I just fixed some spelling errors in the Pediaicons file and now the mod is ready to be released :D . It still needs to get new buildings and a new tech tree, but that will come later (Thats because I dont know how to add them :lol: ). Any help to add buildings and the tech tree would be greatly appreciated :) .

Now here is the background for the mod:

The European Union has decided to join to become one nation and has conquered Earth, but the other nations have set up colonies on other planets across the galaxy. The other nations have been severely weakned, but have made an alliance to go to war with the EU. The other nations have more colonies, but the EU has far stronger planets. The Americans have invested all their efforts to research a super-weapon called the Hydro Carbon Bomb, which can decimate whole planets. Who will win the war for the galaxy?

This is a space mod using Vadus's space terrain. There are 24 new units added so far. I am very new at modding, so help would be apperciated. Please post suggestion for this mod. This mod also uses an edited version of Vadus's galaxy map.

Difficulty of Nation:

Arabs (Hard)
Mongols (Medium)
Korea (Easy)
Japan (Easy)
India (Medium)
Chinese (Hard)
America (Easy)
Zulu (Hard)
Egypt (Hard)
EU (Hardest)

(Difficulty as in difficulty to beat the game)

Edit: I cannot seem to be able to upload the file. I know I'm not doing anythink wrong (atleast I think), but it won't work. I clicked the Manage Attachments, then in that window, browse, then selected the zip file and double clicked on it and then clicked upload. It only brought the "Cannot Find Server" page.

I have figured out the problem, the files exceed the total amount of space you can use for files. Well now that I figured out the problem, can Thunderfall give me more space to post the mod?

Edit: The file is almost 20 MB, so can I please have 18 MB more space to post my mod?

Edit: nevermind

War against EU.

ROFLMAO.

Talking about political correctness.... :lol:

Gotta see this one though :)

- kirby

America (Easy)
EU (Hardest)

What have you got against us poor Europeans?! :rolleyes: Give us some super-doom-death-ships or something! :D

I've gotta agree with Muffins. The EU needs super-doom-death-ships! I shall smash the fat, overconfidant American fools! :devil2: :satan: :evil:
(please ignore the fact that I am an American)

Muffins....you aren't European...your British, you've got your own Commonwealth....so who cares about the French-led EU :p

Besides, many Americans(Myself included) admire and respect Britain and its excellent Prime Minister, plus we still use your Imperial System of measurement you gave us.....

Muffins....you aren't European...your British, you've got your own Commonwealth....so who cares about the French-led EU :p

Besides, many Americans(Myself included) admire and respect Britain and its excellent Prime Minister, plus we still use your Imperial System of measurement you gave us.....
hmmm ... :dubious: you want me to post a map showing that Britain is in Europe? :rolleyes: Or do you want me to post a really long and boring extract of European Law saying that the citizens of all member EU states automatically have European citizenship and can exercise their rights in regards to he European Parliament and European supreme court? :hmm:

... and as for Tony Blair (who seems to be hated here and loved like a god 'over there') and the Imperial System ... you can keep them. Blairs days as PM are numbered and the Imperial system is getting ditched for the Metric system ... which is a MUCH more sensible system :D

If you take the trouble to fly over, we can even gift-wrap Blair for you! :D

Why dont you like him? and why would you want to be a part of the EU? Your currency is worth more than the Euro is.

Yes, why do you hate Darth Blair so much? Unfotunutly he's still going to get a third term since there are plenty of idiots whole still vote for labour and the torries arn't a viable alternative.

One sugestion, the UK should have our own empire

....so who cares about the French-led EU ....

:lol: Napoleon is not dead !! I didn't know that Europe was french !! Very good news !!! :lol:

Well you guys seem to be the most influencial member of the EU. As a rule, the most influencal member of a group is always the leader. I have nothing against Frence people, but I find the actions of the French Government of late to be deplorable. Please elect someone else other than Jasque Chirac! Please! I want my country and yours to be friends again!

Well you guys seem to be the most influencial member of the EU. As a rule, the most influencal member of a group is always the leader. I have nothing against Frence people, but I find the actions of the French Government of late to be deplorable. Please elect someone else other than Jasque Chirac! Please! I want my country and yours to be friends again!

You know a lot of european people know very well who are their friends in these times of WAR !! :ar15:
... But between friends we can say things that are not very pleasant when we don't agree its why we are friends ... :beer:

:banana:

You made my country the Statue of Liberty, and we helped you kick the Nazis out of your country. Thats reason enough right?

You know a lot of european people know very well who are their friends in these times of WAR !! :ar15:
Jacques Chirac has less and less supporter even in his own team ... But between friends we can say things that are not very pleasant when we don't agree its why we are friends ... :beer:

:banana:

Not to continue the offtopic stuff, but there has always been a love/hate relationship with France and the entire world. Admit it, you guys like it that way.

For real though, Chirac (and the French people) can disagree with Bush and our Iraq policy all he wants but selling us out at the UN is not cool. Also, going against NATO sending troops to Afghanistan to ensure peaceful democratic elections is petty. The only reason to be against such a thing is because he wants to oppose GW Bush at every turn.

Where the heck is he?

Why dont you like him? and why would you want to be a part of the EU? Your currency is worth more than the Euro is.
:hmm: That's like me saying "Why would you want New England to be part of the US"

@Phant - I agree. We should have our own empire ... the problem is that the blinking colonial riff-raff have their own 'democracy' and and don't want to enjoy the benevolent rule of the British Empire anymore :rolleyes:

hmmm ... they might need to work on their 'democracy' thing a little more ... last time the guy who came second won :lol:

I'll keep quiet now ... sorry for the off-topic thread-jacking :D

hmmm ... they might need to work on their 'democracy' thing a little more ... last time the guy who came second won :lol:

I'll keep quiet now ... sorry for the off-topic thread-jacking :D

Don't apologize for the off-topic thread-jacking, but please feel free to do so for being a really cool guy.

No trolling.

Where's the download!

Where the heck is he?

It's the french president !!

I have to say, some people in here have strange believings of the EU. I mean the EU is far away from being led by the French. DON'T believe everything you're super presiden bush says. ;)

I certainly try it out when (if?) you upload it.

mitsho

Sorry, I haven't had access to a computer since I started this thread, so I couldn't read the suggestions. I requested Thunderfall to let me upload it moments ago. This thread seems to have become a political discussion.

Sorry, I haven't had access to a computer since I started this thread, so I couldn't read the suggestions. I requested Thunderfall to let me upload it moments ago. This thread seems to have become a political discussion.

It seems that your future mod will be very interesting ... Give EU good means and it will be ok ... ;)

EU only French? Oh, my God! This remember me when Britain had fear of a Jacobin Europe, with Napoleon!

Have you ever ear about some country like,... uhm, if I'm right... Germany and Italy?
The President of EU Commission was Prodi (Italy), now is a Portuguese. EU Central banker was Duisenberg (Germany), EU parliament is Cox (Eire). EU hymn is the Hymn of Joy, by Beethoven (German) and official language are all 25 language. A very French lobby, you can see.

And for british mesaurements (now abolished on Britain), why the International System use meters, Kilos and liters?

I'm against the European Union idea because it will likely spawn similiar organizations on other continents. Economic unity first, then political unity. Unless steps are taken to prevent it, the EU will become a country, and not simply an economic union. I'm also against the World Trade Organization, because global economic interpendants will lead to a World Government. The EU being a country will only speed up this process.

I'm against the European Union idea because it will likely spawn similiar organizations on other continents. Economic unity first, then political unity. Unless steps are taken to prevent it, the EU will become a country, and not simply an economic union. I'm also against the World Trade Organization, because global economic interpendants will lead to a World Government. The EU being a country will only speed up this process.
Hello Sword of Geddon ! I know that it's a [offtopic] but I can't resist to answer you a last time ... USA were , if I good remember, different states which allied themselves together... Some states were french like ... Louisiane.. It's the same for France , I live in south of France and this area was not french 500 years ago ... Same for Germany... Italy ... United Kindom ..etc .. This is the walk of history that little states ally and become bigger ...Personnally I believe in the future global human Union .. It's the only way for us to survive and to turn ourself to a new target : the Space ...
I'm tired of all our wars, we are all humans, no ?

I prefer to fight against Orcs ... ;)

( This mail doesn't cancel my previous mail about the actual war :ar15: )

Yes, I hate war. I think war is stupid. But if theres a one-world government, that will replace the evil of war with the evil of tyranny. I think a better way of doing it would be to have every country as a Democracy, since Democracys don't make war on other Democracys, and can generally get along better.

Another danger of the EU is that the people of a country would have a foreign will imposed on them. Granted its to late for the US, its not to late for you guys. Economic Unions are fine. Britain already has the Commonwealth.

Soccerrules - can you post some preview pics of your mod? I just want to see how you've handled Civ3 in space. Pleeeeeese :)

How about a list of units and technology to and their effects too? :goodjob:

@Sword_of_Geddon - how can you be against unification? That's like being against the unification of Italy and Germany in the 19th century :confused: I can't imagine you grinding your teeth in frustration at the thought of Prussia and Naples not being independent

Freedom for Saxony! :joke:

I was thinking to do a genetic European Leader to EU fantasy Civilization weeks ago, maybe it could be useful in this Mod :D
But I'm busy these days with dozens of new civilizations and other stuffs, but I wanna build te UE Fantasy Civ when I have time.
PS: the word "fantasy" was used, cos the civ is a group of many civis togheter, so, it is not a real civ ;)

@Sword: Remember that USA were created for economic problems (your ancestors didn't like to pay taxes to the king), after become a political thing. EU is 51 years old, so I think that is the time to have our political unity. Actually, the new Constitution make EU more near to citizens.

The truth is that USA don't like that Europe become an alternative power on world's scene.

The European Countries are banding toghether because alone they don't have the influence they once did. If Prussian and Naplese people wanted independence, thats their right.

Like southern Usa states :p

Well you guys seem to be the most influencial member of the EU. As a rule, the most influencal member of a group is always the leader. I have nothing against Frence people, but I find the actions of the French Government of late to be deplorable. Please elect someone else other than Jasque Chirac! Please! I want my country and yours to be friends again!

Underline: the french seem to be the most influencial. Really, the first power of the European country is only one: DEUTSCHELAND, with its powerful industial system, its economy and its poulation (over 80 millions). The Paris-Berlin axis has been done in order to give to the EU the political and military power of France BUT the economic power of Germany: so without France Germany (and EU) are nothing; and without Germany France (and EU) are less than nothing.

And nobody has to forget that the most "active" countries of Europe are the southern: Purtugal, Spain and Greece have the highest economic growth of the continent (forget Italy because of that idiot of Berlusconi who's going to be kicked in the ass by us, socialist and communist opposition). The "heart" of Europe so is moving to south and east. I would not wonder if in the future European Federation will not take part the UK: its people is too much reluctant.

Finally, I agree with muffins about that US servant of Tony Blair and with frenchman about the "dream" of a World Union, and I think that despite J. Chirac is a right-side politician, he's a very wise and skilled and leads a brilliant foreign policy.

The truth is that USA don't like that Europe become an alternative power on world's scene.

And they know that our economy is already stronger. And that our economic system is sustainable and not parassitary, so we don't need to go on war in order to make the corporations and the middle class happy.

Underline: the french seem to be the most influencial. Really, the first power of the European country is only one: DEUTSCHELAND, with its powerful industial system, its economy and its poulation (over 80 millions). The Paris-Berlin axis has been done in order to give to the EU the political and military power of France BUT the economic power of Germany: so without France Germany (and EU) are nothing; and without Germany France (and EU) are less than nothing.

And nobody has to forget that the most "active" countries of Europe are the southern: Purtugal, Spain and Greece have the highest economic growth of the continent (forget Italy because of that idiot of Berlusconi who's going to be kicked in the ass by us, socialist and communist opposition). The "heart" of Europe so is moving to south and east. I would not wonder if in the future European Federation will not take part the UK: its people is too much reluctant.

Finally, I agree with muffins about that US servant of Tony Blair and with frenchman about the "dream" of a World Union, and I think that despite J. Chirac is a right-side politician, he's a very wise and skilled and leads a brilliant foreign policy.

I like this thread because we are seeing a real Union of european people .. :goodjob: Long life to Europa !! :clap:

Humm ! Soccerrules ... Please don't forget to give us good weapons in your mod ... ;)

Please remember this is a scenario not a debate thread. Go spam in OT. :)

Ok, the last one.

I like this thread because we are seeing a real Union of european people .. :goodjob: Long life to Europa !! :clap:


:band:
Freude, schöner Götterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
Deine Zauber binden wieder,
Was die Mode streng geteilt;
Alle Menschen werden Brüder,
Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

Or, on english:

Joy, o wondrous spark divine,
Daughter of Elysium,
Drunk with fire now we enter,
Heavenly one, your holy shrine.
Your magic powers join again
What fashion strictly did divide;
Brotherhood unites all men
Where your gentle wing's spread wide.

And they know that our economy is already stronger. And that our economic system is sustainable and not parassitary, so we don't need to go on war in order to make the corporations and the middle class happy.

Your mean. Communism is an evil system which is anti-religion and anti-cultural. More people have died under communist governments than under Hitler's accursed Nazi Germany.

The US went to War to protect ourselves from Terrorism, not for any economic reasons. In fact, the economy is hurting because lots of our budget is going into the Military.

A better name for you would be Red Meanie! So there! :p

:band:
Freude, schöner Götterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
Deine Zauber binden wieder,
Was die Mode streng geteilt;
Alle Menschen werden Brüder,
Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

Longa vita Europae (Latin) or... Lange Leben für Europa (German)


@Sword of Geddon

I'm not Communist. I belong to a party called "Democrats of Left" (the first one of Italy) which is pro-free trade but, first of all, pro-democracy, pro-Europe and pro-working class.

My party is "son" of the Italian Communist party, it is true, but the Italian Communism was (is) totally different from the Soviet one. It was pro-democracy, anti-totalitarian, and pacifist. Our old leader, E. Berlinguer, was hated in Moscow because he said that "he felt himself safer in N.A.T.O." and that the Soviet Union was totalitarian. This great man was called by Kissinger the "Red Threat" because he dreamt a world without war, a Europe democrat and socialist and the end of USSR and USA military and political supremacy. Now you can understand my nick.

I hope this will be the last OT post.


About the "war against EU" mod, how can I download it and make it compatible with a non-English version of C3C?!

I don't think I'd mind the US having a weaker military if other allied nations had a stronger military. Most of the European Countries(With the exception of Great Britain and several other European Powers), have been content to let the US fight for them.

The funny part about this mod is, its Anti-EU! And you guys want to play it!

I don't think I'd mind the US having a weaker military if other allied nations had a stronger military. Most of the European Countries(With the exception of Great Britain and several other European Powers), have been content to let the US fight for them.

The funny part about this mod is, its Anti-EU! And you guys want to play it!

We never surrender Sword of Geddon !! Never .. :lol: I'm impatient to play this mod where if I good understand the EU is a great power ... :goodjob: It changes from the real life .... :lol:

Is there a way to simulate that most European armies don't fight on weekends? :mischief:

i think jacque shirac not wanting to send troops to ensure a smooth election in aftghanistan dumb, oh and this site is pretty funny http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/france.html

and i also heard that if american troops werent in west europe during the cold the russians could have taken over all of europe in a few hours

personally i think every american citizen should have to serve a tour in the army once they turn 18, i mean germany and spain do that and germany hasnt had a war since ww2 and spain since the western sahara war in the 70s, nad america is always at war

i think jacque shirac not wanting to send troops to ensure a smooth election in aftghanistan dumb, oh and this site is pretty funny http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/france.html

and i also heard that if american troops werent in west europe during the cold the russians could have taken over all of europe in a few hours

personally i think every american citizen should have to serve a tour in the army once they turn 18, i mean germany and spain do that and germany hasnt had a war since ww2 and spain since the western sahara war in the 70s, nad america is always at war

Hé ! Hé ! Interesting link ! Very funny ! You know the french are always joking about themselves, so it's not a problem ... And I'm italian ... :lol: ... But there is one victory of France it was forgotten : William the Conqueror, he was a northman, ok ... but he came with a lot of french knights and it's why the english language is very near the french language because he spoke french and was totally living with french habits ... So French, helped by William, were the only ones to conquer England since 1000 years .... ;) [dance]

Is there a way to simulate that most European armies don't fight on weekends? :mischief:
Hé ! Hé ! About which european army are you speaking about ?? In France we have just one Elite force : the french foreign Legion !! :salute:
We send foreigners to fight so we have not problems with weekends ... :lol:

ya but ol' willy used a lot of normans and britons brittany which is in west france

and the french freign legion isnt really elite, ts just a bunch of foreigners, i think americaa should hav a foreign legion becaause we could get aa lot of mexicans to join if the serving in the legion allowed them to be citizens

ya but ol' willy used a lot of normans and britons brittany which is in west france

and the french freign legion isnt really elite, ts just a bunch of foreigners, i think americaa should hav a foreign legion becaause we could get aa lot of mexicans to join if the serving in the legion allowed them to be citizens

If FFLegion is not an elite troop I don't know who is one .... :lol:
They have proved several times that they are great soldiers .... And for USA as far as I know there are a lot of mexicans in Irak in the american army ..This is the information we have in France ...
we should stop this [offtopic] now, I think ... :blush:

frenchman we'll keep up this convo here http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=2018032#post2018032

France historically has been one of the least evil of all Western Nations(They never commited Genocide for example) Which makes recent events tragic.

But thats off topic.

never commited genocide?
you're joking, i hope?

What about Catharina de Medici and her Bartolomäusnacht (the german name, have no idea about the english one), and the French Revolution has also seen much blood. But stop this, it's off topic

mfG mitsho

Doesn't anyone remember that the first modern "lagers" (working camps) where used by the Americans during the Civil War (again, in WWII against the Japanese)?!

And what about the English and the Zulus?! And the Spanish and the Americans with the natives of the New World?

And the raising down of Carthage and Corinth by the romans in 136 BC?! Every great nation is born on blood.

muffins you got some things right up there in your head.. i am glad.. i am from slovenia a newly state in Eu and personaly think that cultural-economical-military-whatever connection of the nations and forgeting the "nationality based states" is the future the earthling must become one.. thinking on commongood.. realizing of possibilities of a comet hitting earth.. or increasing space reaserch.. what do you know maybi tommorew can be an end of the world.. or meybi you die.. and still we fight.. inspite the fact that is much much much better to kiss and so on.. ;) model of USA is very good.. true they are dumb.. true they are narrowminded in some ways.. but still.. they kicck ass.. and i belive that future lies in connection not war.. but as a regular civ player i can say that war is fun and profitable and so on.. :D furthermore they have a lot of good stuff and so do europeans... so do russians.. so do africa.. so do everybody.. but i guess its in the nature of a human being that it cant take what it can and give what it needed, its much easier to just take it all or lose it.. and i would love to vote my vote in a cast where it would be a sign - United States of Earth :crazyeye: we as humanitiy are at the "end of a game" and i belive that we must do another step towards the future.. forgetting stupid 3meter walls (and by the way metric system is much more usfull but after all we europeans can do calculate it to metric so it has no harm).. like in europe we did.. somehow.. dont get me wrong.. i aint saying that we should quit war budget.. i would even higher it my self.. :scan: but to another purpose.. to not a man slouther machine. but useful machines.. today we allready have technologies that arent even a part of civ, like intenet, we have great infrasrtukture.. so my basic idea is if there would be "peace on earth" in form of a mega state.democratic goverment.. on the net info and orders and everything comes very fast s it makes a world much smaller.. and think! having "peace" and infrastructure we may develop more ideas, increase science.. and build some **** like orbital fighters.. and bombers.. to perhaps defend from a mega-speedy giant piece of rock hitting earth.. or whatever there might be there.. we acctualy must be ready all the time.. strong police.. good use of science.. ihumanity as i see has stopped here at a point where nobady even knows what we're living for anywy. true.. theres money.. theres women.. there are a lot of good thing in life.. but than again.. you are born.. in a small village next to a tree in savannah.. peace and quiet.. non harmfull socieaty.. some years past bay.. you learned this and that.. interested in some basic question just as every european, chinese or russian.. why are the stars so far.. can i get them.. i am so small.. just a part of something bigger.. much bigger.. some even kill animls with some kinda drug to drug her so it doesnt hurt a lot.. and here using drugs on and on.. from alcohol to tobbaco.. from weed to ecstacy, shroomz, and on and on..naw the boy.. sees the savvanh in evening sun.. hear the whatever he haers.. and suddenly.. one night.. group of ten men walk in.. slaves al l men and rapes women.. kills old and takes the rest.. sells brothers and sisters (and money goes to terrorism or to state which has to pay something that is getting from another state) .. wepons.. anything.. and that boys finds himnself after three day of killing walk on a front.. they fill him with drugs.. and put a gun in hand and hike!.. cannonfood we sayy owerhere in slovenia.. cannonfood.. as i va heard longest record on front was three weeks.. man .. khm a boy of 13.. was a hero :crazyeye:
khm khm if enyone has taken its valuable time to read my yabadaba as so some are surley to say :) tha is so far uture that stinks.. but still.. we the humans have survived.. so muchwar thet is almost unbeliavle.. two world wars -americans thank you for your support. great.. and we helped you too.. and mutual help is what we both want.. i personaly didnt vote for my country to join NATO but still i am not so upset abut it.. there are some fine man among slovenian troops (very few indeed hihi) yes yes :D anyhow mutuality and connections to humas i say.. and to conquer the univers not killing people.. that is boredom allready.. its the same as killing a pig.. lets find some nasty space bastrds and smash them.. now wouldnt you like to plan your vacation on one of the uranus moons.. and checking the email news about the growth of production and numbers of space cruisers and stations and orbital citties earth allready has.. true between planets we dont really know how to have a fast line (like internet oon earht itself) but firstly that is a problem that united scientists could fair with pleasure.. and secondly that is my mind wondering about a problem that i hope scientists could deal about with not in so distant future.

anyway.. lets play the game of life together and respect of one another respecting good thing and tried to counquer bad things.. think globally act locally..

Although i did enjoy reading the off topic posts, i really was hoping to download a scenario somewhere along the line, .... oh well.
Being a Scot, i like the french, Auld Alliance and all that.
And the french resistance saved many an allied aisman.
And werent the Franks proto french.... they ran europe at one point.

Although i did enjoy reading the off topic posts, i really was hoping to download a scenario somewhere along the line, .... oh well.
Being a Scot, i like the french, Auld Alliance and all that.
And the french resistance saved many an allied aisman.
And werent the Franks proto french.... they ran europe at one point.


Yes ! I know the Auld Alliance !! I like Scotland too and in my scenario Scotland is always in alliance with France .. I use the great leader Robert The Bruce created by Sween 32 ... And try to have specific units for this civilization but I didn't find a lot of units... Could you have some ?

An allaince of countries and former countries that hate England lol!

Take a ticket and wait in line ;)

Let's stop the calls for stopping the off-topic comments, I think its great that all these political opionions from people world over are being brought together by a Civ3 mod. And who says we're obsessed...

Its good fun seeing different guys trying to understand the other country's poitns of view. I'm studying politics for A-Level to go on to do it at University so its great hearing these views. Along with the distinct absense of Euopean Super Death Rockets. That too.

For people who are still interested, Sword of Geddon, you asked why the British people don't like Blair. For the most part people like some of what his government has done, but taking us into a war which has cost billions of £s, stationed what troops Britain does have a couple of thousand miles away, caused over 100 British soldiers dead (and lets not forget the 10,000 or so Iraqi civilians) and raised the threat of terrorism the world over, Britain, the US, Spain and other participants most of all, and for no WMDs that we were told existed, no reduction of the terrorist threat etc. etc. And Blair runs a centralised authoritarian government that has disregarded most of the consensual practices of the British system. So you can't blame us for getting a bit pissed off at him.

As for the EU, many British people are against it. Those who are for it realise that our economy is strongly dependant on it, that our international political influence is greatly raised by being a member (such as in the Steel Tariff battle where we managed to force the USA to stop its illegal taxes on foreign steel :) ), that generally the EU has worked to establish Human Rights and common trade practicies that our government has failed to, and so on. For nationalists...now that we don't have the British Empire, better to be a leading part of the rising world economic power than stranded in the Atlantic.

What I don't understand, and maybe someone American can explain, is why Americans hate the French so much...or have done since they attacked you over the Iraq war. All this rubbish about renaming French Fries Freedom Fries I mean please! Have you guys forgotten that without the French the US would never have won the war of independance, indeed, it would never have begun, it was onyl French support that gave the revolutionaries the capability to make a bid for independence in the first place, and the French Empire of the time practically bankrupted themselves to help you get independence from Britain. You'd think the US would remember that not insignificant fact...

An allaince of countries and former countries that hate England lol!


Thats a whole different scenario

What I don't understand, and maybe someone American can explain, is why Americans hate the French so much...or have done since they attacked you over the Iraq war. All this rubbish about renaming French Fries Freedom Fries I mean please! Have you guys forgotten that without the French the US would never have won the war of independance, indeed, it would never have begun, it was onyl French support that gave the revolutionaries the capability to make a bid for independence in the first place, and the French Empire of the time practically bankrupted themselves to help you get independence from Britain. You'd think the US would remember that not insignificant fact...

The comic thing is that the greatest american symbol is french!

What I don't understand, and maybe someone American can explain, is why Americans hate the French so much...or have done since they attacked you over the Iraq war. All this rubbish about renaming French Fries Freedom Fries I mean please! Have you guys forgotten that without the French the US would never have won the war of independance, indeed, it would never have begun, it was onyl French support that gave the revolutionaries the capability to make a bid for independence in the first place, and the French Empire of the time practically bankrupted themselves to help you get independence from Britain. You'd think the US would remember that not insignificant fact...
And America aided France during its darkest hours in WWII.

I think most people understand that when someone "hates France" it typically means the current French government - that of Jacques Chirac - which, in the eyes of many Americans, goes out of its way to oppose the United States just for the sake of opposing the United States, as seen in their attempts to turn the E.U. into something which "counterbalances" America. The language and motive are seen as suspicious, because someone who wants to "counterbalance" you isn't exactly what you would call a loyal ally. However, many people abroad feel the same way about the Bush administration. I think it's kind of implicit that when you say "France" or "America" or "Great Britain" you're really saying "Jacques Chirac", "George Bush", or "Tony Blair". It's no real animosity toward the peoples of that nationality, simply to their government.

I myself do not like the way the French government has conducted itself in recent matters, though I can see their motivations and reasons for doing so - France's government is there to serve France, not the United States - however, most of what dislike I have for the French government relates directly to Jacques Chirac himself. I can't say I harbor any ill-will to the average French citizen or anyone of any nationality for that matter.

Obviously, I can only speak for myself, but that's the way I see it - it's more of a response to the actions of another's government than to the people of that country.

Symphony D, agree with what you said, but on a totally different topic, isn't your signature a modified line from the Simpsons :)?

Ok at little question:
HOW THE HELL CAN EU CONQUER THE EARTH :confused::confused::confused:
Sorry for that. But Eu cant even send a stupid little robot up to mars so how the hell do u think that Eu can conquer the world :confused::confused::confused:
Anyway Good Mod:goodjob:

They launched a sneak attack on the weekend, when everyone thought their army was off duty :D
Seriously though, I like the EU and what it stands for. Nationalism has given nothing to anyone save years of blood and death.

Nationalism like the French getting millions of dollasrs from Iraq so they wont back us in their .... open minded spirit.... not to mention the Germans and Russians following their own financial intrests rather then help us....Just look at the oil for food money paying off those 3 countries to see that they dont worry about their national intrests.
Now that Russia was just hit they think they have the right to defend themselves in any region of the world now as well. Funny how that works.
We are not the bad guys in the world, we rebuilt Germany and Japan after the war and will do the same for Iraq.... They had their fanatics for 10 years after WWII fighting us and blowing stuff up .. but you dont remember that I suppose. Now they are reasonably peaceful members of the Globe. Now Iraq may be a bit different because they have fuzzy boarders and cultures ...not to mention Syra and Iran helping fuel the fires. But once Sadam is dead they can make a choice ... they are still living in fear that he could get free and regain power as long as he is still alive. You dont know that kind of terror and it may take a generation to get past the fear he instilled in that population. Nationalism has given us the ability to be free. If not for that Germany and Japan would have won WWII ... look at the structure of those two nations back then and see how we would be living today. We on the whole still try to be the good guys. Our army is defending us well .. we haven't been hit in 3 years. We still owe our freedom to the soldier, and always will. By definition if you remove one tiny bit of evil the world is a safer better place. So if you think Sadam was the slightest bit evil or dangerous to anyone .. then the world is a better place.

Nationalism like the French getting millions of dollasrs from Iraq so they wont back us in their .... open minded spirit.... not to mention the Germans and Russians following their own financial intrests rather then help us....Just look at the oil for food money paying off those 3 countries to see that they dont worry about their national intrests.
Now that Russia was just hit they think they have the right to defend themselves in any region of the world now as well. Funny how that works.
We are not the bad guys in the world, we rebuilt Germany and Japan after the war and will do the same for Iraq.... They had their fanatics for 10 years after WWII fighting us and blowing stuff up .. but you dont remember that I suppose. Now they are reasonably peaceful members of the Globe. Now Iraq may be a bit different because they have fuzzy boarders and cultures ...not to mention Syra and Iran helping fuel the fires. But once Sadam is dead they can make a choice ... they are still living in fear that he could get free and regain power as long as he is still alive. You dont know that kind of terror and it may take a generation to get past the fear he instilled in that population. Nationalism has given us the ability to be free. If not for that Germany and Japan would have won WWII ... look at the structure of those two nations back then and see how we would be living today. We on the whole still try to be the good guys. Our army is defending us well .. we haven't been hit in 3 years. We still owe our freedom to the soldier, and always will. By definition if you remove one tiny bit of evil the world is a safer better place. So if you think Sadam was the slightest bit evil or dangerous to anyone .. then the world is a better place.
I'm afraid that Corvex is correct ... nationalism offers nothing except death and war. WW2 was triggered by out-of-control nationalism in both Japan and Germany. Nationalism in Iraq is a discreditied force because Saddam used it greatly in his propaganda and is now associated (by Iraqis) with the hated Ba'ath Party and Saddam's regime. North Korea's ultra-nationalism is so extreme that it makes the likes of WW2 Germany and Japan look like amaters.

And I promise you, if the ultra-nationalists in the US get re-elected in November then they will start another war or two. :rolleyes:

uhm....did i miss a download link or two?

@Webrider you make one BIG mistake. You divide the world in good&bad. And that's just wrong. We are not good or bad, we are but humans.
IF you divide the world like you did, you are right. For you subjectively, the U.S are then the glorious winners and savers of the Earth, et cetera...
But that's not reality.

mfG mitsho

Mitsho is right. The only goo/bad you ever see in history is in the idiotic, obviosly biased history books that we're supposed to learn from. In reality, there is no good or bad. Even Hitler did some good, rebuilding German'ies econamy.

Good not blow up trade centers.... Bad blow up trade centers... easy.
Good not torture and kill 10,000's of people .... Bad kill and torture 10,000's of people.
easy again.

Mitsho, we did save Europe and China in WWII no doubt about that.
We did not conquer Europe after WWII nor did we want to.
We dont hold Japan as the State of Japan we gave it back, because it was the right (good) thing to do. We try to help when we can, just don't attack us. (simple)

Good not blow up trade centers.... Bad blow up trade centers... easy.
Good not torture and kill 10,000's of people .... Bad kill and torture 10,000's of people.
easy again.

Mitsho, we did save Europe and China in WWII no doubt about that.
We did not conquer Europe after WWII nor did we want to.
We dont hold Japan as the State of Japan we gave it back, because it was the right (good) thing to do. We try to help when we can, just don't attack us. (simple)
Ah, but that is using the good-bad mentality we are taught from an early age. For all we know, it could comletely be wrong.

A few things. Where the hell is Australia. You cant think we are that insignificant can you? It is predicted that we will become one of the top economical super powers in the near future.

Going back a bit True Communism or how it should of been if Lenin hadnt died so early is a more pure form of democracy. Giving everyone a vote and more importantly actually making that vote count. Nicagura (Cant spell it, i think its in Africa or South america) is a prime example they set up commities in every town and the people decided what was the best for their area and who should represent them. This is very similar to Democracies system of councils granted but it worked better. Well until a certain country backed local terroists to overthrow violently the government. These terroists because you can call them nothing less raped and butchered the people of this country. America has opposed Communism since the start. This is valid in certain areas such as stalin. But in others America has gone too far.


With the hating of G.W Bush or Tony Blair the same can easily be said here against John Howard. Though no-one really notices.

In truth the uniting of the world is the next logical step and probaly the best one available. I fear though that the only two ways that it will actually come to fruitition is if one of the Superpowers wipes out the others and takes conmtrol or if we are invaded by aliens.

Sadam was a bastard true but why not just assasinate him. Please dont tell me he was too hard to get at. America had the resourcesor still has. In my opinion that wouldnt have pissed people off as much. They could have finished his regime which seems to be the only good thing we have done without killing a single civilian.

I'm finding it quite amusing to see my fellow Americans believe they know all the in's and out's of the EU and cringing as the Europeans completely butcher US history :rolleyes: continue the good work! very amusing :D

A few things. Where the hell is Australia. You cant think we are that insignificant can you? It is predicted that we will become one of the top economical super powers in the near future.
Thats cuz we have forgotten u, apart from thrashing u at cricket :lol:

@Webringer, the world trade centre belived in free trade no? but free trade for whom (for the mega corps, like Monsanto) not the third world traders who get sold GM crops that don't seed and are pattened so that they can't farm in the old style and are forced to buy more of this infertile crop. Is that good? The world is not so black and white, more a kind of greyish mess.
Winstein Churchill used gas before Hitler, the Americans sold Natzi Germany weapons, before they joined in the fight (and that was only after Pearl Harbour, and much coaxing from Europe). And now its writen that the glorious Americans saved us. MMM

Workers of the World unite and over throw the tyrany of the corprations, well maybe not but the corperations are alike despots and the goverments their subjects. Or something like that?

EU is good, Bush is bad, I'm the best! hmm... no, but I think EU is good, but some of their laws sucks, and bush should be good if he didn't go in the wars... also, I think the only thing that can Ally earth is if we discover an alien who wanna conquer us :P

A few things. Where the hell is Australia. You cant think we are that insignificant can you? It is predicted that we will become one of the top economical super powers in the near future.

Is this the same Oztralia that has fewer people and a lower GDP per capita than the Netherlands? ;)

Europe doesn't start Britain and end France, for god sake grow up ! Read some books on history or smth... Europeans are VERY different. It makes me angry when American even use this word too offen - european, it's not a nationality duh ! Each country and nation is very unique and special. Over hundrets of years common history of culture, science and wars 'europeans' learned how to RESPECT each country on this planet contrary to Americans, which can only get fatter and fatter from their own greed and drop some bombs on some hopeless country every ten years.

oh and this site is pretty funny http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/france.html

Yes, that site is pretty funny cause of the writer's anti-french attitude. And he clearly is american; no doubt about that. :mischief:

- Gallic Wars
- Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian.

France didn't even exist then! It was full of minor tribes, that were fightning each other aswell.

And what about wars that united most of the France? Surely that wise historian wouldn't forget that... or would he?

- Hundred Years War
- Mostly lost, saved at last by female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare; "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman." Sainted.

"Mostly lost", hahaha! That just shows writer's attitude towards France... So conquering Brittany (Bretogne or whatever) and actually winning the war wouldn't meant anything?

- American Revolution
- In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare; "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."

Europeans saw far more action that americans in WW1/WW2, so with that logic americans shouldn't be proud of their accomplishments on those wars. :confused:
"America only wins if France gives support." - this sounds more logical to me.

- French Revolution
- Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.

Were there only one revolution???? :king:

- The Napoleonic Wars
- Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.

Hmm... let's see.. Germany expanded hugely in WW2, but lost at the end; they are tough guys!
France expanded hugely at Napoleonic Wars, but lost at end; they must be sissy girls!

And wow! Did that one corsican lead the whole french army! Must be hard to be the only general on own side... :rolleyes:

- World War I
- Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States. Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.

If that guy who writed that text studied history, he knows that Germany was crumbling on inside, and they wouldn't be able to do anything to break french lines. Actually french were on the neck.
Sorry to say to all americans, but USA's efford in WW1 didn't mean anything... that's the fact. At the other side WW2 may have been ended differently without the Lend-Lease agreements.

- World War II
- Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.

This guy sure knows how to tell fairytales. I thought that France won the war? Or was it part of the axis? What i have missed? :confused: :confused: Africa, Middle-East, Far-East, back in Europe... busy at the whole war.

And BTW, it is "Horst Wessel Lied".

- War in Indochina
- Lost. French forces plead sickness; take to bed with the Dien Bien Flu

True.
But where's the fact, that France won war in Indochina ~100 years earlier?

And i suggest, that americans don't stay on this subject. :D

- War on Terrorism
- France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's.

War on what? Nobody threats France. So why go at war?
Terrorists have always been - and will be. Bush invented "war on terrorism", for an excuse to go to Iraq (this was not an opinion, because Iraq doesnt support terrorists towards western world). Afghanistan was purely "terrorist state", but aren't there UN corps with frenchmen?


Pure propaganda. :goodjob:

Hello guys! I am a European and I'm very fond of cute, well-educated Americans who speak more than one language and can locate Uganda on the map in less than 20 seconds (Ha! No need to guess how many percent of your fellow citizens will menage this!). Also I'm very grateful to that american (and russian) soldiers who gave their lives in WWII to save the world from fascists. Never forget, too, those French, Netherlander, Germans, Polish, Canadian, British and many more, who fighted in an army or underground against the Nazi regime.

Unlike in US, in Europe many cities were devastated and millions of civilians were killed, and still millions elder people remember their being bombed and loosing their homes and families. That's why for most Europeans a real war is not just a word but a very concrete, awfull memory. Americans always fighted their wars outside of their country and for most of them war is an abstract thing suitable to demonstrate the triumph of democracy and freedom over the tyranny and despotism.

Guys, world is a much more complex thing than your chief-of-a-president and your local priest have ever told you! Go to you city library, get some books and lear more about the history of this planet!

- America got into WWII not in order to free France or help GB, but because Germans have torpedoed and sank some of biger ships near England and a lot of american passengers drawnd.

- Japan began the war against America (WWII) due to the fact, that american expansion in South-East Asia threaten its shipment routes and the supply with oil. Japan never threatened Americans at their homes and never prepared to land in San Francisco. Unnesessary to mention, that at the very first contact to an American ship Japanes politely refused any contact and were then bombarded as a sign of a good will. In 1945, despite of Japanese will to surrender on terms (since February-March), US Goverment refused any talks and insisted an a termless capitulation. The followed extinction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki by nuclear bombing were absolutely unnecessary from military point of view and are untill now the most awfull examples of war crimes.

- The war in Vietnam with millions of dead Vietnamese should be present to every American, but seems already forgotten. Any reparations were never paid.

- The military putsch in Argentina (Pinochet) was supported by CIA as well as many similiar putsches in Africa, were beginning democracies were destroyed with american help due to financial and military interests of United States.

Should I continue? The Taliban in Afghanistan with all their weapons and terroist training camps were supported by US-Goverment in the 80ties; Saddam Hussein and Oliver Noriega were best friends of US in former times. The sad truth is, that many of US goverments never cared a bit about democracy or freedom in the world. They were very often talking about this, but their ruled an the contrary.

Yes, Germans killed millions of jewish people at Nazi time. And, yes, Spanish massacred Azteks and other Indians. And, yes, French have misbehaved in Indochina. The difference is, WE HAVE LEARNED FROM HISTORY. For example, Germany is now a democratic country which together with Japan provide 30% of United Nations budget (Americans, however, prefer not to pay since years...). Germany as well is paying some compensations to jewish survivers (at least as a sign of a good will). Vietnam, to my knowledge, never received anything from US government.

Besides, not every nation desires democracy and western economical system. Why do this fools do this? Because they have different history and not neccessary are ready for it. Keep in mind, that democracy only functions well in societies with certain education level and a social structure similiar to ours. In a country, where society consists of clans with a local tribe chief, people also can live fine without striving and despotry. THEY ARE JUST FINE HOW THEIR ARE. Sure, Saddam was an *******, but the mislead attempt to enforce democracy in a country with a clan system and big religeous conflicts has lead to a near-by catastrophe, precisely like every sane european leader or scientist had forecasted. Unfortunately, a lot of Americans suffered the mass psychose which their believe being patriotism. Didn't you guys realize, that almost ALL of UN member countries were against the Iraq war and also Kofi Annan, UN secretary, called it clearly illegal?

The only hope for the world is now, that true american patriots will put their country back onto the right way, in order to join other democracies and not such "friends" like Sudan or Malaysia.

To get the bow back to the game ("War against EU"): Plese enable a diplomatic victory option! And to the "Super-Overkill-Weapon": Remember what happens in CIV to people who drop a nuke or poison drinking water in a city? Right, all Civs make an alliance against this "Ax of the Evel"!!! And guess, who will be the one?

Please give us a "Federation"-World Wonder!!! With the help of Vulkan we will hit the stupid Ferrenghies!

When does history stop and learning start? When the French were misbehaving in Indochina, for example, they did have ALL that time to reflect back on, and they did it anyway; same is true for every other war in Europe or elsewhere. Just because things seem fairly peaceful now, doesn't mean that Europe or anyone else has actually learned anything. As an American, I naively thought we had LEARNED more or less during the Clinton administration, and that was only 4 years ago (of course there were some shady things there as well, but hey, shady is a fact of life unfortunately in most govs).

Where were the learned people in the recent east German elections? Attitudes towards Sudan? Is Europe really doing anything more or less than the US in Sudan, or are we fighting over terminologies at the UN (think we have been/still are??!??). Thought we had learned something from WWII. Personally, I think maybe Scandinavia has got it right for the moment (not much in the way of human rights abuses in the last x years, at least I don't think so and if there has please someone say something). The rest of us, well, we're just sitting on our hands waiting for good or bad politicians to take office, but hopefully voting for what we think is right (and not believing it when that isn't the outcome). Even if you disagree with Blair, he's still in office. Europe can talk when there's no wars or abuses instigated for well, I don't really know the duration. Need I remind people that there actually were Europeans in that silly coalition? Still, anyone but Bush will be an improvement.

Please, though, lets get back to civ and the mod...

[QUOTE=vanrozenheim]Hello guys! I am a European and I'm very fond of cute, well-educated Americans who speak more than one language and can locate Uganda on the map in less than 20 seconds (Ha! No need to guess how many percent of your fellow citizens will menage this!).QUOTE]

It's great to know that you generalize 300 million people by the ignorance of a few and by doing so show your own ignorance, I apologize on the behalf of my countryman but am sorry that you made the same mistake as he.

Good not blow up trade centers.... Bad blow up trade centers... easy.
Good not torture and kill 10,000's of people .... Bad kill and torture 10,000's of people.
easy again.

Well, good don't invade other countries illegally, bad do. Looks pretty easy to me. Good uphold international environmental protocols, bad don't. Good don't have capital punishment, bad do. Your simplistic worldview can be turned against you just as much as any other country. That's because most simplistic worldviews are just wrong.

And why hasn't this thread been moved to the Off-Topic forum where it so clearly belongs, and where there are already a million threads debating exactly these same things?

Yea sorry bud, the parallels between environmental protocols and murdering innocent people aren't as strong as you assert.

If its more nuanced to think that the United States is a simplistic, evil society while the EU is a modern day utopia then feel free to live the good live on the other side of the atlantic.


Well, good don't invade other countries illegally, bad do. Looks pretty easy to me. Good uphold international environmental protocols, bad don't. Good don't have capital punishment, bad do. Your simplistic worldview can be turned against you just as much as any other country. That's because most simplistic worldviews are just wrong.

And why hasn't this thread been moved to the Off-Topic forum where it so clearly belongs, and where there are already a million threads debating exactly these same things?

Hello everyone. I have been reading these posts and it is great to know that people in this world still actually think!! (I had written off most of humanity as unthinking and apathetic.)
I would like to state for the record that I am a (proud) American citizen. I do not let that pride blind me to the facts. I am conscious of the fact that Europe has a great deal to be proud of. Europe has given the world things like the ideals of the Enlightenment, the Scientific Revolution, the Industrial Revolution, and the like.
I would also like to state that I like the majority of Europeans I have met, some get on my nerves, but then so do some Americans. Overall, most of the Europeans I've met are decent, average, hardworking people (not any better or worse than your average American).
The reason for this entire post is to correct a few errors made in a previous post by Vanrozenheim. I am not "picking on you". I am just correcting a few errors.

- America got into WWII not in order to free France or help GB, but because Germans have torpedoed and sank some of biger ships near England and a lot of american passengers drawnd.

Point of Fact: The US had no intention of going to war in Europe. We, the US, entered the Second World War ONLY in the Pacific Theater in response to Pearl Harbor. It was not until several days later that we entered the North African and European Theaters of war. And then we only enter them due to the fact that Nazi Germany (followed shortly thereafter by Fascist Italy) declared war on us first! Had the declarations of war by Germany and Italy not taken place, it may have been several months or years until Roosevelt could have made a good enough case before Congress to drag us into "a European war". (Remember that before Pearl Harbor there was a very strong isolationist movement in America). If the real reason for entering the European Theater was the German interdiction of shipping, the US would have entered the war as early as 1940.

- Japan began the war against America (WWII) due to the fact, that american expansion in South-East Asia threaten its shipment routes and the supply with oil. Japan never threatened Americans at their homes and never prepared to land in San Francisco. Unnesessary to mention, that at the very first contact to an American ship Japanes politely refused any contact and were then bombarded as a sign of a good will. In 1945, despite of Japanese will to surrender on terms (since February-March), US Goverment refused any talks and insisted an a termless capitulation. The followed extinction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki by nuclear bombing were absolutely unnecessary from military point of view and are untill now the most awfull examples of war crimes.

Point of Fact: The Japanese started the war in the Pacific (against the US) because the felt they had to in order to preserve their industrial resources, in specific oil and steel. Up until 1941, the US had been selling the Japanese oil and steel. During 1941, we suspended the sale of oil and scrap steel to the Japanese as a protest against their aggression in China. The Japanese, who were short of resources, felt that the only way of securing the strategic resources they needed was to both attack the Dutch East Indies (for oil and other resources) and to attack the US fleet at Pearl Harbor to prevent its intervention in the East Indian attacks.
You state that the first ship sunk in the conflict between Japan and the US was Japanese. I would like to know where you got your information. I would also like to know how you account for the attack on the USS Panay in China on 12 December 1937?!!?
You further state that the Japanese were ready to surrender in February/ March 1945. If that is so, then how do you explain that in February and March of 1945 the Japanese were still putting up fierce resistance in the Phillipines and on Iwo Jima? This is not even to mention that the Invasion of Okinawa was still to take place (1 April 1945), and the Kamikazee attacks had not yet started. Furthermore, if the Japanese were so willing to surrender in Feb./ Mar. of 1945, why did they reject the "Potsdam Ultimatum" issued by the US, UK, and China on 25 July 1945 (Japanese rejection on 30 July 1945)??
The bombing of Hiroshoma and Nagasaki, in retrospect, may have been unnecessary. But then we have the luxury of hindsight. And, as they say, hindsight is always 20/20. In August 1945, Truman didn't have that luxury. He was told by the War Department that an invasion of Japan would result in around 1 million casulties for US forces. When faced by the prospect of a Japanese foe that, despite having its war making capacity devastated, was extremely reluctant to surrender, AND taking roughly 1 million casulties, Truman opted to drop the A-bomb. Was this a war crime? Perhaps in your eyes, but given the same set of circumstances, if I were the C-in-C, I'd have taken the nuclear option also.

- The war in Vietnam with millions of dead Vietnamese should be present to every American, but seems already forgotten. Any reparations were never paid.

That is simply because the Vietnamese never fulfilled their end of the Paris Peace Accords. The stipulation was made, and agree to by the Vietnamese, that the whereabouts of all American POWs and MIAs had to accounted for before any reparations would be paid. This accounting had to be done to the satifaction of the American government. It was never done and subsequently no reparations have been paid.

- The military putsch in Argentina (Pinochet) was supported by CIA as well as many similiar putsches in Africa, were beginning democracies were destroyed with american help due to financial and military interests of United States.

The putsch/coup you speak of actually took place in Chile, not Argentina. These coups were orchestrated by the CIA in accordance with the policy of containment. The policy of containment was very simple, to contain communism whenever and wherever it broke out. This policy is what (indirectly) led to US involvement in the Korean War, the Vietnam War, a myriad of "proxy wars", and the US support of the Mujaheddin(sp?) in Afghanistan in the 1980s. The policy of containment was also known as the "Truman Doctrine" after Harry Truman who first put it into practice.

Should I continue? The Taliban in Afghanistan with all their weapons and terroist training camps were supported by US-Goverment in the 80ties; Saddam Hussein and Oliver Noriega were best friends of US in former times. The sad truth is, that many of US goverments never cared a bit about democracy or freedom in the world. They were very often talking about this, but their ruled an the contrary.

As for the Taliban, see my previous comment. Yes, in the 1980s, Saddam Hussein was a "friend" of the US, but only because we had an active anti-Iranian policy at the time (due to the "Hostage Crisis" that had taken place in Tehran in 1979) As for Manuel Noriega (his name was Manuel, not Oliver), yes, at one point he was another "friend" of the US, but his drug importation business ran afoul of our anti-drug policies, and subsequently he was "arrested" (if you can call a full scale invasion an arrest!??!).

Now it might sound like I am picking on you, but I am not. I merely corrected a few inaccuracies that you had in you post, so don't getting all bent out of shape about it! As for this "ignorant" American, I have picked up a history book or two. As a matter of fact, I've picked up about four years worth (BA-History, U of Pittsburgh '97). And (if all goes well), in two or three years, I will probably be picking up at least two more years worth of history books (I'd really like to get my MA, no one takes you seriously with only a BA!).


To the moderator: I apologize for this OT post, but I just have a thing about historical inaccuracies. Sorry about that.

Yea sorry bud, the parallels between environmental protocols and murdering innocent people aren't as strong as you assert.

If its more nuanced to think that the United States is a simplistic, evil society while the EU is a modern day utopia then feel free to live the good live on the other side of the atlantic.

I didn't assert anything of the kind. If you actually read what I wrote you would have seen that I simply said that such simplistic worldviews are obviously wrong because they can be turned against anyone. If you say the US is good because it doesn't kill innocent people, then someone else can say the US is bad because it locks up people indefinitely without charging them or bringing them to trial, whilst apparently torturing them to gain information. Is the US good or bad? Obviously it's a mixture of both. I don't think that the US is simplistically evil or that the EU is simplistically good (although I do certainly think the EU is better - at least we don't execute people here like some kind of barbaric early medieval feudal society). Both of them are mixtures.

Now as I say there are plenty of threads in the OT forum where Americans and Europeans can happily slag each other off to their hearts' content, so let's take it there if it needs to be continued!

I'd really like to get my MA, no one takes you seriously with only a BA!).

Watch out though - it makes you massively less employable, as I've learned to my cost!

Watch out though - it makes you massively less employable, as I've learned to my cost!

How so? I mean how does have an MA make you less employable? I would think that all the avenues that were open to a person with a BA would be open to a person with an MA plus all of the "MA only" avenues.

US didn't declare war against axis and did just act a little in european theater????? I thought it was the US who declared war and didnt the US go into Normandie and even captured Berlin`?????????????

[Chuck2280] That's what I thought. In fact, employers don't like people with master's degrees - unless it's actually a requirement or is highly relevant to the job - because they think you're over-qualified and will be disappearing after a month to become a professor. Or something. They also wonder why you were messing about reading books when you should have been out getting a job like other keen people. In fact, of course, because everyone thinks this, you can't get a job and become pitifully grateful for anything! At least, in my experience. I'm afraid to say that unless you have a specific purpose in mind for a postgraduate degree then it's generally counter-productive to have one, at least from a career point of view. Potential employers look at your CV for relevant stuff, and anything that doesn't look relevant, or where it looks like you weren't doing anything useful, is not just disregarded but is an actual black mark against you ("He did *what*? What kind of wierd nutcase is this?"). And in our increasingly materialistic and ambitious world, it seems that education is regarded only as a means to an end - the end being career and money; and education undertaken for any other purpose is regarded as a waste of time that reflects poorly on you.

At least, that's how it seems in some quarters. If you're in America perhaps it's a tad different. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do an MA - just be aware that, from the point at which you finish university, *anything* you do is essentially seen as a kind of career choice, and any choice you make will inevitably turn you one way and cut off other possibilities.

I thought it was the US who declared war and didnt the US go into Normandie and even captured Berlin`?????????????

Good God! Such ignorance about fairly elementary historical facts! Of course the US didn't declare war on the Axis powers in WW2 - it was Hitler who, in one of his bigger and more incomprehensible gaffes, declared war on America! And America didn't capture Berlin - the Soviet Union did! A fairly elementary Google search turns up this, for example - http://history1900s.about.com/library/prm/blrfallofberlin1945.htm

Sounds like one of those Hollywood rewritings of history, where America crack the Enigma code, get the first man into space, invent the compass and build the Pyramids. Or something.

^that what I've learn in school, I'm 14

right, that with Berlin was wrong but US captured Germany with the allieds..

Plotinus: Thanks for the advice. I will definitely keep it in mind. And things are not too much different here in the US. A history degree pretty much entitles a person to say "Would you like fries with that?" on a daily basis or you can go into teaching. The problem with teaching is that it is a fairly low paying job. To give you an idea of how low paying, let's just say that right now I drive a truck and I make more money than I would if I were teaching at the high school level. My ultimate goal with an MA is to teach at the university level. At least at the university level the pay isn't too bad (it still isn't great), and most of the students who take a course take it because they have an interest in it (unlike high schoolers who are there because they have to be). (The last statement also excepts college freshmen fulfilling the required course load.)

Finlandiaciv: It is indeed a fact that the US did not declare war on the Axis in Europe until AFTER the Axis declared war on the US.
What I mean is that on 11 December 1941, both Germany and Italy declared war on the US. In a speech before the Reichstag (the people, not the building), Hitler cited Roosevelt's anti-German policies and Germany's obligations under the Tri-Partite Pact as the reasons for the declaration of war (Italy followed suit a few hours later). (The Tri-Partite Pact was the alliance of Germany, Italy, and Japan.) The US was left with no option but to then declare war on Germany and Italy as once a country declares war on you, you only have two options, surrender or fight.

On the Berlin item, Plotinus is correct. The Soviets captured Berlin not the US. The US or UK could have captured the city, but under the terms of the agreements made during the various allied conferences (specifically Casablanca, Tehran, and Yalta), Berlin was to be a Soviet prize, not a US or UK prize. This was done for two reasons, the first was to "reward" the Soviet Union for having endured so much bloodshed, and the second was to appease Stalin who asserted that the US and UK could have given the Soviets more aid early in the war and that they (the US and UK) could have opened a second front earlier than they did. (It seems that old Joe didn't want to recognize that the real reason the Germans almost captured Moscow was a German superiority in terms of both men [exp. level] and equipment early on, and Stalin's purge of his army's officer corps.) The conferences also determined that the Soviets, British, French, and Americans would each have a zone of control in post-war Germany that would include a section of Berlin for each. The French, British, and American sections of Germany later became West Germany, just as their sections of Berlin became West Berlin. The Soviet zone of occupation subsequently became East Germany and East Berlin.
If you are looking for how far the western Allies (US, UK and France) had advanced into Germany by the time of the Nazi surrender, find the Elbe River and follow it. The Elbe and Mulde Rivers were supposed to be the agreed line of contact between the western Allies and the Soviet Red Army. In some places the western Allies had gone further than the Elbe, but generally they had gone to the Elbe, stopped, and waited for the Soviets to show up. The Soviets obligingly did so with the first contact between the western Allied armies and Soviet Red Army coming on 25 April 1945 near the town of Torgau (northeast of Leipzig).
If you want to know what parts of Germany the US captured, draw a line from Brussels to Berlin, pretty much everything south of that line (and west of the Elbe River) was captured by the US including parts of Czechoslovakia and Austria. Nearly everything north of that line (and west of the Elbe River) was captured by the British.
I hope this answers your questions, Finlandiaciv.

I wonder if we're ever going to get to play the scenario........

The putsch/coup you speak of actually took place in Chile, not Argentina.


Hi Chuck2280, thank you very much for correction of my posting.

I've learned from your text some interesting details on the topics I've mentioned in my post, and also that it was VERY stupid from me to post an artikel without having accurate historical facts on my hand. Especially, the mistake with Chile/Argentina can not be excused! I am very sorry and promise to argue better next time.

Still, I strongly disagree with you on the point of Vietnam and do not think the arguments you bring as explanation of terrorist supporting are agreeable.

Newertheless, it was a great pleasure for me to read your article, and it is refreshening for me to have contact to thinking and educated people. I'm just a chemistry student and my knowledges of human history lack profundity, ineed. ;-)

I hope one day the scenario will be ready to use (with a diplomatic option and good weapons also for the EU!!!). What about really effective "propaganda" values in the scenario? :-)

Muffins....you aren't European...your British, you've got your own Commonwealth....so who cares about the French-led EU :p

Besides, many Americans(Myself included) admire and respect Britain and its excellent Prime Minister, plus we still use your Imperial System of measurement you gave us.....
So, I assume you hate british for have left you the pointless complicated "imperial system" abd having commited so many crimes against the US like the ones that figure in the US Declaration of Independence?!? I know Tony Blair is a quite good diplomat, but I don't think even he can clean all history in just a few years... :p ;)

:lol: Napoleon is not dead !! I didn't know that Europe was french !! Very good news !!! :lol:

indeed the eu is led by france and germany. and well, i really like the french and the germans and i hate the us-imperialism.

Hello Sword of Geddon ! I know that it's a [offtopic] but I can't resist to answer you a last time ... USA were , if I good remember, different states which allied themselves together... Some states were french like ... Louisiane.. It's the same for France , I live in south of France and this area was not french 500 years ago ... Same for Germany... Italy ... United Kindom ..etc .. This is the walk of history that little states ally and become bigger ...Personnally I believe in the future global human Union .. It's the only way for us to survive and to turn ourself to a new target : the Space ...
I'm tired of all our wars, we are all humans, no ?

I prefer to fight against Orcs ... ;)

( This mail doesn't cancel my previous mail about the actual war :ar15: )

WORD!

europe should stick together. i also believe in the future of the european union.
and well, i think one big step forward was, when schroeder and chirac said, that they definetly won't support war against iraq.

US didn't declare war against axis and did just act a little in european theater????? I thought it was the US who declared war and didnt the US go into Normandie and even captured Berlin`?????????????

berlin was captured by the udssr and not by usa, ok?

Umm...Kweli, why did you bump an old thread simply to comment on politics?

Umm...Kweli, why did you bump an old thread simply to comment on politics?

sorry for that omega, i am new here. and i've seen this topic. i thought whats going on here a mod against nowaday eu.:)

and i also don't want to provocate with my pots.

sorry 4 all!


p e a c e

Hello everyone. I have been reading these posts and it is great to know that people in this world still actually think!! (I had written off [...]
Well after a long long reading on your debate, i have to say this guy is the only one who really have the (real) good point.
My opinion ...
http://www.thebulletin.org/article_nn.php?art_ofn=so03norris

:lol: Let's bombard them...
:eek: THEY GOT WEAPON OF MASSES DESTRUCTION !!! :eek:
o wait !!! it's the united states on top of the list... ;) :lol:

Keep playing civilization guys cause it's the only thing we can really control in this world and to be realist, the end is coming soon and it's not our fault.

Have a nice war and try to be nice with your ennemy cause maybe it's gonna be you the next time !

US didn't declare war against axis and did just act a little in european theater????? I thought it was the US who declared war and didnt the US go into Normandie and even captured Berlin`?????????????
Well let's make this clear... ask people from Normandie who save them... who was the VERY FIRST soldier to walk on their LAND ??? Those people were talking FRENCH :eek: (none of american people could talk french during the second WW) They had a flag Red and White on the left harm (american flag is Blue-White-Red) and they were the little brother of people from France... (USA are Britain's little brother)... also they were with the "Polonais" too... thanks to them for helping us too.
If you know the real story about Normandie then you know it was Canada and Pologne but... american people claim they save normandie but it's not the real story cause USA can tell what they want and everyone in the USA will think it's the real thing. My grand-Father was one of the first to walk in Normandie with some other guys for Pologne (they survive !!!) he told me people from Normandie was very happy to see Soldier from Canada and Pologne talking french... Most of american came by air, not by sea... they were too scary to get the beach, so our people did it and after usa secure the beach.
Yes USA did save France but... not he way they claim to !
Read the real story from France and stop reading CNN news, it's all BS !

no offense to the USA, you guys are cool, but god damnit open your eyes and stop claiming your the best on earth, cause we no now (in 2005) it's not the fact.

We aren't the best, but we are one of the best... ;)

Iboltscrew,
First, thank you for the compliment in your earlier post. I am glad someone agrees with a few of my screwy ideas. :)
Second, I have a minor dispute with a few things in your latest post. While I cannot dispute the presence of Canadians during the D-Day invasions, nor can I dispute the recollections of your grandfather, I can dispute your assertions that most of the American forces arrived by air and that the beaches were secured by Canadian troops long before the amphibious portion of the invasion began.
A simple look at the invading units would tell you that only three of the divisions (out of 9 total) were airbourne. Those units were the 6th British Airbourne Division, the 82nd Airbourne Division, and the 101st Airbourne Division. The 6th British Airbourne landed near Caen, the 82nd Airbourne landed near Ste. Mere-Eglise, and the 101st Airbourne landed between Ste. Mere-Eglise and Carentan. A quick look at the map of the invasion beaches show that the American beaches of Omaha and Utah were closer to the 82nd and 101st's areas of responsibilty. That same look would show that the British and Canadian beaches of Gold, Sword and Juno were closer to the 6th's drop area.
A further look at the list of invading units would show that Americans landed three divisions (the 1st, 4th, and 29th Infantry Divisions), the British landed 2 divisions (the 3rd and 50th Infantry Divisions), and the Canadians landed 1 division (the 3rd Canadian Infantry Division, not to be confused with the 3rd British Inf. Div.).
Now, given that 5 American infantry/airbourne divisions were involved in the invasion and two of those divisions arrived by air, that leaves three divisions that arrived via the sea. Of the total forces involved (Br., Can., and US), the majority showed up on ships, NOT via the air.
Furthermore, your assertion about the beaches being secured before the US forces showed up would probably come as a surprise to the 9000 men killed or wounded on Omaha beach. The beaches were not secured by the airbourne. It simply wasn't their job to secure them. The airbourne (both Br. and US) were to secure the bridges in the immediate invasion area. The British for the most part did achieve this by the set deadline, but due to the scattering of the US drops, the US airbourne had some difficulty in achieve their objectives.
A careful study of the actual invasion and the units involved shows that your arguements do not hold up under scrutiny.

(I apologize to anyone who reads this for the "sketchiness" of the info, but it is late, I am tired, and I am not going to write a complete history of D-Day! Sorry about that. :sad: )

Iboltscrew,
First, thank you for the compliment in your earlier post. I am glad someone agrees with a few of my screwy ideas. :)
Second, I have a minor dispute with a few things in your latest post. While I cannot dispute the presence of Canadians during the D-Day invasions, nor can I dispute the recollections of your grandfather, I can dispute your assertions that most of the American forces arrived by air...
You are right about that, i'm talking about little regiment from canada the first day, first landing, first very crucial hour of D-Day.
Also, i'm trying to let american know there was other people on that beach the D-Day and the first soldier to walk on the Normandie beach wasn't american at all :lol: That was my people, the french-canadian and no one can say anything about it :rolleyes: . About 1600 French-Canadian died the first day and about 1200 survive. I'm just sick of hearing the USA trying to get all the reward for thing they had never done. For exemple, ask any american and most of them think Canada wasn't even there at the WW1 and WW2. But le me know soemthing guys... Canada is a Independante country by now and it's not because of our beautifull eye. We did our best and we prove during the WW1 and WW2 that we can defend ourself and most important, we can and we DO help our friend when they need us. If anyone want to talk about the decision of not going at war against Irak with the USA, i'll be happy to tell you WHY. :lol: There is no way we could help the Bush Administration against Saddam Hussein, it's a family thing (Bush Father hate Saddam, Bush son trying to finish the job... They want the oil in the country but can't attack for that reason... They claim he got WMD... well you know! it's a familiy thing, not a national security thing like they claim.)
They aren't very good in history cause the american government is doing a good job with the propaganda.

Canadians get very little recognition (outside of Canada) for our contributions to the world wars. Our soldiers are almost never mentioned in American war movies, for example. This, of course, is fairly trivial, but it is annoying. After all, we made no small contribution; we were used as cannon fodder by the British throughout the first world war, and served effectively as shocktroops during the last hundred days (nearly one in every ten Canadian males were sent to the trenches of the western front, and our flying aces were considered to be among the best in the empire). We were involved in world war II from the day Hitler invaded Poland, and by the time it was over, we had something like the world's third largest airforce, fourth largest army and fifth largest navy. We fought at Dieppe, Normandy and throughout Italy; the majority of the troops who drove the Nazis from the Netherlands were Canadians. In fact, Canada's industiral base was initially only built-up in order to mass produce weapons and military hardware. In Korea, a Canadian army at Kapyong managed to defeat a Chinese force many times its size.
The reason that I'm mentioning all of these things is this; when you lose more than a hundred thousand soldiers and not one of them (presumably for propaganda reasons) even merits an historical footnote.

BTW: Sword Of Geddon: You're right. America is one of the best nations in the world.
(of course, I still like Canada better ;) )

"If you're in America perhaps it's a tad different."

Plotinus, it might be profitable, in every sense of the word, for you to investigate the nature of that tad. Although you would need to be prepared to reevaluate your statement regarding EU superiority if you do...

:)

There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy. Mine too, for that matter. :mischief:

Iboltscrew,
Wow, you guys are independent?? When did that happen?? (Just kidding).
No one is disputing the contributions Canada made to the war efforts (WW1 or WW2). My contention was merely with the assertion that most American forces arrived by air.
Also, it was more than a little regiment that landed, it was a whole division (the 3rd Canadian Infantry Division). While I am an American, and I am proud of the efforts of my country during WW2, it might be worthy to note that of all the infantry divisions landed at Normandy (US, BR, or CAN), the 3rd Canadian made the deepest penetration of any landed (not air dropped) division on the first day! (Believe it or not, Canadian participation was actually questioned by the planning staff due to the utter destruction of the 2nd Canadian Inf. Div. at Dieppe a few years earlier!)

BTW, and this is completely unrelated to the whole D-Day discusssion, what year do you (Canada) consider to be your year of independence? Is is 1867 or is it after WW1 (sometime in the 1920's, if memory serves me correctly)? I am a little confused on the issue due to the fact that, if I recall correctly, Canadian forces were part of the regular British army in WW1.

Answer about the timeline for the indepdance of Canada :
We have just celebrate our 40th years on independance... Not bad at all... we still have a couple hundred years before our nation collapse in corruption... LOL

40 years? What do you mean?
Confederation was 137 years ago. The Statute of Westminster was 75 years ago and the constitution was repatriated 23 years ago. We got our current flag 40 years ago.
Or are you thinking of the recent 400th anniversary of Samuel du Champlain's exstablishment of the first permanent European settlements on Canadian soil?

Oy vey! All of those dates just to determine independence from GB/UK?!! Why couldn't you guys make it simple and have a few revolting colonists like here in the states? (All puns intended). :)

Oy vey! All of those dates just to determine independence from GB/UK?!! Why couldn't you guys make it simple and have a few revolting colonists like here in the states? (All puns intended). :)

Well, I thought about it. But it would be a little redundant to try to overthrow the British government of Canada now, wouldn't it?

Might give this one a try. Is it based on a novel or something, or what gave you the odd idea?

"(Bush Father hate Saddam, Bush son trying to finish the job... They want the oil in the country but can't attack for that reason... They claim he got WMD... well you know! it's a familiy thing, not a national security thing like they claim.)"

Whoa, might want to lay off the wacky tabaccy there chief. I know its tough trying to process three different issues at the same time an all, but that's the most ridiculous assertion I've heard in awhile.

Dang, this is one messed-up GAME forum...

"(Bush Father hate Saddam, Bush son trying to finish the job... They want the oil in the country but can't attack for that reason... They claim he got WMD... well you know! it's a familiy thing, not a national security thing like they claim.)"

Whoa, might want to lay off the wacky tabaccy there chief. I know its tough trying to process three different issues at the same time an all, but that's the most ridiculous assertion I've heard in awhile.

So where are the WMDs then?

Oh, forgot, theyre in Syria and Iran now, wonder where theyll move when those countries are occupied too :) .

Perhaps Sweden :lol:

uhm....did i miss a download link or two?
yea, I don't see any download link here...
btw, EU is built for peace, right? I think it'd be "War Against the USA" instead, they are more powerful, more agressive than the EU.

Yeah, but I think this thread was made by an anti-European American. Still, a download would be nice.

Ouch ! It will be difficult for EU to resist...
One of my friends said me 5 years ago that he went in US and a student said him that he thought France wasn't entirely electrified... so B2 against Musketteers... Hope we'll have an army of Musketteers in a fortress-barricades on a mountain to resist to US in this Mod !

Be carefull ! It's time for us having our Golden Age !

EDIT: I realize this is off topic, but tried to keep it somewhat related to CIV anyway :P Plus i think it is an interesting perspective to imagine what you would do in CIV given the current situation would happen in one of your games.

----

So where are the WMDs then?

Oh, forgot, theyre in Syria and Iran now, wonder where theyll move when those countries are occupied too :) .

The idea of this mod made me think about the current world politics / economic situation from the CIV standpoint.

"I'm playing as the USA, being a major military / scientific power, controlling the continent. Other countries occupy asia / africa / europe, with the european countries allied and having mutual prot agreements signed.

One turn, my oil source runs out, and the Arabs / Ottomans refuse to trade their excess oil for my burgers.

---

Reloaded a few turns earlier, and started an invasion against them (they had no real military to speak of), so i was able to secure a few more oil sources by the time my original one ran out.

I was able to convince the Europeans - and my own people -, that this war was made necessary by the ever increasing terro *cough* barbarian activity on my continent, so war weariness was manageable.

While i was at war, the european countries continued to develop their economy. Looking at how much they have, and how fast they advance i soon realized, that unless i act, they'll take the lead farily quickly.

The next logical step, given i want to win this game, is to take the europeans while i can, before they outresearch / outproduce me."

----

Conclusions

1) If the USA intends to keep its leading position, he has to act actively against the EU soon. Otherwise EU will take over. Thats the next logical step for winning the 'big' game.

10) Luckily, life is a bit more complicated than CIV, so the above decision is not that easy to make

11) Sadly, Bush is warmongering enough to still decl. war just to keep on fighting.

Those who believe, that wars can be fought over abstract 'terms' like terrorism, obviously have no clue about how human mentality works. Soldiers do fight for causes, leaders do create/fabricate causes to make the soldiers fight for resources.

Who knows how many million US citizens France killed during the last 50 years? I bet the US Intelligence keeps a few documents on the French genocide / world domination plans, just in case they need it. (Obviously France never did/does that, but in light of recent events: who cares? A document is reason enough for fighting. If its not true, then they can still apologies when the fighting is finished.)

I can do nothing else but quote from one of my favorite intro videos:

"War.
War never changes.
The Romans waged war to gather slaves and wealth.
Spain built an empire from its lust for gold and territory.
Hitler shaped a battered Germany into an economic superpower.
But war never changes.
In the 21st century, war was still waged over the resources that could be acquired.
Only this time, the spoils of war were also its weapons.
Petroleum and uranium.
For these resources, China would invade Alaska, the US would annex Canada, and the European Commonwealth would dissolve into quarreling, bickering nation-states, bent on controlling the last remaining resources on Earth.
In 20??**, the storm of world war had come again.
In two brief hours, most of the planet was reduced to cinders.
And from the ashes of nuclear devastation, a new civilization would struggle to arise."

** The intro had '2077', but i wouldn't be suprised, if we would see a massive, world-wide conflict well before that...

As much as i would love to see a united earth, the future suggested by that quote above is much more likely to happen. I just hope i do not live long enough to find out.

----
BTW: This being my first post, lemme say hello to this great community.
(There are 10 types of people. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.)

Eu and all eu nations should be eliminated off, useless scum u are

Eu and all eu nations should be eliminated off, useless scum u are

That was a totaly inapropreat comment,
First: You bumped an old mod for no reason whatso-ever then to arous a response
Second: That is trolling, if you have an agrument against teh EU say so in a polite manner without sounding like a jerk

I am reporting it.

WHy don't people quit the political squabbling and actually post a link of some sort?

And, as a Brit, I say that the EU is good, and all this 'It's a front for the French Empire' stuff is just silly. The French dislike the EU as much as most Brits- for the same reasons. They don't want to get stuck in some sort of British-dominated federation, partly because they, unlike Britain itself, have realised that we seem to exist as a sort of secret 51st state.

Why is this even here?
It should be in main forum.

This is an iteresting scenario, albeit innacurate. The EU (save for UK, you guys are pretty cool) doesn't have the balls to declare war anymore, much less take over the world. We saw this in Iraq and Afganistan. Nonetheless, i like the idea behind this. I really like the terrain too, kinda lends itslf to a StarWars mod, no? Hey, that'd be cool. Someone should make a Star Wars mod. Sorry about the political jabbering.

I got another question, since i was reading the previous thread pages.
Is Canada completely independent of UK? Because I thought that Australia was independent, but then i found out their head of state is actually Elizabeth II! It purely a figurehead-thing, thanks to constitutional monarchy, but is it the same story for Canada as well? How about New Zealand?
Also, I think that some things about June 6, 1944 need to be cleared up. And I will write a book on this, so set it to rest once and for all.
In the beginning...
The United States was not the only country to hit the beaches on 6 June. Troops from Britain, Canada and, Poland hit the beaches early that morning. The Americans hit the cliff walls of Omaha beach and Utah beach, while the British, Canadian, and Polish forces hit Sword, Juno, and Gold beaches, which were more flat, but just as heavily defended. Omaha, despite what some people will say, WAS the hardest fight that day. The americans encountered several problems. First, they didnt have the luxury of walking onto the beach. It was a cliff face, with some narrow (in comparision to the other beaches) stretches of sand. The Rangers sent in to take out the artillery batteries didnt take otu very many of them, because they were found out. The airborne landings behind the beaches didnt capture the bridges they needed to in order to stall the nazi's response to the invasion. THe single biggest problem was that the americans had no tank support. It was almost completely infantry on the beaches.
The British, etc. had their own set of problems.
First, Gold and Sword beacheswer closer to Calais, where the nazis originally believed the allies would land, so response was faster. The nazis also had a dangerous weapon called the Nebelwerfer 41, basically a rocket launcher that they would bury in the ground. This is really cool, so Ill explain it. The neberwerfer was put into a large hole in the ground,deep enough to house the entire battery. Then, a long ramp like trench was cut facing towards the beaches, creating an area where the batterty could fire. So, the rockets, which made a horrible, high piched whine, could bombard the troops moving inland, while you could not see where the nebelwerfer was unless you saw it fire, or were looking down the trench-thing, becuase the hole was so deep. Nasty, stuff, eh?
The bocage (thick 800 year old hedgerows) that the americans encoutered farther inland from omaha and utah went right up to the beach at sword and gold beaches. Also, the british had a problem with the landing craft as well, but it delayed the delivery of fuel, not armor, to the beaches, but this was after the fact, and because a storm destroyed their makeshift piers. However, once the makeshift port was up and running, it worked so well that the allies were not hard pressed to capture antwerp right away as the nazias had hoped, thats why they fortified antwerp so.
The canadians worked well with the other allied forces, but their moment to shine came at the push to Falaise, Ecouché, then Argentan.
Oh crap i almost forgot.
Juno beach really sucked for the canadians. It was closer to the american beaches, and thus had characteristics of both utah and gold beaches. Their objective was the city of Caen. The reason it was harder for the canadians is that they were not battle hardened vets like the americans or brits from N africa and italy/sicily. THe canadians did good, though, and, with american help (they had busted through the axis once onshore at utah and messed up some nazis), captured Caen, and thus secured the allied presence in NOrmandy.The biggest problem for Juno beach was that the canadians had to hit the beaches 1/2 hour after the others, since the tide wasnt hight enough at the time to get the LCVPs over the rocks( remember the disaster at Tarawa?). Falaise, as I was saying earlier, was the site of the destruction of the elite seventh and fifth panzer divisions. As we all know, two divisionsequal; one army, so an elite panzer army of 150 000 men was crushed between the Canadians, the French, and the americans.
I could go on like this for hours, im a history major :)
Sorry if i bored anyone, but i just needed to set this straight.
Every man fought hard inWWII for what he believed in, and I have the utmost respect for every many who put his life on the line, and those who gave theirs lives so we can have the ones we do today.
Men and women of the armed forces past and present, I salute you.

I realy like reading this kind of discussions but I would also like to play the game, so please can ANYONE post a LINK

chinese is one of the hard ones?! but they're one of the powerful nations on this world >:[

Aznmoneyass, please stop bumping 1-3 year old topics.