Bz7 died a long time ago and I went away from succession games. Time to come back.

The title says it all. Apart from map size and game variant nothing is fixed as of now.

This game will be in C3C. I would like to play in the latest patch but if the majority prefers 1.15b that is fine with me too.

Sign up and post your comments about civ type, map type etc.

Players:
Arizona_Steve
Mark1031
betazed
Greebley
Gengis Khan
jb1964

Roster Closed.

Since LotR13 runs relatively slowly, I'll sign up for this. Should be a fun challenge. I can play either 1.15 or 1.22 (I have both installed).

Steve, you are in.

Any ideas for which civ you would prefer?

Hmm... My top choices in no particular order...

Romans - Commercial trait will help with unit support and research. Militaristic for cheap barracks and more leaders. Awesome UU in the Legionary.
China - Not so sure about the usefulness of Industious with only five cities, although it gives us walls from the start. Militaristic and an awesome UU make it a good choice though.
Greece - Commercial and Scientific, plus a UU that will help us in early war. Although a Despotic golden age might be a problem.

I personally like the Romans and Chinese. Golden Age would be better timed with Chinese riders. Scientific may be useful for the extra tech at each era. Religious, Seafaring, Expansionist, Agricultural are all relatively useless for this varient.

Map choices. Continents, any percentage (60% ocean would be the biggest challenge). Temporate, Wet, 4 billion years (wet gives us more rivers, and therefore fewer aqueducts).

Opponents. Might want to avoid expansionist as we will meet them earlier. Avoid Aztecs and Inca for the same reason.

Ok. So Romans it is. We will wait for others to join but if you so desire you can start a map and post it. I am currently at work and can only do so when I get back (in about 4-5 hours).

Let's make it C3C 1.22.

I'd like to join. What difficulty level? monarch or emperor seems possible.

I'd like to join. What difficulty level? monarch or emperor seems possible.

Welcome aboard mark1031. It is an AWE (Always War Emperor). ;)

@Betazed - I'm also at work right now, so I'll leave it up to you to start the game.

Ok. Here is the start and save.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bz8_Start.JPG

This was the first start that came up. Looks good. We are on a river (as you said wet). We see a gold hill and we have a wheat. Let's get those 5 cities up and running.

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bz8,_4000_BC.SAV).

Edit: Steve when you get the chance play the first 20 turns. As others join I will update the roster. We will go 20 turns for the first player and then 10 turns per player after that.

OK. I'll play as soon as I get home (in about three hours).

Initial thoughts.

The start position is not ideal. We will need to get the maximum productivity out of each city that we settle. If there are coastal tiles within the city's 21, we need to settle on the coast otherwise we lose one food per coastal tile as a result of not being able to build a harbor.

I see no single move that will put us on both the coast and the river. It looks like one move either North or North-West will give us a city that is on the river, but does not contain coast in any of it's 21. Of these two North-West looks like the better option, as it will bring in the wheat and one bonus grassland immediately, while grabbing the other three visible bonus grasslands once it's borders expand. We will also get that gold hill in range, while avoiding the tundra to the North-West of it.

So I propose moving the settler one tile North-West. Any other thoughts, suggestions?

makes sense. We do not want a water tile for our capital unless it is on the coast. I think towards the north there is tundra. I can see a little white there. I just hope moving NW does not bring a whole set of tundra tiles into the capitals border. I guess it is a worthwhile risk.

Umm. One problem. I founded Rome and immediately noticed that accelerated production has been switched on. This is definitely non-standard for a succession game, and I can see all hell breaking loose once we meet another civ.

I would prefer to restart without the accelerated production. Do you want me to go ahead and generate a new start?

Umm. One problem. I founded Rome and immediately noticed that accelerated production has been switched on. This is definitely non-standard for a succession game, and I can see all hell breaking loose once we meet another civ.

I would prefer to restart without the accelerated production. Do you want me to go ahead and generate a new start?


Oops. Sorry. Yeah sure, go ahead and start with a new one.

Generated the following map:

Small, 70% Ocean, Continents.
Temporate, Wet, 4 Biilion Years.
Sedentary Barbarians.
Emperor Level.
Accelerated Production off.

I took the first map that was generated.

Looks good. Let's go with this one.

(0) 4000BC
I begin by moving the worker onto the bonus grassland. It looks like we have a nice riverside start that won't have any coastal tiles in it's 21, so we settle immediately.
Settling Rome reveals a goody hut just outside the border. Since we don't want to pop anything bad when the borders expand, I immediately order up a barracks.
Research set to Bronze Working @ 100%. Due in 19.

(5) 3750BC
Bonus Grassland mined. Road started.
I hit F10 at this time and note that our opponents are the Dutch, Japanese, Americans, Mongols and Spanish.

(8) 3600BC
Barracks complete, start warrior. Science down to 80%.

(9) 3550BC
Borders expand, and the friendly Gaul tribe give us maps of the region. We have a corner location (good for Always War), with wines and incense within easy reach.
Luxury tax up to 10%.

(10) 3500BC
Our worker has to lose a turn crossing the river to get to the wheat, but I wanted to get some production up and running first.
Luxuries to 10%, science back to 60%. Rome is now size 2.

(13) 3350BC
Our first warrior is trained, and he is sent out to scope a limited area around our capital. An archer is ordered up.

(15) 3250BC
Uh-oh. A Dutch warrior wanders up to our borders. This could get ugly fast. There is no way I will trade Warrior Code for the Bronze Working and Pottery he has on offer (particularly as we're due to get Bronze Working in 4 turns anyway). At least this means he'll send warriors our way for a while.
I have to pull our warrior back. Let's see if he goes for the worker.
War is declared on the Dutch.

(16) 3200BC
Mr Dutchman goes for our worker. I pull him back into Rome and our warrior joins him.

(17) 3150BC
The Dutch warrior fortifies where he stands. Waiting for his friends no doubt.
Rome grows to size 3 and 10% luxuries remains enough to keep the poplace happy.

(18) 3100BC
Begin forest chop to speed the next archer.
Science dropped to 30% getting us Bronze Working this turn, and netting us two gold.

(19) 3050BC
Bronze working has come in and I select The Wheel.
Rome builds an archer and starts another.
I send the warrior/archer pair to kill the Dutch warrior squatting in our territory. Luxuries have to go to 30% and science to 50%.

(20) 3000BC
The Dutch warrior moved next to Rome this turn, hoping for an easy conquest victory. Our archer takes him down without losing any hitpoints, and the warrior moves back into Rome. Luxuries go back to 10% and science to 70%.

Summary: We got contact a little too early for comfort. Expect the Dutch to send their starting units our way in the next ten turns or so.

Damn the Dutch! I wanted to get at least a little exploring done before the fighting. The goody hut outside Rome's borders did give us two luxury-grabbing city sites though. I'd go for the Incense first, as I have a feeling the Dutch are in that direction.

A mite unlucky about the Dutch. We could have used a few more turns worth of exploration.

Mark1031 you are up.

Betazed, I would also like to join the game.

got it. this could be interesting. How many units do they start with on Emperor?

Turn 1 Rome archer-->spear

Turn 2 Move warrior onto mountain.

Turn 3 4 Dutch warriors appear

Turn 4 spear-->spear warriors head for Rome 2 more warriors appear.

Turn 5 Battle of Rome pt1:

Vet archer kills reg warrior looses 2HP
Vet archer perfect kill promotes
Vet spear looses 2 HP to conscript warrior but wins
4th warrior doesn’t attack, retreats to reinforcements

Turn 6

Turn 7 Battle of Rome pt2
3 reg warriors at the gates
elite archer kills reg warrior
vet warrior kills reg warrior promotes
spear perfect defense, promotes

Turn 8 yikes a green warrior appears

Japan is up wheel, pot, mas, CB no deal possible. Declare war.

Turn 9 Japan warrior fortifies outside our boarder

Turn 10/11 no Japanese attack.

Summary: I think I took one too many turns. We beat 6 warriors with no losses and 3 promotions. The God’s of war were with us. We have 2 spears 3 archers and a warrior. We are building settler. However we are broke and the next player will have to increase taxes until we get another city. Both Japan and Dutch are coming from the S SW.

Welcome aboard Greebley.

betazed ---> Up
Greebley ----> On Deck

I will play my turns tonight.

Geeze. 2550BC and we're under attack by two civs.

From my Always War experience, archers are always preferable to spears in the early game. If we play this right, the foreign troops will never be in a position where they can attack our cities, so offensive troops are required.

I think that depends on how you want to play. For example, if I have a city with walls on a hill, the enemy archers will implode against the spears with only a small chance of loss. In that case, you can get better results by letting them beat their heads against the city if they have spears covering their archers or the advantage of good terrain. For attacking warriors, you get better odds with a fortified spear defending vs attack compared to an archer attacking the warrior. I will often use the defensive method if the situation seems to warrant it.

If there are predominantly archers coming at you, and the terrain doesn't have big defense bonuses, then ya, the archers will work well.

I also base my decision on the number of enemy civs. The more civs attacking, the better I feel it is to hold a defensive line and go for the best kill ratio you possibly can. With fewer civs then I think an agressive approach where you cripple your enemies with attacks on their cities is better; especially if you can do this before contact with the next civ is made.

Good points, Greebley.

Good luck gents. Should be interesting with the land you have showing thusfar. 2 lux are nice if they can be secured.

I played my turns.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bz8_2110BC.JPG

Write up follows soon.

Turn 1 - Worker starts roading. Warrior going to explore the barb hut.

Turn 2 - zzz

Turn 3 - Increase lux. Warrior pops hut. We get much needed 25 gold. I popped the hut since it was on a hill and we can well defend ourselves even if it had barbs.

Turn 4 - Settler -> Spear. Settler moves to West.

Turn 5 - We discover another lux. Spices to our west. Settler and spear moves to position. Worker starts roading connecting cities.

Turn 6 - Jap warrior moves in closer

Turn 7 - Start IW. I hope there is iron nearby.

Turn 8 - Jap warrior killed my archer

Turn 9 - Worker starts connecting spice.

Turn 10 - zzz...

We have three luxes nearby. If we can grab them then we have a very good position.

Arizona_Steve -----> On deck
Mark1031
betazed
Greebley -----> Up

Ok, I got it. I am thinking of putting a town in the area to grab the incense even though that means we have several desert tiles within our boundaries. If anyone has thoughts on this, I will be playing in a few hours. Not sure if my turn will be long enough to build said town, but we can discuss.

That is the direction that the Dutch and Japs are coming from so bring enough military. After IW I like a run for the GL which would be very useful in this variant, we're already behind a bunch of techs.

I agree on the importance of the GLib. Don't think we need to start a run on it quite yet, but soonish.

Preturn: All looks good. Going to move a unit to give me advanced warning of incoming AI.

IBT: All is quiet

2070 BC:

IBT: Umm... American scout? I don't remember Americans being mentioned before. We have nothing to trade them and they are up 4 techs. I declare them to be scum.

2030 BC: I move toward the scout.

IBT: The scout flees our righteous wrath.

1990 BC: I continue to the hill to give me a view.

IBT: Scout flees
Rome: Settler->Spear.

1950 BC: Send settler and 2 archers to settle near the incense.

IBT: We get spices.

1910 BC: Still no enemies to be seen.

IBT:
Veii: Barracks->Archer

1870 BC: I check diplo - the japanese and Netherlands both only have 3 cities. The most probable explanation I can think of for both the lack of incoming enemy troops and their small size is that Japan and the Netherlands are at war. This would be a real piece of luck if true. Normally I would expect the game to be really nasty with 2 enemies met so early.

IBT: The Scout shows up somewhere else

1830 BC: Continue to move to settle the new city.

IBT: Japan is finally sending troops - 3 regular warriors.

1790 BC: Good lord: We have a fourth luxury nearby! We are going to have 4 luxes within our 5 cities. The odds of that must be pretty darn low.

IBT: Warriors move to avoid my archers (the pests). We complete Iron Working and start Masonry (the all important walls and ability for prebuilds).
Rome: Spear->Archer

1750 BC: We have Iron within our 5 city area :band:
I build Antium on a hill for defense. It is near the incense.
Our spear goes and kills the scout. Oops a real weed - I didn't adjust Rome last turn so we only got 3 food instead of 4 - this means we grow a turn later.

Notes:
I will stop here to even out the turns (which will then go 1500, 1250, 1000, etc)
I did not move the archers or the Elite warrior that found the gems and is next to a hut. The next player can pop the hut. I would wait for the spear to get back first though (It killed the scout so the town isn't defended). He can also decide if he wants to fortify them or chase the workers.
4 Lux and Iron is excellent for a 5CC. We could play 100 games and not get that.

I will post a picture in the next post. We should decide where city 4 and 5 should go.

-----------------------------------------------------
Betazed, We played Meli with a twist where we could capture 3 (or 7) cities in a turn keep them to get a second (or third) army and disband by turn end. I kind of like this because it is fun to try for the second army. That variant is not true 5CC however. Are we playing with the standard 5CC or are we allowing the capture rule? I am happy to go with which ever way you want to play it.

Here is a picture of our current empire:

Betazed, We played Meli with a twist where we could capture 3 (or 7) cities in a turn keep them to get a second (or third) army and disband by turn end. I kind of like this because it is fun to try for the second army. That variant is not true 5CC however. Are we playing with the standard 5CC or are we allowing the capture rule? I am happy to go with which ever way you want to play it.

I think that is fair. As long as we abandon the city at the end of the turn we should be good. Having an extra army makes a huge difference to the game.

Arizona_Steve -----> Up
Mark1031 -----> On Deck
betazed
Greebley

Got it. Looks like tomorrow will be an evening dedicated to Civ, as I am probably up in LotR13 as well.

I think that is fair. As long as we abandon the city at the end of the turn we should be good. Having an extra army makes a huge difference to the game.

Cool! I think the game will still be quite the challenge even with the second army to help (assuming we can get it :D )

Glad to see you back in SGs betazed!

I had just joined CFC when you were doing your Diety AW game, talk about mindblowing. I think I was was playing Cheiftan at the time.:lol:

Too bad the rosters filled. Ah well, good luck guys!

Too bad the rosters filled. Ah well, good luck guys!

Gengis, we are still just four players in this game and could definitely use another; so if you want to join then you are very welcome.

Just one thing. I notice that there's a considerable overlap between our three cities. While this is the preferred strategy for Always War (we can get our units from one city to another in one turn), I'm not sure it's going to help us with 5CC.

I seems likely to me that this will go into the Industrial Age. I'd definitely like to see size 20 cities with no overlap once we get to hospitals, simply to maximize production of units to support our wars. At this point the overlap will hurt us.

Any comments on this? I would plan at this point to move our cities to sites where there is no overlap. I would rather do this now than later.

If I have counted correctly (have I?) I see only a 2 square overlap between city 1 and city 2 and no overlap with city 3. IMHO, that is not too big a overlap and we can live with this as long as our city 4 and 5 has no overlap.

Count me in guys. First time playing with any of you(IIRC) so it'll be a learning experiance that's for sure.

I'll check out the save in a couple hours & chime in with my 2c, sort me in where ever.

@Ghenghis - If you have time, jump in before me. I'm also up in LotR13, so I'll play that one first (it'll take me a while too as it's a passive AWM in the Middle Ages).

Welcome aboard GK. :) I have put you at the end of the roster. If you can grab it before Steve go ahead and do it.

Arizona_Steve ------> Can play now
Mark1031 -----> On deck
betazed
Greebley
Gengis Khan ----> Can play now

I'm home and sitting at the computer, so I'll take my turns now.

My only thought on moving a city is that this is a bit difficult to place a city to grab the gems or to place a city North of Veii without overlap.

Moving Veii one square west would be of benefit as it grabs both the gems and spices and allows for a coastal town to the North as well as removing the mentioned overlap.

I am unsure if the cost of doing this would be benificial though. We can't really afford throwing away 2 pop points on something that long term. We could consider moving Veii later on. It is not that hard to build back a town in a 5CC.

/delurking - I don't think the overlap matters at all. If this game gets to sanitation you'll have plenty of cash to abandon through settler rushing and rebuilding again. What would be built in the city your abandoning? Rax,and possibly a library and a temple. All quickly rushed builds. You should have you area under control by that time or it won't matter anyway. Getting the lux is nice but manueverability is crucial so the distance between them matters a lot.

(0) 1750BC
I'm going to go along with Betazed's opinion and not move in the direction of moving the two non-capital cities. Hopefully by the time it becomes an issue we'll have cleared the foreigners off our island and be on the way to clearing the other continent.
As for our two final cities, I would like to get two on the coast to the North of Veii. These cities will ensure that both the iron and the two gems are within our borders.
One wine will be brought within our borders when Rome expands again. So there is little point in settling there.
Looks like most of our units are unmoved. I risk our elite warrior on a goody hut and you guessed it - angry barbs. Our warrior does get some defensive bonus from the forest though.
Swap Rome to settler and gain a few shields by moving a citizen from an unimproved grassland into a forest.

IBT
Barbarians all scatter withoug attacking our warrior.
Two more Japanese warriors appear, in addition to the three that are already visible.

(1) 1725BC
I'm able to push science up to 90% to get Masonry in five turns with a 1 gold/turn deficit.
Our worker moves one tile South-East and starts mining the bonus grassland next to Veii. The movement will let our warrior reach him before the barbarian does.

IBT
Looks like the Japanese are headed towards Rome.

(2) 1700BC
I pull our elite archer back towards Rome.

IBT
The barbarian warrior fortifies on a mountain. Looks like he can't even be bothered to go after our worker.

(3) 1675BC
I move our warrior onto the roaded wheat so he'll be able to attack next turn.

IBT
OK, so now the Japanese are going for our worker.

(4) 1650BC
Elite archer attacks one of the Japanese warriors in the stack of three. We win, but lose three hitpoints. I bring a spear out of Rome to cover.
I cannot speed up growth in Rome, so I leave things set up as is and get the settler this turn.
Luxuries to 10% for one turn.

IBT
Barbarian warrior wakes from his 50 year nap, and moves towards our worker. Two Japanese warriors are also in range.

Rome - Settler -> Archer

(5) 1625BC
I cover the worker and elite warrior with another spearman. The elite archer moves back to Rome to heal.

IBT
OK. This sucks. The two Japanese archers move onto our silks for a pillage.

(6) 1600BC
Back science to 30% as Masonry is due this turn.
Forgot to back luxuries down to 0% after the settler was built, so I do this now.
I kill one of the spice pillagers with the elite warrior. Decide not to risk the elite spear on the second.

IBT
As predicted, the spice road is pillaged. We need more offence.
Masonry comes in. Ceremonial Burial selected, 4 turns @ 70%. Some early temples will help claim more land.

Veii - Archer -> Archer (one turn late)

(7) 1575BC
I decide to fortify the archer in Veii in the hope that our Japanese friends will get skewered. There is also a Dutch archer on his way.

IBT
Two Japanese warriors attack Veii. Both die.

(8) 1550BC
Nothing to report

IBT
Dutch archer moves up next to Rome.
Barbarian warrior moves to pillage the mine next to Veii.

Rome - Archer -> Archer

(9) 1550BC
Veteran archer in Rome defeats the Dutch archer outside.
Elite warrior in Veii kills Barbarian warrior.
Veteran archer in Veii kills Japanese warrior.
Push luxuries to 20% to offset misery-guts in Veii.

IBT
Rome's borders expand, bringing wines within reach.

Antium - worker -> worker.

(10) 1550BC
With no foreign troops nearby, I move a spearman to cover our fourth city when it is founded.
Luxuries down to 0% now that military police are back in the cities.
Science down to 50% - Ceremonial Burial due this turn.

The settler is currently standing on a bonus grassland and should settle one tile to the North-West.
There is a spearman in the mountain nearby. He should head to city #4 for defence.
I would suggest going for Mathematics next to get us some catapults.

BZ8-1500BC.zip (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/BZ8-1500BC.zip)

I placed pink dot and light blue dot at two sites that would make good use of our land. There is a little overlap, but this shouldn't matter.

A temple will be required to get the gems in range.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/BZ8-1500BC.jpg

I think after the current research finishes we should start with writing and make a beeline for Philo. We can still research it first and take Lit as the free tech and make an early start on the TGL.

We definitely need more offensive troops especially in out incense town.

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031 -----> Up
betazed -----> On Deck
Greebley
Gengis Khan

Oh, the dot map looks good to me.

I also agree that the dot map is good and what I was envisioning. It is unfortunate that the shape of our land does not lend itself to non-overlapping towns, but I also feel laying them down quickly and defensively is more important than worrying about post-hospital constraints.

Sorry guys, was at work. Dotmap looks good so far, the only problem I see is that enemies can march right up to our Gem city walking along defensive terrain the whole way until we get that forest chopped.

I havent seen anyone coming from that direction. It may be a peninsula. That would give us plenty of time for chopping.

We will want a spear on the gems when we get the road up.

got it. will play shortly

We definitely need more offensive troops especially in our incense town.
Actually the incense town of Antium was completely ignored by enemy troops, who preferred to head up towards Veii and cause trouble there. As for city #5 (light blue dot), I would chop that forest at the first opportunity and get a temple going. This will remove the defensive terrain, and bring gems in range quicker.

Pre turn: Switch Rome to settler. Switch Ant to walls

1475BC: get CB, start pot in 4 @80% start to explore mountain area

1450BC Found Cumae start Rax, 2 Barbs die on spear in mountain

1425BC Lux to 10% Rome size 4, Dutch settler/spear sighted. Send out 2 archers.

1400BC Wow peninsula contains site with 3 wheat and fish. I think this should be our 5th site. Veii Arch-> spear

1375BC Elite archer beats spear looses 3 HP we have 2 slaves.

1350BC pottery in switch to writing in 13. Rome settler->granary. Send settler to wheat site

1325BC Veii size4 lux ->10%

1300BC 2 Dutch archers appear by Ant

1275BC Dutch at the gates of Ant as walls complete. Vet Archer looses to reg archer reduces to 1 HP. Last 2 archers win

Summary: Not much action. Exploration reveals we have only 1 front to defend and a very nice city site. Settler is on wheat site and should found where it is. Will be a little isolated for a while until we get a road over. There is an archer and spear in Rome that should head to the front. All 3 civs have writing. I would go max to lit (wouldn’t count on philo 1st) and GL. I wouldn’t want to loose it. We can pump some workers from Rome after granary and from wheat city to get things connected and then pump Rome up for the GL build.

CAREFULL I forgot to check f1. Veii will riot if you don't up lux. :eek:

Got it.

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031
betazed -----> Up
Greebley -----> On Deck
Gengis Khan

Hmmm.... Mark if it were me I would not have researched pottery now. All our settlers have been created we can very well wait for our granaries (which we may not even have time to build right now). I would have gone straight to writing as I suggested in my post earlier. We may not get Philo now but if we went to writing then I am pretty sure we could have snagged Philo and taken Lit as our free tech. Anyhooo.... what is done is done.

Pre turn :Adjust lux.

Turn 1 - Neapolis formed at wheat. While the Neapolis site is good, it is a bit too far for my comfort. We will see. Starts on a worker.

Turn 2 - Netherlands spear decimated.

Turn 3 - zzz

Turn 4 - Vei Archer -> Temple. We need it to bring the iron in our radius. Aother spear dispatched.

Turn 5 - Slaves move onto the wine.

Turn 6 - Writing -> Philo (due in 10).

Turn 7 - Netherlands archer dispatched.

Turn 8 - Spices connected. We reduce lux.

Turn 9. - zzz

Turn 10 - zzz

I think we should commit our capital to a prebuild for Glib. And use all the rest of our cities for troops.

Here is a pic.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bz8_950BC.JPG

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031
betazed
Greebley -----> Up
Gengis Khan -----> On Deck

A few things. Our city layout has changed. While the terrain of the last city is definitely better than the dot map we had thought of, it is a bit far for quick defense and offense. we will see.

Wines will be connected next turn you can reduce lux then. Spices is already back on line. There is a forest chop happening near Rome which should finish the temple sooner. We should switch it to Pyramids IMHO, and then to GLIB as Lit comes in. If we get it for free great, otherwise we go for Lit.

We may want to move an archer back from the incense city back towards Rome seeing that a spear is headed that way.

Good luck. I´ll be lurking this one.

Great start for this difficult variant! Let's hope your luck doesn't leave you. I'll be lurking..

P.S: If you put a chop into the temple you won't be able to change it to a wonder.

I did pottery because it was only 4 turns and I would like to see Rome @ 12. I actually didn't think about the philo race as I typically don't do that but just go for Lit. Sorry hope we get it. I would not chop any forest at Rome as the forest is good to have for shields to build GL in despo. We shouldn;t have to defend wheatville til MM and then only weak AI sea assults I would get the road over the mountains soon though. I would spit out a fair number of workers and then fold them back into Rome for GL build. Well thats my $02. Looks like we are in very nice position though for this kind of game.

Ok, I got it and will play this evening.

P.S: If you put a chop into the temple you won't be able to change it to a wonder.

The temple build is not for the GLib pre build. It will finish long before that. The temple build is to help with the lux tax. We have finished pumping settlers and now Rome can grow a bit.

I actually didn't think about the philo race as I typically don't do that but just go for Lit. Sorry hope we get it.

Don't worry about it. :) Even if we do not get it we are still ok. However, just as an FYI I rarely miss out on the philo gambit playing at Emperor and in many cases I manage to get it in Deity too and then trade Lit around to get into tech parity. It is a real cool thing in C3C. Sometimes I have got a SGL on getting Philo, taken Lit and built the GLib. :) Suddenly the game becomes half the difficulty.

Well we couldn't have asked for better terrain around us for an AWE, having to defend one border with only token "galley defense" in our other cities will help out immensely.

Betazed, I think you missed two turns. 950 is 12 turns. not that it really matters

Preturn: Things look good. I do wake an archer and spear to deal with the incoming spear. I also think about temples, but decide they are not yet necessary. One in Antium would be nice though to expand the border. That allows us to move fast on roads while the AI cannot.

IBT: Dutch Spear shows up

925 BC: Wines connected. Lux to 0. This is good as we were low on gold and losing to per turn. Now we are breaking even.

IBT: Another Dutch Spear and Japanese warrior.

900 BC: Move units to cover a worker on the incense

IBT: Japanese fortifies

875 BC: Decide to change Neapolist to a temple. It needs the expansion more than a long barracks run. It could get + 5 food which should be good for something. A spear climbs a hill and see a choke point. Think I will go for it. Lux back up. Attack spears and warrior and win. There is an unprotected Japanese settler.

IBT: 2 Dutch archers are seen.
Rome:Temple->Worker
Veii: Temple->Worker

850 BC:
A spear is next to the archers to try to catch 2 workers.. Lower science. We have 3 gold losing 1 and are 2 turns away.

IBT: The archers attack the spear and lose. The spear has 3 hp.

825 BC: Decide to go after the Japanese settler. Get two workers that split up so one can escape alive. Unfortunately, there is another dutch archer who may kill our spear. Odds are with us as we are on a hill and we both have 3 hp. Science to 10% to get philosophy in 1. Yep, we missed it by a single turn. That is why I could turn it down so much, though of course the unmet civs might have it already.

IBT: Both archers attack the spear leaving the workers alone (even though they are unguarded). It manages to survive (that is 4 archers total it has survived).
Rome:Worker->Pyramids
Veii: Worker->Spear

800 BC: Science back up to 70% Lit in 16. Injured spear retreats.

IBT: 2 Dutch Spear and Archer are now in view.

775 BC: We have a very tenative closure of the choke. We should get iron next turn with temple expansion.

IBT: Ah yes; Legions not Swords. Even better.

750 BC: I change the three unit building towns to Legionaires. We will get 2 in 4 turns. Going to take my full 10 turns.

IBT: Archer attacks our fortified spear on the hill. There is a 1 square choke, but I think I prefer the 2 squares as they are hills (I will post a picture in the next post).

730 BC:

IBT: Boats are going around our choke.

710 BC: Advance an archer.

Notes:
I think we should trigger our GA rather than wait
1) The 3 defense will really help us hold the choke and allow us to go on the offensive sooner rather than waiting.
2) It will speed the building of the GLib and gets us Legionaries so we can go for a pre-pike attack.

Beware of boats coming around At least one legion may be important to defend our homelands from landing troops.

Gengis, You are up. Good Luck

I tried to mark the last known location of enemy boats. I am not 100% sure I got the civ right.

I marked where I planned to irrigate. I originally started replacing the mine, but realized that was suboptimal.

You can see the choke in the picture.

Betazed, I think you missed two turns. 950 is 12 turns. not that it really matters


:wallbash: I always manage to do that. In the heat of the game I lose count.


I think we should trigger our GA rather than wait
1) The 3 defense will really help us hold the choke and allow us to go on the offensive sooner rather than waiting.
2) It will speed the building of the GLib and gets us Legionaries so we can go for a pre-pike attack.


Agree. We should definitely trigger our GA. So I see three luxes connected, iron connected, and a choke point to defend with maybe a galley or two behind us. Things couldn't have been better. Well played Greebley.

Arizona_Steve -----> On Deck
Mark1031
betazed
Greebley
Gengis Khan -----> Up

Decide to change Neapolist to a temple. ... It could get + 5 food which should be good for something.

This screams out "worker farm" to me. +5 food/turn +5 shields/turn and a granary will make this city pop out a worker every two turns. This will allow us to speed improvements throughout our land and get our other four cities to size 12 as soon as possible.

I would suggest getting the granary up and running once the temple is built.

We could :whipped: that granary

Got it.

I marked where I planned to irrigate. I originally started replacing the mine, but realized that was suboptimal.


I'm guessing your in a couple SGs with akots, huh?

Playing now, should be up in a couple hours. Or in the morning at the latest, if I don't finish in time tonight.

Actually I am unsure if I have played with him though I have read some games with him in it albeit not very closely. What part of the statement made you think of him?

Gengis, did you get a chance to play your turns?

I just downloaded to play around for a break from GOTM31 and the file gave me a lot of errors and never loaded. I'm hoping it's just me.
Enjoying the game guys. Looing forward to the outcome.

EDIT- I went back 3 past saves and they give me the same repetitive errors. It must be on my side. Now I'm worried. This is turning into spam so I'm signing off. Good luck again.

Barbslinger, We are using 1.22 here. I am guessing you tried to load with 1.15

Thats it!. Thanks Greebley.

Sorry for the delay guys, it was a very busy weekend.

I might have to be replaced, because I'm still running 1.15. I'm going to try to reinstall C3C with a different directory so I can run 1.22 & 1.15 at the same time, but knowing me it won't turn out well. I'll let you know if it works out & I can rejoin you in a day or so, but until then just skip me. I don't want to hold the game up anymore.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Arizona_Steve -----> Up
Mark1031 -----> On Deck
betazed
Greebley
Gengis Khan -----> Skipped

If you can install 1.22 over 1.15, then you can copy your civ IIl and upgrade the copy ( to copy (windows) I just went into my base infogrames directory; used ctrl-c and ctrl-v on the civilization directory to give me "copy of Cilvilization III".)
You can then just apply the 1.22 full patch to the "copy of Civ..." directory.

The only drawback to this method is that you need enough disk space for 2 copies of the saved games you have; at least until you delete the saves from the second copy. You don't need two copies of each and it may be confusing so I would do that if you try this method.

The nice bit is there is no reinstalling.

I am also running two versions of Conquests. In my case, I simple installed version 1.15, then copied the whole Civ directory to another directory. Then I installed 1.22 over my original directory. I've been playing with this set-up for a month or so without any issues.

In the age of 200+GB hard drives, I don't think that disk space will be much of an issue.

Oh, and "got it"...

Hey gang, if you're still looking for players I would like to join. Drop me a note one way or the other.

Thanks,

jb

ok, jb you are the sixth player. I added you to the end of the roster.

I think that should be enough. Six should be a full sized roster. :)

(0) 710BC
I don't have the forum page in front of me so I'm going to assume that the Pyramids in Rome is a prebuild for the Great Library. I see there's legionaries on their way, but with our defence looking a little weak, I'll probably use the first couple to bolster defences in our cities. When those galleys wandering up our shores finally land something, I'd like to have some troops waiting for them. I have a feeling those might be settler pairs though.
I move one citizen in Rome onto a roaded grassland to gain an extra commerce. There is also no point in mining the iron tile when we have bonus grassland next to Cumae unmined. The worker is awakened and moved.
Drop science down to 60% giving us positive income.

IBT
We lose a spear on the chokepoint to an attacking archer.

(1) 690BC
I'm worried about galley attacks, particularly at undefended Antium. So I decide to remove the blockage of the chokepoint for now, until we get some legionaries. I will probably place a couple of archers on the incense hill to attack enemy troops that move onto the adjacent plains.

IBT
Veii - Legionary -> Legionary
Antium - Legionary -> Legionary

(2) 670BC
I move one legionary towards Neapolis, while the second one remains at Antium. Two archers are placed on the incense hill.

IBT
Galleys move North. A Dutch archer fortifies on a chokepoint hill. Waiting for his friends no doubt.

(3) 650BC
Workers begin the Antium irrigation project.

IBT
More galley movements. Nothing else.
Spain completes the Oracle in Madrid. I hope no-one gets the Pyramids before we get literature.
A Japanese galley appears by the chokepoint.

Cumae - Legionary -> Legionary

(4) 630BC
Neapolis gets a legionary for additional defence. I'm also going to leave the new Legionary at Cumae, as there is only one spear there.
F3 shows that we are paying unit support costs.

IBT
Our Japanese friends land two horsemen next to Antium.

(5) 610BC
Disgusting. Our veteran legionary cannot even beat a veteran horseman on plains :mad:
An archer beats the second veteran horsie, but is redlined.
I bring out the elite spear from Antium and the goddamn Japanese horseman redlines and retreats :mad: :mad:
I split our four slave workers into two groups of two and send them to separate tiles. We will lose two slaves during the interturn.


IBT
Well the stupid horseman goes for the two workers in range of a spear and two archers. We do lose use of a mined grassland and Antium starves as a result.

(6) 590BC
An elite archer removes the final Japanese horseman.

IBT
Now here come the Dutch. Two spears and two archers come into view on the chokepoint.
The road to Neapolis is completed. Gems are connected to our empire.

(7) 570BC
Move troops back into Antium.

IBT
Two archers and a spear move next to Antium.
Dutch build what looks like Eindhoven near Neapolis.

Veii - Legionary -> Legionary

(8) 550BC
Veteran archer kills the spear next to Antium. Antium now has three elite archers.
Two elite archers kill the two veteran Dutch archers. Thanks to the road there I'm able to fortify a spearman on top of the final elite archer.

IBT
One Dutch spear moves onto the incense hill. I think I saw other troops heading towards Veii, which will build it's legionary before they get there.

(9) 530BC
Another quiet turn. There is a leagionary heading to Antium who will fortify there next turn.

IBT
Japanese come begging for peace. I tell them where to stick it.
Two Dutch archers move next to Antium. A Dutch spearman stands on our incense.

(10) 510BC
OK. Our legionaries are &^%$*& useless. Our legionary can only take one point off a spearman before dying :mad:
An elite archer kills off the spearman.
The two Dutch archers are dispatched by more elite archers.

Note that the Dutch spearman on the incense hill is covering another spear and a settler.

The Save - 510BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/BZ8-510BC.zip)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/BZ8-510BC.jpg

That's pretty bad RNG luck there steve. Oh well! Hopefully we will have better luck later.

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031 -----> Up
betazed ----> On deck
Greebley
Gengis Khan
jb1964

Before when you had 2 stacks on the hills to the south the dutch were on the real chokepoint and blocking anyone else. I don't know how the AI decides when to use galleys but I would have thought if they have no land route to you then they would be far more likely to use a sea route.
Just a thought.

Preturn: no changes
490: Japanese horse lands near Antium and is dispatched by elite archer which loses 2 HP.

470: literature comes in, switch Rome to great library. Turnoff science.

450: move Archer and spear to choke. America founds Miami near Antium. We'll get to that in due time.

430: Japanese Archer/horse pair lands at Veii. They are taken out by an Archer and elite warrior. We're still a bit thin on the back lines.

410: kill the Dutch settler/spear pair with elite Archer. Lose spear at the choke to a regular Archer and retreat our Archer to the hill.

370: Japanese land horse/Archer pair near Rome. Vet Archer loses to horse but takes off 2 HP. Move spear to cover workers. Move nearby legions into Rome. Archer kills horse at choke. Lux to 10%. Rome is now size 9.

350: spear covering workers survives Archer attack down to one HP, whew. Well I guess we wanted our golden age now. I was trying to put it off until a few more tiles around Rome were improved but here we go. Legion kills injured horse near Rome and we enter a great golden age. Kill regular American Archer with vet Archer near Miami.

330 Spain, an unknown and distant country completes the statue of Zeus. Good for them. Moving legions to the choke.

310 establish defensive border on the hills at the choke.

290 lose elite Archer vs. vet Archer at the choke.

Summary: we have 15 turns remaining of our golden age although we're not getting much out of it in despotism. Great library is due in 6. Defenses are holding but still a bit thin back home. We currently own the hills at the choke from which we can defend or attack troops on the choke. We have to build up more troops before going on the attack.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55866&stc=1

Is anybody else building the GL? If not then we have got it.

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031
betazed -----> Up
Greebley ----> On Deck
Gengis Khan
jb1964

This is my "got it". Will play tonight.

I had one game where noone was building the GLib with two or three turns to go (I think it was 2). The AI managed to get Literature, complete a wonder causing a cascade that switched to the Great Library and completed it all in one turn. Boy was I mad.

Since then I haven't counted on any wonder unless the number of turns was one. I do agree we are very likely to get it though.

It is too bad our RNG luck was so aweful. It is why catapults are so important in AWE. Knocking hitpoints off the spear before attacking greatly improves the odds.

If we don't get the GL I'll be shocked and pisssed in short order.

Good job holding down the fort. I played from the previous save and fared even worse on the RNG. I think my first turn will be a catious one.

I agree we need to shore up the backyard and grab/deny the tactically advantageous terrain.

IBT: Two Netherland archers commit suicide against two fortified legionarries on the choke hill.

Turn 1 270 BC: Elite legionnnary kills American archer.

Turn 2 250 BC: Leg kills american sowrd. Elite archer kills american warrior.

IBT: Dutch wants peace. Yeah right! :rolleyes: Palace gets a courtyard.

Turn 3: 230 BC: Japs lands a horse near incense town. Gets decimated.

Turn 4: 210 BC: zzz

IBT; We finish the GL.

Turn 5: One legionary dies againt an american spear. The next one takes it down.

IBT: We learn Myst, Math, HBR, Col, Poly, Currency, Republic and Monarchy

Turn 6: Elite legionnary takes out American spear. City autorazed. Trajan born. [party] :band: We should make a legionnary army out of him.

I revolt. Pull a 5 turn anarchy! Ok I guess.

Turn 7: Dutch ELite archer sacrifices himself againt legionnary.

Turn 8: zzz

Turn 9: zzz

Turn 10: zzz..

Anarchy should end next turn. Obviously we should go to Monarchy. Create some legions and take the army into Dutch territory. Let's take teh war to them. Attacks have dropped to a trickle. Everybody wants peace. So I guess we can easily go on the offensive now.

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bz8_90_BC.SAV)

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031
betazed
Greebley ----> Up
Gengis Khan ------> On Deck
jb1964

got it and will start playing.


Great work all on getting the GLib. I would not want to play this variant without it (or rather, I would play it, I wouldn't expect to win).

We have not seen a single Dutch sword or horse. :) This means that their best offense is archer and best defense is pike. We should be easily be able to take them out. :hammer:

Preturn: I make a Legion army. I don't move it so it can heal (I used the injured elite*).

Oh one comment on an earlier comment: Mining iron does make a difference. It is the one combination that gives 3 shields in Despot. Am I wrong? Not that it is high priority - I am just clarifying the statement.

IBT: We enter the middle ages. We become a Monarchy. We have an Army. We are in our Golden Age. Life is good.

70 BC: Rome needs a market so we can lower Lux to 0, but I want a legionary first (to deal with that town on OUR peninsula).

IBT:
Rome: Legionary->Market

50 BC: Army heads into the unknown entering english territory. I kill a spear on the way

IBT: We should build the Heroic Epic. A spear and warrior land

30 BC: We kill the spear and warrior without loss. One legion promotes to elite. I attack The Hague with the army and kill 2 spear.

IBT: Pyramids are built by Barcelona.

10 BC: Attack The Hague and kill 2 archers to raze the city.

IBT: Lots of Boats buzzing around like bees.

10 AD: Army heals

IBT:
Rome: Market->Legion

30 AD: Army heals. I kill a settler and spear that landed.

IBT:
Antium: Temple->Catapult
Cumae: Legion->Catapult
Veii: Legion->Market

50 AD: I raze the Dutch town of Eindhoven (the one on our Peninsula) We get 2 elite out of it. Army heads into Dutch territory killing an archer (there are several units nearby but I am ignoring those. I hope to pillage and destroy. I kill an archer, but not a horse.

IBT: Dutch replaces that razed city. The horse attacks and loses vs a legionary.

70 AD: I find Amsterdam. It is really close to our lands! Defended by spears so we may be able to wear it down if we want.

IBT: Not much

90 AD: Move 1 square to pillage and kill one spear in Amsterdam. I switch Neapolis to a Aquaduct.

IBT: The wonder cascade ends as 4 wonders are built.
Rome: Rome->Heroic Epic.
Cumae: Catapult->Aquaduct

110 AD: Attack Amsterdam killing another spear and our army needs to heal (I assume everyone knows armies heal in enemy territory?)

Notes:
I think that was 10 turns.

I am inclined to try to destroy Amsterdam while they have no pike.

The wonder cascade ended. We could try for Leo, Sistine, or Sun for denial purposes.

We need workers. I also worked on getting access to all the whole peninsula with workers and towns like Antium are suffering. (Not quite sure why we stopped irrigation to the town, but I didn't do any better and it really needs it).

Here is a picture. I feel we should go for razing Amstredam, but the other option is to just pillage and ignore towns. I killed 2 spear so far.

I too forgot about the irrigation plan of Antium. :blush: We should do that immediately.

Also on the Choke we should build fortresses (yes we need more workers). Razing Amsterdam should give us a few.

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031
betazed
Greebley
Gengis Khan ------> Up
jb1964 ------> On Deck

I'm walking out the door in about 15, when I get back in about 6 hours I'll let you guys know if my quest was successful or not.

Consider this a "got it" until my next post.

I started the irrigation around Antium, but had to stop when the Japs landed two horsemen next to the workers.

Great set.

No, I did not know that armies heal in enemy territory.

If you have already taken out two spears then my vote would be to work it the rest of the way into the dust. If it was me and an AI Legion army picked up and walked away from my capitol I would breath a sigh of relief. Taking Amsterdam out before pikes is a great idea.

This 5 city limit always war scenario is interesting.

Oh ya, I played the turns out a bit and the irrigation did get interruped by the Japanese horsemen. Although to describe my results as "interrupted" would have been kind.

I tried to dual install, got an error somewhere and have been spending the last 2 hours reinstalling Civ. I'm going to try again once I get 1.15 back up & running correctly but I'm afraid I'll have to ask for a skip. If it doesn't work this time, I'll find you guys a replacement player. Sorry again.

ok, gk.

Arizona_Steve ----> on deck
Mark1031
betazed
Greebley
Gengis Khan ------> Skipped
jb1964 ------> Up

Got it.

BTW, zipping these files is more of an annoyance than it's worth for me. Any objections to me just posting the .sav file?

Got a date w/ the wife tonight but tomorrow is open for me so I'll probably post on Saturday.

.sav is fine with me.

Fine with me too. If I forget just remind me again as I usually zip.

I attached the SAV for your convenience.

Later I found that zipping the file is pretty easy w/ XP. I just bought my first XP system this month and am still learning. I'll zip the files as well since it certainly can't hurt.

Ya, with XP it is really easy. I generally zip it while browsing for the save (I do a right click & choose compress) when uploading. Very nice as there is no "extra step" to compress.

I will be out for the weekend. So if I come up before Tuesday please skip me. Also someone please maintain the roster.

Thanks.

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bz8_AD280.SAV)
Didn't compress because it was only worth 10k. These saves seem pretty efficient.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Turn10.JPG

Pre turn…
Army needs to heal up some so I’ll reinforce next turn.

IBT: OK, we have no less than 7 ships buzzing our boarders. The Americans bring 5 swords towards our army.

Turn 1: I think discretion is the better part of valor so I move the Army to the hills to heal.

IBT: Dutch land a SoD consisting of a single regular archer. Yikes!

Turn 2: Neapolis legion -> cat, Veil cat -> cat
Vet legion redlines against the unfortified archer on open ground and promotes to elite.

IBT: The Americans seem to have a RoP with the Dutch as the stack of swords (5) are right on our butt.

Turn 3
Neapolis is maxed out on population so I switch over to an aqueduct and move the workers to our less developed cities. Lux down to 10%.
Our Army is now perched on our hill and will reinforce next turn.
Japan has 4 cities, America 8, and the Dutch 5.
We’re still technologically advanced. All hail the GL.

IBT: Ships move. No sign of our sword buddies.

Turn 4
Infrastructure and reinforcements. Compared to the Dutch and Japs we’re strong. Compared to the Yanks we’re average.
MM Rome to get growth from 4 to 1 turn

IBT: Japs want peace and I dismiss them. A Dutch spear is headed towards our hills.

Turn 5
Infrastructure and troop movement. The Army is up to 12/14

IBT: Dutch spear steps up to the base of our hills and certain death. Bravery? No, foolishness.

Turn 6
Two cats bring the Dutch vet spear down two notches and I finish him off with an elite archer who loses 2hp. Our fully healed army and an elite legion join the wounded archer on the plains.

IBT
Japs land a horse, Americans land a spear and a settler. Morons.

Turn 7
Antium cat -> cat in 5, Veii market -> legion in 3
Elite legion from Veii kills horse and takes one hit.
Vet Legion attacks regular American spear and dies putting a single hit on the spear.
Rome is at 12 w/ 18spt. All worked tiles are developed w/ a few to spare. Time to get Antium upgraded. Heroic Epic in 5.
Army and company move towards Arnhem. I keep the Cats on hill and add the one from Antium. The Army strikes Arnhem and takes out a regular spear at the cost of 5 hits.

IBT: American spear reinforces and settler does not found.

Turn 8
Elite archer takes 3 hits and kills regular spear.
Vet legion kills American spear and enslaves settler.
Arnhem has an unfortified spear so I attack with the elite legion. Flawless kill. No leader so I raze the city. No good targets other than some Dutch on the hills so I reinforce the Army.
Cats bombard a Dutch galley and I get 2 of 3 to hit redlining the boat.

IBT: The Dutch land two archers near Veii. Elite legion by the ruins of Arnhem dies to two archers. Not moving the army over and then reinforcing was a mistake.
We get Feudalism.

Turn 9
Elite legion kills one of the Dutch archers. Veteran archer from Veii kills the other Dutch archer taking two hits.
Army is back to 13/14 so I kill a spear and redlined Dutch archer in the open and move my 2/5 archer along for cover. The spear put 4 hits on my army bringing it to 9/14.

IBT: Americans land a warrior and a spear near Veii. Popular spot.

Turn 10
Veii is building a medieval infantry. I kill the American spear with an elite legion and take a hit. I risk a 2/5 legion against the warrior and kill him but take a hit. No leaders.
I upgrade a spear in Antium to a pike but will leave the rest of the upgrades to the next player. And the American swords never did follow us to the hills. Pity for Arnhem.

Save and screenshot are at the top.

Our army is defense 3 and I am pretty sure would not have been attacked.

Still I don't blame you for retreating. It is not something you want to err in the wrong direction on. The only way I have some idea about the above is by losing armies now and then. With one army it is not time to experiment.

Getting feudalism should free up some Legions from defense.

Did we finally irrigate Antium?

Lets see:

Arizona_Steve is up
Mark1031 is on deck

Antium - Irrigating to the NE. Done in 1 and road in 2. Slaves working on roads on the SE and SW tiles.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Antium.JPG

You were right. I reloaded and played it differently. The swords bypassed the army and dashed themselves against our hills. Well, only one or two died but the others took turns getting dinged by the cats. A legion promoted to elite. The army healed and I took out a spear and the fortified. Healed again and I took out two more spears with the second battle putting me in the red. IBT the dutch ran out archers and killed the army. :cry:

Got it, although it'll have to wait until tomorrow morning. Took the Mrs out to see "Day After Tomorrow", so it's a little late for me now.

Ya, going red is not good; they explicitly target you then. One thing you can do after the roads are pillaged is attack on the first move only. Then if you get really hurt, try to retreat. It doesn't work if there are horse of course, though retreating to a hill can occasionally save ya. It works well for civs with only 1 move though. Even better is to have two armies that can protect one another if one gets a bad round.

[Edit: minor changes for clarity]

(0) 280AD
The food box in Neapolis is full and this city needs an aquaduct yesterday. I spend 176 gold to rush it. Cumae, at 12 food/turn and optimized for shields, can wait. It will get it's aquaduct in two turns anyway, and can move immediately onto a harbor. I'm happy to see the irrigation crews back at Antium. Looks like we snagged a few slaves between my turns.
I'd prefer to have our army healing on a mountain. So I move it onto a convenient Dutch gems mountain.
Switch a couple of Rome's citizens from mined non-bonus grassland to forests to bring us up to 20 shields/turn. For a size 12 city, that doesn't really seem a lot. It will still grow in five turns, so after the Heroic Epic completes I can pop out a Medieval Infantry, then a Worker.

IBT
An American stack of seven swordsmen come into view in Dutch territory.
America starts Sun Tzu's.

Veii - Medieval Infantry -> Medieval Infantry
Neapolis - Aquaduct -> Marketplace

(1) 290AD
Bombard a veteran Dutch spearman three times, scoring two hits. I want to keep my troops healthy for the incoming swordsman stack, so I'm going to let this one go.

IBT
Rome - Heroic Epic -> Medieval Infantry
Antium - Catapult -> Catapult
Cumae - Aquaduct -> Harbor

(2) 300AD
A lone archer and the Legionary army take out a Dutch spearman/archer/settler trio that was attempting to refound West of Amsterdam with no losses. That seven swordsman stack is next to our army, but with the army at 11/14 I don't think it'll get attacked.
I attack the veteran Dutch spear from last turn, and redline it with one catapult shot. It is killed by our elite archer.

IBT
The American swordsman group splits into two groups of three and four. Our army successfully takes pot-shots at two of them.
In a moment of classic AI stupidity, the Dutch move a settler next to our army, and cover it with an archer :smoke: :smoke:
Dutch start Sun Tzu's.

(3) 310AD
It goes without saying that the Dutch archer/settler pair is killed off by our army, giving us another two slaves. Now if only I can get them back to our core.

IBT
The two pot-shotted American swordsmen are left behind, and the other five regroup next to our troops on the chokepoint.
The Dutch land two archers near Veii.
The Americans land a warrior and a spearman near veii.

Rome - Medieval Infantry -> Worker

(4) 320AD
We have a number of troops scattered around Veii, so I deal with this threat first.
Elite legionary defeats regular Dutch archer.
Elite legionary defeats regular American spearman.
Veteran archer loses to a regular American warrior :mad:
Now I wake our catapults at the Southern front, and hit three of the advancing swordsman. A fourth one is taken out by a Medieval Infantry. That leaves only one full-strength regular left, and he will be attacking veteran legionaries on hills.

IBT
And then the goddamn &^%$&^ regular swordsman attacks and WINS against a fortified veteran legionary on a hill :mad: A second 2/3 swordsman then takes out the elite archer there. Damn the ##$@Q$R% RNG. Damn it to hell :mad: :mad:
The American warrior decides to ignore Veii and goes for our redlined legionary instead. Our legionary wins.
Dutch start Sun Tzu's again.

Rome - Worker -> Medieval Infantry
Veii - Medieval Infantry -> Medieval Infantry

(5) 330AD
Looks like the catapult training is working, as we score hits on four American swordsmen, redlining two.

IBT
Dutch bring out another archer/spearman/settler pair.

Cumae - Harbor -> Temple

(6) 340AD
Another spear and archer destroyed, another two slaves. Still cannot get them back to our core though.
Medieval infantry kills a 2/3 swordsman on the chokepoint hill.

IBT
We lose our Medieval Infantry on the chokepoint, but not before he takes out two more American swordsmen.
The Dutch request an audience, and are told where to go.

Antium - Catapult -> Catapult

(7) 350BC
All swordsmen within range are redlined by our catapults. One more is taken out by a medieval infantry. This time I bring troops out of Antium to cover.
Rush marketplace in Neapolis.
Rush temple in Cumae.

IBT
Now it is the turn of the Japanese to smoke some :smoke: - as they land an archer/settler pair next to our army.

Rome - Medieval Infantry -> Medieval Infantry
Cumae - Temple -> Marketplace
Neapolis - Marketplace -> Harbor

(8) 360AD
Well I'm happy to say that the American swordsmen are no more, as the last three are redlined with catapults and killed up by our troops with no losses on our side.
Our army takes out the Japanese archer and nets us another two slaves. The six Dutch slaves can finally be moved towards our core.
Kill a wandering Dutch archer on our side of the chokepoint.
Switch Antium from Catapult to Marketplace and Rush it.

IBT
Looks like the Dutch have managed to find a few troops. All spearmen and archers though.
The Dutch also start Sun Tzu's for the third time.

Veii - Medieval Infantry -> Medieval Infantry
Antium - Marketplace -> Aquaduct

(9) 370AD
Our new slave workforce has been busy building a road across the chokepoint and into Dutch territory. It is finally complete.

IBT
No attacks. In fact the Dutch turn round and flee.

(10) 380AD
We have enough troops at the chokepoint now to keep a look-out for settlers moving or landing West of Amsterdam, so I place the army on pillaging duty to strip the foreigners bare.
Kill the American swordsman next to Veii. Dutch aren't a problem right now.
Decide to play on two more turns to round out the years.

IBT
The Dutch archer moves toward Rome and threatens our worker.
You guessed it. Dutch start Sun Tzu's for the FOURTH time.

Rome - Medieval Infantry -> Medieval Infantry

(11) 390AD
I move a Legionary out of Rome to cover our threatened worker. And move a second legionary next to Rome int Rome so that it doesn't riot.
Amsterdam gets some pillagin' lovin'.
Because of the large crop of slave workers, I merge one of our workers into Antium to bring it to size 5.
Hurry marketplace at Cumae.

IBT
Cumae - Marketplace -> Medieval Infantry
Neapolis - Harbor -> Medieval Infantry

(12) 400AD
Merge a second worker into Antium to bring it to size 6.
More pillaging around Amsterdam. It has dropped from size 8 to size 7.
Kill a veteran Dutch spear that was looking for a pillage.

Summary: Things are a lot quieter at the chokepoint now. I started the army on a pillaging rampage, and this should continue into America once the Dutch are back in the Stone Age. Keep a watch on the two ruined cities to the West of Amsterdam and South of our chokepoint. The AI has been periodically sending settlers there, and I have picked up 8 slaves this turn thanks to this. There should be enough troops on the checkpoint now to take full advantage.
I took the opportunity to use the large treasury I was left with to rush infrastructure in our cities. There are marketplaces in all cities, and only Antium does not have an Aquaduct. Due to the large amount of excess food at Neapolis, I would recommend mining and roading both of the gems mountains.

Thinks look good right now. Have fun.

...And the save file - BZ8-400AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/BZ8-400AD.zip)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/BZ8-400AD.jpg

I am glad we are getting our army out and pillaging (though I agree 6 workers is worth waiting for - that will help get us up and running). It will be nice to remove swords and horsese and especially Pikes.

Do ppl want to also destroy cities (with some risk to our army) or straight pillaging?

Mark is up.

After that it is Betazed or I depending on whether he is back by then. If he is not back and I have time to play, I figure a swap would be good.

In my opinion, the job of the army is to pillage our foreign friends bare. Attacks on cities should be made using a regular stack of doom.

got it . yes i really do. 10 word min :D

I remember reading a thread where someone was discussing sending .sav rather than zipping it. IIRC someone said it is important to zip as if it is corrupted at all it says so, otherwise an error can take a while to manifest itself and be unfixable.

Good luck with the game.

Preturn: mm Rome to 20 spt. Start Neopolis on galley to scout for other civs.

410: 2 Jap horses land at Antium. They are dispatched by 4 MI as they both redline and retreat. Pillage with Army.

420: Kill American pike/settler pair. Collect troops at the choke for advance on Amsterdam. Pillage with Army

430: Kill American spear settler pair at choke. What a joke. Where do they get the idea they can just plop down weakly defended settlers right next to our armies? Like I won’t notice. They send no troops really, just settlers.

440: Bunch of Dutch troops show up @ the choke. I get impatient and decide to attack Amsterdam with the pillaging Army. It’s only defended by spears. First attack flawless. Second attack loses a couple HPs. At the choke kill about 4 archers and a spear, lose 1 legion.

450: Continue attack on Amsterdam. Take out 2 spears and army is now in the yellow. Send out galley on suicide run.

460: More battling for position on the mountains and hills with Dutch spear/archer groups. We are finally getting the upper hand. Decide to go one more time with the Army. Kill spear to reveal the single remaining archer but am now in the red. I charge anyway and win. Amsterdam is burned to the ground through the heroic work of our army. Galley survives and we safely reach empty land.

470: Out of nowhere off a road appears a vet Jap horse which proceeds to attack our 3HP army. We go to 1 HP immediately but win the remaining 4 heats to survive. That was close. I almost lost the army. The new lands are not empty, we meet the Mongols. They are up engineering and chilvary. Don’t have Lit or $$. No trades we declare against these scum.

480: American’s land a MI/settler pair which is dispatched by an elite MI and… we get Hadrian. Move him back toward Rome for Col build so we can go to 0 Lux. Move troops into position for attack on Gronin.

490: Siege of Gronin: bombard with 5 pults, 2 hits reveal only 2 spears in the city. MI takes 2HP spear (after an archer shot misses). Legion takes spear #2 final Legion takes the Archer and we burn the city down. We meet Spain who are also up chiv and Eng. And down Lit. No trades and we declare. We get Mono, engineering, chilvary and invention from the GL. nice

500: Army is healed and we take out a spear settler pair moving into the open space. Hadrian builds Cathedral. Elite MI takes out archer and we get another leader. Leader heads back to the core.

Summary: We made good progress against the Dutch but it feels like a slow slog with no horses. I almost lost the army, which you could argue would have been a bad mistake but I sort of changed my view on armies this turn. I basically attacked because I was bored pillaging and waiting to get regular troops in place. But the attacking army is very powerful and took out a big city single handed. And it healed completely in 3 turns. I generally agree that they are best used in this type of game for pillage because they don’t get attacked. However, we are a militaristic civ with the heroic epic and we can only have 1 army at a time. I got 2 leaders this turn. If we lose an army another one shouldn’t take too long to get. Also, if we don’t use the army to attack we don’t take advantage of it’s ability to heal in enemy territory. Anyway, next leader can lower lux to 0 because Rome will complete Cathedral. There is a leader headed back to town for something, I don’t know what. We cleared a lot of space so the settlers will start streaming in soon. My goal would be to get to Jap horses ASAP so we can get some knights, we have chiv.

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031
betazed ----> UP
Greebley -----> On Deck.
Gengis Khan
jb1964

This is my got it. I am also playing AG7 now which I have to finish first. So I may not be able to get to this today but will definitely post by tomorrow.

Nice turns Mark. The GL is working some nice mojo.

Question: Why only one army at a time? I guess it's a C3C thing.

With Heroic Epic we should add another legion or MI to our army.

Its always been 1 army per 4 cities. Since we are a 5CC we can have 1.

If we capture 3 cities on the same turn we can build a second army (we can keep captured cities until the end of the turn but they must be abandoned before the turn ends - we cannot build them)

One thing I discovered in Meli's game:

Capturing and abandoning cities transfers all the bad moral from drafting and rushing into your five core cities

We should always raze unless we have a strong reason not to. This is especially true after nationalism.

Final note: Heroic Epic increases your chance of getting a leader. The small wonder that allows an extra unit is Pentagon. We are unlikely to get Pentagon as that requires 3 armies (or 12 cities = 5 + 7 captures in a single turn).

Capturing 7 cities at once is very difficult.

Doh! OK, I never read the fine print and I had forgotten it was the Pentagon that added the forth unit to an army.

Thanks for the clarification/education.

Higlights of my turn.


Rushed cathedral in our gem city using the leader. This allowed us to bring lux tax to zero. that increased gpt from 48 to 62.
Made libraries in all cities. We will need them as soon as Education comes in.
Made courthouses in all cities except the capital. One courthouse should finish next turn.
Joined all native workers to cities. These workers cost maintenance. Also some of our cities were not growing at all but could sustain extra citizens. These cities acccepted the new workers. Our treasury went up from 68 to 78 gpt because of this.
Lost just one MDI in the last ten turns. Decimated numerous American MDI and pikes and no less than 6 settlers.
All workers are slaves now. Some of them are finishing the fortress on the choke point.
We have learned Theology in the last ten turns from the TGL.
Army is just pillaging. Next turn should disconnect Japan's capital.


Now with 5 productive cities we are looking good. My only concern is no horse resource to be seen anywhere. IMHO, next player should make a colony on the saltpeter we control and start making musket and LB combination. No more MDIs.

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031
betazed ----> Just Played
Greebley -----> Up
Gengis Khan -----> On Deck
jb1964

Ok I got it. Hope to play at some or all tonight.

Early:
Upgrade a few units, especially cats.
Build Trebuchets for bombarding boats and units.
Skim a worker off Rome for another city.
Japans capitol is disconnected. Attack Kyoto
Several Elite victories but no leader.

Mid:
Raze Kyoto
GLib gets us Education. I start research on banking (19 turns).

Late:
Mongol build Sun Tzu
Get a Leader that I use to rush a university in Rome

Notes:
Rome is building a worker. Its purpose is to boost the population of Cumae or Antium.

Japan has only 4 cities. Right now they have spears guarding them. They have saltpeter but not the tech. If we attack their spear guarded cities (only if the army has 11+ hp, otherwise heal), we may be able to destroy them and have one less opponent.

Here is the save file

Good turns Greebley. Yes we should try to take out Jap cities one by one carefully with the leader.

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031
betazed
Greebley ----> Just Played
Gengis Khan -----> Up
jb1964 -----> On Deck

Gengis, you are up. Have you solved your installation problems or do you need another skip?

It also occurred to me that one advantage of a 5CC is that we can run some risk with the army since we will get it back with our next leader.

If we ever get a second army then that will change.

Tried 2 more times, but failed miserably both times(yes, I am that bad with computers).

Sorry guys, I'll have to bow out of this one. Really wanted to play too, this is a great variant & some great players to match, but it just wasn't ment to be. I'll catch you guys on the next one, and Betazed don't go back to spamland without starting Bz9 so I can get in.:D

I'll still be lurking of course, and I apologize again for the inconvienence.

No problemo GK. Hopefully your troubles will be sorted out by the time we start Bz9. :)

So the roster now is

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031
betazed
Greebley ----> Just Played
jb1964 -----> On Deck

Got it. Will

Got it. Will read previous posts and do battle tomorrow night.

FYI, heading out on vacation on the 12th and wont be back until the 19th. No computers. Just a beach towl and a fishing rod or two.

700 AD, Pre-Flight – Everything looks great to me. I’m not sure why everyone else is pissed at us but I’ll go with the flow.

<Return>

Mongols are building Copernicus
American, Dutch and Jap forces move in our general direction.
Neapolis treb -> treb
Rome worker -> MI

Turn 1, 710AD
Moving trebs to our choke and then probably into the field.
Army attacks Edo. After losing only 1hp to the defending spear we take another run at the size 4 city, kill the next spear and raze the city. Army beat down to 8/14.
Bomb American galley to 1hp
Kill off 4 archers yielding a GL.
Move GL to Antium to rush university after harbor in 2

Jap horse dies attacking MI
The Dutch seem intent on offering us their settlers as a sacrifice by within our field of view.
Veii pike -> MI
Our people bless us w/ two builds on the old palace.

Turn 2, 720AD
Fortify army 8/14 to heal up. Our elite (4/5) MI kills a spear wandering the countryside.
Trebs take three American pikes down to 1, 1, and 2 hp. Elite legion dies in first attack but second legion avenges the loss leaving the two single hp pike wallowing in a marsh. Using two more MI I kill off these pigs and enslave their settler. I immediately put my new slave to work building a road.
Roman worker joins Antium.
Banking in 11 turns at 60% research. Lux slider still at 0.
No enemy units are within striking distance.

Antium harbor -> university. Use GL, Claudius, to rush.
Neapolis treb -> treb

Turn 3, 730AD
Bombard and kill off a Dutch spear. Moving trebs and forces towards Roterdam.
Shuffle forces. American galley looks like they’re going to land a few troops.

Antium univ. -> MI
Rome MI -> MI in 2
Four American MI’s move in to get a kill. I think I’ll drag them near a trebuchet or 6.

Turn 4, 740AD
Army healed. Moving on Japanese capitol, Osaka, pop 5 and protected by a spear.

American MI come in from a different route and take out four units covering slaves building road to Roterdam.

Turn 5, 750AD
Kill off a Dutch archer and get another GL, Anthony, and two more slaves. He heads to Veii to build a university.
Pike pillages improvements N of Utrecht.
MI kills off Dutch archer near Utrecht but redlines.
I redline the American MI in the marsh but do not attack. If I do there are three more sitting on a roaded mountain waiting to swoop down on whatever forces I move in there.

Americans land 2 MI.
American MI attacks MI scouting around Rotterdam and dies. A second MI comes in and finishes our guy off.
Rome MI -> MI in 3

Turn 6, 760AD
Trebs beat up American Mi and a longbowman and an MI kill them.
Army kills off two spears in Osaka and winds up 11/14.

Antium MI -> MI
Neapolis treb -> MI

Turn 7, 770AD
Moving units and workers towards Rotterdam.
Army kills off two more spears on Osaka but goes to 9/14. We’ll heal next turn.

Mongols land a warrior near Veii.

Turn 8, 780AD
Killed warrior w/ vet MI. MI takes a hit and does not promote.

Turn 9, 790AD
Road built up to Rotterdam. Trebs bomb them and find that they have 3 spears.
Anthony rushes the university in Veii.

Antium MI -> MI
Veii MI -> Pike
Neapolis MI -> MI

Turn 10, 800AD
Our Army destroys Osaka and the Great Lighthouse. We liberate zero gold.


Redline the spears in Rotterdam and find they have an archer. Not enough forces to take the city and I’m across a river. I was hoping to bring their population below 6 w/ the bombardment but that didn’t happen.

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bz8_800_AD.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/shot11.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/shot2.jpg

Good turns. Just One thing. Why are we still building pikes when we can simply build a colony on the saltpeter?

Also, do we see a horse resource yet?

Arizona_Steve ----> Up
Mark1031 -----> On Deck
betazed
Greebley
jb1964 -----> Just Played

Good point. Not paying attention.

I moved out many of the slaves to road for our forces but another use for them could be to prevent landings around our territory. Ugh, human shields. Not a pleasant thought but a real one in the case of a game.

To get 20shp out of Rome I claimed a forest from Veii. But to do this you're in the red in Rome. If we chop the forrest maybe we'll get a bonus grass that can yeild the same benefits.

Autoskip me between the 12th and 19th.

I have the game and will play tonight (damn 10 character minimum message limit).

(0) 800AD
I start by switching Neapolis to maximum growth and changing it's Medieval Infantry to a worker. We need a maximum of five workers to bring all cities to size 12. I also go ahead and push growth in Antium. It will need a cathedral at some point though.
Science can be dropped to 40% for this turn to gain us 5 gold, while still bringing in banking this turn.
There's a bunch of units fortified by Rotterdam, and an elite Medieval Infantry should be a good match for a regular archer in a city across a river, so I take the plunge. We win against that archer and two more redlined spears in the city, and we get a second elite Medieval Infantry.
I'd like to nail that American pikeman/settler pair on the hill, but there are no units within range.

IBT
America founds Houston on a hill. Might be tough dislodging that one.
Two other settler pairs are in view.
Banking comes in. Astronomy selected.
Spain completes the Sistine Chapel at Logrono.

Neapolis - Worker -> Worker

(1) 810AD
Two trebuchets take two hitpoints off the last remaining regular spear in Rotterdam, and an elite Medieval Infantry razes the city.
I note that there's a source of horses next to the army.
Kill a japanese spear/settler pair, but lose a Medieval Infantry in the process.
Take one of our slaves and build a colony on the Saltpeter. Only then do I see there's an American Pikeman/Settler pair right next to it.
Use our excess cash to rush stuff in our cities.

IBT
Mongolia requests an audience. They are rebuffed.
Spain completes Leonardo's in Barcelona.

Rome - Medieval Infantry -> Longbow
Veii - Musketman -> Musketman
Antium - Musketman -> Cathedral
Cumae - University -> Cathedral
Neapolis - Worker -> Musketman

(2) 820AD
Take out an American settler/pikeman pair.
The bombardment of Houston is notably unsuccessful, as all trebuchets miss. I bring another couple of trebuchets in to try again. Looks like walls were rushed there last turn.

IBT
One attack on a yellowlined Medieval Infantry, which we win.

(3) 830AD
Forget about Houston for now, that's going to be a tough nut to crack. I send the troops there towards the last Dutch city.
Science to 10% to stop Veii from rioting. Change it's build to a Cathedral.

IBT
Yawn.

(4) 840AD
Troop repositioning.

(5) 850AD
Repel a mongol landing of one veteran Medieval Infantry, one regular longbow and a conscript Medieval Infantry. Hire entertainer in Veii and move luxuries to zero.

IBT
Mongols land a longbow next to Cumae.
Hurry Cathedral in Veii.

Veii - Cathedral -> Musketman
Neapolis - Musketman -> Longbow

(6) 860AD
More troop repositioning.

IBT
Our Mongol friends land three Keshiks next to Cumae.

(7) 870AD
The keshiks are killed off with no losses on our side.

IBT
A mongol settler pair that I missed settles near Antium. We have a Medieval Infantry next to it though.
Spain lands a knight and an ancient cavalry next to Veii.

Rome - Longbow -> Longbow

(8) 880AD
Kill one spearman in the new Mongol city, and there's another one underneath.
Utrect is finally razed and the Dutch are removed from the game.
Our troops cannot reach the Spanish Knight and Ancient Cavalry, but I am able to reinforce Veii.

IBT
The Mongols build Copernicus in Tabriz.
We get a palace expansion.
The spanish attack Veii, but our Musket there causes both units to retreat. The Spanish also land four units next to Rome.

Neapolis - Longbow -> Longbow.

(9) 890AD
Rome is in some trouble, as there are only troops available to kill off the Ancient Cavalry. There's still a MDI, longbow and pike there.
Damn Mongols are rushing spearmen in Tsontsengel as fast as I can kill the buggers.

IBT
Rome is in some deep do-do, as the Mongols add three longbows and a MDI to the troops there.

(10) 900AD
There is little I can do with Rome, except to pull the two muskets from Veii.
I get a leader attacking a redlined American MDI. Octavian runs back towards our cities. I recommend rushing the cathedral in Antium.

And the Save File - 900AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/BZ8_900AD.zip)

I think Rome will survive is we get units from other cities. Move 2 defenders in Antium toward rome so they can get there in one turn, and move in one or more units from Veii.

We have a lreader. I would NOT use it up right away. Lets go for killing 3 cities in one round. Tosontengel, and the two japanese ones perhaps? A second army would be a huge boost for us, it is worth the time and effort (and also fun to try to set up).

Also remember that armies pillage cost no movement. You should pillage as you go across american lands.

Arizona_Steve -----> Just Played
Mark1031 ----> Up
betazed -----> On Deck
Greebley
jb1964

I am hoping Rome will survive otherwise we will suffer a huge setback.

I think it will survive if we move the units into it. If we move all the units out of Veii, then they may switch to go after that town giving us longer to attack it.

I Would kill the ancient cav with the MDI which I don't think has moved yet.

got it. played 5 turns. Rome survives easily but it is getting more difficult. Starting to get Knights and crusaders landings.

Do we have enough slaves and units to occupy all of our coastal boarder squares?

Do we have enough slaves and units to occupy all of our coastal boarder squares?

even if we do I would not like to use that strategy. It looks cheap and not honorable.

Back out and evade a fight. A Sith would never do so! ;)

I am cheap and dishonorable. :eek: :)

However, I agree it would be bad form. :dubious:

A group of us tried that in one game, but it meant we died from 1000 cuts rather than a clean kill.

Here is a link to the post where we try that strategy (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=1632803&postcount=170)

[Edit: Here is the full game:
HAndy01 - AWE with Babylon (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=78712)

The problem is the maintanance for all the units on the shore slows research. I think one is better off with building catapults, until the units get extreme.

Using forgein workers might possibly work but using workers to block the coast is considered an exploit by many because the AI isn't smart enough to know it can land anyway.

Preturn: Move 2 Veii Pikes into Rome. Move MI from Antium. Switch Cathedrals to Banks.

910: We survive attack on Rome loose 1 musket/1Pike. They loose 2 LB and an AC. Kill off the remaining troops. Destroy Mongol city on our territory (forgot the name). Take Tokyo no losses. Take Kagoshima lose 1 MI. Japan still alive with 1 city on an Island somewhere.

IBT lose MI and LB in the open. Damn

920: Just Pillaging in America. Resting troops

IBT lose stack of workers. Damn, got to get better cover out in the open areas with the roads I can’t see things coming.

930: OK, we don’t have enough troops to continue advancing and we have to shore up defenses at home. So go to purely defensive action. Plan: Accumulate troops, get road to Buffalo take Buffalo and set up horse colony.

940: MI takes LB and we get a leader who single handedly builds Bank in Veii.

950: Knight and Crusader land near Cumae. Bombard and take out with no losses.

960: Kill some American LBs and settler MI pair. Do some roading. Astronomy comes in and start Chem.

970-1000: Kill troops, Banks come in Antium and Cumae. Move forces toward Buffalo. Fight off a few landings. Not much.

Summary: We have troops and workers near Buffalo ready to complete road through forest. We can then take Buffalo and set up a horse colony in the next couple of turns.

screen shot attached

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031 -----> Just Played
betazed ----> Up
Greebley -----> On Deck
jb1964

I will try and set up the horse colony. Will play tonight.

Nice set. By my turn I can grab the wine. I'm thirsty.

So the Dutch are dead. The Japanese are on island life-support. The Americans are being eaten from the inside out. Then we have the Mongols and ??.

I guess while the Americans are being worked over we should start thinking about the when, what and where of landng troops on Mongol soil.

If we continue to go toward Mil Trad, we may have cavalry about the same time as we are ready for the mongols. It would be nice to get an army over to the Mongol isle, but would have to disband our current one or get to Galleons. I am inclined to go for the Cav army as soon as we get cav.

This all assumes we can successfully fight the Americans first, which seems doable.

[Edit: I would spare a pike/musket to cover the larger worker stacks to avoid random losses if you can. Just dedicate a unit to just that. The current worker stack in the pic and your previous mention, it sounds like this would be worthwhile. ]

IBT: LB attacks pike fortified on mountain and kills it. This is the beginning of the worst RNG luck that I have had for some time. In these 10 turns the AI won every fight it initiated no matter what the odds. :(

A knight, an ancient cav and a keshik lands nears Rome. Forces move towards American city to secure horse.

Turn 1 : All trebuchets miss. :( 2 on the knight and 6 on the american city. Need 6 uuits to take out the 3 that landed near Rome because all of them retreat on being red lined and has to be chased down. Get a leader though. Rush Uni is the last city that did not have Uni.

Turn 2: Troops heal.

Turn 3: Destroy American horse city. One regular pike takes down a LB and a MDI. Third MDI takes down the pike. and this after all trebuchets miss. Now the problem is I have only two MDI and some trebuchets left to hold on to the colony. :(

Turn 4: Establish colony. start on knights

Turn 5: Spain lands 5 knights and 1 ancient cav near Veii. :eek: Two keshiks land near Antium. This is disaster. We have only 2 MDI and one pike in Veii. I upgrade the pike to musket in both Veii and Antium. Attack each of the units with whatever I got. which is not much. Then offer worker baits for the knights. press spacebar and pray.

IBT: Sure enough, three knights go for workers. One knight attacks a LB reaching towards Veii and the other two take down two units in Veii. Once again 100% victory for the AI. But we manage to hang on by the skin of our teeth.

Turn 6: America builds a city near our colony and we loose our horse again. :( And I do not have troops to take down the city. I have to attack to pikes and muskets to take down the spanish tropps. barely manage it. If spain lands similar amount of troops next turn we are goner since we have nothing to protect our cities.

Turn 7: Chemistry comes in. We start mettalurgy going to MT. We have one turn as a breather.

Turn 8: army heads back towards horse colony. imho, we should stop pillaging america and secure the horse with the army. without knights we will, not may, but will lose our core cities sooner rather than later. So army secures horse and we hang on till MT with knights and when MT comes in we get cavs army can start pillaging again.

Turn 9: I generate another leader. He is fortified. in Rome now. do not know what to do with him. Spain lands crusaded and musket combo on a mountain neir veii.

IBT: Crusader attacks MDI and win of course without losing a hp.

Turn 10: Kill off crusader losing a LB in the process.


I leave the next player in a somewhat precarious position. Sorry about that. I did the best I could do. You should have two knights the next turn. Secure the horse with the army and just try to hang on. Maybe you will have better luck than me.

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031
betazed -----> Just played and almost had a heart attack
Greebley ----> Up
jb1964 -----> On Deck (may have to be skipped since he will be out)

Greebley, post by midnight EST and I'll probably be able to play my turns out. I'll be able to lurk now and agian while on the road but I wont be able to play until the 19th.

Ok, I may be able to do that. Will try at least. I got it.

Betazed, I don't seem to be able to download the save. It keeps ending up as 1 kb despite the claim that it is 154 kb as an attachment.

Can you either try reattaching or using the uploads for it?

JB, are you able to get the save to work?

[Edit: It seems something is up with downloads in general.
I managed to grab it successfully. Either the problem was fixed or it is an erratic problem.

I will start playing Now.

Preturn: Things look momentarily ok other than the lack of horses. I think I will use the leader for a knight or Cav army once we get our horses back

IBT: The one Keshik on the island moves up. No landings

1110 AD: Thing are momentarily quiet. I try to destroy the horse town but we only knock 1 hp off the pike( 2 left). I attack with one of the MDI, but lose. Army moves as suggested by Betazed.

I think it might be worth trying for the American city with the Great Wall if we can to remove those pesky walls. Something to think about in the future.

Hmm... If I build a 2 unit knight army now, I can get to the horse town 4 turns faster than our current one. I think we want to build knights so I am going to do it. Err... except I moved the army.... next turn I will - in the mean time the horses move up.

IBT: A single MDI is dropped off.

1120 AD: Ok we now have an 8 hp knight army which moves out
MDI vs MDI after the Trebuchets miss is killed and the American MDI promotes(2hp). Longbow kills the MDI

IBT: Our MDI guarding the stack of cats and workers fortunately survives a longbow attack.
Rome built a worker for non-growing cities at size 11 and will go back to size 12 next turn.

1130 AD: No landings

IBT:
Longbow lands near Cumae

1140 AD:
Also a stack of 4 ancient Cav are dropped off. I kill off 1 with an MDI. The town is safe with 1 more unit than ACavs.

Build on the Horses. All towns switch over to knights. Their higher speed will make defense of the core easier.

IBT: Two Acav attack promoting our Two Muskets to Elite. Last ACav moved.

1150 AD: Kill the last ACav (It retreats so it takes 2 units). Kill a pike and Musket that were coming over to defend the horse town that we Razed (bombard first).

IBT: Settler lands next to our colony (horses and saltpeter, no wonder it is popular).

1160 AD: Add two more workers to the slush pile by killing the spear guarding the setter.

IBT: 3 Civs land units near Veii, Am LB, 2 Sp Acav, Mng MDI and Keshik

1170 AD: Our knight dies to an ACav. Can't say our combat luck has improved by much Knight vs keshik, the knight loses the first three hp but pulls off a win by taking the next 4. Our knight army picks up another knight (13 hp as one became elite). The two ACav are killed without loss bringing our luck for the round to be more average.

I hope to be able to clear out the non-american part of the island on my turns and then start moving on for the next player(2) to clear the rest. I am increasing visiblilty so we can see when the enemy is coming to help hand incursions.

IBT: A knight and Conquistador land Remember that Conquistadors have a range of 6! . They can easily pick off worker stacks.

1180 AD: Houston that has been a thorn in our side is destroyed :hammer: using our army and a MDI.
An elite legion kills the knight and a MDI kills the Conquistador and his growly-dog.

IBT: Another knight Conquistador pair land. This is taxing our resources as our units need healing...


1190 AD: An MDI kills the knight. We have a welome new knight who kills both the Conquistador and his growly-dog in one mighty swing which promotes thim to elite.

Well the one or more AI must have just gotten Metallurgy as it drops to 1 turn with a single scientist

IBT: The americans get our horses again :(. They are in a spot they can attack us but we have a hard time striking back.
2 ACav and a MDI, Longbow Pair are dropped off.

1200 AD: I don't much like the state I am leaving the game in. Our horse colony is gone and our workers all fled. The army is coming up to help out. I think everything is pretty much under control however. We will be ready for an assault on America soon. We may want to go for the Great wall city first.

Sorry, JB the forum problem meant I couldn't get this to you by Midnight. Grab it if you so desire; otherwise have a good trip. My advise is to not pet the porcupines if you see one by the side of the road.

Advise for the next player: You will find various workers on mountains and hills - One reason for this is to build outposts. The 3 radius for mountains is especially nice; you can sometimes see boats before they land ect. I like to have every square visible in some form or other. We got plenty of workers for this.

Here is a map of our world. We are making progress. It should be even better when we get Cav.

We should also upgrade our Trebuchets if we can.

Nice set. Skip me for now.

Good turns Greebley.

Arizona_Steve -----> Up
Mark1031 -----> On Deck
betazed Greebley ----> Just Played
jb1964 -----> Skipped

(0) 1200AD
Looks like we need to get the horsie colony up and running again, and to set up some defence so that the damn Americans cannot found a new city nearby. F7 tells me that the Americans also have the Great Wall in New York, and looking at the map, it looks like it's well behind Washington.
Is it me or are those outposts phallic symbols?
I wake up a Dutch worker and move him into Cumae, to bring it up to size 12.
We have a little gold available, so I take the opportunity to upgrade four trebuchets to cannon.

IBT
Spain lands a Conquistador, Knight and Ancient Cavalry next to Veii. The Mongols land a single Medieval Infantry next to the Spanish stack.
We lose a Medieval Infantry to an American longbow that I didn't see.
Rome - Knight -> Cannon
Veii - Knight -> Musketman

(1) 1210AD
I notice that Rome is making 19 shields per turn, and needs a forest. There's a perfect spot for one, so I send the workers in that direction.
Three trebuchets get three hits on the Spanish invaders.
Our new knight in Veii takes out the Ancient Cavalry. An elite Medieval Infantry retreats the Conquistador, then a 3/4 knight loses against the spanish 2/4 knight. A legionary comes out and beats up the Spanish knight and the conquistador is destroyed by a veteran Medieval Infantry from Veii.
This leaves the Mongol Medieval Infantry. He redlines our last remaining knight in the area, but we win, and our lands are once again foreigner free.
Add the Dutch worker to Cumae to bring it to size 12.
Our workers place another phallus on a mountain.
Move workers into position to plant forests around Rome to maximize shields.

IBT
The Mongols request an audience and are told to shove it. They also start Newton's University.
No landings this turn.
We lose two workers, but there was very little I could do about it.

(2) 1220AD
Two more trebuchets are upgraded.
I begin moving units next to the horses in preparation for the forming of a colony there.

IBT
The Spanish land a crusader and an Ancient Cavalry next to Veii.
That annoying mongol longbow attacks and defeats our pikeman on a hill without losing a single hitpoint :mad:

(3) 1230AD
Two cannon and a trebuchet score hits on the Spanish Crusader/Ancient Cavalry pair. An elite Knight takes out the Ancient Cavalry, and an elite Medieval Infantry finishes off the Crusader.
It's time to take a swipe at the Americans. Nine trebuchets bombard a Longbow/Medieval Infantry pair, and an elite legionary and our knight army take them out. Another attack by the knight army takes out a single regular longbow. Then I discover that the capture of a worker does not count as an attack, and I'm able to go on and attack the longbow next to it with the same Knight and win. And so the way is cleared for a horse colony next turn.
The annoying Mongol longbow will capture a worker during the interturn, but it will be killed next turn.

IBT
Surprisingly, the Mongol longbow goes for our knight instead of the worker. Our knight retreats.
No-one lands on our shores.

Rome - Cannon -> Cannon
Neapolis - Granary (Had I noticed this earlier it would've been changed) -> Musketman

(4) 1240AD
I kill an American Musket/Settler pair that was heading North of Atlanta. The Romans get colonies established on both the horses and the wines. Then realize that we're already getting wines. Oops.
The annoying Mongol longbow is killed by a Medieval Infantry underneath the retreated Knight.
All military builds are switched back to Knights.
I decide that Atlanta should be our next target. It's culture is perilously close to our horse colony.

IBT
A stack of three Mongol ships appear, but all they can land is one cavalry.

Cumae - Knight -> Knight

(5) 1250AD
I get three hits on the cavalry with our cannon in Veii, but a full health veteran legionary is unable to finish it off. An elite knight does the trick though.
The Roman forests have completed and Rome is back to 20 shields/turn.
I move the trebuchet stack and our knight army to ambush a bunch of American troops that are heading towards the horse colony.

IBT
It seems the Mongols have a lot of ships floating around, but no units to put on them.
American troops move into position to be killed. How nice of them.

Veii - Knight -> Knight.

(6) 1255AD
I bombard the four American troops, and redline all except for two Medieval Infantries. Our army gets a bit unlucky and is brought down to five hitpoints attacking a redlined pikeman on a hill. The two American Medieval Infantries are taken out by other troops leaving a single redlined pikeman who will probably escape.

IBT
The Mongols complete JS Bach's in Karakorum.
Spain starts Magellan's and completes it in Santiago on the same turn.
And the stupid redlined American pikeman is so determined to get to our horse colony that he stands right next to a full strength elite Legionary.

(7) 1260AD
Goodbye American pikeman. Killing him reveals a Settler/Musket pair trying to get to our horse colony. They won't make it though.

IBT
The American Settler pair wanders into range of our trebuchets.
Spain lands a Settler/Spearman pair right next to two of our knights.

Rome - Knight -> Knight
Neapolis - Knight -> Knight

(8) 1265AD
We get ourselves two Spanish workers and two American workers, more than replacing the ones I lost. I take out the (redlined with trebuchets) American Musketman with the army, as there are two longbows right behind, and I don't want to leave units exposed.
Take pot-shots at Mongol shipping where possible.

IBT
Antium - Cathedral -> Knight

(9) 1270AD
I was hoping that Antium's Cathedral would allow me to take luxuries to zero, but I see that Cumae doesn't have a Cathedral. I swap it's Knight build to one.
Two American longbows are bombarded and killed.

IBT
Oh crap. Here come the landings. Spain lands an Ancient Cavalry and a Knight next to Rome. Mongoloa lands three Keshiks, also next to Rome.
Japan requests an Audience. Naturally, I decline.

(10) 1275AD
I take out two of the Keshiks with knights, but don't have any more troops in range. We will lose a cannon and a trebuchet during the interturn, but these should be easily recaptured. Rome has four units in it, so is safe from capture.
Rome is starving at the moment. Make sure that it is reoptimized once the foreigners are dead.

Steve, how many turns to cavalry?

Arizona_Steve -----> Just Played
Mark1031 -----> Up
betazed -----> On Deck
Greebley
jb1964 -----> Skipped till 19th.

I think it was about 7 or 8 turns. It will certainly come in on the next player's turn.

Preturn: Reposition a few troops hit enter.

IBT: They waste 2 moves taking our artillery and attack Rome with one Knight and Musket defends perfectly and promotes.

1280: Take back arty and clear out all foreign troops with no losses. Move troops toward America. Leave Knight MI and Legion to defend horses.

1285: America lands 1 MI at Veii which is dispatched.

1290: IBT Spain lands 2 AC, 1LB, 1Con near Veii. Dispatched with no losses after perfect 4/4 arty bombardment. Continue toward Atlanta

1295: Landings: Spain 2Knights,2AC at Veii Mongols 2 Keshik @ Rome. Kill all but loose 2 Knights.

1300: Spain lands musket and MI. bombard musket to 1 HP then loose 2 knights to the MI. finally take out both.

1305: No landings. Bombard Atlanta

1310: Keshik and Cav land near Washington. Loose LB, knight, and legion but they are removed. Bombard Atlanta lots of misses. Military Tradition comes in. Physics in 12 @ -6gpt

1315: Take Atlanta no losses vs 2 muskets. Upgrade some vet knights.

1320: Advance on Boston. Spain musket and warrior near Veii :lol: . No problemo.

1325: Move to the Boston gates. Take out AC and musket @ Veii.


Should Mention Spain and Mongols are now in the IA. We need to get an Army over to Spain/Mongol territory soon before they get too far ahead in tech. When we get the next leader I'd burn the knight army and get a cav army over. It's just a matter of time for America.

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031 -----> Just Played
betazed -----> Up
Greebley -----> On Deck
jb1964 -----> Skipped till 19th.

This is my got it. I will see if I can ship an army over to spanish lands.

Sorry guys. Could not play during the weekend. Had other important :rolleyes: stuff to do. Will play tonight definitely.

Turn 1 : 4 cavs. One LB 2 MDI and a knight lands. Raze American city. Get a leader. All units dispatched.

Turn 2: nothing. Army heals.

Turn 3: nothing.

IBT: Mongols finish Newtons.

Turn 4:

Turn 5:

IBT: Spain lands 4 muskets, two knights, 1 MDI and 4 Consquitadors.


Turn 6: I dispatch all except a i hp conquistador and the MDI.

IBT: MDI suicides against musket. Conquisatador moves towards worker bait. Reduce science to get physics in same number of turns and still make +28 gpt.


Turn 7: Nothing much,

Turn 8: Nothing much. Three Zulu cavs land and are dispatched.

Turn 9: We learn Physics and start on Magnetism. Due in 13 at no loss.


Turn 10: We destroy Washington Which had the temple of Artemis. We destroy Detroit.

The leader is fortified in Rome. We should build a cav army out of him and ship him to spanish lands. Unfortunately we cannot do that till we have magnetism which is still 13 turns away. In the meantime the knight army is doing damage to Americans. Using that I destroyed three cities of America including their capital.

So I am in two minds whether to abandon the knight army or not. It would be nice to capture three cities at the same time and make another army. Can anyone pull it off?

Arizona_Steve -----> On Deck
Mark1031
betazed -----> Just Played
Greebley -----> Up
jb1964 -----> Skipped till 19th.

Ok, I got it. I am up in more than one game so this may be for tomorrow.

Preturn: I am going to go for removing America. I send a few Cav that way, but keep most back until I see what kind of landings we are getting. We have a lot of Cav on defense right now.

IBT: A knight appears threatening our 1 hp knight.

I send our one fairly healthy knight after it but lose. I don't think the 1 hp dude can escape (my only hope is that his knight heals)

1375 AD: Tempting. The leader can rush the Mil Acad which strengthens our armies. Or cav army? Like Betazed I am torn. We have several elites so I think I will rush the Acad.

I broke the nice wall the last player left me. It is a good strategy, but using foreigners feels too much like I am taking advantage of the AI. Besides if they improve the AI and allow enemy troops to land directly on workers it won't work anyway. This is purely a personal preference. Feel free to reconstruct it.

IBT: Our 1 hp knight fled to a mountain. It fends off the 3 hp attacking knight.
2 Mongol Cav and an assortment of 4 Spanish troops land

1380 AD: We kill the invaders, but lose an E Cav vs a V Cav. We get one promotion to Elite so our "elite count" remains the same. Bombard San Fran and attack with a knight, but it doesn't go well (retreat). I decide the army needs more healing and to wait for the Cav.

IBT: Antium reaches 1000 culture and expands to claim the whole Peninsula excepting only a single square near Neapolis, Veii which won't be claimed unless our culture in one of those cities reaches 10,000.

1385 AD: Trebuchets do terribly. I will attack next turn when I have cav as well. The cav joins the army.

IBT: Quiet

1390 AD: Army need healing. I will wait to continue the assault.

IBT: Quiet.

1395 AD: Some Cav arrive at the front.

IBT: Spain drops off a decent size stack including 2 knights, a musket, and a Crusader.

1400 AD: RNG is pretty bad this turn. Our strength 6 units are badly damaged in every attack vs strength 3 including the loss of the Elite* Cav and a Vet Cav. More artillery is probably what I need. They keep landing where the artillery is not.
The bad new continues... An Elite MDI loses vs a spear.

IBT: A cav and longbow are dropped off.

1405 AD: This is getting ridiculous, our Vet Cav dies to an injured Cav. All these battles are on the flat and I am not attacking with injured units.

America has 3 cities left and no great wall. Can we kill them all on one turn?

IBT: Mongols Start Universal Sufferage.

1410 AD: This is getting more and more annoying. Four cannon vs a musket get one hit. Two Vet cavs attack it, fortunately both retreat, but only do 1 hp. Again on flat. There is a good chance the musket will kill the 1 hp Cav and destroy the 4 cannon.

IBT: Big landing party.

1415 AD: Lose a knight attacking a red-lined Musket which promotes. I am sending units over to try the 3 city trick. It may mean we have to defend at times. I am also upgrading knights though.

IBT: The rest of the party attacks and dies excepting the Musket that flees.

1420 AD: More troop movement.

IBT: A longbow lands

1425 AD: Longbow is killed.

Notes:
Well I am not sure I played this round right, but we have a chance for the 3 cities in one turn. I am uncertain if we have enough units. Cav should be place the army is now - they can choose between attacking Chicago or Philadelphia as needed. The army should be next to Chicago as there is no artillery for that. It might be best to "trim" towns of units first... Attack each town until it loses 1 defender and stop when units left is low. I am hoping it is worth the try. In any case, it is an interesting puzzle on how best to do it.

If it does fail, then quickly kill America and disband the knight army. Magnetism is in 2 turns and when complete can hold a cav army. We need to start pillaging ASAP - the AI already has industrialization. Maybe going for America was a mistake.

If we succeed, I would send both armies across. We may want to consider explorers for more pillaging.

The workers you see are fleeing American lands. They were not captured last round so they may make it. I put each one by itself so only one would be captured per attacking unit. Some may make it alive.

Good Luck

Here is a picture of the 3 city attempt:

[Edit: The one labeled "This stack needs more Cavalry. Has Trebuchets" is only defended by one defender. Decide if you need more. Remember the unprotected workers were not attacked last round. That doesn't mean a longbow won't attack the lone cavalry and capture the Trebuchets. You could wake a fortified healing Cav to cover as well.]

I am not sure why we are having such terrible RNG luck in this game!

Greebly's attempt to get those three cities looks good. Let's see if we can make it. Even if we do not make it in the next few turns then IMHO, we should bite the bullet and abandon tke knight army and ship off a cav army ASAP. If the AI is on Industrialization means they are not far from RP. Which means they will be landing infantry soon which will make defense even more difficult.

Arizona_Steve -----> Up
Mark1031 ----> On Deck
betazed ----->
Greebley -----> Just Played
jb1964 -----> Skipped till 19th.

Agreed.

We should also keep building Cannon in fairly large numbers. We will want enough that we can knock 2-3 rifles and then infantry down to a single HP. It will be especially rough before we get rails for instant access

Once we do have rails the excess cannon will be useful for taking out enemy cities. :hammer:

[Edit:
I didn't see any rifles yet which is unusual if they have industrialization. Nationalism is very high on the AI priorities. Probably a good thing.

We may want to let settlers land if the AI has money. In Meli's 5CC AWM, we got a lot of cash taking out enemy cities. Note however, not a single AI tried to land in the empty part of the continent my entire turn, though that may change of course.

We may want to let settlers land if the AI has money. In Meli's 5CC AWM, we got a lot of cash taking out enemy cities. Note however, not a single AI tried to land in the empty part of the continent my entire turn, though that may change of course.

That's a very good point, Greebley. Yes we should definitely keep that in mind.

(0) 1425AD
Let's see if I can pull off the two army trick. There's not a lot to comment on. Rome, at 20 shields/turn can make anything. Veii, at 16 shields per turn is best suited for cavalry and it'll be switched over once it's cannon completes. Cumae is sheild-light and can continue with cannon. Neapolis can continue with cavalry and Antium is absolutely perfect for musketman production.
We already have a leader available in Antium for our second army.
Bring science down to 40% and gain us positive cashflow while still bringing Magnetism in two turns.

IBT
Spain lands a mixture of five units next to Cumae - a Musketman, Conquistador, Crusader, Medieval Infantry and a Pikeman.

Veii - Cannon -> Cavalry
Neapolis - Cavalry -> Cavalry

(1) 1430AD
I fire five cannon at the Spanish invaders but only succeed in taking one hitpoint each off the Musketman and the Pikeman. Lose a Cavalry on the Musketman. Kill the Crusader with a second Cavalry. A third Cavalry kills the Pikeman and promotes to elite. Fourth Cavalry takes out the Musketman. Fifth Cavalry takes out the Conquistador. Finally, I bring a Medieval Infantry out of Cumae to kill the Spanish Medieval Infantry, and he also promotes to elite.
Now to turn my attention to the Americans. I start by checking out who's defending Chicago, and like the others, it's defended by Musketmen. We got a lot of cavalry healed this turn, so I send a bunch of them towards Chicacgo. Knights will be sent towards Seattle or Philadelphia, due to their lesser range. I hope to have three attack stacks of approximately equal force in the next few turns.
Our three workers in American territory still live, so they are moved away.
No drop in science possible.

IBT
Lots of shelling of Antium by enemy ships.
The Mongols land two cavalry next to Veii.
Magnetism comes in. Research started on Theory of Gravity.

Cumae - Cannon -> Cannon

(2) 1435AD
Three bombardments on the Mongol Cavalry score two hits. Both cavalry are killed by veteran cavalry, giving us one more elite. I'm avoiding using elites while the leader is hanging around Antium - what better time than now to promote a few veterans?
I begin bombardment of Seattle and Philadelphia, and establish that both cities have two musketmen each. Since Philadelphia is going to be the tougher nut to crack (it's on a hill) I add to the attack troops that are standing by there.
Neapolis gets switched over to a Galleon. We could do with something to transport our armies to the other continent.
Shift science to 50% for some deficit research.

IBT
The Spanish request an audience. I tell them to shove it.
A Mongol Cavalry and Medieval Infantry pair land next to Veii.

Rome - Cavalry -> Cavalry

(3) 1440AD
I get two hits on the Mongol Cavalry, leaving the full-strength Medieval Infantry on top. Two veteran cavalry win against the invaders, but no promotions this time.
Move units into position to attack America next turn. I leave one Cavalry in place to attack either Chicago or Phildelphia if necessary, although Philadelphia will pretty much determine my success at this.

IBT
There's real trouble brewing as the Mongols land two Cavalry and a Settler next to our horse colony. There are no landings in our territory though.
Japan requests an audience.

Antium - Musketman -> Frigate.
Neapolis - Galleon -> Galleon

(4) 1445AD
There's only a Legionary and a Medieval Infantry in range to deal with the Mongol horse colony raiders. The Medieval infantry loses, but the Legionary wins. Our workers are in danger though, but things will have to wait until I've dealt with America.

Now for the moment you've all been waiting for...

I start the attack on Philadelphia, as this will determine whether or not I continue. I get two Musketmen and a Pikeman down to two hitpoints each. Time to press the attack. Three veteran Cavalry beat the two Musketmen and the Pikeman and...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/BZ8-1445AD-1.jpg

Spare troops not used in the attack are sent to deal with the Mongol Horse Colony menace next turn.
At Seattle, both Musketmen are redlined with our Trebuchets. It is a mere formality for two veteran Cavalry to finish them off...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/BZ8-1445AD-2.jpg

Finally, Chicago. Our Knight army does this all on its own without any other assistance, taking out a veteran Musketman and a Regular Pikeman and...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/BZ8-1445AD-3.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/BZ8-1445AD-4.jpg

With our temporary total of eight cities, I immediately switch to Antium and turn Germanicus into an Army. Then abandon the three former Amercan cities.

IBT
The Mongols actually go for our Saltpeter colony. Then hit the wines colony. No harm done to us. And the settler DOESN'T EVEN MOVE OR SETTLE right next to the horse colony. Hows that for :smoke: ?

(5) 1450AD
Kill the Mongol colony-clobbering Cavalry.
Use a redlined legionary to remove the Settler threat next to our horse colony.

IBT
Spain lands a Knight next to Cumae. The Mongols land three Cavalry, also next to Cumae.
A Privateer attacks our (empty) Galleon. We win, but yellowline.

Veii - Cavalry -> Cavalry

(6) 1455AD
I can only get one cannon hit on the Mongol Cavalry stack, but the Spanish knight is easy picking for the Cannon in Veii, and is redlined. Three veteran Cavalry take out the Mongol stack, and the Medieval Infantry in Cumae smacks the Spanish Knight silly.
I load two elite Cavalry and a veteran into our new Army. If our yellowlined galleon survives, the Army will be loaded onto it and sent forth to pillage the other continent, as I will have a fresh veteran Galleon available for protection.

IBT
Our yellowlined Galleon is completely ignored.
Spain lands two Crusaders and two Musketmen by Cumae.

Rome - Cavalry -> Cavalry.
Cumae - Cannon -> Cannon.
Neapolis - Galleon -> Galleon.

(7) 1460AD
Our new units come in handy, and bombardment takes two hitpoints off each of the Spanish Musketmen. I pull three cavalry out of Rome to take out two Crusaders and a Musketman, and our ever-present elite Medieval Infantry finishes off the remaining Spanish Musketman.
I am bringing a few Cavalry back home to replace the ones that were put into the new army. The remaining Cavalry are scatters around the remaining landmass to guard against landings.

IBT
Usual bombardment. No landings though.

Antium -> Frigate -> Frigate

(8) 1465AD
I try to move our galleons away from a Spanish Frigate and Privateer. Hopefully the Frigate will go for the city rather than our ships.

IBT
Too many Privateers around. Both our Galleons are sunk, although we send two Privateers to the bottom and redline a Frigate. Both Galleons were empty though.
Spain lands a Rifleman, Musketman and Medieval Infantry next to Cumae. Looks like they did get Nationalism.
And then the people expand our palace.

(9) 1470AD
So seven cannon shots can only get two hits, yellowlining the Spanish Rifleman. Three elite Cavalry take them out though.
Time to drop Science a notch, as our treasury is getting a little low. 40% gives us 12 gold per turn.

IBT
No landings.
Spain starts Universal Suffrage.

Neapolis - Galleon -> Frigate

(10) 1475AD
Yay! The first Spanish Frigate bites the dust.

There's a Galleon sitting in Neapolis, and Frigates being built there and in Cumae. It seems that the Privateers like to come in swarms when a ship leaves port, so plenty of defence will be needed.
Theory of Gravity is due in 6.

Capital job Steve (for executing it) & Greebley (for setting it up nicely) for pulling off the 2nd army. :goodjob:

I would ship both armies over for pillaging. First the cav army and then the knight army. The faster we pillage the better.

Arizona_Steve -----> Just Played
Mark1031 -----> Up
betazed ----> On Deck
Greebley
jb1964 -----> Skipped till 19th.

Two armies! woohoo! That will definitely help. Good work on pulling it off, Steve.

It sounds like the boats are very predatory this game. We definitely don't want our boats sunk with the armies in them. I guess the best way to do this is to have our frigate galleon stack out to sea empty for a turn. If all seems quiet we ship the army across. Ideal would be to stop one full movement away so we minimize our time in enemy waters.

I agree on getting across ASAP, which means concentrating on frigates in the short term. Explorers make a nice addition to a the knight army strike team. They can move 3 and pillage and are good for taking out terrain that slows movment. The army doesn't need to stop in every square.

Pre: Switch Neopolis to Galleon. Move Knight Army back toward core.

1475:zzzz

1480: Rome Cavà explorer. Can spit out explorers 1/turn. Move Frigiate out of Antium to scout.

1485: Spain lands Crusader, MI, rifle,Musk @ Cumae. All killed no losses.

1490: Spain lands 1 Cav and Mongols 2 Cav. All killed no losses.

IBT: loose a Frigate Moving from Neopolis

1495: Scout frigate reaches Spanish Capitol. Nice place to land for pillaging.

IT: Frigate attacked looses 2 HP

1500: Kill Spanish settler/AC pair. ToG comes in and we are in the IA. Spain/Mongols up all 1st level techs. Start steam due in 28 @break even research.

IT: Loose scout frigate

1505: Spain lands 2 mus, 2 MI, 2 cav at Rome. All killed no losses.

1510: Mongols land rifle/settler pair. They have about 600 gp so I let it found a city.

1515: Spain lands Rifle + cav at Rome. Killed both with no losses and we get a leader. Don’t know what to do with him. He’s fortified in Rome

1520: Destroy Mongol city but loose a cav. Net 13 gp. Frigate attacked promotes to elite

1525: Mongols land 4 Cavs. Spain 2 cavs and con. All at Rome. They are wiped out for the loss of 1 cav.

Summary: Sorry not a very good set of turns. We have plenty of arty to defend the home front with few losses but I made little progress in getting armies over. Shipping was heavily harassed just trying to rally in our home waters. We finally have a bit of a Navy which is ready to be loaded with either both armies or 1 army and 4 explorers. Good luck getting over.

Got it. I will try and ship over the armies.

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031 -----> Just Played
betazed -----> Up
Greebley ----> On Deck
jb1964

I did an entire write up and lost it. :mad:

Anyway, here are the key points again, and there are a ton of good news

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bz8_1575.JPG

(a) I have been able to plunder some gold from cities settled on our landmass. That gives us some money for research. Steam is now due in 6.
(b) Both armies are overseas. Knight army is pillaging Spanish lands.
(c) Cav army is headed towards Mongol lands.
(d) Knight army is to be joined by explorers under army cover. That should speed up pillaging
(e) And the big one, Spain and Mongols are at war. [party] The blue ellipse is the war zone.

Things are looking up.

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bz8__1575_AD.SAV)

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031
betazed -----> Just Played
Greebley -----> Up
jb1964 ----> On Deck

One more thing, Spain has lost its saltpeter and horse (I have pillaged them) and a lux. So they are about to be rolled over by the Mongols (I am guessing). So things should get easier from here.

@jb1964: Are you back?

Back in town. Got it. Looking good.

Did some reading... I'm not sure how ya'll pulled off two armies but I'm more than a little impressed.

1575AD - The cities look relatively happy. I can pull research back to 50% (-26gpt vs. –44gpt) and still get Steam in 6. Everyone is still royally pissed at us. We’re weak compared to both Spain and Mongolia. Glad they’re at each other’s throats. Looks like the Mongols have the advantage. Not sure if we weaken Spain or concentrate on Mongols? Well, the goal is elimination so we’ll make sure our explorers target Spanish territory.

Spain lands two crusaders and two muskets next to Cumae
Rome, Veii, Neapolis Calvary - Cavalry

Turn 1, 1580AD
Spanish landing party slaughtered. No losses.
Land explorers and cover with army. Army pillages and comes back to cover. Cav army moves into Mongol territory after witnessing Spanish and Mongol troops skirmishing.

IBT: No landings.

Turn 2, 1585AD
Pillage both Spain and Mongolia. Kill off a Spanish rifle sitting on top of a Mongolian iron. We’ll disconnect that next turn. (I left an explorer hanging as I figured the movement wrong.)

IBT: No landings. Army takes shots at enemy troops as they kill each other. Loose explorer. That will not happen again.

Turn 3, 1590AD
Pillage. No stupid moves this turn.
Madrid is almost unhooked. Pillaged Mongol iron and are headed for horses.

IBT: No landings. Cumae cannon – cavalry. Going to bring the fleet back and carry over some offense.

Turn 4, 1595AD
Pillage

IBT: No landings. A Mongol galleon, escorted by three frigates, crosses my naval path and continues heading for our shores. Fine. Rome cavalry – cavalry.

Turn 5, 1600AD
Pillage. Steam in 1 turn. I belatedly start moving our fortified workers/slaves back to the homeland to rail.

IBT: Still no landings. Mongol “fleet” still skirting our shores.
Steam comes in and we fortify w/ a knight. We set to researching Electricity for Replaceable Parts next. Anything more than 10% is a negative number for 42 turns. 10% research it is for the time being.
Mongols get Universal Suffrage. They need it. :smug:


Turn 6, 1605AD
Move arty near Cumae over a tile to cover potential “near Rome” landing by Mongols.
We have a couple of coal deposits and colonize one.
Veii, Neapolis and Antium Cavalry – Cavalry
Santiago is cut off. We send the sailing cavalry to join the knight army and explorers for further pillaging power.

No Landings. Spain moves galleon next to shore between Cumae and Neapolis. Mongol galleon and escorts still heading NW along the northern coast.

Turn 7, 1610AD
Pillage, etc. Workers begin railing.

Mongols land two cavalry and a rifle and ask for peace. They’re up PPress, Music, Nav, Nationalism, Med, and Industry. Spain is up the same techs. Japan is just waiting to be killed. Maybe Medicine for population growth would have been a better idea. Didn’t consider that.
Spain lands a Cavalry. We snicker.

Turn 8, 1615AD
Invading forces wiped out w/ no loses.
Musket that landed w/ the 3 cavalry pillages. Cavs move along the mountains towards the Army.

Aside: All is very quite. I’m not seeing any rival battles or movement of troops towards our pillaging forces. We are now average in strength vs. both the Mongols and Spain. Our ships have not met w/ any resistance. At this point I don't see how we loose.
AI tech lead...
Med - Not much help w/o improved lands and investing in hospitals at this time just gets AI dead faster.
Industry - build factories and have countyside pillaged.
AI will not get to MTrans before it's far too late.
Nationalism - AI's biggest advantage and can be countered w/ Arty and Cav.
Nav, PPress & Music do little to counter our strategy.

IBT: Loose a cavalry to the Spanish. Rome cavalry – cavalry.

Turn 9, 1620AD
Pillage silks and choke point in Mongol territory.
Pillage in Spain. Retreat 2 cavalry to musket on Mountain in Spanish territory.

IBT: Zzzzzz

Turn 10, 1625AD
More pillaging. No retaliation. Cavalry army is set to pillage coal resources next turn.
My railroading has been haphazard. Still moving workers over roads to work within our boarders.

We’re back to being weak compared to the fascist Mongols. We’re still average compared to the communist Spaniards. There have been no attempts to pillage our resources outside our boarders.

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bz8_1625_AD.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/rome1.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/spain.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Mongol.jpg

:) It was actually Greebley's turn to play but that is ok. Greebley can play now. Good turns except for 2 things.

(a) I would have gone for Industrialization first. We need factories more than infantries now
(b) I would never attack with the armies now. Their job is to just pllage.

Other than that, very good play.

Arizona_Steve ----> On Deck
Mark1031
betazed
Greebley -----> Up
jb1964

Do we have coal in our territory?

Looking at the save I have a couple of more points.

(a) We should definitely switch to Industrialization. We can get it in 25 turns at minimum loss. I am sure we will get it sooner. We do not want to research Electricity since we will be researching that at first price (neither mongols nor Spain has it).

(b) There are four workers fortified near the former American territories. I put them into RR'ing.

(c) I am not sure in the efficacy of shipping cavs over now without artillery support. In fact if we have enough cavs now to defend the homeground I was even thinking of switiching the cities to wealth production to get to Industiralization (we get it in 20 turns instead of 25) -> Medicine -> Sanitation -> Electricity -> RP sooner then build massive artillery and take out enemy cities one by one.

What does everyone think of this idea? Is that feasible.

I don't know - giving up 20 or more turns of unit production seems harsh. Also you are giving up 20 turns of Production to produce 50% faster 5 turns early doesn't seem to work well. If I was going to switch to Industrialization (which seems a decent idea) then I want to continue to produce units and do damage.

It looks like the cities to the immediate SW of us might possibly be an island. If so, I might try to invade there and clear it.

I think the two options are to go with your wealth idea, or to use our units to destroy the enemy cities. I am slightly more in favor of the latter idea. The other reason for my favoring attacks now is that if Mongol and Spain are currently at war, then they are weakening each other which will make our attacks more successful.

If I start seeing cities defended by Infantry however, I may fall back on your plan Betazed. The only problem is that industrialization doesn't help us if we aren't building units. I think I would prefer going medicine-sanitation over industrialization as larger cities will increase our science rate by more. i.e.
Med - San.

I got the game and have time to play. My current plan is to attack for now and if I see infantry, to re-evaluate. I will wait before starting to see if I get any opinions. If I simply lose all the attack units, well then we have less unit support and can up science (and will again re-evaluate).

This post is pretty muddled: Let me see if I can enumerate the options.
Units:
1) Produce units and use them
2) Switch to wealth

Science:
a) Industrialization first
b) Medicine, sanitation first
c) Electricity, Replaceable Parts first.

My current favorite plan is 1a, I think I like 2b and 2c over 2a for my reasons listed above. We are currently going for 1b.

Greebley,

On more thought I think I like your idea of going Industrialization and producing units and doing damage as we go along.

So 1a for me too.

Thanks for the input. Good stuff.

With the lower cost of going after Industrialization switching's a good move. Also, having limited production facilities it make sense to make them as robust as we can.

We have two coals in the territories to the South. One is colonized.

Preturn: Switch to Industrialization. Upgrade our Trebuchets.

Early: Build workers when towns are size 12. Realize we are still missing granaries so build them in towns without (the workers I build can be merged into towns after Sanitation and in the meantime build rails. Finish up our Infra builds (colloseum) so we don't have more units taking up our gold.

I do lots of pillaging

Mid: Land on SW Mongol lands in the mountains. The Mongols take a spanish city. I take a small risk and attack the cavalry now guarding the town with the knight army. I raze the town and move the army onto a mountain to heal next turn.

I spot a Mongol Saltpeter. I may be able to stop the Cav?

It is looking more and more like there are islands. We may be able to clear those which would hurt the mongols

Late:
Mongols take another Spanish town (it is nice seeing so many Cav die doing so. The town is guarded only by injured Cav so I again use the army to attack and raze it.

I attack and raze the first town on the suspected Mongol island.

I pillage the Saltpeter and check Diplo. The Mongols don't have it anymore! Success.
Send a Cav to check if the Spanish have reconnected their Saltpeter. I jump him from mountain to mountain (the cav are not being attacked on mountains) so it takes longer.

Confirm that the mongols do have islands. This will make it easier. We should be able to clear the islands before Rep Parts I think

I bring over a fairly massive force to the Mongol island. It leaves us thin at home so the next troops will probably defend. We have had no landings recently. The AI has enough to worry about in its own lands it seems. We should be able to clear the island with what we got (13 cannon, 9 Cav, 1 Elite knight, 3 Muskets). Note that I just used our leader on a colloseum so we can now get another.

I think both armies should pillage the Mongols. They seem the bigger threat.

We have a bunch of injured units in the Spanish territory. They are simply doing as much as they can before they die - mostly by killing longbows and keepin the area pillaged. General Harrassment. We have gotten our "moneys worth" from them so shipping them across was not a bad idea.

The spanish are attacking units on mountains with their longbows.

The Mongols have probably reconnected their iron. Also they will probably work on reconnecting the Saltpeter. You want to check on those regularly as you cannot see the road after you leave the area.

I would continue to build workers when towns reach size 12. We can merge them back in when we get Sanitation.

Research on Industrialization has been going slowly. I think it is a tossup between Sanitation (Size 20 towns and the Much needed Battlefield Med) and RP (artillery and Infantry).

We now have the final infra - colosseums and granaries in most towns.

Here is a picture of our pillaging units. It also shows the island nature of Mongol territory. Hopefully in the next two turns we can clear the 1 or two islands of cities.

One thing I meant to do but forgot:

Send out some of the Frigates to explore and find all the islands and cities.

I will be travelling from this wednesday thru Monday. If my next turn comes up before Tuesday of next week (6/29), then I will probably need a swap or skip.

If I can play, I will post a statement to that effect before my normal turn.

Arizona_Steve ----> Up
Mark1031 ----> On Deck
betazed
Greebley -----> Just Played
jb1964

Good job Greebley on finding those islands. Yes we should clean them out. I would say after Industrialization we should go the Medicine -> Sanitation way. We need size 20 towns fast.

Got it. I will probably play tomorrow as I am also up in LotR13.

(0) 1675AD
Nice to see the Mongols and the Spanish getting pillaged to death. The Mongols are still somewhat viable, so I'll leave the Cavalry army over there to pillage, and assign the Knight army to the Spanish.
Man, we unloaded a ton of units onto Mongol territory last turn. I count 24 units in all, including 13 cannon. I think I'll be having some fun this turn.

IBT
One spanish longbow impales itself on a cavalry in the mountains, and gives us another elite cavalry.
The Mongols land a cavalry next to Cumae.

Veii - Worker -> Cavalry (citizens juggled around to get back to 20/turn - The city will still grow next turn).
Antium - Worker -> Worker (we need some mines here).
Cumae - Colloseum -> Cavalry

(1) 1680AD
Drop science to 10% for one turn to get some more gold.
Kill the Mongol cavalry. And get another elite Cavalry.
Bomb the Mongol fleet that landed the Cavalry.

IBT
Someone left a bunch of units in Spanish territory. There's not a lot I can do as a number of them are taken down by longbows and rifles. Still, a few Spanish units died trying.

Rome - Cavalry -> Worker
Antium - Worker -> Frigate
Neapolis - Colloseum -> Cavalry

(2) 1685AD
Frigates are moved to intercept the damaged Mongol landing fleet.
Science back to 20% for a few turns.

IBT
Only one elite cavalry remains in Spanish territory (apart from the army and explorers).
The Mongols move their two injured Frigates and injured Galleon right into my trap.
Spain lands a longbow next to Cumae. And leave their ships out there for our cannon to bombard.

(3) 1690AD
There are three fewer Mongol ships in the sea, and we have an Elite frigate.

IBT
Spain lands one longbow next to Cumae. Sadly, they don't leave their ships in range of our cannon.

(4) 1695AD
The Mongol city of Palma is bombarded and razed with the loss of an elite Cavalry (against a redlined Rifleman).

IBT
A bunch of injured Spanish ships slip by our frigates and move out of sight. They'll be located and killed next turn.

Veii - Cavalry -> Cavalry

(5) 1700AD
I manage to kill two out of three Spanish boats, but lose one frigate to poor RNG rolls.
I'm unable to move our cannon forward into Mongolia as there's Jungle in the way. I do kill a Japanese settler that landed last turn, so I'll use those workers to road the jungle.

IBT
Spain loses a frigate attempting to counter attack us.

Rome - Musketman -> Cavalry
Antium - Frigate -> Frigate
Neapolis - Cavalry -> Cavalry

(6) 1705AD
Yawn...

IBT
Cumae - Cavalry -> Cavalry

(7) 1710AD
More yawn. The most exciting thing I do is to switch Antium's build to a Worker.

IBT
Antium - Worker -> Worker

(8) 1715AD
I didn't even take a note of the name, but I attack the last Mongol city on the small island where all our cavalry are assembled. We get a lot of retreats taking out the two riflemen there, but destroy the city and clean out the island. I see green borders beyond. Maybe an opportunity to kill off the Japanese.

IBT
Spain loses another frigate attacking us. They also start Shakespeare's Theater.

Rome - Cavalry -> Worker
Veii - Cavalry -> Worker
Antium - Worker -> Frigate

(9) 1720AD
It looks like we've found the last Japanese city, defended by Pikemen. Troops are offloaded.

IBT
Rome - Worker -> Cavalry
Veii - Worker -> Cavalry
Neapolis - Cavalry -> Galleon

(10) 1725AD
Two pikemen and a Medieval Infantry are killed in the Japanese city (why do I keep forgetting to take a note of the names), and...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/BZ8-1725AD.jpg

Good turns. Nice to see the Japanese gone

FYI, the Cavalry in spanish lands were the ones dropped off and were purely for Harrassment purposes. they could sit out of range of speed one units, kill them and then retreat back again. This is how they survived so long.

By the time you got them though they were close to the end of their lifespan. Most were injured and the few on mountains were finally being attacked by Cavalry. Up until the end of my last turn there had been no rifles; only Longbow.

So not to worry that they died. They kept the spanish territory pillaged for 15 odd turns and killed their weight in Longbow.

Hopefully the next player can grab the units on the razed island and move on to the next island. I would keep 3-4 cavalry on the island to repulse future landings if we can spare them ( I am assuming there are two).

[Edit: Looking at the save I see we are already on island 2 and that there seem to be a whole lot of little islands to keep us busy.

We may want to chop the forests near the capitol - we may get BG's and will want to use all the squares when we get sanitation.

Good job steve on clearing out the Japs. Mark, I guess you should continue pillaging and clearing out the other islands.

Arizona_Steve ----> Just played
Mark1031 ----> Up
betazed ------> On Deck
Greebley -----> Skipped till 6/28 unless he reports otherwise
jb1964

Got it. Looks like this game is in the bag. Will keep main continent pillaged and keep clearing Islands.

Pre: Switch Cumae to galleon.
1730: zzz
1735 Spain lands 1 LB :lol:
1740 zzz
1745 Spain lands LB, Rif, con. Bombard and kill no losses. Most important railroading is done. Notice we have 13 native workers costing us $$$. They are executed for the good of the State. Destroy Mongol city (forgot name) no losses small island cleared.
1750 zzzz Moving troops to next island
1752 zzz
1754 Spain lands 2 rif 2 LB, Mongols land 1 LB. No problem, lose 1 cav.
1756 Destroy size 4 Mongol city on big island lose 1 musket, 1 cav. Industrialization comes in switch to factories in all cities. Med in 23 @ break even.
1758: moving troops
1760 Take Baruun-Urt (size 8) lose 1 musk,1cav.

Got it. Will play tonight.

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031 ----> Just played
betazed ----> Up
Greebley -----> Skipped till 6/28 unless he reports otherwise
jb1964 ------> On Deck

The native workers were to be merged into our cities once we got hospitals.

The native workers were to be merged into our cities once we got hospitals.

yeah, I thought of that too. But the maintenance cost of those workers were 26 gpt. And seeing that we are far away from Sanitation (at least 40 turns) maintaning them for nothing for so long would have been costly (the equivalent of about 1000+ gold).

So killing them was not that bad a move, IMHO.

The native workers were to be merged into our cities once we got hospitals.

Someone killed Kenny! :sad:

The cost IMHO was far from worth it. We can also merge workers from dead civs. But I also think we will be close to finished before sanitation anyway.

We need about 38 workers to merge to max size so merging workers from dead civs will not be enough.

I do agree with your second point, that we are not going to in the game for the long haul. The fact that 1/2 the Mongol Empire are on islands will really speed our victory.

If we were in for the long haul the workers would have easily paid for themselves on the far end. They would get us 4 or 6 gold apiece. Additionally, the fact that we wouldn't have needed to grow would mean we could mine instead of irrigating right away.

So I agree with your decision though it might have been better to discuss it first if you could. I do understand your thought though: RR done = disband workers. No biggie.

We may be close to the main island invasion, and should discuss how we want to handle that. I assume the islands are almost cleared now?

BTW, we should also be exploring everywhere. Nothing more annoying than realizing there is one tiny island still left that needs tracking down when you think you are going to get conquest instead (You can also check by using diplo to see what cities exist in the trading window (all but the capitol) vs the ones known about in espionage (all cities that are not under the fog of war). If they differ, then there is a city you haven't found yet.

Also, if we kept them during this time it would reduce our research pace and delay sanitation so that must be factored into the calculation. We have very little $$ and were running negative. I was thinking we can skim a few closer to sanitation if we want depending on conditions. Sorry though I should have checked with the team, I thought it was a pretty clear move.

Ok. I played my turns. Here is the status report.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bz8_1782AD.JPG


Spanish are landing LBs and the occassional rifle on our mainland. No problem taking them out. I have not lost a single unit in my ten turns. I generated one leader who rushed a factory.
Factories are all finished. I have also built coal plants. Seeing that we have enough firepower to take out cities and keep mainland safe I have switched two cities to wealth production. You can switch them back if you want to produce military.
Yellow circle is the island that I cleaned out. It has Mongol horses. So they do not have horses now. You will see an occassional keshik. But once they are killed that should be the end of Mongol horses.
I managed to raze 3 Mongol cities. One on mailand near the dyes which they lost and two on the yellow circle.
Green circle is troops poised to take Erdenet next turn. Make sure the army can cover the troops once they have taken the city.
Red arrow is a cavalry stack that is healing. You will probably lose a cav in the interturn. But that should be it. Next turn you can join the stack to the cav army and you should be good.
The Knight army is coming down because it needs to cover the area where troops are landing. This area is prime property. I am seeing settlers left right and center who want to settle on the dyes. The army is needed to cover troops that are landing and to keep the are clear. We have pillaged the Spanish enough. We can pillage them a bit later again.
I am not sure if Spain and Mongols are at war anymore. They both have corporation but not Electricity. They have 0 gold in their treasury which means that I did not get any gold from razing three of the mongol cities.


The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bz8_1782_AD.SAV)

Arizona_Steve ------> On Deck
Mark1031
betazed ----> Just played
Greebley -----> Skipped till 6/28 unless he reports otherwise
jb1964 ------> Up

It's a short workday, the relatives have left and the family is off at an all day swimming invitational meet. If the kids do well today then tomorrow will be another full day of swimming followed by a low stakes poker game.

I'll grab this in the afternoon and post in the early evening.

Looks like we can skip down the lower half of this continent crushing mongol cities. We'll take the knight army south once the troops have landed to shore up the open territory and move north looking for trouble if it's not coming to us.

Looks like we can skip down the lower half of this continent crushing mongol cities. We'll take the knight army south once the troops have landed to shore up the open territory and move north looking for trouble if it's not coming to us.

Sounds like a plan. Looks like we can finish this game even before Infantry and RP. That would be quite a clincher if we can pull it off. :)

Sorry I went until 1804 taking 11 turns but I turned the game around in the same day so I'll consider it a reward. :) Actually, I'll dock myself a turn next time around.

Cav Army killed the city, but it wasn't easy, and moved onto Mandalgoviasdfjhaewrf.

Stack of cavs and cannons didn't have to go looking for trouble. Killed off multiple rifles, LB, and an MI with losses of all muskets and a few cavalry.

Cavs and cannons formerly w/ Cav army stayed put to pick off passing rifles and almost experienced tragedy. The mongols Knocked the stack down to one single hp cav protecting 8 cannon and many slaves.

We retreated the Cav Army through the lines to cover the lone injured cav. Was also able to fight towards that spot w/ Cavs and cannon from the north killing a Mongol Great Leader in the process! I pulled out all the units from enemy territory last turn to heal. The knight army is pretty beat up.

Right now a single mongol rifle and LB are standing vigil over our very tall stack of ragged troops.
14 cannon
Cav Army 8/14
Knight Army 5/14
5 Calvary are collectively 9/24

Picked off Spanish figates and galleons at the cost of some of our frigates. Additionally we had a few landings by both Spain and Mongolia. All visitors were dispatched by roaming cannons and cavalry with no losses.

I have a frigate protected sea lane with galleons in route either way. There are 12 Cav headed towards enemy lands.

We finished up Medicine and started on Sanitation. With treasury low and anything but 20% research a negative number I put research at zero and hired a scientist in Antium. This came at no detriment to the production in Antium.

We have a GL in Rome waiting for something to do.

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bz8_1802_AD.SAV)

Sorry I went until 1804 taking 11 turns but I turned the game around in the same day so I'll consider it a reward. :) Actually, I'll dock myself a turn next time around.


No problem. You do not have to dock yourself. This is the end game and if anybody wants to take a few extra turns to knock of a few more of the evil Mongols or Spanish, feel free.

Arizona_Steve ------> Up
Mark1031 ------> On Deck
betazed
Greebley -----> Skipped till 6/28 unless he reports otherwise
jb1964 ----> Just played

(0) 1804AD
Looking around the map, I see a few problems. There's a Mongol settler on one of the islands we cleared out, but no troops to get rid of it. The Mongols also have horses and iron reconnected.
I'd like to get Sanitation done sooner if possible. but 20% science doesn't reduce the time.

(1) 1806AD
Sink a Spanish galleon.
AAAAAARGH! Goddamn units on GOTO. GRRRRRR. I click on three loaded Galleons to make sure they don't wander off without me telling them.

(2) 1808AD
I unload a dozen fresh Cavalry onro the Mongol/Spanish continent.
I notice that the new Mongol city only has a longbow on top. Maybe I can get rid of it.
Spain completes Shakespeare's in Toledo.

(3) 1810AD
Kill off a number of Mongol units that reach the border, including a settler.

(4) 1812AD
With no troops emerging from Mongolia, I begin moving troops towards their cities. I'd rather not worry about the stack of workers standing there, so I just go ahead and disband them rather than (potentially) have them captured.

(5) 1814AD
Damn Mongol Cavalry appeared. I need to get some pillaging done.
Kill two Settlers, one Spanish, one Mongol.

(6) 1816AD
I remove the offending Mongol city from the island that was formerly cleared. The other two islands are also reinforced with fresh cavalry.
Another Spanish Settler is killed.

(7) 1818AD
Not much. Moving towards Ulaanbaartar, which has horses and iron nearby. Horses are disconnected.
Oh great. Now the Spanish have Cavalry too. Whatever happened to our pillaging campaigns?

(8) 1820AD
Yawn...

(9) 1822AD
Ulaanbaatar is burned to the ground.
Kill the three Spanish Rifles and a Longbow that landed next to Cumae.
Disconnect Spanish horses.

(10) 1824AD
I'm pissed. The defenders of a substantial cannon stack are killed by the RNG. About half our cannon are lost.
Troops move towards Mandalgovi.
Do not, I repeat DO NOT stop the pillaging campaigns. I have been fighting a lot of Cavalry as a result of this.

got it tonight or tomorrow.

Ok, Mark I guess you have a lot of pillaging to do! Continue the onslaught. :hammer:

Executive summary highlights: In 1828 our armies take Mandalgoui with the loss of a couple of cavs. Most importantly we recover 8 of our mighty cannon that were temporally misplaced :D . Move troops around for a few years. Fight off minimal home front landings. Pillage Spain. Unfortunately I loose a few cavs defending the open space between Spain and Mongols as Spanish cavs become a pain. Finally in position to take Tabriz with 1 loss. Move on toward Ta Tu.Pillage a bit on the way. Have 7 fresh cavs shipped over and try to take Darhan without arty support. Goes well and only lose 1 Cav to 2 reg and 1 conscript Rifles. Well that’s about it. We have a decent cannon stack but their hit rate is pathetic we could use more.

Betazed, I can play after you in the normal order. I will be back in time to do so.

I will play tonight

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031 ------> Just Played
betazed ---> Up
Greebley -----> On Deck
jb1964

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bz8_1872.JPG

I played a few turns more than 10 to take care of some crucial attack.
I have been able to raze 4 Mongol cities and the spanish capital. The spanish capital I took out just with the cav army. You can take out a city with just the cav army very carefully in about 4-5 turns. With a completely healed army attack and take out rifles one at a time. You will be able to take out on the average more than 1 rifle every two turns. In about one or two turns the city will start consripting and conscript rifles can be taken out easily, a whole bunch at a time. I was able to take out the Spanish capital and the cav is poised to take out the new capital. However, make sure that the cav army does not drop below 8 in hp. But DO NOT FORGET TO PILLAGE TOO.
The mongols are down to 4 cities.
Next player should be able to take out Karakorum in the next couple of turns. You have quite a few cavs converging on Karakoram.
I landed 16 cavs last to last turn and lost 6 of them to spanish rifle counterattack. :(
We need to wipe out Mongols and need to turn attention to Spain quickly.
We have less than 150 turns left in the game. I am slightly worried about a histographic loss.
Also Spain has electricity. So it is probable that they are researching RP. I do not want to face infanty.
[b] Once the Mongols are finished off, our forces will be concentrated near Dalandzagad. Instead of the long trek back to Spain lets use a sea trip to transfer forces more quickly along the yellow arrow route.

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031
betazed ------> Just Played
Greebley ---> Up
jb1964 -----> On Deck

Greebley, if possible play till you have wiped out the Mongols. I am getting slightly impatient in getting this game over. Hoping the other players will not mind this idiosyncrasy of mine (at least not too much :D )

Ok, I am back home and can post my got it. Looks like the game is into the end game. Excellent progress all.

Preturn: Do some MMing:
I can get the hospital a turn earlier if I put the scientist in Antium to work. I do so and will move him somewhere he doesn't make a difference.
Neapolis can get the hospital next turn by going to -2 food.
I add Netherlands and American workers to Rome until it hits 80 shields and can build a Cavalry every turn.

We don't want to go for Replacable Parts with science? Hmm.. the problem is it would be that it takes 100 turns as 10% science puts us negative cash. So we need stock exchanges first. Makes sense.

IBT: The rifle attacks our Cav on a mountain and kills us taking no damage itself
Neapolis: Hospital->Cannon

1874: I add 4 workers to Neapolis. This gets us gold for the most part (up to +43). Move some Cavalry. My guess that we will have this game won in 20-30 turns.

IBT: Conquistador lands
Veii:Hospital->Cavalry (2 turns)

1876: Add some workers to Veii to gain 20 more gpt. Once we get the other two towns up to 16 people research might be worthwhile. Bombard spanish boats.

IBT: Some more boats are coming
Hospitals in the last 2 towns.

1878 AD: We attack the Capitol Krakatorum (however you spell it) and raze it - we don't lose a single unit (6 retreats). We also attack a size 2 Spanish town and destroy it. I start up Battlefield Medicine in Veii (Haven't got a leader yet).

After adding workers to the cities, I raise science up to 40% which is slightly negative on the cash. Corp in 13. The stock exchanges will definitely help so I will push for them. Our larger towns allow this.

1880 AD: Healing. I send the cannon on to the next city. We are starting to get pollution. Spain has Guerillas and thus RepParts.

IBT: Some more spanish ships bombard

1882 AD: Cordoba is destroyed. I am moving toward the Mongols as well as Spain. The cannon however are moving toward Spain as I think we can deal with the Mongols with just the Cavalry

IBT: Oops Spanish cavalry. Saltpeter was reconnected.

1884: Send army off to pillage saltpeter. It occurs to me that destroying the town near the saltpeter makes a better target anyway. I attack Longrono, but it is heavily defended.

IBT: Some Spanish attacks.

1886 AD: Movement of forces. No attacks

IBT: Some Spanish attacks

1888 AD: Destroy the second to last Mongol town leaving only the Capitol.

I merge more workers into the city. We no longer have suffficient workers to clear pollution on hills or mountains in one turn, but the extra cash is almost certainly worth it (I merged about 36 of our workers) we have 27 left. 24 clear pollution on flat

IBT: Mongols actually have some boats out.

1890 AD: Healing mostly. Our units were injured. I will stop here as it is an even turn and feels like 10.

Notes:
The cannon are heading north to help out with Spain. Bring them to the coast to pick up the cannon. The Galleons to the South are to pick up cannon to bring North

Some cities are well guarded like Logrono. We need all the Cavalry in the area to take that city out; otherwise we just injure a few units. Alternatively use the Cannon or Army to help out.

Battlefield Med in 2. I got elite victories, but no leader to rush it.

The lack of roads and cities to heal in makes progress a bit slow. It might take more than my max guess of 20 turns (or maybe not). We seem to have plenty of troops.

We are at 40% science and -11 gpt. We will get corp in 7 at which point, 5 stock exchanges and Wall St. will greatly help our finances. I am assuming Rep Parts after that. Artillery would help greatly.

Here is the last Mongol city. We have some units healing. The army should be healthy next turn.

Here is a zoomed out map of Spain. The counters have been fairly light. The biggest problem is getting the units to the cities and the long healing times.

[Edit: Any place that you cannot see directly by a unit probably has roads even though it appears not to. The army was going for cities most recently. We may want to pillage a bit. The only exception would be toward Toledo.]

Nice work, Greebley.

Arizona_Steve -----> On Deck
Mark1031
betazed
Greebley ------> Just Played
jb1964 ---> Up

Got it.

Good work Greebly.

Now that this game is coming to an end I would like to start thinking about Bz9. Any ideas?

I was thinking of the following 2

1) A straight Sid game on pangea huge map. All victory conditions will be open and we just need to win. I think it will be a decent challenge.
2) A custom map that I would make where there will be three continents, a civ in each, min turns for research is 1, and sea movements increased drastically. All civs will be given all resources and exactly similar land types, with conquest being the only victory condition. Game level will be Sid or Deity. This will really test our war mongering and planning skills.

Comments and more ideas welcome.

It would be interesting to try 1; I am really curious on how that would play out. What percentage land would you use? I would be torn between making it 40% to have a chance to settle some cities vs lower land to slow the AI.

Given some of the tight starts in SID I have had, I think I would prefer the 40% land and using the first start whatever it is.

For two, you may want to do something like disallow bombardment, unless you play at Sid level.

I would currently prefer 1 over 2.

What percentage land would you use?

I was thinking of max land. IMHO, that would be the hardest variation of Sid. I just want to see if that is winnable. We can restart as many times as we like to make sure we have a decent start.

I'm interested in either variant. I have so too cowardly to try Sid level so far.

The Save, 1910AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bz8_1910_AD.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bz8_1910.jpg

As you can see, the Mongols are dead. First attack took our Army down to 4hp. We healed to full, brought in more cav and repeated.

I went pillaging through Spanish land with the other army and unhooked their iron. We also unhooked a few of their cities from this world.

We have a large number of cavs and cannon, that can't hit s***, in and near Spanish territory.

We can't keep up with polution around the cities.

Landings are getting rare.

Plenty of elite victories but no leaders.

At this point in the game I'm not sure more detail is really needed.

Opened the save and the spanish are definitely on the way out. Good Work!

For the pollution we can maximize a town to growth and pull the workers out again. They are cheap.

Some towns can be MM'ed to positive food.

It might be worth starting a prebuild for Wall St in Veii. Not that we really need it...

Good job, jb.

Arizona_Steve -----> Up
Mark1031 ------> On deck
betazed
Greebley
jb1964 ---> Just Played

I will start up the Bz9 thread today. However i I will be away from tomorrow and will be back only on July 7th. So there might be a pause in that game for a while.

For the benefit of lurkers and other team members I post this pic.

Steve, do not forget to MM the cities before your press spacebar.

Also, play as many turns as you like. There is not much remanining in this game.

The Bz9 game is here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=92733) if you want to check it out.

(0) 1910AD
I start by offloading a galley onto two Spanish workers. Our cities are micromanaged to avoid starvation with the exception of Antium, which has pollution on three tiles.
Antium gets a FOURTH tile of pollution during the interturn.

(1) 1912AD
Ships are positioned to block any Spanish Galleons that may want to recolonize the former Mongol lands.
I go for Toledo, but there are loads of defenders there. We only lose one cavalry.

(2) 1914AD
Murcia razed.

(3) 1916AD
Wall Street gets started in Rome. Due in 4.

(4) 1918AD
(5) 1920AD
I finally bombard raze the Spanish capital, defeating a seemingly endless array of rifles and the odd guerilla or two. In the last four turns it was pop-rushed from size 7 to size 1. Capital moves to Seville.

(6) 1922AD
Wall Street is completed.

(7) 1924AD
Our lands are finally pollution-free. Wonder how long it'll last though.

(8) 1926AD
One more spot of orange goo cleaned up.
The spanish city of Zamora is destroyed, and their empire is split into two. We get a bumper crop of six workers from the size 1 city.

(9) 1928AD
For some strange reason Neapolis is no longer happy at size 20. It'll have to starve.

(10) 1930AD
Spain is down to three cities. Many cavalry are headed towards Seville, while another troupe is heading towards Zaragoza.
Since Betazed wants this game finished, I may as well do so, since I should have this game nailed in ten turns or so.

(11) 1932AD
WTF??? Cumae riots for no apparent reason. It certainly didn't grow.
And more bad news. Our redlined Knight army is killed by a Guerilla.

(13) 1936AD
Seville is razed. Capital jumps to Santiago. Two more cities to go...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/BZ8-1940AD-1.jpg

(15) 1940AD
Zaragoza succumbs to the cannon and the Cavalry.
I have 17 cavalry and an army in range of Santiago. With the best defender there being a regular Rifleman, I go for it. The Cavalry Army defeats the final conscript rifle and...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/BZ8-1940AD-2.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/BZ8-1940AD-3.jpg

Fortify the remaining units, clean up the last orange goo in or land and...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/BZ8-1940AD-4.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/BZ8-1940AD-5.jpg

Score 1450 - Caesar the "Terrible"

Many thanks to everyone involved for an excellent game! :goodjob:

Congratulations. What a great game :thumbsup:

When I got into this, my first SG, I had no idea the 5CC AWE meant. After figuring out that we were limited to five cities and AW was "always war" I questioned the sanity of this endeavor.

Anyway, great game! Thanks for the education.

BTW, what does the “Bz” stand for?

I must admit...I thought this endeavor was doomed when I first saw the concept. Congratulations on a well-played game. Next time, though, play a true 5CC and not a relaxed 5CC and see if you can pull it off. :)

Unfortunately, I also see it as another data point in the "C3C is horribly unbalanced, mostly because of armies" problem. It's a shame, but it's making me start to lose some interest in the game. :(

Arathorn

Congrats everyone!

I too was dubious whether we could win this, but we ended up crushing it.

I agree a pure 5CC would be the next level of challenge. One could also try on a standard map.

We did have some luck in this one. That peninsula was pretty much the perfect size for 5 cities. Boat attacks are nicer for us in that we always get first attacks when they land.

I do agree that armies are unbalanced - not because the concept itself is unbalanced, but because the current AI does not correctly handle them. Same is true on bombardment and bombers. I was pretty disappointed to hear the next patch was put on hold. I was really hoping they could add one more level of tweaks to the AI to fix these major difficientcies.

I also think the smaller the map the more important armies become. A single army can pillage a much greater percentage of the map. I am guessing that AWS would be easiest on a tiny map by a good margin because of this. I would like to see a AWE game on a large map to see if armies were "good enough" to pull out a win (It almost certainly depends on the starting conditions).

A great game everyone. :goodjob:

This game was in a little doubt sometime in the middle but after that we coasted thru. So we did a 5CC AWM on a standard and a 5CC AWE on a small. Can we do a 5CC Always War Deity?

Maybe that is an idea for Bz10. :)