Introduction: We play as the Agricultural and Commercial Iroquois. For generations we have roamed the plains of our homeland, but the white man comes to take them from us. Across the sea, great empires send great hordes of braves in search of plunder and land. To the south, the old empire of the Maya has been displaced but the bloodthirsty Aztecs, who seek to enslave and sacrifice all that they can in their mad quest to please their gods. The tribes of the north must band together if any are to be saved.

Start:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Irostart.JPG

We have called a great council in Salamanca. The fate of our people and perhaps all peoples must be decided.

Notes:
-We begin with four regular mounted warriors, a settler, and a worker along with our size 1 capital.
-Tech-wise, we have to usual Native American techs for the scenerio, along with Horse-Back Riding which enables us to build more Mounted Warriors.
-Our UU is quite powerful, but unlike the other american tribes DOES NOT enslave! This means the traditional route to victory, OCC utilizing a mass-sacrifice of captured slaves is somewhat impractical, and doesn't really fit with the over all theme.

Right now, I'd like to get some discussion going on the possible route to victory, difficulty level, ect.

Tenetive Roster (based on sign-ups before CaesarAugustus vanished off the face of the earth):
DeceasedHorse
RomeotheMonk
6thgentexan
Open
Open

here is the link with original thoughts on the game:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=1944014

Go down to post #329 for the post from CaesarAugustus.

I like his original idea of going for Domination set in the 30-35% range and be nice to the English but kick everyone else back into the Atlantic.

Checking in. This is a different mod than the original, I am not sure if Domination is enabled. If domination is not enabled, we may need to use our mounted warriors to kill toughies, then use Q-bows to enslave for us. Can we get Q-bows?
Another question, which version is this? I need to know where to install the mod.

If you use my mod: I didn't change anything for the Victory conditions, thus you also can get SGLs. However, changing Domination levels is easily done - what are the default levels here?
@romeo: The version of the editor/ the scenario doesn't matter.

And, since I currently have a little less work then expected, I sign up here; I just need a laid-back SG, strict 24/48 is impossible. And 1.22 is needed :rolleyes:

IMHO, plain simple Domination without further restrictions sounds good. Returning treasures, why not? With our traits, and the lowered corruption in this Scenario, we should be able to grow really strong, even with the late FP.
I've played one game where the AI Iros where clearly the runner-up in power and VPs, they even reached Tech parity with the Euro Civs...


Usually, I'd suggest DG, but in this Conquest, even Deity should work.

Edit:
Just found the correct original post
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=68410&page=17&pp=20

I'd suggest 40% Dom threshold. That requires a little bit more than N America, maybe we can really set sail... :)
I do not want to edit any of the Victory settings except enabling Domination - except maybe reducing Conquest VPs by 50%?
Doubling treasures means Portugal will win without any chance to interfere, and unit kill doesn't matter.

I can update the Mod, and I'll have a close look if we can/cannot build all units.

Sounds good all around. I would suggest DG for level, (Euro's will tech quickly enough) and Domination with 35%. I would leave all other Victory conditions and VP alone. That way we could still win by VP, just by conquering lots of stuff. I also like to steal treasures when I played as Mesoamerican civs.

The proposal for Domination victory passes.


ROSTER
DeceasedHorse
RomeotheMonk
6thGenTexan
Doc Tsiolkoviski

It's a relatively short scenerio, so I'll leave it at four players for now.

Modifications:
Domination Victory set to 40%/40%
Quetzal Bowman-Iroquois can now build them. Defensive Bombard of 1
Longbow-Defensive Bombard of 1
Victory points of city capture set to 50xCity Size (Half Standard)
Domination and Conquest Victory types enabled.

Go ahead and make sure I did everything right.

DH: Is this a mod of my mod, or done from scratch?

Strategy talk:
I had a peek at the map in the editor, and I don't really like what I see...

- There's not a single Lux in all of N America (but Dyes around Chichen Itza, and Wines way S in Chile)
- There's not a single (land) food bonus in all of Eastern US/ Canada
- No Horses near Salamanca

I'd suggest the following strategy:
Expand like mad into the central plains, there are some really good city spots (moving the Palace?). Just secure the Iron/ Saltpeter in the Apalaches.
Leave the Europeans alone on the coast for a long time.
Once we have a better gov, overrun the Aztecs and Maya. Our UU is perfectly made for this - fast, cheap, and the ones left can be upgraded to the best attacker in this scenario.
Then, turn on the Europeans.

I agree with the General Strategy. I would like to put one city by virginia, but not on the coast. This will take away the best treasure spot in NA, and cannot be hit by Euro's. We will need to have settlers coming out of every size 3 or 4 city. Workers are going to be in short supply, but we should be able to tech rather quickly as long as we barb farm for extra gold.

RE: Doc-
I do not know what your mod entailed; I just opened the .biq Romeo PM'd me and fiddled with the settings.

All right, I'll play the first ten; no need to take more since this is a relatively short scenerio. Difficulty will be demigod; I've never actually successfully played at anything higher.

ROSTER:
DeceasedHorse
Romeothemonk
6thgen
DocT

Before you start. Does our starting city get to be size 3 to start? If not, please mod it so we have a prayer. All the other Meso civs have a size 3 capitol. The size 3 would seriously save our bacon early by allowing an extra settler, and is not an exploit in my opinion as the others have it.
I concur to sending our first settler west towards modern St. Louis.

CHANGES: Salamanca changed to size three, ball court added, starting culture set to 50 (like the rest of the mesoamerican capital cities).

Note: Yes, I’m being horribly stereotypical regarding native American culture, mixing up stuff from plains Indian tribes with those who inhabited the northeast. I’m just joking around, although I don’t think too many people here are that thin-skinned.

In the beginning of the year the white man called 1492, a new leader arose to lead our people after the Great Conclave held at Salamanca. His name was Chief Dead Horse, and he spoke of a new way for the Iroquois people:

“My people, I come to you having seen a vision of the future, a future that cannot be escaped. The white man comes with firewater, cannons, and travels in great ships. His weapons, they are not magic. They are no more magical then a bow, or a knife. It is not his weapons that will defeat us in the end it is his strategy. He will divide us, and conquer us. He brings with him deadly plagues that will decimate us; diseases that even the most skilled shaman cannot ward off. We must learn the secrets of the white man to survive the storm that is coming. We must have one leader, one master!”

Chief Dead Horse proclaimed himself to be the chief of all the Iroquois. Those who resisted fell before his braves, and a new order was established. His first task was to decide how to go about divining the secrets of the white devils. The shamans suggested that perhaps they could look into the Aztec and Mayan rituals of sacrifice and murder, to better appease the gods so they might smite the invaders. The Chief refused. “We are not crazy murderers. Besides, the gods help those who help themselves. Begin research on a system of writing.” One of the shamans though about asking how the chieftain knew what this ‘alphabet’ was, but decided that he did not want to get scalped and thought better of it.

Preturn: Salamanca starts with no improved tiles; the fastest I can get it to grow is seven turns, and that is with only 2 spt. Good think we are agricultural, or this would be even worse. Since we do not have access to an enslavement unit at this point, I decide to lead off with a worker, do in three. Our mounted warriors should be sufficient military for now. I change my mind on the alphabet research; we should be able to get it off the Europeans, and we will want to tech up to Quetzal Bowmen anyway, which means researching the non-tradable meso-american techs on our own. Start on Enslavement, due in 80 (We, uh, don’t have any income ). Two mounted warriors and the settler head west, one MW heads north and another south to hunt for some barb huts.

IBT: Barb archers show up to the north.

Turn 1: Attack barb camp up in Maine, killing one archer.

Turn 2: Our braves continue to ride across the plains. Northern MW kills another barb archer and disperses the camp, netting us 25g.

Turn 3: Salamanca builds worker, starts on settler. Our braves spot many white-cloaked warriors on their journey west.

Turn 4: Many white-cloaks are defeated and scalped.

Turn 5: And so it was in the year 1495 that the White Man arrived in our lands. The Spaniards found a city under the fog, approximately where modern-day Virginia is spotted. Some braves spot a great ship with orange sails as well. We smoke the peace pipe with the very…white Queen of the English peoples. She will not sell us knowledge of the alphabet or of masonry, but we can buy her map of the world for a copy of our own (that we somehow made without a written language, let alone map-making…) and 16 lumps of gold (no coins or anything, we don’t have currency yet). Perhaps we can get on this “Map-trading bandwagon”, although we are not sure what a wagon is, exactly. Somehow, we also have contact with all the other European civs; maybe the Spanish sold contacts around? Henry will give us knowledge of the Alphabet in exchange for our map and all of our gold; we will go bankrupt if we do this however. Instead, we sell our map to him for his map and 34 lumps of gold. Francis of the French gives us his map and 30 gold for our map. William the Orange gives us knowledge of the Alphabet in exchange for our map and 115 gold. Isabelle of the Spaniards gives us 20 gold and her map in exchange for our own. Not too bad; not the craziest set of map trades I’ve seen, but it’ll do for now. If we can make contact with the bloodthirsty freaks to the south first, we might be able to swing masonry or, hopefully, writing. Defeat three camps of white-cloaks, and seize 75 lumps of gold.

IBT: The white-cloaks finally grow enough of a spine to attack our braves. Our warrior in the north skillfully defeats their archers, promoting to elite. One of riders down in what I would guess to be Carolina or perhaps Georgia is badly wounded and forced to retreat.

Turn 6: Our braves discover the land of horses and wheat-this shall be our first new teepee base. Another camp of white-cloaks is defeated. The wounded band of riders retreats deeper south, spotting the Gulf of Not-Mexico. 155 Gold and our map get us Masonry from Henry the Fat. Generate 37 lumps of gold selling our maps that we magically make despite not knowing what a map is yet. Ah well.

Turn 7: Our warriors have almost reached the conflux of three great rivers. Generate 40 lumps of gold selling maps.

IBT: Elizabeth establishes an embassy in our capital.

Turn 8: We contact Monteczuma of the bloodthirsty Aztecs. Pick up 170 odd gold selling contact around. Can’t swing a tech deal. Sell alphabet to the Aztecs for 85 gold (market value). This gives me enough gold to swing a deal for either Currency or writing. Currency is of little immediate value; writing will let us get Map Making eventually so I choose it over currency. Buy it from the English for 245 gold and our map, and then recoup about 50 gold selling our maps around.

IBT: The British found Jamestown to the north of Salamanca, next to some beavers. Maybe we will culture flip them or something.

Turn 9: Found Niagara Falls at the center of mighty not-Mississippi-yet river. Starts on Granary (veto able! its at an awkward point since it is making 3spt and 5pt; it has access to a plains cow, a grassland wheat, some forests, and a bonus grass. Horses will be ours after a border expansion. Disperse a barb camp, more gold. We barely break even on map sales this turn; the White man has been busy.

Turn 10: MM Salamanca to finish its settler and grow in three turns. Hawk maps around.

Da Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RB14J_1500.SAV)

Good call on giving our Capital size 3; I played a couple of turns into the scenario without, and it was really painful. Especially since the Euros contacted the Mesos before me...
There's another good Grassland spot for a city between our 2 towns. And we need some Workers ASAP, to chop down Forrests.

I agree on a minimal research run, but Enslavement??? We'd need the Ball Courrts, without Luxuries...
And I'm not to iffy with mixing NA /Meso natives, but we shouldn't try to win this by culture; that is a bit too much IMHO.

What version are we playing this under?

I agree on stopping the current research. I agree with Doc. Q-bows are worse than our MW.I think we should Euro Tech and then steal if we absolutely want any native techs. Got it.
Should play later tonight, but have a doctors appointment so I am not sure how I will be feeling.

Actually Enslavement is required to research Ball Courts, which is why I picked it over ritual sacrifice.

What is the consensus regarding the mesoamerican wonders? The ToE clone might be pretty good.

EDIT: Version 1.22
I should have asked about this, but as far as I know (since I'm in SG's with everyone here anyway) we are all using this version anyway.

I am still of the opinion that our commercial/ag start will help us get the cash to steal.
I will change tech unless I hear otherwise from Tex. (last one to say anything).
Since I am in the Dakota's where there are still real tribes and Lakota MW's I will probably refer to them/us as Lakota.

No objections against Meso Wonders, but I think we cannot afford wonders at all. And I vote for stealing into the Meso tree; 80 turns sounds too long.Actually Enslavement is required to research Ball Courts, which is why I picked it over ritual sacrifice.


Good catch, missed that.

After much looking and Debate, I left the research alone, as switching it really doesn't do anything for us. Marketplace research is going to be our goal until we can pointy stick later.
IHT: Trade writing to Aztecs for Maya contact and 42 gold.
Trade Maya Abet for 84 gold. Trade Maya contact and 200 gold to England for currency and WM. I then sold Maya contact and WM to everyone. I traded WM to everyone every turn and netted around 25 gpt.
IBT: nada
Turn 1: promote a brave lakota warrior in the paha sapa area (black hills)
IBT: nada
Turn 2: Move
IBT: barb kills a MW in Kentucky area. :mad:
Turn 3: Sal - settler to spear.
IBT: nada
Turn 4: clear barb camp
IBT: barb gives us our first elite
Turn 5: move
Turn 6: move
Turn 7: Trade currency to Maya for contact Inca and 5 gold. Trade Inca Abet for 110 gold. Get worker from INca for writing. Get Map making from England for WM, 390 gold and contact Inca. Trade INca contact for lotsa gold.
IBT: France builds sistenes.
Turn 8: sal spear to settler. Found Grand River around illinois.
Turn 9: Trade Wm and 290 gold to England for COL.
IBT: Magellans starts
Turn 10: Kill barbs and trade maps. Building a road to our future horses.

ROSTER:
DH
Romeo-Just Played
6th Gen-UP
DocT-In the hole

I've got it, but I will not be able to play until late on Sunday.
@ Doc, If you have time before then, go ahead.6gntxn

6gntxn

No. :) (too short, bla bla)

While we are still exploring our west coast, our map sales and barb hunting should by us Construction. After that we are on our own with research. I was able to gather enough cash to buy Storetelling for 277g from England in 1517.

On Map trading, Incas are working hard on South America while England is sailing through the South Atlantic. I'd start with them and sell to anyone who had enough gold. That mease the Maya and Aztec have not gotten our map.

Founded Allegheny in 1516 near modern day Cleveland. Somehow I forgot we cannot settle on forests. It is a little tight but there is room for another city south on the Ohio river until the spanish colony gets some culture.

Happiness is an issue. I was keeping the lux rate at 0 to get more $ for techs to get us in the next age. After the granary/initial settler from Grand River, both here and Niagra Falls need temples.

After the next settler out of Salamanca, I would suggest a couple of workers then start it on military. It has our only barrack. I diverted the workers to improve a couple of tiles at GR and NF on the way to the horses.

The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RB14J_1520.SAV)

DOC is up.

Got it, ....

Short update (sorry, I forgot the save at home today, and I have only net access at work :blush: )

Nothing of interest happened... :yawn:

1520AD

Preturn – Nothing to do.

Turn 1: 1521AD
Map hawking. Get a Worker from Aztecs for Storytelling. Trade Storytelling to the other natives for small change and WM.

Turn 2: 1522AD
Zzzz…Lux to 10% for Niagara Falls
IBT:
Salamanca (Settler) -> Spear

Turn 3: 1523AD
Hire Scientist in Allegheny, Sci to 0%.
IBT:
Interesting…Aztecs are at war with Spain.

Turn 4: 1524AD
We could finally buy Construction…for absolutely everything we have.
IBT: Allegheny (Spear) -> Barracks
York completes Magellan’s

Turn 5: 1525AD
Buy Construction from England for WM, 345gp and 6gpt.

Turn 6: 1526AD
Zzz…
IBT: Salamanca (Spear) -> Spear, Niagara Falls (Settler) -> Temple

Turn 7: 1527AD
Usual Map hawking, usual ~20gp. Frag Barb Camp.

Turn 8: 1528AD
Cattaraugus founded on the Iron Hill W of the Lakes.

Turn 9: 1529AD
Zzzz

Turn 10: 1530AD
Zzzzz

The map hawking nets around 20gp every turn. You have to play a bit with the Lux slider and Specialists, but nothing too tricky. I wouldn’t build any more Settlers from our Capital, we need the income from our only Market. Couple more Spears, and once Horses are online, nothing but MWs.

Dotmap:
The Slave clears a good spot, however, it’s a bit risky, we need to get a unit down there to block the Grassland next to it. Decided for that because Spain and Aztecs are at War, thus don’t expand as fast as usual. Other Dots: The Settler should found where he stands. The dot S between the Cow and the Wheat is not on a river, but a prime spot otherwise.

Techs: I would be all means try to get to Theology, revolt, and trigger our GA with the Aztecs as soon as we’re out of Despotism.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Iro.jpg

The Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Iro1.zip)

Sorry for the delay; I just found a job finally and have been a little busy. Furhtermore, I will be out of town next week.


Preturn: No changes.

Turn 1: Salamanaca builds Spear, starts another. Found Oil Springs where the settler was left standing, starts on Temple. Map sales generate only a small bit of gold now that most of the New World has been revealed.

Turn 2: NM

Turn 3: Our mounted warrior reaches the roof of the world.

IBT: England and portugal sign an MA vs. the Aztecs.

Turn 4-5: Nothing much

IBT: France extorts 37 gold and our TM. I cave; we still do not have horses on-line.

Turn 7: Lux tax to 20%. I just noticed that we have yet to connect our furs!

IBT: Portuguese extort 38 gold and our map. Again, I feel that I have to cave.

Turn 8: Disperse a barb camp on the western slopes of the Rockies.

IBT: Spain jumps on the bandwagon and demands 38 gold and our WM. They always seem to do this when we get over 400 gold. Odd.

Turn 10: Finally get a settler build, out of Grand River.

NOTES: Still can’t get our hands on any of the second age techs. Horses will come on line once Niagra Falls borders expand next turn. Niagra Falls will also finish a settler next turn, although the next player may want to switch to a barracks. I would let it finish the settler, as we will have difficulty controlling a larger city. We really need more workers; the French have 5 (!) for sale right now. Next player’s call, though. We need to get enough revenue to buy techs, yet if the Europeans just keep extorting our gold we may as well use it and get some workers or something before they steal it.
Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HiawathaoftheIroquois1540_AD.SAV)

Furs are no Luxury, that's why I didn't start to connect them. Only Dyes, Wines and Ivory are Luxuries in AoD - thus the nearest Lux for us are the Dyes around Chichen Itza.

Got it. Will need 1-2 days to catch up in all my Sg's. Silks are also a lux in this scenario. Furs generate treasure in this scenario.

But nevertheless, it could be a good idea to connect some Furs or Gold for trading (especially to Civs with none of those in city radius :D )

IHT: Bought 3 french slaves for 360 gold. Commence map trading. Net around 15 gpt that way.
IBT: Barbs kill brit LB
Turn 1 Whack barb camp
Turn 2 lose MW to barb. These barbs are tougher than I remember. Did they get modded?
IBT England and spain team up on Inca.
Turn 3 Niagra falls builds something, starts settler. Oil springs temple to settler.
Turn 4: Allegheny Rax to temple.
IBT Maya start the temple of the sun and the temple of the moon.
Turn 5: Found Tonuwanda near colorado.
Turn 6: Salamanaca Lib to MW. Niagra Spear to MW, GR Settler to Rax. lux dwon to 10%.
IBT English start Luthers.
Turn 7: move
Turn 8: Spanish steal city site near Nashville. Get 2 workers from the Aztecs for construction.
Turn 9: move
Turn 10: Salamanaca MW to MW. Niagra riots. :blush: Oil springs settler to Rax. I would send him to the iron hill to his NW. Found Mauch Chunk. Our entire economy will now afford to buy us a tech. I vote for monotheism.

Get 2 workers from the Aztecs for construction
Yellow Alert!

Not a bad trade, but that means another American Civ will era -advance soon...and that means a LOT of Barbs will uprise all around us.

Monotheism, no question. The one thing we need is Catholic Monarchy, if we reach that in good shape, we will overrun everyone with GA-fueled MWs :)

I've got it.

There was a massive barbarian uprising, but they hit the Portugese and British Canadian holdings and left us alone. Sorry, didn't think to mention that.

Some things just occured to me:
- The Gov tech will be horribly expensive; I would imagine we cannot amass enough pure gp due to demands. But what else do we have to offer? Horses! Furs!
- That leads to something that needs to be done ASAP: We need a Harbor. Best bet is to found a city SW of the fish between Sal and the Dutch town, and whip a Harbor there soon.

Swap Salamanca to settler for our port city. Slight MM Mauch Chunk will start with Temple. THe MW's passing by will provide defense if needed. Take Montheism from England for 31GPT and 432g.

IBT Elizabeth demands the 8g I bargined out of her.

1551-1 Niagara Falls MW-->market I now see both settler are on Goto. I'll let them get to where they are going. Grand river is nearing unhappiness and the barrack switches to temple.

1552-2 Cattaraugus granary-->settler

1553-3

1554-4 Grand River temple-->barrack Allegheny temple--spearman St.Regis founded on gold next to furs and iron in the Rockies and starts a temple. Rush Tonawanda's temple. I think the French are fighting the Dutch.

1555-5 Salamanca settler-->MW Tonawanda temple-->barrack

IBT English archer enters our territory N of Salamanca.

1556-6 Centralia founded ot the mount of the Mississippi and starts a temple. Ask English to leave.

1557-7 English Archer continues south. Akwesasne founded as our portal to Europe. Nest problem....getting Astronomy for a harbor. I'll work on connecting us to the Eropeans near us and hope they have a harbor. Rush Barrack in Oil Springs.

1558-8 Allegheny spear-->spear Cattaraugus setter-->temple Oil Springs barrack-->spear

1559-9 Barb Pike following my settler north from Cattaraugus. Rush Temple in Mauch Chuck.

1560-10 Salamanca MW-->MW Mauch Chunk temple-->barrack Settler can found where he is next turn.(North shore of Lake Superior.)

Two MW are heading north to Barbs by Cattaraugus and a spear is heading to Tonawanda.(NOT on GOTO.) Spanish archer is in our area and I do not want to leave a city open. Allegheny can build a spear in 4 with some help, 6s-6s-4s-4s. I was thinking new towns need to build temple--barrack--spear. Markets can come when the towns get bigger like Grand River when the barrack completes. GR could produce another settler first since it has a granary. I did miss our scientist in all of my MM so we lost 2 turns on Enslavement...now due in 12.

The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HiawathaoftheIroquois1560_AD.SAV)

Iroquois 1560AD

Preturn:
Our fellow Native Americans are not doing exactly well; Inca are in OCC, Aztecs have 3 cities left, and only the Mayans are building the three Temples. That means, they have research all flavour techs, and hopefully come up with something we could trade. I’ll try to build up some more military, just in case; otherwise it looks like plain simple REXing again.
The Netherlands are lacking exactly the three resources we could trade them, if only someone would do us the favour to build a Harbor :wall:

Portugal has 25% World Population :eek: , but VPs are a non-issue (Portugal leads with 3165). We are even ahead of Netherlands in general score. The oddest thing is – we are already at turn 70/150!

Turn 1: 1561AD
Barbarian SoD approach, I’ll get some more MWs before more Settlers. And we need MPs anyway. Why are we irrigating Grassland in Despotism?

Turn 2: 1562AD
Found Tyendeaga on the only Grassland tile N of the lakes (no fresh water bonus).

Turn 3: 1563AD
Zzzz…decide to gift the Mayans in the next age, hoping for some tech brokering (they have neither Iron nor Horses, so the won’t benefit from anything the get.
IBT: Spain and Aztecs sign peace.

Turn 4: 1564AD
Zzzz…
Netherlands and Spain ally against poor Incans.
Aztecs and England come to peace.
English destroy Incans 

Turn 5: 1565AD
Zzz…again. Not even any interesting MM.

Turn 6: 1566AD
See turn 5.

Turn 7: 1567AD
See turn 5.
Only interesting thing: In the interturn, a Barb SoD does not attack in NW/SE direction, but keeps moving straight S :confused:

Turn 8: 1568AD
See turn 5. We still can make about 10gpt by creative map brokering – buy the Mayan and Portuguese one, and broker it around. Pretty tedious, but every gp counts.
IBT: Barbs kill a Spear/Slave combo 

Turn 9: 1569AD
Zzzz…

And finally…turn 10: 1570AD
Zzzz….

Those were easily the most boring turns I ever played in a SG. And, compared to the other AoD games, this one is also the least eventful one.
I didn’t continue with REXing, since I felt we were too short on Military, and the Barbs were annoying anyway. But since we should be easily able to capture the Euro colonies, it won’t matter.
No trades available, even 230gp and 53gpg don’t get us Theology. :mad: Why can’t the Spaniards build us a Harbor?
Btw, stealing a tech would cost at least 1240gp.

Standings:
England leads the charts with 6275VPs. However, they aren’t that much ahead in power. We’re 4th in area and 5th in pop.

Nice turns doc. I suggest we throw hard into our own research once enslavement completes.

:bump:

I love this smilie!

My calcs have the flatlined equestrian up.
So DH if you want it, take it. I can get to it on Sat at earliest.

Got it. :goodjob:

To War! (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/IRO1582.SAV)
Preturn: No changes.

IBT: The Barbarian Pike horde heads south into the fog.

Turn 1: MM Salamanca a bit so it can continue to grow while still pulling 10 spt, which is as good as 12 when building Mounted Warriors. Diplomacy reveals that we could buy Engineering or Medieval Combat, but still no dice on getting Theology. Build an Embassy in Amsterdam for 56 gold; looks like William of Orange will not be long in this world. Amsterdam is down to size 4, half of that as entertainers, and the rest of the Dutch European cities have fallen to France.

Turn 2: Enslavement comes in. I don’t think we have the time to research ball games at this point. Research begin on Theology @ 50% +1 gpt, due in 20. Will hopefully drop the price enough in order to let us just buy it. Monotheism gets us Ball Games and 28 gold from the Maya. We of course have no rubber though…

IBT: Isabella extorts the gold we made in the trade with the Mayans. The Aztecs start the Temple of the Sun.

Turn 3: No dice on buying Theology. Science to 60%. Whip the Temple in Akewanse.

IBT: The Spainards continue their crusade against the Barbarians. Henry extorts gold.

Turn 4: Nothing. Screw them all. Science to 80%. Demands are proportional to your treasury anyway.

IBT: Not much. English Man O’War spotted.

Turn 5: Road to Jamestown completed; the English do not have a harbor, of course. Consider just skipping research and going for the steal, but it would take us even longer to get enough gold (plus there is the concern of having it all extorted anyway) for even a immediate steal than it would to just research the stupid tech.

IBT: The Genius barbs attack longbows in the mountains, promoting a redlined spanish longbow all the way to elite from regular. Spanish settler/colonist pairs are becoming alarmingly common.

Turn 6: Start blockading Spanish settlers. Science to 70%, since it finishes theology at the same rate as 80.

IBT: More English Man o’wars sail by. Spanish settlers turn back.

Turn 7: Yarg

IBT: Portuguese Longbow spotted on possible sneak attack vector. French Longbows attack New Amsterdam. England starts Smith’s.

Turn 8: Buy Theology for our entire treasury +60 gpt. Demand that Henry leave. Unfortunatly, he agrees. Damn. Even better: Somehow the Mayans scrapped together enough gold to buy Engineering from someone. Theology to the Mayans for Engineering (too bad Smoke is broke). Man, is this anarchy gonna HURT!

Let’s see: We have four gold in our treasury, and, after MM’ing, -58gpt. Ah hell. Somehow we ended up with only a three turn anarchy, however, which means that we only lose 3 buildings. Yay!

IBT: Our people get very angry and start burning things.

Turn 9: Things keep burning.

IBT: European settlers keep spreading like the plague.

Turn 10: I will play through the end of this horrific anarchy I got us into.

Turn 11: We become a Catholic Monarchy. Lux tax to 20%, we are making +6gpt due to our massive debt with the Portuguese. Almost all specialists fired. Salamanca should be able to hit 15 spt soon (although our imminent GA makes this less relevant, I suppose. Most of our units remain unmoved.

We are a Monarchy [party]

Btw, if the Dutch get thrown out of Europe, we should be able to trade with them, since their Capital will most likely end up right next to us :crazyeye:

got it. Will play 9.

IHT: Portugal generously refunds our GPT payment and we get a GA killing a LB of theirs. All Dutch cities are on islands.
IBT: Spanish head back to SEC land.Swap TM's with England. Dutch and Portugese ally against us.
Turn 1: Lots of MW's are built every turn. Start a cathedral in our big town. Kill another LB.
IBT: English get colonist happy, and give me an idea.
Turn 2: Capture Texcoco from the Portugese. Get education for WM, 235 gold and 58 gpt from England.
IBT: Maya finish Temple of the Moon.
Turn 3: We trade education and 30 gold to the Maya for Invention. England rebates our gold. Kill colonist pair from England. Leave texcoco for the Ports, as they have a lot of LB's coming.
IBT: Texcoco recaptured.
Turn 4: Embassy in Paris. We get a MA against England for 61 gold, horses, furs, gold, and 10 gpt. Found a second city out west, founded one earlier but forgot about it.
IBT: Spanish clear the last of the great baarb uprisings.
Turn 5: Retake texcoco, burn the portugese ships, kill English pike.
IBT: England and France have traded over 8 units apiece in the New world already.
Turn 6: lose MW at portsmouth and Williamsburg, but kill a pike at both places. Capture Jamestown with 2 slaves and 2 treasures.
IBT: France declares on Spain.
Turn 7: return a treasure, lose MW at Portsmouth, retreat from Portsmouth. Trade for Astronomy from Spanish for furs, WM, 577 gold and 28 gpt.
IBT: Portugal and Spain against France. England and Aztecs ally against us. England kills a MW, and retreats another one. Maya declare on us for no good reason.
Turn 8: Kill a JT. Lose 2 MW's at Ilheus and a third against said JT.
Turn 9: Capture Williamsburg no losses 4 slaves. Lose a MW but capture Port Royal, 1 slave. Return a treasre. Lots of unmoved units. Pass off here.

Got it. Sounds like it'll be a lot of fun finally :)

What's up Doc?

:lol:

Sorry :blush: I did play some days ago, I just don't have net access for most of the time (I mean, I can surf/post at work, but I cannot upload files). Will post ASAP.

The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/IRO1591.zip)
Iroquios 1591AD

Ok, we start with exactly 10.0% territory…let’s see what we can do about that.

Slight problem: Our Rep is trashed…We can trade Resources to the Spanish, but not with the French (who are Gracious, so that’s not the problem). Obviously we broke a deal with Francis… because our trades run through a Spanish Harbor.
With 3 Spanish Longbows next to undefended Caughawana, I buy Med Combat for Gold and 46gpt from Spain.
IBT:
Spaniards move away. Couple of MWs.

Turn 1: 1592AD
Not much.
IBT:
Portuguese Knight lands near Cauna. Will loose it.

Turn 2: 1593AD
Capture Ilheus. Kill Longbows. Want to move a Worker next too our Capitol, to clear the Forest, but ‘Non-Combat unit may not attack’ - Spanish Inquisitors…
IBT:
Portugal declares on Spain…Sub Bug. The Knight next to Cauna runs into Inquisitors and redlines :lol:

Turn 3: 1594AD
Capture Boston.
IBT:
Spain finishes off the Knight. :D Thanks.
Jamestown produces a Treasure.

Turn 4: 1595AD
Turn 5: 1596AD
Whack Longbows. Reposition.

Turn 6: 1597AD
Return Treasure. The Spanish Inquisition is annoying - they clutter most roads near Salamanca while fighting the French :mad:

Turn 7: 1598AD
Assault 2 English towns, but fail to take them this turn.
IBT:
Build our first MDI in Salamanca (chop would be wasted otherwise, and we could need them later for amphibious assaults). English land 2 Knights in California :crazyeye:

Turn 8: 1599AD
This time, capture Baltimore.
Now, who is at war with France, and will accept peace for an acceptable price? Unfortunately, not the Dutch - they’re the only ones not fighting Francis. Then Portugal it is. Peace for 120gp (we pay).
Turn around and buy Exploration for Horses, Furs (he has no cities near any Furs), and 450gp. I want a couple of Fur Traders, and when they make peace with France, we will loose any trade abilities.
IBT: Dutch declare on the French :D for no apparent reason.
Iroquois State University finishes in Niagara Falls.

Turn 9: 1600AD
Capture Portsmouth (Seattle).
I’ll stop here, since it’s as even as a turn can be. Left a couple of MWs unmoved.

Notes
We can make straight peace with the Netherlands. They have no Iron (they have nothing, to be exact). We should be able trade for Navigation, a Tech we could need for the Ships. The Mayans have Siegecraft, Feudalism is self-researched in some turns, and Chivalry a :nono: right now, until we face Swissies or Muskets.
There are 2 Knights next to Calaxt, that’s why the MWs are oddly placed - we could not defend, so I waited for them to move into the open.
IMHO we should sign a RoP with Spain, capture Tenochtitlan and bring a Settler to get the Rubber.
Spain is pretty strong; they have a lot of Inquisitors running around in our lands (no goto commands!), I wouldn’t fight them before Knights and Pikes.

Everything looks good - except for one big problem: England has 20990 VPs, and Spain isn’t far behind! :eek:
I’d say every victory except cultural is fine, so returning Treasures may be our only chance to win…most likely, we’ll need to take Virginia, hopefully the Spaniards stockpile treasures there…
We are at 11.5% land; though this will improve a lot when we get some culture online (didn’t rush anything during GA), we’re far away from 40%...

I like the returning treasure Idea.

Me too, but we won't make enough with our Fur Traders; they only produce @12 turns (IIRC we have 5 cities near Furs, and I built FTs everywhere). Mining is too far away, but we can get a few more Furs on the Pacific coast. And we need to capture the Spanish Tobacco...but before we can do that, we must have enough Pikes to handle the Inquisition, and cleaned N America from the English.

I've got it and a weekend of catching up in SG's.

Hey Doc. Your linked save is not for AD1600. Could you upload the save again. Thanks.

:wallbash:
I'll search for it...

This time the rght one... (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Iroquois1600AD.zip)

Sorry again. :blush:

No problem. I've been busy and this let me catch up on my other games. I thought something was wrong when I would have to pay for peace. When I did not see any knights I knew something was wrong.

Well I have some bad news. Not only did I forget my turn log when I left for work today, We have suffered a VP defeat to the English. I'll post my last turns, save and some stats late tonight.

Oh well, time to move on to Napoleonic Europe...
Considering how many treasures England returned already during my turns, I think there was simply nothing we could have done about it. It's not that England gained a lot from somewhere within our reach, and it's not like nobody was at war with them. And England is pretty much immune to Pirates.
Guess the Natives can only win by OCC.
:(

Hmm, I thought that during my turns, I took a good portion of the English Empire out of NA. Oh Well, you win some, you lose some. There might be a reason that the Iro are unplayable.

I don't think England returned a single treasure from NA..

1600-0 Our GA income is required for Navigation so I will wait. I'm ignoring the Dutch until their cash get closer to what we can get for peace. If we will turn on Spain, I will not sign a RoP to honor for 20 turns. We have 11 to wait anyway. Kill an English longbow north of Jamestown. Move units to remove England from North America and the Aztecs form the earth.

IBT Spain has troops crossing our land in two locations but forces me to remove one MW. Chichen Itza completed the Temple of Kukulcan and Palenque completes the Temple of the Sun.

1601-1Sallamanca, Allegheny MW-->MW Tonawanda MW-->market Baltimore trapper-->temple St. Regis court-->trapper Tyendenaga trapper-->MW Attacking from a mountain onto hills, I take one hp from one knight and 3 from the other. Move in on Calix and Richmond.

IBT The 1 HP knight kills our fortified vet MW across a river in Caughnawaga and we lose 12g.

1602-2 Niagra Falls MDI-->MW Gran driver MW-->MW Lose one MW but take 90g in Calixtlahuaca. Missed it but the Maya took Tenochtitlan IBT so the Aztecs are no more.

IBT Netherlands declares of the Spanish. Lose two MW trying to get to Tenochtitlan. MDI kills my spear in Kahnawake and we lose another 14g. Golden Age ends.

1603-3 WW kicks up a notch so I take 120 from William for peace. Salamanca, Allegheny MW-->MW St. Regis trapper-->spear Kill an English longbow out west.

IBT Smoke comes asking for peace but I decline. Two longbows leave Richmond to kill one MW but the second wins. A MW near Caughnawaga does no damage to a knight. English send four ships around the horn to drop one LB near Texcoco.

1604-4 Cattaraugus court-->spear Ilheus temple-->barrack Kill longbow dropped off near Texcoco. Kill two more out west. Capture Richmond with 43g and a slave. Kill last English LB in the NE.

IBT England declares war on Spain. Kill a pair on LB's but lose another MW to the knight.

1605-5 Salamanca, Niagra Falls MW-->MW Port Royal temple-->barrack Finally see a vet promote out west approaching Calverton. Lose two MW attacking knight.

IBT Kill an MDI but lose one too. English knight kills my MW in Calixtlahuaca and take 14g. Other knight at 3hp kills a vet MW on a hill with no damage and retreats to

1606-6 WW up another notch. Oil Springs market-->spear Kill an English Swiss Merc and a Mayan spear. MM to get Feud next turn.

IBT Kill one LB but retreat from a second. English complete Smith's.

1607-7 Feudalism-->Chivalry Salamanca pike-->MW Allegheny MW-->MW Jamestown completes a treasure. Spear there picks it up to take home. Peace with Smoke picking up Navigation for Exploration and 264g. We still hold MedCom and he has Siege. War in England his hurting our happiness.

IBT Lose some slaves to the knight. Maya declared war on the Spanish.

1608-8 Niagara Falls MW-->MW Grand River MW--> trapper camp Cattaraugus pike-->MW Akwesasne granary-->MW Expansion pops barb hut in tundra.

THE END...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/RBC14J_ending.JPG

1st in Pollution and Mfg. Goods.

England with 36615 to our 10269VP. Port with 25565 and Spain with 25285
Portugal with 14% pop and 21% land to our 12 and 20.

Save from beginning of 1608. I did not antisipate the end so I just went back and "space-bared" everyone to get a save right before the end.

With more time, a native civ could catch up for a modified conquest win. There is not enought time to get tech parity.

And the save.... (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/RB14J_END2.SAV)

I wonder how England broke the VP barrier so quickly and by such a large margin?

Guyana. And quite a lot of VPs otherwise (they have been at war with pretty much everyone, and a couple of wonders, and the Tech lead).