SGOTM2 Game Thread

Welcome to your game thread for SGOTM2-Germany

Here is the start position.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM2-start-position.jpg

Each team has their own save file. Please download and play from the correct save. If you use the wrong save the server will not accept your submission. Also, please make sure that the software version is correct. PM me immediately if it is not.

You can download your save file >>HERE<<. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm_submission_list.php)

The Roster
Annka
I.Larkin
King Alexander
mabellino

To the team: I'm away from home, returning Monday. I.Larkin returns on Sunday. Any objections If I play last and I.Larkin before me?
I'd settle right where the settler is. We have 2 BG's(our worker wouldn't need to cross the river). I believe we need a couple of warriors for exploring, and a warrior to defend Berlin(for the fear of barbarians). Berlin would need a granary and our settler factory could begin it's production. I'd like to hear what the other members suggest. Have to go now.

Hi teamies!
Settle in position looks good to me. I'm not sure about the 100% to Iron Working. I think we will need a granary at this site because there don't seem to be any bonus food resources. I'm thinking research pottery then IW? What do you guys think?
I can play at any point in the roster but think that the first turn should go to Ankka since our name honours him!
Are we going for the variant? I've won a couple of diplo but only by building the UN. Never had chance to capture it before! Can't wait to test out those Panzers.
One last question.... what time zones are you guys in? I'm currently GMT+1 (BST).
Mabellino

Hi teamies!
One last question.... what time zones are you guys in? I'm currently GMT+1 (BST).
Mabellino
GMT+2(Greece).

EDIT: I also think that Ankka(as the most experienced and best player of the team), should begin the first turns. I'm going to follow his suggestions every time: don't forget that this is my first SGOTM, and I've only been introduced in SG's recently(currently playing the TDG in my signature).
I think it'll be good if we posted our ideas/strategies/suggestions/questions before playing, so the the other members can give some advice.
What does "variant" mean? Please describe it briefly.

Hi teamies!
Settle in position looks good to me. I'm not sure about the 100% to Iron Working. I think we will need a granary at this site because there don't seem to be any bonus food resources. I'm thinking research pottery then IW? What do you guys think?
I can play at any point in the roster but think that the first turn should go to Ankka since our name honours him!
Are we going for the variant? I've won a couple of diplo but only by building the UN. Never had chance to capture it before! Can't wait to test out those Panzers.
One last question.... what time zones are you guys in? I'm currently GMT+1 (BST).
Mabellino
I am at Atlanta, USA (now in New York). So let me play 4 th. I think IW 100% better because of our SGM1 experience. Also, we can get pottery from sombody else or from goody Hutt. Third, I calculated tjat we lost 22 shield and 44 Gold due to Granary in our SGM1. (akots). Build order is Warrior, Warrior Settler is the best. Next barraks or granary.
Ivan

I think we can finish well before Patzers.

Well, as I explained to Ivan, my lousy 56k line can't upload that often, and I'm waiting for his e-mail by PM. I'd like also the e-mails from the rest of the team, in case we have to skip someone. You have no idea how sad I'm feeling about not being able to upload myself(and a little embarrasment).
I can't really say something more on my plans, since the game hasn't yet started and Ankka has yet to post. I think, we better wait for Ankka to make his presence.

There is no need to wait for Ankka. Ivan could start for instance. It would give you something to talk about when Ankka gets here.

K.A. I'm not sure what your problem is with a 56K line. The saves will be less than a 100K for most of the game and you can upload them to the GOTM Server using the link in my sig. You would need to maintain a connection for 30 seconds or less.

There is no need to wait for Ankka. Ivan could start for instance. It would give you something to talk about when Ankka gets here.

K.A. I'm not sure what your problem is with a 56K line. The saves will be less than a 100K for most of the game and you can upload them to the GOTM Server using the link in my sig. You would need to maintain a connection for 30 seconds or less.
I am not at home and can't play now. If ankka will not pop up mabellino can start...

Discussion.

Here are some thoughts about future discussions. I think when player get *.sav file the most active participants should be player, pre-player and post-player. Pre-player always have an idea for 10-20 turns ahead when he plays and want their realization; he/she may be annoyed when player crush his ideas. Post-player also expect that he will get “something good” to play. It would be nice if pre-player submit his thoughts about what to do next 10 turns and post-player after looking that and *.sav file submit his suggestions about what he want to get reasonably. If all three (player, pre-player and post-player) disagree with each other they can discuss things before… I think, player reserve his rights to play the way he wants his 10 turns, but really good progress might be if chain is consistent at least at three points (thirty turns). Also we should somehow decide about how to discuss our general strategy. Most of our decisions an intuitive and discussion should reveal logistics of this decisions.

I'm here, but I can't take it either. Other SG's too. :undecide:


And I live in GMT +2 area.

Do you guys want to wait till everyone's available before we start? This will be my first SG and I'm a bit nervous of being the first to start.
I can play most evenings (apart from Mondays) and all day at weekends but I need to finish GOTM31 pretty soon.. I've also signed up for Ainwood's training game. My understanding of SG's is that they start off quite quickly then as the turns get longer most people want to have finished it.

I'm really looking forward to playing this one, never played as the Germans before! (not too keen on Mil trait)

As long as I don't start, I don't really care who starts. (I started up in SGOTM1)


And mabellino: don't be nervous, everyone makes mistakes too. :)

That settles it then... I'm off!
Going to settle in place and have a look around then I'll post what I find.

See you soon. ;)

Good luck. :)

OK after some minor technical glitches I managed to start the game. I've only played the first turn because some new discoveries might change our game plan.

I settled in place, build warrior in 5 turns and set research to IW in 40turns @20%. Bumping science upto 100% still means 40turns so I've left it for now with the intention of checking every turn when roads and more citizens are present.

I checked F10 and our opponents are: Russia, France, England, Japan, India and China.
We have no luxuries immediately evident but we do ahve two bonus food tiles (Game and wheat).
I've instructed the worker to road then mine the tile to the E of the start location.
See attached pictures. Red arrows indicate tiles I think we should irrigate.

I settled in place, build warrior in 5 turns and set research to IW in 40turns @20%. Bumping science upto 100% still means 40turns so I've left it for now with the intention of checking every turn when roads and more citizens are present.

Wise decision! Don't forget to check F11 as well.

I checked F10 and our opponents are: Russia, France, England, Japan, India and China.
We have no luxuries immediately evident but we do ahve two bonus food tiles (Game and wheat).
I've instructed the worker to road then mine the tile to the E of the start location.
See attached pictures. Red arrows indicate tiles I think we should irrigate.
Will yo Irrigate road Game next? Do you agree Warrior Warrior, Settler buildup?
What we will do if Ankka will not manage to open SAV file?
Ivan.

Are we playing on Vanilla civ? I doubt I'll have problems with the save...


I agree on the plan. A few exploring warriors, then a settler, then perhaps a granary if we get one. I seem to have forgotten the techs Germany gets in the beginning.

Ah, remembered them. Bronze Working and Warrior Code. So no Granary for a while... settler it is after those warriors.

I think we can just road Game, and chop/irrigate later, when we will build granary.
With road Game will give 2s2f2g as mined BG.

Are we playing on Vanilla civ? I doubt I'll have problems with the save...


I agree on the plan. A few exploring warriors, then a settler, then perhaps a granary if we get one. I seem to have forgotten the techs Germany gets in the beginning.

Ah, remembered them. Bronze Working and Warrior Code. So no Granary for a while... settler it is after those warriors.
Good!, so will you play after mabellino?

Hello :)

Just a quick reminder: do not forget to upload your saves using Alan's Surprise (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm.php).
You can also download the files and view the current status from this page (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm_submission_list.php) (you will also find the links in the maintenance thread and in MB's signature).

So, it is no longer necessary to upload the saves through the game threads -but you can do it if you want, of course.

Hi guys. This is just a gentle reminder that the other teams threads are off limits. It is not permitted to browse your opponents threads this month, which is a change from last month.

With the software changes on the server it is absolutely trivial for the staff to detect who is browsing which thread, even in invisible mode. :scan:

To our team: I say let's still attach the saves in this thread too, as it is used in all other SG's too, it helps to make it simpler. At least to me. Do you guys agree?


Mad-bax: I must admit I browsed the beginning of another team's thread, but only the part where they were reporting that they're there etc. I did NOT read nything about turns they had played. Just in case you (or someone else) had noticed.

So, the play order is:

mabellino - currently playing
Ankka - on deck
King Alexander
I.Larkin

Let's try and keep the save going on at a good rate, about 2-3 days per player. Is this ok with everyone?

And if next player doesn't say "got it" within 24 hours of the last save, (s)he'll be skipped.


Does this suit everyone?

I've played my 10 turns. Here's a summary:

Score=45
F11 stats: 1st in GNP, Mfg Goods, Land area, Literacy, Pollution, Life expect. and productivity. We are currently last in Population.
We will research Iron Working in 30turns at 10% (5gpt) or 25 turns at 100% (0gpt)
We have 2 warriors (1 exploring and one for MP) with an archer in 4 turns.
Pop has just grown to 2 and border expansion means we now have wheat and game.
Warrior 1 has been exploring along the mountains and has just spotted a herd of elephants near a river to the NE. We also have spices to the S,S,SW of Berlin. The tile to the E of Berlin has been roaded and mined and the worker has just moved onto the game square.
A settler would be produced in 6 turns but Berlin won't grow for 10 so I opted to build an archer in the mean time.
Our city doesn't appear in the top 5 list (now there's a surprise!)

I think immediate priorities are to increase food production and meet some other civs.
I've uploaded the save using the submissions page but here's a copy as well.

Mabellino

mabellino. The first player plays 20 turns. You need to play till the end of the 3000BC turn. :)

oops my mistake! :blush:
Does it look like it's going ok though? do you agree with what I've done so far? This is my first SG, sorry about the newb mistake!

Ps.. I've also looked at 1 or 2 team threads to see if they had started but that was on sat and I didn't read any strategy discussions!

20 turns to follow...

EDIT:
Ok here is the save from 3000BC http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Ankka_SG002_BC3000_01.SAV

Our score is 69 and we are the top city in F11 as all the other civs are pop2 and we are pop3
We will have a settler in 3 turns and I've spotted a nice site near the ivory with a flood plain for a second city. I haven't met anyone else yet but am exploring to the NW and W. Feel free to change directions if you want.
Iron working in 20 turns at 6gpt or 18turns at -1 gpt.

EDIT 2: Just looked at the game rules and found that the use of governors isn't allowed. I let our governor emphasise production for all cities, Ankka you might want to fix that! And send that warrior exploring!
We have a barracks by the way! I really need to think before I post! :blush:

Here's a screenie:

Not bad... :thumbsup:

I've played my 10 turns. Here's a summary:

Score=45
F11 stats: 1st in GNP, Mfg Goods, Land area, Literacy, Pollution, Life expect. and productivity. We are currently last in Population.
We will research Iron Working in 30turns at 10% (5gpt) or 25 turns at 100% (0gpt)
We have 2 warriors (1 exploring and one for MP) with an archer in 4 turns.
Pop has just grown to 2 and border expansion means we now have wheat and game.
Warrior 1 has been exploring along the mountains and has just spotted a herd of elephants near a river to the NE. We also have spices to the S,S,SW of Berlin. The tile to the E of Berlin has been roaded and mined and the worker has just moved onto the game square.
A settler would be produced in 6 turns but Berlin won't grow for 10 so I opted to build an archer in the mean time.
Our city doesn't appear in the top 5 list (now there's a surprise!)

I think immediate priorities are to increase food production and meet some other civs.
I've uploaded the save using the submissions page but here's a copy as well.

Mabellino
We do not need MP for monarch, send another warrior to explore in another direction! I think non-vet archer useless, spear might be better. When worker finish road at Game send him to NW BG to road it then road/irrigate weat.
Regards, Ivan

I agree, explore with both warriors.


I'll try to play now.

Are we heading for some specific victory, BTW?

Just would be good to decide now...

IMHO we could go for a militaristic one, as we'll eventually get panzers, which are effective. :tank:

oops my mistake! :blush:
Does it look like it's going ok though? do you agree with what I've done so far? This is my first SG, sorry about the newb mistake!

Ps.. I've also looked at 1 or 2 team threads to see if they had started but that was on sat and I didn't read any strategy discussions!

20 turns to follow...

We will have a settler in 3 turns and I've spotted a nice site near the ivory with a flood plain for a second city. I haven't meant anyone else yet but am exploring to the NW and W. Feel free to change directions if you want.
Iron working in 20 turns at 6gpt or 18turns at -1 gpt.
Here's a screenie:
OK. Can't see sav file, so few questions:
What worker doing on Game now? Why -1 gpt?
How many units we have? If 4 it should be 0 gpt.

Worker is chopping forest (complete in 7 turns). We have 2 warriors, one worker and an archer as well as a barracks. I think the barracks accounts for the extra gold. I forgot to mention the barracks in my second post, it's there as EDIT 2.
After we built the archer I had a choice of settler in 6 turns +growth in 6 turns or barrcks in 4 turns then settler. A bit of mm when the pop grew meant we could have the settler 1 turn earlier at the expense of 1 food.

I planned for the worker to chop the forest and the shields could go towards a spearman or whatever then with irrigation we might manage a 4 turn settler factory. (I think we have enough shields)

Please don't forget to turn the governor off as I have only just found out we're not supposed to use them!

We're in joint 1st place at 3000BC if you check the scores page. Not bad for a Regent player eh? :)

Are we heading for some specific victory, BTW?

Just would be good to decide now...

IMHO we could go for a militaristic one, as we'll eventually get panzers, which are effective. :tank:
I think military win will be faster then space. Will see later.
I think you can send MP warrior south using 10% Lax. We need to know our close enviroment to decide where to place next Cities. I think second City should be near Lake-Ivory. What do yo think obout precise spot?

here's one suggestion, bearing in mind that we need to expand quickly so 2 settler factories would be good. I'm also one of those people who can't bear tile overlap!

3000BC [Preturn]: Check out the situation, move the warrior in Berlin to the East. A content turns sad in Berlin, so I higher lux to 10%, at +5gpt.


2850BC [3]: Berlin builds a settler, starts warrior. The settler is sent east, as there is wheat and looks like a nice settling place there.

2670BC [7]: Berlin warrior > spear. Forest harvested, start irrigating the game.

We meet the English in the SW. But the game crashes. :( Reboot the comp. continue from where I was. Try and contact England again, but the game crashes again. I shall now save the game to where it crashed, and you may try and solve this. I'm no good in solving probls like this...:blush: :sad:

Next better player.

And I'm sorry if I messed your plans. I played a bit hastily...:undecide:

And the save. Again I apologise if I messed your plans.

Next better player. Please correct my mistakes... (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Ankka_SG002_BC2670_01.SAV)


So, Ivan or King Alex is up.

I think white spot is the best for second City. I also hate overlap, but we mast
1) settle near fresh water
2) get Ivory as soon as possible.
Magneto dot also possible, but things will 4 turns later then. Where did you send Settler? [Cant see sav file]

Now fligh home. If Alex will not pop up, may I try to sort things out next?
Ivan

IMHO you may. It would be nice.

Hi, I'm back home. This is my "got it".
From what I've seen in other SG's and from my experience, there is much to gain with tight city placement in the higher levels especially until industrial age. I'd go for a city-tile-tile-city placement(much quicker to connect cities, luxuries, terrain improvement, better to defend), but I'm going to leave another tile between our cities, after having seen that nobody(?) likes tight city placement.
We don't play an industrial civ, so we'll need more workers. I'd place our second city on the white dot(before the ivory). I also want us to explore the land, but we should have a warrior guarding each city, and the barbarians are waiting for an opportunity to do some damage.
I'm tired to play now, I have to sleep. If you have any suggestions/objections, please tell them.

EDIT: Ankka, how many turns did you played? I'm playing 10 turns, right? I'll try to upload the save, though I've succeded only once: I don't know what's going wrong; I rarely can get to the second page "Uploaded successful". I'm waiting at least 5-10' to see the next page(after the blue uploading bar comes to it's end), but never comes. How long are you waiting?

IMHO you may. It would be nice.
I played acctally.
Sorry, King Alex!
I was not sure, that it will not crash and played 13 Turns to compensate Ankka. So, I did not inform you "got it" I don't know what was wrong with Ankka save, so I think in present situation you may only continue next 10 turns from my save. I will put save and discussion next.

Here is the save

Here is the question. [This deal is acceptable]

Here is our land and how I played.

Pre-turn
Check Lis about pottery. She sell it for 73 g or 61g+WC.
I decided to wait and see, because we do not need Granary right now.
Put Lux at 0% (Ankka, you should do it few turns before!)
Build Leipzig on spot. Set to worker.
Move archer south with idea to return home (magneta line). Send vet Warrior (red line) down the road south with idea to see SE area. Send NE warrior Noth. Send NW warrior home to scout near NW area.
Few turns later vet warrior meet barbarian warrior, decided to continue South.
Barbarian atack, and our warrior became elite. Two more barb warrior appear. Elite warrior fight back across the river and win without loosing HP.
Change production in Leipzig to warrior.
IBT third barb atack and die, our elite again did not loose HP. Fourth barb appear. Next turn archer spot russian border, go up the hiils, but no contact yet. Change Berlin to settler with idea to swich to Granary next turn. Elite warrior atack barb and die! (this way how RNG works...) Send reg warrior to Berlin.
Next turn contact with Russian became possible. Cathy up Pottery, CB, Masonary, and wheel. She has 2 City and 35 gold.
Lis research WC herself, but now want for pottery 31 gold. Not so simple my dear! Time for active trade.
Put res-Lax to 0%, Mmng Berlin to golden mounain. Now make 9gpt.
Cathy: Masonary+5 g for 9 gpt.
Lis: Alphabet for Masonary+29 gold.
Cathy: Wheel for Alphabet+100 gold.
Lis: CB+Pottery+39 gold for Wheel (she can't pay gpt).
Mmng Berlin back to BG+Games, set to Granary, put sci 10%, now we make -2gpt (so what). Archer continue way East, Cathy ask to move out.
(So what, let's see, where he jump). Archer jump 2 tiles NW, and go home.
New Leipzig warrior go scout SE area, see inecense hill. NW warrior return to Berlin.
Last: turn IW discovered. We have Iron in "our" land, but we may need City or Colony to pick up.
Cathy agrees 100 gold +6gpt for IW (or 118+5gpt, or 136+4gpt...May be lump sum is better, she will have it soon). I don't know shall we at all? We can deside, when money run out. May be Lis will discover something for change (now Lis have no gold and gpt). Obviosly, Cathy is our first target, but I have no idea when we will start our war. Berlin with Barracks is our "settler factory" and when next city will be productive, who knows. Leipzig is far away... Also, barbs at SE are very active... Problems, problems... In general, situation is not bad, In fact Granary will be finished in Berlin in 3 turns (please Micromanage to ensure fast growth!) We shoulg learn, how settler Factory work! I cant make a decision where to move warrior near Leipzig, because of barbarians at South but we need to scout for the fifth City.
I think third City near elephants-lake (black-white spot) is the best location, road almost complete, and worker road plains fast, 4th is near spises, the only worry that Cathy will settle there first...
Let's discuss thingsbefore Alex play, or at least after his seventh turn... I hope we can settle on track...
Regards, Ivan

I think, we should go for deal with Cathy: IW for Cash. The point is that Lis can research it (she did WC 12 turns ago, and if she set for IW (100% or so) she may do it in 16-18 turns. (4-6 turns from now). So Lump sum or so from Cathy for IW is a good deal. I hate to pay for Tech myself, in fact it founded future AI's research. Opposite leads to their bancropsy... When we discover Writing-Litracy we will show them how Science work...
(I am scientific militarist and Germany is my favorite civ...)

Nice job, mr Larkin! :goodjob:

And I think that deal is acceptable. Weird that they will pay gpt in the ancient ages...:eek:

I.Larkin, no problem with me for playing. Mabellino is next(according to the roster).
Nice thinking about the deals, and good suggestions about our next cities.
What do the other members think about our cities placement? I'd like a tighter placement. More cities mean more units, gold, easier to attack our ememies, faster terrain improvement and therefore quicker developement, etc...(the AI has the bad habit of spreading too far). We can have a few SOD's early and take on our enemies sooner, rather than waiting for them to declare. Only from industrialization and after do our cities need more space to grow, and by then it'll be too late for the AI :D . If you don't want city-2 tiles-city, at least we can go for city-3 tiles-city, but further placement would result at having the same power and productivity with the AI. Don't get me wrong, I also don't like tile overlaps, but since I moved up from chieftain and warlord, I found it very effective. Please comment.

King Alexander, I agree a tighter placement is needed but I think city-2tiles-city is a wee bit close unless we are planning an industrial age palace move. I like the way the game is progressing so far, has everyone now played?
The roster as far as I was aware was Me, Ankka, I.Larkin then King Alexander.
I can't believ we've found 2 civs so close! It seems my random archer wandering got within a couple of tiles of Russia!
How many cities are we aiming for? What's the OCN for this size map? Are we willing to spend gpt on barracks maintainance?

On that sweet Russian deal... accept it! gpt in the ancient age.. I never see that normally! We need to cripple their research early if we're planning on taking them out soon, the 20turns will give us time to beef up our military.

File uploads:
It takes me around 10 seconds to upload using AlanH's page thingy, I have a 512K cable modem and a P3 800MHz machine.

Great game so far.. :goodjob:

So, the play order is:

mabellino - currently playing
Ankka - on deck
King Alexander
I.Larkin

Let's try and keep the save going on at a good rate, about 2-3 days per player. Is this ok with everyone?

And if next player doesn't say "got it" within 24 hours of the last save, (s)he'll be skipped.

Does this suit everyone?
Mabellino, this is the updated roster. So, you're next.
Yes, barracks are essential for our wars: we need veteran and not regular units. I agree with the city proposition(dot map) made by I.Larkin. Good luck.

No, you are up, King, as you didn't get to play the roster will look like this:

mabellino
Ankka
I. Larkin
King Alexander

So you're up. :)

That's what I thought too! I looked at the scores graphs and we're still doing really well. Go Team! :D

Sign that deal with Cathy! And try and get as much gpt as possible, that'll slow her expansion, letting us have more area.

Nice job, mr Larkin! :goodjob:

And I think that deal is acceptable. Weird that they will pay gpt in the ancient ages...:eek:
That is my trick! I payed 9 gpt to her for Masonary... Now money will come back...

Oh. Should've read the turnlog properly. :blush:

I.Larkin, no problem with me for playing. Mabellino is next(according to the roster).
Nice thinking about the deals, and good suggestions about our next cities.
What do the other members think about our cities placement? I'd like a tighter placement. More cities mean more units, gold, easier to attack our ememies, faster terrain improvement and therefore quicker developement, etc...(the AI has the bad habit of spreading too far). We can have a few SOD's early and take on our enemies sooner, rather than waiting for them to declare. Only from industrialization and after do our cities need more space to grow, and by then it'll be too late for the AI :D . If you don't want city-2 tiles-city, at least we can go for city-3 tiles-city, but further placement would result at having the same power and productivity with the AI. Don't get me wrong, I also don't like tile overlaps, but since I moved up from chieftain and warlord, I found it very effective. Please comment.
I am not dogmatic at this question. In general I play with 1-3 tiles overlap, but in special caces I can go 1 tile between Cities.
(See my Fishpoint City in SGOTM1 (AKOTS)). I think it is more important to find good individual place for each City (taking into account corruption and good communication between them). Also we should grab Lux and Resources. We have plenty fresh water, so many Cities will reach size 12 "soon", we should care about it... I often irrigate first, and when City saturates to 12 plant forest, cut and mine tile. Unfortunately in Civ1.29 forest can be cut only ones. Another important (For Deity-Emperor) is to prevent AI expansion. If we play Deity I would go to Spices first, and then somewhere else. I never play Monarch before, I skip from Regent to Emperor and found it simple...
Any suggestion how long our Game will be? My bet (from stars-coffe-finger) is 1000AD+/- 200. This figure is most important to estimate efficiency of investments and style of playing....
Regards, Ivan.

This is my "got it".

I.Larkin. if you're bet comes true I'd be happy!

EDIT: We're losing 5gpt(193g, -5gpt) - Writing in 22. Do you agree to research at that rate?(100%) I can't play, if I don't know what are our ideas and strategy. Our treasury, is after making the deal with Cathrin(IW).

One thing that helped me research at a loss was to do one turn at min science (10% or a scientist) to build cash then back to max... the extra turn doesn't really make a difference. 22 turns at -5gpt=110 gold lost, still leaves us with cash in the bank but what about the next tech? Do you think we will get much gold for IW? I tend to believe the AI usually researches it at a highish priority so by the time 22 turns are up they could already have it! We need more cities (as the F1 advisor keeps going on about!) to be able to crank up the research.
Question is do we grab them from the English or Russians (could be corrupt for a while) or build our own? If it falls to me I think we would be better off building them, but that's just because I'm pants at fighting! If we get into a war on my turn I'll be posting after each move saying "ok, now what?!?" ;)
Good luck!

EDIT: Forgot to ask a question before..
I was just checking the scores graph and was wondering what our collective experience is? I'll freely admit most of my SP games are on Regent/warlord but I did just win GOTM31 (barely, but it was still a win!) and I've won a couple of others. It would be interesting to see how our team is made up since we seem to be beating some of the other teams who I know have great players! Sorry guys but I've not seen any of your posts in the GOTM spoilers (because I've had a 6 month sabbatical! ;) ) so I'm not too sure where I would rank! Sorry if that sounded a bit weird but I found it hard to phrase without offending you guys!
Also am I the only female on our team? Can't tell by username/post style!

Our current treasury is AFTER I made the deal the team suggested. I sold IW to Russia.
England can't pay us anything.

oops misread writing, thought you said IW! In that case... GO FOR IT!!!
Writing is a great tech to get! Where do you see us going next? (techwise!)

I was thinking for Lit(libraries)/Mathematics/Currency(markets).
Ok, I'll keep our current research rate then.

I think lit is the way to go... don't let me build the GL (or even attempt it) even if I beg! I need to beat this wonder addiction!
What turn are we up to? (around turn 50? 1750BC?)
If you're finished in time I'll play my turns tomorrow night... can't miss Friends on Thursday (penultimate episode... any US residents had better not spoil it for me! ;) :D )

Pre-turn: trade IW with Cathrin and get 118g + 5gpt(as you suggested). We’re loosing -5gpt, and I don’t know if we can afford science at 100% - we’ll lose . We also need to build our units, among others. MM Berlin and Leipzig to take granary in 3 / warrior in 5.

Turn 1, 2110BC: keep exploring, irrigate wheat in Leipzig.

Turn 2, 2070BC: the same.

Turn 3, 2030BC: Berlin: granary -> settler in 4.

Ibt: Russia starts the Oracle.

Turn 4, 1990BC: waiting.

Turn 5, 1950BC : Leipzig: warrior -> granary. Worker starts road at Leipzig.

Turn 6, 1910BC: Our warrior deserts a Seltzuk village and we gain 25g.

Turn 7, 1870BC: Liz had/has no money, but knows IW. Cathrin knows HB and Mysticism. She offers Mysticism for 150g(after bargain), but we can’t afford it at this rate of research.

Turn 8, 1830BC: Berlin: settler -> spearman. I’m going for the spices.

Turn 9, 1790BC: Worker finishes mine in BG near Berlin. He’s going to road towards our future city. Worker at Leipzig chops forest to get our granary quickly. We’re are going to have to 2 spices soon.

Turn 10, 1750BC: Settler and warrior are in position for our new city. Archer and warrior keep exploring.

Summary: I didn’t like that we’re losing so much gpt to research Writing. If Cathrin gets it before us, our gambit would be a disaster. We really need 2 workers per city. I know that we’ll prevent expansion for a while this way, but think how fast our cities would develop and produce more settlers/units/workers. Working the land is crucial. Even with fewer cities, they couldn’t touch us. Maybe we settle 1 more city near the ivory and then built workers to improve the terrain before continue our expansion. It’s late, and maybe my mind doesn’t function properly, so I’ll post more ideas/suggestions – tomorrow.

EDIT: Feel free to criticise me, I didn't like very much the way I played(especially for losing our gold).

I'm waiting for ages to upload an image, so I'll only post the save. Sorry.
save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55037&stc=1)

EDIT: We're losing 5gpt(193g, -5gpt) - Writing in 22. Do you agree to research at that rate?(100%) I can't play, if I don't know what are our ideas and strategy. Our treasury, is after making the deal with Cathrin(IW).
My idea yes. (I may be wrong, however). 9 gpt to Cathy expire in 15 turns, so we can continue research at 100% for next tech. My preliminary suggession is (in order) Literacy, Phylosophy, Code of Law, MapMaking, Math, Currency, Republic. Or Literacy, Phylosophy, Code of Law, MapMaking, Republic, Math, Currency. Or Literacy, MapMaking, Math, Phylosophy, Code of Law, Republic, Currency. [last one is the best, IMHO]. We may trade what we done for Cash or for tech from this list. For example, we do not need HB Riding now (horses too far away) and Misticizm, we can get it when both Cathy and Lis will have it and it will be cheaper. It is difficult to predict this for long time, what is better, in fact each tech will take 15-20 turns and I have 8 in the list... We also may get into war and will have to connect Iron and upgrade, so cash is limited...

Just look at the save. Is it real? What happend, Alex!? Why Berlin size 1? Did you poprash settler? Or massive barbs? Why you send settler south?
Lots of questions...

still can't understand. If Berlin produce settler in 4 it must be size 4. Size 3 City can only make 7 shields. So it should be size 2 at least...
May be file corrupt? Or may be you put zero growth and make settler in 5 actually?

Pre-turn: trade IW with Cathrin and get 118g + 5gpt(as you suggested). We’re loosing -5gpt, and I don’t know if we can afford science at 100% - we’ll lose . We also need to build our units, among others. MM Berlin and Leipzig to take granary in 3 / warrior in 5.


Turn 3, 2030BC: Berlin: granary -> settler in 4.

EDIT: Feel free to criticise me, I didn't like very much the way I played(especially for losing our gold).
OK, first of all, you kill idea of Settler Factory. The basic idiea is to have 5 food surplus and build settler each 4 turns without losing population. Let me explain, how it works at our examle (you may also read Bamspeedy article about that or look SG "revenge of Babilonians settler, roster A).
For settler factory we need irigate/mined land around Berlin + one more mined grasland (I thought it will be SW grassland near river, it has one more gold). Size 4 Berlin may produce 6 shields and 5 food surplus. It will in fact at first turn. Second turn Berlin grow to size 5 and Labor jump to Forest (It is nice to have roaded forest for more gold). As a result we have 6+8=14 shilds for settler. (Governor of, of cource).
Now we have to Micromanage and put 5th labor to mined grassland and third turn we have 7 shield production and again 5 food surplus. Also, we may need to ajust Lux to avoid riot. So after third turn we have 6+8+7 shields for settler. Next turn, however berlin virtually grow to size 6, Labor again go to Forest and it gives 9 shields in fact that enough to finish settler 6+8+7+9=30. We may put Lux to 0% again.
Please, ask me if something unclear!
Settler factory is unique opportunity to settle huge continent we have, we may have 10 Cities in 40 turns, in comparison we had only two in first 40 turns. Needless to say, that with 12-14 Cities we will be "unbeatable" and research will go 5-6 turns per tech.

One thing that helped me research at a loss was to do one turn at min science (10% or a scientist) to build cash then back to max... the extra turn doesn't really make a difference. 22 turns at -5gpt=110 gold lost, still leaves us with cash in the bank but what about the next tech? Do you think we will get much gold for IW? I tend to believe the AI usually researches it at a highish priority so by the time 22 turns are up they could already have it! We need more cities (as the F1 advisor keeps going on about!) to be able to crank up the research.
Question is do we grab them from the English or Russians (could be corrupt for a while) or build our own? If it falls to me I think we would be better off building them, but that's just because I'm pants at fighting! If we get into a war on my turn I'll be posting after each move saying "ok, now what?!?" ;)
Good luck!

EDIT: Forgot to ask a question before..
I was just checking the scores graph and was wondering what our collective experience is? I'll freely admit most of my SP games are on Regent/warlord but I did just win GOTM31 (barely, but it was still a win!) and I've won a couple of others. It would be interesting to see how our team is made up since we seem to be beating some of the other teams who I know have great players! Sorry guys but I've not seen any of your posts in the GOTM spoilers (because I've had a 6 month sabbatical! ;) ) so I'm not too sure where I would rank! Sorry if that sounded a bit weird but I found it hard to phrase without offending you guys!
Also am I the only female on our team? Can't tell by username/post style!
Dear mabellino,
First answer to your questions:
I think we may continue research at 100%. Lit is our priority, we need libs as cheap culture improuvment and they will accelerate our research. I hate pay to AI for reseach as it founded their future... Only strategical Tech can be bought/changed for ours, or for cash.
See my "research" post for details.
I am also not so good at war, I resonably good at defensive mode, but poor atacker. For the current position I think our troops far to far from home, barbs already active, also our military is weak compare to English. I think we should direct troops home and build more military. I suggest to change Leipzig to Barracks and then build sperar. Or spear, barracks, spear. Please Mmg not to vest shields from forest. Then send spear to Berlin. Also at new City (build it at spot, please) better to build warrior and barracks then.
About me. My name is Ivan, it is Russian male name. I think King Alex man as well. Not sure about Ankka. (In Russia it is girl's name).
BTW, are you at essex University? Which Department? What your research area? I am Research Scientist at Georgia State Uni, Physics. I never played GOTM, cant coope with software they ask to download. In my home game I always play Deity, but almost never finish - game become boring when I see that I defenetly win... I lost few however, but won more games. I am very good in Mcmnging, City plasment, military roading, defense war, trade... May be my weak point is that I Sciense adicktive person and Build Libs, Unis, Copernicus, Newton if I can. I hate religious improuvments... I don't like Greate Library, it make me loose research initiative.
Good luck at playing! Unfortunately you will not start Settler Factory.
First of all you shuld recover Berlin to size 4. It is your first
priority! But it also needs spear. As compromise, I suggest 2+2+3+3 food (first two turns "as it is" on BG, next two turns on wheat), then Wheat + Game recover to size 3 and 4 in 2 turns each. Then set it to worker and we will have worker each 2 turns keeping size 4. Use MP, don't let to barbs step on Wheat. Connect Spiecy City with Berlin. That's all you can do in your turns, hope Ankka will put us back on track... If Cathy discover writing first you may pursher it for reasonable price... If English declare war, don't panic, stay on high ground, do not atack their warriors on mountings. Again, I hope Ankka will manage...
Regards, Ivan.
PS, please, writte your suggestions befor playing, I will be at Internet at your late evening (7-8 pm or so).

OK I've looked at the save and have a couple of small suggestions.

1. If I set the citizen in Berlin to work the Irrigated Game tile we will grow to size 2 in 3 turns with the spear in a predicted 7 turns (game's prediction!)
Firstly I think getting Berlin back to size 3/4 is a high priority, higher even than an extra spearman. I tend to build too many defensive units and have been trying to undo the bad habit by building more offensive ones. The AI assess your military on how much damage it can potentially do to them so offensive units count more than defensive in determining military strength. I think a spearman at this early stage is an expensive unit. We'd be better off builing a couple of warriors and upgraging to swords when we get our iron hooked up.

2. I've also tried to emphasize growth in Leipzig, a size 1 city will take many turns to build a granary but by growing it a bit first, we can have 1 citizen working a high food tile supporting others on high shield tiles. The game's predicition of how long things take to build doesn't allow for city growth, especially when we have emphasize production on.

3. The settler heading south needs to found a city asap and those spices are a prime target. We desperately need a city by the Ivory too to stop the AI grabbing it. We need iron and horses too. I think one of our cities desperately needs to be a settler farm, workers won't have as much impact as a city provides quick and ready gpt and much needed unit support as well as new territory full of resources. I think we should refrain from building a new worker until we have at least 2 more settlers.

One last , more general point: I've noticed that our posts seem a bit erratic when describing our turns. What do you guys think about sticking to a format for the update posts and the rest can be any style? An easy to read turn log (like King Alex's above) will save us time and help me avoid mis reading things like earlier with the IW/writing blunder! :blush:
We also need to upload our saves to the Upload Server (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm.php) so we can keep an eye on how we're doing.

This is my official "got it" by the way!
I'll hold off from playing anymore until Ivan has had chance to read this post

OK I've looked at the save and have a couple of small suggestions.

1. If I set the citizen in Berlin to work the Irrigated Game tile we will grow to size 2 in 3 turns with the spear in a predicted 7 turns (game's prediction!)
Firstly I think getting Berlin back to size 3/4 is a high priority, higher even than an extra spearman. I tend to build too many defensive units and have been trying to undo the bad habit by building more offensive ones. The AI assess your military on how much damage it can potentially do to them so offensive units count more than defensive in determining military strength. I think a spearman at this early stage is an expensive unit. We'd be better off builing a couple of warriors and upgraging to swords when we get our iron hooked up.

2. I've also tried to emphasize growth in Leipzig, a size 1 city will take many turns to build a granary but by growing it a bit first, we can have 1 citizen working a high food tile supporting others on high shield tiles. The game's predicition of how long things take to build doesn't allow for city growth, especially when we have emphasize production on.

3. The settler heading south needs to found a city asap and those spices are a prime target. We desperately need a city by the Ivory too to stop the AI grabbing it. We need iron and horses too. I think one of our cities desperately needs to be a settler farm, workers won't have as much impact as a city provides quick and ready gpt and much needed unit support as well as new territory full of resources. I think we should refrain from building a new worker until we have at least 2 more settlers.

One last , more general point: I've noticed that our posts seem a bit erratic when describing our turns. What do you guys think about sticking to a format for the update posts and the rest can be any style? An easy to read turn log (like King Alex's above) will save us time and help me avoid mis reading things like earlier with the IW/writing blunder! :blush:
We also need to upload our saves to the Upload Server (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm.php) so we can keep an eye on how we're doing.

This is my official "got it" by the way!
I'll hold off from playing anymore until Ivan has had chance to read this post
Good plan in general. don't forget to send troops home. I recomend swich to Berlin to Game next turn (not in "pre-turn") the result will be the same. When it grow to size 2 put Labors on Wheat and Game.
I am not sure shall we wait until "Settler Factory" ready or we can build next setler after Spear in Berlin. I recomend Build Hamburg where it is, on Spieces, send Warrior 1 tile west for observation.
Build Warrior then Barracks in Hamburd, use forest for Labor, not Grassland.
Regards, Ivan

When Settler Factory starts, we can build lot of cities. (This is dream, however...). I think we can build City 2 before the Factory will be ready. Problem is that we need lot of workers to improve this Land and army to defend...

Ok I've played my turns.

Quick summary:
England keeps threatening our borders but haven't declared yet. We've discovered writing and now have 2 embassies (Russia and England). 177gold and researching Lit at 100% (-3gpt) in 19 turns. Russia know the French, I figure they are South or South East of Moscow since the English haven't met them.

Score 115 (3rd place behind AI)

Turn Log:
1725BC (1)
Build Hamburg on top of spices, fortify warrior. Send SE warrior to Hamburg and let Archer spy on English for a few more turns.
MM Berlin to grow in 2 turns and build spear in 11.
MM Leipzig to grow in 3 turns and Barracks in 8.

1700BC (2) Nothing interesting

1675BC (3)
MM Berlin to get spear in 2 turns, grow in 5 since the English are approaching.
MM Hamburg to get warrior in 4 turns at zero growth (for now)

1650bc (4)
Leipzig grows to Pop 2, barracks in 1 turn, grow in 10.
Contact both rivals, nothing to buy/ sell

1625BC (5)
England send 2 warriors inside our borders :(
Berlin Spear completes, fortify, build another in 4 turns.
Leipzig builds Barracks, set to build Spear

1600BC (6)
Worker completes road, move south to road to Hamburg.
Barb warrior approaches Berlin from N
English change direction (?)
Now making 2gpt, writing in 5 turns.

1575BC (7)
English change direction again.
Hamburg completes warrior, set to spear in 20turns, grow in 8

1550BC (8) Inter turn: Barbs attack we win with no damage, 1st Palace improvement :D
Move warrior from SE to guard worker building road.

1525BC (9)
Leipzig builds spear --> Archer in 7
Berlin builds Spear --> Walls in 2
Send new spear to Hamburg as English appear to be threatening it.
Adjust slider to get writing in 1 turn at +15gpt.

1500BC (10)
Discover Writing, go for lit in 19turns at -3gpt
Russians and English haven't met yet :lol: take advantage and sell contact with English to Cath for 100gold+worker :) They would probably have met next turn! Fools!
English are broke so can't buy from Cath.
Russians know the French, held off trading contact as I think we'll find them soon.
Establish embassies and take screenshots of Moscow and London.
New slave worker heads towards Leipzig to help connect it to Berlin.
Hamburg now has garrison of 3 warriors.


Recommendations:
English seem to be on the verge of declaring war, keep building military for now until we have a strong or average mil.
Berlin is almost size 4, recommend we turn it into a settler farm and build spears to escort them.
Hamburg needs walls as will not reach pop7 until aqueducts.

Here's the save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Ankka_SG002_BC1500_01.SAV)
EDIT: Forgot the screenshots!

Graete play Ma' bell! Simply have no words how good it is!
I will write my suggestions next post.
Ivan

I.Larkin: thanks for your tips about the settler factory, really. I hadn't understood it clearly un I'm trying to get used in MM my cities(this is the second game that I do it): I admit it, this is my weak point(I hope not any longer, after your explanation). I'll try to do my best. I'm a lot better at offence or defence(IMHO). I agree with your thoughts/suggestions. I'm also a bit curious to see what we'll achieve with our science at that high rate: I've never done this(with a treasury that low) and you seem to know where it will leed us. But, your planning seems very logical.
Woudn't be a good idea to keep exploring with our warrior and archer?
I agree, as I've previously said, that we should post our ideas/suggestions BEFORE playing and wait for the others to reply. Maybe I didn't waited long enough, yesterday. Better to play our turns slower to prevent any bad moves.
I've sent the settler south, to get the spices(and to expand towards the AI). Next settler should be near the ivory, IMHO.

Mabellino: proceed with your suggestions and correct(if possible) my mistakes.
I've attached the save, because I can't wait for ages to upload my saves. When the upload seems to be done, it stucks in the same first page and I don't get the second confirmation page. I've succeeded only once so far in another game. Yesterday, I was trying for an hour to upload, unsuccessfully though. I don't know what the problem is. I'll keep trying, anyway.

Also am I the only female on our team? Can't tell by username/post style!
I'm a male and my name is Vasilis, "Vasili" when someone speaks with me: without the "s". I know, this name is also used in Russian and comes from the same religion[I'm not a religious person, though, nor I would describe myself as an atheist: I simply have my own beliefs]; enough said! Maybe I'm offending someone :) ).

By the way, Ivan is "John" in English(If I'm correct).

mabellino: good turns and thinking :goodjob: Don't warry about the English: with 2 spearmen and walls in our cities, they can't touch us. Good move to sell the 2 fools contacts :lol:

I.Larkin's suggested city sites for our next 3-4 cities are also what I'd suggested, so let's do it. Later on, we'll see what the AI has done and decide again. Spearmen should escort every settler from now on. We should also prepare a city(Leipzig?) to produce spearmen/workers, so Berlin has to built only settlers. Workers will be the key factor for our developement. If we can buy them crippling the AI, even better.

mabellino: good turns and thinking :goodjob: Don't warry about the English: with 2 spearmen and walls in our cities, they can't touch us. Good move to sell the 2 fools contacts :lol:

I.Larkin's suggested city sites for our next 3-4 cities are also what I'd suggested, so let's do it. Later on, we'll see what the AI has done and decide again. Spearmen should escort every settler from now on. We should also prepare a city(Leipzig?) to produce spearmen/workers, so Berlin has to built only settlers. Workers will be the key factor for our developement. If we can buy them crippling the AI, even better.
First of all i think, that there is no immidiate threat to Berlin, please change it for settler in your preturn. Also micromanage Berlin for max production but grow in 1 turn, as on the picture.
Next turns, please micromanage to ensure 5 food surplus.
It will finsh settler in 4 turns and will be "3.5" size. Again micromanage to ensure 5 food surplus. Next settler will be in 5 turn leaving 4.0 size. Again, keep 5 food surplus and set for workers until "Setler Factory" (my blue dream) will be ready.
I hope you experience enough to carry out war, if happend. We have 2 speras in front and strong garnison in Hamburg. Up to you, to decide what Leipzig will build. Send your suggestions, before and after.
Regards, Ivan
Good luck.

May be barracks in Hamburg will be better? Or walls?

About turn log format: I thought, that my picture+text good enough to illustrate what have happend, but may be you prefer "standart" format as Alex and mabell did?

Another suggestion: may be we send warrior from leipzig to Berlin and willl pump warriors in Leipzig? Just in case, if things will go "nasty" we can connect Iron and upgrade...

Got it, playing today or tomorrow.

I.Larkin: I'll try hard to follow your suggestions about the settler factory. Again, I thank you for your advice :goodjob: Please, give futher suggestions in future, if I'll do anything stupid :cry:
First, I'd built walls in Hamburg, because if the enemy attacks, they'll do it from the west mountains. I'd built workers from Hamburg, as we need a lot of them to improve the terrain and connect the Iron asap. Let's expand to get the ivory and insence. I'd also like us to get a horse site at some point.
I would prepare for war, when England or Russia reaches at our front cities. We could get 3-4 cities within a few turns and prepare for another strike later. As soon as we can control them, the better. After that, we can settle the unclaimed land and raise our science(we'd have to drop it, while before/in war).

EDIT: I'd built walls in all our front cities, no matter who the enemy is.

EDIT 2: I'd go for mabellino's turn log format.

King Alex, I also think walls in Hamburg are a great idea. Those mountains are too tempting for the AI and it will take a while to grow to size7 so we'll get our money's worth!
Leipzig and Berlin both have barracks, do we need to build them in Hamburg too? I'm undecided.
I've uploaded King Alex's save from before mine to the server as my broadband connection doesn't struggle with it. I'll be happy to do this all the time if you like.

I'm really proud of hoodwinking the Russians like that! I still can't believe they hadn't met the English since their cities are sooooooo close together! There's been a Russian scout lurking around Leipzig for a few turns too.

Let's get some more cities built and grab some horses and iron (as well as that incense). I think Lizzie will think twice about any sneak attack!

I'm really enjoying this game and I'm proud I haven't messed it up yet. Really felt the pressure at first, as a Regent player who rarely wins by anything other than Diplo and Space. I'd love to get a conquest victory under my belt!

Go team! :goodjob: :goodjob: :D

Leipzig and Berlin both have barracks, do we need to build them in Hamburg too? I'm undecided.
I've uploaded King Alex's save from before mine to the server as my broadband connection doesn't struggle with it. I'll be happy to do this all the time if you like.

I'm really enjoying this game and I'm proud I haven't messed it up yet. Really felt the pressure at first, as a Regent player who rarely wins by anything other than Diplo and Space. I'd love to get a conquest victory under my belt!

Go team! :goodjob: :goodjob: :D

Unfortunately, I'm not that proud myself, having messed up our team's effort for a sttler factory :cry:
We definetly need barracks in our cities(AND walls in our front cities). England and Russia will settle the land towards us, really quickly. Soon, they'll begin demanding this or that(I hate that :mad: ). They're surely going to declare, if we have a weak military. After 3-4 cities more, let's concentrate to improve the land and produce our SoD's. We'll take their cities(I hope, above 1pop, so they can't be razed): better than built ours and be weak militarily(IMHO).
mabellino, sooner or later, you're going to be able to win by any kind of victory(I think, soon enough :) ), so don't warry especially.
I'll keep trying uploading; if I have problems in doing so, I'll notify you. Thanks :)
I'm at work now, and I find time to read the posts between breaks or when things aren't very stressed.
Off topic: what do you do with your custom avatar? You have to reach 300 posts to have one? You upload the image to the server or attach it? I want an avatar with my beloved canaries :lol:

Anything about avatars: check this thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=75152) for info.

But I can say that you need 300 posts. After that you go to your user CP, then "edit avatar" (on the left side of the screen) and then you can upload the image you want from your computer. :)

Playing now.

Main targets: to get as many cities as possible & build defenders & workers.

My game seems to crash every time a diplomacy screen should open. Ivan should play now while I'm rying to get the problem fixed. :undecide:

My game seems to crash every time a diplomacy screen should open. Ivan should play now while I'm rying to get the problem fixed. :undecide:
I had the same problem with my new computer: never found out what was it, because I gave it to my mother(after my nerves had broken) and I took back my old one. Really strange. So, you've got the diplomacy crash: maybe, also, your screen flickers when you get to MM?

MM? Map Making?

No, I haven't had problems like that. And I've played civ for a long time on this computer without a problem... It just started now suddenly when playing this game.

MM? Map Making?

No, I haven't had problems like that. And I've played civ for a long time on this computer without a problem... It just started now suddenly when playing this game.
Sorry, I meant micro manage.

@Ankka,
I don't know of any setup or compatibility issues for this game. Besides, it does not even belong to the modded GOTMs.
You may want to talk to MB and/or Alan about your troubles if you think they are related to this specific game, anyway.

OK, I got it. I acctually wrote my suggestons before: Not to build walls in Berlin, but Settlers, (2 in a row), build Walls in Hamburg, pump warriors in Leipzig. Settle at dots in order.
Another idea come: what if we renegotiate peace treaty with England? If we give them Writing and some GPT, may be they leave us in peace? We can't benefit from war at this stage...

@Karasu: I think it's my vanilla civ... I haven't played a game with it for a while, actually. But It has worked very well so far... dunno what the problem is. I just hope I don't need to reinstall it...

I.Larkin: I trust you, after what I saw ;) We are not wanting a war at this point. So, proceed with your plan, but have a spearman in all our cities. We must first "have" an army ready to strike before doing any plans for war.

I.Larkin: I'll try hard to follow your suggestions about the settler factory. Again, I thank you for your advice :goodjob: Please, give futher suggestions in future, if I'll do anything stupid :cry:
First, I'd built walls in Hamburg, because if the enemy attacks, they'll do it from the west mountains. I'd built workers from Hamburg, as we need a lot of them to improve the terrain and connect the Iron asap. Let's expand to get the ivory and insence. I'd also like us to get a horse site at some point.
I would prepare for war, when England or Russia reaches at our front cities. We could get 3-4 cities within a few turns and prepare for another strike later. As soon as we can control them, the better. After that, we can settle the unclaimed land and raise our science(we'd have to drop it, while before/in war).

EDIT: I'd built walls in all our front cities, no matter who the enemy is.

EDIT 2: I'd go for mabellino's turn log format.
OK, let me explain Settler factory idea again.
(As a bad poem and Picture.)
Turn one: Labors at Game, Wheat and Bon-Graslans.
Turn two: nothing to do.
Third turn most important! Labor from Forest to grassland!
Turn four: nothing to do anymore!
Setler ready! And then again:
Turn one: Labors at Game, Wheat and Bon-Graslans...
....
In normal words I will do the same, at turn 3 I'll micromange to swich Labor from forest (red F) to grassland (blue M) Unfortunately it is not mined yet, so Settler will be in 5 turns, not in 4. So Berlin wil grow at 0.5 size after each settler. I think it is OK, to have 2 settlers, and then decide what to do. (Accually it will be your turns Alex). I think 2 more Cities is a MUST, but not sure about next. May be OK to continue settler/5 turns and let Berlin grow... If so it will not need walls soon.
About Format. Turn logs in "standart" form as you and mabell did looks OK, but it is unclear, how you and mabell micromanage Berlin and how you both moved troops. Also I'd like to know how English moved, I think it depend on our build-up and maneuvers.

I was practising in an epic game with Germany, and I only managed to have a 6 turn settler factory, but it wasn't at the same terrain as this is. You said that the idea is to have 5 food surplus every turn and adjust the shields when needed. So, we need to mine that grass asap.
About the turn log: I'll give a more detailed turn log with micro-manage and troop moves, at least until everything is clear and explained.
Again, thanks for the valuable information.
I don't know if I'm going to play next; maybe Ankka has solved his computer problems(?).

No, Ivan is next, you're after him.

The roster looks like this, you see:


mabellino - just played
Ankka - vanilla civ problems. :(
I.Larkin - UP!
King Alexander - on deck

No, Ivan is next, you're after him.
Dear Ankka, do you have any suggestions for me how to play?
Shall I renegotiate peace with England? Any tips how to carry out war if happend?
Regards, Ivan.

All I can say is that you should try and get the Settler factory working. If England attacks, defed and try to make peace. You could also try and get Russia into the war... I think you know what to do. :)

All I can say is that you should try and get the Settler factory working. If England attacks, defed and try to make peace. You could also try and get Russia into the war... I think you know what to do. :)
Alliance with Russians vs England is not a good idea. First, it costs money, second we will bound for 20 turn war...

Dear I.Larkin: I believe you can carry out a war situation :) You actually know what you have to do:
1) build walls in our front cities
2) have 2 spearmen in our front cities and 1 in all others.
You can make the first 2 steps before war, to be ready just in case...
3) build barracks in the cities they don't have(after walls)
4) Just stay on defence if war comes, and have 1 more spearman in our front cities. Produce a few swordsmen if you can, to take out the injured units.
That was all. With 3 spearmen in our front cities and walls, you have to fear nothing ;) The AI will not come organized in SoD's, rather send a couple of units every now and then and your spears will have time to heal.
But I believe you knew the steps already :) I believe you're going to do fine.

EDIT: I'm going to use my 24h got it, to give Ankka time for his computer problems, so he can play his turn and not miss it.

The save runs OK for me, including diplomacy. It may be that your diplomacy.txt file or your Pediaicons.txt file is screwed.

I can give you "clean" English language versions, but you will have to backup your originals first.

after backing up the originals in the <basedir>/Text directory, replace them with >>THESE<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/MBText.zip)

I played accually. Here is a question...

Dear I.Larkin: I believe you can carry out a war situation :) You actually know what you have to do:
1) build walls in our front cities
2) have 2 spearmen in our front cities and 1 in all others.
You can make the first 2 steps before war, to be ready just in case...
3) build barracks in the cities they don't have(after walls)
4) Just stay on defence if war comes, and have 1 more spearman in our front cities. Produce a few swordsmen if you can, to take out the injured units.
That was all. With 3 spearmen in our front cities and walls, you have to fear nothing ;) The AI will not come organized in SoD's, rather send a couple of units every now and then and your spears will have time to heal.
But I believe you knew the steps already :) I believe you're going to do fine.

EDIT: I'm going to use my 24h got it, to give Ankka time for his computer problems, so he can play his turn and not miss it.
This "program" take 30 turns approximately but I had only 10. I think better go to the deal above and breath normally. We have enough cash to carry on 100% research...

I.Larkin, what happened? They declared first? Have you finished your 10 turns? Maybe you've asked them to leave or declare?

EDIT: We can pay them 60g for peace treaty, IF we want to make peace. The military advisor says we're weak vs England, but their cities are small(size 1-2) and they can't built enough units to become a real threat. If they had cities right in front of our borders and we had Iron connected, I'd give them a lesson to remember, but for now, it's better to pay them.
We really need 2 spearmen to escort our settlers, really.
After we settle near the Iron and incense, let's stick to my previous suggestion.
IMHO, we should expand towards the AI. I really want us to control all those mountains. It's harder to fight them in mountains if they settle near them.
For the time being, we need to emphasize our defence and work the land as soon as possible. When we can't expand towards the AI anymore, I'd say it's time for war preparations. We can take the land to the north later on.
Let's play it the good fellows, for a while. What do you think?

I.Larkin, what happened? They declared first? Have you finished your 10 turns? Maybe you've asked them to leave or declare?
I am writing my turnlog now, they declare themself first turn.I finish, save attached. Do you whant it by E-mail?

No, thank you. I haven't any problem downloading, though it takes some time.
I've edited my previous post and said my plan. That's why I insisted on having our settlers escorted by 2 spearmen. A new city needs 20 turns for a regular spearman, where in the same time it could built a worker AND walls.
I prefer to pay them cash(do you think gpt is better?). In the 20 turns that we have peace treaty, we can build more units, so they think twice about declaring again or demand tributes.

EDIT: We can lower our science to 90% to get Lit in the same turns as with 100%. After that, we could sell them Lit to get other techs and gpt and have the gold needed to support our army. They're going to built the GL, loosing so many shields :rolleyes:

0 1500 Bc
Production changed: Berlin-> Settler, Leipzig->Warrior, Hamburd->Walls. No Mcmg.
Cathy want 130 g for contact (after neg.), English below writing. Renegotiate peace with English (put res to 0%). She agrees Peace treaty for Writing and 3 gpt or for 6 gpt. Decided to give Writing and 3 gpt. Slide back to 100% research (-6gpt). Move vet warrior from Leipzig to Berlin.
IBT
English declare war! Cheap bastards! Our vet warrior won without loosing hp.
Horse barb appear near archer from North.

1 1475 Bc
Berlin size 4 at least. Mcmg to wheat, game, and BGs.
Vet Warrior attack reg English archer and won again without loosing hp. Two mor warriors at the West. Move Spear to Hamburg, and reg warrior to west mount. Slave worker road. (12 turns).
IBT
2 english warriors move SE, horse barb move SW.
2 1450 Bc
Reg warrior fortifies on west mount. Vet war -> SE. Spear fortifies. Archer North.
Leipzig warrior west.

IBT
two english warriors move NW, horse barb move S.
3 1425 Bc
Berlin Size 5! Mmcmg from forest F to grassland M. Settler in 1. Archer NE. Leipzig warrior west.
IBT
two english warriors move NW. Berlin Settler->Settler.
4 1400 Bc
Mmg Berlin for 5 food surplus. Vet Hamburg warrior NW (two wrr om mount W Hamb)
This was my defence mistake, actually. I could move reg warrior NW and Spear to West mount. Three units could block English entirely. Also that move virtually protect Berlin.
Leipzig warrior west. Archer E
Settler+reg warrior move to Ivory.
IBT
Two English warriors move N. Leipzig build Warrior.->Warrior.
5 1375 BC
Settler+reg warrior move at position. Leipzig warrior arrives to Berlin. Have no Idea what to do with Hamburg. Leave as it is (Spear +reg warr at Hamburg Reg+vet warr on mount). Again my mistake. Proper move would be to send one warrior back to Hamburg…
Archer North. See barb camp.
IBT
Horse barb come to warrior+Settler from North. English move to Spisies.
6 1350 BC
Decisive combats.
Near Hamburg
Vet warrior vs Eng. Reg warrior die Eng promote lose 2 HP.
Reg warrior vs Eng. Reg warrior won, promote lose 1 HP
Reg warrior vs Eng. Reg warrior die, Eng lose 1 HP
Spear vs Eng. Reg warrior won, Eng lose 1 HP
Near Ivory
Reg warrior kill barb Horse, lose 1 HP.
Our military “average” with English but they don’t want to talk.
Found Kenigsberg , send reg warrior from Berlin to Kenigsberg.
Archer move toward barb camp. Hamburg worker move to grassland.
IBT
Wall in Hamburg->worker.
7 1325 BC
Archer attack barb camp. Win, loose 1 HP. Warrior fortify, second Leipzig warrior west. Warrior fortify, Spear to Hamburg.
IBT
Nothing.
8 1300
Archer east.
IBT
Berlin Settler->worker
9 1275 BC
English agree to talk; they up mysticism and want 60 gold for peace.
Postpone.
Second Leipzig warrior move to iron to check area for next City.
Settler alone move behind.
IBT
Leipzig warrior->warrior. (I am not sure, may be worker better).
10 1250 BC
Have no idea where to move troops. Warrior From Iron SE. Left others fortified, things depend will we take peace or not.
Cathy do not sell French contact for all our gold (172).

Suggestions-Recomendation.
I think we can go to to deal with Lis (60 gold for peace). if we build workers our army will not be stronger. Lump sum better, becase she may not "renegotiate" after 20 turns and god knows, how long we will pay 3gpt to her. If "yes" then Leipzig will also build worker. Worker from Hamburg will go to"M" point to mine. You may exersise "settler factory" once, using "Hamburg's Grassland" mine there will ready in 3 turns, so Berlin->worker-> Settler and then as in my algorithm, but use another MINED grassland. Then (In 4 turns, please) Library in Berlin, it is better to have strong low corrupt large City with Library then lot of others. We may build more settlers when Berlin grow up. [It will not be a factory, however]. After Litrature better to have MapMaking. We are not ready to sail yet, but it will be nice to get their WM, AI ALLWAYS knows where barb camps are (If they are on map) it will make defence lot easer. Not sure, shall we trade Literature "at once" or better to get MMking to combine trade with Maps.
Nexp post about improuvment theretory.

Wite dots- future cities. Red line future road. Navy arrows - worker movment.

mine grasslands first road other first.

On a quick view looks like nice turns. :goodjob:


Thanks to you too, Mad-bax. I'll try it. :)

Thanks for the detailed information, I.Larkin. I exercized a lot yesterday for settler factories in epic games(since, the game rules don't allow one to play way past his 10 turns). Keep them coming, until you see that I become better. :goodjob:

I'd make peace treaty with Liz for now. I was thinking to place our next cities clockwise but only from the south-north: better to have a few more cities between them, as I see that they've almost cut our south land. Then, if you agree, we could expand towards the west mountains. In the next wars, it would be tough for the AI to defeat us there: this requires a lot workers for roads/terrain omprovement, but I think is worthing to try, since we would be one step from their core cities. As I've earlier said, I would escort every settler with 2 spearmen from the beginning: better defence for our new cities, and we leave them some room for worker/walls(rather than having to built spearmen in 20 themselves).

Ankka, I'll wait a reply from you. Can you play?

Go ahead. :)

I'll get skipped this time and play after mabellino again if the problem's solved.

I don't understand why we re-negotiated peace with England? They are known for sneak attacks and we just gave them a free tech! Can someone explain why we did this! I was building walls in Berlin just in case they declared on us, they would have been built next turn so would only have delayed settler by a little bit.
War is where I'm weakest but I play a good defensive strategy, very rarely lose a city or units inside it. I thought that even if the english declared we wouldn't lose anything, maybe a warrior or 2, provided our defense was good.
Other than that well done for expanding our territory and putting up a good fight against Lizzie.

Ankka, have you managed to fix your computer issues yet? If so then take your turn before mine so you don't miss too many goes.

This is my "got it". I'll play and post later.

Well, I played the previous turn(I.Larkin's) to see what happened. If I hit “enter” as the save is, in the player’s next turn they’re going to declare. If I “talk” with them and take our peace treaty back, when I try to offer them again peace treaty(“new”), they refuse and they want much more. Maybe I.Larkin took accidentally the peace treaty away from the “active” table? Because I can’t find another explanation. Or, maybe he just wanted to make a new deal(took away our “active” deal), so they leave from our territory without having to warry of declaring? Anyway, that’s past now.

Maybe I.Larkin took accidentally the peace treaty away from the “active” table? Because I can’t find another explanation. Or, maybe he just wanted to make a new deal(took away our “active” deal), so they leave from our territory without having to warry of declaring? Anyway, that’s past now.

No I did it "in purpuse". I naively thought that Lis will care about her reputation and withhold from attack. Now I have "experience".

I don't understand why we re-negotiated peace with England? They are known for sneak attacks and we just gave them a free tech! Can someone explain why we did this! I was building walls in Berlin just in case they declared on us, they would have been built next turn so would only have delayed settler by a little bit.
War is where I'm weakest but I play a good defensive strategy, very rarely lose a city or units inside it. I thought that even if the english declared we wouldn't lose anything, maybe a warrior or 2, provided our defense was good.
Other than that well done for expanding our territory and putting up a good fight against Lizzie.

Ankka, have you managed to fix your computer issues yet? If so then take your turn before mine so you don't miss too many goes.
My calculation shows that walls in Berlin will breake rithm of settler factory. Also, Berlin is our inner City and it dose not need walls. I explained in my previous post why I renegotiate peace with English.

Thanks for the detailed information, I.Larkin. I exercized a lot yesterday for settler factories in epic games(since, the game rules don't allow one to play way past his 10 turns). Keep them coming, until you see that I become better. :goodjob:

I'd make peace treaty with Liz for now. I was thinking to place our next cities clockwise but only from the south-north: better to have a few more cities between them, as I see that they've almost cut our south land. Then, if you agree, we could expand towards the west mountains. In the next wars, it would be tough for the AI to defeat us there: this requires a lot workers for roads/terrain omprovement, but I think is worthing to try, since we would be one step from their core cities. As I've earlier said, I would escort every settler with 2 spearmen from the beginning: better defence for our new cities, and we leave them some room for worker/walls(rather than having to built spearmen in 20 themselves).
May be it is too late, but in your turns you will able to build 2 City, and I think my places are best. I have no idea where you will take so many spears to defend each settler? I thought at night: what will it be better to have large Berlin with Library, Tempel and others or better to leave it at size 4 as Settler Factory but did not find answer.
Also, don't know, shall we sell Literature when it ready or wait and see? I think MM next anyway.
Could we discuss this things? If you did not breake settler factory yet again...

Pre-turn
Leave the archer where he is, to heal. Fortify warrior in Leipzig (we only need 3 spearmen in our front cities and 1 in the ones “inside”[or 1 warrior], but be sure all have spearmen, for the barbarians, as at some point they’re going to have a massive attack). I make peace with Liz and pay 60g, since we have no army to attack and we want to expand for a while and improve the land.

1225BC (1)
Berlin: worker -> settler in 5(keep the 5 food surplus). Hamburg: worker -> barracks in 20. Move worker from Hamburg to mine the grassland west of Berlin. Move worker from Berlin north to connect Konigsburg. Move warrior/settler to the suggested city spot, south of Berlin. I’m going to explore with the archer towards the English – Russian borders. We’re behind England(Mysticism) and Russia(Mysticism, Horseback Riding). Literature in 5.

Ibt:
A barb horse comes inside Konigsberg from north. Worker starts road in Konigsberg: he’s 3 tiles away from the barb horse. Worker starts mining west of Berlin. We found Frankfurt and start worker in 10(then it’ll be walls). Wake warrior outside Konigsberg/Hamburg and move them inside the cities.

1175BC (2)
Barb horse attacks warrior in Konigsberg, loses, and warrior promotes to veteran. Mm Berlin(pop5) to work the grassland and growth in 2. Worker finishes mine east of Hamburg(now barracks in 9) and starts road. Lower science in 90%(still Lit in 2) and raise Lux to 10%. Worker finishes road north of Frankfurt and moves to connect Leipzig.

Ibt
Another barb horse moves inside Konigsberg. I wake 1 veteran warrior from Hamburg to go to Konigsberg for helping eliminating the barb hut(when he finds it).

1150BC (3)
2 workers try to connect Leipzig. Berlin goes to disorder next turn(pop6) and lower science to 80%(Lit in 2) and raise lux to 20%.

1125BC (4)
Barb gets killed in Konigsberg, worker finishes road and goes to connect ivory. Next turn we get Lit. England starts the Oracle. Cathrin knows Mysticism, MM and HR –same with Liz. Drop our science to 10%(97g +16gpt).

Ibt
Liz offers contact with the French for 90g – I refuse. Another barb horse near Kongsberg.

1100BC (5)
We get Literature -> choose Philosophy in 8, science 100%(-3gpt), lux back to 0%. Berlin: settler -> library in 5(we can’t get lib in 4 yet). Leipzig: spearman -> spearman. Konigsberg: worker(moves to begin road for our 6th city) -> walls. Worker starts road for the ivory, warrior gets there to cover him from the barb horse. Fortify settler in Berlin and move the spearman from Leipzig to Berlin. Worker finishes mine east of Hamburg and moves 1west to clear the jungle: we need to “push” Hamburg’s production. Call up Cathrin and trade Lit: she offers(with bargain) Contact with the French + Mysticism + TM + 56g(all they have, she gave 40g at first). Call Liz and she gives TM + HR(but no MM and no gold: they’re broke) for Lit. Call Joan, but I don’t trade yet: she gives only 3g(all she has) for either Lit or HR. We have a strong military vs Russia and France and we’re weak vs the English. Paris is building the Pyramids. England is full of jungles(let them clear it for now, we’ll get improved land later), Russia has better terrain.

Ibt
Barb horse attacks Konigsberg, gets killed.

1075BC (6)
I attack the second barb horse with the vet warrior(protecting our worker), and kill it. Worker starts road west of Kongsberg. Archer continues exploring. Wake one reg warrior to cover worker in Konigsberg, while vet warrior will be searching for barbs to destroy.

Ibt
A reg warrior approaches Leipzig from south.

1050BC (7)
Worker finishes mine west of Berlin, starts road. Vet warrior finds barb camp right north of Konigsberg.

Ibt
A conscript barb horse attacks our vet warrior and wins easily! Another one comes near Konigsberg.

1025BC (8)
Worker connects ivory and goes 2 tiles back to irrigate. Offer Liz WM for WM + 7g and we get a better idea about the land to the west and north. Cathrin wants WM + 160g! Logical, since we don’t know anything from south and her scouts did a good job.

Ibt
Barb warrior attacks Leipzig, gets killed. One barb horse attacks our fortified warrior at the ivory, loses, warrior loses 2hp.

1000BC (9)
Hamburg: barracks -> worker in 4. Spearman/settler travel to future city, warrior finishes road, starts irrigating for new city. Raise lux to 10%, drop sciense to 90%(Phil in 4). Attack barb horse with reg warrior from Konigsberg(leaving it temporarily undefended). Establish an embassy in Paris for 54g.

Ibt
A barb horse comes near Leipzig.

975BC (10)
Berlin: library -> settler in 4. Leipzig: spearman(he’s heading to Frankfurt) -> spearman. Workers finish road to Leipzig, one returns to irrigate, the other is going to the iron mountain in Frankfurt. Worker finishes road west of Berlin, goes to help the worker in Hamburg to clear jungle. Raise lux to 20%, science goes to 80%(still Phil in 2), to keep the citizens of Berlin happy. Reg warrior returns to Konigsberg. Fortified warrior at ivory, goes to clear the barb camp(they caused us a lot of troubles): there’s only 1 conscript warrior there; better take him down before other barb horses are produced. Cathrin is broke, Liz has 18g , and Joan is also broke(you can trade Lit for WM, if you want but no gold).

Summary: We need to have one city near the incense asap, so we don’t care about rasing our lux slider so much. Try have 2 workers to clear the jungle in Hamburg, because we need it’s production. I’d suggest to expand towards England and take those mountains: we’ll take them easier when the time comes. Remember to escort our settlers with at least 1 spearman, send there 1-2 more, later. Connect the iron in Frankfurt and use the worker in production, to help(and also improve the terrain there, too). Better build walls and then something else in our new cities. We need 2 workers together to improve our land, if possible: once is improved we can build our army / city improvements a lot faster. We can improve the land of Konigsberg to build only workers.

I'll try to post the save asap.

Unbelievable :crazyeye: I've made it :goodjob: I've uploaded within 2'!!! What happened :confused: I wish I had every time this kind of uploads.
Here is the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Ankka_SG002_BC975_01.SAV)
My luck just finished. No matter how I try, I can't upload a screenshot.

Good play King Alex, except last turn. I canged production as you see. We need Libraries to expand border. Frankfurt can't build worker because it is size 1, but needs Lib to pick up Inneces.
You broke again "settler factory" but it is OK, I think we do not need it anymore.
Dear Mabel (or Ankka),
1) Please change production as on the image. (LIBraries!!!)
Then micromanage Berlin to build settler in 3 AND grow to size 5 after settler. (First turn as it is, next two turns at 10 shields per turn) ((last turn Berlin grow and will build settler in 3)) Do you understand this mechanics???? IF YOU LEAVE "as it is" real disaster will happend: Granary will be empty when Berlin grow to size 7 and we will lose all his food. BUT if you put 10 shield per turn right now it will be size 4 after settler.
I think it is our "LAST" settler from Berlin, (before war) after it build change to Temple and Spears.
2) Please send spear from Hamburg to Berlin and put Lux to 0% at preturn.
3) Please trade Literature+WM to Joahn for MapMaking+WM, she accept this deal.
DO NOT establish embassy with her, we need money to upgrade.
When Leipzig worker finish road/irrigation send him to Iron to help.
We should start our war soon. Moscow is our target.
We should start to regroupe troops NOW (warriors to Hamburg-Berlin, spears to other Cities). ((Sure, warrior should take barb camp first))
4) Irrigate Ivory, it produce more gold then "plain" plain.
I also recomend to trade Phylosphy to Cathy for her WM.
After phylosphy - Mathematics, may be at 70-80%.
Trade WM every turn we will know where barb camps are.

Dear Alex,
(if you accept crititism) you again did not micromanage OK Berlin. I emphasise: From forest, to Mined grassland. (Hamburg's). So Berlin never work as Settler factory in our game... Also, it is not nessecary to move LUX slide "before" disorder. If City OK at the end of the turn no need to ajust. (this is one of idea of settler foctory). You also miss 1250 BC turn in your turnlog and played 11 turns acctually. I think trade might be more efficient (but as a result it is OK if you'd take MapMaking from Joahn)
Regards, Ivan.

Wow these turn logs are getting complicated!
If Ankka hasn't got his computer problems fixed I'll play next, but I'm going out for a few hours so I'll check when I get home.
Since we're gearing up for war do we need to build archers or horsemen? If horsemen then we'd better get that horse resource inside our boundaries soon (if it's not already there, can't remember the map!)
This is the bit where things could go wrong for me... offensive wars are my weakest area.
@Ivan
If you could be ready with a war strategy (such as how many units, where to attack first etc) then we can review it and whoever gets to play those turns will be able to keep the big picture in mind!
Are we planning on crippling Russia or wiping them out completely?
Back in a few hours

Mab.

You play it, mab. I have been busy for the last two days and haven't been able to do anything for my comp.

Dear I.Larkin:
1) I've built a library in Berlin as you've suggested, that's why I "broke" the settler turns.
2) You're right that I should have used the mine from Hamburg for Berlin to get the settler in 3, so the granary is still in effect but you didn't said anything about using Hamburg's mine, and I didn't want to use that mine when I was playing for not dropping Hamburg's growth.
3) I offered Joan Lit, but she gave only WM and NOT MM, at least in my turns, so I didn't take the deal.
4) I've already established an embassy with France(turn 9).
5) I was thinking the same: somehow I should have finished at 1000BC and I've played 1 turn more :sad: I couldn't spot where, after looking my log. Sorry! I'll play 9 turns next time.
6) Hamburg is a border city; are you sure that we take the spearman from there? The first city that England attacked in the previous war, was Hamburg. Warriors haven't good defence and we are a few turns away from connecting the iron.
7) Everyone has his way of view for the game. Don't you think it is better if we make clear what we want to make and in what order?
You had a plan for settling the surrounding area in your dot map(I'm not so good in mm, but I was better second time I played thanks to your suggestions, don't you think?). We're quiting from that plan for a few turns to built temples and libraries and then settling again or are we quiting completely and prepare for war?
If we're going to prepare for war(after temples and libraries) it is better, IMHO, to wait until they have cities right in our borders, so we grab those cities asap. If we declare while there is a big distance between us and them, we're not going to achieve anything.
I'm a bit confused about the previous :confused: Can you be more specific? It is better to decide what we want from each player's turn. We should all post our ideas and general plan, so the others can understand what we're thinking and how are we thinking. And while one plays his turn, anything can happen, so he must make decision's asap.
mabellino and Ankka should also post their ideas and plans, so we all know what they're thinking.
8) I definetly accept criticism.

EDIT: Sorry for missing 1250BC turn from my log, but the save was from 1250BC(I had a look). I always assume that the save that we get is from the last turn from the previous player(after he has played his last turn, saves and posts). When I started playing, I thought that it was a half turn.
I'll play 9 turns next time.

Dear I.Larkin:
1) I've built a library in Berlin as you've suggested, that's why I "broke" the settler turns.
2) You're right that I should have used the mine from Hamburg for Berlin to get the settler in 3, so the granary is still in effect but you didn't said anything about using Hamburg's mine, and I didn't want to use that mine when I was playing for not dropping Hamburg's growth.
3) I offered Joan Lit, but she gave only WM and NOT MM, at least in my turns, so I didn't take the deal.
4) I've already established an embassy with France(turn 9).
5) I was thinking the same: somehow I should have finished at 1000BC and I've played 1 turn more :sad: I couldn't spot where, after looking my log. Sorry! I'll play 9 turns next time.
6) Hamburg is a border city; are you sure that we take the spearman from there? The first city that England attacked in the previous war, was Hamburg. Warriors haven't good defence and we are a few turns away from connecting the iron.
7) Everyone has his way of view for the game. Don't you think it is better if we make clear what we want to make and in what order?
You had a plan for settling the surrounding area in your dot map(I'm not so good in mm, but I was better second time I played thanks to your suggestions, don't you think?). We're quiting from that plan for a few turns to built temples and libraries and then settling again or are we quiting completely and prepare for war?
If we're going to prepare for war(after temples and libraries) it is better, IMHO, to wait until they have cities right in our borders, so we grab those cities asap. If we declare while there is a big distance between us and them, we're not going to achieve anything.
I'm a bit confused about the previous :confused: Can you be more specific? It is better to decide what we want from each player's turn. We should all post our ideas and general plan, so the others can understand what we're thinking and how are we thinking. And while one plays his turn, anything can happen, so he must make decision's asap.
mabellino and Ankka should also post their ideas and plans, so we all know what they're thinking.
8) I definetly accept criticism.

EDIT: Sorry for missing 1250BC turn from my log, but the save was from 1250BC(I had a look). I always assume that the save that we get is from the last turn from the previous player(after he has played his last turn, saves and posts). When I started playing, I thought that it was a half turn.
I'll play 9 turns next time.
1) It is OK, we do not need Settler Factory anymore. [Too late].
2) I wrote about Hamburg's grassland 20 May, post #113.
3) You may offer Lit+WM, say, but fortunately we still can go for this deal. Hope Mabell will do it.
4)Sorry, miss it. To late to get money back. How long Pyramids due?
5) It is 1200 BC
6) OK, may be warrior instead Spear, but it is not for long. Please, do'n forget to slide Lux to 0% when Lux not necessary.
7) Game is dymamical issue, and I put my "dot map" for discussion rather then "direction". Now time changes and plan changes. Moreover with WM you have we should revise our plans. I think we will go to Conquest, it is faster. We also shuld use time when Russian and French army "weak". It will not be forever.
I think after settler we will NOT build Temple as I suggested previously.
7a)Sure, at the end of the game we will understand each other better. I think we already communicate well, but I whant some ideas from Mabell. Or, at least to know what she will do. Also, Annka as most experience player in our team can give some recomendation even if she can't play. I will post my Ideas - general plan next.

Wow these turn logs are getting complicated!
If Ankka hasn't got his computer problems fixed I'll play next, but I'm going out for a few hours so I'll check when I get home.
Since we're gearing up for war do we need to build archers or horsemen? If horsemen then we'd better get that horse resource inside our boundaries soon (if it's not already there, can't remember the map!)
This is the bit where things could go wrong for me... offensive wars are my weakest area.
@Ivan
If you could be ready with a war strategy (such as how many units, where to attack first etc) then we can review it and whoever gets to play those turns will be able to keep the big picture in mind!
Are we planning on crippling Russia or wiping them out completely?
Back in a few hours

Mab.
We are not going to war right now, but have to start preparation. We will attack with swordmans, so we need money to upgrade and connect Iron. (no horses-archers) Leipzig worker can make road where he is and go to help road Iron.
Did you understand my ideas of micromannaging Berlin? Settler in 3 but grow in 3 as well).
Then do not build temple, as I suggested, just Spear, Spear, warrior...
Also, please micromanage to get 1 Sp in 3, 2 Sp in 2... (Or play 9 turns if unclear...) Please have 2 MP in Berlin. I think we leave Russia with 1-2 City (capture 3 and demand 1-2 for peace treaty). According to your screenshort Moscow have 1 Spear (and I think it is the same while it builds Oracle) so 2 Swords+archer+spear is enough for Moscow. Not sure about Kiev, but I think 3 Swords+Spear also OK. Then the rest will capture St. Peterburg. Wery simple. We have 5 warriors already, (better to have one more veteran) to upgrade, 1 archer and spears. We may whant bit more Spears to defend our land. However Libraries important for reseach and culture, so we need them first.
About Temple in Berlin.
Temple is vest of shiels, simply. Look, it produce 1 happy face, but costs 1 gpt. Lux do the same, but do not need shields. After Iron workers connect Incese abd Berlin will be OK at 10% Lux.
Research Phylo in 2, but use 60%-70% for Math, things depend how much we will get for Phylo. (Russian WM ?) and trade WM? Don't know.
Don't forget Lux 0% and trade MMaking from Joahn.
Regars, Ivan.
I will write long term plan next.

So long term plan is
550 BC war with Russians
350 BC Peace with Russians
310 BC war with French (preferably with Alliance with English)
110 BC Peace with French (if not eleminated)
90 BC Short war with English
10 AD Peace with English
30 AD War with Russians to eliminate.

Got it!
I've had a look at the save and jotted down some ideas both for short term and long term.

Short Term Plans
1. Build libraries where possible
2. Settle 2/3 more cities before getting ready for a war. We need at least a spearman if not spear+walls in each so we can free up our warriors for the offensive.
3. Get the iron hooked up asap, we currently have a slave worker on the iron, I forget how many base worker turns it takes a slave to road a mountain but I know it's a lot! We need 1 or 2 of our workers there to help.
4. As Ivan said, irrigate the ivory to get a food bonus.
5. Attempt to trade Lit to Joan for whatever we can get but pref. MM.
6. Aim for Mathematics next, but have a +ve gpt income to get ready for upgrade costs.
7. Get all warriors to a barracks city ready for upgrades

Longer Term Plans
1.Cripple/ destroy Russians then go for French using newly captured russian cities as a base.
2. Settle several more cities including 1 coastal one for trading via harbour and some naval exploration.
3. Expand in NE direction and claim the peninsula, possible FP location as it's relatively far from Berlin and is fertile land. That desert looks like oil/saltpeter!
4. Consolidate and build military and go after England. Or at least build military until we have a strong/average military compared to them.
5. Get some boats exploring the coast to make new contacts. Send horsemen out scouting for the other civs.

I've marked some potential city sites and targets on the attached picture. Pleased to see I.Larkin and I agree on the site for our second city, means we're on the same wavelength about one thing at least! ;)

All in all we're doing well and it seems you guys will soon be able to teach me about a conquest victory (or at least the prep needed to achieve it!)
I'll play my turns tommorow so you all have chance to read this post.

@Ankka
You've been a bit quiet as regards strategy... how do you think things are going? I hope you manage to get your pc fixed soon, it's a lot harder to follow the game without being able to zoom into cities and explore with your mouse! Good Luck.

PS. I'll play 9 turns this time to get us back on track. I don't mind, especially if it means I.Larkin/ Ankka get to do the fighting with me cheering from the sidelines!

I.Larkin, Qonquest it is then, if you want. Faster to finish the game, right?

It is good that you posted your general plan so me and mabellino can get the idea.
When we're going to war, it's better to declare first, don't you think? Otherwise, we'll mess our reputation and we'll have problems with English - French for trading/gpt.

I agree with your suggestion for attacking Russia first: they're weak right now

If you agree, at some point we must secure a horse resource for future knights. The nearest, is south of Frankfurt, if I remember correctly.

Off topic: you said "she" for Ankka. Is she a female then? If so, I apologize to her for having said "him".

Dear mabellino, DO NOT play 9 turns, please. That was my mistake, so I'm going to play 9 turns next time. I don't want to you to play a turn less and miss the turn you have right to play.

Your plan sounds good to me. We're going for war shortly and then settle more land while we prepare for the French, right?

I'd also like to see what Ankka has to say about the game. and post her plan/strategy.

I.Larkin, how do you find mabellino's plan? Have you more suggestions to make? Is this going to be our plan?

I think except from the general plan, we should decide for each player's turn, what he'll do, before he play.

Got it!
I've had a look at the save and jotted down some ideas both for short term and long term.

Short Term Plans
1. Build libraries where possible
2. Settle 2/3 more cities before getting ready for a war. We need at least a spearman if not spear+walls in each so we can free up our warriors for the offensive.
3. Get the iron hooked up asap, we currently have a slave worker on the iron, I forget how many base worker turns it takes a slave to road a mountain but I know it's a lot! We need 1 or 2 of our workers there to help.
4. As Ivan said, irrigate the ivory to get a food bonus.
5. Attempt to trade Lit to Joan for whatever we can get but pref. MM.
6. Aim for Mathematics next, but have a +ve gpt income to get ready for upgrade costs.
7. Get all warriors to a barracks city ready for upgrades

Good!
1. What do you think about PopRush Libs? (Frankfurt?)
2. I think 2 is OK before war. We whant troops from Berlin, as many as possible. (Please, Micromange!)
3. Exactly.
4. Yes, but not sure, that you should stop worker and send to Ivory.
5. Only for MapMaking! Do not give it "for free".
6. Yes. Trade WM from AI to locate Barb camps and go there to take 25 if possible.
7. Yes, but substute with Spears.
Don't forget to put Lux to 0% and have 2 MP in Berlin. Slide Lux to 10% when Berlin size 7.
PS I disagree with position of 3-7 Cities, but we discuss it later.

Dear I.Larkin, you deserve congratulation for your help with planning and strategizing this game :goodjob: I agree with all your suggestions.

I think the latest posts from all of us, were very easy-to-understand. We should follow that all the time.

1) I.Larkin, Qonquest it is then, if you want. Faster to finish the game, right?

2)When we're going to war, it's better to declare first, don't you think? Otherwise, we'll mess our reputation and we'll have problems with English - French for trading/gpt.

3) If you agree, at some point we must secure a horse resource for future knights. The nearest, is south of Frankfurt, if I remember correctly.

4) Off topic: you said "she" for Ankka. Is she a female then? If so, I apologize to her for having said "him".
1) Will see. It depend, how well war will go.
2) Entering without "Declare" does not hit trade reputation, but it will be more difficult to get RoP.
3) Swordman stronger then horse, will see if we need Knights. (many turns later.)
4) Not sure, acctually. Ankka did not comment my "she" yet.

I reinstalled civ and it should work now, I'll play after mabellino.

I've played 9 turns to get us back on track. I really didn't mind King Alex, cos I was unsure if one or two things have been done correctly. Please read the turn log and Ankka can amend where he/she sees fit.

975BC (turn 0)
Traded lit + WM to Joan for MM and WM.

950BC (1)
Sent another worker to road iron. Slave is now roading iron.
Leipzig worker now building road on spot.
Warrior attacked barb camp and won with no damage. 25gold.. nice!
Sent Archer to Moscow Mountain to keep an eye on them.
Founded Munich -> library in 40t
Adjusted sliders to get Philo in 1t at +1gpt.

Berlin MM:
Hamburg's mine isn't on bonus grassland so no point working this tile for now. Can get +10spt quite easily but settler will be produced in 3 turns and grow in 2. Decided to slow growth down by 1 turn so 3/3. See later for when I realised this was a mistake! :blush: :cry:

Trade WM+1g to Joan for her WM
Buy worker from joan for 25gold
Changed production in Frankfurt to spear as we will not be able to produce a worker for 10 turns (it's only size1)

925BC (2)
French slave sent to help clear jungle.
Worker is sent to iron (will take 3 turns to get there)
Discover Philo but nobody has any cash so do not trade at this point.
Set research to Maths in 10t at +1gpt

900BC (3)
Hamburg builds worker -> library in 20t
Misclick so reload from Auto
Fortify spear in Frankfurt
Worker sent to irrigate ivory
New worker sent to road jungle next to iron so troops can move faster (avoids river crossing)
This is where I notice we will waste 9 shields to build settler in berlin, forgot all about emphasise production giving us that all important extra shield! grrrrrr! :cry: :mad: :blush:

875BC (4)
Send worker to road forest near Leipzig
Send new settler to 2nd city site with warrior to rendevous and spear en route.

IBT:
French are building Great Library, Paris completes Pyramids

850BC (5)
My notes just say zzzzzzzzzzz so nothing important must have happened!

825BC (6)
Trade Philo to Cathy for Code of Laws +TM
Trade Philo to Liz for WM+18g (all she had)
Trade Philo + C.o.L. to Joan for Maths +WM+26g

Now researching Poly in 13turns at +1gpt
Complete road on iron

800BC (7)
Upgrade Berlin warrior to Sword
Fortify new spear.
Decide Frankfurt needs more food so worker gang from Iron sent to clear jungle to E, NE of FF.

Trade WM with Liz for WM
Trade WM with Joan for WM+5g
Cathy wants Maths+25g+WM for her WM. No chance!

775BC (8)
Send sword from Berlin to Moscow outskirts
Swap citizens around in Munich and Konigsberg to allow Munich to grow faster.

750BC (9)
Build Heidelburg, warrior on garrison, spear 2 turns away. Build library? currently building a new spear.
Adjust slider to 1.8.1 -> Poly in 8t at 0gpt

Thoughts:
1. Not sure if Frankfurt really needs to build it's own 2nd spear, library might be better but spear will be complete in 2turns so Ankka gets to decide!
2. Really messed up our settler farm... must have been dozing! I'll try to pay more attention to my counting skills in future!
3. I went for Poly rather than Republic cos Monarchy is a better wartime govt.

Worker tasks:
I've attached a screenshot with some arrows on it:
The turquoise arrows indicate tiles we should clear and irrigate, the blue arrows are unit "go-to's" and the black arrow is the road to connect Heidelberg.

Here's the save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Ankka_SG002_BC0750_01.SAV)

I'm a he, BTW.

I'll play tomorrow..

Thoughts:
1. Not sure if Frankfurt really needs to build it's own 2nd spear, library might be better but spear will be complete in 2turns so Ankka gets to decide!
2. Really messed up our settler farm... must have been dozing! I'll try to pay more attention to my counting skills in future!
3. I went for Poly rather than Republic cos Monarchy is a better wartime govt.

4. Worker tasks:
I've attached a screenshot with some arrows on it:
The turquoise arrows indicate tiles we should clear and irrigate, the blue arrows are unit "go-to's" and the black arrow is the road to connect Heidelberg.

Again, nice play Mabell.
1. Exactly. I even think Library may be Poprushed for 1 Sitizen.
2. What's to be done... In general in this game Berlin micromanage is key issue. Also at last turn (Ankka's preturn) better to put it in "grow in 1" and Swordman will appeare at 1 as well.
3. We are at despotism now and I hope our wars will be short. So Republic much better. Also Republic do not need MPs. Anyway we need Poly to go to MidAge. I hope Ankka will NOT choose Monarchy.
4. Workers should connect Incese first, then clear jungles. Berlin will grow and better to save Lux. Also now it do not need 10% Lux, only next turn. Size 7.
Another points: Way you send warrior to Heidelberg? Spear would be much better. We need more swords for war and have money to upgrade. Way walls in Kenigsberg? Library is much better. Also, second Ivory should be road/ Irrigated. I also think it is better to trade Cathy's WM for tech (Phylosophy), but it is not to late to do it NOW, before Joahn take it for her Math. Sure, then trade WM to Joahn for cash. Not sure, that it is a good idea to put Archer on hills near Moscow. Cathy may see the thread and send more Spears to Moscow.
[excuse me if my tone to straight, English is not my native language]
Regards, Ivan.

Long term strategy.
1) War with Russians. The aim to remove our Science competitor and in long term get Monopoly to Monoteism (Trade for Republic?)
2) Get Currency and Marketplace in Berlin.
3) War with Russians may be short. Just take Moscow-Petersburg. Do not split troops. (See image) We should save our Swords for war with French. We may demand some other Russian City, however.
4) Military road (red line). It will connect Moscow and let it grow (3 Lux we will have!) and help to send troops to Paris.
5) I think we need 10 swords+2 spear to approach and take Paris. May be less, If we manage to get Lis in war with France. Better to do it asap because of Pyramids. (Do not build Granaries!)
6) Two more Cities. 1 - gate to Ocean at the most effective point.
2- is to secure our Military road. Have no idea, however, wihch City will provide settlers for that.

Dear Ankka!
Excuse me for "she". I n Russia it is girl's name. My long term strategy clear, I hope.
At preturn, please
1. Mmnage Berlin to grow at 1 and Swordman will appeare at 1 as well.
2. Trade Cathy's WM for tech (Math), it is not to late to do it NOW, before Joahn take it for her Math. Sure, then trade WM to Joahn for cash.
3. Put Lux to 0%.
4. Set Libs evrywhere (Culture, Techs...) Not sure about poprush, as I woud do.
In turns:
1. Please, do NOT choose Monarchy. (I suggest Currency)
2. Try to connect Incenes asap.
3. Do not start war before 4 swords approach Russian border.
Regards, Ivan

Nice planning. :)


I'll be playing today sometime after school...

Don't you think that we need a bigger SoD? I'd like 1-2 spears with at least 10 swords, if we're going to take Moscow(pop8) and St.Petersburg. This way, the war won't last long. What about Kiev or Minsk? Take those later?

I'm a bit unsure for attacking the French, because their cities would be far long to reinforce them(we don't have that strong army) and could be possible flips in the future.
My plan would be to eliminate Russia(their cities would be the naturally expansion of our nation), and then built our army further and built libraries- in all our cities(temples, if past 7-8pop), while we're preparing for the English. They seem quite offensive and have a strong army already. We could gift a tech to the French for MA vs England. France has not a strong army, so they couldn't take English cities, but, with their help we could cripple England a bit. Then we decide again what to do, according the situation.
I'd like a horse resource real soon(especially if England declares again): with 1-2 horses mixed with our SoD's they could pillage every enemy resource and get back to the safety of the SoD[I'm a bit unsure if this is allowed by the game rules, have to check it].

I.Larkin and Ankka: you're more experienced players than me, so if you want us to stick to I.Larkin's plan, no problem.
Anyway, Russia is going to be first.

I'll have a lot of reading to do on Ivan's posts... wish me luck.

Playing now...

And the turnlog:


750BC [Preturn: Check to see where we are going. Looks good.

I try and do the things Ivan suggested:
MM Berlin to grow in 1.
Trade Cathy's WM for Maths, but she doesn't accept! :eek: How much does she value her WM? This is going to insanity... She would like WM + Maths + 19 gold, but I bargain it down to 5 gold.

So the deal is: Cathy's WM for Maths + WM + 5 gold.

Trade the WM then to Joan for WM + 51 gold.

Set luxtax to 0%.

Change from Spear to lib in Frankfurt.
Change Konigsberg from Sprea to lib.

Press enter and hope I didn't forget anything...

IBT: Berlin sword > settler.

730BC [1]: Watch the automated units run around...

Set lux back to 10% to prevent Berlin from rioting.

710BC [2]: Move some units, some others are automated and move around...

IBT: Cathy wants to do a TM swap. I agree.

Barb warrior appears near Konigsberg.

690BC [3]: :sleep:

IBT: Barb comes to camp beside Konigsberg.

Berlin Settler > swordsman.
Leipzig lib > sword.

670BC [4]: Assign some worker jobs.

IBT: The warrior in Konigsberg kills the attacking barb easily.

Chinese complete the Oracle in Beijing.


650BC [5]: Lower lux to 0. I am also able to take down science a notch to 70%, Poly still in 3.

IBT: A barb horse appears near Leipzig.

The Russians start the Great Library.
So do the English.

630BC [6]: The new settler is almost at the coastal city site. I protect her with a warrior in case the barb decides to atack her.

IBT: The barb horse attacks Leipzig, but the spear there wins easily.

610BC [7]: I am able to lower sci tax to 30%, which gives us 18gpt, Poly in 1.

IBT: Russians build a town just in our attack path...

A barb horse appears near Konigsberg.

We research Poly > Currency.

Berlin sword > settler.

590BC [8]: Settle Nuremberg, our coastal city > library.

Set sci tax to 80%, which gives us Currency in 11 turns @ 1gpt.

IBT: Barb horse is killed by reg warrior in Konigsberg.

570BC [9]: :sleep:

IBT: Leipzig sword > sword.
Hamburg lib > worker.

550BC [10]: Nothing really.

Next better player will get to start :hammer: Russia.

mabellino
Ankka - just played
I.Larkin - UP!
King Alexander - on deck...



Save to the next better player (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Ankka_SG002_BC0550_01.SAV)

Got it. I thought war will be already. And I will make a honorable peace.
Will write my thought later.

I would have attacked, but I had only 3 swords & an archer on the front, so I left it to you. :)

I will play late tonight. I change production as on the Image. I think I will declare with 3 Sword and archer and bring next trough near Tbilisi to Moscow in shortest way. It is better to have Tbilisi and Petersburg "alive", so I think better to "demand" them then capture. I send Heidel'berg warrior back and send Lipzig spear to barb camp. After Currency Republic.

War with France. It is better to do before Republic will descoverd, also until Paris bound to Greate Library. King Alex, If you have Paris Image, could you estimate when GL will finished?

Unfortunately, I don't have an image from Paris with GL. When I established an embassy, Paris had a 12spt production and started the GL in mabellino's 4th turn.
With Ankka's 10 turns, that's a total of 14 turns later, and maybe now they have mined those extras BG's and is currently making 16spt(at least, without any other mined grassland). The GL costs 400 shields.
I'd say it needs about 8-12 turns to complete the GL(unless all the workers have developed the surrounding area :) and produces even more spt).
France is an industrious civ, so I woudn't be surprised if they build the GL within 10 turns(or even less): it depends on how fast they've developed the area near Paris.

EDIT: We can investigate Paris, but that would cost us about 2/3 of our fortune.

Unfortunately, I don't have an image from Paris with GL. When I established an embassy, Paris had a 12spt production and started the GL in mabellino's 4th turn.
With Ankka's 10 turns, that's a total of 14 turns later, and maybe now they have mined those extras BG's and is currently making 16spt(at least, without any other mined grassland). The GL costs 400 shields.
I'd say it needs about 8-12 turns to complete the GL(unless all the workers have developed the surrounding area :) and produces even more spt).
France is an industrious civ, so I woudn't be surprised if they build the GL within 10 turns(or even less): it depends on how fast they've developed the area near Paris.

EDIT: We can investigate Paris, but that would cost us about 2/3 of our fortune.
Good calculs, Alex. That mean, that we will get both, Pyramids and GL. Also, that means, we should start war with France right after war with Russians. (Capture Orlean, make alliance with Lis and wait for reinforsment).

Ok, then build as many swords we can get in those turns, send 1(or 2) spears in the captured cities, so we can free swords for further action.

Ok, then build as many swords we can get in those turns, send 1(or 2) spears in the captured cities, so we can free swords for further action.
Will do. Wish me a luck.
Ivan.

Playing now

0 550 BC
Production changed:
Berlin: Sword, Leipzig: worker, Nuremberg: Galley, Kingsburg: Library, Hamburg: Sword. Send warrior from Nuremberg to Leipzig, Send Leipzig spear to barb camp, send reg warrior to Berlin. Upgrade warrior in Hamburg.
IBT
Barbarian move to Munich. Frankfurt Lib->Catapult, MMg for better tile.
1 530 BC
Continue to move troops. Reg warrior MP in Berlin, send spear to Kenigsburg.
Workers directed to connect Incense. Spear kill barb near Munich. Leipzig worker to BG.
IBT Leipzig worker->spear. Berlin: sword->sword.
2 510 BC
Leipcig workers to BG, another Road, and troops move.
Move 1 sword to Russian mount to see reaction.
IBT
Horse barb attack spear near camp die, take 1 hp.
No reaction from Russians.
3 490 BC
Check Russians they have Poly.
Trade WM with Russian, French and Lis. Got about 30 Gold. Fortify spear near camp.
Declare war and move troops to Russian land.
IBT
Nothing.
4. 470 BC spear took barb camp and promote to elite. Troops closer to Moscow, other marchin ignore Tbilisi. French have construction but don’t want to change it for Poly. Trade WM to Lis and Joahn (+1g).
IBT workers run to Moscow.
5. 450 BC
3 swords and archer approach Moscow without combat. Other troops marching south.
(See image)
Send Kengsberg spear to barb camp. Elite spear goes home.
IBT
Discover Currency. Republic 100% 12 turns (we connect incense)
6. 430 BC
One more sword came to near Moscow. Siege next turn. Other troops south. Elite move to mount for observation. Kenig spear to camp. Send Berlin Spear to Kenig. Swordsman fortify in Berlin (MP). Trade Joahn Construction+WM+29 gold (she had 40) to Poly+WM+Currency. We both MidAge now. Lis below 3 Tech (Poly, Curr, Constr.)
IBT
24=8x3 horse barb appear near Kenigsberg! (see image)
7. 410 BC
Move spear to forest for better protection from barbs. Siege Moscow. Two swords redlined 1 die but Moscow ours! (2 workers 7 resistors). Move archer and sword to Moscow to quiet resistors. Other troops south, workers from Moscow to road hill for faster troops motion. Put governor in Moscow. MMg Kenig to get worker in 1 turn.
IBT.
Barbarians attack spear in forest, he kill 4 and die.
8. 390 BC
Fortify sword to Kenig, fortify spear. Worker from kenig improve Munich. Send sward back to Berlin for MP. Sent redlined sword to Moscow, Send healthy sword and Archer to Forest near Peterburg. Lis discover construction. Take Governor from Moscow let them food.
IBT
20 barbs attack Kenig, about 12 dies, 1 redlined. The rest destroy Walls, kill 2 citizens and take in total about 25 gold. Republic again in 11 turns. Moscow riot, I don’t care.
9. 370 BC
Set walls again in Kenig, pull troops to Petersburg (4/4 and ¾ swords in the forest, sword and archer to City). Send spear to Kenig.
IBT
Redlined Barb take 13 gold from Kenig.
10. 350 BC
Now have 3 swords and Archer near Petersburg. Siege next turn. Moscow have only 1 Resistor, Put Governor Back. Send spear to barb camp near Kenig.
IBT
Nothing at least.
11. 330 BC. I want finish war, so I play one more turn, hope Alex excuse me.
Siege Petersburg 1 sword dies, ¾ lose 1 hp but we get City alive! That’s all we need from Cathy! Resistors in Moscow ends, poprush settler (2 Citizens lost)+2 will gone next turn. (but it is OK, Moscow very fertile area and corrupted City.) I think we will poprash spears in Moscow each 2 turns. Put Governor, please. Make peace with Cathy for Smolensk, Tbilisy 10 gold and WM. (We were close to + Sevastopol, but who knows, how close. She insulted for Minsk and doubt for Odessa alone. Anyhow, we got excellent strategic position. Poprush Lib in Heidlberg. That’s all.
Oh, I forget that poprash Galley in Nurember and send it to scout, nothing interesting found. And trade WM each turn to refresh for +1 gold normally. No new barb camps appears in close area.

Terrain to develope

I think 3 swords and archer may take Orlean if attack NOT across the river. Better to have 4th on forest, just in case. Use fastest route please. My initial thought was to send spear to Smolensk, but now I think it is better to send him to Horse togeteher with settler from Moscow. Horsmans will help to scout area NW and deal with camps faster. If yes, set to Horse first.
If Minsk expand to horse put City 1 tile south or SW. (Horse sould be our).
Poprush spear in Smolensk, then build warrior. Poprush spears in Moscow then if possible.
Red line new plan for military/trade road.
Regards, Ivan.

Dear Alex and Mabell, are you ready to real war? (I mean to Paris in allianse with English?) Or better to make some another plan? Please reply.
Ivan.

Nice job. :goodjob:


But what's the point in attacking France too now? I never really got it... :hmm:

Good job Ivan :goodjob: You know the arts of war ;)
I'm at work and can't make a draw map, when I get home we'll see. If I can't upload my map, I'll send it to you by e-mail(still having difficulties uploading an image), and you can upload it.
Right now, we need 2 spears in St.Petersburg and another 2 in Moscow. Moscow can provide some spears(if it can't build more than 1-2, then I'll change the production to workers and starve the city). For taking Orleans and Paris, we'd need a much larger army, and attack them when the SoD is in position to strike: 3-4 spears combined with as many swords possible, while our cities continue to send reinforcements.
I'll try to make a MA with England against France(even gift them for a MA).
1) Paris is a big city and we must have our SoD ready before striking.
2) I don't want England to take Paris(Pyramids and GL soon). England can "soften" them a bit. I definetly want 3 spears for defending Paris(when and if we captrure it), so our swords can clean out the red-lined units, until we make peace.
Don't forget that if we get out of our MA with England sooner than 20 turns, they're going to be furious with us.

Wow I'm away for one day and miss all the action! Great play there I.Larkin! :goodjob:
I agree with King Alex that we need to consolidate and build up our army before attacking the French, I'd like to wait until they've built the GL before we attack them, who knows we might even get a few techs from it!
One thing I missed was where the Russian capital jumped to... anyone know? Hopefully it was far from Moscow so flips will be less of a problem!
I'm at work now too but will examine the save when I get home and post any thoughts I have then.

Once again :D :goodjob: :king:

I haven't looked at the save, so I don't know how many swords we have(we'd need 3-4 spears to guard the French cities we take).
I'll have a look, and I'll decide how much time we need before invading.

Dear I.Larkin:
1) Do you propose to settle ON the horse? Because, it's 1 tile to the west from Minsk and when founded, it'll have NONE east tiles(the lines are the suggested travel path, if I understood correctly). If you said it in purpose, I assume, that after a while we'll destroy Minsk, so our city can expand and grow.
Here is what I'd suggest: Minsk is already size 2 and we have no fear of razing it. I'd settle 1 tile west of the horse, so we get the horse, and also get Minsk later on, what do you think?
2) You forgot to post the save :)

He doesn't *need* to post the save. The latest save is always available form the download link in my sig.

Thanks, mad-bax, I forgot it :blush:

That helps if he uploaded the save to the server. If he didn't, you'll only see the one uploaded by me...

That helps if he uploaded the save to the server. If he didn't, you'll only see the one uploaded by me...
He uploaded it to the server :)

Good job Ivan :goodjob: You know the arts of war ;)
1)Right now, we need 2 spears in St.Petersburg and another 2 in Moscow.
2)Moscow can provide some spears(if it can't build more than 1-2, then I'll change the production to workers and starve the city). For taking Orleans and Paris, we'd need a much larger army, and attack them when the SoD is in position to strike: 3-4 spears combined with as many swords possible, while our cities continue to send reinforcements.
3) I'll try to make a MA with England against France(even gift them for a MA).
1a) Paris is a big city and we must have our SoD ready before striking.
2a) I don't want England to take Paris(Pyramids and GL soon). England can "soften" them a bit. I definetly want 3 spears for defending Paris(when and if we captrure it), so our swords can clean out the red-lined units, until we make peace.
3a)Don't forget that if we get out of our MA with England sooner than 20 turns, they're going to be furious with us.
1-2) We have 7 swords+archer in Russia now and Moscow will poprush 2 spears in 4 turns, and Smolensk 1. Also spear from Hamburg will come soon. I think it is a good opportunity to start war at your turn 3.
Statistically we loose 1 sword for City and I hope 6 swords+archer will be enought to take Paris. I think we can take a risk to defend Petersburg with 1 Spear+warrior that appears at 10 turns. We also may poprush second spear there. Please, do not delay, French also build there army. Better raze Orlean not to care about its defense.

3) Poly is reasonable gift, also sometimes RoP make deal cheaper. They even may agree "for free" if French annoy them already.

1a) I think 6 swords+archer is enough, and Paris will be ours at 13-14 turns. We will stay at "defense" war 5-7 turns after until deal with Lis expire. I think swords can defend Paris. (Lis will help). We have no spears to defend Paris.
2a) Lis have no swords, and Archers are hopeless against spears in large City. But Lis will secure us against French counterattack.
3a) That is the reason to start war asap, to minimize time at war at Republic.

Nice job. :goodjob:


But what's the point in attacking France too now? I never really got it... :hmm:
1) According to Alex calculation GL in Paris will be at turns 4-6 from now. Then Paris will build up military. BTW, Alex, are there barracks in Paris? How many spears was there when you establish Embassy?.
2) The best would be to take Paris next turn after GL, but we are already late, I am affraid.
3) Now we have 7 Swords+Archer to attack, it is good chance to test fortune. Our "next" army will be ready at position at 20-30 turns from now, we cant wait so long.
4)We should minimaze time at war at Republic. I think we will at republic in 14-17 turns.
5)It is important to drag English to war. They have no Sword, but I'd like French-English Archers kill each others. Also it will secure us from war with England.
6) There is the Pyramyds in Paris, and it will ensure fast growth of our Cities. We may also benefit from GL.
7) We may demand some "fur" French City at Peace Treaty.
I think these 7 reasons "for war" is enough. Do you have something "against"?

Wow I'm away for one day and miss all the action! Great play there I.Larkin! :goodjob:
1)I agree with King Alex that we need to consolidate and build up our army before attacking the French, I'd like to wait until they've built the GL before we attack them, who knows we might even get a few techs from it!
2) One thing I missed was where the Russian capital jumped to... anyone know? Hopefully it was far from Moscow so flips will be less of a problem!
3) I'm at work now too but will examine the save when I get home and post any thoughts I have then.

Once again :D :goodjob: :king:
1) See my posts to Annka and Alex. We have nothing to "consolidate" and wait for.
2) It jums to Kiev. We have supreme culture on Russians, (Not for French BTW), so flip risk is minimal. I poprush settler, however to reduce it. Hope Alex will poprush Spears.
3) Could you, please think how to transfer workers from Frankfurt area to Hamburg area? We also needs road to connect Hamburg-Tbilisi.
I am affraid that what I did with workers was not optimal. (I was concentrated on war mainly).
PS. I hope Alex will make war simple to you, but what do you think If I ask you to take Paris? GL should be ready there...

Dear I.Larkin:
1) Do you propose to settle ON the horse? Because, it's 1 tile to the west from Minsk and when founded,
2)it'll have NONE east tiles(the lines are the suggested travel path, if I understood correctly). If you said it in purpose, I assume, that after a while we'll destroy Minsk, so our city can expand and grow.
Here is what I'd suggest: Minsk is already size 2 and we have no fear of razing it. I'd settle 1 tile west of the horse, so we get the horse, and also get Minsk later on, what do you think?
3) You forgot to post the save :)
1) Yes, ON the horse it is SW from Minsk, not in it's small square. But I worry about Minsk culture expansion. In this case 1 tile South from horse, it is also on the river and near BG.
2) Did not understand what you mean.
3) Sorry, was so tierd. I post it to MadBax, however.

I'll play soon. I'll try to follow your suggestions.
For the new city: if we settle on the horse, we will not have the 3 tiles from the city's north side because it'll be city-Russian tile-Minsk that's what I meant. So, maybe it's better to settle 1 tile south of the horse.
We can raze Minsk later, though, so we can maximize the city's growth and production.
So, what are you suggesting?

EDIT: I agree with your suggestions and planning so far. We have to stay on the defence once we capture Paris.

Dear Alex, here is my detailed plan, sorry if it is to instructive and opimistic.
On preturn:
Change Leipzig back to swordman, better to have Leipzig the same size as Berlin and we have enough workers in Leipzig area.
On tun 1
Send Swords archer toward to Orlean. Send Berlin worker to build Hamburg-Tbilisi road. Send all singel workers from Frankfurt area to do the same. Poprush Spear in Smolensk. send one sword from Moscow to Petersburg.
Move Settler-Spear to horses. Chande production in Frankfurt to GL, say to ensure forest will come to Leipzig. Don't forget to set back to catapult next turn! Put lux to 0%!. Put 2/4 sword in Petersburg to heal.
Turn 2
Pull troops south and toward to Orlean (on the hill). Poprush Spear in Moscow. Set Smolensk to warrior.
Turn 3
Declare war to France and move to forest near Orlean (archer+3 swords) 4th sword on hill. Make alliance with English vs France, pay minimun, may be RoP will be enough and even profitble.
Turn 4
Do not attack across the river! Move troops west. Send Second sword from Moscow to Petersburg.
Turn 5
Attackk and raze Orlean. Direct worker to Peterburg, to Build Peterburg - Paris road. Build City on Horses. Try to take Barb camp near Kenig.
Turns
6-9 pull troops at Petersburg-Paris Area, Moscow-Tbilisi-Hambug may be left "undefended". In fact Marshing troops ensure virtual protection. Fortify swords to heal, cover them by fresh swords, send spears from Moscow to Petersburg.
After Republic- Engineering. Poprush where sensible and revolt.
Scout galley, Trade WM every turn. Build military road.
Regads Ivan.

I'll play soon. I'll try to follow your suggestions.
For the new city: if we settle on the horse, we will not have the 3 tiles from the city's north side because it'll be city-Russian tile-Minsk that's what I meant. So, maybe it's better to settle 1 tile south of the horse.
We can raze Minsk later, though, so we can maximize the city's growth and production.
So, what are you suggesting?

EDIT: I agree with your suggestions and planning so far. We have to stay on the defence once we capture Paris.
It is better on Horse to Start Horseman NOW. We will raze Minsk later. If you build near we will need worker. Big delay.

Ok, thanks I.Larkin. I'll play and post soon.

How things, King Alex? Any problems?

Pre-turn
Change Leipzig to sword

310BC (1)
Berlin: worker -> sword, send the worker to start Hamburg-Tbilisi road. Pop-rush spear in Smolensk, send 2 workers from Franfurt to help for the road. Our galley goes next to a barb galley and also sees a barb horse. Send sword from Moscow to Petersburg, set to spear, spear/settler are on their way to find horse city. Change Frankfurt to GL(so it won’t “take” the shields from the forest). Hamburg: spear(move towards Moscow) -> sword. Send catapult towards Hamburg. Change Konigsburg from walls to spear and send the spear outside the city towards barb camp. Drop Lux to 0%.

Ibt
Barb galley attacks our galley, loses, galley promotes to vet, but another barb galley comes and sinks our galley. 3 Russian spearmen move next to Moscow.

290BC (2)
Change Frankfurt to catapult. Pop - rush spear in Moscow. Set Smolensk to warrior and fortify the spear(1 French warrior 2 tiles away and 2 more are in the borders of Orleans.). Trade WM with France, England gives 1g.

270BC (3)
Moscow: spear (fortify him)-> spear, order sword towards Petersburg.
England won’t sign a MA vs France NO MATTER WHAT!(I tried offering them 2 techs, RoP, gold, but Liz don’t agrees). I enter inside France.

Ibt
Joan asks to remove our units, I declare. Barb horse attacks spear near Konigsburg, loses, spear loses 2hp.

250BC (4)
Change Hamburg to spear, because it’s undefended and Liz won’t help us. Berlin: sword -> sword. Try one more time with Liz, and she ACCEPTS to sign against France. I offer MA + Poly for MA vs France + 27g + WM +TM. Change Hamburg to sword again.

Ibt
1 French archer comes out from Orleans, attacks 1 sword from our SoD and kills him, retreats inside the town.

230BC (5)
Sword attacks 1st spear in Orleans(not behind the river), loses, spear at 1/3. Sword attacks 2nd spear, wins, loses 2hp. Archer attacks and kills French spear, Orleans left with an Archer.

Ibt
Our fortified spearman(to heal) near the barb camp outside Konigsberg gets attacked by 2-3 barb horses and gest killed.
Paris completes the GL. London switches to the Great Wall and builds it.
210BC (6)
We find Cologne ON the horse. Orleans got reinforced by another spear. 1 sword and 1 archer got killed while attacking French spear, but a sword standing in the forest kills the spear. I don’t liked it: our SoD is toasted. Reinforcements are on their way, though. We have 2 swords outside Orleans, 2 French warriors standing outside the city. 2/4 sword attacks, kills the archer, razes Orleans

Ibt
2 French warriors attack 2/4 sword, both lose, sword promotes to Elite and is at 1/5hp.
1 barb horse approaches Konigsberg(undefended), but it’s 3 tiles away, and Konig completes spear next turn.

190BC (7)
Munich: catapult -> walls. Hamburg: sword -> sword. Berlin: sword -> sword. I won’t kill the French warrior fortified inside Petersburg, because the French have horses and the city will be undefended, so I’ll not risk it. 2 barbs, warrior/horse, approach south of Leipzig: let’s hope they attack the fortified Elite spear on the mountain.

Ibt
Leipzig riots (pop7) and I raise the lux to 10%. Barb warrior/horse attack the spear and get killed. 2 barb horses inside Konig.

170BC (8)
3 swords(2 wounded) head to Paris.

150BC (9)
1 French settler/warrior stand next to our 3 swords(maybe we ignore them for the time being and take that city later, maybe we want to kill them, you decide).
We get Republic, set to Engineering.
I.Larkin: I know that you’ve said to revolt, but we’re in war, so I’ll stop playing here. Mabellino will get the 1 turn that she missed the previous time(my mistake), and we’ll decide what to do next.
It is TOO MUCH for me to write all these, maybe it’s better to tell our plan in general and post the log with only the things that are important.
NOTE to mabellino: I HAVEN’T PLAYED the 9th turn. The save is from it’s start. So, you’ll play the 9th turn, and 10 more.




Here is the SAVE (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Ankka_SG002_BC0150_01.SAV)

Dear Ankka, two things I'd like to discuss.
1) We are at MidAge now and should submit short summury to spoiler.
Will you do it please?
2) We are about to enter to long term war and at war somebody should be real "comander in cheaf". I would like to apply to this post.
Regards, Ivan

Pre-turn
Change Leipzig to sword

1) England won’t sign a MA vs France NO MATTER WHAT!(I tried offering them 2 techs, RoP, gold, but Liz don’t agrees). I enter inside France.

Ibt
Joan asks to remove our units, I declare. Barb horse attacks spear near Konigsburg, loses, spear loses 2hp.

250BC (4)
Change Hamburg to spear, because it’s undefended and Liz won’t help us. Berlin: sword -> sword. Try one more time with Liz, and she 2) ACCEPTS to sign against France. I offer MA + Poly for MA vs France + 27g + WM +TM. Change Hamburg to sword again.

3) We get Republic, set to Engineering.
I.Larkin: I know that you’ve said to revolt, but we’re in war, so I’ll stop playing here. Mabellino will get the 1 turn that she missed the previous time(my mistake), and we’ll decide what to do next.
It is TOO MUCH for me to write all these, maybe it’s better to tell our plan in general and post the log with only the things that are important.
NOTE to mabellino: I HAVEN’T PLAYED the 9th turn. The save is from it’s start. So, you’ll play the 9th turn, and 10 more.

Good play, in general, but for Paris we need more swards. I think heald in Paris-Petersburg and 3 More that near Tbilisi will be enough.
1) You should declare first, then ask for alliance and enter France.
2) Did you try to offer RoP for Alliance? sometimes it is work.
3) I agree, next turn to revolt will be better. We will have 2 Warriors (Tbilisi and Petersburg) and will manage to finish military road. Moscow and Peterburg will benefit then of Lux.
Mabel, Please:
In "preturn" kill elite warrior with settler, we need this workers to build road, poprush Galley in Nurenberg, kill barb horse ond so on.
On Next turn finish road near Tbilisi and then revolt. Put swards on future road.
Change walls to catapults, please. Micromanage to get Tax collectors. Upgrade reg Warr in Berlin, send sword+Spear to sort out barb camp near Kenig. Retreeat 3 swords from Paris to heal, cover by spear. Connect Colone to Tbilisi. Improve Hamburg... Lot's to do even at Anachy. Trade WM!
Regards, Ivan

Dear I.Larkin:
1) I ruined our reputation, but we'll be able to trade in the future(though, it'll have to pass around 20 turns, say, if we wanted to trade a luxury).
2)I offered Liz EVERYTHING and she didn't accepted.

I was thinking the same: to retreat the 3 swords inside Paris' borders and fortify them to heal, wait for the spear in Petersburg to join the SoD. We'll need AT LEAST 6-8 (full hp's)swords to capture Paris, IMHO.
The barbs near Konig started to get into my nerves! 1 spear + 1-2 swords should do the job: maybe there is another camp in the nearby are, because the 2nd barb horse who killed our spear, didn't came from the camp we see. There is another barb camp-hidden- to the south, near Franfurt.
I executed your plan and razed Orleans, but the moment after I was sorry for doing so: we could have kept the city, as we'd not want Paris not to be accesible and need a RoP to get there(because, England will try to settle to those 2 ivories - France is trying already). Maybe we settle there first? If we allow the Elite warrior/settler to find a city where Orleans were, we can capture that city immediately, so we don't have to produce a settler ourselves.
When we get Paris, send there spears and defend until the 20 turns of our MA with England have passed, and make peace asap.
I'm not so sure about revolting while in war, especially with a non-industrious civ.
Since we've started this war to take Paris(Pyramids, GL), we sould go all the way and capture it.

Ankka, please post some strategy/plan for what you'd think it's best for our situation: I know, you weren't that positive about this war, but now it's done.

@King Alex
Did you declare war on France before asking Liz for an alliance? One civ needs to be at war with the target civ before another civ will accept an MA against the target. Eg, Liz and Joan could be at war and Liz would then sign an alliance with you if you wanted to join in against Joan. This might explain the difference between the two offers you made to her.

About Orleans (or area where it used to be!), if we want to capture that city we'll have to wait for it to grow to pop2 otherwise the autoraze will remove it. Might be an idea to have a second stack of 3spear+sword+settler to go and settle that location if we're that desperate to grab it.

I'll be playing my turns tonight when I get home. I'll examine the save and post what I intend to do before I play.
If anything drastic happens then I'll pause playing and come and tell you guys about it so we can plan our next moves together.

@I.Larkin, your posts on the military strategy have been really useful and well thought out, don't feel like you've been taking over!

OK I've looked at the save and have a few ideas.

1. Kill the french settler, 2 workers would be very handy to help connect all our cities (and those horses!)
2. Regroup and take Paris when we have 6-7 swords (+spears) ready
3. I'm hesitant to go into anarchy until we have taken Paris, we need to be able to build units during the war and I'm not sure what the earlier transition to Republic will gain us.
4. I'd like to capture Rheims as well so that Paris isn't too isolated! I hate all that pink encroaching on our land!
5. What are those catapults doing? are we using them for defense or offense?

I'm going to play a couple of turns now, will post an update soon.

OK I've looked at the save and have a few ideas.

1. Kill the french settler, 2 workers would be very handy to help connect all our cities (and those horses!)
2. Regroup and take Paris when we have 6-7 swords (+spears) ready
3. I'm hesitant to go into anarchy until we have taken Paris, we need to be able to build units during the war and I'm not sure what the earlier transition to Republic will gain us.
4. I'd like to capture Rheims as well so that Paris isn't too isolated! I hate all that pink encroaching on our land!
5. What are those catapults doing? are we using them for defense or offense?

I'm going to play a couple of turns now, will post an update soon.
We will benefit from Republic! For example you may rush for cash barracks in Petersburg and upgrade to Swords!. Please send Hamburg's catapults and Tbilisi warrior to SPtb as well. Heal swords outside French border! Hire scietist in Smolensk and put research to 0%. Upgrage reg warrior in Berlin and send him together with spear to sort out barb camp. Finish military road. Poprush galley in Nurenberg and revolt, please.

See image. If you play OK you may take Paris at turn 9!

Dear Mabel, please do not delay Paris! English have Iron and they can be first. I think 5 Swords+warrior+spear is enough to take Paris and hold until 3 more swords will come. I think we may take Lion as well. Leave Moscow-Tbilisi-Hamburg undefended! There is no threat to this Cities! Petersburg may be also left "undefended" for one turn 2 spears will come next.
I recomend to move 2/5 sword to Heal point first and use 3/4 sword to cover French workers. 4/4 sword that kill Settler will go to heal point as well. I think first stack can move to Paris coverd by spear at turn 4 or five. Elite and next sword one turn after.
Is it clear? Ivan

OK I've looked at the save and have a few ideas.

1. Kill the french settler, 2 workers would be very handy to help connect all our cities (and those horses!)
2. Regroup and take Paris when we have 6-7 swords (+spears) ready
3. I'm hesitant to go into anarchy until we have taken Paris, we need to be able to build units during the war and I'm not sure what the earlier transition to Republic will gain us.
4. I'd like to capture Rheims as well so that Paris isn't too isolated! I hate all that pink encroaching on our land!
5. What are those catapults doing? are we using them for defense or offense?

I'm going to play a couple of turns now, will post an update soon.
1.Exactly! Don't forget to kill barbarian as well.
2. I think 5 swords+2 spear +warrior is enough fo this task. Do not delay. Manualy send Hamburg-Tbilisi swords vea new road.
Leave Moscow indefended and send Spear to S-Pburg. Leave Psburg undefended as well 2 spears will come next turn. send Haburg's catapult to Psburg, upgrade Warrior in Berlin, send Leipzig sward to Psburg...
3. We will benefit from republic! At republic we can cash rush barracks and units in remote Cities (Petersburg, Paris) Change Clowns to Tax Collectors and one for Scientist, put reseach to 0%.
We even "benefit" from Anarchy as we will not need MPs. Send Berlin reg sword+spear to barb camp. Do not be dogmatic about "leave City undepended". However, becase units are due next turn (Tbilisi, Berlin, Petersburg) it will be better to revolt next turn. Also road near Tbilisi should be finished before revolt: Moscow Tbilisi and Peterburg will benefit Iron and Lux then. Poprush Galley in Nuremberg - we should use "despotizm advantage". Change Walls to Catapults!
4. It would be better if English capture Rheims and we will take it again. It is more important to take Lyons-Marsel for Fur.
5. Send catapults from Hamburg to Petersburg, we will see. Chage Walls in NW Cities to Catapults for defence.

OK so refreshing this page often is quite useful!
I've played my turns and think I've made good progress.

Quick Summary
Score is 368 (we are 1st)
I am proud to report we have a great leader (Barbarossa) and our troops have been inspired and strengthened.
I haven't had a revolution yet because I didn't think we had enough units. We can now build horsemen (we have 4 and a few on the way) see attached military advisor screen for an "at a glance" of our military.

@I.Larkin
I didn't see your posts until I had already played. Sorry! :blush: I didn't have enough swords near Paris until turn 9/10 so I've left the attack to the next player (Ankka?) The units seemed to take ages to get there because we don't have engineering yet and there's a lot of rivers to cross!

Turn Log
150BC (0)
Send workers to road to Tblisi
Attack elite French warrior. Win with no damage! :D " new workers are sent towards St Pete's
Send Leipzig sword to cover Nuremburg as lots of barb activity in this sector.
Pop rush galley in N.Burg to explore coast to south.

IBT
Barb horse attacks spear, loses, we lose 1hp

130BC (1)
Send galley off on it's voyage of discovery
Send spear near FFurt to mountain as a lookout for barbs.
Workers connect Tblisi, send them to connect Cologne (horses)
Sword in Moscow sent towards the front. Warrior in Berlin upgraded to Sword.
Decide not to have a revolution as need more production.

IBT
Liz contacts us, trade her WM for ours +1g

110BC (2)
Munich completes walls ->sword in 10t. I felt these were important given the barb camps near here.
Heidelburg completes walls -> spear in 20

IBT
Barb horse attacks K'Berg and redlines our spear. I breathe again!

90BC (3)
Send Berlin spear to St. Pete's
We now have 1x elite sword, 3xvet. swords and 1x spear outside Paris (all healed) with 3x vet sword and 1 spear nearby (en route)

70BC (4)
Cologne (+horses) now connected. Change production to Horsemen in several towns (can't remember which)
Attack barb galley, win no damage or promo
Accidently move galley onto sea square, hold breath :eek:
Trade WM with Cathy and Liz for their WM's but no gold :(

50BC (5)
Get workers to chop forest near Cologne to speed Horseman prod.
Lucky break, galley doesn't sink! :D

IBT
French request audience, want peace treaty for PT. I add Grenoble (small tundra town) to list and they'll accept for this city but no others. Obviously no strat. resources there! I decline of course!

30BC(6)
Build 1st Horseman, send it to patrol borders near Konigsberg to repel barbs.
Nothing else interesting, units are nearing Paris rendevous point.

IBT
Barb horse sneaks into our borders near incense.

10BC (7)
Move a sword from Nuremburg to protect the workers clearing jungle.
Trade WM with Liz and Cathy
Move units onto hill next to French horses and wait for reinforcements to catch up. Reveals 2 archers heading our way.. hmm cannon fodder!
Try to mm Cologne (it's just grown to pop2) but too much waste, go for fast growth instead.

IBT
Barb horse attacks spear and dies. No damage

10AD (8)
Leipzig builds horseman, send to Munich to protect worker.
Worker gang set to irrigate BG near Cologne.
Use elite sword to attack a french reg archer, we win and get Barbarossa :D and I rename sword to "Mabellino's hero" :lol: now at 2/5 hp
Send one spear to escort Barbarossa on his way to St Pete's. Other units advance towards Paris.

30AD (9)
Attack other french reg archer with vet sword (to try for promo). We win but only just sword now 1/4 with no promotion. :(
Attack French vet archer across a river from a hill and we win with no damage ?? I'll never understand the RNG!
Trade WM to liz for WM+2g, trage to Cathy for WM (she's broke!)

50AD (10)
We now have 1x elite* sword, 5x vet sword and 2x vet. spear ready to attack Paris (pop2) with 4 swords and 1 spear en route.
Barbarossa is outside St Petes. I was going to use him to make an army but couldn't decide which units to put in it. :confused:


I think it went ok but if I'd seen I.Larkin's posts before playing things might have gone a little differently.

Have we got a post ready for the spoiler thread yet? I'm dying to go in and have a look at how the X-Team got so far ahead!

Where is the Save?
We shoud use GL for Lighthouse! Sea scouting, overseas trade! greate bonus!

oops forgot the save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Ankka_SG002_AD0050_01.SAV)

Dear Ankka,
could you, please on preturn
1) Mcmng Berlin as shown to get Settler next turn?
Next Turn
2) Poprush Galley in Nuremberg and revolt, I beg you!
3)Build Lighthouse in Smolensk.
4) Build City on our west coast (near Munich, say)
In Republic rush galley in new City and scout West. Also East, from the east point, obviously, our continent almost from pole to pole, so others should be East or West, not North or South.

I hope you will take Paris at least, I think it will better to continue war to get Lyon at least. (May be renegotiate Alliance, or simply cancel it). Also NW barbarians Camp... Enough is enough...

I'm not sure if I get to these turns today... nice job, BTW, mabellino. :)

Hi again! I have little time lately, but occasionally can see what's going on.

mabellino: I contacted Liz before I entered inside the borders of France. She accepted a MA AFTER a had declared, the next turn. I wanted the catapults to go and protect our SoD, but with no roads then, that was impossible(through hill, jungle and mountain tiles). I really believe that we'd be in better position if they'd been in the SoD.
Congratulations for the GL.

I don't know what mabellino or Ankka think, but I'm voting for a Sword Army. We'd be able to bulid the MA and HE later. With an Army we can take all our enemies sooner or later, expand to our continent and qonquer anyone else(when we have more armies later on). I'm insisting on an Army, but I'll go with what the majority decides.

I also think an army will be a better use of the leader. The Lighthouse, although useful, doesn't give as much of an advantage as wiping out all the civs on our continent with armies. We can use the old suicide galley technique which the AI never does and get a monoploly on contacts that way, the lighthouse might help us achieve this but I still think an army is a good option.
I'm not sure if we should wait for Med inf/ knights to put in the army, pretty soon we'll be up against pikes.
We can always use our next leader to build the lighthouse! ;)

I don't think I have the energy to play today. :undecide: I'm kinda tired, and would make stupid mistakes. So maybe a swap or will you wait until saturday?

@Ankka: I have no problem to wait for your turn.
I'll be waiting to hear from you, what we should do with our GL? Have you any objection with our current plan in general? Any future plan?

Hmm... we have a GL? Maybe I should read the turnlogs. ;)


For the Lighthouse... not a bad idea. We have no good troops to put into an army or anything, so sounds good. :)

Hmm... we have a GL? Maybe I should read the turnlogs. ;)


For the Lighthouse... not a bad idea. We have no good troops to put into an army or anything, so sounds good. :)
Exactly! 3 swords stronger then 3 swords army. I could consider 3 knights army just to build Heroic epy, but not now. Next GL will build FP (S-Ptsburg(?)), Next Leo workshop.

Yeah.

And as armies aren't as powerful as in C3C, that's also a thing to remember.

@Ankka: I have no problem to wait for your turn.
I'll be waiting to hear from you, what we should do with our GL? Have you any objection with our current plan in general? Any future plan?
@Ankka, you have 72 hours legal time, so Saturday is OK, I'll will wait. (I think I will play after you). We are at turning point, so better to play better.
@All,
Progress goes slower than I thought, but at least at right direction.
Let me reminde general plan
1) Get Paris+Lyons (fur), + what Joahn give for peace treaty.
2) Short war with English (better if they still at war with France)
Because of GW we can't advance so fast, but should ensure strategic position to eliminate them later.
3) Short war to eliminate Russians. I don't want to risk culture flips.
Next I add:
5) Marketplaces Beriln Leipzig first.
4) Short war to eliminate French. I don't want to risk culture flips. Pyramid is too valuble, so I think better to hold it no matter what(reputation, say).
5) Sea scouting and contacts. Because of Greate Lib we need as much contacts as possible. Also better to know WM better for future planing.
6) Expasion on our continent. Without Markets size 6 is optimal and with Pyramids at Republic Cities will grow fast. Let settle our continent. We may go to Domination, rather then Conquest, it will help. Also it will help to get rid from barbs.
7) Resarch: We should stay in Republic to research fast! Because of Greate Lib the line is: Invention, Gunpowder, Chemistry, Metalurgy.
8) Defence. It is too expensive to have 1 spear in each City. At Republic we should build up mobile defence force around "perimeter". Better to have Engineering asap for good mobility.

Please reply. Since we have no Leader in our team we should discuss things...

I pretty much agree on all that you said. :) Very good thinking. :)


Especially on the point that we don't need a defender in every city, but a mobile defence force should do the job.

@Ankka, could you prepare summary for spiler? I can produse images of MidAge Entry, and you text, OK? Many Teams already did it.

I think you could do the text, as you have been the best one in this game so far and you know what we have done. :)

I think you could do the text, as you have been the best one in this game so far and you know what we have done. :)
I agree, but I worry for my English.
Let me put it in our thread first and you or Mabell will check.
OK?

We can use the old suicide galley technique which the AI never does and get a monoploly on contacts that way, the lighthouse might help us achieve this but I still think an army is a good option.
I'm not sure if we should wait for Med inf/ knights to put in the army, pretty soon we'll be up against pikes.
2) We can always use our next leader to build the lighthouse! ;)
1) Since we will have Great Lib Astronomy is far to far. Trade with overseas is a greate bonus. Also we may try conquest before Astronomy.
2) I don't like if overseas AI build Lighthouse and make contact with "our" AIs. They may well research Mmaking already and may build it soon.
3) You can't sail army even on Caravell, but I think our AIs "done" allready.
I hope Ankka will listen my reason and build Lighthouse.

Dear Ankka, did yo see this post?
could you, please on preturn
1) Mcmng Berlin as shown to get Settler next turn?
Next Turn
2) Poprush Galley in Nuremberg and revolt, I beg you!
3)Build Lighthouse in Smolensk.
4) Build City on our west coast (near Munich, say)
In Republic rush galley in new City and scout West. Also East, from the east point, obviously, our continent almost from pole to pole, so others should be East or West, not North or South
I hope you will take Paris at least, I think it will better to continue war to get Lyon at least. (May be renegotiate Alliance, or simply cancel it). Also NW barbarians Camp... Enough is enough....


Better to have Berlin and Leipzig same size at Republic...
You may delay revolt one more turn to build Horsman in Liepzig and settler in Munich, but no more, but no more, please.
Set Settlers and workers whenever possible (exception are: Berlin and Leipzig: Marketplaces, Hamburg-HoresMan... We should start second wave of expansion when get Pyramids and come to Republic. I relay on you military experience.
Regards, Ivan.

I.Larkin: don't warry for our GL, since you and Ankka are the most experienced players in this game, I'll approve your decision. I like your thinking and planning.

I don't think we don't have a leader in our team: it seems that you deserve that "title", since you have done most of our strategy/planning so far.

I agree, but I worry for my English.
Let me put it in our thread first and you or Mabell will check.
OK?


That sounds excellent. :)

Lets build the Lighthouse then!
So here's the next obvious question... where?!

I second the idea that I.Larkin can be thought of as our military leader, I have proven to be useless at military planning!
I'd like us to get our summary post done fairly quickly, we're not allowed to view the spoiler until it is posted :( I'm ready and willing to check grammar etc if you think we need it. What screenshots shall we include? I'm not at home at the moment so don't have any of my saved screenies (I took more than I posted) but I have already installed civ on my Mum&Dads' PC. Bring it on!

As for the game, I'll probably be unable to play my turns until Monday anyway so a slight delay will be useful!

Good luck Ankka, go kick some French butt!

I hope to get the turns done tomorrow. I might be busy though...

Dear Ankka, few more tips: It is resonable to scout sea from East point of our continent, please return our south Galley there. If you manage to meet AIs do not trade them Tecnolgy even if they have some above - we will get it from TGLib. Just WM for cntact and last one WM -- WM, our WM should be enough for that. Please Build Lighthouse (Alex agrres) and turn to Republic. What for we research it for 100%?!? Also Research Engineering asap, we need mobility. We may slow down research later. Send Hamburg's Catapults to SPtb for next war. Do not quit from war after Paris, we need fur.

Summary.
We settle on spot and chose 40 turns IW research at min.
We founded Leipzig at turn 27 and meet English (no deal).
At turn 37 we meet Russians and after chain trade of Technologies we establish technological parity with both. (Wheel, Masonry, Alphabet, Pottery, CB, BW, WC)
At turn 40 we discover IW and trade it to Russians for 118g+5gpt. Then we set our research goal to Literature and keep 100% research.
At 1500 – 1250 BC we had short war with English: they sneak attack well defended Hamburg turn after Peace Treaty renegotiation. During the war we lost 2 warriors and English lost 4 warriors. We quit from war for 60 gold.
We discover Literature at 1100 BC gain technological parity again and trade it for contact with France. We build first Library at 975 BC. We also trade French and English WM this year.
At 850 BC Paris build Pyramids and we set our military goal to capture Paris.
At 750 BC we trade Russian WM for Mathematics and open almost all map of our continent (except small area far NW).
At 590 BC we connect Iron, upgrade warriors and send troops toward to Moscow.
At 490 BC we declare war to Russians and enter their land.
At 410 BC we discover Currency and trade French Construction +29 gold for Polytheism and Currency. We both enter Mid Age as result of this trade. We are up on English on Currency, Poly and Constructions. Also, this year we capture Moscow.

Please check text in above post and submit to soiler.
Or prove it and I'll do it myself.
Ivan.

I just checked it fast, looks good. I'll look at it better later today...

The summary look great, very concise and informative without having to plough through a load of meaningless unit manouvres! :goodjob:
I think we should go ahead and post it in the spoiler thread, don't forget to include our software version and if we're going for the variant or not. We're not right? We're still aiming for conquest/domination?
Has anyone worked out how to include more than one pic in a post (ie using the old {img} tags? If so then we should try and format the post to include all three images in place rather than as attachments at the end!
Let's put our team members in as well.

Upload the screenshots with the "Upload File"- link in the bottom of the page, then copy the link and surround it with [img] tags and it will show there. :)

Sorry, I didn't get to the turns today. I had another SG also and did also cleaning in my room, so I didn't get the time. :undecide:

OK, I'll put Summary to spoiler.
I'll wait 15 hours and will play if Ankka will not.
Regards, Ivan.

I think we will go Domination rather then Conquest. Our continent rughly 25% of earth surface and for 60% water preset it is enough or almost enough for 66% land requied for Domination. I think with Pyramids 66% Population wil not be a problem. Because of that we should settle rear taking in mind that after 34 turns after Library each City will cover 45 tiles (7x7 squre without coners). This, what we should take into account for next settelment. I did preliminary planing, but it looks not perfect. May be somebody print our map and draw better.
Regards, Ivan

Domination it shall be. :)


I'll try to play today, but I can't promise anything.

No energy to play today. Sorry.

No energy to play today. Sorry.
Are you skip?
I'll play then. No patience to wait.
Ivan

@I.Larkin
lol! you really want to win this one don't you! ;)
Have any of you guys checked out the spoiler thread yet? It's sobering reading, The X-team have powered ahead and left us barely off the start line! :eek:

@Ankka
Hope you're feeling better soon, it seems a shame that this team was named in your honour and you haven't been able to participate as much as you'd like. Fingers crossed you'll be feeling on top of things soon. I don't mind you jumping in between King Alex and myself if you want (and that's not meant in a dodgy way for all you perverts reading this!) cough*lurkers*cough :lol:

I'm now back home after a rainy Bank Holiday weekend and raring to go! Let's capture Paris and move onwards to the next spoiler. :spear:

PS Gotta love these new smilies! :clap:

@I.Larkin
lol! you really want to win this one don't you! ;)
Have any of you guys checked out the spoiler thread yet? It's sobering reading, The X-team have powered ahead and left us barely off the start line! :eek:

I'm now back home after a rainy Bank Holiday weekend and raring to go! Let's capture Paris and move onwards to the next spoiler. :spear:

PS Gotta love these new smilies! :clap:
OK, will play soon. I think we should keep 72 hours rule.
It is a pity that most expirenced player of our team (Ankka) have so little time to participate. I think we can move out from last place at SGOTM2 if we win fast Domination and will have many happy faces in our Cities (Lyons fur!).
Please decide, who will play next.

I think you have better knowledge of the game, Ivan. I really don't know that much about the game itself... for instance, setting up settler factories is a thing I haven't yet really mastered so well... your tutorial talk on that was really helpful.


And I was tired cause schools were ending and I had a lot to do... now I'm on a holiday so I can play more, at least at times when I'm not somewhere... I could play after Ivan, if it's ok for Alex. :)

@Ankka
Play after Ivan if you want, I don't mind at all.

Here is the save. turnlog was VERY difficult, will write it now.
Ivan

0 50 AD
Production changed: Berlin-> Settler, Leipzig->Market, Kenig->Catapult Frankfurt->Barracks, Moscow->Settler S-Ptrsburg->Barracks, Smolensk->Lighthouse, Tbilisi, Coloqne->Libs, Munich->settler, Heid->catapult . Mcmg Berlin to get Settler in 1 Turn.
Send Moscow Sword to France, and S-Ptb warrior south. Send Hamburg’s Catapults to S-Ptb. Send Liepzig – Nuremberg warriors to Hamburg.
IBT
2 French Archers attack our SoD from Paris. First Spear loose 1 HP, second lose 2 HP
Barbarian Horse attack Munich and die (catapult works).
Berlin->Market

1 70 AD
Siege Paris.
Sword vs reg spear win (no hp lost, promote to elite)
Sword vs reg spear win (2 hp lost)
Sword vs reg spear win (1 hp lost)
Sword vs reg spear die (spear promote to vet 2/4), fresh 3/3 spear pop up.
Active troops left 2/5 sword, ¼ sword, ¾ spear, 2/4 spear.
Decided to stay. Move fresh sword to attack point. Move other troops south along road.
Move Leader toward to Smolensk, send Smolensk warrior to France.
Send Berlins garrison (Settler, sword, spear, worker NW) Fortify Elite Horse near Munich, send redlined horse to Kenig. Attack SE barb camp. Horse win, but 1 more barb in the camp. Pull sword just in case. Poprush Galley in Nuremberg and revolt.
Anarchy 6 turns. Mmg Berlin and Leipzig, Smolensk ->Scientist.

IBT
No French activity. 3 barb horse appear: 2 near Kenig 1 near Munich.
Nuremberg Galley->Harbor
2 90 AD
Rush Lighthouse in Smolensk. Send Galleys to east point.
Second Siege of Paris.
4/4 Sword vs 4/4 spear win (1 hp lost)
Elite Sword vs reg spear die (???)
¾ sword win (lost 2 hp)
2/4 Sword vs reg spear die, spear promote 2/4
2/5 Elite Sword vs reg spear die, last spear in Paris redlined.
Active troops left ¼ sword, ¾ spear, 2/4 spear.
Decided to charge.
¾ spear vs 1/3 reg spear win.
We take Paris. Enter active troops in. Capital jump to Lyons.
Horse take SE barb camp, redlined. Elite horse killed barb horse.
Hire Taxman in Munich.
IBT
Barb horses attack Kenig. Firs die, second kill spear, redlined. Smolensk Lighthouse-> catapult.
3 110 AD
Fortify ¾ sword near Paris. Bring rest to Paris. 2 fresh swords move to gold hill near Paris, see French archer. Other troops to France, Galleys to east point scooting deaper in sea. Elite horse move to position attack barb camp. Nothing can do with Kenig’s barb.
Settler, sword, spear move NW.
IBT
Redlined barb jump to settler, sword, spear trio.
French archer fortifies on fur, another appear west of Paris.
4 130 AD
Move troops to Lyons over the hills. See French spear/settler.
Elite horse take barb camp. 2 barbs more on forest-mount.
IBT
French archer attack sword near Paris. Archer die, sword redlined
Another archer come to Paris. French spear/settler move to fur.
2 barb horses attack elite horse: both die elite lost 1 hp.
5 150 AD
Move all troops at position (2 spears, 3 swords, 1 horse)
I did not attack Spear across the river.
4/4 sword vs archer dies (RNG???) ¾ sword win.
NE Galley spot Japanese border. Move toward to.

IBT
French spear/settler move around Paris.
Spear appear in front of Lyons.
Galley sink near Japan.
.
6 170 AD
We have new face at F4 screen! Glad to meet you, Tokugava!
Lets trade WM!
Japan: Contact with India + 3g for WM
India: Contact with chinise+TM+15g for WM
Chinese: WM+20g for WM
Japan: WM for WM
English WM+58g for WM all they have
Russia WM+31g for WM all they have.
Japan, India, China below currency, Literature and Republic, but India and China knows Monarchy. Our army average over China and Japan and strong vs India.
To Lyons! Sword attack across river (we need this position) and die, spear redlined. Horse attack not across river and win with 4 hp! We are near Lyon (2 spears, 2 swords and horse).
¾ sword kill French spear/settler and promote to elite.
IBT
We learned Monarchy from TGL. Advisor offer to revolt again, but I chose: we are happy with anarchy. Next menu was : Despotism, Monarchy and Republic and I choose Republic.
7 190 AD
We take Lyons!
(Swords win, horse die, but spear win and promote).
We have WW already, so I decided to quit war.
French agree to give Tours and Chartres + one City for choice: Rouen, Grenoble or Rheims. I took Rheims of course (left them Iron, but send spear to disconnect it, it is legal, because road “neutral”.) Establish Embassy in Kyoto (cheapest) to have an idea whats going on overseas. They are in peace, Japan trade with China. Move sword+horses at NW area try to kill and not to be killed… Start road to Rheims.
Lax 10% Sci 90% Engineering at 4 turns. Rush settler in Moscow (substitute Orlean), swap to worker in S-Pbg. Move troops to Rheims…
Send Galley back south.

IBT
Barbs SE and NW… English move troops to France, French to England…
Munich Settler->worker. Spb worker->barracks.
8 210
Rush worker in Rheims (Take Governor off)
Pillage roads Ruoen- Marssel and Lyons Marssel. French should be isolated!
Move troops to Rheims – Canterbury area.
IBT
More English appear…
9 230
Upgrade warrior in Hamburg Send Sward+Cat+Horse NW, settler behind.
IBT
More English appear…
10 250 BC
Move quartet Horse+Cat+Sword+Settler NW send also sword to sort out barb camp.
Have no idea where to move troops at Rheims area. Left others fortified, things depend will we go to war or not

Summary, suggestions, recomendation.
Here we are. We know all maps, have Pyramids and now can set our road to Domination Victory. The faster we do it the better chanses to move out from last place at SGOTM2. General plan is to settle our continent and may be Island at North.
Unfortunaly Lighthouse appears to be not so benefical as I thought before. We are isolated by Ocean and can't trade. Hope it is not last GL in our game... Lets fight and they will appear. We desperatly need FP in S-Ptbrg.
My original plan was to take Countubery (Short republican war) before English discover Feudalism, but with SoD they have near Rheims it is stupid idea. It is better to let them fight French may be they eliminate them or French kill English SoD.
We should regroup our troops for war with Russians Better prepare well, we have enough troops. I can't make precise prescribtion who moves where, use comon sence. It is resonable for example to send catapult's spear to Rheims and catapults cover by Moscow vet spear. It is also good to rush barracks in Ptsburg und upgrade two warriors there. Also, might be useful to leave one sword near Paris In case of flip we Declare and take it back. Whatch that French stay withou Iron!
Soon Berlin and Leipzig finish Marketplases and will pump Military Units. Micromanage Berlin to get Horse each two turn. Also, use Gold if Berlin will need extra Lux or Science.
We may discover Engineering in one turn!
Set Sciense at 100% and Micromanage Berlin on Gold 1 turn is OK, then put Lux back to 10%. After Engineering -> Feudalism.
With TGL we should avoid Theology-Education. Better to take 40 turn "Gambit" for Feudalism with single Scientist to see if we can get it from TGL or trade for Monotheism, say (before Russians do it) and go back on research track. (Invention-Gunpowder-Chemistry, Metalurgy, Military Traditions) I think we will get Chivaliry- Theology-Education from TGL. Moscow Settler should replace Orlean. I think tile near Cattel is better then former Orlean place. NW settler setll Eeast of cattle (yellow point), (red point wrong) we should cover our land with minimum Cities like parquet. Non Barracks City shold produce workers and settlers, barracked - Military units and Marketplace.

One more suggestion: We may declare war to Indians, Ask Japan for alliance (for Monarchy) and then demand 1-2 Indian City (our army strong...)

Nice job there. :goodjob:


I may get it today, not sure though.

@I.Larkin: Very good playing and planning Ivan :) :goodjob:
I had a problem with my computer, and I hope I'll solve it when I get home after work(that's why I didn't reply to you Ivan). I must see the save first before I say anything about your suggestions, and decide what we should do next.

This is my "got it", but I'll tell if I can play today until night.

@Ankka: Please tell clearly if you can play before me or if you'll play after mabellino, as the roster is.

I'll play after you, at least.

I have clear plan how to win this game in 80 turns.
After Engineering we take 40 turns Feudalism gambit (single Scientist in Tours) Let other City grow. Cash rush Lib in Moscow - when it Pick up Weat it will have 10 food surpluss (Super Setller Factory) And we will pump Settler each second turn for 116 gold. In 30 turns we will enough to settle all our land. At turn 40 we rush Libraries in each City. At turn 74 we will cover all our land. We should not trade our Tech (Monarchy, Monoteism ets) not to let Japan and English grow and have Chivaliry well before us. We may trade Currency to Japan if we want alliance vs India.
Do not trade contacts in any circumstances
To secure Paris: 2 swords should be outside near Paris to take it back in case of flip. (North tile best on the Paris-Rheims road). Better to rush Lib in Paris, it reduces chanses of flip. We shuld NOT build library in Lyons, better to build workers and Build COLONY on fur - in case of Lyons flip our Core Cities will not fall into disorder. War with Russians and French will be simle, I hope.

Wow 80 turns!
Are you sure we'll meet the domination limits? In c3c it is easy to tell this on the F8 screen but I thought we needed Mapstat to find out in vanilla???
Sounds like a doable plan though... I take it we'll be removing the Russians and English before we can win?

Wow 80 turns!
Are you sure we'll meet the domination limits? In c3c it is easy to tell this on the F8 screen but I thought we needed Mapstat to find out in vanilla???
Sounds like a doable plan though... I take it we'll be removing the Russians and English before we can win?
It looks that our continent more then 66%, but better check. If you know where to get Mapstat to find out in vanilla, please do it.
What do you think (as TGL expert) about my 40 turn Gambit?
Certanly we drive Russians and French to the Sea. Not sure about English. I hope to Indians partially to demand some Cities from them.
Ivan

Dear Ankka or King Alex, please

1) After Engeneering please chose 40 turn Feudalism with single Scientist.
2) Rush Lib in Moscow. When Moscow grow and pick up wheat start rush settlers each second turn.
Micromanage Moscow to have >10 food surplus.
Send settlers North and NW along road (obviously they do not need spear in homeland.) Pull active troops for war with Russians. (Munich catapults, elite horse ets.) Hamburg, Moscow and S-Ptbrg are good randevue points. We should strike desisevely and finish war in 5-7 turns. Settle yellow and magneta point North to Leipzig and think about future.
I think it will be resonable to declare war to Indians and bring Tokugava to war for Currency. But may be later.
Do not trade Contacts, Republic, Monarchy, Monotheism.
Build Marketplaces, workers in non barracks Cities. Keep Lux 10%.
Regards, Ivan.

Ok, Ivan, let's stick to your plan.

I'll play sometime, hopefully until night.

What are you saying, is to declare at Russians now, or wait for a few turns?
It's not good to declare before we have the units in position to strike(or maybe we need a few more, haven't checked the save). The strike should be quick a destructful, not to give Russians any time to understand what hit them! I don't know if you suggested it, but we should eliminate the Russians.

We'll settle towards north into the peninsula and we'll send the settlers unescorted, right? I hope there aren't any barb camps left. If we're going not to escort our settlers there, we should have a strong force in our border cities with England, so we stop them in case of war, if they'll go to take our undefended cities.

In any case, I AGREE NOT TO TRADE CONTACTS (or the techs you mentioned).

I suppose this Mapstat, is a tool for showing how much land one owns; are we sure these kind of tools are not forbidden because, IMHO, it's considered as a cheat?

Let's pop rush the settlers out of Moscow every 2 turns. At least, we can try to settle as much land as we can, and we'll see how the game goes; maybe we make a war with the English, if they are much of a threat in the future.

It's a good idea to make the overseas civs to fight with each other, through gifting techs to them.

Another good suggestion about Paris, to have a small stack there to take it back, if it flips(probably it will, sometime in the future). We abandon Orleans and resettle the land.

I have clear plan how to win this game in 80 turns.
After Engineering we take 40 turns Feudalism gambit (single Scientist in Tours) Let other City grow. Cash rush Lib in Moscow - when it Pick up Weat it will have 10 food surpluss (Super Setller Factory) And we will pump Settler each second turn for 116 gold. In 30 turns we will enough to settle all our land. At turn 40 we rush Libraries in each City. At turn 74 we will cover all our land. We should not trade our Tech (Monarchy, Monoteism ets) not to let Japan and English grow and have Chivaliry well before us. We may trade Currency to Japan if we want alliance vs India.
Do not trade contacts in any circumstances
To secure Paris: 2 swords should be outside near Paris to take it back in case of flip. (North tile best on the Paris-Rheims road). Better to rush Lib in Paris, it reduces chanses of flip. We shuld NOT build library in Lyons, better to build workers and Build COLONY on fur - in case of Lyons flip our Core Cities will not fall into disorder. War with Russians and French will be simle, I hope.


If this plan works, you are a genius, I have to say. :goodjob:

Mapstat is allowed in GOTM but not for RBCiv games. A lot of the top GOTM players quote Mapstat statistics in their spoiler posts... maybe we should ask Ainwood in the discussion thread...

@mabellino: have we posted on the spoiler's thread? I want to take a look.

Go ahead and ask Ainwood(or I can post it, if you want).

EDIT: I got a reply from "a space oddity" saying that it is permitted to use Mapstat when one has the WM, so we can use it. Which one has it and could use it?

@I.Larkin: Have you posted on the spoiler's tread? I didn't see a nottifying post from you for this matter, only that you intended to post.

Our spoiler post was made a few days ago so it is fine to go and read it. Beware it makes depressing reading!

I think Mapstat is available in Chieftess's sig or one of the other mods/admins.
I've never used it myself but I have seen it used. The main thing to remember is it's considered a spoiler if there are any fogged tiles remaining, but if the whole map is uncovered then we can use it.

Ok, Ivan, let's stick to your plan.


1)What are you saying, is to declare at Russians now, or wait for a few turns?
It's not good to declare before we have the units in position to strike(or maybe we need a few more, haven't checked the save). The strike should be quick a destructful, not to give Russians any time to understand what hit them! I don't know if you suggested it, but we should eliminate the Russians.

2) We'll settle towards north into the peninsula and we'll send the settlers unescorted, right? I hope there aren't any barb camps left. If we're going not to escort our settlers there, we should have a strong force in our border cities with England, so we stop them in case of war, if they'll go to take our undefended cities.



3) I suppose this Mapstat, is a tool for showing how much land one owns; are we sure these kind of tools are not forbidden because, IMHO, it's considered as a cheat?


4)It's a good idea to make the overseas civs to fight with each other, through gifting techs to them.

5) Another good suggestion about Paris, to have a small stack there to take it back, if it flips(probably it will, sometime in the future). We abandon Orleans and resettle the land.
1) Certanly not declare untill well prepared. We have to have 3 strong stacks to take 1)Kiev, 2)Odessa +City , 3) Minsk+ City.
Nothing urgent! Workout best plan to do that, probably 9 turns is enough but better to finish preparation in 10 turns and discuss.
2) Settlers could go unescorted from Moscow to Leipzig or Kenigsberg. Next way may be unsafe.
Until English in war with France their strike forse in France. As our Hidelberg border will expand soon we are secure.
It is more resonable to have garrison in France to defend us from English...
3) Ask MadBax to be sure. But we can simply count tiles manually...
4) Yes, and defenetly Japan+Germany vs India. Do you know now how to do that? Declare war to India and then offer Japan to fight (for currency, say). Will see 20 turns after what Japan do...
5)I wrote twice about Paris. Stack should be on North tile near Paris.
May be you mean Lyons?
I already build settler to put it near "former Orlean Place"
We should secure "S-Ptburg -- Paris road.

Mapstat is normally used to count tiles and population in order to know how far you are from domination -which is something that you *could* do yourself if you were more patient than me...

It is certainly not to be used to give you any information that is not visible in the game screens, or which may be spoiler information (you must only use it once you have a full world map, for example).

If you have other doubts, ask a mod just to be sure.