The year is 2300 AD, and the fledgling Klackon empire is poised to take to the stars. Other, similar empires are taking shape even as they launch their first colony ship. Only one race will emerge leader of this new era, and the Klackons are determined to be those leaders, a fact that causes the other races to view them as a menace to their societies... and rightfully so.

It is time for all Klackons to claim their place in history!

Parameters:
Map size: Medium
Difficulty: Impossible
Race: Klackons
Years per turn: 10 (exceptions listed below)

Tentative Roster - please confirm by posting to this thread!

Justus_II <== UP NOW (20 turns 1st round only)
Erick the Red <== On Deck (20 turns 1st round only)
Patroclus (15 turns 1st round only)
Selentine (15 turns 1st round only)
JMB
Zed

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/rbo-sg2-2300ad-map1.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/rbo-sg2-2300ad-map2.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/rbo-sg2-2300ad.zip

Tentative Roster - please confirm by posting to this thread!

Present. Why are we over here anyway?

Regardless, thanks for organizing and for choosing red.

Selentine

Why are we over here anyway?

Three reasons:

1) CFC upload server allows images and saved games to be stored on their webspace, facilitating SG play in a way not duplicated elsewhere.

2) Realms Beyond has a long running presence here at CFC, where our succession games are welcomed as a community asset, rather than viewed as a burden or an imposition.

3) The audience is larger. More people will lurk the thread and read about the results. This may attract new players to other RB activities, including the Imperial tournament.


- Sirian

Checking in, and I'm up! I won't be able to get to it until tomorrow night. Looks like we may have a couple choices for our colony ship? ;)

Checking in. I'll be back on Thursday if the game actually gets to me by then...

JMB

Present and ready to go.

Present and accounted for.

This is my first Impossible attempt in years, so hopefully the (re)learning process won’t be too painful. At least the Klackons are a good race to play, their production bonus really helps in getting new colonies up off the ground, and unlike, say, the Mrrshan, don’t start out with natural enemies. (Yes, I re-read the racial profile from Sirian’s site). ;)

Looking at the starting map, it seems like we have a lot of yellow stars nearby, at medium ranges. A cluster to the west and one to the north make it likely we have at least 2 rivals, maybe more, that we should run into soon. At least there aren’t any behind us, so we should have a peaceful backyard. The downside is the backyard’s not that big, only 3 stars, and we can’t reach any of them for a while. :( There are two stars in immediate settling range, both at range 2, and both Green stars. But it looks like one would put us in range of a third planet, while I don’t think the other would. Here’s my Dotmap:

I hope this isn't too hard to follow, I wanted the map embedded in the post, but now I have to split it into two posts :p
Systems A and B are the two at range 2. By my rough calculations (using a printscreen map and a ruler), I think System A will put System C in range, and maybe D, but probably just C. C should put D in range, though. E is a question mark, it’s only range 5, so it seems getting A or B should put it in range, but looking closely, I think it’ll still be range 4 from either. Regardless, A will open the road to C and D, whereas B doesn’t seem to open anything new, so that’ll be where I send the colony ship. If A isn’t habitable, I can always send it to B, only 1 turn lost.

I had an alternate idea, to send a scout to A, and the colony to B. IIRC, I read that the scouting reports go in system order from West to East, Top to bottom, so even though they would arrive the same turn, I would be able to see the report on A before deciding whether to settle on B. But, I think even if B is better than A, I would choose A for the range extension unless it is a real rock. Therefore, this plan would cost us a turn in the most likely scenario, only to save us a turn in the worst-case scenario (B habitable, A not). Besides, I think I have more pressing needs for the initial scouts.

On the map, I have drawn green circles at (approximately) radius 3 from Kholdan, and the nearest yellows. You can see C and D are not in initial settling range from any of our prospective rivals, but would be in their scouting range. E is in colony range from the nearest yellow to the north, if someone starts there. So, I want to get scouts to those planets as soon as possible. C and D both appear to be about equidistant from us and the nearest yellow, so if I want to beat the AI there, I have to head out the first turn. E is closer to the other yellow, so if someone does start there, I can’t beat them, but I do want to get there quick. The backyard planets can wait a few turns. So I am going to send our initial 2 scouts to C and D, then build 2 new Scout 1’s for E and A the first turn, and wait a couple turns to build some more.

OK, enough of the pre-game show, time for kickoff!

2300 Scouts head to C, D. Colony to System A. Build 2 Scout 1’s, and 2.7 factories.

2301 Two new scouts head to systems B and E. Full factory production.

2302 Well, you win some and you lose some. Our colony ship arrives at Talas (system A). Good news is it’s Rich, bad news is it’s Tundra. Shift the colony ship over to system B, which will take 2 turns. Oh, well, we’re no worse off than if we had waited for the scouts to get there first.

2303 Our scout arrives at system B a turn ahead of the colony ship, and discovers Volantis, an Arid 70. That’ll work! Send the scout on to white star at the east edge.
IBT: We colonize Volantis.

2304 Scout finds Gorra at system C, an Ultra-Rich Toxic 40. It’s at range 4, but would have been range 3 to Talas, and will put D within range 3, so at least that part of the pre-game analysis was correct, even if it’s academic for now. ;) Time to shift people to the new colony. Kholdan just now hit 51, since we only started with 40. I run the numbers through Charis’ Max Growth formula, and come up with 20, but I don’t really want to take Kholdan below 1/3, so I fudge it and send 18. Also set Kholdan to kick out 5 more scouts, to cover all remaining planets in range.

2305 Scouts find Laan, a Desert 45, at system D (range 4). New scouts head out, two to blockade at Talas and Volantis, two to the south, and one to system E to relieve that scout, who can now reach the first Yellow to the north.

2306 Scout arrives at system E, which is Firma, another Rich, this time a Minimal 35. A habitable Rich this early is definitely a Good Thing! It’s also at Range 4. I’m sensing a pattern here. It’s obvious we can’t expand without better range tech, or Tundra, which is a second tier tech, so although it’s early, I think it’s time to get started on research.

The colonists have arrived at Volantis, which is now at 19 production. That should be enough to get it going. I divide it among Construction, Planetology, and Propulsion. We’re excellent at Construction, so hopefully we can pick up a cheap clean-up or factory tech quick. Planetology could get us cleanup or terraforming, and also open up the next tier so we know if we have tundra. Finally, propulsion is our poor area, but at least one of the range techs will be there, and that will get us going. The other three areas offer no immediate benefits, and since Volantis will be our research provider for a while, I’d rather focus on what we need right now.
IBT: Drum Roll Please…
Construction: Industrial Tech 9 (210rp) or Waste 80% (600).
Planetology: Terraforming +10 (160) or Barren (360).
Propulsion: Range 4 (450).
My choices are in bold, with the base research cost listed. The two Construction techs were both useful, but Tech 9 is cheaper, and we are definitely in the building phase, so I gave it the nod.

2307 Send the scout from E north to the Yellow. I am going to postpone factories on Volantis and devote it entirely to research, while still building up Kholdan, so it will be ready to crank out colony ships when the tech comes in. It will hurt Volantis in the short run, but with proportionally more of our production coming from our people, rather than factories, it shouldn’t be too bad, and the Industrial 9 will help when it is time to catch up. I divide our abundant research effort, with 50% toward Range 4, and the rest split between the other two.

2308 Scouts find Helos, a Minimal 30, at the white on the east edge.

2309 Two scouts report in, finding Vox, a Desert 35, at the yellow north of Firma, and Imra, an Inferno 10 at the green to the south.

2310 Nothing happens. Well, I guess my paranoia about getting our scouts out to beat rivals from the nearby yellows was unfounded, but better safe than sorry. I haven’t seen any sign of intelligent life out there.

2311 More nothing.

2312 Scout discovers Celtis, an Ultra-Poor Steppe 50 at the red to the NE. I also get the MAX sign on Kholdan’s slider. Still a ways to go, but we are passing the 2 factory/person point. I back off on factory construction a little, putting an extra 30 bc into research, so we can speed up our techs. Kholdan will still build enough factories to keep up with population growth.

2313 What’s that? A blue scout near Vox? Must just be a UFO.

2314 Nope, it’s for real, and it’s the Sakkra. Our brave unarmed scout chases their cowardly unarmed scout away from Vox. Well, at least the Sakkra usually make decent neighbors. We definitely need to push north quickly, though.

2315 Back to nothing.

2316 Techs are getting into the low percentages…

2317 Waiting…
IBT: Finally, we have Range 4! [dance] Our choices now are Nuclear Engines (Warp 2) or Inertial Stabilizer, I take the Engines first. The problem is no Range 6, which we need to get the systems to the S and E. :(

2318 Going into the tech screen, I reduce the percentage on propulsion, boosting our research on the other two. I originally thought about opening all the areas, but I’ll leave that for the next player to choose those techs. Start Kholdan on a colony ship, it has a net production of 140, so it shows 5 turns, but with population growth should bring it down to 4.
IBT: We discover Terraforming +10, our choices now are Dead Environment or Death Spores, such a lively choice! I take the Enviro tech, as it will open the Tundra world.

2319 I manually set both planets to start gradual terraforming, making sure to keep the colony ship completing in 3 turns. Balance tech a little more, hopefully we can get Industrial 9 before I turn over the reigns. I also push a couple of our scouts out to newly in-range systems.
IBT: Sakkras show up at Vox again, this time with an equally cowardly Colony Ship, and our brave scout again chases them off, but sends a message: Hurry!

2320 Well, our tech didn’t come in, but it’s at 33%, so it should be any turn now.

As I said, I’ll leave it for the next Great Leader to rebalance techs and open the three remaining areas. We could also back off tech (don’t stop it entirely) and get Volantis building factories, especially once Industrial 9 is done.

Colony ship is due in 2, I would humbly recommend colonizing Firma, the Rich world to the north, but just a suggestion. ;) Our only choices are Firma and Laan, the desert 45. Firma will also let us reach Vox, but that’s about it until we get Range 7. Of course, Firma, Laan, and Vox should open some new systems to scout, so hopefully we can keep expanding N and W.

Check the scouts, I sent a couple out from close to home. We may need to build a few more to take up blocking positions, and relieve the forward ones so they can push out once Firma is settled.

Kholdan is at 76 pop, 153 factories, and terraforming has bumped the max up to 102, should take about 4 more turns. Volantis has 51 of 72 pop, but no factories yet.

Here’s the map of our fledling star empire, and what we know of our Rich neighborhood. This should be a very good location, once we get the techs we need to access the other rich planets. I have to believe there is someone to our W, but no sign of them yet, once Laan is colonized, we should be able to scout further that way.

Well, I've read that attached pictures won't show up, if you have another attachment to the same message, and I can't figure out how to insert a picture from the upload server in this new version yet, so here's the save, and roster:

Justus_II <== Just Played (20 turns 1st round only)
Erick the Red <== UP NOW (20 turns 1st round only)
Patroclus <== On deck (15 turns 1st round only)
Selentine (15 turns 1st round only)
JMB
Zed

The upload function works exactly as it did previously, just you can only upload one thing at a time. I include images in my posts with a _img_ tag and links with a _url_ tag (with square brackets instead of underscores.) As you can see for the first post in this thread I put 2 images and a link all in the same post, all located where I wanted in the post.

I was able to upload the image file, but when I tried to use the 'insert image' button on the reply screen, nothing happened. Before, it would allow me to paste the shortcut into a dialog box, and then it formated the html tags for me. I guess I'll have to (gasp) do the img tags manually??? ;) I'm sure I'll figure it out, but this morning I was at work and in a hurry, so one per post seemed the quickest solution. :)

Got it, and plan to play tonight.

I haven't used these boards before, so I may fumble around a bit before I get images and the save file uploaded though. :crazyeye:

To start with I review the tech situation. It's nice that we picked up terraforming +10. Getting Controlled Dead will allow us to colonize a rich planet, and opens up the possiblity for better waste reduction or terraforming, so seems quite useful. It's unfortunate that we don't have quick access to longer range, but we will have to make do. Reduced industrial waste will be useful.

The highest priority for now is claiming systems and building factories. I will concentrate on that and only spend a limited amount on research, which I will mostly split between construction and planetology.

So to start I switch the research sliders toward terraforming, and reduce research expenditure. I will make a few more scouts, as some more planets will be bought in range as systems are colonized, and then Volantis will start making factories. I also set ship relocation from Kholdan to Volantis to speed the colony ship on it's way.

2321 Improved Industrial Tech 8 and Duralloy Armor are the new construction choices. I select reduced industrial waste 80%. The colony ship is completed, and is speeding towards the rich planet. Kholdan can produce the next ship in 4 turns, with some change left over for research. This lets Volantis concentrate on factory production.

2322 The Silicoid empire has grown in strengh. Already they control 7 systems. Escalon in the bottom right corner of the map is revealed to be a dead planet.

2323 My scout arrives at Drakha, and meets a Psilon Colony ship. It's a nice terran planet. Too bad it is out of range. The Sakkra send another colony ship to Vox.

2325 Census Time! Klackon, Sakkra, Silicoid, Mrshann, Alkari, Psilon. Kholdan completes it's second colony ship.

2326 Kholdan starts a third colony ship, but I'm not sure if it will have an immediate destination. Once Laan is settled a new system will be in range, but I haven't scouted it yet. Vox is also a possible choice, but I fear the Sakkra will poach it from us. Kholdan diverts some resources towards factory production, and sends some colonists to Volantis as a stopover to Firma. I want the rich planet stood up quickly.

2327 As Firma is settled we meet the Sakkra. They agree to a trade agreement for 50 BC a year.

2329 Endoria is revealed to be a Steppe planet with 60 max. To bad it is in range 4 of the Sakkra. The Psilons send another colony ship to Drakka.

2330 Hmm. Laan is settled. A scout arrives at Denubius, and it's an aritfacts planet with a max population of 90. Yay! Then we make contact with the Psilons and Silicoids, and I see that Denubius is controlled by the Silicoids. Boo!

2331 The Psilons are erratic, and have an alliance with the Silicoids. The Silicoids still have 7 systems, so it seems clear they are blocked to the upper left by the Mrshann and Alkari. The Psilons will trade 75 a year, and the Silicoids will trade 50.

2332 Sakkra send a scout to Celtsi. Kholdan has completed a colony ship, which is on it's way to Vox. There are no more systems in range. Kholdan is now ready to start devoting the majority of it's production to research, so I shift the sliders to investigate the remaining fields.

The Sakkra send a colony ship to Laan. The only computer choice is the deep space scanner. Class II shields are the only shield options. Weapons offer choice between Hyper-V Rockets and gatling lasers. I select the rockets.

The next several turns are quiet. Just building factories and research.

2334 Empire Production report: Sakkra, Klackon, Mrrshan, Silicoid, Psilon, Akari

2338 Population Census: Klackon, Mrrshan, Sakkra, Silicoid, Psilon, Alkari. The Psilons throw a hissy fit at the results and declare war.

2339 I check the diplomacy screen, and see the Psilon have alliances with the Sakkra and Silicoid. I dial up the Sakkra and Silicoid and politely point out the their allies the Psilons are erratic jerks. The Silicoid agree to help rid the universe of the Psilon menace.

Also, Reduced Industrial Waste 80% research is completed. I select Duralloy Armor.

I didn't adjust the sliders, leaving that to the next player. A fair amount has been invested in planetology, while the other fields have been running at low levels.

I haven't visited the diplomacy screen recently, aside from asking to declare war against the Psilons. We will have a spy in the Sakkra camp in 4 turns, and 6 turns for the other races, and then we will get a glimps of their technology. The Sakkra have only sent one scout each to Endoria and Celtsi. They also haven't expanded to the north, so I don't know what they are up to. I would expect them to pester us at Vox soon, and I don't think there's much we can do about it.

Firma, the rich planet, is almost maxed out on factories, and just reached maximum population - I sent a lot of colonists to it since it is rich and I wanted to be sure that there is the opportunity to set up missile bases there. Kholdan has just maxed factories as well.

Vox was just colonized, and probably wants some Colonists sent from Laan. I would bounce them through Firma though - if sent directly the Sakkra could send a fleet and then capture the planet before they arrive.

Talas can be claimed one Controlled Dead is researched. In the west the only habitable planet left is Drakka, which is at range 5. Only the Psilons have sent ships in to it since my scout arrived.

To the east are 4 systems at ranges 6 and 7. The Sakkra can claim them all with range 4 steps if they choose. If we can't trade for range 6, then I think the fastest way to get to these is to research propulsion and planetology until we can fit a reserve fuel tanks on a colony ship.

Also I just noticed there there are a couple more systems in Sakkra territory that can be scouted now that Vox is settled, but I didn't leave extra scouts in position to do so - sorry about that.

To the east are 4 systems at ranges 6 and 7. The Sakkra can claim them all with range 4 steps if they choose. If we can't trade for range 6, then I think the fastest way to get to these is to research propulsion and planetology until we can fit a reserve fuel tanks on a colony ship.

All it takes is Duralloy (and TF+10, which we already have) to fit tanks on a colony ship. Prop tech miniaturizes components with high Power requirements, but colony bases have Power=0 so you want Construct tech for a larger hull. Planet tech miniaturizes the colony base, but dead tech + 1st gen Construct won't cut it while Duralloy + 1st gen Planet tech will.

Selentine

Yes, it seems like construction tech is probably our best bet at the moment, unless we can steal some useful tech from the Psilons. If we are at war, we might as well dial up a bit of spying. Of course, with controlled Dead plus both Factories 9 and Waste 80%, that might be enough to get reserve tanks and regular colony bases... I know Dead plus either or won't work, but what about Dead plus both?

I thought propulsion helped fit reserve tanks by reducing the size of the tanks, not the power requirement. I don't remember the breakpoints needed to fit them though, so I could be wrong.

Justus_II (20 turns 1st round only)
Erick the Red <== Just played (20 turns 1st round only)
Patroclus <== UP NOW (15 turns 1st round only)
Selentine <== On deck (15 turns 1st round only)
JMB
Zed

Actually, Reserve Fuel Tanks are in the Construction tree, not in the Propulsion tree.

Got it. :king:

First, agree about spying on Psilons, especially early before their security gets too high.

I know Dead plus either or won't work, but what about Dead plus both?
Well, I'm all wet on this one. Dead + TF+10 gives Planet=9, which is +8 levels or 79% size or 553 for the colony base. 80% alone gives Construct=5, which is +4 or 89% or 445 for the Tanks. Large hull size is 1000 + 20*Construct, or 1100. Power consumption is 100, or 10 retro engines, which are 9 each with just Range 4 (Prop=3). So this is in fact enough, with 12 left over. 80% AND Industry 9 gives Construct=6, which is +5 or 87% or 435, so that's 42 left over.

These are the tech levels shown on the T screen, 80% of the highest achieved (fractions truncated, I think) plus the number (excluding starting techs) learned. Tanks are initially 500 size and colony bases (all types) are 700. Size is then 97% one level above, then 94%, then 92, 89, 87, 84, 82, 79, 77, 75, 73, 71, 69, 67, 65, 63, 61, 60, 58, 56 at 20 above, where I stopped counting.

Power consumption doesn't change, but engines themselves get smaller with Prop advances. Retro engines produce 10, Nuke engines 20, Sub-light 30, etc. So a Mark I requires 20 size + 2 retro engines or 40 at the start of the game but 38 once Range 4 is learned. I don't have a complete spreadsheet but it could be built.

Selentine

So full, you can actually see the bills peeking out of the top. Crisp, green, 100 Billion Credit bills.

Cheddar. Moolah. Benjamins. Dough.

This is a succinct and accurate description of my turns. A fun way to start my first succession game.

Read on:

We have some defense issues. The sakkra have 72 small ships at Vox. With their population growth rate, if they scout any of our colonies they will get all Starship Troopers on our butts. And while we have a minimal trade deal with the lizards, they also have an alliance with the Psilons, who we are at war with.

I think our greatest asset right now is Firma. That will help a lot, but it needs factories. We have no planetary reserve at the moment so I can’t boost it any.

Goals for my turn are:
Build factories and population
Get some defenses up
Get over to at least one eastern edge colony with a LR colony ship

2340:
We need colonists on Vox, but I don’t want to reduce the population of Firma. I’ll do Erick’s suggestion of bouncing through firma (send now, then send from Firma in 3 turns if the coast is clear, just before colonists land.) I sent 12, and ticked up eco to handle waste from transports. Not much else to do, except worry bout our defenses.

If duralloy will let us fit fuel tanks on our colony (I’m not sure but I’ll take your word for it), we should leave half our research on construction.

I design a medium fighter (“Las Fig 1”, 4x small laser, computer, shield, warp 1) but don’t build any yet, keeping Firma on factory building. I won’t be able to get enough in position right away if they come after us immediately, so we might as well max factories.

2341:
Sakkra have a fleet of 12 daemons flying southwest past Laan. Must be using their alliance with the brainiacs. We also can see a psilon colony ship at Denubius.

I notice we were only on one tick spying vs the psilons. If we’re going to try and steal from them we should put more money towards it, but only once our hidden spy gets placed and we see if they have anything worth stealing. I leave it alone.

Firma says MAX on factories. I move sliders to just finish that, with the remainder into Defense; we want at least one base at this planet ASAP, followed by a whole bunch more just like it (eventually).

2342:
Firma’s done with factories. I move down defense to build a base next year, and move the rest to Las Fig 1 building, RELOCing the fighter to Vox. Will be built next year and arrive in 3. I also tweak Kholdan to max population next turn.

2343:
Kholdan maxes population. I transfer the 12 colonists from Firma to Vox as the 12 from Laan are about to arrive. Planetology bulb is nearly full.

2344:
Sakkras now have 106 of their small fighters at Willow. Volantis’ pop has caught up with its factories, so I move some BC from tech to factories to keep everyone employed. We still have 320 RPs going, and I notice the Sakkras alliance with the Psilons has broken.... Psilons are at war with everyone it seems.

2345:
Our first LasFig1 arrives at Vox, with two more en route.

2346: Dead Landings at 3%. Vox’s new population arrives and production starts to take off.

Our spies infiltrate the Sakkras and the Silicoids. Rocks have Deep Space Scanner, Hyper-X Rockets and Gatling Lasers. Sakkras have ECM Jammer Mk1, Duralloy Armor, Class II deflectors, Improved Eco Restoration, Controlled Tundra, Nuclear Engines, and Hyper V Rockets. And 121 of their popcorn fighters on Willow. Oh deary me, this Ruthless Expansionist might just have his eye on our holdings at Vox, donchathink? Well they don’t call this Impossible for nothing...

Well, if we’re at war with the Psilons, we might as well get stealing while the stealing is good. I increase spying 5 ticks, so we might actually be able to get something.

2347: Spy infiltrates the Psilons... they have fewer goodies than the sakkras, but the very nice Personal Deflector Shield and Inertial Stabilizer. I switch our spy to Espionage, and would say take Shield Tech before we take Propulsion Tech, although of course we want both.

2350: Laan is terraformed, so I reduce eco to Clean, and keep building factories. The Sakkra buildup at Willow reaches 176 small fighters; we have 7 LasFig1s there and 3 on the way. Techs are about to pop across the board; construction at 3% and planetology at 15%.

I stop building lasfigs and switch Firma to a Placeholder (a huge ship design we’ll never build), in anticipation of getting Dead Bases and sending a colony to the Rich Tundra immediately.

2352:
BINGO! Dead tech comes in, and Hyper V rockets with it. We have our choice of Controlled Barren (useless), Death Spores (4000), Controlled Inferno (5760), Enhanced Eco (6760), or Controlled Toxic (9000). Hmmm! Toxic would get us the U-Rich planet, but the odds of us getting that tech before the Silicoids swipe the planet are not good. Inferno would only get us the little stub of a planet, while Enhanced Eco would benefit us across the board. I choose the cleanup tech. For weapons, we can choose Gatling Laser (1000), Neutron Pellet Gun (1960), Hyper X rockets (2560), or Ion Cannons (4000). Since we got Hyper V’s, our bases will already have some teeth, so I’m less inclinde to get the rockets. Ion Cannons will be a significant upgrade to our Lasers. I choose to research the Ion Cannon. I also move some research from Planetology to other fields.

I check ship designs. We CAN build a Large ship, with Standard colony base and Reserve fuel tanks as of right now. I design two colony ships: a LR colony (Standard base + fuel tanks) and a Dead Base. The Firma prebuild has enough to build a LR colony in 1 turn, which will go to Endoria; subsequent colony ships can fill in behind. Kholdan will build the Dead Base in 3 turns, which will go to the Rich Tundra nearby (the shorter trip from Kholdan will pay off too, so we only lose 1 turn on the Rich planet.)

I also adjust sliders. Laan has factories exceeding its population so I move some to RPs since Kholdan has stopped research for the moment. Volantis will max population and factories next turn.

2353:
Deep Space Scanner research comes in. I have the choice between ECM II (1960) and Battle Computer III (4000); I take BCIII.

Our first LR colony at Firma is built and sent to Endoria; it will pop another in 2 turns.

The Big Scary Daemon buildup at Willow continues... they have over 200 now, with 19 to arrive next turn, but so far they haven’t sent them our way (KNOCK WOOD). Our 10 LasFig1s probably can't beat them, but maybe a computer and shield will make the difference. There is a fleet of 35 transports heading southwest from Willow; looks like its heading to Denubius, but not totally sure... could be Laan, but did they ever scout there?

IBT: Event, Volantis is now Rich. Thats, uh... our planet?

HOLY CRAP BULLWINKLE! We have Firma (45 Rich), Volantis (80 Rich), we’re about to get Talas (Base 50 Rich, plus terraforming), and we will undoubtedly be getting Gorra (Base 40 Ultra Rich). We are, as they say, In The Money. Making the Tall Dollars. I don't think I've ever seen a production base like this... and we're the production-bonus Klackons on top? The only drawback is our research is down, but Kholdan shall probably be research central.

2354:
I switch Volantis to LR colony building (2 turns from no prebuild!), adjust Kholdan to finish its Dead Base next turn and the rest to research, adjust Laan to build a few factories and the rest to research (this planet will probably be sending people to new homes soon, so theres no point in spending on more factories than we’ll use right away).

IBT: Psilons come calling, asking for a peace treaty. I say no; they can’t really hit us, and they might offer us something. In fact, they do: they offer us 650 BC! I take their money. Do I call off our spies? Are you kidding?

2355:
Our LR colony (Firma) and our Dead Colony (Kholdan) are built. The next leader should send the Dead Base to the Tundra, but its an open question to go for Drakka (Terran 90 to the west) or fill in the colonies to the east. In light of our New Big Rich Planet, and our New Fat Bank Account, I would definitely say go for Drakka -- we should have no trouble holding on to it.

Next leader should:
o Send out our colony ships, first to the rich Tundra and the Terran in the west, followed by the four eligible ones in the east.
o Build at least one base at Vox ASAP and probably start piling up bases everywhere else. Once Shield 2 comes in, our bases will be immune to their laser fighters.
o Get some fleet defense to cover new colonies besides Vox. Our Scout 1 defenses won't hold them off for long. You might also send enough fighters to the Toxic U-Rich to hold off an armed colony ship.
o Check our spies; enemy techs changed a bit that I didn't report. You might also want to alter our psilon espionage efforts.
o Start spending our Planetary Reserve to speed factory building at new colonies.

I'm on a mac, and I think I got the gamefile export and zipping correct... if its not readable let me know and I'll try and fix it ASAP.

I'm on a mac, and I think I got the gamefile export and zipping correct... if its not readable let me know and I'll try and fix it ASAP.
It's readable (got it), but the mixed-case ship names are freaking me out.

I need to get a grasp on the situation before I take my turns, so don't expect it tonight, more likely tomorrow afternoon.

Selentine

I need to get a grasp on the situation before I take my turns, so don't expect it tonight, more likely tomorrow afternoon.

Well, I'm not gonna finish tonight. Did what I intended, will think some more in the morning.

2355: I get a grasp of the situation. The deadbase from Kholdan goes to Talas (Rich). I decided not to spend 8 turns in transit from Firma to Drakka, and sent that ship instead to Helos (m30 on the rim), expecting to hit nuke drive within 4 turns to reach Drakka just as quick. I want to bring the dead40 into range, and the Ultra Poor is of course the lowest priority.

Vox goes to bases, with a couple cliks from reserve. Volantis goes to reserve. Kholdan and Laan go to tech. Firma stays on shipbuilding. I note what the enemies have researched, but don't change the spy allocations yet.

I set Duralloy to 18%, Shield II to 15%, one click on BC3, 5/1, and IC, and the rest on Nuke Drive. Duralloy and Shields both hit! The construction choice is Ind Tech 8 (blah) or Auto Repair (hurray!). The shield choice is Shield 3 or nothin. ARS is 4700 and S3 is 4000, for future reference.

2356: A couple cliks of reserve go to Vox--just enough to get 2 Y in case of emergency. One click on everything else and the rest on Nuke Drive, which gets it to 5%. I want better odds, so I spend the 200+ reserve I generated last turn on tech, which gets Nuke Drive to 8%. It hits!

Given the choice of Stabilizer, Sub-Light, or Range 7, I take Sub-Light (7200). On medium maps I don't pay for range > 6 if I can help it; that's what spies and pointy sticks are for.

2357: I save. My immediate goal behind me, I need to sleep on this before bearing onward.

Raising the scarlet standard high,
Selentine

Not a bad start! ;)

Overnight: Class III + Mark III + Auto-Repair + Heavy Ion Cannon + Sub-Light will make a decent ship. Of those, IC is most urgent because we may need to make smalls. We're getting about 1.5 BC/pop now, and with all these new colonies we'll need to breed workers. They pay off in 13. 5/1 will save us 0.24 BC/fac and costs 6760. For it to pay off in 13 we'd need close to 2000 facs. Nursing it along to get the kickback looks better. I start with 25 cliks on IC and 5 on the rest, with minimal research. When Kholdan goes back to research I'll switch the allocations to 40 and 2.

2357: now that we have Nuke Drive, I design a warp 2 laser-armed LR Colony and relocate one from Firma to Laan. This won't save or cost time, but I don't like being in hyperspace longer than necessary. I also design a warp 2 LR Dead-colony to build on Volantis and send to Escalon in the corner. This is all six designs so I'm constrained for a while.

Kholdan sends 18 pop to Talas and switches to ECO. I send ~300 BC to Talas (it needs 50 to Terraform + 540 for 120 facs, so ~300 is half of that to max it).

2358: Kholdan on 105/110 sends another 14 to Talas. Vox is set to finish its base; Sakkras aren't bothering us, seem to have their hands full already. Firma and Volantis throw some BC into the dock and some into the reserve.

2359: Vox has its base up and switches to facs. A Psilon colship appears next to Drakka (within 1 pc of our scout there) but is in a funny spot that suggests it's just passing by. Kholdan at 104/110 sends 13 more to Talas, that'll be enough.

Land on Endoria

2360: Indeed, the Psilon bypasses Drakka. Vox is at 32pop/40facs now. I send 10 men to Endoria (too far from anywhere else) and set Vox to slowly Tform and build ~3facs/turn with some left for research. I also send ~100 BC reserve to Endoria, will send more if the Sakkras let me keep it.

2361: Nothing.
2362: Nothing. IBT, land on Drakka, Helos, and Escalon. This brings up the first vote! Sakkras 3 for us, Silicoids 5 themselves, Mrrshans 3 abstain, Alkari 2 abstain, Psilons 4 for us, and I throw our 4 votes to the Silicoids.

Oops. I build a LR col on Firma for the stupid ultrapoor, but I forgot to unrelocate. :(

I send men from Kholdan to Escalon first (it's hostile and needs help) and from Firma to Drakka. I also send ~100 BC to the three new colonies.

2363: More pop from Kholdan to Helos. Talas says MAX so I push the ECO to +1 POP.

2364: Talax maxed at 120. I don't bother sending more men; let it fill up naturally. Kholdan switches back to tech; I think we need Ion Cannons more than we need to boost our backyard colonies.

2365: We have plenty of reserve. Another ~100 BC to the new colonies, which are all being left alone while the AIs make war with each other. I leave Endoria building factories. With reserve it could build a base in 4, which is fast enough to raise one if the Sakkras launch at it.

2366: Nothing
2367: I cut down the % spying on the Psilons since our income has increased and our spies aren't hitting anyway (Psilons have BC3 now).

Finally land on UPoor Celtsi. I set it to ECO, since making Klackons raises the prod faster than making facs.

2368: Send some BC to Celtsi. Nothing really happening.
2369: Vox will finish terraforming this turn. Our new colonies are coming along fine and no one is bothering us. I scrap the various colony ship designs and make a Huge Hull so our rich planets don't accidentally produce something useless. In my own games, I like to have 000s of BC in the dock when Auto Repair comes in. Ion Cannon is at 6%.

And hits. I don't know if this is a quirk in MoO or in the VMWare virtual machine, but I have better luck hitting breakthroughs than the %s indicate. Ion Rifle (5760) is the only new choice. I take it since we missed Hand Lasers (and none of our neighbors have it to steal).

I never sent armed blockers to the Toxic URich because with warp2 we can beat the Silicoids there if they target it. And I prefer not to build gunships until absolutely forced because I'd rather build them later with better tech when higher income makes them more affordable too.

I did not encounter any enemy ships or I'd include their specs here. I won't type in enemy techs; they're available on the R screen.

Now I just have to figure out how to attach this savefile...

Selentine

Sounds like good results so far, team! The rest of the galaxy is squabbling, but we're growing up nicely in peaceful builder mode; this bodes well, as it's likely that anyone amassing an SoD will find someone other than us to use it on. So long as we don't neglect military power too badly, our economic power ranking will hopefully be enough to keep the AIs off our backs long enough to build up an overwhelming advantage.

Justus_II
Erick the Red
Patroclus
Selentine
JMB <== UP NOW
Zed <== On Deck

I've got it and will play sometime tonight/tomorrow night.

JMB

0 - Wow, that is quite the reserve we have... (well, much more than I've ever had at this point in the game... :)) I reallocate our research from weapons (>90%) to a more balanced approach with a slight emphasis on improved eco restoration.

1 - Transfer some of our reserve to our recently colonized planets. Other than that, not much.

2 - Not much.

3 - Vox maxes out its factories and I spend some more of our reserves. That's all folks!

4 - Laan maxes its factories and Vox maxes its population.

5 - The High Council convenes. It is us versus the Geodes. The Sakkra and Psilions vote for us (3 and 5 votes), the Alkari vote for the Geodes (1), and the Mrrshans abstain (3 votes). Both the Geodes and us have 6 votes ourselves. Since the Geodes can't win, I vote for them. The Sakkra come calling wanting to upgrade our trade agreement to 300 bc/year. I agree. Not much else. Our huge ship will complete in Volantis in three years and once it gets one year from completion, I'll start redirecting its funds back into our reserve. I'll do likewise as our other huge ships near completion.

6 - Helos maxes out its factories. Nothing else of note.

7 - Not much.

8 - Escalon maxes its factories. Not much else.

9 - Nothing much.

10 - :band: Finally, we make a breakthrough on our spying efforts against the Psilions. We can choose between Computers, Force fields, Planetology, and Weapons. I have looked at the Psilion techs recently, but have forgotten what we could steal from them... I remember propulsion being the best field though. I also remember that the Psilions had Personal Deflector Shields and that was their only Force Field advance that we didn't have. In the Planetology field, I think they had Improved Eco Restoration, but we are over half way there, so I don't think it is a wise choice selecting that one. I don't really remember what they had in terms of Computer or Weapons techs. So, I decide to choose Force Fields and we get Personal Deflector shields. Looking back afterwards, the Psilions had ECM Jammer I, Battle Computer Mark II, Class IV Deflector Shields (a new discovery, I believe...), Improved Eco Restoration, Death Spores, Gatling Lasers, Neutron Blasters, and Fusion Beams (in the Construction and Propulsion fields, they have Reduced Industrial Waste 60%, Deuterium Fuel Cells, Inertial Stabilizers, and Sub-light drives). So, I think I made the right decision...

Notes for the next leader... Our computers, construction, force field, and planetology research are maturing and should pop in the next 5-10 turns. Volantis will complete its huge ship in two turns with just one click into ship building. Talus will complete it in 14 turns with one click into ship building and Firma will complete its ship in 5 turns at the present rate.

Here's the save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/OSG22380.zip

JMB

EDIT: I know I shouldn't be playing after my turns are over ( :nono: :blush: ), but I just pressed enter after turn 10 and two of our Huge Hull ships were produced at Talus and Volantis :(. They shouldn't have been as Volantis wasn't sending any funding towards building its ship, and Talus supposedly had another 14 turns or so. Even decreasing the funding at Talus to none, doesn't prevent the ship from being built (maybe this has something to do with the fact that us having discovered Personal Deflector Shields has reduced the price of the Huge ship but it hadn't updated the sliders yet...) So, I'd strongly advise the next leader to design a new ship so that we don't waste our prebuild (even though we sort of already have as the techs we were interested in haven't popped yet). Sorry about that guys... :(

EDIT 2: Actually, one thing we might be able to do is to redesign the Huge ship to something that costs more than our current design...

0 - Wow, that is quite the reserve we have... (well, much more than I've ever had at this point in the game... :))
Yer welcome. We got lucky with rich planets, and I used them for reserve since that gives us more flexibility with no penalty. We also got a peace dividend from the Psilons. And I only had 80% (40 of 50 clicks) on weapons research--I wanted to make sure you'd be able to make decent warships if needed.

EDIT: I know I shouldn't be playing after my turns are over ( :nono: :blush: ), but I just pressed enter after turn 10 and two of our Huge Hull ships were produced at Talus and Volantis :(. They shouldn't have been as Volantis wasn't sending any funding towards building its ship, and Talus supposedly had another 14 turns or so.
When you stole Personal Deflector Shield, it decreased the cost of the Huge's shield, so however many BC were in the dock already became enough to commission them. Redesigning the huge to utilize the 1100 free space would indeed stop them from launching too soon. And I agree about not launching until the techs we have simmering come through.

Nice job. Looks like you've left things in a good position for Zed.

Selentine

Ok, got it.

2380: Taking over on my turn, I make a few adjustments... firstly, there are some circumstances where I will spend money building a huge hull I don't intend to complete, such as when I am already at war (or planning to be at war shortly) and have only a short wait before all the techs I need to design my ships come in. However, in this case we are still waiting for quite a few techs -- we haven't even made any serious effort to research sublight engines yet! I would rather have used those funds to boost colony growth, or fund research which would have paid dividends right away, such as Enhanced Eco Restoration, rather than sock funds away in big ships we weren't planning to build anytime really soon. There would have been time enough to start building those ships once we were a bit closer to our research goals. Still, since we have a big reserve built up in our stardocks, we might as well make use of it, so I plan to start construction of a wartime fleet as soon as the techs we need come in. Similarly, having a reserve is good in case we run into an emergency, but we don't want to allow it to grow too large. If a multi-turn emergency crops up, we only need enough cash on hand to cover the first turn; we can redirect funds from rich planets to the reserve and generate enough to cover subsequent emergency turns on the fly. Better a bird in the hand than two in the bush!

Secondly, I don't at all like the idea of letting factories sit idle while we wait for pop to grow naturally. I would much rather spend on eco to grow pop where needed, especially since we have few planets that are really large to begin with. Natural population growth is far too slow to be worth the lost income, especially with the Klackons whose population are worth more to begin with. Moreover, there are other ancillary benefits to higher pop, including powergraph status for disuading enemy attacks, more votes, and extra troops available for ground assaults.

Thirdly, we are seriously underdefended when it comes to bases. I boost spending across the board to help with this. While everyone else is still at war with one another, and probably won't hit us, it would be foolish to be completely unprepared in case they do -- especially since we are going to start going on offense soon.

I increase trade with the Silicoids to 750 BC/annum. I don't get the impression that we are planning to go to war with them soon. More likely if we are going to try to overrun anyone, it will be the Sakkra. The Sakkra have a fair-sized navy but they have the worst tech of everyone we might consider fighting, and the smallest empire, so if we can fend off their navy, reinforcements will be less of a problem. We will want to take at least 2 of their planets including their homeworld, but since I don't know what their other planets are, we will have to see what their other planets are before we decide whether to commit genocide or let someone else wipe the Sakkra out.

2381-2383: Nothing.

2384: Enhanced Eco comes in, we can choose Soil Enrichment, Controlled Radiated, or Terraforming +40. I know the Sakkra have +40 already, so I don't choose that in case we can steal/capture it from them, but Soil vs. Radiated is a hard choice. I pick Radiated, but we will also want Soil next. The Silicoids are expanding pretty much unchecked and are up to 12 planets already. The Sakkra complain that our empire is growing too large.

2385-2386: Nothing.

2387: Our spies penetrate the Psilon research labs. We can choose anything other than Force Fields and Construction, which means this is a relatively low-level penetration. Computers won't get us anything useful, nor will Planetology, but either Weapons or Propulsion are possibilities. I choose the latter, and fortunately we get Inertial Stabilizer (other options were Sublight, which was probably out of reach, or Deuterium Cells.) I also note that the Sakkra have allied with the Psilons against the Silicoids and Mrrshan. They used to be at war with the Psilons -- must be some enemy-of-my-enemy action going on with the Silicoids and Mrrshan.

The inertial stabilizer steal is significant. The Sakkra don't have any computer technology other than ECM, which means that ships equipped with stabilizers & decent engines will be difficult targets for Sakkra missile bases, which only have a total attack value of 2 (Computer I + Battle Scanner).

2388: Sublight Engines and Battle Computer III come in, we choose Improved Space Scanner and Fusion Engines next.

2389: Automated Repair System and Force Field III come in, we choose Industrial Tech 6 and Force Field IV next. We have everything we need to build our first huge ships. We do need some better missiles soon for our bases, but we also need to keep up in Computer & Planetology tech and it seems silly to underuse our natural bonus in construction tech. I underemphasize Force Fields and Propulsion to some degree and allocate a bit extra to the other four fields. There is nothing coming up soon and none of the techs we are researching are particularily urgent, so steady progress seems to be the order of the day. After the current round of techs complete, however, the situation might change a bit. Going back for Soil Enrichment could merit some prioritization for Planetology tech, for instance. Stinger missiles and Robotic Controls IV would be really good to research sometime soon, too, if we get the option to do so.

Ship design time. For our huge ships, I opt to go fairly heavy on defense for our huges, so as to maximize the defensive potential of our auto-repair systems. I do include Inertial Stabilizers as I want a combat move of 3 for these ships, but I don't quite max out on maneuver defense as I want to leave some room for guns. I also design a small fighter armed with nuclear bombs and Inertial Stabilizers. Anytime we are on offense, if we bring along a big enough stack of these, the enemy bases should target them first; they have a defense of 7 so should prove quite difficult for the Sakkra to hit, seeing as they lack any sort of battle computer. Nuclear bombs are hardly the greatest bomb we could hope to have, but they should be able to penetrate the Sakkra's shields, seeing as no-one has a planetary shield just yet.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55501&stc=1

2390: Our fleet strength jumps from effectively zero to parity with the other races, as 2 Ion 3.0 huges and 200 Nuker 3.0 smalls complete. When on offense, it is vital to use combined arms; our Ion 3.0 ships are effectively invulnerable against small enemy forces but can be overwhelmed by a larger force and don't really have a lot of punch themselves. Ideally I would like to pair them up with some missile boats to provide a hammer, but we don't really have any decent missile tech. Otherwise, we are doing pretty well, and are in second place overall behind the Silicoids.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55503&stc=1

I also include a couple pics of the tech situation, showing both the Psilons where we are conducting espionage, and the Sakkra where we hope to make territory gains:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55504&stc=1

A picture of the Sakkra border, showing the bulk of the Sakkra fleet, and a picture of the overall map:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55502&stc=1

Here is the save:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55505&stc=1

Justus_II <== UP NOW
Erick the Red <== On Deck
Patroclus
Selentine
JMB
Zed

Well, I tried to use the attach within a post instead of the upload folder this time... I can put a link in where I want, but you still have to click to follow it. I suspect the reason it doesn't work is because the vB code doesn't recognize as images urls that don't end with a known graphics extension. It might be possible to play with the vB parsing rules to figure out a workaround, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort. This method wasn't really any faster than using the upload folder, so I may just go back to doing that.

Another note: I didn't try to drive a wedge between the Sakkra and the Psilons during my turn, but if we can get them to cancel their alliance or for one to declare war on the other, it would be a good thing for us as we wouldn't get involved in a 2-front war right off the bat. Since the Sakkra are ruthless, have a half-decent fleet, and have been at war with the Psilons in the past, we might be able to convince them to attack the Psilons or at least break off the alliance, and of course we can try asking the Psilons as well. On the other hand, if the attempt doesn't pan out, that's not necessarily sufficient cause to stall the attack on the Sakkra. We will want to wait a couple more turns before we launch the attack anyway to build up some more bombers (I think we want at least 300, possibly more) so that should give a small window for negotiations to work in.

Got it, but I may not be able to get to it until tomorrow. Handing me the keys to the fleet, and a green light to use it! ;) Thanks!

Well, I may not get to this one tonight after all, I'm still working on finishing my RBO Imperia Two report. If I can, I will get it in, otherwise I will play it tomorrow morning. Thanks for the patience!

2390 Pre-Turn: I see what Zed meant about the Huge ships, they’re indestructible, but not much firepower. I look into a missile boat design, I could put 2 Hyper-Vs on a medium, but probably not worth it. It’ll be at least 10 turns before another huge comes off the docks, and I don’t want to wait that long to start. I finally settle on an Ion Fighter design, Ion Cannon, Warp 3, but only maneuver 2, and can’t even squeeze a computer on. It’s not much, but it’ll add some punch, and will be good enough to scare off any stray ships that head our way. (I hope to hit his main fleet with the Ion 3.0’s). Firma keeps building the Nukers, until we can get 300, by then we’ll have another 100 fighters from Talas and Volantis. I do want to see what we are up against, so I’m going to send our scouts out to the Sakkra planets, but I do it in stages, so they will all arrive on the same turn (3 turns from now). Now, for the diplomacy. I start with the Sakkra, since our relations are better there. They won’t break the alliance, but when I ask them to declare war, they say they’ll do it, if we throw in Inertial Stabilizers. Well, if this plan works, they’ll be gone before they can use it anyway, so I go ahead and make the deal. ;)

2391 Scouts moving, Ion Ftrs and Nukers getting into position.

2392 More of the same.
IBT: Our scouts arrive at their targets. Looks like the Sakkra have been building some defenses!
Sssla: 36 Bases, 3 Titans (large). 140 pop/280 factories
Toranor: 12 Bases, 5 Valkyrie (large). 70/102
Willow: 21 bases, no ships. 110/220
And the red to the North of Sssla is Orion, (Maybe we already scouted it and I missed it).

2393 OK, time to get this party started! Move our fleet to our first target, Willow.
IBT: Battle of Willow- we have 2 Ion 3.0, 291 Nukers, and 94 Ion Ftrs, vs. their 21 bases and 14 assorted larges (scan is attached at the end of post). Basically, a mix of NPG-armed cruisers, with a few Hyper-Vs thrown in. Our Ion fighters prove their value immediately, as the AI targets all his bases on them. :rolleyes: His ships alternately kill off fighters and waste time on the huges, while our Nukers run in and start to hit the planet. They are taking out about 4 bases/round, while losing 3-4 fighters to his volleys. Not exactly a fair fight, but the best ones never are. ;) Our fighters get chewed up, losing about half, but take 3-4 larges in the process. The Ions don’t get a scratch, but they also don’t kill much, about one large every other round. Once the bases are gone, he retreats 5 of the larges, and we scout Willow, a 110 Ocean. Time for the gropos.

We also achieve an espionage penetration on the Psilons! Choices are Computers, Planetology, Propulsion, or Weapons, probably not too high. Probably cheap techs either way we go, so I go for weapons, and we get Gatlings. We get warnings from both the Psilons and the Sakkra, they’re not too happy with us at the moment.

2394 Send in the troops. I send from Endoria, Firma, and Vox, in phases, so they will all arrive in 3 turns. Meanwhile I send troops from Laan and Celtsi to replace the pop on Firma and Vox, I don’t want those factories sitting idle. I’m tempted to bomb them down a bit, but I’d like to get all those factories intact, and also better chance of getting techs. While I’m at it, I pump our weapons research up to all but one click on the others, to try and get Ion Rifles here faster, it’s now at 8%. It hits on the interturn, and our troops are issued new weapons enroute! Our new choices are Neutron Pellet Gun, Hyper X, Hard Beam, Fusion Beam, or Anti-Matter Bomb, which is what I take, those nukes will be pretty obsolete once Planetary Shields comes around.

2395 In transit…
IBT: We get a complete penetration of the Psilons! Tough call, I’d like Force Fields, as we don’t have either Class IV or V, but the Sakkra have Class IV. The other fields have tempting goodies, but also junk, and I don’t want to waste a good opportunity. Construction is a sure thing, though, they have Waste 60%, no one else does, and it saves money everywhere, so I take it. We get another warning from the Psilons, and the Sakkra declare actual war, I guess they don’t like troops on the way.

2396 In transit…
IBT: Troops land at Willow, we have 79 vs. their 110. We have superior gropo tech, however, up Personal Defense Shield and our new Ion Rifles, and we win with 18 remaining. A second group of 15 is following, due next turn (insurance). We also get 217 factories, and the techs roll: Improved Eco, Industrial 7, ECM I, Terra +40, Tundra, and Inferno. Jackpot! With our smaller, but rich planets, the Terra boost will be HUGE.

2397 Not sure why I left the whole fleet at Willow waiting for the troops, but I change that, sending them on to Sssla, although I leave 48 Ion Ftrs back to guard Willow. I manually go through our planets, setting most front-line worlds on max terraforming (even plow a little reserve into the rich ones to get it done quicker), and let the rear worlds go half terra, half research. Kholdan builds an Inferno Colony ship (2 years), with some terraforming, to grab the system to the south. Nothing else in range.
IBT: Battle of Sssla- 2 Ions, 112 ftrs, and 341 Nukers square off against 37 bases, and 14 assorted larges. Again, he targets the fighters first, and between that and the larges, they are gone in about 4 rounds. But again, he can’t hurt the Ions, I gradually kill off a few larges, and the Bombers are knocking out 5 bases/turn. The result is the same, we are in control of the system, and scout Sssla. Now, we have the “Enemy of my Enemy” factor kicking in, as the Psilons suddenly beg to ally with us! I can’t see any advantages to tying us up with an Erratic Psilon, so I respectfully decline, but it’s good to see relations in the green.

2398 Drakka finishes Terraforming, the others are getting there. I leave most to go for pop growth when finished, we need people and fast. I start the first group of troops to Sssla, but this is going to be tough, our northern planets are still recovering from Willow.

2399 Kholdan finishes the Colony ship, and several other planets finish terraforming, most income is still poured into pop growth. More troops head to Sssla, the fleet swings over to Toranor to destroy the bases there, leaving a small stack of nukers and one of the Ions at Sssla.
IBT: Destroy one new base at Sssla, and 13 bases at Toranor. Tempting, but I don’t bomb anyone, although there is some collateral damage from the space combat. We also get our next Vote: 31 total, it’s us vs. the Silicoids. Geode gets votes from the Sakkra (2), Alkari (2), and himself (10). We get the Psilon’s votes (5), the Mrrshan (4) abstain, and we abstain with our 8 votes as well.

2400 Adjust some sliders, as the rich planets are nearly maxed again on factories and pop. Research has been limping along at <500 rp, but it can start going up as more planets are remaxed. There is a colony ship that will arrive at the Inferno in the south next turn. The main assault wave will hit Sssla this next interturn. We have 82 enroute, vs 126 defenders. Based on the last battle (79 vs. 110) it will be close, but winnable. There’s another 15 arriving the following turn, if there are a few survivors, otherwise they will just help get it stood up. You can send more from Vox or Willow for a 2nd wave if you want. Most northern systems have been focused on maxing pop rather than factories, so we have more troops. I haven’t sent anything to Toranor yet either. The bombers are in orbit over both planets, with an Ion with each group. I haven’t been bombing, that many bombers would probably trash all the factories in one strike, so I’d rather take my chances on the ground combat.

Here's a map of the situation around Sssla:

Tech wise, we’re still spying on the Psilons, they still have several techs I’d like: Toxic (opens the UltraRich next door), Robotics IV, and Warp Dissapator. The Silicoids also have some decent techs, we may want to consider some espionage there, although I don’t think we want to provoke a war. They have Merculite Missiles, Robotics IV, and Planetary Shields.

Here's a scan of the Sakkra ship designs, and the save. Have fun mopping up the Sakkra! With their planets, and getting ours maxed again, I think we’ll have a very strong production base, and it’ll be time to think about our next target. :D

Some good results there, Justus! You made the right call on not bombing the populace, for sure. This war seems to be going as we had hoped. After it concludes I think we will want to spend a short while on infrastructure before considering choosing a new target and possibly building a new fleet.

As far as the next target goes, I think it will be a choice between the Psilons and the Silicoids. I'm not super-fond of trying to cozy up to an erratic, but the Silicoids have a lot of population and if we want to win a vote, we might consider reducing their voting block, plus they have an artifacts planet nearby that would be nice to have. OTOH, if we are in this for the long haul, then containing the Psilons might not be a bad idea either.

Got it.

I still have to do my imperium write up though, so I may not play tonight.

It looks like it will be a turn of mostly consolidation - it will take a while to build up to max population and factories but is worth it. Researching the bomb tech seems critical. It looks like we could also use better missile technology.

What are the trade-offs to eliminating the Sakkra?

Makes everyone annoyed at us until our relations naturally improve again due to trade agreements etc. We get an extra planet in exchange. If the planet is very small or ultrapoor, it might not be worthwhile to eliminate them. If the planet is decent, it probably is. I haven't looked at the save so I don't know what Toranor is.

Good missiles don't seem to be in our tree at present. We may have to steal/conquer/trade them from someone else. Stingers or Scatter Pack V, if available, would be great. Merculite will do in a pinch. Antimatter bombs are very nice bombs, but won't fit on a small ship just yet. Who we go after next and what their tech looks like will determine whether we use them or not. If you don't feel like making that decision on your turns, that's ok.

Some good results there, Justus!
Indeed.

As far as the next target goes, I think it will be a choice between the Psilons and the Silicoids. I'm not super-fond of trying to cozy up to an erratic, but the Silicoids have a lot of population and if we want to win a vote, we might consider reducing their voting block, plus they have an artifacts planet nearby that would be nice to have. OTOH, if we are in this for the long haul, then containing the Psilons might not be a bad idea either.
Generally it is good to go for the quick kills first and to smash Psilons sooner rather than later. Before they build fast fleets with Dissipators or develop potent missiles would be swell.

Geode is also more likely to play nice and not burden us with a second front.

I don't think we're going to lose the vote in 2425 nor win it even with Psilon support. So I would not worry about turning them against us through espionage or Scanning their fleet for Sporers or genociding the lizards for a free hand in the top corner. Do what feels right. There are many ways to win from here.

Selentine

Looking at the save, Toranor is a population 75 planet. That seems worth it to me, so it will be bye-bye Sakkra.

The psilons do not have class V planetary shields, and no missile technology. They have some very tempting technologies, so they are in line to be the next target.

There are some systems near the Sakkra that need to be scouted, so I will shuffle the scouts around.

Technology wise, Improved space scanner seems like it will be extra useful in a succession game. In the construction tree we are working on Industrial tech 6, but we may get that from invasions. In the force field tree we are researching Shield IV, but are about to pick that up from the Sakkra. Planetology has Controlled Radiated which lets us claim an ultra rich planet, and planetology is generally useful. Fusion Drives would be very nice, as they allow ships to move at speed 4 with an inertial stabilizer. Anti-matter bombs would let us crack planetary shields, and will be necessary eventually. I check the tech chart, and there is no missile technology at the next level. I guess we really are destined to be without missiles for a while.

2400 Reduce tech spending in Force fields and Contsruction to minimum levels. I scrap the Scout 1 design, as most of the planets they are guarding have bases now, and redirect some Scout 2’s to explore some systems.

I see that the Silicoids will trade Hyper-X rockets for Industrial Tech 7. Hyper-X doesn’t seem like enough of an upgrade considering the Silicoids are already leading the power graph and don't have better than Industrial Tech 9 right now.

The Sakkra attack with a huge ship. We can dance out of range of it’s neutron pellet guns, but it retreats before it is destroyed. Orion is just above the Sssla. Did we already know that? Imra is founded.

Sssla is taken with 2 colonists to spare! I choose repulsor beam over class V shields when we get Shields IV from the Sakkra, but that’s the only tech we capture.

Several planets max factory production.

2401 We need more troops in a big way. I set the rich planets to fill up the planetary reserves so other planets can grow faster. I start transferring colonists from Kholdan and Drakka, setting those planets to replace them the next turn.

2402 Increasing a planet’s production by around 50% using the reserves allows it to achieve the maximum increase in population. I do this for Vox, Willow, Sssla, and Escalon, and will for the next few turns as well.

2403 Our population increased by 120 this turn. :D Toranor is captured. Come on lucky Industrial Tech 6! Yes! New choices are Armored Exoskeleton, and Reduced Industrial Waste 40% I choose Zortrium Armor however. I like armor techs – they improve missile bases, huge auto repair ships, and ground combat all together.

Also, Trax is revealed to be a Toxic planet, and Draconis is a Radiated planet.

2404 More population shuffling. I switch 2 rich planets to build some more nukers and ion fighters in preparation for invading Primodius.

2405 Helos is now maxed out. The Psilons just got Planetry Shield V, so our bombers will have little effect. I will concentrate on our economy instead of invading.

2406 A virus strikes our weapons research labs, costing us 3900 research points. Well, it could have struck our ripening computer research.

2407 Darrian to the North is revealed to be a Barren Colony. I send a colony ship with reserve fuel tanks on it’s way.

2408 Improved Space Scanner is researched, and Robotic Controls IV is an option! I shift research efforts towards computers. A Mrsshan ship is heading to Darrian.

2409 The Mrsshan scout is chased off of Darrian. Finally I get a spying success against the Psilons. All fields are options. I choose Force fields with the hope of a planetary shield, but pick up Class V instead. I visit the Silicoid again and trade Class IV shields for Hyper-X rockets.

2410 All planets are maxed out, except Imra, which is close.

With the improved scanner I can see the Silicoid and Psilons are mixing it up. Neither seems to have much of a fleet. I kept the current levels of spending on bases, but our economy has grown, so we could build more.

Controlled Radiated is ripening and we will be able to claim some systems in the North once it comes in. A colony ship is already on its way to the Barren planet.

Sounds good. It seems we now pretty much have to wait for antimatter bombs to come in before we do any more fleet construction.

Justus_II
Erick the Red
Patroclus <== UP NOW
Selentine <== On Deck
JMB
Zed

Got it... I'll see if I can finish tonight.

Taking over the game, I see we’ve wiped out the Sakkras, and have a nice pair of shoes and six matching pieces of luggage to show for it.

The Psilons have Class V Planetary Shields. Combined with their Class V Deflector Shields, we can barely hurt them with our Nukers. We are piling research into Robotic Controls IV, which the Psilons have, while our antimatter bombs languish. Furthermore, the psilons have NO MISSILE UPGRADES YET. Unfortunately, as much as I would like to jump on Primodius, we can’t because we don’t have Range 5 or above. The Silicoids won’t trade us the range tech, unfortunately, although the were willing to trade Planetary Shield for Class V Deflector Shield. (I go back to the diplo screen, and offer the Silicoids a bribe of 225 BC, but they still aren’t willing to trade us the range tech. Was worth a try.)

2410:
We should hit the psilons before our fleet becomes obsolete. I send our SoD to Drakka (same number of turns to reach Rha with the stop, and we can reevaluate things in 4 turns before we commit). I move most of what was going to computer tech into Weapons, and some into Propulsion.

2411:
Keep the production shuffle going into research.

IBT:
Scout Arietis up north, 25 toxic hostile.
Colonize Darrian, the Barren 40.
The Psilons declare war on us.
Imra maxes population and factories and starts on research.
The Psilons caught all our spies... Dang!

2412:
Transfer 24 colonists from Toranor to Darrian, set Toranor to recover pop in 2 turns.
Send a scout to the green planet in the upper corner.

2413:
Planetology, Propulsion and Weapons all show percents.

IBT:
Controlled Radiated comes in. I start research on Soil Enrichment.
Scout the green in the corner. Terran 75, unoccupied!
The Silicoids declare war on us too. Drat, there goes our trade deal. So much for my bribe!

2414:
The psilons have sent a fleet to the Toxic U-rich left of Talas, but won’t arrive for 5 turns.
I check tech: still no missile upgrades for the Psilons, so I send the SoD to Rha. They also are sending a few dozen medium ships to Rha, but nothing that should be able to stop our Glorious Hugeness.
I scrap the now-empty Colony designs and build a radiated base colony. I give it fuel tanks, because those are useful and cheap at this point (and I checked if this would fit in a medium ship, it doesn’t). Talas will build one for the toxic U-rich, and Sssla will build one for the barren in the corner next turn.
I have Firma build some Ion Fighters to defend the Toxic U-Rich; the psilons didn’t send much of an escort for their ships.

2415:
Toranor maxes out pop again.
OOPS :sad: I accidentally sent the Scout 2 from Drakka with the SoD, which makes it miss Rha this turn!
Our new colony ships are built and sent on their way.
Our SoD arrives next turn; the psilons will have about 22 medium ships there, and an unknown number of bases.

IBT: The alkaris kick our scout out of Arietis.
Rha: 21 bases, but they’re just Nuclear Missile Launchers. But our bombs aren’t quite enough to get through their shields; we lose about half of our Nukers, and take them down to 11 bases.
Antimatter Bombs come in, however! We have the choice of Neutron Pellet Gun, Hard Beam, Fusion Beam, Omega-V Bomb or Anti-Matter Torpedos. None of these are good; OmegaV and Torpedos would get us to the next rank of techs. I research Torpedos, but regret it.
Colonize Gorra the Toxic U-Rich planet.

2416:
Redirect our retreating Rha fleet back to Rha for another round.
Transfer pop from Laan to Gorra, and set Laan to eco to recover pop.
Drakka is about to be attacked by the Psilons, but I don’t think they have bombs.
I design a large ship with 5 antimatter bombs, our best defenses, and have Drakka build one next turn. This is an experiment on my part, to hopefully get through their defenses, may not work but worth a try.
Another psilon fleet will arrive next turn at Gorra; we’ll have about 140 Ion Fighters to meet them.
Spying on the psilons is currently very hard; since the silicoids are at war with us, I move some of the psilon spying over to them. They have range 7 and merculite missiles, yum...

IBT:
Our 11 bases pulverize the Psilon fleet at Drakka, they never fire a shot.
Rha: We run out of bombs, get the planet down to 4 bases.
Gorra: Our Ion Fighters beat one of their ships, the rest retreat.

2417:
Keep our retreating fleet at Rha.
Send our new bomber to Rha, will arrive next turn. Have Drakka build another for next turn.
Redistribute a little tech, research less weapon and more propulsion. Want speed 3 troop transports...

IBT:
Finally break through at Rha! The antimatter bomber made the difference, and we are down to 79 of the Nukers, so that pretty much used em up. It’s a Terran 90. 89 pop, 239 factories... I don’t bomb, however.
We colonize Beta Ceti, the terran up north, and get the GNN notice, we number 18 star systems now.

2418:
Transfer 65 pop from Drakka to Rha (2 turns). We have Ion Rifle, they have no hand weapon, so we should have a nice gropo advantage. I also send 35 from Laan (4 turns) as either backup or to fill the planet. Both planets start on eco to refill.
Transfer some pop from Darrian to Beta Ceti.
Gorra is almost at max factories, but hasn’t terraformed, so I split revenue 50:50 between them.
Our SoD stays at Rha.

IBT:
Psilon ships show up at Rha, retreat.
Psilon ships show up at Gorra, some get blown up and rest retreat.
We are #1 in production! Klackon > Silicoid > Psilon > Mrrshan > Alkari. The Silicoids are allied with the Mrrshans and the Alkaris, and at war with the Psilons and us. (This could be a problem on the next vote. But judging by the Population bars, we should be over 1/3 of the total; the Mrrshans and Alkari cannot have many population.)

2419:
Propulsion at 26%. Here’s where our good tech luck early on gets evened out; the bulb was mostly full when I started my turn.
Transfer 13 pop from Drakka to Rha, returning Drakka to 50% pop.
Shuffle people around a bit.

IBT:
Rha: It was 65 bugs vs 90 brains... they hold it with 9 remaining; guess the 13 on the way from Drakka should get it next turn though!
Still no propulsion research, dang it!

Next leader should:

o Finish taking Rha and bask in the glory of stealing all their techs. You have 13 troops to arrive next turn and 36 to arrive the turn after.
o Finish standing up Gorra and the 2 colonies in the north. Expanding our population in preparation for the next vote would be wise.
o Check that eco won't overrun on colonies that transferred pop.
o Check fleet building; some of our planets were working on Ion 3.0s that will be due in a few turns, but we might want to upgrade to a new ship with better bombs.
o Keep spying on the rocks; they have range and missile techs we want.

Got it. I'll play tonight. Was expecting mostly to build factories but it looks like I've inherited an interesting position.

Selentine

I agree about the ship redesign. We may capture some weapons tech from the Psilons when we take Rha, and will at least get miniaturization on some components. Please hold off on any new designs at least until then (if you weren't planning to anyway.) We can probably scrap our Nukers now and build some huges with Antimatter bombs and some decent beam weapons -- ideally I'd like to see us capture Fusion Beams as well as Robotic Controls from the Psilons.

Great set of turns, good persistence in wearing down his bases to unlock the tech cabinet! I was also thinking we should scrap the older bombers. Also, have some scouts ready to push out once we take Rha, maybe we can get a glimpse of what's going on on the other side of the Psilons.

Warning: insanely long report. I kept the window open while I played. And these were some crucial turns, so I made sure every decision would be good enough for my teammates. Patroclus gave me an opening and I barged right through. All the details are here to play along. [end foreword]

Ok, first I check out the R screen and note what the enemies have researched. Sil: Shield=9, Missile=10, ground +15, BC4, RC4, ASS, EC6, PSV, RB, DS, +30, R7, MD, M10. Psi: Shield=10, Missile=4, ground +15, BC24, RC4, EC35, PSV, RB, DS, Tox, R59, WD, NB, FB. Pardon the shorthand--that's the way my notesheet looks. Our income is 6177 before spending any additional reserve, so I reduce espionage vs the Silicoids to 1.2%, enough for 2 spies per turn.

We are researching RC4, Zort, RB, Soil, W4, and AMT. W4 is at 26% with 1 click--that's enough, no need to burn more RP on it. RB was on one click and RC4 on three, good since we'll steal them soon enough. I emphasize Zort because I want to boost our troops and have the extra armor ready for our Warp-4 ships. Just to 9%, to take advantage of interest.

A lot of our planets are gradually building useless bases. I saw this happening in the past several saves but I didn't want to shout about it. I don't see the point in building bases when our shields and missiles are crap, and I don't see the point in building bases on Escalon ever. I increase our effective production about 10% by nearly halting base construction, though I do let a few almost-finished frontline bases finish.
We are still burning 6% of our prod on base maintenance, more than half of which I consider paranoid. Our reserve is a measly 641 and the B key tempts me.

Apparently we have engaged Psilon fleets in the past five years, but *I* don't know their ship designs. Whether their mediums carry Spores, for example, makes a big difference in where to go next.

Sssla is short seven factories (sabotage?). I build them.

I let Celtsi, the backyard UPoor, build facs until RC4 makes them prohibitive, at which point I will plowshare it into a popfarm.

Gorra is breeding. It is more efficient to send it pop from Kholdan and have Kholdan breed while Gorra exploits its URich bonus. I do that.

The radiated and the two toxics surrounding the upper nebula look appetizing, but war with the Silicoids makes me not want to defend them. We should get a range tech soon and then conquer the Silicoid outcrop at Reticuli. This would also make the infant colonies in the corner safer.

I decide then that I'm not going to build a colony ship this turn, so I scrap the colony design to make an obscenely expensive huge, just to protect the BC in the docks from popping too soon.

The ship design screen is munged. Mac import incompatibility? It does not show the Stabilizer on Patroclus's large bomber design, and has the Special 1 grayed out. But with 1139 space remaining! So, if willing to forego the Stabilizer I could put a sick number of bombs on a large hull. It displays the Attack Level as -1 on the design screen, but 3 on the fleet specs. Of course I redesign and hit CLEAR, which zeroes everything correctly. The new joke design is 4934 BC, so none will pop. I put Volantis back into ship production. I imagine whatever I design with Zort, W4, etc. will be more than the 3500 the Ion 3s cost right now.

I send 21 pop from Sssla and 12 from Toranor up to Darrian; that's how much they can recoup in one turn. Laan and Drakka aren't close to filling back up, so I leave them on ECO.

The fighter stack on Gorra doesn't need to stay there. F8 turns up nothing. It will reach Rha in 2 so I send it. This will free the stack currently on Rha to move onward to Regulus.

Looks like everything. I save (afraid of lockups) and bravely hit N. [I save every turn actually, but no lockups.]

Three Star Streaks (Def 3/3, Att 0, HP 27, Sh 0, Spd 2, 3 Fus Beam) appear on Rha long enough for me to scan them. Unknown spies destroy one missile base on ENDORIA, hitting us where it hurts. I do not bomb Rha. No tech breakthrough! :(

Our valiant troops capture Rha's 243 factories with 10 survivors. Death Spores, Planetary Shield V, ECM 3, and Fusion Beam are our reward. :mad: No Dissipator, no Cells, no Robots. I'll just have to smash Regulus now. One colony ship and nine Star Wings are en route to Rha. I imagine our 150 ion smalls will handle them.

I have to time this carefully because I don't want too many pop in transit in 2524. I still can't send men at Regulus because it's unscouted. Rha is 10/90+ with 36 due to land. I send 44 more from Drakka. Sadly they won't arrive in 1 because Fusion Drive didn't hit. I leave Drakka on ECO, since there aren't any purple ships in the neighborhood. I can raise a shield PDQ if needed.

I send Rha some of our feeble reserve and put it mostly on defense--a shield plus one base will stop Fusion mediums so our fleet can move forward. I let Gorra overflow a little and put some into shipbuilding. Next turn it will be maxed. When we get real techs and Volantis launches whatever it's building, I'll put it on RESERV and direct that into Gorra.

A Psilon appeared in the top nebula, but it's just a futile colship destined for Reticuli.

The Silicoids have turned up with Advanced Eco (10/1). :baffled:

Ok, we need more pop in Psilon space. Celtsi is now on 89 facs. I send 45 of its 90 pop to Kholdan. They'll land in 4, in time for the vote; can't send them farther safely. I send more men from Kholdan to Drakka--again, as far as they'll get in time at Warp 2--and leave it breeding.

Save again. Zort at 21% and W4 at 27%.

Of course I forget to leave something with a scanner at Rha. :( The Psilon Colship and 7 Star Wings shoot green beams from range 2. Must be heavy fusion, probably 1 per ship. strange they didn't retreat. Ah, and the Star Wings have Ion Cannons as backup, again probably just 1 from the feeble damage. Oh, and they're speed 1. We obliterate them with one shot and one more for the Colship which finally tries to retreat.

Regulus is 68 pop, 256 facs (nice ratio, easy meat), Shield 10, 20 nuke launchers. Ok, now I can scan them. Star Wing=Def 2/2, Att 4, HP 27, Shield 1, Spd 1, HFB+IC. Colship=Def 1/1, Att 4, HP 100, Shield 0, Spd 1, HFB. I could probably just hit A but for the team's sake I'll go through the grind. Ion smalls attract the first volley. And a second. I move them forward 2, then back 2 diagonally to keep them on the screen. Next turn they'll R. Ok, I should have moved them manually, then hit R. STOOPID computer. Meanwhile our 79 nuke bombers run a big circle to avoid being hit; they're faster than the missiles. When they get back, they do a thundering 2. No need to sweat keeping them alive, though I guess I get a few hundred extra for scrapping the whole stack. Our mighty fleet knocks down 2 of the 20 bases. :( Dismal failure.

Our research breaks through at last. I would rather have dissipators but obviously I need to build something NOW to deal with the Psilons before they can actually damage us.

Why didn't I write this down? In a solo game, I would just know. Well, given the choice between Industry 8, Armored Exo, and 40%, I do know we don't have Suits because Duralloy popped on my turn. Since we'll be invading A LOT, I think we need Exos. Plus with 5/1 in hand and 10/1 available from the Coids of all places, 40% is not that big a savings over 60%. Given the joyous choice of R7, R8, or Warp 5, I take Impulse Engines. We will steal useful range tech faster than we could research it (silly insects). W5 is also the only way forward in case--no, I shan't even say it--and we need something like Gates to mop up.

Ok. We're not going to learn or conquer another consequential ship-design tech soon, so I redesign. I also scrap what's left of the obsolete nukers. I don't build Sporers because they don't kill bases and we need to kill bases to take factories and tech. Besides, they're cheese.

Our Tech levels here are 15-22-22-25-19-23, if you want to play around with the spreadsheet. We can fit an AMB on a small, with Fusion/Spd 2 or Sub-Light/Spd2/Zort, but no way to get Spd 3. One more level of Construction would do it, but even if I'd taken IT8, no guarantee it'd hit. I think small Spd2 AMBers will perish too quickly, and BC0 bombers are basically useless against ECM5(Psilon) or 6(Silicoid). Medium designs are:

Attack 3 Shield 0 Def 7/7 HP 18 Warp 4 Spd 4 3xAMB 96BC
Attack 3 Shield 1 Def 5/5 HP 36 Warp 4 Spd 3 3xAMB 107BC
Attack 3 Shield 4 Def 2/2 HP 18 Warp 4 Spd 1 2xAMB 100BC

These all seem pretty feeble. Shield 4+3xAMB+Warp 4 is not possible, and we need warp to get them into Psilon space before they're obsolete. Strapping on a Scanner would raise the to-hit from 20% to 30%, a huge gain. So it looks like the best dedicated bomber would be a large:

Attack 4 Shield 4 Def 1/1 HP 100 Warp 4 Spd 1 18xAMB 567 BC

Of their 180 bombs, 54 should hit for 0-30 each, or 810. Psilon bases won't crack Shield 4, so no armor or maneuver. We'll need something else to break rocks, but we should have better tech by then.

The other design is a huge Auto-Repair HFBeamer. The HFBs will do something like 1 each per turn against Shield 10 (when they hit, which is 80% since ECMs don't jam them), so two of them will take down one base before timeout. Throwing some bombs on seems necessary, and the issue is how many. After much thought, I decide that firepower is more important than combat speed and settle for:

Attack 4 Shield 5 Def 1/1 HP 1200 Warp 4 Spd 2 8xHFB IC 25xAMB

Back to planets. Darrian is TFd and makes facs, awaiting immigrants. Beta says MAX and starts TFing. Celtsi breeds. Laan will remax its pop; I put the rest into tech. Rha TFs while working on its shield. 35 more from Drakka will fill Rha (it has 243 facs, we need at least 122 pop to use them) and 35 more from Kholdan will replace them. There's nowhere else I can send pop. Denubius, but I don't feel our current tech will crack it. The first Silicoid target should be small and rich or large and poor, with fewer than 30 bases.

I redirect the fleet at Regulus to Collassa. I think this is Not Cheese, unlike directing them to remain at Regulus. Maybe Collassa is Ultra Poor with no shield, who knows.

Gorra makes two bombers and sends them to Rha (in 2). Volantis makes a huge and sends it to Drakka (in 2). Talas and Firma don't build just yet.

Shows how much attention I was paying to earlier reports. :( Collassa is Inferno, 53/150. And because the Psilons settled it late, it has no bases and three Wings to defend it. Inferno, 100 max!?

2423: I send 65 from Rha to Collassa, replaced by another 24 from poor Drakka (down to 48 but with 65 en route). Drakka keeps breeding and gets another 14 from Laan (in 2) which will replace them in 1. Rha is getting its shield and a base up this turn, so I send the fighter stack to Collassa.

Having all these scouts on the core worlds confuses me. I think they're warships I forgot to launch.

I slow Talas and Firma down so they don't build before our troops hit Collassa. I gave Exos a jump start last turn (so they can interest their way up cheaply); this turn I pour most of the RPs into Enrichment to get a %.

IBT: Six large purple Monitors launch missiles at our poor scout at Trax. I let the scout die to verify; the missiles were launched from column I and hit, so they're probably merculite 2-racks. Psilon mediums retreat from Collassa. I still don't bomb. The horrifying GNN logo comes up and tells me Darrian is controlled by at least 27 million rebels. This is strange because it didn't rebel last turn when its pop was 21. It's annoying because this is 2424. I can't get enough men there before the vote, so I'll send them in 2425.

2424. Our large bombers are at Rha. I send them to Regulus, plus a huge and 50 small escorts from Collassa, leaving the earlier model bombers at Collassa in case it raises a base. Rha breeds and gets reinforcements from Drakka, which will be back up to 110 when the blimps land. Celtsi and Kholdan will be remaxed too.

I want to send the new huge to Mentar, but Mentar's out of range! It looks like Ukko-Mentar is slightly more than 4pc. I send since Denubius is hopeless and Ukko is the only target in range. Enrichment is at 12%.

IBT: Ukko is Terran, 120/352, with 29 merculite bases. It is guarded by one Monitor, Def 3/3, Att 3, HP 150, Sh 2, Spd 2 (IS), 2 M10x5 + 3M10x2. I get two shots in for about 60 per before I have to retreat.

18 mediums guard Regulus. The Ion 3 has such firepower I wonder if I can kill them all before they reach my bombers! Conveniently, I don't have to--after killing 10, they try to retreat (5 escape). Success! All 19 bases go down with one volley of bombs to spare. Ocean, 80 max.

We steal BC4 and R5, both badly needed, but not the crown jewels.

Vote time. Geode 12 for himself. Mrrs 4 for us! Alkari 2 against, Psilons 4 against, and I abstain our 17. Guess there was no danger after all.

[continued, was too long, but save was already attached here]

2425: Well, well. Mentar is in range from Ukko even though it's mm farther than Gorra->Drakka. I send the huge.

Sssla and Toranor send as many men at Darrian as they can replace in 2. This should leave Darrian with enough loyal Klackons to send some up to Beta--Celtsi to Beta is just too far.

I elect not to build defenses on Collassa because it'll be back-line once we finish off the Psilons. Instead it terraforms. Celtsi sends to Kholdan (45 in 3), Kholdan sends to Regulus (45 in 4), Rha sends to Regulus (61 in 1 to take it). Kholdan will regain the 45 in 2, then send another exodus before the blimps from Celtsi arrive.

I scrap the scout2s because they're not exactly defending anything anymore. If we need more scouts later we can make faster ones. I really want to use BC4 now that we have it.

2425.5: Mentar is 100/391, 34 nuke launchers. Our huge takes out 21 of them. Unknown spy hammers us again, sabotaging 4 of back-line Volantis's 16 bases.

61 Klackons with Zort Armor, PDS, and Ion Rifles (+30) against 71 Psilons with Duralloy Armor, PDS, and their bare fists (+20) should not lose. AUGH! One Psilon survives :(

2426: I cut back on the Enrichment (high enough anyway, 18%) and work harder on Exos. I'm still min on Repulsors and Robots, which I expect to take Real Soon Now for free. The Silicoids have developed Shield 6, and the Psilons cleverly took Megabolt Cannon (still no missiles) and Ion Drive! More baubles for us.

Drakka sends more pop to Rha which sends more pop to Regulus, yada yada. Collassa is TFd but stays on ECO because I just can't get enough men over there fast enough. It has 167 facs anyway. Again I hold off building ships but that's getting old.

An Ion and four large bombers (two of each type) will polish off Mentar. The huge at Mentar has nowhere useful to go in 1 and goes back to Ukko. The only planet near Mentar is Misha, which must be hostile. Convenient for us this geography stifled the Psilons.

IBT: 17 Star Wings at Mentar take issue with our large bombers, which dance like butterflies while the Ion 3 kills off 12 Wings, making them retreat. Enrichment hits! :) Our choices are the obsolete Barren and Toxic, 10/1 (which we can steal from the Silicoids), and Atmospheric, which I select.

Our 38 take down the last Regulan, pillaging Toxic, Repulsor, RC4!, R9!, EC5! and BC2. This is good. Even the bad ones are good because now there's no bad ones left--only Dissipator, Warp 6, Neutron Blaster, and Megabolt. Between Primodius and Mentar we should collect the full set.

Choices are ECM2, Advanced Scanner, BC6, and ECM6. ECM6 is the only way forward but I doubt we'll need it AND something from the next block to win this game. The choice between Adv Scanner and BC6 is not clear, so I take ECM2. It's only 1960 and will raise our tech level for miniaturization and spies. Someone might even want to strap one on a bomber someday. Mainly, though, I'm letting JMB take whichever real advance he wants.

The Force Field choice is between Personal Absorption Shield and Class VI. If Silicoids had Scatter 5, there might be a case for Class VI. I take PAS.

2427: I go through all the damn planets giving them enough ECO to enrich and a couple clicks of IND to refit.

The huge from Ukko goes to Primodius (in 2). I send 70 from Sssla to meet him there. I send from Rha, Regulus, and Collassa 90 to Mentar, which is all that can get there in 2 and SHOULD be enough but no guarantee.

We can't avoid building anymore, and there's no need for anti-Psilon designs as the Psilons are about cooked. A FAST bomber with a decent computer might do real damage to the Silicoids. Our levels now are 26-22-23-27-25-23. Our best medium bomber is now:

Attack 4 Shield 4 Def 7/7 HP 36 Warp 4 Spd 4 3xAMB 96BC

Quite an improvement. But still, it'll take 9 of em to take down one silicoid base per turn, and 31 bases will kill off 11. I wish we had Anti-Missile Rockets. We have over 10000 in the three docks, so I can have 100+ of these guys on Laan next turn and on Denubius the turn after. Another escort might be nice--the Silicoids have a few huges floating around, though they seem to be Warp 1.

I think the original Large Bombers have done their job (currently taking a victory lap around Mentar). I scrap them to design a better huge--Spd3, BC4, and 10 HFBs (but less bombs, since the dedicated bombers can handle that). I don't add a Repulsor since I haven't seen a stack that needed to be repulsed.

The R screen shows the Mrrshans and the main map shows their planets, but the M screen does not show green flags! I don't spy on them or write down details, since this looks buggy to me. No need for exploits when this far won.

Ok. 89 med bombers and a huge will arrive on Laan. I send men from Laan to Denubius (arrive in 2) and Kholdan (arrive in 3--Kholdan is about to receive 45 from Celtsi).

Complicated, slow turns, not like I was expecting yesterday!

IBT: :mad: So the Psilons haven't built one useful ship all game. Suddenly on Mentar appears a SUN FIRE: Def 3/6, Att 5, Sh 5, Sp 3, 9xHFB, 14xFB, 3xHBC, 4xNB, ARS, IS, BS. Our HFB huge could probably take it (with good tactics vs the AI's). Our Ion 3 can't possibly do 135/turn. So it retreats (with its bomber escorts) towards Tao, where it will meet 100 smalls from Collassa. Maybe the Sun Fire will find something interesting to do rather than guard Mentar against our 90 transports...

:) Our spies have infiltrated a Silicoid base. The choices are Planetology (the useless +30, looks too low-level for 10/1), Propulsion (the useless Range 7), or Weapons (the arguably useful Mass Driver or Merculites). I take Weapons and get Mass Driver.

33 of our 65 Imperial troops survive against the 27 rebels on Darrian.

The Mrrshan now appears, somehow, saying Surrender Now! I spy on her. Oh! We took range 9 by force, and one of her planets was 8 away. This is a minor quirk, inelegant, but I remember it now. She has five planets on the far side of the Silicoids. One yellow remains, must be Altair (above the far nebula on the near side), and the two systems inside the nebula must be Alkari or no-planet.

2328 I mostly build factories, not a very exciting turn. Stupid Psilons are aiming at Gorra, which can raise a shield so fast I can't see why not.

More troops from Drakka barracks set sail for Denubius. Here goes nothing.

IBT: Of course. Denubius produces a huge just in time. POLARIS Def 2/2, Att 4, HP 900, Sh 3, Spd 2, 10 Merculitex5, 13 MD, 13 Spores :eek: , IS, ARS, BS. Our escort laughs at that, but the 33 bases are hard to laugh at. Maybe they'll target our bombers?

Hmm. 10 HFBs did 115, and it repairs 135. We lose 13 bombers from 33 bases, about what I expected, then destroy 8, almost 9, about what I expected. We have plenty of force...dear god it retreated. Faced with the equivalent of a scout vs scout battle, the Polaris yields. 60 of our 89 bombers survive.

16 bases on Primo are the absolute limit--HFB killed the last two.

Spies destroy six factories on Toranor. :cry:

I do not bomb Denubius. I'm not sure we have enough to take it this turn, but I want all the facs (now that we have RC4) and the backups from Kholdan will arrive next turn. I don't bomb Primo either.

89 vs 133 WIN with 30 survivors! 70 vs 36 WIN with 41 survivors--four-fisted Psilons put up quite a fight! 47 (of 90 :() LOSE to 99 on Mentar--41 defenders remain. I think the Ion 3 is so outmatched that the Sun Fire wouldn't have retreated like the Polaris did, but maybe I should have fought a couple rounds to check.

Our empire nearly controls a majority of the galaxy.

From Denubius: ASS, +20, EC6, S6, M10, 10/1
From Primodius: Dissipator, Neutron Blaster, Ion Drive

Still two chances to get Megabolt Cannon. The only remaining Coid techs are Range 7 and +30, both obsolete. I switch to sabotage against them and espionage everyone else. No spy through to Mrrshans last turn :(

2429: My last turn, presumably of the game. I want to leave things in a happy place for the rest of you. Actually, it looks like we should win no later than 2449, which means no one gets a third term. Most of the planets are making factories. Just Celtsi is making tech. Exo is close, nothing else has been seriously researched. Gorra will be double-prod for a while, but it can always be kicked back into reserve for 150% return on investment. JMB, you can design whatever ship suits your fancy, and feel free to scrap my PSIBombers--their task is done. All our standard planets have been fertilized--Primo and Denubius will be converted this turn.

Well, I never bothered with Reticuli or the uninhabiteds in that corner, and I took Denubius first after all. Shows what I know.

IBT: Tao is Jungle from the look of it, 85/296. 28 bases which is too many--6 remain. Psilons make joke attacks on Gorra and Collassa.

Well, our spies have infiltrated a Mrrshan base. Comp, Planet, Prop, and Weapon are our choices. What could they have that we possibly need? Not scanners or robots or battle computers. Not environments or terraforming or enrichment. Not range or drives or Dissipators. Well, they're Mrrshans, if they have anything useful I'd guess it's a weapon. The mighty Neutron Pellet Gun is ours! At least it miniaturizes our real weapons.

We scan everything with the Adv Scanners we got last turn. So although I failed to scout Tao, you can still send men at it--it only has six nuke bases after all.

GNN reports that we lead in technology.

OK, the Mrrshans had garbage and in weapons at least we might have stolen Anti-Missile rockets.

And that's it. I didn't drop the ball--sorry if I hogged it. Thanks to everyone for building the great position I inherited, and for making me think more about my decisions (a couple times starting up test games to make sure I had my formulas down) than I would have solo. It's been fun, glad I played. It looks downhill from here.

Selentine

Great job breaking the AI's back, Selentine! You picked up on the AI's weak points and designed ships to address those weak points similarly (if not exactly identically) to what I would have done. I'm also appreciative of the detail in your report!

You had some implied questions/comments that I want to address.

A lot of our planets are gradually building useless bases. I saw this happening in the past several saves but I didn't want to shout about it. I don't see the point in building bases when our shields and missiles are crap, and I don't see the point in building bases on Escalon ever.
When I inherited the game and started the base building program, we had in the range of 0-2 bases on all of our planets, including key border systems like Drakka. Usually when I play solo, I build bases at a moderate rate (say 3 clicks or so on frontline systems, less on backline systems) until I have 10 or so, bearing in mind that the AI has a propensity for researching new range techs every so often. After I hit 10 bases, I slow down, but I usually keep a trickle going to keep the bases modernized as I capture/steal/develop tech. Even at back line systems like Escalon, I want at least a couple bases. A monster could show up, or the AI could develop Thorium cells for unlimited range, and I don't want to be in a position of starting from scratch at that point and having to wait a long time to get my first base up due to building a shield first. Better to have a couple bases up so however much of the shield I do complete before I get hit is actually protecting something. Even if I don't have any really good missiles or shields yet, it's pretty certain that I will at some point steal, capture, or develop some, in which case the investment is not wasted... and again, if I go to war against an equiv-tech opponent while I have a defensive disadvantage that I hope to counter by capturing tech, I'd better have some bases in place before I go to war, or I may be forced to spend a long time in the middle of my war effort building bases to defend against counterattack. Crash base-building programs at planets with inbound fleets are a mainstay of my defensive plan once I get Improved Scanners (or better), but I find they work better if you have at least a modest amount of bases in place to start with.

The level of base construction I described above usually amounts to base maintenance of about 5-10% in the early stages of the game, dropping to about half that (or less) by this time of the game. I note that Patroclus did in fact have a turn where the 11 bases on Drakka (at the time) proved themselves useful against a Psilon fleet. Still, as I mentioned, there does come a point where you've got enough bases on hand to provide a starting point for a solid defensive plan, and at that point I find it's better to reduce base expenditures to a trickle and concentrate more on other things. I haven't looked at any of the saves, but it's possible that leaders following me didn't look at the base situation and decide it was time to slow down until we got to your turn. Volantis, at 16 bases, probably would have merited having base spending reduced earlier, if I had been playing this solo.

Some players play with the philosophy that losing a planet or two to a counter-attack while you come up with an effective response is acceptable. Because I usually play on small maps where every planet counts and an SoD you can't counter can roll up half your empire in a big hurry, my philosophy has always been to protect all my planets with a significant but not excessive number of bases. Sirian is even more defensive-minded than I am in that regard and has reported base totals and maintenance expenditures that I would almost never consider, yet he still manages to win regularly on impossible, so it's probably a style preference more than anything else.

Having all these scouts on the core worlds confuses me. I think they're warships I forgot to launch.
Regarding the scouts, once I get into wartime mode and most of my planets have bases up, I usually scrap them too -- or at least move them off the front lines so that they don't accidentally interfere with my fleet movements. So no problems on that score.

We can't avoid building anymore, and there's no need for anti-Psilon designs as the Psilons are about cooked. A FAST bomber with a decent computer might do real damage to the Silicoids. Our levels now are 26-22-23-27-25-23. Our best medium bomber is now:

Attack 4 Shield 4 Def 7/7 HP 36 Warp 4 Spd 4 3xAMB 96BC
Time for some bombing discussions. I have some pointers to give (in general, you may already be aware of some of these) and questions to ask.

In this situation I would have preferred to build a small fast AMB bomber rather than a medium. I'd rather skip bulky defensive techs like shields, rely on speed and the wait button to evade enemy missiles, and spend my money on more ordinance -- especially if I have SPD 4 and can reach the planet in 2 turns, and even more especially if I can get an initiative advantage over the planet (which is usually not too hard with a fast bomber.) In fact, I was so puzzled as to why you would put a shield on any ship smaller than a large that I checked the design -- this is actually a shield 0 bomber.

With the tech available at the time you designed the medium bombers, I expect you could have designed something like:
Atk ~1 Shield 0 Def 8/8 HP 3 Warp 4 Spd 4 AMBx1 BC ~12
This would give you 8 bombs for 96 BC, rather than 3, and where it takes 4 hits with merculites to kill a 96 BC medium, 4 hits against smalls will only do 1/2 as much damage BC-wise, plus they are slightly harder to hit in the first place and less expensive to maintain. The only thing you're giving up is ~3 levels in BC. The question is whether almost tripling the bomb payload would give more return than the extra to-hit.

Your calculation of bomb to-hit chances seemed to imply that enemy ECM affects bomb to-hit, whereas Sirian seems to be of the opinion that it does not, and that BC IV-V is enough for any bomber to maximize bomb damage. Do you have any evidence that ECM counts against bombs? It might be possible to run a test to confirm -- you would need two opponents with equivalent shield tech and other defenses, but where one had a significant amount of ECM and the other did not. What formula did you use to get your estimate of how much damage your bombs would do?

Lastly, for those that are not aware, if you wait on the first turn with your bombers so that you move last, and allow the enemy missiles to come to you, use your held move to move diagonally toward one side of the board and past the missiles, and then immediately on the next turn (because you have initiative) move next to the planet with enough force to wipe out all the bases, the missiles in flight will disappear and you will take no casualties from enemy missile base fire. Even if you don't wipe the bases out completely, you still get the benefit of unloading your full complement of bombs on the first attack, before the initial volley reaches you for retaliation, and hopefully greatly reducing the weight of the second missle base volley. Only the fastest of enemy missiles will have a hope of catching you as you race toward the planet. This is why it is more important to maximize offensive payload than defenses on fast dedicated bombers.

So the Psilons haven't built one useful ship all game. Suddenly on Mentar appears a SUN FIRE: Def 3/6, Att 5, Sh 5, Sp 3, 9xHFB, 14xFB, 3xHBC, 4xNB, ARS, IS, BS. Our HFB huge could probably take it (with good tactics vs the AI's). Our Ion 3 can't possibly do 135/turn. So it retreats (with its bomber escorts) towards Tao, where it will meet 100 smalls from Collassa. Maybe the Sun Fire will find something interesting to do rather than guard Mentar against our 90 transports...

I think the Ion 3 is so outmatched that the Sun Fire wouldn't have retreated like the Polaris did, but maybe I should have fought a couple rounds to check.

The AI doesn't just look at his fleet superiority ships vs. our fleet superiority ships when calculating whether his fleet should retreat. The Polaris retreated not so much because of our HFB ship as because of the big bomber stack accompanying it. The total combat power of his fleet+planet was sharply dropping in comparison to our fleet+bombers. This is one of the reasons a decently large stack of bombers can go off unsupported in many cases and take worlds -- once the bases are bombed away, the AI judges he doesn't have enough combat power left to stay in the fight, and so retreats his fleet even though the bombers can't hurt his ships. In the case of the Ion at Mentar, your 2 large bombers probably didn't have enough combat power to help scare his huge away.

As far as the Ion 3 being outmatched and undergunned, I think the design did its job well, considering what it was intended to do at the time. It could perhaps have sacrificed the Inertial Stabilizer in favour of more weapons, which would have made it more useful against the Psilon fleet, but that would have made it more vulnerable to the Sakkra fleet it was intended to face. Certainly it was never intended to go up against an opponent sporting HFBs! :) Their job is done now, however, and they are eating up a fair bit of maintenance and one of our design slots, so they can probably be brought home and scrapped.

Selentine, exciting set of turns, and I really appreciate the detailed report. One of the biggest benefits of the SG format for me is trying to learn more about the decision process of some of the really good players (whether for Civ or MOO). In particular, your analysis of bombers vs. bases, and specific bombers for each race, is something I got out of these turns! ;) Thanks!

EDIT: Uh, crossposted with Zed-F, but ditto for you, Zed! My bomber philosophy is usually just like Nathan Bedford Forrest's famous motto, "fastest with the mostest", as many as I can get on a good speed ship, whether that means smalls, mediums, or larges, whichever works out to be the best combination. I definitely appreciate the discussion!!

Great job breaking the AI's back, Selentine! You picked up on the AI's weak points and designed ships to address those weak points similarly (if not exactly identically) to what I would have done. I'm also appreciative of the detail in your report!
Whew! Thanks, cap'n, and thanks for your response. I respect your play, strange as it seems sometimes, and it's good to hear your reasoning. (not gonna quote it line by line)

When your first turn came, you commented that you seldom threw 000s of BCs into a huge you didn't intend to launch, and then commented that zero bases left you feeling unprepared. My philosophy--and I play medium far more than small, which may account for this--is that with 3000 BC in the dock, I'm prepared for anything, whereas bases might be the wrong solution to a given fleet. I don't mind having 1-2 bases up, since it does save a step if you have to crashbuild shields later. So while I was needling you :mischief: I can't single out any one player for the surfeit of bases.

Even at back line systems like Escalon, I want at least a couple bases.
That's why I didn't scrap 'em. :) Personally I think I could raise enough bases at Escalon by the time whatever made landfall. But again, I seldom play small, so I do ascribe to the survivable-loss philosophy. To get ready for my turn, I played Med/Imp/5/Klackon and got a huge land grab, which meant I was building lots of colony ships and behind on tech. I had to just concede one planet each to the Humans and Darloks while catching up. On small you can't afford that, so the Hedgehog is a fine strategem.

Even if I don't have any really good missiles or shields yet, it's pretty certain that I will at some point steal, capture, or develop some, in which case the investment is not wasted...
Bases cost like 250 early and 150 or less when I get belligerent. 250 early can pay a lot more than 150 down the road. </pontification>

I saw base maintenance was over 5% and I was horrified! :haironend: But certainly your plan works--even here in the SG--and I don't mean to deplore it.

I know how the wait button works, btw. I elect not to use it because I consider it broken.

Ack, I typoed that design. Yes, everyone, the SILBombers are Shield 0.

With the tech available at the time you designed the medium bombers, I expect you could have designed something like:
Atk ~1 Shield 0 Def 8/8 HP 3 Warp 4 Spd 4 AMBx1 BC ~12
I presented the tech levels. The spreadsheet is linked from the RB board. I couldn't fit ANY computer on it *OR* a stabilizer.

Your math adds up. If I could build smalls with stabilizers and even BC1, I might well have done so. That was not possible in 2427.

Your calculation of bomb to-hit chances seemed to imply that enemy ECM affects bomb to-hit, whereas Sirian seems to be of the opinion that it does not, and that BC IV-V is enough for any bomber to maximize bomb damage. Do you have any evidence that ECM counts against bombs? It might be possible to run a test to confirm
Yes. In 2422 I was not certain--I "knew" but had not tested--so I loaded a solo game, designed a BC3 bomber, OREO'd 100 of them over an enemy planet (an enemy with good ECMs), and noted how much damage they did. 200 fusion bombs were doing 500 per volley against shield 4. So 5-20 minus 4 is 1-16 or 8.5 per. About 60 were hitting. Or 30%, against beam defense 1 and missile defense 5, with attack level 3. Att3 AMBers were doing 4500/kilobomb against missile defense 5, shield 10 (15 avg damage, 30% hit). While discovering OREO's limitations, I also tested BC4 AMBers against a planet with nothing (Shield 1, no ECMs) and they were doing (((10+40)/2)-1)*0.8 with reasonable random deviation. ECMs do jam bombs.

And yes, the Ion 3 did its job toasting the Sakkras. Because we didn't have much else (and the Psilons didn't have much until the Sun Fire), I was still using the Ion 3s til the end. One of them stopped the last joke attack against Collassa, and the other cleared almost all the mediums on Tao so my Spd1 bombers could unload. They certainly served us well.

Selentine

I'd like to echo my thanks for the detailed discussion. I grossly underestimated our ability to bring it to the Psilons.

Good answers Selentine. If you consider wait broken (and I agree there is an argument to be made for that) then by all means don't use it. I haven't come to a decision on that. Obviously the designers put it there with the intention that it should be used, but is it too strong an advantage for the human? That would be like saying the ability to micromanage which worker does what where in Civ1-3, rather than just automating everything, is too strong. Maybe it is stronger than the AI approach of moving everything as its turn comes up, but is the ability to wait essential enough to the way combat is intended to flow that removing it entirely causes more problems than it solves? Hard to say.

Unfortunately the spreadsheet doesn't seem to work correctly for me. The formulae in C9-F18 show as being broken, and are complicated enough that I don't want to mess with them. :) I know with the tech we had in 2430 we could design a small bomber with fusion engines, inertial stabilizer, and BC II, so I figured we could have made a design that was a bit less capable than that only 3 years before. Capturing Ion Engines must have made a dramatic difference in the miniaturization levels.

I had suspected that ECM might have a factor in bomb results, but there was another possible explanation -- with lower Atk levels, bombs might tend to do damage in the low part of the range, versus the high part of the range with good Atk levels, as with beams. I couldn't tell if bombs were acting more like missiles with variable damage, or beams that only hit the ground. Your math is suggestive of the former.

Good set of turns, and a great report, Selentine. I knew we could crack open the Psilons if we hit them before they upgraded their missiles to something a little more effective than Nuclear Missiles. :)

The correct way to test the ECM vs Bomb theory: play a low-difficulty game with the Psilons, and build up a huge tech lead with a high-level ECM jammer that the AI doesn't have. Build a bomber with approximate attack level parity to the enemy's missile defense, and save the game.

Bomb a planet, and note the average damage from your bombs. Reload the save.

Give the victim your high-level ECM Jammer, wait a turn or two (to give them time to implement the jammer at their bases), then bomb the planet again with the exact same bomber stack. Their new and improved defense should greatly reduce the amount of damage you do.

I see it and will get to it tomorrow night.

JMB

Well, with the long weekend and all, I haven't been able to play yet... I'll play tomorrow morning (PST).

JMB

Nice turns Selentine and thanks for the detailed report!

Now, I just have to figure out what I am suppose to do... :hmm: I think I am out of my league playing with you guys... (I am learning quite a bit though... :thumbsup: )

Also, what sort of victory condition are we going for anyways?

0 - Send our Sil bombers to Ukko.

1 - We take out all but 6 bases on Ukko.

2 - We discover Armored Exoskeleton and begin researching Reduced Ind Waste 40%. The Alkari declare war on us. Over 100 troops are sent to Ukko.

3 - We take Ukko with 74 troops remaining and discover Terraforming +30 and Dolomite Crystals.

4 - The Mrrshans decide to threaten us...

5 - We steal controlled barren from the Mrrshans and frame the Alkari for it. We steal fusion bombs from the Alkari. The Psilions come beggin for peace, but I refuse. The Mrrshans declare war on us.

6 - Not much.

7 - We learn ECM jammer II. Begin researching BC8.

8 - We capture Tao and discover Megabolt cannon. The Geodes and Psilions come seeking peace, but I refuse.

9 - Not much.

10 - We capture Mentar and destroy the Psilions.

Sorry about the rather poor turns. I couldn't quite figure out how to damage the Silicoids and tried building a couple different gropo bombers, but they weren't particularly effective.

Here's the save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RBOSG22440.zip

JMB

Ok, I will see if I can get this tonight.

EDIT: Got it as of Tues night, but haven't yet had a chance to play it.

2440: Looks like we will win the next election no matter what we do, short of self-destructing. I set research to get a couple techs that might make a difference before the end, but probably won't - antimatter torps and reduced waste 40% for more miniaturization, and atmospheric terraforming for more votes. I also scrap some old ships so we have room for new designs.

IT: We capture Proteus and steal Class VII Deflectors, the only Silicoid tech we were missing. We also attempt to sabotage bases at Cryslon and fail. Gorra, our ultra-rich world, becomes poor. A sad day for Gorra but it matters not now.

2441: Our fleet moves on to Cryslon. I take advantage of our Advanced Space Scanners to simultaneously send in troops from Denubius and Primodius, backfilling from Gorra and Laan.

IT: We capture Cryslon, landing 110 troops against 140 defenders and taking the planet with 72 troops remaining.

2442: I send the fleet to Altair. Might as well get the good quality worlds rather than picking up hostile worlds that will take a while to stand up and don't offer much pop for more votes. We're at war with everyone anyway. Again I send pop from Denubius and Primodius, backfilling from elsewhere. The assault force will arrive in 2 turns.

IT: The Silicoids attack Ukko with a single huge Polaris, mounting nothing of consequence other than 13 death spores. It spores the colony, which loses some population, but not enough to endanger it.

2443: In anticipation of our success at Altair, I send troops to Fierias. They will arrive in 2 turns, the turn after our fleet captures Altair, giving the fleet enough time to reposition at Fierias.

IT: We capture Altair with no difficulty against the ineffectual Alkari fleet, comprised mostly of fusion bombers.

2444: Next target is Selia, a dead world held by the Silicoids. Troops are enroute and will arrive in 2 turns. Weapons and Construction tech are at 20% and waiting for a breakthrough while research is redirected to planetology at almost 100%.

IT: We capture Fierias, the Mrrshan fleet being ineffective at holding us off. Reduced Waste 40% comes in and we have no choice other than Industrial Tech 4 next.

2445: Or fleet moves to Selia. I could continue to coordinate invasions in this manner, as I have already gotten some spare huge ships moving up from Ukko and Mentar to replace those I have left on guard duty at Altair, Fierias, and Selia. However, there's not much point, so I don't bother. Nevertheless that should give an idea of how to coordinate an end-game invasion:
- Bring up troops from rear-line worlds to replenish front-line staging points
- Time the arrival of troops to coincide with the arrival of your fleet
- Rapid strikes at many planets in succession will confuse the enemy fleet and render it ineffectual
- Bring overwhelming force to any fight and you will suffer few casualties.

2446: Not much left to do. I could design a new ship with our new toys. I could capture any planets I want, or I could sterilize the galaxy. Instead I just decide to hit next turn a couple more times.

2449: Vote this turn. Silicoids have 6 votes left, Mrrshan 3, Alkari 1. We have 38. Conquest victory!

Congrats on bringing it home. Can we get a save from the penultimate turn, or failing that, a couple screenshots of the galaxy at the end?

Way to go Zed, an even rotation of turns. How could you plan that! Thanks for hosting the game, and thanks for all the detailed discussion, especially you and Selentine. :goodjob:

As requested:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/rbo-osg2-2450ad-1.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/rbo-osg2-2450ad-2.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/rbo-osg2-2450ad.zip

Sorry I didn't post the images at the end of my last turn as I normally do, but by the time I acheive this level of dominating position in a game I usually just want to end it. :) Either that, or else I am feeling perverse and want to set up a zoo where every AI race has one or two planets off in some corner together somewhere with pitiful tech, while I have everything else and research to the end of the tree. Usually this is while I am playing as Psilons, which I don't do often. :)

Thanks for hosting the game Zed. Between your comments and Selentine's, I learned a lot... Of course, I also learned that I don't really understand the game very well either... :)

Thanks also to everyone for playing!

JMB

Yeah, thanks for setting this up.

I think I knew all about the tactics we used in theory, but this really helped me to see how to put them into practice.