I took a guess and just added the entire selection (including bth rows of # signs) on the VERY bottom and it magicly worked and i can continue my wonderful game...THANK YOU VERY MUCH PLUTARK!!!!:-) you are king:egypt:

I've used the mod, an it is very good:) . Of course, I've had some problems. The main thing is, I've exhausted iron and horse resources, without even building anything that requires them:( .

Also, since warriors have axes, couldn't they be used to clear forests?

One more thing. If I put a reqular combat unit on automate, what will it do:confused:

Goat_Guy: Glad it's working again :D


Octavian X: Yeah, that's a problem with Civ3 itself in that resources can be depleted without even being within your territory, much less being worked or connected by a road.

In ERP4 resources will move a little bit less than they do now. They're jumpin' around a bit too much :)



Ok, here are my latest entrys into changelog.txt:


01/19/01:

-Mining: Costs 16 turns instead of 12. Mining is a bit more valuable now, and also curbs the "mine all the grasslands" problem a little.

-Fortress: Costs 12 turns instead of 16. Is there

-Plant Forest: Costs 20 turns instead of 22. I'd make it 18, but I don't think the AI knows how to use it, so it would purely be for the benefit of the player.

-Clear Forest: Costs 12 turns instead of 10. They do provide an extra 5 shields now, and deforestation should take a bit more effort (since it comes with few consequences).

-Clear Pollution: Costs 22 turns instead of 24.

-Fruit: New resource. Like Oasis for Jungles, but gives +2 food and +1 commerce.

-Mountains: Now provides 1 commerce instead of 0. Thus it now has a base of providing 2 production and 1 commerce, and when roaded and mined provides 4 production and 2 commerce.

-Tundra: Now has 2 movement cost instead of 1.

-NOTE: While playing with units in the LWC calculator I suddenly realized a whole new dimension of units that needs to be tested. Cost must be factored together with stats to decide what is a more powerful unit. I have failed to do this up till now, because I was assuming that 1 old unit would equal 1 new unit; which can reasonably be true because of how production increases over time, but we'll put that aside for now. Thus the LWC combat system still works pretty darn well, but I'm refiguring the details now. Consider this:

I had given the War Caravel (WC) a Cost/Attack/Defense/Movement of 7/8/6/4, and the Ship of the Line (SL) 10/13/10/5. I figured this would allow the WC a reasonable chance of success if attacking first (36% chance, it turned out), but it would be pretty easily thrashed if the SL attacked first. However, I failed to factor in cost.

For the cost of 21 (210 shields ingame, though the AI can build it for less on higher difficulty levels) you can build 3 WCs, and for 20 cost you can build 2 SLs. If 3 WCs attack 2 SLs (assuming all ships are Veteran), one right after the other, the WCs have roughly a 68% chance of victory (2% less of a chance if all ships were Regulars)! That means it is actually better NOT to be able to build the SL so you can just build WCs instead, as it regards ship to ship warfare! Obviously not acceptable, even if that's only when the WCs are on the attack.

If the WCs have only a 7 attack the chance of success is reduced to 55%, but that still isn't all that good. But if the SL also gets 11 defense, then the problem is altogether solved, leaving a (reasonable) 46% chance of success (20% when 1 on 1) when attacking. But if the SLs attack first then they have an, appoximately, 80% chance of success.

This is of course ignoring other factors involved, but it's not a bad rule of thumb to go by. So warfare should be alot more balanced now, without tipping the scales too much in any one direction.

One more calculation which is important to make: Figure the chances of 2 attackers winning against a defender, not just one. Otherwise the stats may look good at first, but once you add another attacker right behind you see that it gets pretty darn Ugly.

-NOTE: It is only now that I realise how awful and difficult Civ3 is to actually make "good", because of the lack of any ability to give increased hit points to units as well as the lack of firepower (and to a lesser extent, armor). Why?

Well, I'll tell you why. To get the ships balanced properly so that it's actually worth developing in technology to conduct warfare, by the advent of Steel I must have ships with 37 Attack and 30 Defense. It's not even the second half of the industrial age! It's a darn good thing the maximum stat for a unit goes over 99, because otherwise I'd have very little room left for the Modern Age!

To figure out the chance of one unit winning over another with such high numbers (and I mean with only a LITTLE accuracy), you just about HAVE to use a combat calculator or just settle for "well, this should be a better than 50% chance of not totally loosing...I think. ...well, I guess not."

I sware, the more I think about the sickeningly sad state of Civ3 the more I like the idea of accepting the offer to join the Clash of Civilizations development team - after I finish with the LWC Mod, of course (don't want to let anyone down, and I'm sure I can make Civ3 at _least_ be a major step forward for the series...as long as you only count Civ1. Otherwise, I might as well try to bend the golden gate bridge with the power of "PSI"...which might actually be easier, come to think of it).

Ah well, never let it be said that I did not make headway into doing the impossible in my lifetime. :D

-NOTE: By the way, did I mention that Civ3 handles Submarines like a complete POS? I didn't? How, I must have LOST MY FREAKIN MIND. X-|

-Nuclear Attack Sub: Has now been deleted and will not be in the LWC Mod any further. I find that there is simply no need for it, and it's whole use is now completely taken by the Nuclear Submarine that comes with Civ3.

-NOTE: Oh, how cruel the hands of fate! I soo wished to make a Naval Army (Armada, perhaps?), but guess what? There isn't an AI Naval Strategy for Army, as there is for Land! So if I added it, and it didn't crash the game (as unlikely as THAT is), only the player could use it! *weeps*

-Factory, Manufacturing Plant, Coal Plant, Nuclear Plant: Changed.

-Oil Plant: New improvement, alot like Coal Plant, Nuclear Plant. More expensive to maintain, but produces less pollution and requires Oil instead of Coal, as well as making 1 less person unhappy (compared to Coal Plant).

-Automated Factory: New improvement, takes the place of what Manufacturing Plant use to be.

-National Bank: New Small Wonder. Yeah, another Forbidden Palace, but this time for the later Middle Ages. Inspired by the Bank of England.

-Mass Transit System: Back down to production 1 pollution, because it seems 1 = 25% increase. Bother...

-City Dump: No longer requires a Sewer System be in the city.


01/18/01:

-Settlers, Pioneers: Now take 3 pop points to build. This is purely for testing purposes, but in theory it seems like a reasonably good idea...we'll see.

-Civilizations: I have incorporated some city/leader names from the "Changes to some annoying name errors, plus Canada civ" mod by Wyz_sub10. The Iriquous first 20 or so citys are now new, with the old ones following right behind (with a few removed). The Zulu's capital is now properly Ondini, and "Zimbabwe" has been removed, along with my changing around of leaders and adding "Bongoza", who led Zulu enemys (the Boers) into an ambush at the Battle of Opathe. Germany now has...Hitler. If Stalin can be counted as a leader of Russia, Hitler can be counted as a leader of Germany - and if you look over the leader lists, you'll probably notice worse butchers than either of them, so just delete his name if you have a problem with it.

There are also plenty of other little changes in city and leader names, but not worth listing every little change.

For those who didn't know, I already had included Sevorak's city/leader name mod since at least ERP1, which is why you'll note that there are far more city and leader names for all civilizations.

-Errors: Fixed a few more civilopedia errors.

-Catapult, Trebuchet, Canon, Artillery, Radar Artillery: Now capturable again.

-Note: Three cheers for Gramphos, for creating a Unit Organizer from my request! I really, REALLY love having my units back in order now. You don't know how nice it is unless you play around and try to compare the units like they were.

Definately will ease my unit comparisons and customizations.


01/17/02:

-Errors: Fixed some civilopedia errors, and added correct requirements and effects of small wonders.

-Minuteman: New unit, now the unique unit for America instead of F-15.

-F-15: No longer available in the game, but it may be used for something later. For now it has no tech requirement and is not available to any civilization.

-Military Academy: Now available with Education instead of Military Tradition, and is down to costing 45 instead of 50. Academy, University...makes sense to me. The effect should be armys becoming available earlier now, so that should make things a bit more interesting on the whole. And remember, to build it you only need to have 7 barracks built in citys you control, so don't think you _have_ to use a Leader to build an Army. Hell, I STILL haven't gotten a leader since I've been playing the game, which is why I changed the way Military Academy became available.

Now you can actually build Heroic Epic at some point, so long as you got have a victorious army. Yay :)

-Jungle: Now provides 1 less shield to start, but can be mined providing +1 shield. So it will start by providing 1F/1P, with a road it will give 1C, and once mined it will give 2P instead of 1P. But if you're going to go to all that trouble you'd probably do best to Clear it out instead.

-Longevity: Now gives an Aqueduct to all citys, in addition to everything else it does. I could have added a "Longevity Effect" with the "allows city size 2" ability and have Longevity provided that, but then if you built it you'd want to go into each city and sell any Aqueducts you have. So this is the best way of doing it, even if it doesn't make the most sense in the world. The effect remains the same :)

I could also have had it allow city size 3 in all citys, but we'll just stick with this instead. Easier and more balanced, I think.

Meaningless screenshot, feel free to ignore this post:

Very very cool looking so far :goodjob: Keep up the good work.

I've noticed one thing in the games I've played with the latest version of your mod that you might want to consider relating to the military academy requiring 7 barracks to be built. In games that I usually play, I rarely build barracks early on, but instead wait and build Sun Tzu's Art of War to give all my cities barracks automatically. The problem with this is that I've noticed that whenever you build a wonder that gives all cities a certain improvement, it seems that later improvements that require these buildings to be built before they can be built are not available. In this case, if all your barracks are built automatically due to Sun Tzu, you will never be able to build a military academy. I've noticed this with several other wonders that I've played with and it seems that it occurs with all of them. I created a wonder for testing purposes that automatically gave temples to all cities (a WAY too powerful wonder, by the way) and was never able to build cathedrals. You may want to consider this when requiring certain buildings to be built before other buildings/wonders can be built.

P.S. - Your MOD rocks!!!

furst: Thanks alot for telling me about that...*sigh* Yet another obstacle to making a mod that probably won't ever be "fixed".

Ah well, in ERP4 Military Academy will become available with Education and require 4 Universitys be built. Not a bad trade-off.




ANNOUNCEMENT:

Regarding ERP4, I am now in the testing and final polish phase to prepare for the release of it.

I believe I have fixed combat on land and sea at least 95%, which is probably 99% of what's actually possible to do :D

Further, ERP4 fixes every issue I know to fix (that I'm actually going to invest the time to fix, that is; I don't think I'll do anything to the tech tree except, at most, doing something with the modern era...but I doubt it) save 2: Governments and needing more Great Wonders in the Industrial and Modern eras (and maybe some more improvements too).

Cost is the only "iffy" thing, I believe.

Just one step closer to "completing" this mod, and I think I'm getting quite close with this one.


I hope to have it released by Thursday, which should allow me enough time to test and make sure everything is working satisfactorily.


Let the slobbering, BEGIN! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Great mod! I've just started a game with it.

I was wondering... when can we expect a Release Candidate, with civilopedia text, that is? :D

I recently began my first game with this mod. Very interesting, I must say.

One thing. The unit animations for two galleys is screwed. Instead of turning side on to battle, they face forward to each other. Looks really silly.

A really awesome job, Plutarck. Terrific ideas, well done stuff.

My only "beef" is that many of your new stuff comes too late in the game. For example, the computer oversight and AI governing prototype come too late to really make a difference in corruption. I liked an idea I saw on final solution to corruption by distance (by Dreifels, I think) that creates the equivalent of additional small wonders like the forbidden palace. He had up to 5 regional governments. I just like the idea of creating 2 local/regional/state government improvements, one that becomes available with the Republic and one with Democracy. Thus, it makes those Techs more valuable even if you don't switch govs.

I think your setting for Shakespeare Theatre has the effect of giving 8 happiness to all cities on continent. That is not what you say in your text, so you might want to check that.

On the Pioneer unit, I see no need for a Settler to Pioneer upgrade. Settlers gets used; they don't typically hang around for an upgrade. I like requiring 3 population for the settler, and I also like increasing the cost of the settler. What I am testing now is making the Pioneer available at higher cost, but for only 2 population, and giving the pioneer the ability to build roads. I agree with the pioneer only being available for expansion civs after map-making.

Some other ideas: I am giving every foot and mounted soldier a population cost of 1, in an effort to slow down the proliferation of AI units. I also decreased the initial costs, but increased the per unit costs of having more than 4 units per city to 3 or more per unit, depending on the civ.

With the settler population value at 3, I increased the maximum town size to 8, and city size to 16. Settler population of 3 is really a hit to a size 6 town.

I really like Ahenobarb's low cost Shrine as a cheap early improvement that can get a city kick started on culture. He had a cost of 10, culture 1, that was available early on before the Temple even.

Finally, sewer system is a better and more logical improvement to base advancement to metropolis than the hospitals. Hospitals can then be decreased in cost, but require a certain number of them before the Cure for Cancer or Longevity Wonders can be built.

Just some thoughts...great work!!

I won two games playing the ERP-3/ wIrrigation graphic mod. and had NO CRASHES!!!:D It seems to be very stable now. I made it a point to build every new or modified unit and improvement/wonder...All good. Anybody know if the non-depleting resources mod I'm seeing posted could be used in conjunction w/ the ERP- scenarios?? Also as noted above Naval "Armies would be Da-bomb!

The attack of the cannons is also screwed up. Instead of attacking the square they are supposed too, they attack the square next to it, I'm not sure if it's turned clockwise or counter-clockwise

Reading Plutarck's comments on the prev. I am thinkin that ther have been additions since I loaded ERP-3 on 1-16-02... Is this the case? :confused:

Plutark...i have found another "bug"

WHen playing CIv3, and i tried to load a saved game that has been used w\ LWC2 and 3(if that matters). It loads it and then says:

Datal0 Operation System Error: LNSL


:mad: What does this mean????? im really mad, i had a great game...ifu need a saved game...ill give u one


:o please hurry w\ a solution....thanx

Plutark. Not sure if this is a bug. I find that the resources seem to disappear at a regular basis and do not seem to return very quickly (if at all). I was playing a game and lost horses, iron, coal and they never returned in my land area. Looking over the AI's land, those resources never disappeared. Also, can you explain the percentage chance of a fortified rifleman (veteran) in the mountains losing to knights on a consistant basis? Same game, AI was unstoppable, conquered cities with great ease even though they were heavily defended. Playing on warlord level. Great modpack though, easier to find resources now, keep up the great work.

It seems to me that the AI has always had an unfair advantage when it comes to war.

in ERP3, is there a reason that calvary cannot pillage or is this just an oversight? Im in a game and sent some calvary to tear up the enemies economy and noticed the pillage option was not available to them.

Great mod though! Im looking forward to ERP 4!!!

Originally posted by joost1110
The attack of the cannons is also screwed up. Instead of attacking the square they are supposed too, they attack the square next to it, I'm not sure if it's turned clockwise or counter-clockwise
I had the problem with Artillery also, but before using the LWC Mod (v1.16f). When I bombarded a city the Artillery would fire anywhere but towards the city. :confused:

Hey Plutarck,

First of all, I've played ERP3 from begining to end (1990) and it works great. I've had a lot of fun with it. I wanted to give you some feedback on what I noticed.

1) I believe there is a small bug in the strategic resources removal/replacement. When the game started, there was iron all over the place. By the end, when I owned 3/4 of the map, I had 1 iron supplying my whole civilization (this was actually one of my main motivators to go out and kill another civilization). So, while that is an interesting side affect, I don't think you were aiming for that.

2) In the industrial ages and later, I think there are too many infantry ground forces. Shock troops, machine gunners, infantry, etc. The way I see it, there should be two vehicle and two infantry at a time (1 offense and 1 defense each). I know that different forces have different ability (naval attack, airlift, airdrop, etc.), but honestly it was just too much work to figure out how to use them all effectively so I didn't build most of the units that were available. Or.. if you like having lots of units, perhaps you should really differentiate them. Like a ground unit with low attack/defense and 3 move. Or a unit with super high attack/defense that has 1 move on any terrain (including roads and rail). Just so that there is a significant reason to choose between one or the other.

3) I think you know this, but the civilopedia is broken in a bunch of places. I still have no idea what the guild hall does (although I build one in every city anyway..)

4) I have no idea if the computer does this all the time or if the mod played some role here, but the computer (on Monarch) made some REALLY stupid strategic decisions during the game. I got attacked by three different civilizations that had absolutely no chance of winning (as in they were dead 4 turns later). Is it possible that changing the units confuses the AI and causes it to make poor(er) decisions?

Thanks again,

This mod is great!

Lovro: The civilopedia is mostly fixed now, with all the functional errors removed.

A big civilopedia update will basically require going through the entire thing and fixing any error, and probably adding a few things too (man, does their Concepts section suck or what?). I doubt I'll be doing that anytime soon, as it's alot of work for little pay off.

But for the entrys everyone actually uses (like seing what Guild Hall actually does...which is simply to reduce corruption), that'll mostly be available in ERP4. I don't feel like rechecking it all, so just report any and all errors and I'll get 'em fixed :)


Ripley: No idea what's up with that, but I'm guessing it's civ3's fault.


PepsiFizz:

New Stuff - Those 2 later things are pretty much just there for the heck of it, though they are indeed unimportant.

However with the addition of National Bank and National Constitution, along with the old Forbidden Palace, there should be enough options to fight corruption now.

I think it's just peachy now playing on Monarch, though I'm sure it's still a little high for some people's taste.

Shakespeare - Yup, definately a bug. Whoops! Thanks for reportingi t :)

Pioneer - The Pioneer is only for Expansionist civs, and Upgrade is the only way to get rid of the option of the old Settler in favor of it's replacement.

Non-expansionist civs won't notice anything at all.

3 pop Settler - I've pretty well decided against this one, because frankly...I kinda hate it. It just slows everything down entirely too much, but having 4 cost instead of 3 seems to be the ideal fix. Slows the crazy expansion quite nicely, I think, yet it doesn't feel as if the game is that much slower.

Shrine - Thanks for reminding me of that, and I've decided to go ahead and add it. It also allows me to give Polytheism that extra increased value I had wanted it to have by moving Temple to it, though moving Hanging Gardens to it also did that. Hopefully it'll make the ancient age a bit more interesting.

Hospitals - Not a bad idea, but for now I'm leaving it alone. Otherwise I'd have to figure out what to use to replace Sewer System...


J C Woodman:

The non-disappearing one can't be used, but you could always open up the mod in the editor, go to the Natural Resources tab, then set all the disappearance rates to 0.

But with ERP4 they won't move around nearly so much. They were definately hoppin' all over the darn place, but it seems more calm now.


Goat_Guy:

You'll have to send me the .sav, cause I have no idea what causes that error. Never heard of it before.


krenn:

Don't know what's up with the Pikeman thing. Fortified on a Mountain a 3 defense pikeman has a modified defense rating of 6.75. So with a Knight it would be 6 vs 6.75, and if both veteran the Knight has a 42% chance of winning.

And what you're noticing is a bug in civ3, in that disappearance apparently occassionally means actual "it's not on the map anymore". This is vastly improved in ERP4, and you probably won't notice that problem much anymore.

Though I haven't changed the appearance ratio of anything...but luxurys won't disappear anymore, and everything else won't disappear so much.


arebelongtous!:

1) See above.

2) I agree, though I don't really know how to fix it. Shock Troops are just a kind of "Special Unit" now, powerful but can give a good hit on your population (same as settler now).

Paratroopers airdrop, marines and amphibious, and the machine gunner is the only normal one of the bunch.

You are right though in that there are too many right then, but it does clear up as soon as you get Computers, and completely with Synthetic Materials.

3) Fixed (mostly) in ERP4 :D

4) I too just played a game on Monarch, but I believe this is just Civ3 itself. With me the AI kept sending it's units in small little waves, like a complete imbecile, allowing me plenty of time to waste each set and get back into my citys, get full HP, then go out and wipe out the next batch.

That was the Greeks though. The French I mostly just wasted outright...they weren't quite so stupid though, but they won't win any awards for "Ingenious Tactics" from me either.

It's just the case of how badly the AI invades. Really, it just implements it for crap, allowing a strong force with a good strategy to end up slaughtered one by one, usually leading to a big follow-up AI defeat.

I don't think the mod makes it any worse, and I only wish I could make it better...*sigh*




ERP4 on it's way out, and if I may say so: I've really outdone myself on this one, and in a major way. Shwew!

Plutarck: Thanks for the fast reply, you must be awful busy right now. It was not a pikeman, but a fortified musket infantry. Also happened with non-fortified riflemen in mountains against knights.

Also noticed that the AI civs still demand way too much in terms of trading resources and tech. Usually ask for tons of cash, technology and luxuries/resources for a simple territory map. Is this a bug or just the AI's way of a sick joke :)

Again, keep up the great work, looking forward to the next installement of LWC.

Yes, ERP4 is now out and available for download.

*wipes brow*

Jeesh, it easily has over 15 hours of non-stop work between ERP3 and ERP4 (probably 20+, though I wasn't really counting), and is definately worth upgrading, or getting it for the first time :)


Check the first post for details, and check the website at http://lwc.realmofgaming.net for addons and other info.


Enjoy, and I await all your feedback :D :D :D

Nice One on erp4. I'm playing your erp3 version on Monarch and am really enjoying the changes. It is much better and it is definitely more of a challenge than the original rules. I know that you must put a lot of work in to it tuning tweak and improving (Firaxis could learning something) your mod.

I'm near the end of the industrial age and have many saves. I'm on a large map with continents and it is all nicely poised. Everybody has about the same tech level and all have large continent based empires. Probably make a good scenario so I'll let you have the saves in the near future.

Again thanks for your efforts :)

*cough* *looks around* *twiddles fingers* grapes are a fruit...

Just one thing from your changes - been reading about the aircraft vs ships and think you may need to reconsider the statement:

'It's not like aircraft can really sink ships anyway :)'

The threat from aircraft in WWII affectively put an end to large battleships as a breed (take Bismarck - wasn't sank but torpodoes from biplanes allowed British warships to catch it and finish it off). Also just ask us Brits about the Exocet missile in the Falklands war and watch us cringe. This missile almost caused us to lose this war.

Can see it is difficult to get a balance in the game though.

PS I've got fruit - just no picture in the non-labelled resource pcx

AHA! AHA, I say, AHA!

I believe I now have reasonable confirmation of my hypothesis, which I believe was the cause of quite a few era change crashes. And it's not me, but the freakin' download!


It appears to me that somehow, early on after a release (or some small time thereafter), some people download the file and rather than getting the new version, they get the old version!

I also had a problem with the website doing this, where I updated it and someone said that they were only seing old information- not what I had newly updated.


I haven't a clue what does it, either. I downloaded the file both from here and apolyton to check it, and both are the correct version. And the file I uploaded (I always keep them) is in fact the correct file.

So there are 3 situations which would explain these occurances, and 0-3 may actually be occuring (or all are occurring, but none are the problem):

1) Caching. Either through browser, proxy, or 'other', the page/file is somehow being cached. For the page itself this makes sense, but not with the file.

2) Forum oddness. When the file is moved around on the server to be properly placed and listed for download, it may somehow get delayed so that some people get the old version, while everyone there after get the new one.

3) Faulty installation. Either pointing to the wrong directory or, equally likely, not overwriting a file when prompted.



So for those having problems, redownload the file. Once it's done open the zip file, then open the changelog.txt file. If the first date listed is "01/24/01" (yeah it should be /02, but I made a mistake in typing...lol), then it's the correct zip file.

Try unzipping the file again then seing again if you have the right verion.


If this doesn't solve your problem, be sure to post/email about it so I can try to get to the bottom of it.




Puffer Fish:

Hold on there, I already agree with you ;)

What I meant by "It's not like aircraft can really sink ships anyway", is the in Civ3 aircraft can't sink ships. Well, apparently they kinda can, but being that you can't bombard a ship with 1 HP, it makes things rather difficult.

You could reduce the HP of course, but it's a trade-off I had to make in this instance. Equally so is that ships bombarding other ships past the early industrial age won't be all that successful, because that's when defense goes way above bombard ability.


So actually I believe that aircraft _should_ be able to sink ships, and they _do_ sink ships in real life, but in Civ3 they _can't_ - which is what I meant there :D

See, I'm perfectly innocent :king:


Oh, and glad your enjoying the mod. I believe that ERP4 is alot better, as I've dealt with some issues I hadn't even heard about before (like how the Musketman was actually a step down from Pikeman in many ways) and gets that way about as soon as you get halfway through the Middle Ages. Basically post-gunpowder and post-Astronomy, things definately get alot more interesting.

Enjoy it once you've finished your current game, and sounds like an excellant one :goodjob:

I often have trouble getting good even games, because I almost always get into a war at the begining of the Middle Ages, which typically allows me to increase my lands by 75% before halfway through the Middle Ages. A blessing and a curse, hehe.

But thanks to the mod, that means I'm only in the lead, now that I can't get hurt.

It's the AI that ensures I can't be hurt :p Bah!




EDIT: BTW, the "Fruit" is actually called "Fruit", not "Grapes", though Grapes are a part of the mod.

The 2 added resources are Fruit and Oasis.

And if there isn't an icon for it in the resource.pcx file...hmm, gotta check my label file...

...well, damn. :o :sheep:

Ok, try redownloading the non-labeled resource file from the website if you don't have a graphic.

Kinda put the wrong version of it in the file...tee, hee. :sheep:

I dont really like the idea of having the LWC ERP4 as a scenario. I cant play my old saves w\ the new mod....or would they now work anyway???:confused:

Does anyone know if its safe to try to use other mods of custom civs with this mod? Or, has anyone tried it and run into any problems because I'm thinking of getting a few mods of other civs and don't want to have problems because different mod packs.

Oh, and I just got the new erp4 version, can't wait to try it out :D

Instead of installing the game again, any other way to restore back to normal ??

Not if you didn't back up files before you went in and overwritted the original files or put in the files from the mod. :(

Originally posted by Plutarck
It appears to me that somehow, early on after a release (or some small time thereafter), some people download the file and rather than getting the new version, they get the old version!

...

1) Caching. Either through browser, proxy, or 'other', the page/file is somehow being cached. For the page itself this makes sense, but not with the file.
It's definitely caching. I've had a problem with it as well when changing the attachment through editing posts.

'So actually I believe that aircraft _should_ be able to sink ships, and they _do_ sink ships in real life, but in Civ3 they _can't_ - which is what I meant there

See, I'm perfectly innocent'

Aren't we all :D. Yes sorry didn't mean to offend - I'm probably taking it all too literally these days and this is a problem with game really.

Another thing I think they've really missed is the modern day culture - what about cinemas, theme parks, tv etc to keep large populations content. It's not all about temples !

When I load a world map (or any map) into the LWC mod with Civ3CopyTool, I cannot build naval units. I don't know if this applies to other units as well, but I know the Coracle, Galley and other early ships never become buildable. If I play the mod on random maps (without loading a map into the bic file), everything works fine. Why does this happen? :confused:

Anyone easle getting this or did i screw up the install.
Just got ERP4 and installed it. havent played a game with it yet but going back to my current standard rules game.
i found that in he build que and the garrison list some units have the wrong graphic. (also the loaded unit popup for armys)
My Army leader looks like a rifleman and my workers are marines or machine gunners or something, settlers are some other infan unit.

I figure some of the stuff in the graphics files got out of order?
Or perhaps its in the unit INI files.

As far as i can tell the units apearance on the worldmap is correct.
its the garrison, build menu and loaded units lists that are messed up

(Edit) BTW my game is in the industrial age.

It seems as though once I build an aqueduct in a city; I can no longer build the Forbidden Palace in that city? Is this Civ3 or the mod? Beats me!

Well I found the problem, and it applys to all improvements which give a defense bonus.

In short, if a city is Size 2 Civ3 will not allow it to build an improvement that has a defense value, alla "Walls".

So Forbidden Palace and National Bank can only be built in Size 2 citys, which was the same as in erp3 but apparently noone noticed it...go figure.


*sigh* Well, I'll be removing the defense bonus from forbidden palace and national bank, but I think I'm just going to leave it on Palace anyway. The effect is just too good.

Yet another example of why hard-coding such things is pure, unadulterated, idiocy, but nothing much I can do about it.

I'll hold off on releasing ERP5 to fix this problem, as well as trying to fix a minor unit icon problem (I swore I had it fixed...), in case any other such bugs manage to popup their ugly little heads.



Joben: Yup, that's one of those "can't get around it" things, because I have to modify the file the default game uses so it will be correct regarding the LWC Mod.


Illoigor: Don't know why that happens, but you might try asking Gramphos about it. Could be a bug in the copytool.


Puffer Fish:

True, but I'm not really sure that happiness isn't already entirely managable. With Shrine, Temple, Colleseum, and Cathedral, that gives 7 happy people. Along with the 1 citizen born content on Diety, that means you could have at least a size 15 (or 16) city without requiring any entertainers, luxury taxes, or luxury resources. And that doesn't count any Marketplace bonuses.

But perhaps as culture-only improvements, but A) it seems the culture victory is easy enough and B) would it really be worth building it?

It could reduce war weariness, though...perhaps that and a little culture, maybe a happy person or 2, and that would make it a worthy improvement.

What tech to put it with, though? And which particular improvement?

Good job on ERP4, but whenever I try to build a coracle, I get a Civilization3.exe error. I'll work around it, but I thought you should know.

Originally posted by Plutarck

Joben: Yup, that's one of those "can't get around it" things, because I have to modify the file the default game uses so it will be correct regarding the LWC Mod.


hmmm ok.

lost track of all the pics ive switched for this. :crazyeyes
what is the name of the file or files that have those icons in them?
might wanna switch them back and forth when i play diff rules.


nice work btw.
One of the nice little things i like is the ZoC on archer units and other long range attack units.

What does the bombard streangth and rate of fire do on no artilary combat units?........
*thinks about arty* O!! does this meen they once per turn take a free shot at
a unit that attacks them? damn thas cool makes sence that long ranged units should get a volley off before the battle is joined. and i was just gona complain that crossbowmen (and their standard rules predicesor longbowman) had a idioticaly weak defence value.

Plutark: Possible bug. Cannot convert entertainers into scientists or taxmen. Tried right and left clicking on the entertainer and nothing happens.

Originally posted by krenn
Plutark: Possible bug. Cannot convert entertainers into scientists or taxmen. Tried right and left clicking on the entertainer and nothing happens.

Not sure if this is the whole issue but "Taxman/Banker" and scientist's now have pre-requsites before they can be "switched". Not sure of the top o me head what the pre-req's are... check the read me and change log. Hope this helps. :crazyeyes

Great Job!!!:D Ran a large map game w/irrigation and unit icon mod w/erp-4... Ran darn near perfect!:goodjob: Plutarck I doubt I will ever play regular Civ3 again:p

The only points of critique are: The National bank Def- bonus thing noted above, not a show stopper but it puzzled me (Big news there!).

Also on the very minor... When ordering a War Caravelle on the city screen the art is for the Bomber. I thought for a second i might be on the verge of a techno-coup... Imagine the astonishment of the Aztecs in this case as a fleet o very irregular "War Caravelle's" Bomb thier landlocked cities to oblivion
:rolleyes: Alas no, i got regular war caravelles, No crash though!

And not to beat the horse again but... Resource depletion is quite a prob. I find my game driven always by the search for Iron specifically, and horses to a lesser degree. The other resources seem to be less of a prob. if @ all. This is the only point that seems better w/ the original civ3. BUT... I wonder if this may be a result of 1. Changes to the game via patches 1.08-1.16, or 2. possibly by the addition of more units and "stuff" using iron, ponies ect.?? just guessing. End result- I hate this issue, i am thinking of changing the Depletion ratio down as Plutarck suggested but am not clear on the technical method of how and where? I am not the brightest w/ file changes ect. anybody clear on the detail of how and where?

I have a question.

When you build the national consitution, forbidden palace etc., I know it counts as a palace but does it really give the same effect as a palace as far as the possibility of a culture flip? I remember reading somewhere else that it doesn't and if this is true, then it seems like you should remove the defense bonus from the palace so that we can move it. An alternative would be to create a new city improvementonly for the city with the palace that cost virtually nothing (I don't know if 0 is possible, but 1 is the same for practical purposes) and had no maintenence. Great Job on the mod, I've been playing it a lot lately and it's great!:cooool:

played some ERP4.

im enclosing a game save with some odd stuff.

First off fruit doesnt seem to work. i am suposed to have some some fruit but it doesnt do anything and its not in my luxery box.
There is a colony on it marked as gettting fruit. there is a road to the colony right to my capitol.

second: if you play it some horses will aprear near one of my citys on the
next turn, all fine and dandy but when i go back to look for them as soon as i can move the screen again they arnt there!
just press next turn and it should do it.
I know they are suposed to jump around a bit but this is too much ;) :rolleyes:
is it a fluke or a bug? I didnt get a 'supply exhausted' message

ooopsie i took it down for editing to give it a recogizable name and i cant get it back up.
So i put it here:

As Puffer Fish mentioned, this game really lacks the modern time culture. This was partially addressed with Ahenobarb's 'Mass Culture Modpack'. However, this is a very complicated issue, which requires several new techs, improvements, small and big wonders, perhaps new population type (I like the idea of Celebrity that upgrades Entertainer).
Seeing you put a lot of thought and careful planning in your modpack, I'm sure you wouldn't just 'throw in' couple of things to represent modern culture. I suggest that you first complete and release the modpack as it is, and then work on modern culture.

Keep up the great work you're doing!

spent the last few days playing lwc4 ... good good stuff .... i kept a log of bugs for u also :)


"Well I found the problem, and it applys to all improvements which give a defense bonus.

In short, if a city is Size 2 Civ3 will not allow it to build an improvement that has a defense value, alla "Walls".

So Forbidden Palace and National Bank can only be built in Size 2 citys, which was the same as in erp3 but apparently noone noticed it...go figure."

this is NOT the case!! ... i built the forbidden palace in a size 6 city in my recent game ... national constitution in a size 8 city

u cant build to close to your other capital citys! .. mebey u are doing that? but i DEFINATLY built em im my game (got some saves for ya to ;) )

anywho ... some bugs .... well lots of the small pictures for stuff ... i got a bit of a list if u want em ....small fries
the infantry doesnt have a pillage command ... mebey some other units also ... something for all the kiddies to look out for u
the stratigic resorces at the top of the city screen, if u have another one it will begin to clutter and foul the top info

i think this time u have got most of the resorces spot on!! exept horses ... they seem to dissapear alot (and reapear alot ... but dissapear more) ... and it does seem that im not getting messages about dissapearing resorses .... or new ones sometimes ... but with labels on the resorses it very easy to find em

and did u know that resorces that resporn are coming up in other places that they couldnt have been when the map was generated

do u want all the nitty gritty graphical bugs yet? ... there are lots ... but isnt really important yet .... at least i dont think so (balance and coolness are priority now) ... anywho .. great mod! and happy modding

Originally posted by Joben
First off fruit doesnt seem to work. i am suposed to have some some fruit but it doesnt do anything and its not in my luxery box.
There is a colony on it marked as gettting fruit. there is a road to the colony right to my capitol.


*whacks forehead* 'fruit' is a bonus reasorce right? Boy is my face red. :o
I thought of that as soon as i posted the above but i had already shut down my comp. :lol:

Originally posted by Joben

*whacks forehead* 'fruit' is a bonus reasorce right? Boy is my face red. :o
I thought of that as soon as i posted the above but i had already shut down my comp. :lol:
While we're at it, I think fruit and oasis should be made a bonus resource after all. I just don't like my trade advisor saying "We have only one source of Oasis, let's trade with friends..." or it popping up in my negotiations. :)

Originally posted by Lovro

While we're at it, I think fruit and oasis should be made a bonus resource after all. I just don't like my trade advisor saying "We have only one source of Oasis, let's trade with friends..." or it popping up in my negotiations. :)

Heh Yep I see that alot to, and the first time I thought I was seeing things. Kinda got funny after a few times :lol: So I agree with Lovro that it should be a bonus instead.

About Oasis/Fruit: They definately _should_ be actual bonus resources, but there's a fine reason I didn't make them that. In the editor try opening up the .bic, setting the 2 resources to Bonus, then have the editor generate a map for you (say no about "save changes?", so it won't interfere with your actual .bic file).

The result is the same problem as with Cotton, in that it becomes a Cotton World! It'll be Oasis and Fruit all over the dag-blame place, which is really obsurd in regards to Oasis.

So for as long as I can't control appearance ratios of Bonus resources, I have to have them as either Strategic or Luxury resources.

It would make sense if Fruit was a luxury (I might have to change it to Bananas, because it goes odd with Grapes...I think I'll do that now for ERP5), but A) I don't really want another luxury for now and B) it still wouldn't fix Oasis.




Now for the main reason of this posting, I thought I'd share a new item in the changelog (not available online yet):


-Horses, Iron: Both have a +10 disappearance ratio, which I'm hoping will just be enough to massage them down to still disappearing and reappearing a reasonable amount of time, without being too stable.

I personally saw the pleasantness of the moving around, as it certainly adds more urgency to things. At one time I had 3 sources of Iron, yet soon after I had only 1 source of iron, which I was already trading away! I believed I ended up cancelling that route, but I'm thinking it may have ticked off the Chinese (whom I was trading it too).

I also managed to tick off the entire world when I made peace with the Greeks, whom I got the entire world to declare war upon - just a middle link in a line of bad decisions, leaving me widely detested. But much like Microsoft and Bill Gate's, I'm left with all my bridges burned but with such a large resource and territory advantage - as well as a reasonable lead in technology (due mostly to unsavory political maneuvering, well-timed devastating invasions leading to the extinction of my greatest rivals/neighbors, and heavy funding to research and development) - that my new enemys (all of whom were my allies to various degrees in past times, turned enemys by my often ruthless opportunism as much as my political gaffes and lack of consideration of world opinion) can do nothing to stop me, and are too afraid (and too weak) to explicitly state their displeasure of me.

They may insult the memory of the War Charioteers and Horsemen that died in the service of "The Peerless Golden Age Army of Egyptian" history (the topic of so many legends, originally formed by but a comparitively few great men who overcame great odds to ensure Egypt's future as the grandest nation ever imagined) with their self-righteous ingratitude, shake their fists as my Peerless Cavalry cut down the infidels who seek the death and enslavement of us all, curse me as I utilize captured and refurbished artillery against the enemys who sought to use them to destroy this peerless land, and constantly nay-say our new Utensils of Defense (tentively refered to as "Tanks" and "Aeroplanes") - but make no two ways about it, when their so-called "Empires" are brought under the Enlightened Rule by The New Golden Age Army, these blasphemers will hang their heads in disgrace for but a few moments before becoming the kind of filthy mindless sycophants who dirty our streets, seek to steal our hard-owned gold, and all the while can speak only good of The Enlightened Rule.

No matter, they will serve us through life (whether they intend to or not) and perhaps one day their children will see the light of truth and join us brothers and sisters of Eternal Egypt.


But I wanted to leave Egypt's warlike past behind, I really did. I may be King, but I'm no despot. And as a sign of this I made a formal rival - the Greeks - my friends, only to have them invade my lands. After the quick destruction of their empire and the dubious peace deal that angered the rest of the world, I formed a full Democracy! Oh how we prospered...for a while. But as reperation for my past snubbing of my allies, and to gain back territory that had turned traitor after the war, I agreed to war the Greeks one final time. 2 completely decisive battles later the Greeks were down to but 1 city, ready to fall, when suddenly riots filled the streets in protest! How could these fools not see wisdom in this decision to rid the world of such a lying traitor?

Clearly, common Egyptians are not capable of ruling such a grand empire, so I have been forced to reinstate the Enlightened Rule and declare that this shall be a new Golden Age for Egypt, which shall see our homeland become united and impenetrable, leading to the fall of the primordial enemies of global welfare!


...good god, I've become a warmongering despot without actually wanting to. Hmm...kind of makes one consider the infamous figures of history in a less deified/putrified light.



Anyway, thus is one major problem with Civ3: It doesn't prompt you about doing something that'll offend another civ, leaving you guessing as to what does and does not violate treatys, leading to all kinds of problems presented by ill-explained game mechanics. *sigh*

But hey, it's actually quite fun. I think I'll go finish that game now *WEG*.

Originally posted by Plutarck
About Oasis/Fruit: They definately _should_ be actual bonus resources, but there's a fine reason I didn't make them that. In the editor try opening up the .bic, setting the 2 resources to Bonus, then have the editor generate a map for you (say no about "save changes?", so it won't interfere with your actual .bic file)......

Funny.....I have the exact same two items in my own mod as bonus resources too but they don't spawn that much in my games :confused:

At least I won't call it Oasis world or something ;) In fact, sometime their spawn rate is so low I only see a few of them :p I definitely like to be able to control the spawn rate of bonus resources just like the other two resources type.

I modded erp4 to have fruit and oasis as bonus resources because it made more sense and lots of luxuries make the game less challenging (despite my constant whining about never getting any luxury resources and the fact that I tried to add one myself); setting them as strategic resources with no strategic value is more sensible. However, they certainly haven't overspawned on my map - which is 256x256 which might have something to do with it; although the first time I added cotton, I too ended up playing in cotton world.
The LWC mods have been great:goodjob: ; I was playing .7 from the time it came out until I finally converted to erp4 for the game I'm currently in. I am only half way through the second age but so far the changes in units/unit values are very good - although I do miss my mighty horsemen/valiant knights. Shrines are also a great addition, making control of happiness much easier on higher levels. I also like mills because more shields are always a good thing.
I do have some questions about adding resources and this is the best thread to get expert feedback. I have five extra resources - Oasis and Fruit from erp4 as bonus plus timber (strategic - required for all the 'intermediate' wooden ships), sheep (something to add food to hills and dry terrain) and coffee (luxury). However, I can only have 'new' pictures for the first two. If I have unique pictures for the next three, they don't appear (they may be there and invisible, but I am too lazy to click every tile to find them, there are a lot of tiles on a 256x256 map). However, if I reuse one of the first 21 icons, the extra resources appear and as the additional resource. My first question is whether this is an absolute limit of the game, at least as of 1.16f or is there a clever way to do it better? My second question is that coffee was not one of the first two extra resources and the game crashed as soon as I built a road to coffee within a city limit. It had also crashed when I tried to build an embassy with the Iroquois who had coffee - but I didn't figure out why until after the second crash. So the multi-part question is whether to add an extra luxury resource, I have to have:
a) a unique icon for it
b) it in one of the first two extra resource slots
c) some additional mod to the bic file
d) some combination of the above or something else entirely
So far the game hasn't crashed with the appearance of timber and the non-unique icon appears in the strategic resource box in the city view but I haven't quite got to the point where the first unit requires timber as a prerequisite. When it does, am I likely to have the same problem, for the same reasons, as I did with Coffee? I got around the coffee problem by changing it to a bonus resource and the game accepted that happily. I will do the same with timber because the current game is a good one that I want to continue. However, I would like to be able to add strategic and maybe luxury resources so any advice on this will be gratefully accepted.
By the way, as a player of the English, the change in UU to Longbowmen is great; without them fighting off the Impi and Immortal hordes would have been almost impossible (32 cities, one horse which disappeared just before chivalry; and now an isolated colony with a rushed port to once again have a horse. I also only have one iron so my army is very precariously supported indeed).
Thanks for all your work on this; it has made an excellent game even better. :goodjob:

there is probably a really simple answer to this, but how do i use the LWC mod in conjunction with another user created map?

i love the mod but as you have to use the "load scenario" option off the main menu and select the LWC mod, i cant load up another map.
The random maps the game generates are rubbish in comparison to the maps from this website, so please help.

sorry for my ignorance.

I love this mod but it keeps bombing out on me everytime that I get to about 1750 AD. I can usually restart the game and continue to play from the last autosave but it will bomb out again soon. The farther I go the worse it gets. I'm playing on a fairly large map with about 8 other civs. Think this has anything to do with it? I don't know but it sure is frustrating.

Justin C. :cool:

Originally posted by Joben

*whacks forehead* 'fruit' is a bonus reasorce right? Boy is my face red. :o
I thought of that as soon as i posted the above but i had already shut down my comp. :lol:

*whacks head twice*
that was embarasing it IS a strategic reasorce.
thats silly...

Also "want to buy my oasis?" is a sureal concept.

Hey Joben, perhaps its a moveable Oasis on wheels? (Like a parade float) :lol: (Guess you have to have seen that Kids in the Hall episode about the atrium on wheels heh.) :crazyeyes:

I do have one other comment though, and that is thanks Plutarck for making the Oasis! :) I mean when I used to start in a desert it felt like such a waste with so few bonuses (the rate and types)and barely any food. Now I dont mind starting in a desert anymore. :king:

so what is it with oasis and fruit? i changed them with the editor and i got a few clumps of 2 or 3 but no oasis worlds or anything... i did notice on a few maps i generated that the size of the desserts didnt matter for the numbers of oasis generated ... so worlds with small desserts get big clumps of oasis, but i dont think it is very serious though ... i think it is better than having them in the stratigic resorces ... so i hope that firaxis will let us set the frequency of bonus resorces

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Selous
[B]so what is it with oasis and fruit? i changed them with the editor and i got a few clumps of 2 or 3 but no oasis worlds or anything...

On the subject o changing the ERP-4 scenario.bic via the editor...
Plutarck suggested using the editor to lower the disappearance ratio witnin the erp-4 scnerio.bic... went into that file within the editor and lowerd disp. on Iron and Horses, also noticed that gems were @ 0/0 ?? So I changed that one also. Set disapp. for Iron and Horses @ 30 to see what happens. Started a scenario which crashed immediatley, twice. Any suggestions? Are there certain perameters I need to stay within to not mess up ERP-4??

I regstered to just to tell you what an amazing talent you have. Now if your good with the programming aspect of games you will definatly become a success in the gaming industry . Thnaks for this mod.

I just barely browsed through it but I see a lot of balancing done most I love. Some im gonna correct for my own preference and historic balancing. But the change to the ships are awesome now they accrutly represent the real attack and defense values. Now my battleships wont even be scratched by the ironclads! And my carriers will actually require other ship support.

Anyways I know you prbably ansewer this but is there any way for you to make real animations? Like for the buildings without copying the existing ones? And will you add entries for all the units in the civitopia in the future?

Thanks again for the mod and keep up the good work.

When i play now after downloading erp4 i seem to get a performed illegal operation message and it closes my game. The date at which it happens seems to vary slightly. The last game it happened at 650bc. I think i downloaded the correct one. I got it from a link of plutracks(forgive my spelling) but maybe im missing some files or something. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Sounds like a fun mod. I read all data in the Bic - before playing. Sadly game crashes around 2000BC- looks like I will never enjoy it. I had previously installed other mods without having any ill-effects. I allways do a reinstall before changing to a new mod- so the problem is not conflict between mods. Any suggestions or help are welcome- as I would love to be able to play LWC.

ASIDE: Is there anyway to make the aircraft attacks kill units as the cruise missle does? (airpower rules the world and isn´t worth anything in this game) Would also be cool to be able to load helicopter onboard carrier.:(

Thank you for the personal reply (Plutarch).
The game still crashes- I have sent an E-mail to your yahoo address (with enclosed save game -standard settings map).
Please help -I would still very much love to implement the mod as the game without the mod lacks so very much.
:(

ANNOUNCEMENT! ERP5 has been released! Download it below, which is linked from the first page (or will be in a minute).

From the changelog:

-NEW VERSION: Long Winded Changes, Early Release Preview 5 (ERP5). Changes the bonus resources provided by most resources (all changes are increases), tweaked the disappearance probability on Horses and Iron to make them 'move' less, changed Fruit to Bananas, fixed all the building bugs (including not being able to build some, and the coastal defense installations), minorly tweaked some unit costs, tinkered with a few naval unit abilitys (added Blitz to some...), and a few more minor changes.

The file is now called "LWC Mod ERP5.bic" to avoid confusing people. Load it as a Scenario to play with the changes. You must start a new game to see the changes, you can't just change the file name and load a saved game.

This version is a reccommended update for all users, and will not break (or effect) any old saved games. You will however need to reinstall the addon packs (like extra unit animations and non-labeled resource file), though those addon packs have not changed for this version.

NOTE: When unzipping the mod remember to OVERWRITE all the files it asks you about, or the mod may not install properly!




I'll get to the other replys as soon as I get the chance. I'll see if I can't track down the cause of the problems and solve 'em.

Got work in a few hours and have a few other things I have to attend to, so it'll probably have to wait till tommarrow.

###############################################
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DOWNLOAD HERE ##################################


Enjoy, and let me know what you think!

Oh, and be sure to read the first post in this thread, too, as I've updated it.


ERP1 removed after 199 downloads.
ERP2 removed after 256 downloads.
ERP3 removed after 1566 downloads.
ERP4 removed after 602 downloads.

Download the mod here:

I have resolved the crash problem myself. I had noticed a "not belonging" civ3 file in C: drive after each crash. I tried renaming all files to thier English language translations (i.e. "archivos de programas" a "program files" etc.) - I had success. In short the problem was because of having Civ3 installed to non-english directories (wierd that only with LWC though). Nothing ever really makes any sense in the world these days.
The mod now works "GREAT WORK".
Absolutely ALL of the tech icons are incorrect. Maybe someone could distribute a list of thier correct graphics numbers for easy editing.
If you do decide on 2 UU for each civ - I will share the following ideas...
American = give them back thier F-15 or special nuc (air power and nucs make them super power)

English = the Brits had the largest empire the world has ever known - due to the royal navy (UU has to be a 16 century era unit)
Japanese = has to be kamakaze unit ( I´m thinking a cruise missle available with flight and with fighter graphics.

Russian = a Spetznaz (like special ops) or a hind helicopter - someone has allready done the work for both units, however, I cannot vouch for thier quality as have not tried them.

ASIDE1: My oppinion also is that there are two governments the game should include (Nationalism/Fascism and Theocracy/Fundamentalism) they should not be over-rated.

ASIDE2: I still wish there was a way to make the airplane bombardments kill units not just wound them, and a way to put the helicopter on board the carrier.

THANKS TO PLUTARCH FOR ALL HIS EFFORTS.

...I am just going to download LWCERP5 right now....

GraceofBhaal: ON page 5 (i think), i told that to plutark. He said it would take him a long time to fix, becuase the icons are "hard-wired" into the game...:( ......Sorrry, but he doesnt have time to fix it.

I've been playing the LWC the last few days. It is such an improvement on what Sid slapped together, both historically and in game execution, that I will keep on with Civ III for awhile thanks to it.

Great job.

Some things I wonder about:

Longbowmen have zones of control - but Horsemen do not?!? I changed that in the Editor. Workers should also be able to pillage, as should the majority of infantry (but not warriors and chariots).

An irrigated hill tile seems to produce like a grassland tile, or so it seemed. I wonder if the same is true with deserts. (?). They should be irrigatable, but not at the same level.

I'd prefer different types of hill tiles - for desert hills and jungle hills.

I changed barbarian War Galley to Man-O-War - just an English-specific Ship-o- the-Line with a few more attack and defense points. Barbarians can make do with galleys.

I wonder if I should drop the cost (and strength) of Minutemen by one each.

Too many inappropriate units still have airlift capability, such as elephants. Yes, elephants.

Tanks should not have blitz. That was why Panzers were so much better than Allied tanks - the blitz.

Armies - load of '4' instead of '3'. Makes leaders more important for combat, as it should be.

I lowered the cost a bit for everything related to Spying and Espionage.

Some strategic resources seem a little too rare, with too high a disappearance probability.

The problem of warships being unable to be sunk by any bomber I don't think has been resolved. This is a MAJOR PROBLEM.

I wish there was a way to allow privateers and submarines to damage trade by merely being present on trade routes, but I suppose the code would have to be rewritten. Too bad.


But all in all, LWC is so good it shows Sid and Firaxis what they could have done if they weren't in such a rush. The new units and techs are very appropriate. (I would like an Eifel Tower as in Civ II, though). The white circles on map resources are very useful (esp. for coal). And so on. :goodjob:

darn you stop working so fast! ;)
im only like halfway through my ERP4 game :crazyeyes


btw the defensive bombard on units that gives them a free shot is great.
i put it into my personaly tweaked version for archer units.


Question about the AI: how will the AI deal with a unit haveing offence and
defence flags? im trying putting dual flags on units whoes attack and def are equal like Samuri and Legionarys.
anyone tried this before? does it work? does it change anything?

And about AIRPLANES. lots of ppl complain about how they cant kill units because they are bombard only.
Has anyone tried just takeing off the 'imoble' flag and giving them movement points and reasonable attacks?

Just a couple of questions.

What ever happened to the mighty stallions as a resource and mighty horsemen, knights. I really liked those.

Other than that...what's with the fruit and oasis bouncing around as a strategic resource? Is that fixed in version 5?

These questions are in refrence to pre-patch mod and version 4.

I'd like to say this is the best mod out there. Thank you for all your time Plutarck. :goodjob:

Originally posted by Joben
And about AIRPLANES. lots of ppl complain about how they cant kill units because they are bombard only.
Has anyone tried just takeing off the 'imoble' flag and giving them movement points and reasonable attacks?


Bombers being unable to sink any warship is SO stupid, so non-historical, I rarely even bother playing the game after Flight is discovered.

I guess Sid never heard of Pearl Harbor, or all of WW II in the Pacific.

In Editor, I gave all bombers attack and defense values, unclicked 'immobile', and gave them movement points. They now can fly around and never need a base. Unfortunately, bombers may be able to be attacked by land units now. It's still more realistic than the nonsense Firaxis gave us.

Fighters may need to also have MP's.

Along with Culture Flipping, bombers being unable to sink warships is so idiotic and absurd it may be worse than even the hated Culture Flipping cities and borders. :mad: :mad:

Is it intentional that you can no longer upgrade your spearmen all the way to mech infantry? Infantry upgrades to modern infantry but then it stops there...?

Other than that and the points raised about the planes not being able to sink ships (exocet missiles in the falklands, pearl harbour, etc..) this mod is great.

Also, another question. Has anyone considered adding a whole new age to the game?

James Wilkinson

Originally posted by jwilkinson100
Is it intentional that you can no longer upgrade your spearmen all the way to mech infantry? Infantry upgrades to modern infantry but then it stops there...?

(cut)

Also, another question. Has anyone considered adding a whole new age to the game?
(infantry) Probably so, and I personally found it a good thing.

(eras) Quite a few people have, I imagine, but someone from Firaxis dispersed all those considerations saying that the game is made to be played with four eras (it probably means that many things are hardcoded) and that it is imposibble to add another one. :(

Originally posted by Troyens



Bombers being unable to sink any warship is SO stupid, so non-historical, I rarely even bother playing the game after Flight is discovered.

I guess Sid never heard of Pearl Harbor, or all of WW II in the Pacific.

In Editor, I gave all bombers attack and defense values, unclicked 'immobile', and gave them movement points. They now can fly around and never need a base. Unfortunately, bombers may be able to be attacked by land units now. It's still more realistic than the nonsense Firaxis gave us.

Fighters may need to also have MP's.

Along with Culture Flipping, bombers being unable to sink warships is so idiotic and absurd it may be worse than even the hated Culture Flipping cities and borders. :mad: :mad:

Thank you!! :goodjob: LoL Someone agrees, I mean I have been screaming (emails left and right heh :) ) this to Fraxis since the games release.
Maybe if enough of us complain they might me more likely to be compeled to fix this in the games programming and not sit there on there butts and be content with a product that is just "alright" when there so close to what could be perfect.:confused:
I mean comeon Fraxis you could have a perfect game here, you just need to put some work into it!:king: I am kinda starting to think you guys wanted to under achieve sometimes heh. :crazyeyes
Oh BTW Great work on release 5 Plutarck, no problems for me :egypt: . I did have a few crashes at first but I uninstalled Civ3 and started over with a fresh install and everything is fine :) (I figured it was left over from older versions of the mods)

Originally posted by Troyens



Bombers being unable to sink any warship is SO stupid, so non-historical, I rarely even bother playing the game after Flight is discovered.

I guess Sid never heard of Pearl Harbor, or all of WW II in the Pacific.

In Editor, I gave all bombers attack and defense values, unclicked 'immobile', and gave them movement points. They now can fly around and never need a base. Unfortunately, bombers may be able to be attacked by land units now. It's still more realistic than the nonsense Firaxis gave us.

Fighters may need to also have MP's.

, bombers being unable to sink warships is so idiotic and absurd it may be worse than even the hated Culture Flipping cities and borders. :mad: :mad:

hmm i was afraid they wouldnt ever need to go back to a base.

BTW are the various crash bugs for LWC fixed?
was just talkin to a guy who has been having trouble
with mods and was wondering what to tell him.

If not for LWC, I'd be playing "Empire Earth" by now. Good mod!
A big improvement over Sid's mess.

WARNING:

But be sure to check in Editor all the values. I found a few weird things such as the units you can upgrade to. Also tweak it as you like it.

Plutarck, I found a problem with ERP4 in the modern era: my Cavalries didn't feel like upgrading to Modern Armors, ditto for Carriers -> Nuclear Carriers. Had no problem with Destroyers. I can feed you the save if you want.

Also, on another note, I think the cost of Modern Infantry / Assault Troops is too big for anyone to build them instead of Mech Infantry / Modern Armor. Altough infantry is great for airdropping, they are slow and pale in comparison to Mech units. You might wanna decrease the defense strength of Mech Infantry or increase it for Modern Infantry, so Mech wouldn't be that much better than Modern.

Just a thought....

Is it possible to make a resource disappear as you use it? For example the horses....they disappeared before I even built anything that would use them. It seems as though you would save the resource in real life until a later time. So the horses would be kept in a pen until could build cavalry for example. Another reason horses should stay is horses breed and therefore are a lasting resource. The same should be with any resource that can be grown, or bred. Resources such as uranium, rubber, etc should disappear because those resources arent reusable.

Another Item:
I wish there was a way to make a silo or something so would store the resources you werent using for a later time. That way they wouldnt be a waste when you are not building anything with them. So at that moment when u can finally get carriers or get tanks and your rubber or oil suddenly disappears without even using it.


Anohter Note:
Barbarians...I think you set them too strong. I had it on roving and they were everywhere, coming out in groups of 2 or 3 early on in the game.

Question: Is there a way when you build the new building you have created or wonders, to have them show up in the city upgrades window?

So far everything else seems cool, there are some really good things so far, but im only a bit into the game so far. Its nice to see the time put into this.

nEo,

Before I changed a lot of Sid's stupid values in the Editor, I once found one iron tile on an island a fair bit from my homeland. It was the only iron tile I knew of anywhere. Luckily, I was able to reach it with a galley.

I built a town on that island, and started building roads. BEFORE that town even built a harbor, and ten turns after a worker built a road on the iron tile, IT DISAPPEARED. :crazyeyes

After that idiocy I went in Editor and made iron a lot easier to find and a lot less likely to vanish. I sugest you do the same.

UNIT SUGGESTION:

for those of us not enamored of barbarians, we can go into Editor and change a few of them. Their war galley became an English-specific Man-o-War with a slightly higher combat value.

I also took one ofthe barbarian land units and changed it to HORSE CANNON - a French-specific unit with 2 MP's instead of one, and one less combat point. I also made it one more shield in expense. Same time period as cannon.

This should give Napoleonic-era French a bit of a bombardment advantage, which is as it should be for that time.

Actually Im new to this whole thing. Didnt even know I could change the game settings like that, guess i'll have to play with the editor a bit then.

I ran into taht same problem with coal the toher day. THere were only 2 coal resources on the map and they were in the direct middle of the Zulu camp on the other side of the world. It sucked because I couldn't build railroads and I just got frustrated. Sucked even more because I couldnt trade with that team. Life in CivIII...

Hey Joben, well personally Im not having the crashes anymore(But I sure as hell was before :lol: ). I just uninstalled the game and did a fresh install the then did the patch and the LWC mod and everything seems fine for me. I mean I finished 2 games heh I think thats proof. :) I dont know if it will work for everyone though. :confused: Hope so though. Also I am not to sure they are *because* of the LWC mod, some other posts are having similar complaints. Might just be left over mods in the way after upgrading to 1.16. At least thats my thought. I just dont think Civ3 is altering friendly heh.
(heh took this long for a post i made yesterday to get on the boards, boards have been kinda odd the last few days :crazyeyes )
Also I checked out a few post made earlier by Troyens and I kinda agree that some resources disappear a bit to fast, maybe if some stayed in place a bit longer (or some just didnt move, i mean i do understand horses and such) I wouldnt have to basically abandon cities once the resources disappear. :(

The resource appearance/disappearance/value factors are about the easiest things to change in the editor and if you don't like something, change it. For example, if you play on larger maps, raise the appearance value as the game does not have a size factor built in, i.e. for a given number of civs (there is a #civ multiplier in the generator apparently), an appearance value of 100 will give the same number of resource tiles of that type - which means that there will be relatively alot on a tiny map and it will be really scarce on very large maps. I also agree with the comments about horses disappearing - there were domesticated and bred for farming and war very early in history. I set there disappearance value to zero to reflect that. Overall, the LWC mods have been great but I'm still on erp4 since my current game is very competitive and interesting.

My LWC 5pack was working great untill it started to crash in 1585 AD. nothing I tried worked. Could someone take a look and tell me ow to avoid it. I would really like to finish this game.

I now have XP Home Edition installed. I am building a war frigate and in my build que it looks like a bomber? You pack alot in this mod and it seems to crash for unknown reasons. Really be nice if Firaxis would get off their ass and get a good solid tested patch to us so you designers can go to town unimpeded with these little crash bugs.
I find that if I do what I like change the name, generate my own world, hugh world with only 8 civs, the game seems to crash with 98 and win 2k during industrial or modern age. In fact most all of the mods I have tried have crashed at that point. I have yet to complete one game because of one reason or another. :cry:
I had to restart 3 times too finally be able to play without crash right away. AGAIN, not your fault it is this unstable game. I have a real fast PC should not be having this many problems.
Another problem is the tech tree. It is totally messed up. When I hover over the techs with advisor, he is calling Navigation Economics for example. The directions leading from some of your changes do not make sense. I also found that whenever I build any ship it looks like a plane or bomber when being built, once built it has the correct graphics. Wrong FLIC are being used for the ships battling sequence, they no longer face one another during the battle sequences? Any ideas or am I the only one with these bugs? Thanks

Desert Fox

From Anglophile,

also agree with the comments about horses disappearing - there were domesticated and bred for farming and war very early in history


Of course. Horses are BRED. They are not mined. They do not run out unless stallions stop liking mares and start turning "Gay". Disappearance rate of zero.

Originally posted by nEo

Resources such as uranium, rubber, etc should disappear because those resources arent reusable.


Actualy rubber IS renewable. Rubber comes from rubber trees.
(no they arnt made of rubber, its refined sap or something...
it requres striping off the bark i think.)
modern rubber is often synthetic however because it requires less care.

Temporarily locked to deal with and clean up Threadjacking (culture flipping complaint ad nauseum and some mild flaming or trolling

Further actions are be dicussed among the moderators. Any posters feeling guilty or at risk for discipline should contact their most sympathetic moderators or administer (Thunderfall the All Merciful) by PM before the axe falls.

Edit: Thunderfall the All Knowing has dertermined that continuity is to be preserved and has merged the threads, In his great and beneficent mercy, he has decided that only a small example be made hade and that Zouave and Troyens be restricted fo 3 days, and Joben is warned not to post Off-topic posts.

Posters be: On topic; on target; and on reasonably polite behavior (it pains a CRUSTY old war gamer to say that last bit, but that behavior does improve the effective flow ideas here)

This is the new thread for the long winded changes mod, Erp5, and higher. The old thread was too waterlogged from obselete versions and off topic posts.

Posters, please remain on topic with posts germain to the mod.

Kool...i have the first post in this great topic...but to remain on topic, i will say that plutark has done an excelent job, but i still dont like that fact that you must play it as a scenario...:mad: i dont like it one bit...and i LOVED it when it replaced civ3mod.bic!!:D

I know you have done extencive work on the naval units attack and defence stats. However their movement is more of less the same.
Several times i has seen ppl complain about how naval units move FAR too slow esp in the industrial-modern age. Since then you can move a land unit all around your empire in one turn using rails but a fast high tech ship can only move a few squares. In real life modern ships can circle the globe in a short time. however it may take a many YEARS or so to land units on another continent.

So the gist of my question: Do you have any plans to try dramatic increases of naval movement rates? Say double of triple what it is now for most ships.

*remains rigidly on topic* :eek: ...:D

Originally posted by Goat_Guy
Kool...i have the first post in this great topic...but to remain on topic, i will say that plutark has done an excelent job, but i still dont like that fact that you must play it as a scenario...:mad: i dont like it one bit...and i LOVED it when it replaced civ3mod.bic!!:D

Ummm you could just rename the LWC bic to civ3mod.bic and replace the original. So then all your games would start as LWC witout having to load a 'scenario'.
I cant think of a reason why that wouldnt work. :king:

just dont try to enter the GotM with that setup :cool:

I thought I would give you some feedback on your mod. I have tried it under win 2k professional and now XP Home edition.
I will mention the XP errors only. The one error that kept coming up was when i quit the game, it always caused and error that I sent to MS.
The Tech tree is all messed up not a good flow. You need to edit the script file when ever you change or add a tech too.
The corruption problem needs too be addressed too. Overall I personally like your mod but the minor bugs and errors are annoying. Some are the games designers and programmers fault not yours. All of my games crashed during the modern era for some reason?
Maybe too many things are changed causing the editor too take a dump, I know I have caused that too happen many times. Makes no sense to have all these options for making mods if some of them you select will cause a crash? :crazyeyes
Win 2k had different errors then XP, seems like XP has less problems above all other OS. Keep up the good work. Be nice if you we could change some rules like auto-upgrade with leonardo workshop, walls for wall wonder, etc. looking for the new version be happy too beta test for you any time. :goodjob:

Desert Fox :p

This is a very good mod. Much better than the game mod which I won't even bother with now.

More techs and more units. It's everything Civ III should have been. More history, too.


A few minor suggestions:

Ironclads have much too high a defense value. It is all but impossible to take one out with another ironclad.

All naval units have too high a bombardment strength. Wooden ships probably shouldn't have any at all considering the range of their cannonball-firing cannon.

Submarines have a slightly too high attack value, and carriers slightly too low a defense value (they do have an intrinsic escort) in reality.

Check the upgrades for all units. Some units seem to upgrade to civ-specific units, which should be impssible for most civs. Ironclads appeared to upgrade to destroyers instead of steel warships. I can't understand that except to assume it's a mistake.

Resources? Horses never run out, and other strategic resources (especially coal) should be easier to find and less likely to vanish.

All these can be fixed in the Editor.

Oh yes, funny thing happened to me with coal. I am in the ironclad age (Industrial). After my coal ran out, I had to fight two wars to find other coal tiles. Soon after getting them, they ran out, too! (A problem corrected in the Editor). But, and here's the weird part, I could keep building steel warships and railroads. I checked the Advisor and a coal appeared near a city, but when I went to that city on the map I couldn't find it. That tile never got depleted for two hundred years and counting.

It seemed that if you reach a certain Age you will not be denied a coal resource. Which is good, but peculiar.

Anyway, good mod. The hell with the game mod.

Ok, I can probably answer some of these.

Originally posted by Supercilious
Check the upgrades for all units. Some units seem to upgrade to civ-specific units, which should be impssible for most civs. Ironclads appeared to upgrade to destroyers instead of steel warships. I can't understand that except to assume it's a mistake.This was introduced by Plutarck so you could, for example, upgrade a Spearman to a Musketeer if you are French (which you couldn't do in the regular Civ3 :confused: ).

Your obsolete unit will always upgrade to the most advanced unit in the upgrade chain that you are able to build. If you aren't the civ that can build the specific unit in question, the game will simply skip the specific unit in the upgrade chain.

A Ship of the Line upgrades to the Steel Warship, which then upgrades to the Destroyer. An Ironclad upgrades to the Destroyer immediately.

Oh yes, funny thing happened to me with coal. I am in the ironclad age (Industrial). After my coal ran out, I had to fight two wars to find other coal tiles. Soon after getting them, they ran out, too! (A problem corrected in the Editor). But, and here's the weird part, I could keep building steel warships and railroads. I checked the Advisor and a coal appeared near a city, but when I went to that city on the map I couldn't find it. That tile never got depleted for two hundred years and counting.Press Ctrl-Shift-M to check that the coal resource hasn't appeared directly on the city in question. You cannot see a resource if there is a city built on it :)

Sorry for the delay in getting to all my emails and replys to posts, but I'll get to 'em. Really ;)


(By the way, KALIROB2k2, I managed to fail to reply to your message from over a MONTH ago. Doh! Sorry about that, I'll get to it, so I haven't forgotten about ya :) )


A few things and a pre-patch download, cause I couldn't take it anymore, but you'll see about that.


First of all, known bugs. I know of the following bugs and either can't fix 'em at this time or it would take too much time to fix the comparitively minor bug.

1) Wrong civilopedia icons. Yup, I know about it, and mention it in an earlier post somewhere. Don't that suck?

A solution to it MAY come with the next patch, but it's just a guess, so I may never have to actually fix it the hard way, but if not it'l be fixed someday.

2) Rioting Crash Bug. This is the only crash bug I've managed to replicate, and have had it happen to me recently.

If you have a significant amount of citys that riot, while going through all the popups the game will crash. This usually happens when switching governments or with republic/democracy when a ton of demonstrations come from a war.

Luckily, there is a fix. For democracy/republic you may just have to switch governments and use this next fix though.

What you do is go into each city that has too many unhappy people (thus causing rioting) and just make some people entertainers. It's one of the annoyances of the governers that they manage happyness 1 turn too late...another reason they suck.

So just turn off the governor for you to add some entertainers. Then, as soon as the problem is near passing (or the same turn if your Religious, since anarchy only lasts a turn if your Religious...I don't pretend to understand that either, but I can't control it) you can just switch the governor back on for managing citizens.

In the next version Anarchy will have a 4 military police limit, so that may help things out at least early on, but it might not cure all ills. So good to keep this in mind, as it's the work-around I use to continue playing.




But now the point of this post. Here's what I've changed that will go into the next version so far (hadn't made any changes until today), with strong emphasis on the last big update on pollution:


02/13/02:

-Ironclad: Now has 18 attack instead of 17, and upgrades to Steel Warship instead of Destroyer. The latter was a relic of an earlier iteration of changes I made where Steel Warship wasn't totally better than an Ironclad, but as it's now superior in pretty much every way this makes much more sense.

-Naval units from Ship of the Line/Galleon on: The Ship of the Line and Galleon now has +1 movement, and all more advanced naval units also get +1 movement. The later units (from Steel Warship or Destroyer as a start) may need a movement boost, but I'm not decided upon the idea and currently see no need for it. Railroads may have unlimited movement, and the time-turn paradigm may be totally invalid, but illogical things are never reasonably sufficient grounds for establishing the logic of a change. Now if bureaucrats and theologians could just figure out the wisdom underlying "If your friend jumps off a bridge, would you do it too?", we'd all be So much better off.

The reason for picking Ship of the Line as the start is due to the relative historical mark of when naval technology really began to improve, including many navigational factors which are completely abstracted out of Civ3 (such as knowledge of currents and prevailing winds on the whole, as well as things such as a water-tight bulkhead, the improved use of rivets, improved sail usage, etc). That and Ironclad was just too slow for my tastes, and I didn't want it the same speed as Ship of the Line, AND it marks the inception of the Railroad (with their rediculous unlimited movement) - and I figure that should count for something on the high seas.

Besides, it works from a gameplay perspective.

-Pollution-producing Buildings: That's it, I've HAD IT! Maybe I've been reading too much of numberwatch.co.uk, junkscience.com, or co2science.org, or maybe I've just become crotchety and over-sensitive over the murder of Reason, Logic, and all that is right with Science, but I can't stand it anymore. No more will I allow this rediculous crap to pass on "game balance" grounds. No no, good sirs, I will not go quietly into the good night and sit idly by while this affront to good sense is seeped into our poor, poor, unsuspecting, innocent youth.

Legalized mass-murder I can let slip by on account of my testosterone and my skepticism as it regards the actual effect on reality. Rewritting of history I let slip by due to a mix of sloth and assuming, hopefully correctly, that none are too aggregious or are already so prevelant that it just Doesn't Matter. Hell, I'll even put Hitler and Stalin (murders the both) as Leaders on the grounds of historical accuracy and that it's an affront to reality not to include them.

But Global Warming? Are you out of your f*****g mind? (Censored for respect of opinions of so-called profanity, because it's not Subjective and doesn't hurt me to avoid pointless offense.)

I've hadz allz I can standz, and I can't standz no more. Enough!

Henceforth there shall be no Global Warming, so far as I can help it!

But with the great self-restraint of Gameplay Over Accuracy, I have seen fit to decrease pollution (largely by popular demand) rather than illiminate it completely (in reality pollution obviously exists, but doesn't do what the game has it do), so that no building produces more than 1 (25%?) pollution, and all pollution reducers decrease it 1 more than they did before (if that actually has any freakin' effect whatsoever).

Thus I now have modified the script.txt file, included in the next version of the LWC Mod, to change the 2 of the 3 main mentions of Global Warming to "Excessive pollution". The third instance...well, I made a bit of a funny and a nice hard jab on the topic. You can either search the file yourself or pollute so much that the water level rises (if that's possible at all). Maybe it's just me, but I think it's down-right hilarious.

Yeah, it's probably just me. But by-god, it's true!

Oh yeah, and I changed the civilopedia entry on pollution to reflect the changes, which are almost entirely cosmetic.

I'll have to change the individual building entrys later.

-Offshore Platform: Produces 2 unhappyness instead of 0. I'd make Airport produce at least 1 happyness, but I figured it was at least create 1 happyness, so they'd just cancel each other out.

-City Dump: Now produces 1 unhappyness instead of 1. Less trahs strewn in the city has to make SOMEONE happy.

-ISSUE: Do City Dump or Sewer System ACTUALLY alter pollution levels whatsoever? If not I'll just delete them, but I'm begining to wonder if they have any effect at all...

-Anarchy: Now has a 4 military police limit. Helps alleviate the crash bug with mass rioting, and just makes sense to me. After all, there is no form of law or constitution, so why wouldn't the military be capable of keeping people from voicing discontent? Call it Marshal Law.



That should say it all.

In short, all Pollution is now reduced, and I hath ExcerCISED the DEEEMons! ...of Global Warming.

It's handled to reflect my occassionally couth and level-headed nature, as well as giving a good thorough jab to such crap without being fanatical. Then again, I've never heard of a fanatic that truly appreciated the level of their own fanatacism, so I leave this judgement to the reader.

If you have a problem with it I suggest a good thorough critical-evaluation of numberwatch.co.uk, junkscience.com, and (most scientifically without being at all overly-complicated) co2science.org. While you're at it, buy "Sorry, Wrong Number!" by John Brignell, linked on the aforementioned Number Watch (written by the sites author).


If you still cannot cleary see the aggresious abuse of that grand, vestal, and mighty entity that is Reason, and truly of Real Science as a whole, then Get Thee To A Nunnery!; for thou surely are in need of a good habit.

(acyuck, ahyuck)


I'll probably make a simple mod of just this for those who wish to have it, but for now it'll just be a feature of the LWC Mod.

Prepatch I'm releasing this, which is purely non-gameplay altering, which should simply by unzipped into you're game's /Text directory. Script.txt is the main file which gives the changing of Global Warming to something that actually makes sense, but the change to the civilopedia does that too.

Pediaicons.txt was included because it fixes an oversight that caused the Minuteman's civilopedia entry to not be correctly used.


All will be available in the next version, of course, so this is just a quick aesthetic fix because I just couldn't stand it anymore.


One small step for reality.

Originally posted by Lovro
Ok, I can probably answer some of these.

This was introduced by Plutarck so you could, for example, upgrade a Spearman to a Musketeer if you are French (which you couldn't do in the regular Civ3 :confused: ).

Your obsolete unit will always upgrade to the most advanced unit in the upgrade chain that you are able to build. If you aren't the civ that can build the specific unit in question, the game will simply skip the specific unit in the upgrade chain.

A Ship of the Line upgrades to the Steel Warship, which then upgrades to the Destroyer. An Ironclad upgrades to the Destroyer immediately.

Press Ctrl-Shift-M to check that the coal resource hasn't appeared directly on the city in question. You cannot see a resource if there is a city built on it :)


So, if I am not the French the Spearman would upgrade to a musketman?? But if I am the French it would upgrade to a musketeer?? In otherwords, if the upgrade of a unit is to a civ-specific unit but I am not that civ a default unit of similar (but weaker) strengths becomes the unit you upgrade to even though you can't find it in the Editor's upgrade box?? :confused:



I won't complain about a SOL upgrading directly to a steel warship, but if I have an ironclad and the other civ is hitting me with steel warships I don't think I'd be able to immediately upgrade to a destroyer even though I might want to upgrade to a steel warship in time of war. It puts a fleet of ironclads at a big disadvantage for awhile. Remember, you need mass production and oil to build a destroyer but not a steel warship. I'd rather upgrade an ironclad to a steel warship because I might need to do so quickly. I think Plutarck is making this change?


I still would be loathe to give ships those kind of high bombardment rates. They make improvements and even fortresses disappear too easily. Wooden ships had only cannon that could never accomplish such destruction. Ironclads also had too high a defensive value.


Coal. I will try that. Sounds strange they found coal inside the city. Under the colosseum, perhaps?! It just seemed the game was, at some point in time, not allowing a civ to be without coal - the absence of which would likely have caused me to resign the game being unable to build metal warships or railroads.

I've read Firaxis has deigned to come out with a new Patch: 1.17,

The LWC mod (#5) is in my Scenarios folder. The Fascist mod is in the Civ III folder. the 1.16 Patch was installed.

I am rather pleased with the LWC mod, esp. as I have tweaked it a bit.

If I install this new 1.17 Patch will it effect game play and values with the LWC mod?

I agree with your question about the upcoming patch. I wish I asked it my self. I do believe that the up coming patch will be incompatible with the LWC SENERIO!

There seems to be some misconception about "ironclads".

We should not even refer to the first of them (in History) - the French vessels of the Crimean War. Nor should we refer to the shallow draft coastal vessels typified by the Monitor at Hampton Roads in 1862.

The HMS Warrior was the first true, ocean-going metal warship, and you bet it travelled as fast or faster than any Ship of the Line even though primarily sail powered. It did have a steam engine and in fact was likely faster than SOL's dependent on winds and larger crews.

So the Warrior was a typical "ironclad" - not the Monitor.

"Steel warships" would be pre-Dreadnought (1904) warships, those of the 1890's. Battleships started coming in before WW I, and destroyers a little before that to counter the torpedo boat threat against the early battleships.

CONCLUSIONS:
Ironclads should be a bit faster than Ships of the Line.

We can also improve naval play by adding torpedo boat flottilla units - very cheap and capable of sinking steel warships but only in coastal or sea tiles. They could be countered with destoyers.

Also, mines were of major importance in the Rusoo-Japanese War and WW I. Harbors could be mined to protect them from enemy blockades or bombardment; they would have no effect on friendly ships. Hence, another naval unit - coastal mine sweepers.

Originally posted by Supercilious
So, if I am not the French the Spearman would upgrade to a musketman?? But if I am the French it would upgrade to a musketeer?? In otherwords, if the upgrade of a unit is to a civ-specific unit but I am not that civ a default unit of similar (but weaker) strengths becomes the unit you upgrade to even though you can't find it in the Editor's upgrade box?? :confused:Hmm, I don't understand the you can't find it in the Editor part.

It is simply this (in LWC): suppose the musketman is the strongest defense unit you can build. If you try to upgrade a spearman or pikeman as non-french, it will upgrade to a Musketman. If you are French, you will get a Musketeer instead.

However, without the LWC Mod, as French, you will not be able to upgrade your pikemen until you discover riflemen. You should be able to upgrade them to musketeers, but you aren't. And since the French can't build regular musketmen, you cannot upgrade to them. :crazyeyes

Am I making any sense? :) If I said something wrong, feel free to correct me.

Originally posted by Supercilious
There seems to be some misconception about "ironclads".

We should not even refer to the first of them (in History) - the French vessels of the Crimean War. Nor should we refer to the shallow draft coastal vessels typified by the Monitor at Hampton Roads in 1862.

The HMS Warrior was the first true, ocean-going metal warship, and you bet it travelled as fast or faster than any Ship of the Line even though primarily sail powered. It did have a steam engine and in fact was likely faster than SOL's dependent on winds and larger crews.

So the Warrior was a typical "ironclad" - not the Monitor.

"Steel warships" would be pre-Dreadnought (1904) warships, those of the 1890's. Battleships started coming in before WW I, and destroyers a little before that to counter the torpedo boat threat against the early battleships.

CONCLUSIONS:
Ironclads should be a bit faster than Ships of the Line.

We can also improve naval play by adding torpedo boat flottilla units - very cheap and capable of sinking steel warships but only in coastal or sea tiles. They could be countered with destoyers.

Also, mines were of major importance in the Rusoo-Japanese War and WW I. Harbors could be mined to protect them from enemy blockades or bombardment; they would have no effect on friendly ships. Hence, another naval unit - coastal mine sweepers.


The unit graphic seems to be of a Monitor style ship not shure
what conclusion to draw from that but i think i should be considered.
perhaps if your info is right the current ironclad graphic should be restricted to shore and we should try to find someone to make a model for the kind you are talking about.

The sea unit ideas you have here are GREAT a cheap unit that sinks in ocean
but is a decent attacker would be interesting and prob historicaly acurate.
kinda like the little PT boats from WW2, the were often made of wood with very light metal armor not very durable in other words but they were well armed for a ship of their size and very agile. (my info comes from a movie about then: JFK during his time on one in WW2 called "PT109" .made in the late 50's or early 60's check it out its good)

Originally posted by Lovro
. . .It is simply this (in LWC): suppose the musketman is the strongest defense unit you can build. If you try to upgrade a spearman or pikeman as non-french, it will upgrade to a Musketman. If you are French, you will get a Musketeer instead.

However, without the LWC Mod, as French, you will not be able to upgrade your pikemen until you discover riflemen. You should be able to upgrade them to musketeers, but you aren't. And since the French can't build regular musketmen, you cannot upgrade to them. :crazyeyes

Am I making any sense? :) If I said something wrong, feel free to correct me.

So. . . with such as "musketeer" in the Editor upgrade box for pikemen, all civs will upgrade to MUSKETMAN, but the French will get the civ-specific equivalent (musketeer).

I ask all that as I do not want to PREVENT most civs from upgrading if a civ-specific unit is in the upgrade box. No problemo??

Originally posted by Joben



The unit graphic seems to be of a Monitor style ship not shure
what conclusion to draw from that but i think i should be considered.
perhaps if your info is right the current ironclad graphic should be restricted to shore and we should try to find someone to make a model for the kind you are talking about.

The sea unit ideas you have here are GREAT a cheap unit that sinks in ocean
but is a decent attacker would be interesting and prob historicaly acurate.
kinda like the little PT boats from WW2, the were often made of wood with very light metal armor not very durable in other words but they were well armed for a ship of their size and very agile. (my info comes from a movie about then: JFK during his time on one in WW2 called "PT109" .made in the late 50's or early 60's check it out its good)


My info is correct.

Let me simplify. . .