Race Wars 1: Nordic Sagas [Archive] - Civilization Fanatics' Forums

Bede

May 27, 2004, 05:40 PM

Our little empire
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1_Nordic1.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1_Nordic2.jpg

3000BC
We have 2 other nations on our little island...expansionist America and religious Egypt. So America has a scout running around somewhere. Decide to trade him Ceremonial Burial before he meets Egypt and buys it from her. Net 24g in the deal. It's good to see science at 100%. We may win the race to Writing and we may not, but even if we don't we will have enough invested in it to get it cheap.

America's scout zips in and out of the fog and is shadowed by the Egyptian warrior.

1-2950
Curragh exploring
2-2900
Shift citizens around to get granary in 3, growth in 5. ensuring a full food store when the city grows and delaying the increase in lux tax.
3-2850
Map
4-2800
America founds New York on east coast
5-2750
Finish granary and start curragh as I want a look across the strait.
Egypt has learned pottery.
6-2710
Sail around island in east. Raise lux to 10%
7-2670
Egypt has learned Warrior Code.
8-2630
Sailing and growing
Send citizens fishing as it raises beaker output by two but doesn't cut growth or slow curragh build.
9-2590
Finish curragh and start worker.
10-2550
Second curragh reaches other side of strait.

We need more map data before we can determine settlement locations. I would recommend using a 3-4 spacing, preserve the one turn unit move from town center to town center. The worker a-building can explore while making roads to the next city site, which should probably be coastal as the gold advantage to seafaring civs is a big one. I would also plan cities so that border expansion is driven by settlement, not culture. It is cheaper in the long run and produces more gpt during the critical early stages of growth. A sequence of worker/settler in the capitol should work very nicely. The next two towns should build barracks first and produce miltary only. Expansionist America should do a good job of managing barbarians on the island and keeping them out of our face but it is always nice to have archers to go barb hunting. Don't build spears. Two warriors take as much time and make better barbarian defenders then one spear. Judging from the state of the other treasuries they are running 100% science as they didn't grow at all during this set. Once we reach our research goal (I'm thinking currency which should be worth all the Ancient Age technologies if we know enough nations by then)) it might pay us to turn off research completely. Just keep in touch with the other guys and be open to any trading opportunities.

The known world

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1_Nordic9.jpg

Our little corner of it
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1_Nordic10.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1_Nordic11.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1_Nordic12.jpg

Roster check
Oblivion-made a great start
Bede-built on that foundation
alerum-up
SK-on deck
JB
SmellinCoffee

jb1964

May 27, 2004, 07:22 PM

Nice start. Anyone worried that our capitol is going to get sacked?

Also, nice Advisor mods. I think I'll keep these screenshots away from my wife. :)

Bede

May 27, 2004, 08:39 PM

On sacking, nope. The Americans have scouts running around picking off goody-huts and barb camps as do the Egyptians. As I don't think we are going for an early rush on the neighbors, it's pretty safe to build settlers and workers and such in the capitol. At this point in the game I wouldn't have any military in the capitol anyway, they would be out exploring. The only use for military is MP duty and with the coastal gold bonus and the worker/settler churn entertainment taxes shouldn't be a problem.

alerum68

May 27, 2004, 09:51 PM

Everythings looking good.;) I got the save, and will play it tonight or tommorow. One thing is I don't aggree with currency being our research path. We're already started on the Philosphy path. I say we keep max reasearch on that and I think we'll be the first to reach it. We may need to keep Writing to do that though. I think it'll be a very good draw for techs, as well as giving us the free tech when we are the first. Map Making anyone? With Phil and MM we'll have a solid trading platform... as for the adviors mod... That's part of the reason that I said I'd be looking forward to Bede's post.;0

Bede

May 27, 2004, 10:10 PM

alerum68

May 27, 2004, 10:15 PM

Either currency or philosophy are good choices. The difference being that Currency is worth twice philosophy and therefore makes even better trade bait...

hummm... if we get philo, can we Queue up Currency to become our free tech? They let you go to the tech tree and choose, but do we have everything required to learn Currency? That may be a better choice, if it's possible.

EDIT: Bede, Where's the save?

Bede

May 27, 2004, 11:17 PM

We need Math for Currency.

And I forgot to attach the save....:blush:

alerum68

May 29, 2004, 09:14 AM

Turn-log will be coming tonight. Forgot I had a graduation ceremony to go to last night.

alerum68

May 29, 2004, 07:57 PM

Preturn (2550BC)
Pulling in writing in 10 turns, lossing 1gpt. The pop of Trondheim is the only thing that's stopping us from getting it in 9 turns lossing 1gpt. Even shaving off that 1 point is not worth hurting growth, so leave it as it is. Everything checks out ok. We're up WC on America. Par with Egypt.

IBT
Pliny's Happiest Nations report comes up. Our rivals are:
Celts
Aztecs
Arabs
Americans
Japanese
Carthaginians
Egyptians
and of course we're at the bottom of the pile.

Turn 1 (2510BC)
Explore with curraghs. Northern Curragh finds a yellow Border. Think it's Egypt. At least we're not going to be on the same island as the Celts and Aztecs. Bloody war there.

IBT
Trondheim worker == > Settler. It looks like the build cycle is going to be warrior, worker, settler... It's a bit messy, but it works that way. If someone can find a better way of MMing it, to get a better/quicker cycle that would be great. It's a 10 turn warrior/worker/settler cycle now. We could slip it down to an 8 turn worker/settler factory, but there's a chance we may loose population if we're not careful.

Turn 2 (2470BC)
Send worker south to join his fellow on making that mine for the BG.
Exploring with northern curragh shows more yellow border, but no cities or units. No diplo contacts pop up so it's probably just Egypt.
America doesn't have WC up there anymore, but they had no gold last turn, so they must have traded someone tech for tech on a tech we already had.

IBT
zzz

Turn 3 (2390BC)
Workers finish mine. Send both of them se to mine last BG.
Western Curragh shows us that the land to our west is a narrow isthmus. Not good for settling. Eastern Curragh shows an sea route heading further east. I think I'll take it next turn.

IBT
zzz

Turn 4 (2350BC)
Trondheim grows and lux goes up to 30, and we have to drop sci down to 70. Loose a turn on writing.
Workers build mine on last BG.
Eastern Curragh makes the leap across the ocean and enters coastal space.

IBT
zzzz

Turn 5 (2310BC)
Ouch. The country to the east of ours has a completely mountianous coast. I'd not want to defend that beachhead.
MM Trondheim to get growth and settler on the same turn.

IBT
zzz
Turn 6 (2270 BC)
What a waste of time... The western curragh finishes the circut he was started on only to discover they we have a HUGE Island ocean. This is a strange looking world. I don't think we'll be able to really see how strange it until the world is completely exposed to us.... Interesting war plans though.;)
MM Trondheim so one citizen is made an entertainer, luxury is dropped to 10%, and sci is raised to 90%, shaving a turn off writing.

IBT
Trondheim Settler ==> Warrior

Turn 7 (2230BC)
Worker finish mine and start to road. Makes no sense for a second worker to start on a 3-turn road, so I send second worker east.
Taking Bede's advice I start to make a very TIGHT build of 4 spaces. I can't bring myself to do the 1-turn move spacing just because I don't see much warfare with America and Egypt as our neighbors, and not very close either. It's C3C so RCP won't matter so we can tighten up later.
Curraghs explore some more
Lux goes back up to 20, which means we lost that turn of writing. Oh well, it's good to stay in practice.;)
Egypt gains The Wheel. Cleo can make her UU now.

IBT
zzz

Turn 8 (2190BC)
Second worker starts road.

IBT
Trondheim warrior ==> Worker

Turn 9 (2110BC)
Send warrior out exploring for prime land.
Settler lands on spot where I'll settle next turn.
Worker finishes road. Send him east.
Bergen founded 4se of capitol. Is nestled between 4 BGs. Set to Barracks due in 10. Is borrowing the mined BG from Tondheim. Next leader will have to make sure to switch it back and forth.
MM Trondheim so Writing will come in next turn with us getting a net gain of +5. All that MMing and it still took 10 turns to get writting! Maybe we should let the govern run the game like back in our Chieftian days.;)

IBT
Writing Comes in. 13 turns til Philosophy, lossing 1gpt. It's a good shot IMHO.
Trondheim Worker ==> Settler. Again, this will have to be watched closely.

Turn 10
After I reset the entertainer to a citizen, I have to redo luxury. Adds a few turns to Phil bringing it to 16 turns.
Exploring turns up nothing interesting.
Cleo's up the wheel on us, but I don't think we should trade writing til the end of the next leaders turns to keep our Philo chances alive. If one of the civs we know learns it, then sell it to the other, but not until then.

Notes:
Trondheim needs to be handle a very special way to maintain the build cycle. You have to put the citizen on the forest after the settler is built and the pop goes back to 5. Set to warrior. Warrior will take 2 turns, and growth will take 4. After warrior builds, set to worker. This will build a worker, and bring pop back to 5. Then you'll have to play to get the settler out. It's messy, but it worked. We can use that later if we want ot push out a warrior/worker and never shrink in pop.

These cities are going to be hard to MM I think. We'll have to share alot, and almost every turn will need to be interchanged between each other.

DO NOT trade writing, no matter how tempting it is! Wait until we're at least half way through philo, if not further, before we trade. The whole point is being the first to philo.

Feels like we're starting off slow but we're about even with the AI. Clean has a third city, while we just build our second, and America has had a second since my 10 turns.

Have fun!:)

Here's the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1_2070BC.zip).

Screenshot in next post, as always.;)

alerum68

May 29, 2004, 08:02 PM

Here's our Homeland.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW_2070BC.JPG

Strange land formations going on here... Very strange!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1_STRANGE_LAND.JPG

Oblivion
Bede
Alerum
SK <== Skipped due to Vacation
JB <== Up
SmellinCoffee <== On Deck

-0blivion-

May 30, 2004, 03:09 AM

Good turns, but *ouch* Bergen not on the coast :confused:

The seafaring benefit is useless except for extra ship movement if our cities are not on the coast. The extra commerce can be really good.

alerum68

May 30, 2004, 09:53 AM

It sure can Oblivion, but we need shields at this point as well. We had access to more tiles this way, and until we're stable enough, shields are more important then gold, especially since we won't use most coastal squares until later in the game.

Bede

May 30, 2004, 10:00 AM

it is really a horse apiece here.

At this stage of the game every extra gold piece can fund the science budget immediately; the productive grasslands shave a turn or two off the military camp.

I might have put the second city on the fishing coast since we went with the looser spacing.

alerum68

May 30, 2004, 10:02 AM

Alright, to help ensure this doesn't happen again, does someone want to throw a dot map together? I think we explored enough land that we can throw at least a first ring dotmap up.

alerum68

May 31, 2004, 09:57 AM

JB is up. I'm going to PM him and see if whats going on... SC, will you be able to play if JB can't?

jb1964

Jun 01, 2004, 08:36 AM

I'll download when I get home from work tonight. I should be able to play and post before morning.

Consider this an "I got it".

alerum68

Jun 01, 2004, 09:34 AM

Glad to see you could make it.;) Have fun.

jb1964

Jun 01, 2004, 01:24 PM

I would realy appreciate comment on city placement before I dig into my 10 turns this evening. I'll probably start in on this ~10:30pm EST.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/dot_vikes1.jpg

Blue - On the river
Pink - On the coast (Shouldn't be our next city :) )
Lt. Green - On the Coast (I would for for this location next.)
Yellow - Coast/river nearing the tundra.
White - Filling in the gaps, could move out NE one space

Bede

Jun 01, 2004, 06:22 PM

Consider movong light green to coast SE of Bergen for the fish. Otherwise looks good.

jb1964

Jun 01, 2004, 10:46 PM

Preflight: All looks good on the map. At home the wife is pissed at me. Unrelated to gaming.

Turn 1: Scouting and building roads

IBT: Volcano in American territory went active. Lucky for them.

Turn 2: Going to send settler due east to settle on river so I build roads in that direction. Our warrior scouting to the south. Ventured the curragh out into sea and found a passage to next island over.

IBT: We grow to size 6 in Trondheim

Turn 3: Hire a taxman in Trondheim for a turn before the settler pops.

IBT: Settler pops. MM Trondheim to get growth and warrior in two.
Volcano spews on the Americans. I weep for them.

Turn 4: Move settler into position. Workers finish road and mine for Bergen and move on to do the same for next settlement.

IBT: Trondheim, warrior -> worker

Turn 5: 1790 BC, Copenhagen founded and set to build a barracks. Workers connect bonus grass. Warrior headed north to explore and looking for luxuries. Lux tax still at 20%. Both Cleo and Abe are willing to trade for writing but I decline.

IBT: Bergen barracks -> warrior (needed from MP duty to lower Lux tax)

Turn 6: 1750 BC, We meet the Celts and trade them Alphabet for Mysticism and 10g. They’re up on us Wheel and we have writing and are 6 from Philosophy.

IBT: Zzzz

Turn 7: 1725 BC, We find the Celtic boarders. I’m sending our southern warrior on a quest for the goody hut near the Americans.

IBT: Zzzzz

Turn 8: 1700 BC, Nothing much

IBT: Bergen warrior -> granary

Turn 9: 1675 BC, Woohoo, we have ivory to our north. Philosophy in 3 so I’m going to check trade opportunities. Warrior headed to Trondheim.
Hmmm, we have spices and gems on our continent to the far north and now I notice a red boarder. Our track of land is looking crowded.
I get Iron Working for writing and 8 gold. America only has gold to offer and I’m tempted to empty Abe’s coffers before someone else does. Wheel is available from Cleo with a 6g kicker but I think I’ll see how it looks next turn.
MM Trondheim to get settler and growth in 1.
No iron close to us. Closest is near the Americans.

IBT: Trondheim settler -> warrior

Turn 10: 1650 BC, Our settler can head north towards the ivory or to the east towards the Americans and settle just below the three bonus grass, on a river and on the coast. I’ll let the team make the call and not send him on his way just yet. I’m voting for the bonus grass/river/coastal location.
With warrior in Trondheim I can set Lux to zero and push research to 90% giving us Philosophy in 2. The curraghs continue to explore as well as our warriors.

Le Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1_1650BC.zip)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Vikes1625.jpg

Bede

Jun 01, 2004, 10:49 PM

SOunds good, jb.

But.. where's the save?

alerum68

Jun 01, 2004, 10:58 PM

Nice turns JB. ;) Did ya happen to get any screen shots of the new land? I don't know where you went with the first city, but I'd vote to take as much land from the americans as quickly as possible, so I'd go with the the BG/river site, and grab the ivory with the next one.

Edit: There's both save a screenshot! Looks like we got a nice choke city to work with there.
I'd settle the next to cities stratigically here. The site we were talking about, as well as on the hill 3ne of that site. We'll cut the Americans off, and we'll be able to take the north at our leisure, and since we're only pushing a settler out (I think we don't need to use the warrior/worker combo, it slows us to much) every 6 turns, we'll need that extra time.

jb1964

Jun 01, 2004, 11:00 PM

Man, you're fast!

Save and pics attached.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/vikes2.jpg

Bede

Jun 01, 2004, 11:16 PM

alerum68

Jun 01, 2004, 11:19 PM

A small quibble:
Bergen should be building military only. Archers once we garrison the other two towns with warrior MP's. Archers are more valuable to the Vikings than the warrior/sword upgrade path. Put the granary in Copenhagen.

I aggree completely. Especially if we can pull leo's (prays) We'll be able to upgrade all those archers to zerks very cheaply... speaking of Leo's, any idea when we should start planning a prebuild for that? I think it'll be very important if we want to afford our 'zerk army.

jb1964

Jun 02, 2004, 04:32 PM

First time I have ever played Vikes and only my 3rd C3C game. I kept reading about Zerks but never looked into them. Nice unit.

OK, go for the white dot and then plant the next city on the hill (3NE). Good plan to cut off the Americans. We can then settle the plains and claim the ivory. Anyone interested in SoZ?

BTW, I got IW from the Celts. After reading about the Gallic Warrior I now know why they made a dash for this tech.

alerum68

Jun 02, 2004, 07:26 PM

I don't know about SoZ... unless we're crowded in, and needed to expand, I think building any unit making wonder, (besides the Mil Academy) is somewhat of a waste of shields... but claiming those ivory would be so very nice.;)

As for Zerks... they are an extremely powerful UU. I think even more powerful then the Immortal... (gasp) Did he say that?! Yes I did! And an archpeliego map there is no question about it... the naval attack ablity of the zerk makes it the only UU to have.... Of course, I'm from Nordic blood, and that may be clouding my judgment on Odinist who go Berzerk.;)

Bede

Jun 02, 2004, 10:23 PM

Couple of points on SoZ:
It is a 4cpt producer as well as a unit machine. It is the earliest available cultural wonder and is very cheap (circa 200 shields IIRC). Those AC's come in handy as MP and as zone defenders, and properly supported with artillery can kill tanks and Modern Armor. Looked at another way for 200 shields you get 70 shields worth of production every five turns while building something else. I put together an OCC 20K cultural on Emperor starting with the SoZ and my city lacked iron, saltpeter and rubber and was surrounded by militaristic/scientific/industrious nations with a penchant for warfare.

Net net, if I were going to build an AA wonder it would be the SoZ.

alerum68

Jun 02, 2004, 11:20 PM

I could see the SoZ being a useful wonder on a Pangea map, where you don't have Iron, but we do have Iron, aren't on a pangea and aren't going to be hurting for units that are powerful enough to build.

Also, the SoZ will pump out AC for us... and every 3 turns I believe... all I see that doing is building AC units which will reduce our unit support total. If I had to choose between an archer or a AC with our civ I'd go with the archer.

As for CPT, that would be a reason to go for it, but the unit support cost will negate that, unless we were planning on going for a culture win, but I don't see the Nordic path being one of culuture instead of iron and fire. In fact, I don't see any AA wonders that would be very good for us to build in this game.

I'm willing to listen if the team things it's worth it, but I can't see the benifits for us for this game.

-0blivion-

Jun 03, 2004, 03:08 AM

Just a note on the archer upgrade to zerks. It is 150 gold without leos. 75 if we get leos, still not that cheap and we may not get leos.

alerum68

Jun 03, 2004, 03:57 AM

That's why we should start a prebuild... 75 gold isn't to bad, but the whole point of the SG was to use Civ traits, including the UU... it may be expensive, but it has to be done.

SpikeIt

Jun 03, 2004, 08:05 AM

<lurker off> I thought AC's and Crusaders didn't require unit support. Free units without support... not too shabby. :D <lurker on>

alerum68

Jun 03, 2004, 01:11 PM

I thought the same thing... I believe it was the DGiT game when I finished clearing off our contient that I discovered it was different.

jb1964

Jun 04, 2004, 01:34 PM

I did a little searching and an AC is free from the SoZ. It is not free of maintenance costs and it does count just like any other unit.

alerum68

Jun 04, 2004, 04:47 PM

SC hasn't posted an I got it, and I even gave him a bit more time. We're going to have to skip him again I'm afraid.

Current Roster:
Oblivion <== Up
Bede <== On Deck
Alerum <== Getting Ready
SK
JB
SmellinCoffee

SC, I'm to consider you on autoskip until you're able to come back full time. Just let me know whats up.

alerum68

Jun 05, 2004, 10:40 PM

Hey, are you guys still around? Seems that Oblivion, SC, and SK are MIA in not only this game, but all their games. If Oblivion isn't around, are you willing to take up the reigns again Bede, or would you prefer to wait a bit?

Bede

Jun 06, 2004, 06:15 AM

Got it.

Post plan tonight, play tomorrow.

SolarKnight

Jun 06, 2004, 08:18 AM

CHecking in again, sorry guys, Ill take the game after bede if that is agreeable?

SolarKnight

alerum68

Jun 06, 2004, 09:50 AM

Take SGOTM SK... I'll get this one after Bede, and you're after me in the natural turn order... It's a 24/72 in both games, so you'll thank me for it later.:p

Bede

Jun 06, 2004, 06:16 PM

Played today...

Results in next post.

Bede

Jun 06, 2004, 06:30 PM

0-1650BC
Send settler with warrior escort east to river.
Swap citizen assignments around so Bergen gets 5spt net and Trondheim goes on high carb diet. Set build at Trondheim to settler. Raise lux tax to 10% to avoid riot at Trondheim.

Sail west galley north then will cross strait and head south again along visible coastline.

Abe has been busy popping huts for gold as he has 50g in his treasury. Relieve him of it for Mysticism

1-1625
Settler trekking and galleys sailing. Curragh in east renamed SS Ostwind. Warriors exploring; warrior south of Abes's badlands spots a village and an iron mountain.

Swap citizen assignments at Trondheim and Copenhagen to boost population growth at Copenhagen but not change growth curve at Trondheim.

As we know the Celts exclusively the brokering opportunities are going to be from the Celts first, then to Egypt and America. At the moment the Celts don't have anything to broker across as both they and Egypt know how to put rims on spokes and America is broke.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1_001.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1_002.jpg

Cleopatra pays a courtesy call...wanting Iron Working for Wheels. Table it for now. She may pick it up from Abe...though. I really don't want Cleopatra to have swords to go with her chariots so offer her Writing instead and get 6g in the deal which is still a bad deal, but probably the best we will do as our alternative is a third rank tech for a first rank if we do Wheels for Philosophy from Brennus

We learn Philosophy and learn Map Making as well. Set research to Mathematics @10% assuming that Cleopatra will research Polytheism for us. We hold monoplies on Philosophy and Map Making which will probably get us Polythesm or Horseback Riding, though I don't see any horses, yet.

2-1600
Studying the map reveals horses on the peninsula west of Trondheim.

3-1575
Warrior garrisons Trondheim as it grows so no increase in lux tax.

4-1550
Settler and warrior from Trondheim head east.

Meet the Arabs in the far northwest. Abu is poor.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1_003.jpg

And the Aztecs right next to the Arabs. He is much richer so sell him Mysticism for 60g as he would get it from the Arabs anyway.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1_004.jpg

As we now have lots of cash turn up the heat in the shaman's tent to spend 48g to get Mathematics in 16.

5-1525
Build Reykjavik on coast.

The Celts start the Oracle.

6-1500
Exploring and trekking

7-1475
Found Oslo in the gap facing America

8-1450
Settler starts trek from Trondheim to Ivory Coast

Celts start Pyramids after finishing the Oracle in 3 turns!!! He pulled an SGL with Horseback Riding.

9-1425

Exploring and trekking.

10-1400
Cleopatra beat us to Mathematics, and she offers Mathematics and 90g for Philosophy. Our monopoly on Philosophy is worth ~150g, Her monopoly on Math is worth ~200. We have invested ~30g so far in Math so we gain ~110g in the deal.

Check in with everybody else first

Now it gets really interesting. Abu has Polytheism and won't trade it for anything we currently have though he might be tempted by Horseback Riding which Brennus has. Aztecs have 25g which I am sure they will trade for Writing. Brennus will offer Horseback Riding (worth ~120G) plus 80g for Map Making or even better, Math. Map Making is worth too much but we can pick up another 80g plus a technology for our investments in Philosophy and Math. If Abu bites on HBR for Polytheism in addition to already devalued Iron Working and Writing plus throw in some cash we will get a tech worth ~300g at monopoly for nothing.

So I am going to proceed with the horse trading despite the violation of protocol, but the opportunity to pick up techs and cash to this extent is just too tempting.

Start by doing the deal for Math with Cleo, then sell Alphabet to Abu for 10g. Then go back to Brennus for HBR and his 80g for Math. Then sell Montezuma Writing for 25g as he will get it from Abu when I trade Writing to Abu. And buy Polytheism from Abu for Writing, HBR and Mathematics.

Net postion after all the horse trading:
Cleo: 0g and we are up Map Making, HBR and Poly
Brennus: 0g and we are up Philo, Mapmaking and Poly
Monte: 0g and we are Math, Philosophy, Maps, HBR, and Poly
Abu: 0g and we are up Iron, Philosophy and Math
Abe: 0g and we are up Writing, Math. HBR and Poly

We pick up three required techs and everybody's gold.

After Action Report:
Treasury 353g
Science: Currency at 100% net cost 78g (26 turns at -3)
Military: 8 warriors, two on duty in Trondheim, one each in Reykjavik and Oslo, others scouting or exploring.
Labor force: 4 workers. 2 a-building in Oslo and Reykjavik. Join the two now building to the worker mining at Copenhagen then head them north from the easternmost wines to irrigate the plains on the eastern edge of the forest towards the new town.
Settlers: 1 trekking north to Ivory Coast and 1 due in Trondheim in 10.

Settler heading north should settle for maximum coast, then next settler should head north to pull our borders towards the Ivory. We don't need to bring it on line yet as nobody has any yet.

Tronheim produced two settlers in ten turns at pop 4-6. If it grows to base 5 and oscillates from 5-7 I think it can do settlers in 4. Just don't let it grow past 7 for more than the IT. Micromanagement math is not my best so I'd appreciate it if somebody would verify that for me.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1_005jpg.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1_006.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1_007.jpg

alerum68

Jun 06, 2004, 09:10 PM

Bede I have a question...

10-1400
Cleopatra beat us to Mathematics, and she offers Mathematics and 90g for Philosophy. Our monopoly on Philosophy is worth ~150g, Her monopoly on Math is worth ~200. We have invested ~30g so far in Math so we gain ~110g in the deal.

How do you know how much a techs value in gold is again? And don't worry about the Tech trade at the end... I would probably have been able to follow it, but don't know if I would have gotten as good as deals as you did... no matter, I'm not mad about the trades, since it all turned out good.;)

I'll take a look at the factory and see if we can squeze the other turn out with growth... I think this spot should be able to be a 4-turn factory.

Anyway, this is my got it. I should be able to play tommorow evening. Any discussion before I take the save? It seems pretty straight-foward what needs to be done.

Bede

Jun 06, 2004, 09:21 PM

@alerum,

Handy little utility called TechCalc

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38631

Works for all versions of the game and gives you a pretty good idea of costs and values for all techs

alerum68

Jun 06, 2004, 09:38 PM

Thanks Bede! Also has a combat calc built in.... a VERY usefull utility I must say! I just have to remember to use it *BEFORE* I make the trade.:p

jb1964

Jun 07, 2004, 12:08 PM

FYI, I'll be on vacation from 6/12 to 6/19. If I get a save by Thursday I'll turn it around by Friday evening. If not, skip me.

Bede

Jun 07, 2004, 12:16 PM

@alerum,
Forgot to attach the file again!!!

So here it is.

alerum68

Jun 07, 2004, 05:02 PM

I don't remember you not posting saves in your other SGs... is it all the wine our capitol has that's making you forgetful?:p I'm picking it up now. Should have a post ready by this evening. Since no comments were given, I'll just play as seems best. With all those new techs, I wonder what I can build now.;)

alerum68

Jun 07, 2004, 05:38 PM

Guys just noticed something. We're on turn 64... somehow we gained 4 turns in the rotation. Would the team prefer I play 6 or 16 to rebalance us on the turn numbers?

alerum68

Jun 07, 2004, 06:57 PM

Turn 0 (1400BC)
We're researching Currency at -3gpt taking 24 turns. Will take 29 turns of research to break even, so keep it where it is. Full Science until we can't afford it I guess.
Looks like we founded Oslo just in time to prevent the Americans from entering our soon to be conquoured lands. Egypt is heading south quickly, and will want to try and bottle this contient up, then we can fill in the middle.
Check out the Diplo front... Thanks Bede, now we're up about 5 techs on most of the other civs... and you left them ALL BROKE!?! What am I supposed to do? Want to set up some embassies with America and Egypt but not sure if we'll need it. Also, I think we've prevented them from meeting each other by building the block as quickly as we did, so tech trading is ours.

Here's my goals this turnset. Get our capitol set up as a 4 turn factory, put at least 1 warrior in each city, and getting started on building Archers.

One thing... I was talking to Ision and he said the key to making it objective is speed... ie- the babs are the best at culture because they'll achieve a culture victory before anyone else, and so on. If we can, I want to make each turn set as clean as possible, with as little waiting or delaying in game progess as we can do. This doesn't mean playing 3 sets in a day, just making sure we're efficent with our turns.

Looks like a lot, but Bede left me nothing to do... not one citizen to MM. Was just filling up space there... so I hit enter, and this is what happens...

IBT
Egyptian warrior moves.
Bergen warrior > warrior
Celt start building The Pyramids.

I'm greeted with this Message

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1_Oracle.JPG
That one's worthless to us, lets see what everyone else cascades too.

Turn 1(1375BC)
3 Workers near Reykjavik move 1ne to mine the BG next turn.
Send warrior that just build in Bergen to Copenhagen. Copen' will grow next turn, and need the extra MP.
exploring warrior finds barb camp. Will take it out next turn.
Explore with our Curraghs... SS Nordwind, hum?;)

IBT
Notice that an American worker is caught between us and Egypt and figure it'll be hard to keep them from meeting, if they haven't already. I'm going to leave the barb hut alone in hopes that the american warrior will go for it and die before they met Egypt.

Arabs cascade from Oracle to Temple of Art.

Turn 3 (1350BC)
Explore with warriors. Notice the warrior I sent to Copenhagen wasn't really needed, since it would have been 1h/1c/1s... this way it's 1h/2c.
Trondheim grows to size 4. It's only going to give us +4 food. Being as we're in despotism, and irigating grassland is useless, then I can't see us getting a settler quicker then 5 turns, and to do that we have to MM it all the time. Our best bet is to make it a 6 turn warrior / settler factory. MM it to stop growth for 1 turn, and building a warrior to get our shields/food back on track for this.
Move warrior on Trondheim to Bergen just because we have one being build in Trondheim next turn, and we don't need it for MP... also Bergen is 2 turns away, so might as well do it now.
SS Ostwind explores.
SS Nordwind explores.
Seeing as we now have at least 1 MP in each city that's already built, I change Bergen from a 2 turn warrior factory to a 4 turn archer factory.

IBT
Lincoln tells our exploring warrior to leave. We aggree.
Trondheim warrior > settler.
Copenhagen archer > archer

Turn 4 (1325BC)
Send Archer from Copenhagen to Reykjavik. Figure that we'll be taking the fight to America first so should try and stack that way.
Don't think America will make it to Barb camp before Egypt does so take it out to get the 25 gold.
Move warrior in American lands 1 north, and end up with a birdseye view of Washington.
Still no trades.

IBT
We get an addition to our Palace! Our first one too. I lay down some Sod.

Turn 5 (1300BC)
worker starts mine 2se of Trondheim.
workers finish mine near Reykjavik and build road.
Was able to herd the Americans in... should prevent them from meeting Egypt for a while.
Found Birka on the coast 1sw of the Ivory. Crappy land... plains with not ariver in sight... but we have Ivory close by now.
Set build orders to warrior.
Move archer from Reykjavik to Oslo so it won't have to cross the river when we go to war.
Arabia has 73 gold, and are gaining techs quickly. I'm going to give them another 2-3 turns and sell them Philo. Want around 100 gold for it.

IBT
Get the Boot from America.
Bergen archer > archer
Reykjavik worker > worker
Nordwind runs into a barb galley. Fortify.

Turn 6 (1275BC)
MM Trondheim to get growth next turn and pull in another 3 shields. This should allow us to build and grow in 5 turns, but we may have to go 6.

IBT
We lost our Nordwind to the galley. Galley was redlined, and just didn't want ot die! We still have ostwind exploring the south.

Turn 7(1250BC)
Change Birka from warrior to Galley in 13.
Nope, Trondheim is a true 6 turn factory... not going to get any better no matter how we MM it.
I think *AMERICA* built a city on the island to the west of us. These blue borders just appeared!

Everything went pretty smoothly. We can get a settler in 5 turns in Trondheim, but it's messy and we're going to have to restart it at pop 3 about every 4 settlers I'm guessing... that or slow down settler production for a few turns like I had to do at the start here. We just have to keep an eye on it. I don't know of taking the wines over cows was better for a early food production stand point, but I think the war we can wage on America in the next 10 turns will help fix that... we can go to war quicker then 10 turns I'd imagine, but I want to allow them to get a few more cities up to pop 2... but it's going to be tight of allowing them to grow and having them hook up their iron for swordsman. Taking their lands will give us 2 more luxiries as well as Iron though. We have no choice in the matter, they're going to have to go first.

Current Roster:
Oblivion
Bede
Alerum
SK<== Up
JB<== On Deck
SmellinCoffee<== autoskip until he tells us differently.

Here's the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1_1250BC.SAV).

Bede

Jun 07, 2004, 08:37 PM

Nice.

America and Egypt already met. America has had at least one scout running around since the beginning, and at the very start of my first set an Egyptian warrior was heading east and an American scout heading north.

Also, the land to our west is another finger of the home lands which wraps to the west and south at Egypt.

Also, is there a harbor at Trondheim yet? That might give the extra +1 food you're lookng for.

We lack iron and horses as America has claimed them both-the iron west and the horses west. Makes the SoZ look a little more attractive, I think.

alerum68

Jun 08, 2004, 09:46 AM

Wow, only Bede's around to reply... maybe I should have taken the full 17 turns... SK, are you going to be able to play in the next couple of days?

jb1964

Jun 08, 2004, 10:34 AM

My vote's for you to extend the number of turns. If no reply from SK then I'll swap turns w/ him.

Good turns. I agree w/ Bede's comments and am still interested in building SoZ.

Any thoughts on taking on the American's in the not too distant future to relieve them of their iron?

Bede

Jun 08, 2004, 11:07 AM

@alerum,
Go ahead and play it out to even.

SolarKnight

Jun 08, 2004, 01:14 PM

I will be able to play as soon as I have played the 2 SGs i am up in

-0blivion-

Jun 08, 2004, 02:02 PM

Ok, my computer problems are fixed. I'm up whenever you want to slot me in. Thats for DGIT and SGOTM too Alerum.

alerum68

Jun 08, 2004, 03:21 PM

I'll play 10 more today, just to keep the progress going, and not mess with the turn order. Sk, will you be able to play your turns in the next 72 hours after my post?

alerum68

Jun 08, 2004, 04:38 PM

Turn 0 (1250BC)
ChangeTrondhiem from Settler to Harbor. Will stun growth if I have to, to prevent him from getting to size 7.
Reykjevik is off it's equal turns for worker/growth cycle, so have to switch him over to barracks. It has alot of good terrian and will be a good unit maker.

IBT
Some movement by americans in American lands... nothing much else.

Turn 1(1225BC)
Ost Wind explores.
Find a Barb camp near American homeland... they can reach our cities too, so decide I'll take them out next turn.
When Bergen grows in 10 turns, it will be able to make an archer every 2 turns. Wish I could speed up growth, but oh well. Now it takes 3 turns.
Only deal out there is Arabia's 73 gold for Republic. I take it now instead of having them research it in 4 turns.

IBT
Bergen Archer > archer
Copenhagen Archer > Worker

Turn 3 (1200BC)
Send both archers towards Oslo, due in 4 turns.
Warrior takes on barb camp. He wins, promotes, and gets the 25 gold.;)
MM Trondheim to get growth and harbor next turn, but pulling in an extra 2 gold.

IBT
Trondheim Harbor > Settler
Oslo worker > worker

Turn 4 (1175BC)
CRAP! While I was exploring, I made a mistake and went west instead of south and our curragh was left in the ocean.
Move workers near Reykjavik from their last roading job to a forest to chop it and get the barracks in Reykjavik quicker.
MM Trondheim to make it a 5 turn settler factory... albeit an odd one... I just hope I timed things right and growth doesn't happen to quickly.
Trade Arabia a worker for 109 gold. It's below market value and figure it a fair trade. Move him from Trondheim to start connecting the ivory.
MM Copenhagen to get growth and worker in 3 turns.

IBT
Exploring warrior is kicked out of Egypt.
Our Curragh survives the sea!

Turn 5 (1150BC)
Workers finish last mine that Trondheim needs, and starts heading towards Copenhagen.
Ostwind is sent to explore the north!

IBT
Egypt tells us to leave or declare war. We leave.
Notice that America has 2 settler pairs out there, but the only have Ice bergs to inhabit. War MUST come soon.
Egypt sends out a settler pair.
Bergen archer > archer

Turn 6 (1125BC)
Arabia has 70 gold... wonder what they spent the other 30 on so quickly...

IBT
Copenhagen worker > Archer
Chopped timed just right and Reykjavik builds a barracks. Set to Archer

Turn 7(1075BC)
Exploring and continue to try and connect Ivory.
Trondheim builds a settler next turn, and then we'll know if it's a 4 of 5 turn factory.

IBT
Trondheim Settler > settler. Alright, I'm getting 5 shields and 5 food out of this city, or else 4 food and 7 shields. It'll be cutting it close I think as a 5 turn factory, and the next leader HAS to watch it and let the team now how it reacts.
Bergen archer > archer
Americans and Egyptians start Pyramids.

Turn 8 (1050BC)
Explore a bit. Nothing major.
Egypt has 50 gold this turn... hum, wonder how.

IBT
Get the boot from Egypt
Copenhagen Archer > archer

Turn 9 (1025BC)
zzz

IBT
zzz
Turn 10 (1000BC)
Met Japan, but they don't have anything to offer. 0 gold, but a interesting tidbit... they went the same research path as us... pretty much. The only tech we're up on them is Polytheism.
Go to talk to Arabia and they have Map Making As well as being up a bit of gold... I think they met Japan a turn before us, and that's how everyone over there evened up a bit.
Still up at least 2 techs on everyone else, with them having no gold. We're at at parity with Arabia, and have alot more gold then they do. I wouldn't trade with them until you trade with Japan first.
MM is a 5 turn factory now, BUT it has to be MMed specially... after the settler builds, set it so growth is in 2, and settler comes out in 6. After 2 turns, and we get growth then switch the fish to the regular BG. This gives us both growth and settler in 3.
Turn up Luxury to make up for Trondheim's 2 unhappy citizens. Sending a warrior from oslo over in a chain, but the warrior won't make it in time, so you'll have to run lux at 10 for 1 turn.

Notes:
Turns are even again. That last turn I played was listed as turn 80. Should be right back on par now. Was weird taking over my own turns...

Bergen should be MMed next turn when it grows to try and get 10 shields pt. This will allow an archer every 2 turns, which means we'll have a nice little army for our zerks... you have to admit... having the Viks with no Iron around was the best possible bet...

Not sure where to send the settler, just know I want to settle him around the forest game...
Anyone want to put together a dotmap to finish up our lands?

Here's the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1_1000BC.SAV).

Bede

Jun 08, 2004, 05:23 PM

Nice job, alerum.

With the four core cities set up the way they are the next ones are space fillers and training camps so placement becomes a matter of resources or food. Given the nature of the Vikings te best thing to do is settle up both coasts, then fill in the plains later. Space 3 tiles apart, or no more than 4 and make sure borders close.

jb1964

Jun 09, 2004, 08:25 AM

Good job.

It would be interesting to play a solo game in increments and then take a day off and reevaluate your goals and position. Turn it into a one man SG and see if it improves your play. I think I have an experiment in the making.

I'll take a stab at a dot map when I get home from work but Bede’s description of a settlement plan sounds pretty good.

alerum68

Jun 09, 2004, 01:09 PM

Yeah, bede's plan should work perfectly. Just make sure that the less productive cities are 3-spaces apart for military movement. Inside the core, I think it's a bit to tight, but the outlying cities is perfect for a tight build like that, espcially since we're going to be pumping out workers by the boatload.

jb1964

Jun 09, 2004, 02:19 PM

For my education, why do you foresee pumping out scads of workers? I tend to play my games by the seat of my pants so it would be good to hear from someone that’s thinking more than just a couple steps ahead.

Bede

Jun 09, 2004, 05:43 PM

There are two key destinations:food and gold. Workers build the road to both.
And of these two food is most important because it produces the other.

Food: population is power! More people more commerce, more commerce, more science, more science, more commerce and science producing infrastructure, more commerce and and more science, more and better military....

So..the more workers on the ground the faster the terrain is improved to deliver food and gold.

The rule of thumb is 1.5-3 per town. It really depends upon the terrain and how fast the population in each town is growing. An optimum solution would have enough workers assigned at each town so that terrain development matches population growth. In other words, if the town grows in 5 turns then you need the number of workers at that town so that each citizen has a birthright of improved terrain to work. Alternatively you don't wnat the ground over-improved, in other words improved terrain with no citizen available to work it.

So what's the answer: three or four workers split between two towns until the town grows to pop7. Develop a tile at Town A. Town A grows, citizens works newly improved tile. Develop terrain at Town B, citizen works newly improved tile. And so forth.

After Despotism and growth past 7 the plan has to change. So, discussion of that later.

barbslinger

Jun 09, 2004, 05:46 PM

Nice explanation Brother Bede. Workers are my favorite unit. THey are the backbone of any empire.

SolarKnight

Jun 09, 2004, 05:48 PM

I will be able to play and I got it.

SK.

Edit: Just to clear things in my mind, are we settling the coast as much as possible then filling in the land after? That is the impression I am getting from the above posts, but just needed to clarify, any other comments welcome guys :).

alerum68

Jun 11, 2004, 01:37 AM

Sorry, didn't see your edit there SK. Yeah, settle the coast first... rest of the interior is far from great, so the coast is our best option. Also, prepare to go to war with America fairly quickly... we need our iron from them.

Bede

Jun 11, 2004, 09:04 AM

Think carefully about war with America for iron. It may not be necessary until we get to Steam Power and need to build rails. The mighty 'zerk is twice the attack and the same defense as a sword and has defensive bombard against attackers. And the amphibious 'zerk is almost invincible until the Industrial Age. An army of zerks in a boat is unstoppable.

For a good example of what zerks can do take a look at Sesn01

Poor Warmongering Fools (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=86765)

alerum68

Jun 11, 2004, 09:49 AM

SolarKnight

Jun 11, 2004, 12:28 PM

I have made a rough dotmap for the coastal settlement, any comments?

Gogf

Jun 11, 2004, 04:54 PM

I would move the red dot one tile East, or South-East.

Bede

Jun 11, 2004, 07:56 PM

I aggree that a zerk army is powerful, but there are more reasons to take america out now too. They have good lands, and are close. They have a nice penisula that I can see making a very nice worker farm. I made about 10 archers in my turns, for the sole purpose of becoming zerks.;) You don't think we should go to war?

I would go to war if it delivers some sustainable advantage. If we can get workers out of Abe's lands and they are better suited than ours for agriculture, then go for it.

Unless you are heading for an early rush, war too early can really hurt the long term development picture, as you are building troops when you could be building the towns to powerhouses.

Not a pacifist, just try to be thoughtful about it.

alerum68

Jun 11, 2004, 08:29 PM

I can't see the dotmap SK.:(

Bede, I am a pacificts... believe in build above all others, just seems like our land is way to many plains and desert for my taste and really want to bring the hurt to america before they hook up their iron and bring the hurt to us. I can hold off if the teams thinks it's best, but we already have a nice little archer army started, and I see a fairly easy path to taking all the cities up the iron then declaring peace... the only draw back is they may get Egypt in the fray. Like I said I'm willing to wait... if we do, what path would y'all suggest we go with this then?

alerum68

Jun 12, 2004, 12:49 AM

Yes, I'd move the red dot 1se too. Put it on the hill for defensive bonus and better land down the road.

Smellincoffee

Jun 12, 2004, 12:53 AM

Oops, forgot to reply in this one to say I was back. ;) Not really important since Alerum already knew, being in DGT2, BLA1, and RW1...but this WAS a loose end.

I'd say I'm glad to be back, but I really wasn't activein this thread to begin with due to IRL issues. :lol:

SolarKnight

Jun 12, 2004, 10:29 AM

Pre - Turn thoughts: I definately agree that the coastline looks like

our best bet.

we are either ahead or at parity with the ai players, though this

could change.

Currency is due in 3 turns, and we are losing 7 gold per turn.

plans: will settle coast with respect to dotmap (with red dot

moved due to teams opinion - thanks guys)

will try to build more workers to connect up the new cities faster.

Then will see if the situation warrants building up a greater army.

If not i will continue to build infrastructure.

Turn 1 975 BC:

told to leave by egypt, so i will, no sense causing a war weare not

ready for.

Bergen: archer -> Worker.
start building a road up towards where the revised red dot

location is.

Turn 2 950 BC:

worker moves.

Turn 3 925 BC:

Currency comes in, set to construction.

Trondheim: Settler -> Settler.
Bergen: Worker -> Archer.
Oslo: Worker -> Barracks.
Birka: Galley -> Worker.

send new settler to blue dot as i think that while the less fertile of

the two remaining spots, it is going to be easier to get there

before the egyptians do.

Turn 4 900 BC:

Copenhagen: Archer -> Marketplace, will take a fair amount of

time, but will help the economy, (next player is free to veto).

Reykjavik: Archer -> Worker.

Aarhus founded on revised red dot. (set to warrior.)

Turn 5 875 BC:

our new galley valiantly defends against one barb galley but is

redlined, then destroyed by another.
Americans start ToA.

worker moves.

Turn 6 850 BC:

Bergen: Archer -> Archer

worker moves.

Turn 7 825 BC:

Egypt start ToA.

Worker moves.

Turn 8 800 BC:

Trondheim: Settler -> Settler.
Reykjavik: Worker -> Harbour.
Birka: Worker -> Harbour.

Turn 9:

Bergen: Archer -> Market.

worker moves.

Turn 10:

D'oh, our curragh sinks, Im not the best with ships but i tried,

moved an archer to intercept a barb near aarhus.

Summary:

there is an american warrior - settler pair in our territory, i will

leave it to the next player to decide on the appropriate course of

action.

we have a settler on the Blue dot, ready to found, and a settler on

the way to the red dot as well, our economy isnt great, so ive

started to build markets and harbours in our cities.

Good luck to the next player.

alerum68

Jun 12, 2004, 06:48 PM

I think it may be a bit to early for marketplaces. We really need to do something about America soon guys... I suggest we attack them with a large force before they do it to us... one thing... seemed you pushed out the settler really quick... did you let the population recover, or just pull out 2 settlers ASAYC?

alerum68

Jun 14, 2004, 09:49 AM

Oblivion
Bede
Alerum
SK<==Just Played
JB <== Up
SmellinCoffee <== On Deck

JB1964, there's a 24 hour I got It limit, and we're already at 48 hours. If you haven't replied by monday evening, around 7pm pac time, I'm going to consider it a skip. That would mean SC would be up.;)

Smellincoffee

Jun 14, 2004, 03:53 PM

Ready to take it at 9 CST. ;)

Smellincoffee

Jun 14, 2004, 08:55 PM

It is nine pm CST...."got it".

Smellincoffee

Jun 14, 2004, 09:36 PM

|Summary: |
All cities connected via road; still building up for a war against the Americans.

|Inherited Turn- 750 BC:|
Everything looks spiffy.

|Turn 1 - 730 BC|
Juding from the amount of archers we have on the border, I'd say someone wants a war with the Americans. Guess I'll my part to prepare for one. We found Odense.

|Turn 2 - 710 BC|
Settler in Trondheim done, next up is a barracks.

|Turn 3 - 690 BC|
Arabs finish Temple of Artemis; put an embassy in our capital.

|Turn 4- 670 BC:|
Oppressing subjects here, hording money from the treasury there. Nothing much.

|Turn 5 - 650 BC:|
We need a galley for that nice little island off the mainland. Trondhiem can build one in five. We ask Lincoln to kindly remove his foul-smelling settler-warrior pair from our land. He says he will. In a pig's eye. We found Haried.

|Turn 6- 630 BC:|
Demand Lincoln remove his troops. He sulks off. "Honest" Abe my foot.

|Turn 7- 610 BC:|
Lincoln demands mapmaking. Miss Troi tells me that our militarys are of average size. I therefore tell the Americans to shove off. The Americans shove off. Heh, heh, heh.

|Turn 8- 590 BC:|
Nothing much.

|Turn 9- 570 BC:|
Our new galley, the SS Bloodlust sinks a barbarian galley. We sack a barbarian camp. Arabians build Pyramids.

|Turn 10 - 550 BC:|
Nothing.

|Next Player:|
One settler heading toward a good middle spot. I managed to build three archers and now all of our cities are connected via road.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/vikingkingdom_rw.jpg

All's well in Scandanavia...

alerum68

Jun 14, 2004, 09:39 PM

Good turns SC.:) To bad Abe didn't declare on us.:`( Save us alot of trouble. We need to do it quickly before he connects his iron. :hammer:

Bede <== Up
Alerum <== On Deck
SK
JB
SmellinCoffee <== Just Played

Smellincoffee

Jun 14, 2004, 09:58 PM

Oh. Um. I saw a worker go on top of the iron moutain on my last turn. FYI. I was going to move the warrior on top of the iron...y'know, resource denial..but I know that's one of those naughty exploits. ;)

Whoever's next may want to kill the workers (we have a camping warrior there) and then use our archers to blaze a path to the iron city.

Bede

Jun 14, 2004, 10:49 PM

Get it Tuesday. Play Tuesday PM.

Let's see if we can ride Abe out of town on one of his rails!

Bede

Jun 15, 2004, 07:49 PM

Mid term update.

Philly burned, Washington captured. Setting up for Atlanta (iron mine) next, then Boston (the new capital). Casualties light (some wounded, two dead archers)

alerum68

Jun 15, 2004, 08:00 PM

:mosh: (What will I have to do to get this into a smiley I wonder?) Sounds like you're having some fun there Bede.;) Look forward to the full report... speaking of full reports, gotta go finish SGOTM, so I shall check on you later.;)

Bede

Jun 16, 2004, 06:39 AM

0-550

Lots of trades on the table:

Currency to Egypt or Japan for Code of Laws
Currency to Arabia and the Celts and Aztecs for cash and or credit.

So...
First step is build an embassy in Kyoto
Has the Great Wall
pop 5 1 clown 7spt, 10fpt 8gpt 80% science, building the Mausoleum of Mausollos, three spears in the garrison, no luxes or resources. Toku knows Cleo, Abe, and Abu.

Sell Currency for Code of Laws and 26g. Net 1 tech worth 247g plus 26g so total value of trade 373g only need another 23g to get monopoly value for Currency.

Call on Cleo: Sell Currency for 195g
Use some of the cash to build an embassy: Thebes is pop4, 10 fpt, 6spt, 10gpt, 80% science, building the Pyrmaids, has two spears in garrison. Has contact with Abe and Toku.

Build an embassy with the Celts: Entremont is pop5, all productive. He's built the Oracle and the MauseHause.
6spt, 12 fpt, 8gpt, 70% science, two spears in garrison, building a temple. Has iron and furs. Only has contact with us or Aztecs.

Sell him Polytehism for 82g.

Take the money and open an embassy with the Aztecs. I think I just found the big dog in this hunt. Teno is pop7, one clown, 16fpt, 9spt, 11gpt 100% science. Has horses and silks, four spears in fgarrison, building the Pyramids due in 3. He knows us and Abu.

Sell him Polytheism for 76g

Open an embassy in Washington: pop4 7spt, 10fpt, 9gpt, 80% science, building the MausHaus. Two spears and a warrior in garrison with a settler waiting.

Shift all coastal city builds to harbors. Hire a scientist at Bergen so I can pull archers out of the garrison. When the Marketplace comletes in two scinetist will go back to work. Drop lux to 0 and raise science to 100% for Literature.

When Abe completes the iron road I'm going to sell him something and empty his treasury.

1-530
Move archers into assault position.

Arabs start Hanging Gardens

2-510
Mishandle Trondheim and it grows to seven

3-490
Positioning archers for assault on Philadlephia.

4-470
Abe is moving a spear towards the iron mountain. Declare war and plant warrior on the iron. Move archers into place
to take Philadelphia.

5-450
Found two towns in the plains start building catapaults.
Assault Philadelphia, raze the town and get six slaves but no gold.

The attack on Philadelphia wounds two archers and kills one. There were three spears in the garrison.

Wounded fortify in forest. Workers are sent to build road to the core. Remainder of archer band moves on into America.

Rather than get stalled at the size 1 towns and diminsih the effectiveness of the force the archer band will move right on Washington.

Prior to opening the war I had hoped to trade for Monarchy with Abu to sell to Abe, hopoing to put him into anarchy during our attack. DIdn't work. Abu wouldn't give it up.

Abe dispatches a settler and warrior from Washington into the teeth of the advance.

6-430
Archer band ignores settler pair and move deeper into America. Warrior cuts road to Atlanta.

American archer attacks warrior on hill and slays him. Archer is crippled. Conscipt warrior appraoches the band.

7-410
Kill the conscript and march to the gates of Washington.

Advancing archer kills warrior gaurding settler and promotes to elite.

8-390
We learn Literature and enter the MA.

Sell Literature to Cleopatra and add 60 gold for an Alliance against Abe. Sell literature to Toku and add 80g for an alliance against Abe.

We lose an archer but capture Washington.

9-370
Head fresh troops toward Atlanta and a settler toward the rubble of Philadelphia. Workers get irrigation up the west coast.

Abe counters with a warrior from Houston and an archer from Atlanta

10-350
Wipe out Abe's lone archer in the hills above Atlanta.

Now we get to play the waiting game. Settle Abe's lands from the coastlines inwards, starting with the settler in the forest east of Reykjavik. Move 1s to the river and found right there. The next settler should go too the coastline between Oslo and Washington and the next to either the incense hill or the rubble of Philly.

Rather than chew up the archer force attacking Abe's towns after destroying Atlanta let him come to us. He has hooked up his horses at Boston so the next counter attacks will be mounted, though not very soon. Of Abe's towns only Boston and New York are worth having. The others are fishing villages and probably will be given away in peace negotiations once Boston is captured and NY razed (unless it grows bewteen now and the attack on it, so you don't need to spend resources capturing them. Once the forces at Washington and atlanta have healed move straight in Boston, but don't be in a hurry.

Our allies (Egypt and Japan) are probably racing each other to Abe's town on the finger west of Trondheim. Let 'em. If they show up in the northern plains put a worker/warrior wall across the neck leading to America

The towns are building courthouses in preparation for marketplaces then libraries. If you build reinforcements for the troops, build archers or warriors, not spears.

Our settlement pattern is evolving towards an Infinite City Sprawl so our best next government choice is Monarchy, or even Feudalism. The nature of the terrain suggests that we won't have towns above pop6 for a while, so unit support in a Republican government will be expensive and only marginally better in Moanrchy. Feudalism is a good choice in that situation and will last all the way to Democracy, or even Communism, depending on our choice of strategy.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1_0011.jpg

alerum68

Jun 16, 2004, 09:56 AM

Scared me when I saw the Dogpile in your title... thought it was on us!:p Good trading there... We're in the MA!:) No more worrying about river movement.:p

Yes, we do have a very tight build going on, but the land itself isn't that great. To get the most from it, we need a tight build. I don't think I've used Feudalism over Monarchy before... whats the benifits in our situation over Monarchy?

How is our Gold coming? We're in the MA so I say we beeline for Invention for our UU. Then we can make the world ours.;)

Oblivion
Bede
Alerum <== Up
SK <== On Deck
JB <== Getting Ready. JB, if you don't let us know you're still around I'm going to have to drop you.
SmellinCoffee

If JB is gone as I fear, anyone know of someone who'd be interested in joining this game?

Smellincoffee

Jun 16, 2004, 12:56 PM

Heeeey, what happened to the galley? :lol:

Bede

Jun 16, 2004, 01:45 PM

Galley's getting a refit after a scouting mission to the west.

We have most of the gold. Research was shut off once we entered the MA. I didn't see any reason to spend money on research. Let the other guys pay for some of it, especially the more expensive MA stuff.

The biggest benefit of Fuedalism is tha it lifts the despotism food restrictions, and imporves the worker labor rate. It doesn't do much for commerce or industry, but is a real miltary boost as we will never surpass the free unit support limits as long as the majority of the towns are below pop6. Monarchy and Republic military costs can be major gold suckers unless you have cities at 7 or above. It has War Weariness on a par with Republic. Corruption is the same as Monarchy and not much different from Republic. Once the populations and city counts get higher then a switch to some other form is in order. (OCN on this map without the FP is 17 towns, 23 with the FP. In Republic it rises to 18 w/o FP and 25 without.)

Here is a table from Tavis at Firaxis comparing the different governments:

From Firaxis (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3images/c3c_governments.gif)

alerum68

Jun 16, 2004, 08:14 PM

We will loose the ability to cash rush with it though.... I really like doing quick rushes. hummm... kinda feels like six of one, half dozen of another...

alerum68

Jun 17, 2004, 02:11 PM

Turn 0 (350BC)
MM the cities a tiny bit. Notice that Houston will most likely be Abe's capitol city once we take out Bean Town.
Arabia won't give up Monarchy for anything. Abu's being a real jerk.
See that we're building Couthouses EVERYWHERE for Marketplace prebuilds, but only have 2 luxuries... will marketplaces help us in this respect at all?
Ahhh... now I see.. 2 luxuries will soon appear, making it 6 happiness.
Change Copenhagen to an Archer... 5 shields after mine builds... will be a nice even number, no waste.
Why is there a mine between Aarhus and Oslo? Thinking to far ahead gentlemen.:p
There's a galley Forted in Trondheim.. what were your plans for him Bede? I guess it's going to have to wait 10 turns, because I have no idea.

IBT
Barb attacks the Galley I took out of port to take a look at the island to the west of Trondheim. We go Elite. Also notice 2 more cities are on that Island. One is Egyptian, the other is Japanese.
Arabs are building the great library.

Turn 1(330BC)
Bede suggest taking only New York and Boston. I think he forgot to throw Atlanta in the mix there. They have Iron. Abe will never trade it for peace.

*** Battle of Atlanta***
4hp Elite Archer vs Reg Spear - We win, 1 dam taken
Vet Archer vs Reg Spear - We Lost, and he promoted.
Vet Archer vs 3hp Vet Spear.. The calc doesn't like the odds. (shrugs) If I die, sorry guys. - I win. Atlanta is ours. Those calculators never are right for me.:|
This allows us to move all our archers ne of washington, and ready to strike Boston and NY.
Abe will give us every city but Chicago NY and San Francisco for peace. (smirks)

IBT
Abe unloads an archer in our borders.
Trondheim Settler > Settler

Turn 2 (310BC)
Sacrifice worker to make a colony on the Incense in Old America. This allows us to turn luxury off.
Found Bodo.
I don't see a say to save Aarhus... wait, maybe... Rush a spear in Aarhus... lose some pop, keep the city. I hope it builds before they attack.

Have an attack force of 1 elite, and 3 vet archers set for both NY and Boston, will be attacking in 2 turns.

IBT
Nope, we the rushing wasn't enough. We loose Aarhus. And it shrinks to size 1, so we'll have to trade to get her back.:(
2 workers enter New York.
Egyptians send a war chariot towards our lands, trying to get to America... I hope.
Arabs start the Colossus.
Resitence in Atlanta Ends.

Turn 3 (290BC)
Vet archer vs reg warrior - We win, but redline.
The Island is really a pennisula now that I look at it zoomed out... and the Jap city that was there is now Gone. Looks like Abe took care of him.

IBT
Archer falls to English Archer that left NY.
Large stack of Egytpian units move towards... Aarhus I believe.
Copenhagen Archer > Archer
Aztecs building Statue of Zeus.

Turn 4 (270BC)
*** New York ***
Elite Archer vs Reg Spear - We win, 2 dam.
Vet Archer vs Reg Spear - WOW! What a battle! We lose 1hp, they lose 1, we loose 2, then we trade blows 10 times before he finally looses 2 hps, and falls! We Promote to Elite, and New York is Ours!

4hp Elite Archer vs 1hp reg archer - we loose 2 hps, and win the battle. Oh yes, someone named Erik lead the charge... this one will help us alot... I plan on building an army around this one may, who surely can LEAD us into any battle.;) Tell Erik to go to Washington and wait until we can some better troops to use him with.:)

*** Battle of Boston ***
Elite Archer vs Reg Spear - we win, Boston is Ours. This also gives us Horses.

Go to the table to talk... he'll give us every city but Chicago for peace. We have another 14 turns left on the aliance... what do you think? I'm going to stop the game here, let you guys talk about this a bit before I start it up again. I'm afraid we'll ruin our rep if we end things now. If we don't take peace, Egypt will march on Aarhus in a few turns... I have some warriors blocking it, but won't be able to hold out for 14 turns!!!

Smellincoffee

Jun 17, 2004, 02:22 PM

Here's what I'm thinking:
- finish the Americans off.
- declare war on Egypt once Americans are dead, retake our city.
- have peace whenever we can.

This is, of course, contingent on killing off the Americans won't ruin our trading reputation because we killed them off before the alliance was over. :lol:

Bede

Jun 17, 2004, 03:55 PM

Let Abe live until the alliance runs out. If Egypt takes Aarhus the city will be razed as I am pretty sure the borders have not expanded, so there is no need to take it back, just build a new one. I can't see the save so I'm not 100% sure about this.

It is way to early to ruin our trading reputation. Egypt already knows the Japanese who know other people, so the word will spread and we will end up forcing deals down people's throats.

On the Marketplaces, they not only contribute to contentment, they also boost treasury revenue to help with things like unit support, so even with no luxes they have their uses, but with dyes, ivory and wine and marketplaces we are in great shape for growth past six when the time comes.

alerum68

Jun 17, 2004, 06:43 PM

Turn 4 - IBT
Egypt easily makes it around my 2 warrior, 1 worker barricade. They're 1 tile away from the forest of Aarhus.
Hareid Harbor > worker
Arabs switch back to Statue of Zeus... they need to make up their minds.

Turn 5 (250BC)
America has no viable attack options with razing. Can't declare war til the allience expires... Why did we sign that anyway? Just to prevent America from doing it?
I send Healfdene back to Reykjavik and form our first army. This was done to allow us to get more leaders. I think we should wait til we get zerks to load into the army. Send the Army to Copenhagen
Figure Aarhus is lost, but still try and move warrior in position to block an assult for 1 turn.
Start forest chop in Oslo to hurry the marketplace along.

IBT
Egypt can't attack Aarhus this turn. Nothing much else.
Copenhagen worker > Library

Turn 6 (230BC)
Vet warrior vs vet american warrior - We won. Go Elite.
*** Liberation of Aarhus ***
Reg warrior vs reg archer - We win, going redline. (coughs) We RECLAIM Aarhus, doesn't raze. Set production to Barracks.
Tell Egypt to remove or Declare.
She aggrees, but 2 of her chariots are left on the south side of Aarhus.

IBT
I thinks she's coming after us, not America She moves several units near to our cities. I'm sending all archers that we can afford back towards the homeland.
Trondheim Settler > Settler
Quell a resister in Boston.
Egyptians start Great Library.

Turn 7(210BC)
Kick Cleo out again. She aggrees.
Found Karasjok betwen Oslo and Washington. Set production to worker
Start forest chop on Washington's courthouse.
Can now sign peace with America and claim all Abe's cities... but don't to save rep. We'll have to wait another 11 turns before we can even consider the idea, at which point I'm sure he'll have grown enough where the deal won't be around. I'm going to start razing and rebuilding cities instead of capturing them.

*** Seatle ***
Vet Arch vs reg Spear - Ouch! Bad RNG. We redline him, and he fights back and kills us.
Vet Arch vs reg Spear - We kill second spear, get redlined but promote.

IBT
Egypt heads home, besides a galley which heads to Seatle.
Atlanta riots due WW.
Aztecs start the great library

Turn 8 (190 BC)
Send settler up to the north.

IBT
Egypt marches into our lands again. Their galley enters Seatles waters. Will block them from landing with an archer on the next round.
Bergen Library (First one!) > Aqueduct (Vetoable)
Order restored in Atlanta
Birka Galley > Marketplace

Turn 9 (170BC)
Tell Egypt to remove again. She does.:)
Turn Feudalism up to max pulling Feudalism in 16 turns. If we build libraries, we should use them. We have 513 gold, with a net loss of 11 gpt. I want my Zerk army!!!:p
Japan is now the tech leader. They still won't give us Monarchy.
MM as best as I can see to get everything balanced properly.

IBT
Egypt enters our lands again. They also send their galley around, and unload on the other side of Seatle. Doesn't matter.
Aztecs found a new city... Chalco.

Turn 10 (150BC)
*** Seatle ***
Elite Archer vs Reg Spear - We Won. Lose 3hps. Destroy Seatle.

Northern settler lands on square I think we should settle him.
Tell Cleo to leave yet again, and she does.

We have to wait 8 more turns before we can make peace with America.
I think we're 1 shield short of building a settler in Trondheim. Damn.
We should think about turning our attention north after this, but I really suggest we have a peroid of building at this point.

Bede

Jun 17, 2004, 07:33 PM

:goodjob: Well done.

Can't declare war til the allience expires... Why did we sign that anyway? Just to prevent America from doing it?

Exactly. Abe knew both Japan and Cleo and had RoP agreements with both. If we did not have an alliance with them they would have hit us from behind.

I thinks she's coming after us, not America She moves several units near to our cities. I'm sending all archers that we can afford back towards the homeland.

I don't think you need to be so touchy about Cleo's trespass. She has to cross our territory to get to Abe, our mutual enemy. We are her ally and we are winning and it's unlikely she will do anything to jeopardize the relationship, now. When the war with America ends, at the end of the alliance, is the time to be concerned about Cleopatra's intentions. Patience is a virtue....

send Healfdene back to Reykjavik and form our first army. This was done to allow us to get more leaders. I think we should wait til we get zerks to load into the army. Send the Army to Copenhagen

Put archers (or just one) into the army and wait for Abe to offer battle. Win the battle and build the Heroic Epic with the next leader. You don't need to fill the army and a combination of an archer and two 'zerks is a pretty potent land combination, with the archer's defense bombard covering the 'zerks.

Don't forget, galleys won't carry a full army (general and one effective fillls the boat), so land based capability is required as well.

Turn Feudalism up to max pulling Feudalism in 16 turns. If we build libraries, we should use them. We have 513 gold, with a net loss of 11 gpt. I want my Zerk army!!!

Good choice!!

Smellincoffee

Jun 17, 2004, 07:41 PM

Good job rescuing our city and preventing it from falling into the hands of Cleo. And I wouldn't trust her. Cleo's evil sometimes. ;)

alerum68

Jun 19, 2004, 10:04 AM

Roster:
Bede
Alerum
SK <== Skipped
JB <==Skipped
SmellinCoffee < == Up

SK hasn't posted an "I got it" in 48 hours, and JB is MIA, presumed gone. SC, you're up!

Smellincoffee

Jun 19, 2004, 11:50 AM

Oh, good. Got it.

Smellincoffee

Jun 19, 2004, 01:00 PM

Inherited - 150 BC

Looks interesting.

Turn 1 - 130 BC
Nothing much, move some archers near San Francisco. (I remind the army to be sure to wear some flowers in their hair. They might meet some gentle people there. Har har har.) Japan betrays us by signing peace with America.

Turn 2- 110 BC
Founded Tromso.

Turn 3- 90 BC
Nothing much......Egpyt and America sign a peace treaty. Ah, Cleo.

Turn 4- 70 BC:
Approach Abe. He'll give us every city but one. I decide to take his deal. This will leave Houston and San Francisco on our continent, and they can be easily dealt with. And so we take peace for Chicago, Miami, some American slaves, and two gold. I have a feeling Cleopata is going to attack us This is because there are three foritifed war chariots sitting near Karasjok. Just a guess. ;)

War chariots are near Aarhus, Copenhagen, and Karasjok. Well, if she thinks I'm going to sit here waiting for her to attack, she's got another thing coming. I demand she get out....and she does. Okay, whatever.

Turn 5- 50 BC
Found Vadso on the same isle that Chicago is on, toward the south. They'll go whaling.

Turn 6- 30 BC
We're in serious need of settlers. And defense.

Turn 7- 10 BC
Ah...nothing.

Turn 8- 10 AD
It's a new century. Same old Vikings, though.

Turn 8- 30 AD
*SC stifles yawn*
Oh- look! The Aztecs are demanding...currency? Poor Montezuma, you're not in the middle ages yet? Poor Montezuma. You know the Aztecs are my favorite civ. And look, here's the excuse I need, they have more troops than us. But...despite my love for the Aztecs and the fact that I could easily give you currency, I can't bring myself to do it. Begone, Montezuma!

Montezuma vanishes.
Turn 9- 50 AD
Nothing. Done with Feudalism, though. Start researching engineernig, which we need for invention. Picard pops up to ask me to change to feudalism. Speaking of which, are we planning to get out of despotism? Ever? :lol:

Turn 10- 70 AD
Nothing much.

Turn 11 - 90 AD:
Oops. Accidently hit enter. Heheh. I go ahead and play the turn, I'll play nine the next time I'm up.

Next Player:
Settle and colonize like mad! ;) Chicago is ticked off at the moment, Abe beat the life out of them.

SolarKnight

Jun 19, 2004, 05:35 PM

I'm back now, my pc power supply has been replaced and I'm ready to re - take my place in the roster.

Bede

Jun 19, 2004, 08:32 PM

Got it.

Do we want to revolt to Feudalism or buy Monarchy?, or buy Republic?

I suppose I'll do the math tonight unles some Excel wiz can build a govswitchcalc.exe

Smellincoffee

Jun 19, 2004, 08:35 PM

I think most of our towns are smallish, on plains and tundra...but you never know. Since we intend to go to war once we get enough Beserks, republic probably isn't the best choice.

Guess you can do the math and figure out which is better, monarchy or feudalism. But we already have feudalism, so...

jb1964

Jun 19, 2004, 09:33 PM

Back in town. What's the order these days?

alerum68

Jun 19, 2004, 09:51 PM

When I was playing the save I saw very few cities that will every get above size 7. With the military cost based on size for Monarchy, I'd have to aggree with your earlier assessment that Feudalism is the choice for us, maybe for the rest of this game. Go ahead, and please crunch the numbers... But I'll add a second vote for Feudalism... besides, I've never used it before so would be a good way to try each one.

alerum68

Jun 19, 2004, 10:10 PM

Are you going to be able to play your turns, without skips JB? I actually was going to drop you from inactivity since the game has started. If you'll be able to take the time, and finish the game out, I'll slot you back in.

Bede < == Up
Alerum < == On Deck
SK
JB
SmellinCoffee <==Just Played

jb1964

Jun 20, 2004, 01:48 AM

I'll be able to play my turns out. I just got back into town and have already pick up one game and posted my turns in about 4 hours. Our game here will take a little more thought though.

Bede

Jun 20, 2004, 11:01 PM

0-90AD

First step is reorganize the worker corps. Pull them back into the second ring cities to chop forests during the upcoming anarchy period and have them in useful gangs for the expansion northwards. The new towns on the peninsula need some help too, so I start workers there and ship a couple from the mainland.

We have two galleys hanging around without anything to do, send one off exploring as there is still one nation yet to be met, probably in the far north.

Turn the scinece expenditure to 100%, then go looking to find a scientific nation, not in the MA, only to discover there is none. The Celts however do need to be relieved of some of their excess cash.

He pays 186g for Literature so I spend some of it to look at his capitol: pop3, 5spt, 8fpt, 8gpt, 70% science, the Oracle and the MausHaus, horses and iron, furs for sale, building a stadium, three spears in the garrison.

Cleopatra also has some gold to spend, but has not researched an MA tech yet.

Pick up the archer force and send it north to say howdy to Cleopatra.

Send a couple of workers to the peninsula.

At 150AD shut off research and fire the government, we draw six turns of anarchy.

At 260AD we form a feudal realm. Income rises 20gpt, science output rises commesurately, corruption remains the same, maintenance is up 1gpt because a courthouse finished in the anarchy.

Despotism:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1_Despotism.jpg

Fuedalism:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1_Fuedalism.jpg

It is now 300AD. Alles in ordnung except that corruption and waste are killing the productivity of our eastern and northern towns.

There are three possible deals on the table with Cleopatra (none closed).

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1Trade01.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1Trade02.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1Trade03.jpg

The only recommendation I would make is keep Feudalism as a possible trade for Monotheism and get as much cash and payments out of her as possible. I am not sure we need the added luxury, other than it would allow us to trade another luxury to someone else, but who? And buying a lux from Cleopatra would allow her to turn up the bunsen burners. I don't know if we want to enhance the research pace... Selling a lux to Cleo would probably have the effect of improving her productivity and income as she has at least two cities at pop6 or above but would drain her treasury. (I did spend 70g to find this out.)The Arabs have learned Feudalism, but the Japanese or the Egyptians have not. We need Monotheism to get the upper layer techs on the path to Astronomy and Navigation.

There are Japanese warriors wandering around on our northern border and American spears cruising the east. Abe did not come calling to renew the Peace Treaty on its expiration so I sent some archers to the southeast. The bulk of the force including the army is in the north. Since the treaty is now expired I would go ahead and finish Abe off, Washington first. He has nothing we need but will remain a thorn in our side as long as he occupies his little corner.

We are currently running 100% science towards Engineering and can probably maintain that pace to Invention.

In the future the best science tactic is all or none (or minimum), even if "all" means deficit spending. Trying to maintain positive cash flow and a high research rate is usually a losing approach, as even should some other nation acquire a tech ahead of us the investment will reduce the purchase price when, or if, one decides to trade for it.

The workers in the core should be mining and roading hills and irrigating grasslands without shield bonuses. There are still forests to be chopped to jump-start or finish improvements. When the mine finishes at Copenhagen, switch a citizen to it so the Acqueduct finishes faster, then keep a native worker handy to add in. The city will be at or above 10spt then (a granary there would speed population growth). Adding a native worker or two to Bergen (another good granary candidiate) would speed the FP build as well since there are unused mined grasslands available.

With the removal of the Despotism food penalty Trondheim is a four turn settler producer.

alerum68

Jun 21, 2004, 12:09 AM

Very nice Bede... sorry you pulled the Anarchy. Consider this my got it. (And Yes, I know It's me thats up in this one.) I'll try to take you suggestions, but there were quiet a few so if I miss one or two, then you can remind the next leader to do it.:p

Bede

Jun 21, 2004, 05:49 AM

Sorry to be so directive...

There are two important decisions to be made: over-all direction and research pace.

And the anarchy period is an opportunity to contemplate Infinity and the Buddha.

alerum68

Jun 22, 2004, 09:34 PM

This, like the SGOTM will have to wait til tommorow I'm afraid. Was a long day, and the only reason I opened Civ at all tonight was to finish DGIT up. Will post a turn-log sometime in the next 24 hours.

alerum68

Jun 23, 2004, 11:14 PM

Turn 0 (300AD)
zzz

IBT
Egypt ask us to leave. We aggree.
Egypt is building Hanging Gardens and Colossus
Aztecs are building Hanging Gardens

Turn 1(310AD)
Found Fauske in the far south. Set production to Worker

IBT
Japan looks like it's moving to take out America. I don't have any troops in the south to do it myself right now though. It's okay... plan on making these peaceful builder turns.

Turn 2 ( 320AD)
Change Reykjavik from Library to Courthouse.

IBT
Egypt declares war on the Carthaginians! I don't know if we've met them yet...
Engineering comes in. Full Speed ahead towards Invention in 12, and then Conquest!
Trondheim Settler > Settler

Turn 3 (330AD)
Change 2 mined grasslands near Copenhagen to irigated grasslands.
We FINALLY get iron hooked up.:p
Looks like we're going to run out of money before Invention comes in. Turn it down so we only loose 70 gold instead of 275. It cost us 3 turns, but I don't like running out of money.
I'm going to stop playing at 350AD, or turn 150. This will fix the turns again. I don't know how they keep getting so messed up.:( Does anyone else check on their turns? Anyway, end 100 years past the starting date will balance us out. So next player is 450, then 550, and so on...

IBT
Arabs complete Statue of Zeus.

Turn 4 (340AD)
zzz. Archers arive near border of San Fransisco, but don't declare war... truthfully, I want to keep building on my last 2 turns. Will let the next leader :hammer: America.

IBT
New York Harbor > Courthouse
Oslo Courthouse > Aqueduct
Aztecs are building Great Lighthouse and Colloseus.
CRAP! Unload a settler right next to a barb camp, and there's no one there to defend but a Japanese settler pair. I'm dead.
Start busting some fog up north with a galley.

Like I said, stopped playing after 5 turns to reset the turns to make it a bit more normal, and also because I'm tired and played 3 SGs in the last 48 hours, including 16 hours of work.

alerum68

Jun 23, 2004, 11:28 PM

Bede
Alerum <== Just Played
SolarKnight <== Up
JB <== On Deck
SmellinCoffee

jb1964

Jun 24, 2004, 10:29 AM

With Cleo at war we should look to make the lux trade to her to get the cash before she exhausts it. The benefits she realizes from the lux will go to fuel her war against the Cathinians.

We get the cash, she beats on another AI, her tech pace slows down.

alerum68

Jun 24, 2004, 10:35 AM

jb1964

Jun 24, 2004, 12:29 PM

I was thinking that now would probably be the perfect time to attack... well in how ever many turns it takes for us to get Invention and our Zerks. We have several archers, as well as an army right on the border with Egypt, just waiting to finish her off. Normally your suggestion would be a great idea, but I don't know about entering a deal for 20 turns, which we may want to break in less then 10.

If her North is being worked over :ar15: :egypt: :whipped: then it's our duty to consider spanking her "southern boarders". :nono:

I'm really enjoy these SG's. It's this kind of input that makes it fun and really helps my game.

Bede

Jun 24, 2004, 06:47 PM

We are at least twenty turns from taking on Cleopatra, I think.

We still need to finish research on the tech needed and build some boats and accumulate enough cash to upgrade our vet archers. America provides a great opportunity for leader fishing to pull leaders to rush small wonders, like Heroic Epic, and put enough armies on the ground to build the Pentagon, though the Pentagon will not be of much value till we have transports, though the extra movement in the armies on the ground and the fourth unit for our ground troops will be helpful.

My experience in Sesn01 suggests that zerks on land are much less effective than zerks attacking from the sea. Their defensive value is just too low to make them safe unless grouped in armies and then you can't transport them until you have galleons or transports.

As for the trades: What's her government? If it is Republic then the lux will help keep her at war with Carthage, if it's Monarchy or Despotism it won't matter.

Getting Monotheism and the upper tier from Cleo is a good way to proceed, either by trade or by axe...But don't forget about the Japanese. Cleo can be our friend and the Japanese our enemy as they occupy the other side of a very narrow landbridge into Cleo's territory. We get cheap protection from their land based units while we hammer on thier coastal cities.

alerum68

Jun 26, 2004, 01:20 AM

Solar Knight is an autoskip. JB, you're up.

jb1964

Jun 26, 2004, 12:41 PM

Save is at the bottom. Everything looks the same but different.

FP is being built far too close to the capitol. But with nothing to switch production over to I’ll leave it as is. Was the plan to jump the palace?

We’re way below our unit limit so I switch over some production. Beside, some of our towns are unprotected. I also change over the production of a few marketplaces in location where happiness is not an issue. If the people get cranky we can use up to 3 MP’s to keep them in line.

No deals to be had. I’ll check every turn and report.

Yep, the settler gets killed off.

Turn 1 Not much
Turn 2 Less
Turn 4
Engineering to Cleo for 145g, 19gpt, Monotheism and Spices.
Arabia will take engineering for 18gpt and change but I’ll check back next turn.
Science is at 100% brining in Invention in 6.
Population is happy and we’re building stuff.

Turn 5
I take our galley across deep water to avoid a barb galley and scan the Aztec coast. I now have defenders in place to attack America and I declare.

Turn 6
American spear is headed towards Bodo because it’s undefended. But it’s not. Two warriors and an MI will be there before him. Two elite archer victories but no GL.
No deals to be had. The only thing we lack is Republic and we don’t want it.

Turn 7
No deals to be had.
Vet and elite archer die to regular spear in San Fransisco.

Turn 9
Take science back to 30% and still get invention next turn.
Egypt came calling for a MPP and alliance vs. Carthage. I politely declined. Her coffers keep going lower and lower.

Turn 10
American units attempting to cause trouble are killed off. Invention is done and we are the first to the finish line. I set tech on Gunpowerder but our research path is open for debate as this is turn 1. I guess we should also look to pull back tech and fund the upgrade of our archers.
We have money to upgrade two vet archers to beserkers but at 150g a pop we’re done.
In hindsight I should have taken the Arabian deal for Engineering. They have it now but no money for invention. 360g would have been two beserkers and change. Blah!

Batsfjord and Karistad were founded during these turns. We have a settler and archer a few island over aiming to claim the iron.

Every city build is open to change.

The Save at 450 AD, Turn 160 (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1_450AD.SAV)

Smellincoffee

Jun 26, 2004, 03:09 PM

Got it. I'll get at it right away. :)

Bede

Jun 26, 2004, 05:07 PM

:goodjob: Well done, jb.

How's my buddy Brennus doing?

Can we still broker techs across among the folks who don't know each other? We may want to consider shutting off research other than the token scientist somewhere, accumulating cash for upgrades, and getting our knowledge and extra cash through brokering.

FP is being built far too close to the capitol. But with nothing to switch production over to I’ll leave it as is. Was the plan to jump the palace?

Remember that in C3C the FP affects OCN and rank corruption and has minimal effect on distance corruption. Getting it built early, even if close to the capital guarantees two virtually corruption-free cities for the rest of the game.

If Leo's Workshop is still available, now that we learned Invention we could switch to build that using the shields accumulated from the FP.

We’re way below our unit limit so I switch over some production. Beside, some of our towns are unprotected. I also change over the production of a few marketplaces in location where happiness is not an issue. If the people get cranky we can use up to 3 MP’s to keep them in line.

Marketplaces improve cash flow as well as raise the contentment of the citizenry. Those 3MP's would do better service at the front than in garrison duty. If you have any culture building and uncorrupted gold in a town a market is a necessity.

Unit limit should not be a problem for a long time as long as we keep growing the number of towns. The problem I foresee is continuing to fund research and culture.

Smellincoffee

Jun 26, 2004, 05:51 PM

Inherited - 450 AD:
Everything (other than the fact that we're at war with the Americans and don't have massive stacks of Beserkers poised to take their two cities) looks good.

Turn 1- 460 AD:
We found Hammerfest. In Risor, I upgrade one of our archers into a Beserk. Erik will also be upgraded, when we get the money. An American archer leaves Houston; I'll assume he's on his way to the undefended Miami. Americans request peace. I'm pretty sure the object of this war is to eliminate him, so I tell him to bugger off. He was only offering equal peace, anyway.

Turn 2- 470 AD:
Hmm...nothing much.

Turn 3- 480 AD:
That archer was about to reinforce San Francisco. We killed him.

Turn 4- 490 AD:
I attack San Francisco. A Beserker wins. Golden Age. Crap, was I supposed to do that? I don't think so. But the Beserker is now elite, and that's good. And now we can prepare for eventual war with Egypt better.

Turn 5- 500 AD:
Nothing much.

Turn 6- 510 AD:
American archer at Farsund. An archer I sent to Farsund attacks the enemy; dies, but now the enemy only has one HP left. I don't want to risk losing our one defender of the city in a risky battle (Archers are on moutain) so I do not pursue.

:
[b]Odense (those soon-to-be-whipped no-good waste-of-perflectly-good-air idiots) flips to the Egyptians. I founded that town! I don't get it- everyone there was Happy! No content or unhappy citizens. The least Cleo could've done is reject them. I know the AI can. I guess there's oil there, but it's the first town we take when we'll go to war. In the mean time, we prepare for war..

How evil can you be? Flipping during our golden age..

Turn 8- 530 AD:
We attack Houston....and generate a leader with our elite Beserker. Maybe no one will remember Odense now. The battle is mostly successful. We take one loss, but only an archer remains defending the city.

Turn 9- 540 AD:
War weariness kicks in, and Trondhiem riots. 25% of the populance wants us to give peace a chance. We will. A peice of America, peice of Egypt.We take Houston, the attacking MDI is now elite.I decide to send the leader to Trondhiem; we can disucss what to do with him, although I have an idea and
it begins with "A".

Turn 10 - 550 AD
Our palace expands. Whoo-hoo.

Next Player:
Most of our offensive troops are heading for Risor. I don't know when we're planning on going to war with Egypt, but I know we're going to. Odense isn't going to become a proud Egpytian city. :p

Bede

Jun 26, 2004, 06:07 PM

:hmm: War weariness in ten turns from the declaration, even with the luxes we have and relatively small town sizes.

So, overwhelming force and lightning strikes will be the battle orders.

Boats and berserks and pikes for MP duty in the cities and towns...

How many 'zerks can I build in ten turns?

Got it, play tomorrow.

Smellincoffee

Jun 26, 2004, 06:19 PM

You should be able to work up a sizable mess of Beserks. :D

alerum68

Jun 26, 2004, 07:10 PM

Oh yeah, it's now getting fun.;) How many boats do we have? Can we start launching on the other contients? Well, the only question about the MGL is how many 'zerks do we through in the army... filler up and keep it on our large contient, or ship him around?

Smellincoffee

Jun 26, 2004, 07:20 PM

Are we going for domination here, too? Egad...I just finished up one domination game solo, one domination game SG (N3). SGOTM is going for domination, too. I'm tired of domination! :lol:

alerum68

Jun 26, 2004, 07:24 PM

Domination? Nah... would be easy though... I want Conquest for this game... Y'all aggree?:)

Bede

Jun 26, 2004, 07:33 PM

Conquest should be fun.

Smellincoffee

Jun 26, 2004, 08:08 PM

As long as we don't have to govern thousands of workers, I'm okay. If I have to play SGOTM again, I'm fortifying all of those suckers and making them wait ten turns to wake up again. :lol:

alerum68

Jun 27, 2004, 10:12 AM

As long as we don't have to govern thousands of workers, I'm okay. If I have to play SGOTM again, I'm fortifying all of those suckers and making them wait ten turns to wake up again. :lol:

Come on bro, you know it's not that bad... If you want, I can make DGIT3 a workers game, and show you how tough things can be.:p Say 3 workers a city should be perfect!:p

jb1964

Jun 27, 2004, 12:30 PM

:Can we still broker techs across among the folks who don't know each other?

I think everyone knows everyone.

:Remember that in C3C the FP affects OCN and rank corruption and has minimal effect on distance corruption. Getting it built early, even if close to the capital guarantees two virtually corruption-free cities for the rest of the game.

Thanks for the tip. I'm actually pretty new to C3C and didn't realise that was the case. Thanks FP's already built.

:Marketplaces improve cash flow as well as raise the contentment of the citizenry. Those 3MP's would do better service at the front than in garrison duty. If you have any culture building and uncorrupted gold in a town a market is a necessity.

Good point. My narrow view of Markets is for happiness only.

Good going guys.

Conquest sounds good.

Bede

Jun 27, 2004, 04:23 PM

0-550
Trade some wines to Arabia for 10gpt and change.
Cleopatra has no cash and will trade Theology for Invention, leave it for now as we could use some cash for it as well. Brennus is broke, so no point in offering him Monotheism.

We need boats, lots of boats. I am going to start gathering zerks and boats at Birka. Our next target should be Japan, not Egypt, as Egypt is researching the top of the tree for us and Japan is, well I don't know where Japan is, but will find out by offering him Invention and he doesn't have enough left to tell. He lacks both iron and Chivalry, so has no Samurai.

Our real target is the Egyptians but I see one big problem with that: Odense. Our culture is virtually flatlined and Egypt's is at least twice ours, though far behind the real culture vulture in the game, Arabia. Any town we took from Cleopatra would fly right back into her welcoming arms, probably before we even got the assault troops out of there. The second problem is the location of her capital smack dab in the middle of the island, wide open on all four sides, with a river on the side closest to us. Kyoto on the other hand is only one tile off the coast, has marsh and forest on two sides as a defensive bonus for assault troops, and does not have a river on the side closest to our attackers. With Edo in our hands we sail up the coast, through the canal and can hit Kyoto from both land and sea. Finally, Cleopatra is our friend and research partner. With her help we can remain in the tech lead. Without her we will be depnding on the other more ignorant devils out there. who are about as useless as teats on a boar, with the possible exception of the Arabs.

Besides, those two towns on the peninsula would make nice additions to the empire and give us short-cut access to the other sea.

Egypt will be there when the time comes. Odense shall be avenged.

Leo's Workshop will also be handy. With any luck we will pull an SGL in this set. I am going to keep the bunsen burners flaring brightly as we could use the SGL and we need trade bait for the knowledge leading to Astronomy and Navigation. Berzerk armies become most useful when we have caravels and then galleons. We are three techs away from caravels and another three from galleons.

The GA has until 690Ad to run, so it will not end on this set.

Objectives then will be to build boats, berserks to fill them, keep the scientists employed, finish the city improvements needed for cash flow and contentment (marketplaces and courthouses).

Egypt learns Chivalry and starts Knights Templar.

1-560

Aztecs start SunT's

Arabs buy Chivalry from Egypt and start KnightsT(?).

2-570
Sell Egypt Invention for Theology, 82g +30gpt. Rather than going to war with Egypt it just makes sense to take all her money and hope she researches things we have not. This way we get the technology and the money.

Aztecs learn Invention and start Leo's.

3-590
Sign an RoP with Cleo and start two armies (2 Berzerks and 1 Pike in each) plus some mounted scouts across her territory towards Edo.

4-600
Monte spots our galley and tries to extort Monotheism from us. Turn him down flat.
Egypt and Cathage sign a peace treaty.
Egyptians start Sistine's

610-630
Marching towards Japan

8-630
In position to declare on Japan.

Call up Cleo and buy Chivalry from her for 40gpt as I want her goodwill for the next 20 tunrs and I want to be more valuable to her than Japan.

9-640
Call up Toku and suggest he donate Republic to us for continued friendship. He demurs, so declare war.

Shimoneski on the peninsula falls to amphibious assault and two pikes from Chicago move out to form a garrison. Three boatlaods of 'zerks move on to Matsuyama.

Clepatra will join against the Japanese for Incense. Done.

10-650
Matsuyama falls to two flawless zerk assaults and one promotion.
Edo falls after three assaults by the armies. One army takes heavy casualties.

With the capture of Matsuyama and Edo we have canal access to the sea on the other side of the peninsula and the bay separating the two halves of Japan. Pikes are building in Chicago to provide garrisons for the captured towns and can travel either by road or galley up the coast.

Nagoya on the peninsula should be our next target (silks and a harbor).

We have 21 Berzerks, most of them on boats.

There is a settler and guards moving through Egpyt to help us colonize the Japanese lands. There is a nice little spot on a point due south of Edo that would make a nice landing for us, and give us a sail out and attack spot against Hieraconoplis when the time comes.

Odense will not be forgotten....

Bergen, I think, is building the Heroic Epic.

Roster check

Bede - removing seaweed from his teeth with a war axe.
Alerum <== up
SolarKnight - on deck
JB
SmellinCoffee

SolarKnight

Jun 27, 2004, 04:56 PM

Sorry, had a busy weekend, just started a new job will be able to play my next turnset

jb1964

Jun 27, 2004, 09:04 PM

Bede,

How was the sushi? Are you going to share w/ Cleo?

Nice set of turns. I like having Cleo as a research partner, for now.

alerum68

Jun 27, 2004, 10:22 PM

Good summary on your reasoning on attacking Japan over Egypt. Well thought out... made a believer out of me!

Question about mixing Pikes with Zerks... Now, this is just for my information, but I thought it was bad to mix types... I understand it gives the army much more defense, but do we loose anything in the process? Just questioning for my education.:)

Now, I've noticed you've played several games with 'zerks alright... any advice before I jump into this one? I'm just planning on attack as many cities from the sea as I can... then moving the boats with injured units out of Japan's culture to heal the units. Then when we control at least 1 town, will just land as many units as I can. This is gonna be fun... oh yeah, "Got it!"

Say a prayer for us Heathens, Brother Bede, as we march towards the gates of Valhalla! (Edo too)

Bede

Jun 27, 2004, 10:42 PM

Question about mixing Pikes with Zerks... Now, this is just for my information, but I thought it was bad to mix types... I understand it gives the army much more defense, but do we loose anything in the process? Just questioning for my education.:)

It reduces the attack value of the army to mix types with the same movement value but different attack values, but...'zerks have an overwhelming attack value for their time, defensive bombard, but low defense relative to potential attackers, so, if you are going to use them on land you want to have at least one element to absorb any attacks... at least that has worked for before.

Now, I've noticed you've played several games with 'zerks alright... any advice before I jump into this one? I'm just planning on attack as many cities from the sea as I can... then moving the boats with injured units out of Japan's culture to heal the units. Then when we control at least 1 town, will just land as many units as I can.

Take the cities one at a time. As you get closer to the capitol the defense will become stiffer. Four to eight zerks will do the job against spears, remember Toku has no iron, so no pikemen, swords or samurai. The town on the peninsula west of Edo should fall easily and I think there are pikes in a boat on their way up the coast, so to make it easy, take the town, then hustle an army from Edo down to cover any wounded on land, land the pikes, load the wounded into the pike boat and hustle back to Edo.Keep moving the boats with healthy zerks towards the next objective. The key here is the speed available with sea movement across hostile territory so keep the tempo up 'till you run out of healthy attackers, then stop to catch your breath.

Above all, do not expose 'zerks without defenders to land attack without some terrain defensive bonus, like hills trees or mountains.

This is gonna be fun... oh yeah, "Got it!"

Say a prayer for us Heathens, Brother Bede, as we march towards the gates of Valhalla! (Edo too)

I think I am going to offer a prayer for the repose of the soul of the Japanese, instead. :ninja:

Meanwhile I am on the edge of my seat....

Smellincoffee

Jun 28, 2004, 12:08 AM

Well, maybe all of the improvements Cleo builds in our city won't be removed when we take the cities.

jb1964

Jun 28, 2004, 08:21 AM

This is bringing back some memories for a Swede who graduated from a high school (20+ years ago) where we were the Vikings and our yearbook was the Valhalla. However, none of those memories included wanting to slaughter Egyptians. I would have liked to throttle a lab partner or two but that was the extent of the violent impulses. Again, keeping Cleo around as our lab partner, for now, is a great idea.

Targeting Japan while they lacked iron was a good catch. Seems obvious now but it didn’t occur to me.

Combining a pike w/ the zerks seemed wrong but not when you look at their defense. This way you get a defender that keeps up.

alerum68

Jun 29, 2004, 12:37 AM

Turn 0 (650AD)
Start off by doing a little MMing. Everyone misses things when they're knee deep in Sushi.
Alright, so brother Bede didn't miss much. Was able to shave a turn off the Heroic Epic without slowing the 'zerk in Copenhagen.... shave a turn off a few other misc builds by swapping things around for a turn, nothing major. No trades on the table... alright, now it's time to think war.
Move one of our zerks armies a bit to bust some fog.

IBT
coulple of archers enter Edo's sphere of culture.
Copenhagen Zerk => Sun Tzu's art of war. Due in 34, so it's vetoable.
Tromso Couthourse => zerk
Hammerfest worker => worker

Turn 1(660AD)
Vet horse vs Reg archer = We win, promote to Elite and return to Edo.
MM Copenhagen to drop the build from 34 to 29... stops growth this way though, so the next leader can keep or change it.
Think about this some more... (was working on it last night too) And decide that after Education that I'm going to turn research down to 10%, or I may even hire a sci-guy.
Move troops toward Nagoya... they're going to be the next to fall.

IBT
Archer takes out one of our Horseman in Edo. They're on a tile that I can't retreat from so was a bit leary of taking them out. I'm going to have to use the Army to finish them off.
Reykjavik pikeman => pikeman
Oslo Courthouse => zerk
Alesund pikeman = > zerk

Turn 2 (670AD)
Upgrade our last 2 archers
Vet Archer vs barb horse = Win, gaining 25 gold from camp. 1 dam
Pillaging army cuts off Japans Spices.

*** Nagoya *** Naval assult!
Vet zerk vs reg spear = we win, 1 dam, promote elite.
Elite zerk vs reg spear = We win, no damage.
Nagoya is ours.

zerk army vs reg archer near edo = 1 damage.
repeat but vet archer = we win no dam
Lovely! Edo acts as a canal city, allowing us to get to Fima with our boats.
Oh yeah, Nagoya has a harbor, as well as claiming a source of silks... I can now MM the cities, and maybe drop the luxury tax.:)
Nope, can't drop the lux tax until I get a defender into Trondheim next turn. Then we can enjoy a tax free world.;)

IBT
Japan wants to talk... Sorry, Loki don't talk to the likes of you...
a whole bunch of workers enters Yokohama.
:boggle: Egypt declares on the Celts... wonder how long before she asks us to join in her fight.

Trondheim galley > Galley
birka galley > galley
Molde marketplace > zerk
Take the zerk out of Nagoya. Afraid of flip risk, and for some reason I don't expect much of a counter attack on this side of Japan.... Bede didn't point it out, but him taking Edo first cut Japan in half.

Turn 3 (680AD)
What's this? Hakodate is founded off our coastline. I think I'll leave it be and request if for peace.
Nothing else happens.

IBT
Reykjavik Pikeman = > pikeman
Chicago Pikeman = > zerk
Karasjok Library => marketplace
Haugesund harbor => galley
sarpborg worker => Worker
These names are worse then Korea or Iroquios.

Turn 4 (690AD)
*** Kagoshima ***
Elite zerk vs reg spear => We win... just a thought... if we generate a leader at sea, and there's no room on a ship, what hapens.
vet zerk vs reg spear => we win, loose 2 hps, and promote.
Kagoshima is ours... can't belive how easy this is going... what will we do when we have to make landfall? (sigh) Talk about Blitzkrieg....
*** Osaka***
zerk army vs reg spear = 1 dam, we win.
repeat = 1 dam, we win.
second zerk army vs reg spear = we win, no damage. Osaka is ours. Move the army out. Have a feeling this city is going to flip... is size 8.
Trade the Aztecs their worker for 91 gold.

IBT
Our Golden Age Ends.... thought I had 1 more turn.:(
we're -39gpt, and have 1 gold in the bank. Wow, that was close.
Because the GA ended, we didn't pull Education that time. Will get it next turn. +36gpt.

Turn 5 (700AD)
Capture japanese worker near kagoshima.
Yokohama has culture, I can see it's 21 tile borders... It's ours.;)

*** Yokohama ***
vet zerk vs reg spear = we win, 1 dam, become elite.
vet zerk vs reg spear = we win, 1 dam.
Yokhama is ours.
Change haugesund from galley to courthouse.

IBT
alot of japanese workers move ne... I want that stack, but it's not worth the risk.
Education comes in. Min research towards Astronomy. takes 50 turns, but truthfully we don't even need to use sea squares... will make it somewhat quicker, but it's not needed. 4300 gold in our pocket is worth it, considering I don't see us a need to research much beyond astronomy. If we want Magnetism, it'll take another 100 turns unless we can to start researching on max again.
Trondheim Galley => Galley
Aztecs are building Knights Templar. Still no news on anyone building Sun Tzu. Think we have a chance to claim that one. Free baracks rock!

Turn 6 (710AD)
*** Sapporo ***
vet zerk vs reg spear = we win 3 dam! Wow.
Taking a chance here... 4hp elite zerk vs reg spear = We win, no dam.
Sapporo is ours, along with 1 worker... there are 5 workers to the west. I'm going to risk a zerk, and a galley to try and claim those workers. It's a fair trade IMHO, and I'm scared they may flee... besides, this ship has reached the last japanese city in this direction, and probably won't do much until the next war. :hammer:

IBT

Turn 7(720AD)
Change Honningsvag from Library to Courthouse.
Change Edo's taxman to sci-guy. This keeps sci the same, but brings GPT up from 96 to 115.:)
Only downside is when they shrink down, we'll loose it... so keep a close eye on it.
Toku will give us Peace for one of his small cities. No way. All or nothing.

IBT
Reykjavik pikeman => pikeman
Birka galley = > galley

Turn 8 (730AD)
*** Kyoto!!! ***
Elite Zerk vs reg spear = we win, no damage
4hp Elite zerk vs reg spear = we win, 2 damage
vet zerk vs reg spear = we win, 3 dam!!
vet zerk vs reg spear = We win, 2 dam
Kyoto is ours! and this as well

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/rw_kyoto_GW.JPG

We didn't have any walls to sell, so no gain in gold, but will hurt them, and help us.;)
We don't have any more naval attacks... from this point on we're just going to have to attack by land.
change Reykjavik from pikeman to zerk.

IBT
LOL! Jap archer flees from our 2 armies.
Oslo zerk => zerk
aarhus courthouse => zerk
Sapporo riots because of the war.
Egypt complete Knights Templar in Heliopolis.
Arabs switch to Sistine Chapel.

Turn 9 (740AD)
2hp vet zerk demolishes reg archer, taking no damage. These guys are amazing... bloodlust anyone?

IBT
archer attacks our zerk, and dies, bringing us to 1hp. the only thing that saved us was the zerk army well positioned to do a ZoC bombardment.
Washington Library => zerk
Alesund zerk => zerk
Sapparo restores order.

Turn 9 (740)
SOmehow my turns got messed up... to lazy to find the problem, so just giong to keep going like this. Will finish at 750.
Oh yeah, here it goes... going to pop a goodie hut! (mosh) Bring on the barbs! Just a map of land we pretty much knew... did bust a few tiles of fog though.

*** Satsuma ***
army vs reg spear = we win, no damage

*** Tokyo ***
Army vs reg spear = We win 1 dam
repeat = we win, and 1 unit promotes inside the army to elite.

IBT
see some aztec and arabian movement.
Trondheim galley => galley
Edo worker > worker = quell a resister.
Vadso library => barracks
Shimnoske and Sapparo resistance ends.
batsfjord harbor => worker this city is just to corrupt to be of use for anything else.
Japan starts Sun Tzu... hehehe... in which city?

Turn 10 (750AD)
*** Satsuma ***
8 hp zerk army vs reg spear = we win no dam
repeat = we win, losing 3 dam and claiming the city, but the army stops in Satsuma. Hope it won't flip, but it was worth it even if it does.:p We have enough elites to make another one fairly soon.

*** Tokoyo ***
vet zerk vs reg spear = we win, 2 dam and promote.
army vs reg separ = We win, no dam and claim the city with a ton of workers.

Summary and notes:
I gashed my thumb open, so it's a pain to alt-tab... y'all better apprecate the pain I went through.

I didn't take it, but Toku will give us peace for his last 2 cities, but that will leave him with 1. The 2 cities he will get are on islands... in fact, I think all three are. I don't know where his capitol is, and one of the 2 cities is on an island close to us. I think it may be worth taking peace and coming back for him later. Will end the resitance and allow us to move on to bigger and better things.
Our core is almost 100% complete. We can either send our worker core towards the east and improve the old american lands, or else we can send them north to the new japanese lands. Think we should make a choice on this one, and not just let it fly to chance.
Keep building workers and starving down Japanese cities.
The main strentgh of the zerk, being able to attack from boats very rapidly is almost gone for us now.
I know Hakodate is just south of our penisula, but Ise and their capitol is unknown to me. It's somewhere north in the dog is the best I can determine.... looks like they had kind of a rough start and didn't build quick enough, lossing some land close to them and had to spread out.

Didn't say anything before because I didn't want to jinx it... but I didn't have a single loss in battle... not one.:) Not sure if the Viks could be called the best civ in the game, but the zerk sure deserves the title of the best UU. I've never gone almost a complete war without lossing a single unit...

Here's the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1_750AD.SAV)

alerum68

Jun 29, 2004, 12:51 AM

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/rw_toku_terms.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW_Busting_fog.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW_core_750AD.JPG

Bede
Alerum <== Just played
JB <== Is up again
SmellinCoffee <== On deck

Smellincoffee

Jun 29, 2004, 03:32 AM

Nice job- those Beserkers really tear up medieval defenses. Now I know why they tend to own games if they go to war in the middle ages. :lol:

I find it odd that the AI hasn't settled that island off Giza yet. It must be completely devoid of resources.

Bede

Jun 29, 2004, 06:59 AM

Fine style, fine style...

Well done.

Make peace with Toku for two cities while the captured towns still have enough pop to whip, let the zerks heal, whip some defense into the new towns, then take on Carthage.

On research: How's our lab partner doing? If she didn't learn anything new recently we may want to turn up the heat on the scientists again. We need caravels and then galleons, and maybe some frigates. Cash is only good for trading or unit upgrades in this government so building a big reserve just makes us a bigger target.

jb1964

Jun 29, 2004, 05:12 PM

Got it.

Looks like all is going well.

Care to give me input on where to send the worker forces as suggested in the thread?

Bede

Jun 29, 2004, 06:16 PM

First take a look at the towns around Tromso. Any town with more than 12fpt should have some irrigation replaced with mines to boost production. Then into the American lands to trim the terrain there. You may have to irrigate up through the tundra to get water up there. Optimum population for our govrenemtn type is 6, so figure it from there.

Only when the homeland is trimmed properly should we move workers to the Japanese lands as they will be hopelessly corrupt for some time.

Use the whip liberally(?) in Japan to cut the Japanese population. Use short rushes if needed (for thirty shields choose a 20 shield item and whip that, then produce the last ten). Your best protection against flips to Egypt is going to be courthouses, then culture.

alerum68

Jun 29, 2004, 08:20 PM

Use the whip liberally(?) in Japan to cut the Japanese population. Use short rushes if needed (for thirty shields choose a 20 shield item and whip that, then produce the last ten). Your best protection against flips to Egypt is going to be courthouses, then culture.

If your not sure how to whip like Bede is describing, ask and ye shall recieve.;) is a bit harder for us because I normally use Longbowman to be our 20 shield marker, but I think Spearman should work just fine.

Sir Bugsy

Jun 29, 2004, 10:12 PM

OK alerum. Sign me up. :salute:

alerum68

Jun 29, 2004, 10:21 PM

SK hasn't posted yet, but he requested to be dropped from this SG since he has to much going ion IRL, and he had commitments to other SGs before this one. I figured we needed to find a replacement, and since I sponsered the team I decided to ask someone to join in SKs place... I doubt anyone will object for Bugsy to join us?;)
:worship: :rockon: :viking:
Current Rooster:

Alerum
Bede
JB <== Is up
SmellinCoffee <== On deck
Sir Bugsy

Hope the turn order is okay for everyone. If anyone wants to change it, now would be the perfect time...:)

Smellincoffee

Jun 29, 2004, 10:39 PM

Welcome to the team, Bugsy! :)

Sir Bugsy

Jun 30, 2004, 10:06 AM

Zerks are probably the most powerful unit relative to their age in the game. You guys have been playing them just the way they should. The amphibious assault is huge at this stage, plus you can get counter attacked if you are sitting in a boat. :viking: <= need to use this smilie more for this game.

alerum68

Jun 30, 2004, 02:52 PM

Actually it's widely believed that vikings never had horns on their helmets.:p But that's beside the point... The fact is, that the zerk, because of its timing can ensure a conquest victory before any other units are made... I didn't loose 1 zerk battle, and that's including a 2hp vet taking a healty spear in a city.

jb1964

Jun 30, 2004, 03:55 PM

Blah, blah, blah....

Placeholder for something important.

Bede

Jun 30, 2004, 08:23 PM

@alerum,

roster suggestion:

slot yourself after Bugs and I'll pick it up from there.

comment on the use of 'zerks:

It is the equivalent of a tank when on a boat, but practically useless as a foot slogger.

Delivering zerks in four move galleys is even more deadly than the cavalry on land when you consider the relative strength of the defenders. Nobody but nobody has a defender with a value greater than 3 this early in the middle ages. The only reason I built the zerk armies was to have a fast(er) moving land force for pillaging and garrison duty that was not vulnerable to the opponent's fast moving unit. Use the horses for scouting ahead of the armies and never move the armies within two or three tiles of an invisible land area.

Also, been rethinking the research priorities: slow it down!! We need to keep the effectiveness of our zerks as long as possible. The only nation showing any research capability at all is Egypt, so we need to take whatever steps are necessary to keep her pace down: take all her money, keep her at war with somebody, anybody, everybody, preferably as far from our homeland as possible..and not our chosen target.

alerum68

Jun 30, 2004, 10:44 PM

Alerum
Bede
JB <== Is up
SmellinCoffee <== On deck
Sir Bugsy

Sound good?

As for the use of the armies, I didn't want to pillage to much because we were taking units at such a fast rate, I figured it would be our improvements soon enough anyway. Mainly used them to cut the road between us and them to give killing zones.

I don't know how many horseman we have.:p

jb1964

Jul 01, 2004, 08:08 AM

Only have done a pre-flight so far. Will play tonight.

Just finished up my turn on two other SG's.

jb1964

Jul 01, 2004, 08:58 AM

The amphibious assault is huge at this stage, plus you can get counter attacked if you are sitting in a boat.

I assume you mean to say that you can't get counter attacked sitting in a boat? :viking:

What is the threat on the water? Loosing a galley, or two, of Zerks would ruin my whole day.

Sir Bugsy

Jul 01, 2004, 09:52 AM

Brother Bede is correct as always. We need to keep the Zerk window open as long as possible. The slower the research the better for us. We'll be walking a fine line between keeping the research slow and staying caught up. I'd say min or no research to save money for purchases would be best. I would also minimize technology sales.

jb1964

Jul 01, 2004, 11:56 AM

OK, I'm on board with the slow tech approach. I'll sell what I can sell to Cleo or see if I can use it coax her into a war with a secondary target.

Peace w/ Japan for the two cities is fine but taking the last one shouldn't be a chore. Either way we need a new set of necks for our Zerks.

Suggestions?

Egypt - Can't fight herself
Arab - ?
Aztecs - ?
Celts - ?
Cathage - Seems like a good choice since they share the land mass.
Japanese - Done that
American - Done that also

Sir Bugsy

Jul 01, 2004, 12:24 PM

Forgive a new guy any mistakes here, but why don't we want to lop off Egyptian heads next?
1. This will slow down their research.
2. They have a lot of coastal cities that will make wonderful targets for our zerks.
3. Carthage doesn't have as many coastal cities and when we did go to war with Cleo we would have two fronts to fight.

jb1964

Jul 01, 2004, 12:46 PM

We were interested in keeping Cleo around as a research partner, however, if we're more interested in keeping the pace of research slow, and she's the leader, then you have a good point.

The war with Cathage was one we would start but only observe.

Let's think this one more level down. We want to slow research to keep the Zerk advantage. That is, avoid the production of muskets, rifles, infantry, etc. If we drag Cleo into supporting a war effort then another civ will soon take her place as leader. Do we want to start a global war to send everyone down a rathole?

alerum68

Jul 01, 2004, 01:56 PM

We do run into the problem if going to war with the world, and the war coming to us at 1 time. No, our best bet is to find our strongest oppoent, and take them down to next, then go to the next strongest, until we claim the world... no unit can match our zerks, so only sheer numbers will overwhelm us... we don't seem to have anyone with larger numbers then we have, so we don't have much worries... the only reason I'd see for not taking on Egypt quiet yet is to ensure our core can keep producing units to take over the world instead of having to defend the motherland.

Smellincoffee

Jul 01, 2004, 02:40 PM

We attack with Beserks and we won't need to worry about defense. The AI will be too busy trying to duck.

alerum68

Jul 01, 2004, 02:50 PM

That's true to a point, but since the AI can only do land based assults with any chance of claiming a city, and never will launch a good beach head landing, I suggest we save Egypt for last, maybe having her for an Ally until the very end... Egypt and the Norse taking on the world until it's just them left... of course, we all know how this will end... ;)

jb1964

Jul 01, 2004, 02:52 PM

OK, I'll finish off the Japanese and then we can line up for the next bigest kid on the block. In the mean time I'll try and find a way to get Cleo to empty her coffers.

alerum68

Jul 01, 2004, 02:55 PM

try and see if you can trade a luxury for GPT. GPT will slow her research rate while taking her gold will only prevent her from upgrading units.

Smellincoffee

Jul 01, 2004, 07:05 PM

Can't we just start one little war with Cleo? Get Odense back? ;)

Bede

Jul 01, 2004, 07:10 PM

I learned something in GOTM32 that may be of value here.

Thinking to slow down the research pace on the other continent I sold the next biggest kid on the block one each of all my luxes (I was only missing two, I think) for something in the neighborhood of 400gpt. With the added luxuries the cities became so productive, that the tech pace actually increased from one every 12 or so to one every six and the other nation was earning over 100gpt. So I ended up using the added income to finance technology theft, not the safest thing to do with a local neighbor!!, but in this case the counter party was on the other side of the world. I spent the next 20 turns running my research pace as fast as possible down the side of the tree not being worked by the other guys, and when the time came and the lux deals expired, sold my tech and a resource instead for all the treasury and about half the gpt. The other nation's economy collapsed in a heap, the tech pace slowed to a crawl and the other guy's gpt never got above 10 for the next 20 turns. So, the conclusion is, if you want to slow the pace, sell resources not luxes. The AI will use the resources to build military, especially if they are at war, thereby costing them more gpt rather than generating it...

I am also coming more and more to Bugsy's way of thinking here. Take Egpyt's caostal towns, wreck her access to trade and resources, make her a client state, only able to trade with us. Then move on the other parts of the world.

Sorry to keep changing my focus here, but my 4 mile daily walk gives me lots of time to ponder alternatives. I think it was Harry Truman who wished all economists were born one handed for then they would never be able to say "On the other hand.....

jb1964

Jul 01, 2004, 11:31 PM

Pre turn, Turn 190, 750 AD – Thinking of changing Heroic Epic to a worker. We have deals coming out the wazoo w/ Cleo so I’ll let the next player take her cities off her hands. Only trade to Cleo is Gunpowder and that’s not going to happen. She’s already crossing swords w/ the Celts so her hands are plenty full. Hmmmm, Aztecs and the Carthaginians have plenty of tasty looking coastal cities. Can’t find the other Japanese cities but making peace w/ them means breaking a deal w/ Cleo. That’s not going to happen either.

Top cities are making Sun Tzu’s and Heroic Epic. The next dozen or so are pumping Zerks. The rest are working on infrastructure and workers. Looks good to me.

Our forces are strong compared to all others. Our people appear quite happy.

1, Turn 191, 710 AD – A few Japanese cities riot and I toss them a clown. Thinking about going after Hannibal. I don’t like the way he looks. I declare on Carthage. My first attack results in two dead Zerks with zero kills. I feel ill.

Egypt signed a peace treaty w/ Japan breaking our argreement.

2,3,4, Turns 192-4, 770-790 AD – Fight, build, etc. Former Japanese cities not fairing too well with our occupation. We take Hakodate from Japan and 4 Cartheginian cities. HE is built in Bergen and I switch over to more zerk production.

5, Turn 195, 800 AD – Both Cleo and Brennus would like our help in slaughtering each other. I decline. Cleo will give us big bucks for Chemistry but I decline in the name of slow research. Arabia must have SoZ because I see a number of AC running about. We might consider how to kill off a civ w/ mounted units.

Science still at minimum. No other civ has a tech to trade us other than Republic.

Taking a break for the night.

Input more than welcome.

alerum68

Jul 02, 2004, 01:41 AM

Best way to take out fast movers is to set it up so they move into mountians, hills, jungles... something that will bog them down enough for us to wipe them out, 1 on 1. There is no other trick. Egypt broke the deal? We should make peace with Japan now, so we can concentrate on Carthage.

jb1964

Jul 02, 2004, 08:18 AM

I’m at work right now. Will take turns 6-10 tonight.

I can't even see the other two Japanese cities so they're getting zero attention. I imagine I'll run into them as I press into Carthaginian territory with the armies. Hakadote was fortified with a single spear so I'm not expecting much resistance, which is futile (note Borg cube).

We’re at turn 176 in an Emperor game. We have the strongest army, parity or a slight lead in tech, and a modest sum in the bank. A month ago I would have never thought I could have been a part, however slight, of such a feat. Well done team.

jb1964

Jul 02, 2004, 05:24 PM

Turns 6 through 10.

Well, Cleo got out of the war w/ Brennus and a turn later declared war on the Aztecs. I wonder what it is she’s trying to accomplish. (I later find that both sides in this war are without iron. See trade comments below)

The Arabs are not at war with anyone but are moving a serious amount of units in the North. I accidentally left Cadiz undefended and there are 7 Arab units within our boarders. I guess with or without defense they could take it if they wish.

Our military is still strong compared to all.

We’re without saltpeter but there’s some just North of Theveste in Carthaginian territory. And scanning the open territory near our new cities there does not seem to be any that can be colonized. The Egyptians and Aztecs both have an excess saltpeter. One of Cleo’s is next to Nara.

I made peace with Japan getting Ise and Republic in the exchange. The last Jananese city is just South of Ise, North of the Egyptian territory.

Both Leo’s and Sistine are being worked. Sun Tzu’s is being worked by just about everyone.

Abu will buy an excess wine for 5gpt.

Hmmmm, Aztecs will trade saltpeter for Iron straight up. If I give him iron then he can beat up Cleo more effectively. Let see what other deals are out there and come back to this one. The Celts are of no value. Goodness, Cleo does not have iron either and will give us saltpeter and 18gpt. If we claim our own saltpeter, which is not a problem then Cleo will come up to 20gpt. There is an iron East of Leptis Minor that can be claimed so we can sell to both sides.

We are leading in population and land owned. We’re sucking wind in culture. We’re leading in the overall world ranking, 958 to the second place Arabs at 906.

The save, 850 AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1_850AD.SAV)

alerum68

Jul 02, 2004, 06:28 PM

Looking good JB. Just keep bringing the axe to the farmer...

roster:
Alerum
Bede
JB <== Just played
SmellinCoffee <== Is up
Sir Bugsy <== On Deck

Bede

Jul 02, 2004, 07:00 PM

:thumbsup: :goodjob:

I really like the idea of selling iron to the Celts and the Egyptians and wouldn't buy saltpeter from anybody if there is a handy source, even if not connected. As long as Cleo stays at war with somebody else she'll be spending her gold on troops and logistics and not on science...

Might want to do a little investigation of the Arabs, just to find out what they are up to and what they have. (Clean the map of everything but borders and improvements, then scroll carefuly through it noting things like resource locations).

On the usefulness of culture in this game...I think it was Dorothy Parker who said, "You can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think", and we have bigger axes.

jb1964

Jul 02, 2004, 07:32 PM

Pictures...

BTW, the whore comment made both me and my dad LOL. :)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/rw_jb1.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/rw_jb2.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/rw_jb3.jpg

jb1964

Jul 02, 2004, 07:38 PM

BTW, I didn't execute any of the deals I mentioned in my post so the next player can take input from the team and proceed as desired.

I didn't rework any of the tiles around the homeland to bump up sheilds in size 6 cities. I sent most of the workers SE to throw down roads in the former American territories.

Still buiding Sun Tzu's with top flight sities making a mix of Zerks and Pikes.

Consider all production orders as placeholders.

alerum68

Jul 02, 2004, 08:23 PM

So, who thinks they turn this into a world war with everyone killing everyone else? That would be the best bet for us...

Smellincoffee

Jul 03, 2004, 02:56 PM

Entertaining an old friend today; will pick up and play tomorrow.

SolarKnight

Jul 04, 2004, 06:54 PM

Just thought I would apologise for my absence, as alerum has said, I have had a very eventful couple of months and I had too many SG commitments to handle, so I had to drop out of this game, see everyone around on the board and other SGs.

Good Luck guys.

SK

alerum68

Jul 06, 2004, 09:32 AM

Smellincoffee, you still entertaining that old friend?;) Is there any news on the turns?

Smellincoffee

Jul 06, 2004, 01:29 PM

Uh...my only excuse is...

http://www.mafia-game.com

Everytime I play part of the set, I get anxious to return to my cab. :lol: Will post report today. ;)

Smellincoffee

Jul 06, 2004, 11:51 PM

Today is a relative term. Quick update to let you know what's up: Osaka flipped, Arabian troops marching into conquered Japan and in posistion to seize our conquests.

I get the fun sets. Go me.

alerum68

Jul 07, 2004, 09:14 PM

SC, you going to post your turn set? Is day 5 now.

Smellincoffee

Jul 07, 2004, 10:57 PM

I've JUST been able to get on the computer. :( Go ahead and skip me. :(

Sir Bugsy

Jul 07, 2004, 11:14 PM

:confused: I thought you had played a portion of the turns and Osaka flipped? At least post what you have.

alerum68

Jul 08, 2004, 12:16 AM

Hurry up and post it please. I think Mafia can wait the 20 minutes to post the rest of your turns.

Smellincoffee

Jul 08, 2004, 01:44 AM

I haven't touched Mafia. :p

Inherited Turn- 850 AD
http://img68.photobucket.com/albums/v207/Smellincoffee/reasontoworry.jpg
Notice the large Arabian army outside of Cadiz. In the interturn, Cleopatra tries to cancel our spices, so I renegotiate. We'll play 3 GPT more, but they're still ours. Osaka flips.

Turn 1- 860 AD:
We capture Leptis Magna and Nora. I move the northern Army unit into the undefended city the Arabians are surrounding.

Turn 2- 870 AD
Hannibal requests a peace treaty. I assume the goal of this war is to obliterate the Carthaginians, so I deny his request. The Arabian army moves. Most of it is concentrated at Leptis Minor- either these guys are on their way to someone, or they're moving to less-defended targets- such as Satsuma and Rusicade. Also, one crusader and two longbowmen are heading in the gneral direction of Hadrumetum. A Carthaginian MDI/settler pair is near Leptis Magna, so we kill them and gain two slaves.

Turn 3- 880 AD
Arabians and Egyptians continue to move past our cities. It'd be funny if they were moving to attack each other. Carthage has a lot of cities left, and he's not aware of his inevitable defeat. While one of our beserks kills an MDI guarding the Carthaginian border, we discover the great city of Carthage. I'm
guessing it has four-eight defenders.

http://img68.photobucket.com/albums/v207/Smellincoffee/hailcarthage.jpg

Turn 4- 890
Ah, the Egpytians were heading for the Aztecs, as we see them engage several Aztec settler pairs. But the Arabian objective is still in doubt.

Turn 5- 900 AD
The Arabian army is turning back toward the north. I think this may be due to me weakening the garrisons of Cadiz and Theveste due to my plans for Oea, which will grant us the mighty gift of Saltpeter.

Turn 6- 910 AD
Raze a barbarian encampment, gain 25 gold. We capture Oea.

Turn 7- 920 AD
Approach Utica and Carthage.

Turn 8- 930 AD
Carthage captured. One loss. Utica captured. No losses.

Turn 9- 940 AD
The Treaty of Thebes is signed, ending the Egyptian-Aztec war. We lose a Beserker probe near Cirta. Arabs complete Sun Tzu's Art of War.

Turn 10 - 950 AD
Arabians and Egyptians heading for home. We've got troops heading for Carthage. A four-man scouting party discovers Hippo, the new Carthaginian capitol. Next player will probably be able to take it; not much those four Beserkers can't handle.

http://img68.photobucket.com/albums/v207/Smellincoffee/troopsorganizing.jpg

I apologize for the long delay; once I get into a new game I REALLY get into it.

Cathargo delende est! (or something to that effect).

Bede

Jul 08, 2004, 06:38 AM

Better late than never, and good news is always welcome.

What's the tech positon?

Any trades on the table?

Where did Osaka flip, back to Japan?

jb1964

Jul 08, 2004, 07:35 AM

Smelling, what graphic mods are you using?

For that matter, what are the favorite mods of the team?

Bede

Jul 08, 2004, 07:37 AM

I have been a big fan of SnOOpy's but recently switched to warpstorm's watercolor becasue of the greater contrast.

Sir Bugsy

Jul 08, 2004, 09:47 AM

I've got the game. I use just the straight graphics that Firaxis provides. I'm a pretty boring guy. The only mod I use is the smilie mod for F1.

alerum68

Jul 08, 2004, 12:47 PM

I use Snoopy... Swear by it now in fact. I've seen the watercolor one, and it does have good contrast, but just isn't for me. I've never liked watercolor paintings.... I also use the smiley face mod, but I think that's it. One thing that SmellinCoffee likes to use is the Multi-Unit figures... to each their own.;) Here's the turn order.

Current Roster:

Alerum<== On Deck
Bede
JB
SmellinCoffee <== Just played
Sir Bugsy <== Is up

Bugsy go ahead and take your time on the preturn and get the feeling of hwo things are set up now. I probably won't be able to play until Weds of next week, so if it takes you the full 72 to get to it, that's fine.;) At least you'll get to play before we finish this one, because I feel it is close.... And, even though this has been a great game, I'll be glad to have EVERYTHING up to 1.22.

jb1964

Jul 08, 2004, 01:02 PM

I had a mod on my last comp that kept track tech trades, gold, etc. for the AI's. It was easier to use than to cycle through everyone on F4 each turn. I would like for it to chart the AI's treasury.

Sir Bugsy

Jul 08, 2004, 05:53 PM

Is this being played in 1.15 or 1.22?

Edit - Got it figured out - 1.15

I was going to ask for a little more time to bring myself up to speed, since this is my first look at the game. Thanks Alerum

Smellincoffee

Jul 08, 2004, 07:14 PM

Better late than never, and good news is always welcome.

What's the tech positon?

Any trades on the table?

Where did Osaka flip, back to Japan?

We're still tied for first, no trades that I saw. Osaka flipped on the interturn between my inherited and the first turn of my set.

Smelling, what graphic mods are you using?

For that matter, what are the favorite mods of the team?
KevinAr18's color-corrected terrain, a few multi-figured units (assorted ancient era ones), Yurt's muddy flood plains, someone else's lush cities, someone else's replacements for goody huts, someone else's replacements for barbarian camps...and someone else's Star Trek advisors. :lol:

My prefrences is either that - my personal collage of mods- or Firaxis' winter tileset. I love it. :D

Sir Bugsy

Jul 08, 2004, 07:23 PM

Pre-flight – 950 AD – Set preferences. We can get a tech deal with Abu. We can get two cities from Hannibal for peace. Decide that neither one is a good idea.

Tokyo has five resisters and no garrision. Dudes, you have to put at least one military unit, the cheaper the better, into a city to break the resistance. Five workers won’t do it for you.

We have a Carthaginian archer threatening a slave. Bring an elite Zerk out and lop off his head.

Why are we building military units in cities without a barracks? Swap over former Japanese and Carthaginian cities to barracks. Too many to list. By the time I’m done, we have 22 barracks being built. We have some of our cities building military units without a barracks. A 20 shield investment is worth it.

Arabia is a cultural monster. We’ll have to raze and replace there.

I start starving some of our foreigners.

We’re in need of some serious MMing. Set up our cities with some nice round numbers. If you set up you cities to produce 7, 10 or 14 spt, you have nice production for a zerk. Cut off seven turns from the Leo’s build.

Our workers are performing some interesting tasks. Instead of roading and improving a BG or a cow, we’re chopping a jungle two tiles away.

So after two plus hours of study I am ready to go.

IBT – Three barracks and a zerk are built.

1. 960 AD – Hippo is captured at the cost of a regular zerk. Wish we had that extra hp on that dude. One resister.

Then I watch about thirty units on go to run across my screen. Dudes, go to orders are not cool in a SG. Additionally, they are not smart. What if I saw something that I wanted to send some units to. It would not be possible.

It looks like we’re going to send most of these go-to units across an unroaded Egypt, when we have galleys on the coast. Looks like at least one of those go-tos was headed towards the Osaka that we no longer own.

We are flush with cash and can’t spend any of it. We used feudalism in Go4 and I wasn’t thrilled with it. I guess I just like spending cash instead of whipping the populace. I investigate the Japanese capitol, just to find out where it is. We could set up to take out the Japanese in two turns once our peace deal is up.

We need some garrison type units in our new cities so I wake up so pikes in our core and send them northward.

Whip a spear in Ise, since a Carthaginian galley is approaching.

To be continued……

Bede

Jul 08, 2004, 09:13 PM

Feudalism was my idea, Bugs. I anticipated a big army, small towns and the need to "relocate foreigners" in a hurry, and wanted to get out of the Depsotism food production penalties and didn't want to pay inflated prices for Monarchy.

The extra cash can come in handy upgrading obsolete units, should we have any, hiring court jesters for the Baronen (war weariness in Feudalism is more of a problem than I remember), and buying allies, should we need any.

Sir Bugsy

Jul 08, 2004, 10:59 PM

Upgrading is a good idea. I think I will hold off until we find out if we have Leo's or not.

Please don't sound like I'm complaining (OK, a little complaining) this is going to be great. I've never been a big whip guy unless I had to. I'll watch for WW. Wth Zerks, I don't think we'll see a lot of casualities. I'll be moving some of our fleet over to the east side of Carthage.

jb1964

Jul 09, 2004, 10:44 AM

Bugs,

Why not take advantage of the RoP and roads to our North when galleys are not available rather than wait for the galleys to transport the troops? The path to the North takes us in a more direct path to the Carthaginian cities than could be had by dropping troops off on the western coast.

Moving some of the fleet to the East is a good idea.

When peace runs out w/ the Japanese kill them.

Smellincoffee

Jul 09, 2004, 12:38 PM

Sorry for the go-tos, Bugsy, didn't intend to use so many. I used them because the war was north, and so the orders were to march north, to that port with all of the ships. That's where the units were going when I got the game and so that's where I assumed they were going to be going throughout my game. If there's a go-to order going to Osaka...I didn't do it. Osaka flipped before I even began playing my turns. :lol:

Once again, I apologize. It won't happen again.

Sir Bugsy

Jul 09, 2004, 02:37 PM

@ JB – I’ve been roading in Egypt. Their road structure stinks. I used a combination of both to get units north.

1. 960 AD – Con’t - IBT – Build a zerk, a spear, two barracks.

2. 970 AD – Why are we planting a forest on a BG? Stop that guy. Whip a barracks in Carthage and Theveste. Change Hareid to a galley. We need an east coast fleet. Set up to take Sabratha next. Well I didn’t hunt down all the go-to and about five or six more units run hither and yonder.

IBT – Four barracks, a galley and a courthouse are built. The Celts build Leo’s. Switch Copenhagen over to Sistine.

3. 980 AD – Sabratha is captured without loss. Set up to take Cirta next. Whip a barracks at Hadrum. Spend 1080G upgrading 12 pikes. That’s indicative of how few barracks we have. I can now get three cities for peace with Hannibal.

IBT – Build a couple more barracks.

4. 990 AD – Capture Cirta with an elite Zerk and collect two slaves. The resident is happy to see us. Cleo now has Astronomy. Work a three-fer. Trade Chemistry for Banking with Cleo. Sell Chemistry to Abu for Banking & 56G. Metallurgy next.

IBT – Complete six barracks, a harbor three zerks

5. 1000 AD – Decide that Cop’s would eventually help us more than Sistine, so I swap Copenhagen over at a loss of 60 shields. Zerk army takes Saldae without loss. Hannibal will give us his remaining two cities for peace, so I take it. Just to find out where Hannibal’s remaining city is, I spend 28G to establish an embassy there. It is just on the north side of Egypt.

We have five turns of peace left with Tokugawa. I’m wondering whether I can get a boatload of zerks to Nagasaki to take out the Japanese.

IBT – Egypt declares on the Carthaginians. I guess that little gem was just too tempting for Cleo.
Cop’s is built. A couple of zerks, a couple of barracks and a court are built. The palace gets a west wing and the Arabs complete the Sistine Chapel. Good thing I swapped.

6. 1010 AD – Working and maneuvering.

IBT – Zerks and barracks. I start building a few knights so we’ll have something to upgrade to cavs.

7. 1020 AD – Whip a barracks in Tokyo.

IBT – The rampaging Egyptians have destroyed Carthage. Yeah, like they did it all by themselves. The Japanese may have a settler in a boat.

8. 1030 AD – Upgrade ten galleys for 300G.
9. 1040 AD - Upgrade two more galleys. Abu had Music Theory now and will sell it for 1400G, but I don’t make a deal.
10. 1050 AD – More working and Maneuvering. Whip a caravel in Leptis Magna and one in Hareid. You can load the one in Leptis up with Zerks and sail for Nagasaki.

After Action - We can load up some units and sail for Arabia. We will need to secure our boarders first. I think Arabia would be a next logical target. I’ve been sending workers into Egypt to improve the roads. No more regular units! I have some temple building up in Carthage to expand the boarders.

Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW,_1050_AD.SAV

Smellincoffee

Jul 09, 2004, 04:48 PM

2. 970 AD – Why are we planting a forest on a BG? Stop that guy

"N" is too close to "M", I guess. :lol:

alerum68

Jul 10, 2004, 01:58 AM

Looks like some good turns. I liked the tech trading... consider this my got it! Will play sometime tommorow evening.

alerum68

Jul 11, 2004, 01:02 AM

Turn 0 (1050AD)
humm... to many foreign citizens in our new towns. I'm going to practice some pop whipping! Let's see... 20 shields per a citizen...
Tokyo - starts at Temple, no way to rush it, cost to many citizens...
Change to Explorer, and rush 1 citizen...Switch to Midevil Infantry... 1 citizen, now 40 shields...
change to Temple... 1 citizen, 60 shields and we're at a complete temple. Tokyo is now at size 1 instead of size 4, so we can make it grow with Scandanavian citizens, and it has a temple to help prevent flipping. (cough) Sir Bugsy, you may want to borrow this for GK... I doubt you'll see much of the chance for this for a while over there.
Do the same thing for Utica... size 4, take it down to nothing to build a temple... this city was going to grow, with foreign citizen inside of it! That's a no no! Starve the city down is me moto.
Nagoya, do the same thing, but do it slightly differently, and watch this closely... everytime I do the pop whipping, I set our one native citizen to an entertainer... this causes the japanese citizens to be used up first, and our native worker will be the only one left.
Repeat in Kagosihma... I wish we had some larger cities... you can use Lib's next, then Marketplaces.:)
Wow, tried to do the same in Kagoshima, but it wouldn't let me use the Japanese citizen... I wonder why... I made the other enterainers, and it's worked in the past... anyway, this is a lib instead of a temple.
Edo gets a courthouse instead of a temple... go back and change Kagoshima to courthouse too.
That pretty much wipes out most of the foreigners... hows that for xenophobic?:p ANyway, onward, shall we?
Caliph is up Music Theory, we're up on everyone else.
We have an awful lot of god, and no units to upgrade for a long time to come... 780 gold for Metallurgy, we have 2777.... why not aye?;) Full Speed ahead towards canons! What warship is complete without canons?;) I say we go for Communism. Is pretty powerful with an empire like ours... just need courthouses EVERYWHERE.
Upgrade all warriors to MDI for 360 gold.
Still alot of barracks being built... do all these cities need them? Will they be producing anything more then workers for a while?
I don't think we want to take on Japan quiet yet... we don't have any troops to take out their capitol yet, and we have 3 cities with 1 spear, and no roads....until we can get those cities defended, in 15 turns, and something of an assult force over there, we shouldn't even think about taking on Japan.
need Egypt to learn Navigation...
Looks like Arabia is our next target... mighty large, but they don't have horses nor iron.
I'm thinking that Alerum is gonna get stuck with Builder turns.:|
I'm rambling... and away we go!

IBT
Arabia is moving alot of troops through our new lands...
We lost our Spices. Gonna renagotiate. 954 gold for their spices. It's worth it.

Turn 1(1060AD)
Workers are in Aztecs borders on the little island that everyone has a piece of... I'm guessing to road there hoping they have a harbor?
Looks like Japan built a 3rd city on a tiny little island.
Rush a habor in Elverurn. We have several galleys over there, and the city grows next turn anyway.
Send 3 carvels north to meet up with around 10 'zerks. We can use them much better in carvels then on land.
Oh I see... that Carvel in Leptis is to take out Japan's last 2 cities.:)
Guessing those workers are trying to build some roads to our new lands... or are they just passing through? I'll make one road connection, then it's to our lands.
We're still tech leader. And the world is at peace.

IBT
Arabia is moving alot of troops through our northern empire... we have a RoP, so I can't kick them out. Maybe we'll be lucky and they'll be going for Egypt... okay... they're done.
Elverun builds our harbor, and I hurry and upgrade a galley so it's ready next turn. Another one will upgrade next turn.
Oops... Hammerfest riots.

Turn 2 (1070)
Just moving troops to finish of Japan, and figuring out if we should take on the Celts of Arabs next... I think we might be able to do both, if we can get some knights up to Arabia.

IBT
Lookie, a jap settler pair!
What is Arabia doing with all those units?! Has to be taking on Egypt....
Arabs start bachs.

Turn 3 (1080)
I'm in place. Declare on Japan.

*** Nagaski ***
Elite zerk vs reg spear - we win, 1 dam
Elite zerk vs reg spear - we win 1 dam, and get us a leader!
Ngasaki is ours. Drop 1 more zerk from our carvel of and load him in nagasaki to join the army.
Start sending troops towards the Celts. I think they're our next best target because they're on an island, and built coastal... can use our zerks to great affect on them now... who knows in 20 turns? Sending all newly built naval armies there.

IBT
ahhh... I declare on Japan, and Arabia goes back home... I see where that was going now. Glad to see them go, that's for sure!
ohhh... we can build the Pentagon! Well, whatta think? Use the Palace prebuild? Or are we saving that for something else?

Turn 4 (1090AD)
Galley vs Jap galley - Damn, we redline it but die.
Have about 10 carvels filled with zerks now. I'm going to have most of them placed to take out the Celts on the next leaders turn. Should be fairly easy to do. After them the next logical choice are the Aztecs. I'm worried that if we take out Egypt that Arabia will go for us.

IBT
Jap spear moves out of range of our pikeman... It's worth chasing them to stop that city from being build... even if it leaves a city open for us.
Arabs are still going back home...

Turn 5 (1100AD)
**** Osaka ***
reg MDI vs reg spear - we died, but they promote... at 2hps.
elite * zerk vs reg spear - We win, 1 dam.
Elite MDI vs 2hp vet spear - we win, no promotion.
Osaka is ours!

Forest chop in Utica

IBT
Japan galley moves back into their last city.
Arabs are moving a settler pair east, everyone else is going back home west.
Notice some barb galleys.
Metallurgy comes in, change to Navigation at 70% coming in 9 turns.
The Great Wall is Obsolete. Oh well.
Turn 6 (1110AD)
Vet Pike vs Reg Jap Spear - We win, and take their settler. Last one I believe.

*** Toyama ***
Reg army vs vet archer - we win, 1 dam
Reg army vs vet archer - We win, 1 dam
We destroy Toyama, and with it the last of the Japanese presence on this earth.
No one has anything worthy of trading metallugy for.

IBT
Egypt DEMANDS! Metallurgy! I refuse! I'm torn now... Celts or Egypt... I still think Celts are wise, but Egypt is next.:|
Barb galley almost takes our one of our carvels.
Osaka's resitance ended.

Turn 7(1120AD)
Continue making naval armies to ship to the Celts homeland.
Turn sci down 1 more notch, breaking even on gold.

IBT
Spme cities build units. Mainly Knights and Zerks.

Turn 8 (1130AD)
Continue to gather forces.... bleh.

IBT
arabs are pretty much all out of our lands. Egypt is making me nervous though.
More unit builds.

Turn 9 (1140AD)
Have several ships in place to launch within the next players first turn, but you may want to wait 2-3 turns to get enough coverage. I'm trying to get 1 shipload per a city... that's usually more then enough. Only take coastal cities until they're all gone, then take the last of his inland cities.

IBT
Celts kick us out... HE KNOWS! HE KNOWS!!!!

Turn 10 (1150AD)
Moved a stack of workers on to ice near Utica. This is to build a forest for a chop.
Rush a courthouse in Osaka.

Notes:
The main contient is pretty much set up so when something builds keep it there. No need to mess with a working combo of 'zerks, knights, and carvels.

Keep in mind the way I was rushing was for military purposes only. I was trying to remove all foreign influence... normally it's better to rush, let build a turn, rush again... you can get up to 39 shields that way, but I'm not very good at it.
No trades, no threats. Celts should be gone in 10. 'nuf said.

Here's the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1_1150AD.SAV).

Here's the roster:
Alerum <== Just Played
Bede <== Is up
JB <== On Deck
SmellinCoffee
Sir Bugsy

Bede

Jul 11, 2004, 06:43 AM

Got it.

I think it was Julius Caesar who said "Veni, Vedi, Vici" when he first met the Celts in Gaul. He also said something about Gaul being divided into three parts. Is it time for some carving?

I like the Pentagon for the extra movement point and the extra unit for our Cavalry armies, to be known as Cleopatra's Bane and Abu's Anguish.

Sir Bugsy

Jul 11, 2004, 10:06 AM

Why would you plant a forest and then chop it? Unless I'm mistaken, You can't get any shields from that anymore. Since about 1.15 of Civ3, that exploit has been removed. You can only get shields from a native forest.

I think we should go for Egypt. Cleo is a much bigger threat.

Good job taking out the Japanese.

alerum68

Jul 11, 2004, 11:02 AM

I came, I saw, I conquoured... Divide and Conquor... all that good stuff.;) Have fun, they should fall fairly easily.;)

Are you sure about that Bugsy? I thought that it would allow you to build 1 forest and chop it for 10 shields, but only 1... after that it won't work... I'm going to run some test and see what I can find out.
Yep, you can plant 1 forrest, and have it give you shields. Trying to replant it on the same spot, and cut again gives no results. What I normally do is build a mine so I know it's already had a forrest planted and chopped.
May want to modify your planing style on this one... planting and chopping a forrest on tundra squares will save those cities...

Egypt should be next, but I really do have a complete assult force poised to take out the celts... because knights would be better for Egypt then Zerks, we're going to have to switch some cities productions over from zerks to knights.... It should go Celts, Egyptians, Aztecs, and Arabs. Aztecs are going to be like Celts where most cities will be taken with zerks from the sea. Arabs and Egyptians will require Knights.... soooo, use our Zerks to take out the Celts, then use our Knights to take out the Egyptians while we regroup our zerks... when those are ready to strike again, we bring them to Aztecs, and when our knights are regrouped we can bring them to Arabia... those Anazai Warriors are not easy, and we may even want to go cavalary.

Screw taking out Japan, I'm more proud of my pop rushing!:p

Bede

Jul 11, 2004, 09:26 PM

0-1150
Cleopatra will pay 37g plus 5gpt for a RoP. Granted.
Cancel the wines and dyes deals.
Renew the RoP with Abu for nothing as he has nothing to offer.

Reset research to 10% with Navigation due in 26. Start Pentagon in Copenhagen and palace in Rekyavik as placeholder for Magellan's.

1-1160
Cleopatra has learned Navigation. No reason to trade for it as I don't want her to get to cannons any faster, but won't speed our research on Navigation 'til she starts Magellans's somewhere or sells it on to someone else. She will trade her Maps, 48g and 1gpt for Wine. The girl has a pretty good set of etchings and we can now see pretty much the whole world. Nobody else has anything to offer her for them so the secrets are just between us for now. I don't like giving the witch luxuries, but I need the intelligence.

As the Celtic land does not appear to connect to anyone, though they do share a couple of islands with the Arabs and the Egyptians, decide that the strategy sbould be that of a fireball. Land, capture, burn, move on, leaving the shared islands for last. The Celts do not appear to have anything the others can't find locally so there should be no rush to resettle their land and I would rather not use the Berzerks as garrison forces. I don't see much in the way of sea traffic so resettlement should not be problem.

Start a couple of settlers to load onto ships with defenders for waiting off the coast of Gaul.

The Egyptians start Magellan's Voyage in Alexandria but they are in anarchy so no need to buy Navigation from them quite yet

4-1190
Egypt is now a Republic. and will build Magellan's in Alex in 36. She wants Dyes and Metallurgy for Navigation. I don't want her to have any more happiness goods as that will only make her stronger and more likely to beat us to Magellans' as she can re-employ the clowns in Alex.
We have 65 shields in the bin at Reykjavik and 14spt so can build in 23 if we buy now, but we can research it in 3 so rather than buy will self research then swap the palace build at Reykjavik then.

Time to hit the Celts.

Ratae falls to four berzerks with one loss to an elite Gallic Sword.

Another town falls with no losses.

Verlamium is next with no losses and one promotion to elite.

Tolosa falls to two zerks, no losses, no promotions. Glanum falls to two zerks, no losses, no promotions.

We lose three zerks to counterattacking Celtic knights

5-1200
Lapurdum falls, no losses, no promotions

6-1210
Positioning armadas southward. Spend some coin to investigate Alexandria. Magellan due in 34 and three clowns in the population. Reykjavik is due in 21. Research started on Economics at minimum.

Cadiz flips to the Arabs and we lose a Berzerk. I move the Army garrisons back from the border towns to a colony and shift a couple MDI to the frontier towns.

7-1220
Lay waste to another Celtic town and take and hold Gergovia in order to form another army with Eric Bloodaxe as the leader. Swap Copenhagen to Palace and set research to Economics in 17 as Copenhagen will accumulate enough shields for Smith's in 20.

8-1230
Lay waste to Caractorum and Camuladorum

Arabs and Aztecs start Magellens. Celts start Bach's

9-1240
Lay waste to Aeginducum.

10-1250
Sailing the south coast of Celtic land.

The armada is on the south of the Gallic island, moving counterclockwise. In one of the boats is a settler and there are several defenders. To the north of the lead caravel is a rubbled neck of land. Drop off the settler and the defensive units, build a town and use it to canal the armada. Depending on what the Celts have in the area keep or abandon depending on whether or not it looks like we can hold it. Keep sailing up the coast, taking down coastal towns along the way. Once the coast is clear, land the armies, and whatever defense that's handy, load the armies up to full strength with 'zerks and march inland, laying waste to the landscape as you go.

Workers in the Japanese lands have been planting and chopping forests to get temples and courthouses built. If there is a road then a forest has been planted and chopped. Rather than building mines up there water everything. Once we get to Nationalism then we can use cops to control waste and corruption but to do that we need to go long food.

We should have a lock on both Magellan's and Smith's.

In other news, the Arabs have no horses, so no Ansars. The technology situation has not changed since Cleo learned Navigation and the Celts, Music Theory. We still hold a monopoly on Metallurgy and should own Economics as well. I delayed on Military Tradition to build some more knights, and we won't need cavalry until it is time to go after Cleopatra.

Have fun!!!

Sir Bugsy

Jul 11, 2004, 10:20 PM

Amazing! An Irishman laying waste to Hiberna. Then again, I've laid waste to America and Ireland in this game.

Well played Brother Bede.

jb1964

Jul 11, 2004, 11:04 PM

I guess I'm up. Will grab and play tomorrow.

alerum68

Jul 11, 2004, 11:28 PM

Wow... I knew it was going to be quick, but that? Very nice Bede.

Arabs do have Ansars... they had horses in the past, but seem to have lost it in a deal with someone... during my watch they had about 20-30 Ansars running around... that was the attack force I was talking about.

Looks like the celts are a thing of the past... I wouldn't even worry about putting units in them, just take and move on... if they flip, we'll retake them, but I aggree with Bede that speed is the key. Don't stop unless you have to.

Have fun JB.

Bede

Jul 12, 2004, 05:06 AM

Once the forces have gathered at the canal point in Gaul, there should be enough in the way of strong defense so that you will lose no 'zerkz. Burn, then land defenders, hold enough ships to pick up the landed force, move the others forward. The canal is about four turns from the north end of the island, so about the middle of the set you should be marching inland with two full armies and a bunch of pikes and muskets.

The Celts are cultural monsters, so trying to keep the towns before the capital is isolated willl be a royal pain, unless you can do it before the resistance ends. IIRC, so long as a city is in full resistance it will not flip back to its motherland, if the city is isolated from the capitol the flip risk reduces substantially and if the capitol is destroyed then the risk is almost non-existent.

jb1964

Jul 12, 2004, 09:32 AM

IBT
Celts kick us out... HE KNOWS! HE KNOWS!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I didn't think the Arabs had Ansars but a bunch of Ancient Cavalry. I guess since my last turn they were churning out a few.

I'll open and review order of battle after work but doubt I'll play more than a turn. All the kids are out of the house for the evening so the wife and I are going out on a date.

Any pictures? I would like to review over lunch as I don't follow all the suggested orders of battle. :confused:

jb1964

Jul 13, 2004, 09:21 AM

The Save, 1300 AD, Turn 250 (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1_1300AD.SAV)

Preflight - F1 sweep, found one grumpy city and hired a tax man.
Most production is set for long tem goals which is just peachy.
No one like us much but we’re bigger and stronger.
The Celts seem to be missing many port cities. I suspect the Borg.

Turn 1, 241, 1255 AD
Moved the fleet up the SE shoreline of Celtic territory and offloaded a settler, pike and musket to build canal. I’ll name this city Panama.
I whipped a citizen for 4 shields to finish out a harbor in Cothago Novo to get spices hooked up. I felt bad for a moment but got over it.
The folks in Kagoshima are still upset so the taxman stays.
Abu’s still missing horses but does have iron. One source is just outside of Cadiz and the other is unconnected outside of Balkh.
Monte’s still w/o iron.
Cleo, Monte and Abu all have Music Theory. It will come in handy when we play a tune at their funerals.

IBT:
Vadso: market to knight
Carthago Novo: harbor to cannon
Ise: harbor to cannon
We get three palace builds
Celts are building Magellan’s

Turn 2, 242, 1260 AD
Found Panama.
We have an Irish knight standing on our doorstep so I unload a knight of our own to dispatch him. All does not go well. Our knight falls w/ the opp. down to a single hp. I can’t leave him there so I pull out an elite MI
Unload troops to head towards Lugdunum all else sail for Burdigala
No trades. All look happy.

IBT:
Birka: library to temple
Rusicada: something to cannon
Celts move in human sacrifices towards Panama. Kind of them.

Turn 3, 243, 1265 AD
Found Ironthief (temple) on the multi-cultural island to pull extra iron away from Arabs.
Kill 3 knights, an MI and horse near Panama. No losses.
Battle for Burdigala
Zerk kills pike and promotes
Zerk kills pike and razes city. We disband 3 slaves.
Half the fleet unloads to start sending troops inland and the other half sail for Nemausus and Tepexpan.
We chop, mine, road and irrigate.
The taxman in Kagoshima goes back to work.
Whip 20 shields for the harbor at Sabratha.
Whip 39 shields for cannon in Ise. Lone citizen still smiling due to massive luxuries.

Abu has Military Tradition but no horses.

Since we have RoP w/ Abu (7 turns) I send our Armies to wander through his territory to get some intel. We need some defenders in our northern territories.
We send an MI on his way through Egyptian (RoP 7 turns) territory and will produce the rest locally.

IBT:
Action outside of Panama:
Irish Knight dies to musket
Irish MI kills musket
Boston: zerk to knight
Oslo: aquaduct to knight
Sabratha: harbor to musket
Ise: cannon to worker

Turn 4, 244, 1270 AD
Switch Hakodate to harbor due next turn.
Whip 19 shields in Rusicade and switch to caravel.
Whip 20 shields in Cirta to finish harbor.
Whip 59 sheilds in Lilehammer to for courthouse
Whip 19 sheilds towards courthouse in Svolvaer

Troops march on Lugdunum.
Vet zerk kills MI.
Vet zerk kills pike in Nemausus and promotes.
Elite zerk kills pike and razes Nemausus and dismembers a slave.
Elite zerk kills pike in Tepexpan. Flawless victory.
Vet zerk kills pike, razes Tepexpan and dismembers slave.
Six zerk units will head north for Lindum and Isca. The rest of the forces disembark here to march on Richborough.

Six Arab AC’s enter our boarders. Our armies probe deeper into Arabia but will turn back to keep an eye on the AC’s.
Settler sails for the Celtic furs that will be available shortly.
No Trades.

IBT:
Another Celtic MI kills a musket outside of Panama. A vet knight dies to a healing vet zerk.
Two more Arab AC’s are coming into our territories and Cleo looks like she’s landing something on Vadso.
Washington: musket to musket
San Fran: courthouse to musket
Cirta: harbor to temple
Bodo: caravel to musket. Population topped, needs whipping.
Hakadote: harbor to walls
Lillehammer: courthouse to cannon

Turn 5, 245, 1275 AD
Zerk army kills two pikes at Lugdunum and redlines.
Vet zerk kills pike and razes Lugdunham. We cover our zerk w/ a pike and collect 6 slaves. Remaining forces fortify on Army.
Vet zerk kills MI outside of Panama.
Army in north disconnects iron and moves w/ forces on Entremont.
Armies in Arab territory head back over boarder towards homeland.

Accidentally hit spacebar and don’t get any checks completed.

IBT:
Chicago: knight to knight
Kagoshima riots due to crowds, war and cruelty. Tough.
Tromso: musket to musket
Farsund: library to market
After pulling our armies from Arab territory the AC’s head home.

Note: Ironthief should have been placed on the coast and then built a harbor.

Turn 6, 246, 1280 AD
Whip shields in Hareid, population was topped with growth in the queue.
Whip 39 shields in Yokohama.
Whip 19 shields in Saldae - temple, pop was at zero growth
Whip 20 shields in Oea - temple, pop was at zero growth
Folks in Osaka are bent so I hire a taxman.
Upgrade pike in Rusiddir.
Army kills off a pike at Entremont.
No deals. Economic in 7.

IBT:
Those damn Arab AC’s are back.
Yokohama: musket to temple (placeholder)

Turn 7, 247, 1285 AD
Yokohama musket heads to relieve knight of guard duty in Nora.
Whip 19 shields in Chicago – musket, pop was topped.
Whip 19 shields in Alesund – Bank , pop topped and ready to grow
Karistad needs to be whipped next turn.

Zerk falls to spear in Lindum.
Zerk kills spear in Lindum
Zerk kills Celtic dude in weird pants in Lindum
Zerk kills longbow in Lindum
Zerk kills spear and razes Lindum. Settler and worker captured netting 3 slaves.
Forces sailing on towards Isca.
Load a third zerk into army outside of Entremont and kill off a pike that takes us to yellow.
Elite zerk slaughters pike in Entremont. Flawless victory.
Elite zerk kills pike
Elite zerk kills pike
Vet zerk kills spear, burns Entremont and nets 4 slaves.
Unspent forces march towards Segusio.

Found Furface and start work on harbor.

IBT:
The Celts want to talk. Nope.
AC’s run back home.
Two zerk die to knights.
Kyoto: cannon to cannon
Aarhus: market to knight (dated a girl named Sherry Aarhus)
Shimonoseki: courthouse to knight
Hammerfest: walls to temple

Turn 8, 248, 1290 AD
Whip 15 shields in Washington, pop. topped and ready to grow.
Whip 20 shields in Karistad to finish out market.
Whip 58 shields in Bodo for a knight. Population topped. They were unhappy about the overcrowding so three less citizens should make them shut up.
Whipped 18 shields in Boston – market.
Whip 38 shields to build musket in Edo.
Whip market in Utica.
Whip 20 shields in Theveste.
Whip 39 shields in Rusiddir to build temple.
Whip Kagoshima down to one to build market.
Whip 15 shields in Haugesund for a musket. Population topped and ready to grow.
Zerk takes knight in open
Zerk takes knight to 1hp and knight retreats.
Zerk kills spear at Isca
Elite zerk kills spear at Isca and razes city.
Troops out of Panama are rested and moving across the mountains towards Alesia.
Join two Celtic slaves to Furface and whip the harbor. Lone citizen must entertain himself.

IBT:
Furface: harbor to walls
Utica: market to knight
Bergen: bank to knight
Edo: musket to musket
Rusiddir: temple to musket
Kagoshima: market to musket.
Bodo: knight to musket
Karistad: market to explorer (going to whip next turn)
Hammerfest riots. Must hook them up to luxuries. Switch to settler.
Honningsvag: aqua to knight
Haugesund: musket to musket
Our citizens bless us w/ two more palace upgrades.

Turn 9, 249, 1295 AD
Elite zerk takes pike in Richborough. Flawless.
Elite zerk takes pike and burns Richborough.

Atlanta whips a market.
San Fran whips a market.
Whip 20 shields in Tromso to finish out market.
Whip 18 shields in Birka to finish out musket
Whip 58 shields to put market in Vadso

IBT:
Celts land two knights and an MI outside of Washington.
Atlanta: market to barracks
Birka: musket to musket
San Fran: market to barracks
Vadso: market to temple
Risor: courthouse to knight

Turn 10, 250, 1300 AD
Viking Knight kills Celt knight and retreats to Washington.
Musket brought from Svolvaer to fortify Washington
Retreat worker into Lillehammer.
Two MI and two knights brought within striking distance of remaining Celt forces. Both towns w/i striking distance of Celt units have a musket. Will have to let them have their turn and then kill them.

Zerk falls to MI :mad: at Rutupiae (recently founded)
Zerk brother kills MI, spits on his carcass, and razes Rutupiae
Sea born zerk kills pike at Segusio
Sea born zerk kills knight and razes Segusio
Fortified galleys waiting to pick up forces on west coast of former Celtic land.

Furface citizen happy as a clam w/ luxes and put to work in the coastal waters to create more human sacrifices.
Osaka needs to be whipped next turn. Spank a market.

Economics in 3. Magellan’s in 7. Tons of shields in our Smith’s palace pre-build.
1182 gold w/ 77 gpt
Running a little less than 50% corruption.

Abu is still without horses and will sell us Military Tradition for a bunch of gold.
Monte will sell MT for iron. Hmmm?
Cleo’s still without MT.
Science guy says we’re backwards. He’s an idiot.
Buy everyone’s TM for 1g/ea. Monte just doesn’t a very good empire.
OK, I get Military Tradition, Music, a map and 1g for iron.
I bet we’re not backwards anymore. :D
I beat the crap out of our populace but with all the luxuries and markets they just take it and smile.

The Save, 1300 AD, Turn 250 (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RW1_1300AD.SAV)