This is the thread for my own SG discussion. Unless otherwise specified, these will be the base rules of all my games.

Golden rule: Reputation is gold. Never purposely break any per-turn deal, peace treaty, military alliance or MPP before it expires. If you break our rep by mistake, I reserve the right to ask for a replay.

Note 1: it is OK to break an ongoing deal in which only AI is paying per-turn good to us.
Note 2: we can break RoP (by declaring war) as long as we do not take advantage of it (see below banned tactic 1), given that we do not break other per-turn deals or treaties.
Note 3: it is not our fault if our only trade route to AI is cut by someone else, but the game will still think our reputation is trashed. Try to avoid this situation as much as possible. Unsafe trade is highly discouraged.

The following tactics are forbidden:
1. RoP rape. We cannot declare war on AI if we have any units (including boats) inside AI territory. Note, this rule holds no matter we have RoP with AI or not.
2. RoP abuse. If you have RoP with AI, you cannot abuse it by intentionally messing up AI territory with worker actions, standing on AI resources to deny its access, etc. It is OK to build a road to an AI resource so we can trade for it. Be reasonable.
3. Negative science exploit. No matter how huge a deficit you run, the game will only disband a building and/or a worker if the gold goes negative in the interturn.
4. Ship chaining exploit. No loading/unloading in a chain of ships to gain virtually unlimited movement.
5. Free palace jump. Adandon capital so it could jump to the next biggest city.
6. Scientific Double Slingshot. With a scientific civ, when you research the last tech in an era, you could use "Big Picture" to go to the diplomatic screen and buy the techs that other AIs already have to get a free tech that is not known by others. This is forbidden.

Utilities and Trainer Programs:
You are allowed to use mapstat for culture, pollution, happiness and trade only. You are not allowed to use the flip or combat calculators. No utilities that provide spoiler information are allowed. If unclear, ask me.

Let's start simple. I reserve the right to add more items.

I have a few ideas, so I list them below. Any one gets enough signup will get started. I will try to keep at most two SGs in parallel so others would have to wait. You can still sign up early (and are encouraged to do so), and I'll reserve the slot for you. When I actually start the game, you need to confirm you still can play.

Except specified otherwise, all games will be C3C 1.22 based standard map.

24-hour for "got it", 48-hour after that to finish. I'll be pretty strict about it, but you can request reasonable extension.

1. Lightning Chinese Riders (EDIT: won as Mic2)

In this game we'll be playing as Chinese, emphasizing the 3-move UU we have. The variant rules are:
* We cannot attack cities within that AI's territory. This means slow units cannot be used for attacking cities. I am also considering various limitations on slow units, such as limiting them within our own territory, or not allowing them at all. Up to debate.
* We have to accept peace as soon as AI is willing to offer to pay us. This means we have to take as many cities as possible at the beginning of the war. A lightening profitable war is the idea.
* Victory is Domination.
This will be on emperor pangea. It emphasizes middle ages war and we'll need combat settlers a lot I would assume.

The final rules haven't been sorted out yet. I'm willing to discuss more restrictions. Innovative ideas that fit the theme are very welcome. :)

Roster:
Aggie and grs expressed interest before, but need confirmation.

- microbe
- Aggie
- grs (to be confirmed)
- gozpel
- grahamiam
- Gogf


2. Self-research
Contrary to MIC1 no research, we'll be playing a game that emphasizes self-research and respects science. The idea was from a game report from Charis sometime last year I read about. The variant rules are:
* We cannot buy techs by gold or resource
* We can get techs by exchanging our own techs with AI
* We can sell our own techs for gold or resources
* We can extort techs through war
* We can get techs through wonders (GL or ToE)
* We cannot steal techs

In one word, if in a trade the AI puts any techs in left column, we can only have techs in right column.

I don't know if this is possible for demigod. I'm thinking emperor. If we get a good team, I may even think about doing all self-research (no getting techs from AI at all).

We'll be playing a scientific civ. Continent or archipelago map.

- microbe
- open
- open
- open
- open

3. OCC Space Race at Emperor
We've done it at Monarch, and it's time to raise the difficulty level. I can say it's doable as I've done it, but of course quite difficult. I prefer the players have previous experience with OCC Space Race game (if not, you can try one yourself, it's a lot of fun). It requires quite different strategy than other OCCs, mainly to avoid culture win.

We'll be playing a scientific civ, but this time not Byzantines. I'm thinking Babylon?

Map will probably be archipelago with 80% water.

- microbe
- Kiech
- open
- open
- open

I'll start the game that gets 4-5 players sign-up first.

4. The Wonder Expansion EDIT: started as Mic3 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=94717).

The variant rule is that at end of turn, the number of cities other than capital cannot exceed number of great wonders we built. Small wonders don't count.

This will be on emperor. It is easier than OCC. In fact, I think we'll start as OCC. Preferred win is 20K.

As I want to discourage wars, so captured wonders don't count either.

- microbe
- Kiech
- open
- open
- open

5. The Cultural Expansion

This is similar to 4, but not limited to wonders. Every 100 culture point can sponsor a city. Something like that.

To make it different from 4, I'm thinking conquest as the preferred win, and Japan would be the perfect civ for that purpose (religious and militaristic).

- gozpel will start it :)
- microbe
- open
- open
- open

====================================

No replies yet, but I am not in a hurry anyway. :)

Sign me up for No.1, please :) Riders!

And 5, I like the 100 cp idea.

No.5 seem to be quite quick, when it comes to turnsets (not many cities to manage) and don't be so greedy, let me start number 5 :)

Welcome. 100 is just a random number. We can decide what the best number would be.

I'll let you start. :)

However, we most likely will start the riders game first. I'm PM Aggie/grs if they still want to play. If so I'll start it tonight.

On no. 1, how can you attack with a fast unit if the city is still in enemy territory? Do you mean with units in enemy territory?

I would like to sign up for it, I think.

i'll join #1 :) if you got the space

OK, I confirm interest in the rider game :)

Good. I was thinking 100 per city for the first 5 cities or something, then 500cp for the next 5 and climbing after that? That will keep the expansion down.

I almost signed up for all, but I have to be realistic :) But they are great ideas.

i'll join #1 :) if you got the space

Grahamiam is probably more deserving of the space than I am, and posted just a second after me.

So the riders team is complete! Actually we've got one more. 6 player is probably not too many? I still need grs to confirm but I'll start the thread now, and we can finalize the discussion/rules there.

@Gogf: you are right. Our units have to be outside of the AI's territory when we attack. EDIT: please make up your mind if you want to play. I'm OK with 6 players as this will be a warring game.

@gozpel: I know! I have to refrain myself from starting them all at once too! :lol: Don't worry, as I said I'll at most start two games in parallel, so you'll have chance to join all of them.

MIC2 - Lightning Chineses Riders (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=91442) thread started. We need some discussion about the rules there.

I definately do want to play. I was just saying that if you only wanted five players (thank God you don't ;)), that Grahamiam is more deserving of the slot than I am.

Sign me up for the OCC, please!

Edit: Heh, may as well sign up for the #4 as well, if thats ok. :)

Kiech: welcome.

Since I've started the Rider game, and have MIC1 going as well, all other games would have to wait. But I may take exception for the OCC. So if enough people sign up for the OCC I'll consider starting it.

for game #5, what is the goal? if it's a cultural win, ill sign up. i need some culture :)

The goal is just cultural expansion. :)

I don't want to make it too similar to the wonder expansion game, so I'll allow all conditions (even diplo).

The goal is just cultural expansion. :)
I don't want to make it too similar to the wonder expansion game, so I'll allow all conditions (even diplo).
how about a 100k goal? slow expansion does make this more difficult, especially if we step it like the 100cp/5cities, 250cp/ for 5 more, 500cp/ for 5 more cities/750cp for 5 more, etc.

100K is impossible IMO. And I don't want a 20K game again.

How about Conquest as preferred, and Space as back up? :)

That would be a religious and militaristic civ, like Japan?

100K is impossible IMO. And I don't want a 20K game again.

How about Conquest as preferred, and Space as back up? :)

That would be a religious and militaristic civ, like Japan?
no, i didn't want a 20k game, not really interested in that either and OCC's i can do without (sorry, i know you like those :) ). but i was thinking that 100k would be possible with a civ like Babylon (sci and religous). lots of cheap culture buildings being rushed desperately...

conquest would be ok but would just take a little longer with the slow growth. space kinda the same, though if we played it at least emporer, it could be quite a race... demigod would be even more desperate :)

Ideas keep coming, so here is my fourth idea:

4. The Wonder Expansion

This will be on emperor. It is easier than OCC. In fact, I think we'll start as OCC. I would not encourage too many wars as I want it to be mainly a peaceful game. Preferred win is 20K. [ for this reason, I may change the rule to not allowing capturing wonder cities or captured wonders do not increase city limit. To be decided. ]

How about this: you may only capture cities with wonders. Regardless of the number of wonders in a captured city, they only count as one wonder. You may only atempt to capture a wonder city if your current limit allows you to do so.

Eg: You have 3 wonders and 2 cities, with a city limit of 4. We capture a city with 2 wonders. Our new limit is 5 cities, not 6.
Or: You have 3 wonders and 4 cities. You must abandon 1 city or complete a wonder before capturing a wonder city.

Heh, assuming we build ALL of the wonders, or at least our captured cities provide maximum # of cities, we can get 29 max cities...depending on where the AI finishes its wonders.

Edit: Afterthought: Allowing 'respawn AI' would make this game quite difficult.

At this point I only want one of the following:
1. # of cities other than capital cannot exceed # of wonders we control
2. # of cities other than capital cannot exceed # of wonders we built

Counting multiple captured wonders as one, IMO, is a bit inconsistent.

Since right now I want a 20K win for it, I think 2 is more appropriate as that emphasizes building instead of conquest.

If instead Conquest is a goal, then 1 might be better. But that would probably be the goal of the Cultural Expansion game, not this one.

Then I would choose #2, to make it a bit harder.

Mic2 has been won. [party]

Since I'm currently in 7 SGs, I don't feel in a hurry to start another one, but No. 3 and 4 are OCC or semi-OCC, so I can start one of them if enough people sign up.

I am not in any particular hurry to start. 7 sg's? Wow.

Mic1 is won. I'm going to start a new game this week. I want to try the Wonder Expansion game at emperor or demigod (it will be a semi-OCC, but easier).

Mic3 - Wonder Expansion (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=94717) is started.

I will be on vacation from 08/25 - 09/01.

After that I plan to start a new game. Currently I'm thinking of the Culture Conquest as Sumeria, or the variant below which has been in my mind for quite a while:

The Special Weapons

As Vikings/deity/standard archipelago

Rules:
1. We have to research or trade for Map Making, Navigation, Amphibious War and Advanced Flight at the first oppertunity. Building Great Lighthouse or Magellon's would be a bonus.
2. We can only attack coastal cities from sea.
3. After Advanced Flight (or make it even harder, remove this clause), we can only attack inland cities by means of paratroopers.

I may be interested in the wonder expansion game, if you could explain it a bit further. 100 culture in the capital? Total? 100 sounds high at the start, but may be low later!?

I am in no hurry though - starting somewhere in september seems nice to me, because at least 2 or 3 games I currently play will be finished then.

I like the sound of the "Special Weapons".

Pencil me in for a "probably", though it will depend on how much I've got on my plate when it gets going. :)

If you are interested in the Special Weapons SG, I would recommend you play Epic 43: Ports Your Goal (http://www.realmsbeyond.net/civ/epic43.html). The game forum and announcement thread is here (http://www.lurkerlounge.com/realmsbeyond/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=4&t=138&). It's a fun game, and has some similarities with my SG (especially paratroopers - how many people actually used it?). Just remember not to post spoiler information before the close date.

I've been quite inactive for a while after vacation, so here is Mic4 - AWM (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=100065). Want to gain some AW experience and eventually move up the difficulty in this area.

I wonder when all my ideas can be implemented?

With the USA election due in a couple of weeks, time for a fun deity game. :) Mic5 - The Butt Kisser (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=102102) is started. Sign up in a hurry!

I'll join your self-research, if you're still looking for players. You probably need to send me a message at game start, if time for first sign up is any indication...

Thanks for the interest. That will probably be a while. I just have too many good ideas. :)

I do notice you are a newcomer. Are you familiar with SGs? Maybe you could introduce yourself a bit. :)

I'm playing civ since the DOS era. But I've only played a few games of Civ3 & PTW (got C3C but no game yet). However, Emperor is no problem, but I got busted in Deity. This is probably because I didn't knew of the extra starting units and refused demands - bad idea. I want to increase the difficulty level, but when I play for a while I get lazy. So I'm looking for SG's, for 10 turns I can play on peak efficency :)

I have no expirence in SG, but I followed some in the last couple of month. Couldn't join one, all games that I'm interested in are full in no time.

OK I take the time to write down my own rules, which I copied mostly from LK rules. :) Unless otherwise specified, these will be the base rules of all my games.

Edit: I moved the rules to the first post.

Amen to that! Especially No4! And 3! Yeah, 2 and 1 as well.

You capped it well, mate. I hate doing stuff that the AI wouldn't do ever.

ROP is kinda a different issue after all, I've been ROP-raped in a few games by the AI.
Mainly it was because they signed a treaty against us at that moment.

But it doesn't say we are/should be allowed to do it anyways.

Hey, think more about the rep rule.

If you trade with someone off your landarea and harbors won't help to keep up a current trade, then you ask someone to leave your territory, anmd they declare.

It will hit your rep, just as the random spearman pillaging a road in an unknown area.

I think rep should be kept as far as it goes, but if someone/civ is the only way for trades and you demand them to leave, rightfully it isn't "your fault" Live with the rep hit after that.

I've tried a few games to see how the AI really acts. Sometimes it seems they continue normal deals, even after the cut roads and also for a long time. Other times I'm shot. There must be some way to figure out the calcula for this.

As I see it, can an AI benefit enough from us, they can give gpt and gold for a trade. This is for one offense. A second offense simply kills all opportunties.

Actually, I added a separate item for RoP rape. RoP deal has nothing to do with that and I'm actually fine with breaking RoP deal.

I moved the rules to the first post by the way.

Sometimes it seems they continue normal deals, even after the cut roads and also for a long time.

When the roads are connected again, that means.

Hey, think more about the rep rule.

If you trade with someone off your landarea and harbors won't help to keep up a current trade, then you ask someone to leave your territory, anmd they declare.

It will hit your rep, just as the random spearman pillaging a road in an unknown area.

Yes, this is the risk you have to take if you want to trade via an unsafe route. You are allowed (but discouraged) to make such trade.


I think rep should be kept as far as it goes, but if someone/civ is the only way for trades and you demand them to leave, rightfully it isn't "your fault" Live with the rep hit after that.

I agree, so it's allowed in my rules. However, unless you are sure the civ entering your territory is looking for a sneak attack, you shouldn't demand it to leave, unless you are playing a defiant game. In any case, it's highly discouraged to do such trade in the first place.

I'm actually fine with breaking RoP deal.


I'm with you there, even if it makes me feel kinda sick, doing it. But if the AI does it, so do I.

They never jumped palaces though, or ship-chained to conquer your island.

Common sense is good.

I agree, so it's allowed in my rules. However, unless you are sure the civ entering your territory is looking for a sneak attack, you shouldn't demand it to leave, unless you are playing a defiant game. In any case, it's highly discouraged to do such trades in the first place.

Then define it.

I'm with you there, even if it makes me feel kinda sick, doing it. But if the AI does it, so do I.

They never jumped palaces though, or ship-chained to conquer your island.

Common sense is good.

Whether AI does it or not is actually not my concern. My concern is simply our reputation, i.e., the reputation to make future per-turn trade, MA, or RoP with the AI. :) Since declaring inside AI territory trashes RoP reputation, I disallow it here. Since declaring outside AI territory with an active RoP deal has no impact on RoP rep, it's allowed. If some day the game changes it, we'll change the rule too. :)

Then define it.

I added Note 3. Not sure if that is what you meant. I try to minimize the word count in my rules.

Thank you, we are on the same level now. :)

I concur to all the rules.

4 & 5 - Makes you my ally forever.

I just had to point that out. :)

If you never read this thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=102991), I'd suggest you do it now. I've downloaded the modpack and it looks really fun. Those animal leaderheads are funny!

I cannot resist but decide to use this mod for a couple of my next games. :) Heck, I should have used it for Mic5.

@gozpel
I tought I could get a spot due to a dropout, but thanks for letting me play. Guess it's a matter of time until we play in the same SG :)

@Microbe
I'd probably join when you start, but I wanna see first how it's going with the games I'm already in.

I added a rule about utilities:

Utilities and Trainer Programs:
You are allowed to use mapstat for culture, pollution, happiness and trading opportunities only. You are not allowed to use flip or combat calculators. No utilities that provide spoiler information are allowed. If unclear, ask me.

Since I'm not familiar with all such utilities, you can always ask me if a particular one is allowed.

Utilities and Trainer Programs:
You are allowed to use mapstat for culture, pollution, happiness and trading opportunities only. You are not allowed to use flip or combat calculators. No utilities that provide spoiler information are allowed. If unclear, ask me. This is a very good rule imho. I think it takes tension from the game if you know the %chance your sword will kill that spear. To me it is enough to know how the chances are roughly.

I'm going to make my next SG on the zoomod (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=102991). It's a mod that replaces leaderheads with animals. Very cool.

The download is 80M, so you probably need a broadband. I'm posting to get a feel how many people can make it, then decide what to play. Probably a big map?

I just love the mod and want to play it. :)

If you are interested please let me know.

my sg are going slower then i expected, i'd like to join more. but it depends on the other rules you're going to play with. rarely played on big maps with many foes (takes too long), like the idea to do it in an SG.

I know there has been a long time but didn't realize there was 2 months of inactivity in this thread. :eek:

Anyway, I don't have plan to start a new game in the very near future, as I have too many other SGs going on and I expect LKendter will keep me busy for a while. :) Things could change at any moment though.

As I mentioned in another thread:

With so many war games in the past two months, especially the prelonged GR3 and MLDR5, I am kind of burned out. I'll keep low on SG now and away from war-intensive games for a while. I'd like to try something different (and more relaxed) instead of repeating the same game.


Mic8 was such an attempt. I really like the passive concept.

I do not have many new ideas at this moment. We can replay Mic3 or Mic7 with some different settings, but I do not feel obligated to start new games soon.

If you were to replay Mic7, with no units whatsoever, and at Demigod or Deity, I would join that instead of joining up in Gr4.

OK, I am thinking Deity and 60% pangea. One thing I am not sure is if we allow warriors as MP and fighting barbs (so we can try expansionist civ on this map).

If we stick with roaming barbs, I would go expansionistic and no MP. If we go higher, we'll need MP. I would prefer roaming and expansionistic.