SGOTM2 Germany - Team Handy [Archive] - Civilization Fanatics' Forums

handy900

May 15, 2004, 12:41 PM

Hello all and welcome to the team! :D This will be large fun.

I firmly believe Max asked me to host the game based on experience running a Succession Game, not for playing ability. :lol:

I play for fun. I enjoy the strategic discussion that takes place in SG’s and it has enhanced my playing ability immensely.

Suggestion Since we do not want the wooden spoon, please honestly pipe up about playing experience so we can set a good order. Coletite Thanks for your honesty. I put you last, and put Ted before you and I play after you. Don’t fret. You will learn a lot and have fun in the process. Tinkez If you prefer 3rd, pipe up, and Oddible can switch if he wants to.

Play Order edit 5-22-04
1. Handy
2. Tinkez
3. Oddible
4. maharaja
5. Ted
6. Coletite

Here are the game parameters:
Civ: Germans
Difficulty: Monarch
Map size: Standard
Map shape: Continents
Barbarians: Raging Horde
Climate: Normal
Temperature: Temperate
Age: 4 Billion Years
Game: All victories; Restarting players off
Opponents (F10)
Russia - |Sci. & Exp.| BW & P | Cossacks
France - |Com. & Ind.| M & A| Muskets
England - |Exp. & Com.| A & P| MOW
Japan - |Rel. & Mil.| CB & W| Sams
India - |Com. & Rel.| CB & A| Dumbos
China - |Mil. & Ind.| WC & M| Riders

Opening Play
I’d favor settling on the spot, road & mine both BG’s. That’s 20 worker turns. (G;RRR;MMMMMM,G,RRR,MMMMMM). Build 3 warrior scouts & then chop a granary. If we settle & worker movement reveals some additional bonus, the worker moves may change. Research Pottery @ 100% to get it in 14. Then we can chop a granary. At monarch I would normally go for a settler flood, but raging barbarians will cause us to provide escorts for all settlers. We will have to watch F3 to see which city an uprising is nearby. Our early game goal should be to grab lands until the continent is set. The we can attack our weakest neighbor.

I’ll play later today or Sunday to give everyone a chance to post comments. I don’t think I can lose it in 20 turns. :lol:

VARIANT
I’d recommend we play this straight up. This would be a hard long Always War game. The mini map suggests we are in the middle of the continent, Fighting a two front war with raging barbarians would make this a looooooong game. I’m in if you all want to do it, but it will be very difficult, at least an Emperor Plus or “Deity Light” level game in difficulty.

Victory Goal Given we are scientific, and have Panzers, Domination or conquest seems appropriate. As long as it is no diplo, I don't really care. Space shots are fun, but can get a boring towards the end on monarch level since we will be so far ahead.

SGOTM etiquette (blatantly plagiarized from Mad-Bax & Greebley)

Don’ts
Don’t automate workers.
Don’t use city governors.
Don’t leave units on go-to orders that extend beyond your set of turns.
Don’t change build orders wholesale on your inherited turn.
Don't leave significant units like leaders fortified. Other problems are things like workers fortified in town, boats fortified, etc. I prefer the “Y” key to place units in border cities on sentry. If AI units approach that you do not have an ROP with, the unit wakes up, alerting you to the AI’s presence (Very important when at war so you notice attacks away from the front).
Don't ruin our reputation by breaking trades without the teams permission. This is a biggie. At monarch we will have the AI paying us insane levels of gold when we get to the modern age. I've gotten 300+ GPT trades for ToE Industrial Techs.

DO
DO be polite and constructive on you comments on game play. (if your sentence starts: "Who was the goober-nose that ... ", or “WTF…”; its a bad sign). :lol:
DO ask for a “skip” if real Life (RL) gets in the way of playing. Ask to be skipped, or play your turns on time. Please don't just go missing in action.
DO finish all your turns and upload the game saved at the END of the last turn.
DO follow the GOTM Rules (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/gen/rules2.shtml)
DO stick rigidly to the saved game naming convention. HANDY_SG002_BC4000_02.sav; HANDY_SG002_BC3000_02.sav; etc.
DO include the turn number and the in-game date for each turn in your log. Note: you receive the game at turn 0
DO include reasons you made wholesale changes to city build orders (definitely called for in certain circumstances – like war. Usually however these circumstances are discussed - such as a decision to go to war.). Just supply a good reason for your decision in the log. The player before you may learn something new. One of the key points of succession games is that people do have different ways of playing, which teaches one different ways of approaching the game.
DO include a “NOTES” summary at the end of the turn log that communicates your intentions. (Where is that galley going?)
DO please post your score at the end of your turn. (SGOTM "DO" only)
DO read any previous discussion and the previous players turn. (Hopefully the previous player summarized very important parts in the final notes). This will avoid having good plans started by one player continuing with the next.
DO check F1 each turn to make sure cities will not riot next turn.
DO stop in the middle of your turns, post a save and ask for the team’s opinion if you are unsure what to do. Say the Zulu are demanding tribute, the team plans to eventually attack the Zulu, but you are not sure we are ready yet. Post a save if you want some help. I have learned a lot this way. If something comes up during your turn which is a difficult decision, then it is completely appropriate to stop playing so a discussion can occur on the best path to follow.
DO aks players why they did something you don't understand. That's how we all learn & get bnetter.
Do feel free to explain in your post why you did something. Also feel free to ask players to comment on your decisions. Such as, I'm not sure if I should do X or Y, I chose X because of ___, was this okay?
DO forgive Handy for Typos :p

Let’s get ready to Ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuummmmmmble :hammer:

handy900

May 15, 2004, 12:57 PM

First early leader forms army so we can build Heroic Epic. Subsequent leaders split between forming armies and wonder production. Speaking of which, since we are also scientific, making sure we get the science wonders would boost the trait's effectiveness.

I think it depends on when we get the leader. The Pyramids are soooo powerful I hate to pass them up if I have an early leader.

Since we are militaristic, I recommend Sir Pleb's excellent article on
Leader fishing (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3acad_leaders.shtml) if you have no read it yet. He makes some interesting points about the effectiveness of the Heroic Epic in the early game (non AW game). When it makes sense, when it does not. Building wonders that place a building in each city (SZ, Pyramids) or have an effect on each city (Smith's) just so powerful. Pyramids are almost unfair in a human players hands. Almost :D

coletite

May 15, 2004, 02:12 PM

Cool.

I win regularly on regeant (no losses, but a lot of incomplete games as I've tried to refine various parts of my strategy). I just started playing on Monarch and haven't completed a game yet.

One point of claification- when I finish my turns, I save just before hitting "done" on my 10th turn? Likewise, when I start, the first thing I will do (after checking out hte way things stand) is hit "done?" Just want to get this out of the way early.

I'm all for a domination/conquest victory. I've been trying to remain balanced between war and building. That is, some games I'll go for a space race, others will be conquest. My weakest point (that I'm aware of) is fighting protracted wars with opponents on other continents. So this could be a good learning experience for me.

On the conquest subject- is an early win out of the question? I know we don't get Panzers until MA. We may not even want to go for an early win, but it has been my experience that once you hit MA, whether or not winning is inevitable is already decided and it can get a bit dull running giant stacks of artillary and tanks across the map against riflemen and infantry. Just my .02

Tinkez

May 15, 2004, 02:13 PM

I can play as second player, so the roster looks fine by me.

The leaders are a difficult one and if our strategy will be to expand as much as possible without wars, then it might take while before we get our first leader. At that point the forbidden palace is also a good choice as the first leader usage. That way we'll get second core easily (assuming we get that leader :) )

I also recommend settling on the spot, though move the worker first (to east?) and see if something great appears and act accordingly.

@Handy: You can start playing and then after we'll see a bit more of the map, we can make more detailed plans. Your first 20 turns plan looks ok to me. Just leave me a nice spot to continue :D (not like 20+ barbarians next to our capital :lol: )

-Tinkez

coletite

May 15, 2004, 02:16 PM

@Handy- is it possible for you to post a screen cap after you settle?

handy900

May 15, 2004, 06:00 PM

@Handy- is it possible for you to post a screen cap after you settle?

Absolutely.

One point of claification- when I finish my turns, I save just before hitting "done" on my 10th turn? Likewise, when I start, the first thing I will do (after checking out hte way things stand) is hit "done?" Just want to get this out of the way early

Yes, that is exactly how to play it. Sometimes you might notice something before you hit enter on the inherited turn that needs to be done.

On the conquest subject- is an early win out of the question? I know we don't get Panzers until MA. We may not even want to go for an early win, but it has been my experience that once you hit MA, whether or not winning is inevitable is already decided and it can get a bit dull running giant stacks of artillary and tanks across the map against riflemen and infantry. Just my .02

I win regularly on regeant (no losses, but a lot of incomplete games as I've tried to refine various parts of my strategy). I just started playing on Monarch and haven't completed a game yet.

By the end of this game you will know how to smoke Monarch. :goodjob:

The game should be over, or in heavy mop up mode before we get to tanks, unless of course we decide to go for a space shot. I win about 90% of the time via domination or conquest. I don't play alot of games with Raging Barbs, but I'd expect a sword war, then during knights we gain total control our continent. Cavalry + rails + artillery will clean out the AI on the other size. If we actually build a panzer we may get the wooden spoon. Ugh.

Unless we have a really poor staring spot (unlikly in a former GOTM) we should be able to out settle the AI. After that we'll get aquainted with the neigbors. ;)

handy900

May 15, 2004, 06:16 PM

4000 BC
Moved worker east to the BG and settled on the spot after i saw the forest game tile. Then I settled and saw wheat on plains to the northwest.

[dance] Official Settler Factory (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3acad_deity_settlers.shtml) for us.

Chop and irrigate the game, irrigate the wheat & we have 5 extra food in the home city after border expansion.

Pottery is due in 14 @ 100% research. I'll mine & road the BG. Next I'll chop & Irrigate the Game. The chop will go towards a granary. I'll build 3 warriors before the granary. The next couple of players can mine & road the other BG, then irrigate the wheat and we will be in business.

May need a couple more warriors if barbs show up, but that's the plan.

Play Order (unless we switch Tinkez & Oddible)
1. Handy <-playing, will post Saturday night.
2. Tinkez
3. Oddible <- needs to check in
4. Ted <- Where are you. :confused:
5. Coletite

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HANDY_SG002_BC4000_02_pic1.JPG

handy900

May 15, 2004, 07:47 PM

SGOTM2 team handy
Turn 0 4000 BC
Move worker east to the BG.
Found Berlin.

Moved worker east to the BG and settled on the spot after i saw the forest game tile. Then I settled and saw wheat on plains to the northwest.
Official Settler Factory for us. Once we have chopped and irrigated the game & wheat, we will have 5 extra food in the home city.

Set build to warrior & select pottery is due in 14 @ 100% research. I'll mine & road the BG . Next I'll chop & Irrigate the Game. The chop will go towards a granary. I'll build 3 warriors before the granary. The next couple of players can mine & road the other BG, then irrigate the wheat and we will be in business. If the water N of the wheat is a lake, it will save us having to drag water up to the wheat.

May need a couple more warriors if barbs show up, but that's the plan.

Turn 1 3950 BC
Worker starts a mine.

Turn 2 3900
:sleep:

Turn 3 3850
:sleep:

Turn 4 3800
:sleep:

IBT (In Between Turns)
Berlin -> warrior -> warrior

Turn 5 3750
Warrior moves N onto the mountain. His name is Franz & he will explore north

Turn 6 3700
The water N of the wheat is a fresh water lake :D

IBT
Mine completes

Turn 7 3650
Worker starts road.
Franz is staying on the mountains moving N.
Two spotted NW of the wheat.

Turn 8 3600
Spot river NW of the ivory.

Turn 9 3550
Franz finds the ocean to the N
Hanz heads due W to the mountains, then he will mountain hop to the south.

Turn 10 3500
Borders expand. The border expansion reveals spices 3 tiles (S-S-SW) of Berlin.
Road completes. Move to the game to chop it.

Turn 11 3450
Exploring

Turn 12 3400
Exploring

Turn 13 3350
Exploring.

IBT
Pottery -> I decided on the Wheel since no one else starts with it. I hope we can trade for the other stuff. Research is at 100% due in 18. I always like to know where the ponies are. After this maybe IW.
Berlin –> warrior -> warrior

Turn 14 3300
Explore

Turn 15 3250
Johann is moving E and spots wheat.

Turn 16 3200
Explore

Turn 17 3150
Lots of Jungle to the south. Good land North & land East. Lots of mountains to the west.
Have not seen any barbs or huts yet.
Berlin is undefended in case you were wondering.

Turn 18 3100
North looks good. Fresh water, plains, cows, Ivory, Grasslands

Turn 19 3050
Explore
Flood plains & wheat to the east.

Turn 20 3000
Berlin grows, so the slider needs an adjustment to keep the people happy.

Notes:
Watch growth in Berlin to make sure you do not have happiness problems. Check F1, our gola is no wasted turns due to revolts all game long. :D

The worker finishes the chop next turn. He should then irrigate & build a road on the game. After that he can move to the other BG, road & Mine it, then irrigate & road the wheat.

During this time you can build a spears to act as military police in Berlin. Normally I’d build warriors for this, but with raging barbs we probably want spears. You can build a barracks in 4 turns. I’d do it, but it’s debatable.
Next city spot is open to debate. I like due south of the western most Elephant. This places it next to fresh water. It can build veteran spears to escort our settlers, and provide a luxury. When it grows to big we can peel off a worker, then go back to building more spears.
I think we should keep Franz heading north and Hanz heading south. Hopefully they can make contact & do some trades. Johann can move clockwise along the black area to reveal the lands near our capital.
Our growth is going to explode when the settler factory is complete.

Any questions fire away. I’m going to upload our file using the SGOTM upload thread. If I have any problems, I’ll post an attachment later.

Be sure to use the SGOTM file name convention for your saves.
The 3000 BC file is named HANDY_SG002_BC3000_02.sav

Everyone plays 10 turns from now on.

Good Luck
Play Order (unless we switch Tinkez & Oddible)
1. Handy <- just played.
2. Tinkez <- UP
3. Oddible <- needs to check in. I sent a PM.
4. Ted <- needs to check in. I sent a PM.
5. Coletite

One final request. If you post a [I]wide screenshot, do it in a separate post, that way readers don’t have to scroll back & forth to read your text log. Chopped down screenshots are okay to embed in your turn log.

Oh, almost forgot – our score is 69.

Here is the save. Good Luck Tinkez!

Save 3000 BC (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Handy_SG002_BC3000_01.SAV)

handy900

May 15, 2004, 07:49 PM

The world as qwe know it in 3000 BC.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HANDY_SG002_BC3000_02_pic1.JPG

coletite

May 15, 2004, 08:05 PM

The red dot looks good. How likely is it that our nearest opponent is to the NW? Do we want to concentrate on expanding toward our neighbors to grab land away from them or is it still too early to worry about that?

Also, what is our general strategy for city placement? Personally, I don't care for RCP. If we are going for a heavy military game then ICS may be an option.

One more question: how do I add images? Is there a link that has good information on drawing on screen caps? I tried Paint, but it didn't turn out to well.

handy900

May 15, 2004, 08:37 PM

The red dot looks good. How likely is it that our nearest opponent is to the NW? Do we want to concentrate on expanding toward our neighbors to grab land away from them or is it still too early to worry about that?

I think we'll have at least 1 AI to the north & 1 to the south. There are 6 AI's in the game + us, so we'll have at least 2 on our continent, maybe 3. Perhaps 1 NW of us, and maybe 1 SE and 1 SW.

Early on I usually settle the best "core" sites first around the capital to get production up. Exceptions for luxuries & resources. I grab those before the AI does. In this game we want the best land so we can grow quickly, which is NE & NW so far. Further exploration may change our plans.

Also, what is our general strategy for city placement? Personally, I don't care for RCP. If we are going for a heavy military game then ICS may be an option.

We don't want a pure ICS, which is cities space 1 tile apart. I think 3 tiles between as a general rule works well on Monarch (CxxxCxxxC) in a standard map. Notice there are 3 tiles from Berlin to the red dot. If this was a Huge or Big map I'd go for 4 tiles between cities. Three tiles apart allows cities to grow to work 12 tiles. We won't build hospitals in this game if we go the miltary route, so size 12 is as big as we will get. I'm actually a big fan of pure RCP for less corruption. I rarely get it perfect since a luxury or a mountain or a lake screws it up. Once I learned it, I couln't "unlearn" it, so I just use it. Typically an ICS like build of CxxCxxC would be for an Always War game. Two tile distance allows you to "chain" units from city to city to reinforce. Check out the the T_McC of HNDY02 links in my signature for examples of 2 tile AW builds. Since we will not always be at war, 3 is better for us in this game.

One more question: how do I add images?

Here is how I do screen shots.
1. Hit the "Prt Scrn" key to place a screen shot on the PC's clipboard.
2. Open Microsoft Paint.
3. In MS paint, click "Edit" then "Paste". This should put the screen shot into paint.
3. Save the screenshot as a Jpeg. Name it something like "HANDY_SG002_BC3000_02.jpg"
4. At the very bottom of the forum page, click on "Upload File".
5. Browse, attach the file, and click upload to send the .jpg file to the server.
6. When the upload is complete you will see a box that says "upload Confirmation" Click on the link that says "Veiw New Upload Folder 7" This takes you to all the files loaded in chronological order. The file you just loaded will be at the top since it is in last loaded chronological order.
7. Right Click and select "Copy Shortcut".
8. In the forum select "Post a Reply" There are some Icons above the box where you type your reply. Click the box that says "IMG". Paste in the "shortcut" (the pictures URL address) in the box. Make sure the box does not say "http://" two times.
9. When you click "OK" the link should appear in the bottom of your post and look like this with out the quotation marks and extra "*" I put in.
"[*IMG]http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/uploadpic.JPG[/IMG*]"

coletite

May 15, 2004, 10:01 PM

Thanks Handy, I appreciate it.

I like the idea of spacing cities 3 tiles apart. If we want to go the RCP route, that's fine by me. What about temporary cities between our core cities to build units then disband when our core cities need the tiles? I've never done this, but I read about. My thoughts are that it would be a good strategy for crowded maps, but right now we need to expand outward and by the time we can afford to use settlers in that way the core cities will be needing the tiles. Just thinking out loud, sorry.

As for locations, the NE will probably not be settled by rivals for a long time. The south has too much jungle to be profitable right now. As you mentioned, the red dot has access to fresh water and that ivory will help keep us from needing MPs or the lux slider.

What about our over-all science strategy? Do we want to build up science revenue fairly quickly? Or should we focus on economy and purchase techs? Since we are scientific it would be a waste not to build libraries, etc. These would also give us our culture without needing many religous improvements. Maybe we should focus on researching techs the AI isn't likely to place a high priority on and using them to trade for the others until we get far enough ahead to research what we need. (This may be a given, so excuse me if I'm pointing out the obvious.)

Oddible

May 16, 2004, 01:40 AM

Checking in. Howdy all!

Looks like we got a lot of map in 20 turns. Excellent. Agree on the 2nd city, maybe third goes sw of the grain to our east? Bummer the spice is in the jungle. Looks like our growth is going to be nw, ne and s, with nw being the most promising. I'd even consider sending Johann out a few more tiles to see if we can spot a neighbor over there to the east.

I've never been a fan of armies so I almost always use leaders for hurry. Unless there isn't a wonder around to be made and it's the beginning of a war where we expect to get other leaders, I usually wait on armies.

Holding our own in science shouldn't be too difficult - love those cheap libraries! Barracks too. I'm not typically a warmonger but the last few games I've played have see some bloodlust. A huge fan of the early strike on the nearest neighbor (or the one that has our iron of course).

Good to be playing with y'all - looking forward to it!

Tinkez

May 16, 2004, 03:35 AM

I got the save. I'll play my turns this afternoon, first I'll just list here some thoughts what I'll do during my turns.

Berlin has granary coming up in 2 turns (3 shields short to finish in 1 turn :( )as the worker will finish the forest chop in 1 turns. After that Handy suggested to build barracks, but I think we should build a spear just in case as all of our warriors are far away from the city. If a barb appears, he might pillage the production of the undefended city. We can play gamble also, if you guys want that. Any suggestions?

when the defensive unit is built, I'll start a settler to being our factorys production :D When the settler is finished, the protective unit will escort him to new city place to ensure safe travels.

I'll report back after my turns, and check this thread before I start playing if you have any comments before that. "Los geht's" as the germans would say...

-Tinkez

handy900

May 16, 2004, 07:57 AM

Either way is ok with me. One option is to start barracks & switch to spear if a barb shows up. You may have to dump some shields if this happens.

Perhaps better is regular spears to escort the first few settlers, until we can build veteran spears in the 2nd and 3rd cities we will be founding. You may have to build spears after the first settler as escorts. Settler / spear / settler / spear rotation. We'll need another worker soon also.

Getting good land, building roads to our 2 luxuries, and making some trading contacts is more important than veteran spears at this point.

The more I think about it, the more I think it is a good plan to skip the barracks. Build spear / settler, send both to found a city. Build another spear / settler, send both, etc. If a barb arrives while Berlin is building a spear, you won't lose much production.
Good plan Tinkez :goodjob:

Once the additional cities can build spears, Berlin can then just build settlers.

At some point we can move the regular spears back to cities deep within our borders to act as military police. Later, we will want at least 2, maybe 3 veteran spears or swords in the cities on the edge of our border to fight the barbarian uprisings. I have seen 16 barb horsemen attack all at once in a massive rebellion. Checking F3 each turn can tip us off and allow us to move troops to fight the barbarioan hordes.

Welcome Oddible - you are up after Tinkez :wavey:

handy900

May 16, 2004, 08:09 AM

Checking in. Howdy all!

I'd even consider sending Johann out a few more tiles to see if we can spot a neighbor over there to the east.

Yes, it looks like there is a mountain SE of Johann next to the hill. He is so close to those he may as well climb them to see what turns up. If it is a mountain range he can mountain hop in a counterclockwise trend.

Tinkez

May 16, 2004, 08:47 AM

Here are my 10 turns:

IBT: Worker finishes forest chop, MM production in Berlin to complete granary in 1 turn.

2950BC(1): Worker begins irrigation on game tile. Hanz moves south to the hill and sees brown borders. That must be Catharine.

IBT: Berlin granary->barracks. Let's gamble.

2900BC(2): Johann finds Incence on a hill. Hanz moves to the mountain top hoping to establish contact without entering Russian land. He sees ivory linked up, but no town/units. MM Berlin to complete barracks in 4 turns and get +2 food. Wheel drops from 13 turns to 8 turns -> someone has it now.

IBT:Nothing.

2850BC(3):Catharine has Masonry. Can't trade anything with her.

IBT:Worker finishes irrigation.

2750BC(4):Nothing special (Catharine just got her second city somewhere.)

IBT:Berlin completes barracks -> spear.

2710BC(5):Explorers move forward, see nothing special.

IBT:

2670BC(6):Franz is exploring lot of mountains, I think the north of the continent is behind the mountains.

IBT:Worker finishes road, Berlin grows to size 4.

2630BC(7):MM Berlin back to normal, get spear in 1 turn at the cost of -1 food. Accept this. Wheel in 3 turns. Franz confirms north end of continent is found. Hanz is moving along russian borders and finds a hut next to them! Will pop it next turn... Hoping for a settler :hmm:

IBT: German safe is almost empty, but as the spear completes, I'm able to press the lux slider back and get wheel in 2 turns with +1gpt. Berlin begins work on settler.

2590BC(8):Hanz pops the hut and gets a map which reveals purple borders SW of russian borders! That must be Jean just next to Catharine! The Russian / French region looks very good, lots of floodplains with furs, wheat and cattle nearby... Needs an invasion after their cities are found there :D

IBT: Catharine gets CB.

2550BC(9):Nothing special.

IBT: Wheel complete. Start IW at 10% as it would be the same with 40%.

2510BC(10): Last turn. Now I could make some deals with the wheel, but I'd rather first see what Joan has to offer (Catharine offers 2gp for it :confused: ) Next player can squeeze a tech out of Joan :D

The stage is all yours. Our score is 79 (Russia has 92). Berlin is 2 turns to size 5 and 3 turns to settler.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Tinkez_SG002_BC2510_01.SAV

-Tinkez

Tinkez

May 16, 2004, 08:48 AM

Map:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Tinkez(team_Handy)_SG002_Map_2510BC.JPG

Tinkez

May 16, 2004, 10:19 AM

mad-bax

May 16, 2004, 12:14 PM

Tinkez: You need to upload the save using the Upload to sever link in my sig. You can bookmark it to make it easier. Your team mates can download it from here too.

handy900

May 16, 2004, 01:00 PM

Well I played my turns and built the barracks. That might have been a mistake, but it's done now :p

If we let Berlin to build the settler now, then it'll drop down to size three -> maybe better to build a second spear first and let Berlin grow to size six before building the settler. Then we'll have time to finish irrigation on the wheat and set up the factory correctly. This would also benefit the barracks building and we'd get second military police to Berlin for a while and could probably set lux rate to 0% for a while -> more money /sci. Would this be ok? :confused:

Well played Tinkrez :goodjob:. Barracks will be useful, it was a tossup and could be played either way.

Nice job MM Berlin for production. I agree about letting Berlin build spears while we irrigate the wheat. Then, when the wheat is irrigated we will have a 4 turn Settler Factory.

If Obbible switches Berlin to spear before he/she :confused: hits enter to end the turn, and MM's to work a forest tile, we can get a spear in 1 turn. Then the lux slider can go to zero. You could then build another spear in 3 turns working the forest while the worker irrigates the wheat which will take 4 turns. After the second spear, start building 4 turn settlers. We will have 3 spears in Berlin. Two of these can escort the first two settlers. By the time we build the third settler, we may need to build another in Berlin.

Watch F1 after Belin is down to 1 spear. It will riot if you don't use the lux slider. Get science up when you can so we will know where the iron is and can claim it for our own. :hammer:

Saves:
I think we are supposed to keep everything constant about the saves except for the year. So the saves should be
HANDY_SG002_BC4000_02
HANDY_SG002_BC3000_02
HANDY_SG002_BC2500_02
HANDY_SG002_BC2250_02 ... and so forth.
Then we switch to AD of course.
"Handy" represents the team name, not the player's name. I think. I'll email Mad-Bax to make sure. :confused:
I'm pretty sure the scoring upload system is looking for the files to be named in this specific way so it can compute each teams score and populate the charts appropriately.
EDIT I'm not so sure anymore. No less an authority than ainwood :worship: says
Just name it whatever you like. It gets renamed when its uploaded to the server using Alan's remarkable upload page.

Still for ease of sorting & finding it on the server, I suggest we use the naming convention outlined above.

Tinkez - here is the Link to upload your save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm.php) so our team score will post to the Scoreboard (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm_submission_list.php)

The Roster
Handy900
Tinkez
Oddible <- UP :D
Ted Jackson
coletite

Good luck Oddible :D

coletite

May 16, 2004, 02:31 PM

handy900

May 16, 2004, 06:06 PM

Should we switch from IW to Writing? The AI will research IW ASAP. We can always buy/trade for it. My fear is that, at this point, if we research what the AI is researching we will always be behind. If we get writing and hold onto it until we get Lit, we could have some trading power.

I think we'll be okay, and I like to know where the iron is. AI will grab it if we don't. If the team feels differently let me know. I just prefer not to have to use archers to pry the iron away from the AI. Wastes a lot of shields we could use to build swords. If the team feels differently, we can sitch no biggie. :)

Also, when it comes to my turn, if the is MM to be done for the settler factory, could somebody please explain what needs to be done. I haven't quite gotten the hang of it yet.

Will do. Basically just check to make sure you grow every 2 turns (5 extra food in the box for each of the 4 turns) and make sure you have the shield count to complete the settler in 4 turns (30 turns - usually 7+7+8+8=30) . You must work both irrigated tiles to get 5 extra food. Here is a link to the War Academy Settler Factory Article. (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3acad_deity_settlers.shtml) Also, I'll give you a turn by turn list of tiles to work before you pick up the game if you like. :D

Oddible

May 16, 2004, 10:16 PM

Got it. Probably be able to play it out tonight.
('He' would be the proper pronoun, btw).

Tinkez

May 17, 2004, 12:14 AM

Ok, I'll post the save again using the submission form today after work. Not much harm done as Oddible was able to play it, we're just a little behind on the scoreboard.

Oddible

May 17, 2004, 12:15 AM

.................................................. ......................

The Save - Handy_SG002_BC2110_01.sav (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Handy_SG002_BC2110_01.SAV)
.................................................. ......................

Pre
Switch Berlin to Spear (in 2)
MM Forest

IBT

Berlin: Spear->Spear(3)

2470BC - Turn 32 (1)

Worker finished road on BG. Ok, sent to irrigate grain.

As I look east to jungle as far as the eye can see I consider an executive decision on Johann to send him west. I really want to know what's to our immediate west as it looks better than to our east. Instead I send Franz on the march south to explore this for us. Johann continues on se.

Lux to 0%, +4pt. We have 7g and nearest change is 32 turns at +0. Waiting for some bank first.

IBT
-

2430BC - Turn 33 (2)

Oh tough one already on turn 2! Joan has Masonry and Alphabet, and Catherine has Masonry and Ceremonial Burial.

We got nothing on Cathy, we have Wheel and Pottery on Joan.
Cathy wants 4gpt for either and Joan wants both +4gpt for Alphabet.

I trade Joan Pottery and Wheel (which Cathy just got) for Masonry and 37g.
Cathy still wants 48g + 2gpt for CB. If Joan had more cash left over I might take it.

Lux back to 10% in anticipation of Berlin's growth.

IBT
-

2390BC - Turn 34 (3)

Exploring...
Johann enters upon a herd of Horses!

IBT

Russia plants Kiev nw of St. Petersburg.
Berlin: Spear->Settler(4)

2350BC - Turn 35 (4)

Exploring...
Hanz reaches the southern coast!

IBT
-

2310BC - Turn 36 (5)

Exploring...

IBT
-

2270BC - Turn 37 (6)

Hanz meets an English conscript warrior. Trades Wheel and 4g for Alphabet. She doesn't have Masonry yet but only 14g.

Irrigation finished, MM for growth in 1. Settler still in 2.

IBT
-

2230BC - Turn 38 (7)

Set worker to mine BG.
Exploring...

Looks like this norther peninsula is all ours if we can get to it, but we'd better get on those spices quick-like.

Lux to 20%.

IBT

Berlin: Settler->Settler

2190BC - Turn 39 (8)

Lux back to 0%

IBT
-

2150BC - Turn 40 (9)

Jeesh, I got Hanz caught behind the French along the coast, sorry bout that. Gonna keep going and hope there's a way out.

Buy CB from Cathy for 31g.

Russia has Horseback and France has Ironworking, both have Mysticism. Hmm. Too late to switch to Writing.

IBT

Berlin grows.

2110BC - Turn 41 (10)

Lux to 10%.

Parting thoughts

IronWorking in 30. Not my usual choice. One suggestion would be that we need to get a road to and a settler on those horses to the south pronto. As we don't seem to have much of a challenge for the north right now our growth should be balanced between strong inner ring cities and securing southern resources (spices first, then horses, then incense unless Johan finds the English getting close over there). Perhaps Franz will find some horses to the north. Just my 2C.

Firaxis score: 85
Jason score: 65

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Handy_SG002_2110BC.jpg

Oddible

May 17, 2004, 12:20 AM

Whoa, did I blow it somehow? It says turn 41 for us now on the score page??? Are we off a turn?

Oddible

May 17, 2004, 12:32 AM

Nope, Tinkez skipped reporting 2800 so the numbering is off. Sorry, shoulda caught that. Good thing is that the SGOTM upload system definitely catches it. Hey, Ted, it would be great if you could take just nine turns to put us even with the rest.

Also, I think it would be a good idea to change from reporting 1-10 to the actual game turn. We're on Turn 41 so Ted's first move would be:

2070BC - Turn 42 ...
2030BC - Turn 43

etc.

You always end on a 0.

mad-bax

May 17, 2004, 01:00 AM

Just to back up what ainwood says...

You can upload your saves throught the upload link in my sig.
You can download saves through the download link in my sig.
It is in fact not necessary to provide a link in the game thread - though you can of course.

coletite

May 17, 2004, 01:11 AM

We need to uncover as much of that NW fog as possible ASAP. If there is no competition in that area, then we should focus on blocking Russian expansion. It looks like they are likely to expand to the east of Kiev as the north is mountainous. The land north of Berlin is the best so far, but if teh English aren't to the NW, then we shoudl have plenty of time to settle there. Maybe every third settler can go north.

Another option- it looks like Russia has blocked France, so I'd expect to see an early war between them. We can capitalize on that by joining France and taking some Russian city/sites along our border. This way we can keep the focus on expanding north. In this case we need our third city to start producing units. My vote is for warriors then do a mass upgrade to swords when we have iron hooked up. With a dozen swords, we could end up sharing a border woith France!

Either way, I think we need to establish a worker factory soon. It looks like there are flood plains to the NW. Maybe make the second city a unit city and the third a worker factory.

At this point I say we trade for IW (both France and Russia have it so it won't be monopoly priced) and switch research to writing. We'll lose the beakers, but waiting 30 turns for IW won't get us the iron before Russia.

Well played, Oddible!

Tinkez

May 17, 2004, 04:14 AM

I give my vote also for buying the IW from the French or the Russian. Then we can gamble for Writing and Lit. Lit we should get, but one other option is to aim straigth away for Mathematics, as AI tends to get that quite late also.

Aggressive settling sounds better, so head with the borders due south and towards Russia. Then after we have worker factory, set a couple of workers to build a road towards Catharine to allow faster transportation of troops later on. First we must check west of Berlin, of course.

The second city should build barracks and start spilling out vet warriors ready for upgrade (Where's that iron???).

Our near future plan looks nice, just try to get the tech pace going on again. I started the IW, as at that point we did not have alphabet to allow writing research and same goes with mysticsm->polytheism route and I did not want to research the starting techs. I should have pointed that out in my turn log.

I also apologize for losing count on my turns, that was mistake I did not see. It was sunday and I was in cruise control :crazyeye:

-Tinkez

handy900

May 17, 2004, 07:09 AM

Whoa, did I blow it somehow? It says turn 41 for us now on the score page??? Are we off a turn?

No big deal on the turns, just play 9 next round.

Play Order (unless we switch Tinkez & Oddible)
1. Handy
2. Tinkez
3. Oddible
4. Ted <- UP
5. Coletite

I sent Ted a PM, but he has not picked it up yet :( . If we don't hear from him in 24 hours, we'll just skip him this round.

I give my vote also for buying the IW from the French or the Russian. Then we can gamble for Writing and Lit. Lit we should get, but one other option is to aim straigth away for Mathematics, as AI tends to get that quite late also.

Agree.

I'm @ work and cannot post a dot map for cities until later. If anyone wants to have a go at a dot map, go ahead. :D

We'll need to priortizie to get the the spices, horses and the core cities settled. Lots of jungle to chop. Once we start pumping out settlers our ecomomy (and score) will soar. I usually don't play for score (play lots of AW games), so this is a new challenge for me. :D

Tinkez - I uploaded the save after your turns for you. :)

Tinkez

May 17, 2004, 07:45 AM

Tinkez - I uploaded the save after your turns for you. :)

Thanks a lot!

TedJackson

May 17, 2004, 08:49 AM

Hi guys,

I'll review progress & play this evening.

Ted

mad-bax

May 17, 2004, 09:42 AM

Can I place another person on this team please? Since the game has started it is entirely up to you if you accept another player or not. No pressure.

Oddible

May 17, 2004, 11:45 AM

Are they a solid Sid-level player with a penchant for milking high scores? Sure!

(Just kidding, fine by me.)

coletite

May 17, 2004, 01:16 PM

One thing to keep in mind- if we block Russian expansion, they are likely to declare war on us. We need to keep our army "strong compared to theirs." That means lots of warriors.

Going the mathmatics route sounds good to me.

What government do we want to go for? Sounds like we are going to be a t war a lot, so Monarchy might be the best bet.

MB- another player is OK with me.

handy900

May 17, 2004, 03:19 PM

Can I place another person on this team please? Since the game has started it is entirely up to you if you accept another player or not. No pressure.

It's okay by me. :D

The Roster
Handy900
Tinkez
Oddible
Ted Jackson <- UP Hi Ted! :wavey:
coletite
maharaja <- welcome to the team :wavey: Let us know what level you are & we will slot you accordingly. If you have beaten Emperor, you can follow coletite, otherwise I'll slot you in after me & before Tinkez.

mad-bax

May 17, 2004, 04:27 PM

Thanks guys. I have added maharaja to your roster.

handy900

May 17, 2004, 04:34 PM

Thanks guys. I have added maharaja to your roster.

Great!

Mad-Bax - Aren't you supposed to be on Holiday?

TedJackson

May 18, 2004, 04:51 AM

SGM02-2110BC

Pre-flight checks...
Berlin needs MM for +5fpt

The IW deal isn't on yet as we only have 31gp & 1gpt for trade. Both France & Russia consider such an offer insulting. I leave research on IW until we can make the deal.

1 - 2070BC
Leipzig founded - revealing Floodplains NW
Warriors explore
The best deal I can get for IW is 24gp +4gpt from France.
Sell CB to England for 14gp
Buy IW from France for 42gp + 3gpt
Iron shows up to the North and East of Berlin
Research Writing @10%

2 - 2030BC
Berlin grows and needs MM for +5fpt
Lux 20%
Warriors explore

IBT
Berlin Settler - Settler

3 - 1990BC
MM Berlin for +5fpt
Lux 0%
Settler heads South - best of a bad bunch. Chosen mainly to prevent Russia from claiming the site
Worker mine - heads for grassland 2SW of Berlin (we need more shields)
Warriors explore

4 - 1950BC
MM Berlin for +5fpt
Lux 10%
Warriors explore

5 - 1910
Worker mine
Warriors explore
Settler arrives on site
France has discovered Writing :(
Buy Mysticism from France for Contact with English + 4gp
Switch research to Poly - aiming to be first to Monarchy

IBT
France starts Oracle

6 - 1870BC
Hamburg founded (on Spices)
MM Berlin for +5fpt
Lux 20%
Warriors explore

7 - 1830BC
We're 2 shields short of a Settler - we need to mine those last 2 grasslands at Berlin ASAP
Warriors explore

IBT
Berlin Settler - Worker (needed until grassland is mined to prevent Berlin reaching size 7)

8 - 1790BC
MM Berlin for +5fpt
Lux 10%
Settler heads East
Warriors explore

9 - 1750BC
Settler E
Warriors explore

Notes
Berlin needs MM every time it grows to stay at +5fpt, but we're still short on shields for a 4 turn Settler Factory. Once the worker completes the mine then we should be OK.

We desperately need more workers. I suggest that each new settlement produces a Warrior then a Worker (circumstances allowing) as the initial builds.

In a similar vein we are short of military so we are unable to provide escorts for Settlers for the forseeable future. I don't quite understand why we have a barracks in Berlin as Berlin was always going to be a Settler Factory without scope for producing military until the end of the expansion phase.

The Settler (to the East of Berlin) has a choice of moving 1E or 1NE before founding. I slightly favour 1E as it allows more scope for settling the Floodplains to the North later.

Northeast Territory
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54974&stc=1
SGM02-Handy-1750BC-NE.jpg

Northwest Territory
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54975&stc=1
SGM02-Handy-1750BC-NW.jpg

Save
Submitted save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Handy_SG002_BC1750_01.SAV)

Our score is 98 at the end of 1750BC and I stopped there to even up the dates.

Ted

mad-bax

May 18, 2004, 05:00 AM

Aah - I've known you all this time as Ted Jackson, wheras really you are TedJackson. :D

Spelled your name incorrectly in the database. I've fixed it now. I think Alan is going to get pretty teed off with my typing incompetence soon. :help:

You can resubmit the save or leave it to me Ted. I'd rather you did it just to make absolutely sure it works.

Sorry.

Karasu

May 18, 2004, 05:01 AM

I couldn't get the submission form to work for me so could somebody give me a clue :)

EDIT: Mad, have you got ESP powers? Next time I expect you to post before someone comes up with troubles with the submission page... ;)

Anyway, I was right about the problem :D

TedJackson

May 18, 2004, 05:07 AM

Karasu

May 18, 2004, 05:11 AM

p.s. Good to see you're on the ball too, Karasu :)

Yes, and I was glad to see you back in the forum :)

And, You know -I had to find a way to kill time now that we made peace with the Incas... ;)

handy900

May 18, 2004, 07:45 AM

Play Order edit 5-18-04
1. Handy
2. Tinkez
3. Oddible
4. Ted <- Just played.
5. Coletite <- UP

maharaja <-Needs to check in so we can slot him somewhere in the order. I sent him a PM.

Hi Ted - barracks were my bad. We wanted to build something while Berlin's Pop grew. Tinkez suggested military units - I suggested barracks. After I thought about it I realized the spears would have been better - but it was too late. :cry: I'm playing too much AWE and have developed bad habits for a regular game. :crazyeye:

Coletite I can look at the save when I get home to give you some pointers if you like. Most important is to mine the last bonus grass near Berlin so we can get settlers in 4 turns. As Ted said, every time a settler pops, you will want to MM Berlin each turn to make sure it is working the two irrigated tiles and the BG to produce 5 extra food each turn. The city govenor will try to work the wrong tiles. If you like, I'll give you a turn by turn list of tiles to work, or someone else who has access to the save can do it.

coletite

May 18, 2004, 12:41 PM

Oddible

May 18, 2004, 02:58 PM

I've uploaded a couple numbered JPEGs that we can use to chat about city placement, etc.

Nice trading Ted!

Workers - too bad for the raging barbs, we'll hafta build military before a worker in all new cities? Maybe we can get away with a worker first in some instances. Would be nice to get that ivory hooked up.

Iron - got no favors on resource placement, these locations aren't exactly great. Looks like the NE iron may offer more opportunities initially. Still can't see the far west of that norther peninsula tho. Nice we've got a horse to the north tho.

coletite

May 18, 2004, 03:20 PM

I like the hill NE of green 4 next to the mountain. It is on a river (you can barely see it) and it will allow us to put a city on the forest by the flood plains.

handy900

May 18, 2004, 06:36 PM

Great. I'm itchin' to play and would like to start in about an hour. If you can get me a turn-by-turn MM list, that would be great, although after Ted's post, I think I got it.

Handy there isn't another bonus grass tile. The two are already mined. The one that is beign worked now is a regular grass. Not sure if this makes a difference. Don't we need an average of 8 shields per turn? At size 6, after the mine is built we will have 7 shields. Like I said, I haven't yet gotten the hang of factories, so I'll trust the team. Just tell me what to do.

My bad - I was looking at a picture at work & thought it was a BG. We can't build settlers in 4 turns until we clear another forest to uncover a BG. The best we can do is build them in 5 turns with 5 extra food or 4 turns with 4 extra food. Watch F1 since you will need to raise the lux when Berlin grows to size 5.

handy900

May 18, 2004, 06:59 PM

The next 2 cities.

The yellow dot would capture the wheat, has some forest for chopping some culture, and will be low in corruption. It also pulls in 2 BG after expansion. Due S of wheat is ok with me also.

The red dot is on the river and pulls in the iron. No need for aqueduct, but will require lots of jungle chopping to be of any use. This will be a very unproductive city, and by no means is a priority to settle in the next 10 turns.

All of the Iron cities are kinda weak.

Any thoughts?

BTW - good Luck coletite! :goodjob:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HANDY_SG002_BC1750_pic.JPG

coletite

May 18, 2004, 07:55 PM

You're right about the red site, however it all depends on when we want iron. I don't see a rush for it in the next 10 turns, so my vote would be for the blue site. As far as all the jungle goes- I'd just as soon let the Russians take it then take their cities when we have the workers to clear the jungle. Of course, taking cities is much more difficult then founding them.

At any rate, the land to the NE is good and we need to take it before the Russians do.

Is there any way to make an educated guess as to which forest will yield a BG?

Should the next city (blue dot) start cranking out workers or do we want it to do settlers until Berlin gets rollin'? (I know it won't be a factory.)

handy900

May 18, 2004, 09:39 PM

Is there any way to make an educated guess as to which forest will yield a BG?
Not that I know of. Would be nice to know though! :D

Should the next city (blue dot) start cranking out workers or do we want it to do settlers until Berlin gets rollin'? (I know it won't be a factory.)

If playing solo, I'd build a warrior, then some workers. The team may have better ideas, so speak up. Berlin is still kicking settlers every 5 turns, which is still not too bad. We need some workers though. Berlin can build a warrior or spear escort now & again if it has to.

coletite

May 18, 2004, 09:43 PM

I'm getting nervous about barbs. So I think warrior then worker. I'm assuming we fortify the warrior since he won't do much good against barbs outside the city.

coletite

May 19, 2004, 02:00 AM

Pre Flight Check

Everything looks good… ready to hit enter!

IBT

Barbarians to the west are on the move
Berlin workerworker (until we get shield production up, we need to keep from reaching size 7, right?)

1725 BC (1)

Moved new worker to forest NE to try to find that BG
Move Franz W
Move settler N
Move Johan N
Hans sees French settler heading west.
Hans moves S

IBT

Franz defeats barbarian
Leipzig warrior  worker

1700 BC (2)

Dietrich (Leipzig warrior) moves S (headed to mountains just W of Berlin to watch for barbs)
Worker begins chopping forest NE of Berlin
Worker SW of Berlin roads
Founded Konigsberg. Crap!! Barb just outside borders to NE.
Konigsberg begins warrior
Franz moves S
Johann moves N- finds spice
Hans moves S- finds fur

IBT

Franz beats two barbs- promotes to Vet
Berlin worker  settler (I figure we need to get some settlers going- it could be a long time till we get that BG)
MM Berlin to grow in 2, build in 5

1675 BC (3)

New worker to wheat to connect Leipzig and hook up ivory
Dietrich S
Franz S (want to bait second barb in camp to attack)
Johann N
Hans S
Catharine and Joan have math

IBT

Franz beats barb (but not the second one in camp)
Camp barb moves NE
Barb outs Konig moves E!!

1650 BC (4)

Franz wipes out barb camp loosing 1 hp
Diet. S
Worker on wheat roads
Johann N- sees GH to N
Hans SW

IBT

Nothin’ much

1625 BC (5)

Lux up to 20% to keep Berlin from rioting
Franz SW
Worker SW of Berlin moves NE to clear forest.
Diet. N- Barb is heading toward Leip. Want to intercept in case it moves toward worker.
Johann pops hut- single barb
Hans W

IBT

Barb outside Konig has moved off our radar! (Luck!)
Barb moves towad Diet.

1600 BC (6)

Worker SW of Berlin begins to clear
Franz W- finds some nice land W of mountains
Johann beats barb (why didn’t it attack IBT?) and gets promotion to vet
Hans NW

IBT

English warrior appears S between Konigs and Berlin
Berlin settler  settler
MM Berlin to grow in 1 with no wasted food and produce in 4
Leibzig worker  worker
Hamburg warrior  worker

1575 BC (7)

Fort warrior in Hamburg (there are barbs nearby)
Note: we are strong compared to Russia (most important) and average to France and England.
Sending settler SW of Hamburg to river near russian border. Looks like good land and it will put the squeeze on Catharine- assuming we beat her to it.
Worker NW of Berlin moves toward Leipzig
Worker in Leipzig moves NE to begin irrigation
Franz SW
Jo W
Hans N
Got Writing from Joan for 2gpt and 90 gp (best deal, Russian wanted more)
Couldn’t get anyting out of England (and they’re #1!)
Lux to 0

IBT

English warrior moves E
Barb moves E toward Berlin

1550 BC (8)

Franz discovers little more of English border
Berlin will grow in 3, produce set in 3
Lux to 10%

IBT

Barb attacks Dietrich- we win

1525 BC (9)

Move Dietrich S to join settler
Elizabeth got writing

IBT

Nothin’

1500 BC (10)

Berlin is about to produce a settler and grow to six. I think I did OK with the MM
Settler is headed SW (see map)

Our score is 120

I hope I did OK!

coletite

May 19, 2004, 02:12 AM

Our rock:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/world.jpg

Here's where I was sending the settler:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/site1.jpg

TedJackson

May 19, 2004, 04:51 AM

Just to clarify how I think we should be able to run a 4 turn Settler Factory without another BG.

Here's Berlin at pop 5, The Red numbers indicate the tiles each citizen should work. I've indicated the 2 grassland tiles as A & B
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/TJ-SGM02-Berlin.jpg

At pop 5 with "A" mined we make +5fpt & 7spt giving a total of 14 shields in the box for pop 5.
At pop 6 with "A" mined and our 6th citizen working "B" we still make +5fpt & 7spt giving a total of 28 shields in the box for pop 6.
When we hit pop 7 we should get 2 extra shields (from a forest tile) to take us to 30 shields for the Settler and pop will drop back to 5.

If we want to be absolutely certain of hitting the shield total then we need only mine B after A. This would give us 8spt for pop 6 (16 in total) + the 14 shields from pop 5 to reach the magic 30 shields.

I hope this helps.

Ted

handy900

May 19, 2004, 07:30 AM

At pop 5 with "A" mined we make +5fpt & 7spt giving a total of 14 shields in the box for pop 5.
At pop 6 with "A" mined and our 6th citizen working "B" we still make +5fpt & 7spt giving a total of 28 shields in the box for pop 6.
When we hit pop 7 we should get 2 extra shields (from a forest tile) to take us to 30 shields for the Settler and pop will drop back to 5.

Just so I understand how this works, on the IBT between turn 4 & 5, we get the growth first - before production. This growth to size 7 allows citizen #7 to work a forest tile for the 2 shields, giving us 9 shields total on turn 4 (7+7+7+9=30).
Growth before Production is how we get a 4 turn settler. Correct?
Thanks for the lesson Ted. :worship:

I'll pull up the save when I get home. If that settler is unescorted we'll need to hook him up with the nearby yellow lined warrior in the picture.

Playing for score
This playing for score is a new concept to me, and perhaps we have not focused enough & that is why we are a little behind on the scoreboard.

Score is a function of tiles controlled & happy people. If we build cities 4 tiles apart CxxxxC then we’ll have lots of tiles in each city’s 21 radius that we will never work (since we won’t build hospitals). Also the CxxxxC lets each city only control 9 tiles until culture grows. So, 2 cities built CxxxxC control 18 tiles for score purposes until culture grows. If we build 3 tiles apart, CxxxC then the contiguous row of 3 tiles between cities will fill in automatically – allowing 2 parallel cities to control 21 tiles. This boosts the score a little, and over time alot.

If you’ve checked my signature you’ll see I play almost exclusively AW SG’s where we could care less about score – and always build cities 2 tiles apart for troop movement purposes, so city placement for score is not something I’ve ever focused on. If we place purely for score, we may wind up placing cities where they are not on a river. I’d be reluctant to do this in the “core”, but in 2nd ring cities, perhaps it makes sense. We should have a much larger tile count this way.
Something to consider.

Any comments are welcome – you won’t hurt my feelings. I want to see if we can bump our score a little without hurting our chances at a fast victory.

Play Order
1. Handy <-UP
2. Tinkez
3. Oddible
4. Ted
5. Coletite
maharaja <-Needs to check in so we can slot him. PM has been sent.

TedJackson

May 19, 2004, 08:33 AM

Just so I understand how this works, on the IBT between turn 4 & 5, we get the growth first - before production. This growth to size 7 allows citizen #7 to work a forest tile for the 2 shields, giving us 9 shields total on turn 4 (7+7+7+9=30).
Growth before Production is how we get a 4 turn settler. Correct?
Thanks for the lesson Ted. :worship:I should have posted this info at the end of my turn but I was a bit rushed :(

Playing for score
This playing for score is a new concept to me, and perhaps we have not focused enough & that is why we are a little behind on the scoreboard.

Score is a function of tiles controlled & happy people. If we build cities 4 tiles apart CxxxxC then we’ll have lots of tiles in each city’s 21 radius that we will never work (since we won’t build hospitals). Also the CxxxxC lets each city only control 9 tiles until culture grows. So, 2 cities built CxxxxC control 18 tiles for score purposes until culture grows. If we build 3 tiles apart, CxxxC then the contiguous row of 3 tiles between cities will fill in automatically – allowing 2 parallel cities to control 21 tiles. This boosts the score a little, and over time alot. I guess a lot depends on whether we can achieve domination by conquering our start continent. From the minimap that would appear to be a viable option so most of our territory will come from captures :)

We seem to have drifted a little in this early phase. I suspect that the other teams got their Settler Factory turning over a littler earlier than we did and are now reaping the benefit.

In some ways RCP (Ring City Placement) might be our best way to go. Not for the corruption benefit but rather for the (less) time taken for our settlers to reach their targets. The 4/4.5 ring is particularly useful here as it is quickly populated and is tight enough for military support to reach any site in 1 or 2 turns.

Our second ring should probably be in the 8/8.5/9 region for similar reasons, but we should be much readier to ignore strict RCP for sites that have resources or fresh water.

Hopefully by the time we've established a second ring we'll already be demanding territory from Russia (with menaces :)) so we can absorb their holdings without worrying too much.

Just my usual (random) thoughts :)

Ted

coletite

May 19, 2004, 01:52 PM

You know, I remember now about getting shields on the IBT. I didn't really understancd it then, but I do now. Sorry about not catching that sooner.

Dietrich is heading south to join up with the unescorted settler.

handy900

May 19, 2004, 06:24 PM

I got it.

AlanH's SGOTM scoreboard & download system rocks. :)

coletite

May 19, 2004, 06:47 PM

Isn't it too late for RCP? None of the three non-capitol cities are the same distance from the capitol.

handy900

May 19, 2004, 09:23 PM

Pre turn
coletiteYou did fine. :D A couple of things to watch for:
Berlin was pulling only 4 food, so when the settler pops next turn we will fall to pop 4. So, check Berlin every turn to make sure you have 5 extra food in Berlin. This way we will not ever drop to pop 4.
We should have been building a road to ivory, not irrigating below it.

Switch Leipzig to barracks. We can build military out of here and workers out of Konigsburg & future cities. We need someplace to supply escorts to Berlin’s Settlers.

IBT
Berlin – settler – warrior (the chop will finish him in 1

Turn 1 1475
Berlin will build a warrior in (chop coming in) and grow in 2. So it will still be off the 4-turn setter rotation. Scratch that. I’ll go for a 2-turn spear with the chop. Then the 4-turn settler rotation Ted described.
Settler starts towards river & flood plains N of the Ivory. That city has a lot of food, and should grow quickly once we irrigate. Worker production facility.
The next settler can go to the lake to the East of Berlin, which is a location that will need improvements before it can be a decent city. It can work the cow in the meantime.
Our best chance at horses is going to be way up north, or take them from Russia down south. Russia will settle Southern horses before we do. We do need to get that IRON S of Berlin on the 10 turns after mine.
Russia & France want 2gpt & 59 gold for HBR. I’ll wait.

IBT
2 barbs near Leipzig, some near Konisburg
Russia is building the Pyramids.
Hamburg -> worker -> barracks
Konigsberg -> warrior – Worker

Turn 2 1450
Worker stuff. – road to ivory begun.
Road to Spices begins next turn.
F1 looks good. Berlin has 5 food. :D

IBT
Berlin -> spear – settler (I have to MM to get 5 extra food. You’ll need to check Berlin each turn.)
English warrior dies attacking barb for us.
Leipzig & Konigsberg are going to have barb problems soon. The barbs now are riding horses.

Turn 3 1425
Turn luxury up so I can send a spear to cover the workers near the Ivory. It’s too easy for a barb horse to sneak up on them. May have to build another warrior in Berlin since we have no settler escorts.
Johann is returning home to help with barbs
Konigsberg is defended by a warrior, and will be attacked by a horse net turn. May as well give the gold to the French instead of the barbs.
Trade 1 gpt +60 gold to Joan for HBR

Turn 4 1400
Found Frankfurt -> worker on a river, but with a little buffer between Cathy & us.
Hanz spots barb camp
Pop Spear in Konigsberg. Barbs are swarming & would kill the worker anyway if I completed him.
F1 looks good.

IBT Konigsberg -> spear – worker

Turn 5 1375
England is bogged down in the Jungle.
F1 check – Berlin has grown, and needs to be MM’d to have 5 food.
It is size 6. Grows in 2 settler in 2.
Lux can stay at 20% since the Ivory road is completed. Spice road is a few turns away.
Johann can go to Berlin for MP duty. There is a lone spear in Berlin.
AI update – strong versus Russia; Average to France; Average to England.
Military advisor is warning of barbs near Konigsberg.
Cathy is down to 5gpt & 39g for Math.
Joan has mapmaking but won’t trade. She want’s our WP + 1 gpt + 30g for Math. No thanks.

IBT
Hanz & Johann kill barbs on defense. Hanz promotes.

Turn 6 1350
Munich founded -> worker
Konigsberg switched to barracks.
Kill barb camp for 25 gold. Hanz is elite.

IBT
Berlin – settler – warrior (we are out of escorts, and can get warriors in 1 turn at zero growth)
Lux goes to 10% for 2 turns.

Turn 7 1325
Steal Berlin’s spear for the settler escort.
Berlin builds a warrior on the IBT. Luxury tax can remain @ 10%

IBT
Johann goes elite on defense versus barb.
Berlin – warrior – settler
4 more turns to spices.
Turn 8 1300
:sleep:

IBT
England starts Pyramids

Turn 9 1275
:sleep:

IBT
Russia demands 24 gold. I give it. Not yet Cathy, your time will come.
Leipzig -> barracks – veteran warrior :) (get one every 5 turns)

Turn 10 1250
Settler can found by the lake next turn. Thank goodness the city is on a hill, there are barbs everywhere.
Berlin grows MM to get 5 food.
Luxury drops to 10% since Johann is now in Berlin to give us 2 MPs.

Notes:
* Watch out for barb horsemen. We cannot afford to lose any workers to these guys. If you have to stack up workers like I’ve done in the north and guard them, do it. If any worker is close to our borders they are in danger.
* We have a lot of GPT, we could bump luxury if we want to boost our score. Like I said, I’ve never played for “score” before. When we get incense & spices (2 turns) happiness will improve a lot.
* There are two workers building a road on forest between Berlin & Hanburg that finishes in 1 more turn. They could then chop the rest of Hamburg’s barracks. This would also help Hamburg’s food situation.
* The save has Konigsberg on a barracks. You may want to switch to worker, and use him to chop a barracks. Be careful though, and cover him with a warrior. There are loads of barb horsemen over there. This may be too risky.
* Best solution to the barb uprising that is coming is to keep pushing our borders back.
* I did not trade for math, but you may want to trade for math before you hit enter. You can get it for 2gpt and 96 gold from Cathy. Better than losing gold to the barbs, and it will keep her from declaring war while we are expanding. We already have trades going with Joan.
* * Joan has horses hooked up, and iron near her borders. Cathy has no iron hooked up and None visible to a CRTL+SHIFT+M inspection. Let’s settle next to grab the IRON S of Berlin before Cathy does. Then get the Incense Then we can settle some more in the north.
* We are 1 city ahead of Joan, 1 behind Cathy and Elizabeth. We settle 1 next turn so we will tie England & Russia.
Frankfurt Maybe switch to warrior. No way to safely get the worker out of there. The worker being built in Munich can join the northern stack.
Leipzig Please switch to warrior. I thought I picked that. :confused:
OK last Edit :lol: Remember - forest chop gets you 10 shileds only if the forest in the 21 tile radius of a city (don't need cultural city border expansion to get the 10 shield bonus). Jungle chops get no shields, save those for the slaves.
* Another Edit :rolleyes: Check to make sure we'll get the iron S of Berlin before you settle. Not sure we get auto-fill for cities that far apart.

Good Luck
Score is 151 at 1250 BC.

Pictures with settle ideas in next post.

Play Order
1. Handy
2. Tinkez <- UP :D
3. Oddible
4. Ted
5. Coletite
maharaja <-Needs to check in so we can slot him. PM has been sent.

>> SAVE 1250 BC << (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Handy_SG002_BC1250_01.SAV)

handy900

May 19, 2004, 09:27 PM

2 screenshots Cathy is too close to the Iron S of Berlin. We need to grab it for quickly for possible denial (in case she has no other sources.) We could also use some Iron. :lol:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HANDY_SG002_BC1250_pic2.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HANDY_SG002_BC1250_pic.JPG

coletite

May 19, 2004, 10:55 PM

Handy, well done. I think I've learned a few things and should be better off on my next turns.

Those two sites look great. I don't think you'll get a fill between the red dot and circle, however, since neither will produce any culture. Will the AI settle in there? I can't remember where they will and will not settle. Maybe we should get a temple in there (a library would be best, but we don't have lit..) to fill in. Just one city should do it. But it may not be that big a deal.

Is Joan looking pretty crowded? Sounds like Cathy's getting ansty since she demanded tribute). Do we need to start thinking about joining a war with Joan against Cath should one break out? If we get iron hooked up, we can upgrade to enough swords to hold our own if Joan is attacking as well. I wouldn't want to take the emphasis off settler production. But Leipzig could probably keep rolling out warriors. We would also want to start thinking about a road network to Russian border. (I know this probably won't come up right away, but might as well start discussing it.)

On the topic of settling. England is likely going to begn expanding N, right? After we get the red dot and circle sites founded, we should go ahead and make a mad dash for the northern territory. It is the best land that is near our capitol.

Note: I hope it goes without saying, but I'm not trying to pass myself off as an expert or anything. I'm just relaying what's on my mind and hope I come up with an occaisonal good idea. I've already learned a lot on this game.

Oh, and how long do we have to play this? Is it a month or does "SGOTM" just refer to a SG played on a GOTM map?

Tinkez

May 20, 2004, 06:16 AM

Hi guys!

I just returned back from a three day work-related trip. Seems that I'm up next. I'll catch up what has happened and play my turns later in the evening.

-Tinkez

Tinkez

May 20, 2004, 02:58 PM

Pre checks:

Trade territory maps with Joan and get 5gp. Trade math with Cathy for 94gp+2gpt. Hit enter.

IBT: Barbs don't attack, more appear.

1225BC(71):Found Heidelburg next to the lake. The place is a bit far from other cities, but after growth it'll cover a nice area.
Franz W, Hanz E,

IBT: Barbs move, none attacks :confused: Berlin settler->settler.

1200BC(72): Hanz E, Franz S, Settler with warrior escort heads towards incence. Northern 2*worker+spear move N to connect Munich and to allow faster movement to north when settling(no river movement penalty).

IBT: English found town SW of us, on the spot where Cathy was heading. Joan also founds new town.

1175BC(73):Hanz E, Franz S and sees english iron hill.

IBT: Barb attacks Cathy settler+warrior and redlines that warrior but dies. Barb horseman moves next to Hamburg where is only warrior as defence :(
Frankfurt builds worker, I'll gamble with him and build some improvements as the neighbours are so near -> probably less barbs.

1150BC(74):Hanz E, Franz NW. Frankfurt worker S. MM Berlin.

IBT:Barb horseman comes to threaten worker, have to pull him out of work as only defence would be warrior. Hamburg barracks->spear.

1125BC(75): Take Konigsberg warrior out for next settler escort. Our spear factory is still way too slow! Franz NW, Hanz E. Hamburg worker S. Can't make trades as Joan is still only one with map making. Barbs are threatening many cities and we have gold -> I'll establish embassies: English 38gp (pyramids in 66 turns!!).

IBT: Munich worker->barracks, Berlin settler->spear. Barb horse fortifies on mountain next to Hamburg. They do not want to attack?

1100BC(76):MM Berlin to produce 10 shields, forest chop will finish in 1 turn-> 1 turn spear. Hanz S, Franz NW. Settler begins journey to get iron E of Berlin; he meets up with escort on mountain top. Hannover founded on the incence.

IBT: Berlin spear -> settler. Worker finishes forest chop and reveals BG :D Cathy gets construction -> most likely trades that with Joan, as they both have Construction & MM. Elizabeth has MM too.

1075BC(77):Time for trading: Trade MM with Elisabeth to Math+HBR+1gp. Buy English territory map for 11gp. Trade territory maps with Cathy. Trade World maps with Joan and get 7gp. Sell World map to Elizabeth and get WM+37gp. End up getting map making, world map of the continent and 29gp. That was the best I could squeeze out of them. It's a big continent...

IBT: Leipzig spear -> spear. Nothing special.

1050BC(78):Establish embassy to Russia to see how long their Pyramids will take: 59turns! They will not build them for us in time...

IBT: Barb horse attacks Frankfurt, warrior wins! France builds Oracle and begins pyramids.

1025BC(79): Settler arrives on the spot. Nothing else.

IBT: Barbs attack, but we win them all :cool:

1000BC(80):Bremen founded. Franz founds barb camp and heals up. Workers up north need an other escort as 3 is not a good stack for irrigation.

Remarks: Start expanding to north, best territory is there. Build some military (veteran warriors), hook up the iron and get going. There is a barb horseman near Berlin, elite warrior (Johann) can attack him before he pillages. Leipzig could build a temple to expand territory and get second ivory for us. We can soon trade with Cathy as road finishes (do we want to? Prefer war!) Heidelburg is about to build warrior, change him to worker or something else? Polytheism is 6 turns away, looks ok for us.

That's it. Have fun!

-Tinkez

Tinkez

May 20, 2004, 03:01 PM

Oh, BTW:

The link:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Handy_SG002_BC1000_01.SAV

Our score is 190. I don't have now time for map editing and uploading, sorry :(

maharaja

May 20, 2004, 03:18 PM

Hi Everyone, This really sounds like we are going to have fun. First time I am ever playing a game like this.

I am the rookie for this game. I would like to be last after Coletite. I am just playing my second game that is on warload level. I won my first game but with very less point 632. In my second game I already captured america and right now war with ottoman, already captured their 2 cities.......I believe early war and then at the end when I got tanks etc. Please also tell me where can I get description for the abbreviation u guys used.....like RCP, ICS.

When I play then I can't get windows start option to run another program, so I save the game close it, open paint program, paste screen and start again.

Also please let me know when or how should I start the game, I mean when my trun will come? I will be out of the town on 5/22 & 5/23 (saturday & sunday).

After reading all this you can understand I am the weakest link of your Team.

handy900

May 20, 2004, 04:52 PM

Play Order
1. Handy
2. Tinkez
3. Oddible <- UP
4. maharaja <- I'm putting you here between two seasoned players. Welcome!
5. Ted
6. Coletite

maharaja - we'll post some specific instructons to help you during your turns since you since you are new to monarch level. :D

When I play then I can't get windows start option to run another program, so I save the game close it, open paint program, paste screen and start again.

Try opening paint before you open the game. Then hit the ALT+TAB key to cycle back & forth.

Leipzig We can build warriors alot faster than spears until the city gets bigger. We can build build warriors in Leipzig to escort Berlin's settlers about as fast as we can build settlers. We can build spears when the city gets bigger & pulls more shields. I hate to pop spears, but if the barbs get too thick we may have to in the corrupt cities.

Berlin You can also MM Berlin to build a 1 turn warrior with no growth @ pop 5 in a pinch. Mine the BG and we may be able to get warriors in 1 turn and grow. I'll open the save when I get home & take a peek.

Good Luck Oddible :D

Nice job Tinkez :goodjob:

Here a few thoughts - pipe up with comments | discussion | questions
We need more workers.
Some thoughts on our cities:
Leipzig You can get 4 turn warriors from here now.
We could build 1 warrior in Leipzig (4-turn), and in Berlin build a warrior in 1 (zero growth 10 shields) and then a 4-turn settler. This way every 5 turns we will have 2 warriors for each settler. The big barb uprising is coming soon. Anyone opposed to this for the next 10 turns? I’d like to keep forest around Berlin to chop a market. Leipzig grows in 5 turns, so it’s needs more irrigation.

Hanover Can’t grow past size 2 until tiles are improved. It should be switched to barracks, then pop a vet spear. After chops & improvements this will be a good city.

Konigsberg MM the city to work the BG so we pull 2 shields.

Bremen If we work the IRON tile, we can get barracks AND spear in 20 turns. It can’t grow without chopping some stuff anyway.

Munich Build workers here – and irrigate the flood plains.

Heidelburg & Frankfurt Warrior then workers, workers, workers.

Workers near Berlin need to build a road to the iron.

Soon both Konigsberg & Hamburg will be building spears. We can use these spears to fortify cities with only warriors in them.

Next cities - See dot map below

The red dot - with blue circle around it would auto-fill 5 tiles. It is not on a river though. The barb next to this dot is on a river. Either spot could work the BG. River or score…, score or river… Oddible can decide. :D This city also protects the road to the spices from pillaging.

Red dot yellow circle auto-fills 5 spots, and would be a decent 2nd ring city with some irrigation.

Red dot green circle will pull a lot of food, but the raging barbs will come from here, so we should wait for spears before we settle this one.

Red dot brown circle N of Berlin has a cow & the coast.

The two Red dots N of Berlin auto fill each other, have fresh water & food after irrigation.

Yellow Lower priority.

There is a lone spear fortified near Leipzig can escort the next settler.

handy900

May 20, 2004, 07:12 PM

1000 BC - see post above for dot legend :p

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HANDY_SG002_BC1000_pic.JPG

Tinkez

May 21, 2004, 05:17 AM

Leipzig can build warriors, that is fine. Then we can upgrade them after the iron is connected.

We should start gathering veteran warriors ready for the moment we get iron, then do a massive sword upgrade and attack Cathy. The tech race is going on and we want to take the advantage of swordsmen before pikemen. I have the following suggestion:

Berlin keeps building settlers, first one races to get the spot near Russia (yellow/red on Handy's map). Use the available spear to escort the settler there. Then start expanding north. The spot SW from Berlin could be settled, but rather let someone else take it and then later capture it. It's a lousy spot anyway without lots of jungle chopping, so there's no rush to take it. We need the workers elsewhere.

Leipzig builds warriors for escorts.
Konigsberg finishes barracks and begins pumping warriors.
Hamburg finishes spear then warriors.
Munich changes to workers, only them.
Workers connect iron asap (road the hill when connecting iron, easier to connect Konigsberg later).

After we have the swords, we attack and hope to get a leader. We will start expanding very fast now and we need forbidden palace soon. The first leader would be perfect to build that and get second core and allow a boost to production.

Opinions? :eek:

-Tinkez

maharaja

May 21, 2004, 08:02 AM

why are we building barrack in Munich, I think we should build one worker first who can work on tiles to connect near by iron to munich and then we can build one warrior, then barracks.....second are these the spearman fortified near Munich and Leipzig. What do you think we move them to where group of workers are working on tiles.

coletite

May 21, 2004, 04:54 PM

1) How many warriors do we want before we hook up iron? I.E: How many swords do we need to crush Cathy?

2) Do we want to align with Joan, or do we want to push strait through russia to france? In my opinion, getting rid of Joan as soon as possible is preferable. If left alone for too long she builds up a lot of culture which brings an increased risk of flipping. Not to mention musketeers.

3) What will our first target be? Take out border cities first or drive strait for the capitol. The later will be a more crippling blow and will make it more difficult for Cathy to launch an effective counter-strike.

handy900

May 21, 2004, 08:35 PM

Tinkez - You & I are in agreement on moves. :D

Where is oddible :( If he does not show soon, we will have to skip him/her.

Play Order
1. Handy
2. Tinkez <-played last
3. Oddible <---is up
4. maharaja
5. Ted
6. Coletite

Thoughts on the future:
I agree with Tinkez - Settle Red/yellow dot first.
Then I would settle red/blue next since it is a first ring city, and will buffer Berlin from barbs. If this was not raging barbs, I’d wait, but we need the buffer to allow workers to move more freely.
Build road to iron asap.
I like 12 swords minimum to go to war, prefer 16 with multiple cities in production. We are a ways off from that, which is okay. It’s easier to settle land than to take cities by force. We should be content to settle the north and root out barbs while we build our army. Remember, there is a massive barb uprising on the way, so we are already at war in a way.
We should discuss building embassies in the AI’s we do not plan to attack in the first war with Russia. In solo games I’d sign ROP’s so the other AI’s will not ally with Russia. We want them to sit idly by.
I think we go straight for Russia’s heart – Moscow. Take it, pop a settlers or workers to get pop down to 1.
It takes 3 turns to get 60 gold to upgrade swords. It is 60 gold on PTW – right? It’s 60 on C3C. The sooner we hook the iron up and just make swords from scratch, the better IMHO. We can use cash to buy techs.
Leader for FP sounds good. Second for GL or Pyramids.

coletite

May 21, 2004, 10:02 PM

I can't remember how much upgrading to swords cost, but I know that they increased it for C3C. I'll check the game when I get home before I make my vote for the upgrade/from scratch issue.

On another note, people keep talking about ring cities, but all of our cities are a differen't distance from the capital:

Leipzig=4
Hamburg=4.5
Konigsberg=5
Bremen=6
Heidelburg=7
Hannover=8
Frankfurt=9

Are we talking more in terms of "core" and "outer rim" cities? Because we are a long way off from RCP.

handy900

May 21, 2004, 10:23 PM

Are we talking more in terms of "core" and "outer rim" cities? Because we are a long way off from RCP.

Yes - that's what I mean. Core = 1st ring around Berlin - the closest and the least corruption.

coletite

May 21, 2004, 10:40 PM

Should we skip Oddible? It has been over 24 hours.

Is anyone really keen on culture fliping? I'm just wondering what the odds are of Moscow flipping after we capture it. Poping settlers and workers to thin out the Russian ranks sounds fine, but since we are playing for score, I don't want to reduce the population anymore than we have to. Hopefully, Russia will fall soon after the initial decleration. Does anyone feel up to drawing a battle plan? I can do one later tonight, but I'm still a novice at screen caps! :crazyeye:

[edit] Speaking of score, what can we do right now to increase our score without hampering our progress? Obviously expanding will be a major part of that. Next would be happiness, right? Do we want (or need) to use a little bit more of the lux slider than necassary to milk a few more happy people each turn? On the flip side, that gold can add up to major upgrades or purchasing tech which could pay off with an earlier finish and therefore a better score.

coletite

May 22, 2004, 12:55 AM

A preliminary battle plan (assuming war will break out soon):

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Handy_Battle_Plan.jpg

If we divide our forces at the start we can take out the small cities to the east. They shouldn't take many troops. In all, the plan is a no-brainer. But notice Smolnesk (not sure of the spelling), if English and/or French borders expand, we will have to cross through someone elses territory. What effect does this have on our plan? Do we leave one city for Russia or do we make that city a top priority with its own strike force? If we are planning on barreling through Russia to France, then it isn't a problem.

Resources: Russia has none. England has the nearest availabe iron, but it doesn't look like its hooked up yet. France isn't very close to their iron. My idea- Take Russia. Rest/regroup. Attack England along the west side depriving them of iron. Either continue to wipe them out, or make peace while we trounce the French. Meanwhile, move Hans to the iron in French territory to protect it from colonies. If France envelopes it in its borders, Hanz can move just outside and wait. When we attack France, he can scurry up and pillage any roads that may be on the iron.

On the sunject of conquest: if we take out Russia, England and France quickly, we may be able to wipe them out before they get contact with the othe continent tehreby saving our reputation. It may already be too late, but if galleys cannot reach the other continent, then this could be a good move.

TedJackson

May 22, 2004, 02:59 AM

It takes 3 turns to get 60 gold to upgrade swords. It is 60 gold on PTW – right? It’s 60 on C3C. The sooner we hook the iron up and just make swords from scratch, the better IMHO. We can use cash to buy techs..PTW is 40gp per Warrior (IIRC) as there's a 20 shield differential multiplied by the Gold to Shields Factor of 2.

Ted

TedJackson

May 22, 2004, 03:11 AM

On the subject of conquest: if we take out Russia, England and France quickly, we may be able to wipe them out before they get contact with the othe continent tehreby saving our reputation. It may already be too late, but if galleys cannot reach the other continent, then this could be a good move.This would be my choice of plan. Taking out our 3 nearest neghbours ASAP, perhaps pausing to revolt to Monarchy before tackling France :)

That would leave us free to develop the rest of our starting continent to our own liking, and maybe even let us win by domination without bothering about whatever other continents there are.

Research could be switched off once our immediate neighbours are dealt with and the excess gold spent on happiness producers whilst salting enough away to ensure our re-entry into the tech race if we have visitors.

Ted

handy900

May 22, 2004, 06:34 AM

Oddible is past the 24 hours he has to claim the game , so the game passes to maharaja. If Oddible turns up he can play after maharaja. If we don’t keep moving the game will bog down. maharaja post an "I GOT IT" when you get the game so we will know you are playing your 10 turns.

maharaja Earlier you said you have been playing warlord. Since you are new to monarch, if you have questions, stop during your turns, post your question with the sav file as an attachment, and we will answer you.

During your turns
If any other Civ demands tribute (example they demand you give them 30 gold or whatever, PAY IT! We are not ready for war - yet). Avoid war at all costs during the next 10 turns.
Check Berlin each turn to make sure it has 5 food. If you play a turn with less than 5 food it will mess up our settler factory.
* Protect our workers from barbs. Better safe than sorry. Remember, barb horses get 2 tiles per turn.

Take the following action in each of these cities:
* Hanover Can’t grow past size 2 until tiles are improved. It should be switched to barracks, then pop a vet spear.
* Konigsberg MM the city to work the BG so we pull 2 shields in this city.
* Hamburg – build warrior after the barracks completes.
* Bremen Work the IRON tile, we can get barracks AND spear in 20 turns.
* Munich Switch to build workers here. Send the worker to a safe location (protected by a spear)
* Heidelburg & Frankfurt Finish the current warrior builds, then build workers.
Workers near Berlin need to build a road to the iron ASAP so we can build swords.

coletite

May 22, 2004, 08:45 AM

Handy- When you say "pop a spear" you mean pop rushing, right? Just want to make sure I'm clear on the lingo.

handy900

May 22, 2004, 08:59 AM

Handy- When you say "pop a spear" you mean pop rushing, right? Just want to make sure I'm clear on the lingo.

Yes.

Typically I avoid this, but given raging barbs, and the massive jungle, it seems an okay play for this city.

coletite

May 22, 2004, 09:02 AM

What is the ETA for war?

When we get embassies established, could the player post a screen cap of Moscow? I'd like to see what we're dealing with.

Oddible

May 22, 2004, 03:13 PM

Got it. Will try to get my turns in this afternoon, if not, then definitely tomorrow early. We're not really pressed for space so I don't see any imperative to go to war (except to knock down a foe early). My biggest concern would be having all our offense embroiled in a war when the age change happens. I like the yellow red dot but the blue red doesn't excite me too much. Its inner ring, but won't really be a producer until a lot of work has been done - also, its got a line of mountains on the far side which will make it impossible for England to defend if they settle there. Would love to get some coastal action going on but of course there are some barb worries over there. What do you guys think of using a city as a barb sponge? Basically spend all our cash right after the age change and undefend a city and lure the barbs into it. They all disappear and we lose almost nothing.

Also, how about westward expansion? Clearly we want to expand north and northeast but if we drop a city over on the west somewhere we can block England's northern route - basically make them have to cross our land if they try to expand into our norther area (not a priority or anything, just some ideas)...

handy900

May 22, 2004, 03:22 PM

Play Order
1. Handy
2. Tinkez <-played last
3. Oddible <-Has Got it
4. maharaja <- plays next
5. Ted
6. Coletite

Oddible

May 22, 2004, 08:48 PM

.................................................. .....................

The Save - Handy_SG002_BC0750_01.SAV (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Handy_SG002_BC0750_01.SAV)

Firaxis score: 238
Jason score: 182
.................................................. .....................

Pre

Per suggestion from Handy / Tinkez:
Liepzig switch spear->warrior in 2
Konigsberg MM to BG
Hannover switch spear->barracks in 16
Munich switch barracks->worker in 6

IBT

Berlin settler->settler in 4 with growth in 2 MM
Heidelburg warrior->worker

Barbs advance on our workers at Berlin

975BC - 1 - Turn 81

Johann kills barb at Berlin
Warrior kills barb at Hannover
Spear comes back for Berlin, Settler and spear leave for the south.
Munich workers sent to Leipzig

Franz kills barb
Russia has a settler just outside Heidelburg

Lux to 0%

IBT

Leipzig warrior->warrior
Konigsberg barracks-warrior

950BC - 2 - Turn 82

Berlin workers to iron

Franz takes barb camp +25g

Ugh, Konigsberg doesn't want to settle down. They're pissed about the whip. They want us to go to 30% luxury at a loss of 9gpt. Forget it, Entertainer (0 growth - need that grain irrigated).

IBT

Elizabeth wants to trade territory maps. I give her an old map of our territory for her world map.

Barb attacks Konigsberg, dies.

Joan builds us an Embassy

925BC - 3 - Turn 83

Construction still to pricey (WM 7gpt +194g)

Trade Joan 180g + 1gpt for Philosophy

We're the strongest army that we know of.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Handy_SG002_Strong.jpg

Our culture is starting to lag.

Lux to 0%

IBT

Russians build Tblisi on the north coast.

Barb attacks Konigsberg, dies.

Frankfurt warrior->worker

900BC - 4 - Turn 84

Bremen switch to Barracks

IBT

Berlin settler->settler (MM 2/4 factory)
Leipzig warrior->warrior (in 3, grew to 4)
Hamburg warrior->warrior

875BC - 5 - Turn 85

Send settler to sw, decided that our score would benefit from the city placement though the city isn't going to much for a while.

MM Konigsberg back to full employment

IBT

Joan asks to trade World Maps, I trade her territory maps instead just to be friendly.

Barb attacks settler to the south, spear defends.

Philosophy->Monarchy

Munich worker->worker

850BC - 6 - Turn 86

Settle Stuttgart ->warrior

Russian scout seen going north.

Science to 70% - Monarchy in 28 (+1)

Trade Joan Polytheism for Construction + WM + 80g
Trade Cathy Poly for Code of Laws + WM + 10g

IBT
~

825BC - 7 - Turn 87

Warrior kills barb in sw

MM Berlin to stay at 5f

IBT

Leipzig warrior->warrior

800BC - 8 - Turn 88

Settle Bonn ->worker

Hanz got settled behind French lines.

IBT

Joan is in a tizzy about trapping Hanz, we agree to leave.

Hannover is attacked, our defender falls, pillaged. (I should have attacked - missed it).

Berlin settler->settler
Konigsberg warrior->warrior

775BC - 9 - Turn 89

Sending new Konisberg warrior to Hannover.
We should send a warrior or two to pop these barb camps in the ne and we'll be in good shape for the coming onslought. Also its 25g per so some good income.

Settler is heading for the coastal river delta in the ne.

IBT

Joan kicks Hanz out. He goes north (thankfully)!
She has horses hooked up.

Hamburg warrior->warrior

750BC - 10 - Turn 90

Science to 90%, Monarcy in 16 (-4gpt)

Parting thoughts

Everything is going pretty well, the barbs weren't a major factor for me as I think we've got a good system of defenders going. Whoever follows, just remember that the barb horses attack at 2 but defend at 1 so if you see one in range, attack it if you are only a warrior. Also, Berlin is not a passive player, you pretty much have to be in there every turn making sure things are working (5 food per turn).

Konigsberg is going to be rockin but needs some work - that barb camp has got to go. I've left 2 warrior up there that can be stacked to knock it out. I'm moving the warrior from Bremen to Hannover. Also, Hannover has the spice so we should hook that up when the workers are done with the iron.

Leipzig can stay on warriors to cover the settlers from Berlin. That's working out pretty well.

BTW, our infrastructure is starting feeling pretty good. Travelling across our over 12 x 12 square empire is pretty quick. If we're planning a conflict with Russia, then we need a good roadway to Frankfurt and Stuttgart and some beginnings of roads leading south from there. Bring some workers along with the invading force as well.

I'm a wee bit concerned about the horses in the north and think that getting someone up there might not be a bad idea in the near future. Russia is starting to plant settlers pretty far afield and she's already scoped out the map with her scout.

Iron in 3.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Handy_SG002_Rank.jpg

.

Oddible

May 22, 2004, 08:49 PM

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Handy_SG002_750BCMap.jpg

Oddible

May 23, 2004, 01:54 AM

When I play then I can't get windows start option to run another program, so I save the game close it, open paint program, paste screen and start again.

I use Gadwin Print Screen, it's free. I heard about it somewhere else on the forum, don't recall where...

http://www.gadwin.com/printscreen/

You just hit the Print Screen button on your keyboard and it will save the screenshot in a folder for you (you can preset the folder and save settings like jpg compression, etc).

mad-bax

May 23, 2004, 02:01 AM

I think maharaja may have been referring to not being able to print the screen and then paste it into another program without shutting down Civ. If this is the case maharaja, simply do this...

Start your pain program first.
Start your notepad type program second.
Start Civ third.
When you get to a situation where you want to take a screenshot or write some notes, hold down the ALT key and press TAB. Each time you hit tab, you will cycle between Civ, notepad and paint.

Edit: Having said that I just downloaded this program and it's great. :thumbsup:

Tinkez

May 23, 2004, 04:51 AM

Do we want to research Monarchy in 16 turns? We've been discussing war preparations and we will have a massive warrior upgrade coming up soon, so we should get some gold ready for that. The iron will be hooked up in 3 turns, so after that we'll build only swordsmen. We currently have 13 warriors, about half of them are veterans or elite. That means 7*40=280gp for veteran upgrades. 2 warriors are ready soon, 80gp more. Also most of the warriors are scattered all over our territory and outside. They should be moved to the core for upgrading.

Maharaja -> During your turns start preparing for sword upgrades by moving warriors to cities with barracks, so they can be upgraded. Also keep producing warriors on cities that have barracks.

If others agree, pull the science down to get gold for the upgrades.

One settler should be reserved to settle on the spot just south of Moscow, there are 3 cows just waiting to be utilized. If and when we get a leader, we should build the FP south of Berlin as we'll get most cities there in the near future.

Posted by Coletite:
When we get embassies established, could the player post a screen cap of Moscow? I'd like to see what we're dealing with.
I established embassy with Cathy during my turns, she's building pyramids and at that point it was 59 turns at 1050BC.

handy900

May 23, 2004, 08:39 AM

Play Order
1. Handy
2. Tinkez
3. Oddible <- just played
4. maharaja <- UP
5. Ted
6. Coletite

remember to check Berlin each turn to make sure it has 5 extra food.

If you are not sure where to settle, hold up and we can post a screen shot for you. I think it was oddible who suggessted we grab the northern horses, and I agree 100%. There is also a lake up there near the horses for fresh water.

Keep settleing and building swords. Veteran swords only please - no regulars. :D

Oddible

May 23, 2004, 12:51 PM

handy900

May 23, 2004, 04:37 PM

I'm of two minds on this. On one hand it would be great to get into a war before pikes and capture the Russian lands (especially the new Tblisi), but on the other, there is a lot of land still up for grabs and so knocking down the low man (Russia) doesn't seem to be an imperative. If we get Monarchy in 16 then we'll be done with anarchy in about 20 (total) at which point we'll be eager for a war and will be able to sustain a long one. Also, we will have built several swords in 20 so when upgrade time comes we'll already be producing. If we hit Russia soon, then we take Russian lands but will have to pull up short there. In Monarchy, there will be no stopping us from carrying our war to France or England (as we'll have stacks of Swords already on their doorstep).

FWIW
I like the idea of grabbing all of the land we can, and going to war later rather than sooner. It seems easier & more shield efficient to settle land than to take it. More land for us less land for barbs, and more free unit support in Monarchy. Cathy may make the decision for us and declare when there is no room left for them to settle. I'm with the team, but I'd settle first, attack second. If we accumulate 16 veteran swords on the Russian border while we are settleing, then we can go ahead & kick off the war. All thoughts & opinions are welcome. :D

We do need to get those horses asap as Oddible mentioned.

Play Order
1. Handy
2. Tinkez
3. Oddible <- just played
4. maharaja <- UP
5. Ted
6. Coletite

remember to check Berlin each turn to make sure it has 5 extra food.

TedJackson

May 23, 2004, 04:58 PM

I agree,

with Monarchy being so close it makes sense to delay war if we can.

Ted

handy900

May 23, 2004, 09:33 PM

Taking a peek @ the SGOTM Scoreboard (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm_submission_list.php) , we are 3rd of the 7 teams that have posted through 750bc.

Of the other teams we look to be ahead of 2 and trailing 3. A little hard to tell until they post their scores. We (at least temporarily) have passed some teams we were behind early on.

FWIW, we gained +48 points from 1000bc to 750 BC, which was the largest net point increase of the teams that have posted scores so far on those 2 dates. :D

I can't tell from the scoreboard which teams are playing variants like AW which would be hurting their scores.

maharaja

May 24, 2004, 07:52 AM

Hello Team, I will start playing tonight (Monday). I have couple question:

1. what's MM & BG means
2. From where should I download latest save file, in this thread itself or from 750BC st scoreboard.
3. Do I need to slide down science or should I leave it as it is.

More questions I may be ask once I will look the map.

Thanks for ur ideas for paint etc. I play at night only. As you guys said I will try to upgrade warriors into swordsman as we got iron.

Till now Good Job Team. Wish me luck.

TedJackson

May 24, 2004, 08:00 AM

MM: Micro-management, controlling which tiles are worked by a town's citizens on a turn-by-turn basis.

BG: Bonus grassland tile, (2.1.0) before any improvements.

Keep science as high as possible in order to get to Monarchy ASAP.

Good luck.

Ted

handy900

May 24, 2004, 08:01 AM

Hello Team, I will start playing tonight. I have couple question:

1. what's MM & BG means
2. From where should I download latest save file, in this thread itself or from 750BC st scoreboard.
3. Do I need to slide down science or should I leave it as it is.

More questions I may be ask once I will look the map.

Thanks for ur ideas for paint etc. I play at night only. As you guys said I will try to upgrade warriors into swordsman as we got iron.

Till now Good Job Team. Wish me luck.

MM = Micro manage
BG = Bouns Grassland (2 shileds & 2 food when there is a mine on it)

In Berlin you will want to make sure you have a citizens working both the irrigated tiles and the mined grass tiles so you get 5 extra food per turn. You can MM a city by double clicking the city to open it, or hit F1 to see the city list & click the city name you want to MM. Do you need us to post a screenshot to help you see what we mean about 5 extra food?

Berlin will create a settler every 4 turns if you make sure it has 5 extra food per turn. You should check this every turn. If you don't it will only pull 4 extra food when it grows from 5 to 6 population because the city governor will assign the citizen to the wrong tile. It is your responsibility to reassign him.

Do you know where to send the settlers that will be created on your turns, or do you want a screen shot?

You can download from either the scorboard or this thread by clicking on the 750 BC score. Oddible's link in this thread should be the same file.

EDIT Cross post with Ted - :D If Ted says keep science high, keep it high.

:thumbsup: Good Luck

TedJackson

May 24, 2004, 08:09 AM

@ Maharaja: If you're unsure about which tiles to work in Berlin than have a look at the screenshot > here < (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=1849658&postcount=60) which has the necessary tiles numbered.

Edit: Handy and I seem to be cross-posting so I'll stop for a while to save confusing things :)

Ted

maharaja

May 24, 2004, 08:22 AM

Thanks guys,

5 extra food = Total food - (no. of citizen * 2)

Am I right? if it's different let me know......I don't know where to send the settlers? is it marked in screen shot?

edit:I will check screen shot later today...

maharaja

May 24, 2004, 08:27 AM

ok, I checked the screen shot and got the tiles workers are supposed to work...at B should we mine ?..in that screenshot one settler is moving towards NE or NW I am not sure.....I believe it was a old screen shot.....right?

TedJackson

May 24, 2004, 08:48 AM

Thanks guys,

5 extra food = Total food - (no. of citizen * 2)That's right!

I don't know where to send the settlers? is it marked in screen shot?Here's a couple of screenshots from the 750BC save marked with what I consider the 3 most important sites.

Northeast
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGM02-Handy-BC750-Northeast.jpg
This site has a lot of growth potential and will also disperse the barb camp.

Northwest
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGM02-Handy-BC750-Northwest.jpg
Both sites are on fresh water. 1 will capture the Horses and 2 will hopefully prevent Russia from expanding North.

Comments from the rest of the team are welcome. I just put these together quickly to help Maharaja so it's possible I've missed something important :)

Ted

TedJackson

May 24, 2004, 08:51 AM

ok, I checked the screen shot and got the tiles workers are supposed to work...at B should we mine ?It's not strictly necessary but it could be done if there are workers in the area.

...in that screenshot one settler is moving towards NE or NW I am not sure.....I believe it was a old screen shot.....right?Have a look at my previous post for some up-to-date ideas :)

Ted

handy900

May 24, 2004, 10:56 AM

Ted's sites look excellent. Settle the #1's first. :D

You could upgrade the warriors near the barb camp to swords to escort the settler to this barb heavy environment. We have iron hooked up in 3 more turns, right?

Also - from the screenshot it looks like Hanover needs a warrior, it is undefended.

Why is there a spear standing next to Munich? If he has workers under him, they should irrigate the flood plains so the city will grow in 7. That way we get a worke in 10, and growth in 7. Over time the city will grow even as it kicks out workers.

maharaja

May 24, 2004, 11:56 AM

Handy Which no. 1? There is two number 1.

One in NE side and another One in NW side near by Horse.

TedJackson

May 24, 2004, 12:28 PM

Use the existing Settler (near Konigsberg) to settle the NE spot & the Settler (due from Berlin soon) to settle the Northwest site (Horses).

Ted

Oddible

May 24, 2004, 01:17 PM

Right, the settler near Konigsberg goes northeast to the #1 near the river up there. I would just stack the 2 warriors up there and go knock out that barb camp quick before anyone gets to the middle ages. Keep them in the forest for cover.

The spear near Munich can be used to cover the settler that you send to the horses. Was there for workers but the workers went inland so I decided to just leave him there for later.

After the workers are done with the Iron, you'll probably want to finish the road to Hannover to get the spices hooked up. Other workers are just connecting cities and improving so that's up to you.

EDIT: Actually Hannover has incense not spices.

5 extra food in Berlin. Want to be growing every 2 and building a settler every 4. Watch the happiness, a good ground rule is to keep 2 units in Berlin to keep it producing.

---

Oh yeah, kudos to everyone for getting some serious scoring potential going. The settler factory is a major factor, well done!

maharaja

May 24, 2004, 09:13 PM

Berlin producing 17 fpt, 9spt for POP 6. Is this MM ok?

Leipzig build one warrior now it's building another warrior in next 3 turn.
Heidelburg just produced worker I am planning to move this worker to build Road at RD and this city is building another worker (should I switch it to warrior...I have stopped here)

I have 2 plans for workers W.
Plan A-move them to build road so that Bonn can coonect with hamburg and Berlin
Plan B-move them towards NE to build road to connect Konigsberg

I am also planning to build warrior in Bremen once Barrack is completed
I am also planning to move one warrior near by Konigsberg to Hannover
Once workers working on iron are done I am planning to build road in the next tile to connect Bremen with Iron as well with Berlin

What Franz is doing near by Tblisi?

Any thoughts?

Oddible

May 24, 2004, 10:52 PM

Franz is just hanging out by Tblisi - figured I'd leave him there for any opportunistic romping if a war with Russia was immenant, but he could go anywhere. It would seem more important to hook up the incense in Hannover than Bremen so my priority would be Hannover first. The warrior from Bremen was on his way to Hannover but do what you like. I was suggesting stacking the other two together to knock out the barb camp by Konigsberg but again, your prerogative. Heidelburg should not produce a warrior unless it has a barracks.

My 2c.

Have fun!

EDIT: On second thought, probably a good idea to hook up Bremen as it's barracks is almost complete and it would be great to have the iron there!

Cheers.

EDIT x2: Jeesh, Actually Franz is returning home by Tblisi, the warrior down in the sw was hanging out (Hanz?)

handy900

May 24, 2004, 11:41 PM

You do not need to road the mountain NE of the goat to connect Konigsberg. The hill E of the goat has a road. Build a road N of that hill where your eastern "R" is and the city is connected.

If you have already played, then no big deal.

maharaja

May 25, 2004, 07:41 PM

Move warrior towards NE to kill the barb. as settler moving there to found city

Bremen just produced barracks, select to produce warrior here. one horse barb is coming towards Konigsberg

Moving Franz towards Heidelburg and moving one warrior towards Leipzig

710BC worker finished road to bring iron

Barb Horse attacked on Konigsberg, he got killed by our spearman. Berlin produced Settler, will move this settler towards NW

Konigsberg produced warrior again this city is producing warrior

Pop of Berlin reduced to 5 again did MM to make 5 extra food sheild reduced from 9pt to 7pt

start settler moving towards NW accompanying with one spearman

Move unit (settler & spearman) in stack towards NW, mistake only spearman moved....hope no barb. attack on our settler

Leipzeg has produced warrior, will build swordsman in 8 turn, Hamburg too produced warrior, will now produce Swordsman

Frankfurt produce worker, will produce again worker

Attacking won barb hut, have to clean this place to build new city, crossed my finger. Before thar upgrading warrior to swordsman. It cost 40 gold so dropped idea this turn as we are making -5 per turn

ok attacked killed one barb there is another horseman will take chance next turn, can't move settler & spearman risk here

taking chance upgrading warrior to swordsman

Berlin Pop increase to 6, generating +5fpt and 9spt again

Heidelburg is now connect with Berlin, moving this gropu of workers towards Munich

Move spearman near by Munich towards Berlin to accompany Settler will be ready in next 2 turn

Moving workers near by Berlin towards Hannovar

Now taking risk and attacking barb hut, we can warrior too....no attack there are now two horse barb moving our swordsman there and moved back settler & spearman inside border, now risk of loosing warrior if horse barb attacked

Asked to enter or press spacebar, next advisor screen poped-up was not good......Now advice me (in the previous turn it was ok or maybe I overlooked the mood.......Need help here

I scrwed, Can't save without saying a word to Advisor.......going to press will deal later and then change one worker to entertainer as I don't know what AI will do if press second option

Changed two worker to entertainer, will change back to worker one it restored.....sorry guys...Need your Help here
I am at 630 BC, score 268 I don't know Jason score........still 5 more turn to play

handy900

May 25, 2004, 07:51 PM

When Berlin grew from 5 to 6 population the citizens rioted due to unhappiness. You can fix this by increasing the luxury tax.

You may not have encountered this @ warlord, but at higher levels your citizens are very demanding - they must be kept happy. :)

If you will attach the save file at 630bc, I (or another team member) can look at it & be more specific about what you need to do.

Don't worry, this is how you learn to play better. Let us show you what to do. You did the right thing to stop and ask for help. :goodjob:

coletite

May 25, 2004, 07:52 PM

Manage the Luxury slider (F1) up until Berlin is happy. We need to keep all citezens working to keep the factory on schedule.

EDIT: Cross posted with Handy

maharaja

May 25, 2004, 09:20 PM

save file is attached......once I will be done tomorrow where should I upload the file...Thanks guys for supporting & encouraging me.... :)

TedJackson

May 26, 2004, 02:12 AM

I've had a quick look at the save and, as Handy & Coletite have said, all you need to do is raise the luxury tax to 10% on the F1 advisor screen and then put Berlin's citizens back to work.

Edit: Those 2 vet Warriors should be enough to wipe out the Horse & barb camp (Northeast of Konigsberg) so that you can get on and settle up there.

Ted

handy900

May 26, 2004, 07:22 AM

Thanks for looking at the save Ted, real life caught up to me last night.

maharaja - let us know if you have any more questions.

Oddible

May 26, 2004, 10:01 AM

handy900

May 26, 2004, 11:34 AM

Hey maharaja, I think the problem with Berlin is not the luxury slider but that there is only 1 defender in the city. For a city of size 5 or 6 you need to have 2 units in there to surpress the population or they get really unhappy....

This is a better long term solution, but bump the luxury slider until you can send another warrior over to Berlin. We want all citizens in Berlin working.

EDIT BTW, once the incense is hooked up we will hace 3 luxuries & the unhappiness problems for size 6 cities will go away.

handy900

May 26, 2004, 07:19 PM

How are your turns coming maharaja?

Here are 2 screenshots in case you need then to control the unhappiness in Berlin.

STEP 1 Open Berlin and work these tiles. make sure you have 17 food as shown. 17 food - [2 food * 6 citizens] = 5 extra

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HANDY_SG002_BC630_step1.JPG

Step 2 Move the luxury slider up 10 10%. You can move research to 80%, or can run a deficit the rest of your turns.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HANDY_SG002_BC630_step2.JPG

If you do not hapve the "citizen mood badge" mod installed to show happy faces, you can find it at the Citizen Mood Badge (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10197) thread. I can't play without it.

maharaja

May 26, 2004, 08:12 PM

Handy thanks....I have finished my turn but at the end I didn't realize and pressed "enter spacebar button" which changed the year from 550 BC to 530BC.

I believe we are supposed to switch after every 10 turns. Massive barb. attacked on us and I don't think I can deal this situation......Some how I tried to avoid their attack....can I upload this game for the next player or I need to continue for next 10 turn, in this case can someone more experienced contd. playing............in my games that "enter spacebar option" never come to change the year........

Numbers written in snapshot dpicts total barb. on that tile.

Advice me.

maharaja

May 26, 2004, 08:15 PM

increase entertainment and attacked barb. hut, one of our warrior killed, there is new horse barb. appeared next to hut

restored Berlin, Bremen produce warrior, next build warrior

Military advisor screen poped-up for barbarian uprising near Hannover but I can't see anything

I moved warrior to the tiled we are supposed to build next city...oops next tiles become visible with barb galleys waiting for us

Move another warrior into another tile some more tiles become visible with barb & barb hut. Moved back our settler & spearman....can't loose them

Another horse barb waiting for us at NW...not moving settler

horse barb attacked on our warrior, warror killed him but....new barb hut I just discovered started moving horse barb & barb....believe me guys I saw first time in my life so many barb moving together..they must be 15-20....if they don't attacked our warrior I am going to move him back to our border......something terrible is going to happen soon......

Berlin just build another Settler but we don't have enough warrior/spearman/military so just for time-being building one swordsman in next 4 turn.....

I saw 25 barb./horse moving towards Konigsberg and cultural advisor screen poped-up Russian are building The Great Libarary..Clicked same screen this time French are building Great Library...clicked next screen Japanese city of Kyoto has completed a great project...pyramid

it seems barb doesn't want us to Build city at NE I moved warrior back and they all disappeared

20-25 Barb attacked us near Konigsberg our warrior killed 3 horse barb before killed by Barb.....now they are lining up near Kenigsberg...

They also surrounded our settler & spearman moving towards NW...this time that culture advisor poped up again---Russian are building The Great Libarary..Clicked same screen this time French are building Great Library...clicked English building great wall

English city completed Great Wall

Barb are going to attacked us...they are more in number then our military so I am not attacking them just defending from them by going back.......

Heidelburg has produced warrior now I selected Spearman because I can't see warrior on list.....if you guys want you can switch....

My turn over, *sigh of relief * updated file is attached in this thread.

handy900

May 26, 2004, 09:16 PM

My turn over, *sigh of relief *

Come on now - that was fun wasn't it. :lol:

You should have stopped @ turn 550, but 530 is ok. Just be careful next time not to hit the spacebar. I uploaded the 530bc file to the scoreboard.

The Massive barb uprising was bound to come eventually.

Play Order edit 5-22-04
1. Handy
2. Tinkez
3. Oddible
4. maharaja
5. Ted <- UP
6. Coletite

Good Luck Ted. Since you only got 9 turns last time, take please 11 if you would like to. Other teams are posting scores out of perfect turn order, so it's not a big deal.

Leipzig has some extra warriors to help deal with the barbs, and also to escort settlers, so switch Berlin from sword to settler. You appear to have the cash to upgrade 2 warriors to swords. Good luck with the barbs :)

I don't see a need to rush to war. There is a lot of land left for us to settle.

This is not too bad for 530 BC. :goodjob:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HANDY_SG002_BC530_demo.JPG

TedJackson

May 27, 2004, 02:02 AM

OK,

I see it, I'll pick it up later today.

Ted

maharaja

May 27, 2004, 07:27 AM

ya Handy, it was fun until Barb was not there in such a large number...... :D

TedJackson

May 27, 2004, 07:36 AM

Ok,

I've got it and am playing now :)

Ted

handy900

May 27, 2004, 07:46 AM

ya Handy, it was fun until Barb was not there in such a large number...... :D

The "raging barbs" always kicks out a large stack of barbs at some point. I always play this in solo non AW games just to add some excitement. :D

The AI has to deal with it also. You want to avoid having much gold in the bank when the uprising comes, in case they pillage a city.

TedJackson

May 27, 2004, 09:20 AM

SGM02-Handy 530BC

Pre-flight checks...
Berlin switches to Settler (from Sword)
Lux 0% (from 20%)
Research 100% (shaves 1 turn off Monarchy)
We have 3 Settlers hanging around doing nothing but costing money so I'm going to be aggressive with getting them to their sites. Even if we lose one to barbs we'll be better off.

If the worst comes to the worst then I'll move all the defenders out of Konigsberg and let the barbs sack the town in order to disperse them.

1 - 530BC
Settler & Spear + Warrior escort (Leipzig) head for 3N of Berlin
Settler & Sword + Warrior escort (Konigsberg) N
Settler & Spear + Warrior escort (NNW Munich) SW - heading for alternate site

IBT
Spears at Konigsberg fend off 5 barb Horse - 1 Spear promotes
Berlin Settler - Settler
Leipzig Sword - Sword
Hamburg Sword - Sword
Konigsberg Warrior - Warrior
Hannover Barracks - Warrior
Bremen Warrior - Spear

2 - 510BC
Settler & escorts (N Konigsberg) E - run into another horde of barb Horses :(
Settler (Berlin) heads for Heidelberg - settle Cattle & Spices ?
Settler & escorts arrive 3N of Berlin
Settler & escorts (2NW Munich) W - spot barb Warrior & Horse
Sword (Leipzig) NE then kills barb on mountain promoting to elite

IBT
Konigsberg fends off 5 barb Horse
Sword (2NE Konigsberg) fends off barb Warrior & 2 Horses, promotes to elite (4/5)

3 - 490BC
Sword (2NE Konigsberg) kills barb Horse - opens route to target site
Settler & escorts (2NE Konigsberg) N
Settler & escorts (West of Munich) NW
Salzburg founded 3N Berlin
Lux 90% (still Monarchy in 2)
Buy WM from England for WM + 2gp
Buy WM from France for WM + 3gp
Sell WM to Russia for WM + 1gp
Sell WM to England for WM + 5gp
Sell WM to France for WM +1gp
Net profit of 2gp :)

IBT
Sword kills 2 barb Horses then dies to the third
Warrior dies to barb Horse
Warrior fends off 3 barb Horses and promotes to elite
Konigsberg fends off 3 barb Horse and Spear promotes to elite
Frankfurt Worker - Barracks

4 - 470BC
Settler & escort (NE of Konigsberg) E (river mouth site)
Settler & escort (NW of Leipzig) N
Settler & Warrior escort (Heidelberg) S
Workers move to S Konigsberg - ready to start road
Research 80% (Monarchy this turn)
Hawk WM for 2gp

IBT
Sword kills barb Horse (Salzburg)
Spears kill 2 barb Horse (Konigsberg)
Discover Monarchy, start Currency

5 - 450BC
Dortmund founded
Settler & escort (NW of Leipzig) NE
Settler & Warrior escort (S Heidelberg) SW
MM Berlin for +5fpt
Upgrade vet Warrior (Leipzig)
Hawk WM for 2gp
After a bit of thought...
Sell Monarchy to France for Currency, Literature & 245gp
We get Monotheism as our free tech...
Buy Engineering from Russia for Monotheism + 106gp
Sell Monotheism to France for 334gp
We now have 514gp in the Bank and a tech lead:)
Switch Research to Feudalism @10%

IBT
Barbs mill about but don't attack
Berlin Settler - Settler
Konigsberg Warrior - Warrior
Munich Worker - Barracks
Incense online

6 - 430BC
Settler & escorts arrive on site (NW of Munich)
Settler & Warrior escort (S of Heidelberg) SW
Upgrade 3 vet Warriors (Hannover)
Upgrade vet Warrior (Leipzig)
Upgrade Johann (Berlin)
Vet Sword (Leipzig) kills barb Horse (2NE Heidelburg)
Hawk WM for 1gp
Revolt - about 4 turns
Leipzig hires Scientist

IBT
Barbs refrain from attacking again
Game crashes - reload and replay

7 - 410BC
Settler arrives at Cattle & Spices site
Brandenburg founded (Horses site)
Elite Sword (Salzburg) kills barb Horse
Upgrade 2 vet Warriors (Konigsberg)
Upgrade 3 reg Warriors (Hamburg) - normally I wouldn't bother but I think they'll do to deal with barbs
Hawk WM for 2gp

IBT
Salzburg's defenders fend off 3 barb Horse - Spear promotes to elite
Konigsberg fights off 2 barb Horse

8 - 390BC
Vet Sword (NE Konigsberg) kills barb Horse
Upgrade Franz (Leipzig)
Nuremberg founded (on river in the Southwest by Cattle & Spices)
Hawk WM for 1gp

IBT
Lots of milling about by barbs

9 - 370BC
Vet Sword (Leipzig) kills barb Horse
Hawk WM for 3gp

IBT
Barb Horse impales himself on vet Sword who promotes to elite
Enter Monarchy :D

10 - 350BC
Run through the city list... MM Berlin for +5fpt
Cologne founded (2N of Heidelburg)
Upgrade Hanz (Hamburg)
Upgrade vet Sword (Hamburg)

Our Mighty Empire
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGM02-Handy-BC350.jpg

Notes
I think the agressive settling paid off and although I dispersed some of the barbs there are still plenty left for the next player.

I opted to to trade away Monarchy because I wanted to know whether Russia had picked up Feudalism as their free "Era Change" tech. I didn't see much point in going to war with Swords agains Pikes.

The next player will need to build some more Swords and position them ready for our strike against Russia whilst continuing to expand to the Northwest and Southeast.

Our window for attack is probably quite short (Pikes on the horizon) so I hope we can be in a position to start attacking in 10-15 turns. Moscow is probably our best initial target even though it's at pop 10 currently. Follow up with Yatutsk & Sverdlovsk to split the remaining Russian cities.

Score at 350BC: 338

The save is > here < (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Handy_SG002_BC0350_01.SAV)

Ted

Tinkez

May 27, 2004, 10:10 AM

You were fast Ted!

Excellent work on trading, barb fighting, agressive settling and war preparations :)

It seems that the war is almost ready to start. Let's bring Russia to their feet before they get pikes.

A question: There is spoiler thread for this game and now after Ted brought us up to the middle ages, we can take a peek. Who will write a report on our game until now?

-Tinkez

Tinkez

May 27, 2004, 10:22 AM

I have a couple of suggestions after taking a look at the save file:

-connect Bremen and Stuttgart with a road to allow faster movement of troops for war preparations
-Remember to protect the worker near Leipzig, there's a horse one move away.
-Why is there a russian warrior inside our borders near Cologne? What is Cathy up to?

Tinkez

Oddible

May 27, 2004, 11:15 AM

Killer turns Ted - nice trading - was a bit shocked at the sacrifice of Monarchy but looks like you worked it!

Speaking of work...
Buy WM from England for WM + 2gp
Buy WM from France for WM + 3gp
Sell WM to Russia for WM + 1gp
Sell WM to England for WM + 5gp
Sell WM to France for WM +1gp
Net profit of 2gp

Hey, in regards to that Russian warrior inside our borders, we may want to leave it there until we're ready for war - if we ask her to leave and she declares then we save ourselves the badboy points picked up from having to declare war ourselves. Just a thought.

coletite

May 27, 2004, 12:52 PM

I guess I'm up. It looks the Handy will be sending us off to war. Why don't you tell me what conditions you'd like me to set up- how many swords, where they should be based, etc.

Good turns Ted!

[edit] I'll play tonight after work. ETA 11 hours.

maharaja

May 27, 2004, 02:52 PM

Ted you played too good...... :goodjob: :goodjob:

Tell me one thing guys what's "Hawk WM for 3gp"

I know WM world map, gp gold point.

handy900

May 27, 2004, 03:16 PM

Play Order edit 5-22-04
1. Handy
2. Tinkez
3. Oddible
4. maharaja
5. Ted <-just played
6. Coletite <- UP

We now have 514gp in the Bank and a tech lead
Well done Ted!! :thumbsup:

how many swords
As many as possible :lol:
Do the best you can & position them for an assault on Moscow.

It looks like we are now able to view the spoiler thread since we have 3 contacts & are in the middle ages.

Would anyone like to volunteer to act as our team's secretary & write up a summary for the spoiler thread?

Here are the Spoiler Rules:
SGOTM2 - Spoiler 1

Rules for Posting and Viewing this thread

1. Your team must be researching a middle age tech.
2. Your team must have contact with the three AI opponents that started on "your" continent.
3. A nominated team member must have posted a summary of the teams game to the limit of this spoiler.
4. No discussion is permitted regarding "Free Techs".
5. No discussion is permitted of any contact made from other continents.
6. No discussion is permitted of any Middle Age resource locations.

REMEMBER: Wait until your teams' summary has been posted before reading or posting in this thread yourself.

TedJackson

May 27, 2004, 04:31 PM

... was a bit shocked at the sacrifice of Monarchy but looks like you worked it! We had to know if Russia had Feudalism as their free tech - Swords vs Pikes isn't much fun :)

... Tell me one thing guys what's "Hawk WM for 3gp"Just shorthand for buying & selling the WM to all AI Civs. It's tedious but we can make 2 or 3gpt by doing it.

... Would anyone like to volunteer to act as our team's secretary & write up a summary for the spoiler thread?I might have time tomorrow morning to run off a quick summary (if nobody beats me to it :)).

Ted

coletite

May 27, 2004, 04:51 PM

handy900

May 27, 2004, 05:14 PM

Handy- do you want any spears with the swords? I don't think they are necassary, but they may be good to hold Moscow, et. al. and save the swords for offense. Wounded swords can heal while holding a city, but having some spears close behind may be a good idea.

These turns will probably take me a while since I'll be doing them nice and slow and possibly breaking to post questions. So I apologize in advance for slowing down the game.

ETA to play: approx. 7 hours.

No need to apologize. Take your time, and stop if you have questions.

No need for spears, they have the same defense as swords. We should primarily build only offfensive units from now until the time we control our continent. We are not far from Chivalry, and my favorite unit. :goodjob:

coletite

May 27, 2004, 11:21 PM

Ok, I'll be leaving work in about 30 minutes. I'll go home and D/L the save. If anyone has any suggestions, post them now.

ETA to play: approx. 1 hour, 15 minutes

[Edit] Ok, got it. Commence playing in 10...9...8...7...

coletite

May 28, 2004, 01:06 AM

Out of curiosity, when do we want to start building temples and markets?

On turn 5 now...

coletite

May 28, 2004, 02:01 AM

Pre-Flight

Moved Franz N to protect worker from encroaching horse barb
All else looks good.

IBT

More barbs near Dortmund
Hannover warrior – worker
Bonn worker-spearman
English has started Great Lib

330 BC (1)

Changed Dortmund to worker
Changed Brandenberg to worker
MM Berlin
Didn’t do much else… moved some workers

IBT

Barbs killed warrior in Dortmund. Lost a little gold.
French are building Hanging Gardens

310 BC (2)

3 swordsmen near Dortmund killed 3 barbs. We’ll still lose some gold at Dortmund next IBT
Workers finished clearing jungle at Hamburg

IBT

Lost 5 gold at Dortmund.
Lost elite sword to barb attack. (Sorry)
Berlin Settler-settler
Leipzig Sword-sword
French just built Great Lib
English Started Colossus

290 BC (3)

(Realized my turn log is sparse…)
New sword in Leip SE to meet settler from Berlin
Settler NW to Sword
Moving 2 workers to NW region to develop
Moved “clear-cut” team of workers E to Jungle at Hamburg
Franz protecting worker bring road to NW

IBT

Hamburg Sword-sword
Russians started Hanging Gardens

270 BC (4)

New sword in Ham heading to Frankfurt

IBT

Liz offered TM strait across. Didn’t do it. (I never trade on the IBT)
Lost a worker to barbs (because I made a stupid move.)
Sword outside Dort killed about 6 barbs and promoted to Elite.
Konig worker-sword
Han worker-sword
Salsberg barracks-warrior (to upgrade when city is connected)

250 BC (5)

New worker from Han to “clear cut” team at Bremen

IBT

Moscow just built Hanging Gardens for us!
Barbs pillage at Munich

230 BC (6)

Franz killed barb at Munich
Workers complete road to Dortmund- moving them to clear jungle at Bremen

IBT

Berlin Settler-settler

210 BC (7)

Settler NW to meet sword that will come out in 1

IBT

Fended off a bunch of barbs
Leipzig sword-sword

190 BC (8)

Settler and sword from Leipzig heading N between lake and ocean
Switching Leip to spears to escort settlers

IBT

Bremen ‘rax-worker (to mine so we can build swords quickly)
Salz warrior-warrior
Dort worker-galley (next player can veto)

170 BC (9)

(My computer crashed right after I saved the game, but I lost my last two turn logs.)

My comp is real buggy right now, so I'm not going to try a screen cap. Will give it a shot in the norning.

TedJackson

May 28, 2004, 03:38 AM

I've posted a "Bare bones" summary in the spoiler thread so you can have a look at how well the other teams are(n't) doing :D

@Coletite: Looks as if you had some fun with the barbs :) Looking forward to seeing the save.

Ted

maharaja

May 28, 2004, 07:30 AM

Good going Team, I have some questions, How do we know what other CIV. is researching, is there any way. How do we do 'Hawk WM" using same "care to trade world map" option......

For our game, if we make one library in Berlin, it will improve reasearch times right........

handy900

May 28, 2004, 07:40 AM

Thanks for the spoiler summary Ted. :goodjob:

Will try to play tonight, but it may have to be Saturday Night.

maharaja

May 28, 2004, 12:27 PM

What are the free techs. How can we get them, which research is more valuable to do trading as I saw Ted trade Monarchy for Currency and one another Tech. + some golds......... :confused:

Oddible

May 28, 2004, 03:21 PM

@maharaja - some answers:

How do we know what other CIV. is researching, is there any way

You can't see what they're researching but you can see what they've got. Ted sold Monarchy to get the other techs so we could advance to the next age. While we were in the Ancient Age, we couldn't see if Russia had any Medeival Age techs (specifically Feudalism).

which research is more valuable to do trading as I saw Ted trade ...

All depends on your situation, however, it's almost always a good idea to trade techs in order to keep in front of the research race. I say that with caution tho, don't just trade for no reason. There are some general rules to follow - if 2 AI have 2 different techs that you don't have, trade with one to get the other, but note that the AI are going to trade between themselves the new tech you just gave the one, so its often better to sell it to both so they don't gain the advantage from the sale. I recommend some practice in your own games, but in the higher levels (probably Monarch on up), it gets more and more difficult to stay in front in the tech race so you end up having to creatively buy and trade techs to keep up.

What are the free techs

I think there is a general algorithm to determine this that folks have worked out elsewhere on the forum, but Scientific civs get a free tech when they advance to the next age.

How do we do 'Hawk WM"

Hawk just means buy or sell. There are some general rules to this too. Don't trade World Maps in between turns. The reason being that if you do, the AI is going to sell it to everyone so you won't be able to. Also, don't use the 'Care to trade world maps' option. That's just a shortcut and you don't get the best deals that way (of course you can always change the deal after you click that). Better to put your WM on the table and see how much you can get the AI to pay for it - it's a lot of work, but like Ted says, all those 2g, 3g trades add up if you do it every turn or so.

As far as the library goes, it doesn't really seem like a priority for us - we're in the lead in tech due to some excellent trading by Ted and by picking a research path that the others hadn't researched. Also, when we start warring, we'll have opportunities to force peace and get tech from the other AI (but I doubt they'll be too far ahead in tech from here on out).

Just some of my personal take on the info you requested, I'm sure others have some other ideas as well...

coletite

May 28, 2004, 05:26 PM

Best of luck to Handy in kicking off the First Great War! All those poor, miserable Russian citizens will soon join the illustrious empire of the Germans! It's time to ratchet our score up to knotches unkown!

[edit] Capturing Hanging Gardens should give our score a boost.

What do we want to do with the "outer rim" cities in the north? Start working on culture? Marketplaces?

coletite

May 28, 2004, 11:06 PM

Sorry about double posting....

Seeing as how we haven't made contact with any of the other Civs, I assume that the other continent is too far away to reach by galley. However, a "suicide" galley (gallies sent into the ocean in hopes of reaching another contitnent or at least finding another civ's boundaries) may be able to reach and get us some very valuable contacts- just think what we could trade our WM for!

Additionally, we could expand our borders to cover the entire coast, removing the opportunity for other civs to settle on our land. We should have plenty of time to do this if we build libraries in the outer-most cities. The additional science will also be useful.

handy900

May 29, 2004, 05:05 PM

Let the games begin

150 BC Pre check
Russia has no iron hooked up. :D and has researched Republic.
Both England & France have horses & Iron.
England is still in despotism.
Change Brandenburg, New Berlin, Cologne to Barracks (may switch to library later)
Move some swords towards Russia

IBT
Berlin
Bremen- sword – sword
Bonn – spear – barracks

Turn 1 130
MM Berlin to 4 food - need to check this city every turn.
Move some units around. Swords getting into position near Moscow.
Leipzig – spear (for Settlers) – spear. Needs irrigation so it can grow.
Hamburg – sword – sword
Change some corrupt cities to workers.

Turn 2 110
Upgrade warrior.
Should have 12 swords near Moscow in few turns.
French ask to trade maps. Say no thanks.

Konigsberg – sword – sword. We need more workers over here irrigating.
Saltsburg – warrior – warrior

Turn 3 90
Pop hut for some gold – horses would be nice for this. Good source of income running around popping huts.

Turn 4 70
Move some people. Win some barb Battles

IBT
Berlin – settler – settler
Heidelberg – worker – worker

Turn 5 50
Moving swords & workers.
There is a stack of workers improving Konigsberg now.

IBT
Leipzig – spear – spear

Turn 6 30
New Leipzig founded On Ted’s river site to block northern expansion.
Started a galley
Joan has theology
Declare war on Russia, then move troops into her borders.

IBT
Saltsburg – warrior – warrior

Turn 7 10 BC
Move next to Moscow

Turn 8 10 ad
Attack on Moscow (size 11)
Vet sword loses to reg. spear
Vet sword kills reg. spear
Vet sword loses to reg. Spear
Vet sword loses to wounded vet. Spear
Vet sword loses to wounded now vet. Spear
Geez what are these spears made of?
That’s more like it! Elite kills yellow lined elite spear & we get a leader.
Capture Moscow & Get a worker out of the deal.
Rush FP in Moscow
Horses are now hooked up.

IBT
Moscow – FP – Settler (I’ll buys these to get pop down after the citizens stop resisting)
Berlin – Settler – Settler
Konigsberg – sword – sword
Palace gets some steps

Turn 9 30
No one will trade Wmaps with us. I guess they have ships out exploring.
Moscow is on a starvation plan.

IBT
Leipzig – spear – spear
Hamburg – sword – horse
Hanover – sword – horse
Nuremberg – worker - worker

Turn 10 50
There are still 5 resistors in Moscow. Be sure to starve it every turn. After the resistance ends, you can buy settlers to get pop down fast.
Your swords are mostly healed.
Kiev looks like a good next target since it has ivory.
Score 452
.

Note:
I think it may take 3 turns to quell resistance. Moscow will be a nice FP after that. Two wheat & mountains. Very nice shield city.
There is a worker under the sword on the mountain NW of Moscow building a road in 17 turns. He could use some help.
Don't forget to starve Moscow each turn
The picture below shows settlers & their destinations
We can chop libraries in Konigsberg & Hanover. Hanover will be a good city after the chops & some irrigation. Make sure you chop forest, not jungle.
I would build horses from now on with an eye towards knights.
Be careful of barbs. We have a lot of gold in the bank, so if they pillage a city it will hurt.
After the cop near Stuttgart, irrigate the grass (even if BG) so we can irrigate the plains around Stuttgart. It’s near the FP & will pump lots of shields.
I’d try to get the four cities around the FP before you settle for peace. They are all FP ring cities.
After Moscow calms down, you can buy settler to get the pop down. While you do this you can build a library in Berlin.
Berlin can chop a market with it’s forest also.
New Berlin is on Library since no workers can escape from there. Use the nearby swords to battle barbs.
For better or worse, Our Forbidden Palace is in Moscow.
Repeat after me...starve Moscow, starve moscow
Oh...Leipzig & Munich will grow quickly if you irrigate up there. There are a couple of workers doing just that.
You may want to change the barracks builds in the far northern cities. Since the FP is down south, workers from up north are more useful. We still need more workers. I should have done this before the upload.

Play Order edit 5-22-04
1. Handy
2. Tinkez UP :thumbsup: Good Luck!
3. Oddible
4. maharaja
5. Ted
6. Coletite

>> SAVE 50 AD << (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Handy_SG002_AD0050_01.SAV)

handy900

May 29, 2004, 07:08 PM

Settlers & Destinations.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HANDY_SG002_Ad50.JPG

Tinkez

May 30, 2004, 01:16 AM

Got it. Will play later today.

-Tinkez

Tinkez

May 30, 2004, 02:13 PM

Pre-checks: French annoyed, English cautious and Russians furious. No changes to production.

IBT:Bonn barracks->horseman, Salzburg warrior->warrior

70AD(1): MM Moscow to starvation, sword deals with a barb camp N of Salzburg. Move swords towards Kiev from inside our borders, troops in Moscow stay in place.

IBT:Spear wins against barb horse, settler safe now. Other settler is being surrounded by 4 barbs :( English are moving troops to north towards our territory. Russians found Riga on the west end of the continent.

90AD(2): New Hamburg founded, set to build a worker. Move units.

IBT: Barbs raze New Hamburg, we lose 37gp and elite spearman. Russians begin Sun Tzu. Resistance in Moscow ends.

110AD(3):Rush settler in Moscow with 96gp; keep starvation on. New Konigsberg founded. I trade feudalism from Joan for 285gp+7gpt as barbs are surrounding New Hamburg. Start chivalry @ minimum.

IBT: Barbs move around, 2 russian archers prepare for "counter-attack". Moscow settler->settler. Berlin settler->marketplace

130AD(4): Move swords nearer Kiev.

IBT: Munich library->pikeman, Hamburg horseman->horseman, Heidelburg worker->worker, Salzburg warrior->warrior, barbs raze New Hamburg, lose 2gp.

150AD(5): 2 swords kill 2 russian archers. 6 swords begin march to Kiev.

IBT: Konigsberg library -> horse, barb raze New Hamburg for 1gp, Frankfurt sword -> horse. Cologne barracks->horse.

170AD(6): Sword kills russian warrior and redlines, move swords to strike distance from Moscow.

IBT: Dortmund galley -> barracks.

190AD(7): Vet Sword attacks Yakutsk, win against spear, lose 2hp
Vet sword attacks Yakutsk, loses to redlined spear which promotes.
Vet sword attacks Yakutsk, loses to spear with 2hp(manages to redline it)?!
Hanz attacks Yakutsk, kills archer and promotes to elite.
Vet sword attacks Yakutsk, kills redlined spear and takes the city.
Have 7 swords ready for assault on Kiev for next turn.

IBT: Bremen sword ->horse, Stuttgart sword -> horse. Borders expand and english troops get inside.

210AD(8): Don't want to ask English to leave as she might declare war. No troops available for that front now.
Hanz kills Russian archer
Elite sword kills Russian archer
Vet Sword attacks Kiev, dies in vain.
Vet Sword attacks Kiev, dies in vain.
Vet Sword attacks Kiev, redlines spear and dies in vain.
Vet Sword attacks Kiev, dies in vain. :eek: :confused:
Vet Sword attacks Kiev, kills spear.
Vet Sword attacks Kiev, kills spear.
Last vet sword attacks Kiev, ***DRUMS PLEASE***; kills last spear and takes Kiev to German empire. :D
Just great, computer crashes. Reboot and take autosave, play again and excatly same sequency happens, whuh.

IBT: Leipzig pike->pike, Bonn horse -> horse, Salzburg warrior->warrior.

230AD(9): Rush settler in Moscow, move troops to Kiev against resistance.

IBT: Galley wins against barb galley. Moscow settler -> pike, Hamburg horse ->horse, Brandenburg barracks->pike. Nuremberg worker -> spear.

250AD(10): sword disperses barb camp N of New Hamburg. Let troops heal, send a task force to take Odessa.

Remarks: Our troops are quite scattered as I took Kiev and Yakutsk which are opposite directions. Also we suffered quite heavy casulties, sorry for that. Those damn spears didn't want to DIE!

Next player should gather troops back to Moscow and advance south to take St. Pieterburg and Sverdlovsk.

There are 3 swords and 2 horse near Odessa, there is probably only 1-2 defenders as it is a small city. Take it and then squeeze Minsk from two directions after south front is clear. After that Russians should be almost done, maybe settle for peace and claim some cities at the same time.

English are a problem as they are at our territory. Next player can decide what to do with Elizabeth.

Our score is 521.

Save: 250AD (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Handy_SG002_AD0250_01.SAV)

Good luck! :goodjob:

-Tinkez

Tinkez

May 30, 2004, 02:18 PM

Screenshot:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Tinkez_250AD.JPG

Tinkez

May 30, 2004, 02:22 PM

Forgot to mention:

There are 4 settlers on the move: Up north are two, other is ready to settle, other needs couple of turns, next player can decide exact location. Near Konigsberg is one, he's going to the east to the coast next to the river. Final one just left Moscow, destination unknown ;)

-Tinkez

handy900

May 30, 2004, 03:39 PM

Well Done Tinkez! :D

A few thoughts…
Military advisor says we are strong versus France & England. I’ll often go for an ROP with England in a situation like the one we face. England will give us 25g + Wm for an ROP. Something for the team to discuss.
Russian city of Riga must have a key resource (perhaps oil or saltpeter). No other reason for them to settle there. If we don’t get it this war, we’ll have to get it in the next one.
Good call on market in Berlin. Library next.
Moscow has no barracks, we should change the pike to a market. This city will grow fast & throw off loads of cash & shields.
We have a lot of cities building military that do not have barracks. Among them are Munich, Kiev, Yakutsk, Heidelberg, and Nuremberg. In good shield cities without barracks, switch to barracks. In corrupt cities, build a settler or workers. We could use more workers, and settlers to the north & south to get all the land we can. More cities mean more free units.
There is a good river location to settle on E of Hannover on the coast by the fish.
We definitely want Minsk. Nice spot.
In Yakutsk & Kiev, I’d suggest libraries for quick culture.
Do we need to build any spears or pikes? I vote no, except as a settler escort.
Corrupt cities with food such as New Konigsberg can build workers or settlers.
After we get the three good Russian cities of St. Petersburg, Sverdlovsk & Minsk, we can make peace, get some cities & maybe techs in the deal, and position to take over France in a knight war.

Play Order edit 5-22-04
1. Handy
2. Tinkez
3. Oddible <-UP
4. maharaja
5. Ted
6. Coletite

Oddible

May 30, 2004, 06:19 PM

handy900

May 30, 2004, 06:30 PM

Got it. Poked around a bit and didn't see a lot in the way of offensive units, but I didn't look too hard. I may be waiting for some of these horses to come online. Probably still going to be facing a solid defense in Minsk. Will see what I can bring to bear down there.

Catherine's ready to talk but won't bring much to the table, needs more pressure.

Will play by tomorrow early afternoon...

Good Luck :thumbsup: - you are three posts away from your own custom avatar. :D

We started the war with only 12 swords, so things are a bit light. Not doing any razing has slowed us down a bit. We built some more, but Tinkez & I had some bad RNG luck against the Russian spears.

coletite

May 31, 2004, 12:55 AM

Great job Tinkez!

ROP: I'm for it. The French need a woopin' real bad. The ROP with England will give us more flexibility in our strategy.

Let's take the next three Russian cities as quickly as possible then make peace. Once done, a few turns to build up our forces then we shoudl strike France hard and fast and not stop until Joan's wiped out. IMHO, we need to take out France before muskateers come on line. On a similar note, we need to make sure Russia is unable to muster much resistance when cavalry comes along... of course they very well may be gone by then. England we could probably save for last, unless they build a wonder we really want. Once we take most of Russia and France and get some libraries built, we should be able to take a commanding tech lead over England. Not that that means much until cavalry...

Ok, enough rambling.

Good luck Oddible!

Tinkez

May 31, 2004, 03:35 AM

I’ll often go for an ROP with England in a situation like the one we face. England will give us 25g + Wm for an ROP. Something for the team to discuss.

This sounds good. We have the north almost settled and therefore don't have to fear England rushing to steal our city sites. Also there are troops ready to deal with barb camps, so England does not steal the prize money from those. Usually it is good to pay attention which direction AI forces are moving in our territory with ROP as they're heading to disperse a barb camp. Just overtake them and get the camp first.

We have a lot of cities building military that do not have barracks. Among them are Munich, Kiev, Yakutsk, Heidelberg, and Nuremberg. In good shield cities without barracks, switch to barracks.

My bad, I'll be more careful in the future. (I was hoping for a leader to rush Sun Tzu's :mischief: )

There is a good river location to settle on E of Hannover on the coast by the fish.

This is the location where the settler near Konigsberg is heading. Wait for the pikeman coming just half a turn after the settler, he's the escort.

After we get the three good Russian cities of St. Petersburg, Sverdlovsk & Minsk, we can make peace, get some cities & maybe techs in the deal, and position to take over France in a knight war.

This sounds like a plan. The question is just should we first attack south or north? I would have gone south first and then last take Minsk.

-Tinkez

maharaja

Jun 01, 2004, 07:37 AM

I think, if we can then we should wipe out Russian....don't leave any city for next war. This is what I think but you guys are better. Good Game Team till now.

handy900

Jun 01, 2004, 08:18 AM

I think, if we can then we should wipe out Russian....don't leave any city for next war. This is what I think but you guys are better. Good Game Team till now.

After we take the three good Russian cities of St. Petersburg, Sverdlovsk & Minsk, we can probably get some of the poor jungle cities to the SE of Berlin at the peace table. Any remaining Russian cities will be a non factor we can clean up later. We'll just have to see what we can get @ the peace table.

Next War
I guess we should discuss the pros & cons of England versus France.
If we take France next, we will have quite a long border to defend against England. OTOH, if we take Frace before Muskets, we can deny them a Golden Age. We definitely don't want to fight France during their Golden Age. I lean towards France first, but that English border will [edit] require a good attack plan & troop positioning planning on our part.

Galleys
Might be time to start building around with a galley to see if we can find a way across the ocean. Ted put a city on the river coast tile near Konigsburg IIRC.

Tinkez

Jun 01, 2004, 08:46 AM

Next War
I guess we should discuss the pros & cons of England versus France.
If we take France next, we will have quite a long border to defend against England. OTOH, if we take Frace before Muskets, we can deny them a Golden Age. We definitely don't want to fight France during their Golden Age. I lean towards France first, but that English border will a good attack plan & troop positioning planning on our part.

I give my vote for the French, let's annihilate them ;)

Galleys
Might be time to start building around with a galley to see if we can find a way across the ocean. Ted put a city on the river coast tile near Konigsburg IIRC.
I built a galley at the end of my turns, it might be fortified on the coast as the barbs came too near to sink their boats and drown :lol:
Sorry for that fortification, just remember to wake it!!

-Tinkez

Oddible

Jun 01, 2004, 03:00 PM

Sorry all, got caught up in the Memorial Day festivities and didn't get a chance to play my turns. Will absolutely get them done this evening when I get home from work.

It seems that there are only 5 units available to take Minsk. I probably won't have much more than than until near the end of my turns so I likely won't be taking any cities but more getting the next player in position to finish the war. Normally if I were planning a long war with I'd go into a harrassment campaign where I would knock out roads to the cities I'm not going to be taking (especially the capitol or any potential capitol cities) but looks like we're going to occupy most of the close cities so I'd like to keep those roads around if at all possible.

As far as the Cossacks go, Russia will not have horses so that won't be to much of a worry (unless they buy them of course).

I have mixed feelings on signing an ROP with England. On one hand it secures our relationship with them and would probably give us clear sailing right on into a war with France. On the other, it gives them use of our roads to settle our norther lands. Since we are stronger than them I don't think they'll declare war if we tell them to leave. Will play it by ear. I'd rather not ROP as long as we're stronger (for now) - I won't ask her to leave, so at least it will be slow going for her to get settlers up to the north.

Just some thoughts - will post turns in about 7 hours...

handy900

Jun 01, 2004, 05:15 PM

I'd rather not ROP as long as we're stronger (for now) - I won't ask her to leave, so at least it will be slow going for her to get settlers up to the north.

After some thought, I think this is best. Since we are stonger, let them come through, but make them move more slowly.

Oddible

Jun 02, 2004, 01:23 AM

........................................
The Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Handy_SG002_AD0350_01.SAV)

Score: 604
........................................

Well, was wrong about the lack of offensive units. We had a great reserve guarding our interior. That's gone now...

Pre

Moscow -> Market
Kiev -> Library
Munich -> Barracks
Heidelburg -> Barracks
Brandenburg -> Settler
Nuremburg -> Worker
New Konigsburg -> Worker
Cologne -> Worker

Always Renegotiate Deals is checked. I prefer to have more control of when I want to end a deal so am unchecking it - feel free to change this to suit your style. (Not that we have any deals).

Buy 1 Spearmen in Yakutsk for defense.

IBT

Konigsberg: Horseman -> Horseman
Cologne: Worker -> Worker

English military are almost to unclaimed land to help in the barb wars.

260AD - 1

We shouldn't attack Riga since it won't have any culture. We'll get it next war. Tblisi either. Maybe we can bargain for them at the peace table.

Upgrade Vet Warrior in Liepzig

Sword * barb 4/4
Horse * archer outside Odessa

Wierd. The F3 screen shows 2 settlers but I can see 4.

Can trade Joan Spices for Furs but she wants 91 + 2gpt so forget it, our people are happy. Still, she's annoyed so want to keep an eye on her.

IBT

Hannover: Horse -> Horse
New Hamburg: Worker -> Worker

French are building Sistine
The French have officially entered our territory - not even gonna ask.

270AD - 2

Odessa: Horse * Spear 3/4
Odessa: Sword Dies to spear 1/3
Odessa Captured (didn't know whether that was in the plan or not but Tinkez left me a splendid army right there so I took this jungle city to pass the time while the Minsk troops were mustered).

Odessa: Worker

Some MM. Note, sometimes when you MM to get an extra shield it goes straight to corruption so better in those situations to MM to more food.

IBT

Ugh, bad year.
Lose 2 workers to Russia near Moscow (was a automove I didn't catch)
Settler in north falls to barbarians. (The spear guard went 2/4 last turn so I moved to mountain but still lost).

Berlin: Market -> Library
Liepzig: Pikeman -> Horse
Munich: Barracks -> Pike
Yakutk riots.
Salzburg: Warrior -> Warrior (workers roading now - will switch)
New Konigsberg: Worker -> Worker

280AD - 3

Word on settlers - England and France are on the move. May buy some settlers to fill in some blank spots soon.

New Berlin: Switch Library -> Settler (in 6)
Salzbug: road built, switch to Horse, upgrade vet warrior

Jeesh, galley in trouble. Was 2/3 when I found it so decided to sail home - now surrounded by 2 barbs.

Galley * barb 2/3 (didn't promote :( )
Horse Retreats Russian Archer (2/3) 1/4
Sword * barb 3/3

Dortmund: Switch barracks -> Settler

IBT

Galley not attacked!

Frankfurt: Horse -> Horse

290AD - 4

Killin barbs...

Horse dies v Archer @ Moscow 1/3
Sword * Archer 4/4
Sword * Archer 4/4 Promotes

St Petersburg: Sword * Spear 1/4
St Petersburg: Sword * Spear 5/5 Promotes
St Petersburg falls!
St Petersburg: Settler

IBT

Sword in north defends 2x, promoted to elite, then dies
Hamburg: Horse > Horse
Konigsburg: Horse > Horse
Yakutsk: Spear > Library

300AD - 5

Shuffle

IBT

Cologne: Worker > Library
New Frankfurt Founded!
New Frankfurt: Library

310AD - 6

Near Minsk:
Horse * archer 3/4
Sword * archer 4/5 Promotes

Kiev: Buy settler (too many Russians)

IBT

France is sending a lot of swords east. Hmm.

Berlin: Library > Temple
Kiev: Settler > Library
Liepzig revolts! Arghhhh. Entertain.
Bonn: Horse > Pike

We need some cultcha.

320AD - 7

Near Minsk:
Horse 3/4 v Archer on mt dies 1/4
Sword * archer 2/4

IBT

Near Minsk:
Horse retreats 1/4

Liepzig: Horse > Market

Japanese have completed the Colosus!

330AD - 8

Sverdlovsk: Vet Sword falls to 3/3 spear, promotes
Sverdlovsk: Sword * Spear 2/4
Sverdlovsk falls! Definitely overestimated its defence.
Sverdlovsk > Worker

IBT

English offer The Republic for Monotheism and 60. I checked with Russia last turn and she was ready to offer Riga and Theology but no Republic. I give her Mono and 44g.

Konigsberg: Horse > Market
Bremen: Horse > Library
Stuttgart: Horse > Library

English are building the Great Lighthouse for us.

340AD - 9

Minsk: Horse dies v Archer promotes 3/4
Minsk: Sword * Archer 3/4
Minsk falls!
Minsk > settler (to reduce numbers)

Russia still has horses in Astrakhan.

Oh my. Their capitol moved to Tblisi!
Still not offering any sweet deals. Looks like we continue this campaign. Gonna set mahajah up for Krasnoyarsk and Sevastopol. Any peace deal with Russia needs to get at least Theology and 1 city, my choice would be (in order) Astrakhan, Riga or Vladivostok or Rostov, defintely NOT one of the southwest cities.

There's a barb camp south of New Frankfurt, doesn't show up but need to knock it out before the settlers arrive.

IBT

Ouch! After my heroic rush to Minsk, I am disgraced in the fall of Nuremburg. One warrior fails to defend against 1 archer. Alas, we've got little north to take her back. We much not make any deals before all Germans lands are in German hands!

Hamburg: Horse > Horse
Minsk riots!
Frankfurt: Horse > Pike
Brandenburg: Settler > Library

350AD - 10

New Munich founded!
New Munich > Worker

Science to 50% Chivalry in 9
Lux to 10% (starting to see some discontent as cities are growing)
+14gpt

Parting thoughts

Two settlers in the east with 2 settlers coming on line next turn. One in the east should grab a pike (from the new town right there) and head for the spices. Some nice cattle down there too. The other should go for the coast or the river depending on if its defended and if we're still at war with Russia. The one in the north should go north to on the river. The other is open - maybe the coast south, or next to the iron ne.

I've got 4 horses on their way to rescue Nuremburg. Sorry bout that guys. Those horses - with others coming online shortly, could make their way to Tblisi afterwards. There are 4 units outside Krasnoyarsk shoudln't be too much defense. Sevastopol is on hills so make sure you've got about 6-8 units to take 2 spears.

Maharaja, don't know how you are with using Elite units, but I tend to save mine for easy kills. Use them last and don't let them die - just hopeful that if we go easy with them, they'll become great leaders.

If you can take Krasnoyarsk and Sevastopol and rescue Nuremburg, see what you can get from Cathy.

We don't have to extinguish her if we can get tech and a couple cities. On the other hand, as you'll have some horses near Tblisi, that might be an opportunistic grab. Also could bring some of the Minsk units down to help take Vladivostok.

Note France. Not sure that we need to be too worried about England, but France has a LOT of units, walk lightly around her. We're easy prey with no pikes. My personal taste in between wars might have me making some pike defenders, libraries in every city, and lots of markets. I think we have a lot of land to work without getting started clearing jungle too much (though Hannover isn't going to grow without it - so there's an exception).

That's all. Thanks to Tinkez for a great setup!

Have fun maharaja!

Oddible

Jun 02, 2004, 01:25 AM

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Handy_SG002_350AD_North.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Handy_SG002_350AD_South.jpg

Oddible

Jun 02, 2004, 01:27 AM

Oh yeah, forgot to mention, I have been doing a little starving to repress the Russian cities and have left very little defense in them in my rush to Minsk. Might want to keep an eye on those that Tinkez and Handy captured as well as the newly captured as they could possibly flip???

As far as Sevastopol goes, wait til the rest of the swords in the area catch up before launching the attack. You're probably going to need them. Bring in extra nearby horses if you can too. 6-8 minimum units.

maharaja

Jun 02, 2004, 08:08 AM

Will play tonight......

handy900

Jun 02, 2004, 08:09 AM

Looks Great. :D
Nice job surrounding our FP in Moscow with Greman cities. :) None of these cities have any of their 21 tiles under Russian cultural control, so flip should be low odds. This FP core will be highly productive for us as it becomes improved.

Wierd. The F3 screen shows 2 settlers but I can see 4

Two settler were Russian, so they show up under the captured units box @ the bottom. This flaw was fixed in Conquests. Any non German unit (including artillery, etc) shows up down there. Real PITA. I wish they would patch fix this.

automove I didn't catch

Everybody remember don't to put units on automove. It is a drag for the next player.

PikesWithout a peek @ the save, I'd lean towards not building any pikes. Knights have the same defense, and are much more useful. We can upgrade some spears to pikes to put on the borders. I'll look at the save tonight. Anybody else have thoughts on this? The more we are in agreement, the better we'll do. Lets discuss & agree on a plan for our cash & what to build for the next war.

I doubt France will attack us. Maybe they are going after what's left of Russia.

maharaja If you become unsure of what to do on your turns, stop & post a save for duscussion. Good Luck :thumbsup:

Oddible

Jun 02, 2004, 12:32 PM

Everybody remember don't to put units on automove. It is a drag for the next player.
I agree wholeheartedly - in this case they were taking 2 turns to move and will have finished their automove well before the next player got the save.

I would like to see a pike in each border city. Just a preference - they're cheaper than Knights and I hate leaving knights as defenders - I would offer that we have a hugely imbalanced Knights / Pikeman production (like 10 knights to every 1 pike). That said, I've set things to build about 4 pikes right now to get our border defense in order. Just minimal cheap defense.

maharaja

Jun 02, 2004, 03:27 PM

Temple will be done in next 2 turns in Berlin any thoughts what should we build next there in Berlin?

handy900

Jun 02, 2004, 04:47 PM

Temple will be done in next 2 turns in Berlin any thoughts what should we build next there in Berlin?

Without looking @ the save I'd say...

1. Do we have all the settlers we need? If not get 5 food per turn & build settlers.

2. If we don't need settlers, do we have a Library and Market? If we are lacking a library or market, build those. Market first.

3. If we don't need settlers, and have the market & library, build horsemen. If you build horsemen in Berlin, get our highest commerce city to work building a market.

Perhaps another team member can peek @ the save & give you build ideas on all the core cities.

Handy :D

coletite

Jun 02, 2004, 05:29 PM

My thoughts on defense:

Border cities should always have 1 defense specific unit (I.e. pike) to fortify and 1-2 knights sleeping. The knights can move to take out pillagers and, as Handy pointed out, have the same defense as pikes (and can take out withdrawn enemy knights). The pikes, on the other hand, do get a bonus vs. mounted units. Useful when our enemies get knights. The pikes can be upgraded and moved around when the border moves.

Outer rim cities only need defensive units when:

1) there is still a risk of barbs

2) they need MP

3) someone lands on our coast

Knights are more expensive, but a handful can cover a great deal of our land.

These are just my thoughts.

Oddible

Jun 02, 2004, 06:23 PM

I think that the only improvement not built in Berlin is a Colisseum, which would probably be quick and not a bad idea - our capitol would certainly be happy! I think there are 5 settlers either on board or coming up and we have some outlying cities that could still build another. Horses are of course always needed though if we build a Colisseum, then you'll be able to start a knight first thing after that's built. We're not short on offense and we want to stay in front of the curve on unit support so make sure we keep building markets.

I think Handy is probably right - I was getting a little worried about France because things were looking a little thin, but even if France starts a war, we've developed our unit production to the point where in 9 turns when we get knights we could probably take on both England and France simultaneously without a problem.

Just noticed that Salzburg is building a sword, that can probably be changed.

coletite

Jun 02, 2004, 06:29 PM

Do we have horses? If so, should we start building horesmen to upgrade to knights?

handy900

Jun 02, 2004, 07:01 PM

Do we have horses? If so, should we start building horsemen to upgrade to knights?

Yes - I switched all swords to horses on my turns with the upgrade in mind. Horses also work pretty well against spears. On Monarch games I often built no swords, only horses. The retreat feature and ability to upgrade makes them very potent and cheap long term. We had to build swords in this game since horses were so far away from Berlin.

I would skip Coliseum for now. Markets with luxuries will keep Berlin pretty happy. I always question any non-military build. Do I really want to spend shields on something I don't really need? Also, If France build's Sistine for us, a cathedral in Berlin plus our market will be plenty of happiness. Let's use the Coliseum shields on horsemen & knights.

BTW - if you pop a leader - rush Sun Tzu

coletite

Jun 02, 2004, 07:06 PM

Just to be Devil's Advocate: the happier our citizens, the higher our score. Although I'm leaning toward NOT building a colliseum.

handy900

Jun 02, 2004, 09:19 PM

Just to be Devil's Advocate: the happier our citizens, the higher our score. Although I'm leaning toward NOT building a colliseum.

True, but tiles under our control also counts, as does how quickly we win. Gaining additional luxuries benefits all of our cities, that is the big score booster.

coletite

Jun 02, 2004, 09:41 PM

Absolutely! I'm all for the big land grab. Let's fill in our borders and crack some skulls! This continent is as good as ours!!!

On the battle front: fighting France and England at the same time would gain us a lot of territory in a shorter amount of time. It would be tough and require a rather substantial military, but we have the cities to crank out the units. However, the saner route is probably a direct attack against France. If England wants to rumble, we'll oblige them.

General strategy: drive straight for France's iron supply. I believe they only have the one. Once we are holding that, declare peace and take some more cities. Then drive for England's iron and repeat. Not sure how well resource deprivation works, but we could at least keep them from amassing much of an army. Just thinking out loud.

One thing seems clear- once we take the SW, the SE will merely be a mopping-up exercise.

Science: we are working on the libraries, right? We should be able to shoot ahead in research soon, maybe even catching up to the other continent before we meet them.

maharaja

Jun 02, 2004, 10:31 PM

press spacebar for next turn............

Order restored in Minsk, Resistence ended at st. Petersberg

350AD
Sverdlovsk build worker, pikeman next
Salzberg Swordsman-Swordsman
Dortmund build Settler, swordsman next (first thought was Harbor)
New Berlin build Settler, worker next

Moved one horseman towards Nureimberg, will keep horseman nearby Berlin there only as Leipzig is ungarded and there is 3 un-happy citizen
Barb galley near by ours going to attack them...barbt sinked like titanic

We don't have enough defender lots of cities un-defended and settlers moving amost alone

370AD
Berlin build Temple, horseman next
Munich build Pikeman, horseman next (planning grenary next)
Hannover build Pikeman, swordsman next
New Hamburg Worker-Worker

attacking Krasnovz because one spears moving there...one horseman killed but captured Krasnovz found 0 gold
option to raze or install new governer, installing new governer (captured 3 workers too)

Bremen is ungarded and one english archer looking right there so moving one swordsman from Hannover to there, (I kept him to accomany settler but not want to take a chance)

New Kongisberg Worker-Worker

380AD
Spearman near Krasnovz attacked, one swordsman killed, attacking on him Russian Spearman killed
Minsk producing Settler in 27 turns (any specific reason?)
Hamburg produced Horseman, swordsman next

390AD
Bonn pikeman-Swordsman
Tokyo just finsihed Great lighthouse
One Russian spearman moved towards Brendenburg, english warrior & 2 archer coming from other end (S)
Moved pikeman from munich to Brendenburg, our pikeman still 2 tiles away

piled 5 horses now attacking to Nuremberg there I can see Archer...captured nuremberg not razing, installing new gover.
upgrade spearman to pikeman in Konigsberg & Berlin (total cost 40 gp)
upgrade warrior in stuttgard to swordsman (40gp)
Berlin Horseman-Horseman
Frankfurt Pikeman-Pikeman
Heidelburg Barrack-worker next
People admire our achievent so one more upgrade for palace
English building art of war
upgraded spearman in Heidelburg to Pikeman

400AD
Moved Pikeman to Bradenburg Spearman Russia in next tile definetly will attack on us in next turn
upgrade spearman in Munich to Pikeman
New Heidelburg founded
upgrade salzburg spearman to pikeman
St. Petersberg produce Settler, pikeman next
Sverdlovsk pikeman-pikeman
New Leipzeg produce Galley. warrior next in 10 trun thatwhy selected (2 Russian cities near by)
upgrade colgn warrior to swordsman

410AD
lost track for couple moves...
attacking barb galley near Dortmund......barb galley sink like Titanic
there is one barb hut where out settler is moving taking risk and not stoping movement as swordsman is with him
don't know why spearman not attacking Bradenburg....waiting for him to attack
English reached before us and found city near spices

420AD
2 russian archers attacked on us in Nuremberg our Pikeman killed both and become Alite, I switched horseman with Pikeman in heidelberg in previous turn
Russian Spearman now moving towards New Konigsberg
One Horse Barb is standing on tile where we have to found city and there hut is in next tile, will take risk and move our swordsman & settler to the same tile where horseman is standing...killed horse barb
Now attacking to Svastopol with 4 swordsman, 2 horseman and Hanz...lost 1 swordsman, captured city & got 1 gold, 2 workers....1 Resister still there

Discovered Chivalery, next invention
Berlin Horseman-Pikeman

430AD
Hamburg Swordsman-Granary
Munich horseman-Pikeman
Resistence at Swastopol ended
Yakutsk build Library, barrack next
3 swordsman 1 horseman attacking Vladistok....lost 1 swordsman, captured Vladistok, got 0 gold
Before attack there were only 2 french swordsman near Vladistok but once captured there 2 more swordsman and 1 warrior visibled in 3 different tile near Vladistok border...How Come?
Found city New Nuremberg (that looks the best tile)
Found city New Cologne (I know guys this is not the best tile but don't want to loose the land to English or French)
Minsk lost productivity gave some entertainment
New Berlin build worker, pikeman next

Russian building Art of War

440AD
Attacked on Russian spearman with 2 horses near New Konigsberg, lost one but killed spearman (saved worker, otherwise apearman going to captur him)
icrease Science to 70% invention in next 7 Turns
Russian spearman Distroyed the road to horse near Brandenburg (sorry for that guys didn't realize that), once Worker near Munich will be done, move to of them to there
Berlin Pikeman-Swordsman (next can we build art of war here)
order restored in Mink
Konigsberg Marketplace-Granary
Frankfurt Pikeman-Settler
Hannovar Swaordsman-Worker
Stuttgard Libaray-Worker
Bonn swordsman-Pikeman
Sverldlovsk Pikeman-Settler
Seldzberg Swordsman-Worker

450AD
Found city New Hannover
Switched Settler (21 turn) to Barrack (11 turn)

Watch out Russian Archer near mountains of Tbilis, Mink has 3 entertainer need to switch to worker

my Turn over. Score: 701 (thanks guys for such a wonderfull setup)

maharaja

Jun 02, 2004, 10:39 PM

Saved File and new location for new cities. First time I uploaded through upload thread too so don't know if uploaded right or not....ohu it uploaded correctly.

Score: 701
Jason score: 535

coletite

Jun 02, 2004, 10:51 PM

Looks like Joan is itchin' for a fight. We better step up our military production now that we have knights!

Maharaja- great job!

Oddible

Jun 02, 2004, 11:07 PM

Nice work maharaja!

Looks like that just about wraps up the Russian smackdown.

TedJackson

Jun 03, 2004, 04:36 AM

Got it

but I won't be playing until this evening.

Ted

maharaja

Jun 03, 2004, 07:31 AM

Tad very first thing, start building road to connect horse (Russian distoyed that)...... workers already there (I just overlooked in one turn) :sad:

Thanks guys it was because of setup u guys provided.

handy900

Jun 03, 2004, 07:54 AM

Nice job. Monarch's not so bad it is? :D

Since I'm at work I can't see the save, but it sure sounded like we are building a lot of pikemen. Also, we don't need to build anymore swords, ever. They are too slow. Knights are what we want to roll over Joan. Attack strenght & mobility. Use the cash to upgrade horsemen to knights. If we hit Joan fast & hard she won't have the time to mount much of a counter offensive.

Play Order edit 5-22-04
1. Handy
2. Tinkez
3. Oddible
4. maharaja
5. Ted <- Up and has got it. Best of Luck Ted :goodjob:
6. Coletite

coletite

Jun 03, 2004, 06:36 PM

Good luck Ted.

If Ted posts his turns before I get off work, then I will play when I get home. Anything you want me to do? Obviously a lot will depened on Ted's turns.

Thanks.

Oddible

Jun 04, 2004, 01:14 AM

A thought on defenders... I usually don't leave too many in the interior if we're in a government that doesn't require MP. If the border cities have units, I usually feel like I can get defenders across the interior quick enough to cover any threat. Only reason I'd typically leave units in the interior is as a reserve or if I have airports. I think this is pretty common though but thought I'd mention it.

Cheers!

TedJackson

Jun 04, 2004, 06:21 AM

handy900

Jun 04, 2004, 07:59 AM

Just a quick update...

I played 5 turns last night (turns are taking a long time now) and we have full WM & contacts. I made Peace with Russia and I'm now about to declare on France with a stack of 8 Knights ready to roll :)

Minimap
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGM02-Handy-AD500-minimap.gif

Hopefully I'll finish my turns tonight.

Ted

EXCELLENT! Looks like the Germans have the world's largest empire, and 2 core rings now that the FP is surrounded by former Russian cities.
Good luck with joan. :thumbsup:

I usually don't leave too many in the interior if we're in a government that doesn't require MP

Yes, once we are out of Monarchy we can pull these guys out of the interior. In the meantime, if we don't need them for MP duty, we can pull them now. Just be careful if you pull from a river city that can grow past size 6. It may need MP in the future. We are still in Monarchy - right?

TedJackson

Jun 04, 2004, 10:57 AM

SGM02-Handy-AD450

Pre-flight checks... OK :thumbsup:
Generally we seem to be in good shape. Our core needs some attention as our production is quite low - we need to mine some hills & mountains in order to maximise our shields.

Russia is almost spent. We could get Theology & Invention (we give 16gp) for Peace. France seems to be the favourite for our next sparring partner. It would probably benefit us to bring England in on our side both to confuse France and hamper England's development.

France is probably close to discovering Invention (Musketeers) and there is a very real chance of triggering France's Golden Age unless we are careful. Our primary targets are Orleans (Ivory), Paris (Great Lib & Oracle), Lyons (Furs) and Marseilles (Furs).

As we can't build Knights or Horsemen (Horses disconnected)I switch all Sword builds to Courthouse (pre-builds).
Sell Peace to Russia for Theology & Invention (we give 16gp)
Switch Research to Gunpowder @10% (40 turns @ +120gpt, 385gp in the bank) - once all Horses are upgraded then max research to Mil Trad
France already has Gunpowder (Musketeers) :( & Education
Russia is down Chivalry
England is down Engineering & Chivalry
Nobody has made contact with the rest of the world

Press enter...
Leipzig Market - Library (needs border expansion)
Brandenburg Worker - Worker (1 shield town)
French start Leonardo's

1 - 460AD
Start troops moving toward French Borders
Deliver ultimatum to France - leave or declare war - France leaves :( (If they declare on us then they get an immediate War Weariness penalty)
General plan is to move troops into place whilst waiting for Horses to be reconnected.

IBT
A foreign boat is briefly spotted!
Odessa Worker - Lib
Heidelburg Worker - Lib
Cologne Lib - Court (pre-build for Knight)
New Hamburg Worker - Worker

2 - 470AD
Contact Japanese Galley - They are down Currency. This must be an AI suicide Galley... No, they built the Great Lighthouse and there is a sea crossing.
Buy WM + contact with India from Japan for WM, Currency + 58gp
Sell WM to India for WM, Contact with China + 26gp
Sell WM to China for WM + 34gp
Sell WM to France for WM + 40gp (could have got an extra 4gpt but that would have spoiled the war plan)
Sell WM to Japan for WM + 14gp
Sell WM to England for WM + 28gp
Sell WM to Russia for WM + 21gp
Everybody except Japan is broke and we have a complete World Map :)
New Bremen founded
Troops advance toward France
Deliver another ultimatum to France - she backs down

IBT
Minsk Barracks - Lib
Bremen Lib - Worker (zero growth)
Stuttgart Worker - Catapult
Yakutsk Barracks - Worker
Saltzburg Worker - Catapult
New Konigsberg Worker - Worker (1 shield town)

3 - 480AD
Swap pre-builds to Knights at Berlin, Hamburg, Konigsberg, Frankfurt & Munich
Upgrade 10 Horsemen to Knights @80gp ea
Troops advance
Deliver another ultimatum to France - she backs down
Hawk WM for 3gp
We still have a monopoly on Chivalry

IBT
Sverdlovsk Settler - Worker (still all Russian)
Russia starts Sun Tzu

4 - 490AD
Research 60% (Gunpowder in 9 @ +14gpt, 181gp in the bank)
Upgrade 2 Horseman & 1 Spear
Deliver another ultimatum to France - she backs down
Hawk WM for 12gp
We're still up Chivalry

IBT
Berlin Knight - Knight
Yakutsk Worker - Worker (still part Russian)
New Berlin Worker - Lib
New Heidelburg Worker - Worker (1 shield town)

5 - 500AD
Troops advance
Hawk WM for 6gp
Still up Chivalry
Deliver yet another ultimatum to France - she backs down
We'll have 8 Knights to invade France next turn :)

IBT
Moscow Market - Barracks
Leipzig Lib - Knight
Sverdlovsk Worker - Barracks
Dortmund Lib - Barracks
New Leipzig Warrior - Worker (zero growth)

6 - 510AD
New Stuttgart founded
New Bonn founded
Troops advance
Hawk WM for 8gp
Still up Chivalry
Ask France to move troops... miracle of miracles... she declares on us :D
Vet Knight kills Sword, capturing French settler and promotes
Vet Knight kills Warrior
Vet Sword captures slave
Vet Horse kills Warrior
3 Sword stack ,moves to E Dijon
8 Knight stack advances toward Orleans
Buy MA vs France from England for 11gpt

IBT
Vet Sword rebuffs Sword
Galley rebuffs barb Galley
St Petersburg Barracks - Pike
Kiev Lib - Worker
Hamburg Knight - Knight
Konigsberg Knight - Knight
Sevastopol Barracks - Pike
Bremen Worker - Worker
Yakutsk Worker - Knight
"The people love me"

7 - 520AD
Knight stack moves to hill NW Dijon (avoid attacking over river)
Elite Sword kills Spear (Dijon)
Elite Sword dies to Spear (Dijon)
Elite Sword kills Spear (Dijon) and captures city
Troops advance on Cherbourg
Hawk WM for 5gp

IBT
Fend off 4 Swords near Vladivostok for no loss
Knight dies to Longbow (NW Orleans)
Galley dies to barb Galley
Bonn Lib - Worker (zero growth)

8 - 530AD
Elite Knight kills Spear (Cherbourg)
Elite Sword kills stray Warrior and generates our first Great Leader (Richtoffen)
Richtoffen moves to New Stuttgart
Vet Knight retreats from Pike (Orleans)
Vet Knight kills Pike (Orleans) and promotes (2/5)
Vet Knight kills Pike (Orleans)
Vet Knight retreats from Spear (Orleans)
Vet Knight retreats from Spear (Orleans)
Vet Knight kills Spear (Orleans) and captures Orleans
Vet Knight kills Sword
Hawk WM for 5gp

IBT
Berlin Knight - Knight
Moscow Barracks - Knight

9 - 540AD
Richtoffen rushes Sun Tzu in New Stuttgart
Elite Knight retreats from Spear (Cherbourg)
Elite Sword kills Spear (Cherbourg) and destroys the town
Research 90% (Gunpowder in 2 turns @ -43gpt, 97gp in the bank)
Hawk WM for 4gp

IBT
Spot a couple of French units moving
Frankfurt Knight - Knight
Hannover Lib - Knight
Bonn Worker - Pike
Sverdlovsk Barracks - Knight
Cologne Pike - Worker (max pop)
New Munich Spear - Worker (zero growth)
New Hannover Spear - Galley
New Stuttgart Sun Tzu - Pike
Russia starts Sistine
France starts Leonardo's
England starts Leonardo's

10 - 550AD
Elite Sword kills Sword
Elite Knight kills Longbow
Move Knights out of Orleans - mis-clicked & they end up on plains :blush:
Research 80% (Gunpowder EOT @ -30gpt, 58gp in the bank)

Minimap
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGM02-Handy-AD550-minimap.gif

Notes
Not much to say except that our production is low but it seems that everyone else is in the same boat.

The 2 Swords (S Vladivostok) are on their way to capture Amiens. The Knights NW & WSW of Orleans could meet up to attack Paris in a couple of turns.

I haven't sold off our Barracks yet as New Stuttgart needs a better defense (just in case of counter-attack).

We still have a monopoly on Chivalry and we should research for Mil Trad as quickly as possible in order to sweep our continent clear of foreigners.

Score at 550AD: 824

The save is > here < (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Handy_SG002_AD0550_01.SAV)

Ted

handy900

Jun 04, 2004, 12:04 PM

Outstanding 10 turns. :goodjob:

Sun Tzu [dance] I love wonders that build something in every city. :D

Play Order
1. Handy
2. Tinkez
3. Oddible
4. maharaja
5. TedJackson
6. Coletite UP

Ted, since you are most familiar with the current situation, what do you recommend as the war objectives for the next 10 to 20 turns?

TedJackson

Jun 04, 2004, 01:11 PM

I think that taking (& probably re-taking) Paris will keep Coletite busy but if he does well with the RNG then Lyons (Furs) would be my next target. Beyond Lyons there's Marseilles (more Furs) but I think that's beyond the scope of the next 10 turns :)

We need to start tackling the jungle in our ring 1 cities as Knights are 70 shields and our best producer can only manage 19spt at the moment.

I'll try and look in later for some more comments.

Ted

Oddible

Jun 04, 2004, 01:51 PM

We have a LOT of jungle - maybe we can pump some workers out of the French cities to help in the task. Overall we don't have very many workers and could definitely use many more.

Nice work Ted!
Way to hit the French before their UU is a factor!

handy900

Jun 04, 2004, 02:23 PM

We have a LOT of jungle - maybe we can pump some workers out of the French cities to help in the task. Overall we don't have very many workers and could definitely use many more.

I suppose any of our corrupt cities (1 shield) with at least 2 food should start to pump out workers every 10 turns to chop some jungle. The former Russian FP cities should start to kick in some decent shield counts, and grow pretty quickly since they have lots of food IIRC.

coletite

Jun 04, 2004, 05:29 PM

I'm at work right now, so I won't be able to play until tonight. But from what I understand the priorities are:

1) Attack Paris (no mercy!)

2) Produce workers from cities that are either not growing or only produce one shield. French/Russian cities especially to get foreign pop down.

3) Clear jungles and mine hills to increase shield production in core cities.

4) Keep producing knights. I'm sure it won't come up, but just in case, is tehre a limit to the size we want our military?

5) Get some defense in New Stut. Maybe left-over swords?

A question: Ted mentioned something about selling off baracks. Can you do that after you've built Sun-Tzu? I thought that it only eliminated the maintenance cost on already built 'rax.

Will grab the save in about 7 hours, but will probably not play until tomorrow afternoon.

Oddible

Jun 04, 2004, 07:58 PM

Sounds good coletite. One specification tho is that the cities immediately surrounding out FP (Moscow) should not produce workers as they will be bustling metropolis with minimal corruption.

Selling the barracks also gives $$ (as well as the lack of maint).

coletite

Jun 04, 2004, 08:01 PM

Forgive my confusion:

Sun Tzu puts a 'rax in every city. You can then sell them back? Or just the ones you built before? And is there a way to tell that a 'rax was one you built or put there by Sun Tzu?

TedJackson

Jun 05, 2004, 01:26 AM

Right click on a Barracks in City View, for Barracks built by us there will be a sell option on the menu. IIRC they're only worth a couple of gp each.

Ted

coletite

Jun 05, 2004, 09:39 AM

I didn't know that- learn something new everyday! So if we weren't to sell them, then if we lost Sun Tzu we would still have the 'rax that we built, right? I thing the light just dawned!

I have more going on today then I thought, so I probably won't start my turns until later this afternoon.

[EDIT] Ok, got it and about to play (earlier then expected!! :clap: )

coletite

Jun 05, 2004, 01:39 PM

My first 2.5 turns:

Pre Flight

All looks good… pressing enter…

IBT

Joan wants peace… wishful thinking.
Learned Gunpowder, started Chemistry at 70% (10 turns)
Orleans flipped!!!
Munich knight-knight
Bremen worker-worker
Brandenberg worker-worker

560 AD (1)

The French do not appear to have saltpeter! We, however, do!
Knight retakes Orleans-start worker to bleed pop.

IBT

Minsk Library-market
Dort ‘rax (should have caught that, sorry.)-market
New Bremen warrior-worker

570 AD (2)

Moved some units around. Knights within striking distance of Paris.

IBT

Berlin knight-knight
Salz library-market
Cologne worker-market
New Konig worker-worker

580 AD (3)

Knight attacks Paris, w/d (withdraw)
Knight defeats pike at Paris, promotes
Knight loses at Paris
Knight defeats pike
Knight loses to pike
Knight w/d
Elite knight kills pike-no leader
Knight defeats longbow-promotes
Knight defeats pike-promotes
Knight defeats pike-promotes

Paris is ours!
-took 9 knights
-got four promotions to elite
-got Oracle
-11 resistors!
Started Settler in Paris

At this point, I am taking a break to get guidence from the team. Every one of the 11 citizens in Paris is resisting. Orleans already flipped once. How should I handle this?

1) post 2 knights in Paris. Leave others just outside to recapture after it flips. This should bring the pop down, but will probably need to be repeated. We could end up losing a good number of knights.

2) leave Paris ungaurded. Recapture when it flips. Repeat until pop is down to a manageable size. I'm not sure that pop goes down with each taking.

3) sue for peace. Hopefully it will make quelling resistors easier. But if it does flip, we would be unable to take it again.

Teams thoughts as soon as convenient. Thanks!

Oddible

Jun 05, 2004, 03:32 PM

What is the size of your stack like? If you leave the stack in Paris, how long to quell the resistors? Then when not in resistance, starve and workers to reduce pop. Still, that's parking the stack for a while tho right? Could move on just leaving a minimal defense behind (as you've suggested - do we have any other units that can be brought to Paris, like some of the unupgraded regular warriors?). My bet would be to keep the stack moving and take the cities surrounding Paris. That way, even if Paris flips, you'll have units nearby to take it back and it won't be so prone to flip the next time. Excellent charge into Paris!

coletite

Jun 05, 2004, 05:54 PM

I think it's about 8 knights. I'm afraid that if I leave them all in Paris that we will lose all those knoights knights when (not if) it flips.

Taking and retaking the city is probably the best option. I'll just need plenty of reinforcements.

Will resume in about 2 hours.

handy900

Jun 05, 2004, 07:50 PM

2) Produce workers from cities that are either not growing or only produce one shield. French/Russian cities especially to get foreign pop down.

Just to echo Oddible. Don't build workers in the former Russian cities near the FP. These cities need to grow. Basically build them in only corrupt cities. After you take French cities, you can rush buy workers to get the pop down. Wait 1 turns to earn 1 blue shield before you buy them, this makes them cost 1/2 as much as a rush buy with zero shields in the box.

3) Clear jungles and mine hills to increase shield production in core cities.

Yes work on the core.

4) Keep producing knights. I'm sure it won't come up, but just in case, is thrre a limit to the size we want our military?

There is a limit, but we are far from it.

A question: Ted mentioned something about selling off baracks. Can you do that after you've built Sun-Tzu? I thought that it only eliminated the maintenance cost on already built 'rax.

Yes - you can sell only those barracks you built from scratch. You get some cash this way. After you sell it, then Sun Tzu puts in the free barracks. The downside is, if you sell them, then lose Sun Tzu, you have to build them from scratch again. Ted didn't sell them since he wanted to make sure we could hold the city first, just a precaution.

Will grab the save in about 7 hours, but will probably not play until tomorrow afternoon.

No hurry. Good Luck :D

coletite

Jun 05, 2004, 09:56 PM

580 AD (3) cont.

Opted to starve Paris (when enough stop resisting)
Apparently we captured a catapult at Paris
Sword loses to spear at Amiens
Sword beats spear at Amiens
Sword takes Amiens and promotes to Elite
Amiens starts library

IBT

Learned Education from GL (Something’s better then nothing)
-got GL from Paris
St. P. Pike-library
Leip knight-knight
Konig knight-knight
Nuremberg ‘rax (another one I didn’t catch)-library
New Heidle worker-worker

590 AD (4)

So far no counter attack by Joan
Quelled NO resistors in Paris
Bombardment on Avignon failed
Elite knight attacks Avignon- w/d
Knight defeats pike at Avignon
Elite knight defeats spear at Avignon
Elite knight w/d from spear at Avignon
Knight kills spear and takes Avignon and promotes
Had to bump lux up and science down to keep berlin from rioting/starving

IBT

Knight loses to longbow
Cathy wants Gunpowder and WM for her WM (Ha!)
Berlin still rioted!?!?
Kiev worker-marketplace
Quelled 1 resistor in Avignon, still none in Paris

600 AD (5)

Catapult hurts Longbow
Knight kills longbow, promotes
Knight kills longbow
Knight kills longbow

IBT
Finally! Quelled 2 resistors in Paris
Ham knight-knight
Bremen worker-market
Bonn pike-market
Resistance in Dijon ended (I love their mustard)
New L. Worker-worker
England took Tours

610 AD (6)

Starving Paris
Moved stuff around

IBT

Quelled 2 resistors in Paris!
Moscow knight-knight
Quelled 2 resistors in Avignon
Yakutsk knight-knight
We now have saltpeter

620 AD (7)

Starving Avignon (It will grow back quickly)
Preparing to attack Lyons

IBT

Berlin knight-knight
Starvation at Paris
Oleans worker-worker
Stutt knight-knight

630 AD (8)

Elite knight redlines, but defeats pike at Lyons
Elite knight defeats pike at Lyons
Elite knight defeats pike at Lyons
Knight loses to pike
Lyons is ours!
We now have furs.
Knight defeats longbow

IBT

Knight w/d from longbow
Frank knight-knight
Kras pike-library

640 AD (9)

Starving Paris
Elite knight defeats longbow

IBT

Starvation at Paris
Sev pike-library
Sver knight-library
New munich worker-wealth (will take 20 turns to grow, only 10 for worker)
No counter attack by those cowardly French. (I fart in their general direction!)

650 AD (10)

Starving Paris
Knight defeats pike at Rheims, promotes
Knight w/d from pike at Rheims
Knight loses to SPEAR at Rheims!
Knight defeats pike at Rheims
Knight defeats murdering spear bastard at Rheims
Rheims is ours!
Starving Rheims
Knight defeats longbow

I ended my final turn a little early. Handy will still have some units to move and workers to assign. I just about got an ulcer worrying about those French cities flipping (Joan has a lot of culture) so now someone else can worry about them. I took Paris, Avignon, Lyons and Rheims.

There are three swords at Poitiers (SE) poised to strike next turn.

Chemistry comes up next turn. Cavalry isn’t far away!

France should fall soon. Hopefully they don’t have any stupid little islands. I vote for wiping Joan out altogether.

It doesn’t look like England has saltpeter, so once we get Cavalry, it’s time to womp some Brits!

Our score is 961

coletite

Jun 05, 2004, 10:02 PM

The Champagne Quarter of the German Empire:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Handy_Champagne_Quarter.jpg

Tinkez

Jun 06, 2004, 03:54 AM

Nice turns Coletite! Those French are beaten, Handy just has to finish them off. Then I can start focusing with English during my turns.

Prepare to be wiped out Elizabeth! :D

TedJackson

Jun 06, 2004, 05:15 AM

Nice work Coletite :thumbsup:

Paris fell a lot quicker than I expected :D

Ted

coletite

Jun 06, 2004, 04:12 PM

Well, when you are a strategic mastermind such as myself... :crazyeye:

Actually, I had REALLY good luck with the RNG. Hardly lost any knights and those that redlined almost always withdrew.

handy900

Jun 06, 2004, 07:18 PM

I got it. Will try to play & post tonight (Sunday).

handy900

Jun 06, 2004, 10:18 PM

Pre Turn
MM Yakutsk to get food so it will grow.
Vladivostok goes to worker, it’s corrupt. Ditto Dijon, Nuremberg, Amiens,

Switch Dortmund to courthouse
Cologne – MM top get more food. No change in shields per turn (spt)
New Berlin – courthouse
New Leipzig only has 1 food, so it goes to Library so border expansion will pull in some food.
New Munich to library so we do not waste the chop.
Change Paris entertainers to tax men
Orleans – library

IBT
Chemistry – metallurgy
St. Pete – Library – Market
Konigsburg – knight – knight
Brandenburg – worker – worker
Dijon – worker – worker
India begins Sistine

Turn 1 660ad
Poi tiers is ours.
Starve all French cities.

IBT
Berlin – knight – knight
Leipzig – knight – knight
Munich – knight – knight
New Hamburg – worker – worker
New Bremen – worker – worker

Turn 2 670
Capture Charters
Capture Grenoble

IBT
Lyons flips. Will take it again next turn. If all goes well the French are gone next turn.
New Hanover – galley – galley

Turn 3 680
Marseilles is ours

IBT
England takes the recently flipped Lyons
Moscow – knight – library
Hamburg – knight – library
Nuremberg – worker – worker
New Frankfurt – library – courthouse

Turn 4 690
We get furs via colony. Lux tax to 10%
Moving into position for England. Two turns left in the alliance.
England does not have Saltpeter, nor do they have Chivalry. :thumbsup:

Turn 5 700
Capture Rouen.
Can’t see any more French cities, must be a settler on a galley somewhere.
I don’t want to make peace yet. If a city flips we will have to retake it. France still has more culture than us. If we make peace, then lose cities, we’ll take a rep hit if we attack again after a peace deal.
I’m going to starve France to size 1 pop in all cities & quell resistance & then attack England.
I switched some of our productive cities to aqueducts & markets
Corrupt cities with forest are chopping libraries, otherwise they are building workers.
Workers are improving Berlin’s core or FP core.
Metallurgy in 5.

IBT
England & France make peace.
I see the French Galley
Berlin – knight – university
England building Sistine (we really could use Bach’s in this game)
Some of resistance ends.

Turn 6 710
Starving all French cities just to be safe. Positioning knights to quell the minimal resistance left.
Also getting into position to attack England.
Metallurgy in 3, -5gpt

IBT
More resistance ends.
Yakutsk – Aqueduct – knight

Turn 7 720
Moving into position
Metallurgy in 3, +54gpt.
Starving all French cities just to be safe, and for the ca$h.
Plan to declare & attack England next turn

IBT
Moscow – library – university
Minsk – market – knight
Frankfurt – knight – library
Vlad. – worker – worker
English building Sistine
England builds Leonardo’s for us. Need to attack before they trade for saltpeter [dance]

Turn 8 730
Declare war on England
They have a lot of units in Lyons, we’ll need to take that so those units don’t capture French cities.
Raze Newcastle to give us some space.
@ Lyons Kill sword Kill archer

IBT
Sword attacks out knight & he retreats. I love knights.
Hamburg – library – market
Konisburg – knight – knight

Turn 9 740
Lyons kill: pike, archer, elite sword is disgraced by losing to warrior. Elite knight kills the offender, elite kills sword Lyons is ours It’s off to England for the rest of you knights. Way too many elites in a row with no leader. :mad:
Raze Coventry. It was size 9. We can just resettle it. Plenty of cash to buy settlers after the corrupt cities chopping libraries are done.
Still in tech lead.

IBT
Bummer – England has chivalry now. I saw a knight.
Metallurgy – MT due in 8.
Leipzig – knight – knight
Heidelberg – library – settler
Most French cities have reached pop 1 and begun to grow again.

Turn 10 750
Take Tours Size 1 so I’ll keep it.

Notes:
I would go hard after england, before they have a chance to build many knights, or trade for saltpeter. If England does trade for SP, and you do see muskets, just wait for MT to come in.
No other civ can easily settle England's lands, so raze & resettle seems like a plan. I'm open to discussion though. Don't raze Leo's though. :D
You are set up to pillage some English Iron next turn. That takes away 1 trade option.
You are only 8 turns from cavalry, so don’t feel like you need to take a lot of risks.
Joan has Astronomy, so if you get a leader, you can trade for it & rush Copernicus in Berlin or Moscow.
Fell free to raze. We can get settlers from old France if we need them. All the old French cities are growing again. When they hit size 3 you can rush the settler.
Culture still below France, so you may yet get a flip down there. Odds are low but it could happen.
several corrupt cities are chopping libraries. Don't switch these. :D After they finish you can build settlers to fill in the English cities you raze. Upgrade knights to cav before you rush any settlers.

All coastal cities should build boats after they complete their current builds. We are not too far from invading the other continent.

Score 1113

>> SAVE 750 AD << (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Handy_SG002_AD0750_01.SAV)

Play Order edit 5-22-04
1. Handy
2. Tinkez <- UP
3. Oddible
4. maharaja
5. Ted
6. Coletite

Tinkez

Jun 07, 2004, 01:09 AM

Nice playing Handy :goodjob:

I'm at work now, will try to play this evening, but might have to postpone until tomorrow evening.

-Tinkez

Oddible

Jun 07, 2004, 02:10 AM

Killer turns Handy and coletite!

England builds Leonardo’s for us.

What city is Leonardo's in so we can be sure not to raze that one?

maharaja

Jun 07, 2004, 07:34 AM

nice works guys......very soon entire continent is going to be ours.....very busy with work so didn't get time to comment anything.....just came here to see if I got my turn.....

handy900

Jun 07, 2004, 07:35 AM

What city is Leonardo's in so we can be sure not to raze that one?\

I'm @ work so I can't tell. F6 or F7 will pull up a list of wonder & where they are located s for you so you can see which city it is in. It's pretty far in England's rear.

workers Check F3 for a worker count. IIRC we are in the high 50's not including slaves. Improvement of the core was going pretty well. I used chops for markets, libraries, aqueducts. Otherwise I build roads & irrigation. My focus was the Berlin & FP core. If we have 50+ workers, we can afford to build a few settlers in the corrupt cities that we can usew to settle England's razed cities as well as the land we will take on the other continent. One of the cities I razed Coventry is an awesome city site. Tons of food.

There was a lot of improvements made, so you may ant to do a quick MM check in the cities to ensure they are all working the best tiles.

Tinkez

Jun 08, 2004, 02:35 PM

Pre-checks:Looking nice, no adjusts to existing values. We're tech leaders, strong compared to others. Make mental note to build town near Rostov as there is still space. Wake galley in New Hannover to hunt down the french galley. Demand Russia to leave our territory.

Press enter.

IBT:
English Longbow kills our knight (2/4) on a hill and redlines.
English Archer loses to our knight(1/4) on same mountain.
Berlin university->cathedral (so many unhappy faces)
Brandenburg worker->worker

760AD(1):Galley loses to French galley redlining it.
Smolensk is captured by 2 elite knights(old russian city, not razed)
Nothing besides that happens, troops heal and move closer

IBT:
English longbowman kills our knight(3/4) on a mountain.
St.Petersburg market->knight
Sverdlovsk aqueduct->library
Salzburg market->aqueduct
New Hamburg worker->worker
Amiens worker->worker
New Bremen worker->library
Japanese start Sistine

770AD(2):Almost capture York, one redlined pikeman stays online :( Our knights redlined back to mountain.

IBT:
English want to talk, I don't.
Frankfurt library -> market
Hannover courthouse->market
Yakutsk knight->knight
Dortmund courthouse -> market
New Berlin courthouse->aqueduct
New Konigsberg library -> courthouse
New Hannover galley -> galley

780AD(3):Raze english city of (hmmm...name slipped my mind, anyway, location E of London).
Lose 1 elite knight in the process as he does not retreat :(
Attack on York but all knights except one retreat and manage to kill one pikeman.
One knight does a little damage to Canterbury by killing a spearman.

IBT:Chinese want to trade territory map, don't change in IBT.
Kiev marketplace -> settler
Odessa library -> market
Sevastopol harbor -> library
Stuttgart aqueduct -> market
Nuremberg worker -> library (lots of corruption though)
New Munich library -> worker
New Heidelburg library -> courthouse
Palace expands. I just love those two rocks :D ;)

790AD(4):Capture english settler
Our galley finally finds the redlined french galley and sinks the French to oblivion!
Gandhi seems to have discovered Astronomy. Don't trade it for chemistry.
Move knights to strike distance from York.
We need settlers, but those old french cities aren't large enough yet.

IBT:Konigsberg knight -> knight
Munich market->knight
Sverdlovsk aqueduct->market
Dortmund is unhappy, MM an entertainer to town.
Palace expands.
Galley sinks as it was too far after sinking that french galley.

800AD(5):Attack York, lose 3 knights to 3 pikemen, all become redlined. 3 next knights deal with York and raze that city.
I've attacked several times with elite knights and no sign of a leader. Damn!

IBT: Orleans settler->library
Bonn market->courthouse
New Cologne library -> market

810AD(6):English knight appeared to be slaughtered. First soften him up with a vet sword that is nearby. Sword dies. Then attack that knight with an elite knight, kill him and create a great leader :) I was already waiting for one...
I will stop after this turn for discussion with the team.

IBT:We discover cavalry! Set research on astronomy (which is currently known by Indians,English and Russians)
Moscow university -> cavalry
Poitiers worker->worker
New Stuttgart musket->library

Tinkez

Jun 08, 2004, 02:42 PM

Then some discussion and thoughts:

I stopped here as we have a leader available for use. In my opinion we should use him first, thus allowing a possibility to create a new one. The question is what to do with him?

1) Rush a wonder. Suggest Copernicus in Berlin, first trade astronomy from AI and then rush it.

2)Rush Sistine Chapel. Not so good as we're now on military path and don't need that much of this wonder

3) Build an army. Load it with cavalries and get a possibility for heroic epic and military academy.

What are your thoughts? I think number 3 is best as we now have cavalry which allows military academy also.

Troops are in place to take Canterbury which I will keep and upgrade all knights to cavalry there. Then continue assault into english core.

Is this ok plan? I will play rest of my turns tomorrow evening after some discussion.

-Tinkez

Tinkez

Jun 08, 2004, 02:46 PM

I uploaded the save to normal server (not submitted) if someone wants to take a look.

Link : Leader created (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Tinkez_Bismarck_820_AD.SAV)

-Tinkez

Oddible

Jun 08, 2004, 03:18 PM

#3 sounds good to me - we're in tech lead so no imperative to rush the wonders (though Sistines would be nice - if we have Cathedrals in our core our core will be enough to conquer the world!).

Still, a Cavalry Army would definitely get us on the Herioc Epic which would put us up for more leaders. That's my vote.

Oddible

Jun 08, 2004, 03:19 PM

760AD(1):Galley loses to French galley redlining it.

Has anyone ever seen a country fall to the Barbarians?

handy900

Jun 08, 2004, 03:36 PM

What we should do depends a little on our end game strategy.

If we want to end the game as soon as possible for the score bonus (and the glory of having the quickest win time) then we may want to build a cavalry army. A pike is no match for a cavalry army. We can raze the big English cities, keep the small ones with minimal resistance & get a lot of workers. Rush settlers from old France & the northern cities (after they chop their libraries).

OTOH, here is an outside the box idea. After we kill England, the cavalry army will be stuck at home until we can ship it via Galleon to the new lands. Unless - what do you think of trading for Astronomy. Upgrade a boat to caravel, and then ship the cavalry army with only 2 units loaded over now. Then load the third cavalry unit after you arrive. Immediately start knocking heads on the other continent. We can kill england England without the army since they are so out gunned. Overseas we would raze all cities & ship the slaves back home. After we beat England & create some space overseas, we settle with domination in mind. Settle 3 tiles apart to maximize the “auto fill” of tiles between cities, or rushing libraries to expand is another method. If we decide to do this, we need to start building more boats in coastal cities asap. This is a bad plan if the caravel has to pause on an ocean tile. It’s too risky to sail an army unless it’s clear sailing.

Copernicus will last all game long for us. I’m in way too many Succession games at the present, - did we already have our Golden Age?
I think Copernicus will start our Golden Age if we have not already had it..
If you rush Copernicus, do it in either Moscow or Berlin, whichever has the most commerce.

BTW, if we want to go for the quickest possible kill, we don’t want to build any cathedrals, just libraries, military from now on.

I don’t really have a strong opinion on the leader. Each option has pros & cons. Shipping the army over seas to attack is kind of appealing to me. Maybe this is too outside the box though. :crazyeye:

Other leader priorities:
Bach’s makes 2 happy in each city, and given how many cities we have, that’s a big deal and a priority. Sistine is not worth it if we are going for the quick kill.

handy900

Jun 08, 2004, 03:55 PM

Has anyone ever seen a country fall to the Barbarians?

If you can replay the save & get a screen shot that would probably qualify as a screen shot of the day. :lol:

coletite

Jun 08, 2004, 05:42 PM

I like the idea of sending an army over to the other continent. The nice thing about having an army is you can build Heroic Epic and Military Academy. With the Academy we can have a few armies across the sea wreaking havoc while we get our continent set up. I like the idea of a quick victory. No mercy!

Oddible

Jun 08, 2004, 09:25 PM

We definitely want a Golden Age at some point in this game - just such a boon that the score can't help but reflect it. Whether it is now with Copernicus or later (Bachs rulez) is a good question. On the other hand, we've been pretty shy on leaders despite a lot of aggression, so the HE would be nice and would definitely help us get more leaders.

I'm a huge fan of outside the box thinking and also of taking ridiculous risk (mostly when not in SGs as everyone hates me when they go awry) so would be up for just about anything in that regard. If we go that route, make sure you get one kill with the Army before you ship it overseas so we can begin work on the Heroic Epic pronto.

coletite

Jun 08, 2004, 10:02 PM

You know, if we send some pikes along with the army, we could give it a semi-safe place to recoup. Just thinking out loud.

A GA would be nice, but if we are going for a quick domination victory, then raising havoc will be far more beneficial. In fact, sending troops to the other continent can engage in "resource deprivation" whenever possible. I'll have to look at the save when I get home to see what we're dealing with. If we can slow down the other civs development we will be in a good position. We should also buy the other civs into war with each other. Let them pound away at each other. After 20 turns, whichever civ is leading the way can become our next target.

handy900

Jun 08, 2004, 11:40 PM

If we go that route, make sure you get one kill with the Army before you ship it overseas so we can begin work on the Heroic Epic pronto.

Just make sure you only load 2 cav in the army before you ship it. Caravels can hold 3, and the army counts as 1 + 2 cav = 3 total. If you load 3 cav in the army before you ship it overseas, it is stuck on our home continent until we can build galleons.

Copernicus & GA would be nice. Probably the safer & better play now that I think of it. But the overseas gambit does have some allure. You can decide. We should get another leader pretty quick with all our new cavalry killing English. :D

coletite

Jun 08, 2004, 11:54 PM

I may be wrong, but getting a GA from building a wonder is random, right? It only gives you a chance. It would be a gamble.

Pros: Increase in science (a definite plus given that we're Scientific), potential GA

Cons: may not produce GA, use a leader

Sending an army over to the other continent would be a much bigger risk, but it could have some big rewards in the long run.

Pros: disrupt other civs, get them started in a war instead of building, make it easier to get a toe-hold when it is time to conquer, be able to build Heroic Epic and Military Academy

Cons: no wonder-no GA, might lose the army without enough gain

If we go with the army, I'd say be a pain in the :blush: while we wipe out the English, take a city on the coast at the end of our skirmish, sue for peace then start sending the army over sea, spreading our empire out from the seed city. That way we have less of a wait between the English conquest and the rest of the world. If we can capture/build a city on the border between 2 civs, we can maintain the peace treaty with one, then attack the other.

coletite

Jun 09, 2004, 12:56 AM

I just took a look at the save.

Everyone on the other continent has iron and saltpeter. (Nagayo is built on saltpeter)

My thought:

Send army over to India.
Buy an alliance with Japan and China
Take Hyderabab (or raze and found our city in place)
Continue to wipe out English.
Build Caravels and a substantial military
After the 20 turns, sue for peace with India.
Build up Hyderabab (harbor) and ship military over to it.
Declare on Japan.
Wipe out Japan
Establish a solid foundation in Japanese lands
Re-declare on India
Wipe out India
Move on to China (Unless we've reached domination limit)

In fact, it looks like we may not need to take much of the other continent to achieve domination.

We should have Navigation soon, which would make it safe for Caravels to get to the other side of the world.

Tinkez

Jun 09, 2004, 01:05 AM

I like the idea of sending the army on the other continent. I will do that tonight after work while getting rid of the English.

Btw: Have you guys ever got a leader from an army with elite troops? I think that should be possible, but I'm not sure as I haven't got any ever. Please confirm. :confused:

Rest of the turns coming up in 10 hours.

-Tinkez

maharaja

Jun 09, 2004, 10:41 AM

sending troop into another continent is nice idea.......Good play Tinkez....u wiped out Japan & India now english left very good move. :goodjob:

I got couple of time Leader after a war, infact in my first finish game I got two leader in between only 4 turns. I don't know how we got them?

Tinkez

Jun 09, 2004, 11:28 AM

Rest of the turns:

820AD(7):Move leader to Kiev and build army.
Attack Canterbury with a vet knight -> retreat
Attack Canterbury with elite knight -> kill pike
Attack Canterbury with elite knight -> kill spear and conquer Canterbury.
Upgrade 12 knights to cavalry in Canterbury

IBT:Indians want to trade their WM for WM+chemistry. HAH!
Our knight wins against english knight on a mountain.
Leipzig cavalry -> settler
Yakutsk cavalry -> settler
Vladivostok worker -> library
Cologne market -> cavalry
New Nuremberg harbor -> library

830AD(8):New Salzburg founded -> library
Upgrade 6 more knights to cavalry, total count is now 20 cavalry
Move a stack of cavalry towards Novgorod

IBT: Berlin cathedral -> colosseum as pre-build for Heroic epic.
Kiev settler -> settler
Krasnoyarsk library -> courthouse
New Frankfurt settler -> courthouse

840AD(9): Conquer Novgorod with 2 cavalry, set to build library
Galley dies to barb galley. Damn.
Gather cavalry ready to attack Nottingham next turn.

IBT:Hamburg market -> cavalry
Smolensk library -> worker
Heidelberg settler -> market
Yakutsk cav -> cav
Palace expands!
Indians start copernicus.

850AD(10):Vet Cav kills elite spear and promotes to elite (4/5) at Nottingham
Vet cav kills reg knight @Nottingham
Vet cav LOSES to REG SPEAR :(
Vet cav kills last spear, Nottingham RAZED!
Vet cav gallups to Liverpool along the road and kills reg pike, promotes to elite (3/5)
Vet cav gallups to Liverpool along the road and kills vet spear, conquers Liverpool (not razed)
New Dortmund founded W of Kiev.

Remarks: Old French cities are ready to rush some settlers.
Also, there is only one defender in Liverpool, so it might get captured IBT, but it'll be easy to recapture.-
Troops are ready to invade London, they're on a mountain at range.
Leader with army is also on the same mountain, he's still out of action as I did a small mistake and made the army in Kiev -> no cavalry there, so it took longer to get it to action as I waited one turn for cavalry to arrive to Kiev and load it there and then run to the front.

Next player should be able to wipe the english out quite easily. There is one cavalry ready at New Bremen to deal with longbow (NE of continent). There is also a settler heading S Rostov to establish a town there.

Our score is 1274 (only :( )

The save : HERE (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Handy_SG002_AD0850_01.SAV)

Good luck :goodjob:

Tinkez

Jun 09, 2004, 11:30 AM

The screenshot:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Tinkez_850AD.JPG

handy900

Jun 09, 2004, 05:08 PM

:thumbsup: We almost rule our continent. Very well done!!

1. Handy
2. Tinkez
3. Oddible <- UP
4. maharaja
5. Ted
6. Coletite

Our score is 1274

Yeah - I wonder if they hav their lux tax turned way up to get happy faces? Could we be that far behind in the size of our territory? :confused:

coletite

Jun 09, 2004, 08:17 PM

handy900

Jun 09, 2004, 10:07 PM

I think a few teams got their settler factory up and running before we did and thus expanded more in teh beginning. However, we should be gaining a LOT of new land soon. Plus, if we can win as early as possible we should get a significant bonus to our score.

Yeah - we can end this game pretty fast I think. Th AI will have built roads for our cavalry to speed things up.

Oddible - We need to be building boats in our productive coastal cities to transport our invasion force. All we need to build are boats, Cavalry & settlers in corrupt cities for a quick domination win.

We need to pick our first victim overseas, then start a war between the other 2 AI's to weaken them.

coletite

Jun 09, 2004, 10:49 PM

Japan will be the most accessible, plus there is, IIRC, a nice chokepoint between Japan and India. How's this sound for a plan:

1) Declare on Japan
2) On the same turn, buy an alliance with India against China.
3) Wipe out Japan.
4) By the time Japan is wiped, our 20 turn obligation to India should be over, their forces should be engaged in the south and (hopefully) severely weakend. We then declare on India. From the looks of the map, if we expand all our borders in the home land then we shouldn't even need to bother with China to pull off the domination victory.

BTW- what would be considered a good year to achieve a domination vicotry on a map this size?

Oddible

Jun 09, 2004, 11:46 PM

Got it. Will play tomorrow evening...

handy900

Jun 10, 2004, 06:26 PM

Btw: Have you guys ever got a leader from an army with elite troops? I think that should be possible, but I'm not sure as I haven't got any ever. Please confirm

I don't think you can get get a leader from an army. I never have despite lots of AW games with lots of army elite wins. Veterans in an army can get promoted, which makes your army more powerful.

Oddible

Jun 11, 2004, 12:43 AM

Good to make Armies of units that have already produced a leader then!

Playing...

handy900

Jun 11, 2004, 08:21 AM

Good to make Armies of units that have already produced a leader then!

Playing...

Exactly. Put Elites that have already given you a leader into armies.

Oddible

Jun 11, 2004, 04:28 PM

Hey guys, something came up and I wasn't able to finish last night - not tonight either I'm afraid. I will absolutely finish tomorrow morn (Sat). If that is an issue, than skip me and I'll catch it next time around. Lemme know.

Sorry.

[Edit: OK, no response yet so I'm continuing now, will post turns shortly...]

Oddible

Jun 12, 2004, 03:06 PM

Question. When to cut off war with England. I've almost cleared her from the continent but are these little isles worth pursuing? I would guess not as the talk has focused around an immediate conflict across the sea. I just bought 6 caraval and am ready for a victim.

---

Future victims: Japan, China, India.

Japan has the highest score and is perhaps the biggest threat but their lands are going to be hard for them to defend if we work the Nagoya isthmus (if we
pop the roads at Nagoya or take Nagoya itself (perhaps on the first turn of
the war) Japan is as good as done). Nagoya is also their only source of saltpeter. They have wine.

India is the weakest so is the obvious choice for landing a foothold on the
other continent. They have 2 saltpeter, Hyderabad and Bombay (anyone working
India will have to stay on top of keeping those disconnected). They have
spices and dyes. The defining feature of India is the messy jungle area
which will be very troublesome for foreign units to cross to get to opponents
on either side.

China is highly industrialized and nearly all cities on rivers. However, no
saltpeter and only one lux, dyes. They will be pumping out a lot of units
tho. Riders. Any China strategy will be to knock out the horses pretty quick
if not the first turn.

I think I'm leaning toward India as they have 2 luxuries which would help our score and our war motives. Checking coletite's plan...

Send army over to India.
Buy an alliance with Japan and China
Take Hyderabab (or raze and found our city in place)
Continue to wipe out English.
Build Caravels and a substantial military
After the 20 turns, sue for peace with India.
Build up Hyderabab (harbor) and ship military over to it.
Declare on Japan.
Wipe out Japan
Establish a solid foundation in Japanese lands
Re-declare on India
Wipe out India
Move on to China (Unless we've reached domination limit)

Only change would be that India would be completely wiped in the first effort. Only worry is that 20 turns is too long before we declare on China or Japan - not like we really need to care too much. Essentialls being to take all jungle cities since they're the best defensibly.

If I don't hear otherwise, that's my plan...

TedJackson

Jun 12, 2004, 03:17 PM

Sounds good to me Oddible.

I wouldn't bother pursuing England to the islands unless there's a resource to be had there :)

Ted

Oddible

Jun 12, 2004, 04:09 PM

Trouble. Japan wants our undefended English conquests in the north. I would prefer a war with India since they're closer and until we get Magnetism it would be annoying to get to Japan. I could make the rash move of abandoning that city so they can't declare and then try to get them into our war with India. But that sacrifices some score right? Otherwise its wait until they declare and then get RoP with India. Hmm.

Oddible

Jun 12, 2004, 05:33 PM

Pre

Looks good. Next...

IBT

Japanese want to trade TMs. They have no gold. Nope.
Japanese galley is moving up our west coast.

English galley moving sw.

St. Peter: Cav > Cav
Leipzig: Settler > Cav
Konigsberg riots.
Dijon: worker > galley (will switch to caraval)

860AD - 1

Am I taking London this turn?
London: vet Cav * reg Pike (3/4)
London: vet Cav * reg Pike (5/5) Promotes!
London: vet Cav * reg Spear (2/4)
London: vet Cav * reg Spear (4/4)
London: vet Cav * reg Spear (3/4)
London: vet Cav * reg Spear (3/5) Promotes!
London: Army * reg Archer (7/8)

London falls!
We capture the Great Wall!

Starving and settlers...

Captured worker by Dover

Upgrade Knight

What is our goal? Are we going to rush to try to be the earliest finish? That doesn't seem particularly realistic. Then would we go for score? As a scoring game, we will at some near point have to pull up short (as in not trigger a domination win) and start to milk our score a bit by building culture. I think the highest scores are achieved by having the improvements built early so they have a chance to compound culture increases over time.

We're building a lot of settlers? Switch a bunch to Librarys.

Near Leeds: Cavalry * Archer (4/4)

Build Embassy in Japan
They're 36 turns from Sistines
2 Spear, 2 Pike, 1 Samurai garrisoned.

Build Embassy in China
Building a Rider (oh yeah, Riders, ouch)
3 spear, 1 sword, 1 warrior garrisoned

IBT

Astronomy > Navigation
Thought if we had Magellans we'd be better apt to get out units moved to the other continent - though we'll probably have the game finished before we build it!

Knogsberg: Cav > Cav
New Hamburg: Worker > Caraval

870AD - 2

Make some switches from Settlers to Caravals
Berlin: Switch from Colisseum to Heroic Epic (in 7)

Hastings: vet Cav * reg Pike (1/4)
Hastings: vet Cav * reg Spear (1/4)

Hastings falls!
We capture Leonardo's Workshop!

Oxford: vet Cav * reg Pike (2/4)
Oxford: vet Cav * reg Spear (4/4)
Oxford falls!

IBT

Cavalry falls to Longbow by Liverpool
Liverpool Riots!

880AD - 3

near Liverpool: Cav * Longbow (3/4)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Handy_SG002_Gepid.jpg
Gepid barbarians rise up and try to make a claim in the conquered English lands. The Gepid are vanquished (2 conscript warriors).

Leeds: vet Cav * reg Spear + Catapult (1/4)
Leeds falls!

Buy 6 Caravals (~$400)

Dover: vet Cav * reg Pike (2/4)
Dover: ver Cav * reg Spear
(Cav was named Knight? Not an asterisk unit - how renamed?)
Dover falls!

IBT

Moscow: Cav > Cav
Bremen: Market > Aque
Avignon: Caraval > Caraval
Sverdlosk: Market > Caraval (in 4!)
Bensacon: Caraval > Caraval

Resistence in Liverpool has ended.

New Lezig: Caraval > Caraval
Amiens: Caraval > Caraval
New Frankfurt: Caraval > Caraval
New Hannover: Caraval > Caraval

890AD - 4

Brighton: elite Cav * reg Spear (5/5)
Brighton: elite Cav * reg Spear (5/5)
Brighton falls! No more English on the German continent!

Peace with England!
Deal includes 9g, Birmingham, Reading, Richmond!
England is a single city state.

Buy Settler in London

IBT

Minsk: Musket > Mustket

900AD - 5

New Brandenburg founded!
Sverdlosk: Switch Prebuild Magellan's (Copernicus)

IBT

Munich riots!
New Bonn: Library > Market

910AD - 6

Berlin 2 founded.

IBT

Kiev: Musket > Mustket
Yakutsk: Cav > Cav
Salzburg: Aque > Cav
Dortmund riots!

Japan has moved a warrior into our territory near Birmingham
They have two galleys in the north heading for our other undefended English cities. We may not be making the choice on this invasion.

I need two turns to declare on India. Japan would be a pain to get to without Magnetism. Well, maybe I'll try an RoP and see what they do.

920AD - 7

Japan: RoP, they give us 27g and WM

IBT

Japan declares war! (well at least we got the cash)

Navigation > Physics
We can now sail in oceans.

Hamburg: Cav > Cav
Konigsberg: Cav > Cav
Frankfurt: Market > Cav
Munich: Cav > Court

930Ad - 8

Embassy with India
Sistine in 10
4 pikes, 1 sword, 1 settler

Alliances:

India > MA/RoP v. Japan
We give Spice & Ivory
They give 144g + 5gpt

China > MA/RoP v. Japan
They have silks but want both Saltpeter and Chemistry for them, not gonna do it.
They give WM + 5g
We give Ivory

I get the crazy idea that maybe I shouldn't have done that and that India would be fine as a buffer whilst I declare on China (or wait for them to MA with Japan). But think better of it - I don't think India can hold Japan alone.

Japanese galley by Dover. They're going to take all the cities we got from England in the north. I almost want to give them back to England. Will do if Japan drops troops there.

Leipzig 2 founded!

IBT

Heroic Epic completed!
Berlin > Cav
St. Peter: Cav > Cav

Palace expansion!

3 Japanese galleys on our west coast

940AD - 9

I land 6 Cav near Macao, China to use RoP roads to get to Japan

IBT

Japan drops troops near Berlin2

Moscow: Cav > Cav

950AD - 10

near Berlin2: vet Cav * reg Archer (2/4) Promotes!
near Berlin2: elite Cav * reg Archer (5/5)

Landed 3 Cav near Hyderabad with intentions on Nagasaki
Second Caraval has left from our east toward Hyderabad
Third Caraval from east has 2 Cav and a third is on its way.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Handy_SG002_850East.jpg

In the west, there are 2 Caravals pushing units over into China since Cavs move faster on land than Caravals in water. Troops are struggling with China and India over road use. Third Caraval is on its way to help. Most of our army is in the west waiting for these 3 ships to get the ferrying done.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Handy_SG002_850West.jpg

Physics in 3, +12gpt.
Currently 444g.

Parting thoughts

You might want to send another Cav or two to the north in case Japan drops any troops up there. I wouldn't focus on that little island, but the mainland instead. Mostly they seem to be going for our undefended cities. Note, undefended cities are ok as long as they're not in danger (interior). Keep pushing Cavs west or east to the waiting ferrys.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Handy_SG002_850North.jpg

Taking Nagasaki will cap Japan's dyes so essential. Looks like we're going to be dropping troops in the south and having them run north to get into the battle. No sense in risking out ships by taking them north by sea (since the ships are slower anyway).

Sverdlovsk is building Magellan's, but if you get a leader, you might consider building it in a coastal city on the other continent (make sure its a well defended one that won't flip), just to avoid having to bring the leader back - on the other hand, that would be the safe route.

Nagoya has the saltpeter so a run from Nagasaki to Shimonseku to Izumo to Nagoya would give them some stress. Also can knock out their horses on that route, south of Osaka. Osaka has wines (not their only wines, so this would be for us and not necesssarily to hurt them - taking Osaka will be especially usfull if we have harbors on the new continent and at home.

If Japan drops troops by Reading or Richmond (the isle in the north), just give those cities to England.

Firaxis score: 1474
Jason score: 1125

..................................
The Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Handy_SG002_AD0950_01.SAV)
..................................