Who would you play against Switzerland?

Maybe some ideas over there:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/cgi-perl/h2cluster2/h2.cgi?thread=%3C1087298468-7736.22%40forum3.mh.bbc.co.uk%3E&find=%3C1087298468-7736.22%40forum3.mh.bbc.co.uk%3E&board=sixosix.euro2004&sort=Te

I would replace Beckham!! :p

I think he's a greedy bugger; I would also love to see more balls being sent across the face of the goal, and none being lobbed into the penalty area diagonally.

There's some really great players in the England team: Owen, Gerrard, Cole, and that young one who's name I keep forgetting... but Beckham-Scholes make a little mini-team within the main team and that is just a liability, though I think Scholes works really hard so I won't complain about him.

Another thing about England as a team, is the lack of body language: They don't really disclose what they are going to do so they lack a left-right attack, and strikers cannot sprint away from their markers in anticipation of the next ball ... :(

When you go 1-0 up, it's a sign that you can score... so do it again! Go 2-0 up... and then again, like Brazil.

England don't play that way. They go 1-0 up, and then camp in their own penatly area. It's the same every year and against every oponent! I blaim it on the captain. Does Beckham ever lead a break? :dubious:

So, I would make changes to midfield, to make sure they don't turn lazy when they are winning.

I would play Wayne Bridge on the left ahead of Coles. Scholes and Lampard in the middle. Gerrard on the right. I think Becks has been out of form for a while and deserves to be dropped.

More worrying is the form of Michael Owen.

I dont mind playing to hit the other team on the break once they get 1-0 up. All of these players have experience of big European games and that is how the top teams play. It is necessary though to take the chances when they come. Rooney did brilliantly on the break. Becks hit a pretty poor pen. If that had gone in, it would have been game over. Scholes would be a better choice to take them in future.

It was Beckham's corner, wasn't it?

When will you English learn about football? Beckham is the only one that would be in the Dutch team, if we could choose any Englishman!

Well, that is a bit overdoen, (you do have a few 1st class defenders) but I am really puzzled by the lack of trust in Becks. Yet this Gerrard dude, hardly known around the world outside Britain, is supposed to be so great. Well, I have seen the England-France game, and I can tell you that Gerrard wasn't that good. This is not only based on his terrible mistake in the 93rd minute.

I do realise that he can't be judged on one game. For instance, Edgar Davids is a world class midfileder, but judge on yesterday's Holland-Germany game, he is an avergae player at best.

What I would do:
1. Tell Roy Keane he is English. He must have an Engish great grandmother...

Furthermore, the defense is ok: Campbell was good as expected, King was impressive!
Cole is ok, Neville is ok, though I think overrated.

England has a superb striker duo in Rooney and Owen. I think a player like Owen shoudl simply stay in the team. Great striker do not need to be in the game, or whatsoever. Ruud van N. showed so yesterday. Don't doubt Owen! Simple as that.

England's midfield is troublesome. As I said, I hardly have seen any Liverpool games, so can't judge over Gerrard. If he usually is better, let him stay in. Lampard is fine. Beckham is top. IMHO, the only thing to be changed is Scholes. I guess by Hargreaves.

Gerrard Lampard and Scholes have the best three English midfield players in the Premiership this season.

Gerrard has been awesome for Liverpool this season almost single handedly keeping them near the top. He combines well with Owen. Like Viera at his best in running Box to box. Great tackler and defensive midfielder. Good passing, powerful shot. He was great against Germany in the 5-1 win but then was injured and missed all the last World Cup. Tipped as the replacment for Keane at ManU. ;) Quiet game against France but very effective defensively covering the back four.

Scholes is the most creative midfielder in the team. Brilliant at short angled passes and is the best finisher in the team - either foot or in the air. He has scored lots of great goals for ManU this year but hasnt scored for England for three years - mainly becuase he gets played out of position on the left. He plays in the centre for ManU where his influence is strongest.Regarded as the one player ManU would never sell and always first name on the team sheet. Tends to be a rash tackler and gives away too many free kicks and gets booked a lot. Unthinkable to drop him if he is fit.

Lampard. Been a real revelation for Chelsea. Was expected to be kept out of their team but Chelsea found he was their star. Brilliant at getting forward and supporting the strikers. Complete player who has forced his way into the national team by the shear consistency of his play. Headed goal against France typical.

Bridge. Again outstanding for Chelsea this season. Left footed. Good going forward and his defense hs improved hugely. I think he and Coles could play together very well down England s left flank rotating in attack and defense. Only ever picked together once.

Beckham. Has had a poor end to the season at Real. He doesnt seem to be the attacking player that he was at ManU and doesnt get up and down the line so much. His strength is in his crossing ability and his freekicks. He has been Englands weak link in midfield in the last couple of games. His confidence is low.

No - IF anyone should be dropped its Becks but I'd expect England to play an unchanged side if they can. That team played pretty well against possibly the best side in the world.

When will you English learn about football?

When Linniker steps forward as manager ;)

This article looks as England's history and repetitive theme...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/euro_2004/england/3808127.stm

..I have seen the England-France game, and I can tell you that Gerrard wasn't that good. This is not only based on his terrible mistake in the 93rd minute.

The error was due to lack of team communication, and lack of preparation. I already mentioned the communication problems.

Gerrard is very good when the team is attacking. You didn't get to see that at all vs. France :(

Furthermore, the defense is ok: Campbell was good as expected, King was impressive!
Cole is ok, Neville is ok, though I think overrated.


Cole is great, and I think that because he often starts the attacks. Cole will run at midfielders to start a break, while Beckham is just standing and holding himself.

I don't consider Neville to be as good, but he is decent and again, he did push forward and overtake a certain, lazy, greedy individual :p

England has a superb striker duo in Rooney and Owen.

Absolutely. They need a third, imo. Vassal - Owen - Rooney up front.

I think that would be really strong, for example ... Rooney crossing to Owen/Vassal... and Vassal crossing to Owen/Rooney.

... the only thing to be changed is Scholes. I guess by Hargreaves.
The problem I have with that is Scholes works really hard. It's terrible when he shoots at the goal... or the moon... the difference is accademic... but Scholes is holding is own, and doing more than half of Beckham's job :(

I think England was doing ok vs France, but the goalkeeper messed up the game. I'd rather bet my money on old Seaman...

Ah, I agree on Rooney - he was really great!

I'd say: let Beckham stay. His freekicks and corners alone are worth it.

I do agree Scholes is a creative midfielder, but I don't think he is good enough. Bring up Bridge!
I did see quite some Man U games, and don't share Col's conclusion on Scholes. He wasn't that good in the game vs France, was he?

How about giving leadership to someone else, not Beckham. Maybe he can't make himself work hard... and needs someone else to give him orders? :p

come on, Beckham is a class player, stop being so stereotypically english and knocking the good things we've got

What I was thinking. Beckham is the best England has.

come on, Beckham is a class player, stop being so stereotypically english and knocking the good things we've got

but he hasnt been playing well latley for Real or England why play a player whos not doing well because of their name

i would say let Scholes play behind Rooney inplace of Owen who was nonexistance against france then have a centeral midfield of Gerrard and Lampard put J.cole on the left wing and Dyer on the right make Sol Camabell captin not sure about keeping King as he did so well against france but with Terry we have more of the CL experience .

If anyone should be dropped it should be Owen... I think it would be a mistake to drop Beckham after just one game considering that he is meant to be the team's captain and of course if he had scored the penalty, yet France had somehow still won we probably wouldn't be complaining about Beckham any more...

hmmm, it was his free-kick for the goal, anyway i just think, 12 inches to the left with the penalty and we would be calling him a national hero, it's a fine line. i would play him for his attitude alone, he'll come up with the goods imo

James

Bridge
Campbell
King
Neville

Gerrard
Scholes
Lampard
Beckham

Owen
Rooney

I think Krusty the Clown or Pickles the (now dead) cup-finding dog would be a better bet than James for the goalkeeper's spot. Or maybe Klinsmann - at least he would have thought of diving head & hands first, rather than flying into Henry feet first.

While I don't suppose Sven put any of them in his squad, you are allowed to bring in additional squad members for injured goalkeepers. So perhaps if someone told Rooney that James had stolen his da's car, then there might be a way...

Who would you have then? The other two played for the teams with the worst goal difference in last years Premiership. :p

I wouldn't necessarily drop Beckham. Though he of course is the most overrated player ever and no way world class (except as a pop star) I don't think England has someone really much better on that position.

Neville
Campbell
King
Cole

Gerrard
Scholes
Lampard

Rooney
Owen
Vassal

---

King & Campbell can be relied on to make a solid defense, with Cole and Neville pushing into mid-field and supplying balls.

Gerrard and Lampard have loads of skill to supply the forwards. Scholes is prefect in centre and able to invent attacks.

Rooney crossing to Vassal, and visa-versa, with Owen picking off balls in the middle. The build-up; control; and penetration would crush most oponents... and no Beckham!! :D

I would keep Beckham as a substitute midfielder... make him work for his place in the team :p

My team would be as follows:

GK Robinson
RB Neville
LB Cole
CB Terry
CB Campbell
RM Beckham
LM Dyer
CM Lampard
CM Gerrard
CF Owen
CF Rooney

4-4-2 formation. Scholes hasn't done anything for years, certainly not for England, and doesn't deserve to wear the jersey. Plus Dyer will add some much needed pace and a counter-attacking option.

I think England's two world class players are Gerrard and Lampard. They have to be in the team. As a result of that, I don't think there's a place for Scholes - he needs to be dropped. In place of him should be Hargreaves.

Terry will replace King in defence, and the rest of the defence is fine. In attack, England isn't so strong. Face it: Rooney has yet to put together a good scoring run in his career, while Owen is really struggling - I think there are far better than him in the tournament anyway. Other options though, are Heskey and Vassell, who really aren't up to much.

Oh, and Beckham? Anybody who says he is world class is either pissed or does not know what he is talking about.

GK James

RB Neville
LB Bridge
CB Terry
CB Campbell

RM Beckham
LM Gerrard
CM Lampard
CM Scholes

CF Vassall
CF Rooney

Can't see the sense in dropping James after one match itn the hope that Robinson will suddenly become an immediate success. Beckham has to still play since he is still the captain and it would probably do more harm than good to drop him. Bridge should get his chance to impress and Terry should be in the team as King did well but he was only in the team because Terry was injured. Finally it might be an idea to not start with Owen and see whether he can do more coming off the bench in the second half.

Oh, and Beckham? Anybody who says he is world class is either pissed or does not know what he is talking about.
Name me a better crosser of the ball than Beckham.

Name me a better crosser of the ball than Beckham.
There's more to being a world class player than being able to play a good cross occasionally and frequently having a new haircut.

Oh and Gronkjaer. And that guy who played for Hungary two weeks ago. And...

Name me a better crosser of the ball than Beckham.

Just to clarify: Are you telling me David Beckham is a world class player?

While I wait your response, I shall take the time to repeatedly type the :lol: smilie, just in case of a positive response. ;)

Seriously though, don't you watch the matches? Read the papers? I actually don't recally many actually claiming he's world class aside from his PR team...

Anyway, I await your answer.

Name me a better crosser of the ball than Beckham.
Beckham is never in a possition to cross the ball. He may occationally lob it over defenders, but it has to go across the face of the goal to be a good cross.

He passes to Scholes, and asks for it back. It's a case of keeping the ball (and cammera) as close to himself for as much of the 90 minutes as possible...

Oh and Gronkjaer. And that guy who played for Hungary two weeks ago. And...
Gronkjaer couldn't cross his way out of a noughts and crosses game.
Originally posted by phoenix_night
Just to clarify: Are you telling me David Beckham is a world class player?

He plays for Real Madrid, doesn't he? Actually make that he plays for Real Madrid in a position other than defence, doesn't he?
Originally posted by phoenix_night
Seriously though, don't you watch the matches? Read the papers? I actually don't recally many actually claiming he's world class aside from his PR team...

PR doesn't create talent. Just look at his wife.

PR doesn't create talent. Just look at his wife.
Which is the point.

He plays for Real Madrid, doesn't he? Actually make that he plays for Real Madrid in a position other than defence, doesn't he?

:lol: I hope you're not serious!


PR doesn't create talent. Just look at his wife.

Exactly.

I'll post further on this topic tomorrow, if I have to...this whole Beckham thing is really quite frastrating. And crazy. :crazyeye:

My point was that Beckham needed talent to reach the level that PR can take advantage of. This ain't pop music. You can't create a footballer. They have to be able to play to be taken notice of. Beckham has proved he can play over his career. Those who doubt his talent now does so because he has had a few bad games. That is slightly fickle in my opinion. Every player, no matter how good, goes through a bad patch.

My point was that Beckham needed talent to reach the level that PR can take advantage of.
No he needed to marry a Spice Girl. That was all. Of course he is no totally incapable footballer but he's not more than mediocre.

His goal against Wimbledon from the halfway-line did much more to bring him to the public's attention than marrying Posh.

His goal against Wimbledon from the halfway-line did much more to bring him to the public's attention than marrying Posh.
I bet all those people who have no idea that Wimbledon is present in sports other than tennis would disagree...

I bet all those people who have no idea that Wimbledon is present in sports other than tennis would disagree...
I imagine their bulters would have told them.

I think England's two world class players are Gerrard and Lampard.
........
Oh, and Beckham? Anybody who says he is world class is either pissed or does not know what he is talking about.

Beckham certainly generates opinions more strongly polarised than your average jar of Marmite, doesn't he ?

Phoenix, what's your definition of world class in this context ? Personally, I wouldn't argue that Beckham was one of the best 11 players in the world, (though I'd accept MrPresident's suggestion that he as good a crosser of the ball as there is currently). But I guess that can't be your definition of world class as I can't imagine that you're suggesting Gerrard and Lampard would fit into a World XI.

I find it difficult to conceive of Lampard being world class (frankly, I thought both he and Gerrard went AWOL in the 2nd half of Sunday's game - and that Beckham didn't...), but it would be interesting to hear your definition.

World class: Someone who... (1) has too much skill, and (2) sticks to his position, and (3) plays for the team instead of himself.

We don't know if Beckham has criteria 1. You say he does, I say he doesn't. The occational fluke doesn't mean jack. I can score from the half way line once in every one hundred attempts aswell!

Beckham does keep his position, assuming he has never in his carreer been instructed to mark someone.

Beckham never passes to someone who can score, and taking penatlies instead of letting a striker do it completely rules him out. I think he utterly fails the last test, making him less than world class, and making the first two criteria accademic :)

[QUOTE=col]Gerrard Lampard and Scholes have the best three English midfield players in the Premiership this season.

Gerrard has been awesome for Liverpool this season almost single handedly keeping them near the top. He combines well with Owen. Like Viera at his best in running Box to box. Great tackler and defensive midfielder. Good passing, powerful shot. He was great against Germany in the 5-1 win but then was injured and missed all the last World Cup. Tipped as the replacment for Keane at ManU. ;) Quiet game against France but very effective defensively covering the back four.

Scholes is the most creative midfielder in the team. Brilliant at short angled passes and is the best finisher in the team - either foot or in the air. He has scored lots of great goals for ManU this year but hasnt scored for England for three years - mainly becuase he gets played out of position on the left. He plays in the centre for ManU where his influence is strongest.Regarded as the one player ManU would never sell and always first name on the team sheet. Tends to be a rash tackler and gives away too many free kicks and gets booked a lot. Unthinkable to drop him if he is fit.

Bridge. Again outstanding for Chelsea this season. Left footed. Good going forward and his defense hs improved hugely. I think he and Coles could play together very well down England s left flank rotating in attack and defense. Only ever picked together once.

=============

I agree with most of what you said Col, If you dont mind me being Scottish and cheering on Switzerland , thou Beckham has to start.

For me Englands problem is the left pity your manager didn't have faith in Celtic's English star Alan Thompson, he would have certainly have done a good job for you guys.

Gerrard and Scholes both should both start but for me Scholes should be in the middle he's wasted on the left, which would mean dropping Lampard (hard call) but whats wrong with Dyer?

my team for what its worth :-)

GK James
RB Neville
LB Cole
CBTerry
CB Campbell
RM Beckham
LM Dyer
CM Scholes
CM Gerrard
CF Owen
CF Rooney

Beckham never passes to someone who can score, and taking penatlies instead of letting a striker do it completely rules him out. I think he utterly fails the last test, making him less than world class, and making the first two criteria accademic :)

==


Hasn't King Becks got a good strike rate with English penalties??, and dont many teams Midfielders take penalties, just ask the French!!

England's world class player: Campbell. Who should also be captain - no-one's going to argue with Sol.
Beckham has plenty of energy and enthusiasm, but isn't so cool under pressure. He's a great dead ball kicker, unless it's on the penalty spot - maybe he needs to practise more.
Anyway, there's too much of this 'too good to leave out' - that argument doesn't apply if you play someone out of position. I reckon a good English team would be Scholes in the hole, with Hargreaves and Beckham on the flanks and one of Gerrard/Lampard. That means leaving hte other one out, but there's only so many places on the team. Trying to accomodate every player that's too good to leave out results in an unbalanced team

Hasn't King Becks got a good strike rate with English penalties??, and dont many teams Midfielders take penalties, just ask the French!!
So what? Midfielders may be good, but Strikers are even better.

Besides, I have never seen Beckham take a great penalty. I have seen numerous strikers put the ball in the top corner with insane accuracy, but Beckham just blasts it.

The one he missed against France is typical for a Beckham penalty. Those same shots normally go in, but a good striker can be counted on to elliminate the "normally".

World class:

....taking penatlies instead of letting a striker do it completely rules him out.

By this "logic", Zidane is not world class. Hmmm..... :mischief:



Beckham never passes to someone who can score


I wonder how Lampard managed to score on Sunday then....? :crazyeye:

Look, I'm not arguing that Beckham is world class, but there seems to be so much anger &/or enmity that logic and rational assessment of the player's worth have flown out of the window.

So what? Midfielders may be good, but Strikers are even better.
==


What ! it doesn't matter what position you play man, if your good at taking
penalties then you should take them, same with Free-kicks theres many good strikers that are average at both.

By this "logic", Zidane is not world class. Hmmm..... :mischief:

Henry is a much more likely contender for top goalscorer of the tournament than Zidan; so in the interest of the team record, Henry should have taken the penalty.

I wonder how Lampard managed to score on Sunday then....? :crazyeye:
That was a free kick, Beckham didn't have the choice of just holding possession and the cammera's attention. Besides, for all we know he was aiming at the goal :mischief:

Henry is a much more likely contender for top goalscorer of the tournament than Zidan; so in the interest of the team record, Henry should have taken the penalty.


Eh ? I can only guess that you're trolling now...

What ! it doesn't matter what position you play man....
Sure it does! Strikers have loads of experience at short balls past keepers. Beckham could never put the ball cleanly in the top corner... I don't think he has ever tried to do so in a match.

Remember back in the year of Shearer, English penalties taken by the strikers were all carbon coppies... all straight into the top corner giving the keeper absolutely no chance. That's what you can expect from a world class striker.

Beckham aims for the middle of the wide space between post of goaly, and blasts it as hard as he can. It's a decent solution, but it's not fail safe.

Eh ? I can only guess that you're trolling now...
What? Are you telling me you expect Zidan to score more frequently (excluding pens) than Henry? :confused:

Who cares about the top goalscorer? What matters is that the penalty is converted.

Henry is a much more likely contender for top goalscorer of the tournament than Zidan; so in the interest of the team record, Henry should have taken the penalty.
I'll rise to the bait...
Idiocy like that is what loses tournaments. Henry has a history of bottling penalties, although he's been better of late. ZZ is obviously ice cool.
The Swedes didn't try to up an individual's goal tally by letting Larson take their peno - they stuck with the plan and upped the team's goal difference. :goodjob:
Since I've drawn Sweden at work, I'm very happy with this Scandinavian efficiency.

[QUOTE=stormbind]

Sure it does! Strikers have loads of experience at short balls past keepers. Beckham could never put the ball cleanly in the top corner... I don't think he has ever tried to do so in a match.


==


Sorry SB, but your either to young or dont go to many matches Penalties can come down to confidence as well as ability, and good takers do not need to be Strikers .

Anyway didn't Beckham score five from five at the Start of his England career?

Well, it's not 5/5 any more:lol:
Shearer, LeTissier - that's the kind of consistency you want taking penalties. Anyone know what ZZ's stats are?

bholed,

Confidence shouldn't be a real issue for professionals, that's what seperates them from the riff raff :p

"Consistency is Victory" -- valuable philosophy.

A player is only as good as his worst form. Playing someone who flips between good/bad is a gamble, and not likely to get a team through an entire championship.