View Full Version : Reconquista!
Lord_Sidious May 15, 2004, 07:30 AM In 711 a Mulsim army commanded by Tariq an Arab general invaded Iberia ruled by the weak Visigoth kingdom. in 718 they have "pushed" the Visigoths to Asturias and a Visigoth prince Pelayo started to reconquer lands from the moors and then started the reconquista with christians reconquering lands and then loose it again but in 1492 the "catholic kings" or "reyes catolicos" conquered the last moor kingdom of Granada.
The kingdoms-
Léon (900-1050)
Castille(?-1050)
Castille and léon(1050-1490)
Portugal(1143-?)
Spain(1490-?)
Navarra
Áragon
Catalunya
yaroslav May 15, 2004, 09:06 AM Rolo, Why are you mixming names in different sintaxs? If you try to wrote each kingdom in its own language, I think it's Aragon and not Áragon.
Plus, I believe that there is also a Galician kingdom you forget about ;) And also the kingdom of Asturias.
And if you consider that the kingdom of Castille ends in late XVI(why 1490?) then I wonder if the years that the king of Portugal was also the king of Spain are to be counted in Portugal's existence.
yaroslav May 15, 2004, 09:07 AM BTW, I'd always wanted to read about Portuguese Reconquista. Do you know any webpage in English about it? I'd prefer English over Portuguese, but I guess I can read portuguese, so if you have a portuguese link I'd also like to read it :)
Gagliaudo May 17, 2004, 05:41 AM Yaroslav will make it better ;) :
-Kingdoms :king:
Asturias (718-900 ca) -> Leòn
Leòn (900 - 1230)
Castilla (1035-1492?)
(Castilla-Leòn: 1037-1065, 1072-1160ca, 1230-1492)
Navarra (ca1000 - 1512/1600, owned by various: Champagne,Evreux,France,Bourbon)
(Navarra-Leòn-Aragòn-Castilla: 1002-1035, bajo Sancho III el Grande)
Aragòn (1035-1492)
Galicia (1035-1076ca) -> Leòn
Portugal (1139-1890ca?)
crusade 'kingdom' of Valencia (sec XIII)
Maiorca (1285-1349) -> Aragòn
Spain (1492-1932???)
Spain-Portugal (1580-1640)
Not exactly 'kingdoms': :D
county of Barcelona (801-1143)
county of Castilla (910-1002)
county of Sobrarbe-Ribagorza (secIX-1143)
Cid possessions (1084-1099/1102)
and so much others... ;)
yaroslav May 17, 2004, 01:50 PM Why "Spain 1932????"?
Thorgalaeg May 17, 2004, 03:33 PM He surely refers to the Second Republic being the end of Spain as kingdom.
But this only lasted seven years. With Franco Spain was again a kingdom but without king. Franco was some sort of "regent". :rolleyes:
yaroslav May 18, 2004, 02:09 PM Then it should be 1931, not 1932, I guess...
Gagliaudo May 19, 2004, 05:01 AM You're right, Yaroslav, I wasn't sure of the exact year...
Maybe other dates aren't exact, perhaps I'll back on them.
I like medieval Espana, that's why I wrote. But a Sapnish can make it better (like I alreday wrote :D ). Bye you all!
yaroslav May 19, 2004, 05:24 PM Your list is very good, Gagli, is that I didn't understand why until 1932 :D
Anyway, Spain today is again a Kingdom, even in the name - we're officialy The Kingodm of Spain
MCdread May 19, 2004, 05:48 PM Portugal was a kingdom between 1143 (although the exact date is debatable: this one is the date of the Zamora treaty and the implicit recognition from the Pope) and 1910.
Gagliaudo May 19, 2004, 07:30 PM @Yaroslav: thanks! :) Right, vosotros seis el Reino de Espana! (computeres italianos no tienen TILDE y tampoco los '!' y '?' reversos... :lol: Ustedes sabeis como hacerlos con combinaciones de tastos???)
@MCdread: thanks for info on Zamora treaty :) , my date was referred at the "field consacration" of Alfonso Henriques (hope it's right) after the victorious battle of Ourique (1139) against Moros.
MCdread May 19, 2004, 10:38 PM @MCdread: thanks for info on Zamora treaty :) , my date was referred at the "field consacration" of Alfonso Henriques (hope it's right) after the victorious battle of Ourique (1139) against Moros.
I think it's more adequate to say that the emergence of Portugal as an independent kingdom was more a process, achain of events, than a single one.
Apparently, Afonso Henriques started to use the title of King of Portugal after the battle you mention, but what exactly was that battle is very debatable. There is a tradition that in such battle the christian forces defeated the armies of 7 moorish kings in Ourique, however:
- the present day Town of Ourique is too deep in the south, and it is hardly imaginable that the he'd make an incursion to such a place
- Even if there was once another Ourique, it's stretching it a bit to consider the presence of so many islamic rulers
There's also the legend that Afonso Henriques was blessed with a vision and the Heavens gave him a shield (a sort of sequel from Constantine's "In hoc signo vinces"), which was probably created a couple of centuries later. Probably what happened was a raid followed by acclamation by his army. The detail of the shield is justified by some modern historians to be originated in the tradition of germanic leaders to be acclaimed by the troops standing on the shield. It should be said that his weapons, and the shield in particular were reveared almost as relics after his death.
Of course, the idea behind this mysthification (sp?) of the battle is obvious: to justify his own ambitions with the approval of God Himself. So, after 1139 he starts to sign documents as king of Portugal, which doesn't necessarily mean anything. At the time Alfonso VII (I think) of León considered himself to be the Emperor of all Spains, and a new king only meant that his dignity of emperor (higher than the kings) was enlarged. On another note, we know that what Afonso Henriques really wanted was the crown of the emperor, being his cousin and also the defender of the interests of Cluny and Burgundy of course in the peninsula. For Afonso VII the main interest was to avoid Afonso Henriques ressurrecting the old Galician Kingdom of King Garcia. It was also because of that Portugal was created, separated from modern Galicia.
Anyway, after a few incidents, they sign a treaty in Zamora in 1143, which is traditional date of independence, but one must be careful when applying modern concepts to medieval times...
What this document really says has been subject of intense debate among portuguese and spanish scholars. Some believe it is a feudal document, others not that much, some that is a treaty that creates a brand new state, others that is implicit that Afonso Henriques becomes king but owing vassalage to the king of León, etc.
After that Afonso Henriques wrote a letter to the Pope declaring himself his vassal only and no one else's, which the Pope implicitely accepted. In the following year Afonso VII complained formally to the Pope, but at that point, whether Afonso Henriques was a vassal renegating the conditon, or just had a different interpretation of their relations, he knew he had ceased to be Lord of Portugal.
In 1910, the Republic was created, by coincidence at the exact same day of the signature of the Treaty of Zamora, 5th of October.
Gagliaudo May 20, 2004, 03:36 AM @MCdread: excellent! :b: Well, you're not Chinese... ;)
I'm glad to see somebody know so well his country's history. :b:
yaroslav May 20, 2004, 03:13 PM Gagli, I hope this will be useful:
http://www.cnr.berkeley.edu/ucce50/ag-labor/7links/7int.htm
Gagliaudo May 27, 2004, 05:23 AM @Yaroslav:
THANKS A LOT!!!
Exactamente lo que me necesitaba!
(disculpa mi retraso, sòlo ahora he visto tu poste)
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