Time for Bugs2.

This is not an original idea. (I don’t get too many of those.) This is coming directly out of Sirian’s idea for RBCiv Epic 12. I think this variant is a huge challenge. The original Epic was played as the Zulu at Diety and of the eight players who completed the game, only one, Urugharakh, recorded a victory of any type. There were some pretty impressive players on that list: Sulla, Sirian, and Cyrene to a few names.

• No purchasing workers. No workers through diplomacy by any means, including peace.
• No upgrading units. Ever. You build a unit, it remains that type of unit "for life".
• You may not pillage your own lands. (Includes no disconnecting your own resources).
• No trading away of your last unit of any given resource. You must keep one for yourself.
• No scrolling ahead through cities during the production phase, "between turns".
• No prebuilding of any kind. No placeholders. Ever. There is only way you are allowed to change projects. If you change city projects, you MUST wipe out any shields stored in the box by first changing to Wealth, which will erase all but one shield, then (and only then) may you assign a city to a new item.

Additionally, we will adhere to standard RBCiv rules. The rule of thumb is: if it feels like an exploit, than it is an exploit and we are better than that. The list is here: http://www.realmsbeyond.net/civ/etactics.html

Civilization: Ottomans (this was TBD)
Difficulty: Demi-God
World Size: Small
Opponents: Five Random
Climate: Normal
Temperature: Cold
Age: 4 Billion
Land Mass: 30%
Land Shape: Continents
Barbarians: Restless
Version: [c3c] 1.22
AI Aggression: Normal
Scientific Leaders are off.
Preserve random seed in on.
Culturally linked is off.
All victory conditions except wonder are enabled
Respawn is off.

Roster:

Team 2.0
Denyd
Scoutsout
DJMGator
Bugs
Yom

Team 2.0
grahamiam
Microbe
Gozpel
Bede
<Open>

The teams are not competing.

BTW - I'm going last because I'll do a reality check on the start, and will have a few turns worth of spoiler information.

I’m thinking that the Ottomans would be a very good civ for this game for the Industrious and Scientific traits, plus the Sipahi is a dominant but expensive UU. However, I think I will leave that decision up to the team.

i'll play, looks tough. what do you do if you buy a tech that leads to the next type of unit (ie, building a spear and then buy fuedalism). can you switch (not sure if "city projects" = units as well)?

can you disband units in cities to gain thier shields or are you saddled with them the whole game?

The G-man is in. Thanks G-man.

I'm looking through the write ups for the original game. It appears that disbanding units is OK. I think the game will automatically switch the build if it is a unit, i.e. spear is switched to a pike on researching feudalism. The spirit will be start fresh.

This looks interesting... :hmm:

@Bugsy: Let me see how full my plate is... I'm interested, but I don't want to bite off more than I can chew. (And this variant at this level might be over-reaching for me...)

For those interested in reading about Sirian's attempt: http://sirian.warpcore.org/civ3/epic12.html

Here's Sullla's attempt: http://www.kalikokottage.com/civ3/sullla/Epic12.html

Here are the rest of the reports: http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=189557&messageid=1032149511

One should note that the start on this game was really bad. I'm hoping to at least have a reasonable start.

To heck with it. I'll learn somethin' if I play this game. Count me in.

Count me in too (though just earlier today my conquests cd wasn't working, so you may have to skip me a few times if it happens again).

Why don't we play at deity? The difference between Deity and Demi-god isn't much at all.

Scout and Yom are on the team. Yom, I'll put you last so you can get your CD working.

@Yom - So you don't think this variant is hard enough at Demi-god? :eek:

either difficulty is fine by me. wonders will have to be captured either way and we'll probably have to win via domination or conquest.

as for civ's, i'd like to try one of the new ones though ottomans are pretty fun.

It'll be plenty hard at demigod, I just suggested Deity since it was the original level played. Besides, this is supposed to be an extremely challenging game anyway ;).

Not a sign-up, but I don't see much variant in this game either except "no upgrading" and "no prebuilding". The former is a nuisance, and the latter just means probably no wonders until Industrial Ages, but that's normally the case for DG/deity anyway.

Not saying this would be an easy game, but just not much a variant perhaps?

@Microbe: The variant part may seem small, but you'd be surprised by how much of a difference being able to prebuild makes. Plus, you forgot a major part of the variant: no switching cities' builds unless you switch to wealth first to 'shed' the shields.

You may be right. It might be hard to speculate until you try it in the game.

Can I sign up then? :)

@Bugsy: We may also want to consider the Germans with their Late UU. The fact that nothing upgrades to it makes the upgrading part less restrictive, but then again, we're not looking for an easy game, are we :D.

Microbe completes the team. What does everyone think about the civ?

I had the same thought as Yom that we'll probably win with tanks. So Germany sounds great to me.

The advantage of a late UU is that we would have caught up at that time and dedicate our production to it, especially with a GA. An early UU probably would not bring much benefit anyway if we are not in a position to attack.

Sucks to miss out on Bugs2 :gripe:

panzers are always fun but I would like to take the cossacks for a ride again so my vote goes for russians :D (how's that for a curve ball :) )

Actually, austria has good traits and a pretty good UU too (would be fun to play with them, but Germany's probably the best civ for the variant, unless we want to go with the Zulus :D).

Any chance of starting a Bugs 2.1 for those of us who missed signing up in time for this?

I'm open on the civ.

Yeah we could do that. Gozpel and Denyd are on 2.1

Maybe we can vote on civ first, and reassign the team based on that.

I guess we need to think about what traits we'd want. It is easy to say which ones we don't want: expansionist and seafaring would be right out. I think scientific would be a good one and then either industrious or commercial would be preferred for me. While militaristic would be good, with the MGL being downgraded it has lost some appeal. The Argicultural trait would be good, but the Sumerians don't appeal to me. That's why I was leaning towards the Ottomans being scientific and industrious with a great cav replacement UU.

Edit - Just saw Microbe's post, I think holding off on team assignments is a good idea.

Thanks Bugsy :)

I never played Maya in a SG and would like to harvest workers, when we can't buy them.

That's not good, so we have more choices (4) than teams (2)! :)

I guess Bugs can rule on two CIVs and others get to vote, otherwise there will be no consensus.

EDIT: Or, everyone gets to choose 2 or 3 from the 4, and let's see whether we can then form teams.

I'm actually fine with any CIVs, so any team is short of people I can join.

Alright, let's do this then

Option A - Ottomans (Scientific, Industrious, UU=Sipahi (8.3.3 replacement for cavalry))

Option B - Greeks (Scientific, Commercial, UU=Hoplite (1.3.1 replacement for spearman))

A's fine w/ me, otto's are fun

prefer ottomans but fine with greece too.

Vote:

A: grahamiam, microbe (1/2), scout (1/2), Bugs, Denyd, gozpel = 5

B: microbe (1/2), scout (1/2) = 1

Tune in often to monitor election results as they come in. :D

Four tribes come to mind:

Germany:
Good: Military & Scientific would help a lot on research and a UU that can't be upgraded to
Bad: No pre-builds means a having to build tanks from scratch and normal workers (also currently in 2 games as Germany)

Ottomans:
Good: Scientific & Industrious helps on science and improving the land, also a great UU and I haven't played this one in while
Bad: Very expensive UU

Greeks:
Good: Scientific & Commercial are solid traits, very good early defender
Bad: Can get GA way too early

Dutch:
Good: Agriculture is an excellent trait and the UU is a cheap musket and a victory by the UU is in a great spot for a GA, also I've never played the Dutch
Bad: Seafaring is a weak trait

Edit: Looks like I cross posted with quite a few people - since I like industrious more than commercial and prefer a later GA when the cities have had a chance to develop, I'll go with the Ottomans

Edit: Looks like I cross posted with quite a few people

Yeah, but at least we're thinking along the same lines. :D

Ok, I suppose we can go with the way over-powered sipahis then, I don't want a GA in the mid 2000bc. :) It will be different when we can't build 50 horses and upgrade.

I still think Maya would be fun though, I suppose I can create that anytime myself.

@Bugsy: Can I cast my ballot again since apparently I neglected to punch Chad hard enough? :p

@Bugsy: Can I cast my ballot again since apparently I neglected to punch Chad hard enough? :p

Sure, since you're from Florida, we understand. :D

I vote A, we're definitely going to be doing some late warring. Hoplite doesn't need an upgrade to Pike, but it's not very useful in helping us conquerdue to its defensive nature.

Seems team A is overcrowded. :lol:

I think we'll just have two teams playing the same game.

I have generated a save. Here's the start.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugs2_Start.jpg

I'll divide the seven of us into two teams and hope we get three more.

OK, here's a split into two teams, that I think will work. G-man, if you wouldn't mind being the captain of team 2.1. Since Yom may have disk problems I put him last. Yom if your problems are resolved you can jump ahead of me. I have some spoiler information on our immediate area so I'll keep my mouth shut. I'll open a second thread shortly.

Team 2.0
Denyd
Scoutsout
Bugs
Yom
<open>

Team 2.0
grahamiam
Microbe
Gozpel
<Open>
<Open>

The teams are not competing.

Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugs2_Start,_4000_BC.SAV

The other thread is here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=91538)

ok, sounds good. good luck :)

Good luck to all. This will be very interesting.

@Bugs,

If you still have an open slot would be honored to particpate as a member of either team.

Well teammates, any directions for me?

I'm guessing from the picture to move the worker NW to the wheat and if things to the N aren't better than jungle and mountains to settle in place, if it's grasslands or plains, then move the settler N or W and found on the FP. For the number crunchers out there, is it better to mine or irrigate a wheat on a FP in Despotism. For Research, I'm thinking pottery at max and then writing.

What's a good first build? Warriors are quicker to build but have a very short lifespan, spearmen take longer but can provide some defense in cities after exploring. The priority is probably speed of exploration, so probably warriors.

I've got 1 SG (Gram 1.0) ahead of this, so I might not get to it until tomorrow.

I'm interested in giving it a go. :wavey: :bounce:

@ Denyd - That sounds like a plan. I know you play a solid opening and have great judgment.

@ Bede & Gator - Welcome aboard. We'll take you gents in in the order you arrived. Brother Bede, we'll slot you in over in the 2.1 team, and Gator you'll get to follow scout in this game. I'll update the rosters.

Well teammates, any directions for me?

I'm guessing from the picture to move the worker NW to the wheat and if things to the N aren't better than jungle and mountains to settle in place, if it's grasslands or plains, then move the settler N or W and found on the FP. For the number crunchers out there, is it better to mine or irrigate a wheat on a FP in Despotism. For Research, I'm thinking pottery at max and then writing.

What's a good first build? Warriors are quicker to build but have a very short lifespan, spearmen take longer but can provide some defense in cities after exploring. The priority is probably speed of exploration, so probably warriors.

I've got 1 SG (Gram 1.0) ahead of this, so I might not get to it until tomorrow.

I'd probably go the warrior route also, for exploration. Spears not needed till we see how close neighbors are.

Is using the F10 Space Race check allowed in RBCiv rules? I did not see any mention of it. Could influence research. With all the FPs I don't know that we need POT for our capital as the first tech.

Also, unless it changed in C3C mining a Wheat FP has no (0) effect, so irrigate it.

Floodplains can only be irrigated.

I would pump out a few warriors while research pottery at max (we can't prebuild, so we want to get it ASAP so we can start the granary soon). After a Granary we can probably get a 4 or 5 turn settler factory running thanks to that FP Wheat.

I'm guessing we're gonna end up settling one tile N. of the starting position for shields, but we may find Grasslands in the East. We just have to be wary of too much food and too few shields (at least we're industrious so the jungle clearing takes less time).

THE SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugs20_3000BC.SAV)

Turn Log 1

Turn 0 – 4000 BC – For those interested, the opponents are: Korea, China, Carthage, Portuguese & the Byzantines (first time I’ve played with them) – reset personal preferences – Ann (worker) NE spots a BG so settler founds Istanbul in place, starts a warrior, research for pottery at maximum due in 15

Turn 1 – 3950 BC – Ann starts irrigation

Turn 2 – 3900 BC – ZZZ

Turn 3 – 3850 BC – Ann finished irrigation

Turn 4 – 3800 BC – Ann starts road – Istanbul grows to size 2

Turn 5 – 3750 BC – Slider to 0-8-2 – Ann finishes road

Turn 6 – 3700 BC – Ann moves to BG – Istanbul warrior->warrior

Turn 7 – 3650 BC – Conan (warrior) NW-W – Ann starts mine

Turn 8 – 3600 BC – Conan W

Turn 9 – 3550 BC – Conan W, note there is a lot of jungle NW of Istanbul – Istanbul culture expansion

Turn 10 – 3500 BC – Conan W – Ann completes mine

Turn 11 – 3450 BC – Conan NW spots a tobacco – Ann starts road – MM Istanbul – Istanbul warrior->Settler

Turn 12 – 3400 BC – Thor (warrior) S – Conan NW – Slider to 2-5-3 – Light Blue Warrior appears from the west

Turn 13 – 3350 BC - China (light blue) has 2 cities, 35g and is up Warrior Code – Ann moves to forest – Thor W – Conan NW – Discover Pottery research Alphabet due in 24

Turn 14 – 3300 BC – Ann starts forest chop – Thor S – Conan SW

Turn 15 – 3250 BC – Thor S – Conan W spots a hut

Turn 16 – 3200 BC – Conan pops hut for a map of the region showing spices and a cow – Thor S – Ann finishes chop – Istanbul settler->settler

Turn 17 – 3150 BC – Settler S – Ann starts mine – Thor S – Conan NE

Turn 18 – 3100 BC – Thor S – Settler S – Conan NE

Turn 19 – 3050 BC – Thor S finds bottom of island (?) – Settler SE – Conan NE spots brown border

Turn 20 – 3000 BC – Thor E spots a whale off the coast – Settler S reaches city spot – Conan NE spots brown warrior – Carthage (brown) is 2 cities up Alphabet, Warrior Code & Ceremonial Burial, with 35g and wines connected – China will trade Warrior Code + 35g for Pottery (Carthage already has it so next player should make the deal now) – The settler can found in place or move depending on your choice – Note that Istanbul will be growing next turn and will need to increase the luxury tax to keep the peace – I thought about a granary to get a settler factory going – After a settler maybe a couple of workers to remove the jungle and connect the second city

And a little candy for the lurkers:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugs20_3000BC.jpg

Denyd, why did you build a settler before a Granary? With the forest chop, we could have gotten the Granary built quickly and a 5-turn settler factory up from 4-6 or 5-7 with some attention. Do we want to build another Settler now, or should we swap to wealth and swap back to a granary?

The first settler was because I didn't have pottery researched yet. The second probably should have been a granary. I was thinking about having to raise the lux rate and hoped to get a lux resource (but none have shown up nearby yet). As soon as the 2nd settler is finished a granary would be a good choice (I saved the SW forest for that). The next city should probaby open with a pair of workers to connect to Istanbul and provide a quick path to the south.

Well our lands are already 200% better than the original RBCiv Gauntlet game.

Roster:
Denyd- Just Played
Scout - Up
Bugs - On Deck
Yom

The more I think about Istanbul, with it's high food, low shields, I wonder whether a granary is ever going to be a good idea for that city. I'm thinking it just keeps building settlers & workers until the continent is populated and all the jungle is gone.

I see that I'm up... I'll try to get this played by tomorrow night. My current game of "Where's Waldo" (GK) has thrown me in a couple of SGs I'm in... so if you see me up but slow to pick up in an SG, I appreciate 'bumps'...

I think we should go ahead and finish the settler and then build a granary. With the lands being difficult (desert & jungle) we're going to need some workers to clear that mess. Not to mention some real military.

Roster correction:

Denyd- Just Played
Scout - Up
DJM Gator - On Deck
Bugs
Yom

Sorry about that Gator - I hate Mondays

:bump: Scoutsout? (the thread fell to the second page)

@Bugsy: Btw, what's the situation with looking into the 2.1 thread? Usually there's no looking until the whole map is known, but you didn't mention the issue (I saw some Screenshots in the thread, but no more than we've already explored).

@ Yom, I thought I mentioned that. No looking at the other thread until we know the map.

I gotta change something in the way my stupid CP shows my SGs...

Sorry team - I'll get this played tomorrow night - I forgot about this one and finished COTM1 tonight...

Bugs2

Pre-flight: Trade Pottery to China for WC+35g
Research: Alphabet in 16... Carthage won't trade...
Dang... Istanbul will grow next turn and doesn't have an MP...

Turn 1 (2950) Found Edrine where the settler stood... food poor... start training a warrior
MM Istanbul to get more food. Settler in 4, growth in 4.
Ann Roads, Conan moves NW
=====
IBT - 4 Carthaginian warriors move (!)
=====
Turn 2 (2900) conan continues NW, Thor W
=====
IBT - Carthaginian warriors move
=====
Turn 3 (2850) Thor W to coast, Conan NW, Ann S
=====
IBT - 3 Carthaginian warriors move S...
=====
Turn 4 (2800) Carthage has 2 workers, but unfortunately I cannot buy them under this variant...Conan N, Ann Irrigates, Thor N
China is up the Wheel
=====
IBT - Istanbul equips a settler, starts on another...
=====
Turn 5 (2750) move the settler out, warriors N
=====
IBT - Edrine Warrior>Archer
Canton is founded VERY nearby...
A barb shows up S-SW of Ann
=====
Turn 6 (2710) Muldoon (New Warrior) N
Thor N, finds barb camp
Settler onto jungle tile 2W of our capitol
Conan NE
=====
IBT - 2 barbs menace north, there are 2 that are S-SW of Ann
====

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/bugs2_barbcamp.jpg

Turn 7 (2670) Thor N, sees a small lake in the plains. Dangit... I want access to that lake. Muldoon W, Settler to plains next to lake; Conan NE
=====
IBT - Muldoon fends off one Barb, promotes.
=====
Turn 8 (2630) Thor whacks a barb. Muldoon takes a break. Bursa founded by the lake, starts on a worker. Conan NE, and I think he's running out of land...
=====
IBT - a chinese archer pokes his head out near Bursa (barb hunting, I hope)
=====
Turn 9 (2590) Rest the wounded warriors
Conan NE (trespassing)
=====
IBT - We apologize to Hannibal for trespassing
=====
Turn 10 (2550) Ann roads, Conan W, Muldoon dies to the barb, but 2/3 Thor takes out the barb camp.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugs2_ourworld_2550BC.jpg

After action review:

The good: We now have 3 towns
The bad: I wish we had a granary... but we seem to be able to get settlers out every 6 turns without one...
The ugly: China is in our face already...

Conan is up north... there appears to be more land up there, perhaps another civ.

Ann is roading, and can move to the tile S or our capitol when she's done. She can then begin roading/irrigating towards our southern city.

I wanted to get a warrior scouting NE, and send Thor W... but the barbs messed up that plan.

So, for the next better player...> > The Save < < (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugs20_2550BC.SAV)

I'll play in the AM. China is too close. This could get ugly.

Sorry if I took us too far along a "farmer's gambit"... I should have built another warrior instead of an archer... and I didn't think I'd lose a 4hp Warrior to the stupid barb... I hate the barb combat bonuses at the higher levels. The only thing I can think of is to keep research and lux high, so the AI aren't quite as tempted to demand gold...

I'll play in the AM. China is too close. This could get ugly.

Hey Bugs, I thought I was next. :confused: I know us Gators don't get much respect since Spurrier left but we are still around :lol:

I don't mind waiting if you are set on playing or have already started.

---------------------------

Can we try to sneak the next settler 2 tiles W of Bursa? The city does not need to be productive just mainly to allow us to continue to expand in that direction. I haven't looked at the save yet, only working off Scouts' post.

@Gator: That might have been Bugsy's way of politely telling me that I've hosed up a(nother) Demi-God game... :blush:

Sorry Gator, you are right. You're up. And no scout, I don't thik you have hosed this up. This is a tough start. Not as tough as the original gauntlet, but pretty hard none the less.

I think our expansion efforts should be concentrated to the West. We can settle our Southern region at leisure, but the race for land is West. OCN for this map/level is 12 and we will be hard pressed to achieve that number peacefully.

I was trying to figure out where China is? We can only see 1 CHN city, #3 in name order. I'm thinking they are in what I labeled as area 2. If they were to our SW (in the fog) would they have bypassed a tobacco & a coastal fish to build in the jungle?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugs20_2550BC01.jpg

We should settle towards China and try and run some blocks to keep settler pairs out of the southern area.

I have an idea - what about siting a city 3 NE of our capitol? (Yes, in the Jungle). The bananas and floodplains offer plenty of food... we could use it for a worker pump or place to whip units...

Preturn check -2550BC
1) Wow - we have 3 cities, only one worker and 2 warriors ( 1 scouting way up in the NW and the other redlined)
2) CHN is up only The Wheel, while CART is up ALPHA, WHEEL, & CB
3) CART has 2 techs which were not innately know by any of the civs in the game
4) CART will take 36 gold for ALPHA but we are 2 turns away from it, so I wait

Goal:
Get a city west of Bursa so we don't get boxed in.

IBT
CART mpoves a warrior settler pair W to 2 tiles due S of Conan
CHN 2 archers appear out of the fog from the South - they are W SW of Bursa

Turn 1 - 2510BC
Conan NW / Thor NW
adj Sci to 40% ALPHA in 1 (CART would sell for 11gold)

IBT
CHN 2 archers move N towards Canton, not towards us although they are still on Bursa border

Turn 2 - 2470BC
Learned ALPHA set to WRITING in 23 @80% +0gpt / lux still at 20%
TRADE w/ CHN: ALPHA & 9 gold for WHEEL
CART up only CB now
Only supply of horses visible is already in CART territory

Thor goes N / Conan N spies the border of CART's 4th city

IBT
CHN 2 archers N definitely headed to Canton or after barbs (F3 guy says barbs near Bursa)

Turn 3 - 2430BC
ISTANBUL settler=> settler (Granary would help with growth but the shields aren’t there for a faster factory)
Sci to 90% WRIT in 25 because of settler /Lux to 10%

Settler W SW / Thor NE / Conan W

IBT
CHN builds 5th city (on the plain next to the tobacco & fish - THE BOX IS ALMOST SHUT) & learns IW / CART learns IW also - still at 4 cities

turn 4 - 2390BC
F3 guy says barbs still near Bursa - concerned about moving settler unescorted - we can’t afford to lose a settler

Conan N / Ann finished road moves SW / settler W into Bursa / Thor heals (he is still redlined because I was moving him for MP duty)

IBT na

Turn 5 - 2350BC
Conan NE is trespassing but is on a mt for the view / settler SW / Ann irrigates / Thor W SW with settler (only at 2/3 on hp)
Lux to 20% / Sci to 80%

IBT
CART builds 5th city - on western side on Canton - so much for going West

Turn 6 - 2310BC
EDRINE Archer (ren Will Penny)=>worker (grow in 5 worker in 5)
BUSRA worker (ren Worker2)=>worker
Lux to 10%/Sci90%

Will Penny S / Thor SW (spots a fortified 2hp barb) / move settler with Thor (hopefully Thor will protect him) Worker2 SE /Conan W

IBT
CHN archer moves towards barb & barb does not attack Thor & settler

Turn 7 - 2270BC
Thor & settler SW (still next to barb - CHN has warrior & archer next to barb) / Conan W / Will S / Worker2 roads since irr is due in 1
lux to 20% / Sci to 80%

IBT
CHN warrior losses to barb - CHN archer takes out barb

Turn 8 - 2230BC
Will SW / Ann NW / Thor & Settler SW / Conan W (spies barb camp)

IBT
CHN warrior N (now 2 tiles due S of Bursa)

Turn 9 - 2190BC
Settler founds IZNIK set to Spear - interesting there is a wheat in the 2nd cultural ring - also no other blue borders - also appears to be an Oasis S SW SW of IZNIK
CHN must be in Area 2 after all

Will SW / Thor forts / Ann W / Worker2 NE starts Chop (no Istanbul is using that forest) move SW W (will chop this forest instead) / Conan N towards Bcamp

mm Istanbul & Bursa - get Istan back to +5 food (oops - I forgot to do it on growth turn - costs us 1 turn on growth but sped up settler by 1 turn)

IBT - na

Turn 10 - 2150BC
Will SW / Ann irrigates / Worker2 starts chop / Conan attacks N to Bcamp (flawless attack +25gold)

Notes to next player
1) Settler & worker due next turn - need to mm Bursa after settler in Istan (worker due in 3 grow in 4)
2) Conan is now trapped up north
3) It looks like we can get at least 1 more city SW of IZNIK
4) China appears to be in Area 2 (still not confirmed)

Note to Team
We may not have to worry about violating the no upgrade rule. We have no horses and we only have 1 possible tile location for iron (when we learn IW). We also currently appear to have no lux to trade for either of these later. Oh yeah, and we only have 2 cities currently that can grow above size 6 without an aqueduct. This game is certainly going to be fun.

The 2150BC Save (http://www/civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugs20_2150BC.SAV)

Our Empire

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugs20_2150BC_01.jpg

Now I've got it.

I'm wondering if a spearman is the best build for Iznik. It has no barracks, so it'll end up regular. Since it only has 1 shield invested, we can swap it to a barracks with no shield loss. We're hemmed in pretty good. I don't think we can avoid an early war (maybe even archer rush if we can't find horses or iron).

Edit:
As for city placement: One west of the oasis should lock borders with Iznik, bring in the wheat and reduce overlap. We may want to leave our forests intact to serve as production. Iznik can get up to 10 spt before corruption at size six with 3 irrigated plains (including the plains wheat) and 3 forests. Seeing as Edrine is on a worker and is pretty far into it, the forest chop shields will be wasted and will lower Edrine's spt until we get some mines up. Changing production would be counter-productive as well, but since we're industrious, the chop will complete before the worker ends no matter when it was started. The worker turns complete before production, so the 10 shields will go to waste. I would stop work on the chop and begin irrigating to iznik and around edrine, since the city can grow over size 6.

I'm wondering if a spearman is the best build for Iznik.

I wasn't sure what to build, I selected a spear because of the closeness of China and the fact that we are weaker militarily than them. When the space to expand is gone they will start to pick on the weakest (currently us).

EDIT: Sorry, I thought I timed the chop for after the current worker.

I think you're right Yom. An archer rush may be in our very near future.

First, my apologies to the team for slacking in my own game. :spank:

Preflight - 2150 BC – Go back and read the last turn log. This is a serious farmer’s gambit. Three military units, one is garrisoned, one is nearby to the south. I’ll let the builds stand, except for the spear. I change to wealth, then select a warrior. Didn’t matter, there was only one shield in the box. :rolleyes:

Bursa is a bit messed up. The worker will complete in three and the city will grow in four. So we’ll lose a turn of shield production. Further the forest chop is due to complete in three, so we’d waste 12 shields. Stop the forest chop .

China is up CB & IW, neither are tradable. Same deal with Carthage.

IBT – China moves a warrior next to the undefended Bursa. Can you say sneak attack? I thought you could.
Istanbul: Settler=> warrior
Edrine: worker=>warrior

1. 2110 BC – Dudes, we are hurting. Send the archer up from the south. In an attempt to keep Mao from attacking, I borrow 17G from him at 1gpt interest rate. *crosses fingers* Science is now at 70%, writing due in 21.

IBT – No attack.

2. 2070 BC – Send the archer south again.

IBT – Chinese warrior moves south next to Bursa again.

3. 2030 BC - :sleep:

IBT – A barb horse comes up from the south. Bursa: worker=>warrior

4. 1990 BC – Our exploring archer to the south runs out of dirt.

IBT – Chinese dude takes care of the barb horse.
Istanbul: warrior=>warrior

5. 1950 BC – Our exploring warrior up north runs out of dirt to the east.

IBT – The Chinese warrior whacks a barb in the fog.
Edrine: warrior=>curraugh
Chinese start the Colossus.

6. 1910 BC – Exploring north out of Istanbul we find some silks. Next settler is going there.

IBT - Istanbul: warrior=>settler
Chinese start the Pyramids

7. 1870 BC – Settler moves into position in the south.

8. 1830 BC – Found Uskudar to the south to grab a whale, a cow and two BG on expansion.

IBT – Istanbul gets hit with disease.
Iznik: warrior=>archer

9. 1790 BC – Start irrigating south towards Erdine and west towards Iznik. Start exploring southward towards China from Iznik.

IBT – Disease hits Istanbul a second time.

10. 1750 BC – Whack a barb camp for 25G. Our dude up north dies trying to whack a barb camp. Science drops to 50%, writing due in 3.

After Action Report: In hindsight, I shouldn’t have sent the settler south. West or north would have been much better. If we can ever get enough population in Istanbul to build another settler, we should send it north to grab the silks (red dot) or west towards the oasis and wheat. Between the jungle, the FP and the swamps, we’re going to probably see a lot more health problems. After the Bursa build, we’ll probably have enough warriors for garrison and exploring. Should probably go all archers after that. I would have started archers earlier, but the Chinese were making me very nervous.

Situation:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugs2_1750_BC.jpg

Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugs_20,_1750_BC.SAV

Roster Check:
Denyd - On Deck
Scout
DJM Gator
Bugs - Just Played
Yom – Up

Well maybe whoever can get this first, Yom or Denyd.

If Yom's hasn't picked up in the next 6 hours, I'll pick up. (COTM2 goes back to the bench sulking)

Oops, I almost forgot about this one.

Denyd, go ahead and pick it up, I won't be able to pick it up tonight as I have family visiting. If it's okay, we could consider it a swap and I'll play after you.

THE SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugs20_1500BC.SAV)

Turn Log 2

Turn 0 – 1750 BC – Adjust slider to get writing 1 turn earlier – Note that everyone we know already has writing, ceremonial burial & iron working & Carthage has Mathematics

IBT: Not much, just a couple of Chinese units moving around – Istanbul & Bursa grow to size 2, will need luxury shift

Turn 1 – 1725 BC – Move units to serve as MP until we get settlers out – Slider to 1-7-2

IBT: Carthage demands 26g and I give in – Discover Writing research Code of Laws – Bursa Warrior->Settler

Turn 2 – 1700 BC – New Warrior (Thor) MP in Bursa – Odin (Warrior) to Istanbul – Will Penny heading for Edrime – Worker2 completes irrigation moves to irrigate for Iznik – Warrior enters Chinese lands – Conan (warrior) heading for Urskador – Ann & Bev (worker) complete irrigation and move to road for Edrime – slider to 0-10-0 to get Code of Laws in 22

IBT: China complains about worker

Turn 3 – 1675 BC – Will Penny MP in Edrine – Ann & Bev build a road – Conan moving to Urskador – Hercules (warrior) moves to next city site – Warrior finds Bejing

IBT: Barbarian Warrior (BW) shows up SW of Bursa (Chinese warrior heading that way) – Edrine Curragh-Barracks

Turn 4 – 1650 BC – Argo (curragh) leaves port to explore the world – Ann & Bev move to chop for barracks – Wake Will Penny and send him barbarian hunting – Cam (Worker) finishes road moves to connect silks – Achilles (Warrior) keeps touring China – Conan rests to regain health – Nothing new on the trade front

IBT: Achilles kicked out of China – Chinese warrior kills BW – Another BW SW of Urskador – Mao builds embassy in Istanbul

Turn 5 – 1625 BC – Will Penny (2/3) kills BW and disperses Barbarian Village (BV) +25g – Argo going east finds another island – Conan moves to cut off BW – Turn off the Governor in Iznik – Worker2 completes irrigation and moves to connect to China – Hercules reaches city site – Cam starts road – Achilles heads home for MP duty – Slider to 0-9-1 to prevent Istanbul riot (thanks Dianthus)

IBT: Chinese Vet Warrior heading to southern BV

Turn 6 – 1600 BC – Ann & Bev finish chop start irrigation – Hercules rests waiting for settler – Worker2 starts road – Achilles heading for city site – Conan going barb hunting – Argo finds another island to the east

IBT: Carthage spear/settler pair show up going for our silks – Chinese spear/settler pass worker2 heading north – Istanbul Settler->Warrior – Lisbon builds the Colossus

Turn 7 – 1575 BC – Will Penny heading to Edrine to heal – Odin & Hercules block Carthage settler – Achilles to Bursa – Odin to Istanbul – Settler heading for spot – Conan (2/4) kills BW and promotes – Argo moving N along empty island coastline – Just a note that even though both China and Carthage have Iron Working neither has any hooked up yet – Slider to 1-9-0

IBT: Carthage settler trying to skirt by block – Urskador worker->curragh – China start the Oracle

Turn 8 – 1550 BC – Ann & Bev finish irrigation move to irrigate another plain – Thor MP in Istanbul – settler reaches site – Odin & Hercules move the blockade – Achilles MP in Bursa – Worker2 has connected us to China, starts irrigation – Deb (Worker) moves to connect Urskador to empire – Conan fortify to heal – Argo continues on journey

IBT: Carthage spear settler pair advance – BW shows up near new city site

Turn 9 – 1525 BC – Deb starts road – Settler founds Izmit and silks are connect to the empire, start a barracks – Cam moves to improve BG – Hercules moves towards BV – Odin (1/3) kills BW

IBT: Carthage is going to plant a city out on that eastern point

Turn 10 – 1500 BC – Ann & Deb finish irrigation move to road towards Urskador – Conan (2/4) kills BW, but there’s a BH waiting – There’s a Barbarian Galley (BG) near Urskador to someone off this island has Map Making – Cam starts mine – Argo is around top of new island – If Conan losses to that BH, China will sell Iron Working for 158g + 2gpt (that would keep the BH from stealing the gold) – I went for Code of Laws (due in 11) so the next person could go for Philosophy and we could get Republic as the bonus – Use that Bursa settler to fill in our middle – If Carthage turns that settler around, start one in Istanbul after the warrior finishes to take that spot

Here's visual for the lurkers

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugs20_1500BC.jpg

@Yom: If you still plan to swap with Denyd, that'd be fine with me. I can't pick this up for another day or two.

I'll get this later tonight, after HNDY04.

Edit:Hmm...well that was unexpected. Windows task manager shows me that Conquests automatically cancels the operation after a few seconds :( (no idea why. It has done this once or twice before, but I'm really not in the mood to try to screw around with my computer to get it to work right now). Please skip me.

So scout is up.

I have some turns I need to finish shadowing for GK2... and that's going to eat a little time. I'll try to get to this tomorrow if that's okay with the team..

*cough, cough*

DOH! Sorry team :blush: Lemme get my game face on, and get this played tonight.

Pre-flight check... science at 100%! Wow! I guess we're going for the Republic slingshot...

IBT - The Chinese found a city to the NE, a Carthagninian settler pair moves.
Istanbul Warrior>Settler
Iznik Archer>Archer

Turn 1 (1475)
Wait the wounded warriors, sail the curraugh... dang, that's it?!?

IBT - A Carthaginian settler pair appears in the north.

Turn 2 (1450)
Sail the curraugh... move some workers.

IBT - Carthaginian settler pair encroach. A barb warrior appears E of Iznik

Turn 3 (1425) Conan whacks a barb camp.

IBT - Carthaginian settler pairs trespass

Turn 4 (1400) Move some workers for road projects for fast settling, put a warrior outside our borders in a prime spot by some fish. Sail the curraugh.

IBT - Dangit - Carthaginian settler pair is coming through our territory...
Bursa Settler>Warrior

Turn 5 (1375) Whack a barb camp, move a settler out, sail our curraugh around a large and (so far) unpopulated landmass...

IBT - Carthage found Oea E-NE of our capitol.

Turn 6 (1350) let some banged-up warriors heal..

I note a Byzantine city on the map East of Oea...and we don't have contact with Theodora yet.

Turn 7 (1325)
Istanbul isn't happy, lux to 10%, CoL still in 3, science to 80%.
A couple of worker moves...

IBT - Carthaginian settler pair moves to a tile S-SE of Bursa
Istanbul Settler>Settler

Turn 8 (1300) organize a trio of workers SW of Edrine, irrigate a plains in 1 turn.
Found Aydin on the edge of the desert, and that carthaginian settler pair now has to move 4 times to get outside our borders. Tinker with the sliders (lux to zero)

IBT - Some settler pairs move, Carthage starts Great Lighthouse
Byzantines complete Mausoleum of Mausollos

Turn 9 (1275) move some workers, move the settler, sail the curraugh...and it's decsion time...

Where do you guys want the next settler?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/bugs2_750BC_SETTLER.jpg

After action review:

I know it's odd to end on "Turn 9", but I thought we might want to take a moment and strategize. I pretty much played "land grab" there with Carthage, who was sending settler pairs southward. I did some quick roading projects to facilitate movement.

The settler to the south could land on the tile SW of the cow, or pretty much anywhere down there. The Carthaginian pair cannot win the foot race.

There is another settler in the queue, and there are some potential sites that are within our borders, NE of our capitol. (Using bananas...) Any site up there will need some worker turns, but there is a worker up there roading... another is roading some forest, so we can come back and chop quickly at an opportune moment.

So... for the next better player: > > The Save < < (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugs20_1275BC.SAV)

The settler to the south could land on the tile SW of the cow, or pretty much anywhere down there.


If we're trying for 2 cities down south I would go SW of cow & on tundra at the bottom. If we only want 1 city south I would go 1 S of cow.

BTW, does anyone know if Yom is up and running again? I'm going to be out of town from Fri to Sun, but could play before I go if Yom is not ready yet.

EDIT: And I meant W of cow.

I can play again (I got fed up with conquests, but I got it working again after a couple of reinstalls/restarts on Independence day).

Aren't you up though? I'm guessing you want me to play now so that you play right before you leave and not get skipped/hold up the game.

Edit:Btw, SW of the cow, I'm guessing you mean W? If so, I agree with you. 1 W of the Cow and on the tundra seem to be the way to go. I would also swap Edrine from that archer to a worker or barracks (it only started last turn, so no shields lost).

We're pretty cramped (especially in the N.) so We may have to go for an archer rush (do we even have any resources?).

Edit2: I would settle the Cow site first. I'm guessing that Carthaginian stack is a settler pair, so we can prevent them from settling by simply settling the Cow site and setting a warrior on the Tundra (the other tiles are too close for them to settle, so they'll head back.

Let's put Yom up next. I'll put the whole roster up as soon as I can find it.

Edit - Here it is

Denyd
Scout - Just played
Yom – Up
DJM Gator - On Deck
Bugs

Got it (and damn that 10 char. minimum).

Edit: Hmm...is it just me, or has the roster changed a bit (weren't you just before me in the roster, bugs?)?

I'd run a two unit block with the archer in Edrine and the warrior in Aydin. Run up and down the road and use the city tile and the warrior to the south.

NW or SW of the cow works as does the tundra tile. Looks like we'll be close to ICS.

I don't think we need a block at all. As long as I move the warrior S 2 squares onto the Tundra and settle the cow spot, the Settler pair will leave since there's nothing left to settle.

Yes, I was, but since you haven't played yet, I thought it would be fair to get you in as soon as possible.

Dangit, I meant NW of the cow. Sorry guys, I played 2.0 gram tonight too. 19 rounds at demi-god, and I just finished SGOTM2 (mercifully).

I wish it was Friday... in the morning this is gonna hurt....

Turn -1 (I'm going to play 11 turns to even out the numbers) -
Hmm..apparently there are lands to our East that we can colonize.
They won't be very productive, but they'll get us Horses. Our Iron
Chances are pretty slim with only 1 tile that can potentially hold
iron. There are a couple of mountains & hills on the islands
though, so we could still have a chance at Iron and avoid an archer
rush.

We are down CB, Math, IW, and Map Making.
Aydin is switched to a worker.
CoL will come in next turn (we should have gotten Philosophy). I
will switch research to philosophy when it comes in.

IBT - Research set to Philosophy at 100%, comes in 9 at -1gpt.
Edrine:Barracks->Curragh.

Turn 0 - Our curragh backtracks to meet the Byzantines.
Apparently everyone else was researching CoL too, as both China
and Carthage have it.

IBT - Iznik:Archer->Barracks (why were we building an archer
without one?)

Turn 1 - The Carthaginian settler pair has penetrated deeply into
our territory but we'll found our Cattle city next turn.
Our warrior finds a barb camp with 2 warriors in the tundra
square, which will have to be defeated before we settle.
I move a warrior from Aydin to Edrine to keep it happy and move
its archer South to help defeat the barb camp.

IBT - The carthaginian settler pair retreats. What did I tell you :).
Bursa:Warrior->Barracks.

Turn 2 - Antalya founded next to the cow. Set to worker.
Conan goes toe-to-toe with a conscript barb and wins, getting
redlined in the process.
It's painful to backtrack our curragh, but contact is worth it. Plus,
I see a coast-sea-sea-coast crossing in the north where the
Byzantines must have crossed.

IBT - We get the FP message.
Uskudar:curragh->worker (a temple would be nice to pull in more
tiles, but we don't have CB yet :crazyeye:.
The Portuguese complete the oracle.

Turn 3 - Our new curragh will explore our Island colonies while
the old one and all further ones will try to cross the channel and
get to the Byzantine/portuguese/Korean Homeland.
Hopefully the Byzantines won't have Philosophy when they show
up next turn, as we can get REPUBLIC as our free tech. :D

IBT - The Chinese are building the Great Lighthouse (this should
slow them down. They're obviously our first target).

Turn 4 - Damnit! The Byzantines have philosophy. I had a feeling
that would be the case. They also have all the techs our AIs have
plus Horseback riding.
We can get Philosophy in 4 now at no loss of GPT to trade to the
other AIs.
Will penny is an absolute failure as he fails to even SCRATCH the
barb warrior. I will try with Conan (the barbarian) in 2 turns to see
if he can change his people's minds.

IBT - Edrine:Curragh->Curragh (I was hoping to get MM before
the Curragh finished so that we could get a galley and settle our
colonies faster, but no such luck).

Turn 5 - The island nearest to us (mainly tundra) seems to be
chock-full of Hills and Mountains. Hopefully one of them
contains iron.
Our AIs got Horseback riding this turn. Philosophy is in 3, so
there's no way they can research it before we can sell it to them.

IBT - Istanbul:Settler->Settler
Izmit:Barracks->Archer.

Turn 6 - Conan engages in mortal combat with the barbarian
warrior and manages to lose 4 straight after redlining the barb
:rolleyes:. A reg. archer will try next turn (should have waited
since the barb will heal, but I expected to win).

Our Brave Curragh attempts a crossing of the Red (Byzantine)
Sea. Our 2nd curragh is being chased by a barb Galley.

IBT - The RNG gods are merciful as our Curragh barely fends off
the Galley and our other Curragh doesn't sink.

Turn 7 - I hope the RNG gods are just as merciful now, and attack
with the reg archer. He wins flawlessly (like his predecessor
SHOULD HAVE) and takes the camp, netting us 25 gold.
Philosophy comes in next turn. I hope to get CB, MM, and IW
from it + Cash, but I'll probably only get 2 of the 3.

IBT - Philosophy comes in and research is set on Republic at 10%
(100% would only get it in 40 turns).
Aydin:worker->Barracks.

Turn 8 - Philosophy +22 gold gets us CB and MapMaking from
the Chinese (They don't have contact with the Byzantines so they
consider it monopoly).
Philosophy and 51 gold goes to the Carthaginians for Iron
Working (for whom it is @4th).

Sweet! one of the mountains in the Tundra island has iron.
Edrine's build is automatically switched to a galley (if it hadn't
been, I would have done so anyway, as I feel it's within the rules of
the variant.

BTW, I notice 'Emphasize production is off, so I turn it on.

IBT - Quite convienently, a Portuguese Galley appears from the
West (Must get a settler to the Iron first!!!)
Uskudar riots :smoke:. I give it a scientist and turn off science.

Turn 9 - The Portuguese are up Mysticism, Mathematics, and
Horseback Riding (like everyone else). But also have republic!
Maybe they did a philosophy slingshot?
The only civ left to find is the Koreans.
I have to up the lux tax to 20% until I can get an MP (the archer
that took the barb camp) to Edrine.
Uskudar's worker is swapped to wealth and then swapped to a
much needed temple (it will bring in *7* land tiles of which 5 can
be used by another city).

IBT - Ack! Antalya riots as well, it gets a taxman for now.

Turn 10 - Bah, I can't partial whip the temple in Uskudar and swap
back to a temple thanks to the variant.

The Tundra town will be founded next turn. The settler from
Istanbul is meant to get on the Galley from Edrine (I would build
one more Galley and then set it on Archer/Swordsman production)
and settle the Iron site. I would set it on a harbor immediately and
ship over a worker later to hook up the Iron (remember, no
upgrades, so avoid building warriors).
Also, I would use our workers in the South to immediately
connect Antalya and Tundra town to the road network to get
happiness from our silks).

Here are two tentative dotmaps. The red dots are high priority with
Iron coming first. Black dots are less important
cities/fillers/fishing villages. There are 10 dots, so we may want to
build settlers in a few more towns in order to get most of them.
Futhermore, I would place Tundra Island at a higher priority (at
least the closer sites - especially the two cities on/next to gold
hills) as they will be less corrupt.
BTW, Remember to abolish the lux tax and make sure our cities
are happy once the archer returns to Edrine.

P.S. Is it just me, or does Notepad make the lines shorter (and thus the length of the post longer) and double space? I had to delete a lot of empty space lines to keep the post legible and (more) compact.

I got it. Will play later today and post.

Looks straight forward for my round. Oversee barrack construction and get that settler over to iron/tundra island.

One question: Is it worth holding off on founding the tundra city and send that settler in the galley and try to grab the horse after dropping off the iron settler?

I would build settlers and try and snag as many of Yom's dots as possible. They won't be available for too long since most of the world can get to them now.

Edit - @ Yom - I like your dot map BTW.

Roster

Denyd
Scout
Yom - Just played
DJM Gator – Up
Bugs - On Deck

@Bugsy: Thanks.

@DJMGator: If you mean found the Iron city and then the Horse city, then yes. That was my intention. I would build the Horse and Iron city first and then the 2 Northern tundra cities (the 2 cities with gold hills). The other cities on Horse island are mainly fillers (most likely 1/1 unless we go commie) if the AI is slow to settle them.

If the AI grabs them, you know there is a hidden resource there.

If the AI grabs them, you know there is a hidden resource there.But is is saltpeter, or oil? :mischief:

The tundra cities + our desert will give us a high probability of having oil though ;).

As for going on the offensive, I think we should hold off until knights. We can't upgrade any of our units, so they have to be able to hold their own for some time. Archers will be useless with pikeman showing up soon, and Swordsmen will suffer just as many casualties. I say we build the Iron/Horse cities, start on a harbor (and ship a worker over to Iron city), and cash rush the Harbors the instant we get into Republic (or at least the instant we can rush them and have Chivalry).

Edit: Btw, we may want to pop a settler out of Edrine once it hits size 5/6. It has some unhappiness problems and can help us settle the islands off our coast.

@DJMGator: If you mean found the Iron city and then the Horse city, then yes. That was my intention. I would build the Horse and Iron city first and then the 2 Northern tundra cities (the 2 cities with gold hills). The other cities on Horse island are mainly fillers (most likely 1/1 unless we go commie) if the AI is slow to settle them.

Actually I was referring to our southern settler who is currently standing on the tundra tile to found a city. If we put him on the galley with the other settler we could probably grab both iron & horse cities in the next 10 or so turns.

Using that settler right now on the iron or horses is probably the best idea.

We don't have a galley yet is the problem...

I'm playing my round of turns and I have hit a situation which I think needs a team decision. On my 4th turn I was able to buy LIT and do some trading, netted 3 more techs and 49 gold. My question is should we set sci to 0% for awhile, make 20 gpt and just buy techs? I am posting my turn report so you know where we stand. We are still way behind in techs with everyone except China who has been nice enough to build the Pyramids for us.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Preturn check -1000BC
sci was on 0% & no scientist - set to 10%
We are down MATH, HBR & MYST to all known civs
also down REP to PORT
Since we have nothing to trade other than gold I do not acquire any of these. They will come down in price
when we find the KOR

IBT - na

Turn 1 - 975BC
Antalya calms down
settler N / redline curragh (Big Red) NE NE / Argo E SE / Worker2 roads / Cam NW / Ann & Deb road
Bev & Edith SE to cow / curragh3 (Essex) N N
Sci to 70% REP in 38 vrs 47 +0gpt

IBT - na

Turn2 - 950BC
Izmit archer => settler
wake Odin in Izmit send SW S S / wake Herc in Istan and send him S SE S to Edrine ( trying to lower lux rate to 10%)
Cam mines / Essex N N / Big Red N NW / Argo E E / Edith & Bev road / Ann & Deb SE and mine cow / settler N

IBT - Beijing completes Pyramids

Turn3 - 925BC
Antalya worker => barracks
Odin SE forts in Istan / Herc S forts in Edrine / Essex N N / Big Red NE N / Argo E NE spies KOR
Worker2 SW SW / Edith & Bev mine / settler N / Fanny NE mines / Ann NW mines / Deb SE
lux down to 10% / sci to 80% REP in 33 vrs 36 and we're +1gpt

contact KOR: 12 cities, 95gold, dyes & ivory, up MYST, MATH & HBR
Can buy HBR for 111 or MATH for 156 from CART, CHN or KOR
Do not trade yet price wont change and I don’t want to buy HBR if we miss out on horse city.

IBT - PORT & BYZ learn Literature / KOR learns REP

Turn4 - 900BC
Istanbul settler => settler

TRADES:
PORT & BYZ will sell LIT for 184gold - I buy from BYZ since they have a smaller treasury
CART offer MATH, HBR & 76 gold for LIT - I agree
CHN offers MYST & 60gold for LIT - I agree
KOR offers 97 gold (all their money) for LIT - since BYZ have it I sell to KOR

We acquire 4 techs and net 49 gold.

Tech Assessment
CART are up CONST
CHN is even
BYZ are up POLY, CURR, REP & CONST
KOR are up REP
PORT are up POLY, CURR & REP
Do we continue to research or should we set sci to 0% and pull in 20gpt and start buying techs?

Aw man... I thought for a minute there that you'd gone and declared war on the whole planet or something... too bad we're not in good enough shape for "pointy stick research".

Aw man... I thought for a minute there that you'd gone and declared war on the whole planet or something... too bad we're not in good enough shape for "pointy stick research".

We're getting closer to that "point" with CHN & CART.

BTW, KOR is in the lead by score, BYZ are in the lead by techs.

I wouldn't declare war any time soon. Knights seem to be the best time to declare. Too bad we can't upgrade them to sihapi, but them's the rules.

I think we're doing just fine trading. I don't know why you upped research in the first place. Republic is insanely expensive.

OTOH, Libraries are cheap and we could build them in every city and research and trade rather than go straight gold. I would wait until we get libraries in every city and we're in the MA/tech parity before researching

BTW, any chance of getting Currency from the Portuguese? There's a very nice trade to be had if we have enough gold. Currency from portugal. Currency + gold to Carthage for Construction. Construction to Portugal for Polytheism + gold. Polytheism, Construction, Currency (and maybe a little gold) to Korea for Republic and BAM! We're at Tech parity.

The same could be done buying Construction from Carthage and then trading for Currency (Construction is more expensive).

I think we're doing just fine trading. I don't know why you upped research in the first place. Republic is insanely expensive.

I upped it because at 10% it was taking 47 turns to get and no one else on our continent had it yet. Was trying to get it for trading purposes. (BTW critiques of my play are always welcomed and even encouraged. It's the only way to learn. :) )


BTW, any chance of getting Currency from the Portuguese? There's a very nice trade to be had if we have enough gold. Currency from portugal. Currency + gold to Carthage for Construction. Construction to Portugal for Polytheism + gold. Polytheism, Construction, Currency (and maybe a little gold) to Korea for Republic and BAM! We're at Tech parity.

The same could be done buying Construction from Carthage and then trading for Currency (Construction is more expensive).

Currently we do not have enough money, that's why I posted my question. Since it look likes we need to be trading to maintain techs, if we stop researching for awhile we can hopefully buy a Monopoly tech and sell it around like I did with LIT.

I would run either 0% science or lone scientist in a corrupt city. Cash will be king for us for quite a while.

Turn 4 - 900BC continues

Set sci to10% until I can reassign a citizen to scientist - REP in 44 +20gpt

With GPT available we now have enough to trade for CURR from PORT

2nd Round of trading for this turn:
268gold (all our money) & 8 gpt to PORT for CURR
CURR to CART for CONST & 114 gold (all their money)
CONST to PORT for POLY & 108 gold
WE ENTER THE MIDDLE AGES AND ACQUIRE FEUDALISM (BYZ got ENGIN)
CURR to CHN for 305 gold (all their money)
CONST & CURR to KOR for REP
FEUD to BYZ for ENGIN & 240 gold (all their money)
FEUD to PORT for 447 gold & 3 gpt (all their money)

Istan settler S SE S / worker2 irr / Edith & Bev SE / Deb roads / other Setller NE N NE / Essex SW SW / Big Red E SE / Argo N N / we now have a Bgalley NE of our bottom tundra tile so I move the archer W out of Uskudar

I do not revolt this turn because galley wont be ready until next turn.

So ends Turn4
We pick up 6 more techs in 2nd round of trading and end the turn having acquired 10 techs and in the MA. We now have a tech lead on everyone and all the money in the world.
Sci set to 10% MONOT in 50 +15gpt & our Treasury is now 1214gold.

IBT - na

Turn5 875BC
Edrine galley => harbor
Uskudar roits (oops, forgot to check after moving archer, too worried about our workers and a Barb uprising having entered MA)

Archer S (there is a Bcamp there / Ann & Fanny E E SE / Edith & Bev mine / settler S other Settler N both load onto galley E S S / Essex SW SW / Big Red SE E / Argo N NE
Revolt - damn 7 turns reset cities for anarchy

IBT - Bgalley moves towards our galley

Turn6 - 850BC
forgot to assign a scientist last turn do it now
Oh ****e :eek: the Bcamp has 18 barbs in it and we have 4 workers and 1 archer in that area
Wake Herc & a warrior from Edrine move them S SW S / stop Edith & Bev from mining and move them E / Ann & Fanny NW / galley E NE N / Essex SW S try to block for galley / Big Red NE N / Argo NE E / Archer forts in front on Bcamp if road completes at EOT then the 2 warriors can join the archer

IBT - no barbs out of camp / Bgalley attacks Essex which is redlined but survives

Turn7 - 825BC
Herc & warrior S W road was not done / Ann & Fanny N NE start irr / Edith & Bev N N NE / Essex S S / Galley NE E SE / Big red NE waits / Argo NE NE /

IBT - na

Turn8 - 800BC
Edith & Bev irr / Deb mines / Herc & warrior S join with archer / Esex S S / Galley S S S / Big red NW NW (looking for bcamps since are settlers are unescorted) / Argo E SE

IBT - CHN demands CONST - I give it

Turn9 - 775BC
Fort Herc & warrior with archer / Essex S N / galley S SW drop off settler then NE / Big Red NW SE / Argo E S

IBT

Turn 10 - 750BC
Worker2 roads / Ann & Bev N N N / Edith & Fanny NE / settler SW now on red dot for Iron city / galley NE NE E / Big Red SE S / Argo S S / Essex waits

Notes for next player:
Iron city is ready to found. Galley with settler is almost to Horse city spot. We have 2 turns of anarchy left and 18 barbs sitting on our southernmost point. They have been there since turn 4 and have not attacked yet.

The other civs have learned a few of our techs but they had no money to trade for so no big loss.

THE 750BC SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugs20_750BC.SAV)

The barb situation
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugs20_03.jpg

Galley to Horse City
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugs20_04.jpg

Nice turnset DJMGator13 - Excellent tech trading :thumbsup:

I'm not sure what the barb setting was, it might be sendantary, which would explain why they haven't moved. I suggest we get a couple of pikemen down their as soon as we can get iron connected. Once we have horses & iron hooked up, they might be excellent training ground for our veteran knights to earn a few promotions.

Good turns, looks like I overestimated the price of trading for Republic and Construction.

May I ask, though, why is there a barb camp on that square? I just cleared one there and it shouldn't have popped up if there was no fog of war on that square.

The reason the barbs aren't moving isn't because they are sedentary (at least I don't think). It's because they're broken in C3C. They only attack on the NW-SE axis (I think that's the one) and so can't go anywhere with the only land tile being on the N-S axis.

The reason the barbs aren't moving isn't because they are sedentary (at least I don't think). It's because they're broken in C3C. They only attack on the NW-SE axis (I think that's the one) and so can't go anywhere with the only land tile being on the N-S axis.Where did you read that? It doesn't seem consistent with some (ugh) recent experiences I had with barbs in another SG (also [c3c]1.22f). IIRC, I was attacked from NE to SW and from E to W. It seems that in another game I played the barbs behaved in similar fashion; stacks of horses not moving from camp.

May I ask, though, why is there a barb camp on that square? I just cleared one there and it shouldn't have popped up if there was no fog of war on that square.


When I moved that settler to go after the horse & iron cities I missed that the very tip was shadowed. Could have avoided the camp by simply moving a worker there before all the trading in turn 4. But when I started the trading I had no idea we would end up with 10 techs and in the MA.

@Scout & Bugs - I think we just found another nice trading exercise to post in our GK2.2 trading exercise.

Here's the 900BC Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugs20_900BC.SAV) if anyone want to replay the trades.

Excellent work Gator. I've got it. I'll have the game posted by tomorrow afternoon.

Pre-flight – 750 BC – Anarchy – Things look ok.

1. 730 BC – Found Iron City. Install Joe Grushecky as governor and the Houserockers as city council. Start a warrior. Whack some barbs down at that camp.

IBT – The Ottoman Republic is born.

2. 710 BC – Lux goes to 20%, run lone scientist.

IBT – Korea starts Sun Tzu’s

3. 690 BC – The Byzantines have settled two cities on horse island. We found Pondarosa claiming the horses. Hoss Cartwright is the governor. Start a warrior.

IBT – Iznik: Barracks=>archer

4. 670 BC – Portugal has Monarchy for sale. No thanks. Can I rush a build in this variant? Go back to the thread and read what I wrote. :rolleyes: I can rush, I just can’t upgrade. Spend 208G rushing a harbor in Edrine.

IBT – Edrine: harbor=>settler
Bursa: barracks=>archer
Koreans complete Zeus.

5. 650 BC - :sleep:

IBT - Izmet: settler=>archer

6. 630 BC – Lux goes to 30% for growth.

IBT – Chinese build the Lighthouse.

7. 610 BC - :sleep:
8. 590 BC – Lose a warrior whacking barbs. The archer promotes.

IBT – The Portuguese are going to grab a spot on Iron Island.
Istanbul: settler=>archer
A curragh sinks crossing over to Byzantine waters.

9. 570 BC – Hurry three archers and a warrior.

IBT – Bursa, Iznik, Izmit: archer=> archer
Uskadar: Spear=>barracks
Pondarosa: warrior=>worker

10. 550 BC – Change the lone scientist to Pondarosa.

After Action – Pretty Boring stuff. Build up an archer force for a rush on Northern China.

Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugs20,_550_BC.SAV

Roster:
Denyd – Up
Scout - On Deck
Yom
DJM Gator
Bugs - Just played

Good turns. I guess we're still going for an archer rush?

Good job getting us iron and horses Bugsy! All I got us was some desert and a cow....

It is still going to be a bit before we have iron and horses. I felt we needed to build some kind of military, so I went with archers. We can't upgrade anything so we will want to switch over to swords and horses as soon as we can.

It is still going to be a bit before we have iron and horses. I felt we needed to build some kind of military, so I went with archers. We can't upgrade anything so we will want to switch over to swords and horses as soon as we can.Archers are good as far as I'm concerned. I think they're much improved over their vanilla counterparts. The defensive bombard matters more with these ancient age units.... Even in groups of 2-3, they can be used effectively.

When we get everything hooked up, stacks of archers/swords/horses might be nasty... horses can knock a HP or two off, while swords/archers finish off the defenders...

I think Knights will be our main offensive units, considering that they're only 2 techs away.

Tracking the order-of-go here... am I 'on deck' after denyd? This one confuses me... 'cause I'm in one or 2 other SG's with denyd....and I think he follows me in another...

Sorry for the delay - I got it and will play tonight

Had some problems either with the CFC Server or my ISP (probably) so I had to wait until now to post results:

THE SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugs20,_350_BC.SAV)


Turn 0 – 550 BC – All looks pretty good – continuing with Archer rush plans – not sure where the settler is bound for – I’ll try to get out Vet Archers promoted to elites on those Barbarian horse (BH)

IBT – Edrine Settler->Settler

Turn 1 – 530 BC – Hawkeye (vet Archer) heading to Barbarian Village (BV) – Orion (vet Archer) also heading to BV – Robin (vet Archer) is the first to setup for attack on China – Hood (vet Archer) (2/4) kills BH – Settler heading for NE coast to setup village – Galley picks up second settler – curraghs explore – Three now have invention

IBT: Foot races with Carthage for that last coastal spot – Iron City Warrior->Worker

Turn 2 – 510 BC – Hood rests – Brute (warrior) MP in Iron City – Archers in motion – curraghs explore – Galley moves settlers to spots

IBT: Byzantine start Great Library

Turn 3 – 490 BC – Settler reaches spot but need swamp drained before he can settle – 3 workers sent to drain swamp – curraghs explore – Hood (3/4) kills BH – Spend 43g to build an Embassy in Lisbon (has temple, harbor, Colossus, Oracle and Great Library in 8 – defended by 6 spears – making 11spt – no resources – spend 497g on a immediate steal (they are our equal in military and a long way away) and get Invention

IBT: A Portuguese galley shows up on the eastern coast – Korea starts Leo’s – China starts Temple of Artemis

Turn 4 – 470 BC – Settler founds Kafa (future fishing village) starts warrior – By the way all our Archer builds are now longbow builds (automatic switch) – Hood (2/4) kills BH – Taxman hired in Iznik

IBT: Settler/Worker blockade convince Cartage to recall settler – Constantinople builds Temple of Artemis

Turn 5 – 450 BC – Ann & Bev start to clear wetlands – curraghs explore – Galley with settler heading to drop off at point once BV is gone – Hawkeye (2/4) kills BH – Hood rests – Orion (1/4) kills BH still one left – Carthage needs Engineering – so trade Engineering to Carthage for 8g & wines

IBT: Korea starts Hanging Gardens

Turn 6 – 430 BC – Hawkeye rests – Orion rests – Hood (3/4) kills BH and sacks BV ( +25g) – settler moving toward spot – workers move to connect new city – Antalya gets a taxman

IBT: curragh watches a pair of Carthage settlers heading north – Istanbul LongBow->Marketplace (why were we building units in cities without barracks) – Beijing builds Great Library

Turn 7 – William (Longbow) moving to rally point – Settler will reach site next turn – workers move to connect future site – archer sent to rally point – Trade Engineering to China for spices + 26g

IBT: Just a Portuguese galley roaming about

Turn 8 – 390 BC – Settler reaches spot – Archers moving – Whack waiting for settler

IBT: Theodora demands 49g and I give in (she’s got more military than us and can reach our horse city – Byzantine warrior approaching horse city - Chinese settler going south – Bursa longbow–>longbow – Aydin barracks->Longbow

Turn 9 – 370 BC – Tell (Vet LB) moves to Rally point – Settler founds Ankara starts Trebuchet – Whack MP in Ankara – archers on the move – Curraghs explore – galley waiting for settler

IBT: A lot of Chinese spearmen & settlers heading south towards Beijing – Edrine settler->Longbow – Izmit Longbow->Spearman – Ponderosa worker->harbor

Turn 10 – 350 BC – Odysseus (LB) moving to rally point – Settler founds Salonika starts trebuchet – settler jumps on galley – curraghs explore

The good news is that we’re even on tech – the bad news is we are weak against everyone except China (average) – so far 2 LB & 3 Archers at rally point and 1 of each on the way – We need some defenders in our cities

All things considered, not a turnset I'll write home about. I'm concerned we'll be shooting arrows at muskets soon. This is going to be a diffiicult one to win.

Edit: I'm the guy naming our units and I do it so the turn log is a little easier to do. Once we get to 50+ units, I normally stop unless the unit does something special.

Good turns, but why did you steal invention and trade Engineering for so cheap? Carthage only knows us and Byzantine and China only knows us and China, so you sold it to them at 3rd and 2nd for just a luxury. Do we need luxuries that bad? Also, stealing techs isn't really profitable before Espionage and the Industrial age. Stealing with a diplomat is much more likely to fail and would have wasted 500 gold and started a war. I wouldn't steal any more until we get Espionage or an AI starts to run away with the game.

The invention steal was because there was no real threat if I failed and 400g is a cheap price for that tech. I wanted to try and keep us as close to current in techs. With our small land and city count, we''ll have trouble supporting a large military and not being able to upgrade them, means we need to build new units ASAP. Your point about embassy steals is well taken, but I'm not sure we'll be able to keep up on techs at just a single scientist pace. If we can take Beijing, the Great Library will give us a short breather on research, but until the entire island is secure, we run the risk of getting run over by Carthagian knights.

The reason for the deal of Engineering to China was that since Carthage and we both new the tech and China had just completed the Great Library, they were about to get it for nothing. Also Portugal has a galley circling the island and was about to reach China. The early deal with Carthage for engineering was to get an additional luxury. We had 3 cities about to riot and it was going to take 50% luxuries to prevent that. Adding the 2 luxuries will let us run at 10-20% luxuries until we can get some marketplaces on line.

I'll wait for some thoughts from the team before I play this... suggestions/priorities would be appreciated. Should I try to set us for a wartime footing? It looks like we need to prepare for war against China soon...

We need to be on a war footing. China is the target. Without upgrades, our forces will be mixed.

Scoutsout: We've got 4 Archers & 3 LB available right now, we'll probably need a couple more LB before starting and a couple of Spearmen to defend the border cities and the SOD.

Set us up for a slugfest. Got it.

Pre-flight check:

Changing the tax collector to a scientist in Bursa takes Monotheism to 25 turns from never.
We have 4 completely undefended cities in our homeland.
Rush the Rax in Uskadar for 40g.
MM a citizen to forest in Iznik (2 happy, 1 content, 1 unhappy) takes city to 5spt after corruption. Should kick out longwows in 8t. Cash rush the last 2 turns off longbow for 24g.
Tile-swap Antalya and Uskadar to get another shield in Analya. Fire clown in Uskadar, hire tax collector. Put a citizen on irrigated plains in Aydin to speed growth.

IBT - Iznik Longbow>Longbow | Uskadar Rax>Spear | Antalaya Rax>Spear
Carthage building Hanging Gardens

Turn 1 (330)
Do a little mining, move a longbow or two in the general direction of China.
MM Istantbul to slow growth and speed Market build.

IBT - Iron City riots, Byzantines start Leo's

Turn 2 (310) Wake Tell (LB), send Tell and Hood (A) towards China.
MM citizen on mined grass in Uskadar shaves 3 turns off spear build. Sail the ships (I have no idea where to put this settler...)

IBT - Horses connected to Pondarosa. Wang Kon complains about a passing Curraugh, Chinese building Sun Tzu. The Essex sinks in a suicide run.

Turn 3 (290) Worker moves...sail our navy...

IBT - Izmit Spear>Longbow Kafa Warrior>Harbor

Turn 4 (270)
Cash rush spears in Antalya (44g) and Uskadar (48g) some worker moves, drop the settler off in our lands for possible raze and replace operations.

IBT - Bursa Longbow>Longbow | Uskadar Spear>Spear | Antalya Spear>Spear

Turn 5 (250) Some worker moves, positioning troops, rush the market in Istanbul for 198g.

IBT - Istanbul Market>Rax | Antalya riots (sorry team)

Turn 6 (230) Portugal and Korea have gunpowder.

IBT - Henry demands 39 gold. Because I'm not particularly fond of Henry these days, I tell him to pack sand, and he does.

Turn 7 (210) worker moves, troop movements... I conduct an investigation of Beijing.
1 iron, Temple due in 4, starvation diet, 4 spears, 2 settler pairs. Has a harbor.

IBT - Portugese complete Hanging Gardens.

Turn 8 (190)
Rush a longbow in Bursa, move some troops into position...

IBT - Hannibal offers us Monarchy for Invention and 270g
Bursa Longbow>Spear | Iznik Longbow>Spear

Turn 9 (170) I have 5 Longbows poised outside China's borders...and have constructed an "alternate road"...

Rush the longbow in Aydin for 40g, wake sting in Iznik and send him to the rally point. Rush the Rax in Istanbul for 76g.

IBT - Istanbul Rax>Longbow | Aydin Longbow>Spear

Turn 10 - put a spear on the mountain that 4 workers are mining near Istanbul.
Cash rush a spear in Bursa for 60g, and another in Iznik for 60g

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugs2_150BC_SCHEME.jpg

I'll make this after action review short:

I spent some of our cash. It's "Go Time". Here's > > The Save < < (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugs2_150_BC.SAV)

Roster

Denyd
Scout - Just played
Yom – Up
DJM Gator - On Deck
Bugs

I should have mentioned this - I don't think pillaging that tile will be taken as an act of war....but we should probably declare before pillaging and moving troops in to avoid a rep hit...

Pillaging neutral tiles doesn't give a rep hit, but why do we want to pillage a tile that will eventually come under Iznik's 21?

Pillaging neutral tiles doesn't give a rep hit, but why do we want to pillage a tile that will eventually come under Iznik's 21?In order to cut the land route between Beijing and any other chinese city. At the very least, it will cut the lux going to Beijing and slow down any counterattack/reinforcements.

It's a really minor move, I know, but we need every edge we can get....

I think it also cuts the iron flow to the northern Chinese cities, so no new pikemen once the road is cut. Hopefully we can take those northern cities before muskets start showing up (all that desert might finally be of use).

The chinese do have a harbor up the coast, so I don't think it will cut the iron supply to those cities... but taking Beijing would. I think I put just enough there to take it.

Pillaging that road gives a very minor tactical advantage... it would slow down any chinese units that are sent to overtake our stack...but it might be just enough to keep any chinese units from closing with our stack before they close on Beijing. The side road that I constructed would maintain connectivity once Beijing is taken, and allow us to attack any stacks sent to chase our stack...

I did a quick investigation of Beijing during my turns. Mao was building a temple, I noted no barracks, and it was defended by spears.

I'll admit, this archer/longbow rush is a little dicey...but I don't see us out-building the AI at this level to gather strength. Let's use the archers while they've still got some potential use...

Perhaps that northern stack should be pulled to the halfway point between Bursa and Iznik to counter any counterattacks aimed at those cities.

I pretty much played those turns with a goal of getting us on a war-footing as quickly as possible. Istanbul now has a market and a barracks, with some workers mining a mountain that ought to help the shield production there...I don't see the need to build anything but units there for the forseeable future.

Edit: Assessment of Beijing in Turn 7.

Turn 0 - I swap Istanbul to a spearman (no shields in the bin).
Bursa's spearman will be better used defending our 3 archers and
1 longbowman in their attack vs. Canton. Our military is strong
vs. the Chinese, though.

IBT - Bursa:Spearman->Longbowman
Iznik:Spearman->Longbowman
Izmit:Longbowman->Longbowman
Lagos completes The Great Wall

Turn 1 - Pillage the road. Seeing as our army is stronger than
China's, I demand their 10 gold and get it. Hmm...There is still 6
turns left on a deal involving them giving us spices. If I declare
war, does our rep get ruined? I don't think so, but I do a test to
make sure and our rep stays clean.
6 Longbowmen, 2 archers and 1 spearman head for Bejing.
2 Longbowmen, 3 archers and 1 spearman move next to canton
and are unfortunately met by a regular pike.

IBT - A chinese galley appears in the south. Not good.
Istanbul riots :smoke: Ack! Bursa does too, must be WW (pretty
early, but our cities were already on the edge of a riot).
(Edit: It was the loss of Spices from china, stupid me.)
Iznik has to be MMed to avoid a riot as well.
Uskudar:Spearman->Temple
Lisbon completes Sun Tzu's

Turn 2 - The Bejing party approaches Bejing and is happy to find a
regular spearman.
Vet Longbowman vs. 3/3 pikeman wins, but is redlined.
Another Pikeman is under it, so I will wait before Assaulting
Canton. It's hard to understand why it's defended better than the
capital. I up the lux tax to 20% but I still have to hire some
taxmen. Surprisingly, the unhappy people don't show War
Weariness to be a factor.

IBT - Antalya:Spearman->Longbowman
An Archer and Warrior appear out of Canton, which gets a veteran
Pikeman (it won't fall any time soon).

Turn 3 - Bah, Bejing got a pikeman in it (regular and unfortified).
Vet Longbowman vs. reg pike wins, -1 hp
Vet Longbowman vs. reg spear wins, -2hp and promotes
Vet Longbowman vs. reg spear loses (the spear loses 1 hp). We
mourn the loss of odysseus.
Vet Longbowman vs. reg spear wins flawlessly.
Vet Longbowman vs. reg spear wins flawlessly.
Vet Longbowman vs. 2/3 spear loses and we mourn the loss of
Tell! What an evil name-killing spear (now 2/4
Vet Hood(archer) vs. 2/4 spear loses! The spear is 2/5 what a
monster! It is now up to Sting to kill the evil spearman.
Reg Sting (archer) vs. 2/5 spear loses flawlessly....what a disgrace,
we lost 4 units to that spear and it is still 2/5. At least we have 2
unhurt longbowmen that can try next turn.
Reg Longbowman vs. 4/4 Warrior wins, -1 hp
Vet Archer vs. 3/3 Archer wins flawlessly.
Vet Archer vs. 3/3 Archer wins flawelessly.

IBT - Our archer is slain by a longbowman.
Istanbul:Spearman->Longbowman (MMed to 10 spt)
Seoul completes Knights Templar

Turn 4 - Vet Longbowman vs. 4/5 spearman wins flawlessly, takes
the city with The Great Library and 2 settlers. Canton is the new
capital.
Vet Archer vs. 2/3 Longbowman wins flawlessly.
We will get Monotheism, Gunpowder Monarchy, Chivalry, and
Theology next turn so I change the scientist to a taxman.

IBT - We learn the aforementioned techs.
Edrine:Longbowman->Longbowman
Kafa riots (fishing village colony).

Turn 5 - We have saltpeter hooked up by Istanbul and another
source not hooked up by Kafa.
Our wines deal ran out and we desperately need them, so I buy
them back for 11 gpt.

IBT - Nothing

Turn 6 - I leave Bejing empty to take Shanghai. If it flips during
the 2 turns in which it is empty, we can easily take it back.

IBT - We lose a spearman to a Chinese longbowman
Izmit:Longbowman->Longbowman
Aydin:Spearman->Longbowman

Turn 7 - I hurry the Temple in Uskudar for 180 gold. It will bring
7 land tiles into our borders, so it's well worth it. We will take
Shanghai next turn and Assault Canton in 3 turns.

IBT - The Chinese offer peace and drop a warrior by Bejing. I just
moved a spearman into the city last turn so we won't lose control
of it.
Istanbul:Longbowman->Longbowman
Bursa:Longbowman->Longbowman.
Uskudar:Temple->Longbowman

Turn 8 - Vet Longbowman vs. reg spearman wins, -2hp and
promotes.
Elite Longbowman vs. vet spearman wins, -3hp but no leader and
we take Shanghai. we still have 2 longbowmen left and 1 more
city in the tundra, so I advance them, hopefully to take the city
next turn. The city is Nanking.
Vet Longbowman vs. 2/4 Longbowman wins flawlessly.

IBT - The warrior chooses to pillage rather than attack the
spearman in Beijing.
A longbowman redlines our spearman defending our troops
outside canton before dying.

Turn 9 - Vet Longbowman vs. reg spearman wins, -2hp.
Vet Longbowman vs. reg spearman wins flawlessly. There is still
1 spearman and 1 longbowman left in Nanking. Our 3/5
Longbowman will join the attack in hopes of getting a leader vs.
the longbowman. We have 7 Longbowmen, 2 Archers and 1
spearman outside of Canton. We will attack next turn. There is at
least 1 Veteran pikeman and 1 regular pikeman in the town.

IBT - Our longbowman defends against a longbowman and goes
elite, -1hp.
We learn printing press and Chemistry from TGL.
2/4 Longbowman vs. reg spearman loses and promotes the
spearman (3/4).
4/5 Longbowman vs. reg spearman wins, -3 hp and takes the city
along with the Great Lighthouse. No leader though.
I send our 4/5 Longbowman to Beijing to try to get a leader from
the Vet warrior outside its walls.
Shanghai is set to a starvation diet. All the chinese cities are on
workers (save pop 2 Shanghai) to starve them). I check via f4 and
China has no iron, so we can prosecute the war in the north on
our terms.

Now for the Attack of Canton.

Vet Longbowman vs. 4/4 Pikeman loses flawlessly.
Vet Longbowman vs. 4/4 Pikeman wins, -2 hp.
Vet Longbowman vs. 4/4 Pikeman loses (1/4)
Vet Longbowman vs. 4/4 Pikeman loses (1/4)
Vet Longbowman vs. 3/3 Pikeman wins. -2 hp.
Archer vs. 4/4 Longbowman wins, - 1hp.
Vet Longbowman vs. 1/4 Pikeman LOSES and promotes!
Vet Archer vs. 2/5 Pikeman wins, -1 hp.
Reg Longbowman vs. 1/4 Pikeman wins and razes the city. The
capital jumps to Tsingtao. I move the 1/4 Spearman to the future
city site (same location as old Canton) so that it can gain health
and defend the city. I move Achilles and fezzik (warriors) from
Bursa to the same tile to defend the settler pair in case it gets
attacked (it is 3 tiles from Chengdu.

The attack force (or what's left of it) is safe for now as it is 4 tiles
from Chengdu and the Chinese lack horses. Next turn we will
have our own source of spices and our happiness troubles will
diminish. I would rush the harbor in the Horse city now that we
have iron. We can then build Knights to take care of the Chinese
and won't have to worry about defense (since we can't build
spearmen anymore and Musketmen are too damn expensive). I
would build another city in between Beijing and Iznik. There are 5
wasted tiles there (6 if you include the Plain 2 S of Tsingtao). A
city on the forest or in the desert 1 S, 1 SW would be good. Now
that we have TGL we can trade luxuries with the 3 overseas
powers. Lux for Lux (we have 2 new sources of Silks thanks to
Shanghai and Nanking) is doubtful, but we only need to throw in 2
gpt and 4 gold for a lux from Korea or 3 gpt for a lux + 4 gold
from Portugal. Either way, it's a good deal. Don't forget to buy
luxuries in bulk so that the cost doesn't go up (8th luxury is much
more expensive than 1st, but buying 8 luxuries when you have 0 is
like buying 1st luxury 8 times).

As for the war with China, I would continue it until we take all of
their nearby cities. They can't hurt us with just 3 core cities and
they can't build anymore pikeman without iron. I would take about
5 Longbowmen and the 2 archers for every offensive though.
Chengdu is most likely the next target as it gains us another spice,
followed by Tsingtao and then Xinjian. At that point I would make
peace for Macao (northern colony with Iron) and anything else we
can get. Don't forget to starve down every city you take. I would
raze all cities from now on with the exception of Xinjian. Its city
site will be covered by Carthaginian culture if we raze it. Then
again, we may want to relocate it 1 SE to lower the chance of a
flip.

Looks like some good turns Yom.

Your after action plan of attack sounds good. A look at the F4 screen shows China still with 10 cities, but only 4 are visible.

I'll wait to see if there are any other thoughts before I play.

WooHoo! [dance] We hammered China!

Nice job Yom! :thumbsup:

I was nervous about this turnset, because I know I stretched things pretty tight just to get us to this point, but you played it nicely!

Yom, brillantly executed campaign.

I imagine China has cities to the southwest in the fog. I would try and gain control of all cities to our north.

There is an Island West of Beijing and Shanghai. I would just leave it alone and get it in the peace treaty.

Yes - if the rest of China's cities are offshore, we need to sue for peace once we've grabbed the Chinese territory on our continent... Now that we've got Feudalism we can start building some MDI and set our sights on Carthage... spices, iron, and Great Library makes a nice coup if we can keep it all...

Great Library came with Beijing

I agree completly about Carthage. MDI & knights (once horses are available) should be able to do the job there.

We should probably think about disbanding some warriors and archers (non-elite of course) once the MDI are being produced or else the support costs under Republic will get too expensive.

Great Library came with Beijing I knew that... having it is one thing, keeping it might be another...We should probably think about disbanding some warriors and archers (non-elite of course) once the MDI are being produced or else the support costs under Republic will get too expensive.Agree on the warriors, disagree on the archers... at least until after we deal with Carthage. The defensive bombard in C3C makes it worth keeping a few archers around a little longer IMO.

Good point on defensive bombard - We'll need to evaluate the number of archers kept based on the number of longbows in a stack.

I'll be out of touch from later today (about 8 hours from now) until Sunday evening. My wife and I are taking our son to Legoland, San Diego Zoo & Marine World. See you all on Sunday.

Have fun with the family, that's why a haven't played yet. My 3 year old niece is in constant motion. I'll play and post today.

I'll be away on a trip starting tomorrow, 7/16, and won't be back until 7/23 or later. Since I'm not exactly sure how long the trip will last, I'll let you know when I'm back. I won't have computer access most of the time, so I won't be able to take part in a lot of the discussion.

Preturn - 50AD
Trade silks, 4 gold & 2 gpt to KOR for Dyes
Rush Harbor in Pondarosa for 164 gold

IBT
CHN MI attacks settler group and is defeated

Turn 1 - 70AD
Pondarosa harbor => MI
William attacks NE to warrior
Settler founds Mugla (on old Canton site) set to barracks
A 4/5 elite Longbow inflicts 2hp of damage on a vet warrior before losing 4 straight and dies
Disband Argo - since coastline map is complete and we can't upgrade her

IBT - PORT, KOR & BYZ all have Education - we will get it next turn

Turn2 - 90AD
Istanbul Longbow => Knight
Izmit Longbow => knight
Trade silks and 75gold to PORT for Incense (gives us a 5th lux)
Lux down to 10% - fired some IRS guys told them to go get a real job
Main force still healing in Mugla

IBT - We learn Education

Turn3 - 110AD
Bursa longbow=> knight
Iron City worker => temple
Career change for IRS guy to Sci - Metallurgy in 50 (Sci at 0%)
Main attack force is healed - move towards Chengdu

IBT - Thor dies while blocking the Killer warrior (was trying to slow him down so another elite bow could catch him)

Turn4 - 130AD
Beijing worker=> library - now at size 2 ( can't starve it any lower, because its still in resistance)
Edrine longbow=> knight
Elite LB catches elite killer warrior (3/5hp) attacks nd flawlessly takes it out (no promo)

Battle for Chengdu
vLB vs rPike - redlines but wins (no promo)
vLB vs rSpear - flawless vic (no promo)
William rLB vs rSpear - redlines buts wins (no promo)
Hawkeye vArcher vs rSpear - inflict 1hp of damage and dies
Robin vArcher vs 2/3 rSpear - redlines and captures Chengdu & 3 workers (I keep town or CART borders will swallow it) set to worker

Trade Spices & 45 gold to KOR for furs (6th lux)

IBT - na

Turn5 - 150AD
Iznik longbow => settler
Istanbul shoots off fireworks and we add 2 sections to our Palace
Hurry worker in Nanking (will take to size 1 next turn)
Move troops towards the Tsingtao Brewery

IBT - CART learned Mono (getting closer to knights)

Turn6 - 170AD
Nanking worker => library
Troops 1 step closer to Beer

IBT - CART move a NM into our territory looks like he maybe heading to Oea

Turn7 - 190AD
Troops can almost taste the Beer - Bar opens next turn

IBT - a redline Dromo sails by (war or barb?)

Turn8 - 210AD
Antalya longbow=> courthouse (in 40 vrs a knight in 35 - corruption is high)

Battle for the Brewery
vLB vs rPike - we die but redlines Pike who promos to vet now at 2/4
vLB vs rSpear - win down 2hp no promo
eLB vs 2/4 vPike - flawless vic no promo - we capture Tsingtao set to worker
CHN capital jumps to off continent location and single tile appears in minimap (see picture below)

IBT - PORT learns Metallurgy

Turn9 - 230AD
Aydin longbow => courthouse (losing half our shields to corruption)
Ankara trebuchet => harbor

IBT
CART complete Leos workshop for us - how nice since its completely useless to us in a no upgrade variant
KOR & BYZ both have Metallurgy - no one will trade it, however PORT will trade Ivory for 299gold (since turn 10 I do not make any trades)

Turn10 - 250AD
Istanbul knight => knight
Izmit knight => knight
Salonika Trebuchet => aqueduct

Battle for Xinjian
only 1 elite in position so I save him for last
vLB vs rPike - we die but redlines pike who promos to vet now at 2/4
vLB vs rSpear - we die inflicting 1 hp damage (no promo)
vLB vs rSpear - we die inflicting 1 hp damage (no promo)
vLB vs vPike 2/4 - victory at last
William rLB vs 2/3 rSpear - victory no promo
eLB vs 2/3 rSpear - victory no promo - captures Xinjian set to library for culture

***I stopped here since it was a good place to pause. There are a few troop movements left for this turn but they hinge an whether we are pushing forward with attack or consolidating our empire. (There may be a few worker moves also.)***

China will make peace and give us Macao, Chinan, Anyang & Tientsin (that’s 4 of their 7 cities) - since turn 10 I leave trade & peace to next player.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Notes to next player
Our first knights were produced this turn so they are not in position. I wasn't sure how quickly we were going after CART so I started some non-military builds. These are only 1 or 2 turns old so they can be changed. We have 6 lux but some of those deals will expire soon. Only PORT seemed to have more than 1 variety of lux to trade so renegotiating deals should not be too bad. China's new capital looks an awful lot like a 1 tile island or a penisula but its hard to tell with all the fog. I think we need to take the 4 city peace deal and gear up for the CARTS.

Not sure we need any more research. We have knights and are "strong" against everyone else and can reach them with galleys.

The 250AD Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugs20_250AD.SAV)

Our new front
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugs20_05.jpg

China's new capital
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bugs20_06.jpg

Yom & Gator laying some smack down on the Chinese! :hammer:

I think we should take the four cities and call it square.

I also think we should keep researching until we get Mil Tradition.

I'd say we're in a good position to take a war to Carthage. I will evaluate that and try to set up the next player for an assault.

Oh, BTW - Got it.

Denyd - On Deck
Scout
Yom
DJM Gator - Just played
Bugs – Up

I may not get this done right away, but I think Denyd is away until the 18th anyway. I should have it posted by Saturday evening. Any input is welcome as I won't get this played today.

I'm afraid I can't offer you much input Bugs. Thanks to Yom and Gator, this is no longer the same game that I last played.

Way to :hammer: 'em guys!

Oops, forgot I was up. I'll have it played by Sunday evening.

Oh goody, I'm up in one and Bugsy will be posting any minute now :wavey:

Shamu says hi to everyone and a special well done :hatsoff: to DJMGator13 for whomping on Mao.

It looks like Hannibal is next and then it'll be time for some infrastructure building and preparing for the Arrival of the Siphai.

For those interested, an army of 4 veteran Siphai will have stats of 11-4-4 and 16 hit points. That should walk over everything on the board until infantry arrives. (of course, we'll have to load the 4th unit in after transporting it to it's target).

Oops. I knew there was something I forgot to do this morning. Played this last night.

Pre-flight – 250 AD – Don’t want to take Macao in a peace treaty since it will be undefendable in a war with Carthage. So we take 12G, Anyang, Chinan, and Shantung from Mao for peace. I leave the builds in our new cities as spears.

I want to get some intel on Carthaginian lands so I take a spear and wander over the mountain. We now know where Carthage is located.

We really need a harbor in Iron City. No we don’t we have a source over in China.

Spend 60G on a settler out of Iznik.

We are weak compared to Carthage and Korea. Average to Byzantines and Portugal. Stronger than China.

IBT – Bursa: knight=>knight
Iznik: settler=>treb
Uskudar: LB=>Treb

1. 260 AD – Start formulating a campaign for Carthage. We’ll need a small force to move of the west coast, probably a force of LBs. Then a force of fast movers to take the east coast up to the choke point. A force of two knights to take Oea.
2. 270 AD – Found Denizli. Start a court.

IBT - Chengdu: worker =>barracks
Portuguese build the Sistine Chapel

3. 280 AD – Scout more of the Carthaginian coastline.
4. 290 AD – We now effectively have a complete map of Carthage.


IBT – Tsingtao: Worer=>court
Portugal and Byzantine have Astronomy. Sounds like a two-fer.

5. 300 AD – I buy Astronomy from Theodora for 37gpt & 647G. I then buy metallurgy from Korea for Astronomy, 9 gpt & 15g. Start on Mil Trad.

IBT – Our wine deal with Hannibal expires. I could get wines, a worker and 28G for Theology, but I figure we’ll be going to get our own source of wines within 20 turns :devil2:

The cave gets a third story.

6. 310 AD – Hire a tax man in Kafa

IBT – Istanbul: Knight=>settler
Edrine: knight=>knight
Izmit:knight=>knight

7. 320 AD – Well our attack force is growing. We now have 6 knights, 9 LB and 2 trebs.

Mugla: barracks=>cannon
Bursa: knight=> knight

8. 330 AD – Korea has banking but we don’t have any markets, so we couldn’t build any banks.
9. 340 AD – Hire a tax man in Bursa. Start sailing around China.

IBT – Istanbul: settler=>knight

10. 350 AD – Byzantines know banking too.

After Action Report – Settler should build one tile NW of where he stands. It will probably tick Hannibal off, but so what. Keep whacking at the jungle and marsh. We might actually have some nice land someday.

Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Bugs2,_350_AD.SAV

Looks like this is back to me - I got it - I'll probably be able to start on this tomorrow night (after I finish my set in Gram 1.0).

Any ideas on what's going on?

I remember China getting hammered and we're setting up for a Carthage campaign. Beyond that it's all a blur.

That's about it. I've been building knights. There is a force of longbows to work the west coast of Carthage. Probably need another 4-6 knights and you can have a force of knights for the east coast.

Scoutsout: You want to swap places this round? (I need to play SGOTM 3 tonight)

I can probably start on this tomorrow night if he can't pick it up.

Sorry for the delay, but I seemed to come up in all my SG's at the same time.

@Denyd: if it's all the same to you, I'd rather wait a day. I had a long day at work today, and would need a serious nap before I could get my game face on. :)

Hey denyd, do you still need a swap, or do you want to pick this up?

Scout why don't you grab it. Denyd can pick it up after you're done.

Alrighty then... got it.

Pre-flight check - not much

IBT - Korea wants to re-negotiate lux deal. Silks+10gpt for Korean Dyes.

Turn 1 (360)
Bolu founded, starts a Rax
Rush a spear in Shantung for 36g.

IBT - Shantung spear>harbor

Turn 2 (370)
Dial up Henry, and trade Iron for Military Tradition+5gpt.
Dial up Theodora, trade MT+25gpt+244g for Banking.

IBT - Henry wants to re-negotiate incense-silks trade. I add 10gpt.

Turn 3 (380) - just some worker moves

IBT - Iznik Cannon>Court

Turn 4 (390)

some worker moves...move some bombard units...

IBT - I have to add 7gpt to the furs deal with Korea. Mugla riots, gets a taxman.
Uskudar cannon>Court

Turn 5 (400)

Shuffle some bombard units...disband a couple of warriors to get some gpt coming back into the treasury.

IBT - :sleep:

Turn 6 (410) Some worker moves...shuffle some bombard units.

IBT - Mugla Cannon>Market | Izmit Sipahi>Sipahi | Aydin Court>Aqueduct

Turn 7 (420) Consolidate 3 cannon and 2 Trebuchets together, get them moving towards the longbow stack.

IBT - Carthage starts Copernicus'

Turn 8 (430) shuffle some units...disband a warrior in Chengdu

IBT - Istanbul Sipahi>Sipahi | Bursa Sipahi>Sipahi | Chengdu Rax>Court

Turn 9 (440) move the bombard units

IBT - Anyang Spearman>Worker | Chinan Spear>Harbor

Turn 10 (450)

Dial up Carthage and declare war.
First Knight to Oea falls redlining a NumMerc.
First Knight into Leptis Magna promotes Killing a NumMerc. Second and third Knights retreat, 4th Knight kills NumMerc in Leptis Magna.
Take a Sipahi and go after Oea.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/BUGS2_GA.jpg

Take a couple of Sips out of Chengdu, and hit Leptis Magna. DANGIT. There is one more Numidian Merc there.

I advance all of the longbows and bombard units on Hippo.

The stupid cat jumped up in my lap, hit <Enter> so I didn't get to take another screenie.

After Action Review:

The good: Got us Military Tradition, some Sipahi, and a Golden Age. At a cost of 100s per Sipahi, we need the GA.

The Bad: I underestimated the garrisons at Leptis Magna and Oea. Hopefully the Sips will deal with them next turn.

The Ugly: We'll know in the IBT if there is one. We'll either roll over Hannibal quickly, or we'll get hammered. I doubt it'll be a stalemate.

For the next better player, > > The Save < < (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Bugs2,_450_AD.SAV)

Well I think we need to make an offering tp the RNG :worship: :worship: :worship:

Scout - Just played
Denyd – Up
Yom - On Deck
DJM Gator
Bugs

Good turns Scout

With 2 different attack points in CART territory, hopefully the AI will get confused on where to send reinforcements. Also the slave worker SE of Chengdu could be a nice distraction for a 2mp CART unit.

Thanks for the pickup Scout - I got it and will start tomorrow night.

Nice trading, I'll see if I can pop out a couple more Siphai and stomp on Carthage.

With 2 different attack points in CART territory, hopefully the AI will get confused on where to send reinforcements.
...Make that 3 points in Carthaginian territory... there's a stack of longbows with Treb/Cannon fire support in the west, some knights and a couple of Sips against Leptis, and a Sip and a Knight at Oea. As long as denyd doesn't get confused where to send reinforcements, we oughta be okay. :D

...Make that 3 points in Carthaginian territory... <snip> and a Sip and a Knight at Oea.

I wasn't counting Oea because he can only rush a defender there, unless he has a galley nearby.


As long as denyd doesn't get confused where to send reinforcements, we oughta be okay. :D

Hopefully that's an inside joke. If not Scout can always just draw some stick men with arrows to use as a road map. :lol:

I'm back.

Nice job on starting to take out Carthage Scout :D. With our Uber-UU and GA we should be able to take control of our starting continent soon, despite being unable to upgrade knights.

Well I got started last night and the phrase of the day is a quote from one of Bugs' childhood comedy duos, "Well it's another fine mess you've gotten us into Ollie" :D

I'll finish up tonight and post then

I hope that's not a sign that I pulled the trigger too quickly on Hannibal...

I guess it is an indication of how old I am, when not only do I know who Denyd is talking about, but I have watched way too many of their movies. I think I prefer the Marx Brothers or Abbott & Costello to Laurel & Hardy

FIRST THE LINK (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Bugs2_550_AD.SAV)

Turn 0 – 450 AD – All looks pretty good, though I have to wonder why we don’t have more city defenders

IBT: Elite LB loses to Vet MDI (2/4) – Ponderosa MDI->Library

Turn 1 – 460 AD – Assault on Hippo:
Cannon go 1 for 3 – Trebuchet 1 for 2 – Vet LB (2/4) kills Reg N-Merc – Elite LB (3/5) kills Reg N-Merc – Vet LB dies to Reg N-Merc (1/3) – Vet LB (4/4) kills Vet MDI – Vet LB (4/4) kills Reg N-Merc and we take Hippo – William captures 2 Workers – Assault on Leptis Major: Vet Sipahi (2/5) kills Vet Knight and promotes – Elite Knight (1/5) retreats from Reg N-Merc (2/3) – Assault on Oea Vet Sipahi (1/4) kills Reg N-Merc – Pull wounded units out of Carthage to heal – Hurry barracks in Bolu

IBT: N-Merc kills LB – Edrine Sipahi->Sipahi – Bolu barracks->musket – Korea starts Magellan’s

Turn 2 – 470 AD – Cannon redline – N-Merc – Elite LB (2/5) kills N-Merc – All other units are healing - Everyone except China now is up Navigation & Democracy

IBT: Loses Elite LB to attacking N-Merc – Vet Spear (5/5) defends against Vet Knight and promotes (thanks LB assist) – Beijing Library->Musket – Palace Expansion gets us a front lawn – Byzantines start Magellan’s Voyage

Turn 3 – 480 AD – Assault on Oea: Vet Sipahi (4/4) kills Reg N-Merc – Vet Sipahi (1/4) retreats from Reg N-Merc (2/3) – Assault on Leptis Major: Elite Sipahi (4/5) kills N-Merc and Leptis Major is ours – After redlining a Vet N-Merc & Vet Warrior outside Hippo: Vet LB (3/4) kills Vet N-Merc & Vet LB (4/4) kills Vet Warrior – Vet Sipahi (3/5) kills Reg Knight and promotes

IBT: Knight kills out Vet LB – With LB assist Elite Spear (3/5) defends against Vet Knight – Istanbul Sipahi->Sipahi – Salonika Aqueduct->Musket

Turn 4 – 490 AD – After knight is redlined by cannon – Elite Sipahi (3/5) kills Knight – Assault on Oea: Vet Sipahi (2/4) kills Reg N-Merc and Oea is ours – the rest of the units are allowed to heal

IBT: Shantung: Reg Spear (2/3) defends against N-Merc – Izmit Sipahi->Sipahi – Palace Expansion gets us a front porch

Turn 5 – 500 AD – Troops advancing on Sabrathia – Hurry a market in Mugla

IBT: N-Merc pillages a road near Chengdu – Mugla market->musket – Bursa Sipahi->Sipahi

Turn 6 – 510 AD – Final movements before assault on Sabrathia

IBT: Korea starts Smith’s Trading Post

Turn 7 – 520 AD – Assault on Sabrathia: Cannon go 2 for 3 and Trebuchet go 2 for 2 – Elite Sipahi (2/5) kills Reg N-Merc – Elite Sipahi (3/5) kills Reg N-Merc – Vet Sipahi (4/4) kills Reg N-Merc and takes Sabratha sinking a caravel – Defense of Mugla: Vet Sipahi (3/4) kills Vet N-Merc – Vet Sipahi (3/4) kills Reg N-Merc – Vet Sipahi (3/4) kills Vet Warrior – Vet Knight (3/5) kills Reg N-Merc and promotes – Elite Knight (3/5) kills Vet Warrior - – Hurry Sipahi in Istanbul – Korea & Portugal both want a bunch for Economics

IBT: Carthage comes calling and we could get a city & some gold, but that’s not really enough – Vet Knight wounds our Vet Sipahi (2/4) – Istanbul Sipahi->Sipahi – Pyongyang builds Copernicus and lots of wonder switches

Turn 8 – 530 AD – Troops advancing on Carthage

IBT: Iznik courthouse->musket

Turn 9 – 540 AD – Defense of Chengdu: Vet LB (3/5) kills Vet Warrior and promotes – Outside Carthage: Elite Sipahi (3/5) kills Reg knight – Vet Sipahi (3/.3) kills Reg Knight – Other troops have reached Carthage – Spend our cash and hurry 3 Sipahi – Portugal & Korea now with Physics

IBT: Lose a Vet Sipahi to Knight attack – Edrine Sipahi->Musket – Bursa Sipahi->Sipahi – Izmit Sipahi->Sipahi – Aydin Aqueduct->Musket – Lisbon builds Magellan’s Voyage

Turn 10 – 550 AD – Assault on Carthage: Cannon go 2 for 3 and Trebuchet go 2 for 2 (more than 5 N-Merc in Carthage) – Sipahi dies to Reg N-Merc (2/3) – Sipahi (1/4) kills Reg N-Merc – Sipahi (4/5) kills Reg N-Merc and promotes – Vet Sipahi dies to Reg N-Merc (1/3) – Elite Sipahi (2/5) kills Reg N-Merc – Vet Knight (3/4) kills Reg N-Merc – Vet Knight (3/5) kills Reg N-Merc and promotes – Elite Sipahi (3/5) kills Reg N-Merc and Carthage is taken with Leonardo’s Workshop – cleanup: Vet Knight loses to Reg Knight (3/4) who promotes – Vet LB (4/4) chases Vet Knight – Vet Sipahi (4/4) Vet Knight

When this turn set started I felt like my job was cooking bacon at the nudist colony.

I don't think I've ever been in a war with so many undefended cities, I kept waiting for a Carthage caravel to land and a city would be gone. I've got 4 units playing a zone defense on the west coast. I had a bout of temporary sanity and started a couple of defenders, so we can garrison our border & coastal cities. Considering the cultural difference between us and Carthage, we should be shooting to wipe them out, unless we want to look forward to lots of flips. Physics is for sale at the moment (250g + 75gpt) but I thought killing Carthage was a higher priority and besides someday our GA will end and we might become cash short.

Bad luck with Elite RNG and we won 10 elite battles and had no GL.

I'll check back tomorrow morning. :sleep:

When this turn set started I felt like my job was cooking bacon at the nudist colony. :rotfl:

Sorry for leaving you feeling so exposed there denyd. Nicely fought set!

:rotfl:
Sorry for leaving you feeling so exposed there denyd.
:lol: You guys are too funny.

That was a very nicely executed campaign Denyd. :thumbsup:

Scout
Denyd - :hammer: on Hannibal
Yom – Up
DJM Gator - On Deck
Bugs

Glad you gentlemen enjoy my strange little sense of humor.

A couple of things for the next guy I forgot to mention:

1. We should get our navy (1 galley) to the SE corner of our land, there's a Carthage city on an island with our city that should be ours.
2. We are way behind on culture to everyone so be careful how many units you leave in a recently conquered city.
3. North of Carthage is the final Chinese city, if we want to stir the pot a little we could give China and outdated tech for an MA against Carthage and give Hannibal a weaker target to distract his attacking troops.
4. I don't know whether it's C3C or lucky RNG, but my bombardments were much more effective than I remember in PTW.
5. We should start a couple of caravels as we'll need some troop transports soon to begin visiting other exotic locales.

Yom - do you have this?


RosterYom – Up
DJM Gator - On Deck
Bugs
Scout
Denyd - on Hannibal

Turn 0 - Nothing

IBT - Our Dyes Deal expires but we get 14 more gpt out of it this
time.

Turn 1 - Not Much, mostly resting. I leave a sihapi in our
unprotected backlands as mobile defense (9 squares :D).

Turn 2 - I was planning on attacking next turn with full artillery
support, but our Sihapi's show that there are only reg Mercs on
defense, so I press ahead. We take Utica with the loss of one
Sihapi thanks to bad PRNG.

IBT - We renew the iron deal with Portugal getting Physics,
Navigation and 1 gold for Iron and Wines :D. Gotta love the
ridiculous price of iron when you're the one with extra.
We successfully defend against a knight.

Turn 3 - Resting. I waste 25 shields at Beijing to start a
courthouse .

IBT - Renew deal for incense w/Port., gaining 4 and 1/2 gpt (they
pay 10 gold).

Turn 4 - More resting, Theveste will fall next turn, as will Leptis
Minor if I find it weak enough to push on.

IBT - Carthage advances 1 longbow, 1 MDI and 2 knights past our
troops (they can be easily slaughtered if I delay the attack). Renew
Furs deal, once again gaining money. This time it's 12 gpt.

Turn 5 - :lol: apparently a barb camp just appeared West of
Carthage. It's on the exact same spot I was planning on building a
city, too. Theveste falls with no losses, giving us 6 slaves and a
leader. Did someone say, Sihapi army? It gets loaded with 2 elite
sihapi. I destroy all the threatening units (including a previously
unseen knight behind theveste) without any casualties. The attack
on Leptis Minor will begin next turn.

Turn 6 - Leptis Minor falls like a ton of bricks. Our artillery is
overwhelming successful and we don't even lose a hitpoint. No
leaders despite 4 Elite wins this turn.

Turn 7 - Nora will fall next turn. Cirta will fall in 2 turns unless I
find that it is weak enough to take and hold next turn (without
artillery support).

Turn 8 - Both Cirta and Nora fall this turn, though our army loses
6 hp. As the fortune favors the bold and I still have 3 sihapi that
can attack this turn, I attack Rusicade. After the death of 2
NuMercs, it falls as well. The Carthaginian capital jumps to the
Island city of Hadrumetum. The only other Carthaginian cities are
Cirta (near Nora) and Rusaddir (on our Iron island). As Carthage
has more culture than us, I would push for complete annihilation
as they have no techs (other than democracy) over us. I rush some
Caravels.

IBT - We successfully defend against an MDI.

Turn 9 - The Gambit that Cirta only had 1 Numidian Mercenary
fails, but we still kill 1 of the city's defenders. Cirta will fall next
turn and the next player will be set up to take Hadrumetum soon
(either 2 or 3 turns from now).

Turn 10 - Cirta falls.

Summary: Our Golden age will be over next turn, but we're
in great shape. I prioritized Infrastructure builds over Sihapi's in
my turns as they're so damn powerful and Carthage was very
weak. Our empire is huge and will be even stronger once we end
all resistance (soon, as soon as we get a military unit in all
resisting cities and Carthage is destroyed). The only important tech
we are behind is Magnetism, which should be easily bought. I
would still wait for a 2fer (if one doesn't arise, our economy is
strong enough to buy or research it and 2+ other well known
techs). I would keep all our cities on infrastructure and build
courthouses everywhere. We will eventually be in
communism, and most of our cities can benefit from them
anyway. Even Rusicade, the 2nd Northernmost Carthaginian
city isn't 1/1 (it makes 2 gold). So build them wherever
possible. I would build a city Just outside of Carthage either 1 SE
or 1 S of the cow tile there to redeem some wasted tiles. Bursa is
building the Forbidden Palace and will complete it in 17
turns (it says 12 b/c it hasn't taken into account the end of the
golden age yet). Also, build Libraries. They're really cheap,
and we'll be doing our own research upon researching the
Industrial Age. We can win any way we choose (save cultural
victory), but I would prefer a Conquest Victory to be 100%
certain we have conquered the Gauntlet. Whatever path we
choose, Carthago delenda est! (I've always wanted to say
that :D).

P.S. Those caravels can be used to mop up the Chinese once
Carthage's been eradicated.

P.P.S. (what does that even stand for?) The Army can have another Elite Sihapi loaded, but I would wait until we have no opportunities for leaders (we can carry an army with 3 sihapi once we get Magnetism).

Nice turns Yom! Way to hammer o'l Hannibal! Now let's see... lots of infrastructure builds... go commie... mop up China...

Who shall we hammer next?

Actually, now that I think about it, pumping pure Sihapi's and boats would be the smartest thing to do if we want an early conquest victory. It would take away from the fun, and I haven't gotten a chance to see what Communism can really do (as in, a whole civilization geared toward communism with ubiquitous courthouses and police stations). Do you think we could get wonders without pre-building?

...and I haven't gotten a chance to see what Communism can really do (as in, a whole civilization geared toward communism with ubiquitous courthouses and police stations). Do you think we could get wonders without pre-building?I don't think we could get wonders without pre-buildng....

...on the commie thing: It's too bad you weren't in Bede1 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=85717). But if you want to see what a commie empire can look like, those saves should still be available. Brother Bede did some absolutely bee-you-tee-ful city management in that one. It got a little crazy at the end, but the early industrial era saves are a marvel of an empire.

Good turn Yom :goodjob:

I like Communism in C3C, the shared corruption makes those previous 1 shield cities productive, but it also reduces your shield production in your 2 main cores. If we are going conquest (or dom) that should not be a problem.

I'll probably play tomorrow. So post any other items of interest, Yom's after action reports looks pretty good.

One other fun thing to consider would be building the Military Academy in our most productive city and pumping out 3 more Sipahi armies, then adding a Pentagon. A 4-man Sipahi army would be a 12-6-4 unit :beer:

It also wouldn't be able to traverse the seas until transports.

It also wouldn't be able to traverse the seas until transports....just load the 4th on the back end... after something's been takend. :devil2:

Sipahi rule, and so shall we.

Preturn - 650AD
move a few knights and the Army towards SE coast and the caravels
we have some cities at or near 10% flip chance - I remove elite knight from one

IBT - our GA ends (gpt drops by 70) / PORT building Newton’s

Turn1 - 660AD
Anyang worker => harbor (not enough food for another worker)
convert an IRS guy to sci (easily trade 1 gpt to get 1 turn of sci going)
minor troop moves

IBT - BYZ building Newton’s

Turn2 - 670AD
Mugla sipahi => settler for cow are near Cart.
Lux to 30% due to WW
minor troop moves

Battle for Hadrumetum
vSip vrs rNM - flawless vic no promo
vSip vrs rNM - flawless defeat
eSip vrs rNM - we redline but retreat inflict 1 hp of damage (at least 2 defenders left and I only have 1 more so I'll wait)

IBT - KOR building Newtons

Turn3 - 680AD
TRADE: Buy ToG, MAG & Tmap from PORT for Spices, Tmap, 2091gold & 19gpt
we enter Industrial Age and get Nationalism - since KOR & BYZ already have it I decide to trade it to PORT (who has our 2000 gold)
TRADE: sell Nationalism to PORT for gems, ivory, ECONOMICS, MUSIC THEORY, Wmap & 835 of our gold back

Aydin set to Galleon (completed its build but I forgot to note it)

Battle for Hadrumetum (continues)
vSip vrs rNM - flawless vic
eSip vrs rNM - vic (down 1hp no promo) capture a worker & city - set to harbor

Battle for Rusaddir
vSip vrs rNM - vic (-1hp no promo)
vSip vrs rNM - vic (-2hp no promo) - captures city - sets to library (for culture)
CART went bye-bye

IBT - add two wings to our palace - fireworks are going off in our cities again / Bcamp pops back up on cows

Turn4 - 690AD
Salonika library => sipahi
change Cadiz from Rifle (76) to wealth to library
mm cities for post war happiness - set sci to 50% w/1 Scientist for Steam Power in 23 turns (could have gone Comm. Here but that coal & RR were more important)
FP due in 11
hurry harbor in Shantung
protect worker stack near Bcamp

IBT - na

Turn5 - 700AD
Utica worker => library (culture)
Theveste worker => library (culture)
Oea barracks => library (culture)
Shangtung harbor => library (same # of turns as a barrack)
Denizli courthouse => aqueduct
minor troop moves

IBT

Turn6 - 710AD
Mugla settler => sip
Leptis Minor worker => courthouse
minor troop moves

IBT - na

Turn7 - 720AD
minor troop moves

IBT -

Turn8 - 730AD
Chengdu aqueduct => sip
Cirta worker => harbor
Nora worker => library (culture)
minor troop moves

IBT - Bcamp pops up right next to our unescorted settler & about a dozen workers (why??? Area was "lite")

Turn9 - 740AD
Istanbul univ => sip
Leptis Magna courthouse => sip
Rusicade worker => library (culture)
took out Bcamp with LB and musket
found URFA (se of cow near Cart) set to library (culture)

IBT - PORT exchanges Wmaps / CHN wants us to remove troops (empty boat) / PORT learned Comm

Turn10 - 750AD
Edrine aqueduct => galleon
Izmit aqueduct => sip
minor troop moves


Notes to next player
1) I have 3 sips in Shangtung with a caravel of 2 eKnights and 1 vSip due in next turn. There is a caravel off Beijing which can take our 2sip Army also in the preturn.
2) I have started some libraries for their cultural affect
3) I restarted our research to get Steam Power for coal & RR's. We are only behind DEM and as of this turn COMMUNISM
4) Our military is Strong versus BYZ & CHN, Average to PORT and Weak against KOR
5) There are several wonders we could build, but have not started anything
6) FP is due in 5 turns in our strongest shield city

The 750AD save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Bugs2_750_AD.SAV)


Quick look at the CHN island
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Bugs20_07.jpg

I'm curious what the quote below means. Maybe I can learn a new trick. :D Thanks in advance.

No scrolling ahead through cities during the production phase, "between turns".

Say you have a rioting city because you lost a city or a lux in the interturn. You can not use the scroll ahead feature to fix the city that will riot, or change their builds or anything the AI couldn't do.

Scout - On Deck
Denyd
Yom
DJM Gator - Finished off Hannibal
Bugs– Up and Got it

Say you have a rioting city because you lost a city or a lux in the interturn. You can not use the scroll ahead feature to fix the city that will riot, or change their builds or anything the AI couldn't do.

Thanks much. Hope to hook up and play an SG with you soon. :)

It's been a while since we played together. Wasn't it HMM1?

Pre-flight – 750 AD – Wow! You gentlemen have really changed the world! Time to take out Mao.

I sell Mao our WM for his WM & all his cash…37G.

We have three cities in resistance, move military units in.

Load up the army. Great headwork by only putting two units in it. I’ll have a galleon to bring it back.

IBT - We lose our supply of dyes. Renegotiate a deal. We pay our WM & 7G for dyes.

1. 760 AD – Kick Mao’s troops out then declare war.

Sipahi rock! Macao falls at the loss of one hp.

Move into position on the heights above Hangchow.

IBT - Build a galleon and start another.

2. 770 AD – Hangchow falls without loss.

Our Sipahi army single-handedly takes Tientsin (2 spears and an archer) without losing a hp.

IBT – Theodora drops off a cav and a LB next to Pondarosa.
Henry permanently hires Will Shakespeare.

3. 780 AD – Kill two defenders in Mao’s last city.

I rush a galleon build.

To see if I can fend off Theodora until I have some units in place, I sell her wines for WM & 5 gpt.

To make thing even less tempting, I sign Henry into an MPP for iron. We don’t have an embassy with Korea so I establish one for 70G. Seoul was one turn from building Shakespeare’s. They’ll lose a ton of shields. Sign Wang to a MPP for WM & 313G. Well I hope the city of Pondarosa is going to be worth it Theodora.

IBT – Renew our incense deal with Henry for silks, WM & 169G.

And the Byzantines declare war anyway. Pondarosa falls. An MDI is dropped off next to Istanbul.
We get some serious war happiness.

4. 790 AD – A sipahi dispatches the MDI.

Our Sipahi army loses its first hp of the campaign as Tatung is captured. The fragile Chinese are destroyed.

Portugal now has steam. It is too expensive for us.

IBT – Renegotiate a deal with Wang. He gives furs and 10 gpt for wines and silks.

We build the FP. Income jumps from 22gpt to 47gpt.

5. 800 AD – Move our Sipahi towards Oea, our jumping off point for the Byzantine eastern island.
6. 810 AD – Drop off our first units on the Byzantine island.

IBT – Build a Sipahi, and two markets. Henry hires Adam Smith permanently. While we’re short horses, I build rifles.

7. 820 AD – Heraclea falls to our Sipahi. We drop off four more Sips.

IBT – A few Byz troops (a cav and two archers) approach Heraclea. Build a settler.
Korea completes Isaac Newton’s University, and Theodora decides to hire J.S> Bach on a permanent basis.

8. 830 AD – We pick off the Byzantines in the open then turn to Sardica. First two Sips retreat, but our army walk right over the two rifles and the city is ours.

Science goes to 10%. Just notice that we have horses in an uncontrolled area of Carthage. :smoke: I’ll have them on line next turn.

IBT – Steam comes in. Go for Communism. Set the slider to 70%, due in 9 turns, budget is -9gpt.
Build four Sips and a harbor.

9. 840 AD – Found Bingol getting us some horses. Change the cities that just built Sips to Sips.

Naissus falls with barely a struggle. We should be able to recapture Pondarosa next turn.

10. 850 AD – In another :smoke: move on my part, I didn’t gather our workers to start railroading in a timely manner. Pondarosa is liberated and our people are very happy to see us.

After action the fleet is gathering at Oea. The army can be picked up and the rest of the force can be dropped off at Smyrna.

Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Bugs2_850_AD.SAV

Nicely done Bugsy! I love a good dogpile, and I love it when Theodora gets all pouty-faced. :devil2:

Good Turns :)

Hopefully KOR will be active in this war and lose some of her units. We have almost 30 cities that are producing only 1 shield, communism will help make them productive.

Scout – Up
Denyd - On Deck
Yom
DJM Gator
Bugs - Just played

Looks like you are all having a good go at this. Back in the days of PTW, I also organized a Gauntlet SG (otherwise known as the band of ringers :lol: ). Clicky (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=65122)

We had a good team, but it was a pretty tight ending with a strong endgame AI (Rome IIRC)--though not the "screw you" of Epic 12. I am not sure how much our go at this will help you, but at least you'll have another experience to review.

Good luck.

Bam-Bam

Once again, I find myself "Up in Three". :hatsoff: It may be tomorrow until I get to this one.

@Bam-Bam: Welcome to our little slugfest. :D

Thanks Bam-Bam. I'm thinking I might take the Epic 12 game and play it next. I'm thinking this one isn't nearly as brutal as the original.

I case you guys haven't done so already. Feel free to read the 2.1 thread. A very different game and very exciting.

I case you guys haven't done so already. Feel free to read the 2.1 thread. A very different game and very exciting.Now that's just what a burnout like me needs... something else to read... :lol:

.... speaking of burnouts... anybody know if GK is still alive?

He has pretty much disappeared off the face of the CivEarth. I check his post count on a regular basis. It has been holding at 2763 for about two months.

I will get this played tomorrow, I promise. My mom called me earlier this evening and messed me up time-wise. Okay, I love my mother....call me a "momma's boy". :p

...at least I love SOMEONE more than civ. :D (Please, nobody tell my wife about this post)

You guys seem to be doing a terrific job here. I didn't read your thread but I saw your map and apparently you are on your way of dominating the world.

We had pretty bad luck at the start and we barely survived. Let's say we just still have some chance of winning. :)

Oh Mrs. Scout :wavey:

Microbe - you guys are doing a terrific job coming back from the brink of disaster.

The Score:

Theodora: Sunk a Caravel, a Galleon, killed a Sipahi

Scout: Sunk a couple of Dromons, a Caravel, a couple of Galleons, and took 5 Byzantine cities.

More to follow.

Pre-flight check: MPP with Wang Kon and Henry? I just know you didn't do that to me Bugsy...

Scroll through our cities and do a tiny bit of tile-swapping here and there.

Bursa Rifle>Sip
Uskadar Library>Worker
Chengdu Sip>Sip
Aydin Galleon>Galleon

Portugal starts Universal Sufferage.

Turn 1 (860) Happiness problems on an island... rush harbor in Anyang for 160g.

Rally and move some troops...... take lux up a notch.

IBT - Edrine Galleon>Worker
Hippo Library>Worker
Anyang Harbor>Court

Turn 2 (870) ... just positioning... I'm not sure if you guys intended for me to take those bombard units to Byzantium or not...

IBT - Theodora requests an audience...I rebuff her. Some Byzantine ships appear north of the island city of Heraclea...a Frigate, a Dromon, and a Caravel. I don't like this.
Tsingtao Rax>Sip (and MM it for 10spt)
Uskadar Worker>Sip
We lose our supply of Gems, Dyes, and Ivory. Henry wants spices AND coal for just one lux.

Turn 3 (880)
Rush the Sipahi builds in Istanbul, Iznik, and Izmit.

Seven Sips and a Sip Army disembark at Smyrna.

I think I know how denyd felt on his last turnset...hit <Enter>

IBT - Portugese Privateer picks off Byzantine Frigate. Byzantines shuffle menacingly down the west coast of our island.

Istanbul Sip>Sip
Edrine Worker>Sip
Mugla Rifle>Worker
Iznik Sip>Worker
Izmit Sip>Sip

Turn 4 (890)
I use our Trebs/Cannon to knock most of the hp off the Byz Dromon/Caravel pair. Take a real risk here. Caravel out of Oea redlines sinking the Dromon. Galleon flawlessly kills the Caravel.

Our Sipahi Army is redlined blitzing 2 Byzantine Rifles at Smyrna. But the city falls. Set queue to Harbor.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/bugs2_Smyrna.jpg

3 sips take out the garrison at Varna.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/bugs2_Varna.jpg

Rush the Rax in Carthage. That one needs a court bigtime.

We are so not ready for Communism... I take science down a notch so we can rush a few more partial Sipahi builds...

IBT - Portugese Navy shuffles down the Byzantine coast...
Carthage Rax>Court
Mugia Worker>Sip
Oea Library>Worker
Bolu Rifle>Sip

Turn 5 (900) Pull an Elite Sip off the island to go leader fishing...

BTW team...I've been trying to get something that resembles a rail network built (notice the worker builds?)

Troops get a rest...

IBT- more Byzantine ships show up off the island...

Iznik Worker>Sip

Turn 6 (910)
Rush finish Sip build in Salonika

Really gambling here... I've only got a couple of sips on the island... but I've got 5 advancing on Caserea and 6 on Adrianople.

IBT - The Byzantinze ships move towards Smyrna.
Koreans advance a rifle on the tile NE of Adrianople. I'll be forced to attack across a river :wallbash:
Leptis Magna Rifle>Rifle (all our Rifles are in Byzantine holdings now :devil2:
Sabratha Library>Worker
Salonika Sip>Sip

Turn 7 (920)

*****Siege of Caesarea
Vet Sip takes Longbow freeshot, kills Elite Byz Rifle (1/5)
Vet Sip kills Reg Rifle 2/4
Vet Sip dies flawlessly to conscript rifle
Vet Sip flawlessly kills conscript rifle
Vet Sip versus 4/4 Longbow and we add 8 more resisters to our empires population.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/bugs2_caeserea.jpg

Decision time... I can attack Adrianople from across the river now, or move NE to a mountain and attack Adrianople from a different angle next turn without the river. Knowing my luck, I'd take the city down to a longbow, only to watch the one Korean Rifle take the city IBT. Adrianople will wait.

IBT - Portugese Navy advances towards our mainland... (I just knew Henry couldn't resist ticking me off)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/bugs2_henry.jpg

Aydin Galleon>Frigate
Denizili Aqueduct>Worker

...more to follow...

Turn 8 (930) I lose a Caravel and a Galleon fighting the Byzantine Dromon and Galleon, but I do sink them.

*****Siege of Adrianople
Elite Sip kills vet Rifle (3/5)
Vet Sip retreats to Reg Rifle 2/3
Elite Sip flawlessly kills 2/3 Rifle and...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/bug2_adrianople.jpg

...advance our army... what do you guys want to bet that SOMEBODY takes Constantinople soon?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/bugs2_somebody.jpg

Rush a Sip build in Izmit.

IBT - Korea and Portugal sign a Mutual Protection Pact.
LOTS of Portugese naval movement...
Byzantines and Korea sign peace.

Istanbul Sip>Sip
Bursa Sip>Sip
Izmit Sip>Sip

Turn 9 (940) Rally the troops for the assault on Constantinople. Assemble 4 Sipahi in Reserve in our homeland so denyd doesn't feel quite so nekked.

Do y'all know the difference between "nekked" and "naked"?

IBT- this is wierd... a portugese Cavalry attacks Constantinople...but it was fighting a Longbow... and there was at least one rifle in the city. Anybody know what's up with that?

Oea Worker>Market
Denizli Worker>Market
Korea declared war on the Byzantines.

Turn 10 (950)

Need a musical "I been workin' on the railroad" smiley.

I think we could get Istanbul to 20spt with a little more terrain trimming...

*****Constantinople is toast.
Sip Army takes out 3 rifles.
Vet Sip takes out Conscript Rifle
Vet Sip takes out Conscript Rifle and promotes
Vet Sip takes out Conscript Rifle, promotes, and...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/bugs2_constantinople.jpg

:rotfl: It's only got one citizen now. This one will be easy to assimilate. :borg:

Oh man... we got Bach's too....[dance]

Advance a half dozen Sipahi into the jungle in striking distance of Nicea.

Two are Elite.

After Action Review:

well... I hate to dictate tactics to the next player.... but those 6 Sipahi outside Nicea probably ought to be used to push Theodora into the sea.

Now... um... "I have an idea"....

I think we can win this in Republic. Seriously.

Have a look at my turnlog, and look at how many Sipahi I was able to "finish-rush" with cash... sort of like "reverse short rushing"...let a productive city get the Sipahi build within a few turns of finishing it...and buy the finish....

The combination of a touch of war weariness (lux now at 20%) and some tactical needs forced me to ratchet down science a bit... but Sipahi really rock... I think we could probably just keep making sipahi and the occasional rifle in the core...and go on a rampage...

The one wrinkle: Korea and Portugal have a MPP going now.

Other notes: I sent a Galleon Southwest so that we can (eventually) reinforce that island in the middle of nowhere... a cold :bber: says that's where oil and/or rubber is...

Pop the occasional worker, and build some dang railroads, please. We need workers and railroads in a big way.

...soo, for the next better player...> > The Save < < (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Bugs2_gauntlet_950AD.SAV)

IBT- this is wierd... a portugese Cavalry attacks Constantinople...but it was fighting a Longbow... and there was at least one rifle in the city. Anybody know what's up with that?

The longbow was in a ship.

This game is pretty much in the bag now, good work :goodjob:.

Excellent work :hatsoff: General Scoutsout

I gladly this one over and will continue to whack Miss Theodora. I'll build a couple of workers for scout and a couple of rifles for me. Any other requests?

I think we can win this in Republic. Seriously... <snip> ...
The one wrinkle: Korea and Portugal have a MPP going now.



Actually that wrinkle could be helpful if staying in Republic. We will declare on one (we earn WW) and the other will declare on us (we earn WH). If the war with the one we declare on is short we should have no problem.

Oh yeah, Good turns Scout. You got to do some :hammer: of your own.

As for the Portugal & Korea MPP, what I'll try for (if it's time for that war), is to MPP with on and declare on the other. Let our enemy attacks us first and activate the MPP with our new buddy. That would let us concentrate on a single opponent.

Ride Sipahi Ride :bounce:

Well done scout. Since I've never spoken "Southern" very well you might have to explain the "nekked" one to me. When the president speaks I use my English-Texan dictionary.

Scout - Just played
Denyd – Up
Yom - On Deck
DJM Gator
Bugs

Naked - when you ain't got no clothes on.

Nekked - when you ain't got no clothes on, and you're up to somethin'.

As for the Portugal & Korea MPP, what I'll try for (if it's time for that war), is to MPP with on and declare on the other. Let our enemy attacks us first and activate the MPP with our new buddy. That would let us concentrate on a single opponent.

Ride Sipahi Ride :bounce:
We have an MPP with both Korea and Portugal. I was trying to deter Theodora from her sneak attack. She got an instant dogpile for the honor of owning Pondarosa for less than 7 turns. The Mpps we have with Henry and Wang will expire shortly. You will probably want to renew just one of them.

Something to consider: Portugal has a pretty impressive navy. If there is a civ that is capable of hitting us where it would hurt, it is Portugal. When one Portugese naval stack started looking a little froggy, I started keeping a few Sipahi at home. This will be less of a problem if we can get some rails down between all of our towns...

Requests...hmmm... I'd really like a shiny new rocket launcher, but I'd settle for getting those gems connected over by Constantinople.

And I thought for sure you'd want a BFG9000 to jump into Doom 3 with :ar15: :sniper:

:sniper:
Here comes the helicopter -- second time today
Everybody scatters and hopes it goes away
How many kids they've murdered only God can say
If I had a rocket launcher...I'd make somebody pay
- Bruce Cockburn and scout :sniper:

What happened to the rocket launcher smilie? :hmm:

:rotfl: You guys are a scream!

Seriously - IIRC, I captured some workers at Adrianople...and one at Constantinople. I think I made the ones at Adrianople go N to the mountain and start a railroad... you might want to wake 'em up and send 'em to the gems tile at Constantinople. It's jungle, and will need some worker turns.

I think Gems are the only lux we lack. WW was starting to be felt, I hired a tax collector in Carthage.

...besides, Mrs. Scout needs some new earrings or something to make up for all the Civving I've been up to. :D

FIRST THE SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Bugs2_gauntlet_1040AD.SAV)

Turn 0 – 950 AD – All looks pretty good – As per Scouts request wake the three workers and send them to the gems – We are 2 units below our limit, I’ll probably start disbanding old warriors & archers once we reach the limit – Set those two new cities to starve the populace – Distribute the defense a little more to the north – send the elite units to the ships (better to die fighting than get disbanding and maybe we can get a leader)

IBT: Trade Silks + 20g + WM to Korea for Communism (saving 4 research turns) – Chengdu Sipahi->market – Chinan harbor->library

Turn 1 – 960 AD – Start research on Electricity (60% due in 15) – Assault on Nicera: Vet Sipahi loses to Vet Rifle (1/4) – Elite Sipahi (1/5) kills Reg Rifle – Elite Sipahi (3/5) kills Vet Rifle and captures Nicaea starts library – Everybody else rests or loads up to travel to the last 2 Byzantine cities – Theodora not willing to part with city for peace, so be it

IBT: Portuguese fleet heading north – Hippo worker->worker – Antayla aqueduct->market

Turn 2 – 970 AD – Boats away – lots of healing and railroading – MM Istanbul to 20spt

IBT: Another Portuguese fleet heading south – Mugla Sipahi->Heroic Epic – Tsingtao Sipahi->University – Palace Expansion gets some neat statues out front

Turn 4 – 980 AD – The Army boards a ship bound for Chalcedon – lots of rail building (I miss the PTW Industrial trait)

IBT: Renew MPP with Henry – Trade Iron to Henry for WM + 98g + 57gpt – Do not renew MPP with Korea – Racing the Portuguese to Clalcedon

Turn 5 - 990 AD – Lots of railing – 4 move galleons against 6 move galleons and I try to block their path

IBT: Lose Incense deal with Portuguese – Trade Spices & Wine to Korea for Furs + WM + 17g – Istanbul Sipahi->Military Academy – Utica library-market – Leptis Magna rifle->market – Xinjan court-aqueduct – Rusadir library->harbor – Salonika Sipahi->market – Bolu Sipahi->rifle –

Turn 6 – 1000 AD – Land troops on Chalcedon ahead of Portuguese fleet (3 Frigates & 2 Galleys) – more railing – For the last time Theodora denies peace for Chalcedon – Trade Silks to Portugal for WM + 4gpt + 27g

IBT: Apologize to Wan Kong for our Galleon in his waters – Bursa Sipahi->market – Aydin frigate->market

Turn 7 – 1010 AD – HMS Sir Bugsy (frigate) sets sail – Assault on Chalcedon: Trebuchet goes 1 for 2 and cannon misses – Sipahi Army (4/14) kills 1 Elite Rifle & 1 Vet Rifle – Vet Sipahi (2/4) kills Conscript Rifle – Vet Sipahi (3/4) kills Vet Longbow taking Chalcedon and sinking a pair of Byzantine ships starts a library – Theodora still not willing to give up much (WM + 13g is it) – Everyone wants over 100gpt + 400g for Medicine

IBT: Lots of Portuguese ships out there – Sabratha worker->worker – Korea starts Universal Suffrage

Turn 8 – 1020 AD – Gems connected – Bursa now over 20spt – Moving troops to prepare for assault on Pusan – Land troops by Trebizond (Byzantine capital and final city) – Theodora still not giving up Democracy or Fascism – Both Industrialization & Medicine available but the price is too high – will be able to trade electricity for both in 6 turns

IBT: Four Portuguese Cavalry attack Trebizond and leave redlined (either killed something or retreated) – 2 Byzantine LB block by path to Trebizond – Edrine Sipahi->library – Izmit Sipahi->market

Turn 9 – 1030 AD – Elite Sipahi (5/5) kills LB – Elite Sipahi (5/5) kills LB – Move 4 Sipahi next to Trebizond and hope it’s still there next turn

Note: Is there a bug – both Portugal & Korea have ironclads, yet they don’t appear on the trade screen and we are eligible to research the tech

IBT: Portugal pillages and pulls wounded troops out – Korean cavalry kill 1 rifle, but the second attacking cavalry dies – Theveste library->worker – Heraclea library->rifle

Turn 10 – 1040 AD – Boats heading home to reload with troops – Assault on Trebizond: A wounded Reg rifle on top – Elite Sipahi (2/5) kills Reg Rifle – Elite (4/5) Sipahi kills Conscript Rifle – Elite Sipahi (4/5) kill Conscript Rifle – Elite Sipahi (5/.5) kills Vet Longbow and Trebizond is ours and the Queen of the Dromons is gone, start a library – Electricity in 4 – Wines can be traded to Henry for about 10gpt – Once electricity is available we should be able to get industrialization, medicine & incense for it in trade – those markets will become very powerful with all 8 luxuries – We need 201 tiles for domination and that’s exactly how many unclaimed tiles are available, so we could win this with a lot of rushed libraries if we do it now (something to consider)

Scout
Denyd - Just :hammer: Theodora
Yom – Up
DJM Gator - On Deck
Bugs

So do we want to win this by domination or conquest? I think I remember some thoughts towards a conquest win.

Nice job hammering Theodora there, denyd.

Do you guys want to follow through with going commie, or keep making Sips and press our luck a bit?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/BUGS2_mapstat_cap.jpg

I really like communism in [c3c] although with Sips, galleons, and ironclads, we could probably wrap this up.

As long as the WW stays in the 30-40% range it can be handled with the slider. Once it hits 66% we need to either wrap up the war which is generating the WW points or we need to make peace.

I'm learning alot more about WW in the current GOTM33. I'll probably include it in my spoiler3 when I reach that far.

EDIT: cross posted with Bugs - I'm for changing to Comm just so some of our team can see it in action, but I think we can probably win the game as Republic.

Well... I certainly don't object to letting this game develop into a modern era slugfest, if that's what the team wants to do... but as quickly as we hammered Theodora, I started wondering if a Sipahi blitz against Korea wouldn't bring us to endgame. I think when we get some libraries in our towns in the north we'll claim a few more percentage points in land area.... those and border expansions in our Byzantine holdings should push us comfortably above the 50% mark.

Edit: Cross-posted with Gator. If you guys want to play commie I'm all for it. It's a heckuva lot of fun.

With the war against Theodora over WW = 0%

We need marketplaces in our larger cities to get them happy. The only reason I couldn't set the lux slider to zero was a couple of size 10+ cities with no markets. Once those are in place we'll be able to research to 100%.

I agree with Korea as the next target. While we're transporting Sipahi from the homeland, let's get those libraries built and see how much land we need. I imagine it'll be under 100 tiles once the expansion is done. That's only 7 or 8 Korean cities and that shouldn't be more than 2 or 3 turns of Sipahi attacks if we plan it right.

Please skip me. I won't be able to get this tonight or tomorrow.

That would put Gator up.

OK, I'll play later tonight or tomorrow.

Double Post :p (although 13.5 hours later)

I did not get to play tonight, been helping my brother in CT get rid of several viruses, 5 items that Spybot found & 43 items that Ad-Aware found. So 6+ hours later I think we have it straight now. But while we were waiting for the scans to run I was looking at the save file and doing some math (or should I say cooking the books).

We need 281 tiles for DOM limit. First question, do ocean tiles count towards DOM? I do not think they count. Based on that I estimate that we can pick up 140 tiles through non-violent cultural expansion. Of that number 88 tiles would come from cities that do not have but are currently building a library; 45 tiles are from cities without libraries but that are building a non-culture improvement (ie harbor or courthouse); and 6 tiles from two cities which have libraries and are about to expand. If ocean tiles count than we are closer to 180-190 tiles gained through cultural expansion.

We currently only have a few hundred gold and with research set at 70% we are generating less than 5gpt. Second question, should we turn down research to 0% and use a scientist so we can pull in about 230gpt and start rushing the libraries? We know KOR & PORT already have Medicine but we are unsure about their progress towards Sci Method. Since we can not prebuild, it is unlikely we will complete the ToE before acheiving a DOM victory, which is why I think sci should go to 0%. I'm also tempted to dump the shields in the nonculturally expanding cities and start them all on libraries.

Third question, should I start the war with KOR now or wait for the libraries to complete and gain most of the 140 (or 180) tiles the easy way?

I'll probably play around noon est, so post your thoughts.

We trust your judgment. If you want to turn down research and rush libraries, go for it. You may want to consider rushing the incomplete builds rather than scrapping them. Your call.

Preturn - 1040AD
adjust lux to 10% & change a few specialists
Since neither KOR or PORT currently have Infantry I decide to go with the library builds mainly to minimize the number of cities we need to capture / Adjust Sci to 30% ELEC in 8 turns at 197gpt - this should allow us to rush 1 library a turn

rush library in Sardica for 76gold
rush library in Constantinople for 124gold
rush harbor in Cirta for 116gold

IBT - KOR & PORT force leave our territory and their ships appear to be heading back to their own cities

Turn1 - 1050AD
Constantinople library => marketplace
Iznik Sip => Sip
Chengdu marketplace => Sip
Sardica library => marketplace
Cirta harbor => library
TRADE: wines to PORT for Wmap, 40gold & 17gpt (they wanted too much for the incense)
rush harbor in Hadrumetum for 92 gold
rush library in Trebizond for 156gold (had only 1 shield in box)

IBT - na

Turn2 - 1060AD
Bursa marketplace => rifle
Uskudr sip => sip
Hadrumetum harbor => library
Trebizond library => rifle
Bolu rifle => sip
Urfa library => marketplace
rush library in Adrianople for 108gold

IBT - na

Turn3 - 1070AD
Adrianople library => rifle
Hippo worker => worker
Heraclea & Theveste culture expand - pick up 20 tiles towards limit - more than I expected apparently ocean tiles count towards DOM limit but even with ocean tiles I was expecting 16 new tiles
rush library in Hadrumetum for 156gold
rush library in Cirta for 152gold
261 tiles needed

IBT - na

Turn4 - 1080AD
Edrine library => sip
Hadrumetum library => rifle
Cadiz library => marketplace
Cirta library => marketplace
Nora riots – it grew and rioted on same turn - hire tax man
Salonika marketplace => Sip
rush library in Nicaea for 112gold
rush library in Hangchow for 32gold
rush library in Tatung for 44 gold
rush library in Tientsin for 36 gold
232 tiles needed

IBT - deal for Ivory runs out - renew it for spices, coal, Wmap, 24gold & 7gpt / KOR offers MPP & ROP but I only trade them Tmaps

Turn5 - 1090AD
Tsingtao university => sip
Nicaea library => rifle
Hangchow library => rifle
Tientsin library => marketplace
Tatung library => marketplace
rush library in Naissus for 60gold
rush library in Chinan for 108gold
218 tiles needed

IBT - PORT learned ironclad

Turn6 - 1100AD
Leptis Magna marketplace => library
Thevest worker => marketplace
Bursa rifle => sip
Naissus library => rifle
Shantung library => marketplace
Chinan library => rifle
Denizili marketplace => barracks
204 tiles needed

IBT -

Turn 7 - 1110AD
rush library in Chalcedon for 120gold
rush courthouse in Anyang for 184gold
rush courthouse in Carthage for 152gold
173 tiles needed

IBT - na

Turn 8 - 1120AD
learn ELEC set to Replaceable Parts
Carthage courthouse => library
Sabratha worker => marketplace
Chalcedon library => marketplace
Anyang courthouse => library
rush library in Varna for 68gold
rush courthouse in Macao for 176gold
160 tiles needed

Can trade Elec to PORT for Incense, Medicine, Industrialization, Wmap, 70 gold & 14gpt
Can trade Elec to KOR for Fascism, Industrialization, Wmap & 110 gold
Do not make either trade because that will put them closer to Replaceable Parts & the game should be ending before we can use any of those techs

IBT - PORT tries to extort ELEC - I say no - no DOW issued

Turn 9 - 1130AD
Varna library => rifle
Izmit marketplace => sip
Chengdu sip => sip
Nora library => marketplace
Macao courthouse => library
Bolu sip => sip
rush library in Anyang for 156gold
149 tiles needed

IBT -

Turn 10 - 1140AD
Leptis Magna library => sip
Mugla Heroic Epic => sip
Rusicade library => marketplace
Aydin marketplace => sip
Anyang library => rifle
rush library in Caesarea
rush library in Macao for 156gold
149 tiles needed

Notes to next player
1) Still 74 tiles unclaimed, there are still a number of cities w/o any culture - but we will need to go to war to win
2) I have moved more troops to Constantinople & have reinforced Trebizond
3) We can trade ELEC but I did not want to put KOR or PORT closer to infantry
4) KOR & PORT have a MPP with each other

The 1140AD save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Bugs20_1140AD.SAV)

That would put it on me. I've got the game, although I probably take the entire 48 to play it. Sounds like it is time for war. Suggestions and campaign strategies are welcome.

Sign a MPP with Korea, stick a worker out on the border, let Henry clip it.... and give us an ally on Henry's eastern flank!

I wasn't sure how the MPP would work. In a recent game when I declared war on a civ A, who had a MPP with Civ B, Civ B proceed to immediately declare on me before I even attacked any troops. So I wasn't sure if we can issue the DOW in our game without drawing the wrath of both KOR & PORT.

Our troops are not in position to battle PORT.

I'm thinking we're better off with Portugal as an ally instead of an enemy, if for no other reason, not having to deal with their fleet when moving units to the battlefront.

After the war starts you should probably make the trade with Portugal for Industrialization in case we get a GL (with Heroic Epic the odds will improve), we could rush Universal Suffrage, so we should start it in one of those corrupt cities on near the future battlefront right after the trade.

We should also have a Military Academy soon and I think the nastiest unit on the map until tanks is a Sipahi Army. A pair of those and without infantry Korea will fall like Scoutsout after a 6-pack of Coors light :rotfl:

A pair of those and without infantry Korea will fall like Scoutsout after a 6-pack of Coors light :rotfl:

WWWWOOOOOWWWW :eek: That fast.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/rofl.gif

Pre-flight – Excellent, we have an MPP with Portugal and Korea doesn’t. First I ask Wang to move his troops. He does. So I declare war. We’re 149 tiles from domination.

IBT – Korea attacks our galleon and brings Portugal into the war. Two cavs attack Caesarea, but it holds. A rifle dies at Trebizond. A small amphibious force lands in former Byzantinium.

1. 1150 AD – Remove all invading Koreans. Move a SOD of Sips onto the mountain south of Pusan.

IBT – We lose another Sip at Trebizond to an attacking cav. We get a new source of iron.

2. 1160 AD – We take Pusan and destroy a Hwacha and a frigate. No loss, although the Hwacha took a hp off our Sip.
Move next to Pyongyang. Attack Paegam but the city stands.

IBT – The Portuguese take Paegam. We get the Iron Works message. Chengdu is the city. Won’t be worth switching the build with the shield loss. I’ll rush it. Our troops in Trebizond get hammered by Korean Frigates.

3. 1170 AD – Pyongyang – We assault the city first with our army and then Sips from the mountain.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Bugs_2_Leader.jpg
We lose one Sip, but the city falls. Use the leader for a Sip Army
Move our stack and new Army towards Seoul.
Spend some cash rushing a few libraries.
100 tiles from domination.

Here is the situation at the end of 1170 AD –
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Bugs2_-_1170_Situation.jpg

To be continued…

nice :hammer: bugs! take it to them!

IBT – A single cav sallies forth from Seoul and kills a sip defending Pyongyang.
The Military Academy completes.

4. 1180 AD – Expansion drop the tiles down to 85. Hire a clown in a city that is unhappy.

Our new Army nearly single-handedly takes Seoul. The remaining LB is quickly dispatched and the city falls.

Our sips march on Ulsan. Two units retreat, and two are victorious as the city falls.

Our first Sip Army marches on Wonsan and kills one defender.

Change two Byz cities to wealth, then settler and rush.

IBT – Renew the MPP with Henry.

5. 1190 AD – 66 Tiles to go. Wonsan falls. 1st Sip Army is redlined.

IBT – Renegotiate an iron deal with Henry for 78gpt. Then sell him our extra gems for 14gpt, 12g & WM… his entire economy.

6. 1200 AD – 58 tiles. Tatung gets a clown. Namp’o and Newton’s is captured.

@ Cheju – 2nd Sips take out a rifle but are down to 6hp.

7. 1210 AD – 44 tiles. We have six unhappy cities. Hire specialists as necessary.

Found Riza. We lose a sip taking Cheju. Hurry a few more libraries and settlers.

8. 1220 AD – 28 tiles. Rush another library. Found Zonguldak. Found Kirklareli.

@ Taejon – We retreat five sips and only kill two defenders. 2nd Sips come in and kill a third.

9. 1230 AD – 17 tiles. Rush three libraries.

@ Taejon –. 2nd Sips come in and kill a defender. A second is killed.

@ Pyongsong – 1st Sips is redlined killing a defender.

IBT – Portugal and Korea sign a peace treaty.
Three counterattacks – Two are defeated, a third retreats a sip.

10. 1240 AD – 17 tiles with three expansions coming up. Found Karabuk.

@ Pyongsong - come up one attacker short.
@Taejon – Kill three defenders and get a leader.
@ Inchon – Kill two defenders.

I think we will win on the interturn. Hit enter.

IBT – We get the Pentagon message :rolleyes:
The Portuguese complete US.

11. 1250 AD – 8 tiles to go. Capture Taejon. Capture Pyongsong.

Now we definitely have the win.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Bugs_2_Win.jpg
We’re magnificent.

Here’s the save for your Hall of Fame: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/?M=D

Thanks to all for a very interesting game. I think I will take Sirian’s original Gauntlet save and play that in a future SG.

Congratulations!

But I like OUR ending more. :)

Your whole game was more exciting. This one was a nail bitier until China was :hammer: Scout set that campaign up. Then Yom and Gator brought down the hammer :hammer: Game in the bag.

A pair of those and without infantry Korea will fall like Scoutsout after a 6-pack of Coors light :rotfl:A six-pack of bullets?!?! Aw man... :blush: I thought I'd made my bones well enough to at least rate a six of Guiness or Bass... pooh. feh... A six-pack o' bullets and which Ranger Batallion? :p (for some odd reason I'm feeling "defiant" this evening..)

@Bugsy: Nice finish! :thumbsup:

@Team: That was a heckuva lot of fun, I enjoyed it!

SB: Excellent finish - Those Sipahi Armies are really great to :hammer: on the AI with

Scout: :joke: Glad you've got a sense of humor, happy to play again with you anytime

Same to the rest of the team, great game and catch you all at the next one.

This was a great game everyone :D. Never underestimate the power of the Sihapi :hammer:. We literally ran over everyone once we got to Military Tradition.

@Denyd: I knew you were kiddin'.... just that I'd have expected the six-pack reference from Sesn for the mess I made in EOC2... from you I would have expected something more flamboyant... like maybe a toga party reference...

So what's next?

I'm down to two SG's (DD01 waiting for Conehead234 & SGOTM3, the Roman uphill battle) and since I bugged out on COTM3, I left waiting for GOTM34.

Anyone about to start a new SG?

Edit: Scout: I missed reading about EOC2. I will admit when I saw the situation when I began a couple of sets ago, I was certain you were in one of your hallucinogenic periods again :D

I'll be starting a third SG in about a week or two. I think I'm going to plagerize another idea from the RBCiv Epics. Those are some very challenging variants.