SGOTM2 Germany - Team Handy [Archive] - Civilization Fanatics' Forums

handy900

May 15, 2004, 12:41 PM

Hello all and welcome to the team! :D This will be large fun.

I firmly believe Max asked me to host the game based on experience running a Succession Game, not for playing ability. :lol:

I play for fun. I enjoy the strategic discussion that takes place in SG’s and it has enhanced my playing ability immensely.

Suggestion Since we do not want the wooden spoon, please honestly pipe up about playing experience so we can set a good order. Coletite Thanks for your honesty. I put you last, and put Ted before you and I play after you. Don’t fret. You will learn a lot and have fun in the process. Tinkez If you prefer 3rd, pipe up, and Oddible can switch if he wants to.

Play Order edit 5-22-04
1. Handy
2. Tinkez
3. Oddible
4. maharaja
5. Ted
6. Coletite

Here are the game parameters:
Civ: Germans
Difficulty: Monarch
Map size: Standard
Map shape: Continents
Barbarians: Raging Horde
Climate: Normal
Temperature: Temperate
Age: 4 Billion Years
Game: All victories; Restarting players off
Opponents (F10)
Russia - |Sci. & Exp.| BW & P | Cossacks
France - |Com. & Ind.| M & A| Muskets
England - |Exp. & Com.| A & P| MOW
Japan - |Rel. & Mil.| CB & W| Sams
India - |Com. & Rel.| CB & A| Dumbos
China - |Mil. & Ind.| WC & M| Riders

Opening Play
I’d favor settling on the spot, road & mine both BG’s. That’s 20 worker turns. (G;RRR;MMMMMM,G,RRR,MMMMMM). Build 3 warrior scouts & then chop a granary. If we settle & worker movement reveals some additional bonus, the worker moves may change. Research Pottery @ 100% to get it in 14. Then we can chop a granary. At monarch I would normally go for a settler flood, but raging barbarians will cause us to provide escorts for all settlers. We will have to watch F3 to see which city an uprising is nearby. Our early game goal should be to grab lands until the continent is set. The we can attack our weakest neighbor.

I’ll play later today or Sunday to give everyone a chance to post comments. I don’t think I can lose it in 20 turns. :lol:

VARIANT
I’d recommend we play this straight up. This would be a hard long Always War game. The mini map suggests we are in the middle of the continent, Fighting a two front war with raging barbarians would make this a looooooong game. I’m in if you all want to do it, but it will be very difficult, at least an Emperor Plus or “Deity Light” level game in difficulty.

Victory Goal Given we are scientific, and have Panzers, Domination or conquest seems appropriate. As long as it is no diplo, I don't really care. Space shots are fun, but can get a boring towards the end on monarch level since we will be so far ahead.

SGOTM etiquette (blatantly plagiarized from Mad-Bax & Greebley)

Don’ts
Don’t automate workers.
Don’t use city governors.
Don’t leave units on go-to orders that extend beyond your set of turns.
Don’t change build orders wholesale on your inherited turn.
Don't leave significant units like leaders fortified. Other problems are things like workers fortified in town, boats fortified, etc. I prefer the “Y” key to place units in border cities on sentry. If AI units approach that you do not have an ROP with, the unit wakes up, alerting you to the AI’s presence (Very important when at war so you notice attacks away from the front).
Don't ruin our reputation by breaking trades without the teams permission. This is a biggie. At monarch we will have the AI paying us insane levels of gold when we get to the modern age. I've gotten 300+ GPT trades for ToE Industrial Techs.

DO
DO be polite and constructive on you comments on game play. (if your sentence starts: "Who was the goober-nose that ... ", or “WTF…”; its a bad sign). :lol:
DO ask for a “skip” if real Life (RL) gets in the way of playing. Ask to be skipped, or play your turns on time. Please don't just go missing in action.
DO finish all your turns and upload the game saved at the END of the last turn.
DO follow the GOTM Rules (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/gen/rules2.shtml)
DO stick rigidly to the saved game naming convention. HANDY_SG002_BC4000_02.sav; HANDY_SG002_BC3000_02.sav; etc.
DO include the turn number and the in-game date for each turn in your log. Note: you receive the game at turn 0
DO include reasons you made wholesale changes to city build orders (definitely called for in certain circumstances – like war. Usually however these circumstances are discussed - such as a decision to go to war.). Just supply a good reason for your decision in the log. The player before you may learn something new. One of the key points of succession games is that people do have different ways of playing, which teaches one different ways of approaching the game.
DO include a “NOTES” summary at the end of the turn log that communicates your intentions. (Where is that galley going?)
DO please post your score at the end of your turn. (SGOTM "DO" only)
DO read any previous discussion and the previous players turn. (Hopefully the previous player summarized very important parts in the final notes). This will avoid having good plans started by one player continuing with the next.
DO check F1 each turn to make sure cities will not riot next turn.
DO stop in the middle of your turns, post a save and ask for the team’s opinion if you are unsure what to do. Say the Zulu are demanding tribute, the team plans to eventually attack the Zulu, but you are not sure we are ready yet. Post a save if you want some help. I have learned a lot this way. If something comes up during your turn which is a difficult decision, then it is completely appropriate to stop playing so a discussion can occur on the best path to follow.
DO aks players why they did something you don't understand. That's how we all learn & get bnetter.
Do feel free to explain in your post why you did something. Also feel free to ask players to comment on your decisions. Such as, I'm not sure if I should do X or Y, I chose X because of ___, was this okay?
DO forgive Handy for Typos :p

Let’s get ready to Ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuummmmmmble :hammer:

handy900

May 15, 2004, 12:57 PM

First early leader forms army so we can build Heroic Epic. Subsequent leaders split between forming armies and wonder production. Speaking of which, since we are also scientific, making sure we get the science wonders would boost the trait's effectiveness.

I think it depends on when we get the leader. The Pyramids are soooo powerful I hate to pass them up if I have an early leader.

Since we are militaristic, I recommend Sir Pleb's excellent article on
Leader fishing (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3acad_leaders.shtml) if you have no read it yet. He makes some interesting points about the effectiveness of the Heroic Epic in the early game (non AW game). When it makes sense, when it does not. Building wonders that place a building in each city (SZ, Pyramids) or have an effect on each city (Smith's) just so powerful. Pyramids are almost unfair in a human players hands. Almost :D

coletite

May 15, 2004, 02:12 PM

Cool.

I win regularly on regeant (no losses, but a lot of incomplete games as I've tried to refine various parts of my strategy). I just started playing on Monarch and haven't completed a game yet.

One point of claification- when I finish my turns, I save just before hitting "done" on my 10th turn? Likewise, when I start, the first thing I will do (after checking out hte way things stand) is hit "done?" Just want to get this out of the way early.

I'm all for a domination/conquest victory. I've been trying to remain balanced between war and building. That is, some games I'll go for a space race, others will be conquest. My weakest point (that I'm aware of) is fighting protracted wars with opponents on other continents. So this could be a good learning experience for me.

On the conquest subject- is an early win out of the question? I know we don't get Panzers until MA. We may not even want to go for an early win, but it has been my experience that once you hit MA, whether or not winning is inevitable is already decided and it can get a bit dull running giant stacks of artillary and tanks across the map against riflemen and infantry. Just my .02

Tinkez

May 15, 2004, 02:13 PM

I can play as second player, so the roster looks fine by me.

The leaders are a difficult one and if our strategy will be to expand as much as possible without wars, then it might take while before we get our first leader. At that point the forbidden palace is also a good choice as the first leader usage. That way we'll get second core easily (assuming we get that leader :) )

I also recommend settling on the spot, though move the worker first (to east?) and see if something great appears and act accordingly.

@Handy: You can start playing and then after we'll see a bit more of the map, we can make more detailed plans. Your first 20 turns plan looks ok to me. Just leave me a nice spot to continue :D (not like 20+ barbarians next to our capital :lol: )

-Tinkez

coletite

May 15, 2004, 02:16 PM

@Handy- is it possible for you to post a screen cap after you settle?

handy900

May 15, 2004, 06:00 PM

@Handy- is it possible for you to post a screen cap after you settle?

Absolutely.

One point of claification- when I finish my turns, I save just before hitting "done" on my 10th turn? Likewise, when I start, the first thing I will do (after checking out hte way things stand) is hit "done?" Just want to get this out of the way early

Yes, that is exactly how to play it. Sometimes you might notice something before you hit enter on the inherited turn that needs to be done.

On the conquest subject- is an early win out of the question? I know we don't get Panzers until MA. We may not even want to go for an early win, but it has been my experience that once you hit MA, whether or not winning is inevitable is already decided and it can get a bit dull running giant stacks of artillary and tanks across the map against riflemen and infantry. Just my .02

I win regularly on regeant (no losses, but a lot of incomplete games as I've tried to refine various parts of my strategy). I just started playing on Monarch and haven't completed a game yet.

By the end of this game you will know how to smoke Monarch. :goodjob:

The game should be over, or in heavy mop up mode before we get to tanks, unless of course we decide to go for a space shot. I win about 90% of the time via domination or conquest. I don't play alot of games with Raging Barbs, but I'd expect a sword war, then during knights we gain total control our continent. Cavalry + rails + artillery will clean out the AI on the other size. If we actually build a panzer we may get the wooden spoon. Ugh.

Unless we have a really poor staring spot (unlikly in a former GOTM) we should be able to out settle the AI. After that we'll get aquainted with the neigbors. ;)

handy900

May 15, 2004, 06:16 PM

4000 BC
Moved worker east to the BG and settled on the spot after i saw the forest game tile. Then I settled and saw wheat on plains to the northwest.

[dance] Official Settler Factory (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3acad_deity_settlers.shtml) for us.

Chop and irrigate the game, irrigate the wheat & we have 5 extra food in the home city after border expansion.

Pottery is due in 14 @ 100% research. I'll mine & road the BG. Next I'll chop & Irrigate the Game. The chop will go towards a granary. I'll build 3 warriors before the granary. The next couple of players can mine & road the other BG, then irrigate the wheat and we will be in business.

May need a couple more warriors if barbs show up, but that's the plan.

Play Order (unless we switch Tinkez & Oddible)
1. Handy <-playing, will post Saturday night.
2. Tinkez
3. Oddible <- needs to check in
4. Ted <- Where are you. :confused:
5. Coletite

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HANDY_SG002_BC4000_02_pic1.JPG

handy900

May 15, 2004, 07:47 PM

SGOTM2 team handy
Turn 0 4000 BC
Move worker east to the BG.
Found Berlin.

Moved worker east to the BG and settled on the spot after i saw the forest game tile. Then I settled and saw wheat on plains to the northwest.
Official Settler Factory for us. Once we have chopped and irrigated the game & wheat, we will have 5 extra food in the home city.

Set build to warrior & select pottery is due in 14 @ 100% research. I'll mine & road the BG . Next I'll chop & Irrigate the Game. The chop will go towards a granary. I'll build 3 warriors before the granary. The next couple of players can mine & road the other BG, then irrigate the wheat and we will be in business. If the water N of the wheat is a lake, it will save us having to drag water up to the wheat.

May need a couple more warriors if barbs show up, but that's the plan.

Turn 1 3950 BC
Worker starts a mine.

Turn 2 3900
:sleep:

Turn 3 3850
:sleep:

Turn 4 3800
:sleep:

IBT (In Between Turns)
Berlin -> warrior -> warrior

Turn 5 3750
Warrior moves N onto the mountain. His name is Franz & he will explore north

Turn 6 3700
The water N of the wheat is a fresh water lake :D

IBT
Mine completes

Turn 7 3650
Worker starts road.
Franz is staying on the mountains moving N.
Two spotted NW of the wheat.

Turn 8 3600
Spot river NW of the ivory.

Turn 9 3550
Franz finds the ocean to the N
Hanz heads due W to the mountains, then he will mountain hop to the south.

Turn 10 3500
Borders expand. The border expansion reveals spices 3 tiles (S-S-SW) of Berlin.
Road completes. Move to the game to chop it.

Turn 11 3450
Exploring

Turn 12 3400
Exploring

Turn 13 3350
Exploring.

IBT
Pottery -> I decided on the Wheel since no one else starts with it. I hope we can trade for the other stuff. Research is at 100% due in 18. I always like to know where the ponies are. After this maybe IW.
Berlin –> warrior -> warrior

Turn 14 3300
Explore

Turn 15 3250
Johann is moving E and spots wheat.

Turn 16 3200
Explore

Turn 17 3150
Lots of Jungle to the south. Good land North & land East. Lots of mountains to the west.
Have not seen any barbs or huts yet.
Berlin is undefended in case you were wondering.

Turn 18 3100
North looks good. Fresh water, plains, cows, Ivory, Grasslands

Turn 19 3050
Explore
Flood plains & wheat to the east.

Turn 20 3000
Berlin grows, so the slider needs an adjustment to keep the people happy.

Notes:
Watch growth in Berlin to make sure you do not have happiness problems. Check F1, our gola is no wasted turns due to revolts all game long. :D

The worker finishes the chop next turn. He should then irrigate & build a road on the game. After that he can move to the other BG, road & Mine it, then irrigate & road the wheat.

During this time you can build a spears to act as military police in Berlin. Normally I’d build warriors for this, but with raging barbs we probably want spears. You can build a barracks in 4 turns. I’d do it, but it’s debatable.
Next city spot is open to debate. I like due south of the western most Elephant. This places it next to fresh water. It can build veteran spears to escort our settlers, and provide a luxury. When it grows to big we can peel off a worker, then go back to building more spears.
I think we should keep Franz heading north and Hanz heading south. Hopefully they can make contact & do some trades. Johann can move clockwise along the black area to reveal the lands near our capital.
Our growth is going to explode when the settler factory is complete.

Any questions fire away. I’m going to upload our file using the SGOTM upload thread. If I have any problems, I’ll post an attachment later.

Be sure to use the SGOTM file name convention for your saves.
The 3000 BC file is named HANDY_SG002_BC3000_02.sav

Everyone plays 10 turns from now on.

Good Luck
Play Order (unless we switch Tinkez & Oddible)
1. Handy <- just played.
2. Tinkez <- UP
3. Oddible <- needs to check in. I sent a PM.
4. Ted <- needs to check in. I sent a PM.
5. Coletite

One final request. If you post a [I]wide screenshot, do it in a separate post, that way readers don’t have to scroll back & forth to read your text log. Chopped down screenshots are okay to embed in your turn log.

Oh, almost forgot – our score is 69.

Here is the save. Good Luck Tinkez!

Save 3000 BC (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Handy_SG002_BC3000_01.SAV)

handy900

May 15, 2004, 07:49 PM

The world as qwe know it in 3000 BC.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HANDY_SG002_BC3000_02_pic1.JPG

coletite

May 15, 2004, 08:05 PM

The red dot looks good. How likely is it that our nearest opponent is to the NW? Do we want to concentrate on expanding toward our neighbors to grab land away from them or is it still too early to worry about that?

Also, what is our general strategy for city placement? Personally, I don't care for RCP. If we are going for a heavy military game then ICS may be an option.

One more question: how do I add images? Is there a link that has good information on drawing on screen caps? I tried Paint, but it didn't turn out to well.

handy900

May 15, 2004, 08:37 PM

The red dot looks good. How likely is it that our nearest opponent is to the NW? Do we want to concentrate on expanding toward our neighbors to grab land away from them or is it still too early to worry about that?

I think we'll have at least 1 AI to the north & 1 to the south. There are 6 AI's in the game + us, so we'll have at least 2 on our continent, maybe 3. Perhaps 1 NW of us, and maybe 1 SE and 1 SW.

Early on I usually settle the best "core" sites first around the capital to get production up. Exceptions for luxuries & resources. I grab those before the AI does. In this game we want the best land so we can grow quickly, which is NE & NW so far. Further exploration may change our plans.

Also, what is our general strategy for city placement? Personally, I don't care for RCP. If we are going for a heavy military game then ICS may be an option.

We don't want a pure ICS, which is cities space 1 tile apart. I think 3 tiles between as a general rule works well on Monarch (CxxxCxxxC) in a standard map. Notice there are 3 tiles from Berlin to the red dot. If this was a Huge or Big map I'd go for 4 tiles between cities. Three tiles apart allows cities to grow to work 12 tiles. We won't build hospitals in this game if we go the miltary route, so size 12 is as big as we will get. I'm actually a big fan of pure RCP for less corruption. I rarely get it perfect since a luxury or a mountain or a lake screws it up. Once I learned it, I couln't "unlearn" it, so I just use it. Typically an ICS like build of CxxCxxC would be for an Always War game. Two tile distance allows you to "chain" units from city to city to reinforce. Check out the the T_McC of HNDY02 links in my signature for examples of 2 tile AW builds. Since we will not always be at war, 3 is better for us in this game.

One more question: how do I add images?

Here is how I do screen shots.
1. Hit the "Prt Scrn" key to place a screen shot on the PC's clipboard.
2. Open Microsoft Paint.
3. In MS paint, click "Edit" then "Paste". This should put the screen shot into paint.
3. Save the screenshot as a Jpeg. Name it something like "HANDY_SG002_BC3000_02.jpg"
4. At the very bottom of the forum page, click on "Upload File".
5. Browse, attach the file, and click upload to send the .jpg file to the server.
6. When the upload is complete you will see a box that says "upload Confirmation" Click on the link that says "Veiw New Upload Folder 7" This takes you to all the files loaded in chronological order. The file you just loaded will be at the top since it is in last loaded chronological order.
7. Right Click and select "Copy Shortcut".
8. In the forum select "Post a Reply" There are some Icons above the box where you type your reply. Click the box that says "IMG". Paste in the "shortcut" (the pictures URL address) in the box. Make sure the box does not say "http://" two times.
9. When you click "OK" the link should appear in the bottom of your post and look like this with out the quotation marks and extra "*" I put in.
"[*IMG]http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/uploadpic.JPG[/IMG*]"

coletite

May 15, 2004, 10:01 PM

Thanks Handy, I appreciate it.

I like the idea of spacing cities 3 tiles apart. If we want to go the RCP route, that's fine by me. What about temporary cities between our core cities to build units then disband when our core cities need the tiles? I've never done this, but I read about. My thoughts are that it would be a good strategy for crowded maps, but right now we need to expand outward and by the time we can afford to use settlers in that way the core cities will be needing the tiles. Just thinking out loud, sorry.

As for locations, the NE will probably not be settled by rivals for a long time. The south has too much jungle to be profitable right now. As you mentioned, the red dot has access to fresh water and that ivory will help keep us from needing MPs or the lux slider.

What about our over-all science strategy? Do we want to build up science revenue fairly quickly? Or should we focus on economy and purchase techs? Since we are scientific it would be a waste not to build libraries, etc. These would also give us our culture without needing many religous improvements. Maybe we should focus on researching techs the AI isn't likely to place a high priority on and using them to trade for the others until we get far enough ahead to research what we need. (This may be a given, so excuse me if I'm pointing out the obvious.)

Oddible

May 16, 2004, 01:40 AM

Checking in. Howdy all!

Looks like we got a lot of map in 20 turns. Excellent. Agree on the 2nd city, maybe third goes sw of the grain to our east? Bummer the spice is in the jungle. Looks like our growth is going to be nw, ne and s, with nw being the most promising. I'd even consider sending Johann out a few more tiles to see if we can spot a neighbor over there to the east.

I've never been a fan of armies so I almost always use leaders for hurry. Unless there isn't a wonder around to be made and it's the beginning of a war where we expect to get other leaders, I usually wait on armies.

Holding our own in science shouldn't be too difficult - love those cheap libraries! Barracks too. I'm not typically a warmonger but the last few games I've played have see some bloodlust. A huge fan of the early strike on the nearest neighbor (or the one that has our iron of course).

Good to be playing with y'all - looking forward to it!

Tinkez

May 16, 2004, 03:35 AM

I got the save. I'll play my turns this afternoon, first I'll just list here some thoughts what I'll do during my turns.

Berlin has granary coming up in 2 turns (3 shields short to finish in 1 turn :( )as the worker will finish the forest chop in 1 turns. After that Handy suggested to build barracks, but I think we should build a spear just in case as all of our warriors are far away from the city. If a barb appears, he might pillage the production of the undefended city. We can play gamble also, if you guys want that. Any suggestions?

when the defensive unit is built, I'll start a settler to being our factorys production :D When the settler is finished, the protective unit will escort him to new city place to ensure safe travels.

I'll report back after my turns, and check this thread before I start playing if you have any comments before that. "Los geht's" as the germans would say...

-Tinkez

handy900

May 16, 2004, 07:57 AM

Either way is ok with me. One option is to start barracks & switch to spear if a barb shows up. You may have to dump some shields if this happens.

Perhaps better is regular spears to escort the first few settlers, until we can build veteran spears in the 2nd and 3rd cities we will be founding. You may have to build spears after the first settler as escorts. Settler / spear / settler / spear rotation. We'll need another worker soon also.

Getting good land, building roads to our 2 luxuries, and making some trading contacts is more important than veteran spears at this point.

The more I think about it, the more I think it is a good plan to skip the barracks. Build spear / settler, send both to found a city. Build another spear / settler, send both, etc. If a barb arrives while Berlin is building a spear, you won't lose much production.
Good plan Tinkez :goodjob:

Once the additional cities can build spears, Berlin can then just build settlers.

At some point we can move the regular spears back to cities deep within our borders to act as military police. Later, we will want at least 2, maybe 3 veteran spears or swords in the cities on the edge of our border to fight the barbarian uprisings. I have seen 16 barb horsemen attack all at once in a massive rebellion. Checking F3 each turn can tip us off and allow us to move troops to fight the barbarioan hordes.

Welcome Oddible - you are up after Tinkez :wavey:

handy900

May 16, 2004, 08:09 AM

Checking in. Howdy all!

I'd even consider sending Johann out a few more tiles to see if we can spot a neighbor over there to the east.

Yes, it looks like there is a mountain SE of Johann next to the hill. He is so close to those he may as well climb them to see what turns up. If it is a mountain range he can mountain hop in a counterclockwise trend.

Tinkez

May 16, 2004, 08:47 AM

Here are my 10 turns:

IBT: Worker finishes forest chop, MM production in Berlin to complete granary in 1 turn.

2950BC(1): Worker begins irrigation on game tile. Hanz moves south to the hill and sees brown borders. That must be Catharine.

IBT: Berlin granary->barracks. Let's gamble.

2900BC(2): Johann finds Incence on a hill. Hanz moves to the mountain top hoping to establish contact without entering Russian land. He sees ivory linked up, but no town/units. MM Berlin to complete barracks in 4 turns and get +2 food. Wheel drops from 13 turns to 8 turns -> someone has it now.

IBT:Nothing.

2850BC(3):Catharine has Masonry. Can't trade anything with her.

IBT:Worker finishes irrigation.

2750BC(4):Nothing special (Catharine just got her second city somewhere.)

IBT:Berlin completes barracks -> spear.

2710BC(5):Explorers move forward, see nothing special.

IBT:

2670BC(6):Franz is exploring lot of mountains, I think the north of the continent is behind the mountains.

IBT:Worker finishes road, Berlin grows to size 4.

2630BC(7):MM Berlin back to normal, get spear in 1 turn at the cost of -1 food. Accept this. Wheel in 3 turns. Franz confirms north end of continent is found. Hanz is moving along russian borders and finds a hut next to them! Will pop it next turn... Hoping for a settler :hmm:

IBT: German safe is almost empty, but as the spear completes, I'm able to press the lux slider back and get wheel in 2 turns with +1gpt. Berlin begins work on settler.

2590BC(8):Hanz pops the hut and gets a map which reveals purple borders SW of russian borders! That must be Jean just next to Catharine! The Russian / French region looks very good, lots of floodplains with furs, wheat and cattle nearby... Needs an invasion after their cities are found there :D

IBT: Catharine gets CB.

2550BC(9):Nothing special.

IBT: Wheel complete. Start IW at 10% as it would be the same with 40%.

2510BC(10): Last turn. Now I could make some deals with the wheel, but I'd rather first see what Joan has to offer (Catharine offers 2gp for it :confused: ) Next player can squeeze a tech out of Joan :D

The stage is all yours. Our score is 79 (Russia has 92). Berlin is 2 turns to size 5 and 3 turns to settler.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Tinkez_SG002_BC2510_01.SAV

-Tinkez

Tinkez

May 16, 2004, 08:48 AM

Map:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Tinkez(team_Handy)_SG002_Map_2510BC.JPG

Tinkez

May 16, 2004, 10:19 AM

mad-bax

May 16, 2004, 12:14 PM

Tinkez: You need to upload the save using the Upload to sever link in my sig. You can bookmark it to make it easier. Your team mates can download it from here too.

handy900

May 16, 2004, 01:00 PM

Well I played my turns and built the barracks. That might have been a mistake, but it's done now :p

If we let Berlin to build the settler now, then it'll drop down to size three -> maybe better to build a second spear first and let Berlin grow to size six before building the settler. Then we'll have time to finish irrigation on the wheat and set up the factory correctly. This would also benefit the barracks building and we'd get second military police to Berlin for a while and could probably set lux rate to 0% for a while -> more money /sci. Would this be ok? :confused:

Well played Tinkrez :goodjob:. Barracks will be useful, it was a tossup and could be played either way.

Nice job MM Berlin for production. I agree about letting Berlin build spears while we irrigate the wheat. Then, when the wheat is irrigated we will have a 4 turn Settler Factory.

If Obbible switches Berlin to spear before he/she :confused: hits enter to end the turn, and MM's to work a forest tile, we can get a spear in 1 turn. Then the lux slider can go to zero. You could then build another spear in 3 turns working the forest while the worker irrigates the wheat which will take 4 turns. After the second spear, start building 4 turn settlers. We will have 3 spears in Berlin. Two of these can escort the first two settlers. By the time we build the third settler, we may need to build another in Berlin.

Watch F1 after Belin is down to 1 spear. It will riot if you don't use the lux slider. Get science up when you can so we will know where the iron is and can claim it for our own. :hammer:

Saves:
I think we are supposed to keep everything constant about the saves except for the year. So the saves should be
HANDY_SG002_BC4000_02
HANDY_SG002_BC3000_02
HANDY_SG002_BC2500_02
HANDY_SG002_BC2250_02 ... and so forth.
Then we switch to AD of course.
"Handy" represents the team name, not the player's name. I think. I'll email Mad-Bax to make sure. :confused:
I'm pretty sure the scoring upload system is looking for the files to be named in this specific way so it can compute each teams score and populate the charts appropriately.
EDIT I'm not so sure anymore. No less an authority than ainwood :worship: says
Just name it whatever you like. It gets renamed when its uploaded to the server using Alan's remarkable upload page.

Still for ease of sorting & finding it on the server, I suggest we use the naming convention outlined above.

Tinkez - here is the Link to upload your save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm.php) so our team score will post to the Scoreboard (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm_submission_list.php)

The Roster
Handy900
Tinkez
Oddible <- UP :D
Ted Jackson
coletite

Good luck Oddible :D

coletite

May 16, 2004, 02:31 PM

handy900

May 16, 2004, 06:06 PM

Should we switch from IW to Writing? The AI will research IW ASAP. We can always buy/trade for it. My fear is that, at this point, if we research what the AI is researching we will always be behind. If we get writing and hold onto it until we get Lit, we could have some trading power.

I think we'll be okay, and I like to know where the iron is. AI will grab it if we don't. If the team feels differently let me know. I just prefer not to have to use archers to pry the iron away from the AI. Wastes a lot of shields we could use to build swords. If the team feels differently, we can sitch no biggie. :)

Also, when it comes to my turn, if the is MM to be done for the settler factory, could somebody please explain what needs to be done. I haven't quite gotten the hang of it yet.

Will do. Basically just check to make sure you grow every 2 turns (5 extra food in the box for each of the 4 turns) and make sure you have the shield count to complete the settler in 4 turns (30 turns - usually 7+7+8+8=30) . You must work both irrigated tiles to get 5 extra food. Here is a link to the War Academy Settler Factory Article. (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3acad_deity_settlers.shtml) Also, I'll give you a turn by turn list of tiles to work before you pick up the game if you like. :D

Oddible

May 16, 2004, 10:16 PM

Got it. Probably be able to play it out tonight.
('He' would be the proper pronoun, btw).

Tinkez

May 17, 2004, 12:14 AM

Ok, I'll post the save again using the submission form today after work. Not much harm done as Oddible was able to play it, we're just a little behind on the scoreboard.

Oddible

May 17, 2004, 12:15 AM

.................................................. ......................

The Save - Handy_SG002_BC2110_01.sav (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Handy_SG002_BC2110_01.SAV)
.................................................. ......................

Pre
Switch Berlin to Spear (in 2)
MM Forest

IBT

Berlin: Spear->Spear(3)

2470BC - Turn 32 (1)

Worker finished road on BG. Ok, sent to irrigate grain.

As I look east to jungle as far as the eye can see I consider an executive decision on Johann to send him west. I really want to know what's to our immediate west as it looks better than to our east. Instead I send Franz on the march south to explore this for us. Johann continues on se.

Lux to 0%, +4pt. We have 7g and nearest change is 32 turns at +0. Waiting for some bank first.

IBT
-

2430BC - Turn 33 (2)

Oh tough one already on turn 2! Joan has Masonry and Alphabet, and Catherine has Masonry and Ceremonial Burial.

We got nothing on Cathy, we have Wheel and Pottery on Joan.
Cathy wants 4gpt for either and Joan wants both +4gpt for Alphabet.

I trade Joan Pottery and Wheel (which Cathy just got) for Masonry and 37g.
Cathy still wants 48g + 2gpt for CB. If Joan had more cash left over I might take it.

Lux back to 10% in anticipation of Berlin's growth.

IBT
-

2390BC - Turn 34 (3)

Exploring...
Johann enters upon a herd of Horses!

IBT

Russia plants Kiev nw of St. Petersburg.
Berlin: Spear->Settler(4)

2350BC - Turn 35 (4)

Exploring...
Hanz reaches the southern coast!

IBT
-

2310BC - Turn 36 (5)

Exploring...

IBT
-

2270BC - Turn 37 (6)

Hanz meets an English conscript warrior. Trades Wheel and 4g for Alphabet. She doesn't have Masonry yet but only 14g.

Irrigation finished, MM for growth in 1. Settler still in 2.

IBT
-

2230BC - Turn 38 (7)

Set worker to mine BG.
Exploring...

Looks like this norther peninsula is all ours if we can get to it, but we'd better get on those spices quick-like.

Lux to 20%.

IBT

Berlin: Settler->Settler

2190BC - Turn 39 (8)

Lux back to 0%

IBT
-

2150BC - Turn 40 (9)

Jeesh, I got Hanz caught behind the French along the coast, sorry bout that. Gonna keep going and hope there's a way out.

Buy CB from Cathy for 31g.

Russia has Horseback and France has Ironworking, both have Mysticism. Hmm. Too late to switch to Writing.

IBT

Berlin grows.

2110BC - Turn 41 (10)

Lux to 10%.

Parting thoughts

IronWorking in 30. Not my usual choice. One suggestion would be that we need to get a road to and a settler on those horses to the south pronto. As we don't seem to have much of a challenge for the north right now our growth should be balanced between strong inner ring cities and securing southern resources (spices first, then horses, then incense unless Johan finds the English getting close over there). Perhaps Franz will find some horses to the north. Just my 2C.

Firaxis score: 85
Jason score: 65

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Handy_SG002_2110BC.jpg

Oddible

May 17, 2004, 12:20 AM

Whoa, did I blow it somehow? It says turn 41 for us now on the score page??? Are we off a turn?

Oddible

May 17, 2004, 12:32 AM

Nope, Tinkez skipped reporting 2800 so the numbering is off. Sorry, shoulda caught that. Good thing is that the SGOTM upload system definitely catches it. Hey, Ted, it would be great if you could take just nine turns to put us even with the rest.

Also, I think it would be a good idea to change from reporting 1-10 to the actual game turn. We're on Turn 41 so Ted's first move would be:

2070BC - Turn 42 ...
2030BC - Turn 43

etc.

You always end on a 0.

mad-bax

May 17, 2004, 01:00 AM

Just to back up what ainwood says...

You can upload your saves throught the upload link in my sig.
You can download saves through the download link in my sig.
It is in fact not necessary to provide a link in the game thread - though you can of course.

coletite

May 17, 2004, 01:11 AM

We need to uncover as much of that NW fog as possible ASAP. If there is no competition in that area, then we should focus on blocking Russian expansion. It looks like they are likely to expand to the east of Kiev as the north is mountainous. The land north of Berlin is the best so far, but if teh English aren't to the NW, then we shoudl have plenty of time to settle there. Maybe every third settler can go north.

Another option- it looks like Russia has blocked France, so I'd expect to see an early war between them. We can capitalize on that by joining France and taking some Russian city/sites along our border. This way we can keep the focus on expanding north. In this case we need our third city to start producing units. My vote is for warriors then do a mass upgrade to swords when we have iron hooked up. With a dozen swords, we could end up sharing a border woith France!

Either way, I think we need to establish a worker factory soon. It looks like there are flood plains to the NW. Maybe make the second city a unit city and the third a worker factory.

At this point I say we trade for IW (both France and Russia have it so it won't be monopoly priced) and switch research to writing. We'll lose the beakers, but waiting 30 turns for IW won't get us the iron before Russia.

Well played, Oddible!

Tinkez

May 17, 2004, 04:14 AM

I give my vote also for buying the IW from the French or the Russian. Then we can gamble for Writing and Lit. Lit we should get, but one other option is to aim straigth away for Mathematics, as AI tends to get that quite late also.

Aggressive settling sounds better, so head with the borders due south and towards Russia. Then after we have worker factory, set a couple of workers to build a road towards Catharine to allow faster transportation of troops later on. First we must check west of Berlin, of course.

The second city should build barracks and start spilling out vet warriors ready for upgrade (Where's that iron???).

Our near future plan looks nice, just try to get the tech pace going on again. I started the IW, as at that point we did not have alphabet to allow writing research and same goes with mysticsm->polytheism route and I did not want to research the starting techs. I should have pointed that out in my turn log.

I also apologize for losing count on my turns, that was mistake I did not see. It was sunday and I was in cruise control :crazyeye:

-Tinkez

handy900

May 17, 2004, 07:09 AM

Whoa, did I blow it somehow? It says turn 41 for us now on the score page??? Are we off a turn?

No big deal on the turns, just play 9 next round.

Play Order (unless we switch Tinkez & Oddible)
1. Handy
2. Tinkez
3. Oddible
4. Ted <- UP
5. Coletite

I sent Ted a PM, but he has not picked it up yet :( . If we don't hear from him in 24 hours, we'll just skip him this round.

I give my vote also for buying the IW from the French or the Russian. Then we can gamble for Writing and Lit. Lit we should get, but one other option is to aim straigth away for Mathematics, as AI tends to get that quite late also.

Agree.

I'm @ work and cannot post a dot map for cities until later. If anyone wants to have a go at a dot map, go ahead. :D

We'll need to priortizie to get the the spices, horses and the core cities settled. Lots of jungle to chop. Once we start pumping out settlers our ecomomy (and score) will soar. I usually don't play for score (play lots of AW games), so this is a new challenge for me. :D

Tinkez - I uploaded the save after your turns for you. :)

Tinkez

May 17, 2004, 07:45 AM

Tinkez - I uploaded the save after your turns for you. :)

Thanks a lot!

TedJackson

May 17, 2004, 08:49 AM

Hi guys,

I'll review progress & play this evening.

Ted

mad-bax

May 17, 2004, 09:42 AM

Can I place another person on this team please? Since the game has started it is entirely up to you if you accept another player or not. No pressure.

Oddible

May 17, 2004, 11:45 AM

Are they a solid Sid-level player with a penchant for milking high scores? Sure!

(Just kidding, fine by me.)

coletite

May 17, 2004, 01:16 PM

One thing to keep in mind- if we block Russian expansion, they are likely to declare war on us. We need to keep our army "strong compared to theirs." That means lots of warriors.

Going the mathmatics route sounds good to me.

What government do we want to go for? Sounds like we are going to be a t war a lot, so Monarchy might be the best bet.

MB- another player is OK with me.

handy900

May 17, 2004, 03:19 PM

Can I place another person on this team please? Since the game has started it is entirely up to you if you accept another player or not. No pressure.

It's okay by me. :D

The Roster
Handy900
Tinkez
Oddible
Ted Jackson <- UP Hi Ted! :wavey:
coletite
maharaja <- welcome to the team :wavey: Let us know what level you are & we will slot you accordingly. If you have beaten Emperor, you can follow coletite, otherwise I'll slot you in after me & before Tinkez.

mad-bax

May 17, 2004, 04:27 PM

Thanks guys. I have added maharaja to your roster.

handy900

May 17, 2004, 04:34 PM

Thanks guys. I have added maharaja to your roster.

Great!

Mad-Bax - Aren't you supposed to be on Holiday?

TedJackson

May 18, 2004, 04:51 AM

SGM02-2110BC

Pre-flight checks...
Berlin needs MM for +5fpt

The IW deal isn't on yet as we only have 31gp & 1gpt for trade. Both France & Russia consider such an offer insulting. I leave research on IW until we can make the deal.

1 - 2070BC
Leipzig founded - revealing Floodplains NW
Warriors explore
The best deal I can get for IW is 24gp +4gpt from France.
Sell CB to England for 14gp
Buy IW from France for 42gp + 3gpt
Iron shows up to the North and East of Berlin
Research Writing @10%

2 - 2030BC
Berlin grows and needs MM for +5fpt
Lux 20%
Warriors explore

IBT
Berlin Settler - Settler

3 - 1990BC
MM Berlin for +5fpt
Lux 0%
Settler heads South - best of a bad bunch. Chosen mainly to prevent Russia from claiming the site
Worker mine - heads for grassland 2SW of Berlin (we need more shields)
Warriors explore

4 - 1950BC
MM Berlin for +5fpt
Lux 10%
Warriors explore

5 - 1910
Worker mine
Warriors explore
Settler arrives on site
France has discovered Writing :(
Buy Mysticism from France for Contact with English + 4gp
Switch research to Poly - aiming to be first to Monarchy

IBT
France starts Oracle

6 - 1870BC
Hamburg founded (on Spices)
MM Berlin for +5fpt
Lux 20%
Warriors explore

7 - 1830BC
We're 2 shields short of a Settler - we need to mine those last 2 grasslands at Berlin ASAP
Warriors explore

IBT
Berlin Settler - Worker (needed until grassland is mined to prevent Berlin reaching size 7)

8 - 1790BC
MM Berlin for +5fpt
Lux 10%
Settler heads East
Warriors explore

9 - 1750BC
Settler E
Warriors explore

Notes
Berlin needs MM every time it grows to stay at +5fpt, but we're still short on shields for a 4 turn Settler Factory. Once the worker completes the mine then we should be OK.

We desperately need more workers. I suggest that each new settlement produces a Warrior then a Worker (circumstances allowing) as the initial builds.

In a similar vein we are short of military so we are unable to provide escorts for Settlers for the forseeable future. I don't quite understand why we have a barracks in Berlin as Berlin was always going to be a Settler Factory without scope for producing military until the end of the expansion phase.

The Settler (to the East of Berlin) has a choice of moving 1E or 1NE before founding. I slightly favour 1E as it allows more scope for settling the Floodplains to the North later.

Northeast Territory
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54974&stc=1
SGM02-Handy-1750BC-NE.jpg

Northwest Territory
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54975&stc=1
SGM02-Handy-1750BC-NW.jpg

Save
Submitted save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Handy_SG002_BC1750_01.SAV)

Our score is 98 at the end of 1750BC and I stopped there to even up the dates.

Ted

mad-bax

May 18, 2004, 05:00 AM

Aah - I've known you all this time as Ted Jackson, wheras really you are TedJackson. :D

Spelled your name incorrectly in the database. I've fixed it now. I think Alan is going to get pretty teed off with my typing incompetence soon. :help:

You can resubmit the save or leave it to me Ted. I'd rather you did it just to make absolutely sure it works.

Sorry.

Karasu

May 18, 2004, 05:01 AM

I couldn't get the submission form to work for me so could somebody give me a clue :)

EDIT: Mad, have you got ESP powers? Next time I expect you to post before someone comes up with troubles with the submission page... ;)

Anyway, I was right about the problem :D

TedJackson

May 18, 2004, 05:07 AM

Karasu

May 18, 2004, 05:11 AM

p.s. Good to see you're on the ball too, Karasu :)

Yes, and I was glad to see you back in the forum :)

And, You know -I had to find a way to kill time now that we made peace with the Incas... ;)

handy900

May 18, 2004, 07:45 AM

Play Order edit 5-18-04
1. Handy
2. Tinkez
3. Oddible
4. Ted <- Just played.
5. Coletite <- UP

maharaja <-Needs to check in so we can slot him somewhere in the order. I sent him a PM.

Hi Ted - barracks were my bad. We wanted to build something while Berlin's Pop grew. Tinkez suggested military units - I suggested barracks. After I thought about it I realized the spears would have been better - but it was too late. :cry: I'm playing too much AWE and have developed bad habits for a regular game. :crazyeye:

Coletite I can look at the save when I get home to give you some pointers if you like. Most important is to mine the last bonus grass near Berlin so we can get settlers in 4 turns. As Ted said, every time a settler pops, you will want to MM Berlin each turn to make sure it is working the two irrigated tiles and the BG to produce 5 extra food each turn. The city govenor will try to work the wrong tiles. If you like, I'll give you a turn by turn list of tiles to work, or someone else who has access to the save can do it.

coletite

May 18, 2004, 12:41 PM

Oddible

May 18, 2004, 02:58 PM

I've uploaded a couple numbered JPEGs that we can use to chat about city placement, etc.

Nice trading Ted!

Workers - too bad for the raging barbs, we'll hafta build military before a worker in all new cities? Maybe we can get away with a worker first in some instances. Would be nice to get that ivory hooked up.

Iron - got no favors on resource placement, these locations aren't exactly great. Looks like the NE iron may offer more opportunities initially. Still can't see the far west of that norther peninsula tho. Nice we've got a horse to the north tho.

coletite

May 18, 2004, 03:20 PM

I like the hill NE of green 4 next to the mountain. It is on a river (you can barely see it) and it will allow us to put a city on the forest by the flood plains.

handy900

May 18, 2004, 06:36 PM

Great. I'm itchin' to play and would like to start in about an hour. If you can get me a turn-by-turn MM list, that would be great, although after Ted's post, I think I got it.

Handy there isn't another bonus grass tile. The two are already mined. The one that is beign worked now is a regular grass. Not sure if this makes a difference. Don't we need an average of 8 shields per turn? At size 6, after the mine is built we will have 7 shields. Like I said, I haven't yet gotten the hang of factories, so I'll trust the team. Just tell me what to do.

My bad - I was looking at a picture at work & thought it was a BG. We can't build settlers in 4 turns until we clear another forest to uncover a BG. The best we can do is build them in 5 turns with 5 extra food or 4 turns with 4 extra food. Watch F1 since you will need to raise the lux when Berlin grows to size 5.

handy900

May 18, 2004, 06:59 PM

The next 2 cities.

The yellow dot would capture the wheat, has some forest for chopping some culture, and will be low in corruption. It also pulls in 2 BG after expansion. Due S of wheat is ok with me also.

The red dot is on the river and pulls in the iron. No need for aqueduct, but will require lots of jungle chopping to be of any use. This will be a very unproductive city, and by no means is a priority to settle in the next 10 turns.

All of the Iron cities are kinda weak.

Any thoughts?

BTW - good Luck coletite! :goodjob:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HANDY_SG002_BC1750_pic.JPG

coletite

May 18, 2004, 07:55 PM

You're right about the red site, however it all depends on when we want iron. I don't see a rush for it in the next 10 turns, so my vote would be for the blue site. As far as all the jungle goes- I'd just as soon let the Russians take it then take their cities when we have the workers to clear the jungle. Of course, taking cities is much more difficult then founding them.

At any rate, the land to the NE is good and we need to take it before the Russians do.

Is there any way to make an educated guess as to which forest will yield a BG?

Should the next city (blue dot) start cranking out workers or do we want it to do settlers until Berlin gets rollin'? (I know it won't be a factory.)

handy900

May 18, 2004, 09:39 PM

Is there any way to make an educated guess as to which forest will yield a BG?
Not that I know of. Would be nice to know though! :D

Should the next city (blue dot) start cranking out workers or do we want it to do settlers until Berlin gets rollin'? (I know it won't be a factory.)

If playing solo, I'd build a warrior, then some workers. The team may have better ideas, so speak up. Berlin is still kicking settlers every 5 turns, which is still not too bad. We need some workers though. Berlin can build a warrior or spear escort now & again if it has to.

coletite

May 18, 2004, 09:43 PM

I'm getting nervous about barbs. So I think warrior then worker. I'm assuming we fortify the warrior since he won't do much good against barbs outside the city.

coletite

May 19, 2004, 02:00 AM

Pre Flight Check

Everything looks good… ready to hit enter!

IBT

Barbarians to the west are on the move
Berlin workerworker (until we get shield production up, we need to keep from reaching size 7, right?)

1725 BC (1)

Moved new worker to forest NE to try to find that BG
Move Franz W
Move settler N
Move Johan N
Hans sees French settler heading west.
Hans moves S

IBT

Franz defeats barbarian
Leipzig warrior  worker

1700 BC (2)

Dietrich (Leipzig warrior) moves S (headed to mountains just W of Berlin to watch for barbs)
Worker begins chopping forest NE of Berlin
Worker SW of Berlin roads
Founded Konigsberg. Crap!! Barb just outside borders to NE.
Konigsberg begins warrior
Franz moves S
Johann moves N- finds spice
Hans moves S- finds fur

IBT

Franz beats two barbs- promotes to Vet
Berlin worker  settler (I figure we need to get some settlers going- it could be a long time till we get that BG)
MM Berlin to grow in 2, build in 5

1675 BC (3)

New worker to wheat to connect Leipzig and hook up ivory
Dietrich S
Franz S (want to bait second barb in camp to attack)
Johann N
Hans S
Catharine and Joan have math

IBT

Franz beats barb (but not the second one in camp)
Camp barb moves NE
Barb outs Konig moves E!!

1650 BC (4)

Franz wipes out barb camp loosing 1 hp
Diet. S
Worker on wheat roads
Johann N- sees GH to N
Hans SW

IBT

Nothin’ much

1625 BC (5)

Lux up to 20% to keep Berlin from rioting
Franz SW
Worker SW of Berlin moves NE to clear forest.
Diet. N- Barb is heading toward Leip. Want to intercept in case it moves toward worker.
Johann pops hut- single barb
Hans W

IBT

Barb outside Konig has moved off our radar! (Luck!)
Barb moves towad Diet.

1600 BC (6)

Worker SW of Berlin begins to clear
Franz W- finds some nice land W of mountains
Johann beats barb (why didn’t it attack IBT?) and gets promotion to vet
Hans NW

IBT

English warrior appears S between Konigs and Berlin
Berlin settler  settler
MM Berlin to grow in 1 with no wasted food and produce in 4
Leibzig worker  worker
Hamburg warrior  worker

1575 BC (7)

Fort warrior in Hamburg (there are barbs nearby)
Note: we are strong compared to Russia (most important) and average to France and England.
Sending settler SW of Hamburg to river near russian border. Looks like good land and it will put the squeeze on Catharine- assuming we beat her to it.
Worker NW of Berlin moves toward Leipzig
Worker in Leipzig moves NE to begin irrigation
Franz SW
Jo W
Hans N
Got Writing from Joan for 2gpt and 90 gp (best deal, Russian wanted more)
Couldn’t get anyting out of England (and they’re #1!)
Lux to 0

IBT

English warrior moves E
Barb moves E toward Berlin

1550 BC (8)

Franz discovers little more of English border
Berlin will grow in 3, produce set in 3
Lux to 10%

IBT

Barb attacks Dietrich- we win

1525 BC (9)

Move Dietrich S to join settler
Elizabeth got writing

IBT

Nothin’

1500 BC (10)

Berlin is about to produce a settler and grow to six. I think I did OK with the MM
Settler is headed SW (see map)

Our score is 120

I hope I did OK!

coletite

May 19, 2004, 02:12 AM

Our rock:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/world.jpg

Here's where I was sending the settler:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/site1.jpg

TedJackson

May 19, 2004, 04:51 AM

Just to clarify how I think we should be able to run a 4 turn Settler Factory without another BG.

Here's Berlin at pop 5, The Red numbers indicate the tiles each citizen should work. I've indicated the 2 grassland tiles as A & B
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/TJ-SGM02-Berlin.jpg

At pop 5 with "A" mined we make +5fpt & 7spt giving a total of 14 shields in the box for pop 5.
At pop 6 with "A" mined and our 6th citizen working "B" we still make +5fpt & 7spt giving a total of 28 shields in the box for pop 6.
When we hit pop 7 we should get 2 extra shields (from a forest tile) to take us to 30 shields for the Settler and pop will drop back to 5.

If we want to be absolutely certain of hitting the shield total then we need only mine B after A. This would give us 8spt for pop 6 (16 in total) + the 14 shields from pop 5 to reach the magic 30 shields.

I hope this helps.

Ted

handy900

May 19, 2004, 07:30 AM

At pop 5 with "A" mined we make +5fpt & 7spt giving a total of 14 shields in the box for pop 5.
At pop 6 with "A" mined and our 6th citizen working "B" we still make +5fpt & 7spt giving a total of 28 shields in the box for pop 6.
When we hit pop 7 we should get 2 extra shields (from a forest tile) to take us to 30 shields for the Settler and pop will drop back to 5.

Just so I understand how this works, on the IBT between turn 4 & 5, we get the growth first - before production. This growth to size 7 allows citizen #7 to work a forest tile for the 2 shields, giving us 9 shields total on turn 4 (7+7+7+9=30).
Growth before Production is how we get a 4 turn settler. Correct?
Thanks for the lesson Ted. :worship:

I'll pull up the save when I get home. If that settler is unescorted we'll need to hook him up with the nearby yellow lined warrior in the picture.

Playing for score
This playing for score is a new concept to me, and perhaps we have not focused enough & that is why we are a little behind on the scoreboard.

Score is a function of tiles controlled & happy people. If we build cities 4 tiles apart CxxxxC then we’ll have lots of tiles in each city’s 21 radius that we will never work (since we won’t build hospitals). Also the CxxxxC lets each city only control 9 tiles until culture grows. So, 2 cities built CxxxxC control 18 tiles for score purposes until culture grows. If we build 3 tiles apart, CxxxC then the contiguous row of 3 tiles between cities will fill in automatically – allowing 2 parallel cities to control 21 tiles. This boosts the score a little, and over time alot.

If you’ve checked my signature you’ll see I play almost exclusively AW SG’s where we could care less about score – and always build cities 2 tiles apart for troop movement purposes, so city placement for score is not something I’ve ever focused on. If we place purely for score, we may wind up placing cities where they are not on a river. I’d be reluctant to do this in the “core”, but in 2nd ring cities, perhaps it makes sense. We should have a much larger tile count this way.
Something to consider.

Any comments are welcome – you won’t hurt my feelings. I want to see if we can bump our score a little without hurting our chances at a fast victory.

Play Order
1. Handy <-UP
2. Tinkez
3. Oddible
4. Ted
5. Coletite
maharaja <-Needs to check in so we can slot him. PM has been sent.

TedJackson

May 19, 2004, 08:33 AM

Just so I understand how this works, on the IBT between turn 4 & 5, we get the growth first - before production. This growth to size 7 allows citizen #7 to work a forest tile for the 2 shields, giving us 9 shields total on turn 4 (7+7+7+9=30).
Growth before Production is how we get a 4 turn settler. Correct?
Thanks for the lesson Ted. :worship:I should have posted this info at the end of my turn but I was a bit rushed :(

Playing for score
This playing for score is a new concept to me, and perhaps we have not focused enough & that is why we are a little behind on the scoreboard.

Score is a function of tiles controlled & happy people. If we build cities 4 tiles apart CxxxxC then we’ll have lots of tiles in each city’s 21 radius that we will never work (since we won’t build hospitals). Also the CxxxxC lets each city only control 9 tiles until culture grows. So, 2 cities built CxxxxC control 18 tiles for score purposes until culture grows. If we build 3 tiles apart, CxxxC then the contiguous row of 3 tiles between cities will fill in automatically – allowing 2 parallel cities to control 21 tiles. This boosts the score a little, and over time alot. I guess a lot depends on whether we can achieve domination by conquering our start continent. From the minimap that would appear to be a viable option so most of our territory will come from captures :)

We seem to have drifted a little in this early phase. I suspect that the other teams got their Settler Factory turning over a littler earlier than we did and are now reaping the benefit.

In some ways RCP (Ring City Placement) might be our best way to go. Not for the corruption benefit but rather for the (less) time taken for our settlers to reach their targets. The 4/4.5 ring is particularly useful here as it is quickly populated and is tight enough for military support to reach any site in 1 or 2 turns.

Our second ring should probably be in the 8/8.5/9 region for similar reasons, but we should be much readier to ignore strict RCP for sites that have resources or fresh water.

Hopefully by the time we've established a second ring we'll already be demanding territory from Russia (with menaces :)) so we can absorb their holdings without worrying too much.

Just my usual (random) thoughts :)

Ted

coletite

May 19, 2004, 01:52 PM

You know, I remember now about getting shields on the IBT. I didn't really understancd it then, but I do now. Sorry about not catching that sooner.

Dietrich is heading south to join up with the unescorted settler.

handy900

May 19, 2004, 06:24 PM

I got it.

AlanH's SGOTM scoreboard & download system rocks. :)

coletite

May 19, 2004, 06:47 PM

Isn't it too late for RCP? None of the three non-capitol cities are the same distance from the capitol.

handy900

May 19, 2004, 09:23 PM

Pre turn
coletiteYou did fine. :D A couple of things to watch for:
Berlin was pulling only 4 food, so when the settler pops next turn we will fall to pop 4. So, check Berlin every turn to make sure you have 5 extra food in Berlin. This way we will not ever drop to pop 4.
We should have been building a road to ivory, not irrigating below it.

Switch Leipzig to barracks. We can build military out of here and workers out of Konigsburg & future cities. We need someplace to supply escorts to Berlin’s Settlers.

IBT
Berlin – settler – warrior (the chop will finish him in 1

Turn 1 1475
Berlin will build a warrior in (chop coming in) and grow in 2. So it will still be off the 4-turn setter rotation. Scratch that. I’ll go for a 2-turn spear with the chop. Then the 4-turn settler rotation Ted described.
Settler starts towards river & flood plains N of the Ivory. That city has a lot of food, and should grow quickly once we irrigate. Worker production facility.
The next settler can go to the lake to the East of Berlin, which is a location that will need improvements before it can be a decent city. It can work the cow in the meantime.
Our best chance at horses is going to be way up north, or take them from Russia down south. Russia will settle Southern horses before we do. We do need to get that IRON S of Berlin on the 10 turns after mine.
Russia & France want 2gpt & 59 gold for HBR. I’ll wait.

IBT
2 barbs near Leipzig, some near Konisburg
Russia is building the Pyramids.
Hamburg -> worker -> barracks
Konigsberg -> warrior – Worker

Turn 2 1450
Worker stuff. – road to ivory begun.
Road to Spices begins next turn.
F1 looks good. Berlin has 5 food. :D

IBT
Berlin -> spear – settler (I have to MM to get 5 extra food. You’ll need to check Berlin each turn.)
English warrior dies attacking barb for us.
Leipzig & Konigsberg are going to have barb problems soon. The barbs now are riding horses.

Turn 3 1425
Turn luxury up so I can send a spear to cover the workers near the Ivory. It’s too easy for a barb horse to sneak up on them. May have to build another warrior in Berlin since we have no settler escorts.
Johann is returning home to help with barbs
Konigsberg is defended by a warrior, and will be attacked by a horse net turn. May as well give the gold to the French instead of the barbs.
Trade 1 gpt +60 gold to Joan for HBR

Turn 4 1400
Found Frankfurt -> worker on a river, but with a little buffer between Cathy & us.
Hanz spots barb camp
Pop Spear in Konigsberg. Barbs are swarming & would kill the worker anyway if I completed him.
F1 looks good.

IBT Konigsberg -> spear – worker

Turn 5 1375
England is bogged down in the Jungle.
F1 check – Berlin has grown, and needs to be MM’d to have 5 food.
It is size 6. Grows in 2 settler in 2.
Lux can stay at 20% since the Ivory road is completed. Spice road is a few turns away.
Johann can go to Berlin for MP duty. There is a lone spear in Berlin.
AI update – strong versus Russia; Average to France; Average to England.
Military advisor is warning of barbs near Konigsberg.
Cathy is down to 5gpt & 39g for Math.
Joan has mapmaking but won’t trade. She want’s our WP + 1 gpt + 30g for Math. No thanks.

IBT
Hanz & Johann kill barbs on defense. Hanz promotes.

Turn 6 1350
Munich founded -> worker
Konigsberg switched to barracks.
Kill barb camp for 25 gold. Hanz is elite.

IBT
Berlin – settler – warrior (we are out of escorts, and can get warriors in 1 turn at zero growth)
Lux goes to 10% for 2 turns.

Turn 7 1325
Steal Berlin’s spear for the settler escort.
Berlin builds a warrior on the IBT. Luxury tax can remain @ 10%

IBT
Johann goes elite on defense versus barb.
Berlin – warrior – settler
4 more turns to spices.
Turn 8 1300
:sleep:

IBT
England starts Pyramids

Turn 9 1275
:sleep:

IBT
Russia demands 24 gold. I give it. Not yet Cathy, your time will come.
Leipzig -> barracks – veteran warrior :) (get one every 5 turns)

Turn 10 1250
Settler can found by the lake next turn. Thank goodness the city is on a hill, there are barbs everywhere.
Berlin grows MM to get 5 food.
Luxury drops to 10% since Johann is now in Berlin to give us 2 MPs.

Notes:
* Watch out for barb horsemen. We cannot afford to lose any workers to these guys. If you have to stack up workers like I’ve done in the north and guard them, do it. If any worker is close to our borders they are in danger.
* We have a lot of GPT, we could bump luxury if we want to boost our score. Like I said, I’ve never played for “score” before. When we get incense & spices (2 turns) happiness will improve a lot.
* There are two workers building a road on forest between Berlin & Hanburg that finishes in 1 more turn. They could then chop the rest of Hamburg’s barracks. This would also help Hamburg’s food situation.
* The save has Konigsberg on a barracks. You may want to switch to worker, and use him to chop a barracks. Be careful though, and cover him with a warrior. There are loads of barb horsemen over there. This may be too risky.
* Best solution to the barb uprising that is coming is to keep pushing our borders back.
* I did not trade for math, but you may want to trade for math before you hit enter. You can get it for 2gpt and 96 gold from Cathy. Better than losing gold to the barbs, and it will keep her from declaring war while we are expanding. We already have trades going with Joan.
* * Joan has horses hooked up, and iron near her borders. Cathy has no iron hooked up and None visible to a CRTL+SHIFT+M inspection. Let’s settle next to grab the IRON S of Berlin before Cathy does. Then get the Incense Then we can settle some more in the north.
* We are 1 city ahead of Joan, 1 behind Cathy and Elizabeth. We settle 1 next turn so we will tie England & Russia.
Frankfurt Maybe switch to warrior. No way to safely get the worker out of there. The worker being built in Munich can join the northern stack.
Leipzig Please switch to warrior. I thought I picked that. :confused:
OK last Edit :lol: Remember - forest chop gets you 10 shileds only if the forest in the 21 tile radius of a city (don't need cultural city border expansion to get the 10 shield bonus). Jungle chops get no shields, save those for the slaves.
* Another Edit :rolleyes: Check to make sure we'll get the iron S of Berlin before you settle. Not sure we get auto-fill for cities that far apart.

Good Luck
Score is 151 at 1250 BC.

Pictures with settle ideas in next post.

Play Order
1. Handy
2. Tinkez <- UP :D
3. Oddible
4. Ted
5. Coletite
maharaja <-Needs to check in so we can slot him. PM has been sent.

>> SAVE 1250 BC << (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Handy_SG002_BC1250_01.SAV)

handy900

May 19, 2004, 09:27 PM

2 screenshots Cathy is too close to the Iron S of Berlin. We need to grab it for quickly for possible denial (in case she has no other sources.) We could also use some Iron. :lol:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HANDY_SG002_BC1250_pic2.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HANDY_SG002_BC1250_pic.JPG

coletite

May 19, 2004, 10:55 PM

Handy, well done. I think I've learned a few things and should be better off on my next turns.

Those two sites look great. I don't think you'll get a fill between the red dot and circle, however, since neither will produce any culture. Will the AI settle in there? I can't remember where they will and will not settle. Maybe we should get a temple in there (a library would be best, but we don't have lit..) to fill in. Just one city should do it. But it may not be that big a deal.

Is Joan looking pretty crowded? Sounds like Cathy's getting ansty since she demanded tribute). Do we need to start thinking about joining a war with Joan against Cath should one break out? If we get iron hooked up, we can upgrade to enough swords to hold our own if Joan is attacking as well. I wouldn't want to take the emphasis off settler production. But Leipzig could probably keep rolling out warriors. We would also want to start thinking about a road network to Russian border. (I know this probably won't come up right away, but might as well start discussing it.)

On the topic of settling. England is likely going to begn expanding N, right? After we get the red dot and circle sites founded, we should go ahead and make a mad dash for the northern territory. It is the best land that is near our capitol.

Note: I hope it goes without saying, but I'm not trying to pass myself off as an expert or anything. I'm just relaying what's on my mind and hope I come up with an occaisonal good idea. I've already learned a lot on this game.

Oh, and how long do we have to play this? Is it a month or does "SGOTM" just refer to a SG played on a GOTM map?

Tinkez

May 20, 2004, 06:16 AM

Hi guys!

I just returned back from a three day work-related trip. Seems that I'm up next. I'll catch up what has happened and play my turns later in the evening.

-Tinkez

Tinkez

May 20, 2004, 02:58 PM

Pre checks:

Trade territory maps with Joan and get 5gp. Trade math with Cathy for 94gp+2gpt. Hit enter.

IBT: Barbs don't attack, more appear.

1225BC(71):Found Heidelburg next to the lake. The place is a bit far from other cities, but after growth it'll cover a nice area.
Franz W, Hanz E,

IBT: Barbs move, none attacks :confused: Berlin settler->settler.

1200BC(72): Hanz E, Franz S, Settler with warrior escort heads towards incence. Northern 2*worker+spear move N to connect Munich and to allow faster movement to north when settling(no river movement penalty).

IBT: English found town SW of us, on the spot where Cathy was heading. Joan also founds new town.

1175BC(73):Hanz E, Franz S and sees english iron hill.

IBT: Barb attacks Cathy settler+warrior and redlines that warrior but dies. Barb horseman moves next to Hamburg where is only warrior as defence :(
Frankfurt builds worker, I'll gamble with him and build some improvements as the neighbours are so near -> probably less barbs.

1150BC(74):Hanz E, Franz NW. Frankfurt worker S. MM Berlin.

IBT:Barb horseman comes to threaten worker, have to pull him out of work as only defence would be warrior. Hamburg barracks->spear.

1125BC(75): Take Konigsberg warrior out for next settler escort. Our spear factory is still way too slow! Franz NW, Hanz E. Hamburg worker S. Can't make trades as Joan is still only one with map making. Barbs are threatening many cities and we have gold -> I'll establish embassies: English 38gp (pyramids in 66 turns!!).

IBT: Munich worker->barracks, Berlin settler->spear. Barb horse fortifies on mountain next to Hamburg. They do not want to attack?

1100BC(76):MM Berlin to produce 10 shields, forest chop will finish in 1 turn-> 1 turn spear. Hanz S, Franz NW. Settler begins journey to get iron E of Berlin; he meets up with escort on mountain top. Hannover founded on the incence.

IBT: Berlin spear -> settler. Worker finishes forest chop and reveals BG :D Cathy gets construction -> most likely trades that with Joan, as they both have Construction & MM. Elizabeth has MM too.

1075BC(77):Time for trading: Trade MM with Elisabeth to Math+HBR+1gp. Buy English territory map for 11gp. Trade territory maps with Cathy. Trade World maps with Joan and get 7gp. Sell World map to Elizabeth and get WM+37gp. End up getting map making, world map of the continent and 29gp. That was the best I could squeeze out of them. It's a big continent...

IBT: Leipzig spear -> spear. Nothing special.

1050BC(78):Establish embassy to Russia to see how long their Pyramids will take: 59turns! They will not build them for us in time...

IBT: Barb horse attacks Frankfurt, warrior wins! France builds Oracle and begins pyramids.

1025BC(79): Settler arrives on the spot. Nothing else.

IBT: Barbs attack, but we win them all :cool:

1000BC(80):Bremen founded. Franz founds barb camp and heals up. Workers up north need an other escort as 3 is not a good stack for irrigation.

Remarks: Start expanding to north, best territory is there. Build some military (veteran warriors), hook up the iron and get going. There is a barb horseman near Berlin, elite warrior (Johann) can attack him before he pillages. Leipzig could build a temple to expand territory and get second ivory for us. We can soon trade with Cathy as road finishes (do we want to? Prefer war!) Heidelburg is about to build warrior, change him to worker or something else? Polytheism is 6 turns away, looks ok for us.

That's it. Have fun!

-Tinkez

Tinkez

May 20, 2004, 03:01 PM

Oh, BTW:

The link:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Handy_SG002_BC1000_01.SAV

Our score is 190. I don't have now time for map editing and uploading, sorry :(

maharaja

May 20, 2004, 03:18 PM

Hi Everyone, This really sounds like we are going to have fun. First time I am ever playing a game like this.

I am the rookie for this game. I would like to be last after Coletite. I am just playing my second game that is on warload level. I won my first game but with very less point 632. In my second game I already captured america and right now war with ottoman, already captured their 2 cities.......I believe early war and then at the end when I got tanks etc. Please also tell me where can I get description for the abbreviation u guys used.....like RCP, ICS.

When I play then I can't get windows start option to run another program, so I save the game close it, open paint program, paste screen and start again.

Also please let me know when or how should I start the game, I mean when my trun will come? I will be out of the town on 5/22 & 5/23 (saturday & sunday).

After reading all this you can understand I am the weakest link of your Team.

handy900

May 20, 2004, 04:52 PM

Play Order
1. Handy
2. Tinkez
3. Oddible <- UP
4. maharaja <- I'm putting you here between two seasoned players. Welcome!
5. Ted
6. Coletite

maharaja - we'll post some specific instructons to help you during your turns since you since you are new to monarch level. :D

When I play then I can't get windows start option to run another program, so I save the game close it, open paint program, paste screen and start again.

Try opening paint before you open the game. Then hit the ALT+TAB key to cycle back & forth.

Leipzig We can build warriors alot faster than spears until the city gets bigger. We can build build warriors in Leipzig to escort Berlin's settlers about as fast as we can build settlers. We can build spears when the city gets bigger & pulls more shields. I hate to pop spears, but if the barbs get too thick we may have to in the corrupt cities.

Berlin You can also MM Berlin to build a 1 turn warrior with no growth @ pop 5 in a pinch. Mine the BG and we may be able to get warriors in 1 turn and grow. I'll open the save when I get home & take a peek.

Good Luck Oddible :D

Nice job Tinkez :goodjob:

Here a few thoughts - pipe up with comments | discussion | questions
We need more workers.
Some thoughts on our cities:
Leipzig You can get 4 turn warriors from here now.
We could build 1 warrior in Leipzig (4-turn), and in Berlin build a warrior in 1 (zero growth 10 shields) and then a 4-turn settler. This way every 5 turns we will have 2 warriors for each settler. The big barb uprising is coming soon. Anyone opposed to this for the next 10 turns? I’d like to keep forest around Berlin to chop a market. Leipzig grows in 5 turns, so it’s needs more irrigation.

Hanover Can’t grow past size 2 until tiles are improved. It should be switched to barracks, then pop a vet spear. After chops & improvements this will be a good city.

Konigsberg MM the city to work the BG so we pull 2 shields.

Bremen If we work the IRON tile, we can get barracks AND spear in 20 turns. It can’t grow without chopping some stuff anyway.

Munich Build workers here – and irrigate the flood plains.

Heidelburg & Frankfurt Warrior then workers, workers, workers.

Workers near Berlin need to build a road to the iron.

Soon both Konigsberg & Hamburg will be building spears. We can use these spears to fortify cities with only warriors in them.

Next cities - See dot map below

The red dot - with blue circle around it would auto-fill 5 tiles. It is not on a river though. The barb next to this dot is on a river. Either spot could work the BG. River or score…, score or river… Oddible can decide. :D This city also protects the road to the spices from pillaging.

Red dot yellow circle auto-fills 5 spots, and would be a decent 2nd ring city with some irrigation.

Red dot green circle will pull a lot of food, but the raging barbs will come from here, so we should wait for spears before we settle this one.

Red dot brown circle N of Berlin has a cow & the coast.

The two Red dots N of Berlin auto fill each other, have fresh water & food after irrigation.

Yellow Lower priority.

There is a lone spear fortified near Leipzig can escort the next settler.

handy900

May 20, 2004, 07:12 PM

1000 BC - see post above for dot legend :p

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HANDY_SG002_BC1000_pic.JPG

Tinkez

May 21, 2004, 05:17 AM

Leipzig can build warriors, that is fine. Then we can upgrade them after the iron is connected.

We should start gathering veteran warriors ready for the moment we get iron, then do a massive sword upgrade and attack Cathy. The tech race is going on and we want to take the advantage of swordsmen before pikemen. I have the following suggestion:

Berlin keeps building settlers, first one races to get the spot near Russia (yellow/red on Handy's map). Use the available spear to escort the settler there. Then start expanding north. The spot SW from Berlin could be settled, but rather let someone else take it and then later capture it. It's a lousy spot anyway without lots of jungle chopping, so there's no rush to take it. We need the workers elsewhere.

Leipzig builds warriors for escorts.
Konigsberg finishes barracks and begins pumping warriors.
Hamburg finishes spear then warriors.
Munich changes to workers, only them.
Workers connect iron asap (road the hill when connecting iron, easier to connect Konigsberg later).

After we have the swords, we attack and hope to get a leader. We will start expanding very fast now and we need forbidden palace soon. The first leader would be perfect to build that and get second core and allow a boost to production.

Opinions? :eek:

-Tinkez

maharaja

May 21, 2004, 08:02 AM

why are we building barrack in Munich, I think we should build one worker first who can work on tiles to connect near by iron to munich and then we can build one warrior, then barracks.....second are these the spearman fortified near Munich and Leipzig. What do you think we move them to where group of workers are working on tiles.

coletite

May 21, 2004, 04:54 PM

1) How many warriors do we want before we hook up iron? I.E: How many swords do we need to crush Cathy?

2) Do we want to align with Joan, or do we want to push strait through russia to france? In my opinion, getting rid of Joan as soon as possible is preferable. If left alone for too long she builds up a lot of culture which brings an increased risk of flipping. Not to mention musketeers.

3) What will our first target be? Take out border cities first or drive strait for the capitol. The later will be a more crippling blow and will make it more difficult for Cathy to launch an effective counter-strike.

handy900

May 21, 2004, 08:35 PM

Tinkez - You & I are in agreement on moves. :D

Where is oddible :( If he does not show soon, we will have to skip him/her.

Play Order
1. Handy
2. Tinkez <-played last
3. Oddible <---is up
4. maharaja
5. Ted
6. Coletite

Thoughts on the future:
I agree with Tinkez - Settle Red/yellow dot first.
Then I would settle red/blue next since it is a first ring city, and will buffer Berlin from barbs. If this was not raging barbs, I’d wait, but we need the buffer to allow workers to move more freely.
Build road to iron asap.
I like 12 swords minimum to go to war, prefer 16 with multiple cities in production. We are a ways off from that, which is okay. It’s easier to settle land than to take cities by force. We should be content to settle the north and root out barbs while we build our army. Remember, there is a massive barb uprising on the way, so we are already at war in a way.
We should discuss building embassies in the AI’s we do not plan to attack in the first war with Russia. In solo games I’d sign ROP’s so the other AI’s will not ally with Russia. We want them to sit idly by.
I think we go straight for Russia’s heart – Moscow. Take it, pop a settlers or workers to get pop down to 1.
It takes 3 turns to get 60 gold to upgrade swords. It is 60 gold on PTW – right? It’s 60 on C3C. The sooner we hook the iron up and just make swords from scratch, the better IMHO. We can use cash to buy techs.
Leader for FP sounds good. Second for GL or Pyramids.

coletite

May 21, 2004, 10:02 PM

I can't remember how much upgrading to swords cost, but I know that they increased it for C3C. I'll check the game when I get home before I make my vote for the upgrade/from scratch issue.

On another note, people keep talking about ring cities, but all of our cities are a differen't distance from the capital:

Leipzig=4
Hamburg=4.5
Konigsberg=5
Bremen=6
Heidelburg=7
Hannover=8
Frankfurt=9

Are we talking more in terms of "core" and "outer rim" cities? Because we are a long way off from RCP.

handy900

May 21, 2004, 10:23 PM

Are we talking more in terms of "core" and "outer rim" cities? Because we are a long way off from RCP.

Yes - that's what I mean. Core = 1st ring around Berlin - the closest and the least corruption.

coletite

May 21, 2004, 10:40 PM

Should we skip Oddible? It has been over 24 hours.

Is anyone really keen on culture fliping? I'm just wondering what the odds are of Moscow flipping after we capture it. Poping settlers and workers to thin out the Russian ranks sounds fine, but since we are playing for score, I don't want to reduce the population anymore than we have to. Hopefully, Russia will fall soon after the initial decleration. Does anyone feel up to drawing a battle plan? I can do one later tonight, but I'm still a novice at screen caps! :crazyeye:

[edit] Speaking of score, what can we do right now to increase our score without hampering our progress? Obviously expanding will be a major part of that. Next would be happiness, right? Do we want (or need) to use a little bit more of the lux slider than necassary to milk a few more happy people each turn? On the flip side, that gold can add up to major upgrades or purchasing tech which could pay off with an earlier finish and therefore a better score.

coletite

May 22, 2004, 12:55 AM

A preliminary battle plan (assuming war will break out soon):

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Handy_Battle_Plan.jpg

If we divide our forces at the start we can take out the small cities to the east. They shouldn't take many troops. In all, the plan is a no-brainer. But notice Smolnesk (not sure of the spelling), if English and/or French borders expand, we will have to cross through someone elses territory. What effect does this have on our plan? Do we leave one city for Russia or do we make that city a top priority with its own strike force? If we are planning on barreling through Russia to France, then it isn't a problem.

Resources: Russia has none. England has the nearest availabe iron, but it doesn't look like its hooked up yet. France isn't very close to their iron. My idea- Take Russia. Rest/regroup. Attack England along the west side depriving them of iron. Either continue to wipe them out, or make peace while we trounce the French. Meanwhile, move Hans to the iron in French territory to protect it from colonies. If France envelopes it in its borders, Hanz can move just outside and wait. When we attack France, he can scurry up and pillage any roads that may be on the iron.

On the sunject of conquest: if we take out Russia, England and France quickly, we may be able to wipe them out before they get contact with the othe continent tehreby saving our reputation. It may already be too late, but if galleys cannot reach the other continent, then this could be a good move.

TedJackson

May 22, 2004, 02:59 AM

It takes 3 turns to get 60 gold to upgrade swords. It is 60 gold on PTW – right? It’s 60 on C3C. The sooner we hook the iron up and just make swords from scratch, the better IMHO. We can use cash to buy techs..PTW is 40gp per Warrior (IIRC) as there's a 20 shield differential multiplied by the Gold to Shields Factor of 2.

Ted

TedJackson

May 22, 2004, 03:11 AM

On the subject of conquest: if we take out Russia, England and France quickly, we may be able to wipe them out before they get contact with the othe continent tehreby saving our reputation. It may already be too late, but if galleys cannot reach the other continent, then this could be a good move.This would be my choice of plan. Taking out our 3 nearest neghbours ASAP, perhaps pausing to revolt to Monarchy before tackling France :)

That would leave us free to develop the rest of our starting continent to our own liking, and maybe even let us win by domination without bothering about whatever other continents there are.

Research could be switched off once our immediate neighbours are dealt with and the excess gold spent on happiness producers whilst salting enough away to ensure our re-entry into the tech race if we have visitors.

Ted

handy900

May 22, 2004, 06:34 AM

Oddible is past the 24 hours he has to claim the game , so the game passes to maharaja. If Oddible turns up he can play after maharaja. If we don’t keep moving the game will bog down. maharaja post an "I GOT IT" when you get the game so we will know you are playing your 10 turns.

maharaja Earlier you said you have been playing warlord. Since you are new to monarch, if you have questions, stop during your turns, post your question with the sav file as an attachment, and we will answer you.

During your turns
If any other Civ demands tribute (example they demand you give them 30 gold or whatever, PAY IT! We are not ready for war - yet). Avoid war at all costs during the next 10 turns.
Check Berlin each turn to make sure it has 5 food. If you play a turn with less than 5 food it will mess up our settler factory.
* Protect our workers from barbs. Better safe than sorry. Remember, barb horses get 2 tiles per turn.

Take the following action in each of these cities:
* Hanover Can’t grow past size 2 until tiles are improved. It should be switched to barracks, then pop a vet spear.
* Konigsberg MM the city to work the BG so we pull 2 shields in this city.
* Hamburg – build warrior after the barracks completes.
* Bremen Work the IRON tile, we can get barracks AND spear in 20 turns.
* Munich Switch to build workers here. Send the worker to a safe location (protected by a spear)
* Heidelburg & Frankfurt Finish the current warrior builds, then build workers.
Workers near Berlin need to build a road to the iron ASAP so we can build swords.

coletite

May 22, 2004, 08:45 AM

Handy- When you say "pop a spear" you mean pop rushing, right? Just want to make sure I'm clear on the lingo.

handy900

May 22, 2004, 08:59 AM

Handy- When you say "pop a spear" you mean pop rushing, right? Just want to make sure I'm clear on the lingo.

Yes.

Typically I avoid this, but given raging barbs, and the massive jungle, it seems an okay play for this city.

coletite

May 22, 2004, 09:02 AM

What is the ETA for war?

When we get embassies established, could the player post a screen cap of Moscow? I'd like to see what we're dealing with.

Oddible

May 22, 2004, 03:13 PM

Got it. Will try to get my turns in this afternoon, if not, then definitely tomorrow early. We're not really pressed for space so I don't see any imperative to go to war (except to knock down a foe early). My biggest concern would be having all our offense embroiled in a war when the age change happens. I like the yellow red dot but the blue red doesn't excite me too much. Its inner ring, but won't really be a producer until a lot of work has been done - also, its got a line of mountains on the far side which will make it impossible for England to defend if they settle there. Would love to get some coastal action going on but of course there are some barb worries over there. What do you guys think of using a city as a barb sponge? Basically spend all our cash right after the age change and undefend a city and lure the barbs into it. They all disappear and we lose almost nothing.

Also, how about westward expansion? Clearly we want to expand north and northeast but if we drop a city over on the west somewhere we can block England's northern route - basically make them have to cross our land if they try to expand into our norther area (not a priority or anything, just some ideas)...

handy900

May 22, 2004, 03:22 PM

Play Order
1. Handy
2. Tinkez <-played last
3. Oddible <-Has Got it
4. maharaja <- plays next
5. Ted
6. Coletite

Oddible

May 22, 2004, 08:48 PM

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The Save - Handy_SG002_BC0750_01.SAV (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Handy_SG002_BC0750_01.SAV)

Firaxis score: 238
Jason score: 182
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Pre

Per suggestion from Handy / Tinkez:
Liepzig switch spear->warrior in 2
Konigsberg MM to BG
Hannover switch spear->barracks in 16
Munich switch barracks->worker in 6

IBT

Berlin settler->settler in 4 with growth in 2 MM
Heidelburg warrior->worker

Barbs advance on our workers at Berlin

975BC - 1 - Turn 81

Johann kills barb at Berlin
Warrior kills barb at Hannover
Spear comes back for Berlin, Settler and spear leave for the south.
Munich workers sent to Leipzig

Franz kills barb
Russia has a settler just outside Heidelburg

Lux to 0%

IBT

Leipzig warrior->warrior
Konigsberg barracks-warrior

950BC - 2 - Turn 82

Berlin workers to iron

Franz takes barb camp +25g

Ugh, Konigsberg doesn't want to settle down. They're pissed about the whip. They want us to go to 30% luxury at a loss of 9gpt. Forget it, Entertainer (0 growth - need that grain irrigated).

IBT

Elizabeth wants to trade territory maps. I give her an old map of our territory for her world map.

Barb attacks Konigsberg, dies.

Joan builds us an Embassy

925BC - 3 - Turn 83

Construction still to pricey (WM 7gpt +194g)

Trade Joan 180g + 1gpt for Philosophy

We're the strongest army that we know of.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Handy_SG002_Strong.jpg

Our culture is starting to lag.

Lux to 0%

IBT

Russians build Tblisi on the north coast.

Barb attacks Konigsberg, dies.

Frankfurt warrior->worker

900BC - 4 - Turn 84

Bremen switch to Barracks

IBT

Berlin settler->settler (MM 2/4 factory)
Leipzig warrior->warrior (in 3, grew to 4)
Hamburg warrior->warrior

875BC - 5 - Turn 85

Send settler to sw, decided that our score would benefit from the city placement though the city isn't going to much for a while.

MM Konigsberg back to full employment

IBT

Joan asks to trade World Maps, I trade her territory maps instead just to be friendly.

Barb attacks settler to the south, spear defends.

Philosophy->Monarchy

Munich worker->worker

850BC - 6 - Turn 86

Settle Stuttgart ->warrior

Russian scout seen going north.

Science to 70% - Monarchy in 28 (+1)

Trade Joan Polytheism for Construction + WM + 80g
Trade Cathy Poly for Code of Laws + WM + 10g

IBT
~

825BC - 7 - Turn 87

Warrior kills barb in sw

MM Berlin to stay at 5f

IBT

Leipzig warrior->warrior

800BC - 8 - Turn 88

Settle Bonn ->worker

Hanz got settled behind French lines.

IBT

Joan is in a tizzy about trapping Hanz, we agree to leave.

Hannover is attacked, our defender falls, pillaged. (I should have attacked - missed it).

Berlin settler->settler
Konigsberg warrior->warrior

775BC - 9 - Turn 89

Sending new Konisberg warrior to Hannover.
We should send a warrior or two to pop these barb camps in the ne and we'll be in good shape for the coming onslought. Also its 25g per so some good income.

Settler is heading for the coastal river delta in the ne.

IBT

Joan kicks Hanz out. He goes north (thankfully)!
She has horses hooked up.

Hamburg warrior->warrior

750BC - 10 - Turn 90

Science to 90%, Monarcy in 16 (-4gpt)

Parting thoughts

Everything is going pretty well, the barbs weren't a major factor for me as I think we've got a good system of defenders going. Whoever follows, just remember that the barb horses attack at 2 but defend at 1 so if you see one in range, attack it if you are only a warrior. Also, Berlin is not a passive player, you pretty much have to be in there every turn making sure things are working (5 food per turn).

Konigsberg is going to be rockin but needs some work - that barb camp has got to go. I've left 2 warrior up there that can be stacked to knock it out. I'm moving the warrior from Bremen to Hannover. Also, Hannover has the spice so we should hook that up when the workers are done with the iron.

Leipzig can stay on warriors to cover the settlers from Berlin. That's working out pretty well.

BTW, our infrastructure is starting feeling pretty good. Travelling across our over 12 x 12 square empire is pretty quick. If we're planning a conflict with Russia, then we need a good roadway to Frankfurt and Stuttgart and some beginnings of roads leading south from there. Bring some workers along with the invading force as well.

I'm a wee bit concerned about the horses in the north and think that getting someone up there might not be a bad idea in the near future. Russia is starting to plant settlers pretty far afield and she's already scoped out the map with her scout.

Iron in 3.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Handy_SG002_Rank.jpg

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