SGOTM2 Game Thread

Welcome to your game thread for SGOTM2-Germany

Here is the start position.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM2-start-position.jpg

Each team has their own save file. Please download and play from the correct save. If you use the wrong save the server will not accept your submission. Also, please make sure that the software version is correct. PM me immediately if it is not.

You can download your save file >>HERE<<. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm_submission_list.php)

The Roster
Denyd
grahamiam
Leibnitz
RowAndLive
Sir Bugsy

:wavey: checking in. i will be away saturday, back on sunday.

i opened the save this morning but did not move any units. my monitor is very clear and i can usually see some stff under the immediate fog. to my eyes, to the se,e, there appears to be a game or fur. 2t nw, on the plain, there appears to be something but i can't tell what. imho, scout with the worker. it appears the starting spot is nice but we may want to move se to veify the game if there's nothing to the nw. if a food bonus is nw, then settle on the spot. :)

Hi team,

I also check in.

I have opened the save (without moving any units) and I agree to grahamiam. To the E-SE is definately game. Two tiles NW could be wheat. We can see coast to the NW. Maybe fresh water. This would mean a 4 turn settler factory.

So a possible starting sequence could look like this: Move worker east and settle on spot. Mine - road. Build two warriors. Cultural expansion. Road to the potential wheat, irrigate, if theres fresh water. Granary prebuild, maybe after building a third warrior. Then the worker could chop the forest at the game tile.

Edit: I don't know if we should go for Pottery at max or if we should gamble and hope to get Pottery from a trade soon.

yep, leibniz, definitely a good sequence. use the game chop to help quicken the granery build. however, if wheats to the north and that's the coastline, we'll have to waste a couple of turns irrigating the BG to the NW, then mining back over it after the wheat is roaded/irrigated.

do we have culturally linked starts? if so, we should expect england close by and they will have pottery. I recommend that the 1st player check to verify they are even in the game. if not, then 100% pottery imho.

Do we want to play the variant? Sounds interesting.

And what strategy do we use for this? My understanding is that we are not allowed to build UN but we can capture it.

For a good score we probably want to expand to the domination limit. We have to make sure that we eliminate all civs we are at war with.

Using E-Spionage to see which Civ will complete UN and then using Panzers to capture?

Gifting techs to the AI may also be important. First for a better AI attitude and second to have a high tech pace in this game.

if i read the intro page right, there are 3 continents available. therefore, imho, best bet is to expand like mad, and warring with our neighbors with the intent to take our continent before or just after the AA. we should try to wipe them out so they can't vote against us.
also, we will need suicide galleys to find the other continents early so we can get to some useful tech trades.
once these 2 goals are accomplished, we can begin thinking about how to get the UN vote our way.
early wonders to consider: Colossus (we start with BW) and GLight. Glib probably be useless. Pyramids always nice but not necessary. ditto oracle.

germany starting techs: warrior code and bronze working

Checking in and I got it - I probably won't be able to play until tomorrow (Sunday) night - I'll play 20 (normal for a start)

I'll read over the thread before starting.

I think the variant would be fun. I vote go for it.

If we can get a nearby coastal city, the Colossus would be good to have.

I'd move the worker east. If there is nothing , then settle in place.

Checking in. Just let me know who I'm following, or if I'm starting - doesn't matter.

My vote is to play the variant.

Do we use the roster posted by mad-bax or the roster as in sgotm1?

Just for grims, let's go with the roster as posted by mad-bax. I think it will be a nice change.

Works for me. I'm OK with the variant, or a variant variant......

So far the vote is going:

Denyd:
G-man:
Leibniz: For variant
R & L: For variant
Bugs: For variant

well, the majority has it :) now lets get this thing rolling denyd!

Turn Log 1

Turn 0 – 4000 BC - Reset to personal preferences – Opponents are Russia, France, England, Japan, India & China, so all first level techs are in play – Ann (worker) NW to BG finds wheat, we are on a river and we get 2 BG’s to start and will get the wheat on first expansion, so I found Berlin on opening spot, I start a warrior. Research begins on Iron Working at a 40 turn pace (gamble on getting pottery in trade)

Turn 1 – 3950 BC – Ann starts mine

Turn 2 – 3900 BC – ZZZZ

Turn 3 – 3850 BC – ZZZZ

Turn 4 – 3800 BC – ZZZZ

Turn 5 – 3800 BC – Berlin builds warrior starts another

Turn 6 – 3750 BC – Thor (warrior) S

Turn 7 – 3700 BC – Thor S spots a pair of spices – Ann completes mine

Turn 8 – 3650 BC – Ann starts road – Thor S

Turn 9 – 3600 BC – Thor S – Berlin builds warrior starts barracks

Turn 10 – 3550 BC – Thor S – Odin (warrior) E – Berlin culture expansion, grows to size 2 – Ann completes road

Turn 11 – 3500 BC – Odin E – Ann moves to wheat – Thor S

Turn 12 – 3450 BC – Thor S spots brown border – Odin SE – Ann starts irrigation of wheat

Turn 13 – 3400 BC – Russia (brown), is cautious, Moscow only, 10g, up Pottery & Ceremonial Burial and down Warrior Code – no deals seem fair (Pottery for WC + 45g + 1gpt or WC for 10g) – Thor W spots ivory in Russian lands – Odin E

Turn 14 – 3350 BC – Thor W – Odin E spots incense (lots of local luxuries so far) – so as not to waste any shields – trade Warrior Code + 1gpt + 42g to Russia for Pottery – Catherine now polite – switch Berlin to granary

Turn 15 – 3300 BC – Odin SE – Thor SW – Ann finishes irrigation

Turn 16 – 3250 BC – Thor W finds another Ivory – MM Berlin to speed growth – Ann starts road – Odin E

Turn 17 – 3200 BC – Odin NE spots what might be eastern shore – Thor SW

Turn 18 – 3150 BC – Thor SW meets Russian Warrior – Odin N – Ann finished road

Turn 19 – 3100 BC – Thor W – Ann moves to BG E of Berlin – Odin NE to confirm eastern shore – Berlin population grows to 3

Turn 20 – 3050 BC – Thor W spots furs (that’s 4 local luxuries) – Slider to 8-1-1 to prevent rioting – Ann starts road – Odin SE – Orange border shows up next to Thor

Turn 21 – 3000 BC – Thor NW spots York – England (orange) – Elizabeth is polite, has London & York, is up Masonry, Alphabet & Ceremonial Burial, has 1g – Catherine has connected an Ivory, still with 1 city, 59g

Not much to talk about as a recap – the granary will be done in 2 turns, there are a pair of warriors out scouting the world – Russia is to the south and England to the west of a pretty good sized island – still 22 turns to go for Iron Working – Berlin is size 3 and will grow again in 6 – I checked out the situation with England and she’s not interested in any trades at the moment – I think she’s pretty much painted a big target on her chest at this point (ahead in tech & cities) – I played to 3000 BC as that seemed to be the normal stopping point last game for the opening player.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugsy_SG002_BC3000.jpg

Denyd: you need to upload your save to the GOTM server. To do this just hit the link to "upload to server" in my sig. You can get the scores and graphs there too.

It is not really necessary to provide a link to the save in the game thread anymore. All you have to do is download your save from the "downloads and scores" link in my sig. :)

Anyway... you or one of your team needs to upload the save so that the score is registered. I'm on my way to work and done' have time.

nice opening! 2T from a granery, how nice :) ok, any settler locations prefered? to the south and east are lux. the west and north are unknown.

i uploaded denyd's save to the server.

Looks good Denyd :)

Seems that we have a solid mass of jungle to the S and SE and a lot of work to do. So we should buy a worker from the AI whenever one is available.

Probably we want our next two cities building units. Then I think somewhere near the lake could be a good place, since we don't want wasting too many worker turns with clearing jungle at the beginning.

Another good place seems to be in the E near the river.

Do we want to use RCP?

Thanks for posting the save for me Grahamiam.

I'd like to make sure we claim the spices to the south and the incense to the east, other than that, I'd like to have a little more map knowledge before selecting city sites. As for RCP, it would be nice to use, but let's see how the map lays out first.

These seem like cultural linked locations, so I'm guessing that France is still somewhere to be found on this island and the 3 Asian nations are on another island. That means the 3 UU's we'll be facing are the Musketeer, Man O' War & the Cossack (if we let them live that long).

We should finish the granary, then start pumping out settlers (maybe a warrior for MP duty first). I'm thinking with the wheat, game & 2 BG's in the radius, we should be able to get a 4-turn settler factory going.

I agree with Leibniz about the next two towns building units (after a cheap barracks build). We should probably be building warriors, in prep for a sword upgrade. I was tempted to go barracks, vet swords and try to kill off our closest neighbor, the problem with that tactic is what happens if it fails. At this point, it's probably better to play not to lose than to play to win. If we concentrate Berlin on settlers and the other cities on Vet Warriors, once Iron Working is in (about 20 turns), we should be able to connect a local iron source (lots of mountains nearby) and upgrade to swords. If it's early enough, we should be able to walk over Russia and England before they have a chance to become a problem. This will follow Grahamiam's idea of gaining complete control of our island and then playing nice until the UN is built.

This may be a bad idea, but I think we need to go south with our second city and grab that lux before Cathy does.

Maybe a third or fourth warrior, before too long. Workers are going to be a must with all those trees.

I also agree on spices the lux to the south first (plus on river). I'd put the second expansion to get the incense/river to the east. I haven't pulled in the save yet, so I've not seen a minimap. Where are we, relatively?

ok, thanks guys, i play & post tonight. i agree with the majority, go south then tentatively go for the incense to the east. 2nd city will definitely depend on what we find.

edit: i'll do the calc's for the starting position tonight in case i don't get all the necessary land worked so we know what tiles are needed to get the 4T factory running

first, the 2550BC save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugsy_SG002_2550BC.SAV)

Preflight check: Min. IW run 22T from completion; 2 spices south, 1 incense east, worker 2t from finishing road.

T1: 2950BC move warriors

IBT: Granery completed -> warrior

T2: 2900BC Worker moves to game.

T3: 2850BC worker chops (10T); warriors move

Warrior -> worker

T4: 2800BC new warrior moves out to scope surrounding area

T5: 2750BC Ivory is to our NW

Berlin worker -> warrior

T6: 2710BC Ivory is far to our SE as well. New worker moves to help the chop

T7: 2670BC Worker chops

Berlin warrior -> settler

T8: 2630BC warriors move

T9: 2590BC warriors move. There’s a lot of desert to our north as well as the coastline.

T10: 2550BC MM citz off forrest and onto BG, MM off mined BG and onto river grass (settler in 3T, grow in 3T vs settler in 2T and growth in 4T) Chop on game finished. Workers irrigate.

Notes: workers will be done irrigating in 2T. I deliberately slowed down the settler build to time it’s finish with a growth to size 5. next player should build a warrior next to get growth up to 4, then go for settlers from here on out. Sorry, but the BG still needs to be mined.

Calc’s as follows:
At size 4: working the city center, 2 mined BG’s, 1 irrigated wheat plain, and 1 irrigated game grass, we will make +5fpt and +6spt. Computer will switch us to a forrest with growth so we’ll have 14s after 2T, then need to work a mined grass. Unfortunately, there isn’t one in easy reach, therefore, the factory may be stunted for a couple more cycles. We will need to mine at least one of the grasses to get this up and running. I wouldn’t bother with another chop atm. Save for later when we need to stress out a settler or build a barracks.

Trades for CB and Mas are available. Both AI’s are up CB, Alpha, and Mas.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/sgotm2-bugs-2550bc.jpg

Nice work Grahamiam :goodjob:

We should be able to grab quite a large chunk of dirt during the land grab portion of this game. We should probably go for the spices first, preferably on a river (to save needing an aqueduct). Then somewhere to the SE & E with cities 3 & 4 to blunt English expansion that direction. After that the incense & ivory (as well as some iron hopefully). We should probably use city #2 & #3 for military & city #4 for workers, as we've got a lot of land improvement to do.

After Iron Working, if we can get mathematics in trade, I think Construction or Currency at 40 might be the next research path. We are going to need a new government someday, any preferences?

Good build selections G-man. I agree completely with getting more workers.

This is just a starting point for discussion. This idea is a loose build. We may want a tighter build. Given the location of the rivers, I think it is important to build on them. I'd go for for yellow dot, then green then white. It looks like north of white dot, we'll be able to get a good coastal city on a river.

We need to see what is north of green dot.

Edit - Denyd & I are cross-posting :D

If math isn't available after IW, I'd research Math. The AI never go for math. The usually avoid currency until last. So I go math then currency. I don't know if we want to go min science or not. It seems that a lot of people have been having success with an advanced tech pace.

thanks guys. nice map :) i prefer tighter builds, but that's just my personal preference. imho, we ought to try for an RCP 4-5 for the initial ring. that will let us take advantage of the fresh water to the NW and the rivers to the south and east.

imho, 1st city should be S to block northward russian migration. good luck leibniz!

as for gov't, i always love republic. with the number of lux immediately available, we should do well. monarchy just slows me down, even when i'm warmongering :D

as for research, i agree with bugs, lets go for Math, though we should have enough cities (2 or 3) to avoid a min research run if we want.

Yes, I agree with Republic.

Yellow dot is at RCP 5. Green and White dots are at 6. That's a tough call. How does the team think we ought to settle?

Green and White dots are at 6. That's a tough call. How does the team think we ought to settle?
green can go SE, E(or SE again) between the ivory and the lake (dist=4), white can go SW 1 tile (dist=5, well 5.5 but the program rounds down) and I think it's still on a river. by moving green, we'll be able to settle another city on the other side of that river to the NW. white will still give us the incense after expansion.

just my opinions, though. i just thought i'd explain myself better. i'll go with whatever the team decides :)

For a closer build, I push the yellow dot 1N, and the green dot ESE to lakeside. They would both be at 4. There's no way to get white into a distance 4, so perhaps settling it at 6 isn't a bad idea. I'm wondering if green is a better third city, or if we should follow Denyd's advise. I prefer to grow toward the AI too, but I'd hate to lose 2 ivory to a foreign city. Even if it flipped to us, it likely wouldn't be placed right. Building early cities further away gets some production out of them before they become corrupt, and tends to give you the road infrastructure to get troops toward the enemy sooner, as well as minimal raoding needed to connect new cities off of the trunk line.

For government, I also prefer republic, but I'm willing to give monarchy a try if the group thinks it's important.

R & L - I like that idea. There also may be a spot to the SW at RCP 4 on a river. We'll just need to bust that fog to find out.

Nice work Grahamiam,

I agree on the science path: mathematics and/or currency at min, since the AI never goes for it. I also agree to build our second city in the south to block Russia.

We also need some more workers asap. Theres too many work to do. Maybe we can buy some from the AI.

Before playing I first have to think about the city placement ideas and your comments on it. Do we want RCP at 4 as suggested in the last post of R&L? I prefer the green and yellow dot as suggested by him.

And yes Republic should become our government.

I agree Leibniz. I like R & L's yellow and green dot suggestions much better than mine.

Nice work Grahamiam,
We also need some more workers asap. Theres too many work to do. Maybe we can buy some from the AI.

here's a suggestion that i've seen done ad-nausia in SG's (besides buying them which you'll need 110-120g to do): have the 1st build for the new cities be a worker if making 1 spt & 2fpt or a warrior, then worker if making 2spt & 2fpt. we should be able to get workers fairly quickly this way, without sacrificing settlers from Berlin.

After looking at the map (while waiting for the company servers to re-boot), I came up with my own little dot map using RCPRings - I settled on a 5/10 ring pattern, the black fog makes it a little difficult to complete the picture, but here's my take on a settlement plan:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugsy_PlanA.jpg

City 1 for the spices and to block Russia, it's also on a river, but will need some improvements to become a quality city.

City 2 is a path builder to city 3, 2 should have good shield potential (depending on what's under the fog) and 3 good growth & shields with the cow.

Cities 11/12/4/5 are set to block England & Russia from expansion in our direction.

Cities 9 & 14 would be our eastern ports

City 6 for ivory & cities 7/8 for the incense

City 13 is hoping for oil or saltpeter in the desert

I was prioritizing river locations, luxury claiming and AI blocking in this plan. We'll need to be flexible to be sure to claim any new resource (iron & horses), as we don't know where they are at the moment. We need to clear some more of the fog away as all four directions (NE,NW,SE,SW) have areas we might want to place settlements.


(I skipped city 10 :blush: )

Grahamiam@ I actually would prefer getting a worker factory setup and using our new cities for barracks and vet warriors (future swords).

We need to find out where the horses & iron are quite quickly. While we're still in the land grab phase we should try to get those resources locked up and not have to fight for them.

Grahamiam@ I actually would prefer getting a worker factory setup and using our new cities for barracks and vet warriors (future swords).

yes, worker factories are nice and we have plenty of wood to chop to quickly build graneries or barracks. curious to see what's under the black fog as we'll need some food bonus tiles to get a worker factory really cranking. i was just trying to give a suggestion other than turning off the settler factory and these were 1st builds only. after that, then i would let the city do what it's supposed to do :)

btw, nice map, how does it look if the first ring is @ distance 4?

Ring 4 works pretty good - what do you want for the second ring distance?

My only complaints on a 4 distance ring, is you can't squeeze in as many cities on the first ring as you can at 5 or even 6, though I normally wouldn't use a 6 unless on a large/huge map.

we could keep the 2nd distance at 10. it looked like there were a lot of nice spots you found and if things change, we have the space between the 1st and 2nd ring. distance 4 is ideal as it addresses a couple of preferred spots for this team :)

If we go with 4/10 rings getting the incense attached will take a colony or waiting for the 3rd cultural expansion.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugsy_PlanB.jpg

Looking at this plan leaves a lot of guess work until we get the fog cleared up. (of course it's the same with Plan A)

I again choose to prioritize rivers, luxuries & blocking the AI when I selected these sites. I reused a couple of city numbers to allow for layout flexabililty based on what's found under the fog. Of course this will all need adjustment once the fog is gone and iron & horses are located.

Ok, i will play tomorrow, not this night. I will send the first settler one tile NW of yellow dot in Bugsy's map, and the second to the lake NW of Berlin both at distance 4. Is this ok to all? Or should the second settler go W to block England?

I'd go with your first thoughts Leibniz. Those are good sites.

leibniz, sounds good, and i agree with bugs, go with your insticts. things change on the fly :) thanks for the rcp maps, denyd. i think it gives us all a good idea of where everything is located and how different layouts appear :goodjob:

T0: 2550BC: do not trade at the moment.

T1: Move warriors.

T2: Berlin Settler > Warrior (MM Berlin), Workers road, Settler S, adjust lux, set governor to emphasize production.

T3: Settler S, see wheat in the E, MM Berlin (governor has not assigned a forest tile at growing ???, so warrior has 2 t left).

T4: Settler S, mine BG.

T5: Warrior fortifies, Leipzig founded > Barracks, Berlin Warrior > Settler (MM)

T6: warrior moves

T7:Mine completed, MM Berlin, adjust lux, worker on forest

T8: Worker road

T9: MM Leipzig and Berlin, adjust lux

T10: 2150BC: Berlin Settler > Settler, adjusted lux.

Remark: Next player needs to decide where to move the settler at Turn 0. There's a barb two tiles W of Leipzig, Catherine has Wheel (Liz not), we have IW in two turns. Probably we can get tech parity and a bit gold.

R & L is up.

Yeah, that barb is looking for some gold.

So can we get a 4 turn settler factory going?

Yes we can get a 4 turn factory (5 - 7), we need to mine one more Grassland tile, after the road is completed, the workers can mine the tile adjacent, and if I count the shields correct, we have the factory then.

Yes we can get a 4 turn factory (5 - 7), we need to mine one more Grassland tile, after the road is completed, the workers can mine the tile adjacent, and if I count the shields correct, we have the factory then.
yep, leibniz is correct. we can mine the tile to the SE or W. the western tile will bring us some extra gpt while the SE tile will be closer to connecting the new town. we'll probably end up mining both (1 for each town) so it probably is best to go SE so we can get Leipzig connected.

I like the NW of the two sites suggested for city 2, although I'm still not quite sure why we don't march right out to #3 if it's that important, and even better #4. From the looks of Leibniz's map, that site should still be on the river, but I'll have to check once I pull down the file. I'm also not sure why Denyd put #1 right atop of the spices. I had been thinking NE of the present site.

Were there any production goals, or just settlers on home, and warriors (+ rax) & workers on the rest?

I think because Denyd marked it on the RCP chart.

berlin should focus as much as possible on settlers. things may be chippy till the grass is mined.
as for city placement... NW of Berlin between the ivory and lake is good (gives us lots of irrigating plains as well as mountains for later). the other city SW of Berlin along the river sounds good but will take a lot of choping to get up and running. imho, going for location #3 may be best after those 2 locations are secured.

The more I look at the proximity to York, the more I'm convinced that a settler march directly to three, and then backfilling 2, with both settling in a close time frame would serve us better than building 2 first. You can convince me otherwise, but I'd like it explained, other than a few turns of production and taxes.

do what you think is best. just bring along an escort :) you know my preferences and they have to do strictly with production and with getting cities up and running, producing warriors and workers asap. the city at location 3 will not be very productive initially but will slow down English expansion so it seems fine as well.

R & L - I trust your judgment. If you think you can make it work - go for it.

OK - the kids are finally back to being in their own rooms instead of camped out at the computer. So, got it, and will plan on posting tomorrow.

Never mind - got it!

2150 – 0
settler SW, Tiuw (warrior) S, punch lux to 10%

IBT:

2110 – 1
2 workers SE, Tiuw S, Baldur E, Thor W, Odin W, settler W

IBT: barb NW, IW > Masonry, Berlin riots, punch lux to 20%

2070 – 2
Ann & Bev mine, Tiuw W, settler SW, Baldur S, Odin SW, Thor W adjacent to English & barb warrior
We have 119g, IW
England 1g, Masonry, alpha, CB
Russia 97g, Masonry, alpha, CB, wheel
Trade IW to Russia for CB, wheel, 18g; to England for Masonry, Alphabet, 1g
England now has 4 cities, 0g, tech parity
Russia now has 3 cities, 79g, up Myst (They want 138g +2gpt, nada)

IBT: English warrior kills barb, 3 English warriors in area.

2030 – 3
Tiuw W, settler W, Baldur W, Odin W sees horse, Thor N
Research to Math in 18 (rsch to 80%)
(Berlin set to grow in 2, build settler in 2, workers to finish mine in 2)

IBT: barb E past Tiuw

1990 – 4
Tiuw E, settler W, Baldur W, Odin W, Thor N

IBT: Berlin: settler > settler, 5>6>4

1950 – 5
Ann & Bev road mine, Tiuw S (barb forted), settler SW, Thor E, Baldur S, Odin N, settler 2 NWW

IBT: Tiuw kills barb

1910 - 6
settler SW, settler 1 SW (Rus war 2NW), Thor E, Baldur SE, Odin N sees incense SE of Russia, Tiuw E

IBT: Rus war S adjacent

1870 – 7
settler 1 W, Thor E, settler 2 S, Ann & Bev SW, Tiuw SE, Baldur S sees more horses, Odin N sees 2 gold

IBT: Rus war SE

1830 – 8
settler 1 to city site, Thor NW, settler 2 to city site, Ann & Bev road (in 5), Baldur S, Odin N (adjacent to 2 each incense & gold), Tiuw rests

IBT:

1790 – 9
Baldur S, Odin E, Tiuw W,
Oppeln (#2) founded > warrior, Konigsburg (#3) founded > warrior, Thor SE to garrison

IBT: Berlin: settler > settler, 5>6>4

1750 – 10
settler 3 NW, Baldur E, Odin W, Thor forts, Tiuw S
English: 4 cities, 55g, up writing & myst (67g), comm with French (sell for 53g)
Russia: 3 cities, 0g, up writing & myst (69g), comm. With French (sell for 54g)

I’m leaving it up to the next player to trade if desired, and to change the build in the new cities. The 4-turn pump is working well. :thumbsup:

The new map.

nice set RowAndLive :goodjob: 2 towns plus the settler pump up and running. very nice indeed :)

good luck bugs!

I've got it. Expect dispatches with 24 hours.

Nice turns R&L,

maybe we should build a granary in Königsberg. The cow there will give us a few more workers.

I have never heard about Oppeln ;)

Pre-flight 1750 BC – Diplo: we could buy Myst, but writing is out of the question.

Science slider can come back to 10%.

We don’t have nearly enough explorers. We need some workers quite badly also.

1. 1725 BC - :sleep:

2. 1700 BC – Found Frankfurt. Start warrior. We have some barbs SE of Leipzig. One is heading our way. MM settler factory. Lux up 10%

Buy contact with Joan for 63G from Liz. Joan is down IW and up writing. Purchase writing for IW & 30G. None of the three ladies are on the third tier.

IBT – Leipzig: Barracks=> warrior
Cathy starts the Oracle.

3. 1675 BC – Get between the barb and Leipzig.

Lux to 10%.

IBT – Kill a barb.
Berlin: settler=>settler
Oppeln: warrior=> worker

4. 1650 BC – Lux to 0%

Settler heads to the east. Start exploring north with the new dude. Named Elmer.

5. 1625 BC – Baldur has a coastline to the far east.

Found Munich to the east.

Science down 10%.

Joannie now has Myst.

6. 1600 BC – Tiuw kills the barb camp and adds 25G to our treasury.

Odin spots the French frontier.

MM the settler factory. Lux to 10%.

IBT – We get some cool steps for the cave. I bet the ladies will dig it.

7. 1575 BC – Science down 10%. A barb approaches Munich. Move MP out of Berlin. Lux up 10%.

IBT – Math comes in. Currency next. Science set at 80%, due in 23 turns.
Berlin: settler=> settler

8. 1550 BC – Move settler south towards Russia. He’ll be escorted.

Move to hook up the ivory.

Trade time: Sell Math to Liz for Myst & 118G.
Sell math to Cathy for a worker & 11G. Joannie is broke.

Lux down to 10%. Science up to 90%.

IBT – Oppeln: Worker=> warrior
Konigsberg: warrior=>worker

9. 1525 BC – New warrior, dubbed Marvin heads west.

IBT – Elmer is redlined by a barb.

10. 1500 BC – Move Elmer east to get in front of the barb.

After Action Report: The settler is headed towards the yellow dot, but that is subject to the team’s decision. I think we need to plant a city on one of the white dots so we can build a galley when the time comes. Gonna need an escort for certain.

Denyd – Up
G-man – On deck
Leibniz
R & L
Bugs – Just finished

Save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Bugsy_SG002_BC1500_01.SAV

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM2_Bugs_1500_BC.jpg

looks good bugs :)
do we have horses in our borders? maybe we should pinch the ones down by Minsk if we don't.
What about iron? maybe we should secure that source to the north if we don't have one local?

I just got back from weekend trip, nice turns Bugs - I won't be able to play tonight, but I'll check out the situation tomorrow and play tomorrow night.

I got it

I don't recall horses, but we do have iron. I think with swords we won't have to worry about horses for a while.

I have never heard about Oppeln ;)

When Silesia was still part of Germany, Oppeln was the name of the city now called Opole, Poland. My father's family is from there, as well as nearby (was) Kreuzberg.

@Bugs - Nice set of turns! Just a comment that if we are doing RCP, the red dot is @5 instead of @4, and should move either SW or SE. Unless the red dot was for something else, that I didn't catch the reference to.

do we have horses in our borders? maybe we should pinch the ones down by Minsk if we don't.

Unless Cathy is first on the list, maybe we should pinch them anyway, just to nip future problems with Cossacks. We can found at 10.5 immediately N of the 'Minsk' horses.

i just realized that the yellow dot is at distance 10 as well as Konigsberg. When I was making my comments to denyd about the 4-10 RCP placement, i was just doing it to get an idea where things line up. i did not intend that we follow that strict formula (though i agree with R&L in regards to the red dot). For the 2nd core, maybe we should use distance 8 or 9 since our galley town will probably be distance 9 anyways and the next city to the far NW will want to be along that river at about distance 8.

The red dot is probably wrong. That was late on Saturday night, so my eyes may have been a bit bleary.

I think we need to set some priorities as a team and this is probably a good time to discuss. Do we need land (settling), exploration, tile improvements, or defense?

Initially I was thinking that settling should be our number one priority, but given the number of barbs running around (raging?) we probably need some defense. Given all the jungle, we need workers. We need to meet more civs. So how should we set out priorities? Please rank:

Land grab
Defense
Exploration
workers

I have some ideas, but I will refrain from commenting.

imho, we need to continue expansion. expansion will offer us the greatest flexibility in the future. we ought to consider dictating roles for some specialist cities, though.
for instance:
Berlin -> settlers only
Oppeln -> warriors only (so we need a barracks there ASAP)
Frankfurt -> warriors also (swap to barracks after 1 is finished in Oppeln)
City NW of Frankfurt near the FP's-> workers (has flood plains and plains so, with a granery + irrigation, should be able to spit out workers fairly quick)

Other cities can build temples atm for culture with warriors and settlers thrown in the mix. Since we don't have horses, we may want to consider building an archer or 2 to deal with the barbarians.

edited for stupidity

I agree with Grahamiam about expansion

Berlin (Paris???) should continue as the settler builder with the rest of the core building barracks/warriors (with a temple for culture squeezed in)

I did a dot map for discussion for my choices for the next 6 cities. We need to get an explorer to the north to find out how much land is left up there.

My suggestions for a city founding order would be :
1. Orange S of Leipzig
2. Green NE of Minsk
3. Red NW of Kiev
4. Yellow E of Munich (to claim incense)
5. Blue NE of Berlin after temple could be worker factory
6. Pink N of Berlin as our galley city

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugsy_Plan2A.jpg

As for military priorities, at this point veteran warriors only (an archer or 2 for barb hunting would be ok)

Berlin (Paris???)
:lol: 2SG's and the gotm as France have left me in a french twist :lol:

I really think we need to take a look NW of Frankfurt. That land looks too food positive to pass up atm. also, is 10RCP for the 2nd core the best choice atm? i don't mind sacrificing our 1 town out there at dist. 10 if it makes more sense to put the 2nd ring at 8 or 9. it should be ok if beyond the 2nd core once courts are available.

Actually, since the coastal river delta site is at either 8 or 9, I would go with one of those.

I have a settler and a warrior headed generally towards green dot, so that may be one rather than two.

If our warrior NW of Franfurt is killed on the interturn, defense may become very important.

I would say our priorities should be:

1. settlers out of Berlin
2. warriors for exploration
3. warriors/archers for defense
4. workers

The defense can run a zone defense. They don't need to be tied to a city. In that case archers would work out much better for nailing barbs.

Actually, since the coastal river delta site is at either 8 or 9, I would go with one of those.


so is the incense ;)


If our warrior NW of Franfurt is killed on the interturn, defense may become very important.

well, nothing like a little early excitement :) at worst, we'll lose some money or a warrior build if it attacks Frankfurt so no biggie as long as that worker stays safe. And I like the zone defense idea. keep a couple warriors in Berlin that can shoot out in various directions when needed. we can do this till we have enough units to go hunting ourselves. :)

I would say our priorities should be:

1. settlers out of Berlin
2. warriors for exploration
3. warriors/archers for defense
4. workers


I like these priorities as well, although I'm wondering if the land phase will end before exploration really takes off, and we'll need to convert to conquest. Grab land first, with escorts.

I also don't mind dropping the second ring in. That would allow pink to drop 1 S, and grab the iron with the first expansion. Also, at the delta, is the forest @8 on the S bank also coastal through the tile to its E? While I agree with Denyd on his city choices, orange and red would need to be culture sinks, just to keep from flipping. Unless they were done quickly, flipping is likely, as neither the Russians nor English goes short on culture.

we can do this till we have enough units to go hunting ourselves. :)

I'd like to see us take out Russia sooner rather than later. They always seem to go down so much easier that way...

We will want to get rid of the Russians certainly before Cossacks arrive.

G-man might be right about orange & red being culture sinks. We might want to hold off there and capture a city in those locations.

We will want to get rid of the Russians certainly before Cossacks arrive.

G-man might be right about orange & red being culture sinks. We might want to hold off there and capture a city in those locations.
that's r&l's quote, not mine ;) , though i think if we pull orange and red back to distance 8, they will make good, defensible cities from which we can launch into russia.

i'm not so much worried about russian cossacks as i am about thier ability to research. however, this is still monarch level so we shouldn't have too much trouble. remember, we plan on taking our continent by the end of the aa or early ma so no cossack, no worries :) however, no horses, big worries :( therefore, i agree with R&L that russia gets the first "kick me" sign taped to thier back so we can get those horses :D

In that case, priorities for tonight:

1. Settle green
2. Settler for yellow w/escort
3. Explore to the north & NW
4. Contact with France
5. Settler for blue
6. Barracks for military towns & temples for the rest
7. Look for a good worker factory location
8. Stay out of wars
9. Reach tech parity without mortgaging the future

Anything else?

I like the RCP 8 idea. I'm pretty sure that forest time on the river is coastal also. I would make our settle priorities
green - orange - red - coastal site(with galley pre-build)

Edit (cross-posted w/ Denyd) - Denyd's priority list looks good, although we already have contact with France.

I must have read R&L & your log 3 times and I still missed your note about buying contact. :blush:

I'll take a look at the level 8 ring and see how it fits.

It happened on my turn two in 1700 BC.

Edit - I think the key for deciding whether to go for RCP 8 or 9 would be whether or not you can get a coastal city with 8. If no coastal city, then RCP 9 it is.

FIRST THE SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugsy_SG002_BC1250.SAV)

Turn Log 2

Turn 0 – 1500 BC - Reset to personal preferences – Everything looks great, very nice hand-off Bugsy

IBT: Joan asks Warrior to leave, sure no problem – NW Warrior survives Barbarian Warrior (BW) attack – Leipzig Warrior->Warrior – Frankfurt Warrior->Barracks

Turn 1 – 1475 BC – Achilles (New Warrior in Frankfurt) N – Hector (wounded warrior) E – Hercules (new Vet Warrior in Leipzig) sent to Berlin – Settler sent to city spot – Tiuw sent to city spot – Marvin NW – Odin S = Baldur N spots Barbarian Galley (BG) [somebody has map making] – Trade check shows no changes, so map making must belong to someone we haven’t met yet

IBT: Joan ejects Odin – Russian scout runs from BW – Berlin settler->settler

Turn 2 – 1450 BC – Baldur N – Bev finishes connecting Ivory and moves to irrigate for Frankfurt – Achilles NW – Hector to Frankfurt to heal – Marvin N finds some coastline – Odin’s ejection was towards home (drat) now going NW – Settler sent to Munich – Hercules sent to Munich – Heimdel sent to Berlin – With MP in Berlin and population reduced due to settler build – slider to 0-10-0 currency in 17, treasury 192g –2gpt – Trade check: Russia now has Horseback Riding & Map Making – France & England both with Horseback Riding – Buy Horseback Riding from France for 70g

IBT: Odin watches 2 French Warriors red-line killing BW – 2 more BW show up + 1 chasing a Russian Scout – Munich Warrior-Barracks

Turn 3 – 1425 BC – Worf (Warrior) MP in Munich – Hector & Settler leave for Incense city – Heimdel MP in Berlin – Ann & Cathy start mine for Oppelin – Hector MP in Frankfurt – Achilles NW spots iron in the mountains – Marvin N finds a coastline -Baldur N finds a Barbarian Village (BV) – Odin N – Trade Check finds Russia up Map Making, unchanged

IBT: Lots of BW moving around – Oppelin Warrior->Barracks

Turn 4 – 1400 BC – Irwin (Warrior) MP in Oppelin – Achilles NW – Marvin W – Hercules & Settler moving SE – Tiuw reaches spot – Odin W spots Canterbury (has furs) – Baldur NW to BV – England has a worker for sales, but since I can’t see another English Worker & I’m not sure about the rules for this I pass (price 106g, we have 118), nothing else changed

IBT: Those French attacks last IBT were against England (they’re at war!!) – Odin watches 2 English Warriors die to a French Archer – Barbarian Horseman (BH) at near Munich

Turn 5 – 1375 BC – Hercules & Settler to Incense (BH can reach them next turn) – Achilles N finds some woods & grasslands – Marvin SE spots more coastline – Odin NW – Tiuw waits for settler – Baldur (3/3) kills BW and disperses BV (+25) – England now has Map Making – Trade WM + 122g to England for Map Making – Trade Map Making to France for 73g + WM – Joan has 5 cities, furs & ivory hooked up – iron near by but not attached, 2 of the cities will never be very good (no food), she’s got some land to the W but hasn’t expanded that way yet, not a threat – Joan’s map show’s a lot of England, showing 4 of 5 cities, furs, horses & iron nearby, but not connected, has at least 1 city to the west. Unless there’s more land to the west, England is boxed in by France to the south, Russia to the East and jungle to the north (with us NE) – French map also shows lots of land N of Frankfurt, with horses and a BV

IBT: England demands TM + 22g and since I don’t feel like war yet, I give them to her. – Hercules (4/4) defends against a BH - Berlin settler->settler

Turn 6 – 1350 BC – Heimdal & New Settler leave for blue dot – Bev completes irrigation and moves to irrigate ivory – Achilles N finds a grassland wheat – Marvin S – Hercules & Settler move next to city spot – Settler founds Heidelberg starts temple (easily changeable) – All of Baldur’s fog has been lifted so he’s heading home – Odin will try to skirt France to check out what’s to the SW – Tiuw MP in Heidelberg – Trade TM + 5g to England for TM – England has 3 cities W of London (1 unconnected iron & incense)

IBT: Odin watches French Archer die to English Warrior – BH chasing Hercules & Settler – BW next to Munich

Turn 7 – 1325 BC – Hercules & Settler reach city spot – Heimdel & Settler next to city spot – Ann & Cathy finish mine move to improve for Oppelin – Achilles N – Marvin SE – Odin SE – Baldur NE spots BW on mountain – Trade check – WM to Russia for WM + 12g – Russian WM fills in rest of French area and a lot of what might become western England (lots of jungle) – Russia can only expand SW (but there’s lots of room to go that way) – Trade TM to France for 3g – Trade WM to England for WM + 15g and a little more western English jungle appears

IBT: A English Warrior dies to French Archer – 4 BW & 1 BH heading for undefended Berlin

Turn 8 – 1300 BC – Switch Oppelin to Warrior from barracks – Irwin sent from Oppelin to Berlin – Achilles climbs mountain (NW) and finds BW – Marvin SW – Odin heading home – Settler founds Nuremberg starts temple (easily changeable) – Hercules MP in Nuremberg – Settler & Heimdel reach city site – Ann & Cathy start road – Baldur (2/3) kills BW – WM to Russia for WM + 3g – to France for 25g + WM – to England for TM + 3g

IBT: Lots of BW & BH romping around – Forbidden Palace message – Oppelin warrior->barracks – Konigsberg worker->temple (changeable)

Turn 9 – 1275 BC – Debbie (worker) moves to cow – Arnold (warrior) moves to cover workers – Settler founds Cologne starts temple – Achilles fortifies on mountain – Marvin W – Odin N – Baldur NW – Heimdal MP in Cologne – WM nets 1g + 3 WM

IBT: xxx (3/3) defeats attacking BW – Palace Expansion # 2 and we get a front lawn for our cave (with a porch)

Turn 10 – 1250 BC – Arnold to Oppenin and MP – Ann & Cathy complete road and move N – Bev completes irrigation and moves to hook up with Ann & Cathy – Debbie starts road on cow - Marvin E – Odin N – Baldur NE heading to Nuremberg – Irwin reaches Berlin – There are 4 BW on our lands & 1 BW & 2 BH around our units

Status report: A settler, barracks & Vet Warrior will all complete next turn – we are even on tech – currency due in 6, treasury 113g –2gpt – 2 luxuries connected – Score 174 (tied last place – England 202 1st ) - There is a lot of land to the north. Those temple builds are just because I had to pick something – nothing would have finished before my set was up.

And for those who like pretty pictures (with lots of white circles)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugsy_SG002_BC1250.jpg

ok, looks good. :) looks like everything is at rcp10, however, i don't think we can hold strictly to that with the way the map looks. imho, the 1st core is the most important in RCP anyways. the 2nd core is nice but not always practical. i think next city priorities would be 1 city SW of Leipiz and NE of Kiev, then another to NE of Berlin. However, due to barb activity to the NE, I may be forced to settle along the river to the NW till we get some archers online. please let me know if this sounds ok.

i think next city priorities would be 1 city SW of Leipiz and NE of Kiev, then another to NE of Berlin. However, due to barb activity to the NE, I may be forced to settle along the river to the NW till we get some archers online. please let me know if this sounds ok.

We could settle at 9 or 10 to the NW, on the NE bank of the river, and pick up the wheat on the first expansion. Also, the BV to the ENE on the river is the exact tile that Bugs & I had been discussing for a city. I'd stay in expansion mode for now. You could also go postal, uh, I mean coastal, to the N adjacent to the mountains. We'll likely draw some barbs from there in the future. Iron (& everything else) looks plentiful enough that we may not need to keep snagging all of the sources.

Also, nice job Denyd, as usual! :D Especially with the trades.

In that case, priorities for tonight:

1. Settle green
2. Settler for yellow w/escort
3. Explore to the north & NW
4. Contact with France
5. Settler for blue
6. Barracks for military towns & temples for the rest
7. Look for a good worker factory location
8. Stay out of wars
9. Reach tech parity without mortgaging the future


Nice job achieving your goals!!!

Also, the BV to the ENE on the river is the exact tile that Bugs & I had been discussing for a city.
Please clarify :) I do not know what a "BV" is. Thanks.

Good news on the English-French war.

I would settle SW of Leipzig and then try and plant a city on the coast where the barb camp is. Hopefully someone will discover map making soon and we can build some galleys.

Very well played Denyd. :thumbsup: Good job exploring.

Let's continue to build up our veteran warrior force and grab land. I'm sure that Joannie has run out of dirt and that's why her and Liz are having a spat.

BV = Barb village

Given the amount of land between RCP 4 and 10, we might want to consider some city at 7, just to fill in.

BV = Barb village

Given the amount of land between RCP 4 and 10, we might want to consider some city at 7, just to fill in.
thanks, i always called them barb huts :crazyeye:
re: city placement... I agree. we have some cities that seem way out there, allowing some large areas in between. i may hold off on getting the galley city (E of Cologne) if the barb threat is deemed too large. it's ashame we don't have horsemen to take care of those and lvl up to elites.

I’ve looked over the map and checked out the AI growth potential and decided to propose a plan of action for the short and long term in the following phases:

Expansion Map:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugsy_Plan3A.jpg

Growth Phase:

Have Berlin continue to produce settlers. Using a 4-7-10 RCP placement, we can add 19 more cities to the rings. That would give us 28 cities in the primary core. Before the rings are saturated it will be necessary to begin expanding northward. I’m guessing after 3 or 4 more settlers are added to the rings, we should begin that direction and then alternate between 1 for the rings and 1 for the north. Either the blue or red dot (or both) should make a fine worker factory. The rest of the cities should be building barracks & warriors slipping in a library & marketplace (as production permits when the improvements become available). During this phase research should be focused on currency (due soon), literature and getting to republic.

Conquest Phase:

Once we have built an available force of 20 Veteran Warriors, we should connect the iron and upgrade to Swordsmen. A two-pronged attack begins from the west against Minsk (or a new city east of Minsk), moving west to Moscow, while a second SOD moves south against Kiev heading to Moscow. After Moscow falls, smaller stacks of swords (3-4) are sent to claim the remaining Russian cities. The final Russian city should be spared (maybe keep the easternmost city) as a science booster. After a little R&R for the troops and the arrival of reinforcements, England moves to the gun sights of the German War Machine. They should be eliminated without too much pain and the French should follow in suit. At this point, most of the wars should be over. Great Leader #1 should go for a swordsman army, to facilitate the Heroic Epic and eventually the Military Academy & the Pentagon. If a Great Leader is born without a wonder to build he should be used for a palace move, either to Paris or somewhere to the north.

Infrastructure & Exploration Phase:

The next phase of the game will consist of suicide galleys and city improvements. Each city should get a library & marketplace. The cities on the two inner rings should get aqueducts where needed. We should be packing in as many cities as possible. Once we have discovered Education, universities for all of the inner ring cities. A Forbidden Palace in Leipzig is probably the best spot. We should be shooting for the Sun Tzu, Bach’s, Smith’s and Newton’s (for the Golden Age kickoff). Once we find the other continent, we should keep the Russians isolated from them. We should try to ascertain, who is the top dog over there and work to align the others against him.

Research & Rail Phase:

At this point of the game, we should be the largest & richest tribe on the planet. All of our core cities should now have banks and the coastal cites should have harbors. We’ll need the Military Academy in our most productive city for empty army building. After we’ve entered the industrial age, we should then gift Russia to that point and acquire her bonus tech and then remove her from the game. While our workforce is railing the land, our core should be adding factories. With the TOE slingshot and timed builds Hoover & US should be ours.

Final Campaign & the UN Vote

Once Motorized Transportation is available, we should begin pumping out Panzers to fill up all those waiting empty armies. Load up a bunch of transports with Panzer Armies and infantry for a little sea voyage with a couple of destroyers for escorts. We then gift the top dog to the Modern Age (and hopefully gift him fission). Once he builds the United Nations we sign MPP’s with the other tribes and declare war on the big guy. We wait for him to bombard our shoreline (they just love doing that) and then land our Panzer force and Blitzkrieg all the way to the UN city. Then we sit back and wait for the vote.

nice layout, though i don't think we should have to strictly hold to the rcp mold. we'll have to see what happens as things develope. as far as wars go, russia seems to have very few cities so i wouldn't mind taking her out while we're still expanding.

I see the point of keeping Russia as a pet, but wouldn't cry to see her go earlier. Also, I'd like to see something to the NE of Cologne, just so it doesn't turn into a fairly large beachead. Otherwise it doesn't sound bad.

I had a thought for the final phase, if we happen to get a GL during the battles, we could perform a palace jump to the other island. With a centralized FP on our home island, we'd see a huge jump in productivity.

I had an alternate plan of building the Great Library & researching to Invention and building Leo's, then turning off science and waiting for the other AI to find us while building knights, galleys and infrastructure. Then when we meet the other AI we'd have a huge treasury and instant tech parity, upgrade all the horses to cavalry & galleys to galleons, set sail for their homeland and conquer what ever we wanted, but I decided that's a bit too much of an exploit.

The only problem with going for Russia now, is most of our warriors are too busy killing barbarians, exploring and providing MP duty.

The dot map I posted was only for the next player or two. There was a version since then with another 12 cities on it and that beachhead gets 2 of them.

The only problem with going for Russia now, is most of our warriors are too busy killing barbarians, exploring and providing MP duty.

in 6 turns we are going to have 3 barracks cities pumping out vet warriors. i believe that by the time this gets back to you, the russian war may be started or already done ;)

Not having to deal with Catherine ugly mug would not break my heart - couldn't Civ have picked a cuter leader, I mean Ingrid Bergman played Anastasia (and Joan of Arc) and she's was Catherine's daughter (alleged).

Actually the sooner France, England & Russia are controlled and those squatter barbarians have been evicted, the sooner our settlers & workers can roam freely to get their work done.

got it will play and post tonight if the connection holds up

One last thing before you start, you might want to pop out a couple of archers and send them off barbarian hunting, life would be a lot simpler if our settlers & workers weren't dodging them.

Also there is a fortified warrior on a mountain in the far north with a fortified Barbarian Horse & Warrior across a river in the woods. Your basic 'Mexican Standoff'.

Save attached at the bottom of this post.

Preflight check: If England and France are indeed at war, it is very good news since both are fairly stunted in growth and their cities are very small. The BV location that bugs and R&L like is on a flood plain. MM between Frankfurt and Berlin so Frankfurt gets an extra food boost this turn by working the wheat plain. Looks like the pump is a little broken. Not sure if I’ll get 1 every 4T this round but will try. Change Cologne from Temple to warrior. I’ll get another worker for the next player out of this town, then we can chop our way to a temple. Switch Konigsberg to a warrior as well since things might get unruly there without the lux hooked up.

IBT: Defeat barb warriors at Opplen and Munich. Another barb horse shows up. A barb warrior is on top of our irrigated game.
Berlin settler -> settler; Leipzip warrior -> warrior; Frankfurt barracks -> warrior (archer would take 10T, need to let this city grow before making those)

T1: 1225BC Irwin, from Berlin, defeats barb warrior on our game and promotes to vet. Settler heads south. Marvin the Martian keeps going out there. Odin starts coming home. MM Berlin for growth in 2T.

IBT: Mexican standoff warrior gets killed by barb horse. Barb horse appears W of Frankfurt.

T2: 1200BC Settler continues south past Leipzip, warrior from that town joins him; workers finish road near Frankfurt, move to road a tile out of horse’s range. Irwin goes back to Berlin. Marvin’s still out there, mumbling something about a space modulator.

IBT: Munich barracks -> warrior

T3: 1175BC Oops, Russian worker’s going to take 48T to chop spice jungle? I think he has better stuff to do. Rotate warriors out of Berlin and Frankfurt to cover worker stack. Trade WM around for 5g.

IBT: Cologne warrior -> worker; we now have 2 barb warriors and 1 barb horse near Munich, 2 barb horses near Nuremburg, and 1 barb warrior and 1 barb horse near Frankfurt.

T4: 1150BC Irwin covers worker that finishes road near Frankfurt, the other 2 workers must move 1T NE of Frankfurt due to barb activity, Hector covers Berlin

IBT: boy, this is getting hairy! 2 more barb horses show up near Frankfurt, 1 barb horse is now next to Berlin and 1 barb warrior next to Munich. Another barb warrior is between Berlin and Cologne while yet another is N of Cologne.

T5: 1125BC MM sci slider since currency is due next turn. Move workes into Frankfurt for warrior cover. Move Hercules out of Nuremburg to see if I can’t pop on of these local barb camps.

IBT: Frankfurt warrior defends, lose 1 worker to a barb that pops out of the fog. Barb horse near Berlin pillages a road.
Research: currency -> Philosophy (80%, 6T) MM lux slider for Berlin happiness

Berlin settler -> settler (now I see how the pump was stunted, only got 3 food that turn since barb horse was on the wheat); Leipzig warrior -> warrior; Oppeln barracks -> warrior; Frankfurt warrior -> archer
English are building the Pyramids

T6: 1100BC vet warrior from Leipzig kills pillaging scumbag barbhorse, promotes to elite; Found Hannover at RCP 9 (sorry, after review I realized this was a miscount since I thought it was at 8) to be on the river and not on a BG -> warrior; kill the scumbag barb horse on our wheat; settler stops short under the protection of the warrior on the wheat.

IBT: Munich warrior defends against barb warrior

T7: 1075BC Irwin pops out of Frankfurt and kills a barb warrior, letting the workers out to irrigate. I’m going nuts here. Reg warrior attacks barb horse on mountain near Munich and wins, promoting to vet. Worf moves out of Berlin to deal with that BV on our spot. Elite warrior looses 2hp but kills barb warrior near Berlin. There are now only 1 barb horse in our territory and its near Nuremburg and he has a friend.

IBT: gee, what a surprise, more barb horses show up. 3 are now near Nuremburg and 1 pops out near Frankfurt (what do they have against this town, anyways?) Munich warrior -> warrior. English are building the Colossus

T8: 1050BC Barb horse forces Ann and Cathy to stop irrigation near Frankfurt.

IBT: Konigsburg warrior -> temple; Cologne worker -> warrior

T9: 1025BC Hercules disbands the barb camp between Heidelburg and Munich; Arnold comes all the way from Oppeln to kill barb horse near Frankfurt

IBT: Nuremburg warrior is killed by a barb horse and the temple build is destroyed. A second barb horse enters the city and kills citizens (down from pop 2 to 1)

Leipzig warrior -> warrior; Opplen warrior -> warrior (MM off roaded grass onto forrest to speed build from 4T to 2T)

T10: 1000BC MM Leipzig and Berlin so Berlin get 5fpt. This is needed so the next settler, built in 5T, is done at the same time we grow to size 6. Raise lux slider to 10%. Munich warrior moves out to provide cover for Nuremburg. Leipzig warrior moves out to cover Munich. Imho, the warrior/settler pair has reached it’s final destination since a border expansion will give it a wheat and flood plain, however, that is up to the next player since 1 tile NW will put it at distance 10. trade for currency is available but i was waiting for a twofer or maybe construction :)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/sgotm2-bugs-1000bc.JPG

Nice work grahamiam :goodjob:

Those Barbarians are barbaric :)

I wouldn't fret over city placement, we'll probably do a palace jump later anyway so only the location of the FP is important.

We'll need to keep an eye on Catherine. From what we know of the Russian lands, she's going to feel a little crowded soon and we could be her first target of choice.

thanks, but those barbs are a very distracting problem and are slowing down our production, both settlers and warriors. Oppeln can produce a vet warrior every 2T, Frankfurt probably every 3T, with Leizpig and Munich a little slower. we shouldn't build anymore archers after the one in Frankfurt is finish but instead focus on getting 15-20 vet warriors. it shouldn't take too long and i think if we follow that, R&L will be in position to do the mass upgrade with bugs launching the war. the real limiting factor will be money. anyone good at estimating how much we'll need?

$%$#@$% BARBS!!

It sounds like we need to change the order we fight wars. First war - barbs, second Russia, third, England.

$%$#@$% BARBS!!

It sounds like we need to change the order we fight wars. First war - barbs, second Russia, third, England.
we can prevent the majority of barb problems by filling our core with cities. the biggest problem during my turns was that the barb camps SE of Leipzig and E of Cologne were spewing out units very quickly and, basically, within our border. next turn, both should be gone so things will quiet down for a few turns and we can regain our focus.

imho, we need the galley city and then a jungle city between Leipzig and Heidleburg to prevent the BV's from poping up so close. Also, north of Cologne and North of our new city to the NW would be good as well to prevent these close-in barb encounters.

One more thing about those barbarians, is we want to be sure to have all of the barb villages gone when we switch ages. Those massive uprisings are a real pain.

I was looking around for the parameters for this game and couldn't find any mention of a post 1AD palace jump penalty. If there isn't one, moving the palace to the other island could make this island a real production powerhouse (once the jungle & forrests are cleared).

Who's up?

One more thing about those barbarians, is we want to be sure to have all of the barb villages gone when we switch ages. Those massive uprisings are a real pain.
Who's up?
Once we get horsemen, we can send a few out to play wack-a-mole with the barb huts.
Leibniz is up!

It sounds like we are playing with raging barbs. That means 32 barbs per camp will be generated at the age change.

Once we kill the barb camps we'll want some troops out in the wilderness on barb suppression.

Please skip me.
Im at a conference this week and will be back on Saturday.
I can post in the forum here but not play.
Probably you don't want to wait 3 days for my turns.

ok, thanks Leibniz. with the time limit set for this sg, we shouldn't wait. R&L is up!

Got it. Will play tonight.

IBT: BH out of E camp. Berlin: settler > settler.

975 – 1
settler E,SE,S. Max S, Odin N, Hercules SW, Worf -2 NE kills BW & BV collects 25g & promotes to vet, Arnold rests, Kreuzberg founded > temple, Patton forts Kreuzberg (BH 2E), Marvin E, Sherman E.

IBT: Work attacked across a river but dies to BH, Oppeln: warrior > warrior

950 – 2
Holz (Oppeln) ENE, Odin NE, settler S, Sherman E, Hercules SW, Arnold SE, Marvin E, Max N.

IBT: Philo > Lit in 10, MM Koenigsburg to Scientist to avoid unrest, Frankfurt: archer > warrior in 4, Munich: warrior > temple in 30.

925 – 3
Marshall (Munich) forts, Max N, settler S, Ann/Cathy/Russian SSW, Holz NENN, Odin N, Hercules SE, Sherman E, Arnold NWNN, Fletch (archer Frankfurt) NN, Debbie & Thor E, Marvin S. No worthwhile trades.

IBT: Oppeln: warrior > warrior in 2, Cologne: warrior > warrior in 5. English warrior & archer NW out of Newcastle.

900 – 4
Pershing (Cologne) E, Holz N, Fletch E kills BH, Thor forts, Debbie roads, Odin NE, Allen (Oppeln) N,N,W. 3 girls road, settler S, Hercules NW to meet, Sherman S, Arnold N, Marvin rests, Max E,S.

IBT: Leipzig warrior > warrior in 5.

875 – 5
Russia up Constr, 1 worker, 134g, down Philo & curr
France 12g, down Philo & curr
England 0g, down Philo & curr
Russia will give worker + 53g for Philo
Russia will give worker + 134g + WM for currency.
Wants Curr + Philo + 44g for Constr. Won’t trade Constr w/o curr.
Hold off.

Change Hannover warrior > Rax in 11 (holding for Lib).
Clark (Leipzig) S, Odin SW, Allen NW, Marvin N, Holz N, Fletch NE, Arnold N, Pershing E finds BH & BW, Max SE, Hercules & settler SE (@8.5 to found), Sherman forts Nuremburg.

IBT: Berlin: settler > settler, Oppeln: warrior > warrior in 2. Another BH near Cologne.

850 – 6
Roosevelt (Oppeln) N,N,W, Odin S, Clark S, Max NW, Eva (Cologne) roads, Pershing N kills BW but red next to 2 BH. Allen W, Marvin S, Holz NE, Fletch NE, Arnold N sees cow, Stuttgart founded (@8.5) > temple (hold for lib), Hercules forts, settler NW,NW,W.
Russia will give worker + 24g for Philo, but France only 12g + WM, and England only WM. Hold off.

IBT: Pershing killed by BH, barbs coming from W of Kreuzberg, Frankfurt: warrior > warrior in 3.

825 – 7
Howe (Frankfurt) S,W kills BH, settler follows Howe, Roosevelt E, Marvin rests, Odin SW, Clark S, Max N, Holz SW, Fletch E, Arnold N sees BH 2 W, Allen N
Waited too long to trade. Buy Russian worker for Philo + 4g. Sell Philo to both France and England for WM + 25g each.
Russian worker to Munich.

IBT: Oppeln: warrior > warrior in 2.

800 – 8
Prescott (Oppeln) NNNE, 3 girls SES, Max S, Russian S, Holz W, Howe & settler W, Roosevelt NE,N,NW, Allen N, Odin SW, Clark SW, Fletch NW, Arnold (-2 red) SW kills BH, Marvin N.

IBT: Nuremberg: warrior > temple (hold for lib), Cologne: warrior > temple in 20 (or hold for lib).

775 – 9
Newb (Cologne) SE,S, Wayne to Cologne & fort, Prescott SWW, Roosevelt SE, Holz SW, Arnold rests, Fletch S, Allen NE kills BW, Howe N kills BH, settler W, Marvin rests, Odin S, 2 girls road (in 4, on way to Hannover & Stuttgart), Clark SW sees French spear 2NW of Moscow, Max forts, Russian roads, Buzz (Nuremb) E.

IBT: Frech spear defends against Russian archer near
Leipzig: warrior > warrior in 5, Oppeln: warrior > warrior in 2, Frankfurt warrior > warrior in 3,

750 – 10
Thor NW, settler W (heading for forest SSW from fish, 1N3NW from Konigsberg, which will get fish + 2BG on expansion, & on fresh water). Marvin N, Buzz SE, other moves.
Liz & Joan offer Constr + WM for curr. Cathy offers Constr + WM + 125g.

Recommend selling currency to Russia only.
France is at WAR with Russia.
Settler in Berlin next turn. Warriors up in 2, 3 & 5.
Lit coming in 2.

Well played R & L! I'm going to slot Leibniz in behind me since I probably won't get it completed until Friday. His conference should be over by then.

Denyd
G-man
R & L – Just finished
Bugs – Up
Leibniz – On deck

I'll see if I can get a screen shot up so we can discuss where we're going. I think we're going to need an embassy in Paris so we can tell who Joannie is fighting.

nice set R&L! how we doing on unit count? i have a feeling we're getting close to wanting that iron connected.

iirc, warrior -> sword upgrade costs 2*(30-10) = 40g, right? so we'll need between 400 to 600 gold to get 10 to 15 swords. that currency trade should help :)

Thanks for switching me. In 48 hours I will be back and can play then.

Tomorrow I will also have more time and can read your posts of the last days a bit more carefully.

nice set R&L! how we doing on unit count? i have a feeling we're getting close to wanting that iron connected.

IIRC, we're in the high 20s for warriors. Also, I have a Russian contract worker bulding a road to the iron right now, and she has ~5 turns to go for hook-up. I have some of the warriors out hunting barbs or watching from mountains, which is how I noticed the French-Russian war. Still, we should have 15 or so in position to upgrade. We need more cities to be connected, and more rax in the outlying cities.

We want to make sure that France doesn't eat all of the Russian pie!

IIRC, we're in the high 20s for warriors. Also, I have a Russian contract worker bulding a road to the iron right now, and she has ~5 turns to go for hook-up.
We want to make sure that France doesn't eat all of the Russian pie!
that sounds about right. i counted 11 builds and 2 losses during your turns :goodjob: i say we gather 15 available vet warriors in Leipzig, upgrade as all, then launch with those 15 and the elite warrior. upgrade the rest over the course of the war and send as reinforcements, maybe even disconnecting and reconnecting the iron 1 or 2 times to maximize available units. take out Russia's heart (Moscow) and do our best to avoid autorazing the rest. i don't think we have to be too careful at this point since we have a lot of time to repair our rep. :) this will also cutoff everyone from settling on our eastern flank.

I just took at the most current map (thank you Dianthus, CRP rings is a great utility when you can't install the game :thumbsup: ) and it looks like Russia is down to 4 cities (St Petersberg & Smolensk are gone).

We should be able to take out the remaining 4 cities with less than 10 swords, if we save Moscow for last. If a city happens to auto raze, we might want a replacement settler ready.

Once we've acquired the Russian lands, it might be time to develop a split personality:
:D would keep building settlers, workers and infrastructure (libraries & marketplaces), most of the new cities would follow this doctrine.

:mad: would collect the swordsmen and head west taking out the weaker of England & France and then the survivor. The core cities with barracks would be tasked with providing veteran swordsmen (upgraded warriors) to the battle force.

Since the French and English have been at war before (squandering shields and population), they both are probably ripe for acquisition.

As an aside, this island would be great for the Pyramids owner (hint-hint).

The rest of the AA wonders aren't wouldn't be that helpful (maybe Great Library or Great Lighthouse), but we definitly should be trying for Sun-Tzu & Bach's in the Middle Ages.

yes, i like it :evil: we want this island and we want it now!

With England currently building Pyramids & Colossus, we may want to let them finish. I'm rather fond of the impact that the Colossus has on our economy.

Also, England is still the point leader, and isn't currently leading with either culture or cities. On the histograph, she shows slightly more powerful, and she does have iron hooked-up (as per her available resources for trade (=0)). Since she's behind in cities, and has no workers for sale, I'm calling it mostly military, which I saw plenty of.

I'd say Russia > France > England.

I'd say Russia > France > England.
i second that opinion. plus, it'll allow us to do nasty things like ally with france vs russia and england vs france if we need to split thier forces. i really hope they get those wonders.

for us, i agree with denyd that we don't need any till the MA, maybe we plan for Copernicus by doing a beeline for Astronomy, then comeback and do the lower side of the tree. well, we'll see when we get there. need to chop some heads first :)

Well that settles it. I will be setting up for the German-Russian war for sometime around turn 6 or 7. Settlers for autorazes will tag along.

Pre-flight – 750 BC – Wake up a couple sleeping warriors and head them towards Leipzig.

Diplo check – We can get construction from anyone. Go to Cathy and sell her Currency for Construction, 125G & WM. Now we just need Philosophy to enter the Middles Ages.

City Check – No MMing to be done. I like following R & L. :D

IBT - Berlin: settler=> warrior (we’re slightly off schedule)

1. 730 BC – Science comes down to 70%. Settler moves into position. Send new settler towards Russia. Will be an autoraze replacement. Start gathering up the attack force.

IBT – Literature comes in. Select Philosophy next. Run 100%, due in 11 at -4gpt.
Oppeln: Warr=>war

2. 710 BC – Found Bonn. More gathering.

IBT – Berlin: war=> settler
Frankfort: war=>war
English start the Oracle

3. 690 BC – 14 turns to hook up iron. Move some workers to change that.

Buy a worker from Cathy for 109G.

Kill a barb horse.

Moscow is now French. We may not get the chance to destroy the Russians.

IBT – Leipzig, Oppeln: war=> war

4. 670 BC – More maneuvering.

5. 650 BC – Disperse a barb camp for 25G.
Reach the northern coast. There is a strait and some dirt on the other side.

IBT – Oppeln: war=> war (this is a nice warrior factory)
Frankfurt: war=> war
Hannover: Rax=> worker


6. 630 BC – Kill a couple of barb horses.
Back off science for upgrade cash.

MM Berlin and Frankfort.

7. 610 BC – Iron is hooked up. Upgrade five swords.
Cathy has CoL. Sell her Lit for CoL & 20G & WM.
Sell Joan CoL for worker & WM.

Upgrade another warrior.

IBT _ Berlin: Settler=> settler

8. 590 BC – Start the march on Russia.
Russia has founded a fourth city.

Lizzy has suddenly caught up in tech.

IBT – Kill three attacking barbs.

9. 570 BC – Found Salzburg at 7.5. Upgrade another sword.

10. 550 BC - Disburse another barb camp, pass go, collect 25G. Maneuver into position for attack.

After Action Report – I have a settler heading towards the coast where the warrior is. We need a galley out there. We are now in position to start the German-Russian war. I have split the force.

See the diagram. There are three swords in force 1 which is directly north of Odessa. This force can probably take the two eastern cities. Force two, which is NW of Odessa can take Odessa and the position itself for the German-French war. Force Three is still gathering. You will probably need three swords for Kiev.

After capturing Odessa and Kiev, I would consolidate the extra units and march on Moscow, Besacon, and Orleans.

There are vet warriors to just south of Leipzig. Since there is now a barracks in Hannover, they can be upgraded there. I have the workers in the east, but some of those should probably be brought back to road to the front.

Denyd – On Deck
G-Man
R & L
Bugs – Just Played
Leibniz – Gets to start the war

Save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Bugsy_SG002_BC0550_01.SAV

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM2_Bugs_-_Russian_Campaign.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM2_Bugs_-_French_Campaign.jpg

nice set bugs!

geez, looks like we'll see some heavy razing going on. not 1 of those size 1 cities has a cultural expansion!

leibniz, repeat after me:
i will declare war before entering russian territory
i will declare war before entering russian territory
i will declare war before entering russian territory

i will declare war before entering french territory
i will declare war before entering french territory
i will declare war before entering french territory

:lol: you need to make sure you do that so we don't take too much of a rep hit with these wars. we're gonna be tarnished enough with all the razing going on. good luck :thumbsup:

Nice work Sir Bugsy :goodjob:

It's :hammer: time Leibniz, Joanie has paved the way to her core with weakened cities and out of date troops.

I agree with Grahamiam about the amount of razing coming up, but who'll know about it if Russia, France & England are gone before we meet the other continent :evil:

Im back in town.

Before playing I have to read all the post of the last days because I had little time the last days.

And yes I will declare war after entering enemy territory ;)

T0: MM Berlin. Hannover is not connected, the warriors cannot be upgraded there. So we must do this in Leipzig. This will slow down our attack speed a bit.

T1: Move warriors back to Leipzig, declare war on Russia (no units in Russian territory :) ). Move 3 swords on hill W of Odessa. Fotify a few warriors to let them heal.

IBT: French archer kills Russian archer, a warrior kills barb.

T2: Berlin Settler > Settler, Oppeln Sword > Sword, Frankfurt Sword > Sword. Upgrade 3 warriors.
Attack on Odessa. 3 battles vet sword vs reg spear. We have lost one sword and have one elite promotion. Odessa has been destroyed. Warrior desrtoys a barb camp. We can upgrade another warrior.

IBT: French take Kiev.

T3: Move troops, destroyed one more barb camp and upgraded one more warrior.

T4: Leipzig Sword > Sword, another warrior is upgraded. Dortmund founded > Galley. A warrior kills a barb horse. Trade with France Literature + WM vs. Worker WM + 13g. MM Berlin.

T5: upgrade warrior, move troops.

T6: Berlin Settler > Settler. Hannover Worker > Worker.
Attack on Minsk: We have won the two battles vet sword vs reg spear. Minsk has been destroyed, one worker captured.

IBT: England builds Great Lib.

T7: We have destroyed a barb camp.

IBT: France builds Great Lib.

T8: Oppeln Sword > Sword. Frankfurt Sword > Sword. Brandenburg founded > Lib. We have destroyed a barb camp. A warrior dies against a barb. MM Berlin.

IBT: Nuremberg riots > Taxman. France builds Pyram.

T9: Cologne Temple > Lib. Declare war on France ( no, we have no troops in enemy territory :) ).Warrior kills barb horse and promotes.

IBT: French vet archer kills our vet sword.

T10: Berlin Settler > Settler.
Attack on Moscow: 2 won battles, one elite promotion. Captured Moscow. Attack on Kiev: two battles. We have captured Kiev.


SAVE (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Bugsy_SG002_BC0350_01.SAV)

Great execution!!! Just outstanding. Sorry about the warriors moving towards Hannover with no iron there. :rolleyes: good thing this is a succession game.

Denyd - UP
G-Man – On Deck
R & L
Bugs
Leibniz – Just Played

excellent set leibniz :goodjob: very nice excecution. glad to see the english and the french built the GLib and the Pyramids for us :D

Nice execution :goodjob: - too bad about all the auto-razes, but we'll just have to settle the land with our own settlers, at least no flips

Got it - I'll try to play tonight (tomorrow for sure)

One more remark:

This is a very well prepared war ( so thx to Bugsy). Also theres a huge stack near Kiev. Probably we have no problems to march to Paris and further. More swords will follow. I haven't token (taken ??? ) out the last Russian city because there are too many French archers nearby. When they are killed, we should have no problems to destroy (or capture) the last Russian city.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Bugsy_SG002_BC0150_01.SAV

Hope the above link works (I copied it from the team submission page)

Turn Log 3

Turn 0 – 350 BC - Reset to personal preferences – Switch all the temple builds to libraries (they are cheaper and will provide the faster culture expansion and increased science) – Increase science by 10% to shave 7 turns off Polytheism

IBT: Lose a wounded Swordsman to French Archer – Vet Warrior defends without a nick against BW – Munich library->swordsman – Heidelberg library->worker

Turn 1 – 330 BC – 6 Vet Swords leave Kiev heading for France – Send Marvin to Oppelin – Prescott spots a BV – Allen heads for it – Elite Swordsman kills Vet Archer and Barbarossa is born (GL) – Barbarossa makes a dash for the core – Upgrade a pair of warriors to swords – Move workers to connect cities – Daffy kills Reg Archer and promotes – Nothing much on the trade front

IBT: French archers dies attacking stack (Irwin 3/5 promotes) – Sword who spawned GL kills attacking archer and promotes (3/5), retreats an attacking Horse before dieing to attacking horse – Vet sword (3/5) in Moscow defeats attacking horse and promotes.

Turn 2 – 310 BC – Prescott (5/5) kills BW – Allen approaches BV – Upgrade a warrior – Barbarossa heading to core – Sword stack advances towards Besancon – Nothing new on the trade front – Since we don’t seem to have many warriors worth upgrading, increase science 20% to get Polytheism in 5 turns (not 13)

IBT: Lose the Elite Warrior in Moscow taking 1 archer with him and redlining a horse, but Elites Swords fights off 3 attacking French Horses (2 die – retreats) – Moscow riots

Turn 3 – 290 BC – Allen kills a BW & BV – Prescott kills a BH – Roosevelt (3/5) kills a Horse and promotes – Daffy kills a horse – Dortmund connected – Stack continues on it’s way – Settlers moving to projected city sites – France will talk and give up Avignon for peace, but let’s wait and see what happens

IBT: Roosvelt dies to a Reg French Horse (he was on a hill !) – Berlin settler->settler – Leipzig sword->sword – Oppelin sword-> sword – Frankfurt sword->sword

Turn 4 – 270 BC – Jackson kills French Archer – Revere retreats a French horse – Sword stack reaches Besancon – Daffy retreats a Horse

IBT: Beijing completes Pyramids

Turn 5 – 250 BC – Battle for Besancon:
Revere (3/5) kills Red-Lined Horse
Bert (1/4) kills Reg Spear
Alphonso (2/5) kills Reg Spear and promotes
Jonesy (4/5) wounded horse, takes Besancon, promotes, and captures 2 slaves

IBT: Warrior (2/4) defends against BH – France appears to be spent – Kruezberg library->barracks – Hanover worker->library

Turn 6 – 230 BC – Settler founds Hamburg starts library – Jackson (4/5) kills French horse and promotes – Daffy (3/5) kills BH – Six swords fortify in Besancon to heal with 3 others on the way – Make peace with Russia (Russian archer too close to undefended Hamburg and besides Russia is no longer a threat) – Barbarossa waits for something to build in Berlin

IBT: Newb (2/3) defends against BH – Discover Polytheism and enter the Middle Ages – Feudalism is the bonus tech (Barbarossa has something to do) – Begin Research on Engineering at 80% due in 24 (-3gpt) – Kruezeberg riots (MP left to follow new settler :blush: ) – Palace Expansion gets us a front door

Turn 7 – 210 BC – Settler founds Bremen starts library – Frank (5/5) kills Archer and promotes – Marshall (4/4) kills horse – Barbarossa to Cologne – Switch the 2 barracks builds to libraries in prep for Sun Tzu – Nothing new on the trade front, but the number of BV scare me if someone else joins us in the middle ages

IBT: Marshall (3/5) defends against a French Sword – Elite Sword defends against BH – Cologne library Sun Tzu

Turn 8 – 190 BC – Barbarossa hurries Sun Tzu – Jackson (4/5) kills BV – 5 Swords ready for Orleans – No trades available

IBT: England offers TM swap sure – Warrior defends against attacking BW – Berlin settler->settler – Oppelin sword->sword – Cologne builds Sun Tzu starts sword

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SunTzu.jpg

Turn 9 – 170 BC – Approach a couple of BV – Assault on Orleans – Revere loses to Vet Spear (1/4) – Alphonse (3/4) kills Reg Spear – Jonesey kills Vet spear and Orleans auto-razes – Jackson (3/5) kills BH – England & France both have Republic (France will give for peace)

IBT: French spearman runs out and says kill me – Konigsberg library->pikeman – Frankfurt sword->sword

Turn 10 – 150 BC – Newb kills BW menacing our workers – Sword kills BV NE of Cologne (+25g) – Fletch (2/4) kills BV

Notes: There are 6 Swords prepped for Rheims – Once Jackson has healed send him after the BV SE of his location – 4 new swords will come on line during the next set and there are 11 at or near the front – Things didn’t go quite as quickly as I planned (Paris is not ours yet), but attacking French units and barbarians we’re more trouble than expected – We’ll probably be seeing more swords now that Rouen has iron connected – Score 423

nice set! i'll try to play and post tonight. how far away is Rouen? this is why i really like horses in support of swords. they can flare out to kill the silly archers that pop-up, capture enemy workers quickly, and pillage iron and horse tiles. swords can then be left to do the heavy hitting on the cities.

if i get another leader, should I make a sword army or should we hold it for the FP?

Denyd- Another great set of turns. Going for Sun-Tzu was a great decision. G-man might want to sell off the barracks after the uprising. We probably want to stay at minimum cash until the barbs are gone.

After the uprising we may want to consider gifting Cathy into the middle ages, to see what tech she gets. Hopefully it is something other than Feudalism and we can trade for it. Another thought. If we think we have the barb villages under control, we can gift her right away and set off the uprising on the other continent.

Another thought. Since we're going for a diplo win. We may want to keep the three ladies alive with just a single city (League of Ordinary Gentlemen Redux). Over then next two ages we should be able to make them be polite to us.

Edit - Would anyone like to write up a summary for the spoiler page?

G-Man: Rouen is the the SW corner of France. We'll have horses hooked up soon, but probably not in time to do much in France. As for the next GL, I would have built a Sword Army if I hadn't got Feudalism. I think we can build the FP rather quickly (~60 turns) in Leipzig.

Bugsy: There are about 4 BV's on the map right now: 1-SW of Hamburg 2-NE of Berlin (English archers next door) 3-on the coast SE of Dortmund 4-Somewhere up north (BW's showing up, but I haven't found the camp yet). I'd like to get those northern ones gone before we get the uprisings.

Keeping Cathy where she is shouldn't be too hard and Joanie has a couple of tundra cites. I don't remember much about Lizzy's western lands, but there should be a spot for an English Gulag. My only worry is having them vote for some one else when the time comes. Some of these ladies have long memories.

Whenever you settle for peace with France, be sure to get Republic (no reason to have to spend time researching it when pointy stick will do the job).

If we keep giving them sweet deals and luxes, they will come to love us.

Edit - Would anyone like to write up a summary for the spoiler page?
not me as i got 0 votes in the last write-up poll :lol: hey, even i didn't vote for myself :)

I've got a little bit of time, so I'll write something up for the spoiler thread.

Edit - We now have a summary posted in the spoiler thread. Feel free to read there.

The save is attached to the bottom of this post

Preflight check: wake the worker building the road on the forrest next to the horse (6T) and move him to the horse. Settler pump seems broken so I’ll fix it. Switch Kreuzberg from barrack to granary and MM to speed growth. Upgrade couple of warriors to swords

IBT: English archer disbands a barb hut to our west; 2 French spears move up towards us; Heidlburg worker -> warrior

T1: 130BC roads are getting completed towards the south; stack of swords moves next to Rheims; Alphonso (elite sword) fortifies to heal; move Jackson towards Besancon; Daffy stays in that city since that is where the 2 spears are headed. MM Berlin and Munich so Munich and use the game for 1 turn (Berlin growth still in 1T); New Berlin founded-> worker

T2: 110BC Attack on Rheims: vet sword kills spear, promotes; elite sword kills spear and generated GL Richtoffen and we take Rhiems + a catapult + 3g. Generate Army with leader, loading Bert (3/4)

Vet sword relieves Ernie (elite) in Moscow; Daffey holds tight in Besancon since the spear moved onto a hill. Sell WM to England for WM & 8g; Fire the clowns in Moscow and Kiev.

IBT: Konigsberg suffers from disease from working a jungle (got to go thru all cities to make sure we are not doing more of this than we need to); Rheims resistance is broken so I tax-starve them.

Japan finishes the Oracle

T3: 90BC Load elite* sword into army; Daffey moves out of Besancon, allowing a vet sword to take over; locate a barb hut SE of Nuremburg so the warrior there gets upgraded.

IBT: Leipzig sword -> sword; Oppeln sword -> sword; Konigsberg shrinks again; English are building the Great Wall

T4: 70BC Max kills an archer and promotes (3/5); Sword from Opplen has to take a really tough route to go south so I switch the build to a worker (it will get that town off the jungle as well); Sword army and 5 elites + cat move out for Paris

IBT: Berlin settler -> settler (MM for 5fpt); disease again at Konigsburg!

T5: 50BC Near Besancon: Jackson kills spear (3/5); Big stack is next to Paris, 2T from Avignon

IBT: disease strike Opplen; Opplen worker -> Library; Frankford Sword -> sword; Munich sword -> sword; Stuttgart library -> warrior

T6: 30BC Attack on Paris: cat misses; Army kills spear; elite sword kills spear; elite sword kills spear and we take the city + 2 workers and 2 gold; move 3 remaining swords into position for Avignon; moving settlers due west since there’s a lot of land that way.

IBT: Paris resistance ends, Opplen suffers from disease again; Cologne sword -> worker; Massive Barb uprising near Moscow as England is now in the MA.

T7: 10BC Attack on Avignon: sword kills spear; sword kills spear; sword kills sword and we take the city + 1 worker; Marshal kills sword S of Avignon
Buy Englands WM to see if I can tell were the barbs are gonna come from. There’s a new barb hut E of Moscow and west of Bremen in addition to the one to our far NW and 1 south of Russia (Svest something)

IBT: French request and audience, they will give Republic and 13g and 1 city (not a very good one) so I turn it down; French sword kills a 3/5 elite sword; 24 barb horses show up next to a warrior settler pair.

T8: 10AD Found Bugsville next to all those barb horses; Paine kills a barb warrior near Moscow; a settler sword pair turns around and heads for the hills (literally, it is on automove to the spot between the 2 gold hills between Frankfurt and Konigsberg); cat bombards sword, knocking off 1hp; elite sword finishes him off. Notice that Russia is also in the MA, getting our tech so next player can feel free knocking the big girl out :)

IBT: Arnold and an archer valiantly try to hold on to bugsville, killing 9 barb horsemen but it falls, costing us a whopping 15g but gets rid of all those horsemen. See a French spear near Moscow kill a large number of barb horseman.
Salzburg library -> worker; French are building the Glib :lol:

T9: 30AD Payne kills barb horse on a mountain near Moscow, another vet sword kills another one in the same area; send sword/settler pair back towards the NW; send army, 3 swords and the cat to Marseilles.

IBT: Paine promotes to elite by defeating a barb horse; see elite French spear kill a barb horse;2 barb horses enters bugsville, costing us 2g (2 english archers are going north for that barb camp); 11 barb horses appear near Moscow
Berlin settler -> settler (MM for growth in 1T); Nuremburg library -> courthouse (next player may want to change it); Cologne worker -> worker

T10: 50AD Attack on Marseilles: cat misses; (all elites) sword kills spear; sword (daffy) kills spear; sword dies to spear; Army kills spear (5/9) and we take the city. Very nasty spear!
Outside Avignon: Max, Elite sword kills archer

Settler in Berlin awaiting orders. Theres a sword to the NW waiting as escort but there are plenty of units around if you want to go East. A lot of barbs are around Moscow but you can’t see them. They are on the hill E, SE from Moscow (NW of barb hut).

France is ready to talk whenever. We can get a couple of towns or the Republic + 1 town. IMHO, she’s almost dead so take Rouen, Lyons (furs), and Tours and see if you can get 1 more town + Republic for peace.

Score is 508.

Good Luck!

Recent additions:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/sgotm2-bugs-50ad.JPG

Lyons is the French capitol so we'll need to capture it. We ought to capture Lyon as well since that's where her iron is. Let's leave Joannie with Chartres and then we can keep her as a pet. Same with Cathy and Liz. Cathy'll probably start building cities again soon. More for us to capture when the 20 turns of peace are up.

Keep cranking out settlers!

Roster Check:

Denyd
G-Man- Just got done with a nice campaign
R & L - Up
Bugs - On Deck
Leibniz

sorry bugs, forgot to mention, thanks for doing the write-up in the spoiler. very nice :)

Maybe Grenoble would be a better pet city for the French. Fewer shields (max seven spt), no furs, they can't get the whale, the only food will be the fish and anything from a harbor.

We'll probably want to raze Tours due to the proximity to their future capitol.

We will probably want to start building happiness generating buildings very soon to maximize our score. I'd start with markets in all cities.

OK, got it. Have a meeting tonight, and then will be finishing BUGS1, so won't get to this quite yet.

Great turns denyd and grahamiam.

Good choice on Sun Tzsus and nice write up in the spoiler Bugsy.

I agree to keep the ladies alive. Hope they will be polite to us after capturing the UN. We also want to have Cathys two free techs after gifting her in the new ages.

forgot to mention that after France is done with and she hands over Republic, we'll need to revolt immediately. if we had monarchy, we could do it now and then cut a deal with her just before the anarachy is up as it'll probably be pretty long with all our new cities.

Now that we have the victorious army, we should consider to build Heroic Epic somewhere and do a bit leader farming.

Do we want to have the FP on our home continent?

I would say yes to a home continent FP. We will be able to build a lot of cities on this continent and a nearby FP would help immensely.

I think York would be a very good location for the FP.

I agree with SB on the home continent FP. With the desired victory condition of diplomatic (and a captured UN), I was thinking we'd develop the fatherland to the fullest and keep friendly with neighbors across the sea and our neighbors at home involved in MPPs. Using the bonus techs of the Modern Age (ours & Russia's) would give us a 50-50 chance of getting Fission. During the time from Motorized Transport to Fission, we'd be pumping out Panzer armies and transports to carry them with. A trade of Fission to the major power on the other island and wait for the UN to be built. Then sign MPP's witht the other island AI and declare war on the big dog over there. Once they shelled our soil, the three ladies would declare on them. We could land our task force and snatch the UN and victory.

The only drawback in this plan is a lower score of not reaching the domination limit at the earliest and milking until the vote.

Edit: Forgot to mention this before, but excellent turns Grahamiam, also very enjoyable write up by Sir Bugsy.

yes i agree, very enjoyable write up. There are guys like me to vote for in the gotm poll without any chance. Bugsy would have a chance I think, so I encourage you to write up something for the Hitties. Hope I can participate in this Cotm.

I'm hoping to get some of my 1.15 games completed before I patch up to 1.22 and play COTM 1. I suppose I could have two loads. I'll try and write something nice for the COTM 1 game. If you want to read a nice report I did, here is my My Epic 40 Write Up (http://www.lurkerlounge.com/realmsbeyond/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=4&t=67&p=882&linear=0)

I'll try and write something nice for the COTM 1 game. If you want to read a nice report I did, here is my My Epic 40 Write Up :goodjob: one thing i really like about RBCiv is all those pretty write-ups. GoTM is pretty good but doesn't really compare to what some people do over there (though this month was really good). must take a lot of time to be so thorough and stylized. my engineering writing skills have thoroughly screwed-up my creative writing skills :lol: i tend to be concise and to the point which really leaves a lot to be desired when trying to entertain.

Yes, technical writing can be a bad habit to break. One reason why I like the epics

any word R&L? no sure when the guillotine is for this game but we ought to keep the pace up while the turns are short. hopefully, you can play and post soon :)
edit:just saw you finish bugs1 so i'm guessing this is next

I do have it. I'll be posting tonight.

50AD – 0
Move settler to E, sword to S

IBT: BH attacking someone in fog 3SE of Moscow. Starvation in Paris. Heidelburg: warrior > warrior in 10. New Berlin: worker > library in 40.

70AD – 1
Max to Avignon to heal. Bert’s Army heals.
Change Hannover from library in 15 to settler in 5 to replace rubble SW of Besancon.
Kill BW SW of Besancon. See English Elite Warrior in mountains E of Heidelburg.

IBT: More BH at Moscow. Vet sword -1 defends against sword at Lyons.
Frankfurt: sword > sword in 6. Unrest ends in Marseilles. Bonn: library > warrior in 10.
English complete GLib in London, begin GLight. Indians complete GWall in Delhi.

90 – 2
Vet sword -1 kills spear at Lyons.

IBT: vet sword kills BH flawlessly at Nuremburg & promotes, elite swrd -2 kills BH at Moscow. Vet sword kills BH in woods S of Brandenburg. Install taxman in Marseilles. Cologne: worker > settler in 8, grow in 8. Stuttgart: warrior > sword in 15. Bonn riots > install taxman.

110 – 3
At Rouen: Cat knocks 1hp off spear, Army -6 kills superspear, Daffy -1 kills sword, 2/3 spear moves to top.
At Lyons: Alphonso -3 kills spear, ¾ vet sword -1 kills spear & promotes, captures city + slave.
Lyon > library. Slave N.
SW of Besancon, 4/5 elite sword -2 kills BW/BV & gains 25g.
At Brandenburg: vet sword -2 kills BH.

IBT: Elite sword kills BH flawlessly at Moscow. Leipzig: sword > sword. Dortmund: galley > pike in 30. Starvation at Bonn. Salzburg: worker > warrior in 10.

130 – 4
At Rouen: units retire due to army damage, 1N.
Upgrade warrior in Brandenburg to sword.
Sword/settler pair walk into a barb fest NNE of Bugsville: 11BH + 1 BW. We’re on a mountain, so we’ll see.
Also serious problems at Nuremberg: 11BH + 1 BW + other BH under fog.
Galley sinks barb galley flawlessly near Dortmund.

IBT: Tiuw on road outside Heidelburg defends workers against BH. Sword w/settler kills BH. Sword in Nuremberg kills BH. All perfectly.
Berlin: settler > library in 8. Treasury warning @ 5g -3gpt.

150 – 5
Sword/settler fortify on mountain: 12BH + 1BW now.
Galley goes red, but sinks a second BG.
Can only get Republic + 2 cities from Joan, but she’s close on the third. We’ll try again next time.
Overall, we have a serious shortage of troops for dealing with the hordes, even though we’re doing well. We’re just spread too thin.

IBT: sword/settler -2 kills 2 BH, promotes to elite. Nuremberg kills 2 BH. Munich: sword > sword in 10. Hannover: settler > pike in 30.
English complete Colossus in Hastings. Gold warning at 4g -2gpt.

170 - 6
Elite sword -2 kills spear, captures Rouen + slave. Rouen > pike in 30. Slave toward Marseilles. Army rests. France won’t give up Chartres yet, so…
Vet & Elite swords in Moscow kill 2 BH with no losses & vet promotes, but both stay in Moscow. Add taxman to Lyons to keep the peace.

IBT: Wayne goes elite killing BH near Moscow. Nuremberg cut off by BW pillaging, goes -2 killing 2 BH. Elite sword settler -1 killing 2BH + 1BW.
Engineering > Invention in 22. Gold warning at 2g -1gpt.
Liz yells at us over a worker in her territory expansion at Canterbury.

190 – 7
MM research to 20% for invention in 40 @ +42gpt.
Army toward Paris / Lyons.
At Tours: Jackson -1 kills spear. Jonesy -1 kills spear, captures 3 slaves, razes Tours.
3 BH killed around Moscow
Vet Sword NE of Nuremberg kills BW on hill w/ no loss & promotes.
France still won’t give up Chartres. Too bad.

IBT: 2 BH die at Nuremberg. 2 BH die to sword/settler.
French archer dies attacking Jackson.
Frankfurt: sword > archer in 4.
English begin HG.

Playing turn 8 now. I will be finishing tomorrow.

Nice work R&L :thumbsup:

We knew the barbs were going to be a PITA, so just do your best. One caution however, try not to run at a deficit (do you think you're the USA :) ), in case the barbs attack a city and win they could empty the treasury (what there is of it) and we'd lose a building on the next turn for lack of support.

@ denyd -> yes, that is true, but imho, we should try to avoid a 40T gambit on invention. i don't think we can wait that long at this point in the game and once you start, it's impossible to recover. imho, it would be better to turn off research for 1 turn, gettting a lump of gold, then researching as fast as possible with a positive influx of gold. 22T is still better than 40T and we can increase this once the barbs go away.
otoh, what is our research goal atm? is invention the right choice or should we go for education? i may have missed something in the discussions so i apologize if this is a dumb question.

I only did the low balance to finish up engineering. I could get engineeing faster, but wanted to build the bank account back up fpr a few quick turns first. THen I'll put it back to something reasonable before passing it on.

I'm obviously going to have to take Chartres by force, being the largest city currently. Then I can sue for the last one + republic. That'll leave Liz for the next better player.

ok, i wasn't trying to nag but, looking thru the thread, we didn't discuss research priorities so, while we're still only 1T into researching engineering, maybe we should discuss.

the early goal was to conquere our continent. imho, in order to do that effectively, we need knights. therefore, we should beeline for that tech, so we can get a leg-up on the English and take them out. iirc, they had some cities so we could use the extra firepower.
just my opinion and all should weigh in if possible :)

I haven't had a chance to check out the save, but do we have enough with swords (& MDI) to take out England?

If we do, then either Engineering and Invention or the top path to Education (of course that will obsolete the GL).

Refresh my memory, has Russia reached the Middle Ages? What tech did she get? Have we got that tech, and if no, can we trade for it and then eliminate Cathy? Are we still in despotism?

I think our goal should probably be to acquire the entire continent and push the tech pace to the maximum while looking for the other island. Once we've got full contacts, we'll have a better picture if they'll be any help on the tech front.

Once we've got the full island secure, we'll probably be reducing military to the $0 cost level and biding our time waiting for Panzers & transports.

I haven't had a chance to check out the save, but do we have enough with swords (& MDI) to take out England?

If we do, then either Engineering and Invention or the top path to Education (of course that will obsolete the GL).

Refresh my memory, has Russia reached the Middle Ages? What tech did she get? Have we got that tech, and if no, can we trade for it and then eliminate Cathy? Are we still in despotism?

I think our goal should probably be to acquire the entire continent and push the tech pace to the maximum while looking for the other island. Once we've got full contacts, we'll have a better picture if they'll be any help on the tech front.

Russia got Fuedalism, our tech. we can kill her off whenever.

If we want the GLib to do something for us, then we should detour to chivalry and get knights. suicide galleys can then try to find the other continent while the knights and supporting swords/MDI overrun England. however, i have the feeling that we are in the tech lead since I haven't seen Sistine's or Leo's started yet.

I think if we really need the knights we have to research cavalry. If MDI is enough to conquer England we should go for invention and then the bottom path. In most cases the AI concentrate on the education path (at least in my games).

I would suggest to skip cavalry, because the knights cost too many shields to build up them quickly. So perhaps we are faster if we upgrade some swords and build some MDI.

Is there any chance that Cathy becomes polite to us during the next two ages?

We are in the tech lead, except England I believe. The only thing the 3 women had to offer was Republic, and neither Cathy nor Liz would sell it at all. Joan wouldn't give Chartres at all, so I'm waiting to take it first, and if I get the army there in time, I'll only get 1 shot. We have many elite swords, but they're spread out, as they've all been promoting from Barb attacks, and we don't have the infrastructure to build quick replacement garrisons. I haven't figured out where yet, but iron must have popped up under a city, as we gained an automatic connection somewhere, and I can't build warriors in the core any more.

Certainly I can switch the research. I also saw nothing in the thread, and so guessed. We could get either muskets or knights in 2 techs, and I chose muskets. Apparently not the preferred move.

Ideally, I'd move all of the workers back to build up the core production further, and concentrate the elite swords. As mentioned, we have BH all over, although attrition is certainly kicking in with them. The best that I've seen out of Liz is an archer - no swords yet.

I forgot, IIRC we were up no techs on Liz.

I would suggest to skip cavalry, because the knights cost too many shields to build up them quickly. So perhaps we are faster if we upgrade some swords and build some MDI.
i personally dislike MDI in the middle ages. knights have speed and speed kills :evil: it also has the benifit of retreats, thus reducing the wars length and number of casualties which keeps ww down. knights can also be upgraded to cav for 20g each so, imho, building them is very worthwhile, even if they cost more and divert us to an optional tech.
MDI are slow, good mostly for suppressing new aquisitions and reinforcing knights when trying to take big cities.

btw, if you can't tell, the knight is one of my favorite units :)

btw, if you can't tell, the knight is one of my favorite units :)

Ok, then lets build knights. We probably need cavalry later. The main reason for the suggestion to use MDI was, that they are cheaper and our territory is not developed very well due to the jungle tiles.

ok, but what's after chivalry. top or bottom part of the tree? both directions have thier +'s and -'s.

Top +'s: get universitys and copernicus to speed up research. sistine's & cathedrals for happiness and banks for money.
Top -'s: AI goes for these techs as well. GLib will become extict, possibly before we even capture it.

bottom +'s: all military tech's up to cav, locate gunpowder, techs trade well for top half of tree, AI does not go for them. can build military academy for army's (will need for capturing the UN or establishing a foothold on the other continent).
bottom -'s: no increase in research/gold accumulation speed via city improvements, all that must be gained by pop increases. only wonder is Leo's.

I'm a big fan of Leo's, because I'd rather use cash for something other than upgrades on the schedule that I need / want it, rather than having to hold a larger reserve for upgrades. Also, keeping the GLib going until we can capture it would be nice. Then we might inadvertently take advantage of Denyd's previously mentioned 'exploit'.

I am fond of knights too, but not over cav, and not at the expense of Leo's.

Then we might inadvertently take advantage of Denyd's previously mentioned 'exploit'.
I am fond of knights too, but not over cav, and not at the expense of Leo's.
i'm not really sure this 'exploit' can realistically be taken advantage of at monarch level (i assume your talking about the tech ladder). the best use is in diety or sid were you can get a good tech boost by giving it away just before education then take it back again when all others are into the IA. emporer and lower the AI just researches too damn slow, especially on any landmass other than pangea.

knights can be built 5 techs before cav and they upgrade cheap (even without leo's) so i have found they are a good investment. cav are certainly superior but those 5 techs are rarely done in 20T unless we have a lot of cities with libraries and upgraded terrain, which we lack right now. imho, chivalry will pay off with speeding up the conquest of this island. we can then pack our land with cities till we're blue in the face, driving up pop and score :) the sooner we get this island, the sooner we can drive up our score.

edit: we can also research chivalry faster than Invention. right now, 22T till invention then another 11T to chivalry is too long. imho, we should just go in the reverse order

Given the previous discussion, I shall take that as a direction, and change the research target when I resume play tonight.

if anybody is playing cotm1, hurry up and finish the AA as denyd submitting a very good post :lol:
anyone not playing should check it out right now :D
looks like bugs has his work cut out for him ;)

210 – 8
vet sword at Besacon kills BH & promotes.
2 BH die at Moscow.
Change research to monotheism in 20 @ +1gpt for 70%. Can push to 80% in a few turns to counter the -3gpt after getting more in the coffers.

IBT: I forgot to mention the French galley that is currently rounding the point near Rouen. English archer kills BH up north.
Nuremburg, Dortmund & Moscow all kill a BH.
Russians ask to trade republic for engineering – no.
Oppeln: library > horse in 8.

230 – 9
2 BH killed near Moscow. 2 BH killed near Dortmund. Troops near to Chartres.

IBT: 5 BH killed near Moscow for loss of 1 elite sword, and 1 vet sword -3 promotes.
French archer from Dijon enters forest near Lyons.
Cologne: settler > horse in 8.

250 – 10
Alphonso -4 kills spear at Chartres. Ernie -1 kills spear & captures Chartres & 2 slaves.
Chartres: > library in 40.
Elite sword flawlessly kills French archer.
Make peace with France for Republic, Dijon, 8g, 1gpt, WM
Dijon: > library in 40.
MM Chartres & Dijon to get both grow in 20.
At Moscow: 4/5 sword -0 kills red BH. Vet sword -1 kills BW & BV, +25g.
2/5 sword -1 kills BH. Settler accompanies.
Adjust research to 80% for Monotheism in 15 @ -3gpt.
Trade WM to England for WM + 4g. Sell WM to Russia for WM + 10g.
<resave to keep MMing that was just done>

Notes to next player:
- Have NOT yet revolted to go to Republic! Leaving for you.
- Berlin to build library in 1. Cologne & Oppeln building horsemen (prebuild knights).
- Note locations of 2 English wonders & 2 wonder builds before launching on them.
- Settler at Moscow was headed 1S to build on ruins.
- Settler SW of Besancon is headed 1S to build on ruins.
- Settler at Nuremburg was headed SE to build new city in jungle & stifle barb camp there (wherever it is).
- Settler NE of Bugsville is headed 1E to build on river. Other spots include on SW bank of river mouth NW of Bugsville, & 5N1NE of Bugsville on corner to get fish & 1 tile island (I hope that French galley doesn’t have a settler headed there.
- French galley may be under fog NW of Marseilles.
- May want to change Bugsville build to library to protect horse nearby from future English town.
- Many units left to move, including settlers, army & swords near Nuremburg & Dortmund.

Score = 616, England = 448, France = 333, Russia = 175
England 14 cities, 42g, up monarchy, down engineering.
Russia 1 city, 1g, down engineering.
France has a worker for sale, but wants Feudalism. HA!

Enjoy!

Here's the save:

I'll pick up the game in the morning. Any input from the team overnight?

Edit - Good news team, we are now in second place behind Team Kuningas.

More happy faces = higher score. Sounds like we need more cities. :D Do we care what language they speak?

nice job R&L. clean closeout of the french affair :)

@bugs -> we need to do something about research and money so markets and libraries for all. actually, we should also seriously consider pulling back as many workers as possible so the core tiles are upgraded as this will help the most right now. good luck and i hope england doesn't mess-up our pretty score :D

I have the game now.

G-man - I agree. Markets everywhere (lots of smiling faces) and libraries to speed research.

Nice set R&L :)

Yes lets clear the jungle tiles and build up a nice infrastructure.

As far as I know we have no jungle around Hannover,
at least I cannot see jungle tiles if I open my windows, only a few trees ;)
but if I look at the civ map....

Excellent turns RowAndLive :thumbsup:

I agree with Grahamiam about libraries & marketplaces, but we also need to keep producing settlers, there is quite a bit of dirt still to occupy and any land we own is a place where new barbarians won't be spawning.

We should have enough swords (33) to take on England, although it would be better to upgrade all the Veterans to MDI if we have the cash. Considering the terrain, I don't think knights are really going to help much except for retreats.

I don't have access to the game and couldn't find any mention in the last two pages, but did anyone start Sun Tzu or the Heroic Epic?

As for Russia, as long as she remains a single city, there's no reason not to keep her around until the Industrial Age to get her bonus tech before eliminating her. France on the other hand should go as soon as the peace treaty is up. Probably a chance to do a little leader farming.

At this point I don't see any need to go for Chivalry, we should be able to take England out (ableit slowly) with the existing troops (upgraded to MDI).

As I see it, our short term (next 30 turns) goals should be:

1. Assimilation of England
2. Elimination of France
3. Fill in the balance of the island with cities
4. Complete the terrain improvements for the core cities
5. Research Monotheism, Invention, Gunpowder & Chemistry
6. Building Marketplaces, Libraries & Harbors
7. Get 2-3 galleys out searching for the other continent
8. Pre-build for Leo's Workshop & Sistine Chapel
9. Revolt to Republic (fighting during anarchy is not a bad thing)
10. Build Sun Tzu & Heroic Epic (if not yet completed)

Note: That with the wonders we've taken and will take soon, then first wonder we build will probably start the German Golden Age, so let's be sure to be in Republic when that happens.

It is good to have a citizen available for input. What tile do you work Leibniz? Can you tell us when WW will get too high and if you feel like rioting? Are you a happy, content, or unhappy citizen? :D

I think we rushed Sun Tzu with a leader.

Denyd - I like your thinking. My plan is to concentrate on settlers from Berlin, markets first everywhere else. Revolt to Republic. Two pre-builds. And find the other continent.

Now that you mention it, I think the Sun Tzu rush was one of mine turns. :lol:

Too many games (3 as the Germans right now) to keep it all straight.

New plan:

Build a lot of Three Man Chariots and run over the Sumerians or should it be lots of Gallic Swordsmen to attack Persia before X-man gets Immortals?

I sooooo confused :crazyeye:

It is good to have a citizen available for input. What tile do you work Leibniz? Can you tell us when WW will get too high and if you feel like rioting? Are you a happy, content, or unhappy citizen? :D

I'm content at the moment, but luxuries can easily be connected: If I open the icebox I can see a few bottles of beer, this should make me happy :) , if too many then :crazyeye:


I agree to the previous posts, lets research Monoth., then the bottom line. We should revolt asap, consolidate our troops and attack England. We can do this while we are in Anarchy. When we are in Republik, then of course a prebuild of Sistine. We probably also want to have Heroic epic for leader farming.

well, let's see how England handles the 33 swords. if they fold, then forget chivalry. however, looking at the terrain, i still feel knights are worthwhile. but i've whined enough about that already. i think everyone know how i feel :)

edit: let me qualify that statement. looking at the map, if knights came from Kiev, we could get 4 towns (including Canterbury, York, Coventry, and London) in about 2 or 3 turns, thus breaking Englands back very quickly. Swords will take at least 7-8T

If we can take the last English city with our last swordsman, I'd be happy.

Once England & France are gone, I'm in favor of moving our elites to guard Russia and slowly retiring all the swords & warriors. Each coastal city should have a single pikeman for defense and the cities around Russia would also each have a pike. That would reduce unit support costs and allow for faster research. At some point those pikes would become muskets and eventually infantry. I wouldn't build another land unit until Panzers became available.

As to reserch, the only optional techs I'm in favor of are Economics (Smith's) and Music Theory (Bach's). The cost savings of Smith's and the happiness of Bach's warrant the diversion from the Industrial Age goal. We should be able to trade for any other optional techs we might want later using Steam Power as bait.

Russia is the only scientific tribe in the game, so if we get the Industrial Age first, we should be well setup for victory :clap:

nice job R&L. clean closeout of the french affair :)

Thanks for the compliment! You may want to be stingy with your use of the a-word. We don't wants Bugsy spending his days daydreaming about Izzy, Joan or Cleo...

Preflight – 250 AD – We have 33 swords, but a lot are on garrison duty. I’ll set up a zone defense on a lot of these.

We have Joan just where we want her. Stuck in Grenoble out on the Tundra.

We’re not at war with England yet, but we need to gather our forces, Plus some upgrades.

I still have some movement on units. Follow R & L’s settler instructions.

Overthrow the government and get a four-turn anarchy. We have mostly happy people, hire one clown to keep Nuremburg happy.

Diplo Check – Cathy is already up to annoyed. Lizzy will give us a gpt deals for Engineering, but I hold off on that one. I have another idea on how to get her money. :devil2:

1. 260 AD – Found Denydberg southwest of Besancon. Hunt a few barbs. Start moving troops towards England.

IBT – Barbs attack a sword (redlined) settler pair southeast of Moscow and destroy it.

2. 270 AD – Kill a barb camp by Denydberg. Found RowandLivezig. :D

3. 280 AD – Found Grahamiamfurt

IBT – The Republic of Germany is founded.

The Honorable Bugs T. Meister is elected first Prime Minister.

4. 290 AD – Here’s something interesting. As I’m reorganizing our cities, I realize that MDIs are not available to us.

I rename New Berlin to Leibnizgart. Now Leibniz, as our only German member, please feel free to rename any of these cities that have been named after team members to something that makes sense in German.

Shift over several builds to markets. Have to drop science to 40% to have positive cash flow.

England has a lot of culture, we’ll meet some resistance in during the war. Maybe even some flips.

IBT – Kill about four BH, some barb galleys approach our galley… time for a suicide run.
Berlin: Library=>settler
5. 300 AD – Found madbaxburg. Start a suicide run to the east.

AHHHH! I remember the island to our northeast. :smoke:
Spend 80G rushing a galley in Dortmund. Change Oppeln to a palace pre-build.

IBT – We kill a few more attacking barbs
Dortmund: Galley=>galley
Galley sinks.

6. 310 AD – The Berlin settler factory is now back on track. Several of our French cities find that there isn’t enough Brie to go around.

IBT – Leipzig: Sword=>market
Bonn: warrior=> worker

7. 320 AD – Checking with our diplomatic advisor, the best unit the English have is the archer. The best unit the Russians have is the worker. We are strong compared to the English.

First I dial up Elizabeth. She now has Monotheism. I sell her Engineering for Monotheism, 78G & WM. Then I declare war on her. Start marching on English cities.

Kill a wandering English warrior.

IBT – Kill a few more barbs.
Berlin: settler=>settler
Salzburg: warrior=>worker

8. 330 AD - @ leeds – Ernie attacks and…

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Leader_at_Leeds.jpg

The leader heads back to Germany. Leeds is autorazed with the next attack.

Coventry has a pike. :rolleyes:

Reading is autorazed and we capture a slave.

We attack at Norwich but our sword is killed.

I imagine we will want to use the leader for an FP, but where. I’ll stop here and get the team’s option.

Great start Bugs :clap:

Probably somewhere in northern France would work for the FP.

Another option is to put it next to Berlin and perform a palace jump to the other island later in the game. That would reduce corruption on the entire island.

I was thinking either in France or to the northwest of Berlin. Ideally, we would want to build it in England, but that may take a while.

I'll wait on the last two turns until tomorrow morning to give everyone a chance to voice their opinion. Leibniz you can count on having the game no later than 18:00 GMT. What's that about 19:00 or 20:00 in Hannover time?

i agree that the ideal place is in england but that may not be feasible atm. place near former russia and france, close to england imho. if we want to move it with the next leader, we can abanodon the FP city.

nice start to the war. they probably used that gold to upgrade spears to pikes which should make life more difficult. MDI's are going to be needed. good thing we have sun's :)

good luck :thumbsup:

So maybe something in the area of Paris or Moscow.

BTW - No MDIs, mad bax must have made sure that this is as close to vanilla as possible.

Leibniz you can count on having the game no later than 18:00 GMT. What's that about 19:00 or 20:00 in Hannover time?

Very nice turns, Bugsy.

Not so nice that we have no MDI available. Hope Liz has not too many pikes.

It is 3.30 PM here at the moment. You should see at my post your time. So we can count the time difference.

some barb galleys approach our galley… time for a suicide run.

That was the intention of building the galley, but not East.

AHHHH! I remember the island to our northeast.

Glad to see that I'm not the only one to notice that. I took it from M-B's (s)instructions that we weren't supposed to comment on things we noticed in the spoiler thread, though. THe artificial blacking on a mimimap just doesn't look the same as fog...

I sell her Engineering for Monotheism, 78G & WM. Then I declare war on her. Start marching on English cities.


Bugsy, what did you change research to at this point? I'm bummed about losing the settler pair S of Moscow. I hadn't seen any other BH close enought to strike before we could have built the new town, and the bank account was low enough to take a hit in an undeveloped town. Lastly, is that a French settler pair in the graphic, or just mil units? Did they come from the French galley, or did it go elsewhere?

BTW - No MDIs, mad bax must have made sure that this is as close to vanilla as possible.
oops, guess that lets me get up on my soapbox and cry for knights again :lol:

shame on us, who wanted to use MDI instead of knights :(

shame on us, who wanted to use MDI instead of knights :(all's not lost. 33 swords is a lot to throw at a monarch level AI. plus, we have an army that we can use to pop the pike on top, then let the swords handle the (hopefully) spears underneath. just attack in numbers that are overwhelming. slow but effective, and will require MM'ing the lux tax.

On the island to the northeast, I had seen it the last time I played.

On science - I started Invention, cause I thought we wanted to go for Leo's.

On the settler pair south of Moscow - the barb horses came out of the fog. There was no way you would have seen them coming. With raging barbs, things can be difficult at times.

On French settler pair - Not a settler pair. It is two spears wandering the countryside. They have been walking around for most of my turn. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to where they are going. Just two lost souls out for a stroll. The French galley sailled home. I haven't see it since it went into port.

I think we'll be able to get Joan and Cathy happy with us again. Cathy is already up to annoyed. That will be two votes we'll need for the UN.

a simple question, but what do we need to upgrade with leo's? no MDI's therefore no guerilla's. knights-cav =20g, not exactly expensive, ditto rifles to infantry. musket to infantry or rifles is expensive but if we own the continent, why build them? we can hold off barb hords with swords just fine.

maybe the prebuild should go for sistine's or copernicus (assuming the AI on the other continent actually keeps up with our research).

I like the idea for the Sistine Chapel. More happy people. More happy people = higher score.

I like the idea for the Sistine Chapel. More happy people. More happy people = higher score.
and copernicus will give us our GA :eek: this may work to our advantage, especially getting a 50% boost to research in our favorite city and a GA.

Yes I think Sistine is very important for our score. But it only applies to the cities with a cathedral. Therefore we should also think about Bachs later.

Copernicus is also a must I think. We want to have a well timed GA and also the science boost.

Nice work so far Bugsy :salute:
Just to get a couple of things straight in my head:

1. We've decided to let France & Russia live and will be making nice with them from now on
2. We are at war with England, won't have MDI's, so it's swords vs pikes & spears
3. Researching to Invention - Longbows hit as hard as knights and are lots cheaper, so who needs knights :)
4. After Invention, go for Theology and have a pre-build ready for Sistine

A couple of questions:

1. Should we keep England's final city alive or eliminate her?
2. If we happen to get a GL, should we save him for Leo's or is there a better choice?
3. After reserch of Theology, what's next? (I vote for Education)
4. Any galleys out looking for the rest of the tribes?
5. Is there a particular target (iron/horses) in England we should be aiming for?

BTW: for those who enjoyed my AA write up in the CGOTM1, look for a cameo by our fearless leader in MA segment :D

3. Researching to Invention - Longbows hit as hard as knights and are lots cheaper, so who needs knights :)
:sigh: alright, i give up. pointy sticks with flat-foots it is :( in my mind, 1 knight is worth more than 3 or 4 longbows so they are cheaper but, in this game, I see the English folding before we ever need the longbow or knights anyways.

330 AD – IBT – The English drop off a settler pair in the north. We survive two BH attacks, although our swords are both redlined.
Munich: Sword=>market

9. 340 AD – Kill the archer that has stepped next to Bugsville.

We have 19 shields in vested in a library at Paris. Decide to rush the library for 84G. We’ll build the FP next turn with the leader.

Upgrade a vet warrior to a sword.

IBT – We successfully defend against a warrior attacking maxbaxburg, and two attacking barb horses in the north. England builds a city northwest of Bonn. We lose a sword outside Coventry.
Paris: Library=>FP
Frankfurt: Library=>horse
Stuttgart: sword=>sword

10. 350 AD – Hengest builds the FP in Paris.

Whack two barb camps for 25G each. Move troops to the front.

@ Canterbury: Cat fails to hit anything. The is a reg pike on top, use the sword army to kill it (-3hp)
Elite sword Paine takes out spear (no loss)
Elite sword Wayne is killed by a spear (-2hp)
Elite sword Sam kills the spear and takes the city. Seven resisters, three slaves, start building a market.
Whack the English archer SE of Canterbury.


Save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Bugsy_SG002_AD0350_01.SAV

We’re now in third place.

After Action: If our galley survives the barb attack, head north along the island.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM2_Bugs_Exploration.jpg

I would leave some units outside Canterbury as it is a flip risk. We have several units heading towards the front, but we’ll need some roads to speed their advance.

We probably need to consolidate our forces before advancing further into England.

Probably want to research Chivalry next. I started building some horses for upgrade. I agree with G-man. We need the retreat capability.

London has the Great Library so we want to avoid Education. I would research Chivalry, Theology, then the rest of the lower branch to cavs.

Leibniz – Up
Denyd – On deck
G-man
R & L
Bugs – Just played

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM2_Bugs_-_350_AD.jpg

So we're going to skip knights, and hope we don't need any offensive capability until cav, building them cold? Knights are much faster, have a better defense, and can retreat, taking less casualties. Besides, we're playing with LB's in DD01, and no knights there. I don't think that we'll need them on this continent much either, but in the event that amphibious ops are a possibility, then knights would be better for a zonal counter-force, rather than needing to keep our troop count up. Of course, the possibilities of that are low.

I think we should go for Chivalry after Invention. If I didn't have my head stuck in certain bodily orifaces, I would have gone for Chivalry when I got Monotheism. But I didn't. My mistake.

By taking York before London, we can get the capital in the SW corner of their territory, minimizing the flip risk to Canterbury (previously their largest city), and allowing us to strike in the Northern section of this area (not up North) with low fears of flipping. Things, change, so keep your eyes on the size as you target cities. It's kind of nice that their most productive cities were close to us.

By taking York before London, we can get the capital in the SW corner of their territory, minimizing the flip risk to Canterbury (previously their largest city), and allowing us to strike in the Northern section of this area (not up North) with low fears of flipping. Things, change, so keep your eyes on the size as you target cities. It's kind of nice that their most productive cities were close to us.
what is our civ culture vs. the english? i know they have the GLib but we may be on par with them. from what I can see, besides London, they only have 5 or 6 cities with any sort of culture at all. Looks like those 5 have less than 100cp as well (only 1 expansion of the border). If we are close to even with them, the flip risk should be low. Just suppress with as many troops as possible on the 1st turn, then keep 1 or 2 units in town healing if on the front lines. if behind us, just them them sit and stew empty till after we take the last english town.

Very nice, Bugsy.

For the culture flips, we should starve the former English cities down to 1 pop.

Got the file.

For the culture flips, we should starve the former English cities down to 1 pop.

agreed. we also don't get any points for foreign citizens. good luck :thumbsup:

They have about 10% more culture than we do, the number of resisters was a good indication.

This war is very slowly. First I consolidated our troops, because I wanted to attack the pikes with huge enough stack. Bugsy said I should give the cities, named after team members more German names, ok, I have done so: Bugsville > Bugsdorf, Leibnizgart > Leibnizgarten, RowandLivehausen, Bad Grahamiam (Bad does not mean what it means in English).

T0: MM Berlin

IBT: Our galley destroys barb galley. 2 English sword attack 2 German swords at Coventry, one dies. French spear and sword approach Denydburg.

T1: Paris FP > Market, fortify a few units to let them heal. Move two swords to Denydburg, we do not want to loose towns of team members. Science to 60.

IBT: Sword kills BH.

T2: Berlin Settler > Settler. Avignon pike > pike. Jefferson attack a spear and dies. Another sword attacks this spear and enslaves two workers. Payne attacks reg sword and kills him. Another vet sword attacks reg spear at Norwich and kills him.

IBT: Archer kills sword at Norwich.

T3: Rheims pike > pike.Dortmund galley > galley. Our vet sword is killed by a reg sword. Two other of our sword kill reg spear and reg sword. Our galley in Dortmund destroys a barb galley. Liz has Theology.

T4: Kiev Lib > Market. Two of our swords kill reg spears. This is a cleaning up. Science to 50.

T5: Moscow Lib > Market. Heidelberg sword > sword. Hannover pike > pike. madbax warrior > warrior. 2 suicide galleys lost :(
New Berlin founded > warrior. 2 of our vet sword kill two English reg swords.

IBT: English sword kills one of our vet swords. Russia approaches our territory. I will move a few troops.

T6: Berlin Settler > Settler. Also a pike and a worker come in. Try to consolidate our troops and bzuild a stack with enough units.

IBT: English sword attacks our pike and dies. Elite sword kills BH and BW.

T7: Kreuzberg Granary > worker.Frankfurt Horse > Horse. Also a pike, lib and worker come in. Two of our elite swords kill 2 reg swords. Another vet sword kills an English reg sword and promotes.

IBT: Invention comes in. Cav at 60 in 6. Japanese complete Great Lighthouse.

T8: Attack on York: Catapult fails. Army kills pike and redlines. 3 battles against reg spears: We have lost one Elite sword. Clean up: Our vet sword kills another reg sword. I have to add a few scientists due to WW.

IBT: Two English swords attack two of our swords, one dies.

T9: Cologne Market > Leonardo. 2 Lib's, one horse.

IBT: English build HG, Sistine.

T10: Berlin Settler > Settler, 2 libs, one galley, also a pike and a worker come in. Attack at Newcastle: vet sword kills reg spear, reg sword dies against a reg spear, but redlines him. Next turn we should take the city.
Attack at Coventry: Alphonso dies. Another elite sword kills the pike.Dafy kills reg spear> Coventy captured. Cleaning up: We kill 3 English swords.

The save:
SAVE (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Bugsy_SG002_AD0450_01.SAV)

I Think we dont need a screenshot, not very much new to see. We should let the army heal and then use the troops in Coventry and York to attack London.

Another remark: On this discussed landmass NE of our territory are only barbs, so I went with the galley East.

Nice turn set Leibniz :salute:

Question about this line:

IBT: Invention comes in. Cav at 60 in 6. Japanese complete Great Lighthouse.

What's Cav at 60 in 6??

Also

IBT: English build HG, Sistine

Does that mean they finished them or started them?

I'm also thinking with Lizzy having Theology, let's keep going along the bottom tech tier and get Theology from her in the peace settlement.

Looks like I'm up. I should be able to get this one and Grahamiam 1.0 done tonight (looks like Mursilis will need to wait another day before resuming his trip to Alpha Centauri).

I posted a couple of questions earlier and never got responses and now that I'm up, I'll post them again (edited for current conditions):

Just to get a couple of things straight in my head:

1. We've decided to let France & Russia live and will be making nice with them from now on
2. We are at war with England, won't have MDI's, so it's swords vs pikes & spears
3. We should try to get Theology from England in the Peace Treaty
4. Have a pre-build ready for Sistine

A couple of questions:

1. Should we keep England's final city alive or eliminate her?
2. If we happen to get a GL, should we save him for Leo's or Sistine or is there a better choice?
3. What to research? (my vote Gunpowder & Chemistry)
4. Is there a particular target (iron/horses) in England we should be aiming for?

[dance] HG is very nice for score. thanks 'liz :)

good set Leibniz, hopefully denyd can keep up the momentum.

Question about this line:

IBT: Invention comes in. Cav at 60 in 6. Japanese complete Great Lighthouse.

What's Cav at 60 in 6??


It means Cavalry at 60% in 6 turns.



IBT: English build HG, Sistine

Does that mean they finished them or started them?



They started them.

How can we be reserching Cavalry? Do you mean Chivalry? (knights will make Grahamiam soooo happy :D )

To Denyd's questions:

I don't know if we should keep England alive. This is better discussed by more experinced players as me.

I don't think that Leonardo is very important for us. In my opinion a leader should rush Sistine or Bachs.

After Chivalry we should research the bottom path.

England has 2 or 3 sources of iron in the west of their territory.

Ok Chivalry, edited :mischief: (I know my English could be better)

Nicely done, Leibniz! English down their next largest city, :hammer: and galleys scouring the horizon...

My vote would be to take Liz out if we get her techs by some other means, or knock her to one, trade for tech, and then exterminate in 20, the same as with Joan. As far as the leader, Sistine is usually more of a race, try F7, but use the leader for whichever costs more shields, and get the cheaper with a prebuild. Then again, given the previous somments on Copernicus, maybe that in our best science city would be the best thing...

A couple of questions:

1. Should we keep England's final city alive or eliminate her?
2. If we happen to get a GL, should we save him for Leo's or Sistine or is there a better choice?
3. What to research? (my vote Gunpowder & Chemistry)
4. Is there a particular target (iron/horses) in England we should be aiming for?
imho:
1. kill her if convenient. i suspect WW will stop us thought.
2. GL for sistine's or copernicus (but this goes against item #3)
3. your call but i think we can go to astronomy and then back down the lower half before the AI reaches Astro or chemistry
4. eliminination or castration, either will do :) i think the army will be needed for london. after that, you can send him down to knock out those resources. as for the war, whatever you don't finish, i will :)

russian can hang around but the french shouldn't get that luxury.

(I know my English could be better)

Your English is MUCH better than my German, although I've been working on being able to read it for genealogy!!!

I think he means Chivalry.

We might want to consider the Heroic Epic with a leader. In Bede's SG, we were able to dramatically increase our leader production. Since we're militaristic we would have an 8 in 1 chance of a leader with every elite win.

I think we should play nice with Cathy and Joan until they get some more cities. :devil2:

I would :hammer: Liz for a while and then get Theology for peace and build the Sistine Chapel with our pre-build. Don't go for peace until we get London and the Great Library.

I'd put some coastal lookouts up. The Japanese might sail by sometime soon.

Oh yes, I think Bugsy is right. Heroic Epic will probably pay off. More leaders means more rushed wonders.

And we have a lot of elite units. If we want to build Heroic Epic without rushing we should do this in the most productive city Cologne.

BTW, I'm also a big fan of Copernicus.

Either is fine with me. I've never used HE myself, and so am unfamiliar with how it works.

The more I think about it, the better to make this war with England last. More GL chances for our elites. Heroic Epic is a good idea. While I like Leo's & Sistine, I'm more partial to Bach's and Smith's on a map like this. Copernicus is a cheap wonder (shield cost) compared to the others and would be better hand built unless we end up with a idle GL.

THE SAVE (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Bugsy_SG002_AD0550_01.SAV)

Turn Log 4

Turn 0 – 450 AD - Reset to personal preferences – Upgrade Patton to a Sword – add Vet Sword to Sword Army – Wake the 2 workers and send them to connect Nuremberg & Heidelberg – Change Nuremberg to a settler – MM Berlin to get back on 4-turn track – Switch Oppelin to Heroic Epic (due in 17) – Wake Elite Sword (now named Shultz) and send him to English front – Wake Pike and send him to Paris – Wake solo worker and add to worker stack

IBT: Vet Horse (3/5) defends against attacking sword and promotes – Joan wants to extend Peace treaty, why not – French sword kills a BH – BH approaches RowandLivehausen – Lyons library->pike – Rheims pike->library – Avignon pike->library – Bremen pike->courthouse –

Turn 1 – 460 AD – Cat hits Reg Archer – Sam (4/5) kills Reg Archer – Prescott (3/5) kills BH and promotes - Elite Sword approaches Norwich – Slider to 70% to reduce research to 2 turns – Army rests – Patton goes barb hunting – England will talk peace (and give up a city but no tech yet

IBT: Elite Sword (2/5) defends against Reg Sword – Bugsdorg pike->library

Turn 2 – 470 AD – Cat hits Reg Archer – Elite sword (5/5) kills Reg Archer – Elite Sword (1/5) kills Reg Archer – Vet Sword (3/4) kills Reg Spear and Newcastle with 2 slaves is taken – Switch Kiev to a courthouse (too much corruption) – Elite Sword (2/5) kills Reg Spear and Norwich auto-razes – Slider to 5-5-0

IBT: No English movements – French sword kills a BV – Galley (4/4) defeats attacking BG and promotes – Discover Chivalry research Gunpowder at 50% due in 9 - Hanover pike->library – Stuttgart sword->pike – Palace Expansion adds a right wing to our little home

Turn 3 – 480 AD – Settler founds Milwaukee – Build a stack of 5 Elite SW, 3 Vet SW, 1 Elite Horse, 1 Cat & 1 Army for London – Prescott (3/5) kills a BV – Trade Monotheism to Russia for 109g + WM – France is broke drat

IBT: Lizzy comes to talk, but says nothing we want to hear – Berlin settler->settler – Nuremberg settler->warrior

Turn 4 – 490 AD – SOD advances on London – Elite Sword (5/5) kills BH – Galley survives 1st turn at sea and we meet Japan – Japan lacks Currency & Construction to leave AA, has communication with India & China – Trade Currency + TM to Japan for contact with India + TM – India is in the Middle Ages – Trade Monotheism to India for WM + 6g + Contact with China – China is in Middle Ages with Monotheism

IBT: Pike (4/4) defends against Reg Sword – Elite Sword (5/5) defends against BW – Newcastle ends resistance and riot – Dijon pike->market – New Berlin Warrior->Warrior – Madmaxberg warrior->library – Galley sinks in sea of Japan –

Turn 5 – 500 AD – SOD moves on London – Workers road – more swords heading for the front – settlers with escorts heading for spots – Switch Dortmund to a settler – check around and nothing to deal

IBT: Regular Sword (1/3) defends in Konigsberg against Reg Archer – Paris market->settler

Turn 6 – 510 AD – SOD reaches London – Elite Sword (4/5) kills BV

IBT: Spot Japanese Galley near where Norwich was , time to sell contacts – Avignon library->market – Bonn worker->worker

Turn 7 – 520 AD – Assault on London:
Cat hits pike (3/4)
Elite Sword (3/5) kills Vet Spear
Vet Sword (2/4) kills Reg Pike
Vet Sword losses to Vet Pike (1/4)
Elite Sword losses to Reg Spear (1/3)
Elite Sword (1/5) kills Reg Spear and Horsa (GL) is born
Vet Sword (1/4) kills Reg Spear
Vet Sword losses to Reg Pike (2/4) who promotes
Elite Sword (4/5) kills Vet Pike
Elite Horse losses to Reg Spear (2/3)
Elite Sword losses to Reg Spear (2/4) who promotes
Bert’s Army (7/14) kills Vet Spear and London with Great Library and 1 slave is captured – Settler founds Bratwurstville – Settler founds Sauerbraten – Vet Warrior (3/4) kills BW
- Switch Hamburg to courthouse – WW to 40% on lux slider – have to decrease science

IBT: One English Sword appears – Lots of BH/BW/BG moving around – Great Library supplies Monarchy – Berlin settler->settler – Moscow & Kruezberg riot :blush: - Rheims library->knight – Dortmund settler->library – Leibnizgarten riots (we are at 40% lux)

Turn 8 – 530 AD – Switch Cologne to Hanging Gardens – Cat hits Reg Sword - Vet Sword (3/5) kills Reg Sword and promotes – Settler founds Wienerschnitzel – Elite Sword (3/5) kills BH – Trade Chivalry to India for 22gpt + 58g + WM

IBT: Another English sword shows up - Restistance in London ends and it riots – Lyons pike->marketplace – Chartres library->pike

Turn 9 – 540 AD – Evict French forces from our land (a spear was next to a undefended Denydberg - Cat hits Reg Sword – Make the executive decision to use Horsa for Leo’s Workshop, so I can attack with other elites – Elite Sword (5/5) kills Reg Sword

IBT: Elite Sword (4/5) defends against Reg Sword – Paris Settler->knight – Kiev builds Leonardo’s Workshop and we enter a Golden Age – Munich market->knight – Heidelberg sword->market – Marseilles library->market – Palace Expansion and now we have a left wing and spires

Turn 10 – 550 AD – Assault on Warwick:
Max Elite Sword (2/5) kills Reg Pike and Warwick is ours – Vet Sword (1/4) kills Reg LB – Avignon starts a pre-build for Sistine Chapel – Fukishima has shown up NW of Bugsdorf

Notes: Take Daffy to join with Bert’s Army (giving 1 army + 1 Cat + 2 Elite Swords) for Hastings – 2 Elite + 2 Vet Swords heading to Nottingham – 2 Swords next to Dover – 2 Healthy + 1 redlined heading for Birmingham – Settler N of Bremen with Prescott is in a good spot – 2 Settlers heading S – BV SE of Wienerschnitzel & SE of Milwaukee – Avignon has a pre-build for Sistine going – Oppelin will complete Heroic Epic in 3 and Cologne will finish Hanging Gardens in 13 (both during the Golden Age) – Probably need a settler to cover the ruins NW of Paris – really on 2-3 good spots left to the north, so most settlers should start going south – England ready to give up Theology, but I don’t think we are yet.

Score: 1027

I had hoped to add a couple of pictures but the uploads are running slow tonight.

Very nice turns, Denyd :goodjob:

I have made a few screenies for better discussion and also checked some things. We get Theology the next turn from the Great Lib. Also more important as settlers I think at the moment are more workers. We need to clear the jungle tiles. Our territory is not well developed. The next leader should rush Sistine. We get Heroic Epic in 3 turns, so we can expect to get more leaders, since we have many elite swords.

Our territory

Japan territory

India and China

Edit - Removed picture, since Leibniz has done such a nice job.

We'll need to watch the WW. Maybe it is time to give the English war a 20 turn break and come back in 200 years with knights or cavs.

I think maybe take Hastings and Nottingham and then get peace.

Denyd - That was a very well played set of turns. Great job with the trades with the new contacts. I'm very glad to see that we have continued to research, even though we have the GL. Good news on the GA. Another reason I think we ought to get peace, time to pump up infrastructure.

Further thoughts - Leibniz is quite right about the workers. I would leave Berlin as a settler pump since we still have a lot of land to fill in, the would set up a few worker factories, maybe Paris and Frankfurt.

Roster Check:

Denyd - Just finished a great set
G-man - Up
R & L - On Deck
Bugs
Leibniz

We should also take a shot at getting Dover (3 swords on the way and probably only defended by spears) and Birmingham (2 swords against spears). Add those two to Hastings & Nottingham and we'd leave Lizzy with 3 cities and no iron. We can probably get at least one of the cities for peace. We should probably send the elites to what's left of France (if we've decided Joanie must go).

I agree completly with the need for more workers. We should try to organize the workers we've got into teams of 3 natives or 6 slaves, so as not to waste workers turns.

I just realized two things, I never traded French/English/Russia contact to any one on the other island. If the Japanese hasn't made those contacts yet, we should probably sell them for whatever we can get before he meets them.
The other thing was that I just turned over an SG to G-man during a Golden Age with a war going on (look out Lizzy :D ).

Heroic Epic is due in 3 and Hanging Gardens during the next turn set. With a few pre-builds and proper planning we should have all the remaining wonders (except the UN).

Just a question, anybody interested in skipping the directed victory condition and running over the other island with Cavalry (domination or conquest win) ?

Just a question, anybody interested in skipping the directed victory condition and running over the other island with Cavalry (domination or conquest win) ?

I wouldn't mind that. It seems we are ahead of them science-wise. We could just roll over them, although we'll need a bunch of Galleons. If we want to do that we need to start building some galleys now.

Very nice job, Denyd!!! :D

I thought that you may not have traded those contacts, since you didn't follow up in your notes.
I'd definitely include Dover on the hit parade.

From looking at the maps (Thanks, Leibniz!), it's interesting to see China's huge cities next to India's obviously high-culture cities, with India holding it's own. I don't think that htey can get a big city to flip their way, but it'll be interesting to watch. That probably means that Chittagong will probably not flip away up North either, even though they're surrounded. Any idea on how Japan is faring in the points?

Last question, I can't quite make out the color of the city EEENE of the Russians, but I'm guessing that it is ours?

R&L, it's ours. There are the 7 English cities in the west (4 soon to be ours), 1 Russian and 2 French. Once we take the four English towns no one will have horses or iron. We'll need to monitor to see if any of them get saltpeter.

Japan is the weak sister over there. A landing of 15-20 cavalry on the iron hill next to Edo would probably take the country in 4-5 turns. That appears to be their only source of iron. They've got a nice choke point to block off any Indian intervention.

Once we get peace with England and the infrastructre building is done, we should unhook the iron and start pumping out horses in all the non-worker building cities. We'll need Astronomy (caravels) to get their safely.

I'm proposing chemistry, metallurgy and military tradition, hopefully India will contribute Education to our cause, then Astronomy(caravels), Physics, Magnetism (Galleons), Banking & Economics (just love that Smith's) and Music Theory (Bach's for the happy people we'll need during the wars), after those techs, we probably won't need any more science, unless we feel the need for railroads.

If there's no penalty for a palace move this game, we might think about using one of the future GL's for a palace move to Japan. It would reduce the flip risk in India (if we're keeping cities) and probably reduce corruption on the home island.

Is M-B allowing a palace jump in this game? I don't remember.


Maybe after pacifying our own continent, we should just sit back, and be peaceful, and gift everyone techs and luxuries. Then we'd all get along. Can't we all just get along? ;)

wow, a GA and we're a 300lb gorilla in republic! i'm gonna look at the save real hard to see what to do next. imho, the war is over after we get the next 2 cities. all the others will take too long with flatfoots and we could use a break from the WW to accelerate our research and slim down the military.

i run over the ai all the time so conquest is fine to me. getting a UN vote would be ok too but we need a presence on the other continent so taking out Japan 1st would be the way to go. you guys decide and i'll go along for the ride :)

re: city rank palace exploit: we're better than that. i vote we don't do it, even if it's allowed. we can pack cities around the FP or something like that but getting Japan and then moving the palace over there with no cities around it is bogus. we can deal with culture flips the old fashoned way, by starving and then pumping the pop back up.

I like that plan for my normal GOTM games, but that's probably why I'm not finishing in the top 20 anymore. To score near the top of the heap, you need to reach the domination limit ASAP, then grow happy population until you reach your desired victory condition. Since we are in this for the competition, that's probably what we need to think about. Our island is pretty much under our control, though 6-8 settlers are still needed and we've got about 8 towns to acquire from the AI. Once that is complete, we'll probably be about 50-55% of the dirt. We need that other 10% and most of Japan will get us to that limit. Besides they were kind of uppity planting that city on our island, so that mus be taught a lesson, never mess with the big dog :nono:

Our short term plans as I see them are:

1. Take those 4 English cities and sue for peace hoping for at least another city
2. Research Gunpowder->Chemistry->Metallurgy
3. Add libraries & marketplaces to all productive cities (aqueducts if needed)
4. Settle remaining territory
5. Lots of workers to clear jungle/forest, mine/irrigate & road our empire
6. With war over, unhook iron and build lots of horsemen in productive cities (about 25-30)
7. Have coastal cites start producing galleys (need 8-10) for caravel upgrade

Long term

Once the home island is completely settled, cavalry loaded caravels depart for Japan. Land on the Japanese iron and pillage it (no more Samurai), then conquer them completely. Using the elite swords for the local city (leader farming). Send the caravels back to pick up the remaining elite swords for leader farming against weak Japanese units. If no penalty, move the Palace to Nagasaki and develop (libraries/markets & terrain).

At this point we need to take a vote a decide conquest/domination or UN. Until then I see no reason to make the decision.

Research along the bottom tier until Military Tradition, then trading with India to move along the top tier. Shooting for Smith's, Bach's, Newton's & Copernicus (yes Magellan's would be nice, but not that necessary). Depending on the final goal, into the Industrial Age shooting for Universal Suffrage & Hoover and planning on TOE for Radio & Fission. Since we need to capture the UN to fulfill the requirement, we'll probably want to gift India (our probably opponent) all the way to current tech, while setting up MPP's with the remaining AI. A declaration against India, an overwhelming Cavalry/Tank thrust to the UN city, a vote and it's on to SGOTM3 :clap:

Edit: Cross post with G-Man, there's a couple of swords destined to reach those other 2 cities at the same time we reach Nottingham, so why not try for these 2 also (Dover & Birmingham), we might be able to get Brighton or Liverpool (or both) in the peace settlement that way.

ok, I will try to get those other cities. usually, i post something before playing and then 1 turn into it everything changes :lol:

Election Results:

Conquest: G-man, Denyd, Bugs
UN: R & L
Undecided: Leibniz

first, the 650AD save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugsy_SG002_AD0650_01.SAV)

Preflight check: Trade: France, her WM & 24g for our WM; everybody else is broke (looks like denyd did his damage again :lol: ) WW is extremely high. We’re paying 72gpt for unit maintenance so I’m gonna disband a bunch of useless warriors. All our workers are far from the core so I’m gonna send the large group near Salzberg back (Leipzig could really use the help right now). Taxstarve some of our newly acquired towns to go from -30gpt to -17gpt.

IBT: gunpowder -> chemistry (10T +36gpt); Theology comes in via Glib; Tsingtao builds HG

T1: 560AD Switch Cologne to Sistine’s; Attack Dovensomething: sword kills spear (2/4); elite sword kills the spear and we take the city + 1 worker + 5g

Found New Leipzig -> worker; Continue tax starving out the English cities.

IBT: English bow kills sword in Dover, retaking the city; English sword pops out of ; Berlin settler -> settler; Leipzig market -> library; Frankfurt knight -> market; Hannover library -> market; denydburg knight -> market; Bad Grahamiam :lol: Library -> harbor; Indians are building Sistine’s;

T2: 570AD Battle of Hastings: cat misses; Army kills pike; elite sword kills spear; elite sword kills spear; archer on top but not enough troops :( ; Attack archer in Dover with 2/4 sword but he dies; Troops near Nottingham (4 swords) wait for more troops); Build the jungle town of New Hamburg -> library; Found New Konigsberg -> Library

IBT: HE completed in Oppeln -> knight; Sauerbraten goes bad

T3: 580AD Battle of Hastings (Part 2): cat misses; 4/5 elite sword kills longbow capturing the city + colossus + 1 worker -> courthouse

IBT: English longbow kills sword near Dover; Kiev riots; Nuremburg worker -> market; RowandLivehausen library -> courthouse

T4: 590AD Attack on Nottingham: vet sword kills pike and we take the city; How anti-climatic; Stack o swords runs thru toward Oxford; Knight retreats from longbow near Dover (wtf, that’s 1 tough bow); warrior dies to longbow as well; disband cat in Hastings

IBT: Berlin settler -> settler; Rheims knight -> knight; Dortmund Library -> market; Chinese are building Sistine’s

T5: 600AD Attack on Birmingham: elite sword kills spear; vet sword kills spear, takes the city + 4g and promotes; Reg sword kills pesky longbow near Dover and promotes to vet.

Sign peace with England for Dover, Brighton, 3gpt, 15g and WM; Sell WM around for about 35g. Fire almost all the clowns, taxstarve new cities, disband a few more warriors.

IBT: Japan building Sistine’s

T6: 610AD Found new Frankfurt in the hills -> library; Shave a turn off Chemistry by adjusting the sci slider

IBT: Bonn worker -> courthouse; Dijon Marketplace -> harbor

T7: 620AD Make about 15g sell WM around.

IBT: Paris knight -> temple; Konigsburg market -> temple; Munich Knight -> temple

T8: 630AD Build New Munich -> library MM sci slider to get +45gpt; hurry courthouse in Moscow

IBT: Chemistry -> Metal (7T, -14gpt); Berlin settler -> settler; Moscow courthouse -> market; Leipzig library -> knight

T9: 640AD China has Education. Build some stuff.

IBT: Education from Glib; Rheims knight -> market; Coventry library -> courthouse

T10: 650AD Move some more stuff around. Change a couple of builds to Universities.

At the end I was really just trying to improve as much land as possible. Large stack of workers still near Leipzig clearing jungles. I still have the lux slider up around 30% just because we can. Next player should keep an eye on the sci slider to see when we can drop research to get more gold. AI should have Astronomy soon.

One other note. We have too many units. Disband swords in the old English towns to speed up courthouse builds. Replace with Knights as we go. We're about 12T from getting MT so we need to build some for upgrading and get rid of the swords and warriors. imho, no more pikes either, 12 is enough. We want around 25 cav and 12 pikes. Might want to kill off England when the peace treaty is done 'cause she's gonna be pissed at us longer than the other 2.

Good luck!

English holdings.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/sgotm2-bugs-650ad.JPG

Well done G-man!

R&L is up, I'm on deck.

I see Joan has a seond city now :hammer:

Keep building settlers and workers

Got it. 3 French cities?