All game settings random. I know about as little as you do. Except that it's a standard-size map. Beyond that, there's not a whole lot to tell about the game set-up. Heck, I didn't even eliminate lethal land bombard for bombers -- this is straight C3C 1.22.

Start was pretty standard. We actually originated on some wheat, but I moved us off onto a nearby hill to found our first city. Irrigated the wheat and got us going just a tiny little bit. We're researching Pottery as fast as we can.

Oh, we're the Chinese -- Industrious and Militaristic with the 4/3/3 knight-replacing Rider as our UU. Fine civ...not exactly the one I would've chosen for this, but, oh well.

What's the twist? Well, I don't really want to say. Suffice it to say, it's not one I've really tried out a whole lot, so it might turn out to be a really easy game. I expect at least a few interesting turns, though.

First couple players should probably be at least emperor-capable, though, so that things don't get too far off track. If you can't micromanage Beijing to the forest for a turn and then back to the wheat to still get growth in 2 and gain extra shields, please don't play right away.

It's been a while since I've played much regeant, so I hope this is about the right level of difficulty. I fear it may be too easy, however. <Shrug> Only time will tell. I tried making it a bit harder, but, well, it wasn't working so well, so I'm going with this.

Who's up next?

Arathorn

EDIT:
Arathorn's OPEN SG rules!
Anyone can claim as long as the game is available. Just post an "I got it" and play.
10 turns! Please try to abide by this.
Please only claim if you can play and post in 24 hours. If it'll be longer, please wait to claim, so someone else can!
No exploits, please.
[/EDIT]

*Zwingli opens save*
:confused: Oh wait, it is already 450 BC? We only have a handful of shields and food in the bin to show for it? So that’s the twist :crazyeye:

Preturn: Check diplomacy, and we already know the Ottomans who are, of course, ahead of us by all visible techs. In terms of wonders, the Oracle has been built by the Celts, the Colossus by Spain, and TOA and the Pyramids are under construction.

Early: We meet Spain who is similarly ahead of us. The Ottomans start the Hanging Gardens and switch to Monarchy. The warrior completes on schedule and heads westward, and Beijing switches to a granary prebuild.

Middle: Pottery comes in, and Beijing switches to Granary. I think about shutting off research to buy tech, but we are in no position to refuse demands so max science is set for Alphabet.

Late: Spain starts the Great Library, ending any hope of a late Literature monopoly (a check of F11 reveals we are 7th in literacy meaning only one other civ is without Literature). A Babylonian bowman wanders by Beijing on the last turn giving us another contact.


Alphabet is due in 9 turns for now, and I would suggest a beeline for Republic to improve research ability. There seems to be plenty of land left to grab, but the other civs have 6-9 cities by now and should be able to crank settlers fairly quickly. Aggressive settlements will be a major problem in the near future since our civ-wide culture is about 5% of the weakest opponent.

Got it while cursing the minimum character limit for posting.

This looks similar to Sirian's "In the hole" Epic way back when, where he had intentionally mismanaged England for some centuries. There, we had a chance to research a monopoly tech (monarchy) to catch up rather fast - this one here looks more interesting.

Beijing has completed the granary and has built two more warriors. I left the second one unmoved for the next player ro decide if we want to keep him home for MP duty or go out exploring. I vote for the latter.
The capital is size six now and can make 10spt for a settler in 3.

Alphabet came in and we're researching writing now.

Spain has completed the pyramids, and the Ottomans have changed their wonder build to Sun Tzu's(!).

Our scouting warrior has seen ruins of a former city; there seemed to have been a war between Babylon and Spain.

Who's the next one to grab this?

-Kylearan

I find myself with some unexpected time. I got it.

Arathorn

What needs to be said? It looks like this game is crazy -- what happened? Did we spend the first 100 turns with our worker and settler just fortified? Doing nothing? We're more than a little behind.

I didn't do a whole lot. I explored with our meager exploration force -- no new contacts. The Ottomans are to our NE, too. They're EVERYWHERE!

I did manage to found two cities...in poor locations. I got beat by a single turn to a site to our SE by the Babylonians. It'd be nice if Shuruppak would flip to us, but with our culture 1/30th of theirs, at best, it's probably reasonably unlikely. Anyway, Shanghai is pretty much due east of Beijing and Canton is a bit close to the NW. We still don't have Writing, but the Babylonians don't have Mathematics yet, so we might be able to twofer, if we had any cash or income.

I started a curragh, as we desperately need more contacts. The civs around us are some of the most powerful in the game, judging by F11. That's to be expected, as they had lots of room to expand into peacefully -- land that might have been ours in a different reality.

Keep the warrior in the SW moving SW. He can hopefully make it through Babylonia to discover new peoples and new interests.

I've attached a dotmap and a power graph. We're on our way up! We've gone from completely invisible to having a tiny fraction of a sliver of power.

Who's next?

Arathorn

Got it..............

preturn: lower sci to 60 still get Writing in 6, but may have to raise again since a settler is due in 3 turns.

We actually can see Babylon lacks Mathematics while Spain and Ottoman have it, and we can use 11gpt to buy it. But I'll finish Writing and the settler first, and try to get CoL or at least Philosophy for the two-fer.

(1)170AD: MM to get settlers still in 3 turns but get extra commerce so we could get Writing in 4 turns at 70% science.

IBT Ottomans demand 3g I cave.

(2)190AD: ZZZ

IBT settler->warrior.

(3)210AD: lower lux and we can get to Writing in 2 turns break-even.

IBT Spain starts Hanging Gardens and completes MoM. Vikings complete Great Lighthouse.

(4)230AD: ZZZ

IBT Writing is in.

(5)250AD: We cannot buy Math yet. Need to found another city first. AI has all techs we can see.

(6)260AD: I found Nanking. I buy Math from Ottomans with 10gpt+11g. I can see Babylon doesn't have Currency!

I can get CoL by Math+2gpt+1g, or Philosophy+33g by Math. I decide to go for CoL as I'm afraid AI demand. It leaves us 2gpt income, just to be able to cover the settler in 3 turns.

Then I start min research on Philosophy. Making 1gpt.

I'm not sure what Nanking should be working on. I set it to granary for now as we need growth badly. But someone may want to pop up a worker.

(7)270AD:

(8)280AD:

IBT Babylon starts ToA. It probably means it just got polytheism.

(9)290AD: Another settler is built and we can lower lux to 10.

(10)300AD:

We need more contacts indeed. The fact that Babylon lacks a bunch of techs is comforting.

Next settler could settle west to Canton. We also need more workers.

We could raise sci to 20 and get Philosophy in 36 turns instead of 46. I think we should do it.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/LOTR15-300AD.jpg

Ggoott iitt..

Our SW warrior trying to get through Babylon was booted to our side again. But I woke all other warriors we had and sent them our exploring, and one made it through Ottoman land to the north. Additionally, we have a curragh exploring the continent counter-clockwise.

The Celts have completed the great wall.

I have founded two cities, Tsingtao and XInjan, and we have one last settler on our way to the north, then all lands in our direct vicinity have been settled. With no culture, Xinjan is at major flip risk, but maybe we can get rid of the surrounding Ottoman cities before that happens - which brings me to the next topic at hand:

We need to wage war. It's way too crowded around us, and the AIs are way too large, and we are way too behind in tech, so let's do some pointy stick research! Some slaves won't hurt either. Canton is pumping archers already, some cities are building barracks to pump archers then, too, and maybe we can acquire bronze working for some spears before it actually starts, though that is not really needed against Regent foes. I suggest to attack Babylon first; maybe they don't already have feudalism yet.

Please keep a close eye on micromanaging Beijing! Beijing and Canton share the wheat tile, please don't forget to give it back to Beijing next turn.

Who wants to prepare us for war?

-Kylearan

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/lotr15-400ad.JPG

I'm game to set up the war.

Key events:

Ottomans complete the Hanging Gardens.

Next turn Xingian filps to them. It just completed a worker so it was the best posible time to lose the city if there is such a thing.

Second curragh heading clock wise.

Thinking pointy stick is the way we will be going, I give Spain 11GPT and 25g for Bronze Working and the Wheel. We have horses in the hills east of Beijing. They will be connected in 2. I chose Spain because we will be attacking Babylon too soon and the Ottomans are big enough.

I have 3 workers clearing the jungle between Canton and Tsingtao. The Ottomans are building the roads so the least I can do is clear the jungle behind them.

We now have 4 archers ready to move in on Shurppak. One more turn and the first spear will have caught up. Our settler is over here to replace a size one town. I have 3 warrior scouts gathering in the mountains above Zariqum. This city must be sitting on some saltpeter. The spear that will be ready next turn needs to go to Nanking.

Beijing is now size 6 and making 10spt but requires 20% tax. Science is at 20% also to get Philosophy in 5 @-2GPT with 11 in the bank.


Time for war. (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/lotr15-500AD.zip)

Got it. Will see to the war :)

Not my best turns, but we have a bit more elbow room and the opportunity to pick up Republic.

500 AD (0)
In addition to the archer stack, I move a couple of warriors in position as backup. Shanghai switches to catapult.

IBT- Babylon completes the Great Library

510 AD (1)
The troops move into position at Shurrupak.

IBT- Spain Establishes an embassy for us.

520 AD (2)
Tsingtao grows and gets a taxman. Babylon is currently without gold, reducing the odds that they will buy an ally. After removing the curraugh from Babylonian waters, I declare war and move 4 archers, 2 warriors, a settler and a spear into position.

530 AD (3)
Attack on Shurrupak
We destroy 2 spearmen and a bowman losing 1 archer. Shurrupak is razed, and the settler moves to replace it in a less pressured position (a poor position, but I'm paranoid about Spanish culture).

540 AD (4)
An exploring curraugh discovers the Vikings. Babylon has upgraded to pikemen, but unconnected Zariqum is still defended by a spearman. All available units are diverted toward Zariqum.

IBT- We learn Philosophy and start minimum science on Republic.

550 AD (5)
Shanghai grows and gets a taxman to keep the peace. Chendu is founded near the ruins of Shurrupak. A warrior near Zariqum pillages a Babylonian tile.

IBT- An archer on a mountain defends against a Bowman outside Zariqum. Celts complete the Statue of Zeus.

560 AD (6)
The northern curraugh turns southward to see if the Vikings are on a new landmass. More troops head for Zariqum.

570 AD (7)
3 archers, 6 warriors, a spearman, a catapult, and a settler move into position for the attack on Zariqum.

IBT- Our reg warrior on a hill defends against a bowman.

580 AD (8)
Attack on Zaiqum
The catapult fails
the first archer loses to the babylonian spear promoting it after 1hp
the second elite archer destroys the spear
third archer loses inflicting 1 hp of damage.
The last 2hp spear takes out 2 reg and 1 vet warrior, promoting to elite but we raze the city anyway and the settler moves to replace.

590 AD (9)
Noting the weakness of the Babylonian counterattack, I move on Nippur with some an archer, a catapult, and an injured warrior looking to do some pillaging.

IBT- Babylon attacks from Nippur with a Med Inf, killing an archer and capturing our catapult.

600 AD (10)
We found Hangchow to replace Zariqum.

I have left most units unmoved for the next player, and most builds are currently placeholders. Babylon will part with Republic for 17gpt + 44g (if we shut off lux tax) or will give us less valuable techs for free. There was really no reason to continue the war after razing Zariqum since Nippur is defended by pikemen, but a 2hp Med Inf is standing on flat ground next to a 3hp elite archer if you feel lucky.

Where is the GL city?

It's both good and bad news. Good news is that we can try to capture it. Bad news is that Babylon will get ahead in tech and we'll lose a trading partner.

Still good news for the most part. I suggest we shut down research after Republic, build some horsemen and capture the GL in 20 turns?

Beijing is the capital. It does not need the courthouse it is building in the picture.
Did a Bowman win a battle and start their Golded Age?

I believe the Great Library was built in Babylon, which is quite some distance from our current front. Even so, it might be possible to take a pike defended capital with enough horsemen, but I’m not sure that would be the easiest way to catch up in tech.

No Babylonian bowmen managed to win a victory in this particular war, although they may have already triggered their GA during their earlier conflict with Spain. They may very well have also triggered it by building the Great Library (if they also own one of the numerous ancient religious wonders).

Of course, the courthouse in Beijing is a placeholder for a potential Marketplace if we choose to extort Currency or buy it with Republic-enhanced income. Our landmass seems to be a Pangaea or a very large continent, and the Northern curraugh should probably turn around and head north again since it appears to be headed for a dead end.

Got it! Will play tonight.

PreTurn: I feel lucky and kill the wounded bowman with the elite archer, but no leader arises; Hamurabi gives iron working, horseback riding and 5 gold for peace - we take his offer, we have iron!; Bejing changed to settler and growth to 7 will be stopped till settler arives, we need to settler the small landmass we have. Shanghai switched to archer; reshuffle garrison; start research on Republic
610AD: nothing special
620AD: nothing special
630AD: Beijing settler-settler; Tsingtao worker-barracks
640AD:
650AD: Isabella wants 21 gold, we give it; Canton prosuces first horseman
660AD: next settler produced
670AD: Tietsin founded
680AD:
690AD: Osman wants 20 gold, I give again
700AD: Tatung founded

Rebuplic is due in 12. Iron will be connected next turn so we could build swordsmen. Quite uneventfull, but an interesting game nonetheless - will monitor it, and try to play from time to time, if you want me :)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/lotr15-700ad.jpg

It may be my only one, but got it.

Any update?

Thanks for bumping this, microbe. I've been meaning to, but then I get mixed up in something else...sometimes it's even what I'm supposed to be doing. Anyway, I'll PM Lee and give him a final warning. It probably just got lost in a sea of other games. Then I'll start policing (and playing) in this one a bit more.

I will also edit the first post. Anyone can claim, but play and post within 24 hours. EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY! :)

Arathorn

The turn is actually done. I must have failed to post it, or it disappeared with my net connection.

It will post tongiht.

700 AD (pre-turn)
I knock science down a notch. I don't want a $12 demand, and we go negative cash losing a building and worker.
(IT) This is so bizarre to be playing regent and to see another civ building Sistine when we can't even build temples.

Summary:
Nothing of significance happened during my turns. I build a more military, and the next player can hopefully pound Spain some. Pointy stick is still our best option for catching up in tech.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/LOTR15-800AD.zip

Got it and playing now.

(I) Wow, the Ottomans are frighteningly large! That is something we will have to fix sooner or later. But first let's a deal with a foe more our size: Spain. I review the situation, and thank Lee for a nice setup. I decide not to wait for more forces but declare war right away.
Killing two spears and an archer in Pamplona capturs the city, but we lose a horse in the process. We also capture three workers.

810AD: Nothing to see from Spain. We get the FP message.

820AD: We kill two separs and an archer in Valencia and capture the city.

830AD Republic comes in, and we revolt immediately. Next research project is ceremonial burial, for several reasons: Several cities need border expansions, we can extort more expensive techs from Spain for peace, and we can get it in four turns even in anarchy. :D
Six Spanish archers have approached Valencia, and five are killed and one wounded by our only catapult.

840AD Kill another three archers, losing one elite horse. :(

850AD Kill another three.

860AD Kill another four. We have lots of elite units now, but fail to score a leader. That's okay though, I'm not sure if I would be happy to gain the upper hand in yet another war by getting a broken army... It's fun to fight a "normal" offensive war for a change.

870AD Kill another two archers. Ceremonial burial comes in, and mysticism is next (in 5, but should effectively be in 4 once we will be out of anarchy).

880AD Kill another five archers - wow, Spain has a nice supply of archers!

890AD Kill another four, still no leader. We are a republic, and indeed are able to reduce research time for mysticism.

900AD Kill another four archers without getting a leader.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/lotr15-900ad.jpg

Spain's flow of archers seems to lessen, and now that we are productive again, we should be able to capture more cities. I strongly suggest to go for Salamanca next: We can attack it with horses out of our territory, and it will give us our first luxury. They would already part with several techs for peace, but why stop now? :hammer:

Beijing will reach the 15spt threshold in three turns for a sword or a horse every two turns; please don't forget to set it up when it grows.

We can and should start to build our FP now; don't know where and I'm too lazy to think about it right now... :P


Who's up next? A fun and easy war is to be enjoyed! :cool:

-Kylearan

My turn again.

Arathorn

I agree with the need to continue the war on the Spanish. But only for a while. After Salamanca falls, I want to get techs and oscillate over to the Babylonians and get some stuff from them before returning to Spain.

I prefer speed to strength, in most circumstances, so most sword builds are changed over to horses.

Early on, I kill Spanish archers that are nearing various cities, trying to wreak havoc, but only causing minor problems. I have at least three horses retreat from archers, but very few casualties. We're swimming in unit upkeep costs, so some casualties wouldn't be all bad, but there's something about losing an elite horse to an archer that feels wrong. The Spanish complete Sistine Chapel in 910 AD (cascade goes to Leo's). And I pay the Vikings 7 gold to keep the peace.

The game breaks in 730 AD, when...
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/lotr15-930ad-leader.jpg

I load three horses into this army to make it not too-uber, but I still use it as the first force against Salamanca in 940 AD. I follow that attack with an elite horse and...
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/lotr15-940ad-leader.jpg

Instead of doing the intelligent thing with this leader and rushing a FP, I make another army, which eventually gets filled with swords.

Anyway, that second attack was enough to empty Salamanca and I raze it, since our culture is approximately 1/20th of Spain's. I kill other assorted troops in the open (3 archers) to make peace as valuable as possible.

In 940 AD, Spain signs peace with us, giving us Currency, Polytheism, Map Making, 26 gold, and 4 gpt.

The rest of the turn is primarily uninteresting. I heal our troops and have us all set up to declare on Babylon. I probably could've declared safely about turn 9 (990 AD), but I wanted to give the next leader some flexibility. We are absolutely drowning in unit costs (to the tune of ~50 gpt) -- any towns we can grow to size 7 cities helps tremendously.

I tried to sneak in a few buildings, to help with our tragic culture and our cashflow. If at all possible, while at war with Babylon, let these complete.

I think either Tatung or Hangchow should be the FP location. I see us probably expanding SW into both Spain and Babylon as the game progresses, so it'll be beneficial distance-corruptionwise there, too. Both are building courthouses but they're probably not necessary. Switch as is appropriate.

I did form a city down near Salamanca's ruins. I tried to lessen cultural overlap problems with it, as well as making sense with the rest of our cities. It will be a lightning rod during the Babylonian war, but it's fairly well stocked, including the horsie army.

The Ottomans were nice enough to road some of our northern jungle for us. That'll save some worker turns moving in to chop it down. Or will help them when the city flips....

I recommend completing Construction one way or another (probably partial research and then buy the rest) before making peace with Babylon, so we can get some medieval techs off of them. I have seen Babylonian MDI and I'd be surprised if they don't have Chivalry, so be a bit wary with a war declaration. Do take time to gas them and/or sign in Spain (but 20 turns of war may well be longer than we want) before going after cities. And I would raze and replace. There's one settler waiting to do just that....

We're still at least 5 and probably more required techs behind. We're catching up (I got 4 techs on my turns), but we need to keep the pressure up. Or remove the cultural pressure on our cities, depending on the circumstances. :)

Who's next?
Arathorn

Well, I got it last night and went to bed before I finished the 10 turns, figuring a real player would pick it up by then and I could compare how I had done. Seeing as how no one else has taken it yet, now you'll have to suffer with what I did; hopefully I didn't screw you experts up too badly ;).

preturn: Osman is willing to give us Construction for spices + 44gp, and I happily acquiesce, putting us in the Middle Ages. I take science to 0% and relegate token Feudalism research duty to a Tatung citizen, leaving us with +24gpt. I also note Osman has no iron yet, perhaps we should smite him soon before he acquires it?

1010: Mass troops (4 archers, 5 horse, both armies, and the elite* sword) outside the Nippur border.

1020: Move stacks onto Nippur's doorstep. Declare war on Babylon.

1030: Begin the attack on Nippur. We lose 2 horses (1 elite) taking Nippur and gain 5 slaves when we raze it, moving a settler in to resettle the same spot next turn. The Spaniards want 18gpt for an alliance, which would also commit us to a 20 turn war. I decide to go it alone and hope for a nice quick settlement from Babylon. I loan Beijing's wheat to Canton, to speed it up in reaching size 7.

1040: Found Anyang on Nippur's still warm ashes. A Babylonian knight takes out our elite* sword (who led the attack on Nippur). Need to take out Akkad and it's ore ASAP.

1050: Kill a few invading units. Beijing finishes marketplace and switches to Horsemen (who we can hopefully upgrade soon). Set some workers to connecting Anyang and Macao.

1060: Tsingtao flips to the Ottomans, doh! Nanking finishes marketplace and switches to spearmen to fill in some defensive gaps. Give units some R & R to prepare for the push to Akkad.

1070: Bleah, I notice I forgot to pop a settler and do so in Hangchow, losing 7 shields (I suck :p). The troops heal up for the push to Akkad.

1080: The troops begin their push into enemy territory towards Akkad. I have us spread pretty thin inside our borders (the Spanish border is manned largely by warriors.. :p), so hopefully no one tries to take advantage until we have Akkad safely in hand.

1090: Troops approach Akkad.

1100: We pop the great Qianlong while defending Beijing from a rampaging pikeman! I suggest we secure the Macao area after we take Akkad and use him to rush the FP there. Our troops move next to Akkad, ready for the next player to get reamed by the RNG ;).

I spread us very thin inside the borders, so hopefully Akkad falls quickly, the Babylonians offer a generous settlement, and no one sneak attacks us in the meantime :). Next!

1020: Move stacks onto Nippur's doorstep. Declare war on Babylon.
Did you declare war inside of Babylon's borders? If so, our ability to sign RoPs is destroyed.

Did you declare war inside of Babylon's borders? If so, our ability to sign RoPs is destroyed.

:eek: Yes, I did. I wasn't sure when you asked, so I opened the game to see what terms Spain would give for RoP, and it was "They would never accept such a deal."; it takes 15gpt to get them to accept it. I guess someone should have snagged the game before I got around to finishing those turns :blush:.

Well, carry on! Who needs RoP anyway? :)

Better this than breaking our trading rep.

EDIT: actually our RoP rep seems to be OK as they still accept it with gpt. So it's probably just their empire is much bigger than ours. Normally after you trash RoP AI wouldn't do it again.

I have some extra time available, so "Got it" :)

1100 (0)
Switch a few builds and hit next turn

1110 (1)
Attack on Akkad
Horse army kills pike -2hp
Sword army kills pike -6hp
E. Horse kills longbow and razes the city

Catapults redline knight which becomes visible, and it is destroyed at a cost of a vet horse.
Swordsman produced at Nanking defends our iron supply, and the leader moves to rush the FP at Macao (minimal flip risk, none after border expansion).

IBT- A regular babylonian knight blitzes through a couple of our catapults, and defeats our vet spearman on a mountain at the same time (A C3C change I was not aware of) a settler is captured and the knight is uninjured.

1120 (2)
We pillage the Babylonian iron source, and I invest 72g in rebuilding the settler. Troops are moved to cover vulnerabilities, we recover our settler workers, and the knight is bombed for 1 hp loss.

IBT- The wounded knight moves around my blockade and captures Anyang by a path I did not see (I’m still a bit rusty here). This triggers an increase in war weariness and a riot in Beijing. I scroll ahead to prevent most of the other riots. The FP completes in Macao, offsetting the gold loss due to lux tax.

1130 (3)
I recapture Anyang with the sword army, but it is down to 2hps. Defeat a potentially pillaging spear in our backlands on flat ground for the loss of a vet sword.

IBT- We lose a spear and horsemen to attacking knight and longbow outside Samarra (this is getting embarrasing).

1140 (4)
Healing and movement

IBT-We lose a horseman on a mountain to a Babylonian knight who redlines

1150 (5)
Babylonian knight is destroyed by our elite horseman. A newly minted sword kills a bowman near Beijing.

1160 (6)
We destroy a Babylonian longbow and move to defend from a bowman attack in the rear

IBT- The bowman attacks our spear at Canton and is defeated, war weariness hits hard and I scroll ahead to prevent further rioting. The Ottomans complete Leonardo’s workshop, but their visible defenders are still spearmen.

1170 (7)
I purchase Engineering for 23gpt + 200g from the Vikings for the sake of improving unit and worker movement. I probably should have done this at the beginning of my turns since no brokerages would ever be possible without more contacts. Anyway, I hold off on further trades as it appears we may have a shot at capturing the Great Library. The Armies and a stack of horsemen move on Samarra, and a Babylonian longbow is destroyed

1180 (8)
The two armies singlehandedly take Samarra without loss from 2 pikes, capturing 3 catapults. A spearman is bombed and destroyed at no cost.

1190 (9)
Another longbow is bombed and destroyed. Babylon appears to be out of iron requiring attackers.

1200 (10)
A spear is bombed and destroyed, and our stack of horsemen and the sword army begin the advance on Babylon and the Great Library.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/lotr15_Babylon.JPG

Because Babylon usually builds bowmen for defense early, the capital may not be as heavily defended as usual for an AI capital as they upgraded to longbows. The region around Beijing is almost insanely undefended, but since I built mostly horsemen we are safer from sneak attack than it might appear. A stack of ~15 horsemen + the two armies + the catapults and miscellaneous other units should be sufficient to take Babylon in 4-7 turns. Some workers are currently improving Spanish territory, but by next turn our borders will expand to include these tiles. Note that Beijing has started the Heroic Epic, Macao contains our FP, and workers are irrigating over some grassland mines to allow growth in desert cities.

A touch of insomnia tonight, so I’ll take it for a spin.

Pre turn – We’re down all visible techs to everyone…. big surprise. The good news is that the most advanced wonder being built is Cops, so the gap has narrowed.

IT – Samarra deposes, but it was empty anyhow.

1210 ad (1) – Retake Samarra with horse army vs reg pike. Unfortunately, they still have iron. See a vet pike defending Babylon.

IT – See a Babylonian knight.

1220 ad (2) – Shantung built on some ruins. Doesn’t claim the iron right away, but I worry about the flip risk otherwise. Units in place for assault on Babylon.

IT – Archer on mtn retreats reg knight.

1230 ad (3) – Babylon: cats go 2 for 3, showing at least 3 pikes in defense. Sword army defeats reg pike, -3 hp. Army defeats 3/4 pike, -5 hp. Vet horse defeats 2/3 pike, -2 hp, Babylon falls. Elite horse defeats reg bowman, -3 hp. Elite horse loses to reg longbow, -2 hp and promotes. Reg horse wins and promotes vs same, -1 hp.

IT – GL does it’s job. We get: Lit, Mon, Mono, Theo, Chiv, Inv, Educ, Gun, Bank, and Astr.

1240 ad (4) – We will have salt when Hangchow’s borders expand in 1.

Ourparity with known civs:
Ottomans – parity
Babylon – We’re up Banking and Astronomy
Spain – We’re down PP
Vikings – We’re down Chemistry.

IT – Osman demands spices. I cave.

1250 ad (5) – Sword army kills reg knight and pike. Move ministack on Eridu.

IT – Canton deposes. Something has to be done about those Ottos soon….

1255 ad (6) – Cats go 2 for 3 at Eridu. Army goes 2 for 2 and Eridu burns.

1260 ad (7) – Move troops towards Nineveh, including a few riders.

IT – Babylon deposes, no units there. Ottos start Bach’s.

1265 ad (8) – Elite horse retakes Babylon. I should probably just raze it, but the tourism might be nice…

IT – HE completes in Beijing.

1270 ad (9) – Cats go a dreadful 1 for 5 at Nineveh. I attack anyhow. Army wins vs reg pike, - 6hp. Rider wins vs reg spear, -2hp, triggers GA. Takes two riders to finish the 2/3 pike, but Nineveh burns anyhow.

IT – Babylon flips back again. Obviously, this city isn’t going to be worth the hassle.

1275 ad (10) – Sword army goes 2 for 2 against reg pikes in Ashur, and burn the city, revealing a source of dyes. Vet archer retakes Babylon and lays the torch to it. Chinan immediately founded near the ruins.

Recap – Babylon is nearly persecuted to the northern wastelands. Spain makes for a juicy target, since they don’t have iron or salt. However, something must be done about the Ottomans. I can see at least three cities that have flipped, and now Nanking is on the clock. There is a settler down near Chinan that was headed for the dyes. Most of our offensive forces are west of Eulbar. After the next interturn, they should be mostly healed. I was able to at least scrape up a token defender for most cities. Though very expensive at 120g, I upgraded a handful of riders to help with the offensive.

So who wants the clean up in aisle Babylon?

Babylonian lands (or former)

MINE! ALL MINE!

LOTR15 - Open Door Policy

1275 AD (0)
:lol: I didn't realize I was claiming the game in a GA.

OK, no one we know is Industrial but they are all pissed. :lol: We are only at war with Babylon, although Izzy only has 4 turns before she'll have to pay up.

We are giving Spices to Osman for 14 turns, so no attacking him.

I think we just took the Great Library elevator, although Chemistry is in play. We actually have a fairly lousy military.

1280 AD (1)
No combat, just healing for an assault in a couple of turns.

1285 AD (2)
Still just moving. Assault is in 2 turns.

1290 AD (3)
Babs drop off an LB. After circling for 3 turns. :rolleyes:

Whack said LB but the Heroic Epic appears to be broken. :(

Found a city that claims Dyes for us.

1295 AD (4)
Capt. Wonder is back as our Catapults get nothing but the bottom of the moat.

Don't care ... Attack! Lose 2 Riders and a Sword, but capture Eulbar. Set to rushing settlers out of it.

Peace with the Babs for Uruk. Their capital went to parts unknown.

Fire all clowns, but cannot turn lux down to 10%. Short-rush a couple of Riders.

1300 AD (5)
Resistance ends in Eulbar.

Build Embassy with Vikings.

Position to bring the pain against the Spanish next turn.

1305 AD (6)
The Spanish will not hand over Silks to maintain the peace, so I get-to-stepping. Seven Riders against Spears in Murcia: 5 Wins later we burn the city and claim 4 slaves. Steal two more workers and drive a couple of Riders deep to harass. Then push Sword Army towards Madrid to put a further spanner in the works.

1310 AD (7)
Found Ningpo. Win two combats vs. Spain.

1315 AD (8)
Adrift on the Oceans of Eternity. (Lost turn somewhere in here.)

1320 AD (9)
Apparently the Ottomans and Vikings are throwing down, 'cause Ragnar wants our help. PASS!

Stack is assembled for next assault; Sword Army creating a ruckus around Madrid.

1325 AD (10)
It costs 2 Riders, but ... uhh ... some size 8 city is leveled. :blush: We claim 3 more slaves. Then a Settler-Horse pair is whacked, netting two more involuntaries. Finally an intruding Archer is offed.

Final Notes:
GA will end on the next player's turn. No idea when. Keep burning Spanish cities, they lack both Iron and Saltpeter. I can't say they have any tech for us, but if we smack them hard enough we can just take cities in Peace. (Those cities will have no Spanish citizens.) Goal for the war is Silks.

There is plenty of cash for the next player. :D

Unfortunately, I don't think Arathorn is going to get what he wanted out of this game. We appear to be the only ones with a native supply of Saltpeter, and we're no longer so far behind technologically that the Ottomans will definitely have Rifles before we have Cavs. This should be the last war we have to fight to our south, from here on the (quite possibly Sipahi-less) Ottos are the target. Sucks to be them.

The blue circles denote our 2 Armies. The red circle is the Rider stack. The yellow circle is a settler I was moving to the yellow dot. Feel free to stick it anywhere. :p

IIRC, the GA will end about turn 9.

I too thought Arathorn probably wanted this to be more difficult.

Maybe 150 turns next time? :lol:

Got it. Can't resist a GA.

preturn: I establish embassies with Ottoman and Babylon:

Ottoman: size 7, 13spt, 4fpt, 4 lux, only horses, 4 spearmen, building a bank in 6 turns.
Babylon: size 4, 7spt, 0ftp, has a clown, only iron, 3 pikemen, building a settler in 3 turns.

IBT a spanish LBM appears from north.

(1)1330AD: Rider kills the LBM. I upgrade spear to musket in Beijing. Sword army moves next to Barcelona.

IBT another pair of pike/spear appear from north.

(2)1335AD:

@Toledo: 2 riders retreat, but other two kill spearman and we capture it.

Upgrade two more spear.

@Barcelona: sword army kills two reg pikes and lose 4-hp.

Diplo: we now know India and Celts. Celts has Music Theory, PP, Navigation and Economics. India and Vikings have Chemistry in addition.

Iron to Vikings for Chemistry+Navigation+Contact with Hitties+21gpt.
Chemistry+horses to Celts for WM+furs+PP. India and Vikings have Metallury. Vikings also has Democracy.
I try immediate steal on Vikings and take Democracy.
Democracy to India for WM+Metallury+7gpt+64g.

Research to Military Tradition in 9 turns with +38gpt.

Embassy with India: size 9, 15spt, 3 lux, all resources, 3 spearmen, builing WE in 1 turn.

I intentionally didn't trade with Ottomans to make sure we'll kill it before it gets Sipahi.

WM+Contact with Babylon to Hitties for gems. It turns furious with us - our bad rep spreaded around? :lol:

We are at tech parity. We only lack Economics and Music Theory, but we don't need them anyway.

IBT The two spanish units left our territory after we moved a musket on top of the horses. FP city builds a regular rider. :sad:

(3)1340AD: Switch Beijing to library in 2, hire a scientist, and lower lux to 0. Income jumped ~40gpt.

Spain now has musket!

Sword army kills musket and pike, and we capture Barcelona with Sistine Chapel!
One rider retreats but two kill pikemen and we raze Santiago.
Silks are now online!

I raise sci to get MT in 7 turns still with +38gpt.

Ottomans get Chemistry.

WM to Ottomans for WM+15g.

(4)1345AD: more movement. Attack Seville next turn.

IBT Barcelona disposes us, but we have no unit in it.

(5)1350AD: We lose a vet rider and an elite rider against a reg musket, but the 3rd elite rider kills it:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/LOTR15-1350AD.jpg

An army is formed immediately. MT is in 4 turns so we'll reserve it for cavalry.

IBT A few Spanish units show up in the north. Palace expansion.

(6)1355AD: ZZZ

IBT Barcelona disposes again. Beijing and Nanking riot.

(7)1360AD: 5 cats hit one pike. Horse army kills two pikes. Rider loses but redlines the last pike. Another rider finishes it off. Seville is razed.

Kill a few longbow in the north and lose an elite archer.

(8)1365AD: India has Physics.

IBT Military Tradition in, palace expansion.

(9)1370AD: upgrade a bunch of riders.

IBT our GA ended.

(10)1375AD: cav army formed and moved next to Madrid together with other units.

I think we can make peace with Spain after taking Madrid.

There is an Ottoman settler/spear pair trying to settle. I'm blocking it.

If we've captured any Spanish cities, I would only make peace if the Spanish capital jumps up North after Madrid falls. Otherwise the next player gets to prepare (and probably start to execute) the avalanche vs. the Ottomans.

Cavs vs. Spears ... :devil2:

Got it, and done.

preturn: It's about time Hangchow and Tatung grew up a little, so I switch them to Aqueducts. I switch a few cities from musket to cav production.

1380: Position more troops next to Madrid. Set worker fleet to chopping down some trees to cheapen these temples in the hinterlands. Upgrade a couple troops.

1385: Beijing builds marketplace -> cav (4 turns). It looks like we can get it down to 3 turn cavs once it hits size 12.

We begin the attack on Madrid:
Horse army kills vet musket, -5 hp (I mistook it for the cav army :p).
Cav army kills vet musket, -4hp.
Cav army kills vet musket, -0hp.
Cav army attacks vet musket (-2hp) and retreats (eep!).
Cav kills vet pikeman, -2hp.
Cav attacks reg pikeman (-1hp), and retreats.
Sword army kills reg pike, -4hp.
Sword army attacks reg spear (-1hp), and retreats.
Cav attacks reg spear (-2hp) and dies.
Elite rider kills 2hp musket, -2hp.
Elite rider kills 2hp pike, -0hp, and produces General Tso! I can't resist and rename the unit Chicken :P.
Horse army kills 2hp spear, -6hp.
There is a 1hp spear left, so I take a gamble and attack with our now 3hp horse army, which is our last available attacker and...
Madrid is ours! We capture Pyramids, Mausoleum, Colossus, Sun Tzu's, and Copernicus.

We sue for peace with Spain, taking them for everything they have, which is WM, TM, 30gpt, 46gp, Economics, and Music Theory.

We upgrade 3 horseman in towns that suddenly have barracks. Samarra switches to building a settler.

1390: Troops take some R&R in Madrid. Rush a worker in the starving Madrdid. Palace gets a little taller.

IT: Ottomans found Zonguldak in our territory, despite our escorting troops. Oh well, the defending spearman shouldn't pose much of a threat once we declare war in a few turns anyway.

1395: Begin moving troops to the Ottoman front, leaving behind a garrison of 3 cav in Eulbar to act as defense for the fledling western half of our empire. Buy an aqueduct and a temple.

1400: More troop movement.

IT: Babylon signs onto the Viking's war against the Ottomans. Ottomans manage to acquire saltpeter somehow, as the visible spearman in Xinjian turns into a musketman.

1405: More troop movement, war next turn.

1410: We declare war on Ottomans. We conquer Xinjian, Canton, Tsingtao, and Ankara while razing Izmit and destroying the new Zonguldak settlement near Madrid. We have no nationals left in Xinjiang any more, but I feel we have to try keeping it just on basic principles :p.

1415: Reposition troops and heal. Some temples rushed.

IT: Indian settler lands at the ruins SE of Barcelona, escorted by an elephant. We still have 3 turns of peace treaty with India before we can attack without ruining our rep, although I don't know how much that matters with everyone furious at us anyway.

1420: Sinop razed. Antalya has Leonardo's, so I risk keeping it. I haven't seen any new muskets or pikes (just a bunch of spears), so I think Osman either lost his offshore suppliers of ore and saltpeter or is just plain broke ;). Courthouse rushed in Madrid, which should allow it be half uncorrupt as long as they have WLTK day; it has significant tourist revenue.

1425: Salonika and Uskudar razed; we suffer our first casualty for the war (a cav).

summary: Old Spain is almost completely within our borders now, excepting the Indian settlement made this turn near Barcelona (which has an elephant defending it). There is also a Babylonian settler escorted by a pikeman wandering around near Toledo: we should be able to give it the boot in a few turns after the temples expand. Ottoman borders no longer touch ours at any point, and our troops stand poised to attack Istanbul. We have resisters in Ankara, Xinjiang, Antalya, and Tsingtao. There are 2 settlers, one having just arrived where I think it should settle in old Spain, and another near the Ottoman border, which I suggest we use to secure some wine. Our populace is about to become a bit disgruntled in 2 turns when our fur and gem trades expire, assuming we aren't able to renew them.

Boy, that didn't take long. I really thought 100 turns of nothing would take longer to overcome, considering how important the early game really is. I guess not. We're completely out of the hole and can easily rock the whole world.

My hope was that our early neighbors would be quite strong, since there was land for four civs but only three claiming it. Semi-true but not really. Too many good warmongers against AIs that fought early (shame on them! :)) and the Great Library in our neighborhood. The early hole-digging was nice, but we're in a dominant position now.

I'll see this through to completion, but it's pretty easy mop-up at this point.

Rule change: Play 10-20 turns, as you choose.

Arathorn

Next challenge would propably be to take it to at least 0AD... on a pangaea it would be worse, the AI's would trade a lot more.

Should we declare the game won? It's now just a regent game. :)

Where are all the players that complain there aren't SG games for beginners? Now is a chance. You can also participate in a LotR game. :D

Missed the mark some and mis-posted

Grimjack

I hate leaving a game unfinished.

Got it.

Arathorn

It's amazing how much/little one can get accomplished in 20 turns.

Early: Fought the Ottomans. Captured many of their cities. Vikings got in my way, too, so got them to declare on me, so I could clean them off our shores, too. Did some tech deals to get some petty cash and some luxuries.

Middle: Finished off the Ottomans. Fought the Babylonians, too, as they were in the way. Finished off the Babylonians. Captured most of the Viking cities on our continent. Did a 2fer to get us into the Industrial Age for nothing more than Iron and under 100 gold. What a deal!

Late: Made peace with the Vikings after cleaning them off our continent. I couldn't get a city on their continent, as much as I would've liked, and Berzerks, even in the AI's stoopid hands, are dangerous. Declared on and finished off Spain in about 3 turns. Researched Steam Power and began the railroads. Laughed in Mursilis's face when he demanded Spices and then signed the Celts and the Vikings up to fight him for us. Did fill a couple ships to send that way. Worked on the railroad.

I only got two MGLs total. One rushed the Pentagon very early. The other become a nearly-empty army being sent to the other continent.

I had to deal with probably 7 flips, as our culture is still somewhere between pathetic and non-existent. Our military is still inordinately thin -- good thing the AI is so badly off as well. Many infra projects got completed and a number of troops were built, too. Losses were light in combat, although I lost one/flip. Fought a few muskets, a lot of pikes and spears, a couple berzerks, several longbows, a couple MDI, but nothing serious.

India has Nationalism, but I still think we should declare on Ghandi soon and clean the last non-Chinese city off our continent. Then, we can relax and race for space or we can continue to :hammer: on our foes.

Anybody else interested? The game is easy at this point, but I thought there was some interest in an easy regeant game... True? You can't screw things up badly enough in 10 (or even 20) turns, so feel free to play! Anyone!

Arathorn

Curious, I see three views, but no posts. :hmm:

I guess I do get to go for another stroll with it then. I'll either have the turns up in a couple hours, or 24 "ish".

I hope the "ish" is OK if I get too tired to finish tonight. :)

EDIT: "ish" did indeed happen. :( I didn't realize we were just starting to railroad. Will finish my turns Friday evening sometime.

No problem on the "ish". The large empire makes turns take longer. With some pretty serious pauses between plays, you're fine. Plus, 24 hours from claiming won't expire until Friday night anyway! :)

Arathorn

Well, comp just crashed and lost this whole post, so let's try again.

Tried to basically balance filling our borders in, building some infra, making a few more units, and a few settlers too.

Hittites are about to be eliminated. Even down to their last town, they won't give up nationalism for peace. :lol:

Only got one leader, on about my third try. After that had rotten luck, including nearly losing our 10 hp cav army to a conscript rifle.

Rifles are pretty prevalent now, so much of the rest will have to be fought with armies and artys. Finished Industrialization, got Electricity, and we're now 4 turns from RP. I slowed research a bit so I would have cash to rush temples and such.

We still lack gems, and are trading for our furs. We do have sources of incense and ivory now.

We have about five cities on the other continent, with a few more settlers on the way. We have about 50% of the total land, including our entire continent within our borders.

We have a basic rail network in place, and I have started focusing on the core. Have not even worried about terraforming very much. Took me most of my turns just to get the rails to the vast majority of our cities.

Domination, Conquest, Space, and Histograph are all viable victories at this point, but dom and conquest would only require another set or two.

If I think of anything else pertinent, I'll add it in later. :)

PS - This is what I meant by the "ish". I knew a Friday night would be late. ;)

Got it. It is 12:48 am so I will play tomorrow morning, soon as I wake up.

This game is won so I thought I would set up the next player to have some fun. I played 19 or 20 turns and since I am not going to waste an entire rain forest so I can write it all out, I will give a brief log.

Trading with Celts
Nationalism/10 gold/wm for Electricity


Normal to War-Time initiated. Change almost every town to Cavalry minus a few that will complete factories soon.

Turn 2: Brennus asks to renew deals. I say no.

Turn 3: We learn Replaceable Parts. Science shut to zero now.

Turn 4: Brennus wants to renew another deal. I say no. Lux to 20%.

Turn 5: ---

Turn 6: ---

Turn 7: Take out an indian city

Turn 8: Take out another indian city. Leader created. :) We make straight up peace with Gandhi.

Turn 9 - 13: ---

Turn 14: Rush Palace in (haha forgot to write down the name...it is the city by the incense). By the way, someone should be merging workers. I know I could have, but there were too many.

We give Vikings New Yangchow for free.

Turn 15 - 20: ---

We now have 115+ Cavalry on their Continent + 7 Armies ready to go. Celts and Indians just aquired Replaceable parts, but the amount of Cavalry will win this easy. Since they only upgrade 1 per/turn, we are fine.

I hope you aren't irritated Arathon. I saw you wanted Space Race or Conquer.

There are I think 4-5 Cavalry guarding our Continent which is fine + a few muskets. I could have simply researched our way to Transports (because our 4 man armies couldn't fit in galleons, but I did the math and we are actually getting more out of the palace/free city trick).

Three things to add. Yes, Domination victory can be reached quite easily, but domination is boring.

Leave the vikings until the end or they will use their beserks and a good number of our coastal cities.

If you are wondering why I replaced the palace and gave a city away for free. When you have men in a city and give it to an AI, the men in the city get booted back to the city with a palace. Because I moved it to the other continent, it was a free-one turn move of over 100+ units.

This is a serious exploit. :nono:

Ignoring the exploit factor this is a terrible move.

This crippled our core. All of the well developed cities are totally corrupt now. Our production just fell throught he floor, and we pretty much depend on existing troops to win.

Got it {grumble, grumble ...}

So we should rush the palace back? :)

Number 1, this is not an exploit. Several SG's under the RBciv rules have used it.

Number 2, I've been playing this game since it came out. If you can't kill 3 civs with 110+ cavs + 7 armies, when India couldn't handle 10 cavs + 1 army, then you are a horrid player. This is regent and requires very little tactics.

This is a SG played using China. China is Militaristic and therefore, will get a leader back very quickly. This leader can sail back and rush the Palace back to where it was. There is no point in building cav armies when they are stuck on our continent. We could have sailed them over, but people put 4 men into them instead of doing 3, then adding the third when it reaches the continent.

If this was Diety or Sid and I pulled a stunt like this, then yes, you have the right to complain. With what we have it is about 15 cavs + 1 army per group. That is around 7 groups each taking out a city. Good luck losing with that ratio.

Ignoring the exploit factor this is a terrible move.

This crippled our core. All of the well developed cities are totally corrupt now. Our production just fell throught he floor, and we pretty much depend on existing troops to win.

Like I said before, if you can't win 100+ cavalry + 7 armies, then you don't belong even at regent level.

Hey Foresight, just take a deap breath of fresh air and count to ten, k? ;)

Amidst the strife and tumult afflicting the Ruling Elite, the intelligensia saw an opportunity.

Their secret cabal toiled outside the knowledge of the government. (MM'd cities to use as many scientists as possible.) In their second season of activity, assistance came from the their neighbors on the fjiord. The means to revolution were obtained for detailed plans of locomotion. [Trade Steam Power to Scandanavia for Communism. Hmm ... Scandanavia, rails, revolution ... it all sounds familiar.]

The pointy-heads took up arms against their oppressors for 7 long seasons. The workers were promised the means of production, but first they had to get off their asses. [Next leader will find all home continent workers automated. I have no idea what they're doing, but at least they're doing something.]

And then the Proletariat took control. Anarchy was a difficult time for Brennus as well ...


Aww crap, settler-on-a-boat. (captured his last visible city and he ain't dead yet!) I'll play one more turn to position the troops and MM the cities.

Also get 5 Palace additions in 1 turn. I guess they won't do that in Anarchy. :lol:

I whack a Celt city just founded in the Tundra, and Brennus is still not dead. Sheesh. Send all Tundra Cavs on a mad scramble and finally nail the last settler.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/LotR15_Celts.JPG

Espionage is due in 3, and there is an MGL waiting outside of Madrid to rush the SPHQ.

The next player should be able to start an avalanche on the Indians on their 1st turn. I put a lot of workers on either Shift-A or Shift-W, so just watch them scramble around. At least it prevents screen burn-in.

Doubt it can be finished in 10 turns, but good chance to kill it in 15.

The World in 1756 AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/LotR15_1756_AD.zip)

Good move to switch to communism!

Good move to switch to communism!

I will call that a great solution to a horrid palace location. :goodjob: :goodjob:

Number 1, this is not an exploit. Several SG's under the RBciv rules have used it.
Please point to them because I know Sirian would have disapproved of such a move and he wrote the RBC rules. Allow me to explain why this is an exploit. To transfer 110 troops and 7 armies requires 25 transports (at 110 shields each) for a cost of 2750 shields. Using this move transports the troops instantly removing the time required to build such a large navy and travel across the ocean where it would be at risk to attack. It also saves you the 50gpt you would be spending on such a navy in Republic, or 25gpt in Monarchy (I think this second number is right, though I rarely use Monarchy).

Most here would consider a free palace jump to be an exploit and that gives you around 400 shields for free. This is 7 times that many, with other free "perks." A clever move it is, but still an exploit, and if someone did it in a game of mine, I would likely invalidate the turns.

Number 2, I've been playing this game since it came out. If you can't kill 3 civs with 110+ cavs + 7 armies, when India couldn't handle 10 cavs + 1 army, then you are a horrid player. This is regent and requires very little tactics.
You are talking to the most experienced player in the SG community. LKendter has sponsored 70 games of his own and played in many RBC (and probably LotR) games as well. If he speaks to you about SG etiquette, it would behoove you to listen, rather than insult him.

Got it. Haven't played Communism for a long time.

preturn: lux is still 20%. I lower it to 0, and fix a couple of towns for happiness.

We have 53% land and 76% pop. Stll 13% land to grab.

I switch many cities from wealth to settlers (all size-6 towns) and cavs. Probably wouldn't matter but I just hate building wealth, and we'll need a lot of settlers.

Switch Beijing from courthouse to cav in 2 turns. We'll rush the SPHQ there.

(1)1758AD: We still have 2 turn peace treaty with India, oh well..Is there a way to stop all the automated workers?

(2)1760AD: more movement.

I set a continental rally point next to Kafa.

IBT Espionage->Medicine.

(3)1762AD: India has Corporation. I buy it with Espionage+1360g, and declare on India.

Rush SPHQ in Beijing.

Cav army kills rifle and autoraze Kolhapur.
Cav kills rifle and capture Pune.
Cav army kills a rifle and spear and we capture Dacca (size-9).
Cav army kills a guerilla and rifle and we capture Bangalore.
Cav army kills rifle and capture Punjab.
Kill 2 rifles and we capture Bodo.

At Regent the AI defense is so poor. Even size-7 cities could have only one defender.

Losing 3 cavs in the process.

IBT India kills one of our elite cav.

(4)1764AD: Keep roading to the front. Create gems colony so we have our 8th lux.

Kill 1 rifle and capture Odense.

IBT We lose one cav after it fends off a guerilla and a cav. Palace expansion. India lands a cav and an MDI enxt to Odense. Saw an India leader runs back into Bengal after battle with Vikings.

(5)1766AD: We kill the landing but lose one cav.

Kill a rifle and cav and we capture Calcutta.
Kill 2 rifles and a cav and we capture Bengal.
Kill 2 conscript rifle and 1 reg spear and we capture Hyderabad (size-9).
Kill 3 rifles and 1 cav, we capture Chittagong together with Smith's Trading Company! This is the best wonder under Communism as it decreases the maintenance cost a lot.

Cleanup some units in our territory and lose 2 cav.

Start the attack on Delhi.
17hp army kills first rifle, but drops to 1hp after killing the second.
Another army kills the 3rd rifle and we capture it.

Kill 3 rifles in Karachi and we capture the city.

(6)1768AD:
Bombay is heavily defended (about 5 units) but we capture it at the cost of 2 cavs.
Kill 2 rifles and 1 cav and we capture Molde.
Kill a guerilla and a rifle, we capture Jaipur.
Kill 2 rifles, 1 guerilla and 1 spear in Madras and we capture this city.
Lose 2 or 3 cavs but we capture Lahore and:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/LOTR15-1768AD.jpg

We are 61% land and 88% pop.

I'll heal a bit this turn and declare on Vikings next turn.

IBT Medicine->Refining. It doesn't matter any more.

(7)1770AD:
I set Refinie to max to get it in 4 turns with -114gpt. We have too much money that we can't use under Communism. Oh I did upgrade 16 musketmen to infantry too.

Found more cities. We have 63% land.

I declare on Vikings.
Our cav walks into undefended New Yangchow and our home continent is all ours.
Kill 2 spears and capture Alsund. (64%)
Kill a rifle and spear and we capture Birka.
Kill 1 rifle, 1 cav and 3 spears, we capture Reykjavik. We now control Magellan's Voyage.
Kill 2 musketmen, 1 zerk, 1 spear and 1 cav, we capture Bergen. We now control Knights Templar.

We are now 66% land.

IBT we lose a cav to Vikings.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/LOTR15-1772AD.jpg

Our score is 2201, Mao the Clever.

Nice one :D
Good job everyone who played. Try 200 turns next time Arathorn :p

On the palace jump, i consider that a major exploit. Even though this is an open SG, you still should of consulted the members of the forum before going through with it IMO. The majority would most likely have requested you didn't do it..

Speaker has already shown you the math, so i don't really have to say anymore. But nice one T_McC on the switch to communism :D

Some pictures.

We built our first city:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/LOTR15-470BC.jpg

Then we finished our "expansion" in about 900 years:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/LOTR15-450AD.jpg

We finished our war with Babylon and Spain and started the war with Ottomans.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/LOTR15-1410AD.jpg

Not before too long we wiped AI out of our continent:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/LOTR15-1500AD.jpg

Just before the war with India (Beginning of my turns):

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/LOTR15-1762AD.jpg

Domination:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/LOTR15-1772AD-end.jpg

Good job guys.

Geez Microbe, why didn't you just eliminate them? What would it have taken, 3 more turns? :p

Oh well, you all consider it an exploit and I don't. An exploit to me is one with only positive results and no minus. We had a lot of galleons which would have gotten all the cavs over in time or close to it I think. It was the army that couldn't go over. Now, by doing the palace thing, I killed our continent. That is a huge minus. So really, all I did for a positive was get the extra armies over because the galleons could have gotten the cavs over in the 20 turns.

I wasn't insulting LK by the way.

Very nice turns microbe; I really would like to try this on monarch (emperor? - may be a bit insane...).

Just to add to the exploit discussion (all below my personal opinion):

An exploit is when you are exploiting something - that sounds odd, but that is the basic idea - so there is a game feature that is there for some reason, but you exploit it; i.e. you use it for something it isn't meant to or you overuse it in a way that it wasn't meant to; or a bug that is in the game mechanics. In your example it is the feature to abandon a city and the feature that a palace will respawn if you lose your capital.

Without a look into the programmers minds, it should be easy to tell, that abandoning a city was not meant to move a palace and the idea that the palace is moved when you don't have your capital anymore was not meant to willingly abandon it. It was just overlooked that you can actually "free-jump" your palace that way.

Same would be ressource denial, ship chaining, etc. What I always think about is: Is this an intended game feature or not. If I am unsure I ask in the SG thread, if it is accepted by the sponsor and/or the majority of players or not.

You could call it a skillfull move (whether it was in this case or not) in a private game or a competitive game environment where it is accepted (like gotm or hof for example), but it stays an exploit and as of my limited experience exploits are out of question in most SGs or should be at least discussed before using.

Just to be clear on what we're talking about:

The "Palace Jump Exploit" is when you abandon your Capital and your Palace magically appears elsewhere in your empire. Can be easily manipulated by the player, if he so chooses.

What was done in this game is a magic teleport due to giving a city away. If you have units in the city, they have to go somewhere so the game sends them to your capital. The fact that sometimes your capital isn't even on the same continent can make this quite powerful. I think this was a bit of lazy programming, as a more logical solution would be to send your troops to the nearest tile not under the control of another Civ (either your territory or neutral), like is already done when another civ gives you the boot order.

It would have been nice if this hadn't happened (as it really cheesy), but in the end the only difference it made was that I tried for conquest on my turns instead of domination. We could have easily achieved the domination limits with the cities on hand if we wanted to rush some culture. Either way the game had 20-25 turns to the end.

So I think the take-home lesson is: Don't try to learn anything from the HoF games. :lol:

- Thanks for helping finish this up. I really don't like games left dangling, even when they are clear wins.

- Moving the capital, and gifting a city to get free movement is, in my mind, very clearly an exploit. It's outside the designer's intention and clearly gets something for nothing, in my opinion. Simply gifting a city and getting troops moved to your capital in its original location is less clear in my mind, but it's not something I would do. This has been done in RBC games in the past, I'm fairly sure, as Foresight said (check out one of the Viking games in RBC13, as I recall).

- I've run about 16 games in the LotR series now and this is the very first time I've had a turn that I felt, at the time, was exploitive. That's an amazing run. I don't plan on codifying a ruleset any time soon. Thanks to all the players for keeping honor/gameplay high in this series. "Maximal ethics" (trying to do as much as possible) instead of "minimal efforts" (avoiding a list of "do not"s) are definitely in play.

- In the larger picture, though, the exploit barely mattered. The game was won a long time before. Delaying 100 turns at the very start isn't long enough. Delaying too long gives you no place to found without declaring war, which is problematic at best. Maybe a delayed start combined with passive to encourage trading? Dunno. Maybe it was just a one-time thing. :)

- Welcome to all players. I saw some more LotR newbies. Welcome to the club of the insane!

Arathorn

Okay, then I will give a sorry to everyone who participated in this SG. I consider the ROP rape, ship chaining, etc to be exploits, but I never considered this one until now. You are right, I should have asked before I attemped it. Just like in my games, I never do it until the end when I know the win is there. I don't like spending an extra 50 turns when a game can be won in 20.

I am also sorry for getting edgy. I don't like being thought of as an exploiter, considering I do whatever I can to make sure I don't. I don't even replay turns (which I know at least one person on these forums must do because no one will ever find out).

I guess the reason why I never found this to be an exploit, besides what I stated about negative/positive is I've seen it in a few other SG's and no one seemed to complain. Or in the Sid Space sg, there was already a suggestion of someone taking the city, then giving it away so their troops will be sent back to the capital for free. This is somewhat different than what I did, but still in the same mind-set.

I hope this doesn't detur anyone from letting me join their SG's because with this exploit gone from my mind, there is nothing left that I can say, "what if I used this one because it isn't quite an exploit." All the other exploits are clearly defined.