Bz7 died a long time ago and I went away from succession games. Time to come back.

The title says it all. Apart from map size and game variant nothing is fixed as of now.

This game will be in C3C. I would like to play in the latest patch but if the majority prefers 1.15b that is fine with me too.

Sign up and post your comments about civ type, map type etc.

Players:
Arizona_Steve
Mark1031
betazed
Greebley
Gengis Khan
jb1964

Roster Closed.

Since LotR13 runs relatively slowly, I'll sign up for this. Should be a fun challenge. I can play either 1.15 or 1.22 (I have both installed).

Steve, you are in.

Any ideas for which civ you would prefer?

Hmm... My top choices in no particular order...

Romans - Commercial trait will help with unit support and research. Militaristic for cheap barracks and more leaders. Awesome UU in the Legionary.
China - Not so sure about the usefulness of Industious with only five cities, although it gives us walls from the start. Militaristic and an awesome UU make it a good choice though.
Greece - Commercial and Scientific, plus a UU that will help us in early war. Although a Despotic golden age might be a problem.

I personally like the Romans and Chinese. Golden Age would be better timed with Chinese riders. Scientific may be useful for the extra tech at each era. Religious, Seafaring, Expansionist, Agricultural are all relatively useless for this varient.

Map choices. Continents, any percentage (60% ocean would be the biggest challenge). Temporate, Wet, 4 billion years (wet gives us more rivers, and therefore fewer aqueducts).

Opponents. Might want to avoid expansionist as we will meet them earlier. Avoid Aztecs and Inca for the same reason.

Ok. So Romans it is. We will wait for others to join but if you so desire you can start a map and post it. I am currently at work and can only do so when I get back (in about 4-5 hours).

Let's make it C3C 1.22.

I'd like to join. What difficulty level? monarch or emperor seems possible.

I'd like to join. What difficulty level? monarch or emperor seems possible.

Welcome aboard mark1031. It is an AWE (Always War Emperor). ;)

@Betazed - I'm also at work right now, so I'll leave it up to you to start the game.

Ok. Here is the start and save.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bz8_Start.JPG

This was the first start that came up. Looks good. We are on a river (as you said wet). We see a gold hill and we have a wheat. Let's get those 5 cities up and running.

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bz8,_4000_BC.SAV).

Edit: Steve when you get the chance play the first 20 turns. As others join I will update the roster. We will go 20 turns for the first player and then 10 turns per player after that.

OK. I'll play as soon as I get home (in about three hours).

Initial thoughts.

The start position is not ideal. We will need to get the maximum productivity out of each city that we settle. If there are coastal tiles within the city's 21, we need to settle on the coast otherwise we lose one food per coastal tile as a result of not being able to build a harbor.

I see no single move that will put us on both the coast and the river. It looks like one move either North or North-West will give us a city that is on the river, but does not contain coast in any of it's 21. Of these two North-West looks like the better option, as it will bring in the wheat and one bonus grassland immediately, while grabbing the other three visible bonus grasslands once it's borders expand. We will also get that gold hill in range, while avoiding the tundra to the North-West of it.

So I propose moving the settler one tile North-West. Any other thoughts, suggestions?

makes sense. We do not want a water tile for our capital unless it is on the coast. I think towards the north there is tundra. I can see a little white there. I just hope moving NW does not bring a whole set of tundra tiles into the capitals border. I guess it is a worthwhile risk.

Umm. One problem. I founded Rome and immediately noticed that accelerated production has been switched on. This is definitely non-standard for a succession game, and I can see all hell breaking loose once we meet another civ.

I would prefer to restart without the accelerated production. Do you want me to go ahead and generate a new start?

Umm. One problem. I founded Rome and immediately noticed that accelerated production has been switched on. This is definitely non-standard for a succession game, and I can see all hell breaking loose once we meet another civ.

I would prefer to restart without the accelerated production. Do you want me to go ahead and generate a new start?


Oops. Sorry. Yeah sure, go ahead and start with a new one.

Generated the following map:

Small, 70% Ocean, Continents.
Temporate, Wet, 4 Biilion Years.
Sedentary Barbarians.
Emperor Level.
Accelerated Production off.

I took the first map that was generated.

Looks good. Let's go with this one.

(0) 4000BC
I begin by moving the worker onto the bonus grassland. It looks like we have a nice riverside start that won't have any coastal tiles in it's 21, so we settle immediately.
Settling Rome reveals a goody hut just outside the border. Since we don't want to pop anything bad when the borders expand, I immediately order up a barracks.
Research set to Bronze Working @ 100%. Due in 19.

(5) 3750BC
Bonus Grassland mined. Road started.
I hit F10 at this time and note that our opponents are the Dutch, Japanese, Americans, Mongols and Spanish.

(8) 3600BC
Barracks complete, start warrior. Science down to 80%.

(9) 3550BC
Borders expand, and the friendly Gaul tribe give us maps of the region. We have a corner location (good for Always War), with wines and incense within easy reach.
Luxury tax up to 10%.

(10) 3500BC
Our worker has to lose a turn crossing the river to get to the wheat, but I wanted to get some production up and running first.
Luxuries to 10%, science back to 60%. Rome is now size 2.

(13) 3350BC
Our first warrior is trained, and he is sent out to scope a limited area around our capital. An archer is ordered up.

(15) 3250BC
Uh-oh. A Dutch warrior wanders up to our borders. This could get ugly fast. There is no way I will trade Warrior Code for the Bronze Working and Pottery he has on offer (particularly as we're due to get Bronze Working in 4 turns anyway). At least this means he'll send warriors our way for a while.
I have to pull our warrior back. Let's see if he goes for the worker.
War is declared on the Dutch.

(16) 3200BC
Mr Dutchman goes for our worker. I pull him back into Rome and our warrior joins him.

(17) 3150BC
The Dutch warrior fortifies where he stands. Waiting for his friends no doubt.
Rome grows to size 3 and 10% luxuries remains enough to keep the poplace happy.

(18) 3100BC
Begin forest chop to speed the next archer.
Science dropped to 30% getting us Bronze Working this turn, and netting us two gold.

(19) 3050BC
Bronze working has come in and I select The Wheel.
Rome builds an archer and starts another.
I send the warrior/archer pair to kill the Dutch warrior squatting in our territory. Luxuries have to go to 30% and science to 50%.

(20) 3000BC
The Dutch warrior moved next to Rome this turn, hoping for an easy conquest victory. Our archer takes him down without losing any hitpoints, and the warrior moves back into Rome. Luxuries go back to 10% and science to 70%.

Summary: We got contact a little too early for comfort. Expect the Dutch to send their starting units our way in the next ten turns or so.

Damn the Dutch! I wanted to get at least a little exploring done before the fighting. The goody hut outside Rome's borders did give us two luxury-grabbing city sites though. I'd go for the Incense first, as I have a feeling the Dutch are in that direction.

A mite unlucky about the Dutch. We could have used a few more turns worth of exploration.

Mark1031 you are up.

Betazed, I would also like to join the game.

got it. this could be interesting. How many units do they start with on Emperor?

Turn 1 Rome archer-->spear

Turn 2 Move warrior onto mountain.

Turn 3 4 Dutch warriors appear

Turn 4 spear-->spear warriors head for Rome 2 more warriors appear.

Turn 5 Battle of Rome pt1:

Vet archer kills reg warrior looses 2HP
Vet archer perfect kill promotes
Vet spear looses 2 HP to conscript warrior but wins
4th warrior doesn’t attack, retreats to reinforcements

Turn 6

Turn 7 Battle of Rome pt2
3 reg warriors at the gates
elite archer kills reg warrior
vet warrior kills reg warrior promotes
spear perfect defense, promotes

Turn 8 yikes a green warrior appears

Japan is up wheel, pot, mas, CB no deal possible. Declare war.

Turn 9 Japan warrior fortifies outside our boarder

Turn 10/11 no Japanese attack.

Summary: I think I took one too many turns. We beat 6 warriors with no losses and 3 promotions. The God’s of war were with us. We have 2 spears 3 archers and a warrior. We are building settler. However we are broke and the next player will have to increase taxes until we get another city. Both Japan and Dutch are coming from the S SW.

Welcome aboard Greebley.

betazed ---> Up
Greebley ----> On Deck

I will play my turns tonight.

Geeze. 2550BC and we're under attack by two civs.

From my Always War experience, archers are always preferable to spears in the early game. If we play this right, the foreign troops will never be in a position where they can attack our cities, so offensive troops are required.

I think that depends on how you want to play. For example, if I have a city with walls on a hill, the enemy archers will implode against the spears with only a small chance of loss. In that case, you can get better results by letting them beat their heads against the city if they have spears covering their archers or the advantage of good terrain. For attacking warriors, you get better odds with a fortified spear defending vs attack compared to an archer attacking the warrior. I will often use the defensive method if the situation seems to warrant it.

If there are predominantly archers coming at you, and the terrain doesn't have big defense bonuses, then ya, the archers will work well.

I also base my decision on the number of enemy civs. The more civs attacking, the better I feel it is to hold a defensive line and go for the best kill ratio you possibly can. With fewer civs then I think an agressive approach where you cripple your enemies with attacks on their cities is better; especially if you can do this before contact with the next civ is made.

Good points, Greebley.

Good luck gents. Should be interesting with the land you have showing thusfar. 2 lux are nice if they can be secured.

I played my turns.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bz8_2110BC.JPG

Write up follows soon.

Turn 1 - Worker starts roading. Warrior going to explore the barb hut.

Turn 2 - zzz

Turn 3 - Increase lux. Warrior pops hut. We get much needed 25 gold. I popped the hut since it was on a hill and we can well defend ourselves even if it had barbs.

Turn 4 - Settler -> Spear. Settler moves to West.

Turn 5 - We discover another lux. Spices to our west. Settler and spear moves to position. Worker starts roading connecting cities.

Turn 6 - Jap warrior moves in closer

Turn 7 - Start IW. I hope there is iron nearby.

Turn 8 - Jap warrior killed my archer

Turn 9 - Worker starts connecting spice.

Turn 10 - zzz...

We have three luxes nearby. If we can grab them then we have a very good position.

Arizona_Steve -----> On deck
Mark1031
betazed
Greebley -----> Up

Ok, I got it. I am thinking of putting a town in the area to grab the incense even though that means we have several desert tiles within our boundaries. If anyone has thoughts on this, I will be playing in a few hours. Not sure if my turn will be long enough to build said town, but we can discuss.

That is the direction that the Dutch and Japs are coming from so bring enough military. After IW I like a run for the GL which would be very useful in this variant, we're already behind a bunch of techs.

I agree on the importance of the GLib. Don't think we need to start a run on it quite yet, but soonish.

Preturn: All looks good. Going to move a unit to give me advanced warning of incoming AI.

IBT: All is quiet

2070 BC:

IBT: Umm... American scout? I don't remember Americans being mentioned before. We have nothing to trade them and they are up 4 techs. I declare them to be scum.

2030 BC: I move toward the scout.

IBT: The scout flees our righteous wrath.

1990 BC: I continue to the hill to give me a view.

IBT: Scout flees
Rome: Settler->Spear.

1950 BC: Send settler and 2 archers to settle near the incense.

IBT: We get spices.

1910 BC: Still no enemies to be seen.

IBT:
Veii: Barracks->Archer

1870 BC: I check diplo - the japanese and Netherlands both only have 3 cities. The most probable explanation I can think of for both the lack of incoming enemy troops and their small size is that Japan and the Netherlands are at war. This would be a real piece of luck if true. Normally I would expect the game to be really nasty with 2 enemies met so early.

IBT: The Scout shows up somewhere else

1830 BC: Continue to move to settle the new city.

IBT: Japan is finally sending troops - 3 regular warriors.

1790 BC: Good lord: We have a fourth luxury nearby! We are going to have 4 luxes within our 5 cities. The odds of that must be pretty darn low.

IBT: Warriors move to avoid my archers (the pests). We complete Iron Working and start Masonry (the all important walls and ability for prebuilds).
Rome: Spear->Archer

1750 BC: We have Iron within our 5 city area :band:
I build Antium on a hill for defense. It is near the incense.
Our spear goes and kills the scout. Oops a real weed - I didn't adjust Rome last turn so we only got 3 food instead of 4 - this means we grow a turn later.

Notes:
I will stop here to even out the turns (which will then go 1500, 1250, 1000, etc)
I did not move the archers or the Elite warrior that found the gems and is next to a hut. The next player can pop the hut. I would wait for the spear to get back first though (It killed the scout so the town isn't defended). He can also decide if he wants to fortify them or chase the workers.
4 Lux and Iron is excellent for a 5CC. We could play 100 games and not get that.

I will post a picture in the next post. We should decide where city 4 and 5 should go.

-----------------------------------------------------
Betazed, We played Meli with a twist where we could capture 3 (or 7) cities in a turn keep them to get a second (or third) army and disband by turn end. I kind of like this because it is fun to try for the second army. That variant is not true 5CC however. Are we playing with the standard 5CC or are we allowing the capture rule? I am happy to go with which ever way you want to play it.

Here is a picture of our current empire:

Betazed, We played Meli with a twist where we could capture 3 (or 7) cities in a turn keep them to get a second (or third) army and disband by turn end. I kind of like this because it is fun to try for the second army. That variant is not true 5CC however. Are we playing with the standard 5CC or are we allowing the capture rule? I am happy to go with which ever way you want to play it.

I think that is fair. As long as we abandon the city at the end of the turn we should be good. Having an extra army makes a huge difference to the game.

Arizona_Steve -----> Up
Mark1031 -----> On Deck
betazed
Greebley

Got it. Looks like tomorrow will be an evening dedicated to Civ, as I am probably up in LotR13 as well.

I think that is fair. As long as we abandon the city at the end of the turn we should be good. Having an extra army makes a huge difference to the game.

Cool! I think the game will still be quite the challenge even with the second army to help (assuming we can get it :D )

Glad to see you back in SGs betazed!

I had just joined CFC when you were doing your Diety AW game, talk about mindblowing. I think I was was playing Cheiftan at the time.:lol:

Too bad the rosters filled. Ah well, good luck guys!

Too bad the rosters filled. Ah well, good luck guys!

Gengis, we are still just four players in this game and could definitely use another; so if you want to join then you are very welcome.

Just one thing. I notice that there's a considerable overlap between our three cities. While this is the preferred strategy for Always War (we can get our units from one city to another in one turn), I'm not sure it's going to help us with 5CC.

I seems likely to me that this will go into the Industrial Age. I'd definitely like to see size 20 cities with no overlap once we get to hospitals, simply to maximize production of units to support our wars. At this point the overlap will hurt us.

Any comments on this? I would plan at this point to move our cities to sites where there is no overlap. I would rather do this now than later.

If I have counted correctly (have I?) I see only a 2 square overlap between city 1 and city 2 and no overlap with city 3. IMHO, that is not too big a overlap and we can live with this as long as our city 4 and 5 has no overlap.

Count me in guys. First time playing with any of you(IIRC) so it'll be a learning experiance that's for sure.

I'll check out the save in a couple hours & chime in with my 2c, sort me in where ever.

@Ghenghis - If you have time, jump in before me. I'm also up in LotR13, so I'll play that one first (it'll take me a while too as it's a passive AWM in the Middle Ages).

Welcome aboard GK. :) I have put you at the end of the roster. If you can grab it before Steve go ahead and do it.

Arizona_Steve ------> Can play now
Mark1031 -----> On deck
betazed
Greebley
Gengis Khan ----> Can play now

I'm home and sitting at the computer, so I'll take my turns now.

My only thought on moving a city is that this is a bit difficult to place a city to grab the gems or to place a city North of Veii without overlap.

Moving Veii one square west would be of benefit as it grabs both the gems and spices and allows for a coastal town to the North as well as removing the mentioned overlap.

I am unsure if the cost of doing this would be benificial though. We can't really afford throwing away 2 pop points on something that long term. We could consider moving Veii later on. It is not that hard to build back a town in a 5CC.

/delurking - I don't think the overlap matters at all. If this game gets to sanitation you'll have plenty of cash to abandon through settler rushing and rebuilding again. What would be built in the city your abandoning? Rax,and possibly a library and a temple. All quickly rushed builds. You should have you area under control by that time or it won't matter anyway. Getting the lux is nice but manueverability is crucial so the distance between them matters a lot.

(0) 1750BC
I'm going to go along with Betazed's opinion and not move in the direction of moving the two non-capital cities. Hopefully by the time it becomes an issue we'll have cleared the foreigners off our island and be on the way to clearing the other continent.
As for our two final cities, I would like to get two on the coast to the North of Veii. These cities will ensure that both the iron and the two gems are within our borders.
One wine will be brought within our borders when Rome expands again. So there is little point in settling there.
Looks like most of our units are unmoved. I risk our elite warrior on a goody hut and you guessed it - angry barbs. Our warrior does get some defensive bonus from the forest though.
Swap Rome to settler and gain a few shields by moving a citizen from an unimproved grassland into a forest.

IBT
Barbarians all scatter withoug attacking our warrior.
Two more Japanese warriors appear, in addition to the three that are already visible.

(1) 1725BC
I'm able to push science up to 90% to get Masonry in five turns with a 1 gold/turn deficit.
Our worker moves one tile South-East and starts mining the bonus grassland next to Veii. The movement will let our warrior reach him before the barbarian does.

IBT
Looks like the Japanese are headed towards Rome.

(2) 1700BC
I pull our elite archer back towards Rome.

IBT
The barbarian warrior fortifies on a mountain. Looks like he can't even be bothered to go after our worker.

(3) 1675BC
I move our warrior onto the roaded wheat so he'll be able to attack next turn.

IBT
OK, so now the Japanese are going for our worker.

(4) 1650BC
Elite archer attacks one of the Japanese warriors in the stack of three. We win, but lose three hitpoints. I bring a spear out of Rome to cover.
I cannot speed up growth in Rome, so I leave things set up as is and get the settler this turn.
Luxuries to 10% for one turn.

IBT
Barbarian warrior wakes from his 50 year nap, and moves towards our worker. Two Japanese warriors are also in range.

Rome - Settler -> Archer

(5) 1625BC
I cover the worker and elite warrior with another spearman. The elite archer moves back to Rome to heal.

IBT
OK. This sucks. The two Japanese archers move onto our silks for a pillage.

(6) 1600BC
Back science to 30% as Masonry is due this turn.
Forgot to back luxuries down to 0% after the settler was built, so I do this now.
I kill one of the spice pillagers with the elite warrior. Decide not to risk the elite spear on the second.

IBT
As predicted, the spice road is pillaged. We need more offence.
Masonry comes in. Ceremonial Burial selected, 4 turns @ 70%. Some early temples will help claim more land.

Veii - Archer -> Archer (one turn late)

(7) 1575BC
I decide to fortify the archer in Veii in the hope that our Japanese friends will get skewered. There is also a Dutch archer on his way.

IBT
Two Japanese warriors attack Veii. Both die.

(8) 1550BC
Nothing to report

IBT
Dutch archer moves up next to Rome.
Barbarian warrior moves to pillage the mine next to Veii.

Rome - Archer -> Archer

(9) 1550BC
Veteran archer in Rome defeats the Dutch archer outside.
Elite warrior in Veii kills Barbarian warrior.
Veteran archer in Veii kills Japanese warrior.
Push luxuries to 20% to offset misery-guts in Veii.

IBT
Rome's borders expand, bringing wines within reach.

Antium - worker -> worker.

(10) 1550BC
With no foreign troops nearby, I move a spearman to cover our fourth city when it is founded.
Luxuries down to 0% now that military police are back in the cities.
Science down to 50% - Ceremonial Burial due this turn.

The settler is currently standing on a bonus grassland and should settle one tile to the North-West.
There is a spearman in the mountain nearby. He should head to city #4 for defence.
I would suggest going for Mathematics next to get us some catapults.

BZ8-1500BC.zip (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/BZ8-1500BC.zip)

I placed pink dot and light blue dot at two sites that would make good use of our land. There is a little overlap, but this shouldn't matter.

A temple will be required to get the gems in range.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/BZ8-1500BC.jpg

I think after the current research finishes we should start with writing and make a beeline for Philo. We can still research it first and take Lit as the free tech and make an early start on the TGL.

We definitely need more offensive troops especially in out incense town.

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031 -----> Up
betazed -----> On Deck
Greebley
Gengis Khan

Oh, the dot map looks good to me.

I also agree that the dot map is good and what I was envisioning. It is unfortunate that the shape of our land does not lend itself to non-overlapping towns, but I also feel laying them down quickly and defensively is more important than worrying about post-hospital constraints.

Sorry guys, was at work. Dotmap looks good so far, the only problem I see is that enemies can march right up to our Gem city walking along defensive terrain the whole way until we get that forest chopped.

I havent seen anyone coming from that direction. It may be a peninsula. That would give us plenty of time for chopping.

We will want a spear on the gems when we get the road up.

got it. will play shortly

We definitely need more offensive troops especially in our incense town.
Actually the incense town of Antium was completely ignored by enemy troops, who preferred to head up towards Veii and cause trouble there. As for city #5 (light blue dot), I would chop that forest at the first opportunity and get a temple going. This will remove the defensive terrain, and bring gems in range quicker.

Pre turn: Switch Rome to settler. Switch Ant to walls

1475BC: get CB, start pot in 4 @80% start to explore mountain area

1450BC Found Cumae start Rax, 2 Barbs die on spear in mountain

1425BC Lux to 10% Rome size 4, Dutch settler/spear sighted. Send out 2 archers.

1400BC Wow peninsula contains site with 3 wheat and fish. I think this should be our 5th site. Veii Arch-> spear

1375BC Elite archer beats spear looses 3 HP we have 2 slaves.

1350BC pottery in switch to writing in 13. Rome settler->granary. Send settler to wheat site

1325BC Veii size4 lux ->10%

1300BC 2 Dutch archers appear by Ant

1275BC Dutch at the gates of Ant as walls complete. Vet Archer looses to reg archer reduces to 1 HP. Last 2 archers win

Summary: Not much action. Exploration reveals we have only 1 front to defend and a very nice city site. Settler is on wheat site and should found where it is. Will be a little isolated for a while until we get a road over. There is an archer and spear in Rome that should head to the front. All 3 civs have writing. I would go max to lit (wouldn’t count on philo 1st) and GL. I wouldn’t want to loose it. We can pump some workers from Rome after granary and from wheat city to get things connected and then pump Rome up for the GL build.

CAREFULL I forgot to check f1. Veii will riot if you don't up lux. :eek:

Got it.

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031
betazed -----> Up
Greebley -----> On Deck
Gengis Khan

Hmmm.... Mark if it were me I would not have researched pottery now. All our settlers have been created we can very well wait for our granaries (which we may not even have time to build right now). I would have gone straight to writing as I suggested in my post earlier. We may not get Philo now but if we went to writing then I am pretty sure we could have snagged Philo and taken Lit as our free tech. Anyhooo.... what is done is done.

Pre turn :Adjust lux.

Turn 1 - Neapolis formed at wheat. While the Neapolis site is good, it is a bit too far for my comfort. We will see. Starts on a worker.

Turn 2 - Netherlands spear decimated.

Turn 3 - zzz

Turn 4 - Vei Archer -> Temple. We need it to bring the iron in our radius. Aother spear dispatched.

Turn 5 - Slaves move onto the wine.

Turn 6 - Writing -> Philo (due in 10).

Turn 7 - Netherlands archer dispatched.

Turn 8 - Spices connected. We reduce lux.

Turn 9. - zzz

Turn 10 - zzz

I think we should commit our capital to a prebuild for Glib. And use all the rest of our cities for troops.

Here is a pic.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bz8_950BC.JPG

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031
betazed
Greebley -----> Up
Gengis Khan -----> On Deck

A few things. Our city layout has changed. While the terrain of the last city is definitely better than the dot map we had thought of, it is a bit far for quick defense and offense. we will see.

Wines will be connected next turn you can reduce lux then. Spices is already back on line. There is a forest chop happening near Rome which should finish the temple sooner. We should switch it to Pyramids IMHO, and then to GLIB as Lit comes in. If we get it for free great, otherwise we go for Lit.

We may want to move an archer back from the incense city back towards Rome seeing that a spear is headed that way.

Good luck. I´ll be lurking this one.

Great start for this difficult variant! Let's hope your luck doesn't leave you. I'll be lurking..

P.S: If you put a chop into the temple you won't be able to change it to a wonder.

I did pottery because it was only 4 turns and I would like to see Rome @ 12. I actually didn't think about the philo race as I typically don't do that but just go for Lit. Sorry hope we get it. I would not chop any forest at Rome as the forest is good to have for shields to build GL in despo. We shouldn;t have to defend wheatville til MM and then only weak AI sea assults I would get the road over the mountains soon though. I would spit out a fair number of workers and then fold them back into Rome for GL build. Well thats my $02. Looks like we are in very nice position though for this kind of game.

Ok, I got it and will play this evening.

P.S: If you put a chop into the temple you won't be able to change it to a wonder.

The temple build is not for the GLib pre build. It will finish long before that. The temple build is to help with the lux tax. We have finished pumping settlers and now Rome can grow a bit.

I actually didn't think about the philo race as I typically don't do that but just go for Lit. Sorry hope we get it.

Don't worry about it. :) Even if we do not get it we are still ok. However, just as an FYI I rarely miss out on the philo gambit playing at Emperor and in many cases I manage to get it in Deity too and then trade Lit around to get into tech parity. It is a real cool thing in C3C. Sometimes I have got a SGL on getting Philo, taken Lit and built the GLib. :) Suddenly the game becomes half the difficulty.

Well we couldn't have asked for better terrain around us for an AWE, having to defend one border with only token "galley defense" in our other cities will help out immensely.

Betazed, I think you missed two turns. 950 is 12 turns. not that it really matters

Preturn: Things look good. I do wake an archer and spear to deal with the incoming spear. I also think about temples, but decide they are not yet necessary. One in Antium would be nice though to expand the border. That allows us to move fast on roads while the AI cannot.

IBT: Dutch Spear shows up

925 BC: Wines connected. Lux to 0. This is good as we were low on gold and losing to per turn. Now we are breaking even.

IBT: Another Dutch Spear and Japanese warrior.

900 BC: Move units to cover a worker on the incense

IBT: Japanese fortifies

875 BC: Decide to change Neapolist to a temple. It needs the expansion more than a long barracks run. It could get + 5 food which should be good for something. A spear climbs a hill and see a choke point. Think I will go for it. Lux back up. Attack spears and warrior and win. There is an unprotected Japanese settler.

IBT: 2 Dutch archers are seen.
Rome:Temple->Worker
Veii: Temple->Worker

850 BC:
A spear is next to the archers to try to catch 2 workers.. Lower science. We have 3 gold losing 1 and are 2 turns away.

IBT: The archers attack the spear and lose. The spear has 3 hp.

825 BC: Decide to go after the Japanese settler. Get two workers that split up so one can escape alive. Unfortunately, there is another dutch archer who may kill our spear. Odds are with us as we are on a hill and we both have 3 hp. Science to 10% to get philosophy in 1. Yep, we missed it by a single turn. That is why I could turn it down so much, though of course the unmet civs might have it already.

IBT: Both archers attack the spear leaving the workers alone (even though they are unguarded). It manages to survive (that is 4 archers total it has survived).
Rome:Worker->Pyramids
Veii: Worker->Spear

800 BC: Science back up to 70% Lit in 16. Injured spear retreats.

IBT: 2 Dutch Spear and Archer are now in view.

775 BC: We have a very tenative closure of the choke. We should get iron next turn with temple expansion.

IBT: Ah yes; Legions not Swords. Even better.

750 BC: I change the three unit building towns to Legionaires. We will get 2 in 4 turns. Going to take my full 10 turns.

IBT: Archer attacks our fortified spear on the hill. There is a 1 square choke, but I think I prefer the 2 squares as they are hills (I will post a picture in the next post).

730 BC:

IBT: Boats are going around our choke.

710 BC: Advance an archer.

Notes:
I think we should trigger our GA rather than wait
1) The 3 defense will really help us hold the choke and allow us to go on the offensive sooner rather than waiting.
2) It will speed the building of the GLib and gets us Legionaries so we can go for a pre-pike attack.

Beware of boats coming around At least one legion may be important to defend our homelands from landing troops.

Gengis, You are up. Good Luck

I tried to mark the last known location of enemy boats. I am not 100% sure I got the civ right.

I marked where I planned to irrigate. I originally started replacing the mine, but realized that was suboptimal.

You can see the choke in the picture.

Betazed, I think you missed two turns. 950 is 12 turns. not that it really matters


:wallbash: I always manage to do that. In the heat of the game I lose count.


I think we should trigger our GA rather than wait
1) The 3 defense will really help us hold the choke and allow us to go on the offensive sooner rather than waiting.
2) It will speed the building of the GLib and gets us Legionaries so we can go for a pre-pike attack.


Agree. We should definitely trigger our GA. So I see three luxes connected, iron connected, and a choke point to defend with maybe a galley or two behind us. Things couldn't have been better. Well played Greebley.

Arizona_Steve -----> On Deck
Mark1031
betazed
Greebley
Gengis Khan -----> Up

Decide to change Neapolist to a temple. ... It could get + 5 food which should be good for something.

This screams out "worker farm" to me. +5 food/turn +5 shields/turn and a granary will make this city pop out a worker every two turns. This will allow us to speed improvements throughout our land and get our other four cities to size 12 as soon as possible.

I would suggest getting the granary up and running once the temple is built.

We could :whipped: that granary

Got it.

I marked where I planned to irrigate. I originally started replacing the mine, but realized that was suboptimal.


I'm guessing your in a couple SGs with akots, huh?

Playing now, should be up in a couple hours. Or in the morning at the latest, if I don't finish in time tonight.

Actually I am unsure if I have played with him though I have read some games with him in it albeit not very closely. What part of the statement made you think of him?

Gengis, did you get a chance to play your turns?

I just downloaded to play around for a break from GOTM31 and the file gave me a lot of errors and never loaded. I'm hoping it's just me.
Enjoying the game guys. Looing forward to the outcome.

EDIT- I went back 3 past saves and they give me the same repetitive errors. It must be on my side. Now I'm worried. This is turning into spam so I'm signing off. Good luck again.

Barbslinger, We are using 1.22 here. I am guessing you tried to load with 1.15

Thats it!. Thanks Greebley.

Sorry for the delay guys, it was a very busy weekend.

I might have to be replaced, because I'm still running 1.15. I'm going to try to reinstall C3C with a different directory so I can run 1.22 & 1.15 at the same time, but knowing me it won't turn out well. I'll let you know if it works out & I can rejoin you in a day or so, but until then just skip me. I don't want to hold the game up anymore.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Arizona_Steve -----> Up
Mark1031 -----> On Deck
betazed
Greebley
Gengis Khan -----> Skipped

If you can install 1.22 over 1.15, then you can copy your civ IIl and upgrade the copy ( to copy (windows) I just went into my base infogrames directory; used ctrl-c and ctrl-v on the civilization directory to give me "copy of Cilvilization III".)
You can then just apply the 1.22 full patch to the "copy of Civ..." directory.

The only drawback to this method is that you need enough disk space for 2 copies of the saved games you have; at least until you delete the saves from the second copy. You don't need two copies of each and it may be confusing so I would do that if you try this method.

The nice bit is there is no reinstalling.

I am also running two versions of Conquests. In my case, I simple installed version 1.15, then copied the whole Civ directory to another directory. Then I installed 1.22 over my original directory. I've been playing with this set-up for a month or so without any issues.

In the age of 200+GB hard drives, I don't think that disk space will be much of an issue.

Oh, and "got it"...

Hey gang, if you're still looking for players I would like to join. Drop me a note one way or the other.

Thanks,

jb

ok, jb you are the sixth player. I added you to the end of the roster.

I think that should be enough. Six should be a full sized roster. :)

(0) 710BC
I don't have the forum page in front of me so I'm going to assume that the Pyramids in Rome is a prebuild for the Great Library. I see there's legionaries on their way, but with our defence looking a little weak, I'll probably use the first couple to bolster defences in our cities. When those galleys wandering up our shores finally land something, I'd like to have some troops waiting for them. I have a feeling those might be settler pairs though.
I move one citizen in Rome onto a roaded grassland to gain an extra commerce. There is also no point in mining the iron tile when we have bonus grassland next to Cumae unmined. The worker is awakened and moved.
Drop science down to 60% giving us positive income.

IBT
We lose a spear on the chokepoint to an attacking archer.

(1) 690BC
I'm worried about galley attacks, particularly at undefended Antium. So I decide to remove the blockage of the chokepoint for now, until we get some legionaries. I will probably place a couple of archers on the incense hill to attack enemy troops that move onto the adjacent plains.

IBT
Veii - Legionary -> Legionary
Antium - Legionary -> Legionary

(2) 670BC
I move one legionary towards Neapolis, while the second one remains at Antium. Two archers are placed on the incense hill.

IBT
Galleys move North. A Dutch archer fortifies on a chokepoint hill. Waiting for his friends no doubt.

(3) 650BC
Workers begin the Antium irrigation project.

IBT
More galley movements. Nothing else.
Spain completes the Oracle in Madrid. I hope no-one gets the Pyramids before we get literature.
A Japanese galley appears by the chokepoint.

Cumae - Legionary -> Legionary

(4) 630BC
Neapolis gets a legionary for additional defence. I'm also going to leave the new Legionary at Cumae, as there is only one spear there.
F3 shows that we are paying unit support costs.

IBT
Our Japanese friends land two horsemen next to Antium.

(5) 610BC
Disgusting. Our veteran legionary cannot even beat a veteran horseman on plains :mad:
An archer beats the second veteran horsie, but is redlined.
I bring out the elite spear from Antium and the goddamn Japanese horseman redlines and retreats :mad: :mad:
I split our four slave workers into two groups of two and send them to separate tiles. We will lose two slaves during the interturn.


IBT
Well the stupid horseman goes for the two workers in range of a spear and two archers. We do lose use of a mined grassland and Antium starves as a result.

(6) 590BC
An elite archer removes the final Japanese horseman.

IBT
Now here come the Dutch. Two spears and two archers come into view on the chokepoint.
The road to Neapolis is completed. Gems are connected to our empire.

(7) 570BC
Move troops back into Antium.

IBT
Two archers and a spear move next to Antium.
Dutch build what looks like Eindhoven near Neapolis.

Veii - Legionary -> Legionary

(8) 550BC
Veteran archer kills the spear next to Antium. Antium now has three elite archers.
Two elite archers kill the two veteran Dutch archers. Thanks to the road there I'm able to fortify a spearman on top of the final elite archer.

IBT
One Dutch spear moves onto the incense hill. I think I saw other troops heading towards Veii, which will build it's legionary before they get there.

(9) 530BC
Another quiet turn. There is a leagionary heading to Antium who will fortify there next turn.

IBT
Japanese come begging for peace. I tell them where to stick it.
Two Dutch archers move next to Antium. A Dutch spearman stands on our incense.

(10) 510BC
OK. Our legionaries are &^%$*& useless. Our legionary can only take one point off a spearman before dying :mad:
An elite archer kills off the spearman.
The two Dutch archers are dispatched by more elite archers.

Note that the Dutch spearman on the incense hill is covering another spear and a settler.

The Save - 510BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/BZ8-510BC.zip)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/BZ8-510BC.jpg

That's pretty bad RNG luck there steve. Oh well! Hopefully we will have better luck later.

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031 -----> Up
betazed ----> On deck
Greebley
Gengis Khan
jb1964

Before when you had 2 stacks on the hills to the south the dutch were on the real chokepoint and blocking anyone else. I don't know how the AI decides when to use galleys but I would have thought if they have no land route to you then they would be far more likely to use a sea route.
Just a thought.

Preturn: no changes
490: Japanese horse lands near Antium and is dispatched by elite archer which loses 2 HP.

470: literature comes in, switch Rome to great library. Turnoff science.

450: move Archer and spear to choke. America founds Miami near Antium. We'll get to that in due time.

430: Japanese Archer/horse pair lands at Veii. They are taken out by an Archer and elite warrior. We're still a bit thin on the back lines.

410: kill the Dutch settler/spear pair with elite Archer. Lose spear at the choke to a regular Archer and retreat our Archer to the hill.

370: Japanese land horse/Archer pair near Rome. Vet Archer loses to horse but takes off 2 HP. Move spear to cover workers. Move nearby legions into Rome. Archer kills horse at choke. Lux to 10%. Rome is now size 9.

350: spear covering workers survives Archer attack down to one HP, whew. Well I guess we wanted our golden age now. I was trying to put it off until a few more tiles around Rome were improved but here we go. Legion kills injured horse near Rome and we enter a great golden age. Kill regular American Archer with vet Archer near Miami.

330 Spain, an unknown and distant country completes the statue of Zeus. Good for them. Moving legions to the choke.

310 establish defensive border on the hills at the choke.

290 lose elite Archer vs. vet Archer at the choke.

Summary: we have 15 turns remaining of our golden age although we're not getting much out of it in despotism. Great library is due in 6. Defenses are holding but still a bit thin back home. We currently own the hills at the choke from which we can defend or attack troops on the choke. We have to build up more troops before going on the attack.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55866&stc=1

Is anybody else building the GL? If not then we have got it.

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031
betazed -----> Up
Greebley ----> On Deck
Gengis Khan
jb1964

This is my "got it". Will play tonight.

I had one game where noone was building the GLib with two or three turns to go (I think it was 2). The AI managed to get Literature, complete a wonder causing a cascade that switched to the Great Library and completed it all in one turn. Boy was I mad.

Since then I haven't counted on any wonder unless the number of turns was one. I do agree we are very likely to get it though.

It is too bad our RNG luck was so aweful. It is why catapults are so important in AWE. Knocking hitpoints off the spear before attacking greatly improves the odds.

If we don't get the GL I'll be shocked and pisssed in short order.

Good job holding down the fort. I played from the previous save and fared even worse on the RNG. I think my first turn will be a catious one.

I agree we need to shore up the backyard and grab/deny the tactically advantageous terrain.

IBT: Two Netherland archers commit suicide against two fortified legionarries on the choke hill.

Turn 1 270 BC: Elite legionnnary kills American archer.

Turn 2 250 BC: Leg kills american sowrd. Elite archer kills american warrior.

IBT: Dutch wants peace. Yeah right! :rolleyes: Palace gets a courtyard.

Turn 3: 230 BC: Japs lands a horse near incense town. Gets decimated.

Turn 4: 210 BC: zzz

IBT; We finish the GL.

Turn 5: One legionary dies againt an american spear. The next one takes it down.

IBT: We learn Myst, Math, HBR, Col, Poly, Currency, Republic and Monarchy

Turn 6: Elite legionnary takes out American spear. City autorazed. Trajan born. [party] :band: We should make a legionnary army out of him.

I revolt. Pull a 5 turn anarchy! Ok I guess.

Turn 7: Dutch ELite archer sacrifices himself againt legionnary.

Turn 8: zzz

Turn 9: zzz

Turn 10: zzz..

Anarchy should end next turn. Obviously we should go to Monarchy. Create some legions and take the army into Dutch territory. Let's take teh war to them. Attacks have dropped to a trickle. Everybody wants peace. So I guess we can easily go on the offensive now.

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bz8_90_BC.SAV)

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031
betazed
Greebley ----> Up
Gengis Khan ------> On Deck
jb1964

got it and will start playing.


Great work all on getting the GLib. I would not want to play this variant without it (or rather, I would play it, I wouldn't expect to win).

We have not seen a single Dutch sword or horse. :) This means that their best offense is archer and best defense is pike. We should be easily be able to take them out. :hammer:

Preturn: I make a Legion army. I don't move it so it can heal (I used the injured elite*).

Oh one comment on an earlier comment: Mining iron does make a difference. It is the one combination that gives 3 shields in Despot. Am I wrong? Not that it is high priority - I am just clarifying the statement.

IBT: We enter the middle ages. We become a Monarchy. We have an Army. We are in our Golden Age. Life is good.

70 BC: Rome needs a market so we can lower Lux to 0, but I want a legionary first (to deal with that town on OUR peninsula).

IBT:
Rome: Legionary->Market

50 BC: Army heads into the unknown entering english territory. I kill a spear on the way

IBT: We should build the Heroic Epic. A spear and warrior land

30 BC: We kill the spear and warrior without loss. One legion promotes to elite. I attack The Hague with the army and kill 2 spear.

IBT: Pyramids are built by Barcelona.

10 BC: Attack The Hague and kill 2 archers to raze the city.

IBT: Lots of Boats buzzing around like bees.

10 AD: Army heals

IBT:
Rome: Market->Legion

30 AD: Army heals. I kill a settler and spear that landed.

IBT:
Antium: Temple->Catapult
Cumae: Legion->Catapult
Veii: Legion->Market

50 AD: I raze the Dutch town of Eindhoven (the one on our Peninsula) We get 2 elite out of it. Army heads into Dutch territory killing an archer (there are several units nearby but I am ignoring those. I hope to pillage and destroy. I kill an archer, but not a horse.

IBT: Dutch replaces that razed city. The horse attacks and loses vs a legionary.

70 AD: I find Amsterdam. It is really close to our lands! Defended by spears so we may be able to wear it down if we want.

IBT: Not much

90 AD: Move 1 square to pillage and kill one spear in Amsterdam. I switch Neapolis to a Aquaduct.

IBT: The wonder cascade ends as 4 wonders are built.
Rome: Rome->Heroic Epic.
Cumae: Catapult->Aquaduct

110 AD: Attack Amsterdam killing another spear and our army needs to heal (I assume everyone knows armies heal in enemy territory?)

Notes:
I think that was 10 turns.

I am inclined to try to destroy Amsterdam while they have no pike.

The wonder cascade ended. We could try for Leo, Sistine, or Sun for denial purposes.

We need workers. I also worked on getting access to all the whole peninsula with workers and towns like Antium are suffering. (Not quite sure why we stopped irrigation to the town, but I didn't do any better and it really needs it).

Here is a picture. I feel we should go for razing Amstredam, but the other option is to just pillage and ignore towns. I killed 2 spear so far.

I too forgot about the irrigation plan of Antium. :blush: We should do that immediately.

Also on the Choke we should build fortresses (yes we need more workers). Razing Amsterdam should give us a few.

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031
betazed
Greebley
Gengis Khan ------> Up
jb1964 ------> On Deck

I'm walking out the door in about 15, when I get back in about 6 hours I'll let you guys know if my quest was successful or not.

Consider this a "got it" until my next post.

I started the irrigation around Antium, but had to stop when the Japs landed two horsemen next to the workers.

Great set.

No, I did not know that armies heal in enemy territory.

If you have already taken out two spears then my vote would be to work it the rest of the way into the dust. If it was me and an AI Legion army picked up and walked away from my capitol I would breath a sigh of relief. Taking Amsterdam out before pikes is a great idea.

This 5 city limit always war scenario is interesting.

Oh ya, I played the turns out a bit and the irrigation did get interruped by the Japanese horsemen. Although to describe my results as "interrupted" would have been kind.

I tried to dual install, got an error somewhere and have been spending the last 2 hours reinstalling Civ. I'm going to try again once I get 1.15 back up & running correctly but I'm afraid I'll have to ask for a skip. If it doesn't work this time, I'll find you guys a replacement player. Sorry again.

ok, gk.

Arizona_Steve ----> on deck
Mark1031
betazed
Greebley
Gengis Khan ------> Skipped
jb1964 ------> Up

Got it.

BTW, zipping these files is more of an annoyance than it's worth for me. Any objections to me just posting the .sav file?

Got a date w/ the wife tonight but tomorrow is open for me so I'll probably post on Saturday.

.sav is fine with me.

Fine with me too. If I forget just remind me again as I usually zip.

I attached the SAV for your convenience.

Later I found that zipping the file is pretty easy w/ XP. I just bought my first XP system this month and am still learning. I'll zip the files as well since it certainly can't hurt.

Ya, with XP it is really easy. I generally zip it while browsing for the save (I do a right click & choose compress) when uploading. Very nice as there is no "extra step" to compress.

I will be out for the weekend. So if I come up before Tuesday please skip me. Also someone please maintain the roster.

Thanks.

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bz8_AD280.SAV)
Didn't compress because it was only worth 10k. These saves seem pretty efficient.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Turn10.JPG

Pre turn…
Army needs to heal up some so I’ll reinforce next turn.

IBT: OK, we have no less than 7 ships buzzing our boarders. The Americans bring 5 swords towards our army.

Turn 1: I think discretion is the better part of valor so I move the Army to the hills to heal.

IBT: Dutch land a SoD consisting of a single regular archer. Yikes!

Turn 2: Neapolis legion -> cat, Veil cat -> cat
Vet legion redlines against the unfortified archer on open ground and promotes to elite.

IBT: The Americans seem to have a RoP with the Dutch as the stack of swords (5) are right on our butt.

Turn 3
Neapolis is maxed out on population so I switch over to an aqueduct and move the workers to our less developed cities. Lux down to 10%.
Our Army is now perched on our hill and will reinforce next turn.
Japan has 4 cities, America 8, and the Dutch 5.
We’re still technologically advanced. All hail the GL.

IBT: Ships move. No sign of our sword buddies.

Turn 4
Infrastructure and reinforcements. Compared to the Dutch and Japs we’re strong. Compared to the Yanks we’re average.
MM Rome to get growth from 4 to 1 turn

IBT: Japs want peace and I dismiss them. A Dutch spear is headed towards our hills.

Turn 5
Infrastructure and troop movement. The Army is up to 12/14

IBT: Dutch spear steps up to the base of our hills and certain death. Bravery? No, foolishness.

Turn 6
Two cats bring the Dutch vet spear down two notches and I finish him off with an elite archer who loses 2hp. Our fully healed army and an elite legion join the wounded archer on the plains.

IBT
Japs land a horse, Americans land a spear and a settler. Morons.

Turn 7
Antium cat -> cat in 5, Veii market -> legion in 3
Elite legion from Veii kills horse and takes one hit.
Vet Legion attacks regular American spear and dies putting a single hit on the spear.
Rome is at 12 w/ 18spt. All worked tiles are developed w/ a few to spare. Time to get Antium upgraded. Heroic Epic in 5.
Army and company move towards Arnhem. I keep the Cats on hill and add the one from Antium. The Army strikes Arnhem and takes out a regular spear at the cost of 5 hits.

IBT: American spear reinforces and settler does not found.

Turn 8
Elite archer takes 3 hits and kills regular spear.
Vet legion kills American spear and enslaves settler.
Arnhem has an unfortified spear so I attack with the elite legion. Flawless kill. No leader so I raze the city. No good targets other than some Dutch on the hills so I reinforce the Army.
Cats bombard a Dutch galley and I get 2 of 3 to hit redlining the boat.

IBT: The Dutch land two archers near Veii. Elite legion by the ruins of Arnhem dies to two archers. Not moving the army over and then reinforcing was a mistake.
We get Feudalism.

Turn 9
Elite legion kills one of the Dutch archers. Veteran archer from Veii kills the other Dutch archer taking two hits.
Army is back to 13/14 so I kill a spear and redlined Dutch archer in the open and move my 2/5 archer along for cover. The spear put 4 hits on my army bringing it to 9/14.

IBT: Americans land a warrior and a spear near Veii. Popular spot.

Turn 10
Veii is building a medieval infantry. I kill the American spear with an elite legion and take a hit. I risk a 2/5 legion against the warrior and kill him but take a hit. No leaders.
I upgrade a spear in Antium to a pike but will leave the rest of the upgrades to the next player. And the American swords never did follow us to the hills. Pity for Arnhem.

Save and screenshot are at the top.

Our army is defense 3 and I am pretty sure would not have been attacked.

Still I don't blame you for retreating. It is not something you want to err in the wrong direction on. The only way I have some idea about the above is by losing armies now and then. With one army it is not time to experiment.

Getting feudalism should free up some Legions from defense.

Did we finally irrigate Antium?

Lets see:

Arizona_Steve is up
Mark1031 is on deck

Antium - Irrigating to the NE. Done in 1 and road in 2. Slaves working on roads on the SE and SW tiles.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Antium.JPG

You were right. I reloaded and played it differently. The swords bypassed the army and dashed themselves against our hills. Well, only one or two died but the others took turns getting dinged by the cats. A legion promoted to elite. The army healed and I took out a spear and the fortified. Healed again and I took out two more spears with the second battle putting me in the red. IBT the dutch ran out archers and killed the army. :cry:

Got it, although it'll have to wait until tomorrow morning. Took the Mrs out to see "Day After Tomorrow", so it's a little late for me now.

Ya, going red is not good; they explicitly target you then. One thing you can do after the roads are pillaged is attack on the first move only. Then if you get really hurt, try to retreat. It doesn't work if there are horse of course, though retreating to a hill can occasionally save ya. It works well for civs with only 1 move though. Even better is to have two armies that can protect one another if one gets a bad round.

[Edit: minor changes for clarity]

(0) 280AD
The food box in Neapolis is full and this city needs an aquaduct yesterday. I spend 176 gold to rush it. Cumae, at 12 food/turn and optimized for shields, can wait. It will get it's aquaduct in two turns anyway, and can move immediately onto a harbor. I'm happy to see the irrigation crews back at Antium. Looks like we snagged a few slaves between my turns.
I'd prefer to have our army healing on a mountain. So I move it onto a convenient Dutch gems mountain.
Switch a couple of Rome's citizens from mined non-bonus grassland to forests to bring us up to 20 shields/turn. For a size 12 city, that doesn't really seem a lot. It will still grow in five turns, so after the Heroic Epic completes I can pop out a Medieval Infantry, then a Worker.

IBT
An American stack of seven swordsmen come into view in Dutch territory.
America starts Sun Tzu's.

Veii - Medieval Infantry -> Medieval Infantry
Neapolis - Aquaduct -> Marketplace

(1) 290AD
Bombard a veteran Dutch spearman three times, scoring two hits. I want to keep my troops healthy for the incoming swordsman stack, so I'm going to let this one go.

IBT
Rome - Heroic Epic -> Medieval Infantry
Antium - Catapult -> Catapult
Cumae - Aquaduct -> Harbor

(2) 300AD
A lone archer and the Legionary army take out a Dutch spearman/archer/settler trio that was attempting to refound West of Amsterdam with no losses. That seven swordsman stack is next to our army, but with the army at 11/14 I don't think it'll get attacked.
I attack the veteran Dutch spear from last turn, and redline it with one catapult shot. It is killed by our elite archer.

IBT
The American swordsman group splits into two groups of three and four. Our army successfully takes pot-shots at two of them.
In a moment of classic AI stupidity, the Dutch move a settler next to our army, and cover it with an archer :smoke: :smoke:
Dutch start Sun Tzu's.

(3) 310AD
It goes without saying that the Dutch archer/settler pair is killed off by our army, giving us another two slaves. Now if only I can get them back to our core.

IBT
The two pot-shotted American swordsmen are left behind, and the other five regroup next to our troops on the chokepoint.
The Dutch land two archers near Veii.
The Americans land a warrior and a spearman near veii.

Rome - Medieval Infantry -> Worker

(4) 320AD
We have a number of troops scattered around Veii, so I deal with this threat first.
Elite legionary defeats regular Dutch archer.
Elite legionary defeats regular American spearman.
Veteran archer loses to a regular American warrior :mad:
Now I wake our catapults at the Southern front, and hit three of the advancing swordsman. A fourth one is taken out by a Medieval Infantry. That leaves only one full-strength regular left, and he will be attacking veteran legionaries on hills.

IBT
And then the goddamn &^%$&^ regular swordsman attacks and WINS against a fortified veteran legionary on a hill :mad: A second 2/3 swordsman then takes out the elite archer there. Damn the ##$@Q$R% RNG. Damn it to hell :mad: :mad:
The American warrior decides to ignore Veii and goes for our redlined legionary instead. Our legionary wins.
Dutch start Sun Tzu's again.

Rome - Worker -> Medieval Infantry
Veii - Medieval Infantry -> Medieval Infantry

(5) 330AD
Looks like the catapult training is working, as we score hits on four American swordsmen, redlining two.

IBT
Dutch bring out another archer/spearman/settler pair.

Cumae - Harbor -> Temple

(6) 340AD
Another spear and archer destroyed, another two slaves. Still cannot get them back to our core though.
Medieval infantry kills a 2/3 swordsman on the chokepoint hill.

IBT
We lose our Medieval Infantry on the chokepoint, but not before he takes out two more American swordsmen.
The Dutch request an audience, and are told where to go.

Antium - Catapult -> Catapult

(7) 350BC
All swordsmen within range are redlined by our catapults. One more is taken out by a medieval infantry. This time I bring troops out of Antium to cover.
Rush marketplace in Neapolis.
Rush temple in Cumae.

IBT
Now it is the turn of the Japanese to smoke some :smoke: - as they land an archer/settler pair next to our army.

Rome - Medieval Infantry -> Medieval Infantry
Cumae - Temple -> Marketplace
Neapolis - Marketplace -> Harbor

(8) 360AD
Well I'm happy to say that the American swordsmen are no more, as the last three are redlined with catapults and killed up by our troops with no losses on our side.
Our army takes out the Japanese archer and nets us another two slaves. The six Dutch slaves can finally be moved towards our core.
Kill a wandering Dutch archer on our side of the chokepoint.
Switch Antium from Catapult to Marketplace and Rush it.

IBT
Looks like the Dutch have managed to find a few troops. All spearmen and archers though.
The Dutch also start Sun Tzu's for the third time.

Veii - Medieval Infantry -> Medieval Infantry
Antium - Marketplace -> Aquaduct

(9) 370AD
Our new slave workforce has been busy building a road across the chokepoint and into Dutch territory. It is finally complete.

IBT
No attacks. In fact the Dutch turn round and flee.

(10) 380AD
We have enough troops at the chokepoint now to keep a look-out for settlers moving or landing West of Amsterdam, so I place the army on pillaging duty to strip the foreigners bare.
Kill the American swordsman next to Veii. Dutch aren't a problem right now.
Decide to play on two more turns to round out the years.

IBT
The Dutch archer moves toward Rome and threatens our worker.
You guessed it. Dutch start Sun Tzu's for the FOURTH time.

Rome - Medieval Infantry -> Medieval Infantry

(11) 390AD
I move a Legionary out of Rome to cover our threatened worker. And move a second legionary next to Rome int Rome so that it doesn't riot.
Amsterdam gets some pillagin' lovin'.
Because of the large crop of slave workers, I merge one of our workers into Antium to bring it to size 5.
Hurry marketplace at Cumae.

IBT
Cumae - Marketplace -> Medieval Infantry
Neapolis - Harbor -> Medieval Infantry

(12) 400AD
Merge a second worker into Antium to bring it to size 6.
More pillaging around Amsterdam. It has dropped from size 8 to size 7.
Kill a veteran Dutch spear that was looking for a pillage.

Summary: Things are a lot quieter at the chokepoint now. I started the army on a pillaging rampage, and this should continue into America once the Dutch are back in the Stone Age. Keep a watch on the two ruined cities to the West of Amsterdam and South of our chokepoint. The AI has been periodically sending settlers there, and I have picked up 8 slaves this turn thanks to this. There should be enough troops on the checkpoint now to take full advantage.
I took the opportunity to use the large treasury I was left with to rush infrastructure in our cities. There are marketplaces in all cities, and only Antium does not have an Aquaduct. Due to the large amount of excess food at Neapolis, I would recommend mining and roading both of the gems mountains.

Thinks look good right now. Have fun.

...And the save file - BZ8-400AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/BZ8-400AD.zip)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/BZ8-400AD.jpg

I am glad we are getting our army out and pillaging (though I agree 6 workers is worth waiting for - that will help get us up and running). It will be nice to remove swords and horsese and especially Pikes.

Do ppl want to also destroy cities (with some risk to our army) or straight pillaging?

Mark is up.

After that it is Betazed or I depending on whether he is back by then. If he is not back and I have time to play, I figure a swap would be good.

In my opinion, the job of the army is to pillage our foreign friends bare. Attacks on cities should be made using a regular stack of doom.

got it . yes i really do. 10 word min :D

I remember reading a thread where someone was discussing sending .sav rather than zipping it. IIRC someone said it is important to zip as if it is corrupted at all it says so, otherwise an error can take a while to manifest itself and be unfixable.

Good luck with the game.

Preturn: mm Rome to 20 spt. Start Neopolis on galley to scout for other civs.

410: 2 Jap horses land at Antium. They are dispatched by 4 MI as they both redline and retreat. Pillage with Army.

420: Kill American pike/settler pair. Collect troops at the choke for advance on Amsterdam. Pillage with Army

430: Kill American spear settler pair at choke. What a joke. Where do they get the idea they can just plop down weakly defended settlers right next to our armies? Like I won’t notice. They send no troops really, just settlers.

440: Bunch of Dutch troops show up @ the choke. I get impatient and decide to attack Amsterdam with the pillaging Army. It’s only defended by spears. First attack flawless. Second attack loses a couple HPs. At the choke kill about 4 archers and a spear, lose 1 legion.

450: Continue attack on Amsterdam. Take out 2 spears and army is now in the yellow. Send out galley on suicide run.

460: More battling for position on the mountains and hills with Dutch spear/archer groups. We are finally getting the upper hand. Decide to go one more time with the Army. Kill spear to reveal the single remaining archer but am now in the red. I charge anyway and win. Amsterdam is burned to the ground through the heroic work of our army. Galley survives and we safely reach empty land.

470: Out of nowhere off a road appears a vet Jap horse which proceeds to attack our 3HP army. We go to 1 HP immediately but win the remaining 4 heats to survive. That was close. I almost lost the army. The new lands are not empty, we meet the Mongols. They are up engineering and chilvary. Don’t have Lit or $$. No trades we declare against these scum.

480: American’s land a MI/settler pair which is dispatched by an elite MI and… we get Hadrian. Move him back toward Rome for Col build so we can go to 0 Lux. Move troops into position for attack on Gronin.

490: Siege of Gronin: bombard with 5 pults, 2 hits reveal only 2 spears in the city. MI takes 2HP spear (after an archer shot misses). Legion takes spear #2 final Legion takes the Archer and we burn the city down. We meet Spain who are also up chiv and Eng. And down Lit. No trades and we declare. We get Mono, engineering, chilvary and invention from the GL. nice

500: Army is healed and we take out a spear settler pair moving into the open space. Hadrian builds Cathedral. Elite MI takes out archer and we get another leader. Leader heads back to the core.

Summary: We made good progress against the Dutch but it feels like a slow slog with no horses. I almost lost the army, which you could argue would have been a bad mistake but I sort of changed my view on armies this turn. I basically attacked because I was bored pillaging and waiting to get regular troops in place. But the attacking army is very powerful and took out a big city single handed. And it healed completely in 3 turns. I generally agree that they are best used in this type of game for pillage because they don’t get attacked. However, we are a militaristic civ with the heroic epic and we can only have 1 army at a time. I got 2 leaders this turn. If we lose an army another one shouldn’t take too long to get. Also, if we don’t use the army to attack we don’t take advantage of it’s ability to heal in enemy territory. Anyway, next leader can lower lux to 0 because Rome will complete Cathedral. There is a leader headed back to town for something, I don’t know what. We cleared a lot of space so the settlers will start streaming in soon. My goal would be to get to Jap horses ASAP so we can get some knights, we have chiv.

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031
betazed ----> UP
Greebley -----> On Deck.
Gengis Khan
jb1964

This is my got it. I am also playing AG7 now which I have to finish first. So I may not be able to get to this today but will definitely post by tomorrow.

Nice turns Mark. The GL is working some nice mojo.

Question: Why only one army at a time? I guess it's a C3C thing.

With Heroic Epic we should add another legion or MI to our army.

Its always been 1 army per 4 cities. Since we are a 5CC we can have 1.

If we capture 3 cities on the same turn we can build a second army (we can keep captured cities until the end of the turn but they must be abandoned before the turn ends - we cannot build them)

One thing I discovered in Meli's game:

Capturing and abandoning cities transfers all the bad moral from drafting and rushing into your five core cities

We should always raze unless we have a strong reason not to. This is especially true after nationalism.

Final note: Heroic Epic increases your chance of getting a leader. The small wonder that allows an extra unit is Pentagon. We are unlikely to get Pentagon as that requires 3 armies (or 12 cities = 5 + 7 captures in a single turn).

Capturing 7 cities at once is very difficult.

Doh! OK, I never read the fine print and I had forgotten it was the Pentagon that added the forth unit to an army.

Thanks for the clarification/education.

Higlights of my turn.


Rushed cathedral in our gem city using the leader. This allowed us to bring lux tax to zero. that increased gpt from 48 to 62.
Made libraries in all cities. We will need them as soon as Education comes in.
Made courthouses in all cities except the capital. One courthouse should finish next turn.
Joined all native workers to cities. These workers cost maintenance. Also some of our cities were not growing at all but could sustain extra citizens. These cities acccepted the new workers. Our treasury went up from 68 to 78 gpt because of this.
Lost just one MDI in the last ten turns. Decimated numerous American MDI and pikes and no less than 6 settlers.
All workers are slaves now. Some of them are finishing the fortress on the choke point.
We have learned Theology in the last ten turns from the TGL.
Army is just pillaging. Next turn should disconnect Japan's capital.


Now with 5 productive cities we are looking good. My only concern is no horse resource to be seen anywhere. IMHO, next player should make a colony on the saltpeter we control and start making musket and LB combination. No more MDIs.

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031
betazed ----> Just Played
Greebley -----> Up
Gengis Khan -----> On Deck
jb1964

Ok I got it. Hope to play at some or all tonight.

Early:
Upgrade a few units, especially cats.
Build Trebuchets for bombarding boats and units.
Skim a worker off Rome for another city.
Japans capitol is disconnected. Attack Kyoto
Several Elite victories but no leader.

Mid:
Raze Kyoto
GLib gets us Education. I start research on banking (19 turns).

Late:
Mongol build Sun Tzu
Get a Leader that I use to rush a university in Rome

Notes:
Rome is building a worker. Its purpose is to boost the population of Cumae or Antium.

Japan has only 4 cities. Right now they have spears guarding them. They have saltpeter but not the tech. If we attack their spear guarded cities (only if the army has 11+ hp, otherwise heal), we may be able to destroy them and have one less opponent.

Here is the save file

Good turns Greebley. Yes we should try to take out Jap cities one by one carefully with the leader.

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031
betazed
Greebley ----> Just Played
Gengis Khan -----> Up
jb1964 -----> On Deck

Gengis, you are up. Have you solved your installation problems or do you need another skip?

It also occurred to me that one advantage of a 5CC is that we can run some risk with the army since we will get it back with our next leader.

If we ever get a second army then that will change.

Tried 2 more times, but failed miserably both times(yes, I am that bad with computers).

Sorry guys, I'll have to bow out of this one. Really wanted to play too, this is a great variant & some great players to match, but it just wasn't ment to be. I'll catch you guys on the next one, and Betazed don't go back to spamland without starting Bz9 so I can get in.:D

I'll still be lurking of course, and I apologize again for the inconvienence.

No problemo GK. Hopefully your troubles will be sorted out by the time we start Bz9. :)

So the roster now is

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031
betazed
Greebley ----> Just Played
jb1964 -----> On Deck

Got it. Will

Got it. Will read previous posts and do battle tomorrow night.

FYI, heading out on vacation on the 12th and wont be back until the 19th. No computers. Just a beach towl and a fishing rod or two.

700 AD, Pre-Flight – Everything looks great to me. I’m not sure why everyone else is pissed at us but I’ll go with the flow.

<Return>

Mongols are building Copernicus
American, Dutch and Jap forces move in our general direction.
Neapolis treb -> treb
Rome worker -> MI

Turn 1, 710AD
Moving trebs to our choke and then probably into the field.
Army attacks Edo. After losing only 1hp to the defending spear we take another run at the size 4 city, kill the next spear and raze the city. Army beat down to 8/14.
Bomb American galley to 1hp
Kill off 4 archers yielding a GL.
Move GL to Antium to rush university after harbor in 2

Jap horse dies attacking MI
The Dutch seem intent on offering us their settlers as a sacrifice by within our field of view.
Veii pike -> MI
Our people bless us w/ two builds on the old palace.

Turn 2, 720AD
Fortify army 8/14 to heal up. Our elite (4/5) MI kills a spear wandering the countryside.
Trebs take three American pikes down to 1, 1, and 2 hp. Elite legion dies in first attack but second legion avenges the loss leaving the two single hp pike wallowing in a marsh. Using two more MI I kill off these pigs and enslave their settler. I immediately put my new slave to work building a road.
Roman worker joins Antium.
Banking in 11 turns at 60% research. Lux slider still at 0.
No enemy units are within striking distance.

Antium harbor -> university. Use GL, Claudius, to rush.
Neapolis treb -> treb

Turn 3, 730AD
Bombard and kill off a Dutch spear. Moving trebs and forces towards Roterdam.
Shuffle forces. American galley looks like they’re going to land a few troops.

Antium univ. -> MI
Rome MI -> MI in 2
Four American MI’s move in to get a kill. I think I’ll drag them near a trebuchet or 6.

Turn 4, 740AD
Army healed. Moving on Japanese capitol, Osaka, pop 5 and protected by a spear.

American MI come in from a different route and take out four units covering slaves building road to Roterdam.

Turn 5, 750AD
Kill off a Dutch archer and get another GL, Anthony, and two more slaves. He heads to Veii to build a university.
Pike pillages improvements N of Utrecht.
MI kills off Dutch archer near Utrecht but redlines.
I redline the American MI in the marsh but do not attack. If I do there are three more sitting on a roaded mountain waiting to swoop down on whatever forces I move in there.

Americans land 2 MI.
American MI attacks MI scouting around Rotterdam and dies. A second MI comes in and finishes our guy off.
Rome MI -> MI in 3

Turn 6, 760AD
Trebs beat up American Mi and a longbowman and an MI kill them.
Army kills off two spears in Osaka and winds up 11/14.

Antium MI -> MI
Neapolis treb -> MI

Turn 7, 770AD
Moving units and workers towards Rotterdam.
Army kills off two more spears on Osaka but goes to 9/14. We’ll heal next turn.

Mongols land a warrior near Veii.

Turn 8, 780AD
Killed warrior w/ vet MI. MI takes a hit and does not promote.

Turn 9, 790AD
Road built up to Rotterdam. Trebs bomb them and find that they have 3 spears.
Anthony rushes the university in Veii.

Antium MI -> MI
Veii MI -> Pike
Neapolis MI -> MI

Turn 10, 800AD
Our Army destroys Osaka and the Great Lighthouse. We liberate zero gold.


Redline the spears in Rotterdam and find they have an archer. Not enough forces to take the city and I’m across a river. I was hoping to bring their population below 6 w/ the bombardment but that didn’t happen.

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bz8_800_AD.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/shot11.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/shot2.jpg

Good turns. Just One thing. Why are we still building pikes when we can simply build a colony on the saltpeter?

Also, do we see a horse resource yet?

Arizona_Steve ----> Up
Mark1031 -----> On Deck
betazed
Greebley
jb1964 -----> Just Played

Good point. Not paying attention.

I moved out many of the slaves to road for our forces but another use for them could be to prevent landings around our territory. Ugh, human shields. Not a pleasant thought but a real one in the case of a game.

To get 20shp out of Rome I claimed a forest from Veii. But to do this you're in the red in Rome. If we chop the forrest maybe we'll get a bonus grass that can yeild the same benefits.

Autoskip me between the 12th and 19th.

I have the game and will play tonight (damn 10 character minimum message limit).

(0) 800AD
I start by switching Neapolis to maximum growth and changing it's Medieval Infantry to a worker. We need a maximum of five workers to bring all cities to size 12. I also go ahead and push growth in Antium. It will need a cathedral at some point though.
Science can be dropped to 40% for this turn to gain us 5 gold, while still bringing in banking this turn.
There's a bunch of units fortified by Rotterdam, and an elite Medieval Infantry should be a good match for a regular archer in a city across a river, so I take the plunge. We win against that archer and two more redlined spears in the city, and we get a second elite Medieval Infantry.
I'd like to nail that American pikeman/settler pair on the hill, but there are no units within range.

IBT
America founds Houston on a hill. Might be tough dislodging that one.
Two other settler pairs are in view.
Banking comes in. Astronomy selected.
Spain completes the Sistine Chapel at Logrono.

Neapolis - Worker -> Worker

(1) 810AD
Two trebuchets take two hitpoints off the last remaining regular spear in Rotterdam, and an elite Medieval Infantry razes the city.
I note that there's a source of horses next to the army.
Kill a japanese spear/settler pair, but lose a Medieval Infantry in the process.
Take one of our slaves and build a colony on the Saltpeter. Only then do I see there's an American Pikeman/Settler pair right next to it.
Use our excess cash to rush stuff in our cities.

IBT
Mongolia requests an audience. They are rebuffed.
Spain completes Leonardo's in Barcelona.

Rome - Medieval Infantry -> Longbow
Veii - Musketman -> Musketman
Antium - Musketman -> Cathedral
Cumae - University -> Cathedral
Neapolis - Worker -> Musketman

(2) 820AD
Take out an American settler/pikeman pair.
The bombardment of Houston is notably unsuccessful, as all trebuchets miss. I bring another couple of trebuchets in to try again. Looks like walls were rushed there last turn.

IBT
One attack on a yellowlined Medieval Infantry, which we win.

(3) 830AD
Forget about Houston for now, that's going to be a tough nut to crack. I send the troops there towards the last Dutch city.
Science to 10% to stop Veii from rioting. Change it's build to a Cathedral.

IBT
Yawn.

(4) 840AD
Troop repositioning.

(5) 850AD
Repel a mongol landing of one veteran Medieval Infantry, one regular longbow and a conscript Medieval Infantry. Hire entertainer in Veii and move luxuries to zero.

IBT
Mongols land a longbow next to Cumae.
Hurry Cathedral in Veii.

Veii - Cathedral -> Musketman
Neapolis - Musketman -> Longbow

(6) 860AD
More troop repositioning.

IBT
Our Mongol friends land three Keshiks next to Cumae.

(7) 870AD
The keshiks are killed off with no losses on our side.

IBT
A mongol settler pair that I missed settles near Antium. We have a Medieval Infantry next to it though.
Spain lands a knight and an ancient cavalry next to Veii.

Rome - Longbow -> Longbow

(8) 880AD
Kill one spearman in the new Mongol city, and there's another one underneath.
Utrect is finally razed and the Dutch are removed from the game.
Our troops cannot reach the Spanish Knight and Ancient Cavalry, but I am able to reinforce Veii.

IBT
The Mongols build Copernicus in Tabriz.
We get a palace expansion.
The spanish attack Veii, but our Musket there causes both units to retreat. The Spanish also land four units next to Rome.

Neapolis - Longbow -> Longbow.

(9) 890AD
Rome is in some trouble, as there are only troops available to kill off the Ancient Cavalry. There's still a MDI, longbow and pike there.
Damn Mongols are rushing spearmen in Tsontsengel as fast as I can kill the buggers.

IBT
Rome is in some deep do-do, as the Mongols add three longbows and a MDI to the troops there.

(10) 900AD
There is little I can do with Rome, except to pull the two muskets from Veii.
I get a leader attacking a redlined American MDI. Octavian runs back towards our cities. I recommend rushing the cathedral in Antium.

And the Save File - 900AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/BZ8_900AD.zip)

I think Rome will survive is we get units from other cities. Move 2 defenders in Antium toward rome so they can get there in one turn, and move in one or more units from Veii.

We have a lreader. I would NOT use it up right away. Lets go for killing 3 cities in one round. Tosontengel, and the two japanese ones perhaps? A second army would be a huge boost for us, it is worth the time and effort (and also fun to try to set up).

Also remember that armies pillage cost no movement. You should pillage as you go across american lands.

Arizona_Steve -----> Just Played
Mark1031 ----> Up
betazed -----> On Deck
Greebley
jb1964

I am hoping Rome will survive otherwise we will suffer a huge setback.

I think it will survive if we move the units into it. If we move all the units out of Veii, then they may switch to go after that town giving us longer to attack it.

I Would kill the ancient cav with the MDI which I don't think has moved yet.

got it. played 5 turns. Rome survives easily but it is getting more difficult. Starting to get Knights and crusaders landings.

Do we have enough slaves and units to occupy all of our coastal boarder squares?

Do we have enough slaves and units to occupy all of our coastal boarder squares?

even if we do I would not like to use that strategy. It looks cheap and not honorable.

Back out and evade a fight. A Sith would never do so! ;)

I am cheap and dishonorable. :eek: :)

However, I agree it would be bad form. :dubious:

A group of us tried that in one game, but it meant we died from 1000 cuts rather than a clean kill.

Here is a link to the post where we try that strategy (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=1632803&postcount=170)

[Edit: Here is the full game:
HAndy01 - AWE with Babylon (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=78712)

The problem is the maintanance for all the units on the shore slows research. I think one is better off with building catapults, until the units get extreme.

Using forgein workers might possibly work but using workers to block the coast is considered an exploit by many because the AI isn't smart enough to know it can land anyway.

Preturn: Move 2 Veii Pikes into Rome. Move MI from Antium. Switch Cathedrals to Banks.

910: We survive attack on Rome loose 1 musket/1Pike. They loose 2 LB and an AC. Kill off the remaining troops. Destroy Mongol city on our territory (forgot the name). Take Tokyo no losses. Take Kagoshima lose 1 MI. Japan still alive with 1 city on an Island somewhere.

IBT lose MI and LB in the open. Damn

920: Just Pillaging in America. Resting troops

IBT lose stack of workers. Damn, got to get better cover out in the open areas with the roads I can’t see things coming.

930: OK, we don’t have enough troops to continue advancing and we have to shore up defenses at home. So go to purely defensive action. Plan: Accumulate troops, get road to Buffalo take Buffalo and set up horse colony.

940: MI takes LB and we get a leader who single handedly builds Bank in Veii.

950: Knight and Crusader land near Cumae. Bombard and take out with no losses.

960: Kill some American LBs and settler MI pair. Do some roading. Astronomy comes in and start Chem.

970-1000: Kill troops, Banks come in Antium and Cumae. Move forces toward Buffalo. Fight off a few landings. Not much.

Summary: We have troops and workers near Buffalo ready to complete road through forest. We can then take Buffalo and set up a horse colony in the next couple of turns.

screen shot attached

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031 -----> Just Played
betazed ----> Up
Greebley -----> On Deck
jb1964

I will try and set up the horse colony. Will play tonight.

Nice set. By my turn I can grab the wine. I'm thirsty.

So the Dutch are dead. The Japanese are on island life-support. The Americans are being eaten from the inside out. Then we have the Mongols and ??.

I guess while the Americans are being worked over we should start thinking about the when, what and where of landng troops on Mongol soil.

If we continue to go toward Mil Trad, we may have cavalry about the same time as we are ready for the mongols. It would be nice to get an army over to the Mongol isle, but would have to disband our current one or get to Galleons. I am inclined to go for the Cav army as soon as we get cav.

This all assumes we can successfully fight the Americans first, which seems doable.

[Edit: I would spare a pike/musket to cover the larger worker stacks to avoid random losses if you can. Just dedicate a unit to just that. The current worker stack in the pic and your previous mention, it sounds like this would be worthwhile. ]

IBT: LB attacks pike fortified on mountain and kills it. This is the beginning of the worst RNG luck that I have had for some time. In these 10 turns the AI won every fight it initiated no matter what the odds. :(

A knight, an ancient cav and a keshik lands nears Rome. Forces move towards American city to secure horse.

Turn 1 : All trebuchets miss. :( 2 on the knight and 6 on the american city. Need 6 uuits to take out the 3 that landed near Rome because all of them retreat on being red lined and has to be chased down. Get a leader though. Rush Uni is the last city that did not have Uni.

Turn 2: Troops heal.

Turn 3: Destroy American horse city. One regular pike takes down a LB and a MDI. Third MDI takes down the pike. and this after all trebuchets miss. Now the problem is I have only two MDI and some trebuchets left to hold on to the colony. :(

Turn 4: Establish colony. start on knights

Turn 5: Spain lands 5 knights and 1 ancient cav near Veii. :eek: Two keshiks land near Antium. This is disaster. We have only 2 MDI and one pike in Veii. I upgrade the pike to musket in both Veii and Antium. Attack each of the units with whatever I got. which is not much. Then offer worker baits for the knights. press spacebar and pray.

IBT: Sure enough, three knights go for workers. One knight attacks a LB reaching towards Veii and the other two take down two units in Veii. Once again 100% victory for the AI. But we manage to hang on by the skin of our teeth.

Turn 6: America builds a city near our colony and we loose our horse again. :( And I do not have troops to take down the city. I have to attack to pikes and muskets to take down the spanish tropps. barely manage it. If spain lands similar amount of troops next turn we are goner since we have nothing to protect our cities.

Turn 7: Chemistry comes in. We start mettalurgy going to MT. We have one turn as a breather.

Turn 8: army heads back towards horse colony. imho, we should stop pillaging america and secure the horse with the army. without knights we will, not may, but will lose our core cities sooner rather than later. So army secures horse and we hang on till MT with knights and when MT comes in we get cavs army can start pillaging again.

Turn 9: I generate another leader. He is fortified. in Rome now. do not know what to do with him. Spain lands crusaded and musket combo on a mountain neir veii.

IBT: Crusader attacks MDI and win of course without losing a hp.

Turn 10: Kill off crusader losing a LB in the process.


I leave the next player in a somewhat precarious position. Sorry about that. I did the best I could do. You should have two knights the next turn. Secure the horse with the army and just try to hang on. Maybe you will have better luck than me.

Arizona_Steve
Mark1031
betazed -----> Just played and almost had a heart attack
Greebley ----> Up
jb1964 -----> On Deck (may have to be skipped since he will be out)

Greebley, post by midnight EST and I'll probably be able to play my turns out. I'll be able to lurk now and agian while on the road but I wont be able to play until the 19th.

Ok, I may be able to do that. Will try at least. I got it.

Betazed, I don't seem to be able to download the save. It keeps ending up as 1 kb despite the claim that it is 154 kb as an attachment.

Can you either try reattaching or using the uploads for it?

JB, are you able to get the save to work?

[Edit: It seems something is up with downloads in general.
I managed to grab it successfully. Either the problem was fixed or it is an erratic problem.

I will start playing Now.

Preturn: Things look momentarily ok other than the lack of horses. I think I will use the leader for a knight or Cav army once we get our horses back

IBT: The one Keshik on the island moves up. No landings

1110 AD: Thing are momentarily quiet. I try to destroy the horse town but we only knock 1 hp off the pike( 2 left). I attack with one of the MDI, but lose. Army moves as suggested by Betazed.

I think it might be worth trying for the American city with the Great Wall if we can to remove those pesky walls. Something to think about in the future.

Hmm... If I build a 2 unit knight army now, I can get to the horse town 4 turns faster than our current one. I think we want to build knights so I am going to do it. Err... except I moved the army.... next turn I will - in the mean time the horses move up.

IBT: A single MDI is dropped off.

1120 AD: Ok we now have an 8 hp knight army which moves out
MDI vs MDI after the Trebuchets miss is killed and the American MDI promotes(2hp). Longbow kills the MDI

IBT: Our MDI guarding the stack of cats and workers fortunately survives a longbow attack.
Rome built a worker for non-growin