As with the thread below, this is a new 256 x 256 World Map to correct some of the glaring failures of the origional map. In particular,

- Japan is now in East Asia, as opposed to South East Asia, and is now four islands rather than two.
- Hawaii and Alaska have been greatly reduced in size.
- New Zealand exists, as does Taiwan.
- The Arabian pennisula is now well defined.
- Europe is far larger, with room for several major powers, and is also much better defined. Italy is no longer the flaccid penis of Europe, but a well defined boot. Ireland is more than three forest squares criptically misplaced due North of England. France and Spain don't suck quite so much. Greece has it's own presence and is not connected to Asia Minor. The Mediteranean now has islands; Sicily, Corsica, Crete, Sardina.
- The Milddle East is completely reworked.
-South Africa, which before was a bizarrely sharpened edge to the contininent, is now appropriately round.
- Mexico and Central American have been redone; the Carribean is now more or less accurate.
- North America is larger and more, well, interesting. The Rockies no longer extend to the Pacific Coast, so that western cities such as LA, Seattle and the Bay area are possible. The Northeast is both large enough and resource-filled enough to allow for several major cities. Florida is no longer quite as hideously ugly, I even sort of have a Okechobe eye in Florida.
- South East Asia, likewise, is better defined, and the archipeligo of Indonesia is much better off.
- North Africa (above the Sahara) is now habitable land
- all the starting locations are accurate. That is not to say that the right civilization will be in the right place, but the sixteen starting places reflect the sixteen civilizations (this was not possible in the earlier map in which England, Italy and Japan barely existed). No Civilizations will start in Australia, for example, or South America. This creates a contrast between areas that will logically have major civilizations and areas that probably will go through most of the game without being controlled, simply because nobody is near them. As a result, a colonial period seems logical, if the game plays out the way I suspect it will, particularly in Indonesia, South America, and Australia.
- Many of the strategic resources have been rearranged to encourage colonialism (for example, most of the spice and rubber is away from any major civilization, so that overseas colonies are a necessity). Almost all the oil outside the middle east has been removed, to force the importance of that area. Also, many goods suchs as wheat or cattle have been arranged not in an attempt to make the map historically accurate, but rather to encourage large cities in major city areas such as New York, London, Tokyo, Shanghai, etc.
-Large numbers of barbarian villages have been placed in areas where famous or particularly devastating invading hordes came from, such as Mongolia and Central Asia. All worthwhile potential colonial possessions (such as Indonesia) now have a barbarian village to represent the indigeounous population of those areas.

To do this, I had to do some somewhat geographically unrealistic things. The Atlantic and Pacific Oceans are both considerably smaller than they once were (although neither is big enough to cross without an oceanworthy vessel, except at the Bering Straight, which is all that matters gameplay-wise). Europe and North Africa has probably been elongated in order to allow civ games to be historically accurate (if not literally geographically accurate). Furthermore, Central Asia has been sort of squashed between the dramatically rebuilt continents of Europe and Asia.

Likewise, because of other elements of gameplay or just design flaws, there are a few other mistakes I know of. Japan is positioned correctly relative to Korea, but is now incorrect relative to the United States -- it's too far North, and the prospect of moving all of Eurasia south was just too much to bother with that mistake. Australia is now directly South of Papua New Guinea, as opposed to Southeast, and New Zealand is a tad confusing -- it's on the other side of the map from Australia. The Iriquois starting space is farther west than it should be, but their real starting space is too close to Washington DC in my mind.

But also, a lot of the issues beyond coastline, for example, where jungles, forests and grasslands should be on the map I was quite unsure of, especially in India, sub-Saharan Africa, East Asia, and Australia. Still, I hope you'll find this to be what I've designed it to be: the map most conducive to a historically accurate game of Civilization.

I'm really hoping to get some feedback from others on this map, to see how well it plays and how accurate these things are. So send me a line to give me your thoughts to satyanotwar@aol.com. Thanks a lot, and enjoy the map.

-Satya

oops, forgot to post the file :-) here it is.

Great work! :goodjob: Well done!

Idea: If it isn't easy to make the civs selectably start in their correct location, could sixteen scenarios be posted (one for each civ) that starts each civ in their correct location (as well as the others)?

For example, I just started a game on the new Satya map as England :king: and started in England (1 in 16 chance, eh?).

Kindest regards,

Oogie

:crazyeyes :)

yes it is a little annoying that Americans never start in america, I sure wish firaxis would of included a civ-spicific start instead of a player start, but dont get me going on what firaxis "should" of included

Oh absolutely well done! SO much better than the default! Now incase I start out on the Japanese islands, I won't be limited to 2 cities, which is probably why the Japanese only really started to modernize around the 1800's. But yeah! It's just excellent! Great work! :D

VERY cool map! Thanks!
:egypt: :egypt: :egypt:

I haven't got my copy of Civ 3 yet, but reading the list of 'fixes', I am disgusted that the original map didn't even include new zealand or taiwan, but still had Hawaii, and had it larger than it actually is. The need for other changes make it sound like the original drawing was based on a finger painting of someone who didn't have an atlas to work off, although had "seen" a map of the world. Once. A few years ago.

I mean, we've all heard the stories of the US college graduates who can't locate the US on a world map, but this was a person who was given the specific task of replicating the world map for goodness sake!

You made a great work!
Though I think it could be done much more geographic accurate:
- Europe's longest river, Volga is missing
- Europe's second river, Danube is also missing
- no need so much river in France
- Rheine is come from Alpes
- Caspian See is greater than Black see
- the Caucasus Mountains (between them) are Mountains (over 4000 m)
- Turkey is mainly mountains and hills
- Kongo, Zambezi are missing
- Atacama, the driest desert (in Chile) is missing
- Mekong is missing
- in Indonesia there are high Mountains, like Krakaoa volcano

If you need help, I will edit them and send you the modified map.

mikellos

Dear friend,

Your map os simply the best until the moment.
But If I may suggest a few changes:
- Brazil has an arid region in it´s northeast section called "Sertão"
- Venzuela is rich on oil
- Swedish nation is rich on iron (remember that Germany was dependent on their iron during WWII)
- Spain is rich on metals (remember the swords of Toledo).

That all for the moment. I´ll try to help you a little bit more as soon as possible.

keep doing an excellent job!!!!


"Panzer rollen Afrika vor!"
:goodjob:

Post it in the tiny size, please!

I personally cannot (still) view the map, cause I (still :mad: ) don't have civ 3.

I was wondering, though, if the Portuguese islands in the atlantic ocean, Açores (Azores) and Madeira are there?

One cannot ignore the extremely strategic value of the Azores islands both in naval and air force. US has a air base there and uses it fuel their planes en route to europe and asia.


Trancas

Originally posted by Magellan
Post it in the tiny size, please!

:egypt: You've done a great job to improve the original world map.

There's one more bug---Taiwan should be mountainous...

Satyajedi u have ****ed up scandinavia, and england is far smaller than finland or sweden fs. And i think sweden doesnt have so much mountains and for finland we dont live in tundra. fix it thx. /:

Wow, pretty picky, aren't we?

I was going to ask about the Fji Islands, Tonga, Solomon Islands and the other 10,000+ Islands of the Pacific, but I suppose that would take forever. :crazyeyes

Great Job!

Just one thing. Where is Cyprus? You have included Crete, but not Cyprus which is bigger.

Hi, thanks a lot, I kind of use it all the time.

Nevertheless :

- Cyprus (eastern Meditteranean)
- Oil in Algerian Sahara, some in Lybia
- Europe was pretty much a large forest even uder the Roman empire
-Incense in Western Arabia (the road to incense of the queen of Saba started from there)
- Gems in the Sinai + the Sinai
- Gold in Egypt Eastern desert and in Nubia (the only African civilization was the kingdom of Sudan (stretching all south of the Sahara based on gold)
- Spices (pepper) in Sichuan (part of Eastern CHina enclosed in the mountains) and a LOT of Indonesia
- France has iron on the East and Coal in the North
- Low Mountains between France and Germany (hills would do) : Schwarzwald and Vosges
- Aluminium in France (between Rhone and Provence)
- if elephant really is ivory, I would not mind seeing some in Scandinavia (they were a good source of ivory from the sea-lions) and Groenland (which is not so green anymore)
- barbarians in Arabia (2 or 3) and in the Lybian desert as well as 1 in Scandinavia. One in Tibet (they were not always so peaceful), in Burma (same ethnic group), two in Korea and Vietnam (for there is nobody there)
- Australian desert basically is aluminium.
- Oil in Norway and Scotland (replacing the one in the North sea)
- Oil in the Caucase (between Black Sea and Caspienne) which is a high mountain area (that protected Armenia).
- Wine all around the Medditerrenean (before Islam, wine was the basic with olive and wheat).
- furs along Russian rivers and American Great Lakes
- coal in Northern Spain, iron in South-East

That is all for now. Sorry if it is long but I think it is better you finish it. Of course some infos might get into conflicts with others but this is just information.

Regards and thanks again.

Sorry, me again but I forgot to copy a few things

The Klahari desert is closer to the Atlantic, Zimbabwe is quite fertile
- one jungle in Mozambique (Indian ocean) and some forests
- Madagascar is not just jungle
- oil in Nigeria, Gabon
- Gold in Nigeria
- Oil in Venezuela
- North Africa (Algeria) is very fertile, even if limited in size, south you have atlas mountains then Sahara (oil and gas)
- fish ressources in Mauritania (a lot), Norway, off Newfoundland and Quebec, one between Sicily and Italy (tuna) otherwise not so many in the Med, some in the Caspienne (caviar), whales of Japan (north), Alaska, Australia (West coast).

I have got a problem with Horses for they come from central Asia but unlike most ressources they can be bred anywhere with lands

I have downloaded this map. Not yet tried it though. However, there´s lots of people complaining about rivers, recources and other stuff.
Shame on them!
Come on, make your own maps if your not happy!
I must say when I first looked at it I found out that Sweden and Finland didn´t barley exist. So instead of coming here and cry like a baby, I made my own change. Easy peasy, japanese...
So I suggest if all you critics want to leave suggestions, say so. Don´t just complain.
Otherwise, change the map yourself!

So here are a suggestion for next worldmap.
Sweden is bigger than Norway and do not only consist of mountains. Especially not in the south and southeast.
The bay south of Finland is much narrower, wich gives the outlook of Finland better realism.
Norway can be made smaller. The norweigens don´t live out in the sea...

But since I made the changes on my own, it´s not a neccesaty, just a thought for you.

Passon mentioned:

"I have downloaded this map. Not yet tried it though. However, there´s lots of people complaining about rivers, recources and other stuff.
Shame on them! ..."

I think bugs have been reported only to notify players interested
in a more precise world map not to complain about how muh not yet completed.I have already modified it myslef,but attaching little modified versios would be wasting server hardware space.

Satyajedi has done very well, and has helped us a lot.
I just don't understand why passon is so angry.If you don't care about trivial bugs,it's ok just to leave them there.

Sorry that this not an issue about Civ.:lol:

Hey, I have modified his map a little (great work by the way)

- I moved the Urals to the right place
- I added Donau and the Volga
- I placed oil by the Volga river (There was a reason why Hitler wanted to take Stalingrad)
- I made the Caspian sea larger
- I added the Aral lake
- I added oil in Norway, Jutland (part of Denmark), Libya and Venuzuela
- I removed all the mountains in southern Sweden and placed some on the Northern coast of Norway instead
- I made Sweden a bit larger
- I placed iron in Sweden and Norway
- I modified Finland, it is no longer tundra, and it looks more real.
- I modified the Kola peninsula
- I added Novaja Semilja (Islands North of the Ural mountains)
- I placed forest in most of Western Europe
- I added Cyprus
- Greenland is no longer green. I filled it with tundra and also filled the sea above Greenland with tundra because it is not possible to sail north of Greenland. The Southern tip of Greenland is plains and grass. And there no longer is any trees on Greenland :)
- Unfortunately there wasn't space enough to add Iceland :(

I hope you can use it

Great Job with the modifications unSounder!

I used a sattelite image of Europe as a reference for accuracy and added a few mods. Here they are (They concern mostly southern europe and northern africa):

- Cyprus: Changed the size and shape. Added hill and Goodyhut.
- Greece: Changed the shape. Added mount Olympus (Where would the Gods live?) and hills in Northern Greece.
- Turkey: Changed grasslands to plains. There is a small connecting land between Greece and Turkey now (The Black Sea used to be a lake in 4000BC).
- Italy: Snow covered mountains instead of mountains in North Italy (Alpes).
- Scotland: Added more hills.
- Sardinia and Corsica: Changed shape, plains instead of grassland.
- Sicilly: Changed shape, added hills.
- Nile river: The delta of the Nile has been changed to grassland and plains were added along the river instead of desert.
- North Africa: Changed portions of it from grassland to plains.
- Spain: plains instead of grassland.
- Portugal: Changed the shape slightly.


It's amazing how much more there is to be done!

satyajedi - great map! :goodjob:

Almost every game I've started has had a Barbarian village very close. I usually lose my worker or get the city ransacked. Once it even started me next to the Barb village and my settler was killed for the quickest possible loss.

Questions -

Does the PC pick starting locations, or can you indicate them on a map?

What is the Barbarian activity set at on the map?

Can we modify the rules to clear out Barbs within 5 spaces of starting positions (your own civ is settling down after beating up other nomads)?

I think it's awesome people are corraborating on getting an accurate world map. I'm going to have a go at some adjustments to a few places as well, and if it's worth it I'll upload it here.

Good work guys!

:D

crayonx

Is it possible somehow to start with americans in america? I have tried it many times without any luck. Help me :cry: :cry: :cry:

This is a good idea that modifing this map little by little.
Since we all hail from different backgrounds make modiciaftion to your place of expertise and post the map and the next person modifies that and ...
Than we will have the ultimate map

For my part I have forseted nothen Iran and have deserted some parts of afghanistan (Herat and southern afghanistan). I also have took some oil off of Saudi Arabia and give some to Iraq and Iran.
The distance from Caspian Sea and the Persian Gult just looks too wrong. It is infixable unless someone redesigns the whole region.
Keep making improvements

great map, I use it, but a few suggestions.

- It isnt tundra in Norway... at least NOT in the southern parts. But tundra is anyway a bit drastic even in the northern parts of Scandinavia.
- Iceland should be larger.
- make an island up in the north (Svalbard) with coal. + a few fish around...
- In the gulf I think there should be just a little grassland, as any civ that starts there in my game always struggles a bit.
- Since tundra is liveable, I think most of Greenland should have montains instead, just so it doesnt pop up realy big cities there..
- should be even more montains/hills in Norway.
- Should be alot of rivers in Finland because of their 1000s of lakes.
- should be more pine forests than ordinary forests in scandinavia.
- more fish on the westcoast of norway.
- Australia is a bit to "green" should have more desert.
- If Ireland is connected to England so should Denmark be to Sweden, as you could practily swim across...
- Is it realy tundra in northern South America?
- Isn't there oil in the south of Texas?

anyways a good map, I use it with a couple of changes.

Since you are the "expert" on Northen Europe, why don't you make the changes and post the new map called world map 1.3

Since I come from Sweden I see myself as an expert on the subject of Scandinavia and therefore I've improved the parts that Robinroch thought wasn't good enough. Here is what I changed:

- I took away some of the tundra in Scandinavia.
- I've enlarged Iceland.
- I've changed the forests in "The North" to pine forests.
- On the coast of Norway is it now a lot of fish.
- I've created Svalbard north of Norway.
- There is now a lot of mountains in Greenland.
- Scandinavia has more hills.
- Finland has some rivers. ( And about that: "1000s of lakes" thing; Sweden has more...)
:p :p :p

Hey man, great work!

Maybe you can fix Holland, though, it's barely recognizable...
(I'm dutch I admit it... But hey, can't blame me, right?)

JaySar

On request, I've fixed parts of Europe (+Holland) and put more mountains in Scandinavia.

Enjoy!

I'm thinking of changing this wonderful map a little. Here's some suggestions:

- Move New Zeeland a little more south and also make it smaller.
- Make some islands at Australia; New Hebrides, Fidji etc.
- Improve the Australian landscape.

Please post more suggestions of improvements and I'll try to fix the map later today...

Here's some more changes to the map we all love and uses...:D

- I've moved New Zealand some southwest, made it smaller and put some djungle on it.
- There now exists small islands northeast of Australia and New Guinea. (Can't name them all.)
- Some of Australias djungle is changed to forest.
- I've added the Simpson Desert (Australia).
- The hills in Eastern Australia have been put together.

Enjoy!

by the way, norway has aluminium

The Simpson desert!!!! :eek: Doh!!!!


I think the flanders forrest is next to the Simpson desert!! (with a much nicer civilization in it of course)
:crazyeyes

Well sorry to say that, but the last tip I can give to let you have a map that look better is to download Marla's map.

On Satya's map, Japan can land on California by trireme, to be clear, there's no pacific ocean, Africa is reduced to let more space for Europe which gives a look awful to that continent, there's too many land in general for only few seas, and there's generally a really poor accuracy in terrain's distribution.

If you want an enormous map with lot's of lands and few seas, download Satya's map. But if you want a map of the earth, download Marla's one.

Frozen Lava: Map reviewer.

You have a point Frozen_Lava, but what you are saying is not entirely true.

The cost of having a more accurate Pacific Ocean comes at the expense of land detail. For example, the Meditterenean looks TERRIBLE on Marla's map, while it is quite accurate on Satya's, especially after the mods.

Also the fact that you can reach America from Asia on a trireme is not entirely bad. This is probably one of the ways people arrived on the American continent and the Pacific islands (like Hawaii).

So it all comes down to preference. Personally, I prefer a more accurate land than an accurate sea.

I must say I agree with nantonio, it's way better to have an accurate land mass, the other map mentioned is rather poor I think, but if someone like it...

But it's alway room for improvements. But all in all, it's a very good map. Using the save game editor all civs can start in their correct places too... Get's a bit crowded in Europe though.

The resource allocation on this map is my main fault with it...

CONSIDER: that each strategic resource can forfill and ENTIRE EMPIRE...

Thus tiny little deposits of aluminium, saltpeter shouldn't be considered...e.g the aluminium in the USA...in 1980 A.D (real life) 93 % of American aluminium came from the rest of the world.

Aluminium is MAINLY obtained from australia, Brazil, Jamaica, Guinea...

Canada should have iron in it -Sudbury mine (I think, one of the largest iron mines in the world)

Afghanistan is a joke...as is Eastern Iran.

Japan is virtually fully dependant on all major resources from abroad...


I don't have the time just now to fully research the resources (but when I get back from geologising in Cyprus I will have) I will shake up the resources...hopefully people will get there before me...

Hi Diser, I noticed your changes to New Zealand which I thought were pretty good, just one of your comments (I havn't had a change to run the map yet) you said you placed some jungle. Theres no jungle in New Zealand as it is a temperate enviroment. only forests, mountains, lakes and plains. I can have a go at it if you like :)

Keep up the good work everyone :D

One thing that may want to be fixed is the amount of jungle south of what in our world is the "Democratic Republic of Congo". It seems to reach down too much of Africa.
Other than that the map is great!

Heil Caesar! :king:

I think I read somewhere the other day that Sweden produces 1/6 of all Uranium in the world...

Great map, but nevertheless, just a couple of points: (heard that before? :P )

[list=1]
When I look at the map, I find that, it's great :-)
Oh and.. may I ask, where did you get your inspiration? :P
[/list=1]

Polly-gees, just wanted to add a light hearted touch of appreciation. Once again, great map! ;)

Ash

Not to be a nitpicker, but I've got this really old Atlas up at my cabin, and it fascinates me. I read it on rainy days when walks or skiing is impossible. But I digress...

What's really cool is that in the late 18- and early 1900's Europe was full of stuff like oil, gas, coal, iron, (all the stuff you need for two world wars in fact). The world is a very dynamic place. It changes all the time. As we find new ways of utilizing a resource, they pop up in new places. At the same time we use up existing ones.

Therefore it is impossible to make an entirely correct world map, resource-wise. Accessability depends on the period you feel like portraying. So really all the nitpicking should be about landmass and nothing else.

That's it for now. I'm going to check out the latest version of the map and the do some nitpicking of my own.

Thnx for starting this satya and keep up the good work everyone...

Resource-wise you can at least make a best approximation -that is what I'm trying to do, but it is very tricky -a fact due to the simplicity of the civ3 model.

Absolutely no offense meant...
And by no means am I doubting your expertise! I mean from what I gather you're a geologist, and I'm not even out of high school (or the equivalent version up here in the frozen wastes of Ultima Thule) yet!

I was just pointing out a fact of some small historical interest (and bragging about my really old atlas and my cabin...) :D

BTW: I hear they've found diamonds up in Finnmark (the northernmost county of me 'omeland). It's to little for me to make a map of my own and post it, but if anyone feels like making the perfect resource map, they could stick some gems in the north of Scandinavia.

BTW2: I agree about the simplicity of the model. It's good, but not "purfick". The horses kinda get on my goat. I mean, horses are flock animals, right? They move around after food, right? Doesn't it seem a little odd that they stand around in the same rather small spot for several thousand years?:viking:

I was wondering exactly what size 256x256 is? Huge?

256 x 256 World Map will be too large soon.
If you play it with 16 races you'll reach soon at 1900 AC / 1930 AC a sav file size of more than 8043 KB, and then Civ3 crashes.

The huge format seems to be the limit for such long games.

Awesome!!It's a good world map..Few details I see left out. I have only on thing against it... It's not a map that's good at producing alot of tech)Which isn't really your faught).

Originally posted by Caesar Sam
I was wondering exactly what size 256x256 is? Huge?

Original huge size is 180 x 180
256 x 256 the maximum possible size is I believe.
But on my system Civ3 crashes when the size of the sav file gets over 8043 KB, and this happens with this 256x256 map size and 16 factions around 1900 AC.

good, both of you, but no resoures or lux?

good, both of you, but no resoures or lux?