SGOTM2 Game Thread

Welcome to your game thread for SGOTM2-Germany

Here is the start position.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM2-start-position.jpg

Each team has their own save file. Please download and play from the correct save. If you use the wrong save the server will not accept your submission. Also, please make sure that the software version is correct. PM me immediately if it is not.

You can download your save file >>HERE<<. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm_submission_list.php)

The Roster
Annka
I.Larkin
King Alexander
mabellino

To the team: I'm away from home, returning Monday. I.Larkin returns on Sunday. Any objections If I play last and I.Larkin before me?
I'd settle right where the settler is. We have 2 BG's(our worker wouldn't need to cross the river). I believe we need a couple of warriors for exploring, and a warrior to defend Berlin(for the fear of barbarians). Berlin would need a granary and our settler factory could begin it's production. I'd like to hear what the other members suggest. Have to go now.

Hi teamies!
Settle in position looks good to me. I'm not sure about the 100% to Iron Working. I think we will need a granary at this site because there don't seem to be any bonus food resources. I'm thinking research pottery then IW? What do you guys think?
I can play at any point in the roster but think that the first turn should go to Ankka since our name honours him!
Are we going for the variant? I've won a couple of diplo but only by building the UN. Never had chance to capture it before! Can't wait to test out those Panzers.
One last question.... what time zones are you guys in? I'm currently GMT+1 (BST).
Mabellino

Hi teamies!
One last question.... what time zones are you guys in? I'm currently GMT+1 (BST).
Mabellino
GMT+2(Greece).

EDIT: I also think that Ankka(as the most experienced and best player of the team), should begin the first turns. I'm going to follow his suggestions every time: don't forget that this is my first SGOTM, and I've only been introduced in SG's recently(currently playing the TDG in my signature).
I think it'll be good if we posted our ideas/strategies/suggestions/questions before playing, so the the other members can give some advice.
What does "variant" mean? Please describe it briefly.

Hi teamies!
Settle in position looks good to me. I'm not sure about the 100% to Iron Working. I think we will need a granary at this site because there don't seem to be any bonus food resources. I'm thinking research pottery then IW? What do you guys think?
I can play at any point in the roster but think that the first turn should go to Ankka since our name honours him!
Are we going for the variant? I've won a couple of diplo but only by building the UN. Never had chance to capture it before! Can't wait to test out those Panzers.
One last question.... what time zones are you guys in? I'm currently GMT+1 (BST).
Mabellino
I am at Atlanta, USA (now in New York). So let me play 4 th. I think IW 100% better because of our SGM1 experience. Also, we can get pottery from sombody else or from goody Hutt. Third, I calculated tjat we lost 22 shield and 44 Gold due to Granary in our SGM1. (akots). Build order is Warrior, Warrior Settler is the best. Next barraks or granary.
Ivan

I think we can finish well before Patzers.

Well, as I explained to Ivan, my lousy 56k line can't upload that often, and I'm waiting for his e-mail by PM. I'd like also the e-mails from the rest of the team, in case we have to skip someone. You have no idea how sad I'm feeling about not being able to upload myself(and a little embarrasment).
I can't really say something more on my plans, since the game hasn't yet started and Ankka has yet to post. I think, we better wait for Ankka to make his presence.

There is no need to wait for Ankka. Ivan could start for instance. It would give you something to talk about when Ankka gets here.

K.A. I'm not sure what your problem is with a 56K line. The saves will be less than a 100K for most of the game and you can upload them to the GOTM Server using the link in my sig. You would need to maintain a connection for 30 seconds or less.

There is no need to wait for Ankka. Ivan could start for instance. It would give you something to talk about when Ankka gets here.

K.A. I'm not sure what your problem is with a 56K line. The saves will be less than a 100K for most of the game and you can upload them to the GOTM Server using the link in my sig. You would need to maintain a connection for 30 seconds or less.
I am not at home and can't play now. If ankka will not pop up mabellino can start...

Discussion.

Here are some thoughts about future discussions. I think when player get *.sav file the most active participants should be player, pre-player and post-player. Pre-player always have an idea for 10-20 turns ahead when he plays and want their realization; he/she may be annoyed when player crush his ideas. Post-player also expect that he will get “something good” to play. It would be nice if pre-player submit his thoughts about what to do next 10 turns and post-player after looking that and *.sav file submit his suggestions about what he want to get reasonably. If all three (player, pre-player and post-player) disagree with each other they can discuss things before… I think, player reserve his rights to play the way he wants his 10 turns, but really good progress might be if chain is consistent at least at three points (thirty turns). Also we should somehow decide about how to discuss our general strategy. Most of our decisions an intuitive and discussion should reveal logistics of this decisions.

I'm here, but I can't take it either. Other SG's too. :undecide:


And I live in GMT +2 area.

Do you guys want to wait till everyone's available before we start? This will be my first SG and I'm a bit nervous of being the first to start.
I can play most evenings (apart from Mondays) and all day at weekends but I need to finish GOTM31 pretty soon.. I've also signed up for Ainwood's training game. My understanding of SG's is that they start off quite quickly then as the turns get longer most people want to have finished it.

I'm really looking forward to playing this one, never played as the Germans before! (not too keen on Mil trait)

As long as I don't start, I don't really care who starts. (I started up in SGOTM1)


And mabellino: don't be nervous, everyone makes mistakes too. :)

That settles it then... I'm off!
Going to settle in place and have a look around then I'll post what I find.

See you soon. ;)

Good luck. :)

OK after some minor technical glitches I managed to start the game. I've only played the first turn because some new discoveries might change our game plan.

I settled in place, build warrior in 5 turns and set research to IW in 40turns @20%. Bumping science upto 100% still means 40turns so I've left it for now with the intention of checking every turn when roads and more citizens are present.

I checked F10 and our opponents are: Russia, France, England, Japan, India and China.
We have no luxuries immediately evident but we do ahve two bonus food tiles (Game and wheat).
I've instructed the worker to road then mine the tile to the E of the start location.
See attached pictures. Red arrows indicate tiles I think we should irrigate.

I settled in place, build warrior in 5 turns and set research to IW in 40turns @20%. Bumping science upto 100% still means 40turns so I've left it for now with the intention of checking every turn when roads and more citizens are present.

Wise decision! Don't forget to check F11 as well.

I checked F10 and our opponents are: Russia, France, England, Japan, India and China.
We have no luxuries immediately evident but we do ahve two bonus food tiles (Game and wheat).
I've instructed the worker to road then mine the tile to the E of the start location.
See attached pictures. Red arrows indicate tiles I think we should irrigate.
Will yo Irrigate road Game next? Do you agree Warrior Warrior, Settler buildup?
What we will do if Ankka will not manage to open SAV file?
Ivan.

Are we playing on Vanilla civ? I doubt I'll have problems with the save...


I agree on the plan. A few exploring warriors, then a settler, then perhaps a granary if we get one. I seem to have forgotten the techs Germany gets in the beginning.

Ah, remembered them. Bronze Working and Warrior Code. So no Granary for a while... settler it is after those warriors.

I think we can just road Game, and chop/irrigate later, when we will build granary.
With road Game will give 2s2f2g as mined BG.

Are we playing on Vanilla civ? I doubt I'll have problems with the save...


I agree on the plan. A few exploring warriors, then a settler, then perhaps a granary if we get one. I seem to have forgotten the techs Germany gets in the beginning.

Ah, remembered them. Bronze Working and Warrior Code. So no Granary for a while... settler it is after those warriors.
Good!, so will you play after mabellino?

Hello :)

Just a quick reminder: do not forget to upload your saves using Alan's Surprise (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm.php).
You can also download the files and view the current status from this page (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm_submission_list.php) (you will also find the links in the maintenance thread and in MB's signature).

So, it is no longer necessary to upload the saves through the game threads -but you can do it if you want, of course.

Hi guys. This is just a gentle reminder that the other teams threads are off limits. It is not permitted to browse your opponents threads this month, which is a change from last month.

With the software changes on the server it is absolutely trivial for the staff to detect who is browsing which thread, even in invisible mode. :scan:

To our team: I say let's still attach the saves in this thread too, as it is used in all other SG's too, it helps to make it simpler. At least to me. Do you guys agree?


Mad-bax: I must admit I browsed the beginning of another team's thread, but only the part where they were reporting that they're there etc. I did NOT read nything about turns they had played. Just in case you (or someone else) had noticed.

So, the play order is:

mabellino - currently playing
Ankka - on deck
King Alexander
I.Larkin

Let's try and keep the save going on at a good rate, about 2-3 days per player. Is this ok with everyone?

And if next player doesn't say "got it" within 24 hours of the last save, (s)he'll be skipped.


Does this suit everyone?

I've played my 10 turns. Here's a summary:

Score=45
F11 stats: 1st in GNP, Mfg Goods, Land area, Literacy, Pollution, Life expect. and productivity. We are currently last in Population.
We will research Iron Working in 30turns at 10% (5gpt) or 25 turns at 100% (0gpt)
We have 2 warriors (1 exploring and one for MP) with an archer in 4 turns.
Pop has just grown to 2 and border expansion means we now have wheat and game.
Warrior 1 has been exploring along the mountains and has just spotted a herd of elephants near a river to the NE. We also have spices to the S,S,SW of Berlin. The tile to the E of Berlin has been roaded and mined and the worker has just moved onto the game square.
A settler would be produced in 6 turns but Berlin won't grow for 10 so I opted to build an archer in the mean time.
Our city doesn't appear in the top 5 list (now there's a surprise!)

I think immediate priorities are to increase food production and meet some other civs.
I've uploaded the save using the submissions page but here's a copy as well.

Mabellino

mabellino. The first player plays 20 turns. You need to play till the end of the 3000BC turn. :)

oops my mistake! :blush:
Does it look like it's going ok though? do you agree with what I've done so far? This is my first SG, sorry about the newb mistake!

Ps.. I've also looked at 1 or 2 team threads to see if they had started but that was on sat and I didn't read any strategy discussions!

20 turns to follow...

EDIT:
Ok here is the save from 3000BC http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Ankka_SG002_BC3000_01.SAV

Our score is 69 and we are the top city in F11 as all the other civs are pop2 and we are pop3
We will have a settler in 3 turns and I've spotted a nice site near the ivory with a flood plain for a second city. I haven't met anyone else yet but am exploring to the NW and W. Feel free to change directions if you want.
Iron working in 20 turns at 6gpt or 18turns at -1 gpt.

EDIT 2: Just looked at the game rules and found that the use of governors isn't allowed. I let our governor emphasise production for all cities, Ankka you might want to fix that! And send that warrior exploring!
We have a barracks by the way! I really need to think before I post! :blush:

Here's a screenie:

Not bad... :thumbsup:

I've played my 10 turns. Here's a summary:

Score=45
F11 stats: 1st in GNP, Mfg Goods, Land area, Literacy, Pollution, Life expect. and productivity. We are currently last in Population.
We will research Iron Working in 30turns at 10% (5gpt) or 25 turns at 100% (0gpt)
We have 2 warriors (1 exploring and one for MP) with an archer in 4 turns.
Pop has just grown to 2 and border expansion means we now have wheat and game.
Warrior 1 has been exploring along the mountains and has just spotted a herd of elephants near a river to the NE. We also have spices to the S,S,SW of Berlin. The tile to the E of Berlin has been roaded and mined and the worker has just moved onto the game square.
A settler would be produced in 6 turns but Berlin won't grow for 10 so I opted to build an archer in the mean time.
Our city doesn't appear in the top 5 list (now there's a surprise!)

I think immediate priorities are to increase food production and meet some other civs.
I've uploaded the save using the submissions page but here's a copy as well.

Mabellino
We do not need MP for monarch, send another warrior to explore in another direction! I think non-vet archer useless, spear might be better. When worker finish road at Game send him to NW BG to road it then road/irrigate weat.
Regards, Ivan

I agree, explore with both warriors.


I'll try to play now.

Are we heading for some specific victory, BTW?

Just would be good to decide now...

IMHO we could go for a militaristic one, as we'll eventually get panzers, which are effective. :tank:

oops my mistake! :blush:
Does it look like it's going ok though? do you agree with what I've done so far? This is my first SG, sorry about the newb mistake!

Ps.. I've also looked at 1 or 2 team threads to see if they had started but that was on sat and I didn't read any strategy discussions!

20 turns to follow...

We will have a settler in 3 turns and I've spotted a nice site near the ivory with a flood plain for a second city. I haven't meant anyone else yet but am exploring to the NW and W. Feel free to change directions if you want.
Iron working in 20 turns at 6gpt or 18turns at -1 gpt.
Here's a screenie:
OK. Can't see sav file, so few questions:
What worker doing on Game now? Why -1 gpt?
How many units we have? If 4 it should be 0 gpt.

Worker is chopping forest (complete in 7 turns). We have 2 warriors, one worker and an archer as well as a barracks. I think the barracks accounts for the extra gold. I forgot to mention the barracks in my second post, it's there as EDIT 2.
After we built the archer I had a choice of settler in 6 turns +growth in 6 turns or barrcks in 4 turns then settler. A bit of mm when the pop grew meant we could have the settler 1 turn earlier at the expense of 1 food.

I planned for the worker to chop the forest and the shields could go towards a spearman or whatever then with irrigation we might manage a 4 turn settler factory. (I think we have enough shields)

Please don't forget to turn the governor off as I have only just found out we're not supposed to use them!

We're in joint 1st place at 3000BC if you check the scores page. Not bad for a Regent player eh? :)

Are we heading for some specific victory, BTW?

Just would be good to decide now...

IMHO we could go for a militaristic one, as we'll eventually get panzers, which are effective. :tank:
I think military win will be faster then space. Will see later.
I think you can send MP warrior south using 10% Lax. We need to know our close enviroment to decide where to place next Cities. I think second City should be near Lake-Ivory. What do yo think obout precise spot?

here's one suggestion, bearing in mind that we need to expand quickly so 2 settler factories would be good. I'm also one of those people who can't bear tile overlap!

3000BC [Preturn]: Check out the situation, move the warrior in Berlin to the East. A content turns sad in Berlin, so I higher lux to 10%, at +5gpt.


2850BC [3]: Berlin builds a settler, starts warrior. The settler is sent east, as there is wheat and looks like a nice settling place there.

2670BC [7]: Berlin warrior > spear. Forest harvested, start irrigating the game.

We meet the English in the SW. But the game crashes. :( Reboot the comp. continue from where I was. Try and contact England again, but the game crashes again. I shall now save the game to where it crashed, and you may try and solve this. I'm no good in solving probls like this...:blush: :sad:

Next better player.

And I'm sorry if I messed your plans. I played a bit hastily...:undecide:

And the save. Again I apologise if I messed your plans.

Next better player. Please correct my mistakes... (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Ankka_SG002_BC2670_01.SAV)


So, Ivan or King Alex is up.

I think white spot is the best for second City. I also hate overlap, but we mast
1) settle near fresh water
2) get Ivory as soon as possible.
Magneto dot also possible, but things will 4 turns later then. Where did you send Settler? [Cant see sav file]

Now fligh home. If Alex will not pop up, may I try to sort things out next?
Ivan

IMHO you may. It would be nice.

Hi, I'm back home. This is my "got it".
From what I've seen in other SG's and from my experience, there is much to gain with tight city placement in the higher levels especially until industrial age. I'd go for a city-tile-tile-city placement(much quicker to connect cities, luxuries, terrain improvement, better to defend), but I'm going to leave another tile between our cities, after having seen that nobody(?) likes tight city placement.
We don't play an industrial civ, so we'll need more workers. I'd place our second city on the white dot(before the ivory). I also want us to explore the land, but we should have a warrior guarding each city, and the barbarians are waiting for an opportunity to do some damage.
I'm tired to play now, I have to sleep. If you have any suggestions/objections, please tell them.

EDIT: Ankka, how many turns did you played? I'm playing 10 turns, right? I'll try to upload the save, though I've succeded only once: I don't know what's going wrong; I rarely can get to the second page "Uploaded successful". I'm waiting at least 5-10' to see the next page(after the blue uploading bar comes to it's end), but never comes. How long are you waiting?

IMHO you may. It would be nice.
I played acctally.
Sorry, King Alex!
I was not sure, that it will not crash and played 13 Turns to compensate Ankka. So, I did not inform you "got it" I don't know what was wrong with Ankka save, so I think in present situation you may only continue next 10 turns from my save. I will put save and discussion next.

Here is the save

Here is the question. [This deal is acceptable]

Here is our land and how I played.

Pre-turn
Check Lis about pottery. She sell it for 73 g or 61g+WC.
I decided to wait and see, because we do not need Granary right now.
Put Lux at 0% (Ankka, you should do it few turns before!)
Build Leipzig on spot. Set to worker.
Move archer south with idea to return home (magneta line). Send vet Warrior (red line) down the road south with idea to see SE area. Send NE warrior Noth. Send NW warrior home to scout near NW area.
Few turns later vet warrior meet barbarian warrior, decided to continue South.
Barbarian atack, and our warrior became elite. Two more barb warrior appear. Elite warrior fight back across the river and win without loosing HP.
Change production in Leipzig to warrior.
IBT third barb atack and die, our elite again did not loose HP. Fourth barb appear. Next turn archer spot russian border, go up the hiils, but no contact yet. Change Berlin to settler with idea to swich to Granary next turn. Elite warrior atack barb and die! (this way how RNG works...) Send reg warrior to Berlin.
Next turn contact with Russian became possible. Cathy up Pottery, CB, Masonary, and wheel. She has 2 City and 35 gold.
Lis research WC herself, but now want for pottery 31 gold. Not so simple my dear! Time for active trade.
Put res-Lax to 0%, Mmng Berlin to golden mounain. Now make 9gpt.
Cathy: Masonary+5 g for 9 gpt.
Lis: Alphabet for Masonary+29 gold.
Cathy: Wheel for Alphabet+100 gold.
Lis: CB+Pottery+39 gold for Wheel (she can't pay gpt).
Mmng Berlin back to BG+Games, set to Granary, put sci 10%, now we make -2gpt (so what). Archer continue way East, Cathy ask to move out.
(So what, let's see, where he jump). Archer jump 2 tiles NW, and go home.
New Leipzig warrior go scout SE area, see inecense hill. NW warrior return to Berlin.
Last: turn IW discovered. We have Iron in "our" land, but we may need City or Colony to pick up.
Cathy agrees 100 gold +6gpt for IW (or 118+5gpt, or 136+4gpt...May be lump sum is better, she will have it soon). I don't know shall we at all? We can deside, when money run out. May be Lis will discover something for change (now Lis have no gold and gpt). Obviosly, Cathy is our first target, but I have no idea when we will start our war. Berlin with Barracks is our "settler factory" and when next city will be productive, who knows. Leipzig is far away... Also, barbs at SE are very active... Problems, problems... In general, situation is not bad, In fact Granary will be finished in Berlin in 3 turns (please Micromanage to ensure fast growth!) We shoulg learn, how settler Factory work! I cant make a decision where to move warrior near Leipzig, because of barbarians at South but we need to scout for the fifth City.
I think third City near elephants-lake (black-white spot) is the best location, road almost complete, and worker road plains fast, 4th is near spises, the only worry that Cathy will settle there first...
Let's discuss thingsbefore Alex play, or at least after his seventh turn... I hope we can settle on track...
Regards, Ivan

I think, we should go for deal with Cathy: IW for Cash. The point is that Lis can research it (she did WC 12 turns ago, and if she set for IW (100% or so) she may do it in 16-18 turns. (4-6 turns from now). So Lump sum or so from Cathy for IW is a good deal. I hate to pay for Tech myself, in fact it founded future AI's research. Opposite leads to their bancropsy... When we discover Writing-Litracy we will show them how Science work...
(I am scientific militarist and Germany is my favorite civ...)

Nice job, mr Larkin! :goodjob:

And I think that deal is acceptable. Weird that they will pay gpt in the ancient ages...:eek:

I.Larkin, no problem with me for playing. Mabellino is next(according to the roster).
Nice thinking about the deals, and good suggestions about our next cities.
What do the other members think about our cities placement? I'd like a tighter placement. More cities mean more units, gold, easier to attack our ememies, faster terrain improvement and therefore quicker developement, etc...(the AI has the bad habit of spreading too far). We can have a few SOD's early and take on our enemies sooner, rather than waiting for them to declare. Only from industrialization and after do our cities need more space to grow, and by then it'll be too late for the AI :D . If you don't want city-2 tiles-city, at least we can go for city-3 tiles-city, but further placement would result at having the same power and productivity with the AI. Don't get me wrong, I also don't like tile overlaps, but since I moved up from chieftain and warlord, I found it very effective. Please comment.

King Alexander, I agree a tighter placement is needed but I think city-2tiles-city is a wee bit close unless we are planning an industrial age palace move. I like the way the game is progressing so far, has everyone now played?
The roster as far as I was aware was Me, Ankka, I.Larkin then King Alexander.
I can't believ we've found 2 civs so close! It seems my random archer wandering got within a couple of tiles of Russia!
How many cities are we aiming for? What's the OCN for this size map? Are we willing to spend gpt on barracks maintainance?

On that sweet Russian deal... accept it! gpt in the ancient age.. I never see that normally! We need to cripple their research early if we're planning on taking them out soon, the 20turns will give us time to beef up our military.

File uploads:
It takes me around 10 seconds to upload using AlanH's page thingy, I have a 512K cable modem and a P3 800MHz machine.

Great game so far.. :goodjob:

So, the play order is:

mabellino - currently playing
Ankka - on deck
King Alexander
I.Larkin

Let's try and keep the save going on at a good rate, about 2-3 days per player. Is this ok with everyone?

And if next player doesn't say "got it" within 24 hours of the last save, (s)he'll be skipped.

Does this suit everyone?
Mabellino, this is the updated roster. So, you're next.
Yes, barracks are essential for our wars: we need veteran and not regular units. I agree with the city proposition(dot map) made by I.Larkin. Good luck.

No, you are up, King, as you didn't get to play the roster will look like this:

mabellino
Ankka
I. Larkin
King Alexander

So you're up. :)

That's what I thought too! I looked at the scores graphs and we're still doing really well. Go Team! :D

Sign that deal with Cathy! And try and get as much gpt as possible, that'll slow her expansion, letting us have more area.

Nice job, mr Larkin! :goodjob:

And I think that deal is acceptable. Weird that they will pay gpt in the ancient ages...:eek:
That is my trick! I payed 9 gpt to her for Masonary... Now money will come back...

Oh. Should've read the turnlog properly. :blush:

I.Larkin, no problem with me for playing. Mabellino is next(according to the roster).
Nice thinking about the deals, and good suggestions about our next cities.
What do the other members think about our cities placement? I'd like a tighter placement. More cities mean more units, gold, easier to attack our ememies, faster terrain improvement and therefore quicker developement, etc...(the AI has the bad habit of spreading too far). We can have a few SOD's early and take on our enemies sooner, rather than waiting for them to declare. Only from industrialization and after do our cities need more space to grow, and by then it'll be too late for the AI :D . If you don't want city-2 tiles-city, at least we can go for city-3 tiles-city, but further placement would result at having the same power and productivity with the AI. Don't get me wrong, I also don't like tile overlaps, but since I moved up from chieftain and warlord, I found it very effective. Please comment.
I am not dogmatic at this question. In general I play with 1-3 tiles overlap, but in special caces I can go 1 tile between Cities.
(See my Fishpoint City in SGOTM1 (AKOTS)). I think it is more important to find good individual place for each City (taking into account corruption and good communication between them). Also we should grab Lux and Resources. We have plenty fresh water, so many Cities will reach size 12 "soon", we should care about it... I often irrigate first, and when City saturates to 12 plant forest, cut and mine tile. Unfortunately in Civ1.29 forest can be cut only ones. Another important (For Deity-Emperor) is to prevent AI expansion. If we play Deity I would go to Spices first, and then somewhere else. I never play Monarch before, I skip from Regent to Emperor and found it simple...
Any suggestion how long our Game will be? My bet (from stars-coffe-finger) is 1000AD+/- 200. This figure is most important to estimate efficiency of investments and style of playing....
Regards, Ivan.

This is my "got it".

I.Larkin. if you're bet comes true I'd be happy!

EDIT: We're losing 5gpt(193g, -5gpt) - Writing in 22. Do you agree to research at that rate?(100%) I can't play, if I don't know what are our ideas and strategy. Our treasury, is after making the deal with Cathrin(IW).

One thing that helped me research at a loss was to do one turn at min science (10% or a scientist) to build cash then back to max... the extra turn doesn't really make a difference. 22 turns at -5gpt=110 gold lost, still leaves us with cash in the bank but what about the next tech? Do you think we will get much gold for IW? I tend to believe the AI usually researches it at a highish priority so by the time 22 turns are up they could already have it! We need more cities (as the F1 advisor keeps going on about!) to be able to crank up the research.
Question is do we grab them from the English or Russians (could be corrupt for a while) or build our own? If it falls to me I think we would be better off building them, but that's just because I'm pants at fighting! If we get into a war on my turn I'll be posting after each move saying "ok, now what?!?" ;)
Good luck!

EDIT: Forgot to ask a question before..
I was just checking the scores graph and was wondering what our collective experience is? I'll freely admit most of my SP games are on Regent/warlord but I did just win GOTM31 (barely, but it was still a win!) and I've won a couple of others. It would be interesting to see how our team is made up since we seem to be beating some of the other teams who I know have great players! Sorry guys but I've not seen any of your posts in the GOTM spoilers (because I've had a 6 month sabbatical! ;) ) so I'm not too sure where I would rank! Sorry if that sounded a bit weird but I found it hard to phrase without offending you guys!
Also am I the only female on our team? Can't tell by username/post style!

Our current treasury is AFTER I made the deal the team suggested. I sold IW to Russia.
England can't pay us anything.

oops misread writing, thought you said IW! In that case... GO FOR IT!!!
Writing is a great tech to get! Where do you see us going next? (techwise!)

I was thinking for Lit(libraries)/Mathematics/Currency(markets).
Ok, I'll keep our current research rate then.

I think lit is the way to go... don't let me build the GL (or even attempt it) even if I beg! I need to beat this wonder addiction!
What turn are we up to? (around turn 50? 1750BC?)
If you're finished in time I'll play my turns tomorrow night... can't miss Friends on Thursday (penultimate episode... any US residents had better not spoil it for me! ;) :D )

Pre-turn: trade IW with Cathrin and get 118g + 5gpt(as you suggested). We’re loosing -5gpt, and I don’t know if we can afford science at 100% - we’ll lose . We also need to build our units, among others. MM Berlin and Leipzig to take granary in 3 / warrior in 5.

Turn 1, 2110BC: keep exploring, irrigate wheat in Leipzig.

Turn 2, 2070BC: the same.

Turn 3, 2030BC: Berlin: granary -> settler in 4.

Ibt: Russia starts the Oracle.

Turn 4, 1990BC: waiting.

Turn 5, 1950BC : Leipzig: warrior -> granary. Worker starts road at Leipzig.

Turn 6, 1910BC: Our warrior deserts a Seltzuk village and we gain 25g.

Turn 7, 1870BC: Liz had/has no money, but knows IW. Cathrin knows HB and Mysticism. She offers Mysticism for 150g(after bargain), but we can’t afford it at this rate of research.

Turn 8, 1830BC: Berlin: settler -> spearman. I’m going for the spices.

Turn 9, 1790BC: Worker finishes mine in BG near Berlin. He’s going to road towards our future city. Worker at Leipzig chops forest to get our granary quickly. We’re are going to have to 2 spices soon.

Turn 10, 1750BC: Settler and warrior are in position for our new city. Archer and warrior keep exploring.

Summary: I didn’t like that we’re losing so much gpt to research Writing. If Cathrin gets it before us, our gambit would be a disaster. We really need 2 workers per city. I know that we’ll prevent expansion for a while this way, but think how fast our cities would develop and produce more settlers/units/workers. Working the land is crucial. Even with fewer cities, they couldn’t touch us. Maybe we settle 1 more city near the ivory and then built workers to improve the terrain before continue our expansion. It’s late, and maybe my mind doesn’t function properly, so I’ll post more ideas/suggestions – tomorrow.

EDIT: Feel free to criticise me, I didn't like very much the way I played(especially for losing our gold).

I'm waiting for ages to upload an image, so I'll only post the save. Sorry.
save (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55037&stc=1)

EDIT: We're losing 5gpt(193g, -5gpt) - Writing in 22. Do you agree to research at that rate?(100%) I can't play, if I don't know what are our ideas and strategy. Our treasury, is after making the deal with Cathrin(IW).
My idea yes. (I may be wrong, however). 9 gpt to Cathy expire in 15 turns, so we can continue research at 100% for next tech. My preliminary suggession is (in order) Literacy, Phylosophy, Code of Law, MapMaking, Math, Currency, Republic. Or Literacy, Phylosophy, Code of Law, MapMaking, Republic, Math, Currency. Or Literacy, MapMaking, Math, Phylosophy, Code of Law, Republic, Currency. [last one is the best, IMHO]. We may trade what we done for Cash or for tech from this list. For example, we do not need HB Riding now (horses too far away) and Misticizm, we can get it when both Cathy and Lis will have it and it will be cheaper. It is difficult to predict this for long time, what is better, in fact each tech will take 15-20 turns and I have 8 in the list... We also may get into war and will have to connect Iron and upgrade, so cash is limited...

Just look at the save. Is it real? What happend, Alex!? Why Berlin size 1? Did you poprash settler? Or massive barbs? Why you send settler south?
Lots of questions...

still can't understand. If Berlin produce settler in 4 it must be size 4. Size 3 City can only make 7 shields. So it should be size 2 at least...
May be file corrupt? Or may be you put zero growth and make settler in 5 actually?

Pre-turn: trade IW with Cathrin and get 118g + 5gpt(as you suggested). We’re loosing -5gpt, and I don’t know if we can afford science at 100% - we’ll lose . We also need to build our units, among others. MM Berlin and Leipzig to take granary in 3 / warrior in 5.


Turn 3, 2030BC: Berlin: granary -> settler in 4.

EDIT: Feel free to criticise me, I didn't like very much the way I played(especially for losing our gold).
OK, first of all, you kill idea of Settler Factory. The basic idiea is to have 5 food surplus and build settler each 4 turns without losing population. Let me explain, how it works at our examle (you may also read Bamspeedy article about that or look SG "revenge of Babilonians settler, roster A).
For settler factory we need irigate/mined land around Berlin + one more mined grasland (I thought it will be SW grassland near river, it has one more gold). Size 4 Berlin may produce 6 shields and 5 food surplus. It will in fact at first turn. Second turn Berlin grow to size 5 and Labor jump to Forest (It is nice to have roaded forest for more gold). As a result we have 6+8=14 shilds for settler. (Governor of, of cource).
Now we have to Micromanage and put 5th labor to mined grassland and third turn we have 7 shield production and again 5 food surplus. Also, we may need to ajust Lux to avoid riot. So after third turn we have 6+8+7 shields for settler. Next turn, however berlin virtually grow to size 6, Labor again go to Forest and it gives 9 shields in fact that enough to finish settler 6+8+7+9=30. We may put Lux to 0% again.
Please, ask me if something unclear!
Settler factory is unique opportunity to settle huge continent we have, we may have 10 Cities in 40 turns, in comparison we had only two in first 40 turns. Needless to say, that with 12-14 Cities we will be "unbeatable" and research will go 5-6 turns per tech.

One thing that helped me research at a loss was to do one turn at min science (10% or a scientist) to build cash then back to max... the extra turn doesn't really make a difference. 22 turns at -5gpt=110 gold lost, still leaves us with cash in the bank but what about the next tech? Do you think we will get much gold for IW? I tend to believe the AI usually researches it at a highish priority so by the time 22 turns are up they could already have it! We need more cities (as the F1 advisor keeps going on about!) to be able to crank up the research.
Question is do we grab them from the English or Russians (could be corrupt for a while) or build our own? If it falls to me I think we would be better off building them, but that's just because I'm pants at fighting! If we get into a war on my turn I'll be posting after each move saying "ok, now what?!?" ;)
Good luck!

EDIT: Forgot to ask a question before..
I was just checking the scores graph and was wondering what our collective experience is? I'll freely admit most of my SP games are on Regent/warlord but I did just win GOTM31 (barely, but it was still a win!) and I've won a couple of others. It would be interesting to see how our team is made up since we seem to be beating some of the other teams who I know have great players! Sorry guys but I've not seen any of your posts in the GOTM spoilers (because I've had a 6 month sabbatical! ;) ) so I'm not too sure where I would rank! Sorry if that sounded a bit weird but I found it hard to phrase without offending you guys!
Also am I the only female on our team? Can't tell by username/post style!
Dear mabellino,
First answer to your questions:
I think we may continue research at 100%. Lit is our priority, we need libs as cheap culture improuvment and they will accelerate our research. I hate pay to AI for reseach as it founded their future... Only strategical Tech can be bought/changed for ours, or for cash.
See my "research" post for details.
I am also not so good at war, I resonably good at defensive mode, but poor atacker. For the current position I think our troops far to far from home, barbs already active, also our military is weak compare to English. I think we should direct troops home and build more military. I suggest to change Leipzig to Barracks and then build sperar. Or spear, barracks, spear. Please Mmg not to vest shields from forest. Then send spear to Berlin. Also at new City (build it at spot, please) better to build warrior and barracks then.
About me. My name is Ivan, it is Russian male name. I think King Alex man as well. Not sure about Ankka. (In Russia it is girl's name).
BTW, are you at essex University? Which Department? What your research area? I am Research Scientist at Georgia State Uni, Physics. I never played GOTM, cant coope with software they ask to download. In my home game I always play Deity, but almost never finish - game become boring when I see that I defenetly win... I lost few however, but won more games. I am very good in Mcmnging, City plasment, military roading, defense war, trade... May be my weak point is that I Sciense adicktive person and Build Libs, Unis, Copernicus, Newton if I can. I hate religious improuvments... I don't like Greate Library, it make me loose research initiative.
Good luck at playing! Unfortunately you will not start Settler Factory.
First of all you shuld recover Berlin to size 4. It is your first
priority! But it also needs spear. As compromise, I suggest 2+2+3+3 food (first two turns "as it is" on BG, next two turns on wheat), then Wheat + Game recover to size 3 and 4 in 2 turns each. Then set it to worker and we will have worker each 2 turns keeping size 4. Use MP, don't let to barbs step on Wheat. Connect Spiecy City with Berlin. That's all you can do in your turns, hope Ankka will put us back on track... If Cathy discover writing first you may pursher it for reasonable price... If English declare war, don't panic, stay on high ground, do not atack their warriors on mountings. Again, I hope Ankka will manage...
Regards, Ivan.
PS, please, writte your suggestions befor playing, I will be at Internet at your late evening (7-8 pm or so).

OK I've looked at the save and have a couple of small suggestions.

1. If I set the citizen in Berlin to work the Irrigated Game tile we will grow to size 2 in 3 turns with the spear in a predicted 7 turns (game's prediction!)
Firstly I think getting Berlin back to size 3/4 is a high priority, higher even than an extra spearman. I tend to build too many defensive units and have been trying to undo the bad habit by building more offensive ones. The AI assess your military on how much damage it can potentially do to them so offensive units count more than defensive in determining military strength. I think a spearman at this early stage is an expensive unit. We'd be better off builing a couple of warriors and upgraging to swords when we get our iron hooked up.

2. I've also tried to emphasize growth in Leipzig, a size 1 city will take many turns to build a granary but by growing it a bit first, we can have 1 citizen working a high food tile supporting others on high shield tiles. The game's predicition of how long things take to build doesn't allow for city growth, especially when we have emphasize production on.

3. The settler heading south needs to found a city asap and those spices are a prime target. We desperately need a city by the Ivory too to stop the AI grabbing it. We need iron and horses too. I think one of our cities desperately needs to be a settler farm, workers won't have as much impact as a city provides quick and ready gpt and much needed unit support as well as new territory full of resources. I think we should refrain from building a new worker until we have at least 2 more settlers.

One last , more general point: I've noticed that our posts seem a bit erratic when describing our turns. What do you guys think about sticking to a format for the update posts and the rest can be any style? An easy to read turn log (like King Alex's above) will save us time and help me avoid mis reading things like earlier with the IW/writing blunder! :blush:
We also need to upload our saves to the Upload Server (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm.php) so we can keep an eye on how we're doing.

This is my official "got it" by the way!
I'll hold off from playing anymore until Ivan has had chance to read this post

OK I've looked at the save and have a couple of small suggestions.

1. If I set the citizen in Berlin to work the Irrigated Game tile we will grow to size 2 in 3 turns with the spear in a predicted 7 turns (game's prediction!)
Firstly I think getting Berlin back to size 3/4 is a high priority, higher even than an extra spearman. I tend to build too many defensive units and have been trying to undo the bad habit by building more offensive ones. The AI assess your military on how much damage it can potentially do to them so offensive units count more than defensive in determining military strength. I think a spearman at this early stage is an expensive unit. We'd be better off builing a couple of warriors and upgraging to swords when we get our iron hooked up.

2. I've also tried to emphasize growth in Leipzig, a size 1 city will take many turns to build a granary but by growing it a bit first, we can have 1 citizen working a high food tile supporting others on high shield tiles. The game's predicition of how long things take to build doesn't allow for city growth, especially when we have emphasize production on.

3. The settler heading south needs to found a city asap and those spices are a prime target. We desperately need a city by the Ivory too to stop the AI grabbing it. We need iron and horses too. I think one of our cities desperately needs to be a settler farm, workers won't have as much impact as a city provides quick and ready gpt and much needed unit support as well as new territory full of resources. I think we should refrain from building a new worker until we have at least 2 more settlers.

One last , more general point: I've noticed that our posts seem a bit erratic when describing our turns. What do you guys think about sticking to a format for the update posts and the rest can be any style? An easy to read turn log (like King Alex's above) will save us time and help me avoid mis reading things like earlier with the IW/writing blunder! :blush:
We also need to upload our saves to the Upload Server (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm.php) so we can keep an eye on how we're doing.

This is my official "got it" by the way!
I'll hold off from playing anymore until Ivan has had chance to read this post
Good plan in general. don't forget to send troops home. I recomend swich to Berlin to Game next turn (not in "pre-turn") the result will be the same. When it grow to size 2 put Labors on Wheat and Game.
I am not sure shall we wait until "Settler Factory" ready or we can build next setler after Spear in Berlin. I recomend Build Hamburg where it is, on Spieces, send Warrior 1 tile west for observation.
Build Warrior then Barracks in Hamburd, use forest for Labor, not Grassland.
Regards, Ivan

When Settler Factory starts, we can build lot of cities. (This is dream, however...). I think we can build City 2 before the Factory will be ready. Problem is that we need lot of workers to improve this Land and army to defend...

Ok I've played my turns.

Quick summary:
England keeps threatening our borders but haven't declared yet. We've discovered writing and now have 2 embassies (Russia and England). 177gold and researching Lit at 100% (-3gpt) in 19 turns. Russia know the French, I figure they are South or South East of Moscow since the English haven't met them.

Score 115 (3rd place behind AI)

Turn Log:
1725BC (1)
Build Hamburg on top of spices, fortify warrior. Send SE warrior to Hamburg and let Archer spy on English for a few more turns.
MM Berlin to grow in 2 turns and build spear in 11.
MM Leipzig to grow in 3 turns and Barracks in 8.

1700BC (2) Nothing interesting

1675BC (3)
MM Berlin to get spear in 2 turns, grow in 5 since the English are approaching.
MM Hamburg to get warrior in 4 turns at zero growth (for now)

1650bc (4)
Leipzig grows to Pop 2, barracks in 1 turn, grow in 10.
Contact both rivals, nothing to buy/ sell

1625BC (5)
England send 2 warriors inside our borders :(
Berlin Spear completes, fortify, build another in 4 turns.
Leipzig builds Barracks, set to build Spear

1600BC (6)
Worker completes road, move south to road to Hamburg.
Barb warrior approaches Berlin from N
English change direction (?)
Now making 2gpt, writing in 5 turns.

1575BC (7)
English change direction again.
Hamburg completes warrior, set to spear in 20turns, grow in 8

1550BC (8) Inter turn: Barbs attack we win with no damage, 1st Palace improvement :D
Move warrior from SE to guard worker building road.

1525BC (9)
Leipzig builds spear --> Archer in 7
Berlin builds Spear --> Walls in 2
Send new spear to Hamburg as English appear to be threatening it.
Adjust slider to get writing in 1 turn at +15gpt.

1500BC (10)
Discover Writing, go for lit in 19turns at -3gpt
Russians and English haven't met yet :lol: take advantage and sell contact with English to Cath for 100gold+worker :) They would probably have met next turn! Fools!
English are broke so can't buy from Cath.
Russians know the French, held off trading contact as I think we'll find them soon.
Establish embassies and take screenshots of Moscow and London.
New slave worker heads towards Leipzig to help connect it to Berlin.
Hamburg now has garrison of 3 warriors.


Recommendations:
English seem to be on the verge of declaring war, keep building military for now until we have a strong or average mil.
Berlin is almost size 4, recommend we turn it into a settler farm and build spears to escort them.
Hamburg needs walls as will not reach pop7 until aqueducts.

Here's the save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Ankka_SG002_BC1500_01.SAV)
EDIT: Forgot the screenshots!

Graete play Ma' bell! Simply have no words how good it is!
I will write my suggestions next post.
Ivan

I.Larkin: thanks for your tips about the settler factory, really. I hadn't understood it clearly un I'm trying to get used in MM my cities(this is the second game that I do it): I admit it, this is my weak point(I hope not any longer, after your explanation). I'll try to do my best. I'm a lot better at offence or defence(IMHO). I agree with your thoughts/suggestions. I'm also a bit curious to see what we'll achieve with our science at that high rate: I've never done this(with a treasury that low) and you seem to know where it will leed us. But, your planning seems very logical.
Woudn't be a good idea to keep exploring with our warrior and archer?
I agree, as I've previously said, that we should post our ideas/suggestions BEFORE playing and wait for the others to reply. Maybe I didn't waited long enough, yesterday. Better to play our turns slower to prevent any bad moves.
I've sent the settler south, to get the spices(and to expand towards the AI). Next settler should be near the ivory, IMHO.

Mabellino: proceed with your suggestions and correct(if possible) my mistakes.
I've attached the save, because I can't wait for ages to upload my saves. When the upload seems to be done, it stucks in the same first page and I don't get the second confirmation page. I've succeeded only once so far in another game. Yesterday, I was trying for an hour to upload, unsuccessfully though. I don't know what the problem is. I'll keep trying, anyway.

Also am I the only female on our team? Can't tell by username/post style!
I'm a male and my name is Vasilis, "Vasili" when someone speaks with me: without the "s". I know, this name is also used in Russian and comes from the same religion[I'm not a religious person, though, nor I would describe myself as an atheist: I simply have my own beliefs]; enough said! Maybe I'm offending someone :) ).

By the way, Ivan is "John" in English(If I'm correct).

mabellino: good turns and thinking :goodjob: Don't warry about the English: with 2 spearmen and walls in our cities, they can't touch us. Good move to sell the 2 fools contacts :lol:

I.Larkin's suggested city sites for our next 3-4 cities are also what I'd suggested, so let's do it. Later on, we'll see what the AI has done and decide again. Spearmen should escort every settler from now on. We should also prepare a city(Leipzig?) to produce spearmen/workers, so Berlin has to built only settlers. Workers will be the key factor for our developement. If we can buy them crippling the AI, even better.

mabellino: good turns and thinking :goodjob: Don't warry about the English: with 2 spearmen and walls in our cities, they can't touch us. Good move to sell the 2 fools contacts :lol:

I.Larkin's suggested city sites for our next 3-4 cities are also what I'd suggested, so let's do it. Later on, we'll see what the AI has done and decide again. Spearmen should escort every settler from now on. We should also prepare a city(Leipzig?) to produce spearmen/workers, so Berlin has to built only settlers. Workers will be the key factor for our developement. If we can buy them crippling the AI, even better.
First of all i think, that there is no immidiate threat to Berlin, please change it for settler in your preturn. Also micromanage Berlin for max production but grow in 1 turn, as on the picture.
Next turns, please micromanage to ensure 5 food surplus.
It will finsh settler in 4 turns and will be "3.5" size. Again micromanage to ensure 5 food surplus. Next settler will be in 5 turn leaving 4.0 size. Again, keep 5 food surplus and set for workers until "Setler Factory" (my blue dream) will be ready.
I hope you experience enough to carry out war, if happend. We have 2 speras in front and strong garnison in Hamburg. Up to you, to decide what Leipzig will build. Send your suggestions, before and after.
Regards, Ivan
Good luck.

May be barracks in Hamburg will be better? Or walls?

About turn log format: I thought, that my picture+text good enough to illustrate what have happend, but may be you prefer "standart" format as Alex and mabell did?

Another suggestion: may be we send warrior from leipzig to Berlin and willl pump warriors in Leipzig? Just in case, if things will go "nasty" we can connect Iron and upgrade...

Got it, playing today or tomorrow.

I.Larkin: I'll try hard to follow your suggestions about the settler factory. Again, I thank you for your advice :goodjob: Please, give futher suggestions in future, if I'll do anything stupid :cry:
First, I'd built walls in Hamburg, because if the enemy attacks, they'll do it from the west mountains. I'd built workers from Hamburg, as we need a lot of them to improve the terrain and connect the Iron asap. Let's expand to get the ivory and insence. I'd also like us to get a horse site at some point.
I would prepare for war, when England or Russia reaches at our front cities. We could get 3-4 cities within a few turns and prepare for another strike later. As soon as we can control them, the better. After that, we can settle the unclaimed land and raise our science(we'd have to drop it, while before/in war).

EDIT: I'd built walls in all our front cities, no matter who the enemy is.

EDIT 2: I'd go for mabellino's turn log format.

King Alex, I also think walls in Hamburg are a great idea. Those mountains are too tempting for the AI and it will take a while to grow to size7 so we'll get our money's worth!
Leipzig and Berlin both have barracks, do we need to build them in Hamburg too? I'm undecided.
I've uploaded King Alex's save from before mine to the server as my broadband connection doesn't struggle with it. I'll be happy to do this all the time if you like.

I'm really proud of hoodwinking the Russians like that! I still can't believe they hadn't met the English since their cities are sooooooo close together! There's been a Russian scout lurking around Leipzig for a few turns too.

Let's get some more cities built and grab some horses and iron (as well as that incense). I think Lizzie will think twice about any sneak attack!

I'm really enjoying this game and I'm proud I haven't messed it up yet. Really felt the pressure at first, as a Regent player who rarely wins by anything other than Diplo and Space. I'd love to get a conquest victory under my belt!

Go team! :goodjob: :goodjob: :D

Leipzig and Berlin both have barracks, do we need to build them in Hamburg too? I'm undecided.
I've uploaded King Alex's save from before mine to the server as my broadband connection doesn't struggle with it. I'll be happy to do this all the time if you like.

I'm really enjoying this game and I'm proud I haven't messed it up yet. Really felt the pressure at first, as a Regent player who rarely wins by anything other than Diplo and Space. I'd love to get a conquest victory under my belt!

Go team! :goodjob: :goodjob: :D

Unfortunately, I'm not that proud myself, having messed up our team's effort for a sttler factory :cry:
We definetly need barracks in our cities(AND walls in our front cities). England and Russia will settle the land towards us, really quickly. Soon, they'll begin demanding this or that(I hate that :mad: ). They're surely going to declare, if we have a weak military. After 3-4 cities more, let's concentrate to improve the land and produce our SoD's. We'll take their cities(I hope, above 1pop, so they can't be razed): better than built ours and be weak militarily(IMHO).
mabellino, sooner or later, you're going to be able to win by any kind of victory(I think, soon enough :) ), so don't warry especially.
I'll keep trying uploading; if I have problems in doing so, I'll notify you. Thanks :)
I'm at work now, and I find time to read the posts between breaks or when things aren't very stressed.
Off topic: what do you do with your custom avatar? You have to reach 300 posts to have one? You upload the image to the server or attach it? I want an avatar with my beloved canaries :lol:

Anything about avatars: check this thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=75152) for info.

But I can say that you need 300 posts. After that you go to your user CP, then "edit avatar" (on the left side of the screen) and then you can upload the image you want from your computer. :)

Playing now.

Main targets: to get as many cities as possible & build defenders & workers.

My game seems to crash every time a diplomacy screen should open. Ivan should play now while I'm rying to get the problem fixed. :undecide:

My game seems to crash every time a diplomacy screen should open. Ivan should play now while I'm rying to get the problem fixed. :undecide:
I had the same problem with my new computer: never found out what was it, because I gave it to my mother(after my nerves had broken) and I took back my old one. Really strange. So, you've got the diplomacy crash: maybe, also, your screen flickers when you get to MM?

MM? Map Making?

No, I haven't had problems like that. And I've played civ for a long time on this computer without a problem... It just started now suddenly when playing this game.

MM? Map Making?

No, I haven't had problems like that. And I've played civ for a long time on this computer without a problem... It just started now suddenly when playing this game.
Sorry, I meant micro manage.

@Ankka,
I don't know of any setup or compatibility issues for this game. Besides, it does not even belong to the modded GOTMs.
You may want to talk to MB and/or Alan about your troubles if you think they are related to this specific game, anyway.

OK, I got it. I acctually wrote my suggestons before: Not to build walls in Berlin, but Settlers, (2 in a row), build Walls in Hamburg, pump warriors in Leipzig. Settle at dots in order.
Another idea come: what if we renegotiate peace treaty with England? If we give them Writing and some GPT, may be they leave us in peace? We can't benefit from war at this stage...

@Karasu: I think it's my vanilla civ... I haven't played a game with it for a while, actually. But It has worked very well so far... dunno what the problem is. I just hope I don't need to reinstall it...

I.Larkin: I trust you, after what I saw ;) We are not wanting a war at this point. So, proceed with your plan, but have a spearman in all our cities. We must first "have" an army ready to strike before doing any plans for war.

I.Larkin: I'll try hard to follow your suggestions about the settler factory. Again, I thank you for your advice :goodjob: Please, give futher suggestions in future, if I'll do anything stupid :cry:
First, I'd built walls in Hamburg, because if the enemy attacks, they'll do it from the west mountains. I'd built workers from Hamburg, as we need a lot of them to improve the terrain and connect the Iron asap. Let's expand to get the ivory and insence. I'd also like us to get a horse site at some point.
I would prepare for war, when England or Russia reaches at our front cities. We could get 3-4 cities within a few turns and prepare for another strike later. As soon as we can control them, the better. After that, we can settle the unclaimed land and raise our science(we'd have to drop it, while before/in war).

EDIT: I'd built walls in all our front cities, no matter who the enemy is.

EDIT 2: I'd go for mabellino's turn log format.
OK, let me explain Settler factory idea again.
(As a bad poem and Picture.)
Turn one: Labors at Game, Wheat and Bon-Graslans.
Turn two: nothing to do.
Third turn most important! Labor from Forest to grassland!
Turn four: nothing to do anymore!
Setler ready! And then again:
Turn one: Labors at Game, Wheat and Bon-Graslans...
....
In normal words I will do the same, at turn 3 I'll micromange to swich Labor from forest (red F) to grassland (blue M) Unfortunately it is not mined yet, so Settler will be in 5 turns, not in 4. So Berlin wil grow at 0.5 size after each settler. I think it is OK, to have 2 settlers, and then decide what to do. (Accually it will be your turns Alex). I think 2 more Cities is a MUST, but not sure about next. May be OK to continue settler/5 turns and let Berlin grow... If so it will not need walls soon.
About Format. Turn logs in "standart" form as you and mabell did looks OK, but it is unclear, how you and mabell micromanage Berlin and how you both moved troops. Also I'd like to know how English moved, I think it depend on our build-up and maneuvers.

I was practising in an epic game with Germany, and I only managed to have a 6 turn settler factory, but it wasn't at the same terrain as this is. You said that the idea is to have 5 food surplus every turn and adjust the shields when needed. So, we need to mine that grass asap.
About the turn log: I'll give a more detailed turn log with micro-manage and troop moves, at least until everything is clear and explained.
Again, thanks for the valuable information.
I don't know if I'm going to play next; maybe Ankka has solved his computer problems(?).

No, Ivan is next, you're after him.

The roster looks like this, you see:


mabellino - just played
Ankka - vanilla civ problems. :(
I.Larkin - UP!
King Alexander - on deck

No, Ivan is next, you're after him.
Dear Ankka, do you have any suggestions for me how to play?
Shall I renegotiate peace with England? Any tips how to carry out war if happend?
Regards, Ivan.

All I can say is that you should try and get the Settler factory working. If England attacks, defed and try to make peace. You could also try and get Russia into the war... I think you know what to do. :)

All I can say is that you should try and get the Settler factory working. If England attacks, defed and try to make peace. You could also try and get Russia into the war... I think you know what to do. :)
Alliance with Russians vs England is not a good idea. First, it costs money, second we will bound for 20 turn war...

Dear I.Larkin: I believe you can carry out a war situation :) You actually know what you have to do:
1) build walls in our front cities
2) have 2 spearmen in our front cities and 1 in all others.
You can make the first 2 steps before war, to be ready just in case...
3) build barracks in the cities they don't have(after walls)
4) Just stay on defence if war comes, and have 1 more spearman in our front cities. Produce a few swordsmen if you can, to take out the injured units.
That was all. With 3 spearmen in our front cities and walls, you have to fear nothing ;) The AI will not come organized in SoD's, rather send a couple of units every now and then and your spears will have time to heal.
But I believe you knew the steps already :) I believe you're going to do fine.

EDIT: I'm going to use my 24h got it, to give Ankka time for his computer problems, so he can play his turn and not miss it.

The save runs OK for me, including diplomacy. It may be that your diplomacy.txt file or your Pediaicons.txt file is screwed.

I can give you "clean" English language versions, but you will have to backup your originals first.

after backing up the originals in the <basedir>/Text directory, replace them with >>THESE<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/MBText.zip)

I played accually. Here is a question...

Dear I.Larkin: I believe you can carry out a war situation :) You actually know what you have to do:
1) build walls in our front cities
2) have 2 spearmen in our front cities and 1 in all others.
You can make the first 2 steps before war, to be ready just in case...
3) build barracks in the cities they don't have(after walls)
4) Just stay on defence if war comes, and have 1 more spearman in our front cities. Produce a few swordsmen if you can, to take out the injured units.
That was all. With 3 spearmen in our front cities and walls, you have to fear nothing ;) The AI will not come organized in SoD's, rather send a couple of units every now and then and your spears will have time to heal.
But I believe you knew the steps already :) I believe you're going to do fine.

EDIT: I'm going to use my 24h got it, to give Ankka time for his computer problems, so he can play his turn and not miss it.
This "program" take 30 turns approximately but I had only 10. I think better go to the deal above and breath normally. We have enough cash to carry on 100% research...

I.Larkin, what happened? They declared first? Have you finished your 10 turns? Maybe you've asked them to leave or declare?

EDIT: We can pay them 60g for peace treaty, IF we want to make peace. The military advisor says we're weak vs England, but their cities are small(size 1-2) and they can't built enough units to become a real threat. If they had cities right in front of our borders and we had Iron connected, I'd give them a lesson to remember, but for now, it's better to pay them.
We really need 2 spearmen to escort our settlers, really.
After we settle near the Iron and incense, let's stick to my previous suggestion.
IMHO, we should expand towards the AI. I really want us to control all those mountains. It's harder to fight them in mountains if they settle near them.
For the time being, we need to emphasize our defence and work the land as soon as possible. When we can't expand towards the AI anymore, I'd say it's time for war preparations. We can take the land to the north later on.
Let's play it the good fellows, for a while. What do you think?

I.Larkin, what happened? They declared first? Have you finished your 10 turns? Maybe you've asked them to leave or declare?
I am writing my turnlog now, they declare themself first turn.I finish, save attached. Do you whant it by E-mail?

No, thank you. I haven't any problem downloading, though it takes some time.
I've edited my previous post and said my plan. That's why I insisted on having our settlers escorted by 2 spearmen. A new city needs 20 turns for a regular spearman, where in the same time it could built a worker AND walls.
I prefer to pay them cash(do you think gpt is better?). In the 20 turns that we have peace treaty, we can build more units, so they think twice about declaring again or demand tributes.

EDIT: We can lower our science to 90% to get Lit in the same turns as with 100%. After that, we could sell them Lit to get other techs and gpt and have the gold needed to support our army. They're going to built the GL, loosing so many shields :rolleyes:

0 1500 Bc
Production changed: Berlin-> Settler, Leipzig->Warrior, Hamburd->Walls. No Mcmg.
Cathy want 130 g for contact (after neg.), English below writing. Renegotiate peace with English (put res to 0%). She agrees Peace treaty for Writing and 3 gpt or for 6 gpt. Decided to give Writing and 3 gpt. Slide back to 100% research (-6gpt). Move vet warrior from Leipzig to Berlin.
IBT
English declare war! Cheap bastards! Our vet warrior won without loosing hp.
Horse barb appear near archer from North.

1 1475 Bc
Berlin size 4 at least. Mcmg to wheat, game, and BGs.
Vet Warrior attack reg English archer and won again without loosing hp. Two mor warriors at the West. Move Spear to Hamburg, and reg warrior to west mount. Slave worker road. (12 turns).
IBT
2 english warriors move SE, horse barb move SW.
2 1450 Bc
Reg warrior fortifies on west mount. Vet war -> SE. Spear fortifies. Archer North.
Leipzig warrior west.

IBT
two english warriors move NW, horse barb move S.
3 1425 Bc
Berlin Size 5! Mmcmg from forest F to grassland M. Settler in 1. Archer NE. Leipzig warrior west.
IBT
two english warriors move NW. Berlin Settler->Settler.
4 1400 Bc
Mmg Berlin for 5 food surplus. Vet Hamburg warrior NW (two wrr om mount W Hamb)
This was my defence mistake, actually. I could move reg warrior NW and Spear to West mount. Three units could block English entirely. Also that move virtually protect Berlin.
Leipzig warrior west. Archer E
Settler+reg warrior move to Ivory.
IBT
Two English warriors move N. Leipzig build Warrior.->Warrior.
5 1375 BC
Settler+reg warrior move at position. Leipzig warrior arrives to Berlin. Have no Idea what to do with Hamburg. Leave as it is (Spear +reg warr at Hamburg Reg+vet warr on mount). Again my mistake. Proper move would be to send one warrior back to Hamburg…
Archer North. See barb camp.
IBT
Horse barb come to warrior+Settler from North. English move to Spisies.
6 1350 BC
Decisive combats.
Near Hamburg
Vet warrior vs Eng. Reg warrior die Eng promote lose 2 HP.
Reg warrior vs Eng. Reg warrior won, promote lose 1 HP
Reg warrior vs Eng. Reg warrior die, Eng lose 1 HP
Spear vs Eng. Reg warrior won, Eng lose 1 HP
Near Ivory
Reg warrior kill barb Horse, lose 1 HP.
Our military “average” with English but they don’t want to talk.
Found Kenigsberg , send reg warrior from Berlin to Kenigsberg.
Archer move toward barb camp. Hamburg worker move to grassland.
IBT
Wall in Hamburg->worker.
7 1325 BC
Archer attack barb camp. Win, loose 1 HP. Warrior fortify, second Leipzig warrior west. Warrior fortify, Spear to Hamburg.
IBT
Nothing.
8 1300
Archer east.
IBT
Berlin Settler->worker
9 1275 BC
English agree to talk; they up mysticism and want 60 gold for peace.
Postpone.
Second Leipzig warrior move to iron to check area for next City.
Settler alone move behind.
IBT
Leipzig warrior->warrior. (I am not sure, may be worker better).
10 1250 BC
Have no idea where to move troops. Warrior From Iron SE. Left others fortified, things depend will we take peace or not.
Cathy do not sell French contact for all our gold (172).

Suggestions-Recomendation.
I think we can go to to deal with Lis (60 gold for peace). if we build workers our army will not be stronger. Lump sum better, becase she may not "renegotiate" after 20 turns and god knows, how long we will pay 3gpt to her. If "yes" then Leipzig will also build worker. Worker from Hamburg will go to"M" point to mine. You may exersise "settler factory" once, using "Hamburg's Grassland" mine there will ready in 3 turns, so Berlin->worker-> Settler and then as in my algorithm, but use another MINED grassland. Then (In 4 turns, please) Library in Berlin, it is better to have strong low corrupt large City with Library then lot of others. We may build more settlers when Berlin grow up. [It will not be a factory, however]. After Litrature better to have MapMaking. We are not ready to sail yet, but it will be nice to get their WM, AI ALLWAYS knows where barb camps are (If they are on map) it will make defence lot easer. Not sure, shall we trade Literature "at once" or better to get MMking to combine trade with Maps.
Nexp post about improuvment theretory.

Wite dots- future cities. Red line future road. Navy arrows - worker movment.

mine grasslands first road other first.

On a quick view looks like nice turns. :goodjob:


Thanks to you too, Mad-bax. I'll try it. :)

Thanks for the detailed information, I.Larkin. I exercized a lot yesterday for settler factories in epic games(since, the game rules don't allow one to play way past his 10 turns). Keep them coming, until you see that I become better. :goodjob:

I'd make peace treaty with Liz for now. I was thinking to place our next cities clockwise but only from the south-north: better to have a few more cities between them, as I see that they've almost cut our south land. Then, if you agree, we could expand towards the west mountains. In the next wars, it would be tough for the AI to defeat us there: this requires a lot workers for roads/terrain omprovement, but I think is worthing to try, since we would be one step from their core cities. As I've earlier said, I would escort every settler with 2 spearmen from the beginning: better defence for our new cities, and we leave them some room for worker/walls(rather than having to built spearmen in 20 themselves).

Ankka, I'll wait a reply from you. Can you play?

Go ahead. :)

I'll get skipped this time and play after mabellino again if the problem's solved.

I don't understand why we re-negotiated peace with England? They are known for sneak attacks and we just gave them a free tech! Can someone explain why we did this! I was building walls in Berlin just in case they declared on us, they would have been built next turn so would only have delayed settler by a little bit.
War is where I'm weakest but I play a good defensive strategy, very rarely lose a city or units inside it. I thought that even if the english declared we wouldn't lose anything, maybe a warrior or 2, provided our defense was good.
Other than that well done for expanding our territory and putting up a good fight against Lizzie.

Ankka, have you managed to fix your computer issues yet? If so then take your turn before mine so you don't miss too many goes.

This is my "got it". I'll play and post later.

Well, I played the previous turn(I.Larkin's) to see what happened. If I hit “enter” as the save is, in the player’s next turn they’re going to declare. If I “talk” with them and take our peace treaty back, when I try to offer them again peace treaty(“new”), they refuse and they want much more. Maybe I.Larkin took accidentally the peace treaty away from the “active” table? Because I can’t find another explanation. Or, maybe he just wanted to make a new deal(took away our “active” deal), so they leave from our territory without having to warry of declaring? Anyway, that’s past now.

Maybe I.Larkin took accidentally the peace treaty away from the “active” table? Because I can’t find another explanation. Or, maybe he just wanted to make a new deal(took away our “active” deal), so they leave from our territory without having to warry of declaring? Anyway, that’s past now.

No I did it "in purpuse". I naively thought that Lis will care about her reputation and withhold from attack. Now I have "experience".

I don't understand why we re-negotiated peace with England? They are known for sneak attacks and we just gave them a free tech! Can someone explain why we did this! I was building walls in Berlin just in case they declared on us, they would have been built next turn so would only have delayed settler by a little bit.
War is where I'm weakest but I play a good defensive strategy, very rarely lose a city or units inside it. I thought that even if the english declared we wouldn't lose anything, maybe a warrior or 2, provided our defense was good.
Other than that well done for expanding our territory and putting up a good fight against Lizzie.

Ankka, have you managed to fix your computer issues yet? If so then take your turn before mine so you don't miss too many goes.
My calculation shows that walls in Berlin will breake rithm of settler factory. Also, Berlin is our inner City and it dose not need walls. I explained in my previous post why I renegotiate peace with English.

Thanks for the detailed information, I.Larkin. I exercized a lot yesterday for settler factories in epic games(since, the game rules don't allow one to play way past his 10 turns). Keep them coming, until you see that I become better. :goodjob:

I'd make peace treaty with Liz for now. I was thinking to place our next cities clockwise but only from the south-north: better to have a few more cities between them, as I see that they've almost cut our south land. Then, if you agree, we could expand towards the west mountains. In the next wars, it would be tough for the AI to defeat us there: this requires a lot workers for roads/terrain omprovement, but I think is worthing to try, since we would be one step from their core cities. As I've earlier said, I would escort every settler with 2 spearmen from the beginning: better defence for our new cities, and we leave them some room for worker/walls(rather than having to built spearmen in 20 themselves).
May be it is too late, but in your turns you will able to build 2 City, and I think my places are best. I have no idea where you will take so many spears to defend each settler? I thought at night: what will it be better to have large Berlin with Library, Tempel and others or better to leave it at size 4 as Settler Factory but did not find answer.
Also, don't know, shall we sell Literature when it ready or wait and see? I think MM next anyway.
Could we discuss this things? If you did not breake settler factory yet again...

Pre-turn
Leave the archer where he is, to heal. Fortify warrior in Leipzig (we only need 3 spearmen in our front cities and 1 in the ones “inside”[or 1 warrior], but be sure all have spearmen, for the barbarians, as at some point they’re going to have a massive attack). I make peace with Liz and pay 60g, since we have no army to attack and we want to expand for a while and improve the land.

1225BC (1)
Berlin: worker -> settler in 5(keep the 5 food surplus). Hamburg: worker -> barracks in 20. Move worker from Hamburg to mine the grassland west of Berlin. Move worker from Berlin north to connect Konigsburg. Move warrior/settler to the suggested city spot, south of Berlin. I’m going to explore with the archer towards the English – Russian borders. We’re behind England(Mysticism) and Russia(Mysticism, Horseback Riding). Literature in 5.

Ibt:
A barb horse comes inside Konigsberg from north. Worker starts road in Konigsberg: he’s 3 tiles away from the barb horse. Worker starts mining west of Berlin. We found Frankfurt and start worker in 10(then it’ll be walls). Wake warrior outside Konigsberg/Hamburg and move them inside the cities.

1175BC (2)
Barb horse attacks warrior in Konigsberg, loses, and warrior promotes to veteran. Mm Berlin(pop5) to work the grassland and growth in 2. Worker finishes mine east of Hamburg(now barracks in 9) and starts road. Lower science in 90%(still Lit in 2) and raise Lux to 10%. Worker finishes road north of Frankfurt and moves to connect Leipzig.

Ibt
Another barb horse moves inside Konigsberg. I wake 1 veteran warrior from Hamburg to go to Konigsberg for helping eliminating the barb hut(when he finds it).

1150BC (3)
2 workers try to connect Leipzig. Berlin goes to disorder next turn(pop6) and lower science to 80%(Lit in 2) and raise lux to 20%.

1125BC (4)
Barb gets killed in Konigsberg, worker finishes road and goes to connect ivory. Next turn we get Lit. England starts the Oracle. Cathrin knows Mysticism, MM and HR –same with Liz. Drop our science to 10%(97g +16gpt).

Ibt
Liz offers contact with the French for 90g – I refuse. Another barb horse near Kongsberg.

1100BC (5)
We get Literature -> choose Philosophy in 8, science 100%(-3gpt), lux back to 0%. Berlin: settler -> library in 5(we can’t get lib in 4 yet). Leipzig: spearman -> spearman. Konigsberg: worker(moves to begin road for our 6th city) -> walls. Worker starts road for the ivory, warrior gets there to cover him from the barb horse. Fortify settler in Berlin and move the spearman from Leipzig to Berlin. Worker finishes mine east of Hamburg and moves 1west to clear the jungle: we need to “push” Hamburg’s production. Call up Cathrin and trade Lit: she offers(with bargain) Contact with the French + Mysticism + TM + 56g(all they have, she gave 40g at first). Call Liz and she gives TM + HR(but no MM and no gold: they’re broke) for Lit. Call Joan, but I don’t trade yet: she gives only 3g(all she has) for either Lit or HR. We have a strong military vs Russia and France and we’re weak vs the English. Paris is building the Pyramids. England is full of jungles(let them clear it for now, we’ll get improved land later), Russia has better terrain.

Ibt
Barb horse attacks Konigsberg, gets killed.

1075BC (6)
I attack the second barb horse with the vet warrior(protecting our worker), and kill it. Worker starts road west of Kongsberg. Archer continues exploring. Wake one reg warrior to cover worker in Konigsberg, while vet warrior will be searching for barbs to destroy.

Ibt
A reg warrior approaches Leipzig from south.

1050BC (7)
Worker finishes mine west of Berlin, starts road. Vet warrior finds barb camp right north of Konigsberg.

Ibt
A conscript barb horse attacks our vet warrior and wins easily! Another one comes near Konigsberg.

1025BC (8)
Worker connects ivory and goes 2 tiles back to irrigate. Offer Liz WM for WM + 7g and we get a better idea about the land to the west and north. Cathrin wants WM + 160g! Logical, since we don’t know anything from south and her scouts did a good job.

Ibt
Barb warrior attacks Leipzig, gets killed. One barb horse attacks our fortified warrior at the ivory, loses, warrior loses 2hp.

1000BC (9)
Hamburg: barracks -> worker in 4. Spearman/settler travel to future city, warrior finishes road, starts irrigating for new city. Raise lux to 10%, drop sciense to 90%(Phil in 4). Attack barb horse with reg warrior from Konigsberg(leaving it temporarily undefended). Establish an embassy in Paris for 54g.

Ibt
A barb horse comes near Leipzig.

975BC (10)
Berlin: library -> settler in 4. Leipzig: spearman(he’s heading to Frankfurt) -> spearman. Workers finish road to Leipzig, one returns to irrigate, the other is going to the iron mountain in Frankfurt. Worker finishes road west of Berlin, goes to help the worker in Hamburg to clear jungle. Raise lux to 20%, science goes to 80%(still Phil in 2), to keep the citizens of Berlin happy. Reg warrior returns to Konigsberg. Fortified warrior at ivory, goes to clear the barb camp(they caused us a lot of troubles): there’s only 1 conscript warrior there; better take him down before other barb horses are produced. Cathrin is broke, Liz has 18g , and Joan is also broke(you can trade Lit for WM, if you want but no gold).

Summary: We need to have one city near the incense asap, so we don’t care about rasing our lux slider so much. Try have 2 workers to clear the jungle in Hamburg, because we need it’s production. I’d suggest to expand towards England and take those mountains: we’ll take them easier when the time comes. Remember to escort our settlers with at least 1 spearman, send there 1-2 more, later. Connect the iron in Frankfurt and use the worker in production, to help(and also improve the terrain there, too). Better build walls and then something else in our new cities. We need 2 workers together to improve our land, if possible: once is improved we can build our army / city improvements a lot faster. We can improve the land of Konigsberg to build only workers.

I'll try to post the save asap.

Unbelievable :crazyeye: I've made it :goodjob: I've uploaded within 2'!!! What happened :confused: I wish I had every time this kind of uploads.
Here is the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Ankka_SG002_BC975_01.SAV)
My luck just finished. No matter how I try, I can't upload a screenshot.

Good play King Alex, except last turn. I canged production as you see. We need Libraries to expand border. Frankfurt can't build worker because it is size 1, but needs Lib to pick up Inneces.
You broke again "settler factory" but it is OK, I think we do not need it anymore.
Dear Mabel (or Ankka),
1) Please change production as on the image. (LIBraries!!!)
Then micromanage Berlin to build settler in 3 AND grow to size 5 after settler. (First turn as it is, next two turns at 10 shields per turn) ((last turn Berlin grow and will build settler in 3)) Do you understand this mechanics???? IF YOU LEAVE "as it is" real disaster will happend: Granary will be empty when Berlin grow to size 7 and we will lose all his food. BUT if you put 10 shield per turn right now it will be size 4 after settler.
I think it is our "LAST" settler from Berlin, (before war) after it build change to Temple and Spears.
2) Please send spear from Hamburg to Berlin and put Lux to 0% at preturn.
3) Please trade Literature+WM to Joahn for MapMaking+WM, she accept this deal.
DO NOT establish embassy with her, we need money to upgrade.
When Leipzig worker finish road/irrigation send him to Iron to help.
We should start our war soon. Moscow is our target.
We should start to regroupe troops NOW (warriors to Hamburg-Berlin, spears to other Cities). ((Sure, warrior should take barb camp first))
4) Irrigate Ivory, it produce more gold then "plain" plain.
I also recomend to trade Phylosphy to Cathy for her WM.
After phylosphy - Mathematics, may be at 70-80%.
Trade WM every turn we will know where barb camps are.

Dear Alex,
(if you accept crititism) you again did not micromanage OK Berlin. I emphasise: From forest, to Mined grassland. (Hamburg's). So Berlin never work as Settler factory in our game... Also, it is not nessecary to move LUX slide "before" disorder. If City OK at the end of the turn no need to ajust. (this is one of idea of settler foctory). You also miss 1250 BC turn in your turnlog and played 11 turns acctually. I think trade might be more efficient (but as a result it is OK if you'd take MapMaking from Joahn)
Regards, Ivan.

Wow these turn logs are getting complicated!
If Ankka hasn't got his computer problems fixed I'll play next, but I'm going out for a few hours so I'll check when I get home.
Since we're gearing up for war do we need to build archers or horsemen? If horsemen then we'd better get that horse resource inside our boundaries soon (if it's not already there, can't remember the map!)
This is the bit where things could go wrong for me... offensive wars are my weakest area.
@Ivan
If you could be ready with a war strategy (such as how many units, where to attack first etc) then we can review it and whoever gets to play those turns will be able to keep the big picture in mind!
Are we planning on crippling Russia or wiping them out completely?
Back in a few hours

Mab.

You play it, mab. I have been busy for the last two days and haven't been able to do anything for my comp.

Dear I.Larkin:
1) I've built a library in Berlin as you've suggested, that's why I "broke" the settler turns.
2) You're right that I should have used the mine from Hamburg for Berlin to get the settler in 3, so the granary is still in effect but you didn't said anything about using Hamburg's mine, and I didn't want to use that mine when I was playing for not dropping Hamburg's growth.
3) I offered Joan Lit, but she gave only WM and NOT MM, at least in my turns, so I didn't take the deal.
4) I've already established an embassy with France(turn 9).
5) I was thinking the same: somehow I should have finished at 1000BC and I've played 1 turn more :sad: I couldn't spot where, after looking my log. Sorry! I'll play 9 turns next time.
6) Hamburg is a border city; are you sure that we take the spearman from there? The first city that England attacked in the previous war, was Hamburg. Warriors haven't good defence and we are a few turns away from connecting the iron.
7) Everyone has his way of view for the game. Don't you think it is better if we make clear what we want to make and in what order?
You had a plan for settling the surrounding area in your dot map(I'm not so good in mm, but I was better second time I played thanks to your suggestions, don't you think?). We're quiting from that plan for a few turns to built temples and libraries and then settling again or are we quiting completely and prepare for war?
If we're going to prepare for war(after temples and libraries) it is better, IMHO, to wait until they have cities right in our borders, so we grab those cities asap. If we declare while there is a big distance between us and them, we're not going to achieve anything.
I'm a bit confused about the previous :confused: Can you be more specific? It is better to decide what we want from each player's turn. We should all post our ideas and general plan, so the others can understand what we're thinking and how are we thinking. And while one plays his turn, anything can happen, so he must make decision's asap.
mabellino and Ankka should also post their ideas and plans, so we all know what they're thinking.
8) I definetly accept criticism.

EDIT: Sorry for missing 1250BC turn from my log, but the save was from 1250BC(I had a look). I always assume that the save that we get is from the last turn from the previous player(after he has played his last turn, saves and posts). When I started playing, I thought that it was a half turn.
I'll play 9 turns next time.

Dear I.Larkin:
1) I've built a library in Berlin as you've suggested, that's why I "broke" the settler turns.
2) You're right that I should have used the mine from Hamburg for Berlin to get the settler in 3, so the granary is still in effect but you didn't said anything about using Hamburg's mine, and I didn't want to use that mine when I was playing for not dropping Hamburg's growth.
3) I offered Joan Lit, but she gave only WM and NOT MM, at least in my turns, so I didn't take the deal.
4) I've already established an embassy with France(turn 9).
5) I was thinking the same: somehow I should have finished at 1000BC and I've played 1 turn more :sad: I couldn't spot where, after looking my log. Sorry! I'll play 9 turns next time.
6) Hamburg is a border city; are you sure that we take the spearman from there? The first city that England attacked in the previous war, was Hamburg. Warriors haven't good defence and we are a few turns away from connecting the iron.
7) Everyone has his way of view for the game. Don't you think it is better if we make clear what we want to make and in what order?
You had a plan for settling the surrounding area in your dot map(I'm not so good in mm, but I was better second time I played thanks to your suggestions, don't you think?). We're quiting from that plan for a few turns to built temples and libraries and then settling again or are we quiting completely and prepare for war?
If we're going to prepare for war(after temples and libraries) it is better, IMHO, to wait until they have cities right in our borders, so we grab those cities asap. If we declare while there is a big distance between us and them, we're not going to achieve anything.
I'm a bit confused about the previous :confused: Can you be more specific? It is better to decide what we want from each player's turn. We should all post our ideas and general plan, so the others can understand what we're thinking and how are we thinking. And while one plays his turn, anything can happen, so he must make decision's asap.
mabellino and Ankka should also post their ideas and plans, so we all know what they're thinking.
8) I definetly accept criticism.

EDIT: Sorry for missing 1250BC turn from my log, but the save was from 1250BC(I had a look). I always assume that the save that we get is from the last turn from the previous player(after he has played his last turn, saves and posts). When I started playing, I thought that it was a half turn.
I'll play 9 turns next time.
1) It is OK, we do not need Settler Factory anymore. [Too late].
2) I wrote about Hamburg's grassland 20 May, post #113.
3) You may offer Lit+WM, say, but fortunately we still can go for this deal. Hope Mabell will do it.
4)Sorry, miss it. To late to get money back. How long Pyramids due?
5) It is 1200 BC
6) OK, may be warrior instead Spear, but it is not for long. Please, do'n forget to slide Lux to 0% when Lux not necessary.
7) Game is dymamical issue, and I put my "dot map" for discussion rather then "direction". Now time changes and plan changes. Moreover with WM you have we should revise our plans. I think we will go to Conquest, it is faster. We also shuld use time when Russian and French army "weak". It will not be forever.
I think after settler we will NOT build Temple as I suggested previously.
7a)Sure, at the end of the game we will understand each other better. I think we already communicate well, but I whant some ideas from Mabell. Or, at least to know what she will do. Also, Annka as most experience player in our team can give some recomendation even if she can't play. I will post my Ideas - general plan next.

Wow these turn logs are getting complicated!
If Ankka hasn't got his computer problems fixed I'll play next, but I'm going out for a few hours so I'll check when I get home.
Since we're gearing up for war do we need to build archers or horsemen? If horsemen then we'd better get that horse resource inside our boundaries soon (if it's not already there, can't remember the map!)
This is the bit where things could go wrong for me... offensive wars are my weakest area.
@Ivan
If you could be ready with a war strategy (such as how many units, where to attack first etc) then we can review it and whoever gets to play those turns will be able to keep the big picture in mind!
Are we planning on crippling Russia or wiping them out completely?
Back in a few hours

Mab.
We are not going to war right now, but have to start preparation. We will attack with swordmans, so we need money to upgrade and connect Iron. (no horses-archers) Leipzig worker can make road where he is and go to help road Iron.
Did you understand my ideas of micromannaging Berlin? Settler in 3 but grow in 3 as well).
Then do not build temple, as I suggested, just Spear, Spear, warrior...
Also, please micromanage to get 1 Sp in 3, 2 Sp in 2... (Or play 9 turns if unclear...) Please have 2 MP in Berlin. I think we leave Russia with 1-2 City (capture 3 and demand 1-2 for peace treaty). According to your screenshort Moscow have 1 Spear (and I think it is the same while it builds Oracle) so 2 Swords+archer+spear is enough for Moscow. Not sure about Kiev, but I think 3 Swords+Spear also OK. Then the rest will capture St. Peterburg. Wery simple. We have 5 warriors already, (better to have one more veteran) to upgrade, 1 archer and spears. We may whant bit more Spears to defend our land. However Libraries important for reseach and culture, so we need them first.
About Temple in Berlin.
Temple is vest of shiels, simply. Look, it produce 1 happy face, but costs 1 gpt. Lux do the same, but do not need shields. After Iron workers connect Incese abd Berlin will be OK at 10% Lux.
Research Phylo in 2, but use 60%-70% for Math, things depend how much we will get for Phylo. (Russian WM ?) and trade WM? Don't know.
Don't forget Lux 0% and trade MMaking from Joahn.
Regars, Ivan.
I will write long term plan next.

So long term plan is
550 BC war with Russians
350 BC Peace with Russians
310 BC war with French (preferably with Alliance with English)
110 BC Peace with French (if not eleminated)
90 BC Short war with English
10 AD Peace with English
30 AD War with Russians to eliminate.

Got it!
I've had a look at the save and jotted down some ideas both for short term and long term.

Short Term Plans
1. Build libraries where possible
2. Settle 2/3 more cities before getting ready for a war. We need at least a spearman if not spear+walls in each so we can free up our warriors for the offensive.
3. Get the iron hooked up asap, we currently have a slave worker on the iron, I forget how many base worker turns it takes a slave to road a mountain but I know it's a lot! We need 1 or 2 of our workers there to help.
4. As Ivan said, irrigate the ivory to get a food bonus.
5. Attempt to trade Lit to Joan for whatever we can get but pref. MM.
6. Aim for Mathematics next, but have a +ve gpt income to get ready for upgrade costs.
7. Get all warriors to a barracks city ready for upgrades

Longer Term Plans
1.Cripple/ destroy Russians then go for French using newly captured russian cities as a base.
2. Settle several more cities including 1 coastal one for trading via harbour and some naval exploration.
3. Expand in NE direction and claim the peninsula, possible FP location as it's relatively far from Berlin and is fertile land. That desert looks like oil/saltpeter!
4. Consolidate and build military and go after England. Or at least build military until we have a strong/average military compared to them.
5. Get some boats exploring the coast to make new contacts. Send horsemen out scouting for the other civs.

I've marked some potential city sites and targets on the attached picture. Pleased to see I.Larkin and I agree on the site for our second city, means we're on the same wavelength about one thing at least! ;)

All in all we're doing well and it seems you guys will soon be able to teach me about a conquest victory (or at least the prep needed to achieve it!)
I'll play my turns tommorow so you all have chance to read this post.

@Ankka
You've been a bit quiet as regards strategy... how do you think things are going? I hope you manage to get your pc fixed soon, it's a lot harder to follow the game without being able to zoom into cities and explore with your mouse! Good Luck.

PS. I'll play 9 turns this time to get us back on track. I don't mind, especially if it means I.Larkin/ Ankka get to do the fighting with me cheering from the sidelines!

I.Larkin, Qonquest it is then, if you want. Faster to finish the game, right?

It is good that you posted your general plan so me and mabellino can get the idea.
When we're going to war, it's better to declare first, don't you think? Otherwise, we'll mess our reputation and we'll have problems with English - French for trading/gpt.

I agree with your suggestion for attacking Russia first: they're weak right now

If you agree, at some point we must secure a horse resource for future knights. The nearest, is south of Frankfurt, if I remember correctly.

Off topic: you said "she" for Ankka. Is she a female then? If so, I apologize to her for having said "him".

Dear mabellino, DO NOT play 9 turns, please. That was my mistake, so I'm going to play 9 turns next time. I don't want to you to play a turn less and miss the turn you have right to play.

Your plan sounds good to me. We're going for war shortly and then settle more land while we prepare for the French, right?

I'd also like to see what Ankka has to say about the game. and post her plan/strategy.

I.Larkin, how do you find mabellino's plan? Have you more suggestions to make? Is this going to be our plan?

I think except from the general plan, we should decide for each player's turn, what he'll do, before he play.