SGOTM2 Game Thread

Welcome to your game thread for SGOTM2-Germany

Here is the start position.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM2-start-position.jpg

Each team has their own save file. Please download and play from the correct save. If you use the wrong save the server will not accept your submission. Also, please make sure that the software version is correct. PM me immediately if it is not.

You can download your save file >>HERE<<. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm_submission_list.php)

The Roster
ainwood
Karasu
Space
Zagnut

OK - I'll play in the morning (One NZ team in the Super 12 final, now got to go and see if we can make it an all-kiwi affair by beating the Brumbies in Canberra :hmm: )

In the interim: Any suggestions? Was going to settle on-the-spot, start a warrior to explore with, mine the bonus grassland to the Northwest and probably start research on pottery at maximum. Any complaints? :confused:

You could consider moving the worker on the mountain for a better look of the environment, maybe south or south-east is a better spot if the coast in the north turns out to be salty.

I favor settling on the start position and not first sending the Worker to the mountain. When you found the Berlin it will reveal the surrounding area and the Worker will not waste a turn on the mountain. She could go straight to the bonus grassland next to the river and start working.

Start game:

Turn 1: (4000 BC)
Compromise: Move worker to BG to check out terrain before founding Berlin. Find a wheat! :) Will get it on a culture expansion in current starting location. Decide to found on location. Berlin founding reveals game in area to east-south-east -> will also get that on culture expansion :D Start building warrior (5 turns) and researching will be Pottery in 14 turns (to get a granary).

Turn 2. (3950 BC)
Start mining BG.

Turn 3: (3900 BC)
<snooze>

Turn 3: (3850 BC)
<snooze>

Turn 4: (3800 BC)
<snooze>

Turn 5: (3750 BC)
Warrior completed. Pottery is in 9 turns, so consider starting a barracks as a pre-build, but decide on another warrior. Move warrior to mountain => water is a small lake. Presume it is fresh-water...

Turn 6: (3700 BC)
Warrior moves to mountain next to lake. Reveals a lot of plains to north west

Turn 7: (3650 BC)
Mining finished. Production moved to this BG from other BG. Warrior will be complete in 2, growth in 3 and culture expansion in 3. Start road. Warrior follows mountain range north => spies ivory on the plains!

Turn 8: (3600 BC).
Warrior north sees edge of rive on plains.

Turn 9: (3550 BC)
Warrior complete. Barracks can be built in 7, and pottery is due in seven. Will be some change when road is built and city grows. Decide to go for barracks as pre-build for granary. Northern warrior spies large lake / coast. Warrior from Berlin sent south-east (heading towards other mountains)

Turn 10: (3500 BC)
Berlin expands, revealing spices in the jungle. Road complete. Pottery now in 3, barracks in 4. Move worker to wheat. Northern warrior confirms that he can see the sea (although all that he can see is the bottom of the deep blue sea). Southern warrior is mountain-bound south.

Turn 11 (3450 BC)
Nothing much. More exploration but nothing of note found.

Turn 12 (3400 BC)
Pottery due next turn. Southern warrior reveals edge of jungle.

Turn 13 (3350 BC)
Discover pottery and change to the wheel. Change Berlin to granary (10 turns).

Turn 14 (3300 BC)
Northern warrior is cutting-back inland. Finds what in grassland. Southern warrior finds nice river valley.

Turn 15 (3250 BC)
Wheat irrigated. Have option of working game or wheat. Work it out, and decide that two turns on game then two on wheat will be best. Start roading wheat.

Turn 16 (3200 BC)
Southern warrior climbs mountain and find Catherine! :eek: She has one more tech than us (Ceremonial burial) but won't trade (we have nothing to offer :( )
Northern warrior finds another coast / large lake.

Turn 17 (3150 BC)
Between turns, spy english scout on mountains west of Berlin. Liz has alphabet, but not warrior code. Will give us all her gold (10) for warrior code. I decline.
Switch Berlin to work on wheat. Northern warrior confirms coast to be a lake. Southern warrior cuts east.

Turn 18 (3100 BC)
Road finished on wheat, cuts wheel research time to 17 turns. Worker moves to other BG to start mining. Berlin will expand next turn.

Turn 19 (3050 BC)
Berlin grows to size 3. Adjust luxuries to control happiness, although this pushes wheel out to 16 turns. Granary will be complete in two turns.

Turn 20 (3000 BC)
Not much!

Berlin: Granary complete next turn. Currently size-3, with 3 food and producing 3 excess food / turn. Producing 6 shields per turn, and will complete granary in one. SUggest next prioirty is a warrior for happiness control, then look to set up a settler factory?

England has a second city.

Edit: Save is Here (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/STAFF_SG002_BC3000_01.SAV) :)

Great, max score sofar. :thumbsup: Nice to see a settler factory is possible. :) Karasu: you're up here as well. Figures, it's the Karasu principle: when up in 1 game, you're up everywhere. :p

I have got it ("got it" alone was less than 10 characters :p )

Yes, but have you played it! :D

Yes I have! :lol:
Ehm... sorry for holding it. Not too long, though :)

--- Here it is --- (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/STAFF_SG002_BC2550_01.SAV)

The turnlog is fairly straightforward.

- I built a Worker, then a Settler while the warriors kept on exploring. I delayed the Settler to be ready on turn 10 to avoid Berlin to drop to pop 1: the Settler is now there with his movement left.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM2StaffK2.jpg

Our surroundings only look promising to the NW at the moment. Our most obvious pick for the second city is towards the Ivory.
I would also consider settling a city on the Spice along the river, to get a bit closer to Russia and secure a second luxury. Both locations are at RCP distance of 4.
Should we stick to this?

- The two workers completed mine+road on the BG and immediately went chopping the forest on the game tile: We are getting the 10 shields in 2 turns. I think they should be used to speed up a second settler; Berlin can then build a warrior or two -for MP and local exploration- while its pop grows back and the game is irrigated.

- At that point, I was assuming that Berlin would be our settler factory while the other core cities would mainly build Barracks/units and workers (I was also assuming that we don't want England and Russia on *our* continent :devil2: )
It was probably a bit early for me to start dotmapping, but...

- No trading chances appeared, nor did I make any new contacts.
I kept researching at 0 / -1 gpt adjusting the lux rate with Berlin's pop. The Wheel is due in 6 or 7 turns -btw, that was a very neat choice. Neither England nor Germany should have it, and we will most probably be able to reach parity.
At that point, what tech path should we follow? Maths and Republic or the Monarchy path?

Ops. I had another screenshot:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM2StaffK1.jpg

Looks good! :thumbsup:

Btw: We're averaging 17 views of this thread per post! :eek:

Btw: We're averaging 17 views of this thread per post! :eek:

Well... I came back a few times to edit my post, but not seventeen I think... :hmm:
Anyway, it must mean that our team is very popular :D Go staff!!! :band:


EDIT: for the record

Ainwood
Karasu
Space - UP
Zagnut - on deck, hoping Space won't finish the SGOTM this round ;)

Well, I was thinking about this. :)

Karasu mentioned RCP at distance 4. I was thinking that around Berlin is fairly crappy land at the moment (jungle) => it won't really become that productive until the industrial age / middle age when we can really throw some workers at it. Therefore, I don't think we should set Berlin up as the center of our empire.

Looking to the North / North east, there is a lot of space, and we haven't run into any AIs yet. If we get up there really fast, we might be able to set that as the center. Berlin then becomes a city on the ring, not at the centre of it. We can still settle up by the ivory at distance 4 or five, but use the second city as the center, going for an FP there (or even a palace jump) when we near the OCN.

If people like this idea, then do we go for a ring at RCP 4, or at RCP 5???

Got it.

I'll setlle near the Ivory first, RCP of 4 sounds good to me, but it does depend a bit on our goal. Are we going for the UN capture option? In that case we'll see the modern age and RCP 4 is better than 3. But if we'll just run for domination or conquest 3 is probably better also because of the large amount of mountains in our core.

The victory condition aim will also help to choose between Monarchy or Republic. Monarchy is more usful when we expect much warring, although the mil. police needed in bigger cities is a pain.

@Space: Is that to be near the ivory, but on the lake? (Save us an aquaduct later?) Given that its all plains, we should probably get that worker up there soon as well (and hook up the ivory). :)

I like the RCP 4 idea better.

Yeah, on the lake was the plan, I like cities that can grow without an aquaduct too. :)
The Ivory is a bit better than the jungle ridden Spices IMVHO.

Any specific reason why you'd rather have the ring at distance 4?

I think 3 limits production later on. There appears to be a lot of space up north, so I don't see why we need an ICS-type close build, so four seems about right (unless you want to go to 5!)

I didn't spot your earlier post Ainwood. I had to leave my post for a while and you seem to have posted in that time. My post doesn't make much sense now. :crazyeye: It's one of those days that I better not post at all..., but while I'm here, I agree the land up north does look better. The only downside to moving to distance 5 is that we'll have the second city later and the settlers streaming from Berlin will all have to travel bigger distances. I'd say let's do the RCP at 4, and let the second city be the center of the ring.
Karasu does have a point though about settling south too to block the Russians. They always tend to take a lot of land. But if we manage the Spice city I think all that jungle will be a natural barrier for the Russian settlers until they run out of room.
Maybe they will settle somewhere in the middle and we'll know where the rubber will pop-up. :rolleyes:

What's people's opinion of tech routes?

pre-turn
Move the settler NW, NW, NW.

IT
Zzz

2510BC - turn 1
Move settler N, next turn it'll settle between the Ivory and the lake.
Move Adam SW, revealing what seems to be the westcoast of the landmass.
Move Bart SE on a mountain, revealing no goodies.
Diplo check reveals no news, citizens are happy no growth to be expect next turn, so... press enter.

IT
Zzz

2470BC - turn 2
The chop is done. We can get a new settler in 3, but Berlin will drop to size 1. I MM to let Berlin work the newly created 3f tile.
The workers start irrigating.
Found Leipzig, it starts a warrior. We can now shave off a turn on research of the Wheel, it'll be ready in 3.
Adam moves east, Bart SE.

IT
A barb passes by. We have no defenders, hmm, interesting, it will no doubt head for our workers. It'll be there in eight turns, our warrior is ready in 9. :( They'll have to do a little dance.

2430BC - turn 3
Berlin grows, and needs 10% lux. The Whel still in 2 and we're making a profit +2gpt.
Adam E, Bart S, he too finds sea coast.

IT
The Barb Warrior fortifies. :hmm:

2390BC - turn 4
The Workers are ready and we've reach the magic number, settler in 1, growth in 1.
Adam SE, Bart E.
One worker starts a road, the other moves SW.
England now has Masonry too.

IT
The barb warrior moves off.
The Wheel completes, start IW. (Will check later if we can get Alphabet and start Writing instead.
Berlin settler -> Warrior

2350BC - turn 5
Move settler south, worker on the same tile to start the road later.
There's a Horse in the wonderful northern lands, not a hard choice now.
Adam SE, Bart sees a Horse too, moves NE.
Sell The Wheel to England for Alphabet, CB and 31g (all the money they have).
Sell The Wheel to Russia for Masonry and 1g.
What to research next? I finally choose Math (at min). We now have 40g in the kitty and making 6gpt.

question
The settler moving to the Spices should settle on a second ring position from Leipzig, but neither 7 or 8 will be on the river. How strict are we going to make the rings?

Don't see any reason why we can't make the first cities at distance RCP4, then the next ring at 9. :)

Since there were no other remarks I played the rest of the turns:

The save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/STAFF_SG002_BC2150_01.SAV)

2310BC - turn 6/
Adam S, Bart N
Settler S

IT
Zzz

2270BC - turn 7
Settler S
Adam S, Bart N
Berlin grows to size 3, lux slider to 10%

IT
Berlin Warrior -> Warrior

2230BC - turn 8
Hamburg founded on the Spice, starts Warrior.
Adam S, Bart N, Colin NW, NW, NW
No news on the diplo front, the English have another city.

IT
Zzz

2190BC - turn 9
Adam SW, Bart NW, Colin N
Switched Berlins production to settler. The next citizen can work a grass tile next to the river to get the timing right (I hope ;) )

IT
Zzz

2150BC - turn 10
Adam SW, Bart NW, Colin N

So, Berlin will grow next turn, make sure that the new citizen does work the grass tile, I don't think the governer will do so automatically. Remember also that Leipzig will be the center of the rings, not Berlin.
Here's a picture of our lands:

:goodjob: Space! Waiting for you to run was definitely worth... :p We're back with the high-scorers.

I totally agree with making Leipzig our future capital.
In the meantime, of course, Berlin is still our centre -we should try to build new cities around Berlin first, then proceed to completing the rings around Leipzig.
A few possibilities come to mind:
- A city W of Leipzing -just to contradict myself immediately ;) - to use the Flood Plains for a worker factory (we will probably need something like that in a short time).
- A city 3W and/or 3NE-1N from Berlin (RCP 4 from both Berlin and Leipzig).
- A city somewhere East of Berlin, if the territory there is good enough, at distance 4 from Berlin and 9 from Leipzig.

I am a bit worried that we won't get highly-productive cities around Berlin in the short term...
As for Berlin, I haven't checked if it could become a 4-turns Settler factory (has it got enough shields?), but I would only build settlers there now that it has grown back to a reasonable size.
What about Barracks in the other cities?

What about Barracks in the other cities?

Yup, I started Warriors first in case we need to protect our workers from barbs. We were extremely lucky this time. I agree that we need a Worker factory. The current core needs to be worked to become productive enough.

edit: the walking comment was on the turn-around time only, you've set things up nicely.

Well, we surely needed a few warriors too :)

P.S. I know you were complaining about my laziness rather than my game ;) ...but what can I do if all those ladies always want me to go out to dinner with them? :D

Aww, you poor thing. :p Just tell them you need to play this game for us and they'll automatically disappear. :D

You know, you are probably right! :lol:


EDIT: always for the record

Ainwood
Karasu
Space - Just finished expanding our beautiful empire
Zagnut - UP

...of course, not that a lady needs a special reason to suddenly disappear... :rolleyes:

Looks good Space!

What are the relative advantages / disadvantages of building round Leipzig now rather than around Berlin first? I would have thought that whilst we are below the OCN, then it wouldn't matter too much. :hmm: Two cities equidistant from both would be good.

I think that we should simply decide what victory type to go for, and aim for that now. Barracks in a couple of cities sounds OK - do we have horses? How 'bout building chariots for a massive knight-upgrade? Research to monarchy, generate cash and try and capture the GL to push us into the middle-ages.?

do we have horses? How 'bout building chariots for a massive knight-upgrade? Research to monarchy, generate cash and try and capture the GL to push us into the middle-ages.?

Horses are north of Leipzig, and there's still a bit of fog, so who knows? There might be more closer by. You'll probably can make it out on the rings picture if you look closely.

My vote is for the variant. We are not religious and we plan on getting big, so why not go the Republic route and stay in Republic the rest of the game?

Capturing the GL is always nice. :) It would be nice if one of our neighbours would be so kind to build it.

Republic is fine by me -> I guess we've got two luxuries secured already, and I'm sure we can get a third. :)

Well, I see you folks have been busy. I didn't have a chance to check the thread yesterday and just got home from work on Thursday (Friday for you Ainwood, I think).

I will take the game tonight and look more closely at where we are. But I have two quick thoughts on long term goals:

1) Don't decide yet on the UN issue, but play an honorable game - in that way we won't have a bad reputation and at the middle/end of the MA we can decide on what we want to do.

2) As long as we are not going to stay at war all the time, I favor Republic.

Ok then -> Lets shoot for republic. If we get literature on the way, lets trade it to someone like Russia so we can go claim the GL later. :)

Grab game at 2150 BC - I intend to explore to the west and east of Berlin to open up the fog some more. Ainwood met the English on turn 17 and that is the last we saw of them. Since he met them to the west that is probably where they are. It looks as if there will not be too much expansion to the south because we can already see the borders of Russia. But it is strange that there is so much land to the north. Perhaps also to the east. I would guess that we would be wise to devote all of our energy into populating this vast area as soon as possible. It looks as if the expansion phase will last a long time in this game.

I will follow your guidelines and expand on the 4th and 9th rings.

Here are the results half way through my turns. I need some advice. Russia and England have Iron Working. The will sell it for gold. England will give the best price at 109. We currently have 153. Should I buy or wait?

IT - zzz

2110 - turn 1 - Berlin pop grows to 5. Put new citizen to work on grassland. Increase luxuries to 30%. New pop increase in 2 turns will coincide with creation of Settler. Adam, Bart and Colin still exploring. I like naming them, but what do we do when we have 26???? : )

IT - zzz

2070 - Leipzig produces Warrior and grows to 2. Start Barracks. Worker completes road to Leipzig and I send him to Ivory square to road it so that we can reduce luxuries in the future.

Second Worker, south of Berlin, completes road through first jungle. Move him to next jungle to connect Hamburg to our empire.

IT - zzz

2030 - turn 3 - Settler produced in Berlin. I decide to send him west to a square 4 from both Berlin and Leipzig, on the theory that we should try to cut off the English from intruding into “our” northern lands.

IT - zzz

1990 - Bart heading north makes it to a mountain and sees the entire eastern coast. Also spots Goody Huts on the coast. Reduce luxuries to 20% - forgot to do it last turn.

IT - zzz

1950 - turn 5 - Colin, moving east, ends his turn next to a Barb village. Adam is finding nothing but mountains and jungle to our west. Berlin grows to 5. Increase luxuries to 30%.

IT - zzz

1910 - Found Konigsberg. Northern Worker completes road to Ivory. Send him to complete road to Konigsberg. Reduce luxuries to 20%. Getting 12 gpt. Colin attacks the Barb village and destroys it. He sees a river delta and flood plain approximately east of Berlin, on the coast.

England and Russia both have Iron Working but want 109 of our 153 gold in trade.

If we're making 16 / turn, then by all means buy it (if we're making 16 GPT) :) I think its important to know where the iron is, as we can set our strategy based on that. Having lots of excess gold this early in the game is pretty needless, unless we want to save-up for a massive chariot or warrior upgrade.

I think we want a massive upgrade and to know where the iron is. :)
From looking at the terrain I think we stand a good chance that we'll have iron and we could gamble and be :cooool: about it, with the settler factory working properly we should be able to grab a decent size chunk of land wuth high chances of iron.
Having said that, in the end 109g is about 5 upgrades IIRC, so is it worth the gamble? Maybe not.

Whats the change in price / turn at our current research rate? If we do agree on an upgrade, then its not critical that we know where the iron is in the next 10 or so turns.

Either is fine by me, Zagnut. Just make an executive decision. :)

... Adam, Bart and Colin still exploring. I like naming them, but what do we do when we have 26???? : ) ...
How about starting to give surnames... :crazyeye: :lol:


I like the idea of Chariots -> Knights; I rarely do that. I also agree that we should rather go for Republic.
Still, a mini-swordsmen upgrade may be nice... just to play a bit with our neighbours you know :D

So, how about this:
- try to increase science spending to get Mathematics as soon as possible
- expand peacefully
- gamble on IW and wait, building 10-15 vet warriors and only chariots after that (we need not know *now* where iron is)
- as soon as we get Maths, trade for tech parity and start Literature; upgrade warriors and pick a couple of cities and slaves
- Proceed with research towards Republic and the Middle Ages, and build chariots/horsemen

In my opinion, debatable points are:
- will we have we enough money for the upgrade and for "fast" research? We may want to drop the Swordsmen idea altogether. In this case, we could as well buy IW any time.
- Is it a good idea to research an optional tech if we want to get to the MA as soon as possible? On the other hand, if we capture the GL, then building Sun Tzu or Leonardo will trigger our Golden Age at a very convenient time...


Finally: I suggest that we mine one or two grassland tiles around Berlin, as it is still a bit short on shields. ehm... no, I haven't checked yet about the 4-t settler factory. Anyone?. Make another worker?

OK -> I'll check the settler factory options. :)

Edit: Quick check using Space's save shows that we have enough food (irrigated wheat + irrigated grassland with game). However, need another shield/turn: Need a bonus grassland hidden under forest, or mine a visible grassland, and that should do it. :)

Actually: Given some of the comments made, it wouldn't surprise me if Zagnut has it up-and-running....

@Karasu: So you suggest we hold-off buying the Iron Working? Perhaps we should go with one idea and stick with it: Chariot upgrades OR warrior upgrades. I'd favour chariots, because then we can concentrate on getting more cities in the short-term. There does seem to be a lot of 'free' land up north, and even to the east / south-east... :hmm:

You know what, you are probably right.

Both upgrades is probably trying to do too much. So, let's go with Chariots.

This also means that we do not need IW *now*. I mean, it is probably better to spend our money to speed up research of Mathematics, and do a good trading right after.

Literature after that is still tempting, but I am not really sure.

I also agree with expanding as much as possible. So, we should probably leave Leipzig, Konigsberg and Hamburg on Barracks - chariots and settle the flood plains for another workers / settlers city.

That sure is a lot of feedback. I must be in the wrong time zone. All you folks are talking while I am sleeping.

I wanted to make sure that I didn't strip all our gold if big upgrades were in the future. I will not buy IW now. Will also increase science spending. Cannot check the figures now as I am at work.

With regard to Settler production, IIRC we are now producing one every 5 turns and expanding population every 2 turns.

There is no other civ to our SE. All of that land to the coast is vacant. I have not explored to the north any further than was done by Karasu and Space. To the west there are just more mountains and jungle. Not very hospitable terrain, but certainly terrain where we can expect to find Iron.

That sure is a lot of feedback. I must be in the wrong time zone.

It's not only you... I have the feeling that everything happens while I am sleeping too! :D
But what can we do? There is only one Alan, the man who lives in all time zones... ;)

It certainly does seem as if he is everywhere. I will finish up tonight and let ainwood take over the Chariot building. At this point I think we need one or two more Warriors for protection from the barbs who must be lurking somewhere.

Another item of interest in this game is the GA and the timing of it. Since Germany has a (very) late UU we might need to think about the Wonder options available for us. The militaristic Wonders are quite plentiful but the first scientific one after the GL is Newton's Uni. This will be after the major military conquest phase (if all goes to plan), but will be useful to storm through the industrial age techs.
If we play the variant, we'll have to then pick a civ to tag along to let it build the UN for us.

My last post above was for the year 1910. The following is after that:

IT - A Barb Warrior appears N of Leipzig.

1870 - Move Delta, who was guarding both Leipzig and Konigsberg, onto the road so that he is in a position to attack the Barb on the next turn. Colin moves west to return to our core and ends turn next to another Barb Warrior. He is weakened from his attack last turn on the Barb village, so he will have to fight fiercely to survive.

Berlin grows to 6. Increase luxuries to 30%. MM Hamburg by borrowing their grassland to allow Berlin to still grow in 2 turns.

IT - Barb Warrior moves next to Leipzig. A Russian Scout shows up 2 squares away from Adam.

1830 - turn 8 - Delta moves into Leipzig and fortifies. He has to win this battle or Leipzig is pillaged as there is no other Warrior that can reach it. The Barb Warrior to the east, next to Colin fortifies. Colin is weak from his prior battles so I move him into the forest instead of attacking. Bart moves to a mountain and sees another Barb village along the coast. Adam moves further west and sees the border of the English.

A new Warrior (Echo) is built in Hamburg. Switch production in Hamburg to Barracks. Surprise, not all the terrain around Hamburg is jungle. One of the squares, to the N, NW is a forest. It sure looked as if it were jungle on my monitor. It was quite by accident that I clicked on it. That increases production in Hamburg.

Also, Bart spots Incense to the east of Berlin and Hamburg. I have a Settler who has just been born in Berlin but I don’t send her directly toward the Incense for 4 reasons:
1. There are too many Barbs in that area and may be more under the fog.
2. I am not sure whether the square I would aim for is on the 9th ring. I also do not know how to create the RCP map that Space has on the first page.
3. There are no spare Warriors to accompany the Settler.
4. There doesn’t seem to be any other civ that could possibly get to that area before another Settler is built.

With regard to point 2 I think we can put a city on a square that is currently under the fog that will be on the 9th ring from Leipzig and on a river. The Incense will be within its area once it expands. But that square may be one too far.

I send the Settler up the road toward Leipzig. If Delta defeats the Barb Warrior then he will accompany the Settler either N, E or W. It gives me more options, which I need with all the Barbs in the area.

IT - The northern Barb Warrior does not attack, but pillages our road on the Ivory.

1790 - turn 9 - Send Settler east to a forest square that is on the 4th ring from both Berlin and Leipzig. Colin can meet him and provide protection. Leave Delta fortified in Leipzig to see what the Barb does on the next turn. Bart is heading toward the Incense to investigate the area.

There is a square to the W that is between a Cow and Spice and is on a river. I think it is on the 9th ring from Leipzig, but can’t be sure of that.

IT - Northern Barb attacks Leipzig and is defeated. Adam spots an English Settler headed N, probably to get the Spices set forth above. If so, he will certainly beat us to it.

1750 - turn 10 - Bart moves onto Incense square and can see the river flowing next to it. Move northern Worker to the Ivory square to road it again.

Russia now knows Mysticism. Wants 170 gold. Both Russia and England want 110+ for IW.
___________________
The square I am sending the Settler to is highlighted. I think we need more Warriors because we are making Settlers too fast and they will have no protection when they set out.

Looks good. Where is the save (I can redo those rings). :)

OK: The new 'rings' picture is attached. :)

The square the settler is headed to is distance 4 from both Leipzig & berlin. Zagnut is also spot-on that the spice / cow square is at distance nine.

Shall I continue?

Glad to hear I was correct about the cow/spice. Unfortunately, the English are probably going to beat us to it. Is there a square next to the incense to the east that is on ring 9?

Also, does everyone know that you can get the saved game on the results page which is here: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm_submission_list.php - by right clicking on the latest score.

The results page can also be accessed from the Maintenance Thread on the main page for SGOTM2.

@ Zagnut: BTW: the rings thing is done with Dianthus' Civ replay suite (see his sig). Is that the in-game combat calculator in your screenshots?

Re the incense: Its at distance 11. Can grab it with a city at 9 and a temple. There is a point half-way between the incense & the wheat that could be ideal. Distance = 9, on a river, and a couple of forests for us to chop to build the temple. :)

Re the cow & spices: We have spices, so I guess the driver is resource denial. Should I make that a priority for the next settler?

My goal was to get the ivory hooked-up to help happiness (reduce dependence on the luxury slider) and then get some growth in Leipzig => its a bit slow at the moment. I also wanted to get the grassland in Berlin mined, to turn it from a 5-turn settler factory into a 4-turn one.

People happy with these priorities?

Woohoo, well done Zagnut! We are at the top of the list. [dance]
Just a little hint on the picture, Zagnut. If you save the picture as .JPG before you resize the text will remain readable. :)

Your priorities sound right to me, Ainwood. :thumbsup:

BTW -> What if I can buy workers? How much should I pay (100-ish)?

Buy workers if you can. Buying them works two ways and we do need as many workers as we can get ATM. I believe it's a standard price, but I'm not sure.

Any thoughts on the GA issue?

Well, if we can get a massive upgrade to knights, then trigger a GA by capturing some wonders shortly after that, then that might work. :) as you say though, it hinges on the GL. We need to capture it, so we need to ensure that the russians or english build it.... Should we try to steer them towards literature?

.. by capturing some wonders ...

I don't think that'll work. You need to build them to wonder trigger a GA IIRC.
Re the GL: yes, but other than researching writing an selling it, I wouldn't know how to steer them. Because we've started with Math at min I don't know if that is still an option.

What I meant is that we can capture the GL, then build a militaristic wonder (SunTzus?).

Should I look at a worker factory? Need to invest in a granary...

The current cities (save Berlin) do not have a lot of food but there *are* some flood plains north that would fit the bill nicely, maybe even without a granary (for the time being). Perhaps the settler after the one taking the cow could be sent there.

As found:
Leipzig: two turns from a barracks. A bit lacking in improvements, so will look to improve some plains.
Kongisberg: Worker in 6, growth in 6. Figure a warrior might be a better bet, because it is a fringe city. Also, will make a worker more quickly if its size 2 or three.
Berlin: Settler factory. Needs another shield square (will mine a grassland as a prioirity). I adjust to produce settler on growth turn (in two)
Hamburg: Barracks in 8. Will be on trade network in two.

Priorities:
* Get Berlin to a four-turn settler factory.
* Get more warriors built.
* Get a worker factory running.

Before turn: Barb comes out of fog near Colin. Will fortify Colin and let barb attack across river.

Turn 1: 1725 BC:
Fortify Colin. Other warriors continue exploring.

Between: More barbs appear!

Turn 2: 1700 BC.
Settler finished in Berlin. Start another one.
Barracks in Leipzig: Start warrior.
Move Delta from Leipzig to protect warrior.
Colin attacks barb and wins, getting promoted.
Changed tiles in konigsberg to produce warrior in two to escort settler to spice / cow.

Turn 3: 1675 BC
Found frankfurt. Set to build warrior.

Turn 4: 1650 BC:
Delta defeats barb warrior.

Turn 5: 1625 BC:
Adam, heading south-west spots pink border! Colin retreating towards frankfurt to head-off barb.

Turn 6: 1600 BC:
Barb attacks colin, but colin wins (down to 2 hp).

Turn 7: 1575 BC:
Settler complete in Berlin. Worker (ferdinand) complete in Leipzig. Moves to protect worker, because barb horse was seen.
Adam find Rheims. France has four cities, iron working and mysticism.

Turn 8: 1550 BC.
Frankfurt conpletes warrior (gertrude), and starts barracks.
Hamburg completes barracks and starts warrior.

Turn 9: 1525 BC
Barb horseman attacks Colin, and knocks him down to 2 HP.
Ferdinand beats barb horse. Mine on Berlin grassland complete => we now have a four-turn settler factory!
Bart beats barb horseman.

Turn 10: 1500 BC:
Konigsberg completes worker, starts warrior.
Ferdinand beats another barb horseman.
Munich settled, set to build worker.
Cathy has a worker for sale! :D 109 gold!


Summary:
We have 6 cities, 339 gold making 15 GPT.
Berlin is a 4-turn settler factory (exactly – no shields wasted!) and will produce another settler next turn.
We have a settler north-east of Leipzig at distance 4. It can settle next turn on-the-spot.
We have 148 points, second place to england on 163.
Have 3 workers, but can buy one.
First in pop, but 3rd in land area.
Russia has 3 cities, france 4 and england 5.

Eidt: Save is here (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/STAFF_SG002_BC1500_01.SAV)

I haven't purchased the worker! If we want it, that should be the first move on loading-up the save!

Great going, Ainwood! :thumbsup: I think we should buy the worker. Knowing France who knows IW should lower the price even further, but we'll probably be able to trade for it anyway when math comes in.

Got it. It was a good idea to give a look at the thread from home -now I have a good reason not to clean house today... ;)

I'll read the posts and either play or come back for more comments (internet connection from home is a bit of a nightmare).
Have a nice weekend everybody! :)

I'm posting a little late because you have finished your turn, but I was asleep. Every once in a while I have to do that.

From ainwood: Is that the in-game combat calculator in your screenshots?

Yes, it is the calculator developed by CivLackey. I love it because it floats anywhere on the screen that you like and is instantly available. I updated it to include all of the units in Conquests.

From ainwood: Re the cow & spices: We have spices, so I guess the driver is resource denial. Should I make that a priority for the next settler?

I am really surprised you were able to build Munich there. When I finished the English had a Settler headed directly for that spot. I wonder where he went?

Just a little hint on the picture, Zagnut. If you save the picture as .JPG before you resize the text will remain readable.

Thanks, I didn't know that. Obviously.

Ok, I've given a look at the situation :goodjob: and done some thinking -it's dangerous, I know, but I had to risk :D

Build orders
Should I change Leipzig and Hamburg to Chariot?
Munich is building a worker -would a warrior or Barracks be better instead?

Settlements and miscellaneous
Agreed on settling between incense and wheat (that's the tile 4E of Berlin, right?).
I would build one or two more cities around Leipzig first: what about the two tiles 3NW-1W and 3NW-1N respectively? The former could become a worker (or worker-settler) factory.
When are we starting a prebuild for Forbidden Palace?

We can have Mathematics in 10 turns at 90% science, -3 gpt or in 12 at 70% science, +3 gpt. We are now at 15 turns, so there seems to be no reason to change the research rate. I will check it during my turns anyway.

Berlin at pop 5 is making 7gpt, and it looks like the Settler is due in 2, while pop growth is in 1.
So I guess the 4-t Settler factory is at pop 5-5-6-6 if we mine another grassland :confused:

I'm all for buying the worker, but I can't remember whether we have to wait till 1000BC or not (will check MB's rules and proceed accordingly).

Golden Age and future plans
The conditions for a wonder GA are checked whenever you build a wonder.
So, our GA can be triggered through captured mil/sci wonders too, but we will need to build one ourselves -any one.
This clearly makes sense if the one we build is cheaper than those we capture... :D

If the AI don't research Maths in the next 10-15 turns, then they will probably have Writing by that time.
At that point, I think that the best thing that we can do to steer them towards Literature is to research it ourselves and then trade it or gift it.

So -assuming of course that the GL is built at a convenient distance- we will have to start the war and capture the GL before we build the military GW that triggers our GA (incidentally, if we follow this approach and the Great Wall is still available at that point, we should consider it. It is totally useless, but it costs 200 shields against the 600 of ST and LW).

On the other hand, given the cost of upgrading chariots to knights (100 gold per unit, IIRC), I'd like so much to have Leonardo before we do the massive upgrade...

How do we fit all together into a nice plan? :D

Berlin at pop 5 is making 7gpt, and it looks like the Settler is due in 2, while pop growth is in 1.
So I guess the 4-t Settler factory is at pop 5-5-6-6 if we mine another grassland :confused:

The shields gathered by the next pop is counted towards the item under construction, so the settler will probably complete next turn anyway (if ainwood has done his math properly. :p )

I think a plan is definitely forming now. I didn't know the captured wonders are considered when checking for a Wonder GA. It's a good knowledge to have... :thanx:

Sleep, Zagnut? Why? ;) But seriouly, we can ease up the speed a bit if you feel that you're not being heard in the discussion.

Sleep, Zagnut? Why? ;) But seriouly, we can ease up the speed a bit if you feel that you're not being heard in the discussion.

Obsolutely not. Let's keep trucking. By the way, where are you in the world?

I won't be able to respond to Karasu's questions, even though I am awake, because I have to go out for awhile. Responding would take some thought and I must leave.

By the way, where are you in the world?


I'm in the Netherlands, the same time zone as Karasu.

Build orders
Should I change Leipzig and Hamburg to Chariot?
Munich is building a worker -would a warrior or Barracks be better instead?

Since it is an outpost at this point, I would favor a Warrior, then a Worker to connect it to the other cities.

Agreed on settling between incense and wheat (that's the tile 4E of Berlin, right?).

I think so but you had better check with ainwood as he ran the RCP map and the post did not display that square. I would favor settling that square first. You never know when another civ's Settler will appear to try to grab the Incense.

So -assuming of course that the GL is built at a convenient distance- we will have to start the war and capture the GL before we build the military GW that triggers our GA (incidentally, if we follow this approach and the Great Wall is still available at that point, we should consider it. It is totally useless, but it costs 200 shields against the 600 of ST and LW).

I like your strategy but think it is too far in the future to really be able to plan anything in anticipation of it at this time. A civ on another continent could build the GL. I think the point is that we want to try and trigger our GA in the Middle Ages and will have to do it with a Wonder.

On the other hand, given the cost of upgrading chariots to knights (100 gold per unit, IIRC), I'd like so much to have Leonardo before we do the massive upgrade... How do we fit all together into a nice plan?

We can't plan to build Chariots in the short term as we need Horses and they are both far away. I would favor expanding north to get the horses. In the meantime we should build Warriors in case we have to do a Swordsman upgrade to protect ourselves. I agree that it doesn't seem to make much sense to increase science to build Math sooner. We just have to keep our fingers crossed that the other civs don't beat us to it. In the meantime, let's just expand as quickly as possible and get as much productive terrain under our control.

I'm posting a little late because you have finished your turn, but I was asleep. Every once in a while I have to do that.
Note to self. Zagnut is not Alan's DL> :)



From ainwood: Is that the in-game combat calculator in your screenshots?

Yes, it is the calculator developed by CivLackey. I love it because it floats anywhere on the screen that you like and is instantly available. I updated it to include all of the units in Conquests.
Got to get me that. :) Too much of a pain calculating it myself off-line before attacks. And when I get lazy, I often get it wrong... :(


From ainwood: Re the cow & spices: We have spices, so I guess the driver is resource denial. Should I make that a priority for the next settler?

I am really surprised you were able to build Munich there. When I finished the English had a Settler headed directly for that spot. I wonder where he went?
Well, I presume you are talking about the settlers that 'adam' was next to. It did an about-face and headed south-west. I followed, and found the french (I presume you were sending adam that way to spy on the english & russians to find resource locations etc -> had a good outcome! :D )

[size=1]You know what, I vaguely remember playing this game in the GOTM. I remember wiping out the russians very early on, but remember very little else.... Except getting into a protracted war with? :confused:

Ok, I've given a look at the situation :goodjob: and done some thinking -it's dangerous, I know, but I had to risk

Build orders
Should I change Leipzig and Hamburg to Chariot?

No horses! The horses to the north-west of leipzig are at distance 9 from Leipzig. :)


Munich is building a worker -would a warrior or Barracks be better instead?
Fine by me. Munich has a warrior already (needs naming!) I went for a worker because munich grows in seven and the warrior is in 10.


Settlements and miscellaneous
Agreed on settling between incense and wheat (that's the tile 4E of Berlin, right?).See attached pic. Its 4 tiles direct east, but on this grid, a picture is easier to interpret for a simpleton like me (I'm a 'visual' person!)

I would build one or two more cities around Leipzig first: what about the two tiles 3NW-1W and 3NW-1N respectively? The former could become a worker (or worker-settler) factory.Sounds good, although if we can rush a temple in the one 3NW-1N then we can get the wheat and share flood plains. Maybe that should be the first one? A bit of culture might help our cause as well...


When are we starting a prebuild for Forbidden Palace?
I was concerned that Leipzig is still not overly productive -> It needs some of those plains worked. But I agree that we should pre-build. Do we want to get the rest of the 4-ring finished to close-off leipzig from barbs, then start the pre-build?


We can have Mathematics in 10 turns at 90% science, -3 gpt or in 12 at 70% science, +3 gpt. We are now at 15 turns, so there seems to be no reason to change the research rate. I will check it during my turns anyway.
Has anyone checked what techs that the English, French and Russians are 'most likely' to be working on? This reasoning seems retty good to me though!
Berlin at pop 5 is making 7gpt, and it looks like the Settler is due in 2, while pop growth is in 1.
So I guess the 4-t Settler factory is at pop 5-5-6-6 if we mine another grassland :confused: It will work ;) We need 9 shields to produce the settler. We make seven / turn at the moment, and will get two bonus for the added citizen (it will be added to the roaded forest), hence we'll get the settler next turn. FYI -> this settler was produce in 4 I think....

Size 4: Work two bonus grassland, irrigated plains with wheat, irrigated grassland with game for 13 food (net 5 surplus) and 6 shields per turn. On growth to size 5, we get a bonus two shields, so after two turns, we are at size 5, with 14 shields.

At size 5: Need to MM production to change worker to work mined grassland (the the worker is currently roading). We are then working two bonus grassland, irrigated plains with wheat, irrigated grassland with game, mined grassland for 15 food (surplus 5) and 7 shields per turn. Two turns of this gives us 14 more shields (for a total of 28), but on growth to size 6 we get two more when the citizen is added again prioir to the settler popping.

So: works fine, as long as we remember to micromanage when the settler is popped, and when the city turns to size 5. :)

I'm all for buying the worker, but I can't remember whether we have to wait till 1000BC or not (will check MB's rules and proceed accordingly). Is this a SGOTM rule? I guess i should have read them... I presume this is because in Vanilla Civ the AI sells workers much more cheaply?


Golden Age and future plans
The conditions for a wonder GA are checked whenever you build a wonder.
So, our GA can be triggered through captured mil/sci wonders too, but we will need to build one ourselves -any one.
This clearly makes sense if the one we build is cheaper than those we capture... :D

If the AI don't research Maths in the next 10-15 turns, then they will probably have Writing by that time.
At that point, I think that the best thing that we can do to steer them towards Literature is to research it ourselves and then trade it or gift it.

So -assuming of course that the GL is built at a convenient distance- we will have to start the war and capture the GL before we build the military GW that triggers our GA (incidentally, if we follow this approach and the Great Wall is still available at that point, we should consider it. It is totally useless, but it costs 200 shields against the 600 of ST and LW).

On the other hand, given the cost of upgrading chariots to knights (100 gold per unit, IIRC), I'd like so much to have Leonardo before we do the massive upgrade...

How do we fit all together into a nice plan? :D
That's the big question! We need to know what the AI is researching. :hmm:

Edit: Had to remove smilys cause I had too many...

Got to get me that. :) Too much of a pain calculating it myself off-line before attacks. And when I get lazy, I often get it wrong...


If you want it go here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=82511 That is the thread I posted with the updated units for Conquests. But it also contains a link to the original thread so that you can download the combat calculator. It is a simple, elegant program that does it all. Use the original calculator and not the beta version that he was developing toward the end of the thread. The beta version was never completed and has many bugs.

CivLackey disappeared shortly after his last post and has never been heard from again.

Got it! Thanks. :)

Pre-turn
:D Of course, no horses => no chariots... :smoke:
I will swith Konigsberg to Barracks anyway -they are due in 20, while the warrior is in 10.

Setting up a worker factory will take some time, and we need more workers now. So I think I'll switch Leipzig from Warrior to Worker -it is using unimproved tiles.

And, of course, let's buy the russian worker! I checked the rules and Mad didn't mention this... I can't remember when or where I remember discussing the topic. Well, whatever: Ivan is ours for 109 gp
Yuk. I will settle the site 3NW-1N which seems a good location, then send the second settler towards the Incense.

Note to self: remember to MM Berlin!

Turn 1 - 1475 BC
Berlin builds the Settler :D Great work, Ainwood :hats_off:
Berlin is working a forest tile (QED). I tell them to work the irrigated wheat instead.

Heidelburg is founded -> Barracks

Ferdinand moves one step NW to the target position of the new settler, only to find a barb camp right on his face... Hermann ;) fortifies in Munich.

IT
This world is surely full of Barbs!
Leipzig: Worker - Warrior

Turn 2 - 1450 BC
Colin moves towards a barb camp.
Bart stays in the area where our next city will be founded.
Ferdinand fortifies, while Adam and Echo keep on exploring.

Uh-oh. The world (but France) is up IW, Myst, Writing and HR. Mathematics could be in danger...

IT
Hamburg: Warrior (Jurgen) - Warrior

Turn 3 - 1425 BC
Delta must attack a barb warrior on a mountain, or choose between workers and Konigsberg. He valiantly beats his foe and is promoted to Veteran!

IT
Nothing much

Turn 4 - 1400 BC
I have divided our workers in two groups: the first is completing some improvement around Leipzig and will proceed to connect and improve Heidelburg and the next city.
The second one is going to provide one-two irrigated tiles to Konigsberg. It can probably go and connect Frankfurt and the wheat-incense city after that.

I increase science to 90% (-3 gpt). Math due in 9.

IT
Berlin gives us another settler.

Turn 5 - 1375 BC
Nuremberg founded, dispersing a barb camp. Ferdinand is there to defend it.

I set Nuremberg on Barracks, because a Temple seems to take too long at the moment (see end comments).

IT
Ferdinand casually beats a barb warrior + horseman, promoting to Elite
Our people want the Forbidden Palace! Maybe we should... ;)

Turn 6 - 1350 BC
Colin disperses an Angle encampment for 25 gold
A barb horse appears across the river where Bart is. Bart fortifies on a hill. Our settler stands behind him, waiting for the battle...

Having nowhere to go, Adam enters English territory in his desire to explore. Elizabeth will not be pleased...

IT
Leipzig: Warrior (Kurt) - Worker (vetoable, as it won't complete during my turns. Another warrior, or even the FP are ok)

The stupid barb horseman does not attack but moves north

Turn 7 - 1325 BC
MM Berlin to work the BG instead of the forest. Tricky, this thing. If it were a solo game, I'd have already forgotten...

Kurt fortifies in Leipzig, Bart follows the barb horseman. The settler cannot move this turn.

IT
Hamburg: Warrior (Luitpold) - Worker (the city grows next turn, then it will have 0 excess food)

Turn 8 - 1300 BC
Move settlers and workers.
Elizabeth is polite again, France has discovered HB. It would be nice to get Maths before they discover Writing.

IT
Bart is redlined but wins against this annoying barb horseman. The new city can be founded.

Turn 9 - 1275 BC
Berlin gives us another settler. Wow, I didn't forget the MM this round! [dance]
I send it towards Leipzig.

Cologne founded - Temple

IT
Frankfurt, Munich: Warrior (Manfred, Norbert) - Worker (vetoable)

Turn 10 - 1250 BC
Adam is expelled from English borders towards Munich.
Echo has been going south-east for a while, but he didn't find anything interesting.
Colin is looking for the Marcomanni tribe near Cologne.

Notes
- We have a settler heading for the Flood Plains area. It can go either in the desert tile or where Kurt is waiting. Up to the team.
- Three workers are in Berlin -I was moving them towards Cologne, with the idea of connecting Frankfurt from there.
- Norbert is going to Leipzig - Heidelberg (not on auto, though).
- We are 3 turns away from Maths, and no one has it yet.
- Oh, and... remember to MM Berlin every other turn! ;)
- We have 13 warriors, and we are rated average compared to England, stronger than Russia and France.
- Where do we settle next? I think 1 and 2 are in line with our plans so far, but it will take some time before they are connected. Also, I didn't really prepare a good escort for them -although Norbert and Luitpold can quickly be brought in position for that.
2 is on our second ring too, and on the river. It could be actually settled first, to expand our borders without having to build a Temple in Nuremberg.
3 could be founded just to fill a gap. At a distance of 3SE-1S from Berlin, it would still be on the second ring from Leipzig.
Then, should we go towards '?' or to the desert west of 1, in order to block any English expansion into 'our' area? Or towards the Flood Plains East of Frankfurt? Plenty of options...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SKOTM2.jpg


*** and the save *** (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/STAFF_SG002_BC1250_01.SAV)

Ah, how nice it is to see our blue blob growing in size. :)

I got it, but wait for the result of the discussion before actually playing. I like the sight of spot 2, our chances for 1 look good anyway. I think it's best to let Leipzig complete the worker first and start the FP after that.

Hmm, no comments?

Some questions then: Math will be in, in 3 turns. When we are in time, hopefully we'll be able to trade for the techs that are out there now. Literature next? Writing has been out there for a while now, will we even have a chance to be first? In other words, doesn't one of them (most likely England or perhaps France) will go after it anyway?

In my earlier comment I said I'd like to settle 2 first, since we'll have to build the roads too before we can connect the Horses, I don't think this will make a difference in the availability of the Horses, agreed?

After these two cities, I'd like to settle a bit closer to Berlin to have the towns up and running earlier. I feel that we need to send another scouting warrior up north to check whether there's a Civ up there to claim the northern lands. I *think* we probably would've met them by now, but we'll only know for sure if we've been there. We need to know ho far the land streches anyway.

Sorry, I needed some sleep too (yes, I admit I do that too, only once a week though :D ).

I think going for 2 and then for 1 is ok. Not so much that we risk loosing the horses over there, but if we wait too long before connecting them we will end up with 200 warriors and no chariots to upgrade... :ack:

How about a second ring city on the coast in the '?' area, or NE of Frankfurt, to start (pre)building a boat?

Agreed on the scouting of northern areas. We need that to secure the settlers' path anyways. Call for a couple of volunteers ;)

Re: science.
Tough call. My bet is they have been going for MapMaking or Mathematics -I have the impression that Literature is often neglected (at least, it is when I'd need them to research it for me...).

If we want to make sure that Literature is available as soon as possible, I still think we need to research it ourselves and not rely upon the AI.
The risk of course is wasting those turns if they do research it after all and we find ourselves without a good tech trading opportunity and nowhere nearer Republic or the Middle Ages.
As an alternative, I would therefore pick Philosophy or Code of Laws, but that's not obvious of course, as Construction/Currency could have better trading value; I would avoid Polytheism, even though the AI seems to ignore it somewhat, as it has been available for some time already.

My take: Build teh other 4-distance city to the north-west of Leipzig. Building at 2 then on the horses is a good option, as long as we don't get beaten to the horses! I presume we're starting the FP as soon as leipzig finishes the worker? (as an aside, given that that will reduce pop by one, hence produciton by (say) two shileds per turn, how much is that costing us in terms of extra time to build the FP? Should we cancel the worker?)

That said, we need workers badly.

UI'll just head-off and see if I can work out that AUI research thingy, and guesstimate what the others are researching. :)

OK: If the spreadsheet is right (remember, there is a random element):

Russia is most likely researching Map Making. After that, it will probably go for literature.

France is most likely researching writing. Then it will go for mapmaking & lit.

England is most likely researching mapmaking, then lit.

Not a lot of variation there.... :hmm:

Amazing. So we can safely presume the AI will all go for mapmaking then, so we stand a chance with lit. but only if we'll research it full blow. I will let it depend then on the amount of money we'll be able to get if we're the first to have Math. If it's a decent amount I'll go for lit. if not I'll do philo.

Or maybe we should consider Construction and the Great Wall? Decisions, decisions. :)

I agree we should explore up north. Also think we need to get some more Workers, but not in Leipzig, which should keep its pop high for the FP.

On the tech issue, I also find that the AI sometimes doesn't research Literature unless you tempt it by researching it yourself. That said, I would prefer to research Philosophy or COL to be on the route to Republic and then trade those techs for the others and hope one is Literature. At the rate we are expanding I am confident we will soon be the tech leader and then the Great Library doesn't have much value. I would bypass Literature at this point and just head for Republic.

Thing with the GL is that we can use it for a Wonder-triggered GA later. I feel we have a good chance that our part of the world will have the highest tech speed, this being Monarch. I guess I'm saying that I feel we should gamble on the others to get Lit on their own and build the GL for us.

pre-turn
Switched Leipzig to FP.
Move lux to 0% for break even income.

IT
Zzz

1225BC - turn 1
Colin finds the Barb camp.
MM Berlin, Settler moves on the target tile.
I break up the group in Berlin, we need 3 workers to make optimal stacks, but the workers are so spread that this will cost too many turns. Berlin itself only needs a road on the mined grass and no further improvements. Sorry Karasu.
Slider goes to 50% science for +8gpt, Math in 2.

IT
Barb Horsemen move away.

1200BC - turn 2
Colin disperses the camp.
Hannover founded, starts worker.
Math in next turn, diplo check:
Russia has 0g and knows IW, Writing, Myst and HBR and is cautious.
France is polit, has 7g and the same techs.
Cautious England has 125g and the same techs again.

IT
England wants us to remove Adam, sure! :)
Math comes in, start Currency for the time being.
Berlin Settler -> Settler
Hambur worker -> Warrior
Koningsberg Rax -> Warrior
The Russioans start the Pyramids.

1175BC - turn 3
OK dealing time:
Sell France Math for IW, Myst and 7g.
Sell England Math for HBR and 44g.
Sell Russia Math for IW.
So now we are at tech parity and we have 419g in the pocket.
We have not 1, not 2, but 3 sources of iron, all on mountains, England has a source too.

This is where I find out the mined grass already has a road. :blush: Major :smoke:, sorry guys.

IT
Frankfurt Worker -> Worker

1150BC - turn 4
Colin barely survives the attack on a barb warrior.
The settler is on his way to site number 2, workers are paving the road.
Norbert is the volunteer to go north, young man, north.
Diplo check reveals the France has dispersed a camp.

IT
A Russian scout seeks refuge from a barb warrior on our land.

1125BC - turn 5
Norbert reveals a cow!
MM Berlin.

IT
Adam is attacked by a barb and survives.
A Horse appears near Hannover

1100BC - turn 6
Norbert moves to protect the Workers and the settler.
Russia and England know Mapmaking, noce prediction, is France researching Lit? we'll have Philo in 4.

IT
Kurt defending Hannover is upgraded to elite.
Berlin Settler -> Settler

1075BC - turn 7
Norbert is too far away, the settler will have to make a detour of 1 tile, allowing Norbert to cover it and the 2 workers.
Hamburg will build a Warrior next turn, wake defending Jurgen to take Luipolds place in Berlin, send him away with the new settler.

Since the barb Horsies are threatning our coffers I decide to do some more wheeling and dealing:
Buy MM from Russia for our WM and 128g.
Sell WM to France for WM and 25g.
Sell WM to England for WM and 12g.

Russia has no Iron and will not have any in the near future, Will get to Iron in due course.

IT
Hamburg Warrior -> Warrior
Koningberg Warrior -> Warrior

1050BC - turn 8
Philo jumped for ready in 3 to 1, ohoh. They all know Philo, darn.
Adam disperses a barbcamp on a mountain. A gamble that worked. :)
Echo is killed attacking a stray warrior, it all evens out in the end, doesn't it.

IT
The Barb Horse kill our work on the Rax, it would have been ready this turn. :(
Philo comes in, start Literature

1025BC - turn 9
Otto kills the other Barb Horse.
Norbert kill another.
Bremen founded on spot 2, starts Temple.
Have a long think about the tech, decide to take the plunge and do Lit at max (9 turns at -4gpt). I could've also done a min to make it easier to switch psychologically, but in the end it's still only one turn.

IT
Munich Worker -> Worker

1000BC - turn 10
QSC stats:
11 Cities
1 Settler
8 Workers
14 Warriors (2 Elites)
1 Granary
4 Barracks

Nice! :D We're back in the lead! :goodjob:

OK - a couple of thoughts. :)

Does the settler have a warrior escort? It is heading towards a barb camp.
Is that a worker near Cologne? If so, should it cut some trees to speed the temple?
What can be done to speed-up the production of the FP? Leipzig will grow to size 4 next turn (When will happiness become a problem? Size 5?). However, it looks like it will then be working some unimproved plains. Should we try to get them irrigated? We can then grow a bit faster, and maybe get the FP a few turns earlier.

@ Zagnut: BTW: the rings thing is done with Dianthus' Civ replay suite (see his sig).

I have a question for you on Dianthus' program. I went to his website to download it. He displayed a lot of different programs, but I think I finally figured out that there is only one - the Replay Suite (which is what you said above). I downloaded it, unzipped it and now cannot find it. Does it install into the Civ directory? How do you load it on your computer?

In answer to some of your questions:

The Settler is protected by two Warriors.

I will try to get some Workers to the Leipzig area to improve squares so that we can build the old FP faster.

Hopefully, I can get this RCP mapping program running so I can figure out where to build the next couple of cities. Without that I would be lost. I have never used the RCP strategy because I never had the patience to count the squares and could never do it correctly. I also prefer to build in what I think is the best place. But I can see that it really makes a difference and the placement of the cities is not unrealistic at all. Now I just need to figure out how to run Dianthus' program.

On the tech issue, I thought we had decided to go straight for Republic. But we are now researching Lit. Is that the will of the majority?

There is still so much land available do you think we should build Settlers in other cities? I have always been partial to grabbing as much land as fast as I can. I can never remember playing a map where there was so much land available.

I am also going to found a city on the coast and start a Galley so that we can go exploring.

Your thoughts on all of the above please.

The easy one first: If you've installed dianthus' program, if you go to the save file and right-click on it, there should be an option called 'rings'. Just click on that, and it will open his suite, and show you the save. :)

Zagnut: My reasoning behind Literature instead of CoL is this: seemingly at least one of them (but probably more) is focussing on that path too and we need Literature to be known on this continent. Plus I don't recall a clear decision on going for Replublic. As I said in my report, there's only one turn of research in Lit so it doesn't hurt too much to change. I still think Lit now is the least bad option, but you're at the wheel now, so ultimately it's your choice.

On settlers from other cities: we are finally able to build enough troops and workers. I don't know if that leaves room for more cities on settlers. It would give us even more of an advantage, though. So I guess what I'm saying is, as long as the troop/worker production can keep up, by all means build more settlers.

Good going :goodjob: Hard luck on Philosophy!

The galley city: is there a second ring location east of Bremen's cow?

Research: I agree on heading to Republic as fast as possible -I'm no longer sure now that the straight path is the shortest -if some AI is researching CoL after Philosophy, we will be duplicating their efforts once again.
And we want them to know Literature... On the other hand, if they are researching Lit right now, it will be even worse :ack:

More Settlers: good idea. What about Hamburg? But how long will it take to build a Granary there?

The galley city: is there a second ring location east of Bremen's cow?


No, all distance 9 tiles have mountains. :sad: There's an ideal spot on distance 8. :cringe:

I give up on Dianthus' program. Could someone post a new ring map. I must be ring disabled.

Sure, here it is:

that spot hidden by the FOW north of heidelburg is distance 9 I believe....

Right, well spotted! I thought it was sea, but I think now it isn't. Too bad the volunteers to go north were caught up in defending settlers, cities and workers.

Interesting bit of info from Alan in the training game thread. :) Is it true? I admit being too lazy to really get to the bottom of the corruption thingy in PTW. We might want to do a palace jump by disbanding Berlin (:eek: later, later, don't worry) I have never done this trick (exploit... :p) before, and maybe this is a good occasion.

Thanks for the map, ainwood. Sorry to be such a bother.

I may be ring disabled, but I have done a palace jump and they work. You just have to be mighty careful. There seems to be no end to the north in this game. How about settling on ring 13 up there. It seems to go from west coast to east coast.

Hey, I must be getting up in the world, I'm being mixed up with the boss.... :smug: ;)

Sorry, space. Didn't mean to offend you. I'll get that map program under control, but I just lost patience with it today.

Interesting bit of info from Alan in the training game thread. :) Is it true? I admit being too lazy to really get to the bottom of the corruption thingy in PTW. We might want to do a palace jump by disbanding Berlin (:eek: later, later, don't worry) I have never done this trick (exploit... :p) before, and maybe this is a good occasion.

Well, I sure hope it is! :ack:

I'll go off and confirm. :)

The Horseman N of Munich is troublesome. Hopefully he will not pillage Munich. I leave research at Literature.

IT - 2 more barb Horsemen and one Warrior show up. They are all on mountains. We now have 4 barbs threatening our cities. This is an immediate problem.

975 - turn 1 - I move a Warrior and Worker back into Munich. Up north I move Luitpold and Ferdinand into Bremen. The barb Horseman will now have to attack across the river. Move Settler and 2 Workers into forest SW of Bremen in order to save their lives. The Horseman can’t reach them in one turn. Also move Otto to protect them. The final barb is threatening Hamburg, but it is currently protected and the barb has a Russian Scout to distract him.

Worker east of Frankfurt finishes mine and I send him to Leipzig area. Settler is finished in Berlin and starts north to found city on the coast.

Colin attacks the goody huts on the east coast and disturbs 2 Warriors.

Reduce science to 80% without increasing the 8 turns to Lit. Gold goes to -1/turn. Trade WM to France for their WM and 18 gold. Trade WM to England for their WM and 3 gold.

IT - None of the barbs attack. The southern one retreats into the fog. The northern Horseman chases the Settler instead of attacking Bremen. The two near Munich pass on to other mountains.

950 - turn 2 - Luitpold kills the northern Horseman. The 2 Workers go back to work building a road to the horses. Luitpold will accompany the Settler to the horse square. Norbert moves N and ends turn next to a barb Horseman. I say goodbye to Norbert. At Munich I risk Hermann in an attack on the barb Horseman on the mountain and he wins. Colin is not attacked and starts the long trek home.

IT - Norbert is killed.

925 - turn 3 - MM Leipzig to reduce FP from 54 turns to 39 turns. Settler and Warrior still moving toward coast.

IT - Colin is attacked and survives on a mountain. A new barb appears to threaten Nuremberg.

900 - turn 4 - Frankfurt produces Warrior. I name him Jason.

I move the Warrior protecting the Settler to Nuremberg. The Settler will have to wait. There are just too many barbs coming from all points of the compass. It is adversely impacting our ability to expand. I suggest we concentrate on building a lot of Warriors for a while and pushing back the fog.

Still cannot reduce science below 80%. 4 turns to go for Lit. None of our friends have it yet.

IT - zzzz

875 - turn 5 - Must move Warrior to Hannover area to protect Worker from barb Horseman. Settler must wait again. New Settler born in Berlin. I begin moving him to the square on the western coast next to the fish. It is on ring 9.

Hermann attacks and destroys a barb camp near Oxford. Adam destroys a barb Horseman.

Found Stuttgart on the horse square. Barb camp nearby. Will try to send 2 Warriors to attack.

IT - Horseman bypasses Nuremberg and threatens Heidelburg.

850 - turn 6 - Jurgen kills the Horseman. Reduce science to 70% +6. Russia has discovered COL. Settler going north to Galley city finally set out from Heidelburg.

IT - Barb Horseman attacks Warrior escorting Settler to Fish on west coast. He dies and Warrior is promoted to elite. I am sorry to report that good old Adam died a heroes death defending against the attack of a barb Horseman.

825 - turn 7 - Move some Warriors around. Pop increase in Berlin and MM. Pop goes to 5 and need to increase luxuries to 10%. Reduce science to 50%.

IT - I screwed up. I left 2 Workers unprotected up north and a barb Horseman came out of the fog and killed them. Sorry folks. They were just about to connect Stuttgart to the road system.

800 - turn 8 - Move some more Warriors and Workers.

IT - We discover Literature. Berlin produces a new Settler. I will start him north and let ainwood place him. There is a ring 9 square on the northern coast of the cove SW of Stuttgart.

775 - turn 9 - Found Bonn on east coast (finally). Start work on Galley.

Trade Russia Lit, WM and 131 gold for COL. France has no gold and England only has 18. Neither will trade gpt. Start research on Republic. At 80% and -1 we get it in 25 turns.

IT - French complete the Pyramids and start on the Oracle.

750 - turn 10 - Move some Warriors around.

A priority should be to get rid of the barb camp to the west of Stuttgart. I am moving Warriors to that area. Also need to get a couple of Workers up to Stuttgart to connect it to the road network and be able to produce Horsemen. Should also send someone up north to explore. I was too busy with the barbs to get anyone up there.

Well, despite losing the workers, it still looks pretty good. :)

What should my priorities be? Should I just carry on expansion? Areas for discussion: Should we turn Berlin into a 2-turn worker factory for a few turns (although it will waste some shields)? Should we abandon building the FP in Leipzig and Palace jump instead.

What Alan was referring to is Qitai's exploit: It does no harm in having cities in rings about the FP, but if you move the palace away, it has little benefit. The easiest way of remembering the system is to note that distance corruption is simply the distance to the closest of the FP and Palace. Rank corruption calculates the distance of every city to the nearest of the FP or Palace, then ranks them in terms of the distance to the REAL PALACE.

And what should I do with tech? Just keep researching at max for Republic, or go for a balance between cash & research (still looking to build chariots). :confused: I <hope> that someone will start the GL soon.... (do we still wanna capture it?)

Well done, Zagnut. :thumbsup: I was releived to see that we got to Lit first. :)
And you being able to trade for CoL is even better!
If we abandon the FP we need to look for a useful goal for the shields we gathered...

I'd keep Berlin on settlers. Hannover should be building workers. The first worker should irrigate the floodplains. There's a nice spot east of Berlin on floodplains too, we could designate that new town to workers too.

The advantage of going to republic a soon as possible is a hopefully shorter anarchy period. So I'd say full speed to Republic.

Did you ever surprise yourself trying to right click on an image posted in this forum to see units or terrain info? :crazyeye: :ack:

Wow, Zagnut, well done founding new cities with all that barb traffic out there! :thumbshup:
And good news on the tech side, even though we have to mourn the loss of Adam...


I would try to get to Republic asap too, especially if we can make some more money dispersing barb camps and trading world map.

I wouldn't also be against a couple of workers from Berlin, even if I don't like breaking our settler production line too much. So, I guess any choice will be fine.

About the FP -well, if we do manage to build it in Leipzig, we can later Palace Jump from Berlin to somewhere else without having to rely on a great leader. If we PJ now, how do we deal with the FP? On the other hand (why must there always be another hand), moving immediately the Palace to Leipzig would increase productivity in our cities... :hmm:

So... Yes we need more warriors for our "peaceful" northern expansion. Ideally, we should probably use Horsemen for this, and later on proceed with the upgrade and conquer our little continent -yes, including the GL: I mean, France built us the Pyramids, should England and Russia not do anything at all? ;)
As things are now, it will take some time to have enough horsemen, so I would consider upgrading just a few warriors to Swords. They won't be left idle, anyway...

Did you ever surprise yourself trying to right click on an image posted in this forum to see units or terrain info? :crazyeye:

I do, I just tried to scroll the map... :lol:

I like the idea of jumping the palace to Leipzig now. The earlier you can be productive the better. Jumping the palace would increase our productivity dramatically (I think). We could then build the FP in the north or use a captured city for it in the future.

I had switched production in a couple of cities to Workers to replace the 2 I lost. Therefore, I would leave Berlin as a Settler factory. Also, connect Iron and upgrade Warriors to Swordsman so that we can team with some Horsemen and eliminate the barbs. Once the barbs are a little more under control we can invade our neighbors.

Well, will jumping the palace really help that much? It will give an incremental corruption benefit, butr will destroy our settler factory! :eek:

We could 'jump' it by just building it. Not attractive, but possible. Maybe our best option is to finish the FP and admire our nice but useless rings. :) It's no loss really. The early FP will be beneficial, and a palace jump a good plan for later. :) Look at this this way, we get to build nice rings in other places too! :cool: ;)

The rings aren't useless! Certainly the outer rings aren't. It is simply that cities that are closer to the FP than to the Palace have their rank calculated using the distance to the FP and the rank from the Palace. Essentially what it means is if we move the palace to (say) London, and have a ring of cities at distance 4 from it, then we could have placed our cities around the FP at distance 2, 3 or 4 at no real penalty. Having them all at four doesn't really matter. :)

That's what I meant. They are not useless now, but they will be, after we've moved the Palace.

Actually, they'll be more useful once we've moved the palace! They still do the same thing for corruption, its just that we didn't need to be so rigid with the placement. And spacing at '4' is good for land-use. :)

I won't pretend I know it all about corruption, so I'm glad leave the reasoning to you. :worship: It was more or less what I was saying, we have a nice set of cities in good spots. It would've been bad if we'd not found the right harbour city spot and decided not build it because of the rings. Since that is not the case, we can continue as before, and with even more confidence. :)

Maybe this discussion will have an impact on the southern cities-yet-to-be-build. We have a lot of good land to fill before we need to head in the jungle. Too bad there isn't an industrial AI to do the chopping for us. :)

I do, I just tried to scroll the map... :lol:

:lol: :lol: Glad to hear that! That means we are probably close to a Civ overdose, us addicts! ;)

BTW, what about starting to expand (just a little bit) towards Russia... :devil2:

Well, give me instructions, and I'll go play.... :)

My instructions are to do your best.

:eek: Far from me to even think of giving instructions to The Boss!

I am not sure we all agree on the FP. It seems that Space and I would rather let Leipzig build it and Palace Jump later on, if I have understood it correctly. I am not sure that this is the best option, of course, but if we are going to expand peacefully for a while, then I don't see many alternatives.

On the other hand, I was wondering how long will we keep on expanding peacefully... (I'm glad Ted is not here to read this -for some reasons he strongly believes I am a warmonger of sorts... :confused: ).
So, we could build a little more military units and train them against the barbs in the north while we expand there; or we could build those units and expand a little to the south (say towards Russia, just to name one ;) ) and train our armies against the other AIs. This would mean to postpone settling the northernmost part of our continent, probably -or at least delay it.

I'm not sure which course would give us the better results, though -including the highest likelihood that another AI builds us the Great Library. If we could conquer the Pyramids, though...

From what I've understood from the turnlog, Russia is the only one (beside us) who knows Lit, so they are the only ones who could start it at this point. Also *if* we were to fight Russia we should make sure to gift Lit to the other two, to make sure Russia doesn't use it to MA the others against us.

We *do* need that drool smiley, owning The Pyramids.... now that would help big time. :)

edit: Look what TF gave us: :drool: I don't think I'm gonna use it that much though, it think it is kinda yucky.

OK -> I'll play later tonight (In about 12 hours). I think we should just build teh FP in Leipzig (its not that many turns away!). :)

Ops. My fault. I thought we had given Literature to everyone in the contintent.

I was not pushing for an early war anyway, just suggesting an option to be discussed :D

I've gown fond of early wars. Pruning the AI in the early stages means less worries later on (unless you're going for Diplo :) ).

As Found:

Considered gifting literature to France and England, but noticed that france has built the pyramids in Paris, yet russia is still building them! Will wait and see if Russia switches to the Great Library. :)

Stuttgart has two warriors, and was building another. Switched to worker. Ditto for Hannover. Bremen is very corrupt (need the FP!) switch it to worker as well.

Hit space....

Russians building the great library! :D Barb comes out of the fog north of Bremen.

Turn 1: 730 BC
Micromanage berlin to ensure happiness and settler factory.
Identify locations for next two cities. Start mining some plains to help FP in Leipzig. Move warrior towards horseman (on a mountian, hopefully horse will attack it!)
Seems like russia sold literature to the english dirt cheap...
Look to get a warrior to Berlin so we don't need to MM luxuries.
Otto goes barb hunting.

Turn 2: 710 BC
Another horse appears! Ferdinand attacks first horse and kicks ass!
Build a couple more workers. Have started building some spearman in place of warriors as pre-builds for horsies (going to get the horses hooked-up)
Found salzburg, at RCP 9.
Hannover switches to barracks.


Turn 3: 690 BC
Japanese have completed the Oracle => I'd suggest that this will cause a wonder cascade...
barb Horse attacks ferdinand, and he barely fights it off - loses 4 HP! :eek:
Finish settler in Berlin.
Otto disperses the barb camp, but not before losing 3 HP!
Russian have polytheism! Wants approx 200 gold plus world map. France has it as well.
Switch Bremen to Barracks


Turn 4: 670 BC
France & England both building GL!
We lose poor Otto to a barb horse.
Found dortmund. Has iron in city radius.
Finish first mine near Leipzig, which reduces FP built time from 28 turns to 19 turns.

Turn 5: 650 BC
English start building Colossus
Colin beats barb, but gets hurt. Get promoted to Elite.


Turn 6: 630 BC
Settler built in Hamburg. Decide to send it to fence-off the russians.
Colin finds barb hut when climbing mountain -> he's too injured to attack, but should be OK on mountain and across river.

Turn 7: 610 BC
Horsies hooked up! Change pre-builds to horsemen. Barb horsemen heads towards a settler.
Start chopping forest to speed barracks in Bremen.


Turn 8: 590 BC
Cologne finished temple. Set to barracks.
Found Brandenburg, set to worker. Have warrior from Frankfurt protecting it.
Sending warrior / settler off to try and stop russians getting horsies


Turn 9: 570 BC
Iggy attack barb horsie -> Across a river and in forest! :eek: Needed to to save 4 workers. He wins comfortably.

Turn 10: 550 BC
First horsie produced! Send him towards Hamburg to mass on Russian border.
Found Zagnutopia near russians in a nice river valley.
Ferdinand disperses barb camp, but might get smoked next turn (horseman next to him, and he only has 2 HP).
Colin attacks barb camp and gets knocked to 3 hp. Barb camp still has horseman in it.


We are 11 turns from republic at -2 GPT. We could change to 12 turns @ +3, but I haven't (yet) done this. We have 324 gold.
We have 1 settler, 12 workers, 20 warriors and a horseman. We have 5 horsemen in production, as well as 6 barracks. We have 17 cities.
England and france are stepping-ahead in culture. Russia is weak, as is france. England is average. We have horses, and will have iron in about 3 turns.


Thoughts: The GL is being built in London, Paris & Moscow. Moscow is a food factory -> it has virtually zero shield squares, whilst London & Paris are much more conducive to building stuff. I expect one of those cities to build it.

We are starting to build a horse army, but we are around 30-40 turns from a decent size one. The world will be nearing the middle ages by then, so we need to decide if we are going to try to wait for knights, or maybe go with horsies early (Russia might be a good target). We could upgrade some warriors to swordsmen to help this.

I'm not sure if we can't speed the FP by a few turns by switching from growth to shields -> we have a little bit of flexibility. :)

Looks great! :clap:

First thoughts:
Where do you want me to send the settler?
What should we do with our money?
a. Upgrade (a few) warriors
b. Keep researching as fast as possible
c. Purchase tech(s)
d. Save them for the Knights upgrade
e. Any combination of the above

More ideas later on, after my afternoon :coffee: (don't I like the new smileys... :D )

BTW, have you noticed that we are still one silly point behind team DGIT?

Good job keeping the barbs at bay Ainwood. I like the new city's name.

Yeah, 1 point behind the leader is a very good place to be. :goodjob: We'll make a jump somewere. I agree we should take on one of them in 30-40 turns (from the graph I'd say the Xteam is fighting ATM).

Elly has Construction which she'll only sell for lots of money. The other two don't know it yet. England still lacks CoL. Maybe we can buy Poly from France or Russia, sell it and CoL to England for Construction and sell Construction to France and Russia for the money they now have (both 200-ish and what they will get from us in the Poly deal). We also can just wait for Republic.

edit: BTW Karasu, Hannover can use some MM for 1 turn to get two extra shields, work the forest.

Yep. It does really look like a good trading opportunity; I definitely think I'll try some trading.

I still have to see the save, but it may not be worth spending money on upgrading warriors.
On the other hand, upgrading 5-10 swords may be good to avoid being attacked by England. And if Russia is so far behind, has no Iron nor horses, and is not likely to build the GL... well...

I'd like to have some Swords in our collection. The end of the era is nearing and I feel he have to prepare for a massive uprisings. I dunno if we can spare some troops to patrol the North to try and direct the uprisings the AIs way.

BTW I'm glad you want to try and make the trade, it's getting harder every day not to read the first spoiler. :cringe:

Besides, the sooner we get to Chivalry... :devil2:

Actually, you made a good point regarding the massive uprising. It's going to be a *lot* of barbs from all directions and I doubt we would be able to defend against them. It would be best to have no dark areas in the north, but what about the eastern jungles?

EDIT: Oh, btw, I didn't say it but I got it :twitch:

It will be very difficult to patrol every region on the map which has no cities. If we have some spare units we can cover some ground but not all. If we have some swords we might be able to train some. If we don't have enough units to defend we might have to have a bait city and make sure that we don't have money at that point. The bait city should not have ant improvements and ideally should be on wealth. We'd need to estimate when (within a few turns) the last tech is researched.

edit: I sooo like that smiley. :) Thinking about it, it would be bad to have Chivalry but no Horses and/or no money. Building Knights is very expensive.

Found Zagnutopia near russians in a nice river valley.

I am honored that you would see fit to name one of our great cities after me. I will have a look at the saved game as soon as I return from work.

Take your time. I'm going home tonight and won't be able to play until tomorrow: plenty of time for instructions... :D

I am honored that you would see fit to name one of our great cities after me. I will have a look at the saved game as soon as I return from work.
We got around to 'new berlin'. I figured we all need cities named after each other, and by getting in first, I can pick the one with the best pseudo-pun value. :)

There are barbs south of cologne in the jungle. With a few horsies we might manage the north a bit better (maybe slap a city up there).

For the settler heading south, I was aiming to put it next to the horses by the russian border (horse denial). :)

Ok. I'm having lunch and then jump on the laptop (metaphorically... :D ).

Pre-turn
What about switching Salzburg to Galley... and rushing the one we are building in Berlin

Buy Polytheism from Joan for WM + 174 gold
Elizabeth won't sell Construction though; I give her CoL and Poly for a what little gold she has so that the other AIs won't take advantage of the deal. The Middle Ages will have to wait though... sorry about that :sad:

Press Enter and...
...goodbye Ferdinand. Jurgen will take revenge, that's for sure!
Berlin: Settler - Settler
Bonn: Galley - Galley (just in case our first one gets sinked. Can be changed of course)

Turn 1 - 530 BC
Colin fortifies.
The new settler will go east towards the Iron (you never know)
Warrior and Settler move towards russian horses
Our galley starts sailing treacherous seas... There are LOTS of barb ships around :eek:

IT
Bremen: Barracks - Library (40 turns against 30 for a horsemen. Feel free to change it anytime: I felt that we would like to have a border expansion in this area without settling between Bremen and Bonn.

Turn 2 - 510 BC
General unit movements
Our Galley's path is more or less forced by the barb ships moving all around... :ack:

I rushed another Galley in Salzburg. I promise I'll leave them alone from now on ;)

IT
Konigsberg: Horseman - Horseman.
Salzburg: Galley - Worker

I think I will send the new Horsemen north and as many warriors as possible south: the Horsies are better suited to face barb horsemen, and if we want to conquer a few russian cities, it's better to have some swords in the area.

Turn 3 - 490 BC
Colin disperses a barb camp, but a barb horse was lurking in the woods behind it.
Jurgen kills the barb horse and takes revenge for Ferinand's death.

Ainwoodburg founded in the heart of darkness...
and set to Warrior.

I need to set lux to 10% to prevent riots in Leipzig, at least until Kurt arrives there.

IT

Turn 4 - 470 BC
Technology report. France has Construction too, Russia is on par with us.

Founded Nieuwe Ruimtevreemdheid ( :crazyeye: ) to deny Russia the horses. Library.
The location is not ideal, but if I settled along the river it would have been either too far from the horses or too close to Minsk.

Sell our WM for maps and 13 gold. Set Science a notch higher: Rep in 6 at -5 gpt
I have to lave a Galley at sea to avoid barb ships...

IT
...but it stays afloat! :yeah:
Berlin gives us another settler. It is surprising that I haven't forgotten to micromanage it yet!

Turn 5 - 450 BC
I cannot see any compelling spot for the new settler. In the end, I sent it to the Cologne - Brandeburg area. Now that our rings around Leipzig-Berlin are complete, it won't make too much of a difference.

I was also thinking to build one or two more cities towards Russia, again to speed up connection of that area. But we will need to send a few more workers and units there, so this is not urgent.

IT
Cologne: Barracks - Horseman
Titanic survives a barb attack

Turn 6 - 430 BC
Munich is connected to our capital. Workers are improving around Konigsberg, Nuremberg and Heidelburg

IT
Santa Maria is redlined by another barb Galley.

Turn 7 - 410 BC
Republic now in 3 turns at -3 gpt

Our ships are still sailing proud.
Sell WM for about 16 gps

IT
Can't remember. The usual stuff, I guess... :D

Turn 8 - 390 BC
Move units around. A barb warrior is trying to sneak into our territory.
Santa Maria has reached a nice jump point on the westernmost tip of our continent for her suicide run.

IT
--- The Great Library is in London ---
The English have started the Great Wall too.

Turn 9 - 370 BC
Dalandzagdad founded (I know it's Mongol, but didn't anyone miss having to write its name? :mischief )
Set it on Barracks, but consider it simply as a prebuild.
Colin is there to offer protection.

Santa Maria makes its try. Titanic will be ready in two turns...

IT
Paris cascaded to the Great Wall and completed it
Santa Maria survived!

Zagnutopia and Ainwoodburg: Warrior - Barracks (vetoable)

Turn 10 - 1250 BC
Aargh! Those sea tiles were going nowhere! :cry_of_desperation:

We discover Republic. I do not revolt immediately, as a couple of cities are just one turn from completing their horses and the FP is due in 2.


Notes
A few points for the team to discuss.

Technology
Germany and Russia have Republic, while England and France have Construction.
I set research to Monarchy at min, and increased lux to 10%: it can be changed to anything without much loss, but I think we can use the next turns to make some money (hoping anarchy is short).
Note that if we bring lux back to zero, we will need more garrison in Leipzig (and watch Berlin).

I was hoping to be able to wait for Currency to come out and trade for it + Construction with Republic. What are the chances that Russia does the trade?

Btw, Russia is in anarchy right now. Should we revolt as soon as Leipzig completes the FP?

Barb uprising
It surely is coming...
By the looks, there are little chances of defending ourselves agains the massive barb uprising. I suggest that we spend all our money on upgrades and let them ransack a bait city, as Space suggested.

Settling
I am still in doubt between settling north, east or towards the other civs. During these turns, I have done a little bit of everything.
We currently have a roaming settler, close to Leipzig and heading north.
It can go anywhere, though (that's actually the problem!). If we decide to go to war against someone, it will probably make sense to settle in their direction.

Wars and Wonders
I managed to place four warriors in Hamburg, plus another one coming from Leipzig within a few turns.
We have forur horsemen in the northern cities (now sitting there), which is enough for scouting and dispersing, but certainly not in case of uprising.
More horses are coming on line, and they probably belong to the our southern regions...

The idea was of course to be ready for a limited upgrade and a short war on Russia if we believe that we won't be able to hold the uprising.
On the other hand, will this impact our plan to conquer France (Pyramids + Great Wall) and England (Great Library) with an army of Knights?

Miscellaneous
- Production in Bremen and Bonn should be reviewed (well, in any city if you think I left questionable builds actually).
- I had in mind to send the two workers off Brandeburg to connect the Incense and Dalandzagdagdadagadagdzagzdaggdzgdgdgazd).
- I had high hopes on Santa Maria, but it failed to discover a new world so far. Wish best luck to Titanic (the name won't help it ;) )

This is our world

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SKOTM2-2.jpg

--- and the save --- (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/STAFF_SG002_BC0350_01.SAV)

I would favor switching to Republic after FP is discovered.

I would think that the barb uprising would come from the north or the southeast. However, doesn't it sometimes go after the other civs. I don't recall having much of a problem with barb uprisings in any of the recent GOTMs I have played.

If we attack Russia first we can cut off the SE part of the continent from France and England and possibly keep it for ourselves.

We're #1 and by a decent margin too. Great work Karasu. :hatsoff:

I still favor the Russians as our first target. The GL will not go anywhere and as long as we don't reseach Education it has also other uses until we build the military Wonder. Not a wonderful sentence but I hope you know what I mean.

Why are we researching Monarchy? I think we've a better chance with Currency. I know the AI usually doesn't want to trade government techs but we don't need it, and the pointy stick will do wonders. I noticed France has Construction, but lacks Republic, and has a little money. Does somebody see a reason not to make the deal?

I agree to revolt as soon as the FP is ready.

I like Nieuwe Ruimtevreemdheid! But I don't think the others will, Karasu. :lol:

One of the abilities I lack is knowing how many units it takes to fight a decent war. Will say, 8 Swords be enough? I guess it depends whether our aim is to eliminate Russia or just 'prune' her.

I don't know how many units it takes to guarantee success. But I usually plan enough units to take the first city from the enemy and be able to withstand its first turn counterattack. When I look at the current map I see we have 193 gold. The only city that has more than one Warrior on the Russian front is Hamburg with 4. Each upgrade to Swordsman takes 40 gold. So we could only upgrade 4 Warriors at the present time. The two easist targets are Odessan and Minsk which each have a pop of 1. However, they are probably defended by 2 Spearman and therefore we would probably need 6 Swordsman to be able to take and defend the city against a Horseman counterattack.

It seems to me that we should start planning that attack by upgrading Warriors to Swordsmen and moving those Swordsmen to the hills next to Odessa for an attack. Perhaps change one or two of the Horseman to Swordsman. We should also road to Zagnutopia to facilitate access to the war front.

I think we should trade Republic to the French for Construction. They will undoubtedly discover it before we can invade them. Then we should research Currency, bypassing Monarchy. I don't think we want Monarchy because we intend to stay in Republic for the rest of the game (maybe switching to Democracy).

Wow. Great going Karasu. I just checked the maintenance thread and you have really put us far ahead of the other teams.

We're #1 and by a decent margin too
I think that a good part of these points comes from the extra settler that I inherited from Ainwood. ;)

I still favor the Russians as our first target.
So do I... I just didn't want to seem the one who is pushing a peaceful nation into war :D

Why are we researching Monarchy? Does somebody see a reason not to make the deal?
Weeeeell... my wish was to be able to trade for Construction and Currency while running a few turns at min science to pile up some cash.

A monopoly on Republic should have allowed this, as I think the AI are researching Currency right now. Unluckily Russia has Republic too, and it may be risky to speculate on their not trading it for a while.

But I was on my last turn, so I had the privilege of not having to do this trade.
And, based on the above, I left min science on a tech I assumed no-one was researching: it might have had better trading value once we got it, assuming we decided to pursue it with some more funds.

I have nothing against trading Republic for Construction (and gold), and starting Currency.

I like Nieuwe Ruimtevreemdheid!
;) I hope I got it right!

But I don't think the others will, Karasu. :lol:
That's why I went for Dalandzagdad right after that :rotfl:

The two easist targets are Odessan and Minsk which each have a pop of 1. However, they are probably defended by 2 Spearman and therefore we would probably need 6 Swordsman to be able to take and defend the city against a Horseman counterattack.

You are right there -but it's going to be an Archer counterattack until the Russians find horses somewhere :evil:
Actually, I would really like to take Moscow and turn it into another settler factory (+ palace jump?).

I can't say for sure, but what about a total of 8-10 Swords, with a few of our horsemen behind to provide support in case we are left with "the last defender" or a Russian archer manages to sneak past our front lines...

Selling Republic to England should give us more money, by the way. And there is no point in not doing that if we trade it to France.

And as you say, we need to bring workers down there. Settling one or two more cities in the area could help us speed up the connection.

Oh, by the way -good luck with the ships :fingers_crossed:
...and don't forget to sell our World Map if you make it!

You are right there -but it's going to be an Archer counterattack until the Russians find horses somewhere

Good point, I didn't notice the Russians lack of Horses. That makes an invasion even more tempting.

I haven't posted an 'I got it', but I do. I will play tonight (in apx 8 hours). Instructions and/or requests are welcome. :)

With so many cities, barb uprisings possible and a complicated economy, I think we should resist the tempation to micro-manage each other. Therefore, my advice is given in broad generalizations: Proceed with plans to invade Russia; Grow; Be researching toward Knights; Try to get contact with other civs; Do your best.

Zagnut: :goodjob: :lol:

I've played, but I have to make dinner now first. The report will be up in a couple of hours.

pre-turn
Make the deal with France:
Construction, WM and 54g (all she has) for Republic.
Sell Construction to Russia for WM and 177g (all she has).
We now have 2 techs to go for the next era and the uprisings. All 3 AI are at par so we can expect it in 4-10 turns.
We have 424g in the kitty, time to spend some of the money: 7 vet warriors upgraded.
Start shuffling some around to get more vets into play and use the regs for policing.

IT
H'burg Horse -> Horse
N'berg Horse -> Horse

330BC - turn 1
Dispersed a camp.
MM Berlin.
The settler continues north.
Here goes Titanic, straight east, but it's all ocean. :( The Mary finds a coast... oh, pray to the gods it does sink *now*.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/LandInZicht.JPG

Sell WM to England for WM and 10g.
Since we've done most of the upgrading, I put the slider on 70% science for Currency in 10 at -2gpt.

IT
Leipzig FP -> Horse
Both Galleys sink. :( I should've warned you guys, my suicide galley luck is obnoxious.

310BC - turn 2
Anarchy! We draw 5 turns.

IT
Barb Warrior wonders around in the north.

290BC - turn 3
The barb warrior is killed.
The AI now all are Republics.
The Northern scouting Horses reveal a tundra island.

IT
Zzzz

270BC - turn 4
No camps found in the North.
Shuffle troops around.

IT
Oops, Munich grows and riots.

250BC - turn 5
Camp dispersed, new camp found.
Diplo check reveals nothing new.

IT
Zzz

230BC - turn 6
Crows' Nest founded, starts warrior.
Arachy will be over next turn.
I'm going to try something here, put lux slider on 50%. No idea if this does something. :lol:
France has currency. :(

IT
Zzz

210BC - turn 7
Much better! Since France has currency, I turn off science completele and we still need just 10% lux.
With republic and the FP we are making 77gpt.
Short rush a Rax in Zagnutopia, now ready in 10 turns.
Odessa has grown its cultural borders and the troops who were targetting Kiev make a turn, a much better target!
It will postpone the war, but this gives Russia the chance to maybe buy Currency or complete Monarchy....

IT
Berlin settler -> settler

190BC - turn 8
The last barb camp in the North is gone. I'll position the Horses to 'see' that part of the world. This should stop new camps from popping up.

IT
Frankfurt Horse -> Horse

170BC - turn 9
More troop shuffling, next turn we are ready to declare.
Sell WMs around.
Since Koningsburg will spill shields anyway, I rush the Horse, now ready in 1.

IT
Koningsburg Horse -> Horse
Cologne Horse -> Horse
Stuttgart Rax -> Spear
Massive uprising near Stuttgard!

150BC - turn 10
France an England have Monarchy and Currency, Russia knows only Currency.
The massive uprising was in 1 of the 3 tiles *not* in vision.

The save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/STAFF_SG002_BC0150_01.SAV)

I've not move the units rean the Russian territories. The red and yellow ovals highlight the stacks. Purple is a settler pair, to fill gaps.

Note that Odessa has culture and will not be destroyed.

Looks good, Space! :thumbsup: How productive are we with the FP and with republic?

There is still a lot of room... I don't see why we shouldn't keep the settler factory going for another 10-15 settlers...!

Thx Ainwood, it might even be a good idea to let one of the floodplain cities build settlers for a while. The settler factory in Berlin works a bit different now, with the increased production and food.

:hatsoff: Look, there. One cannot even leave you alone for one day and you win the game single-handed ;)

You should have seen me slowly scroll down the screen in apprehension for the fate of our two galleys... :lol: Oh, well, we'll build more I guess.

Yes, I agree to keep Berlin on Settler. In fact, a second factory would not be that bad...

Good luck with the barbs, Zag! ;)

I'm next up and will keep building Settlers. Good going everyone. You have put us well ahead of the DGIT Team.

Space, what do you mean when you say Odessa has culture and will not be destroyed? Do you mean that it grew on your turn 7 and now will not be destroyed if we capture it, even though it is only size 1?

I have the game and took a look at it. We can buy Currency from the Russians for gpt. I will do that and then declare war the same turn. That will put us into the Middle Ages. Russia must already be there but is not displaying its free tech. I guess we have to discover Currency before we see it. Before I declare war I will see if we can trade for their MA tech.

Space or Karasu, I meant to ask previously - What is the translation of Ruimtevreemdheid?

I intend to upgrade a few more Warriors. I would like to have a few spares in case the war with Russia does not go well.

Space, what do you mean when you say Odessa has culture and will not be destroyed? Do you mean that it grew on your turn 7 and now will not be destroyed if we capture it, even though it is only size 1?


Yep, that's what I meant.


I have the game and took a look at it. We can buy Currency from the Russians for gpt. I will do that and then declare war the same turn. That will put us into the Middle Ages. Russia must already be there but is not displaying its free tech. I guess we have to discover Currency before we see it. Before I declare war I will see if we can trade for their MA tech.


Good thinking! I'm so used to RBCiv rules that I never even consider this possibility.


Space or Karasu, I meant to ask previously - What is the translation of Ruimtevreemdheid?


It's literally 'space oddity', in Dutch.


I intend to upgrade a few more Warriors. I would like to have a few spares in case the war with Russia does not go well.

The only ones not upgraded are either regs or elites.

Be careful up north. Looking at the map I saw there's another tile were the barbs can be, and there was another barb town before on the southwest point. And if they indeed spawned there again, chances are big that we'll find oil or saltpeter there in a distant future. :thumbsup:

I think Space refers to border expansion -once that happens, even a 1-pop city shouldn't auto-raze when captured.

About breaking the deal with Russia. Seems feasible... :evil: We won't be able to make per-turn deals with France or England, but that should not kill us.
But we will have to clean our continent before the other civs are contacted, even if we won't go for the variant victory.

Ruimtevreemdheid is supposed to mean "Space oddity" :D Since Space didn't correct it (out of kindness, I guess), then may be it is even true. BTW, nice pick with "Crow's nest" :twitch:

EDIT - Cross-posted, of course.

I've been thinking (I know, dangerous, but anyway) about the tech deal. Will we try to eliminate the Russians or will we just 'prune' them? In the latter case we might be better of by getting the tech in the peace deal.

I've been thinking (I know, dangerous, but anyway) about the tech deal. Will we try to eliminate the Russians or will we just 'prune' them? In the latter case we might be better of by getting the tech in the peace deal.
Yes, that is a consideration. I often like to leave a civ one city so that I can get its techs. We should analyze that possibility later on. Of course, if we are lucky enough to get their tech now, it really doesn't matter if we have to give them our tech because we will destroy them anyway.

But we will have to clean our continent before the other civs are contacted, even if we won't go for the variant victory.
I don't understand the first part of that sentence. We are looking for the other civs now. Why can't we contact them before we eliminate France and England?

On that issue, it looks to me as if one continent is NE of our continent and I will try to reach it going northeast, even though space discovered it going west.

What Karasu means is this: if we break a gpt turn, the civs that we know won't make any more gpt deals with us. If they meet the other civs, they will 'tell' this to the others, who will then also not trade with us for gpt deals anymore. If we'll manage to keep the contacts to ourselves as long as they are around and eliminate them before they can make contact on their own, we'll be in the clear.

Oh, OK. I did now that, but just didn't understand the post.

I am going to start the game now.

:cool: Good luck!

Well, I feel exhausted. I was almost overwhelmed by barb Horsemen in every turn.

Here is my log: Take game, make no changes.

IT - Zagnutopia goes into disorder. How could that happen in “my” town????
Dortmund Horseman –> Horseman
French are building the Hanging Gardens.

130 BC - turn 1 - Set up tax collector in Zagnutopia until it can be connected to the road system. Not worth increasing luxuries to 20% just for one unconnected town.

Horseman up north does not find any barb camps in the area that space speculated they might be located. Switch Nieuwe Ruim from Library to Spearman. It is next to 2 Russian towns and a barb Horseman is approaching.

Trade 12 gpt to Russia for Currency. That puts us into the Middle Ages. We get Feudalism and Russia has Monotheism. She will trade for Feudalism, WM and 360 gold. I get her down to 224 gold. Then ask for her WM, which she will give for 1 more gold. I happily take it as it always helps to know the complexion of the battlefield. Move some Workers who were finished with their current tasks to the south to road toward Russia. Switch one Horseman to Swordsman as we are building 8 Horseman. Research Chivalry in 14 turns.

Declare war on Russia

IT - The rule is not to fight a 2 front war. Well, we now have a 3 front war. Russia you already know about. In the mountains to the west of Nuremberg appear 24 barb Horsemen. In the jungle to the east of Nieuwe Ruim appear 4 barb Horsemen.

110 - turn 2 - Odessa is captured with no losses. Sverdlosk is destroyed with the loss of a Swordsman and Horseman.

The barbs near Nuremberg are a problem. I can’t survive an attack by 24 Horseman. I move as many units as possible to Nuremberg and Hannover. Then use all our gold to upgrade units to Swordsmen.

Berlin builds Settler. I wanted to send him to the NW but that is where the barbs are so he will have to wait.

IT - 7 barbs attack Hannover and are killed, but finally the Swordsman and Horseman that were defending it are overwhelmed. The barbs pillage the town down to one pop. 5 of them are left after the attack. On the eastern front there are now 9 barb Horseman scattered over the terrain. 3 of them appear to be headed toward Minsk.

90 - turn 3 - Kill 4 of the 5 remaining barbs in the north. I cannot kill the last one and so Hannover will apparently be pillaged again. Fortunately, the barbs did not attack Nuremberg.

Russian Archer defeats fortified, elite Warrior in the jungle near Nieuwe Ruim. Spearman kills Archer.

Russia apparently traded Feudalism and Mono to the English and Feud to the French.

IT - More barbs show up in the SE. There are now 20 in that area. They defeat the Horseman defending Nieuwe Ruim and pillage the town. Also pillage Hannover one more time. Only lose one gold.

70 - Turn 4 - Destroy barb village in the NW. Hopefully they won’t appear in that area for a while.

Galley completed in Bonn and heads NE.

I underestimated the barb threat in the east and didn’t move units there quickly enough. I didn’t think there would be two >20 unit barb attacks from different directions. Dalandzagdad is now threatened and I think it will be pillaged. 12 Horsemen are within range. However, they will have to attack a hill and across a river.

IT - The barb Horsemen do not attack Dalandzagdad but disappear up a coastal mountain.

50 - turn 5 - Kill one barb Horseman and rearrange units to be able to defend towns. Fortunately, most of the barbs are spread out so they are easy to pick off. There is only one stack and it seems to be aiming for Brandenburg.

The northern Horsemen discover another barb camp with 2 Warriors.

IT - Another stack of 7 barb Horseman come out of the fog in the west to threaten Salzburg and Munich. I have never seen so many barbs.

30 - turn 6 - Northern Horseman destroys barb camp. Horsemen rushed to Salzburg and Munich. Upgrade Warrior in Salzburg to Swordsman.

Remember the war with Russia? Well, surprisingly enough I am about to invade Minsk. Tune in next turn for the results.

IT - The English contact us and want to trade maps. They are annoyed. I accept and they stay annoyed. Barbs attack Salzburg. Swordsman defeats 2 or 3 and gets promoted to Veteran. But now there are 11 barbs in that area.

10 BC - turn 7 (feels like turn 50) - Swordsman attacks and kills one Horseman on mountain next to Salzburg. Two of our Horsemen come to the rescue. Kill one more barb Horseman.

Minsk is destroyed. One Worker captured.
IT - Munich is attacked by barbs. They kill the 2 defenders and sack the town reducing its pop by one. They also attack Brandenburg - no damage and Dalandzagdad - no damage.

10 AD - turn 8 - It appears that the land to the NE is a tundra filled island with 2 Goody Huts. I will continue on to the east.

A veteran Swordsman attacks a Russian Spearman guarding a Settler near Minsk and loses the battle.

Found Karasuvia on the ashes of Sverdlosk. MM Berlin.

Kill a couple of miscellaneous barbs. Another barb village pops up in the NW where I was sending one of the Settlers. A nearby Horseman kills one of the Warriors but is redlined in the process.

IT - China builds the Colossus. Barb Horseman kills veteran Horseman defending Brandenburg.

30 - turn 9 - Kill 2 more Horsemen threatening Munich. Re-arrange a few other Horseman in the cat and mouse game with the barbs.

IT - The barbs pillage a road near Brandenburg. They lose 2 more Horsemen in futile attacks.

50 - Kill a couple more barbs. Build new Settler in Berlin. Leave him there for ainwood to handle. There are still 15 barbs in the east, but they are scattered and they won’t be a problem unless they get more reinforcements. Over by Munich there are only 3. And by Nieuwe Ruim, only one.

My strategy for defeating the barbs was to set up a fortified position, usually in a town. Let them come and then pick them off so that I ended the turn back in the fortified position. It took a long time but I didn’t lose many units.

The only Galley we have was set up to go to the east but I used his last few turns by mistake to start him on his way and he didn’t get very far. I hope he survives.

There are 3 Settlers trying to build towns. 2 are up north. In one case the barb camp in its vicinity needs to be eliminated. One Settler is still in Berlin.

I redirected the Workers to build roads to the outlying towns. It was very hard to send units to Dalandzagdad and Nieuw Ruim because they were not yet connected. Building roads through the jungle takes a long time. There are 3 Workers in Cologne who can’t get out to complete the road to Dalandzagdad because of the barbs.

There are our units in the south converging on Kiev. The Russians usually have 2 Spearmen in their towns. But I notice they have started to send out Archers so they may be making a bunch of them. I would feel comfortable attacking any of their towns, except Moscow, with 2 Swordsmen and a couple of other units.

The save is here: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/STAFF_SG002_AD0050_01.SAV

I just noticed the spoiler for this game. We need to write up a summary of our game so far in order to be able to read the spoiler. Anyone object if I do that? Let me know if you want one of your particularly spectacular exploits highlighted.

Tough turns indeed... It looks like you passed us almost through the great barb offensive. Now, that's something I would highlight in the spoiler :thumbsup:

And thanks for volunteering :D

Bloody heck! Looks like you did pretty-well with those barbs, Zagnut! And I agree: Thanks for volunteering! :D

I posted a write-up of our exploits in the Spoiler thread so you are free to read it now. It looks to me as if we are behind in time even if we are ahead in score. Most of the teams that posted so far entered the MA before us. There have been a lot of wars with Russia. Looks as if we are in the majority there.

Wow, great turns Zagnut! :thumbsup: And thanks for unlocking the door to the spoiler! :)

Yep, its great to read the other spoilers. Whilst the others may be ahead in terms of conquest, whilst there is still free-land available, I don't think that its much of a disadvantage to us. :) I'll try to continue tonight / first-thing tomorrow morning.

Ok - about to play now. I just noticed that the coast where Space or zagnut had a galley sink has a dark green cultural border on it! I guess that means we need to get rid of england and france pronto (or make certain that we don't trade contacts). :)

Oops, hopefully they can't reach us (or rather England and France). Chivalry is near though and our collection of Horsies is growing. :) Go for it Ainwood, good luck!

The Bad News:

We have fallen behind team Kunningas. We still don't have any more contacts

The good news:
We fought off the barb menace. I counted at least 22 that were dispatched! We have chivalry. We have 4 knights and enough cash to upgrade 1 / turn. We have 15 in production, 8 or so which will be finished in the next 8 or so turns. We have taken Kieve, Tblisi and Moscow. We should be able to take the rest fairly quickly (Novogorad only has an arher defending it!)

Here is the detail:

Open save:

First impression: Wow that's a lot of barbs! I count 18!

Notice that there is a green border on a far-off continent (north-east of Brighton). I guess that if we make contact, we should make darn-sure not to sell it to england and france.

General strategy will be to (try to) see off the barbs, regroup forces then finish-off russia.

As found:
Change Crow's nest to library (simply for chea culture expansion).
Change Munich, Karasuvia and salzberg to horseman (I have an aversion to defensive units)
Send settler in Berlin north (will settle near incense by crows nest)

IT: Lose an Elite horse to a barb horse in Munich! Barb horse not even damaged. We beat three other barb horsies
barbs pillage wheat by cologne!
Hamburg: Horse => Horse
Frankfurt horse=> Horse

Turn 1: 70 AD:
Frankfurth horse beats barb.
Gertrude beats barb horse.
Horseman and Swordsman in dalandzagdad both beat barb horses.
Swordsman near munich beats barb horse
Horseman in Munich beats barb horse
Waldo beat russian archer on mountains. Odessa hooked-up.
Galley hasn't sunk! :D Move it and it still can't even see sea, let alone coast.
Dispers barb camp north-west of stuttgart.

IT:
Two more barb horsies sent to the great meadow in the sky. :) One gets us a promotion.
Heidelburg horse => horse.
Nuremburg sword=>sword
Cologne horse => horse
Bonn Galley => Galley
Space oddity in dutch warrior = > settler
Galley sinks.

Turn 2: 90 AD:
Swordsman near munich beats barb.
Horseman & delta in nieuwe ruimtevreemdheld beat barb horsies.
Units advance on Kiev.

IT
Galley fights-off barb galley
Leipzig horse => horse
Zagnutopia riots

Turn 3: 110 AD:
Zagnutopia hooked-on to trade network.
Vet horse beats russian archer
Attack on Kiev begins! Vet sword beats reg. spearman.
Reg horse retreats from reg spearman (does one damage)
Hermann attacks and wins! Kieve is captured and Hermann is promoted to vet for his valor!
Vet horse in cologne beats barb horse
Two more barbs near cologne beaten by horsies!

IT
Berlin settler => settler

Turn 4: 130 AD:
Heavy fighting near cologne sees another 4 barb horsies dispatched, with no losses. :)
There appears to be only one barb horse left! :D
Spamitupia founded on the coast North-east of bremen
Waldo promoted to elite for a jolly good show in the plains north of Moscow (defeating a battalion of russian archers).
I am send troops to mass in odessa for the final push on the russian front. Decid with Chivalry only 5 turns away to build a barraks in odessa.

IT:
Resistance in Kiev ends. :)
Konigsberg horse => Granary (Knight pre-build)
Decide to put the more prductive cities on pre-build for knights. :)

Turn 5: 150 AD:
Nieuwe Ruimtevreemdheld connected to trade network.
Lose vet horse to regular russian archer. Waldo finishes it off.
Five horsies in Odessa. Decide to send them towards tblisi / sevastopol and they can pillage moscow's food on the way.

IT
<nada>

Turn 6: 170 AD:
Found Land's End on coast opposite from salzburg.

IT:
barbs appear north of spamitupia

Turn 7 190 AD:
Rush warrior in spamitupia.
Disperse barb camp south-east of cologne.
Pillage floodplains and floodplains / wheat in moscow.

IT:
Galley defeat barb galley
Berlin settler => settler.
Spamitupia warrior => spearman

Turn 8: 210 AD
Found Fill Er Up betwen crow's nest and spamitupia
Dalandzagdad connected up, and we now have incense.
With incense, can decrease luxuries to only 10% (with an entertainer in Leipzig) Chivalry due in one turn, and we have a surplus of 60 GPT, and 110 in the bank.
Pillage more of Moscow's food.

IT:
We get chivalry. Change to engineering, and set prebuilds to knights.
Odessa produces barracks, put to library
Bonn: Galley => Galley

Turn 9: 230 D:
Found Jungle Bait South West of Dalandzagdad
Figure that we have a LOT of upgrades, so set to engineering at zero science and a single scientist in Leipzig. This gives us 80 GPT (enough for one upgrade / turn).
Three horseman attack tblisi. First retreats, second two win and the city is ours! :D
Two archers also destroyed, and a horseman gets promoted to elite.
Upgrade a single knight in Odessa.

IT:
Lose 4 workers to barb horseman! :blush:
Leipzig knight => knight
Heidelburg knight => knight
Resistance ends in Tblisi
ainwoodburg gets disease

Turn 10: 250 AD:
Stack of moderate death arrives at Moscow. Attack and lose waldo :( Next two horsies win! :D Moscow only had two spears. Capture two workers, but there is 7 resisters!
Galley finds green boundary! Still in ocean though.
Upgrade to another knight in Odessa

>> save << (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/STAFF_SG002_AD0250_01.SAV)

:goodjob: We may be behind Team Kuningas, but we're still #1 in my heart! :D

Got it! I'll give it a look and post back for instructions.

Good going, Ainwood. :goodjob:

I just looked at the save and we have contact with the Japanese! And they know India and China! Happy trading, Karasu. :) It is always wise not to sell off-continent contacts, but as Ainwood said now we need to be extra careful.

Did we have contact, or did the galley survive?

When I clicked 'D' I got Japan listed and could talk to them. :D

Wow :cool: I probably wouldn't notice that -strangely enough, they don't appear in F4 :confused:

Since I have the game open here, I may as well go with a few questions:
- What did you have in mind for the settler near Odessa?
- Any thoughts of jumping our Palace to Moscow (it would make another nice Settler factory, by the looks...)
- Should I ever take pace from Russia (they would offer two minor cities and a couple of workers right now).
- Prebuilds for Sun Tzu or Leonardo?

Peace with Russia? Hmm. We are now in somewhat in a hurry eleminating the other two too.

They are not far behind us tech wise (which I was going to check, but got sidetracked with Japan....) so we need to attack at least one of them soon, probably France (GL). We can deal with what's left of Russia at leisure later. Not sure if this is the right thing to do, though. It's what I did in GOTM31 and ended up owning the continent later than others. I'd like to hear what you guys think about this.

I think we need to wipe out the others ASAP! England (for some strange reason) haven't hooked any horses up, so they could be a good target (and the have the GL). I think that Paris looks quite good for a new palace. However, I'd almost be tempted to use a leader to build it, because otherwise we need a granary etc to get a settler factory in Berlin again. There is still a LOT of space for cities and we need to start filling it up quickly to get our score moving again.

I just checked and Tokugawa is in the ancient ages! There must have been a bit of warfare on their continent (he has communications for sale, so I presume they're all fairly close).

I vote for wiping Russia out, because if we get the GL we get the techs anyway, and we don't even need monarchy! Removing them will also decrease the tech cost slightly. :)

A couple of ideas...

Assuming that Novgorod is taken next turn, I would like to take St. Petersburg and Sevastopol as soon as possible to get them out of Moscow's neighbourhood.
Yakutsk and Smolensk should come from the peace deal. then, I would leave Vladivostok for later, as it is a bit of a detour, and concentrate on France. But if you really insist... :D

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Staff-SGOTM2-Russia.jpg

For what concerns France and England, St. Petersburg is well placed for an assault on either. English first sounds good -say, Canterbury -> Liverpool -> London (so, even if they do connect horses it will be useless).
Besides, Paris is building the Hanging Gardens -it would be nice to let them complete it...

Once the GL is in our hands, when will we want to start our GA?

And yes, Paris may be a better site for the Palace than Moscow. So I see three possibilities if we get a great leader:
1. Palace in Paris (or a nearby site)
2. Sun Tzu or Leonardo to trigger our GA (Sun Tzu is being built by England in Hastings and by France in Lyons)
3. Great Lighthouse? (If we plan to invade the other continent -currently being built by the Japanese )

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Staff-SGOTM2-London.jpg

I have not been able to analyze ainwood's turn and the subsequent posts, but think I would favor eliminating Russia while we have them in a severly weakened condition. From this point it shouldn't take too long to do away with them.

If England truly doesn't have Horses then take them on next.

First of all, THE SAVE! (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/STAFF_SG002_AD0350_01.SAV)

Then, what happened

Pre-turn
Move two Swords out of Kiev, retreat Horsemen one step farther from St. Petersburg.

Trading time:
Japan must be researching Currency, as they are offering pretty little for it. In order not to bring them into the MA too fast and take full value from the tech, I sell them Currency + WM for Contact with India, WM, 24 gp
Contact India. They are only down Poly, so I give them WM for Contact with China, WM, 42 gp (all they have)
Same with China: WM for WM + 11 gp (all they have)

We now have a more or less complete view of the world. The oceans can be crossed with the help fo the Lighthouse.

At this point, I get 29 more gps selling our WM to France and England (I don't think they'll be making lots of money in the next turns).
Incidentally, their updated WM shows that the French have connected their Iron while the English have no Horses yet.

With all this money, I short-rush a Barracks in Tbilisi

Switch Stuttgart from Knight (22) to Settler (2), SpamItUpia from Spearman to Galley (I have an adversion to defensive units too :D )

Press Enter, and...

Barb horse dies at Ainwoodburg
Barb horse pillages road outside Dalandzagdad
Russia wants an audience -nope
Our troops have quelled 4 resisters in Moscow
Tbilisi: Barracks - Library (vetoable)
Our people love us and build a nice Native-American addition to our palace ;)

Turn 1 - 260 AD
Elite horse takes Novgorod
The ship has survived (now that we didn't need it anymore...)

Move a few troops.
Cannot upgrade any more horsemen (the ones in Odessa are Elite). We'll have to wait until Tbilisi is connected.

IT
Berlin, Stuttgart: Settler - Settler
It may be worth building a few libraries in our core cities

Japan completes the Great Lighthouse -Our monopoly on contacts won't last too long now...

English and French settlers begin entering our borders to settle the eastern lands... for us... :evil:

Turn 2 - 270 AD
Our troops approach St. Petersburg and Sevastopol.

India and China are in the Middle Ages. I sell Polytheism to Japan for all their gold (34, not much admittedly). Shuffle WM around for a meagre 7 additional gold pieces.

IT
Nothing you really really want to know

Turn 3 - 280 AD
Disperse a barb camp to the north

Attack on St. Petersburg:
4/4 Horse redlined by 3/3 Spear, retreats
4/4 Horse kills 3/3 Spear
4/4 Horse redlined by 3/3 Spear, retreats
4/4 Horse killed by 2/3 Spear
4/4 Horse redlined by 2/3 Spear, retreats
4/4 Horse redlined by 2/3 Spear, retreats

Baxburg founded on the ashes of Minsk. Starts Settler

IT
Nothing again

Turn 4 - 290 AD
Attack on St. Petersburg - reprise
4/4 Horse redlined by 3/3 Spear, retreats
4/4 Sword kills 3/3 Spear
4/4 Sword killed by 2/3 Spear, which promotes

Attack on Sevastopol:
4/4 Knight kills 3/3 Spear and promotes!
5/5 Horsemen redlined by 3/3 Spear, retreats
5/5 Horsemen kills 2/3 Spear
5/5 Horsemen kills 3/3 Archer.
Sevastopol is taken with two workers

The English have founded Reading not far from Land's End

IT
Some cities riot for the first small signals of war weariness.

Turn 5 - 300 AD
Attack on St. Petersburg - take 3:
4/4 Knight killed by 4/4 Spearman
5/5 Horsemen kills 3/3 Spearman
4/4 Knight kills 2/3 Spear, St. Petersburg is taken with three slaves. About time!

To reduce WW, I make peace with Russia for her two pop-1 cities. She has only Vladivostok now, and three Swordsmen are going there -our reputation is gone anyway ;)

France and England are up Engineering and Theology. Since the other continent is still lagging behind, I don't trade, relying on the Great Library instead.

I land a warrior in the tundra island. Pops a hut. Barbs.

IT
Hannover: Knight - Library
Bonn: Galley - Settler
Ainwoodburg: Barracks - Pikeman (or a Knight in 70?)
The barbs kill our warrior.

Turn 6 - 310 AD
Alanshafen founded near Crow's Nest. Harbour.
Imrunningoutofnames founded near Dalandzagdad. Warrior.

Sell WM around for 30 gps. Japan hasn't made any contacts yet.

IT
Nuffin'

Turn 7 - 320 AD
More troop movements in preparation for the Battle of England.

IT
Not much

Turn 8 - 330 AD
Upgrade 10 Horsemen.

Exchange WM with Tokugawa. An area in the direction of our continent lights up when he shows us his map... I hope I'm wrong...
Loose a Galley to barb ships in the north.

IT
Paris completes the Hanging Gardens :cool:

Turn 9 - 340 AD
Tokugawa has contacts with England and France, but not Russia. He seems to accept gpt deals with us. Better finish off Russia asap... Declare on Russia for the final assault.

IT
Our righteous citizens don't like our treachery and some cities riot.

Turn 10 - 1250 BC
Vladivostok is conquered, and the Russians are no more (so they won't tell the other civs how bad we are :devil2: )

Oh, well. Our troops are ready for England too. I cannot see any reason to wait one more turn :D
(Honourably) declare war on the English, and begin the
Battle for Canterbury:
5/5 Knight kills 3/3 Spearman, without a scratch
5/5 Horseman kills 3/3 Spearman and gives us our first Great Leader, Barbarossa! :yeah: A bit too early, maybe... (now look at that -I'm complaining for getting a great leader... :crazyeye: )

Off Nieuwe Ruimtevreemdheid, Luitpold kills an English warrior and captures two slave workers.

Notes
Sorry, Space, I left some cities in disorder. The end of our war with Russia *should* reduce WW, but I am not sure.
I should have delete all auto-moves, but I may have missed a few Knights -they are all going towards Canterbury anyway. The great leader is hidden under one of those stacks.
I believe that Liverpool can be attacked directly from Canterbury if your go through the roaded mountain

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Staff-SGOTM2-WarZone.jpg

We have a fairly good Knights army now. Shall we start building/rushing Libraries and Settlers around our empire (without stopping with Knights of course)?
And what about the great leader?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Staff-SGOTM2-World.jpg

1 down, 2 to go. Well done Karasu, I hope I can be a worthy successor.

Yes... what about the leader? Maybe an army? Build heroic epic? If I read the spoiler correctly we are rather late in getting that leader. Not that it really matters. I can't look at the save right now, but I will later.

It is good to see the civs on the other island are balanced, this should allow us to be untouchable.

What about the longer term? Do you think we'll remain under the domination limit if we'll capture the current Chinese/Indian continent? Will we go for the captured-UN variant?

Looking good! :cool:

I had a look at the save using Dianthus' mapstat program, to check happiness. The results are attached. War weariness sucks, doesn't it! The good news is we seem to have a bit of room to move on the luxuries slider, which should give us another 4 or 5 turns of warfare. When we get back to peace, our score should start climbing quite dramatically. :) I also noticed that we captured furs when we got Canterbury. Lets get them hooked-up ASAP!

Re the leader: we have a lot of warfare to go. I think a knight army might be a good idea, especially if france / england starts building pikemen. Should we make an excursion to cut-off the iron?

I like ainwood's idea about cutting off the English Iron. One source is close to Canterbury and can be reached in one turn by a Knight. That Knight can then stay on mountains until it is almost the entire way to the other source. It should be able to survive on mountains and would make the English easier to defeat.

Is it practical to pillage our source of Iron and build Horsemen that we can then upgrade to Knights. I think the upgrade cost is 40 gold and we are making 95/turn so could upgrade 2 per turn. This may be a faster way to get the Knights we need to control the continent faster.

Our culture is pretty low. What strategy should we follow with regard to culture flips?

I don't understand the MapStat screen you posted, ainwood. I do not use that program. If it shows 4 to 5 turns before we have to start using the luxury slider to control happiness then so be it. We seem to be committed to cleaning up the continent as quickly as possible. I don't think we want to switch to Monarchy (especially since we haven't discovered it yet!).

For the leader, I would vote for an Army to increase our chance for more leaders in the future. We don't appear to be a very peaceful civ and I assume we will soon be taking a cruise to the other continent. Great Leaders will flow to us then.

Do you think we should start a prebuild for Leonardo's?

The utility simply gives the numbers of happy and unhappy peoople in each city. My comments on the luxuries slider were simply guesses -> if we are getting war weariness now, then I figure we can increase luxuries by about 10% per turn for the next four or five turns until we start making serious losses / turn.

The upgrade cost for horsemen without Leonardo's is 80 gold. However, the prebuild is a great idea. Leipzig? We can then send a very sizable army to the other continent. It looks like beach-head in tokyo is a good option, to capture the Great Lighthouse, then bring our galleys over en-masse! :D

Japan also only has one iron, on the coast! It should be a simple matter to cut it off, before they get those annoying samurai... But I'm getting a bit ahead of myself.

Re culture: I think its pointless to try and catch-up in culture. Perhaps just don't occupy anything! Station a knight outside each city to recapture it if it flips, and make sure we wipe the other civs out completely. :confused:

If we cut off the English Iron then we could probably station Swordsmen outside the city to take it back if it flips. I think we can count on some flips because it is going to take some time to work our way through all of those English jungles.

The other issue I forgot to mention about the happiness thing is that most of our citizens were unhappy about the Russian war -> that's over now, so we might get a few turns of grace! :D

Got it. I will *try* to play today, since I will not have a lot of time the next 6 days. But I can't promiss. If I haven't played, I ask for a skip. :eek: I know it's a terrible thing to do in a 4 man roster, but you know RL, always there when you don't need it. :rolleyes: ;)

No problems, Space.
Let's put it this way: just "go give a look at the save"... :D and all your doubts will slowly fade away

EDIT: For your conscience, you may want to repeat to yourself "it's only a quick look" while you are loading Civ...

...Let's put it this way: just "go give a look at the save"... :D

Oh you, you..., evil man... :lol: I guess I'll post the report tonight! (in about 10 hours)

I can resist anything except temptation...

I think the best use for the leader right now is indeed an Army.

Btw, any thoughts about moving our palace? I was also considering Rheims...
We could take the English core cities, then make peace and set our greedy eyes upon France. It would be nice to have our second core established soon.

I think (but it's just wild guessing) that we could have reached Paris in 10-15 turns; so a prebuild on Sun Tzu (or Leonardo) seems appropriate at this point.

We can indeed disconnect our Iron cities, although I'd like to have a few libraries -not so much for the culture as for faster research once our GA starts. But that's open do debate of course.

As for the variant game... I don't know. It would be nice, but I fear we haven't deliberately sped up the tech pace so far (quite the contrary, in fact).

Yes, I intent to go for the English core cities. London will be the first target, mostly so because of the iron west of it. When we have captured it the English network will be damaged and most cities will be without iron. With all the troops available taking their core out should not be too much of a problem.

Does anyone mind if I throw a little money at our population? ;) I.e. move the lux slider up a bit?

I agree that we've a much better chance of a fast-ish conquest or domination than a speedy UN.

Does anyone mind if I throw a little money at our population? ;) I.e. move the lux slider up a bit?

I don't mind.

On the prebuild issue, I think it should be Leonardo's because we may have conquered our continent by the time we get Sun Tzu and wouldn't have a need for barracks in every city.

Yep => Leo's is my vote too. It really supports Zagnuts suggestion to disconnect the iron as well. :)

As you've noticed I haven't played yet. I'll try again tonight.

A nice way to build up the suspense ;)

Sorry guys, I can't play until tuesday. Maybe I can switch with Zagnut?

OK, I can take the game now. Happy to help you out. I presume you will then go after me.

Thanks Zagnut, I appreciate it. :)

Take game and make following changes: 1. Move Knight from Stuttgart to Nuremberg to protect city from barb Horseman who is 2 squares away.
2. Change Entertainer to Taxman in Canterbury.
3. Change Entertainers in many of the Russian cities to productive citizens. There was too much celebration going on about joining our great civilization.
4. Switch Leipzig to a Palace prebuild.

IT - Chinese demand we leave their territory. I agree to go. Brandenburg produces Knight.

360 - turn 1 - Capture 2 English Workers outside Canterbury. Move up more Knights for attack on Liverpool. Move Workers toward Canterbury to establish road network into English territory.

IT - Nuremberg produces Knight. The English cultural border around Liverpool increases and as a result I will not be able to reach them to attack on this turn.

370 - turn 2 - Build Army and load it with 2 Knights. Move troops to Liverpool. All of the civs on the other continent now have Monarchy.

IT - The French are building Leonardo’s Workshop!!!

380 - turn 3 - Road is completed to Canterbury. Now Furs are available to our cities.

Capture Liverpool. Knight defeats Spearman without losing a hit point. Attack York and defeat Pikeman, but Spearman defeats my Horseman. I decide to wait another turn instead of attacking with other Horseman. Move Knight stack to mountain within striking distance of London. Will not disconnect the English Iron near York as it may fall in neutral territory after I capture York.

A mis-click on the Army sends it off our road network. Curses.

IT - Berlin produces another Settler. Now have 3 headed north to settle the frontier.

390 - turn 4 - Attack London: Knight loses to Pikeman
Knight redlined by Spearman and retreats.
Knight loses to Spearman
Knight redlined by Spearman but wins.
Knight defeats Spearman
Knight defeats Spearman
Elite Horseman defeats redlined Pikeman.
The city and the Great Library are ours!

Defeat 2 Archers and a Swordsman on the plains.

IT - GL gives us Monarchy and Engineering and Theology. Research Invention. Canterbury flips. The English land a Settler on the NW coast and found Birmingham. I may have to open a second front.

400 - turn 5 - Increase science to 40% to get Invention in 13 turns. +17 gold. MM a couple of cities to keep them from rioting.

Too bad for Canterbury that my mis-clicked Army was right next to their city. I used it to take the city back. Move units toward Oxford, Warwick and Nottingham.

IT - My Domestic Advisor reminds me to build the Heroic Epic. Disease strikes Karasuvia. Sorry Karasu, I hope it was not any of your relatives.

410 - turn 6 - Capture Nottingham. No units lost.

Heidelburg starts building Heroic Epic. Complete in 17 turns.

IT - zzz

420 - Elite Knight attacks Spearman in the NW town of Reading. The Knight is red-lined and has to retreat. Capture Oxford. No units lost. Capture Warwick. One Knight lost.

I decide to stop the invasion of England and concentrate on France. France does not yet have Chivalry, but it has all the other techs around it and must be close to getting it. I want to start the war with them before they get Chivalry. England is only left with some disconnected coastal towns and it shouldn’t be difficult to go back and clean them up.

IT - zzz

430 - turn 8 - Destroy Birmingham in the NW. Must interrupt that campaign as barb Horseman have started coming out of the fog at the northern end of the map. I have Settlers waiting to go up there but no units to escort them. Also capture Leeds on the west coast.

Make peace with England. Take Reading, Norwich, 14 gpt and 32 gold. In the war we captured 7 towns, destroyed 1 and got 2 for peace.

IT - Barb Horseman advances on Spamitupia Swordsman kills him. Hamburg completes Library. Switch production to Marketplace to get better production in our core.

440 - turn 9 - Check for any trades. None available. France will not trade Invention for any amount of gpt. Declare war on France. There are no cities close enough that I can take them on the first turn. Therefore, I concentrate on Rheims and move a stack onto the mountain adjacent to that city. It is defended by a regular Pikeman. Move units to protect St. Petersburg against any French counterattack. Also, move 2 Swordsmen into position to attack Amiens in the SE.

IT - Nuremberg completes Knight. Switch to Marketplace.

450 - turn 10 - The battle for Rheims is over quickly. Our Army defeats 2 Pikeman and an Elite Knight dispatches a Spearman. Rheims is ours! The French cities are spread out and don’t lend themselves to quick attacks on the next turn. I will therefore let space oddity decide whether to attack Paris or Orleans first. I do move some units toward Orleans. Amiens is captured by our 2 Swordsman without a loss. Units are poised next to Cherbourg for an attack. (How appropriate on June 6th, the anniversary of D-Day).

In the north, our valiant Knight kills a barb Horseman. A Settler sets out with a Swordsman to found a new town in the far north. Randolph (my home town) is founded on the NW coast. A French Settler and Spearman, who did not anticipate the war with their country, are trapped in its boundaries.

Follow-up Notes:
1. There is a Settler/Swordsman in the north heading for the northernmost grassland tile.

2. I did not disconnect the Iron as I thought Karasu had left me with enough Knights to do the job.

3. There is a Galley in the far north that I was sending to explore the Japanese borders peeking out from the fog.

4. You will see that I have Knights fortified next to most of the English cities. Even though we are at peace, I intended to declare war again if any of them flipped. However, that may not be the best use of those Knights. If a town or two flips it won’t be hard to take them back once we are finished with the French.

5. I had turned off science and relied on the Great Library. However, it appears that the other civs are not researching very fast. None of them are close to Invention. We may have to extort it from the French in peace negotiations.

6. I had no trouble with war weariness during the English campaign.

7. I used all the Workers to build roads as most of the English cities were not connected.

8. Good luck and here is the saved game:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/STAFF_SG002_AD0450_01.SAV

Note to space: You told me to save pictures of the game screen in .jpg format before I tried to reduce the size. However, when I do that and reduce the size I lose part of the picture and the balance remains the same size. Tell me again what I need to do in Paint to shrink the entire picture.

Well played Zagnut. :) :thumbsup:

After you've saved the screenie as .jpg you need to select the 'image' menu and from that 'strech and screw'. You need to make sure that you select the same percentage for both directions.

Thanks, space.

Looking good, Zagnut. :)

I too hope that Karasu and his relative are OK.:mischief:

Ainwood, I can't play until tuesday, so feel free to take the game if you want too. :)

Huge progress!!! :hatsoff:

Where is it that the French are building Leonardo's? We could let them complete it before we take the city...
How about Rheims as our new capital?

Well, its almost tuesday there, isn't it?

Don't give me an excuse not to do GOTM32 or the QSC scoring! I think we can wait another 24-36 hours for you to play it. :)

OK, will do! No excuses, Ainwood, I'll be ready on thursday to test your QSC scoring. :whipped: ;)

pre-turn
Berlin is building a Knight but has no Rax, switch it to temple for a bit of culture.
Rush the Lib in Moskow, to start producing Workers/Settlers there.
Im concerned for London, it is in flip danger, since we can't take it back (I am not in favor Peace deal breaking!). I move two Knights in to quell te resitance and will rush workers there.
Start Sistines in Rheims as pre-build for the Palace. :crazyeye:
Hire a lone scientist.

IT
The English start Sistines and move a spear on our turf.

turn 1 - 460AD
Tell Lizzy to remove her troops.
Our Elite Sword kills the French settler defender.
Rush the worker in London.
Continue to make Galleys in Bonn, we'll need a flotilla in the not-too-distant future.
Destroy the first of the three small French cities in the south.
Move the main stack to Paris.

IT
Lizzy wants to talk, she want to trade TMs, sell her WM instead.
France uses 3 Archers and manage to kill an Elite Knight.

turn 2 - 470AD
Paris is defended by reg Spears!
We capture it with no losses, but it'll be hard to defend it.
Found Wuppertal in the North, misclick to leave it undefended at the mercy of a Barb Horse. :smoke:

IT
French Archer kills an Elite Horse.
We lose 17g to the Barbs.
Our Palce gets a new roof.

turn 3 - 480AD
Regroup a stack to defend Paris agains the Archer wave.
Post troops around Orleans, to take it next turn.
Disperse the northern Barb camp.
Found Tel Aviv.

IT
York flips!

turn 4 - 490AD
Take Orleans at the cost of 1 vet Knight and 1 reg sword. Capture a Worker.
Next turn I'll take a shot at Avignon.

IT
Liverpool flips! I *am* starving all former English cities *and* building workers *and* building Libraries, but it doesn't seem to help much.
More bad news is that York had Iron and we connected Liverpool, so they both have a Pike defender.
Capture and raze Avignon.
Take Dijon, promoting a Knight.
France doesn't want to give up invention just yet.

turn 5 - 500AD
Rush a couple of settlers.

IT
Zzz

turn 6 - 510AD
Logistics is hell, and all our workers have to return from English soil. :(
But still troops are massing south and we can attack 2 other French cities next turn.

IT
French Archer commits suicide.

turn 7 - 520AD
Capture Tours and Chartres.
Joanie still doesn't want to part with Invention, but isn't so sure anymore. My goal is to take Rouen and leave her with the tundra cities and give her the opportunity to finish Sun Tzu's.
Found Middle o Nowhere to fill a gap.

IT
Nada

turn 8 - 530AD
Ready to take Poitiers and Rouen next turn.
Found North Cape on some Incense.

IT
England sends Archers in French territory!

turn 9 - 540AD
Take Rouen *and* disconnect the Iron. :)
Joan still doesn't want to give up Invention.

IT
Lizzy 'surprise' attacks Joan.

turn 10 - 550AD
Found Amazonia in the jungle.
England knows Education.
Sell WM around to make all the AI, execpt England, pennyless. We'll see to Lizzy in a bit (10 turns to go on the peace deal).

The future
Pressure Joanie until she's ready to give up Invention, start researching at max from there. I've build and short-rushed as many Libs as possible to speed it up a bit and hopefully quell the flip danger a bit.

And of course the SAVE. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/STAFF_SG002_AD0550_01.SAV)

Pity about the flips. :(

Perhaps we should just finish the french off completely? If we hold on to the Great Library, then we'll get invention sooner or later anyway.:)

So is the plan for a palace in Rheims? I image its pretty corrupt, is it?

Re SunTzus: Are the french the only ones building it? Is that in Lyon? any idea how many more turns it will take (they can't be producing that many sheilds there!)

No, you're right about Sun Tzu's, Leipzig is about 38 turns from it. The Palace 'pre-build' is a joke, just a reminder to get the Palace there *if* I had managed to produce a leader. I did have quite a few elite wins and I imagine so did Zagnut, so we should see one hopefully in your turns, Ainwood.

England has Education so the GL could be 'depleted' in the near future. The nicest scenario would be that France and England trade, but since they are at war, not very likely.

Good progress! :D
Pity for the flips -I have never seen so many at the same time. Maybe it's time to finish off the English (and sorry about the peace deal... :mischief: ) -yes, I am itching to take those cities back.

The Palace in Rheims was just an idea. It seems to me that it has a potentially 'better' ring than Paris.
A great leader would really help here. Or should we reconsider jumping from Berlin?

I had a lot of elite wins but no leader. I knew flips were going to be a problem with the English. Their culture was so much higher than ours.

Perhaps we can leave France with just one city so that we get (hopefully) Invention in the peace negotiations. Then go back and finish off England.

Things would certainly be easier if we could get another leader.

I probably can't play for another 24 - 48 hours.... Might try tonight, but more likley tomorrow night / thursday morning.

No problems with me -even better, tonight I might even be able to sleep... :D

As Found:

ainwoodburg, sevastopol, st petersburg, novgorod, a space oddity, rouen: pikeman changed to library.
Norwich, Warwick spearman changed to library.

Decided to check the wonder race. Build embassy with england (30 gold) => They will complete SunTzus in 19 turns. They have 2 x horses and 1 x iron.
Japan (60 gold) 2 horses, one iron, SunTzus in 31 turns.
China (71 gold) 1 iron, one horse. SunTzus in 39 turns.

Perhaps we should wait a while longer to take England? Can't check france, as we're at war. :(


IT:
Brandenburg worker => worker

Turn 1: 560 AD:
Elite knight attack potiers, wins. Vet knight attacks and wins. Promoted, and the city is ours.
Horse disperse barb camp.

IT:
Swapm WM with chinese
Lose knight to french bowman. Paris worker => Settler.
Moscow worker => Settler
Kiev riots
Tours flips!
Bremen riots

Turn 2: 570 AD:
Sneak luxuries to 20%.
Elite knight re-takes tours.
Army defeats pike in marseille. Use elite horse to attack remaining spearman. No leader, but marseille is safe.
Found 'see the pretty fishies'.
Move stack to near grenoble. Give the french another couple of turns to finish sun Tzus...

IT =
Tokugawa demand engineering :lol:
Berlin settler => settler
Frankfurt knight => knight
Heroic epic completed! :D => knight
Cologne knight => knight
two gallyes sink

Turn 3: 580 AD
Elite knight loses to reg pikeman
Elite knight beat wounded bowman
Vet knight beats reg spear (Promoted)
Elite horse loses to 1 HP pike
Grenoble finished-off by vet knight.
Elite knight beat longbowman
Brandenburg worker => worker

Turn 4: 590 D.
I weigh-up the options and decide that the flip-risk to france is too high: we can't afford to wait another 5 or ten turns for them to build SunTzus. They need to go. Elite knight defeats lone spearman, and we capture 6 workers!
France now has one city.

IT
Tours flips again! But we have an elite knight next to their reg spearman.
Bonn galley=> galley

Turn 5: 600 AD
Tours recaptured by elite knight.
Elite knight beats pike.
Vet knight retreats from reg spear, elite knight finishes it off.
Damn french have a settler in a boat somewhere!

Offer peace to france. They STILL won't give-up inventions. Buy it for peace + 180 gold.
No-one will give us a GPT deal for invention (not even 1 GPT). Leipzig changed to Leos, tech changed to gunpowder.
Found LandGrabbers
Start sending troops to mass in canterbury. 3 turns left on peace deal...

Turn 6: 610 AD:
Resistance ends in a couple of cities.

Turn 7: 620 AD
Berlin settler => Settler
StPetersburg library => settler
Grenoble Flips! With france not having a city! It is now their capital, and the flip-risk is back
French gallye spotted
Declare war on france. Joan has gunpowder!

Turn 8: 630 AD:
Elite knight redlined on reg spearman, vet knight loses!
Hurry library in canterbury, as culture expansion may help with the second english war.

Turn 9: 640 AD:
Liz tries to renegotiate peace. Request Declined!
Two more elite knight attack Grenoble. First wins, as does second! We get Richtoffen! Move him to rhiems, to rush a palace.

Turn 10: 650 AD:
Rush palace in Rheims. Will have a few elite attacks this turn, and want to maximise our chances!
Elite knight beats reg spear on plains. Two archers also dispatched, and we get on promotion.
Elite knight beats reg pike in liverpool
Lose two vet and one elite knight taking york (size 7 with pikes).
Foudn desert rats.

I think you forgot to upload the save.

Make sure you tell us where that French Galley went so we can (hopefully) chase it down.

I tried uploading the save, but alan's thingy crashed three or four times. I PM'd him about it. In the interim, I've put it here. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bismarck_of_the_Germans,_650_AD.SAV)

The french galley is off the coast just northwest of where the french were -> its skulking around the mainland, heading north. I actually considered abandoning a city to let it land and refound, but I have a feeling that the AI uses 'go-to' for these sorts of things, and rearely re-evaluates its options. So I didn't. Moving the palace should reduce flip probabilities => the in-game max distance to the palace (even if you don't have one) is something like 40, so with our palace in Berlin, the french palace is probably still being treated as closer than ours to the french core! Will all change next turn. :)

The AI has developed in some unexpectedly tough beasts, didn't they? Well played Ainwood. :thumbsup: About Sun Tzu's: wouldn't it actually be better if SunTzu's was build on one of the other continents? Make it our target and get free Rax in the future war zone? Japan has no Iron and will get it first. :evil: We'll have 31 turns to prepare the invation (with Cavs?) How many turns to Leo's? I bet it's less than 31 turns!

I can't load the save, Ainwood. I think that is also what's troubling the babybeast, it is somehow corrupt.

Uh-oh... I was about to post my 'got it'... but I can't check the save at work (even though Civ would run on this PC but I will be strong and resist the temptation to install it).

I am withholding any comment (and holding my breath) until we discover that it's all ok. http://gotm.civfanatics.net/common/smilies/nervous.gif

I like the idea of having Barracks in all of our cities on the other continent. Let's see if one of those civs can build Sun Tzu.

:bump: Any news about our save? I am still unable to check it... (nice excuse to use that smiley for the first time :D )

Sorry people => It loaded fine on my PC. Must have been the upload to the CFC server. Worse news is that I've gone away for the entire weekend. Managed to send the girlfriend and her daughter off to the ballet for a couple of hours and sneak off to an internet cafe, but don't have the game here. :(

Please accept my humble apologies!

Nooooooo! Not the whole weekend! :cry: You can't do this to me. Now I'm going to have to watch the football! :eek: ;)





:joke:

Enjoy your break, Ainwood. :)

Nooooooo! Not the whole weekend! :cry: You can't do this to me. Now I'm going to have to watch the football! :eek: ;)

:rotfl:
You're right. But there is no escaping it, you know.

Whatever you do with your tv this month, it's going to be pre-game discussions, live matches, and post-game blablabla... :ack:

BTW, for the health of your nationals, I hope that Holland and Italy don't meet this time :p and that we don't meet France...

Sorry about that => back to normal now, and the save is here (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/STAFF_SG002_AD0590_01.SAV).

By football, did you mean rugby, where New Zealand thrashed England 36 - 3??? :D

(or was it just Euro 2004?)

Definitely not good times for England, whatever side you look from... :ack:

I'll pick it tomorrow morning.

Definitely not good times for England, whatever side you look from... :ack:

I'll pick it tomorrow morning.
we lost the cricket. Again.

I think I got it, but... why is it 590 AD? :confused:

:blush: Because I uploaded the wrong file. :(

The 'right' one is here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bismarck_of_the_Germans,_650_AD1.SAV)

Makes sense ;)

Got it, and eager to start playing... ("only" 8 hours from now :D )

I have been away for several days. I went to check the score of the other teams and noticed that our latest score is for 590 AD. I think ainwood must have posted the wrong game for the score table also. Please take a look.

It also looks as if Kuningas' team finished in 980 AD. Can we equal that?

I have been away for several days. I went to check the score of the other teams and noticed that our latest score is for 590 AD. I think ainwood must have posted the wrong game for the score table also. Please take a look.

It also looks as if Kuningas' team finished in 980 AD. Can we equal that?
Yes, I did :( I'll repost it. :)

Yuk. Civ3 didn't want the save I downloaded from the link in this thread. The one in the submission page works fine :thumbsup:

I'm playing now.

Stranger and stranger..... To put the one into submission form, I downloaded it from the link! :crazyeye:

Well, whatever. It worked, and we moved on :D

Pre-turn
We've got so much money that I fall to the temptation of rushing settlers in the russian cities and libraries where border expansion can help us.

Ah, ok. We *are* at war with the English :D

Switch a couple more inland cities from Library to Settler, then press Enter.

English Swordsman kills veteran Knight.
English Archer redlines Knight but leaves single Spear in Liverpool

Turn 1 - 660 AD
Liverpool is taken with no losses.
Move troops, workers and settlers.

Order a few more Galleys, send a couple of Knights north in preparation for an attack on the Japanese outposts.
Make some plans to settle the tundra island north of Bonn too.

IT
Nothing much

Turn 2 - 670 AD
Keep on moving troops.
Found New
A stupid Swordsman of ours gets killed attacking Coventry.

IT
Nothing really

Turn 3 - 680 AD
Coventry is taken. Attack Newcastle and Dover. The former is brought down to one spearman (no losses on our side), the second is guarded by Pikemen and resists a two-Knight-attack (one Pike dead, the second redlines our unit).

Move three Galleys south-east from Bonn.

IT
Huge border expansion.
Our Palace looks really good with a middle-eastern wing...

Turn 4 - 690 AD
Little Sense founded in the tundra island
Just Because founded on the coast north of Frankfurt

Coventry and Newcastle taken for no losses (but no great leader!)

IT
Saw the French Galley sailing. Where is she going?

Turn 5 - 700 AD
She thinks I still Care founded not far from See the pretty fishies

Wait for troops to heal before launching the final attack on England.

IT
We discover Gunpowder from the Great Library. Now I don't know what to do with research: Education at max to reach Astronomy and be able to invade the other continent? Or Chemistry? It would take about 15-20 turns to reach Military Tradition even at max science,

Turn 6 - 710 AD
Name founded to fill a gap

Hastings and Brighton are taken for the loss of one (elite) Knight.
And the English are no more? No! They've got a Settler in a Galley, who has just left the harbour of Brighton. I can't believe this. There are two civs floating around... :lol:

Anyway. They know Education, so I believe it will come around shortly, and goodbye Great Libary.
I set research to Chemistry at 60% (due in 9 turns)

IT
Rouen flips to France. You only let me put my hands on their Galley...

Turn 7 - 720 AD
This town founded
Troops march towards Rouen

IT
Rien du tout

Turn 8 - 730 AD
Everybody has the blues and Green River founded

Well, the Japanese cities on "our" islands have all reached pop 2, so why not declare the Japanese...

IT
Nada

Turn 9 - 740 AD
We liberate Rouen and gain 490 gold

Capture Bizen

IT
Nuffin'

Turn 10 - 750 AD
Attack the elite French Galley with a regular one, redline it but horribly sink.
Rush two more Galleys in Dover and Born Again Avignon. The French are surrounded.

Chase the English galley (I think we should keep it alive until we get Education)

Capture Fukushima with a Japanese Settler.
Resistance ends in a couple of French cities in the west, which riot.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM2-Staff-750AD.jpg

Notes
Sorry -once again, I left some units on auto-move. They are mainly knights, going towards our east coast, and Settlers heading to free coastal spots on our continent.

There is still one easy Japanese city to take. After that, we could either sign peace or ally with someone on their continent just to entertain them a little bit while they are waiting for us... :D

I am not really sure that we can or even need to reach Military Tradition to win the game. I kept research on at a relatively high rate not to waste turns, but if can decide to switch it off completely it's ok with me. We haven't invested too much yet.

** The save! ** (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/STAFF_SG002_AD0750_01.SAV)

Looks Good, Karasu!

Do the Japanese still have their iron, or did they lose it? Perhaps it would be a good time to get alliances signed against Japan, so that the other continent can weaken itself by waging a few wars? We can then rock-on-in and clean up! :)

Score-graphs going back the right-way too! :D Rushing those settlers was a good idea. :)

If I remember correctly, both Japan and China have Iron connected -which *does* suggest something... :D

Should we just turn off research and use our cash to upgrade units? Perhaps disconnect Iron, build Horses, upgrade them to Knights, ship them across the ocean (is there a safe passage) and blitz through the other civs.

Good job, Karasu. I see you have reversed our little downslide in the score. :)

Thanks, mates -I just built on your previous work :D

I was thinking along the same lines as Zagnut: I haven't checked mapstat, but if there are no hidden landmasses we should not be too far from domination.
Which means that MT may arrive too late, especially if we want to close the game within the next 20-30 turns (that is, I wasted quite some gold with Chemistry :blush: ).

So, a massive buildup of Knights is probably the way to go -disconnecting our Iron sources.

Unfortunately, I don't think there is any safe passage that won't require either Lighthouse or Astronomy. So, shall we wait for someone else to discover it (only the English have it for the time being, and they didn't want to trade for it a couple of turns ago) and then go full speed to Astronomy?

I had a bit of a play with some scoring things...

The unhappy and content are costing us quite a few points / turn, so perhaps we should up the luxuries a bit? Perhaps raise luxuries by 10% and see what the effect on #happy actually is?

Also, we are still quite a way from the domination limit, so closing-out ownership of the easy tiles on our continent and the little islands has to be a priority. :)

How much gold do we actually have? We don't have Leo's, do we? If we had that then cutting-off the iron would be a great option. :)

Got it. I will look at the save and post some thoughts tomorrow morning.

I looked at the save just now and things *are* looking good guys! Well done! :thumbsup:

I like Ainwoods suggestion to up the lux slider a bit to max out points. I'm currently milking my COTM1 effort so I'm gaining some experience in it. :ack: If there's one thing to completely cure any builder inclinations it's milking, BTW. So many hours went into it already and I still only in the 17 hundreds. :crazyeye:

I just don't have the patience for a milking game. My games seem to take long enough as it is. If I milked a GOTM I would never finish! If I did try it I am sure I would stumble over the domination limit by accident.

I admire all you folks who can stick to it and milk all the way to 2050.

I'm not there yet, Zagnut, I *will* see it through, if only to justify the time I spent already on it. :eek:

OK, so what's the plan for the balance of the game? I must admit I have been unable to pay much attention to the game recently. I just took a look and see that we are magnificent and getting more so.

Ainwood asked if we have Leo's. We do not. We are 18 turns away, but could decrease that to 15 by putting the citizen to work on the mining square.

Japan still appears to have only one source of Iron, near their capital. I second ainwood's capital idea to land there when we start the invasion. HOWEVER, there is no safe way across the ocean that I can find. We are going to have to get to Magnetism before we can invade. Therefore, shouldn't we just give up on the Great Library and head as fast as we can to Magnetism? That will probably take about 30 turns unless we can trigger a Golden Age. We haven't had one that I can remember. Sun Tzu and Leo's can trigger for a militaristic civ and Copernicus and Newton for a scientific. So many other civs are going for Sun Tzu it is unlikely we can get it, but perhaps we should start a prebuild for Copernicus in case Leo's doesn't trigger our GA. Nuremburg could probably build it the fastest.

We already own a Scientific wonder, and Leo is militaristic. So our GA is safe. Actually, the Great Wall is militaristic too, so our GA is going to be triggered by the first wonder we build, whatever it is.

Since Japan reached our continent with Lighthouse-powered galleys, there should be at least one safe sea route available to us with Astronomy + Caravels.
This means that we may not need to research as far as Magnetism. Will we need Military Tradition? If we have to compete with a pre-1000 AD finish, we should be able to close the game within the next 20-30 turns.

What does Mapstat say? (I still have to install it on this PC... :blush: )

We already own a Scientific wonder, and Leo is militaristic. So our GA is safe. Actually, the Great Wall is militaristic too, so our GA is going to be triggered by the first wonder we build, whatever it is.

You are correct. I forgot about the wonders we captured.

Since Japan reached our continent with Lighthouse-powered galleys, there should be at least one safe sea route available to us with Astronomy + Caravels.

:blush: I forgot that Astronomy means we can safely start from a sea square.

This means that we may not need to research as far as Magnetism. Will we need Military Tradition? If we have to compete with a pre-1000 AD finish, we should be able to close the game within the next 20-30 turns.

Probably not. Let's build a bunch of Knights, pre-build Caravels and invade the other continent ASAP. Then we can research MT and finish the game even sooner.

:bump: Space, where are you? I'm curious! :D

Sorry guys, I am in a very busy stage of the year. I'll try to play tonight.

BTW I finally finished my COTM01 effort! But I still have to write my reports in the spoilers too, so many things to do, and so little time...

goals:
1. Research Astronomy, build caravels and get thos knights over to Japan.
2. Claim as much land as I can on the home continent and islands.
3. Max happiness for scoring.

pre-turn
Rush a settler in stuttgart, to claim more of the eastern island.
Switch She thinks... to Harbor, so we can upgrade later.
Education is known by 2 of the Ai so will get in next turn, good!. I'll switch off science for this turn.

IT
We spot the English Galley.
Education comes in, start Astronomy.
Hastings flips, grrr, I moved the Elite Knight in. :smoke:

turn 1 - 760AD
English Galley sunk, Hasting retaken, and yes: we've seen the last of them!
Found Mehr-am-mer, continue roading and so connecting the cities to our luxeries for increased happiness.
Sell our WM for petty cash.
Decide to choose for Astronomy in 8 at 40%, instead of 5 at 50%, becaiuse we'll need cash to upgrade the Galleys.

IT
Since we need the money for Science the WLTK days end.

turn 2 - 770AD
Our Galley sinks a French one, and... http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/FrenchGalleySunk.JPG
Attack and capture Suo at the cost of 1 Knight.
Found Get that Whale.

turn 3 - 780AD
Found Pfeltz next to the furs.
Japan is already willing to talk when I call them.
India and China both know about gunpowder, I considered signing them against Japan, but I decided to save the money and hope that the 12g that Japan has is not enough to persuade them to trade it.

turn 4 - 790AD
Found ImmerJungleSpaz

IT
Japan starts Sistines in Tokyo.

turn 5 - 800AD
Found AlaskanDream.
Astronomy in 4 turns at +1gpt.
Found WestEnd.
Spotted a Japanese Galley move some troops around in case it will land troops.

turn 6 - 810AD
Found KeineAhnung.
The Japanese Galley keeps to the seas, so maybe it's heading for their former colonies.

turn 7 - 820AD
Found Spices-bad.
I decide to spend 133g to get Astronomy one turn sooner, ie next turn and spend a further 68g to rush the Harbor.

IT
Astronomy comes in, start Chemistry at a slower pace.

turn 8 - 830AD
Upgrade 3 Galleys, it costs only 20g per unit, the others are on their way to the harbor.

IT
Japan lands a Samurai and a Sword on their former island. I decide to not attack but let the Knight defend.

turn 9 - 840AD
Found GoldenNugget and NichtAlsSand.

IT
Our Knight defends remarkebly against the Samurai, it dies. The Sword gets redlined but wins and promotes.
Japan finishes the Art of War. :(

turn 10 - 850AD
Load 2 Knights in a Caravel to retrieve Fukushima.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Fukushima.JPG

Leo's is due in 5 turns, and so is our GA! Mapstat says 270 tiles and 50 pop to the domination limit.

edit: Japan owns 314 tiles...

It looks as if you have set me up to invade. However, did you find a safe path across the ocean? The only one I see is from Hastings, west to Macao and Lahore. If we cross there that means we have to sail all the way around our continent and then all the way up the east coast of the other continent to reach Japan. That will take forever. Am I missing something?

I'm afraid not. I found Knights and ships on the east part of the continent and worked from there. I found out only later that the only safe way is from the other side. What can be done is upgrade galleys in Alanshafen and move the Knights there. It will take more turns than we'd like. You could check whether the southern route is shorter.

That was probably started off by me. :( I started piling knights in Bonn (IIRC) because I felt we had enough to deal with the french and the english, and bonn was where the galleys were being built...

If the southern route is shorter does anyone have any objection if I stockpile our units in Hastings for an invasion against the Indians or Chinese. It just seems to me that it will take so long to get to Japan that it is not worth it.

Whether we decide to invade India/China or Japan it looks to me as if I will just be preparing the invasion and that the rest of you will have to fight it.

I will also follow space's goals 2 and 3 which were:
2. Claim as much land as I can on the home continent and islands.
3. Max happiness for scoring
and produce as many Caravels and Knights as possible.

A random thought: Perhaps we could speed things up by capturing the great lighthouse?

Well, I must have contributed to sending units and ships to our eastern shores... Ops :smoke:

...well, at least they toured our continent :D

A random thought: Perhaps we could speed things up by capturing the great lighthouse?

That depends on whether we decide to invade Japan since it owns the GL. My feeling is that it will take us so long to get to Japan that it will not be worth it. I think we should invade India and China and ally with Japan simply because they are so far away. Let me know your thoughts before I start.

I gather we are strong enough to attack anybody. We only need 270 more tiles, since there are still some expansions coming (and more can be got by short rushing more libraries) I doesn't matter too much which one we take (although it might be wise to take on the one with the least culture...).

I agree with you on the culture issue. I will take a look at the game later and see which of the two would be the best target. Regardless of which one it is selected, I think I will just be preparing the assault. It will probably take all of my 10 turns just to get our existing ships into position in Hastings. It will probably be faster to off load the Knights and send them by land to Hastings.

Unless I hear otherwise from any of you I will start preparing for an invasion from Hastings.