So here's the thread for the tournament's "death" group.

Several football teams will compete in it, in particular the Czech Republic, Latvia and Germany. And then there is also an conglomeration of people who are better at doing other things, like:
http://home.t-online.de/home/psychiatrie/rijkaard_90voeller.jpg
They are also said to be good at missing penalties and whining about objectively correct referee decisions.

The first matches are:

Czech Repulic vs. Latvia
Germany vs. The Glorious Kingdom of Cheese, Weed and Flooding

From the English football magazine four-four-two:

How racist. :shakehead

And then quoting the English when it comes to football. :lol:

Except for Gary Lineker, maybe.

How racist. :shakehead
And you didn't even read the article, which also shows a picture of a windmill, a Panzer, a soldier, a Dutch young lady without a bike, and a German soldier with a bike....

And of course Edgar Davids handing over a bouquet of flowers to the devil himself.

And then quoting the English when it comes to football. :lol:
:o

Except for Gary Lineker, maybe.

His real father is probably from the continent.....

Ah yes, Frank Rijkaard, macht den Haar völler, or something like that.

das Haar...

And you didn't even read the article, which also shows a picture of a windmill, a Panzer, a soldier, a Dutch young lady without a bike, and a German soldier with a bike....

:lol:

Yeah, they love us. Which is probably because they are as unsuccessful as Holland but that even without actually playing good football.

Hm, they've won more world wars than the Netherlands ;)

:lol:

unsuccessful as Holland

The last five times we met officially:
2 victories for us, 1 for you, 2 draws.

Hm, they've won more world wars than the Netherlands
And more World Cups.

But they owe both to the Russians.

The last five times we met officially:
2 victories for us, 1 for you, 2 draws.
How many tournaments did you win again?

I can only think of one and you owe that to the Russians and their lackluster performance too. :D

Well, per capita we've won more than anyone else.

Well, per capita we've won more than anyone else.
Let's see: ~15 million / 1 win = 15
~80 million / 6 wins = 13.33...

And that even without considering that a World Cup win is worth much more than a EURO win and that the West alone won 5 of those trophies... :p

Another point: we are both good in loosing finals.....

Another point: we are both good in loosing finals.....
Quite correct, but only one of us is good at winning them. ;)

Isn't it so that since 1974 there's been either Germany or Holland in at least the semi-finals of every World Cup? And also the EURO with the exception of 1984.

I guess that the Netherlands will beat Germany, but both teams qualify.

But then it will be the same procedure: the Netherlands will lose in 1/4 or 1/2, no matter which opponent, they will beat themselves, while we, playing poor and boring, advance to the finals

I guess that the Netherlands will beat Germany, but both teams qualify.

But then it will be the same procedure: the Netherlands will lose in 1/4 or 1/2, no matter which opponent, they will beat themselves, while we, playing poor and boring, advance to the finals
:goodjob: on the latter, but I don't think Germany will qualify if the Dutch win on Tuesday (which they should be able to...).

So now for some predictions:

In normal form Holland should win. Let's say 2-1.

Now if Nowotny and Wörns are the defence make that 3-1.

If Hamann plays make it 5-1.

If Seedorf plays reduce it to 3-2.

In any way it doesn't look too good...

If Hamann plays make it 5-1.

:confused: I really don't know much about his actual form, but IMO he is a decent player, very mannschaftsdienlich and I saw him in a few quite good games. but maybe he is out of form atm, plz enlighten me

:confused: I really don't know much about his actual form, but IMO he is a decent player, very mannschaftsdienlich and I saw him in a few quite good games. but maybe he is out of form atm, plz enlighten me
If by mannschaftsdienlich you mean playing five meter security passes in front of your own defence and standing around with an occasional outburst just to foul someone I agree.

If not I don't get it. Have you seen the Hungary match (as just one of many)?

But MrPresident likes him. Which on second thought probably proves my point.

If by mannschaftsdienlich you mean playing five meter security passes in front of your own defence and standing around with an occasional outburst just to foul someone I agree.

If not I don't get it. Have you seen the Hungary match (as just one of many)?

But MrPresident likes him. Which on second thought probably proves my point.

:lol:

I haven't seen the Hungary match, but I guess all were bad. I agree, he doesn't play too spectacular, but well, he plays defensive midfield. OTOH I thought his passing quite good, at least he usually plays the ball in a direction where someone from his team stands and you can't say that about many members of the actual team.

Quite correct, but only one of us is good at winning them. ;)

Isn't it so that since 1974 there's been either Germany or Holland in at least the semi-finals of every World Cup? And also the EURO with the exception of 1984.

Not in 1994.

It's not always good to play towards a team member. Gerrard could affirm this ;)

I guess that the Netherlands will beat Germany, but both teams qualify.

But then it will be the same procedure: the Netherlands will lose in 1/4 or 1/2, no matter which opponent, they will beat themselves, while we, playing poor and boring, advance to the finals

This indeed is not that unlikely. We really need to find the perfect balance yet. A win over Germany might have a bad side effect: over estimation, but it really would get as in good shape.

It is such a big if for Oranje, but if we find the right balance, we really do have a great time, with multiple players on several positions.

It's not always good to play towards a team member. Gerrard could affirm this ;)

Henry is not in Gerrard's team ;) .

Overestimation, like after the game v.s. Yugoslavia in 2000...

Germany will most likely play a 4-5-1 system today, with Baumann as added defensive midfielder at the cost of a striker. Rudi seems to have missed the last three minutes of the England match...

4-5-1.....

What we played in 1988, though that seems to be collectively banned from the Dutch national memory.

Might have to do with the permanent absence of van Basten...

Oh sure,

But today we have Van Nistelrooij. And VdVaart & Kluivert to fill the space behind him (not beside). Instead we will probably use some 2nd class wing attackers.....

Well, first there will be Czech Republic vs. Latvia now. Go Latvia!

Indeed. Go Latvia! :D

As long as they refrain from singing...GO LATVIA!!!

I would like to see Latvia do well but since I would like to see the Czech Republic and Holland get out of the group...

Go Czech republic!!!!!

Latvia have just scored :D:D:D

:wow: :wow: :wow:

C. Rep. 0 - 1 Latvia at halftime...

YES!!! Sneaky bastards those Latvians!

I hope Latvia can hold out

Czech Republic 0-1 Latvia at halftime. :goodjob:

The Czech defence sucks as one could hope for. :D

Lots of textbook play from Latvia, and lots of good crosses. They may not have as much skill on the ball, but they have been very disciplined, very defensive, and very calculating.

I notice Latvia don't take set pieces seriously; they clearly expect to score goals the old fasioned way :)

They've played their game well... :) Not the best goal ever but they exploited the space that they were given and took the chance. I would still like to see the Czechs come back as otherwise Germany might end up go through regardless of the result in the next game...

1-1 Baros just scored i guess Latvia couldnt hold on :(

Too bad the Latvians couldn't hold out, but to be fair, Czechia deserved the win. Some beautiful actions and strikes by Poborsky especially.

The Czechs surely are the better team (hardly surprising) but they played very disappointing today, just like all other favourites so far.

Latvia may have deserved a point for their fighting but objectively the Czechs deserved the win.

That Latvian goal cost me four points...

That Latvian goal cost me four points...

Me too :lol:

I felt that the Czechs deserved the win as Latvia rarely had any chances to score and the Czechs kept on going even when it looked like they might actually lose and got the necessary goals. Not sure how objective it is to judge the Czech's performance when they were playing against Latvia who were out to defend.

The referee had a really good game.

1-0!!!

Germany played brilliant, the Dutch are so far a total disappointment. Even Hamann was good...

Well thats a turnup for the books. The Dutch started well but seemed to lose their way in the first half. They conceded a number of stupid freekicks and the Germans always looked dangerous from set pieces. Sure enough, they give away another stupid free kick and the Germans score. 1-0 at halftime.

The Dutch looked chaotic and disorganised - just like they were in the Irish game.

Hammann and Ballack outstanding in midfield.

I want the best team to win tonight. :jesus:

However, The Dutch should watch out aerial balls from Germany. Obviously the Germans are always catching the ball from the head when normally defenders should.

I don't understand that irrational hate from the Dutch against the Germans... well, we used to hate Germans to after Spain 1982 World Cup... when Schumacher has almost killed Battiston in Seville during the semi-final the 8th of July. And no fault had been whistled then !!! Even if Battiston had been sent to the hospital, the jaws broken !!!

We thought it would have been our only chance to win the World Cup. Now we've won it so Germany are our buddies again. :)

.... when Schumacher has almost killed Battiston in Seville during the semi-final the 8th of July....

i remember that, that was, to this day, the worst professional foul i have ever seen

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport3/worldcup2002/hi/history/newsid_1617000/1617552.stm

1 - 1 !

Van Nistlerooy ! Good goal.

Ah well, at least we didn't lose.

Here's hoping the Germans get kicked out by Latvia or something.....

What a crap. If you had told me 1-1 before the game I would have taken it but this way it really sucks. But a great game by the team, nothing to see from the orange "machine". :goodjob:

What a crap. If you had told me 1-1 before the game I would have taken it but this way it really sucks. But a great game by the team, nothing to see from the orange "machine". :goodjob:

'Great game' - yeah - if you consider shutting out the opposition without reallly attempting to create something for yourself great, I'm sure it lived up to expectations.

I'm beginning to think we're being a bit too harsh on teams like France, the Netherlands and Denmark in their games - sure, they all had a hard time gettinng into the game and showing off the football we're expecting from them, but if you're up against a completely defensive-minded team with as much as an ounce of quality you're bound to start looking feckless and ineffectual no matter how hard you try.

well, we used to hate Germans to after Spain 1982 World Cup... when Schumacher has almost killed Battiston in Seville during the semi-final the 8th of July. And no fault had been whistled then !!! Even if Battiston had been sent to the hospital, the jaws broken !!!
I still remember France-Soir the next day calling Schumacher, nazi parachutiste (paratrooper).Although i think it was a player of Kologne, Didier Six that lost the penalty that cost the game to France. A collaborateur, obviously.... :mischief:

I'm beginning to think we're being a bit too harsh on teams like France, the Netherlands and Denmark in their games - sure, they all had a hard time gettinng into the game and showing off the football we're expecting from them

You can add the Czech republic to that list as well...

Was a very entertaining game especially since I happened to be sitting with a few Germans, and someone who is half dutch so it was great when Nistelrooy scored. :)

'Great game' - yeah - if you consider shutting out the opposition without reallly attempting to create something for yourself great, I'm sure it lived up to expectations.

I'm beginning to think we're being a bit too harsh on teams like France, the Netherlands and Denmark in their games - sure, they all had a hard time gettinng into the game and showing off the football we're expecting from them, but if you're up against a completely defensive-minded team with as much as an ounce of quality you're bound to start looking feckless and ineffectual no matter how hard you try.
What are you talking about? Germany was the more active team except for the last ten minutes. Holland didn't archieve anything, neither in the attack nor when it came to defending against set pieces.
But funny that it now becomes bad but was all great when England did it in a much more extreme way. :D

But funny that it now becomes bad but was all great when England did it in a much more extreme way. :D

Now you have the slightest, slightest inkling of how it feels :p

That was a really bad game by both teams, only in the last quarter there seemed to be something resembling football going on. I never understood why we made Advocaat our team coach again, he's never been a great trainer. But well, anything better than van Gaal I guess... I hope this game was enough of a signal to Advocaat (and van Hanegem) to implement some drastic changes in the line-up and tactic.

I still remember France-Soir the next day calling Schumacher, nazi parachutiste (paratrooper).Although i think it was a player of Kologne, Didier Six that lost the penalty that cost the game to France. A collaborateur, obviously.... :mischief:What's your interest in mentionning France Soir all the time ? No one reads that newspaper ! The paper almost fell in bankrupcy and is currently selling 10,000 papers a day or so.

On the other side :
SIX MILLION ENGLISH PEOPLE... 6,000,000... ARE READING THE SUN !!!

And by the way, the Sun is a lot more trash than France Soir. Nothing to be compared.

Holland were poor and lacked penetration or imagination. In the end they settled for route 1 football. Put two big strikers up there and hoofed it into the box. They played like players who'd never seen each other before. Lucky to draw.

The Germans had enough chances to have won that game. They were better organised and until the last ten minutes werent in much danger and looked dangerous themselves on the break.

Neither side looked to be in the same class as France, Czechs, England or Sweden.

What are you talking about? Germany was the more active team except for the last ten minutes. Holland didn't achieve anything, neither in the attack nor when it came to defending against set pieces.
But funny that it now becomes bad but was all great when England did it in a much more extreme way. :D

Not at all - I was actively cheering for France all the time. But that Holland didn't achieve anything was exactly my point - we're making it out like that was all Holland's fault when in fact it was the Germans smothering all offensive moves & they only became more active on offense when Schweinsteiger came on. Of course that's a measure of their quality too but I really think we're being too hard opn the teams we normally expect to play an attacking style.

What are you talking about? Germany was the more active team except for the last ten minutes. Holland didn't archieve anything, neither in the attack nor when it came to defending against set pieces.
But funny that it now becomes bad but was all great when England did it in a much more extreme way. :D

He isn't complaining about teams playing defensively, instead about complaining about attacking teams that are playing against defensive teams and aren't as creative as normal... Or at least I was.

Holland were poor and lacked penetration or imagination. In the end they settled for route 1 football. Put two big strikers up there and hoofed it into the box. They played like players who'd never seen each other before. Lucky to draw.

The Germans had enough chances to have won that game. They were better organised and until the last ten minutes werent in much danger and looked dangerous themselves on the break.

Well, van Nistelrooy and a bit of luck made the difference. The man had practically no chance and still scored, and that hardly for the first time...
Neither side looked to be in the same class as France, Czechs, England or Denmark
England... :D

Germany played the same tactic much more effective today, including attacks on their own. ;)

He isn't complaining about teams playing defensively, instead about complaining about attacking teams that are playing against defensive teams and aren't as creative as normal... Or at least I was.
My point was that Germany was more attacking today. Holland didn't exist in the midfield. Have you seen van der Vaart, for example? Not to mention Davids. It became a little better when they brought in Overmars, who was certainly their best player today.

Well the French are certainly a much better side than Holland and the game against England could have gone either way. Germany dont look to have improved much since England beat them 5-1. Holland were so disorganised that Ireland beat them and they havent improved much since then either. I dont rate either team as likely to make the semis.

. Even Hamann was good...

I am glad you admit it ;) yes, surprisingly good game.

the one thing what angered me was Kuranyis Hand in the 10th minute. what was he thinking?

the one thing what angered me was Kuranyis Hand in the 10th minute. what was he thinking?
Nothing probably. As usual. ;)

. I dont rate either team as likely to make the semis.

You're probably right, however Holland have the tradition of not starting to play properly until the quarters or the semis anyway. As long as we qualify I'm not too worried yet.

Apparently he thought he was Maradona :confused:

My point was that Germany was more attacking today. Holland didn't exist in the midfield. Have you seen van der Vaart, for example? Not to mention Davids. It became a little better when they brought in Overmars, who was certainly their best player today.

It was disappointing that Vaart didn't really seem to have much of a role but then again Nistelrooy hadn't done anything since the chance in the first 5 minutes and Holland seemed to asking too much of their midfield to support the attack, defence and control the midfield as well. They seemed to do much better with an extra striker where the midfiled could create chances rather than having to try and support Nistelrooy.

Btw why did Zenden start?

Btw why did Zenden start?
At least he shouldn't start again. On the other hand, you never know with the Dutch. :D

At least he shouldn't start again. On the other hand, you never know with the Dutch. :D

Or rather, you never know with the idiot we've somehow put in charge.

As soon as Van Hooydonk was brought in, the dutch won the battles in the German 16-metres area. As a result of that the Germans focussed more on him, allowing the backs and the wingers to finally get some room, which resulted in the winger Van der Meyde to get past the defender. Van Hooydonk should be included in the starting team.

As soon as Van Hooydonk was brought in, the dutch won the battles in the German 16-metres area. As a result of that the Germans focussed more on him, allowing the backs and the wingers to finally get some room, which resulted in the winger Van der Meyde to get past the defender. Van Hooydonk should be included in the starting team.
Good point. Van Hooijdonk and Overmars should both be. Or shouldn't, depending on the viewpoint.

Ballack was king of the midfield. I'd expected Davids to rule over him, but he didn't play his best game ever.

It is such an easy concept: As long as you do not contr0l the midfield, it is impossible to create the typical Dutch pressure game, no matter what system you use.

Yesterday's game once again showed that Holland was lacking control over the midfield, while having 4 defenders watching Kuranyi...
I hope Advocaat will bring back Cocu to the defense (Bouma can be sent to his mother), and bring in an extra man on the midfield. Furthermore Zenden shouldn't be in. Just add an extra midfielder. Overmars should be brought in during halftime for however underperforms.

A midfield with Seedorf, Davids & Sneijder, backed-up by Cocu from the defense, suits us best, I think. Ruud as striker, Andy as rightwinger and VdV in a fee role should do the trick.

Over all the Dutch performance was poor yesterday, but I absolutely do see progress, and I do see A LOT of possible progress.

Yeah. Such as: they didn't loose. And since they only start performing well when it absolutely matters... this isn't a bad start. But the game v.s. the czechs matters even more now. Luckily, the lets showed yesterday that you don't need a midfield to *nearly* beat the czechs.

The best thing is, that I happen to be in Aveiro next saturday. By pure coincedence, that is where the Holland-Czezeczhzechia game will be.

Good point. Van Hooijdonk and Overmars should both be. Or shouldn't, depending on the viewpoint.

==

Good point Big Pierre is a class player I found it slightly ironic that an Ex- Celtic player helped saved the blush's of the wee ex hun manager.

I enjoyed the game and felt Germany were a tad unlucky not to get all three points, Ballack had a storming game and was disappointed in the Dutch.
Time for them to get a new manager once the Czechs knock them out !,

I'm afraid the Dutch confirmed the cliche - the players weren't talking to each other, literally, which could be a problem. Compare Kahn and vdSar organising their defences at set pieces, for instance...
I can see Portugal and Italy both pulling a strop and throwing it all away againct inferior opposition, just like in Korea, and Holland joining them.

@Stapel, you still need to change that signature. Enjoy the game, though.

Good point Big Pierre is a class player I found it slightly ironic that an Ex- Celtic player helped saved the blush's of the wee ex hun manager.

Van Hooijdonck doesn't know what loyalty is. His heart is where the money can be found. He is a class player though. A real pity Frisk didn't let him take that free kick again, after that the german wall moved to 6,5 metres at most...

Van Hooijdonck doesn't know what loyalty is. His heart is where the money can be found. He is a class player though. A real pity Frisk didn't let him take that free kick again, after that the german wall moved to 6,5 metres at most...

==


Your totally right superb player but a total mercenary, and one of the best Free kick takers around, would easily put Beckham in his place.


Hope he starts for the Dutch next game and I can cheer him on again, thou going by last nights performance you boys are
out.

I'm afraid the Dutch confirmed the cliche - the players weren't talking to each other, literally, which could be a problem. Compare Kahn and vdSar organising their defences at set pieces, for instance...
I can see Portugal and Italy both pulling a strop and throwing it all away againct inferior opposition, just like in Korea, and Holland joining them.

@Stapel, you still need to change that signature. Enjoy the game, though.


==

Fair point DJ thou Italy were robbed in the world cup!

Van Hooijdonck will never be listed as a starting player I guess. Which is a real pity.

I find it hard to ever like him after the way he behaved at Nottingham Forest.

@Hitro:
Do you think Völler is gonna play two strikers, Kuranyi and possibly Bobic, agaist Latvia to try to win by a bigger margin than the Czechs? Or is Germany's novel 4-1-4-1 to rule from now on?

At the press conference today he said that he will add a second striker. Probably Bobic.

Who leaves? Hamann?

I guess Baumann.

Hmm... For this game perhaps it is an acceptable choice, but I think Baumann is much better than Hamann and can cover his position if necessary.

==

Fair point DJ thou Italy were robbed in the world cup!Yeah, but it was the most enjoyable mugging I've ever watched

Hamann is that kind of player who never seems to do the spectacular work but is always there to link play together or break up the opposition's attack. Most sides find it essential to have that kind of player somewhere in midfield.

I was impressed with Hamann and Germany's ability to hold onto the ball. They didn't give away cheap possession for the first 70 minutes, but the full 90 looked beyond this aging German team

I find it hard to ever like him after the way he behaved at Nottingham Forest.

what happened?

what happened?

I don't know, but I can guess:

Not being loyal???

He was signed by Forest who paid him a lot of money. After about 10 games into the season, he decided that the team werent doing well and werent good enough. He then refused to play for them at all although he inisted on being paid each month. He refused to honour his contract and rubbished his teammates. Not done.

He was signed by Forest who paid him a lot of money. After about 10 games into the season, he decided that the team werent doing well and werent good enough. He then refused to play for them at all although he inisted on being paid each month. He refused to honour his contract and rubbished his teammates. Not done.

He refused to play? :confused: can't a club fire a player then

Thats what he wanted them to do... Fire him so that he could move to another club...

I find it hard to ever like him after the way he behaved at Nottingham Forest.
:goodjob: I completely agree with this 100%.

Yeah, but it was the most enjoyable mugging I've ever watched

Did you enjoy Spain being mugged...?

It seems Holland trained today with quite some changes in the base squad: Van der Sar, Reiziger, Stam, F.de Boer, v.Bronckhorst, Bosvelt, Cocu, Davids, v.d.Vaart, Kluivert, v.Nistelrooij.
So Reiziger instead of Heitinga, Frank de Boer for Bouma, Bosvelt and Kluivert instead of v.d. Meijde and Zenden. Back to the incredibly succesful *cough* 4-4-2. Any thoughts about that?

Did you enjoy Spain being mugged...?

I didn't but then I have interests in seeing Portugal and Spain both get past the group stage...

Dr. Jimbo and I are talking about WC 2002 ;)

de Boer, Reiziger, Bosvelt? Hmm...
I think that Holland played better with two strikers then with just one in the first game. Also van der Meyde, apart from the cross to the goal didn't impress me much either.
This seems a line-up to play a little more on contention agains the Czechs. Also the czechs have a lot of power in the midfield, and this way Advocaat seems to want a more covered midfield to start.

Dr. Jimbo and I are talking about WC 2002 ;)

Ah okay, well it still wasn't that enjoyable then, although other people seemed to be happy about it...

who? PSV's Coach? :mischief:

Did you enjoy Spain being mugged...?
Well, to push the analogy, seeing as how the Irish dropped their wallet and Spain ran off with it, yes. :mad:

It seems Holland trained today with quite some changes in the base squad: Van der Sar, Reiziger, Stam, F.de Boer, v.Bronckhorst, Bosvelt, Cocu, Davids, v.d.Vaart, Kluivert, v.Nistelrooij.
So Reiziger instead of Heitinga, Frank de Boer for Bouma, Bosvelt and Kluivert instead of v.d. Meijde and Zenden. Back to the incredibly succesful *cough* 4-4-2. Any thoughts about that?

Actually, it was most likely an "first team attackers v.s. first team defenders" match. Bouma was kind of injured.

Well, to push the analogy, seeing as how the Irish dropped their wallet and Spain ran off with it, yes. :mad:

Were you happy when Italy went out as well?

Fair point DJ thou Italy were robbed in the world cup!

Yeah, but it was the most enjoyable mugging I've ever watched

This answer your question Dell? ;)

Were you happy when Italy went out as well?And Portugal. I was quite the South Korea fan during the 2002 World Cup. Sure they had help, but Totti and Figo failed to deliver and were sent off for petulance. You must admit they were great games to watch!

Portugal utterly sucked at the WC but I felt Italy and Spain should have knocked out South Korea...

Well, with Ireland knocked out I was wallowing in schadenfreude and cheering the plucky underdogs.

Why are Spain, Italy, Portugal, South Korea, Ireland and the WC02 discussed in a Euro2004 group D thread? :confused:

Because we went off topic... Also we are waiting for the next games in group D since its been a few days since any group D teams actually played.

Oh, that's why :) . Let's forget about wc02, I guess hardly anyone has good memories of it. They either didn't make it (Holland), sucked big time (France, Portugal), got robbed (Italy, Spain) or had a too funny goalkeeper (England, Germany).

I don't know what the hell Advocaat thinks by letting Bosvelt play... that's just crazy. Reiziger.. depends on the system he wants to play. If he wants backs to run forward, he better put in Reiziger instead of Heitinga. For Frank de Boer... all I can say is I even prefer him over Bouma! Please, Bouma is wetting his shorts before every match and crying in a corner of the dressing room.. He's faster than De Boer, true, but De Boer has a magnificent pass and is at least not afraid. In the next match Stam can take care of Koller, and the rest doesn't need to play man to man, so then you can put De Boer in...

Oh, that's why :) . Let's forget about wc02, I guess hardly anyone has good memories of it. They either didn't make it (Holland), sucked big time (France, Portugal), got robbed (Italy, Spain) or had a too funny goalkeeper (England, Germany).
Or threw it away (Ireland) :mad:

Or threw it away (Ireland) :mad:
You mean in a match vs Spain? That's one of the few good memories I have... :p
I don't know what the hell Advocaat thinks by letting Bosvelt play... that's just crazy. Reiziger.. depends on the system he wants to play. If he wants backs to run forward, he better put in Reiziger instead of Heitinga. For Frank de Boer... all I can say is I even prefer him over Bouma! Please, Bouma is wetting his shorts before every match and crying in a corner of the dressing room.. He's faster than De Boer, true, but De Boer has a magnificent pass and is at least not afraid. In the next match Stam can take care of Koller, and the rest doesn't need to play man to man, so then you can put De Boer in...
I agree on de Boer replacing Bouma. I think Holland has to reinforce its midfield, especially against the Czechs. That's were they lost it against Germany as well. 4-3-3 won't work with terribly off-form wingers like Zenden and vd Meijde, so I'd go 4-4-2 again and hope for the best. In that light choosing Bosvelt is not that weird.

Maybe we should start a WC2002 sour grapes reminiscence thread.
You mean in a match vs Spain? That's one of the few good memories I have... :p
Bastards. We only lost because of the 'no need to practise penalties' philosophy that affects Ireland and England managers. *
Funny to see that Mick McCarthy's Sunderland lost in the playoffs on a penalty shootout...



*This also pertains to the 'forwards should take penalties 'cause they know how to stick it in the net from 12 yards' debate in the Group 2 thread.

Well, today (or tomorrow...) there are two games in this group.

Will Germany manage to beat the Latvians? If so, will it be convincing or a pain like for the Czechs?

Who will win in the Holland-Czech clash? The Czechs dominated in their qualification group, will it be different this time?

And will people spit at each other?

Will Germany manage to beat the Latvians? If so, will it be convincing or a pain like for the Czechs?Germany is the exact opposite than France. There's less individual talent in Germany but an excellent organization.

Just imagine if France and Germany were playing in the same team, with the German organization and the French individualities.... we would rule !!! :beer:

Oh wait ! That's what Italy and Sweden are about !

And will Robin Hood come to the rescue of Maid Marion Pahars before she is forced to marry the evil Sheriff of Nottingham?

And will Robin Hood come to the rescue of Maid Marion Pahars before she is forced to marry the evil Sheriff of Nottingham?
Christian Ziege? Ah no, that was Tottenham.

@Marla, the French team would just need another coach, they should finally take out some of the old players and replace them with the great younger ones they have. There are few German players who could enhance the French team.

I see Germany beating Latvia by moe than just 1 goal, with more or less difficulties. I think Völler should play with two strikers tomorow, and since they had a draw against the dutch, seek a win by as many goals as possible, in the possibility that they may finish with the same points as the dutch.

About the other game, I'm not sure what to expect. Advocaat may be changing his tactics, and that may bring more interest to the game. With the line-up and the system they had against Germany, I believe they're screwed, even if the Czech Rep. wasn't exactly great against Latvia.

I see Germany beating Latvia by moe than just 1 goal, with more or less difficulties. I think Völler should play with two strikers tomorow, and since they had a draw against the dutch, seek a win by as many goals as possible, in the possibility that they may finish with the same points as the dutch.
He will play with two strikers. And the rest is right as well of course, but the one thing it all depends on is the attitude they play with. If it is remotely like in the Holland match we might see another Saudi Arabia tomorrow. But if it is anything like in the matches before Latvia might be in second place after the matches...

Isn't Latvia Lithuania's neighbour? :mischief:

Isn't Latvia Lithuania's neighbour? :mischief:
And apparently the better one. :(

Bastards. We only lost because of the 'no need to practise penalties' philosophy that affects Ireland and England managers. *
Funny to see that Mick McCarthy's Sunderland lost in the playoffs on a penalty shootout...

I thought that was Holland's unique philosophy! They have the worst record (*) of all countries when it comes to penalties, but the you-cannot-practice-them philosophy will ensure they will never win a penalty shoot-out. And heck, the Dutch can always blame Seedorf :p

(*)Recent losses of the Dutch after penalty shoot-out:
EC92 lost to Denmark
EC96 lost to France
WC98 lost to Brazil
EC00 lost to Italy

Recent wins of the Dutch after penalty shoot-out:
















(long empty list)

Newest rumoured squad of the Dutch:

Van der Sar;
Heitinga, Stam, Cocu, Van Bronckhorst;
Bosvelt, Seedorf, Davids;
Van der Meyde, Van Nistelrooy, Robben

Quote from Dutch teletekst (ceefax) http://teletekst.nos.nl/gif/821-01.html

Nederland speelt overigens net als in de wedstrijd tegen Duitsland met één spits. "Anders zou ik mezelf belachelijk maken",aldus Dick Advocaat.

(Holland wil play with one forward only, just like the game against Germany. "Otherwise I would make myself look ridiculous", said Dick Advocaat)

Holland is playing 4-5-1 :eek: :eek: :eek: I didn't notice that against the Germans, Holland just played ridiculously bad. Advocaat really doesn't know what he want anymore. The only thing he wants is not to look ridiculous, if you'd ask me.

Chances are he just wants to confuse the Czechs - however, we can only hope he doesn't completely bamboozle his own squad again too.

This 'I'd make myself look like a fool if I change tactics' thing is grounds for immediate dismissal as a coach IMHO.

This 'I'd make myself look like a fool if I change tactics' thing is grounds for immediate dismissal as a coach IMHO.
Yeah, and put Willem "niet lullen, lekker gaan ballen" Van Hangem in.

This 'I'd make myself look like a fool if I change tactics' thing is grounds for immediate dismissal as a coach IMHO.

Yeah thats an idiotic statement for a coach to make, basically saying that he is unwilling to change to tactics that actually work because then he will have been wrong... What ever happened to learning from mistakes?

Just imagine if France and Germany were playing in the same team, with the German organization and the French individualities.... we would rule !!! :beer:

that is what we proposed 60 years ago, but only part of you were convinced of that ;)

(SP slaps himself for bad joke)

Once again the attitude of the German team is disgusting. They showed in the Holland game that they can do much better but once again they seem to think a supposedly weaker opponent can be beaten without to run and fight.
Hamann shows one of those many games for which I don't like him. And what does Ballack do? Anything at all? Compare that with the Holland game and you see that it's not about actual potential but only about effort.

And then the only tactic they use are high crosses, not necessarily bad but why did he play Bobic then and not Klose, who is the ideal player for that kind of game, i.e. depending on headers.

Latvia 0 -0 Germany

Latvia held out for the draw could this see the Germans going home early this year ?

If they would have played the whole 90 minutes like parts of the second half they would have scored a clear victory. And what the hell was Klose doing in the last minute.

But well, now we have to beat the Czechs. That's gonna be really easy, compared with Latvia. ;)

Germany now has a worse situation than ITALY..

That referee stank. Germany played dirty. Latvia were robbed!

Three good penalty appeals ignored :(

And Latvia was withheld a penalty. Seems Germany overestimated themselves.

The most popular strategy in this Euro is : 9-0-1. 9 defenders and 1 forward. I hate teams playing this way. :mad:

Well, if I were German, I would strongly hope Czech Republic wins against the Netherlands. Indeed, this way it would be :
Czech Rep : 6 pts (qualified)
Germany : 2 pts
Netherlands : 1 pt
Latvia : 1 pt

Germany playing against the qualified Czech would then have a lot easier game than Netherlands against Latvian 9 defenders.

What a lame game, especially from the germans. Germany, obviously the better team by far, only really thretened when they did run a bit between the 25' and 35' of the first half and during the first 20 minutes of the 2nd half, when Völler sent his fullbacks forward and Germany won the battle of the flanks. This was the best part of the game. At this point Latvia was playing with 8-2, and has thus two quick forwards against Germany's two defenders. Because of this they also made a couple of dangeous uns towards Kahn's area, and I guess Völler was a little afraid, and sent his fullbacks back again. After this, and with the failed substitutions in the attack, Germany didn't do nothing. A very disappointing performance by Germany and now they have to beat the czechs...

The most popular strategy in this Euro is : 9-0-1. 9 defenders and 1 forward. I hate teams playing this way. :mad:

Well, if I were German, I would strongly hope Czech Republic wins against the Netherlands. Indeed, this way it would be :
Czech Rep : 6 pts (qualified)
Germany : 2 pts
Netherlands : 1 pt
Latvia : 1 pt

Germany playing against the qualified Czech would then have a lot easier game than Netherlands against Latvian 9 defenders.


What?!?!?You hate that strategy? What do you expect? Latvia plating a 3-4-3 against Germany? :lol: :lol: And Latvia was playing a 4-5-1 in the last minutes IMO..

And Latvia was withheld a penalty. Seems Germany overestimated themselves.
Only a penatly? :confused:

You must have missed much of the game ;)

Yeah, only a penalty in the first half. In the 2nd half there was no penalty and the english referee should have booked Verpakovskis, particulay in the one against Wörns near the end of the game.

What?!?!?You hate that strategy? What do you expect? Latvia plating a 3-4-3 against Germany? :lol: :lol: And Latvia was playing a 4-5-1 in the last minutes IMO..Yes. I hate that strategy. The purpose in football is to win. Not to make a deuce.

And about the supposed stolen penalties, I'm sorry but Pipo Inzaghi has found today his master in diving.

Two stolen penalties...one dive I think.

For teams like Latvia, a point is an achievement... They might have even won the game if they had gotten lucky or been given the penalty... For other teams playing defensively, well it seems to work so they keep on doing it but of course then the games aren't so good.

Yeah, only a penalty in the first half. In the 2nd half there was no penalty and the english referee should have booked Verpakovskis, particulay in the one against Wörns near the end of the game.

He probably pitied him - the guy appeared completely out of breath. Still had an excellent chance after that on Pahars's cross too - that was far more dangerous than it looked. But a draw is probably a fair result.

Germany not winning should help the Dutch chances, but I'm concerned we might have trouble with the Latvian tactic too !

We don't have to win from Latvia, if we win from the Czechs. In that case it will be:

Holland: 4
Czech: 3
Germany: 2
Latvia: 1

Then, whatever the Czech and the Germans do; they can never both overtake or have equal points. So if we beat the Czech-republic; we are through !!

Schade Deutschland alles ist vorbei!

Well, Van Hanegem has spoken:

Van der Sar

Van Bronckhorst Bouma Stam Heitinga

Davids Cocu

Robben Seedorf Van der Meyde

Van Nistelrooy

Became very pissed off when asked about Sneijder too.

What?!?!?You hate that strategy? What do you expect? Latvia plating a 3-4-3 against Germany? :lol: :lol: And Latvia was playing a 4-5-1 in the last minutes IMO..
I thought it was 8 - 0 - 2 ;)

We don't have to win from Latvia, if we win from the Czechs. In that case it will be:

Holland: 4
Czech: 3
Germany: 2
Latvia: 1

Then, whatever the Czech and the Germans do; they can never both overtake or have equal points. So if we beat the Czech-republic; we are through !!

Schade Deutschland alles ist vorbei!Except that if you lose against Latvia, then Latvia will have 4 pts.
I know that because such a configuration would be exactly the same than Group B.

Schade Deutschland alles ist vorbei!

Knock a lot of wood - beating the Czechs is a pretty big if given that the last time we beat them was in 2000 and even that was with divine (well, referee) intervention.

Two stolen penalties...one dive I think.
The replays convinced me that all three were penalties.

In the last one, the German did not get the ball.
The the middle one, the German grabbed onto the striker's shoulder.
And the first, I cannot remember.

Marla is definately wrong in saying they were all dives.

Marla is definately wrong in saying they were all dives.No I'm not wrong. I'm right since I think like the referee. And the referee is always right since FIFA isn't awara that Lumiere brothers invented the cinematograph in the 19th century that helps us to watch again actions. ;)

Well this being said, the only thing that Latvian guy was expecting was a penalty. And as I hate teams behaving this way, I won't feel sad even if there are really un-whistled faults.

And in a few minutes, when the game starts, our good mate Stapel is gonna be there in the stadium if I'm not mistaken. So everyone paying atention to see if we can spot him in the stands. :D I can only watch the fist half, but I'm counting on you...

If I were dutch I wouldn't be particulary excited about the line-up. I think Robben playing is a good change though.

Has Stapel ever posted his picture anywhere?

Dell: yes he has, on several occasions in "Member photo's V"

Ok People: look for this man; dressed in Orange. He'll be joining the Holland - Czech match. We, normal CFC-ers call him "Stapel"

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/verschil.jpg

More pertinently, is there a place where he hasn't posted his picture ? :D

Yeah.. in the CFC Members Pics Thread


STAPEL:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=1914994&postcount=792

More pertinently, is there a place where he hasn't posted his picture ? :D

Only if the one with the pink shirt doesn't count. ;)

Has Stapel ever posted his picture anywhere?
Quite alot of them actually.

Watch out for strange shirts.

Absolutely sensational stuff.

Somebody call 911 if I don't post after the match, because I'll likely have had one heart attack too many :lol:.

Holland 2-1 Czech Republic at half time.

Nice to watch, both teams play offensive and have ridiculous defence lines, especially the Czechs. As I already said after their Latvia game while their offense might be the best in the world or close to it the defence is less than average. Holland should continue to play like this then they will score more goals than the Czechs.

What an amazing first half ! :eek:

I can't believe how unlucky the dutch have been ! If we count the two times when they've hit the posts and the penalty that haven't been whistled on the fault on Van Nistelrooy, the dutch team could have scored 5 goals at the half time !!

And it's also true the Czechs got several occasions too !

Well, I simply hope the 2nd HT will be as good as the first one ! the Dutch and the Czechs must continue to play this way ! :goodjob:

2-2 and it is a real match. Go Holland, go!

The referee is a pile of crap, that simply isn't a 2nd yellow for Heitinga!

Advocaat took Robben out and then we lost :cry:

Awesome Game! and Nedved's shot deserved to be a goal...

:lol: What a game. Good that they have no idea how to defend. :D

Now Latvia might still make it...

By the way, if I were the Czechs I wouldn't play with any important players in the last group match, now that they're qualified... :mischief:

Advocaat took Robben out and then we lost :cry:

That was one of the stupidest decisions ever... but it was a great game! :D

So Holland have to win against Latvia and hope that Germany don't win...

@Hitro: you are right. This appeared to be a super game, but only because the defenses were a joke.

It's obvious that the referree was against the Dutch, but Advocaat was as well. He took out the best player and immediately the Czechs took over. Did Advocaat want to spare Robben after his injury? Well he did a good job. Robben will be totally fit for his holiday :gripe:

Awesome Game! and Nedved's shot deserved to be a goal...

Yeah, but so did Davids's, Seedorf's and Heitinga's in the first half.

Bosvelt for Robben = F*****ng Stupidest. Substitution. Ever.
Mejuto Gonzalez = sinverguenza perropollas comprado

Heartbreaking.

By the way, if I were the Czechs I wouldn't play with any important players in the last group match, now that they're qualified... :mischief:Indeed, a victory from the Czechs tonight was the best opportunity available for Germany.

What a game it was !
It's true that the Czech have multiplied the mistakes in the defense, but they've also multiplied the shots in the attack. That's why I consider this game, tonight, as the best show of the euro so far. Better than Sweden-Italy.

The red card was silly and Holland probably should have won the game in the first half but the Czechs had their own chances which made it such a great game.

The red card was silly and Holland probably should have won the game in the first half but the Czechs had their own chances which made it such a great game.

I'm too mad atm to think about this. But true...after the joke of a match vs the Germans this was a big change. But it doesn't matter. Germany will make it to the next round. Football isn't a fair game :(

If the Czechs play well against the Germans then Holland should stil go through since all they have to do is win against Latvia :p

I'm so disappointed.....

It should have been a draw at least, this was the best match in the tournament so far and the best 2 teams. We deserve to go to the second round not those Germans who can't even beat Latvia.

Please Chech republic do your duty and beat those Germans.... :(

Advocaat is making a fool of himself now on Dutch television, trying to defend why he saw it correctly with Robben :mad:

I'm so disappointed.....

It should have been a draw at least, this was the best match in the tournament so far and the best 2 teams. We deserve to go to the second round not those Germans who can't even beat Latvia.

If you lose after leading 2-0 the only place you deserve to go is home. :p

Football involves both offense and defence not just one of the two. No team in the group is good at both.

However, Holland's chances are still not too bad, I don't see how Germany should score a goal if they play like today...

Btw I would like to congratulate the Czech republic on being the first team to qualify for the next stage. The only team actually already out is Bulgaria...

I've put some music on, I can't even bear to hear the little 'general ' talk (obscure sexual reference/ pun completely intended).

Russia is out, too. But yeah, congrats to the Czechs. And be advised not to risk any injuries or bookings in the completely pointless last group game. :D

Russia is out, too. But yeah, congrats to the Czechs. And be advised not to risk any injuries or bookings in the completely pointless last group game. :D

So, who did you intend to score the winning German goal in that game - Kuranyi ? Brdaric ? Bobic ? :lol:

:mad:

If it was possible I'd make an official protest against the referee. 2 100% penalties for Holland weren't given and the red card was utterly insane; he didn't even touch him.

So, who did you intend to score the winning German goal in that game - Kuranyi ? Brdaric ? Bobic ? :lol:
Lukas Podolski! :yeah:

But that is indeed the big problem and the only reason why Holland will probably stay at the Euro although neither their defence nor especially Advocaat deserve to.

If you lose after leading 2-0 the only place you deserve to go is home. :p

When you can't even beat Latvia, you don't belong in this tournament in the first place :p


Football involves both offense and defence not just one of the two. No team in the group is good at both.

However, Holland's chances are still not too bad, I don't see how Germany should score a goal if they play like today...

We defend at least as good as the Germans, but we play beautifull offensive footbal that's fun to watch. We score goals, we plan on scoring more then we get against us. That what's makes our footbal and Chech's footbal so great. And that what makes this match the best match so far.

Our chances are bad, because the Chech's may play with a second hand b team against Germany. And Germany would go trough with their ugly footbal.....

Sorry, I'm a little angry right now ;)

When you can't even beat Latvia, you don't belong in this tournament in the first place :p

If thats true how did Latvia get there in the first place? ;)

I think I'm gonna get drunk now...

If it was possible I'd make an official protest against the referee. 2 100% penalties for Holland weren't given and the red card was utterly insane; he didn't even touch him.

As I said, bought. Or playing with blinders on. Or, in the most charitable interpretation, trying to make amends for Collina's easy penalty call in 2000.
In all cases, he should be taken out the back and shot. Twice.

V. Nistelrooij admits that Advocaat made a mistake by taking out Robben :D

As I said, bought. Or playing with blinders on. Or, in the most charitable interpretation, trying to make amends for Collina's easy penalty call in 2000.
In all cases, he should be taken out the back and shot. Twice.

Don't forget his first game: Totti almost crippled a player and he didn't see it!

Advocaat won't keep his job if we don't make it past the first round.....so, bizzarrely, we're left to hope he keeps it a little longer :crazyeye:.

I'm not too worried about the Latvia game based on tonight's form - but no longer having control of ouw own fate worries me. Even given Germany's general crapness (no offense ;) ) - anything can happen.

welcome to the club of teams wronged by the ref ;)

anyway, I still think it was a great match, both defences were rotten, but at least these teams know the word entertainment. most other teams I've seen so far obiously don't

welcome to the club of teams wronged by the ref ;)

Yeah, but we are the only team wronged by the coach :p

Not really...

V. Nistelrooij admits that Advocaat made a mistake by taking out Robben :D

Does that mean that Nistelrooy is out of the team now? ;)

Yeah, but we are the only team wronged by the coach :p
Nah, not really, as Inter said.

France, Italy, Portugal...

Nah, not really, as Inter said.

France, Italy, Portugal...

I know. I know ;)

Why Bosvelt? :confused:
Why not Overmars, Makaay, Kluivert or Zenden even?
Why substitute Robben for a 2nd rate player?
Why?

Nedved has said he is not going to play against the Germans :mad:

This is so sad...

Of course..he is not stupid.

Nedved has said he is not going to play against the Germans :mad:

This is so sad...

Argh!!! And I have him in my team for the dreamteam competition...

What the hell was Advocaat thinking??? What the hell was that referee doing on the pitch? Nistelrooy deserved two penalties (not that it matters, we're Dutch...)! I'm too tired to start explaining the obvious. Bosvelt for Robben.... how crazy can you be. And afterwards he gets mad if the press say he's the one to blame...

for all the Dutch, if you know Hans Teeuwen:


Advocaat, Advocaat,
je kunt nu blijven zitten maar 't is beter als je gaat.

Advocaat, Advocaat,
je redt het niet als trainer met alleen een haarimplantaat.

Dick hoor mij, Dick hoor mij,
zestien miljoen bondscoaches weten het beter dan jij.


IJsbergsla, IJsbergsla,
Advocaat bondscoach maken voor het EK.

Middenveldruit, middenveldruit,
Bosvelt er in, en Robben er uit.

(Advocaat:) Zwarte Piet, Zwarte Piet,
het falen lag aan hen ikke deed het niet.

Snelkookpan, snelkookpan,
behoudend spelen daar winnen we dus niet van.

Why Bosvelt? :confused:
Why not Overmars, Makaay, Kluivert or Zenden even?
Why substitute Robben for a 2nd rate player?
Why?

Because our national coach is a complete moron, that's why. No Dutch team ever sat succesfully on a lead. and he just wanted to continue the tradition :aargh:.

Good one Willem :goodjob:

But I can't laugh about it at this moment :(

Well done to the Czeck Republic, commiserations to the Dutch, it was great game, easily the best of the tournament so far.

I guess Holland's future in the competition depends on how seriously the Czecks take their final game against Germany, considering they have already won the group.

Just like us to play in the greatest games, then lose. Shades of 1994 (vs Brazil) & 1998 (vs Argentina - of course, we postponed losing there)...

I guess Holland's future in the competition depends on how seriously the Czecks take their final game against Germany, considering they have already won the group.

IMO the Czechs don't take their last game serious, for example Nedved (the best Czechian player) will not participate in that game. And probably some other good players will not play in that game too.

And to be honest I can't blame them.

So I think that the chances of the Dutch team to go to the quarter finals are very low.

The Dutch team played well in the first half of this game. The only other time (during the qualification rounds ) I have seen playing them so well was in the play-off against Scotland (we won that game with 6-0).

In all other qualification games and in our game against Germany we played bad. IMO we have to blame our coach for that.

The Netherlands has several good attackers. That's our strong point, whereas our defense is a weaker point. This means that we have to concentrate on the attack and minimise the number of attacks of the opposing country. Unfortunately Advocaat doesn't still understand that.
(otherwise he wouldn't have substituted Robben).

After this tournament we really need a new bondscoach, with a good vision and who understands what the great possibilities of the Dutch team are.

Advocaat is making a fool of himself now on Dutch television, trying to defend why he saw it correctly with Robben :mad:

Well...

I can see why he wanted to get Robben off... although he was playing really, really good, he's not 100% fit. But Overmars or Zenden would've been a good alternative. Especially Zenden could've played a more defending role. Bringing in hotlips Reiziger was cowardly... bringing in Van der Vaart for Seedorf was just...very weird. I would've expected pierre there.

@Hitro and San Pellegrino: After a good performance against the dutch, yesterday Germany sucked a lot. I'd like to know what was the reaction over there, particulary from Beckenbauer and Netzer. :D

The day after. It's unreal to walk through Amsterdam, watch TV, listen to the radio, talk with your family. It's all about Advocaat and Robben. General consensus is that Advocaat should resign NOW. Even my mother agrees :eek: The people are in shock about it.

If he resigns, who should take over. Van Hanegem ? Wouters ? Krol ? Cruyff ? Van Gaal? Koeman? Hiddink?

Who will coach the way the dutch team needs to be coached ?

The people are in shock about it.

Yeah, and it's only sunday... there might be riots in the streets tomorrow. But hey, Germany has to beat Czech Republic B first
:cry: (wishful thinking...) :cry:

He should probably be sacked after the tournament...

Nederland is out. It's happening often, these times, that the better team goes out (like Spain in group A) and the worst wins (Germany will have an easy win, even if they sucked versus Latvia)

My hopes are back up after I heard Cocu point out that the Czechs prefer the Dutch to go to the Quarter-finals and not the Germans. The Dutch play-style suits the Czechs better, and that is true. They can win from the Dutch easier than from the Germans. So I expect Czech-Germany 0-0.

Now only Holland has to do is beat the Latvians...

2/3 of the Chech players play in the Bundesliga, they are going to let the Germans win.

Germany's gonna win because C. Rep. is already qualified and as first of group, so there's no point for them on spending energies..

2/3 of the Chech players play in the Bundesliga, they are going to let the Germans win.
As much as Arsenal let England win last week? :p

I was gonna say that but the situation is different. If France would be already qualified...and England needed to win to qualify..would Arsenal, I mean France let them win? ;)

How can you bring in Bosvelt to counter Nedved? From the moment he came in, Nedved started to get increasingly dangerous. The opposite effect!

V. Nistelrooij admits that Advocaat made a mistake by taking out Robben :DDoes this mean the last Dutch striker has fallen out with the coach? :lol:

The Dutch coach already admitted his mistake. My guess is that when he doesn't listen to the complaints of the team all his credit will be gone. I actually think that the players give him a last chance. The roles are reversed.

What really is remarkable about the match, is that we (the Dutch in general - me included) considered the players to be lazy millionaires without passion or interest in the Dutch squad. They showed us that it is not the case. A lot of Dutch now cherish the players that they cursed a week ago. We were very sceptical to say the least. We at least should give Advocaat the credit that he changed that. But his mistakes during the match are seen as unforgivable.

It's not really those mistakes, but the general ideas behind those mistakes. Those were painful tactical errors, based on a faulty strategy.

The assistant coach of Holland (Van Hanegem) tells the press that he didn't agree with Advocaat. Van Hanegem (a Dutch football icon, but a weird man) replaced Advocaat in the official press conference :hmm:

English reporter: "What will you do next time when Advocaat wants to take out Robben for Bosvelt?"
Van Hanegem: "I will knock him out" (but then in Dutch)

His sense of humor :eek:

Dutch supporters have gathered money to buy a ticket for Advocaat to send him back home. :D

But I'm not without hope. The Czechs say they're very eager to win, because frankly they have the attitude against Germany as we have. ;) Besides, Portugal & Germany were in the exact same position four years ago as Czech Republic & Germany are now, and still Portugal knocked te Germans out with 3-0. (Or so I've heard on tv.) And about Nedved not playing: Jouri Mulder said it might even be better, because Nedved might spare himself if he had to play anyway, resulting in a team of 10 men.

All in all, I say our chance of succeeding is 50%. http://www.straland.com/images/smilies/Satan.gif

"Advocaat na omsteden wissel vogelvrij"
- NRC Handelsblad, 21-06-2004

("Advocaat outlawed after controversial change")

And no one to play the Devil's Advocaat ? :p

Johan Cruyff did.

Johan Cruyff did.

Hardly! He was very careful in his wording, but I clearly understood that he disliked the tactical choices of Advocaat. He has done it troughout the tournament (and far before it as well). Cruijff is THE man in Dutch football and he knows that everything he says has an enormous impact. I respect him for the fact that he didn't want to 'kill' Advocaat.

I don't think the Czechs will be easy prey, I have bad memories of the loss vs. the portuguese B-team in 2000.

edit: 2000 posts, OMG, I spent way too much time here

edit: 2000 posts, OMG, I spent way too much time here

No you don't ;)

I don't think the Czechs will be easy prey, I have bad memories of the loss vs. the portuguese B-team in 2000.

I think it will all be about the attitude the team (the German one) plays with.

By the way, which strikers should play? Kuranyi seems to be set and I'd actually like to see Podolski besides him. I guess Völler will probably play with Bobic again...


edit: 2000 posts, OMG, I spent way too much time here
Yeah, you suck... ;)

I respect him for the fact that I didn't want to 'kill' Advocaat.

Which was almost the same as playing the devil's advocate.... But hey, they didn't lose qualification by losing of the czechs, but by not beating the Germans. No one expected us to beat the czechs.

ok, maybe I shouldn't complain in the sports forum where only wackos are around ;)

I don't know about Podolski, he didn't play one minute until now and shall save it? maybe that is too big a burden for him.

edit: 2000 posts, OMG, I spent way too much time here

Some of us have spent a lot more time here... :(

How good is Podolski since I haven't seen him play?

How good is Podolski since I haven't seen him play?
Not worse than Bobic or Brdaric and currently also Klose, which is all that matters to me.

He is 19 or something and hasn't played much more than half a season yet but scored in about every second game. And that for the team in last place, Cologne.
I don't expert any miracles from him I just think the alternatives aren't better. Bobic shouldn't even be there, Klose is out of form and Brdaric hasn't showed more either.

So you're gonna play with two strikers again?

Maybe not. Völler indicated something like a return to the one striker strategy lately. Which would still be better than playing with Bobic...

In tha case would it be tha same squad that played against the dutch, with Nowotny returning from injuree and Baumann playing against in front of the defence? Has someone got two yellow cards? Or do you think Schweinsteiger will relegate Schneider to the bench?

In tha case would it be tha same squad that played against the dutch, with Nowotny returning from injuree and Baumann playing against in front of the defence? Has someone got two yellow cards? Or do you think Schweinsteiger will relegate Schneider to the bench?
There are no yellow card problems and the defense would probably be the same as in the Holland game. It's lately been said that Schweinsteiger will probably play.

I find it quite unbelievable that a team needing to win is going to battle against the subs of Czechia (who don't have a real incentive to play) with only ONE striker. If I were Völler at least I'd put this Schweinsteiger-guy in, he looked quite dangerous at times against Holland. Then again, I'm not Völler, and of course I hope the Dutch will proceed to the QF.

Are the Czechs going to play? Would it be unfair of them to field a weakened team?

I reckon they can sit in the centre circle for 90 mins if they want - they've earned it by winning their first 2 games.

I wouldn't blame the Czechs when they lose the game. The Dutch simply have to blame themselves when they don't make it.

Davids has his own smiley :scan:

I wouldn't blame the Czechs when they lose the game. The Dutch simply have to blame themselves when they don't make it.

Agreed! :goodjob:





BTW, I think I'll be supproting Latvia tonight... :)

Wouldn't that be fun, Latvia in the final eight.... :D

BTW, I think I'll be supproting Latvia tonight... :)

Wouldn't that be fun, Latvia in the final eight.... :D
That would be the perfect result. Just like last time, when both Germany and England had to go home. :D