EDIT2:
BTW, I wouldn't mind if you do a few turns more than five, if you find the time before your vacation. Maybe you could put me in the position to put this game to rest.
I'm impressed by your optimism :hmm: Well, I'll see how far I can get, but time's running short.

Another small point for Alan. I found a cav in our furs colony. This could already move to the Japanese city, before hitting enter. Or do some other useful things.Yes, I found him and sent him to Hakodate. He found a barb horse standing outside the city, killed a 3/3 rifle, lost 3 HP and moved to the coast. Stupid! He was then bombarded down to 1 HP by an ironclad in the interturn!


Another point, you could sacrifice some healing cavs with full movement to pillage Indias saltpeter already, it doesn't really matter if the counterattacks hit on this tile or some other.
Being on saltpeter this has the nice effect that we could redo the road later by just using one worker for a colony.
There are 3 cavs and a cannon in Curia. They are not needed there. If somebody should capture the town that's even better than a counterattack on a healing cav. Also the cannon should either be disbanded or serve as bait.
The cavs with the workers could do some reconnaissance, before returning to guard.Good point - missed these, but I'll bear them in mind.

BTW, I saw your AA spoiler for GOTM 34. Looks like this could be your best GOTM result, if you stayed on a nice warmongering course. Though I don't think you will beat my result ;) .I'd finished my game before I posted the first spoiler, and I looked at the submissions as soon as I'd finished. We chose the same victory condition, but I suspect that's where any similarity between our games ends! :hmm:

I'm impressed by your optimism :hmm: Well, I'll see how far I can get, but time's running short.
Well, I don't really believe in it either, but one can try. ;)
At least I want to get to a position where the enemies are no real threat anymore and the rest is just cleaning up.
This may then still take some time after.

I can't believe I missed the cav at the fur colony. It just stood there for all my turns :(

I've played 6 turns now, I'll finish up the current turn and maybe one more, and I'll write it all up and post later.

To whet your appetite, here's the minimap at 1355 AD

Very good, Alan :goodjob:
Maybe we can finish by 1400AD after all?

Good progress Alan, looks like you've taken a nice bite out of the Japanese! :goodjob:

Just checked the submission page and Tean Sesn has finished in 1365 AD but I don't know the victory condition. I assume conquest because of the curve?

Just checked the submission page and Tean Sesn has finished in 1365 AD but I don't know the victory condition. I assume conquest because of the curve?
Team Sesn obviously lost. They didn't get a final bonus.
So they try to achieve the wooden spoon.

@Alan
looking very good.
If there are still some cavs left after your turns, we may have a chance for 1435 goal.
But there are still some PITAs around, like the rocky Indian peninsula, so don't everybody expect wonders.

Team Sesn obviously lost. They didn't get a final bonus.
So they try to achieve the wooden spoon.
Thanks for waking me up this morning. I should rub the goobers out of my eyes and :coffee: before I try to do any detail work first thing in the morning. :lol: :lol:

Sorry for my ignorance, but what are PITA's? :blush:

Pain In The Behinds? :lol:

Pain In The Behinds? :lol:
Thanks again, Capt.! A guy really get an education at this site. Here I was straining, looking at the mini-map Alan posted trying to make out what Klarius was talking about, and not seeing anything. :rolleyes: :crazyeye: :p

I think I'll go back to bed, sleep an hour or so, and then get up and start this day all over again. That's what I get for staying up late with GOTM 34! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I think I'll go back to bed, sleep an hour or so, and then get up and start this day all over again. That's what I get for staying up late with GOTM 34! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Ah, you've got JOMTOCSD? The well-known just-one-more-turn-of-civ-sleep-deprived syndrom :D

In fact, I just read the article about it linked from the homepage, in case you haven't been there yet. The article is so, so true!!

Wow good progress. I think this may be a very close run thing. Looking forward to the next installments.

smackster

Here we go! Red highlights are main city destruction. I've not highlighted rebuilds I destroyed.

Turn 255 1325 AD Preflight

MM - not much to do :goodjob: Capt.
Adjust Cumae shields, trading increased shields to Brundisium for a couple of turns at -1fpt

We need to upgrade a horse currently in Bagacum to defend against the German rifle threatening our gems and Byzantium. He needs to get to Gem City before upgrade to be within reach of the rifle, but will have no movement points left when he gets there. So we need a bulk upgrade (Shift-U). The minimum horses we can leave in cities is two the one we want to upgrade and one in Ravenna. We need 100 gold, so let's sell the family jewels! Sell 4 temples, 2 granaries, 2 harbours and 3 walls to raise 62 gold to add to our existing treasury of 38. A side benefit is an extra 9 gpt from reduced maintenance.

Japan has built Hakodate in the north west and we have a cavalry sitting in our fur colony keeping warm. Send him to Hakodate where he kills a 3/3 rifle, but there's another one in residence.

I decided to set up a ship chain to shorten the cavalry delivery pipeline. Move two caravels into Ravenna.

We have a redlined cavalry sitting on the Iroquois saltpetre he's pillaged. I can't see any safe haven for him, so fortify and hope!

IBT
Japanese ships bomb HPs off our cavs
Indian and Aztec cavs kill two cavs
India builds Delhi on the silk north of Augustodorum
Iroquois build Salamanca next to the saltpetre and a LB kills our redlined cav. At least they didn't settle on top of i!

German rifle moves to gems mountain as predicted by leif :thumbsup:
A German rifle retreats our cav near Leipzig. I should have attacked.
A barb horse dies on our army in the north west.

Horses are produced by 11 cities, and Syracuse completes its market.

Turn 256 1330 AD
We have 432 gold and 23 horses. Upgrade 8 horses. Join a worker to Brundisium - that looks like the plan.
Land 18 cavs in Azteca.

@ Tlacopan (Pop 9 on a hill):
13 cavs attack and kill 3 rifles and a LB. 4 cavs die, 5 retreat. Raze Tlacopan 7 workers disbanded.
In the open:
A cav from Curia kills a 2/4 Aztec cav.
A 3/5 cav kills a 4/4 Japanese cav, redlines.
Land settler and two cavs at the choke point and dyes.
2/4 cav pillages Indian dyes near Lahore, but they still have them. They built Lahore on top of dyes.
Move a big stack towards Karachi under a 10/18 army.
Pillage our saltpetre and switch production in 11 cities to horses.
Move our north west army to Hakodate gates.
Move cavs to cover a couple of gem mountains, and shift horses and legions north to reinforce.
Cav pillages German iron @ Berlin, but they still have a source :hmm:
And Japan has no iron now.
Disband cannon in Curia for 10 shields.
Move 10 horses towards Ravenna ready to upgrade.
Move some workers towards the old saltpetre colony. We'll try to set that up again.

IBT
Japanese cavs kill 2 cavs
Indians kill 2 cavs
Japan builds Ise in the north west.
German rifle attacks our cav near Leipzig and dies
German rifle pillages the gem mountain.
We learn about Physics, but can't really see how to apply our newfound wisdom to the job in hand :confused:

6 cavs and 10 horses ccomplete.

Turn 257 1335 AD
@ Karachi (Pop 11, plains):
7 cavs kill 4 rifles and a LB. 2 retreat, no losses. Karachi razed for 50 gold, 5 workers disbanded.

@ Hakodate:
Cav army kills 3/3 rifle and razes city for 6 gold. Moves on to Ise.

Move stacks north in Azteca.

Transport two workers from MiddleLand to the mainland to help with the saltpetre project. Can't see that they have anything else to do.
Connect the saltpetre and upgrade 10 horses in avenna. We'll have 13 to ship next turn. Switch 6 high production cities to cavalry. Leave the saltpetre road between turns for the extra gold.

IBT
2 Japanese cavs kill cavs.
2 Indian cavs die, one kills a cav.
1 Iroquois cav dies
German rifle moves next to a second gem mountain.
A barb warrior dies.

8 horses complete.

Turn 258 1340 AD

@ Bangalore (Pop 11, plains)
At least 12 cavs attacked - I lost count! Killed 3 rifles with maybe 8 losses. Thanks RNG. I suspect the last 3/3 rifle was Arnold Schwarzenegger's Bollywood opposite number. He promoted to elite and took 5 or 6 cavs down before surrendering. :eek:
I had to send the covering army in to finish the job, and Bangalore was razed for 65 gold, 5 workers disbanded.

@ Madras (Pop 6, hills)
2 cavs attacked. One died, one retreated. This was not my favorite turn!

In the open, 3 cavs kill 2 Japanese cavs with one loss.

@ Ise (Japanese rebuild in north west):
Cav army loses 2 hp kills vet rifle razes city for 3 gold.

Built New Rome in the choke point connecting dyes.
Moved troops north under army cover. Cav takes barb camp for 25 gold.

Upgrade 10 horses, ship chain 9 cavs to Aztca. 5 left behind as we set up the chain.

Move some excess horses north to scout the wasteland.
Pillage the German furs at Berlin. He now has no lux. He's still a Republic :hmm:

IBT
2 Japanese cavs attack. One kills a cav, one dies.
Indian LB kills a cav
Aztec LB dies.
Japan builds Hakodate again in the north west! Honestly! Some people will just not listen!
German rifle pillages second gems.
German galleon spotted in the Aegean sea.
9 horses completed
Our gardeners plant trees in front of the Palace to commemorate the dead of the Bangalore campaign. We also get a second floor on the Palace west wing to get a better view of the carnage to the west.

Turn 259 1345 AD
The Indian culture border is getting in our way. Madras has to go!
@Madras (Pop 6, hills):
5 cavs kill 3 rifles and a LB. One retreat, no losses. That's much better!Madras razed for 43 gold and workers disbanded.

Now we have a clear path to the Japanese border, complete with some shiny rails!

In the open:
6 cavs kill one Japanese cav, one Indian rifle, and 2 Indian LBs. One retreat, one loss.

In the north west:
Our army attacks Delhi on the silks north of Augustodorum. Kills one rifle, but has a bad time with a second and retreats redlined :blush:

Time to advance into Japan. We deliver a big stack of cavs, 3/4/5 HP under cover of an army, within strike range of Tokyo and Izumo.

@ Hakodate, Japan's latest foothold in the far north west, 2 cavs attack. One dies, one kills redlined rifle and razes the city.

Deliver 12 cavs to Azteca. Move one stack of 9 west towards the Iroquois/Aztec remnants.
Pillage saltpetre and upgrade 10 horses. 2 workers start work on the saltpetre colony road.

IBT
Naval bombardment knocks hit points off cavs.
Japanese cav kills a cav
Japanese cav dies
Aztecs land a cav and a LB somewhere.
German rifle descends from mountains having been baulked. Probably tempted by an unoccupied city.
7 horses produced. Aesonesium completes a worker.

Turn 260 1350 AD
@ Tokyo (Pop 12, grassland):
11 cavs kill 3 rifles and a LB. 5 losses, 2 retreats. Tokyo razed, 7 workers disbanded.

@ Izumo (Pop 12, grasssland):
10 cavs kill 3 rifles with 2 losses, 4 retreats. Izumo razed 5 workers disbanded.

In the open 7 cavs kill 5 Japanese cav. Two losses.
German pillager is killed by two cavs, no losses.
2 cavs kill Aztec cav and LB. I think they landed near Lauriacum.

Move cav stack towards Kyoto, capturing and disbanding 2 workers on the way.
Move some cavs west in India. That area is going to take time to clear., so we'd better get started.

Upgrade 9 horses, ship 9 cavs to Azteca.

That was my five, but Klarius suggested I play a few more before my vacation. Can't refuse an offer like that :thanx:

IBT
More Japanese bombardment vs our cav stack moving west in India. No cavs though. They're hurtin'
Iroquois cav kills one cav, Aztecs kill one cav.
German galleon lands one rifle on MiddleLand.
8 horses complete.

Turn 261 1355 AD
On open ground west of Curia 2 cavs kill Iroquois cav and LB.

Near Tula, 3/4 cav kills Aztec cav.

@ Tula (Pop 9, grass):
7 cavs kill 2 rifles. 3 losses, 2 retreat. Still a 1/3 rifle defending and we can't reach him ... yet!

@ Texcoco (Pop9, grass):
7 cavs kill 4 rifles. 2 losses, 1 retreat. Texcoco razed

Now a cav from the Texcoco stack can reach Tula and kills the 1/3 rifle there. Tula razed, 3 workers disbanded.

@ Delhi in the north west, one cav dies and one retreats leaving the rifle at 1/3. Thi sis proving a tough nut.

@ Kyoto (Pop 12, grass):
9 cavs kill 5 rifles with 4 losses and 1 retreat. Kyoto razed, 5 workers and a cat disbanded.

Our stack can now reach Edo.

@ Edo (Pop 9, grass):
4 cavs kill 2 rifles, 1 loss, 1 retreat. Edo razed, several ships scuttled and 4 workers disbanded.

SW of Ivor The Engine a cav takes 25 gold from a barb camp. We also kill an Iroquois musket enar New Rome,and an Indian LB near Lahore.

The Germans landed a single rifle in Middle Land. He's dispatched by a cav, and we find another 25 gold stashed in a barb camp.

Upgrade 10 horses and complete the road to the saltpetre colony. 6 workers and a horse convene on the hill tile ready to do the pillage/build cycles.

IBT
A Japanese cav kills a cav
An Iroquois rifle dies
An Iroquois cav kills a cav
7 cavs complete, 9 horses complete.

Turn 262 1360 AD

@ Delhi a cav kills a rifle. There's another!
South of New Rome a cav kills a settler/spear pair.

@ Hamburg: 5/5 cav kills 3/3 rifle and razes Hamburg for 6 gold. I can't remember if this is a rebuild.

Pillage the Pisae saltpetre and start building a mine with the old road workers.
Upgrade 9 horses using the new saltpetre

@ Nova (Pop 10, grass):
6 cavs kill 3 rifles. 1 lost, 2 retreat. Raze Nova, sink ships, disband 4 workers.

Move stacks to threaten Oil Springs, Niagara Falls, Jaipur, Osaka, Leipzig.

Pillage saltpetre colony road, adjust some cav builds to horses. Deliver 8 cavs to Azteca.
India and Japan are now Communists. Iroquois is still Democratic and Germany is still a Republic.

IBT
Japanese navy bombs our dyes supply :(
Japanese cav kills cav, Iroquois LB kills cav, German LB kills cav.
WLTKD ends in several cities becase they can't change the color of their clothing! Fickle!
8 horses and a cav complete.

Turn 263 1365 AD

@ Osaka (Pop 10, grass):
Army kills Japanese cavalry getting in the way.
10 cav kill 4 rifles. 2 losses, 4 retreats. Raze Osaka, disband 6 workers

@ Jaipur (Pop10, grass):
10 cav kill 4 rifles. 3 losses, 3 retreats. Raze Jaipur

@ Lahore (Pop 2, grass):
3 cav kill 3 rifles. Raze Lahore for 44 gold

@ Delhi we finally kill the last rifle and raze the city.

North of New Rome 2 cav die vs rifle in jungle.
I spaced through the two workers and then remembered I was supposed to reconnect the dyes :(

@ Oil Springs (Pop 8, plains):
6 cav kill 4 rifles with 2 losses. Raze Oil Springs for 3 gold and destroy Shakespeare's Theatre. Who needs the English language? They should all speak Latin and read the great works of Caesar!

@ Niagara Falls (Pop 1, plains)
3 4/4 cav attack. 2 retreat, one dies. We're out of attackers. They have a 1/4 defender.

@ Tonawanda (Pop 6, grass):
3 cav kill a rifle, a spear and a redlined cav. No losses. Raze Tonawanda for 2 gold

In the open, a 4/4 cav kills an Iroquois LB and promotes to 5/5.

Build the saltpetre colony road, upgrade 5 horses. Pillage Japanese ivory with a couple of redlined cavs.

After action report
We probably need to finish this in the next 5 to 10 turns to stand a chance of the laurels. I think this is achievable with some smart route planning and careful positioning of all our 2/3/4/5 hit point troops.

Despite my worst efforts and the wholesale destruction of 16 major cities, we still have 150 cavalry. The AI are gassed, and it's now mainly a logistical problem to get fit troops to their remaining cities in sufficient numbers to put them out of their misery as fast as possible. We have 150 cavalry still at large, and only about 30 AI cities left. We can lose 5 cavs per city - much more than I was on average - and we are still producing 8 or nine more per turn. We have troops in all the relevant locations, but not necessarily healthy yet, and maybe not in the right proportions for the remaining battles.

The problems left are the number of turns to heal the cavs I've injured, and the travel time to reach the inhospitable places where the AI cities are now. In prticular, India is holed up on a mountainous peninsula, and the Aztecs and Japanese are in the mountainous, forested tundra.

You may not have to wrestle with my ship chain, as I don't think we need to ship many more cavalry to the other continent. They'll have trouble reaching the fronts in the remaining time within one or two more turns. We should start diverting some to the rapid elimination of Germany.

The save is here (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Xteam_SG003_AD1365_01.SAV)

F3 says it all:

Good progress Alan, looks like you've taken a nice bite out of the Japanese! :goodjob: Well, that was on your shopping list as I recall :D

Just checked the submission page and Tean Sesn has finished in 1365 AD but I don't know the victory condition. I assume conquest because of the curve?

If you use the online Jason calculator for GOTM16 you can plug in the Firaxis score and date for a team and then check which victory condition gives the Jason score they've received. I'm not sure whether it works properly for a loss, I'll have to check it.

Nicely done, although it must have been tedious. Looks like I was wrong about infantry showing up in your turnset.

The worst thing that could happen to us now is having to track down a settler on a boat. Should we spend some cash on a navy and blanket the oceans? It could be very painful if that settler/boat is on the ocean between the middle continent and the Indian/Aztec/Japan/Iroquois continent

I thought ship chaining was not allowed in GOTM (or is that in the RBCiv rules?). It is an exploit in my opinion.

Looks like a solid piece of conquest tactics :goodjob: .
I will probably ponder today only about length of supply lines and number of cavs needed for every job (that will probably take already to after midnight here).
I already saw that it will take 8 turns to even reach the last indian city at the tip of the rocky peninsula.
If nobody objects I will try to close the game tomorrow in what it takes (hopefully 8 turns, but I will also invest 10 if necessary).

Just saw Adrians (cross)post.
The oceans are very big.
We can send out some of our ships in the end, but a lot of the sea is not even accessible. If we have bad luck with a ship settler we will probably have to wait till he settles. But that shouldn't take too long with all the empty land available.
We still have no better offensive navy options than the caravels already existing and need money for some more turns to upgrade some cavs for Germany. So magnetism could come earliest in 7-8 turns.
Ship chaining is allowed in GOTM, but I don't do it normally.
It's too tedious even for me and the gain is not much, if you are in a strong position already.

It didn't feel tedious, in fact it was one of those all-night JOMTOCSD experiences where dawn arrives to give a hint that p'raps you should have been in bed a while ago :D Yes, I was half-expecting an Infantryman to pop his head over the next Japanese city wall. Now that *would* have been interesting.:hmm:

Ship chaining bought me a quick surge of about 10 unit arrivals as I hit Japan. I think it made a difference, but probably only enough to offset my shortcomings in other areas. In view of the effort it takes to set up and operate a ship chain, I don't see it as an exploit, and neither does the GOTM rule set.

Given the speed with which the AI has been sending settlers to the wastelands I think we'll see any roaming monarch arrive on our cavalry's radar screen real soon. We don't need to scour the oceans.

Well, that was on your shopping list as I recall :D
Fine piece of razing!! :goodjob: As usual, you didn't disappoint. Now you can go off for a well earned vacation with a huge smile on your face. :eek: Have a great time and we'll see you rested and ready for the next one. :mischief:

I already saw that it will take 8 turns to even reach the last indian city at the tip of the rocky peninsula.
If nobody objects I will try to close the game tomorrow in what it takes (hopefully 8 turns, but I will also invest 10 if necessary).
No objections! ;) Good luck, close them out, and send them all to hell!! :king:

Cheers, guys. It's been fun, and I look forward to seeing how our result compares. Then it'll be onward and upward to the next one if mad-bax can be persuaded to stick with it.

I don't expect we'll know the final outcome when I return on 8th, so I'll be around again by the time we are exchanging congrats and commiserations. I may even sneak into an Internet cafe while I'm away, if I can work out how to use one in Italian, and see what the results page looks like.

Speaking of which, thanks for your comments, Smackster. If you're still lurking, I hope you realise you're one of the people responsible for encouraging my warmongering instincts and SG enthusiasm. Remember the Arabs SG based on GOTM 23?

May the best team win ;)

Speaking of which, thanks for your comments, Smackster. If you're still lurking, I hope you realise you're one of the people responsible for encouraging my warmongering instincts and SG enthusiasm. Remember the Arabs SG based on GOTM 23?

May the best team win ;)
Yes I'm still watching, its been very hard not to offer comment based on our experience, but I'll leave that for the spoiler, or when you finish. I've learned some stuff from your spoiler that I'm using in GOTM34, so it pays to lurk.

I certainly remember the Arabs, that was a great game, and a pretty good score if I remember.

Good luck

Smackster

Well, I didn't play up to now, but the analyses looks like we will not be able to pass Team Smackster. :cry: ;)
I looked up the best times again and its only 23 not 24 turns difference.
Also one has to raze the last city one turn before the finish date.
We have probably enough troops to finish every single of the left over edges in time, but not all in parallel.
Nevertheless I will try and with outrageous luck on RNG, I see a tiny chance.

Well, I didn't play up to now, but the analyses looks like we will not be able to pass Team Smackster. :cry: ;)
I looked up the best times again and its only 23 not 24 turns difference.
Also one has to raze the last city one turn before the finish date.
We have probably enough troops to finish every single of the left over edges in time, but not all in parallel.
Nevertheless I will try and with outrageous luck on RNG, I see a tiny chance.
Well, all you can do is the best that you can do, so go for it and we'll see where things fall out. :thumbsup: Makes me realize how much any wasted turns cost us in the end and how much more efficient my play needs to get. :blush: But we'll save all that for the, as Alan put it, "congratulations and commiserations". ;)

May the RNG God shine upon you :worship: with much good fortune!! :rolleyes: I'm not sure how much we are owed, or whether we owe... :eek:

First a screen shot keeping the suspense :D
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/x_team_final_1.jpg
Then one showing the date :cool:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/x_team_final_2.jpg

Well. I did it.

8 turns, but I really had to pull all aces out of my sleeve.
I could shave off one turn towards Indus by settling a town and making caravels on the other ocean, but then the RNG wasn't friendly with the Aztecs.


Turn log:
Preflight:
Disband Maximus. He will not get anywhere.
Disconnect the saltpeter.
Change several cavalry builds to horsemen next turn.
There is a stack of slightly wounded cavs on the coast near Hyderabad.
I move them so they cannot be bombarded IBT. Kill a rifle with one.
The others go to Hyderabad.
Rush a horse in Lauriacum.

IBT:
A lot of ship movements, some bombards. Loose 2 cavs to counters.

Turn 1:
Ship chaining is a major PITA. Still ferry over some cavs and horses.
Then decide that's it for transport and attack 2 galleys. Loose two caravel but sink them.
Merge a worker in New Rome and hurry a settler.
Hope to shave off one turn towards Indus by a combat settling.
No dyes for the Roman people, I will need the other worker for a road somewhere else.
Raze Hyderabad.
Raze Satsuma.
Looks like somebody has pillaged my best road towards Chittagong ;)
Bad RNG at Atzcapotzalco, a redlined rifle still defends it.
Raze Centralia.
Raze Leipzig.
Raze the new Niagara Falls.
Raze Salamanca.

IBT:
Ships move. Some bombardments. Loose three cavs to counters.

Turn 2:
Atzcapotzalco razed. I'm fighting with wounded cavs now there. Loose one.
Raze again a new Salamanca.
Cattaraugus still has a LB after the 3 rifles and a cav were gone.
Raze Nagasaki.
Loose a 11 HP army on one lousy vet rifle in Nagoya, it's getting tough.

IBT:
Bombardments. A few counters and a steenkin' barb horse kills a horse fortified in a mountain.

Turn 3:
Raze Cattaraugus.
Raze Tyendanega.
Raze Chittagong (last redlined rifle taken by an already redlined cav)
New Veii founded opposite to Indus. Hurries a caravel.

IBT:
Ironclads bombard and sink a caravel. Only two counters, seems the AI is slowly running dry.

Turn 4:
Raze Kolhapur. That's a big step towards getting the last Indians. I could only get six cavs there by this time.
Raze Oka.
Raze Nagoya.

IBT: A few counters move. One cav lost.

Turn 5:
Build a colony on former indian saltpeter to close road into rest of India
Raze Kahnawake.
Raze Yokohama.
Raze Matsuyama.
Raze Caughnwagda.
Finally get a dyes colony. Just for fun.
Raze Berlin. Finally.

IBT:
Ironclads bombard. Some barbs.

Turn 6:
Raze Chondote. Iroquois are destroyed.
Raze Punjab. Very bloody.
Raze Dacca. Even worse.

IBT:
Business as usual

Turn 7:
Raze Cologne. Auf Wiedersehen Otto.
Raze Sapporo.
Raze Kagoshima. Sayonara Toku.
Raze Indus. Ghandi goes.
Raze Cempoala.

IBT:
Nothing

Turn 8:
Last city Chalco razed. We are alone with a few barbs. Steenkin RNG didn't want to give the city last turn.

A really fun game. Thanks to mad-bax for the idea.
Thanks also to my team mates for bearing with my rants and sometimes even listening to my babble.

I noted a really strange coincidence.
I was always up to remove civs, so I killed em all.
And that with my peaceful nature ;) .

I noted a really strange coincidence.
I was always up to remove civs, so I killed em all.
And that with my peaceful nature ;) .
:cool: :lol:
Excellent :goodjob:
You even finished ahead of our set date! I think it's time for celebrations.
[party] :band: :beer: [dance]
Although the staff wil probably beat us and we can enjoy our 3rd consecutive 2nd place in the sgotms ;)

Congrats on a great finish. This is the first time I've seen resource cutting in action and I'm amazed how well it works. Funny I started using this in my GOTM's now having read this thread.

Which date did you need for the golden laurel, was it before 1415. I admit that I'm very confused about the finish dates.

Our decision to go for domination was certainly misfounded, although it seemed within our grasp, personally I missed the point that it was fastest finish relative to Jason finish, and nothing to do with score, but that is my fault. However even as we landed on the other continent we probably should have won it by 1200ad or so, but got bogged down with some indifferent military tactics.

Of course we do have to wait for the staff to finish to know the results, but that might not come for some time judging from their turn pace :)

Which date did you need for the golden laurel, was it before 1415. I admit that I'm very confused about the finish dates.

According to my calculation (pending mad-bax' ruling) conquest in 1410 is exactly 1 turn better than domination in 1300.

Well. I did it.
[party] :beer: :band: :banana:
A very nice job Klarius. :goodjob: Do we owe the RNG God??
See, when we try to do our best, it usually comes out in the end!! :D
A really fun game. Thanks to mad-bax for the idea.
Thanks also to my team mates for bearing with my rants and sometimes even listening to my babble.
Yes, a big thanks to M-B, another excellent effort and I hope he continues.

And thanks to you as well Klarius. I learned a great deal during this game and have put some to use in the GOTM. Someday, I may finally learn how to play this game. :rolleyes:

According to my calculation (pending mad-bax' ruling) conquest in 1410 is exactly 1 turn better than domination in 1300.
I extend my further congratulations then. Although it hurts as I actually think we had both Laurels in our grasp, and lost them both in the end. But it was fun anyway.

smackster

I extend my further congratulations then. Although it hurts as I actually think we had both Laurels in our grasp, and lost them both in the end. But it was fun anyway.

smackster
Thank you Smackster. I have to say that we watched your curve with awe. You guys must have played an incredible game, in fact, I can't wait to read about it!! :cool:

Obviously those early pyramids helped our score, and when we went ahead of the non-variant teams it looked liked we could win it all, greed overtook our brains :)

Its been fun reading the other spoilers. We actually landed in 1050AD with about 40 Cavalry and 3 Armies against Muskets and only needed to take over the Indian land to win by domination, at that time, dom seemed to be easier than conquest. I've been meaning to replay from there, as I'm sure we can do it by 1200AD.

We also could have landed earlier, but got a bit focused on clearing our continent, again if we'd gone for conquest earlier we would not have needed to clear and settle it so quickly. If we had done that and had not made the mistake of three early war declerations, we might have found that other continent a lot easier.

[party] Do we owe the RNG God??

Well, to some extent.
Overall the RNG wasn't very good, but there were a few critical points, which could have cost a turn or two and these battles went fine.
If the RNG would have really hated me, he could also have culture flipped New Veii. I was running several percent flip risk there.
That would have been catastrophic, because the strategy was relying on having it available. The cavs did target other cities, because I knew I could get them quickly to Indus in the end, otherwise they would have had to crawl through mountains.

Well, team Smackster scored +43, and the Xteam have scored +42 which makes the Xteam leaders for the Golden Laurels ATM. :eek: How close is that?

The only thing for it is for the Staff team to trash you both, then everyone will be happy. :)

The only thing for it is for the Staff team to trash you both, then everyone will be happy. :)
Now that we've finished, I guess one could ask you to stop talking about it and start proving it! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks for a great game M-B, full of lessons for us to learn and rabidly discuss as events play out. :goodjob:

Now that we've finished, I guess one could ask you to stop talking about it and start proving it! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



Yeah.... anyway.

Long on words - short on delivery, that about sums me up. But I have every confidence in my team mates.... maybe.

Yeah.... anyway.

Long on words - short on delivery, that about sums me up. But I have every confidence in my team mates.... maybe.
Good luck to you guys. We wouldn't want The Staff to lose to badly as we might begin to lose confidence in you. NOT!!!! :p

I looked now around a little bit in the other teams threads and downloaded some saves. A few comments on status:

Team Smackster:
I downloaded their 850AD save. They played very well up to this point and were about 20 turns ahead of us at that time. But then they lost focus IMO.
If they had continued just to beat on the AI as good Xenophobes, instead of going in builder mode mainly, we wouldn't have had the slightest chance.

Team Peanut:
They are on a strange strategy and I don't know how this really will work out. I think they can win the game, but doubt they will make the gold. The other continent isn't as advanced as ours, still they will have a hard time there.

Staff Team:
They have a really strange game going on.
It's 900AD and there is no contact between the continents. The other continent may be still quite backwards and they may easily roll over it, when they get there.
They also have the advantage that they probably don't need to be at war with all civs during the final campaigns.
So they may make it, even though they are not much more advanced on the home continent by now than we were.

The other teams on the variant are struggling and I think we will see some more conquest defeats and maybe a few very late comebacks.

Team Smackster:
I downloaded their 850AD save. They played very well up to this point and were about 20 turns ahead of us at that time. But then they lost focus IMO.
If they had continued just to beat on the AI as good Xenophobes, instead of going in builder mode mainly, we wouldn't have had the slightest chance.

It was a little more than focus, I didn't even know the rules, and hadn't read that well enough. But also it seemed like we had a chance of beating the non-variant in Jason score (I think we may be ahead of a few of them still), so that seemed like a fun objective to try to win both variant and non-variant. In the end it back fired and we took far too long to do everything, but it was fun trying.

Also you should consider that we were playing two even three turns each day at times, so we didn't have enough time to talk about what we were doing. We had no skips in the game at all.

smackster

Smackster, I think at that time it was already clear that team Mauer was on a very good growth course.
IMO this meant also that your only chance to beat them would be speed.
And that would imply go for the other big landmass immediately, no matter if your goal is domination or conquest (which still would probably been better even for Jason score).
Settling a lot on the badlands of what you called Hadrian's wall was a waste of resources IMO.
But I learned also in this my first SG that it's not easy to develop a strategy and have everybody then go straight for the same goal.

But I learned also in this my first SG that it's not easy to develop a strategy and have everybody then go straight for the same goal.
The team has to understand the strategy before they can participate in fulfilling it. I have said many times in this thread, I generally did not understand what our goals were and where we were headed - until the very end. That is the only time I felt I contributed to the team effort, before that, I was playing turns without a purpose. I know this cost us time in the end.

This is something we, as a team, need to improve on in further SGOTM's

@Leif
The first part of our strategy was growth and survival.
You did complain about the missing bigger view then, but that wasn't necessary at that time.
Everybody played very good towards these goals, which are the important early points no matter what variant or victory condition.
Then we were a little bit in disagreement for some time. But the course we then took seems to be a successful one.

In the endgame I think there was a clear plan and we executed it fine, though the enemy resistance was stronger than we expected.

I'm overall quite happy with the performance we achieved, even though I have complained about small points a lot.

I never said I was unhappy with the result. For the most part, the game played along in the style I am accustomed to, so perhaps it didn't look too much like I was lost! :rolleyes:

I have never played a game using many of the techniques that we used in this game, although I have read quite a bit about some of them but have been unable to put them into action. That is why I have come to enjoy the SGOTM even more than C or Gotm in many respects. At the same time, I think I could have contributed far more to the team had I understood the why of what was going on. Especially during the middle game, which is my weakest btw, it often seemed that we were playing several different games tied together loosely and not fully integrated. I was able to put it together in the end, but I lost much hair scratching my head in the process. :eek: (Not that head scratching is a bad thing)

Please, don't take it the wrong way as you have taught me several things in this game and I do appreciate it. (Some of which I used in GOTM 34, in which I received one of my highest Jason scores with a conquest victory :D ) All I am trying to say is that we can be more effective as a team and play an even better game if we can coordinate and communicate better. Think about all of us working in concert, we might someday equal the Jason best date in a game, good luck and the RNG being with us. :lol: :cool:

A couple of things to note about the game:

Without Leo's the horseman to cav upgrade trick would have been more difficult. We were essentially cash limited to 6 to 8 cav upgrades per turn. Those cost us 50G because we had Leo's. They would have cost us $100G each and really limited our production.

One thing I think we did particularly well was manage the stream of incoming AI units in the early middle ages. Our fortified cities on choke points (ie Gonzomonium) and our road network on the hills forced the AI units into the open ground where our cats and legions and horsemen shredded them. We lost so few units in that phase that it let us build up a strike force. That also gave us a large number of elites and then leaders.

The legions that harrassed and pillaged Greece were also an excellent move. They kept the Greeks feeble and weak. Their workers cowered inside their cities.

Denying the AI's Sun Tsu's was also an excellent move. Teams where one of the AI's got it have more problems than we did, as they faced vet enemies while we faced regular enemies.

We got lucky with the suicide galley. Our first made it through, right? klarius what made you decide to take that particular sea route? That allowed us to contact the other continent and buy some vitally needed techs. The teams that got crushed lost when the AI's had cav and they didn't. We bought chemistry, metallurgy and military tradition from the other AI's.

Also surveying the other team's threads, it is apparent that the other teams did not/would not use the resource disconnection trick (at least not to the extent we did). They all also set up proper second core without regard to the FP rank corruption bug. It seems clear to me that our assumption that the other teams would use such tactics and thus we should use them, is fundamentally flawed. I think we did a disservice to our fellow competitors by assuming they would do so. However what is done is done.

Also surveying the other team's threads, it is apparent that the other teams did not/would not use the resource disconnection trick (at least not to the extent we did). They all also set up proper second core without regard to the FP rank corruption bug. It seems clear to me that our assumption that the other teams would use such tactics and thus we should use them, is fundamentally flawed. I think we did a disservice to our fellow competitors by assuming they would do so. However what is done is done.
I wouldn't be so quick to come to this conclusion. There are some teams that haven't even build a FP yet. Team Peanut is considering jumping the palace to the other continent as a way of "teleporting" military units. There are teams with much play time remaining and I am not sure conclusions can be drawn until they play out further.

Time to post a final spoiler in the Game Over thread. I know Alan usually does this but I will feel bad if he comes home form a wonderful vacation and has to face this first thing! :lol:

I have put together the following post as a proposal. If you wish anything added or changed, please post and I will do my best. Thanks.

Post follows:

Team X - Final Spoiler - Playing the Variant

After posting our first spoiler, we all went immediately to Team Smackster's first spoiler and were in awe of their result thus far. We decided that we would have to continue and do the best that we could to get ourselves in a position ot eliminate our foes on our continent. we continued with our active defense and chewed up many AI units in what we called "The Valley of Death". The AI continued to attack into the desert area to the west of our core.

Contacts
Klarius managed to get a suicide galley across the oceans in 250 BC to make contact with the Aztecs. We learned that they were no further along in research than we were and that they had not made contact with the other AI on our continent. This put us in the position of being able to purchase techs as they came available from civs that did not know of our poor reputation of making GPT deals and then declaring war. We had a long discussion on whether to trade contacts or not and decided not to trade them immediately. In 440 AD, we traded contacts with Germany, France and England to the Aztecs for Chivalry, World Map, 7 GPT and 70 Gold. The Aztecs went from annoyed to furious as word of Roman harshness and cruelty spread throughout the world. However, from this point onward, we researched at 10% and were able to purchase the necessary techs, including Military Tradition.

Great Leaders
As seems to be the standard operating procedure of the X-Men our first GL arrived after The Great Library and The Pyramids were completed. Our first was 8 turns after entering the Middle Ages. In the next turn set of 10 turns we harvested 3 Great Leaders. These four were used for Hanging Gardens, built an Army, Heroic Epic and Sun Tzu's. We eventually made up our early leader shortage as the game progressed. We were fortunate to get Leonardo's Workshop with one of our GLs.

Military
Early in the Middle Ages we took inventory of the 58 Legions the Military Advisor said we had. Two-thirds of them were conducting MP duty in our cities. We decided that they should be out fighting. We began to build settlers and workers and free up our units to fight.

Greece. We decided to clean out northern Greece and seize the lux's there to allow our cities to grow and remain productive. We then kept Greece weak until we had the units to finally finish them.

France. Being a fairly close "neighbor", we weakened France by taking her cities directly. She fell in 1050 AD.

Babylon. They never were much of a factor in our game. They were always behind in tech and never produced many units. They fell in 1040 AD.

England. England was a powerhouse against us. We sent a Legion Army with a Horseman unit deep into English territory and pillaged everything we could find, especially resources and lux's. By the time we attacked her, England was at our mercy and fell in 1030 AD.

Rusia. The Russians were a minor power in our game. They sent quite a few units against us early but they never expanded as much as wexpected they would. They were also pilaged and harrassed and capitulated in 1265 AD.

Americans. The Americans were a minor power in our game. They never seriously challenged us. We dealt with them late but kept them weak through pillaging and taking a city or two per player cycle. Our focus during this time was the other continent. They were finished off in 1255 AD.

Germany. The Germans were a formidible force against us. We used the same technique with them as we did on America. We took a few cities at a time and kept pillaging them to weaken their defenses. They succumbed near the very end, in the last set of turns.

The other continent. Adrian landed in 1100 AD founding the city of Lauriacum as our outpost of refuge an immediately rushed a Baracks. Our strategy on this continent was to drive up the east side all the way to the north to give ourselves an area in which we could move freely, the Cavs could move their full 9 squares on roads. After hurting the Aztecs and Iroquois, we drove straight into India and japan and took their largest cities, gutting their productive capacity.

Aztecs. The Aztecs were the powerhoues of the other continent. They had large, well developed cities and quite a few resources. We landed in the south and worked our way north along the east side per our strategy. The Aztecs put up quite a fight but were no match for our Cavs, numbering 75 to start and growing to over 150.

Iroquois. The Iroquois were also a tough fight. They were well developed and had a large military. We worked up the east coast and then, able to move up the open "corridor", took out their two cities with horses and saltpeter, denying them resources. They also were eliminated during the final turns.

India. The Indians were not very tough. early on in our invasion, they sent a fair number of Cav units our way and they did a lot of damage in counterattacks. Once we invaded their territory, they fell fairly quickly, but not easily.

Japan. The Japanese had a fairly large army and also hurt us through counterattacks. The fell in the last turn set as well.

Empire Management.
Klarius and Alan were teaching me all about Micromanaging for most of the game. We tried very hard to get the most out of what we had.

We had a fairly long discussion about jumping the palace and that jump's effect with the rank corruption bug. The palace was jumped from the starting location to a city that was north of Athen's location in the former Greek territory. This allowed a second core and maintained a productive core around the Forbidden Place.

We also had a discussion concerning resource disconnection. While I had never used it before, it proved to be a powerful tool in defeating our enemies. Instead of using only shields to produce units, we used a combination of shields and gold to porduce units. This is done by disconnecting saltpeter and producing Horsemen and then reconnecting the saltpeter and upgrading the Horsemen to Cavalry. By doing this, we produced an average of 10 Cavalry units per turn once it was set up. We also turned research off, while keeping a single scientist, to provide an adequate supply of Gold.

I liked Mauer's map complilation and put one together for our team.

Looks good, Leif :goodjob:

I like your write-up Leif :goodjob: .
Nice effort with the map compilation.
I would recommend, just post it in the spoiler thread.
If the other teams want to know more about our awesome strategy ;) , they can read our thread or ask, so I don't think we need to go into more detail.

There are a few minor spelling errors.

You might want to mention the cats/legions/horsemen combination that produced all those elite units and great leaders. We also had a defensive wall of legions fortified on the mountains that forced AI units into the open. That's where all the legions were, not on MP duty.

It was a legion army with a horseman that went pillaging. We didn't have cavalry yet.

The greeks were kept weak by the pillaging legions. The legions threat kept the greek workers hiding inside their cities.

We also postponed our golden age until we had monarchy. That might have been covered in the previous spoiler post.

I don't think we ever managed 10 cavalry a turn. I think it was 6 to 8 only as our income was between 300 and 400GPT.

We sold off a lot of stuff that was not necessary to finance this phase.

Nice write up though.

Adrian

You might want to mention the cats/legions/horsemen combination that produced all those elite units and great leaders. We also had a defensive wall of legions fortified on the mountains that forced AI units into the open. That's where all the legions were, not on MP duty.
Check out this part of the thread. <<MP Discussion>> (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=93700&page=16&pp=20)
It was a legion army with a horseman that went pillaging. We didn't have cavalry yet.
You're right and I corrected it.
I don't think we ever managed 10 cavalry a turn. I think it was 6 to 8 only as our income was between 300 and 400GPT.
I know that during my set of turns I had some income from razed cities and from Barb farming. I have to check, but iirc we were at some point doing better then 400 GPT. You could be correct though.
Nice write up though.
Adrian
Thanks. :D

Leif

Just look at the pictures you posted. We only hit 500GPT at the very end. For the important phase it was 300 to 400GPT.

Adrian

I think for the important phase it was +400 gpt. We hit 400 gpt right after my second to last turnset.

Leif
Just look at the pictures you posted. We only hit 500GPT at the very end. For the important phase it was 300 to 400GPT.
Adrian
Did what you suggested and looked at it. During the 1250 AD turn it was 449 GPT. 1300 went down a little and then it was all up from there. So the last 30 turns the income was between 400 and 500 GPT, when we did the most damage. The last few turns we topped 500 GPT.

Besides, 10 is such a nice, round, and sweet looking, number. ;)

Great finish Klarius. What a cliff-hanger. Sorry I left you with such a tight target. It looks like several of the variant teams are falling by the wayside. Staff are the ones to watch, I guess.

Good write-up leif. Thanks for doing that. It would have been another week before I could have got around to it. There's some urgent business awaiting my attention as soon as I get back on COTM 4 submissions processing.

EDIT PS. During my turns I was getting about 450 gpt, and I was also finding a few barb camps, so I think I converted 8-10 horses per turn.

Great finish Klarius. What a cliff-hanger. Sorry I left you with such a tight target. It looks like several of the variant teams are falling by the wayside. Staff are the ones to watch, I guess.
Yes, I think the staff team is looking pretty gooid right now. It depends upon what victory condition they decide I think and how soon they can achieve it. Their Cavs on the second continent appear to be met by muskets. Can we trade them some rifles perhaps?? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Good write-up leif. Thanks for doing that. It would have been another week before I could have got around to it. There's some urgent business awaiting my attention as soon as I get back on COTM 4 submissions processing.

You're welcome. There is no reason you should have to do them all. It is nice to see you back, although a little early aren't we? :p Hope you had a nice time and good luck with the COTM04 stuff. What a thing to return to.. :eek:

BTW-SGOTM4 will be delayed, in case you haven't had time to catch up on things. M-B explains in the SGOTM3 Maintenance Thread.

EDIT - Just noticed you aren't back yet, hope you are having a great time!! :blush:

Great finish Klarius. What a cliff-hanger. Sorry I left you with such a tight target.
Well, I like a good challenge. :)
But this was really tough.
I spent over 3 hours on planning before I even moved a unit.
Then I had the plan ready that would allow finishing every civ in 7 turns, if the RNG would give every city on the first try (sometimes with very few cavs attacking).
So there was only one turn slack and I needed it on the Aztecs.

Looks like we'll have our first laurels ;) Very well done everyone :cool:

Looks like we'll have our first laurels ;) Very well done everyone :cool:
Thanks to Klarius' final charge (note the new avatar):goodjob: , I think you're right. I'm waiting for the final word from M-B before breaking out the champagne though. I learned last SGOTM that anything can happen until all the teams are done! ;)

Now on to 5 CC, should be interesting. :D

Well, in fact you have to wait till all have finished or passed the year 1844.
That would be the date to win by 20k.
Ok I lurked also and know that it's unlikely that team Bugsy could pull that off, so at least putting the champagne in the fridge seems appropriate. :D