Version C3C patch 1.15

And so it begins. The Incan adventure in the RBCiv Age of Discovery Scenario.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RBC14G_Opening.jpg

Here is our start position:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RBC14G_-_Start.jpg

Looking into our city:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RBC14G_-_Cuzco_1490.jpg

Here is our science situation:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RBC14G_-_Science_Start.jpg

Our UU is the Chasqui Scout which has enslavement. It is 1.1.1, but treats all terrain as roaded.

Since Grimjack is without a doubt our most veteran player, we’ll give him the honors of going first. Since Bede is on holiday until Friday, I’ll take the number two slot.

Grimjack
Bugs
Kiech
Bede

We’re open for a fourth player.

Oh, and the save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RBC14G_-_Start.zip

I wouldn't mind joining this one, although understand that I just got myself up to Monarch difficulty, and slowly weaning off of the governor for help. But you guys are really good at dissussion in these games, so I don't think it will be a problem.

Kiech, welcome aboard. I think you'll learn a lot. Since you're only playing 10 turns at a pop, you can't completely mess up the game. (although I almost did in the RBC13H game. :rolleyes: )

Hmm, timed out on my reply earlier.

I will see if I can kick this off soonish, although I do not necessarily agree on the most experienced bit :)

I need to do some math after looking at the various options for culture.

This is emperor, so I assume OCC Single City Culture is off the table ;)
( The option where you do not build more cities ever. Just use the starting one. )

Grimjack

Grimjack: I could be possible, but not for the Incas. You simply need at least one Settler to bring Irrigation over to Cuzco.

I knew I had overlooked something :)

I will still assume our culture city will be our cap though, as no other city will be able to reach 4000 without massive sacrifice.

I agree that the capitol should be the 20K city. I don't think we could pull off a OCC on Emperor. We'll need too many Chasquis to enslave the numbers we'll need. Enslaving barbs should be profitable. Run our Chasquis throughout South America, and then let the barbs camps generate. Then farm the barbs for slaves. We should be able get a few that way.

First, start by mapping outr governments, hoping to see a possibility to get a money rushing one.
1) despotism, as usual
2) Blood Cult – Like despotism, but more unit support and somewhat less corruption. I see no reason to ever enter this, given we are not religious. Remember we will not get culture during anarchy. If despotism tile penalty had been removed, this would have been a great government.
3) With Theology comes Catholic Monarchy. It is like the normal Monarchy except corruption is worse.
4) Protestants, worker efficiency goes up, but unit support goes down. It is available with Protestantism.
I think we should aim for Theology and Catholic Monarchy. We are not likely to reach Protestantism in time for it to make a difference. Theology is on a part of the tech tree we very much want, as there is Monotheism and Education.

Cultural buildings: I will list shield cost, culture and tech. I will start from the easy techs.
Ancient Age
Coliseum -- 120/2 -- Construction three techs away
Library -- 80/2 -- Storytelling three techs away
Ball Court -- 150/8 -- Ball games one tech away ( Already built. )
Temple of the Moon -- 300/8 – Blood Cult -- One tech away, gives two free techs
Temple of the Sun -- 400/10 – Blood Cult -- One tech away, Universal Suffrage+Battlefield
Temple of Cuculcan -- 400/8 -- Body Ornamentation -- Two techs away.

Middle Ages -- I assume we wont get any wonders here. It is mainly possible if we happen to get a Scientific leader.
Cathedral -- 160/3 -- Monotheism seven techs away
University -- 200/3 -- Education nine techs away


Age of Exploration
Colonial Capital -- 200/2 -- Middle of Exploration tree.

I wont go into Renaissance now, as I have no idea if a New World player ever gets into this age.

I can see two paths here. Either we go all out and see if we can nab Temple of the Moon. We need to get some regular tech by trading so we can get a prebuild going. Blood cult will need to be researched ASAP by ourselves. I do not think we can nab two of the wonders in our culture city though, so after that it is Library and Coliseum.

Other choice is to go up the regular tech tree, and get Library/Coliseum asap. Contacts would be hugely beneficial for this, and we are not situated very well for getting them.
( Central America is likely to be blocked once we reach it. )

I am leaning towards the Moon gambit, as two free techs could be huge if we have come a bit on the regular tree. ( We could get the expensive native techs and use as trade bait, or we could get to Construction really fast. )

I will let the team come with some opinions/thoughts before proceeding though.
Grimjack

We can get Cusco to eight spt. Thats some 40 turns building for Temple of the Moon.

The river hill to the southeast looks like the only option for our settler. This will bring the ability to irrigate the plains, letting Cusco grow to size 5.

I also like the Moon gambit. We will only be competing against the American civs, and they will have their hands full of Europeans quite soon.

We can take Panama if we want with our first (with luck the second!) settler to keep the Mayans from moving in on our territory. Plus it will secure a source of gems for us. The only problem is that it will hamper our research in the beginning a little bit.

LOL good call on the river hill. I am a little claustrophobic, so I completely missed that. Heh, there is only one other square that can be irrigated without creative city placement...but we need lots of workers...I guess we can build scouts in lieu of spearmen and try farming all of those barbarians. Which brings me to the last question, should we destroy the barb camps or leave them be to provide us with defence vs the white people & hopefully more slaves?

Hmm, after getting our first city to bring irrigation to Cuzco, we need to eliminate that jungle tile quickly. In my scenario where we grab Panama, the Mayans still beat us to Blood onamentation, despite the fact that they are landlocked.

Getting contacts with at least the Mayans right away is our key to trading techs with the white people. And we need to trade at least maps every single turn to keep up with everyone. Oh, and we will meet the Spanish earlier if we hang out near Panama as well.

The barbarians are very mean in this game. It is tough to deal with them using only the scouts, let alone farm them.

Oh, do we REALLY need the courthouse in Cuzco? That would save us a lot of money in the long run.

I sold the courthouse when I looked at the save, just to prevent me from forgetting to do this when I start to play in a couple of hours.

Interesting that we could get a speed settler and snatch Panama. I never thought of that.

I will have to ponder a bit when I play later.
Grimjack

Ps, I have no intention of reseraching Blood Ornamentation by myself. Only way to get it would be if we get it for free from Moon. It is such a great risk on all the shields needed. I think the shields will be safer in Library,Coloseum and Cathedral.
( Now should we get Moon and a Science leader... )

RBC14G, Incan supremacy.

1490(0) I will start on the road to a temple of the moon gambit.
Sacrificing workers will be saved as a last resort, not to be done unless absolutely necessary to reach the cultural goal.
If we need to sacrifice workers, I would consider the game a draw unless it is impossible to reach single city culture before game ends.

I send out our Chasquis in several directions, and start work on an spearman. Siad spearman are supposed to guard workers from barbarians.

Research is full speed on Blood Cult. I am counting on our superior trading skills and barb camps to supply the 200 we do not have :)
On second thought, I set Cusco on worker. It is twenty turns before we can prebuild, so Cusco ought to have grown back by then.

1491(1) Scouts find iron to the far south. Another scouting pair frag a camp right next to us, but despite two victories, no new worker. I am surprised by the worker only eneding one turn to road the grasslands. This shaves two turns off of research as well.

1492 I heal the barb hunters, and send the southern and northern scouts on their way. The northern scout has as goal to reach Panama before it is blocket, and he is not to deviate until he has the contacts we need.
Southern scout is also not to engage barbarians, as he is mapping for some value to our maps when we meet the Europeans.

1493 Tiwanaku is founded on the hills to get water to the two irrigation targets. Worker starts to irrigate. Tiwanaku is set to granary. It is supposed to get all our new workers/settlers once we start to build culture in Cusco.
Despite what I just said about our scouts, I cannot resist a lone archer on the plains, and we get our first captured worker.
Irrigation is three turns, also an odd number.
Blood cult is down to 24 turns, so not to destroy growth in Cusco, I switch worker to spear.

1494 I reach Panama with our first scout. I will send a second scout towards this, in case we want to send a settler here.

1495 One of our interior scouts nets us another slave. Lets hope he can reach home.
I spot green borders in the north, but no contact. ( Not even with ctrl-shift-D)

1496 We have contact with the Mayans, and of course no trades are possible.

1497 Complete a spearman, and start another. Discover mines are a four turn build.
I can almost traverse the Mayan lands, but almost is not good enough. I hope he wont kick me out though.
I think of something sneaky, and I sell our granary. Cusco can only reach size 5 this side of Catholicism, and I would rather merge captured workers than letting it grow by itself.
Also an even more important benefit is that we now have a 60 shield prebuild.

1498 Spot the dark green borders in the north, and we have contact with the Aztecs.
Get another worker and 25 gold from fragging a camp. There are a lot of camps, and as far as I know, new ones can sprout. If new ones cannot sprout, then perhaps we need to change tactics.
I find horses way south in Argentine.

1499 Scout some more.

1500 Even more scouting. I kill a barbarian on the plains, but no worker.

1501 We manage to get past the Aztec lands as well. No sign of the rumoured white devils though.

IBT: Well, speaking of the devil, here they come. Isabella offers Alphabet for 100 gold, but I decline. This would interfere with our own research. Then William and Elizabeth does the same. At the end, all five Europeans offered of the same 100 gold for Alphabeth.

1502 Mayans and Aztecs both used up their money buying into Alphabet.
The Europeans are fairly unanimous, and I sell our world map to Netherlands for 1 gpt and Alphabet + territory map.
I notice Aztecs are up Writing and currency as well. Mayans have neither tech.
Iroqs are up Currency, and I smell a good twofer.
With Spain I get Writing for Mayan Contact, world map and 32 gold.
Hmm, Currency was doubtful with the Iroqs.
I get Mapmaking from the Portugese for 8 gpt and 28 gold. Since we are building Temple of the Moon, There was no use for Storytelling. Map Making will let us trade maps with the natives, and clean out everyones treasury.
I get Currency, world map and 25 gold from the Mayans for Map Making.
World map and 3 gold from Iroqs for Writing.
Get 101 gold from England for World map.
Get World map and 55 gold from Isabella for World map.

I proceed to sell stuff around, and at the end of the day, we have 317 gold, complete world map, and running -12 gpt instead of -6. We can buy any tech we want, but I save money, to make sure next tech is at least a twofer.

1503 That’s new. I spot a barbarian camp guarded by a pikeman. I put a citizen to work in the goldmine, and we cut Blood cult to nine turns. Granary is a ten turn prebuild, so I start that. We lose one food, but we have some 12 stored, so I do not see that as a problem.
I earn some 40 gold selling new world maps to people.

IBT: Hmm, the pikeman attacks, but the archer stays at home defending.

1504 Kill the barb camp on the plains. I am not comfortable on the odds of a regular Chasqui attacking fortified units on hills.

1505 More scouting. Make 40 gold selling maps.

You may want to move out a spear to guard our goldmine from the barbarian. Be aware you will need to either move the scout from our other city, or get a lux tax to keep Cusco from rioting.
Here is the save, take us to glory (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RBC14G_1505.zip)

It is a bit of time before we can build our first settler, so it may be premature for a dotmap. Jungles are 48 turns to clear for slaves, so it might be better to merge them into cities, and get real workers instead. I would prefer to settle along the rivers, to get some river trade, although snagging iron and horses would be good too.
All in all, this is easliy one of the worst starting positions I have ever seen.
It will be the end of the game before we get productive.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RBC14G_1505.jpg

Grimjack

Great trading Grimjack!

I have the save. I'll play this evening. That jungle is going to be a killer.

Nice job Grimjack! A very ideal start!

Its a shame we can't build on the jungles. Since I haven't done one before, I thought I would throw out a map of the situation:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Rbcinca1.jpg

The rubber is not very convienent to grab...but follow the line to the north and stop before the jungle. The grapes and peter are pretty easy, just follow the line south till you are on the hills, and go one square E to a plains with a lake. I agree that we are probably the worst off of all of the civs in this game. The red X's are nice little spots for a settler to plop down, but the northern X should be down on the list. There are horses to the far south of us, but unless we get a nice road system up, they won't be useful.

As far as the barbs go, pikemen replace the horsemen in this game, and the archers replace the warriors. That is why the barbarians are acting funny. Just be forwarned that when we get the 'massive barbarian uprising' message, it means that 15 or so pikemen have popped up on the board.

Cowtown is probably the best possible place for us to have on the entire map. Hills with rivers, 2 iron right next to each other, 2 cows, gold mountain, and bonus grass and very little jungle. There are gems and peter NE of there, with sugar, a gold hill, some fish. We could get several really nice towns in that area, if we are quick. I think this is probably more important than the rubber spot.

Where did Bugsy go?

I have it. I have two more turns to play and then I'll post. Should have it up shortly.

Pre-flight – 1505 AD – Wait and see where the barb will go before moving a spear.

Nothing on the diplomatic front.

These lands stink to high heaven.

1. 1506 AD – Fortify our Chasqui at Panama. Move workers to gold mountain.

IBT - Spanish start Leo’s.

2. 1507 AD – Collect 25G from a barb camp. Science drops 10%. BC due in 4.
The Maya have gotten currency, but still don’t have writing.

3. 1508 AD – Not a lot.

IBT – French start Magellan’s

4. 1509 AD – Aztecs have CoL. I can get Construction for 289G & WM from Portugal. Liz will give it to me for 280G & WM. William offers 275G and WM. Execute that deal. Get Col & WM for Construction from Aztecs.

IBT – Portuguese build Sistine Chapel.

5. 1510 AD – Move workers to BG. Science comes down to 80%.

IBT – Blood Cult comes in. Body Ornamentation next. Switch Cuzco to Temple of the Moon, due in 43 turns. No we don’t want to revolt.

6. 1511 AD – Move the spear to cover the workers. Lux up 10%. Get 104G plus everyone’s WM for our WM. MM Cuzco for zero growth.

IBT – Barb attacks our spear and dies.

7. 1512 AD – Spear back to cuzco. Lux to 0.

8. 1513 AD – The Portuguese have come and built a city on the eastern side of the isthmus of Panama. Guess it doesn’t work to block from the west.
Buy a slave from the Iroquois for WM & 101G. Set him to work on the BG.

Sell WM around for 69G.
IBT – Paris build’s Leo’s

9. 1514 AD – We could attack a 1.3.1 barb pike with our Chasqui, but I don’t like the odds.

IBT – Madrid builds Cop’s

10. 1515 AD – Nothing.

After Action: We’ve just about explored everything we can explore. I didn’t sell our map for the last two turns, hoping to get more gold. We're in a bit of a hurt locker. The next post is a screen shot of our lands. We probably need to think about a settler soon to get over to the two cows area.

Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RBC14G_-_1515_AD.zip

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RBC14G_1515_AD.jpg

Got it. Tiwanaku will shoot for a settler next turn. The problem with that city is that it sucks for a settler factory. :( I think I will settle the hill S of the lake first, then we need to move on the cows and the grapes.

Unfortunatley, its hit or miss on the tech jump...but we seem to be doing OK for now. Truthfully, we are only in competition with the Mayans and the Aztecs. The Incans can't possibly win, and the AI doesn't know how to bring back the 'treasures' effectively. If I can spare a few workers, we can clear out the jungle tile in Cuzuo and get us up to size 6...heh, we'll see.

I will play my turns in the AM after work. Much too tired right now. :sleep:

Ummm...don't you mean the Iroquois can't possibly win? Or are you a big-time pessimist?

Arathorn

LOL, I was very tired when I wrote that!

I would set Tiwanaku to military production after this settler. ( With the occasional worker thrown in. )

Get the settler to the cows, so we can get a high food city going. Corruption will hopefully not be awful, since we only have three cities.
( Or is there some resource I cannot see on the hill. I do agree on the hill as a settler spot, I just think we should get the cows first. )

Otherwise, good progress. Cusco will be locked in to culture production for a long time now. We have both library and Colloseum now, Cathedral hopefully soonish.

I was thinking of the lake site because it is close, really. Ok, settler goes to cowtown. Getting ready to play now.

Pre-flight check

Downgrade to 1.15b - check :cry:

Heh, the tatoo research is going to bankrupt us in a few turns, will watch that.

Maps are only worth a few gold to everyone, I can wait.

Storytelling is off the table for now, and I COULD trade out blood cult for 3 gold, but NO.

(1)1516 - nothing of intrest, except a lone English maceman wandering aroun Canada. Moving a scout to try and grab a few slaves from the barbarians.

(2)1517 - Tiwanaku granary>settler

(3)1518 - Pikeman attacks...no slave

(4)1519 - workers finish mine, moon in 25, move to clear jungle...
Make about 30 gold off of maps.

(5)1520 - slow down research a bit to avoid losing our treasury

(6)1521 - Jungle choping begun. Only 10 turns. N america is as explored as it can get. Bringing the scout home.

(7)1522 - :sleep:

(8)1523 - Tiw grows to size 3, good settler in 3, MM to avoid rioting
Hmm, 2 workers or storytelling? Both really tough choices. Sell blood cult to the 'tecs for 47g +wm. Take a chance on getting some gold from a barb camp and I GET A NEW WORKER! :D I send him on his way home.

I start some creative math. I can buy storytelling for WM + 11gpt + 1g from france, and a worker for WM + 113g from portugal (cheapest prices!) Starving Cuzco seems appealing, so I move a peasant from an unimproved hill to a gold mountain with a road. I take it. The jungle team will be done in 8 turns, so we can recover a bit of growth and slow down the temple a bit.
*caution - Cuzco will starve soon. Before it does that, move the peasant back to the hills, then over to the open grass to bring us up to size 6. I would like to time the Moon so we can get Monotheism & Theology at the same time, then switch to Monarchy.
The new portugese worker is strapped down to our sacrifical altar, and a high shaman tells me that his soul should get us 40 favors from our God. Hmm. Not now, I say, he has important work to do! The crowds boo as I instruct the worker to clear up the unsightly jungle.

(9)1524 - :sleep:

(10)1525 - slave reaches the jungle, it will be done in 5 now. Scout finds the very end of S America.

After action report: We are in good shape, despite the deal with the devil for storytelling and the new slave. You might need to switch to the Sun temple to delay the Moon (HA!) until Body Ornamentation is complete. The other civs have begun moving in on our territory, too bad we can't afford a military right now. Cuzco is still starving to keep us up in tech. I suggest roading the new grassland, then chop up the one SE of it to bring in irrigation when we get monarchy. The scout "Worker protector" is susposed to protect the workers from ambushes.

The save. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RBC14INCA1525_AD.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/inca1525.jpg

Oh, the reason for NOT building cities on the west coast. Deserts are impassable. Kinda kills our Agri trait...but whatever, at least they can't take away our 3 food hills.

Got it.

Play tomorrow.

Temple in 19 and tattoos in 17, looks liek quite some fine timing.
I wouldn't have gone for tattoos though, but it ought to be good trade bait.

Also, a note, we are saving our sacrifices for the very last turn, if there are no other way to get a technical win. I hope we wont have to sacrifice at all.

( Well, we could sacrifice in an outlying city for an instant cultural expansion.... Just do not sacrifice in our 4K city. )

Grimjack

Actually, we get it right on time after we build cowtown. Instead of milking the cow, work the gold mountain.

RBC14G

1525
Takes a while to get oriented but I think I understand what is going on. Temple of the Moon for Montheism and Theology. Body Ornamentation for military. The settler becomes a gaucho and rides off to herd catle on the pampas.

Cuzco builds culture. Tiwaaku builds military. Cowtown makes babies.

1526
Chasquis heading north and south, slaves chopping,

1527
Tiwanaku equips settler and settler and scout head wast, then south to cowtown
Settler production takes our scientist so research on tattoing goes up and we lose 7gpt. Turn research down to 0 and shift Cuzco to Temple of the Sun due in 30.
Sell WM for chump change (20g) to get some money in the treasury

Aztecs boot our scout back into Texas

Maya start Temple of Sun and the Temple of Moon

Aztecs start Temple of Sun

1528
Trekking
Turn science back up 19 turns at -10

"Our treasury is running dangerously low" moans Dottie the DA. "Shut up and spend" shouts Sapa

1529
Trekking.
Find Arucan camp with 17 fortified pikemen in Argentina
Peddle world map around for another 10g

"Our treasury is running dangerously low" moans Dottie the DA. "Shut up and spend" shouts Sapa

1530
Trekking
"Our treasury is running dangerously low" moans Dottie the DA. "Shut up and spend" shouts Sapa
Chasqui in south heads for the Andes

The annoyed Aztecs want to extort our treasury and our territory map. Nope and he declres war!! He has a long way to come to get here

1531
Science shut off again.
Our doughty Chasqui takes on a Jag warrior and gets eaten
Found Machu Piccu at the closest cow

1532
Maya are moving close , found Bonampak in Venezuela

The Dutch start Luther's Theses

1533
Sell world maps around and kick up science spending again

"Our treasury is running dangerously low" moans Dottie the DA. "Shut up and spend" shouts Sapa

1534
Portugese colonist and pike appear in Colombia
Hire a scientist at Tiwa and put the citizen at Cuzco back on the gold mountain

Tattooing due in 9 at -6gpt with 19 in the treasury

"Our treasury is running dangerously low" moans Dottie the DA. "Shut up and spend" shouts Sapa

1535
Waltzing with the Portugese at Cartegena
Spain builds Magellan

"Our treasury is running dangerously low" moans Dottie the DA. "Shut up and spend" shouts Sapa

1536
Dance some more

Now Francis plays extorionist. In your beret, Frank, and he declares.

1537

For some reason I can't fathom the treasury takes a huge jump in income. Spend it all on Body Painting

"Our treasury is running dangerously low" moans Dottie the DA. "Shut up and spend" shouts Sapa

1538
Waltzing with Henry

"Our treasury is running dangerously low" moans Dottie the DA. "Shut up and spend" shouts Sapa

1539
Waltzing

Turn science back to zero

Henry founds Belem on the coast

1540
Treasury at 20, science back to 60%. Body painting in 4 at +4. Temple of Moon due in 5.

Monte will talk, has Monotheism. when Body Painting comes in might want to try and trade it to Montezuma for Monotheism before ToM finishes. then we can pull Education as well as Theology from the ToM. To facilitate that possibility I have reset Cuzco to ToS and put science back to 100%.

What fun!! I've never micromanaged to starvation before, nor jacked the science slider around so hard, but it worked!

We are cooking right along here. Barracks a-building in Tiwa, granary in Machu Piccu. At war with Aztecs and France and haven't seen hide nor hair of either. Workers whacking jungle.


Shooting for the Moon (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RBC14Inca1540AD.zip)

LOL! Take us to the Moon, Grimjack!

Good plan to get education, but Monty wants a city for peace right. :( We really need a military, but this scenario makes it so hard to build one...

You can move a peasant to the new grasslands and get Cuzco up to 6, hopefully we can speed up research a bit more. Looks like the Euros are making thier move on our territory...should be an interesting turn of plays. Oh, diamonds DON'T provide lux to us...heh. Luckily grapes still do. I say take the iron area first, then go for the grapes.

Sounds like the boring part of this game is over. Didn't last too long.

I am not worried about losing culturally, but I played the game through...and lost to the Spanish (who had very few cities) around turn 100. :(

Boring? My round was a gas..a little anxiety, a few chuckles..

Huh, what ??

Ooo, it is my turn, and we have two wars going, with our best troop a glorified warrior :)

Sounds like lots of fun, when our opponents have Medievals ...

I suspect I will do some groveling, as we cannot let our best city spend time building units.

So, the spreadsheet will have to appear as well, to check what culture we will have at around turn 100 from buildings.
I do not suspect we have any chance at building enough of a fleet to prevent the white devils from taking our tresures home.

Grabbed it, and will play late tonight. ( In another 12 hours. )

Just remember the bad guys are a long, long ways away and have other nations in between, plus jungle and a few barbarian camps.

RBD14G Incans. 1540

I change the tile Cusco is working, without losing any turns on the Moonshine. We even get a bit of food left over.
I do not like that the demands have started. They are usually followed by more demands. Unfortunately we cannot give our treasury while we are doing negative research, as we then would lose valuable real estate.
I will use another scientist to shave another turn of tattoos, hopefully managing to get clear of demands.

IBT: No demands

1541: I work the gold mines this turn in Cusco, letting me put a citizen back to driving cows, and also letting me go light on research spending.
Aztecs are still the only native tribe with knowledge of Monotheism. I can probably get peace and Monotheism for Tattoos though.

IBT: Good thing I tuned down research earlier. Portugal comes and wants our 18 gold. Request granted. Tattoos come in, and I set empty research on Mono.

1542 Lux goes to 10% and the last citizen gets back to work multiplying. We now have 1 gold, 18 gpt.
Hmm, Aztecs are greedy, and will not allow Monotheism for Tattoos. I suspect they are researching Tattoos by themselves.
Instead I sign peace with Aztecs for 17 gpt and Tattoos. I get Monotheism in the deal though.
Iroq cannot get Tattoos, or they got it this very turn. I sell them MOnotheism for world map and 80 gold. It is cheap, but I reccon they are due to extort something from us right about now.

I spend most of the gold building an embassy in the Mayan Capitol of Chichen Itza. 7 spt, buildign spearmen and jav throwers, with a garrison of eight. They are running 30% science, so I do not suppose they will get any new techs soonish.

IBT: Nothing.

1543 I move a scout into our empty city, allowing me to nix the lux tax, and hopefully get less demands. Moon in two.

1544 Moon is ours. I doublecheck our tech is Theology. I just notice during AI shuffling that France and England is at war, due to France having allied the Aztecs to their cause.
Medieval combat is out there, and hopefully we will get it from Theology.

IBT: The reason war is bad rears its ugly head, as France signs in the Mayans against us. This is one enemy that is NOT far away, and his 2/2 Jav throwers will have fun against our 1/1.
Temple of the Moon comes in. :band: I get Theology, and immediately revolt, and Education comes in.
Start building a bowman in Cusco. We need someone to deal with the Mayans. I may switch in case no mayans arrive.

1545 We drew a two turn anarchy. Made a mistake, as I discopver I cannot establish embassies during anarchy. Oops. I had hoped to sign in the Aztecs for some flak against the mayans.
I get Ball Games, Medieval Combat and 40 gold for Theology from Aztecs
Get ENgineering for Theology from Iros

1546 Our lone scout pillage a road for the Mayans.

IBT: And then it happens, and surprises me greatly. OUr pillaging Chasqui repulses a mayan archer, and we are in the Golden Age. A France Medieval comes into range of our cities, and we are catholic.

1547 France is willing to talk, and 90 + 12 gpt will get us out of their clutches. I will see if it gets cheaper after I whack their Medieval.

1548 I have three Chasqui in range of the Medieval, but in the end one is enough, as the craven troops fall over themselves to be our slaves.
Now peace is 105+11gpt. no troops are visible so I switch Cusco to Library.
Lux is expensive, as our cow town has no roads, and much lux tax is needed to keep all citizens working. I think it worth it because we will need the population for workers/settlers from this city asap.
French has foudned a city very close to us on a nearby iron.

1549 Mayans still do not want to talk. I want to sign peace with them first, as I suspect that would cheapen the peace with the French. Of course next player may chose to continue the war, but it is in my opinion very risky, considering how weak we are from the wonder building.

1550 We have enough money for a partial rush in cusco ( switch granary, rush that, and then switch back to Library.) That would save one turn on the library build, at the cost of us not being able to rush military should we need to.
I would like us to sign peace with teh Mayans, paying them Theology as concession should they want it. Our scouts are too expensive to be used in warfare until we have Trebs, so you may want to build a couple in the next city we found.
Cow town I would like to build a worker before we start cranking settlers, so we can get some roads down there.

Culture 1271+29/turn -> win in 94 turns. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RBD14G_1550.zip)

I would use build order library,cathedral, colloseum, university. It may very well be better to use library,Aqueduct, cathedral,colloseum,university

Or if we get a lot of money from some smart brokering, then rushing university gives most culture per turn.

Grimjack

I have done some math now, and I will present it here, hoping that someone will prve me wrong.

x=number of turns to cultural victory.

I assume library in two turns, Colosseum in 8 turns, cathedral in 18 turns, and University in 34 turns.

4000 = 1271 + 29x + 2(x-2) + 2(x-8) + 3(x-18) +2(x-34)
This can be simplified into
4000 - 1130 = 38x
Which gives x=75 more turns until victory.
Given that we are at turn 60 now, and europeans are expected to have victory in 40 turns, prospects look grim.
Feel free to prove my math wrong, or my assumption on how fast the europeans will get VP victory.

If I am right, are there any way we can hinder the europeans from bringing treasure home ?
Do the europeans freight treasures during wartime ? If not, do we have the resources to get the europeans to fight amongst themselves ? Will such a fight give them more VPs than they otherwise would have gotten from unit kills ?

Grimjack

I have found that using England to war on Portugal and France almost ceases the VP total for these two countries. I have never had England as the AI beat me in VP. It is always Portugal. So if you can get England against Portugal, and throw spain in on one side or the other, you will greatly reduce the amount of VP's returned. The fact that you are a catholic monarcy makes deals with the Spanish easier.

The only thing you forgot about are the slaves. The Mayan game is going very strong without any wonders. Of course, slaves are hard to get since we don't have any sort of army. We currently have 5 slaves or 200 culture points, that brings us to 71 turns. The question is WHEN do we start the sacrificing?

Cuzco can only get up to size 8, so we need to decide if its even worthwhile to build an aqueduct.

Things are going a little differently in this game than the one I played through, (England was destroyed by the French, and Portugal was still in Europe.) so we may have more time than turn 100. I suspect the Spainyards won with piracy. The cities they have now don't produce any treasures.

The Inca's in this game definatley get the short end of the stick. (Oh how I long for the mesoamerica jungles that can be mined!)

Let's see what Bugsy can do for us!

The thing was that we would not sacrifice any slaves at all.

Having one city culture with slave sacrifices would make a different approach.
( I.E instead of wasting all that time building wonders, rack up some 10-20 scouts and go willy nilly on the other natives. )

We can get at least two workers every three turns from our existing cities, so getting workers enough could perhaps be possible even without warfare.

Grimjack

We can't sacrifice our own workers though, I believe. Or am I reading you wrong? Otherwise the game would be TOO easy. Heck, I wouldn't even bother with science or military, just build workers all day long.

Ugh, I can't belive how weak we are in this game. Did we make a wrong turn somewhere? Should we have built another settler before the Moon, or just lots of military?

We can't sacrifice our own workers though, I believe. Or am I reading you wrong? Otherwise the game would be TOO easy. Heck, I wouldn't even bother with science or military, just build workers all day long.

Ugh, I can't belive how weak we are in this game. Did we make a wrong turn somewhere? Should we have built another settler before the Moon, or just lots of military?

The weakness comes right from the really crummy terrain. The military doesn't reach any kind of decent power until Body Ornamentation or the European battle techs, so building them early would have just increased unit costs without any return.

Getting the Europeans at each other's throats is a really good idea, if we can pull it off.

Order of go check:
Grimjack-played
Bugs - up
Kiech - on deck
Bede - in his jungle hermitage.

I have not won as an American Civ without sacraficing. The closest I got was as the Inca, where I only needed to sacrafice 10 to win. In my game I never got to Cathedrals, and I don't even think I built a Coluseum. Therefor, if you can get the Europeans fighting, you should be able to pull out a win.

I'm playing now. Sorry, got caught up in playing pirate in the "E" game.

I will still continue to collect slaves. We really need them to improve this lousy land we live in. Should we try for another wonder? Will that improve our chances enough to win?

Pre-flight – 1550 AD – Man, we are kicking butt! Three cities!

VP – wise, Spain has 4920 points at the top of the heap. We are leading the one-city cultural race, but not by much.

We are presently making 29 cpt.

Diplo Check – The Mayans won’t talk to us. France wants a city for peace.

What does our military look like? Fearsome! 2 spears and 3 Chasqui Scouts. No wonder the French want a city. Decide that we need some more military right now. Spend 32G cutting a turn off a Q-Bowman.

No one is building the Temple of the Sun yet. Might have to try for that after we get all the rest of our cultural buildings.

Make 6G selling our WM around. City check looks good. Spend 76G cutting a turn off our library build with a granary rush. I hope I don’t live to regret that one.

IBT – French sign up the Dutch in a MA against us.

1. 1551 AD – Not much to do there. Move the workers towards Machu Picchu.

IBT - Hiawatha demands Education. I ignore him, and we don’t go to war.
Cuzco: library=> colosseum (following Grimjack’s plan)
Tiwan: Q-Bow=> Q-Bow
Machu: Granary=> Settler

2. 1552 AD – Take a peak into Saute Ste. Marie. A pike is defending. Start a road towards Machu.

IBT – An Archer steps out of Sault Ste. Marie towards our C-Scout.

3. 1553 AD – Run a circle around the archer and step just out of range.

Sign a peace treaty with the Mayans. Give them Theology for 8G & WM.

IBT – French archer steps forward again.

4. 1554 AD – Step just beyond the French archer. Hope to get him out in the open.

Gathering gold to shorten the build time on the colosseum.

IBT – The Spanish and the Portuguese are now at war with us. Must have been that target we painted on our chest. The French don’t venture out into the jungle. We get war happiness.

5. 1555 AD – This may be controversial, but I switch our Colesseum build to a Q-Bow wasting 13 shields. The dogpile is only going to get worse, since the AI is starting to smell blood.

Move a C-scout into Machu, move the Q-Bow towards Tiwan.

Attempting to divert attention from ourselves I buy the Mayans into our Spanish war for Education.

Spend 55G for an Embassy with the Aztecs. They’ll complete the Temple of K in 34 turns with 6 spt. Bribe the Aztecs with Education against the Portuguese.

IBT – The Spanish come out of nowhere and we lose one of our C-scouts in Machu. We are in deep kimshi boys and girls. A Dutch MDI approaches, and the French send two longbows our way.
Cuzco: Q-Bow=>Q-Bow

6. 1556 AD – Machu will fall next turn. The Spanish won’t talk to us. The French still want our second city. I send a Q-Bow towards Machu. There is a force of three Spanish longbows just outside Machu. Change the build in Machu to a Q-Bow. Hope it stands. I’m in survival mode now boys and girls.

IBT – Machu falls.
Tiwan: Q-Bow=> Spear.

7. 1557 AD – Pull workers back. I wish I had some clear land around Tiwan.

IBT – The French pull the Iroquois into the war.
The French step out into a cleared tile.
Cuzco: Q-bow=> Q-bow

8. 1558 AD – At the gates of Tiwan: Two Q-bows enslave French LBs. One promotes.

“We’re not dead yet. We’re getting better.”

Spend 48G rushing a spear in Tiwan.

IBT – Iroquois declared on the Maya.
We lose a Q-Bow to a Dutch MDI (-2hp). A Dutch LB steps forward.
Tiwan: Spear=> Q-Bow

9. 1559 AD – At the gates of Tiwan: Q-Bow flawlessly defeats Dutch MDI.
Elite Q-Bow enslaves a Dutch LB.
Step across the river towards Machu and find two Spanish LB. Enslave one with a Q-bow. We’ll lose him next turn.

The Dutch will talk to us, but want all our workers, 2gpt & all our cash.

We’re at 1548 culture in Cuzco.

IBT – Lose the Q-Bow to a Spanish LB as expected.
Cuzco: Q-Bow=> Q-Bow

10. 1560 AD – Lose a Q-Bow attacking the Spanish LB.

After action: I’d keep building Q-Bows and start going on the offensive. We will probably have to settle for a sacrificial culture win.

Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RBC14G,_1560_AD.SAV

Sorry, please skip me...my computer crapped out on me. Tough turns Bugsy!

I'll pick up tomorrow and try to play tomorrow. Otherwise Sunday

I did not know Q-bows could enslave. Agree on the Q-bows now, we need to be able to fight off the evil white men.

And for the lurkers, this is almost a schoolbook example of why you should fold to Ais, even when they are far away. Things are likely to get hairy when they far away AI buys in the AI closest to you.

Of course in this case, we would have lost a building in our capitol, so it was a bad day whichever decision we would have taken. I do not know of any one who would have spotted the demands in time to lower research away from deficit spending.

1560
The good news....we have zero corruption
The bad news...80 years to go and 79 years for 4000 culture without sacrifice.
Put Cuszco on starvation rations for gold and shields (2 years at -1fpt with five in the store)

Spanish Conquistador attacks Tiwa and impales on spear..whew!

William of Orange comes calling...wanting all our workers and 10g for a Peace Treaty. I'll get back to you, Will. His farewell message is delivered by an advancing MDI.

There are two Spanish longbows outside Tiwa, not reachable.

1-1561
Move a native worker to Tiwa to merge for one more shield.
Cuzco goes off starvation diet.
Portugal declares war on Maya.

Another Spaniard and his dog die at Tiwa.

Maya and England are at peace.

2-1562
Elite Q-bow at Tiwa kills Spanish longbow and captures another slave.
Isabella wants a peace teaty and all our workers, offers 70g in compensation. That's better..
Kill another Spaniard for another slave.
Monte calls and offers to renew our peace treaty. Income jumps 17gpt. Immediately spend 6 of it to avoid riots in Tiwa.

3-1563
Isabella will take all our slaves for peace and pay 90g. She has just landed some treasure galleons as her treasury has jumped 600g..that's better. I'd really like to have Machu Picchu back.
Henry will talk but he wants all our slaves as well and there is still some years on the alliance with Inca
William's MDI impales on spear at Tiwa

4-1564
Still no movement on peace negotiations with Spain or Portugal. William's offer is decreased by by one slave.
He has a caravel sailing the east coast. Move Q-bow onto mountain.
As there are no bogies within two moves of Tiwa move offensive (2 elite Q's, a vet and scout) force onto mountain above Machu Picchu.
Spain comes calling...she'll take eight slaves but offers no cash.
Dutch caravel sails back north.
Spanish LB emerges from Macchu Pichu

5-1565
Elite Q-bow kills Spanish LB -1hp. Forward movement reveals French musketeer approaching from southwest.

Iroquois and Aztec sign a peace treaty.

Spanish longbow kills Q-bow in jungle outside MP.

Maya come calling...wanting our map and 14g for his..agree.

French musketeer retreats into mountains.

6-1566
Q-bow killed at Macchu Pichu. Second Q-bow whips pike no slave.
No movement in peace negotiations
Netherlands delcares on Maya.
France delcares on Maya
Our GA ends and Tiwa riots

7-1567
Kill another pike at Macchu Pichu, get another slave.

Spanish LB kills Q-bow outside Macchu Pichu.
Retreat to Tiwa for regrouping

8-1568
Rush Q-bows at Tiwa and Cuzco
Put Cuzco back on 2-turn short rations to build gold hoard.
Spain offers peace for 10gpt.
Henry offers peace for 6gpt but there is still 7 years on the alliance with Inca
Francis isn't being reasonable.
Willaim wants 20gpt.
Hiawatha wants 20gpt.

9-1569
Rush Q-bow in Tiwa
There are two Spanish LB's are way to Tiwa and a French musketeer advancing on Cuzco.
Spain's offer for peace goes up to 12gpt.
France comes down to 20gpt.
Henry's at 6 but there is still 6 years on the alliance with Inca
Willie's t 17gpt.

10-1570
Nothing changes.
The slave force is mining a hill outside Cuzco to replace shields lost when GA ended. They are protected from Spanish Conq by spear and Q-bow. And should be done on IT. One tactic not attempted was seeking loans from the Europeans as part of the Treaty negotiations. As long as the slave force is in the capitol they will demand their return for peace. If the slaves are not in the capitol they will accept gpt.

The misjudgement on not caving in to extortion was mine. :blush: :(. I just didn't figure on the rapid involvement of the Europeans.

Look on the bright side. If we survive, we will have lots of slaves we can use to thank the gods with :evil:

I have it.

We are certainly living up to the "Barbaric" moniker that I tagged us with. We need to keep an eye on the European VP totals. If they start getting close, we'll need to start sacrificing slaves.

I am back...sorry for the skip guys. But the good news is that I got a new tower, so hopefully I won't need to worry about such things for a while.

Kiech, if you want, we can slide you in next after Grimjack.

Or you can take it at once. I cannot play until late tonight due to heavy workload.

Grimjack

I can't play till my AM (pacific) if you aren't able by then I will play.

1570, the grand fight.

We are not at war with England, Mayans and Aztecs. Spain is obnoxious with their conquistadores, and we have lost one third of our cities.
Things look rather bleak.
We have seven bowmen, one scout and three spearmen.

IBT: The conquistador scratches one spearman, but is redlined. French offer peace for everything we have. I decline.

1571 I kill one Conquistador and two spanish longbowmen, creating two more workers in the process. There is not much I can do about the Musketeer as long as he stays on the high ground. Likely he will pillage our goldmine this turn :(.
I rush a new spearman in Tiwanu.

IBT: England declare on the Maya. Instead of pillaging our goldmine, the Musketeers decide they want to tray and pillage Cusco, and impale themselves on our spears.

1572 Advance upon Machu Pichu.

IBT: France sends a colonists towards our borders. Portugal manages to send yet another longbow towards our troops.

1573 The longbow is defeated, but I lose a couple of hps of our Bowman.

IBT: The french colonist occupies a river tile, and the loss of trade makes Tiwanaku go into disorder. My apologies for not foreseeing this.

1574 Capture the colonist from the accompanying pikeman without losses as a compensation.
Forces into position for assault on Machu pichu.

IBT: Maya and Iros sign peace. Counter out of Machu pichu destroys the guarding spearman.

1575 We are once again in possession of Machu Pichu. For some reason there is resistance in the city. We also net one slave, and we lost no Bowmen.
I speak a bit with the embassador of Isabella, and after showing him our sacrifical pits, he agrees to it being reasonable to have peace between our nations if they pay us 80 gold.
Peace with Spain.

IBT: Aztecs stop the alliance against Portugal. Good, gives us more freedom.

1576 Boring turn with movement only. I had hoped to capture another french colonist, but they hightailed it out of here.

IBT: A portugese colonist approaches though. Resistance ends, and I rush a settler. We need to get some iron so we can get better defenders.

1577 More movement as our Bowmen heals. I am moving towards the small french city of Sault Ste Marie, hoping it does not have any Musketeers.

IBT: Machu pichu makes a settler and starts a barracks. I would have liked a temple for some cultural expansion, and it may be that temple is more important. Next leader will have to decide.

1578 The long march begins. If Ste Marie is full of Musketeers, then we could turn south, and see what we could do against Fort Hollandia. Thats another nation at war.

IBT: Maya and Spain signs peace.

1579 in the north I try to herd the Portugese colosnist out of the mountains and onto the plains, there to hopefully be an easy prey for our Bowmen.

IBT: Aztecs declare on Maya. Could not lure the Portugese to enter the plains, will have to heard him back to the hills, and hope two Bowmen is enough to grab the colonist.

1580 Troops are in position for assault on Ste Marie, and I make the decision to snag an extra turn, since I built this up for a conclusion. No one said it was strict ten turns, did they :p
Sacrifice two food in Cusco for one turn faster growth in Tiwanaku.

IBT: Tenochtitlan completes Kukulcan.

1581 In the north I lose one of our Bowmen, but the second secures the price, another forty culture.
At St Marie, we lose two bowmen attacking the two pikemen defending it, but we secure another two workers when we raze that city.
I will hand over the game here.
I have left the decision on the settler in the south, if he should settle on top of the iron, or where he stands.
France is somewhat willing to discuss peace, but we would still need to pay him money for it. I think you should take the peace deal anyway, and then collect another seven bowmen and march against Fort Hollandia.

Game is attached.
Grimjack

Also, should you decide to go to peace with France, do not pay him anything other than gpt. Then we have not lost so much when he decides to break the peace next time.

I would have it as a priority to gain peace with all or most of the European powers, as we are very weak compared to them, and that makes it easy for them to buy in other european powers.

Too bada we missed getting Trebuchets for our Education back then. Otherwise we would have had a much better defensive position. ( Not on the offense, as the jungles/mountains makes it hard to cart them there wheeled thingies. )

Grimjack - Brought the game back from the brink
Kiech - Up
Bugs - On deck
Bede

Got it and LOL...I think you played this in 1.22 Grimmy...

Just to make sure I didn't mess up my computer when switching towers, I started up a game, played and saved it, it reloads fine. Then I tried to load an old game up and got the same error message as when trying to boot up your save.

No worries, though. Loading 1.22 now.

1.22 upgrade confirmed.

Now the question is, should we proceed, or throw out Grimjacks turns? From what I recall, all of you are playing other games in 1.22, and I would prefer to stay in 1.22 so I can start the GOTM...but then, does that throw us out of the competition? Scientists are giving out 3 beakers.

Here is what I am doing. I am going to ask our GM the question, and play out the turns. If he says no, then well, then we have to replay the turns anyways.

There isn't a competition, so that isn't an issue. I've set up a 1.22 load on my machine so that shouldn't be a problem for me. GrimJack obviously has 1.22 already. Bede?

Still struggling with 1.22 but should have it solved by the time the game comes round again.

@Bugs
Any pointers on setting up dual loads other than copying the whole shooting match?

I asked that question over in the COTM thread. There were several opinions expressed, but nothing I could get to work for me. I took the Conquests folder renamed it "Conquests 1.15" then copied it to the same location, but named "Conquests 1.22" I then ran the patch just on the 1.22 folder.

Preflight check:

Evil wars afoot. The Mayans want to give us 40 culture. Research is going nowhere, and no one is willing to trade. Cuzco is stuck building Qbowmen instead of culture. :eek: We have a small force in the Amazon that I think should take out one of the Dutch forts. We have no money to rush anything. My new keyboard doesn't have the Windows button, so I can't open the calculator, I get out a real one.

Culture: 19 slaves = 760 culture.
2330 + 760 = 3090
4000 - 2810 = 910
910 / 31 cpt = 30 more turns...we are on turn 91!!!

Ending the wars are quite expensive right now, at 10 gpt.

T1 - The settler is on a good of a spot as he can. The people want to call the new town something I can't pronounce, so we settle Ironville instead. That forest is going to stunt our growth, so we need choppers there soon. I decide that the Qbowman isn't needed there, and he starts moving into position for the eventual attack on Fort Hollandia.

Moving new slaves to the heartland. The Portugeese colonist on our mountain looks like he wants to join us, but his pikeman slaver is keeping us at bay...just wait till he steps off of that mountain....

We need another city, so Tiwanaku changes to a settler.

IBT - Dutch and Portugese settler pairs are moving to settle the same spot. The Dutch will have it next turn...and a Dutch Longbowman moves towards Machu Picchu
Cuzco Qbowman > Cathedral
Clearing and mining complete.

T2 - Our Qbowman gets itchy and attacks the Dutch settler pair, getting us the colonist! (not fortified on the grass...how to resist?) The new slave heads toward home.

Not sure why there is a slave all by himself on the mountain, the game will be over before he can make a road. I move him towards Tiwanaku. Our new Qbowman moves there as well, in case the Dutch try anything. The other Qbowmen fortify to heal up. A road is started to connect Ironville.

IBT - Maya and Iroquois sign peace. Aztecks offer TM for TM, with no better deal, we take it. The portugal settler pair moves towards our capital...they probably want to settle the same spot I am going for, the hill with the lake. The Dutch LB moves in to strike Machu.

T3 - I decide to follow the settler pair. Our Qbowman attacks the LB and redlines, and doesn't produce a slave...and we start the road to the iron.

IBT - Portugal and Maya sign peace. A Dutch longbowman gets off a boat and heads towards Irontown from the west.

T4 - Rush a Qbowman in Ironville to deal with the threat.

IBT - Maya finish Temple of the Sun. Another Dutch LB moves to threaten our new slaves. France wants to settle the same spot, but I must ignore them for now.

T5 - Wounded Qbowman takes on LB...no slave. Ironville Qbowman takes on LB on mountain...no slave. Iron connected, mining begun. Task force almost ready to take on the evil Dutch Fort.

IBT - Dutch and Maya sign peace. Tia Settler > Spear. Another LB pops out of Dutch fort.

T6 - Everyone thats going is healed. I decide to wait to have a better chance of killing the LB. Partial rush Cathedral.

IBT - England and Maya sign peace. Portugeese pair seem to be lost. Anticipated French city founded.

T7 - Take chance that Dutch won't hit my Qbowmen.

IBT - Nope, lost a Qbowman. Another LB pops up as well. Lost Portugeese pair walk into grasslands.

T8 - Take down both LB, NO SLAVES!!! Settler moves to new home. Partial rush Cathedral again. Iroq wants everything for peace...no. Silverlake founded. Pull troops back, with only wounded Qbowmen, I don't think I can win anymore. The unfortified pike on my grass is a different story...colonist but no slave. :mad: Starving Cuzco to get cathedral in 3

IBT - France and Portugal pop LB and move our way.

T9 - Well, I was going to leave France be, but I think that LB secretly wants to join our team...nope, and I lose a vet Qbowman in the process. HEH.

IBT - Portugeese LB advancing on Cuzco.

T10 - Silverlake connected. The battle for Sault Ste. Mario Begins. I get a slave, but it doesn't fall. I lose one Qbowman, and the other 2 are hurt. They have a LB defending it now. The worker stays where he is.

Postgame:

I got us a bit more culture, and another nice town. But military still isn't what it should be, and peace is a bit cheaper now, except with the Portugeese. There are 2 spears ready to pop, but you can change those to Qbowmen or MI if you wish. The Cathedral is done next turn, or, you CAN rush it, and go for the Uni in 3 to get more culture per turn. Portugal seems to be in the lead for victory points, but are not halfway there yet.

Quick culture count:
22 slaves = 880
2540 + 880 = 3420
4000 - 3420 = 580
580 / 31cpt = 19 turns.

With Cathedral now: 17 turns
With Uni later: 17 turns

So the Cathedral is the way to go, I guess, unless you can get some mad money from someone...and they weren't interested in any loans.

Bugsy: up!

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uplohttp://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Rbc1591.savads7/Rbc1591.sav)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Inca1591.jpg

I've got it. Have we ever had our Golden Age?

I haven't had an SG for over ten days. Now I'm suddenly up in five. Dispatches by Sunday.

Heh, I don't think we have. The scout in Cuzco can kill the Portugeese LB and kick it off.

I must apologize for my sloppiness in using the wrong computer to play my turns. It is bugging me that I missed such an obvious ploy.

Looks like a good turn Kiech. When the french city falls, ( unless they rush a pike ), the French is probably ready for peace.

If we want to go against the Portugese, it is the two cities north of us that would make them come crawling to our sacrifical altar.

Also, take note that while we are at war, building Q-bows is almost as good, or even better than building culture.

And finally, we have had our GA. One of our scouts pulled it off I believe. ( Or am I messing up my games again :confused: )

I was curious as to whether or not you guys had a GA yet.
So I went reading thru the thread and found this.....

1546 Our lone scout pillage a road for the Mayans.

IBT: And then it happens, and surprises me greatly. OUr pillaging Chasqui repulses a mayan archer, and we are in the Golden Age.

Pre-flight – (Playing in 1.22) Everyone wants money for peace. The Dutch want the least amount.

Culture check: Cuzco has 2540 culture. Is making 31 cpt. We have 22 slaves available, at 40C each that is 880. Total potential culture 3420. Cathedral completes next turn. That will put us at 34 cpt. So that puts us at 18 turns from victory with the slaves.

One things we’ll have to watch: Portugal is at 16165 VP.

IBT – A Portuguese LB approaches from the north.
Cuzco: Cathedral=>QBow (A university will take 17 turns to complete)
Tiwan, Macchu: Spear=> QBow

1. 1592 AD – I move some spears into the mountains around Cuzco to try and make the Portuguese LB move onto flatland. Since I don’t think we’ve had our GA, yet, we’re going to try a spark one.

Pull our wounded troops back from Sault Ste. Marie.

IBT – The Portuguese LB attacks our spear on the mountain and is redlined in killing him. The Dutch and the French send LBs towards our troops near Sault Ste. Marie.

2. 1593 AD – Attack the LB with a QBow, no loss, but no enslavement.

The price of peace with Portugal has dropped 3 gpt. We can get peace with the Dutch for 60G.

IBT – Ironville: Rax=>MDI

3. 1594 AD – I attack a Dutch LB with a 2/4 QBow hoping to wound the Dutchman for my Chasqui to kill, I enslave him instead and promote to elite.

Peace with William drops to 40G.

Try the same trick on a French LB, and this time our QBow takes one HP off the LB. Attack with the Chaqui and win, but no GA, and no enslavement. So much for that idea.

With 23 slaves we could now win in 13 turns.

IBT – No counters, Cuzco: Qbow=>Qbow

4. 1595 AD – Kill a French LB. Maneuvering towards Fort Hollandia.

IBT – William asks us to pay the 40G for peace. Stuff it. A French pike approaches from the north.
Tiwan: QBow=>QBow
5. 1596 AD – Lose a QBow killing a Dutch LB.

Move a QBow next to Fort Hollandia. William will give us peace straight up now.

Move a QBow north from Cuzco to meet the French pike.

IBT – A LB out of Ft Hollandia kills our QBow.
Macchu: QBow=>QBow

6. 1597 AD – Kill a French LB, and enslave another.

Now William wants 20G for peace. :rolleyes: Should have taken the deal when I could.

France wants 160G for peace. Notice that there is a French MDI that has approached Silverlake from the south. Pull our slaves back. Change the build to a Spear and rush for 16G. Move the new QBow from Machu to Silverlake. I want that French MDI to move to flat land. He could move towards the city obliquely on the mountains. Move the spear from Irontown to one mountain and from Silverlake to the other. If he steps towards the city, I’ll have a QBow to take him out.

Short rush a Q-Bow in Tiwan, and a MDI in Ironville.

IBT – Isabella want to sell us her TM for TM & 6G. I’ll skip it thanks.
Instead the MDI attacks and dies to Irontown spear, losing only one hp.
Cuzco, Tiwan: QBow=>Qbow
Silverlake: Spear=> Rax

7. 1598 AD – Crisis is passed. Reposition defenders. Send another QBow to hunt the French Pike. Move three QBow next to Fort Hollandia.

William is now back to calling for an straight peace treaty. I take it this time. So now we’re only at war with the French, the Portuguese, and the Iroquois.

IBT - The Maya want to sell us their WM for WM & 24G. We really don’t care about the outside world. William demands we leave the grounds of Fort Hollandia, so we get kicked out.

8. 1599 AD – Move two QBows next to Sault Ste. Marie. France’s price for peace has dropped from 160G to 60G.

Portugal & Iroquois are still unreasonable for peace.

IBT – The French drop off five units (4 musketeers & an MDI) near Silverlake.
Ironville: MDI=>QBow
9. 1600 AD – Decide we’ll attack Sault Ste. Marie and then sue for peace with the French.

Our first QBow enslaves the pike defending Sault Ste. Marie, promotes, and the city is ours. Francis will now give us peace straight up. I take it.

Time to get Portugal to the table. Their price has dropped to 160G.

IBT – Lose a QBow on a mountain to a Portuguese LB.
Cuzco< Tiwan: QBow=>QBow
Machu riots :wallbang: Hire a taxman.
The Dutch write Luther’s 95 Theses.

10. 16101 AD – Kill the murderous LB.

After Action: We can probably put some pressure on the Portuguese, I’d keep some units back in case of a landing in our rear.

Cuzco’s culture is at 2880, earning 34 cpt. Without any sacrifices, that puts cultural victory in 33 turns. There are 39 turns left in the game, so if we want to hang on to get the pure cultural win, it is do-able. We’re going to have to watch Portugal’s VP total. We presently have 26 slaves. That translates to 1040 culture. So we can win any time after 1604 AD.

Portugal is the VP point leader with 24430. Henry still wants 160G for peace. The reason why Portugal is suddenly doing well, is that their capitol is now Madeira, shorter distance for treasure to travel. A dogpile may slow that down, but we don’t have any embassies with the Europeans and MAs with the American civs will be very expensive.

Grimjack – On Deck
Kiech
Bugsy – Just played
Bede- Up

Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RBC14G,_1601_AD.SAV

Playing now.

Will follow Bugsy's plan.

Oh the anticipation!

Portugal gained 8000 treasure point plus a few battle points in two turns!!!

We are still one year away from sacrificing any workers.....

They may land a treasure ship on the interturn....

Don't change that dial!! Tape at eleven!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RBC14G.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RBC14G_003.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RBC14G_005.jpg

LOL, we weren't last! Woot!

0-1601
Priests start counting. Portugal is accumulating 825vpt so has 12 years left to 35,000VP. We are 33 years from 4000 without sacrificing our slaves. I'm afraid blood will flow from our priests' knives unless something happens to slow Henry down and the shorter distance from S America to Madeira means his pace of treasure delivery will only pick up. Involving him in a war with anybody would probably increase his pace rather than slow it down if he is victorious in battle. Opening embassies with the Europeans to find out the state of play in Europe will cost us our entire treasury and then some,,,

Henry has two sources of treasure that I can see... spices at Porto Novo and gems at Sao Vincente. Each spice delivery is worth 1000 VP every ten turns and gems delivery is worth 1000Vp every five. So if he gets one spice and two gems in ten turns that's 300 per turn and he is racking up 825, so where is the extra 500 coming from. There is a gold mine at Belem NE of Ilheus which is one treasure every three, so that pretty much accounts for that. His farthest source of treasure is no more than 10 turns from Madiera and the closest is only two or three if he is shipping in galleons. The big risk is that he is stockpiling treasures in Rio or Sao Paulo for transhipment to Madeira.

I am going to try a pillaging raid on Belem for the gold mine and Sao Vincente for the gems. WIth that in mind short rush a Chasqui and partial rush another. Maya and Aztecs would gladly lend us money but neither have any.

Portugese are building Shakepseare's Theatre.

1-1602
Move Q-bows and Chasquis north towards Belem

Portugal has gained 4000 treasure points!!! and now stands at 28430. Wake up the slaves and head them to Cuzco. It is going to take 4 turns to get them back there. We have 2914 needing 1086 to win

Portugese treasure ship leaves Belem.

2-1603
Bowmen and scouts move north. Bowman occupies gold mountain above Belem

Aztec and Maya sign a Peace treaty.

French start Newton U

3-1604
Cut Portugese gold road at Belem

4-1605
Portugese land another treasure galleon and win a battle somewhere and now stand at 32730. One more treasure ship and it is game over.

It is going to take 25 sacrifices to put us at 4000. There 19 victims in Cuzco now and 6 available next turn.

Altar is being decorated and knives honed. Priests are practicing the killing stroke and being celibate to conserve their strength. Virgins preparing garlands and practicing the dances.

Bede takes a shot of mate, lights a cigarette and goes for a long walk...

5-1606
Portugese land another treasure ship and pick up another 2000 points for 34730.

Virgins and victims dance to the altars where the priests are waiting...

The sacrifice of 24 slaves begin and screams of terror fill the valley at Cuzco.

Great job Bede, everyone! We were definatley on 'borrowed time' those last few turns, as a pirating Portugal could have ended the game a little sooner. Comming from the 'worst' civ to grab the win is awesome!

Oh, do you have the final save, Bede?

Post the save tomorrow early. Going to wash the blood off the altar now.

Great game folks. Kudos to Bede for keeping such a close watch on the Portugese score.

That was a very interesting game team! Bede great job watching the Portuguese!

Slit twenty-four throats and watch the virgins dance....

We are some barbaric Incas aren't we! :devil2:

:crazyeye: Excellent game! LOL!

:spear:

Here's how NOT to win with the Inca:

http://oregonstate.edu/~chambchr/failedinca.jpg

Too bad there's a timelimit, I wouldn't mind getting some rubber, kicking the Europeans off my land, and eventually sailing across to Europe.