Americans rule because u might not be the strongest (I'm :)) but once u get to modern time u have a good chance of winning the game campared to other civs. You get your special until late in the game but if you survive until u get then the world should get ready for destruction.

If the F-15s actually worked, that is.

What do you mean, if they actually worked? I just started building some F15's....what's the problem?

Broken air superiority. Fighters just don't intercept AI bombers.

-Sev

If the Americans can last til the modern era they will rock the world because of the F-15. No one will challenge them in the air so they are able to bomb, amphibious attacks, paratroops and so on.

Exactly man, the only thing that I don't like about them is that they aren't millitersitic. Being a expansionist is dumb, you can just get a warrior to go and explor and they can defend them selves against barbs.

I think the Americans got riped off with their special unit.

1. Air units cant kill ground or sea units, just hurt them a little.
Like that happens in real life.

2. Air units will not give you a great leader. Even if they did it would not be of much use that late in the game.

3. the F-15 has a very weak increase in power. 8->10 just 25% where as the Egyptian War Chariot increses 100%. Although it is only 1->2, a War Chariot would have a much higher percentage of winning a battle compared to its standared Chariot, then a F-15 percentage of winning a fight compared to its counterpart the fighter jet.


Overall i don't consider the americans to have a "special unit".

I ran into this topic over on Apolyton, and the general consensus is that the F-15 as a special unit does kinda suck. The difference between it and a regular jet fighter is minimal (although we won't know how the dynamics works out until Firaxis fixes air superiority).

If you think about it, the signature US unit is really the Aircraft Carrier (but this would be difficult to implement, b/c the in order for the Carrier to win a battle, it basically has to get attacked by something else... and you generally don't want ANYTHING hitting your Carrier). I also pondered the ironclad (we were one of the first to come up with that one, and I'm almost positive we were the first to use them in battle - Civil War).

Expansionistic for America makes historical sense (Manifest destiny anyone?), but it is the weakest attribute in the game. You could argue that America is militaristic (though I disagree), you could argue that it is commercial, and you could argue that it is industrious. Just about the only one you can't is religious (notwithstanding our devout and fearless leader :D ). If I had to pick, I'd say commercial/industrious... like the French, but sky blue instead of pink :)

I'm sure people will come up with U.S. modpacks (one w/the USA and CSA would be cool) and mess with the unit and the attributes.

-Arrian

Air superiority really doesn't work. I was playing the Americans with the F-15's, they TRULY suck. The only thing they are better than normal jet fighters is they can do precision bombing, and THAT doesn't work, so they are just a waste. all they can do is recon and bomb. Propeller bombers are a better deal. catapults are a better deal. F-15's SUCK!!!!! Dont play americans.

:tank: :tank: :tank: Perhaps there is a less diplomatic approach.

Now u tell me:mad: ..LOL

I play the Americans and I found that the F-15s ablity to bomb highly useful, all you do is bomb the crap out of your foe and finish them off using a small land force. That is how NATO planned to beat the Commies in the Cold War, and it works for me.

I would agree that the U.S. is not milataristic. Not by the game's definition. Germany, Japan, Zulu, Rome, China. I don't think I missed any. Most of these had strong military cultures. I don't know about China though. Despite its skill at war, the US is not a military culture. A military career has never been as highly regarded in the US as it was in much of Europe. As historically compared to the Japanese we aren't milataristic at all. I know you can argue this point, but I think the designers made a good choice. You could justify scientific and commercial though.

in fact the usa is a militaristic nation, it has ever been. in the worldwar time mostly every nation was highly militaristic and the us need to become too. the usa won ww1 and ww2 with the brits, they won korea and desert storm and they fight continous secret wars all over the world. the usa has become the most militaristic nation in the world. now they are! among russia, china, britain and the sleeping japanese, avoid the japanese!! the thing with the europeans is that we have the us-british to fight our wars and we just trade and party. i think without the us-british europe could be invade even by the turks : )

thanks for doing it anglos!!

that reply reinforces my thought that the US and the Brits are the world's police force, oh well, we still can kick everyone's butts.

The U.S. may be becoming a milataristic nation. Historically I would argue that it was not. America had to be pulled into WWII. A milataristic society would have rushed in.

I think for the purposes of our discussion we need to keep in mind CIV3's likely definition: A civilization that supports a miliary establishment as a matter of course and where the best and brightest go to the military. This may be the case today for the US, but it was not in the past. Military families were the exception as opposed to the rule in the US. Many of the US's Military Academy graduates in WWII came from poor backgrounds and were looking for a free education. Eisenhower is the prime example of this. The same cannot be said for nations like Germany and Japan. In germany the military was the provence of the Prussian aristocracy. In Japan the miltary was based upon the samauri tradition of Bushido.

One thing to keep in mind, the civ abilities refer to the people as a whole, not the decisions of specific leaders. So even if you can point to the last 60 years and have evidence of American Militarism, I think it pales in comparison to expansionism and industriousness. I would even suggest that commercial comes in third, with scientific and militaristic tying. Religion is about the only one that won't fit.

Originally posted by knowltok
The U.S. may be becoming a milataristic nation. Historically I would argue that it was not. America had to be pulled into WWII. A milataristic society would have rushed in.

Considering the US military's problems in even meeting its recruitment quota, I doubt the US could really be considered a militaristic society for a while. :)

First time I played I thought the same thing, until I realized what
many have already said...

The F-15s don't work. They only make sense for air superiority
and you WILL NOT EVER shoot down an enemy bomber. You
could build a hundred of them (I had like 6 in one city on
air superiority at one time).

So, numbers aside, the Americans really got jobbed cause the
damn things are near useless.

I think the comment above about US needing a special aircraft carrier being good. Perhaps instead of a unit that adds offense/defense like all the other special units, a carrier that holds 5 planes would be better.

The whole game basicly sucks ass untill they fix air units IMHO. Air war is absoultly key to depicting any confilct from WW1 forward. The fact a WWII tank is far more powerfull than a modern fighter jet is hilarious to me.

I agree that they need to fix air war, and they probably will since it is obviously broken. That aside, I gave the Americans a try last night and I believe I can make the claim that they can expand faster than anyone. I was much larger than the AI on Monarch, which gives a few advantages to the AI. The key is to use expansionism for its true gift, pottery. Rush build a Granery right after a warrior, and if you have any type of food terain at all, you can crank out settlers till you cover a huge area. Industrious just adds to the effect if you build roads to your future city sites. In some of these you can build a granery too. Of course, if you play as another civ and get pottery from a hut you can do most of the same effect and still have two other specializations.