Classic 33: Pre-Game discussion

I think this game will be quite interesting! Following on from last months' game, this one will again require no downloads, although given the problems experienced by some players (especially Vanilla and Mac players), I will endeavour to provide an updated pediaicons.txt file (seeing as there appear to be so many versions of this floating around that aren't quite 'perfect'!)

Lets kick-off the discussions with the starting map, including the minimap. :)

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/2003images/GOTM33_START.JPG

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/2003images/GOTM33_MINIMAP.JPG

The grass is always greener on the other side of the hi.. er mountains. I can see glimmers of breadcrumbs again... :lol: :thumbsup:

Looks like a move N for me. There's a river up there, and hopefully less jungle. It looks like hills to the W/NW and W/W, and to the NE/NE. When was the last time a move wasn't obvious from the starting screenshot? It's a shame to leave behind two BG, but the jungle and mountains make this a crappy starting location.

There are only two units, so we aren't expansionist. Err, that's all I can come up with.

We're going to need some serious fog-gazers for this one...

We're going to need some serious fog-gazers for this one...

Not really.... ;)
Moving N is IMHO obviously the best option. Then when the worker stands on the mountain, you can decide where you want to go next...

Worker NE may be better, to avoid missing something. Then settler N if nothing shows up.

Here is my usual MS Paint dribbles from what little I can gaze from underneath the fog:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/GOTM33gaze.jpg

Worker N sounds like a very safe bet on this map. There is no crumbs whatsoever in the whole S SE section of the visual terrain. The only 'if' is wether to move him NE compared to N because of the mountain blocking to the NE NE. The river seem to be branching NE NW from the square N NE. But, as allways. This is my personal opinion of what's hidden under the fog. Not the truth.

Edit: I think I will move the settler NE after having moved the worker N. Just to cover both the western and eastern part of the northern terrain.

Hmm, NE can be more mountains. I think a worker move to the North and the hope for a better land.

Judging from the mini-map, I'd guess there's coast to the E, and probably N. Are we perhaps on a Pan map? Definitely concur with moving Settler N, I'd move the worker W though to get a better overall view.

Neil. :cool:

Judging from the mini-map, I'd guess there's coast to the E, and probably N. Are we perhaps on a Pan map? Definitely concur with moving Settler N, I'd move the worker W though to get a better overall view.

Neil. :cool:

I can't see even the faintest trace of coastline on any part of the picture. The N NW, N W and N E is grassland with a high grade of probability. The 'mountain' in the NE NE can be a hill. If my worker going N spots good terrain to the NW I will have to rethink moving the settler to the NE(the mntn/hill in the NENE will block the workers view in that direction).

The colour looks very much like the celts... Although ainwood has been known to muck about with that before ;)

Yes, the Celts' alternative colour. I'm playing them right now in Conquests. In Conquests they have rather poor starting techs, but a great combination of traits, religious and agricultural, perfect for high difficulty levels. In PTW they are militaristic instead of agricultural.

I think this game will be quite interesting! Following on from last months' game, this one will again require no downloads

No downloads required so only vanilla civs. Chinese?

No additional downloads I guess: IIRC Classic 32 had Korea and Spain.

So, it could be... Sarmatians? :crazyeye: ;)

No downloads required so only vanilla civs. Chinese?
You can play with either vanilla civ or PTW.

Obviously, the river to the north is very tempting. But as Singularity points out, it is impossible to tell whether the river goes NW or NE. I think the best move is to first move the Worker to the NE mountain. Then move the Settler to the north mountain. I say that because the Settler will have more flexibility to move onto more river squares if she goes to the N as opposed to the NE.

The chances appear to be better to the north solely because of the river. Since the Settler is going to move anyway, we might as well use her as a scout. I don't think I would want to move the Worker N. If he sees something good further north then the Settler will have to follow him and will lose the chance to see what is available from the NE mountain.

It looks as if the Settler will be moving at least 2 turns to begin, and possibly more. Cracker always said you should settle at the start position unless there is a compelling reason to move. In the last two games the breadcrumbs have been sprinkled liberally, and create that compelling reason.

Mountains & Jungles... good start place! ;) I think ainwood want Classic players have the same problems as COTM players in choosing starting moves. Well, it pulls up the interest of pregame dicussion. As other I think move worker N. I don't settle on the place especially because it is resource grassland. About civs... may be it's China? :confused:

I'm going to start by moving the settler south, and the worker southwest. I'll settle on the jungle and then start the worker clearing the sw jungle spot. Think of the turns that I'll save settling on the jungle, as I wont have to chop it, and then after the worker completes his 24 turn chop I'll get the bonus of another grassland square, maybe even a bonus grassland!!!. Also my people feel its important to settle close to the mountain, as it reduces the wind effect of an open plan.

Sorry, after the last few COTM/GOTM with less than inviting start positions, I've almost given up hope of looking around for something decent, I used to plan for 13 cities by 1000BC, now I feel that 4 cities is a good round number.

I'm tempted to send the worker NE, and then the settler N, just to be sure that I can see the maximum land before making a decision, but I think its a toss up. If you move the worker north, then you'll probably see good land and send the settler north, meaning that you'll not see what is east.

Looks pretty cut-and-dried already. Minimap shows central location so no possible reason for a jungle expedition.

The civ is a bit of a mystery, though I hope it is not the Celts. They are always behind in sci and the UU comes and goes way too fast.

Is that a river bend to the W? It would be obvious in-game as the W tile will show commerce if there is. Certainly looks like something blue over there. (Disclaimer: I'm on a new monitor I haven't used in Civ at all!)

I would move the Worker NE if there is no W river, then the Settler N if nothing interesting shows up to the E. If the Worker saw no BG (or better) tiles to the N, I might consider moving the Settler S so to use the two BG in the start radius instead though.

If there is a W river, then I would reverse it, Worker N, and if nothing too interesting shows up N, Settler E.

Hmm. There are 6 tiles that look workable within the expanded radius of the current start location, including a couple of riverside ones. That'll keep a primitive town busy for a few thousand years. And who knows, those worker turns to clear a jungle could be halved if we're industrious. Moving one turn is a major decision in Classic. You've need a *very* serious excuse to go nomadic for 100 years or more.

Worker NE is as far as I'm going to speculate until I see some more info.

My initial reaction is settler-West, worker-NE. Maximize the look.

Now that ainwood has us thinking about moving the settler around, there won't be a settler factory to be found. I can hear him giggling all the way from the bottom of the Earth.

I make some map models and the visible curve of the river (N) may be only if river begins on the tile N,NE and flow to NW.

Doesn't it have to flow S for us to see it?

Yeah, you could get by at the starting spot. How many people going to settle and send worker to BG?

Aeson: I must admit, that as hard as I strain my eyes I can see no river bend to the west. Have you been drinking that orange soda again?

My thoughts: Worker roads, settler south. Insta-clear jungle, start on a warrior to go over the mountain. Send warriors out to find a site for a settler factory, and build a settler factory in the second city.

I guess a warm, wet map was always going to generate a lot of jungle. And to think I was just trying to give your little citizens a nice warm place with lots of pretty water-feature terrains like waterfalls. :sigh:

My thoughts: Worker roads, settler south. Insta-clear jungle, start on a warrior to go over the mountain. Send warriors out to find a site for a settler factory, and build a settler factory in the second city.
Dangerous! My guess is you're swapping six workable tiles for three or four, with more jungle in your radius. Staying put you know you've two river tiles. Moving south there may be none.

Dangerous! My guess is you're swapping six workable tiles for three or four, with more jungle in your radius. Staying put you know you've two river tiles. Moving south there may be none.Okay...so the nomadic settler is dangerous...insta-clearing the jungle is dangerous... plopping the settler on the starting tile "just like the stupid AI would do" appears to be the only safe bet here...

...at least...

...until one of the shaolin monks of this game de-lurks and shows us where the breadcrumbs lead....

Are you sure the N-NW tile will be a river tile? That river could end right where we see it.

Yes, it is a nice warm,wet world. However, there are organized barbarians out there, and the difficulty is more than warlord.

Are you sure the N-NW tile will be a river tile? That river could end right where we see it.
It's a river and it may end on the mountain. But it will flow between two tiles. And those tiles must both be in the 21 tile radius of a city on the start tile.

I've done some playing around with rivers in the editor. Rivers are located on the corners where tiles meet. The 4 tiles that touch that corner all get the 1 gold bonus. If there is river on two adjacent corners, then you'll see them connected on the map. As far as I can tell from the map, the N and NE mountain tiles are on the river, as well as NxNW, 2N, NxNE, and 2NE. That should mean 3 decent riverside settling spots, all of them visible from the north mountain. I plan to move the worker NE first. Depending on what I see, I will move the settler either N or NW. NW would only be in the case of extremely unfriendly territory uncovered by worker.

As AlanH has pointed out, settling in place isn't horrible, as you would have river tiles to work. My problem with the start position is that those river tiles are beyond a mountain. That's a lot of extra time to build a road, or lost movement time if you don't.

If a river ends at a corner you don't get the bonus on all four adjacent tiles. I have a case in our current Jumpmasters SG. If you like I'll post a screenshot showing the terrain yields for the four tiles.

Hmm. There are 6 tiles that look workable within the expanded radius of the current start location, including a couple of riverside ones. That'll keep a primitive town busy for a few thousand years. And who knows, those worker turns to clear a jungle could be halved if we're industrious. Moving one turn is a major decision in Classic. You've need a *very* serious excuse to go nomadic for 100 years or more.

Worker NE is as far as I'm going to speculate until I see some more info.

Why is moving a bigger deal in Classic than it is in Conquests?

Nope, I got it now. I was looking at how I could assign river in the editor, but not actually checking it in game. :blush: I see now that single corner rivers, while shown in the editor, don't show in the game when loaded. So from the screenshot, the most we could say is the N tile and NxNE tile are getting river bonus. The NxNW tile would only get bonus if the river continues from the north tip of the north tile, correct?

Standing on a BG in this situation makes a move worthwhile. No fresh water would mean no growing to past size 6 (and getting use of the extra shield) for quite a while. If you want to found at the start, I think E is the best bet. S works too, if you want to keep the city small and just get Settlers/Workers out whenever you're going to grow past size 2 or 3.

Looking again, I don't see the river E either. Been getting too much sun I guess...

Hmm. There are 6 tiles that look workable within the expanded radius of the current start location, including a couple of riverside ones. That'll keep a primitive town busy for a few thousand years. And who knows, those worker turns to clear a jungle could be halved if we're industrious. Moving one turn is a major decision in Classic. You've need a *very* serious excuse to go nomadic for 100 years or more.

Why is moving a bigger deal in Classic than it is in Conquests?

I second that question.

In both 31 and 32, I believe alot of people moved, include some of the top players?

For anyone, how does the level of difficulty play on the move decision? i.e. If we are Emperor this time. (We're due aren't we?)

I think the best move is to first move the Worker to the NE mountain. Then move the Settler to the north mountain. I say that because the Settler will have more flexibility to move onto more river squares if she goes to the N as opposed to the NE.

Yes, you are correct Zagnut. And you will further distance yourself from the damn jungles. If I get a choice to avoid them in the start I will embrace it happily. Even though we are industrial we will have the better part of the middleage to clear all those tiles of jungle, At least 10 tiles if I'm correct... The fast corebuild in PTW will be halved with this terrain, that reminds me in many ways of the starting conditions in COTM1.

Workers will probably be the backbone of my units for a very long time in this game. Kind of like the way it was in GOTM17 Carthage on the dreaded Jungle Island - with zero bonusgrass under them, damn u Cracker! :) I'm glad that Ainwood has kept the random seed of BG on so that we get a BG as a reward from time to time when we're finished with the mammoth task of clearing a jungletile. Alexman and Bamspeedy's timeline from QSC17 (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/qsc/qsc17/index.shtml) is very interesting reading for those of us struggling with early infrastructure/economy/growth.

Oh, and I have a suspicion that the N NW tile with the river might be plains...

So, worker NE - Settler N unless the worker spots nirvana in the NE area :)

Why is moving a bigger deal in Classic than it is in Conquests?I don't play Conquests, so I don't know why it would be different, but I trust DaveMcW's judgement when he describes his transfer to Conquests as requiring a change in his attitude to settler moves. So he wasn't upset about moving five or six tiles in COTM2, whereas he would not have considered it in Classic games. Looking at the COTM2 spoilers I'm not even convinced that the long march was entirely justified.

When everything you do in those first turns is magnified so much by the exponential growth factors of the game, I can understand Cracker's attitude - don't move unless you can see a clear and substantial advantage to doing so. Statistically, moving from your start also puts you closer to one or more of your rivals.

I second that question.

In both 31 and 32, I believe alot of people moved, include some of the top players?
I'll move one tile and often do, but you're all looking at a minimum of 2. I'm also not saying I won't do it, I'm just pointing out that there's got to be a *very* good reason for walking that far so I'll move the worker but think hard about what I see. If the immediate view isn't spectacular I'll get on with business where I stand.

I think perhaps moving as an Agricultural civ (though not in general) is justified in Conquests for the purpose of settling on fresh water -- one of the reasons moving in COTM2 was important. That's what DaveMcW was referring to.

I'll move one tile and often do, but you're all looking at a minimum of 2. I'm also not saying I won't do it, I'm just pointing out that there's got to be a *very* good reason for walking that far so I'll move the worker but think hard about what I see. If the immediate view isn't spectacular I'll get on with business where I stand.

I was of the same opinion originally, but I keep seeing the top players move a fair distance before settling. <edit: removed potentially misleading comment due to lack of backup doc>

In any case, Ainwood seems to like putting a better site somewhere out of view, just so you can torture yourself with "if only" thoughts when everyone else finds it. :crazyeye:

This is a tough one. I need a peek at what is over the mountain to decide, so I will move the worker one square either N or NE. As somebody already pointed out, there is a good chance that this area has coastlines to the north and east (based on the mini-map). If so, the NE will not be a good position for establishing lines of communication between the capital and the rest of the empire. Most likely I will settle near the start and pump out as many workers as I can as early as I can, and hope for more bonus tiles. The capital doesn't need to get very big to produce workers, and being an industrious civ makes this appraoch somewhat feasible.

Are we industrious? I said I'd *like* us to be, but that's wishful thinking.

Is the settler standing on BG? I can't see it.

I'm seeing strange disconnected comments. Are we looking at the same information? :confused:

- Industrious civ? Who said we are industrious? I said I'd *like* us to be, but that's wishful thinking.

- Settler standing on BG? Not from where I'm viewing it, and no sign of that on the blow-up picture on page one.

All we know for sure is that we're not expansionists. Warm, wet and what seems to be on a standard map with a mid-eastern start location on the minimap.

The start color is not so interesting as it can be manipulated easily to keep some of the suspence in the pregame thread. If it's the real start color we're either Celts or China, mil/rel or mil/ind.

And no, I can't begin to say that we're standing on BG.

AlanH - I am guessing we are Chinese based on the color: it has to be a civ present in vanilla CIII, which rules out the Celts. America is also light blue, but we are not an expansionist civ. so that rules them out too. But I suppose the color could have been altered... guess I will find out soon enough.

I see the BG icon just behind the unit's right leg. I can just barely see it poking out on either side.

This is some really tough choices. I do like the worker or settler to the mountain NE. Probably worker. Then the settler west to the mountain depending on what the worker sees. If things look good over the mountain the settler will follow. After that it all depends on what is revealed. I hate the thought of cutting jungle to get a capital going so I really want out of that mess. Depending on the difficulty of the game I may move 3 squares depending on the river and what lies under the fog.

AlanH - I am guessing we are Chinese based on the color: it has to be a civ present in vanilla CIII, which rules out the Celts. America is also light blue, but we are not an expansionist civ. so that rules them out too. But I suppose the color could have been altered... guess I will find out soon enough.I don't think we should assume it must be a vanilla civ, because I suspect the "no add-ons" statement may be similar to the one made for 32 - no add-ons for PtW.

I don't think we should assume it must be a vanilla civ, because I suspect the "no add-ons" statement may be similar to the one made for 32 - no add-ons for PtW.
Correct. You will need the ptw-equivalent civs for vanilla & mac. PTW players will need no add-ons. :)

The colour looks very much like the celts... Although ainwood has been known to muck about with that before ;)

Yes, the Celts' alternative colour. I'm playing them right now in Conquests. In Conquests they have rather poor starting techs, but a great combination of traits, religious and agricultural, perfect for high difficulty levels. In PTW they are militaristic instead of agricultural.

I think the Celts is correct. I can't find another civ with that color, default or secondary. The closest I could come was Persia's alternate but Celt's alternate is an exact match when a print-screen is saved as JPEG.

If I was Ainwood, after the early detection of Netherlands in COTM02 based on color, I might switch the colors. Of course, he might think that we would think that... uh, never mind, my head hurts.

I picked a colour completely at random. :)

Having 2 bonus grassland for your capital is very important. So once again it's a bad idea to settle in place.

If the worker on the mountain sees bonus food, we should build the capital next to it. But if there isn't anything special by the river, we can save time by settling E, SW, or S.

The best build order looks like warrior x3, settler, granary. You could grow even faster by starting a granary immediately, but the risks invovled (no exploration, no defense, maybe even no pottery!) make this too dangerous for me.

The only thing I know for certain is worker N. After that all bets are off.

I hate the thought of cutting jungle to get a capital going so I really want out of that mess.

I don't know. I have always found that a little physical labor makes the beer colder and sweeter. So I will immediately plunge into the jungle and chop my way out in an alcoholic haze.

However, if the tribal eldars declare us a "dry" tribe, I will move the worker N. If I spot "crumbs," I may explore a bit more. If not, I will try to settle the best location I see that can be reached in three moves or less.

I notice Singularity labeled the square NE-NE a mountain. Is that definitely the case, or could it be a hill? If it is a mountain, a settler move NE to do more exploring seems likely. If it is a hill, that may well be the location of my capitol.

I think I may try to take on the role of AI banker in this game, a la DaveMcW/COTM2 and Moonsinger/HOF. A difficult strategy to implement, but wickedly powerful it seems.

The best build order looks like warrior x3, settler, granary.

An interesting declaration. That was assuming a settle near the start, right?

I notice Singularity labeled the square NE-NE a mountain. Is that definitely the case, or could it be a hill? If it is a mountain, a settler move NE to do more exploring seems likely. If it is a hill, that may well be the location of my capitol.


I thought I might saw some rust-red traces on the slopes of the terrain behind the mountain. But I won't know for sure before I can blow it up on my screen with ingame resolution. But if it's a hill, it could be a very nice spot.

It's about time we had another little hint, isn't it? :D

Yup. I'm most curious to what landmass we're on. And please don't say mystical :|

The steep curve visible under the fog on the NE-NE square makes me think it is another mountain.

I do see some pixels that suggest a bonus shield on the starting tile, but I wouldn't swear on it.

Yup. I'm most curious to what landmass we're on. And please don't say mystical :|
Not mystical, mystery! :D


Lets see....

Barbs are restless. Map size = standard. Age is 5 Billion years. Civ? that's some civvie one? What's the name? Slipped my mind :(

Not mystical, mystery! :D




I knew it ;)

Status so far on Classic GOTM33:

Civilization: Non Expansionist
Difficulty: XXXXX
World size: Standard
Landmass: Mystery
Geology: 5 billion years old (Fewer mountains...)
Environment: Warm/Wet
Barbarians: Restless
Opponents: 7 most likely

I'm going to give this a bit of effort as I finished COTM2 early and had to ditch classic 32 because of my vacation. I hope it's Celts as they're a fun civ to play. Military/Religious should finally give me an opportunity to test my skills of warfare, and I think I will do it in [Predator] for the first time just to make it a bigger task :)

Well, we're playing on emperor....

Well, we're playing on emperor....


:hmm: Hmmm :dubious: ...ok. Still, I'll give [Predator] a try. :suicide:

Geology: 5 billion years old (Fewer mountains...

...and half of them are in our starting 21. ;)

Well, we're playing on emperor....

Ahh man I gotta get to Emperor from Monarch in 2 days... :cry: :sad:

I'm going with the worker NE crowd. If that doesn't reveal anything which decides the issue then I'll move the settler N. I'd rather risk two moves at the start than "settle" for the start region :)

Guess I'm going to do the same.
Then it really depends on what lies on the other side. I have been idly thinking about that, and settling just north of the mountain means no complete ring of cities around the capital. So, it is quite likely that I will start the FP north of it and build around the FP location, with a Palace move in mind at a later stage.
If I see a good food bonus a few tiles farther north, I may even be tempted to waste a couple more settler moves. Don't know, of course -it is just speculation, after all... :D

I think I will do it even crazier. Playing normal and not moving the settler more than 1 tile did me no good in the 3 games I played. So settler N first, this will reveal cow valley and no need to scout to the NE with the worker. If not I still have the fall-back to also do the NE move.

Emporer level huh? Sweet. That is the level that I play most often anyway. Still, I have never moved more than one or maybe two tiles before settling in an Emporer game. Now you tempt us with a "3-move initial settle"?
Devious ainwood, very devious.

Fewer mountains?

We must be just lucky to have 5 or 6 in our starting view.

At least they didn't give us a catpult to start with...

Wanna bet Jerxes, Alex and Hammi are our neighbors?

Emperor - eep. I've only just stepped up to Monarch for the last couple of GotFs.

Neil. :cool:

I am one of those that have rarely play above Monarch. GOTM31 (SS Loss) may have been the only complete game I ever played, I don't remember.

I know there are lots of useful discussions, articles, tips, etc. spread about, but how about giving us a top 5 list of things to do differently on emperor and/or Jungle maps?

For example, I find myself very attached to the idea of moving. I hate jungle maps. I like N & NW. Although, I am wondering how deep a hole I could dig myself.

Everything hinges on the worker, I would think... either pulling him northeast or north (my vote being north, closer to the river shown). If the land does not show anything north, and I am on a BG, I would move the settler one step and build there.

how about giving us a top 5 list of things to do differently on emperor and/or Jungle maps?
Ouch! my eardrums! Have a look here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=78267)

Emperor games are definitely tougher due to content penalty and AI bonuses.

You pretty much need to stop doing the 'I like to do' stuff so you can do the 'most desperately needed' stuff.

Ouch! my eardrums! Have a look here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=78267)

You have no idea how ironic that is :lol:. I have always been a loud person, or so people tell me.

In this case, the bold was more for emphasis as I put my question in the middle. From now on, I will try to be more quiet. :lol:

Good link. Thanks.

I am one of those that have rarely play above Monarch. GOTM31 (SS Loss) may have been the only complete game I ever played, I don't remember.

I know there are lots of useful discussions, articles, tips, etc. spread about, but how about giving us a top 5 list of things to do differently on emperor and/or Jungle maps?

For example, I find myself very attached to the idea of moving. I hate jungle maps. I like N & NW. Although, I am wondering how deep a hole I could dig myself.
Well, for the likes of yourself, you can always opt to play the 'conquest' class. These players will have a bit of an advantage for the starting settlement, because they will start with "a couple of extra units" ( :mischief: ) that can be used to check-out the surrounding terrain without wasting worker or settler turns.

Well, for the likes of yourself, you can always opt to play the 'conquest' class. These players will have a bit of an advantage for the starting settlement, because they will start with "a couple of extra units" ( :mischief: ) that can be used to check-out the surrounding terrain without wasting worker or settler turns.

I'm tempted... but I'd feel like I was wimping out. Ision's article was going to be my first port-of-call anyhow, followed by a couple of practice games :)

Neil. :cool:

Well, for the likes of yourself, you can always opt to play the 'conquest' class...
Sit at the kiddie table? No. Please. Not that! :mischief:


I think I can win on emperor 'Open' class. I just was thinking a little summary of dos and don'ts would be a good fresher. And it might be helpful for more then just me. I know we have play a much tighter game to do well.

My guesses: :cool:

No breadcrumbs. We followed that trail already.

Jungle/Forest and Mountain/Hills in 21 tiles around starting location. The three grasslands you see are it. Value of river tiles is low. (Hills/Mountain?)

Industrious/Militaristic.

NPStan

I don't care what the civ is. I just hope it is a panagaea. I dislike having to hunt around for AIs to kill. Attacking islands and continents requires a level of organisation that my empires generally lack.

Sit at the kiddie table? No. Please. Not that! :mischief:


I think I can win on emperor 'Open' class. I just was thinking a little summary of dos and don'ts would be a good fresher. And it might be helpful for more then just me. I know we have play a much tighter game to do well.

That's the spirit :) Just some small tips in addition to AlanH's url. Most of you know theese tips, but I hope some of it can be of use.

- Tunneling. Scout as deep and straight as possible as early as possible with your first warriors, don't wander to far from a straight line on the map. Once you hit a coast you can take the luxury to wander around. The speed of opposition expansion can close a potential door to further contacts. Don't put your first warriors to garrison your towns. Send them out.

- Excersize the slider. Don't be afraid to do a very early scout with warriors. Many players prefer a 0% luxury game, but on higher difficulties you must slice every ounce of opportunity to use the luxury slider. Trim it up and down as your town grows and shrinks. Scouting the terrain for luxury, huts(restless barbs make huts more attractive) and contacts is more important than getting a tech or a few pieces of gold a round faster.

- Share garrisons. Roads = fast and moveable garrisons between your early cities. Spot the time when a town grows, and be ready to send a garrison there. Roads before mines/irrigation let your workers do a fast retreat and also bringing your national guard quickly to the workers when the more potent vanilla/PTW barbs appear. A warrior at a content city is a waste of good military police powers.

- Archers are important while fighting barbs. Later horsemen. The time when you could safely send a warrior against a barbarian HM or warrior is past when you play at emperor level. I usually have an early archer for aggresive hunting of barbarians approaching my borders.

- Luxury. Don't hesitate to send a settler to far regions to claim luxury as early as possible. It might seem safe to wait, but the AI's expansion speed is noteworthy faster at Emperor. If it's close to their capitol you might want to slap a temple in there fairly soon to counter the chances of any flips caused by your rotten emperor lvl culture (workers, warriors and settlers don't generate much culture ;)

- Trade, trade and more trade. Check that foreign advisor for any trade every round. It might seem tedious, but missing a techtrade window, or worker trade is so much more impairing at higher difficulties.

- Firm science. Don't go halfway with your research. Either go at max rate, or opt to trade it for gold at minimum rate. Allways find the minimum level of science slider when you have one round left on research. You can save a lot of gold this way.

- Excersize your citizens. Count your food and shields and find out optimal distribution of your citizens on the valuable worked tiles. Your first cities must share worked tiles since you will most likely grow faster than your workers can improve the terrain. Though you should also have a higher worker count. I try to at least have 1 - 1.5 worker pr city, though this is very hard to do while expanding fast enough.

Every round will go much slower on Emperor level because of the level of micromanagement and time spent checking foreign advisor. Don't play too long and risk doing mistakes. Save the game often and get some fresh air to counter the boredom/tiredness. Good luck!

PS: Can't mention often enough the value of studying good players timelines in the higher difficulty QSC's. You find the URL's at the main GOTM site at the bottom left side of the screen under each GOTM.

An early hint about the civ?

Every round will go much slower on Emperor level because of the level of micromanagement and time spent checking foreign advisor. Don't play too long and risk doing mistakes. Save the game often and get some fresh air to counter the boredom/tiredness. Good luck!



This is my biggest mistake!! Think Pavlov's dog, I start salivating at the "press enter to end turn" message.

Hello all, great site for a newbie to learn the ropes. Thought I was a pretty good player, 'till I saw all the stuff here :(

Addicted to the thought of competing against fellow humans - so here I go. Submitted COTM01 - at least I finished. I'm going to make the effort to complete GOTM33 predator (boxing out of my weight division, but I enjoy the challenge).

First moves for me will be N & NE based on visibility and the river. Safe and simple, take it from there. I have tried the QSC for older GOTM and have learnt many valuable lessons. This will be my first time taking any form of notes on my game - hopefully that'll rein in my impetuous streak.

Well, for players who aren't too confident playing above regent / monarch, you'll be pleased to know that your civ has strong defence... :mischief:

Edit: Strong! Not string! :eek:

Greece, or Carthage, or maybe even Rome then. (If it's early strong defence.)

Neil. :cool:

Now we have to figure out what that cryptic clue means...string, string, string....long & thin? Like the spear that the greek hoplite holds? I dunno....tired & bored here :)

when will the game be out? 15th or 16th? just so I can plan my day.........

The page is up, and it's Greece:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/gotm33_greece.shtml

Oh, and the list of bonuses for Conquest players is scaring the crap outta me. 100g, a worker, and two Hoplites!

I need an offline server ;)

Yes, the announcement page is up. :)

QUOTE
Later, it was the Romans using very similar tactics who capture Greece. Can YOU prevent history repeating?
UNQUOTE

gulp! sounds pretty ominous...................

Oh, and the list of bonuses for Conquest players is scaring the crap outta me. 100g, a worker, and two Hoplites!
Look at it that way: would Ainwood really force a one or two city golden age on Conquest players? So we may have some time for development. :crazyeye: Or not. :cry:

That's the spirit :) Just some small tips in addition to AlanH's url. Most of you know theese tips, but I hope some of it can be of use.

- Tunneling. Scout as deep and straight as possible as early as possible with your first warriors, don't wander to far from a straight line on the map. Once you hit a coast you can take the luxury to wander around. The speed of opposition expansion can close a potential door to further contacts. Don't put your first warriors to garrison your towns. Send them out.

- Excersize the slider. Don't be afraid to do a very early scout with warriors. Many players prefer a 0% luxury game, but on higher difficulties you must slice every ounce of opportunity to use the luxury slider. Trim it up and down as your town grows and shrinks. Scouting the terrain for luxury, huts(restless barbs make huts more attractive) and contacts is more important than getting a tech or a few pieces of gold a round faster.

- Share garrisons. Roads = fast and moveable garrisons between your early cities. Spot the time when a town grows, and be ready to send a garrison there. Roads before mines/irrigation let your workers do a fast retreat and also bringing your national guard quickly to the workers when the more potent vanilla/PTW barbs appear. A warrior at a content city is a waste of good military police powers.

- Archers are important while fighting barbs. Later horsemen. The time when you could safely send a warrior against a barbarian HM or warrior is past when you play at emperor level. I usually have an early archer for aggresive hunting of barbarians approaching my borders.

- Luxury. Don't hesitate to send a settler to far regions to claim luxury as early as possible. It might seem safe to wait, but the AI's expansion speed is noteworthy faster at Emperor. If it's close to their capitol you might want to slap a temple in there fairly soon to counter the chances of any flips caused by your rotten emperor lvl culture (workers, warriors and settlers don't generate much culture ;)

- Trade, trade and more trade. Check that foreign advisor for any trade every round. It might seem tedious, but missing a techtrade window, or worker trade is so much more impairing at higher difficulties.

- Firm science. Don't go halfway with your research. Either go at max rate, or opt to trade it for gold at minimum rate. Allways find the minimum level of science slider when you have one round left on research. You can save a lot of gold this way.

- Excersize your citizens. Count your food and shields and find out optimal distribution of your citizens on the valuable worked tiles. Your first cities must share worked tiles since you will most likely grow faster than your workers can improve the terrain. Though you should also have a higher worker count. I try to at least have 1 - 1.5 worker pr city, though this is very hard to do while expanding fast enough.

Every round will go much slower on Emperor level because of the level of micromanagement and time spent checking foreign advisor. Don't play too long and risk doing mistakes. Save the game often and get some fresh air to counter the boredom/tiredness. Good luck!

PS: Can't mention often enough the value of studying good players timelines in the higher difficulty QSC's. You find the URL's at the main GOTM site at the bottom left side of the screen under each GOTM.

Good advice. :goodjob: Many thanks. I especially like the one about tunneling. :)

...
Hello all, great site for a newbie to learn the ropes. Thought I was a pretty good player, 'till I saw all the stuff here
...

Welcome to the forum!

You must be a fanatic if you're playing both GOTM's this month!

Keep an eye on the Sucession Games forum. You may want to join one of those next time.

Greece - yes! I would be very pessimistic if it were Celts.

Time to make the donuts....

!
You must be a fanatic if you're playing both GOTM's this month!

Keep an eye on the Sucession Games forum. You may want to join one of those next time.
What does that make us that play both GOTM's and SGTOM3?

What does that make us that play both GOTM's and SGTOM3?

Nuts! :crazyeye:
I'm going to have to skip this one, I just can't play 'em all, darn.

It would drive me nuts to change between the game versions. Once I get conquest there will be no going back.

What does that make us that play both GOTM's and SGTOM3?
very sleepy :sleep:

Now we have to figure out what that cryptic clue means...string, string, string....long & thin? Like the spear that the greek hoplite holds? I dunno....tired & bored here :)

That really was a wild guess...unless ainwood was actually trying to suggest that...

Now we have to figure out what that cryptic clue means...string, string, string....long & thin? Like the spear that the greek hoplite holds? I dunno....tired & bored here :)

That really was a wild guess...unless ainwood was actually trying to suggest that...

Well it's the 27th and I'm about to start this one. Lots of time on COTM 2 & a couple of SG's are going to make this one tough to finish on time. I just finished reading through the pregame discussions and since I'm going to play this one as either a 5CC or 10CC Space Race game (for speed reasons) and it seems like it's either settle in place or go north for everyone else, I think I'll be different south. So it's time for me and Cheetah to head into the jungle, I'll let you know what I find in the spoilers.

Edit: Thought about it a little more and decided to just make it a no-war game. I'll build defensive military only and attack only to reclaim one of my original cities. This will allow more flexability and still keep the speed going.