SGOTM2 Game Thread

Welcome to your game thread for SGOTM2-Germany

Here is the start position.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM2-start-position.jpg

Each team has their own save file. Please download and play from the correct save. If you use the wrong save the server will not accept your submission. Also, please make sure that the software version is correct. PM me immediately if it is not.

You can download your save file >>HERE<<. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm_submission_list.php)

The Roster
barbslinger
gozpel
microbe
offa
spleen1015

Welcome team! I don't know about the play order. Offa please set that to what you feel the best balance would be. I have read Sulla's report from this GOTM and it looks like fun. I'm still hazy on the scoring and variations. Let's see if we can win it this time!

After looking at the variant it may be possible to win both laurels. With a quick domination of nearby civs leaving them 1-2 cities and then knocking out all the others except 1 that can build the UN for us would allow us to get to gracious status with the early civs that we knocked down. We can then protect the 2-3 gracious civs with out MPP or MA. Or use MPP and MA until 20 turns before the UN is built by target civ. Build up a ton of cities for score while keeping gracious civs 2-3 techs behind. Then take UN, wait for any MA or MPP to expire, if any, and look to our gracious civs to vote us in. We will all have to plot this out correctly but early butt-kicking would be required.
I am not adverse to going for an early domination/ conquest for top Jason either.

I didn't realize this was starting already. I don't mind what variant we play.

Early on all games will be a bit similar anyway as we have to expand enough to have 2 cores. I would quite like to try a palace jump as I have never done one.

I fortunately have no spoiler info on this game. The start spot is at least by a river with lots of forest for quick shields, and 2 BG. No bonus food visible. I would have thought the worker should move east and if nothing is revealed then the settler should found a city where he is.

The germans are militaristic so we could build an early cheap barracks, a few archers and then go on a very early military campaign. The start position is very good for this but it depends on meeting other civs quickly, preferably civs without bronze working (spears). I would have thought warrior, barracks, warrior/archer, worker(for all the tree felling) archer. If there is someone close by then an early encounter with our vet archers could be bad for them. I think I would play a very aggressive early game if it was a solo game, but as there is a risk of early disaster, this is trickier in a SG. I don't think an early granary is a priority unless there is a good bonus food tile in the city site, or the surrounding land is terrible.

I don't think the order of play matters, apart from that next weekend would be very bad for me (big party). I have to try to get myself back into Civ3 mode as I have spent the last week playing civ2 where everything is different.

The UN idea isn't quite attractive to me. It will definitely delay our victory a lot. I'd rather focus on fast conquest or domination. If for any reason we couldn't do that before UN gets around, we can consider going for it, otherwise just finish this game off asap.

I get the impression we are drifting behind here as most of the other threads have a lot more posts. We ought to get started. I don't think the order matters much although I think Gozpel wanted to go later on in the order. So I think you may as well start now Barbslinger. If you prefer I would be happy to start, but I think we should get rolling.

Got it! Will play tonight after work.

I had withdrawn in the other thread, but it looks like you guys haven't gotten that far. Do you guys care if I jump back in?

First off, welcome aboard Spleen!

[1] 4000BC - Looks like the map is a little different. Move worker to BG and settle on the spot. Pottery at 90% in 14 turns.
[2] 3950 – Mining BG. Set to warrior. There is wheat in the NW on expansion.
[3-5] 3900 to 3800 – zzz
[6] 3750 - Warrior > Warrior. He heads W to circle north.
[7] 3700 – Adolf goes west.
[8] 3650 – Mine completes > road, warrior in 2. Adolf W.
[9] 3600 – Lots of mountains/hills about 4-5 tiles west.
[10] 3550 – Warrior > Rax for granary prebuild. Adolf NW. Bernhard S to sweep E.
[11] 3500 – Pop growth, Berlin expands, road completes > to next bg. There are spices to S near a river. Nice 4-pack of floodplains 6 NW of capital. Pottery can be had in 2 at 100%.
[12] 3450 – Bernie S, Adolf NE across floodplains.
[13] 3400 – Pottery>Alphabet. Granary in 10 at 5spt using bg and undeveloped grassland/game tile. Maintaining 100% research at 0gpt.
[14] 3350 – zzzz
[15] 3300 – 1st contact, a Russian scout. She is up CB. No deals.
[16] 3250 – scouting.
[17] 3200 – Find another wheat way north. Looks like good land up there.
[18] 3150 – Mine completes > Road. Wheat irrigation is next.
[19] 3100 – scouting. Cathy has alphabet, but even at 6gpt it’s no deal. Now I’m puzzled at what rate to research. Maintaining 100%.
[20] 3050 – We have ivory 5 tiles north!
[Miscount] 3000 – Make it 2 ivories.

We have spices and ivory nearby and worker is set to irrigate wheat. Alpha in 11 but it will drop if we meet someone else.

Save at 3000BC (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/offa_SG002_BC3000_01.SAV)

gozpel seems to have computer problem and he posted it in several SGs days ago, so maybe we should put him at fourth.

We should settle on the ivory and get a worker factory running. Someone put a dotmap?

gozpel seems to have computer problem and he posted it in several SGs days ago, so maybe we should put him at fourth.

We should settle on the ivory and get a worker factory running. Someone put a dotmap?Well, I wouldn't want to speak for Offa but I see no reason that if you're ready to play you could take it now.

Well, I wouldn't want to speak for Offa but I see no reason that if you're ready to play you could take it now.

Yes please play. I think it is game in the sw of the Berlin city limits. This would give 4 food when irrigated which together with irrigating the wheat would enable a 4 turn settler factory I think. Can you check this, and if it is correct we should set it up ASAP.

I think we should build a worker next as there is a lot to do. My hopes of a very early war don't look good as nobody is very close it would seem. Therefore we should go full on for expansion.

Someone put a dotmap? I think we still need to look to our East before cementing a dotmap to our plans. I do like a town heading towards spices or start settling north towards ivory with the better lands. Concur on a worker next unless growth/shields don't match up. Perhaps a spear for MP/defense a have the other warrior head east for a look around. Contacts would be nice. The Russians look to be south due to the direction the scout came from. ;)
I favor good lands for growth. I think the spices will be ours whether the AI likes it or not. I like a town SE of the lake to the north and towns flanking each side of the floodplains on the plains and rivers. A town for the spices for sure too. We are going to need some workers. Hopefully the 4-turn Offa is spying will put our expansion into high gear.

I've checked the save game and it is game in the south. Therefore there is a simple 4 turn settler factory available:

Turn 1: city sq +2f 1s
BG 0f 2s
BG 0f 2s
irrigated game +2f 0s (2f for grass add 1 for irrigation 2 for game - 1 for despot)
irrigate wheat +1f 1s

total +5f 6s

Turn 2 is the same with 2 more shields on growth
total +5f 8s and grow to size 5

Turn 3: city sq +2f 1s
BG 0f 2s
BG 0f 2s
reg grass 0f 1s
irrigated game +2f 0s
irrigate wheat +1f 1s

total +5f 7s

Turn 4 is the same with 2 more shields on growth
total +5f 9s and grow to size 6

total shields is 6+8+7+9 = 30 = magic.

So we just need to irrigate the wheat, chop the forest over the game and irrigate it and mine a reg grassland, set governor to emphasize production and not control moods (which we should have done anyway) and we are away.

By the way we need to bump up the lux slider or we riot next turn.

@Offa: do you want to play before me? I can take it tonight otherwise.

No you go ahead. I'll play after you if that's OK. I just want to free myself for the weekend when I can't play.

You guys let me know where you want me to take my turns. I can make them at almost any time.

roster:

barbslinger
gozpel (skipped - might jump in after offa)
microbe - up
offa - on deck
spleen1015

Guys, I read the first few posts of Team scout's thread. scoutsout has been helping me the last few weeks and I wanted to see how he was handling his team as the leader. I didn't read anything that would be considered a spoiler or anything.

Just want to be honest.

Guys, I read the first few posts of Team scout's thread. scoutsout has been helping me the last few weeks and I wanted to see how he was handling his team as the leader. I didn't read anything that would be considered a spoiler or anything.

Just want to be honest.Please read the warning at the top of the SGOTM forum. We don't want to be disqualified.

I believe that warning may be in response to me reading that thread. It makes sense not to look. I just didn't think about it.

If it comes to this team being disqualified, hopefully they will let me withdraw instead.

I'm truly sorry fellas. It won't happen again.

Spleen, I'd suggest you PM ainwood to get their OK with you joining this game. Just to be safe. If they give greenlight (given you won't violate it again), you can then play. Sounds OK?

I will do that.

I apologize again fellas. I wasn't trying to get any spoilers, just wanted to see how he was handling his team.

EDIT - PM sent.

Spleen1015 may continue to play.

Be warned though, it is now a trivial matter to monitor who is browsing which threads (even in "stealth mode"). At the moment I am just having aquiet word with the worst offenders, and fortunately the the rate of cross lurking has dropped dramatically. I hope that nobody will ever put me in the position of having to impose some kind of sanction on them as an individual, or the team.

@ Spleen. Are you understanding the 4-turn settler factory we're planning? This will be an important part of our expansion.

@ team- I think this scenario is raging barbs so we're going to have to work out either a warrior factory or a settler/warrior factory. I think during our expansion once the barbs get horsemen we need to keep our cash at a minimum in case a 3rd ring city gets overrun by a barb horde. Then we only lose a minimum of cash. We can pull the warrior and just let them run through town.

@barbslinger: what, we fear barb horses..so you are not suggesting archer rush? ;)

I'll play this tonight.

I'm with Offa that an early archer rush is fantastic! Just like in wonderless is wonderful it works great. However, there are no nearby civs and until we locate our surrounding civs and locations I do not advocate that tactic. Sometimes you have to take what the map gives you and adjust to use what strengths are there. In this case, we look to have an ideal opportunity to expand like crazy, much like the Korean space victory that we did with Aggie.
We should expand right now and keep up the exploration. Grab solid lands and look towards the future. I'm not sure whether we should go 3 or 4 tile distance for our first core. I really don't pay it much mind and grab good lands. I think once we uncover our first ring lands we will see. Your turns will get us the granary, a worker and begin a settler farm. The warriors should uncover our 1st ring options and then we can dotmap, IMHO.
As too fearing barb horses, I only know what I read a couple weeks ago on Sullas GOTM8. 20-30 barbs may someday come calling and when they do on our outer cities the city will be overrun. That is just a technique to minimize damage. Then again if we have a lot of cash when they pop up we can deal our cash down to a minimum through a loan or tech purchase.

I would like to point out to not get excited when we initially fall behind on the maintenance thread scoring. Once a settler farm is up and running and we get 8-10 towns down it will change. Since scoring is a function of citizens along with how many happy ones we have it we will fall back while expanding, especially when we have 2 settlers out which is 4 citizens we are not scoring with. It will be true after we settle and only have 1 citizen scoring.
Although, it will be important to get happy faces. In that vein, luxs are a premium.

@ Spleen. Are you understanding the 4-turn settler factory we're planning? This will be an important part of our expansion.

I believe I do. If there is some MM involved, it would be a ood idea to point that out to me and not assume I see it though. I'm still getting the hang of MM.

I believe I do. If there is some MM involved, it would be a ood idea to point that out to me and not assume I see it though. I'm still getting the hang of MM.
See offa's post on page 1. It's not much MM'ing and Microbe will have to get it set up and then Offa can get it churning. By the time the game gets to you it should be running smoothly. Once Offa has played and got it running it would be to your advantage to replay Offas turns to get the hang of the mm'ing needed. You'll see it lots more clearly then.

preturn: raise lux to 10.

(1)2950BC: Start worker.
(2)2900BC: ZZZ
(3)2850BC: worker goes for chopping the forest on game. start warrior.
(4)2800BC: ZZZ
(5)2750BC: warrior->rax.
(6)2710BC: ZZZ
(7)2670BC: ZZZ
(8)2630BC: We get CB from hut. Switch rax to temple.
(9)2590BC: ZZZ
(10)2550BC: ZZZ
(11)2510BC: forest chopped, start irrigation due in 2. We'll still need 6 turns total to set up the factory.
(12)2470BC: ZZZ
(13)2430BC: Irrigation finished, and we are 5f short to size 5. We could go to size 5 next turn, but we still need 5 turns to mine the regular grass, so I postpone the growth and finish temple next turn.
(14)2390BC: temple->warrior.
(15)2350BC: now Berlin will grow to size 5 next turn, and start settler. We are ready for 4-turn settlers! The first warrior could escort the first settler. We are short of escort though so we may want to set up a military town first.

2350BC (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/offa_SG002_BC2350_01.SAV)

This is the map:

Nice, free CB and factory is ready. Offa may have to occillate to get some escorts for the settler. Any word on the exploring. New civs?
Also, you need to post to the maintenance thread to update.

Here it is. Note we'll grow to size 6 in 3 turns and the mining will be completed in 3 turns too. ;)

Perhaps Offa would do the honor of taking 15 turns (1750BC) to get us back on a 10 turn cycle and give Spleen a nice transition point to take over on if Gozpel does not show up by then. He still has yet to check in.

Agreed.

Offa may post screenies as to how to manage the settler factory. There is still MM involved at size 6 as governor always puts the extra pop at the forest. Also the lux slider needs to be adjusted frequently too. Check riot every turn!

Spleen make sure you read this (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3acad_deity_settlers.shtml) first if you haven't done so.

This all looks great. I will play my turns this evening.

Hey guys, I have a question.

How come we didn't road the Game or the Wheat squares? I'm just wondering because I think those 2 Commerce are important. Help this Regent player understand. :)

Good question. Normally you are right, but I wanted the settler factory to set up asap (roading them will delay for like 5 turns). ;) For the same reason, I didn't mine the other reg grass which is next to river (so it has an extra commerce). Maybe I should trade a couple of turns for it. We should go back and road them.

I've downloaded the save. Well done at the preparation for a settler factory. I agree that you couldn't afford to hang around and build roads. A pity that we are still just short at the moment as we need that mine on the grass. We are about to overproduce a load of food/ shields on the next turn but I can't easily see a way around this.

I don't understand why we built a temple. We could have built a settler and prob 2 warriors instead. I think we may have fallen behind other teams as a result. The settler factory seems pretty straightforward and I doubt that many (if any) of the teams weren't on to it.

A pity that we are still just short at the moment as we need that mine on the grass. We are about to overproduce a load of food/ shields on the next turn but I can't easily see a way around this.


No, Offa, next turn we'll start settler factory perfectly. The mine wouldn't be in picture until we hit size 6. We'll get both in exactly 3 turns. Try it if you don't believe me, but don't mess up the pattern. ;)


I don't understand why we built a temple. We could have built a settler and prob 2 warriors instead.

Maybe temple isn't the best thing to do, but building a settler first would mean you'd have to wait for the pop to grow. I don't think anyone could have made the factory any faster. Now we have a factory set up perfectly.

No, Offa, next turn we'll start settler factory perfectly. The mine wouldn't be in picture until we hit size 6. We'll get both in exactly 3 turns. Try it if you don't believe me, but don't mess up the pattern. ;)



Maybe temple isn't the best thing to do, but building a settler first would mean you'd have to wait for the pop to grow. I don't think anyone could have made the factory any faster. Now we have a factory set up perfectly.

Sorry about that Microbe. I think you are a great player and I am delighted to be playing with you. I just hate temples.

Offa don't get me wrong. I am not angry. I am a nice person. ;) Feel free to point out anything you doubt about in my turns, I'll never feel unhappy about that.

As I said temple might not have been the best to do - we could probably have made some warriors instead. I thought about that, but there were two reasons that I did the temple:
1. it used the chopped forest better
2. too many warriors == too much unit upkeep

Didn't the temple also give us a content citizen? I figured that was a main reason for the move.

Yes of course that's another obvious reason.

I think Offa's comments stem from, a) Since it will be a settler factory occillating between 4-6 or 5-7 we didn't really need the temple and could adjust the lux slider to compensate, and b) Since we are going for quick domination temples are a bit of a waste because money can be used to rush units later. Correct me if I'm wrong Offa. I don't mind the temple that much. I think 6 warriors for the cost of the temple would have been better at this stage. It did cost 60 shields, right? That is a lot of warriors or 2 spears for MP. I usually won't do a temple unless it is a high food city that will have happy trouble.

OK guys I have started my goes but I am now officially at war with the city governor. I worked out I could get the factory working immediately by switching worked tiles around.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/turn1.jpg

6 shields in the bag +8 now +2 on growth should give 16 and then the settler factory will roll even though the mine isn't finished yet.

But what do I get, even after I set the governor to emphasize production, not food:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/turn2.jpg

That's right. The governor has allocated the new worker to the deer and not the forest. All my planning is scuppered and we are 2 shields short. Sometimes I really hate Civ.

Before anything else goes wrong, I will give you a very brief window of opportunity to suggest a ring size before I start playing again. I am thinking of an inner ring at 3. I am pretty worried about barbarians as there is a lot of empty space around us for them to spawn in. Any suggestions about research: we are 3 techs down on the russians already, and they have alphabet we we are learning.

I will restart in a short while. I am annoyed with Civ right now, partly because Microbe told me not to mess with his plan and I have been burnt unfairly for doing it anyway.

You have a good point, but OTOH look at our economy. Now we are making 7gpt and have 5 units (3 warriors+2 workers). Imagine what would happen if we had 3 more spears. Plus the granary maintenance we would be almost bankrupt (not even considering lux or sci). So I chose temple which has the least maintenance overhead and the best long term investment benefit, also for a good timing of the settler factory. It was a tough call when you knew you'd be stuck with one city for a while. ;)

Offa, I actually tried this myself, and it worked as planned. I'll post the sequence myself.

That same thing has happened to me before too. I'm sure you'll get her straightened out or close to it. Can you also DE-emphasize food in the governor? I never have liked that guy. I would like to agree on the 3 ringer. I tend to do that as much as possible now. Our lack of contacts is hurting and it sounds like Cathy is finding goodie huts a plenty. Her scouts will surely give us a barbarian headache.

This is turn 1, 6s.

This is turn 2. No change.

Microbe I agree this will work. I just thought I could get started 2 turns earlier. The facory can work at start pop 4 instead of 5. I will just have to live with getting the first settler out one turn late.

This is turn 3 - we grow to size 6. Note the governor chose the forest so now we have accumulated 14 shields. Now we need to do some MM: move the forest to the mined grassland. See the next picture.

This is still turn 3, after the MM (as I said the mine is just completed this turn!). Now we do 7spt and keep food at 5 (which should be always). Since we grow, check if we need to raise lux.

This is turn 4. We have accumulated 21 shields. We are making 7spt and lacking 9 shields, but next turn governor will choose forest to make up for the extra 2 shields. No change in this turn.

We built the settler! MM to make it the same as turn 1, and keep going like this.

I'm thinking we could also turn this into a warrior, worker, settler factory after we get 3-4 towns down. We are going to need the workers and I do love those little guys.

Here it is guys. I think we have our work cut out a bit.

2350bc: set governor to emphasize production.
exit to load up cprings: I am pretty unsure how to place the cities but I am worried about barb camps as there is a lot of empty space around us so I think I will start off with a tight build.

I change the warrior build to settler and fiddle around with the worked tiles to give 8 next turn. That way our settler factory should be able to start immediately and we we get the first settler out 2 turns earlier than if we build a warrior this turn. I hope we don't lose anything vital to barbs.

Our science looks bad. I am not sure what to do after we get alphabet. prob shoot to republic?

2310 mm back to +5 food. We should have 16 shields in the bin and are producing 6 (mine not finished) so will just get the settler out in 2 with no waste. Except of course we haven't. We have only 14 shields in the bin because the stupid governor insisted on working the game on growth and not a forest, despite being set up to emphasize production. Argggghhhhh. I hate Civ.


Bump lux up to 10% and reduce science to just get alphabet in 2.

I posted about my frustration at this point.

2230 mine on grass finished. 29 shields in the box, Grrrrrrr. Nothing for it but to make the settler next turn. 4 turn settlers from then on, unless a turn can get trimmed off somewhere with a forst chop.

WE meet english: also up by masonry, they have alphabet.We have just learnt alphabet. I decide to start writing at min. It seems a bit of a lottery to me what to do.

2190 settler made at last, sent 3 to west.
2150 zzz although micromanagement is needed to stay on +5 food.
2110 zzz russians have iron working.
2070 Leipzig built on jungle sq 3 to west. barbs spotted in west and we kill them.
2030 settler built sent north.
1990 zzz
1950 Hamburg in N
1870 settler sent E. hamburg finishes warrior starts a barracks.
I am escorting the settlers with our Berlin warrior until I can see they can found a town unmolested by barbs.

1790 Konisburg built in E.
trades with england buy writing (which they have just got) for 13 gpt and 42g.
then with russia I buy myst for writing and 25g.
then with england I buy masonry for myst and 8g.
Both russia and england have contact with france, and I could have bought contact but then I couldn't

have afforded Masonry.

1750 zzz warior in SW on mountain survives a barb attack.
1725 I have overshot.

Spleen I am afraid I hand over to you a near bankrupt economy. We are growing though. The initial ring at 3 doesn't have lot to recommend it but there is a fair bit of forest.We need some workers to chop it down. The next ring offers better prospects.

The forest chop next to Leipzig finishes next turn so the barracks will complete immediately.

The settler factory needs micromangement every 2nd turn to take a worker off the forest and maintain the +5 surplus. You should inherit my governor settings with the save. The factory needs the governor (which is seriously in my bad books) to emphasize production. Please can eveyone always set their governors to this. I know that the wretched thing often messes up anyway, but we must try to help it.

Our $$$ situation is marginal as well, so you need to adjust the lux slider every turn to keep us afloat. More roads would help as well. There is a lot to do to improve our land, so workers are a priority.

The French are somewhere out there. It would be nice to find them.On the top 5 cities screen paris is only size 1, so I guessed they aren't that strong.

Science wise we are behind by iron working.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/offa1725.jpg

the game: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/offa_SG002_BC1725_01.SAV

Could somebody come up with a dotmap? I could do it if nobody else wants to do..

Also, is this now a 4-6 or 5-7 settler factory? I can see we are still at size 4.

EDIT: maybe I don't feel the raging barbs, but I normally wouldn't have a tight build. Especially I'd have built to get ivory within the first city range.

Could somebody come up with a dotmap? I could do it if nobody else wants to do..

Also, is this now a 4-6 or 5-7 settler factory? I can see we are still at size 4.

The factory is a bit between the 2. Turn one pop 4, turn 2 and 3 pop 5, turn 4 pop 6. I think if at some point we could chop done a forest we could get a settler out one turn early and then get back to a straightforward 4-6 factory, which would be esier to run. It is a bit of a headache as I have it at the moment. Your way would have been better, but my adventure with the governor put us one turn out of phase with that (settlers out one turn early).

Please do a dot map. I don't normally bother but agree that it might really help here. I have just settled a few towns at ring 3, as I was very worried about barbs, but there are some terrible jungle and mountain squares close to our cities, and a plan about where to build next would be great. We have a settler currently standing on a potential town site at RCP3 , but it isn't a very nice site. If we want a palace jump we need to consider forming a ring around our future forbidden palace. Frankly this game is giving me a headache, as there is a lot to think about.

Some pointy stick research might still pay off. For a Monarch game our science position is tough.

Our scores are lagging a bit behind other teams at the moment so we are going to have to do something clever to catch up. I of course don't know whther their scores mean they have more cities than us.

OK I'll try to come up with a dotmap.

Why headache? It's a Monarchy game and let's just have some fun. I never worry about other teams - I don't even bother to check their scores. To me SGs isn't about competition but achieve a team's own goals. ;)

Why headache?

It's late and that governor thing got to me a bit. I wasn't sure either about the trades. I think we are doing OK though. As you say it's only Monarch and we are bound to catch up in tech at some point. I suspect that very few of the original gotm8 players managed a settler factory, so we are likely to do well compared with them, but most/all of the current teams will be up to it.

The one bit of luck we have had is that one reg warrior has taken out a barb camp and a barb attack, and we have had no losses. Our army is very small so this is significant.

At some point we can go on the attack and then really enjoy.

OK here is the tentative dotmap.

Red dots are resources. Pink ones are normal. White ones are just filling the gap so low priority. The light blue one is unsure - I like the current location better as it could grab both the wheat and mountain later, and also coastal, but the downside is it can't use the wheat immeidately.

All this may depend on the future exploration of course, so just a starting point. I think w should expand toward the south first. Leipzig should keep pumping out military as escort of the settler factory.

Are you guys ready for me to take my turns?

I think I have the settler factory down. microbe's step by step earlier was a big help.

Is there anything I need to do specifically that I may not be catching?

I'm taking 10 turns right?

Guys, I'm a little nervous. :) These will be my first SG turns ever. I'm worried I will make bad moves. :)

Will give a dotmap a closer look tonight. I like a 3-6 to 7 RCP because most of my games never get over 12 citizens anyway. Even if I do make it to sanitation, with rails you can get 15-20 citizens after reconfiguring. This game is not going to last until then, so I think Microbes map can be tightened up a bit. I'd like city after next 1NW of SW ivory on the river. I don't think the borders will connect where the dotmap shows it N of the river and won't get ivory until after expansion. We can then settle SW of the gold mountain and the two can share the floodplains. That floodplain town can pump some workers once improved. Offa mentions building a 2nd core but I'd like to think the English or Russians will be providing that for us. Let's get some horses building when the time comes and then keep pumping them so we can mass upgrade around 20-30 for our first conquest. We should win by the time cavs roll in. :hammer:

I just saw Spleen is itching to get at it. If your ready give it a go. The town making a worker now might do well to grow a bit so we can possibly do some quicker workers. The rax town builds military.

spleen you go for it, but remember Offa did the factory the way 4-5-5-6, not 5-5-6-6. So you probably cannot just follow my sequence. But the principle should be similar.

If you feel comfortable drop a 2 turn worker in there. We need lots more and then the other towns can be functional. With the terrain we have we'll probably need 1.5 - 2.0 workers per town. We can merge them after that.

I typically don't start chopping forest this early. I try to avoid having to do that with my city placements.

Should that be something I look at to do with the workers? I think the answer is yes because of the state of the tiles around us.

One more thing. I submit the save when I am done, correct?

EDIT - I will play my turns tonight. Gonna play a game of Uno with the family first.

Yes, you can just submit to the maintenance thread. Gozpel can grab it from there.

I typically don't start chopping forest this early. I try to avoid having to do that with my city placements.

Should that be something I look at to do with the workers? I think the answer is yes because of the state of the tiles around us. If the chop time is 6 turns, look at where the shields will go and if the will pay off. Forests are generally good for barracks, granaries, temples. Builds that are 20-40 shields.

I kinda like this. Where the large yellows are.

tighter build is OK with me.

Alright. I am going to start my turns now.

THE SAVE (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/offa_SG002_BC1500_01.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/offa1500SGOTM02.JPG

Here's my turn log...

[1] 1700 - Leipzig finished Barracks. Set to Warrior.
Leipzig also grew. Gov set it to the mine I think we need for Berlin. So, I moved it.
The English are building the Oracle.
Worker finished chopping Forest. Moved W to BG to mine and road.
Worker in Konigsberg moved NE to BG to mine and road.
Settler moved SW. Will create new city here next turn.
Bernhard moved S.
Adolf moved N. Sees goody hut to W.
Warrior in Berlin renamed to Sam. Leaving there for MP duty.
Berlin has 1 Unhappy. Moved Slider to compensate, putting us at -1. Should only last 3 turns until we get the next settler.

[2] 1675 - Bernhard moved S. See more Cathy territory.
Worker near Leipzig Mines.
Worker near Konigsberg Mines.
Settler builds Frankfurt. Leave Production at Warrior.
Adolf pops goody hut and finds barbs.

[3] 1650 - Konigsberg finishes Warrior. Set to Warrior. Renamed Warrior to Steve. Gonna use him to explore NE.
Bernhard moves E.
Adolf fights barbs...and wins!
Slider set to 20% to make up for 2nd Unhappy in Berlin. Gone next turn with Settler.

[4] 1625 - Berlin finishes Settler. Set to Settler. Settler moved S.
Hamburg finishes Worker. Set to Warrior. Moved Worker to Berlin. Gonna get roads built to Spices to eliviate Unhappiness in Berlin so that the slider doesn't get touched as much.
Adolf moved NW. Sees barb.
Bernhard moved SE.
Set slider back to 0%.

[5] 1600 - Adolf moved NE.
Worker in Berlin moved S to road.
Settler moved S.
Bernhard moved SE.
IBT - Adolf attacked by barbs and wins!

[6] 1575 - Leipzig finishes Warrior. Set to Warrior.
Frankfurt finishes Warrior. Set to Barracks.
Worker near Berlin roads forest S of Berlin.
Set slider back to 10% for Unhappy in Berlin.

[7] 1550 - Bernhard moved SE. Found what looks like coast to the S by Cathy.
Settler moved SE to next city spot.
IBT - Barbs show up SW of Leipzig and E of Frankfurt. I'm glad I left Warriors to guard those cities.

[8] 1525 - Berlin finishes Settler. Set to Settler.
Konigsberg grows.
Konigsberg finishes Warrior. Set to Barracks. If we're going to war we want our units built as Vets right?
Worker near Konigsberg finishes Mine. Set to road now.
New Settler moved to Frankfurt. Moving to new city site.
Worker NW of Leipzig finished Mine. Set to road now.
Settler builds Munich. Set to Warrior.
Adolf moves N.
Bernhard moves S.
Slider back to 0%
IBT - Barbs fortify just outside our borders.

[9] 1500 - Settler moved S.
Adolf moved S.
Bernhard moved s. Sees barb Horseman.

I only took 9 turns to get us back in line with the 10 turns deal. I hope I didn't mess up too bad. I was worried when I saw that I had2 turns to get the settler when I was supposed to get it in 1. I knew the shields would come with pop growth, but this is the first time I've done this.

I was worried when I saw that I had2 turns to get the settler when I was supposed to get it in 1

:lol: that's indeed weird the first time.

I guess gozpel won't show up in time, but let's give him 24 hours.

I was worried when I saw that I had2 turns to get the settler when I was supposed to get it in 1

:lol: that's indeed weird the first time.

I guess gozpel won't show up in time, but let's give him 24 hours. High 5's for spleen popping his shield cherry! :lol:
I saw earlier today Gozpel has not been on since the 13th. We can give him until I get home from work tomorrow to at least report in. If not, I'll be playing and he can re-slot in when he does report and go next. I wish he would report. He's a good player.

Well done Spleen. Those russian borders in the south look quite close, and in nice land. I think we ought to turn our thoughts to war sooner rather than later. Apart from the settler facory our close in land isn't very good.

Re the dot map, I favour as tight a build as possible.

What has happened on the diplomacy front?

What has happened on the diplomacy front? Looks like we're doing a gambit on Poly. I think it should work. Once we get iron and we should have it with all the iron it will be Cathys throat. Keep pumping settlers, warriors and workers. A few more sites south, a nice wheat-floodplains in the east and of course get the ivory and spice hooked up.

What has happened on the diplomacy front?

I didn't think I could do a good set of complete turns. :) I did nothing diplomacy wise. :(

I did nothing diplomacy wise. :(

I didn't imagine for a moment that you would. I left you with a tech deficit, earning 0gpt and just starting a 40 run on poly. I can't imagine how you could manage any good deals given that position. I just wondered if the AI had developed more techs, and if we have located the French, with whom it would be nice to have a chat.

We have settled some pretty ropey lands now (jungle++), although eventually they can be transformed into something good. There are nice flood plains in the north and wheat in the east. We ought to claim these ASAP as food is very important to us right now. The other priority is expanding towards Russia with a view to taking over their land.

Hi dudes,

finally back and raring to go :)

Only some mental withdrawals, but I' here and almost ready to go, will need some read-ups and stuff. Nice going so far and I see we're playing a'la Offa...tight build.

My turn? If so, objectives? And are we sending saves to maintenance thread now?

Just know, I haven't touched a computer really in almost 2 weeks, so my skills is probably gone (short-term memory loss) :)

Hi, gozpel.
I won't even pretend that I believe your skills are gone... unless, of course, you make us the courtesy to score at least 1 point lower than the staff team :p

Anyway -you need not post the save anywhere. Alan has set up two pages in the GOTM site to upload and download the SGOTM files. It should be well explained in the maintenance thread -first page.
PM us if you find anything wrong, of course.

Thanks Karasu for the kind words, if it was my own game I would be happy to score less than the Staff Team. But since we're are playing exactly that, Teams, I need to bolster up our team's confidence as much as I can, provided I stay sober enough :)

I found the pages and it looks great.

I got it and won't wait for advice, it's pretty clear in this thread. Spawn and build tight!

Right!

gozpel, welcome back! [party]

All Righty! Now we're a team again. Welcome back Gozpel! Well, it's obvious you see whats up. Spin the wheel.

So this will be the new roster.

barbslinger - on deck
microbe
offa
spleen1015 - just played
gozpel - up

Pre-turn - Check all cities, all is good really, but...
Switch Hamburg from warrior to worker. We will need to improve that area very soon.
Let Konigsberg work forest instead of un-irrigated plain, barracks in 5 vs 6 turns.
Frankfurt work food-tile instead of forest for faster growth, barracks in 6 vs 5t.
Always work food tiles if possible!

Great setup otherwise Spleen, I even noticed the smart little extra gold when warrior is due next turn in Leipzieg. You have nothing to worry about, you understand the important little things and now you know how to work a settler factory as well :)

Check diplo, we are a bit behind, but that's not a problem...yet.
The other civs knows France, but where is Joan?

1475bc - Liepzieg warrior -> warrior

Settler SE escorted by vet warrior.
Move troops around.
Scouts thread carefully away from barbhorses.

Check the factory status, and as others said before, the governor is stupid. This has to be fixed every now and again.

Oops, almost caught by unhappiness, 10% luxes ordered.

1450bc - Kill a barb, do some scouting and see a barbhut S

1425bc - Berlin settler -> settler
The people loves us and build stairs to our cave...and we get a lawn too?
Check diplo, contact France will cost 1 gpt and 50g, we like money more than new friends.

1400bc - Frankfurt barracks -> worker
Start roading spices/9t
Settler finds Minsk already settled and move SW to build anyways, at least he will be next to river. We need to remove Minsk later.
Bernhard whacks barbhut and gets 25g.

1375bc - Leipzig warrior -> warrior
Hamburg worker -> barracks
Konigsberg barracks -> warrior
Heidelburg founded -> warrior

1350bc - Scouting warrior defends against barbhorse up north.

1325bc - Berlin settler -> settler
Nuremberg founded by floodplains -> worker

1300bc - Forbidden Palace message
Konigsberg warrior -> warrior

1275bc - Leipzig warrior -> warrior
Frankfurt worker -> warrior
Munich warrior -> worker

1250bc - Russia wants to sell France contact for 80g, no thank you.
Lizzy establish embassy in our capitol
Adolf tries his luck on a barbhut and dies
Bernhard sees pink borders
I was going to let next player decide, but I buy the russian worker available for 109g.

Settler is in place near ivory. There are barbs closeby, warrior on his way.

A couple of cities will start building warriors at a nice pace soon, let them do that.
We need an army of workers, try to make those cities by the floodplains build them.

Score 152

I'm not used to this format yet, let's see if I can link the save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/offa_SG002_BC1250_01.SAV


And a dotmap, which of course can be altered at any time.

A tight build definitely gives us higher score. We are spreading like pests. ;)

Maybe a second settler factory won't hurt.

Nice to have you back Gozpel. Solid turns as usual. I'll be settling and building vet warriors and trying to get more workers. On the 109g for the worker. I wish someone would give a definitive answer on it's worth or not. I love workers but 109g is a lot. Play after work.

Nice to have you back Gozpel. Solid turns as usual. I'll be settling and building vet warriors and trying to get more workers. On the 109g for the worker. I wish someone would give a definitive answer on it's worth or not. I love workers but 109g is a lot. Play after work.

I'll normally buy it, especially if it comes from a strong AI. It will slow down the AI significantly. Getting an extra early worker is huge.

I always buy workers for 2 reasons, to slow down the other civ and for the free support. 109g is only 5 turns of income atm.

Hahaha, I read this in the rules:

SGOTM ettiquette
"Do not make trades on your last turn, but by all means offer advice to the following player."

I wanted that worker and couldn't risk it.
Slinger is such a tightwad sometimes :lol:

Hahaha, I read this in the rules:

SGOTM ettiquette
"Do not make trades on your last turn, but by all means offer advice to the following player."

I wanted that worker and couldn't risk it.
Slinger is such a tightwad sometimes :lol: Funny :lol: I'm sold on the idea now. I really like the idea of denial. It's only 5 turns of cash.

Things are looking fairly good now. I agree with Gozpel about buying the worker; although it is usually nicer to be able to give up techs instead of gold that was hardly possible here. An early war might get a couple of slaves, although it is already a bit late for an early war.

The site near the wheat next to Konisburg should be the next place for a settler (well, after the guy near the elephants builds a town), as it will both be a good site itself and give Konisburg some useful extra squares.

Workers are a major priority here. Frankfurt and especially Munich are both in very unproductive spots which require a lot of work. I think Frankfurt could benefit by working some grassland tiles near Berlin after they have been cleared of forest. Munich appears to be an almost hopeless cause for the foreseeable future as we have so much to do with workers it won't be easy to find time to clear the jungle. We need to connect up luxuries right away. Lots to do really.

War is tough to plan at present as we don't know about horses or iron.

Spotting pink borders is great news.

I just finished 2 other SG's so I'll have to retire for the evening. 2:30am. I'll play tomorrow night. Perhaps in the morning. Sorry team. We've made some nice strides but workers are now a key as we all know.

I played after all but messed up the report writing trying to expedite the game. I founded Cologne for the ivory which is online. Hannover on the Eastern Wheat and floodplains and Bremen near 2 Bg West of Munich. I think it gives Munich a hill to feed off of and a shield. Poly is due next turn and trades will fly I believe.
Now the bad news I messed up the factory on the last turn. Sorry guys.
I brought the game up to have a look and next thing I knew I was 3 turns in with minimal notes. We were ransacked once in Cologne. Our map is pretty robust now too. I have been to the West coast. Save is on the scoring page. I think next settler should head for incense. More happy faces is more score!

I find it entertaining to think what the other teams are up to, based on no information apart from their running scores. The scoring in general is good, so presumably everyone has a settler factory. The X team certainly seem to have got their steroid regime just right. I wonder if they had an early war. Playing vanilla civ will help as buying workers will be very cheap. That would of course also have been the case for the original players. Our early tech research wasn't very lucky either but hopefully that is about to change.

The settler factory messing up occasionally is to be expected (it pretty much always happens to me) and is less important now. I hope we get something good for polytheism. This is vital as we are a backward nation.

Can you guys tell me your thought process as far as exploration is concerned?

I always make sure I reveal every tile because I don't want to miss out on a goody hut. I've noticed we have some fog and was wondering why you guys don't get every tile.

Also, looking at the save, we're at 20% research. Is that because that's the minimum we can get Poly at 1 turn? I just want to make sure I don't bump it back up when it is my turn if the team's plan is to generate gold.

Can you guys tell me your thought process as far as exploration is concerned?

I always make sure I reveal every tile because I don't want to miss out on a goody hut. I've noticed we have some fog and was wondering why you guys don't get every tile.

Also, looking at the save, we're at 20% research. Is that because that's the minimum we can get Poly at 1 turn? I just want to make sure I don't bump it back up when it is my turn if the team's plan is to generate gold.

I haven't seen the save so these are uninformed comments.

We should explore more I agree. We have been a bit slack in this regard but haven't had many units to spare. The only good thing about not exploring is that I vaguely think that barb units won't appear in tiles that no one has seen. That is, however, not a very good reason not to explore. Hopefully soon we will have maps, and then it will help a lot if our maps are worth trading.

Re science and gold our long term plans are I believe currently completely unclear, and depend on the result of our polytheism gambit. 20% does sound a lot for minimum research though. I would have put Munich's citizen to work as a scientist until one jungle square was cleared so we could drop to 0%, but I understand that Barbslinger found one OKish square for Munich to work so maybe not. It depends on how much money can be saved by dropping to 0%.

One other thing ( perhaps revealing my extreme non builder tendencies ;) ) I don't think we should make too many barracks just yet as they cost money to maintain, and workers and settlers are more important. In general barracks are best built when towns get up to size 4-6 at least and have some worthwhile production. They are probably OK to built if a city is about to chop down forest and doesn't want to waste shields. We should definitely not build any other improvements, apart from maybe granaries in the spots with loads of food (ie flood plains), and a forbidden palace. Our culture position is already much stronger than I am used to so no more effort is required there.

I've never played without doing much research, so hopefully I'll learn something. :)

I don't see how we can advance without research. I assume we buy everything?

I seem to play most of my games researching very little and would quite like to change this. It would be good to research all the way up to military tradition if we can do this really quickly. I believe that even more advanced technology than this is possible, but rarely necessary at demigod(?deity) or below.

I have looked at the save. There is an amazing amount of free space around with loads of great potential city sites. However, rather than just expand we should consider war very soon. Even a limited war might give us a few techs. Our military is already rated as strong compared with the others. However an attack with a lot of reg warriors isn't very appealing.

It looks like the poly gambit is going to work. Then we will find out if we have iron or horses. If we don't have either then ? archers, or go and find some resources. Trading for maps will be useful. Ideally we would normally have bought mapmaking as soon as it is known, as this is often a great opportunity to catch up. Suicide galleys may help our science position in the future but at present we have no coastal towns.

The settler factory is indeed slightly off at the moment. However, I think if you manage it back to +5 food you could make a worker next turn and then fall completely back in stride so we won't really lose out much at all.

The 20% is to get poly in one. I think when poly comes in, Microbe shoud be able to get us nearly caught up. Since it looks like we are going to have the east and the north to ourselves for easy expansion we will have the most land by far so staying ahead of the AI at monarch would be easy enough. However, I think we want to run like the wind to MT once we find some horses. Our territory size will provide a ton of horses once we secure a FP. I think that rssia will be getting an itchy trigger finger soon and that fighting is likely to happen. Once we trade for IW I would suggest going all out for swords to secure Russia. Turn down research and upgrade. Leave Russia 1-2 towns to extort the balance of the tech. Once Russia looks in hand I would start on horses with a path towards chivalry and then on to MT. I'd like to wrap this up right after the knight upgrade. I don't think we need libraries. Just some markets in non corupt towns for upgrade cash. Then on to MT.

Got it. Could we always put a link at the beginning/end of turns? I thought Barbslinger didn't finish yet.

Messing up a settler factory isn't a big deal. Sometimes I do it purposely, so a neighbouring town can borrow a foodtile for a few turns to get up in pop.

Hopefully we have iron closeby, so a dozen or so swords can put a dent in Russia and we get those techs.

750BC (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/offa_SG002_BC0750_01.SAV). Score 231.

Preturn: MM Berlin to grow in 3 turn and build an archer in 3 also.

IBT: barb loses to our vet warrior. A barb horse shows up in the north. Polytheism is done.

(1)975BC: Poly to Russia for Map Making+CoL+23g. Poly+44g to England for Math+Philosophy. Philosophy+Math to France for Iron Working+Wheel+2g.

Then I realized I should have asked for France's WM too.

We are at tech parity. We have iron next to Frankfurt, and 2nd iron in the north, 3rd in the west. Horses are a little tricker. One is south to minsk, which Heidelburg is next to. By the way why did we found Heidelburg so aggressively? I switch Heidelburg to temple. Two other horses are pretty far away. I suggest we take out Minsk?

I start min research on Republic.

We have a fortified warrior on a mountain in the west. Why? I wake it up and send to scout.

(2)950BC: vet warrior kills barb horse.

(3)925BC: clears barb camp. Settler factory starts running again.

I sell WM to England for WM+45g. WM to Russia for WM+14g. I think we should prepare to take out Russia.

IBT barb horse promotes our warrior. Another one shows up.

(4)900BC: reg archer kills barb horse.

IBT Russia establish embassy with us. Another barb horse shows up.

(5)875BC: Reg archer kills the horse, still no promotion. We found Stuttgart to claim the 2nd iron.

(6)850BC: ZZZ

(7)825BC: settler due, send to the incense. Leipzig archer->archer. England has Currency.

(8)800BC: a barb warrior and a horse approach our workers on the iron. Move 2 warriors to cover them.

(9)775BC: reg archer clears a barb camp and loses 1-hp. Still no promotion. There is a horse nearby.

IBT iron online.

(10)750BC: We have 413g in bank and are making 33gpt. We can upgrade 7-8 swords next turn (note those warriors around Leipzig). Let's take Moscow from Russia and get those size-1 cities as concession. Minsk has to go.

Russia has HBR. Very cheap to buy though.

I probably am not using workers optimally. There are several workers in the west that we probably should move to our core to clear the jungles because they are working on tiles that we don't need in the near future yet. I just hate moving workers.

750BC (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/offa_SG002_BC0750_01.SAV)

This is the map.

Looks really good! Time to :hammer: ? Only Offa knows for sure. Nice trading. If we take all of Russia we will certainly be leading in tiles.

I am of course itching to play, but I have a big party today with about 40-50 people coming over to my house, and my wife will throw a major strop if I play right now. So I will play tommorrow, hopefully. If you are really keen to get on then I would be happy to skip or swap.

I like the idea of going after Cathy early. I'm a builder by nature, so it would be a good lesson for me.

Let's hook up the Iron and get 'em!

We'll wait for you Offa. Lead this party towards Cathy's demise. Sounds like Microbe has a wad of cash waiting for you to upgrade with and horses are waiting down south to be taken. We're pretty even in tech so we don't even have to keep her around.
Hopefully a couple leaders will transpire to get us an FP and an army win. I think it was spleen that made the call on the Poly gambit. If it was, nice job. Our tech situation is resolved and now we lead the pack with our bigger mass. On to knights! forward Ho!

I don't think the Ply gambit was my idea. I certainly didn't do it on purpose. I think Offa did it.

Note we need more contacts. The north city is building a harbor. Maybe it should get a galley first.

I've played now and just started a war against Russia:

750bc tiny bit of micromanaging. Swap Heidelburg to barracks(!) , pop rush barracks in Bremen.

ibt archer on e coast survives barb horse attack

730bc settler finished. sent to incense in s. Then, nuts, I see that there is already a settler there hidden under a warrior, so Bonn founded next to incense. Settler redirected to found a city near Moscow.

710bc Entertaining news from abroad. The French town of Paris has completed the Pyramids.

690bc Leipzig builds a swordsman but is on zero growth now so switched to a worker.

650 settler finished, sent to coast to build galleys

630 trade for all available maps. Note that this gives all the barb camp positions.

610 barb camp destroyed in S. Swordsman attacking barb next to Bonn wins and is promoted to elite.

590 Massive barb uprising reported near Leipzig. I hope this doesn't mean someone is Medieval on another continent. Check F4 and note that both England and Russia are now up construction and currency. I am pretty sure no one knew construction last turn, although Liz has known currency for a while.
Salzburg is founded close to Moscow. I think relations between Bismark and Cathy are about to turn frosty.

In all the excitement I've stuffed up the settler factory and only had a 4 food surplus last turn. The town was a bit bigger than needed though so I don't think this will slow us down.

570bc Edit: Settler complete in Berlin (I forgot to mention this).

An unnecessary expense: I pay 78g to investigate Moscow: building Oracle but wont be finished for ages. 4 reg spearmen. No improvements (Cathy is my kind of player). We swap maps and declare war.
8 vet swordsmen moved next to Moscow.
ibt London finishes Oracle.

550bc battle of Moscow.

4/4 sword loses to 3/3 spear and inflicts no damage (not a good start)
4/4 sword wins v 3/3 spear and drops 2hp
4/4 sword wins v 3/3 spear redlining himself
4/4 sword loses v 3/3 spear taking 1hp off it
4/4 sword loses v 3/3 spear redlining it
4/4 sword wins v 3/3 spear and promotes to 4/5 elite
4/4 sword loses to 1/3 spear (grrrr) which promotes to 2/5
4/4 sword (last man) wins v 2/5 spear losing 1hp and Moscow is ours.

I think we had some poor luck there with the rng but at least we just managed to get the town. The rest of russia will hopefully be simple.

The russian capital relocates to Minsk. That is Cathy's only size 2 town so it is an obvious next target.

Other priorities: connect up the incense. I haven't done this, partly because I forgot and we are managing on 0 lux but also as we have had a lot of barb molestation in Bonn (the incense town).
Make galleys and send them out. Difficult at the moment as we currently have only one coastal town and that is a 1 shield/turn outfit.

Obviously Cathy won't talk at the moment, but when she does we have to decide whether to take towns or techs from her. As we are currently lagging in techs I would favour taking these.
We want to wrap up with Cathy fairly soon as Joan has built the pyramids for us and it would be rude not to take over the running of this as soon as possible.

NB the min research on republic is currently depending on a scientist in Moscow who from past experience will probably be reassigned to something else by the governotr next turn. So make sure to check that research is still happening (it's very easy to forget this). At present increasing from min research yields little gain but getting republic would be great.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/offa550.jpg


550bc (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/offa_SG002_BC0550_01.SAV)

Let's take Minsk first. What is the tech situation? All other Russian cities aren't that attractive, so maybe tech is better, but it all depends on what it is.

Moscow should switch to temple and pop rush asap to grab the ivory.

And please everybody don't mess up the factory again..as of now try to see if we can delay the shields to align it with the food again.

All workers should be moved to the core and clear jungles.

EDIT: we should send a warrior to scount in the east asap. Also claim those resources.

Let's take Minsk first. What is the tech situation? All other Russian cities aren't that attractive, so maybe tech is better, but it all depends on what it is.

Moscow should switch to temple and pop rush asap to grab the ivory.

And please everybody don't mess up the factory again..as of now try to see if we can delay the shields to align it with the food again.

All workers should be moved to the core and clear jungles.

EDIT: we should send a warrior to scount in the east asap. Also claim those resources.

Re your points:
I agree we should take Minsk. As the only size 2 Russian city left, it is indeed the only one we can take.

The tech position is that russia and england have currency and construction, and therefore are in the middle ages, hence the warning about massive uprisings. Russia is scientific so will have a medieval tech as well. France is backward.

The factory has already been realigned re food surplus, but there is an opportunity for some micromanagement for the next 2 goes as it is going to produce 2 shields more than necessary for the next settler. If a bg square is loaned to Franfurt for 2 turns (berlin working franfurt's non bonus grass) everything will be perfect with no waste at all. I would have adjusted this myself but only just noticed it now. Berlin was oversized anyway and the production of settlers never slowed. I fact despite my minor stuff up Berlin has been producing settlers like clockwork in: 730bc (turn91) , 650bc (turn 95), 570bc (turn 99) and the next one is due (thanks to logging) a turn early in 510bc (turn 102). So we have actually slightly bettered a 4 turn factory.

I don't see why the ivory near Moscow is important. We already have elephants near Cologne. I would just starve Moscow and build workers there. The horses near Minsk, however, are a big priority, as we really need mounted troops if we are to achieve anything resembling a quick win. Connecting up the incense next to Bonn would be good. The were a lot of barbs around there which didn't make that very appealing for workers, but hopefully they are cleaned out now.

I think that most workers are fairly gainfully employed. Clearing forest is more of an immediate priority than jungle just at the moment. That said I have set a lot of workers clearing the jungle, ?too many. I agree that workers, as far as possible, should not be left near our frontiers as we may soon be visited by a lot of barbarians. I have used a lot of workers completing a road to Moscow. more roads to st Petersburg (ie towards France) and to Minsk (ie toward horses) are key priorities.

I did take the precaution of exchanging maps a few times. The AI always know where the camps are so these are clearly seen.

I would love to have a few galleys to try a suicide dash across the ocean, but this is going to take a while. The one coastal town we have is a bust. There is a settler in position up north for another coastal town, which has some forest the could be chopped to speed up a boat. If we built a town near Hannover we might be able to pop rush a galley. We may however, end up having to wait for republic when we can cash rush galleys.

One thing. In a solo game I would definitely have started a FP by now, but after my lighthouse last time, I am trusting to luck with leaders this time. Being militaristic should help our prospects. We already have a couple of elites.

I got it, fellas. I'll play my turns later tonight.

I'm a little unsure on what I should do. I guess I am having a hard time picking up the game since I'm not playing every turn. I've followed along with everything. I guess I'm a little apprehensive because you're all strong players and I'm not.

Which tiles should I start chopping? I'm assuming that I should start with the ones the cities are using first. Is that a good assumption?

I don't think you have much to worry about on the worker front. The obe group is 8 turns away from clearing jungle and the group that clears spice jungle next turn will have to mine and then continue clearing jungle.
You should be more concerned about prosecuting war. Get those horses and look to the floodplain city to grow so you can take it.

Good luck. You're doing fine. Just don't weed. j/k. Have fun.

Which tiles should I start chopping?

If you are unsure, then don't chop any. Leave those to others. Do not chop the forest around our settler factory.

Spleen:
Micromanagement is less important now, but still good to do if you can bear it. I agree that at least one forest should be left near Berlin. Chopping trees has to be timed carefully so as to benefit from the 10 shields. I think I may already have some more forestry going on near the capital.

Strategy for now: Berlin to continue making settlers. Send settlers escorted at all times now as there are a lot of barbs about.

Take Minsk and get horses ASAP. You don't need to divert our entire force to get this as it is likely to have 3 reg spear (at most) defending.

Press on to Petersburg, which is en route to France. Getting the pyramids (Paris) will boost our score a lot, and the French have fur which we want.With luck the English may be our allies when the time comes to attack France.

Extort techs from Russia to get us into middle ages and get a free tech ourselves. Keeping up or getting ahead at tech is the key thing in any strategy. Continue republic research and change government ASAP.

Get leaders. It probably would be a good idea if you consulted with us what to do if you are lucky enough to get one. However, realistically a FP in the former russian territory looks obvious.

Getting a Golden Age is tricky. Clearly we can't wait for Panzers. Leo and Great Library will do it, but building the library ourselves would be a very low priority unless we are awash with leaders. Leo we will definitely want.

Okay. I will play my turns this morning. I hope I don't screw things up for the team too bad.

THE SAVE (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/offa_SG002_BC0350_01.SAV)

Here's what we have after my 10:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/offa_SG002_350BC.JPG

My turn log:
IBT
Lost Warrior in the NW to barb horsemen.

[1]530BC
Moving troops towards Minsk. I think I am going to eliminate Minsk and put a city directly on the horses.
6-8 Swordsmen moving in on Minsk.
I am seeing some automated workers?

[2]510BC
Resistence in Moscow ended.
Got lots of barbs N of Cologne, 6-8 horsemen.
Found Dortmund

[3]490BC
We have barb horsemen all over the place, 15 next to Minsk alone.
Minsk razed. I will be putting a settler on the horses. Have barbs to fight off first.
Next target is Odessa.
Eliminated 2 of the 15.

[4]470BC
Man. I can't believe the barbs. They are all over the place.
I think I need to learn to manage troops better. Some of the Swordsmen that razed Minsk are getting it from the barbs. I don't think it could be avoided, but you guys might know something to help the situation.

[5]450BC
Brandenburg founded.
Took Settler from Cathy. Woohoo!
Still barbs all over the place. Getting in the way of expansion.

[6]430BC
BARBS! BARBS! BARBS!
We had a lot of undefended cities and the barbs have taken a lof of gold from us. Dortmund alone has cost us about 100 gold on it's own. I'm thinking I shouldn't have founded it because the Warrior guarding it wasn't enough.
I've put the research slider at 10%. I couldn't keep Moscow with a scientist because it wanted to riot.

[7]410BC
Not much. Killed a couple barbs and defended Cologne.

[8]390BC
Paris built the Great Wall.
More barb killing.

[9]370BC
Again, killed lots of barbs. We have a few Elite Swordsman now.
The area near where Minsk used to be is finally cleared of barbs. Moving to get it settled.
Dortmund has cost us way too much gold...

[10]350BC
Chinese have built the Great Library.
I had to scatter the Swordsmen around some to help defend against the barbs. We have a group around Heidelberg.


I looked at doing some Diplo, but was unsure about the value of things. I think the next time I take my turns, We need to discuss my moves as I make them. I really think I didn't have a good set of turns.

It looks OK.

Moscow could have kept a scientist. You can just assign all of its citizens as taxmen and one as a scientist.

Re the barbs. I should have said that standard practice is to make sure your treasury is very low, by whatever means are possible (eg buy techs, alliance, upgrades), and then just let them into small towns with no improvements. Not building improvements in the first place helps of course. They can't do you much harm then. Defending everywhere is impractical. Attacking them with vet swords is great though because of promotions. We shouldn't let them slow down our war with russia.

I see a few spearmen are being made, but hopefully not finished. Those guys aren't needed. We should not need any defensive units at any stage during this game barring exceptional emergencies. As a good general rule: if a military unit has more defence than attack you shouldn't build it. Dortmund obviously is supposed to be building galleys.

Our army should being pressing on to Petersburg. We should be building a road to Petersburg. None of the other Russian towns are worth our attention. We want the pyramids and for them we have to get to the French. Wars have to be focused and fast, although hordes of barbs can be disconcerting. The french building the great wall is very annoying. We must be quick. If Paris is defended by pikes our war will stall. One good thing is that Petersburg will probably have time to culturally expand by the time we take it, so it won't autoraze. Barbslinger was right about that in sgotm1. We can make peace with Cathy after we take Petersburg.

We need to connect up the horses ASAP and then switch all military production to horses.

I did have a few cities building spearmen. The good news is that none of them finished before the end of my turns. :)

Should I have let the barbs go? They did take my attention from going after Russia.

How many Russian cities are we going to leave before we sue for peace?

I was trying to get down there to those horses, but that's where the barbs were. It took my 10 to get rid of them.

Should I have let the barbs go? They did take my attention from going after Russia.
Ideally perhaps but it wouldn't have been easy to manage. At least we have a few elites.



How many Russian cities are we going to leave before we sue for peace?



Only Petersburg seems important to me, and that only because it is en route to France. Russia is broken now and not worth wasting too much time on. All Cathy's size 1 no culture towns will autoraze so aren't worth attacking right now, except to intimidate cathy into giving up more for peace.

Gozpel will know what to do next anyway.

Spleen: I suspect you aren't talking to the AI every turn. If you can't trust yourself to do this ( and it is pretty difficult) you should download Ainwood's utility which does this automatically. I replayed these turns for fun and there were some great deals on offer.

Pressing on with the attack rather than getting diverted by the barbs would have worked rather well. ;)

As a good general rule: if a military unit has more defence than attack you shouldn't build it.

This rules out pikemen, musketmen, rifles and infantry. ;)

I don't quite see why we have such rules, but at lower levels maybe, and in this case I do agree spearmen aren't needed.

I think we can press on Russia so we could get a few size-1 cities for concession. Or turn to France to get Pyramids.

Spleen: I suspect you aren't talking to the AI every turn. If you can't trust yourself to do this ( and it is pretty difficult) you should download Ainwood's utility which does this automatically. I replayed these turns for fun and there were some great deals on offer.

Pressing on with the attack rather than getting diverted by the barbs would have worked rather well. ;)

I will get ainwood's utility. I know I need to talk to the other civs every turn. It something I can't do when I play solo either. I'm just know to the put were I check F1 at the end of every turn. I need to add F4 to the end. :)

It is tedious because of all of the clicking you have to do to get the information you need.

I will check out ainwood's utility.

This rules out pikemen, musketmen, rifles and infantry. ;)




Rules are of course made to be broken ;) . You may have point with infantry though as those guys are pretty good; I haven't got that far in any recent game, and don't expect to in this one. Pikes, muskets and rifles are unnecessary at normal difficulty levels ( ie lower than sid) if you are playing aggressively. We won't need any in this game.

I fear we may be drifting behind other teams with our leisurely approach and getting the pyramids ASAP is very important. If we have a bit of luck with leaders we could be back in the hunt.

I hope you don't think I am being negative. This game is going well although it could have been exceptional if we had been bolder. I find these games fascinating, and they are definitely sharpening up my game.

It is tedious because of all of the clicking you have to do to get the information you need.

I will check out ainwood's utility.

I also find it tedious (try it with 10+ AI). I actually asked about this in the faq thread and some kind souls suggested ways to make it easier. One is to leave something on the table, eg territory map and exit the screen by pressing escape. Thet way you go straight back to the diplo screen when you click on the civ in F4. Ainwood's utility is great but seems to crash a fair bit.

It can be very tedious, but usually it is also rewarding to go through the trading screens.

Btw, wife and daughter must've had worse withdrawals than I had without a computer. They downloaded every stupid thing they could get their grubby little hands on and screwed up the can completely. I wondered why internet was so slow ) took me up to 10 mins to load a page here) and checked with AdAware and found 64 stupid miners, dialers and junk. Still the net was slow and I remembered it was a month since I updated AdAware and sure...another 58 items showed up. This computer was completely clogged with those irritating thingies.

Ah well, at least I can continue from here now I think (can't even be bothered to whinge about this in the SG forums, can anyone tell people there that I'm alive?)

I still have a lot of cleaning to do, but I will take my turns here, since they are fairly quick.

So I got it.

*swearword of all kinds*

After removing all those things, I can't start Civ! "DSound.dll cause external error...."

I found the problem and had to Dl DirectX again (which took me a good afternoon)

It seems to work now, I still have a couple of glitches that just makes me crazy, I might go for them before I play the game....

Just so you know. :(

*swearword of all kinds*

After removing all those things, I can't start Civ! "DSound.dll cause external error...."

I found the problem and had to Dl DirectX again (which took me a good afternoon)

It seems to work now, I still have a couple of glitches that just makes me crazy, I might go for them before I play the game....

Just so you know. :(

Civ not working! :mad: What a terrible thing. I hope you return soon to full function as we need your expertise here to get this rolling again.

"as we need your expertise"

What a piece of rubbish Offa!
You're the warmonger, I'm the builder.

Gladly I see most sites on my proposed dotmap was followed, I couldn't ask for more :)
When it comes to warfare, we should really ask Offa...

But I'm flexible, and will do my best.

I will take careful checks on diplo and progress slowly (our troops are quite spread out)

Tomorrow.

You two just play and stop flattering each other. ;)

gozpel are you able to play? If not, Barbslinger take it..

Pre-turn - The settler S of Berlin will be attacked by two barbhorses next turn, send a sword to protect him.
Switch working tiles in a few cities to improve growth and/or production.
Change builds barracks, swords and workers.

330bc - The two barbhorses decide to attack Leipzig, and the defending sword promotes to elite
Cologne worker -> barracks
We kill 3 offending barbhorses

We have 2 settlers near Heidelburg, I need to wait a turn before moving them because of the barbs.

Warrior next to Smolensk will be attacked by archer next turn, he tries his luck first and dies.

310bc - Moscow worker -> barracks
Whip galley in Dortmund for 20 shields

290bc - Konigsberg sword -> sword
Stuttgart galley -> worker
Dortmund galley -> worker

Kill russian archer with elite

New Berlin founded next to horses -> barracks

Dortmund will be sacked next turn by barb, so I buy a worker from England for 104g.

270bc - Barb steal 14g from Dortmund
Berlin settler -> settler
Leipzig sword -> sword

Take out a barbcamp and get 25g

New Leipzig founded -> barracks

Move out 5 swords from Moscow, destination St Petersburg
There's a decent sized island up north.

250bc - A galley survives barbgalley attack
Hamburg sword -> worker

2 swords are next to Odessa, to attack next turn
Send a few swords towards Tblisi

230bc - Russia wants to talk, no thanks
Bonn barracks -> worker

Swords try their luck on Odessa
First sword 2/4 kill reg spear
second sword dies doing 2 hp damage on reg spear

210bc - Hamburg worker -> sword
Konigsberg sword -> sword

Japan completes the Colossus

New Hamburg founded -> worker

Troops in place to assault St Petes and Tblisi

190bc - Berlin settler -> settler
Frankfurt sword -> sword
Stuttgart worker -> galley
Salzburg barracks -> sword

Assault on St Petersburg:
Elite sword 4/5 kills reg spear
elite sword 2/5 kills reg spear
elite sword 4/5 kills reg spear and take the city and 3 slaves

Assault on Tblisi:
elite sword dies against elite spear, taking 4 hp
elite sword kills the spear and take the city

I could take peace with Russia for Odessa, Construction, HBR, 54g and WM

170bc - Leipzig sword -> sword
Nuremburg worker -> worker

France starts the Lighthouse

Whack barbcamp and get 25g

150bc - Galley survives 3 barbgalley attacks and goes elite
Messed up Konigsberg, which riots

Sword takes Odessa and a slave

Koberg founded -> worker

Next player, time for peace with Russia, if that is what we want, they are down to 3 cities so we might as well finish them off. We get a couple of techs, which after a trade with France (they're still missing Poly) will get us into Middle age. We will learn Republic next turn and we should go towards Chivalry after that.
If we trade the missing techs for Republic, we can see how the free techs turned out for us and Russia.

Next turn we can also switch gov, I don't really like Republic if we're going for quick domination and my vote would be on Monarchy.

I had 3-4 crashes due to Dsound.dll, I thought that was fixed...so I have to dl directx again. I hope the save isn't messed up :(

Also it takes forever to connect to the forums, I fear I have to do a reformat if I don't find the problem. My GOTM file was corrupt and I threw it away, so no fastest domination for me this month.

I suggest we sign peace and get cities for concession. These Russian cities are still size 1, right? Getting them from concession would bring more score.

Republic seems fine to me, but I'm OK with Monarchy also (is it available?).

They don't want to give cities for peace, one size 2 and one size 1 with luxes within borders. Monarchy is available by trade when we learn Republic next turn.

If we're not worried about warweariness later, go for Republic.

Leave one city to it and ask for techs. We may need its free tech. Then come back in 20 turns. Eliminating it would probably speed up the tech pace? Not what we want.

I would make peace now and get as many techs as possible, a town or 2 would be nice but isn't as important. A trade with France to enter the middle ages will be good.

Republic is fine for wars as long as you don't get bogged down. I don't see any need for Monarchy.

Lets take the french out now. We badly need those pyramids.

I would like to get mil trad ASAP, but I suppose chiv is OK. We should be able to conquer with knights but cavalry are better.

Mil Trad is probably 50 turns away from where we sit and knights do great, at least in my games.

Republic is spoken for by two players, I back down and agree to make it easier for slinger, it's not a big deal. And we won't be bogged down :)

Btw, I forgot to mention that horses will be connected in a 2-3 turns. The continent is pretty big and we need movement rather than strength soon enough.

I suggest a turnset or two to gather as many swords we can near France and then start building horses only, which we will aim for England, Chivalry or not.

We can disconnect iron and build a squadron of warrior and upgrade or continue on the path we're on.

Our worker force is getting "there" and we lack galleys due to our start position.

I agree that knights are probably OK, esp as this is only monarch level. I have been struck however that better players manage to get to mil trad amazingly quickly and then roll over the AI. I am very keen to try to duplicate their efforts, as it seems to be the way to achieve very early finishes. My previous attempts to do this have been very lame as it took me too long to research and my conquests got stalled.

Once we get horses we should build only mounted troops. As it is, our unit support may be onerous as a Republic, so we need all of our troops to be effective.

If possible, it would be nice if england would ally with us against France.

I just returned from a trip to LA and the Staples Center watching the Lakers-Wolves Game 3. I'll play tonight if I'm not too tired. Sorry for the delay. I am up right? Our empire has grown and it looks like more towns will help.

I'll have to play this tomorrow. I want to apologize for the delay. A friend from San Jose came down with Laker tix Tuesday and it was a 2 day extravaganza. We are also putting together a party for my son for getting out of Marine bootcamp. I'm back on track and will be completing all my SG's tonight and Sat morniing. If anyone wants to swap that would be a nice option too. I'm up in about 5 different SG's.

I'm able to play tonight so I'd like to swap with you. Take your time and complete this during the weekend. ;)

Got it.

Thanks Microbe! Looks like one of us will need to write a summary when we get to the MA.

Preturn: I make peace with Russia and get Construction+Currency+HBR+39g+WM.

Russia/England have Engineering and we get Monotheism. ;) I don't trade for it yet.

IBT Republic in, I revolt immediately and draw a 6-turn anarchy!

(1)130BC: Republic to England for Engineering+Monarchy+15g+WM. Road acrossing rivers would be nice to have.
(2)110BC: nothing.
(3)90BC: ZZZ
IBT England starts Great Lighthouse.
(4)70BC: ZZZ
(5)50BC: incense is online.
IBT our galley is sunk by barbs.
(6)30BC: ZZZ
IBT we are a Republic!
(7)10BC: horses also online. raise sci to get Feudalism in 7 turns. Switch swords to horses.
Build an embassy with France: size 5, 2 spears building Colosseum.
(8)10AD: France enters Middle Ages too. I declare on her.
(9)30AD: more movement so won't attack across river.
(10)50AD:
elite sword 2/3 kills reg spear
elite sword 1/3 kills reg spear
Orleans is ours and we capture a settler.

elite sword 4/5 kills elite spear.

6 sword march to Paris. Let's take the Pyramids and Great Wall! 6 _should_ be enough considering there were only 2 spears in Paris. Sorry if I was a bit hasty. We have horses coming soon as reinforcement. Pillage the French horse first so they won't be able to build horsemen (they don't have iron).

The redlined galley is going to the east spices spot for a suicide run.

Feudalism is due in 4.

Settler factory can do 4-turn itselves without MM.

Should we prebuild for Sun Tzu's? Or wait for leader?

Score 459.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM2-50AD.jpg

Thanks Microbe! Looks like one of us will need to write a summary when we get to the MA.

What kind of format is needed for the summary? I can't find anywhere it's mentioned except the beginning of the spoiler thread, and it doesn't give much detail at all. I didn't read the rest of that thread to find out.

Sounds good. :goodjob:
Let's take out the French. Are any more trades possible? I would hold out for leaders. FP is our main target. SunTze would be great of course but at least barracks are fairly cheap for us to build. We can buy galleys now rather than wait for them to build.

We can finally read the spoiler thread. It sounds like almost everyone had a settler factory. Most of the others teams did better than us with early research but we have caught up with the AI now anyway. They all entered Middle Ages a long time before us, but we could have been there ourselves a long time ago if we made peace with Russia, so this may not mean much. No one seems to have tried an ultra early war.

Mad-bax says that this start was analysed by Cracker in his opening plays article so that will be worth a read to see how well we did. It seems he added the deer to the start which is a pity as it reduces the comparability of our game with the original gotm8 if there was originally no possible 4-turn factory.

I posted a very concise summary in the spoiler thread.

Barbslinger, are you OK to play now or do you want me to play early?

Offa, yes could we swap? I still have my family here but leaving this evening. I'm hoping to play the Overlord SG sometime today and hopefully play this tonight late. If you can play this afternoon or early evening we can continue along. Sorry everyone for the past 5-6 days. It was my friend from San Jose with the Laker game and now a house full of people with a large party set up and cleanup Friday and Saturday. I even missed 2 days work doing all this. I'll be back on track after this evening.

Barbslinger: It's late here (Oxfordshire) now (midnight) so I don't want to start tonight. If you can play later today that would be great. If you can't play until tommorrow night then I will play first.

Microbe, the save. Verifying one more time. Wow. It's not there. I'm playing Sling3 now.

All the saves are in the maintenance thread: SGOTM2 save files and scoring data (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm_submission_list.php). Anyway it's here (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/offa_SG002_AD0050_01.SAV).

Team Offa – 50AD – SGOTM2 - Germans
Sorry Microbe, I forgot about that.

50AD – I’m going to opt for 1 less turn on fuedal to up the lux tax for a lot more happy faces for score. It was –64gpt for Feudal in 4 now it is –48gpt for feudal in 5. Taking over new lands helps a lot too. Russia’s ex Moscow swaps to worker and a starve to get rid of te 3-2 russian to German ratio.

IT – Hanover – Horse>Horse, Brandenburg(no road yet, but Rax there) Warrior> Warrior.

[1] 70AD – I retreat 2 french horses and move in. A barb horse is killed in the deep south by an exploring archer. Some of the workers I send back towards the core to upgrade those lands. Rush a worker in St. pete to send a Russian to the fields.

IT – The Russian worker stayed around and now we have 2 russians in St.Pete. Hamburg-Horse>Horse, Bonn-Horse>Horse. Injured French horses run to Paris.

[2] 90AD – Hannover with the floodplains goes to temple because it is running out of tiles. Slide in next to Paris. Moving workers. Are we really at war? J/k

IT – Berlin – Settler> Market with a chop and a rush coming. Perhaps a double chop. Moscow-Wkr>Wkr, Munich-Sword> Horse.

[3] 110 - Paris is no pusover going 2-2 losing an elite. More troops moving in in next 2-3 turns. It will fall. Escorting a southbound settler. Working the core. Some barbs are about. Have to bait a town empty and put a lone warrior on workers to hope the horse diverts to empty town 3 tiles away.

IT – The 2 horses that went to Paris came out hot and lost 1 round and on a last hp beat our sword. The barb horse took the bat though. A couple of workers and Russians are building HG! :lol: Hope they get it for us.

[4] 130AD – Easily kill the barb horse with the sword that had went out for a bait-walk to the fringe of town. Stupid barbs. Regroup the troops after killing the offending 1 hp horse, across a river out of spite, and will form up for attack. 1 hp galley that was heading S to ports unknown decides to take a right(east) and look for other lands. Sci-sli drops to get Feudal with 10gpt coming. Chivalry or invention towards cavs? Hmmm… Bee-line baby. Chivalry in trade when England gets it. We are up in tech and pulling away.

IT – Frankfurt-Horse> Horse, Tblise-Wkr>Wkr, New Berlin-Rax>Horse. Galley sinks to my dismay. Invention in 22 at –6gpt. More towns for unit support would help.

[5] 150AD – Moving a settler out East and just killed a barb camp.

IT – Bremen – Horse> Horse.

[6] 170 – Kill a last barb and move settler into position. Hannover was ready to riot and the new scientist in town can get invention down to 20 instead of 21.

IT – A couple of barbs rear their head. Nuremberg- Rax>Horse, Odessa-Wkr> Settler, Koberg-Wkr>Wkr.

[7] 190AD – New Frankfurt settled. Set to rax due to lack of food for now. Attack on Paris starts flawed with a retreat and a lose from horses giving a reg promo to vet. Next horse takes the vet down. RNG games. Makes me laugh. Sword wins going elite. Sword wins. E sword wins. E sword wins. 3/5 sword wins and takes Paris. Granary, PYRAMIDS and great wall are ours. Whoopee!!!!. Kill an archer that watched it happen right next door. Nice year but no GL’s. I would really like a FP soon. Those Pyramids will jack our score though. New Munich founded, set to worker. Once Paris is completely secure, sell the granary in Berlin.

IT – I don’t recall.

[8] 210 – Move the troops into Paris. Flip has to be low with 1 pop and no cultural pressure. Knock off another barb camp near New Munich. Berlin wood choppers uncover a bg and Berlin is once again the top shield producing town at a lowly 9spt. Have a horse heading north to barb hunt.

IT – 3 Frenchies show up. Hamburg-H>H, Bonn-H>H, Brandenburg-War>War.

[9] 230AD – Kill 2 with elites and retreat the other. Damn I want a leader. Horse heading north kills it’s first barb. Looking for the camp.

IT – One of the elites that made a kill outside Paris survives the lone French counter attack. No GL again. Barb horses rolling in.

[10] Kill a few barbs. I think I lost a turn.

Good luck Offa. Good leader hunting. A FP would really speed this conquest along. The forest chop and road will happen after the market. I’m thinking it’s time for more cash. Up to you whether to return it to settler duty. I have a couple outlying towns making settlers. Cash is becoming a problem on our bee-line to cavs. I was thinking about chivalry but we are not making enugh cash to upgrade horses. We will when cavs come around. Trade for chivalry when you see the chance. No one discovered anything beyond us yet so we are sitting on top of the tech pile. I think a FP will improve the economy a lot. We have 29 towns and another core is needed.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM2offa250AD.jpg

The save. I'll post on the maintenance thread too.Good luck with a leader Offa. You're due one after my run.

Goot job. Any news on the galley that I wished for a suicide sail to the east? We need to meet others asap.

Our score is rising fast.

Goot job. Any news on the galley that I wished for a suicide sail to the east? We need to meet others asap.

Our score is rising fast. Turn 4 and the IT after, not good news. Lot of bubbles going down.

Well, then, let's build more and try again..

Nuts!

In all that confusion I presumed the swap was going ahead and I just played the same 10 turns as Barbslinger, with slightly different results. I may have spoilered myself as a result. The main difference is that I cash rushed a few ships and did sail further. I started on chiv after feudalism, but I think going for Mil trad instead is prob at least as good. My war with France had gone in a similar way, but was a little further on. I had no leaders in 8 elite wins.

What should I do now: play on from Barbslinger's save or skip? I don't think my extra knowledge will matter too much as I only intend to sail in the same direction as I did the first time. Barbslinger has committed us to a strong science game towards mil trad and navigation and this suits me fine.

Offa, what kind of spoiler information you mean? I've asked people to keep sailing east and if you already met someone I think that's expected. :) From what I read what you played was pretty much orthogonal to Babslinger's so it shouldn't matter whether it's 10 turns earlier or not.

Use your best judgement, but I prefer you still play.

Barbslinger: It's late here (Oxfordshire) now (midnight) so I don't want to start tonight. If you can play later today that would be great. If you can't play until tommorrow night then I will play first. Wow, bad bit of luck. Well, I don't know what Mad-Bax would have to say about it. I would hate to disqualify or incur a penalty. Maybe you should PM him or someone the staff to give us a ruling.

I think mad-bax is on holidays so I PMed karasu as I believe he is in charge now. I would be pretty keen to play on as I don't think I would do anything different.

The whole game looks subtly different from how I left it, which would make it very intriguing to try.

I think you can keep on playing, folks.
What little spoiling took place is not going to make all that difference IMHO -and you are just too gentlemen to take even the smallest advantage in an unfair way :)

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/offa_SG002_AD0350_01.SAV

250ad rush Dortmund's galley. We only have 2 coastal towns in this version.
I change a number of towns to settlers
4/5 elite sword kills the 1/4 french horse outside Paris.
Rush barracks in Paris (I was intending to use this to upgrade vet swords).

270 attack Lyons with an elite sword and we have a leader, Barbarosa!!!!!

280 take Lyons(and fur). I want a FP with Barbarosa and I am rushing a settler for this. In the mean time I have a load of elites in france and almost nothing else so I am reluctant to attack.

300 one galley makes it across the ocean ( the other one sinks) and meets the japs and an Indian galley. They have lit but are otherwise backward.

We give the japs monarchy and 15g for lit, comm with China and their WM.
New Munich built between Moscow and Petersburg and FP rushed with leader. May be not ideal but we want to get fishing for another leader. We need to really pack in the towns next to the FP to get the benefit of rcp.

Back to war v the French: 2 elite wins and one loss.

320 2 elite horse lost. one to a barb attack and one to the french.
learn invention and start gunpowder, we are now well up on tech.

350 take Marsaille. Only one defender! Fell to an elite sword who is redlined.

France will now make peace and give us 3 towns. I think we should take Bescacon and then make a deal. We could then wipe out the Russian remnant which would help the lands around our fp. More leaders would be nice. I have been neglecting military to build up infrastructure (a bit alien to me). We still have a lot of settling to do. Once we get cavalry and caravels we will wipe out the rest easily. I haven't traded maps or contacts between continents, but we have a full WM ourselves.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/offa350.jpg

Beautiful job! FP and the other continent that we can be a middleman broker to. This should be over soon after cavs. No trading down that tree. Should not take long with the cavs and would be nice to swing a deal for chivalry when it comes in.

Great, we know the other continent! [dance] But there is still one civ we haven't met.

Let's NOT trade contacts until Navigation (that's also the tech for sailing across ocrean in PTW, right?).

barbslinger -
microbe
offa - just played
spleen1015 - up
gozpel - on deck

EDIT: our new core is rather tightly packed. Are we going to re-found some of those cities?

Also let's discuss what we should do with next leaders. I suggest Leo's then Sun Tzu's.

Great, we know the other continent! [dance] But there is still one civ we haven't met.

Let's NOT trade contacts until Navigation (that's also the tech for sailing across ocrean in PTW, right?).

barbslinger -
microbe
offa - just played
spleen1015 - up
gozpel - on deck

EDIT: our new core is rather tightly packed. Are we going to re-found some of those cities?

Also let's discuss what we should do with next leaders. I suggest Leo's then Sun Tzu's.

The new core is deliberately tightly packed, perhaps a little too aggressively in retrospect, as an RCP of 3 would also have worked. Towns crowded around a FP will be fairly uncorrupt. I wanted to get a productive set of towns ASAP to speed up research.

I agree with Leo's. Sun Tzu is relatively unimportant. The great library would also be nice as I think (not sure though) that together with Leo it would give us a golden age. The tech benefit of the great library would be negligible though. Copernicus would also trigger a golden age and would be a better bet if we don't get leaders first.

We need to try to fish for more leaders with all our elite swords before they are hopelessly obsolete. The English, if they have pikes, may be too tough for swords but the Russians and French and soft english targets will give chances. We also need to claim all the empty space to help our score, and to develop the new core.

We shouldn't trade contacts of course. Our maps are also very valuable at present and shouldn't be traded for less than a fortune. None of the AI has anything good to offer at the moment. Maybe we should start a war on the other continent with a few tech gifts. We are prob strong enough to re-negotiate peace in the second continent for tribute, but should hold off until someone has something we need.

The Great Library has already been built by China.

We probably should start some prebuild also. We are so advanced that we can build everything ourselves. So use leaders for the most expensive wonders. ;)

The Great Library has already been built by China.



Um. I didn't notice that. All the more reason not to trade contacts. If necessary we could take it off their hands later on, but it would probably be a bit late to trigger a golden age. Apart from triggering a golden age it would be pretty useless for us.

Re prebuilds I was quite tempted to try for the hanging gardens, just for score.

I like the war on the other continent plan. Dogpile the weakest against the big dog over there.

Re prebuilds I was quite tempted to try for the hanging gardens, just for score.

AI has started it quite some time. Would the score be ours if we just capture it?

I usually don't build this wonder - pretty useless. I think there are much better wonders to go for..and I don't really want this to be a wonder-building game. ;)

After Russia we should turn to England. We need more cities for score.

AI has started it quite some time. Would the score be ours if we just capture it?

I usually don't build this wonder - pretty useless. I think there are much better wonders to go for..and I don't really want this to be a wonder-building game. ;)



I've never built the hanging gardens before, but I was a bit envious of the other teams scores, (and perhaps a little too influenced by my recent foray into Civ2). The comparison of scores is a little unnerving: normally I would just focus on finishing early and not worry at all about the running score. I agree that if the AI has started the Hanging Gardens we shouldn't bother. It would be great if the English built it for us. At least we have acquired the Pyramids: that's the best wonder for score.

Frankly after the Lighthouse last month I was pretty keen to wait for leaders this month. Playing a militarist civ makes leaders more likely anyway, and we have loads of elite units. Building even Leo's will take ages and is probably not worth it as another leader is fairly likely. Triggering a golden age would be useful though, as playing the whole game without one would be an awful waste.

Are we playing for conquest or domination, or does it not matter?

Excellent job! :)

Even if I would've headed for Chivalry right away, I won't whinge. The contacts and the leader certainly help us now.

I think after we get to Miltrad and begin our real conquesting towards domination or conquest we should get Newtons or capture the Great Library while taking out China for a GA. Having a GA just after upgrading to cavs would make the game much shorter.

gozpel, Spleen hasn't visited the forum for one whole week. Could you take it tonight?

EDIT:

barbslinger - on deck
microbe
offa - just played
spleen1015 - skipped unless shows up in the last minute
gozpel - up

Lucky I stumbled in here :)

I got it, but won't play until tomorrow...have to play two other SG's first.

Or you can play this one first. Looks like we need some :whipped: :)

Pre-turn - Fix some minor stuff, everything looks good.
Lots of infrastructure building going on.

Move science slider to 90% at -99 gpt and cut research by 3 turns.

Check diplo, France will give 3 cities for peace. Sure.
Peace removes some warweariness and a couple of cities can work with full crew.

Since GLib is already built, I sell Lit to France for 63g, Russia for 62g and England for 45g.

360AD - Japan completes the Lighthouse.

Berlin settler -> settler
New Cologne founded -> worker

Warrior on island pop hut and get barbs.

370AD - Leipzig settler -> horse
Brandenburg horse -> library

New Hannover founded -> worker

380AD - Konigsberg aqueduct -> settler
Hannover marketplace -> settler
New Hamburg settler -> worker
New Bremen founded -> worker

Fumbled Berlin, fix that so settler next turn.

Take out barbcamp and get 25g.

Sell TM to India and China for 55g together.

Lower luxtax to zero and only 4 cities objects, they get taxmen for a turn or two.
Rush worker in Besancon for 32g. And in Marseilles for 28g.

390AD - Warrior on island dies against barb.

Berlin settler -> settler
Hamburg market -> settler
Marseilles worker -> barracks
Besancon worker -> barracks

We will learn Gunpowder next turn with 4g to spare :)

400AD - We learn Gunpowder -> Chemistry in 9t at 60% for now.
We have one source of saltpeter.

New Stuttgart founded -> warrior
New Bonn founded -> worker

410AD - St Petersburg library -> barracks
Konigsberg settler -> horse
Odessa settler -> worker
New Heidelburg warrior -> worker

New Salzburg founded -> worker
New Dortmund founded -> barracks

Take out 2 barbcamps and get 50g.

420AD - Berlin settler -> horse
Moscow library -> settler
New Orleans settler -> barracks
Leipzig settler -> horse
Hamburg settler -> horse
Munich market -> horse
New Frankfurt worker -> barracks

430AD - Hannover settler -> horse
Bremen horse -> horse
Bonn settler -> horse
New Hamburg worker -> barracks
New Munchen settler -> court
New Munich library -> barracks

440AD - Konigsberg horse -> horse
Frankfurt market -> horse
Heidelburg court -> settler
Cologne settler -> horse
Brandenburg library -> horse
New Berlin settler -> worker
New Konigsberg settler -> worker

New Brandenburg founded -> worker
Berlin 2 founded -> warrior
Leipzig 2 founded -> worker

450AD - St Petersburg barracks -> horse
Avignon worker -> barracks
New Bremen worker -> barracks

Hamburg 2 founded -> worker
Konigsberg2 founded -> worker
Frankfurt2 founded -> worker

Chemistry in 2 turns.

I left some units hanging, if next player wants to declare on the russians again :)

Yikes, I settled a dozen cities or more, we are spawning like devils.
I plopped down settlers everywhere they could and did some aggressive settling as well.

Fortunately, we only need another dozen settlers or so, then we can really concentrate on military. But I already started horses in quite a few towns so when the time comes, we are prepared.

Sorry, no pic.

Yikes, I settled a dozen cities or more, we are spawning like devils.

I can see that. :lol:

barbslinger - up
microbe - on deck
offa -
spleen1015 -
gozpel - just played

Ah well, since Barbslinger can't find it. :)

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/offa_SG002_AD0450_01.SAV

Ah well, since Barbslinger can't find it. :)

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/offa_SG002_AD0450_01.SAV

He never found it!

It looks good. More expansion and destroy Russia etc.
A pity that Japan has the Lighthouse; getting across to the other island is going to require more techs, or a lot of suicide galleys (from the west coast looks best). Still we have plenty to do on our own continent yet.

Should we hold on military tradition and beeline to Magnetism?

Guys, I not going to be able to play until Sunday afternoon. My boss gave my room at the Hyatt on Huntington beach and my wife and I are leaving in the AM. We will be there all day Saturday with her in the Spa and I'll hit the beach with a cold one. Dinner, drinks and dancing at night.
If Microbe could swap with me it would help move the game along.

Barbslinger, how about us swap permanently? Since last time we were also swapped.

I got it.

Roster:
microbe - up
barbslinger - on deck
offa -
spleen -
gozpel -

Save: 550AD (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/offa_SG002_AD0550_01.SAV)

preturn: I declare on Russia. Losing one horse and capture Smolensk.

(1)460AD: horse kills a spear in Sevastopol and promites.

IBT England starts Leo. Japan starts Sun Tzu's.

(2)470AD: Capture Kiev without loss and get 2 slave workers.

(3)480AD: lose 1 horse and 1 sword, we capture Sevastopol. Japan founds a city on our continent! What should we do?

Found Munich2.

(4)490AD: Capture Yakusk without loss. Found Heidelburg 2.

I declare on Japan, lose one horse and we raze the Japanese town.

(5)500AD: movement.

IBT a few libraries completed. China completes Hanging Gardens.

(6)510AD: I decide to start a prebuild in Frankfurt. We'll still have a long way to get to the other continent and a wonder or two could get more score.

Sverdlovsk turns out to be tough. 5 horses attack, 3 vet retreat, and 2 elite die!

We capture Vladivostok.

Found Nerumberg 2.

(7)520AD: Cologne 2 founded.

(8)530AD: Capture Sverdlovsk. Russia is destroyed.

OK, next up is England or France? I'd like to take England first, but we need to gather more forces. We share a very long border.

Hannover 2 founded.

IBT We get palace expansion. Metallury->Military Tradition.

(9)540AD: Found Bremen 2. Found Stuttgart 2.

(10)550AD: ZZZ

I think we need to hit England. Ally France just to make sure we have only one front. There are a lot of jungle between England and us in the north front, so I think we can invade from south-east, starting from Coventry and Canterbury.

We can wait until Military Tradition is done, and get some cavalry. 5 turns to go.

Japan doesn't want to talk yet, but will soon I think. We can make peace asap.

Sorry no leader.

I'm really looking forward to this. Sunday when I get get back from Huntington it is on! Nice work Microbe. Quote from you, :Japan founds a city on our continent! What should we do?" I'm thinking without looking that they must have the GLight. With thier samurai advantage, if and when they get there, they have to be next. Our boats our the only drawback. England is next as soon as Cavs come in and then it will be max cash for upgrades. I'm thinking Offa will have all the fun.
Our score has got to be climbing. Not everyone has the pyramids. Giddy-up!!

BTW, Offa, if you want to swap until sunday afternoon when I get back it is fine by me. One of us will set the oter up for English war. Cavs will be nice.

Barbslinger. I'll wait for you. I am busy Civ-wise with COTM1 at present.

Will try to play tonight. Planning a marathon with this and Sling3 and Hndy03.

I heard from a source that barbslinger is busy with Tupperware rallies.

I really don't think stuff like that should hold up the game?

I'm really sorry about the delay guys. I just finished SLing3 and Overlords and it is too late to get started. I will play tomorrow when I get home from work.

No worries mate, I've been overstuffed a couple of times in SG's myself, so I understand. And as we seem to be down to 4 players, we have to live with some delays. :)

Team Offa – 550AD – SGOTM2 - Germans

Preturn – Well our power graph is very impressive. I’m thinking war from here on out once we get cavs. Looking forward to London, it has the Oracle which doubles the effect of all temples which means happy faces for score. London also is building SunTzu. If we are in a war with them I would suggest we not take London until SunTzu is settled as to whom gets it. It may not even matter because if were knocking on London’s door we will be through warring on our continent for the most part. Go through all the cities and swap a few builds from libs to rax or horse except around ex France so that we can claim the tiles.
Try to swap for scientists to get MT to 4 but no dice. Return to tax. Adjust some MM on out of control growth towns. Looks like we own all the continental salt so England should fall easily with cav. Plus she still lacks gunpowder. Due to this I send some horses up to the north to guard the Hannover 2 salt. Looks like we make 285gpt if we turn the research off after MT for helping to rush cavs.
Open up an embassy in Dehli. They have Leos in 32. Temple, Library. Horses, Iron and 4 luxs. 2 each of pike, spear, warrior and settler. They will go to war with Japan for 24g and 2gpt. Bejing embassy reveals rax, lib, GL and HG. 4 settlers. Pike, 6 spear and a sword. Iron and horses. They will go to war for 30g. I take Mao’s deal because I think he will sign Ghandi on. If he doesn’t in a few turns I will. Ghandi is in the middle so he is involved whether he likes it or not. I’m not too concerned about the French. We can get them at our leisure. Once MT comes in it is England time.

IT – The friends and/or enemies went by so fast I’ll have to see who it was. Turn those on to animate. I can’t figure out how you guys play with that off. I would miss a landing or a sneak, especially with a large empire like this. Built raxs horses and set to horses primarily. Amusket is being built in Berlin with it’s 12spt * 5 =60.

[1] 560AD – Start moving a group of workers that were working in France back towds our FP core that still needs work. Those towns have a road network, mines won’t help and they will make only 1 spt. the core still needs work and roads to an English front will be needed. Hamburg, Leipzip, Frankfurt and Konigsburg still need jungle cut too. Those are first ring cities fighting for tiles. IMO, improve with mines in cities that can produce something. Road network the rest and provide enough food. Core cities are #1 though. On that note, I turn Hannover into a 2 turn worker farm. Found Cowtown in the SE.

IT – Nothing of importance. No threats that I cold see.

[2] 570AD – Found Canal street in the south. The AI got both guns and chivalry at the IT. England has an archer in the new lands that Canal Street acquired but I can’t kick her out. I’d really like some war happiness with her. Lower the sci-sli a notch to still get MT in 3. Rush a rax in Yakuskt for upgrading. IT is in the north. Suiciding the galley back towards our lands. He is doing no good over there and costing upkeep.

IT – A French settler and spear are cutting across our territory 2 S of Moscow. No worries. Horses are mounting up.

[3] 580AD – Galley made it. English archer vamoosed out of our lands and is stranded.

IT – Archer moved back in and is threatening now. An English setller/spear comes into our lands.

[4] 590AD – Move a horse over to help with archer. Watching AI settlers. They look like slaves to me.

IT – MT is in. Set to Theo in 12 @ 20% making+204gpt. Have to get to navigation soon. As soon as England is in hand we turn up the burners again. It could have been had in 4 at 50%. Check that. Single scientist to make 291gpt and get these boys upgraded at 100g each.

[5] Upgrade our first cav. FP Core tiling is coming around giving some MM play. 2 jugles clearing over next 2 turns to free up some core tiles.

IT – Build a musket for Leipzip defense to free up a horses.

[6] 610 – Munich jungle clearing exposes BG. Upgrade a horse in Leipzig for home core defense. 2 horses in St. Petes for Coventry assault. No city exchanges on the other continent.

IT – Nothing of note.

[7] 620 – Found Wurtzburg on SE coast. 3 more cavs cued up. Moving some units around to guard against the settler pairs stepping into town. I also get India in on the Japanese act for 2 gpt. I had forgotten about him. Their continent is now at war. Wish I could watch the samurai vs. WE that’s going to happen right now.

IT – Not much.

[8] 630AD – Upgrade 3 more cavs. I’m declaring once I have 8 for Coventry and some zone defense behind the lines. There is a settler in Munich2 waiting on a boat. Next musket he is heading to island. Japan takes the far flung town of Anygyang that was not connected to China empire.

IT – Nada

[9] 640AD – Upgrading will be ready next turn.

IT – Guarding against settlers.

[10] 650AD – Cavs are put on a hill overlooking Coventry and there is a spear on top. Same with Canterbury. I would assume the small cities in the north where we will have 6 cavs next turn are similarly guarded. I expected knights or pikes. Canterbury should fall next turn and then Coventry soon thereafter.

Have fun Offa! BTW, I would try to get England to declare for War happiness.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM2offa650AD.jpg

Heihei..I feel guilty to use cavalry against those innocent AIs..our hands are full of blood.

OK I have it and will play tonight.

WE ATTACK

650ad There is a sea route across so all we need is 3 more techs to get to the other continent. I bump up science to 30%: theo due in 7, this leaves us a surplus of 170gpt.

I moved a few guys near the front line. I didn't declare immediately as I am a bit unsure how much movement the cavalry have.

Switch a load of coastal towns to galleys.

I see Frankfurt is building SunTze. I think this prob isn't worth it as it is going to take 27 turns, but I'm not going to stop it.

660 ask the english to leave which they do so I have to declare war.

Get off to a storming start when first cavalry loses to a reg spear in Coventry.
The next one takes the town: it had only one defender.

Attack Canterbury with the 2 cavalry next to it and it is ours.

3 cavalry take Reading (2 spear,one longbow).

Move a couple of swords close to Birmingham and spot new English borders just over the sea.

Notice all the unsettled lands so switch to build a number of settlers. Try to move workers towards productive towns.

670 take Oxford (1 pike 1 spear).
take York (3 pike 1 spear)
fail to take Liverpool (tough spear on a hill kills a vet sword and redlines a cav).

Theology is known by India and China

Buy theology +36 + 10gpt+ wm from India for chemistry

Switch to education, due in 8 turns.

ibt Lose undefended Sevastopol to an archer I hadn't seen.

680 take Warwick, and recapture Sevastopol. Liverpool still holds out.

take Norwich which is bonus as I could only get one cav there to attack.

690 Finally take Liverpool.
Take Nottingham (elite spear and reg Knight). The knight kills an elite cav.
Cav killed by a reg spear in Birmingham.

Need to bump lux to 10%.

700 attack Leeds and get a leader. WE have had a lot of elite wins.

710 rush Leos in Yakutsk
take London
take Hastings



declare v France

720 take Chartres and Tours
take Newcastle
take Dover. attack Brighton and get another leader.
lose an elite sword attacking the tough spearman in Birmingham
take Rheims

730 education learned. start astronomy due in 5
740 capture Rouen the last french town but the French survive. Attacks a frech gally in the north by stuttgart2 and they are gone.

750 rush Sun Tze.
Finally get Birmingham

NB Franfurt should switch to Copericus as soon as astronomy comes in (due in 3) as I think this will trigger a golden age.Copericus is cheaper than Sistine so shouldn't take long.

England is nearly gone and ought to be over with in a couple of turns. The English held out a bit in the north so I have had to divert a number of troops up there. We have a couple of boats up north to ferry troops over to Exeter.

I got a bit tired at the end ( + temp 38.5), and this is my excuse for not planning out our invasion of the next continent. I have been moving a number of troops to near Newcastle and Hastings as this is a fairly short crossing.

All in all we are motoring now. The conquest went very well overall and we now have Leo and SunTze.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/offa750.jpg

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/offa_SG002_AD0750_01.SAV

Got it. I'm playing NOW, from WORK. :D

Well Done Offa! I thought England would be a push over. That's why I blew off going after Joan and concentrated on horses and cash for cavs for England before she could get muskets. Reading you traded away chemistry for Theo but didn't see that you traded to anyone else. We had a monopoly on it. Were the other AI's out of cash? IMO I wouldn't have traded Chemistry at all keeping the AI further from cavs. Adjusting sliders to try to get it with cash and gpt may have been better. Try not to trade metal away. Our overseas wars will go much better if we are not facing opposing cavs. Looks like the wars overseas I started are dragging to a stalemate. Minimap shows 2 cities different.
What say the team on jumping the FP or palace to London. Our current FP has crappy land. London looks to have a nice core and if we disconnect all roads and we can pump horses from there to upgrade when they get to launch points.
That GA is going to be nice. Is Frankfurt on a prebuild?
Time to pump galleys. Need around 10 to start and build another 20 after that. Next leader will probably get to get that going, mop up the continent and move cavs to launch point or points. Once Astronomy comes in it should be all cash for cavs and boats. Perhaps 4-5 muskets to hold a beachead on a hill.
Looking good!

Also, I might even turn up the lux tax once we are all cash. It would do wonders for the score. We don't need extra cash anymore than to upgrade and rush cavs/boats. Since the bonus for finish is based on the score when you win all the happy faces we can get are important too.

Great job dudes :)

850AD (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/offa_SG002_AD0850_01.SAV)

preturn: no change. Our corruption is really huge..also need more cities to support the big army.

I switch a couple core cities to University. Some infra would bring in more benefit and hopefully more score.

IBT China wants to renew MA vs Japan, and it pays us 110g+4gpt, deal!

(1)760AD:

Raise sci to 70% to get Astronomy in 1.
2 cavs take out Richmond.
I rush a barbor in Newcastle so we could upgrade our galleys next turn.

IBT Astronomy->Physics. I'll ignore Navigation and get to Magnetism asap. I set to 5 turn with +26gpt surplus.

(2)770AD:

Upload 3 cavs next to Exeter, the last English city.
Switch Sistine to Copernicus in 2.
Rush a craval in Rheims. Upgrade a galley to craval.

I sell Education to China for Chivalry+WM+60g+26gpt and make his GL obsolete. To prevent China and India exchange techs I sell Education to India for a miniscule 2gpt+8g+WM.

Rush a harbor at Stuttgard 2, to be able to upgrade galleys.

IBT Japanese dropped a sword and a settler in the NW cornor, and got attacked by barbs.

(3)780AD: Capture Exeter and England is destroyed.

Elite cav kills sword and captures two slaves.

Found New Lipzig 2 and New Hamburg 2.

I keep lux at 10% for now.

IBT Copernicus' Observatory completed. We didn't get a GA. This thing only triggers for expansionist civ! Looks like we need ToG!

(4)790AD: Both China and India has Education. :mad:

Kill reg sword and capture Bizen.
I sign RoP with India.

IBT palace expansion.

(5)800AD: I sell Astronomy to India for Chivalry+WM+40gpt+77g (full price).

IBT York rioted, but I could figure out why.

(6)810AD:
Jungle Coastal City founded.
New Konigsberg 2 founded.
Keep rushing craval.

I switch core cities to universities as we are producing more cavs than we could transport. Infra would bring more cash to rush cravals.

IBT Physics->Magnetism in 4 turns with +17 surplus.

(7)820AD: rush two more cravals.

IBT Gandi wants to renew MA by us 2gpt. We get 37g+9gpt from him instead. :D

(8)830AD: Incense City founded.

IBT another palace expansion.

(9)840AD: Start sending cavs to the east as with Magnetism the route will be faster that way.

Rush two cravals in the east.

I start prebuild in Berlin as it has the most shields (15spt). It could become JS Bach's or Smith's.

(10)850AD: kill injured Samurai. Looks like China captured a Japanese town.

Note:

Magnetism is in 1 turn. After that we have 3 points of invasion:
1. The old Hastings/Newcastle in the SW facing India: I've sent out 7 boats from there. It includes mostly cavs, but also a settler and an elite sword. We could use it to rush ToG on the new land just to trigger the golden age? But make sure it won't flipped. There are a lot of cavs around these two towns.
2. Exter on the NW island: It could rush a harbor (sorry, no enough money this turn) and upgrade two cravals inside it (they are fortified - make sure to wake them up). There are also a settler in Stuttgart 2 which you probably wanna pick up and settle somewhere.
3. In the east, all towns (from Jungle City to New Konigsberg 2) are building caravals, and there are already some units inside including boats. I forgot to rush a harbor there but you should be able to do it in a couple of turns. This should be our preferred path to Japan.

We can turn off research for a few turns to upgrade and rush things. We don't need any more techs really, except for ToG for the sake of Newton's.

There is an island to our north. I have a couple of settlers nearby. You may want to get a boat and settle there, or not bother..

With Magnetism we could buy silks from India. We may want to do that.

In the war front, we need to control the choke.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM2-850AD.jpg

Well it looks like the preparation has begun. Quote"I switch core cities to universities as we are producing more cavs than we could transport. Infra would bring more cash to rush cravals."
I not sure about the uni builds what does that do for us? We need no research. It does not give more cash or happiness. Those cities should be on cavs primarily or happy improvements if anything else. We have the cash to rush galleys and then upgrade to caravels/galleons for low cost. Rush them in unconnected cities. Tons of cavalry is what we need. Get an ROP with India and get those boys over there to group up for a Japanese assault. Good luck next leader!

I not sure about the uni builds what does that do for us? We need no research.

If we decide not to do any more research, sure, you are right. But I think we still need some research to build wonders. In that case the more universities we have the lower sci bar needs to be, and the more cash we get.

We've had enough cavs and we have enough cities still building it. Unit support is starting to hurt us. What we need is to get those cavs to the other continent.

Reading you traded away chemistry for Theo but didn't see that you traded to anyone else. We had a monopoly on it. Were the other AI's out of cash? Is Frankfurt on a prebuild?
Looking good!

Yes no one else had money, or anything else. I don't mind giving the AI chemistry, they don't make any good use of it. It got us to theo 3 turns earlier, which basically means we will win the game 3 turns earlier.

No Golden age for Copernicus! Surely that was scientific. Nuts.

I wouldn't make any universities. Just cavalry, settlers and boats. We should make mincemeat of the second continent, and need to get there ASAP.
Almost no troops should be left behind so we should cash rush boats. If we attack at once this will be over very soon.

No Golden age for Copernicus! Surely that was scientific. Nuts. Yeah, and we'll probably win before or as we get Newtons.

My turn? Or are we waiting for spleen?

Your turn. Spleen has been away for weeks, so consider he is autoskipped for now. And by my reading of the SGOTM rule draft, autoskipping twice means removal from the roster..

You can take the rule on autoskip with some flexibility, in my understanding: if the team agrees to wait for a player a bit longer, or give him "one more chance" to reappear, it's ok (I mean, it's a game after all :) ).

But I see that Spleen hasn't posted in quite a while, so you are also free to consider him out of the roster. Just let me know if you want me to remove him from the list too; I'll PM him a warning in any case.

Any update gozpel?

Pre-turn - Scroll through cities quickly, find 5 extra gpt, that's all.

The caravels has no settler, erh well we have one in a boat further south.

860AD - We learn Magnetism -> Banking in 4 turns at +82 gpt.

I'll wait a turn, to see how I can get spices cheapest.

Check the situation where the choke is. Not a good spot to wage war I reckon. No settler or muskets.
I will go for the NE part of Japan instead, and they will have a 2 front war.

Berlin is building a wonder, due in 36 turns? Switch some tiles with Frankfurt and let the latter city start a build instead. Save us a whopping 6 turns. Will move a worker into Frankfurt to cut a few more turns.

870AD - Spices are too expensive, no deal.

Sell WM to China and India for 64g together, so I can rush a galleon.

Lower science slider to 40% and Banking in 2t and we make 204 gpt.

880AD - IT - China declare war on us? And kill our 3 elite cavs in the jungle outside their little dyestown near Japan. And for this the people expand our palace.

890AD - Not much.

900AD - We learn Banking -> ToG in 4t at 50%, we make 66 gpt

Drop off 9 cavs by Ise, a Japanese diamond town and 6 other cavs by Toyama, the most NE town.

910AD - We take Ise without losses, set to harbor.

We also take Toyama and lose a cav against a very heroic spearman, but next turn we get a leader very well named Horsa :) It would take him 5 turns plus to get back home to rush a wonder or I could rush the wonder where we are. But at this stage I think an army is best.

Kill our first samurai with the army. Switch Berlin to Heroic Epic in 6 turns.

920AD - India makes peace with Japan.

We take Shimonoseki and Japan has no more gems.

Drop off another 9 units in Ise. Kill offending units with elites and we get another leader, Barbarossa! Build another army.

930AD - Gozpel's Army takes Chittagong. We also take Sapporo with Bubba's Band.

940AD - We learn ToG and enter the new era. We get Steam Power. Haha, we have 5 or so sources of coal on our continent, but not a single one connected :)
Research Electricity at 50% in 8 turns, 43 gpt.

Newton's in 11 turns in Frankfurt, will the game be over before that? Hmm, no, we are 400 tiles from domination.

A couple of samurais dies against our defending cavs.

Our people are happy and add to the Palace. Just see how happy they get now when I rush a harbor in Ise.

Gozpel's Army takes Fukushima.
Bubba's Band takes Hakodate.
We take Satsuma at a chokepoint and the peninsula is ours.

950AD - Japan are lucky and kill 2 of our cavs.

I kill 3 of their sams in turn and pillage a road W of Satsuma.

We have 2 armies and a 14 cavs in or near Satsuma, plus a couple in other towns to quell resisters. A galleon can land 4 cavs next turn and another is on its way.

We have 2 caravels and 2 galleons spread out W of Japan, holding 14 cavs. We should gather them and land of the most northern point of Japan. Then they will be squeezed from 2 sides.

They are down to 10 cities plus an island town.

Heroic Epic in 2t and Newton's in 10t.

I forgot the change the luxtax, we have 6 luxes now.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/offa_950ad.jpg

Nice progress! Should we MA India against China?

We are well on the way now to world domination and surely it can't take long. Clearly with 2 armies and lots of cav we should just steamroller through to domination or conquest. It would be nice to trigger a golden age though. Why are we still researching?

Well done Gozpel for cotm1. I'm very envious of your quick finish.

"Why are we still researching?"

I have absolutely no idea, was thinking too much about warring, shipping troops and moving workers :) Sure, turn that OFF! Ahh. <---(joke)

We are just under 400 tiles from domination, that would be libraries all around and Japan and China territory. I don't think we can cut much of turns by conquest.

Btw, Kuningas team already finished by 980AD...so we have to look for third spot I guess, since that other team outscored us early. Next time you listen to me, when I say knights we build knights! :lol:

Thanks Offa, not nearly good enough though. I thought my plan was pretty good, but it seems some players "find" the solution and pathways in a way that only Masters can do....every time. Ah well, I'm still looking for that imaginary medal, I really thought I had a chance this time. I suppose I get an 8:th place or something. Better not to post anything until last day of month :lol:

The roster is a little broken. I guess I shouldn't have played after offa. Don't know why I did that. For that reason I guess I should be skipped and let Barbslinger play.

microbe - skipped for having played one extra round
barbslinger - up
offa - on deck
spleen - (autoskipped)
gozpel - just played

Got it. Will play tonight. Should have been war units all the way. Turning off the research, except for a scientist. IT's cavs/boats from here on out.

Team Offa – 950AD – SGOTM2 - Germans

Preturn – We are 390 tiles from donination. Found a settler sleeping in Stuttgart that can fill in some blank spot in the NE. The settler in france is can go to an edge to get some tiles. We don’t need pop for the win or another 1spt town. With research off we are at +490gpt. We should be able to possibly win this during my turns. Set a couple Jap towns to temple. Coal looks to be hooked up in 2 turns or so. Then we can concentrate on getting cities to 20,16,14,12,10 spt for cavs. Turn the lux slider down for 567gpt and look at cities. There are 4-5 troublemaker cities that need markets or temples. The English are still resisting. Anyone tell them the queen is dead? Get Ghandi moving with an alliance against China and Japan for physics and he gives PP, 9gpt and 27g.

IT – 2 settlers, 2 workers, a market and 4 cavs finish. HE is 1 shield short. :lol: Should have seen that. We lose a cav and kill a SAM.

[1] 960AD – Coal is hooked up and I start rounding up workers off of meaningless jobs. We need a rail line from cores to coast. I take Nagasaki and founded N Brandenburg in Japan. Damn, I grabbed a group of cavs in Satsuma to move up and though the circle said 1 move it stopped short. There must have been a mixed lot of different move cavs in there. We may lose Nagasaki, but we’ll get it back with less population. Rush a couple libraries and settlers and 1 cav. Upgraded 4 horses on our mainland to cavs. Check Japanese towns for starvation diet.

IT – 1, yes, only one SAM comes towards Nagasaki. He wasn’t even close enough to attack. Harbor, libs and cavs complete along with workers.

[2] 970AD – Destroy a new Jap town that had settled on the NE island in the tundra. Move troops up into Japan. Drop off some cavs on his iron to kill off his samurai and rush some libs and settlers.

IT –Lots of stuff completes from the rushing. Lose 2 cavs. One on the iron and a loose one I fumbled.

[3] 980AD – Attack Iron city edo. Kill a pike and another shows and I lose. I pillage the iron with the remaining cav and land 4 more. Two army kills and a vet cav kill nets Osaka taking Jap wine away. He’s going down. The army knocks off Edo and some other cavs take Yokohama. All set to lib. More movement left so Nara falls. I thought this would be a little tougher. I’m sending the ships down to hastings to prepare Chinese invasion. I also landed 6 more cavs at the northern tip of Japan. We’re at 299 on tiles left and expansions and city taking will be occurring shortly.

IT – Lose 1 cav. A LB come up to threaten. Upgrade some caravels. Ouch, a lone sammy takes out 3 cavs in Tokyo. Maybe this won’t be a pushover. Izumo, Kagoshima and Nagoya go down. That leaves Tokyo and Kyoto left. F4 verifies it. It is a push over. They are gone in 2 turns. Railing has begun in earnest to Hastings and in the core. I attack Kyoto and leave an injured pike on top with 1hp. Chinese have taken India’s Madras.

IT – Not one attack.

[5] Oops, I missed a turn somewhere because it is 1000AD. Oh well, Kyoto falls! Tokyo is a tougher nut and will take another turn. Lost 2 cavs, barely denting a SAM and exposing a pike. 8 more cavs land next turn and then I turn towards China. In fact I send 5 cavs to the jungle outside of Matsuyama and he has a musket guarding.

IT – No attacks and some expansions occur.

[6] 1010 – We take Matsuyama and the dyes. We have 7 luxes now. We also take Tokyo with no loss and it looks like he is on a boat since shift-E shows no capital. The northern continent is ours. The rail line is from one coast to the other. I rush 4 cavs to fill some ships. We are at +604gpt. I also fortifies Matsuyama with about 12 cavs. A couple workers I set out will be captured next turn. They are standing in front of 2 riders and a LB that can’t hit our dye city any time soon. Looks like China only has 1 horse site that is fortressed. That’s where I’m headed.

IT – I get a couple flame ups in smaller cities that have no roads connected and Yokohama flips. Shoot.

[7] 1020 – We kill a rider and move up on next target. China has the upper hand on India having taken 2 more cities. Cores are coming along nicely. We need 169 tiles. Expansions coming up and I founded a couple more towns.

IT – Japans galley is spotted! No ships in the area though. No attacks.

[8] 1030 – Capture Angyang from China with no loss. Riders must have ran off because I also grabbed 9 workers in the field. 119 tiles left.

IT – Newtons completes and we get our GA!!!! Gpt is +924gpt. Cavs are coming at us fast now. No attacks.

[9] 1040 – A few more expansions and we’re 89 tiles away. Doesn’t look like I’ll make it. Offa will put it over the top in a few turns. The cavs are trudging through the jungle to get to the battle. Once we get to Karachi we’re home free. I’m using the 3 ships in the area to transport the troops around the jungle. Some others are nearly there.

IT – Not much but builds.

[10] Our ships are poised to take Chinas horses with another ship of cavs right behind them. We’re at 68 tiles left so it should not be long.

Some markets are in cue for large corrupt cities. We have a lot of settlers including 2 in the jungle nears dyes. Japans galley is going CCW around the 1st continent we took and I have a galleon off to intercept. Libs should be expanding next turn so it is nearly over.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM2offa1050AD.jpg

Have all our troops in Chinese territory? If it takes time for us to get to them, how about declare on India also?

Have all our troops in Chinese territory? If it takes time for us to get to them, how about declare on India also? It'll be over in 2-3 turns. Expansion and Offa, I'm sure can take the two cities in the north. It's over baby!

I noticed we are building lots of libraries in those little towns. Let's rush them and make the expansion come faster? (unless they already have a temple and will expand in 1-2 turns).

microbe -
barbslinger - just played
offa - up and finish the game!
spleen - (autoskipped)
gozpel - on deck

"Yokohama flips" Japan have a settler sailing around somewhere with all their culture in his backpocket? One of the things that really annoys me.

Ah well, this is over and done with in a couple of turns. Remember to smack me over the head if I ever suggest we have this many cities again in a game :) Sure, I don't mind micromanagement, but in 100+ cities it's a pain :lol:

I'm already looking forward to next SGOTM and hopefully in the same team. I learn a lot from you guys. :)

Finish this off Offa, so we can celebrate.

If you look at all the cities due to expand and the 2 you can capture fairly quickly, I'm thinking you can fortify all the workers and just let it run it's course to domination. I was rushing libs nearly every turn and we only need 68 more tiles. I would have finished it off but it was really late.

I've downloaded the save. I'll play tonight. Should be fairly simple.

Thanks everyone; this was pretty much over.

1050 swap a few home continent towns to settlers.

1060 Lots of stuff complete, but it doesn't seem important.

take Karachi (just) as 1st cavalry dies. The rest of the army can't reach.
automate all our workers as efficiency doesn't matter.

ibt india and china sign peace. We sign an ROP with India. Chinese riders kill 3 cavalry.

1070 Take the 2 further Chinese towns in the North. The chinese had 2 rider armies, so this wasn't that easy. We get another leader who makes an army.

Build a few towns in the fringes of the home continent. Start a little offensive in the Chinese south. Easily exceed tile limit.

1080 domination win. 6111 Firaxis

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/offaend.jpg

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/offa_SG002_AD1080_01.SAV

Nicely played everyone! :goodjob:

Finally there. Thanks all :banana:

I have just read the original gotm8 thread. Very interesting. Our result would have stacked up very well, indicating I think that people play better now. The write ups were a bit sketchy a though, and much of the discussion was about a ridiculous exploit that accounted for the top score.

However, Mad-bax improved our start position a bit, and this shows how distorting one tile can be, as a 4 turn settler factory was not available to the original players.

Thanks everyone for the great game. I was hoping to win this time around but it wasn't in the cards. Perhaps next go round. Looking forward to playing with you all again.

I'm too lazy to check other threads. What exactly could we have done better?

I'm thinking we should have focused on conquest instead of expansion earlier. Our invasion to the other continent seems a bit late.

I think another thing that might help is to use some luxury tax when we have the extra cash to get more happy faces. Correct me if I'm wrong but the domination win multiplier affects the score you have at that point. If we had used 10% more lux throughout the latter 2/3rds of our game I wonder how much more base score we may have had.

Maybe, but are other people also using the same tricks? If they are not and they still get better score, something else is wrong. :) Some players seem to have much higher score from the beginning and led till the end.

I am not very much interested in milking anyway. I don't want to change the normal play just to get higher score.

I may have to check those threads myself..

Check the staff team last page. They are specifically mentioning it. The drawback is research cash and rushing. I think it would take a decision based on what percetage of towns gain a happy face. Each one of those happy faces are an extra point. I think the score is based on tiles worked + happy faces + specialists.

I think we played a pretty good game although clearly some way from optimal.
I suspect the settler factory could have been started earlier, or we could have squeezed out an earlier settler. Some of our early towns were poorly sited (too much jungle), and my choice of a tight inner ring wasn't that good for score. Our initial research worked out poorly and we didn't catch up until poly. I suspect Gozpel is right in that we would have been better going for chivalry than mil trad, as our conquest was delayed. We allowed ourselves to get distracted by barbs during the massive uprising (I replayed those moves and the uprising was indeed massive but ignorable). Very early war could have given us an early boost, but would have been a high risk strategy.

I think we probably could have saved at least 300 years and the bonus would have boosted our score a lot. However, much of this involves being wise after the event, and I think our score is not that bad. Considering the misjudgement/errors we made we must have done quite a lot right to achieve such a good score. A lot of the teams are very strong and are very tough to beat. Our result would have been very strong in the original gotm8. Although they didn't have an available settler factory, the fastest finisher (Cracker) popped 2 settlers from huts and we beat his finish. The winning score in gotm8 used a now disallowed exploit, and actually involved a slower conquest than ours.

There is a final spoiler thread opened. Someone needs to write up sth there. Offa?

Partly to block out the pain of England's exit from Euro 2004 I have posted a short summary of our game on the final spoiler thread.