The Whip and Saddle

This will be a C3C game specializing in horse units. The idea of this game is to build horse units almost exclusively, putting the world under our hoof, so to speak. For the second time, I ride on gozpel’s coattails ;)

Version: C3C 1.22f <- preferred but up for discussion
Landmass: Archipelago between 70%
Difficulty: Demigod
World Size: Large
Temperature: Random
Climate: Random
Age: Random
Barbs: Random
Opponents: Random
AI Disposition: Aggressive

The special rules for this game are as follows:
1. cannot break peace treaties or play blatantly unfair with the AI in trades/treaties
2. before horses are discovered, the only military units allowed are warriors, archers, defensive units (spears or pikes) and naval units
3. after horses are discovered, total # of defender units = total # of cities (defender unit = spear, pike, musket, rifle, infantry, or mechanical infantry).
4. only bombard units allowed are none atm, maybe arty+ (ie, arty, radar arty, etc) if the AI lives to RP.
5. Any navel unit is allowed (offensive or transport)
6. Fighter airplanes are allowed but no bombers. Hopefully, this will be wrapped up before replaceable parts but you never know.

Roster:
scoutsout
grahamiam
Knappagh1
barbslinger
spikeit
gozpel

We are looking regent/monarch level players to join. You must be comfortable at regent and do ok in Monarch. If you are better than that, please, accept our apologies, but go somewhere else :p

The requirement of these players is that you are a battler, you never give up, and will play his/her 10 turns completely. Lose 5 cities on your first turn, tough, you stick it out and play your full 10. Stop, cry, even post questions on what to do, but you may not relinquish your turns. Exceptions will come later when the turns are long and we need to drop down to 5T per player.

This is NOT a training game, though the listed players are friendly and I suspect you will learn a lot. The biggest things you will learn are that there is probably a way to save every situation and that speed kills.

20 turns starts, 10 thereafter, though if you’re feeling like the PRNG gods are with you or you want to play thru something to setup the next player and you want to take a few more, go ahead.

24hrs got it, 72 hrs play. If you need more time, ask and you will get it :) Just keep the team informed.

Discussions can start and once we finalize the rules & civ we are playing, I will generate a start location.

Not a sign-up (obviously you don't want me anyway...), but a suggestion:


Hittites.

One of the least-played Civs (I can remember one single SG with them, ending in a desaster...), with a so-so UU that fits extremely well to your theme (by being a good defender), and a useful trait for large empires...
Just make sure <ou don't have too many mountains/swamps/ jungles.

Just a quick check to subscribe to the thread.

Edit: I can play any "odd numbered" version at this point. (I can't play Civ2, and none of us can play Civ4 yet... but I can play anything in betweeen...:D )

Hey Grahamiam, Could i sign up please?

Im a regent player just recently moved to Monarch for the SGOTM. Just recently got my first domination victory on monarch and heading for another shortly. Although, demigod sounds a bit daunting!!!!!

I have being meaning to upgrade to 1.22f for sometime but got back to playing Vanilla recently, so 1.22 should be fine with me.

We are looking for 2 regent/monarch level players to join. You must be comfortable at regent and do ok in Monarch. If you are better than that, please, accept our apologies, but go somewhere else.

:( That really would have been a nice setup :(

ok, thanks doc. actually, some of us are playing cotm as the hittites so we may want something else.

actually, i really like chinese riders and the arab UU.

@scout -> do you mean you prefer 1.15b?duh, read your sig, so either are fine. we'll have to let the other players weigh in though it looks like 1.22f will be ok

@Knappagh1 -> your in. pack a barf bag ;)

@grs -> sorry, maybe next time :)

Kewl idea. I'll be lurking this one to see if "speed kills".

I used to play a lot of star fleet battles and the standing motto was "speed is life"

good luck

Kewl idea. I'll be lurking this one to see if "speed kills".
good luck
jb, i've seen in other threads (actually, yours to be exact) that you were at monarchy level. you can do more than lurk if you desire. however, if your skills are up to emporer now, you'll have to sit :p

I haven't set up a separate 1.22 as yet either. I have plenty of HD space though so it shouldn't be a problem.
The defender question to me is not so hard. I've read many top level GOTM games where they don't have but token defense except in the core. Any cities that only make a shield or two may very well be taken by the AI. Speed kills and it will quickly be taken back.
I think the key will be the availability of a settler factory, astute trading to get to our UU, and being able to wage an early war to gather more land. I would not build a single library and markets only in larger cities. Pack the cities in for unit support value. 3 tiles apart can get more cities in. We only need to generate 30shields for every horse so we don't need huge cities. Getting the GL is a considereration so that we will have plenty of upgrade cash when we get to Chivalry. BTW, I prefer China over Arabia. This game should be in hand after our 40-50 Riders hit the trail and done after being first to MT.
EDIT: I favor Pangaea so we don't have to wait around for navigation. Again, getting a settler factory will be very important so lets get a good start.

alright barbslinger, thanks for checking in. good points on expansion, which is really the key. with c3c's limited resourses, it will be important to have as much land as possible to get those horses.

i think your right on about defenders. not saying that my gotm's are top level, but i'm running a ratio around 5-10:1 lately in horse units vs flatfoots and getting dominations before 1000ad. can't remember having anyone in the core during gotm31. only time i build the slow units is during the mighty warrior -> swordsman upgrade or a spear/warrior to finish quelling resistors while the rest of the troops gobble up more land. this tactic(sword upgrade), of course, will be outlawed here.

atm, gozpel preferred archipelgo since there are so many pangea/continents maps floating around and i'm going to have to agree with that. it'll make landings a little harder since we won't have the defenders and will play against our strengths. plus, we got the professor of amphibious landings with us ;) in pangea, all you have to do is keep the line in front of you and push.

OK, I'll bite. Sign me up G-man.

OK, I'll bite. Sign me up G-man.

this is gonna make me swallow real hard and :cry: . but we were looking for regent/monarch players. otherwise we're gonna run over the AI as fast as barbslinger hopes. see below from the opening post:

We are looking for 1 regent/monarch level players to join. You must be comfortable at regent and do ok in Monarch. If you are better than that, please, accept our apologies, but go somewhere else

sorry bugs, your one of my favorite people to play with but your just too darn good. and i'd feel bad accepting you having already turned down grs. sorry buddy, but maybe next time.

no hard feelings, right? :) if you want to join a 1.x gram team, i'll gladly have you aboard over there. 1 player is having computer problems in the 1.22f team.

:blush: I guess I should have read the whole thread. No hard feelings. OK, sign me up for one of the 1.x teams. PM me which one.

If it is a demigod game why are you looking for regent players? :confused: Perhaps I should withdrawl too, I haven't seen regent or Monarch in months.

barbslinger, he is looking for only ONE regent/monarch player.

I have a game in mind which I'd like some people to sign up before I start: Chinese Riders (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=1868506&postcount=133). The full detail hasn't been finalized yet. Let me know if anyone is interestd. If enough people show interest I'll start it now. ;)

@barbslinger -> like microbe said, gozpel and i are looking for a mix of players, not just 6 highly skilled players in a race to overrun the AI. we already did that in GOZ3. and no, you can't leave ;) i wanna see your warmongering skills in person :)

Will do.

Keys to play. Lot's of horses and MM cities for 5/6/10 spt and 8 if we have too. Always check the F4 for trades, every turn. Demigod and above is unforgiving if you miss a trade window. Opening tech research I would suggest pottery, for factory, of course and trade for alphabet to get to philo, if possible, but lit for sure. I'm still undecided about the GL. I'd much rather acquire it. Since island map though it lessens the impact of the GL due to lack of contacts. MM will be the tech to get too with an early prebuild for GLight.

Glib is not necessary if we get all the cities down you are suggesting. plus, if we're down a tech, we do pointy stick research.

GLight, otoh, is definitely something to think about.

Checking in just to see grahamiam keeping barbslinger on a short leash :lol:

Just to say, slinger we need a prominent warmonger since both I and grahamiam are a little more towards the building sector :) Of course we can wage a war, but we all know your nice setups, so be quiet and plan for the future.

China is fine, too bad we can't get a decent civ with seafaring trait. That could help.

ok, we need one more monarch player. but first, let's discuss our settings and rules. see items 3 and 4 on the list.

so far there are 3 votes for china so that's enough for a majority atm.

do i generate 5 starts and we pick or do we let scout generate a random one?

I vote for picking 5 starts, include minimap. I like the 1 defender per city if it is: we have 20 cities we are allowed 20 defenders, to be placed where we like them. MP, guard resources, frontline or beachhead detail, etc. If we lose a town we must disband a defender. Never more defenders than cities.
On bombard I don't see the need for any unless it gets to a point where the AI is going to give us a real fight which would be way down the line. Perhaps arty and above only. I hope we never have to build a single one. Over before cavalry, I declare, Yee-haw!

ok, will generate 5 starts now. best 5 out of the 1st 15. v1.22f so go copy your 1.15b folders in a safe place and upgrade :) we can flesh out the rest as we go. imho, arty+ sounds fine as you really don't need any till your up against infantry.

Ok, here we go. An interesting set of starts thanks to Moonsinger's Mapfinder. I requested a river and a food bonus and here is what I get :)

1 of 5

2 of 5 - Rich Girl

3 of 5 - This was just too interesting to pass up. too bad the tobacco isn't wine :)

4 of 5 - Food-O-Rama. Note the wheat hidden in the fog 2T SE. That makes 3 FP wheats :crazyeye:

5 of 5 - Sanity

I love 4-5. It can be an easy settler factory with the hills mined. Moving 1 S may expose some grass. It will be a monster someday. I quick settler for military and then a granary and the factory should be ready to go. Also the location looks for pushing a conquest. Oops, forgot this was islands.

1 and 2 have two much plains. 3 has too many mountains to road for our horses and 5 is too centered in the middle.

ok, 1 vote for 4 of 5. looks good but could be dangerous. all those FP that low in the map probably mean arid and warm. definitely interesting. the mining of each hill will take 8T with 1 worker so another early helper would be good for that map.

ok, 1 vote for 4 of 5 and i think i'll throw mine that way to make it 2. of course, there's probably 100 tiles of desert around as well :lol:

need others to vote :)

also, we need 1 more player at monarch level to join.

i would vote for 4 or 5. Im not the best at mm and have yet to master the settler factory so im not going to comment on what i would/wouldnt do :p.

Athough, one advantage of 4 would be the presummed coast line for wonders and exploration.

I like #1 (believe it or not) and #5. Though #5 looks like it has jungle to the SW, being in the middle of the map has one tactical advantage: Whenever you're surrounded, you can 'attack in any direction'!

i take first votes only :)
therefore, it goes as follows:
start #1: 1 vote
start #4: 3 votes

looks like we have a majority atm. however, i'll cool my heels for a little while since scout probably can't start till after work. this'll give gozpel and, if we get one, the new guy to deadlock it :)

Grahamiam,

Not a sign-up, as you know (no C3C), but a question on rule #3. What about for supressing resistors? I'll enjoy lurking.

I was going to say 5, but that won't help anyways, so let's play 4.

And a thing about units, no bombers in this game, they are way too powerful. Arties should be as defensive units, max one per city?

Alright. I'll bite. This looks like a fun game in which I can learn a lot.

I am quite comfortable on Monarch, but haven't had the time to play a game any level beyond yet, so I think I fit the criteria. I have yet to install 1.22 though, so I guess I'll have to figure out how to set this up in dual mode with 1.15. If you'll have me, that is.

To be honest though, I will likely need extensions beyond the 72 hour limits more than once as I have a 7 month old at home who can be quite demanding. If this is a problem, count me out.

Anyhow, if you'll have me, I like start #5. From an inexperience standpoint, I shiver at the thought of trying to manage the happiness at spot #4. But then again, I'm in for a good cry. ;)

ok spikeit, your in. roster closed. check your underware. i have a 9 month old so i share your pain. just keep us informed. when the turns get long, maybe you will have to drop to 5 before the rest of us. no worries.

@gozpel -> ok, no bombers for now but i don't know about going after forified infantry without some sort of offensive bombardment capability. if we don't use at least artys, then this is going to degenerate into a massive pillaging exercise in an effort to drop the population so we don't have a 6 attacking a 25 or 17 rated defender (pop 12+ gets 100% defense bonus + 25% bonus for fortified +25% bonus due to the crappy prng on my computer).
well, i guess this will make things all the more desperate. i just don't want it to feel like a chore.

i'll update the roster and post the save now.

edit: we go with 4 as we have 4 willing to take it :)

Grahamiam,

Not a sign-up, as you know (no C3C), but a question on rule #3. What about for supressing resistors? I'll enjoy lurking.
wounded units and tax starving, i imagine. or, we just let them sit and stew if they are very far away and pose too high of a flip risk. and go get c3c already :p

Roster:
scoutsout <-UP
grahamiam <- on deck
Knappagh1
barbslinger
spikeit
gozpel

1st things 1st, go get pottery, a couple of warriors for scouting, maybe a settler and a worker, and start a granery. the order of these things is for you to decide. lots to do scout, lots to do, so don't expect to get them all done. remember, as barbslinger pointed out, this is demigod so you gotta wear out that F4 button once you meet someone.
good luck :thumbsup:

I dunno what I did to deserve the honor of starting us off...but this is a "got it".

I phrased this like a dimwit: "Arties should be as defensive units, max one per city?"

I meant number of units, so we can't build a stack of 200 :) Of course we would need them as offensive units! But then, they would proabaly slow us down anyways.

I phrased this like a dimwit: "Arties should be as defensive units, max one per city?"

I meant number of units, so we can't build a stack of 200 :) Of course we would need them as offensive units! But then, they would proabaly slow us down anyways.
ok, i get it now. that sounds fine. however, by the way barbslinger is describing our empire, 200 arty's may be a little short of the limit :lol:

@scout -> it's only an honor if you do well. otherwise, it's a scourge :D

Turn 1 (4000) - Worker NW, no compelling reason to move, found Beijing
I need to get somebody to teach me how to fog-gaze, because there actually IS a FP wheat SE of the city...
Set queue to pottery
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IBT :sleep:
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Turn 2 (3950) worker irrigates
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IBT :sleep:
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Turn 3 (3900) - nada
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IBT :sleep:
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Turn 4 (3850) - nada
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IBT :sleep:
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Turn 5 (3800) worker roads
=====
IBT :sleep:
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Turn 6 (3750) our city has grown, lux to 10%, mm citizen to FPW to get growth
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IBT :sleep:
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Turn 7 (3700) worker to FPW
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IBT :sleep:
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Turn 8 (3650) worker irrigates
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IBT - Beijing trains a warrior
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Turn 9 (3600) Warrior S, treasury to 1.6.3
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IBT :sleep:
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Turn 10 (3550) Warrior S, pops hut, gets 3 barbs (!)
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IBT - our warrior fends off one barb, border expansion
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Turn 11 (3500) worker roads, scout crosses fingers, warrior NW
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IBT Barb warriors move west (?)
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Turn 12 (3450) the unhappiness is tough...put all citizens on high-food tiles, hire a scientist. (Beijing is now size 4) Warrior west to scout.
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IBT A mayan warrior shows up NW of our border.
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Turn 13 (3400)
Maya won't trade pottery for anything, and we're 5 turns out. He's down WC, up alpha and pottery.
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IBT barb warriors shuffle to high ground
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Turn 14 (3350)
Warrior N, sees an Iroquois Warrior.
Hiawatha up BW, Alph, Pottery, CB. Will trade Pottery for 20g+1gpt. We're 3 turns out.
Trade Maya Pottery for WC. (Hiawatha already has it..)
====
IBT - a purple border shows up outside beijing, and the Inca show up.

I'm going to save it here...because I think I'm a little out of my league... I probably should have told you guys that high-food, low shield starts are a weakness....

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/GRAM20_at_turn15.jpg

After action review: I played this under the model "Population is power" and wound up hiring a specialist much sooner than I ever have. We do have pottery, but the price we paid was highway robbery. We're low on shields, but our worker is mining. Beijing is growing like a weed, and we've only got 2 warriors. I'm really hoping I haven't screwed this up right out of the gate...

For the next better player: > > The Save < < (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Gram2,_3300_BC.SAV)

Sorry for the double post - but we met the inca on that last turn. (It's a mid-turn save). That bring us to 3 known civs: Iroquois, Maya, Inca.

Well it looks like an archer gambit is forth coming and a settler to the north for the dyes and military production. I would swap to a worker to get those hills mined. It may have worked out better only irrigating one FP and roading both to get to the hills sooner and the food would not have killed you. I saw a T-hawk Celtic game with the same situation. Use specialists as you have too keeping on the hills. Chinese are industrious so it won't be much longer before the hills are done and the capital will settle. Pop a worker and then a settler. Granary would be nice but you'll outgrow it at our current spt. Once the hills are are mined up it will be fine.

Yikes. That was my fear with this start too. Too much food to deal with so early. Better you than me, Scoutsout. Sounds like barbslinger has a handle on it though. Once we get those mines in place we'll be in better shape.

And, boy, its nice to know our little archipelago map has left us nice and cozy with a few neighbors.

allright scout, no problem. sorry, i usually do a tile analysis before these kick off so we can discuss our start but had to get ready for a design review tomorrow so I didn't have time. i'll play 15 or so to get this straightened out but like barbslinger said, we're not too far off thanks to our industrious trait.

the starting position doesn't look too bad. the desert is very narrow so there's probably a lot more good land to the north. i'm not ready to sell out on an archer gambit till we see more of the map :)

I also should have put something in there about the "goody" hut. when I popped 3 barbs out of it... it sort of forced me to keep the warrior close to home. They were sort of menacing our worker the whole time. I wanted to send him west...

...sorry I hosed up the start...

The archers I spoke of we're to get the 1st ring city for ourselves and possibly put a dent in the Inca. It is a ways off. We need a military town for escorting our multitude of settlers that will be forthcoming. I'm wondering if settling 2 norht on the desert would work. The capital has more than enough food for now and beyond. 2 north and the military city could take the FP on the corner and then poach the FP wheat after we irrigate the SE FP wheat. It would get it up to pop limit and be able to spew warriors/archers/spears with the forests to work along with 2 FP's

first, the 2470BC save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Gram2-2470BC.SAV)

Preflight check (3300BC): Zoom into Beijing to see what’s going on. Right now, we are working 3 FP wheats (2 irrigated) and 1 hill for +7fpt and +2spt. Wow, I wonder if we’ll even need a granary here :lol: But seriously, looks like it will fall as follows:
CC: 2fpt, 1spt
2FPW: 10fpt, 0spt (total)
3 mined hills: 3fpt, 6spt (total)

This will give us +5fpt and +7spt at size 5. At size 6, working another hill, we get +4fpt and +9spt so we will have to micromanage off the hill at turn 4 of the cycle to a food source. At size 6, turn 4 of the cycle, move the citizen off the mined hill and onto a FP Wheat (Not Irrigated) to get +7fpt and +7spt. Shield total per turn will be 7, 16(assumes citizen jumps to mined hill), 25, 32. We could probably get a 2nd town close to Beijing to share the extra FP wheat while it’s not in use.

MM Beijing: off FP wheat, onto hill, off irrigated FP wheat and onto hill, fire the scientist and put him on another hill for +1fpt and +5spt. Switch build to worker (if a DG AI wants us, another warrior won’t help) due in 2T. Right now we are researching alphabet due in 27T. All three of our neighbors have it so it’s probably not worth researching. ATM, I shut down research to help fill the coffers a little and help with the lux tax. Increase lux tax up to 40% from 30% to let the extra citizen get that shield. Treasury is 23g making +4gpt

Iroquios seem to be right on top of us. Thought this was a large map? Rename warrior in Beijing to Ada and explorer to Jujan (that’s bubba and biff to you and me :) ); Jujan goes NW in search of good land, right next to Grand River;

IBT: Iroquios ask us to leave, sure thing.

T1: 3250BC Jujan N

IBT: get booted out of Iroquois territory; Beijing worker -> worker, MM to get in 3T

T2: 3200BC Lower Lux tax to 30% (+5gpt); Jujan N; worker helps out with mining

T3: 3150BC Worker mines, Jujan to mountain; MM Beijing off hill and onto FP to get growth again and can lower lux tax (grow in 3T, worker still in 2T); Lux tax down to 20% for +7gpt

Inca up Alpha and BW now; Iroquois up Alpha, BW, and CB; Maya up Alpha

T4: 3100BC Jujan N

IBT: worker -> warrior (MM grow in 2T, warrior in 4T)

T5: 3050BC Move new worker NE of Beijing cause the other 2 will be done in 1T; Jujan NE, finds Inca border

T6: 3000BC Meet the Aztecs. They are up BW but won’t trade; Jujan E (Inca have nice land); New worker mines and the other 2 road.

T7: 2950BC Jujan E; MM off hill and onto FP wheat to give quick growth boost.

Beijing warrior -> settler

T8: 2900BC Drop lux tax to 10% thanks to our warrior; Workers merge onto the same hill; MM off Irr FP wheat and onto river hill to shave 2T off settler build (settler and growth in 6T); Jujan SE and I now see where city #2 will go. Can’t buy any techs right now.

T9: 2850BC Jujan W, workers mine the hill (6T to 2T)

IBT: Aztecs are building the Pyramids

T10: 2800BC Jujan NW

IBT: damit, Inca warrior/settler pair coming south to take our cow and there’s nothing I can do about it

T11: 2750BC Workers finish 2nd mine, 2 begin roading and the 3rd moves N to hill

T12: 2710BC Jujan N to mountain (in Inca territory), blahh, lots of marshes. No wonder they are coming south. Worker mines.

T13: 2670BC Both workers move to hill, tempting a Mayan warrior; Jujan goes west

Iroquois now up the Wheel as well; Aztecs up the Wheel, Alpha, and BW; Iro and Inca up Wheel Alpha, BW, and CB; Maya up BW and Alpha; Can buy CB for 90g and 2gpt but no one has any gold to trade.

IBT: Beijing settler -> granery

T14: 2630BC MM lux tax to 0%; Jujan NW; Settler NW, N; workers mine; trading for CB will bankrupt us even though the Maya now know it too. Aztecs do not. However, probably not enough gold for a 2’fer atm since the Iro want most of our treasury for CB.

IBT: Inca settle Ollantaytambo in an inane location, missing the lux and the cow but effectively cutting us off from getting both. Guess we’ll settle for the lux.

T15: 2590BC Jujan goes west. Settler NW

T16: 2550BC Settler NW, 2 workers road, 1 worker 1 to dyes; MM Beijing for growth in 2T

T17: 2510BC Jujan N; Found Shanghai W of dyes -> warrior; worker begins to road dyes; gpt jumps to +11gpt.
Trades: Iroquois: 6gpt, 109g for the Wheel; Maya: CB for the Wheel (BW was available but for all our treasury (ie, no lux MM’ing possible)

T18: 2470BC Meet an American scout and they are up BW, Alpha, and Myst; workers finish road on hill and move to the 4th hill and they see a damn American settler to the south. These clowns are all over us, what the hell kind of arch map is this? MM Beijing to get granary in 6T, MM Shanghai to get warrior in 5T.

Got a little lost with the turn count and took 2 too many, I think.

We should consider switching the Beijing granary to a settler. It could finish another in 2T. The reason to consider it is because we are being pinched from all sides atm. There is hardly any room for expansion with Iro and Maya to our immediate W; Inca to the N, and Americans to the S. Also, there is a horse NW of Shanghai that we should probably go get. However, this may be a short term solution to a long term problem and we'd be better off sticking to the granery. Tough choice.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/gram2-2470BC.JPG

ok, i figured out why we are meeting so many people. i used seedbeast to look at the save and we are a pangea! i'm real sorry and can generate another 5 saves tomorrow to try again. not sure what the hell happened other an my misclick when looking for the 1st save while using mapfinder.

let me know what the team wants to do. in reality, this start does stink but i have no problem battling thru it. it just annoys me that i stated arch and then sprung a pangea on you.

lets discuss before we go any further. :blush:

Let's see... in the first 15 turns, I met 3 barbs, and 3 civs... that probably should've been a hint that it wasn't a 'pelago map!

:rotfl: mao

Maybe we can set up a funnel of doom with some archer armies....

Im up for a battle but im sure the people after me will want a go at this ;)

It is looking very bleak though, we have 4 civs very close by and will maybe only get 3/4 cities. Also, the Iroquios have a very bad habit of attacking me for no reason.

ok knapp, finish the granery then get a settler. remember to let the granery finish before you grow to size 5. that should take you thru your turns. check for trades every turn and use the dye forest as a chop to get a barracks in Shanghai after the road and warrior (should be able to time it well). i think we could pack in at least 6, maybe more, but they won't get very big. to alleviate the situation, we're going to have to go for a massive chariot -> horse upgrade (30g each, iirc).

if the others want to restart on an arch, please let me know. i believe with our current mix of player levels that a pangea will be a little too much but i'm often proved wrong :)

Got it. Will play tonight whenever i get off work.

Start a new map? Hey now. I changed my undershorts and everything! There's no turning back now.

Seriously this is looking pretty scary (at Demigod no less!). But I'm game for it. I know my turn are probably going to be the most nerveracking turns I've ever played of civ, but at least I can be reassured that my damage is limited to 10 turns. Plus, its comforting to know we are surrounded by many nice American friends. Nice, nice friends. Please let us settle near you?

6 cities in our close lands? That's a lot of desert in use. We should look down south to see if there is anything beyond the hills besides Mayans and Americans.

ok, ok, good to see i got some people with strong constitutions here :) gozpel and i really wanted an arch for this but ok, we'll keep playing.

@spikeit -> i hope theres something to the south but with all these FP's, we can afford to pack'em in.

Admittedly though. It looks ominous. Is this max water? Is that why we are so cramped? I would suggest some archers after we get 4-5 town, if possible. Once the AI runs out of living space they will come knocking.

Admittedly though. It looks ominous. Is this max water? Is that why we are so cramped? I would suggest some archers after we get 4-5 town, if possible. Once the AI runs out of living space they will come knocking.
80% water so expect guests soon. settle south & w on the hills to form a defensive ring and strike N, imho.

Well, I'd like to battle to the bitter end. We can always start the original island map with 80% water if and when we go down in flames. It feels like an archer gambit to me. Let's see what 10 archers can do to get us a couple first ring cities. If we can bag 2 cities in the first ring we can probably get quick peace and a tech, especially if we still have 5-6 archers left after. It is a hope that we have iron on one of our hills too.

this will be interesting, that's for sure :lol: sorry again for the screw up as i'm 100% sure it was my misclick.

I'm with 'slinger. Let's see how far we can take this. Who knows? We might actually whack somebody and make it interesting...

Haha, this is funny :) Cramped pangea on demigod, this will hurt!

But let's see how our archers do, nothing is impossible.

Haha, this is funny :) Cramped pangea on demigod, this will hurt!
But let's see how our archers do, nothing is impossible.
i'm glad your laughing. you'll have a lot to fix now ;)

ok, i figured out why we are meeting so many people. i used seedbeast to look at the save and we are a pangea! i'm real sorry and can generate another 5 saves tomorrow to try again. not sure what the hell happened other an my misclick when looking for the 1st save while using mapfinder.

let me know what the team wants to do. in reality, this start does stink but i have no problem battling thru it. it just annoys me that i stated arch and then sprung a pangea on you.

lets discuss before we go any further. :blush:

At last!

An exciting looking succession game where the humans could lose so providing some uncertainty at long last to a succession game instead of the lame obsession with Pelago games.

An exciting looking succession game <snip>Yeah, that was real #$!$##! exciting all right! :p Watching all those AI show up at the borders while I had our warrior (singular) between the barbs and our worker (also singular). Oh well, at least the cleaning detergent worked on my favorite chair. :crazyeye:

knappagh1 any word? coming up on 72hrs from got it. please keep us informed :)

Roster review:
scoutsout
grahamiam <- just played
Knappagh1 <- UP
barbslinger <- on deck
spikeit
gozpel

Okay, reviewing the thread while I wait for my, gulp, turn to come around. I need a quick clarification on the rules, especially concerning our present situation. Once we have horses, are we still allowed to build warriors and archers without limits? Given that horses are within range, and several of the AI already have horseback riding, it seems we will have horses rather soon. I just want to make sure we don't need to hold off from connecting up the horses to enable an archer rush.

Also, are there no limits to the numbers of warrior and archers we can build? If so, maybe we want to build extra purely for MP duty in the future. If we can afford the shields, that is... which is unlikely.

And by horse units, if it comes to this, I'm assuming tanks and beyond are out (unless we can teach our horses to drive, of course!)? Granted if we become a part of the Iroquois nation by then this question is moot. :p

And by horse units, if it comes to this, I'm assuming tanks and beyond are out <snip>Though I suspect the game will be decided by that point, armor basically is cavalry. Branch insignia for "Cavalry" and "Armor" for the US Army is below to make the point... but I suspect Grahamiam would really enjoy sending horse-mounted cavalry against Mech Infantry for some reason. As long as we're allowed to bring some fire support along, we should be okay....

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Calvalry.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Armor.jpg

Though I suspect the game will be decided by that point, armor basically is cavalry. <snip>


Yup. Although not really well informed about all of the military branches and units, I was aware of armor being cavalry. But, as you pointed out, I think our rulesmith has in mind being limited to actual horse units. Just trying to get some clarification. Within the scope of the game, of course... ;)

given the current playing conditions, an archer rush to secure our base and beyond is fine. as many vet archers as possible will be needed. if things sink really low, we may want to allow cats as well.
edit: definitely secure the horses if possible. i'm not gonna hold hard and fast to the rules till we get some breathing room

we'd have to discuss things regarding tanks. imho, if we play this right, we should win before RP or shortly thereafter so no need. cav's with arty support can do just fine vs. infantry. but first we have to make it to the MA :)

since we are beyond 72hrs from got it, if knappagh1 doesn't post an update/status/extension request in the next couple of hours, then barbslinger can take it.

Since the game changed with grahamiam's delicate touch on the mapmaking, I agree that we need those archers to secure some more lands :)

When we have a few more cities, if we live that long, then it's time to discuss the horses. But as I proposed to grahamiam, one defensive unit per city and artillery would be allowed withing certain limits. And this game is The whip and Saddle after all, if we change the allowance of all units we better ask a mod to rename the thread :lol:

Will play tonight if knappagh1 has not shown up. Hopefully we can get 4 cities down and some rax and archers built before the fur flies. Pop rushing may be beneficial with our growth the way it is.

ok barbslinger, sounds good. if you have the time, you may want to take a couple extra to ensure both the archer and settler pump in good shape for spikeit. good luck :thumbsup:

imho, the game will start to turn once we have hbr, if we get there :) we should probably pick a close neighbor as a designated "friend" for now, perhaps the iroquois especially since we're paying them 6gpt atm. in fact, we'll need all the friends we can get for the short term.

Well, who's golden age do we want to risk kicking off first? I imagine that at demi-god level, an AI golden age is something to behold. Would we rather face Aztec Jaguars, Mayan Javs, Iroquois Mounted Warriors, or Incan Chasqui Scouts? Somehow, the Incans seems like a good early choice. Not to mention they are crowding us from the immediate north. Of course this is all speculative as if we are going to have a choice of opponent...

Nice points on the AA UU's. I would prefer the Iro's because they may not have MW's yet. If we can plop a city N-NW of Shanghai. It will deny horses to Iros and give us horses. They are probably building a temple for the expansion already. At small map there are probably not many horses around. I'm hoping that I can get another settler out for the horses before the expansion. (see yellow dot). Second settler near sugar and perhaps another near the oasis in the SW. After that it is pop rushing rax and archer building. Archers are 20s vs. horses at 30s. The workers should build up the infra before hooking up the horses, IMO. If our 1st war does not pan out it will probably be over for us anyhow. Build around 10-12 archers and then go for it with archers in the cue. We can disband them for rushing spears when we get to that.

i agree yellow should be our primary objective and then settle to the south. looks like a good short-term plan. The yellow dot should also start a barracks since it will easily make 5spt @ size 4 or 5. the blue dot also looks nice but we may be stopped already.

Also, it doesn't hurt to "snake" some settlements thru a friendly neighbor. it'll be annoying and a bit of a threat but may work out if we keep him happy. the iroquois without MW's would be the best bet if we initiate. if they get them then they should be our allies for the AA.

Gram2.0 – 2470BC – Shanghai swaps off of plain 1s1f to dyes tile that is 1f2s. Everyone has BW, Alpha with Abe and Hiawatha also up Myst. No deals and I also note that Hi has the most cities at 6. Can’t see the need for the granary when we need settlers due to breathing room and the town already makes more food and can grow very quickly.

IT – We get hit with disease. Down to 3 pop.

2430BC – Swap off the irrigated FP and move to unirrigated FP with fingers crossed. Due to jungle and not seeing the border I move into Iro territory next to Allegheney, on coast and in jungle. No tech changes.

IT – Down to pop2. Iro give me a warning.

2390BC – Move out of Iro lands. This pop loss it hurts our economy too. Sliders at 0-0 and only making +3gpt with 20g in the bank. Use both FP to try to balance with settler in 4.

IT – Dye road comes in. Warrior>Rax in Shanghai. Need to go get to FP for Shanghai to invigorate growth.

2350 – Worker heads to FP by way of chopping forest SW of town for Rax and then on to the FP. Aztecs will give us BW for CB, 20g and 3gpt. Little too expensive. Though we need it to see IW. Alpha is close but no deal for all we have. No other tech changes. Growth in 1. Settler in 3 at 1spt. Set governor to emphasize food so it does not complete next turn.

IT – Nothing but interlopers cruising our territory. The American settler just went south after hanging out on that spot for a few hundred years. Bejing settler is due in 2 with growth in 2.

2310 – Aztecs must have discovered HBR because the Iro’s have it now too and the Heshee Monty has picked up CB.

IT – Lots of colossus builds start.

2270 – Waiting on settler.

IT - Settler>Settler. It will be tricky doing one with growth this time.

2230 – Settler heads for Sugar in the south. Tiwakanu borders expand and reach for the horses. We’ll have to settle 1 SW of original dot. Rax in Shanghai should complete this turn. We need 11s and chop will complete this turn. Move off of dyes for a +2fpt tile. Aztecs now have Myst and Abe got a new town, Chicago, probably with that settler from earlier. In our south. No deals. This is tough.

IT – Iro pair heading towards the sugar.
2190 – Workers head to help with Shanghai FP and road other FP wheat for new city.

IT – Nada

2150 – Plant Sugar. Begin FP irrigating. Swap governor to emphasize production because we don’t need the food this time.

IT – Nada

2110 – All AI have the techs they all else have except Inca so we are at a dead end without being able to 2-fer or having the opportunity. I have to make a deal to see a tech. Everything is out of our reach except BW and I see no need for IW. Have to wait until our cash will get alpha. That and HBR and Myst are the short objectives.

IT –Iro settler move off. Collosus and pyramids are started in a few towns in America.

2070 –Workers working. Not much else to do except imagine the techs the others must have. Myst is close to a deal and the Inca still don’t have it.

IT – Nada.

2030 – Settler in 5 with growth in 3. I set governor to emphasize production so settler should pop at 4 if it works the mined hill. It is doing 7spt. Abe and Monty each get a new city.

IT - Nada.

1990 – The deal can be had with Monty but now Inca has Myst. Damn again. Inca also has horses hooked up. No one else does.

IT – Nada.

1950 – I’m mining the sugar now. We’re at 75 and +12gpt. We can get alpha now for around 65g and +8gpt. However we have a settler popping soon that will lower that. I don’t want to go negative. Wait a minute. Maya still don’t have HBR. Iro are cheapest at 9gpt and 65g for HBR. Maya give us Alpha if we toss in 2gpt and HBR. We’re at 10g +1gpt. Settler and growth in 3.

IT – Iro demand our last 10g :lol: This is frustrating.

1910 – We are 1g and 1gpt.

IT – Iro expands to cover the horses. Not for long.

1870 – Settler in 1.

IT –Archer in Shanghai > Another.

1830 – Head for horses. This is getting ridiculous with the amounts of AI troops and settlers wandering about.

IT – The Oracle is started by a few AI.

1790 – Well, we are on site for the horses. I’ll settle but it takes them from Iro culture expansion.

IT – Not much

1750 – Settle Horses, swiping the horses from Iro’s and a BG from Inca.

We still have one more spot we can settle next to the oasis. Watch the cash and MM’g off of gold tiles. I have the governor in Bejing set to emphasize production so turn it off if you see fit. There won’t be any deals until we get some more cash. That will be in about 10 turns and hopefully we can swing writing to get a lit run going.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/gram2.0-1750BC.jpg

looking tough. nice set barbslinger, not much you can do about demands with the shape we're in :) glad to see we have two more cities though we may want to MM Beijing for some growth so we can get a little more gpt. i have a feeling that town is going to be fighting disease the whole game.

edit: nice job getting alpha and HBR :thumbsup: just caught that :)

Roster update:
scoutsout
grahamiam
Knappagh1 ???
barbslinger <- just played
spikeit <- UP
gozpel <- on deck

Great job Barbslinger. Yeah, it wasn't at first clear to me either whether you took the deals, but you did. Nice job.

It looks like I should be able to settle the oasis city and continue the archer buildup. I only hope I can manage the MM'ing as well as Barbslinger did. Now if I could just stay out of war. Let's see if the Iroquois mind our city taking the horses from them. :rolleyes:

Got It. Can start this evening.

We can probably squeeze in 2-3 cities more after the obvious site W of the capitol, but it will be an ultra tight build. If for nothing less it will help us with unit support and to build the occational unit.

We also might want to send out at least a warrior to bust some fog, we know way too little about our surroundings.

The green dot is hysterically aggressive, and we won't probably get it anyways before the Iro town build a temple.

The green one works for me but it will be a half city with one edge. 7 tiles. the AI has found other land to the south. By the looks of the mini map there has to be more land about. I like the nomadic warrior scout though it will get the boot and quite possibly foment an early war, which we do not need. 12 arcers and, IMO, it is GO-TIME. 2-3 cities and peace for tech and perhaps another city.

while the 1st wave of archers are out, we should consider some horse builds for support. a little more expensive but that's what we're all about :)

good luck spikeit :thumbsup: try to summarize our troop levels at the end of your turns. thanks :)

"The green one works for me but it will be a half city with one edge. 7 tiles."

If I could move mountains, I would :) We only need a few tiles to build stuff, that's why I proposed it. A couple of extra reg archers is better than none.

"The green one works for me but it will be a half city with one edge. 7 tiles."

If I could move mountains, I would :) We only need a few tiles to build stuff, that's why I proposed it. A couple of extra reg archers is better than none.I'm with you a hundred %. With our limited land we should half tile our whole empire, food allowing. Then we will be a tightly wound bundle of explosives when we go for our first few cities. We can always settler disband down the road.

Clean underwear? Check. Barf bag? Check. Gatorade? Check. Aleady. Let's play demi-god.

[0] 1750BC
Took a look at diplo screen. Behind Bronze working, Mysticism,and Math to everyone. Writing to Abe and Hiawatha, our benefactor...
Just for kicks, look at the power graph and laugh. Here we go...
Oh. And our army...
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Gram20_1750BC_army.jpg

IBT
Incan settler pair heads south. Gunning for our SW city spot, I imagine.

[1] 1725BC
Mine finishes outside of Horses, we road and connect to Incans, but not to trade network.
Note the Incan and Aztec warriors hanging in the jungle. Its a regular pow-wow.
Beijing is size 4. Settler due in 4.
Pulling 10 gpt.

IBT
Sugar rax -> archer
Sumerians complete Pyramids
Mayan warrior comes into view from north.

[2] 1700BC
Mayans picked up writing too.
I guess we are doing zero science use pointy stick research.
Abe has lots of cities. There must be some choice land down there. Send workers to mine hills of sugar.

IBT
America starts Oracle, as do Iroquois, Aztecs. Mayans start Colossus, and Oracle, and complete the Oracle!

[3] 1675BC
Aztecs have writing too. Can't trade for it, although we can pick up BW or Myst for gpt. No 2fer shots at all.

IBT
Incans start Oracle. Iroquois start Great Lighthouse! Someone has MapMaking.

[4] 1650BC
Worker lands on Sugar hill. Beijing settler due next turn. If we trade for Myst, do we have chance at min sci toward Poly? Unlikely. Need more gold for trades. Need cities.

IBT
Incan settler pair pops back into view...
Beijing settler -> settler
Shanghai archer -> archer
Iroquois Dept. of Public Works starts to road our horses.

[5] 1625BC
Sugar grows, switch one worker to taxman to control happiness, archer due in 2. Gives us 12 gpt.
Explorer shows Iroquois have another source of horses just outside their borders.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Gram20_1625BC_unclaimed_Iroquois_horses.jpg
Incans still lack writing, but we can't trade for it.

IBT
Incan settler pair is getting dizzy.
Incans still lack writing...

[6] 1600BC
workers mine

IBT
Iroquois PW finishes our horse road.
Incan settler pairs seems lost.
Sugar completes archer -> archer
Taxman starts working again.

[7] 1575BC
Incans are hemmed in as well - only 4 cities still. No writing.
Do we build horses or trade them for tech? We can pick up writing for horses, 5gpt, and 9 gold from the Iroquois. We should be able to turn this around to the Incas. We don't need horses for our archer army... The time of the horse will come soon enough.
Iroquois have Map Making too.
Turn Writing, 55 gold and 1gpt around to Incans for Mysticism and Bronze Working.

Tech update. We are down Iron Working and Math to everyone. Iroquois have Map Making as well.

Start min-sci on Literature.

IBT
Incan settler pair continues tour of China.

[8] 1550BC
America learns poly and trade with Iroquois for Map Making.
City of Oasis found. Starts a warrior.
Abe has 10 cities at this point.

IBT
Aztecs ask we move from their lands. Sure, whatever.

[9] 1525BC
Warrior continues into Aztec territory.

IBT
Monty kicks us out.
Horses grows and archer -> rax
Iroquois start Temple of Artemis. Salamanca completes the Oracle.

[10] 1500BC
Hah. Monty's move forces us north into Azteca. They must have founded another city the same turn as we're still in their territory. Okay. Let's continue north.

Alright. We're min-sci on Lit right now. Behind on techs, but at least there are more tech possibilities. I only produced a couple archers on my watch, but we have a couple more about ready, and another settler queued up. At least the lords of Demi-god decided to spare me for the moment. The Incans seemed primed to be taken down first. We just have to wait out the deal.

And our army now...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Gram20_1500BC_army.jpg

Our lands now...
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Gram20_1500BC_land.jpg

Pretty nice Spikeit. Using the horses for trading is something I thought of because one of my favorite players, Charis, has used it many times to good effect. About 15-16 turns of building archers and then prebuild for 30s horses. We strike as soon as deal expires and prepare for their possible strike.
Nice job again.

Nice job spikeit :goodjob: nice trading! nice to know we're not the smallest kid on the block and 4 more towns via Inca conquest sounds good to me. very good attack routes too with a mountain and a hill next to thier closest towns.

Roster update:
scoutsout <- on deck
grahamiam
Knappagh1 ???
barbslinger
spikeit <- just played
gozpel <- UP

Yep, good job SpikeIt :)

I got it and will take out Iro's with my 4 archers!

Ah well, maybe not just yet. :)

I got it and will take out Iro's with my 4 archers!
Ah well, maybe not just yet. :)
patience is key now, at least till my turns :D

actually, imho, we may want to hold off on greenie as we don't need to provoke the iroquois any more than we have to atm. once we take care of the inca, we can start acting obnoxious towards the iroquois. i think 1 opponent at a time is all we can handle.

edit: do we want to continue a min run on Lit? we should decide now since soon we won't be able to reverse it without completely stopping. imho, we shouldn't research anything unless we got a shot at a Philosophy tech bonus. otherwise, save the gold for tech buys and allies for fighting.

Thanks y'all. :) I'll admit, I've read a Charis game or two in my time. He loves to trade those "not so spare" resources for gains. But really, it was the only thing with enough value to open up our tech options, which we desparately needed to do. And it was mighty kind of the Iroquois to road our horses so we could trade to them. At least Hiawatha put to good use the money he demanded from us during Barbslinger's turns.

If we can ever get the spare production, maybe we should build a Currugh. We might luck out and find another continent or land mass with some other AI. Once we are rid of the Inca, we'll need another AI with which to trade tech with.

Oh, and beware of the Americans. They have around 10 - 11 cities at this point. There must be some vast stretches of land down south.

edit: do we want to continue a min run on Lit? we should decide now since soon we won't be able to reverse it without completely stopping. imho, we shouldn't research anything unless we got a shot at a Philosophy tech bonus. otherwise, save the gold for tech buys and allies for fighting.

Aargh. Playing tired, I completely overlooked Philosophy. :( I guess I recalled some mention on the thread of trying to grab the Great Library. Not that we are really set up to build any wonders at this point. Kind of a dumb move. As for Philo, what are the chances of grabbing Philosophy before the AI at demi-god? Obviously its seems at least one AI prioritized Map Making over Philosophy. I don't know. The money we'd have to sacrifice to make a run at Philosophy could probably be used to buy a couple of techs if more 2-fers become available... And there is no guarantee we'll even have a shot at it. We will have more gold coming to us once a deal expires with the Iroquois in the next 10 turns.

I say either keep min-sci or stop research. We'll need the money for battle and we could start pointy stick research. :hammer:

Pre-turn - Teleportation on.
Check cities, set Beijing to grow next turn and change Oasis to worker.

Check diplo, 5 turns left on gpt deal with Iro. Everything is good.
Turn off research to save us 3gpt. Work roaded tiles make our income 9gpt, not enough.
Decide to switch Sugar to settler in 3.

1475bc - America is building ToA.
Aztecs asks us politely to move our troops; Sure thing, Monty.

Luxtax 10%.

1450bc - America is building the Lighthouse.

Beijing settler -> settler
Shanghai archer -> archer

1425bc - Sugar settler -> archer
Luxes 0 again, we make 8gpt with 2 settlers out.

1400bc - Aztecs kicks us out of their territory. Fortify warrior up north, he is trapped anyways, I hope for a Aztec cultural expansion. Who knows where he ends up then ;)

Oasis worker -> barracks
Xinjian founded -> curragh, will be built with forest chop...I hope.

1375bc - Sneakville is founded -> barracks

Slow growth in Beijing to get settler in 3t, the city can raise pop very fast later.

We got 9gpt extra after the deal with Iro expired, we have 23gpt atm and 53g.
No good deals possible.

1350bc - Shanghai archer -> archer

1325bc - Horses barracks -> archer
Xinjian curragh -> barracks. Curragh S.

1300bc - Beijing settler -> settler

1275bc - Sugar archer -> archer

1250bc - A couple of civs are building the Lighthouse, Including Aztecs, trading time.

Shanghai archer -> archer
Hangchow founded -> barracks

I knows it's "rude" to trade the last turn, but I worked damn hard to get the gold, so next player please forgive me.

Polytheism from Iro for 161g and 21gpt.
Poly, 4gpt and 2g to Maya for MapMaking.
Poly, MM to Inca for IW, Maths and 25g.

We are on par with everyone except Iroquois, who knows Construction.
Aztecs only have 3g, so I didn't sell Poly to them.

We have iron in Sneakville.

Sugar is unhappy, so I set luxes to 10%. We should consider a temple there, whip it! That would give us happiness and the whale. The luxtax is 3gpt, I think it's worth the life of a citizen to keep the gold.

We only need one more town, 2 NE of Beijing. It will give us a couple extra gold.
Beijing needs barracks after next settler.

We have 8 archers, 5 warriors and a curragh. We are getting there.

I don't think Iro's will do anything silly, they seem very content with us giving them all our gold :lol:

And our mighty empire :)

Nice turns there. You did a bit better MM'ing than myself, building two more cities and another settler. Nice. And great trade at the end. I think war is coming soon... :goodjob:

iron, horses, what more do we need :)

nice turns gozpel :thumbsup: looks like scoutsout gets to play setup-man. 4-5 more archers and a couple of spears should do the trick. try to get those units NE or E of Shanghai and N of Horses. we'll enter thru the mountain and the hill. good luck :)


Roster update:
scoutsout <- UP
grahamiam <- on deck
Knappagh1 ??? Please check in and give a status :)
barbslinger
spikeit
gozpel <- just played

It was nothing wrong with your setup SpikeIt, it's just a way of thinking ahead and to maximize pop when you have a chance. Make it a habit to always scroll through cities every turn and soon it will become a second nature :)

Next player: Whip that temple in Sugar and we might think of a temple in Horses too, just to ease the pressure from the Iro towns. It won't cost us too much as temples are cheap.

I was just looking over the wonderless is wonderful game. We had 10 archers and attacked in 550BC. It was Emporer but none the less we could have wiped the Koreans out. I'm even thinking we should ally Aztecs with us when we attack Inca so that we can turn on Iro's before they get horses.

I was just looking over the wonderless is wonderful game. We had 10 archers and attacked in 550BC...
i was looking for that game to take a look but had trouble finding it. who hosted that game?

i was looking for that game to take a look but had trouble finding it. who hosted that game? It's on page 3, Called Wonderless is wonderful, hosted by disruptive idiot.

It's on page 3, Called Wonderless is wonderful, hosted by disruptive idiot.
thanks, yep, looks like we're in even better shape here. if the inca only have 4 cities, 10-12 archers and a couple of spears should do the trick. just poached some iron in 1.0gram using a similar archer rush manuver, only we were up against immortals so it was much more defensive but not too hard.

Graham just gave me a litte :bump: in a PM - I hadn't realized this was coming back to me... I'll play it tonight, but I'll check the thread before I do in case anybody thinks of any advice or priorities between now and then...

"got it" (And I'll try to do better this time).

@scoutsout: i just notice that 3 archer builds will be done soon so if you see the opportunity to start in on the Inca, go for it. you don't have to be the setup man if we're ready ;)

Pre-flight check 1250 BC

Not much to tweak here...

=====

IBT - Inca Spear/Settler moves to hill SW of Sugar, a warrior/settler pair appears just inside Iroquois border...
Lincoln establishes an embassy in our capitol
The Inca are building ToA, so are the Maya
=====
Turn 1 (1225)
We're up Poly on Monty, but he has only 4g.
Workers road mined oasis near Oasis
=====
IBT -
Inca settler pairs move, The Inca are building the GL'house
=====
Turn 2 (1200)
Wake an Archer in Shanghai to dance with a settler pair, do the same with Ada. (Trying to slow these guys down so we can pop some workers...)
=====
IBT - Settler pairs dance, Sugar Archer>Temple (per Gozpel)
Horses Archer>Archer
=====
Turn 3 (1175)
Mine some desert, move some units to block Incan settler pairs
=====
IBT - Lincold demands 21g, Shanghai Archer>Archer | Oasis Rax>Archer
Aztecs are buildin ToA
=====
Turn 4 (1150)
Aztecs got Philosophy and Code of Laws, Maya and America have Philo, Inca has nadda
Hire a scientist in Sugar to slow growth and free up mined hill, Lit in 47 instead of never, treasury at breakeven, MM citizen to mined hill in Beijing, growth in 3, settler in 3 (pulled MP out of there to block settler...
=====
IBT - Settler pairs dance, Aztecs & Maya building Mausoleum
=====
Turn 5 (1125)
Road a mined desert near Oasis, do the settler pair waltz
=====
IBT - Sumeria completes Temple of Artemis
An Iroquois border expansion takes away a site I wanted to settle.
=====
Turn 6 (1100)
Dance with settler pairs
=====
IBT - Settler pairs consolidate on tile SW of Shanghai, Beijing Settler>Rax
Americans complete Mausoleum in Washington
Iroquois building Great Wall
=====
Turn 7 (1075)
Something changed - we're now at +8gpt
Do a little dancing
Whip the temple in Sugar, Lit back to never, now at +7gpt
Not seeing any sites to settle, I skip the settler...
=====
IBT - Hiawatha demands 20g (He has over 1000)
Shanghai and Horses train Archers, and start 2 more | Sugar Temple>Archer
=====
Turn 8 (1050)
Move a couple of workers, dance with Inca settler pairs, we are weak compared to everybody we know but America
=====
IBT - not much
=====
Turn 9 (1025)
Dance, and road,
=====
IBT - Sneakville Rax>Spear
====
Turn 10 (1000)
Mine some desert and dance with the settler pairs.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/20gram_1000.jpg

After Action Review:

I got a modest amount of research going for us in Sugar, and got the temple built. When the border expands it might open up a spot for the settler 2-SW of Sugar. We could also save the settler for raze and replace...

I also danced with those Inca settler pairs until I got them consolidated on one tile. The next better player will have the option of going after them or not. The archers are generally positioned so that they can be move against the Inca at a moment's notice. More units are on the way. As you can see, our entire empire is building stuff for war.

@Grahamiam: I know you said I didn't have to play set-up, but Corporal Punishment still says we're weak compared to everybody but America. Things didn't really start looking good for an attack until the last couple of turns, and (other than free workers from the settler pairs) I didn't really see an "opportunity".

So, here you go: > > The Save < < (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/11gram_1000BC.SAV)

@Grahamiam: I know you said I didn't have to play set-up, but Corporal Punishment still says we're weak compared to everybody but America. Things didn't really start looking good for an attack until the last couple of turns, and (other than free workers from the settler pairs) I didn't really see an "opportunity".
We will continue to be weak for the rest of the game if we don't jump while they still only have spears. I'm thinking the inca may have 3 spears or more in each town due to only having the 4 and nothing else to build. They could be explosive too. That is why in the beginning I was advocating an Iro war. They are busy expanding still and most likely have only 2 spears in each border town. We'll see during the next couple turns how it plays out. If we can get 2-3 incan towns we should be in better position and can spot some settlers in the new lands to get our town count up. they may all only be pop 6 for a while due to cramped space but pop 6 can knock out some shields for builds.

i got it.
looking at the save, there are a couple of inca towns up to size 4 and 5 so we need to strike now. that military advisor is not very reliable so i base my military decisions on what we know and our urgency. we have 13 archers and in 3T will have 4 more. sounds like its go time to me once i get a defender or 2 for the stacks.

edit: looking at the save a little later, looks like 1 town in on a hill :( that's gonna hurt. well, i'll play and post tomorrow night since I was trying to rush thru CoTM1 tonight.

Good luck Grahamiam, and may RNG be on our side. This is the lynchpin to our survival. Is there any cash to get the Iro's or Aztecs involved? Any settlers lying in wait?

Good luck Grahamiam, and may RNG be on our side. This is the lynchpin to our survival. Is there any cash to get the Iro's or Aztecs involved? Any settlers lying in wait?For all intents and purposes, we have no cash. Perhaps if that Iroquois horse deal comes up, we might be able to get them in... we have one settler. I think Grahamiam could change the rax to a settler if he wanted to...

Good luck! (we need it...)

@scout -> that comment i made regarding the military advisor i think was right on but may be irrelivant at this point in the game. last night, when playing cotm1, i was attacking someone with ~30 cav and 2 cav armies while all they had were spears and archers. however, the ma told me i was average, which basically lowered my expectations for that thing to work right in C3C (i think PTW it did a very good job). however, we are in the aa and all our units are basically the same so, the inca probably have a lot more units than us. however, it still doesn't change the fact that we need to do something now.

looking at a combat calculator, we only have a 34% chance of winning with an archer vs a reg spear on a hill (Ollan...). it drops to 20% if the spear is a vet. therefore, i think the best bet is to take the other two cities up north and try to get that hill city in peace or try to take it after they are spent. hopefully the rng gods are with me but they seem to leave at the worst times :)

Pfft, 8 archer will take Ollan easily.

Nuts!

I meant nuts about stupid combat calculators. It's rubbish, they don't count RNG.

I meant nuts about stupid combat calculators. It's rubbish, they don't count RNG.
you mean the RNG that allows our 1st two archers to die without scratching the 1st spear, promoting it to elite? :lol:

May the RNG be on your side. Good luck! And let's hope no one else sees decides to take advantage of our forces moving north...

As for the horses deal, that should already be up. The little influx of gold scoutsout experienced on turn 7 was probably that deal coming up. Check out the trade advisor, or see if we can use our horses again.

you mean the RNG that allows our 1st two archers to die without scratching the 1st spear, promoting it to elite? :lol:

You couldn't put it better :)

Everything or nothing, no pressure grahamiam :rolleyes:

save attached at the bottom of this post

Preflight check: filename was 11-gram something, this is 2.0gram :) Re trades: we are paying 25gpt for the next 10 turns so barbslinger will have to pull in the allies, I won’t be able to do so.
cities look good, not much to do. Move an archer N from Beijing and Sugar. Move warrior out of Xinjian to Sugar to help with unhappiness. Switch Horses and Oasis to spearmen.

IBT: Beijing barracks -> archer; Oasis spearman -> archer; Xinjian barracks -> spear; Hangchow barracks -> archer

We are known to the world as the Pathetic Chinese in regards to size :) Iroquois and the Hittites are behind us. Inca out of the top 10.

T1: 975BC Oasis spear to Beijing; 2 Beijing Archers N; other archers start gather N of Horses. Gonna go climb a mountain. Currack admires the American coastline. Worker moves south of Xinjian. Stop growth in Shanghai and slow down in Horses so I don’t have to worry about a lux tax. Shanghai can do 6spt after corruption.

IBT: Shanghai archer -> archer; Sugar archer -> archer; Sugar’s culture expands.

T2: 950BC MM Xinjian off irrigated plain onto mined hill to shave 3T off spear build.

IBT: Horses spear -> archer (MM to get in 4T vs 5T, slowing growth after an irrigated plain was finished)

T3: 925BC Move spearman in Beijing to cover dyes; stack N of horses is 11 archers and 1 spear; an archer MP’s in Beijing. An irrigated desert square near sugar would be nice as we could get that city up to 6spt as well. Happiness there is pretty non-existent for some reason (4 contents, 0 smiles)

IBT: America declares war on the Iroquois!

T4: 900BC Sniffing for a deal with America vs the Iroquois but nothing looks good (plus we’d trash our rep.) Spend 39g (basically our entire treasury) to build an embassy with the Iroquois. They have iron and horses and are 1T from completing the Great Wall. They also have 1350g (well, now we know were all our gold is at :lol: ); They have dogcrap units though with 3 spears, 1 warrior and 1 settler. No good deals there either as I can’t by Monarchy nor Construction from them in an alliance :( They will give me 126 gold for 8gpt :) guess Moonsingers trick ain’t worth it right now.

Extort 13g from the Inca :) Declare war on Inca :evil: Move SoD onto mountain. Fortify spear on the dyes. MM Oasis off irrigated wheat FP onto mined desert (shave 1T off archer build and slow down growth)

IBT: Maya ask that our rowboat get out of his waters, sure thing big ears; Inca move some troops around but not much is threatening (workers hide, spears move down for pillaging, 2 galleys appear from Ollantaytambooboo and sail south near Beijing.

Beijing archer -> archer; Iroquois complete Great Wall; Aztecs build an embassy in Beijing

T5: 875BC Beijing archer stands on hill to prevent Inca from landing there.
Attack on Tiwasomething: (all vet archers): archer kills vet spear (2/4); archer kills vet spear (3/4); archer dies to spear (3/4); archer dies to spear (2/3); archer dies to spear and promotes in (3/4); archer redlines but wins 3 straight and kills spear; archer redlines but dies to spear and promotes it (2/5); archer kills 2/3 spear; archer redlines but dies to that damn elite spear (1/5); archer kills warrior (2/4); archer redlines but kills that damn 1/5 spear capturing the town and 2 settlers, drawing 4 resistors. How’s that for friggin’ RNG? Imagine attacking that damn hill town.
Move spearman into town. There are 3 units (1 warrior, 1 spear, and 1 archer) due S of town; there is 1 horseman 2 NE from town which can strike via a roaded jungle. Send 3 of the newly captured workers to decoy the attackers, hoping to let the defenders get into town next turn.

MM between Oasis and Hangchow so we get the archer from Oasis in 1T (loose 3 food but that’s ok)

IBT: Spearman defends against archer attacking across the river and promotes; 1 Inca galleys turn around; lose 1 decoy worker; Shanghai archer -> archer; Sugar archer -> archer; Oasis archer -> archer; Palace gets a front door.

T6: 850BC Archers move N from Sugar and Oasis; MM between Horses and Shanghai to get Shanghai to 7spt; MM between Oasis and Hangchow to get Hang’s archer in 2T vs 3T; hire a taxman in Sugar due to 1 unhappy face. 1 decoy worker near Tiwanaku moves N to try to see where the horses are located. He doesn’t find the horses but does see another horseman.

IBT: Maya declare war on the Americans; Inca horseman kills an exposed archer (2/4); both decoy workers are captured; 3 resistors are quelled and the town riots; Horses archer -> archer

T7: 825BC Archer kills 2/4 horse; Move all archers out of Tiwanaku to the mountain due to flip risk (riot); rotate some units and MM some tiles; no real opportunities to attack atm

IBT: The exposed archer dies after killing 1 warrior; Tiwanaku flips (crap) costing us the elite spear; Xinjian spear -> spear; Hangchow archer -> archer

T8: 800BC Well, that flip stinks. All those archers are wounded so I move them south to get back to Horses. Vet archer kills a horseman protecting a worker; worker sent out as a decoy to see what sort of reinforcements are coming (just warriors and spears :) )vet archer kills spear protecting 2/5 warrior; Ada (reg warrior) kills the 2/5 warrior and promotes to vet (2/4).
Inca are willing to sign peace for 8g and 4gpt :lol: I thought we were the ones hurting in this war. They do not have horses so I’m gonna start building some hoping we can get an advantage here. I switch Shanghai, Oasis, Horses and Beijing from archers to horseman (total of 3 due in 3T, 4th due in 5T). Some starving is going on in Oasis and Beijing but they’ll survive. MM Sneakville to get spear in 1T.

IBT: Ada (2/4 warrior) is killed by a warrior; archer that killed the Inca (hopefully) last horseman defends against 1 warrior but dies to the 2nd.
Sneakville spear -> spear (don’t have to MM to prevent starving since an irrigated plain comes online)

T9: 775BC vet archer dies against vet spear going to pillage our horse tile (1/4); reg archer finishes the spear off and promotes; whats left of our SoD returns to horses; move spear from Sneakville over to Shanghai; archer from Shanghai kills spear protecting 1/3 warrior and promotes (3/5); wake spear in Shanghai and have him kill the 1/3 warrior

We can almost get construction from the Inca for Peace but not yet. We can get Philosophy but that’s not very helpful.

IBT: Spear near Shanghai dies to archer (1/3); Beijing horseman -> horseman; Sugar archer -> archer; Americans are building Hanging Gardens; Iroquois finish GLight; Inca move a lot of spears and warriors into our territory

T10: 750BC Archer SoD heals in Horses. MM between Oasis and Hangchow to speed archer build in Hangchow. Vet archer kills redlined archer; the spear protecting the dyes moves over to protect the archer (sick of this tit for tat); rotate archers in Beijing and Sugar up to Shanghai. Fortify Beijing horseman in Shanghai (don’t want to expose him)

Our gpt is up to +31gpt due to some deals expiring. Next player definitely should look at buying construction. We can get it from the Inca in a peace deal but I think they are fairly broken, despite how it looks. They are down to spears and warriors mostly. With all those spears out, hopefully the cities won’t be so full.

Definitely disappointing with that early flip which meant 5 archers lost for nothing. However, imho, press on. With the horse builds coming and the lousy units the inca are producing, we should be able to turn the tide very soon.

MM Beijing next turn to get the horse in 4T and to prevent starving.

static lines

Roster update:
scoutsout
grahamiam <- just played
Knappagh1 ??? <- UP
barbslinger <- on deck
spikeit
gozpel

@ barbslinger: give Knappagh1 24hrs for a got it. if it goes beyond that, pick it up. He hasn't been online @ CFC since that last post of this thread. I will be away tomorrow so don't wait for my post to go ahead :)

Will do tomorrow if Knappagh1 does not show up.

Sorry I couldn't get to this tonight, I'll have to play tomorrow. I'm still stuck at work.

2.0gram – 750BC

Preturn. Oasis is starving to get a horse in 1. We’ll fix it after the horse pops. We also have to raise the lux tax for it. Bejing was also starving.

[1] 730 – Kill a spear with a horse.
IT – Lose the horse.
[2] 710 – Kill 6 units losing 1. I’m moving on the town. We are now strong to Inca.
IT-No losses.
[3] 690 - Retake Tiwakanu with one loss of an archer. We have 4 archers at Olly.
IT – No attacks. Iro and Abe sign peace. Aztecs and Abe sign against Maya.
[4] 670 – Take Ollytambo and send a load of workers back to us. We can now have Philo and construction for peace. I think I will press on. They have to be gassed and we have units left. A scout horse shows he has crappy lands full of jungle so I change my mind. We can get him in 20. Peace for the tech.
IT – A spear and an archer are created. A spear and a horse are ordered up. Sneakville flips to the Iro’s. Bye-by Iron until we get an expansion.
[5] 650 - Set both towns next to Iron mountain to temple. Found Teitsin on Inca border. Move troops around. I also put oasis on temple to be going to palace for GL prebuild after that. Can’t wrestle currency from Iro’s monopoly on it.
IT – Not much.
[6] 630 – Still no deal and monopoly not broken.
IT – Nada
[7] 610 – Still no deal. Tiwakanu finally starves this turn.
IT – The Iro’s declare war. We lose Oasis which had an archer and warrior, our curraugh and 2 slaves.
[8] 590 – Not good since we had the bulk of our troops in the north. I bring troops back towards the south and look for alliances. Again not good. No one will align with us except the Inca and they nearly want all our gold.
IT – We lose Hangchow and Xinjian and a few archers. Aztecs jump on the wagon to give us a 2 front war. Great!
[9] 570 – Kill 2 MW’s and a spear. This is looking very grim. I sic’ the Maya on the Aztecs for 7gpt and 120g.
IT – We lose Sugar. This is going downhill fast.
[10] Swap a temple build to horse. The other is due in 2.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Gram2-550BC.jpg

yikes! looks like those mounted warriors are making mincemeat out of us, not to mention the swordsman. looks tough :(

Roster update:
scoutsout
grahamiam
Knappagh1 ???
barbslinger <- just played
spikeit <- UP
gozpel <- on deck

Gee Barbslinger. I thought the plan was to conquer the Inca and leave us at peace for my turns?! Yikes. I think I soiled my undies. Now go ahead and post the real turn log...

Well...

Okay, I have a new clean pair ready. :D Got it. I probably won't be able to play/post until Thursday evening, as an FYI. I'll let you all know if that changes. Company calls. In the mean time, if there are any ideas here besides hold on for dear life, I'm listening...

BTW, nice advances on the Incans. Our capital is pretty exposed at this point, but at least the new cities up north are potentially good sites. If we ever get the chance to improve them that is.

The situation looks rough, but the fat lady ain't singing yet! I would swap Shanghai over to a vet Spear now and whip the stuffing out of your cities to get troops produced NOW and just play defense for a while without exposing units. For example, the archer outside of horses is likely to die needlessly. If you had used a horse, or Horses was defended by a spearman, you would have been able to let the swordsman attack. I would build a wall in Horses ASAP after the horseman and then just whip horseman as fast as it can accumulate shields. If you guys hold on long enough, you might be able to sue for peace or gas the Iroquois and reclaim your lost lands. That Iron would be really Helpful in your offensives.

Enough speaking of strategy though. What you really need is some luck :D.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HNDY02_luckycandle.gif

Ouch...not looking good. It would be no small feat if this gets back to me...

I like Yom's idea of the whipping if shields look right, 20 or less, for one citizen. Look for peace every turn AFTER your offensive. Good luck. I was really liking our chances before the Iros attacked but having a bunch of 1 warrior defense was too much for them to resist.

Rough spot!

I agree to what Slinger says, whip and play very defensive.

We're not dead yet and for every unit we kill of our foes, we're the winner. As long as we don't lose units, so pull them back!

Sounds like a plan. I haven't needed to whip a city much except to play with the feature. Whipping is not really needed at Monarch and below. But it would have come to me. I like Barbslingers advice - settle for peace after my offensive. :D Now there's encouragement.

Should be able to play tomorrow night...I'll let y'all know if for some reason I can't play it.

[0] 550BC
Up lux rate so Ollantaytanbo doesn't riot.
Shanghai switched to spear, due next turn.
Our one archer is destined to die.

IBT
Well, so far so painful.
Aztecs clear our warrior in the far north with a spear.
Aztec warrior/spear stack enters our territory outside Horses.
Iroquois mounted warriors take Beijing! :(
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Gran20_550BC_Beijing_falls.jpg

Horses built horse -> spear

[1] 210BC
Join slave to Ollantaytambo to rush build archer - should have switched to horse first.
Join slave to Tientsin to rush horse.
Move slave to Tiwanaku for rush next turn.
Shanghai built spear, starts on walls.
MM to max production.
Horses is guarded by all defense one.
Decide to attack weakened sword on our horses to at least hopefully eliminate an attacker.
Vet horse attacks 3/4 sword and loses. Ouch. 3 archers defending Horses now. Fortify and pray.
Aren't the Mayans supposed to be helping us out here?

IBT
The dogpile continues... good thing I didn't strike a deal with America last turn to get their wines.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Gran20_530BC_Dogpile.jpg
And the Iroquois declare on the Maya.

Aztec warrior attacks Horses and loses. Aztec pillage and other stacks come south.
Horses fends off 2 Iroquois swords, but mounted warrior and a sword finish off Horses. Oh and watch an Iroquois MDI move around.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Gran20_530BC_Horses_gone.jpg
Ollantaytambo finishes archer (yech!) and starts spear.
Tiensen finishes horse and starts spear.

Oh and the Iroquois start Sun Tzu.

[2] 510BC
Alright. Our loss is probably inevitable, but I'm not thinking here. I try to clear out an Aztec spear and our horse from Shanghai retreats. I move horse from Tientsin down (using 1 move, stupid) and attack. I win, but its redlined and exposed. I can't make moves like this.
MM Tiwanaku so spear builds next turn - don't need to rush.
Shanghai walls our due in 1, 1 turn too late probably.
Oh yeah, no one wants to chat with me.

IBT
Aztec warrior clears out my sacrificial horse.
Iroquois Mounteds attack Shanghai, kill spear, archer, and leaves horse red-lined. Shanghai survives, I think.
Iroquois sword takes some workers and marches them away.
Tiwanaku builds spear -> archer.
Shanghai walls -> spear

Oh yeah, Mayan and Incan galleys float on by.

[3] 490BC
I move workers outside of Tientsin in. Still can use for rushes.
Shanghai is guarded by a redlined horse. I can rush spear at the cost of two citizens, but it likely won't be able to fight anyway as Shanghai is a bit surrounded. Why bother? Oh yeah, its citizens will be grumpy for the Iroquois! That's why. Sell barracks for the cash.

Well, at least the Americans haven't shown up yet! :lol:

Okay, let's take a look at our situation.
Shanghai - guarded by a red-lined horse. Oh, but wait, we have walls!
Tiwanaku - guarded by two spear.
Tientsin - guarded by two workers and an archer. But Iroquois haven't found it. Yet.
Ollantaytambo - guarded only by an archer and its ridiculous name.

IBT
Aztecs attack Tiwanaku with warriors, one dies, the other kills a spear. And they stop.
Aztecs take Shanghai with a warrior. Oh goody, the Iroquois mounted warriors still have their moves...
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Gran20_490BC_Shanghai.jpg
Oh. Aztecs weren't done, promote our spear at Tiwanaku to elite and then take the city.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Gran20_490BC_Tientsin.jpg
Mayan galley continues sailing. Where's our backup! :mad:
Ollantaytambo falls to a Mounted Warrior...
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Gran20_490BC_Ollantaytambo.jpg
Tientsen archer fends off a sword, but a redlined Mounted warrior takes the city.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Gran20_490BC_Tientsin.jpg

And you know what that means...
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Gran20_490BC_Victory_Not.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Gran20_490BC_Base.jpg

Mao the Pathetic.

I did make a couple of :smoke: moves but overall, I really don't think much else could have been done. We were just hit with overwhelming forces...

Ouch...haven't seen a loss this early in ages...especially in an SG :(. I think you guys just lost due to plain bad luck on the timing of the Iroquois attack and the lack of land, not because of any :smoke: decisions.

I had a feeling. Perhaps we can start one now with less water so we can expand easier and on continents.

Well... if there were any :smoke: moves they probably came from that bonehead who started us off... oop - that was me! :blush: (gawd I wish I'd mined that hill instead of irrigating that second floodplain....)

:lol: well, it's always good to get a poke in the ribs now and then. i think that start was doomed from the beginning scout, a mine here or there wouldn't have changed much. :)

ok, i'll generate a new start on Friday if everyone checks in and is interested. i promise not the f-up the map this time :lol:

You should have seen the replay. There were four land masses. One with one civ. One with 2. One about the same size as ours with 3. And ours with 6! No wonder we were so cramped. Really, we tried our best, but once the Iroquois and Incas crowded us, it was looking to be a long shot. And the Iroquois attack was just well timed.

I'd be up for another if y'all would take this Monarch player along for the ride again. Although having played one demi-god game now :rolleyes:, I may not qualify. ;)

Please do restart. I think this game would be a blast if we get a chance to get 6-8 decent cities down. I'm looking forward to all the horses and I hope the Iros are around somewhere.

Hey - I'm up for it! :crazyeye:

ok, it's late here and i need :sleep: i will restart again tomorrow unless someone on the team would like to generate the start for us and avoid mr. magic fingers here :D

@barbslinger: i'm looking forward to all those horses as well. hopefully we do the whippin' and don't get whipped again :lol:

Please post here where the new start will be I would like to lurk that one as well

Please post here where the new start will be I would like to lurk that one as well
if nobody objects, we'll just use the same thread.

No objections from the peanut gallery. One less thread to subscribe to. Good luck on your map making :lol:

Sounds good to me... Bring on those Iroquois! Let me at'em! :hammer: I'll watch here. Same Civ channel.

ok, i'll post a save or 3 tonight. we'll just keep going in the same rotation, which means gozpel will get the 1st 20-25 and then scoutsout and so on.

Right, I'm ready when you are :)

Please, not 6 civs on our continent again :gripe:

beginagain (note, these maps have the originally intended parameters and have been checked by seedbeast)
Parameters are:
80% water
Arch
Large
all others are Random

I generated these a couple of weeks ago when I realized I screwed up. If we want other settings, let me know and I'll do it again :)

Map #1

map #2 for you (typing this text to use up my 30 seconds)

and what's behind door #3?

perhaps door #4 will allow us to restore our dignity?

and our last bit of poison is...

I like the looks of #4...

#3 or 4 for me.

I picked that piece 'o ****e the last time. I like 3.

Wow 5 maps:
10 bonus resourses
1 lux
1 goodie hut

The next game I play I may want you to pull my starting position for me (as long as the map details get done corectly :mischief: )

my vote is with 3 as well. I like #1 as well but it seems too low in the world.

Site 1 would be the one I'd go for.

I'm glad (at last) to see a SG loss, far too many gamers are taking quite frankly easy options in their gaming. You guys tried to do the same, but someone mucked that up and the result was hilarious :D

Number 4, for the challenge of no settler factory, but still a food-bonus and a lux.

Number 4, for the challenge of no settler factory, but still a food-bonus and a lux.Don't underestimate the power of that wine - it is both a food bonus and a luxury. I think #4 is a potentially powerful start location...

Don't underestimate the power of that wine - it is both a food bonus and a luxury. I think #4 is a potentially powerful start location...
the plain wine will act like a BG (2 food, 1 shield). irrigating it will not bump it up to 3 food.

Vote tally (all votes but not KFC's):
#1: 1
#2: 0
#3: 3
#4: 3
#5: 0

So I flip a coin for #3 or #4...

if i can find one...

3 wins it. gozpel starts us off.

Roster:
scoutsout <- On deck
grahamiam
barbslinger
spikeit <- licking his wounds :)
gozpel <- UP

I got it and play it in the morning.

4000bc - Move worker to cow and settler to GH and we learn Pottery. Spot a sugar that will reach us with expanded borders.

3950bc - Beijing founded -> warrior. Worker irrigates the first cow.
Research Alphabet at min.

Haha, we got our share of marshes again to the west and jungles to the south.

3800bc - Worker done with irrigation, road.

3700bc - Beijing warrior -> warrior. He goes south and spots a wheat on grass. Worker done with first cow, will mine the other.

3650bc - You got to be kidding, Rome plants a city SE of us. Ah well, we get Alphabet and 10g for Masonry and Pottery. Min on Writing.

3600bc - Rome must've popped a hut as a barb attacks our warrior, he survives and promotes to vet.

3500bc - Beijing warrior -> settler. New warrior N. Other warrior W.

3450bc - I rename the warriors so it's easier to write. Bubba (west) finds GH. Bluto (north) spots green borders way to close. We already have 2 civs in our laps and jungles and marshes to fight over.

3400bc - Beijing pop 3 and 30% luxes.

We say hello to the Aztecs, we are up Alphabet and Masonry on them, no trade. There are spices near our borders north.

Switch Beijing to Granary and Bubba tries the GH before a roman warrior takes it and we get a settler! Switch Beijing back to settler.

3350bc - Found another spice in the jungle and will plant a town there with the free settler.

3300bc - Shanghai founded -> worker.

3200bc - Aztecs knows BW and will meet Rome any turn now, so I trade Alphabet for BW and 10g.

3150bc - Beijing settler -> settler. Send him to the northern spices. There's no time for granary here, so I continue with settlers.

Rome also knows BW now.

3000bc - Canton founded -> warrior.

2850bc - Beijing settler -> settler.

2800bc - Shanghai worker -> barracks. Worker will connect the spice.

Rome knows CB.

2750bc - I took 25 turns and we better let Beijing build settlers only for now, so we can grab some spots.

Next player, the settler NW should settle on the spot where the green warrior stands, don't bother about the river as a BG is more important right now.

Continue to plop down cities, especially in the jungle until we have no more room.

Rome is up CB on us and we are up Masonry on the Aztecs.

We have 2 warriors ready to enter foreign territory, do that and find more civs.

We have 124g and 8gpt.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/gramstart.jpg

fast start! looks better than the last one. we ought to try to position our next 2 settlers to seal off our area from aztecs and romans as best as possible. also, the fact that we're getting settlers and techs from GH's mean that poping huts is an absolute must as the settings must be favorable regarding barbs.

Roster:
scoutsout <- UP
grahamiam <- On deck
barbslinger
spikeit
gozpel <- just played

That looks like a really nice opening Gozpel - even if the terrain is kinda crummy...

Plop cities. Check. Trespass and meet other AI. Check. Got it.

Pre-Flight Check - not much to pre-flight.

IBT - AI Warriors move...

Turn 1 (2710)
Settler NW, Bubba N (Trespassing in Rome), Bluto S, Bonzo (Renamed) trespasses into Aztec territory NE

IBT - Monty complains, as does Caesar.

Turn 2 (2670)
Aztecs have acquired knowledge of The Wheel, won't trade.
Nanking founded in the spot Gozpel wanted...starts on a Warrior
Bubba presses NE, Bonzo E, I'm bringing Bluto southward...

IBT - Bluto spots an Aztec Settler pair headed NW out of Tenochtitlan.

Turn 3 (2630)
Bonzo and Bubba scout east, Bubba spots a dark red border, but there's water that will keep us from getting there.

IBT - Some Aztec warriors moving in the marsh...

Turn 4 (2590)
Bonzo moves to a mountain with gems, Bubba N next to a Roman Town
Take lux to 30% (Beijing isn't happy...)

IBT - Beijing equips a settler, Canton Worker>Warrior

Turn 5 (2550)
Move the settler out, trespassing warriors press our luck, lux to 10%

IBT - spice road complete to shanghai, we get "move or declare" from Casear, and Bubba gets a free movement point north.

Turn 6 (2510) Bubba scouts east, finds more coast. We're going to need a stupid Curraugh to meet whoever is over there. Start a Jungle chop at Shanghai

IBT - Nanking equips a warrior, starts on a worker, Rome starts Pyramids.

Turn 7 (2470) settler headed towards bananas.

IBT - not much

Turn 8 (2430) trying to find something other than land's end with these warriors... move workers to build a road north of Beijing to try to grab some of these plains before the Aztecs get them

IBT - just warriors moving around.

Turn 9 (2390)
Tsingtao founded in the jungle, claiming some bananas, starts on a worker.

IBT - A couple of Roman settler pairs show up, one heades west, one headed North.
Shanghai Rax>Warrior
Canton Warrior>Rax (next player can veto)

Turn 10 (2350)
Rome has learned Iron working. Monty will not trade the Wheel.
Continue to probe the fog where I can with our warriors, get a warrior in Beijing for MP duty.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Gram_2_2350BC.jpg

Preflight check: lower lux slider to get an extra 1gpt; Rome up IW and CB, Aztec up Wheel. Tsingtao is in an interesting location as 1S would be an excellent cutout location.

IBT:

T1: 2310BC Road to silks finished, chop the forest

IBT: Nanking worker -> dingy

T2: 2270BC Rome now has IW, CB, and Wheel while Aztecs have CB and Wheel.
Trade: Aztecs: Wheel for 2gpt and 200g. Horses N of Shanghai.

IBT: Beijing settler -> settler

T3: 2230BC Rome settled S of Tsingtao as we left enough space for them to be comfortable down there. Also, another Roman settler/archer pair is NW of Shanghai and I will not be able to beat them to their spot. Beijing settler goes N to settle between the sugars. Bump Sci tax up to 20% to keep the min science run going

T4: 2190BC nada

IBT: Shanghai warrior -> warrior; Canton barracks -> spear; Aztecs are building the Pyramids

T5: 2150BC warrior fortifies in Shanghai; Aztecs now up CB and IW.

T6: 2110BC nada

IBT: Rome extracts 22g from us

T7: 2070BC workers finish with roading and mining the sugar near Canton, move south to help Shanghai

T8: 2030BC Found Sugar Hill -> worker; workers move to horse