Nations:
Japan (The Team)
Korea
China
Portugal
Spain
England
Netherlands
Aztecs

Barbarians: RAGING.
Climate: NORMAL.
LandForm: ARCHIPELAGO.
Map Size: STANDARD.
Ocean Coverage: 60%.
Temperature: COOL.
World Age: 3 BILLION YEARS.
World seed: 42776459

Variant Rules:

Arathorn's Defiant Variant with the added requirement of only Despotism, Feudalism, and Fascism for governments.


Defiant Variant: You must never give in to a demand from an opponent, that is, you always reject demands for tribute. You may never ally, sign a Right of Passage, MPP, or embargo with another civilization. You may never pay for peace (a peace treaty must either be straight-up or the opponent gives a concession to you. A deal where a tech costs 20 gpt normally and you pay 10 gpt for that tech as part of a peace treaty is fine). Any troops on your soil must be given a boot order every turn. No capturing foreign cities or demanding them in diplomacy. No foreign workers merged into existing cities. If an AI razes one of your cities, that civ must be eliminated.



Roster Complete

SesnOfWthr
Sir Bugsy
DeceasedHorse
SirLenTaft
Bede
scoutsout

Start Position:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bede02TheStart.SAV

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bede02TheStart.jpg

Strict 24hrs to post got it/24hrs from got it to post log and save/48hrs total. All requests for skips automatically honored. (Please include an order of go at the end of your turnlog).

Thanks to LKendter for developing definitive rules of non-exploitative play:


The following tactics are PROHIBITED:

RoP Rape - if you have to ask...

RoP Abuse that includes things such as irrigating all tiles with a city building wonders, denying resources with a RoP, putting a unit to block a land bridge, etc.

Scout resource denial - parking a scout on a resource, as the AI won't ask scouts to leave. The same scenario also applies to workers.

False Peace Treaties (must wait for the 20 years to end).

The negative science exploit - you can run a huge deficit (-250 / turn) of negative cash with a token penalty of one lost worker / cheap building. If cash will go below zero, the research level must be dropped.

Ship chaining exploit - you can move a ship, unload troops to another ship, move that ship, etc. This allows you to ship an indefinite distance, and that is why I consider it an exploit.

Resources disconnect / connect exploit - I consider most resource tactics fine. Delaying to hook a resource, trading it away etc is fine. The exploit is to do this every turn. Build a stack of horses, connect saltpeter, upgrade to cavalry, and disconnect.

Palace Jump - You abandon the capital city to move the palace to a new location. If you want to move the palace, build a new palace.

House rules:
1) Worker automation of any kind is prohibited.
2) No worker purchases during the first 50 turns to avoid civ crippling.
3) Declaring war / demanding leave solely for the purpose of getting out of trade deals. This includes nonsense spying simply to force a war. Stealing techs is fine.
4) Even if not covered under exploits listed, please try not to use tactics that take advantage of holes in the game design.
5) Our trading reputation is golden - please respect it.
6) Complete your turn. It is frustrating to get a 1/2 completed turn.


Bede's reminder to the scribes: All of us here are sufficently familiar with the mechanics of the game that detailed turn logs are not necessary. Report significant events like trades, wonder starts, wars(!), peace treaties....The reasoning, the whys and wherefores, IMNSHO, makes more interesting reading than the detailed steps of execution.

So, who wants to go first? (20 turns the first round of play, ten thereafter)

Checking in. Subscribing. Not all that anxious to go first, but I'll take up the gauntlet if no one else will.

I wouldn't mind a casual start, not LeMans, so we can wait for the rest of the team to check in, I think.

I'll go first if you wish honorable Bede-sama. I can play during lunch tomorrow. Looks like a settle on the spot. Shall I go pottery at max?

Btw, What level is this?

Domo arigato, Bugsy-san.

It's Demigod.

Samurai need cups for sake and cha, go for it.

Has anybody considered ICS and Feudalism?

Feudalism is one of our three allowed governments (Despotism, Feudalism. Fascism).

So ICS is definitely the way to go (thematically flavorrful as well).

Order of go
Sir Bugsy-Samurai prime-playing now
SirLenTaft-European, no? So if you play after SirB, that will support an east-west rotation-on deck
SesnOfWthr-NY
DeceasedHorse-'Bama, no? so you're CDT
Bede-EDT
scoutsout-EDT, in this slot by request

If somebody with a more graphic imagination can put together an order that works better, please go ahead

SesnOfWthr-NY


I have no gripe with your roster, other than the two letters next to my name.

Come on Bede, you're capable of a far better joke than that one. :p

Sesn - I live in Washington state and am an avid Sox fan (OK, I spent a great deal of time in Maine). Red Sox nation is everywhere. Yes, even in NY. :hatsoff:


BTW- I got it. Expect the first dispatches on the new Nippon in about 4-5 hours.

Don't get me wrong, I know the believers are nationwide (case in point: recent series against Colorado and SF where Sox got bigger cheers than the hometeam), but I'm far too brash and outspoken in my support of the Sox to last more than a week or so in NY.

No matter, I'll stop the threadjack here. :)

Playing on 1.22. Shogun Bugsy ascends the throne. (well not really a throne, more like a piece of rock that isn’t quite level and it makes your butt hurt if you sit on it too long.)

Move the worker to the wheat, then settler in place. I place the citizen on the BG to get a warrior in five. I go pottery at max, due in 23.

First warrior is produced in 3800 BC, he is named Ichiro. He runs up the wheat road to the hill and sees a great body of water about five tiles away. Shogun Bugsy calls it the “sea.” “Such wisdom,” the people say.

In 3550 BC, Ichiro, who has been traveling north, sees some rolling hills north of our city. That year also see the graduation from our Boot Camp of our second warrior. Our expanding boarder pops the hut and disturbs some yokels. The new warrior, dubbed Nissan, fortifies in the capitol for defensive purposes.

All three barbs head our way, and then threaten our worker. The worker is recalled from the fields for protection.

In 3400 BC – a third warrior is graduated from boot camp and the barbs start destroying improvements. :cringe: The new warrior is named Mitsu. He attacks the pillaging barb and is slightly wounded while removing the barbarian’s head.

On the next turn, brave Mitsu sustains another more severe wound, as he collects the heads of the remaining barbarians. Shogun Bugsy rewards Mitsu with elite status for his courage. With our city safe, Bugsy sends Nissan to explore the uncharted western lands.

In 3300 BC, a fourth warrior is produced, named Shigo. (yes, I’m trying to use Japanese numbers). Pottery is due in eight turns, I decide to build a barracks. It appears we will be able to set up a five or six turn settler-warrior factory. The barracks will help us there.

Shigo is sent to the east, Nissan to the west reports a coastline quite close. Ichiro finds a northern coastline. Could we be all alone?

Ichiro finds some horses along the northwestern coast.

In 3100 BC, our new barracks is completed, and the foundation for a new building is begun. Shogun Bugsy tells the Shinto priests that they are building a temple, but he has seen the work of his scientists and plans on making the new building a granary when the new pottery technology is announced.

It appears there won’t be anything but water to our east.

After Action Report: Switch over the temple to a granary when pottery comes in. It appears we will probably need go for Alphabet next and settle on the coast for a curraugh. I would then go towards Philosophy and get Map Making as the free teach and try for the lighthouse since I think we are all by ourselves. There is a chance to the southwest for a land brige, but I’m not holding my breath.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bede_02_3000_BC.jpg

Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bede02,_3000_BC.SAV

Roster Check:

Sir Bugsy - Just played
SirLenTaft - Up
SesnOfWthr - On deck
DeceasedHorse
Bede
scout

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bede_02_3000_BC_dot_map.jpg

Some early dot map ideas. I would use red dot for a curraugh/lighthouse/galley production center.

Blue dot can probably build workers, we'll need a lot up in our northern hills.

Yellow and green dots would grab the wheat and the water.

Wheat, water, and sugar...Suntori!

Hills and mountains for iron and other goodies and an island to ourselves...nice beginning I say.

'Twere I, send the curragh out of yellow dot, as red dot is near the bottom of the map and there is a warrior that will open that area for us shortly. We seem to be bang in the middle of the map, so I guess it's really a horse apiece.

Nice go, Bugsy

Given my first experience with a hut, I decided not to pop the two to the south. In my experience, demi-god huts are next to worthless. Maybe go down there with several units to whack the barbs when they pop out :hammer:

Wheat, water, and sugar...Suntori!
Fish & whale => sushi & kujira!!

Fish & whale => sushi & kujira!!Hey - is it too late to add the GOTM Squid unit?

It looks like we've got a little breathing room to start with, which is nice...

@ Bugsy: Do you see any way to tighten the build a little bit? IIRC, towns give us more support than cities under feudalism... a nice tight build with lots of little bitty towns might give us some decent unit support...

Oh, yes! a tight build is what we want. I just thought we would want to nab those spots first and fill in the rest later. If we are by ourselves, then the spot on the southern coast would be good for the lighthouse.

Ok, I'm finally here. :)
European as said, Swede to be exact. I'll play it tomorrow, a bit to late right now.

I would go for the the yellow dot as the second city, building the curragh if we're alone. The red dot will likely need more military protection, but there's always a small chance for a goodie! ;)
Still a good spot that should be settled early...
If we want to tighten the city placement, we could move the green dot to steps NW, fit in one city on the hill south if the current green dot and put another city two steps NE of the green dot. Not as good, but if we want it tight...

I actually live in Southern California, so I'm on Pacific standard time.

Oh, checking in. And tight builds or no, we need to get a city down near that lake ASAP so we can get some fresh water over to that wheat and down south to the plains.

DH - it's hard to see with the location of the name bar on the screen, but there is a lake one tile south of Kyoto.

Beyond the next city, I wouldn't worry too much about a dotmap until we can see the rest of the surrounding area.

The only thing I'm a bit concerned with is the location of luxes, if any. Well, the only thing I'm worried about so far, at least.

@ DH - Sesn is right, Kyoto is built on a lake.

I hadn't noticed this before Sesn's post... have we not discovered a single lux yet? :eek:

Nope, yep, whatever, there are no luxes in sight.

Another reason to make a beeline to map making. Stick a settler and a warrior on every galley.

Ruling over the Japanese reaches in a 1000 years, the descendants of the clan Bugsy is force from the throne of the Shogun after a civil war lasting the 50 years following the year 3000 BC. After a bloody war, leaving no damages to Japan, Shogun Len Taft takes control over the to-becoming-empire of Japan. At least that's the vision of this great man, which ascendence(sp?) lead to a breakthrough for our scientists, the art of Pottery is finally known.

The Temple-in-construction is changed to a Granary, which will help fed our people and let them grow in numbers. Shogun Len Taft commands his scientists that he need a system to deliver messages in other forms than speech. In his enormous wisdom, he predict that the product of the scientists will be know as an Alphabet. Our western scout, Nissan reports back sightings of large mammals with huge tusks roaming the plains to SW (finally a luxury, one Ivory!), and the shogun wonders if they might be used to entertain the people?

In 2900 BC, Nissan sends reports that beyond the mountains at the end of the Plains of the Elephants, there seems to be more land for us to settle, but also of babarians with hostile intentions. Nissan is ordered to avoid these hostile men and follow the mountain reaches south.

By 2750 BC, our glorious capital has reach a greater size than ever before, and shows now signs of slowing down.

After action report: As said one ivory was found to SW, just below the oasis. There seems to be a rather large land mass beyond those mountains, maybe as large as our current land. I also think there is three babs in about the position of Nissan after Bugsy's turn, coming towards Kyoto.
Anyone that could recommend a good snapshot program? Print screen doesn't work on my new keyboard, so I can't provide anything visual right now.

SAVE: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bede02,_2550_BC.SAV

So we're not on an island. That is good news. It also means we have a very defensible position from which we can be defiant as we wanna be. That would make a good song
scout => :band: <= bugs (That's Bede singing)
We're defiant as we wanna be!
You can stick your demand
Where the sun don't shine
We're the Japanese and
We're doin' just fine.
WE'RE DEFIANT AS WE WANNA BE!!!

That reminds me of a joke my kid brother once told me... what do you call a guy with no talent who hangs around with musicians? The drummer.... :rockon:

Having lost a drummer in our band, and having a less than optimal replacement, I shall never say drummers have no talent. A good drummer is worth their weight in gold. They can make or break you.

Solid beginning.

Burning question: after Alphabet, Writing, then Map Making, or the top of the tree?

Map Making will improve our research abilities (more contacts, though with three seafarers in the fog and the minimum water I would expect to see wandering dinghies pretty soon) while the upper tier just might get us to Ancient Cavalry.

How long to get two more towns down?


Roster Check:

Sir Bugsy - Samurai Prime
SirLenTaft - Samurai Secundus
SesnOfWthr - Samurai Terce UP *************<
DeceasedHorse - sharpening the war axe-Fourth Samurai
Bede
scout

If we start a prebuild for the Statue of Zeus not too far down the road, I would go towards math, and then towards currancy.

Got it. Will play very shortly.

That reminds me of a joke my kid brother once told me... what do you call a guy with no talent who hangs around with musicians? The drummer.... :rockon:

Hey, I know some drummers, and they have talent. I'm not one myself; I'm a percussionist. I'm too talented to be a drummer. ;)

okayokayokay - my kid brother was a no-talent drummer...

For the record, I'm more of a logical person, so my creative writing is boring, at best. Forgive me if I pull a Joe Friday.

The first thing I notice is the granary and growth both happening in 2. AFAIK, this is a :nono:, as the granary should be done the turn before to get the benefit immediately. Best I can do is slow growth till the third turn.

As for Bede’s question regarding the two settlers – I’ll get one city founded during my turns, but definitely not two, another 7 turns maybe for that?

2510 bc (1) – Since there are two warriors there, I pop the SW hut. We get barbs. Surprise!

2470 bc (2) – Kyoto starts settler. Ichiro gets rl and promotes.

2430 bc (3) – I have the honor of making first contact. Meet Portugese scout:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bede02_Henry.JPG

2390 bc (4) – Ichiro and Shugi finish the barbs, with Ichiro getting a second promotion. :D

2350 bc (5) – Nissan freezes exploring the tundra, hoping to find some furs.

2310 bc (6) - :sleep:

2270 bc (7) – Kyoto finishes settler, starts another.

2230 bc (8) – Shigo helps the settler towards our next encampment.

2190 bc (9) – :sleep:

2150 bc (10) – I found our second future metropolis, named Osaka. Really torn on the build there so I set for barracks. I imagine this city will be a military city, as we can already make a 5 turn factory in Kyoto, assuming we can keep the people happy.

Recap: Met Henry, he’s way ahead as should be expected. Another MP and a temple would be enough for a 5 turn factory in Kyoto. I would probably recommend sending one of the next couple settlers down to the hill SW of the ivory, as this also gets us some extra horses for trade. The mountain range along that area will give us an easily defensible border.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bede02_map.JPG


>>>SAVE<<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bede02_2150_BC.zip)

Query:
Where was the Portugese scout?

We may want to settle in that direction.

We are not alone on the island, both good and bad.

Roster Check:

Sir Bugsy - Samurai Prime
SirLenTaft - Samurai Secundus
SesnOfWthr - Samurai Terce Met the Portugese
DeceasedHorse - Fourth Samurai - UP
Bede
scout

I met the scout on the eastern edge of the tundra to the south. He was headed our way.

I would definitely start sending settlers towards the southwest. The portuguese are seafaring so they'll be able to send settler pairs in our lands. I would start at the mountain range with cities and work backwards.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bede02_map_-_2.jpg

Here are some ideas for securing the western range. Red dot will grab the whale and oasis. Blue gets the ivory. Yellow dot - the cow and the fish and pink dot will forever be pop 2, but it does grab the southern portion of the range. We're going to need a LOT of workers. With all those hills to the north and these mountains to our southwest, did I mention we're going to need a LOT of workers. :D We are looking pretty good.

Got it. Will play later.

Strict 24hrs to post got it/24hrs from got it to post log and save/48hrs total. All requests for skips automatically honored

Sir Bugsy
SirLenTaft
SesnOfWthr
DeceasedHorse-skipped?
Bede-will play this save if DH does not post by 8:00 PM EDT
scout

Red dot will grab the whale and oasis. Blue gets the ivory. Yellow dot - the cow and the fish and pink dot will forever be pop 2, but it does grab the southern portion of the range. We're going to need a LOT of workers. With all those hills to the north and these mountains to our southwest, did I mention we're going to need a LOT of workers. We are looking pretty good.

Thanks to Bugsy's planning these were the fastest turns I have played in my career.

Not much to report other than the Spanish(?) started the Colussus and the Portugese the Pyramids. Our warrior scouting south was killed by a barbarian whose composure had been ruined by an erupting volcano. Ichiro found the Portugese border on the other side of the boomerang curve and is poking around out there. Osaka built its first warrior and I built a warrior out of Kyoto because of lurking HsungSu tribesmen. Henry's scout has been popping huts to the south of Kyoto and got at least one warrior out of it.

Henry is not being a good neighbor. He is not interested in anything for his monopoly technologies.

I keep wondering where our fellow Asians are...

I set Tokyo to a barracks build until it grew to pop2 then swapped to a worker (wasting a shield) then set it to another worker. Let Osaka build another couple of warriors for MP duty and barb protection then switch to worker production for awhile.

Here are a several of settlement ideas after Bugsy's pink dot (Bugs and scout will tell you my next worst thing is urban planning so take 'em with a grain of salt)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/1500Dotmap.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bede02_1500.jpg

Strict 24hrs to post got it/24hrs from got it to post log and save/48hrs maximum. All requests for skips automatically honored.

Sir Bugsy-skip requested through the 27th June
SirLenTaft-on deck
SesnOfWthr
DeceasedHorse-skipped
Bede-played the plan
scout-up

Looking over the logs, "got it", etc.

I'll play this no sooner than tonight, to let the team weigh in with any thoughts they might have.

@Bede: I like your dot down there by the sugar a little better than Bugsy's... Didn't he say something about a Colossus/Lighthouse build down there?

Edit: @Bede: Where's the save?

Looking over the logs, "got it", etc.

I'll play this no sooner than tonight, to let the team weigh in with any thoughts they might have.

@Bede: I like your dot down there by the sugar a little better than Bugsy's... Didn't he say something about a Colossus/Lighthouse build down there?

Edit: @Bede: Where's the save?

Looking at the pictures in the light of day....

Sugar spot is pretty good, yellow by the two oases is semi :smoke:, should be on the coast, red dot to the north is :smoke: as it misses the lake to the north. On the other hand, given the government options, freshwater access is less important (Feudalism and Fascism optimize for pop6 or less).


Right here

Okay - just to prove I "Got It", here's a little urban planning for the team to mull over... (I have finished milking COTM1, and am trying to get back into my usual SG/spamming form...)

The sugar site will need a temple to capture the whales. I've been tinkering with some ideas for sharing the two oasis tiles between two cities...and the northern sites will need harbors and lots of worker turns to even get to size 6... There are some horses up there we need to claim, but much of the stuff NW of the lake can wait...

Red dots are tiles that would be wasted. There appears to be a lot of open land NW of Kyoto in this plan, but there is less waste than it appears...

In looking at this, I wonder if Sugar couldn't be moved 1 SE to make room for a city on the red dot where the warrior is...we might also consider moving the southerly oasis site 1 SW...

I dunno...just a starting point for discussion. Have a look.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/bede02_1500bc_DOTMAP.jpg

Scout - I would think we could still make that a bit tighter. Remember that we'll be stuck with Feudalism for quite a while, and by the time we get out of it, we should have rails which will make food production increase. Realistically, I wouldn't worry about each town having more than 8 or so tiles to work for a wahile, especially if they're grassland that can be irrigated later.

I'd probably like to see a city on the warrior/red dot, and move the east yellow dot one SE, onto the forest. I'd also move the dots N, and NE of Kyoto 1 S each. Move the NW dot onto the horses (they only give a gold bonus, right?), and the put another city 2 NE and 1 N of Osaka, on the lake. Undecided if I'd move the yellow dot W of Kyoto one tile N.

But there are two problems with my placements:
1. I'm just one guy among many with an opinion
2. I've never been mistaken for an expert anyhow :rolleyes:

I agree that we need to place the cities a bit tighter, we don't want/need large cities.

In general I go with Sesn, the yellow dot W of Kyoto should be one N, IMO. City on horse and another city W of the lake would also be better, and moving the dots E of them one tile S. On the suger I haven't really decided, the question is if we want both the red dots W and E of the suger or only one of them. If two we should keep the suger city where it is, otherwise one SE.

That's just my opinion. Unless DH checks in, I think that was everyone.

Oh hell. I'm a moron.

<commits Seppuku>

Bede doesn't have to do any city planning :yah:


Scout - I would think we could still make that a bit tighter. Remember that we'll be stuck with Feudalism for quite a while, and by the time we get out of it, we should have rails which will make food production increase. Realistically, I wouldn't worry about each town having more than 8 or so tiles to work for a wahile, especially if they're grassland that can be irrigated later.

I'd probably like to see a city on the warrior/red dot, and move the east yellow dot one SE, onto the forest. I'd also move the dots N, and NE of Kyoto 1 S each. Move the NW dot onto the horses (they only give a gold bonus, right?), and the put another city 2 NE and 1 N of Osaka, on the lake. Undecided if I'd move the yellow dot W of Kyoto one tile N.

But there are two problems with my placements:
1. I'm just one guy among many with an opinion
2. I've never been mistaken for an expert anyhow :rolleyes:

I'm with SirLen and Sesn on this one and would move Sugar 1 SE.

@DH, As Bugs and scout and Sesn can attest the moron on city placement is mine host, c'est moi, so put the sword back in its scabbard ;)

Here's another one for you guys to look at... I think if we go with something like an ICS build up north in all the hills we'll have a bunch of size 2 towns that won't be able to grow even WITH rails... but each one can have 2 citizens working a mined hill... happiness shouldn't be a problem...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/BED02_1500bc_dotmap2.jpg

We now have a plan that takes us out 100 turns. ;)

Has anybody looked to the plains to the west yet?

IIRC there are some very productive grasslands that it would be a shame to lose to the Protugese

We now have a plan that takes us out 100 turns. ;)

Has anybody looked to the plains to the west yet?

IIRC there are some very productive grasslands that it would be a shame to lose to the Protugese

We should at least try to get that wheat quite early, other than that I don't really remember the outlay.

Here's another one for you guys to look at... I think if we go with something like an ICS build up north in all the hills we'll have a bunch of size 2 towns that won't be able to grow even WITH rails... but each one can have 2 citizens working a mined hill... happiness shouldn't be a problem...
[/img]

Those town will at least give quite a good unit support. :crazyeye:

EDIT: I like that planning better scout, that's a lot tighter, and should be better for feudalism.

@ Bede: um... "West" is now something of a problem... we should probably escort any settlers that we want to send west of the mountains.... :shakehead

Pre-flight, change Osaka to settler. We're going to need more than one city making settlers if we are to claim all these hills...

IBT - Kyoto equips a settler
=====
Turn 1 (1475) not much... move an elite warrior homeward for barb control near Osaka...
=====
IBT :sleep:
=====
Turn 2 (1450) Our veteran warrior chases our auto-moving settler...something Brother Bede loves to do to me... :p
=====
IBT - nada
=====
Turn 3 (1425) Found Satsuma
=====
IBT - Not much
====
Turn 4 (1400) Moved some stuff
=====
IBT - 3 barb horses show up outside Edo, Osaka outfits a settler, starts on another
=====
Turn 5 (1375) Kagoshima founded
=====
IBT - Kyoto equips another settler, starts a worker. Madrid completes the Oracle
=====
Turn 6 (1350) Nara Founded
=====
IBT - nada (?) Barbs don't seem to be moving...
=====
Turn 7 (1325) not much...moved some stuff...
=====
IBT - Barb horses move west....
=====
Turn 8 (1300) move some stuff around, get a warrrior out to find the barbs threatening Osaka...
=====
IBT - Someone kills a barb in the mountains on our western frontier. Osaka equips a worker, starts on a settler. The Portugese start the Great Lighthouse.
=====
Turn 9 (1275) Nagoya founded, start roading the Ivory (we need SoZ...)
=====
IBT - Henry shows up demanding 22g. I can't remember if it's this game or Bugs1 that's "defiant"...thinking it's better to ask forgiveness than permission, I tell him to stuff it. The Portugese Declare War on us!!! 3 Portugese Warriors show up on the mountain W-SW of Tokyo. Tokyo equips a warrior, starts another. Kagoshima equips a warrior, starts on another.
=====
Turn 10 (1250) - Get a couple of warriors "Headed that way", but we need some roads headed west in the worst way...

Our World:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bede02_ourworld_1250.jpg

After Action Review:

The good: I got us... I think 4 towns founded... which is pretty good.

The bad: We're at war with Portugal.

The ugly: We really, really need workers...

Thoughts: There is a worker roading north of Osaka. When that road is complete a settler out of Osaka can move to the jungle and found a town on the lake, instantly clearing a patch of jungle.

Important Tactical Notes:

There are some barbs up north... I whacked one (note 3/5 warrior) but I did not find the camp. There is also a concscript Portugese warrior and a scout up there somewhere, so don't leave anything completely undefended in the north...

Tokyo has a regular warrior. It might be possible to whip a second. Edo has a warrior that could make it to Tokyo in a turn. I just hope there aren't large numbers of Portugese units nearby...

For the next better player: > > The Save < < (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bede02_1250BC.SAV)

...and Good Luck!!

Sorry for the double-post - but I see an interesting little thing that might buy us a tiny tactical edge...

Consider the hill S-SW of Nagoya. Put a settler on that hill (instead of the one to the SE) and you've got an "instant road". When our worker finishes roading the Ivory, move him to that hill, then move him to the plains tile NE of that hill. It will waste 1 worker turn, but when a town is founded on that hill, we'll have a road there.

The other worker is roading the forest tile SW of Kyoto. Those two workers could then start roading towards each other, and we would have something that resembles a connected empire....

Got it, and will play tomorrow morning (it's soon 2:00...)

Those Portugese warriors doesn't look nice...We can't whip yet, it seems, to small population and production. Hmm, currently we can have 1 fortified regular warrior and one veteran unfortified (I think, if I counted right?) against the three warriors attacking from the hill. One possiblity is to switch Edo's Barrack to a warrior, which would mean a loss of three sheilds, but that might be necesarry if we're to defend Tokyo. If there are more Portugese military showing up soon, we have some major problems...but Satsumas warrior is due soon, which will help.
Kagoshima will have to produce a worker next, which more town? We really need workers and more now when we need roads to the western towns.

Scout, in that little trick, did you mean the actual hill S-SW of Nagoya or the one in your planning? The original would mean one more plain to work, but in the long run placement might be better?

Going to bed now, hope there's some good discussion when I've woke up. :)

EDIT: A curragh would be good for some contacts...

Nice.

A little war to wake up with....

@scout, Bugs1 was over a long time ago...you may be thinking about Bugs2, but you got the variant right in this one.


@ Bede: um... "West" is now something of a problem... we should probably escort any settlers that we want to send west of the mountains....

The master of understatement...why did I get this little chill when I read those words....

@Sesn: If you look at the planning dot on top of the Warrior (the one directly south of Nagoya) and move that site 1 NW, the new city will really only lose one plains tile... and that plains tile will likely be needed by Edo anyway...

...and a city on that hill would be a HUGE help in getting some roads going westward.

I think if we can hold Tokyo and get some warriors on the mountains, we can hold Portugal off. We've got a few more towns than we had 10 turns ago, and Warriors are cheap...

@ Bede: You're right - I was thinking Bugs2 and typing Bugs1. I think those last seven turns I played in Bugs1 left permanent emotional scars on my psyche. :crazyeye:

Quoth Bede: ...why did I get this little chill when I read those words....

I guess that's what happens when you let a Ronin sit in the Shogun's chair. :D Look at the bright side of it. I haven't said "I have an idea" in some time. ;)

Ok, played it now, here's the log:

Preturn: The Barrack build in Edo is changed to a warrior to defend against the Portugese.

1225 - We got three warriors in Tokyo, one fortifed reg, one vet and another reg, both unfortified.

1200 - One of our reg warriors is killed, one reg Portugese is killed. Ivory is connected to Tokyo. Kyoto finishes settler and starts worker.

1175 - Warrior produced in Satsuma.

1150 - Another of our reg warriors is killed, and another Portugese as well. Tokyo switches Warrior build to Barrack.

1125 - Portugese Elite Warrior shows up east of Osaka, barb warrior SE of Kyoto, Barb Horseman W of Satsuma. Barb camp to the north dispersed (sp?).

1100 - :sleep:

1075 - Portugese Eilte next to Osaka is killed, regular gets promotion. Izumo founded.

1050 - The last Portugese Elite in the west finally falls to a regular, after taking down to regulars before. Osaka finishes Settler, sent north.

1025 - Two more Portugese warriors shows up in the west, one Eilte and one vet. Nagasaki founded next to the lake. Barb horseman seen in the south, there's a camp down there that needs to be taken care of.

1000 - Settler finished in Kyoto, yet to decide where to be sent. Ivory connected to Kyoto.

After turn report. We should now be able to handle the Portugeses to the west, though we still need more defenders, and we still need more workers. Masonry is due in two turns, and then Mathematics, I presume?
I was unsure what to do with the latest settler, so I leave it to the group or the next player to decide. It might be good to get it by the oasis, but there's a barb horseman down there. Or is there another spot to settle before? The hill S of the lake could be possible.

Our World:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/bede02_1000.jpg

>>SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/bede02_1000BC.SAV)<<

My initial reaction is to take one of the warriors nearby and escort the settler E-SE (to the hill SW of the southerly oasis). I'd escort him just long enough to get the city founded, then withdraw. I would rather have the barbs raid that town than pillage improvements around Kyoto.

Edit: Alternatively, you could send the settler straight north to the hill. Again, I'd escort it just long enough to get the town founded...

Sir Bugsy - out until 27th
SirLenTaft - played
SesnOfWthr - UP
DeceasedHorse - on deck
Bede
scout

I can jump in whenever you gents would like.

If you'd like to sneak in now, that would be fine by me. I wouldn't get to it till tomorrow evening anyhow.

Roger that. got it.

:whipped:Strict 24hrs to post got it/24hrs from got it to post log and save/48hrs total.:whipped:

:bump: Sir Bugsy-swapped, now skipped
SirLenTaft-played
SesnOfWthr-UP========================<
DeceasedHorse-on deck
Bede :whipped: for being late on the bump
scout

This is my "got it" but no turns till tonight if Bugsy just forgot to post.....

Ahhh! The turns are in progress. Dispatches shortly.

Oh man - got the whip cracked with turns in progress... but I think I know the cause for Brother Bede's quickness with the lash...

@Bugsy - how close are you to finishing your turnset?

Pre-flight – 1000 BC – Settler unmoved, head him towards the SW mountain range.

Henry will talk to us but wants 80G for peace. Ha! We’re defiant as we wanna be!

Kyoto needs some population. Swap build from a settler to a warrior.

We’re in serious need of both military and workers. Since most cities are pop 2 or less, we’ll concentrate on military for now.

IBT – The Portuguese that were west of Tokyo head south.
Edo, Kagoshima: Warr=>war

1. 975 BC – About five units were on go-to. Dudes, that is not cool in a SG. Things changed and I lost a movement point on a warrior that should now be going to Edo instead of Tokyo.
Masonry due next, but science has to stay put.

IBT – Masonry comes in. Normally I would go for something that the AI doesn’t have, but we are in some serious need of archers right now so I select WC, due in 6 at 80%.

2. 950 BC – The Portuguese are moving towards Edo. I take the warrior out of Edo and place him on the mountain to the west. Another moves into the city with a third and fourth nearby.

The price of peace has gone up to 100G.

IBT – Our dude on the mountain flawlessly kills two attacking Portuguese warriors and is now a veteran. The protecting spear moves toward the flatland.
Kyoto, Satsuma: warr=>warr
Nara: curraugh=>curraugh

3. 925 BC – Our wandering dude in Portugual, Ichiro, climbs a mountain and sees:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bede_2_Ichiro_View.jpg

…China. Mao is up BW, WC, writing, Myst and has 122G, 11 cities, and incense hooked up. He won’t sell us anything.

Peace has dropped to 80G.

IBT – Nagoya: warrior=>warrior

4. 900 BC – Maneuvering to get the Portuguese spear on flatland.

Peace drops to 60G.
Mao will sell us WC for 84G. Since I need some archers right now, I take the deal.
Select math at minimum.
Swap Kyoto and Kagoshima over to archers.

IBT – The spear moves to flatland. A warrior in the east defends against two barb horses.
Tokyo: war=>archer

5. 875 BC – We lose three warriors, but the spear is dead. Our curraugh is making its way west along the coast.

IBT – The Aztecs build the Pyramids.

6. 850 BC – Our curraugh spots a pair of Portuguese archers walking across the western desert.

IBT – Kyoto: archer=>settler
Izumo: war=>archer
The Portuguese complete the lighthouse and start building the mausoleum. The Spanish complete the Great Wall.

7. 825 BC – Hire a tax man in Nagoya. Send several warriors towards the front. Found Yokohama on the southern end of the mountain range. Check out my old house and some of my haunts.

Henry still isn’t reasonable.

IBT – Nara: curraugh=>archer

8. 800 BC – Now that Nagoya is hooked up, fire the tax lady. Peace drops to 60G. We’ll probably fight some Portuguese archers on the interturn. Lux to 10% to keep Kyoto happy.

IBT – Our warrior on the mountain is killed by a Portuguese archer.
Nagasaki: war=>war

9. 775 BC – The archers on the mountain are going to be a pain in the neck. Move some units into our cities. Lux to 20% for Kyoto. Peace is back to 80G.

IBT – The Portuguese split their forces. One attacks a barb to the west, the other attacks our warrior and loses a HP in killing him.
Kagoshima: archer=>archer
Nagoya: war=>archer

10. 750 BC – We kill the wounded acher with a warrior.

Peace is back to 60G.

After Action: With a couple of more archers we’ll be able to hold our mountains against all comers. Probably need to start settling our eastern and northern lands. I’d start with the hill country first.

Situation:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bede_2_750_West.jpg

Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bede_02,_750_BC.SAV

Apologies to the team, and to Bugsy, especially.

Sesn-take it away from Bugsy's save.

No apology necessary. I really was late getting the game completed.

Didn't get to this last night. Going to see Harry Potter now, and will definitely play sometime after that. :)

Pre turn – Everything looks pretty good, but it’d be nice to connect those horses. Also pretty low on workers.

730 bc (1) – Ichiro valiantly slays an archer in Henry’s back yard, but gets critically injured doing so.

IT - Lose a vet archer on a mountain. Ichiro is instantly surrounded.

710 bc (2) – RL archer defeats our vet warrior. Ichiro runs for cover, but it doesn’t look good…

IT – Ichiro falls, without a struggle.

690 bc (3) – Shimoneski founded on the northern horses. We finally kill that stupid archer.

IT – Henry signs Mao on against us. Henry also drops an archer off next to unguarded Nara. Unfortunately, the archer for defense is still a turn away from completion.

670 bc (4) – 4/5 warrior RL the portugese archer. No one can quite reach him. Try to bait him for a turn with a worker…

IT – Portugese do take Nara. :wallbash:

650 bc (5) – Dispatch a couple archers to take it back. Mitsu wins vs archer, no leader. I use the whip in a couple towns.

630 bc (6) – Can attack nara next turn. Couple more reinforcements arrive at the mountains.

IT – We lose one of our archers at Nara. Portugese reinforce it with two more archers.

610 bc (7) – Withdraw other archers, we’ll need a few more now. Use the whip a bit more. Archer kills spear near the mountains.

IT – This is not good. Two more archers arrive at Nara.

590 bc (8) – By my count, there is at least 1 spear and four archers in Nara, along with another one running around. In two turns I can have seven archers available, at best. At worst, I lose another city.

IT – Reg warrior wins on defense, no promotion. The Portugese drop off two more archers.

570 bc (9) – I have no doubt this portugese SoD is coming out of Nara soon. The results will not be good for us. I don’t dare attack anything for fear of winning and leaving a unit exposed.

IT – Our vet archer wins on defense, -1 hp. Henry unbelievably drops two more archers off in Nara. Either Henry has about nine archers in there, or he’s moving the same ones in and out.

550 bc (10) – We disperse a Hsung-nu encampment in the south.

Recap: I obviously screwed this one up pretty well. I left a two turn window when that could have happened, and of course it did. This could very well be a back-breaker. If there really are nine or so archers in Nara, we don’t have enough units to stop them, regardless of the direction they move in. I have been using the whip pretty heavily, but even with that, I couldn’t produce fast enough to be able to make a move when two more archers added to the problem every turn.

I’m not sure what else to add here. [pissed] :suicide:

>>>SAVE<<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bede02_550_BC.zip)

Sir Bugsy
SirLenTaft
SesnOfWthr-Ouch
DeceasedHorse-UP==================<
Bede-on deck
scout

Do we need a meeting of the Council of Regents?

I think the situation is dire but not hopeless. Is it possible to buy our way out?

I'll take a look in the dawn's early light and post some thoughts....

Peace can be bought with Henry for all our gold (293) and 2 gpt. We currently make 18 gpt.

I had not mentioned that we have yet to see a Chinese warrior, and they will not even talk.

Peace can be bought with Henry for all our gold (293) and 2 gpt. We currently make 18 gpt.

I had not mentioned that we have yet to see a Chinese warrior, and they will not even talk.

One problem with that: the defiant variant rules won't allow us to buy our way out....:wallbash: :spank: (read your own posts before posting a crack-brained idea, Bede)

I'm gonna sleep on this one...

One problem with that: the defiant variant rules won't allow us to buy our way out

Which is exactly why I feel I screwed this up so bad. We need to put enough of a hurt on him to get peace for free, at the very least. The real problem is the lack of a defensive unit here. Hopefully we can find someone immediately and buy BW. Might be too little too late though. :(

Opened up the 750BC save just to satisfy my curiousity.

Looks like neglecting the trading opportunities with China created the problem. We could have bought Bronze and Iron Working for gpt which might have kept Mao on the sidelines and even if it didn't we would have had the techs at a discount.

It does not look like Henry will offer a tech at a discount in the negotiations, so that option is out for now..

Military response: pull troops out of the towns around Nara and on to the hills surrounding the town. If there are no horsemenin Nara Henry can't reach any other town and will waste his forces attacking the hills, or put them in the open where they are more vulnerable. Once his bolt is shot we can take back Nara then see what the potential for peace might be. I didn't see any Porutgese troops in the western plains so pull back into the mountains there.

Comments from any of the master tacticians?

When Henry loses Nara, it will cause enough pain that he will be reasonable at the peace table. I wouldn't worry about peace right now.

Additionally, I wouldn't use the whip too much more. The short term gain will cripple our long term productivity.

Remember that Nara is built on a hill. Figure we're going to take some loses recapturing the city. How many archers do we have available for an assault?

@Sesn - What is with the Sox' fielding? It's feeling like '86 all over again.

Are we now obligated to Erase Henry? Or would that only be required if he had sacked Nara?

Probably need a review of our variant. Originally Posted by Arathorn (from Bede's opening post)
Defiant Variant: You must never give in to a demand from an opponent, that is, you always reject demands for tribute. You may never ally, sign a Right of Passage, MPP, or embargo with another civilization. You may never pay for peace (a peace treaty must either be straight-up or the opponent gives a concession to you. A deal where a tech costs 20 gpt normally and you pay 10 gpt for that tech as part of a peace treaty is fine). Any troops on your soil must be given a boot order every turn. No capturing foreign cities or demanding them in diplomacy. No foreign workers merged into existing cities. If an AI razes one of your cities, that civ must be eliminated.

So far Henry has kept himself alive.

Yup, no razing of Nara means we don't have to eliminate Henry....yet.

We could probably scrounge together 8-10 archers in the next couple of turns, but that would leave cities undefended again.

If the rng continues it's trend, we'll take several losses. It was something less than kind to me.

I think I used the whip once in most of the cities.

I have no clue what is going on with the BoSox. I thought the game Tues was as frustrating as it could get, but leave it to the boys to go one better. Ortiz is my all-around "Goat of the Game". He whiffed on bases loaded, and had two fielding mishaps (though only one error was charged). However, he has gotten enough "Hero of the Game" awards to offset this one....as long as it's not a trend.

When Henry loses Nara, it will cause enough pain that he will be reasonable at the peace table. I wouldn't worry about peace right now.

Additionally, I wouldn't use the whip too much more. The short term gain will cripple our long term productivity.

Remember that Nara is built on a hill. Figure we're going to take some loses recapturing the city. How many archers do we have available for an assault?


The short-run intent on surrounding Nara was to blunt Henry's attempts to move out of the town as we build the force necessary to take it back. The whip is no longer an option, I think, so we will just have to wait for another hlf dozen archers and trust that the Navigator will use up his troops against the bastions on the hills. As I don;t think there are any fast movers that can get out of Nara to threaten the rest of the towns, pulling the defenders is not too big a gamble, but Bugs well knows I have sometimes thrown that set of dice and lost big time (A French knight and a weakly defended settlement comes to mind)

:cringe: Yes, I remember. I think it is worth the gamble. Surrounding Nara is a good idea.

Sir Bugsy
SirLenTaft
SesnOfWthr-Ouch
DeceasedHorse-:bump: skipped
Bede-up
scout-on deck

Will play today

:cringe: Surrounding Nara is a good idea.While you're cringing... do your remember "the hug"? :D

Bede-up / scout-on deck / Will play todayI guess I know what I better do tomorrow if I don't want a :spank:

@Bede: That's the last time I dig on you for that, I promise. :mischief:

*anxiously awaiting to see if Bede can clean up the mess*

Just a quick update before I insert knife into my entrails:

We would be hanging by a silk thread if we had any. Tokyo burned, Nagoya captured. One hitpoint away from losing Kyoto. Still no give in Henry or Mao.

@scout:

You don't have to play tomorrow just pick up the save....you can have until Sunday to play. :D
Should go quickly as we have hardly any towns left and very few citizens left to manage.... :crazyeye:

...Tokyo burned...I guess that does it. We are now obligated to sack Henry.

550-450
Build defenses in the west against Portugese archer/spear stacks but are forced into a Russian gambit of trading territory for time as the forces are slowly forced back towards Tokyo and the Portugese breach the mountains. but lose 1/3 of their forces. Meanwhile the archers and warriors at Nara are absorbing archer hits with a 3:1 kill ratio in our favor. By 450BC there are enough archers at Nara to attempt to take the city. Henry will talk but offers no concessions.

Mao will also talk but won't offer anything either.

The Battle for Nara goes badly. There are two spears left in the garrison. One is killed but the second defeats our archers and reaches elite status.

A wounded archer from Nara takes Nagoya.

In 430BC the Portugese forces in the west are reduced to seven archers and a spear.

Meet the English in the west and spend most of the treasury buying Bronze and Iron. There is a source of iron outside Nagasaki.

Whip a couple of spears in the west and an archer in Kyoto.

A wounded Portugese archer takes Tokyo and burns it.

From 430 to 370 reinforce the west with spears and the Portugese forces spend themselves against Edo and Izumo. There are two wounded archers and a spear left

In 370 the Portugese reingorce Nara and march an archer out of Nagoya toward Kyoto. Forces besieging the two cities are pulled back to garrison duty in Osaka and Kyoto.

The Portugese attack Kyoto and cripple the defending archer. There is no follow up so the town is still in our hands.

In 350 kill the threatening Portugese archer in the west and reveal two more Protugese archers on the mountain above the rubble of Tokyo

A Chinese galley approaching Osaka has turned north.

A scan of the map reveals that the Portugee have expanded onto the plains west of our mountains.

I am expecting the next attack to come from Nara at either Osaka or Kyoto. Henry still lacks iron and horses. Our iron will connect in five turns. It is going to take veteran swords to turn this around. Nagoya does not have enough force to threaten Izumo, I think.

We have all of eleven units for garrison duty and protection against the Portugese.....There is a crippled archer in Kyoto and a spear due on the interturn. Osaka is garrisoned with a regfular warrior and a wounded archer with another spear due on the IT.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bede02_350BC01.jpg

This is going to be a fun challenge... but it looks like Brother Bede was good enough to set some things up for me. I might just concede to whatever's in that chinese galley, and deal with them later...while I dig in my heels and see what I can do about getting us one of our cities back.

"Got it"

:cringe: I don't know about "fun" but it is a challenge. Glad to be in a game that isn't decided in the first 100 turns. :D

:cringe: I don't know about "fun" but it is a challenge. Glad to be in a game that isn't decided in the first 100 turns. :DI think it is appropriate that we're playing as Japan. I can't remember if it was Musashi, or someone/something referenced by Musashi who wrote "The way of the warrior is death"... or maybe it was "resolute acceptance of death". Put another way, once one accepts death, one begins to truly live.

I leave the good Brother Bede with some 20th Century "Pirate" poetry from one of my favorite minstrels, to lighten his mood as a Ronin takes the game:

(Spoken)
In days of old, when knights were bold,
And journeyed from their castles,
Trusty men were left behind,
Knights needed not the hassles.
They helped themselves to pig and peach,
And drank from king’s own chalice.
Oh, it was a stirring sight
These gypsies in the palace.

And some things never change. hit it boys!

(Sung)
So long boss, knock ’em dead, don’t worry ’bout a thing
Wish that we could come along, we’d love to hear you sing
Limo’s here, your bags are packed, the list is by the phone
Me and snake will watch your place and treat it like our own

Look at all this liquor
Look at all this food
It’s only gonna go to waste
We’re not really being rude
But the good stuff’s in his closet, I swear he wouldn’t mind
Hell we’ll just shoot the lock off, I do it all the time

We’re gypsies in the palace, he’s left us here alone
The order of the sleepless knights will now assume the throne
We ain’t got no money, we ain’t got no right
But we’re gypsies in the palace, we got it all tonight

I don't know about the song, but I do agree with the "once one accepts death, one begins to truly live." Let's assume that we're going to lose this game and play like madmen. Sort of like the Soviets expecting the American military to read their tactics manuals.

Death is as light as a feather, duty as heavy as a mountain?

Can I get a different slot in the order? I always seem to be coming up at inopportune times.

Welcome back.

Want to take it after scout?

We could use some of that good ol' "Horse Magic".

I like that idea. The horse will :hammer:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Footersm.gif

The Portugese Killer Spearman gazed out his window at the Japanese citizens in his courtyard. He hardly noticed the bedraggled traveller who had arrived in the night. With unkempt hair and a slight air of Guiness on his breath, there was little cause for notice. Had he known the traveller, he would have understood that this was no mere traveller, but a Ronin; a warrior without a master. This particular Ronin once fought the Japanese under the guidance of the Great Khan. He fought them well enough that the Great Khan kicked him out of class, thereby leaving him without a master.

The traveller moved quietly among the citizens, softly telling them a story of 47 Ronin, whose master was wrongfully disposessed and forced to commit seppuchu. Dispossesed were the Ronin, much as the citizens of Japan now were. As the story goes, the 47 dispersed, to gather their strength...to await the right moment to avenge the death of their master. The Ronin urged the people of Japan to exercise patience and perserverance.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Patient.gif

The Ronin wandered about the lands, quietly training warriors the art of spear, bow, and sword. He taught them to choose their moments to attack. Soon, the screams of dying Portugese archers were heard coming from the lands south of Nagoya.

In the tenth year after the Ronin's arrival, the city of Nara was retaken. Although the citizen of Nara rejoiced, the Ronin had made a tactical blunder at Kagoshima, and had also deliberately permitted Kyoto to be sacked by barbarian horsemen from the east. The Ronin was ordered to Kyoto to commit ritual seppuchu, and pass his sword to the next better player.

Prince Henry received the news of the loss at Nara, and the news of the passing of the Ronin. He was glad that the Ronin was gone, but something disturbed him. The winds, which normally blew from west to east, had shifted. His soldiers had reported hearing hoofbeats, and stories of a Japanese rider, and a dark horse....

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/samurai_main1.gif

Pre-flight check...Putting a citizen on the forest in Osaka gets it to +5spt

IBT - 4 Portugese archers show up in the west, galleys shuffle in and out of Nara, I think he dropped 2 more archers off in Nara. One archer moves south from Nara, another moves south from Nagoya, threatening Izumo.

Kyoto trains a spear, starts a Warrior
Osaka trains a Spear, starts an Archer
Yokohama trains a spear, starts another
Matsuyama trains a spear, starts another

Turn 1 (330)
Hire a Scientist in Kyoto (No dif between 7spt and 8, gets some science going again, Math in 24)
Move the spear North out of Yokohama.
Oh man - we've even got a Curaugh with a single hit point remaining...
Regular archer from Izumo kills Portugese archer on hill flawlessly, promotes

These portugese units look like they're in the mood to pillage stuff. Take a small risk... fortify the spearman on the mined oasis West of Izumo (hoping he'll kill the 2 archers) Move the spear out of Kyoto and send him westward.

IBT - Portugese Spear moves onto our Ivory. This is going to hurt...

Turn 2 (310)
I put a spear on the hill south of Nagoya. If Henry wants to continue advancing archers in that direction, it will cost him. Move the spear out of Osaka to go to Kyoto.

IBT - The Portugese do in fact pillage our Ivory. I should have converted that stupid scientinst into a clown. A portugese Archer attacks our spear flatfooted on the road to Kyoto, our spear wins 3/4.

Kyoto and Nagasaki Riot.

Turn 3 (290)

Let's see... Henry has managed to place 4 archers within striking distance of Izumo. This is not good... Izumo is now our gateway to the mountains.

Kagoshima is changed to an archer.
The spearman makes it to Kyoto
I take the spearman off the oasis and fortify him in Izumo. I take the spearman on the hill and place him in Izumo. I take the archer and kill one of the portugese archers on the desert tile, promoting him to Elite (4/5). March a spear to Edo.

IBT - 2 Portugese archers fall to a spear in Izumo, promoting him to Elite in the process. The Portugese Galley shuffles up the coast towards Shimonseki. Kyoto trains a warrior, starts another. Kagoshima trains an archer, and I wish I could spare the turns to build a rax there.

Turn 4 (270)
Change the queue to Spear in Shimonseki, and whip it.
Change the queue to Archer in Izumo...
Our Elite Archer in Izumo gets redlined killing a Portugese Archer in the desert. I'll give you a name and a rest next turn little buddy.

IBT - Enemy galleys shuffle... The Portugese pillage the irrigation SW of Izumo. I see 2 chinese galleys to the east now, and I bet they contain settler pairs. Just as well, we need some cities.

Osaka trains an archer, starts a Sword. Shimoneski trains a spear, starts a warrior. Elizabeth establishes an Embassy in our capitol.

Turn 5 (250)

Regular archer kills Portugese archer (2/3) move a spear from Edo to cover.
Changye Kyoto to settler. I'd rather have another town than another clown.
Wake Shigo, and send him south. Fumble a move with a curraugh, but get it back to coast... I spy a dark green border to the Southeast. (Fortunately, this is the healthy Curraugh)

IBT - Portugese archer kills our spear. Portugese advance on Edo. Portugese spear advances to road N of Edo. Nagasaki trains an Archer, starts a sword.

Turn 6 (230)
There are 4 Portugese archers in the mountains west of Edo, only one in striking distance of the town. I wake the warrior in Satsuma and send him to Edo (simple math, he can't kill 2 units with one archer...) Change Edo to Sword, and Whip it. Whip a spear in Satsuma.
Archers in Izumo are too banged up to do us any good this turn.

IBT - the Portugese archer kills one of our Warriors at Edo. Enemy Galleys shuffle, a stack of barb horses show up outside Kyoto.

Edo trains a sword, starts a spear. Satsuma trains a spear, starts another. Izumo trains an archer, starts a Sword.

Turn 7 (210)

Let's see... I've got 4 Barb horses outside Kyoto, and 3 units. Change Kyoto to Sword.
Yokohama was connected in the IBT... maybe I can get our Ivory hooked back up...

Here's a vexing little problem. I've got 5 Portugese units outside Izumo. To the SW is an Archer/Spear combo. To the NE is a pair of archers, and a 2/3 archer in the North (not really worried about him).

Scout's little buddy takes the defensive free shot of the archer, and kills that Portugese spear that has been running around our rear area since I got this game. Scout's Little Buddy is now 1/5. Our Regular Archer kills a portugese Archer, now 1/3.

I guess skirmishing with archers is what Demi-God is about, huh team?

IBT - a 2/3 Portugese Archer does us the service of promoting our sword in Edo to Veteran status. Portugese units shuffle in the mountains. Kagoshima trains an Archer, starts a sword.

Great, we just got a report of a massive uprising near Kyoto.

Turn 8 (190)

"I have an idea".
Change Kyoto back to settler.

Regular Archer out of Kagoshima whacks the Portugese Archer that advanced to the hill SE of Izumo. Izumo is fast becoming a graveyard for Portugese Archers.

The only healthy archer I have in Izumo whacks the Portugese Archer that advanced to our Ivory. I'm gonna get it back.

There are 3 Portugese Archers on the mountain 2 SW of Edo. They can be in striking distance of Edo or Satsuma next turn. I wake the Elite spear in Izumo and dipatch him to Edo post haste.

A barb galley is "in the six" of our 1 hp Curraugh.. but in 2 moves, we meet the Aztecs.

Montezuma is polite, which immediately tells me that something is very, very wrong with this game.

IBT - The Portugese archers advance on Edo. Two Portugese Archers advance south from Nagoya, one S from Nara. Our Curraughs are in similar exploration lanes with Aztec galleys, who absorb the brunt of the barbarian galley attacks for us. A good-sized stack of Barb horses appear from the fog east of Kyoto. Kyoto equips a settler, starts a sword.

Turn 9 (170)
Our sword kills 1 of 3 Portugese archers that threaten Edo. Sword 2/4. One of our Archer dies to a portugese Archer at Izumo.

Another vexing problem I've got 12 barb horses 3 East of Kyoto, and 4 more E-NE of the city. I wanted to put the settler on the hilltop E-SE of the city, but the barb horses are within striking distance of that tile. Taking a small gamble here, and wake the 2 warriors in Matsuyama and pull them out of the town, hoping (praying) to draw the barb horses away from the core.

Send the Settler and a Spear W-SW out of Kyoto. Maybe we can re-claim the Tokyo site.

IBT - It didn't work. The Barbarians clearly sense blood in the water, and advance on Kyoto. Osaka trains a sword, starts a spear.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/bede02_130BC_02_BARBS.jpg

Turn 10 (150)
If we are to take Nara, the time has come. We have 2 Veteran Archers, a Vet Sword, and a couple of warriors. As much as I would prefer to upgrade the swords, our treasury is about to get emptied by the barb horses, and we're only at 49 gold.

In the most unbelievable RNG roll I have seen in a while, our Veteran archer absorbs a free-shot from a Portugese Archer, and kills the Elite Portugese Killer Spearman. He's redlined now, but SO WHAT?!?!?! [dance] Regular Archer relines Portugese Regular Spear before dying. Veteran Archer kills Regular Archer. Our Sword is redlined, kills Portugese Spear, Captures Nara, and Promotes!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/bede02_130BC_01_NARA.jpg

In one of the dangdest moves I have ever made in a game, I empty the garrison at Kyoto. The only way those units will survive is if I withdraw them. Hopefully the barbs will simply be absorbed by sacking the city. But before that happens, I buy a shiny little sword for Shigo (because the barbs are about to empty our treasury anyway).

Scout's Little Buddy takes out a Portugese Archer South of Nagoya. The spear from the settler pair moves to cover my little friend, while the settler moves westward (uncovered) to the former site of Tokyo.

I simply cannot force the next better player to endure the barb horsemen. This was my doing, and I accept it.

IBT - Montezuma complains about a trespassing Curraugh. Mao drops a single warrior off next to undefended

Aside from 4 Barb horses that weren't near the city, all of those Barb horsemen near Kyoto raid the city, doing various things I don't approve of... but at least they are gone now. Consider it a form of "aikido" guys, and please forgive me - for this and for pressing <Enter> at the end of my turns.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/bede02_130BC_03_BARBS.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/bede02_130BC_04_BARBS.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/bede02_130BC05_BARBS.jpg

Matsumaya trains a spear, starts another.

This will be a beginning-of-turn save.

After action review:

The good: I got one of our cities back, and seemed to be able to "toe the line" with Henry. I didn't keep score, but I'm pretty sure that I killed more than I lost.

The bad: Well... those infernal barb horsemen really weren't all that bad. I think in all they killed 2 citizens, emptied a build queue that was actually fairly fresh, and carried away a chunk of our treasury (which was only 13 gold to begin with...)

I also hope you guys don't mind me hitting <enter> at the end of my turns. I just couldn't bring myself to force the next player to watch what I knew was coming...

The ugly: Just when I thought we were ready to turn the corner, Mao outflanked me badly at Kagoshima IBT. Had I moved one lousy unit south when I emptied the garrison at Kyoto, the next better player wouldn't face the rather vexing tactical situation in Kagoshima and Izumo. :wallbash:

About the best option I can think of is to wake up the veteran spear in Izumo and attack the regular Chinese Warrior. Though there's an archer in Izumo, he's 1/3 or 1/4... The spear and "Scout's Little Buddy" (Elite Archer) can really go nowhere but Izumo - and there are 3 Portugese archers in position to attack Izumo. IIRC, there is a sword in Edo that (with the spear) should be able to hold off 2 archers. I think there's a warrior that could be used to reinforce Izumo...together with the wounded archer, and the spear/archer now south of Nagoya, we should be able to hold the town by simply outnumbering the Portugese archers...

Given the choice, I would rather lose Kagoshima than Izumo... if we manage to keep them both, we will have turned the corner.

Here's a screenie.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/bede02_130BC_06_SOUTH.jpg

Mercifully, the situation in the North isn't quite so bad.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/bede02_130BC_07_NORTH.jpg

So... for the next better player... the long awaited > > 130 BC Start-of-Turn Save < < (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bede02_130BC.SAV)

Nice write up scout and well played turns.

The thing I don't like about the barbarian horsemen is their symbolism, not their actions: somebody is now in the Middle Ages and we have a runaway freight train out there in the fog!!

Roster Check :)
DeceasedHorse- UP :wavey:
Sir Bugsy-on deck
SirLenTaft
SesnOfWthr
Bede
scout-reversed the tide of war :worship:

Thanks Bede. I still think we can dig our way back into this one. Granted, being an age behind isn't fun... but...

If we can "hold what we've got" for about 2-3 turns, maybe re-take Nagoya in 3-5, we can end the nearly constant flow of (enemy) archers from these two towns. This would allow us to move more units westward... and maybe own those mountains again...

I daresay we might want to build a few more settlers. More towns, more units... even if all they can do is pop out 3hp archers... "Quantity has its own Quality..." or something like that.

The next better player might want to play carefully with the sliders. Once I got the Ivory hooked up things started to look just a little better. I used the whip, but sparingly. We might be able to get our research going again sometime in the next 10 turns...

I Got it, I got it!

Actuslly there are at least two runaway freight trains out there. Way to go scout. We have an uphill battle, but you are right. The wind has shifted. This wind is going to blow right into Lisbon, and we're going to watch that city burn!

In the dark days of the Portuguese occupation, a young Japanese villager fled the city of Nagoya. Upon reaching Kyoto, the great capital city, he sought to gain an audience with the Emperor, but was rebuffed. Emperor Scoutsout, it seems, blamed himself for the reversals of fortune suffered by the Imperial Army of late, and had lost himself in Ivory, uh, snorting, or eating it, I guess, or whatever it is you do with Ivory that makes it a luxury. Anyway, as I was saying, the young villager, thrown out by the Samurai guardsmen- Samurai could not take the field of battle because they hadn’t been invented yet-went and wandered the streets of the capital. After taking a turn down a particularly dark alley, he found himself in a tomb of some sorts. A horrific specter materialized in front of the young villager. The apparition wore the uniform of an Imperial General, his abdomen split open and his bowels spilled out. Puss and rancid blood dripped from the gaping wound. The villager shrieked, and turned to flee, but was paralyzed by the unholy speech of the ghost:

“STOP”

The villager stopped.

“I AM THE GHOST OF CHRISTMAS PAST!”

The villager was confused, “What is Christmas?”

“WAIT. I MEANT TO SAY ‘I AM THE GHOST OF BRIGADIER GENERAL DECEASED HORSE. I KNOW WHY YOU HAVE COME TO THE CITY, FARMER. FOR GENERATIONS MY SOUL HAS BEEN TRAPPED IN THIS HORRIFIC STATE. I AM FOREVER CONDEMNED BY MY INABILITY TO SHOW UP ON TIME FOR BATTLE AND MY GENERAL PROCRASTINATION.”

“Wow, that kinda sucks.”

“YOU ARE A MASTER OF UNDERSTATEMENT, FUNNY GUY. NOW IS THE TIME FOR MY REDEMTION. THE EMPEROR REFUSES TO COMMAND THE ARMY. I HAVE FINALLY SHOWN UP ON TIME.”

With that, the ghost possessed the poor farmer. Marching back to the Imperial Cave, the ‘farmer’ laid waste to the Samurai guarding the Emperor. Bursting in the front door, the possessed fiend faced down Emperor Scoutsout XI.

“Who-Who are you?”

“REDEMTION. GIVE ME COMMAND OF YOUR ARMIES, AND WE MAY YET DEFEAT THE ACCURSED NAVIGATOR AND HIS MINIONS!”

“Why do you talk like that?”

“BECAUSE I AM AN UNHOLY WRAITH TRAPPED BETWEEN LIFE AND DEATH, AND ALSO BECAUSE I SUFFER FROM VOICE IMMODULATION DISORDER…”
(SNL reference)

And so it was that the ghost of General Deceased Horse took command of the Emperor’s legions.


Preturn: Not really applicable

Turns 1: I send the vet spear in Izumo to attack the Chinese warrior. He redlines, but manages a victory and even gets promoted to Elite. The 1/3 regular archer in Izumo can now actually reach Kagoshima, and moves in to defend the city. The veteran spearmen and Scout’s little buddy move off the hill and garrison the now-vacant Izumo. Move a regular archer and veteran swordsmen out of Edo to Izumo. The settler follows. Once Nagoya has been dealt with, I will be able to muster sufficient forces to begin extending the depth of our frontline, but not before we deal with the Portuguese incursion. Furthermore, a good long-term goal would be to get spears into every mountain square, but I figure that would require a good dozen to do so. Edo itself could theoretically fall; but it has a fortified elite spear on a mountain, so it should hold against two regular archers. Lux tax to 40%.

IBT: The Portuguese decline to challenge our dung-in defenders along the mountain range, which I have christened Bede’s Bane range because it sounds cool and we need a common frame of reference. The Portuguese now have 7 archers and 1 spearmen in the foothills of Bede’s Bane. The archers near Nagoya retreat to the city, except for one that remains on a hill outside the city. Mao shows up and will give us peace for our new 9gpt income. Send his ambassador back to him sans head. In his fury, Mao orders an amphibious landing to the west of Izumo. The Portuguese land two archers nearby. The crew of our brave curragh, the IJN Yamato, spots a yellow galley. The Chinese and Portuguese galleys will have to contend with a trio of Uzbek triremes which just sailed out of the fog to the south. The remaining barb horsemen head west, almost certainly targeting Osaka.

Turn 2: The Yamato makes contact with William of the Dutch. We could actually afford Mathematics; it would take almost all of our income (9gpt) however. I make the trade-we need catapults on-line immediately. Slay 3 of the 4 units landed last turn; one archer promotes to elite.

IBT: Lose an exposed archer to Portuguese marines. Three Portuguese archers leave Nagoya and head north. Two additional Portuguese archers show up. The Yamato witnesses an epic battle between a lone Aztec warrior and a massive SoD of Barbarian horsemen. The regular warrior fends of at least a dozen if not more barb horsemen, promoting all the way to elite before finally falling. The barbs kill the settler he was escorting. The Chinese slug it out with Uzbek galleys, but are unfortunately victorious.

Turn 3: Elite sword defeats one of the Portuguese archers in the hill of Nagoya, other units are set to pounce on them once they leave the hills. Scout’s little buddy loses 4 straight hp attacking Portuguese marines (regular archers, in the open…) but manages to win, barely.

IBT: Scout’s little buddy falls. Lose one archer; kill one archer in the battles outside of Nagoya. Portuguese archers continue to stream across Bede’s Bane. I screw up majorly and leave a worker exposed, and the barbarian horsemen destroy it

Turn 4: Shigo defeats the last of the Portuguese archers in the northern hills around Nagoya, losing 2hp but promoting to veteran. There are four archers in attack range of Izumo, covered by a spearmen. No, there are 7 archers in attack position. Vet sword kills a spear. Regular sword dies trying to kill the now-exposed archer stack. Bad choice on my part. Pull the Elite spearman out Edo and move him to Izumo. We are so short on troops that I am forced to use a newly-produced spear to attack a barb horsemen who could disconnect our Iron from most of our cities if he pillaged the road he was standing on. Spear wins, barely.

IBT: Lose the spear to another barb rider. The Portuguese bypass Izumo and continue moving east. I may be accidentally guilty of pulling the AI’s “Puppet Strings” as I had left Nara defenseless last turn. Kyoto riots somehow; I check the city on the following turn and it has 1 happy, 1 content, and 1 unhappy citizen. Very strange.

Turn 5: Scout’s other buddy defeat the Portuguese archer in the outskirts of Kyoto. Shuffle guys around, trying to contain the damage.

IBT: Portuguese troops continue to stream towards Nara. Lose an archer outside of Kyoto. Barbarians pillage our Íron road.

Turn 6: Lose one warrior killing that damned horseman. Two horsemen still fortified directly south of Nagasaki, but seem to be just hanging around right now. Our first catapult comes online, lobs rocks at Portuguese archers passing by Izumo.

IBT: Lose yet another warrior to the barbarians. The Portuguese, perhaps no longer willing to attack Nara now that it is defended by an Elite Sword, turn and attack Izumo (Thank God, it is probably our best defended city at this point) Our veteran spearmen promotes to elite, and our two elite spearmen kill a total of four Portuguese archers. The Portuguese start on SUN TZU’S ART OF WAR. Ugh.

Turn 7: Whip walls in Izumo. Whip spear in Edo. Found Sapporo, out in the desert. Elite sword moves into attack position outside of Nagoya; mostly to whale on any archers heading north.

IBT: Portuguese archers attack Izumo; since it lacks a barracks, our still-wounded spearmen are not at their best and one elite spearmen falls, taking three Portuguese archers with him. Portuguese spearmen will likely pillage our ivory next IBT. A Portuguese galley sinks IJN Musashi.

Turn 8: Shuffle defenders around

IBT: Portuguese keep up their assault on Izumo. Their offensive force is decimated, but they move yet more reinforcements out of Nagoya. The Portuguese do indeed pillage roads and disconnect our precious, precious Ivory, and Osaka riots despite my premptive raising of the luxury tax to 50%.

Turn 9: Catapults go 2 for 2 bombarding the Portuguese besiegers outside of Izumo. Defeat the two spears defending Nagoya, but the city is still held by Portuguese archers who retreated to the city to heal. Osaka has to hire a specialist; we would need to run 70% luxury taxes, which would bankrupt us in a couple of turns. Even with a taxmen, we are still losing money at 50%.

IBT: The Portuguese throw a couple more archers against Izumo with no effect. They rush another Spearmen in Nagoya.

Turn 10: Veteran sword based out of Izumo raids Portuguese positions, dispatching an archer and promoting to elite with no damage incurred.

Notes: We are way behind tech-wise, have no strategic resources or luxuries available. Nevertheless, I think we have turned a corner in the war with the Portuguese. The tide of spears and archers has tapered off and we should be able to finally re-capture Nagoya fairly soon. I’m just glad the Portuguese went after Izumo and decimated their offensive army for us.

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/BEde02_50AD.SAV)

Note: I will be out of town for the next week, so consider me autoskipped until I get back.

:rotfl:

I got as far as "GENERAL PROCRASTINATION" and had to find a new keyboard. I spilled a perfectly good glass of merlot into the last one. I am now going to finish reading the log. (But I need a :you_owe_me_a_drink: smiley)

@DeceasedHorse: Nice turns - I had no idea the Portugese Archers would keep streaming across the mountains like that.

This is a rough little game we've gotten ourselves into, but hey - we're still in it!

I've got it. Expect dispatches by tomorrow evening.

Nice resurrection, DH.

We may be around the corner but what, or who, is lurking in the shadows of the wall?

Nice of the English and the Dutch to sell us what we needed.

Wow, a lot happened in the couple of days I wasn't around, huh?

Looks like a couple of better players saved me the shame of losing the game in the AA, but we certainly have some catching up to do. :(

Pre-flight – 50 AD – Well we’re not in as much as a pickle as we once were. Mao wants a city for peace HA! So does Henry. HA! Double HA!!

We need some positive cash flow very soon.

IBT – A couple of Chinese galleys sail by. Sapporo would be easily sacked if there were any units in those galleys. :cringe:

1. 70 AD – Cats go 2 for 3 bombarding units in the open. A spear next to Nagoya which is redlined by the cats and flawlessly killed by an elite sword. Since we have to get positive cash flow, I drop lux by 10%, and hire a tax man and a belly dancer.

IBT – Henry just about empties Nagoya. Five archers and a spear step out and next to Izumo. A SOD of barbs (33 horse & 1 warrior) come out of the fog south of Yokohama.

2. 90 AD – So there are 7 archers within striking range of Izumo. Oh, did I mention the archer that was dropped off next to Kagoshima. I decide that we need to keep Izumo, so I move our elite archer back into the city. Oh, and our curragh is being chased by a Portuguese galley. I send a warrior out of Edo on a suicide mission and he kills one of the archers around Izumo. This game is by no means out of the woods. The IBT will be telling.

IBT – No attack on Izumo. We lose the curragh. No attack on Kagoshima. 8 barb horses move next to Yokohama. The rest move towards the west.

3. 110 AD - Sapporo is now hooked up. Move the workers off towards the iron. Scout’s other buddy takes out an archer. Our elite sword in Izumo takes out a spear. I step out of Yokohama and allow the barbs to have their way with our city.

IBT – Henry wants something ridiculous for peace. We lose 8G to the barbs and a citizen. Henry moves the archers back towards Izumo.

4. 130 AD – Start to threaten Nagoya again. Move lux to 50% and fire the specialsists. We’re break even right now.

IBT – We kill two archers attacking Izumo and lose our elite sword. Izumo riots even though there are two content citizens there. :hmm: Barbs sack Yokohama again and steal 15G. I think they’re done.

5. 150 AD – There are at least three defenders in Nagoya as all three spears are wounded by our cats. Kill a wounded archer trying to heal. Start hooking up the ivory. Move to hook up the iron.

IBT – An archer attacking Izumo dies. The Chinese drop off an archer and a warrior next to Kagoshima.

6. 170 AD – Assault on Nagoya next turn. Scout’s other buddy takes out a spear in the open. Hire some specialists due to the movement of some MPs.

IBT – Our spear in Kagoshima defeats both Chinese attackers. England and Azteca start the Library.

7. 190 AD – Cats go 3 for 5 at Nagoya. We then kill all four defenders and the city is back in our hands. The Portuguese citizen is resisting.

IBT – A volcano SW of Yokohama erupts. Cool video. I have the save if anyone is interested. A single archer counter attacks at Nagoya and dies.

8. 210 AD – Our iron is hooked up again and we start producing swords. We bombard to red and kill a spear and an archer outside Nagoya.

IBT – Our spear guarding the ivory workers is attacked and barely survives

9. 230 AD – We bombard down the last spear and Scout’s other buddy clears our land of Portuguese units for the first time in a long time. Move to secure our frontiers and heal.

IBT – Since no one is building Zeus right now, I decide to start it in Kyoto.

10. 250 AD – Maneuver and heal.

After Action – I have some archers around the countryside for homeland defense. All our cities are now garrisoned. Time to start a road over the mountains and start building cities again. We’ll probably start seeing MDI soon. Cats are very helpful. Are we allowed to make peace with Henry, or does the variant say we have to stay at war until he is dead for his poor decision to raze Tokyo. I wouldn’t mind going to AW with Henry.

Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bede02,_250_AD.SAV

It would be really, really nice if we got SoZ. :need_a_fingers_crossed_smiley:

I can't remember the name of the town offhand, but it's the one with the wheat. We could pop the occasional settler out of there while Zeus builds. If we could get combinations of archers and swords into those mountains, we might be able to put more resources into settling the area east of the mountains.

I vote AW w/ Portugal. Not for sacking Tokyo, but for killing my Little Buddy. His death must be avenged.

Edit: Nice job getting Nagoya back for us Bugsy! :thumbsup:

Our hilly land makes it very difficult to recapture our cities. We need to keep a garrison on all the coastal cities. It seems Henry has actually figured out how to transport units in his galleys.

What are our chances of getting horses connected? A quick reaction force of 4-5 horses would be nice to have...

Do either horsemen or swords upgrade to Samurai? (It's been a while since I've played Japan...)

Horsemen upgrade to Sams. Do we have horses near by?

Horsemen upgrade to Sams. Do we have horses near by?IIRC, they're only a few tiles from the Ivory, claimed by one of our cities in the mountains. Therein lies the rub - it's a dangerous place for worker turns.

:worship: Well done all!

From the variant rules:
If an AI razes one of your cities, that civ must be eliminated.

Doesn't say anything about AW, but since Henry appears to be the only troublemaker actually on the island, and he qualifies for elimination, let's finish the job if it doesn't set us back even farther than we are. Another question of balance.....

Who's up?

Roster Check
SirLenTaft-over to you
SesnOfWthr-on deck
Bede
scout-reversed the tide of war
DeceasedHorse-rolled them back
Sir Bugsy-reclaimed our lands

We should already have horses hooked up, under Shimonoseki, IIRC.

It would be nice if we can finish settling our area so we don't have to worry about barbs anymore, but of course that means we'll need more MP's.

If we can SAFELY move on Henry, then my vote goes for that, FWIW. I'd like to be able to give him a little back, if you know what I mean... :evil:

IIRC, the variant also calls for us to raze the foreign cities. We'll need to bring some settlers along on our rampage.

I know you guys are probably REALLY anxious to let me at this again, but I think Sir Len is on vacation until sometime around the 8th. If you view his public profile his sig indicates that day, but he must not have enabled his sig to show.

He's in another SG with me, which is the only reason I knew.

Sesn - I have complete confidence in your abilities. You'll do great.

Sesn - I have complete confidence in your abilities. You'll do great.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Bugsy. :)

IIRC, "all requests for skips are automatically honored", so this is my got it, but dispatches will probably be very late tonight, or possibly tomorrow even.

You've got my vote also.

Anybody who can find Salamanca and a horde of Byzantine cavalry can deal with Henry.

So take it away and have some fun with sharp weapons.

Give 'em hell Sesn! :hammer:

***
He barely recognized these lands, it had been so long.

As Sesn walked back through the streets, fully 30 days removed from his summons to the council, he noticed common traits in all the faces he saw. They were determined and more importantly, they were unafraid. Though these peasants had suffered the agonies of war for quite some time, their spirits would not be broken. Indeed, they had better be strong, the decree to destroy the heathens in the west meant that they would be put to the test for even longer still.

The council had summoned him to answer for his errors, and these people were the reason why. He knew his fate was merely a grain of sand crushed under the wheel of destiny, but the power that was hidden within these people was much greater. One day, they would rule this world, he knew that, and he merely hoped to be around to enjoy it.

Sesn was bothered by his presence here. He had been given a reprieve in a very unforgiving society. Mistakes like his were usually remedied in only one way. He guessed it was due to the aptitude his fellow commanders showed, and they no doubt argued in his favor. One thing was sure though, there could be no more mistakes.

Having reached his headquarters, he set his jaw and went to work….

***

Initial assessment:
We’re down all visible techs to every one but Aztecs. Dead last in score, with less than half of China’s. We’re weak compared to all. Henry is willing to give us HBR, Myst, or writing for peace though. That is surely a good sign.

The good news is, of course, that we have all our cities back, with a modest amount of forces to defend with. The cats would be nice to start moving on the Portugese, but we’ll need a mountain road first.

There is a stack of barbs south of Yokohama. Since we only have 24g, they will probably be allowed to do their damge, but I could also get three spears there before they arrive….

It will also be difficult to peel off any settlers with the current production we have. Workers are actually the biggest problem. I am able to MM five turns off the SoZ (now 20).

IT – Dutch declare on English. Let’s hope they beat on each other for a while. Liz starts Sun Tzu’s. Willie starts Great Lib. (<-- Maybe we could consider a GL slingshot…) five archers move towards Edo.

260 ad (1) – Move MOST of our troops towards Edo to secure the mountains. Evacuate Yokohama.

IT- See an Aztec galley on the backside of our continent. Dutch build Tillburg on SE tip of our continent. Barbs in Yokohama only take 1g each. :D

270 ad (2) – Cats go a healthy 4 for 6 outside Edo. Elite sword kills reg archer, but gets redlined. Vet sword flawless and promotes vs 2/3 archer. SOB (Scout’s other buddy :lol: ) kills 2/3 archer, -2 hp. Vet archer wins vs 2/3 archer, - 2hp.

280 ad (3) – Fortify/heal troops, as I watch the next wave archers approach Edo. A trade must have ended, since we’re suddenly making 12 gpt. I decide to try to buy HBR so we can start making horses, that we can upgrade instead of archers. The best I can do is 8 gpt and 18g, for a net of 178g. We currently make 12gpt at 0 sci, and can research HBR in 6 at 50%, with a surplus of 1 gpt. I decide to research.

IT – Chinese and English start Sistine’s. English may be the runaway, as they’re the only civ that is a republic. Aztecs are in anarchy, and everyone else is a Monarchy.

290 ad (4) – Cats go 5 for 6 outside Edo. These things must be blessed, or something. Elite sword (-2) beats 2/3 archer. SOB flawless vs 2/3 archer. Vet archer loses 2 and promotes vs 2/3 archer. 3/5 sword (-1) wins vs 1/3 archer. Vet sword promotes and disperses Scout’s Aryan camp.

IT – Potugese found Guarda on northern tip of continent.

300 ad (5) – Cats go 3 for 6. SOB flawless vs 2/3 archer. Vet archer (-1) promotes vs reg archer. 3/5 sword flawless vs 1/3 spear.

IT – lose reg spear to reg archer (-1).

310 ad (6) – Cats go 4 for 6. Elite archer (-3) wins vs 2/3 archer. Elite archer (-1) wins vs 2/3 archer. Vet sword wins flawless vs 1/3 archer.

320 ad (7) – I get a 1 turn respite to heal troops and regroup.

330 ad (8) – Make that a 2 turn respite. I would like to be more aggressive, but I can’t take the cats with me and they have been the equalizers thus far.

340 ad (9) – Cats go 4 for 7. Elite sword (-4) wins vs reg archer. Elite sword (-4) wins vs 2/3 spear. SOB loses to a 2/3 archer (-1). Sorry Scout. :( Elite archer loses to 2/3 archer. Vet sword wins vs 2/3 archer. After beating me over the head with a brick this turn, the rng decides to settle up with me:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bede02_MGL.JPG

I will leave the leader for the team to decide his fate, as I won’t have any more leader chances this round anyhow. Reg spear flawlessly disperses an Uzbek encapment.

IT – Dutch and English make nice. Chinese found new Canton on our island. Might be able to talk peace if we can raze it….

350 ad (10) – Regroup my units, fortifying them in Satsuma and Edo. Notice I can afford to upgrade a vet warrior in kagoshima. And so I pass it to the next better player, Brother Bede.

Recap: there is a settler headed for the hills next to Izumo, at least that was my intention. The MGL is waiting in Kagoshima, I might suggest that a sword army could make a big difference for us. As noted, most of our troops are in Edo and Satsuma. Henry originally was focused on Edo, but now seems to be trying to pillage the horses that aren’t hooked up. I was support a large kill ratio until I got burned a bit on turn 9. The MGL kind of makes up for it though. We really need a road over the mountains so we can bring the cats in an advance on Henry. Also, there is still a resisting citizen in Nagoya.
EDIT: Forgot to mention SoZ is due in 9.

***

And thus, Sesn handed the reigns back to his compatriot, feeling somewhat satisfied. He had not fully atoned for his previous transgressions, but it was a beginning.

In the Land of the Rising Sun, there is always tomorrow.

***

>>>SAVE<<< (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bede02_350_AD.zip)

Lookin' good! :thumbsup:

My vote is for a sword army. They get an extra move in C3C, and are absolutely deadly.

Oh man - if we manage SoZ... We'd have 3/2/2 AC and a Sword army that could keep up...

Henry shall wear his crown upon a troubled brow.

Sword army! Sword Army! Sword Army!

Pillage! Pillage! Pillage!

Great playing Sesn!!

Let's resettle the Tokyo spot.

Swords and cavalry, swords and cavalry. Nice job, Sesn.

The Navigator shall rue that day....

And now the monk emerges from his mountain hermitage, having exchanged his bright orange robe for sword and buckler...

Ariving in Kyoto by dawn's early light: 'tls only fitting

As the rising sun illiminates the dusty lanes of Kyoto a tall and emaciated soldier slips quietly through the clots of early risers. His sword needs sharpening and his breastplate polishing before he can continue on his way to the meeting place of the Council of Regents. His arrival is unremarked by all but one Daimyo recently arrived from the western battlefields.

Apologies to the team for delay, both Bede and Dell needed defragging...Playing now.

terminator voice/ I'm back /end terminator voice

After a long, hot bath in the volcanic hot springs at Yokohama, Bede collects his armor and sword (all sharp and shiny) and pays his first call on the Council in Kyoto. The Regents have been heartened by the recent victories in the west, but perturbed by the recent arrival of the Dutch and the attitude of the Chinese, who seem determined to poach our territory in the north. The warrior-monk moves quietly among them, engaging in polite converstaion, guaging attitudes, offering words of encouragement. His message is a simple one: "Patience".

He points out that the Portugese lack the resources to build horsemen and swordsmen, that the Dutch offer opportunities for learning the use of new tools, and that the Chinese settlement is small and weak.

"There is a man in Kagoshima who can build an army of swordsman to punish the Portugese. Henry is already tired of war and will offer many concessions for peace, including Guarda in the north. The Chinese were hoodwinked to join in the war against us and will soon grow weary of carrying it forward. A successful attack on New Canton will bring them to their senses. Defend the mountains, and we shall prevail."

To prove his point the monk sends a messenger to the Dutch and buys knowledge of Writing from them. It costs 13gpt but the security it affords is well worth it. Soon the Protugese archers in the mountains will destroy themselves against the bastions at Edo and Satsuma, Tokyo will be rebuilt and we will have might mounted warriors.

The citizens of Kyoto agree to forego their noon meal in order to build the monument allowing the training of powerful horsemen.

1-360AD
Catapaults, archer and swordsmen eliminate the Portugese forces approaching Satsuma and reveal a Portugese Longbow on the plains.

After a long, hot bath in the volcanic hot springs at Yokohama, Bede collects his armor and sword (all sharp and shiny) and pays his first call on the Council in Kyoto. The Regents have been heartened by the recent victories in the west, but perturbed by the recent arrival of the Dutch and the attitude of the Chinese, who seem determined to poach our territory in the north. The warrior-monk moves quietly among them, engaging in polite converstaion, guaging attitudes, offering words of encouragement. His message is a simple one: "Patience".

He points out that the Portugese lack the resources to build horsemen and swordsmen, that the Dutch offer opportunities for learning the use of new tools, and that the Chinese settlement is small and weak.

"There is a man in Kagoshima who can build an army of swordsman to punish the Portugese. Henry is already tired of war and will offer many concessions for peace, including Guarda in the north. The Chinese were hoodwinked to join in the war against us and will soon grow weary of carrying it forward. A successful attack on New Canton will bring them to their senses. Defend the mountains, and we shall prevail."

To prove his point the monk sends a messenger to the Dutch and buys knowledge of Writing from them. It costs 13gpt but the security it affords is well worth it. Soon the Protugese archers in the mountains will destroy themselves against the bastions at Edo and Satsuma, Tokyo will be rebuilt and we will have might mounted warriors.

The citizens of Kyoto agree to forego their noon meal in order to build the monument allowing the training of powerful horsemen.

1-360AD
Catapaults, archer and swordsmen eliminate the Portugese forces approaching Satsuma and reveal a Portugese Longbow on the plains.

The Aztecs are building the Statue of Zeus and the Chinese have started Knights Templar.

3-380AD
Attack Guarda and eliminate the defensive garrison, leaving a longbow in place. The Chinese land two warriors between Yokohama and Satsuma, which are easy prey for the cats and swords at Satsuma. A Chinese MDI sorties out of New Canton. A veteran sword out of Nagasaki kills the MDI. Mishandle the garrison at Izumo and it riots. Two Portugese archers and a longbow are approaching Bede's Bane at Satsuma. A Portugese spearman is in the desert between Edo and Izumo. The cats cripple him but he almost kills an elite sword out of Edo.

4-390AD
Destroy another short stack of archers and longbowmen in Bede's Bane and gain one promotion to elite and another to veteran. Henry will now make major concessions for peace, various combinations of cash, technology and Guarda.

5-7 410AD-420AD
Repositioning and healing. In 410 kill a Chinese longbow out ot New Canton. In 420 China lands a pike and archer between Nagasaki and Shimoneski. Our swords and cats kill a couple of invading Protugese apears between Ise and Izumo. Withdraw troops in the north back toward Nagasaki and Shimoneski. Willie wants to extort 20 from us and Bede counsels him "Patience" He declares war. The Statue of Zeus completes in Kyoto which triggers our Golden Age. The Chinese cut the iron road though and Shimoneski riots.


8-430
We lose Matsuyama to a Portugese longbow and a sword at Nagasaki to a Chinese archer.

9-440AD
Kill some more Portugese in the mountains and start swords catapaults and an army toward the plains. Henry will give Guarda and Matsayuma for peace and either Literature or Philosophy. Elizabeth of England will join us against the Dutch for a mortgage on our Golden Age.

The Chinese archer dies promoting a spear at Nagasaki.

The Portugese sacrifice more archers and the gods are pleased to grant the Japanese another leader.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bede02_01.jpg

Hirohito forms an army in Satsuma. The Western forces spearheaded by Sesn's Mountain Death Dealers (cats, a horseman and a sword army) move onto the plain. Bede's Battalion forms up in Edo.

Bede puts aside his now nicked sword and dented buckler with relunctance, but it is time to repair to his mountains and the solitude of his vigil. There remains much undone. Matsuyama must be regained and New Canton captured. The English Queen will still offer her assistance against the Dutch and it should be secured before the erratic, fickle woman changes her mind and her dress. Henry may even agree to fight the Dutch with us, but only after we secure the western plains and push him back his jungle.

The moon silvers the snow on the mountains, the sea glints like a well used sword and steam rises from the hot springs at Yokohama. The monk in the orange robe steals out the city gates of Kyoto, stopping briefly to offer a blessing to another night time traveler on a sweated and exhausted horse.


scout++++++++++++<UP
DeceasedHorse
Sir Bugsy
SirLenTaft
SesnOfWthr
Bede

WooHoo! [dance] I have REALLY "got it" (frothing at the mout to "got it") :drool:

Nice turns, brother Bede! :thumbsup:

Edit: you guys with the cute little red-head advisors seem to be having quite the leader luck. I wonder if she's cute enought to throw the RNG? :hmm:

The turns look good, Brother.

I do unfortunately have some rain for the parade, though:

You may never ally, sign a Right of Passage, MPP, or embargo with another civilization.

So the Lizzie thing is out. :(

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Footersm.gif

The bartender nervously greeted his newest customer. All his life he had served soldiers in his bar in the Portugese town of Alacer de Sal, usually before they went to the mountains. He did not think himself a good bartender, for he got little repeat business. Most of the archers and spearman never came back to his bar. Maybe this customer would be different. Aside from the sword he carried, he was Japanese.

"C-c-can I get you something?" Said the bartender?

"What do you have?" replied the soldier.

"Not much, I'm afraid. It seems our trade route to our old capitol is broken, and we do not have a trade route to our new capitol..."

The soldier was silent for a moment.

"Perhaps things will be better when we are connected to our new capitol." The bartender was doing his best to be accomodating to his conqueror.

The conqueror returned a silent, expressionless stare.

"I can't quite put my finger on it. You seem quite serious... but that isn't the word I'm looking for. I can't describe it, you seem..."

"Defiant?" replied the soldier.

"Yes, that's it!" Replied the bartender. Nervously trying to change to a polite tone, he continued "So, what do you do in the army? Are you a swordsman? I've never met a swordsman."

"No, I am not a swordsman. I command the Japanese Army. For a few more turns at least." replied the soldier.

"Wow, you must know the emperor personally then."

The bartender was glad he had been polite, as he had clearly underestimated the soldier's standing. Now being more attentive to the soldier, he noticed that the soldier carried a book. He had been told that the Japanese did not know literature. How could this one have a book? He tried to get a glance at the title... written in a language he did not speak. The cover said "Arathorn's guide to Var..."

Seeing the bartenders prying eyes, the soldier quickly hid the book. "We have not yet established a Monarchy. We have no emperor."

The bartender continue to make conversation. "I am curious, what do you mean by turns?"

"I mis-spoke. I meant years. There are some things you must not know, for they are beyond your understanding."

Thinking he could gain favor with the Japanese commander if he could get him to talk about himself, The bartender wisely dropped the subject of "turns".

"I see, well then... if you have no emperor, who do you report to?"

"I have no master in this world." replied the soldier.

The bartender's face went flush. Suddenly, his knees felt weak. His great-great-great grandfather had told a story of a dangerous Japanese leader who had no master. Nobody had believed the story, which is why his decendants were forced to become bartenders and barmaids. Could the stories be true? Could such a thing as a Ronin exist?

The soldier stood up, and removed a small silver object from his pocket.

"Wh...What is that?" Asked the bartender, now clearly nervous.

"It's called a Zippo." said the soldier.

"Where did you get it, and what does it do?" Asked the bartender, no longer able to hide his fear.

"It too is not of this world." With that, the soldier opend the object, rubbed it with his thumb, and a small flame emerged. Tossing it to the stone floor, the soldier turned to leave.

The stone floor was burning! How could this be? The bartender frantically tried to put the flame out, only to see it spread. If he couldn't put it out, his bar would surely burn to the ground. A flame hot enough to burn stone might even burn the whole town!

"WHY HAVE YOU DONE THIS?!?!?!" Screamed the bartender, as his shoe caught fire.

"Because you've offered me nothing to pillage first." And with that, the soldier left.

Pre-flight check:

Let's see...we're at war with the Dutch now. I didn't even know them before. Dial up our trading partners and see what they've got. Well... they've got a lot of techs.

Buy Mysticism for 112g+1gpt. That'll keep Lizzy off out of MAs against us, and get us another step closer to Monarchy.

Monty wants 29g+18gpt for Poly. I'll let our treasury build a little...

Change Nagasaki to Sword

IBT - A Portugese Longbow takes out one of our archers. China is rebuffed requesting an audience. Peace will come on our terms, Mao.
Edo Rax>warrior | Kagoshima Warrior>Warrior | Nara Catapult>Archer | Izumo Rax>Spear | Shimoneski Sword>Sword |
Chinese start Sistine, Knights Templar
English are building Sun Tzu, KT
Dutch Complete Knights Templar

Turn 1 (460) Shuffle some Catapults north out of Edo. (we need fire support in the north...)

Outside Shimoneski, a Regular sword kills a chinese pike, preserving a road, and promoting to veteran. (Shimoneski changed to rax, MM to get back to 2spt)

Advance troops on Alacer de Sal

IBT - Kyoto trains a spear, starts a settler.
Nagasaki riots, hires a taxman
Sapporo Catapult>Archer | Chinese are building Leo's

Turn 2 (470)

Sesn's Death Dealer Captures Alacer de Sal, and I burn it to the ground. That was for Scout's Little Buddy, you Portugese Puta.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bede2_560AD_NEW-1.jpg

Load The Monk's Sword and a veteran Sword into our fresh army.

Horses are connected outside Satsuma, swap a couple of Archer builds to horses.

Bede's Battalion is dispatched to the north.

IBT - a Chinese Spear pillages our Iron. They shall pay for that.
Our People want to build the Heroic Epic!
Our first Ancient Cavalry comes on line.
Portugese advance 3 Longbows on Nagasaki.

Turn 3 (480) Lots of troop movement, Lose a veteran sword to a chinese spear on our Iron hill.

IBT - *****Siege of Nagasaki****
First Portugese longbow loses a HP to a catapult I put there last turn, dies to our Elite spear.
Second Portugese Longbow loses a HP to our Archer, dies to our spear.
Third Portugese Longbow kills our spear, but Nagasaki (and our source of Iron) HOLDS!!!

Chinese drop off an MDI next to Nagoya (Glad I put Bede's Battalion there to heal last turn to heal)

Osaka Catapult > Horse
Satsuma Temple>Rax
Kagoshima Horse>Horse
Nara Archer>Horse
Nagoya Warrior>Spear

Turn 3 (490)
Monty wants a King's Ransom for Polytheism 216g+8gpt. I talk him down to 200g+7gpt
Nagasaki is now connected again.
Our warrior dispatches the last Portugese longbow, and Promotes.
Lose a horse to Chinese MDI, promoting him, Bede's Battalion dispatches him with ease.
Our first AC dies to that stupid Chinese Spear on our Iron Hill.

IBT - Kyoto Settler>Horse | Edo Warrior>Horse | Izumo Spear>Horse
Dutch complete Sun Tzu's, Aztecs cascade to Sistine

Turn 4 (500)
Elite Sword kills Chinese MDI, fails promotion
Outside Leiria, an Elite Sword kills a Portugese Longbow, fails to promote.
Vet sword kills portugese longbow, Elite sword kills longbow.

IBT - Portugese Longbow dies to our elite Sword.

Turn 5 (510) Our Catapults redline interloping Portugese longbow and Chinese spear. 4/5 warrior kills spear, fails promotion. Vet Warrior kills Longbow. Iron re-connected in 2 turns.

Our Catapults go 3/4 at Leiria. There was a longbow in there, and Sesn's Portugese Death dealer runs out of movement points before Leiria runs out of defenders.

Hire a Scientist in Kyoto and start on Monarchy (The AI hates to trade government techs, no matter how well known)

IBT - Several Chinese troops hit the beaches. This will be the beginning of the end of the Chinese war once I take these guys out. Kagoshima trains a horse, starts a spear. Sapporo Trains a horse, starts another.

Turn 6 (520)

Horse from Kagoshim a kills Portugese Longbow outside Izumo, Elite Sword kills chinese warrior, fails promotion. Vet Warrior dies to Chinese Archer, and Bede's Battalion is needed to dispatch the archer.

Sesn's Portugese Slayer kills 2 more Spears...

IBT - The portugese advance many longbows near Leiria.
Kyoto produces a horse and and AC

Turn 7 (530)

Upgrade 2 warriors to swords in Nagasaki, redline and kill a chinese spear an another Portugese Longbow.
Move mounted units north, Bede's Batallion dispatches a Portugese spear that advanced onto our southern horse supply.
I pillage some tiles and re-consolidate the stack near leiria.

IBT - Chinese found New Tsingtao on the site I sacked earlier.
Kagoshima Spear>Settler
Nara Horse>Horse

Turn 8 (540) Advance troops on Matsuyama, kill another portugese longbow headed for our Iron, advance a few troops and a settler pair on New Canton for Raze and Replace.

IBT - a portugese Longbow promotes our AC to 4/5, LOTS of Portugese Units advance near Leiria.

Kyoto Spear>Settler (time for some Raze and Replace)
Osaka Horse>Sword
Satsuma Rax>Spear
Izumo Horse>Sword
Chinese complete Sistine.

Turn 9 (550)
There are EIGHT Portugese longbows in range of our stack (and our catapults) near Leiria. I take a few hit points away.

At Matsuyama, our cats go 2/4, Our AC kills a Spear, fails promotion. A veteran sword finishes the job, and we take the city back.

...and scout forgets to save the screenie. :wallbash:

IBT - Portugese Longbow stacks head southward.
Dutch land a MDI next to Matsuyama.
Nagoya Spear>Horse | Yokohama Rax>Spear | Shimoneski Rax>Spear | Sapporo Horse>Horse

Turn 10 (560)

I hate "turn 10" :cry:

Bombard some Longbows outside Leiria, use a healthy horse to clip one. Bede's Batallion and an elite sword clip 2 more WEST of the mountains, oustide Rio Janerio.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bede2_560AD_NEW-3.jpg

Vet Sword at Matsuyama dispatches redlined Dutch MDI.

The Dutch will talk to us now. Interestingly, "Seoul" is among his list of cities.

I advance a few troops on New Canton...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bede2_560AD_NEW-4.jpg

After Action Review:

The Good: We got Matsuyama back, sacked a Portugese city, and are in position to sack New Canton.

The Bad: Nobody wants to be reasonable at the negotiating table. I started research on Monarchy because we really need to get out of Despotism, and it will be a while yet before we can spare the shields to build galleys and go after Mao. I think we may have to land troops on China's soil and sack something "over there" if we are to get straight peace with the Chinese.

The Ugly: Henry is sending a LOT of Longbows east, but I think we can deal with them using speed to our advantage.

Diplomatic/economic notes:

Monty doesn't have horses or Iron. Both he and Lizzy have contact with Korea and Spain. Both want a pretty penny for them.

After upgrading some swords and buying 2 techs, we probably ought to watch any 20 turn deals. We're at 17g and +18gpt, but the end of our Golden Age will change that income.

The Dutch are probably the runaway civ. It appears they've taken a big chunk of Korea. Once we get China and Portugal kicked out of the north, we need to make a concerted effort to get the Dutch off this landmass. The Highland Dutch, the lowland Dutch, the rotterdam Dutch, and the Otherdam Dutch - all of 'em.

Both Mao and William want some sort of ransom for peace. I didn't bother to check with the Navigator. As far as I'm concerned, this became an AW game with Portugal when Tokyo was sacked.

Tactical situation:

I started switching to Horsemen because I think speed will be key now that we have a military presence west of the mountains. Horsemen can skirmish stacks of Longbows down to size, and Henry has a lot of longbows. We still need to keep building swords, and Bede's Batallion is actually a "Battalion(-)". It needs another sword.

My recommendation on tactics would be to consolidate stacks of horses under our Armies, with a few swords for finishing off a city's last defenders. Keep the catapults that are east of the mountains on that side of the range for homeland defense. I would also keep the AC at home until we get a few more of them.

I also started some settler pairs. As I understand the variant, we are to "Raze and Replace" what we take. I would continue to build some settler pairs in Kyoto and Kagoshima, for infill settling as well as Raze & Replace operations. I would send the next settler pair towards Tsingtao. It would be more sensible to sue for peace with Mao after he's kicked off our landmass.

These would be my tactical priorities:
1) Kick the chinese off this landmass, and try to get straight peace.
2) Control the flatlands west of the mountains with Armies and Horses.
3) Kick the Dutch off this landmass, settle the east.
4) Start pushing west, and sack everything and anything Portugese.

So, for the next better player, > > The Save < < (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bede02_RisingSun_560AD.SAV)

OUR world:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bede2_560AD_NEW-5.jpg

Well played Bede and Scout!

I would say that we were very lucky that Henry did not haver a source of iron. This could have been really ugly if he had been throwing swords at us this whole time.

BTW - Unless someone doesn't have Monarchy and we're looking to trade it, we should dump the research on it ASAP. The first government we can switch to is Feudalism, per Bede's variant.

DeceasedHorse++++++++++++<UP
Sir Bugsy
SirLenTaft
SesnOfWthr
Bede
scout

The sun continues to rise. Well done Ronin with the strange device on his saddlecloth.

BTW - Unless someone doesn't have Monarchy and we're looking to trade it, we should dump the research on it ASAP. The first government we can switch to is Feudalism, per Bede's variant.

I didn't realize Feudalism was part of the variant... I remember discussing Feudalism since we were going with an ICS type buildout...but I see 2 problems with Feudalism at this point.

1) We never achieved that tight build-out
2) We're a long, LONG way from Feudalism
3) Feudalism is slight prone to war weariness, and I don't see us at peace in the future. We may never be at peace, if the AI will not take straight peace.

In my opinion, the only tech worth pursuing right now is Monarchy. Even if we had Map Making, I don't see us in a strong enough condition to take the war to China. When Portugal is a shadow of its former self, then maybe we can build some boats and go after China... but we're not there yet.

At the moment, there simply aren't any techs available to us that aren't already known, and we do not have the time to spend on infrastructure that becomes available with most of the techs even if we did know them. Maybe we can build some markets when we are in sight of Lisbon, but not now. We need to devote most of our production to ground combat units.

Our best option for getting techs is beat some out of Henry. In my book, we should simply eliminate him, and consolidated this continent.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to try Feudalism. But by the time we get there, the rest of the AI will be in the late Middle Ages. I would like to own this continent before they get Cavalry.

Believe me, I would prefer Monarchy to a govt I have very little experience with too, but....

Variant Rules:

Arathorn's Defiant Variant with the added requirement of only Despotism, Feudalism, and Fascism for governments.

Sorry team. :blush: Looks like I pulled a major :smoke: move.

No worries, it's only five turns at minimum research, no harm done.

I just felt bad that I had to put the kibosh down on a nicely argued post. ;)

@Bede: How did it come to pass that we are at war with the Dutch? I saw some stuff in your log that indicated Lizzy would enter an alliance against them, but I don't see how that started? IIRC, we were already at war with them when I got the save...

I bought a tech from Lizzy to get a gpt deal going, but entered no alliances...

Circa 420AD:
"Willie wants to extort 20 from us and Bede counsels him "Patience" He declares war."

He didn't take my advice, obviously needed the money now though I had signed a 13gpt deal with him for writing around 400 or so.

@Bede: I must have missed (or mis-read) that portion of your log... but now it's clear why gpt for tech deals were still available on my turn, even though we bought writing for gpt and then went to war with William.

Too bad we can't form alliances... my gut tells me that there are some AI that wouldn't mind knocking William down a peg or two... like the former ruler of Seoul (if we ever meet him).

Oh, how I wish I was up in this one. I am enjoying this one a little too much for my own good. :D

I have to admit, I too am more enthralled with this game than perhaps any other I have played thus far.

Nice job putting it together, Bede. :goodjob:

It's a great crew to have for a battlefest!!

:thanx: for coming along.

*ahem*

:bump:

Got it.
Sorry for the delay; I just started working, and I'm practically doing so full time, which is kind of a shock for me as this is my first job. Furthermore, civ decided to crap out on me, but I'm pretty sure I can get back online if I restore some back-up files. Will post tommorrow in any case.

Pre Turn: Swap research over to Map Making. Fire an unnecessary taxmen in Nagasaki.

IBT: Portuguese hordes continue streaming east. Henry lands a regular archer next to Matsuya. Kagoshima builds settler, starts on temple so it can (eventually) get access to the whales.

Turn 1: Catapults open fire on the spears defending New Canton, smashing the defenders. The Portuguese marines are blasted to dust by catapult fire than dispatched by the nearby ¾ sword, which promotes to Elite. Veteran sword kills 2/3 spear in New Canton, no damage. Vet archer goes next, and wins losing one hp, promoting to Elite. New Canton razed. Mao will now accept straight peace, but I think I will remove New Tsingtao first and try and get a tech or at least a discount out of the peace treaty. Destroy the two Portuguese Longbows hanging around New Tstingtao, and get an elite horsemen. Bede’s Battalion and the Elite sword hanging out with him take out three Portuguese longbows in the lowlands west of Bede’s Bane. Take out another pair of Longbows in the outskirts of Leira.

IBT: I-uh-crap. The AI actually is willing to attack an army. I suppose Bede’s battalion really did need that defensive bonus from the third sword. Bede’s battalion brought down by Portuguese longbows.

Turn 2: Found Toyama on the hill outside of Kagoshima. Found Fukushima on the ruins of New Canton. New Tsingtao falls to a single attack by an Elite Sword, city is auto-razed. Invite Mao to a peace conference. The Tokyo Accords (hehe) consist of us paying China ten gpt, 50 gold, and promising not to kill Mao’s soldiers anymore in exchange for the secrets of Map Making and contact with the Koreans. Wang Kon is up the usual techs on us. We could still buy literature or philosophy or any of the cheaper AA techs, but I am wary of driving us too far into the red when our GA ends. Drop lux tax to 10% with no apparent side effects. Start harbors in a couple of cities.

IBT: The Dutch start Leo’s, and land an archer near Matsuya. Portuguese Carrack spotted, probably on a course for Guarda. Portuguese stack of six l-bows, 1 archer, and a spear move into the foothills to the south of our position on the Murderhorn Mountain.

Turn 3: Destroy several Portuguese units advancing towards Bede’s Bane, and move spears to garrison the southern edge of the mountain range in an effort to keep the Portuguese back. Auto-raze Guardas. Two horsemen promote to Elite. Kill the Dutch Marines.

IBT: One Portuguese longbowmen manages to kill a spear and take one of the mountains. Four others fail to defeat another, and he promotes to Elite. The Portuguese change directions again. The Dutch found Hilversum to the southeast.

Turn 4: Defeat the sole surviving Portuguese Lbow in the mountains with vet horsemen promote to Elite. Eliminate four Portuguese longbows in a series of pitched battles west of Leira. Sesn’s Death Dealers pillage the Portuguese ivory squares. Diplo check reveals that Henry will give us every remaining AA tech except Monarchy for peace. I am very strongly tempted.

IBT: The Portuguese re-deploy their longbow hordes to take on our invasion force.
Then they start construction on MAGELLAN’S VOYAGE. <URK>.

Turn 5: Time to pause for discussion. Is peace with Henry an option? We are falling further and further behind, as the AI is practically to the Industrial age by this point. On the other hand, if Henry is able to research at this speed while simultaneously fighting a war with us for several thousand years, giving him a chance to regain his balance and get riflemen on-line may not be a good idea.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Westfront.JPG

Unfortunate news about the army. :(

IIRC, we did decide to go to AW with Henry, due to the razing of Tokyo. This is also implied in Arathorn's definition of the variant, although not expressly stated.

Either way, we should continue to move on Henry and see if we can't completely cripple him before we do make peace, if ever.

Forge on until Henry is down to one city, then make peace. In the meantime, can we trade our way into the MA?

I'm not convinced we're really all that far behind. When we get to the point that the Ancient Age techs become 4-turn techs at minimum research, we will officially be badly behind in tech.

I say we keep hammering away at Henry. Build a town on the desert Rockpile and let Henry come after it. I bet there's oil or salt there... the AI seem to like that spot. Using fast units we should be able to skirmish the longbows to death. Lots and lots of horses. Hit and run, hit and run. Henry's 30% production bonus won't matter if we kill 40% more than we lose...especially if we do it using 30-shield horses against 40-shield longbows. With careful tactics, I honestly think we can win a war of attrition against the Portugese - and I think Henry sees that.

Dang shame we lost Bede's Batallion... that's a setback. Hopefully we can get another leader soon. We need another sword army....

Watch the Dutch! They have Medeival Infantry, among other things.

I vote to press on. You're doing great DH! I think Henry has probably made a beeline to Navigation. Has he started Leo's? I bet he has just worked the upper tier. If we can ever get to the MA, we might be able to do some brokering. Then we could always steal some techs :devil2:

Are we still at mid-set here? Depending on what things look like, I may have an idea...

Are we still at mid-set here? Depending on what things look like, I may have an idea...

So don't keep us in suspense, what's the idea?

Well... it's a rough idea for controlling the plains while we kick William off this landmass and build up some reserves for homeland defense. The basic idea here is to control the plains, and create a vicious little meatgrinder for Henry's longbows.

In order to pull it off, we need to place highest priority on sacking/resettling New Tsingtao, and a high priority on sacking Rio in our order of battle. From that point our goal is to control the plains while we strengthen our homeland.

We consolidate 3 combined arms stacks... with stronger stacks in the north. The stacks would be made up of Spears, Archers (defensive bombard), Cats (offensive bombard) Swords, and Horses.

The northerly stack would be anchored by our sword army, with 2-3 archers, and 3-5 cats, and a few horses. The next 2 stacks would have 3 each of spears, archers, cats, swords, and horses.

The basic idea is that each tile adjacent to that stack's "patrol base" can be cleared of a small stack of longbows each turn. Bomb with cats, attack with swords, finish redlined units with archers, finish the last remaining longbow in the stack with horses (that can then retreat to the safety of the stack).

Yellow lines indicate needed roads... note the "interlocking fields of fire"...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/bede02_PLAINS_plan.jpg

Looks pretty fun actually. :)

My question would be one of time/resources.

How many of these units that we need do we currently have available? How long to get the rest? How many more units will we need to advance, or did you just plan on advancing as a "wall"?

It seems pretty apparent that henry can continue sending waves of archers at us, although we are certainly making progress. In order to finish swinging the war, we really need to find a way to get to his core cities, then mop up the edges.

@SesnOfWthr: good questions... and I don't have the answers. We may not ever get that third stack assembled... but the basic idea is to control the plains while we gather a little more strength at home. To this point we've been fighting a pretty reactionary war; any units built are immediately pressed into combat.

And I would not "advance a wall". The multiple stacks simply allow us to control a wider front. When the time is right to go on the offensive, I would consolidate the stacks as the move toward Leiria...

@DH,

Any progress?

Otherwise bumppity-bump!

I finished last night, but wasn't able to post the save due to internet troubles. :mad:

Turn 5: Continued. Our newly captured Portuguese slaves are currently finishing up the task of building a road through the mountains and into the ruins of New Tsingtao. Sapporo swapped to settler, due in four. I decide to wake up a fortified Elite 4/5 Elite sword guarding our catapult stack west of Leira and dispatch the damaged regular longbow nearby, rather than allowing him to attack next turn-turns out to be a good choice, as we get a leader! Fujiwara starts running on home.

IBT Portuguese SOD continues its march back west, now going after our elite* sword, General Procrastination.

Turn 6: Fujiwara builds an army in Ise. WM to England for communications with the Spanish. Spain has seven cities and is up on tech like everyone else.

IBT: Not much occurs.

Turn 7: Sesns’s Death Dealers and General Procrastination’s corps defeats 6 Portuguese longbow companies east of Leira. Load a vet sword into the new army.

IBT: Another wave of Longbows moves up to attack.

Turn 8: Golden Age ends, income goes to –5gpt and Nagoya and Sapporo riot. Hire two taxmen instead of raising Luxury tax, raising income to –1gpt. Load another sword into the new army. Found Suo near the ruins of New Canton. Raises our unit support such that our income increases to +5 gpt. Notice a rather excellent trade opportunity: Mao lacks horses! We can get approximately 2 tech from him; with the more expensive ones like Currency and Construction needing a bit of gold thrown in to the deal. The upside is that we will be that much closer to finally escaping from the Hell of Despotism. The downside is that we will be granting China accesses to Riders, and we all know how bad an idea that is. I go ahead and make the trade anyway.

Ibt: Portuguese marines land near Suo. The Chinese and the Aztecs both start Copernicus’s Observatory.

Turn 9: You know, it might be vaguely feasible to capture Tenochitlan and do a Great Library slingshot…Load a third sword into the new army, which is now officially operational. The 41st Bede’s Bane Rangers (our units holding the mountain range) are advancing on Rio Janeiro while General Procrastination keeps up the pressure farther west. Sesn’s slayer is lost attacking a wounded Portuguese longbowmen. With the acquisition of Construction our workers begin construction of the Rommel line out in the desert.

Turn 10: Ancient cavalry overrun Tilburg and raze the yellow blight to the ground. In the attack on Rio Janeiro, a company of elite horsemen generates a great leader!!!:

This overwrites the shot I took of the last one leader appearance, but that is a price I am willing to pay! I think an Ancient Cav army would be the best choice at this point. We have few available swords; most units are either elite or dead at this point. I decided that taking 24 turns to build the Heroic Epic in Kyoto wasn’t worth it, so Kyoto built a settler this turn instead, with the one building in Sapporo due in 2. The attack on Rio Janeiro has bogged down and we have taken a couple of casualties; fortunately the Elite sword covering the catapult squads took two longbows with him before dying, and the Portuguese seem to be busy farther west. The Portuguese hordes have slowed down to a gradual trickle; generally, 2-4 longbowmen will pop out of the fog a turn as opposed to the 6-7 that where constantly boiling out of the woodwork previously.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/GLBEDE.JPG The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/BEDE02_650AD.SAV)

If the Portugese have slowed to a trickle, any thoughts on using this leader for either the FP or HE?

I'd hate to have too many armies that are going to be obsolete by the time we can get them off of this rock.....

I think we ought to rush the HE. We're militaristic and that will give us 1 in 8 leader chances.

I think I might try Doc's pillage strategy. Oh yeah, I got it.

If the Portugese have slowed to a trickle, any thoughts on using this leader for either the FP or HE? Heroic Epic. We will need another leader for the FP, but I don't see that as a problem in this slugfest... I'd hate to have too many armies that are going to be obsolete by the time we can get them off of this rock.....Do not underestimate an army of AC. In Bede1 I once accidentally took out an infantryman, fortified in a size 8 city with an AC army. Granted, I think it was a 4-horse version, but I fumbled the move thinking I was grabbing a Cavalry army... (see "turns in Iroquois Hell - Hiawatha's, not ours...)

But the main reason I'm for HE is simple - we need more leaders. There is no way we're going to be able to wait for HE or FP to be built brick-by-brick. Let's build the HE somewhere we need a border expansion... Kagoshima?

Heroic Epic, we need sword wielding bards to sing of victories.

Nice job DH.

Keep up the heat Bugsy.

650 AD – We’re still in the AA. We’re still a despotism. Yes Sid, you’re right. We are a backward civilization.

Willie won’t give us a straight peace deal. Henry, I’m not even going to bother talking to that jerk.

We are still weak in our own backyard. With at least four Dutch galleys plying our waters we have some weak defenses. If they land next to Suo. Matsuyama or Fukushima, with any kind of force we’ll have difficulty defending. Additionally the Dutch are seafaring, so they could have more units offshore. Wake up a spear in Nagasaki and send it north towards Suo.

IBT – Great! The Dutch drop off SIX units next to Suo. The Portuguese have four Carracks off our coast. Gents! How many times to we want to lose cities in our backyard!

These turns might take a while :rolleyes:

To Be Continued.....

Ugh... hopefully those Carracks aren't full... re-taking cities is getting old..

OK team, after sleeping on it and much study, here is a plan.

1. Abandon Suo. The most I could get there is a spear and the horse that is already there. I wouldn't even have gotten the spear there if I hadn't moved him during the pre-flight. With three MDI, there is no way those two units could survive and hold the town. So I will Abandon Suo and make a stand in the hills just south of there.

2. I will send our armies on a pillaging expedition through Portugal. I will pull back about half of our force on the western front and hope I can keep the damage limited to Suo.

3. I will probably fight a holding action on the western front, until our homeland is secure.

4. This is now the second time I have seen a much improved amphibious ability from the AI in [c3c] We need to assume we can be struck anywhere any time.

I won't be playing the rest of these turns until lunch time, which is three hours away. So any comments, criticisms, and advise are welcome.

1. Abandon Suo....Abandon Suo and make a stand in the hills just south of there.This hurts, but is understandable... and better than letting them have/sack the town. 2. I will send our armies on a pillaging expedition through Portugal. I will pull back about half of our force on the western front and hope I can keep the damage limited to Suo.As much as I hate to see us commit both armies to this, Armies can pillage without losing a movement point in C3C. Pillage, move, pillage, move. You should be able to hurt Henry's production... I would probably avoid going too deep into portugal....maybe try to pillage everything in the 21 tiles around Leiria... this would seriously cramp his logistics as well as production in that town. 3. I will probably fight a holding action on the western front, until our homeland is secure.If you can, use faster units to skirmish. Since Henry is sending longbows, we should be able to win a war of attrition on that front. I daresay we ought to devote much of our production to horses and archers. Archers for the defensive bombard, horses to skirmish and reinforce any city on a moment's notice...

The Dutch MDI have me a lot more worried than the Portugese longbows...and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if William shows up with Knights soon. I strongly suspect that the Dutch are the runaway civ in this game.4. This is now the second time I have seen a much improved amphibious ability from the AI in [c3c] We need to assume we can be struck anywhere any time.I think your assessment of "anywhere any time" is correct. I'm not convinced we're up against an AI that is any smarter than before... just producing in such raw numbers that they HAVE all this to throw at us. These landings would be galleys dumping off onesies and twosies at a lower level IMO....

Those are my thoughts... my fingers are crossed for you Bugsy. I wish you the luck of a lottery winner and the combat prowess of St. Michael.

You'll need both for this one.

I'll concur. Abandoning Suo indeed hurts, but it is much easier to rebuild than retake.

I'm sure Willie isn't very interested in peace right now?

Pillaging will be good. If we can slow the stream of longbows, then we are that much closer to putting a real hurt on Henry. Also, I might suggest looking for an appropriate spot to attack. The two armies can probably raze core cities without too much difficulty, assuming they can heal in between times.

Anywhere, anytime indeed seems all to accurate, unfortunately.

BTW, if Willie is the runaway and he's at war, how much quicker will he go at peace?

These were galleys dropping off three sets of twos. I think Firaxis improved the AI's ability to execute amphibious warfare in order for some of the conquest scenarios to work right.

Wow. Not only did they launch an amphibious assault, but they used full galleys? Very impressive. Just last night I was playing a game where the ai used a stack consisting of 2 galleons and 2 frigates to drop off a single guerilla. :rolleyes:

I wonder if this was fixed in 1.22 even though I don't remember seeing any mention of it?

The AI's ability to launch ampibious invasions seems to be even more effected by its ability to see the entire map and automatically target weak points in the player's defenses than normal land combat. The enemy fleets in our waters have been there for some time, sailing up and down as I shifted units in and out of garrison roles. It's basically a variant of the 'puppet strings' tactic, but one that is much harder to avoid when the AI can use ships to drop units at will. The Ai player is constantly targeting different cities for invasion; presumably William just decided on Suo because its garrison had the lowest defense at the moment.

I wonder... hmm... I wonder how tough it would be to give the AIs puppet strings a little tug and get them to land in a killing field. I know some regard it as an exploit, but I think the AI knowing your military's precise disposition is likewise an exploit.

We need a city on the NE coast, surrounded by flatland... with a bunch of catapults and some fast movers in the NW cities, but within striking distance of the NE....

This may be "too little, too late"... but if those boats have been dancing off shore all this time...

:hmm:

If anybody can deal with this fast changing situation, it is Bugs. As noted abandoning a town hurts but rebuilding it will cost less than trying to keep it at this juncture.

Moving into Portugal destroying villages in order to save them, while whacking the counterattacks from the plains , is our next best move.

I just wish Willie would go back to carving his wooden shoes. BTW whatever happened to the Chinaman? I've lost track.

I just wish Willie would go back to carving his wooden shoes. BTW whatever happened to the Chinaman? I've lost track.

IIRC, DH made peace with him about halfway through his set.

I know I wasn't the one to make peace with him... I'm the one who set up the sacking of New Canton... Mao's not real happy with me...

1. 660 AD – Change Edo to the Heroic Epic and rush with the leader.
As discussed I abandon Suo and move the horse to the higher ground.

Bombard a hp off the vet spear defending at Rio then kill him. A regular spear still stands.

I pull about half our westrern force back towards the homeland. If the Dutch go for Shimonoseki, we’ll be able to take them. If they go for Fukushima, I should be able to have a force there in time. If they stay in the hills, I’ll bombard them to death. If the Portuguese land we’re in deep kimshi.

Empty Kyoto’s garrison, sending the archer north and the spear east to the coast. Lux goes up 10%.

IBT – The Dutch head straight south into the hills. There are now five Carracks off our west coast.
Edo : HE=>sword
Sapporo: settler=>spear
English start Magellan’s. We’ll know we’re behind when someone starts ToE.

2. 670 AD – There are two defenders at Rio. Wound both of them. Kill one with an AC and the other with the Undead Horseman. Raze it.

@ Hilversum (Dutch) we go one for two and lose a horse.

I figure the Dutch are headed for our iron. I retreat our forces to make a stand there.

IBT – The Portuguese drop off two LB next to Nara.
We get a timely produced AC
Nagoya: horse=>sword
Izumo: harbor=>settler

3. 680 AD – We start our pillaging campaign in Portugal.

@ Hilversum – Our archer takes out the spear defender and razes the city.

The Portuguese marines are bombarded to red and quickly dispatched.

Found Bizen on the Western Plains. Start a barracks.

We have six units on the iron. The Dutch have four attackers and two defenders in their mini-SOD on the tile north.

IBT – At the iron we go one for three, losing two swords. The Dutch split their forces and leave their MDI undefended. They drop off one MDI next to Nagasaki.
The Portuguese attack a wounded horse and retreat him.
Osaka: sword=>sword
Kagoshima: Harbor=>sword
Nara: sword=>spear

4. 690 AD – An AC dispatches the new Dutch MDI, redlines and promotes.
We kill the wounded MDI north of the iron.
We attack the remaining stack with two horses but only inflict 1 hp damage on the Swiss Merc on top.
Our marauding armies in Portugal kill a wandering spear and pillage everything they stand on.
Bombard and kill three Port. LB no loss of hp.
Empty Nagasaki to get the Dutch off the hills.

IBT – The Dutch further split their forces. A sword attacks our horse which retreats and a spear moves to cover it. The Swiss Merc moves further south towards Nagasaki.
Shimonoseki: spear=>spear

5. 700 AD – Our cats go 0 for 4 against the Swiss merc. But a sword loses one hp in killing him. Promotes. Lose a sword and an archer attacking the remaining Dutchmen.

Found Oyama next to the ruins of Hilversum. Start barracks.

IBT – One Port. LB attacks and dies.
The Aztecs found a city south of Yokohama.
Kyoto: horse=>settler
Sapporo: spear=>sword
Chinese start Magellan’s

6. 710 AD – Our cats are suddenly almost as bad as the Seattle Mariners. We get one hit in 12 at bats. This isn’t even major league pitching.

@ Badajoz(Port) we lose a horse and get two elite wins as the city is razed. We get two more slaves.

We kill the Dutch sword to the north with a horse. What a crazy RNG. The remaining spear is redlined. Let’s see how crazy the RNG is. I attack with a healthy vet spear and win.

The pillaging campaign starts to take effect as Leira is now down to pop 4.

William will now give us a straight up peace deal. I’m going to stop there and check in with the team. We can’t get any discounts on techs yet. Do we keep the war going in hopes of some pointy stick research?

If Willie doesn't have any units or any towns left in our homeland, I don't think pointy-stick will work. Can you squeeze at least 1 gold piece from him? If you can take it and run, if not, can we consider continued survival a sufficient concession?

Those look like some awesome turns there Bugsy! :goodjob: You had me worried there that this game was going to get away from us. Do we keep the war going in hopes of some pointy stick research?I thought he would give us some techs for peace at one point... I have mixed emotions... in reading through the logs, we've already continued play from the point that we departed the variant. Are we going to try to stick to the variant?

On one hand, the variant rules don't say that we must remain at war with Henry until he is wiped out, just that we must wipe him out. OTOH, unless we want to try to live peacefully with Henry, why give him a chance to re-build?

Variant aside, if we're going to kick Henry off this planet, there's no sense giving him any rest. I say we press on until he is eventually gone. The AI are a cartel. The only way to reduce the strength of that cartel is to reduce the number of its members.

Without horses and iron it is just a matter of time before Henry is history. I'm more worried about the Dutch at this point.

AFAIK we are still within the variant unless I've forgotten some extortion attempt....and we haven't signed any allies.

Scout - The peace deal will be with the Dutch, not the Portuguese. As far as I'm concerned. The war with Henry will end the day we burn his cold dead body in the flames of his destroyed final city.

William won't even give us a penny for peace. It is straight up. He does have a lot of galleys plying the waters off our coast.

Scout, I think you have misunderstood. The question applies to the Dutch, and you speak of the Portugese.

Preferably, I would like to get a gold piece at least for the peace. "Continued existence" seems like a stretch to me, but at this point, I won't argue.

Especially since I will probably be next....

Sigh...spit...hitches trousers....scratches head..."w'aal, guess we gotta kills us some more of them cigar toting Dutchmen"

Got my wires crossed on Henry and William. Apparently I don't see too well when my eyes are filled with blood...

On the variant departure, I believe we're paying for peace with Mao.

I don't have a problem with straight peace with William... since he never sacked anything. The war with Henry will be much easier if it is reduced to a one-dimensional war.

Do we have contact with Korea yet? (Edit: re-read DH's log and see that we do)

I say we finish Henry, and figure out a way to take on the Dutch... even if we have to completely scrap the variant and organize a dogpile to do it. We'll call it our own variant..."pick on the schoolyard bully".

Edit: We're still in the variant. We got a tech and a contact for that gold, as well as peace. Sorry team... I must go rinse the blood out of my eyes now. :blush:

We are not paying for peace with the Chinese. The deal tied up with the peace treaty was a tech purchase, I believe, one that we got a small but noticeble discount on.

As noted, the Chinese now have access to riders, but since we control their source of horses, we should be fairly safe and it gives us alot of trading leverage with them. Here's hoping they don't go out and conquer a source of their own.

EDIT: Wow, that was strange.

@DH - I don't know what was strange, but I re-read your turnlog and realized I'd overlooked the tech and contact that were wrapped up in that trade. I apologize for messing that up... I left the comments in that post and added corrections, rather than just take the stuff out.

Wouldn't it be just wonderful if Mao got into it with William...

We have a tough, tough row to hoe with respect to technology. If we could just get some Samurai out, I think we can do some serious damage...

Wha' for we need science....Oh, oops, can't build Samurai without, what, six tech?

:rolleyes:

After some consideration, I think I will take the peace straight up and attempt to prevent anyone from settling up in the Suo area. I think I have enough units patroling our lands to prevent anymore surprises.

Henry is gassed. In fact Henry will give us all necessary techs to get to the MA. That is tempting.

Take the deal, get Fuedalism, build horses for upgrade to Samurai, kill Henry in 20 turns.

Suggestion: hold off on the negotiatiosn with Willie until after the negotiation with Henry, you might be able to pull a single gold piece from him...

What I was refering to was my making the post simultaneosly to you editing yours, that's all.

So Bede, you think we should take the twenty turn peace deal with Henry for the MA?

If we get to the MA, can we research Feudalism fast enough to be ready in 20 to finish off Henry?

But, yeah, I'd take the deal.

I doubt that we will be able to research much of anything, given the sorry state of our economy and utter lack of any kind of infrastructure. One problem that we will have to prepare for is the War Weariness of Feudalism. Cheap temples and Ivory, combined with our small cities and liberal use of MP's should be enough, but it is still something to consider.

I think we're interested in Feudalism for the units not the government.

I think we're interested in Feudalism for the units not the government.Both, actually. We're only allowed Despotism, Feudalism, and Communism. Trading for techs needed to go for Monarchy was the big bone-headed move I pulled on my turns.

Edit: Scratch commie, add fascism.

6(con’t) – 710 AD – Henry will give us cities, techs, gold and gpt for peace. I need to check the variant rules. Can’t take cities in diplomacy.

So we get peace with Henry for Monarchy, Literature, CoL, Philosophy, 210G, and 35 GPT.

I get peace with William and he pays us 1G for the honor.

I overthrow the government. MM our cities. By hiring scientists in Anarchy we can get Feudalism in 21 turns.

7. 720 AD – Move units north to prevent any settling up there and set up a human wall by Portugal.
IBT – The Kingdom of Japan is created.

8. 730 AD – I continue to move our armies in neutral lands around Portugal. Change a bunch of builds, mostly to horses (Sam upgrades) and settlers. MM a lot. I set science to 50% (-21gpt, feudalism due in 12)

IBT – Henry completes Leo’s. Oh goody, something else to destroy.

9. 740 AD – Pretty quiet.

IBT – Liz builds Cop’s

10. 750 AD - More peace and quiet.

After Action – Several settlers should complete soon. I’d fill in all available land and then start cranking out the military units. We might want to concentrate on Swords and horses. We also may want to build the Military Academy and an FP.

Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Bede_2,_750_AD.SAV

I get peace with William and he pays us 1G for the honor.

That means we have stuck with the variant! :clap:

IBT – The Kingdom of Japan is created.

Now we have broken our variant rules .... :nono:

Ah well. We have not seen Sir Len in our other game, and I would suspect the same here, but I'll give him a chance anyhow, I suppose. :hmm:

Ut-oh - I should have reread all the rules. Next player needs to fix that and revolt back to despotism. :rolleyes:

Can buy or trade foe Feud?

Is there any way to avoid needing two more revolts before going to Feudalism?

Is there any way to avoid needing two more revolts before going to Feudalism?Only if Bugsy re-plays from Turn 6...

Well done Sir B.

With one or two turns in anarchy for a religious civ, just play on. Just don't forget to pull the switch on the revolution on the first turn, whoever's got it.

Got it. :crazyeye:

With one or two turns in anarchy for a religious civ, just play on. Just don't forget to pull the switch on the revolution on the first turn, whoever's got it.

D'oh! Completely forgot about that.

Got it.

What am I, chopped liver?

Roster update:
SirLenTaft++++++++++++<UP, and clock is ticking
SesnOfWthr-take it away at 2:00PM EDT
Bede
scout
DeceasedHorse
Sir Bugsy

I already played the turns by accident, but whatever. It's not like they were particularly exciting anyway; you will spend most of your time in anarchy, although maybe if you manage you economy better than I did you will be able to buy Feudalism before the first revolt.

Bede - would you rather just play on from DH's save, or do you want me to go from Bugsy's?

Either way, I should be able to play tonight.

@Sesn,
Play on from DH's turns. That is, if he posts a save. Otherwise....take it on from Bugsy's.

Roster update:
SesnOfWthr-take it away from whatever save is available
Bede
scout
Sir Bugsy
SirLenTaft-skipped
DeceasedHorse-played but not posted

A gentle reminder:
Recap the upcoming roster at the conslusion of the turnlog. Keeps me from getting confused.

From the looks of things, I probably won't get to this until tomorrow early afternoonish.

If DH hasn't posted a save by then, I'll just grab Bugsy's.

S'right.

Have fun!!

Oops, I must have gone with the old roster order. I've already played the turns though, so I may as well upload them. You didn't exactly miss anything; we spent most of the time in anarchy anyway.

Pre-Turn: Emperor Bugs did not long sit upon the Imperial Throne. His Samurai controlled Kyoto, the traditional capital of the Empire and its surrounding towns, but his reach did not extend to the west were the mighty defenses constructed by General Procrastination held back the Portuguese tide. The General rode to Kyoto along with his elite guardsmen, the Undead Horsemen, and slew the Emperor and his loyal followers in a single night. Proclaiming himself despot of all of Japan, he moved swiftly to demolish the unnatural order established by the Demon Emperor Bugs and his cronies.

(Revolt)

Many Clownsmen and scientists were hired to help manage the unruly populace for the two ‘turns’ that philosophers estimated would be needed to reestablish control of the Empire.

Diplomacy reveals that it is possible for us to purchase Monotheism, but it would cripple our economy which is already in shambles.

IBT: Osaka starves. Chinese start Magellan’s. The Dutch navy turns around and heads south, presumably looking for a place to land settlers and blocked by our wall of men on the beaches.

Turn 1: Shuffle units around in an attempt to block Dutch squatters, to little effect.

IBT: The Dutch fleet continues on. Huh.

Turn 2: Procrastinator the Despot is inagurated (or whatever it is a Despot does). Science to 90%, Feudalism due in 9. Not that it matters; buy Feudalism off of the English for 350 gold and 29 gpt + WM. I estimate that we will need some 78 gold or so to stave off bankruptcy once we revolt. We will need a few turns to build up our treasury. Hire a few taxmen.

IBT: Not much

Turn 3: Shuffle some troops around, ect.

IBT: Renew peace with Mao.

Turn 4: Usual. Will revolt (again) next turn.

Turn 5: I seem to have totally messed up my anarchy calcs, as we are still running +20 gpt. Oops.

IBT: The Chinese finish Bach’s. The English cascade to Magellan’s and complete it in London.

Turn 6: Found the cities of Izumi and Omi.

Turn 7: We become a Feudalist state. The Shoguns reign supreme now. Upgrade our last remaining veteran swordsmen to a MDI.

IBT: The Chinese start Shake’s, and the Dutch conquer Coyotepec, formerly belonging to the Aztecs.

Turn 8: Found Echigo on the plains west of Bede’s Bane.

Turn 9: Found Kozuke north of Kyoto, filling in our cultural borders completely. Operation: Silent Spring commences under the command of General Procrastination IV as Portuguese slaves labor to bring irrigation across the desert around Bizen, which I have decided shall be called ‘Deceased Valley’,
and down to Echigo and any future settlements established west of the Bede’s Bane range.

Turn 10: Nothing much. Diplomacy check reveals that we can still afford another tech purchase while paying off the one we made with China. Monotheism gets us on step closer to Samurai, and Engineering gets us trebs.

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/BEDE860AD.SAV )

There is light at the bottom of the well, or is that an oncoming train in the tunnel?

Roster update:
SesnOfWthr-take it away
Bede
scout
Sir Bugsy
SirLenTaft-skipped
DeceasedHorse-played and posted


A gentle reminder:
Recap the upcoming roster at the conslusion of the turnlog. Keeps me from getting confused.

Sams are our goal as soon as possible.

Turns about half done. Computer has crashed twice, costing me a rather large log for only five turns. Aztecs demanded and got rebuffed, they declared. No chivalry deal yet, but I think by the end of my turns...

I'll finish these turns up tomorrow.

Need a bit of input here guys.

Our peace treaty is up with Henry, and he's looking to renew. I have so far been unable to procure Chivalry from any source. Of course, if I decline the offer, it is a declaration of war. Do we have any issues with that?

So we would be at war with Monte and Henry?

What's the risk to our backline?

I'm assuming we have enough muscle at the front to control Henry.

Actually I have yet to see a single attacker from Monty. I have moved a couple pikes and other units to our south, where they would be better positioned for defense.

We still have a reserve guard in our core too.

I'm not worried about those two as much as someone else getting dragged (Willie) in before I can get sams.

We have an equal risk to our rear. Both civs can drop units off. I say tell Henry to stuff it and let's :hammer: some more :D

Concur. It's the hammer for Henry.

900 ad (5) – Amuse myself by pillaging Henry’s roads that aren’t actually within his borders.

910 ad (6) – Oyama Treb -> worker. Sado is built on the edge of the tundra.

IT – Henry comes wanting to renew our peace treaty. No dice, your days are now officially numbered!!

920 ad (7) – Our “low” WW immediately kicks in and I have to scroll ahead to catch about 7 cities. Nagoya settler -> pike. Yokohama pike -> harbor. Omi worker -> harbor. Suddenly Henry’s defending spears are muskets. Mao establishes an embassy with us. Tokyo is founded to claim the dyes. I pull back our wall of troops.

930 ad (8) – Kill a defending musket and spear in Oporto. Hakodate is founded as a fishing village in the north.

940 ad (9) – Minor skirmishing and pillaging.

IT – England asks to sell us her TM. I say I’m not interested, so she signs an MA against us.

Chinese start Newton’s.

950 ad (10) – I believe I have cut Leiria and some other cities off from the rest of the empire. Kill a few longbows near Sato. Six carracks appear in our northern waters. Fast movers deployed (near Osaka now).

Our deal with England now canceled, we can afford Chivalry. I’ll leave the deal for the next player, but I would think the Dutch would be a good candidate, if only to keep them off our backs. There is a settler in the stack near Leiria, he was intended for the unroaded plain that would instantly give us a spare ivory to trade. If we get chivalry, we should be able to swing a three fer, picking up Theology from Spain, and The Republic from Korea. There is a longbow near Sato that I didn’t attack, as the only unit I had left was a 2/6 AC. Though he would probably win, he would then be exposed, as I know there is at least one longbow just within the Portugese borders. I still have not seen any Aztec units, and they still won’t even talk.

Got it.

So now we are at war with Liz, Monte and Henry. Why not Wang?

So, go buy Chivalry from Will. (Last time I bought something from him for gpt two turns later he made an extortion demand). Then let slip the Samurai, :cool:

Let's just keep some fast movers available in the rear.

this is a great succession game... I have been chewing my nails to see what will happen next... you guys rock :)

good luck


to sesn - GO NINERS

:wavey: miller
Welcome to CfC


0-950
Watch the Portugese Carracks sail around the north of the island.

1-960
Whack Portugese longbows and spears in the plains.
Buy Chivalry from the Dutch for 450g and 30gpt. I didn't find a three-fer as everybody was up everything
Destroy Leiria.

Take 20g off Monte in a peace deal.

Henry will give 2g to leave him alone. Not enough my boy. How about Theology and Invention? He sniffs.

And every town in the core riots....

2-970
Found Suo in the plains.

Turn lux up to 50% and hire a bunch of taxmen to pay for it. War weariness now exceeds 60% throughout the empire. Henry will give his maps and 8g for peace. He has one unconnected tundra town left in "our" territory. Take it in two turns and the war is over.

Henry's six carracks drop off three longbows :eek:

A couple of rioting cities starve.

2-980
The Council of Regents has ignored the spiritual needs of the citizens, understandable given the constant state of war. But since war will be with us always it is imperative we allow our people a spiritual life to make the constant battles bearable. Every town now building military is ordered to the construction of houses of worship.

And Henry's longbows are easy prey for our Cavalry.

Between starvation and clowns and installment payments our income is now -22gpt.

3-990
Castel Branco is now ours, no losses.

War weariness has hit 75% in the biggest towns. Henry will give us his Territory Map, 31g and 15gpt for peace. I take it.

The end of the war with Henry brings an end to the war weariness, everbody goes back to work. There is a single scientist at Nagoya.

Switch Izumo to a settler to claim some more ground in the west.

1000-1020
Improving terrain and walking settlers.

Found Echizen west of Yokohama

Dyes hook up and with the added luxury and the temples lux goes to zero

1030
Exploring horseman finds an English town in the western mountains. The two armies head out to deal with it as well a Samurai.

Chinese start Newton's

1040
Setting up to take out Richmond,

Spain and China sign an alliance against England

1050

There are two armies, elite AC's and miscellaneous troops in the mountains above Richmond. Hit the musket with an army, then go leader fishing with the elite cavs. It would be nice to get a leader so we can put the Forbidden Palace at Echigo.

The core needs a whole lot of terrain improvement, jungles chopped and hills mined, grasslands irrigated. Let's hope these bums have learned their lessons and will leave us alone long enough to get our realm on course.

Ignore the attachment this is the save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Bede02_1050AD.SAV)

Nice turns there, Brother Bede! :goodjob: I wondered if some of my tendency to understate has rubbed off on you when I got to this part of the log:

"Destroy Leiria"

@miller: Welcome to civfanatics! :thumbsup:

I need to find that war weariness article to see how long we have to wait before hammering Henry again. Does he have any lux that will benefit us?

Oh - do we have anything that resembles a navy yet?

I thought we couldn't keep any cities. :hmm:

I thought we couldn't keep any cities. :hmm:Hmmm... that's what I thought too... Bede, did you keep Castel Branco, or sack it?

Roster update:
SesnOfWthr
Bede - Just :hammer: on Henry
scout - Up
Bugsy - On deck
SirLenTaft
DeceasedHorse

Not really sure about the keeping cities or not.
EDIT: No capturing foreign cities or demanding them in diplomacy.
Abandon the town.

I am POSITIVE that in the save I handed off, Spain had Theology but not chivalry, and both Spain and Korea had Republic.

We have nothing even slightly resembling a navy.

IIRC, the WW dies off after twenty turns of peace.

Did I see Bede say he built a bunch of temples? :eek:

Welcome to CFC, Miller. Though my love for the Niners runs deep and true, I am dreading the next couple years. Seems pretty clear that they are in full-on rebuilding mode. :sad:

We need to get us some happy buildings before the next war. Temples, markets, and cathedrals would help immensely.

The niner have had rebuilding years for a while now. I guess I'm not the one to poke fun, both of 'our' teams moved back (SoCal).

Stupid Raiders. Stupid Rams, sucked the whole time they were here then they go when the stinking superbowl. At least we have the Angels, who don't suck for the first time ever.

I thought we couldn't keep any cities. :hmm:

Castel Branco is a pile of rubble in the tundra forests.

On the three-fer waiting the turn may have cost us, sorry.

Quoth Sesn:
"Did I see Bede say he built a bunch of temples?"

You did indeed. Desperate times, desperate measures and markets would have taken way too long.

That's it. I knew something was wrong when I met Monty for the first time and he was polite. That much is in the log.

Now Bede is building ...temples??!!??! :crazyeye:

This game is officially "off the wire".
:eek: :wow: :dubious:

FWIW, I should have posted screenshots of the the turn before and the turn after peace with Henry. I finished temples only in the larger cities and the cities on the borders with Willie, so my "religious mania" was but temporary.

Go get something good from Liz for wrecking Richmond. BTW she has had a couple of ships zipping in and out of the fog to our east.

Alrighty then, I shall probably play late tonight, and see if I can pinch Queen Lizzy the pasty-faced for something useful...

I'm trying to remember something here... I could be wrong, but I do not think I have played a full turnset without fighting Henry...IIRC, the first war was declared at the end of an early turnset of mine...

...I will clearly have to play this set differently. This is a different game now, and I won't know how to play it if I can't fight the Portugese. :p

I think being in a government like Feudalism, almost requires a bunch of happy buildings. We could always go back to despotism when it comes time for war. :D

Ugh, personally I've had enough of anarchy for awhile.

Pre-Flight Check 1050 AD

Let's see... Bede got peace on his third turn, so another 13-14 turns of peace with Henry are in order. I'll try not to get us into any more wars.

...at war with England... I love that little rockpile that used to be Leiria...

City check
Hmmm... a granary in Nara?
Swap Izumi to court and MM for some shields...
Hire a scientist in Kyoto to make Gunpowder cheaper...

Diplo check... hmmm... we have some trade routes open... and some Ivory to peddle.
Aztec map and 20g doesn't sound good.
Dutch territory map...weak offer.
Chinese Incense +20g. Done Mao. You might make it off our list yet.

Let's see if I can shake another apple out of this tree.
Chivalry+Literature+50g+8gpt to Izzy for Spanish knowledge of Theology.
Chivalry+Theology for Korean knowledge of Invention+3g

Mao is up Printing Press, Education, Gunpowder, Republic
Henry, William, Monty have the same. Izzy is only up Republic.

IBT - English drop of a CAVALRY next to
Oyama Temple>Market
Bizen Worker>Worker
Our cave gets a set of steps.

Dutch are building Newton's.(!)

Turn 1 (1060) One A/C from Sado falls to the English Cav, the second one gets him. Worker moves.

IBT - A Dutch Galleon drops off a 4/2 MDI on a mountain next to Echizen.
Kyoto Samurai>Library
Edo Temple>Court
Nagasaki Temple>Court
Chinese complete Globe Theater for Wm. Shakespeare.
Dutch start Newton's

Turn 2 (1070)
A/C that whacked the English Cav goes to Echizen, along with Undead Horseman* from Tokyo.

IBT - Dutch MDI moves off.
Matsuyama Temple>Worker

Turn 3 (1080) some worker moves...position the last elite outside Richmond.

IBT - Dutch Frigate/Galleon pair shuffles off the SE coast, respecting our border.
China and England sign peace.

Turn 4 (1090)
At Richmond
Elite AC whacks a musket
Elite AC falls to musket
Elite horse kills 2/4 musket
No leaders. :cry: We need a Forbidden Palace in the worst way...

IBT - some Dutch troops advance NW out of the mountains from Coyotepec a Sword/MDI pair...
Izumo Temple>Worker

Turn 5 (1100)
Dial up Lizzy and get her Territory Map for a peace treaty.
Move some troops around so that I'm not caught too badly off guard by the Dutch. Upgrade a horse to a Samurai in Nagoya.

IBT - Dutch advance troops on Yokohama.

Turn 6 (1110)
Dial up Henry, and ask him what he wants for the Dutch territory map: 19g+8gpt+WM. I take the WM off the table, and do the deal.
Dial him up again and tell him to move his troops or declare. Big surprise here.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Bede2_1150_otherdam_dutch.jpg

Take a couple of hit points off an MDI with a Samurai, uselessly attack an MDI with an A/C, redlining the A/C, fortify a Samurai in Yokahama.

Hmmm... dial up Monty. WM+Education for Horses+10gpt. Monty goes from Furious to Annoyed, and Scout goes from K.I.T.D. to the proud owner of a new world map.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Bede2_1150_MAP.jpg

Move some units around...move a spear from Satsuma to Yokohama.

IBT - Dutch Sword redlines our forted Samurai, Dutch MDI redlines killing a spear. Wounded Dutch MDI retreats. Dutch advance a Frigate, Galleon, and a Galley towards Toyama.
Yokohama Harbor>Court
Echizen worker>Court
Tokyo Harbor>Court
Palace Expansion

Turn 7 (1120) Shuffle units southward in our core, start recalling the armies.
Trade Korea Education for Republic+20g

IBT - Henry wants to trade World maps.
Nara Granary>Worker
Nayoya Pike>Samurai
Sapporo Samurai>Samurai
English Building Newton's

Turn 8 (1130)
Shuffle some troops in our core, empty the Garrison at Oyama to tempt the Dutch into a trap; one army is headed back to the core, another is guarding a crew of workers who are roading their way to the Dutch town of Coyotepec.

I don't know why Izzy is Furious with us...but I gift her Education (she's broke). There's our first UN vote. She's only Annoyed with us now.

IBT - the Dutch ships must be empty, they shuffled right next to Oyama and didn't unload anything. More Dutch ships appear in the north (3 Frigates and a Galleon).
Suo Temple>Rax (next player can veto)
Izumo worker>Samurai
Shimonoseki Harbor>Court

Turn 9 (1140)
Note that Shimoneski is wasting all 4 shields from the mined iron, tile swap with Nagasaki to get Nagasaki court in 17 not 33.
Sword army clips a Dutch MDI outside Yokohama, Undead Horseman gets an upgrade.
Shuffle some troops around...

IBT - Dutch ships shuffle, but don't drop anything off.
Kyoto Library>Samurai
Nara Worker>Samurai

Turn 10 (1150)
I saw a Dutch Galleon headed west from Coyotepec... take some samurai and get them back on the road, take some units out of Yokohama and head west...move some units (I hope I positioned them okay) and take a couple of screenies for the next better player...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Bede2_1150_NE.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Bede2_1150_SW.jpg

After action review:

The Good: Got us a couple of techs. Built a Library in Kyoto on the off-chance that we'll ever build a university. Thanks to that and Bede's temples, our culture is now wider than a skid-mark on the histograph.

The Bad: We're at war with the Dutch (again).

The Ugly: We can't cash-rush anything, and we need units so badly that it's going to be tough to build any infrastructure... We need a FP in the worst way.

> > The Save < < (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Bede02_1150AD.SAV)

I've got the save.

Let's see if I have scout's shopping list correct:
1. FP
2. Raze two Dutch cities

I think I need to start building a Navy also. We might not be able to use it for several hundred years, but with all our cash, upgrading is much easier than building from scratch.

Might want to try grabbing that Dutch island to our east, depending on how close it is.

Pre-flight – 1150 AD – We’re going to need a settler or two to fill in the empty spot that those razed Dutch cities are going to make. :devil2: I switch Kyoto from a Sam to a settler.

It appears that the Dutch have mostly beat up on the Koreans. They only have one English town. So while the Dutch may be the strongest nation at the moment, they are not invulnerable. This war will hurt them.

Scout has our cities nicely MM’ed. I don’t change a thing.

While we’re hurting on the science side of things, we’re not critical yet.

IBT – Watch the Dutch sail around for a bit.
Kagoshima: market=>galley
Bizen: worker=>treb

1. 1160 AD – I think we can assume that William is in the IA. The frigates indicate he has magnetism, and the Newton’s build means he has ToG.

Not a lot we can do until we have a navy. I mostly keep everyone where they are, and move on the Dutch cities.

I change Izumo to a galley. I think if we can land a force of four Sams next to Leerdam, we can raze it.

IBT – English start Smith’s.

2. 1170 AD - @ Coyotepec – Our sword Army takes out the Swiss Merc, our elite AC takes out the spear and we raze the city.

Liz is in her IA duds. Won’t sell us anything. Actually no one will sell us anything at the moment.

IBT – Aztecs and England sign a peace treaty.
Kyoto settler=>settler
Matsuyama: worker=>galley

3. 1180 AD – Spend 120G upgrading a horse. That’s expensive. Move towards the next Dutch town.
4. 1190 AD - @ Maastricht – Our sword army loses 10 hp attacking the Swiss Merc (-2hp) and finally gives up. We attack with our elite AC and….

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Bede2_1190_AD_Leader.jpg

So where do you want the FP? I figure somewhere over by Portugal. It is going to take a few turns to get the leader back to civilization.

@ DH - as soon as we have a navy we'll go for the offshore island.

How about the city near where Leiria used to be? Should be a productive location.

4. 1190 (Con’t) – A few more worker moves.

IBT – The Dutch fleet enters the channel between Leerdam and Japan. Henry want the peace treaty to continue. Since I have my hands full, I’ll let you live… for now.

5. 1200 AD - @ Maastricht – Our Sam is redlined killing the spear defending and we raze the city. One slave is collected. Still trying to get our leader back to civilization.

Hire a tax man in Echigo.

IBT – The Dutch keepd sailing around our lands. I think they’re looking for a weakly defended area.
Kyoto: settler=>settler (set up 4-turn settler factory again)
Kagoshima: galley=>galley (we’re going to get a navy soon)
Sado: temple=>FP (I’ll rush it as soon as I get the leader there.)

6. 1210 AD – I keep rotating the bulk of our troops around with the Dutch fleet. There is still a lot of troops throughout the land, but they have five transports in their fleet and based on past performance they probably have at least eight land-based units getting sea sick out there.

IBT – A Dutch knight comes out of Portugal. The Dutch fleet is now rounding Maastricht point. It appears they think our West side is soft. Well it is now.
Spain declares on China.

Netherlands and China sign a MA against Spain.
Aztecs and China sign a MPP (someone has nationalism)

7. 1220 AD – The knight is outside New Kyoto. I move a horse into the city so we at least have two defenders.
The leader makes it to Sado, but is out of movement.
Upgrade another horse. I normally wouldn’t spend our money like that if this wasn’t such a militarily intense game.

IBT – Portugal and the Netherlands sign a trade embargo against us. Henry you dog.
At New Kyoto, our pike loses to the Dutch knight, then a Dutch cavalry comes out of nowhere and kills our defending horse. :eek:

William declares war on the English. This guy like a fight. The Dutch have planted a city SW of New Kyoto.
Sapporo: Sam=>Sam
Izumi: court=>galley
Hakodate: harbor=>barracks

8. 1230 AD – Rush the FP in Sado.

When I go to recapture our city, it triggers an MPP and we are now at war with Portugal. I don’t remember seeing that message. :hmm: Good thing I’ve been rotating those units around, we should have enough units to get to a Portuguese front.

Our AC retakes the city.

I run a sam over to take out the wounded knight, and this is what I see:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Bede_2_western_Front.jpg

To be continued….

:confused:

I'm not sure what it is that you're showing us there?

The second knight lying in wait?

The Aztec settler (probably) pair?

First, I thought it would be a good idea to refresh everyone's mind on the state of the western front.

Second, I thought it might be nice to show everyone how William is deploying his troops. Yes, that is a settler pair. I imagine the bulk of William's fleet is heading towards Tilburg or going to drop off units further north up the coast. As a result I've got a zone defense in play.