View Full Version : Stone/Bronze/Iron/Classical&Rennaissance


Tholish
Jun 19, 2004, 04:57 PM
This started as an attempt to meld all the Conquests into one mega scenario.
Spans 10000 BC to 1800 AD. Uses very little added art, so uploads fast.
Mostly just pediaicons and editor changes, but check out my reasoning and design. I thought I got it pretty good.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Ages3.zip

I've edited this top post with each upgrade.

The version for this is Conquests, with the 1.22 patch, except the patch installation deleted my editor, so I put the editor in a safe place, reinstalled Conquests, ran the patch installer, and kept the editor. So it might be original Conquests.

I keep the file "Ages" and the Biq "Ages3" both in the Conquests subdirectory of the Conquests directory, and suggest you do the same. The accompanying saved game should go in the Saves subdirectory of the Conquests directory.

Tsunami23
Jun 19, 2004, 07:22 PM
So what does it do? What are the changes?

Tholish
Jun 19, 2004, 07:40 PM
For details, see the Readme which is spread across three posts below.
Comprehensive reworking of all editor settings, using only standard units that came with Conquests. Focuses on the classic Stone Age (the paleolithic is telescoped in the quickly researched prerequisteless techs) Bronze Age (where you need the resources Copper and Tin to make bronze) iron Age (which includes the middle ages) and a combined Classical and Rennaissance, where you can make most of your wonders. I adopted a lot of the best gimmicks from the Conquests. There is extensive use of hidden nationality units. I've put a lot of effort into enhancing realism, or at least rationalizability, without sacrificing too much playability. In fact its quite chesslike in some of its challenges. The final age is a bit fanciful. But basically, I wanted to make a scenario that you could plausibly believe was the one real civs were playing, just with different circumstances. Real history could never have been by any stretch of the imagination a standard civ game.

PS: This screenshot was edited in later. The version you can download now will not look like this. The future version will look better.

Hint for success: use plains and grassland for agriculture, use forests to produce shields.

The Last Conformist
Jun 20, 2004, 02:49 AM
We'd love screenies.

rhialto
Jun 20, 2004, 05:03 PM
I downloaded teh file, but it doesn't seem to have *any* changes.

Uziq
Jun 20, 2004, 05:19 PM
I've checked the mod out and it's bad. The tech tree is in total disorder, one can't tell which tech is further down and which is the peer. With one of the first inventions You get Manhattan Project (dunno if You can actually build the nukes). Gameplay is unbalanced. Through first few turns You can't build anything, but every civ has one warrior, so it's easy to eliminate any civ You encounter. I see no point of playing this mod :(

Tholish
Jun 22, 2004, 06:14 PM
Here is the readme, only its more legible in the file.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Ages3.zip
CIVILIZATION ADVANCES
(Advances required to advance to next age in bold)
Advance prerequisites (Special Function)
Stone Age
Snares
Pottery
Mysticism
Council
Decoration
Warfare
Ceremonial Burial mysticism, decoration
Oligarchy council, warfare, agriculture
Hafting warfare
Art decoration
Polytheism mysticism, art
Fired Pottery pottery
Glazing fired pottery, art
Horticulture decoration
Sports warfare
Pictographs snares, art
Animal Domestication snares
Bow snares
Shield bow
Enslavement warfare, animal domestication
Agriculture horticulture, pottery
Trade animal domestication
Glyphs pictographs, trade
Irrigation agriculture
Mummification ceremonial burial
Metals glazing
Town Council council, agriculture (researches in one turn)
Sacrifice mysticism (permits sacrifice)
Bronze Age
Map Making (enables map trades)
Astronomy mapmaking,shipbuilding
Mining
Woodworking
Sailing
Ship Building sailing
Piracy shipbuilding
Alloys
Stoneworking woodworking, alloys
Wheel woodworking (doubles worker rate)
Chariotry the wheel
Siege Engine the wheel
Iron Working armor, mining, sailing, masonry
Masonry stonework, wheel
Currency alloys, monarchy
Code of Laws
Monarchy code of laws
Diplomacy monarchy (enables diplomats, rop, alliances)
Paper woodworking (allows communication trading)
Espionage diplomacy
Horseback Riding
Armor alloys
City Planning masonry, arithmetic
Imperialism currency
Arithmetic currency
Colonization city planning, imperialism
Sanitation city planning (disables diseases)
Literature
Iron Age
Alchemy
Philosophy alchemy
Education philosophy
Theocracy philosophy
Mathematics philosophy
Construction
Architecture construction
Monotheism architecture
Christianity monotheism
Engineering architecture, math (enables irrigation without water)
Merchant Guilds architecture (doubles effect of wealth improvements)
Feudalism (enables conscription)
Steel alchemy
Medieval Warfare fortification, steel
Fortification feudalism, construction
Horsemanship
Stirrup feudalism, horsemanship
Tandem Harness horsemanship, feudalism, forestry, crop rotation
(doubles worker rate)
Chivalry stirrup, medieval warfare, christianity
Forestry
Crop Rotation (enables recycleing)
Magnetism merchant guilds, steel (enables sea trade)
Polearms steel
Milling engineering
Trade Guilds merchant guilds (doubles worker rate)
Military Tactics
Alphabet
Republic alphabet, philosophy, feudalism
Military Strategy military tactics, theology
Divine Right theology
Protestantism divine right, christianity
Counter Reformation protestantism, religious persecution
Religious Persecution divine right
Art of War military tactics
Rennaissance and Classical Age
Artillery Tactics gunpowder, mil logistics
Naval Tactics naval ordnance, navigation, artillery tactics
Naval Ordinance matchlock
Navigation sci method, telescope (allows ocean trade)
Scientific Method printing press
Printing Press invention
Matchlock gunpowder
Flintlock wheel lock
Wheelock matchlock
Gunpowder invention, great wall
Banking
Military Tradition flintllock
General Education democracy
Code Civil democracy
Democracy gunpowder, printing press
Nationalism (allows mobilization, mutual prot pacts)
Mercantilism nationalism, economics (allows trade embargos)
Economics banking (doubles effect of wealth improvements)
Epic Works
Hanging Gardens epic works
Collosus epic works
Great Lighthouse epic works
Great Library epic works
Oracle epic works
Great Wall epic works
Magellans Voyage epic works, navigation
Copernicus Observatory epic works, telescope
Shakespeare's Theater epic works, drama
Leonardos Workshop epic works, invention
JS Bachs Cathedral epic works, music
Newtons University epic works, physics
Mausoleum of Mausolos epic works
Statue of Zeus epic works
Temple of Artemis epic works
Invention
Telescope invention
Drama
Music Theory invention
Physics scientific method
Military Logistics corporation, military tradition
Corporation

Tholish
Jun 24, 2004, 02:33 PM
COMBAT EXPERIENCE, CULTURE, DIFFICULTY LEVELS, DIPLOMATS AND SPIES, AND FLAVORS:
No change
CITIZENS
Laborer: default, no prereq
Shaman: 1 Luxury, req Mysticism tech (early stone age)
Merchant: 5 Taxes, req Trade tech (late stone age)
Scientist: 5 Research, req Glyphs tech (late stone age)
Artisan: 5 Construction, req Art tech (early stone age)
Theologian: 5 Corruption, req Theology (mid iron age)
CIVILIZATIONS
All standard, except: leaderheads are Ancient for stone and bronze age, medieval for iron and rennaissance
Nobody gets free start techs. All governors are set to build lots of workers and artillery, favorite govs have been changed, and nobody has a shunned gov.
ERAS
Stone Age: researchers are called Mystics
Bronze Age: researchers are called Wise Men
Iron Age: researchers are called Alchemists, Prophets, and Sages
Classical &Rennaissance: researchers are called Scientists, Scholars, and Inventors
WORLD SIZES Dimensions remain the same, as do optimal number of cities
World Size Distance Between Civs Number of Civs Tech Rate
Tiny 4 8 100
Small 6 12 100
Standard 6 16 100
Large 9 24 100
Huge 12 31 100
WORKER JOBS
Job Prereq Turns to complete
Mine Mining (early bronze) 16
Irrigate Irrigation (late stone) 16
Fortress Fortification (early iron) 4
Road Trade (mid stone) 24
Plant Forest Forestry (early iron) 36
Clear Forest Woodworking (early bronze) 24
Clear Wetlands Engineering (late iron) 48
Clear Damage No Prereq 24
Outpost Stoneworking (early bronze) 1
Barricade Fortification (early iron) 8
GENERAL SETTINGS
Move on roads=X2 (was X3)
Upgrade cost=X2 (was X4)
Food/Citizen=4 (was 2)
Gold/Shield=2(was 4)
Minimum and Maximum Research times= 1 to 1000
Forest Value=30 shields (was 10)
Cities per Army=1 (was 4)
Town max Pop=4 (was 6)
City max Pop=8 (was 12)
Start units: Settler, Axeman ((warrior), 2-1-1), Scout (no maint cost, upgrades to pioneer)
Barbarians: Marauder ((Chasqui Scout), 2-1-2, concealed nationality, enslaves to produce Pioneer (worker))
Barbarian ((Berserker), 6-2-1, concealed nationality, +1HP, enslaves to produce Barbarian
Pirate ((Galley), 2-1-2, trans 1, enslaves to produce Pirate, concealed nationality, coastal travel only)
NATURAL RESOURCES
Resource Food/Shields/Gold Type Appearance/Disappearance
Prereq Tech
Horses 1/1/1 Strat 50/50 Animal Domest (mid stone)
Iron 0/2/1 " 200/100 Iron Working (late bronze)
Saltpeter 0/1/2 " 100/50 Gunpowder (early Renn)
Coal 0/2/1 " 100/400 Steel (mid iron)
Oil 0/1/2 " 100/100 Alchemy (early iron)
Rubber 0/0/2 " 50/50 Sports (early stone)
Tin (aluminum) 0/1/2 " 100/100 Alloys (early bronze)
Copper(uranium) 0/2/1 " 150/100 Metals (late stone)
Wines 1/0/1 Lux 100/150 Glazing (mid stone)
Furs 1/1/1 " 150/50 Snares (early stone)
Dyes 0/1/1 " 0/50 Decoration (early stone)
Incense 0/0/2 " 0/50 Horticulture (early stone)
Spices 1/0/2 " 0/50 Horticulture (early stone)
Ivory 1/1/1 Strat 0/50 No prereq
Silks 0/0/3 Lux 0/50 The Wheel (early bronze)
Precious Stones 0/2/2 Strat 100/100 No Prereq
Whales 1/1/2 Bonus 0/0 Ship Building (early bronze)
Game 2/1/0 Strat 500/20 No Prereq
Fish 1/1/1 Bonus 0/0 Sailing (early bronze)
Cattle 2/1/0 Strat 500/100 Animal Domes (mid stone)
Wheat 2/0/0 Strat 500/100 Horticulture (early stone)
Precious Metals 0/1/3 Strat 100.100 Glazing (mid stone)
Sugar 2/0/1 Strat 50/100 Horticulture (early stone)
Fruit 3/0/0 Strat 500/100 Horticulture (early stone)
Oasis 2/1/1 Bonus 0/0 Horticulture (early stone)
Tobacco 0/0/2 Lux 0/50 Horticulture (early stone)
TERRAIN
Terrain (move cost per square) Food/Food w Irrigation Shields/Shields w Mine Gold/Gold w Road
Desert(2) 0/1 0/1 0/1
Plains(2) 2/5 1/2 0/1
Grassland (2) 3/5 0/1 0/1
Tundra (4) 1/1 0/1 0/1
Floodplains (2) 4/5 1/1 0/1
Hills (4) 1/2 1/3 0/1
Mountains (6) 0/0 0/2 0/1
Forest (4) 1/3 2/4 0/1
Jungle (6) 1/2 1/2 0/1
Marsh (4) 1/0 0/0 0/1
Volcano (6) 0/3 1/3 0/1
Coast (1) 2/0 1/0 1/0
Sea (1) 2/0 0/0 0/0
Ocean (1) 2/0 0/0 0/0


GOVERNMENTS
Government Cost/Unit Corruption Free Units Tilepenalty Tradebonus Maintcosts Hurry Warweariness Draft MP
Anarchy 3 com 0 y n y n h 0 0
Turmoil 3 cat 0 y n y n h 0 0
Tribal Council 2 ram 0 y n y n h 0 0
Despotism 0 ram all y n y n n 1 2
Town Council 2 prob 0 n n y n h 0 0
Oligarchy 2 ram 1/2/3 n n y n h 1 1
Monarchy 1 prob 1/2/3 n n y f l 1 2
Imperialism 1 com 0 n n y f l 2 4
Feudalism 1 ram 1/2/3 n n y p n 2 3
Cath Monarchy 1 prob 1/2/3 n n y f n 2 3
Prot Monarchy 1 nuis 1/2/3 n y y p l 1 2
Fascism 0 prob all n n y f n 0 0
Republic 2 nuis 1/2/3 n n n p l 1 0
Democracy 2 min 1/2/3 n y y p h 0 0
Const. Dem 1 min 1/2/3 n y y n l 2 2

Tholish
Jun 24, 2004, 02:38 PM
IMPROVEMENTS AND WONDERS
Palace--standard, except no culture, build cost only 10, no prereq
Barracks--req tech Armor (mid bronze)
Granary--cost 6, pollution 1, defense value 10, +50 perent tax, reduces corruption, doubles growth
req tech Fired pottery (early stone)
Temple--req tech Polytheism (mid bronze)
Marketplace--requires tech Currency (mid bronze), req building Granary
Library--requires tech Paper (early bronze)
Courthouse--requires tech Code of Law (early bronze)
Walls--defense 50, requires building Defenses, req tech Stoneworkign (early bronze)
think Babylon
Aqueduct--requires tech Masonry (mid bronze), allows city size 2
Bank--requires tech Banking (late iron), req building Marketplace
Cathedral--requires tech Christianity (mid iron), req building Temple, cost 16, main 2, 3 happy, 2 culture
replaces buildings Church and Altar
University--requires tech Eduction (early iron), req building Library
Colloseum--requires tech Architecture (early iron)
Church (looks like manufacturing plant)--costs 10, maint 0, culture 2, 2 happy
requires tech Protestantism, replaces buildings Cathedral and Altar
Crop Rotation (looks like recycling center)--costs 5, requires building Granary, tech Crop Rotation (early iron)
reduces building pollution
Sewage System (looks like hydro plant)--costs 5, requires tech Sanitation (late bronze), 1 happy, 1 maint
Mill (looks like nuclear plant)--requires building Granary, req tech Milling (late iron), cost 15, 1 main, production +50 %
Sacrificial Altar (looks like researc lab)--costs 2, maint 1, culture 5, requires goverment Despotism, req tech Sacrifice (early stone)
doubles sacrifice,replaces buildings Cathedral and Church, happiness 2, unhappiness in all cities 1
Ball Court (looks like mass transit)--costs 3, maint 1, culture 2, requires tech Sports (early stone), req resource Rubber,
makes 2 happy
Worker Housing (looks like sam battery)--costs 8, maint 1, pollution 1, allows city size 3,
requires tech City Planning (late bronze), req building Sewage System
Fortifications (looks like coastal fortfications) requires tech Fortification, req building Walls, cost 4, defense 150, maint 3
think Constantinople
Public School (looks like solar plant) requires tech General Education, cost 6 maint 2, +50% research, resist propaganda, corruption, and war weariness
Harbor--req tech Ship Building (early bronze)
Crane (looks like offshore platform)--requires tech Engineering, cost 24, maint 2, +75% production
Defenses (looks like airport)--requires tech Warfare (early Stone Age)
+25 defense, cost 2 maint 0
think Jericho
Police Station--req tech City Planning (late bronze)
The Pyramids--req tech Mummificaiotn, (mid stone), req resource Copper, req building Temple times 5,
doubles happiness of burial mounds
Sun Tzus art of War--req tech Art of War (mid Iron)
Other Ancient and Medieval Great Wonders are as usual except all cost 5 maintenance and all reduce corruption as Forbidden Palace,
all have prerequisites in the Rennaisance/Classical. All the ones that were actually built in ancient times merely require Epic Works tech,
others require further techs, many require their own special tech.
Graffitti (looks like universal suffrage)--requires tech Pictographs (mid stone) cost 1, maint 1 culture 1 made obsolete by tech Glyphs
The Inquisition (looks like hoover dam) req tech Counter Reformation (late iron), req gov Catholic Monarchy, costs 20, maint 5, culture 10, makes 1 citizen unhappy in all cities, doubles sacrifice, makes resistance to propaganda, doubles combat vs barbarians, gain a Cathedral in all cities, reduce corropution, reduce war weariness, produces one Inquisitor unit per 2 turns, and allows air trade (only building that does) so Inquisitors can airdrop anywhere you have explored. Made obsolete by scientific method...Great Wonder
Unique Sports (looks like theory of evolution)--requires tech Sports (early stone), requires building Palace in same city, culture 3 cost 5 maint 0, makes 1 happy in all cities
Workshop (looks like manhattan project)--requires tech Glazing (mid stone) 1 maint, 1 cult, 2 cost, +50% production
Medicine (looks like cure for cancer)--requires tech Alchemy (early iron) allows healing in enemy territory, cost 10 cult 3
Distinctive Decor (looks like longevity)--requires tech Decoration (early stone), requires building Palace in same city, cost 1, cult 1, maint 0
Mathematics--(looks like seti program)--requires tech Mathematics (early iron) cost 10, cult 3, doubles research output...Minor Wonder
Heroic Epic--does not require victorious army: requires tech Literature, reduces corruption, increases leader chance
Iron Works--as usual, no prereq
Forbideden Palace--req tech Construction (early iron)
Military Academy--req tech Military Strategy(mid iron), does not require a victorious army
Pentagon--req tech Miltiary Logistics (late renn), req 3 armies, build armies AND larger armies
Wall Street--req tech Corporation (early Renn), 5 stock exchanges,
Naturalism (looks like Apollo project)--req tech Philosophy (early Iron), cost 10, cult 5, doubles research, +2 free advances
The Great Temple (looks like SDI)--req tech Monotheism (early Iron), cost 50 maint 5, cult 1; doubles combat vs barbs, +1 trade/tile, increase leader chance, reduces corruption, allows healing in enemy territory, reduces war weariness, doubles defenses, doubles happiness of temple, gain church in every city
Intelligence Agency--requires tech Espionage (mid bronze) allows spy missions, produces one Spy unit per 5 turns
The Church(looks like battlefield medicine)--replaces altar, church or cathedral. requires tech Christianity, req gov Catholic Monarchy, culture 10, no maint, reduces corruption, gain a temple in every city, double happiness of temple, 3 happly locally
Plantations and Mines (look like spaceship parts)--all cost 1, all require tech Colonization (late bronze) and each requires a resource inside the city limits. All produce a treasure every 21 turns. The names are Gold, Ivory, Dye, Spice, Incense, Wine, Furs, Gems, and Silk (the more compact luxuries)
Printing Press (looks like spaceship engine)--req tech Prining Press (mid renn) 5 cult, cost 10, 0 maint, 1 happy, +50% research luxury and tax, resist propaganda corruption and war weariness
Stele (looks like internet)--req tech Glyphs (late stone) cost 1, culture 1, maintenance 0
Burial Mound (looks like civil defense)--requires tech Ceremonial Burial (early stone) cost 3, happy 1, main 0, cult 0
Stock Exchange req tech Corporation (early renn)
Commercial Dock--requires tech Colonization (late bronze)
Secret Police--requires tech Espionage (early bronze) cost 20 reduces corruption

UNITS regarding the Attack-Defense-Movement numbers: remember most terrains slow movement to one half, so Archer, with 2-1-3, has 3 movement
points and thus moves 2 squares in most cases. (The only effect of this doubling is to allow more blitz attacks and bombards, and to get wierd sieges where the last defender is killed and the besieging unit pauses a turn before moving in, allowing you one last chance to get a rescuer there. Thought it was cool!)
Settler--requires tech Agriculture (mid stone age)
Pioneer (worker)--requires tech Animal Domestication (mid stone age)
Scout--requires tech Snares (early stone age) zero maintenance cost, upgrades to pioneer
Explorer--requires tech Mapmaking (early bronze) hidden nationality, has a wierd ghost effect where it can share squares with hostiles!
Axeman (warrior)--ADM=2-2-2, requires tech Hafting (early stone), costs only 5 shields
Archer-requires tech Bow (mid stone) 2-1-3, blitiz, bombard attack 2 at range 0
Spearman--rquires tech Sheild (late stone), resources Tin and Copper, 2-4-2
Broadsword--requires tech Feudalism (early iron) , req resource Iron, 5-3-2
Charioteer--requires tech Whee(early bronze)l, req resource Horses 6-1-4, -1 hp
Horseman--requires tech Horseback riding(early bronze), req resource Horses 3-1-6
Pikeman--requires tech Polearms (late iron), req resource Iron 3-1-6
Longbow--requires tech Forestry (early iron), req resource Iron, bombard 6 at range 0 three times, blitzes 6-1-3
Matchlock (looks like musketman)--requires tech Mathlock, bombard 12 at range 0, 12-10-1
Knight--requires tech Chivarly (late iron) req resource Iron, 9-8-4, blitz, zoc
Catapult--requires tech Siege Engine (mid bronze) moves 1 wheeled, bombard 8 once at 1 range, no maintenance cost
Cannon--requires tech Gunpowder, req resources Tin, Copper, Saltpeter, moves 1 wheeled, bombard 24 once at 1 range
no maintenance cost
Galley-3-2-3, pop cost 1, requirest tech Shipbuilding (early bronze)
Caravel 1-2-2, transports 2, travels on sea, requires teach Astronomy (mid bronze)
Frigate 16-8-4, bombard 1X24@1, requires tech Naval Ordnamce (mid renn) req resources Copper, Tin, Saltpeter, travels ocean
Galleon 1-4-4, transports 4, travels ocean, requires tech Navigation (mid renn)
Hatcheteer (looks like Jaguar Warrrior) 2-2-2, requires tech Shield (late stone) req resource Copper
Bowman 4-1-3, bombard 2X4@0, requires tech Arithmetic (late bronze, ie geometry of recurved and compound bows),
req resource Copper (not much tin needed for the quantity of bronze in a few little arrowheads)
Hoplite 3-6-1 requires tech Armor (mid bronze), requires resources Copper and Tin
Warrior (looks like impi) requires tech Shield (late stone) requires resource Precious Stones (ie, obsidian or superior flint)2-3-2
Legionary requires tech Imperialism (late bronze), requires resources Iron, Copper, Tin, Costs 1 pop, Terraforms, HP+1, 6-6-2
Shortsword (looks like immortals) requires resources Tin, Copper 4-2-2
War Chariot requires Horses, Tin, Copoper, req tech Chariotry (mid bronze), 8-1-5, -1 hits
Cataphract (looks like Rider) 5-2-5, req Horses,Iron, req tech Armor, has zoc
Horse Archer (looks like mounted warrior) req Horses, req tech Arithmetic, has zoc, blitz 3-1-6,bombard 3X2@0
Flintlock (looks like musketeer) req Saltpeter, Iron, Stones (representing flint) req tech Flintlock (late renn) 16-12-2, blitz, zoc
bombard 16X2@0
Samurai req Iron, Coal, req tech Military Strategy (late iron) 8-4-3, blitz
War Elephant req Ivory, req tech Horseback Riding (early bronze) 4-2-3, HP+1
Cavalry (looks like cossack) req Iron, Saltpeter, req tech Military Tradition (late renn) 24-6-6, bombard 24X1@0, zoc, blitz
ManOWar req Copper, Tin, Saltpeter, req tech Naval Tactics (late renn) 24-16-5, bombard 32X2@1, lethal
Privateer req tech Gunpowder (early renn) req Tin, Copper, Saltpeter, 10-6-3, bombard 16X1@1 lethal, concealed nationality, enslaves to produce privateer
Horde(looks like Keshik) 6-3-5+3, requires Iron, req tech Horsemanship (early iron) zoc, blitz, 6-3-5, bombard 6X3@0, costs 1 pop
Dragoon (looks like conquistador) 12-6-4, req Iron, Saltpeter, req tech Matchlock, has Zoc, bombard 1X8@0
Barbarian (looks like berserker) 6-2-2, req Iron, cost 1 pop, hidden nationality, enslaves to produce barbarian
Pistolier (looks like sipahi) 16-8-5, req tech Wheelock(mid renn), req Iron, Saltpeter, has zoc
Freebooter (looks like gallic sword) 5-1-2, req tech Piracy, req Iron, has hidden nationality, amphib assault, enslaves to produce pioneer
Lancer (looks like ansar warrior) 8-3-5, requires tech Stirrup (mid Iron), req resource Iron
Picket (looks like numidian mercenary) 1-5-2, requires resource Iron
Rocket Cart (looks like Hwacha) moves 2 wheeled, req Saltpeter, req tech Gunpowder (early renn) bombard 12X2@1, lethal, no maintenance cost
Medieval Infantry 6-8-1, requires Iron, req tech Medieval Warfare (mid iron)
Militia (looks like enkidu warrior) 1-2-1, requires tech Warfare (early stone) costs 1 pop, +1 hp
War Wagon (looks like 3 man chariot) 7-2-3, requires tech Chariotry (mid bronze) req resources Horses and Iron, has blitz and bombsrd of 4X1@0
Carrack 1-3-4, transports 3, travels ocean, requires tech Magnetism (early renn)
Swiss Mercenary, 3-7-2, requires Iron, Coal, req tech Counter Reformation
Trebuchet, bombard 16X1@1, move 2 wheeled, no maintenance, requires tech Construction (early iron)
Marauder (looks like chasqui scout) 2-1-3, hp -1, costs 15, hidden nationality, enslaves to produce pioneer, requires tech Enslavement (mid stone)
Javeliner 2-1-2, bombard 2X1@0, requires tech Hafting (early stone)
Dromon 6-3-3, transports 1, bombard 12X2@1 lethal, requires resource Oil, zoc, blitz
Crusader 8-6-1, requires Iron, Coal, req tech Religious Persecution (late iron)
Bronze Cavalry (looks like ancient cavalry) requires tech Armor (mid bronze) req Horses, Tin, Copper, zoc, 4-2-4
Boat (looks like curragh) 0-0-1, transports 1, travels coast, requires tech Sailing (early bronze)
Battery (looks like cannon) moves 3, bombard 32X2@1, requires tech Artillery Tactics (late renn) req Copper, Tin, Saltpeter, no maint
Pirate (looks like galley) 3-3-2, travels coast, transports 1,bombard 3X1@1 (upriver raids) blitz, hidden nationality, enslaves to produce pirate, hidden nationality
Treasure--produced by plantations and mines, worth 50 gold when siezed by unit and transported to palace
Inquisitor--requires tech Religious Persecution (late iron) 4-8-2, airdrops anywhere you have explored, bombard 12X1@6, settles, invisible and detects invisible, starts golden age, enslaves to produce settler, only produced by great wonder Inquisition
Spy--only produced by minor wonder Intelligence Agency, requires tech Espionage (mid bronze) 4-1-2, stealth attacks anything, enslaves to produce spy,
invisible and detects invisible, does NOT have concealed nationality

rhialto
Jun 24, 2004, 04:35 PM
Hmm, some thoughts...

Historically, horses weren't domesticated until about 4000BC, well into the bronze age.

It seems counter-intuitive to have iron and bronze discovered in the era before the one that they gave their name to. Similarly, discovering precious metals in teh stone age sems odd.


Graffiti as a great wonder?

"not much tin needed for the quantity of bronze in a few little arrowheads"

Maybe. Not much copper required either. But without the tin, it isnt bronze. But once you multiply an arrowhead by the number loosed by a soldier, and multiply that by the number of soldiers, and multiply that by teh number of battles, you get a lot of metal.

Tholish
Jun 24, 2004, 05:13 PM
Someday a civilopedia will come.

Grafitti is an improvement, it just uses a wonder icon.
Horses show up in the mid stone age (actually the mid neolithic, since that is what I mean by stone age, the only part represented) as an available resource, but they can't be used for anything but food, since you don't have horseback riding or the wheel.
Possibly, about the bowman, though tin is the smaller portion of the mix, but theres also a gameplay reason: I wanted bowman to be easier to make than, say, hoplite.
Yes, precious metals can be worked with less technology than, for example, bronze, since they are soft. Thus you get them about the time you get glazed pottery, when your craftsmen are exploring new ways to use materials (often involving applied heat).
You have to have the stuff before the age that gives it its name. Otherwise you are in, say, the Iron Age already,and researching Iron, which you dont have yet. And you can be bronze age in almost all cultural ways and still somehow be using iron in a primitive way. And in fact I split the bronze: you get metals (ie, raw copper, like the icemans axe) in the stone age, then you proceed to the bronze age, where you research alloys.
That's the kind of response I like. Let me explain my reasoning!

rhialto
Jun 24, 2004, 05:25 PM
ok, I see your point on everything except the precious metals.

First, bronze and gold both have quite low melting points - both will melt long before you get the right temperature to fire pottery glazes.

Second, the original precious metal was in fact iron. A lot of bronze age jewellery used iron. Beaten that is, not forged. If youre going to have precious metals appear in teh stone age, it shouldnt be until you have the ability to set the metal into some kind of jewellery piece, which requires the ability to forge some kind of soft metal at least, regardless of the "precious" metal actually involved. Its only precious if you can turn it into something wearable after all.

HahnHolio
Jun 24, 2004, 05:56 PM
Gonna try this tomorrow ... iŽll tell u what i think then :)

greetz HahnHolio

Tholish
Jun 25, 2004, 04:39 AM
Try this:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Ages3.zip
Something went wrong when I fixed a few little things between Ages (the one that got panned above) and Ages1 and it started crashing. So I just imported everything to a new biq and it works fine. Hope it works good for you.

Lachlan
Jun 25, 2004, 11:07 AM
your scenario is in building ?

It's seem very cool :goodjob:

Tholish
Jun 25, 2004, 02:39 PM
Every time I playtest it I make tweaks.

The design is pretty much complete and it plays, but can always use improvement, especially visually. For example, I will eventually offer the "Buildings" picture so Stele, for example, uses the Stele icon from the Mesoamerica Conquest instead of using the Internet icon, which only vaguely resembles a Stele if you don't look too close.

And, of course, I need to do a civilopedia. Though, to rationalize, rulers of ancient civilizations didn't have civilopedias or tech trees. They had to guess. Which I'm not doing, admittedly, since I wrote it.

Today I will post a saved game, the Arabs in 580 BC, Emperor level on a large map. They had Ivory so they had some success with War Elephants. Also I include an earlier version of the same game, when all the AIs were trying to send Settlers through my territory to take advantage of the area left empty by the stunted Netherlands civ, and I just beefed up my enslaved worker population by picking them off with Marauders. (For some reason, the human player can use stone age Marauders (2-1-2, concealed nationality, looks like Chasqui Scout) to attack anything but cities, whereas the AI can take cities with them. The iron age Barbarian unit (6-2-1, concealed nationality, looks like Berserker), on the other hand, can take cities, even in human hands. Don't know how that happened but I like it.)
PS: (edited in later) the Barbarian thing worked in Ages1, but now the human controlled Barbarians can't attack cities any more than human controlled Marauders can. Oh well. Legions do that job just fine.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Abu_Bakr_of_the_Arabs,_580_BC.zip

Lachlan
Jun 25, 2004, 11:33 PM
Infortunately it crash in the start

Tholish
Jun 26, 2004, 05:36 PM
Darnit it did, in the Ages1 version, just because I fixed a few inaccuracies in the design. Crashed in mid stone age for no known reason. I kept trying and it quit doing it, but I thought I had it licked in the Ages2 version. Guess not. Anyway, after I playtested the AbuBekr game below (which is original Ages version) I made a few more fixes in later ages to Ages2, saved it, and imported everything to a brand new biq yet again, which produced Ages3. I've tested this twice, and it hasn't crashed. A saved game is included in the Zip, with the Celts having just entered the Bronze Age on a Large map on Emperor difficulty. They are at war with the Koreans, who don't seem to do anything but make military units and attack. Other civs are expanding slower and researching faster as usual.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Ages3.zip

This fix may be too late, everybody that would have tried it is now turned off.
Anyway, anytbody think you think you could check it out and see if its OK now? I've deleted everything from my own hardrive and will now download from the site and see if it works for me.

Horrible disaster, though. Not a good way to put forward this fundamentally good scenario. Darn. How did it get corrupted, what happened? I hate to think its because I ran Norton with the updated definitions and killed some bugs.

Anyway, the file below is last night's playtesting of the old version that didn't crash but Longbowmen didn't have blitz and a few silly things I fixed only to get punished with this crashing thing. http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Abu_Bakr_of_the_Arabs,_1136_AD.zip
Abu Bekr has gotten up into the Rennaissance and has held onto his
Empire until now, but is being severely challenged by the Scandinavians. Might have to stop building Wonders and make military units. Can't switch to Protestant Monarchy now, need the Feudalism for the no-war-weariness thing. Probably. Don't even have enough units out of the fight to collect treasure--its just piling up in backwater towns. And they captured all my cannons.

PS
Actually the link in the thread in Scenarios is better. Actually has the right saved game and readme included. And everytihng is fine, I'm playtesting like crazy and it doesn't crash at all. And its fun. The marauders thing is just a lot huger than I thought it would be, but it doesn't make it a bad game, just a different one than I had in mind.
IMFMask30,8,1000,800,