Thread for discussion of Article E, Legislative Branch.

There is some discussion on this topic in the Article D discussion thread, and other places, regarding whether the governors are executive or legislative. This thread can be used for deciding whether we need more than just a vote of the citizens to pass new laws, or if we need some other, presumably smaller body to also vote.

Here is the starting point article from the general discussions thread, which assumes the citizens are the legislature, with no Senate.


Article E. The Legislative Branch will be the Congress,
will consists of the entirety of the citizenry and is
responsible for the drafting of new Laws.


Here is the suggestion from Epimethius

Article E. The Legislative Branch will be the National Assembly,
will consists of the entirety of the citizenry and is
responsible for the drafting of new Laws and the election
of executive, legislative, and judicial officials.
1. The Vice or Deputy President shall preside over the
Assembly and the drafting of laws.



Ravensfire offered up this example, which keeps the existing definition of a senate formed by the governors.

Article I. Legislative Branch
The Legislative Branch will be formed of two houses.

The Senate will be formed of the Provincial Governors, each
of whom are responsible for the care, management and use of
the cities and lands of a province through the setting of
build queues, allocation of laborers on tiles, the use of
population rushes and drafting of soldiers.

Each Governor shall determine any policies and procedures
needed to carry out their duties.

The Congress will be formed of the entirety of the
citizenry and is responsible for the drafting of new Laws.

No more Senate. Like in Canada, the Senate here is a useless rubber-stamp organization. And, of course, the presence of the Senate conflicts with my proposal to get rid of governors as elected officials (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=1988006&postcount=62).

Of the three presented above, Epimethius' idea is the best. Give the VP something to do. I know all to well what it's like to be a VP without anything to do. :p

No more Senate.

The Senate was actually a good thing, before someone thought of putting them in control of the sliders. When people like Shaitan and myself were Governors, we used the Senate as a common meeting ground for the Governors to discuss global issues within our realm. Too bad the Senate is now seen as an eye-sore instead of the good thing it used to be.

The Senate was actually a good thing, before someone thought of putting them in control of the sliders. When people like Shaitan and myself were Governors, we used the Senate as a common meeting ground for the Governors to discuss global issues within our realm. Too bad the Senate is now seen as an eye-sore instead of the good thing it used to be.
yeh, i think we could find some good use for the senate

If we need a council of governors, we can have a Council of Governors. It would help for dividing up the quotas created by National Projects. It would simply be a forum (in the old, pre-internet sense) for the governors to coordinate their operations and figure things out together, with no powers on its own.

this needs to be decided upon soon. Senate or no senate?

If there is no counter proposal. I will move forward with a proposal in 24 hours removing the senate completely from this article.

I vote Senate. There must be some way for Provinces to work as a check against the Executive Branch. Perhaps that is too complex, but we should at least keep the Senate intact in case we do devise a function for it. If not, it acts as a Council of Governors.

counterproposals DZ, counterproposals!

the time for discussion is rapidly running out, we need laws written not comments.

I say give the Governors no legal "COLLECTIVE" power, they can not vote except as citizens, but of course as governors have power over the build queues.

However, a Council of Governors should be established, for Governors to work together and plan to meet national goals. Also as a place where leaders can bring force priorities and requests to the govenors collectively.

I fully agree with falcon.

I vote Senate. There must be some way for Provinces to work as a check against the Executive Branch. Perhaps that is too complex, but we should at least keep the Senate intact in case we do devise a function for it. If not, it acts as a Council of Governors.

Governor's control Build queue's how much more of a check do ya need?

The Governor's position is probobly one of the most powerful, most influencial positions to the game, despite the fact it is often viewed as an entry lvl position, a bad governor can easily doom our civilization.

but at least we seem to all agree a Council of Governors is necciary

Yeah, I'd say go with DaveShack's proposal and leave the Vice President out of it. If we need a Senate we can always amend the Constitution.

So that said, Ravensfire's proposal is the closest. It would need to be dressed up a bit(a roman numeral here and there), but is pretty much along Falcon's reasoning.

Well, come to think of it, where else in the Constitution are the Governors mentioned? Their description has to be somewhere. So I'll change to ravenfire's proposal too.

I'll agree with Ravensfire's though I think it should note that the Senate is to help the Governors to work together.


Article I. Legislative Branch
The Legislative Branch will be formed of two houses.

The Council of Governors will be formed of the Provincial Governors, each
of whom are responsible for the care, management and use of
the cities and lands of a province through the setting of
build queues, allocation of laborers on tiles, the use of
population rushes and drafting of soldiers. The Council's primary purpose is to encourage cooperation between the Provincial Governors within the council, and the to encourage cooperation between the Council and the Executive Brance

Each Governor shall determine any policies and procedures
needed to carry out their duties.

The Congress will be formed of the entirety of the
citizenry and is responsible for the drafting of new Laws.


Italics are what I edited... I think Council of Governors is more appropriate then Senate anyway.

Oh and obviously if we change or mind on giving the Council legal power outside of the governor position itself, we can amend it later.

I'm ok with Falcon02's edited version (except for spelling mistakes which need correcting). However now we're missing a definition for provinces -- don't know if that actually matters.

As in number of cities? I recall a poll...

*jumps headfirst into the archives*

I'm ok with Falcon02's edited version (except for spelling mistakes which need correcting). However now we're missing a definition for provinces -- don't know if that actually matters.

:p I'm an engineer not an English major.... don't have Word's spell check out either... :lol:

Anyway, Provinces can be defined one of two ways I can see... # of cities, and # of tiles.

Keep in mind some provinces may grow in the number of cities they have after they are defined.

Last point was a good one, Falc. I'd go with the standard number of tiles.

at any rate its very easy to define the provinces, all we have to do is include the sentence "Provinces must contain X cities/tiles"

No the number of cities vs number of tiles argument belongs in the in-game debates on the provincial borders. I was just saying that we may have an undefined term "province".


Article O

The area contained within the cultural boundaries of [country name] shall
be divided into areas called provinces, each of which is under the
control of a Governor as stated elswhere in this Constitution. The
boundaries dividing such provinces shall be set as determined by the
congress, and may extend beyond the cultural boundaries.

Except for that "rs" it looks good. Although I don't know if it's needed.

Had to throw that spelling inaccuracy in there. ;)

Ooops! You already edited it out. :(

Dave shack: care to open a seperate thread for new article O? I can if not.

Should be an easy ratification.

Okay looks good

So will falcon02's constitutional article proposal work?

Proposed Article E Poll:


Article E. Legislative Branch

The Legislative Branch will be formed of two houses.
1.The Council of Governors will be formed of the Provincial Governors.
Each of whom is responsible for the care, management, use of
the cities, and use of lands of a province through the setting of build
queues, allocation of labourers on tiles, population rushes and drafting
of soldiers. The Council's primary purpose is to encourage cooperation
between the Provincial Governors and to encourage cooperation
between the Council and the Executive Branch.
a.Each Governor shall determine any policies and procedures needed
to carry out their duties.
2.The Congress will be formed of the entirety of the citizenry and is
responsible for the drafting of new Laws.

Looks good

The article looks workable as is.

But personally, I would junk the whole Senate/Council of Governors as a formal gov't bady into a more unofficial co-orination body. But as I said, its workable.

The article looks workable as is.

But personally, I would junk the whole Senate/Council of Governors as a formal gov't bady into a more unofficial co-orination body. But as I said, its workable.

The purpose is to ensure efficiency, one place for Leaders to post requests of governors, and one place for Governors to deal with claims over tiles. Granted it isn't as necciary at the begaining when we have just 1 Province, but when we have 3+ Provinces it will be VERY helpful essential.

Ratification Poll Now Open:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=94911