PTW Succession Game
Difficulty: Emperor
Civ: Arabia
Goal: Spaceship Victory

The roster:
RowAndLive
DJMGator13
Zarth
jb1964
rrau

Not a signup.


Maybe you would like to tell something about the game you're planning, ,like the difficulty, civ etc.


Good luck.

Alright then, here it is:

Civ3PTW v1.27f
Civ: Arabia
Difficulty: Emperor

World Size: Large
Continents
Climate: Normal
Temperature: Temperate
Age: 4 Billion
Raging Barbarians
11 random AI players
Default rules with Respawn AI Players off
All victory types are allowed, but...

Special rule:we want a SPACESHIP VICTORY

the starting location:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/PTW_succession.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/PTW_minimap.JPG

anyone interested?

@Zarth,

I could be interested in this, although Emporer is above my level of solo play. Also, I'm in 2 SGs with spaceship victory conditions right now, so if it's up for discussion that would be good.

I'm comfortable playing on Emporer. I am currently participating in my very first SG as part of Team akots in SGOTM2.

Do you have a target date for the space victory in mind, ie pre1900 launch?

Not a signup, but not saying I won't sign up either... need to check to see how full my plate is, but I'll at least lurk this one.

I think a pre 1900 launch should be possible to achieve. I was more thinking of launching somewhere around 1500-1600 or even earlier.

@RowAndLive
In succession games I think you can play a little above your normal level of play, because we can discuss what to do before the next player plays his turns.


Additional rules:
24 hours for "got it"
48 to play your turns

@Zarth - Agreed. I'm doing so in several now.

Emperor is above my solo combat level. The highest I have ever tried is Monarch and I have won about 75% of those.

Anyway, I have just gotten into SG's and have found them to be a great way to really enjoy a complete game without investing so much time. And I hope it's correct to say I'm learning quite a bit and my play is getting better.

Anyway, sign me up. This will the SG #4 for me. I can usually finish my turns in 24 hours without much problem. At least I can through the ancient and middle ages. :)

I think a pre 1900 launch should be possible to achieve. I was more thinking of launching somewhere around 1500-1600 or even earlier.


Sounds real good. I need to work on my tech trading and AI research path preferences. So a 1500-1600 launch would be incredible to acheive.

OK, Zarth, we have 4 plus a potential with Scoutsout. How many were you looking for? Let's post the roster and get started. It looks like a gift of a start to found right where we stand.

We have four players now:

RowAndLive
DJMGator13
jb1964
Zarth

One more player and we should be ready to start playing. Any volunteers for playing the first couple of turns?

Btw. First player plays 20 turns, after that it's 10 for everyone.

I don't mind starting, but I'm comfortable wherever you fit me in.

If you're willing to help someone through their first succession game, I'll sign up. I've been lurking the sgotm2 threads and the succession games sound like a good way to learn. :)

I don't mind starting either. Since Zarth is the creator of the game I defer to his roster order.

Row, I would grab it and go.

alright here we go!

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/PTW_4000_BC.SAV)

here is the roster:
RowAndLive
DJMGator13
Zarth
jb1964
rrau

So, RowAndLive go and grab it!

Got it. Will post later today.

Row,

I looked at the opening save (did not play any). My opening move would be for the worker to move East to the BG, take the Scout SW then SE (net is a 1 S move) trying to open up the rest of the possible coastline. After those two moves, see if moving the settler is advantagous. Currently I like the starting spot for the settler.

After a quick review of our competitors there is only 1 first tier tech (The Wheel) which is unknown. The only 2nd tier tech available for us to study is MYST, which puts us on a face track towards POLY & MON. Our two starting techs are the 2 most known in the game, so we need early/first contacts with other civs to get any trade value from them until we learn something else.

Good luck on your opening sequence. Dont forget you get the first 20 turns, then its 10 turns after that

4000 – 1
Ann (worker) E, Tiger (scout) SW (nada), SE to hill revealing game 1S & wheat 2W,
Found Mecca on hill near river exposing another BG 2N.
Mecca: > scout
Research wheel at 20%.

IBT: zzz

3950 – 2
Ann mines, Tiger WN revealing G N & more plains and trees W to NW.

IBT: zzz

3900 – 3
Tiger W,NW revealing water 2NW, WNW & 2W, hills NNW

IBT: zzz

3850 – 4
Tiger NNW revealing more water extending N & small island, many grass N of Mecca, but no BGs.

IBT: zzz

3800 – 5
Tiger N sees water is definitely ocean, not lake, E sees water NNE.

IBT: Mecca scout > warrior in 5

3750 – 6
Wolf (scout) SWS, Tiger NE,NW confirming coastal wrap around N to NE

IBT: zzz

3700 – 7
Tiger 2E sees 4 BG available to this spot & 5 available if he were 1SW from present (or 3N 1NW from Mecca), Wolf SWS reveals range of coastal hills to E & mountains starting to S, gold 1SW.

IBT: Ann finally finishes mine (I prefer industrious workers…)

3650 – 8
Wolf 2S to hill that could be a canal city. Another tile 2SW could also be a canal city, but no others here. Sees whales ESE, and wheat 2W, more mountains S.
Ann roads. Tiger ESE to game tile, another game S, and GH SW.

IBT: zzz

3600 – 9
Tiger to GH & pops a village!
Medina has 3BG, 2 game, 1 forest & 2 grass, plus 5 more BG, 3 grass & 1 forest on expansion! Not coastal. Medina > warrior in 4.
Wolf SW to mountain reveals desert to SW, mountains S.

IBT: Mecca: warrior > settler in 10.

3550 – 10
Tiger S,E mant grass, looks like full wrap of coast.
Wolf, SW,W sees more desert.
Al (warrior) S

IBT: Mecca expands, Ann completes road.

3500 – 11
Change Medina build to rax in 12.
Al S. Tiger E,N confirms coastline. Wolf W,N to mountain sees more desert to SW, forested plains W & 2S. Ann WNW.

IBT: zzz

3450 – 12
Ann irrigates (in 4). Al S. Wolf 2SW. Tiger 2S.

IBT: zzz

3400 – 13
Tiger 2W. Al SW. Wolf NWN.

IBT: zzz

3350 – 14
Wolf NWN revealing many plains & coastal wrap. Al SW. Tiger NWW.

IBT: zzz

3300 – 15
Tiger SWW. Al SW. Wolf N (sees fish NNW) W sees more desert.

IBT: zzz

3250 – 16
Tiger WSW to coastal forest. Sees fish 2SW. Ann roads. Al S to neck. Wolf NWN to good city site (on river, coastal, FP w/wheat SW, 2 fish, gold NNW, 2 plains)

IBT: zzz

3200 – 17
Wolf NWN sees GH SW, fish NNE, river runs through plains to mtns W.
Tiger SES confirms coast, sees GH SW. Al S.

IBT: zzz

3150 – 18
MM lux to 40% to get OK & unhappy in Mecca to happy & OK for a cost of only 2gpt.
Al N. Wolf SW finds village deserted, sees yellow border to far W. Wolf W sees 2 Ottoman spears 2S.
Opponents are (from F10): Persians, Babs, Zulu, Ottomans, Iroquois, French, English, Celts, Spanish, Vikings, Carthaginians
Contact Ottomans: 2 cities, 10g, up BW & Mas, down Pottery & CB
Osman wants Pot, CB, 34g for Masonry. BW is less, but can’t get trade for BW without both of our techs. Yet both of our techs will get us BW + 10g & he’d give more, but no gpt. Can get BW for CB, 39g +3gpt or Pot, 39g +3gpt.
3gpt would put lux @30% and Mecca at 1 happy, 1 unhappy, so no go.
Hold off trading for now.
Tiger SW gets maps from Circassian tribe clearing local fog.

IBT: Ottoman spears move toward their city.

3100 – 19
Wolf SW,NW to mountain. Sees Istanbul 2W, warrior 1W, lake 2SW, river on NW edge of Istanbul, 1 mined grass, 1 unhooked BG.
Tiger NEN. Ann NE to cow. Al fortifies on neck mountain.
It turned out that we only needed 1g more!
Buy BW from Osman for CB, 57g +2gpt. I’d rather give him happiness instead of growth if I can’t get both of his.

IBT: Medina riots. Add harem dancer.

3050 – 20
Ann roads. Tiger E, can’t seem to get a view of the tile W of the island to confirm it as a 1 tiler.

Thoughts:
Wolf has yet to move this turn.
Mecca is currently set to grow & pop settler in 3, don’t mess with it.
Medina needs a MP garrison when it can get one, whether from home or Mecca.
There is very much land to the S & SW that needs exploring.
Medina will be a great military builder once the barracks is done.
We’re leading by ~20 points, but the Ottos have double our power.

Enjoy!

Here is the map:

Got it.

I'll probably play this evening after work.

Preturn thoughts

Move Wolfe - check

Mecca settler in 3 grow in 3 - check - after settler building a rax to replace the rax in Medina

Medina great military builder once barracks - True, but if Medina's Rax is switched to a Gran, Medina can be a 4 turn settler factory by mining the 3 BG and by irr and mine one each of the Games, plus the 2 forest chops will help along the granary project. Let it grow to size 5 and it will produce +5 food and +8 sheilds (w/o corruption).

I'll probably play in a few hours so let me know if there are any suggestions to this plan,

I like the idea of 2 settler factories. I would like a town just E of wheat below where our peninsula connects as this will help cut down transportation around the peninsula in the future. Probably won't be a productive city, but may be good for worker factory, or early slow warrior factory - the only problem will be getting a barracks built. Just my 0.02.

That's fine. I didn't think the 2 game could supply enough food, but for some reason my brain skipped clearing & improving those tiles.

What we could do is get a city with barracks producing 5 or perhaps even 10 shields per turn. This city can pump out veteran warriors and once we have about 15 warriors we could hook up some iron and upgrade them giving us 15 swordsmen to kill those Otto's.

For this we would need to save some money of course. I dont know exactly how much upgrading warriors to swordsmen costs.

The same thing could be done with chariots => horsemen.

The advantage of horsemen being that they have two movements points and the ability to retreat, but they 2 attack points instead of the swordsmens 3 attack points. Also warriors cost 10 shields and chariots 20 shields.

What we could do is get a city with barracks producing 5 or perhaps even 10 shields per turn. This city can pump out veteran warriors and once we have about 15 warriors we could hook up some iron and upgrade them giving us 15 swordsmen to kill those Otto's.

For this we would need to save some money of course. I dont know exactly how much upgrading warriors to swordsmen costs.

In C3C it cost 60gold to upgrade warrior to sword, for some reason I think it was only 40gold in van CivIII. Would PTW upgrade be the same as Van CivIII? I have a few saves I can check out.

I did not finish up my turns last night but will fininsh and post tonight.

For this we would need to save some money of course. I dont know exactly how much upgrading warriors to swordsmen costs.

The same thing could be done with chariots => horsemen.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/upgrade_chart.jpg

A little help from your friendly neighborhood lurker :D

MistFit, thanks for the input.

I would work on expansion and exploration for the time being. We can hold the Ottomans off at the choke if they get nasty.

Two settler factories are a good tact.

I have not d/l'ed anything yet. How are we doing on science? What is the current thinking on research path?

I agree. We're still in the depths of the land grab phase, and no where close to conquest, especially with Osman being so far away. How far? It's SO FAR that by the time our swords get there, he'll have rev'ed from spears to muskets.... ;)

Preturn 3050BC
Medina can become a 4turn settler factory by working the CNTR, 3mBG, mGgame and iGgame will yield +5food +8 shields (w/o corr) even at 7spt it would be OK from the 5-6 growth and shield increase.

Medina is not growing due to Clown & no MP - we really need a worker there to get 4 turn settler factory going. We have enough shields to complete Temple even in disorder (1 shield is wasted) - allowing next build to be a worker than granary. I make the switch. (Barracks would be due in 3 turns but we would still have the unhappiness problem.)

Wolf SW S

Turn 1 - 3000BC
Medina no longer roiting and temple is built
Medina temple => worker
Tiger E S / Wolf S E

Turn 2 - 2950BC
Wolf SE S (spies GH) / Tiger SE SE
mm Mecca from Cattle to irr grass for the commerce (we get +2gpt w/ Lux slider to 20% - good only for 1 turn)

Turn 3 - 2900BC
Mecca settler => granary (Mecca now size 1)
Settler SW / Ann irrigates Cattle / Tiger SE S / Wolf W SW to GH (learn Warrior Code [dance] )
Lux to 0% +1 gpt

Turn4 - 2850BC
Medina worker (Zook) => granary
Zook NE / settler SW / Tiger SE S / Wolf E S

Turn 5 - 2800BC
Zook starts chop to help Granary / settler W / Tiger SW / Wolf E S (finds Spices)

Turn 6 - 2750BC
Wolf SW S / Tiger S / settler W
Value of Pottery went down 10 gold this turn from 50 to 40 - I sell to Ottos for 45 (not sure if this was a good move but it was quickly becoming useless in a trade)

Turn 7 - 2710BC
Tiger S / settler founds DAMASCUS set to warrior / Ann SE SE / Wolf S

Turn 8 - 2670BC
Wolf SE E / Tiger S E / Ann SE

Turn 9 - 2630BC
Ann starts chop / Tiger SE S (spies Ivory) / Wolf N NE (spies a GH)

Turn 10 - 2590BC
Wolf NE to GH (stupid map :sad: ) SE / Tiger S SE

Notes to next player:
I started 2 chops to help with granaries.
I placed Damascus at RCP5 like Medina.
Unless there is a land bridge it looks like it may be us and the Ottos here, as of now.

Here is the 2590BC Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/PTW_2590__BC.SAV) EDITTED: I fixed the link

I did a RCP5 map, RCP5 is normally 12 cities but we are missing the eastern side of our ring.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Zarths2590BCring.jpg

your link to the save isn't working, here is theworking link (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/PTW_2590__BC.SAV) to the save.

btw, got it

0 2590 i press enter

1. 2550
wolf SW
tiger W W

2. Damascus finishes warrior, start granary
wolf E
Tiger NW, barbarian camp found (two warriors) => start moving fortified Al on choke point towards it
Tiger W

3. 2470
Tiger N N
Wolf N NW
Warrior start moving towards choke
luxuries to 10 % to prevent riot in mecca, science back to 10

4. 2430
Tiger N N
Wolf NW NW

5. 2390
forest cut down near Medina, Zook starts mining. Medina will grow in 4 turns, granary in 5.
Wolf NW NW
Tiger NW NW

6. 2350
Al kills barbarian warrior
Wolf NW W
Tiger W NW
Medina needs 10 more shields for the granary shields and 8 food to grow to size 3 @ +3 shields per turn and +3 food. I am going to switch the citizen working the game square to a forest for 1 turn to make sure the granary is finished, before the city grows.

7 2310
Wolf NW NW
Tiger W N, I spot another barbarian warrior E E of the spices
hire a tax collector in damascus to keep them from rioting (luxuries would have had to go to 50% otherwise)

8 2270
Tiger NW NW
Wolf W W
luxuries to 30% to keep mecca happy

9 2230
mecca finishes granary, start worker
medina, finishes granary, start settler
ann mine
al destroys barbarian camp, but is red now
Tiger N N
Wolf W W

10 2230
Al killed by barbarians
Tiger N NW
Wolf W W


Thoughts:
Medina is about to go into disorder, luxuries to 50% will prevent this and make us able to fire the tax collector in Damascus
Wheel in 1 turn, the Ottomans dont have it yet
The warrior is moving south, there is still one barbarian warrior there
It's gonna be a hard game if it's only us and the ottos here.


the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/PTW_2190_BC.SAV)

Turn 0: OK, we have an irrigated grassland. In despotism irrigating the grassland gives us no bonus. Lux up to 50%, ugh! Put tax collector to work in Damascus. I change Medina over to a worker until we get warriors for MP duty. We could use the worker and bring down the lux tax.

IBT: Wheel comes in and I research HBR. Mecca worker to warrior. Osman won’t part with IW so I trade him wheel for Masonry and 40g.

Turn 1: 2150BC, We send worker to mine the irrigated grassland. Set Median worker to road the game. Bringing warrior back to mountain chokepoint.

IBT: Medina worker to warrior in 4. Can’t MM any better.

Turn2: 2110BC, Damascus still demands 50% luxury tax so I switch from granary to spear losing 3 sheilds. I get the spear in 1 so I hire a tax collector and reduce the luxury slider down to 0 and science to 100%. HBR coming in 29 turns but that will decrease as we get roads and generate more income. The new Medina worker is sent to road a bonus grass rather than the game forest because I want to chop the forest for a barracks prior to spending extra turns putting in the road.

IBT: Damascus spear to warrior. I misread the faces in Mecca and they riot losing a turn of productivity. The lux/science split is 20/80 to keep the peace.

Turn3: 2070BC,
Put tax collector in Damascus back to work. Scout.

Mecca warrior to warrior. Grows to 3.

Turn 4: 2030BC,
Hire a tax collector in Media to keep the peace. Warrior still coming next turn.

IBT: Barb comes in after scout. Medina

Turn 5: 1990BC, Can’t take full movement for Wolf due to barb.

IBT: Mecca warrior to temple.

Turn 6: 1950BC, Wolf can’t move farther south thanks to barb posted on the mountain.
With second warrior on Mecca I can set science to 100%. Extra warrior in Damascus is going to no good. The city’s not growing and wont without irrigation. I switch over to worker to start road and irrigation to plains.

IBT: Damascus worker to warrior. Growth in 7 and warrior in 5.

Turn 7: 1910BC, Mecca grows to 4 and needs some lux so I push it up to 10%. Temple in 3 and next growth in 4. Barbs coming down off the mountain so Wolf has to run.

IBT: Medina warrior to settler. Growth and settler in 5.

Turn 8: 1870BC, Mecca now has 4 extra food for 3 turn growth. Can’t squeeze it down to 2. Moving both workers in Mecca to irrigate towards Damascus. Wolf running back north to scout Ottoman territory.

IBT: Zzzz

Turn 9: 1830BC, Set workers to irrigate. Move scouts.

IBT: Mecca temple to settler. Growth in 4 and settler in 4. Growth can be cut to 3 if you switch worker to irrigated plains next turn with settler still coming in 4 turns.

Turn 10: 1790BC, Zzzzz

Notes:
Forest chop at Medina will complete 2 turns after settler pops.
I would like to shuffle the warrior at the choke w/ the spear on Damascus.
HBR in 19 turns w/ science at 50%; Lux is at 10%; Gold is at 39 w/ -1gpt
Map making might have been a better tech so we could find some other civs and make trades.

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/PTW_1790_BC.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Slide1.JPG

got it, will try to play tonight

Turn 0: OK, we have an irrigated grassland. In despotism irrigating the grassland gives us no bonus.

If its the irrigated cattle tile it does give an extra food. I think irrigated wheat also gives a bonus even in Despotism.

preflight OK

1790(1)

Damascus-worker NE to plains to get irrigation to wheat
Mecca-Ann&other worker finish irrigation-road
Tiger sw w
Wolf - really no where else to explore tiger should finish in N before he can get there - options, disband or try to sneak around barb hut far to the W. Will try to sneak around
IBT
damascus warr-temp(vetoable but having trouble with happiness, also having trouble with treasury). Fortify war & send spear south to choke and bring war at choke back to damascus

1725(2)
wolf ended turn next to barb :(
tiger s s
Damascus worker irrigates
medina worker finished mining bg, moved s to another bg
IBT
wolf dies
medina settler - spear (thought chop would finish him in two turns without waste)

1700(3)
Medina's settler SE toward lowest ring 5 city position on E side
Medina worker#1 set to mine bg
Mecca's workers to plains NE of city to begin irrigation toward medina for SF
tiger sw w
IBT
mecca settler-settler(pop4, grows in 4 with settler in 4 :) )

1675(4)
mecca's stacked workers begin irrigation of plains
settler s
Tiger s
IBT
Medina's worker completes chop,but spear lacks 2 shields (now only 3spt after chop :blush: - in the future I'll try to remember to switch to another forest tile if I need the shields that turn) Options:complete spear or switch to settler, will complete spear as settler would drop pop too low at this time

1650(5)
Medina's game worker begins road on game
Tiger SW
IBT
Medina spear-settler

1625(6)
spear from medina w to look for barbs, then will swing s to join at choke
Mecca's workers finish irr & move NE to another plains with out roading to get water to medina on time
Damascus's worker finishes irr of plains and roads
Tiger sw s. Has explored most of area N of Ottomans except for a few tiles to NE. Will start him back that way next turn.
:confused: on my F1 check this turn, I noted medina and mecca both have pop of 4, both have 2 mps and a temple and no lux's, but mecca has 1 happy and 3 content and medina has four content. Does anyone know why? Does the capital get a bonus of some kind that I don't know about?
IBT :sleep:

1600(7)
Mecca's 2 workers irrigate plains
Baghdad founded :) (2spt) warrior
IBT
Mecca settler - settler (pop3, growth in 3, settler in 5)
Receive word Ottomans are building the Oracle

1575(8)
F7 reveals Ottomans are building the Pyramids in Istanbul and the Oracle in Bursa
Najran Founded :) (3spt) warrior
Mecca's settler sw heading toward crp8 city site, but with Najran, might consider the desert below the choke instead as it will give us the wheat and still allow our ships a shortcut (i think this site is distance 10, but would be further than our ring 8 cities and won't affect their corruption)
Spear from medina confirms nw peninsula currently clear of barbs, would probably send medina's next settler this way
IBT :sleep:

1550(9)
spear sw (mean to click s but misclicked)
Medina's worker 1 has finished mining BG. Road it for $
Medina's worker 2 has finished r on grassland s of game - begins irrigation
Mecca's stacked workers finished irrigation (perfect timing) and start road of irrigated plains
settler s
Damascus's worker finished road and after thought (maybe too much) I conclude that if wheat is irrigated first, would grow too fast and have happiness problems, so I move him to forest to start a chop and will likely need to either help get a settler out after the temple or it can be used to help get a rax the wheat still needs to be irrigated
IBT :sleep:

1525(10)
spear s
settler s
MM Medina - taxman

Note: with our shrinking treasury and no completion of a tech during my turns, I didn't even check to see about trades.

Nice turn sets everyone. Got it, and will hope to post some time tomorrow.

Now I see the method behind the madness. Irrigating the cow was a good move but we had to get the water there through a grass tile. When I saw the irrigated grass I just scratched my head. Now we know my head was empty (except for the various voices that bounce around in there).

If I have not posted it in this SG thread already....

I'll be out on vacation from the 12th through the 19th.

If I don't get eaten by a tiger shark I'll see ya'll the evening of the 19th.

Nice set rrau. Good thinking on the irrigation of the wheat. Without any luxuries hooked up keeping our population happy and productive is going to be a trick. Or just expensive.

Do we push settlers up towards the Ottoman teritory to grab the spice and fill between that and the ivory? We'll need to send our people somewhere if keeping low population is needed. But out in the open we'll need forces to discourage getting plinked by Osman. Thinking of and implementing a plan to take the Ottomans out should be high on our list. At least we have horses. If we go for the Ivory we might be able to build SoZ. Would be very handy if we're deprived of iron. Would actually be handy no matter what.

I would be nice for the ottomans to build us a couple of wonders, before we take their cities.

If we go for the Ivory we might be able to build SoZ. Would be very handy if we're deprived of iron. Would actually be handy no matter what.

What is a SoZ exaxtly?

What is a SoZ exaxtly?

Statue of Zeus - produces 1 Ancient Calvary every 5 turns - unfortunately it is a C3C Great Wonder (and requires ivory).

Too many SG's. Not enough brainpower.

2 w/ C3C v1.15
1 w/ C3C v1.22
1 w/ PTW

The save wass not a valid save file. Please re-upload.

The save wass not a valid save file. Please re-upload.

Hey Row, try this one. My download of the save seemed to be fine.

1525BC Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/PTW_1525_BC.SAV)

Hey Row, try this one. My download of the save seemed to be fine.

thanks DJMGator, I had to work this AM

1525 – 0
set preferences. Warrior S from Mecca, warrior from Damascus toward mecca on road.

IBT:

1500 – 1
Tiger WNW, settler to Najran, warrior S, warrior to Mecca, Ann & crew E, spear rests

IBT: Medina settler > warrior, Baghdad warrior > rax, Najran warrior > warrior

1475 – 2
settler & Nate S from Najran, Dave S toward Najran, Ann & crew road, Medina settler W,S,W, Fay W, Spear rests, Tiger 2S, Earl rests, Greg forts

IBT: Mecca settler > settler, Damascus temple > warrior

1450 – 3
Spike (spear) rests, Fay road, Med settler W, Zook road, Dave to Najran, Nate & settler SW, Tiger S, Earl & Mec settler SW
Osman 8 cities (to our 5), 187g (to our 34g), up IW & Myst

IBT: Osman demands 20g, we pay. Medina warrior > settler, MM for growth & settler in 5 to fix pump

1425 – 4
Ann & crew NW, Hal W2S from Medina, Med settler NW, Spike rests, Earl & settler S, Nate & settler SW, Tiger SWS, Dave rests

IBT:

1400 – 5
push research to 70%, -1gpt, HBR in 2 instead of 3.
Dave forts, Nate & Settler SW, Earl & settler S, Hal S to Mecca, Ann road, Zook & crew SE irrigate, Tiger 2S into Otto territory, Settler founds Kufah 5NW of Mecca, Spike rests.
Kufah > temple in 15
Ottos now up IW, Myst & Alpha

IBT: Osman asks us to leave, we agree. Najran warrior > tample in 10 (could also have done rax, but no rush).

1375 – 6
Jack S from Najran, Earl & settler to Najran, Spike rests, Fay NW, Ann SE irrigate, Hal rests, Nate & settler W, Tiger 2S to get free launch thru rest of Otto terr.

IBT: HBR > Alpha, BW comes N toward neck in desert, Damascus warrior > worker in 4 (grow in 2) – needs rax

1350 – 7
Ian (Damascus) rests, Spike rests, Fay roads, Ann & crew to Medina, Earl & settler SW, Jack SW, Nate & settler W, Tiger E,S, Zook to Mecca, Hal W (oops) :blush:
Buy Alpha for HBR, 6g + 1gpt.
Change research to math in 40, research @10% +10gpt

IBT: Mecca riots

1325 – 8
Return Hal to Mecca to stop riot :blush::blush:
Ian rests, Spike rests, Ann & crew 2W, Earl & settler SW, Jack SW, Nate & settler W, Tiger SES, Zook SW

IBT: BW retreats SE, Mecca settler > settler, Medina settler > settler

1300 – 9
Ann & crew road, Spike rests, Ian rests, Zook S, Hal & settler SW from Mecca, Earl & settler S, Jack S, Nate & settler SW, Tiger SSW, Med settler 2W
Change Baghdad to Spear in 1 for use in Mecca, then return build to rax.

IBT: Tiger dies to BH without getting to pop more fog, forest cleared at Damascus, Damascus worker > warrior (darn – I didn’t realize the worker was clearing, please don’t leave clearing workers without a note in the post), Baghdad spear (Shaft) > rax

1275 – 10
Shaft on road to Mecca, Med settler NW, Fay W,N, Spike rests, Ian rests, worker to horse, worker to Damascus, Hal & settler S, Zook roads, Earl & settler SW, Jack SE, Nate & Settler SW,

Intentions:
- Earl & settler in position to found city
- Nate & settler intended to found a city 2SW after crossing river. This city will have 5BG, 1FP, 6 forests, ivory after expansion Should be very strong if we can keep corruption down (FP, court + police, etc.)
- May want to go WNW instead, and try for spices, but flip danger. Will want to plant more cities in area.
- Intend for Damascus workers to road on horse
- Jack intended to move S to spot BV & maybe hunt training.
- Med settler headed 2NW to settle on point & Fay to connect with road
- Need to road to Najran & Neckville to allow best horse & settler movement
- Need to hook up gold & game at Najran, and game shard by Mecca & Baghdad.

And the map:

Looking again, 2W of wheat W of Neck might be a good city site.

Got it.

I think I'll move our western settler pair & try to get the spice and FP area near the Ottos, then bring second settler pair down towards the Ivory & BGs.

I'll probably play later today & post.

:confused: I thought I did.


Damascus's worker finished road and after thought (maybe too much) I conclude that if wheat is irrigated first, would grow too fast and have happiness problems, so I move him to forest to start a chop and will likely need to either help get a settler out after the temple or it can be used to help get a rax the wheat still needs to be irrigated

Preturn 1275BC
1) Changed Najran from Temple to Rax - enough tiles accessible w/o temple
2) Changed Kufah from Temple to Spear - we will only gain 2 workable tiles on expansion
3) Changed Mecca (Size 2 grow in 1) from settler to Spear - need to get to Size 4 for a constant 4 turn settler factory
4) Changed Medina (Size 3 grow in 3) from settler to spear for the same reason
5) Sorry for making all these changes but getting the 2 settler factories on track is important

IBT - Barb N

Turn 1 - 1250BC
Jack S (spies Bhorse, Bwarrior & Bcamp) / Earl N to mt / settler waits / wake spear (Spar) SW with settler (worried about that Bhorse) / settler NE (he was on RCP6) / Fay mines / Spike NE / Ian E S / Worker1 S to horses / Worker2 roads on horses / Nate & Settler W (damn - right next to a Bcamp) / Hal & settler S / Shaft SW SW / Ann & Crew E E SE to Game

IBT - Bwarrior attacks Spar he dies Spar -1hp / eastern Bwarrior N to mt, Bhorse stays put / no attack on Nate & settler

Turn 2 - 1225BC
Spar & settler W / Earl forts on mt choke / Hal & settler S / Shaft S / Ann & Crew irr game / Northern settler SE (should have moved him E not NE last turn) / Sike E SE S / Worker1 joins in building the horse road / Ian S /
Nate & settler W (still next to Bcamp) / Jack NW staying on mt

IBT - Bhorse moves W

Turn 3 - 1200BC
Mecca Spear (Nails) => warrior (looks like Meccas needs to be a size 5-7factory
Medina Spear (Rod) => settler
Rod SE S SW / Northern Settler on RCP5 finally founds Basra set to warrior / Spike SE S S / Nails SW / Shaft S / Hal & Settler S / Ian S / Spar & settler W / Jack off his mt S next to Bcamp / Nate & settler W

Otto's will trade MYST for 62g & 10gpt - I do not trade

IBT - Eastern Bwarrior moves W (1 tile NE of Jack)

Turn 4 - 1175BC
Damascus warrior => worker
Ann & Crew finish irrigating Medina is now +5f moving Ann & Crew E to BG to mine then road / Ian SE / Hal & settler SW / Shaft SW / Spike S / Nails S / Rod S SW SW / Spar & settler SW / Jack attacks the Bcamp & losses / Nate & settler NW ready to found the Spice city next turn

Lux went to 10% to keep Mecca from roit

Turn 5 - 1150BC
Horse road is completed /
Mecca warrior => settler (Mecca still only at +4f we need to chop & irrigate the game tile)
Kufah Spear (Gaff) => worker
Nate forts settler founds Khurasan set to worker
Gaff forts / Ann & Crew mine / Rod S / Nails S / Spike S / Shaft S / Ian S / Hal & settler SW / Worker1 & 2 N E irrigate wheat / Mecca warrior forts / Spar & settler SW

Lux to 20% for Medina even with 2MPs (Mecca is ok has 2MPs)
mm Medina to keep +5food

IBT - Bhorse N ( SW S of mt choke) Bwarrior N (due S of mt choke)
Ottos learned WRIT - now up 3 techs

Turn 6 - 1125BC
Spar & settler W / Ian, Hal & settler SW (together - next to Bhorse & Bwarrior) / Shaft SW / Spike S / Nails S / Rod S / Zook N NE

IBT - Bhorse NW / Bwarrior attacks Hal and dies, Hal -1hp

Turn 7 - 1100BC
Najran Rax => Archer (not connected to horse road yet)
change Damascus from worker to Rax
mm'd Medina & Mecca for food (Mecca still need to fix that game tile)

Hal & Ian forts settler founds Anjar set to spear (not sure what to build here - this city is for strategic value not production)

Spar & settler SW / Worker1 &2 NE E NE moving to that game tile / Zook E NE / fay roads / Rod SW / Nails S / Spike SW / Shaft SW / warrior from Meccas E N NE

Lux to 40% for Medina ?? Why so unhappy at size 6 with Temple & 2MPs

IBT - Bhorse rides off W SW

Turn 8 - 1075BC
Medina settler => wealth (factory off by one turn)
Basra warrior => worker
mm'd Medina to keep +5f
Divert warrior to Baghdad for MP - Lux down to 20%
Damascus warrior E NE E towards Mecca / settler W S W / Ann & Crew road
Zook starts chop on game / Worker1 & 2 E NE to game / Rod forts in Najran
Nails SW / Spike SW / Shaft SW / Spar & settler SW to city spot

IBT - na

Turn 9 - 1050BC
Mecca settler => Horse
Kufah worker => Rax
changed Medina off wealth to settler - Medina is now size 5 empty granary box and +5f +7S (4 turn factory is set)

Spar forts settler founds Fustat set to worker
Settler S SE S / Worker1 & 2 join chop will complete at the end of 1000BC (with chop & growth Mecca should make horse in 3 turns also) / Settler SW / Nails SW / Spike SW / Shaft W / Worker3 E NE mine

IBT - na

Turn 10 - 1025BC
both settlers S S
Left all other moves for next player

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Zarths1025BC.jpg


Notes to next player
1) Keep an eye on Mecca's growth we may want to switch horse to rax before the chop comes in we still have to irrigate the game to get Mecca to +5f so adjust accordingly. I'd like to complete the irrigation on growth turn to get the factory in sync. May even want to switch to a warrior before chop.

2) Chop will add to city at end of 1000BC.

3) Medina is set need to mm on growth turns to keep at +5f

1025BC SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/PTW_1025_BC.SAV)

got it, i'll play tomorrow

0. 1025BC

1. 1000BC
shaft attacks barbarian horsemen and becomes a veteran with 3 hp now
luxuries up to prevent disorder in medina
MM medina, growth in 2, settler in 2
Baghdad finishes barracks, start horsemen
Najran archer => archer
switch barracks to granary in damascus

2. 975BC

3. 950BC
medina finishes settler, start settler
mecca finishes horsemen, start settler
basra worker => granary

4. 925
shaft destroys barb camp near kurasan and fustat

5. 900
khurasan worker => worker

6. 875
worker, settler, spear, warrior movements

we are contacted by zululand, babylon, persia they have iron working, writing, mysticism and mathematics
iroqouis and persia don't have mathematics yet, so i buy mathematics for 185 gold from otto
trades:
iroquois: writing for mathematics + 7 gold
persia: iron working + 5 gold for mathematics
switch science to construction

7. 850
istanbul (otto) finishes pyramids!
londen (england) finishes oracle!


8. 825
bursa (otto) finishes collossus

9 800
fustat worker => worker
archer destroys barb camp
aden founded

10 775
damascus granary => worker
baghdad horsemen => horsemen



I need some help with these 4-turn settler factories, as it took 5 turns for me to get settlers from mecca and medina. Can someone explain how these work exactly?


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/PTW_775_BC.SAV

I need some help with these 4-turn settler factories, as it took 5 turns for me to get settlers from mecca and medina. Can someone explain how these work exactly?

Need to make sure the governor is set to emphasize production and not food. This will place the new citizen on a forest tile to pick up the extra shields needed.

Medina has the food & shields to be 4 turn factory, but unfortunately it is not on fresh water. It must be able to grow to size 7. So on turn 4 we are not getting the growth even though the granary box is full. This is dropping our population to Size 4 instead of 5 after the settler is built. Medina needs an aquaduct since its not on fresh water. 5 Turn factory is probably the best for Medina, until aquaduct. (For some reason I thought it was on fresh water.) You do want to keep Medina at +5 food for the first 2 turns of the settler cycle, than is can be adjusted to coincide with the settler.

Mecca's problem was the game tile was not improved when you started your round. With the game irrigated Mecca is actually at +6 food, but is still producing enough shields for a 4 turn factory (6, 8, 7, 9 = 30) and being on a river it can grow to 7 on the turn the settler is produced. In Mecca's case we could have actually mined the game and maintained the +5 food surplus, either way it is now set for 4 turns.

Here's a link (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=1739190&postcount=23) to an exceptional 4 turn settler & escort factory. By generating +5 food (he used +4f than +6f in his example) & +10 shields you can build both in 4 turns. We're short a BG in Mecca or we could duplicate this in our game. May be worth chopping one of those grass forests and hope for another BG.

jbm1964 is UP.
rrau is On Deck.

zarth - nice trades

Some questions:
are we going to research lit ourselves or buy it when it is available? I assume we want it since libraries are going to be needed for faster research for a launch date before the 1900's

also, are we looking for republic or monarchy as our next government. What should our next few tech researches be?

jb1964 is on vacation till the 19th, so

rrau up
rowandlive on deck

I'd say pursue Republic. If we pre-plan it right, we'll need the production more than we need to worry about a prolonged war. Build en masse ahead, and then launch.

I have got it.

preflight - check around can buy mysticism from Iroquois for 87 gold (best deal). Go ahead and buy it. also can't research faster with more gold, so go to 1 scientist instead to build treasury.

ibt
mecca settler - settler
medina settler - settler
najran archer - worker to connect city so it can build horse

750 bc(1)

send a settler toward khurasan
send a settler toward ivory in sw
move a horse to scout way for settler

ibt zzz

730 bc(2)
continue moving
move some workers

ibt
damascus worker-barracks

750bc(3)
mm mecca for 5 fpt
settle Yamama - warrior

ibt
our people want to build the FP
Kufah barracks-horse

690bc(4)
settle muscat-worker
iroquois,babylon, and ottomans know polytheism, but would be offended by our offer of 83g
ibt
mecca settler-settler
medina settler-settler
khurasan worker-worker

670bc(5)
move some workers and settlers
change kufah from horse to temple
ibt
baghdad horse-horse

650bc(6)
kill barb standing on spot I want to settle next turn
assign new projects to idle workers
ibt
Anjar spear-temple(vetoable-i was wanting to get wheat into border)

630bc(7)
settle Mansura-worker (dispersed barb camp for 25g) fortified nails in town while archer took care of barb
MM mecca for 5 food
checked diplo screen - still can't buy polytheism. Note babylon has over 900 gold.
ibt
Najran archer-archer(can be switched to horse in 2 turns when road is complete)

610bc(8)
move workers and settlers
archer s of Mansura sees light green border across the sea consistent with persia's colors
in next few turns will settle most of our easily available lands would recommend either researching MM next or trade for it when we have construction if the AI has researched it for us. Or build military to expand that way and hopefully get a GL to rush FP
ibt
mecca settler-settler
Fustat worker-barracks (vetoable, but I wanted a barracks near the front when attacking Ottomans and there's forest to chop to speed it up)

590bc(9)
settle Bukhara-worker
move settlers and workers
ibt
medina settler-settler

570bc(10)
Aden worker starts a chop
switch Najran from archer to horse
Fustat worker starts a chop
Currency is now known by several civs - I don't know if they will trade - didn't check since any trades this turn are to be done by R&L


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/570bc_a.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/570bc_b.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/570bc_c.jpg

OK, Got it. Acknowledge that I will take care of trades this turn, as is custom. If you get a chance to reload the maps during the day, it would give me some time to think, otherwise I'll look at them when I get home.

sorry, I tried, but I think it's a server problem as I couldn't pull up the upload page without a "page cannot be displayed" msg and I checked and other uploaded pics aren't showing up either :(

(delurk)
It's happening all over. There seems to be no ryme or reason to which ones load and which ones don't.

I think that's also the problem with the pics in your prior post. Give it few hours and try again. I noticed that some pics were gone earlier that are now back. So I wouldn't re-upload them before seeing if they are already on the server.

Back in town.

Looks like we own an iron supply and that the Americans are but a memory. Let me know when I'm up. [EDIT: Sorry, wrong game. Too much time off.] :)

If Rowandlive doesn't post his turns today then DJMGator13 can go ahead and play.

I'm available. I'll wait till Monday AM before picking it up. That will give Row all of today as well.

SORRY! Per PM with DJMGator13, I'll switch with him so that he can play today. I've been sick since Thursday night, and haven't been able to stay up late at night to play (the only time that I have available).

Preturn 570BC
1) mm Medina back to +5food switch from settler (no shields in box) to workers we need to get our land improved & lux hooked up
2) We have 6 settlers and little room to place them - MapMaking is a must
3) switch Mecca from settler to worker - Mecca can be a 2 turn worker factory
4) Fire sci guy in Baghdad put citizen to work so city can grow
5) mm Najran from regular forest to roaded forest (pick up commerce)
6) adjust sliders Sci 10% Lux 20%

IBT - na

Turn 1 - 550BC
Mecca worker4 => worker
Baghdad horseman => horseman

IBT - based on change in gold Otto's learned MM & sold it around - OTTO, PER, IRQ, BAB & ZUL are all up MM & POLY - while OTTO, PER & BAB also are up CUR

Turn 2 - 530BC
Kufah Temple => worker

Cheapest I can buy MM for is from the IRQ for WM & 200gold - I accept trade
Then I sell our Wmap around the horn - OTTOs Tmap & 30 gold, PER Tmap & 29 gold, ZUL Tmap for Tmap (they have no gold), BAB for Tmap (no gold also)

We are on one big letter "C" shaped continent with all the other currently know civs

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Zarths370BC01.jpg


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Zarths370BC02.jpg


Turn 3 - 510BC
Mecca worker => worker
Medina worker => barracks
Damascus barracks=> horseman
Basra granary=> worker
Yamama warrior => worker
found Aleppo set to cat
found Fez set to cat

IBT - VIKINGS complete the Great Lighthouse

Turn 4 - 490BC
Muscat worker => cat
Baghdad grows too large convert citizen to sci guy
lower Sci slider to 0%

Turn 5 - 470BC
Mecca worker => worker
Kufah worker=> galley
Basra worker => galley
Khurasan worker => temple

Turn 6 - 450BC
Baghdad temple => galley / fire sci guy put citizen back to work
Najran horse => horse
found Shiraz set to cat

I hate to make a gpt trade but Poly is getting more expensive as we earn more money - so I trade the ZUL for POLY & Tmap for our Wmap, 167gold & 5 gpt

Sci to 10% lux to 10 % +18gpt (after the trade)

Turn 7 - 430BC
Mecca worker =>barracks (chop due at end of turn)
Mansura worker=> cat

IBT - an OTTO settler & spear enter our territory

Turn 8 - 410BC
not much – I block Otto settler pair

IBT - Otto move settler pair back towards their land

Turn 9 - 390BC
Bukhara worker=> cat
found Merw set to cat

Turn 10 - 370BC
Medina barracks => horse
Damascus galley => horse
Baghdad galley => horse
Aden warrior => spear

The 370BC Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/PTW_370_BC.SAV)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Notes to next player
1) Otto has a settler pair trying to enter our territory - I am currently blocking him
2) We need those lux hooked up, I've increased our worker numbers by 10 that should help.
3) We need science and more cities, WAR may be the only way to get either or both.

OK, got it. Will download & play tonight.

Just touching base. Still playing. Hope to finish tonight, or definitely tomorrow night.

Looks like I'm up next. No rush.

[Edit: Rats!]

Nope.. I'm up next. You're after me.

Row, have you finished?

It's been 4 days since DJM posted.

No. We had thunderstorms last night, and I couldn't play. I'll either finish it tonight, or pass it over unfinished. Sorry.

370 - 0
Change Bukhara, Shiraz & Muscat from cat to temple.
All except Iro’s are up currency.

IBT: Mecca barracks > settler in 4, grow in 1. MM to settler in 3, grow in 2.
Vikings complete GWall in Trondheim.

350 – 1
Balkh founded > cat in 20. Mosul founded > tample in 30.

IBT: Anjar temple > rax in 20. Pesians build embassy w/us. Damascus riots > taxman.

330 - 2
Galley sees Carthaginian border to our NE.

IBT: Najran horse > horse in 5. Kufah galley > cat in 5. Basra galley > temple in 5. Yamama worker > worker in 10.

310 – 3
Galley find Utica. Carthage: 5 cities, 49g, have iron hooked up, down CB, math, MM, HBR. Sell TM for WM + 12g. They have lots of mountains & tundra.
No one will give up currency for contact +WM, and they all want way too much. There is a wide open tech market with Carthage (who does have little money).
Sell contact + WM to Persia for 141g, to Babs for 76g, Ottos for 58g, contact only to Iro’s for WM + 4g. Buy Zulu WM for WM, contact + 19g. Sell new WM to Persia for 1g.

IBT: Hannibal asks us to leave, we agree. Sell HBR to Carthage for WM + 37g (treasury). Mecca settler > settler in 3, grow in 3. Baghdad horse > galley in 4.

290 – 4

IBT: Medina horse > warrior in 2. Babs begin HG.

270 – 5
Babs now have monarchy. Sell WM around for 22g + Iro & Carthago WMs.

IBT:

250 – 6

IBT: Medina warrior > horse in 5. Ottos begin HG.

230 – 7
Persia, Babs, Ottos now up CoL, currency & monarchy. Zulu same not monarchy. Iro currency only.
Build embassy in Babylon: @4, grow in 2, settler in 1, 7spt, 12/+4fpt, 14cpt, 3 spears, 3h / 1c / 0u, 6culpt, iron & horses hooked up. Babs are in monarchy, pop 110k, 17g, 1 spice, 3 ivory, 1 gems, expand in 93, temple & palace.
Build embassy in Istanbul: @7, grow in 2, HG in 16, 15spt, 21/+7fpt, 14cpt (all sci), 5 spears, 2 cats, 1 worker, 1h / 5c / 1u, 8culpt, iron & 3 horses attached. Ottos are in monarchy, pop 303,750, 284g, 1 spice, expand in 81, Pyramids, rax, temple, granary.
Could risk an instant tech steal for monarchy if we feel daring.

IBT: Mecca riots > clown. Damascus horse > harbor in 14. Baghdad riots > clown. Najran horse > horse in 5. Kufah cat > harbor in 16. Basra temple > rax in 6.

210 – 8
Galley by Ottos kills BG.

IBT: Galley kills another BG & promotes. Mecca settler > warrior in 2. Baghdad galley > cat in 3.

190 – 9 Zzzzzzzz

IBT: Aden spear > rax in 14. Persians begin HG.

170 – 10 Zzzzzzzzzz

Notes settler in Kufah intended for 1 tile island. Settler near Yamama intended for 1 tile island or lands to East of us & Persians if found.
I have done no trading this round. The new embassies may help. We may want to try a steal for monarchy if we don't want to try trade for construction in the next few turns.

No new map.

got it!!!!!!!

@Zarth - how're things going?

whoops, totally I forgot this game!

@rowandlive: where is the save?

Nope.. I'm up next. You're after me.

got it!!!!!!!

From your previous posts it appeared that you knew that you were up and that that you had the saved game. From what I can see Row has finished but not posted the save so nobody's got it.

:( while lurking the sgotm2 threads, I read where row said he was going to be gone until 7-7 :(

Any suggestions? I would like to pick up from prior to Row and post for Zarth.

From your previous posts it appeared that you knew that you were up and that that you had the saved game. From what I can see Row has finished but not posted the save so nobody's got it.

I just scanned the Uploads7 folder and did not see it posted there (was hoping maybe he just forgot to link it in his post).

Any suggestions? I would like to pick up from prior to Row and post for Zarth.

sounds good to me, otherwise I think this game will die

Since he posted his turn log you could basically shadow his turn to recreate the save file. Then let Zarth play his 10 and then you take your 10.

Since he posted his turn log you could basically shadow his turn to recreate the save file. Then let Zarth play his 10 and then you take your 10.

That's ok with me

OK, I got the 370 BC save and will follow Row's turn log.

This game will not die, I have too much time on my hands.

:)

oops! oops! oops! :blush: :blush: :blush:

great, I will play tomorrow! for real

Thanks Row. I started trying to recreate your turns but only got through the first 5.

BTW, thanks for the good documentation. I have been putting my logs in more of a paragraph form but I see the value in keeping to a chronilogical order with major points noted.

1 170BC
I fire the scientist in damascus and hire one in muskat
switch Bagdad from cat to horse

2 150
Mecca warrior => warrior
Medina horse => horse

diplo
ROP with persia they give wm +11 gold
Nobody has construction yet, i hope we're first!

3 130
Mecca warrior => warrior
Aydab founded on the one tile island, start harbor

4 110
some horse => horse
nobody has construction yet

5 90
basra barracks => horse
no construction yet

6 70
Medina horse => horse
mecca warrior => warrior

7 50
construction discovered, start trading

Persia
us
construction

them
code of laws
philo
wm
31 gold

Otto
us
construction

them
currency
24 gold
wm

Babs
us
construction
ROP
wm
417 gold (I wasnt sure this was a good idea, I wanted republic but nobody had it.)

them
ROP
monarchy


galley disbanded in damascus -> harbor in 1

8 30
warrior completed in mecca, start marketplace
damascus harbor => market
Bayt Ras founded on an open space in persian land

9 10
zzzzzzzzz

10 10
zzzz

Notes:
we need to connect some iron and upgrade those warriors


we need to go to war soon! either with horsemen or we could wait for knights, what do you guys think?

the save:http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/PTW_10_AD.SAV


EDIT
:suicide: I FORGOT TO REVOLT AND GO TO MONARCHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cry:

BTW, thanks for the good documentation. I have been putting my logs in more of a paragraph form but I see the value in keeping to a chronilogical order with major points noted.

You're quite welcome. It's a pain, but it works well in the early game. Once the units pick up a little more, then worker moves will drop, along with non-attack unit moves. Then it'll strictly be attacks, set-ups for attacks, settler locations and builds. In any case, I'm glad that it's appreciated. :D

Nice set of moves, Zarth! It would have been nice to save those 3 turns of anarchy from the next player, but mistakes happen (like mine). A limited war (to grab a few cities or cut resources) doesn't seem like a bad idea, provided we're not throwing horses against swords. And don't forget our ROP with the Babs - we don't need to trash the reputation yet. I guess it seems best to wait for knights, since IW has been around for a while. What does a trade scan show for who has iron?

jb1964 - UP

The wife has a swim team meeting tonight and the kids are at camp so I'll be playing tonight.

If we're voting on who to go to war with, would recommend either ottomans or persia due to proximity. However, if it's going to be persia, we need to start building galleys to ferry them across the sea/ocean. Would check and see who has needed resources and lux's and make the final decision based on that.

Pre-Flight…
Zarth’s turns look good. Nice trading.

Basra’s in flames but will be back to order next turn..
We have iron in the mountains next to Allepo and in the hills by Aden. Babs and Ottomans have excess iron. Lux at 10%

Persia up Fued and Lit.
Babylon up Engineering
Ottomans up Fuedalism
Zulu behind Mon, and Const. They are also broke.
Carthage behind Math, CoLaw, Poly, and Phil
Iroquois behind Phil, CoLaw, Mon

Could purchase Fued or Engineering and trade for the other?!? Babs won’t sell Engineering so we’ll look at Fued. Ottomans want Ivory, WM, 9gpt and 564g; Persia wants more. I’ll make the deal for Ivory, WM, 8gpt and 498g. Babylon still not interested in parting with Engineering. Deals to the Zulu, Carthaginians, and Iroquois are all for peanuts so I pass. Engineering in 40.

I revolt and head towards Monarchy and get 1 turn of anarchy, which makes sense since we are religious.

Turn 1 – 30AD
Suhar founded, temple.
No trades worth having.
Lux and Research are at zero and we have +7gpt. This is not good. We MM to get that up to 15gpt and switch production of major cities to markets.

Turn 2 – 50AD
Suicide galley lost (16gpt) J . Worker movement, etc. Send off three more suicide galleys to find us some trading partners. Everyone looks happy.

Turn 3 – 70AD
Two galleys lost. Everyone’s building a great wonder of some sorts. Let ‘em.
Ottoman’s got Republic. No real trades other than 4gpt and 49g to Persia for our Ivory.

Iroquois are still dirt poor.
Babylon already has Ivory.
Ottoman’s already have Ivory.
Zulu have Ivory and are poor.
Can’t trade w/ the Carthaginians.

I’ll look at the trade next turn and see the trend.

Turn 4 – 90 AD
The galley lives! But is still left in an ocean square.
Iron hooked up.
Trades got worse. Babylon now has Republic but I can’t see where she spent any money. The Ottoman’s bank account has not increased. Persia’s funds have decreased.
Mecca hires a clown. We’re at +22gpt.

We have a RoP w/ the Ottomans so we decide to use it and send a few horse on a pleasure ride through the countryside.

Turn 5 – 110 AD
The galley survives yet again. We find a shore and a dark green boarder but we are again left in an ocean square. The Persians have Republic. Seems like the AI’s are giving techs to each other for free.
If you want a limited war my first thought would be to go limited on Persia to take their gems. I would wait for Chivalry and Ansar Warriors before attacking the Ottomans. We’re at 18gpt.

Turn 6 – 130 AD The galley luck has run out but we get contact from the English, Celts and Vikings before going down. Mecca got a market and we start on a horse. I move some warriors around to increase MP’s to three in larger cities. We’re at 23 gpt.

All of our new friends are up Lit and Republic. It would be nice to get our hands on Engineering but no one’s willing to part with it right now.

Turn 7 – 150 AD
One of our horses settles on the Ottoman’s iron. Looks like Spain traded to get communication with us but Isabella has decided she’s a bit pissed at us. The French are unknown to us for the time being. No trades other than communications and cheap tech sales to the poor. The communications we’ll keep to ourselves for now and play tech broker if possible. We can get literature for ivory but we’re concentrating on markets and barracks at the moment with research at zero. If we’re going to get into the research business we’ll need to get Lit and build some libraries.

Turn 8 – 170 AD
Mecca’s got 15spt so we can have 2 turn horses or pikes. Hammie’s still got a lock on Engineering. We can get Literature out of Shaka for Construction but since we don’t need it quite yet we resist. Hmmm, we’re backwards.

I’m thinking we need to get the Ottomans and Babylonians at each other’s throat. Take the side of the Ottomans and then work them over once the Babs are beat up.

Urgh! I just realized I have been researching Engineering all this time just because the Babylonians had it. We need Monotheism for Chivalry! My apologies.

Turn 9 – 190 AD
No deals to be had. Vikings have Monotheism. We’ll have to ply it from them somehow.
Turn 10 – 210 AD
Not much.
We have 30 more turns to get Engineering. We can either abandon that and go for Monotheism or stay the coarse. We have 248g and are earning 24gpt. I would continue to research engineering and work towards purchasing it early from the Babylonians. Hopefully we can then turn and trade it for Monotheism and then get to work on Chivalry.

I would advise against upgrading warriors to MI as I don’t see a war in our near future and we need the cash to try and work the tech deal.

The Save, PTW 210 AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/PTW_210_AD.SAV)

Pics...

Southern region, irrigating towards dessert and planes...
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/ptw210ad_1.jpg

Home base...
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/ptw210ad_2.jpg

Our future Gems
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/ptw210ad_3.jpg

Squatting on Ottoman Iron
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/ptw210ad_4.jpg

Random thoughts and observations...

There is open territory within the Ottoman Empire that we could settle. Benefits are a higher unit allowance (+2) and gems!

Moving the research slider has zero effect on research times. Despite increasing our income it looks like we'll be needing libraries if we're going to fund any of our own research.

Looks like the Zulu and Persians might have been involved in an early war. There's a razed city between them and they're both behind in research.

Any thoughts on building the FP? I would like to pick a city and get it started. Our expansion phase is over, for the most part, and we have to work with the territory we have. Do we go for a faster build close to the core cities or go for the long range build in our territories beyond the choke.

Is this a standard size map?

I vote for putting the FP beyond the choke - perhaps Fez.

As far as building in that Ottoman gap, if you look at the city sizes around it, he's going to have to build culture in them just to prevent rioting. Would we even have the city long enough before it flips to bother building it?

The Ottomans are in awe of our culture, which means that they are totally uncultured swine. And a flip isn't necessarily a foregone conclusion. It's just likely. :)

It would be an interesting experiment and we’d get gems for a turn or two. The big cost would be the 30 sheilds for a settler. It seems like it’s worth a shot.

I vote for putting the FP in Fez. We can chop the trees to get a city improvement that would lower corruption and open up land to be worked. Plus, I don't see another city we could get to population 6+ with as good of terrain as Fez. I say pick an improvement, chop the trees and build the FP ASAP.

Hi, I think I'm up. Where's the save?

Some questions:

Is it worth the $$ to rush a courthouse in Fez, or save it for upgrades/tech purchases and just chop a courthouse?

Who are we going to go to war with? If Otto, won't want to get an isolated town in the middle of his territory. If persia, will start galleys and some settlers. I think we'll have to raze the town with the gems, as close as it is to persia's capital, to prevent flips.

I'm off tomorrow :) Will wait for comments and play sometime in the afternoon.

also, what about Fushtan or Kharasat as FP locations (both on rivers with some flood plains)

I haven't had time to look at the last turn set yet. I'm going to be gone this weekend, I'll be back Monday. So if my turn comes up prior to that & Zarth is eager to play, then just swap me with Zarth.

The FP in Fushtan or Kharasat would put more cultural pressure on the Egyptians.

@jb1964 Where's the save?

@jb1964 Where's the save?

The save was at the end of his report, here is the link
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/PTW_210_AD.SAV

I vote for the FP in Fustat, there are some nice green squares around it. Around Fez it's mostly plains and deserts.

sorry, but the link is not showing up on my computer (even on Zarth's post), can someone PM it to me or something or tell me what I need to do to see the link?


edit:
I tried looking in the uploads 7 folder and there are a couple posts with out names at about the time he posted that aren't downloadable. I don't see one with zarth in the title

I dont know why you cant see the links, so I cant help you with that. I have uploaded the save in this post, can you download it now?

got it, thanks for attaching it

I'm about halfway through my turns and want to ask some advice on a trade. I personally hate giving gpt for techs, as a lot of times it slows down my research, but I know we want to buy engineering ASAP to start on chivalry, so will do what you guys want.

England and Spain have identical deals on the table for Engineering
Both want WM, 134g (all) and 16gpt

we're currently making 34 gpt

Babs are much more expensive

Could possibly buy it then sell but otto's are the only ones with cash - about 75. Might also be able to trade it with persia for gems - but then would not be able to dow on them for 20 turns.

Unfortunately, the ottoman cities by the gems have expanded their boundaries and we would need time for our borders to expand to get the gems. :(

Well, I'm going to go do some yardwork and will check back later and see what the verdict is.

preturn(210ad) :goodjob:

ibt Khursuran's borders expanded

turn 1(230ad)

Workman crew +3 NW
thanks for the nice set up of workers :thumbsup: , we got irrigation to Aleppo this turn

ibt
zulu offers TM for TM - no thanks
damascus galley > settler (either for gems in Ottoman territory or new city when warring with ????)
Kufah galley > galley
Basra Market > galley
Aden riots (forgot to check F1)

turn 2(250ad)

Rush courthouse in Fustat (down to 2g in treasury). Will start FP here next turn. Chose this because it was getting 3spt before the courthouse

More roading and irrigating

Trade Zulu Monarchy for Literature, WM, & 20g as will need next turn and will switch Basra's galley to library

remembered to check F1

ibt
Persia wants ROP - nope as they are one of our possible targets in the near future
Baghdad Marketplace > library
Najran Marketplace > library
Fustat courthouse > FP in 40
Mosul Temple > worker as totally corrupt and some unimproved tiles are being worked

turn 3(260ad)

Switch Basra from galley to library
Started a chop in Fez with 2 workers so change to rax so no wasted shields
Started a chop in Najran with 2 workers to hurry library - will lose settler factory, but not using anymore anyway
MM Baghdad for library in 9 instead of 12 (traded more shields for less commerce)
Fired scientist in Fez and hired one Mosul

Treasury 47g + earning 28gpt

ibt
Medina Market > library

turn 4(270ad)

workers irrigating and roading
MM Fustat to keep FP in 39 (is there a governor on as when I hired the Scientist in Mosul, the next turn Fustat had switched a cit from a forest to an unimproved grassland without the city growing)

ibt
Damascus Settler > library

turn 5 (280ad)

loaded settler on galley to send to Otto's empire to get gems, but noticed they had cultural expansion. :( Will send settler in galley south instead to hopefully settle a razed spot when/if we go to war with Persia (I hate having idle settlers around)

Babs will trade engineering but would have to mortgage our next 20 turns - will wait and see if the price comes down

More roading and irrigating

ibt
Kufah galley > library

turn 6 (290)
More roading and irrigating
Possible trade - I don't know if it's good or not will stop and ask advice

well 24 hrs passed without any comments - will go ahead and do the trade

trade England 133g, wm, 16gpt for engineering
trade ottomans engineering for republic, wm, 72g
persia would be insulted for trading engineering for gems - must be close.

checked current number of units (91) and even though we're religous and have 1 turn anarchy, I don't think we can support the units right now.

Start 40 turn research on Monotheism (known by England, Spain, Scandanavia, and celts)


ibt
Bayt Ras flipped to persia :mad:

turn 7 (300ad)
roading and irrigating
MM khurasan and Bahlk to speed rax in Khurasan without losing growth, shields in balkh

ibt

renewed rop with Ottomans - notice they have learned Monotheism in the interturn - won't trade
renewed rop with Babylonians - they don't know Monotheism yet, if we can get it can trade with them - they have about 120g
Mecca colloseum > library and fired clown
Anjar Marketplace > barracks (?) couldn't decide what to build, but decided a rax at the choke would be good
Ottomans completed Sun Tzu's in Istanbul
Celts and Vikings cascaded to Great Library


turn 8 (310ad)
roading and irrigating

Ottomans are amassing troops on their side of the border - our military is weak compared to theirs :(

Move Hal (warrior) from Anjar to Merw to prevent tempting target of empty city

Celts would sell Mono, but only if we traded communications. Nope. (anyway Babs spent their money on something they now have 6g)

ibt

Mansura galley > temple (will need now that plains near there are irrigated)
Fez rax > MI

turn 9 (320ad)
roading and irrigating and mining
Celts still want communications for Mono

ibt
Basra library > MI
Vikings completed Great Library in Trondheim

turn 10 (330ad)
roading and irrigating


Notes:

celts will accept a trade without communications now, but it will bankrupt us (and we have libraries due soon and they will need maintenance). Babs still don't know it and have 68g in their treasury. Persia doesn't know it and has gems we may be able to trade for it if we decide to do the trade.

Fustat will need another garrison at the end of next 10 turns

There's a settler in a galley, either hold for war to settle a city where one was razed or possibly aggressively settle jungle island tile North or Tyre (Persian)

No pending forest chops

Ottomans may be getting restless for more territory. We currently have ROP with them (good for about 16 or 17 more turns).

I think this is the order....

RowAndLive - Up
DJMGator13 - On deck
Zarth - In the hole
jb1964 - Asleep on the bench
rrau - Just played

RowAndLive is also up in GGF4, 11/12/04. DJMGator13, swap w/ Row if you would like unless Row says otherwise.

Acknowledged - got it. Will start Tuesday night.

rrau - did you get the governor turned off? I get the feeling that Osman wil be making a demand soon - is it likely to be contact, or do we have something else that he'd want? It may be best to make the trade and thus avoid the demand. Thoughts?

It may be best to make the trade and thus avoid the demand. Thoughts?

Interesting. Pro-active trading to avoid demand or unwanted war.

What are the possible trades with Ozzy?

Never found a highlighted city where a governor was turned on. It happened again later in the game in another town - if anyone knows if they turned on a gov to emphasize food and what town it was in, please turn it off --- on the other hand, whenever I would change the cits in those 2 towns, I never got a popup asking if I wanted to turn the governor off so it might just be a quirk of the game :confused:

Only trades with Osman now are ivory, contacts or gold. He has monotheism but won't trade for ivory plus gold.

If we're not ready for war, might either trade ivory cheap or gift it for goodwill

Hey guys I'm back in town. Can play after Row without any problems.

sorry, but the link is not showing up on my computer (even on Zarth's post), can someone PM it to me or something or tell me what I need to do to see the link?


edit:
I tried looking in the uploads 7 folder and there are a couple posts with out names at about the time he posted that aren't downloadable. I don't see one with zarth in the title

I think this is experienced with some firewalls sometimes. Never happened to me, but I have heard of this before...

Row is suggesting we trade contact for Monotheism to avoid having it demanded of us at a time when we can't say no. This jumps us forward on the path towards knights but breaks our ownership of the communications.

There's no more room left, right? If there is, can I join? Or at least on a list for if someone drops out?

ok with me to trade communications, but I would wring everything out of it that we can.

I get the feeling that Osman wil be making a demand soon - is it likely to be contact, or do we have something else that he'd want? It may be best to make the trade and thus avoid the demand. Thoughts?

I do not think it affects the demand, only what he demands. Back when I use to reload while learning to play I would sometimes replay the turn with the demand while trading the demanded item first. The AI still made the demand on schedule but asked for something different.

On the trading of contacts if we are close to losing the contact anyhow lets trade it.

I don't think that we're close to losing exclusivity, and after looking at the military situation on the border, it may not be soo bad after all. We have a huge stack of horse in the central town to counter 2 pikes and 2 LBs. The problem that we do have is that the same central city has no culture, and is bordered by 2 rather large Otto cities. This city is our key, as if it flips, then the ones on either side will eventually flip also. If we keep it, then we should be OK. That will now go to building culture for a while. In the mean time, I've moved many of the units out, just to prevent losing most of our army in a flip. I'm also searching for more luxes to trade, so as to be able to decrease the MP load on the core cities (3 each is high).

I should be able to finish tonight. In the mean time, I'll keep my eyes on the trading price versus potential for demand war. Thanks for the input!!!

Row, see if you can get a map from our friends to the East so we can see if there's an easier route. If there's a wide gap all around then we own the contact for some time to come.

The closest points are up by carthage, and down SE from the zulu. Both are 6 ocean tiles wide, so not great. In any case, I did well with trades, and bagged mucho cash, techs, and enough gpt to make me feel like I'm wearing a target.

It took a long time, so I'll need another night.

Most kewl!

Looking forward to the play by play.

330AD – 0
Reset prefs.
Move excess horse units out of Muscat. Change rax build to library in 28. We need the culture here to prevent a flip!!!
Trades for WM & French contact: Spain WM, 10g, 3gpt; Celts same but 9g; English & Vikings won’t do it, but might then trade total WM for much $ or Mono.
Trade with Spain.
France: 14 cities, 47g, 9 extra furs, down Poly, currency, Republic.
Sell WM to: Celts for WM + 14g, England for 9g, Vikings for TM + 6g, Ottos for WM + 21g, Babylon for WM + 68g + 7gpt, Carthage for WM + 24g, Persia for WM + gems + 15g (includes ivory from us). Zulu & Iro have no money, no luxes, no techs, so no trade.
France has 47g, England 53g + Mono, Celts have Mono, Spain has 3gpt + 13g + Mono, Vikings have 69g + Mono, rest of world has no money. Hold off on trading contacts, although Carthage is close to England & Vikings, and Zulu and Persia are close to France. Looks like 6 ocean tiles min at each place.
(Net: +147g + 4gpt + gems – ivory +/- WMs. Or, +201g counting France, below.)

IBT: Babs begin Leo’s, Ottos start pulling ships & troops back to home cities. We must have given them elsewhere to set their sights on for expansion.

340 – 1
Spain down to 7g, France has 54g, Sell WM to France for WM + 54g, England has 90g, Celts have 11g, Vikings have 115g. Ottos have 42g + Invention. Babs have invention, Persia has 6g, Carthage, Iro & Zulu are out of it (0 or 1g).

Invent + WM from Babs for contacts with Sp, Celts, Eng, Fr.
Sell Invent + Zulu contact to Spain for Mono + 7g + WM.
Sell Invent + Iroquois contact to Vikings for Chiv + 115g.
Sell remaining 5 contacts to Vikings for 26gpt + TM.
Sell 5 contacts to England for WM + 90g + 14gpt.
Liz offers 6gpt (all that’s left) for Invention – No.
Trade French, Spanish & Celtic contacts + WM to Osman for 42g + 10gpt + WM.
Osman offers 2gpt for Chiv – No.
Sell Zulu contact to Celts for 11g + WM.
Sell WM to Persia for WM + 6g.
Sell WM to Zulu for WM + 1g.
Give WM to Iroquois – goes from cautious to polite.
Sell TM to Carthage for 1g.
Give WM to Carthage – goes from cautious to polite.
Give French contact to Zulu – goes from cautious to polite.
Give Iroquois contact to Spain – goes from annoyed to polite.
Give Iroquois & Carthaginian contacts to Celts – goes from annoyed to polite.
Give Iroquois contact to France – goes from annoyed to polite.
Give WM to England – goes from annoyed to cautious.
We are now at 620g + 74gpt.

Status:
Zulu Polite, 0g, 0gpt, down Rep, Mono, Feud, Eng
Babylon Polite, 0g, 0gpt, down Chiv
Iroquois Polite, 0g, 0gpt, down Republic, Mono, Feud, Eng
Persians Polite, 0g, 0gpt, down Mono, Invention, no contact w/ French, Celts, or Spanish
Ottomans Polite, 0g, 2gpt, down Chiv
Carthage Polite, 0g, 0gpt, down Math, Poly, Rep, etc., no contact w/ French, or Spanish
France Polite, 0g, 0gpt, down Poly, currency, Rep, etc, Persian & Carthaginian contacts
Spain Polite, 0g, 0gpt, down Chiv, Persian & Carthaginian contacts
Celts Polite, 0g, 0gpt, down Chiv, Invent, Persian contact
English Cautious, 0g, (6gpt, down Invent)
Vikings Annoyed, 0g, 0gpt
We are strong versus Iroquois & Persians, weak versus Ottomans & Babylonians.
Sell Invent to England just to grab the 6gpt + WM, and further cut her ability to trade & build, keeping the $ out of someone else’s coffers.
Less tempted with Ottomans, since they’re already strong, but someone else may trade it for the pittance, just because everyones desperate for money.
We are now at 620g + 80gpt.
Would like to get Education in play to shut down the Viking GLib, but not for us to do.

Can get Theology in 17 turns or Gunpowder in 21 turns at 100%.
Set research for gunpowder in 40 @ 10% to keep up gpt for upgrades & rushes.


Upgrade 7 horse to Ansars for 420g. Save balance for culture rushes next turn.
Switch Khursan from rax in 11 to library in 31.
Rush pike in Shiraz for 8g.
Transfer archer from Yamama to Suhar.
Return settler galley to Yamama.
We are now at 192g + 68gpt.

Only Carthage, Zulu and Iroquois do not have deals for 15+ turns to prevent our attacking. We are strong versus all 3. Might I suggest Carthage?!?

IBT: Medina lib > ansar in 7. Baghdad library > galley in 4. Shiraz pike > court in 80. Spanish & Vikings begin Leo’s.

350 – 2
Notice that Ottos have a 3rd iron hooked up down near the Bab border. Must either add another interdicter or give up sitting on iron.
Sell Chivalry to Ottomans for WM + 20g + 2gpt + 2 workers.
Babylon now has 12g. Persians have 5g. Only the Ottos can use our ivory.
Rush library in Muscat for 208g.
Rush Temple in Suhar for 36g.
Upgrade spear in Fustat to pike for 20g.

IBT: Mecca library > Leo’s in 38. Muscat library > rax in 14. Mosul worker > court in 80. Suhar temple > lib in 80.

360 – 3
No good trade’s to make. Wonder if Vikings will attack Carthage or us now that they have ‘zerks.
Upgrade horse in Mecca to ansar for 60g.

IBT: Najran lib > temple in 5. Kufah lib > duct in 10. Basra MI > ansar in 5.

370 – 4
Upgrade horse in fustat to ansar.
Change Medina from ansar in 5 to duct in 10.

IBT: Carthaginian galley shows up off of Medina. Persian stack (spear, war, 2 workers) in jungle near Suhar. 2 Ottoman galleys playing in Gulf of Fez.
Damascus lib > duct in 12. Anjar rax > pike in 5. Bukhara pike > court in 40.

380 – 5
Upgrade horse in Mecca to ansar for 60g.

IBT: Baghdad galley > pike in 4. Merw rax > lib in 40. Persians, Ottomans & Celts begin Leo’s.

390 – 6
movin & building. One more turn before revolt to republic.

IBT: Aden market > temple in 10. Suhar expands to pressure Sidon. Yowza!

400 – 7
Build embassy in Trondheim for 90g.
Trondheim @12 = 6h/5u/1clown, republic, pop 795000, 7g, 1 iron & 2 horse in box, 1 wine, 1 fur, 1 dyes, 2 incense, 2 silk
21 cpt, expand in 14. palace, rax, temple, lib, HG, GLib, GWall
7 pikemen
18spt/1 corrupt, cathedral in 5, 27fpt / 3 extra / grow in 7. 14gpt, 31bpt / 1 corr

IBT:

410 – 8
There’s an Ottoman sword forted on the last iron.
Upgrade warrior in Medina to MI for 60g.
Upgrade horse in Fustat to ansar for 60g.
Sell WM to France for 2g.
Give WM to Carthage, goes to polite.
Revolt to Republic.

IBT: Ottos abandon iron site.
Khursan riots. Balkh riots. Aydab riots.

420 – 9
Horse interdicts last Otto iron.
Upgrade horse in Fustat to ansar for 60g.

IBT: Otto troops occupy mountain near xxxx.
Najran temple > MI in 5. Basra ansar > cathedral in 7. Aleppo pike > court in 40.
Aydab stays in unrest.

430 – 10
Upgrade horse in Fustat to ansar.
Create a scientist in Aydab to quell unrest. Drop slider to 0.
Gunpowder due in 32.
Treasurey 56g + 131gpt

Notes:
Been building many roads & improvements.
Have 3 galleys (+1 settler) near Baghdad for invasion fleet to Carthage.
Have 2 galleys in strait near Persia (need 4 to block both channels).
We’re in the race for Leo’s, but don’t know how well we’re doing.
Gunpowder due in 32 at 10%.
We’re now 3rd in score behind Babs & Ottos. 1st in power, 3rd in culture.
Average army to Babs & Ottos, strong to rest of neighbors.
Carthage should be cake if you want to go now.
Army:
22 warriors, 2 MI
6 spear, 4 pike
4 archers
8 horse, 14 ansar
5 galleys
2 catapults
30 workers, 1 settler (in galley)

Next player should check again for trades in detail. I saw no new techs,
but there may be map & contact opportunities.

Here's the minimap:

great set of turns Row!

so:
RowAndLive => just played
DJMGator13 => up now
Zarth => on deck
jb1964
rrau

Zarth, if you want to swap go ahead and play. My brother & 3 year old niece are here and I think we may go see Mickey tomorrow. I can grab it on Monday AM if not.

alright, got it!


About the war thing. the civs are:

Babs (7 turns of ROP left)
Otto's (7 turns of ROP left)
iroquois (no pt deal)
zulu (no pt deal)
carthage (no pt deal)
persia (10 turns of gems-ivory deal left)

Who do we attack first? Carthage will be easy to to defeat. So I say we go after them first.

carthage sounds good to me, too. :)

Sweet trading. My head hurt just reading it all. :)

Kill whomever you would like. Makes sure we're defended against our neighbros to the north.

I concurr with taking out Carthage. They're small, weak, close to home, and if we don't take them, then I'm sure that Scandanavia will. :hammer:

sorry guys, but I dont have time to play today. So DJMGator13 you may grab it today if you can, or I'll get it tomorrow.

sorry guys, but I dont have time to play today. So DJMGator13 you may grab it today if you can, or I'll get it tomorrow.


No problem, my visitors headed back up to CT this morning so I can play and post tonight.

We're going for conquest, correct?

We're going for conquest, correct?


I thought it was spaceship. BUT - I have no problems eliminating all but 1 nonproductive city of a scientific civ that we can use to help us get a tech with each new era change

Quick Summary: Started war with CART - captured 2 cities killed 27 units but lost 10 units

Preturn 430AD
Wake 3 AW from Muscat send toward galley for war with CART
Baghdad change pikeman to galley (due next turn)
change clown in Balkh to revenuer

IBT -

Turn1 - 440AD
Baghdad galley => AW
Anjar pikeman => AW
move troops towards CART

IBT - Ottos want Tmap vrs Tmap

Turn2 - 450AD
Move troops towards CART
Issue DoW before moving troops/galley into CART territory
Trade: Ivory to OTTO for WM, 60gold & 7gpt

IBT

Turn3 - 460AD
Unload troops in CART (6AW &2 MI)

IBT - CART attacks our stack and loses 2 warriors, 3 NM, 1 sword, & 2 galleys - we lose 1 empty galley
Our Golden Age is triggered

Turn4 - 470AD
Medina aqueduct => AW
Kufah aqueduct => AW
changed Basra from cathedral to aqueduct

Battle for Utica
vAW vrs rNM - we win but are redlined
vAW vrs rNM - we win (-1hp) and capture Utica set to warrior
move injured troops into Utica to heal

adjust sci to 60% gunpowder in 7 +38gpt

IBT - CARTS move troops but no counter attack

Turn5 - 480AD
Damascus aqueduct => AW
Aden temple => baracks
Yamama temple => barracks
Muscat barracks => aqueduct (may want to change to AW)
add steps to our palace lawn
lux to 10% for Medina & Mecca

IBT - CARTS have about 15 units near Utica they attack and lose 2 NM & 1 warrior - we lose a MI & a galley

Turn6 - 490AD
Baghdad AW=> AW
Najran AW => AW
add some spiers to our lawn
sci to 50% (still in 5) .ux to 20%

take out 4 NM near Utica - lose none, one promos to elite (now have 2 elites)

IBT - CART ask for peace - I say no - then they attack and lose 3 warriors but take out an AW / PER exchanges World Map

Turn7 - 500AD
Basra aqueduct => AW
Khurasan riots due to WW
Mansura temple => library
take out 3 NM near Utica

IBT - Cart attacks loses 1 warrior and takes out an AW & a galley with an AW / Otto renew ROP / BAB renew ROP

Turn8 - 510AD
Medina AW => AW
Utica cat => warrior
Damascus AW => AW

CARTs are down to 3 weakened units around Utica - take out 2 of these but lose an AW

IBT -

Turn9 - 520AD
Kufah AW => AW
Anjar AW => AW
Balkh marketplace => barracks
Aydab harbor => pikeman

lose MI attacking NM

Battle for Leptis Magna
vAW vs rNW - we redline but win
eAW v 1/3 rNM - victory & capture Leptis Magna set to warrior

IBT - CART takes out an AW

Turn10 - 520AD
Baghdad AW => galley
Najran AW => AW
Basra AW => galley

not much action

Notes to next player
1) I started a galley in Baghdad & Basra ready in 2 turns - CART galleys took out 3 of our 4 galleys so no reinforcements have come across yet. I have 5 AW waiting to cross when the galeeys are ready. I'm wondering if we can play follow the leader with the lone galley in Utica. If either or both CART gallies chase him we could allow the 2 new gallies to cross safely.
2) Ottos have muskets, so I have staged remaining AW near their border.
3) I renewed the ROP with Otto & Babs
4) We will learn gunpowder next turn
5) FP is 12 turns away
6) Golden age started in the IBT to 470AD
7) I've been busy building AW we now have 22 of them

EDIT: The 530AD Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/PTW_530AD.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/ZPTW_01.jpg

got it now

Nice turn set, DJM! :thumbsup:

One of the galleys had held a combat settler. Where did he end up? Also, in my turns I had built a fortress on the single tile mountain blocking the neck. We should make it a point to keep 1-2 pikes in there, and later maybe a cannon / arty. I did that so as to keep someone else from doing it to us, and then being adjacent to a canal city, and on a mountain.

One of the galleys had held a combat settler. Where did he end up? Also, in my turns I had built a fortress on the single tile mountain blocking the neck. We should make it a point to keep 1-2 pikes in there, and later maybe a cannon / arty. I did that so as to keep someone else from doing it to us, and then being adjacent to a canal city, and on a mountain.

I unloaded the settler back on the main continent and moved him south towards either OTTO or to take across for PER. With CART having only a few cities I did not think I needed to raze a city on their small island.

I left a single warrior on the fortress currently.

I also left the 3 horsemen in OTTO terrirtory on the iron tiles. Since OTTOs have them roaded already and we have an ROP with them this is not considered resource denial is it?

I also left the 3 horsemen in OTTO terrirtory on the iron tiles. Since OTTOs have them roaded already and we have an ROP with them this is not considered resource denial is it?

I don't think so, I did this in one of the gotms and then rop raped and wrote it up and no one told me it was not allowed - but I did it before contact with another continent was achieved :mischief: so didn't have rep hit. I would leave them there in case Ottos dow on us and break rop treaty so we can pillage their iron

0. 530

1. 540
we discover gunpowder
The persians are the only ones who dont have gunpowder or arent way behind, so we trade them ivory, world map and 340 gold for theology and gems. We are still printing press and education behind most other civs.
I trade with Babylon chemistry for saltpeter, world map and 70 gpt
With otto's, we get education for chemistry and 1 gpt
We give england, they give printing press, world map. 27 gpt and 21 gold
I also sign an ROP with scandinavia
The persians give us 355 gold and their world map for printing press

Damascas AW => AW
Utica and Leptis warrior => temple
Aden barracks => AW

2. 550
Baghdad galley => AW
Basra galley => AW
Fez AW => library

3. 560
Medina AW => AW
Kufah AW => AW
switch Mosul to galley

4. 570
Damascus AW => AW
Najran AW => AW

5. 580
Basra AW => AW
Anjar AW => AW
Taif founded, disband galley and hurry temple

6. 590
Baghdad AW => AW
Bukhara library => marketplace
Carthage captured

7. 600
Damascus AW => AW
Kufah AW => AW
Merw library => market
Balkh barracks => AW
Theveste captured

8. 610
Medina AW => AW
Najran AW => AW
Basra AW => AW

9. 620
Mekka Leo's => AW
Shiraz courthouse => market
Hippo captured, Carthage destroyed

10 630
Damascus AW => AW
Baghdad AW => AW
Aden AW => AW

And the save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/PTW_630_AD.SAV

jb1964 - UP
rrau - On Deck

Got it. Will play tonight as the wife's going out w/ friends. Starting Saturday until Friday I'm swamped w/ diving and swim championships at our swim club.

Save, PTW 730 AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/PTW_730_AD.SAV)

Pre-flight…
OK, which SG is this?
We have plenty of gold and more coming in thanks to 10% luxury tax and zero research. We’re not at war and the Carthaginians seem to have departed the planet for better digs in the afterlife. We have a goodly amount of Ansar Warriors and are in the midst of our Golden Age.

Babs: RoP (7), Us - Saltpeter (11), 70gpt (11)
Ottomans: RoP (7), Us – Ivory (2) 1gpt (11), Them – 7gpt (2); Down - MT and Metal
Scandihoovia: ROP (11), Down - Metal and MT
Spain: No active deals; Down - Music Theory. (700g for MT)
England: Them - 27pgt; Down – MT
France: No active deals; Up - Mono, Feud, Eng, and Rep
Celts: No active deals; Parity on tech
Iroquois: No active deals, Up Eng, Print Press, Edu
Persia: Gems (11), up Chem
Zulu: No active deals, Up Theo and Eng
Carthage: dead

Seems like the big tech we’re down is Metallurgy. Has anyone seen Cavalry running about?

Can’t remember why our research is at zero. Are we going for a conquest victory? I need to run through the thread to refresh our objectives.

We have ivory, iron and horses we can sell. Persia and Zululand do not have iron. The Iroquois would like our ivory but don’t have the cash or goods. Ottomans and Babylonians are ahead of us in score.

Persia is a good next target but I would like to target an AI that can yield a luxury. Persia, Iroquois and Zulu have no luxuries for our people. BTW, Iroquois only iron is under Tonawanda.

Hmmm, the French are weak and have furs. But that’s not going to happen until Navigation. Heck, until Navigation comes in we’re stuck with the geeks on our continent.

Military adviser says that Ottomans and Babs are too much to eat at this time. Besides, we have RoP’s with both. I don’t like the proximity of the Zulu to the Babylonians and the Iroquois are too far of a trek for our little armada. My goal this ten turns is to research and position troops to invade Persia.

Time to set up for Turn 1. But first I’m going to the pool for an hour or two.
Ah, very refreshing. Soaking lifeguards w/ massive “can-openers” is going on my resume.

Set research to 70% to bring Metal in 8 turns at –141gpt. Happy gas is still at 10%. That would run the treasury dry around turn 9 but we have FP coming in next turn. I’ll evaluate our builds after that time. Worker actions, reposition forces towards Ottoman and Persian boarders.

IBT: Jerkies isn’t too thrilled about our ship in his waters so we move out.

Turn 1, 640 AD
Mecca, Ansar to cathedral
Medina, Ansar to cathedral
Kufa, Ansar to cathedral
Basra, Ansar to cathedral
Anjar, Ansar to courthouse
Fustat, FP to marketplace
Switch Baghdad to galley
Switch Yamama to Library
Switch Kurhasan to Library
Switch Balkh to Library
Switch Aden to galley
Switch Damascus to cathedral

Move Ansars around and worker actions. After FP we now get Metal in 5 turns @ -117gpt. Bump to 90% to get in 4 turns.

IBT: Nothing

Turn 2, 650 AD
Baghdad, galley to galley (2turns - 15spt)
Najran, Ansar to galley (2turns - 17spt)
Kuhrasan, lib to market (need to sneeze on more spt out of this on)
Worker actions, reworking some irrigated grassland tiles to up shields now that FP has made cities quite productive.

Research down to 80% with Metal in 3
Just about everyone is building Bachs
England, Scandahoovians, Babs and Otters have Astronomy
Persia still weak and Otters are average.

IBT: Rework Ivory for gold deal w/ the Otters and get no deal. Fine, let him pay for entertainment.

Turn 3, 660 AD
Aleppo, courthouse to library
Fez, library to market

Baghdad needs a harbor and a duct for growth and 2fpt from our coastal tiles. We stick w/ galley for now.

No deals. AI’s to the east have many luxuries that I covet.

IBT: Our Golden Age is over.

Turn 4, 670 AD
Mecca: cathedral to Ansar
Damascus: cathedral to courthouse
Switched Taif to harbor for growth
Khurasan riots. Great. Did an F1 check and missed this one. We hire a clown since scientists and revenuers are worthless.

Research is down to 40% to prevent from going in the red. Metal in 4 turns.
Celts now have Astro. These jerks are giving to each other for free.

IBT: Nothing

Turn 5, 680 AD
Baghdad, galley to Ansar (can only get 9spt)
Najran, galley to galley
Worker actions and stuff.
Research to 50%, Metal in 2.

IBT: Nothing

Turn 6, 690 AD
Aden, galley to library
Worker actions.
Research at 50%, Metal in 1
Ozzy of the Otters will give me Metal, 4g, & TM for Ivory. With research at 50% to bring it in next turn that amounts to 228g. Sounds good and lets us get a start on Military Tradition while trying to wring value out of Metal.
Set research to 0% and hire geeks on the Carthaginian Island.

Babylon and the Vikings have Military Tradition.
Trade England Metal for Astronomy, a few gold and a WM.
None of the other Civs have Physics, Navigation or Banking.

I would really like some input as to what tech to move forward on here. At 30% research we can get Bank (16), MT (17), Physics (19) or Navigation (16). MT certainly helps up on the attack but this is already owned my 2 Civs. The possibility of Sapahis on our northern boarders does not make me happy.

Navigation: Allows us to sail to the French and claim furs. Can be effective w/ our current forces as Joan is a long way from Invention. Could put cannons and muskets on boarder towns to discourage the Otters.
Physics: Could be first to this and trade for other techs.
Military Tradition: Gives us a good offensive punch. Would give us the edge over the Ottomans if we could get to it before they make Sapahi in great numbers. Not sure if we want to make them our next target.
Banking: Certainly increases our income if we build the banks.

Waiting for input and a little sleep...

OK, Physics it is.
Change production on a number of cities to bump science and income.
Got rid of many warriors to make cash flow positive.
IBT: Nothing
Turn 7, 700 AD
Built infrastructure, joined a few workers to cities to max out shields and gold.
IBT: Renewed RoP w/ Otters and Babs
Turn 8, 710 AD
Scandinavia and Spain have Banking and we have nothing to trade them for it.
IBT: England declared on the vikes.
Turn 9, 720 AD Nothing of note
Persia has banking. Now there’s a good reason to invade.
Us – Metal, Celts – 5gpt, 20g and Music Theory
IBT: Nothing
Turn 10, 730 AD
No deals other than pumping other civs for a few gold for the world map

Save, PTW 730 AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/PTW_730_AD.SAV)

JB,

My input would be to go for physics, and hope for a trade, which should be easy enough. Then again, banking is usually left open for the human. Nav is not, but would laos be a great choice. Of course, with physics being the longest, you should be able to get two of the three others in trade if you get to physics first. If you're not first, then you get nothing. In that case, banking may be better. If you think that we can get there first, based on recent trades and our research rate, then go for physics.

I'd go with either physics or banking. If we get banking and trade it around some of the AI will go for DEM next being a gov tech. Could disrupt their progress from the lower half of the tech tree.

As for the Otto and their UU. When we go to war with PER we could MA with OTTO and hopefully get them to send their offensive units that direction (away from us), once the PER are finished off we could align ourselves with one of the middle civs against OTTO and hopefully trap most of his armies awat from home.

This game sounds like its shifting away from the original goal of a pre1500 space launch, or is controlling our continent (and a large number of cities) key for that goal?

Ah yes! We were going to go for the space race. It doesn't hurt to remind the players of that since most of us are involved in several SG's. I would like to get back on tract for the launch as all my other SG's are aimed at conquest.

Leaning towards physics.

With no benefit from MP's I'm also looking at disbanding most of our warriors because upgrades are so darn expensive.

Additional thoughts?

If we're going for space launch, I would stick with just researching required techs (except maybe democracy) and trading for the rest. Physics sounds good to me also.

The save is in the body of write-up...

730 AD

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/ptw1.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/ptw2.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/ptw3.jpg

I think this is experienced with some firewalls sometimes. Never happened to me, but I have heard of this before...


Unfortunately, even after turning off all firewalls, scriptblocks, spyware blocks, etc., I still can't see saves from jb1964. Can someone please attach it for me? Thanks, Bobbie

Unfortunately, even after turning off all firewalls, scriptblocks, spyware blocks, etc., I still can't see saves from jb1964. Can someone please attach it for me? Thanks, Bobbie


Here try this one.

thanks, DJMGator13, got it :)

Turn 0 (730ad)

ibt
Anjar courthouse => harbor
Bukhara starts aquaduct
Mosul library => market

Greece moved archer next to Taif

Turn 1 (740ad)

switch Taif to spear and rush
divert one galley to island with Taif and Tyre but don't unload troops - hopefully next turn Persia will dow on us and give us reverse WW (to try to help this along, I demanded banking, which was refused)

ibt

renew rop with Vikings for their world map(they have physics)
we lost our supply of gems, Xerses didn't want to renew
Unfortunately when we lost the gems, a lot of cities rioted
Taif spear => harbor

Turn 2 (750ad)

lux slider to 20%
position troops for dow next turn

ibt Yamama Library => courthouse
Persia is building JS Bach's for us - how nice
Babylonians are building Magellan's

turn 3 (760ad)

change research to 10%

trade spain 192g and 29gpt for Physics
Trade ottomans physics, 10g, and 8gpt for Military Tradition
Trade Celts Physics for Banking, WM, 4g
Trade Babylon saltpeter for Navigation, WM, 186g, 16gpt
Trade France Monotheism for furs and 9g
Trade Spain Navigation for dyes, Wines, WM, and 185g
Trade England horses for Silks, 8g, WM
Trade Ottomans Navigation for WM and 31g (mainly so someone else doesn't trade it away very cheap)
Trade Persia Chemistry for 30g (so he doen't have anything to upgrade or buy alliances)

Tried to do gpt deals to hopefully keep anyone from allying with Persia

lux slider to 10%

MM Mecca for Copernicus in 12

Rush Market in Khurasan for 104g (once built will probably be able to go to 0% lux until war weariness starts)

sci slider to 40% for ToG in 15

DoW on Persia

land troops on Persian soil, kill one archer and one spear in Tyre

ibt

AW defeats Persian Sword
AW defeats persian Longbow
AW retreats from persian Longbow
Muscat flipped to ottomans :mad:

turn 4 (770ad)

upgrade 11 AW to cavs

AW defeats spear and captures Tyre

Near Parsagade:
AW defeats musket
AW retreats pike
AW defeats pike
AW defeats pike
AW defeats longbow
Parsagade defended by single longbow

Near Sidon:
AW retreats pike
AW retreats pike
AW defeats pike
AW defeats pike and captures Sidon

Unload cat and AW on stack of 1hp AW outside Sidon

ibt

Celts and Scandinavia sign MA against England
England building Bach's
all units survive counter attacks by persian units but are redlined
Baghdad harbor => aquaduct
Sidon riots
Balkh temple => colloseum (for culture)

Turn 5 (780ad)

Near Sidon:
AW defeats longbow
AW defeats longbow

Near Parsagade:
3/4 AW defeats 4 longbow
2/4 AW retreats 3 longbow
2/5 elite defeats 3 longbow, Gets leader, and captures Parsagade with gems and intact harbor!!!! [dance] :beer: [party] :clap:

options for leader: Magellan's, JS bach, Copernicus, army, palace jump

We don't have the $ to investigate the multiple cities building Bachs and Copernicus. We are due for Copernicus in 10, and if we rushed it it would be fairly corrupt. A palace jump might take advantange of the rank bug exploit, but would put us out of the race for copernicus. I'm leaning towards JS Bachs or Army. Please give me some input on your thoughts.

[/IMG]http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/zarthsptwleadershot.jpg

I like the Bach choice also, but is there a cascade risk if we rush Bachs now?

I guess a better question would be do we think we can time Cop Obs. & Bachs for the same turn and get both?

Mecca can not switch to the Military Academy (with no prior army) if we lose out on Cop Obsm, so there is a large potential shield loss there.

The second half of my turns

ok - will load leader up next turn to send back for js's at same time as copernicus (although, about that time we will learn ToG, if we want to try for copernicus and Newton, that's another option)

upgrade the 5 AW's in Parsagade (rax was intact, too :D )

switch Yamama from courthouse to harbor so we can upgrade galleys

ibt

one of our gems was plundered
two redlined AW near Sidon died
Basra Harbor => cav
Resistance ends in Sidon
Adyab musket => temple

turn 6 (790ad)

Near Sidon
Get elite AW

Near Parsagade
Uthman (leader) starts voyage back to homeland
Get elite Cav
get second elite cav

ibt

Parsagade riots as we quelled 4 resisters (only 1 left)
Najran harbor => cav
Kufah harbor => cav


Turn 7 (800ad)

AW retreats 4hp pike
AW defeats 4hp pike
AW defeats 4hp spear and recaptures Bayt Ras (had flipped during one of my earlier turns - of the 6 cits, 4 are Arabian)
Cav loses 3hp musket
cav retreats 3hp musket

ibt

England and Scandanavia sign peace treaty
elite cav defeats 4hp longbow
resistance ends in Parsagade
Utica temple => Harbor
Theveste temple => Harbor (may want to change this to rax)
Fez market => aquaduct
Shiraz Market => library
Babylon completed Copernicus :mad: :cry:

Turn 8 (810ad)

Switch Mecca to University for loss of 31 shields :cry:
switch Fez to JS Bach's and rush with leader

AW loses 3hp musket
AW retreat 3hp musket
AW loses 3hp musket
AW loses 3hp musket (musket promotes)
AW retreats 3/4 hp musket
elite AW defeats 3/4 hp musket
cav retreats 4hp musket
cav defeats 4hp musket
cav retreats 4hp musket
cav retreats 4hp musket

ibt

lose 2 elites to counterattacks
Mecca University => cav
Khurasan rax => settler (for 2 tile jungle island NW of Parsagade)
Aden library => duct
Fez Js Bach's => duct

turn 9 (820ad)

capture gordium
retreat redlined cavs to Parsagade to heal
check to see what persia would give for peace - a measly 13 gold

ibt

cav defeats knight
Fustat library => cav
Resistance in Gordium ends
Gordium riots
Mansura courthouse => cav
Babylonians are building Newton's - if we get a leader we need to grab this wonder

turn 10 (830ad)

Healing units in cities with raxes

switch mecca from cav to bank for Newton prebuild



Notes

Currently, if we keep starving persians by using scientists, we can usually

squeeze one less turn from time to research - currently ToG due in 5 or you could move sci slide to 0 try to buy it

We're down Democracy, ToG, Magnetism

2 civs have ToG, 3 have Democracy and 5 or 6 have Magnetism - So might try to get ToG and may be able to trade it for the other two

The save is attached.

:confused: I can't even see the ones I load from this game, but can see others.

@jb1964 in the future, could you just attach the save and not upload it as I am having problems with seeing the uploads from this game only (even the ones I upload) :confused:

Good turn rrau.

Bummer about Copernicus's

I didn't even know about attaching files. I'll attach from here on out. Thanks for the heads up.

RowAndLive - Up
DJMGator13 - On deck
Zarth - In the hole
jb1964 - Asleep on the bench
rrau - Just played

Just noticed that I'm up, but won't be able to play until Tuesday night. Can swap if Gator wants to grab it, otherwise I'll pick it up on Tuesday. Now, how to get back Muscat..... :hmm:

I can probably grab it tomorrow. I'll let you know if I can't.

EDIT: 4pm EST 7/26/04 I'm playing now and will post later this evening

I have a question, towards the bottom of the post, that I wanted input on so I only played 9 turns.

Preturn - 830AD
1) dial up SPN & BAB to check price on ToG - they want all our gold and 33 to 35 of our 40gpt - I do not deal we are close to it on our own
2) down lux to 0% and up sci to 50% to get ToG in 4 (vrs. 6) turns - convert some scientist to revenuer - no change in turn for ToG - now @ +33gpt
3) wake AW in Mosul move to Fustat & upgrade to cavalry
4) @rrau - thanks for saying where the settler under construction in Khursan was heading to, I almost changed him

IBT - PER moved 1 Immortal - no counterattacks / CELT complete Magellan's / 3 more civs now have ToG

Turn1 - 840AD
Leptis Magna temple => couthouse (high corruption)
Anjar harbor => library
Lux back to 10% - sci to 40% ToG in 2 at +41gpt
change Mansura from Cav to aqueduct
advance on Persepolis

IBT - notice that OTTOs have Riflemen defending in their cities / PER attacks with a knight and kill a vCAV

Turn2 - 850AD
sci to 10% - ToG due next turn - now at +192gpt
rush harbor in Suhar for happiness value - had to pull citizen off to keep from roiting

Battle for Persepolis
vCav vrs vmusket - we die inflicting no damage
vCav vrs vmusket - we win (down 1hp no promo)
vCav vrs vMusket - we redline and retreat inflict 2hp of damage
vCav vrs vmusket - we die inflicting 1hp of damage
vCav vrs vMusket - we redline and retreat inflict 2hp of damage
vCav vrs 3/4 vMusket - we redline & retreat inflict 1hp of damage
vCav vrs 2/4 vMusket - we win (down 1hp no promo)
vCav vrs 2/4 vMusket - we redline & retreat
vCav vrs 2/4 vMusket - we die inflict no damage
eCav vrs 2/4 vMusket - we win (down 3hp no promo)
4/5 eCav vrs 2/4vMusket - we win no promo - capture city with barracks and 2 cats - set to musket
upgrade both cats to cannons

IBT - OTTO offer MP for 13gpt - I decline and trade our wmap for his tmap / PER carvel moves out of Bactra

Turn3 - 860AD
learn ToG set to MAG at 40% due in 9 turns +45gpt
Damascus university => bank
Khurasan settler => musket
Suhar harbor => courthouse (wasn't sure what to build here)
change Mecca to Newton's in 12
heals troops

IBT - PER move 2 units

Turn4 - 870AD
Medina university => bank
advance troops towards Antioch
change Pasargadae to musket & rush it

IBT - na

Turn5 - 880AD
Pasargadae musket => temple
Najran cavalry => cavalry
Kufah cavalry => cavalry
Basra cavalry => cavalry
Aleppo library => marketplace
Mosul marketplace => musket

Battle for Antioch
vCav vrs rMusket - redline & retreats inflicts 1 hp of damage
vCav vrs rMusket - we die inflicting 2 hp of damage
vCav vrs rMusket - we die inflicting 1 hp of damage
vCav vrs 2/3 rMusket - redline & retreat inflict no damage
vCav vrs 2/3 rMusket - we win (no promo)
vCav vrs 2/4 vMusket - we win (-2hp no promo)
eCav vrs 1/3rMusket - we win (no promo) capture Antioch set to temple

Turn6 - 890AD
Carthage temple => courthouse
Merw marketplace => cannon
troops advance towards Bactra

Weed moment [pimp] :wallbash: - realize after ToG I should have set research back to 10%
TRADE: gems, ivory, Wmap, 232 & 7gpt to CELT for MAG
set sci to 0% convert a revenuer to scientist & set research to Steam Power

IBT - PER knight approaches Pers. / PER longbow dies attacking stack outside of Bactra

Turn7 - 900AD
Baghdad aqueduct => cav
settler founds Hama set to harbor

Battle for Bactra
2 cannon volleys miss
vCav vrs vMusket - redline & retreat inflict no damage
vCav vrs vMusket - we die inflicting no damage
vAW vrs vMusket - we die inflict 2hp of damage
3/4 vCav vrs rPike - we win (-1 hp no promo)
vAW vrs rPike - we die but redline the pike
4/5 eCav vrs 2/4vMusket - we win (-2hp PROMOS) generate a Gleader
vAW vrs 1/3 rPike - we win (-2hp no promo) capture Bactra with barracks & aqueduct set to temple

IBT - OTTO & BAB renew ROP

Turn8 - 910AD
Fustat cav => cav
heal troops and reposition towards Tarsus

IBT - PER longbow redlines and retreats one of our cavs

Turn9 - 920AD
Hippo temple => courthouse
Tyre temple => library
reposition troops towards Tarsus

Decision time: Gleader is in Mecca we can rush Newtons or let it complete in 5 turns or we can buy Economics from OTTO for Ivory & 543gold and rush Smiths

Ended my round here to post question for the team

The 920AD save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/PTW_920_AD.SAV)

Notes to next player
@Row go ahead and play 11 turns after we get a decision
1) There appears to be no units on the PER carvel – it had several chances to unload and nothing has come off it yet
2) Sci rate is at 0% been using one of the former PER citizen for sci – as I starve down the cities
3) You have a nice little stack ready for Tarsus (this is why I wanted to play turn 10 but felt the decision on the GLeader was more important)

Our new cities
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/ZPTW_02.jpg

The Babs started building Newton's first and the turn after I got notification, I switched a cav to bank for prebuild. I don't think that at this level it's enough to get Newton's by hand. Might investigate Babs and see how far from completion they are. If close, consider rushing Newton's with leader and switching Mecca to Smith's. I think Smith's is cheaper, but don't know, so may be possible to get both on same turn to keep and AI from cascading to Smiths.

I did not investigate any of the other 5 cities building Newton's.

According to the resource center Newton cost 400, Smith cost 600. Only way for both is to save Gleader for 4 more turns and build both on the same turn.

I hate rushing a wonder with only a few turns left, but it's better than losing it. If we are trying to get back on track for Space victory it would be nice to have them both.

Excellent job on Persia, DJMGator!!! :hammer::hammer::hammer:

My first instrinct is to rush Newton's, and switch the prebuild to Smith's, but I'll investigate & see - we have the income for it.

Again, very nice job. Aside from finishing Persia, my intent is to build up and prepare for the coming dogpile. ;)

It sounds like we have a shot at getting Newton's on our own. I would take the gamble to finish Newton's and rush Smith's.

[/delurk] I know this is a bit late in saying, but if you guys need a sub down the line, I'll be more than happy to fill in. I'm a PTW emperor player who probably should be playing deity now (non variant emperor is too easy for me) who prefers to win by conquest or domination but can play any for any victory condition. However, I have no prior SG experience :( Since this is one of the few PTW sgs still going on, and I want to start getting some experience with sgs aside from lurking, I thought what the heck. But whatever, have fun! [/relurk]

Just a quick note that I was unable to finish last night. I did note that we supposedly have a scientist somewhere, but I couldn't find him, and Steam was to be done in "--", so I took the liberty of raising research.

Also, call me a coward, but there was way too many people building wonders, and I was concerned about losing out on both, so I rushed it, and switched Mecca to Smith's. I don't know if I'll find out before my turn ends. I was tempted to save the leader for ToE, but again, there was so many wonder builds going on, and enough people have medicine already that we probably won't even get to start it, so I used the leader.

Just a quick note that I was unable to finish last night. I did note that we supposedly have a scientist somewhere, but I couldn't find him, and Steam was to be done in "--", so I took the liberty of raising research.



The scientist was in one of the starving PER cities, so it would need to be reset every turn, after the city starves.

OK, thanks. I've learned something new.

[/delurk] I know this is a bit late in saying, but if you guys need a sub down the line, I'll be more than happy to fill in. I'm a PTW emperor player who probably should be playing deity now (non variant emperor is too easy for me) who prefers to win by conquest or domination but can play any for any victory condition. However, I have no prior SG experience :( Since this is one of the few PTW sgs still going on, and I want to start getting some experience with sgs aside from lurking, I thought what the heck. But whatever, have fun! [/relurk]


If someone drops out you'll the first to replace him.

920 – 0
set prefs. GL to Damascus. Can’t find a scientist. Set research to 10%.

IBT: Lose an elite cav to a vet LB at Tarsus. Balkh colosseum > cathedral in 10. Babs begin Shakespeare’s. Bab’s & Otto’s begin Smith’s.

930 – 1
@ Tarsus: Two cannon shots take 1 each off 2 muskets. Vet cav -1 kills 4/4 musket. Vet cav -2 kills 3/4 musket. Vet can flawlessly kills 3/4 musket. 3/5 elite cav kills ¼ archer flawlessly & captures Tarsus & worker. Tarsus > temple in 30. 9 resistors. Worker to Persepolis. Convert units near Suhar to Galleons. Use Mecca workers to build more mines at Damascus to speed bank build. An investigation of Bursa shows that the Ottos will build Newtons in 2 turns! :sad: Switch bank build at Damascus to Colosseum in 1, for a loss of 2 shields. Move GL to Damascus.

Bursa: @12 = 4h/4c/4u, 11spt, +4fpt, 39commercept, 36/3bpt, 1salt, 2 iron, 2 horses in box (need to block saltpeter, as covering 3 iron isn’t enough), 4 rifles, 1 galleon, colossus, 221g, 22 culture, democracy.

I bump research up to get –gpt, and go shopping for economics. Only Osman will sell. Buy economics for ivory + 543g (out of 630).

I believe that the Ottos & Babs have found an island under the fog N of center. EDIT - no island.

IBT: More island evidence. Damascus colosseum > bank. Khursan musket > cathedral in 12. Anjar lib > musket in 8. Balkh expands influence, but gains no tiles.

940 – 2
Swtch Mecca to Smith’s in 10. Switch Damascus to Newtons & rush.
@ Tarsus, 3/5 cav -2 kills LB. 3/4 cav -0 kills LB, returns to Tarsus & forts. Worker from Persepolis to forest. Move one of the iron occupying cav off iron (not roaded) to head to the Ottos only salt instead.

@ Arbela, 5 vet cav & 3 cannon occupy mined cattle tile. Cavs fort.

Trade Vikings TM for TM.

IBT: Vikings give us 1gpt + TM for ROP. We complete Newton’s in Damascus!!! [party]
We beat the Ottos on the same turn!!! :wow:
Damascus Newton’s > bank in 8. Mosul musket > rax in 5. Tarsus riots > starve & tax em. Bactra riots > add clown. Babs, Ottos, Celts, Spanish, Vikings, English & us building Smith’s. Babs, Otto’s, Vikings & Celts building Shakespeare’s.

950 – 3
Mini-SOD moves to mine N of Arbela. Worker to Bayt Ras. Horse forts on Ottoman saltpeter. Mine some. Move some. Blockade narrows at Sufah. Horse occupies Otto spices.

IBT: Najran cav > bank in 15. Kufah cav > bank in 15. Iron near Aleppo exhausted. Lose supply of furs, dyes & wines! :oops:

960 – 4
@Arbela: 3 bombardments fail. Vet cav -3, retreats from musket -1, Vet cav -1 kills musket, vet cav -3 kills 3/4 musket, vet cav die promoting pike to 2/4, vet cav -3 kills 2/4 pike, captures Arbela. Arbela > temple. 9 resistors, add 2 taxers.

@Tarsus, elite cav -0 kills 3/3 LB, forts on cannons.

MM citz’s at Persepolis. Galleon finds no island yet.
Doh!!! I forgot to make deal with Spain for luxes. :rage:

IBT: English demand 170g + WM + ivory + horses for silks. No.
Babs offer 16gpt for saltpeter. No thank you. Mecca riots > add clown. Medina riots > add 3 clowns. Damascus riots > add 1 clown. Antioch riots > add 3 clowns. Khurasan riots > add 2 clowns. Fustat riots > add 1 clown. Aden duct > harbor in 12. Yamama harbor > court in 20. Mansura riots > add 1 clown. Fez duct > musket in 10. Shiraz lib > bank in 32. Aydab riots > add 1 clown.
Spanish begin Shakespeare.
Basra cav > musket in 7.

970 – 5
@Arbela: cannon takes 1 off an advancing LB, 3/4 cav kills 2/3 LB. Add Persian worker to Bayt Ras as taxman. <save>
Build an embassy in Spain for 100g.
Madrid: @12 = 12h/0c/0u, grow in 3, pop=812500, democracy, 4g, 19spt, 26/+2fpt, 50commerce, +32/-1bpt, 3 muskets, 1 rifle, build rifle in 1, no wonders, but most improvements, 16 culturept, 10 luxes coming in, 1 saltpeter, 3 iron, 3 horse.

Buy Incense and Dyes from Spain for WM + 72gpt + 2g. Annoyed > Polite.
England & Scandinavia have silks, France has furs.
Trade TMs with Osman.
Build an embassy in Paris for 76g.
Paris: @12 = 8h/1c/3u, grow in 29, pop=783750, republic, 4g, 23spt, 25/+1fpt, 33 commerce, +22/-1bpt, 4 muskets, 1 sword, university in 7, no wonders, base improvements, 12culturept, 12 luxes coming in, 2 iron, 2 horses, NO saltpeter.
Expanding in 8.
Trade with France: we get furs, TM, 1g and give Chivalry, Ivory, WM
Hold off on silks, as they both want way too much.
MM all the cities.

IBT: That Persian caravel finally lands some troops near Arbela – knight & immortal. Arbela riots > more taxes. Hama riots > add clown.

980 – 6
@Arbela: cannons take 2 off of knight, miss immortal, elite cav -1 kills immortal, vet cav -1 kills 2/4 knight.

IBT: Ottos may be moving rifles toward our border. Baghdad cav > musket in 7. Mansura duct > rax in 6. Bukhara duct > bank in 27.

990 – 7
movin & upgrading

IBT: Trade TM with Iroquois. Arbela riots again > add more clowns. Fustat cav > musket in 6. Mosul rax > musket in 7. English begin Shakespeare’s,

1000 – 8
Zzzz

IBT: Medina bank > musket in 5. Tarsus riots > add clown. Celts complete Shakespeare in Lugdunum. No cascade! [party]

1010 – 9
@Susa: Elite cav -1, kills musket, generates GL Hind! :clap:
Vet cav -2 kills pike, captures Susa! No resistors – Persians destroyed!
Hind moves toward Pasargadae.

IBT: Anjar musket > musket in 8.

1020 – 10
Change Susa > worker in 9. Hind to Antioch.

IBT: Vikings declare on English. Merw cannon > cannon in 14.

1030 – 11
New cannon to Anjar. Rush temple in Arbela for 100g.

<save>

Comments:
- GL on northmost blockading galleon, headed for home.
- Next player to check for trades & expiring deals.
- I’ve been upgrading units & trying to build them in the core, pls continue. We need D!
- Smith’s is due in 2. I hope!!!
- we have interdiction on Otto saltpeter & some spices.
- maybe trade for nationalism & research industrialization next to get USufferage?
Enjoy!

Nice :goodjob:
Back to back turnsets with a Great Leader.

:goodjob: :cool: :thumbsup: [dance] [party] :band: :hatsoff: :salute:

Sweet sets team! :goodjob:

DJMGator13
RowAndLive - Just played
Zarth - Up
jb1964 - On deck
rrau - In da hole

i got the game. So, what do we do with the leader?

So, what do we do with the leader?

I think based on our tech pace we have missed the window for a pre1500 space launch. Do we have enough cities to get to a 4-5 turn research rate, soon?

We are only 2 turns from Smiths and no other Wonder is available unless we can trade to get free artisry and go for shakespear. At this point I might be tempted to park the GL and push our reserch towards Sci Method and the ToE. Once we hit the ToE slingshot we can trade for the top level techs that we are missing.

If we want to keep fighting an army might not be a bad use. The OTTOs have siphai and riflemen and the BABs are 4 techs ahead (riflemen included), that leaves the ZUL as easy prey.

Zulu as easy prey for whom? Do want to keep warring?

I vote to hang onto the GL and go for ToE.

The zulu are so far behind they aren't contributing anything to the game. If they have a lux, I say take them out and put their land to good use, and maybe use the leader to do a palace jump to former persian lands near zulu lands. If they don't have a lux, wouldn't bother and would save the leader for ToE.

While attacking the Zulu is very tempting, a quick look around will show that we are ripe targets ourselves. The old Carthage areas are basically undefended, the core is doing ok for a small attack, the new territories are fairly weak, and useless against an Ottoman attack. We're also losing the culture war there, and need to get Muscat back. The Persian territories need to be built up better for defense.

We have a lot of work to do, and can't afford to go on attacking right now.

I say save the GL for ToE, and head there swiftly. Keep trying to slow the Ottos, but be prepared to pull out if they give up on our ROP. Since research is so low, we might as well go the scientist route, and max out production of units & culture, trade using cash where possible, and possibly try a steal.

Good idea Row. I didn't take the in depth look that you did but it just seemed we were overextending.

I know that you're still within your limit, but how do things look, Zarth?

:bump: Zarth? Zarth? Anyone?

hm - it's been 5 days since zarth's got it, I say jb1964 takes it.

:bump:

Works for me...

According to his profile Zarth has not been online since the 1st.

Time for a skip.

I've PM'ed JB1964. Hopefully we'll hear from him today.

JB will try to finish by Sunday night.

Got it. Will get moving on it soon.

Moving...

The Save, PTW_1130AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/PTW_1130_AD.SAV)

Our population seems happy beyond our needs. Turn Lux down to 0%. Turning up research to bring Steam Power in 8 turns. Building culture on the boarder w/ Otters, Musket to reinforce the vulnerable homeland, and improvements elsewhere to improve cash for research. A rush to Sci. Meth. is a fine goal but let’s see what happens after the Smith’s race is over. I’m turning on the Governor to manage moods in case I forget an F1 check. I would rather have a clown for a turn than a riot.

IBT: Nothing

Turn 1, 1040 AD
Camascus, bank to musket
Arbela, temple to musket
Basra, something to bank
Mansura, something to musket
Fez, musket to musket
Balkh, musket to musket

Moved some workers to build a fortress or two since they have woefully little else to do. Shuffled some forces towards the Otter frontlines. Hit <CR> to see if we get Smith’s….

IBT: And… We get Smiths! Zero cascade! Suffrage and ToE must not be on the table. If we’re not at war then the smart play here is to hold onto the GL and maneuver for the wonder opportunity.

Turn 2, 1050 AD
Mecca, Smiths to bank
Antioch, temple to courthouse

A few worker movements etc.

IBT: TBD – Going camping for the evening. Will play in the late morning and then I’m off to work on an Eagle Scout project with one of our scouts.

IBT: Otters are building Suffrage
Turn 3, 1060 AD
Medina, musket to musket
Baghdad, musket to musket
Fustat, musket to musket
Aydab,, harbor to duct

Moving troops around and setting up workers to put in rail net.
Agree to RoP w/ Spain and get 4g. Yeha! No other deals w/ Spain.
No other deals to be had.
Research to 70%, Steam in 3.

IBT: Babs are building Suffrage. This might set up a cascade to Scientific Method.
Turn 4, 1070 AD
Damascus, musket to musket
Khurasan, On the boarder w/ the Otters, cathedral to bank
Mosul, Musket to bank
We still have a mix of infrastructure and defensive units building.
I check for a deal out a sense of duty. None to be had. Steam in two.
Hurry a worker in Susa to build road to second Gems for some trading material.

IBT: Nothing
Turn 5, 1080 AD
Susa, worker to worker

Research to 50%, Steam Power in 1.

IBT: Steam comes in and set sights for Medicine in 8 at break even cash flow.
Turn 6, 1090 AD
Aden, harbor to bank. Harbor will allow us to MM surrounding cities a bit by shifting workers to the coastal waters.
Trade Celts Steam, 4gpt, 91g, WM, Ivory and Gems for Medicine. They are the only ones out there w/ Medicine and lacking Steam. We set our sights on Electricity in 16 at near break even cash flow. No body has electricity.
Elizabeth has Democracy, Nationalism and silks while lacking both Medicine and Steam. We can get Democracy and gold for Steam.
Need to be leery of trades that could advance the Otters or the Babs until ws can get a good grip on ToE.

Feedback? Thanks rrau!

Steam to England for Democracy, 11gpt and 61g. Nationalism was off the table. Democracy’s not going to get us anything else but at least we can use it shortly.

IBT: Nothing
Turn 7, 1100 AD
Pasargadae, temple to courthouse to combat corruption
Damascus, musket to musket
Bayt Ras, musket to worker

Little movement. Had six-worker stack to pop rails but one turned out to be a Persian and screwed me up.
Time to check for deals and move one.

IBT:
Renew RoP w/ Otters and get 93g for it.
Renew RoP w/ Babs and get TM
Babs lack saltpeter and Otters need coal….

Turn 8, 1110 AD
Mecca, bank to cav in 3 (28spt)
Medina musket to cav
Najran, something to university
Anjar, musket to bank
Fez, musket to bank

Coal to Otters for 55gpt and 10g.
Saltpeter to Babs for 40gpt and 4g
Can’t buy Nationalism or Industry from anyone so I put the extra cash into research.

IBT: Nothing
Turn 9, 1120 AD
Kufah, bank to worker
Fustat, musket to worker
Mansura, musket to harbor
Balkh, musket to worker, had to do a three city swap to get worker in one.

Workers railing.

IBT: Nothing
Turn 10, 1130 AD
Damascus, something to worker
Susa, something to worker
Baghdad, something to university
Kufah, worker to university
Fustat, worker to university

Hmm, worker in Balkh did not come in. One of the 10 shields is corrupt. Something must have changed in the IBT. Next worker please MM the cities around Balkh since I have messed it up.

The Spanish, Celts, Babs and Otters just picked up Sanitation.
Electricity in 7 at 70%.

The Save, PTW_1130AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/PTW_1130_AD.SAV)

[dance] Smith's [dance]

I'd do the trade with elizabeth before someone else does. Try for nationalism and trade it to babs and ottos for industrialization if they don't have it - they will then probably research communism and not electricity. It would be very nice if you could get both nationalism and democracy from lizzie for steam and medicine, but I don't know if that will be possible. I agree with holding the leader.

as far as governments, we do want to be in democracy, but I'm not sure we can afford the lost turns before getting ToE.

One thing I like to do once I get industrialization and am heading for ToE is to rush a factory in my ToE city and start a prebuild. Most times doing this I can beat the AI's building it in cities without factories - and we could then save the leader for Hoovers if it's successful, or if it looks like we're going to lose out, use leader for ToE and switch prebuild to Hoovers. (would have to be in one of our rare cities on a river)

my 0.02

@jb - Very nice job so far! I agree with pretty much everything that rrau has said, except that I'm even further from the need for Democracy. Definitely take the raod to ToE, and use the leader if needed, or keep it for Hoover's if possible. ToE is a sigular event, while democract can come at any time. Always go for the singualr event. The trades advice is sound.

Thanks team.

Turns posted below w/ save.

Traded for Dem. Nationalism was never to be had.
Traded resources for cash and upped our research rate.

can someone attach the save please - thanks

can someone attach the save please - thanks


OK (but this is less than 10 charactes)

thanks, got it

turn 0 (1130ad)

MM cities around Balkh
notice we have a nice blockade of the inland sea :)

ibt

lots of ottos troops moving about
Mecca cav => cav
Damascus worker => cav
Balkh worker => university (for culture)

turn 1 (1140ad)

moved some workers and built rails

ibt

renew rop with Scandanavia and receive 4g and Free artistry for it
Persiopolis musket => worker
Yamama courthouse => aquaduct

turn 2 (1150ad)

more rails

ibt

Aleppo market => harbor
Taif harbor => rax

turn 3 (1160)

more rails

ibt Scandanavia and England signed Peace Treaty
Mecca cav => cav
Merw cannon => aquaduct (growing now with rails)
Spain is building US

turn 4 (1170ad)

more rails

ibt

we lost our supply of incense and dyes from spain - we were paying 72 gpt for them, will not renew and will see if can trade for some techs

lost our supply of furs - renew. We give chemistry and get furs, WM, 1g

Medina cav => colosseum (used the zoom to city option to scroll through cities and prevent riots)
Susa worker => temple

turn 5 (1180)

Spain and ottos know electrictiy :mad: (due in 1) - trade Spain gems, 174g, 137gpt for Industrialization and electricity
Trade Lizzi Industrialization, electricity & gems for Nationalism, silks & WM
Trade scandanavia Industrialization for Incense & WM
Trade Ottos ivory for 356g and worker
Switch Mecca from cav to factory as prebuild for ToE - don't have the cash to rush a factory :(
research slider to 60% for Sci Method in 10 at loss of 3gpt, by hiring a couple scientists, I can get it to 9 at loss of 5gpt
And, I hate doing it, but I know another AI will trade it to them, so trade Babs electricity for corporation, WM & 3g

Guys, we're in trouble tech wise - we're down at least communism, sanitation, steel :(

We NEED ToE

ibt

Persiopolis worker => courthouse
Damascus cav => stock exchange

turn 6 (1190)

change Medina from colosseum to stock exchange
MM Mecca to complete factory in 10 instead of 6 (hired a couple taxmen and move cit off of mountain) ToE due in 9
more rails

ibt

Basra bank => stock exchange
Bayt Ras worker => worker

turn 7 (1200)

Check of F7 reveals: Babs, vikings, england, spain, and ottos all building US

more rails

ibt

Utica courthouse => worker
Bactra temple => worker
Celts joined in building US

turn 8 (1210)

more rails

ibt

Ottos and Spain signed a MMP
Ottos request trade of TM's, nope but do give them 10g as a token of goodwill
Zulu request trade of TM's, nope
Khurasan bank => factory
Mansura harbor => market

turn 9 (1220)

more rails

ibt

turn 10 (1230)

more rails

Notes:

England will do a gpt deal for lux
Scandanavia will trade sanitation for corporation
No one knows scientific method yet
we're down: refining, steel, communism, and sanitation

Scientific Theory due in 4
Mecca's prebuild for ToE is a factory due in 5 - once the switch is made, remember to MM for maximum spt (not there right now or prebuild would complete too soon, also didn't want to use US as prebuild as if it was built before we learn Scientific Method, we would have cascaded to a built factory and lost the accumulated shields)

Might consider planting a new city in the hole in the former Persian lands.

Have fun :)

The Save:

rrau, Turn 5 was sweet. I don't ever seem to pull off those massive, multi-party trades. I guess that requires imagination.

Warning: A factory is only 240s of the needed 600s for ToE . With US costing 800s we could see a cascade to ToE and a one turn build. That would be tragic. Specifically check for the discovery of SciMeth every turn!

If SciMeth is out before US finishes then we should rush it and create a pre-build for Hoovers.

Darn - I wish that I had noticed this was ready last night, then I could have played this instead of a solo game. I checked at 9:30, but was too early. OK, I guess that I'm up, and will see what I can do. I had been planning on sleep tonight to make up for last night... :sad:

Again, I'll see what I can do.

If SciMeth is out before US finishes then we should rush it and create a pre-build for Hoovers.

Plus we can then trade Sci Method for the other techs we are behind. Communism is a deadend tech and unless we see ourselves declaring war on other civs to finish the game we will not need it. If we get declared upon we earn War Happiness which will delay and offset WW.

My apologies, but I'll need a swap or skip, as I didn't get to it last night, and won't get a chance to go back to it until Sunday.

I can grab it & play tomorrow, possibly late tonight.

Roster
DJMGator13 - up
RowAndLive - swapped - on deck
Zarth - skipped last go round
jb1964 -
rrau -

Hey guys I haven't gotten to this yet and now I have a hurricane projected to pass over me on Friday. I do not think I'll have any time to play it tomorrow. If you don't mind waiting till Saturday I should be able to play depending on what the storm does as it passes thru.

You actually have two storms headed your way. I used to live in Florida and don't miss the hurricanes.

Keep your head down.

I'm out until al least Tuesday.

That's fine. I should be able to grab it on Sunday night, or Monday, after you're done.

Hold on tight.

I'll grab it tonight.

Hope everything is well for Gator...

Roster
RowAndLive - up
DJMGator13 - on deck
Zarth - no posts since August 1 - hope he's on vacation...
jb1964 -
rrau -

Hey guys, I'm still here. Just getting back in playing mode. Storm turned NNE 2-3 hours earlier than expected and the bad winds passed by south & east of me. Until that turn the eye was expected to pass right over me. So instead of 110mph winds we got 30-40mph.

Go ahead and play Row and I'll grab it after you.

In process.

Gator - I'm going to have to take a skip this round to deal with some RL family issues. I should be back for next round. Please take it from the last save.

OK I can grab it now.

Hey guys got tied up. I'll play today and post tonight.

I'm up in BNH02 and will play this weekend. Will pick this up on Sunday, assuming Gator is finished, if Zarth is still under radar.

From last turnset
Techs's down refining, steel, communism & sanitation
Sci method in 4
Mecca prebuild for TOE is factory

Preturn - 1230AD
Put taxman back to work in Mecca (fac still in 5)
Don't need Communism a dead-end tech
Should be able to trade for others when we get ToE slingshot
Change courthouse in Arbela to settler and rush for 44 gold

Turn 1 - 1240AD
Arbela settler => courthouse
Mosul bank => aqueduct
Tyre library => marketplace
rush harbor in Hama
switched 2 scientist to taxmen

IBT - na

Turn 2 - 1250AD
Utrica worker => harbor
Bactra worker => marketplace
Hama harbor => courthouse
fire clown in Hama & taxman in Tarsus - all citizens working
Sci to 60% SM still in 2 but scientist were not enough to keep at 2 turns
found Tabuk (in the hole) set to library

IBT - na

Turn 3 - 1255AD
Carthage courthouse => marketplace
Tarsus temple => courthouse
Bukhara bank => harbor
change Balkh from University to aqueduct ( no growth)
sci down to 50%

IBT - SPN wants to trade Tmaps - I agree / then SPN wants ROP sure why not / Celts trade Tmaps also

Turn 4 - 1260AD
learn Sci Method set to Atomic theory
Fustat university => factory
switch Mecca to TOE in 15 turns - then MM it to complete in 10 turns while losing 2 food per turn - TOE will complete before city starves
I turn off research - the only techs we can research before getting TOE are already known by other civs and can easily be traded for - this gets us +505 gpt

IBT - na

Turn5 - 1265AD
Najran University => aqueduct
Anjar bank => aqueduct
Bayt Ras worker => courthouse
rush aqueduct in Balkh & Mosul

IBT - OTTO, BAB & SPN learn replaceable parts

Turn6 - 1270AD
Damascus stock exchange => factory
Fez bank => university
Shiraz bank => aqueduct
Balkh aqueduct => university
Mosul aqueduct => university

IBT - BAB try to extort Sci Method :eek: - no DOW

Turn7 - 1275AD
We are 7 turns from ToE
We are in no shape to take on BAB or OTTO if they declare on us for refusing to trade Sci Method so I go ahead and trade
Tech Clac shows value of Sci Method at 2800 while Ref 3885 Steel 3400 & Rparts 3400
I was hoping we would be able to package Sci Method with Atomic Theory and get all these techs w/o having to pay gold or gpt

TRADE: Sci Method to BAB for Refining, Wmap, 140 gold & 23 gpt
TRADE: Sci Method, 1575gold & Wmap to OTTO for Rparts
TRADE: Sci Method to ENG for Sanitation & 14 gold
TRADE: Sci Method to SPN for wines, 90 gold & 30gpt
TRADE: rubber to OTTO for 1000 of our gold back - (BAB has 2 sources of rubber, so I figured they could get it from them anyhow)
TRADE: Wmap & 1075gold to SPN for Dyes giving us 8 luxs

Was not able to acquire steel, but we are still at +608gpt for 7 more turns.

IBT - OTTO renews ROP straight up / renew ROP with BAB straight up - then they Declare war on us anyhow :mad: / OTTO is building ToE popup

So I do this
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/ZPTW_03.jpg


Turn 8 - 1280AD
Susa temple => infantry
sign up OTTO in MA vrs BAB for Wmap & 400gold / OTTO DoW on BAB
build embassy with ZUL and sign them up in MA vrs BAB (then gift them Military Tradition to help fight BAB) - ZUL issue DoW
build embassy with ENG and sign them up in MA vrs BAB getting Communism while giving Rubber, Refining & Ivory - ENG issue DoW on BAB
sign up Vikings in MA vrs BAB for gems & Communism - Vikings issue DoW on BAB
build embassy with IRQ and sign them up in MA vrs BAB for gems (then gift them Military Tradition to help fight BAB) - IRQ issue DoW
sign up FRA in MA vrs BAB for Military Tradition - FRA issues DoW
Sell Vikings my Wmap for 16gold (need 9 more gold to establish embassy with the Celts)
build embassy with CELT and sign them up in MA vrs BAB for gems and ivory - CELT issue DoW on BAB
SPN is the only one I did not get a MA with because they wanted 29gpt - hopefully one of the other civs will bring them in on our side

IBT - OTTO & Vikings sign MPP / Spain must have felt left out they DoW on BAB on their own / Vikings got Steel

Turn9 - 1285AD
Good thing I got OTTO on our side - BAB had troops in OTTO territory
Medina stock exchange => infantry
Antioch courthouse => barracks
Yamama Aqueduct => barracks

TRADE coal & Refining to VIK for Steel - we are now at tech parity
upgrade 15 muskets to Infantry & 1 cannon to artillery

IBT - BAB are bombing with ironclads our new southern territory

Turn10 - 1290AD
Pasargadae courthouse => library
Kufah university => factory
upgrade 4 more muskets - start moving troops towards Yamama for transport across channel
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Notes to next player
1) ToE completes in 4 turns - only OTTO are building it and they just started a few turns ago
2) I rehooked up a coal that BAB bombed so we can trade a coal to OTTO again
3) When ToE completes we need to MM to get the food growing again & restart research
4) We still have our Great Leader waiting in Mecca for Hoover Dam as soon as ToE is done

1290AD Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/PTW_1290AD.SAV)

Nice dogpile with Babs on the bottom :cool: . How's our military. Is there any chance of getting some cities/resources/lux's?

[edit] never mind - I downloaded the save and looked and we're pretty pitiful right now. :(

How's our military. Is there any chance of getting some cities/resources/lux's?

[edit] never mind - I downloaded the save and looked and we're pretty pitiful right now. :(

Yeah that was why I trade away Sci Method when I did, otherwise we might be on the bottom of that dogpile. I think we have enough infantry for a frontline stance but definately no offensive intentions.

Sweet set. We're going to get both ToE and Hoovers.

I finished BNH02 in short order, as it was pretty one dimensional, so I'll be able to pick this up tomorrow unless Zarth resurfaces.

Good night.

Gator, I'm confused about one thing...

How did you trade w/ the Babs without yeilding to their demand for Sci Meth?

When a demand is made I thought the only option was "yes" or "no". You seem to have been able to drag them into negotiations.

I don't get it. :confused:

Gator, I'm confused about one thing...

How did you trade w/ the Babs without yeilding to their demand for Sci Meth?

When a demand is made I thought the only option was "yes" or "no". You seem to have been able to drag them into negotiations.

I don't get it. :confused:

I said no to their demand on the IBT, knowing we had OTTO in between us. If they declared immediately I would have traded OTTO Sci Method and signed the MA. They did not declare on my refusal. Then I completed all the trades during my next turn.

I was more concerned if OTTO demanded it from us. If we refused him we would be on the bottom of the dogpile. Actually I would have probably given it to OTTO and we would have lost on the trading.

Kewl, thanks for the explanation. Great trades. We have tech parity and we're about to pull out to a nice lead.

Pre flight in 1290 AD
Not sure what troops are headed to what transport quite yet.

IBT – Agree to RoP w/ the Zulu
Turn 1, 1295 AD
Baghdad, factory
Load units onto caravel and send then to former Persian lands.
7 Cav units begin a trek over Zulu land to join in the fray.
Every other civ is in a democracy. I’m interested how the dynamics of this dog-pile will turn out once the people start getting bent.

IBT – Renew RoP w/ Vikes. Celts MPP w/ Spain
Turn 2, 1300 AD
Building factories and infrastructure.

IBT – Uh oh, the Otters have just completed Suffrage. If this cascades us out of ToE I’ll freak. :eek: Plenty civs cascade to ToE but no finishers. Babs will cascade after our turn so lets hope they haven’t accumulated 600 sheilds.

Turn 3, 1305 AD
Well, the Zulu are blocking our entry into this war by not letting us sidestep Tugela. I'm willing to bet the Babs will be opening that door for us shortly. Shaka realy has some sad, little units.
RR tracks going down all over.
Isabella is socking away some coin (~850g).
Well, here comes the moment of truth for ToE

IBT – Celts sink a Bab inronclad. Redlined Otter Sipahi are returning from Bab territory and more are charging forth. Otters are taking Bab cities. Zulu ancient age units are getting slaughtered in front of our waiting cavalry.
We loose our furs from France. Peeps are happy so we won’t be renewing w/Joan.
ToE is ours! [dance] We get Atomic Theory and Electronics.

Turn 4, 1310 AD
Mecca gets to building Hoovers and we burn the leader to rush it. I guess if we’re going to have Hydro plants waiting in the wings we should get to building factories.
Can’t bring galleys up to jump the cavalry into Bab territory due to Bab ironclads.
MM Mecca to avoid starving our heroic citizens.

IBT – Celts have 5 ironclads coming into the area to land a galleon. England declares war on the Spanish :wow: so expect the Celts to declare on England. Ottomans declare on the English! Lizzy's in for a world of hurt. Yep, Celts jump on next.
Hoover’s is ours. :beer: We loose incense.
Time for a break. Will finish up tomorrow.

Turn 5, 1315 AD
Ottoman’s and Spanish have Atomic Theory.
Ozzy will give us 8969g for Electronics which would go a long way towards funding our research and rushing builds. Isabella was willing to pay in incense which we can purchase for a far lower sum and we don’t need it at this time. I’ll see what they’ll pay next turn.
Cavalry kill a Bab infantry in a fort w/ 4 retreats and no losses.

IBT – Lost our supply of silks from England.

Turn 6, 1320 AD
Osman is researching Electronics. He’s only willing to pay us 7884g (394gpt + 4g) which we’ll take to fund Combustion.
Atomic Theory to England for 217gpt + 16g.
Research at 90% w/ Combustion coming in 6 turns at +444gpt into treasury.
Cav kill another Bab infantry in the open. Vet cavalry takes out elite infantry in the face of low odds. Six cavalry run into the hills above Zariqum to attack next turn. Going to need to bring in infantry to hold.
Zulu city of Tugela is protected by a musket.

IBT – England wants an MPP. We trade Lizzy our TM for WM and 8g.

Turn 7, 1325 AD
Was about to attack Zariqum and felt I was about to get our cavalry killed so they’re now headed into Beb territory to start some pillaging.

IBT – Two of our marauding Cavs are attack in Bab territory and we have one retreat and on victory.

Turn 8, 1330 AD
Laying down RR’s and modifying some irrigated tiles to bump production in size 12 cities.
Wounded cavs retreat, the rest push towards disconnecting resources.
Research down to 80% w/ Combustion in 3.
Spain is up Combustion and Espionage. Not trading Electronics to Spain was a mistake.
Vikings will give Combustion (2250g), Espionage and Incense for AT. Instead we trade Spain ivory, gems, 98gpt, 11g and WM for Combustion and Espionage.
Ozzy is sitting on 1500g

IBT – Our cav units in the mountains of Babylonia get slaughtered. I wasn’t watching the IBT so I’m not sure what happened. I guess attacking the city would have been a better option.

Turn 9, 1335 AD
Babs have a destroyer in the water. Great.
Mass Production in 5 turns.
Celts can trade luxuries for AT but the cash would be handier. Beside, our peeps are plenty happy right now.
Ozzy is socking away 432gpt and now has 1932g banked. This is the guy that’s paying us 394gpt. Yikes.
If another lux is needed France has 6 furs and is very far behind in technology.
The Celts have relieved the English of the management of Brighton, Warwick and Newcastle (Good beer!). We might want to be leery of any more long term agreements w/ Lizzy.

IBT – The Zulu have joined w/ the Otters to kill England. I doubt the Zulu will ever land on English territory.

Turn 10, 1340 AD
Moving workers across the channel to throw down RR’s.
Consider all current build orders as placeholders.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Slide1.JPG

got it :D :)

rrau, a critique of how I left things would be appreciated. Actually, that's an open invitation for everyone.

I'm unhappy with how I participated in the Bab war. In a case like this do we even send troops or do we send in what we can looking to score a GL?

Also, your thoughts on the trades I made given we're going for a spaceship victory.

We're not really geared for war, especially when they are defending with Infantry. Until tanks infantry are almost unbeatable, unless you have a stack of artillery to soften them up first.

Personally I would probably sit back and watch the show. Maybe make a few destroyers of our own to patrol the waters. Eventually BAB will make peace with everyone, starting with the ones on the other continent who are not actively fighting the war. As long as we keep units out of BAB territory and we are not losing units we should have no problem with WW. They declared on us that gives us War Happiness.

I'd keep pluging away at the techs. If the dogpile is still active when we learn Fission, then we could win Diplo alot sooner than space. We want to make sure we don't waste time researching any dead-end techs. Trading for them is OK, but don't research them.

@jb, I'm not sure about that trade with Spain in turn 9, giving away $ instead of getting an extra incense to possible trade away. Otherwise the trading looked good. Also, I can't comment on the loss of the cavs, since I missed the recent situation by my skip. I'd agree with gator though, on sitting back. We've met our requirement and killed a few units (it their terr no less), so we're not pay the price for shirking. I'm amused that the dogpile spilled over onto England. Since she is the weakest on the continent, and the Babs are so big, it's not a suprise. I expect that the Ottos will the the only ones to do real damage to Babylon. That means that next time the Ottos will be even bigger, and a bigger pain for us. We need to get research up, and then start building mucho infantry.

I'd be happy to take the diplo win instead of space, since we can't make the date, but will go with the team.

@gator & jb - both nice jobs!

@rrau - awesome avatar!

I would have never tought about picking up an extra lux to turn around and sell. Interesting. A good idea if you have a market for it.

Space at any date or diplo is fine by me.

turn 0 (1340)

MM Antioch to keep from rioting - don't have enough $ to rush market.
MM Gordion to keep from rioting & switch slow build infantry to market
MM Susa.

Hmm - looks like WW is setting in. Will trade France medicine for furs, WM, 59g, and 1gpt

go back and MM again

Hey just realized something, you can change build orders from the F1 screen (I saw an italicised build order and clicked on it and it brought up a list of things to build) Probably if it was a snake, it would have bit me after all this time. :lol: Well that's my something new that I learned for the day :crazyeye:

@ jb1964 - The trades looked fairly good, but Ozzy's probably getting his excess gpt from Spain (and maybe a GA if he triggered one with his UU). If I'm going to trade an expensive tech away, I tend to trade it all during one turn (even if it's for peanuts) to keep the AI from getting the benefit from trading it around. For some reason, when AI's trade with each other, I've noticed they'll lower their research rate to pay gpt for a tech which they won't do for the human. If I don't want one AI to get a huge benefit, I think it's worth taking a lower value deal if they are anywhere near tech parity. (now I wouldn't be giving all techs away to zulu or iroquois who can't come up with gpt to pay for it - I'm not that benevolent to the AI's ;) )

Finally to the game again:

ibt

a Bab infantry moved into view near Tugelia.

turn 1 (1345)

keep stack by Tugelia intact. If the infantry survives Zulu's attack with mace, longbow, impi and musket might try to take out with elite next turn.

Had a warrior standing in the countryside by Medina, moved and upgraded him. Also loaded an AW to bring back to upgrade after dropping an infantry in Utica.

ibt :sleep:

turn 2 (1350)

bombard bab destroyer entering our territory
rush market in Antioch

ibt :sleep:

turn 3 (1355)

turned off governer options in capital

ibt

renew rop with spain
Learn Mass production, start Motorized transport

turn 4 (1360)

Ozzy has already sold MP around to everyone that has anything to trade except the Vikings :mad: . Trade vikings Mass Production for Incense, WM, 75g, and 49gpt
Switch research to Radio in 8 (100%) as AI's will probably go for Motorized transport and flight before radio (hopefully)
Rushed some courthouses

ibt

Missed most of the autoplay of the AI's on the ibt due to phone call (came right after I hit the return button) :blush:
Built Intelligence agency
Lots of WLTK days

turn 5 (1365)

ibt

Vikings request audience - want MPP - no thanks, but buy new WM for 4g

turn 6 (1370)

ibt

lost our wines and dyes :(

turn 7 (1375)

rush market in Gordium
Spain learned flight - can't afford it and keep up research. Also, can't recoup the money from Ozzy. Will wait and hope we're first to Radio.
Turn research to 90% (still radio in 5)
Buy dyes from spain for 918g (bargain vs increasing lux to 10%)

ibt

renew rop with ozzy
England and Zulu signed Peace Treaty
I think Zulu are close to losing Tugela

turn 8 (1380)

Spain and Ottos now know both Radio and Amphibious warfare. Otto's fairly broke. Spain very rich. I think we should be the first to radio and be able to trade it for other techs. (and maybe another lux from Spain)

Will go help zulu out by Tugela - softened up the infantry for them. Will keep remainder of stack in place.

ibt

Scandanavia wants to renew alliance vs Babs, no.
Celts wants to renew alliance, no
England wants to renew alliance, no
France wants to renew alliance, no
Iroquois want to renew alliance, no
Ottos want to renew alliance, no
Zulu wants to renew alliance, no
Tugela barely holds against Babs

turn 9 (1385)

Adyab (1 tile island pop 7) has granary to complete next turn, change to a market in 11
Check and all alliances vs Babs are expired.
Peace with Babs. We receive WM and 218g
Trade Babs Atomic Theory for 300g and 13gpt (clean them out)
No improvement in happiness with peace, so rush markets in some of the most unhappy cities.
Zulu RoP expires soon, call our troops home

ibt

built enough banks to start Wall Street :)

turn 10 (1390)

Change Mecca from infantry to Wall Street in 5 (or could go to Damascus and be done in 3 - currently building battleship due in 1, but I don't know if we'll need now that we aren't at war - next player decides)

Notes:

several workers fortified in Mecca - almost all territory railroaded - Maybe join to cities as needed to boost production.

WE ARE AT PEACE

Learn Radio in 2 (we're down flight and amphibious war - hopefully one of the AI's learns Motorized transport before we learn radio - I guess I could have stuck with it instead of switching to Radio, but didn't lose any beakers making the switch)

RoP with Zulu ends this ibt, have some troops almost to our territory.

Getting peace was good especially if we were getting WW. We don't need Amp Warfare or Adv Flight. We also may want to start thinking about a UN prebuild. We need the UN for either victory condition.


Roster
RowAndLive - up
DJMGator13 - on deck
Zarth - MIA - hasn't been online since early Aug. hope everything is OK
jb1964 -
rrau - just played

Sorry, I've been watching for new posting messages at the top, and haven't seen any, so I didn't check this last page until today. Got it.


EDIT: I've played 3, and should be able to get this finished tonight or tomorrow. Sorry for the delay.

1390 – 0
Horse interdicting Otto spices now forts on oil in N of Otto lands.
Horse interdicting Otto saltpeter now forts on oil in S of Otto lands.
Ottos will pay 358g for ivory.
Sell gems to France for WM, 23g + 5gpt.
Sell gems to Vikings for 12g + 30gpt.
Drop research to 80%, keeping radio in 2, but now +525gpt.
Keep Damascus on B-ship & Mecca on wall street

IBT: Vikings & Spain MA vs England. Vikings declare on English. 2 Spanish ironclads appear at Sidon, 3-4 Otto frigates go in against Babs at Shuruppak. Bab B-ship at Shuruppak. Ottos conquer Shuruppak & Nimrud.
Zulu offer ROP for 6g – no.
Pollution @ Medina.
Damascus Bship > Bship in 3. Kufah Colosseum > inf in 3. Balkh univ > court in 10 to prevent propaganda, otherwise bank & factory.

1395 – 1
8 tiles of pollution in Babylonian terr.
Bship toward Anjar. Get inf out of Zulu terr.
Sell Zulu our TM for WM + 7g. Sell TM to Iroquois for WM + 6g. Sell France our TM for WM + 15g. Sell TM to England for WM + 4g. Taking all of their money.
No one has radio yet.

IBT: Sell ROP to Vikings for 3g +1gpt, & they turn polite. Zulu ask for ROP & MA vs Babylon – we gift them out TM. Bab 2/4 Bship sinks Otto Frigate at Tyre.
Radio > Motor Transport.
Medina inf > civ defense in 3 (need to build settler & arty soon). Najran cathedral > inf in 3. Tyre market > inf in 30.

1400 – 2
Bship through Anjar. 1 inf each (back from Zulu) to Persepolis, Tarsus and Susa. Rod from Mansura to galleon, bound for Tyre.
Ottos will buy Radio for Amphib, Flight, WM, 875g + 83gpt. Spain gives silks, wines, WM, 53g +27gpt for Radio. (Cheap, and we’re happy & don’t need the luxes, but better to keep the loot from going to Osman). Vikings give WM, 46g +20gpt (also need flight) for radio. France gives WM, 19g +5gpt for communism. Sell TM to Babylon for WM + 18g. Sell WM to Iroquois for 5g.
Hurry inf in Taif for 120g. Upgrade cannon at Anjar to arty for 20g. Upgrade MI in Fez to guerilla for 50g. MI from Merw to Anjar & upgrades to guerilla for 50g. Rush court in Tabuk for a few gold.

IBT: 1 Celt ironclad dies & 1 goes red first promoting & then sinking Bab Bship.
Bab & France sign peace. WLTC day all over. Oxford falls to Vikings.
Baghdad comm. Dock > inf in 3. Aleppo duct > inf in 9. Taif inf > airport in 54. Tabuk court > inf in 13.

1405 – 3
Pike from Aleppo to Anjar & upgrade to inf for 60g, guerilla from Anjar to Aleppo. Nate (warrior) to Taif & upgrades to guerilla for 60g(?). Archer in Fez upgrades to guerilla for 70g. Galleon to Tyre, Rod E to fort, spear to Tyre & rests. Guerilla from Susa to Pasargadae & rides transport to Hama & forts.
Babylon will give WM, 65g +49gpt for electronics or Amphib, but not espionage (but close, must be researching).
Plant a spy in Babylon for 105g. Plant spy in Otto Empire for 96g. Would need 3254g to plant propaganda in Muscat. Can expose agent for 250g.
Build airfield & 2 radar towers near Bayt Ras.
<save>
Upgrade last remaining MI & cannon.
Move research to 100% for MT in 4, still +406gpt.
Turn all specialists except @ Susa into taxmen to get +415gpt.

IBT: England & Celts sign peace.
Damascus Bship > inf in 2. Kufah inf > inf in 3. Aden court > univ in 34. Sidon harbor > rax in 20.

1410 – 4
Spear in Tyre to Taif & upgrade to inf. Guerilla from Taif to Tyre. MM cities to keep Medina from starving.
Sell WM to: Babylon for WM +40g, Zulu for WM + 20g, Ottos for 6g, France for WM +21g +1gpt, Spain for 6g (Spain has MT but wants everything), Vikings for 10g, gift to Celts.

Ottos have MPP with Spain. Spain & Vikings have MA vs England.

Military Comparison:
Inf Cav Art Gue Other BB DD IC Frig Bomb
Us 42 17 05 14
Ottos 74 16 11 00 01 00 05 11 01
Babs 75 05 10 00 00 01 02 00 00

Babs & Ottos are both Communist.

IBT: Mecca Wall Street > airport in 3, Medina Civ Def > Bomber in 2, Najran inf > destroyer in 3, Antioch Library > inf in 13, Basra Comm Dock > inf in 3, Khurasan hospital > inf in 3, Fustat stock exch > inf in 3. The folks add statues to the palace porch.

1415 – 5
Move stuff.

IBT: Babs & Iros at peace.
Damascus inf > inf in 2, Baghdad inf > inf in 4, Arbela lib > market in 13, Yamama market > inf in 12.

1420 – 6
MM for MT in 1, with +778gpt.
Upgrade galleon to transport for 40g. Upgrade 2nd galleon to transport for 40g.

IBT: Zulu & Spain MA vs England & Zulu declare. France requests MPP & ROP – we gift our WM. Viking destroyer passes in through Suhar straits.
We enter the Modern Age! MT > Fission in 28.
Medina bomber > tank in 2, Kufah inf > tank in 3.

1425 - 7
Readjust research to 80% for Fission in 11 at +112gpt.
Ottos already have Fission, but won’t trade. Sell Babs electronics for WM + 197g + 37gpt. Sell electronics to Celts for WM +8g +22gpt. Sell electronics to England for WM +126g +108gpt. Sell Steam to Iros for WM +22g +3gpt. Sell Zulu ToG for WM +98g. Sell Ottos WM for WM +1g.
We successfully steal Fission from Ottos carefully for 3174g.
MM research to 90% for Computers in 10 @ +132gpt (vs 9T @ +8gpt).
Switch Mecca from airport in 1 to UN in 12.
Change Damascus from inf in 1 to tank in 1, Najran from Destroyer in 1 to tank in 1, Khurasan from inf in 1 to tank in 1, Basra from inf to tank in 1, Fustat to tank in 2, Baghdad to tank in 3.
Join 5 workers to Mecca to get UN in 10.
Gifts: medicine to Zulu, sanitation to Iroquois.

IBT: Celts wants embargo vs Babs – we gift him our WM.
Damascus tank > tank in 2, Najran tank > tank in 3, Basra tank > tank in 4, Khurasan tank > tank in 3, Mosul fcty > tank in 4.
Pollution at Basra.

1430 – 8
Tank from Khurasan to Fustat. Bomber to Mosul. Pollution cleaned up. Tanks to Fustat.

IBT: Ottos stacking up pollution.
Medina tank > tank in 2, Fustat tank > tank in 4.
Pollution at Basra.

1435 – 9
Gifts: industrialization to France, radio to Celts (now polite), radio to England (now polite), 10g to Vikings, 10g to Spain. (Can’t be sure if opponent will be Babs, preferably, or Ottos).
Pollution cleared. Tanks to Fustat. Bomber to Hama.

IBT: Ottos & Babs at peace. Celts & Babs at peace. Pollution near Mecca.
Damascus tank > Manhattan in 12 (in case Mecca gets bombed), Baghdad tank > tank in 4, Kufah tank > tank in 3, Aydab market > lib in 20.
Ottos begin UN in Istanbul. Lost our furs from France.

1440 – 10
France wants a tech for furs, which we can live without. Pollution cleared.
Investigate Istanbul for 186g to see:
UN due in 16. 25pop=9h/3c/7u/5clowns/1tax, 53spt, 59fpt, 40gpt, 32bpt, 1 tank, 1 arty, 9 inf (mostly on happiness duty), Note this is Communism, and if he switches to demo, it could be an issue for the race to UN.
Move interdicting horse to cover his 1 of 2 biggest shield tiles at Istanbul. The other is the mountain with the 2 workers. Pounce when possible to slow UN / Manhattan build.

The ottos are building tanks at same rate as us: 4 to 2 on 1st turn, 9 to 7 on 3rd turn, but we just changed Damascus. Give it thought. He has 77 inf to our 46, 11 arty to our 5, 7 cav to our 17.
Also keep a watch on points as UN approaches – it may still be Babs.

Gator is UP!

Hey guys I'm going to need to skip or swap. Got another hurricane bearing down on me and again the current forecast puts it right over me. This storm is huge. Charley was nothing compared to this. The wind footprint is larger than the whole state of Florida.

OK Gator,

I'll swap w/ you. I just took a look at Frances. Yikes! That thing is huge.

Ever consider moving to Ohio? If you're in the engineering field I'm sure I could help. And when the tornados come we can retreat to a basement.

Since Zarth is MIA I'm going to consider him an autoskip.

Stay safe.

Upstate NY is nice too. We have a corporate campus in Melbourne that has the hurricane hassles too. Depending on your field, there are engineering jobs here too, and the payrolls are higher to offset those wonderful state taxes...

Hopefully jb can wrap this one up. Unless we skip the vote and the world goes nuclear, I certainly don't expect to see this one again.

Hope you can finish this one, or I'll need a skip (maybe). I'm supposed to go on vacation to S.C. from the 4-11th. We'll have to see where the hurricane goes.

OK,
jb1964 is UP (& hopefully will finish)
R&L is On Deck

Thanks guys, I'll keep you updated on the storm. Right now they are telling us to expect about 18 hours of hurricane force winds. I'm still hoping something will make it turn, but this monster has tropical storm force winds 185 miles out and Florida only about 120 miles across.

I'm almost done boarding up so there is a small chance I might get to play some tomorow evening, I'll check in to see where we are at. But I"m still in the early stages of GOTM34.

Good Luck, Gator!

I would like some advice as to how to go about securing a diplomatic win.

In all my games my diplo experiences number 2. One, first, was a loss and the second one was more of a conquest that a diplo win.

So, with that, who's our likely competition for SG of the UN and how do I make him lower than whale poop in the eyes of the rest of the world?

I would get Dianthus's mapstat utility if you don't already have it. Check it the turn before building the UN and see who our rival will be (should be the largest civ other than us). Then dow on them and sign MA with other civs against them they will either vote for us or abstain as they will not vote for someone they are at war with.

Our opponent will definitely be either the Ottos or the Babs. The Babs are just now crawling out from under a long-lasting dogpile, but have the next most points. The Ottos have been relatively benevolent, but have not been giving away techs as much as we have. We've also been consistant, for example with France, over longer stretches of time.

My hope was to do 2 things:
1 - keep the Ottos from building before we do. This shouldn't be a problem, as we had a head start, have a backup build in a second city in case we lose our primary, and are trying to interdict the 2 bigh spt tiles at Istanbul.
2 - MM to ensure that we get our build done before the Ottos pass the Babs in total points. They are growing faster, but we may be able to do it. It wouldn't hurt to know if gifting them a tech would help or not. Input?

If these 2 things happen, then the Babs will be the opponent, and the recent dogpile coupled with continued gifting of techs & money should seal it for us.

Before we finish the UN Ozzy declares on us and RoP rapes us out of a city.

Here's a shot of the dogpile.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/otters.jpg

Pre-flight - Nothing.

Turn 1
Mecca was starving so I stole tiles for nearby cities, added citizens and wound up w/ 1fpt and UN in 6 turns.
Trade Electricity to France for furs.
Trade Fission to Isabella for a butt-load of gold.

IBT
Celts join Otters in war w/ England
Isabella is building the UN. Maybe the Fission trade wasn't too smart? :confused:

Turn 2
Mine irrigated tiles in size 12 cities.
Join some more workers to cities.
We trade WM’s w/ Isabella
Otters want MPP. We trade WM’s.

The Ottoman’s have declared war on us! :eek:
:ar15:

IBT
Holy crap, they RoP rape us and take Shiraz! :mad:
A salt is bombed down to roads.
Otter tank and cav move across the boarder

Turn 3
We take back Shiraz and kill off the tank and cavalry.
We kill a couple of ships off.
Now for the dog pile… :D

Babs get Motor; Zulu get gems, ivory and Nationalism, Vikes get flight and ivory; Spain gets ivory; France gets Scientific Method; Iroquois get coal; Celts get gems and amphibious war. The Otters are now at war with everyone and we're buds w/ all others.

IBT
Renew RoP w/ Spain.
Otters buy peace w/ England. We couldn’t sign them up because they were already at it w/ Ozzy.
Spain and Babylon kiss and make up.
We lost our supply of incense
Scandinavians kill off a frigate. :viking:

Turn 4
UN in 3.
Kill off Otter tanks in our territory.
Mine more irrigated tiles.
Sink two frigates

IBT:
Scandihoovians sink another frigate. :viking:
Babylon makes peace w/ the Zulu.
Zero Otter units into our territory. Bite off more than you can chew there Ozzy?!
We turn down the research to 40% and will get Computers in 1. We’ll go to zero next turn to spread around some golden lovin’

Turn 5
Other than lobbing a few shells into Muscat we’re sitting tight.
I would like to use our workers to put down some forts on the Otter boarder but we’re getting a pollution tile each turn around Mecca so that takes priority.
UN in 2.

IBT
The Vikes have killed off the English. :viking:
Bactra riots. Should have rushed the market LAST turn.
Otters manage to bomb out one of our two salts.

Turn 6
Unload workers from across the channel and build up some forts.
Populate forts w/ tanks.
UN in 1. OK who’s going to be our competition?
Well, not like we can do anything about it due to all of our alliances but the Vikes have the most territory. :viking: Since they’ve just killed off the English I doubt they’re in good w/ the rest of the world.

IBT
Hit return… Oops, I forgot to spread around the cash. Oh well.
UN is ours!

Turn 7
Ta Da!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/abu.jpg

VERY NICE finish jb!!! :thumbsup: :love:
I see that I was wrong on the voter choice - I thought that it was by points... From the mini, Brennus must have been close too. All in all, a very good finish. Not the space win that Zarth wanted, but still a good win. I can't read the date, but I think we missed that too. Oh well.

It was very nice teaming with all of you. Perhaps we can do it again? Perhaps I'll create one. Is anyone interested? :hmm:

Excellent finish. :goodjob: Glad the UN finished when it did - I'm not sure how long we could have held out against Ozzy's army.

@R&L: I'm interested, but leaving for vacation for a week, if you start one, slot me in towards the end please :D

Count me in for another game. This is a great crew and I'm learning more than just a little.

I'll go back and take a look at Ozzy's army but other that a few token attacks across our border he didn't threaten a thing. The dogpile certainly redirected forces over to his boarder w/ Babylon.

If he really wanted to do some damage RoP raping us he should have taken Mecca. It would have been easy.

The finish date was 1475 AD. We had a score on the order of 5500 and were remembered by our people as Magnificent.

If he really wanted to do some damage RoP raping us he should have taken Mecca. It would have been easy.

That is why the city and fortress on the neck were so important. He could have brought troops over using boats, but that would've allowed us to react.

I'm glad to see positive reponses, so I'll plan on it. Assuming Regent or Monarch level is OK. What about map style - pelago? I'd like to try a relatively unused civ. Also, PTW or C3C?

A thought about reputation...

We got 7 of the 9 votes without totally bribing all the other civs (which was an oversight on my part). I guess we conducted ourselves honorably.

However, if not at war w/ the Otters I would have happily thrown Ragnar to the bottom of a dogpile. :D

I never really gave rep much of a thought until I started palying SG's. I guess it pays to behave.

Ah, I forgot about the forted mountian pass. Yes, that was very strategic.

Regent or Monarch

c3c, standard, any civ, any time, any land

How about really going for the space race?

On the storm front, I'm waiting for this thing to get in gear again. It is current only moving at about 4mphs and hasn't hit the Gulf Stream yet where it should intensify before making landfall.
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Good finish. I'm definately up for another. Would still be interested in an early space attempt or something that pushed the tech pace at top speed. Still one of wek areas, but improving.

Our start in this game was not the greatest. All that desert and plains did not help and limited our growth and commerce. Based on that I'm happy with a pre 1500 diplo victory.

OK, I will sign you 3 up for a new space race game. Should be posted by Monday.