This is the first game spun off from ScoutX (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=92492&page=1) .

Roster
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/gold_jumpwings.gif Tinkez
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/silver_jumpwings.gif Tallanas
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/gold_jumpwings.gif Bede
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/silver_jumpwings.gif mtgfreak
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/gold_jumpwings.gif TedJackson
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/silver_jumpwings.gif Smellincoffee ==> up

The Start
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/scoutxc3c2.jpg

The Save
> here < (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/ScoutXA-4000BC.SAV)

Game Settings
Software: [c3c] v1.22
Civ: England (Seafaring/Commercial)
Level: Emperor
Variant: No research, ever!
Target Victory: Spaceship Launch
Map Size: 140*100
Map type: Archipelago
Climate: Wet & warm
Age: 4 million
Barbs: Raging :eek:
Specials: Regions of intense barbarian activity :ar15:
Opponents: Plenty :)

General SG Etiquette Guidelines
Please do:
Let the team know if you're going to be unable to play for an extended period - holiday, illness, exams etc.
Post a "Got it" notice or ask for a skip within 24 hours of the save becoming available (I reserve the right to skip a player who hasn't responded after the 24 hour grace period is over).
Play and post within 48 hours of posting a "Got it".
Zip up your save file before posting.
Write up a log of the events occurring during your turn and post it along with your save.
Provide notes for the next player as to the current situation and any immediate plans for the future - are those Caravels heading NE or SW? is that Swordsman fortified to heal or act as a lookout? Our forces are mustering for an attack on...
Feel free to pause and ask for advice, or simply discuss, if a situation arisies in the game and you're unsure of the best course of action.

Please do not:
Automate Workers.
Use City Governors unless the team has discussed and agreed their use.
Leave units on goto orders that will extend beyond your turn.
Make deals on your last turn. However, you should notify the next player if trading opportunities exist.
Make wholesale changes to build orders on the inherited turn without consulting the team.


General Gameplay Notes
Reputation: we will need to protect our reputation very carefully in the early part of the game. Losing the ability to make GPT deals early on would make the game much harder.

Brokering: for those unfamiliar with the term it's just a shorthand for acting as "middleman" in deals - e.g. buying a tech from Civ A then selling it on to Civs B, D & E (hopefully picking up something else of value along the way). We'll need to be on the lookout for brokering opportunities at every turn so I suggest that we use CRPMapstat (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=52902) to monitor trade opportunities. This utility offers no information that cannot be gained by slogging through the Diplomatic screens every turn, it just presents the information quickly and simply.

Keeping the AI Isolated (from each other): again, this is an important factor that will help us to maintain our position as a broker. Even if we have to devote significant resources to keeping the AI isolated we will still benefit by controlling trade. Obviously this situation can only last until the end of the Middle Ages but it is well worth the effort!

Roads: we will need every gold piece we can lay our hands on in the early game so building roads has an even higher priority than normal. We really don't want our citizens working unroaded tiles.

Still more to come... :)


Ted

Variant Rules - No Research, Ever!
This means:
Science slider must be to 0 at all times.
No Scientists may be hired (or tolerated) in any of our settlements.

We can, however, build Libraries, Universities & Research Labs for their cultural impact. The Great Library is also allowed but not manadatory (we'll just have to see how things look before deciding on this one).


Ted

Ancient Times
Worker moved to Cattle and then we settled on the spot, getting maps from the Goddy Hut. Research Slider locked at zero and we started our first build, a Curragh.

We met the Scandinavians in 3150BC but no trading was possible at this time. Minor barb activity was swiftly dealt with by our exploring Warriors over the next few hundred years.

We met a surly Arab scout in 2950BC but we still didn't have sufficient gold to exchange scientific discoveries. Things remained quiet until 2640BC, when we meet a Durch wanderer and the Babylonians. It seems that the Dutch are as backward as ourselves, The Babylonians trade us Bronze Working, Ceremonial Burial and Warrior Code for Alphabet + 2gp.

We sold Warrior Code to Arabia & Pottery to Holland in 2510BC (mainly to prevent them trading amongst themselves). 2430BC marked the arrival of our 2nd Settler and construction started on another Curragh.

Our Settler founded Nottingham on the agreed coastal site in 2190 and immediately started training a Worker.

To be continued...


Ted

marker posting...

I've created some empty posts above to make life easier :)

Rules
I'd prefer to play by the RBCIV (http://www.realmsbeyond.net/civ/eexploits.html) ruleset with one addition - Only one worker may be bought from each AI before 1000BC. Comments?

I'll add our variant-specific rules in a little while.

Summary
I'll try to keep a simple summary for lurkers (& players).

Useful Links
Although this isn't a Training Day Game I've no doubt that we'll be referring to some of the "standard" information. Collecting those references here will just make life easier for everyone :)


Ted

Looking good there!

Tal signing in...

Reporting in.

One worker per AI before 1000BC sounds ok.

Ted : Will you make the play order?

-Tinkez

Ah, forgot to mention the buying worker thing. Sounds ok to me; since we will be doing no research, we'll have plenty of cash available and we could really hurt the AI with worker buying... We'll just have to "earn" our slaves...

Ted : Will you make the play order? Yep,

but I'll leave it loose for now as we'll probably want to discuss the start (when we get it), some general strategy and set some milestones before we actually start playing :)

I'd like to alternate old hands and improvers, that should keep things moving along smoothly. If possible, I'd like either yourself or Bede to take the first 20 and get us off to a firm start.

Tal signing in... Welcome aboard Tal.


Ted

Checking in.

:wavey:
Good to see you all again, Ted, SC and Tal. And pleased to meetcha Tinkez and mtg


Ted, you want to flip the coin for lead off batter? Call it, Tinkez!

Checking in.

:wavey:
Good to see you all again, Ted, SC and Tal. And pleased to meetcha Tinkez and mtgBeen a while Bede :)

Ted, you want to flip the coin for lead off batter? Call it, Tinkez!Coin flipped :D


Ted

Hi Brother Bede :salute:

Good to be in a game that varies between people I know and new folk, and also the skill levels - looking forward to this enormously!

I've added some general gameplay notes for this variant to the first post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=92618) and the basic Variant Rules are now up here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=1967132&postcount=2).

Comments & additions welcome :)


Ted
p.s. sorry it's going up in bits & pieces but I'm trying to fit it in around work :D

Just to confirm, I have CRpMapstat... An invaluable tool for brokering, it really is! In this variant, its impact will be huge, so I highly recommend it for anyone who hasn't tried it yet.

Ted, you want to flip the coin for lead off batter? Call it, Tinkez!
Bede

Coin flipped :D


Ted

Which one to take? :scan: :scan: :scan:

One more time : :scan:

I'll take tails! Can I start or not :lol:

-Tinkez

Checking in.

:wavey:
Good to see you all again, Ted, SC and Tal. And pleased to meetcha Tinkez and mtg


Nice to meet you too, Bede!

A big wave to other also! Looking forward to play with you :wavey:

-Tinkez

Which one to take? :scan: :scan: :scan:

One more time : :scan:

I'll take tails! Can I start or not :lol:

-TinkezTails it is!

You can take 20 to start then we'll drop back to 10 turns each.


Ted

reporting in

hi all

reporting inWelcome aboard mtgfreak.


Ted

I've updated the first post with a picture of our start position. Discussion of opening moves is now underway :)


Ted

Interesting!

Settling in place results in (at least) 4 coast tiles; 4 mountains; 2 grassland; 2 BGs; one cow; 8 of those are river tiles, and it's a coastal site.

As I say, interesting. Moving the worker to the cow will reveal (at least) 3 more squares...

As you say, moving the Worker to the Cow seems to be the optimum first move.


Ted

Can we get an expert opinion on the possible results of the barb hut if we settle right down? If I'm correct, it's a tech (most likely CB, right?), 25g, a warrior, a map, or nothing...

Not even any way we can start on CB in order to get pottery, sadly...

Then again, we don't even know what Civ we are, so that's all guesswork about the techs ;)

orange = English?

IIRC we can get anything except barbs - because we have no units with a defense value > 0 - or perhaps a Settler (it would depend on when the one we have is actually destroyed by the game during settlement)

If anybody knows for sure then pipe up :)

<Edit> We can't get a city as the GH is on a mountain. </Edit>


Ted

this could be ottomans(?) or english
however, since it is on the coast i suspect it is the English

EDIT: After looking at the color closer, i think cant be the ottomans but could be the dutch

EDIT (again): after looking at the civ3 scenario editor, the ottomans, the dutch, and the english share a color with this, whether its primary or secondary

The variant says nothing about picking a research path, just that we can't spend money or hire scientists, so, pick a tech you don't want, open the F1 screen, make sure the slider is at 0, build the city, pop the hut, and there you are.

I need to know the nation before making any recommendations on builds, etc. Given the variant one thing we might want to consider is a farmers's gambit and, and if the civ is expansionist and seafaring, build scouts and boats until we have opened up the map.

A note on trading strategy: we need to know two counter parties before we make any trades for tech, then try to exploit the opening knowledge to its fullest. The risk is that the two other parties will meet on the interturn so we need to have as much map knowledge as possible in order to guess their movements (scouts and boats, again).

Can't wait for the weekend...

Which one to take? :scan: :scan: :scan:

One more time : :scan:

I'll take tails! Can I start or not :lol:

-Tinkez
Tinkez
Tails it is!

You can take 20 to start then we'll drop back to 10 turns each.


Ted

Cool! It was well worth the scanning effort :cool:

I'll take my turns at the weekend after the save is released and we've discussed a little of our strategy.

As you say, moving the Worker to the Cow seems to be the optimum first move.
Ted
This is definately the first move. I would like to settle on the spot as that'll allow us to build a curraghs in the future. Can't remember do we need alphabet for curraghs? If we reveal a juicy spot to the south after the worker move, then the plans may change.

The worker starts with a road and irrigation on the cow tile.

I guess the build order would be (if possible) : Currragh, warrior, granary, etc. Opinions?

-Tinkez

If we are the English, a curragh can be first, sure :) A civ without alphabet, though, and it's no boats for us until contact!

If we are the English, a curragh can be first, sure :) A civ without alphabet, though, and it's no boats for us until contact!
Actually, it would be quite cruel from MB to create us a map with no contacts on the starting island and when we're not able to do research, that would be a REAL challange :eek:

-> Let's assume we have alphabet in the beginning OR a larger landmass with possible contacts. :thumbsup:

-Tinkez

Actually, it would be quite cruel from MB to create us a map with no contacts on the starting island and when we're not able to do research, that would be a REAL challange :eek:

-Tinkez

:shudder:

Don't say things like that, I'll have nightmares!

Might as well post a big picture of a clown or something! :aargh:

I've added some SG Etiquette Guidelines to the first post. Think of them as lubrication to keep the game running smoothly rather than as commandments handed down from on high :)

Actually, it would be quite cruel from MB to create us a map with no contacts on the starting island and when we're not able to do research, that would be a REAL challangeNo... mad-bax wouldn't be that cruel... would he? :D


Ted

A note on trading strategy: we need to know two counter parties before we make any trades for tech, then try to exploit the opening knowledge to its fullest. The risk is that the two other parties will meet on the interturn so we need to have as much map knowledge as possible in order to guess their movements (scouts and boats, again). I quite agree. It seems counter-intuitive but we're probably best served by delaying those early tech trades as long as possible, especially if we have Alphabet. The more (isolated) AI Civs we discover before trading the better the price we'll command for techs when we do finally trade and there's a fair chance that we'll effectively become the tech leaders for a while :)


Ted

I'm surprised at the experts. It's obvious you're not England. There are only two bars there in the picture, so you have no scout, so you're not expansionist. Ergo, you're not England.

You also won't get a settler from the hut if you settle-pop it. You need to have:
- Less than or equal to the average number of cities across the world
- No settler active or being built

If the settler is destroyed by the time the hut pops (and I think it is), you'll have one city and everybody else will have zero, so you violate the first principle. No settler possible.

I still don't think I'd move.

Arathorn

In C3C aren't the English Seafaring and Commercial?

I think there's a fair chance we get to be the Brits! ;)

Well...

Tallanas is right and Arathorn, most unusually, is wrong. England in [c3c] is Seafaring/Commercial. However, Arathorn returns to form when he says we can't get a Settler from the GH :)

Thanks for clearing up the GH issue Arathorn, I got halfway there then flunked out.


Ted

Actually, it would be quite cruel from MB to create us a map with no contacts on the starting island and when we're not able to do research, that would be a REAL challange :eek:

No... mad-bax wouldn't be that cruel... would he? :D

Yes, Mad-Bax WASN'T that cruel until he saw our speculations.... :lol: :mischief:

-Tinkez

Yes, Mad-Bax WASN'T that cruel until he saw our speculations.... :lol: :mischief:

-Tinkez

Are you saying there's some last minute editing going on?? :cry:

I can't even blame it on Monday morning or Friday afternoon. Fact is, I just got the traits from vanilla and PTW so ingrained that I can't keep up with the civs that changed traits in C3C. I'm fine with the new ones, but the old brain paths for the old traits are so well-worn, I can't seem to make new connections. Bah...getting old sucks.

Sorry for the mis-info on the one score. Glad y'all are around to keep me flying straight.

Arathorn

Old habits die hard ;)

I'm sure there must be something you can blame it on, though! The weather? Euro 2004??

If not, try my ever-faithful ruse... "Aha, you spotted my deliberate mistake! Glad to see someone's paying attention...!"

:D

btw, ill be gone for 2 weeks at the end of july for a holiday

btw, ill be gone for 2 weeks at the end of july for a holidayNoted.

Can you post a reminder a week or so before you leave to jog everyone's memory? :)


Ted

MB has posted the save files & I've linked to ours in the first post.

Take it away Tinkez [dance] [dance] [dance]

BTW we're playing as England :banana:


Ted

Just thinking out loud here:

England: Seafaring and Commercial. Know Alphabet and Pottery. Alphabet is the most valuable of the first column knoweldge, pottery is one of the least valuable.

Suggest we open with a seafarer's gambit. Two or three curraghs immediately and start boxing the compass.

Opening moves: water the cattle, then move to the BG NW of the cattle, mine, then move without roading to the next BG, as I think if we road then move through London to the other BG we lose the movement crossing the river entering the city, so it would be 2 moves to the other BG however we do it, then mine and road the BG to the NE, then road across the north side of the river connecting the improved terrain. The terrain is riverine so we retain the commercial bonus.

After the curraghs are built the next call would be granary or settler.....I'm never satisfied with how I handle that one.

The opening site is admirably defensible, but we will have to post troops outside the city because of the river until Engineering.

This looks like great fun...

Checking in - had no idea this thread existed because I usually visit my SGs via the control pane (subscribed thread) :lol:.

Suggest we open with a seafarer's gambit. Two or three curraghs immediately and start boxing the compass. I agree, on the whole, although it will depend on part what the Worker reveals when he moves to the Cow and the contents of the Goody Hut. If the Worker move leaves us settling on the spot then if the GH doesn't pop a Warrior I would suggest that we pop a Warrior in as our second build - we don't want to get caught with our pants down this early, do we?


Opening moves: water the cattle, then move to the BG NW of the cattle, mine, then move without roading to the next BG, as I think if we road then move through London to the other BG we lose the movement crossing the river entering the city, so it would be 2 moves to the other BG however we do it, then mine and road the BG to the NE, then road across the north side of the river connecting the improved terrain. The terrain is riverine so we retain the commercial bonus. Again, I'm with you in principle. It just depends on what (if anything) the Worker move reveals.


After the curraghs are built the next call would be granary or settler.....I'm never satisfied with how I handle that one. To soon to say... let's see what else mad-bax has prepared for us :)


The opening site is admirably defensible, but we will have to post troops outside the city because of the river until Engineering. Just reminding everyone the barbs are set to Raging so we'll probably want a fairly close build pattern early on.


This looks like great fun... Couldn't agree more :)


Checking in Welcome aboard Smellincoffee...


Ted

Welcome SC (do you prefer Smellincoffee, Coffee, or SC? :) )

Not much to add to the start ideas - the worker move dictates it all! I'm sure Tinkez can cope, though... ;)

Since we have raging barbarians, and "areas of regionally intense barbarian activity" whatever that means ( :evil: ) it may be an idea to consider having a second city as a unit pump, and not to go purely "paper cutout" - maybe mix in spears for city defence. In C3C, I find there is a tendency to build up a large treasury early on whilst doing a 50 turn gambit (this will be more true than ever using England, seafaring and commercial!!) - and personally I find nothing more infuriating than seeing a troupe of woolly-backed sheep-botherers traipsing through a border town carrying off all my hard-earned!

Just a thought ;)

Tal

Welcome SC (do you prefer Smellincoffee, Coffee, or SC? )


Ever since I began using this name, people invariably call me one of those. I like SC, but you can type "Smellincoffee" out if you want. Just don't misspell it or insert in punctuation. :lol:

Since we have raging barbarians, and "areas of regionally intense barbarian activity" whatever that means ( :evil: )
I think you'll find that mad-bax has (over) populated some of the (nearby) islands with barb camps :eek:

it may be an idea to consider having a second city as a unit pump, and not to go purely "paper cutout" - maybe mix in spears for city defence. I'm sure we'll build up our Military quite quickly. After all, the only ways we can gain techs are: GH popping, trade or gouging it out of our enemies - and everyone's our enemy, right? :D

In C3C, I find there is a tendency to build up a large treasury early on whilst doing a 50 turn gambit (this will be more true than ever using England, seafaring and commercial!!) - and personally I find nothing more infuriating than seeing a troupe of woolly-backed sheep-botherers traipsing through a border town carrying off all my hard-earned! Sometimes letting the barbs sack a town is the sensible way to disperse them, providing you've emptied the treasury first ;) This is particularly true with the "End of Era" uprisings.


Ted

Hmm, clearly my last post totally neglected the fact that we are on "no research"... :blush:

Having said that, the treasury will indeed be massive ;)

Tinkez, have you picked up the save?


Ted

Just picked the save, report coming in an hour or two.

-Tinkez

No worries,

Wasn't sure if you were aware that the save was available :)


Ted

4000BC:Move worker to cattle, reveal BG in S, nothing else. Settle on the spot. GH gives us maps. See 2 more GH's nearby and a wheat in S. Decide on build order based on this: curragh and then warrior. Set research to zero, net gain +5gpt
3750BC:Worker has irrigated the cow, move to NW to BG. Growth in 1.
3700BC:London grows, lux slider to 10%
IBT:London Curragh - warrior
3650BC:Curragh moves E, sees barb camp on the next isle - How surprising. I'm certainly going to build that warrior. On the barb isle there's also wines and a GH.
3600BC:Curragh spots that there are 2 wines on the next island.
3550BC:See one more GH. Total number is now 4.
IBT:Borders expand.
3500BC:I'm afraid that the curragh will be trapped between these isles...
IBT:London warrior -> curragh, london grows to 3.
3450BC:Warrior exploring, lux slider to 30%. Curragh sees gems S of London on the same island.
3400BC:Worker finished mining the BG, move to next BG. Warrior sees Incense W of London, nice :)
3350BC:Pop a GH, get warrior.
IBT:Curragh -> granary
3300-3250BC:Exploring.
IBT:London grows to 4.
3200BC:Lux to 40%. We need a MP to London.
3150BC:Curragh2 meets Scandinavia E of London. They have wC and wines hooked up. He does not want to trade (92gp+4gpt is not enough)
3100BC:Pop a GH -> 3 angry warriors :(
IBT:Barb attacks, no damage to us, promotes to a vet. Vikings found Bergen.
3050BC:Kill second barb
3000BC:Nada. Ragnarok is annoyed, doesn't want to sell BW nor WC.

That's it. Next one to go.

London will grow next turn, remember to check lux slider! There is nice settler factory number two S of London (2 wheats by a river). London will build granary in 4 turns, next settler in my opinion.

Our starting island needs exploring, but there are 2 warrior doing that. London needs military police, maybe it's worth moving the conscript warrior to London, so we can set lux slider down?

The curragh near Vikings is going southwards, the other one far south should continue exploring southwards also.

Good luck to the next player!

Save is <here> (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/ScoutXA-3000_BC.SAV)

-Tinkez

Our known world:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/ScoutXA_3000BC_Pic.JPG

Nice start - looks even more interesing!

"Got it"

Looks like mad-bax has given us a nice start :)

I'm surprised to find improved but un-roaded tiles around London. Apart from that everything seems to be coming along nicely.

Here's my first cut at a dotmap:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-3000BC-dotmap.jpg

Rather than settling where Tinkez suggests I think a better long term plan would be Blue then Green followed by Yellow. Blue only captures 1 Wheat before expansion but would allow Green, on the River and Coastal, so will be powerful in the future. Yellow will net our first lux (Incense) and Grey is Coastal.

The above is dependent on what is hidden at Red. If something special is revealed then we'll have to rethink.

Comments and suggestions welcome.

BTW Research needs to be switched away from Writing, just in case we strike lucky with a GH.


Ted

I'm surprised to find improved but un-roaded tiles around London. Apart from that everything seems to be coming along nicely.

Those tiles are unroaded because I was aiming to improve the tiles faster to get more shields to get us a granary faster. The worker is currently building a road on the mined BG. Then he should go back to cow and road that. As we are not doing any research, I thought that the shields are more important than a bit more commerce from roads.

Rather than settling where Tinkez suggests I think a better long term plan would be Blue then Green followed by Yellow. Blue only captures 1 Wheat before expansion but would allow Green, on the River and Coastal, so will be powerful in the future. Yellow will net our first lux (Incense) and Grey is Coastal.

Good plan Ted.

BTW Research needs to be switched away from Writing, just in case we strike lucky with a GH.

I forgot that you can't get the tech you're "researching" from a GH. Switch the research path to something else.

-Tinkez

Pre-flight didn't take long ;) Said "Hi" to Bill and Ben, our two warriors, and that's about it...

IBT - nothing...

Turn 1 - 2950

The southern curragh discovers an Arab scout - they are already annoyed with us :) They know BW and CB, not Alphabet, and have 10 gold... Like the Vikings, they won't even go for 108g and 4 gpt...

I attack the barbarian fortified on the mountain - otherwise, our warrior will never be able to explore. We win and promote :)

IBT - Fantastic news... Both the Vikings and the Arabs have Alphabet. I think they both must have been researching it, hence the crappy prices they were prepared to pay for it...

Turn 2 - 2900

Exploring

IBT - nothing

Turn 3 - 2850

London Granary>Settler; more exploring - the big "barbarian island" looks uninhabited by Ai civs, and has been circumnavigated - plenty of resources there, spices and lots of wines... Must be a settling/military priority.

IBT - nothing

Turn 4 - 2800

Exploring.

IBT - nothing

Turn 5 - 2750

As above...

IBT - nothing

Turn 6 - 2710

Exploring...

IBT - nothing

Turn 7 - 2670

Eploring - London to size 6, 3 happy 3 sad, settler next turn... Only bronze working available from the AIs, for all our economy. No thanks. Wish we ahd used alphabet early now...

IBT - nothing

Turn 8 - 2630

London settler>warrior; meet the Dutch, in exactly the same place as the Arabs (a curragh is back-tracking...) so they must be neighbours. He will sell us CB for 130 gold, but what's the point? Won't help us now, so might as well wait.

Other curragh uncovers Red borders, the annoyed Babylonians. They have BW, CB and WC, but *neither* of our techs... At last, a trade opportunity. Since everyone we know except the Babs have Alphabet already (and therefore can build curraghs and get contact), I trade Hammurabi Alphabet and 2 gold for BW, CB and WC. I feel we did ok out of that trade...

Our island looks rather, umm, small.

IBT - Arabia develops masonry, and lacks our WC... WC plus our economy is not enough for the monopoly price on Masonry...

Turn 9 - 2590

We have one tech on all our neighbours - Arabia has Masonry on us...

IBT - nothing

Turn 10 - 2550

London warrior>settler; note that the governor here keeps trying to use the mountain tile... :rolleyes:

Going with Ted's outline dotmap, the settler moves to the blue site. Green will be nice, red is not a special resource, so blue and green will do. Grey has two whales in its expanded border, yellow is looking good too!

Goody hut pops 3 angry Vandals - sorry!

And that's a wrap.


Good - alone on our island, but made lots of contacts; curraghs exploring well.
Bad - tech trading not brilliant, although a recovery was made.
Ugly - lots and lots of nasty barbarians...

The world, zoomed out :)

Sorry for the treble post :mischief:

I just noticed that after I acquired CB, the research path was set back from CB to writing - I missed that, which was careless, so would the next player (Bede!) take care of that please? :)

Tal

Edit - next plans. I forgot to write up something specific about what next, as it's fairly obvious - the curraghs are exploring into the blackness, one is even managing to explore 2 coasts simultaneously... The settler is in place now, so can plonk down, and the conscript can panic at the thought of being gang-banged by angry vandals ;)

Also, a new curragh is needed to explore in this direction...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/ScoutXCurragh.JPG

Edit 2 - since there are no Arab or Dutch borders visible, I thought I would point out where these guys are... The orange and pink dots indicate where I met the Dutch and Arabs. The red dots are barb camps on the barbarian isle next to our homeland...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/ScoutXdutcharab.JPG

I refuse to edit the above post again, so you guys can just laugh at my 4-posts-in-a-row nonsense :)

One final point - after Brother Bede's turns, we should have a full map of our home island. At that point, we should discuss exactly where we are going to settle, since we will need to make maximum use of it. We can even have a dotmap competition!

I am looking at it at the moment, and can see it holding at least a dozen cities, so it's not panic stations yet ;) After those dozen though, we will need map making asap!

Nice job Tallanas. Any time you can get a three-fer, or was it a four-fer, and get to parity with shirty neighbors you have a break through.

Your experience points out once more the value of rapid exploration and contact. Each contact made reduces the cost of tech to you but if the counter parties don't know each other the value of your knowledge remains high.

Thinking long term I would like to propose this strategy for our research trading. With eight nations on the map (and I think this one has a few more), buying at third or fourth and selling at fifth, sixth and seventh will net us the highest return, if it is done consistently and thoroughly. An analysis of the national traits will show us who our best partners are. We should feed the scientific nations gpt to keep them moving forward and deny to, or take gpt from, the others to keep the overall pace reasonable.

The resource and luxury distribution in C3C is another important factor but that discussion can be held when applicable.

So, MB, do I qualify for the filibuster "got-it" award yet?

Oh, yeah, got it!

I am going to leave the urban planning to others as I need to learn how to do that...

i probly wont be able to play tomorrow cause its independance day for us Yanks, and i have a busy schedule

Three new contacts? That's great news :thumbsup:

I'll have a look at the save this morning.

@mtgfreak: thanks for the "heads up", shouldn't be a problem.


Ted

I've had a look at the save and we still seem to be in a good position. :thumbusp: Tal

We have 2 native lux visible so far (Incense & Gems) and can see 2 more on the island to our East (Spices & Wines).

We'll need another Curragh or two to speed up exploration and some Spears and Archers for barb patrols. I'd be inclined to keep London producing Settlers with a Curragh, Spear or Archer between each Settler to keep the pop up.

Warrior then Worker would be my priorities for our new town. With 5 BG in the first ring we'll be wanting to improve this site as quickly as possible. I'd even stretch my neck out and suggest a Temple as 3rd build to capture the 2nd Wheat. Obviously circumstances might preclude it but it's not a bad goal.

I see nothing to change our settlement pattern from Blue, Green then Yellow. We can't see quite enough of the West to decide on where to go after that. Settling along the river to the NW of London is possible (Purple) then Grey (to complete our first ring). However, we might find something in the West to change our minds :)
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-2550BC-dotmap.jpg

BTW we can reduce lux to 30% and research should be switched away from Writing again.


Ted

Has anyone else noticed the unusually large number of gold or gems, and the general trade rich river island we have? And on a no research variant!! Bah!

Oh to be the Byzantines in a "whoever get most Scientific Leaders wins" variant ;)

Edit - sorry about the lux rate :rolleyes:

Has anyone else noticed the unusually large number of gold or gems, and the general trade rich river island we have? And on a no research variant!! Bah!

:cooool: :banana: :bounce: :D

And, thanks for the map, Ted

Here's another map, with the explored bits added. It's done with the following ideas in mind - as little overlap as possible (can't remember what the OCP calculation for this map will be...), so each city is as strong as it can be; as many coastal cities as possible.

The red city is shown on a river/coastal square - this would be nice, but for the sake of an aqueduct, one square to the right (as shown by the arrow) might be better - depending on what else we discover in that area, of course.

The dark pink dots are other possibles, depending on map clearance and volcano activity ;)

Anyway, it's mainly for discussion purposes...

i wonder if mad-bax gave us any iron on our island
if not, its probly on the other one

Nice map Tal,

On the subject of overlap: in general I'd base any settlement plan on fresh water & resources rather than a strict grid - as we're Seafaring then Coastal cities are a bonus. An obvious example of when I'd overlap (or not) is the positioning of Red (your map) which I'd nearly always place on the river even though it means missing the Fish :)

@mtgfreak: we've certainly got the terrain for Iron, we'll just have to wait & see ;)


Ted

What's the OCN likely to be on this map, by the way? initial thoughts would seem to suggest a FP build on the next island, since that way we can get two productive homelands...

Ted, I agree about Red :) Its current site is very attractive. I just don't like missing bonus resources! I must be pathologically mean or something... Mind you, as bonus resources go, Fish are the worst by a long, long way!

It will depend on how MB setup the map...

OCN is normally 20 for standard sized maps and 28 for large. So we could hope to split the difference at 24.

The only way we'll actually know is by when the Forbidden Palace becomes available :)

I'm also hoping that we can settle the Eastern island and agree, for the moment, that a Forbidden Palace in the middle of the island would seem to be a good choice.


Ted

The Other Eden, Demi Paradise (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A2150BC.zip)

0-2550BC
Reset preferences (turn animations off except for battles as my fingers work faster than my video processor).
Lower lux to 30% and reset research
Press enter.
Lucky the Conscript defeats a barb attack without injury and promotes to regular.

1-2510
Lucky moves NW into the forest.

York is founded as marked. Starts warrior.

Curragh encounters Abu's warrior. He lacks Warrior Code has Masonry as Monopoly. We have Warrior Code at second. He still won't come to the table on Masonry, but since we think he knows the Dutch Boy who has bows and arrows take his 20g for Warrior Code before Willie does and gets Masonry in the bargain. Then call a meeting with Hammurabi amd sell on Pottery for 37g.

2-2470BC
Exploring.

Lucky fends off another barb attack and moves west into another forest.

3-2430BC
Our elite warrior finds another village on the NW coast while Lucky reaches what looks like Land's End in the west.

4-2390BC
Lucky lands on Land's End and the elite warrior wakes up a bunch of wine-drinking Frenchmen (Burgundian tribesmen).

London builds its settler and starts a curragh. settler trekking to coastal estuary.

The drunken Burgundians form a huddle.

5-2350
Evade the Burgundians and vector the warriors homeward.

6-2310
Curragh sets off from London to NW Passage.

7-2270
Trekking and sailing.

8-2230
Same. Warriors are leading a lone Vandal back to our core.

9-2190
Found Nottingham on the coast. start worker.

Warriors trekking homeward. York is building a worker

10-2150
Not much to report other than incoming barbarains and a bulging treasury and nothing but Abu's monopoly on Masonry to spend it on, and if we did, no one to trade it off to. Ragnar has some cash to spend for Ceremonial Burial but I don't think he knows anybody else with the knowledge and 10 gold pieces is just not enough.

Settler is aiming for the Incense hills. Exploring curraghs are finding only Babylonians, Arabs and Vikings to the east.

Interestingly, the status screen shows England equal to the Arabs in territory and equal to the Babylonians in population. The power curve has a few interesting bumps in it as well, with our curve turning sharply up at 2150BC.

The settlement plan as outlined in Ted's and Tal's posts looks to be working well at least to this point. If we don't find an Iron Range I would be very surprised, but then, knowing MB maybe I wouldn't be. :mischief:


Once the Burgundians beat themselves to death I would boogey a warrior to Land's End to act as a lookout for visiting firemen from that direction, and another one north to clean out any new arrivals and for the same purpose.

And I agree with Ted's plan to build a temple in York. It will become a growth monster and keeping the Tudors happy (those cantankerous Sons of York) will become expensive.

We still need one more curragh to explore westwards.

This royal throne of kings, this scepter'd isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,
This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in the silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall,
Or as a moat defensive to a house,
Against the envy of less happier lands,
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,
This nurse, this teeming womb of royal kings,
Fear'd by their breed and famous by their birth,
Renowned for their deeds as far from home,
For Christian service and true chivalry,
As is the sepulchre in stubborn Jewry,

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A01.jpg



Notes on the neighbors:
Dutch-Seafaring and Agricultural
Viking-Seafaring and Militaristic
Arabia-Religious and Expansionist
Babylonians-Religious and Scientific

Looks like the Babylonians are the ones to cultivate, at least so far. Become Hammurabi's bosom buddy and make it so he can't live without us. Once trade routes are open he should be our first choice as a luxury trading partner as that will keep his research rate up.

The Vikings are axe wielding hooligans once they reach the Middle Ages. I would ship them iron, if we have extra, and maybe even if we don't, encourage them to go to war with anybody but the Babylonians, and then once the deal is over, declare war on them but let a closer ally do the fighting. That will delay their entry to the MA and the availability of the berzerk, and may even put them down for the count.

I don't know the Dutch or the Arabs well, so it is hard to prepare a strategy for our relationship. The Dutch have an excellent MA defensive UU, the Arabs a fearsome offensive one, so I would hazard the guess that they will research as fast as they can to the required knoweldge to get them. That means they will probably bypass the optional techs like literature and take the shortest path to Feudalism (Dutch) and Chivalry (Arabs).

The Arabs probably won't give up Masonry until the Pyramids are built, but might pay well for Monarchy and horses and the Dutch will have more interest in Republic, Map Making and iron (once they enter the MA).

As stated above, the island to our east is a high priority, but we need Map Making to claim it.

On the FP discussion I don't have much to add (another of my not so good things, like settlement planning).

Rota check:
mtgfreak ==> up
TedJackson
Smellincoffee
Tinkez
Tallanas
Bede

Looking good Bede :thumbsup:

I'll update the roster & the summary.


Ted

Solid stuff Bede :)

I sense plenty of opportunity to whip out the old Bard in this game! :D

Edit - any chance of a screen shot of the Land's End area?? :)

I sense plenty of opportunity to whip out the old Bard in this game! :D


Makes you go blind that does.

Sorry - it was so obvious, but I couldn't resist. ;)

:rotfl:

I don't know what you mean, though! :mischief:

This thread is NOT going to degenerate into one of those "Mine's bigger than yours! Na-na-de-na-na" spamfests :D

Oops :blush: ...

That's from Richard the 2nd not Richard 11" :D


Ted

As requested:

Land's End
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-2150BC-LandsEnd.jpg


Ted

Ooh, nice!

Tal,

Looks as if sticking to settling Yellow then Purple then Grey is indicated.

Are you going to attempt another dotmap or do you want me to give it a shot?


Ted

@MB and Ted,
:rotfl:
You guys are awful!!

Merry Wives of Windsor coming up next!!

Merry Wives of Windsor coming up next!!As a late programme change, we're pleased to announce that the previously scheduled item will be replaced by "Typsy Tartes of Tottenham" for your (salacious) viewing pleasure :)


Ted

well, here goes

Turn 1: Exploration
IBT: Nothing
Turn 2: London: Warrior->Settler, Lucky kills fort barb warrior in forest and goes to 1HP. I wait on moving settler up to hills in case PRNG doesnt like me. I buy masonry from Abu for 11gpt and 290g (had to use it sometime)
IBT: nothing
Turn 3: Lower lux rate down to 10% and change a Londoner to an entertainer for some xtra income.
IBT: Nothing
Turn 4: York: Worker-> Temple
IBT: Lucky kills yet another barb warrior, still doesnt promote
Turn 5: Move settler to incense hills. Ragnar has writing and wont trade even for all our treasury, 21 gpt, and both techs we have over him.
IBT: Discover Arabs building Pyramids
Turn 6: Hastings is founded on incense hills
IBT: Lucky wins again but doesnt promote
Turn 7: Move warriors southward to look for barbs down there
IBT: Nothing
Turn 8: London Settler->Settler, moving Settler to Fish spot
IBT: Nothing
Turn 9: Exploring
IBT: Nothing
Turn 10: Realize that Hastings wont grow for 5 turns after worker will be done, so i switch to spearman to avoid shield loss

Ragnar still wont trade writing for everything we have, no one else has techs we dont though

I dont know how to do screenshots, so if some1 else could get one

Tal,

Looks as if sticking to settling Yellow then Purple then Grey is indicated.

Are you going to attempt another dotmap or do you want me to give it a shot?


Ted

Agreed on the order... Feel free to update your own map - I'm no map-hog ;)

Edit - just been looking at the save... I know the Arabs are wxpansionist, but wow! :eek: Good job taking over that island, Abu...

Also, I notice that you mention an entertainer, Mtgfreak (btw, what is MTG??) - I usually feel that with so few cities, a rise in the lux rate is made up for by getting the food and shields/trade from using the entertainer as a worker. Sometimes, though, it can be a tough call!

Solid turns...

Got it

@mtgfreak: from looking at your turnlog I see 2 less than optimum choices:

1 You spent our treasury & some of our future income on Masonry (a tech that is worthless to us). The only techs we need at present are those that lead to Map Making. Why do I say that? Because Map Making will allow us to build Caravels & colonise the island to our East thus increasing the size of our empire and our potential income. One side effect of your deal will probably be to make Arabia's position as "Top dog" unassailable for a long time to come.

2. Appointing an entertainer should only ever be a "Last resort" as thay are parasites, consuming food and offering nothing in return but a transitory and illusionary happiness. At this stage of the game, expansion is still our most important factor. An entertainer merely stunts London's growth. It would have been much better to leave the lux at 20, 30 or even 40 percent and keep London's population growing at the maximum possible.

I hope you take these comments as constructive and understand why I've made them. Feel free to ask if any of the points I've made are unclear.


Ted

Our Core
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-1750BC.jpg

The Red arrow indicates where I think the Settler is heading.


Ted

I think your comments were well put, Ted. Some interesting points about entertainers that I had to learn the hard way as well, in SGoTM2.

The settler is indeed heading to that site - I think the next should go to the purple site, then green - we could do with hooking up our two luxuries as soon as possible now. A road to Hastings should be a number one priority.

JM1A-1750BC

Pre-flight checks...
Fire clown at London
Raise lux to 20% (income plummets from +7gpt to +4gpt)
Nottingham switches from Worker to Warrior
Hastings switches from Spear to Warrior

Tech Report
Arabia (378gp) up Maths
Babylon (0gp) down Masonry
Netherlands (0gp) down Masonry
Scandinavia (10gp) up Writing, down Masonry & Ceremonial Burial

Objectives
Expand our empire
Acquire Writing

Press button...

1 - 1725BC
Currraghs explore
Workers move to NW York - mining & road to Hastings
Worker mine (W Nottingham)
Settler SW

IBT
Hastings Warrior - Worker
Vikings start Colossus :(

2 - 1700BC
Lux 30% (London grew)
Workers mine
Settler SW
Curraghs explore

IBT
London Settler - Warrior

3 - 1675BC
Settler heads NW (Purple)
Settler arrives at coastal river (SW)
Lux 10%
Netherlands & Arabia have Iron Working

IBT
Arabia demands 23gp - I say "Off with you! May your camels run dry"
Arabia declares war on us

4 - 1650BC
Curraghs explore
Canterbury founded

IBT
London Warrior - Settler

5 - 1625BC
Curraghs explore
Settler NW
Workers mine - road

IBT
Dutch start Pyramids

6 - 1600BC
Curraghs explore
Settler NW
Worker road
Babylon has Iron Working
Buy Iron Working from Babylon for Masonry + 112gp
Buy Writing from Scandinavia for Iron Working, Ceremonial Burial + 17gp
We have Iron on a mountain between London & Nottingham :)

IBT
Hastings Worker - Barracks

7 - 1575BC
Coventry founded (Purple)
Workers road
Curraghs explore
We can't afford to establish embassies just yet

IBT
Nottingham Warrior - Warrior
Babylon starts Pyramids

8 - 1550BC
Curraghs explore
Workers work

IBT
York Temple - Settler
Arabia starts Oracle

9 - 1525BC
Curraghs explore (including suicide run)
Workers work
Lux 0%

IBT
London Settler - Warrior

10 - 1500BC
Settler heads for Grey site
Curraghs explore
Workers work

Notes
I wasn't expecting Arabia to declare as we had an ongoing gpt deal with them. But that's Civ's AI for you :(

We're Up Writing vs Arabia, Netherlands & Babylon; Masonry vs Scandinavia and down Maths & Mysticism vs Arabia.

I deliberately haven't traded away Writing. It could be best used when Arabia sues for peace to winkle Maths & Mysticism from them. Whatever happens do not trade Writing to the Dutch as they're on the same landmass as Arabia.

We can afford Embassies now but should probably build up a little nest egg first.

Our Curraghs are still exploring and I took a short suicide run to discover another island.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-1500BC-Curragh2.jpg

This Curragh is heading anticlockwise around our island.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-1500BC-Curragh1.jpg

This Curragh is heading to the unexplored tip.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-1500BC-Curragh3.jpg

Keep a sharp eye open for Sea channels as when Map Making is discovered we'll be needing to explore them ASAP.

The Settler is heading for the Northern (Grey) coastal site.

On the city front:
London should build another Settler after the Warrior.

York's borders will expand in 3 turns bringing the second Wheat into play. Remember to mine the second Wheat not irrigate it. This is a priority Worker task best dealt with by the 2 Workers 2NW of York once they finish their current task. I've not projected the moves forward but York will become a 4 turn Settler Factory as soon as a Granary is built. We could probably sneak in 1 or 2 forest chops to speed that Granry's completion :)

Hastings is building a Barracks (inland city with nothing else to worry about) and the Incense road will complete at the end of this turn.

Nottingham could start another Curragh after the Warrior (perhaps keeping it close to home ready to upgrade).

Canterbury might also be a good place to build another Curragh (sailing it to Nottingham or London ready for upgrading).

Coventry's next build should probably be a Worker. Connecting our cities and improving our tiles is even more important in this variant.

Dotmaps and save follow...


Ted

Dotmap 1
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-1500BC-dotmap-1.jpg

Dotmap 2
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-1500BC-dotmap-2.jpg

I prefer dotmap 1 even though Cyan & Black are quite cramped. The Red site South of York captures both Fish which will allow us to work the mountains later. It looks a bit odd now but I think it will work out OK :)

Comments & suggestions are (always) welcome.

The save is > here < (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-1500BC.zip)


Ted

Nice work, Ted.

2 is neater, but 1 is better for such a small island. Not absolutely convinced by the black square, as there is only one tile that belongs to that city only... All the rest would be shared. Once we get up to size 12 cities, black is ripe for abandonment!

Good trading too, I think it is important to stress how we need to keep writing to ourselves for a while :)

Not absolutely convinced by the black square, as there is only one tile that belongs to that city only... All the rest would be shared. Once we get up to size 12 cities, black is ripe for abandonment!There's always a trade off :)

Black lets us work some more river tiles in the short term but could well be abandoned further down the line.

Roster update:
Smellincoffee ==> up
Tinkez
Tallanas
Bede
mtgfreak
TedJackson


Ted

Nice turns Ted!

I'm also quite surprised that Arabia declared, but that does not harm us at this point, maybe it'll harm only them as they build more military and therefore do not focus on research that much -> others will catch up and give us more trade opportunities.

About the city placement: Map1 looks good, I agree on maybe later abandoning the black site, but it'll be a good city for a long time. I'll just throw one question here:

The red spot city on the bottom right corner of our island. If we build it there, it's true that we can work on the two fish, but we'll also leave three grassland tiles out of reach from all cities. Is that really what we want? Maybe building two cities on that corner on following locations:

1. from the red spot two squares NE.
2. from the red spot two squares NW.

This will make Canterbury more crowded, but also would allow us to take full advantage from the two fish, both resources and the three grassland tiles that would otherwise be unused.

What does the team think about this corner of our island? :confused:

Comments are welcome of course.

-Tinkez

The red spot city on the bottom right corner of our island. If we build it there, it's true that we can work on the two fish, but we'll also leave three grassland tiles out of reach from all cities. Is that really what we want? Maybe building two cities on that corner on following locations:

1. from the red spot two squares NE.
2. from the red spot two squares NW.

This will make Canterbury more crowded, but also would allow us to take full advantage from the two fish, both resources and the three grassland tiles that would otherwise be unused. You're right, I considered this option but liked the future fast growth offered by the 2 Fish site better. After I'd fiddled around to get the 2 maps, I'd quite forgotten about the alternative for Red and so forgot to mention it :blush:


Ted

Just to comment further, I would go for red on a tile two NW of its current spot, and then a city on the little island promontory ting - less crowded, and it only wastes one grassland tile, which we can probably deal with ;)

Edit - normally I wouldn't be bothered about the intial 24 hr "got it" period" but I notice that SC hasn't posted to the thread for a long time...

SC! Are you there? :)

Edit 2 - for your viewing pleasure... The black X is our one lost tile. Otherwise, I think this would work very nicely as a trade city.

I didn't spot that option Tal,

well done :)


Ted

Good eyeballs, Tal and Ted. I need to get glasses that superimpose the city outline on everything....

Good eyeballs, Tal and Ted. I need to get glasses that superimpose the city outline on everything....It's the walking round with my head tilted to one side that I can't handle :D


Ted

The city placement is good with the small island used, nice point. I guess we all agree on the city placement on the starting continent now.

Now we just wait if SC shows up? :confused:

How long should I wait if there's no "got it" from him?

Edit: PM sent to SmellinCoffee

-Tinkez

Consider this a got it, although I need to study the thread to see what's up. Mafia has been hogging my attention since Sunday afternoon. ;)

Mafia has been hogging my attention since Sunday afternoon. ;)

:lol:
What till HalfLife2 and/or Doom3 get released. I have a feeling it's going to be real quiet around here......

Consider this a got it, although I need to study the thread to see what's up. Mafia has been hogging my attention since Sunday afternoon. ;)

:ar15:

So how about a Mafia :bump:...

Apologies to Ted for usurping his prerogative, but it was an opportunity I couldn't resist. :mischief:

I apologize for the slight delay, but I had to take care of some pressing RL buisness involving college.

Inherited Turn - 1500 BC
Nothing to do here. I notice we're at war with Arabia. An equal peace treaty is not possible.

Turn 1 - 1475 BC
Move settler toward the Grey position north of London. Curraghs explore.

Turn 2- 1450 BC
Galleys explore. Go back to Arabia. Abu has The Wheel, Mysticism, and Mathematics over us. I can get a peace treaty, mysticism, and the Wheel for writing. Sounds good, but let me check the others. The Netherlands will give us Mysticism, the Wheel, and 194 gold for Writing, so I don't think that's such a good idea. But, I can't forsee Writing getting us MORE than this based on my experience in selling it, so I'll go ahead and see what I can do. If I make a mistake, so be it. I can get griped at and perhaps learn from it. So, I go ahead and make the trade with the Netherlands. I can now get a peace treaty with Arabia for writing, in exchange for 175 gold. I'll go ahead and try that.

Netherlands demand 46 gold. I have no idea what the agressiveness of the Dutch is set to, but I'm not going to tempt them.

Turn 3- 1425 BC
Do some more exploring and the like.

Turn 4- 1400 BC
Found Warwick.

Turn 5- 1375 BC
York's settler is done. Heads for the red spot (Gems). Workers start to hook up our spices.

Turn 6- 1350 BC
Exploring.

Turn 7- 1325 BC
Settler in London is done. I'll start moving him east; the next player can decide which spot on the dotmap he wants to settle. Two of our curraghs, having exhausted all other possiblities, depart the coast for less-safe seas. Greeks complete Collossus.

Turn 8- 1300 BC
One of those curraghs spots coast. Vikings demand Mysticism. I'll give gold but not techs. We tell the Vikings to shove off, and off they go.

Turn 9- 1275 BC
Newcastle founded on Red spot. One of our curraghs gets in the coast. Spots the borders of Greece. Our other curragh spots what could be the borders of either Persia or the Hittites.

Turn 10- 1250 BC
The Alabama sinks one tile away from meeting Persia/Hittites. The Montgomery is in range of Greece, the next player can contact them and trade if possible. The Intrepid is being moved north- the next player can attempt to contact Persia/Hittites using the path the Alabama took, or forge another...

Settler fortified in Hastings, waiting for an escort from London, a spearman. The next player should be able to start moving them on turn 3 of his set. Nottingham working on temple (23 turns) to get the fish. Are we planning on hooking up our iron, by the way? Just curious.I know some people like to delay, preferring warrior upgrades..

Vikings and Babylonians down a few techs; Arabia UP one (Math) Netherlands even with us.

I've had a quick peek at the save and the most important point to note is that the Vikings have Map Making! It will cost us an arm and a leg but...

It might be worth waiting until we make contact with Greece (or whoever is sickly Green) before trading for it but certainly no longer as we want to colonise the East island ASAP.

Good turns SC :thumbsup: Writing for peace was exactly the right way to go. Bad luck with that long suicide run :(

One question: you say our Workers start to hook up Spices. Where? :confused:

Roster
Tinkez ==> up
Tallanas
Bede
mtgfreak
TedJackson
Smellincoffee


Ted

No gripes from the monk, SC. Well done on the peace deal and the trade with Willie. Taking the money first is usually a sound idea, and anytime you can get two techs and cash for one, you're ahead. In effect Willie paid you 19g for a peace treaty with Abu.

On the deal with Map Making waiting for the next contact is sound, as they may already have it and now we are buying at third instead of second; if they don't, we can afford it and we can get it back from the rest pretty quickly.

Oops, Incense. I've been playing this game for almost a year and I still get my luxes confused. :lol:

Got it. Will play tomorrow.

-Tinkez

Pre-Turn: Newcastle was founded on a different spot what I thought was planned. I wake settler and move him towards cyan spot. Lucky moves from mountain to meet the settler next turn. One regular warrior goes scouting for possible barbs from Coventry. Vikings would need a lot of stuff for MM. Wait for green contact first. Hit enter.

1225BC(1):We meet the Greek. They have horseback riding and math up on us, we have writing. They have 7 cities and 97 gold, dyes and furs as a luxury. We could now buy MM from Vikings, but currently we do not have settlers ready for settling the next island. We need a harbor for upgrading the curragh being produced in Warwick. Set pre-build for harbor in Canterbury. After some thought I think that we do have to get to the next island as soon as possible, because there are a lot of goody huts there. We have warriors, so let's get those there. Therefore I do following: Trade writing+45gp to math with the Greek. Then trade MM from vikings for masonry+mystiscm+295gp+8gpt. Did not want to spend all of our cash reserves and gave gpt instead. Change Nottingham from Temple to Galley. Whip that galley ready, one citizens dies in the process.

1200BC(2):Oxford is founded. Rise lux to 20% as London grows and I load one warrior (Hunter) to our new galley. MM Hastings to produce barracks in 1 turn for the cost of growth.

IBT: Greek ask us to leave

1175BC(3):Build an embassy with the greek. They are building pyramids, due in 31turns. Intrepid sails to the ocean in hope of seeing new civilization.

1150BC(4): Unload spearman to next isle on top of GH->angry warrior :( Make RoP with Greek in order to help our curragh movement and get 32gp on top of the deal.

IBT: The barbs do not attack our spearman. He's trapped as I unloaded Hunter on other spot.

1125BC(5): Intrepid reaches other coast and spots yellow and pink borders. Intrepid is still on sea, so hope it does not sink... *Crossing fingers*. Load trapped spearman back to galley.

IBT: GRRAAAGGH! Intrepid sinks!! DAMN! :mad: :mad:

1100BC(6): Nothing much. Move Hunter and spearman next to GH's. Cross fingers again.

1075BC(7): Pop both GH's. Barbs appear from both of them. Damn with my luck. Greek have discovered Polytheism.

IBT: Spearman wins against 2 barbs and promotes to veteran. Hunter dies against first barb.

1050BC(8): Load first settler to galley in order to colonize the next island.

IBT: Spear wins again against a barb, no promotion :(

1025BC(9): MM London and York to grow and produce settler in 1.

1000BC(10): Liverpool is founded on the next island.

That's it. Good luck to the next player. There are a couple of trades available : Math to vikings for 390gp (did not trade as that did not help us). MM+40gp to greek for HBR+Polytheism. This might be good but greek may have contact with the yellow and the pink. If traded, we might lose chance for being in the middle of the trades. Unfortunately we have only one curragh out there exploring... one galley will be ready next turn though.

The save is here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/ScoutXA-1000_BC.SAV)

-Tinkez

Sounds good Tinkez! Glad we got to the next island...

I'll get to this tomorrow...

A couple of remarks:

-There are two ready settlers on our main island. They can be either transported to the next island, which is my preference, or can be used to settle our own island. The next island should be settled before vikings do that, therefore I would head there and fill our island afterwards.

-There is also a vet archer ready to be dropped to the next island for some barb hunting. With an spearman it would be a good barb hunting pair.

-Liverpool should start on a harbor immediately as we need to connect both the horses and the wines. We have a harbor coming up on the main island in a couple of turns.

-If someone has time, a dotmap for city placement on the second isle would be nice...

Good luck Tallanas!

Tinkez

Pre-flight - Hmm, not having seen the save yet, I now realise that Newcastle was founded on a different spot... So the question is, is it ever worth re-founding a city? As it stands, we miss out on 2 plains and 3 grasslands squares. The new island looks nice by the way, and we should try to come up with one agreed upon dotmap, to avoid confusion in the future :)

I don't normally like changing builds when I inherit a set of turns, but I swap York from barracks to settler... :blush: Hastings has a barracks, and can produce all the units we'll need.

IBT - Hastings warrior>archer; Warwick galley>temple(for whales)

Turn 1 - 975 BC

Curragh finds pink borders, but no contact. Move the archer to the new island, spearman discovers another barb camp en route to the prime land near the river.

IBT - Germans build Oracle; London settler>settler;

Turn 2 - 950 BC

Curragh meets French at Besancon; They have Polytheism but not mapmaking, no luxuries and 10 cities. No real deals to be done, but it will make Poly cheaper when we do buy it... The settler/archer/spear team move out from Liverpool.

IBT - Canterbury harbour>temple; spear defeats barb attack; Arabs start Temple of Artemis, as do the Greeks.

Turn 3 - 925 BC

Some military movement, some forest chopping with workers.

IBT - nothing

Turn 4 - 900 BC

French and Greeks must have contact, since they are land neighbours. Unfortunately, the curragh cannot contact Yellow any time soon, so I may have to sell Mapmaking to the French and Greeks now. Between the two of them, we get Polytheism, HBR and 100 gold. Not great, but not awful...

IBT - Dutch start Lighthouse

Turn 5 - 875 BC

Oh the vagueness of Civ map reading. The French and the Greeks are not land neighbours after all... :rolleyes: However, not much was lost, as by the time France got mapmaking, it was at sixth...

Some worker and military moves...

IBT - London settler>settler; Hastings archer>spear; Oxford temple>granary;

Turn 6 - 850 BC

Meet the Germans, who are Yellow! They are annoyed to see us, too... Such a pleasant race... However, they are backward, lacking Maths, Mapmaking, HBR and Polytheism; they have dyes, furs and only FOUR cities.

We now have four settlers on the new island, I will produce a first draft dotmap later on...

IBT - nothing

Turn 7 - 825 BC

Archer clears a barb camp, but is redlined in the process.

IBT - nothing

Turn 8 - 800 BC

Usual, worker moves and military shenanigans..

IBT - Spearman beats off a barb attack; Vikings have researched or bought HBR and maths... :hmm: Who did they meet? - tempting to sell them Maths for their huge bankroll...

Turn 9 - 775 BC

Dover settled next to spices... Spear and settler move towards horses. NO!! Ragnar is already there!! :gripe:

He just signed his death warrant, I think.

IBT - Coventry rax>spear; Liverpool worker>harbour;

Turn 10 - 750 BC

Desperation measures called for - Ragnar's settler has moved west, so our spear escort attacks a barb to the east, wins and moves there with the settler - it's now a race, though Ragnar has the advantage.

Some minor moves, and that's it... Over to Brother Bede...

End notes - as you can see, Nottingham is rioting - unfortunately, on the last turn, it grew to four and went from one happy, two content, to one happy, one content, two sad... :rolleyes:

Here's a mini of the known world...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/ScoutX750mini.JPG

And here's a first draft dotmap for the island. Note that I have only done the first ring, since I doubt we'll have many culture buildings here soon. Personally, I would recommend building military units rapidly, attacking Ragnar and trying to farm a Great Leader, then rushing a FP at either Liverpool or the grey site below...

Also note that the dotmap only covers the north half of the island...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/ScoutXdots750.JPG

Also...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/ScoutX750deals.JPG

I'm not the boss of this game but... I haven't used CrpMapStat before.

How is it that babylon shows as having the whee and Mysticism for sale? Because if you don't have these techs, you have no right to know that other civs have Poly or HBR.

Am I missing something?

That's techs to sell them...

We are way ahead of them. Techs that we can't see (i.e. two ahead of where we are) would not appear on that utility at all.

Edit - to make this clearer, CrpMapStat doesn't show you anything that you could not find out yourself, either by trawling through every diplomacy dialogue every turn, or by manually checking every city every turn for happiness and border expansions. The utility just takes the pain out of this, and lets you concentrate on the fun stuff.

I use it because I find the diplomacy screen unintuitive and fiddly. In SGs, I would either make more mistakes without it, or would delay the game if I tried to do it all manually. I don't think either would be fair on my team-mates.

Ouch: I assumed you were behind in tech. Not ahead. :eek:

Ouch: I assumed you were behind in tech. Not ahead. :eek:

You're forgiven :) It is after all, a no research variant!

Just goes to show what happens when you pit human brains against AI "brains"

Also, see edit above for a better explanation... ;)

Tal

Good moves from both Tinkez & Tallanas :thumbsup:

Looks like our first war will be with the Vikings :)

Roster
Bede ==> up
mtgfreak
TedJackson
Smellincoffee
Tinkez
Tallanas


Ted

Will go to war tonight, maybe.

Any suggestions on Newcastle?

Newcastle?

Lift and drop ;)

JM1A 750BC to 550BC

The complete turn log was lost when I fumble fingered the save, but here's the gist:

Consoilidated the East Island using the dotmap locations provided by Tallanas, with one small exception, moving the town on the NW corner 1 tile NE.

Ragnar's settler pair ended up flitting around in the north, then headed south so we claimed the coastal hill and grassland tiles, no problem. I popped a GH full of Vandals to put some barbarians in their face and to impede their southern progress. Ragnar also landed a settler pair in the northern tundra of the home island but there are some warriors handy to watlz with them.

On the home island there is a settler on the black spot, and another in the far western town heading for Land's End. Newcastle was disbanded and moved to the sand spit on the same turn the town on the spot NW of the rubble was built.

Opened embassies with a lot of people to get a better handle on who knows whom. This grid is the result:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Grid.gif

I also did a lot of map reading and discovered a likely looking place for another sizable island and dispatched a galley towards it. I also found a Hittite border and the Montgomery is sailing toward it along the coast of France.

I opened RoP's with France, Germany and Ragnar to ease the ship travels and to get Ragnar favorably disposed towards us, as about the middle of the set Abu tried to extort tech from us, I refused and he declared war. Hired his close neighbor Willie of the Wooden Shoes as an ally for 15gpt and hoped he would either use the money to research something useful, or save it so he can use it to buy stuff from us. Ragnar's spear and setler are heading south on East Island towards Abu's borders down there, if they survive the barb trap. Check the diplomatic screen every opportunity and as soon as Ragnar meets Abu, hire him on our side too.

There has been no change on the technology front other than the Greeks learning Currency. Abu and Ragnar had money but no new technology, so I made no deals with them as we don't need the money and I would rather trade tech for tech at this stage, as we have only cash to offer Greece for Currency and he doesn't want to trade. The embassy investigations revealed that most of the neighbors were at 60-80% science with the exception of Ragnar who is , or was when I opened the embassy, at 100%.

Ragnar built the Big Light Bulb and Maya built the Pyramids during this set. Most everybody else is working on the ToA or the Maus Haus.

As for the homeland cities, once we get one more town down, in addition to the two settlers almost in place it may be time to go to worker production in London and York, warriors everywhere we have barracks. Hook up the iron once we have ten or so vet warriors available and upgrade to swords.

Do we want to start planning for a Great Library build? I'm thinking why not wait for somebody else to build it then take it away from them so we can use its effect for the more expensive MA technologies. Timed right and as long as we don't buy Education we can use it to slingshot all the way across the MA and into the IA. (Microbe pulled it off in CVN1 with a suicide mission and got the Romans out of a horrendous technology hole caused by a mod with lowered corruption. It was in that game I learned that corruption is our friend as we can manage it and the AI can't. With reduced corruption the AI has an empire from the beginning that churns out science like Communism or Democracy).

I've attached a couple of pictures showing the exploration paths and the likely location of another landmass.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1AEX~2.png

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1AEX~1.png

got it, will play in the morning

Looking good Bede :thumbsup:

Just two small points for mtgfreak: the taxman at Hastings can be fired and there's a new border to be investigated South of Argos:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-550BC-Contact.jpg

Good luck


Ted

Pre turn check: Fire the taxman at hastings, it grows in 9

Turn 1: London Settler-> Settler, Hastings Warrior->Settler, Liverpool Worker -> Worker, Settler founds Exeter on pink spot, workers mine near york, archer kills barb

IBT barb kills archer

Turn 2: Brighton Worker-> worker, Norwich worker->archer, move archer to exeter, Coventry Warrior-> Settler

IBT: Fortified archer in exeter kills barb

Turn 3: Moving around

Turn 4: Warwick Temple-> Galley, found Cambridge on Green spot, could get wines and 370 from Scandinavia but realize wines is 6 turns from being hooked up

Turn 5: York Settler->Settler, Reading Worker->Archer, crack the whip on leeds to finish harbor, found Gloucester on yellow spot, contact hittites

IBT: Barb dies to warrior, Vikings found Molde on worthless tundra on home island

Turn 6: Hastings Settler-> Settler, Oxford Granary-> Settler, Leeds Harbor-> Spearman, find iron on secondary island

Turn 7: London Settler-> Settler, get 2gpt +180g for horseback riding from dutch, Get currency from Greece for 1550g + 2gpt, build embassy with babylon for 55g

IBT: Vikings found Alesund on secondary island near spices

Turn 8: Got maps from goody hut

Turn 9: Dover Worker->Archer, see dutch city on secondary island

Turn 10: Road to iron finished, York Settler-> Settler, Warwick Galley-> Galley, found Bristol on black spot in home island

Vikings have construction and are willing to trade it for currency, dutch have construction also

Tallanas, MTG is a trading card game

Ah yeah, now I get it - Magic, the Gathering, right?

Good turns too. I checked out the save, and it looks like the settling is going well on the second island, and the map making looks good also. Now we just need lots of military...

Just checking above - is that right 1550 for currency, or was it 150?

@Tal,
190g for currency at monopoly is not possible. When I checked Greece's price it was more than what we could raise even with over 1000g in the treasury. 1590g is about 2X value.

Buying at monopoly for cash when you don't have counter parties with techs and/or cash to make up the difference is commercial suicide. That's why I suggested trading tech for tech with a little cash thrown in on either side depending on the relative values. (BTW, you can get an approximation of knowledge values by cranking up research to the max and multiplying the turns required by the income delta from 0% to 100%.)

220g for HBR from the Dutch is about right given our position with it but I would rather have waited for them to have used the 15gpt we are paying them to fight the Arabs to research something else which we then could have traded for HBR.

Trading Currency for Construction will recover only half the investment. Can we get cash from the other guys as well? As I recall the situation the only people with cash were the Vikings and the Arabs....

Looking through the CrpMapstat screen it appears we can get close to recovery by peddling everthing we know, starting with the Vikings, then the French, then Sumeria, the Hittites and ending with the Dutch. Germany and Babylon are so broke they don't even get invitations to the party. (These island maps must be really hard for scientific nations that aren't commercial.)

Got it


Ted

Team,

I will be heading at Saturday morning for a work trip for a week and a half. I'll have Internet connection most of the time, but if the game is moving fast, I might not be able to react quick enough when my turn is up. I can play on my laptop during my trip. I will check the forums whenever possible.

-> I can be skipped if needed until 29th of July.

JM1A-350BC

Pre-flight checks... OK

0 - 350BC
I'll need to switch quite a few builds as I only see 7 sites to settle and we currently have 4 Settlers + 5 under construction. We also need a Harbour on East Island ASAP and some Swords.
Richmond switches to Warrior and hires taxman (cheaper happiness)
Lux 0%
Nottingham switches to Settler (pop control)
Liverpool switches to Harbour (multiple benefits & can pop rush sooner if it switches now)
Cambridge switches to Worker
Gloucester switches to Worker
Hastings switches to Sword
Oxford switches to Barracks
Sell Currency to Vikings for Construction + 292gp
Sell Currency to France for 136gp
Sell Currency to Sumeria for 134gp
Sell Polytheism to Hittites for 109gp
Sell Polytheism to Netherlands for 93gp
Upgrade 2 Warriors @ 60gp ea

IBT
Germany declares war on Greece :)
Nottingham Settler - Spear
Hastings Sword - Sword
Richmond Warrior - Warrior (MP)
Order restored at Richmond
Vikings start Temple of Artemis
Greece starts Statue of Zeus
Hittites start Temple of Artemis

1 - 330BC
Settlers head for sites on East Island
Settler boards Galley at Nottingham
Settler lands on East Island to the Southeast of Richmond
Ships explore
Workers work
Arabia, France & the Vikings have Monarchy (All 3 are in Anarchy)
Sell Construction to France for Monarchy + 7gp (all she had)
Liverpool whips Harbour
Revolution! [i]Have to do it now as Arabia, France & Vikings are in the same boat and no sign of CoL or Phiolosophy.[/b]
We draw 3 turns of Anarchy - not bad considering the size of our empire
No Clowns needed!

IBT
Liverpool Harbour - Spear
Richmond riots - must have misread the faces :blush:
Netherlands start Great Wall

2 - 310BC
Settlers press on - one lands next to barb camp :(
Workers work
Ships explore - Curragh spots dark Red border
and transport troops & Settlers
Richmond hires taxman
Exeter hires taxman
Norwich hires taxman

IBT
Game crashes to desktop :( - reload & replay
Greece wants MA vs Germany - No thanks

3 - 290BC
Leicester founded (dispersing barb camp)
Carlisle founded
Settlers advance
Workers work
Curragh makes contact with Byzantium (annoyed) - they are down Masonry, Writing, Mysticism & HBR

IBT
Byzantium asks us to leave - we comply
Leicester ransacked by barbs for 42gp
Enter Monarchy :)
France starts Hanging Gardens

4 - 270BC
Vikings are in Monarchy (avg)
Arabia Monarchy (we're weak)
France Monarchy (avg)
Greece Anarchy
Sumeria Anarchy
The rest are still Despotism

Richmond & Norwich fire taxmen
Ipswich founded
Ships explore
Workers work
Upgrade 2 vet Warriors

IBT
Coventry Sword - Sword
Brighton Worker - Harbour (Fish & Whales)
Vikings start Hanging Gardens

5 - 250BC
Land Settler
Ships explore
Workers work
Gloucester hires taxman

IBT
France asks us to leave - I comply
Sumeria & Greece sign MA vs Germany
Settler killed by barb
London Settler - Barracks
Reading Warrior - Barracks
Greece starts Hanging Gardens
Athens (Greece) completes Temple of Artemis
France cascades to Hanging Gardens & Great Wall
Sumeria cascades to Hanging Gardens
Sumer (Sumeria) completes Hanging Gardens

6 - 230BC
Horses online :)
Galley meets Portugal (annoyed) - down Monarchy, up CoL
France, Greece & Portugal have CoL
Establish Embassy with Sumeria (53gp)
Establish Embassy with Byzantium (70gp)
Establish Embassy with Portugal (65gp)
Establish Embassy with Hittites (59gp)
Establish Embassy with Germany (76gp)
Sell Monarchy to Portugal for CoL
Buy MA vs Arabia for Polytheism from Babylon

IBT
Cambridge Worker - Harbour
Vikings start MoM
Arabia starts Great Wall
Mecca (Arabia) completes Great Wall
Greece cascades to SoZ

7 - 210BC
Spices hooked up
Portsmouth founded popping GH for Literature
Ships explore
Workers work
Vikings & Arabia have Philosophy

IBT
Hittites & Sumeria sign MA vs Germany
York Barracks - Market
Canterbury Granary - Settler
Birmingham Harbour - Galley
Gloucester Worker - Warrior
Vikings start MoM
France starts MoM

8 - 190BC
Ships explore - contact Ottomans (annoyed) who're down Maths, CoL, Lit & Map Making
Workers work
Dover hurries Temple (200gp) - Birka (Vikings has expanded border and we don't want to lose our Spices)
France has Philosophy
Buy Philosophy from France for 276gp
Establish Embassy with Ottomans (78gp)

IBT
Viking Galley spotted in the North
France & Hittites sign MA vs Germany
Nottingham Worker - Worker
Hastings Sword - Horse
Dover Temple - Spear
Norwich Spear - Barracks
Bristol Warrior - Worker

9 - 170BC
Ships explore
Workers work
Greece has Engineering but we can't afford it

IBT
Viking Galley arrives NE Molde - we may lose the race to the last site on our continent :(
Warwick Harbour - Spear
Oxford Barracks - Worker
Exeter Spear - Barracks

10 - 150BC
Ships explore
Workers work
Still can't afford Engineering

Notes & save follow...


Ted

Notes
I have a plan to grab the Iron hill on the East Island:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-150BC-IronPlan.jpg
Simply sail the ship all the way through & land the 2 Swords S of the Iron Hill. There's a Settler under construction at Canterbury and a Galley waiting to transport him over. You can wait for the Settler to disperse the barb camp or use the Swords to mop them up.

I think we're going to lose the race to the last site on our homeland. But it gives us an excuse to build up our military and go to war with the Vikings.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-150BC-Settler.jpg

The workers are mainly concentrating on improvements at York as this is our most powerful city at present. The team that has just chopped could road (1) and mine(3) the tile they stand on.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-150BC-Workers.jpg

We still have some exploring to do and the last AI to find. Here's our intrepid explorers.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-150BC-Curragh.jpg http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-150BC-Galley.jpg

We have a monopoly on Literature, which we should hang onto as a bargaining chip for Republic unless we get a spate of AI entering the Middle Ages. At present only Greece has Engineering so it's well worth waiting until he trades it around before buying in.

There are quite a few wars in progress and I roped Babylon into our war with Arabia as they're close neighbours. We'll need to attack the Vikings fairly soon. Certainly before Chivalry allows them to build Beserkers.

The save is > here < (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-150BC.zip)


Ted

Eventful turns. :thumbsup:

IIRC, Berzerks come with Invention (archer upgrade and longbow replacement), so anything we can do to keep Engineering out of circulation is a good thing, or at least out of the hands of the Vikings.

Nice of Ragnar to build training camps for us. Too bad he didn't join in against Arabia.

Took a look at the dipomatic screen. It is odd that a seafaring nation with the GLight apparently only knows the closest neighbors :hmm:, though looking at the map he has villes not all that far from the Greeks (only about 10 sea squares between Karasjok and Pharsalos).

It looks like we have a settlement spot between Gloucester and Cambridge on the home island

Looks good, Ted :)

The more I think about UU, the more nervous I get! I certainly don't want to see Berserkers or Ansar Warriors running around our island...

Roster check:
Smellincoffee==========>UP :bump:
Tinkez - on sabbatical until 29th
Tallanas - on deck
Bede
mtgfreak
TedJackson

Got it, will play tomorrow.

:bump: itty :bump:

Thanks for the bump Bede.

I've been a little busy and I seem to be "up" in most of my SGs at the moment :)

Any progress SC?


Ted

No. This is the first I've been online in a couple of days. :(

The next player should go ahead and take it; I've been working all day for the past two days and it looks like today is going to be another full day of it. Three cheers for physical labor!

Roster check:
Tallanas - UP
Bede
mtgfreak
TedJackson
Smellincoffee-Working too hard
Tinkez -on sabbatical until 29th

Edit - vicious crosspost!

Got it...

You're up! We crossposted.

Take it away.

Pre-flight check...

I see that William has a worker for sale, so i offer him Philosophy for the slave and 125 gold. Maybe with philo in the bag, he'll start on Republic... We still can't afford Engineering... No research in the Middle Ages could get quite expensive. Is it worth building the GL?

IBT - nothing.

Turn 1 - 130 BC

Move the swords around to the iron hill, and lots of worker stuff. Nothing else of import.

IBT - London rax>spear; Leeds spear>granary; Athens finishes Statue of Zeus;

Turn 2 - 110 BC

Disperse the barbarian camp near the iron; worker moves galore. I have found the last AI :) Just dark blue borders at the moment...

IBT - Oxford worker>worker;

Turn 3 - 90 BC

Barb clearance gives us an elite sword. 3 clowns need to be hired for one turn until MPs complete...

IBT - Portugal and France ally vs Germany. Notts worker>market; Hastings horse>sword; Cant settler>settler;

Turn 4 - 70 BC

The last civ are the Maya; looks like they have no contacts and are quite backward... he has four cities and hasn't even discovered alphabet. I offer him a book to copy from. It occurs to me that he's playing a no research variant as well...

IBT - An Arab ship appears.

Turn 5 - 50 BC

The Arabs and Vikings have Literature! :rolleyes:

IBT - York market>Great Library (I'll explain why below);

Turn 6 - 30 BC

More of the same, some military moves on the island, some worker stuff at home...

IBT - Germany wants a military alliance vs the Hittites. No thanks. Arabia wants peace, but won't offer anything, and since we have alliances, I say no, for now. ROP with Vikings lapses

Turn 7 - 10 BC

More exploring, working, disperse a camp; no trades to do... Greece would accept Literature, 97gpt and 1180 gold for engineering. Ack.

IBT - London spear>market; Brighton harbour>temple (whale)

Turn 8 - 10 AD

Arab warrior moves into range... 2 horsemen board ship bound for island.

IBT - Trondheim completes mausoleum

Turn 9 - 30 AD

Found Bath, near the iron hill. Bit of a dump, for now to be honest. I'm beginning to wonder what's going on with the AI scientists... ONE middle age advance so far??

IBT - nothing of interest

Turn 10 - 50 AD

Me and my big mouth! Greece have Republic, Mono, and Engineering; Sumeria have Mono and Engineering; Portugal have Mono; none have Literature, so let's see what we can do. N.B I'm leaving this for Bede, as it's a bit off to do loads of deals on turn 10 ;)

Greece will pay 25gpt+80g for Lit... There seems to be plenty of trading potential here - Have fun with it, Brother Bede!

Wipe out another barb settlement near Middelburg...

Notes for Bede :)

I started the GL since there were no other urgent options, and for the sake of 25 turns production from one city, several early MA techs would be excellent value. Especially at the price Alex wants for them... It could also easily be a prebuild for something else if the team are inclined to change this.

Militarily the Arabs don't seem terribly threatening, which is why I prolonged the war, apart from the possible implications to our rep if the MA had been turfed. There was no opportunity for pointy-sticking, either.

The second island is now full, pretty much, and all other expansion will have to be through war. I suggest prosecuting the war with the Arabs, and trying to farm a Leader or two. We *badly* need one for the FP on the second island. The Dutch/Arab island will one day make a nice SPHQ location, and will be called Island 3 ;)

Edit - we are strong compared to the Vikings and the Arabs, so maybe a dual war would be a good idea. There are certainly more Viking targets than Arab ones, so for the early battles, maybe Ragnar would be a better bet...

Looking good.

Got it.

Play tonight.

0-50
What a nice tidy little realm. There are four luxes hooked up, one tradeable and with another little town on the island we will have a second and with a road across the mountain at Richmond a second. We have horses and iron with spares not yet connected.

The geopolitical and scientific knowledge situation requires some thought.

Ragnar is on our doorstep and is still spending hs treasury on science as he has no gpt to spare (verifed by offerng Incense for which he will pay 0gpt)) and he is militarily weak.

The Dutch are on our east island with two little towns, are in Despotism, lack Currency, Literature and Monarchy.

Sumeria and the Greeks know Engineering and Monotheism, the Greeks know Republic but remain in Monarchy.

The Sumerians are far away, know only the Greeks and the French.

I don't really want Engineering yet, as knowing it will only make it cheaper for the Scandanavians, but I am tempted by the possibility of stealing Monotheism from Sumeria. they are embroiled in the Greco-Frank war with Germany, allied with the Greeks.

My problem with buying or stealing technology right now is the lack of brokerage opportuinites.We could give up Literature and all our treasury for Republic and then trade Republic and cash to Sumeria for Monotheism but again we lack counter parties with anything of value.

Given the size of the map and the number of other nations, I will let things percolate for a while.

After some more pondering I think I've found the key to the advances of the nations in the Greek Sphere of Influence. Greeks and Sumeria are both relatively wealthy and scientific. When they made their into the MA they pulled two different techs and Henry of Portugal bought Montheism from one of them.

Spot a village east of Alesun that just might hold some value for us so send some troops to hit the barb camp and visit the neighbors. Hope they are peaceful.

1-70AD
Pump York's population up to 12 with wokrers and then re-assign citizens to max production.

2-90AD
Cancel the alliance with the Dutch as Willie is our next target, I think. Here is the plan: set up horsemen and swords to attack Middleburg, then sell Willie a new government. As so as he revolts attack Middleburg, get Willie off East Island, then take a peace deal. Willie lacks iron so the strongest oppostion we will face will be archers and spears and maybe a horseman or two.

3-110AD
Sack a barbarian camp and collect 25g

Netherlands and Arabs sign a peace treaty.

The Arabs have learned Literature and start the Great Library in Mecca pop8 and poorly developed.

4-130AD
The Scandanvains have learned Feudalism. Time for some horse trading.

Buy Monotheism from Henry for Literature and 1300g. Fair price And the idiot Ragnar won't deal :mad:

The German war starts winding down as Germany and Sumeria sign a peace treaty.

And Abu lands a warrior and settler on East Island.

Portugal starts the Great Library and the volcano erupts all over Molde. :lol:

5-150AD
Found The Mumbles between Cambridge and Gloucester

Sell Literature to Willie for 181g

Vikings start SunT's

6-170
Get 50g from the Goths
Destroy the Arab village of Mansura
Sell Literature to Sumeria for 140g +5gpt and to the Greeks for 33g and 12gpt
Lose a galley to the Arab.

Spend some of it rushing a settler out of Reading

The Dutch and the Greeks and the Sumerians start the Great Library

7-190
Cancel the Alliance with the Babs.

8-210

9-230

Steal Republic from the Greeks for 1500g and Ragnar the greedy wants Republic, Monotheism and 100gpt for Feudalsim, Sumeria will sell Engineering for Republic and 5gpt or he will buy Republic for 25g and 35gpt. This one will take some thinking on, for if we buy Engineering then we lower the cost to Ragnar on his way to Invention, but I decide it is worth it to increase the value of the Great Library.

These Middle Ages techs are getting expensive.and it is completely throwing me off my stride.

10-250AD
Destroy another Arab ville founded on the rubble of the last one. Ragnar's price for Feudalism is now down to 90gpt and Republic. The trade remains on the table.

Got the equivalent of 15 turns on the GreatLib, it will finish in 7 and judging by my map reading it is a lock.

There is a little i