Compared to the other games in this series, this one required a lot more work to be set up; nevertheless, I think I found a nice way to incorporate the Mongols as playable Civ; it even works for the AI.
In short, they are blocked for 100 turns, and then get a Cruise Missile type unit that opens the road to the West.

I decided to start it in 843AD as usual, to increase replayablity. However, that means you have to hit ENTER a couple of times before the game really starts.

Here are all necessary files (instructions in a readme file).

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Middle_Ages_Mongols.zip

The Steppe strikes back (or again?)

Here’s a look at our units right now:


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Real_Start.jpg



‘nuff said.
Keshiks are 5.3.3, Defensive Bombard, Blitz, no upkeep, ignore MP of Hills and Mountains. And they have another nice ability...
Unfortunately, we cannot build them at will…


Variant rules:

Surprisingly (considering their image) the Mongols valued trade extremely high.

Tolerance:
When approaching a city, they usually offered pretty acceptable conditions for surrender (and sticked to their offers!).
That means: If a city surrenders (= we capture it without any casualties), the citizens must be treated honourably – no razing, no deliberate starving/whipping to get rid of foreigners.

…and Terror:
But if that generous offer wasn’t accepted, they usually razed cities of new enemies…
That means: Any casualties during capturing the 1st city of a Civ will result in razing that city.
And, for historical accuracy, Baghdad must be razed as well.

We will establish no embassies. We expect those minor nations to come to us! And we will incite no alliances; if we’re asked, we may accept.


Goal:
Domination!

To make this feasible, conquest VPs have been reduced to half.

What you need to know:

• War Council/ White Horde produce a Keshik every 6 turns. Golden Horde @ 5.
• In the next turn, you’ll get a way to start :hammer: .
• This game: Poland is unusually strong (3 Wonders!). Germany has the HRE. Byzantium seems to have not fought at all so far. We are already at war with Turks and Abbasids (I didn’t cave).

Roster:

Deceased Horse – up
Vizurok – on deck
Doc – just played 99 turns ;)

The save:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Mongols1140AD.zip

Got it. Gonna

Great Khan,
The two columns of the Golden Horde have nearly reached the lands of the west. Blocking the way deeper into the land beyond the steppes are mighty empires; the Mameluke* Caliphate, the Byzantine Empire, and the Ottoman Turks. The Golden Horde is mighty, but we are stretched thin. No matter; we have persevered in the face of overwhelming numbers before and will do so again. 32 companies of Keshiks now stand ready. I have authorized the training of local tribesmen as auxiliaries. They do not have the life-long experience and skill of a Mongol, but they shall aid us in taking holding the land we conquer from the Caliphate and the Turkish Horde. Per your orders, we are in the process of setting up a Chinese bureaucracy, but this project is many years from completion. In the south, Tamur faces the Mamelukes and the Turks serpate from my own troops by the Ottomans horsemen. Our bases remain impregnable, protected by miles of barren steppes that the peoples of this land cannot hope to cross and survive.

Sabutai1140 AD

Note: I will refer to the Abassids as the Mamelukes for flavor purposes

Preturn: Well, we sure are in an intrusting strategic situation. We are faced with an immediate war with the Mamelukes (Abassids) in the south, and the Poles and the Kievan Rus box us in up north. No one will sell us maps right now, so we will be fighting blind for awhile. Preliminary plan is to forge an empire up north, smashing the various Scandinavian colonies the AI likes to build, while fighting defensively in the Middle East, depending on how much resistance the Horde ends up facing. Hit enter.

IBT: The Poles finish ROBIN HOODS in Wroclaw. I hadn’t realized just how far along the tech tree they’d gotten; I hope we won’t be facing Pikemen right out the gate. Our two cities get culture expansions and pop their missile units out.


Turn 1: Destroy the two ‘Great Distance’ units holding us in. I find the animation pretty hilarious. Declare war on the Poles. The inhabitants of Warna dare to defy the horde, slaying a Keshik. They pay the ultimate price, and the Golden Horde burns their city to ashes! We also get a (rather useless) Golden Age as a result. In the south, the people of New Damascus wisely surrender to the Horde. The city controls an iron source (we can always sell it off) and will make a good forward base anyway. Striking across the desert wastes, the horde smashes the defenders of New Medina, whose citizens wisely surrender as well. Bad news as well: A company of Vassal Cavalry spots a regular pikemen defending an Abassid city. Didn't know we were this far along, although I should be used to the demigod tech pace by now. Unprepared for the lightning speed of the Golden Horde, two Mameluke laborer battalions are caught in the open and enslaved.

IBT: The Mamelukes (ansar warriors) themselves move up to counter-attack, but in their arrogance remain in the open. Do we strike now, without knowing how many follow in their wake?

Turn 2: A single Keshik blitzes New Mosul; there was only a single pike in it along with a spear. Promote to Elite. Kill the two Mamelukes (ansar warriors) approaching New Medina, one promotion, and one enslavement. The Elite goes after a pair of exposed workers, running into an Assassin. The Assassin is enslaved, the workers captured. Two more Ansars fall in Mesopotamia, 1 enslaved. Hattin falls next, and 2 more units are enslaved. A longbow company is seen in the fighting; Swiss mercs could be only a tech away! In the north, our Keshiks spot a Turkish settlement and move to attack it next turn. Another Polish town is targeted as well.

IBT: The Caliphate is craftier than we expected-their counter thrust comes not in the form of a cavalry charge, but in a swarm of Assassins are are. Our Keshik’s retreat ability and decent defense means we do ok, but our offensive force in Mameluke territory is nearly overwhelmed by sheer numbers. We NEED a way to deal with Invisible units. MAJOR miscalculation on my part, I totally forgot how much the AI loves invisible units and spent all my time planning for an Ansar attack.

Turn 3: Kill 3 Assassins. Move three units with Blitz do make nice patrol units. At New Baghdad, an Elite Keshik slays a defending longbow and:


Ogedai! Keshik army time. Perfect timing.

In the north, Turkish Sliven and Polish Torun fall before the horde. Karakorum, our first self-built city, is founded near the ruins of Warna.

IBT: Assassins and Longbows counterattack. Lose a total of one vassal cav, thanks to the retreat ability.

Turn 4: Raze a Polish city halfway off the map. More skirmishes with the Mamelukes I the Middle East. Spot another Turkish border, but I think that the horde will take the German City of Hannover first…

IBT: Lose two regular Vassal Cavalry to Abassid counters. Torun and New Medina continue rioting; can’t starve the resistors, they surrendered.

Turn 5: Capture Polish Denizil, enslaving two cavalrymen. Trade WM+10 gold to the Germans for contact with the Celts, then declare war on them and take Hanover. They surrender, and shall be spared the wrath of the Horde. Oghedi forms the Golden Horde in New Damascus, the sword that shall cut the throat of the Mamelukes! Speaking of Mamelukes, kill 4 Assassins, two longbows, one archer, and one pikeman. Our attack on Basra destroys the barracks. Poland will now give us Castle Building and two workers for peace. Buy Castle Building from the Celts for 250 gold to open up more valuable techs, higher up in tech tree.

IBT: Lost 3 Keshiks to Mameluke counters. All offensive forces are being pulled back next turn; the army is definitely needed. The Bulgars ask us to leave-they are Gracious towards us, maybe because their leader is the long-lost twin of the Great Khan.

Turn 6: Entering the next age has the side effect of opening up the Arab tech tree for us; I remember this being in the scenario introduction but had forgotten about it. Presumably, we can build Assassins if we get the tech, which would obviously be better than waiting until warrior monks for a unit that can spot, invisible. Rjazan and Merv switched to libraries. The Poles will give us Early Siegecraft and Code of Laws for peace now. The Golden Horde attacks Basra, slaying two pikemen, enslaving one.

IBT: Usual Assassin attacks. The Germans sign the Castilians into an MA against us. We’re real scared, Otto.

Turn 7: The horde has begun to penetrate into Turkish territory. A pike and a spear are slain in Aydin. Two spears slain in a German Siberian colony, which has its name, covered by the fog. Slay 4 Assassins and 1 longbow. The Golden Horde takes Basra:

Raze the city. It will just culture flip and we have settler sitting around waiting for something to do.

IBT: More Mamelukes counters attack, lose 1 vassal cavalry. They are attacking with normal archers now for some reason. The Germans found Bonn; down in the Middle East near where New Baghdad was razed.

Turn 8: Found Ta-Tu, up in the Russian Steppes. Aydin falls to the Horde. Plovdiv, the German Mystery City falls next. Two Bulgar swords stand right next to it; the Bulgars must be at war with the Germans, explaining their attitude towards us right now. Kazan is founded near the ruins of Basra. The Golden Horde slays the defenders of Mameluke Ascalon, taking the city. Keshik armies are just insane! We keep it; it is not suffering from the same cultural pressure Basra was. An overzealous Keshik spots Baghdad to the south; uh-oh, not only are more longbows moving up, but also Baghdad is now defended by a veteran Swiss Mercenary. Buy Jihad from the Cordovans for 160 gold +WM.

IBT: The Germans sign the Magyars to an MA against us. Oh well, one more steppe city and some slaves for the Horde.

Turn 9: Vezpren and Stuttgart fall to the horde. Neither city is worth anything, but since we are going for domination. Antalya is next.

Turn 10: Kill 5-6 Assassins or so. The Golden Horde is on the road to Baghdad. The people of that wondrous city can hear the thunder of hooves fast approaching, and pray desperately to Allah for salvation. But no salvation is coming, for the Mongols are demons! MUWHAHAHAHHAHAAHHA. Ahem. Antalya is attacked. One Keshik dies, the next slays a pike and reveals…and unfortified Swiss Merc. Uh-oh. He slays another Keshik before falling, but we capture the size-11 city. Iron, Horses, and 50 Gold to the Kievan Rus for Code of Laws and WM. From the way their Berserks are acting, the Rus are probably at war with the Turks as well (they are polite towards us as well) We now have a complete strategic picture; although this will make the game run even slower. The map reveals that the Poles have no more cities in range right now, so we might as well take peace. Peace and 95 gold to the Poles gets Map Making and Early Siege craft for us.

Notes: Doc, this was a real blast to play, and probably the best of the middle ages modified maps so far just because it is so different from a normal game on this map. We will definitely want to keep up the pressure on the Turks and the Mamelukes. These are the big dogs, and we want to link up our burgeoning empire at some point. Baghdad and Medina are all that stands between the Mameluke Core, and us and we have already reached the Turkish second ring. The Turks are a lot bigger, and although they don’t have any were near the troops that the Mamelukes have they are definitely still a threat, although I have yet to see any Siphai.

The Apocalypse has begun! (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Temujin_of_the_Mongols,_1170_AD.SAV)

:thumbsup:

Re: tech pace

I made a couple of test runs, and in none of those the AI advanced so fast; could be because there are 4 strong Catholic Civs (Poland cascaded to the Bayeux Tapestry when Regensburg built the HRE, and the HRE wasn't built later then ususal; and they also completed Notre Dame, which also means they for sure had a GA), but IMHO mainly because the major powers were at peace with each others all the time. Usually we just see Pikes in the Abbassid core, with Spears elsewhere.

Re: Tech Trades
When you bought CB, did this reset the research on Chinese Admin? I still haven't figured out when exactly that bug hits.

Re: Assassins
They hurt :) Pretty realistic, right?
But since the White Huns (most likely Mongols) at that time defeated the muslimic Moghul Empire, I thought we should have access to Arab Learning as well.

Re: Armies
Keshik Armies are incredible; however, given the limited supply of Keshiks we have, I think it's better to form no more than one on each theatre, and make VC armies after that. With the Blitz, we should get enough Leaders...

Re: Mameluk
IIRC, the Fatimids became the Mameluks later; the Mongol capture of Bagdhad lead to the collapse of the Abbassid Empire, but the Mameluks were the only nation that defeated us!

Destroy the two ‘Great Distance’ units holding us in. I find the animation pretty hilarious
You mean the jumping Hwacha? I used William during early testing, now that looked weird :crazyeye:

this was a real blast to play
Glad you like it; I also had a lot of fun with that Blitzkrieg.

A technical hint: You can link to the jps (just type and the closing tag); maybe you know that already, and the upload server was down, but just in case you weren't aware of this.

Over to Vizurok.
[i]Be careful with our Keshiks, that's about the only crucial mistake one can make! And don't hesitate to mobilize...

Important: THIS GAME IS 1.22!

BTW, what's the VP score?

A note for Lurkers as well:
I tried to make it as much historically (geographically isn't feasible) correct as possible, but I have problems to get more information here. If someone knows better city names, and could tell me how the 'Northern Horde' was called (I know the colors mean directions, with the Golden Horde the Western one), please help me out...

We have around 6500 VP's if I remember correctly, and the Abbassids are in the lead with around 8500. We may hit the VP limit before domination; even with the point values lowered, those Turkish and Abbassid size 12 cities are worth quite a few points. We are 3/2 in terms of land and pop, with the Byzantines at around 10/19 or so (I may have reversed the values, so be sure to check).

Re Armies: I'm not so sure about that; Keshik armies can actually attack more times (4) than three individual Keshiks can, and are far more difficult to kill. A vassal cav army would be much more vunerable and have one less move. I'd say we need to see just how many leaders end up getting, though.

Is Bede starting the other roster??

romeo, judging from your last post iin the magyar thread I was under the impression you will start it.
The first 99 turns are no great deal, just build a couple of Spears, Settlers and Vasal Cav. Don't buy maps (saves time at large), and be careful with unit support.

Btw, what are 'Brownies'? :) (I'm sure I understood what you meant, though)


Gogf, Vizurok: Please check in. If you cannot join, please post that as well; we'll have to discuss then if we only fill one roster, or try to get more participants.

Doc, I would start the other roster but I am unsure how to create a link thread. The whole message board process is very new to me. Is their a thread that tells us how to get started on creating a thread?
I have also had my game time greatly limited by real life. The unexpected is becoming very common around here.
BTW, Brownies are a rech chocolate cake very common in the Midwest USA. They have about 500 calories per piece, if made correctly, and are very sweet. Most people cannot resist them, and it is a very common analogy where I live to say like a fat kid on a pan of brownies. If a person likes brownies, it is almost like drugs, for what they will do to get, keep and eat as many as they can.
I've been known to attack a pan of brownies before, usually after physical labor or sports practice.

I'll take it now. Vizurok, are you still interested?

Doc: Checking in as you requested. What was your technique to delay the Mongol start? Is it feasible to use this mod but play as another civ having to fend off these hordes?

I'm not on 1.22 (we're using 1.15 for the AOD SG I'm in), so I'll just lurk during this one. But I'll be around if you want to chat during it.

I believe Doc just gave them no good units until Keshiks. Not sure though.

The Mongols are trapped for the first 100 turns in their two starting cities. Since Tundra is impassible in this scenerio, it was easy to set up the cities so that there is only one route out of the ice. Until turn 100, the mongols are sealed behind two "Great Distance" 1.30.0 units. On turn 100, both cities generate a bombardment unit (a jumping Kamikaze H'wacha in this case, which has pretty hilarious animation), essentially a cruise missile with a bombardment of 100, lethal bombard, and a high enough rate of fire to kill the great distance units. The Mongols themselves control two of these units as well, making exterminating them totally impractical. You can play as any other civ; the main differance the Mongol prescance makes is weakening the superpower Eastern Civs, especially the Turks and Abassids, who now have to defend their flanks from the horde.

Doc, in future round we may want to go down to 5 turns each; they've already done so in the other game. What do you think?

Agree on the 5 turns where appropriate (no need to play only a couple of peaceful recovery turns); I did need some days for my 10...will upload soon.

Gobi: Most of the time went into making the Mongols working for the AI; for a human, it would have been easy to just agree on not moving until 1120. But the AI will wreck havoc as well in turn 100 (which is a bit too early, but there was no way to further delay it).
The general idea is:
Mongols are blocked in 2 isolated towns until turn 100. Keshiks are really strong (especially they have 'Blitz'), but cannot be built - instead they are autoproduced by 3 Small Wonders, 2 of those are also FP equivalents (one already placed on the map).
The best unit you can build are Vasal Cavalry at 4.2.2, which are also enslaved by Keshiks.
Mongols have their own flavor tree, and a Gov of their own - Khanate (similar to Fascism). Most Wonders are now Gov-specific.

Most elaborate - Very Creative!

Somehow I don't think we could have released the Conquests version of Middle Ages just like this however!

I'm glad to see we now have Middle Ages games with the Mongols in them. As it should be. Sounds like winning as Kievan Rus in this one would be most tricky!

Well, I don't think the AI would play as them correctly. They would through everything they had at the great distance unit, and then kill themselves in the assault. At least that's my guess.

@gogf: No, they won't. Be assured, I tested it. The AI does not attack full HP units of such a high defense. With Def=10, they try it. Def=30, no. AI vs. Barbs isn't completely stupid, unlike Barbarians attacking everything on the NW-SE axis.
The tricky part was to get the AI using the Cruise Missile - but the solution is the shield cost of the target; must be a lot higher than the Cruise Missile (used 100x).

@Gobi: Agreed, especially the 2 city locations look rather odd on the map; would have been rather confusing to the non-fanatics ;)

Mongols 1170AD

Inherited – looks fine.

IBT:
Loose a VC to an Abbassid, and a Keshik to a Turkish Assassin.
Merv (Library) -> VC

Turn 1: 1173AD
Slay a number of Assassins. Capture Turkish Mugla (the Rus killed some defenders during the interturn). Army kills a Swiss at Bagdhad (I hope the Abbassids have no Iron, thus killing them one by one should work).
IBT:
Denizli flips back; only 1 VC lost.

Turn 2: 1176AD
Recapture Denizli. Capture Iznik.
IBT: Now that is ugly – Antalya flips back. No Keshiks lost, but the auto-defenders are Sipahi!

Turn 3: 1179AD
Recapture Antalya. Move every single Keshik out of towns. Magyar stack of assorted trash approaches.
IBT: Couple of attacks on stray VCs, no losses. A lot of Magyars show up.

Turn 4: 1182AD

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bagdhad.jpg

(lost some VCs anyway)

IBT:
Someone signs the Norwegians against us
2 Keshiks arrive

Turn 5: 1185AD
Make peace with the Abbassids for Assassination, have to throw in 250gp. The Turks have captured some Byzantine cities and have Iron again; we should concentrate on them now.
Make peace with the Magyars (costs us Early Siege), their Swordsmen stacks would have simply overwhelmed us.
IBT:
…and the Swedes join the dogpile; a more serious threat, they have some cities pretty close.
Our 1st Assassin finishes.

Turn 6: 1188AD
Just when you need it:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Jochi.jpg

…and a Vassal Cav arrises as well.
Capture Salonika. Comes with 6 Slaves and a Hospital (though the later doesn’t produce culture; wonder if it will once the majority is Mongol).
Capture Bonn (that German town next to Merw).
Found Almarikh to replace Bagdhad.

Turn 7: 1191AD
North:
Capture Edrine, destroy a Treb; never seen the game thus advanced at that time.

South:
Capture the former Byzantine town of Riza, spawn MGL Chagatai. Will reach and pillage the Turkish Iron next turn.

Make peace with Germany, 220gp get us Medieval Combat. Make peace with Castile, they have nothing to give.

Turn 8: 1194AD
North:
Slay Swedish Settler Combo. Form Jochi’s Army. 1st attack on Patzinak.

South:
Form Chagatai’s Vasall Army. Pillage the Turkish Iron.

IBT:
Byzantines capture Bingol, the Turkish Iron city.

Turn 9: 1197AD
North:
Capture Patzinak, loose one Keshik.

South:
Golden Horde captures Ankara without losing a single HP.

IBT:
Turkish Assassin kills Keshik. Longbow retreats another one.
Byzantines help us by throwing us out, a number of units get a lift to Ankara.

Turn 10: 1200AD
South:
Capture Istanbul.

North:
Slay 2 Longbows and an Assassin.

Notes:
Never garrison any city with the slightest flip risk with Keshiks; if redlined Keshiks need Barracks to heal, that already is a gambit. Never attack a Vet merc in a city with anything but Armies.
Chinese Administration will come in next turn, switch all builds in remote cities to Postal Stations, and whip them where possible. We need the culture. And, once the few Temples and Libraries are finished, mobilize.
Strategy: Try to get a few more Turkish cities, including Ghuzz, make peace for techs, and wait for the Byz/ Rus to eliminate the Turks.
Maybe try to get Swedish Linkoping, we need the Furs.
Then, build up some forces, and either get those annoying Byz cities in our first ring, or fight the Abbassids again.

Score:
13855 Mongols, 11070 Turks, 10180 Abbssids; couple of Civs in the 8000-9000VPs.

5/5 pop/area, with the Byzantines at 13/10

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/F31.jpg

At least, unit support won’t kill us…
(VCs don’t show up when they were enslaved instead of built)

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Temujin_of_the_Mongols_1200AD.zip)

Now, Vizurok?

This game would need at least one more participant!

I'm here... ready to rumble!
Shall I take the game?

um, yeah. You've been up for awhile now.

I might be interested.
BUT I have never played any SG before and I am usually playing at Monarch/Emperor level.
Any special modifs that need downloading ?

Hi Loulong,
I would be very happy if you'd join us.
What you need are the files attached to the 1st post (pedia/pediaicons/biq, + a readme).
Never having played in a SG is no valid excuse to not participate, nor is Emperor level. :)
May I suggest you get the files, then download the starting save and play a couple of turns to familiarize with the scenario? Be prepared, it plays very 'fast and furious' (to quote Bede).
If you like it, welcome aboard.

Downloaded. Will practice and let you know.

Sorry for my poor ersatz of excuses :blush: :p

OK, count me in !
And be prepared for newbie questions !

I have just finished a WWII Pacific PBEM so I think I know what "fast and furious" means. Of course your Keshik armies look REALLY strong !

Welcome!
You're automatically up.
Did you play some turns with the starting save? I'd really recommend it, it'll show you how to deal with the Assassins...

Couple of notes:
Don't attack fortified healthy Swissies with lone Keshiks, we cannot afford to loose them. Wait for the Armies.
Flip risk is extremely high. Cannot prevent it, but make sure to not garrison anything with Keshiks or Armies.
You will learn to mobilize with the next Tech; could be a good idea, and Postal Station are MIL, thus can still be built.
Strategy: Read the 2 reports, IMHO everything is said there.

Roster:
DeceasedHorse - on deck!
Doc Tsiolkovski - "just" played...
LouLong -up!
Vizurok - skipped for now

Up means I am next ?

"up" means you should be already sitting at your machine and playing ;) .

Blush. OK, just downloaded it. Will play for 10 turns later tonight.
It will be "up" tomorrow ;-)

2 good turns and 9 turns of hell !

You won't be happy with me I guess. I mean you will be very angry.

I think Mongols had overdeveloped and considering the tough rules for diplomacy and a (IMHO) a bad nice (maybe that is just the level), it was difficult to do much better albeit I probably did not play too well either.

Turn 1 : 1200 AD

4 VC attack and destroy (1 VC down) Sinope (Turkish).
Magyars appear with some settler/spear pair. Looks like they did not expand too much.
Rushed some temples in Mesopotamia

AI : A spay (Turkish probably) kills a VC near ex-Sinope
fights between Turks and Byzantines :)
A Magyar stack of 30 appears

Turn 2 : 1203 AD

Chinese Administration --> Khanlig

Switch many cities to Postal
Golden Horde attacks Zondulag and captures it (kills 1 pike + 1 sipahi, captures 8 workers + catapult !).
An Abbasid spy spotted. Ask Abbasids to retreat --> war. (I think I had to do that, didn't I ?). A Keshik dies attacking the spy :crazyeye:
Mistake : thought I would get rid of Polish isolated town(Pleven) and attack with Keshik (dies !) and forgot I had already passed the turn for the two VC nearby moved in position former turn :(
I believe Turks to be quite weak so Jochi's army attack Konya (2 pikes killed but rest remains and kills a keshik).

AI turn : Abbasids sign in Franks against me. Swiss Abbasids appear near Mesopotamia.

Hey, what's that - you're posting the 2 good turns, and run away ;) ?

But I fear the worst...
Mistake : thought I would get rid of Polish isolated town

Yep. We had a peace treaty for about 4 more turns...and Poland is pretty strong.

Btw, there was no need to declare on the Abbassids (though I think that one is fine, depending on if we get at least on Army down S).

And, we now have razed a Turkish and Abbassid town at least.

Turn 3 : 1206 AD

Norwegians propose only peace : I have to refuse IIRC so nothing.
End of Golden Age
Chagatai's VC army attacks Khazar, kills one pike then retreats (badly damaged). Golden Hord attacks Izmit, kills one Swiss but down to 3 HP ! Gets VC attacks, dies without hurting a spear.
Keshik en route to Turkish lands diverted to Mesopotamia.
One keshik there kills two spies (Abbasids probably) and gets two VC, 3 more spies killed by VCs.

AI : 8 spies attack Almarikh. Kill 1 keshik + 2 VC. Other Swiss appear.
Turks destroy Chagatai's army then recapture Istanbul ! :mad:

Turn 4 : 1209 AD

Rereating and trying to reorganize.

AI : Abbasids sign on Magyar !!!!
Patzinak revolts to Turkey with a few troops...

Turn 5 : 1212 AD

Jochi's army tries to recapture Patzinak but many Magyar horsemen on the way. Eventually a keshik diverted to recapture the city.
Most of our troops there try to weaken the Magyar main SoD.

AI : Sweden approaches Torun while Polish inquisitors are a real pain near Pleven. Poland starts Hanseatic League.
Abbasids sign on Bulgars and send 5 spies to attack, killing 1 VC and weakening other troops.


Turn 6 : 1215 AD

Kill a few spies (random hunt) and a Swiss but loses a Keshik stupidly (an invisible spy was on the way). Kill lots of Magyars but not enough.

AI : new Magyar stacks nearing on me....

Turn 7 : 1218 AD

Antalya revolts to Turks :(
Zonguldiak revolts to Turks :mischief:
Golden Hord dies attacking a spear in Istanbul !!!!!!! :crazyeye:
Attack on Ghuzz (as the capital, I thought its loss would limit culture flipping) fails completely, none of my units retreat and no kills on their side. These units would have been better off doing police jobs in Turkish conquered cities.

I abandon Torun. No troops in the North (2 keshiks on the way), a few berserkirs, so I leave the area.

AI : Magyars attack Patzinak where my army was defending with many VC. I thought it was strong enough and would generate some more VCs being attacked. The Magyars have few losses, capture the city, thus destroying the army I should have moved back (but it is too late), 2 keshik and 7 VCs....

Turn 8 : 1221 AD

2 keshiks arrive, with VC help they kill Swedish berserkirs and longbows (but one keshik down).
Weakening the Magyars gets me a leader --> Vc army.

Turn 9 : 1224 AD

Salonika revolts
I abandon Mugla (no troops left, Polish inquistors all over the place) and Edrine (too many Magyars and my troops are much better in offense than defense: learnt the hard way the former turn).
I recapture Salonika.

Turn 10 :

Almarikh captured by Abbasids (their Swiss seem unstoppable, I have lost many CVs and a few keshiks against them).
Peace with Poles !
Istanbul conquered by Byzantines who are the great beneficiaries of these 10 turns.

Sorry :( :blush:

SAV file here.

As a summary, the map has changed but not in the good way. End of Golden Age means less production, revolts means more cultural weakness, few troops left (some cities are hardly defended). Probably the 10 worst turns for the Mongols so far. And I am largely responsible. Just check the histogram.

I really wanted to close the Turkish "gap" but that will be for someone else to do.

Ok, flips happen. Military losses happen, especially loosing Keshiks hurts.
But sorry, I completely fail to see why you went to war with anyone else but the Turks before they were finished off, especially since you trashed our Reputation that way, and especially not with 2 of the 3 strongest Civs...
:eek:

Are we mobilized? How fast is tech pace?

DH, maybe make peace with the Turks at once. Get Polearms and whatever they offer. Get peace with the Swedes and Magyars, even give away cities. Concentrate entirely on the Abbassids, those are our core lands. And speed up research if possible, we need the 2nd FP; I originally planned to build it in Constantinople, but e.g. Tarsus would work as well.

And LouLong: Don't worry, we're playing SGs to learn something - even if that is to get out of the Dodge ;) . But seriously, Reputation is incredibly important...

Poles are at peace.

I did not think of Mobilization, always forget it.
Declaring war on the Poles was my mistake. Did not check enough or I would have seen we had a peace treaty on for 4 more turns.

And I believed from the initial posts, we had to ask people out of our territory and could not accept peace except if they were giving something to us.

Did not want war with the Abbasids at all, nor with Magyars.

EDIT : D**N, just realized I mixed rules of a PBEM with this one. Do you want me to play these turns again then since I know I don't have to ask them to leave ?

No, we'll live with that. Good thing is, we are absolutely safe behind our "great Distance" units ;)

We simply need to get out of all wars in the North, even leave the Turks alive (they will be eliminated soon by the Rus or Byzantium anyway, so the flips will stop), catch up in Techs (Pikes!), and :hammer: the Abbassids. Our Capital is there, and those cities will be really productive.
Only real problem I see is that we'll hit the VP limit before we reach Domination, if we have to recapture every city a couple of times.

Sorry if I'm missing something, but where is the .sav file??

Err... checked. It is too big to attach normally (that's why it failed to attach in a previous post).

OK, just used the Upload feature:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Temujin of the Mongols_1227 AD.zip

LouLong:
You should upload it (use the 'upload file' link at the bottom of a page), then link to the upload folder (don't use quick reply, go advanced), instead of attaching the save.

Man it seems everything I do in this succession game goes wrong. Spaces pb corrected.
Doc, you don't regret my joining lol

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Temujin_of_the_Mongols_1227AD.zip

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Temujin_of_the_Mongols,_1242_AD.SAV) DoctT_101D_A Metaphor too far!

Sabutai: Take the ship out of the asteroid field.
Admiral Timur: Yes, sir!

<Sabutai bows before a holographic projector. The transmission comes in: It is Sabutai’s dark master, The Emperor>

Emperor Temujin: Rise, my friend
Sabutai: Yes, my master.
Emperor: I sense that something is amiss. What is it, my apprentice?
Sabutai: The war against the rebels goes…poorly, my master.
Emperor: Explain.
Sabutai: Our Legions to the south have all but been wiped out. The Byzantine Empire has taken advantage of our assault to expand its control to the point where consolidating our territory would require war with them, something that we could only do successfully after decades of buildup, if then. The Magyar hordes are marching through our lands at will, and we have nothing to stop them. Of our great armies, only one of slave horsemen remains combat effective. We have no real production base, and the empire of the White Huns is crippled by corruption.
Emperor: I am…displeased.
Sabutai: All is not lost, my master. If we could perhaps turn some of the other rebels to our side, they could be powerful allies…
Emperor: They shall come to you, my friend.
Sabutai: Master?
Emperor: I find you lack of faith disturbing. Continue your operations.
Sabutai: Yes, my lord.

Preturn: Diplo check-The Bulgars, and the most imminent threat, the Magyars, refuse to talk. The Turks will give three or so techs for peace as well as significant amounts of gold and gpt. France wants tribute for peace, the same with the Abassids. Sign a peace treaty with the Turks, they give us 257 gold, 15 gpt, Medicine, Polearms, the Middle Class, and Seamanship. 200 gold to Sweden for peace. 150 Gold, the Middle class, and Peace get us Improved Siege Craft from the Danes. 40 gold gets us peace with France (We do NOT need any more civs dogpiling us!) Whip Postal Stations in Bonn, Rjazan, and New Medina, and a Town Hall in Kazan. I will be mobilizing next turn, gotta get these peaceful improvements built before hand. Only city in imminent danger is Aydin, with a regular Magyar sword. I wake up the vassal cav and attack him, losing 2 hp but winning and promoting to Veteran.

IBT: 44 Magyar Spears, swords, and archers surround the totally undefended city of Konya.

Turn 1: Medieval Combat gets us peace and 15 gold (all they had) from the Magyars. While they will MDI now, hopefully they’ll go after someone else. Fire all specialists in the now-non resisting northern cities, forcing me to raise science to 10% but actually allowing some growth and hopefully production. Bulgars continue to ignore our envoy; they do not appear to be a threat anyway. I try and get an ROP with the Byzantines so I could send our army and, uh, two Keshiks down to help but we do not have an embassy with them, and per the variant rules cannot establish one. With nothing better to do, our army will be sent to attack Great Bulgar. Mobilize for war, mass switch over from temples and post offices to barracks and pikemen. Production up north remains negligible; down south is underdeveloped but we will get a few pikes on-line fairly soon. Merv hits 17 spt while mobilized. We have eight workers trapped behind both Turkish and Byzantine lines, in Ankara. The city has no garrison or culture. I believe that I can get them south into our territory near Riza, however. One positive aspect of our current situation is that turns are a lot shorter than they used to be 

IBT: Rurik (Kievan Rus) extorts horses from us. I have no choice but give in to his demands; he will annihilate us. The Abbassids move a catapult and a regular Swiss Pike to lay siege to Hattin. Ascalon flips and take a couple of units with it.

Turn 2: Merv finishes its assassin, starts on pikes. It will be a three-turn pike factory for the foreseeable future; at 17 spt it is wasting huge amounts of shields but we need defenders critically. Spot two Bulgar Swordsmen, INCLUDING ONE CARRYING A RELIC moving against Konya, which is till guarded only by a catapult. Vassal cav down south runs into at least three assassins while trying to reinforce Hattin. Vassal cav kill two; but there is at least one more on the road to Hattin. The vassal cavalry in Hattin faces a dilemma; attack the defense-5 Swiss pikeman, as well as possibly losing a hp to defensive bombard, or defending against a three-attack unit. I decide to leave it fortified. A pikman of our own is on the way, but the spy blockade may or may not delay him even further. Upgrade two of the spears in Merv to pikes.

IBT: Kazan falls to Ansar Warriors, and is quickly reinforced by Swiss Mercs. The Swiss Pike outside Hattin does not attack, but an Assassin does. The vassal cav somehow manages to defeat the Mameluke assassins, going down to 2 hp. New Medina Riots. Bulgars swords advance en masse near Konya, killing a vassal cav that was moving to reinforce the city. The vassal cav kills one sword and redlines another before falling, however. 13 Bulgar units surround Konya now.

Turn 3: The Abassids have our pathetic remnants of an army down south are cut off due to the Abbassid control of the road network and their spear and pikes garrisoning key positions. Two 2/4-vet vassal cavs cut their way out of the trap, trying to escape to New Medina, which is defended by a single Assassin. The Assassin does a quick recon run, and doesn’t spot any Assassins. I have pikes on the way to N. Medina; if it can hold out for a turn or two more we may be able to secure it permanently. Hattin is probably doomed, as the vet pike moving to reinforce it got cut off by an Abassid Swiss Mercenary. I am fairly confident that we can hold New Damascus and N. Mosul. Abandon Konya; the plan is to try and take Great Bulgar before the Bulgar hordes regroup and move north. Army whacks a Bulgarian spear on the road to Great Bulgar. Elite Keskik wastes a Bulgar sword in the city, enslaving a VC. VC attacks but is forced to retreat.

IBT: New Medina falls to the Mameluke Ansars. More catapults and Swiss Mercs move up to besiege Hattin. The Pike that was to reinforce Hatting falls to Assassins. The two cities spit out two badly needed Keshiks. Theodora kicks out our poor slaves.

Turn 4: Great Bulgar falls to our armies and Keshiks. The Bulgars will now accept peace, straight up now. Sign it. Our only hope down south is to hold the line at New Damascus and New Mosul.

IBT: Denzili flips to the Turks. One VC lost. The Magyar SoD’s continue whaling on the Turks. Turks build an embassy with us; great.

Turn 5: All quiet on the northern front. Denzili will probably fall to the Magyars soon. As a result of signing peace with the Bulgars, we are now de-mobilized. Almost all of our spears are upgraded to pikes now, at the cost of most of our treasury. I think we need to have a strategy meeting at this point, so I’ll stop here. Our “army” now consists of 13 Pikes, 4 Keshiks (3 in the north, only one in the south), the vassal cavalry army, 3 VC, and our king units. Ouch. We are weak to everyone except for the Turks and the Castillians. We are behind on tech, but the four techs the Turks so nicely contributed have helped in that regard. We are not mobilized as I said; we need to decide whether to try and get some Town Halls set up in the north and maybe get a little production out of them versus allowing our remaining cities in the south to churn out military faster. Right now, other than Rizan, no city in the north makes more than two spt, and our culture is negligible. We do not have the military to garrison heavily enough to prevent flips, and practically everyone is Religious and can build cheap temples anyway.

In terms of victory conditions, there is no way in hell that we could possibly win a domination victory. Winning on Victory Points remains a possibility; last I checked we have a good 6k or so lead over the nearest competitor, the Turks who are going to be wiped out anyway. I can take another five if neccessary, but we need to do some planning, Doc, and you are alot better at analyzing corruption and that sort of thing than I am.