Wayne Rooney i the best player in the tournament and is the top goal score of the whole competition.

Do you think England can win against Portugal on Thurday and the whole tournament hopefully? :p


Wayne Rooney. :goodjob:

One of the things that I both hate and enjoy about English football is that according to the media we are either wonderful world beaters or hopeless. At the moment we are on a euphoric wave and there is little sense of perspective.

Clear;ly England are a match for any team in the competition.

Can they beat Portugal. yes.

Can they win the tournamanet. Yes - but four or five other sides could equally well say the same thing.

I think this tournaent is pretty open. No team has looked markedly superior. All teams have weaknesses. In the end, like most big games, it will be decided by the shot that is deflected or the penalty given/not given.

As usual col is right. England fans need to learn restraint.

Yep Col is correct, we might just win against Portugal but we will have to earn it.

As usual col is right. England fans need to learn restraint.
Yep Col is correct, we might just win against Portugal but we will have to earn it.
Are you guys sure you're really English? :hmm:

I publicly (and as my first post in sports) pledge my alleigance to France.

Are you guys sure you're really English? :hmm:
We're the Englishmen who don't read the tabloids. You know, the guys seating in leather chairs drinking port and saying "quite" and "indeed" a lot.

Absolutely

We're the Englishmen who don't read the tabloids. You know, the guys seating in leather chairs drinking port and saying "quite" and "indeed" a lot.
With public school education and rather extravagant sexual fetishes?

You're indeed quite right in pointing out the difference between the beer drinking, tabloid reading, pub brawl loving Englishman of the Wayne Rooney type and the five-o'clock tea loving, Times reading Englishman of the Horace type.
But isn't what unifies them the extreme overestimation of their sports teams and in fact also their army and their country's stand in the world in general?

We're the Englishmen who don't read the tabloids.

I haven't read any sort of newspaper for a while now...

i can't get so excited over a football match anymore, i want them to win obviously and i can remember where i was when

1) they lost on penalties in Italia 92 (drunk in a pub in Braintree, Essex)
2) and in Euro 96 (student accomodation in Greenwich, London),
3) lost to Argentina (bar in Zürich)
4) lost to Brazil (midsummer celebration in Sweden, btw happy Midsummer celebrations for this coming weekend)

it's just that either age has mellowed me or the fact that my work has taken me all over Europe so that all of my friends are now not English. I already in this championship have felt soft spots towards Switzerland, France, Germany, Sweden, Denmark because of friends/workmates and for me it makes it more worthwhile watching

however if they win it, great bonus :)

Port? Yuk! :confused:

Anway... *rar, sog smash!*

It's a very tight tournament. England have a long history of being robbed by disalowed goals and so forth. I feel it's impossible to predict the remaining games with any accuracy.

Port? Yuk! :confused:

Anway... *rar, sog smash!*

It's a very tight tournament. England have a long history of being robbed by disalowed goals and so forth. I feel it's impossible to predict the remaining games with any accuracy.==

==

Well one thing's for sure, I can predict your lot wont win it ! :-)
and btw when was the last time you were robbed by a disallowed goal ?

With public school education and rather extravagant sexual fetishes?

Public school is a level above us, or at least me. That's for people with double-barrel names that are pronounced completely different to how their spelt.


You're indeed quite right in pointing out the difference between the beer drinking, tabloid reading, pub brawl loving Englishman of the Wayne Rooney type and the five-o'clock tea loving, Times reading Englishman of the Horace type.
But isn't what unifies them the extreme overestimation of their sports teams and in fact also their army and their country's stand in the world in general?[/QUOTE]
Not at all. The Horace-type of Englishman knows his country is no longer the greatest in the world at anything. In fact, the vast majority of their quips will probably be about this. That is not to say that they think their country is the worst, simply that we at a level below the best but above France.
Originally posted by Dell19
I haven't read any sort of newspaper for a while now...
Okay, we're the Englishmen who don't watch any of the many 'world's worst...' shows on ITV.

Public school is a level above us, or at least me. That's for people with double-barrel names that are pronounced completely different to how their spelt.


uh oh i go to a public school :blush:

well since their are so many people who are looking at England logically for once i feel that isomeone must go over the top and why not me :D I think we can win and do hope we can win we have got a lot of potnential espesially in Rooney and if Owen and Beckham come good dureing the tournement then we will have an excelent chance of winning it i also heard on the Radio today that England are 2nd favorites to win it according ot the betting shops

uh oh i go to a public school :blush:
So change your name to supper-salmon then. :)

So change your name to supper-salmon then. :)

i do seem to be getting to that stage. When ever i send letters of i always put ESQ after my name instead of MR at the front :p

i do seem to be getting to that stage. When ever i send letters of i always put ESQ after my name instead of MR at the front :p
If you wear a cap/hat as part of your school uniform as well then you so deserve a slap.

If you wear a cap/hat as part of your school uniform as well then you so deserve a slap.

My school used to wear hats but that was quite some time ago...

This from north of the border:

Mon the Portuguese!!! Get intae them!!!!

Seriously, I cannae wait to see Figo and the rest of the men 'o war against your backline. Remember Euro 2000??? And I hope that Clive Tyldelsey has a heart attack as the "past it" Figo rams home the fifth!!! Same goes for Big Des.

We're the Englishmen who don't read the tabloids. You know, the guys seating in leather chairs drinking port and saying "quite" and "indeed" a lot.
Shouldn't you be on Henman Hill? :p

Not at all, football has become the middle class sport of choice ;)

Besides, won't the football be over by the time Henman bravely loses the final in 5 nail-biting sets? :mischief:

Shouldn't you be on Henman Hill? :p
That's for yuppies.

I think they should try Henman in goal instead of James.

Don't be daft, he would only try and save the ball if it had bounced once inside the six yard box.

Besides, won't the football be over by the time Henman bravely loses the final in 5 nail-biting sets? :mischief:

He is going to reach the final? :eek:

One of the things that I both hate and enjoy about English football is that according to the media we are either wonderful world beaters or hopeless. At the moment we are on a euphoric wave and there is little sense of perspective.


You are not the only country which has that tendencies. Before yesterday the Dutch coach Dick Advocaat was the biggest loser in Holland he got boo'ed whenever he walked on the pitch to train the team because of his substitution of Robben. And now suddenly he's the media's hero everything is forgotten and allright. And he get's cheered when he walks on the pitch.

It's like people and the media behave like flocks of sheep shouting whatever they think at that moment.

I think England has a good chance, it's seems like Portugal isn't playing brilliantly at the moment and England is in a better position to win. That would mean they could play against Holland in the semi's which could be a close match.

Maybe France will stand up and get their old form back, who knows.

If you wear a cap/hat as part of your school uniform as well then you so deserve a slap.

i used to have to wear a cap to primary school :cry:

Well one thing's for sure, I can predict your lot wont win it ! :-)
and btw when was the last time you were robbed by a disallowed goal ?
My lot? I'm rooting for Sweden :lol:

Well, I dunno when the last time was but I can recall it happening during England vs Holland when I lived in the Netherlands... that was some time ago. I cannot be more precise.

One hour to kickoff and I'm not at all nervous (puts on lucky England shirt and opens another bottle)

Doesn't it bother you that Portugal conveniently found itself in Group A and so gets more time to rest between games? ;)

Been playing football, eaten, ready to go out and watch the game...

25 mins getting worried yet?

Wow. 1-0 after 3 mins. Michael Owen sharp and spun and shot after mistahe by portugese defense

England as usual defending far too deep.
Portugal have more possession but their keeper has had more saves to make and England look dangerous too.

Rooney injured ankle and taken off after 25 mins

Half time. 1-0 England. I cant believe there wont be more goals. Next goal is criticial.

Gutted. What on earth was the referee doing. Absoloutely Gutted.

Yeah, come on England!

:p... ahem...

We were robbed :(

And that Penalty spot was a disaster area

The ref might as well have been wearing a Portuguese shirt.

Holy ****, that was the greatest football match I've ever seen! :eek:
Both would have deserved to win, but there can be only one.

BTW, MrPresident, what are you trying to say with your signature?

Bah! Your first goal was lucky. And England was the better team - it's just a pity you thought the game was over after the first goal. Portugal deserved to win. Let me quote myself:

:p... ahem...

BTW, MrPresident, what are you trying to say with your signature?

The world's deadliest joke from a Monty Python sketch. As a matter of fact, he's endangering us all by quoting the joke in its full length...

The ref might as well have been wearing a Portuguese shirt.

Typical English arrogance... :rolleyes:

Very interesting all this discussion about schools in England. I didn't know there was such a big gap between social classes in England.

Very interesting all this discussion about schools in England. I didn't know there was such a big gap between social classes in England.
Class is everything in England.

I'm sad England is out. :(

It's never funny when major countries leave the competition soon. You could tell me that if it wasn't England, it would have been Portugal... but still. A former world champion is out tonight. :(

Euro 2008 should be held in France. ;)

Class is everything in England.

no it aint!

A former world champion is out tonight. :(

In 1966... Well theres always the WC in two years... Apparently its going to be England v Germany in the final... ;)

THAT was a robbed final...(WC 1966)..:mischief:

THAT was a robbed final...(WC 1966)..:mischief:
:yeah: :mad: Allied conspiracy... ;)

Now that the passion of last night has faded, its perhaps time for more reflective consideration of the England team.

Over the 4 games, marks out of 10

JAMES : 5
Doesnt inspire confidence. His big fault reamins his decision making. Too many fumbles.

NEVILLE G : 8
Consistent. Good defense. Good attitude.

CAMPBELL : 9
Giant in defense. Positionally excellent. Consistent won balls in the air and on the ground. Distribution has improved.

TERRY : 5
Seemed overawed and nervous at times. Positionally at fault many times. Distribution poor. Hasnt played anywhere near his standard for Chelsea this year.

COLE : 8
Excellent. Fast. Better defensively than he has been previously. Duel with Ronaldo the highlight.

BECKHAM : 4
Missed two crucial penalties. Seemed to lack fitness. Attacking qualities and athleticism seems a thing of the past.

GERRARD : 6
Disappointing for one of the most talented players in England. Little influence on games and passing inconsistent. Too many hopeful long balls over the top.

LAMPARD : 7
Scored at important times. Still possesses ability to break in support of strikers. Little seen of his shootng ability from distance.

SCHOLES : 5
Disappointing. Flashes of creativity but struggled to impose himself. Out of position on the left.

ROONEY : 9
Breakthrough tournament. Englands main threat.

OWEN : 6
Disappointing. Trier but looked a shadow of the payer of two years ago.

Defense outstanding. Midfield disappointing. Attack lacked support.
The reason for Englands failure resides in midfield. Their inability to retain possession, to support the strikers and to dominate the opposing midfield sowed the seeds in the French and Portugese defeats. Too often hopeful long balls were knocked down the channels for Owen to chase. These were few opening created from midfield.
England lack the ability to dominate or create pressure. Without Rooney they do not have a forward capable of holding possession while under pressure.

The manager: 7
Hard to criticise the choice of squad. There are no ther outstanding candidates pressing for places. Subs tended to be defensive in nature.
Biggest mistake? Vassell for Rooney. Vassell and Owen are too similar in style. Better choice might have been to push Scholes forward into his natural position and bring Hargreaves on down the left. Alternatively Heskey to change the nature of the threat. Ultimately England lacked a plan B.

Now that the passion of last night has faded, its perhaps time for more reflective consideration of the England team.

The manager: 7
Hard to criticise the choice of squad. There are no ther outstanding candidates pressing for places. Subs tended to be defensive in nature.
Biggest mistake? Vassell for Rooney. Vassell and Owen are too similar in style. Better choice might have been to push Scholes forward into his natural position and bring Hargreaves on down the left. Alternatively Heskey to change the nature of the threat. Ultimately England lacked a plan B.

==



Fair points Col But I would have to disagree with you the choice of squad and its not just your fault but most of your country which is one of the reasons I'm glad you out!

Choice of Squad was the problem what is wrong with the two English players that play for the Scottish champions Celtic???

Alan Thompson is on fire for us , and plays of the left one of your teams weak points, he's been looked at a few time but only given 45 mins in a friendly, poor choice by England as Thommo is our penalty taker as well!, he's an excellent crosser of the ball and scores goals in important matches for us i.e. Barcelona.

And as for Chris Sutton he has been one of our best players for the last few years a superb player who can play in a verity of positions from Centre forward to defender. To me he would have been an excellent choice to partner Rooney or at worst,
He is by miles a far better option than either Heskey or Vasell, a top class player, but he for the usual reason's is over looked.

With those two guys in your squad, I believe would have perhaps given you the edge and a better shape to the side.
My 2 cents.

Ive been wanting alan Thompson to be given a chance for England for a while now he came on for about 30mins in a match earleier in the year didnt have much of an impact but still would like him to be given a chance in the world cup qualifiers

I pretty much agree with everything Col said. Our midfield let us down big time. In all four games they looked in control and didn't provide the attack with the support it needed. Lesson learned from this tournament is that we have to push players forward in numbers and change to a more attacking mentality.

We were robbed :(


:confused: In what way?

@Mr.President: IMHO the ref was excellent and you honestly have nothing to complain about.

This great game basically came down to a lottery (penalty shootout) and Portugal was simply luckier.... (also had a better 'keeper, which helped)

I think 8 for Gary Neville is a bit generous. He certainly has a good attitude and work rate, but he does get caught out of position and is a bit slow. I expected his side to be the secure one, and Cole to be the liability, but Cole defended surprisingly well. I'd have given Neville a 7 at most.

Manager - 7 ? Well, he did rightly stick with Owen, but then again, who did he bring with him that could really have taken Owen's place ? (Why take Heskey ? Why not Smith ?) He should take some stick for the defensive approach used after being 1-0 up against France. IMHO, he should take a lot of stick for not learning from that, and repeating the same mistake against Portugal. England's midfield looked far better when trying to push forward than they did when defending and attempting to provide an outlet for the defenders - he should have had the team play to its strengths.

A 5 at best, frankly.

Also, I think "defense outstanding" is over-egging it somewhat. 6 goals conceded in 4 games, and always, always looking vulnerable from set-pieces - that's hardly outstanding, is it ?

@Mr.President: IMHO the ref was excellent and you honestly have nothing to complain about.
He was, in the words of Ian Wright, a homer.

He was, in the words of Ian Wright, a homer.

Ian Wright ? Ah, yes, there's an objective, balanced viewpoint. He and Reid were so partisan that it was as useful as having analysis from the bloke standing behind me in the pub. Motson was just about as bad too, but at least he has the excuse of having to react immediately to everything which happens.

There are not many objective balanced viewpoints where football is concerned, and very few posted here so far.

Fortunately, there are a few.

Col - 4/10 for Beckham, aren't you being a little generous :lol:

Fair points about Thompson and Sutton this season but they have been tried and found wanting in the past and Sutton in particluar blew it big time by his attirude when selected for a B game.

Perhaps I am over generous to Sven - I am in particular mystified as to why Bridge doesnt partner Cole down the left hand side.

Englands defence played well in general soaking up punishment that would have had most teams shipping goals by the buckeful. Goals conceded here were more due to midfield failure to relieve pressure - and in particular free kicks conceded by non defenders - than defensive errors although clearly they missed Ferdinand alongside Campbell.

Thompson sounds like a good player and should probably have had more chances in the team but Sutton has never really impressed in international games...

Ian Wright ? Ah, yes, there's an objective, balanced viewpoint.
Being bias doesn't make you wrong.

Fair points about Thompson and Sutton this season but they have been tried and found wanting in the past and Sutton in particluar blew it big time by his attirude when selected for a B game.

Perhaps I am over generous to Sven - I am in particular mystified as to why Bridge doesnt partner Cole down the left hand side.

Englands defence played well in general soaking up punishment that would have had most teams shipping goals by the buckeful. Goals conceded here were more due to midfield failure to relieve pressure - and in particular free kicks conceded by non defenders - than defensive errors although clearly they missed Ferdinand alongside Campbell.

=

Disagree with "been tried and found wanting",

Thommo had 45 mins and thats it , he would be a far better option than Scholes and he can also play in the middle, and as for Sutton well to me its England loss as he's a superb player twice as good as Heskey, and can play in many different roles.

Thompson sounds like a good player and should probably have had more chances in the team but Sutton has never really impressed in international games...


==
?
He's only ever had one Cap!




Tord impressed by Sutton
Tuesday, 06 January 2004.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
England coach Tord Grip believes Celtic striker Chris Sutton's best position could be in a defensive midfield role.
Sutton won the Premiership back in 1994/95 when he teamed up with Alan Shearer to form a brilliant attacking partnership which saw the two combine to score 49 goals and lift the title.

Since his move to Celtic Sutton has continued to score goals and last season saw him register 15 goals in his 28 SPL appearances. This season has seen the 30-year-old, who has just one cap to his name, continue in a rich vein of form.

"We know Chris Sutton can play," Tord said. "I saw him several times at Blackburn where he played up front, sometimes he went back to centre-back and now he is playing in midfield.

"He can play in an offensive role but I think the best role for him would be in a defensive role in central midfield."

Tord was at Celtic Park at the weekend to see the Bhoys beat their city rivals Rangers 3-0, in a match which saw another influential performance from Sutton and from fellow Englishman Alan Thompson.

Indeed, so impressive was Sutton's display that the England management will travel up to Edinburgh for Celtic's next match, away to Hearts.

"Sven has been very impressed with them both," Tord continued.

"They have done very well in Europe because they were in the UEFA Cup final last season and again this season so they can play at the top.

"Sven's likely to look at different players and I think we will do that because we know what we have got so far."

Chris Sutton - Stat Pack


Nationality: English
Place of Birth: Nottingham
Date of Birth: 10 March 1973
Weight: 12.01
Height: 6' 3''
Club: Celtic
Former Clubs: Norwich. Blackburn, Chelsea
Position: Striker

Year
Club
Apps.
Goals

1990/91
Norwich City
2
0

1991/92
Norwich City
21
2

1992/93
Norwich City
38
8

1993/94
Norwich City
41
25

1994/95
Blackburn Rovers
40
15

1995/96
Blackburn Rovers
13
0


1996/97
Blackburn Rovers
25
11

1997/98
Blackburn Rovers
35
18

1998/99
Blackburn Rovers
17
3

1999/00
Chelsea
28
1

2000/01
Celtic
24
11

2001/02
Celtic
18
4

2002/03
Celtic
28
15

2003/04
Celtic
13
13

1998/99
Blackburn Rovers
17
3

1999/00
Chelsea
28
1


And thats why he doesn't have a great reputation in England, he managed one goal at Chelsea before he moved to Celtic...

And thats why he doesn't have a great reputation in England, he managed one goal at Chelsea before he moved to Celtic...

==

Suttons Chelsea move was a bad period for him, and it just didn't work out, it can happen.
Our Manager took a gamble on taking him from Chelsea, if fact a very big gamble as 6 million is a big outlay for Celtic, but for us he's been a great signing and I think he's pretty well resigned to not getting any more Caps and to me it is a big loss for England, as with Celtic he's proved a class player.


With Thommo in your side and Sutton up front would probably be cheering you lot on last night. :-)

Closing this thread. Please post comments about the quarter finals in the quarter final thread.

:mischief:

But this thread was about England in general, not just the quarter finals...

Indeed it was. I simply wanted to avoid a major proliferation of threads about the same game .col

I think that what failed for England was that in order to fit their 4 best midfielders in the team, they had to come up with a formation that didn't suit the team play. First, a row of 4 is something that is not used anymore for decades. Beckham played on the right, but he was a shadow, I think he was terrible in every match, or at least didn't live up to the expectation. I mean, a winger lives to go to the line and cross. Despite evything that's still the basic play of a winger. Did Beckham do it at least once? I can't remember. He wasn't very mobile (maybe out of form) and only played long balls and crosses. As Neville is not exactly a geat right back. He works hard, but when he comes to attack, he rarely creates any danger. So, the right wing had two players that couldn't use it in the best of ways.

In the left there was Scholes, which of course is not Scholes position and I fear that England lost a great player that way. He was only dangerous when he did diagonals to the center. This means that the entire left wing was for Cole. If Cole attacks, there is no one in defence. Basicly, England's wings were not fully used.

In modern football, you can't have a midfield without someone supporting the defence and pressuring the opponent befoe they reach shot range. England only had a player whose natural position is this, Butt, but he got injured, and probably wouldn't play at all anyway, at least from the start. Therefor, this was a job for Gerrard and Lampard, but these players are definitely more useful in the attack. Lampard scored two goals, but one from a corner and another from a free kick.

England has to revise her midfield, and don't abuse of using her best players out of position. Oh, and finding a good keeper would be great for the team too. Kirkland? Robinson?

I must confest delight in English failure simply because of the media. I started out hoping they'd do OK, but the hurrah over the likes of Rooney has meant England's shameful performance against an average Portugal side was well received by me.

Regarding Chris Mutton. He is scum, and possibly the biggest wanker in football. Nothing is more vile than Sutton celebrating, foaming at the mouth, veins in his neck buldging.

bholed....from Edinburgh, so why the Tiochfaidh ar la...yet more evidence of disgraceful bigotry from scots Celtic fans...but i suppose he's going to confirm the old story that his great grandpa was from county Donegal.

That was a fantastic match, but Beckham played rubbish. The Portuguese goalie got a "double whammie", saved a goal and scored one during the penaties.

Go France!
Col, please don't cnage my signature again :p

bholed....from Edinburgh, so why the Tiochfaidh ar la...yet more evidence of disgraceful bigotry from scots Celtic fans...but i suppose he's going to confirm the old story that his great grandpa was from county Donegal.

Over 15 000 Celtic season ticket holders are from the Edinburgh region, Bloody gloryhunters!!!