses, so they'll be Archers and Spears for a long time. No need to be in a hurry with attacking them. They'll be just as weak 50 turns from now. We do need their Spices, but I doubt it is in our best interest to expend a lot of energy to capture a bunch of 1/1 cities.

Speaking of Sistines, we can probably irrigate a tile, mine a Hill and merge two workers into our wonder city to speed the build. I think it can pull 20 spt at size 9, and stay happy.

Is the settler factory still running? It should be at an easy 4 turns per by now. The land to the SW of the FP is crappy now, but should be productive for us sooner rather than later.

Also remember if the Great Library Expires then start research on Astronomy immediately!

This is our UU and pillaging power unit.

None of this "Mil Trad first" stuff. That is for the lesser civs. :D

Er...oops. I forgot to keep the Settler factory running. We only have about 3 sites left and we should probably capture and not raze Persian lands though. We need to start building Cathedrals soon, as our cities are having trouble staying happy.

Thanks for playing Yom. Things are looking good.

This will definitely be tomorrow.

I will have the settler factory blatt out a few more settlers before it expires. I may go for workers too. We may have the odd bit o jungle in our lands that needs clearing.

(I will also read Yom's report in more detail; I just skimmed it).

Preturn: Switch Seville to a settler so we can finish up settling. A few minor changes.
Bombard and archer but do not attack as it would leave me vulnerable

IBT: Archers move up. A Barb warrior attacks a pike and loses.
Jaen: Worker->Worker
Seville: Settler->Settler

560 AD: Settle Teruel to the South.
Make a knight army that attacks Ergil

IBT: No attacks. Heroic Epic Message.
Austurias: Trebuchet->Trebuchet

570 AD: Attack and Auto-raze Erigili with the army.
Build Almeria in the S.
Kill a barb horse. No known Barbs.

IBT: Archer is heading S from cities N of us.
Toledo: Knight->Market
Zargoza: Trebuchet->Trebuchet

580 AD: Kill some more units near the border. Army heals.

IBT: Another settler trying for the Iron is spotted. A boat is heading S to pester our sothern cities.
Madrid: Knight->Market
Logrono: Worker->Temple

590 AD: Persia has Saltpeter near Tyre. That will make Tyre a target take out settler

IBT: Lose the two workers from the settler that were trying to flee home
Seville: Settler->Settler
Valencia: Knight->Market

600 AD: Settle Leon in the North
Kill the archer that was north of our core.

Tyre captured by army.

Our leader farming finally works and we get a leader.

IBT:
Santander: Courthouse->Market
Asturias: Trebuchet->Trebuchet
Valladolid: Worker->Worker

610 AD: Attack Istakhr N of our core with knights.

IBT: lots of archers...

620 AD: Auto-raze Istakhr. Kill some archers

IBT: Gain Chemistry from GLib.
Archers attack army fortified in town doing a few HP.

630 AD: A pike does some pillaging. Advance some units.

IBT: Two more archers attack the Knight army.
Dutch complete knights Templar.

640 AD: Build Zamora

IBT: Aztecs cascade to Sistine

650 AD: Lose an elite* sword attacking an archer

Notes:
There are two knights N of our core to destroy the persian city. There is a settler who was heading for the hill square next to the Saltpeter (i.e not next to the Volcano). There are workers to connect the Saltpeter.

Madrid is growing and will need another MP I suspect. My thought was to move then newly created Pike in Zargoza to Barcelona, and the Pike in Barcelona to Madrid.

I couldn't decide between workers or temples in the southern towns. We need workers, but keepin our culture high will make life much easier in terms of taking towns.

Persia is pretty backward in terms of tech. They don't have Currency or Polytheism. I am not suprised with a major war and no contacts.

I think the two armies can take out persian towns with support from the other units. I would concentrate a lot on infrastructure and attack Persia in a more leisurely fashion, rather than all out war. Once we have markets and libraries in the core, then we can switch to knights and :hammer: full time.

Two armies is probably sufficient to destroy backward Persia.
I suggest turning leaders into armies and saving them for Conquistadors. We are getting close enough. And remember not to put 3 conquistadors in (I suspect we all know that one by now! :D )

Here is a picture of the Persian front with a few notes and ideas:

:goodjob: Good turns, Greebley. We'll be in control of our starting continent within the next two player turns, I think.

Some questions we may want to consider:


Do we want to load the 3rd knight into the 2nd Army or be able to transport it to the other continent?

Should we take out Persia quickly using blitzkrieg tactics with our Armies and
knights, or slowly and minimize loses?

Once we control our starting continent, do we wait for Cavs, or do we try to strike early and get a beachhead founded quickly?

Quote, "Persia: soft and crunchy - A tasty snack." :rotfl:
Nice job Greebley!

Looks like a cruise on infra and lazily take out persia preparing a few conquistador armies for mass pillaging. Sure is nice that on the 3rd try at the Spanish we get a near perfect setup. A large continent to pillage and only one AI on large home continent that we have successfully kept at bay denying iron. Can't wait to try those ConQ armies.
Got it and will play possibly tonight but most likely tomorrow.

Looked at the save:

I think we need to build Cathedrals before Markets in our larger cities. In 5 turns those Cathedrals will be worth 6 content faces apiece. Markets improve our income, but don't allow us to lower the lux tax. The cash net looks about equal, but Cathedrals ensure everyone works, meaning we should be able to get Markets and Cathedrals faster by building Cathedrals first.

I think we don't want to hook up any of the Saltpeter. We don't need Muskets against the Persians, and Pikes are a much better value for MP.

I got bored and shadowed this game ahead of this point. You may be alarmed when you see how long it will take us to research Astronomy. :eek: Plenty of time to pop another leader. Agreed that leaders should be saved for Conq armies.

Looks like a couple of more good spots in the SW of the FP region, including a couple that don't even require Marsh to be cleared to settle. No reason not to keep the 4-turn settler farm working.

I don't see much of a drawback to putting the 3rd Knight in the army. I figure we'll soften the beaches with a couple of Conq armies while we consolidate our own continent. Then we make the major offensive with Cavs. We'll only be three techs from Galleons once the G.Lib expires, so we shouldn't have that long a time-frame before we can move a 3-member army. Not entirely confident in this, though, so I probably wouldn't add the 3rd member unless we thought we really needed 2 armies against the Persians. And we don't.

We are significantly larger than the AI on the other continent. A strong round of pillaging and we may be able to run a Cav blitz for a pre-IA victory.

Ya, since we are religious the Cathedrals are cheap enough to do that. We are not yet guaranteed on sistine yet however.

As a side note: This one reason going ahead and then offering advice is dangerous. If you know we are going to get sistines then you may be using 5 turn foreknowledge to pick the better route which is a problem. In fact it would be better if we did wait 4 turns (once it is 1 turn away it is guaranteed) before switching any markets, because my gut feeling is you wouldn't suggest that unless we get sistines, giving us exactly that foreknowledge.

I was thinking 2 armies to guard the home continent might not be a bad idea so thus the 3rd unit. 2 armies on attack vs the persians should mean less losses and/or faster speed, so I would add the third and go for another leader.

I think we need Markets, Cathedrals, and Libraries. I think we are better off building those and trying to keep unit costs down for now. Let the armies do the killing with help of the units we do build.

Actually, it's not foreknowledge, it's math:

Including their Emperor discount, on your 8th turn the Aztecs cascaded from the 240-shield Knights Templar to the 480-shield Sistines. I don't think they can do 240 shields in 7 turns. :) If they are the only cascading competition we can only lose the wonder via an SGL.

Now watch that be wrong!

When did the other civs start Sistines anyway? The others didn't cascade because their sistine build was bigger.

It's going to be close. We have an 11-turn head start on the Ottos (~143 shields) and a 12-turn head start on the Dutch (~156 shields). If the cities in which they are building Sistine's cannot make 18 spt (which I think Barcelona does), it will require an SGL to beat us.

Working backwards: We'll complete Sistine's in 700 AD. The Ottos or Greeks have to complete it in 690 AD (26 or 25 turns from the start date). So that's (480/26 = 19 spt) for the Ottos, and 20 spt for the Greeks. That's not our of the question, especially if either is building in their capital. Should be close, I don't know if we can see the cities they are building in.

I played up to 700 AD, and I don't know what will happen. I took my own advice and by irrigating a regular grass and mining a hill was able to merge two workers into Barcelona and bump the city to 20 spt. I think I had already completed the Wonder by 650 AD.

As long as you aren't using foreknowledge I am happy. :)

One thing I don't quite get. If you mined a hill (which takes time) and got pop up to size 9, how does that reduce the time by 5 turns over a 10 turn period? You must have added more than 3 shields per turn?

I had intended to do as you suggested but it got lost in the shuffle somehow. I hope it doesn't cost us Sistine...

Sling3 – 650AD – Isabella’s Redemption?

650AD Preturn – Move a pike to Madrid to avoid them being upset per Greebley instruction. Now ‘m on my own. Yes boy’s I have had a few. There’s a new tequila in town and I may have afew more shots before this is over. I don’t get much time to drink but the weekend it is usually on. The wife is hellbent for dog fury. The dogs chewed up the bottom of BOTH couches today and she was miserable. Drinking ensued and here I am.

EDIT:It really isn't much drinking for me though. I'm continuing tonight with GOTM32 and a few more shots. This is written after finishing.

Sistines build is at max with no growth loss, I swap Toledo and Barcelona to cathedrals. They take less time and then it will take less time with everyone working to get a MRKT. The settler factory is a little whacked with 5food in the box. I’ll keep an eye on it.
WAR FRONT – Borazjan looks to be ours and there is one Persian archer in view, total. I look to take the armies to their core. Dcheck on cities and IT

IT – Zaragoza(core)-Pike>Lib, Jean(jungle)-Wkr>Wkr, Asturias(near front)-Bcket>pike. I’m thinking the slaves will improve this town to spt.

[1] 660 – There are now 3 reg archers talking crap about Borazjan. We destroy borazan and leave a couple units with 1hp. Just noticed the FP will also be completing in 4. Make worker moves to improve that. Jungle clearing and whatnot. Tyre and Salt is secure with an army, pike and leader spawning LB in town. I sent he other army to clear fog and ID targets once our boys can get to the front. Unfortunately we have no boys going to the front with the infra builds going on. They will have to do.

IT – Unfortunate, we lose two pikes and an MDI. The Persians lose a ship to barbs, I don’t think I have ever seen that. Plus we win barb war where I expect25g coming .
Madrid- Market-Cath, Almeria-Wkr>wkr.

[2] 670AD – Take 3 elite kills and then send the workers back into harms way to complete a military road to the front. I know it is leisurely but a road provides more leisure. We destroy Jinjan, the Persian city in our north, and look to barb camps and patrol. There is a barbcamp up noth for 25g. On the war front I want the capital. Prepping for that and consolidating troops where Greebley conquered.

IT – Seville- Settler- and I will work on this to get a settler in 4. Mucia, our Choketown gains an aqueduct and it’s perserverance pays off and can grow. It goes for a courthouse now.

[3] 680 – 2 elite kills and we are clear from attacks that can see. Armes adventuring t the Persian core and consoladation on the front line. Infrastructure building.

IT- Toledo- Cath> Mrkt, Wow, Valencia flames, I thought we were cool on all cities. Time to look at any city with 1 on growth and see what the build is and city status.

[4] 690AD – Only 1pop Leon grows next turn and It has a happy face to begin with. Merida plants near salt in the N and goes on spear in 20. Not nch up here. 11 barbs to the north, we’ll win that. 1 archer ready to take a mountain I gave up with trebuckets waitng on him. Ready, BTW, our FP and Sistines pops next turn. I feel so religious all of a sudden and say a prayer for our civ. But only to the fictional CIV gods.

IT – Lose one archer, and Sistines complets, set to cath. Mucia riots at 7pop. FP completes, set to cath.

[5] 700AD – We’re at +73gpt now. Nice, with 285g in the kitty. I take a couple chances on front line defense and get a win. We have one MDI coming to the front and I’m bringing back the workers that connected the frontlines, bad move on my part, to improve the FP location. Do a little tile swap between Seville and Madrid for 3-3 on Seville settler. We pick up 25g in the SE jungle from a barb camp. Settler in route with road in place for faster encampment. 1st army recon pulls into range of Persopolis.

IT – Not so good an IT. I lose an elite that was 2-5 after he wins one. I saw no other in range for him. Education comes in, dead GL, and a small town gets hit with disease.

[6] 710 - Proud to report that Persopolis falls, AKA, destroyed. Wait a minute, I think I’ll keep it for onr turn to turn all their troops around . then destroy it. BTW, Didn’t even need the 2nd knight army. Our big army is still 11/13. Our small army has a go at Antioch and goes to 3/8. Win some, lose some with the RNG. Numbers will play out, I’m tired of hearing about it. Play on. Rear lines are completely secured after the last 2 archers I let sneak thru are one down next to the iron fortification, The one I leave because the fort is a 99.5% winner. Those are good odds. MM Madrid to get the cath this turn and Valencias in 2. We’re at 386g+70gpt so I rush a court in Vitoria for 68g. 318 now. Knights in the north are still fortified for the 11 barb horses to take out. They both are 3/4. At 0-20 slider action we are looking at 15 turns to Astro. We can’t possibly keep this research pace up but I have found that maxing it early is better and then backing off. GET THOSE BEAKERS.

IT – The ottomans come calling and say if we give them education they will settle with us. Ave I got NEWS for them. Does he even know about out UU and the pillaging about to kick his a? Persians want to settle too. I asked for all is cities on the board. That should be a rule. If they give you all the cities, minus the capital, , the AW for them is obviously over. My opinion at this point.
Madrid-Cath>Lib, Vitoria-CT>Harbor in 5 to give Valencia some more breathing room.

[7] 720 AD – Just realized turns are out of sync or I f’ed up. Will play to 750AD. I pull a blunder and let a 2 archer pair sneak thru thinking I had the troops to defend as they snuck. I lost a MDI and an archer before a Murcia pike took out the last archer saving our spice town from plunder. Barbs are down 2 in the north and a new group popped in the south. 25g is won in the south from barbs. I abondon Persoplois. And head towards Pasargadae killing 3 workers before leaving town. Pampalona, our FP is now #3 in shield production at 10 and building a cath.

IT – Damn, a Persian archer just unloaded next to Meridia, our salt town, and will sack it next turn.
Tyre- Temple? Rax. I thought I had swapped it . Valencia-Cath> Knight. Palace gets a lawn.
Seville-Settler>Knight, Valencia-Cath> Knight. Both subject to market builds.

[8] 730AD – the archer held up? My pike is one step away. Get the 25g from the barbs and curse at Xerxes for landing that archer. Army is not as lucky in Pasargadae and beats two spears before retreating red lined. Ouch. Hope he makes it, 2nd army is 1 tile short of covering. Other crap looking at build times.

IT - I don’t know why after Meridia is burned to the ground but anther palace expansion pops.

[9] 740- We lost Meridia :sad: Not a biggy though. But I compounded it with a pike vet lose to that damn reg spear.. Astro in 12 at –66gpt and 121 in the kitty.

IT – Santiago-Aque> Cath. Aztecs,Vikings come calling for peace.

[10] 750 – Pedestian last turn. Armies healing. Infra builds have slight MM.

Sorry about Meridia. It was a crappy town anyhow and frankly I don’t know why we are spending time in the mountains with workers having much more important things to do.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/sling3-750ad.jpg

OK, I got it, but can't play until Sunday night.

Looks like the player who follows me gets a shot at the Conq army, if we can pop another leader by then.

Might as well start this discussion; When do we want to kick off our GA? If we think the game can end by Cavalry, then we should probably do so very soon after we acquire Conquistadors, as we would only have about 6 more techs we'd need. [Metallurgy, MilTrad, Physics, Magnetism, Banking, Navigation for Magellan's]

Oh, and one other point. I don't yet see a safe 5-tile passage to the other continent. We may be delayed by a few turns after Astronomy until we can find a safe route for an Army to travel.

It is possible there isn't a safe route. Persia is still very backward which may mean they do not have contact. If the GLighthouse was built and they do not have contact (it is possible they do have contact with one civ) then I am guessing there is no such route.

In that case we can get the army across safely without using the "chaining exploit". We simply use the movement of the units to jump from one boat to another (the exploit is when you use no movement by waking up and reloading into a boat on the same square - the reason this is considered an exploit is that a unit has essentially infinite movment. I am a bit dubious about calling this an exploit, but since it is on other people's lists I like to avoid it). The single boat switch gives us a range of twice the boats range + 1 or 11 squares with the Caravel 9 with a galley. Essentially you let the boat risk sinkage before you put the army on it.

The Great Lighthouse is held by the non-seafaring Ottomans (in Niagara Falls :lol: ), so we can't use that as a cheat for whether a safe passage exists. [A seafaring civ with the G.Lighthouse would have 5-move, safe at sea Galleys, whereas we will have 5-move, safe at sea Caravels.]

I'd just as soon not use the ship-chaining exploit if we could help it. We have an alternative, just research Navigation. Then we can be safe in ocean squares.

I'll start to play real soon ...

Sling3 - Calm Before the Storm

750 AD (0)
Start by firing the two unnecessary clowns and swapping an MP to Barcelona, then reducing the lux tax to 10%.

Then I change a lot of the builds and try to get our cities back on high growth. We are getting "over-mined" in a lot of places, I may have to irrigate over some tiles.

The Great Lighthouse is owned by the Ottomans, so no early indication of a safe 5-tile passage.

I'll smack the Persians around a little, but I don't foresee major operations this turn. Just an infra-turn and preparing for the overseas assault (both giving and receiving).

Astronomy in 15 at -4 gpt.

IT - Persia moves and doesn't attack.

760 AD (1)
Barcelona completes Cathedral, begins the Heroic Epic. We have better things to do with our leaders.

Kill 4 Persian archers, 3 Elite victories, no Leader.

770 AD (2)
Mad tile shuffling!

The Barbs in the North seem to be multiplying. There were 6, now 4 Horses in the hut. How many will be there next turn?

Kill 5 Persian Archers, no leaders. Then use Army to kill two Spears and burn Antioch(?). Two slaves as booty.

Madrid completes a Library, starts a Harbor. We need a good source of boats.

Astronomy due in 11 at -8 gpt.

780 AD (3)
Found Lugo in the SW.

Lose attacking a regular Persian Archer with a Regular MDI, and now Leon will be lost. The city was undefended at the start of my turns.

790 AD (4)
Lose Leon, but will retake it fairly soon. Need another couple of offensive units in the north.

Kill two Persian Archers, and will burn their current capital next turn in retaliation.

Astronomy in 9, but sliders have to be adjusted next turn. Also have to set another couple of cities on Libraries.

800 AD (5)
On the first elite attack of the round ...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Sling3_Inigo.JPG
ahhemmm ... "Mah name is In-igo Montoya. Jou keeled my fozzer. Prepare to die."

I think the Six-Fingered Man was Dutch, or maybe Ottoman ...

(Please ask if you don't understand that reference!)

Inigo forms an empty Army.

Win two more battles with Elites, no leaders.

Burn Bactra to the ground, netting 5 more Slaves. I am not keeping these cities because I really only want the slaves, and the only ones who can re-settle the area are Persia. Which means more slaves. :) Plus I don't want to defend these cities.

The Persian Capital is now on the West coast of our continent. :lol:

810 AD (6)
Miscount squares and lose a Treb. :mad:

Kill a few Archers, no leaders. We can now build the Pentagon.

820 AD (7)
Kill 4 archers without loss or leader.

Astronomy in 7 at -13 gpt. This fluctuates wildly when bouncing from 40% to 50%.

The Dutch have Metallurgy. Shaka lacks Mono and Engineering. Osman has Metallugry ... and no Salt. Hiawatha is OCC'ing. Ragnar lacks Mono and Invention (Berzerks!). I think the Vikings are a good target for our 2nd Conq army. Monte has Metallurgy. The X-Man lacks only Polytheism ... and all of the MA techs. :lol:

830 AD (8)
Win on leader fish, but no big bite. Complete a tile re-arrangement and merge two workers into Barcelona. Bumps city to 21 spt at size 9. After I get one more boat out of Madrid, we should be able to arrange both cities to do 4-turn Knights (or Conquistadors!).

Re-capture Leon. Build Alicante in the SW. I think there are 3 or 4 more city spots down there.

Astronomy now due in 5.

840 AD (9)
The Aztecs have Astronomy, ours is now due in 3.

Only get to kill 1 Persian unit.

IT - Bad turn, temporarily lose the 7 Persian slaves.

850 AD (10)
The Dutch have Astronomy, sliders adjusted so we have it next turn as well. There will be a lag between discovery and the Conq. Army.

Kill Persian archer and get the slaves back. Pillage the single road segment that has been at the root of my problems. Then kill another archer.

Re-MM for new projects.

Final Notes:
The Heroic Epic is due in 3, then Barcelona can do 4-turn Knights/Conqs. Trust the MM of Madrid, a mine will finish on turn 2 to bump the city to 18 spt. Also trust the irrigation over the mine at Zaragoza, the city needs to grow faster than once every 20 turns, and this allows the city to more comfortably use a mined hill and a forest for shields. The un-mined grass should also be irrigated.

We also need to run irrigation from between Zaragoza and Valladolid, NW all the way to Asturias. The cities can't use all of the hills in their radii without the irrigation.

The F11 and F8 keys use different measures of population. We are 1st on F8 and 4th on F11. Good news, it's F8 that counts.

There are 3 Galleys in Murcia Choke, and a 4th on the way. There are at least 2 islands west of there, one with the Iros and one with a Viking city. If we want to go east, it would probably be fastest to build fresh boats in Barcelona. The empty army is active in Asturias.

By the time I get the game back, we may be in mop-up mode.

Great turns, T_McC :D. I don't understand the reference (but google soon gave the answer), but our army must be named the Spanish Inquisition (which nobody expects, if you hadn't heard :D).

Sounds like a good turn. We are almost to astronomy and we get a leader. Let the pillaging begin.

As far as I know if you use the units movment you can jump from one boat to another and it is not an exploit. It is the same thing as a unit moving on land; jumping on a boat and then moving the boat.

That Vizzini, he can fuss.

... fuss ... fuss ...

I think he likes to scream at us.

Probably he means no harm.

He's really very short on charm.

Oh, you've a great gift for rhyme.

Yes, some of the time.

are there rocks ahead?

If there are, we'll all be dead.

No more rhymes now, I mean it.

Anybody want a peanut?

Who wants the game? I think Greebley is up, but he's going to Vermont to see his friend get married.

:confused:

I thought they could do that in Massachusetts now?

:confused:

Oh ... he said ga-ming. :blush:

Anyway, it's actually Handy's turn, but I couldn't waste that line. :)

Order?? :confused:

Greebley
Barbslinger
T_McC
Cuivienen
Handy
Yom

I'll get it and start tonight. Probably can finish my 10 tonight. Didn't see the above note posted way back that Cuivienen was on autoskip.

[Edit2: Handy is up, Correct? ]

If he plays in time, I might be able to slip in my turn; If it is wednesday (east coast time) then go ahead and skip me.

TMcC, the wedding is in Los Angeles.

[Edit3: Handy why does your list say I am up and then the mesage is that you have it? It is confusing me poor wee brain.

I'm back and able to play when my turn comes.

I'm back and able to play when my turn comes.

You are up - so go ahead and play. I didn't download the save & cannot play for several hours. I'll play after you.

Greebley Sorry for the confusing prior post. I went back & edited it. I hit post instead of preview - then got a call at work & forgot to go fix it.


Order?? :confused:

Greebley
Barbslinger
T_McC <-played last
Cuivienen <-UP formerly on autoskip due to school
Handy
Yom

Cuivienen,

A few important points. You probably know these, but I want to be sure:

1) Astronomy gets our Conquistador.
2) We want all armies to be Conquistador armies for the 9 square pillaging.
3) We want as many pillaging armies as we can get so I would turn all leaders into armies.
4) We want to pillage the other continent, so all conquistador armies are to cross the sea.
5) Caravels can only carry armies with 2 or less units. Do not put the third troop in or it will be stuck in our lands.

To recap our previous discussions, we are unsure if we can get across the ocean. I would send out some empty caravels to explore the seas and look for a way to cross in a single turn. You may want to start a prebuild in towns with harbors (I hope we have some now) for a few vet caravels to start right away (or update Galleys)

You probably won't get the army across on your turns unless you get lucky on finding a passage. When we do cross we need at least 2 Caravels; one for the army with 2 units. The other Caravel has the last conquistador, and probably 2 pikes or muskets for defense when you land. Ideal is to land on a mountain. The army finishes assembling when we land and heads off. The pikes or muskets can either get back on the boat or try to do some pillaging - they may not be attacked on mountains or hills.

There are 2 filled armies and our normal troops. They can either pillage or attack Persian cities as you choose. Keep their hp up though. Remember they can heal anywhere.

-------------------------------------
General notes to all:
1) Cavalry will attack Conquistador armies if they are on the flat, so ideally always end the turn with the Conquistador armies on a mountain.
2) Remember that capturing a worker costs 3 moves.

When I played a spanish AWM, I forgot point 2 and was tempted by a worker and ended up losing the army.

Conquistador armies are probably relatively safe before Cavalry and are probably ok fortified on a hill (and maybe even unfortified) when there are cavalry.

As a side comment in this same AWM, I landed my first cavalry army on a volcano. It went off and killed my army. :cry: So if you are "next to" you get warning; "on" is bad.

We already have 4 (or 5) Galleys waiting at the choke to be upgraded. They can be sent West by your 3rd turn. I figured it would be easier to go that direction, because I know there are islands between our continent and the other continent going that direction. If we want to send some ships East, it would probably be easiest to configure Barcelona to do 20 spt and bang out a few 2-turn Caravels when the Heroic Epic completes.

One other thing: Remember that Knights and Conquistadors both cost 70 shields, so it's easy to swap off of an existing Knight build.

Agree that our first Conq army likely won't make landfall on your turns, we will need a few turns to assemble 3 Conqs to begin with, and then the trip over ...

I actually wouldn't be too afraid of Cavs. We should get over just about in time to snip everybody's resources so we won't see too many. The initial landing will be the most dangerous part of the trip, after that so long as we end on high ground we should be OK.

We do have a 2-Knight Army on our continent. I can't see any good reason not to add a 3rd unit to it. We have a pillaging army, the Knight armies won't have to go overseas.

Last Thing: Important If we add a non-Conquistador to a Conquistador army, we'll lose the all terrain as roads ability. So we can't try to beef up the Army's defense by adding another type of unit.

We might want to research Navigation after Astronomy to get our Armies to the other Continent Quickly. Maybe we should start a palace prebuild in Barcelona for Magellan's, for style if for nothing else (it would be a golden age and would add to our already fast ships, which would be nice for reducing the exposure of our armies). We would have 6 move-caravels, right?

Cuivienen...are you out there?

Yeah, sorry. Got it.

Everything looks good. *Enter*

860 AD (1) --

Astronomy comes in, start on Metallurgy so we can get to Mil Trad and Cavalry. (20 turns @ 40%, +12 gpt)

Pamplona: Library --> Market
Santander: Cathedral --> Knight
Teruel: Temple --> Settler

Get a Palace Expansion. Our palace now has minarets.

Knight Army attacks Sardis, kills two Spears. Archer showing.

Elite MDI, smaller Knight Army kill four Persian Archers in the open.

870 AD (2) --

Iro want to talk. I think not.

Toledo: Pikeman --> Knight
Almeria: Worker --> Worker
Zamora: Temple --> Settler

Lesser Knight army attacks Sidon, kills two Spears and an Archer, autorazes.

Greater Knight Army autorazes Sardis.

880 AD (3) --

Barcelona: Heroic Epic --> Conquistador
Lugo: Worker --> Worker
Palma: Settler --> Settler

Mostly a healing turn.

890 AD (4) --

Madrid: Knight --> Conquistador
Seville: Library --> Knight
Valencia: Courthouse --> Knight
Logrono: Worker --> Worker

We take Hamadan with two MDI, a Pike and a Trebuchet. It begins Walls.

Rename Murcia Choke back to Murcia. Its significance as a chokepoint isn't important anymore.

900 AD (5) --

Vitoria: Cathedral --> Pike
Asturias: Aqueduct --> Courthouse

Large Knight Army heads for Samaria.

Overrun a barb camp in the hills to the north.

910 AD (6) --

A Dutch Caravel shows up near Almeria. Hopefully they have no nasty presents in their.

Cadiz founded.

We lose an elite MDI attacking an Archer on grassland...

We capture and autoraze Samaria.

920 AD (7) --

Barcelona: Conquistador --> Conquistador

But Barcelona has no Barracks *blush* Our Conquistador is regular... Change Barcelona to a Barracks so we have Conquistadors worthy of the name. Maybe I'll use this one to start our GA by attacking a Persian Archer.

930 AD (8) --

The Dutch want to talk. No thanks.

Madrid: VET Conquistador --> Conquistador
Alicante: Worker --> Worker

Take and keep Gordium, Zohak. Persia in now a 3CC with two of its cities stuck in the Tundra.

Switch Tyre from Walls to a Settler. At this point I've no fear of Persian counters.

940 AD (9) --

A barb shows up near Leon.

Seville: Knight --> Knight
Toledo: Knight --> Knight
Murcia: Courthouse --> Caravel

Get another Palace expansion. We now have trees in front of our Palace.

The Dutch begin Magellan's.

950 AD (10) --

The Zulu want to talk.
The Dutch land a Longbow and a Merc/Settler pair near Murcia.

Barcelona: Barracks --> Conquistador
Valencia: Knight --> Knight
Vitoria: Pike --> Knight
Santander: Knight --> Knight

The Aztecs complete Copernicus's in Tenochtitlan and the Dutch cascade to Magellan's.

We take and keep Pasargadae. Dariush Kabir is the new Persian capital.

Our Inigo! Amry has its first member!

An MDI fails to kill the Dutch Swiss Merc, but it does redline it. Our regular Conquistador attacks and kills it, and...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Spain_GA.png

Lots of the fun for the next two players.

I haven't MMed for the GA, and I'm out of time, but I did increase Science to 60% while staying in the black.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Persia_950.png

>>SAVE<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Sling3_AD950.sav)

Silly question:

Why don't I see more revealed tiles in the Minimap? Don't we have a humongous stack of Caravels in Murcia? Where did they go?

Next player gets to try to find the sea lane to the other continent. We have pillaging to do.

One could also turn science down a notch or two and upgrade the (almost assuredly still) stack of Galleys in Murcia, then go sailing.

Next leader should also closely examine the severely red-lined army I think I see next to the Persian capital.

We only have four Galleys in Murcia, and they can't safely cross the Ocean until we get Navigation. I assumed that we were going to load our Conq Army and two Conquistadors into two Caravels, send a whole fleet of Caravels out into the ocean, wait to see which ones sink, then, the next turn, sail the two Caravels out and move the Army and Conqs into two waiting Caravels and sail to the far shore. Can't do that, though, until we get more Caravels.

EDIT: And, as the Persian capital is defended by a lone Spear, I don't think the Army is in any danger.

Well .... there may be a path to the other continent that doesn't require either Navigation or Magnetism to cross.

Next leader could also consider rendering the whole thing moot by researching Navigation after Metallurgy completes.

I get the file not found message below when I click on the save. :(

Can you attach a save file please. :D

In the meantime I'll go play HNDY04 since I'm up in that one also.

Greebley - Skipped till 6/28 unless he reports otherwise. Out of town
Barbslinger - working on GOTM classic
T_McC -
Cuivienen - Just completed.
Handy - UP
Yom - C3C trouble again

I found this in uploads 7

New Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Sling3_AD950.SAV)

I found this in uploads 7

New Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Sling3_AD950.SAV)

Thanks. I GOT IT :D

Sorry about that :blush:

Sorry about that :blush:

May be a server or ISP thing. I've lost my ISP connection 4 times in the last 10 minutes. No big deal. :D

Bob the Builder

Reader's Digest version:
We build a bunch of markets and libraries.
Lose 1 corrupt city.
Aztecs found a city - no big deal.
Kill Persia off.
Find a safe passage to the other continent.
Get Military Tradition, begin researching the Physics to Magnetism (Galleons) route.
Pentagon is due in 3 turns, so a four-cav army is just around the corner.
No leaders for me, not many battles.
Should be in late stages of mop up if I see this game gain. :thumbsup:

950 ad pre turn
Plan
Researching Navigation after Metallurgy completes.
Change Barcelona to knight since we only need 1 more Conquistador to fill the army.
Switch Madrid to Pentagon due in 13. Leaders can all go to army builds.
Madrid has 26 food, so we can mine there & get to 30 spt.
2spt 50% corrupt city of Lugo switched to courthouse.
1spt city of Gordium goes to worker.
Toledo has 25 food, we can mine it.
Switch 4spt from settler to granary after which it can pop settlers.
Murcia will rock with some mined hills. :goodjob:
Jaen to courthouse
1 spt Hamadan to worker
1spt Zohak to worker
Valladolid to courthouse
Palma from settler to granary
Cordoba to court
Teruel to worker
Leon court
Santander to aqueduct
Hope all that’s okay
Conquistador army scoots over & kills Dutch longbow guarding a settler & we get 2 more slaves that head to the mines of Murcia.
Knight army kills Persian Spear.
Bomb & kill an archer & knight goes Elite.

IBT
Nothing
Zaragoza – court – market
Pamplona – market - university
Asturias – court – library
Tereul – worker – worker

Turn 1 960
Pop barb camp blow it on galley upgrade.
Load 2 conquistadors into army & Army into caravel. It can’t sail until the rest of the army arrives next turn. The other two Empty caravel goes out to scout for a crossing. I’ll upgrade the 4th galley next turn to carry the rest of the army & pikes for protection on the IBT of the landing. The 5th caravel will complete on the IBT, so we’ll have a 3-stack of caravels for the crossing. I plan to land on a mountain unless I can find safe un-roaded jungle or marsh.
Not much else, kill an archer.

IBT
Santiago – our armies 3rd conquistador – conquistador
Murcia – caravel – caravel
Almeria – worker – worker
Zamora – settler – granary

Turn 2 970
Pop barb camp – upgrade caravel
Auto raze Arbela
Settler heads to cow by lake where he will grow specialists.
Pop another barb camp.
Drop slider still get Metallurgy in 1.

IBT
I picked– MT due in 7. There has got to be a safe passage since there are AI galleys of all stripes circling around, so navigation didn’t seem so important. We do need the Galleons, but the movement of cavalry will helps our homeland defense quite a bit. And a cav army to put the wood to the AI would also be nice.
Barcelona – knight – Library
Seville Knight – market
Toledo – knight – market
Dutch drop LB, knight & MI neat to Cadiz

Turn 3 980
Kill 2 Aztec LB’s & get 2 slaves near the SP on the mountain in the far NW.
At Cadiz, their knight kills our knight. We may lose a city. No big deal.
The conq. army is still in Murcia until I can determine where the crossing is.

IBT
Dutch auto raze Cadiz
Vitoria – barracks – market
Logrono – worker – worker

Turn 4 990
:sleep:

IBT
Our pike kills LB
Dutch knight kills our horse
Murcia – caravel – caravel
Asturia – Library - Market
Found Elche – worker

Turn 5 1000
knight kills the Dutch knight.
Still no safe place to cross.

IBT
Barcelona – library – knight
Santiago – conquistador – market
Valencia – market – library
Aztecs drop settler & LB’s on the ruins of Cadiz. This is a good place to farm slaves since the Ai is drawn to the nearby silks.

Turn 6 1010
Found Alcoron
Persia exits stage right.

IBT
Seville – market – knight
Aztecs found a city before our knights can get the settler.

Turn 7 1020
Our southern exploring caravel has found a sea-lane to an island. This may be a way to the other continent.
Northern Carvel wants glory too, so he decides to make a suicide run.

IBT
Gordium – worker – worker
Alicante – worker – court
Toledo – market – knight
Murcia – caravel - market
Santander – aqueduct – market
Zohak – worker – worker
Suicide survives.

Turn 8 1030
Kill LB & MI near Aztec city
MT is due this turn. Can’t drop Slider

IBT
MT comes in. Workers finish a road to salt.
I selected – Physics (6), then we gan go for Magnetism (so we can get galleys to transport the knight armies). You can load a cav as the fourth unit in these knight armies after they cross the ocean.
AI Galley comes out of the ocean near Jaen. Must be a crossing there also.
Zaragoza – market – Library
Palma – granary – settler
Exploring caravel gets attacked, but wins.

Turn 9
Safe Crossing is near Gordium
Army sets sail for the other continent. You have 2 extra conquistadors in the boats, since we’ll have the pentagon by the time you get there. You can make a 4 conq. army after yo land. There is also a knight & pike in the boats to protect the army on the IBT. Please be careful & unload in a safe place, and make sure you load only conquistadors in the army.

IBT
Barcelona – cav – cav
Tyre – granary – settler
Asturias – market – cav

Turn 10 1050
Convoy moves into position to cross the ocean next turn.
Couple of knights move off toward barracks so they can upgrade
Libraries & markets are really starting to make an impact on th economy. :)

NOTES:
LUX slider is at ZERO – be careful
Size 12 cities have to hire a specialist or they will revolt with the slider at zero if they only have one MP (as Madrid does). Also watch smaller cities such as Jaen. Small cities with no temple will revolt at size 5. You must check F1 each turn.
Take your time to find a safe place like a mountain to unload the army. Ship the pike and knight guard back home after the army is safely inserted.
Barcelona needs irrigation so it does not starve. It goes from 8 to 9 to 8 pop.
You can mine a square in Berlin to get it to 30 spt for 3 turn cav.
IIRC we now have two 4 spt cities with granaries that can build settlers.
There are two empty exploring caravels. I'd circle the other continent with these to see if there is a better crossing near our core. I think we will find one near our city of Jaen.
Consider leaving the Aztec city where it is. We can leader fish with elite Knights against LB's here, and may get a leader.
The Elite Knight on the SP mountain in the NW is there to kill settlers that drop off periodically.
We have good land for our corrupt cities to irrigate & grow specialists. :D

Pics to follow.

The west

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SLING3_1050adwest.JPG

The east

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SLING3_1050adeast.JPG

I've sat through 3 rounds of Isabella getting stomped, and I think we're all finally going to see something wonderful pretty quick here. Be prepared for the way people think of Spain to be rewritten... (is giddy with joy at the sight of the army)

I've sat through 3 rounds of Isabella getting stomped, and I think we're all finally going to see something wonderful pretty quick here. Be prepared for the way people think of Spain to be rewritten... (is giddy with joy at the sight of the army)

Yes, it will be hard for us to lose this one now. Soon we'll be able to ship the two knight armies over and then add a cav once they land as their fourth unit. The other continent will buckle under the pressure of three mounted armies razing & pillaging. :D

Excellent work Cuivienen on destroying most of Persia, and Handy on setting up the crossing.

I agree we will be winning this one at long last. I think we should continue research through to Steam Power to get rails (which frees up huge numbers of troops). We can continue to research after that, but I think we can start the major assault at that point. The techs we do get could speed things a bit, but are non-essential.

I think I would actually be up next. Does anyone mind if I see if I can set up the game and try to find time to play today? I will post again if it looks like it won't be happening. It would be fun to play at least one game while I am away :)

We will also want Communism after Steam.

I think we should be trying to get a 2nd Conquistador army, rather than a 1st Cav army. If we want armies to pillage, let's do it right! We'll probably only need two to wipe the other continent clean, and that was the entire motivation for choosing Spain and sticking with it for 3 games.

I did get things working so I am going to play. If Yom was up, then I apologize for "cutting". We can go for a swap. Best I remember the cd wasn't currently working.

Go ahead Greebley, it's still not working :(. Once it starts working though, I'm taking a turn immediately to test out the Conquistador armies :D.

Good luck Greebley. :) It's appropriate you get the first pillaging opportunties.

Second conquistador army sounds good. That's a lot of land to pillage. We'll soon have libraries & markets in all the core and can pump out some military. Several are complete already.


We are close to the point that we may not need anymore workers, and can let the corrupt cities farm specialists. We should have a steady stream of slaves to bring home after we get Galleons. :hammer:

Communism is a good idea, given the map size it'll be more useful than it was in HNDY03

Great news Greebley. Civ on the road. Is THAT a vacation, or what! Hope your enjoying the sunshine. What part of LA are you in?

I have to be skipped until Monday night. I'm coming into work early tomorrow so I can leave for the weekend to San Jose for the 10th annual Meathead Golf tourney. It's all my buddies from up there and I'll be coming home Monday afternoon.

Preturn: I cycle through the cities and MM them. They needed it. I can finish some things a turn faster with some MMing. I do this even in cases where it won't make a difference this time. Handy, I think you could get 20% more built in your towns if you did this every few turns. I am probably only at 95% efficiency myself due to the fact I don't adjust every turn.

Early: I start attacking a city that was place on our continent. Complete the Pentagon. Let the Pillaging Begin!
I am building universities. Get Physics and start Banking.

Mid: A knight army is lost on defense. The Longbow gets much more lucky than it should have. Ah well.

Late: Get Banking. Start on Magnetism. Oh No! I was tricked! I am on a small island and cannot get our army to the mainland. I destroy a town (Konya) in disgust.

Notes: Our economy is excellent. We can research techs in 4-5 turns (GA of course).

Problems have occurred. We lost a knight army on Defense. Our conquistador army is stuck on a small island until transports. I shouldn't have merged in the third unit. Note that our Knight army still only has 3 units.

Can someone post a picture of the annoying island? Picture posting is harder from here.

Bummer on the island. See you all Monday!

As long as there are still only 3 Conqs in the Army, it can be moved off of the island at Galleons -- Magnetism. Or does it have four Conqs in it?

Yeah, it looks like there are only 3 units in the Army. [That doesn't look like 16+HP to me.] So it can be moved off in 2-4 turns.

I think I'm up, so I'll get the army to the mainland (and stop attacking things with it).

And I'll re-MM for the end of the GA. Maybe Monte needs some attention, he's definitely Industrial.

There wer 2 conq. in the army when it was on the caravel, and 2 extra conq. on another boat, so I'm afraid there may be four units in the army. :( You'll just have to see when you open the file. It's not a game breaker - it'll just take us longer to win.

I'll have to go back & look @ the save I posted. I actually did go through each city each turn to MM. I was going for growth over production in a some cases IIRC. I don't like growing every 20 turns even if it does speed a build a little. I do appreciate the comment, since I do want to get better. Is is possible I'm even worse @ MM than I thought... :(

It has 4 conqs in it. Thinking back on it, I should have only added 3 of the 4. Since it was only for pillaging, the 4th adds no real benefit - Just makes it impossible to move. An error on my part I didn't even realize I was making. It will be on that island for a LONG time.

With attack strength of 3 we can add some cavs and clear the island of towns to get some use of the army. I don't think it can take out towns guarded by anything better than spears by itself.

Yeah, I saw the Army has 4 members in it when I opened the save. So now we have to get another leader. I will say that we certainly can burn/capture cities on that island with just the army. :mischief:

I'll finish my turn sometime today, I played 9 yesterday. This is a staggeringly boring AW game. :lol: The AI really doesn't want to land anything on our shores, even with all the empty coastal cities we have. (By the way, let's remember that the Vikings are in this game too, and not leave coastal cities undefended. :) )

Sling03 - We Threw a War and Nobody Came! :sad:

1150 AD (0)
Things look a little different since I last saw this game. One thing I note, the Aztecs were kind enough to build Tamuin on one of our dots. :lol:

We are paying so much in maintenance that I think a run for Smith's would be wise. Maybe the tech after Steam, with a sufficient pre-build? It's only trading away 7.5 Cavs.

MM-time, I think the numbers will be all screwed up by the end of the GA. Hate the clown in the capital, will change that. Aqueducts before Temples isn't prudent.

Forget it, the shields are all wrong from the GA. Next turn.

Someone will build the MA, so we can get more and better Armies. We are building a staggering amount of infrastructure and workers. 51 workers isn't enough!

IT - GA ends and we're losing a bunch of money. Smith's looks better all the time.

1160 AD (1)
No attacks on nothing. Just shuffling workers around.

Now for the great MM. Not a lot changes, just a few clowns fired. Barcelona starts on the Military Academy.

1170 AD (2)
Man, these are slow AW turns.

IT - Win an actual battle.

1180 AD (3)
I'm reduced to hunting barb camps. Score 25 gold, set about burning a Viking city on the Island of the Lost.

Would you believe it comes down to 1 scientist to get Mag in 1 turn instead of 2?

IT - Solid landing by the Dutch, AC + MDI. May lose an ex-Persian city on the next turn.

1190 AD (4)
Cav kills AC, but MDI vs. Pike on the next turn. Massive uprising somewhere.

Magnetism comes in, set for ToG. We don't have a pre-build for Smith's running, and I want to see the cascade die. Bach's and Newton's are currently being built.

Since Inigo has nothing better to do, capture Odense. At least it will give the AI something to target.

ToG in 8 at break-even. We have 275 gold.

IT - Dutch MDI attacks Cavalry, who retreats.

1200 AD (5)
Bait a trap, hoping to attack with my Elite MDI.

Net loss of 25 gold from sacking by barbarians. Will get it back next turn.

1210 AD (6)
Dutch MDI didn't fall for it, so I just kill with a Cav. {Also, the Elite MDI was an Elite* anyway. :rolleyes: }

Lots of units show up by Odense. Load loose units into boat and run like hell, burning Odense to the ground. And just to further jerk the AI's chain, raze the newly-built city of Middleberg as well.

IT - None of the AI have the stones to attack the injured army.

1220 AD (7)
Found another city, just making the planet more turquoise. There really isn't much happening. :coffee:

1230 AD (8)
Found another city. We are at 23/28 for domination. I just haven't been trying to assemble an attack force yet. We only have 11 Cavs and 1 loose Knight. Soon we'll be on all Cavs, all the time. I also have to admit that given the theme of these games, I am not anxious to send the Knight Army over to pillage. We really should be pillaging with Conquistador Armies.

1240 AD (9)
There really isn't anything going on.

Sleep on it for a night, then come back and MM. Yep, definitely nothing exciting here. :sleep:

IT - Again, only the Barbs seem to acknowledge that there is a war going on.

1250 AD (10)
Frag a Barb camp. Then off two more Barbs. Seriously, the only troops on our continent not wearing Spanish colors are the Barbs.

Final Notes:
Not sure what to say. This game is completely in the bag right now. The AI landed 2 or 3 troops on our soil this entire round. We aren't yet in a position to take the fight to them, we're awfully thin on the homefront and have a lot of ground to cover. The Infra push in our core should be ending, so we'll start to amass troops again.

The Aztecs may have dropped something off in our north. I haven't gotten any units up there to look yet, due to the Barb uprising. Those Northern Barbs will make excellent training grounds for our 3 new Conquistadors. [We should build a 4th, Valencia is on it.] We have 12 Cavs and 0 loose Knights on our soil, so we aren't ready to charge overseas yet. We do have a Knight Army available. I was hoping we could stick to the theme and wait to get another Conq. army to start pillaging, but if it's going to be another 30 turns ...

Keep the settlers and workers coming, we'll be Commie soon and all those cities count! I'd estimate we can get >35% land area with just our continent.

In hindsight, we should have let X-man hang around. We could use his Archers to generate armies.

Can't say as though there was a theme to these turns, so I'd guess just try to get the homefront stable. Once we get a rail-net we can take the fight overseas. I'd look for trouble around Dariush Kabir in the near future, lots of boats are sailing around and we don't have any units up there at present.

In conclusion: Greebley had his fun, then ruined it for everybody else! :lol:

Um...who's up? Cuivienen?

This is the most recent turn order posted, but I'm not sure if it's right with all the skips and swaps.

Greebley
Barbslinger
T_McC - Just played
Cuivienen - UP Now??
Handy - On Deck?
Yom

That's right. Got it.

Everything looks good... *Enter*

Two Iroquois Galleys kill our Caravel near Holwerd.

1255 AD (1) --

Murcia: Cavalry --> Cavalry
Pamplona: Bank --> Barracks
Vigo: Worker --> Worker

Lower Science for ToG next turn.


1260 AD (2) --

A conscript barb Horseman manages to kill a Pikeman fortified on a Mountain :eek:

We enter the Industrial Ages! Start Steam Power, due in 15 @ -17 gpt.

Seville: Settler --> Settler
Hamadan: Settler --> Settler
Almeria: Settler --> Settler
Asturias: Cavalry --> Cavalry

I discover a rather large island that the AI has fully colonized on the far side of their continent. Check that -- two separate islands.

We capture and keep Holwerd with our Conq army just to incite the AI.

1265 AD (3) --

Some barb Horses attack, but none win this time *phew*

Valencia: Conquistador --> Conquistador
Valladolid riots due to mismanagement.

Elche founded.

1270 AD (4) --

The Aztecs land an MDI near Burgos. The Ottomans and Aztecs land a bunch of troops near Holwerd -- I abandon it.

Seville: Settler --> Settler
Jaen: Galleon --> Harbor (don't want reg Galleons)

Conq Army kills an Aztec Pike/Longbow/Settler trio. Since the slaves won't live to get off the island anyway, I kill them.

Kill the Aztec MDI.

1275 AD (5) --

Santiago: Musket --> Bank
Pamplona: Barracks --> Musket
Vitoria: Musket --> Settler

Not much happens at all... Kill a Pike in Tonawanda.

That's all can do for now. I'll finish later.

So ... uhhh ... any progress?

Sorry, I'm almost done. We had the power out at my house for construction yesterday so I couldn't play any more. I'll be done today.

1280 AD (6) --

The Dutch land a Cav, Merc and Longbow near Elche. Our Cavs make quick work of them.

Badajoz: Worker --> Temple
Zaragoza: Musket --> Bank
Dariush Kabir: Worker --> Worker
Santander: Cavalry --> Cavalry
Teruel: Settler --> Settler

A Rifleman shows up in Tonawanda! Our Conq Army manages to kill him, but now needs to heal for a few turns.

Barbs show up near Pasargadae. Kill them.

1285 AD (7) --

The Dutch land another stack near Elche. They are also killed.

Seville: Settler --> Cavalry
Valencia: Conquistador --> Worker (skimming)
Asturias: Cavalry --> Cavalry
Merida: Worker --> Worker

Alcorcon riots.

The Aztecs complete Bachs and everyone cascades to Newton's. The Dutch finish it in Maastricht, their island city.

1290 AD (8) --

The Aztecs kill the two Pikemen on the island with a Longbow and two MDIs (they were fortified on a Mountain).

The Dutch make ANOTHER landing near Elche.

Madrid: Bank --> Cavalry
Gordium: Settler --> Settler
Toledo: Bank --> University
Cadiz: Worker --> Worker
Murcia: Cavalry --> Cavalry
Valencia: Worker --> Conquistador
Vitoria: Settler --> Cavalry
Zohak: Worker --> Worker

1295 AD (9) --

We lose a Knight on the island to two Longbows (again, fortified on a Mountain).

The Aztecs and Dutch both land near Elche this turn. A Cav promotes to Elie killing them off (Aztecs: 2 Pikes, 2 MDIs, a Knight and a Longbow; Dutch: A Merc, a Crusader and an MDI).

Tyre: Settler --> Settler

New Madrid and New Barcelona founded.

Kill an Ottoman settler pair on the island.

1300 AD (10) --

No landings near Elche this turn.

Barcelona completes the Military Academy!

Military Academy --> Army (20 turns)

Jaen: Harbor --> Galleon
Pamplona: Musket --> Musket

New Seville and New Toledo founded.


That's about it. A few more landings this turn than the last one, but the AIs are still hardly resisting at all. Just need that Army to complete in Barcelona and then we'll ravage the AI. Steam Power due in 7 turns @ -14 gpt with 353 gold in the bank.

>>SAVE<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Sling3_AD1300.SAV)

Sounds good. Steam will really help when we get it. I am thinking that we may want to improve the army's town first. We can get the time to build the army down to maybe 12 turns or so and pillage that much earlier.

The techs that I would consider going for next are:
Industrialization
Sanitation
Communism
Rep Parts.

I think Industrialization is the best. We can get factories and coal plants to greatly increase production in our core cities.

Sanitation would be best if the game was going to be long, but I think we are approaching the end.

Communism is good, but I think it a bit early for it. We would be increasing the output of undeveloped cities that are small at the cost of our main built up powerhouses that can crank out units especially after they get factories. When our population is fairly uniform, we have filled out all our land, and have courthouses, then communism makes sense.

Rep Parts might be a good choice. Infantry, Artillery, faster workers, and civic engineers all make things much easier. Civic engineers in particular could get us Courthouses in all cities before we switch to communism rather than after.

So my suggestion is
Indust, then go for RP, then maybe Communism.

Ahem ...

I think we need Nationalism before we can research Communism. Nationalism should be the cheapest tech we can next research (all the AI will go for it first, all the time), so I'd lean that direction for our next tech.

I'm undecided on Industrialization vs. Communism after that. Industrialization is the better choice if we are still settling/railing our continent, since it gives us more time to build Courthouses. If we are able to start Courts before we have to choose between Ind and Comm, then maybe Comm first is better. I don't think we will lose much production capacity in our core, provided we build Courts there.

Oh, and start a pre-build for Smith's somewhere. I think the cascade is dead, so the Wonder is ours for the taking. Maybe the best plan is Nationalism --> Economics (while core builds Cavs, outliers build more workers/settlers) --> Industrialization (core builds Cavs, pre-builds for Factories; outliers start on Courthouses) --> Communism.

I think industrialization gets us more than Nationalism.

Do your feel we need rifles? I don't see them as being high priority - I would rather go straight for infantry.

We certainly don't want to ever mobilize (we could never build non-military ever again (like factories)) and drafting gives us very lack-luster units.

I tend to look at the glass as "We're the biggest Civ on the planet, and it takes us 17 turns at a deficit to research an Industrial Age tech". My motivation is to get out of Monarchy ASAP, Communism is such a better Gov't I would even be willing to delay Factories to get there sooner.

I suggested Economics because we can trade 7.5 Cavs for about 50 gpt by building Smiths, but if we forego that, the proletariat can probably revolt in 35 turns.

I figure Industrialization will be 17-20 turns if we're researching primarily at first. We can't run much of a deficit for 20 turns but we will be growing a little and can probably let some cities stop building workers/settlers and start building Scientists. If we then head for Replacable Parts that's another 50+ turns, because we have to research Medicine and Electricity first. So I'm guessing about 70 turns before we have a better unit on defense than a Musket. Establishing a beach-head on the other continent will be tricky.

Well, whoever's up gets to decide. :)

Let's break this down a bit. We know we want:

(A) Industrialization
(B) Nationalism --> Communism
(C) Medicine, Electricity --> Replacable Parts

We could go A,B,C. Or we could go B,A,C. I don't think it makes any sense to go for C before either A or B.

My vote is now for A --> B --> C. While we research Industrialization, our core builds Cavalry, then it builds Factories while we research Nationalism. After the Factories complete we can build Rifles to cover the invasion force, and our outlying cities have about 55 turns to get ready for the gov't switch, which should be more than enough time to get the last workers and settlers that we will need.

If we're going Commie, we really don't have a burning need for Smiths.

Handy's up now, I'm on deck. I think we should go for Communism soon as well. Our core cities can already build courts in the same time to build a cav, so we could quickly build courts and prebuild for Police Stations and have them just as productive when Communism comes in. Also, with our oddly shapped lands (and a lot of water next to our capital), our income and production will skyrocket. Our empire is sort of dumbell-shaped (ideal for FP placement in PTW, but horrible in C3C) which means that we have the most to gain from the switch (along with long and narrow empires). I don't think RP is really necessary. First of all, as T_McC stated, we have to get Medicine and Electicity first. Second of all, it's just making it easier for the AIs to get Infantry. Riflemen we can handle with Cav armies and artillery, Infantry is still doable, but a lot harder. I think 1 rifleman army (or 5-10 riflemen) will be sufficient for holding a beachhead (after pillaging) and that we'll already have this force by the time we research RP. We may want to research industrialization before Communism though. IIRC, it's a pre-requisite of Espionage which we want to get ASAP. The SPHQ will really cut down on corruption and should be built as soon as we get Espionage via a pre-build.

Oh, and I think it'd be pretty ironic to build Smith's Trading Center (stock full of copies of The Wealth of Nations) in Communist (rather than Fascist) Spain ;). Oh, what fun it is to make historical connections :lol:.

Edit: I say we go A->B->D->C with D being Espionage. Also, wouldn't Smith's actually be better in communism (I know it sounds counter-intuitive). Since all of our cities will be productive, all of them will be able to build commerce producing buildings, which means the effect of Smith's is more widespread than in a capitalist government with just 1 core of improved cities.

Go ahead & skip me. I'll be late at work tonight, then have to get home, pack & take care of loose ends before we leave early Thursday.

Good Luck :thumbsup:

I guess that makes me up, and you know my thought on the matter.

I got it. I'll play it either tonight or tomorrow night (most likely tomorrow, I rented some movies that I want to watch).

A->B->D-> Steal C seems better than A->B->C so I am going to agree with Yom.

The decision between A->C and A->B is very dependent on game length and how much longer C takes to research than B. I keep thinking I should get that tech calculator app. Then I could know how much longer C takes to research than B rather than vaguely guessing.

Actually, since we are religious and can switch quickly - B is a much better option than if we weren't religious.

Actually, I was thinking that since we are religious we might want to switch to republic for a while for the higher research. We would have to switch back when war weariness started adding up. I am unsure how long that would take...Bombardment being the most serious source of WW.

Hmm...switching to Republic is certainly a novel idea, but is it practical? It really depends on whether or not WW is stored while you are in a government without WW. If it is, that means that all the war weariness we would have accumulated is automatically applied. If not, we start with a clean slate, which might be better than staying in Monarchy.

IIRC, only bombardment, units in enemy territory (including attacking in enemy territory, which, in turn, includes pillaging), and defending against enemy units (whether you win or lose) gets us WW. Our Conq. Army will probably be our biggest source of WW, and even that might not be much since it's just 5 units.

Republic is almost definitely a no-go. We lose MP and gain WW, so if we swapped and had to run <50% lux I'd be shocked. We've lost plenty of troops and spent plenty of time in enemy territory for WW to be significant from the first turn. [Yes, we already have a WW tally. It's just not ever expressed in Monarchy.]

Our economy is just about tapped out in Monarchy. Our productive cities have very little room left to grow, even with rails. The only improvement our economy will see is when we can irrigate/rail sufficiently to create herds of taxmen or scientists. Once we go Commie we can violently out-produce the AI.

@Greebley - I don't use a tech calculator, I just guess. :p Figure we were running a deficit to research Steam in 17 turns. Other 1st-tier techs (Nationalism, Medicine) should be about the same price, 2nd-tier techs (Ind, Communism, Electricity) would be more expensive, 3rd-tier (RP, Espionage?) a little more than that. Ballpark of 20 turns/tech should be about right, unless we can juice up our economy.

I think I tested it once and the slate was clean. We can experiment by taking an old save and switching. I wouldn't want to be wrong :D

Few people play religious civs in AW so it isn't often an option. I have wondered if you can switch multiple times and have WW go away over time when not a Republic. Not tried it however.

Our research seemed high enough not to bother with up to now, but it seems it is currently getting low. Getting to communism faster would be nice, but I am unsure if the extra two turns of anarchy helps or hinders.

If the test mentioned in the first paragraph does work, then we can try it out and see. I think we are in a strong enough position that 4 extra turns of anarchy won't lose the game

The more I think about it, I'm not sure ...

If WW accumulated while out of Republic/Democracy, fighting a war and then immediately swapping to Rep/Dem should send you into massive disorder. And I can't remember ever seeing that happen. Maybe we don't have an accumulated WW.

But taking a different approach: I'm not sure we'll speed research up very much. Yes, we get extra trade. But we'll have to raise the lux tax, and our unit support will be problematic. Whatever we can support now, we'll get 1/2 that for free under Republic, and we'll pay 2 gpt for the difference. If we are already at double our Monarchy support limit, we'll triple our unit expenses. :eek:

It's worth a try, this game is won. But I wouldn't be surprised if we really aren't researching any faster.

Well I tried it with an old save and got WW. I am not sure what I did last time. So the Republic idea is out. With WW and high unit costs it would be foolish.

Greebley - On deck
Barbslinger -
T_McC -
Cuivienen -
Handy -
Yom - UP

I'm not going to get this until tomorrow, so keep up the discussion.

I did some testing and RP is 15% slower if we don't need medicine to get it (I forget if we do or not).

If it does require Med, then I thnk Communism is better.

If it doesn't require Med, the question to my mind is whether we will be in the "end game" by the time we get Communism. It seems we build up forces to a critical point (a set of turns when we finally can start moving forward and attack the AI in force) and then go beat up the world. This makes sense as the AI gets weaker and weaker and we are getting stronger, so the game ends quickly when that point is reached.

If communsim comes sufficiently before this "critical point" I think that it is the better choice as we need more units to reach it

However RP gives us an increase in power with upgrades that is more immediate. This is useful even past the critical point as Artillery can take out cities and units from a distance. Communism means more of the same units that are far from the front line, which is less useful.

When I looked at the tech Calc, Nationalism and Communism were the same cost, and electricity and RP were the same cost. We can tell how long each takes by doubling the number of turns for Nationalism and Electricity.

We then have to guess how many turns communism will be used to reach the critical point I mention and whether that is more worthwhile than infantry and artillery

[Edit: Given that we have a whole continent to conquer, I think communism will be worth while].

Sorry guys :(, I won't be able to play this tonight. I have family visiting. If Greebley doesn't want to take it now (he's up in HNDY04, so I think not), I'll play this tomorrow .

Go ahead an play Yom. I will wait.

Hmm...well that was unexpected. Windows task manager shows me that Conquests automatically cancels the operation after a few seconds :( (no idea why. It has done this once or twice before, but I'm really not in the mood to try to screw around with my computer to get it to work right now). Please skip me.

You have had the worst luck with civ, Yom. Perhaps reinstalling the game would help?

I got it and will play tomorrow.

You have had the worst luck with civ, Yom. Perhaps reinstalling the game would help?

I got it and will play tomorrow. I concur and option $20 bucks to Yom for a new disk. I'm thinking it's something internal though becuase it is intermittent. I feel bad about yor problems too Yom because you play well. In summary, get you're freaking system fixed. It's CIV baby, and every SG needs YOU.

If I recall correctly, Yom has already done that and this is a NEW problem to rear its ugly head. Yom can say for sure.

I am off to play this. Will probably have a report in a few hours....

[Edit: To recap the above discussions - Republic doesn't work; I am going for Communism [Edit 3: after Industrialization which is first], then Espionage in terms of Tech (not that I will get that far).

[Edit 2: It occurrs to me that stealing world map might be really nice. We can do that with Espionage!]

[Edit 4: Thats right we are still going for steam... I won't get to any of this, except Industrialization.

Preturn:
MM note to self - Madrid can get to 19 spt with +1 useless food. If we mine a plains square we can get to 20 spt and shave a turn off our cav builds - though maybe just waiting for rails will work. I do switch a food for a gold as we are + 2 food and size 12.

Pamplona is size 12 with excess food. I switch to a worker to pop one off as we will want to start rails soon (I like having size 12 towns build workers - the argument against is the 2 gpt it costs us for unit support). It will cost us 1080 gold to upgrade all our pikes ( will wait for the rifle upgrade I think).

We have very little artillery (4 Treb and 4 Cannon). I think more will help us invade. I will try to build some during my turns.

I want a leader so we can actually pillage. the continent. I am still kicking myself for adding that 4th Conquistador :cry:

Cuivienen has left our empire in very good shape, in terms of MM.

IBT: 4 knights, 2 long bow and an MDI are landed. We may have a difficult time dealing with this threat as it is in a place not well defended (the Persian hinterlands).

1305 AD: We do have sufficient units to kill the landing. Work on clearing the island - attack Tonawanda

IBT: 8 more units form the other two civs land including on a mountain (4 from 2 different civs). This will be harder to deal with as our units are injured.

1310 AD: Increase science to go -55 gpt. I want rails so we can better defend vs these landings. I abandon the town and kill a few knights.

IBT: I made one mistake... Disbanding the town means the units have more range. A settler to the N is borked by a Knight.

1315 AD: Kill some of the intruders. Many healing units

IBT: No new landings.

1320 AD: Do a slightly risky leader fish 2hp elite cav vs a longbow, but it pays off. We get a leader. Last invaders killed.

IBT: I think the boats are now going to land elsewhere - no landings

1325 AD: Conq Army is assembled and we head off into the great blue sea.

IBT: Iron works message.

1330 AD: The Ironworks winner is Santander. Not as good as Barcelona, but definitely second best. We switch to it right away. Industrialization in 14 at -16 gpt. Start building a RR Backbone for our civ.

IBT: A minor landing of a knight and Longbow.

1335 AD: Kill the two units.

1340 AD: Our backbone is starting to form...

IBT: A landing of a 3 Pike, 1 Knight, and 2 MDI.

1345 AD: We are able to kill the stack. Our backbone now runs from the Capitol to Just inside of the old Persian border.
We finally land a Conq army on the enemy mainland!

IBT: Netherlands lands 3 Cavalry

1350 AD: Pillage part of Ottoman territory.
Our stuck Conquistador army finally razes Tonawanda (A new city is settled on the island).

Notes:
I would consider sending a contingent of Cav and Musket to the Island to help the lone Conq army keep it clear. The AI is resettling it. We have probably freed up enough units with our rails to be able to control it and clear it of the enemy. Then we only need a maintainance level of troops to keep it clear.

RR is coming in I went for instant access first - we haven't started the RR for improving our core yet.

I was moving units about so many will be active next turn. Many just need to be fortified.

We could also start building up forces to clear the other islands. Several exist that would be easier than the main island and could get us leaders.

I didn't build as many Cannon as I would like.

I also built Colosseums. I was having a few troubles with riots when I moved around units (for some reason it is still hard for me to remember to check every turn ). This will keep our cities happy (I really like Sistine - 2 lux keep size 12 cities happy).

There is a size 1 island on this map. We will not get a conquest victory until Marines . It is the last Iroquois city (who lack engineering).

We are the only Civ with Steam [dance]

Tech situation:
Iroquois lack Literature, Engineering, and Theology.
Vikings lack Education and Mil Tradition.
Zulu lack Education and Metallurgy
The Aztec, Ottomans, and Dutch all have the optional MA Techs and Nationalism. They all lack Steam.

We are actually keeping up in tech.

Question: Do we want to go after TOE? Getting it and Hoover might be even better than Communism. Right now our corruption is about 1/3. In communism a town without a courthouse will be 1/4 corrupt for distance corruption alone. I don't think we would be doing better than 1/5 corruption until every town gets polices stations which are costly to build. Maybe a free +50% to our core shields might be better?

Here is a picture of our Empire:

I'll wait for others to chime in but I like the 2 free techs of ToE.

Barbslinger, I think you are up in this one too.

The more I think of it it the more I am tempted by going the RP and TOE (and sanitation) route rather than communism.

You can go for any tech you like. If you're happy with 15-16 turn research. Our economy is almost completely tapped out for Monarchy.

Communism is the best thing that could happen to our economy. Rather than +50% production for our 6 core cities (through the expense of ~48 turns of research and 1600 shields of wonders), how about we triple our number of productive cities. :)

I agree with T_McC. Our empire may look formidable, but corruption is killing us. I dare someone to go to F1 and check how much money we're losing from corruption. The only real downside to Communism is the pop-rushing. Other than that, we get 2x the OCN with the FP and SPHQ, 3x the production, 3x the commerce, and more unit support (since all cities allow 6 units). With all these things going for it, why would you want to go another way?

Our defense isn't really hurting, so RP isn't necessary. Obviously we have fresh water so Electricity is no hurry. Though the 2 techs from TOE is nice, let's face it: we don't really need AT and Electronics in this game. The 50% production boost from Hoovers will be nice in Communism. However, the production increase from simply switching to Communism will be far greater. I vote we go straight to COMMUNISM and then ESPIONAGE.

P.S. After a couple restarts and reinstalls late last night I got conquests working again.

Sling3 – 1350AD – Isabella’s Redemption?

1350AD Preturn – The commie debate is kind of moot through my turns. We have a lot of shields invested in industry already and our core could certainly use the factories. My turns will concentrate on:
1. Putting ribs on this backbone of a rail system we have.
2. Getting some cav support for the conquest armies.
3. Defending the homeland.
4. Getting industry and then setting up for factories.
5. Hoping for a leader.
Along those lines I do put 2 more scientists to work and cut some of the growth I cities that are corrupt to create tax and science. This gets industry in 9 at –10gpt. Until we get to commie those corrupt cities can be used as specialist farms. I think my mind is being swayed towards communism with the amount of cities we have here. If we go Indus>national>Commie>Med>elec>SciMeth. Then we could take RP and espionage with ToE. Then shut off science and steal our way through the tree after that.
Not finding any movement on cavs I proceed.

IT – A caravel near Niagra Falls is sunk by a galley. Madrid-Cav>Cav, Burgos-Ct>Mkt, Pamplona-Coll>Cav in 6 but MM to 5.

[1] 1355AD – Lots of roading. The conquest army pillages 8 tiles and lands back on the mountain. That is tough thinking which 9 to get to end back up on a mountain. Will be tough to get across to the heart of the continent. Shadowing boats. Industry in 8 at –11gpt. Iworks now in 11.

IT – One knight dropped off. Hamadan –Settler>Wkr, Almeria-Temp>Wkr, Asturias-Cav>Coll prebuild for factory, Zamora-Harbor>Wkr.

[2] 1360AD – Bomb and elite kill knight. No luck on leader. Working the rails. It is just about time to get back to the core to do some railing to open up MM and increase shields. The builds are taking their toll on our economy. Industry in 7 at –15gpt with 71g in the kitty.

IT – An AC, LB, 3MI’s and 2 pikes land right where I killed the knight. Should be no trouble. A rifle, LB, MI and a settler land in the north Persian tundra. Tyre-Settler> Wkr, Cadiz-Temp>Ct, Murcia-Musket>Coll prebuild for factory. Zamora-Wkr> Wkr. 2-turn workers for a while.

[3] 1365 – I’m able to kill all but the long bow in the Persian tundra. Next turn. Our 2 ship conq army delivery service makes it home intact. Small island conq army is healed so I raze Hareid. There are 2 settler ready to plant there also. They are covered by rifles. Dispatch the large group. No leaders but an elite comes out of it. Indus in 6 at –13gpt.

IT – No attacks. Saw a pirate ship win a battle.

[4] 1370 – Finish off the LB and collect 2 slaves. Get the Iworks down to 6. Still railing. Taking a chance I scoot the conq army 9 tiles west to hunt for a mountain. No luck but hopefully we’ll survive next turn. 2 tiles short of a forest or mountain. Really not sure what to do with these settlers. Squeeze them in to decrease support costs I guess. We need another leader before thinking we can set up a beach landing.

IT – No landings but I think they’re moving to the northern mountains where they get the defense bonus. Madrid-Cav>Cav but can be swapped on the big picture to factory.

[5] 1375 – Conq army made it and we’re now working our way up through zulu towards Dutch and Aztec lands. Nice mountains to work with here. Knocked a dye, salt and iron off line. Lay an HP of hurt on 7 ships. Industry in 4 at –9gpt. I think we’re going to make it.

IT – No landings. All 7 ships head home to heal.

[6] 1380 - Knock out 3 Zulu dyes. That’s gonna hurt some trade. Have a look at F4 and see we are still the only ones in IA.

IT – 3 knights land but the rails will help on this.

[7] 1385 – Cannon bomb and 3 leader shots, no luck. Our knight army and 3 cavs sail to island to continent to disembark in 3. I’m thinking knight army and 1 cav can go to mainland where cav can join army and raze some cities. 2 cavs can help out the conq army. Indus in 2 at –5gpt with 12g.

IT – No landings.

[8] 1390 – Industry will come in with 5g to spare. Adjust slider and tax to scientist again and we are at +14gpt. Railnet fleshing out nicely. The core is coming along too with almost all mines railed.

IT – Must remember to swap Madrid and Seville on big picture to factories. Nice landing right where last 3 knights landed for some leader fishing. 3 knights, 3MI’s and a pike. Tons of movement near conqarmy on the other side of the world.

[9] 1395 – Madrid and Pamplona factories in 5 with Seville in 8. I works and army next turn. Nationalism in 10 at +23gpt. Why haven’t we gone for Smiths? Once the AI starts it we should detour for 6 turns to get the tech. We get a leader and he makes an Army sitting in Murcia. Had 2 elite promos before that.

IT – Another leader fish landing with a cav in it this time. 2 builds. Army> Factory in 11 (need to do more railing there). Ironworks>Factory in 5.

[10] 1400 – Lose an elite cav to a 2hp rifle and kill the rest with no leaders or promos.

The 3 cav and knight army made it to the island. I snuck the ships around the horn and if they don’t get sunk you can use them to get the knight army and a cav to the mainland. The other 2 cavs can help the conq army patrol the lost island. Factories and unis will be coming online for next leader so you should be able to knock some cavs out. It looks like the BIG3 got steam last turn so they are catching up. The conq army is terrorizing on the Aztec-Dutch border sitting on a hill. DON”T leave him injured and on the flats. He will be attacked. I would try to leave him on a hill/mountain after you count off 9 moves. It is a sweet pillager. 9 mountain hill tiles at a time!

I saw we got another leader. Do we have 2 pillaging Conquistador armies now?

I saw we got another leader. Do we have 2 pillaging Conquistador armies now?It is unloaded and sitting in Murcia. We didn't have enough conqs and the crossing gave me trepidation.

If Yom can play, he is up!

Otherwise I'll claim the game late PM EST.

Oops, didn't notice I was up. I'll play this sometime today/tonight. A roster at the end of everyone's turn would be nice ;).

Having two conquistador armies will help. On a standard map there is a LOT of ground to cover and the conquest AI is pretty good at repairing damage. (Three would be even better :D )

I am still not sure how much difference communism will make. Setting corrupt cities to scientists and doing mass irrigation is a darn good way to research.

RP with its double worker speed, Civil engineers, Artillery, and Infantry. TOE and the two free techs sound like serious competitors to Communism.

Still I don't mind trying communism. Maybe I will be wrong. I would like to see a screen shot of the F1 sceen before and after we revolt so I can try to decide for future games whether to go for communism or not, if the person playing at that time can do it.

The primary benefits of Communism are extra unit support (haven't looked at the save, but I'd guess we have >30 cities, so unit support should be worth 75-100 gpt over Monarchy) and raw production.

The boost in research will come primarily because our unit support will drop to zero and we can run the sliders 10-20% higher on science and lower on cash. We will also likely to be able to build 2X the units under Communism as under Monarchy. If I'm after Yom, we may hit Communism on my watch. The relevant screens are F1 for corruption (set sliders to 100% lux) and F11 for Productivity.

I don't think you are right about the units. The problem is that none of the towns have courthouses. I suspect we will building those and perhaps police stations as well which will take a while After that we will have an increase, but our core cities with factories will still be outproducing the smaller non-core cities. My guess that once we get the courthouses we will be about 1.5x the sheilds. and we will start making up for the shields we lost in Anarchy. That won't take long since we are religious.

It could be figured out I suppose. To make your claim true we would need to have more corrupt than uncorrupt shields by a margin greater than the courrupt shields we have in communism. Counting corrupt vs non-corrupt shields would give us some indication. if we have twice as many corrupt as uncorrupt, then I think you will be corrupt. If the numbers are about even, then it depends on how much corruption we have in communism.

To summerize it depends on:
How corrupt is a town without a courhouse and Police? How corrupt with?
How many turns will it take to build the courthouse and police in turns?
How long after getting communism will the game last?

As I say I am willing to try it - if nothing else it answers some of these questions.