Since R8FXT gave us the WONDERFUL, simply AMAZING Koori leaderhead (Douglas Nicholls), I would like to post an official request for a series of Australian units.
What I have in mind for the Koori is a selection of original Ancient Age and Medieval Age units including (possibly) early Gunpowder units. Yeah, some will be fictitious... since the indigenous people of Australia were still in the stone age when Europeans first set foot on Australian shores.

My idea for the Koori civ is to give them original units for the first two ages and then use mostly english units from the Musketeer/Fusillier era (a.k.a. Age of Enlightenment, early Industrial Age) on.

Most of these units will not require iron as a prerequiste even if their stats are close to those of the Swordsman/Longswordsman and similar units. This will give the Koori a slight advantage and will probably outweigh the disadvantages of not having any siege or armored horse units. No, no chariots either.

Please do not post until I have reserved my 4 to 6 spaces I need for my unit sketches. Since I am making them by hand, it may take me up to a week or so to post them all, so bear with me.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/KooriBoomerang.png

Without him the Koori civ wouldn't be complete: The Koori Boomerang Warrior!
He would be the first combat unit, replacing the generic warrior with similar stats, but RANGED! Give him bombard 1, range 1, Fire rate 1 and move 2.
Would also serve as the Koori scout.

The Blowpipe could be an replacement for the generic archer with similar stats but +1 hit points due to the massive shield he has.

Note the details:
- a small quiver containing the darts
- the loincloth is made from a dingo hide... check out the head! :D

The war paint could either be white or civ color...

Here he is... the Crocodile Warrior!
He could be a Swordsman replacement, but requires no iron.
He has ranged attack (see the javelins) and has an Obsidian dagger for close combat. His armor is made from crocodile leather and so is the helmet. Note also his belt: Genuine snakeskin - can you ask for more?

Here he is: The Koori Pikeman... battleworthily equipped with a boomerang (to surprise them with a ranged attack), a Pike (to keep those pesky enemies at bay) and an obsidian dagger to spill their guts should they come too close for comfort. A true warrior - and still no need for iron! His armor is made from crocodile leather and his hat from pigskin reinforced rabbit fur (the precursor to the famous bush hat).

Here he is, armed with an elaborately decorated Matchlock Musket: The Koori Musketeer. Since the leather tunic offers little protection against bullets, he only wears "Lederhosen" - Koori style! They're made from crocodile leather, oh yeah - what luxury! Other than his musket, he also has a dagger which he will use if his powder got wet or he just fired his last shot... But the pouch-bag holds alot of powder and balls, so don't bet on it!

OK...now, please give me your feedback (especially you unit creators out there! Kinboat... can you hear me? :) )

Hmm.. it's been 2 days and no responses? Are my sketches that bad? LOL
Anyway, I posted a second unit sketch.. the Koori Blowpipe!

Hey, thoes are really good!

He got some nice pants :lol:

check it out... a new unit concept! That brings it to three... now if only some of the gifted unit creators would be intrigued and interested? :)

Very Nice! Love That Helmet :D

Your a good artist Topgun!

I diffinitely will add my suppost in the form of thread bumping if it becomes neccesary.

Thanks, Geddon! (For the compliment and the support.)
I hope to finish the concept sketches for at least 2 or 3 more units within the next week or two...

Its not a problem Topgun. I think all culture groups should be represented in game.

You have Four 'empty' posts in a row, Topgun, so I excpect four more unit sketches :D

Indeed Goldflash...I wonder what other units your cooking up...

BUMP! Mhahahaha!!

:bump: mhahahaha!

Check it out... the Koori Pikeman is here!

I like how you made his hair less wild than the others Topgun, he's more refined than his ancestors from the Stone Age.

just letting you know... I haven't forgotten these. Just haven't had the time to finish my sketches. (The weather has been too good! LOL)

I would be happy to add an Australian Civ. I missed this thread, but I hope some unit creator will be interested.

Hmmm...
You have some great sketches there, they're first class. I'd be willing to try to make these units, but it depends on several factors -
1. Sparts ability to model a human. (He's still a beginner, it'll be a while.)
2. My ability to animate the units. (I'm still a beginner, making things walk is still very hard for me.)

Anyway, I'll see if Spart could eventually make a human model, but it may be a couple units of experience down the road. (i.e., after we get some more practice.) Hopefully we'll figure out non-tank units soon. Anyway, good luck!

[offtopic] Has anyone made any Inuit units either? I guess my Arctic Tank counts, but it sucks. :lol: Just another civ that has NO units AT ALL.

The Inuits haven't got any single unit. :-/ Myself, I mix them with the Canadians for the late eras, but the Inuits themself, nada.

Hey, TopGun, those are pretty interesting. Check you PM's. Maybe I could help you make one.

:band: :clap: :bounce: [party] :thanx: :banana: :rockon:

btw.. Little detail.. but the blowpipe warrior shouldn't have some dingo furs. If set in the Ancient Age, it should be at least a Thylacine. Yup, detail we wouldn't even see in civ scale but I had to say it :D

hey Supa, is this what you had in mind?

I'd still love to see just a standard boomerang thrower as per my original request before fantasy units were created, as suggested in the koori thread, but beggars can't be choosers i guess...

Yup, Topgun, exactly this.

I'm sorry to be critical, but as you asked for feedback, here's some (hopefully something constructive in it) criticism:

The first thing that occured to me was "great, any more dark skinned units would be a boon", as they might play for Africans or Melanesians. The distinct art and dress of Aboriginal Australians (and Papuans also) would be graphically welcome.

But it brings up the question of what is a civ? Australian Aborigines have left very little in the way of permanent settlement, much less a historical kingdom or empire, which is typically the criteria for inclusion in the game.

If your criteria is looser (fine), so as to include other cultures/subraces that might have projected differently under different historical, geographical, or environmental circumstances, then the omission of iron from their technological horizon makes no sense. Furthermore, the Koori and their Australoid neighbors had upward of 40,000 years to develop "crocodile armour" and other theoretical advancements, but they didn't. If they had had steel, or a domesticable grain in conjunction with the Murray-Darling basin, or any number of other luxuries (like oxen or horses, or neighbors who didn't prefer crossing the Pacific and Indian oceans over saying G'day) they might have progressed technologically into a different realm, and in an Epic Civ game they could, but it would include iron, elephants, horses, and more than the most incipient of agriculture. A Koori without those bonuses is the historical Koori we know - a fine human - but not a maker of empires.

- Redking

Redking, I appreciate your feedback. In fact, I do agree with you about the fact that, had the indigenous people of Australia had a variety of domesticable crops and large domesticable mammals, they sure would have been able to advance technologically. As such, the exclusion of iron for units available AFTER the discover of iron working makes no sense. I think, I'll change should these units become reality.

Margim, yeah... I do think the Boomerang Warrior is indispensable for the Koori civ. But since CivIII is all about the "what-could-have-been-if", it is OK to provide ficticious units for civilizations who didn't do so well in actual history and therefore have no historically correct units. It works as long as these ficticious units follow a reasonable technological trajectory AND incorporate the spirit of the respective civilization. I am all for historically accurate units, but to me that also includes what I've just stated.

In fact, I do agree with you about the fact that, had the indigenous people of Australia had a variety of domesticable crops and large domesticable mammals, they sure would have been able to advance technologically.

Well, its a question of necessity, not ability. The only reason one has to go about scratching in the dirt trying to plant things in the first place is because all the other food resources have been used up. As long as people could hunt and forage for food, they didn't bother with agriculture.
It should be noted, however, that the Koori did practice a sort of "farming", as some of the coastal groups built complex canal-type constructions for trapping eels.
I don't think they qualify as a civilization or even necessarily a potential one, though. That's not to say that they weren't innovative or did some remarkable things, I think people are misled into thinking that a Neolithic society is all that simple, when in fact Neolithic societies have been known to build monuments and other complex structures, develop advanced hierarchies, even build roads, mine, and conduct limited agriculture all without ever really becoming a 'civilization' in the sense of having a city and a formal political state. Neolithic society wasn't all that simple as people believe, and the emergence of civilization was a long and gradual process of many small factors developing slowly, not a revolution. Also not all societies are capable of becoming a civilization; the formation of a civilization requires that people not be too individualistic and very much willing to participate in a very hierarchical social model.

I'm sorry to be critical, but as you asked for feedback, here's some (hopefully something constructive in it) criticism:

But it brings up the question of what is a civ? Australian Aborigines have left very little in the way of permanent settlement, much less a historical kingdom or empire, which is typically the criteria for inclusion in the game.



Agreed. Which is why the koori haven't been considered in most other peoples mods. I in fact have argued for Australia (post colonization) over a native Australian civ. However, I proposed a Koori civ some time back so people who wanted a geographically balanced spread of civs could have two nations starting on the Australian continent. I started a thread, stating my reasons for why I thought such a civ would be suitable, created a city list, found the great leaders, and asked R8XFT to do a leaderhead, which is awesome for a bit of variety in mods. A quick search will find the thread.

Civ is very Euro focused, most mods have concentrated on expanding the americas (certainly many of the new leaderheads are). The koori merely give credit to a scientifically undeveloped people who nevertheless dominated a continent for thousands of years. They did have some distinct methods of farming and raising livestock - it just wasn't what Europeans considered conventional. There is evidence of stone houses, irrigation systems, and eel farms.

All that being said, If you don't like them, don't mod them. Thats the fun in the choice that modding brings :D

Margim, yeah... I do think the Boomerang Warrior is indispensable for the Koori civ. But since CivIII is all about the "what-could-have-been-if", it is OK to provide ficticious units for civilizations who didn't do so well in actual history and therefore have no historically correct units. It works as long as these ficticious units follow a reasonable technological trajectory AND incorporate the spirit of the respective civilization. I am all for historically accurate units, but to me that also includes what I've just stated.

Point taken, I simply would prefer FIRST to have a real unit for the koori to mod them in just like any other civ. After that, it'd be cool to go as hypothetical as we like.

Margim, I'd expect that sort of response from someone who barracks for Essendon.

Just kidding.

Your point is well taken, for the sake of gameplay and variety.

My bigger point was that the Koori, in an alternate Epic game (rather than a historic scenario attempt) should be given the option of using iron and horses to their most. But then, in such an Epic game, isn't a white Australian just a far-flung settlement of the English Civ?

- Redking

Margim, I'd expect that sort of response from someone who barracks for Essendon.

Just kidding.


:P Collingwood supporter?


Your point is well taken, for the sake of gameplay and variety.

My bigger point was that the Koori, in an alternate Epic game (rather than a historic scenario attempt) should be given the option of using iron and horses to their most. But then, in such an Epic game, isn't a white Australian just a far-flung settlement of the English Civ?

- Redking

Possibly... although I'd argue as a island/continent/nation in our own right, we ceased to be a British settlement when we started looking to our own *gasp* rather than 'Empire' interests as the Japanses started pummeling the Pacific in WW2...

If our respective countries didn't look out for their own interests, both the US and Australia would still be part of Great Britain... :lol:

I second that, Geddon!

But since Civ3 doesn't account for splinter Civs I always thought the inclusion of America as a Civ was ridiculous, as would Australia be.

I always thought they should've gone to the added trouble of allowing a Civ to be designated as a "latecomer" if one of the originals gets obliterated, or perhaps something of a queue. So, when the Babylonians go the way of the dodo as a distinct culture, the Ottomans are set in motion in some remote spot... and when the Byzantines bite it, then the Americans (or Australians) are put on the map.

But those seemingly simple mechanisms are only to be dreamed of, like Civ2-style unit support, and other such luxuries.

- Redking

Hey, I'll have you know that America is very worthy of being in Civ3.....after all, who invented Fast Food eh? :mischief: Who else would you blame all the world's problems on? :lol:

Besides, considering the Roman Empire...The Byzantines, British, Spanish, Germans would all be considered "splinter civs" :p

Don't wanna let this thread slip too low... I still think we "need" the Koori... :)

yeah...might be awile until they all become units though. Theres alot of stuff, an incredible amount actually, that could be made for Civ3.

Very true. We are surely having very exciting times in Civland these days. So many new top notch leaderheads, so many new civilizations and endless possibilities for units etc. Not to mention great unit/LH artists who give so much to so many!

check out post #6. I've posted another concept sketch... the first gunpowder unit for the Koori.

Thanks to Utahjazz, who made the Crocodile Warrior reality. The unit can be found here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=98051) . I must say, it came out really nice!

BTW, Dease is working on the Koori Pikeman. Check this thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=98404) for continous updates on his work. :)

You forgot the woomera (spear thrower) and the kurdaitcha (ritual assassins who would cover themselves in blood and emu feathers and not rest until their opponents were slain -- nope, not kidding).

-Oz

Nasty....I think we can skip that one... :p

Two out of five Koori units ain't bad.

Hey Geddon, I thought "you" were gonna make the remaining Koori units once you are familiar with Poser? ;)

I'd like to...only have Poser One though, and that doesn't do what the later versions can do(it was made TEN years ago), I hope to get Poser Four eventually, that will solve our problem.