This is the first game spun off from ScoutX (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=92492&page=1) .

Roster
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/gold_jumpwings.gif Tinkez
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/silver_jumpwings.gif Tallanas
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/gold_jumpwings.gif Bede
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/silver_jumpwings.gif mtgfreak
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/gold_jumpwings.gif TedJackson
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/silver_jumpwings.gif Smellincoffee ==> up

The Start
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/scoutxc3c2.jpg

The Save
> here < (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/ScoutXA-4000BC.SAV)

Game Settings
Software: [c3c] v1.22
Civ: England (Seafaring/Commercial)
Level: Emperor
Variant: No research, ever!
Target Victory: Spaceship Launch
Map Size: 140*100
Map type: Archipelago
Climate: Wet & warm
Age: 4 million
Barbs: Raging :eek:
Specials: Regions of intense barbarian activity :ar15:
Opponents: Plenty :)

General SG Etiquette Guidelines
Please do:
Let the team know if you're going to be unable to play for an extended period - holiday, illness, exams etc.
Post a "Got it" notice or ask for a skip within 24 hours of the save becoming available (I reserve the right to skip a player who hasn't responded after the 24 hour grace period is over).
Play and post within 48 hours of posting a "Got it".
Zip up your save file before posting.
Write up a log of the events occurring during your turn and post it along with your save.
Provide notes for the next player as to the current situation and any immediate plans for the future - are those Caravels heading NE or SW? is that Swordsman fortified to heal or act as a lookout? Our forces are mustering for an attack on...
Feel free to pause and ask for advice, or simply discuss, if a situation arisies in the game and you're unsure of the best course of action.

Please do not:
Automate Workers.
Use City Governors unless the team has discussed and agreed their use.
Leave units on goto orders that will extend beyond your turn.
Make deals on your last turn. However, you should notify the next player if trading opportunities exist.
Make wholesale changes to build orders on the inherited turn without consulting the team.


General Gameplay Notes
Reputation: we will need to protect our reputation very carefully in the early part of the game. Losing the ability to make GPT deals early on would make the game much harder.

Brokering: for those unfamiliar with the term it's just a shorthand for acting as "middleman" in deals - e.g. buying a tech from Civ A then selling it on to Civs B, D & E (hopefully picking up something else of value along the way). We'll need to be on the lookout for brokering opportunities at every turn so I suggest that we use CRPMapstat (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=52902) to monitor trade opportunities. This utility offers no information that cannot be gained by slogging through the Diplomatic screens every turn, it just presents the information quickly and simply.

Keeping the AI Isolated (from each other): again, this is an important factor that will help us to maintain our position as a broker. Even if we have to devote significant resources to keeping the AI isolated we will still benefit by controlling trade. Obviously this situation can only last until the end of the Middle Ages but it is well worth the effort!

Roads: we will need every gold piece we can lay our hands on in the early game so building roads has an even higher priority than normal. We really don't want our citizens working unroaded tiles.

Still more to come... :)


Ted

Variant Rules - No Research, Ever!
This means:
Science slider must be to 0 at all times.
No Scientists may be hired (or tolerated) in any of our settlements.

We can, however, build Libraries, Universities & Research Labs for their cultural impact. The Great Library is also allowed but not manadatory (we'll just have to see how things look before deciding on this one).


Ted

Ancient Times
Worker moved to Cattle and then we settled on the spot, getting maps from the Goddy Hut. Research Slider locked at zero and we started our first build, a Curragh.

We met the Scandinavians in 3150BC but no trading was possible at this time. Minor barb activity was swiftly dealt with by our exploring Warriors over the next few hundred years.

We met a surly Arab scout in 2950BC but we still didn't have sufficient gold to exchange scientific discoveries. Things remained quiet until 2640BC, when we meet a Durch wanderer and the Babylonians. It seems that the Dutch are as backward as ourselves, The Babylonians trade us Bronze Working, Ceremonial Burial and Warrior Code for Alphabet + 2gp.

We sold Warrior Code to Arabia & Pottery to Holland in 2510BC (mainly to prevent them trading amongst themselves). 2430BC marked the arrival of our 2nd Settler and construction started on another Curragh.

Our Settler founded Nottingham on the agreed coastal site in 2190 and immediately started training a Worker.

To be continued...


Ted

marker posting...

I've created some empty posts above to make life easier :)

Rules
I'd prefer to play by the RBCIV (http://www.realmsbeyond.net/civ/eexploits.html) ruleset with one addition - Only one worker may be bought from each AI before 1000BC. Comments?

I'll add our variant-specific rules in a little while.

Summary
I'll try to keep a simple summary for lurkers (& players).

Useful Links
Although this isn't a Training Day Game I've no doubt that we'll be referring to some of the "standard" information. Collecting those references here will just make life easier for everyone :)


Ted

Looking good there!

Tal signing in...

Reporting in.

One worker per AI before 1000BC sounds ok.

Ted : Will you make the play order?

-Tinkez

Ah, forgot to mention the buying worker thing. Sounds ok to me; since we will be doing no research, we'll have plenty of cash available and we could really hurt the AI with worker buying... We'll just have to "earn" our slaves...

Ted : Will you make the play order? Yep,

but I'll leave it loose for now as we'll probably want to discuss the start (when we get it), some general strategy and set some milestones before we actually start playing :)

I'd like to alternate old hands and improvers, that should keep things moving along smoothly. If possible, I'd like either yourself or Bede to take the first 20 and get us off to a firm start.

Tal signing in... Welcome aboard Tal.


Ted

Checking in.

:wavey:
Good to see you all again, Ted, SC and Tal. And pleased to meetcha Tinkez and mtg


Ted, you want to flip the coin for lead off batter? Call it, Tinkez!

Checking in.

:wavey:
Good to see you all again, Ted, SC and Tal. And pleased to meetcha Tinkez and mtgBeen a while Bede :)

Ted, you want to flip the coin for lead off batter? Call it, Tinkez!Coin flipped :D


Ted

Hi Brother Bede :salute:

Good to be in a game that varies between people I know and new folk, and also the skill levels - looking forward to this enormously!

I've added some general gameplay notes for this variant to the first post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=92618) and the basic Variant Rules are now up here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=1967132&postcount=2).

Comments & additions welcome :)


Ted
p.s. sorry it's going up in bits & pieces but I'm trying to fit it in around work :D

Just to confirm, I have CRpMapstat... An invaluable tool for brokering, it really is! In this variant, its impact will be huge, so I highly recommend it for anyone who hasn't tried it yet.

Ted, you want to flip the coin for lead off batter? Call it, Tinkez!
Bede

Coin flipped :D


Ted

Which one to take? :scan: :scan: :scan:

One more time : :scan:

I'll take tails! Can I start or not :lol:

-Tinkez

Checking in.

:wavey:
Good to see you all again, Ted, SC and Tal. And pleased to meetcha Tinkez and mtg


Nice to meet you too, Bede!

A big wave to other also! Looking forward to play with you :wavey:

-Tinkez

Which one to take? :scan: :scan: :scan:

One more time : :scan:

I'll take tails! Can I start or not :lol:

-TinkezTails it is!

You can take 20 to start then we'll drop back to 10 turns each.


Ted

reporting in

hi all

reporting inWelcome aboard mtgfreak.


Ted

I've updated the first post with a picture of our start position. Discussion of opening moves is now underway :)


Ted

Interesting!

Settling in place results in (at least) 4 coast tiles; 4 mountains; 2 grassland; 2 BGs; one cow; 8 of those are river tiles, and it's a coastal site.

As I say, interesting. Moving the worker to the cow will reveal (at least) 3 more squares...

As you say, moving the Worker to the Cow seems to be the optimum first move.


Ted

Can we get an expert opinion on the possible results of the barb hut if we settle right down? If I'm correct, it's a tech (most likely CB, right?), 25g, a warrior, a map, or nothing...

Not even any way we can start on CB in order to get pottery, sadly...

Then again, we don't even know what Civ we are, so that's all guesswork about the techs ;)

orange = English?

IIRC we can get anything except barbs - because we have no units with a defense value > 0 - or perhaps a Settler (it would depend on when the one we have is actually destroyed by the game during settlement)

If anybody knows for sure then pipe up :)

<Edit> We can't get a city as the GH is on a mountain. </Edit>


Ted

this could be ottomans(?) or english
however, since it is on the coast i suspect it is the English

EDIT: After looking at the color closer, i think cant be the ottomans but could be the dutch

EDIT (again): after looking at the civ3 scenario editor, the ottomans, the dutch, and the english share a color with this, whether its primary or secondary

The variant says nothing about picking a research path, just that we can't spend money or hire scientists, so, pick a tech you don't want, open the F1 screen, make sure the slider is at 0, build the city, pop the hut, and there you are.

I need to know the nation before making any recommendations on builds, etc. Given the variant one thing we might want to consider is a farmers's gambit and, and if the civ is expansionist and seafaring, build scouts and boats until we have opened up the map.

A note on trading strategy: we need to know two counter parties before we make any trades for tech, then try to exploit the opening knowledge to its fullest. The risk is that the two other parties will meet on the interturn so we need to have as much map knowledge as possible in order to guess their movements (scouts and boats, again).

Can't wait for the weekend...

Which one to take? :scan: :scan: :scan:

One more time : :scan:

I'll take tails! Can I start or not :lol:

-Tinkez
Tinkez
Tails it is!

You can take 20 to start then we'll drop back to 10 turns each.


Ted

Cool! It was well worth the scanning effort :cool:

I'll take my turns at the weekend after the save is released and we've discussed a little of our strategy.

As you say, moving the Worker to the Cow seems to be the optimum first move.
Ted
This is definately the first move. I would like to settle on the spot as that'll allow us to build a curraghs in the future. Can't remember do we need alphabet for curraghs? If we reveal a juicy spot to the south after the worker move, then the plans may change.

The worker starts with a road and irrigation on the cow tile.

I guess the build order would be (if possible) : Currragh, warrior, granary, etc. Opinions?

-Tinkez

If we are the English, a curragh can be first, sure :) A civ without alphabet, though, and it's no boats for us until contact!

If we are the English, a curragh can be first, sure :) A civ without alphabet, though, and it's no boats for us until contact!
Actually, it would be quite cruel from MB to create us a map with no contacts on the starting island and when we're not able to do research, that would be a REAL challange :eek:

-> Let's assume we have alphabet in the beginning OR a larger landmass with possible contacts. :thumbsup:

-Tinkez

Actually, it would be quite cruel from MB to create us a map with no contacts on the starting island and when we're not able to do research, that would be a REAL challange :eek:

-Tinkez

:shudder:

Don't say things like that, I'll have nightmares!

Might as well post a big picture of a clown or something! :aargh:

I've added some SG Etiquette Guidelines to the first post. Think of them as lubrication to keep the game running smoothly rather than as commandments handed down from on high :)

Actually, it would be quite cruel from MB to create us a map with no contacts on the starting island and when we're not able to do research, that would be a REAL challangeNo... mad-bax wouldn't be that cruel... would he? :D


Ted

A note on trading strategy: we need to know two counter parties before we make any trades for tech, then try to exploit the opening knowledge to its fullest. The risk is that the two other parties will meet on the interturn so we need to have as much map knowledge as possible in order to guess their movements (scouts and boats, again). I quite agree. It seems counter-intuitive but we're probably best served by delaying those early tech trades as long as possible, especially if we have Alphabet. The more (isolated) AI Civs we discover before trading the better the price we'll command for techs when we do finally trade and there's a fair chance that we'll effectively become the tech leaders for a while :)


Ted

I'm surprised at the experts. It's obvious you're not England. There are only two bars there in the picture, so you have no scout, so you're not expansionist. Ergo, you're not England.

You also won't get a settler from the hut if you settle-pop it. You need to have:
- Less than or equal to the average number of cities across the world
- No settler active or being built

If the settler is destroyed by the time the hut pops (and I think it is), you'll have one city and everybody else will have zero, so you violate the first principle. No settler possible.

I still don't think I'd move.

Arathorn

In C3C aren't the English Seafaring and Commercial?

I think there's a fair chance we get to be the Brits! ;)

Well...

Tallanas is right and Arathorn, most unusually, is wrong. England in [c3c] is Seafaring/Commercial. However, Arathorn returns to form when he says we can't get a Settler from the GH :)

Thanks for clearing up the GH issue Arathorn, I got halfway there then flunked out.


Ted

Actually, it would be quite cruel from MB to create us a map with no contacts on the starting island and when we're not able to do research, that would be a REAL challange :eek:

No... mad-bax wouldn't be that cruel... would he? :D

Yes, Mad-Bax WASN'T that cruel until he saw our speculations.... :lol: :mischief:

-Tinkez

Yes, Mad-Bax WASN'T that cruel until he saw our speculations.... :lol: :mischief:

-Tinkez

Are you saying there's some last minute editing going on?? :cry:

I can't even blame it on Monday morning or Friday afternoon. Fact is, I just got the traits from vanilla and PTW so ingrained that I can't keep up with the civs that changed traits in C3C. I'm fine with the new ones, but the old brain paths for the old traits are so well-worn, I can't seem to make new connections. Bah...getting old sucks.

Sorry for the mis-info on the one score. Glad y'all are around to keep me flying straight.

Arathorn

Old habits die hard ;)

I'm sure there must be something you can blame it on, though! The weather? Euro 2004??

If not, try my ever-faithful ruse... "Aha, you spotted my deliberate mistake! Glad to see someone's paying attention...!"

:D

btw, ill be gone for 2 weeks at the end of july for a holiday

btw, ill be gone for 2 weeks at the end of july for a holidayNoted.

Can you post a reminder a week or so before you leave to jog everyone's memory? :)


Ted

MB has posted the save files & I've linked to ours in the first post.

Take it away Tinkez [dance] [dance] [dance]

BTW we're playing as England :banana:


Ted

Just thinking out loud here:

England: Seafaring and Commercial. Know Alphabet and Pottery. Alphabet is the most valuable of the first column knoweldge, pottery is one of the least valuable.

Suggest we open with a seafarer's gambit. Two or three curraghs immediately and start boxing the compass.

Opening moves: water the cattle, then move to the BG NW of the cattle, mine, then move without roading to the next BG, as I think if we road then move through London to the other BG we lose the movement crossing the river entering the city, so it would be 2 moves to the other BG however we do it, then mine and road the BG to the NE, then road across the north side of the river connecting the improved terrain. The terrain is riverine so we retain the commercial bonus.

After the curraghs are built the next call would be granary or settler.....I'm never satisfied with how I handle that one.

The opening site is admirably defensible, but we will have to post troops outside the city because of the river until Engineering.

This looks like great fun...

Checking in - had no idea this thread existed because I usually visit my SGs via the control pane (subscribed thread) :lol:.

Suggest we open with a seafarer's gambit. Two or three curraghs immediately and start boxing the compass. I agree, on the whole, although it will depend on part what the Worker reveals when he moves to the Cow and the contents of the Goody Hut. If the Worker move leaves us settling on the spot then if the GH doesn't pop a Warrior I would suggest that we pop a Warrior in as our second build - we don't want to get caught with our pants down this early, do we?


Opening moves: water the cattle, then move to the BG NW of the cattle, mine, then move without roading to the next BG, as I think if we road then move through London to the other BG we lose the movement crossing the river entering the city, so it would be 2 moves to the other BG however we do it, then mine and road the BG to the NE, then road across the north side of the river connecting the improved terrain. The terrain is riverine so we retain the commercial bonus. Again, I'm with you in principle. It just depends on what (if anything) the Worker move reveals.


After the curraghs are built the next call would be granary or settler.....I'm never satisfied with how I handle that one. To soon to say... let's see what else mad-bax has prepared for us :)


The opening site is admirably defensible, but we will have to post troops outside the city because of the river until Engineering. Just reminding everyone the barbs are set to Raging so we'll probably want a fairly close build pattern early on.


This looks like great fun... Couldn't agree more :)


Checking in Welcome aboard Smellincoffee...


Ted

Welcome SC (do you prefer Smellincoffee, Coffee, or SC? :) )

Not much to add to the start ideas - the worker move dictates it all! I'm sure Tinkez can cope, though... ;)

Since we have raging barbarians, and "areas of regionally intense barbarian activity" whatever that means ( :evil: ) it may be an idea to consider having a second city as a unit pump, and not to go purely "paper cutout" - maybe mix in spears for city defence. In C3C, I find there is a tendency to build up a large treasury early on whilst doing a 50 turn gambit (this will be more true than ever using England, seafaring and commercial!!) - and personally I find nothing more infuriating than seeing a troupe of woolly-backed sheep-botherers traipsing through a border town carrying off all my hard-earned!

Just a thought ;)

Tal

Welcome SC (do you prefer Smellincoffee, Coffee, or SC? )


Ever since I began using this name, people invariably call me one of those. I like SC, but you can type "Smellincoffee" out if you want. Just don't misspell it or insert in punctuation. :lol:

Since we have raging barbarians, and "areas of regionally intense barbarian activity" whatever that means ( :evil: )
I think you'll find that mad-bax has (over) populated some of the (nearby) islands with barb camps :eek:

it may be an idea to consider having a second city as a unit pump, and not to go purely "paper cutout" - maybe mix in spears for city defence. I'm sure we'll build up our Military quite quickly. After all, the only ways we can gain techs are: GH popping, trade or gouging it out of our enemies - and everyone's our enemy, right? :D

In C3C, I find there is a tendency to build up a large treasury early on whilst doing a 50 turn gambit (this will be more true than ever using England, seafaring and commercial!!) - and personally I find nothing more infuriating than seeing a troupe of woolly-backed sheep-botherers traipsing through a border town carrying off all my hard-earned! Sometimes letting the barbs sack a town is the sensible way to disperse them, providing you've emptied the treasury first ;) This is particularly true with the "End of Era" uprisings.


Ted

Hmm, clearly my last post totally neglected the fact that we are on "no research"... :blush:

Having said that, the treasury will indeed be massive ;)

Tinkez, have you picked up the save?


Ted

Just picked the save, report coming in an hour or two.

-Tinkez

No worries,

Wasn't sure if you were aware that the save was available :)


Ted

4000BC:Move worker to cattle, reveal BG in S, nothing else. Settle on the spot. GH gives us maps. See 2 more GH's nearby and a wheat in S. Decide on build order based on this: curragh and then warrior. Set research to zero, net gain +5gpt
3750BC:Worker has irrigated the cow, move to NW to BG. Growth in 1.
3700BC:London grows, lux slider to 10%
IBT:London Curragh - warrior
3650BC:Curragh moves E, sees barb camp on the next isle - How surprising. I'm certainly going to build that warrior. On the barb isle there's also wines and a GH.
3600BC:Curragh spots that there are 2 wines on the next island.
3550BC:See one more GH. Total number is now 4.
IBT:Borders expand.
3500BC:I'm afraid that the curragh will be trapped between these isles...
IBT:London warrior -> curragh, london grows to 3.
3450BC:Warrior exploring, lux slider to 30%. Curragh sees gems S of London on the same island.
3400BC:Worker finished mining the BG, move to next BG. Warrior sees Incense W of London, nice :)
3350BC:Pop a GH, get warrior.
IBT:Curragh -> granary
3300-3250BC:Exploring.
IBT:London grows to 4.
3200BC:Lux to 40%. We need a MP to London.
3150BC:Curragh2 meets Scandinavia E of London. They have wC and wines hooked up. He does not want to trade (92gp+4gpt is not enough)
3100BC:Pop a GH -> 3 angry warriors :(
IBT:Barb attacks, no damage to us, promotes to a vet. Vikings found Bergen.
3050BC:Kill second barb
3000BC:Nada. Ragnarok is annoyed, doesn't want to sell BW nor WC.

That's it. Next one to go.

London will grow next turn, remember to check lux slider! There is nice settler factory number two S of London (2 wheats by a river). London will build granary in 4 turns, next settler in my opinion.

Our starting island needs exploring, but there are 2 warrior doing that. London needs military police, maybe it's worth moving the conscript warrior to London, so we can set lux slider down?

The curragh near Vikings is going southwards, the other one far south should continue exploring southwards also.

Good luck to the next player!

Save is <here> (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/ScoutXA-3000_BC.SAV)

-Tinkez

Our known world:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/ScoutXA_3000BC_Pic.JPG

Nice start - looks even more interesing!

"Got it"

Looks like mad-bax has given us a nice start :)

I'm surprised to find improved but un-roaded tiles around London. Apart from that everything seems to be coming along nicely.

Here's my first cut at a dotmap:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-3000BC-dotmap.jpg

Rather than settling where Tinkez suggests I think a better long term plan would be Blue then Green followed by Yellow. Blue only captures 1 Wheat before expansion but would allow Green, on the River and Coastal, so will be powerful in the future. Yellow will net our first lux (Incense) and Grey is Coastal.

The above is dependent on what is hidden at Red. If something special is revealed then we'll have to rethink.

Comments and suggestions welcome.

BTW Research needs to be switched away from Writing, just in case we strike lucky with a GH.


Ted

I'm surprised to find improved but un-roaded tiles around London. Apart from that everything seems to be coming along nicely.

Those tiles are unroaded because I was aiming to improve the tiles faster to get more shields to get us a granary faster. The worker is currently building a road on the mined BG. Then he should go back to cow and road that. As we are not doing any research, I thought that the shields are more important than a bit more commerce from roads.

Rather than settling where Tinkez suggests I think a better long term plan would be Blue then Green followed by Yellow. Blue only captures 1 Wheat before expansion but would allow Green, on the River and Coastal, so will be powerful in the future. Yellow will net our first lux (Incense) and Grey is Coastal.

Good plan Ted.

BTW Research needs to be switched away from Writing, just in case we strike lucky with a GH.

I forgot that you can't get the tech you're "researching" from a GH. Switch the research path to something else.

-Tinkez

Pre-flight didn't take long ;) Said "Hi" to Bill and Ben, our two warriors, and that's about it...

IBT - nothing...

Turn 1 - 2950

The southern curragh discovers an Arab scout - they are already annoyed with us :) They know BW and CB, not Alphabet, and have 10 gold... Like the Vikings, they won't even go for 108g and 4 gpt...

I attack the barbarian fortified on the mountain - otherwise, our warrior will never be able to explore. We win and promote :)

IBT - Fantastic news... Both the Vikings and the Arabs have Alphabet. I think they both must have been researching it, hence the crappy prices they were prepared to pay for it...

Turn 2 - 2900

Exploring

IBT - nothing

Turn 3 - 2850

London Granary>Settler; more exploring - the big "barbarian island" looks uninhabited by Ai civs, and has been circumnavigated - plenty of resources there, spices and lots of wines... Must be a settling/military priority.

IBT - nothing

Turn 4 - 2800

Exploring.

IBT - nothing

Turn 5 - 2750

As above...

IBT - nothing

Turn 6 - 2710

Exploring...

IBT - nothing

Turn 7 - 2670

Eploring - London to size 6, 3 happy 3 sad, settler next turn... Only bronze working available from the AIs, for all our economy. No thanks. Wish we ahd used alphabet early now...

IBT - nothing

Turn 8 - 2630

London settler>warrior; meet the Dutch, in exactly the same place as the Arabs (a curragh is back-tracking...) so they must be neighbours. He will sell us CB for 130 gold, but what's the point? Won't help us now, so might as well wait.

Other curragh uncovers Red borders, the annoyed Babylonians. They have BW, CB and WC, but *neither* of our techs... At last, a trade opportunity. Since everyone we know except the Babs have Alphabet already (and therefore can build curraghs and get contact), I trade Hammurabi Alphabet and 2 gold for BW, CB and WC. I feel we did ok out of that trade...

Our island looks rather, umm, small.

IBT - Arabia develops masonry, and lacks our WC... WC plus our economy is not enough for the monopoly price on Masonry...

Turn 9 - 2590

We have one tech on all our neighbours - Arabia has Masonry on us...

IBT - nothing

Turn 10 - 2550

London warrior>settler; note that the governor here keeps trying to use the mountain tile... :rolleyes:

Going with Ted's outline dotmap, the settler moves to the blue site. Green will be nice, red is not a special resource, so blue and green will do. Grey has two whales in its expanded border, yellow is looking good too!

Goody hut pops 3 angry Vandals - sorry!

And that's a wrap.


Good - alone on our island, but made lots of contacts; curraghs exploring well.
Bad - tech trading not brilliant, although a recovery was made.
Ugly - lots and lots of nasty barbarians...

The world, zoomed out :)

Sorry for the treble post :mischief:

I just noticed that after I acquired CB, the research path was set back from CB to writing - I missed that, which was careless, so would the next player (Bede!) take care of that please? :)

Tal

Edit - next plans. I forgot to write up something specific about what next, as it's fairly obvious - the curraghs are exploring into the blackness, one is even managing to explore 2 coasts simultaneously... The settler is in place now, so can plonk down, and the conscript can panic at the thought of being gang-banged by angry vandals ;)

Also, a new curragh is needed to explore in this direction...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/ScoutXCurragh.JPG

Edit 2 - since there are no Arab or Dutch borders visible, I thought I would point out where these guys are... The orange and pink dots indicate where I met the Dutch and Arabs. The red dots are barb camps on the barbarian isle next to our homeland...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/ScoutXdutcharab.JPG

I refuse to edit the above post again, so you guys can just laugh at my 4-posts-in-a-row nonsense :)

One final point - after Brother Bede's turns, we should have a full map of our home island. At that point, we should discuss exactly where we are going to settle, since we will need to make maximum use of it. We can even have a dotmap competition!

I am looking at it at the moment, and can see it holding at least a dozen cities, so it's not panic stations yet ;) After those dozen though, we will need map making asap!

Nice job Tallanas. Any time you can get a three-fer, or was it a four-fer, and get to parity with shirty neighbors you have a break through.

Your experience points out once more the value of rapid exploration and contact. Each contact made reduces the cost of tech to you but if the counter parties don't know each other the value of your knowledge remains high.

Thinking long term I would like to propose this strategy for our research trading. With eight nations on the map (and I think this one has a few more), buying at third or fourth and selling at fifth, sixth and seventh will net us the highest return, if it is done consistently and thoroughly. An analysis of the national traits will show us who our best partners are. We should feed the scientific nations gpt to keep them moving forward and deny to, or take gpt from, the others to keep the overall pace reasonable.

The resource and luxury distribution in C3C is another important factor but that discussion can be held when applicable.

So, MB, do I qualify for the filibuster "got-it" award yet?

Oh, yeah, got it!

I am going to leave the urban planning to others as I need to learn how to do that...

i probly wont be able to play tomorrow cause its independance day for us Yanks, and i have a busy schedule

Three new contacts? That's great news :thumbsup:

I'll have a look at the save this morning.

@mtgfreak: thanks for the "heads up", shouldn't be a problem.


Ted

I've had a look at the save and we still seem to be in a good position. :thumbusp: Tal

We have 2 native lux visible so far (Incense & Gems) and can see 2 more on the island to our East (Spices & Wines).

We'll need another Curragh or two to speed up exploration and some Spears and Archers for barb patrols. I'd be inclined to keep London producing Settlers with a Curragh, Spear or Archer between each Settler to keep the pop up.

Warrior then Worker would be my priorities for our new town. With 5 BG in the first ring we'll be wanting to improve this site as quickly as possible. I'd even stretch my neck out and suggest a Temple as 3rd build to capture the 2nd Wheat. Obviously circumstances might preclude it but it's not a bad goal.

I see nothing to change our settlement pattern from Blue, Green then Yellow. We can't see quite enough of the West to decide on where to go after that. Settling along the river to the NW of London is possible (Purple) then Grey (to complete our first ring). However, we might find something in the West to change our minds :)
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-2550BC-dotmap.jpg

BTW we can reduce lux to 30% and research should be switched away from Writing again.


Ted

Has anyone else noticed the unusually large number of gold or gems, and the general trade rich river island we have? And on a no research variant!! Bah!

Oh to be the Byzantines in a "whoever get most Scientific Leaders wins" variant ;)

Edit - sorry about the lux rate :rolleyes:

Has anyone else noticed the unusually large number of gold or gems, and the general trade rich river island we have? And on a no research variant!! Bah!

:cooool: :banana: :bounce: :D

And, thanks for the map, Ted

Here's another map, with the explored bits added. It's done with the following ideas in mind - as little overlap as possible (can't remember what the OCP calculation for this map will be...), so each city is as strong as it can be; as many coastal cities as possible.

The red city is shown on a river/coastal square - this would be nice, but for the sake of an aqueduct, one square to the right (as shown by the arrow) might be better - depending on what else we discover in that area, of course.

The dark pink dots are other possibles, depending on map clearance and volcano activity ;)

Anyway, it's mainly for discussion purposes...

i wonder if mad-bax gave us any iron on our island
if not, its probly on the other one

Nice map Tal,

On the subject of overlap: in general I'd base any settlement plan on fresh water & resources rather than a strict grid - as we're Seafaring then Coastal cities are a bonus. An obvious example of when I'd overlap (or not) is the positioning of Red (your map) which I'd nearly always place on the river even though it means missing the Fish :)

@mtgfreak: we've certainly got the terrain for Iron, we'll just have to wait & see ;)


Ted

What's the OCN likely to be on this map, by the way? initial thoughts would seem to suggest a FP build on the next island, since that way we can get two productive homelands...

Ted, I agree about Red :) Its current site is very attractive. I just don't like missing bonus resources! I must be pathologically mean or something... Mind you, as bonus resources go, Fish are the worst by a long, long way!

It will depend on how MB setup the map...

OCN is normally 20 for standard sized maps and 28 for large. So we could hope to split the difference at 24.

The only way we'll actually know is by when the Forbidden Palace becomes available :)

I'm also hoping that we can settle the Eastern island and agree, for the moment, that a Forbidden Palace in the middle of the island would seem to be a good choice.


Ted

The Other Eden, Demi Paradise (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A2150BC.zip)

0-2550BC
Reset preferences (turn animations off except for battles as my fingers work faster than my video processor).
Lower lux to 30% and reset research
Press enter.
Lucky the Conscript defeats a barb attack without injury and promotes to regular.

1-2510
Lucky moves NW into the forest.

York is founded as marked. Starts warrior.

Curragh encounters Abu's warrior. He lacks Warrior Code has Masonry as Monopoly. We have Warrior Code at second. He still won't come to the table on Masonry, but since we think he knows the Dutch Boy who has bows and arrows take his 20g for Warrior Code before Willie does and gets Masonry in the bargain. Then call a meeting with Hammurabi amd sell on Pottery for 37g.

2-2470BC
Exploring.

Lucky fends off another barb attack and moves west into another forest.

3-2430BC
Our elite warrior finds another village on the NW coast while Lucky reaches what looks like Land's End in the west.

4-2390BC
Lucky lands on Land's End and the elite warrior wakes up a bunch of wine-drinking Frenchmen (Burgundian tribesmen).

London builds its settler and starts a curragh. settler trekking to coastal estuary.

The drunken Burgundians form a huddle.

5-2350
Evade the Burgundians and vector the warriors homeward.

6-2310
Curragh sets off from London to NW Passage.

7-2270
Trekking and sailing.

8-2230
Same. Warriors are leading a lone Vandal back to our core.

9-2190
Found Nottingham on the coast. start worker.

Warriors trekking homeward. York is building a worker

10-2150
Not much to report other than incoming barbarains and a bulging treasury and nothing but Abu's monopoly on Masonry to spend it on, and if we did, no one to trade it off to. Ragnar has some cash to spend for Ceremonial Burial but I don't think he knows anybody else with the knowledge and 10 gold pieces is just not enough.

Settler is aiming for the Incense hills. Exploring curraghs are finding only Babylonians, Arabs and Vikings to the east.

Interestingly, the status screen shows England equal to the Arabs in territory and equal to the Babylonians in population. The power curve has a few interesting bumps in it as well, with our curve turning sharply up at 2150BC.

The settlement plan as outlined in Ted's and Tal's posts looks to be working well at least to this point. If we don't find an Iron Range I would be very surprised, but then, knowing MB maybe I wouldn't be. :mischief:


Once the Burgundians beat themselves to death I would boogey a warrior to Land's End to act as a lookout for visiting firemen from that direction, and another one north to clean out any new arrivals and for the same purpose.

And I agree with Ted's plan to build a temple in York. It will become a growth monster and keeping the Tudors happy (those cantankerous Sons of York) will become expensive.

We still need one more curragh to explore westwards.

This royal throne of kings, this scepter'd isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,
This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in the silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall,
Or as a moat defensive to a house,
Against the envy of less happier lands,
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,
This nurse, this teeming womb of royal kings,
Fear'd by their breed and famous by their birth,
Renowned for their deeds as far from home,
For Christian service and true chivalry,
As is the sepulchre in stubborn Jewry,

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A01.jpg



Notes on the neighbors:
Dutch-Seafaring and Agricultural
Viking-Seafaring and Militaristic
Arabia-Religious and Expansionist
Babylonians-Religious and Scientific

Looks like the Babylonians are the ones to cultivate, at least so far. Become Hammurabi's bosom buddy and make it so he can't live without us. Once trade routes are open he should be our first choice as a luxury trading partner as that will keep his research rate up.

The Vikings are axe wielding hooligans once they reach the Middle Ages. I would ship them iron, if we have extra, and maybe even if we don't, encourage them to go to war with anybody but the Babylonians, and then once the deal is over, declare war on them but let a closer ally do the fighting. That will delay their entry to the MA and the availability of the berzerk, and may even put them down for the count.

I don't know the Dutch or the Arabs well, so it is hard to prepare a strategy for our relationship. The Dutch have an excellent MA defensive UU, the Arabs a fearsome offensive one, so I would hazard the guess that they will research as fast as they can to the required knoweldge to get them. That means they will probably bypass the optional techs like literature and take the shortest path to Feudalism (Dutch) and Chivalry (Arabs).

The Arabs probably won't give up Masonry until the Pyramids are built, but might pay well for Monarchy and horses and the Dutch will have more interest in Republic, Map Making and iron (once they enter the MA).

As stated above, the island to our east is a high priority, but we need Map Making to claim it.

On the FP discussion I don't have much to add (another of my not so good things, like settlement planning).

Rota check:
mtgfreak ==> up
TedJackson
Smellincoffee
Tinkez
Tallanas
Bede

Looking good Bede :thumbsup:

I'll update the roster & the summary.


Ted

Solid stuff Bede :)

I sense plenty of opportunity to whip out the old Bard in this game! :D

Edit - any chance of a screen shot of the Land's End area?? :)

I sense plenty of opportunity to whip out the old Bard in this game! :D


Makes you go blind that does.

Sorry - it was so obvious, but I couldn't resist. ;)

:rotfl:

I don't know what you mean, though! :mischief:

This thread is NOT going to degenerate into one of those "Mine's bigger than yours! Na-na-de-na-na" spamfests :D

Oops :blush: ...

That's from Richard the 2nd not Richard 11" :D


Ted

As requested:

Land's End
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-2150BC-LandsEnd.jpg


Ted

Ooh, nice!

Tal,

Looks as if sticking to settling Yellow then Purple then Grey is indicated.

Are you going to attempt another dotmap or do you want me to give it a shot?


Ted

@MB and Ted,
:rotfl:
You guys are awful!!

Merry Wives of Windsor coming up next!!

Merry Wives of Windsor coming up next!!As a late programme change, we're pleased to announce that the previously scheduled item will be replaced by "Typsy Tartes of Tottenham" for your (salacious) viewing pleasure :)


Ted

well, here goes

Turn 1: Exploration
IBT: Nothing
Turn 2: London: Warrior->Settler, Lucky kills fort barb warrior in forest and goes to 1HP. I wait on moving settler up to hills in case PRNG doesnt like me. I buy masonry from Abu for 11gpt and 290g (had to use it sometime)
IBT: nothing
Turn 3: Lower lux rate down to 10% and change a Londoner to an entertainer for some xtra income.
IBT: Nothing
Turn 4: York: Worker-> Temple
IBT: Lucky kills yet another barb warrior, still doesnt promote
Turn 5: Move settler to incense hills. Ragnar has writing and wont trade even for all our treasury, 21 gpt, and both techs we have over him.
IBT: Discover Arabs building Pyramids
Turn 6: Hastings is founded on incense hills
IBT: Lucky wins again but doesnt promote
Turn 7: Move warriors southward to look for barbs down there
IBT: Nothing
Turn 8: London Settler->Settler, moving Settler to Fish spot
IBT: Nothing
Turn 9: Exploring
IBT: Nothing
Turn 10: Realize that Hastings wont grow for 5 turns after worker will be done, so i switch to spearman to avoid shield loss

Ragnar still wont trade writing for everything we have, no one else has techs we dont though

I dont know how to do screenshots, so if some1 else could get one

Tal,

Looks as if sticking to settling Yellow then Purple then Grey is indicated.

Are you going to attempt another dotmap or do you want me to give it a shot?


Ted

Agreed on the order... Feel free to update your own map - I'm no map-hog ;)

Edit - just been looking at the save... I know the Arabs are wxpansionist, but wow! :eek: Good job taking over that island, Abu...

Also, I notice that you mention an entertainer, Mtgfreak (btw, what is MTG??) - I usually feel that with so few cities, a rise in the lux rate is made up for by getting the food and shields/trade from using the entertainer as a worker. Sometimes, though, it can be a tough call!

Solid turns...

Got it

@mtgfreak: from looking at your turnlog I see 2 less than optimum choices:

1 You spent our treasury & some of our future income on Masonry (a tech that is worthless to us). The only techs we need at present are those that lead to Map Making. Why do I say that? Because Map Making will allow us to build Caravels & colonise the island to our East thus increasing the size of our empire and our potential income. One side effect of your deal will probably be to make Arabia's position as "Top dog" unassailable for a long time to come.

2. Appointing an entertainer should only ever be a "Last resort" as thay are parasites, consuming food and offering nothing in return but a transitory and illusionary happiness. At this stage of the game, expansion is still our most important factor. An entertainer merely stunts London's growth. It would have been much better to leave the lux at 20, 30 or even 40 percent and keep London's population growing at the maximum possible.

I hope you take these comments as constructive and understand why I've made them. Feel free to ask if any of the points I've made are unclear.


Ted

Our Core
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-1750BC.jpg

The Red arrow indicates where I think the Settler is heading.


Ted

I think your comments were well put, Ted. Some interesting points about entertainers that I had to learn the hard way as well, in SGoTM2.

The settler is indeed heading to that site - I think the next should go to the purple site, then green - we could do with hooking up our two luxuries as soon as possible now. A road to Hastings should be a number one priority.

JM1A-1750BC

Pre-flight checks...
Fire clown at London
Raise lux to 20% (income plummets from +7gpt to +4gpt)
Nottingham switches from Worker to Warrior
Hastings switches from Spear to Warrior

Tech Report
Arabia (378gp) up Maths
Babylon (0gp) down Masonry
Netherlands (0gp) down Masonry
Scandinavia (10gp) up Writing, down Masonry & Ceremonial Burial

Objectives
Expand our empire
Acquire Writing

Press button...

1 - 1725BC
Currraghs explore
Workers move to NW York - mining & road to Hastings
Worker mine (W Nottingham)
Settler SW

IBT
Hastings Warrior - Worker
Vikings start Colossus :(

2 - 1700BC
Lux 30% (London grew)
Workers mine
Settler SW
Curraghs explore

IBT
London Settler - Warrior

3 - 1675BC
Settler heads NW (Purple)
Settler arrives at coastal river (SW)
Lux 10%
Netherlands & Arabia have Iron Working

IBT
Arabia demands 23gp - I say "Off with you! May your camels run dry"
Arabia declares war on us

4 - 1650BC
Curraghs explore
Canterbury founded

IBT
London Warrior - Settler

5 - 1625BC
Curraghs explore
Settler NW
Workers mine - road

IBT
Dutch start Pyramids

6 - 1600BC
Curraghs explore
Settler NW
Worker road
Babylon has Iron Working
Buy Iron Working from Babylon for Masonry + 112gp
Buy Writing from Scandinavia for Iron Working, Ceremonial Burial + 17gp
We have Iron on a mountain between London & Nottingham :)

IBT
Hastings Worker - Barracks

7 - 1575BC
Coventry founded (Purple)
Workers road
Curraghs explore
We can't afford to establish embassies just yet

IBT
Nottingham Warrior - Warrior
Babylon starts Pyramids

8 - 1550BC
Curraghs explore
Workers work

IBT
York Temple - Settler
Arabia starts Oracle

9 - 1525BC
Curraghs explore (including suicide run)
Workers work
Lux 0%

IBT
London Settler - Warrior

10 - 1500BC
Settler heads for Grey site
Curraghs explore
Workers work

Notes
I wasn't expecting Arabia to declare as we had an ongoing gpt deal with them. But that's Civ's AI for you :(

We're Up Writing vs Arabia, Netherlands & Babylon; Masonry vs Scandinavia and down Maths & Mysticism vs Arabia.

I deliberately haven't traded away Writing. It could be best used when Arabia sues for peace to winkle Maths & Mysticism from them. Whatever happens do not trade Writing to the Dutch as they're on the same landmass as Arabia.

We can afford Embassies now but should probably build up a little nest egg first.

Our Curraghs are still exploring and I took a short suicide run to discover another island.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-1500BC-Curragh2.jpg

This Curragh is heading anticlockwise around our island.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-1500BC-Curragh1.jpg

This Curragh is heading to the unexplored tip.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-1500BC-Curragh3.jpg

Keep a sharp eye open for Sea channels as when Map Making is discovered we'll be needing to explore them ASAP.

The Settler is heading for the Northern (Grey) coastal site.

On the city front:
London should build another Settler after the Warrior.

York's borders will expand in 3 turns bringing the second Wheat into play. Remember to mine the second Wheat not irrigate it. This is a priority Worker task best dealt with by the 2 Workers 2NW of York once they finish their current task. I've not projected the moves forward but York will become a 4 turn Settler Factory as soon as a Granary is built. We could probably sneak in 1 or 2 forest chops to speed that Granry's completion :)

Hastings is building a Barracks (inland city with nothing else to worry about) and the Incense road will complete at the end of this turn.

Nottingham could start another Curragh after the Warrior (perhaps keeping it close to home ready to upgrade).

Canterbury might also be a good place to build another Curragh (sailing it to Nottingham or London ready for upgrading).

Coventry's next build should probably be a Worker. Connecting our cities and improving our tiles is even more important in this variant.

Dotmaps and save follow...


Ted

Dotmap 1
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-1500BC-dotmap-1.jpg

Dotmap 2
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-1500BC-dotmap-2.jpg

I prefer dotmap 1 even though Cyan & Black are quite cramped. The Red site South of York captures both Fish which will allow us to work the mountains later. It looks a bit odd now but I think it will work out OK :)

Comments & suggestions are (always) welcome.

The save is > here < (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-1500BC.zip)


Ted

Nice work, Ted.

2 is neater, but 1 is better for such a small island. Not absolutely convinced by the black square, as there is only one tile that belongs to that city only... All the rest would be shared. Once we get up to size 12 cities, black is ripe for abandonment!

Good trading too, I think it is important to stress how we need to keep writing to ourselves for a while :)

Not absolutely convinced by the black square, as there is only one tile that belongs to that city only... All the rest would be shared. Once we get up to size 12 cities, black is ripe for abandonment!There's always a trade off :)

Black lets us work some more river tiles in the short term but could well be abandoned further down the line.

Roster update:
Smellincoffee ==> up
Tinkez
Tallanas
Bede
mtgfreak
TedJackson


Ted

Nice turns Ted!

I'm also quite surprised that Arabia declared, but that does not harm us at this point, maybe it'll harm only them as they build more military and therefore do not focus on research that much -> others will catch up and give us more trade opportunities.

About the city placement: Map1 looks good, I agree on maybe later abandoning the black site, but it'll be a good city for a long time. I'll just throw one question here:

The red spot city on the bottom right corner of our island. If we build it there, it's true that we can work on the two fish, but we'll also leave three grassland tiles out of reach from all cities. Is that really what we want? Maybe building two cities on that corner on following locations:

1. from the red spot two squares NE.
2. from the red spot two squares NW.

This will make Canterbury more crowded, but also would allow us to take full advantage from the two fish, both resources and the three grassland tiles that would otherwise be unused.

What does the team think about this corner of our island? :confused:

Comments are welcome of course.

-Tinkez

The red spot city on the bottom right corner of our island. If we build it there, it's true that we can work on the two fish, but we'll also leave three grassland tiles out of reach from all cities. Is that really what we want? Maybe building two cities on that corner on following locations:

1. from the red spot two squares NE.
2. from the red spot two squares NW.

This will make Canterbury more crowded, but also would allow us to take full advantage from the two fish, both resources and the three grassland tiles that would otherwise be unused. You're right, I considered this option but liked the future fast growth offered by the 2 Fish site better. After I'd fiddled around to get the 2 maps, I'd quite forgotten about the alternative for Red and so forgot to mention it :blush:


Ted

Just to comment further, I would go for red on a tile two NW of its current spot, and then a city on the little island promontory ting - less crowded, and it only wastes one grassland tile, which we can probably deal with ;)

Edit - normally I wouldn't be bothered about the intial 24 hr "got it" period" but I notice that SC hasn't posted to the thread for a long time...

SC! Are you there? :)

Edit 2 - for your viewing pleasure... The black X is our one lost tile. Otherwise, I think this would work very nicely as a trade city.

I didn't spot that option Tal,

well done :)


Ted

Good eyeballs, Tal and Ted. I need to get glasses that superimpose the city outline on everything....

Good eyeballs, Tal and Ted. I need to get glasses that superimpose the city outline on everything....It's the walking round with my head tilted to one side that I can't handle :D


Ted

The city placement is good with the small island used, nice point. I guess we all agree on the city placement on the starting continent now.

Now we just wait if SC shows up? :confused:

How long should I wait if there's no "got it" from him?

Edit: PM sent to SmellinCoffee

-Tinkez

Consider this a got it, although I need to study the thread to see what's up. Mafia has been hogging my attention since Sunday afternoon. ;)

Mafia has been hogging my attention since Sunday afternoon. ;)

:lol:
What till HalfLife2 and/or Doom3 get released. I have a feeling it's going to be real quiet around here......

Consider this a got it, although I need to study the thread to see what's up. Mafia has been hogging my attention since Sunday afternoon. ;)

:ar15:

So how about a Mafia :bump:...

Apologies to Ted for usurping his prerogative, but it was an opportunity I couldn't resist. :mischief:

I apologize for the slight delay, but I had to take care of some pressing RL buisness involving college.

Inherited Turn - 1500 BC
Nothing to do here. I notice we're at war with Arabia. An equal peace treaty is not possible.

Turn 1 - 1475 BC
Move settler toward the Grey position north of London. Curraghs explore.

Turn 2- 1450 BC
Galleys explore. Go back to Arabia. Abu has The Wheel, Mysticism, and Mathematics over us. I can get a peace treaty, mysticism, and the Wheel for writing. Sounds good, but let me check the others. The Netherlands will give us Mysticism, the Wheel, and 194 gold for Writing, so I don't think that's such a good idea. But, I can't forsee Writing getting us MORE than this based on my experience in selling it, so I'll go ahead and see what I can do. If I make a mistake, so be it. I can get griped at and perhaps learn from it. So, I go ahead and make the trade with the Netherlands. I can now get a peace treaty with Arabia for writing, in exchange for 175 gold. I'll go ahead and try that.

Netherlands demand 46 gold. I have no idea what the agressiveness of the Dutch is set to, but I'm not going to tempt them.

Turn 3- 1425 BC
Do some more exploring and the like.

Turn 4- 1400 BC
Found Warwick.

Turn 5- 1375 BC
York's settler is done. Heads for the red spot (Gems). Workers start to hook up our spices.

Turn 6- 1350 BC
Exploring.

Turn 7- 1325 BC
Settler in London is done. I'll start moving him east; the next player can decide which spot on the dotmap he wants to settle. Two of our curraghs, having exhausted all other possiblities, depart the coast for less-safe seas. Greeks complete Collossus.

Turn 8- 1300 BC
One of those curraghs spots coast. Vikings demand Mysticism. I'll give gold but not techs. We tell the Vikings to shove off, and off they go.

Turn 9- 1275 BC
Newcastle founded on Red spot. One of our curraghs gets in the coast. Spots the borders of Greece. Our other curragh spots what could be the borders of either Persia or the Hittites.

Turn 10- 1250 BC
The Alabama sinks one tile away from meeting Persia/Hittites. The Montgomery is in range of Greece, the next player can contact them and trade if possible. The Intrepid is being moved north- the next player can attempt to contact Persia/Hittites using the path the Alabama took, or forge another...

Settler fortified in Hastings, waiting for an escort from London, a spearman. The next player should be able to start moving them on turn 3 of his set. Nottingham working on temple (23 turns) to get the fish. Are we planning on hooking up our iron, by the way? Just curious.I know some people like to delay, preferring warrior upgrades..

Vikings and Babylonians down a few techs; Arabia UP one (Math) Netherlands even with us.

I've had a quick peek at the save and the most important point to note is that the Vikings have Map Making! It will cost us an arm and a leg but...

It might be worth waiting until we make contact with Greece (or whoever is sickly Green) before trading for it but certainly no longer as we want to colonise the East island ASAP.

Good turns SC :thumbsup: Writing for peace was exactly the right way to go. Bad luck with that long suicide run :(

One question: you say our Workers start to hook up Spices. Where? :confused:

Roster
Tinkez ==> up
Tallanas
Bede
mtgfreak
TedJackson
Smellincoffee


Ted

No gripes from the monk, SC. Well done on the peace deal and the trade with Willie. Taking the money first is usually a sound idea, and anytime you can get two techs and cash for one, you're ahead. In effect Willie paid you 19g for a peace treaty with Abu.

On the deal with Map Making waiting for the next contact is sound, as they may already have it and now we are buying at third instead of second; if they don't, we can afford it and we can get it back from the rest pretty quickly.

Oops, Incense. I've been playing this game for almost a year and I still get my luxes confused. :lol:

Got it. Will play tomorrow.

-Tinkez

Pre-Turn: Newcastle was founded on a different spot what I thought was planned. I wake settler and move him towards cyan spot. Lucky moves from mountain to meet the settler next turn. One regular warrior goes scouting for possible barbs from Coventry. Vikings would need a lot of stuff for MM. Wait for green contact first. Hit enter.

1225BC(1):We meet the Greek. They have horseback riding and math up on us, we have writing. They have 7 cities and 97 gold, dyes and furs as a luxury. We could now buy MM from Vikings, but currently we do not have settlers ready for settling the next island. We need a harbor for upgrading the curragh being produced in Warwick. Set pre-build for harbor in Canterbury. After some thought I think that we do have to get to the next island as soon as possible, because there are a lot of goody huts there. We have warriors, so let's get those there. Therefore I do following: Trade writing+45gp to math with the Greek. Then trade MM from vikings for masonry+mystiscm+295gp+8gpt. Did not want to spend all of our cash reserves and gave gpt instead. Change Nottingham from Temple to Galley. Whip that galley ready, one citizens dies in the process.

1200BC(2):Oxford is founded. Rise lux to 20% as London grows and I load one warrior (Hunter) to our new galley. MM Hastings to produce barracks in 1 turn for the cost of growth.

IBT: Greek ask us to leave

1175BC(3):Build an embassy with the greek. They are building pyramids, due in 31turns. Intrepid sails to the ocean in hope of seeing new civilization.

1150BC(4): Unload spearman to next isle on top of GH->angry warrior :( Make RoP with Greek in order to help our curragh movement and get 32gp on top of the deal.

IBT: The barbs do not attack our spearman. He's trapped as I unloaded Hunter on other spot.

1125BC(5): Intrepid reaches other coast and spots yellow and pink borders. Intrepid is still on sea, so hope it does not sink... *Crossing fingers*. Load trapped spearman back to galley.

IBT: GRRAAAGGH! Intrepid sinks!! DAMN! :mad: :mad:

1100BC(6): Nothing much. Move Hunter and spearman next to GH's. Cross fingers again.

1075BC(7): Pop both GH's. Barbs appear from both of them. Damn with my luck. Greek have discovered Polytheism.

IBT: Spearman wins against 2 barbs and promotes to veteran. Hunter dies against first barb.

1050BC(8): Load first settler to galley in order to colonize the next island.

IBT: Spear wins again against a barb, no promotion :(

1025BC(9): MM London and York to grow and produce settler in 1.

1000BC(10): Liverpool is founded on the next island.

That's it. Good luck to the next player. There are a couple of trades available : Math to vikings for 390gp (did not trade as that did not help us). MM+40gp to greek for HBR+Polytheism. This might be good but greek may have contact with the yellow and the pink. If traded, we might lose chance for being in the middle of the trades. Unfortunately we have only one curragh out there exploring... one galley will be ready next turn though.

The save is here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/ScoutXA-1000_BC.SAV)

-Tinkez

Sounds good Tinkez! Glad we got to the next island...

I'll get to this tomorrow...

A couple of remarks:

-There are two ready settlers on our main island. They can be either transported to the next island, which is my preference, or can be used to settle our own island. The next island should be settled before vikings do that, therefore I would head there and fill our island afterwards.

-There is also a vet archer ready to be dropped to the next island for some barb hunting. With an spearman it would be a good barb hunting pair.

-Liverpool should start on a harbor immediately as we need to connect both the horses and the wines. We have a harbor coming up on the main island in a couple of turns.

-If someone has time, a dotmap for city placement on the second isle would be nice...

Good luck Tallanas!

Tinkez

Pre-flight - Hmm, not having seen the save yet, I now realise that Newcastle was founded on a different spot... So the question is, is it ever worth re-founding a city? As it stands, we miss out on 2 plains and 3 grasslands squares. The new island looks nice by the way, and we should try to come up with one agreed upon dotmap, to avoid confusion in the future :)

I don't normally like changing builds when I inherit a set of turns, but I swap York from barracks to settler... :blush: Hastings has a barracks, and can produce all the units we'll need.

IBT - Hastings warrior>archer; Warwick galley>temple(for whales)

Turn 1 - 975 BC

Curragh finds pink borders, but no contact. Move the archer to the new island, spearman discovers another barb camp en route to the prime land near the river.

IBT - Germans build Oracle; London settler>settler;

Turn 2 - 950 BC

Curragh meets French at Besancon; They have Polytheism but not mapmaking, no luxuries and 10 cities. No real deals to be done, but it will make Poly cheaper when we do buy it... The settler/archer/spear team move out from Liverpool.

IBT - Canterbury harbour>temple; spear defeats barb attack; Arabs start Temple of Artemis, as do the Greeks.

Turn 3 - 925 BC

Some military movement, some forest chopping with workers.

IBT - nothing

Turn 4 - 900 BC

French and Greeks must have contact, since they are land neighbours. Unfortunately, the curragh cannot contact Yellow any time soon, so I may have to sell Mapmaking to the French and Greeks now. Between the two of them, we get Polytheism, HBR and 100 gold. Not great, but not awful...

IBT - Dutch start Lighthouse

Turn 5 - 875 BC

Oh the vagueness of Civ map reading. The French and the Greeks are not land neighbours after all... :rolleyes: However, not much was lost, as by the time France got mapmaking, it was at sixth...

Some worker and military moves...

IBT - London settler>settler; Hastings archer>spear; Oxford temple>granary;

Turn 6 - 850 BC

Meet the Germans, who are Yellow! They are annoyed to see us, too... Such a pleasant race... However, they are backward, lacking Maths, Mapmaking, HBR and Polytheism; they have dyes, furs and only FOUR cities.

We now have four settlers on the new island, I will produce a first draft dotmap later on...

IBT - nothing

Turn 7 - 825 BC

Archer clears a barb camp, but is redlined in the process.

IBT - nothing

Turn 8 - 800 BC

Usual, worker moves and military shenanigans..

IBT - Spearman beats off a barb attack; Vikings have researched or bought HBR and maths... :hmm: Who did they meet? - tempting to sell them Maths for their huge bankroll...

Turn 9 - 775 BC

Dover settled next to spices... Spear and settler move towards horses. NO!! Ragnar is already there!! :gripe:

He just signed his death warrant, I think.

IBT - Coventry rax>spear; Liverpool worker>harbour;

Turn 10 - 750 BC

Desperation measures called for - Ragnar's settler has moved west, so our spear escort attacks a barb to the east, wins and moves there with the settler - it's now a race, though Ragnar has the advantage.

Some minor moves, and that's it... Over to Brother Bede...

End notes - as you can see, Nottingham is rioting - unfortunately, on the last turn, it grew to four and went from one happy, two content, to one happy, one content, two sad... :rolleyes:

Here's a mini of the known world...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/ScoutX750mini.JPG

And here's a first draft dotmap for the island. Note that I have only done the first ring, since I doubt we'll have many culture buildings here soon. Personally, I would recommend building military units rapidly, attacking Ragnar and trying to farm a Great Leader, then rushing a FP at either Liverpool or the grey site below...

Also note that the dotmap only covers the north half of the island...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/ScoutXdots750.JPG

Also...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/ScoutX750deals.JPG

I'm not the boss of this game but... I haven't used CrpMapStat before.

How is it that babylon shows as having the whee and Mysticism for sale? Because if you don't have these techs, you have no right to know that other civs have Poly or HBR.

Am I missing something?

That's techs to sell them...

We are way ahead of them. Techs that we can't see (i.e. two ahead of where we are) would not appear on that utility at all.

Edit - to make this clearer, CrpMapStat doesn't show you anything that you could not find out yourself, either by trawling through every diplomacy dialogue every turn, or by manually checking every city every turn for happiness and border expansions. The utility just takes the pain out of this, and lets you concentrate on the fun stuff.

I use it because I find the diplomacy screen unintuitive and fiddly. In SGs, I would either make more mistakes without it, or would delay the game if I tried to do it all manually. I don't think either would be fair on my team-mates.

Ouch: I assumed you were behind in tech. Not ahead. :eek:

Ouch: I assumed you were behind in tech. Not ahead. :eek:

You're forgiven :) It is after all, a no research variant!

Just goes to show what happens when you pit human brains against AI "brains"

Also, see edit above for a better explanation... ;)

Tal

Good moves from both Tinkez & Tallanas :thumbsup:

Looks like our first war will be with the Vikings :)

Roster
Bede ==> up
mtgfreak
TedJackson
Smellincoffee
Tinkez
Tallanas


Ted

Will go to war tonight, maybe.

Any suggestions on Newcastle?

Newcastle?

Lift and drop ;)

JM1A 750BC to 550BC

The complete turn log was lost when I fumble fingered the save, but here's the gist:

Consoilidated the East Island using the dotmap locations provided by Tallanas, with one small exception, moving the town on the NW corner 1 tile NE.

Ragnar's settler pair ended up flitting around in the north, then headed south so we claimed the coastal hill and grassland tiles, no problem. I popped a GH full of Vandals to put some barbarians in their face and to impede their southern progress. Ragnar also landed a settler pair in the northern tundra of the home island but there are some warriors handy to watlz with them.

On the home island there is a settler on the black spot, and another in the far western town heading for Land's End. Newcastle was disbanded and moved to the sand spit on the same turn the town on the spot NW of the rubble was built.

Opened embassies with a lot of people to get a better handle on who knows whom. This grid is the result:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Grid.gif

I also did a lot of map reading and discovered a likely looking place for another sizable island and dispatched a galley towards it. I also found a Hittite border and the Montgomery is sailing toward it along the coast of France.

I opened RoP's with France, Germany and Ragnar to ease the ship travels and to get Ragnar favorably disposed towards us, as about the middle of the set Abu tried to extort tech from us, I refused and he declared war. Hired his close neighbor Willie of the Wooden Shoes as an ally for 15gpt and hoped he would either use the money to research something useful, or save it so he can use it to buy stuff from us. Ragnar's spear and setler are heading south on East Island towards Abu's borders down there, if they survive the barb trap. Check the diplomatic screen every opportunity and as soon as Ragnar meets Abu, hire him on our side too.

There has been no change on the technology front other than the Greeks learning Currency. Abu and Ragnar had money but no new technology, so I made no deals with them as we don't need the money and I would rather trade tech for tech at this stage, as we have only cash to offer Greece for Currency and he doesn't want to trade. The embassy investigations revealed that most of the neighbors were at 60-80% science with the exception of Ragnar who is , or was when I opened the embassy, at 100%.

Ragnar built the Big Light Bulb and Maya built the Pyramids during this set. Most everybody else is working on the ToA or the Maus Haus.

As for the homeland cities, once we get one more town down, in addition to the two settlers almost in place it may be time to go to worker production in London and York, warriors everywhere we have barracks. Hook up the iron once we have ten or so vet warriors available and upgrade to swords.

Do we want to start planning for a Great Library build? I'm thinking why not wait for somebody else to build it then take it away from them so we can use its effect for the more expensive MA technologies. Timed right and as long as we don't buy Education we can use it to slingshot all the way across the MA and into the IA. (Microbe pulled it off in CVN1 with a suicide mission and got the Romans out of a horrendous technology hole caused by a mod with lowered corruption. It was in that game I learned that corruption is our friend as we can manage it and the AI can't. With reduced corruption the AI has an empire from the beginning that churns out science like Communism or Democracy).

I've attached a couple of pictures showing the exploration paths and the likely location of another landmass.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1AEX~2.png

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1AEX~1.png

got it, will play in the morning

Looking good Bede :thumbsup:

Just two small points for mtgfreak: the taxman at Hastings can be fired and there's a new border to be investigated South of Argos:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-550BC-Contact.jpg

Good luck


Ted

Pre turn check: Fire the taxman at hastings, it grows in 9

Turn 1: London Settler-> Settler, Hastings Warrior->Settler, Liverpool Worker -> Worker, Settler founds Exeter on pink spot, workers mine near york, archer kills barb

IBT barb kills archer

Turn 2: Brighton Worker-> worker, Norwich worker->archer, move archer to exeter, Coventry Warrior-> Settler

IBT: Fortified archer in exeter kills barb

Turn 3: Moving around

Turn 4: Warwick Temple-> Galley, found Cambridge on Green spot, could get wines and 370 from Scandinavia but realize wines is 6 turns from being hooked up

Turn 5: York Settler->Settler, Reading Worker->Archer, crack the whip on leeds to finish harbor, found Gloucester on yellow spot, contact hittites

IBT: Barb dies to warrior, Vikings found Molde on worthless tundra on home island

Turn 6: Hastings Settler-> Settler, Oxford Granary-> Settler, Leeds Harbor-> Spearman, find iron on secondary island

Turn 7: London Settler-> Settler, get 2gpt +180g for horseback riding from dutch, Get currency from Greece for 1550g + 2gpt, build embassy with babylon for 55g

IBT: Vikings found Alesund on secondary island near spices

Turn 8: Got maps from goody hut

Turn 9: Dover Worker->Archer, see dutch city on secondary island

Turn 10: Road to iron finished, York Settler-> Settler, Warwick Galley-> Galley, found Bristol on black spot in home island

Vikings have construction and are willing to trade it for currency, dutch have construction also

Tallanas, MTG is a trading card game

Ah yeah, now I get it - Magic, the Gathering, right?

Good turns too. I checked out the save, and it looks like the settling is going well on the second island, and the map making looks good also. Now we just need lots of military...

Just checking above - is that right 1550 for currency, or was it 150?

@Tal,
190g for currency at monopoly is not possible. When I checked Greece's price it was more than what we could raise even with over 1000g in the treasury. 1590g is about 2X value.

Buying at monopoly for cash when you don't have counter parties with techs and/or cash to make up the difference is commercial suicide. That's why I suggested trading tech for tech with a little cash thrown in on either side depending on the relative values. (BTW, you can get an approximation of knowledge values by cranking up research to the max and multiplying the turns required by the income delta from 0% to 100%.)

220g for HBR from the Dutch is about right given our position with it but I would rather have waited for them to have used the 15gpt we are paying them to fight the Arabs to research something else which we then could have traded for HBR.

Trading Currency for Construction will recover only half the investment. Can we get cash from the other guys as well? As I recall the situation the only people with cash were the Vikings and the Arabs....

Looking through the CrpMapstat screen it appears we can get close to recovery by peddling everthing we know, starting with the Vikings, then the French, then Sumeria, the Hittites and ending with the Dutch. Germany and Babylon are so broke they don't even get invitations to the party. (These island maps must be really hard for scientific nations that aren't commercial.)

Got it


Ted

Team,

I will be heading at Saturday morning for a work trip for a week and a half. I'll have Internet connection most of the time, but if the game is moving fast, I might not be able to react quick enough when my turn is up. I can play on my laptop during my trip. I will check the forums whenever possible.

-> I can be skipped if needed until 29th of July.

JM1A-350BC

Pre-flight checks... OK

0 - 350BC
I'll need to switch quite a few builds as I only see 7 sites to settle and we currently have 4 Settlers + 5 under construction. We also need a Harbour on East Island ASAP and some Swords.
Richmond switches to Warrior and hires taxman (cheaper happiness)
Lux 0%
Nottingham switches to Settler (pop control)
Liverpool switches to Harbour (multiple benefits & can pop rush sooner if it switches now)
Cambridge switches to Worker
Gloucester switches to Worker
Hastings switches to Sword
Oxford switches to Barracks
Sell Currency to Vikings for Construction + 292gp
Sell Currency to France for 136gp
Sell Currency to Sumeria for 134gp
Sell Polytheism to Hittites for 109gp
Sell Polytheism to Netherlands for 93gp
Upgrade 2 Warriors @ 60gp ea

IBT
Germany declares war on Greece :)
Nottingham Settler - Spear
Hastings Sword - Sword
Richmond Warrior - Warrior (MP)
Order restored at Richmond
Vikings start Temple of Artemis
Greece starts Statue of Zeus
Hittites start Temple of Artemis

1 - 330BC
Settlers head for sites on East Island
Settler boards Galley at Nottingham
Settler lands on East Island to the Southeast of Richmond
Ships explore
Workers work
Arabia, France & the Vikings have Monarchy (All 3 are in Anarchy)
Sell Construction to France for Monarchy + 7gp (all she had)
Liverpool whips Harbour
Revolution! [i]Have to do it now as Arabia, France & Vikings are in the same boat and no sign of CoL or Phiolosophy.[/b]
We draw 3 turns of Anarchy - not bad considering the size of our empire
No Clowns needed!

IBT
Liverpool Harbour - Spear
Richmond riots - must have misread the faces :blush:
Netherlands start Great Wall

2 - 310BC
Settlers press on - one lands next to barb camp :(
Workers work
Ships explore - Curragh spots dark Red border
and transport troops & Settlers
Richmond hires taxman
Exeter hires taxman
Norwich hires taxman

IBT
Game crashes to desktop :( - reload & replay
Greece wants MA vs Germany - No thanks

3 - 290BC
Leicester founded (dispersing barb camp)
Carlisle founded
Settlers advance
Workers work
Curragh makes contact with Byzantium (annoyed) - they are down Masonry, Writing, Mysticism & HBR

IBT
Byzantium asks us to leave - we comply
Leicester ransacked by barbs for 42gp
Enter Monarchy :)
France starts Hanging Gardens

4 - 270BC
Vikings are in Monarchy (avg)
Arabia Monarchy (we're weak)
France Monarchy (avg)
Greece Anarchy
Sumeria Anarchy
The rest are still Despotism

Richmond & Norwich fire taxmen
Ipswich founded
Ships explore
Workers work
Upgrade 2 vet Warriors

IBT
Coventry Sword - Sword
Brighton Worker - Harbour (Fish & Whales)
Vikings start Hanging Gardens

5 - 250BC
Land Settler
Ships explore
Workers work
Gloucester hires taxman

IBT
France asks us to leave - I comply
Sumeria & Greece sign MA vs Germany
Settler killed by barb
London Settler - Barracks
Reading Warrior - Barracks
Greece starts Hanging Gardens
Athens (Greece) completes Temple of Artemis
France cascades to Hanging Gardens & Great Wall
Sumeria cascades to Hanging Gardens
Sumer (Sumeria) completes Hanging Gardens

6 - 230BC
Horses online :)
Galley meets Portugal (annoyed) - down Monarchy, up CoL
France, Greece & Portugal have CoL
Establish Embassy with Sumeria (53gp)
Establish Embassy with Byzantium (70gp)
Establish Embassy with Portugal (65gp)
Establish Embassy with Hittites (59gp)
Establish Embassy with Germany (76gp)
Sell Monarchy to Portugal for CoL
Buy MA vs Arabia for Polytheism from Babylon

IBT
Cambridge Worker - Harbour
Vikings start MoM
Arabia starts Great Wall
Mecca (Arabia) completes Great Wall
Greece cascades to SoZ

7 - 210BC
Spices hooked up
Portsmouth founded popping GH for Literature
Ships explore
Workers work
Vikings & Arabia have Philosophy

IBT
Hittites & Sumeria sign MA vs Germany
York Barracks - Market
Canterbury Granary - Settler
Birmingham Harbour - Galley
Gloucester Worker - Warrior
Vikings start MoM
France starts MoM

8 - 190BC
Ships explore - contact Ottomans (annoyed) who're down Maths, CoL, Lit & Map Making
Workers work
Dover hurries Temple (200gp) - Birka (Vikings has expanded border and we don't want to lose our Spices)
France has Philosophy
Buy Philosophy from France for 276gp
Establish Embassy with Ottomans (78gp)

IBT
Viking Galley spotted in the North
France & Hittites sign MA vs Germany
Nottingham Worker - Worker
Hastings Sword - Horse
Dover Temple - Spear
Norwich Spear - Barracks
Bristol Warrior - Worker

9 - 170BC
Ships explore
Workers work
Greece has Engineering but we can't afford it

IBT
Viking Galley arrives NE Molde - we may lose the race to the last site on our continent :(
Warwick Harbour - Spear
Oxford Barracks - Worker
Exeter Spear - Barracks

10 - 150BC
Ships explore
Workers work
Still can't afford Engineering

Notes & save follow...


Ted

Notes
I have a plan to grab the Iron hill on the East Island:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-150BC-IronPlan.jpg
Simply sail the ship all the way through & land the 2 Swords S of the Iron Hill. There's a Settler under construction at Canterbury and a Galley waiting to transport him over. You can wait for the Settler to disperse the barb camp or use the Swords to mop them up.

I think we're going to lose the race to the last site on our homeland. But it gives us an excuse to build up our military and go to war with the Vikings.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-150BC-Settler.jpg

The workers are mainly concentrating on improvements at York as this is our most powerful city at present. The team that has just chopped could road (1) and mine(3) the tile they stand on.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-150BC-Workers.jpg

We still have some exploring to do and the last AI to find. Here's our intrepid explorers.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-150BC-Curragh.jpg http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-150BC-Galley.jpg

We have a monopoly on Literature, which we should hang onto as a bargaining chip for Republic unless we get a spate of AI entering the Middle Ages. At present only Greece has Engineering so it's well worth waiting until he trades it around before buying in.

There are quite a few wars in progress and I roped Babylon into our war with Arabia as they're close neighbours. We'll need to attack the Vikings fairly soon. Certainly before Chivalry allows them to build Beserkers.

The save is > here < (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/JM1A-150BC.zip)


Ted

Eventful turns. :thumbsup:

IIRC, Berzerks come with Invention (archer upgrade and longbow replacement), so anything we can do to keep Engineering out of circulation is a good thing, or at least out of the hands of the Vikings.

Nice of Ragnar to build training camps for us. Too bad he didn't join in against Arabia.

Took a look at the dipomatic screen. It is odd that a seafaring nation with the GLight apparently only knows the closest neighbors :hmm:, though looking at the map he has villes not all that far from the Greeks (only about 10 sea squares between Karasjok and Pharsalos).

It looks like we have a settlement spot between Gloucester and Cambridge on the home island

Looks good, Ted :)

The more I think about UU, the more nervous I get! I certainly don't want to see Berserkers or Ansar Warriors running around our island...

Roster check:
Smellincoffee==========>UP :bump:
Tinkez - on sabbatical until 29th
Tallanas - on deck
Bede
mtgfreak
TedJackson

Got it, will play tomorrow.

:bump: itty :bump:

Thanks for the bump Bede.

I've been a little busy and I seem to be "up" in most of my SGs at the moment :)

Any progress SC?


Ted

No. This is the first I've been online in a couple of days. :(

The next player should go ahead and take it; I've been working all day for the past two days and it looks like today is going to be another full day of it. Three cheers for physical labor!

Roster check:
Tallanas - UP
Bede
mtgfreak
TedJackson
Smellincoffee-Working too hard
Tinkez -on sabbatical until 29th

Edit - vicious crosspost!

Got it...

You're up! We crossposted.

Take it away.

Pre-flight check...

I see that William has a worker for sale, so i offer him Philosophy for the slave and 125 gold. Maybe with philo in the bag, he'll start on Republic... We still can't afford Engineering... No research in the Middle Ages could get quite expensive. Is it worth building the GL?

IBT - nothing.

Turn 1 - 130 BC

Move the swords around to the iron hill, and lots of worker stuff. Nothing else of import.

IBT - London rax>spear; Leeds spear>granary; Athens finishes Statue of Zeus;

Turn 2 - 110 BC

Disperse the barbarian camp near the iron; worker moves galore. I have found the last AI :) Just dark blue borders at the moment...

IBT - Oxford worker>worker;

Turn 3 - 90 BC

Barb clearance gives us an elite sword. 3 clowns need to be hired for one turn until MPs complete...

IBT - Portugal and France ally vs Germany. Notts worker>market; Hastings horse>sword; Cant settler>settler;

Turn 4 - 70 BC

The last civ are the Maya; looks like they have no contacts and are quite backward... he has four cities and hasn't even discovered alphabet. I offer him a book to copy from. It occurs to me that he's playing a no research variant as well...

IBT - An Arab ship appears.

Turn 5 - 50 BC

The Arabs and Vikings have Literature! :rolleyes:

IBT - York market>Great Library (I'll explain why below);

Turn 6 - 30 BC

More of the same, some military moves on the island, some worker stuff at home...

IBT - Germany wants a military alliance vs the Hittites. No thanks. Arabia wants peace, but won't offer anything, and since we have alliances, I say no, for now. ROP with Vikings lapses

Turn 7 - 10 BC

More exploring, working, disperse a camp; no trades to do... Greece would accept Literature, 97gpt and 1180 gold for engineering. Ack.

IBT - London spear>market; Brighton harbour>temple (whale)

Turn 8 - 10 AD

Arab warrior moves into range... 2 horsemen board ship bound for island.

IBT - Trondheim completes mausoleum

Turn 9 - 30 AD

Found Bath, near the iron hill. Bit of a dump, for now to be honest. I'm beginning to wonder what's going on with the AI scientists... ONE middle age advance so far??

IBT - nothing of interest

Turn 10 - 50 AD

Me and my big mouth! Greece have Republic, Mono, and Engineering; Sumeria have Mono and Engineering; Portugal have Mono; none have Literature, so let's see what we can do. N.B I'm leaving this for Bede, as it's a bit off to do loads of deals on turn 10 ;)

Greece will pay 25gpt+80g for Lit... There seems to be plenty of trading potential here - Have fun with it, Brother Bede!

Wipe out another barb settlement near Middelburg...

Notes for Bede :)

I started the GL since there were no other urgent options, and for the sake of 25 turns production from one city, several early MA techs would be excellent value. Especially at the price Alex wants for them... It could also easily be a prebuild for something else if the team are inclined to change this.

Militarily the Arabs don't seem terribly threatening, which is why I prolonged the war, apart from the possible implications to our rep if the MA had been turfed. There was no opportunity for pointy-sticking, either.

The second island is now full, pretty much, and all other expansion will have to be through war. I suggest prosecuting the war with the Arabs, and trying to farm a Leader or two. We *badly* need one for the FP on the second island. The Dutch/Arab island will one day make a nice SPHQ location, and will be called Island 3 ;)

Edit - we are strong compared to the Vikings and the Arabs, so maybe a dual war would be a good idea. There are certainly more Viking targets than Arab ones, so for the early battles, maybe Ragnar would be a better bet...

Looking good.

Got it.

Play tonight.

0-50
What a nice tidy little realm. There are four luxes hooked up, one tradeable and with another little town on the island we will have a second and with a road across the mountain at Richmond a second. We have horses and iron with spares not yet connected.

The geopolitical and scientific knowledge situation requires some thought.

Ragnar is on our doorstep and is still spending hs treasury on science as he has no gpt to spare (verifed by offerng Incense for which he will pay 0gpt)) and he is militarily weak.

The Dutch are on our east island with two little towns, are in Despotism, lack Currency, Literature and Monarchy.

Sumeria and the Greeks know Engineering and Monotheism, the Greeks know Republic but remain in Monarchy.

The Sumerians are far away, know only the Greeks and the French.

I don't really want Engineering yet, as knowing it will only make it cheaper for the Scandanavians, but I am tempted by the possibility of stealing Monotheism from Sumeria. they are embroiled in the Greco-Frank war with Germany, allied with the Greeks.

My problem with buying or stealing technology right now is the lack of brokerage opportuinites.We could give up Literature and all our treasury for Republic and then trade Republic and cash to Sumeria for Monotheism but again we lack counter parties with anything of value.

Given the size of the map and the number of other nations, I will let things percolate for a while.

After some more pondering I think I've found the key to the advances of the nations in the Greek Sphere of Influence. Greeks and Sumeria are both relatively wealthy and scientific. When they made their into the MA they pulled two different techs and Henry of Portugal bought Montheism from one of them.

Spot a village east of Alesun that just might hold some value for us so send some troops to hit the barb camp and visit the neighbors. Hope they are peaceful.

1-70AD
Pump York's population up to 12 with wokrers and then re-assign citizens to max production.

2-90AD
Cancel the alliance with the Dutch as Willie is our next target, I think. Here is the plan: set up horsemen and swords to attack Middleburg, then sell Willie a new government. As so as he revolts attack Middleburg, get Willie off East Island, then take a peace deal. Willie lacks iron so the strongest oppostion we will face will be archers and spears and maybe a horseman or two.

3-110AD
Sack a barbarian camp and collect 25g

Netherlands and Arabs sign a peace treaty.

The Arabs have learned Literature and start the Great Library in Mecca pop8 and poorly developed.

4-130AD
The Scandanvains have learned Feudalism. Time for some horse trading.

Buy Monotheism from Henry for Literature and 1300g. Fair price And the idiot Ragnar won't deal :mad:

The German war starts winding down as Germany and Sumeria sign a peace treaty.

And Abu lands a warrior and settler on East Island.

Portugal starts the Great Library and the volcano erupts all over Molde. :lol:

5-150AD
Found The Mumbles between Cambridge and Gloucester

Sell Literature to Willie for 181g

Vikings start SunT's

6-170
Get 50g from the Goths
Destroy the Arab village of Mansura
Sell Literature to Sumeria for 140g +5gpt and to the Greeks for 33g and 12gpt
Lose a galley to the Arab.

Spend some of it rushing a settler out of Reading

The Dutch and the Greeks and the Sumerians start the Great Library

7-190
Cancel the Alliance with the Babs.

8-210

9-230

Steal Republic from the Greeks for 1500g and Ragnar the greedy wants Republic, Monotheism and 100gpt for Feudalsim, Sumeria will sell Engineering for Republic and 5gpt or he will buy Republic for 25g and 35gpt. This one will take some thinking on, for if we buy Engineering then we lower the cost to Ragnar on his way to Invention, but I decide it is worth it to increase the value of the Great Library.

These Middle Ages techs are getting expensive.and it is completely throwing me off my stride.

10-250AD
Destroy another Arab ville founded on the rubble of the last one. Ragnar's price for Feudalism is now down to 90gpt and Republic. The trade remains on the table.

Got the equivalent of 15 turns on the GreatLib, it will finish in 7 and judging by my map reading it is a lock.

There is a little invasion force assembling on the south coast of East Island. Horsemen swords and cats I t can be turned on Ragnar or Abu or WIllie depending on one's preference.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/JM1A250AD.png


We are down only Feudalism to the Greeks and the VIkings and Feudalism can be bought from Ragnar if we wish to spend the coin.


http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=62791

i got it, but ill wait to see what we want to do with the techs

Nice work Bede :thumbsup:

im gonna have to request a skip, im rather busy as of the next week, and then im going on vacation

Sorry,

I'll have to skip this time :(

Which means that... Smellincoffee is up!


Ted

woolly-backed sheep-botherers

Takes one to know one :lol:

Looking good here guys. I think it is pretty interesting that your team and ours have been the tech leaders most of the anchient era. Keep up the good work.

This thread may win "Most DotMaps Ever Award" :D

Takes one to know one :lol:

Looking good here guys. I think it is pretty interesting that your team and ours have been the tech leaders most of the anchient era. Keep up the good work.

This thread may win "Most DotMaps Ever Award" :D

How dare you imply I'm Welsh!

As to the spam, I like to think that (almost) at least half my posts are constructive... :mischief:

Like this one... Err... We need more discussion from us Silver Wings! Come on MTGFreak and SC - don't make me do it alone!!

EDIT - SC, are you there? In order to progress this game smoothly, we really need to try to stick the the 24/48 rule...

:bump:

Anyone out there?

I am but I don't think that counts.

With Ted skipped and not online, and SC not answering, shall we move on to Tinkez?

probably, consider this my one week warning as i am going on vacation for two weeks on saturday

I think Tinkez is also on sabbatical until tomorrow the 29th, so if you can play, take it away and we'll slot Tinkez in after you.

Ok, "got it" - will play today.

Apologies to the team but RL has reared its ugly head and it looks as if the next month, at least, will be too full for me to play any Civ. This leaves me with no option but to retire from all my SGs :(

Hopefully I'll be back in the autumn.


Ted

Hello?!? Anyone out there? Tallanas, have you played?

My apologies guys, I looked at the wrong week of the calander. I'm actually back a day before I thought I would be (lots of RL stuff to do for church and college) but I wrote down the wrong date in my sig. :blush:

Hmmm... At least me and SC are around, if Tallanas does not show up by tomorrow evening, he will be skipped :p

Let's get this game moving again (even though Ted is not pushing us anymore :( )

Sorry guys, I was looking to play the 29th, but things got hectic and my weekend was total chaos... All my SGs have come along at once as well, so a skip would be sensible this time. Sorry!

Tinkez, I think it's yours if you want it.

Clearly it's time for Bede-sama to get his whip out of the closet. :)

Got it then!

I'll try to play tonight, but I may have to postpone it until tomorrow. Report coming up anyway during next two days.

10-250AD
Destroy another Arab ville founded on the rubble of the last one. Ragnar's price for Feudalism is now down to 90gpt and Republic. The trade remains on the table.

Got the equivalent of 15 turns on the GreatLib, it will finish in 7 and judging by my map reading it is a lock.

There is a little invasion force assembling on the south coast of East Island. Horsemen swords and cats I t can be turned on Ragnar or Abu or WIllie depending on one's preference.

We are down only Feudalism to the Greeks and the VIkings and Feudalism can be bought from Ragnar if we wish to spend the coin.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=62791

Is this the latest link to the save? It does not work for me. Bede, please post the save again.

Thanks!

Sorry guys.

This attatchment works.

Could not play last night, so I had to postpone my turns until tonight. Sorry guys. :(

Pre-turn: Nothing special - just see the situation. We're in war with Arabia, they have great wall.

We're strong compared to vikings, arabs and dutch. I just might pick an other target instead of the arabs.

I see that we don't have embassy with the mayans, so I spend 60gp to establish one. They have pyramids and are quite a small nation, might be worth focusing in the near future? They DO have 14 defenders and walls in Chichen Itza though... They are technologically backwards.

However, my main target will be the dutch before they get swiss mercenary. This also allows us to get east island totally for us and get foothold on the island to the south and we don't have to deal with the arab cities with walls.

I also see that our culture is quite weak, so we should focus building some culture. We can build libraries even though we do not have any research :crazyeye:

We also do not have forbidden palace yet, so we should cross our fingers for a leader to get a leader for quick rushing of the FP.

Hit enter to begin.

260AD (1): Make peace with Arabia. Start concentrating towards the dutch.

270AD (2): Move forces. Demand 20gp from the Dutch which we get. Surprise!
Manchester founded on east island on the desert to get the fish also.
Rush temple in Ipswich to get the cow to Manchester in 5 turns.

280AD (3): Declare war on the Dutch. Get a military alliance with arabs against the dutch for 215gp. That should allow us better movement against dutch.

IBT: Greeks and Sumerians begin sun tzu's.

290AD (4): Middleburg is ours at the cost of 2 horseman...

300AD (5): Land troops next to Delft, the last dutch outpost on east island.

IBT: Greek want alliance against germans. No way.

310AD (6): Our elite sword defeats last defender in Delft. The dutch are gone from east island.

IBT: York completes the Great Library! :D No cascade yet to other wonders. Sun Tzu will most likely complete much sooner after this.

320AD (7): I rush temple in Bath to get cultural pressure on viking Alesund. That city has spices...

IBT: We get Feudalism from the great library. Dutch attack our stack of galleys with troops loaded. We have one vet galley there without troops. Wonder which one is under attack? Well, we lost. Now I wonder even more...

330AD (8): Great. It was a loaded galley. DAMN! How come the vet unloaded galley did not get attacked???? We lost a horse and a sword :( I revenge that with the vet galley and sink that dutch galley. Our galley down to 2/4 and we see other dutch galley :(
There just aren't any deals available. Nobody want's to pay gpt for techs. Ragnar won't pay for luxury. Bah. :cry:
New London founded at the south end of east island next to the wines.

IBT: Our wounded EMPTY galley is sunk :( We need more galleys.

340AD (9): Rush one more temple at Manchester. Now I think east island is strong in culture against the vikings and also we should have a decent chance for a flip in Alesund.

IBT: "The rampaging Greek forces have destroyed the Germans."

350AD (10): Nothing special.

Notes: There are swords in Delft, but also Dutch galleys just next to it. They may have forces loaded ready for counter-attack.

I concentrated on infrastructure on my turns along getting the east island for us. Next player should spend couple of turns to gather forces for invasion to Dutch island.

York is building cathedral but it can be changed to a wonder. Might be a good idea?

Good luck!

The save is here! (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/JM1A-350_AD.SAV)

I think our main concern with the game currently is slow tech pace. We can't get good deals on new techs and other civs are doing slow research. With this pace it'll take a long time to get to modern age and spaceship launch.

The question is: Should we bring other, smaller, civs to equal tech level than us even though it would not help us? I think the team should give their input on this issue before continuing. After all, our goal is spaceship victory without research and that requires the other civs to do the research...

Overall, we should keep a couple of strong civs in the game to do the research for us and maybe even consider involving them to a war with a weaker neighbour and help them grow.

What do you think? :confused:

I think we should sell techs to smaller civs, soaking up their economies in order to fund our progression. They wouldn't be a great help in speeding the research pace anyway, and they will help us buy techs from the larger, scientific civs.

As long as Greece and the other sci civs (Babylon, Ottomans - are there any others?) are around, the tech pace will progress, if more slowly than if we were allowed to do it ourselves ;)

Tal-UP
Bede-on deck
SmellinCoffee
???
mtgfreak-if back
Tinkez

Got it - play tomorrow, unless the world ends.

Edit - Bah! It was late when I wrote that, and what I should have said was "... unless the world ends or I CAN'T SEE THE SAVE!!"

Got it - play tomorrow, unless the world ends.

Edit - Bah! It was late when I wrote that, and what I should have said was "... unless the world ends or I CAN'T SEE THE SAVE!!"
brother bede requested my presence at this endevour and i can never refuse a direct request from such an honorable player (well, hardly never :) )

request to be thrown into TJ's spot. I can fill in till he gets back or we can just tackle this thing and knock it out before the end of august :D

@Tallanas -> link looks fine to me. you still having trouble or just engrossed in trying to figure out what to do with this situation?

Welcome aboard Graham!

And yes, i am having problems seeing the links - I can only use attachments... :rolleyes:

Welcome aboard Graham!

And yes, i am having problems seeing the links - I can only use attachments... :rolleyes:
ok, your covered ;)

Ah! Thank you ;)

Updated roster:

Tal-UP
Bede-on deck
SmellinCoffee
grahamiam
mtgfreak-if back
Tinkez

Welcome grahamiam! Thanks for joining in.

brother bede requested my presence at this endevour and i can never refuse a direct request from such an honorable player (well, hardly never :) )

Welcome aboard Grahamiam! I look forward playing with you. Nice that you could join the team :thumbsup:

@Tal,

News? Progress?

Apologies, gents, an unexpected trip to Nottingham has rather engulfed my weekend. I am now back, and will play first thing tomorrow...

Again, apologies for not even being able to post an apology.

Well first thing tomorrow turned into another no-notice trip :mad:

Things are happening here which are taking up way too much of my time, and I don't think it's fair on you guys to further disrupt this SG. I'm really sorry, but until things here improve, I'm going to have to request a skip :(

Sorry, guys.

thats ok tallanas, rl happens :) thanks for keeping us informed.

Roster update:
Tal <- skipped
Bede <-UP
SmellinCoffee <-on deck
grahamiam
mtgfreak-if back
Tinkez

Got it. No work this morning so I'll try and knock out ten.

Progress Report:

Built up an invasion force by shipping cats, trebs and MDI and swords. I've been shipping a cat or treb and a footsoldier in each galley. Took Arnhem and set up to take Maastricht. Taking Maastrict looks like it will cut the Dutch off from any trade opportunities as they have no roads leadng to their other coastal towns. The southern coastal towns on east island have trebs or cats in defense, as they are useful in wounding Dutch shipping. Sunk a small Dutch invasion force using galleys after bombardment. The Dutch have iron visible but not connected so the worst we are going to see is horsemen, spears and archers.

Arabs have been too busy fending off the Babylonians to do much with the Dutch.

Swapped York to Leonardo's due in 18 when we got Invention from the GLib as I think the cheap upgrades will be worth more to us than barracks in the home island cities. Started the FP at Ipswich, the most productive town on the east island. Founded New York in the far east of the east island. Arabs and Babylonians are at war


Sold Theology to the French. Everybody else is broke. Our income has grown nicely by nearly 100gpt as Markets and Courthouses came on line and roads are finished.

Built 5 MDI and 2 horsemen, three galleys, a couple of trebs and shipped most of them to the Dutch island.

Ragnar is sending us 5gpt for Incense and Joan is sending 12gpt for Theology.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/JM1A40AD_east.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/JM1A40AD_home.jpg

SmellinCoffee - UP
grahamiam- On deck
mtgfreak-if back
Tinkez
Tal
Bede

nice turns bede! looks like we've acheived the goal vs the dutch (get them off the eastern island) so what's the situation with the vikings? do they have invention yet? they seem to have a unit wandering around our backyard, how many others have we seen?

Vikings have Invention. Arabs have a couple of archers hanging around east island and there is a lone Viking warrior in the NE of the home island.

grahamiam- UP
mtgfreak - on deck
Tinkez
Tal
Bede
SmellinCoffee - skipped

i see it but won't get to it till tomorrow.

ok bede et al, i've tried reading up on the thread. our intent was to take the islands. well, we got'em. now what's the plan? you wanna pick on the big guy (vikings) or keep kicking the schoolchildren (arabs, dutch, etc)? or is this big enough and it's time to mass produce markets, trying to steal and deal our way to banking?

The main target in this game is to get to space. Therefore we want the AI civs to keep up the research pace and we don't want to bring scientific civs down to their knees.

In my opinion you can choose a target if you want, just try to get research pace running even faster ;)

I suggested earlier that we may want to either strengthen the scientific civs or bring other civs closer to tech parity just to widen the possibilities AI will research and also give us more opportunities to be the middleman in trades.

Good luck Grahamiam!

The main target in this game is to get to space. Therefore we want the AI civs to keep up the research pace and we don't want to bring scientific civs down to their knees.

In my opinion you can choose a target if you want, just try to get research pace running even faster ;)

I suggested earlier that we may want to either strengthen the scientific civs or bring other civs closer to tech parity just to widen the possibilities AI will research and also give us more opportunities to be the middleman in trades.

well, getting the AI into fights is the surest way to slow down the tech pace. as for the small, sci civ's, if we still need an entry level tech, then i have no problem bringing them up. if they do not, then let's wait till we get to the IA before we gift them. hey, i've seen the zulu and mongols get a tech lead if left alone, as long as they were big enough.
therefore, if we want to speed up the tech pace, we need to do the following:
1. give peace a chance (at least most of the time)
2. buy techs for gpt
3. sell for lumps of gold (not gpt)

this will be tricky as the Vikings will want to try out their zerks on someone. best to beef up the border to convince them to pick on someone else. pikes, knights, and muskets will do the trick. for now, we can buildup cash reserves, let the GLib send us tech's, and upgrade some defenders for the border towns.

As long as Ragnar doesn't want to try out his zerks on us, he has been a good neighbor and an excellent trading partner. I would be incliend to feed him luxes and gpt to keep him running down the research for us, the same goes for the Greeks.

any objections to revolting to republic? don't see the logic in a banker's gambit as a monarchy, especially when we get into the IA. we are currently 1 or 2 tech's from education so now would be a good time. After Education will be bad as we'll be hamstrung during the anarchy period.

Monarchy was chosen to get out of the despotism food penalty and the other nations had made no progress in the direction of Republic.

So by all means, invite Cromwell to London.

Monarchy was chosen to get out of the despotism food penalty and the other nations had made no progress in the direction of Republic.

So by all means, invite Cromwell to London.
okey dokey :) .......and we get a 6. not too bad for our size.

Preflight check: We are a Monarchy, this is a curious way to raise cash in a bankers gambit. Imho, republic would work better but, since I’m the new guy here, I don’t want to make that drastic a switch in the middle of the game.
Wow, we have 42 workers. Nice.

Got the ok so I do it and draw 6T. It’s anarchy in the U.K.!

Need to wait 3T till Arabs alliance runs out so no peace for the anarchist

MM all cities to avoid starvation and to prevent the anarchist from breaking the furniture. Also use this opportunity to tax starve all Dutch citizens. We make +35gpt vs +212gpt before the anarchy.

IBT: Nada, Dutch reinforce their city we are attacking with a couple of spears. Nottingham galley -> pike; Brighton market -> court

T1: 460AD Drop off an MDI and treb next to Maastricht. Cat and Treb there go 0/2 so no assault this turn.
Trade: Arabs: buy a worker for 116g.
Byz: sell Lit for 13g

T2: 470AD Arty goes 0/3 near Maastricht.

IBT: Vikings demand 22g and I cave. Bristol: Chop brings in a pike -> market

T3: 480AD Arty goes 1/3; MDI kills spear; MDI kills spear; sword redlines but kills spear; Horseman kills archer and we take the city + 2 slaves.
Good, Greece and Vikings know Gunpowder :)

T4: 490AD Nada

IBT: Arabs and Dutch sign peace. We get Gunpowder.

T5: 500AD Landscaping. Sign peace with the Dutch
IBT: We become a republic.

T6: 510AD MM cities to get clowns and taxmen working again. We now make +281gpt and we are paying +122gpt in unit support. We should replace the warriors with pikes. We should also look at that worker count in the near future as we could probably get away with 20 natives after the main island is worked over.

T7: 520AD nada

T8: 530AD Upgrade a couple of spears, a warrior, disband 2 reg warriors.

IBT: Vikings are building Knights Templar.

T9: 540AD Greece has Chivalry too so we’ll be getting that next turn as well.
Buy a Babylonian worker + 7g for Lit.

IBT: We learn Chivalry.

T10: 550AD Merge a worker into Ipswich. Units are heading to Reading to be upgraded (including a horse). I have some knight builds going and a pike here or there. Mostly, it's infrustructure, getting ready for the big push. Seems like the AI is learning something new every 5T or so. Education will probably be next.

We have 956g in the bank and make +315gpt. We could trim our military down some by getting rid of unnecessary warriors. Also, try to place a pike in all coastal towns.

good luck :)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/JM1A-550AD.JPG

Nicely done, "Oliver" grahamiam.

Tinkez - up
Tal - on deck
Bede
SmellinCoffee
grahamiam
mtgfreak - still on holiday IIRC

Getting all the cities up to max population will help with unit costs. If the terrain is pretty well developed on the home island might consider shipping some labor to the east to help with the jungle and marsh clearing.

haha, x-post. deleted for clarity :D

with gunpowder in the bag, next player should check on it's location as i forgot to during my turns :blush: i don't think we have it locally so we may require another war. also, after education, we should try to steer that AI towards banking as best we can as that will be our next critical tech.

(Decloak)
Have you guys considered Gifting the Great Lib to another Civ before you hit Edu and taking it back after a while to slingshot you a bunch of techs? I've just read SirPleb's Sid HoF game and it worked wonders for him.

(Decloak)
Have you guys considered Gifting the Great Lib to another Civ before you hit Edu and taking it back after a while to slingshot you a bunch of techs? I've just read SirPleb's Sid HoF game and it worked wonders for him.
yes, on higher levels (diety or sid) on continent or pangea or when behind, that's plausible. when several AI are able to research a new tech every 4T, it makes sense because no matter what you'll do, you will fall behind.

however, on emporer & our arch map, it would take a very long time to make it work. i think we could speed the pace up better if we wheel and deal, rather than sit on the sidelines. right now, we are at the top of the tech heap, with a very nice economy that will keep us there. giving away one of our best cities and falling behind in tech is really not in our best interest right now, especially since it can be prevented.

with gunpowder in the bag, next player should check on it's location as i forgot to during my turns :blush: i don't think we have it locally so we may require another war. also, after education, we should try to steer that AI towards banking as best we can as that will be our next critical tech.

You're right about the saltpeter. It's on the Dutch island :mischief:, so it looks like Willie will be getting some more attention soon. Also, the nations with the tech either don't have the resource to spare, or at all. :crazyeye:

Re Gifting GreatLib:
yes, on higher levels (diety or sid) on continent or pangea or when behind, that's plausible. when several AI are able to research a new tech every 4T, it makes sense because no matter what you'll do, you will fall behind.

however, on emporer & our arch map, it would take a very long time to make it work. i think we could speed the pace up better if we wheel and deal, rather than sit on the sidelines. right now, we are at the top of the tech heap, with a very nice economy that will keep us there. giving away one of our best cities and falling behind in tech is really not in our best interest right now, especially since it can be prevented.

No need for desperation tactics when we are not desperate. I would like to keep the focus on wheelin', dealin' and silver tonguin' our way to AlphaC [pimp] groucho

You're right about the saltpeter. It's on the Dutch island :mischief:, so it looks like Willie will be getting some more attention soon. Also, the nations with the tech either don't have the resource to spare, or at all. :crazyeye:
looks like i pulled the trigger on peace too soon. well, at least we'll be fighting with knights instead of MDI's and stone throwers :lol: that'll make it quick and clean, the best type of wars for a Republic :)

The Orangeman lacks any resources thanks to the Arabs so quick and clean should be no problem.

No need for desperation tactics when we are not desperate. I would like to keep the focus on wheelin', dealin' and silver tonguin' our way to AlphaC [pimp] groucho
obviously, i agree 100% :) we should also decide who we want to have Copernicus and Newtons. making sure 1 AI had both will make things interesting, for sure.

otoh, we should aim for Smith's, making it our #1 priority. Also, i'm wondering if Sistine's would be better than Leo's. We could build temples and cathedrals, then disband the temples to lower upkeep costs. 6 happy faces per catherdral is well worth the 2gpt in upkeep as it'll keep our lux tax lower. it's also a tourist attraction. Leo's will definitely be appreciated when we get salt or Nationalism so it's really a toss-up.

obviously, i agree 100% :) we should also decide who we want to have Copernicus and Newtons. making sure 1 AI had both will make things interesting, for sure.

otoh, we should aim for Smith's, making it our #1 priority. Also, i'm wondering if Sistine's would be better than Leo's. We could build temples and cathedrals, then disband the temples to lower upkeep costs. 6 happy faces per catherdral is well worth the 2gpt in upkeep as it'll keep our lux tax lower. it's also a tourist attraction. Leo's will definitely be appreciated when we get salt or Nationalism so it's really a toss-up.

IMHO, Smith's and Bach's would be a really potent combination with Leo.

IMHO, Smith's and Bach's would be a really potent combination with Leo.
for some reason, i always overlook bach's but yes, i have to agree, the 3 of them would be very potent. 2 more content faces in every city we own would be quite a boon :)

Since SmellinCoffee has not checked in for some time now I am going to declare MIA.

Accordingly I have invited coletite (another member of the GK2 crew) to join in.

Welcome aboard coletite.

Thanks Bede.

I've read through the posts. Looking forward to playing with you all.

Roster check

Tinkez - up :bump:
Tal - on deck
Bede
coletite
grahamiam
mtgfreak - still on holiday IIRC

I see it. I'll play it in the near future, whatever that means :D

im back

(stupid 10 character limit)

Pre-turn: We're in peace with the Dutch for 15 more turns -> no war for 15 turns. Don't want to ruin our reputation to get the saltpeter.

560AD: Education is discovered so GL will be obsolete next turn. Rush temple in Maastricht to prevent flip as the town is next to Amsterdam.

IBT: Sumerians start Knight's templar, we get education. GL obsolete.

570AD: Kick Dutch troops out. Start transporting some troops to east island to fortify our border cities.

580AD: France, Greece and Vikings all have Gunpowder already. Sumeria does not have and they'll pay 54gp + 30gpt for it. I'll take it for us.

590AD:Nada

IBT: Greek complete Leonardo's Workshop.

600AD: I change York to Sistine Chapel, due in 8 turns. Time to cross the fingers and hope we get that one...

610AD: Nada

620AD: Our first knight is complete (at 620AD?? )

IBT: Vikings complete Sun Tzu. Will we get Sistine??? Cascade gives Knights Templar to Sumerians. This will strenghten the Sumerians significantly...

630AD: Sistine due in 5 turns.

640AD: Scandivia has monopoly on Chemistry. He wants 3394gp+169gpt for it :rolleyes: :eek: :crazyeye: :lol:

IBT: This is what I feared. Greek city of Delphi completes Sistine chapel. :mad:

650AD: We are 3 turns short of Sistine. We have nothing to change it to. Palace would waste 50 shields, so no chance to swap it to a pre-build for next wonder. I think the best chance is to hop the palace to the middle of our main island. Other possibility is to build cathedral, but that wastes much more shields. This is an issue to discuss with the team. :confused:

In the main island we should focus maximizing the production and growth. Hastings and Coventry can use the hills and mountains with more shields if the grasslands are irrigated. I changed a few of these, but more of the mining should be replaced and the mountains should be mined. Next player should continue this task.

There is a lone galley doing suicide run when looking for a hidden treasure island in the middle of high seas. No success yet, either on sinking nor finding that island :p

In the large cities there are a clown per town hired, did not want to raise the lux tax because of those two cities.

I saved some money as our objectives were not so clear. Peace with Dutch will last at least 5 more turns, so maybe some knight rushing could be a good idea and then secure that saltpeter. We have the cash reserves and chemistry is way too expensive for now. This would also open a direct route to mayan island where there are pyramids with backward troops. Maybe some leader fishing there in the near future???

WASTE SHIELDS HERE - CHANGE SISTINE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/JM1A-650_AD.SAV)

OUCH!!

Sorry you drew the rotten turns.

I concur that moving the palace to York is the most cost efficient thing to do, or putting the FP there, though IIRC corruption is pretty minimal in York.

Contrarian thinking at work: do we need the Dutch Saltpeter? Muskets aren't much better than pikes at fending off zerks. Would be handy when we get to Metallurgy and Magnets though, I guess, since don't we need it for the Men0'War?

Roster check

Tal -UP :bump:
Bede
coletite
grahamiam
mtgfreak - welcome back
Tinkez

Tal -UP :bump: itty bump.

Roster check:

@coletite, whay don't we swap positions in the roster? Tal hasn't been heard from so let's go this way:

coletite - up
Bede - on deck
mtgfreak
grahamiam
Tal
Tinkez

Or if if coletite and mtgfreak want to swap that works too.

Fine by me. I'm also up in GK2, as Bede should know, so I'll try to get to it tonight, but it may be tomorrow morning.

Anyone want to give some overall goals to keep in mind since I'm new around here?

yep, let's get this rolling again. as far as the lost wonder build, if we want to move to the palace to the middle of the island, that's fine by me. not sure we could do better atm. but we should start another palace prebuild as we're not far away from smith's.

as far as salt goes, we'll need it for cav. imho, it's a vital resource till rubber.

Overall objective is trading our way to a space race victory. No spending on research, ever. All technology must be purchased. Consistent with that we have been trying to max gold and acquire luxes for trade.

Suggestions: look at the early posts in the thread where we discuss trading strategy. In summary we want to maximise our return by buying at third and selling down to the rest. G-man and Tinkez also have some interesting observations in their posts above.

sorry, x-posted with coletite :) welcome, now i'm not the "new guy" anymore :D good luck, 1st decision is a doozy :)

real life strikes again and i wont be able to play for the next week or so

What does "buying on third" mean?

What does "buying on third" mean?
i missed that statement when reviewing the thread. which post are you refering?

What does "buying on third" mean?

I misspoke. Meant to say "buying at third" which refers to buying technology when it has been learned by two or more nations. The price drops and you still have brokering opportunities available.

Bede's #216 referring to trading. Does it mean to buy the tech when three other civs have it then selling it to all the other civs?

[EDIT] Oops... I didn't see that there was another page and missed Bede's post. Sorry.

Pre-Flight

Switched to Palace in York

IBT

York Palace-knight
Coventry library (not sure why since we can’t research)-courthouse
Oxford knight-knight

660 AD (1)

Workers worked

IBT

Warwick aqueduct-courthouse
Birmingham temple-market
Bath library (?)-market

670 AD (2)

Not much

IBT

Hastings temple-market

680 AD (3)

Give Greece 2525 gold for Astronomy
Gave Vikings 1900g +49gpt for chemistry
Switched Richmond from granary to caravel

IBT

York Knight-knight
Notingham temple-court
Richmond caravel-caravel

690 AD (4)

Not much…

IBT

Sumeria declares on Greece
Hittites and Greeks sign alliance against Sumeria
London knight-knight
Berwick harbor-aqueduct

700 AD (5)

Still not much…

IBT

Gloucester temple-aqueduct
Mumbles ‘rax-aqueduct

710 AD (6)

Gave Coventry a taxman to avoid riot

IBT

York knight-knight
Oxford knight-knight
Exeter temple-market

720 AD (7)

Bought Banking from Sumeria for Wines, Incense and 1650g

IBT

Bristol knight-bank
Carlisle riots (my bad!) gave them a taxman

730 AD (8)

Not much

IBT

Brighton granary-courthouse
Newcastle granary-market

740 AD (9)

Gave Norwich a taxman to keep them happy

IBT

York knight-bank
Canterbury cathedral-bank
Leeds temple-bank

750 AD (10)

Not much….


We’ve got a caravel outside Richmond loaded with knights and some more knights nearby.

save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/JM1A-750_AD.SAV)

Got it. Play late tonight.

Nice opening set, coletite. BTW, libraires are good for culture, too, and we need some.

0-750AD

"therefore, if we want to speed up the tech pace, we need to do the following:
1. give peace a chance (at least most of the time)
2. buy techs for gpt
3. sell for lumps of gold (not gpt)"

In keeping with the startegy laid out by Tinkez and g-man, make the following deals:

Gems to Sumeria for 350g. The gems will strengthen his economy and I'll find a use for the gold.

Notice that Scandanavia knows Metallurgy but has no Saltpeter. There are two sources of Saltpeter in the Dutch lands, one on the coast and another next to Amsterdam :hmm:

Note that last Technology advances took place in 680 and 730 but that the tech leaders (Greece and Sumeria) are now at war. It is also interesting to note that Greece, Sumeria and Scandanivia spent most of the cash we gave them, probably on military upgrades. Offer Ragnar a RoP for 35g as I don't want him to have an excuse for a DoW. I could buy Metallurgy from him but without Saltpeter it has little value for us right now and he wants 7000g :eek:

I renegotiate an incense deal with Ragnar for 32g and an additional 12gpt.

Sell the Greeks an RoP for 45g and to the Sumerians for 65g.

Offer the Hittites Code of Laws, Wines and 430g for Ivory. Then sell him Republic for Silks and 400g. Then sell him an RoP for 60g.

Buy furs from Theodora for a basket of AA technology.

With the extra goodies in the shopping cart adjust the lux tax to 0.

The Greeks learn Music Theory and start Bach's. We have little chance of finishing it before they do as they only need 480 shields in 40 turns (we need 600 and the closest we can come is 50)

1-760
Metallurgy is now on offer from the Greeks and the Scandanavians for 165gpt. As we need saltpeter to do anything with it leave it on the table for now as we will never get close to getting our money back. I can get 11gpt and 32g from Henry of Portugal for Banking. As this price suggests he is not researching it Leave it on the table to see if can come up with more money later.

Rush settlers from towns on East Island to have some ready to fill in the Dutch coast when we go for the Saltpeter.

The Montgomery sinks :cry:

2-770
Load settlers on boats and set sail for Maastricht

3-780
The stupid Portugese spent their money on Music Theory.

Greece and Sumeria sign a Peace Treaty. The Arabs want our help against Babylon. Nope.

4-790
Scandanavia and Sumeria have learned Navigation. This is a must buy for us as it allows Map Trading. I am going to try to work it by buying Metallurgy from the Greeks and then peddling that to Sumeria for Navigation. So Metallurgy from Greeks for 160gpt, and we get Navigation and the World Map from Sumeria for Metallurgy.

And now time for a little Map trading. Henry gets our Territory map for his World Map and his 5g. Joan gets our territory map for her World map and her 5g. The Ottomans get our territory map for his world map and his 6g. Willie gets our territory map for his World map and his 8g. Ragnar gets our World Map for his map and 110g. The bankrupt nations get our territory in exchange for their world maps.

Having bought Mettlaurgy I learn that Ragnar has MilTrad. Getting real close to the time to go after the Dutch saltpeter.

Finishing the FP BTW paid for most of the buy on Metallurgy with the increase in gpt from the east island.

Sumerians start Copernicus.

5-800
Setting up for war with Dutch to seize saltpeter.

6-810
Time for some more map trading:
World Map to Greeks for 71g +12gpt and his World Map
Territory Map to Gligamesh for his World Map and 13g

7-820
World Map to Mursilis of the Hittites for 17g and 3gpt and his World Map
World Map to Portugal for their World Map and 11g

We are about set to take the Dutch saltpeter. If we wait a bit longer the price for MilTrad will drop. My thinking here is wait for Miltrad to come our way at less than extorionate prices. Drop the settler waiting off shore on the Saltpeter hill. Cover it with the knights waiting at Maastricht, build a town on hte hill, short rush a barracks, upgrade the knights to cavalry and the trebs to cannon, hit the little town on the peninsula, then capture Utrecht with the cavalary and cannon, take Utrecht and make peace.

8-830
Scandanvia has learned Physics

9-840
Trade Theology to the Hittites for 30g and 15gpt
Trade Portugal Banking for 19g and 3gpt

I'm wishing somebody would learn Printing Press so we could paper the world with letters of introduction.


10-850

As soon as London gets its bank we may want to start a palace to prepare for Smith's.

Still waiting for MilTrad to trade out to somebody. Once it does it may be time to pull the trigger on Willie as then we could make best use of the saltpeter. There are settlers ready and waiting to seize Dutch lands when the time comes. I'm only waiting on MilTrad as I would rather go up against those SwissMercs with cavalry then knights, so if somebody is feeling brave, go for it.

As banks come online our economy keeps growing at a 60% pace, so I have not been shy about spending the income on that kind of improvement. We have nearly 1000 in the bank and 674gpt.

Keep growing our towns to size 12 as that will help wiht unit support costs. There are some regulars to disband but as they make nice coastal garrisons have not done so yet.

As long as we owe Ragnar money I wouldn't worry about his 'zerks so buy from him whenever it makes sense, or ship him luxuries or resources for cash, not credit as we want to be his debtor.

The English Empire 850AD

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/JM1A850AD.jpg


Roster check
Tal-UP
grahamiam
mtgfreak-on sabbatical
Tinkez
coletite
Bede

nice turns bede, seems that the sci pace is moving rather nicely now :)

one neat thing i re-learned in BZ9, was gifting sci tech civ's up to the next age, especially the Industrial Age. In BZ9, Mark1031 pulled off a very nice move, where he gifted a civ still in the AA (germany) up to the IA by only giving it the required techs. Germany got steam as their freebee, and he then used all the optional Medieval tech's to buy it. This is something we should definitely try to pull off in this game. I see the Byzantine's as being rather backwards atm, prime candidates for this move :)

Something I've noticed is that whenever a human player builds the Great Library the tech pace really slows down until Education comes out, then it picks up again.

Also something I forgot to mention: make sure all English units are not within Dutch borders when the war declaration is made. I'm thinking especially of the poaching settler in the boat off the coast.

Go get us some saltpeter, Tal.

Looking good Bede :)

I agree with the Smith pre-build, that wonder suits us wonderful, makes us feel like Uncle Scrooge with all that gold income :D

Good luck to Tal with the war against the Dutch!

looks like rl has bit tal in the bum again. i probably can't get to it tonight but will play and post tomorrow night, time permitting and if tal's still a no-show.

thanks grahamiam.

got it. will play and post tonight.

Preflight check: 942g in the bank, making +674gpt, 2247g required for a careful steal from the Vikings. He wants over 7000g for MT or Physics.

Vikings up Physics, MT, and Music. Lots of others know music too.

IBT: Ottomans declare on the Portugese
London bank -> knight
York knight -> knight
Hastings pike -> pike (to replace the coastal warriors)
Gloucester aqua -> market
Manchester harbor -> Library (culture war)

T1: 860AD Decide to pull some aggressive settler tactics and settle on the large stack of Knights near Utrecht. Move Knight onto hill and confirm there is indeed a Swiss Merc in Utrecht. We only have 10 knights in the theater so we will need more.
Migrate 4 warriors down towards New York so the garrison can reduce the flip chance there.
Nottingham reg pike -> bank
Reading court -> bank
Bristol pike -> pike
Bath Aqua -> barracks
As I feared, New York flips, taking 1 MDI :(

T2: 870AD Greece and Sumeria have MT now. Try a steal on the Vikings and we succeed! Take Physics, thank you very much :)
Trades: Greece: MT for Physics and 10gpt.
Misclick a caravel and delay the arrive of 3 more knight into dutch land by 3T.

IBT: Canter: pike -> pike
Oxford knight -> knight
Liverpool pike -> barracks
Dover court -> library

T3: 880AD Vikings now up Mag.

Hastings Pike -> pike
Maastr harbor -> walls
Birmingham caravel -> barracks

T4: 890AD Trades: Portugal: Music, WM, 39gpt, 133g for Metallurgy
London knight -> knight
York knight -> knight
Coventry knight -> knight
Bristol pike -> knight

T5: 900AD Building up more troops.

Bath barracks -> knight
New Nottingham and Maas walls -> pikes

T6: 910AD landscaping. Vikings still have a monopoly on mag. Waiting for 5 more knights and 1 more pike to get closer before starting on the Dutch.
IBT: Hastings pike -> knight
Vikings are building Newtons

T7: 920AD Vikings now have a monopoly on both Mag and ToG. Hurry 3 pikes in Dutchland (one for each town)

T8: 930AD Rush a Cathedral in Dover.
Trade WM around and we actually get 27gpt and 51g from the Ottomans :eek: That’s the best map deal I’ve ever made :lol:
Declare war on the Dutch.
Take Utrecht, costing us 2 knights with 2 retreats.

IBT: Dutch lose 3 horses killing 1 knight.

T9: 940AD Found New Hastings and we now have salt. Upgrade a bunch of wounded knights @ Maas (total =11)
MDI that was sneaking thru Arab land pillages Dutch iron

T10: 950AD Greeks have Printing Press monopoly.
Use 2 MDI’s to capture Holward.
Use 4 cav to capture Amsterdamn (no losses)
Raze Utrech and replace with New Canterbury
Attack stack of junk units outside of New Nottingham, killing 3 swiss mercs, 3 spears, 1 horse, and 1 archer, costing us 1 MDI.

Notes: we are getting some serious cultural pressure from the Vikings. I was putting junk units in all border cities to try to reduce flip chances. According to CrpMapstat, we need 10 more units in Middleburg to reduce the flip chance to 0%. Coventry, Bath, and Hastings still need 1 more unit each. I was also trying to rush cultural buildings quicken our border expansions.

Greeks have a monopoly on PP, while the Vikings own ToG and Mag. I recommend we try to “carefully” steal PP from the Greeks and then swing a deal for Mag. So we can get our UU built. They are so far away that they can't hurt us if we fail and they declare.

Dutch war should now go quickly. Upgrade as knights get wounded, but otherwise expand S. The Dutch capitol had only 4 defenders so the other cities should be lighter. We can probably avoid most of the Dutch units in the field and concentrate attacks on the cities. Let the units run around if they are of no harm. Just don’t let them pillage our salt :) All Dutch cities should be taxstarved down to 1 citizen and the build in Amsterdam should change to a worker.

Oh yeah, we’re stinkin’ rich :p

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/JM1A-950AD.JPG

Nice moves, g-man.

Steenking rich is right!

You think it's time to trim Ragnar's beard for him?

Roster check

mtgfreak-You back? You're UP!
Tinkez-on deck
coletite
Bede
Tal-skipped
grahamiam-just played

You think it's time to trim Ragnar's beard for him?
normally, yeah, but he's doing all our research so we're in a catch-22.
the situation will be most favorable for us after the dutch are eliminated since the Vikings do not have salt. we can pour cav on him at will. however, we do have a problem in that no-one but the vikings are keeping the research rate up. due to the constraints of this game, i think i'd recommend sending as many junk units/pikes to the culturally pressured towns as possible. it should be doable but Middleburg is in real danger. right now, i'm reworking the marshland and jungle nearby so it can work the tiles away from the viking border. this will reduce the cultural flip chance. we need to keep an eye on things with CrpMapstat.

also, we are very close to the IA. Try to get Mag, ToG, PP and any other optional tech. We will need to give the Ottomans, Byz, and other backwards scientific civ's to the IA and then buy thier IA tech's with optional MA techs. This should happen in the next 10 turns or so.

Roster check

Tinkez-up
coletite - on deck
Bede
Tal-skipped
grahamiam-just played
mtgfreak-skipped, hasn't posted since 8/18

I can't play until Tuesday at the earliest, I'm trying to finish COTM3, which has submission deadline tomorrow.

Coletite, if you want to swap, feel free to grab the game. I'll play then after you.

I can't play until Tuesday at the earliest, I'm trying to finish COTM3, which has submission deadline tomorrow.

deadline passed so you gonna take it now? :)

I would if I could. Did not finish even the COTM3, and now my hands are full of RL stuff. I have to request a skip. Sorry for the delay :(

I can take it now. Life has slowed down a bit now that I've finished my SGOTM3 turns... :mad:

[edit] Ok, I've got it. I'll try to play tonight when I get home from work. (I wish I had Civ at work!!!)

Sorry, folks. RL hit me hard this weekend so it might be a few days until I can play the turns. Somebody else can take it. Tinkez can have it back if he wants.

@Tinkez,
You want it you got it in any case I'll pick up Sunday evening and play then (-5GMT).

I got it. I start playing right now!

Pre-Turn:

Bring lux up a notch as several cities would riot. Steal Printing press from the greeks.

Hmm... Ragnar does not know mayas, hittites, byzantines or Ottomans. Ragnar is so GREEDY. He wants the world for Magnetism, but as we're so rich, we'll pay.

Magnetism to us for contact with mayas+WM+PP+308gpt!!
Then some contact trading as Ragnar would do it for us otherwise:
-Osman gets Ragnars contact for WM+20gp+7gpt
-Greek gets Ottos contact for WM+57gp
-Ragnar gets hittites contact for WM+22gp
-Joan gets Ottoman contact for WM+18gp
-Portugal gets Mayas contact for WM+53gp
-Sumeria gets Ottos contact for WM+34gp
-Arabia gets Ottos contact for WM+20gp
-Ragnar gets byzantines contact for 28gp

IBT:

Greeks complete Magellans
SUmers start Smith's

960AD(1):

Where's our pre-build for the SMITH'S?? Does not exist. Not good. York is changed to Palace.
Trade Magnetism to Greek for Economics+WM+55gpt.
Lux to 20%

IBT:

Vikings start Newton's - and they finish it. They got SGL most likely. Then they start Smith's.
Cascade: French finish JS Bachs.

970AD(2):

Troops into position for attack to Rotterdam.

980AD(3):

Take Rotterdam without losses.
Hawk WM for 74gp+1gpt
I fear that we're not going to get Smith's... :(

990AD(4):

Now the greeks have the ToG also. Time for some trading I think.
As this is my first time trying this trick, I'll play it with care and think it through.
We have 3 backward scientific civs: Ottomans, byzantines and babylons. Greek and Sumerians are also scientific and Greek have Theory of Gravity. I need to trade that one from them and then bring the other to IA and see what techs they get.
Okay: We get ToG from the Greeks for Gems+Incense+128gpt. Ragnar wanted way more...
Greeks got Steam Power as their free tech.
Ragnar has Nationalism already and he's not scientific? His research is great!
Let's start gifting some techs:Bring Byzantines to IA by giving all the required MA techs to him. She gets Medicine as his free tech! Great!
Whuh. Theodora wants all the optional techs + 49gpt for Medicine. Well, if that's the price to pay, I can't chicken out anymore.
Damn! Ragnar does not want to give out nationalism for any price. Greeks want insane price for the Steam power: 3000gp+medicine+250gpt
Double damn! I forgot the Sumerians after I made the deal with the Greek for the ToG :(
I give ToG to them. They get Nationalism!
Now I don't know how to play this best. I trade Nationalism from Sumeria for Wines+medicine+338gpt.
Then I get Steam Power from the Greeks for Nationalism+120gpt.
There are 2 coals on the east island. Ragnar has one next to Tromso and the second one is unconnected near Delft. There's also one coal on Dutch land. That'll be soon ours!
Ragnar gets Medicine for WM+1919gp+72gpt.
Greeks get Medicine for WM+76gp+151gpt.
Then trade I trade Steam power to Sumerians for WM+245gpt.
As last trade I give Steam power to Ragnar for 210gpt.

Summary: We give out 635gpt and get 678gpt. Our cash reserves also boosted by 1995gp not to mention 4 new techs. It worked nice after all!

Then back to normal game.

Conquer Haarlem and Groeningen without losses.

IBT: THIS CAN'T BE TRUE! GAME CRASHES! I HAVE REPLAY THOSE TRADES?!??!??!? :mad: I think there's a bug in the game as I've had several crashes if a city riots and during the interturn I change the citizen to clowns/taxmen/etc. Anyone had similar behaviour?

Reload the game and thank my notes they were so exact. This is not funny. I had to reload the game twice after the crash to get the same sequence. Sorry for that, but those trades were once done and I wanted them the same.

1000AD(5): Cavalry attack to Eindhoven gets us a leader. He is hurried to Groningen and an army is created. Two cavalry are loaded to the new army and then the army marches back to Eindhoven killing the last defender and takes the city. Now we can build Heroic epic and Military academy.

1010AD(6): Move troops next to Breda, the last Dutch city on the small island.

IBT: Vikings complete Smiths. The only good news is that it was the Vikings who got it.

1020AD(7): Breda is ours. The Dutch are GONE!

1030AD(8): Finally a peaceful turn.

1040AD(9): Rush some temples on the old Dutch lands and the rest of one cathedral on east island.

1050AD(10):Nothing special.

THE SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Elizabeth_of_the_English,_1050_AD.SAV)

Nice job, T. I'm glad you pulled off the New Era deals as I would probably have muffed them.

Got it and play tonight.

Couple of remarks:

1. York is building military tradition. I think we should start pre-build for Theory of Evolution soon, I think we can grab that wonder and get Hoover's then with an other pre-build.

2. There are 3 galleons south of old Dutch lands, they're heading to the Mayan island to do some leader fishing. Mayans are still in ancient age, so it should be quite easy to get some elite's / leaders from the Mayans.

3. Rails are now available, focus on building them!

Couple of remarks:

1. York is building military tradition. I think we should start pre-build for Theory of Evolution soon, I think we can grab that wonder and get Hoover's then with an other pre-build.

Army building in York and Palace in London

2. There are 3 galleons south of old Dutch lands, they're heading to the Mayan island to do some leader fishing. Mayans are still in ancient age, so it should be quite easy to get some elite's / leaders from the Mayans.

Small change of plan

3. Rails are now available, focus on building them!

Driving spikes like a madman



JM1A

0-After Tinkez' trading round we are in a really, really good spot. The only tech we don't have is Communism and won't need police stations for a long time. We lack no resources and have extra incense to sell, so who should get them?

I start with the Greeks who have some gold to spend and could use a boost to their economy but after spending 194g to investigate their capitol at Athens decide that they really don't.

Byzantines, Sumeria and Ottomans are the next likely customers...

Mursilis is the only one with money to spend so he gets the incense for 20g+15gpt.

Babylon is so far behind they don't even count.

Now that we have Nationalism we can use policemen to control corruption, waste and contentment. Hire a few cops and luxury tax can go to zero. Use the money gained to upgrade pikes to rifles. Costs ~1800g but we make it back in less than two turns.

Sell Economics to J'D'Arc for small change, then spend it rushing income producing buildings on East Island.

Start the Heroic Epic in London.

1-1060
Notice an expeditionary force heading into Mayan waters. Make a nice place to exercise our cavalry and maybe get an MGL to rush things like factories.

2-1070

Sell Ragnar some Saltpeter for 35gpt.

3-1080

Scandanavia learns Democracy and sells it to the Greeks and both are in anarchy. Democracy can be bought from Greece for about 20% of our gross income. Both also have Communism. Will wait to see which way the frog jumps.

Democracy will do good things for corruption and commerce in general, so I think it is necessary, but wonder if we want to wait until we take control of the rest of the former Dutch island, now Arab.

That war will be cavalry and cannon against spears, horsemen and longbows....A little recon makes this entirely too tempting....as all the towns I can see are defended by spears.

4-1090
Cut the Arab iron supply :) by cutting a road in neutral territory and buy his map for 1g.

Ragnar makes a demand for tribute. Pay him off, it's only 56g.

And then the froggie jumps in our face...as the bearded ruffian declares war anyway....

5-1100
Draft a bunch of riflemen at home and on the East Island. Cover the Scandanavian coal on East Island. Sail a MoW into the strait between East Island and the Scandanavian home island.

Interestingly enough Ragnar is still in revolt...

Decide a good ally against Ragnar would be Greece. Sign him up for coal and 20gpt.

Decide to carry forward the war against Arabia.

Basra falls easily to our cavalry. Cavs and cannon move into position against Yamama.

There are lots of forces prepared to meet the Scandanavian incursion form Molde which consists of one pike and a warrior.

Bring Hammurabi into the Viking war for Monotheism.

Bring Joan in for Incense and Theory of Gravity.

Invite Theo to join in the party for Saltpeter.

And the Arabs declare on the Greeks.

Vikings and Hittites join in against the French.

Portugal joins the Vikings against France.

6-1110
Yamamma in south Arabia falls to three cavalry assaults. Forces move into position for Damascus.

Heroic Epic and Military Academy complete.

Ragnar lands a rifle and MDI on the home island

7-1120

Sink a Viking galleon with a MoW and the Golden Age starts. :wallbash:

Taking Damascus costs a cavalryman, the first war casualty.

Cannon, cavalry and a rifle eliminate the Viking threat on the home island.

Our income has jumped by nearly 60% to 1224gpt.

Vikings drag Sumeria in against us.

Ottomans join a trade embargo against us with the Vikings.

8-1130
Sink a Viking galleon in the strait, lose a cavalryman and a rifle trying to take Molde.

Capture Khurasan in Arabia.

The Vikings have learned Industrialzation and start Universal Suffrage.

9-1140
Postion cavalry for next Arab city and close off the strait between East Island and the Vikings.

10-1150
Capture Molde on the home island.

Capture Mecca.

I think I started WW1.There is one non-participant, the Ottomans, IIRC and they signed a trade embargo against us.

The strait between Scandanavia and East Island is closed by MoW and galleons. The Viking towns on East Island are pretty much isolated from our towns and I don't think he has any offensive troops there anyway.

There are cavalry building on East Island for an attack on the Viking towns there. Bombard them with MoW then send in the horsies. Take your time. The alliances have a ways to run yet so there is no hurry. The Viking government is now Democracy so I think he is going to be relunctant to invade. Watch that carefully. If he falls into anarchy his next move will be to Fascism or Communism. That will be a problem.

Roster check

Tal - yours if you want it. Post got it by 9:00AM Tuesday (-5GMT)
coletite - Can you take it if Tal doesn't?
grahamiam- on deck
Admiral Kutzov - replacing mtgfreak
Tinkez
Bede

I've invited Admiral Kutzov to join the silver wings.

Welcome aboard Admiral.

Checking in. I've read the posts and will try to keep things moving. Where are the tanks... :lol:

very nice trading tinkez! i thought this was going to be a nice, peaceful game to the stars :lol: recommend we try getting espionage, then, with spys, we can continue to steal and deal :)

very nice trading tinkez! i thought this was going to be a nice, peaceful game to the stars :lol: recommend we try getting espionage, then, with spys, we can continue to steal and deal :)
Thanks Grahamiam! It took me a long time to get those trades as I tried to think the best way to do them. I'm satisfied :king: (not humble :lol: )