HNDY04 - AWD - Grumpy Old Men of AW
A continuation of the series of AW tiny map games HNDY03-AWDG (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=87859)|HNDY02-AWE (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=85204)|by the Grumpy Old Men of Always War. :hammer:

Level: Deity
Variant: Always War
Civilization: Sumeria
Continents: 70% Water
Size: Tiny
Age: 5 Billion [I think :) ]
Temperature: Temperate
Climate: Normal
Barbarians: Sedentary
Rivals: 3 Randomly Selected
AI Aggression: Normal
Victory Condition: All are enabled.
Culturally linked starts: Off
Respawn: Off
Preserve Random Seed: On
Cultural Conversion: On
Patch: 1.15 C3C

EDIT Can't believe I forgot the secret weapon. The lucky candle. :)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HNDY02_luckycandle.gif

Opening Plans
Settle on the hill
Research Masonry for walls -> Math for SoZ
Ideas & Opinions welcome from AW lurkers.

>> Sumeria 4000 BC Save << (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Gilgamesh_of_the_Sumerians,_4000_B_4.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HNDY04_AWD_Summeria4.JPG

Roster:
Handy
Slinger
T_McC
Greebley
Yom

Greebley gave the knock out blow in HNDY03, so we start @ the top of the order in this one.

The Boilerplate
The game Always War. You may only trade when you first meet a civilization, and must declare war on the same turn after trading is complete. If you see a new AI unit, you must make contact & declare war that turn. Absolutely no GPT trades allowed. If you see a new face on F4, you are obligated to declare war that turn (after trading). Players must declare war if they are exploring and see AI units, but are not required to actually attack the units they come in contact with. No peace treaties, ever. You may check F4 as often as you like to spy on the AI's tech, resources, luxuries & city count. We are not allowed to build embassies.

Discuss any move that seems exploitive before doing it with the team. Although there are not too many exploits available in AW, we’ll follow the forbidden blatant exploits banned by GOTM and RBCiv such as no "Free Wealth". Other normal game exploits such as "Baiting the AI" with an empty city to create a kill zone are an AW tradition and are allowed. Also, you ARE allowed to initially keep a city, move a settler to the same spot as the city, and then abandon and immediately resettle. This is considered an exploit in RBCiv rules, but is okay in this AW game. In addition if you need to build a city one square deeper into enemy territory just to move borders to steal a resource, go for it. We may keep or raze cities, and can keep slaves. You may whip captured cities or cities where all citizens are unhappy.

SG Stuff
This is a low pressure SG, so you have 24 hours for an "I got it" and 72 to play. If you need a one day extension, then mention this before the 72 hours are up. Players can work out skips between themselves, just post a message to the thread. If you can't play within 72 total, the team players can switch places, or you can ask for a skip. We will play 10 turns at first, and possibly fewer later (5) if the turns begin to take too long. If you need to go over a turn or two to complete a major campaign, that’s okay too.

Isn't 5 billion more mountainous. It kinda cramps Sumerias agri trait. I would think 3 billion and warm and wet would do us better. This will be a true challenge with MM'ing at a premium. I'm not quite sure not mining the BG's is right though. Wouldn't we want the 3 shield per tile in GA? Is there a despo penalty?

There is a penalty. Mined or unmined they are the same.

Mining all depends on whether we meet someone so we need to be flexible. I think roading the BG first and then going back to mine if we still don't know anyone. If we do meet someone then mining normal grassland is a good idea.

I thought a young world was more mountainous? Is it also more riverous?

Actually I really don't know what the traits do. Wet would be more rivers right? Hopefully normal will be ok and we have some water.

Also it might be worth growing a bit larger rather than making a settler immediately. You get more shields that way early on if you don't make the settler when size 3, but wait for 4-6. Waiting for size 5 might be best. We would want a granary asap of course.

Isn't 5 billion more mountainous.

5 billion is oldest, so it has the least mountains. I guess we should have gone for arid since we can get 2 food from irrigated desert & the AI gets only 1. We'll have to remember that for AWS.

Wet would be more rivers right?

Yes.

Testing out the attach small jpeg file to see if it displays. Cool, it works if the pics small enough. :D

5 billion is oldest, so it has the least mountains.
I thought it was the other way around. At work so I can't check. I thought the mountains wear down over time. I know SirPleb loves 3Bill, wet and warm for max food and early expansion since he mm's and the AI does not.

From the manual: 5 billion years - This option produces an old world, one in which the tectonics have settled down somewhat, allowing erosion & other natural forces to soften the terrain features.

So more erosion turns mountains to hills, hills to grassland. I'm pretty sure Moonsinger, Sir Pleb & the map milkers all play wet, 5 billion, warm since it has the most food and can support the highest population.

All righty! Lets get it on. Hoping for a cow over on the plains. Get your lucky candle out Handy!

I am hoping we do not get germany as our closest neighbor.

I realized I forgot something. We don't have alphabet either so we have 2 techs to get before Mathematics

Not sure if this changes our decision on Mathematics.

Good luck fellas.

I tuned into the last game to get an idea of what an AW game entails, and I was on the edge of my seat the entire time. Well done.

Needless to say, I'll be watching this one w/ much anticipation.

Thanks for your well wishes :)

AWD on a tiny map has been successfully done before so there is hope we can pull it off. A lot will depend on our start and number of neighbors. I think. Two neighbors is bad unless they fight in which case it is good. :crazyeye:

Turn 0 4000 BC
Settler moves to hill
Worker moves to road BG
We spot 3 tobacco farms to help the economy.
See lots & lots of grasslands. :D Even without water we have some decent food tiles

Turn 1 3950
Found Ur, which is much easier to type than the Aztec capitol.
Begin a 5 turn E warrior
Research to Masonry in 36 +0gpt
The worker starts a mine, not a road. Forgive me Greebley. I’m an old dog, and building roads before mines is a new trick.

Turn 2 3900
:sleep:

Turn 3 3850
:sleep:

Turn 4 3800
:sleep:

Turn 5 3750
:sleep:

IBT
Ur – Enkidu Warrior (EW) -> EW

Turn 6 3700
Warrior exploring to the NE

Turn 7 3650
Fresh Water Lake :D
Mine done, road started

Turn 8 3600

Turn 9 3550

Turn 10 3500
Move to road the lux so we can keep research high
Choke? – Discover a 1 tile wide land bridge to our NE. It may just go to a dead end part of out continent. Don’t want contact yet, but may explore out a little further.
Border expansion reveals lots of BG and a good hut to the south. I’ll leave that until we have a spare unit in Ur.

Turn 11 3450
Bump lux tax to 20% so second warrior can explore a little.
Not sure if the continent will expand NE or NW.
Second warrior is moving NW
Masonry in 26
Pulling 4 spt
Ivory road in 3

Turn 12 3400
Wine spotted to the NE past the land bridge. Another lake & plains over here.

Turn 13 3350
There are narrow defensible land bride type areas both the NE and NW.

IBT
EW -> barracks

Turn 14 3300
Road to ivory done.
Palace gets steps.
Lux tax to zero.
Masonry in 17

Turn 15 3250
Exploring – lots of good land down here. If we can determine which side NE or NW the Ai is, we can defend the narrow area.

Turn 16 3200
NW getting more narrow

Turn 17 3150
NW peninsula is a dead end

Turn 18 3100
Get 3 warriors from a hut in the E.

Turn 19 3050
Barbs leave EW alone, so he moves off

Turn 20 3000
EW exploring the east hits a dead end. Perhaps the bridge is N of the wines?

Notes:
Masonry in 11; +0gpt.
We grow in 1 turn, check happiness.
Mine in 1 will give you 5 spt.
I guess you could switch the barracks to granary and we could play the AW farmer gambit. :mischief:

Possibilities
1. We are on a “U” shape and the SW is the low point of the “U” & then turns north.
2. There is a 1 tile land bridge we cannot yet see N of the wines, or perhaps somewhere else such as NNE of the ivory.
3. We are playing as Australia.

3000 bc


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HNDY04_BC3000.JPG

Good luck fellas.

I tuned into the last game to get an idea of what an AW game entails, and I was on the edge of my seat the entire time. Well done.

Needless to say, I'll be watching this one w/ much anticipation.

Thanks! :D So far so good. At least we have food & water in this one.

I realized I forgot something. We don't have alphabet either so we have 2 techs to get before Mathematics

Not sure if this changes our decision on Mathematics.


I saw that on the tech tree, but decided we should go ahead. We need masonry for walls anyway, so it's not a waste if we decide to go for IW. Alphabet, which we also need for Math, let's us build dink boats if we want to cruise our continent. I think the sure thing of Acav is still the way to go. I played one AWE tiny map where there was no iron on the entire continent! SoZ made the difference.

Should we try for the Glib in this game?

One of these days we need to play the Celts. Fun UU.

Roster:
Handy
Slinger <- UP
T_McC
Greebley
Yom - MIA with laptop issues.

I think I'm liking the granary switch. I made a quick dot map to comment on. I know that the two on the lake are 2 tiles apart but they can get over 7 for unit support with aqueducts. That will help. Hopefully I don't meet an AI until after masonry comes in. We should be able to garner some techs from him/her before declaration. I'm thinking the Ai is NE of the wines. I don't think I'll be getting a settler out because it will be Rax after granary unless an AI pops our bubble and comes out of the fog. I'd like to get the pop up a little too. EW's should hold fine and we will have a lot of them at 10s@. The SE EW will clear the balance of the fog NE and W of his current location and then sneak home. I'm almost tempted to go meet the AI so we can get something out of masonry before he researches it. See how it plays out. The NW warrior will go see what lands we have SW of UR.

My take on a dotmap-

Sheesh, I'm checking in already Handy. :rolleyes:

:lol:

I knew if I threw that term around in enough e-mails, we'd eventually use it! GOMAW! (although to be fair, Yom is only 17 or 18. Without him, I'd be the baby of the group!)

On a side note: Every time I see that picture in the first post, I think it says "Fart Luck".

I wouldn't have picked this start, killing our unique trait like that, but if we're alone this will make for an interesting game. Problem (?) is, even if we are on our own continent, Tiny maps tend to break that a Seafaring civ (or anyone who get the GLighthouse) can reach us by Map Making. So do we run to Zeus, or try to set up to build the Great Library?

I'll wait for all comments and play when I get home in around 2 hours. Zeus vs Glib. I would tend to vote Zeus for the units. We may only have 1 AI on our continent with 2 lux showing. We'll have to see how quick we can get some cities out and get one started on prebuild for either.

I lean towards Zeus as well. If we don't find anyone else by the time we research Math (we want Cats anyhow), we can push towards Lit and try for the G.Lib. If we do find someone, we'll probably want to research military techs before Writing.

On the dotmap: I'd try to build on the gold hill, both for defense and because then we're working the trade bonus tile every turn.

Zeus also. There is a chance we can get both as sometimes the GLib is ignored.

One interesting fact: The faster the AI can research the less likely they are to pick Literature as their tech to research. If they research fast enough, then Literature will be least likely tech for them to pick.

So it might be worth getting zeus and then build the GLib switching to FP or HE if we fail.

[Edit: My main reason for choosing this start is that it is the first one. There is something very satisfying about winning a random start rather than waiting for a town with 20 cows. [Edit2: That was an attempt at a joke. I know you meant wait for a river and not 20 cows].

Is this better?

Why not slide #1 another tile SW? Then we don't get 1st ring overlap. City #1 also gets 3 Tobacco in its first 8, which can produce 2f/2s/2t when mined in a Despotic GA.

Lets make #1 there 1 NW of the center tobacky. We probably want to see what is under the fog in the SW before we can see where cities will go there. What do you think of 2 cities on the lake?
Also, I think we should wait on the choke. I don't see us losing the race to it even if it is the 4th or 5th city and getting productive 1st ringers will help more.

Handy04 – 3000BC –

Preturn – Well, diety. So the Ai has about 3 cities and 6 techs by now. :lol: We’re heady for masonry in 11 which I may or may not see. I swap to granary in 9 which will drop to 7, I think, when mine completes. Even lower since a pop ill be added next turn.
IT – Mine completes. We have growth.
[1] 2950 – Granary in 5, growth in 10. I moved endiku to face only one warrior. Moving both EW’s to bust more fog.
IT – zzz
[2] 2900 – zzz
IT – zzz
[3] 2850 – zzz
IT – Road completes.
[4] 2800 – Move to road and mine next bg. Granary will complete with zero waste. Just luck.
IT – Barb attacks, we win without a scratch but no promo.
[5] 2750 – Begin mine.
IT – Granary completes. Set to rax in 7.
[6] 2710 – Masonry in 4 at 70% and breakeven. The AI, if any must be S of us.
IT – zzz. Barbs are fortified.
[7] 2670 – Coasts are coasts. No more land to look at except NE of wine and deep south.
IT – zzz
[8] 2630 – Fog busting.
IT – zzz
[9] 2590 – Same. Can’t move slider for cash.
IT – Masonry>Alpha
[10] 2550 – There is no more land past the wines. All that is left is south and not looking good. We may be alone. If we are perhaps we should go for Glib and prebuild next to the lake. The forests are good shields and we can irrigate for growth and merge workers.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Handy04-2550BC.jpg

Also, disregard my dotmap. I can't see the bg's from the picture at work. :crazyeyes: That's the last time I attempt that.

If we're alone, we should go with a less dense build (not 3 tiles apart) and should DEFINITELY build the GL. I can't imagine how we'd keep up in tech otherwise. We may want to build a couple dink boats after Ur finishes its barracks, settler and escort.

Ya, I am more inclined to go for the GLib as well since we have no opponents. I would make this a top priority; we will be way behind otherwise and the game will be much more difficult

We may want to build a couple dink boats after Ur finishes its barracks, settler and escort. This would be fine for suicides. If there is a path across that the AI can use I would steer clear. It would be nice to expand unencumbered and then use the GL to blast our way ahead.

I am very leary of exploring until we get bigger. A suicide Galley only works if there is NO path across which is hard to judge and unlikely on a tiny map (with GLighthouse). I suspect the AI will cross soon enough to settle our lands.

I would rather not build much military yet. Just basic defense. Lets grow first.

HNDY04 - Won't Anybody Be My Friend?

2550 BC (0)
Let's see ... we're alone on an island. There is one (count 'em, one) bonus food tile on the island, and it is about 5th ring to our capital. We do have two lux and cheap spears so we should be able to keep the populace appeased fairly easily. I think this start calls for a pseudo-gambit, where we push workers/settlers much heavier than military.

Ur is working the proper tiles, and it grows to unhappiness next turn. I think the Barracks will complete in 2, not 3.

2510 BC (1)
Bump lux to 10%, Alphabet in 43 now.

I think I'll build a settler after the Barracks, we need some more unit support.

2470 BC (2)
Would you believe the advisor suggested we build Wealth in Ur? :rolleyes:

I'll go for a settler timed for growth to size 5, and work a different tile to get another light bulb.

2430 BC (3)
Nothing.

2390 BC (4)
Road completes, start on road to new city.

2350 BC (5)
Nothing.

2310 BC (6)
Settler completes, science turned down to break-even.

2270 BC (7)
Settler in position.

2230 BC (8)
Sumer founded, starts the Pyramids. We're going for the Great Library here. City will have 4 BG when cities are founded around it. Adjust sliders and Alphabet is due in 21.

2190 BC (9)
Nothing.

2150 BC (10)
Ur completes an Enkidu. The lack of food is really a pain, the city is still size 3.

Final Notes:
The only bonus food we have are the city squares adjacent to the lake. Those cities should produce workers for us, and improve the lands around the other cities to build military or infrastructure. This is a lousy start, but if we're left alone until Astronomy we can win.

Ur should not produce any workers, its the only place we can reasonably build settlers for a long time. Ur can also build enough Enkidus for the entire empire. I think the cycle will be 3 EWs and a settler in 10 turns.

Once we get a couple more roads and mines on the tobacco tiles, it will be an MM-fest between Ur and Sumer. We don't need to build 14-shield EWs.

On a side note: Every time I see that picture in the first post, I think it says "Fart Luck".

yeah - fart luck, fast luck, we'll take either. :)

Would you believe the advisor suggested we build Wealth in Ur?

I hope this guy is advising the AI also. :mischief:

I'm up for Glib since we are now playing as Australia.

But, Do we want to explore so the AI will start building boats & send units our way? Other wise, no leaders for us. Since they are so bad at naval landings, we may get leaders this way we could use to rush FP & HE. If we get the GLib, we'll get MM and can send an army overseas to pillage the AI. Also, if we make contact early we may get a tech or two from trade. Wait too long & we'll have nothing to offer. Also, if we wait too long, we won't even know where to insert the pillaging army. So, I think exploration & making contact for leader fodder may actually help us here. Thoughts?

EDIT If all 3 civs are on the other continent, a pillaging army sent over on galleys could really tip this game our way. it will take a long time to win, but pillaging would ensure we have an excellent chance @ the win. Seems like even more reason to explore now while we can. I don't fear their naval landings very much given our 1/2 price spears.

If we don't have iron to upgrade our spears, that's gonna get bloody. We'll need a lot of cats. I hope we get either horses or iron. If we have neither, it's going to make it way hard! END EDIT

Roster:
Handy
Slinger
T_McC
Greebley <-UP
Yom - MIA with laptop issues.

Another shot at a dot-map:

I think the next settler should head for the lakeside dot, and start to build some workers. We do need to put two cities on that lake, and may have to squeeze in three. :eek:

In the SW, I'd just as soon burn the desert and leave the hill for mining, but we're only going to get 1 city/turn unless that hut pops a settler. Even on Deity it might be worth going for it, we can hold both high-ground spots with vet Enkidus that don't have anything better to do.

I think we should make the blue dot just north of the lake our GLib location. It is the only one that can grow past size 6 which improves our chance of bringing home the great library. It has a lot of BG so will make a very good wonder town.

[edit: got it]

I think we should make the blue dot just north of the lake our GLib location. It is the only one that can grow past size 6 which improves our chance of bringing home the great library. It has a lot of BG so will make a very good wonder town.


Yes - chop a temple to get all those BG in the city borders & start a pre-build.

I think we should explore after we get 5-6 down. Our prebuild for GL, Zeus rolling, and a core with wines in. Right now I would wait on a dinky. Settlers, WORKERS, enkidus. I would also barb farm with the enkidus and horses when we get them. Leave some fog in the far SE so we can monitor the AI tech pace somewhat and farm some gold.

I like the blue N dot for the GL too for the reasons Greebley mentioned. We can prebuild with both. One for GL and one for Zeus. Palace and pyramids. As soon as we get math we can swap the current palace prebuild to Zeus. It can't have that many shields in it and being above size 6 may help get the GL sooner even with the delay. For the hut, before popping it, make sure all builds are off settlers and military. It will increase the chance of getting a settler or a tech.

If we try to have 2 cities dedicated to building wonders, we'll have 1 worker until our 4th town is settled. Which is an excellent recipe for losing.

The town already settled cannot grow beyond size 6, but it can work 6 BGs at size 6. [3 of these are already mined!] On the inherited IT it can poach a mined BG from Ur, as 7 spt does us no better than 5 spt in Ur. Once we go for the settler out of Ur, the MM is more tricky.

Either way, the important thing is that somebody has to start spitting out workers. It may be worth a Granary somewhere if we can get to 5-turn workers instead of 10.

Yeah, after looking at it, it's probably easier to try for the G.Lib in a lake city. The blue dot can get 5 BG's and a forest at size 6. I may not build a Temple there, though. A) We don't have Ceremonial Burial B) For the same 60 shields we can double our growth rate. We really aren't set up well to merge workers into a Wonder city without it being an all-or-nothing gambit.

Edit: Dumb joke removed

Preturn: As we sort of discussed I change everything. I switch our capitol to a Settler and Sumer to a worker.

My plan is to found our "wonder city" and then plant a city to the North to expand borders rather than going for a temple.
I will probably oscillate science so we stay near 10 gold.

IBT:

2110 BC: Going to explore the last of our isle.

IBT: Settler->Settler

1990 BC: Meet the Barbarian twins

1950 BC: We lose pathetically vs a Barbarian.

IBT:

1910 BC: Found Lagash which can be our wonder city.

IBT:
Sumer: Worker->Barracks

1870 BC:

IBT: Settler->Enkidu

1830 BC:

1700 BC: Madrid builds the Colossus, and I bet I was supposed to stop at 1750 BC. That is a problem with the turns when they are so short.
Build Kish on the gold hill

Notes:
I would concentrate our workers around the wonder city at first simply to keep up with the growth of the city. Kish does not need immediate improvement as it is going for another worker to help get our economy going.

We have a nice number of BG!

Good Luck Yom (your comp is currently working right?)

Here is a picture of our land. I am going for the famous AW farmers gambit.

Last I heard Yom's CD was still not working. I saw him post that it was broken in a PTW SG he is in. If Yom misses too many rounds it may be best to drop from this game & pick it up later. It's hard to come into the middle of an AW game.

I can't play until Satruday night, so Slinger - if you want to swap with me & play on Friday that's fine. Either way I plan to pick it up Saturday night.

Roster:
Handy <- up Slinger
T_McC
Greebley
Yom - MIA with laptop issues.

Not sure about the Barracks in Ur. Do we need another troop producer right now? I'd think about a Granary, so we have a 2nd potential source of settlers and a less-painful place to build workers.

Watch for the last-turn to growth trick at Lagash. You may be able to work the forest for a cheap shield. (Likely not this time, but maybe on the 2->3 transition.)

Not sure about the Barracks in Ur. Do we need another troop producer right now? I'd think about a Granary, so we have a 2nd potential source of settlers and a less-painful place to build workers.

(Likely not this time, but maybe on the 2->3 transition.)

Roger that. Let's switch to granary.

Ya, looking at it I agree also - a granary does seem better. We have a lot of land to settle.

One thing to watch out on TMcC's trick; You want to do it earlier rather than later. I went to do exactly that, but realized the mine was finishing the next turn and so there was no point. You need to do it at size 2 before the 2nd mine is built to gain anything.

I've temporarily gotten my Conquests CD to work (it's still on/off) and can get it now. That is, unless Handy is already playing.

Edit: Plus, school's out, so I'll have more time to play :D.

Yom, if you can play tonight Handy can play tomorrow night and I can play Sunday morning or late Sat night. If you can't play tonight I'll play it tonight. I'm right in the middle of COTM. Man did I pop a lot of tech huts. I'm like 6 techs up. Arabs are gone and heading for the souther 2. I'd like Sumeria to build some wonders first though.

I'm a bit tired tonight, so I'll play this tomorrow around noon.

I have been thinking about it and I think going out exploring is a bad idea. It means we would have to build up Military instead of expanding and would also trigger our golden age earlier making it less valuable. Ideal would be to meet them when we have the GLib so we can instantly switch to monarchy. Then our Anarchy would be during the time before the AI main attack. If we worked to put off an Enkidu win until arnarcy ended we would win big. Even if our anarchy overlaps with the GA by a bit it is still a win. Otherwise you don't get 3 shields from mined BG

Turn 0 - Change barracks in Sumer (I assume this is what T_McC meant by Ur) to a granary.

Turn 1 - I road tiles before I mine just in case we meet an enemy on my turns.

Turn 2 - Ur:Enkidu->Enkidu

Turn 3 - Nothing

Turn 4 - Ur:Enkidu->Settler

Turn 5 - Alphabet comes in, set research to Math in 20 at -1 gpt.

Turn 6 - Nothing

Turn 7 - I would have used the growth trick, but the BG mine just finished, making it useless.

Turn 8 - Emphasize production somehow selects a BG over a forest on Lagash's growth, essentially losing a shield. Settler due in 1 (as is Ur's 100 expansion, which will pop the goody hut).

IBT - Pray for a tech and... barbs...

Turn 9 - Ur: Settler->Enkidu. With the Barbs showing up, I decide to send the settler up North.
I cover a mined grassland with an enkidu to prevent the barb warriors from moving onto it and pillaging.

IBT - Barbs fortify in place.

Turn 10 - Kish: Enkidu->Barracks.

I left all units unmoved this turn so that you can move the settler West if you want, or keep sending it north with the Enkidu from Kish as defense.

Edit: Btw, someone should make a dotmap including our Western and Southern lands.

Edit2: One more thing...I would keep the workers improving Lagash to get Zeus done faster and immediately start it on a prebuild for TGL. With all BGs mined, a forest and 2 mined plains, it can make 16 spt before corruption (probably 13 or 12 after).

One more Edit: I just realized that we can only have 2 mp in despotism, so we will need very high luxes to keep Lagash happy at high populations and it won't complete Zeus as soon as we discover Math, so maybe we should start a prebuild in Kish or our next city.

Lets build the GLib before Zeus. The reason is that we have exclusive control of the Ivory and are close to guaranteed to get it (Lux appear only on one landmass).

Missing out on the GLib is both possible and painful.

Yeah, I thought we decided GL was the build? Did I miss a post?

I thought Yom was going for Zeus first... I just quickly scanned his post though, so i may have been mistaken.

Also the point that noone else can build zeus but us occurred to me just now and is a strong reason on the order we chose.

Yes, we should be building the Great Library. We may be cutting it a little close by researching Math first. There are 65 turns on our Palace pre-build, and we are 15 turns away from Math. Writing would take 20 turns from scratch, and then we need Lit. Our pre-build will go down in turns as Lagash grows, so I fear we must dump the 5 turns on Math and switch to Writing now. Our research time will go down as well, but I cannot say when our Palace moves to 400 shields (it's currently 300). This is definitely a gambit.

On the MM, Lagash can steal us another couple of arrows by giving up a shield it is losing to corruption anyway.

Sumer needs to be looked at for tile usage. It will be an every-turn juggling act between Sumer, Lagash, and Ur for who uses what tiles. Ur doesn't need more that 5 spt, but we want to maximize trade and the speed at which the other two cities complete their builds.

Kish should be building workers, not regular Enkidus. We don't need any city other than Ur building military so long as barbarians are our only opponents. We are already in a hole, to get out of it we need to maximize our improved tiles. We do that by building lots of workers.

I think the settler should go on the lake, 2 SE of Lagash. That spot allows the city center to produce 3 food instead of 2. The new city should also be building workers. It should be possible to complete a worker every 7 turns. The extra Enkidu in Lagash is a fine escort. The regular Enkidu in Kish should flesh out the coast in the SE. Those cities won't be that far from our Capital, so might be useful eventually.

My fault on the prebuild. I remembered talking about going for Mathematics and Zeus so I assumed the prebuild was for that.

Edit: As to Kish building regular enkidus...I'm not sure how that happened. I didn't change its build from turn 0, and in the screenshot Greebley posted it shows Kish building a worker :confused: ...

@Yom - I kind of figured that happened. Greebley saved the game, and then did a final round of MM. The EW was the Governor's suggested build.

Here is a DM of the south. Some dots could change if we see bonus food in the sea tiles. Red dot is where I think the active settler should go, and Pink squares complete our 1st ring. The blue dots are longer-term projects, maybe after we secure the wines in the East.

I don't like our capital being size 2, but I can live with it. We are on a 10-turn cycle of 2 EWs and a Settler timed with growth to size 4. We could get more EWs if Ur is allowed to grow, but we can't get settlers any faster.

Sumer may be on a 5-3 Settler cycle, maybe without an EW mixed in. Have to check the MM possible after the Granary is built. In any case we should be able to get at least 2 settlers and 2 vet EWs every 10 turns, which should be enough military until we meet someone. The eastern pink square can become our 2nd military city, it has access to 4 BG upon founding, while the other new cities should concentrate on training workers. If we are isolated until the other civs get Astronomy, we should be the largest civ in the game upon contact, and have a late GA with an UU that is available from the start of the game.

The dot map should hedge a little towards the wine. At diety it will save us some cash if we can get over there and get that canal town.

The dot map doesn't extend towards the wines because (A) It wouldn't all fit in one picture, and (B) We should settle out first ring completely before reaching for any second ring sites. We aren't in competition with anyone for the wines, and we don't need them until a city gets to be size 5.

The other problem is that the map gets a little awkward around the wines. One cannot get a single city that both serves as a canal, and claims the wines without a border expansion.

I got it. I'll switch research to get us started to Lit for Glib.

Strange - the Kish build is barracks in the save, but the screenshot shows worker. I switched it.

Pre-Turn
Switch research to writing.
Switch Kish from barracks to worker.
Regular EW in Kish has nothing better to do than stroll around our coast on a whale watching expedition, so off he goes.
The settler heads towards the lake’s red dot location.

IBT
Ur – EW – EW


Turn 1 1425
Workers start mines.
Settler arrives @ red dot.
Found Umma –> worker -> I love these Sumerian city names. Easy to type. :D
Never knew Umma Thurman was named after a Sumerian city. :lol:

Turn 2 1400
Sumer & Ur swap some tiles.

Turn 3 1375
Not much.

IBT
Ur – EW – settler. This will bring us back down to size 2 when he pops.
Babylon finishes Pyramids

Turn 4 1350
Sumer & Ur swap tiles again

Turn 5 1325
Not much

IBT

Turn 6 1300
Zero

Turn 7 1275
Mines complete.

Turn 8 1250
Lagash will need some lux tax soon.

IBT
Ur – settler – EW
Settler will move towards T_McC’s eastern Pink dot. (South of Ur)

Turn 9 1225
Writing in 9 +1gpt
Prebuild has 36 turns left on a

IBT
Summer – granary – settler
Kish – worker – worker
Umma – worker – worker

Turn 10
Ur & Sumer swap tiles to get the settler in 6 and grow in 6. Ur's EW is in 2.

Notes:
Lagash will need lux tax in 2 turns.

Roster:
Handy
Slinger <-UP
T_McC
Greebley
Yom - laptop working again.

We're sliding along here.

Took a peek at the save:

The MM is messed up between Ur and Sumer. Ur should be getting 5 spt, every turn, or we'll either lose one of the Enkidus, delay the settler, or possibly take our capital to size 1.

Keep an eye on Umma, you can build workers in less than 10 turns, but you need to swap tiles on the appropriate turn.

There are barbs on one of the potential canal tiles, I propose founding 1 city a tile SE of the barbs, on the lake. It is still a canal. A second city can be founded NE of the lake on the desert. That will claim the Wines. Might as well take all the 3-food tiles we can get.

After that we can found a city south of the Wines and start the FP.

Then after we get Lit we can research a tech so we can build something besides Workers, EWs, Settlers, and Granaries. Temples would actually be nice, as would finding out if we have any resources on this island.

It shouldn't come up on Slinger's turn, but just to remind myself: We may need to run a scientist or two to get Lit on time with our Pre-build, unless our Palace goes to 400 shields.

We're sliding along here.

Is sliding along a good thing or a bad thing?


Took a peek at the save:

The MM is messed up between Ur and Sumer. Ur should be getting 5 spt, every turn, or we'll either lose one of the Enkidus, delay the settler, or possibly take our capital to size 1.

Oops. I swapped the tiles to get a settler in Sumer in 6 instead of 8, which caused the EW in Ur to go from 2 to 3 turns total (2 left).

I was thinking sooner was better than later on getting the settler out of Sumer. I was gunning for Sumer to grow the turn the settler came.

Sliding along means I really can't say whether we're doing good or bad. I think we will be able to build the G. Lib, but if anyone pops by in the next ~40 turns, we only have Enkidus to throw at them. The picture will be much clearer once we get to Lit, and can at least aim for Warrior Code to build an offensive unit. (Or Math, for our free 3.2.2s). I'd actually go for a tech or two before Math, and let Lagash pre-build with the Palace again, once we get the G. Lib.

Sooner is better, but Sumer cannot replace the lost population in less than 10 turns (and I think it can pull more than 3 spt at size 2). Bottom line is that if we don't delay two turns at Sumer, we may end up having to delay two turns at Ur.

Actually, taking another look at it: Ur and Sumer can split 3 two-shield tiles between them. Lagash must have the other two-shield tile. We could get a settler in 6 at Sumer, then a 7-turn settler in Ur, but the MM has to be watched. Possible after the worker finishes mining the tile NE of Sumer.

So do what you want, but don't drop Ur to size 1! :)

Lurkers comment, yet again...

I think you guys are just so used to being so far behind, fighting so many people that you don't know what to do with a... gasp!... builders game. Have fun.:)

Lurkers comment, yet again...

I think you guys are just so used to being so far behind, fighting so many people that you don't know what to do with a... gasp!... builders game. Have fun.:) :lol: I was having trouble with an earlier practice session wondering what cathedrals were for. this is definately a twist on our usual game. The diety AI are building culture I am sure waiting to hit the waves. It will be a new twist. Playing now.

Handy04 – 1200BC –

Preturn – Looks like the turn count is slightly messed up. I’ll play until 1000BC (8turns). Have a loo at Ur to get it back to 5spt. On Umma, it needs 18f to grow and we’re making 3 fpt which is 6 turns. The food box does not empty, so after a few workers it will be up to 2pop. I will keep a special eye on it for that correct turn to swap tile though. Lagash has 91 shields making 6spt with that rising over the next few turns. The workers will be done in 4 which should raise it to 7, perhaps 8. @ 7spt we are 44 turns from GL. At spt 39. Kick up the sci-sli a notch to get writing in 7. I know the initial math does not work out but the last turn it gets turned down and even the last 2-3 turns if you monitor it. We’ll see. I think Ur is making an MP for Lagash and will continue to make necessary MP. The only other option is walls or wealth. I see Sumer is working the non roaded tobacky. Going roaded gives writing in 6 but we will be down to 2 pop if I do this. Hey, the food box does not empty. It will be right back where it was in no time and writing sooner.

IT – EW from Ur. Enkidu for now.

[1] 2004AD – having a beer. 1175 on an island. Wondering how I will survive. It would be better if we just could keep this island to ourselves and lay on the beach all day. Why would you need defense if you knew no one else? Slide the settler over for the bg spot. Lagash goes on the forest, with growth in 1. We’ll starve it if we gotta. The GL is ours. Even with time to lit at 50 at min we are running 90%. It should be well under the 29 turns to palace.
IT – Spanish complete the Oracle. No builds.

[2] 1150 – The new MP pulls into Lagash for the growth and it does not help. However, raising the lux tax it stays at –3gpt and cures Lagash. Now to find some cash. BTW, Lagash went to 7, not 8. Bad-tiber, now named Bad-time-4-AI plops and starts another worker in 10. The EW escort takes off to MP somewhere. Actually inviting the barb in for farming.

IT – Enkidu in Ur and set to wealth for the moment.

[3] 1125 - The new mine in Lagash is complete and still we are at 7spt, damn. I think a road is order due to cash strappedness. New word?! Play chess with the barb to try to get him off the hill. Let’s see. Keep Ur at wealth. We’re at 10g @ -2spt set like that. Next settler due in 5 and growth in Ur next turn. The Umma swap is not yet from what I can foresee.

IT – Complete a road to get to –2gpt. Wait, we’re not using that road.

[4] 1100 – Kill that doggone barb losing 1hp. Mp pulls into Lagash and lux-sli goes down a bit to give us 1gpt with 8g in the kitty. I thnk that was my bad cause’ I just read that despo MP is 2 tops. I was running an extra 10% lux. My bad. Fortunately looking at the sliders I elect to get writing in 3 with an extra sci-sli nudge and we are at –2gpt with 8g. Umma goes to worker in 3 and growth in 3 just like T_McC suggested, that was easier than I thought. Those food 3fpt can be tricky. GOTTA watch the box. Move lagash to the forest to get Palace in 23. Writing in 3.

IT – Road in Lagash completes.

[5] 1075 – Writing in 2 and we’re at –2gpt with 6g. Ur gis still on wealth. Lagash won’t be helped until wine, so we can lower the lux tas and the other cities are fine for a while. I would hate to lose a granary, it’s happened. That’s random, the way the game takes units, IMO. Ur grows in 4. Sumer a settler in 2 with growth in 2. Umma, worker and growth in two too. Just checked the space race, all even.

IT – A road completes.

[6] 1050 – I’m going bonkers trying to get 1 gpt more. It does not matter where I put the guys and gals, it is still –2spt and when I go EW in Ur it is –3spt. Fortunately we pick up +3gpt on writing coming in next turn. That is a frikin’ relief. Time for a abeer swill. { 30 second pause having aswill and looking at our lands, thinking about the beach I could build 1 NE of Lagash) That was fun. ----- Some more workers go to build a GL. Back on EW in UR. We have a settler and a worker due next IT. That will kill my gpt. +1 on worker and one less pop…. Does nothing except less 3 shields on initial inspection..

IT – Umma completes a worker and Sumer a settler.

[7] 1025 – I move 2 EW from Lagask, out of 4 to deal with the barbs on the wine/choke hill. Worker moves to road forest, maybe. Settler goes to desert spot. Lit in 23, palace in 20 at +2gpt. Moving sci-sli 1 notch gets lit in 17. I think we will make it, especially after founding of new town. I’m glad I didn’t run for wines like my gut told me.

IT – Ur-EW> Wealth. Kish-Wkr>Wkr.

[8] We’re at4g and-1gpt and that is that. I’m hoping the barbs attack. They may take some prodding when you have 3 there in the forest.

QSC Diety – 6 ities – 2 granaries and a rax with a settler for 7 next turn.

I really didn’t know what to do about the cash. Wealth seemed the only option.

Lurkers comment, yet again...

I think you guys are just so used to being so far behind, fighting so many people that you don't know what to do with a... gasp!... builders game. Have fun.:)

I appreciate lurker comments. :)

Ya, I think this is the first builder game we have had together....

One disadvantage to having such a low pop capitol is the lack of gold. I don't think switching to wealth is that bad of an option in that case though you want to avoid it if you can. I think we will be doing ok if we can get the GLib, but will have a really hard time if we do not. We can assume the 3 AI are all trading techs and fairly advanced.

Has the Great Lighthouse been built yet? We may get contact shortly after it is built.

I think the solution to our problems is building more settlers and founding more cities. Sure the initial pop. lost will hurt a bit, but the new cities would quickly grow since we're agr. and produce cash. Plus, each city raises the amount of free troops we get by 4.

I got it and already played.

HNDY04 - This Wasn't Boring.

1000 BC (0)
Well, this is a mess. We have 2 cities running Wealth. Let's see what I can do about that. Nothing at the moment, except slow the pre-build to 22 turns to gain a buck. Next turn when the latest settler founds, we'll do something about the situation. Bad-Time swapped to Barracks, it can be a solid military producer (4 BG's).

In 3 turns Kish will run a scientist, which should balance things out a bit.

We have 1 settler active, and 0 in production. That will also change.

IT - Two barbs attack and we have an elite Enkidu.

975 BC (1)
Found Agade on the desert square where the settler stood. This completes our first ring. I'm going to reach for the Wines now.

Lit in 14, Palace in 21. The Palace can be sped up, but for now I'll stick to allowing Lagash to grow next turn. We'll have to raise the lux tax, but it'll be worth it.

Science down to 60%, Lit in 18. This will be a juggling act for all of my turn.

Sumer and Ur both go to Settlers. Sumer is timed to growth in 8, Ur is also timed for growth in 5.

950 BC (2)
Uhh, this is significant. Note a Spanish settler pair in the middle of our Eastern wing. Sending all 3 active Enkidu to intercept.

Lit in 16, Palace in 17. 5 gold, losing 2 gpt.

925 BC (3)
Lit in 19, Palace in 16. Kish will run a scientist for 7 turns. I'll let Umma grow and run a scientist there for 3 turns. I repeat, this will be a constant juggling act.

Oh crap. We're going to have a Despotic GA here, let's see what MM we can do then ...

Contact Spain. Who is in a GA(?, Colossus + Oracle, may already be over), and has the Great Lighthouse. They are already Furious with us? We actually have more cities than Izzy, and that will only get worse for her. No deals to be made, declare war. Now please found a city so I don't have to attack into a forest.

IT - They don't found, and the chase is on!

900 BC (4)
Lit in 17, Palace in 15.

IT - Zaragoza founded.

875 BC (5)
Zaragoza razed, and our GA is started. :( I really thought we could get into Monarchy before this happened, but the only Seafaring civ in the game got the Great Lighthouse.

Now to re-MM.

Have to give up 2 trade for 1 turn in order not to drop Sumer to size 1.

Lit in 8, Palace in 12. We will just about finish the Great Library during our GA.

850 BC (6)
Ur pops settler, goes to EW. I think we want 2 in every city, and a few spares.

Umma gets a temporary scientist, Lit in 6. Oh, and somewhere back there we got the FP message.

825 BC (7)
Lit still in 6. Umma build worker, starts Granary. Have to get some infra during the GA.

800 BC (8)
Settler moving into position for Wines. Lit in 5, Palace in 9.

775 BC (9)
Sumer builds Settler, goes to Barracks. Lit in 4.

750 BC (10)
Erech founded, claims Wines. The other settler has an EW escort and is headed for the plains tile SW-W of Erech. That is both on the lake and a canal.

Lux up to 30% for Lagash. Lit in 3 at -3 gpt with 19 in the bank.

Final Notes:
After Lit completes, I would strongly urge we research WC. We need some offense if the Spanish ever decide to land some troops.

The Palace pre-build expires in 6 turns. We have 238 shields in and make 12 spt. That means ... 14 turns until we complete the G. Library. Once Lagash completes the Library, it can go right back onto a Palace pre-build for Zeus. Next couple of leaders have decisions to make on how quickly we turn to Math. It would certainly be possible to hit it right after WC, as we can always use cats. Just so long as we have the tech before we go much over 200 shields in Lagash.

Our GA is not really speeding up the builds in Lagash, so we're about 35 turns from the SoZ. Fight a holding action until then, pop a leader for an instant FP in the East, and we're golden. We'll be backwards as all hell until someone else gets Astronomy or Printing Press. The advantage to having 3 AI on a single continent is that we should dwarf any one of them. We have room for about 10 more cities on our island, and no one else should be able to keep even one.

Good turns T_McC. Too bad on the despotic GA, but there was nothing we could do. Do you think you could post a map, and what techs does Isabella have that we don't?

Here's a map of the Eastern half of our empire.

The blue dot is where the active settler should go. The red dot is a good location for our FP, and the pink dot keeps good spacing.

Izzy is still in the AA, so that's not too bad. I can't remember whether she had Lit or not. Highly unlikely as our meeting did not reduce the turns to discovery. I didn't mention it in my log, but the ToA completed late on my turns, and there wasn't a cascade to the Great Library.

Emphasize roads during the GA. There are two groups of 3 workers, so they can do a tile every other turn. We have two additional workers and one in production. It is awkward to build workers or settlers during our GA, but watch for the opportunity to time a settler with growth to size 6 in Ur. The other things to emphasize are irrigating plains and mining regular grass.

Remember: Every-turn MM. :)

Good turns T. Yeah, that cash juggling act was a pain. Bummer about the Spanish showing up. Fortunately they are in the AA so we are probably the first folks they have met. Unlucky for them though. It seems the GL is in the bag now. Since the Spanish came from the East, we should head west for another contact when prepared. Top priority now is the wines to lower lux and I completely agree with T, Warrior Code to have a semblence of any kind of offensive unit.

Well it's about time this game got interesting. :D

Roster:
Handy
Slinger
T_McC
Greebley <-UP
Yom

And, on the bright side, we didn't have a 1 city GA. :thumbsup:

ok, I got it. Will play tomorrow I hope.

:bump: Any progress Greebley?

I was pretty tired last night and decided it would be unwise to play this. I will get to it tonight. Sorry for the delay.

No problem Greebley, it hasn't even been 72 hours yet. And I'd cut you slack anyway. Thanks for letting us know though. :D

Preturn:
My only changes are Erech which I switch from a Reg Enkidu to Walls and Kish to a Settler. We have a decent number of Workers and I would like to get our island settled.

IBT:
Agade: Worker->Walls

730 BC: This turn only I hire 2 scientists. This gets us Lit next turn.

IBT: Lit->Telephone Sanitization (we would go for the wheel if we could decide what color it should be)
Hmmm... maybe warrior code would be better. We can get it in 4 at +1 gold
Ur: Endkidu->Settler

710 BC: GLib in 12. I may try to speed it up.
That hill next to the blue dot is tempting for several reasons, but I decide to go with TMcC's site. We may want to but a unit on the hill so that the AI doesn't land on it. So, I build Isen on TMcC's blue dot

IBT:
Bad-time: Barracks->Enkidu (our forest chop got a BG too :) )

690 BC: We connect the Wines and can lower lux. We are now pulling in 12 gpt.

670 BC: Zzzz

IBT: A boat Is the the same peoples we have seen? Yep, its Spain. (Had to look up who we had met). She looks distinctly Medieval.
Sumer: Barracks->Enkidu

650 BC: I put some units between cities in case of landings. I also merge in 2 workers to speed the GLib by 2 turns Spain does not have Literature.

IBT: Mausoleum of Mooses is built by the Spanish. The spanish boat drops off a dread Archer
Ur: Settler->TSanitizer err... Archer ... Really. You can trust me :D
Bad-time: Enkidu->Archer

630 BC: I put another unit in Kish to try to hold off said dread archer. One good thing... We have the FP to fall back on if the GLib fails.
Ok, I am going to trust to luck. Science is turned off completely. Sumer is switched to a Curragh. We can always boost science and spend the money created if we so desire.

IBT: The Archer kills our Vet Enkidu. Spanish complete the Hanging Gardens.

610 BC: A regular Enkidu attacks the archer and Promotes to Vet. I switch Kish to walls if that is going to be their point of attack.
I look at F7 and someone is constructing the Great Library!
Oh, wait thats us :blush:

Spain is not constructing any wonders. Am I wrong and she does not have Construction?

IBT: Sumer: Curragh->Curragh
Uh oh, the Spanish just started the great Library! Will the library slip through our fingers by mere turns? Only four more.

590 BC: Off got the Curragh...

IBT: Noone builds the Great Library.
Ur: Archer->Archer.

570 BC: All is quiet.

IBT:
Sumer: Curragh->Curragh (it can build one every 2 turns during our GA)

550 BC: Still quiet. The potential FP settler is near his spot.

Notes:
Only 2 turns to the GLib! Other civs have the tech and someone could have cascaded to the GLib and would build it this interturn. It has happened before. We can't even switch to Zeus without math.

We need the FP (and Monarchy). Corruptions is very high (it being a tiny map and all).

Here is a picture of our fine empire:

Why are we not researching?

We only know 1 civ, so it is fairly likely the G.Lib won't give us anything until someone besides Spain gets Astronomy.

After the Library completes, Lagash can go right back onto the Palace for the SoZ.

I'd assume we are intending to try suicide Curraghs until we meet someone else. We should still be researching until we do make more friends, excess cash won't do us much good in Despotism, and we could use Horses and Swords (and Monarchy, and Math ...).

We should be able to get math in the same 13 turns it would take to research it by crossing the ocean. I didn't think it worth wasting the cash on it. We should be a monarchy in 20 turns and can use the cash then.

What is a telephone sanitizer your building?

I look at F7 and someone is constructing the Great Library!
Oh, wait thats us

:lol:

Is a telephone sanitizer a worker? :)

Roster:
Handy
Slinger
T_McC
Greebley
Yom <<< UP Yom - let us know if the laptop is up.

Archer actually. TMcC was so emphatic about going for Warrior Code :wavey:, I had to go for some other tech.... Telephone Sanitizers is from Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy (radio version only? - was it in the books?) and seemed like a fine tech. :D

(In actuality, I agreed with him on the tech choice).

I really scared myself with the library building for several seconds.

:lol: That telephone sanitizer confused me too. I doubt anyone will get the Glib. before us, we've been building a long time and Lagash is a pretty strong producer. They would have had to have started in their Capital a long time ago and not gotten any wonders to snatch it from us.

So, before I play my turns, do we all agree on not researching or should we just research Math?

Great, I've become a living joke. :cry:

:lol:

Never read the Hitchhiker's Guide (I even have the 5-in-1 book), but somehow I knew the Telephone Sanitizer was from there.

Agreed not to research. We'll meet someone else soon, we'll just keep launching men to their death until they make landfall. Just think of it as sending the Irish to Australia. :cringe:

I think the polynesians did it in real life. I wonder how many they lost?

And the king spake and said, "Send boats to all corners of the earth. Bring back knowledge with which we can fill the greatest of libraries ever built by man. Let no written work remain unknown." And so it was.

Personally if I was a curragh captain, I would slip the Spanish galley captain a few bucks, go camp on some island for a few months, and then victoriously row back when the galley returned with the books.

When I played, 2/3 of the time was spent playing the game and 1/3 of the time was figuring out how to modify the image so it said "Telephone Sanitizer" under production and looked fairly reasonable.

Turn 0 - Hmm...I notice a lot of roaded, but not mined BGs in the south around Bad-Tibra.
On the diplo front Spain is up a TON of techs :o!
Namely: The Wheel, Ceremonial Burial, Iron Working Mathematics, Philosophy, Code of Laws, and Map Making.

IBT - No AI builds a wonder so TGL will be ours next turn
Bad:Archer->Archer

Turn 1 - Found Akshak, set to Curragh. I send out our first Curragh and we find an island (marsh poking out). If it survives, we may get contact soon.

IBT - Ur:Archer->Settler
Sumer:Curragh->Curragh
We get The Great Library
Lagash:TGL->Barracks
Agade:Walls->Enkidu

Turn 2 - Our Curragh didn't sink :D. It reveals blue borders nearby: presumably the Germans (according to f10).
Hmm...now that I look at Isabella more carefully, I realize she's not wearing her AA garb! If she's in the Middle ages, the other AIs probably are as well. Let's hope we have horses to get Knights.

Turn 3 - Whoah, forgot how much Culture TGL gives as Lagash already expands its borders. We almost reach the Germans' borders but fall short. The Marsh Island looks like it would be a good beachhead in the future.

IBT - Sumer:Curragh->Archer (I feel we have enough curraghs for now).

Turn 4 - We contact the Germans, who are still Ancient, but are up every visible tech. They have no gold to trade for Literature, so I declare war.
Wow! Corruption is killing us in the West. Erech loses 7 of 8 shields to corruption! I hope we get Monarchy next turn. We may want to build the FP soon as well. Also, I realize Lagash can complete a barracks after Zeus before the construction of the first AC, so I switch it to the palace.

IBT - A spanish Galley darts out of the Fog near Sumer.
We learn: The Wheel, Ceremonial Burial, Iron Working, Mysticism, Mathematics, Philosophy, Code of Laws, Map Making, Horseback Riding, Polytheism, Monarchy :D, and Construction! That was the most techs I've ever gotten from TGL at once.

Turn 5 - Good news :D (and no, I did not just save a bunch of money on my car insurance) - We have Iron and Horses The Horses are near Lagash, already hooked up, and the Iron is in the 2nd farthest Hill in the West.
I notice Agade is building Enkidus without a barrack, so it's switched over immediately.
I decide to try and run a blockade of the Spanish Galley. Its long range allows it to reach as far as the hill next to Agade. I use some Unit shuffling to cover the hill with an Enkidu (thank goodness for Cities spaced 3 tiles apart).

I'm posting a save here for now. I'll finish my turns tonight. The question we need to consider is: Do we revolt now or after or GA, or maybe after we get Zeus? Sorry, no pictures as my laptop only saves in .bmps, which are too large to post (attachments are limited to 500 KB).

I think we should revolt right away. Noone else should have ivory so we won't lose Zeus and as you say the corruption is terrible. After we are a monarch I think we will want both Zeus and the FP. The spot TMcC suggested seemed pretty decent.

The reason for no mines was the GA. We can go back and add them without requiring extra worker turns as the road is already there.

You may want to start irrigation grasslands during the Anarchy period. The biggest thing slowing us down is our slow growth and we don't need the towns to be at max shields at the moment. After we grow we can remine.

Whereever we decide the FP should go we should start dedicating workers to it. I think we want it up as soon as we can to remove the corruption.

Firstly, revolt once the GA ends. I think the GA will end on turn 6. We need the extra food more than we need the unit support.

Agreed that we are the only ones w/Ivory, so our free Wonder can build after the revolt. Doesn't hurt to put Lagash on the Palace to start building already. Lagash is our only city capable of building Wonders. After Zeus completes, Lagash should build a Temple and a Settler to get back down to size 7. (It may not need the Temple since we can use a 3rd MP.) We can reduce the lux tax by 20% that way, our economy will well and truly suck once we hit Monarchy.

If we have money, the city that will build the FP should first get a rushed Courthouse.

Turns Continued...

Before I hit end turn, I notice that GA production has ended and Lagash needs the lux tax upped to stay happy.

IBT - Spain drops off 2 reg. Archers North of Sumer, next to our fortified archer. The Galley then loses 3-1 to our curragh.
Our GA has ended.
Ur:Settler->Archer (Argh!, thanks to the end of our GA we can't make the Archer this turn in Sumer by 1 shield, rearrange to avoid wasting shields).
Bad-Time:Archer->Archer
:mad: Lagash riots despite me having adjusted lux to make it happy! Does anyone know how this came to be?
MM and get Umma's Granary to come in this turn, set to Archer

Germans complete The Great Wall (bah, and they're pretty close, too bad Conquests changed its effects).

Turn 6 - Our Telephone Sanitizer becomes Elite after killing a reg. archer and is now 3/5.

I revolt and draw 8 turns of anarchy. Harsh.
Lagash isn't even near happy now, we're going to have to alternate between rioting and starving (actually, since it has no buildings other than TGL, is it possible to keep it rioting?)
The rest of our cities aren't in danger of starving.

IBT - The archer dies attacking Sumer, doing 1 point of damage and we get a palace expansion during anarchy :crazyeye:

Turn 7 - Our Curragh meets a German Galley in their bay, hopefully it won't attack.
Rather than risk the loss of our Great Library, I set Lagash to starve this turn.
I also notice Coast sticking out just NW of Erech. The next player should explore this area and hopefully find our other two opponents' homelands.

IBT - The German Galley ignores our curragh and moves for our lands. Not a good sign.
Another German Galley comes out of the fog near Erech and moves near our fog-busting Archer and Enkidu but doesn't unload its cargo.

Turn 8 - I shuffle troops to cover our new settler and prepare for the German invasion.

IBT - %$#@!!! The Germans unload a Vet. Swordsman and a Settler.

Turn 9 - I have an odd decision here. Do I attack now with the vet. Archer and follow up with the vet enkidu in case it fails, or do I retreat, coming back later with a larger force?
I consult my Combat calculator, and the odds of the Archer winning are about 45% and the Enkidu's chances of winning against the swordsman are 78% and 50% if it has 1 or 2 hp and just 28 if the Archer just does 1 point of damage.
I have a bad feeling about it so I hold off on getting a few more archers and enkidus to the front.

IBT - We learn currency and enter the Middle Ages. We learn Engineering, we learn Feudalism! The tech pace is flying! The Spanish are building Sun Tzu's.
Argh!!! The German Sword/settler pair retreat into the fog to a forest tile and another German Boat shows up! This is not looking good, especially with that long anarchy. It looks like we'll need an archer rush to secure the Iron. I wouldn't expect any offensives until Cavalry.


Turn 10 - Retreat and found Zabalam, set to Walls.

Once the Anarchy turns are over, I'd pump Enkidus and Archers until we have about 5 extra archers and 2 Enkidus and overwhelm the Western German city. While we build this invasion force, we could build the FP and Zeus (btw, I think I kept Lagash on starvation 2 turns in a row on accident, so let it riot this turn).
After that, we can consolidate our Gains and start building Iron Age units.

Pretty solid! :goodjob:

Next leader gets 4 turns of Anarchy, then we can finish filling up our island. We aren't going to be too badly off on units, we could support 26 right now and we have 31.

This is an excellent opportunity to push infrastructure, we have a good start towards an Island defense force, and we don't need to try an Archer-rush on another continent. We could also use more workers, we are at -2 on the worker count since the end of my turns. Probably wasn't worth it to lose pop during our GA, but now that's over. :)

So (since the last paragraph is hopelessly self-contradictory), corrupt cities where we don't want to build the FP can build workers, and our Core cities can take turns building infra.

I still like Akshak for the FP, and I still think we should have a chop-assisted Court before we start the FP build. Hopefully we can pull a leader before too long, and just rush it.

I didn't mean an archer rush for the next continent. I meant an archer rush into the West to make sure the Germans don't get a strong base there. I'm a little freaked out by the Vet swordsman and the Galleys near our lands. Plus, I'd go with an army over an early FP. Sure, we need an FP soon, but we also need workers to get our lands more productive in the first place. With an Enkidu or Pike army, we could pillage the AI back into the stone age.

I agree with Yom that allowing the AI to establish a beach-head on our continent is not good and we should build some military to prevent it. Other than that, I agree with TMcC in that we want to get our infra up and running.

Agree on a courhouse first. I don't think we can count on having a leader free to rush the FP when the AI has to ship units across the ocean. It is always slow to do so at first due to limited number of boats.

For crosssing to the other continent I think we should wait for the "new improved ancient cavalry army with 50% more pillaging action!"

More seriously, the extra movement point makes Ancient cavalry (or knights) the better choice and it is not long until we have one or the other or both.

One thing may be problematic with getting a pillaging army to the other continent. Is there a safe Galley passage? There isn't one to the West, but there must be one to the east if the Germans reached us. The first chance we get we should try to follow a German Galley back to port.

Otherwise, I'd agree that 1st leader goes for an army. We can build an FP without a leader, but we can't build an army. Only difficult thing about an AC army is that we are about 40 turns away from being able to form one. (Anarchy + SoZ build + 15 turns for 3 AC.) We could get a pike army sooner, but we'd have to give up our 10-shield spears. We'll just have to play it by ear, the army may end up being knights.

We should try to meet Babylon ASAP. As it stands, we are the most advanced civ we know. No one else knows Engineering.

There is one to the East. That was the coast peaking out I was talking about that the next player should explore. It's even safe for Curraghs. As to the Western passage, we should still be careful because the Spanish have boats that move 5 squares per turn and can come from almost anywhere (I know seafaring gives +1, so I guess they have The Great Lighthouse as well).

As to the Army, we might not even get a leader in 40 turns. We only have 1 offensive elite units, and we'll probably only get 2-3 landings per player turn at the most. If we do get a leader, though. We should definitely go for an ACav army unless Chivalry is available (or both mono and Feudalmism have been available for a while). I agree that we should probably play by ear and not plan to far in advance though.

A lot depends on when we get the leader. We will have to play it by ear.

It occurs to me that you have a point on the statue of Zeus. I need to remember to add the 15 turns to build them.

I don't think the statue will benefit us very much if we already are building knights already. Still worth building though, but the ACav will probably be sent to guard against incursions in the backlands rather than being at the forefront of the assault. (i.e. their biggest use will be to free us up from needing knights to protect our cites).

Roster:
Handy
Slinger
T_McC
Greebley
Yom - MIA with laptop issues. <- Just Played

Slinger I cannot play until Sunday since I'm leaving after work for a quick out of town trip. If you want to swap, go ahead. Remember though - you'll get anarchy - so you may want to wait.

I'll play Sunday if you don't want the anarchy. ;)

I miscalcualted when I set the play order. T_McC was supposed to get all the anarchy. :mischief:

Yeah, what happened to the tradition of T getting the anarchy? :lol: I'll play before Sunday. I think it is only 4 turns of it. I'll play tomorrow.

(Psst Barbslinger, you blew it. You were supposed to be "out of town" too) :D :D :D :D

I hate all of you.












:lol:

I hate all of you.
:lol:


I just pictured this little simpson guy saying that... Almost like Moe.:p LMAO!!!

I think he is role-playing the grumpy old men bit. :D

He just needs the "Why back when I was young we treated people with respect" or something like that. :p

(Just teasing TMcC, I suspect I am older than you are :) You can be grumpier though if you want )

=================================

Almost forgot: I have a trip coming up. I am visiting a gaming friend, but he is getting married. Will I have time for Civ? Unkown. I am hoping I can at least post though. I will be leaving the wednesday and come back Monday. In other words, I might need a skip if my turns come up, but am not sure yet.

Not sure what to do here. :confused:

I don't see an "I GOT IT" from Slinger, but in an earlier post he said he'd swap.

Slinger - if you're out there - let me know if I should claim the game, of if you already have it & have played.

I'll go play a little COTM01 & check back later.

Slinger said he'd play it by today. Maybe he just forgot.

What's COTM01?

Conquest Of the Month. It's the conquest version of the GOTM...

Guys, if it bothers you having me delurk this much, and never be brave enough to join one of your games, let me know and I'll go back to lurking until I'm ready to jump in one day.;)

Conquest Of the Month. It's the conquest version of the GOTM...

Guys, if it bothers you having me delurk this much, and never be brave enough to join one of your games, let me know and I'll go back to lurking until I'm ready to jump in one day.;)

Doesn't bother me. :)

Whoops, I'll play right now. Or, if Handy is ready you can go ahead. I'm trapped at work at the moment.

Been on the phone. Father's Day you know. :)

I'll play Monday night. If you can play before then, go ahead, otherwise I'll pick it up about 8:30pm CDT Monday.

Handy04 – 350BC –

Preturn – Mil Advisor says that we are strong to the Spanish and weak to the Germans. We’re strong to someone? Wasn’t expecting that! 4 turns of anarchy left and then into Monarchy. Wondering what our cash will be like then? Lagash has a serios food problem running 3 clowns. I may let it riot 1 turn.

IT – Spain drops an archer off north of Umma and we learn republic.

[1] 330 – A babylonian oat is over near Germany. He is up invention and no deals are possible. I declare and move the curragh 1 tile and fortify. The German boat that was off our coast looks to have dropped off a sword and settler after I move an archer out of Zabalam to have a look south. He’s vet and on a hill. We barely beat the archer in the woods near Umma, down to 1hp. That was close.

IT – The sword and settler head south towards the wheat and Ur and Akshack riot. MY bad.

[2] 310 – The babs galley went around us so I continue to map the coast. I’m going to let Lagash riot this turn to get enough food to ride out the anarchy.
IT – Lagash riots.

[3] 290 – Not much. Find Berlin on the north coast of Germany.

IT – Monarchy is here. Germans building Leos.

[4] 270 – Zeus comes in 13 turns using both forests but 60% lux to keep it happy with 0gpt, or I could go 14 turns and make +11gpt. I think sooner rather than later. Actually I slide the 2 enkidus from Umma to Lagash for MP and we get +11gpt now. Wake the elite telesanitizor up to head to where the action has been happening. The Germans settled Stuttgart S of iron hill. I swap Sumer to a horse. We’re probably going to have to be pretty mobile. We’re average to Babylon.

IT – Nothing.

[5] 250 - Wondering what to do with these 3 curraughs? We are through with contact so I’m going to store them for future galley upgrade in Kish. German excursion curraugh spots Babs border. He is due to get shot out of the water any turn now. BTW, the galley builds in the south were swapped to wall builds. We’re #4 in land. Not a good sign. I rush 2 wall builds, the horse and an archer. We have 201g left.

IT – Sumer-Horse>Walls, Umma, Archer>Rax, Erech and Isin-Walls> Rax. The corruption is bad down there. A german galley shows west of Akshack.

[6] 230 – Rush the Akshack walls for 52g. Germany or Spain do not have invention yet. LB’s would be nice. Erech gets just 1 of 6 shields. Courts may be in order.

IT – The germans float north and then turn around with no dropp off. Kish-Walls>Rax, Akshack-Walls>Rax.

[7] 210 – Swap tiles in UR to get growth and settler in 3 turns. Swap another archer build to horse in Bad-time. Bg’s are being completed there. We’ll be getting 6spt from there in 3 turns.

IT – Here we go. The sword pops from Stuttart to stand on Iron hill.

[8] 190 – Back the archer off.

IT – Sword heads towards us. Sumer-Walls>Horse. There is 3 enemy galleys near Bad-time.

[9] 170 – Bring in the barb watchers just in case. Rush the Bad-time horse for 40g.

IT – Babs drop off a spear/settler in the tundra south of Bad-time. Sword comes right up to the E archer and vet horse I have in the woods. Spain drops an archer next to Ur.

[10] 150 – Enkidu from Lagash takes care of the Spanish interloper. Have to put a taxman in Lagash to cover the MP loss but it did not affect Zeus build time. Good, it’s due in 7. Now I’m hoping the horse will retreat and the elite will pop a leader on this sword. The horse wins outright. He could have retreated but went for the win instead. Brave stallion. I have 3 archers headed to Stuttgart. Perhaps they can capture. It is already pop3 with that wheat and diety bonus.

Curraugh is still mapping. I have a feeling that Handy will have his hands full soon. I left the settler in Ur unmoved so that you can send him where you like. I was going to do north.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Handy04-150BC.jpg

Good turns, Barbslinger :D. I agree on our need for horses. Our Western empire is a bit too far from the core to be protected by Archers. I would bring 2 horses and 3 archers to Stuttgart to be sure of victory (it's on a hill, has a swordsman, and will probably whip a spear by the time we get there). I would keep Stuttgart b/c it fits into our dotmap okay. We can build 1 city 1N and 2W of it and another 1N and 2E. Both would be 3 moves from Stuttgart and 3 moves from our two most recently founded cities (can't see the names from the screenshot for some odd reason).

I wouldn't be overly concerned with lone cities other civs can found on our island. They are 1/1 for their owners, we can be patient with attacking them. It's not like those cities can generate an attack force on their own.

We need more workers. :) Cities that pull 1 spt for us shouldn't be trying to build 40-turn Barracks, I'd rather have the 4 workers.

If we are serious about building the FP in Akshak, we should be able to get a chop- and cash-assisted Courthouse there, and then move on to the FP.

We're in a weird position. If the others don't get us in the next 20 turns, they aren't going to get us. But we are way behind in infrastructure. Rember that Libraries are cheaper than Temples for us, if we just need an expansion to get better tiles. Or to poach an Iron from a foreign city. :mischief:

We can also help our economy a great deal by having Lagash spit out a Settler once it completes Zeus. The extra two pop there are costing us a lot of money. Also consider the need for Aqueducts in our core.

Looking at the save I think we should start the FP immediately. Corruption is killing us. At this point I would even consider a near town like Umma. I feel we would benefit more from getting the FP up quickly than a single town having lower corruption.

Erech for example is 100% corrupt and trying to build a barracks. I would build workers or settlers instead. Lets get our towns laid down so they can start growing. I think I would switch Erech to workers and Kisch and Isen to settlers.

Victory is 1 leader & 3 tiles away

Pre turn 150 BC
Rename Zabalam -> Zabalam-a-ding-dong. Rename Isin -> Isin da bag. Rename Kish -> Kish my… Rename Umma -> Umma Thurman. (Couldn’t help myself).
MM stuff:
MM Sumer to get 8 spt net.
MM Bad time 4 Al to get to 6 spt net.
Umma 4 spt net
Akshak switched to courthouse, which I’ll start a chop on with FP after that. MM for faster growth since we only have 1 spt.
Erich – 1spt - switched from barracks to worker.
Isin – 1spt switched from barracks to worker
Kish – 2spt to worker. This worker can improve Kish to a decent town.
Iron seems like a good thing to have. I’ll send the settler to either poach the iron, or build on top of it if we raze the German town before then. That’ll be a decent kill zone location after we chop the forest.

IBT
Babylon found on the ice in the south.
Isin – worker – worker
German city sends out an archer

Turn 1
Move some units into forest near Germany
Move units into position near Babylon.
No need to hurry and attack these as T_McC mentioned earlier.

IBT 130
Babylon founds a second city on our homeland. This time up north.
Getting the iron had become even more important. Hope we get knights soon.
Kish – worker – barracks. (We can chop this & get EW’s every 5 turns.)
Isin – worker – worker
German galley is following our dinky boat.

Turn 2 110
Attack & kill 1 spear in Southern Babylonian city. I guess they cash rushed an extra spear.
Elite archer kills German archer. No leader.
Stuttgart is size 3, so if we get it we can keep it.

IBT
Another German Archer pops out from Stuttgart.
Sumer – horse – horse

Turn 3 90
Attack & kill 2nd spear in Southern Babylonian city. There is another spear left. Geez, are they cash rushing one on each IBT?
Archer kills the regular unfortified IBT rush spear & the city burns.
We take Stuttgart, and rename it Sumer of 42
F11 reveals we are #1 in pollution!
Spend 23 minutes deciding if I should to rename Erech. Decide I don’t want to get banned from the forum, so I hit enter.

IBT
Babylonian boats circling our island like sharks.
Ur – walls – horse.
Agade –> barracks –> EW
Zabalam-a-ding-dong -> worker -> worker

Turn 4 70bc
Not much.

IBT
Spain wants to talk. She lacks horses.
Bad-Time – horse – horse
Northern Babylonian city sends out a Longbow.

Turn 5 50
Horse kills LB @ N Babylon.
Settler arrives & will settle next turn
Switch Ur to settler. Finishes in 5 and we grow to 6 in 5.
Bad-Time switches to building 2 turn EW’s while we still can. We’ll need a stack of them to survive the IBT when we try to insert our army. Others are all building horses.
The SoZ is due in 2. We only have 4 horses, so that will help a lot with homeland defense.
We have 4 units in Sumer of 42 (size2) and there is still a citizen in rebellion.

IBT
Babylon drops Bowman near the SoZ
Erech –worker – worker

Turn 6 30
Found Kisurra. I’m not making this up, that’s really the name. Avoid temptation to rename it to the obvious – walls.
German Unit still resisting. :mad:
Horse barely kills bowman on forest near Umma Thurman.

IBT
We learn Monotheism & Invention
Sumer – horse- horse
Bad Time – EW – 2 turn EW
Lagash - >SoZ -> BARRACKS (After that settler)
Umma riots since I used the MP last turn. Oops. :sad:
Germany starts Leo’s

Turn 7 10 BC
Kill another Babylonian LB
We can reach the other continent from Erech in 1 turn. There is a nice mountain to drop our army on whenever we get one.
Workers are in position to chop some more courthouse @ Akshak.
We are really light on workers in the east. I rushed 3 workers for 20, 32 & 36 gold. We have 177 left. I want to get roads down for our horse units to travel. It is going to get very busy pretty soon I think.

IBT
Umma Thurman – barracks – settler
Erech – worker – worker
Isin Da Bag – worker – worker
Zabalam-A-Ding-Dong – worker – worker

Turn 8 10AD
Perfect army insertion point to the east of Erech It’s jungle with no roads so we would be safe on the IBT. If we can pop a leader before the AI gets roads down in the jungle we have this game won.

IBT
Ur – settler – horse
Bad Time – EW – EW
Babylon sends out another LB in the north
Spain drops 2 archers @ Umma Thurman Umma seems to be very popular because of the nice rack – hey I meant the ivory! And the nearby SoZ.

Turn 9 30AD
LB defends & offs our horse.
Second horse puts away Babylonian LB & promotes to elite.
Chain EW’s from Bad-Time up to Umma.
Spear 1 Spanish archer near Umma.
Settler heads south towards the last hill on T’s dot map that is unfounded.
We are down to +5gpt

IBT
Umma EW wins & Promotes.
Spain start’s Leo’s

Turn 10 50ad
Nuthin’


Notes:
EDIT -> T_McC You need to MM Umma Thurman to get the settler in 4 turns working a forest.
Just pop a leader & the game is over. Not over quickly, but over.
We do need a harbor somewhere to upgrade our dinky's to galleys.
We may want to build 2 turn EW’s in both Bad-Time & Ur before we hook up the road to the iron and are forced to build pikes. We don’t really need the Iron now that we have Acav on the way until we get chivalry. I’d build roads all the way up to the iron though, and keep workers nearby.
Kish My… can be productive with some mines.
Umma needs a Temple or Library chop. Then water the plains.
Sumer’s mountain needs a mine.
AkshakYou can rush the courthouse for cash now, or do 1 more chop that may go somewhere else anyway. Maybe you should rush before you hit enter.
1 tile corrupt cities building worker Watch for growth. The new citizen always goes to a forest, which is of no use. Reassign to a food square.
Sumer of 42 is still resisting. That’s why it’s building a worker instead of walls. When the road reaches the city, resistance should end.

Picture follows...

50 BC

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HNDY04_50bc.JPG


It's Uma, not Umma... don't you Sumerians know anything? :rolleyes:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HNDY04_uma.JPG

Good work, but I'm cautious about landing an army next to a volcano. We don't want a freak accident to decimate our invasion.

I'm the Leader!

Play tonight. Not too worried about landing next to a Volcano. You always get a warning before the Volcano blows. If there's sparks flying when we get there, we'll just find another mountain.

@Greebley - Yep, I'm the only one of the group for whom it would be a lie to say, "I'm old enough to be Yom's father". Barely. Now Cuivienen is a couple of years younger than Yom ...

Though we'll get a warning, wouldn't it be better to land on the Bab's iron and pillage that right away, or is another source visible? You might want to check that in the diplo screen, T_McC.

(And I'm not THAT young :lol: I saw that some members at CFC are just in 5th grade:eek:!)

(And I'm not THAT young :lol: I saw that some members at CFC are just in 5th grade:eek:!)

It's not that you are that young, it's that we are that old! :p

(Although we really need to hook the RHVR Bede into one of these games, 'cause he makes the rest of us look spry.)

The Mountain adjacent to the volcano was suggested because it is within 3 tiles of Erech, so there would be no chance of an enemy boat sinking our Army. The other nice thing about that spot is that it seems to be surrounded by unroaded squares. If we're heading over on a Galley, our Army can only have 1 member in it before landfall. We really don't want to land on a square where we can be attacked before the other members are added.

T_McC The AI's favorite landing point appears to be the forest N of Umma that is next to Lagash & the SoZ. I chained some EW's up there, but a little more defense wouldn't hurt. Chopping that forest around Umma would also be a good idea after the workers in the south get some roads down.

CATS We should also get some cats going somewhere. IIRC, either Erech or Isin Da Bag can pull 2 spt with some growth for 10 turn cats. Pretty soon the AI will be dropping defense 3 Pikes & Knights on the forest N of Umma. Cats will help our Acav & horses kill off these interlopers. :D


It's not that you are that young, it's that we are that old!
I may be old, but at least I’m immature. :lol:

Btw, have we built an FP yet? If not, I'd start one in Lagash right after that barracks finishes for our Vet. ACs. Corruption is killing us in the West and the reduced corruption in the FP city isn't worth placing it far away.

HNDY04 - Distant Shores.

50 AD (0)
Goal is to improve our economy. We'll never be able to research anything at this rate.

Two things are killing us: Having to run 40% lux for Lagash, and only having 1 city over size 6. We'll see what we can do.

Bad-time needs a Courthouse and an Aqueduct. We have cheap Aqueducts, remember. Sumer needs an Aqueduct. Lagash will produce a (veteran) Settler after the Barracks complete. Settler in Umma gets vetoed, we need it to grow to size 7. Agade needs a Harbor and an Aqueduct. Isin da Bag will be the beneficiary of some forest chops and irrigation, to produce Trebs. Unfortunately, I have to say that Akshak is a lost cause for the FP unless we get a leader. The city is at least 80% corrupt. We'll make a decision after I rush the Courthouse. Most of our army is in the primary flip risk city. :crazyeye: They have 1 turn to end resistance, then I'm leaving.

Kish my ... goes to Settler, to replace the one I vetoed in Akshak. We need maybe 4 more to fill up our lands. [One is active and will found on turn 2.]

We have 204 gold, making 9 per turn. I rush the Courthouse in Akshak for 188 gold.

IT - Good Lord, there are a lot of Galleys in the water.

70 AD (1)
Sumer: Horse --> Aqueduct
Bad-time: Enkidu --> Aqueduct
Lagash: Barracks --> Settler
Agade: Horse --> Enkidu
Akshak: Court --> FP at 3 spt. This will work, it should get up to 5 fairly easily.

Resistance ends in Sumer of 42. Everybody out!

We now only make 3 gpt.

IT - We learn Chivalry. No need to hurry with the Knights or the Iron hook up.

90 AD (2)
We get a vet AC.

Kish my ... : Settler --> Treb

Der founded, starts on Walls. Built on a hill, with a double-Enkidu garrison. Very safe.

Freshly-built settler heads south.

IT - Nothing special

110 AD (3)
Assault on Shuruppak: Vet AC wins, Elite Horse wins. We get no leader, but we do get 36 gold.

Archer defeats LB.

IT - None of these boats wants to drop anything off ???

130 AD (4)
Ur: Horse --> Aqueduct

Lagash: Settler --> Enkidu

Lux tax down to 20%. Income to +14 gpt.

150 AD (5)
Troop shufflng.

IT - Blow the Germans off. Learn Gunpowder. We have salt at Ur.

170 AD (6)
Lagash continues with 1-turn Enkidus.

IT - Babylon drops off an LB. Get another vet AC.

190 AD (7)
Agade: Enkidu --> Aqueduct
Sumer of 42: Worker --> Walls (Stupid forest chop went the wrong way!)
Sumer: Aqueduct --> Temple
Bad-time: Aqueduct --> Enkidu
Lagash: Enkidu --> Temple

Build Kua. Actually back the other settler up, there is more fruitful terrain in the East.

Whack LB with Elite AC. No leader.

IT - Alright, Spain is trying to participate. Two reg Archers dropped off in our SE.

210 AD (8)
Resistance ends in Shuruppak. Taxman created.

Archers killed by AC and Horse.

It's about time to hook up the Iron, but after I finish tweaking the FP area.

IT - More crap from Izzy.

230 AD (9)
Dismiss the reg Spanish Archer. Doesn't anyone else have Iron? Or are they fighting amongst themselves?

IT - Krauts finish Sun Tzu's.

250 AD (10)
Shuffle workers.

Final Notes:
The FP site should be up to 5 spt very soon. In fact, we should consider merging a non-German worker into the city when it grows to size 5, I think it can make 7 spt at size 6 and break-even food.

No unit losses, so despite the gains in population and unit support, we are still at +13 gpt. I fear for our capacity to research. Might be a good time to put the outliers on Courts or Walls, once this batch of workers completes. We'll have over 20, with a fairly developed empire.

We need those Temples to support size 8 cities. We could also consider Courts in Bad-time and Agade to perk up our production capacity.

We are just about immune from attacks. We have 2 AC and 8 Horses running around, so landings can at least be met by volume.

I think we have just about all the MP units we can use, it may be time to hook up the Iron and start to build Knights. I definitely would not hook up the saltpeter until we have Metallurgy, or maybe even Military Tradition.

Nice job. We are due a leader.

This is going to be a defensive game for a while now. Did you have a chance to sneak the Dinky Boats over to the ship off point? Forgot to do it myself & didn't put it in the notes.

If not, Next leader should move them in as a three stack by moving 1 turn, fortifying, moving 1 turn, fortifying, etc. Galley's probably won't attack a fortified dinky boat 3-stack. We need to move them to Erech now before the AI builds Caravels.

Go ahead and skip me. I need to head to sleep tonight and will traveling all tomorrow. After that chances are that I will be too busy to play.

Go ahead and skip me. I need to head to sleep tonight and will traveling all tomorrow. After that chances are that I will be too busy to play.

Bummer!

Roster:
Handy
Slinger
T_McC
Greebley
Yom <- UP

@Have a good trip and welcome to Los Angeles. If I wasn't going to San Jose for the weekend I would have asked if I could buy you an imbibement. Enjoy the weather here. It is pretty nice right now.

I read in another thread that Yom is having disk trouble again.

I am :(. I'll see if I can get it working, but I doubt it.

I am :(. I'll see if I can get it working, but I doubt it.

Okay - I'll put you on autoskip :( until you check back in that your disk is working again.


Roster:
Handy
Slinger
T_McC
Greebley <-UP
Yom <- Autoskip due to disk issues

Oops posted Sling3 turnlog to the wrong SG :blush:

There's nothing here...move along

Roster:
Handy <- playing
Slinger
T_McC
Greebley <-out of town
Yom <- Autoskip due to disk issues

Well... since Greebley's playing Sling3 tonight... and since Yom's CD is broken... and since I want to move this along because I leave on vacation next Thursday...

I GOT IT

Building Infrastructure :coffee:

Summary
I hardly build any military, mostly temples & Libraries.
No leaders but we do have a few Elites now.
Started the Dinky Boats towards Erech, which is building a harbor.

Pre-turn
Defenses look good, so Kish changed to aqueduct from treb
Kisurra & Der switched from walls to court. I did this only because we seem to have a pretty good & fairly mobile homeland defense, and the AI must use naval landings.

Plans
Irrigate & mine core tiles.
Get some libraries built since we are nearing the self-research phase
Start courts after the current worker builds complete
Courts in Bad-time and Agade.
I’ll hook up the Iron, but wait on the salt.

IBT
Ur – aqueduct – Temple & after that Library
Babylon begins Leo’s.
Babylon starts Knights Templar
Babylon finishes Knights Templar. Boy, that was fast.
Spain begins Sistine.

Turn 1 260
Not much

IBT
We learn theology
We learn Chemistry
SOZ pops AC
Babylon building Sistine
Spain completes Leo’s

Turn 2 270
Shadowing galleys with our rapid response team so we can attack after they land.

IBT
Germany drops a sword off S near iron.
Babylon wants to talk. They have Iron, 3 luxuries & Metallurgy.
Lagash – Temple – library
Shuruppak – worker – court
Babylon starts Sistine
Germans start Sistine

Turn 3 280
I’m working on chopping the coastal forest to take away the AI’s defensive bonus on the turn they land.
AC hammers German Sword
Time to hook up the Iron so we can get knights to battle the swords & pikes that are sure to be on the way.

IBT
Germany drops off 2 swords near the Iron. I guess this is where the Ai wants to attack because they are certainly traveling a long way to get there.
Sumer – Temple – Library. Need some mines near Sumer and Ur.
Bad Time – Temple – Library
Umma – Temple – market

Turn 4 290
AC kills sword
Horse offs Sword
Elite horse nails Spanish LB dropped in the north near Kish.

IBT
Babylon finishes Sistine
The road to the Iron is complete.
FP is due in 24 turns

Turn 5 300
:sleep:

IBT
LB drops near Kish My
Lagash – Library – knight
Can’t remember an AW game where we had soooo many infrastructure builds going at the same time. After the Libraries complete I plan to have 2 cities building markets while the others build knights.
Agade – aqueduct – temple
Sumer of 42 – worker – courthouse
Kua – worker – courthouse

Turn 6 310
AC offs LB
I forgot to do this earlier, but I begin the tedious task of moving the currahs to Erech which is building a harbor so it can upgrade the currahs to carry the army over that we hope to get soon. Taking the southern route.

IBT
Isin da Bag – worker – court
Zabalam-a-ding-dong – worker – court

Turn 7 320
Worker stuff
Move our Dinky Fleet
IBT
Babylon drops 2 units @ Kish my and Spain drops 1
Ur – Temple – Library
Sumer – Library – knight

Turn 8 330
Battles @ Kish
Elite horse wins. No leader
AC wins and Promotes
Horse wins & Promotes
We now have 3 elites @ Kish.
Kish needs a barracks after the aqueduct & Temple completes so these guys can heal faster. Attacks are not too frequent right now since the galleys have to travel so far. They are using the barracks in to heal Sumer if redlined. If they are just nicked a little they heal next to Kish.

IBT
Our galleys are taking the southern route to avoid the AI boat traffic, nevertheless they are attacked and win against a galley.
Bad-Time – library – market
Kish My – temple

Turn 9 340
I’m dragging water from Ur over to the plains near Der. We can mine over the irrigation after the water gets to Der.

Turn 10 350
worker stuff.

FP now due in 24 since it is working a mined grass for population growth.
Rotate core cities to Marketplace builds. Probably should have 2 core cities building markets at all times. Rest of the core can build knights (after they get Temples & Libraries done).
We’ll probably get education pretty soon and have to self-research, which will be tough on 6gpt. :lol:
Keep the Dinky’s sailing towards Erech.
Maybe we should build a quick harbor in Ur :hmm: to upgrade the Dinky’s after the Library completes. Getting an army to the other side ASAP is our best way to win. harbor in Erech will take way too long. We’ll need 2 galleys, assuming the mountain drop off remains un-roaded.

I think we have a good shot at this game. If we get an army to the other side soon, we have an excellent chance. I think I’d go for an AC army to pillage more tiles each turn. Wouldn't bother to attack with it, just pillage.

Roster:
Handy
Slinger <- UP
T_McC
Greebley <-out of town
Yom <- Autoskip due to disk issues

Greebley - Cut in if you have time to play since we skipped you

350 bc

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HNDY04_350ad.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HNDY04_350ad2.JPG

:D Great turns Handy! It looks like we've got our starting island completely under control. The only question now is when to go on the offensive. Once we get our infrastructure built, I say we go on the offensive immediately. That way we can still get some use out of our knights and AC before Muskets appear and establish a beachhead. Then we can play defense until Cavalry and then just use our already established beachhead to push forward with cavalry and win ;).

One question though: What's the use of building the FP in Akshak? The lower corruption in that city isn't worth delaying it that much. IMHO, we really should have built it in Lagash after the SoZ.

Concur on the great turns Handy!
I'll play tonight and then I have to be skipped until Monday night. I'm coming into work early tomorrow so I can leave for the weekend to San Jose for the 10th annual Meathead Golf tourney. It's all my buddies from up there and I'll be coming home Monday afternoon.

The reason we are building the FP in Akshak is because the FP does effect the cities around it. We will recover more shields and gold this way.

Lagash could have built it about 15 turns sooner than Akshak, but by not building the FP, Lagash provided plenty of military cover so our other core cities could build aqueducts. There's always a trade-off, but we certainly could have done the FP there.

On a related note: Akshak can't grow larger than size 6 without an aqueduct, so it should be configured for max shields and break-even food. We should score another shield that way.

A Harbor in Ur is an excellent idea.

Is anyone else terri