Our opponents will be culture duds as I mentioned in the start up thread. Our opponents are the Zulu, the Vikings, Rome, Mongols and the Aztecs. I am not as sure on the Aztecs, but you know they will waste too much time in early war.


3950 BC
Babylon is formed. We have no food bonuses to start with.


3400 BC
(IT) Our next research project is Masonry.

Summary:
We still don't have much in the way of food bonuses. It looks like multiple cities will have to supply the settlers.

Although this is an 80K game - we still need at least one city pumping out military. Don't focus solely on culture.

We need lots of tightly packed cities. Don't plan for cities using more then 12 tiles.

Signed up:
LKendter
Microbe (currently playing)
SesnOfWthr (on deck)
Ankka
Karasu

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/LK69-3000BC.zip

The variant rules - this is meant to be a passive cultural win game as much as possible.

1) During despotism we must cave to all demands.

2) After despotism we have the right to refuse demands beyond cash / world map.

3) We may not demand other AI civs leave our territory, except for a clear sneak attack. If the Zulu and Vikings are fighting each other going through our territory we allow it.

4) Once spies arrive, we many only plant spies, and steal techs. I don't want other actions that are designed mainly to encourage war.

5) We must accept peace once the attack civ will give it to use for free. We are allowed to take concessions during the peace talks. This pretty much rules out alliances and MPPs.

6) We may not declare war except for the following reasons:
A) To stop a space launch
B) We hit 80K, but another civ has at least 40K. This still is meant to be a limited war.

7) When in doubt about actions please think about the spirit of the game.

The following tactics are PROHIBITED:

RoP Rape - if you have to ask...

RoP Abuse that includes things such as irrigating all tiles with a city building wonders, denying resources with a RoP, putting a unit to block a land bridge, etc.

Scout resource denial - parking a scout on a resource, as the AI won't ask scouts to leave. The same scenario also applies to workers.

False Peace Treaties (must wait for the 20 years to end).

The negative science exploit - you can run a huge deficit (-250 / turn) of negative cash with a token penalty of one lost worker / cheap building. If cash will go below zero, the research level must be dropped.

Ship chaining exploit - you can move a ship, unload troops to another ship, move that ship, etc. This allows you to ship an indefinite distance, and that is why I consider it an exploit.

Resources disconnect / connect exploit - I consider most resource tactics fine. Delaying to hook a resource, trading it away etc is fine. The exploit is to do this every turn. Build a stack of horses, connect saltpeter, upgrade to cavalry, and disconnect.

Palace Jump - You abandon the capital city to move the palace to a new location. If you want to move the palace, build a new palace.


Standard LK house rules:
1) Worker automation of any kind is prohibited.
2) No worker purchases during the first 50 turns to avoid civ crippling.
3) Declaring war / demanding leave solely for the purpose of getting out of trade deals. This includes nonsense spying simply to force a war. Stealing techs is fine.
4) Even if not covered under exploits listed, please try not to use tactics that take advantage of holes in the game design.
5) Our trading reputation is golden - please respect it.
6) Complete your turn. It is frustrating to get a 1/2 completed turn.

Just Checking in.
And thanks for making all rules clear.

Checking in.

Sounds like the start won't be an easiest one if we have no food bonuses...

No pictures of the start for the lurkers? :)

Got it.

I think after Masonry we should beeline to Literature? Libraries and GL would be nice to have. How about ToA?

No pictures of the start for the lurkers?
It is a pretty BORING start. Hopefully the next couple players can find some good tiles. ;)



Got it.

I think after Masonry we should beeline to Literature? Libraries and GL would be nice to have. How about ToA?

ToA will depend on us finding a decent site for wonders. For the most part I hate that wonder, but in this case bonus culture would be nice. The trick is we still want the regular temples ASAP. We want the doubling affect.

We really want libraries. The more culture the better. But let us start with more cities, building some troops, and find some bonus food tiles.

Checking in. Looking forward to this one. :)

I agree with Literature.

I didn't get to build the ToA in my lone Conquests game. Do the free temples it gives get the 1000 years bonus too?
In any case, it does seem the 100k-victory wonder...

However (and you can check SirPleb's spoilers for GOTM31) the 1000-year culture doubling does not seem to have very large an impact on a 'fast' victory -of course, this does not mean we shouln't try to make the best use of it.

As the boss says, our #1 target should rather be that of expanding like crazy, and problem #1 is of course that we cannot fight...

That's an interesting challenge. Well thought, LK! :hatsoff:

Karasu - I can't speak for the 1000 yr bonus, but we may never know as the temples disappear when the wonder expires, with Education. It's a great thing to have to consolidate borders and get an early culture boost, but we're still going to need to build the temples in every city. As LK said, the sooner the better.

They *disappear*? :eek: Well, it was too good to be true...

Yeah that was pretty much my reaction in the one game I built it. I wondered why my people got so mad all of a sudden....

preturn: nothing, so press enter.

IBT Settler->Temple.

(1)2950BC: Warrior in the north reveals a possible settler factory site, but it's too far away. Move the settler to
(2)2900BC: Warrior reveals one more food bonus in the north!
(3)2850BC: huts give us 3 angry barbs.
IBT one barb attacks our warrior and loses.
(4)2800BC: Nineveh founded -> warrior. Our warrior kills a barb and redlines.
(5)2750BC: ZZZ
(6)2710BC: ZZZ
(7)2670BC: ZZZ
(8)2630BC: kill a barb.
IBT Masonry->Alphabet in min. I'm hoping to get it from the AI (Romans and Vikings have it). Warrior->warrior.
(9)2590BC: Got another 3 barbs from hut.
(10)2550BC: kill a barb.
I'm sending a warrior to the west to scouting. We need more contacts.

Nineveh should start settler after the warrior and set up the factory asap. Irrigate two 2 floodplains (one with bonus) will give us +5 food. Mine those bonus grasslands. We seem to need a temple first so that will not be very fast to set up. Babylon too on settler (temple due next turn).

We seem to have a nice choke to defend ourselves. Explore more and see if we can settle there at some point.

Light blue circles are barbs.

The dotmap for discussion.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/LK69-2550BC.jpg

huts give us 3 angry barbs.
No surprise - I hate poping them at high levels unless expansionist.


The good news with the map so far - 3 luxuries nearby, if we can get them all.

=====================

LKendter
Microbe
SesnOfWthr (currently playing)
Ankka (on deck)
Karasu

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.

The variant rules - this is meant to be a passive cultural win game as much as possible.

1) During despotism we must cave to all demands.

2) After despotism we have the right to refuse demands beyond cash / world map.

3) We may not demand other AI civs leave our territory, except for a clear sneak attack. If the Zulu and Vikings are fighting each other going through our territory we allow it.

4) Once spies arrive, we many only plant spies, and steal techs. I don't want other actions that are designed mainly to encourage war.

5) We must accept peace once the attack civ will give it to use for free. We are allowed to take concessions during the peace talks. This pretty much rules out alliances and MPPs.

6) We may not declare war except for the following reasons:
A) To stop a space launch
B) We hit 80K, but another civ has at least 40K. This still is meant to be a limited war.

7) When in doubt about actions please think about the spirit of the game.

I think the dotmap could be tighter. Some of the cities are quite far apart, and we want as many cities as possible to get the max out of libraries & temples.

Nicely played, microbe :thumbsup: I generally never get to build a second city this early in the game!!

I concur on settling as tight as possible: we really need to put as many cities as possible on the board. I'd say two to three tiles spacing immediately outside our core region.

About the settler factory: what about starting a Granary in Nineveh asap -with a prebuild of course while we research Pottery? With only two turns at min on Alphabet we could change research target without loosing too much. And delaying the temple in Nineveh 10 or 20 turns is certainly not going to kill us.
Babylon could build one or two warriors and another settler in the meantime (or Barracks?).

It's just an idea to be discussed of course: my usual approach is to set everything up first (in this case, Granary before any other settlers), which sometimes may not be the most time-effective I guess...

I think the dotmap could be tighter. Some of the cities are quite far apart, and we want as many cities as possible to get the max out of libraries & temples.

Actually, the dot map may be to TIGHT. We want to get around 12 tiles out of our core cities. We should plan to never need hospitals. Once we get far enough away that the cities are mostly corrupt, then pack them tightly.


About the settler factory: what about starting a Granary in Nineveh asap
It has no bonus food tiles - no settler factory possible! The flood plains wheat is the only possible source of a lot of settlers / workers quickly.

We also need a spot to start building military. The last game was war and demand overload in the begining. That was because we did TO much culture, and very little military.

Yeah, the AI seems to count on your power only on military in the beginning...

I got it. play tonight or tomorrow daytime.

You must be right about Nineveh, LK. When I read "flood plains" on microbe's log I jumped on it and assumed it could become our settler factory. So much for talking without checking the save myself... :smoke:

I totally agree on one (actually more) cities building military.

On city spacing: I still favour a very tight placement, especially if we want to achieve the 80k mark as quickly as possible.

I don't mind a tight build, but I don't like ICS kind of placement which looks like exploit to me. I'd prefer a reasonable tight build and play a mostly normal game.

Pre turn – Umm, not much doing yet. We know no one and have two cities.

Hit enter.

Ivory is connected. Warrior wins and promotes vs barb. Babylon temple -> warrior.

2510 bc (1) – Looks like some nice land we have here.

2470 bc (2) – Have to turn warrior around as barb appears near Nineveh.

IT – Babylon warrior -> warrior.

2430 bc (3) – Looks like no landbridge to the east.

IT – Nineveh warrior -> warrior.

2390 bc (4) – Turn NE warrior due north.

IT – Babylon warrior -> settler.

2350 bc (5) – Not much doing.

2310 bc (6) – Barbs are just camped out on the mountains east of Nineveh.

2270 bc (7) – We meet Shaka. Trade him Masonry for WC and 5g. He’s still up The Wheel.

2230 bc (8) – Our NW explorer pops some barbs, big surprise.

IT – Nineveh warrior -> worker. We lose a warrior to barbs.

2190 bc (9) – No landbridge west, either. Shaka now has alphabet and IW, but he’s not interested in dealing.

2150 bc (10) – Nothing noteworthy.

I have left the barbs alone intentionally, as they just seem to be sitting there. There are 2 Zulu warriors near the dyes. Couple more barbs running around to the NW. Settler due next turn in Babylon. Worker in Nineveh due in 4.

>>>SAVE<<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/LK69-2150BC.zip)

And our lands:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/LK.JPG

Nice job, :goodjob: good idea to leave the barbs there, the RNG is sometimes awful. :ack:

So Zulu is in the north, and west is all ours. :eek:

Looks like expanding to the north first and get the settler factory up asap.

Too bad we cannot make more contacts and buy Alphabet yet. Should we raise sci bar and research it ourselves? I don't think we can buy it anytime soon, considering Zulu also doesn't have it.

EDIT: which tech enables curragh? We should build one asap.

Alphabet is the one need for Curraghs.

Alphabet is the one need for Curraghs.
I would certainly like to know what to offshore land masses are. Are they simple little islands, or another continent. Even little islands are important targets for us - every possible city brings us closer to 80K.

LKendter
Microbe
SesnOfWthr
Ankka (currently playing)
Karasu (on deck)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.

The variant rules - this is meant to be a passive cultural win game as much as possible.

1) During despotism we must cave to all demands.

2) After despotism we have the right to refuse demands beyond cash / world map.

3) We may not demand other AI civs leave our territory, except for a clear sneak attack. If the Zulu and Vikings are fighting each other going through our territory we allow it.

4) Once spies arrive, we many only plant spies, and steal techs. I don't want other actions that are designed mainly to encourage war.

5) We must accept peace once the attack civ will give it to use for free. We are allowed to take concessions during the peace talks. This pretty much rules out alliances and MPPs.

6) We may not declare war except for the following reasons:
A) To stop a space launch
B) We hit 80K, but another civ has at least 40K. This still is meant to be a limited war.

7) When in doubt about actions please think about the spirit of the game.

I agree, even those one or two tile islands are needed.


Oh dear, Why am I always up in all of my SG's at the same time? I am sorry but I need a skip. 2 SG's for one day is enough, and propably I will be playing the other one tomorrow as well.

LKendter (on deck)
Microbe
SesnOfWthr
Ankka (skipped)
Karasu (currently playing)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.

The variant rules - this is meant to be a passive cultural win game as much as possible.

1) During despotism we must cave to all demands.

2) After despotism we have the right to refuse demands beyond cash / world map.

3) We may not demand other AI civs leave our territory, except for a clear sneak attack. If the Zulu and Vikings are fighting each other going through our territory we allow it.

4) Once spies arrive, we many only plant spies, and steal techs. I don't want other actions that are designed mainly to encourage war.

5) We must accept peace once the attack civ will give it to use for free. We are allowed to take concessions during the peace talks. This pretty much rules out alliances and MPPs.

6) We may not declare war except for the following reasons:
A) To stop a space launch
B) We hit 80K, but another civ has at least 40K. This still is meant to be a limited war.

7) When in doubt about actions please think about the spirit of the game.

Ok. I got it.

From what I understood of our discussion, I will move the settler towards the settler factory site, and try to speed up Alphabet.

Any other comments before I start playing (most likely later tonight)?

We culd build the SoZ... but I doubt we'll need it and it'll only slow down our settling and getting more culture so I doubt it would be a clever choice to build it.

Map Makng will be important, so we'll get cities onto those little islands... we'll want every city possible.

Settling is more important than wonders. We are going for 80K, not 20K. First more cities. Culture wise those wonders aren't much better than an early temple or library.

Settling is more important than wonders. We are going for 80K, not 20K. First more cities. Culture wise those wonders aren't much better than an early temple or library.

I can't agree more - a temple + library is a good as most wonders. Once double it beats more wonders.

I will have to dig out me sheet talking about the per shield culture gain of the various buildings.

The culture value to us

Temple = 2 cpt for 30 shields - 15 shields per cp.
Library = 3cpt for 40 shields - 13.33 shields per cp.
University = 4 cpt for 100 shields - 25 shields per cp.
Coliseum = 2 cpt for 100 shields - 50 shields per cp.
Heroic Epic = 4 cpt for 200 shields - 50 shields per cp.
Great Library = 6 cpt for 400 shields - 66 shields per cp. This has the advantage of a block of NO research to rush culture. It has a lot of hidden value.
Statue of Zeus = 4 cpt for 200 shields - 50 shields per cp. However, the value of the massive amount of ancient cavalry can't be ignored.

As you can see from the above chart the most culture bang for the buck is temples / libraries. Coliseums SUCK for culture and should be the last choice to build. In fact I would push for a wonder from a heavy shield city before I waste my time on coliseums

Pre-turn
Give a look around, set research slider to max (Alphabet due in 8 at -1 gpt) and press Enter.
Shaka has got Alphabet but won't trade it. He is also up The Wheel and Iron Working

Babylon: Settler - Barracks

Turn 1 - 2110 BC
Northern warrior (Alvar) scouts north
Western warrior (Boris) moves back towards our settlements

Turn 2 - 2070 BC
More scouting.
Settler leaves Nineveh accompanied by Carmen

IT
Nineveh: Worker - Temple

Turn 3 - 2030 BC
Settler moves with its escort. Workers follow. Barbarians follow too... :hmm:

Turn 4 - 1990 BC
Settler moves; Workers follow; the three Barbs previously fortified near Nineveh are faced by Carmen and Dorothy. Two more coming from the east will find Boris on their way.

IT
Carmen and Dorothy easily fend off the Barb attack. Carmen promotes to veteran.
Boris is slayed by a single barb warrior.

Turn 5 - 1950 BC
Alphabet is now due in six turns at 70% science, 0 gpt.

Ok. I am going to pause here for some discussion.
I *think* that a 4-turns settler factory is possible between city sizes 4 and 6 by settling 1a, 1b or 1c below and working the "X" tiles; if it isn't because of not enough shields, it will work between size 5 and 7 I guess, with an additional irrigated plain (assuming no wasted shields... :hmm: ).

At this point, we could use the remaining flood plains. For instance, a 5-turns worker factory could be available with a city in 2a or 2b working two flood plains and a plains tile.

This is the first thing that came to my mind, at least -there will probably be better possibilities.
Besides, it will probably only work if we build the Palace or the Forbidden Palace over there.

Right now, I would favour settling 1a and 2b -I don't care too much for placing cities on Flood Plains. Moreover, 1a has immediate access to both BGs without requiring border expansion.
If we go for this solution, I would consider settling 2b first, and start roading and improving towards 1a while Nineveh builds another settler.
1b and 2a also look good. Instructions?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Options_LK69.jpg

BTW, there are also cathedrals in the list above, at 160 shields (80 for us) for 3 culture point, giving 26.6 shields per culture :)

I'd settle 2a and 1b, both wouldn't need the aquaduct..

From what I see 1B is the best. However, due to the corruption with despotism this will NOT be a 4 turn settler factory. Now it might be able to get use a few badly need workers. ;)

my vote would go to 1b as well, and I would push 2a either one, or maybe even two tiles NW.

As far as factory or not, isn't that a cattle under the NW "x"? Couldn't we make a factory by irrigating the cow, irrigating the wheat, and working some forest? I'm at work so i can't really see everything properly....

The issue isn't the food - the issue is 2nd ring corruption under despost.

Sorry I wasn't clearer. I understood the corruption problem, but I was wondering if we could produce enough shields to work it even with the corruption.

Then I realized that even if it could work for a cycle or two (hypothetically), any new cities close to babylon would raise corruption again making it a no go.

If 4-turn isn't possible, how about 5 or 6 turn?

We still need 1b I think, to be on the river and get the most shields.

Ok, then. 1b it is. I'll go settle directly there and leave the rest for future discussion.

I am going to need a skip this weekend, as I'm moving. Net will be set up at the new place on Thurs, but I won't be in till Monday. So for the four days, if I come up either skip me, or I can swap if appropriate.

LKendter (on deck)
Microbe
SesnOfWthr (skip Jun 3 to Jun 6)
Ankka
Karasu (currently playing)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.

I am going to be away from June 5th to June 8th, AFAIK now.

LKendter (on deck)
Microbe
SesnOfWthr (skip Jun 3 to Jun 6)
Ankka (June 5th to June 8th)
Karasu (currently playing)

We have a rough few days for players...

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.

The rest of the story...

Turn 6 - 1910 BC
Settler moves towards his destination; workers and warriors follow. More barbs approach

IT

Turn 7 - 1870 BC
More movements. A barb camp appears southeast of Babylon.

IT

Turn 8 - 1830 BC
Ashur founded. Temple.

IT

Turn 9 - 1790 BC
Move workers

IT

Turn 10 - 1750 BC
We discover Alphabet. The Zulus never wanted to sell it, not even when we were only one turn from discovering it.
Set research to Writing, due in 23 turns at 50% science (it is still possible to accelerate running a small deficit.

Notes
The temple in Nineveh can be switched to a Settler if we want -both would be due in 3 while pop growth is in 4.
Babylon is 1 turn from reaching pop 2 and 5 from Barracks; it cannot be switched to Curragh now without loosing shield.

Our world:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/LK69-1750BC.jpg

--- And the save --- (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/LK69-1750BC.zip)

LKendter (currently playing)
Microbe (on deck)
SesnOfWthr (skip Jun 3 to Jun 6)
Ankka (June 5th to June 8th)
Karasu

We have a rough few days for players...

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.

We should build a curragh or two first in our capital.

Either Babylon or Nineveh should become a military town.

Either Babylon or Nineveh should become a military town.
Both can help out. To keep our expansion going both cities will have to supply an settler at times. The floodplain wheat city will stay on only settlers / workers. It has no other use. I would even avoid the temple for awhile in that city. 80K requires a lot of cities, and we can't afford that city to be tied up for a temple.

-------------------------------------

1750 BC
Where are the other civs? We are up to 4 luxuries on our continent.

Switching to the boat would waste 12 shields, so I will finish the barracks. We do need military help. We badly need more workers, so I switch Ashur to worker.


1725 BC
(IT) The Zulu help us out by killing the barb by Ashur.


1650 BC
(IT) Two barbs attack our warriors, and we kill both with one promotion to veteran.


1550 BC
We get another contact - Rome. They have the same techs as the Zulu, so we have nothing to trade.

1500 BC
Two barbs are killed in the southern camp.


Summary:
AVOID literature for science in the near future. The Great Library is a huge boast for letting us cash rush culture. At the moment our empire is too small to allow us to tie up a city on wonder building. We need to expand at the moment.

It is a lousy location, but I suggest the next settler head for the dyes. The Zulu are coming south toward us. That is the luxury most at risk.



Signed up:
LKendter
Microbe (currently playing)
SesnOfWthr (skip Jun 3 to Jun 6)
Ankka (skip June 5th to June 8th)
Karasu (on deck)


We have a rough few days for players...

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/LK69-1500BC.zip

The variant rules - this is meant to be a passive cultural win game as much as possible.

1) During despotism we must cave to all demands.

2) After despotism we have the right to refuse demands beyond cash / world map.

3) We may not demand other AI civs leave our territory, except for a clear sneak attack. If the Zulu and Vikings are fighting each other going through our territory we allow it.

4) Once spies arrive, we many only plant spies, and steal techs. I don't want other actions that are designed mainly to encourage war.

5) We must accept peace once the attack civ will give it to use for free. We are allowed to take concessions during the peace talks. This pretty much rules out alliances and MPPs.

6) We may not declare war except for the following reasons:
A) To stop a space launch
B) We hit 80K, but another civ has at least 40K. This still is meant to be a limited war.

7) When in doubt about actions please think about the spirit of the game.

OK got it..

preturn: hmm, I decide to buy Writing from Rome for 42g. It's almost the same cost for self-research. I then go full speed on Philosophy in 10 turns. Worth a try?

(1)1475BC: Bomman clears barb camp and promotes to elite.

IBT Nineveh settler->settler. We get a palace expansion.

(2)1450BC: move settler.

IBT Rome kicks us out.

(3)1425BC: movement

IBT Babylon bowman->bowman.

(4)1400BC: Curragh spots a purple border.

(5)1375BC: We meet Vikings. He has Wheel and IW, so no trading available. He has also a worker for sale but we cannot afford.

With a mine completed Ninevsh is going to build settler one turn before pop grows, so I switch it to rax for now.

Babylon builds bowman starts another curragh.

(6)1350BC: movement

(7)1325BC: send curragh to west. Need to explore what's between Vikings and Romans.

I'm kinda lost what to build in Babylon, so I set to settler.

(8)1300BC: Ellipi is founded on the dyes. I start a temple for now.

(9)1275BC: more exploration.

IBT barb loses to our curragh. We are the first to Philosophy! [party] I choose Code of Law and start min on Republic.

(10)1250BC:
Philosophy to Rome for Mysticism+35g.
Philosophy+Mysticism to Zulu for Wheel+107g.
Philosophy+Mysticism+68g to Vikings for Iron Working + HBR.

We are up CoL for everybody.

There is iron at the far east which we want asap. We do not have horses.

I have moved our military to the north, but then I realize we have a settler due in the south which needs an escort. You probably want to build a warrior in Babylon after the settler, and use the existing warrior as escort.

We do need to keep producing military - AI may demand techs. Rome has legions already. :(

Idea on which spot to settle first?

My thinking is that the settler from Ashur should go NW to seal our land. The tile which is 3 or 4 tile NW to Ashur looks like a nice spot. It would also bring more shields to Ashur without the need of a temple.

The settler from Babylon should go east to settle on furs. Next settler should go to claim the iron.

Ashur should probably build a worker before next settler.

I need a skip again, sorry. :undecide:

I Got it. Not sure if I can play today, though.

Or, ,as I think better, I don't. Just give me some ideas on what to do here...

Just read all reports and discussion, especially the last one. The main job is still more settling. Babylon and Neneveh could oscilate b/t settler and military.

OK, I put it back :D

I haven't seen the save yet. I'll try to give a look and come back for some discussions if you feel like.

Ok... let's see how badly I can get this messed up...;)





:joke:

Babylon and Neneveh could oscilate b/t settler and military.
This is the perfect plan. It might be two troops per settler to help the other cover the other heavy food cities.


Idea on which spot to settle first?
I think we also have the wheat near Babylon not claimed. We do need all those resources, but we need cities that can grow and supply settlers.

===============================

Signed up:
LKendter
Microbe
SesnOfWthr (skip Jun 3 to Jun 6)
Ankka (currently playing) (skip June 5th to June 8th)
Karasu (on deck)

We have a rough few days for players...

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.

Ok, I played the turns...:


1250BC [Preturn]: Check stuff to see where we are going.. Reset personal prefs.
Press enter.

IBT: Ashur settler > settler.

1225BC [1]: The settler rom Ashur moves NW, and I will settle it on the plains 3 NW from Ashur.

IBT: Babylon settler > warrior.

1200BC [2]: Setler from Babylon moves East and is accompanied by a warrior escort.

The curraghs explore around...


The Zulus and Vikings now have Map Making, trade CoL to the Vikings for Map Making + 118 gold.

The Zulus and Romans are quite poor, so I don't think trading is a good idea.

1175BC [3]: Settle Akkad > temple. When the border reveals some area, it also reveals a Zulu warrior... on our side. :rolleyes: Well, I guess it can't do that much harm.

More exploring with the curraghs.

IBT: A barb warrior approaches Ashur.

The Zulu warrior comes into our borders, but seems like it's only on it's way home...

Babylon warrior > warrior. We could use some military...

1150BC [4]: The barb is in a place where it can't be reached this turn.. next turn then.

IBT: The Zulus have another warrior there too...:rolleyes:

Nineveh barracks > warrior.

1125BC [5]: Elite bowman kills barbarian easily.

Some exploring with curraghs...

IBT: Looks like the Zulu warrior isn't heading immidiately out of our area... let's see what happens.

Babylon warrior > galley. We need a ship to transport a settler to the nearby island.

1100BC [6]: Build Uruk on the more Northern furs. > temple.

IBT: One of our curraghs is attacked by a barb galey, but we win & get a promotion to veteran.

Nineveh warrior > warrior. Nineveh would build settler one turn before growth, so I decide to do this.

1075BC [7]: Exploring...

IBT: Doesn't look like the Zulu are withdrawing their forces... I block them with a warrior.

1050BC [8]: We meet the Aztecs!

They are a big nation, lot's of cities, but we have got Philo and CoL over them. They are poor though, so no trading...

Adjust lux to 30% to prevent Ashur from rioting.

IBT: Nieveh warrior > settler.

1025BC [9]: Nothing really...

IBT: Looks like the Zulu warrior just did some barb- hunting... the other one goes back towards home.

1000BC [10]: Nothing really. You may want to switch Babylon to a settler, but I though it would be too much production lost if it went back to size 1 again for a while...

And the save to next better player. :)

Build Uruk on the more Northern furs. > temple.
That is the type of news I like to hear. We have at least 2 luxuries. :D

==============================

Signed up:
LKendter (on deck)
Microbe
SesnOfWthr (skip Jun 3 to Jun 6)
Ankka (skip June 5th to June 8th)
Karasu (currently playing)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.

Youp. Got it. Will probably play it tomorrow.

That is the type of news I like to hear. We have at least 2 luxuries. :D


2? We have 3: ivory, dyes and furs.

Flash update: I won't be able to play until tonight and to post until tomorrow. If that's ok with the team, well... ok :D Otherwise I can swap or simply leave it.
Things should be easier after the weekend.

When things start going wrong, they all do that at the same time... :p
Among a long list of other things, I lost the save when my stupid laptop decided to crash. Anyway, there were few events:

- I build a few warriors and a couple more settlers (Nineveh is completing a warrior and I was planning to start a worker, whose completion would coincide with pop growth).
- I sent northwards the settler from Ashur, to somewhat close "our lands", and fortified a few troops there.
- The second settler (the one from Nineveh) went down to the wheat south of Babylon.
- I rushed Temples in the new cities -Ellipi, especially, needs border expansion and some improvements to grow
- We met the Mongols, who are on tech par with us. They also built the Colossus.
- The Galley discovered a couple one-tile islands west of Babylon. It ventured for a brief ocean trip, but not seeing anything worth I sent her back. She is on a sea tile now, I hope it won't sink... :mischief:

That's more or less it. I am sorry but I cannot post a screenshot, as I am using a really lousy internet connection from home. See you back on Monday!

HERE YOU GO (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/LK69-750BC.zip)

LKendter (currently playing)
Microbe (on deck)
SesnOfWthr (skip Jun 3 to Jun 6)
Ankka (skip June 5th to June 8th)
Karasu

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.

750 BC
My number one worry at the moment is military. I can't believe the absurd amount of warriors we have, yet we have almost zero spearman and limited bowman. NO more warriors please - we need quality units. I switch Nineveh to bowman.

I really hate to drop Babylon is size, as it is the only other city for military. However, I don't feel we can afford the shield loss to swap to military.

Culture wise we are doing well at the moment as we double our nearest rival. They will build some wonders soon. However, we have 2 more temples coming up soon.

The other good news is luxury number three will soon be connected.

Diplomatic check finds I can send Code of Laws and $50 to the Aztecs, and get Polytheism. I ship Polytheism to the Mongols for $215. I buy math from the Vikings for $210. We have tech parity again.
(IT) :cry: Our galley sinks.

710 BC
Samarra is formed. This city gives us the right to build the FP. This is something we will need ASAP.
(IT) The Aztecs complete the Pyramids.


670 BC
I ship Rome Math for $40 and a worker. We are really short of workers and I am happy to even get a half speed. That worker moves toward first ring Samarra.

I whip a temple in corrupt Eridu. Thanks for a forest chop another temple completes in 2 in Uruk.

650 BC
Eulbar is formed. This city badly needs water delivered to its doors.

Rome is the first to Republic. No way that we can buy Republic at monopoly.

570 BC
I love seeing Babylon with a doubled temple already.
(I) Rome completes the Oracle.



Summary:
Keep Akkad on workers for now. We are critically short of them. Get them back toward our core. All of our first ring cities need help.

Keep Babylon on Zeus. 4 cp for 200 shields isn't great, but we can certainly use the free military.


Signed up:
LKendter
Microbe (currently playing)
SesnOfWthr (on deck) (skip Jun 3 to Jun 6)
Ankka (skip June 5th to June 8th)
Karasu

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/LK69-550BC.zip

The variant rules - this is meant to be a passive cultural win game as much as possible.

1) During despotism we must cave to all demands.

2) After despotism we have the right to refuse demands beyond cash / world map.

3) We may not demand other AI civs leave our territory, except for a clear sneak attack. If the Zulu and Vikings are fighting each other going through our territory we allow it.

4) Once spies arrive, we many only plant spies, and steal techs. I don't want other actions that are designed mainly to encourage war.

5) We must accept peace once the attack civ will give it to use for free. We are allowed to take concessions during the peace talks. This pretty much rules out alliances and MPPs.

6) We may not declare war except for the following reasons:
A) To stop a space launch
B) We hit 80K, but another civ has at least 40K. This still is meant to be a limited war.

7) When in doubt about actions please think about the spirit of the game.

This is the northern front. The warrior is exploring the space with the fog. If this is a marsh, then we have a long-term site to go after. The settler targeted for NE from where it is. A few flips will really help our 80K goal.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/LAK-401.jpg


This is our core cities. The red line is the worker heading to help Samarra. The yellow line is the badly needed water for Eulbar. The grey line is the development area to get more shields to Uruk. With more development we can easily get the FP a lot sooner. We really need the corruption help, and 2 cpt doesn't hurt.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/LAK-402.jpg

preturn: not much to do.

We are short of settlers..

MM Ashur to get settler still in 14 turns but with +5 food.

Rome demands Polytheism! I cave according to the rules.

(1)530BC: I buy 2 workers from Rome by 232g.

Warrior reveals marshes as expected. Move settler NW instead of NE - it's on a hill. Although NE seems to have more tiles after expansion, I think at this location we should worry more about defense, and we can always pack in more cities around it.

(2)510BC: Found Nippur, start temple.

Our currash sees a razed city spot - looks like Rome and Vikings are at war? That's why they don't exchange techs.

I buy Monarchy from Aztecs for Math+2gpt+434g. Since we are religious I revolt right away. We are still 18 turns to Republic.

(3)490BC: ZZZ

IBT Rome is attacked but wins.

(4)470BC: We are Monarchy.

MM to get FP in 38 turns. Zeus due in 25 and will be even shorter when Babylon grows.

Aztecs starts ToA - this will boost culture significantly.

(5)450BC: ZZZ

(6)430BC: Rome gets Construction but still lacks Monarchy, and Republic is not spreading around. So I get Construction+1g from Rome by Monarchy. We are one tech to Middle Ages.

(7)410BC: ZZZ
(8)390BC: ZZZ

Mongols has Republic! I get it plus 54g by Monarchy+Mathmatics. Start min on Currency.

Hmm, this is unexpected. I sell Republic to Zulu for 333g (full price), and to Aztecs for 526g.

Should we revolt again? We have 27 units. It means in Republic we'll pay 34gpt as unit support as opposed to 7. Our total pop is 27, so we'll get some extra commerce in Republic, but not going to compensate for that due to corruption. I think we should stay in Monarchy until we grow bigger? I'll leave it to next leader anyway.

I rush three temples by about 200g.

IBT: Nippur temple->worker. Samarra temple->worker. Eulbar temple->harbor.

(9)370BC: settler moves to iron.

(10)350BC: Uruk grows and FP is due in 23 turns.

Our culture is 764 while the closest AI is 280. :D And we are 2nd in score and power (Aztecs is the strongest).

Note: there are some barbs in the south. I am moving a bowman from babylon to clear the camp (I should have done this earlier). A warrior is fortifying next to Samarra to protect the workers.

Ashur should keep popping up settlers. I MM'ed it to have most food this turn and you should adjust it for more shields next turn. It needs MM to get the most out of it.

Rush settlers if needed.

Oh maybe we should rush a temple in Ashur too when we get a chance. It's less than 120g. :)

We should establish some embassies too, since we have 804g in bank.

This is the map.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/LK69-350BC.jpg

Rome demands Polytheism! I cave according to the rules.
We have left despotism, so that rule is not in effect anymore. :D
2) After despotism we have the right to refuse demands beyond cash / world map.
We can now tell the AI to shove tech demands.

----------------------------------------------------

Should we revolt again? We have 27 units. It means in Republic we'll pay 34gpt as unit support as opposed to 7. Our total pop is 27, so we'll get some extra commerce in Republic, but not going to compensate for that due to corruption. I think we should stay in Monarchy until we grow bigger? I'll leave it to next leader anyway.
With the recent changes to Republic (extra military upkeep cost), I don't think it is much better then Monarchy. My vote is stick with Monarchy. LK67 was Monarchy for quite a while, with a small empire, and we did fine.

----------------------------------------------------

We should establish some embassies too, since we have 804g in bank.

Rush settlers if needed.

Oh maybe we should rush a temple in Ashur too when we get a chance. It's less than 120g.

I agree 100%. Build every embassy now. Rush the temple in Ashur. Rush settlers from the 90% corrupt cities. Let the good cities build the needed military. Cash in our hands = demands. I want to clear out the cash for more culture and settlers for future culture.

----------------------------------------------------

Signed up:
LKendter
Microbe
SesnOfWthr (currently playing) (skip Jun 3 to Jun 6)
I don't want to do a double skip. I will give SesnOfWthr the expect time for got it.
Ankka (on deck) (skip June 5th to June 8th)
Karasu

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.

The variant rules - this is meant to be a passive cultural win game as much as possible.

1) During despotism we must cave to all demands.

2) After despotism we have the right to refuse demands beyond cash / world map.

3) We may not demand other AI civs leave our territory, except for a clear sneak attack. If the Zulu and Vikings are fighting each other going through our territory we allow it.

4) Once spies arrive, we many only plant spies, and steal techs. I don't want other actions that are designed mainly to encourage war.

5) We must accept peace once the attack civ will give it to use for free. We are allowed to take concessions during the peace talks. This pretty much rules out alliances and MPPs.

6) We may not declare war except for the following reasons:
A) To stop a space launch
B) We hit 80K, but another civ has at least 40K. This still is meant to be a limited war.

7) When in doubt about actions please think about the spirit of the game.

We started min in Currency, but should we set max to literature? I think we should get those libraries asap as we don't seem to have anything else to build except military/workers.

I don't really think we need Great Library - we'll beeline to Education anyway, and AI is very slow even at emperor.

We started min in Currency, but should we set max to literature? I think we should get those libraries asap as we don't seem to have anything else to build except military/workers.
The only trouble is we don't have the GPT to do this except to burn down our cash reserves. Our GPT is horrible at the moment. The next player should still see if we can get decent rate toward it.

At all - it is time to start growing our core.
We need to improve our cash flow. Samarra, Babylon, Uruk, Eulbar and Nineveh need to get to size 6, even size 12 ASAP. Stop building settlers / workers out of these cities. We need a stronger economy and production quickly. We have enough junk cities to help with settlers at this point.

I got a chance to look at the game. I was really hoping our lousy 9 gpt was because of outstanding AI deals. We are only shipping $2/turn to other nations. It is because our core cities are too small to support the number of buildings we have. All those temples are killing us for maintenance.

I know I am repeating myself, but if we don't start growing our core cities for more gpt Babylon will be broke.

I don't know if I'm still w/in my 24, but I got it anyhow, and I should be able to play tonight.

EDIT: reading through the thread and trying to catch back up, I realized the tech choice is unclear. I see that we currently have it set to Currency at minimum. I would think currency would bve the tech of choice, but if gpt is the biggest issue than I think max research with some market prebuilds would be the order of the day. However, I see some conversation on Literature, which is only good for the culture building libraries.

Can someone clear this up? Do we want currency at max (sustainable) research?

I agree with sticking with Currency and trying to expand/improve. That certainly looks more important than building a few libraries right now.

On the military side, I saw nothing wrong with warriors -once we upgrade them, of course. I have realized only yesterday that the upgrade cost is higher in C3C, so that's certainly one point against building too many (I need more experience before I know how much though).
I normally build very few defensive units, and without horses... The Statue of Zeus looks indeed like a nice pick for our military.

I heartily agree with building the FP in Uruk.

Can someone clear this up? Do we want currency at max (sustainable) research?

We make a lousy +9 gold / turn. We have no such thing as max research. However, I agree we DON'T need libraries at the moment. We really need to imrpove the economy. Markets head us toward that goal.

I just realized I completely missed a settler factory! We are now a monarchy. The city with the wheat should be able to become a 4-turn settler factory. With the wheat irrigated, along with maybe one tile, this should become our settler factory. Get our workers down there, and switch to granary. We can keep our civ growth going without slowing the settling pace. :D

We need to get several workers down there and get that city going now.

The big question is what after Zeus? I am not sure if there are more wonders worth going for. I know ToA is out of reach.

Hi all, I'm back now. :)


I agree on that, we need some economy. Markets, then libraries...

Just an update. Apparently my cable modem is smarter than me. :( I was unable to get it up and running last night and the techs had gone home. If you don't mind waiting, I'll get it set up when I call them tonight. If the wait is an issue, then all I can do is apologize.

Just an update. Apparently my cable modem is smarter than me. :( I was unable to get it up and running last night and the techs had gone home. If you don't mind waiting, I'll get it set up when I call them tonight. If the wait is an issue, then all I can do is apologize.


Have you finished the game and just unable to post it? If so, and you can't get the cable modem to work - can you post the game from this source? Long delays can really kill interest in an SG.

Nope, this is my work computer. Not allowed to even DL anything on it. I was not able to even pick up the save, much to my chagrin. :blush: I realize that delays can be a real drag, which is why I posted the update in the first place.

I should add that I have the utmost confidence that I will be able to get the modem running when I get home, but the earliest I could have the save is approx. 12 hrs from now.

The big question is what after Zeus? I am not sure if there are more wonders worth going for. I know ToA is out of reach.

What else to build except wonders then? ;)

I'd always keep a prebuild going. Culture-wise Great Library would be good to have.

EDIT: We don't need ToA. We'll build temples ourselves.

Yes, the GLib is awesome in culture. If we can get it, would be a nice bonus. :)

I'd always keep a prebuild going. Culture-wise Great Library would be good to have.

If we want prebuilds, then someplace other then the capitol will need to get involved. We need to get another city up to speed.

Turns out I am smarter than the modem. :smug: Well, if I select the right network that is. :blush:

At any rate, I haven't seen any instructions to skip me, so i have successfully grabbed the save and will start playing now.

Updates soon. :)

Pre turn – Getting back in the groove. Looking at Ashur, it may be difficult to get a factory, due to the high corruption. Seems to be around 40% corrupt or so. Up sci to 50%, curr due in 21 @ -8gpt. Change Samarra to granary for market pre-build.

Embassies:
Zulu(36g) – Iron, horses, and wine. Size 6, 72g, ToA in 2. 16 spt, 14 fpt, 18 cpt, 3 Enkidu.
Viking(42g) – Iron, horse, wine. 9 spt, 15 fpt, 13 cpt. Size 6, 4g, ToA in 13. 2 spears.
Rome(41g) – Dyes. 4 spt, 11 fpt, 11 cpt. Oracle, 2 legions and 2 spears. Size 5, 0g.
Mongol(46g) – Spices and silk. Colossus, Toa in 100 :lol:. 4 spt, 14 fpt, 26 cpt. Size 6, 0g, 2 spears.
Aztecs(94g!) – Incense, silk. Size 8, 37g, 11 spt, 18 fpt, 12 cpt. Pyramids, ToA in 32, 6 spears.
Still 545g in the bank.

330 bc (1) – Trade Ragnar Republic for lit and 5g, all he has. If I sell it back around, I can get approx. 150g. I’ll wait a turn or two to see if anything else comes up. Change Nineveh to GL. It says 98 turns, but it’s still size 2.

310 bc (2) – Zimbabwe builds ToA. Vikings cascade to GL. They should probably get it in 15 turns or so. Available cash for lit is around 75g now.

290 bc (3) – Ragnar wants MA vs Rome. Doesn’t really keep with the whole pacifist thing. Our vet warrior rl’s, promotes, and disperses camp. Our vet bowman in forest was killed by two barb horses. Rush temple in Ashur.

270 bc (4) – Vikings and Romans sign peace. :lol: Vikings complete GL, apparently they were closer than I had guessed. Change Nineveh to lib. Shuruppak and Zariqum founded. With new cities, currency can be had in 12 going back to –8gpt economy.

250 bc (5) – Not much doing.

230 bc (6) – Whack a couple barbs. Road to Zariqum(iron) finished. Currency seems to be dropping by two for each turn. Now says due in 8. :hmm: Nevermind, Aztecs have it, but want lit and 250g. I’ll wait a turn or two to see if they sell it around. Even if we can’t buy it, we’ll get it soon.

210 bc (7) – Currency in 7, Aztecs still want lit and 180g. Not much of a bargaining position since they’re at war with Mongols, and only know us otherwise.

190 bc (8) – Uh-oh. Reports of a massive uprising near Shurrupak. Computer crashes. Load autosave. Currency drops to two turns as Ragnar discovers it and promptly sells it around for peanuts. Trade lit to Aztecs for currency and 56g. Free tech is Mono. The barb camp near Samarra pops 8 horse 1 turn before warrior arrives.

170 bc (9) – Quickly log onto to CFC to make sure it’s OK to tell Monty to stuff his Monotheism demand. It is, and I do. He declares. We lose one warrior to barbs. Another stack appears near Ashur. Rush a granary in Ashur before the barbs hit.

150 bc (10) – Strangely, the barbs don’t move any closer. We still have 187g in the bank, so if the southern barbs come, we should probably rush something else.

>>>SAVE<<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/LK69-150BC.zip)

Were we researching Currency at full with monopoly price? We should not have done that. We should have waited until we were last then buy (preferred) or research it. Remember we are the only scientific civ, so we can get all the money back immediately. That's why I started min on it.

This game isn't about space race. We don't need to be tech lead and we want the tech pace to be slow.

The thinking was to enable us to get to markets sooner. I actually asked for some clarification on that issue before I even started playing. Actually, before I even straightened out my modem issues.

I think you're saying that we could sell back our free tech for the money, but why not hold onto it until we can trade it for another tech? No one else is getting a tech anytime soon, and even when they do, the AI seems to make Feudalism the higher priority.

We don't need to be tech lead and we want the tech pace to be slow.

For the most part I agree. The only exception is to kill the ToA asap. Whoever builds the ToA will get education even if we give it to them for FREE. That wonder must must go to avoid any AI getting a lot of culture.

========================================

Quickly log onto to CFC to make sure it’s OK to tell Monty to stuff his Monotheism demand. It is, and I do. He declares.
Let's make sure we have some bowman by the coast. I would like to get our GA.

Now that we have currency - we need marketplaces even BEFORE culture in the core. We need to improve our GPT ASAP.

========================================

Signed up:
LKendter
Microbe
SesnOfWthr
Ankka (currently playing)
Karasu (on deck)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.

Actually our military is pretty weak at the moment. I tried to hold off on building more units because of our unit costs and the larger gpt issue.

Actually our military is pretty weak at the moment. I tried to hold off on building more units because of our unit costs and the larger gpt issue.

The next player needs to build some Bowman ASAP. We need them go the our GA. If the Aztecs draw an ally from our continent it could get messy.
Can we at least upgrade a few warriors? Every combat factor helps avoid being see as weak.

I don't want another LK45 dogpile of death.

Ok, looks like I'm up... I'll try and play the turns today evening, I'm going to play some Civ 2 multiplayer with my friend now...:D

1550BC [Preturn]: Now let's see how we are doing... Lots of barbs aroound, seems.

Press enter and hope I didn't forget something...

IBT: Mongols and Aztecs sign peace.

Lots of barbs attack a bowman on a mountain near Ashur, but we lose after some 5 of them. :(

130BC [1]: Curraghs move around.

IBT: Aztecs start the Great Wall..

110BC [2]: Curraghs explore.

IBT: A barb kills our workr, my fault. :cringe:

90BC [3]: Kill the barb horse that killed our worker.

IBT: Babylon builds the Statue of Zeus! :cool: Starts bowman.

Ellipi worker > library.
Zariqum worker > temple.

The Vikings start the Great Wall.
Romans start the Hanging Gardens.

70BC [4]: We are doing onnly -1gpt now... luckily we are getting the FP soon, that'll help at least a little.

IBT: Mongol demand Monotheism, I tell thm to get out of here. They don't declare... cowards...

Now the Zulu aso demand it. I think about it... they are strong, our army is tiny... I say no way. They declare war. Uh- oh. They bring 2 archers and a sword to our border. Was this so clever after all? I doubt it..

Ashur settler > settler.

50BC [5]: Switch Nippur from worker to bowman.

IBT: The Zulus bring some Impi's to the border.

The few barb horses near Ashur run around wildly, dunno where they are going to...

Babylon bowman > bowman.

Aztecs start Mausollos'.
Aztecs finish the Hanging Gardens.

30BC [6]: Rush bowman in Nippur for 52 gold.

Press enter in mistake. :cringe: Lots of things aren't done...

IBT: The Zulus bring loads of troops to the border. Too many for us. :(

Nippur bowman > bowman.
Eridu settler > bowman.
Eulbar harbor > bowman.

10BC [7]: Now the situation is bad. The save is here, I can continue but I think you need to tell me what I should do... :undecide:

Oops, forgot the save. Sorry, I forgot to rename it.

I cannot look at the save now. I could do that tonight and post tomorrow, but by then things will already have been discussed I guess :)

As a somewhat general comment... is it possible to hold them at our norther borders? If Impis start running around outside the forested area, we are going to have some trouble.
Most of all, we should try to ally with someone (possibly Rome) against the Zulus. Have we got money or techs to give them for a MA?

Other than that, I haven't got many ideas... good luck ;)

EDIT: I'll give a look at the save anyway, in case I come back in time

I cannot look at the save, but why did we say no? I would have personally said yes to both demands.

The first time when Rome demanded tech in my turns I said yes (by rules), and it immediately declared on Vikings.

That's also why I don't believe we could hold a tech for too long, to answer sesn's question.

Without seeing the save, I think we just fortify in our towns and pray. Let them capture a couple towns and sue for peace.

I'll look at the save and post in 2 hours.

IBT: Mongol demand Monotheism, I tell them to get out of here. They don't declare... cowards...

Why didn't we already sell Monotheism? We never should have had tech around in the first place!

=========================================

Now the Zulu also demand it. I think about it... they are strong, our army is tiny... I say no way.

Why did you refuse? You admitted our army sucks. The aggressive AI Zulu almost never backs down.

Repeating the game goal - PASSIVE cultural win!

=========================================

Press enter in mistake. Lots of things aren't done...
A reload is perfectly valid in this case unless you get to much knowledge from the IT.

=========================================

Now the situation is bad. The save is here, I can continue but I think you need to tell me what I should do...
I can't look at the save at this time, but the second the Zulu will talk take peace no matter how absurd the price. The only thing I want first is a Bowman to win for our GA.

I can look at the save, but it will be around 10 hours before I can comment.

=========================================

Most of all, we should try to ally with someone (possibly Rome) against the Zulus.
Remember the variant rules - peace as soon as free. We will have to break the alliance destroying our rep.

Why didn't we already sell Monotheism? We never should have had tech around in the first place!

I dunno about this. I was just plain stupid... and didn't even think of it. :blush: I am awful at trading, and there's always something I forget, no matter how well I try to play. :(




Why did you refuse? You admitted our army sucks. The aggressive AI Zulu almost never backs down.

I don't know. It was odd of me... Sorry. I guess I should go back to the tutorial... :wallbash:


A reload is perfectly valid in this case unless you get to much knowledge from the IT.

I didn't know this... :undecide:

I have thought about it, I will play the rest of the turns now... let's see if I can get this messed up a little worse...:rolleyes: :(

Oh well, here's the rest of the turnlog. Seems like we aren't in so much of a trouble so fast, but we'll eventually be unless we get some military.



10BC [7]: Trade MA with the Romans against the Zulu for Literature.

Kill a barb horse with a bowman.
Kill a barb horse with a warrior.
Kill the last barb horse with a warrior.
Kill a barb warrior with a warrior.

IBT: Looks like the MA saved us, most of the offending Zulu swords turn around towards Rome. :)

The Zulu attack Nippur with a reg sword, our vet bowman wins and we get a Golden Age. :D

The Zulu move all but a few archers and Impi's away from attacking us. They land an Impi and settler near Shuruppak, though.

Babylon bowman > swordsman.
Uruk builds the Forbidden Palace > bowman. We only have warriors around.

We get a palace expansion. :yeah:

10AD [8]: Move troops around, MM cities for GA.

I know this is late, but trade Mono to the Vikes for 56 gold.
Trade Mono to Mongolia for 20gold. :rolleyes:

Two vet bowmen kill 2 reg archers near Nippur, the Zulus only have 2 Impi's and one settler in our area now.

IBT: Our vet bowman kills a sword, but the Zulus now bring many into our view.

SoZ produces an AC.
Akkad lib > bowman.
Eridu bowman > bowman.
Samarra market > bowman.

30AD [9]: The Zulu still won't accept our emissary.

I see 5 swords now. This will get bloody.

Rush bowman in Nippur for 72 gold.

IBT: The Zulus have some 10 or so swords ready to attack Pisae, a Roman town. :eek:

Babylon sword > sword.
Ashur settler > settler.
Nippur bowman > bowman.
Uruk bowman > bowman.

50AD [10]: Move troops around.... The Zulus have acity in the middle of our empire, we should get it destroyed ASAP, although it's totally useless for them and will be totally corrupt.. we'll propably get a "free" city from it.

We have troops going North, I hope they get in time. The Zulus have a SoD near Pisae, it's gonna be tough.

We have 2 settlers in the Western area, I don't know where they should settle, but they are there accompanied with warriors.


Once more I apologise for the stupid moves I made. :wallbash: I should have understood our situation better, and not be so proud...

From the variant rules:
5) We must accept peace once the attack civ will give it to use for free. We are allowed to take concessions during the peace talks. This pretty much rules out alliances and MPPs.

Most of all, we should try to ally with someone (possibly Rome) against the Zulus.
Remember the variant rules - peace as soon as free. We will have to break the alliance destroying our rep.


10BC [7]: Trade MA with the Romans against the Zulu for Literature.

I don't know what to do that this point. We have broken the intent of the variant. Read number 5. Read my reminder comment. Despite that an alliance was signed.

[delete pointless suggestions]

I agree with Lee completely. Why did we sign the MA? I'd rather lose one city instead (and if we were lucky we wouldn't have, because I built that city on a hill). I was about to post a suggestion but now it's pointless so I deleted it.

We probably could continue to play and win, but the bigger problem is that I see people were not understanding the game and thus have chosen wrong tactics, or maybe just were in a haste to play by thinking this was an "easy" game.

I don't know what to do that this point. We have broken the intent of the variant. Read number 5. Read my reminder comment. Despite that an alliance was signed.


I know this, but there wasn't much to do at the point: there were loads of Zulus coming in... the MA saved us.


If you wish to replay my turns, feel free to do it, though..

I feel this game has violated the sprit of the variant.

I clearly failed on my wording on the variant rules. Signing alliances, and defiant attitude on our continent when are weak were not my game intentions. I have listed the rules again at the bottom of this post.

I want to hear comments from the other player on how they feel. Reread rule #7. IMHO we are not playing the spirit of the variant.

The options are to void the last 10 turns, or void the game. Let me know how you feel. I favor considering the game voided.

=======================================

The variant rules - this is meant to be a passive cultural win game as much as possible.

1) During despotism we must cave to all demands.

2) After despotism we have the right to refuse demands beyond cash / world map.

3) We may not demand other AI civs leave our territory, except for a clear sneak attack. If the Zulu and Vikings are fighting each other going through our territory we allow it.

4) Once spies arrive, we many only plant spies, and steal techs. I don't want other actions that are designed mainly to encourage war.

5) We must accept peace once the attack civ will give it to use for free. We are allowed to take concessions during the peace talks. This pretty much rules out alliances and MPPs.

6) We may not declare war except for the following reasons:
A) To stop a space launch
B) We hit 80K, but another civ has at least 40K. This still is meant to be a limited war.

7) When in doubt about actions please think about the spirit of the game.

I know this, but there wasn't much to do at the point: there were loads of Zulus coming in... the MA saved us.


Ankka, AI will talk in at most 10 turns, and at the end of you previous post there had been already 3 turns passed. As there are mostly jungles between Nippu and Eridu, we at most would have lost Nippu.

I am very sorry for the mistake I made. I should have read the rules more carefully.

I say let's dump the last 10 turns I played, the game was fine so far.

Ankka, AI will talk in at most 10 turns, and at the end of you previous post there had been already 3 turns passed. As there are mostly jungles between Nippu and Eridu, we at most would have lost Nippu.


That is true. I should perhaps go and read the articles in the Academy...

I will only accept one of the following:
1. Start from Akka's first post when we were at war with Zulu but before the MA.
2. Void the game. Fine with me.

This is the situation at Ankka's turn 7, for lurkers.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/LK69-10BC.jpg

I will only accept one of the following:
1. Start from Akka's first post when we were at war with Zulu but before the MA.
2. Void the game. Fine with me.


Choice #1 works for me. We have to live with our actions.
Ankka, please replay the last part of your turns after the Zulu declared war.

We have about 3 bowmen and a warrior(?) in Nippu. Since it's on hill I suggest we fortify all the units there without attacking. Let Zulu attack us.

The next thing is to defend Eridu at all cost. Do we have enough units? Rush some if don't. Turn off science now to save gold. The majority of Zulu's units won't be able to reach us before it could take peace, I think, but it's closest units may ignore Nippu and go directly to Eridu in 3 turns. So start reinforcing now.

At last, don't just sell Monotheism for nothing!

EDIT: saw Arathorn's post. I think it's up to Lee. I just checked we paid Lit for the MA so I don't think it will trash our trading rep. It will make Rome furious with us and probably make future MA impossible which we don't need anyway.

[/lurk]

Why not just suffer the rep hit and try to get past that? That's really paying for your actions but staying semi-true to the variant. Peace ASAP and pay for it the rest of the game....

[lurk]

Arathorn

[/lurk]

Why not just suffer the rep hit and try to get past that? That's really paying for your actions but staying semi-true to the variant. Peace ASAP and pay for it the rest of the game....

[lurk]

Arathorn


Part of the problem here is my intention was to prohibit alliances / MPP. I screwed up at the variant rules. I thought this pretty much rules out alliances / mpp was clear enough.

===================================

I am putting this game back on HOLD while I think about this more.

Now that I have somewhat calmed down about the game situation I can think about it more clearly.

1) The last turn violated my intentions on how the game was to play out.

2) The last turn followed the rules as written.


The summary based on this is as follows:
1) Ankka turn stands. Per the written rules he did nothing wrong.

2) I can't ask the turn to be changed because a player failed to read my mind.

3) The screw up was MINE. I wasn't clear enough on my intentions with alliances.

4) Back to playing the game with Karasu playing.

5) I have rewritten the rules a little, and the new set is to be used effective NOW. I have now expressly banned alliances / MPP as was my original intention.

=================================

Signed up:
LKendter (on deck)
Microbe
SesnOfWthr
Ankka
Karasu (currently playing)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.

The variant rules - this is meant to be a passive cultural win game as much as possible.

1) During despotism we must cave to all demands.

2) After despotism we have the right to refuse demands beyond cash / world map. However, our civ dislikes war. Is the item worth fighting over?

3) We may not demand other AI civs leave our territory, except for a clear sneak attack. If the Zulu and Vikings are fighting each other going through our territory we allow it.

4) Once spies arrive, we many only plant spies, and steal techs. I don't want other actions that are designed mainly to encourage war.

5) We must accept peace once the civ will give it to use for free. We are allowed to take concessions during the peace talks.

6) We are prohibited form signing alliances and MPPs.

7) We may not declare war except for the following reasons:
A) To stop a space launch
B) We hit 80K, but another civ has at least 40K. This still is meant to be a limited war.

8) When in doubt about actions please think about the spirit of the game.

Glad to see it's sorted out. :)

Back to game people! :hammer:

Let's sue for peace with Zulu asap. ;)

Wow!! I sure did miss a lot, huh? Amazing what happens when you're off painting your apartment all day.

FWIW, I would have voted for Microbe's "A", but I think playing it out is probably more appropriate.

I got a look at the game. I noticed that we are researching Theology @ 1st civ prices. Why are we researching at all? Microbe said it best - we need to keep the tech pace SLOW. Unless we are going for a specific wonder, we should NOT research at all. Or wait until more civs have the tech.

We need to hit 80K before a space launch. The slower the tech pace, the lower that risk.


On the game:
Why is there a Zulu settler / impi pair next to Nippur that is being ignored? Kill the settler and get us two workers.

Why is the bowman fortified outside of Eridu when the Zulu could attack the city? Either attack, or move the unit inside the city.

The second we get peace, please cancel all the military builds. We don't need a nation of bowman that has no useful upgrade path.

Theology was my oops. I figured that we would like to have Sistine's, so I set it to that at a slow pace.

Nice to see you sorted out. :)

I once more apologise for the messing up I did.



On the game:
Why is there a Zulu settler / impi pair next to Nippur that is being ignored? Kill the settler and get us two workers.


That was because we only had a reg bowman and two wounded vet bowmen around there IIRC and I didn't trust my RNG on attacking the Impi in a jungle.

Theology was my oops. I figured that we would like to have Sistine's, so I set it to that at a slow pace.

I agree we would really like Sistine. However, there is no sense researching it without a prebuild ready. We have NO prebuild.

============================

That was because we only had a reg bowman and two wounded vet bowmen around there IIRC and I didn't trust my RNG on attacking the Impi in a jungle.

Pain is what gets better, faster peace terms. A dead settler is pain, and workers for us. :D

============================

Signed up:
LKendter (on deck)
Microbe
SesnOfWthr
Ankka
Karasu (currently playing)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.

The variant rules - this is meant to be a passive cultural win game as much as possible.

1) During despotism we must cave to all demands.

2) After despotism we have the right to refuse demands beyond cash / world map. However, our civ dislikes war. Is the item worth fighting over?

3) We may not demand other AI civs leave our territory, except for a clear sneak attack. If the Zulu and Vikings are fighting each other going through our territory we allow it.

4) Once spies arrive, we many only plant spies, and steal techs. I don't want other actions that are designed mainly to encourage war.

5) We must accept peace once the civ will give it to use for free. We are allowed to take concessions during the peace talks.

6) We are prohibited form signing alliances and MPPs.

7) We may not declare war except for the following reasons:
A) To stop a space launch
B) We hit 80K, but another civ has at least 40K. This still is meant to be a limited war.

8) When in doubt about actions please think about the spirit of the game.

I apologize for contributing to this mess with my suggestion of an alliance.
It came almost automatic; I honestly didn't even stop to think whether it would be against the spirit of the variant or not.

I am glad to see that we decided to carry on with the game -imho it is still very interesting, and we *can* play it passively :)

Btw, I got it and will play tonight.

And:
- Get that Zulu settler
- Peace with Zulus and dear Caesar, thanks a lot for your help but sorry...
- Slow down research (I am not sure that the time is right to freeze a city on a prebuild for Sistine yet).
- Where do we want to settle the new cities?

BTW, remember that we are in a Golden Age now, we got a bowman win. It should be used to the max. We can get lots of gpt if we turn research to 0%. We should try and get the Zulu city that's in the middle of our lands before we make peace... I think it will fall with an AC and a couple of bowmen, at least. Shouldn't be hard...


Good luck, Karasu.

I see I cross- posted.

-I think we can get 3 or 4 cities on the small Western landarea, we have 2 settlers there now.
-You could also build cities on the two small islands SW from Babylon, there's even a boat waiting there.
-In the East there's nice area, 3 oasis' etc. some cities can be added there.
-If you make peace there are some holes in the North which can be filled, one is straight to the East from Eridu, the other one West. A tight build is good there, the cities are hopelessly corrupt.

Slow down research (I am not sure that the time is right to freeze a city on a prebuild for Sistine yet).
There is NO better time then now. We are in a GA. The best possible time to build wonders is during our GA. I would find our strongest shield city to put on a palace prebuild right now. We have plenty of military to survive the Zulu until peace comes. If fact we are building to much and to many regulars. We need markets to pay for the culture, and more culture. Our closet Rival is the Zulu - and they have throw away cutlure with ToA.

The 80K variants means that we will build Churches. It would be crazy not to get a double happy effect from it.

We have 2 good shield cities - Babylon, which is making 17spt (IIRC), and Uruk, the FP city, which is making 20spt, but 3 of them are lost due corruption.

Thanks for the inputs, mates. Keep it coming! :)

Uruk, the FP city, which is making 20spt, but 3 of them are lost due corruption.

Switch Uruk to a palace prebuild. During our GA we only need 35 turns to build Sistine. Keep developing Uruk and get it to grow more. As I said - Sistine with having to build churches - is just to good to pass up.

We want theology to finish close to the palace prebuild running out. The AI will get feudalism first giving us a good start.

I mean, things are back in track now: we are at peace with everyone and in a relatively good situation.

The 'problem', so to speak, is that the Zulus made peace with Rome before I had a chance to talk to them.

Anyway, here what happened.


Pre-turn
Switch Uruk to Palace (due in 24) and set science to 30% (Theology comes in 21 turns). We are now making 24 gpt.

Attack Zulu Impi, redline it and capture their settler. The two workers are ordered to build a road under the protection of our bowman.

Switch Eulbar and Samarra to Libraries, Babylon to Marketplace.
Upgrade warrior to sword in Ellipi.

There are still some remains of a barb uprising. I count six horsemen south of Samarra. Move a warrior from Babylon in its direction (may be too late).

Check Zulus, but they won't talk. Ok, let's go...

Zulus attack and conquer Pisae with only one unit lost. They move towards Nippur with five Swords, one Archer and two Impis

Turn 1 - 70 AD
I retreat our troops from Nippur towards Eridu. Our two swordsmen converge there too.
I choose not to disband the city in the (faint) hope that we can retake it or that it will eventually flip to us.

IT
Zulus move into Nippur. Many more swordsmen and archers come from Pisae. Lots of Swordsmen... maybe I should have abandoned Nippur...

Turn 2 - 90 AD
Move troops towards Eridu. Rush walls in Eridu.
Two bowmen and a Cav are going to take Umfolozi. When was it built? I'll have to wait for its border to expand before we can take it (one advantage of their having the ToA at least...).

IT
Several Zulu units advance towards Eridu.

Nineveh: Marketplace - Swordsman
Samarra: Library - Aqueduct

A barb horseman comes out of its hut (as if we hadn't got enough trouble already!)
Our little curragh is chased by a barb galley

Turn 3 - 110 AD
Ebenezer comes out of Uruk and kills the barb horse.
Three Babylonian warriors attack the crowded barb camp south of Samarra.

We have eight Bowmen fortified behind the walls of Eridu, and two Swordsmen arriving next turn. Let the Zulu come!

IT
This is strange. The Zulu attack force does not attack Eridu and goes back to Nippur.
Feudalism is around, everyone starts building Sun Tzu.

We get another Ancient Cavalry. I like this wonder :)

Turn 4 - 130 AD
Our warriors keep on attacking the barb camp.
Found Sippar in the western peninsula.
Wait at the gates of Umfolozi.
Workers approach Eulbar to start irrigating
The Zulu won't talk

IT
Strau Zulu impi moves towards Ashur. The Ancient Cavalry is waiting for him.
A Scandinavian galley appears along our coasts.

Turn 5 - 150 AD
Disperse two barb camps in our southern region.
Dispatch the wandering Impi, but the Ancient Cav is redlined.

IT
Babylon: Marketplace - Library
Nineveh: Swordsman - Cathedral (vetoable)
Umfolozi finally gets border expansion

Turn 6 - 170 AD
Attack Umfolozi: another super-Impi kills our Ancient Cavalry single-handed and blindfolded. But the bowman takes revenge and captures the city - Temple.

The Zulus won't talk peace yet.
I do not see Zulu troops around Eridu, and decide to send our forces towards Nippur.

IT
Nothing happens

Turn 7 - 190 AD
Approach Nippur. There *are* Zulu Swordsmen in the area!

IT
Zulu units swarm around us outside Nippur

Turn 8 - 210 AD
Our little stack reaches the gates of Nippur. Zulu Swordsmen are outside the city, Impis defend it.
They seem to have quite a lot of units -I am not sure I will attack, I'll probably have to wait for Shaka to hear our plea for peace...

IT
We are attacked by Zulus, who loose at least six Swordsmen for no losses on our side. Hey, Bows in forest defend themselves well!

Zulus sign peace with Rome!

Turn 9 - 230 AD
Shaka would take peace now, but as things are I am inclined to try and retake Nippur: we do not like war, but we do not like to leave our cities in enemy hands either!
Attack Nippur, and loose three Bowmen and one Swordsman against two Impis. But the city is taken back, and we capture a Zulu settler

Make peace with Zulus, we get Umtata far north in the deal.
Aztecs will talk too, and peace is signed.

Umtata starts building a Temple

IT
Zariqum: Library - Marketplace (vetoable)

Turn 10 - 250 AD
Mari founded on the little island in front of Babylon
Larsa founded among the oases
Nimrud founded east of Eridu

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/LK69-250AD.jpg


Notes
This is the situation. I'm fine with proceeding any way you like.

A few misc notes about play:
- There is a Scandinavian Archer-settler pair that just entered our territory. We have plenty of time to settle our free areas before they arrive.
- I should have probably started an Aqueduct in Uruk before the prebuild. As things are, we can keep it at size 6 until Sistine comes, or switch to Aqueduct wasting about four turns worth of shields.
- I have left science at 20%. We are making 68 gpt and Theology is coming in 16 turns.
- Zulus and Rome lack Monotheism and could sell us Feudalism. Aztecs are up Feudalism and Engineering. I didn't start any deal.


--- Here is the save --- (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/LK69-250AD.zip)

Nice job there, and good thing Rome broke the alliance and not us. :D


Should we build a city on the 1- tile island a little SW from the new city on the bigger island?
Looks like we have space for 4 cities with a fairly loose build, or more with a tighter one...

Signed up:
LKendter (currently playing)
Microbe (on deck)
SesnOfWthr
Ankka
Karasu

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.

The variant rules - this is meant to be a passive cultural win game as much as possible.

1) During despotism we must cave to all demands.

2) After despotism we have the right to refuse demands beyond cash / world map. However, our civ dislikes war. Is the item worth fighting over?

3) We may not demand other AI civs leave our territory, except for a clear sneak attack. If the Zulu and Vikings are fighting each other going through our territory we allow it.

4) Once spies arrive, we many only plant spies, and steal techs. I don't want other actions that are designed mainly to encourage war.

5) We must accept peace once the civ will give it to use for free. We are allowed to take concessions during the peace talks.

6) We are prohibited form signing alliances and MPPs.

7) We may not declare war except for the following reasons:
A) To stop a space launch
B) We hit 80K, but another civ has at least 40K. This still is meant to be a limited war.

8) When in doubt about actions please think about the spirit of the game.

Looking very, very good. :goodjob:

I meant to ask this before, but forgot, so I ask now. Where did you get those borders, LKendter? I haven't so far found those in the Graphics modpacks section... They look very nice, and I have started to dislike my clanky ones which are well visile but not so neat.

Where did you get those borders, LKendter?
I edited the border files myself. You won't find them anywhere.

It is the same thing for the thick black lined roads.

250 AD
I send Monotheism and $275 to Rome and we get Feudalism.

I switch Ashur to courthouse and partial rush with the cash left.

The area I am very unhappy with is our military. It is still mostly warriors. We have zero defense units. We have very little is useful offensive units either.

260 AD
(IT) The Aztecs complete the <insert wonder here> Tenochtitlan. That city is becoming a cultural monster.


270 AD
(IT) The Mongols complete the Great Wall. This is actually good news as the cascade is breaking.

310 AD
(IT) The Vikings complete the Great Lighthouse.


320 AD
(IT) Our GA has ended. :(
We suffer a single city riot - the bad part is it is our settler city.


330 AD
Zamua is formed. It claims a junk jungle area.
We destroy a barb camp.

We have a trade route with the Vikings. I ship them $41/turn for Engineering. To not put out rep as risk I ship them Dyes for $6/turn, Ivory for $7/turn, and Furs for $7/turn recovering a lot of our gpt.


350 AD
I rush some temples.


Summary:
Our current total is 2,531 vs. the Zulu 1,451. We gained 680 over 10 turns, while the Zulu gained just 339. When you consider a lot of that comes from ToA it looks good so far. The trick is the second we can get education we must give it the Zulu. ToA expires with education.

We still need a lot more culture to win. At this current growth rate we need over 1,000 turns to win. The rate will be improving as many cities are barely through the cheap temples. We still need more cities, libraries, churches, and the later wonders.

At some point we will want to chase the high culture wonders - Bach's, Shakespeare, and the big economy help of Smith's.

The better part is that our economy handles it much better then the last time I saw the game.

We have some cities that are free to build military because they already have churches. We still need coliseums, but at just 2 cp for 100 shields they are a lower priority. We are weak vs. every one except the Romans.

Signed up:
LKendter
Microbe (currently playing)
SesnOfWthr (on deck)
Ankka
Karasu

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.

The variant rules - this is meant to be a passive cultural win game as much as possible.

1) During despotism we must cave to all demands.

2) After despotism we have the right to refuse demands beyond cash / world map. However, our civ dislikes war. Is the item worth fighting over?

3) We may not demand other AI civs leave our territory, except for a clear sneak attack. If the Zulu and Vikings are fighting each other going through our territory we allow it.

4) Once spies arrive, we many only plant spies, and steal techs. I don't want other actions that are designed mainly to encourage war.

5) We must accept peace once the civ will give it to use for free. We are allowed to take concessions during the peace talks.

6) We are prohibited from signing alliances and MPPs.

7) We may not declare war except for the following reasons:
A) To stop a space launch
B) We hit 80K, but another civ has at least 40K. This still is meant to be a limited war.

8) When in doubt about actions please think about the spirit of the game.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/LK69-350AD.zip

The two dot maps below are additions cities we want.

The 3 dots below are all LOW priority. They are inside our current borders. White will need the marsh cleared. Some of these are aggressive, but we need more cities. A flip or two would help our position.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/LAK-412.jpg


I just realized how horrible the placement of Uruk was. The white line shows the massive wastage of tiles. I marked where Uruk should have been. It is way too late to fix this, as it contains the FP, and an early temple. Not to mention the pre-build for Sistine. I really don't like yellow dot, but it is the best way to reclaim the wasted land.

Outside of yellow dot, the below dot's are the priority cities. The AI will be most likely to go after the junk grey dot, so let us claim that first.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/LAK-413.jpg

These 9 cities still will probably still not be enough to win, but it gets us a lot closer.

preturn: nothing to change.

IBT Nippur completes a temple but riots.

(1)360AD: We irrigated a tile that no one can use? :hmm:

(2)370AD: Aztecs has Theology! We then get it in one turn. :lol: I buy it for 11g. I then buy Invention from Mongols with Theology+183g.

Min research to Printing Press. Switch Sun Tzu's to Sistine Chapel.

IBT Aztecs demands 26g, I cave.

(3)380AD: Zulu gets Chivalry but not Engineering/Theology, so I give him Engineering for Chivalry+40g+2gpt. I didn't give Theology, although it is closer to Education, I don't want it to cascade to Sistine.

(4)390AD: Not sure how this settler factory works in Ashur, now it grows to size 7 in one turn and settler due in 3 turns. I short-rush settler and make it grow to size 7 and builds a settler in 2 turns.

(5)400AD: There is a Viking settler/archer pair in our territory. I move units to block it.

(6)410AD: I think we should start prebuild for Copernicus? I set Samanrra to Knights Templar for now.

(7)420AD: Found Khorsabad. Disband a reg warrior.

(8)430AD: Disease hits Eridu. I rush library in it. I'm going to build a worker next. We need a lot more of them.

IBT Mongols builds KT.

(9)440AD: ZZ

IBT Palace expansion.

(10)450AD: Culture wise we have 102cpt, and Zulu has 35cpt in last turn. We are almost triple it. ;) Total culture is 3456 vs 1801. I don't think we need to give Education to Zulus anymore.

We are short of workers. After all spots are settled we need to build more workers. Maybe one of them can switch to worker now.

450AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/LK69-450AD.zip)

About the yellow dot, how about one of the following?

EDIT: Lee's yellow dot will utilize all the 8 tiles marked by the white line. The following two will still waste 2 or 3 tiles..so I think Lee's one is still better. So to avoid confusion I remove the image, but the link is here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/LK69-450AD.jpg).

I like the blue better, but it's a shame to miss the river by a tile ....

After a second thought I think Lee's original yellow dot is better, so just follow his dotmap.

Whatever the case, I got it.

(6)410AD: Samanrra set to KT as prebuild for Copernicus.

I think we should start prebuild for Copernicus?

If the city has already build temple, library and church - go for it!

=========================

Lee's yellow dot will utilize all the 8 tiles marked by the white line. The following two will still waste 2 or 3 tiles..so I think Lee's one is still better.
This is one of the closet cities to the capitol. My suggestion was to give it the best shot at size 12. Two tiles are more valueable, then a river toward that goal.

Signed up:
LKendter
Microbe
SesnOfWthr (currently playing)
Ankka (on deck)
Karasu

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.

The variant rules - this is meant to be a passive cultural win game as much as possible.

1) During despotism we must cave to all demands.

2) After despotism we have the right to refuse demands beyond cash / world map. However, our civ dislikes war. Is the item worth fighting over?

3) We may not demand other AI civs leave our territory, except for a clear sneak attack. If the Zulu and Vikings are fighting each other going through our territory we allow it.

4) Once spies arrive, we many only plant spies, and steal techs. I don't want other actions that are designed mainly to encourage war.

5) We must accept peace once the civ will give it to use for free. We are allowed to take concessions during the peace talks.

6) We are prohibited from signing alliances and MPPs.

7) We may not declare war except for the following reasons:
A) To stop a space launch
B) We hit 80K, but another civ has at least 40K. This still is meant to be a limited war.

8) When in doubt about actions please think about the spirit of the game.

480 ad – Paople expand the palace. Hindana, Tell Wilaya, and Karana founded. All three start temples.

510 ad – Education and gunpowder are now available, but we have no way to buy either. 132g and 38 gpt is getting close for education

530 ad – Some of our deals expire, jumping our income to 78 gpt. We can get education for cash on hand plus 53 gpt. Do we still want to do this even though we’re so far ahead? I also don’t understand how to calculate “market value” for techs, so I’ll hold off on this one. Adab founded this turn.

540 ad – Another palace expansion. Telloh is founded near Uruk.

550 ad – Not a whole lot going on.

My turns were spent moving units, improving the land and trushing a few temples, with the highlights listed above.


>>>SAVE<<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/LK69-550AD.zip)

I think we should pump up research on PP to get it in 10 turns, then trade for those techs?

Depends on how fast we can get Education... not a bad idea, though. That will speed the tech pace, though... Do the Zulu's have education? If they do, all this is worthless, their ToA will already be expired before we can give it to them.