SGOTM2 Game Thread

Welcome to your game thread for SGOTM2-Germany

Here is the start position.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM2-start-position.jpg

Each team has their own save file. Please download and play from the correct save. If you use the wrong save the server will not accept your submission. Also, please make sure that the software version is correct. PM me immediately if it is not.

You can download your save file >>HERE<<. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm_submission_list.php)

The Roster
Berrern (Resigned)
Demiurge
Furiey
Knappagh1
tao
NeoXultragoth

Hey Guys,
Knappagh1 signing in here. Becuase this is my first SG, i will have to relay on you guys for help esp on MM. Im normally a regent player, so this is my first real step up to Monarch.

As for what type of game you want to play, i will let you more experienced SG players decide. Im more of a builder but i dont mind the odd war or two.

I got a pm from Berrern saying that he has to drop out because of too many other commitments. Maybe we get another player in the team later.

Thus I started:

Germany is (mil,sci) and F10/space race shows the victims:
Russia (exp, sci) - pottery, bronze
France (com,ind) - alphabet, masonry
England (com, exp) - alphabet, pottery
Japan (mil,rel) - wc or whel, cb
India (com,rel) - alphabet, cb
China (mil,ind) - wc or wheel, masonry

I decided not to gamble on being able to trade for pottery, but to research it.

4000: no lux/bonus to see, but 2 bg
worker E sees game; great, we will chop and irrigate later for granary
Berlin founded on the spot; we see wheat W; even better; s warrior
research pottery full speed due in 14
3950: worker mines
3750: Berlin b warrior s next; warrior explores N-E
3650: mine done; road; warrior sees another wheat in the E and flood plains; great
3550: Berlin b warrior s next; 2nd warrior goes south
3500: worker on game
3450: E warrior at coast; worker starts chopping forest
3400: we learn pottery and start min research on iron; Berlin b warrior s next; 3rd warrior goes W
3300: Berlin b warrior s granary; E warrior sees incense
3250: S warrior sees Russian border; Cathy cautious, 10g, tech parity
3150: English scout appears; Liz cautious, has alpha lacks wc, but no good trade; E warrior sees goody huts, cow
3050: hut gives 25g :(
3000: scores are Germany 69, Russia 69, England 68; 4 warriors, 1 worker.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM2_tao_3000BC.jpg

Outlook: next turn, 10 shields from lumbering will go to granary; irrigate afterwards; with irrigated game, irrigated wheat, and 2 bg, we will have a 5 turn settler factory. :D
Please be careful: use luxury slider to prevent riots; squeeze in another unit if necessary if settler would be built before growing to pop 6; do not drop back to pop 3! With raging barbs, it is advisable to check each turn whether the AIs have any workers for sale; always buy them!

The save. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/tao_SG002_BC3000.SAV)

Suggested roster:
Demiurge (next)
Furiey
Knappagh1

How come we had over 20 views of this thread, when we are not allowed to look in other peoples' threads? :nono:

Feels good to be rolling. Downloaded the sav. I have a few things to do this a.m. but will look it over and check in later this afternoon prior to playing turns.

Anyone have thoughts on victory condition yet?

If we go for variant, we need to really think about our trading partners. Being a Monarchy game, tech pace will be slow and any help we can get/give to speed up the tech pace will be crucial. So that decision should be made prior to starting any major wars.

IBT: English scout disappears into black
2950 (turn 1): worker 1 completes forest (10 shields dumped to Berlin, granary in 4); worker 1 irrigates game; S warrior S; E warrior S; W warrior W
2900 (turn 2): S warrior S sees incense (Cathy has high food start! If disease doesn't get the best of her. She's going to be coming after our spices.); E warrior S; W warrior W (Its a jungle out there. We're going to need some serious chain gangs.)
2850 (turn 3): S warrior SW; E warrior SE; W warrior SE; Liz builds 2nd city, York
2800 (turn 4): S warrior SW; E warrior S; W warrior S; Cathy up cb; Liz has alpha lacks wc; Cathy wants 75g, we have 80g, for cb which would give us two techs and 5g to try and get alpha from Liz. I'm thinking she won't trade alpha except for gpt + techs which I'm not willing to do at this point and we can afford to wait a little.
2750 (turn 5): Berlin builds granary, set to warrior; worker 1 irrigates game starts road; S warrior explores SW; E warrior explores S; W warrior explores W; Moscow drops to size 1, she must have produced first settler or starved (one can hope) lux set to 10% to prevent disorder
2710 (turn 6): S warrior explores S; E warrior explores SE; W warrior explores W sees hut
2670 (turn 7): S warrior explores S; E warrior explores SE; W warrior pops hut get cb :) ; Liz wants cb + wc + 90g (everything we have for alpha) not happening; tech parity with Cathy
2630 (turn 8): Berlin builds warrior 5 moves N to find Liz, set to settler; worker 1 roads game moves to BG NW of Berlin; S warrior explores E; E warrior explores E sees ivory; W warrior explores W sees spices; Liz now has wc, up alpha, lacking cb, no good trade
2590 (turn 9): worker 1 roads BG; S warrior S; E warrior E; W warrior W; N warrior NW; Cathy builds second city, St. Petersburg
2550 (turn 10): S warrior SE; E warrior E; W warrior NW; N warrior N sees ivory; lux set to 20% to prevent disorder

post-turn log: Worker's roading BG on his way to wheat. Suggest moving to wheat next to irrigate prior to mining BG. Settler factory is close to up and pumping! Continue exploring. We need to find Liz ASAP.

Here is our world at 2550:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Post1.jpg


The score: England 89, Russia 81, Germany 79

The Save:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/tao_SG002_BC2550_01.SAV

Roster:
Furiey (next)
Knappagh1
tao
Demiurge

You need to upload the save to the server Demiurge. Use the Upload link in my sig.

Sorry MB. Relatively new to this process and I'm still trying to figure it out.

post-turn log: Worker's roading BG on his way to wheat. Suggest moving to wheat next to irrigate prior to mining BG. Settler factory is close to up and pumping! Continue exploring. We need to find Liz ASAP.Please note: it is very bad, if Berlin produces settler in 3 turns before growth due in 4 turns. But: if we mm the turn before the settler is build to use the grasland instead of the forest, growth and settler will coincide in 3 turns. :D

I would not have started building the road before irrigation of the wheat and the mining. We have no cash shortage, but want to rex. Now we should irrigate first IMHO.

PS: try quoting my post to see how images are referenced.Or use the icon above the text box when composing post.

tao is exactly right. Oversight on my part. I thought I did that. :blush: Obviously not. Good catch tao. That's why you're the team leader.

I would not have started building the road before irrigation of the wheat and the mining. We have no cash shortage, but want to rex. Now we should irrigate first IMHO.

I definately would bow to your better judgement here. Just a question as to your thought process on why. Here are my reasons for roading the BG first. First, our settler is due in 4 turns (once Furiey does the MMing I overlooked) and we will probably want to go north. The BG road will be completed and the settler will reach its destination that much sooner. Secondly I typically try not to move workers over unroaded territory. By roading the BG first, we save a worker turn when it backtracks to mine the BG. Am I missing something?

With the arrival of our first settler we should probably start discussion on city placement. I set up a couple of RCP grids to look at for visual aids.

The first at RCP3:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RCP3.jpg

...and the second at RCP4: Probably my preference given the map. The numbers represent my suggestions for first and second city placement. I know 2 will be fairly unproductive but I'm concerned Cathy will get greedy and try to claim our spices.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RCP4.jpg

I also would go rcp distance 4. And would think about moving "1" 1 tile NE and "2" 1 tile SW.

Hi guys, I have a new team member for you.

Please welcome NeoXultragoth. There's no chance that I spelled that right ;)

First of all welcome to Team tao NeoXultragoth. Can I ask what level you are comfortable playing? Looks like you were right on the money MB :goodjob:

Updated roster (current playing order):
Furiey (next)
Knappagh1
NeoXultragoth
tao
Demiurge

I also would go rcp distance 4. And would think about moving "1" 1 tile NE and "2" 1 tile SW.

Those moves look good to me. I was showing exact RCP4 in my screenshots for discussion. With the adjustments those two cites will be at 4.5, in a better location and I almost never hold to exact RCP anyway.

Some general map observations: Based on what we know now, I would say Cathy and Liz will be our early game rivals. There might be one other civ with us, but...With 3 continents and 6 rivals, France, Japan, India and China are probaby divided up on the two other continents. Three on one, one isolated? Just a guess.

A post of the world map:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Locale2.jpg

Those moves look good to me. I was showing exact RCP4 in my screenshots for discussion. With the adjustments those two cites will be at 4.5, in a better location and I almost never hold to exact RCP anyway.For rcp calculation in vanilla civ, distances are truncated: x.5 == x

And I want to emphasize that we will need lots of workers. The wheat/floodpains in the east look good for this. I would not however aggressively settle the jungle. Better leave this to others and go for better sites first.

And we will need lots of settler escorts and defenders against raging barbs. :(

I didn't know that. So the calculation rounds down? In this case 4.5=4 not 5? You learn something new all the time.

Are you suggesting we settle 1st to the north and 2nd towards the wheat in the east to speed expansion in that direction? Also with the two BG and forests, a good warrior factory.

I've got it btw and am now playing. I agree with RCP of 4. I'm going for tao's site 1, site 2 I think depends on how closely we're going to build. Will post piccies. Think I'm going to have to Sn00pify my vanilla Civ. I've got Sn00py graphics on PTW and C3C, but my Vanilla is Vanilla, finding it frustrating though.

Demiurge - for ring calcs I use Dianthus' RCPRings in his CivReplay suite - see his sig for the link. The rounding down caught me out when I first came across it.

Demiurge - for ring calcs I use Dianthus' RCPRings in his CivReplay suite - see his sig for the link. The rounding down caught me out when I first came across it.

Unfortunately Furiey I'm on a Mac and the way it handles Civ3 I don't believe I can use it. I would love to be proven wrong here but it's the same reason I have to hide Civ every time I make an entry into a text editor when writing my turnlog. Very cumbersome.

2550 (Turn 0): Nothing to do that I can see but look around. I see what you mean about Cathy’s high growth start! I prefer tao’s spot for city 1. The location for city 2 I think depends on how closely we want to build. Pressing the Button.
IBT: 3/3 Russian Warrior approaches and stops on the southern of the 2 mountains to the west of Berlin.
2510 BC (Turn 1): Iron working in 21; N Warrior N and sees more of the same; E Warrior W – jungle appears to be clearing; S Warrior SE – SE coast comes in view; W Warrior NW – coast? Check trades – Liz still wants everything we have and gpt for Alphabet, she has York and Nottingham as cities (not sure if she had them before)
IBT: W Russian Warrior N to other mountain; Barb Warrior appears on mountain N of N Warrior.
2470 BC (Turn 2): MM Berlin to Grow in 1, Settler in 1; Worker 1 NE to Wheat; E Warrior S; S Warrior S – coast but there’s a link to more land E; W Warrior NW; N Warrior (by Barb) Fortifies; another Barb moves to where the last one was.
IBT: W Russian Warrior N; Barb Warrior attacks fortified N Warrior. Barb defeated, N Warrior 2/3. Berlin builds Settler, Warrior (in 2) next, growth in 4.
2430 BC (Turn 3): Settler moves to Mountain NNE; Worker Irrigates Wheat; N Warrior now 3/3 again Fortifies; Warrior in Berlin joins Settler as escort. Happiness OK, Warrior will build before growth. E Warrior SE; S Warrior NE; W Warrior N; Liz still wants everything for CB, but no longer needs gpt as well – hmm, soon maybe.
IBT: Russian Warrior N; Barb attacks fortified N Warrior – barb defeated, Warrior promoted 4/4.
2390 BC (Turn 4): Iron Working in 18; Berlin MM to still give Warrior in 1 but growth in 2; Settler/Escort N; N Warrior N – sees coast; E Warrior SE sees Coast to SE; S Warrior NE; W Warrior N – coast.
IBT: Russian Warrior NE onto city site – grrrr; Berlin builds Warrior, another queued and Berlin MM to give Warrior in 2, growth in 1.
2350 BC (Turn 5): New Warrior fortified in Berlin; Settler/Escort NW – hopefully that Russian Warrior will move; N Warrior N – spots Barb camp on mountain E; W Warrior E; S Warrior NE; E Warrior S; No change trade wise.
IBT: Russian Warrior E – yippee no longer on the city site! Barb appears WNW of S Warrior;
2310 BC (Turn 6): S Warrior E; E Warrior SW (the area explored by these will soon meet); Settler/Escort W to city site; N Warrior N; W Warrior SE; Berlin now size 5, MM to give Warrior in 1, growth in 3 – Settler next. No change for trades.
IBT: Russian Warrior Moves N; Berlin produces Warrior, Settler queued.
2270 BC (Turn 7): Worker 1 starts Road; Leipzig founded! – the tile to the W of the NW Ivory is FP. Berlin MM to give Leipzig wheat, but still grow in 2, Settler in 5 (less with future MM); Leipzig produces +3 food, 2spt, Barracks in 10 queued for a start – might not stay; N Warrior N; W Warrior SE; S Warrior SE – coast; E Warrior S; new Berlin Warrior Fortified; Lux dropped to 10%.
IBT: Barb appears WNW of S Warrior, Russian Warrior disappears into fog E.
2230 BC (Turn 8): Berlin MM to give growth in 1, settler in 3; S Warrior N; E Warrior N, N Warrior N – sees coast to the W?; W Warrior S; will need to adjust lux next turn when Berlin grows.
IBT: Russian Warrior reappears back where he was; Barb now in forest SW of S Warrior.
2190 BC (Turn 9): Lux set back to 20%; Berlin MM to give Settler in 2 with higher food; S Warrior N – goody hut ENE on hill, E Warrior N, N Warrior N – coast – where is Liz?; W Warrior S;
IBT: Barb now S of S Warrior; Russian Warrior moves onto gold mountain in our territory E of Leipzig
2150 BC (Turn 10): Berlin MM to give Settler in 1, size 7 in 2; Worker 1 NW; N Warrior W – more land! W Warrior S; S Warrior NE – assuming the Barb follows the next up will have the choice between attacking or popping the goodie hut; E Warrior NE; Trades: Cathy now has Iron Working, Liz has Alphabet and the Wheel.

The Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/tao_SG002_BC2150_01.SAV)

We have another Settler being produced next turn, the irrigated wheat can probably then go back to Leipzig. We also have some potential 3 way trading:

To summarise: we have CB, 136gold, +9gpt
Liz wants: for Alphabet –> CB + 120gold
or for the Wheel –> CB + 116 gold
Cathy wants for Iron Working –> 5gpt + 100gold

I’ve not played a succession game before, so have left it at that for now

RCP pics to come.

minimap 2150 BC

Furiey: you can upload the save to the server using the "Upload to Server" link in my sig (then bookmark it). This allows the score to be entered and the graph updated.

Stictly speaking you don't need to provide a link to your save in the game thread since it can be downloaded from the server using the "downloads and scores" link in my sig.

I suggest to mm Berlin to grow and produce settler in 2 turns. I would have mined the bg first before building the road to Leipzig. That would have completed our 5 turn settler factory. Early in the game rex is more important than money. It might be best to build another worker in 2 turns/grow in 2 turns next in Berlin, since we are not industrious.

PS: Did you check for available workers every turn?

PPS: Wheat not to Leipzig, 5 turn settler factoty in Berlin!!!

As promised rings piccies, with overlaid city boundaries (there is no significance to 9 being highlighted) 1st one a loose build, second a tighter build. B tight gives us a city with the Wheat in the East - looks like there's FP further E, plus there' incense over there as well, we will need to get the spices soon or Cathy will get them - with that growth why does she still have only 2 cities total though?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/tao_SOGM2_2150BC_ringsloose.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/tao_SOGM2_2150BC_ringstight.jpg

Thanks mad-bax - my first one of these

checked every turn - no workers, re: mining bg - I agree realised as soon as I moved the worker.

I prefer the tighter build with all the jungle to the south. We effectively cut the number of early productive cities in half around our capital.

As far as second city placement, I'd vote for getting our next over to "B" in the tight placement above. Given the rate Cathy's settling, (Does the ai suffer from disease?) we might be able to gamble and hold off on settling the spices.

ps: Just checked the save, Moscow's up to size 3, there's a settler in her near future.

The roster — current playing order:
Knappagh1 (next)
NeoXultragoth
tao
Demiurge
Furiey

Hey guy's,

Just got the game now. I wont be able to play until i get home later Today.

Any thoughts on my turns. I see that there is a settler due shortly in Moscow. Should we go for the spices first or settle on "B" in the tight placement? Personally, I would go for the spices first. We dont really want the AI parked on our doorstep this early in the game.

I would also go for the spices first. Please also micromanage Berlin to grow and produce settler in 2 turns.

Preturn Checks.
MM Berlin to Settler in 2.
Russian Warrior on hill East of Leipzeg.
Press Return

Turn One (2110 BC)
South Warrior - East to Hut. Popped Barbs. SE Warrior, East to Explore Coast line. Worker - Road to Leipzeg. N Warrior, West. W Warrior South. Sees Liz's Borders.

IBT, S Warrior gets promoted to Elite(-3HP) care of 3 Barbs.

Turn Two (2070 BC)
Berlin produces Settler > Spear. MM so Spear and growth both in 3. Send Settler and Warrior to Spices. North Warrior - North. West Warrior - West. SE Warrior - East. S Warrior, fortified on hill @ 2hp.

IBT, South Warrior dies at hands of Barb.

Turn 3 (2030 BC)
Dip with Cathy reveals she has a worker for sale @ 30G. I take it.
North Warrior - North towards mountains. See's Barb Camp. Russia worker to help with road to Ivory. East Warrior - North. West Warrior - South.

IBT, Nothing

Turn 4 (1990 BC)
North Warrior takes Barb camp. Looses 2hp. See's what looks like an Island to the East. Workers finish road to Leipzig and move to Ivory. East Warrior - North. West warrior - South East.

IBT Nothing.

Turn 5 (1950 BC)
Berlin completes spear > settler due in 4 along with growth. The people love me and let me have the honour of laying the foundations to our Palace. Workers begin road to Ivory. Should be connected in 3. I found Armagh on the south spices. Wooooooo Hooooooo.. my first SG City!!!!! :D
East Warrior attacks Barb and wins -1hp. North warrior - North West.

Dip with cathy shows she has 3 Cities and is up IW on us. (171g + 2gpt). Liz has also 3 Cities and is up Alpha (171g +2gpt) and Wheel (171g +1gpt). We are making 11 gpt and Iw is due in 7.

IBT Nothing.

Turn 6 (1910 BC)
North Warrior - North West (being chased be 2 Barbs). East Warrior - North. See's more Spices. West Warrior - South. Ivory due next turn.

IBT, North warrios defeats Barb. Still @ 2hp.

Turn 7 (1870 BC)
Leipzig Barracks > Spear due in 10, Growth in 6. Road to Ivory completed. Mine ivory for extra production.
East Warrior - North. North Warrior - North West. See's Incense. West Warrior - East to Mountian over looking Eng. See's river, Bg and forest. London most likely on the River.

IBT, Liz is building the Pyramids.

Turn 8 (1830 BC)
North Warrior - North west. East Warrior - North west. West Warrior - South West.
Dip with Cathy shows she is now up Mas, Alpha and IW and looking 80g, 90g, and 200g respectivley. Liz is up Mas, Alpha and Wheel and looking the same for Alpha and Mas and 190g for Wheel.

Berlin Growth and Settler due in 1. Will send them to site "B". Leipzig growth in 5, Spear in 9. Armagh growth in 7 and Spear in 17.

IBT Nothing.

Turn 9 (1830 BC)
Berlin Settler > Spear in 3. MM for growth in 3 also. Send Settler and Warrior to site "B". East Warrior - North. North Warrior - North. West Warrior - South.(Takes us through Liz's teritory, but avoids backtracking.) West Warrior see's London @ size one.

IBT Liz asks us politley to move. Cathy demands 29g. I give in. Dont want to risk an early war especailly as they may have swordsmen.

Turn 10 (1750 BC)
North Warrior - West. See's Island to the West. Settler and Warrior heading North East on course for site "B". East Warrior - North West. West Warrior - South.

End of turn summary.
Liz is up Mas (80g) Alpha (90g) and Wheel (190g). She has 4 Cities.
Cathy is up Mas (80g) Alpha (90g) and IW (190g). She has 3 Cities.

Berlin is due Growth and Spear in 2. Leipzig is due growth in 3 and spear in 7. Armagh is due growth in 5 and spear in 15. Iw is due very shortly... i cant remember exactly when.

Settler and Warrior are heading for Site B on Furiey's Tight placement map.

Here's the save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/tao_SG002_BC1750_01.SAV

Just a couple of suggestions. Nice job scoring that worker from Cathy. That'll slow her down. I would have used it to mine that BG NW of Berlin prior to sending it N though. We need to mine that BG NW of Berlin ASAP. Also I think Leipzig should be producing warriors. We have a barracks there and we want to build cheap warriors to upgrade to swords later. I would also MM Berlin for settler in 3. Armagh could also produce a worker in 5 growth in 5 since workers will be of utmost importance on this map. With all the room for expansion, the ai won't be that aggressive and the spears seem unnecessary to me. Expansion and terrain improvements should be our priorities. Lux could be dropped back to 10%.

Apologies for not mining the Bg. I missed that somehow before i played. Also i went for spears because barbs are on raging afaik. Also, im just stepping up to Monarch so im not 100% sure as to how the AI will behave. Will take it all on board and learn!!!!

Just my opinion on the warriors, and don't get me wrong, I usually build a few spears myself. In the early game I use them more to defend my stacks of swords than for city defense though since I'm typically on the offensive.

No problem Demiurge. Just one of my habits. Because im more of a builder, i tend to have 2/3 spears per city. I would like to modify my stratagies to become more aggressive though.

Well it's been over 24 hours since Knappagh1 posted the sav and no word from NeoXultragoth. I checked and he hasn't logged in since joining the team. Not a good sign. I think we should give him/her a little more time, but how much is enough?

The roster — current playing order:
NeoXultragoth (next)
tao
Demiurge
Furiey
Knappagh1

I think tao should take his turn and keep the game moving. If NeoXultragoth doesnt show by his next turn, then we will have to continue as a team of 4.

I PM-ed Neo about the game: hopefully he will jump here and join the team.

Regarding the current turn, the decision is entirely up to the team whether you want to wait for a few more hours or to skip.

I alread PM-ed him twice on Sunday. No answer. Therefore I intend to play this evening, unless he shows up

pre-turn (1750): switch Berlin spear to archer (will be promoted by attacking barbs);
MM to give wheat to Leipzig for speeding growth without harming Berlin; reduce lux to 10%

1: 1725: 2 barbs approach N warrior; retreats on mountain
workers are done w Leipzig mine
IBT Liz offers masonry for 80g, but we deny

2: 1700: we learn iron working, but England also and thus no deals :(
nobody has iron connected; we have iron E of Berlin (can build colony w slave), England has iron currently outside of London
Berlin b archer s settler; archer heads towards Leipzig where barb approaches; workers start irrigating S of Leipzig
min research on mysticism; 20% lux
Hamburg founded starts warrior

IBT: N warrior is attacked by 2 barbs promotes to elite; 2 barbs approach Leipzig

3: 1675: archer kills barb promotes to vet

IBT: barb attacks archer and dies

4: 1650: irrigation done start mining bg; warrior starts to cross English territory
Russia knows mysticism; thus I set research to 0
mm wheat back to Berlin to coincide growth w settler production

IBT: another barb dies attacking out archer

5: 1625: Leipzig b spear start next (I prefer spear, because we soon will see barb horsemen)

6: 1600: Berlin b settler s worker; settler goes to claim iron

7: 1575: Hamburg b warrior (to defend new town) s worker
Konigsberg founded s barracks
our barb hunting party sees iron N of Leipzig, N warrior also sees iron

IBT: England pushed our warrior to the other side of their territoy

8: 1550: Berlin b worker s next; archer disperses barb camp getting 25g
S warrior sees pink borders (France?)
switch Armagh to barracks

IBT Russians start Oracle

9: 1525: we contact France; they have masonry, alphabet, wheel, but lack mysticism
buy mysticism from England for 67g
buy wheel from France for mysticism, 11g (got to know where horses are); and the horses are S of Konigsberg and far away in the SE
start min research on polytheism

10: 1500: Berlin b worker s settler; Armagh b barracks s warrior

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM2_tao_1500BC.jpg

Assessment: I suppose we know all civs on our landmass. Moscow b oracle, London and Paris b Pyramids; thus we can grow and conquer later what we want.
Berlin should now pump settlers, Hamburg workers (granary in between; once connected to the lux, we can pop rush. Irrigate the wheat, mine the bg, connect.
We should claim the horses S, the flood plains W, the incense E, maybe even the cattle WW.
Nobody seems to be N of us but barbarians.
We are last w Firaxis score 131. Jason score is 100.

The save. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/tao_SG002_BC1500_01.SAV)

Demiurge (next)
Furiey
Knappagh1
NeoXultragoth (skipped)
tao

Got the save and will play tomorrow. Given the time differences between us it will be long after you all go to bed though.

Anyone have an opinion at this time on what spacing we should try to build at for our second RCP ring? Seven too tight?

Anyone have an opinion at this time on what spacing we should try to build at for our second RCP ring? Seven too tight?I would probably go with 8: on the incense, at the coast, claiming western flood plains ....

I would like to see some more of the land to the SW, I generally prefer 8, but not sure how many cities we're going to be able to build on 8 in the Western Mountains.

Demiurge turn 2

Pre-turn
Look around, figures tao knows best, hits return

IBT: Russians settle near horses to near south. Typical ai though, settle so horses just outside borders. Will try to beat cheeks down there with settler to secure horses before Cathy expands. (Looks like MB set us up! We may need to secure horses with swords.)

1475 (turn 1): Leipzig worker NW to irrigate; N spear NW; N archer fortifies to heal; N warrior S; W warrior S; S warrior S

IBT: Barb horse appears between Konigsberg and Hamburg

1450 (turn 2): Leipzig produces spear (send towards Konigsberg) set to spear; Hamburg produces worker (holds in city for fear of losing it to barb) set to granary; paired workers S of Berlin complete road move to jungle to connect Armagh; N archer SE toward Hamburg; N spear W; N warrior W (sees edges of another island off coast); S warrior S; W warrior S; MM to give wheat to Leipzig without hurting Berlin; Russia & England have HBR, France lacking, buy HBR from Liz for 90g, trade HBR to France for Alpha + 3g. Everyone up masonry + writing.

IBT: Barb horse moves next to Konigsberg; another appears between Konigsberg and Hamburg

1425 (turn 3): Berlin spear sent to Konigsberg, Leipzig spear fortifies in Berlin, Konigsberg warrior moves toward Hamburg to protect worker; Armagh worker pair roads jungle; N spear moves W, yet another iron; N archer SE; Hamburg worker holds in city again; S warrior S; W warrior S; N warrior SE; MM wheat back to Berlin

IBT: Barb horse near Konigsberg dies, spear at 3; Barb horse moves next to Konigsberg; another appears between Konigsberg and Hamburg

1400 (turn 4): Berlin produces settler, send S to steal horses from Cathy; Spear fortifies in Konigsberg; warrior joins worker holding in Hamburg; N spear S; N warrior E; W warrior S; S warrior SE

IBT: S warrior attacked by barb promoted to vet; Konigsberg spear redlined but holds; barb horse moves next to Konigsberg

1375 (turn 5): Konigsberg spear heals; Armagh produces warrior, waits to escort settler bound for horses; N spear S; archer E; Hamburg warrior/worker to wheat; S warrior NE; W warrior E; N warrior E; settler continues S to Armagh

IBT: barb horse attacks Konigsberg, dies

1350 (turn 6): worker on grass S of Berlin completes road, mines grass; settler joins warrior holding in Armagh; worker near Leipzig completes irrigation, starts road; N spear W; N warrior E; archer SE; worker near Hamburg irrigates, warrior protecting fortifies; W warrior SE, S warrior S

IBT: Barb warrior appears near Leipzig

1325 (turn 7): Konigsberg builds barracks, set to spear; Leipzig changed to archer to hunt barbs (no shield loss); settler/warrior pair start trek towards horses; N spear E; N warrior S; archer E; S warrior S; W warrior SE

IBT: Barb warrior moves to near Leipzig

1300 (turn 8): Leipzig builds archer attacks barb loses one HP; Berlin builds settler, send toward incense, Berlin set to settler; N spear E; worker pair completes road to Armagh, moves to spices; settler pair continues toward horses; Archer S; N warrior S sees horses finally!; S warrior E; W warrior S; Hamburg worker seems safer now (archer close enough to protect it), send warrior to Hamburg, Hamburg warrior to Konigsberg so Konigsberg spear can escort settler to spices

IBT: English warrior appears near our newly discovered horses

1275 (turn 9): W warrior S; settler pair continues toward horses (Now that we've found horses nearby, I don't know if it's still worth sending them to steal horses from Cathy. They are close to two RCP 8 locations at this point. It will be the next players decision); worker pair starts roading spices; worker near Leipzig completes road, moves to ivory; N spear E; archer near Leipzig fortifies to heal; Konigsberg spear moves with settler toward spices; Hamburg warrior moves to Konigsberg; warrior fortifies in Hamburg; archer near Hamburg moves S barb hunting; N warrior W near horses; S warrior NE

IBT: France expands asks our W warrior to leave territory

1250 (turn 10): Armagh produces warrior, moves W, set to warrior; N spear reaches Leipzig for defense; warrior fortified in Leipzig moves N; archer near Leipzig heals, moves N hunting barb camp; worker near Hamburg finishes irrigation, starts road; worker near Leipzig mines ivory; archer S of Hamburg moves S hunting barb camp; settler pair on way to incense; settler pair on way to horses moves closer; S warrior NE; W warrior SE deeper into French territory; N warrior SW onto horses

Score: France & England 180; Russia 159; Germany 158

POST-TURN
Expansion: Well I didn't expand our empire much but there are two settlers near locations. The first pair I sent toward Cathy's horses before discovering the source to the N. They are two turns from reaching that location if the next player still decides to settle them or...they could settle one of two nearby RCP 8 locations. If I knew for sure Cathy didn't didn't have horses anywhere else, I'd vote to settle them. But, given the flip potential of that site and the uncertainty of whether she has horses elsewhere, I'm on the fence. The other pair is one turn from settling the incense near Hamburg.

Barbs: Several early horses near Konigsberg but none recently, one warrior recently near Leipzig; have archers in both areas hunting camps. I think the recent GOTMs have spoiled me where raging barbs haven't been that big of a problem. This map seems an entirely different story. I stand corrected. Those spears seem entirely in order Knappagh1. Happy farming!

Research: Everyone up masonry + writing; poly in 29 at minimum


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Pic1.jpg

Furiey (next)
Knappagh1
NeoXultragoth (turn 1 skipped)
tao
Demiurge

I think I would not settle for the "Russian" horses. They are too far away to connect before we attack Russia, I suppose. :D
I would go for the "rcp 8" position S of Armagh, probably ......

IMHO it was very bad to start roading the 2nd spices. We don't need it, we don't want to trade it. Probably I would abort the roading and build the much needed additional mine for Berlin. I would have done another warrior and worker in Hamburg. (Didn't I set the production queue?) We could need the mp and we need to mine the bg and road the jungle. Awful lot of work for a lone worker. I would settle on the incense. Again we need worker to connect. Thus probably another 1 or 2 in Berlin after the settler. A pity, but we need workers now, not after the granary in Hamburg.

Second spices: Sorry team, head you know where. Totally forgot we settled on top. Thought I was roading our first source.

Hamburg: I think there was some miscommunication there. Just checked, yes you set the queue. I never use them and didn't think to check. Nowhere in your log did you mention the fact. I right cllick when setting builds. I will check from now on. As far as the granary I was trying to follow your post-turn advice. Build worker, granary in between. Looks like the granary can be switched to an archer with no shield loss to get back on track.

Looks like the granary can be switched to an archer with no shield loss to get back on track.IMHO not a good idea. At emperor level and with 1 mp, we can have 2 citizens without riots. We just have to build the road thru the jungle to Konigsberg before mining the bg.

And we really have to turn Berlin into an effective settler factory (after building 1 more worker). We want to settle as much as possible before the massive uprisings start.

I will pick this up Sunday after I wake up from the demogame turnchat.

1250 BC(Turn 0): Aborted workers roading spices, moved to N of Armagh. Pressed button
IBT: English Warrior near Northern Horses goes E into the fog. Barb Horseman appears from E onto mountain SSE of our Settler/Spear heading for Incense.

1225 BC(Turn 1): Settler/Spear E to Incense, barb camp spotted E of incense; Berlin MM for Growth and Settler in 2; E Archer moves SE; N Warrior goes N; far N Warrior by horses goes W; E warrior goes N, spots English Warrior on Mountain S of Ivory, Eastish of Minsk; Warrior W of Armagh goes W – more mountains; Fortify Spear in Leipzig; Head S settler for spot S of Armagh; N Archer SE to get on road system to protect Warriors from barbs; Warrior in France S; Workers from Spices start building mine for Berlin. 346gold, +18gpt.
IBT: English Warrior S of Ivory goes NE; Barb Horse moves to S of Incense.

1200 BC(Turn 2): Build Frankfurt on the incense, dispersing the Barb cam and taking 25 gold; Fortify Spear in Frankfurt; Frankfurt build Warrior in 10; E Archer SE (N of what was barb camp); Warrior W of Armagh goes SW, Mountains and Forest, French Warrior is SW; N Archer to Leipzig; N Warrior NW spotting Wheat on Grass; W Warrior W; Settler -> SSE Armagh; E Warrior N; Warrior in France > SE, coast?; Trades unchanged; 389gold, +20gpt.
IBT: Joan demands we leave France, we comply; Russian Settler/Spear appear 2 South of our Settler SSE of Armagh; Barb Warrior from dispersed camp attacks Frankfurt and dies, Spear uninjured; Barb Horseman S of Frankfurt attacks, dies, promoting spear to 4/4; Another Barb Horse appears on mountain SSE of Frankfurt; Settler built in Berlin, worker queued; Leipzig Spearman>Spearman;

1175 BC(Turn 3): 2 Workers complete mine go 2SE Berlin to start another; Russian Worker S to Armagh to connect up new city there; Settler reaches site; Warrior W of Armagh > W; E Archer SE; E Warrior NE; warrior S of France SW – trapped by coast; Berlin MM grow in 2, worker in 2; Archer in Leipzig – 2SE; New Settler heads to site E, followed by Spear (Russians will probably take that down S) will probably have to look N towards horses for future sites; N Warrior W; W Warrior W
IBT:Barb Horseman moves to S of Frankfurt; Armagh: Warrior>Spear;

1150 BC(Turn 4): Russian Worker S; Workers 2SE Berlin, Mine; Worker S Hamburg, roads; E Archer SW; SE Warrior NE; Warrior outside France NW into France – hopefully Joan will let us cross; English scout is ESE of Armagh; Armagh Warrior SE; W Archer W; N Warrior W; Far W Warrior S; W Warrior W; build Munich SSW of Armagh; Munich starts Temple due to proximity to Moscow; Trades the same; 426gold +18gpt
IBT: Joan asks us to leave, we say we will, soon; Barb horseman appears 2 N of Leipzig, Barb Horseman attacks Frankfurt and dies. Berlin: Worker>Worker; French are building the Oracle.

1125 BC(Turn 5): New Berlin Worker goes to help road to Hamburg; Russian Worker starts roading; Armagh Warrior SE; With 1 turn 1 go I must interrupt to Worker mining by Leipzig or lose it to the Barb horseman, if I protect it with the spear in Leipzig the horseman will ransack Leipzig. W Archer back e, N Warrior SW; far W Warrior SW; E Archer S; E Warrior NE; Warrior in France NW; W Warrior SW; Interrupt mining Worker and put it in Leipzig – grrrr.
IBT French Settler/Spear pair head W along the road in front of our Warrior in France; Barb horse attacks Leipzig, dies (Spear was redlined);

1100 BC(Turn 6): N Warrior E; Found Heidelberg (Barracks in 10); Armagh Warrior SE; Leipzig worker moves back to mine ivory :(; W Archer N; W Warrior S; Worker helps roading to Hamburg; E Archer SW; E Warrior NE; Warrior in France, N; Far W Warrior SE; With their high growth start position, Russia still only has 5 cities;
IBT: Russian and French Warrior/Scouts run about a bit; Berlin: Worker>Settler; Our people want to build the Forbidden Palace!; Konigsburg; Spearman>Spearman;

1075 BC(Turn 7): Workers have completed Mine 2SW Berlin, now road; Armagh Warrior SE; E Archer SW; E Warrior NE; Leipzig worker mines; W Archer; W Archer N; N Warrior E – spots horseman 1N; Far W Warrior SE, W Warrior E – more Ivory for Russia; Warrior in France NW; Konigsburg Spear fortified, Warrior wakened and S; Berlin Worker to road in Frankfurt; No new trades.
IBT: Joan demands we leave, we comply; Barb horse attacks N Warrior, Warrior redlined but wins!

1050 BC(Turn 8): Warrior returns to Leipzig to heal, W Archer SE; Konigsburg Warrior E; E Archer S; E Warrior NW; W Warrior SE; Warrior from France NW; Far W Warrior SE; Armagh Warrior E, Spots Russian Settler/Spear SE
IBT: Russian Settler/Spear NE; Leipzig: Spear>Spear; Armagh: Spear>Spear (might not need these spears, but they can be changed)

1025 BC(Turn 9): Konigsburg Warrior NE, Worker starts roading E of Konigsburg; Armagh Warrior N; E Archer SW; E Warrior NW; Leipzig Spear to Berlin for next Settler; Workers 2W Berlin got to 1 NE Heidleberg; Armagh Spear S; W Warrior SE; W (well N now) Archer NW; Injured Warrior S onto road 1 N Leipzig; Far W Warrior S, spots barb camp in mountains; Warrior near France W – interesting one of the French towns is Canterbury – I didn’t notice when that happened.
IBT: Barb Horseman appears on floodplain W of the Worker mining the Ivory, Warrior appears on the floodplain 2W of Leipzig; Russian Settler settles.

1000 BC(Turn 10): MM Berlin to grow in 2, Settler in 2, Wheat given temporarily (again) to Leipzig. Archer kills Horseman, now 3/4; injured Warrior enters Leipzig and fortifies to heal; Armagh Warrior NE, E Archer E; Armagh Spear S; Warrior near Frankfurt N; Hamburg Workers N; E Warrior N; W Warrior N; Warrior near France W, Leipzig Spear reaches Berlin and Fortifies to await Settler.

We are still down Masonry and Writing to everyone, Polytheism due in 19
Scores: France – 209, England – 206, Germany – 189, Russia – 184
Treasury: 547gold + 24gpt

The Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/tao_SG002_BC1000_01.SAV)

Post Turn:
We have founded 3 cities and have another Settler being produced in 2 turns. There is still a barb 2W of Leipzig. Munich building a Temple – I’m not convinced about this, but only 6 shields accumulated so it can easily be changed. Barbarians are definitely annoying – our Spears are defending well though.

We do have lots of gold. Trades are now as follows (throwing in a WM knocks about 30gold off the price):
Masonry Writing
France 61 gold 115 gold
England 64 gold 121 gold
Russia 66 gold 125 gold
Polytheism is still 19 turns away at minimum research, is now the time to trade for cash, then trade Poly for whatever they have next?

Our Cities and MiniMap, 1000 BC

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM2_BC1000.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM2_BC1000_MiniMap.jpg

Nice turns Furiey. The barbs definitely are raging. I think we should build more vet warriors now for upgrade to swords and build spears only in cities without barracks. We can also call back our units exploring the East. New settlers should get a spear escort, but Berlin does not need 2 spears definding it. Spear plus warrior is enough. I think we should now settle at the flood plains in the West (first) and East. Can you or somebody of you playing an a PC do us and rcp map to identify rcp 8 positions?

I would not trade now, as we don't need the techs. Just check whether 2 civs have a tech the 3rd is lacking. Then by this tech and trade it for 1 or 2 more. And buy all workers available.

PS: And I would change the temple to spear.

Got it.

Wont be able to pay until i get home tonight. RCP positions would be nice for a guide. Im not familiar enough with that placement method to hazard a guess.

Got it.

Wont be able to pay until i get home tonight. RCP positions would be nice for a guide. Im not familiar enough with that placement method to hazard a guess.First choice IMHO would be 4 tiles NW of Leipzig. since it makes also a flood plain tile available to Leipzig and is on a river.

Played last night. Will have report done up in about an hour. Nothing startling to report. We now know that Liz and Joan are both up Masonary, Writing, Lit, and MM with Cathy not having Lit at the minute. Also, there is more land to the SW of France. Paris also built the Pyramids. Report to follow shortly.

Sorry it took so long guys. Im at work and things are a bit chaotic around here today!!!


Pre-Turn Checks:
Changed Temple to Spear. Everything else looks fine. Press Return.

IBT: Barb Warrior attacks Vet Arch. Arch wins, Promoted to Elite.

Turn 1 975 BC
N Warrior E towards Barb camp. Rest Arch west of Leipzig (-2hp). Spear @ Munich S. Warrior W of Munich W. Warrior @ Odessa W. Arch W of Odessa S. E Warrior W. Warrior @ Konigsberg N. 2 Workers mine BR N of Hamburg. E Warrior W.

IBT Cathy asks us to move.

Turn 2 950 BC
Berlin Settler > Warrior. Frankfurt Warrior > Worker (growth and worker both due in 10) Frankfurt Warrior W. Warrior @ Hamburg N. Settler + Spear Escort NW to RCP8 NW of Leipzig. Spear @ Munich S. Warrior W (out of Russia) S Arch S. N Warrior SE to NW of Barb Camp. W Warrior S.

IBT :sleep:

Turn 3 925 BC
N Warrior attacks Barb Camp. Wins -1hp. N Arch W. Worker @ Leipzip Roads second Ivory. 2 Workers road BG @ Heidelburg S Arch S. Warrior SW of Munich W sees Iron NE of England. W Warrior SE onto Mountains. N Warrior N.

IBT :sleep:

Turn 4 900 BC
Berlin Warrior > Settler(Growth in 2, Settler in 5) Leipzig Spear > Warrior. Spear to Berlin for Settler Escort. Armagh Spear > Warrior. Hamburg Granery > Spear. Workers N of Hamburg road BG. Warrior NE of Hamburg NE. Warrior in Armagh S. S Arch S. E Warrior W. N Arch S. N Warrior S. Munich Warrior W. w Warrior S.

IBT French Warrior SW of Konigsberg Iron.

Turn 5 875 BC
Rest N Warrior. N Arch W. Workers @ Heidelburg N to new city(Nuremburg). S Warrior SE. East Warrior W to Frankfurt. Warrior S of Konigsburg NW to Iron. NE Warroir N Warrior E of York NW. W Warrior S. Sees land SW of France.

IBT :sleep:

Turn 6 850 BC
Leipzig Warrior > Warrior. Worker @ Leipzip west to Flood Plain. Numemburg founded NW of Leipzig Set to worker. N Warrior S, sees Barb Camp. N Arch SW. Spear S through Russia. S Arch S. Warrior @ Frankfurt W. Warroir on Iron S. Workers N of Hamburg to Konigsburg's Iron. W Warrior SW. Sees more land SW of France.

IBT Nothing.

Turn 7 825 BC
Armagh Warrior > Warrior. Konigsburg Spear > Warrior. Spear to Hamburg for Settler. Worker Ig flood Plains w of Leipzig. N Warrior attacks Barb. Wins -1hp. N arch S. Warrior NE of York N, sees Coventry. Warrior in Munich West. W Warrior S.

IBT France comletes Pyramids. Starts GL. Liz starts GL.

Turn 8 800 BC
Berlin Settler > Settler. Leipzig Warrior > Warrior. Rest N Warrior. N Arch attacks Barb camp. Wins. Munich warrion W. S Arch S. S Spear SE. Warrior at Coventry W. W Warrior S.

IBT Russian settler pair head north past Warrior W of Munich.

Turn 9 775 BC
Munich Warrior SW. Warrior on Iron S. Warrior SE of Armagh W. N Warrior w. workers begin road to Nuremburg. NW Warrior S. NW Arch W. Warrior @ Coventry W. Worker beginds last part of road to Frankfurt. Due in 6. S Spear S. S Arch SW. W Warrior W.

IBT Barbs appear in N and NW

Turn 10 750 BC
Armagh Warrior > Warrior. Vet Warrior from Leipzig N to Barb Horse. Wins. NW Warrior N (Barb hunting) NE Warrior NW. Warrior @ Coventry W. Warrior W of Munich W. S Arch S. S Spear W. W Warrior S. Warrior W of Armagh W Warrior S of Iron N onto Iron (French & Russian warriors close by). N Warrior N.

End of Turn Summary.
Berlin Settler and Growth in 3. Leipzig, Armagh and Konigsburg all Warriors for Swords. Hamburg growth in 1 Settler in 4. Barb camps N and NW. Discovered more land to SW of France.

Russia - 6 Cities. 280G. Up Mas (WM + 50g) and Writing (WM + 120G).
England - 7 Cities 239G. Up Mas (WM + 50g) and Writing (WM + 110g).
France - 8 Cities 69G. Up Mas (WM + 40g) and Writing (WM + 110g).

We also know that all three are up MM, hence WM's in trades and Liz and Joan are up Lit (Both building GL).

the save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/tao_SG002_BC0750_01.SAV

That is just great news. That France built The Pyramids. They are on our continent, we just have to grab them. :D

And our military is already strong compared to everybody else. :D

Since France is some distance away, I suppose we should go grab horses as one of our next priorities.

And we definitely need more workers. Much more. We should at least triple our workforce really soon.

PS: Consider this as a "got it" in case NeoX doesn't report till tomorrow.. But I will be on a business trip and only play on Thursday evening.

I would like to have a little discussion on which goal we set for us.

We are on a relatively large continent with The Pyramids. This will allow superior growth once we captured them.

IMHO it is undisputed(?) that as a next step we will conquer all of the home continent. The question is whether we intend to "walk over the world" as I just did it in GOTM31 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1860131#post1860131) and go for rapid conquest or domination. In this case, we should go monarchy. Or do we want to use the scientific trait of the Germans and work towards a Modern Age win by either UN od spaceship? Then we should go republic and use panzers to secure what ever resources we need on the other continent.

Please voice your opinions, since in 9 turns the latest we have to choose which government tech (republic, monarchy) we will go for.

Normally i would vote for the UN/Spaceship victory but i want to become more aggressive so i say go for domination and walk over ther world. I have only one domination victory that i can remember, so another at this level would be nice.

I too would vote for the way of the sword over the hammer. While a blitz with panzers would be a pleasure, I don't want to drag the game out to get them.

If the rapid conquest option is a viable one (and it seems it is), then I say go for it, no reason to drag it out any longer than necessary.

NeoXultragoth failed again to report and is expelled from the team.

First do some trading to see our research standing:
France gives wm for wm, 22g
Russia gives wm, 24g for wm
England gives wm, 22g for wm
France gives 1g for wm
We now know our continent and can call back exploring units to fight barbs. There are 3 barb camps in the NW and the barbs will come after our cities.
France gives masonry for 57g; we now see that France lacks math, which Russia and England know.
England gives mathematics for 127g
France gives writing for mathematics, 5g
We now see that Russia, France, and England know philosophy, col, lit, mm. If we learn polytheism first, we should get them all. 9 turns of nail-biting.

Now let us look at the cities:
Berlin builds settler in 2, grows in 3; get mined grass from Heidelburg to do both in 2 (because the pop growth is done first and the 6th citizen will give us 2 shields before being turned into a settler)
Leipzig can work lake to get 1 more food while still building warrior next turn.
Hamburg would better be building workers and the city will not grow to pop 5 before the settler finishes. Therefore switch to worker wasting 5 shields.
Frankfurt is food poor; switch worker to warrior
Stop 1 worker roading iron mountain; we want some more warriors first

Hit return.

730bc Leipzig b warrior s next (mm to work mined ivory again)
Hamburg b worker s next; mm
Knappagh1!! You had the spear/settler pair on a long goto. NEVER EVER DO THIS again for any unit if it is not finished in your own turns!

IBT barb attacks Nuremberg, dies, and promotes defending spear to elite
Russia founds Sewastopol SW of Heidelburg

710bc Berlin b settler s next
Konigsberg b warrior s next
Frankfurt b warrior s next
Heidelburg uses mined gras again (for 2 turns)

690bc Armagh b warrior s next
Heidelburg b spear s warrior
Colognne founded on the coast/river in the NE s warrior
Leipzig works lake for 1 turn to get 1 more food

670bc Leipzig b warrior s next
Munich b spear s warrior
give Berlin mined bg from Heidelburg

IBT England offers to exchange maps; we propose our tm for their wm: o.k.

650bc Hamburg b worker s warrior
Frankfurt w incense is connected
Hannover founded W of Berlin (dist 4) s warrior
buy worker from France for 24g, tm
mm Leipzig to b warrior in 1

IBT barb horse E of Nuremberg

630bc Berlin b settler s next
Leipzig b warrior s next
Armagh b warrior s next
Nuremberg b worker s warrior
disperse bar camp N of Leipzig; get 25g

IBT we connect iron
Russia offers philosophy for 90g; no way; we get wm, 1g for tm; Cathy cautious->polite
barb horse dies attacking elite spear in Nuremberg

610bc Hamburg b warrior s worker
Konigsberg b warrior s spear
Frankfurt b warrior s spear
Heidelburg b warrior s sword
E archer disperses barb camp getting 25g
upgrade 11 warriors to swords

IBT another barb horse dies attacking Nuremberg

590bc Leipzig b warrior s spear

570bc we learn polytheism and have the monopoly on it
upgrade more swords
France gives map making, col, philosophy, 5g for polytheism
England gives literature, 76g for polytheism
Russia gives 148g for polytheism
Leipzig switched to library
research monarchy at 80%, -7gpt, due in 20

550bc Berlin b settler s next
Hamburg b worker s next (needs mm)
Bremen founded on the coast s galley
monarchy at 90%, -10gpt due in 16 (treasury 499g)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM2_tao_550BC.jpg

We are now strong and about ready to attack Russia. The settler should claim the western horses; I would send strong garrison and build walls against the massive barbarian uprisings to come. Berlin needs mm to build a settler every 4 turns! After the warrior, Cologne should also build workers. We need lots. Some more warriors should be upgraded.

Firaxis score 262, Jason score 200. The Save. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/tao_SG002_BC0550_01.SAV)

Demiurge (next)
Furiey
Knappagh1
tao

pre-turn: look around, hit return.

IBT: Barb horse near Nuremburg, barb warrior near S archer

530 bc (turn 1): S archer attacks barb, archer dies!; W warrior starts trek home; send a couple swords toward Munich for Russian attack force; send settler toward horses

IBT: Barb horse attacks Nuremburg, dies

510 bc (turn 2): upgrade a couple warriors; MM Berlin for growth before settler; no trades, tech parity; Monarchy in 13, -11 gpt, 400 g

IBT: barb horse near Bremen

490 bc (turn 3): Hamburg builds worker, set to worker; Cologne build warrior, set to worker; France now up Republic, all others tech parity, no trade; Berlin MM to grass, growth in 1 settler in 2 (6th citizen will give enough shields on forest to produce next turn)

IBT: barb horse attacks Bremen, dies

470 bc (turn 4): Berlin builds settler, set settler; Armagh builds sword, set sword; Munich builds warrior set to warrior (until Munich's hooked up, will build warriors for upgrade in Armagh); Heidelberg builds spear, set library; Liz establishes embassy in our capital; Hamburg MM off forest to grass; upgrade two warriors (will hold off upgrading any more until Monarchy; Monarchy in 11, -17 gpt, 297 g; MM Leipzig to lake for growth, still get library in 1

IBT: France offers to trade WM, trade our WM for WM + 1 g

450 bc (turn 5): Leipzig build library, set to spear, MM worker back to ivory; Hanover builds warrior, set to warrior (till it's hooked up)

IBT: Barb warrior near N of Bremen

430 bc (turn 6): Hamburg builds worker, set worker; Konigsberg builds spear, set library to take advantage of chop; Nuremberg builds warrior, set worker; MM Berlin newest citizen to grass; England and France up construction and republic, Russia lacking construction; no trade possible

IBT: Barb horse near Nuremberg

430 bc (turn 7): Frankfurt builds spear, set library; build Stuttgart NE of Berlin, set to warrior; build Bonn near horses, set to warrior; trade WM around for 3 g

IBT: barb horse attacks Nuremberg, dies; barb warrior attacks Bremen, dies

410 bc (turn 8): Berlin produces settler, set settler; MM Leipzig to lake (spear in 1), Stuttgart off lake

370 bc (turn 9): Leipzig produces spear, set spear, MM Leipzig to ivory, give lake back to Stuttgart; Hamburg produces worker, set worker

IBT: barb horse near Bonn

350 bc (turn 10): Hanover produces warrior, set library; MM Berlin to grass; upgrade a couple warriors

post-turn: settler/spear NE on way to cow and wheat; We now have a good stack in Munich, few warriors in Armagh, waiting for upgrade (Note: there is one elite warrior in Armagh on his way to Munich), more warriors on the way; Monarchy in 3, -14 gpt; England and France still up republic, construction. Russia up Republic.

Firaxis score: 307; We're now #2, behind France. The save. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/tao_SG002_BC0350_01.SAV)

Furiey (next)
Knappagh1
tao
Demiurge

We are making further progress. Some issues: It might be a good idea to build a library in Hamburg. Meanwhile it will grow and build workers faster afterwards.
Switch Armagh to library also.
Upgrade 3 more vet warriors to swords.
We now should attack Russia.
Very nice: France (Pyramids in Paris) has neither iron nor horses. We will attack them after Russia.
Russia is scientific and will get a free tech upon entering Middle Ages. We should take advantage of it.
I would send barb raiding parties to the camps west and northeast of Bonn to prevent massive uprisings.
We should trade once the AIs know both construction and currency.
This will bring us in the Middle Ages and give a free tech.
We should go for engineering, (AIs more likely to go Feudalism), invention, gunpowder, etc.
We should bring irrigation to Bremen and Hannover.
But most urgently we have to connect the horses and start building lots of cheap horsemen.
Should we spend 40g to establish an embassy w Russia and see the defense of Moscow?
After mining near Munich, we should build the (attack) road towards Russia.

This will bring us in the Middle Ages and give a free tech.

...and qualify us for the first spoiler thread!

Some more thoughts on the game: We are scientific and militaristic. Our Golden Age would be triggered by one Wonder of each trait.
The best time for our Golden Age would be when we own our continent.
Militaristic Wonders are Leonardo's and Sun Tzu's. We definitely want Leonardo's for cheap upgrades.
Scientific Wonders are Great Library and Newton's. We don't want the Great Library. Never ever. Don't even think about wasting a Leader building it.
We need lots of galleys: first for suicide runs, then for transports to the other continent. Coastal cities should concentrate on them.
We don't need no temples. They only cost money and we have 3 luxuries already and furs to come. No temples!
We only want markets in cities striving for pop 12.
We want our cities to grow fast.
We want Paris and The Pyramids ASAP.

Got it - I'll try and get going before the Demogame 4 Victory Chat tonight, if not tomorrow morning - looks like we've made considerable progress!

Picking this up I immediately notice something - Monarchy due in 3! We all seem to support the Monarchy route, so do we revolt immediately? or after dealing with Russia?

Picking this up I immediately notice something - Monarchy due in 3! We all seem to support the Monarchy route, so do we revolt immediately? or after dealing with Russia?Immediately. We are strong enough to war and revolt. :D If bad comes to worse, we can make peace after capturing some Russian cities.

Get ready for a revolution then! Can we revolt twice if necessary under GOTM rules?

Yes, we can change governments again, if needed. Although I'm not sure if we'll need to.

erm no - I meant in the same move - from let the revolt begin and big picture if the first gives a long anarchy time

Yes, that method is used regularly in the GOTM competition.

Apologies for taking so long - real life intruded

350 BC(Turn 0): Armagh and Hamburg switched to Libraries, look around, press button.

IBT: Barbarian Horse dies attacking Swordsman in Bonn, promoting it to Elite. Borders around Kiev expand – our Warrior is now in Russian Territory

330 BC(Turn 1): 2nd Worker starts roading to Cologne; 3 Warriors head for Armagh; Elite Warrior and Swordsman in Armagh head for Munich; Workers by Hannover go NE to bring irrigation; Spearman on Bonn Workers to Bonn, Spearman South of Bonn Workers to Workers; 2 Swordsman in Bonn head for West barb camp, Sword and Archer for East; upgrade a Warrior in Armagh; Warrior in Russia peeps at Kiev – Regular Spearman; research dropped to 80%, Monarch in 2, -8gpt.

IBT: :sleep:

310 BC(Turn 2):. Berlin: Settler>Settler; Heidelberg: Library>Sword; uprgraded Sword in Armagh to Munich; Workers to Irrigate to Hannover, Irrigate; Konisburg Workers, complete clearing Jungle and Mine; Berlin Settler heads N; upgraded Warrior in Armagh; Munich Workers start roading; Cologne Wrokers N; Warrior in Russia E to be out of their territory so we can declare war; can’t drop research from 80%

IBT: Russia demands we leave, we comply

290 BC(Turn 3):. We discover Monarch and go to What’s the Big Picture and start the revolt – 7 turns, We let the revolt begin and get 5 turns instead. Won’t let me find out how much an Embassy with Russia will cost – maybe we don’t have enough now? Russia has a Worker for Sale – 27gold, We are up Monarch on Russia and England, France and England have Construction, none have Currency; Workers (and Spearman) by Bonn go to horses; Leipzig gets a labourer turned into a Scientist to give Currency in 40

IBT: :sleep:

270 BC(Turn 4):. Leipzig starves?? Shouldn’t have done, it now has +2 food?, scientist put in Berlin which is still growing quickly; grrr – realised I forgot to buy the Worker and it’s no longer available – oh well, upgrade another Warrior instead; West barb camp taken, 25 gold; Workers start roading horses; 4 turns of Anarchy remaining.

IBT: :sleep:

250 BC(Turn 5):. Found Salzburg; Konisburg Workers start clearing jungle N of Konisburg; Move stack of Swords (+Elite Warrior), 1 S of Munich; Munich Workers + 3 Swords SW to continue roading to Russia; E barb camp taken, 25 gold; 3 turns of Anarchy remaining, Score 330, 1 point behind France.

IBT: Barb horse appears from N stops NW of Bonn; English are building the Great Wall; English have completed the Great Library in London;

230 BC(Turn 6):. Barb hunters head to N camp; Munich Workers road; declare War on Russia; Main stack moves towards Moscow; small stack to Kiev; 2 turns of Anarchy remaining

IBT: Barb horse dies attacking Bonn; Russians start Great Wall; barb Warrior appears from E and stops SSE of Frankfurt; .Russia completes Great Wall; French start The Hanging Gardens.; French complete Hanging Gardens

210 BC(Turn 7):. We complete the road to the horses!; kill barb near Frankfurt, move Swords closer to Moscow; 1 turn of Anarchy remaining, Score 340, equal to France.

IBT: Barb horse appears on mountain to N of Barb hunters; We are now a Monarchy!

190 BC(Turn 8):. Heidelburg and Bonn changed to Horseman; Attack Moscow; lose 1st Sword, leaving Spear 2/3, same second sword against new 3/3 spear – only 2 Spears! Lose 3rd sword, Spear now 2/4, kill 2nd 2/3 spear promoting Sword to Elite; kill 2/4 spear, capturing Moscow, 2 Workers and the Great Wall (5 resisters – now starving); Found Dortmund; 1 Sword single handedly captures Kiev and 2 workers (no resisters)

IBT: barb horse attacks our barb hunters and dies

170 BC(Turn 9):. we quell 2 resisters in Moscow; Leipzig: Spearman>Spearman; Armagh: Library>Spear; Nuremburg: Worker>Spear; Cologne: Worker>Worker; France now has Currency and Construction, England does not have Currency; Move Swords towards St Petersburg

IBT: English Warriors seen heading North - towards N barb camp?

150 BC(Turn 10):. We quell a resister in Moscow and it starves; We kill a spear in Odessa; Move closer to St Petersburg. Russian Archer is visible on hill 2 E of St Petersburg.


Post-turn: Russia will speak to us, they will so far give us Sevastopol and Vladivostok for peace.

We are down Republic and Construction to Everyone, Currency to France, Currency due in 33
Scores: France – 355, England – 294, Germany – 358, Russia – 287
Treasury: 29gold + 31gpt

The Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/tao_SG002_BC0150_01.SAV)

Post Turn:
We have founded 2 cities and have another Settler produced next turn. There is still a barb camp to the N and another E? of Frankfurt. We can now build Horsemen.

As of 150 BC - England and Russia have thoughtfully built some cities for us on ring 13.

Yes. Making war on Russia was the thing to do. Let us pummel them a little more and then get 2-3(?) cities and everything else they have for peace. I think we should starve Moskow and St. Petersburg to avoid the risk of the cities flipping to the culture-strong French.

Some more random thoughts:

Switchs all/most spear to horses.
Create scientist in Moskow and set science to 0%.
Do not attack size 1 towns w/o culture (e.g. Sewastopol) to avoid auto-razing.
Switch Dortmund to warrior.
I would have irrigated the horses at Bonn before moving in the forest. Growth is power.
I would have cut the forest near Hamburg, not the jungle.
We have to cut forest near Frankfurt for growth.
We need still more workers.
Soon we should build a library in Nuremberg to get 1 more flood plain and the wheat.
Hannover should work irrigated plains instead of gras to get 1 more shield.
Hamburg should build workers after library.
Take better care of Berlin as a settler factory.
Kiev should work flood plain.
Armagh is in danger of disease. Next turn, Heidelburg's culture will expand and we should work hill instead of jungle.

Got it. Will play tonight when i get home.

tao...congrats on your great conquest victory in GOTM 31. That's an impressive date!

Since Knappagh1 neither played within 72 hours after his "got it" nor asked for an extension, he is skipped.

Initial things:
We will not research currency, but buy it: 0% research gives +6gpt. Soon we will have barb uprisings and have to prepare our border towns. Give Liz wm+1g fpr wm, get wm from Joan for tm. 2 barb camps W and N of Bonn and 1 E of Frankfurt will spill 24(?) horsemen each. Send spear and sword to Frankfurt, vet warrior from Bremen to Leipzig for upgrade.

Some mm:
Berlin works gold mountain getting +3gpt; 2 taxmen in Moscow give 2gpt
Kiev set to work flood plain.
Armagh switched to horse.
Frankfurt set to barracks.
Munich set to library.
Nuremberg set to library.
Hannover to work irrigated pains instead of grass.
Stuttgart set to library.
Bonn set to walls (against barb uprings) and hurried for 12g.
Dortmund set to galley.
Hit return.

IBT barb horse attacking sword dies N.

130bc (1) Berlin b settler s next. Bonn b walls s spear. Send settler to claim coast N of Stuttgart.
Attack St.P.: 3 swords die and we kill 2 spears, but 1 survives red-lined. Upgrade warrior in Leipzig. 5 taxmen in Moscow. Send workers to irrigate Munich. Send spear to Bonn; road forest near Bonn. Call back elite archer.

IBT Moscow resistance ends.

110bc (2) Frankfurt b barracks s spear. We hear of massive barb uprisings near Frankfurt (and I suppose near Bonn). Send spear from Leipzig to Salzburg. Move N sword on mountain: he is doomed but shall give a good fight; call 2nd back to Bonn. Attack again and 1st sword captures St.P. Cathy is not yet willing to give Vladivostok plus Sevastopol. She will not at all give Odessa; some future resource? Rubber?
Optimize tiles between Berlin, Leipzig, Stuttgart. Starve Moscow w taxmen. Some more mm.

IBT barb horse near

90bc (3) Leipzig b spear s horse.
Fighting near St.P: sword dies attacking archer; 2nd kills archer becomes vet. Sword kills 2nd archer promotes to elite.
England gives currency for ROP, 91g, 3gpt. -> polite.
Peace w Russia getting Vladivostok, Sevastopol, 11g, wm.
Construction, worker from Russia for currency, monarchy.
Enter Middle Ages: Free tech is monotheism; same for Russia.
Since Liz has GLib, she will get monotheism next turn, thus we trade it now:
England gives 130g, wm for monotheism.
Starve Moscow, Vladivostok w taxmen; send 2 swords to Vladivostok.
MM Berlin, Leipzig.
Research engineering due in 19 turns at 50%, +3gpt.
We are #1 w 377; F 370, E 301, R 291. :D

IBT: 18 barb horses W of Bonn; 24 move toward N swords on mountain, 25 barb horses near Frankfurt

70bc (4) Hamburg b library s market. Hurry spear in Frankfurt

IBT: sword on mountain kills 4 horses and dies. Bonn defeats all barbs w/o loss; Frankfurt will be attacked next turn.

50bc (5) Berlin b settler s next. Konigsberg b library s sword. Frankfurt b spear s archer. Heidelburg b horse s next. Brandenburg founded on the coast s galley.

IBT barb destroys Frankfurt mine, 23 die giving lots of promotions but no losses. 17 barb horses next to Bonn.

30bc (6) Munich b library s barracks. Cologne b worker s next.

IBT lots of barbs die w/o us suffering losses except pillaged horses.

10bc (7) Armagh b horse s worker. Bremen b galley s next

IBT barbs die on Bonn walls.

10ad (8) Leipzig b horse s market. Hannover b library s barracks. Salzburg b warrior s settler.
French start Sun Tzu's in Lyons. France and England know Feudalism.

IBT barb horse dies attacking Bonn.

30ad (9) Berlin b settler s library.
Cathy gives wm, 5g for wm, Liz gives wm, 2g for tm, Joan wm for tm.

50ad (10) move troops south and settler W.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM2_tao_50AD.jpg

My thoughts on how to continue:
In the W the settler will found town 2 tiles W of current position NW of the flood plain. The sword and horse will disperse the barb camp and then be the garrison.

We should attack France soon to get The Pyramids. I move lots of troops south already. France has no iron and thus our elite spears are good defenders. We hope for a Great Leader to build the Forbidden Palace.

The galley is moving towards the E end of our continent to start a suicide run. More will follow until we make contact.

I queued up some units. I did not think to have workers ready to connect us to the French railroad system. I suppose we should build or hurry some down South unless we can make slaves.

If/when/once we contact the other civs, we still want to slow down the tech rate. Trade them as little techs as possible. Instigate wars: e.g. if civ A is missing a tech civ B already has, declare war on B and give A the tech to ally with us. This slows the Ais down.

I always (unless we run into happiness problems or hit pop limits 6/12) prefer growth over production, i.e. irrigation over mines.

We soon have to reduce science because we can't afford ongoing at the current rate. Some markets will help and also allow more growth w/o lux setting.

We still need more workers to get our core cities up in size. Buy the worker Liz has for sale.

Firaxis score 433, Jason score 331.

The save. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/tao_SG002_AD0050_01.SAV)

Demiurge (next)
Furiey
Knappagh1
tao

tao...congrats on your great conquest victory in GOTM 31. That's an impressive date!Thank you. It was the 1st conquest strategy I did in gotm and I want to improve it (e.g. with this game). Let's conquer the weaklings! :D

Got the save. Will play tomorrow.

Also thanks for posting the summary so fast in the spoiler. We now qualify.

Also thanks for posting the summary so fast in the spoiler. We now qualify.Please feel free to add anything you consider important and I missed mentioning.

I got the time to play last night afterall so here goes...

pre-turn: look the game over and buy worker from Liz for 23g + WM, MM Vladivostok to irrigated wheat, Cologne to roaded forest

Set some goals — gather troops for invasion of France and build connector road; maybe start war with France, we'll see how the troop gathering goes; make contact with other continent (if possible); build lots of horses and workers; disperse barb camps N and S

IBT: Barb horse dies attacking Frankfurt; barb horse approaches swords to NW

70 ad (turn 1): Heidelberg produces spear, set sword (will change to horse once connected; Cologne builds worker, set worker; treasury running low, set sci slider to 40 for +7, engineering in 12; shuffle troops around and move more toward France being careful to consider MP for happiness to avoid raising lux slider; MM Konigsberg to newly uncovered BG, Vladivostok to floodplains

90 ad (turn 2): Horses rehooked, change several cities to horses from swords, Vladivostok to worker; Stuttgart builds library, set barracks; horse NW kills one barb horse in camp

IBT: english and french warriors are moving N near Bonn

110 ad (turn 3): Berlin builds library, set settler; Armagh builds sword, set horse; Sevastburg builds warrior, set warrior; Hanover builds barracks, set horse; Vladisvostok builds worker, set worker; horse disperses barb camp NW; build New Berlin near NW floodplains; galley sees barb galley near suicide point; MM Nuremberg for growth without compromising library build

130 ad (turn 4): Hamburg builds market, set worker; Nuremberg builds library, set worker, MM to coincide production with growth; MM Vladivostok for growth; galley reaches suicide point, holds to have full turn

140 ad (turn 5): Hamburg builds worker, set worker, MM to coincide worker and growth; Frankfurt produces horse, set same; send suicide galley out, see borders! Maybe Japan; two french settler pairs on the prowl (one near Sevastpol, one near St. Pete, if only I was ready for war...a few more turns maybe I can still get them

IBT: Barb horse near Frankfurt

160 ad (turn 6): Berlin produces settler, set settler, MM for growth in 4 settler in 4, give wheat to Leipzig; Hamburg builds worker, set worker, MM for growth in 2 worker in 2, Heidelberg works newly mined hill and gives one tile to Hamburg; Cologne builds worker, set worker; build New Leipzig, set galley; galley survives and contact Japanese! They have 17 cities, contact with the Chinese and Indians, they are down poly and currency, up Republic, 0g, trade WM for TM + contact with Chinese; contact Chinese, they have 10 cities, contact with the Indians, lacking currency and Monarchy, up Republic, 63g, trade WM for contact + 63g + 3gpt + TM; contact India, they have 12 cities, down poly and currency, up Republic, 5g, trade WM for WM + 5g; Note: our army is strong compared to all of them; sell WM around for all the gold in the world; establish embassy in India (they're centrally located so they'll be our war proxy on the second continent); declare war against Japan, sign military alliance with India against Japan for polytheism; rush settler in Salzburg, upgrade warrior

India's city screen:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Delhi.jpg

180 ad (turn 7): Stuttgart builds barracks, set horse; Heidelberg builds spear, set horse; Salzburg produces settler, set settler; French are building Sistine; declare war on the French, kill both settler pairs, and stray warriors, position troops

IBT: The traitorous scum in St. Pete flipped and declared allegiance to the French! Good thing our troops had already moved through. We only lost one sword.

210 ad (turn 8): Kiev builds spear, set worker; Armagh builds horse, set horse; Hamburg builds worker, set worker, MM for growth/production in 2; Konigsberg builds horse, set horse; Nuremburg builds worker, set worker; move stack toward Orleans, reinforcements from the core will retake St. Pete next turn; also sending a small stack of 5 swords, 1 each of horse, spear and archer toward Tours

230 ad (turn 9): Moscow builds spear, set worker, MM for growth; Bremen builds galley, set aqueduct; retake St. Pete losing one sword, horse promoted to elite; attack Orleans, only two spears! We suffer no loses; Orleans size 6, will starve it and maybe rush a settler when resistance is over, set to settler; sword disperses barb camp to N, MM wheat back to Berlin

250 ad (turn 10); Berlin builds settler, set settler; Orleans rioting, starve it; Leipzig produces market, set horse; Hamburg builds worker, set worker, MM for growth/production; Munich builds horse, set aqueduct (should have done this sooner)

Our new WM:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Wmap.jpg

post-turn:
1. There are two settler pairs out. One N and one W on top of the cattle. I was planning to settle SW of the W settler's current location.

2. There's a group of workers near Berlin. They were heading to Hannover and beyond, but use them as you will. Also a group in St. Pete moving SW to connect newly conquered French territory

3. Several elite victories but no GLs yet. There should be one shortly. When we get it, I'm eyeballing Canterbury for FP, but that's open for discussion.

4. The resistance in Orleans is over but they're currently rioting. There are a few troops healing in both St. Pete and Orleans. We've had one flip, so use as few defenders in conquered cities as you feel comfortable with. I would consider rushing a settler in Orleans to knock the pop down further when rioting is over.

5. The French have put up very little resistance so far in the way of offensive troops. A couple horses but that's it. We'll be dancing in Paris in no time.

6. On the eastern continent we are at war with the Japanese and I signed an MA with India. With any luck China will be drawn in as well.

7. There's a stray horse off the road near Armagh. My finger slipped on the trackpad.

8. Scores: Japan 566, Germany 518, India 464, France 461, China 453, England 340, Russia 293

The save. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/tao_SG002_AD0250_01.SAV)

Furiey (next)
Knappagh1
tao
Demiurge

Congartulations on discovering the other continent. :goodjob:
And on starting a war right away. :D

Some thoughts:
IMHO we only need one harbor to trade. Vet ships are not needed for troop transports. Do we need the harbor now? Trading is a long time away. I would build more galleys first. After astronomy, we can sail to the other continent safely in the West. But our galleys have a long way to get there.

Shouldn't we stop building settlers in Berlin and go market - Great Wonder (Leonardo's)? And/or should we make Konigsberg a Wonder building city?

Shouldn't we move all but 1 sword out of Orleans in case it flips again?

Shouldn't we establish an embassy w China and trade them monarchy (they know republic) for an alliance vs. Japan?

We can get engineering in 2 at -17g. Affordable. Then we can trade it to England for feudalism and alliance vs. France, hopefully.

We are on our way. :thumbsup:

IMHO we only need one harbor to trade. Vet ships are not needed for troop transports. Do we need the harbor now?

Shouldn't we stop building settlers in Berlin and go market - Great Wonder (Leonardo's)?

Shouldn't we move all but 1 sword out of Orleans in case it flips again?

Shouldn't we establish an embassy w China and trade them monarchy (they know republic) for an alliance vs. Japan?

We can get engineering in 2 at -17g. Affordable. Then we can trade it to England for feudalism and alliance vs. France, hopefully.

Here are my thoughts;

The harbors were mainly being built because those are food poor cities

I like your thinking on Berlin. I was so focused on my turns I temporarily lost sight of the long term.

Orleans never flipped...up to this point. Though your right the danger is there. I fortified those troops to get them healed faster before joining the stack moving toward Paris. That leads into your last point. I purposely built the treasury to have enough gold to rush a settler in Orleans. Reduce pop, less chance of flip.

The harbors were mainly being built because those are food poor citiesBetween Salzburg and Dortmund, we should cut the forest and irrigate (timed to not waste the 10 shields each).

Brandenburg will get access to another gras (to be irrigated) in 17 turns when Hamburg's culture expands. That is enough for pop 6.

Aww he says and slaps his forehead.

Some more of my thoughts for comments by the team members:

We do NOT want to research chivalry, but trade for feudalism and then go invention - gunpowder - chemistry - metallurgy - military tradition.

We definitely want Leonardo's for cheap upgrades of lots of horses to cavalry.

We want to build our Forbidden Palace with the 1st Great Leader we get in the West (Paris?) to build galleys on the western coast.

With the Hanging Garden in Paris, the furs and 3 mp, we can grow up to size 12 without lux if we build markets in the core cities.

We want our core cities (1st ring) to grow to size 12 as fast as possible.

We will build no temples.

We will not build libraries beyond the 2nd ring.

The 2nd ring might need some courthouses.

We want to keep the AI tech pace as slow as possible; thus no trades except getting feudalism.

Got it, thought I might get a chance to play tonight, but it'll be tomorrow now.

Things have certainly changed: lucky to get that galley across first go, I usually lose several! Starting the war on the other continent - good going - this is definitely a weak spot in my game, I tend to be slow in declaring unless pushed by the AI or in urgent need of a resource - often to the point of over preparing.

My thoughts on tao's thoughts:

We are taking the military path and need to stay focussed on that - hence I agree, straight for MT and Leonardo's, no diversions for Chivalry on the way. Again our infrastructure needs to be sufficient to support our military - enough happiness without having to spend money on supporting buildings (temples) or the slider - better take Paris quickly then :D

One thing I have noticed - it doesn't look like either France or England have connected up their Iron yet - at least right clicking and getting the terrain info for those tiles gives a gold value for an unroaded tile. Might be why we've seen no sword counterattacks?

One thing I have noticed - it doesn't look like either France or England have connected up their Iron yet - at least right clicking and getting the terrain info for those tiles gives a gold value for an unroaded tile. Might be why we've seen no sword counterattacks?

Good thinking. I wouldn't have thought to do that.

After revisting the game I tend to agree with tao's comments as well in regard to turning up the research on science and forget about popping the settler. Our goals for research are...as fast as possible toward military tradition. If Orleans flips it's easy enough to retake it.


We will not build libraries beyond the 2nd ring.
I guess this translates to a tight build pattern for anything outside the second ring. Your other comments seem on the mark as usual.

I wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts on why you would choose Paris as the FP location over other spots. When building the FP outside the core I probably use my gut more than relying on proven knowledge and facts as to placement. If this were my own game, without the benefit of discussion, I would have chosen Cambridge. Although Paris did cross my mind. Cambridge has a greater number of productive cities around it and seems to be more centrally located in that region.

I guess this (no libraries beyond 2nd ring) translates to a tight build pattern for anything outside the second ring.My comment was more motivated by the fact that in monarchy corruption is worse than in republic, and commerce (science) loss is not reduced by wltkd. And by the fact that we will stop researching after mt. We may build some more libraries to expand our territory. And we should not build too many cities because that increases corruption again.
I wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts on why you would choose Paris as the FP location over other spots. When building the FP outside the core I probably use my gut more than relying on proven knowledge and facts as to placement. If this were my own game, without the benefit of discussion, I would have chosen Cambridge. Although Paris did cross my mind. Cambridge has a greater number of productive cities around it and seems to be more centrally located in that region.Paris was a candidate, not the suggested place for the FP. Do you mean Canterbury instead of Cambridge? IMHO just as good as Paris.

Yes I meant Canterbury. Sorry for the confusion.

Hey guys. Sorry for not posting lately or letting you know what happened. My computer died on me over the weekend so i have had no internet access until this morning. I did get the computer going again yesterday but still cant get the modem working so i will be able to play my next turn, but will have to post whenever i get to work for the time being.

By the way, some very nice looking turns there. I havent had time to read them yet, but it looks like were going along nicely.

Welcome back in the online ommunity. ;) Having DSL at home and T3 at work, I don't want to remember my modem or ISDN times. :D

Yes, we make good progress. IMHO we have to build markets in our core cities, because otherwise the unit cost will kill us (slow us down). And we need a Great Leader for the Forbidden Palace.

I also started thinking: IF we get a 2nd Great Leader: what to do? Great Lighthouse to ensure our communication monopoly and break all wonder builds on the other continent? Sun Tzu's for free barracks hoping we can manually build Leonardo's? Or Leonardo's and hope to build Sun Tzu's?

I think for the 2nd GL (if we get two) we should go for Sun Tzu. The free barracks will save us gold (help with the unit cost) and should prevent us from loosing Leo's in a cascade.

I think for the 2nd GL (if we get two) we should go for Sun Tzu. The free barracks will save us gold (help with the unit cost) and should prevent us from loosing Leo's in a cascade.Yes, it will save us money. But if Sun Tzu's is build on our continent, we can capture it. Whereas Great Lighthouse on the other continent is bad bad. And we can build both Sun Tzu's and Leonardo's faster than anybody on the other continent, if we start asap (after building markets). We need the head start, because both Japan and China will trigger their Golden Age once they learn chivalry (Samurai, Rider).

Good to have you back Knappagh1. As tao's sig so aptly states....

I think I would go for the Great Lighthouse and start pre-building for Leonardo's in Konigsberg(?) after a market. Barracks are cheap being a militaristic civ and we definately want Leonardo's for mass upgrades. The great lighthouse will help keep the tech pace slow and allow us to mow through the ai when we reach the second continent.

Should we try to capture London before completing Leonardo's? It would give us the Great Library and trigger our GA once Leonardo's is completed. This might be an opportune time to start one. We'll be cranking out cheap horses for upgrade, padding our coffers with the extra gold and speed up our push toward military tradition.

It must be contagious - had PC problems and kept having to restart the PC, seems to working ok now - I'll finish off tomorrow.

Should we try to capture London before completing Leonardo's? It would give us the Great Library and trigger our GA once Leonardo's is completed. This might be an opportune time to start one. We'll be cranking out cheap horses for upgrade, padding our coffers with the extra gold and speed up our push toward military tradition.Yes. I definitely agree. And I also want us to grow as much as possible before the GA, because food is not increased, only shields and commerce. Let's go pop 12 w markets!

PS: I looked at the game again and strongly believe we should building markets and then Leonardo's and Sun Tzu's right now(!) in Konigsberg and Berlin (cut 2-3 forest for 1 shields each). And aggressively push these 2 cities to pop 12 and then to optimum production. Also by joining workers. If you go for wonders, you really go for wonders!

PPS: And switch some horses to swords. We need the greater attack power against pop 6+ cities. We can build cheap horses later, if necessary even by unhooking the iron. (Thus do NOT road the 2nd iron; mine yes to push production in Nuremberg, but not road.)

Agreed. Good points all. This is an extremely critical point of our game from a timing perspective and we have no guarantees on when a GL will appear, let alone two. This should be an interesting round of turns!

Sorry to keep you in suspense for so long - I've solved the PC troubles, but have had to restart the PC many times during this game, luckily I was able to save before the PC stopped each time so didn't have to repeat anything.

250 AD(Turn 0): Flipcalc on Odessa: in current state with 4 defenders: 5% (40% in 10 turns), 1 defender: 5.6% (44% in 10 turns) – therefore send the 2 healed Swords on with the stack – the remaining troops (2) should quell the remaining resistor and stop the rioting dropping the flip probability by half next turn. Berlin switched to Market, (in 13, grow in 4, but will be 3 with MM); Engineering in 2 at –16gpt; Check coffers – we can afford the Embassy and keep up the research, better to have China in on the war on the side we choose, build Embassy (62gold), form alliance against Japan for Monarchy also getting 45gold, 6gpt (all they’ll give) and Republic. We now have 92 gold, -10gpt, Engineering in 2. Set St Petersburg back to starve and finally press the button.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/taoSGOTM2_AD250_ChinaEmbassy.jpg

IBT: Barb horsemen approach Frankfurt, French Warrior spotted several E of Hannover

260 AD(Turn 1): Cologne: Worker>Worker; Hannover: Horseman>Swordsman; Bonn: Spearman>Spearman; Orleans starves; And now starts the first of many PC problems causing the first reboot.
Attack forces move closer to Paris and Tours; W Settler/Spear SW; Galley explores ice island and spots grassland as well; N Settler/Spear N, Workers start cutting forest near Berlin to speed Market; 1 now healed Sword leaves Orleans. Research set to 40%, Engineering in 1, 83 gold, +8gpt.

IBT: Barb Horse attacks Frankfurt, redlining Spear, but dies, another moves in; French Warrior goes S.

270 AD (Turn 2): We research Engineering!; Orleans starves; Hamburg: Worker>Worker; Frankfurt: Horseman>Sword; Capture Tours defeating 2 Spears with 2 Swords, promoting 1 to Elite; attack force closes on Paris; get 25 gold from Barb camp W of Bonn; trade Engineering to England for Feudalism and Alliance against the French. Konigsburg switched from Horseman to Market; research set to Invention in 25 turns, +13gpt (next notch up is –11gpt)

IBT: French Horse attacks Elite Spear in Paris Attack force and retreats; Barb horse dies attacking Frankfurt.

280 AD (Turn 3): Orleans starves; Armagh: Horseman>Sword; Nuremburg: Worker>Worker; Sevastopol: Warrior>Warrior; Vladivostok: Worker>Worker; New Berlin: Warrior>Warrior; Elite Warrior defeats redlined French Horse, Elite Sword attacks other, it retreats; New Konigsburg founded on northern spices; Horse kills French Archer by Canterbury

IBT: New Russian Horse dies attacking Spear near Paris, Spear Redlined; Redlined French Horse attacks Horse near Canterbury and dies promoting our Horse to Elite; Leipzig: Horse>Sword; Hamburg: Worker>Worker;

290 AD (Turn 4): Resistance in Orleans ends; 1 resister quelled in Tours; Attack Paris with stack defeating 4 Spears, at least 2 Spears remain though; Move in on Canterbury

IBT: English and Russian Warriors in N start moving S; Barb galleys move, but nothing else

300 AD (Turn 5): Heidelburg: Horse>Sword; Stuttgart: Horse>Sword; We capture Paris! And starve it (8 resistors); upped research to 50%, Invention in 13, -6gpt; Horses take out French Horsemen near Canterbury, rest of attack force moves closer; Galley can now see 3 goodie huts on the island. Scores: Japan 595, Germany 565, India 489, France 486, China 470, England 353, Russia 296

IBT: Lose Horseman to French Archer from Canterbury; We quell a resistor in Paris.

310 AD (Turn 6): Hamburg: Worker>Worker; Cologne: Worker>Worker; Felled forest near Berlin – Market in 5; killed French Archer by Canterbury, moved stack in. Notice the English have razed the French town in the middle of their territory. French and English still haven’t connected their iron.

IBT: More Forest felled in Berlin: Market now in 3; asked to move our galley by Mao, we do so. French archer spotted heading for Canterbury, resistance in Tours ends, quell 3 resistors in Paris.

320 AD (Turn 7): moved Canterbury stack so doesn’t have to attack over a river, Horseman retreated when trying to kill French Archer by Canterbury; kill Barb Galley to N

IBT: Barb galley sinks attacking our Galley in N, French Archer kills our redlined Horse by Canterbury

330 AD (Turn 8): Leipzig: Sword>Sword; Kiev: worker>worker; Hamburg: Worker>worker; Nuremburg: Worker>Worker; Hannover: Sword>Sword; Dortmund: Galley>Galley; Sink Barb Galley; d; Capture Canterbury; our Furs our now connected!

IBT: French Horseman kills our Elite Spear in Paris; English Archer kills French Warrior S of Cow city; Barb galley sinks attacking N Galley;

340 AD (Turn 9): Berlin: Market>Sun Tzu; resistance ends in Paris; Moscow: Worker>worker; Armagh: sword>Sword; Brandenburg: Galley>galley; founded New Frankfurt; Berlin given game to grow; stack moves to Rouen.

IBT: French Horse is redlined attacking Elite spear in Paris.

350 AD (Turn 10): Konisburg: Market>Palace (Prebuild); resistance ends in Canterbury; added couple of workers to Berlin, now size 9; Capture Rouen and get a GREAT LEADER! :D Looking at the rings, Canterbury gives better placement than Paris for the surrounding cities – move Barbarossa to Canterbury. Canterbury set to Forbidden Palace; Horsemen pick of French Horsemen near Paris and Orleans; added Worker to Konisburg; N Galley discovers another island to the NW.

Closing Scores: Japan 624, Germany 617, India 512, France 502, China 488, England 367, Russia 300
Treasury: 117gold + 13gpt, Invention due in 7

The Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm2/tao_SG002_AD0350_01.SAV)

Post-turn:

1. Warrior by Berlin was to go to Berlin to make 3 MP so more Workers could be added.
2. More Workers are converging on Berlin and Konisburg to improve them to Wonder building state.
3. Barbarossa is in Canterbury ready to rush the Forbidden Palace.
4. There’s a Russian Settler/Spear SSE of Vladivostok.
5. I haven’t move any healed units out of Canterbury – I’d be embarrassing for it to flip while Barbarossa is there ready to rush the FP!
6. We have 12 turns of our England alliance left to run, but out of interest, France will give Besancon, Dijon and Cherbourg for peace. They will not give Theology.
7. Barb Horsemen are dieing at Frankfurt every turn
8. I think I’ve stopped them all, but there may still be some Swords on their way to St Petersburg – sorry I lost track of the number of turns.

Yes! You did it! Creating Barbarossa will give us the much needed great push forward. He should hurry the Forbidden Palace now.
And conquering Paris with The Pyramids will greatly increase our growth and the Hanging Gardens give +1 happiness in all out cities. :D Still I see a tremendeous flip risk and next turn would move all but 2 units out of Paris to re-capture it if it flips.
And forming the new alliances also was very good and slows the AIs down. That is the nice thing about us being monarchy: no war weariness at all.

Now let me look at the nitty gritty details. ;)
You starve Paris and Canterbury and that is the correct thing to do. We have to get them down to pop 1 (mm each turn) before we grow them again to fight flip risk. But we should starve them with taxmen instead of clowns giving +10g.
Now we cant set 70% research getting invention in 6. (Will improve even more with FP.)
I would move the 2 swords out of Orleans to recapture it, if it flips; IMHO better than a stronger garrison.
Berlin: join 1 worker, mine gold mountain + plain mountain w 3 workers each: we will work them once we are size 12; only road, don't cut forest on W tile.
Moscow needs a hill mine: with the FP, production capability will grow.
Orleans: switch to library; FP will push it.
Armagh is a ring 1 city and once we have maxed out Berlin and Konigsberg, it needs more workable tiles.
Tours must grow: irrigate the flood plain, switch to library to claim the wheat.
Nuremberg: new worker should mine (not road, we might want to diconnect all our irons) the iron mountain to get production. Work the 2 irrigated plains to get more commerce.

PS: I would not make peace w France soon. Better to conquer all their heartland (they have Cherbourg in the East) before making peace.

Got it. Will play tonight when i get home. Hopefully i will get the modem working too..

Looks like things have progressed well since i played last. Anything i should be aware of? are we going to rush the FP straight away? The push on France will continue, but if we get the chance should we wipe them out. Now would seam like an ideal time with no War Weariness.

Anything i should be aware of? are we going to rush the FP straight away?Yes and yes. See above. ;)

Out of interested flip probabilites for most likely to flip:

Probability of flip with 0 garrison Garrison to
City this turn in 10 turns prevent flip
1. Rouen 8.4% 54% 42
2. Paris 6.0% 46% 30
3. Canterbury 1.8% 16% 15
4. Orleans 0.4% 4% 3
5. St Petersburg 0.2% 2% 3
6. Tours 0.2% 2% 3

I don't think we need to worry too much about Orleans, Paris and Rouen are most likely to go at the moment, and of course we have plans for Canterbury. Continuing to starve these cities and of course capturing more of France will decrease the flip probability. On the subject of starving, I was keeping the clowns so that the city didn't riot as the resistors were quelled and hence stop starving, now that Paris and Canterbury have stopped resisting - yes the clowns need to be changed to taxmen to get the income - watch Rouen though - as they stop resisting they will need to be clowns to stop the next lot that stop resisting rioting immediately.

I too would not make peace with France yet - I just like to keep track of what they will offer.

I look forward to seeing our Forbidden Palace, I was quite disappointed not to be able to rush it during my turn!

Oh yes - France and England still haven't connected their Iron!

That is why I always keep at most 2 units in captured cities. I never ever have enough to prevent flips and just prepare to recapture them. Except for Canterbury of course. It should have the garrison to protect the Forbidden Palace. And of course: starve each city down to size 1 before growing again.

Apologies guys, but we had a power outage last night. I had just got my internet back working and tried to get on here when it went, so i didnt get to play last night, but i should be able to play tonight. My apologies again and sorry about the delay.

I have played 5 turns tonight and will play 5 more tomorrow morning all being well. So i will give you a brief summery of how things stand at the minute.

Paris flipped on my second turn and as a result Berlin roited... my fault :blush: I have takes back Paris as well as Dijon.

China have completed the Great Lighthouse and are building Sun Tzu's, as are India.

Im moving more troops south for the war in France.

Gunpowder is due in 9 with 3gpt ( i think.. im getting tired and cant remember :( )

Konigsburg is changed to Leos. Due in 44.

I'll post a full report and the save in the morning after i play. Getting very tired now and dont want to miss something and mess things up for us.

I'll post a full report and the save in the morning after i play. Getting very tired now and dont want to miss something and mess things up for us.Please make it at least THIS morning! We are playing very slow and you are 5 hours from not meeting the 72 hour timeframe 2nd time in a row.

Knappagh1 is skipped second time in a row for not playing his turns in time. Maybe he once again has power or computer or modem problems .....

The goal is to continue the conquest of France, bring our 2nd core up to speed, and really really go for Sun Tzu's (currently 43 turns) and Leonardo's (currently 55 turns).

pre-turn
Create taxmen in Paris and Canterbury.
Move sword and horse out of Orleans and switch to library.
Work Heidelburg mountain.
Switch Tours to library.
MM Salzburg for wltkd.
Change New Konigsberg and New Frankfurt to warrior, New Hamburg to worker.
Switch Paris to library, Rouen to warrior.
Research 70% to get invention in 6.
Sword kills barb horse at Frankfurt; spear follows for defense.
Hit return.

360AD (1) Leipzig sword, next; Nuremberg worker, next; Cologne worker, next.
Starve Canterbury and Paris. Barbarossa hurries Forbidden Palace in Canterbury.
Warrior as mp in Berlin.; join worker to Berlin: 42->39 turns.
Sword kills another barb at Frankfurt. Workers work; troops move S.
Science down to 60%.

IBT attacking barb promotes sword to elite

370AD (2) Hamburg worker, next; Forbidden Palace in Canterbury; starve; library; Heidelburg sword, worker; New Hamburg worker, next.
Starve Canterbury, Paris, Rouen.
Trade maps getting 25g from China, 27g from India, 14g from England
Hurry settler in New Leipzig.
Invention in 3 at 70%

380AD (3) Sevastopol warrior, next; Stuttgard sword, next, Vladivostok worker, next; Salzburg settler, next; New Berlin warrior, worker; New Konigsberg warrior, next
Starve Paris, Canterbury, Rouen
Hurry library in Tours for 116g to get wheat.
Dijon fighting: horse kills F archer-elite; sword kills spear-elite

390AD (4) Leipzig sword, next; Hamburg worker, next; Tours library, market; Nuremberg worker, market; Hannover sword, market
Sword captures Dijon, warrior

400AD (5) we discover invention, s gunpowder due in 11 at +7gpt
Kiev worker, next; Armagh sword, next; Heidelburg worker, market; Cologne worker, next
China builds Great Lighthouse in Nanking and Bangalore?
Berlin is size 12, Sun Tzu's in 29
Starve Rouen. Move towards Lyons

410AD (6) Hamburg worker, next; Bangalore switches to Sun Tzu's; we have to spy
sword gets 50g from goody hut on northern island; spying shows Bangalore nees 109 turns for Sun Tzu's

420AD (7) Leipzig sword, next; Frankfurt sword, library; Munich aqueduct, market; disease in Heidelburg
join worker to Konigsberg: 98->78; switch to Leonardo's due in 45

430AD (8) Orleans library, market; Hamburg worker, next; disease in Heidelburg; Cologne worker, settler
Fight for Lyon: sword kills spear, Barbarossa's swordman kills spear and captures Lyon s horse; disperse barb camp E of Frankfurt getting 25g
mm Berlin: 26->23 turns

440AD (9) Moscow worker, next; St.P library, market; New Frankfurt warrior,
worker
sword gets another 50g from hut on island
join 3 workers to Konigsberg 43->32 turns starving in 5
gunpowder in 5 at 70%, -4gpt

450AD (10) Leipzig sword, horse; Hamburg worker, next; Stuttgart sword, horse
Trade maps getting 25g.
We capture Marseill