@Planetfall - we already know radio.

@Civ_Steve - I am assuming you mean Catherine instead of Elizabeth above, when talking about getting fission for free.

bigchief: you are correct. Russia is scientific, so Catherine would get a free Modern Era Tech, IF we don't get Fission for our Free Tech and gift her up to see if she gets it.

Replaceable Parts would be a nice free Tech, but we should give the AI as much time to learn it as possible (3 more turns; although they might learn it while we're doing research on it allowing us to trade for it so 7 turns at most; this variant changes things up a bit since it's not just researching Fission but getting one of the AI to build UN for you after that which makes things a bit tricky.)

My fellow Generals :

I have finally posted the spoiler summary, having finished my last examination for the semester. I have a few weeks "off" until the second semester starts in July so I can hopefully keep up a bit better with the end stages of this game.

Please skip me on this round. The next two evenings are full and I do not want to slow the game down. Let's keep things on the normal rotation. I will wait until my next normal round.

Keith

I don't think the game will last more than 3, maybe 4 sets of turns. :)

Next player (Turns1-10): Learn Flight (3 turns); Learn Replaceable Parts (4 turns); (Trade Industrialism around halfway through Replaceable Parts; start UnivSuff at Novgorod); do 3 of 4 Turns for Mass Production

Next player (Turns11-20): Finish MassProd (1 Turn); Learn MotorTransp(4 turns); Go Modern and see if we get Fission for free; (if SO, trade/gift prospective UN Builders to Fission, we need at least 2 who have started UnivSuffrage with high shield/turn cities building it; once we get Catherine's Free Tech, declare War and take her out)(if NOT, start Research on Fission, assuming 5 out of 8 turns done; Delay UnivSuffrage to finish AFTER we have completed Research of Fission!; trade for Catherine's Free Tech, declare War and take her out)

Next player (Turns21-30): if researching Fission, Finish it and follow the if SO path above; Finish UnivSuffrage AFTER we've gotten Fission in the hand's of the AI building UnivSuffrage, cascading them to UN or Manhattan Project;

At 36 spt, Canton can finish the UN in about 25 turns (900 Shields for the AI to finish the UN at Monarch level); if we gift China (and others) Industrialsm about 5 turns into the first set of turns above, that puts a possible UN build about Turn 30, just as the 4th player from now starts their turns; monitor the UN Builders, sign ROP with Neighbor if necessary, rush transports, move units to attack position; when UN is built, declare War, sign Alliances (trading other ModAge Tech if needed), give lots of gifts (Resources, Luxuries, Techs, gpt, Gold, the kitchen sink), capture UN, hold Vote.

So the UN could be built in about 30 turns, 1400 or just after. This is earliest under our current path; if AI learns ReplParts for us, the timetable moves up.

If I have ever captured the UN, I don't recall it (I always build it). Do we automatically get to call the vote on the turn we capture it or on the turn after, or if the previous owner has declined a vote, do we have to wait a set number of turns to call the vote?

I'm not sure about that myself; I've always built it, too, if the game gets that far! :D My impression is that we will get an opportunity at the beginning of the next turn after capture to call a vote; hopefully we'll know for sure soon.

It would be nice to know in advance. It could make a big difference in our invasion plans. If we know the vote will come up the first turn, then we can get away with sending a lot less troops. It's one thing to take another Civ's capital and hold it for one turn, and a completely different thing to try and hold it for 20 turns.

Keith - Sorry you can't pick up this round. It looks like you are all once again the hands of General Peanut.

CS - looks like a good plan ... unless some dopey AI decides to declare war or something.

Here we go ... stay tuned ...

bigchief: I understand your concerns. I'm thinking a stack of about 20 Infantry to hold it (MechInf would be great if that's one of the free Techs!), maybe 10-15 Panzers for the initial assault and about 10 Artillery to provide defensive barrages. This requires about 6 transports for the initial ferry; we have at least 6 coastal towns who have started on transports which will need to be rushed at some point. The AI will be getting Industrialism in about 5 turns, so in the following 25 they might have a few Factories here and there. They'll only have had Motorized Transport for about 8 turns; with few Factories in place I doubt we'll see many Tanks (if any.) So it's likely to be Cav vs Infantry; IIRC, China doesn't even have MilTrad yet!! I've started the first Factories building Riflemen which will upgrade quickly to Infantry soon. We'll be almost fully Factoried by the end of Peanut's turns, so we can allocate them to build all the Riflemen/Infantry/Artillery we'll need. And once we learn MotorTransp, start switching to Panzers. An Investigate City on the leading UN builders, once we've cascaded the AI to UN, will tell us what defenses we have to overcome; a few Riflemen at best would be my guess, maybe an Infantry. I haven't check our relative culture ratings; a culture flip would really hurt, so we probably want even more Panzers to fan out and take adjoining cities if it takes more than one turn. Transports can ferry reinforcements if our target doesn't field a sufficient navy to stop us.

If there's any delays, all this fun will likely fall in your lap!!

Anyway, Good Luck General Peanut!! (And thanks for an enjoyable read that was worth waiting for!)

Here we go, fellow Generals …

Pre-turn : Looks good. We upgrade a Galleon & a Galley to Transports for the fun of it.

IBT : Dull. The Barb galleys practice rowing on the lake – when’s that Ironclad going to be ready ??

1255AD : Some workers built, more ordered. There’s a whole lotta working on dem railroads all over the land folks. Oh, and some jungle clearing near Bremen.

:) Well serve me up an extra strength Vegetable Curry ! Ghandi has mastered Replaceable Parts ! He will swap RP+WM+9gpt for Electronics. Ok.

Well now – hasty strategy rethink – Flight in 2, Mass Prod in (say) 5, Motors in (say) 5 ? I don’t think the AIs will help us with research now, so lets suck their cash dry and then give away Indust. We switch Novgorod to Universal Suffrage.

Sell RepParts to Joan for WM+87gpt+140g, and Elect for 5g+46gpt. Everyone else is broke ! So we give Indust away for free to everyone.

We also push alomg a few universities – research is key now.

IBT : We sign an ROP with Cathy – it improves relations a bit.

1260AD : Bingo. The Chinese start Universal Suffrage in … Beijing ! That will take them 29 turns ! More clearing & railroads.

IBT : Boring. Cathy is marching a Longbowman across our little northern island … Hmmm.

1265AD : Flight done. MassP in 4 (Great !). More clearing & railroading.

IBT : Boring. That Russian Longbowman is determined on something ! No good I expect ...

1270AD : We start some Airports in case we need to do some airlifting. India starts Universal Suffrage in Karachi – 48 turns there !

IBT : Boring .... and he’s still marching …

1275AD : More clearing etc. We give Cathy some incense and Tokugawa some Ivory. We sell Corp to Joan for 10gpt, and to Ghandi for 90g+52gpt. We also give him spices for free.

IBT : Boring.

1280AD : We trade Elect+Corp to Japan for Wine&Dyes. Then we give him Spice for free.

IBT : Cathy declared war on Japan. She captures Suo with the Longbowman !

1285AD : Boring. More clearing and railroads. More Airports.

IBT : Joan starts Universal Suffrage … in Lyons .. 32 turns.

1290AD : Boring stuff. More clearing. Novgorod slowed down to finish UnivSuff in 8 (allows 3 for MT, and 4 for Fission if we need it.).

IBT : Boring

1295AD : More clearing. Surprise, surprise – everyone is polite to us – even Cathy ! More Airports finished. We are building Infantry and Artillery for an invasion.

IBT : Boring.

1300AD : More clearing & railroading. More infantry & artillery. The French have mastered Communism and the Indians Economics. What clever chaps they all are !

Homely advice : We are on the threshold of the last stage. We will have Motor Transport next turn, which will put us into the Modern Age. Novgorod (artificially slowed down) will finish Universal Suffrage in 6 turns.

If we don’t get gifted with Fission by the AI gods, and Cathy doesn’t either with a little bit of help from us, then we will have four turns to research it and gift it around before we complete Universal Suffrage (with some tweaking at Novgorod we could stretch to five). If we do get it then gift it and return Novgorod to full production. Beijing looks like the best bet for the first AI city to get the UN, if they switch to it that is !

We have 16 Infantry, 10 Cavalry, 26 Knights (cheap upgrades to Cavalry if needed), 7 Artillery, 3 Rifles (cheap upgrades to Infantry if needed). There are 5 Transports, 4 of which are at New Cologne on the coast closest to the other continent. We have 11 Airports, 2 more ready next turn, and more to come. That should be able to support an invasion with airlift follow-up once we capture a city and rush an airport, particularly if we switch all production to Panzers next turn.

Over to you, General Peglegasus !

The 1300 AD Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Peanut_SG002_AD1300_01.SAV)

Awesome! Gandhi came through for us, and methinks he'll play a key part later, too! You know, I originally wanted to take Cathy out, but if she signs an alliance with us against the UN builder, she can stay for the vote IMO.

I think I'd slow down Novgorod's build of UnivSuff for one turn, just to see if we get Fission for free, or if we have to research it; I'd recommend taking at least one more citizen off the hills near Novgorod, and extend the build to 8 turns (IIRC, from just checking it out.) We can easily add the citizen(s) back later to speed up the build, if it's warranted, just as we can control when the AI gets to know about Fission or any other Tech.

So Beijiang is the leader now. Still has 20 turns for Univ Suff or so; 29 turns originally means about 25 spt so another 180 Shields to complete Fission = +8 turns for 28 turns from now or so. I think I'd still rather see Canton build UN, especially if they've got a factory there now! That would make Canton at least 54 spt, finishing UN in 18 turns or less, 10 turns faster than Beijiang. We could time a Fission trade/gift to just before or just after Canton finishes something. Which is better? Will the AI switch Canton's build to UN, or does Canton need to have just completed something to be assigned to UN? General Peglegasus will have to monitor Canton closely to see if this will work. (Oh yeah, we can't afford any more 20 turn deals with China; they all have to expire on their own now.)

Good Transport placement! From where they are they can load up and move halfway over on turn1; turn2 moves adjacent to Indian coast where a future ROP with Gandhi will allow a landing and we're in position to strike! (Assuming China builds the UN somewhere.) I'd still rather see 6 Transports, or maybe a few more. If we have the troops already over there, we don't have to worry as much about an airport (although I'd still rush one, anyway.)

BTW, here's the turn status:

bigchief
civ_steve
Keith Larson -- Passed
Peanut --- Just Played
Peglegasus <---- UP
planetfall

Peglegasus - give us a got it when you can

oh bugger! as excited as i am about nearing the end game i'm afraid i have to pass my turns! sorry all. i'm having computer troubles :sad: and don't have much time to spend on fixing it so it's slow going.

have fun!

Peglegasus sorry to hear that.

I'll pick up the game and play Saturday, but it might have to be after a concert. It is a very busy weekend.

Suggestions on what how to play the next 10 turns?

PF

Peglegasus: quite unfortunate; that has got to cut into your civ time! Hope you're able to get your computer running nicely soon.

planetfall: you're going to learn Motorized Transport in 1 turn. That means lots of Panzers start getting built right after that (we're heavily industrialized right now). If we get Fission as a free tech, the rest is pretty straight forward. If not, at some point (soon after) we want to gift Russia into the Modern Era, and see if she gets Fission; if so, we can use our ModEra tech to trade for it (might require a bit more, but it's worth it). If neither of us gets it, we'll have to research it, as quickly as possible.

Meanwhile, Novgorod is building UnivSuffrage. We want Novgorod to finish UnivSuff after we've learned Fission and given it to the other AI's. I'd probably give it to all of them (and of course all required IA Techs), just so another civ doesn't score points by doing the same. Then we can finish UnivSuff, which will cascade the AI's building UnivSuff to the UN. If we have to slow down the production in Novgorod, slow it down; we must not under any circumstances finish UnivSuffrage before we've given Fission to the other civs.

Earlier investigations of the Chinese city of Canton show it has killer production. It would be nice to get Canton to build the UN for us; currently it's not building a Wonder according to the F7 screen, so it can't cascade to UN. I would try to time getting Fission in China's (and everybody else's) hands in a manner that Canton would be available to start the UN. I don't know if that time is the turn before it finishes whatever it's currently building, or on the turn it has just finished something and has 0 shields in the hopper. Investigate City will tell you when this is. (I'd lean towards the former, when it has 1 turn left to finish something; that way, we give them Fission, on China's turn they finish their builds, and hopefully choose UN as the next thing to build in Canton.) Either way we should complete UnivSuff in Novgorod at least 2 or 3 turns after this Fission trade; that gives China a chance to use Canton, and if it doesn't we can still cascade the UnivSuff builds over to UN.

Other than that, just build up the army, Tanks, Infantry and some Artillery, finish off a few Airports, maybe rush a few more Transports on the East Coast. Do not renew or start any 20 turn deals with China, especially if Canton starts the UN!! They are giving us a Luxury; we'll have to do without it when the time comes to renew the deal. When bringing the other AI's into the ModAge, take them for every gold piece and gpt with the first Tech or two, then Gift them. I think we've just renewed the Luxury deal with Japan, so that wont come up (yup, I see Peanut did that in 1280). I'd probably research another ModAge tech or two, just to gift at the end or maybe to use as part of an Alliance deal.

The timing of the Fission deal and finishing UnivSuff is the most sensitive issue; the rest should be pretty routine.

planetfall: Have you been able to play yet?

Well, it's been 3 days with no notice from planetfall. Semi-official SGOTM guidelines provide for 48 hours to play a set of turns. If we get a turn log from planetfall, okay; otherwise, I think you're up bigchief!

CS and all,

Thank you for your great notes and help. I need to bail out until at least July 19th. I am holding up the play too much. I kept hoping I could squeeze in play, but too much stuff keeps coming up.

Thanks for your support and help.

Good luck BigChief.

PF

I've got it, and I'm playing soon.

planetfall: I was afraid that would be the case. You've got a lot happening in RL. Thanks for the update, and take care. Perhaps we'll be starting SGOTM3 about that time, and we can run a hack-a-thon next time around! :)

Turn 0 - Adjusted citizen workers in Novgorod to build US in 8.

Turn 1 - Mao asks for MPP and RoP. I give him 20 gold as a gift instead. He has no rubber. That will be good later. We learn Moto Trans. & get Fission for free. Set research to Computers in 7. Ironclad finishes and begins patrol of Lake Barb by sinking one boat. Many panzers being built. Many worker moves. Adjusted citizens workers in Novgorod to build US in 3. Gandhi has Economics. Hope this doesn't cause a cascade to Smith's instead of the UN. Joan has Communism. Trade Joan Radio for Communism, 35 GPT, 52 gold, WM & TM. Traded Gandhi Radio for Economics, 90 GPT, 111 gold, WM & TM. Gifted Liz Military Trad. Gifted Catherine The Corportaion.

Turn 2 - All barb boats attack our ironclad. No more barbs. Investigate Beijing - US in 15. Investigate Canton - Coal Plant in 1. Investigate Lyons - US in 27. Investigate Karachi - US in 32. Investigate Banglore - Smiths in 48. Investigate Kagoshima - US in 66. With Canton finishing a coal plant next turn, I decide it's time to make the move. I gifted Catherine up to the MA. She got Rocketry. I traded Catherine Fission for Rocketry, WM & TM. Traded Mao Refining for WM & TM. Traded Joan Refining for 17 GPT, 50 Gold, WM & TM. Traded Joan Steel for 19 GPT. Traded Gandhi Refining for 27 GPT, 87 gold, WM & TM. Gifted Mao up to, and including, Fission. Did the same for the others.

Turn 3 - Japan lands a couple of cavs on our island next to the Russian city of Suo. France is building the UN. Many worker moves. Silks trade with China is over. Increase luxury slider to 10%. Investigate Canton - they are building Hydro Plant.

Turn 4 - Japan takes Suo from Russia. France, Japan, India, & China building the UN. Many worker moves. Pollution is starting to get bad.

Turn 5 - Nothing but worker moves.

Turn 6 - More of the same.

Turn 7 - We learn Computers - Ecology in 7. Some of the others have Sanitation.

Turn 8 - Jungles, Forests, & Railroads.

Turn 9 - Working.

Tunr 10 - Japan has moved ships close to Catherines Ice Palace. Since we have a RoP with Russia, I move our units to surround her city so Japan can't get there. Gifted Joan incense. Gifted Liz ivory. Investigate Beijing - UN in 13.

We have 2193 Gold. +114 GPT - Ecology in 4
We have 26 infantry, 15 artillery, 36 panzers, & 5 transports.

Here is the save:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Peanut_SG002_AD1350_01.SAV

Good job, bigchief! We got lucky with Fission, but leave it to the AI to build a Hydro plant right after finishing a Coal plant :crazyeye: It might have been possible to delay UnivSuff another few turns to see if Canton started UN after building it's Hydro plant; at some point it is time to move on.

UN in 13 means I get to set Keith up to do the deed. I've got it.

Another thought: should I let Japan finish off Russia? I'm not convinced we'd get her vote (we've done a lot of damage to Russia), and if Japan finishes her off, I think that generates some negative diplomatic effect which would benefit us if Japan is the other nomination for UN SecGen. What does the team think?

OK. I'm off to do the turns.

Here's the turn log:

Turn 0, 1350 AD
Not much, decide to keep Catherine in the Game (we need 4 votes with either 6 or 7 civs)
If Beijing builds UN, we have to take 2 Chinese cities; Hangchow is best border city to take

Turn 1, 1355 AD
Upgrade our Infantry to MechInf
Build more MechInf
Set up some Cruise Missile builds
Renew ROP with Russia
Gift Saltpeter to England

Turn 2, 1360 AD
Automating Workers (162 is a lot to handle every turn; most spaces are already improved)
Gift Saltpeter to France

Turn 3, 1365 AD
Nothing much.

Turn 4, 1370 AD
France starts Manhattan Project
We learn Ecology, start on SynthFibers
India lands a Spearman adj to our Tundra City

Turn 5, 1375 AD
Nothing much.

Turn 6, 1380 AD
Luxuries with Japan are up for Renewal.
Trade Ecology to Japan for 2 Luxuries, Sanitation, gold and WM
Trade Ecology to everybody else for GPT, WM's and Gold
Trade Ecology to China for WM and 80ish Gold.
Transports move to St Pete's; 2 turns to Indian zone near Hangchow
(and we get to land in Hills)

Turn 7, 1385 AD
Gift more Luxuries and Resources around

Turn 8, 1390 AD
Sign ROP with India, he becomes Gracious
Load up 10 Transports

Turn 9, 1395 AD
Land Forces near Bangalore in Hills
1 Settler, 4 Workers, 8 Cruise Missiles, 15 Artillery, 20 MechInf, 32 Panzers

Turn 10, 1400 AD
Learn SynthFibers; start on Rocketry with 1 Scientist
Income goes to +1271 gpt.
Workers build Road to get off Hill in India zone

END OF LOG

Here's the screen shot of Beijing I did right at the end (Gold has already been deducted from the save file.)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/PEANUTsg2_ad1400Beijing.JPG

They are 3 turns away from finishing UN. They have 4 Infantry protecting Beijing. OK, here is a screenshot of our landing zone, and my proposal for prosecuting this attack:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/PEANUTsg2_ad1400China.JPG

I put the Stars to show possible places where our SOD should be placed. I didn't think we should ever be directly adjacent to an Indian city; don't want to strain Ghandi's trust too much! It occurs to me that China will see our forces at any of the 3 spaces, so we should set up on the Hill directly next to China's border next turn, and use the workers to build a road off the hill the turn after (2nd turn). We'll then be ready to Declare on Turn 3, after UN should be finished.

So, just after they complete UN, that next turn, declare War on China, and get everybody else to ally with us; I'm pretty sure that any one of the extra Technologies we have should be sufficient. Once that's done, swoop down on Hanchow with Panzers until it is ours.

After that we have a couple of options. We can now use the tiles directly around Hangchow; this gets us within 3 spaces of Beijing, and the Panzers can continue the assault. Option 2 is to move the entire SOD to the space I've indicated with the lightning bolt, Abandon Hangchow, use our Settler to form a city within Chinese Culture. From this location, with a city, we are two spaces away from Beijing, allowing us to soften it up with Cruise Missiles and Artillery first before the Panzers sweep in. Only issue is if we take much of a Diplo hit for abandoning Hangchow.

Either way, we should own UN by the end of the turn, and there are 20 MechInf and some Artillery to move in to make sure we still own it the next turn. At the end of the turn I would turn up the gift meter; any loose Resources or Luxuries hand them out like Candy; give away any extra Technologies we have, give gifts of 100 or 200 gpt. Hopefully at the beginning of the next turn we'll get to call a vote, which we should win.

1400 AD Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Peanut_SG002_AD1400_01.SAV)

roster status:

bigchief
civ_steve --- Just Played
Keith Larson <---- UP!! (for possible last turn)
Peanut
Peglegasus
planetfall

I am wondering if it might not be better to declare on the turn before the UN is completed. He can call a vote on the turn he completes it. As far as I can tell, and as best as I can remember, I don't think China has been at war with anyone. If he calls for a vote, at that point, we will not have any alliances. Mao has a Rop with India and Japan. Our gifting may be enough to sway the votes, but some may like Mao better than they like us, despite the gifts. The only thing I can see that could go wrong, is that he could switch the build to something else if he feels threatened, though that would be really stupid, even for the AI.

The way I see it is that the worst case scenario for declaring before is that the UN wont get built when we expect it to, and the worst case scenario for declaring after is that we loose the vote and the game.

Something to think about.

bigchief: something to think about indeed. In fact we could take Hangchow the turn before, and have the bulk of the SOD just 2 spaces away from Beijing where the Cruise Missiles could do their job. An issue to consider is how much of a counter-attack you think China might have. Canton probably has made several Tanks by now, and they probably have 20 or so Cavalry; I don't think that will make much of a dent in our 20 MechInfantrys, especially with 15 Artillery defensive shots. Another possible down-side is if China decides to switch UN to Manhattan Project because of the attack and all the Alliances against them.

On the other hand, Keith could sign ROPs with everyone on the Turn before UN is complete. (In fact, I think he definitely should sign them!) That would counter the ROP's China has signed, and give the AI little chance to cause mischief. (There's big stacks of Units near our capital; some defensive units should be placed on all border spaces with France and England if we sign ROP's with them.) With all the other gifts we've given and are giving, that should be more than enough to sway the AI to vote for us if China calls a vote.

It's definitely a bit tricky!

He can't switch the build to the Manhattan Project because he doesn't have any uranium. Unless I missed some on the map, Japan is the only country other than us to have uranium. They have 2. I am assuming they are trading their spare to France, since she is building the Manhattan Project. Besides, if we ally everyone else against him, he can't trade for it anyway. So, if he would switch the build, it would have to be for something cheap, and he would waste all those shields, which is unlikely. Of course, it is also unlikely that we would loose the vote, should one be called. It probably doesn't really matter, but it may merit some further discussion.

bigchief: you're totally right about China not having Uranium (as can be seen in the screenshot above!) I think I gifted Uranium to France, just to make them a bit happier, so Japan still has 2, maybe.

OK, I'd agree the chance of them switching the build is pretty small. I'd probably lean slightly towards declaring the turn before, just to get all the Alliances in line before the UN is finished. Either way, I think we're good; and if China did call a vote and we won, that would be at least a turn faster, too.

Got the file. I will try to get to it tonight.

Keith

Finely orchestrated, CS. We are well positioned.

I reckon an early declaration of war would be more useful - it would ensure that we have everyone on our side and that we can capture Beijing earlier. It also means that if Mao calls a vote he will lose to us.

When we capture Hangchow we should use one our workers to build an airfield so we can airlift reinforcements if needed. That means we should upgrade any Panzers sitting around at home to Modern Armour.

One complication - if we own the UN, then the other candidate is the next biggest civ, which I suspect is Japan. All of our alliances against Mao will mean that he will abstain in a vote. The question is, how popular is Tokugawa ? How can we secure sufficient votes against him as well ? Do we need to set up an alliance against Japan or is that just plain getting silly ? Hmmm ....

Go and finish 'em off, Keith. I expect that my task, as next on roster and "volunteered" team bard will be to compose and publish our tale of triumph and glory

I suspect it will be Japan, also. Their War against Russia, coupled with our upcoming Alliance vs China will probably tip Catherine's vote to us. We would then only need 2 out of 3 votes between England, France and India, and I suspect that our gifting and the future Alliance vs China will gain us all 3.

Good Luck, Keith!

Keith, you're killing me, man!!!!!!!

I can't get to the game tonight. Please move to the next player.

Keith

Sorry to hear that Keith. Guess that General Peanut has had a field promotion to General-on-Duty. Stay tuned folks ...

Well, fellow Generals, you are back in the optimistic but somewhat inexpert hands of General Peanut. Seat belts firmly fastened please.

Strategy : Ok, war with China it is. next turn we will set up a cordon of troops on all border posts with France & England and sign ROPs with everyone. We will also make sure we are donating something to all AIs (except poor old China that is). Then we declare war and stitch up as many alliances as possible.

Pre-turn : Ok, border is sealed. It took 37 units, including some of our old original warriors. Our invasion force (except for 4 tired out workers) moves up to the Chinese border near Hangchow. We upgrade 33 Panzers to MA. Ok, here we go …

IBT : Well, stun me with an extra-strength Vindaloo ! Ghandi just declared war on us ! The swine ! He captured our four lone workers, and another on the island resort we share with Cathy. And the impertinent fellow bombed us out of Dacca. Ok, him first …

1405 AD : That irritating spear on the island is squashed in short order. A MA takes care of two rifles in Dacca, and we let an elite horse try his lance against the bowman. Alas no Leader, but Dacca is ours. We also confiscate Bangalore at no loss, recapturing our workers. We build an airport beside Bangalore and airlift in a modest 17 MA. The rest lurk around for home duty. The remaining idle Panzers in the invasion force are upgraded in Bangalore. We sign ROPs with France (polite), England (gracious) and Japan (gracious). Lets see what happens now …

IBT : Hmmm … when we took Bangalore, the border shifted. Our remaining invasion force is now technically in China ! Oddly, Mao objects giving us no option but … WAR ! Ok then. No Chinese attacks, and a few fruitless Indian attacks except that they take out a redlined Panzer parked outside Bangalore. I forgot to protect it … “d’oh” as the philosopher Homer would say.

1410 AD : We airlift a few more MA across, and our transports arrive home safely. We move our invasion force a little closer so that we can create a few fireworks in Hangchow next turn … hehehehe !

IBT : A few attacks from Chinese tanks and Indian cavalry & elephants. Little damage caused. Tokugawa is still harassing Cathy.

Oh yes ... BINGO ! The UN completes in Beijing.

The vote is called … we vote for Bismark, naturally, .…and we get votes from ourself, and also from Cathy, Lizzie (love dem ladies), and Tokugawa.

Mao gets votes from Joan (how could you Joannie, after all those expensive luxuries we showered on you ???), Ghandi (what a surprise), and Mao himself.

So we WIN 4-3 !!!! We are the Champions :king: nyah nyah Mao ! 5262 points in 1415 AD. And knock me out with a sauerkraut sandwich ! Sid reckons we are magnificent ! A Diplomatic Win, while at war with two civs simultaneously, and we didn’t even need to capture the UN ! Smooth, eh ?

1415 AD : Bugger. I’ve got 50 Modern Armor chugging away waiting for the order to march, as well as 8 Cruise Missiles and 15 Artillery units and now I have to pension them off. Ah well.

Peanut’s Comments : Thank you all folks for a very enjoyable game. I certainly learnt some new approaches to playing from the discussions and from seeing you all play your turns, and I hope that you all have had as good an experience.

Thank you all for being prepared to play under the “Peanut” banner – it may not be the most inspiring team name but I think we did OK in spite of it. We may actually avoid coming in last but don't get your hopes up too high folks.

The Final Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/Peanut_SG002_AD1415_01.SAV)

Congratulations, Team Peanut! :clap:

Since you were playing to the variant, score is irrelevent to you. You beat the Xteam to the finish by 150 years, and they played darned well!

Upload the save as soon as, and you can go and lurk in the rest of the threads.

Well played. :)

Well that was an interesting way to win! And you shaved 5 years off the end date, too!!! ;) (Just goes to show how the best laid plans ...)

Good Job Peanut, and team Peanut! :thumbsup: I can now go on my (all too short) holiday and [dance]

Well Done! What a great ending. :goodjob:

I learned tons about the game from playing with you all. Thank you so much for a great time.

Finally got my computer crud sorted out so I can play again. When's the next succession game? :)

Way to go team!!! Thanks everybody. It was a pleasure playing with this fine group.

SGOTM3 will be announced on 6th July. You will have 1 week to sign up and it will start on 13th July. Which reminds me, I'd better go and put the finishing touches to the game... :o

Since you were playing to the variant, score is irrelevent to you. You beat the Xteam to the finish by 150 years, and they played darned well!
Well done Peanuts! 31 turns! I'll read and learn from your detailed logs.

You did a good job keeping the other civs around while we exterminated four of them. Congratulations :goodjob: We'll get you next time!

Wow! What a dramatic finish, you guys :rockon: I can't wait to take some time to read all about it.

:salute: Congratulations!!

OK, I replayed it from the last save to see what would (might?) have happened if India and China hadn't inadvertently helped us out.

Turn 1 - Declare against China & ally everyone else against them.

Turn 2 - Capture Hangchow

Turn 3 - China builds UN. We capture Beijing and take it from them.

Turn 4 - 6 Nothing exciting

Turn 7 - France builds the Manhattan Project.

Turn 8 - 11 - Nothing

Turn 12 - India declares on us. Allied everyone against India. Destroyed Decca and captured Banglore.

Turn 13 - Japan & China sign peace. Japan and Russia sign peace. France is building SETI. Japan moves units into our territory on the island. Re-ally Japan against China. Gift Japan incense. Trade Japan Synth. Fibers for wines, dyes, gems, Espionage & 765 gold.

Turn 14 - Call vote. Bismark votes Bismark. Catherine votes Bismark. Liz votes Bismark. Joan votes Joan. Tokugawa votes Bismark. Gandhi & Mao abstain. We win 4-1 in 1470 AD.

Folks : On reflection it was a close thing. I also forgot (d'oh again) to try to stitch up alliances against Mao.

I suspect (as Bigchief showed) that the AI is programmed to not call a vote if they know that they will lose. This means that it was probably down to a random number throw for Lizzie, Cathy, Joan and Toku's votes, influenced by the AI attitudes towards us.

In other words, we probably came to within a hair's breadth of losing by one vote. How's that for skating close to the edge, eh what ?

Hope to encounter you all again in the next SGOTM.

You know, I'm a little curious about Gandhi's behavior. He was Gracious to us before these final shenanigans, yet he was willing to throw away Luxuries, Resources and a ROP agreement to capture 4 Workers! So, what if we'd left a MechInf behind with them? (He didn't attack when our SOD was present!!) Or how about 2? At what point does he decide to declare War? I'll check later, if no one else does. (Not at home right now, so not possible.)

Peanut: you are right! Think about it, we were at war with EVERY OTHER CIV at some time!!!!! Not the best way to go set up a Diplo victory. We lost Gandhi right at the end, which is probably why Mao took the chance. That and also because we had no Alliances against him. Well, according to bigchief's test, this cut 11 turns off the game, but it did make things real, real close. I'm a bit surprised about Joan, but Japan did come through, thank goodness!!

planetfall: I was afraid that would be the case. You've got a lot happening in RL. Thanks for the update, and take care. Perhaps we'll be starting SGOTM3 about that time, and we can run a hack-a-thon next time around! :)

This is a great team. I would not mind playing another game with the team after things settle down. We're flying back to CA Monday and trying to take M&D for one last outing. Naturally one brother thinks she is too ill and can't ride from Sac to Guerneyville. Yeah right. What will live a few days longer in Sac than on the road? At this point quality of short remaining time is more important that a couple of days tacked on end.

The city decided to mow the lawns at 5:15am on Saturday. Goodby sleep,
who needs that anyway.

Good luck, I'll check your progress at the end of the month.

PF

planetfall: The next game is a very good game, and doesn't start till 13th. Do you want to be put in the roster? With one skip you wouldn't need to play until August.

I suspect (as Bigchief showed) that the AI is programmed to not call a vote if they know that they will lose.

I played diplo in gotm 31 and carthage built the UN but didn't call the vote for about 50 years. There was one abstain, carthage voted for itself of course, greece voted carthage, and everyone else voted for me. I think the AI won't call the vote unless at least ONE other civ will vote for them. I think carthage waited for the vote because no one else was going to vote for them at that particular time.

computer back in order now and ready for some more action! i'd like to play the next one with you guys too! Go, Team Peanut! :D

Well I'm back home and I thought I'd take a look at a couple of situations that occurred at the end of our game.

First, Gandhi declaring war on us. In our SOD, only a few Workers have actually done anything this turn. We move everybody else forward leaving them exposed and India declares war. It appears he did this to gain a few cheap workers so I played around with defending them.

Case1: Leave entire SOD with Workers, no declaration (so it is tied to defense)
Case2: Leave 1 MechInf with Workers, still declares War
Case3: Leave 5 MechInf with Workers, still declares War
Case4: Leave 5 MechInf, 5 Panzers with Workers, still declares War
Case5: Leave 5 of Everything with Workers, no declaration
Case6: Leave 1 MechInf, 1 Artillery with Workers, NO DECLARATION.

So, in this case at least, the presence of 1 Defensive unit and 1 Artillery prevented Gandhi from attacking. The Artillery, for whatever reason, seems to be the key ingredient.

I also wanted to investigate the whole China building UN and calling a vote, or not, with India at war or not, and what sorts of diplomacy affected things.

First, assuming India is at war with us before we declare against China. I never quite followed Peanut's time line, and I never quite got a vote. In one case I got France and Japan allied vs China, and ROP's with everybody - no vote. Then I dropped the Alliances and sign ROP's with everybody - no vote. Then I signed a ROP with only France (since they switched on us, just to see if I can keep them on our side) - still no vote. So it appears that any improvement of the diplomatic status ended in a no vote. So I played it straight up, no diplomacy, and got a shocker: India gets Russia to ally against us, and we lose the vote, 3-4!!! The overall outcome is extremely sensitive to RNG effects; making or not making a particular trade or diplomacy deal can sway the results dramatically.

I also looked at what happens if we keep India from declaring War before we declare on China. I did the Artillery thing. In 1405 I moved everybody up to the Chinese border. In 1410 I declare on China, taking Hangchow, moving bulk of SOD to within 2 spaces of Beijing. All my units were either in or adjacent to Hangchow, or in Chinese territory; none were in Indian territory. India still declares War on us. I suspect China has a trade position to make to buy India into the war. China builds the UN, but doesn't call the vote.

I think it was really fortunate to win when we did; in a more controlled situation, I don't think China would have called the vote and we would have won according to bigchief's test results.

India ended up declaring war on us in my test. At that time there was no soft target anywhere. They were still in an alliance with us against China. We still had gifts going to them and active trades. They were gracious towards us. In Peanut's turns the unguarded workers were enough of an incentive for him to do it then. In Steve's test, there doesn't seem to be any rational reasoning going on as to whether, or not, to declare. In my test, when he declared, we had one stack, about 20 strong, consisting of Artillery, MI, and MA on the mountain near Hangchow along the Indian border. We had another stack of about 20 in the airfield that I built, and Hangchow and Beijing were both defended by a minumum of 10 defenders. I had even sent some Mech Infantries and Modern Armors over to our Island, because of the Japanese movement on the island, and both of our towns there were well defended.

I think Gandhi was determined to declare war from the moment he dropped the spear on our island, and was just looking for the right moment. The ungarded workers provided that right moment. In all the other cases, there was not really a "right moment", so I figure it was just a RNG thing as to when he declared war.

I have seen this behaviour by the AI in some of my games. I recently had a game where one of my neighbors sent some troops into my territory. There was no reason for them to be there, and I decided that they were going to declare war on me. I was much stronger than they were, but I really didn't want a war with them at that point, so I gifted them some luxuries and 50 GPT. I figured that would surely tip the balance in my favor, and they would go back home, rather than loose the gifts and ultimately commit suicide. They ended up declaring anyway.

It seems that once they decide to declare war, it is just a matter of WHEN rather than IF, and there is nothing that will change their mind.

Yes, in this set-up it seems inevitable.

It would be interesting to know if it was the ROP with India, and then the large stack of units, followed by us using the ROP to declare on China that generated the declaration of war from India. I'd have to go back to one of my autosaves from before posting the 1400 save to check that out.

I think just about all of us have signed up for SGOTM3, which will be an entirely different game!

I've started a game as rome playing with the next succession game rules and its quite fun. haven't gotten far yet (still in ancient age) but it's an interesting change for sure. trying to develop some good strategies...

planetfall: The next game is a very good game, and doesn't start till 13th. Do you want to be put in the roster? With one skip you wouldn't need to play until August.

Agreed, it looks like a good game. However, I must skip at least one SGOTM.

I have some Java that's too far overdue. Thank you for the gracious invite.

PF