Welll, well, well, here's my favorite group..I wonder why :mischief:

Teams: Bulgaria, Denmark, Italy, Sweden

Matches:

June 14th
Denmark - Italy (18:00)
Sweden - Bulgaria (20:45)

June 18th
Bulgaria - Denmark (18:00)
Italy - Sweden (20:45)

June 22nd
Italy - Bulgaria (20:45)
Denmark - Sweden (20:45)


Discuss :D :

Out of the realistic favourites I hope that Italy will win the tournament. On the other hand I hate Trapattoni's philosophy of football.

Go Danish dynamite!

Whoever from group C will get through, will be beaten by either Germany or Holland in the 1/4 finals.
No reason to open a thread for this group.

I'm guessing Italy and Sweden to go through.

Whoever from group C will get through, will be beaten by either Germany or Holland in the 1/4 finals.
No reason to open a thread for this group.

:lol: Funny how you are so sure about it.

http://www.3dflags.com/assets/XV21AE/gif/2/i/3dflagsdotcom_italy_2faws.gif Italy vs Denmark http://www.3dflags.com/assets/XV21AE/gif/2/d/3dflagsdotcom_denma_2faws.gif

CFC Average prediction : Italy 1.6 - 0.7 Denmark
Italy picked as winner : 17
Denmark picked as winner : 1
Deuce : 6


http://www.3dflags.com/assets/XV21AE/gif/2/b/3dflagsdotcom_bulga_2faws.gif Bulgaria vs Sweden http://www.3dflags.com/assets/XV21AE/gif/2/s/3dflagsdotcom_swena_2faws.gif

CFC Average prediction : Bulgaria 0.6 - 1.4 Sweden
Bulgaria picked as winner : 2
Sweden picked as winner : 18
Deuce : 4


N.B. Those figures announce only CFC favorites and certainly not potential winners. No one predicted a victory of Greece on yesterday and they've still won.

Anyone is a potential winner simply by playing...

Anyone is a potential winner simply by playing...Exactly.

Well actually, I've put that reminder when I've posted the same kind of post for the group B. Indeed, they were predicting a French victory, and I wanted to make it clear with God that I didn't think it was won before being played.

God has actually avenged me for posting predictions giving France a win but finally He has listened me praying during 90 minutes. I respect Him deepfully.

woman, God has nothing to do with this..

why does god always help french women

why does god always help french women

:lol:


an idiom exists here, "living like god in france", I guess the french women do him some favours for that ;)

Didn't help France at the last World cup...

he helped brazil, since those poors players need a divine help..:lol:

he helped brazil, since those poors players need a divine help..:lol:

If I remember correctly, they all were wearing shirts which said 'I love Jesus' or similar under their jerseys. If not for that, Germany clearly would have won the World Cup. :cool:

Anyways, Italy v Denmark. YES, I get to watch this game on TV and it's going to be LIVE, LIVE, LIVE and FREE, FREE, FREE!!!

GO DENMARK!!!

Only 5 games shown live here, all others are pay-per-view :mad:

Only 5 games shown live here, all others are pay-per-view :mad:

So pay ;) !

which games are free?

This must be a really good group if your Swedish.

1. Italy are the favourites, so the Swedes will be happy with 2nd place, but...
2. Denmark are arch rivals in everything, so 2nd place will not be easy either.

Poor Bulgaria :p

Bulgaria might get a point or two if they are underestimated... They did win their qualifying group so they must be capable of something.

Bulgaria is indeed underestimated the same way Greece was.

The Danes have a fine squad (fine, nor great). Groenkjaer on the left, Sand in the Middle, Rommedahl on the right, Tomasson behind them, six defenders, one goalkeeper. When they don't make too many mistakes, they have a fair chance.

Remember: Italy is a slowstarter!

The early pressure is all Danish and italy seem to be hanging on.

Bah! Sweden will win this group easy. The Italians spend to much time faking injuries to win. Bulgaria just haven't got what it takes to win over Sweden. And about the Danish... well whatever Denmark can do well, Sweden can do the same thing just a little bit better.

:D

Referee doesn't like the Danes much.

One Danish gets a yellow card for being pushed down in the penalty area, and another gets ignored when pushed down in the penalty area. Denmark deserve to be leading, they have played much better than Italy.

Denmark 0-0 Italy at halftime. Great match, in my view the best of the tournament so far. The Danes are really good. But what the hell did the referee do in that scene where Tomasson got booked?!?

Sorensen is playing brilliantly.

He had the two saves late in the first half, and just saved an excellent header.

Tote/Totti (whatever) played really well. He has loads of skill. Let down by a lacklustre team.

Yeah, Sörensen was great. As was Denmark in general, in my view the best team so far.
They played much better than France against a well organized defence, they just had far less luck.

Denmark 0 - 0 Italy. Fair result.

What a game, depite the 0-0, the best Euro Game so far IMO.

But I think Denmark deserved to win, for the fine work they made.

I think Denmark played much better than Italy. Their creativity was superb and Tomasson, Helveg and Rommadahl were brilliant.

Italy got better as the game went on, but Del Piero was poor, although i was confused at the ITV commentator's comment that he was looking fat :hmm:

Overall, a game of the goalkeepers.

Italy were a real disappointment for me. The only sparks up front come from Totti and they were few and far between. Denmark on the other hand looked very impressive. I'd be surprised if they don't qualify for the next round.

A good game, I didn't think Italy played that poorly but they should still be able to improve their game. Denmark did well and the 0-0 was a fair result with no team truely dominating and deserving all three points. Will be interesting to see how the group progresses as its not so clear cut now that Italy will qualify.

Sweden 1-0 Bulgaria at halftime.

A very fast-paced and interesting match. Bulgaria did a little more but Sweden simply have a great attack with players like Zlatan, Ljungberg and Larsson.
Bulgaria played alot like expected, great in the attack but very vulnerable in their defense.

Bulgaria should have had a penalty in the 6th minute. Although it was accidental, it was a foul => Penalty (no yellow).

2 great goals in a couple of minutes by Hendrik Larson. 3-0 to Sweden.

Dancing Queen, hear the beat on the tambourine.....

Italy's out of the group. Bulgaria will win. We might not continue on quarter final, but Italy will lose. So, I guess Sweden and Denmark will go on. And Holland will be the champion. But I don't care much about football, so my prediction is very poor. I just hate the Italian team. They play very ugly - goal, defense, win, don't like it. Holland has the best style. Well, that is my opinion. Don't mean to offend anyone.

I hope Italy goes out as well, just cause they play "the boring game". Denmark should have won that game!!!


which games are free?

Denmark-Italy
Croatia-France
Italy-Sweden
Switzerland-France
Denmark-Sweden

After group play all games will be shown, but on 3-day delay. :mad: Oh well, at least I'll be able to watch them.

Bulgaria will win.

They have a lot of work to do after just losing 5-0 to the Swedes.

But the 5-0 is far too high. It might indeed become very hard for Italy...

Great game tonight, Sweden's fantastic attackers combined with Bulgaria's rather bad defence made the difference. But Bulgaria shouldn't be underestimated, they had no luck tonight otherwise they should have scored more than once against the certainly not bad Swedish defence...

That was a really cruel result. Bulgaria lack discipline at the back, and once Sweden realised there were gaping holes it became a white wash. Good game though.

Italy have a reputation for starting badly and steadily improving, but if that doesn't apply this year then I think both Sweden and Bulgaria will take advantage of the sluggish play we saw earlier tonight.

9 Sweden
6 Bulgaria
1 Denmark
1 Italy

Nah I'd say Sweden and Denmark..

7 Sweden
6 Denmark
4 Italy
3 or 1 Bulgaria

Or:
7 Italy
5 Denmark
4 Sweden
1 Bulgaria

Whatever....

Predictions:
Italy - Sweden 1-2
Denmark - Sweden 0-2

What you guys (and girl) have to realize is that Sweden will win this tournament. No doubt about it. So, my fellow Europeans, do yourselves a favour and go home cuz yall aint got nuhin on Sweden! :lol: <----- (Evil Laughter, moahaha)

Good game. :) 5-0 is a nice result.

Very nice game! Especially in contrast to the boredom that was danmark-italy. I'm wondering how the attacking swedes will do v.s. the defending italians... If the azurri don't play any better, I won't be surprised if Sweden'll just... win.

I reckon Denmark have the beating of Sweden.

What a boring game this afternoon. I hope that Italy fears now Sweden and begins to play. The best way to do this is removing Del Piero with his bird and let Cassano play instead. And why not, Pirlo could be the missing tile. He didn't play today but he's the only one who can build some actions from behind instead of just throwing long balls

I reckon Denmark have the beating of Sweden.

I'm still going for Sweden to qualify from the group...

I thought Bulgaria in the first half were the better team and with better strikers and more luck they would have been in front. Sweden did run away with it in the second half but I think that's due more to Bulgaria's poor defence than Sweden's amazing forward play. Denmark played extremely well against Italy. I especially like how they play with two out-and-out wingers. They have a well-organised defence and Poulsen ran the midfield. Overall Denmark impressived me more than Sweden. I also reckon that Italy will beat Sweden, if Trapattoni does a little bit of tactical tinkering.

The Italians are missing Filippo Inzaghi - he's a lot more dangerous than Totti and Del Piero. Is he injured, or why isn't he on the team?

Denmark-Sweden might turn out a tie, but it'll be hard for Denmark because Sweden is a lot less static than the Italians were. I doubt Denmark will have the same luxury of having so much space against the Swedes. I tend to agree that once the Italians are warmed up, Sweden might be getting some trouble with them, most of all because of the Italian quality players up in front. Tough group.

He was injured during most part of the season. That's why Trpattoni didn't call him.

Bulgaria v Denmark might actually be quite interesting to see whether Denmark will have an easy game or whether Bulgaria will bounce back and make it far harder for the opposition to score.

I hear this morning that the Italians are blaming their shoes and socks :lol: :lol: :lol:

And the heat, don't forget the heat. As opposed to the warm weather in Sweden, i suppose its alot colder in Italy then in Portugal....

Italian players are well known to start whining as soon as anything goes wrong... and our sport hournalists are even worse.
I am only partially relieved when I see that most of them are more or less the same all over the world :rolleyes:

Actually, it was the commentator the fist one I heard complaining about the heat, when he said that "after all, the Danes were better accustomed to the hot and humid weather"... right after the match -I could only see the final minutes because of my own karate training. But living in Italy I had several opportunities to see it over and over again, and hear about it about every other hour...

In addition, you might have noticed that it was del Piero the first one to ask for water during the match, after spending the unbelievable length of 110 seconds on the field. But that's del Piero... :p

And yes, they did complain about their socks (the stitches, oh my, those stitches -don't they hurt!) and boots. Several times, actually.

Totti is an extraordinary player, but he should have been shown the red card instead of the yellow, and he deserves a ban for spitting in Poulsen's face.


Having said that, I still think that our national does play some reasonable football (now and then) and I doubt they'll go home at the first round. We'll see...

Tottl is out for the rest of the tournament because of his spitting. Maybe those tight shoes gave him a rush of blood to the head?
What is it about European championships and spitting anyway?

I thought Bulgaria in the first half were the better team and with better strikers and more luck they would have been in front. Sweden did run away with it in the second half but I think that's due more to Bulgaria's poor defence than Sweden's amazing forward play. Denmark played extremely well against Italy. I especially like how they play with two out-and-out wingers. They have a well-organised defence and Poulsen ran the midfield. Overall Denmark impressived me more than Sweden. I also reckon that Italy will beat Sweden, if Trapattoni does a little bit of tactical tinkering.
==

Bit of Sour grapes there Mr. P? considering one of Europe's finest strikers is former Celtic star Larrson?? With contender for goal of the tournament! I thought Sweden played really well and will at worse draw with Italy and certainly beat Denmark.

Swedes for the Final.!

Hmm... MrPresident is a Celtic fan...

Hmm... MrPresident is a Celtic fan...

==


Maybe's , but his first Team is Liverpool.

Yes, it is Liverpool and then Celtic. Your justification for his prediction of a victory for Italy would still be very twisted.

Yup. I have to say I fully agree with MrPresident's view on this. Bulgaria were much better that (or Sweden in return not as good as) the result seems to tell.

And I do want Sweden to beat Italy...

Yes, it is Liverpool and then Celtic. Your justification for his prediction of a victory for Italy would still be very twisted.

==

Whatever,

I'm quite happy for either Italy or Sweden to win the tournament

All I was saying was I didn't agree with his statement re "Sweden's amazing forward play"
with one of the best goals scored so far and some slick interplay I thought Sweden played really well.

Whatever indeed, you just don't need to take any little faith on Aweden as an indirect to Celtic. :p
I'm also quite happy with either Sweden or Italy to win the tournament.

Whatever indeed, you just don't need to take any little faith on Aweden as an indirect to Celtic. :p
I'm also quite happy with either Sweden or Italy to win the tournament.

==


Fair point McDread, with my own country Scotland not being present (cause were mince) my allegiance is now with Sweden or indeed any team that is currently playing Engerland! :-) and again I was being too harsh to Mr. P he is entitled to his own opinion, Fridays game will decide who is Right!.

Amazing. Tomasson didn't miss an unmissable chance. Unlike the bulgarians...

Not exactly a good game either. And couldn't Sand have scored in the last minute...

Gravesen's legs were the target for the bulgarians. I think that there were 4 yellow cards for fouls on him. The bulgarians were alright in the first half of the Sweden game, but today they sucked completely. In the 2nd half there was a corner for them, they were loosing, and only had 3 players in the area. :rolleyes:

They were bad indeed but it was a foul before Petrov was sent off. So instead of a good free kick chance and Jensen being sent off it led to three yellow cards including one guy being sent off for the Bulgarians.

Bloomin' heck, the Italians sing with Gusto !
I was roused from my wandering thoughts to the sight and sound of 'Italia, Italia' and some guy in the crowd attempting to cramp his neck muscles.

The Swedes merely looked embarrased about their singing voices.

Should be a good game, Sweden are attacking and Italy are a solid team. I think Italy will win though overall.

1-0 to Italy...

This is bizarre, I'm really enjoying watching the Italians play. Maybe they should have banned Totti for 5 matches instead ? :mischief:

Maybe they should need to win more often. It shows how much attacking potential they have if Trapattoni lets them play.
Best performance of any team so far in my view.

1-1 it ends. Good game. Now Sweden only needs a draw against Denmark to qualify.

Amazing goal by Ibrahimovic, that. I thought he was pretty excellent throughout too. Italy failed to take their chances and they would have done better to take Vieri off rather than Cassano and Del Piero.
Great fightback by the Swedes though.

Was a very nice goal by the Swedes, lucky but a nice finish... If Sweden and Denmark draw then Italy will need to score 2 or 3 goals against Bulgaria to go through depending on how many goals Sweden and Denmark were to draw by.

I'm so sad for Italy. :(

Italy, Denmark and Sweden, all the three deserve to qualify for the quarters. On the other side, when I see how bad have played France yesterday, I start to think only England deserve to get through in the group B. :cry:

Anyway, if France continues to play as they've played untill now, they'll lose against Switzerland and won't be qualified. Which wouldn't be undeserved.

Sorry to talk about such a poor group as the group B... especially in the thread about the best group of the competition.

Congratulations to Italians, Swedes, and Danes !
You are all wonderful !

Wooo! Go Sweden. That was the best game of the tournament, renegating England v France to second place :)

Gotta be careful with Italy: in practically every tournament they start out really slow and improve dramatically with time.

Denmark 1 - 1 Sweden, and Italy go home... right?

I wonder is some Scandinavian Unity will take place :mischief:

If it can happen in the Eurovision, it can happen in the European Championships ;)

No regardless of how Sweden and Denmark draw, an Italy victory by three goals or more would see them go through as they would then have a better goal difference than Denmark. 2-0 might be good enough in the same situation but only if Sweden and Denmark draw 0-0. No idea what happens if Italy win 2-0 and Sweden and Denmark draw 1-1 with Sweden as Sweden would definately go through but Denmark and Italy would be level on everything...

No regardless of how Sweden and Denmark draw, an Italy victory by three goals or more would see them go through as they would then have a better goal difference than Denmark. 2-0 might be good enough in the same situation but only if Sweden and Denmark draw 0-0. No idea what happens if Italy win 2-0 and Sweden and Denmark draw 1-1 with Sweden as Sweden would definately go through but Denmark and Italy would be level on everything...
Then it would be about fair play and odd things like the UEFA coefficient.

Then it would be about fair play and odd things like the UEFA coefficient.

How about a flip of a coin? I doubt Italy would do that well on fair play points... :mischief:

How about a flip of a coin? I doubt Italy would do that well on fair play points... :mischief:
Flip of the coin (or some other kind of lottery) is indeed the last resort. :D

If Sweden and Denmark draw 2-2, Italy will go home, no matter for how much they beat Bulgaria. This is exactly why I don't like the method UEFA uses in its competitions to separate teams levelled on points. Sweden and Denmark now can very well arrange a 2-2, and the 3 teams will finish with the same goal average in the games between themselves, but Sweden will be first with 3 goals scored, Denmark second with 2 and Italy third with 1. I very much prefer the method of FIFA, counting first the goal average in all the group games. This ensures that situations like this don't happen and we reach the last matchday without knowing that if two teams finish with the same number of points, team A will be ahead because of team B no matter what happens.

About the game, for the first hour, it was finally "una bella Italia", the best of the competition so far, and by far. But then, since they have Trapattoni as a coach, they stopped attacking and Sweden punished Trap's coward tactics and rightly so. Now Italy is in a very delicate situation, and they have only themselves to blame, or should I say, their coach. Del Piero, free from the previous tactical constraints was spectacular as was golden boy Cassano, a real asset for the future. Panucci is a player that I dislike, but i have to admit that he was brilliant today and Gattuso was much better than Zanetti (what does Trap see in the guy anyway). Vieri is in a low form, otherwise Italy would have won. A pitty that Del Piero's chip didn't go in.

Sweden was outplayed for much of the game, but then Trap gave them the control of the game. They filled their attack with tall and strong forwards and it payed off in that spectacular goal by Ibrahimovic.

Great game, but a real pity that the best team of the competition potentailly is now in this situation and has such a moron coach. In fact, this tournament is full of coaches without any vision at all.

If Sweden and Denmark draw 2-2, Italy will go home, no matter for how much they beat Bulgaria. This is exactly why I don't like the method UEFA uses in its competitions to separate teams levelled on points. Sweden and Denmark now can very well arange a 2-2, and the 3 teams will finish with the same goal average in the games between themselves, but Sweden will be first with 3 goals scored, Denmark second with 2 and Italy third with 1.No you're wrong here. If Sweden and Denmark draws. That would mean the 3 teams would have made draws between each other and thus, the goal average would qualify the two first teams.

As a result, Italy needs to score 3-0 to get qualified in this case. But it can still qualify ;)

(In case of 2-0, it would be the top scoring team and as such, it would depend on how the tie would be between Denmark and Sweden.)

Is it really so that they also use direct results when there are three teams with the same number of points?

Now seeing Marla's post I have to say that's how I thought it was, too. At least in earlier tournaments it was direct result between two teams but complete groups results, i.e. goal difference between three teams.

Great game, but a real pity that the best team of the competition potentailly is now in this situation and has such a moron coach. In fact, this tournament is full of coaches without any vision at all.Even if Santini is certainly not the only responsible, I would count him in that category too. :(

What a lovely point that was. :) And what a goal. And the game too. I am out of words. :)

I can't understand Italy though. They have been playing football for what, 100 years, and still haven't learned how dangerous it is to sink back on a 1-0 lead. Thanks, Trappatoni.

Now seeing Marla's post I have to say that's how I thought it was, too. At least in earlier tournaments it was direct result between two teams but complete groups results, i.e. goal difference between three teams.Even if it's the direct results, they would all have made draws ! This way, it's impossible to make a distinction !

Now I'm confused... How is it fair to say that Denmark and Sweden should both go through because they score the most goals against each other when goal difference is not equal? I thought it went to goal difference once 3 teams were level on points.

Even if it's the direct results, they would all have made draws ! This way, it's impossible to make a distinction !
No, not at all. It would be possible to only use the goal difference of their three games. And then the more scored goals would decide, which would lead to the dilemma for Italy that MCdread described.
Only if they would include the results against the fourth team as well that can be avoided.

No, not at all. It would be possible to only use the goal difference of their three games. And then the more scored goals would decide, which would lead to the dilemma for Italy that MCdread described.
Only if they would include the results against the fourth team as well that can be avoided.Now that's totally unfair. :(

I think they count red/yellow cards, bookings and such like. Anything that's in the official tables.

Now that's totally unfair. :(
You could also say to include the results against a team that isn't level on points was totally unfair. The Bulgarians are already out, is it fair to count their result against Italy just like the one against Denmark where they still had a chance?
It is basically a matter of taste. I do agree with yours, but I wouldn't say one is more fair than the other.
It would however be more consequent to use only the direct results. Why should they do that between two teams (not include the two others) but then include the fourth if three teams are level on points?

I think they count red/yellow cards, bookings and such like. Anything that's in the official tables.
Actually what they'd do first is using the qualifying results they already used for the group draw. Which means a double advantage for the teams with the higher coefficient there. Now that is definetely unfair, especially as they include the WC2002 qualification but not the tournament itself. :crazyeye:

So clearly the victory 5-0 against Bulgaria was just a waste of time ? :rolleyes:

No people: the fist criterium is number of points between the teams, so all three with 3 points; the second goal average in the games between the 3 teams, so all with a goal average of 0; the third criterium is the NUMBER OF GOALS IN THE GAMES BETWEEN THE THREE TEAMS, so, if Denmark and Sweden draw 2-2 or higher, it is Sweden first, Denmark second and Italy third, no matter if Italy beats Bulgaria by 8 goals.

You could also say to include the results against a team that isn't level on points was totally unfair.The purpose is to determine the best teams out of 4, not out of 3. If Italy wins 12-0 against Bulgaria... it's quite more meaningful than two teams neutralizing each other at 2-2.

The purpose is to determine the best teams out of 4, not out of 3.
Then why do you agree with it when it is about two teams?

I generally prefer goal difference to direct comparison, but they changed it to that some time in the 90s I think.

the second goal average in the games between the 3 teams
Where do you get that from?

If you want the complete list, number 4 is the goal average in all the group games, which will matter for Denmark/Sweden and Italy if the game ends 0-0 or 1-1. The important one would be 1-1, because the untie would have to be for 2nd and 3rd.
Number 5 is number of goals scored in all the group games.
Number 6 is the results in the qualifyings for WC 2002 and EC 2004.
Number7 is fair play.
Number 8 is the lottery.

Hitro, it's against the first rule of football tournaments which should be to make all games meaningfull and to promote the most goals possible. When a draw is at 0-0, 1-1 or 2-2, it's still a draw !

I accept the rule of specific goal average when it's about GOAL AVERAGE. But when it's about the MOST GOALS scored, then I see no reason why it should remain this way. It's not this way that you motivate teams to score as much as they can in any games of the competition.

Then why do you agree with it when it is about two teams?

I generally prefer goal difference to direct comparison, but they changed it to that some time in the 90s I think.

Yes, it was, but only in UEFA events. In FIFA events it is the old system, which I very much prefer, because it never leads to situations like this.


Where do you get that from?

It is allways like this in UEFA. :p But it is in my newspaper. :D

Well, the UEFA site says the following:

Tie breakers
If teams finish level on points, then the winner of the match between the sides in question will finish highest, or should they have drawn, goal difference, followed by goals scored, qualifying record for the 2002 FIFA World Cup and UEFA EURO 2004™, a fair play ranking and finally either a penalty shoot-out or drawing of lots.

"Should they have drawn", so in case of three teams: "be equal on points" -> goal difference. Now doesn't that mean the complete goal difference?

Where do you get yours from, B.?

So this way, if Sweden Denmark ends at 1-1, Denmark is disqualified ? Even if Italy wins 1-0 ?

That's meaningless !

It is allways like this in UEFA. :p But it is in my newspaper. :D
I think in the CL it was complete goal difference between three teams. In fact I can't recall ever having seen the other option.

So this way, if Sweden Denmark ends at 1-1, Denmark is disqualified ? Even if Italy wins 1-0 ?
No, then Denmark and Italy would both have a goal difference of 1-1 in the three games and the Bulgaria ones would be included. If Sweden Denmark ends 0-0 Denmark would be eliminated in that system.

So this way, if Sweden Denmark ends at 1-1, Denmark is disqualified ? Even if Italy wins 1-0 ?

That's meaningless !
Both Denmark and Italy topped their qualifier groups :p

How did Denmark do at the World Cup? :confused:

So this way, if Sweden Denmark ends at 1-1, Denmark is disqualified ? Even if Italy wins 1-0 ?


No, in that case, it will come down to how many goals the italians beat the bulgarians. If they win by 3 or by 3-1, 4-2, etc. Italy is through to the quarters. If they draw 0-0, Denmark is out even if Italy only wins by 1-0. In that case, Sweden is first unless Italy wins by 6 goals.

No, then Denmark and Italy would both have a goal difference of 1-1 in the three games and the Bulgaria ones would be included. If Sweden Denmark ends 0-0 Denmark would be eliminated in that system.Yes you're right, but still. This system is simply more complicate, not better. As I've said, the results of all games should count. Considering some games count for nothing is against the interests of the competition.

As I've said, the results of all games should count.
I still think they do.

I think in the CL it was complete goal difference between three teams. In fact I can't recall ever having seen the other option.

No it wasn't. It were the two games between the tied teams. It's also like that in the qualification, but not in the qualification fo the WC.

No it wasn't. It were the two games between the tied teams. It's also like that in the qualification, but not in the qualification fo the WC.
Wait. It is direct comparison between two teams, but not between three. That is all I'm saying all the time.

In fact, a few years ago it was even worse, when the best second place also qualified directly for the EC finals, avoiding the play-off. Then, only the number of points against the 4 top teams in each group counted.

In fact, a few years ago it was even worse, when the best second place also qualified directly for the EC finals, avoiding the play-off. Then, only the number of points against the 4 top teams in each group counted.
That's true, but that's not relevant in this case. In the four team groups, i.e. World Cup, CL and EURO, it's been direct comparison between two teams tied on points and complete goal difference between three.

The tie breaker rules from the UEFA site I posted above indicate the same here.

Wait. It is direct comparison between two teams, but not between three. That is all I'm saying all the time.

Between all the teams of course. If it's two teams it's two games, if it's 3 teams it's 6 games that count. But with 6 games in the CL group, the probability of getting three teams levelled on points is smaller than here. That's all I meant.

I am Sweden and I want to pass to next round. Am I qualified if it's 0-0 ? Yes. Am I qualified if it's 1-1 ? Yes (5 goals against Bulg.). Am I qualified if it's another deuce ? Yes. So I should play it defensively.

I am Denmark and I want the same. Am I qualified if it's 0-0 ? Only if Italy doesn't win against Bulgaria. Am I qualified if it's 1-1 ? Only if Italy doesn't win 3-0, or 3-1 (In case of 2-0 I don't know). Other deuce I'm qualified too. Well, then, I have interests in winning the game ? Unless Bulgaria scores the first against Italy and then we can play to cards together with the swedes.

Between all the teams of course. If it's two teams it's two games, if it's 3 teams it's 6 games that count. But with 6 games in the CL group, the probability of getting three teams levelled on points is smaller than here. That's all I meant.
Yeah but for our case here that means your scenario with Italy doesn't exist. If Italy win by a margin of three goals they are through no matter how the Scandinavians draw.

I am Sweden and I want to pass to next round. Am I qualified if it's 0-0 ? Yes. Am I qualified if it's 1-1 ? Yes (5 goals against Bulg.). Am I qualified if it's another deuce ? Yes. So I should play it defensively.

I am Denmark and I want the same. Am I qualified if it's 0-0 ? Only if Italy doesn't win against Bulgaria. Am I qualified if it's 1-1 ? Only if Italy wins 3-0, or 3-1 (In case of 2-0 I don't know). Other deuce I'm qualified too. Well, then, I have interests in winning the game ? Unless Bulgaria scores the first against Italy and then we can play to cards together with the swedes.
As I see it:

Sweden: Needs a draw, no matter the goals

Denmark: Definetely through with a win. If they lose only if Italy doesn't win, if they draw only if their goal difference in all games, including Bulgaria, is better than Italy's.

I am Sweden and I want to pass to next round. Am I qualified if it's 0-0 ? Yes. Am I qualified if it's 1-1 ? Yes (5 goals against Bulg.). Am I qualified if it's another deuce ? Yes. So I should play it defensively.

I am Denmark and I want the same. Am I qualified if it's 0-0 ? Only if Italy doesn't win against Bulgaria. Am I qualified if it's 1-1 ? Only if Italy wins 3-0, or 3-1 (In case of 2-0 I don't know). Other deuce I'm qualified too. Well, then, I have interests in winning the game ? Unless Bulgaria scores the first against Italy and then we can play to cards together with the swedes.

The other possibility is: I am Denmark and I want to qualify, and so does Sweden. Do we both qualify with 0-0? Only if Italy doesn't win against Bulgaria. Do we both qualify if it's 1-1? Only if Italy doesn't beat Bulgaria by more than I did. Do we both qualify with 2-2? YES! Great, let's give our neighbours a phone call and get the job done.

That's the danger that FIFA and UEFA wanted to avoid after the shameful Germany-Austria of 1982 by scheduling the last group games at the same hour, but with this UEFA system it is not entirely possible as we see here.

As I see it:

Sweden: Needs a draw, no matter the goals

Denmark: Definetely through with a win. If they lose only if Italy doesn't win, if they draw only if their goal difference in all games, including Bulgaria, is better than Italy's.I agree. This way, it's not so sure the game ends as a tie. It's true it's a scandinavian derby, but do they really know well each other ?

Yeah but for our case here that means your scenario with Italy doesn't exist. If Italy win by a margin of three goals they are through no matter how the Scandinavians draw.

No man! In the CL each team plays each other twice. So if 3 teams are equal on points they check the results of 6 games, the games between the 3 teams. It is more unlikely because thee are more games to decide. But if say, five of the games between teams A, B and C were 0-0, and team A plays Team B in the last round, they both stay ahead of team C if they draw 1-1.

Do we both qualify with 2-2? YES!
No you don't. :p

I thought we had gone back to the sensible option that if three teams finish level on points then it goes to total goal difference so Denmark would not be certain of qualification at 2-2?

No man! In the CL each team plays each other twice. So if 3 teams are equal on points they check the results of 6 games, the games between the 3 teams. It is more unlikely because thee are more games to decide. But if say, five of the games between teams A, B and C were 0-0, and team A plays Team B in the last round, they both stay ahead of team C if they draw 1-1.
Well again, I think it's different here. If you should be right that would indeed make your scenario possible.
However, it's not that easy to "plan" a mutual 2-2 deal, compared with a 0-0 for example.

I just looked into a football magazine I have here and that seems to confirm what MCdread said. Now that would really suck, although I still don't think a 2-2 would be easy to "manufacture".

I just looked into a football magazine I have here and that seems to confirm what MCdread said. Now that would really suck, although I still don't think a 2-2 would be easy to "manufacture".

It wouldn't, but if it happens, the ghost will haunt us for a long time. Provided of course, that Italy does her job.

In fact, the controversy would be so big that in the end, a 2-2 is pehaps the last result Denmark and Sweden would want. Otherwise, they'll never get rid of the suspicion.

It wouldn't, but if it happens, the ghost will haunt us for a long time.
How many people do still know 1982... :mischief:

How many people do still know 1982... :mischief:

I have a feeling that some people that don't know will see references to it in the coming days. :D

Was that Austria v Germany?

Even if Santini is certainly not the only responsible, I would count him in that category too. :(

Santini is exactly the coach I had in mind. So far, in the worst coaches classification the podium would look like:

1- Santini
2- Yartsev
3- Trapattoni
(Dis)honourable mention: Scolari, Saéz, Advocaat

Was that Austria v Germany?
I, err, don't remember. :mischief:

Hey, I was two years old...

Santini is exactly the coach I had in mind. So far, in the worst coaches classification the podium would look like:

1- Santini
2- Yartsev
3- Trapattoni
(Dis)honourable mention: Scolari, Saéz, Advocaat
Why Yartsev? The Russian's simply aren't good enough, I fear.

The thing is that then it was the germans and the austrians. I mean, the germans and the austrians! I repeat: germans... and austrians.
Whereas now, it would be a shock if it was done by those nice scandinavian guys.

The thing is that then it was the germans and the austrians. I mean, the germans and the austrians! I repeat: germans... and austrians.
Whereas now, it would be a shock if it was done by those nice scandinavian guys.
Are you implying Germans and Austrians did other evil things together while the Scandinavians didn't? How does ABBA fit in that picture?

Still I don't think it will happen, one of the Scandinavians will lose and Italy will go through. It is more likely that they fail against Bulgaria than that they will be the victims of a Nordic conspiracy.

Why Yartsev? The Russian's simply aren't good enough, I fear.

The russians are not good enough, but Yartsev made the problem even bigger with his idiotic subsitutions and tactical changes in the interval and during the 2nd half of the game against Spain, followed by the disarray in the training camp, and finally a tarrible selection of players and tactics against Portugal.

Are you implying Germans and Austrians did other evil things together while the Scandinavians didn't? How does ABBA fit in that picture?


Hey, my mother likes ABBA. :mad:

Hey, my mother likes ABBA. :mad:
Q.e.d. :goodjob:

Still I don't think it will happen, one of the Scandinavians will lose and Italy will go through. It is more likely that they fail against Bulgaria than that they will be the victims of a Nordic conspiracy.I agree.

Each time a team is already eliminated from the competition, people say they will be easy to beat. And actually, each time, that exact same already eliminated team do everything in its possible to win.

The game between Italy and Bulgaria will be hard to win for Italy, there's no doubt about it. Bulgaria doesn't want to come back home with 3 losses and 11 goals conceded with no goal scored.

What's the problem about ABBA ? They've done few good songs. Are you childish 70's disco bashers ? ;)

Of course it's not a group to remember, but they've been less crappy than many other bands. Celine Dion is a shame, ABBA is at worst not deserving a look... but not more.

Q.e.d. :goodjob:

You're coming over the line Racletus! :mad: Watch out how you speak about mum.

What's the problem about ABBA ? They've done few good songs. Are you childish 70's disco bashers ? ;)


Me? Maybe the hun here is. I love 70s disco. :D

Well, maybe not ABBA though...

What's the problem about ABBA ? They've done few good songs. Are you childish 70's disco bashers ? ;)

No, I am a grown up general disco basher.

My brother likes them, though. :ack:

Nice way to question his preferences, until he met his girlfriend because of that. :wallbash:

"I am the dancing queen, young and sweet, only seventeeheeheen" :lol:

Yeah fortunately it is unlikely that everyone will end up level on points and have a situation where Italy may have gone through on goal difference...

Yeah fortunately it is unlikely that everyone will end up level on points and have a situation where Italy may have gone through on goal difference...
What does that have to do with 70s disco?

However, that's how it is, and if they will produce a draw it is more likely that Denmark will have to leave because of it.

What does that have to do with 70s disco?

Sorry for going on topic... :mischief:

Getting back to Italy, I posted yesterday that I'd like to see an italian line-up with Gattuso, Pirlo, Fiore, Del Piero, Cassano and Vieri. Trap chose Perrotta instead of Fiore, and at least in this I have to give it to him. Until he started p****** his pants it worked well, and Perrotta played very well. Porto is trying to sign him, but with him showing himself to the world at this tournament it will be very hard now, with all the wealthy competition.

Deco's departure should bring you a few Euros.

Yes, and Paulo Ferreira already brought 20 Million (it's a pleasure to make business with Mr. Abramovich :D ), but Perrotta will probably prefer to play for Juventus, who probably offer a better salary anyway.
I'd like to see those euros spent on getting Luís Fabiano from São Paulo and Diego from Santos, both the best thing coming out of Brazil at this moment. But São Paulo is asking for way too much money. As for Diego, I don't know how are the negotiations going.

This explains the chances italy has to pass (in italian, from gazzetta.it)

Innanzitutto battere la Bulgaria
Vincere contro la Bulgaria e sperare che da Danimarca-Svezia esca un vincitore. Passano in gran parte da questo incrocio di risultati le speranze azzurre di proseguire il cammino all'Europeo 2004 di calcio. Ma esiste un'altra possibilità: vittoria italiana sui bulgari, parità tra Svezia e Danimarca.
A quel punto tutte e tre le nazioni avrebbero cinque punti in classifica generale, due negli scontri diretti tra loro con differenza reti pari essendo terminate tutte queste gare con un pareggio.
Entrerà allora in vigore il numero delle reti segnate nei tre scontri diretti in questione: si parte da Danimarca 0-0, Italia e Svezia 1-1. Se Svezia e Danimarca pareggiano tra loro 0-0, l'Italia passa, mentre se terminasse 2-2, o con pareggi ancora più ricchi di gol, qualunque sia il punteggio della vittoria italiana, sarebbe inutile.

In caso di vittoria sulla Bulgaria e di pareggio per 1-1 tra Svezia e Danimarca agli azzurri sarebbe sufficiente vincere per 2-0 perché a parità di punti e gol con i danesi, mentre gli svedesi si qualificherebbero direttamente, il nostro coefficiente Uefa è superiore: 2.31 contro il 2.05 della Danimarca.





I only hope Sweden and Denmark don't agree a 2-2 and instead play fairly... :(

If they did agree to a 2-2 draw and this was obvious, would there be any grounds for deducting points or possibly even disqualifying them both so that Italy and Bulgaria go through?

Nope, but I think Denmark-Sweden isn't the most likely ... the home nation always deserves extra attention when looking for signs of corruption ;)

Dutch TV came to the same conclusion: the only way Italy is out right away is a 2-2 draw between Denmark and Sweden. They had Gullit on the program and he said a 2-2 draw is next to impossible to arrange under any circumstances. I'm inclined to believe him.

This explains the chances italy has to pass (in italian, from gazzetta.it)

Innanzitutto battere la Bulgaria
Vincere contro la Bulgaria e sperare che da Danimarca-Svezia esca un vincitore. Passano in gran parte da questo incrocio di risultati le speranze azzurre di proseguire il cammino all'Europeo 2004 di calcio. Ma esiste un'altra possibilità: vittoria italiana sui bulgari, parità tra Svezia e Danimarca.
A quel punto tutte e tre le nazioni avrebbero cinque punti in classifica generale, due negli scontri diretti tra loro con differenza reti pari essendo terminate tutte queste gare con un pareggio.
Entrerà allora in vigore il numero delle reti segnate nei tre scontri diretti in questione: si parte da Danimarca 0-0, Italia e Svezia 1-1. Se Svezia e Danimarca pareggiano tra loro 0-0, l'Italia passa, mentre se terminasse 2-2, o con pareggi ancora più ricchi di gol, qualunque sia il punteggio della vittoria italiana, sarebbe inutile.

In caso di vittoria sulla Bulgaria e di pareggio per 1-1 tra Svezia e Danimarca agli azzurri sarebbe sufficiente vincere per 2-0 perché a parità di punti e gol con i danesi, mentre gli svedesi si qualificherebbero direttamente, il nostro coefficiente Uefa è superiore: 2.31 contro il 2.05 della Danimarca.


I only hope Sweden and Denmark don't agree a 2-2 and instead play fairly... :(

So, the new information is that in case it has to go to the tiebreaker number 6, Italy would go ahead of Denmark because they had better qualifying campaign. The lottery would be fun. :D AFAIK it only happened once in Italy 90, when Ireland and Holland were level on everything.

We well never agree to a certain result. We leave that to the mediterrenean nations. We play fair. Grow up.

I saw the Italian comments, and they are just embarrased and afraid to exit now. Don't try to shift any blame on us. A game vs. Denmark for us i a like a huge derby. Of course we play to win.

Sorry if it seems that we have gone a bit too off topic and seem to be suggesting that we actually think it will happen... Its more a case that it is a silly rule that could easily get exploited by two teams unless it gets changed.

I wouldn't be sursprised if they arranged a 2-2. Worse things have happened.

I would be... It would be a huge blow to football to see two teams play out a specific score line so that they can both go throuh and knockout another team, especially when 2-2 is a reasonably difficult result to get to without any arrangements being seen...

If Italy wins by two goals, they're only out if the infamous 2-2 is the score in the other game, because they have a higher UEFA coeficient than Denmark. I guess not even Sweden and Denmark want such reult to happen, due to the controversy. So Italy has simply to forget the other game and concentrate on doing the job.

One thing we haven't really considered is that it could work out in Italy's favour if Denmark and Sweden only draw 0-0 as then any victory against Bulgaria would be good enough.

If they tie 0-0 or 1-1 Italy go through if they win 2-0 or with more goals.

No, if they tie 0-0, Italy only has to win by 1-0.

If its 1-1 then Italy would have to win by 2 or more goals...

Round-upfor Italy to go through ith Den. and Swe. tie..:

Denmark 0-0 Sweden / Italy 1-0 Bulgaria
............1-1......................2-0
............2-2...................No result

Just so you know, you can stop worrying now. We'll play for a win as usual. We're not in the habit of fixing games, in fact I would be surprised if you could find a single case in any sport through history where Sweden did that.

We do pride ourselves as being better than most other contries when it comes to fair play. Personally I think it's true. When's the last time you saw a Swede spitting on someone for example?

Also, we aren't stupid. We saw what happened against Italy. We were completely outplayed (despite not playing too badly, I thought). I think we had 0 shots on goal actually when Italy decided to "protect" their lead. Had they kept playing like they did most of the game they would've won for sure.

While we won't attack with 6 men if the score is 2-2 @ 15 minutes left, the only time we seriously back down is when we are outplayed and have no other choice (like the semifinals against Brazil in the World Cup -94).

I think we have an excellent chance of beating Denmark. But that's just my opinion of course.

In the 1982 world cup there was a famous case where West Germany and Austria fixed their final result of the group game so that Algeria (who'd beaten West Germany in an earlier match) went out. the players were literally sitting down on the grass enjoying the sunshine.

In order to prevent this happening again it was decided that in future the final group games should happen simultaneously.

However the situation where teams have an incentive to collaborate to achieve a particular result has arisen again. IMHO this has only happened because of the rule that results between the teams take precedence over goal difference. Therefore a return to goal difference as the 1st deciding factor if teams finish level on points, should stop this arising in the future.

Btw I don't believe that either Denmark or Sweden would want to collaborate in the way Austria and West Germany did in 1982.

The lottery would be fun. :D AFAIK it only happened once in Italy 90, when Ireland and Holland were level on everything.
But in that case both teams qualified because it was back in the days when 4 out of 6 third place teams in the WC went through. This is a bit more serious.
btw, Ireland were drawn ahead of Holland, played Romania in the last 16 and got through to the quarters. Holland played the winners of one of the other groups and lost. So it wasn't completely inconsequential.

On topic. I wouldn't be surprised to see Italy fail to win. While they were excellent against Sweden, the equaliser will have damaged them psychologically. I foresee a last minute Bulgarian equaliser to make it 1-1, after Italy playing catanaccio for 80 minutes ;)

In the 1982 world cup there was a famous case where West Germany and Austria fixed their final result of the group game so that Algeria (who'd beaten West Germany in an earlier match) went out. the players were literally sitting down on the grass enjoying the sunshine.

In order to prevent this happening again it was decided that in future the final group games should happen simultaneously.

However the situation where teams have an incentive to collaborate to achieve a particular result has arisen again. IMHO this has only happened because of the rule that results between the teams take precedence over goal difference. Therefore a return to goal difference as the 1st deciding factor if teams finish level on points, should stop this arising in the future.

Btw I don't believe that either Denmark or Sweden would want to collaborate in the way Austria and West Germany did in 1982.

If the score is 2-2 at any point in the game, no one will attack because both teams will go to the quarter finals if they can just keep the score.

If the score is 2-2 at any point in the game, no one will attack because both teams will go to the quarter finals if they can just keep the score.

Its unlikely that a 2-2 scoreline will be reached before the game is nearly over anyway. If its 2-2 for the last 20 minutes both teams might relax a little but then there still has to be some sort of prior agreement otherwise someone might still score...

Its not necessarily prior agreement but both sides realising that if they concede a goal they will go out. In that scenario, neither side will risk attacking with more than one or two players and be content to defend. A game with both sides defending is unlikely to change and from memory thats what happened in the notorious Germany-Austria game. There was no incentive to score and every incentive to prevent the other team scoring.

If the game reaches 2-2 and both sides realise that to concede a goal will put them out, then rest assured 2-2 the final score will be.

It only takes that one player up front to get a little lucky and accidentally score...

So both sides pack their defenses.

There's also the fact that the winners play the second place team in Group D. Luckily Group D won't be decided, so that team could still be Germany, Holland or Latvia.
Still, Denmark will have a slight incentive to attack (to avoid the Czechs in the next round) rather than settle for a draw.

And I suppose there may be some local rivalry ;)

A years worth of bragging rights may be worth going for the win.

Sweden & Denmark both play defensively, like England. I doubt it will be an exciting game to watch.

Nobody finds it fishy that the last game (on the list) in every group, is neighbour vs neighbour ... ?

Sweden & Denmark both play defensively, like England. I doubt it will be an exciting game to watch.
Yup, Sweden, who've scored the best goals in the tournament and have the highest goal difference... :confused:

Nobody finds it fishy that the last game (on the list) in every group, is neighbour vs neighbour ... ?
It's a big Iberian-Francophone-Scandinavian-Sudetenlander conspiracy, I tells ya. :rolleyes:

Anyway, there's no way for the Swiss and French to go through - England's fate is in their hands.

Yup, Sweden, who've scored the best goals in the tournament and have the highest goal difference... :confused:

Perhaps there is a new definition of playing defensively? :confused:

Defensive play is playing on the break: Sitting in your own half with 6+ players behind the ball for most of the game, sucking the oponents in, and then breaking with 2/3 players up front.

Most Scandinavian teams play that way. It's very cautious, and emphasis is on not losing the game - which is a stark contrast to winning the game out right, as demonstrated by Brazil.

Not "as Iberian-Francophone-Scandinavian-Sudetenlander conspiracy", just UEFA seeking to maximise ratings ;)

Well, that's as good a theory as any. Mind you, apart from giving Portugal an easy win in their first game :), the first set of matches in each group saw the highest ranking teams play each other (England-France, Italy-Denmark(!) and Holland-Germany). So maybe there's method in the UEFA madness.

From the Danish point of view they will want to win. Sure they will go through on 2-2, but winning will be the only certain way. Would the Danes with a 2-0 lead allow the Swedes to score two goals? Never! Would the Swedes? No way!

In the inter-Scandinavian bickering the Danes have cast themselves as the free-spirited and easygoing southerners with the brilliant and creative football team. The Swedes, or "the nice Germans" (as we are called when they like us, Sibiria begins on our side of the Sound when they don't), are disciplined, boring herd animals, and beating the Swedish football team is a matter of national pride. And they do have a point. Swedes are happy with whatever kind of cruddy victories we can get, but there is always that little irritating thorn in our football-loving hearts, as we would like the team to play beautifully, and it rarely does.

If one of the Scnadinavian teams was already qualified and a certain result would help the neighbour one *might* have some grounds for speculation. And if they had a prior history of sneaky behavior like that. (It would take a kind of practice neither of these teams has had to agree on a 2-2 result.) As it is, no team can be sure of qualifying unless they win. The Danes will play to win. The Swedes will play not to loose. It might still be a tie. Both teams know each other inside out and might well cancel each other out making this a static match.

The Italians mostly seem to be working on how to fix the blame. (If it's not the socks and shoes, it's a big conspiracy.)

Defensive play is playing on the break: Sitting in your own half with 6+ players behind the ball for most of the game, sucking the oponents in, and then breaking with 2/3 players up front.

That's how everyone plays in modern football, and in this Euro in particular.

Most Scandinavian teams play that way. It's very cautious, and emphasis is on not losing the game - which is a stark contrast to winning the game out right, as demonstrated by Brazil.

As demonstrated by Brazil when? Maybe until 1990. I guess you haven't payed much atention to the recent (not even that recent) developments in Brazil's game.

Furthermore Denmark is probably the most offensive playing team in the competition except for maybe the Czechs, if you take both matches into account.

Well maybe Italy is too busy thinking about Denmark/Sweden, and Loose or draw to Bulgaria, hey it can happend ;)

0-0 Denmark attack - they know that if the score stays that way, they go out.

1-0 to Denmark. Their pressure pays off. Sweden attack. They know that if the score stays that way. They go out. They equalise.

1-1. Denmark once again push forward and get caught on the break. Sweden score.

1-2 Denmark throw payers forward and score.

2-2 Both teams now defend. The score wont change if they play for a week. What incentive is there for either side to risk defeat??

However it is reached and we can construct different sequences, if the game ever reaches 2-2 it stays that way. Equilibrium.

IT WILL END 2-2..

If it really ends 2-2 I'll spend someone an English beer on some meeting I might attend.

Who would you be giving the beer to?

Why that penalty ?? :shakehead :(



Let's go ITALIA !! I'm with you !

I'm sure you can score twice... wait, more than twice, I'm sure you'll score thrice or more ! :)

FORZA ITALIA !!

Why do you support Italy, Marla?

IT WILL END 2-2..


:eek: dramatic night

LMAO !
The Italian papers are gonna be full of conspiracy theorists tommorrow :lol:

O god, just saw the Italian goal. Cassano must be so sad. For some reason i sadistically laughed when his face changed from happy to sad though. Maybe i need to see a counsellor :cry:

Academy award goes to.......Sweden and Denmark [party]

EDIT: For 88 minutes it appeared to be a normal game. But the Danish keeper was too obvious :p I also saw the other match. The Italians have a lot to complain about (no penalty, Bulgaria got one undeserved). But the way they played in this match was patheric...

don't tell me it wasn't fixed...

I don't think you've seen the match Inter ?

:rotfl:

That was funny. I really liked the Swedish passing at the end :lol:

Well sadly I didn't see the Denmark v Sweden game so I'm not going to judge but its probably just an unlucky coincidence... Apparently that was the first time Italy had ever come back from a goal down to win and they are the first team to go out on 5 points... Feel a little sorry for the Italian scorer who thought he had won Italy the game.

Why do you support Italy, Marla?
I get the impression that Marla hates N.Europe :(

Great show! :lol: :lol: :lol: :goodjob:

@Jack: I saw the match and it was very entertaining. But the Danish players really didn't know how to shoot on goal after 2-1.

But don't blame these teams. Blame the stupid rule!!

Cruel so cruel. Especially knowing that the Italian goal was too late when they didnt.

But seeing the goals from the Denmark - Sweden game no chance of the game being rigged. Had they reached 2-2 after 10 minutes then stayed that way, maybe.

To be honest, italy were the third best team on the group.

Well, I saw it too (indeed, great match !) but while the Danish didn't shoot on target, it wasn't for want of trying and they were playing for time , slowing the game down, playing for possession, when they were 2-1 up. Not something you want to do if tyou want he opposition to score.

But don't blame these teams. Blame the stupid rule!!

Hopefully Uefa will change it for the next tournament...

0-0 Denmark attack - they know that if the score stays that way, they go out.

1-0 to Denmark. Their pressure pays off. Sweden attack. They know that if the score stays that way. They go out. They equalise.

1-1. Denmark once again push forward and get caught on the break. Sweden score.

1-2 Denmark throw payers forward and score.

2-2 Both teams now defend. The score wont change if they play for a week. What incentive is there for either side to risk defeat??

However it is reached and we can construct different sequences, if the game ever reaches 2-2 it stays that way. Equilibrium.

:mischief: Ok so I got the last two goals the wrong way round.

:p

@Jack, that's all true. But they knew that that would be too obvious :) Italy can't officially complain now.

Agreed Col.
There was no way Tomasson could have scored that goal just because he decided to. The conspiracy theories are just complete rubbish. No chance.

On the last 90 seconds being 'fixed', well thats obvious. If two teams have a result that will benefit them both, they are not gonna try and ruin it in the last couple of minutes.

You can't say that Italy were only eliminated because of fixed resluts. In truth, i will enjoy the far more attacking styles of Sweden and (especially) Denmark in the coming rounds than the lacklustre, boring performance of Italy.

I guess the spanish are happy. ;)

I can't believe it ! :cry:

And Cassano scored in the additional time ! :cry:

This is so unfair for Italy ! :cry:

Anyway the 2-2 draw wasn't as significant as it could have been since Italy only won by 1 goal so they would have gone out anyway even if goal difference counted over every game.

In truth, i will enjoy the far more attacking styles of Sweden and (especially) Denmark in the coming rounds than the lacklustre, boring performance of Italy.

I agree 100% :)

I don't see how it is unfair for Italy. It wasn't fixed and Italy were the third best team in the group. I mean, in the first half, Bulgaria dominated :wow:

I also watched Sweden-Denmark and have to agree that this way clearly not fixed. It was awfully cruel for Italy but still in a sense of fair sport.

As for the rule, don't forget that Italy would have been out on complete goal difference as well.
So what is left is the late goal. But also don't forget that if that wouldn't have happened an even later goal would have kicked out another team. Which would also have been cruel.

Who would you be giving the beer to?
To be honest I did not at all think it would happen. I don't know, if you're there you can have it. ;)

I was constantly switching channel and trying to catch the most of both games. After Denmark was 2-1 up, I watched a little and then moved to Italy because that's where the action was, so I didn't have a chance to see how were the last minutes of Sweden-Denmark. I did catch Sweden's equaliser last slow motion replay and it seemed some poor defending. The equaliser was of course in the 89th minute or so, when Italy was still a minute away from scoring their goal. Well, beats me, it's true that Italy played crap for most of their three games, but in football, that's not always the point...

Excellent result! :D Now I am eager to read the Italian conspiaricy theories about the 2-2 result.. ;)

Though I can't see how anyone could say the game was arranged and mean it....

Though I can't see how anyone could say the game was arranged and mean it....

Well... :mischief: Only thing is that I don't blame the teams. And they played an excellent match. But that last goal will be discussed a lot in Italy I'm sure.

Excellent result! :D Now I am eager to read the Italian conspiaricy theories about the 2-2 result.. ;)

Though I can't see how anyone could say the game was arranged and mean it....
Completely agree. :)

It was obvious that the teams were very tired in the end of the game; the rain was pouring down all the time...

I think I'm not rushing it if I take this opportunity to wish good luck to Marcello Lippi at the head of the italian national team for the coming years. ;)

Well, I won't cry for Italy. Their overly defensive and boring to hell style play isn't something I will miss in the tournament.

You don't realize how hard it is for Italy because you haven't seen the game.

You haven't seen the ugly fault on Cassano in the penalty area that hasn't been whistled. And worst than everything, you haven't seen Cassano's header... and his joy when he ran to celebrate it with italian substitutes who told him that they've been so courageous during 90 minutes for nothing.

You haven't seen how it has broken his heart... hearing that he fought so fiercely... thinking it was still possible... and realized at the minute of the liberation that it was simply for nothing. You can't imagine how hard it is to learn you've been so brave for nothing. And you can say everything you want but that's unfair. Yes. It is unfair to fight so much and then learn that you could have played poker instead it was the same.

On the other side, I've seen Danes and Swedes who didn't play anymore after the 2-2. What a shame. And there was that danish supporter with a board where was written : "2-2 = Nordic Victory, Ciao Italy"

Don't tell me that danish goalie didn't drop the ball on purpose, the swedish equalizer at 2-2 was due to the poorest defense I've never seen since Desailly letting Prso striking in France-Croatia. :(

I will not update the score tonight.

Yes it was hard for Italy, and heartbreaking. But i wouldn't call it a fixed match.

You say that Denmark and Sweden didn't play after it became 2 - 2. There wasn't much time left, and why would they play when someone could get an injury, a suspension when they were through already.

I mean, give me a break, no two teams in the tournament would go all out for the win when they had nothing to gain, and things to lose.

The 'fixed match' theory is just an excuse by Italian supporters because their team was boring, poor and deserved to go out.

I am happy they have left, they were the third best team in the group.
As i have already said:

In truth, i will enjoy the far more attacking styles of Sweden and (especially) Denmark in the coming rounds than the lacklustre, boring performance of Italy.

Don't tell me that danish goalie didn't drop the ball on purpose, the swedish equalizer at 2-2 was due to the poorest defense I've never seen since Desailly letting Prso striking in France-Croatia. :(
First that wasn't very long ago and second are you suggesting that Desailly let Prso score on purpose? :p
Unfortunately, I haven't seen anything this evening, so i can't judge. From all biased and unbiased info so far, it doesn't seem to be agreed though.

You don't realize how hard it is for Italy because you haven't seen the game.

I admit that it was great drama. But they played terribly. They appeared to be paralized in the 2nd half, when things still appeared possible. They simply didn't deserve to get to the last 8.

And knowing the Italians, the drama won't be over. The press will probably come up with the same kind of stuff as they did 2 years ago. And probably forget about the fact that they should have done better vs Denamrk and Sweden.

I guess the spanish are happy. ;)
Uh, why :confused: ?

By the way, Col & Inter32 should go into professional gambling! :goodjob:

I don't understand how anyone could be happy of that 2-2 score knowing what had been said before.

I will not update the score tonight.
I hope that decision has nothing to do with the result :dubious:

I don't understand how anyone could be happy of that 2-2 score knowing what had been said before.
The Swedish were very happy, because they survived... and the Danes were very happy, because now they don't have to put up with Swedish moping for a whole year.. :)

You have to be happy for the Swedes! [party] :bounce:

... even if they did cheat :rolleyes:

Don't tell me that danish goalie didn't drop the ball on purpose,

That's right, Denmark can't wait to come up against the Czech Republic. :rolleyes:

I respect you for your great mapmaking skills, Marla, but you are a sore loser.

The Swedish were very happy, because they survived...And the one that should be thanked for that is named Thomas Sørensen.

I don't understand how anyone could be happy of that 2-2 score knowing what had been said before.

Would we have liked a 5-0 score? Why, yes we would have.

But we fought as hard as we could on a heavy and rainy pitch against a Denmark that played really well. We had some good chances, hit the goal post among other things but were down 1-2 towards the end.

Then we score a goal that makes us go through to the playoffs.

Why do you think we have no right to be happy about this? I don't think for a second that you would apologize if it had been the other way around.

That's right, Denmark can't wait to come up against the Czech Republic. :rolleyes:
I respect you for your great mapmaking skills, Marla, but you are a sore loser.Calm down, I'm not Italian. It's enough to be a frog before insulting people so easily. If you had seen those image of Antonio Cassano crying after he had just scored the goal of the victory, and right after that supporters from both Sweden and Denmark who requested a 2-2, you can feel a bit bitter for Italy. It's simply being human.

I haven't seen the Denmark Sweden game and I'm sure it's been a beautiful game. The first danish goal was impressive. However, there's still that image from Cassano I can't remove from my head, I'm sorry.

The thing with the second Swedish goal is it came before Italy actually scored so up until then the goal wasn't actually necessary and Denmark surely would have wanted to avoid the Czech republic if they could have...

..., and right after that supporters from both Sweden and Denmark who requested a 2-2, you can feel a bit bitter for Italy. It's simply being human.

I haven't seen the Denmark Sweden game and I'm sure it's been a beautiful game. The first danish goal was impressive. However, there's still that image from Cassano I can't remove from my head, I'm sorry.

With 3 teams on 5 points and only 2 places for advancement, it will always be bitter for the team that doesn't go through. How do you think we had felt if we had lost our place to a goal scored in the 95'th minute?

Sure, some fans wanted 2-2. Can you blame them? I suggest you watch the game before you decide whether it was fixed or not though. I believe you will find it hard to believe afterwards. Sure, it wasn't pretty the very last minute, I'll give you that.

Well Dell, the pressure is coming down. I've given you my impressions and you could understand how hard it could be to celebrate swedish and danish qualifications.

However, both Sweden and Denmark are way better than France. They didn't steal their quarters for sure and I'm sure they'll prove it then. :)

Actually... knowing how France is fragile and how much Sweden and Denmark will want to prove they aren't in quarters at random, we can imagine semi finals with Sweden, Denmark and Greece ! Now that would be a surprise ! :)

You haven't seen how it has broken his heart... hearing that he fought so fiercely... thinking it was still possible... and realized at the minute of the liberation that it was simply for nothing. You can't imagine how hard it is to learn you've been so brave for nothing.
I can. In fact, I don't even "can imagine", I *know*.
I was brave for women, in my past.
And you can say everything you want but that's unfair. Yes. It is unfair to fight so much and then learn that you could have played poker instead it was the same.
Well, they should have fought that hard in the first two matches, then. But no, they prefered to play their boring "what matter is not to win, but not to lose" that polluted football since they started using it. It backfired. Can't say I'm unhappy about it.

If Italy went through, it would have taken the place of either Danemark or Sweden. I don't see why I should be unhappy about Italian fighting and not getting through, and not about Danish/Swedes fighting and not getting through. At least, the scandinavian football is a bit more enjoyable to watch. It's all win.

If you had seen those image of Antonio Cassano crying after he had just scored the goal of the victory, and right after that supporters from both Sweden and Denmark who requested a 2-2, you can feel a bit bitter for Italy. It's simply being human.

I do feel sorry for the Italian people for being so close to moving on to the 1/4, and I also feel sorry for the Bulgarian people that their team didn't even get a single point in the tournament. I know how it feels when my team loses.

That, however, does not mean that the Denmark-Sweden game was rigged.

I didnt saw all the game, but I saw the other two, and the Italia didnt play very well, they have values to do better than that. Or at least Sweden and Denmark played better, so they deserve to pass to the quarter finals.

Italians didnt pass because of themselves, not because of others.

I agree Ryan. :)

Oh yeah! Too bad we didn't beat the Swedes this time either - I don't like that... :hmm:

But so long Italy! :p

Oh yeah! Too bad we didn't beat the Swedes this time either - I don't like that... :hmm:...I like it. :D
Denmark was the better team in this match, we really missed Tobias Linderoth on the mid field.

Uh, why :confused: ?

Well here in venezuela there is somekind of rivalry between italinas and spanish descendants.

I agree Ryan. :)

:lol: my name is not ryan but you must be saying that because in Portuguese raen is more or like said like ryan in English ;)

But I must be dreaming!!! someone agreeing with me :lol: :goodjob: :thanx:

Sorry Raen !!

Sorry Raen !!

no problem ;) I was not angry ;) it was funny :) besides my real name is not raen also ;)

Talking about Group C, I like the denmark team because they played real well, and today in TV talked about their supporters, they drink alot of beer like the English but they dont make what English ppl do, they are peaceful. One more reason to like denmark team and not the english team.

:goodjob:
I was one of many people who hoped that both Sweden and Denmark would advance to the quaterfinals. Twice the joy for me. And I'm sure lots of danes celebrated the Swedish 2-2 score as if it was the danes themselves who scored it. I know I would. :D

The game was clearly not rigged if anyone acctually believe that. It's obvious if you watch the game. Sweden or Denmark would never do such a thing, that's something I've really hard to believe.

Well, congratulations to both Denmark and Sweden, they both deserved it. Italy could have been in the quaterfinals if they had played good enough, but they didn't.

no problem ;) I was not angry ;) it was funny :) besides my real name is not raen also ;)

Talking about Group C, I like the denmark team because they played real well, and today in TV talked about their supporters, they drink alot of beer like the English but they dont make what English ppl do, they are peaceful. One more reason to like denmark team and not the english team.A good Danish team is fine to me... after all, they've eliminated France at last World Cup and it feels always better to think we've lost against a good team than against a bad team.

This being said, I know France sucked at the World Cup and sucked also in their three first games of the Euro. So please, don't remind me that, I'm aware of it.

By the way, the winner of Greece vs France will meet the winner of Czech Republic vs Denmark.

The game was clearly not rigged if anyone acctually believe that. It's obvious if you watch the game. Sweden or Denmark would never do such a thing, that's something I've really hard to believe.It's sure it wasn't rigged, but supporters were hoping it would happen. :)

That's quite interesting by the way. In the Scandinavian derby, supporters of both teams wanted the other to go through... and in the Iberian derby, supporters of both teams wanted to eliminate the other. ;)

I think i´m gonna cancel my vacation in Italy this summer. :D :D

Does anny italian belive it wasn't rigged? :D

To bad for Italy though. Their team would probably do better in the upcomming games than either Denmark or Sweden. Typical italian style to start slowly and just do what it takes to win and no more.

Typical italian style to start slowly and just do what it takes to win and no more.While you can say so on the three games, you definitly can't say the same about tonight's game.

Itally played bad, that's true, but they were very courageous. And Cassano's goal in the extra-time wasn't the one of someone who just want to do what's necessary, it was the goal of ultimate bravery.

:goodjob:
I was one of many people who hoped that both Sweden and Denmark would advance to the quaterfinals. Twice the joy for me. And I'm sure lots of danes celebrated the Swedish 2-2 score as if it was the danes themselves who scored it. I know I would. :D

The game was clearly not rigged if anyone acctually believe that. It's obvious if you watch the game. Sweden or Denmark would never do such a thing, that's something I've really hard to believe.

Well, congratulations to both Denmark and Sweden, they both deserved it. Italy could have been in the quaterfinals if they had played good enough, but they didn't.

Well, actually I was totaly caught up in the game itself, and felt realy bad when the danish victory crumbled in the last minute. It would bee so NICE to beat Sweden just once :D
It took me a while to realize that the score was exactly what both teams needed. It was a very exciting game. All those scary swedish shots at the goal post!! :eek:

In some ways it was a pity to see a great team like Italy fall but they didn't really deserve to get through (after drawing with both Danmark and Sweden). And it was certainly a result, that in the end, both Swedish and Danish wanted.

But for the Danes to get through to the quarters, absolutely fantastic. Knock off the Czech Republic and onto the semis. Fingers crossed, a repeat of 92!