SGOTM3 Rome - Game Thread.

Hi everyone, and welcome to your game thread.

Here is the start position.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM3.jpg

Here are a couple of links you might find useful.

The Original GOTM16 Announcement. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/gotm16_rome.shtml)
The Draft Constitution (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=1733966&postcount=61)

This Months' sponsored variant is Xenophobic NOW
The rules are as follows.
1. Non-Oscillating War variant. You keep a list of opponents and the order in which you meet them.
2. You must declare war on the first Civ you meet before leaving the diplomacy screen for the first time.
3. You must stay at war with that Civ until one of you have been eliminated.
4. You must declare war on the second Civ you met on the same turn that the first Civ was eliminated or 20 turns has elapsed (whichever happens sooner). This is to prevent sandbagging.
5. After each opponent is eliminated or 20 turns elapse you must declare war on the next civ in the list.
6. If you run out of opponents because you haven't met them yet and 20 turns have elapsed, you must declare war on the next opponent you meet before leaving the diplomacy screen for the first time with them

The Xenophobic part of the variant runs as follows.
7. You may never own a foreign worker. You must never buy or sell one, and if you capture them they must be disbanded on the tile on which they were captured.
8. All deals must be at face value. No haggling.
9. You will not establish embassies.
10. You will never retain a town that contains foreign citizens. Such towns must be razed and any workers spawned disbanded.

Also there is a puzzle involving some non-standard Barbarian Units. The puzzle is framed in the same way as it was for the original GOTM16, but the solution is different.

The save will be available from >>HERE<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm_submission_list.php) when the timelock is released. All of your teams save files will eventually be available from this link.

When you finish your turn, you may upload your save to >>THIS<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm.php) link

Have fun, and good luck everyone!

Me be here. :)

Uh... so you didn't write the members list into the start? No problem then.

So the team roster looks like this:

Ankka
WackedOpenAir
shoe35
EL OSO
Jeff1787
waitingtoderail

You might want to PM these guys Ankka, in case they haven't seen the threads.

Uh... WackedOpenAir doesn't seem to exist. :hmm:

You might want to PM these guys Ankka, in case they haven't seen the threads.

I was just doing that. :)

One doesn't exist.

EL_OSO was written with an underscore, IIRC. Not sure. So that might be wrong in the roster you made. :hmm:

Hi, my account wackenopenair was banned for 3 days because elsewhere in the forums i accidently used a bad word. I know a second account is against the rules, but i felt i had to give a sign of life here. So moderator please excuse me. I will only use this account in this thread. Possibly only this once, if i am asked to answer within 3 days, i will use it again in this thread. After 3 days, i will abandon this account and only use WackenOpenAir again.

So i here i am, WackenOpenAir.

In weekends i am often not online, so if i seem to be missing, i usually will be back monday.

This thread is now in my favorites, and i will be reading it dayly.

DO NOT DO THIS AGAIN!
This a/c has been perma-banned. Whilst banned, you still have access to your PM system, so you can let your team mates know via that method, and you can still read the threads.

Double-Logins are not allowed, especially to circumvent bans.

I thikn it is possible to send a PM even though banned. :hmm:

Well, it was a spellng error by Mad-bax... you should perhaps report it so you can upload the saves. :p

I'm bored, so I decided to try and analyze the start a bit.

Looks like a game... but that's not enough bonus food for a settler factory. Let's hope some more is found for teh second city...

We are militaristic & commmercial, so we start with warrior code and pottery (?).

I think we should settle where the setler stands.

We should research pottery if we don't start with it, if we do, then Alphabet.

What victory should we head for?

Please everyone post you ideas and thinkings before we start. :)

I am ready...I agree settle city on the first turn.

Hey, sorry, I haven;t been online the last couple days, I am here and ready to go. Never done this before so I'm not quite sure how it works.......

I would agree that we should quickly settle - either where we stand or one move west.

Rome's a militaristic society, I think we should probably go for domination.... :king:

checking in.

agree with first turn settle.

Romes UU comes fairly early, so we might consider researching Iron Working, and an early conquest victory?

... and an early conquest victory?

Good luck - and I mean that most sincerely. :mischief:

:nospam: Please don't report me to the spam police..

We should now decide whether or not we are going for the variant, BTW. I personally am not so interested in it, but if you guys want I'll play too.


Alpha and wc... we should perhaps research Writing, it will be good for trading with the AI for bronze and pottery, maybe.

I think we should go for iron working and then build Legionaries. Also, wouldn't it be a good idea to try to build a bunch of warriors and then upgrade them to Legionaries???

I vote not to play the variant.

No variant, please - I haven't won at regent yet! :cry:

Ok, so we go for no variant... what victory should we pursue?

Since we're militaristic, and we have an early Golden Age, I think we should go for conquest.

This post is from WackedOpenAir, he sent it as PM to all of us, I think....

variant.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope SOMEONE reads his PM's. I have sent a PM about strategy to ankka before, not sure if he read it. In that i assumed whe would play the variant. Dunno why i assumed it, but i did

If it is to vote for variant or not, i am neutral in that. For myself i would do it; I normally play deity/sid anyway, i like chalenges and it would be a nice change to the game IMO.

However, if other feel it is too hard (i do not know level of game knowledge and experience of the other players except that i noticed ankka finishing pretty high with another team, which looks good of course )
Therefore, consider my neutral, because while i like challenges, i hate losing .

If any of you reads this PM, please post it on the forum directly because i suspect many people not reading their messages.

Also would i like to ask people to be a little more active in this thread if possible. I am probably a jobless lowlife (very busy looking for work though, only finished my study one week ago) but i look at the thread like a dozen times per day, hoping to see some reactions.

Finally how about EL_OSO ?

Uh... I also check this very often, several times a day. Or actually, not so often, only when I see new replies have arrived, subrascriptions are useful...


So, Wacken looks like the best player of our team... Who would lke to start? I think this would be a nice order:



WackenOpenAir
shoe35
EL OSO
Jeff1787
waitingtoderail
Ankka

Any objections?

Please reply somehow if you are able to start, Wacken. If not, I will, but starting plays are one of my worst parts... I''ve never been good at them. :blush: :(

How does this work exactly?

- Nevermind, figured it out.

We're only one of two teams who haven't begun yet! Come on, guys!

Not a hurry, we have 10 weeks time, I think. We can wait for Wacken to start... now if he would somehow reply... I think his ban lifts today or tomorrow.

hello guys, I am no longer banned ! :banana:

I just downloaded the file and am gonna look at it and think about it now.

We should really make clear some long term decisions though. There is a chance we will change them later if the game situation calls for it, but i think it is good to start discussing them now.

1: What victory type? I have not yet played any GOTM's and also have no experience with actually trying to get a high score. The only goal for me in the game has always been to finish it on the highest possible difficulty. It does seem to me though that conquest grants the best score, is this correct?

2: How will we fight wars? There basically are 2 options to fight a war. You can use the standard units, mostly fast movers that give you speed and versatillity, but they are fairly expensive and you will lose quite some of them. This is the best way to fight weaker opponents like normally is the case on lower difficulties. The other way is to go for bombardment units with a few defenders and a few attackers to destroy the weakened units. This will allow you to fight virtually without losses but it is much slower. This is used a lot on deity/sid.
It may sound stupid, but i have no experience playing on emperor, i always played deity and sid. Only am i now playing the GOTM (not S) wich is on monarch, and i am amazed to see how backwards the AI is at that level both on tech on millitairy strength. So that is good to do with fast movers. Well, emperor is in between, so i am not sure....

3: How will we obtain technology primarily? Are we gonna research ourselves? will we start researching ourselves only later in the game or are we gonna rely on the great library? Do you think we should start a 10% research on writing, or go all out on it?

4: WHAT techology to persue? well, this depends on the former choises mostly of course, will we go for the GL? what victory type will we go for?
etc.... For now, i vote writing alse if we do not go for the GL, it opens acces to many other techs including very important, the path to republic (i by the way advise that we go to republic and stay republic for ever) We can trade it to get the other needed techs, the only downside would be if we cannot trade pottery early enough to start a settler factory as soon as we find a food bonus resource. The risk that happening depends of course on how easy to reach our enemies will be.

1: Doesn't matter. Any is ok for me.

2: I think it is good to go with just a lot of troops in the beginning, but later in the game we will just have to use bombardment. It is the key.

3: I think the 10% (20 in the beginning) is a good idea.

4: Writing is ok, we can trade with it for other techs.

Thanx,

OK, because i didnt know what technology costs on emperor, i just started another game, just a standard random game on emperor and tested researching on 100%. In my test game, i researched writing at turn 40, making use units for MP so that i would not need the luxury slider.

edit: 40 was instead of 50 at 10%, in our game i see it is 40. I need to look into the differences between PTW and C3C :)

I have played the first 10 turns:


4000BC: Rome founded
. Worker moves west, mine -> roads.
. Writing started at 20%
3750BC: First warrior ready, moves in northern direction for scouting.
3550BC: Second warrior ready, moves in eastern direction for scouting.
3500BC: Meet greek hoplite.
. The greek have bronze working but do not want to trade it for WC + all our 41 gold.
. Luxury slider to 10% (exploration is more important that gold, so no MP as of yet)

Now is the choise how to continu with our capital.
We can make it a 6 turn settler factory by cutting the game forrest, then irrigating that tile for 4 food. The problem is, we do not yet have pottery to build a granary :mad:
I do now regret not having researched pottery at max :sad:
The worker starts cutting the forrest though.

3350 BC: I meet the French, they have pottery for trade ! It aint cheap, but i buy it for WC + 1gpt + 48 gold. Since the french also offer bronze working, the greek are now willing to offer that for either pottery or WC and they even add 10 gold in the deal. I don't think it matters very much, but i give them warrior code for bronze working. I immeadiately swich production to granary.
The french are 2 techs ahead of us (masonry and ceremonial). The greek are 1 tech behind on us (pottery). I no longer regret going for writing :goodjob:

Hi,

Sorry for the absence. I'm reporting in. I'll download the save and look at it and post later on today when I have a moment.

I must be blind because I don't see a link for the save game on that page from the first post in this thread. Could someone email it to me please?

el_oso AT warofinfamy.com

Either that or point me in the right direction so I can find it.

Thanks

Edit: Nevermind I found it.

Ok for an introduction. I play C3C pretty much exclusively now except for some PBEM games I'm involved in. I am probably a Monarch level player in C3C but play most of my games at Regent since I haven't figured out all of the techniques yet to master the higher level of AI.

Now IMO this would be the best opening sequence of play:

http://eloso.3dretreat.com/sgotm03/sgotm03a.jpg

Terraforming these squares will yield 10F, 10S, & 10G plus what the city center is producing.

I would research Pottery ASAP. I think this could turn out to be a pretty decent settler pump eventually.

First two builds would be warriors.
Then either a barracks or an archer.
I generally like to wait until the town is size 4 before building a settler.
I think it would be wise to wait until we have a second worker to go after the wines on the hills. A road and a mine will make it produce just like a BG but takes too long to build to waste our early efforts on the square. Use the luxury slider as needed to keep the people happy until we can hook this up.

I'm not sure about victory condition at this time. I like to keep my options open. I also hate triggering the GA early. Late middle ages or early industrial age seems to reap the most benefits in the games I play.

I vote to not play the variant. I'd like to focus on the basics of the game without constraining myself to outside rules.

Well, i am done with my 20 turns. The granary is soon to be ready.

If the next player wants me to, i can calculate ahead how exactly to get the settler factory running. But since this is a team game, and obviously everyone wants to make his own decisions, i will only do so when asked to.

Little advise though: Be carefull not to let the city get too small so that it cannot produce 30 shields anymore in 6 turns (keep in mind the growth it gets after 3 of those 6 turns) and maintain the 6 turns settler factory.

Also, please make sure you do not get into war with the greeks, we can't fight hoplites until we are out of ancient age :) (or use loads of catapults).
I did not calculate yet for the settler factory, but maybe it is an idea to build a spearmen before the settler so we can send it with the settler for protection.

Sorry EL_OSO, your post was too late to be considered in the opening play, the first 20 turns have been played already. :) I agree about the wines.
My build que was: warrior-warrior-warrior-granary.

Have fun !

PS: we have a higher score than the other players because actually i made a mistake :) a few turns i had more happines than needed.

EL_OSO, Wacken already played the turns.


Are we playing this on PTW, BTW? :hmm:

Yes PTW i thought ?

Or is it orriginal? hmm...

(only played C3C since a long time)

I think we were gonna play PTW, that was the version mad-bax listed in the roster in the announcement...

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Ankka_SG003_BC3000_01.SAV

Took some tries before succes, but its uploaded now, have fun !

PS: don't expect much screenshots from me, i only have MS paint to edit graphic files and for some reason at cannot make jpg files anymore (i really remember it used to do someday, maybe in my previous windows version)
Also, the quality after resizing is laughable with MS paint.

Anything the next player should remember?

What should our strategy from here be?



WackenOpenAir - just played
shoe35 - UP!
EL OSO - on deck
Jeff1787
waitingtoderail
Ankka

I dont think of very specific strategies now, just the obvious:

-do not get into war with greece
-scout for more AI's
-expand as efficient as possible
-trade technologies when possible
-read everything said previously in thread and ask questions if you have any.

My personal way of playing with a settler factory is to produce a worker with every city i found. Some make it immeadiately, others first make a warrior.

I am used to playing without barbarians though, so maybe we will need to make some more millitary first in some newfound cities. When more tiles are worked around the capital, it may be able to provide a both a settler and a warrior every 10 turns (needs to make settlers in 4, meaning 7 production (the missing 2 will come from the "growth bonus")

I normally never make any workers from my settler factories. They cost half the investment of a settler, but the "return on investment" of a settler is MUCH bigger.

For GA, i personally don't care very much when exactly it is as long as it is not in despotism. (Also not too late, because who knows we might have won by that time already :))
So try at least delaying it until we are a republic. A good golden age is MUCH more important than using your UU to the maximum. (not always, but in this situation it is)

Please could everyone post a post that indicate their experience on playing Civ.


I personally play At max Deity level in SG's, Emperor maybe in own games, although I won the WW2 in the Pacific Conquest on Sid with China once.

When i started playing civ3, i was of the oppinions i should beat deity. It took me about 6 games and reading all forums etc before beating deity. I played a few more deity games before getting bored of it. After that i did not play until conquest came.
I saw there was a new difficulty level, sid and decided i should be able to beat that. First attempt failed. second attempt i still have on my harddrive, the beginning looked good as i conquered one of my neighbours decisively, but then noticed i had made a mistake with the less agressiva AI settings, there only had been one war in the world and that was the one i had fought. I was at the end of the middle ages at 300 AD or so deu to the great library, but investigating cities showed me most were defended by 20 units. So my goal, conquest seems unlikely now. I do not know if i will continue that game for a UN victory since that type of victory does not feel real to me.
I will start a new sid game someday and i think i now have enough experience to win that next one, given a decent start. (if it is not decent i wont play it)

I am also playing the GOTM now, being almost ready with it, i feel am doing very good at it. This is only monarch difficulty though.

So the amount of games i have played is not much, but i have read just about everything there is to read about the game, and i play the highest dificulty levels with care and patience :)

PS: civ2 is what caused my competetive fanaticism in games. like 8 years ago, i played it casually and thought deity was impossible, until i heard about someone beatin that (no internet yet at that time) It became my mission to beat civ2 deity. After that, it has never changed, when i play a game, i must know every little detail about it (most noticably starcraft, diablo2 and civ2&3)

Sorry EL_OSO, your post was too late to be considered in the opening play, the first 20 turns have been played already. :) I agree about the wines.
My build que was: warrior-warrior-warrior-granary.

No problem. I was late to getting involved so this is to be expected. Now I'm going to ask lots of questions (because I want to have the mindset to beat Sid level).

What was wrong about my suggestion to go for pottery first?

What's the benefit of researching Writing first?

Are we hoping to trade it to the other AI for the other techs?

I always go for writing first in C3C when I start with Alphabet to get to Philosophy but the rules are different here.

Why did you choose the cut the forest down before you had a Granary in the build queue?

Is the food gained through irrigating that square more important than the 2s it produces by default?

hello guys, I am no longer banned ! :banana:

2: How will we fight wars? There basically are 2 options to fight a war. You can use the standard units, mostly fast movers that give you speed and versatillity, but they are fairly expensive and you will lose quite some of them. This is the best way to fight weaker opponents like normally is the case on lower difficulties. The other way is to go for bombardment units with a few defenders and a few attackers to destroy the weakened units. This will allow you to fight virtually without losses but it is much slower. This is used a lot on deity/sid.
It may sound stupid, but i have no experience playing on emperor, i always played deity and sid. Only am i now playing the GOTM (not S) wich is on monarch, and i am amazed to see how backwards the AI is at that level both on tech on millitairy strength. So that is good to do with fast movers. Well, emperor is in between, so i am not sure....


This is a point that I never really considered before. I generally go for a combined arms approach with a balance of units for the assault. I probably don't build as much artillery or the slow units as I should since I tend to grow impatient.

Just for an example, could you list what you think would be a good balance for an assault force?

When we get legions, we should produce a nice SoD of them and then whack everybody in range. After others get infantry, if it gets there, we will have to build artillery, not before that, I'd say...

What's the benefit of researching Writing first?

Are we hoping to trade it to the other AI for the other techs?
I think you answered this question yourself. :)

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Ankka_SG003_BC3000_01.SAV

Took some tries before succes, but its uploaded now, have fun !

PS: don't expect much screenshots from me, i only have MS paint to edit graphic files and for some reason at cannot make jpg files anymore (i really remember it used to do someday, maybe in my previous windows version)
Also, the quality after resizing is laughable with MS paint.

Did you play this in C3C?

It won't load in PTW but will load in C3C.

I don't have a lot of experience and can use all the help I can get!

yes i played this in c3c, i thought c3c would do for ptw since it includes ptw. ?

I just found moderator mail that playing it with c3c is not good.

I only have original and c3c disks, what should i do?

In answer to some questions:

I did writing because all the first level techs are usually tradable anyway. i always try to research as much in a horizontal line in the tech tree as possible since that gives you the best chances to get monopoly on a tech by having it first. Also is republic something to aim for.

I cut the forest because yes food is everything, growth is everything in the beginning. The extra growth will more than make up some loss of shields.
Also does the cut give 10 shields.
irrigated it will give 4 food instead of 2 shield+2 food. At this early stage of the game, i consider food to be twice as valuable as shields. It will make growth in 3 and thus a 6 turn settler factory. without irrigating this field, you'd have a 10 turn settler factory (which is not a settler factory, but a city that occasionaly makes a settler)
In early game there is only 1 thing that really counts, and that is growth.

Basic philosoph for strategy games:
You can always spend your resources on 3 things:
-technology
-millitairy power
-empire growth.

Usually empire growth is the best thing to do as long as it does not mean the lack of spendings on the other 2 causes you to be defeated. Militairy power is a short term investment and only should be done if needed for survival or if you expect to get more of a profit from it than the cost (victory in the game of course being the greatest profit possible) Technology is kinda in between being a short term spending and a long term investment, but this is not even a subject here since it is about food vs shields.
In all strategy games i have played this far, the nr1 issue is to balance militairy production vs growth where militairy strength is what forces your opponent to spend less on growth.
Therefore, in strategy games it is good to make your opponent think you are stronger than you actually are since it will make him build more army instead of investments in the future. If you manage to survive while investing in the future, you will beat him when you reap the rewards of your investment.
In this case, the opponent wont attack us if we are a little weaker than them, so we should invest in growth.

Well, that was a long story to explain what everyone knows already, food rules in early game :D. But i just came home after going to the bar, so excuse me for long stories (it can get much worse, people write books about such topics :p )


A good artillery army in early game for example would be 16 catapults, 4 spearmen and 4 archers/swordsmen. This stack takes cities defended by a maximum of 4 units without losing any units. Also do i usually add 1 or 2 horses in the stack (instead of archer, not in addition). This way, if you meet a stack of opposing units, after bombarding them red, you first attack with archers until 1 is left, then attack that one with the horse so the horse still has a movement point to retreat back in the stack and you dont have to split the stack.

ankka, i think i agree about starting bombardment later in the game, but am in doubt about the legions attack. I really dislike despotic golden ages. Also, a war needs a reason, you don't just attack a country because the CIA sais it could have bio weapons.... ehm oh well, what i mean is: We should only attack in despotism if somehow the rewards are worth the cost (cost being the bad GA)

Have you uploaded the save? It's still showing as "start".

Isn't PTW part of C3C? I'm not sure since I bought each one separately but have heard that it is.

Look in your install directory of Civ and see if there is a CIVPTW directory. There'll be an .exe in there if that's the case. It should start up with your C3C disc in the drive if that's the case. Just make sure the version is 1.27f in the lower left hand corner. If not, you'll need the patch.

I have uploaded it, but it was played in c3c.
Since c3c includes ptw, i expected it to function like ptw when beginning with a ptw file. the forest cut costing 10 instead of 4 turns and the tech research 40 instead of 50 made me confident in this believe.

I recieved an email from a mod that it does not work and i must replay the turns in ptw.

I only have the original disk and the conquests disk, am i able to play it ptw?

sorry for my ignorance on this subject.

edit: THANK YOU !

oh i really got afraid i would have to step back because i dont have ptw -sweat-

luckilly, you are right, there is a ptw folder, i am now gonna replay the turns exactly the same way i did them before. expect a new upload within an hour.

edit again:
unfortunately i cannot play it exactly the same, in ptw, the french do not have pottery to trade with us.

edit once more:
Luckilly the greeks now offered pottery so it still is pretty similar, the only difference is we now got different deals in tech trading. I now got:
-pay WC+58 gold for pottery with greece
-pay pottery+WC for bronze + 12 gold with france.

AI movements were also different but that has no influence.

Uploading now.....

so who's next? Shoe?

I play at monarch level. So we each play 20 turns????

No, the first player does 20 turns, then 10 each.

okay, to let you know I have been playing the SGOTM since it began, doing okay I think. However, I have also tried and failed on each GOTM that has been run during that time.

Got it

Wacken: go check the Civ 3 folder you have. It includes folders both C3C and PTW, separately. :)

Then replay your turns in PTW, please.

I have done that as written in the posts above

okay, to let you know I have been playing the SGOTM since it began, doing okay I think. However, I have also tried and failed on each GOTM that has been run during that time.

Got it

shoe you also doing the currrent conquest gotm3? I am pretty close to finishing it and i think im doing damn good :D.

But i'm spending some time do everything very meticulous. For example when i hav 17 production in a city and producing a knight for 70, i will let it produce 1 turn then rush buy the 3 shields for an archer, then need 3 more turns to finish it, making it take 4 turns instead of 5. And basically checking every city every turn and swiching tiles between cities constantly etc....
Takes a while, but works wonders.

So you replayed the turns? Good. :)


I wish I had the patience to do that. :)

So you replayed the turns? Good. :)


I wish I had the patience to do that. :)

Since everyone now only has to play 10 turns, maybe we could have such patience this game? :D

That is true. I usually do it in the beginning, as it has a bigger effect and the civilization is small enough so it isn't so hard... later, if the civ is huge, it's a pain in the neck, so I usually just check through the Domestic advisor that no cities are rioting...

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Ankka_SG003_BC2550_01.SAV

3000BC Turn 0: survey complete

2950BC Turn 1: forest chopped -> start Irrigation: move warriors

2900BC Turn 2: Move warriors: trades still overpriced

2850BC Turn 3: Grainery -> Armory: Move Warriors

2800BC Turn 4: Move Warriors: spot dark blue border to the west of Northern warrior

2750BC Turn 5: Irrigation complete start Road: Move warriors. Hope trading gets better when we contact the mystery civ

2710BC Turn 6: Move still no contact with new civ.

2670BC Turn 7: Move, contact Babylon; Check trades; buy Cerimonial burial from Joan for 39Gold, sell to Alex for 34 gold.

2630BC Turn 8: Armory -> Settler: Lux to 20% : Road move worker to wines

2590BC Turn 9: Move; check trades decide not to at this time.

2550BC Turn10: Move; check trades they still want too much for my taste.

Score: 98

Not much else to tell. Went with irrigation before road to increase growth rate; started road on wines to increase happiness, and allow us to lower the Lux slider.

I am glad that I got to play this quickly. I will be absent until next Friday, July 16, 2004. If my turn comes around before this please just skip me I will catch up on the team thread and let you all know when I get back.

Ok, I got the save. It looks like I'm next in the turn order so I'll try not to screw anything up. I'll look at it first and see if I have any questions and will post here for suggestions.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Ankka_SG003_BC2070_01.SAV


Turn log:

2250 BC: Turn received. Reviewed the situation. I noted that there were more unhappy people in our capital than happy so I had to move the luxury slider up to 30% to prevent a riot.

2510 BC: Moved warriors. Checked trades. 2gpt + 82gp for either masonry or the wheel. Too high right now.

2470 BC: Moved Warriors. Bringing one back to defend the settler. mysticism is now available through Babylon but they don't want to trade. The price for techs goes up with our available gold...

2430 BC: Moved warrors. Detect another civ to the west of Babylon. I'm guessing its the Americans by the color and the F10 space race preview. Settler popped out. Started to build a Spear. No one here mentioned how tight or loose of a build we are going for. From what I've read, a tight build is better in the higher level games. I've decided that the best spot from what I can see is 3 squares southeast of Rome. That will put it within two squares of the capital, on a river. It was either that or 4 squares away to get the wheat in the borders. Rivers are power bases and we need a second city ASAP. Checked trades, and made sure the capital squares were being optimized. Trades are still too high. Writing will soon change that (hopefully).


2350 BC: Moved warriors, settler, worker finished road to wines, moved to start a mine, then a road to eventually connect our first two cities. Moved lux slider down to 10%. Checked trades, still too much gold IMO.

2310 BC: Founded Veil. First build set to warrior. Moved warriors. Decided to change production in Rome to a settler since it is growing too fast. Trades are still too high, 4 turns until writing.

2270 BC: Moved Warriors, checked trades.

2230 BC: Moved warriors, checked trades.

2190 BC: Rome produced a settler. Moving to close in on the wheat and here come the greeks with a town close to our borders. Production set to another settler. Moved warriors. Checked trades, still too much. Writing next turn.

2150 BC: Moved settler. The warrior that came back fortified on the spot where town will be founded. Moved other warrior further northwest. Traded all over the place for techs (Masonry, the Wheel, & Mysticism) and communications with the Russians and the English. Sold Mysticism to the French for 50 gp. Sold masonry to the greeks for 50 gp.

2110 BC: Founded Antium. Set production for worker. Veil produced a warrior, set production for worker. Got contact with the the Germans from the Russians in exchange for contact with the English and 4 gp. English gave us Iron working for writing.

Score is: 113

Note: Rome just grew to 5 citizens and the lux slider will have to be adjusted up 10%.

I would also recommend the next player secure the horses with the next settler just to the west of Rome. There is iron nearby in our borders and should be worked as well.

Nice job both. :)



WackenOpenAir
shoe35
EL OSO
Jeff1787 - UP!
waitingtoderail - on deck
Ankka

I would have given some more ideas on things like city spacing, but i thought i'll wait until the moment is there and we can discus this together. Well i was gone for 2 days, didn't expect it to go this fast :)

For city spacing, we should have at least 12 workable squares for each city. That is excluding mountains. More then 12 is debatable since it will take long before our cities will be able to grow past 12 anyway. Normally i give inland cities 12 squares and let the coastal cities have some more when all the water they can reach is included. That way the coastal cities do have enough good land tiles for early game (8-10) and later on they can start using the sea.

For the production in Rome, keep building settlers every 6 turns, that is the goal of a settler factory, constant settlers. Only when the amount of shields produced in 6 turns is larger than 30, something else should be produced. It looks like rome produces not enough shields to warrant other productions. Lets just make settlers continuously.

2070BC:

The spacing as it is now, is a little too tight to my liking. I would have placed Veii on the forest a little more southwest of where it is now. I would have placed Antium one tile east so the spacing is better and it would be on a river.

Rome needs to be micro managed every turn so that it will have one turn of 4 food and 2 turns of 3 food (by using the iron hills). In 3 turn cycles for growth and maxed production.

The 2 new cities cannot start with a worker because they dont grow as fast as they produce the worker, so they need to start with a warrior, then a worker. (after the worker, i suggest barracks). Even in veii, i suggest making another warrior first (1 spear would have been nice instead of 2 worriors)

Always try to calculate into the future to decide what to produce.

I do like the direction you started building your cities, first claiming the ground that the AI threatens to take.
I would not yet go for the horses with the following city, there is no risk of an AI taking it, and we dont need the horses yet.
I suggest first making a city on the forest tile east of the most westen game resource so we can have another city with 4 food surrplus after cutting that tile. I am unsure if we should make a granary there since it looks like we will have so little space for expansion that by the time a factory would be running there, the space would be full.
after that, i'd make a city south of rome, it is not completely explored yet, but very likely we can make a coastal city if we go 3 squares south from Rome. There we could build a curragh for scouting purposes. Placing it more to the east might also be good but we need to scout that a bit first. (move the warrior from Veii up the mountains for scouting). the tile southeast of that little lake looks like an option. Placing a city there would stop the AI from expanding in our direction. After that, we can occupy the north and west, placing every as many cities as possible next to the rivers there.

We could think about occupying the 3 silks in the east, but most likely we wont have much time before the AI takes it and i would not like to do that with one of the next 2/3 settlers we will make. If the AI didnt take it yet by then, we need to consider that option.

For research i am in doubt because i don't know emperor level very well. On deity/sid, i would go literature without a doubt because the AI is very unlikely to go for it, on monarch i would go for code of laws without a doubt because the AI is slow enough not to beat me to it. I don't know what our chances would be to get Code before the AI gets it. Code would be better since it helps us reaching republic, but researching a tech we cannot trade would be wastefull. Maybe someone else has more emperor experience?

I still don't know if we go for GL. This also depends on emperor experience. On deity/sid, it is a godsend. On monarch it is absolutely not needed since you outresearch the AI by far and with ease. (my only monarch experience is the GOTM of this month)

The warrior that should be produced in Veii before the worker should be sent to Rome in order to serve as MP so that we can save money on the tax slider.

Thats my rambling for now. I know i write a lot and give a lot of advise. I hope you guys don't think i am trying to dictate the game, it is just advise and my ideas. I only hope to start discussions with it and maybe some less experienced players can learn a bit from it (and maybe i can learn from the discussions if you guys give your ideas)

For the production in Rome, keep building settlers every 6 turns, that is the goal of a settler factory, constant settlers. Only when the amount of shields produced in 6 turns is larger than 30, something else should be produced. It looks like rome produces not enough shields to warrant other productions. Lets just make settlers continuously.


Rome is building a settler every 5 turns without micromanagement. I double checked the city screen every turn and it wasn't needed here (yet). That doesn't mean we shouldn't pay attention to it. I would also like to note that the iron wasn't visibile until the to the end of my turn sequences. Also is there a way to get a settler in 4 turns through micromanagement? If that is the case, then we definitely need to pay attention to the city screen.


The spacing as it is now, is a little too tight to my liking. I would have placed Veii on the forest a little more southwest of where it is now. I would have placed Antium one tile east so the spacing is better and it would be on a river.


I would agree with you on lower difficulty levels. On Chieftan, I would always ensure that I had 21 workable squares. We'll be building a lot of temples or libraries to get more than 9 in the beginning. Most of the articles I've read in the War Academy indicate to space the cities with 2 open spaces between them and there are some that use the ICS strategy and have only 1 space. If we all want 3 spaces between cities, everyone should speak up and say so now. Either way, it doesn't make a difference to me. Eventually Greece will have to be eliminated and more cities in despotism means a bigger army. Just a note: On monarch level I would have moved the settlers that one additional square.


The 2 new cities cannot start with a worker because they dont grow as fast as they produce the worker, so they need to start with a warrior, then a worker. (after the worker, i suggest barracks). Even in veii, i suggest making another warrior first (1 spear would have been nice instead of 2 worriors)


According to my screen they do grow as fast. It takes ten turns for Antium to produce a worker. Incidentally, that's the same amount of time it takes to grow to size 2. To further justify this decision, we will soon have 4 cities and only 1 worker. We're not industrious and should have at least 1 worker per city. If I'm not mistaken, I also recall you stating earlier that your first build in new cities was almost always a worker (with no barbs). Currently, both towns are defended but if the next guy feels we need a spear, then by all means make one.


I would not yet go for the horses with the following city, there is no risk of an AI taking it, and we dont need the horses yet.


I disagree. Every time I think like that, the AI takes it. If not the next city, it should be with in the next 3 built IMO. Horses and Iron are the two most important resources until the late industrial age.


I suggest first making a city on the forest tile east of the most westen game resource so we can have another city with 4 food surrplus after cutting that tile. I am unsure if we should make a granary there since it looks like we will have so little space for expansion that by the time a factory would be running there, the space would be full.
after that, i'd make a city south of rome, it is not completely explored yet, but very likely we can make a coastal city if we go 3 squares south from Rome. There we could build a curragh for scouting purposes. Placing it more to the east might also be good but we need to scout that a bit first. (move the warrior from Veii up the mountains for scouting). the tile southeast of that little lake looks like an option. Placing a city there would stop the AI from expanding in our direction. After that, we can occupy the north and west, placing every as many cities as possible next to the rivers there.


All of those squares are excellent choices. Would you guys like me to prepare a screenshot for us to peruse and discuss future city placement? It's not a problem on my end. Everyone from here on out will have at least one settler to move and I think it might be a good idea to have a game plan.


For research i am in doubt because i don't know emperor level very well. On deity/sid, i would go literature without a doubt because the AI is very unlikely to go for it, on monarch i would go for code of laws without a doubt because the AI is slow enough not to beat me to it. I don't know what our chances would be to get Code before the AI gets it. Code would be better since it helps us reaching republic, but researching a tech we cannot trade would be wastefull. Maybe someone else has more emperor experience?

I still don't know if we go for GL. This also depends on emperor experience. On deity/sid, it is a godsend. On monarch it is absolutely not needed since you outresearch the AI by far and with ease. (my only monarch experience is the GOTM of this month)


I'm not an emperor level player yet. I just assumed that the possibility of building the GL would be a good option which is why I set it to research Literature. A library will also expand the borders of newly founded towns. We can't trade Code of Laws in PTW? Its been a while since I've played it and don't remember.


Thats my rambling for now. I know i write a lot and give a lot of advise. I hope you guys don't think i am trying to dictate the game, it is just advise and my ideas. I only hope to start discussions with it and maybe some less experienced players can learn a bit from it (and maybe i can learn from the discussions if you guys give your ideas)

Your advise is appreciated. I welcome this discussion and hope others have things to say as well. The only reason (besides entertainment) for me playing a SGOTM is to learn strategy from other players to improve my game. The only part of your advise that I found confusing is the priorty of building a town defender over a worker since it contradicts an earlier post.

Also we need to discuss the course of action when the AI demands tribute. On regent and below you can tell them to shove it and get away with it most of the time. On monarch and above it generally will require a war if you do that.

I think that a screenshot would be nice, and more advice on city placement. When you say two or three open squares, do you mean from the border? I assume that's what you mean. I also think that horses are important in the early going, and if we're going for a conquest victory, we will need every military advantage we can get.

I'm looking at this as a learning opportunity, so all the advice I can get will be appreciated.

Rome is building a settler every 5 turns without micromanagement. I double checked the city screen every turn and it wasn't needed here (yet). That doesn't mean we shouldn't pay attention to it. I would also like to note that the iron wasn't visibile until the to the end of my turn sequences. Also is there a way to get a settler in 4 turns through micromanagement? If that is the case, then we definitely need to pay attention to the city screen.

Rome has growth every 3 turns, a settler takes 2 citizens. Yes we might occasionally be able to produce a settler in 5, but on the long term it will take 6 turns per settler since it is needed for growth. If you just keep building settlers, the city will get smaller until the size needed to produce settlers in 6 turns. The other option would be to let the city grow large enough to produce a settler in 4 and have the other 2 turns between city growth to produce a warrior.



I would agree with you on lower difficulty levels. On Chieftan, I would always ensure that I had 21 workable squares. We'll be building a lot of temples or libraries to get more than 9 in the beginning. Most of the articles I've read in the War Academy indicate to space the cities with 2 open spaces between them and there are some that use the ICS strategy and have only 1 space. If we all want 3 spaces between cities, everyone should speak up and say so now. Either way, it doesn't make a difference to me. Eventually Greece will have to be eliminated and more cities in despotism means a bigger army. Just a note: On monarch level I would have moved the settlers that one additional square.

No problems here, i know oppinions differ a lot on this, also on higher levels. Personally i like 12 tiles per city, but other oppinions might be as good or better.


According to my screen they do grow as fast. It takes ten turns for Antium to produce a worker. Incidentally, that's the same amount of time it takes to grow to size 2. To further justify this decision, we will soon have 4 cities and only 1 worker. We're not industrious and should have at least 1 worker per city. If I'm not mistaken, I also recall you stating earlier that your first build in new cities was almost always a worker (with no barbs). Currently, both towns are defended but if the next guy feels we need a spear, then by all means make one.

You see the numbers below the city names? they give a greater number for city growth than for production turns remaining. That means the worker would be ready before the city gets to size 2.


I disagree. Every time I think like that, the AI takes it. If not the next city, it should be with in the next 3 built IMO. Horses and Iron are the two most important resources until the late industrial age.

I still stand by my oppinion, the AI is far away from those horses and we can take them any moment, i suggest stopping the AI's expansion in our direction as described, and the city i talk about with the game resource is close enough to the horses to have some control by providing early vision if the AI would move a settler close and by obstructing such settlers.

All of those squares are excellent choices. Would you guys like me to prepare a screenshot for us to peruse and discuss future city placement? It's not a problem on my end. Everyone from here on out will have at least one settler to move and I think it might be a good idea to have a game plan.

Yes i would like that.

I'm not an emperor level player yet. I just assumed that the possibility of building the GL would be a good option which is why I set it to research Literature. A library will also expand the borders of newly founded towns. We can't trade Code of Laws in PTW? Its been a while since I've played it and don't remember.

We can trade it, but if the AI beats us to it, the trade options will be less. I think it is too early to think about libraries, if we need not to build militairy, i prefer building granaries first. I am still not sure about the GL, my personal feeling tells me we wont need it but i am not sure.

Your advise is appreciated. I welcome this discussion and hope others have things to say as well. The only reason (besides entertainment) for me playing a SGOTM is to learn strategy from other players to improve my game. The only part of your advise that I found confusing is the priorty of building a town defender over a worker since it contradicts an earlier post.

I want to build the defender first because growth is not fast enough, this is usually the case in the first cities since they have little or no corruption and therefore 2 or more production. with 2 production the worker would be ready in 5 while growth will take 7 or 10 turns depending on river or not. Veii even has 3 production and thus will make the worker so fast that 1 warrior is not enough.


Also we need to discuss the course of action when the AI demands tribute. On regent and below you can tell them to shove it and get away with it most of the time. On monarch and above it generally will require a war if you do that.

On deity/sid i always pay in ancient age unless i actually WANT war with that civ or if he is on an island from where he wont reach me. I suggest doing this on emperor as well. Certainly in greece does so. We cannot have war with greece and if we get war, we have nothing to win, only to lose. We cannot beat their defence 3 units and thus cannot conquer any of their cities (also making it harder to regain peace)

More about the city placement thingy and horses: at this moment, growth and defence are very important. Also if we go to war, i suggest starting out with swordsmen only since horses die too much, the many mountains negate its movement advantage and the enemy is close enough to use movement one units. retreat only works 50%, i rather have the much better chances of winning from the swords. Most of all though, i prefer to delay war until we settled all the ground that is available to us and possibly got to republic.
The AI taking the horses really is no risk in here.
It is best to first build those cities that provide us most benefit in growth, production and commerce. Horses do not provide us benefit for the near future because we dont need horsemen yet. This all is assuming in PTW retreat actually is 50%, i know it used to be 100% someday long ago, am i right that in this version it is 50% like in c3c ?

A screenshot for some dotmapping would be nice, but we need some more exploration. You can always move the warriors in the cities one or tiles out away from the cities to scout a little. That way they can get back to the city when needed.

Going for a conquest victory indeed needs militairy, but always be carefull not to go to war too early since there are more than 1 opponents.
Building militairy comes at a cost of long term power as you could also be spending on granaries, workers, libraries etc that give long term advantages.
It always is a matter of finding the right moment to go to war. If you have build up so such a powerfull nation before going to war that you run over your enemies with such a power that you have more units than needed and are only slowed down by your units movements, you are too early.
If after fighting your first opponent you notice the other opponents having grown more powerfull than you while your power growth was slowed down during the war, you started too early. (that is only for conquest reasoning of course, there can be other reasons like resources that make you go to war early, but we have both resources we will need in ancient age)

In some strategy games, there are no things like corruption etc and conquering your enemies lands increases your power a lot since you will take the production from there. In civ however, this is not the case. the conquered lands are hardly productive, in civ, the benefit of a war is often not worth the cost of it. Attacking because you want conquest should be done when you can afford those costs, not earlier.

When you say two or three open squares, do you mean from the border? I assume that's what you mean.


No, I mean from the city square. In despotism, you are allowed to support 4 units per town/city/metropolis. 2 or 3 squares from the border will be a very loose city build and will net less cities initially which in turn means a smaller military. The theory behind this is that the city won't grow beyond size 12 until Sanitation is researched and is a waste of worked squares in the early game. A loose build works easily on Warlord/Chieftan without too much harm, but the quicker you have a stronger military on the higher difficulty levels the better. We'll have less citizens born content (if any) on emperor level and will have to pay attention to the luxury slider until we have more luxuries. We don't want to get into a situation where we are paying a tremendous amount of gpt for our military because it will take away from our ability to keep our citizens happy and research technology.


You see the numbers below the city names? they give a greater number for city growth than for production turns remaining. That means the worker would be ready before the city gets to size 2.


My mistake. When I ordered the build it did say 10 turns to complete. It does need to change to something else since I overlooked it.

Ok here is a screenshot of the immediate vicinity of Rome so we can discuss a dotmap:

http://eloso.3dretreat.com/sgotm03/sgotm3b.jpg

Here are my conclusions so far:

http://eloso.3dretreat.com/sgotm03/sgotm03c.jpg

WackenOpenAir is correct that the builds need to be changed in Veil and Antium. They should be changed to either a warrior or a spear. I, myself would prefer a spear since we'll have a defensive strategy at first.

From my understanding from his posts, the warrior presently in Veil needs to scout southeast two squares to reveal more of the map to us. Then he can fallback to Veil to serve as a MP. This will allow us to adjust the dot map and expand in a southerly direction to cut off the greeks.

I don't know enough of what is south of us to propose city sites in that direction yet and my dotmap reflects that.

The dot that is to the north of Rome is straddling two squares. I'm not sure which one is best at this point which is why I left it as such.

To the west is the game square and we can also see 3 BG squares just to the east of it. I would propose not settling on a BG unless there isn't any other option.

I'll play today, I was gone yesterday.....

north of rome, i would place the city a little more southwards since as you made it, we dont use all the hills NE of rome. So i would place it on the hills 2 tiles north+ 1 NE of rome. or on the plains straight north of rome, but there are so many hills and so little food tiles...... so i'd go for the hills.

The one straght NW of rome i agree on for now (further exploration can of course alway change ideas)

The western city there means we have an unused tile between in and rome. That kind of sucks. A solution would be to place a city on the hills there NE of the horses. It doesnt immeadiately benefit from the game, but we'd build another city that covers that ground and then have the city on the hills use the game (since that will be a low corrupt city where the growth is more prefered)

The on in the east i dont really like yet because it doesnt cover the luxeries before growing and still will be pretty corrupt. It wont get the chance to grow cultural borders before the AI stands next to it. I think if we make a city there we need to place it further away. It would then only be there fore providing the lux.

settling on BG we should indeed not do. But having squares we cannot just about as bad :).

so that would be like this:

I like yours better. It's a tighter build which I like.

Which one should be first?

What happens if we find something interesting to the south of Rome after moving the warrior?

I guess we have to wait and see what Jeff does.

I have to install a new hard drive. I will most likely be away for a day or two. Good luck while I'm gone.

Whoops, I accidently unsubscribed - back on!

Turn 1: 2070 BC Changed production in Veii and Antium to warrior. Moved luxury slider to 20% so Rome wouldn't riot. Moved warrior S/E to explore.

Turn 2: 2030 BC nothing noteworthy.

Turn 3: 1990 BC Rome produced settler.

Turn 4: 1950 BC Veii produced a warrior, now going for worker.

Turn 5: 1910 BC Antium produced a warrior, now going for worker.

Turn 6: 1870 BC Cumae was founded 4 squares west of Rome.

Turn 7: 1830 BC Veii builds a worker.

Turn 8: 1790 BC nothing noteworthy.

Turn 9: 1750 BC Rome builds a settler. He is heading north. Next guy can decide where to settle.

Turn 10: 1725 BC Antium builds a worker.

During my turns there were no trades that I could make. I moved one worker toward the new city because it needs to be connected. Also, two workers can connect Antium and irrigate the wheat..I think that would be best. We now have iron. I put Veii to build a granary and Antium to build barracks, but the next guy can change that. Any comments would be appriciated, I'm still somewhat of a novice player!

Ok, comments:

1: Give your save file the correct name :)

2: About Cumae:
-It is one tile away from the coast (on the coast is a better place for cities)
-The tile exactly in the middle between Rome and Cumae cannot be used by either one of them.

I will now try and explain my idea's for the next cities to be made:

- 4 tiles SW of rome. (it is on the hills, near a river and can acces that one tile between Rome and Cumea)
- 4 tiles NW of Rome. (just because it is on a river and the right distance)
- 1 tile NE of where the settlers stands in the safe game (as explained in previous post)
- somewhere south of Veii. It should not be too close too veii since veii is already so close to those other 2 cities. It should be on one of those lakes. It should have some grassland in its borders for food, only hills wont be good. Still not sure where exactly. 3 south of Veii might be nice.

I see the luxury in the NE are already taken, i suggest not moving in that direction at all since cities there wont be of very much use for us; we dont need the horses there, we cant get the luxury there and the city will be hard to connect across the mountains.
Also do i suggest not building in the hills in the SE. They cant produce enough food to grow.

Placing one city south of Veii should obstruct the AI's expansion in that direction, but we don't know how far away the coast is in there, we shall see.

The road we are gonna build towards Cumea should not go over that hill but rather south of it, that way it will both connect the horses and the next city to be made on the hill as explained above.

I see 2 workers on one tile. For worker movement points it is better not to do that, now just irrigate and road it simultainiously, but please just let every worker do its own job in the future.

I am a bit in doubt if i would like to build a granary in Antium as well. If the greeks are not planning to fight us soon, a granary would be nice there, but if they do get agressive, we need some millitairy power to keep em from attacking us. I think i feel slightly more for a granary now, but you may count me neutral on this.

One warrior should be moved to Rome for MP, i suggest moving one from Antium to rome and scouting the south with one from Veii. For all other cities we make, the worriors made there can always scout a few tiles around until they are needed inside the city.

When literature is discovered, don't trade it until there are 3 or so techs available for trade. If we trade it for only 1 tech, the AI will pass it on and we wont get any more trades from it.

Also would i very much like your votes for GL or no GL: I vote NO. If it turns out yes, a prebuild should be started immeadiately. (Veii i think).

Also would i like to know when you guys think about starting war (assuming no one starts war with us) I vote at least after we gone to republic in order not to have a despotic golden age.

We could also make cumea another worker/settler factory by giving it a granary after the worker. The worker can cut the forests on top of the game to speed up the granary again as well as provide the food. It will take roughly 20 turns after the worker before it gets running, but the city does have the potential. cutting the game forest would be the first worker job.

And keep microing the cities (rome's food most importantly) and lux slider :D

Jeff, you should upload the file to the GOTM server instead of attaching, that way our score and stuff can be seen there and would be better if it was there... you can post a link to it here then.

When you finish your turn, you may upload your save to >>THIS<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm.php) link

That's the place. :)

The roster:


WackenOpenAir
shoe35
EL OSO
Jeff1787 - just played
waitingtoderail - UP!
Ankka - on deck

All right, here goes nothin'

Um, the game's still showing 2070 BC.

I don't know if he uploaded yet and i dont know if he changed the name yet. Neither do i know if you only checked the filename or the ingame date, but the game he posted on the forum here is the correct date 1725BC with the filename 2070BC.

OK, I've finished my ten turns.

hope this works....


Jeez, does that come out poor quality! How do you put them right in the message text?

What'd I do? Now it's there!

The AI rarely researches literature, so we will be able to trade it when we want to.

Why did you build the city in grasslands? We have many hills in that area and little grasslands, so its better to build a city on hills so we have more grasslands to use for it. Also this way there are tiles in those hills next to the river we don't have acces to. It is ok if i give advise and people think and do differently. but noobe even comments on it or anything, it seems to be simply ignored. Oh well, i'll just play my 10 turns and not expect any more discussions.

About the archer: with militaristic civs, i prefer to build barracks first before making any units that you ever expect to fight. I also try to build as few as possible warriors without barracks since veterans might be upgraded someday. (i never upgrade a regular unit).

Basically because I tried to follow your suggestions and moved northwest instead of northeast.

Dumbass.(Me, that is)

By the way, I definitely took into account your advice and Ankka's, I did tell you all that I was a novice at this and am trying to learn. It is a game, after all.

No problem, you aren't playing at all worse than I was playing when I started SG-ing.

Any ideas on what to do, wacken?

I'm up in 2 SG's, I'll propably play this first, though, propably tonight.



WackenOpenAir - on deck
shoe35
EL OSO
Jeff1787 - just played
waitingtoderail - just played
Ankka - UP!

Playing now...

Hey, where's the save...?

The save isn't there because Jeff never uploaded his, and I don't know whether or not I can upload mine before he has. I did ask about it twice in my earlier post. Anyway, let me know what you think, and I'll upload it tonight if you all think that's what I should do.

We could wait for Jeff to upload his, so the uploader won't get mixed up. Let's not risk it.

You can upload your save waitingtoderail. It's fine, you don't have to wait for Jeff. :)

D'oh. There went my reason for not to play so fast. ;)

:joke:

Good to know that, m-b. :)

suggestion:

waitingtodorail, if he still didnt upload his file, you can upload both your starting file and finishing file (in that order obviously) then ankka can go on with his turns.

I don't have new suggestions since i also dont have the newest save file.

edit: oh never mind, i see mad-bax already answered about this.

What should I name the file?

Anything you want, it will be renamed when you upload it to the GOTM server.

OK, I uploaded the file with the correct date. Sorry for the confusion. And Wacken......, I read all of your posts and appreciate your suggestions. Please continue with the comments.

Ankka, I sent you a PM, please read ASAP.

I'm back up and running (somewhat). At least Civ and the expansions are installed and working.

No problem, waitingtoderail, just replay the turns. :)

also Wacken did a mistake on this, remember...

OK, well, what happened is that I didn't realize that you couldn't play in C3C. I mean, I knew it was a game set up in PTW, but I thought as long as it was set up under the rules of PTW, you could play it in C3C. ANyway, I've replayed the turns, I made one change and that was to put the first city where I actually intended. I did finish Lit a turn earlier and was able to trade it for most of the available techs, but a couple of AIs wouldn't trade for it. Anyway, my apologies.

Here's the score - We're pulling up the rear.

k, nice, indeed i made that mistake as well :)

Don't worry about being lowest in score, thats normal. In sid games, its even normal to have only one third of the score of the leading civ at this time, and that is no raeason to worry.

I don't even worry about being lowest in score compared to the other teams :D

I hope i can play my turns before the weekend, cuz i wont be there in the weekend. If i don't get to do them before the weekend, feel free to swich my place with someone else rather than waiting 2 days.

I will NOT be present between aproximately friday 20:00 and sunday 22:00 west european time (+01 GMT)

Do you want to play now and have a swap with me, Wacken? I could play after you, so you got to play your turns. :)

Ok, i will :)

K starting: I am in doubt if its a good idea to research math since we certainly wont be able to trade anything with it. Besides math, the only thing we will want is republic. I would think about doing a 10% on republic now so we can use that to trade math and the other needed techs. On the other hand, the AI would beat us at republic most likely anyway. So well, i am not sure what i would have done, but you started math so math it is. May be the right decision, may be the wrong decision, i am not sure. (But i just post all my thoughts) Lets hope it will work out ok (work out ok means we want to beat the AI at researching either construction or currency) The disadvantage is, i don't expect to get republic now for quite a while.

I trade map making and world map from america for poly and code. (chose america because most likely they have more info on their world map than greece)

Swiching to workers in Neapolis and Pompeii (sorry for swiching productions, but workers are the life and blood of a civ nation) The worker near Neapolis builds a road around the hills because roading 2 grass tiles takes just as long as the hills and the hills wont be used for a long time (until grasslands can make 3 food)

First settler produced moves up north because the north is the most likely to be taken by AI.

The scouting warrior in the south moves back to Pompeii.
The scouting warrior in the far north is fortified on a mountain because trading maps revealed everything around there anyway. he can be disbanded as soon as enemy territory grows over him or when we start paying upkeep.

I sell our world map to england and babylon for 20 and 15 gold respectively alowing us to run on a deficit for a while and speeding up the research on math.

neapolis starts granary after worker.

Cumea starts worker after barracks, then granary.

Antium starts granary after archer.

Veii starts barrack after granary. (or do we say armamanetarium after granarium?)

England has beaten us at math by 4 turns, this is not so much of a problem since we cant trade it anyway as long as we get either currency or construction to trade with.

The french demand our territory map and 13 gold, so i pay them.

Veii starts legionairy after barracks, although i would not like an early golden age and thus want to prevent war until we are republic, if we are forced into a war, i guess we better have something that wins that war. Legions are so much better for cost than anything else we can get.

Pompeii starts barracks after worker

END OF TURNS

for the near future i suggest immeadiately taking the plains in the north west before france does so. After that, south and southwestern penensula's.

Oh yeah, the AI also completed some wonders during my turns, oracle and collosus, not very interesting IMO, we only need to take care who will get the GL, so we trade techs to that civ first (cuz else they would get it free anyway)

Math ready next turn !
(be sure to move up the slider again, i set it to minimum to finish math in this turn)

Have fun guys.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Ankka_SG003_BC1225_01.SAV

PS: look at the graph with all teams in it, we aint doing too bad.

Ok... I will play today or tomorrow.

Oh just think of one thing. the granary in cumea could pretty well be changed to legions since it will have 4 surrplus when the game is cut and irrigated.
Only if you want to make it a worker factory, a granary would be needed.

As it is now, it could only help to start using the hills that provide less food, so that is still an option (since we probably want a granary there someday anyway, when it is bigger) But i see you guys are more into units than granaries, so that is the right city to make legions.

Sorry for making the mistake, my mind was not so clear while playing :)

Playing finally.

1225BC [Preturn]: Switch Cumae from granary to Legion.
Lux up 10% to avoid Veii from rioting.

IBT: We research Maths > Currency, sci rate up to 70%.

We can build the Forbidden Palace. Where should we?

1200BC [1]: :sleep:

IBT: Oops, forgot to trade Maths around, and Cathy demands it. I refuse.

She declares war.

1175BC [2]: Maths to Joan for WM + 45 gold.

To Hammi for 52 gold + WM.

Everyone else is bankrupt.

1150BC [2] - 1025BC [6]: Two battles in the North where we lose our warrior but kill a Russian one. Russia has swordsmen.

1000BC [7]: Found Hispalis > Warrior.

975BC [8] - 925BC [10]: :sleep:

Some notes:

Veii can build Legionaries in 5 turns. Could be 4, with some additional mining. Remember to use the Iron hills when Rome doesn't.

The save to next better player. :) (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Ankka_SG003_BC0925_01.SAV)

WackenOpenAir - swap with Ankka
shoe35 - UP! :)
EL OSO - on deck
Jeff1787 - just played
waitingtoderail - just played
Ankka - just played

Russia is pretty far away iirc, i guess we wont be taking its cities, so in that way the war wont pay us anything. I just a few russian units will reach us, could we please kill them with archers until we are republic?

Usually i wouldnt sell math for such a small amounts of gold because i rather make the chance to be first at currency as big as possible. Currency or construction gives us chance to trade republic which is 2847238x more important than these amounts of gold, therefore i would most likely have sold or even given code of laws and phylosophy to those who dont have it, in order to enlarge the chance they will research republic.

Espescially since we are expanding to the north, we should take care and make sure we dont found any undefended cities anymore. I just really would hate to get a despotic GA over this little war though, so i'd prefer to make peace as soon as possible, even if we have to pay a bit for it

I'm sorry about those tech deals, but we weren't the first to have maths, so I thought I'd sell them before the AI trades them...

Sorry if I messed up. I wasn't just really keen in someone else also wanting Maths, like Russia did.

I'm not saying you messed up at all, just saying some things i would have done different :D. Which obviously doesn't even mean that has to be better.

Yeah, but I'm sure I did mess something up. Or not. Whatever.


Shoe? You're up...!

Just getting back from out of town

got it

Skip over my next turn. My BIOS is messed up and I'm still having stability problems. I've decided to have someone else look at my system and don't know when I'll be back. I'll post here when I get it back.

925BC Preturn

900BC Turn 1: Antium granary -> Spear; Found Viroconium start worker; Move fighting types, and workers, start road near Veii

IBT French building Pyramids, Neapolis Granary -> worker

875BC Turn 2: check trades, Joan and Liz both have Monarchy and Const. but are not dealing. Forest chopped near Ravenna start road. Start road from Cumae to Hispalis.
Moving

IBT Pisae Armory -> spear

850BC Turn 3: change production in Ravenna to worker; moving; Joan, Liz still not dealing

IBT French building hanging garderns

825BC Turn 4: moving ask Babylon to leave our territory. Check trades Joan, Liz still not dealing. Germany has the Republic but he is refusing to deal as well.

IBT Aztec’s complete Pyramids, America building Great Library

800BC Turn 5: move.

IBT Greeks building Great lighthouse, French building hanging gardens

775BC Turn 6: move

750BC Turn 7: Moving

730BC Turn 8: Moving; trades still unattainable; up lux to prevent riots

710BC Turn9: Moving; found Lugdunum -> granary; trades still a nogo

690BC Turn10: Moving; forgot to check trades.

Score 312





Here is the save http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Ankka_SG003_BC0690_01.SAV

Nice job. :)


WackenOpenAir
shoe35
EL OSO - skipped
Jeff1787 - UP!
waitingtoderail - on deck
Ankka

Rome has gone to size 1, i guess someone forgot to micro the food one turn.

Since we are now researching ourselves, should we not go for libraries rather than market places?

Well anyway, i am gonna be away a bit in the near future:

Friday 30-07 - Monday 02-08 i will only be on the forums but can't play.

Tuesday 03-08 - Monday 09-08, i will not be there at all. (WackenOpenAir festival)

Tuesday 10-08 - Sunday 14-08, i will be on the forums, but am unsure if i can play.

I'll play late tonight or tomorrow......Jeff................Any suggestions are welcomed.

I will be away from tomorrow, the 29th, to Sunday the 1st of August.

WackenOpenAir
shoe35
EL OSO - skipped
Jeff1787 - just played
waitingtoderail - UP
Ankka - on deck

Prior to turn 1. Made peace with Russia and they gave us 80 gold. They wouldn't give any technology for peace. Traded currency to Germany for monarchy and world map. Traded currency to Babylon for construction and world map. Traded currency to Russia for 65 gold and world map. Traded currency to America for 30 gold and world map. Traded currency to France for 1 GPT and 21 gold. Please give me feedback on these trades.



Turn 1...670 BC...Viroconium...worker-port/Cumae...spearman-legionary.

Turn 2...650 BC...Not much going on. I am fortifying the solders in the north, not too sure what else to do with them. I am also putting some in cities to then fortify.

Turn 3...630 BC...Veii...legionary-legionary.

Turn 4...610 BC...Antium...legionary-legionary. English founded Newcastle on the southern peninsula, so I founded Lutetia S/W of Rome. Is that OK?

Turn 5...590 BC...Pompeii...legionary-legionary.

Turn 6...570 BC...Cumae...legionary-legionary...Pisae...spearman-legionary...Rome...settler-settler (not sure if this is correct unit for Rome to build). Settler moving south.

Turn 7...550 BC...Hispalis...barracks-catapult.

Turn 8...530 BC...Veii...legionary-legionary.

Turn 9...510 BC...Antium...legionary-legionary.

Turn 10...490 BC...nothing of note. The Republic in 7 turns.

Our score is 368.

Here is the save.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Ankka_SG003_BC0270_01.sav

OK, I played my turns, but I forgot to keep track...

The highlights -

Founded Byzantium
Moved troops to Southern and Eastern cities in anticipation of our first invasion. Building as many legionnairies as possible. Greece is vulnerable, and with a few more troops, I think we're nearly ready for attack.

No major trades, other Civs had reached Republic first. Went through Revolution to Republic which ended on last turn, currently gold production VERY low, had to drop sliders to 30 and 10 %. This should change quickly as Republic is favored gov of Rome.

Sent Rome's next settler to the peninsula south of Vironconium, I believe he should settle on this next turn.

Made several map trades and gained a good number of gold.

Built a number of roads connecting the more distant cities.

Bablyon took the last possible spot for us on the opposite shore of the continent, it's too bad we couldn't have made it all the way across.

Several nations are trying to push settlers through our territory and I've probably angered a few by demanding they get out, including demanding removal or war on America. I believe that we may want to try taking Seattle - the rest of America is far off and it would probably be an easy city grab.

Anyway, here's a screenshot, our score is now over 430 and we've moved into 3rd place among the known nations. We need to make contact with the other continent that seems to be just off the coast of Greece. There's a few more AIs out there!

Ok in order:

The trades: The trades do look pretty reasonable IF there was no option to trade republic. If you could have traded republic even with a gpt payment, that would have been the deal to go for. Monarchy is a completely unneeded tech and not worth anything for us, but as i said, if republic was not possible, it is a nice set of trades. I am VERY happy with the peace deal.

I see you started researching republic and we will get it pretty fast. I see we are also in republic now, i like that.

Also do i see people are eagre to go to war :D
So we can get a GA now. Well, i like war too so all i can say is:
lets kick some butt :rockon:
It is a good idea to try and get some alliances though (NEVER a mutual protection though) so we wont end up us vs everyone if our opponents buy alliances.

I want to warn now already though, when building units during that GA, keep in mind the GA will end and we should then not cripple deu to upkeep costs.

I see an english city in the south, we might want to capture that as well :D.

I also see however, we forgot to build naval units and scout for nearby islands, i think we should do that now. Also should we have 1 harbor to enable trading with some nations.

We should now fight and get our GA, while we are in GA, we must prepare to get our finances right by the time the GA ends. For this, we need some size 7 cities, maybe an extra lux or 2 and maybe some marketplaces.

For research, do anything but NOT feudalism cuz that will be the first thing the AI goes for (so we can trade it from them)

I haven't downloaded the files, and thus do not know how much workers we have, but i think we should make some from cumea since it has a very good growth potential. Then we should irrigate some lands for the other cities so that they can all grow prosperously (and become size 7 for units support in republic)

I hope ankka can play and upload before friday 18:00 western european time, then i will play 1 more set of turns before i'm gone for 2 weeks :D

Corinth is also a very interesting city to take since it will grand us an extra luxury.

If Ankka can play tonight, that would be great, if not, Wacken, you're up!

If Ankka can play tonight, that would be great, if not, Wacken, you're up!

He can also play tomorrow if he can, and me friday, not that much of a hurry :D

I will be leaving today, and will need to pack stuff etc, so sorry, I can't play now... :undecide:

Ok, i have now downloaded and opened the save file.

I imeadiately noticed 2 major mistakes. If these 2 mistakes would not have been made, we could have been MUCH MUCH MUCH more powerfull.
Not talking down on anyone, just take it for advise when you play again.

1: I see clowns in almost every city. First thing i did was increase the lux slider and then set to work the clowns, the happiness from the lux slider alowed enough guys to work to keep a similar financial balance. Sometimes it might be ok to use one or 2 clowns (total for your whole civ that is) but none at all is best. I try never to use any clowns. There were lots of cities that were not growing at all because the clowns take away all the food surpluss. This really has a huge impact on the long term results for a civ.

2: There WAY TOO LITTLE workers. And seeing the crappy infrastructure, that has been so for a long time. Rule of tumb, you should always have more than 1 worker per city, preferably close to 2 per city. You should always have enough workers so that EVERY tile you work in your whole empire is completely worked. While this is not realistic when you only just fount your first 3 or 4 cities yet, it definately is so when you have more than 5 cities.
This is the number one mistake by many players, its effect is HUGE. if we would have had enough workers and all tiles worked, the science slider would probably been over 50% now instead of 30. Both growth, science and also production would have been very much better.

Above 2 problems really make all the difference in the world, really i cannot stress it enough, the difference this bigger than you can immagine. Some smaller things:

We now are in financial trouble, we are also falling back in technology while we are paying 50 gold er turn for militairy upkeep. We should have had some more marketplaces and some less units.

We have lots of units that were not attacking while our militairy strength is very much enough to conquer some things with it. In strategy games, everything you have and do not use is a waste of resources. This also is true for militairy power that you do not use.
Sure, i did not want to fight in despotism, but therefore, we should have had some less units and some more marketplaces.

I see some cities having 4 food surrplus while others have none at all. Always try to micro your cities and choose worker tasks carefully. Be sure that every city keeps growing. Growth is BY FAR the most important thing in the early game. Tile use and improvement should be more balanced.


I am sorry to say it in these words, but i will try to clean up some of the mess :D
So what to do now?:

Since we have the militairy power for it, i will go to war in order to get a GA. This GA should give us some extra possibility to fix the current problems.
I will stop much of the millitairy production and start some workers and marketplaces in order to stabalize our growth and financials for the future.
The GA will help the production of marketplaces and maybe even some libraries, but marketplaces are MUCH more important atm.
We are at the moment technologically backwards. It is very important to catch up now, but i am afraid that is gonna be very difficult, i hope peace negotiations will help solve the problems.

I am gonna look some closer and play my turns tonight and keep you updated. Please note, i am not blaming people for the mistakes, but i don't think it is in anyone's interest if i keep silent about it. This way everyone can learn from them.

Very good analysis of the game actually IMHO Wackenopenair. Constructive criticism is a big part of playing SG's and is one of the reasons playing them is the quickest and surest way to improve your game. It can be difficult to find the right words so as not to upset people, and I sympathise with you. :)

Goodjob anyway. :thumbsup:

Great advice WackenOpenAir!! I think I learned more in reading those few paragraphs then I have in months. I normally MM my cities in the early game and your suggestions are great.

I'm here to learn to be a better player, so I appreciate all of the feedback that I can get. This will help me not to make the same mistakes over again.

I'm printing out your last post for future reference...:)

Thanx for those replies, i'm glad you take it positively.

Ok, i am typing this while i am playing:

First i am getting rid of the clowns.
I increase the lux slider from 10 to 20%, 2 clowns are still needed though, but they can be taxmen/scientists. I started at -6gpt and now i am still at -6pgt without looking carefully where to put them to work yet.

If i increase it to 30%, i go to -19 gpt. 13 gpt for 2 jobs is slightly too expensive now. Only slightly though, if gold was in abundance, i maybe would pay that price. That is how important it is to have your people working and not be clowns. (4-5 gpt per job i usually pay, 6-7 only if i have gold in abundance)

I should decide who to go to war with, we are militairy superior to everyone, so all options seem to be open. Attacking the Greeks is interesting if i take the luxury from them, but don't have any techs to pay us for peace. I could attack england and america, but they only have some small towns near us and their main lands are too far away. They wont pay us much for peace if we only take these small towns. Also do i want to wait until the towns have the size or culture so that i will take them rather than destroy them.
I will probably not attack these guys for now since i am not planning to hurt my reputation in any way. attacking them now for these small villages would mean we can't go to war with them for 20 turns.

My plan is to attack france, they have some very good cities within our reach, and they are build on flat ground so they wont get a defence bonus. Also does france have the techs we want for peace. I am planning to take Chartres and Paris, maybe more if needed to make them pay techs. The distance however means it will be about 10 turns before we have those cities (and our golden age). Getting techs for peace will take even longer since they won't talk to use the first few turns after we started the war. Also would it not suprise me if we need to take a 3th city to make them pay well.

This together leads me to the following decisions:
-I was thinking about stopping research for now on engineering, i will not do so however since maybe we can have it researched by the time we negotiate peace with france.
-I will Attack greece right now for the luxuries they have. I will at least take Corinth for the silks, after that i may also go for the incense near sparta, but with their strong defenders, i am not really counting on that.
This will give us GA within a few turns and the luxury will also help us a lot.

So i start moving 4 legions and an archer from lugdunum towards Corinth, i move trough the forests since the units only have 1 move anyway, and the forests provides them defence bonus. I make sure i have no units inside their territory before declaring war, our reputation must remain spotless.

Most other units are moving northwards to attack france. They will take between 6 and 9 turns to reach the target cities. Only a few are left behind for defence (we can upgrade warriors in emergency)

I also disband a few warriors, they provide little power and we simply dont have the gold to pay their upkeep. Since i don't want our opponents to think we are weak, i won't disband too many of them though. I keep some so we can upgrade them in case of emergency.



Now is time to change the city productions.

I notice another small mistake now i want to point out. This is really a detail, but every detail does count. Ravenna is building a legion while it does not have a barracks. Hispalis is building a catapult while it DOES have a barracks. Obviously, this is the wrong way around since catapults do not benefit from being produced with a barracks. We are now building a weak legion, and the barracks is being wasted while building a catapult. Here it also counts, having things but not using them is wasting resources. It is best to dedicate each of your cities task, usually the tasks are settler/worker factory, unit factory and non hitpoints unit factory for me. You could have science or culture cities, but that does not fit in my play style, on high difficulties, science is hopeless and culture i simply don't like (besides that it is also hopeless trying to beat an AI on culture on higher difficulties).

Ok, on with the productions: I set some cities with good surplus that do not yet have more than 10 shields ready to workers, 6 workers are now in production (deu in 1,1,1,2,4,10 turns), 3 marketplaces, 1 harbor, and a bunch of granaries.

This was preturns, i will see if i should move some laborers to work other tiles, but now i will first make myself something to eat :D

Before going to make food, i decided to take a little look at where the wonders are located. I just notice the Library is owned by the french and is located in Paris. So learn from my mistakes now, and be sure to look at where the wonders are before making plans :) no need to make pretty deals in peace nogatiations, we will have the GL anyway ! So the plans are not changed by that, i wanted to take paris anyway. I will however now set science to 0 and have some cash coming in. This is nice :D

As far as the entertainers, several cities broke out in riots even at 30% on the slider. That is why I created them. Perhaps you could tell me what it was I should have done there.

hmm, when did we turn into republic?
Was that still in anarchy?
In anarchy it is indeed normal you need clowns, so i guess we turned republic your last turn and when you checked happiness the turn before ?

You are exactly right - actually, we were in anarchy for 3 turns and the cities began rioting right away. But yes, I had just gone republic on my last turn. As far as what cities are creating what, I knew that barracks helped units who were injured, but I didn't realize they had any effect while they were being created. So that's my bad. I have to be honest, I don't always understand what it is I'm looking for when I check cities, I now have a better idea.

Ok:

For the anarchy, anarchy simply is a "governement" with very some very bad things, your happiness will drop significantly when you are in anarchy.
When you revolt, you go into anarchy, at that moment your happiness drops significantly and you have to make a choise, either get clowns to stop the cities from rioting and lose food, sometimes even have people starve, or let them riot and risk losing city improvements.
If you can keep your city happy without starvation, that obviously is what you should do. Otherwise, if i have food in store, and can prevent starvation with just 1 turn rioting, i would do that since then there is no risk of losing improvents (only happens with prolonged rioting) If there really is no option to prevent both, it is usually best to save your improvements and have the city starve a little.
In this case, we have been lucky with a 3 turn anarchy, the clowns in anarchy are good.
As soon as you get the republic, you regain a normal level of happiness and the first thing to do is get rid of the clowns.

If you have barracks in a city, every unit produced in that city will from then on be veteran. This increases your strength (and thus your opponents fearing you), your chance to win battles and the amount of elite units you have and thus chances for leaders. Also are veterans much more worthy being upgraded. Once you get used of producing veteran units, you never want to see a regular one again :D

Deciding what to produce in a city is a rather difficult process. It depends on both your long and short term strategy plans. As i said, it is best to have your cities be dedicated to a goal, not just build everything in them. Make sure you have the optimum results with as little city improvements as possible.

When you check what tiles you use for your city and what work your workers do, keep in mind the following things:
-Growth is important, make sure all your cities keep growing prosperously.
-Target for a number of shields that can be multiplied to precisely produce what you want to produce. For example, producing anything with a production of 9 shields will almost always mean you are wasting shields. If you build a spearmen for example, it will take 3 turns in which you produce 27 shields = 7 wasted. 10 shields on the other hand means you will never waste any of them (curragh being the only exeption). The same goes for food more or less, 5 surplus is a beatifull number as nothing will be wasted, 4 is so as well if you dont have a granary, but if you do have a granary, 3 or 4 surplus means you will have some food wasted. In early game, food is the most important resource, then shields, then commerce. The exception is that 10th shield, if you need to reduce your food surrplus by 1 to gain that 10th shield, that is definately worth it unless it reduces your surrplus to 0. (never have surpluss 0 unless your city can't grow larger anyway)

DAMN, i was typing everything while i was playing but closed my explorer and thus lost all my text when some anoying girl started talking to me over msn and i tried to close it with alt f4 :(.

So i lost info on the first 4 turns. I will now keep it short:

I conquered Corinth without losses, there was only 1 defender.
Got a golden age. Other group of units is moving towards paris.
Corinth group is moving on for the nxt luxury, but one legion was killed by a swordsmen on the way. remaining 2 legions and an archer are gonna try taking it.

I produced about 8 workers, and am now building marketplaces and granaries in most cities. Also 2 libraries.

Rome made its last settler for now, it started a marketplace after that. Enough settlers for now.

Sorry for the delay, but i just went out to have a drink, gotta work tomorrow, too tired to finish my turns now. I will do so tomorrow when i get home from work. Expect my upload around 1900 (+1 GMT) friday.

Ok, i Finished my turns.

Sorry i do not have a detailed timeline.


Economic growth:
After a bunch of workers, i started investing in a good future by building markets, granaries and libraries.
I set science to 0 with the prospect of conquering the GL, so there is quite some gold in cash now and a nice gpt income. Looks are decieving though, everything is not as good as it looks. most of this is caused by the GA. be prepared for it to end in about 10/11 turns. From that time on, the city improvements should be profitable enough to provide a stable economy.



Conquest:
Sorry, after starting war with both greece and france, i am already back to peace with both again. Sorry for doing all the war guys, i know you are eager to fight :mischief:

From greece, i was just able to have both of their luxuries. After Corinth was easy, Sparta was just barely taken. The last attacking unit had one hp left. With one guy that came behind and became elite by taking an archer on his way down, i took Pharsalos (that leet guy attacked 2 turns and killed 2 defenders all by himself :goodjob: )

We need to prevent losing them to culture now, i stated some temples, but only rushed it last turn in sparta. I did so in spart because that has the highest risk and it contains a luxury.In the others i am not too sure as what to actually build yet, the temples are kinda just placeholders for now, just change around productions in them when you want.

At the end of my turns, i also bought a luxury for a tech America. We have a total of 5 luxuries now. The lux slider is down to 0, and there are many happy people to provide us score points. :p

For peace, i wanted one thing: a city on the other island. When i saw a barbarian moving close to it, i rushed a defender. I demanded that city because it will give us a place from where we can now start scouting for the other civ's and because later on, it will provide us a landing place for our forces when we will conquer that island. :rockon: (my favorite smiley)
I think it is worth it to rush a few barbarians (after producing one shield normally) for scouting. Unfortunately we dont have horses there.



Paris:
paris runs a big risk to culture flip. I do not yet want to give up hope though. there are no foreign tiles in its radius. I think there is a chance we can keep it.
For this however, we need to starve it to size one and maybe rush a temple inside of it to keep away the foreign borders. Temple is optionally and depends on the plans with Paris:

We could give away Paris just before the discovery of education (so after the discovery of Theorlogy that is). Then we could retake it later on if we happen to drop behing in technology (in this case we should never research education though) If we do this, i wouldn't do any investments like a temple in Paris.
The other option is to just keep Paris and handle it like one of our own. I know many people see the retaking thing as cheating, i think the GOTM rules do not forbid it, and i myself am neutral in this. So i will leave this choise open to you guys.

Anyway, be sure to check Paris every turn from now. Put some units inside it, and make sure there will never be any of the laborers working a tile. Just make them all taxmen or something so the city will starve.



Science:
This depends on what happens to Paris. If we are gonna keep Paris (either short or permanent) I think it is good to set science to 0 for a while now. It will give us a good cash flow while we get our techs anyway, and later on, the cash can be used to research and get ahead of the others with science at 100%.

If we happen to lose Paris to a culture flip however, we need to start researching ourselves now at full power. :scan:

I chose to set science to 0 now and what out a while to see what is gonna happen to Paris. It wont hurt us whatever happens because the cast we are making now can always be brought back to science by researching at 100%.

So if things go well with Paris, just keep science at 0 until either the GL becomes obsolete or until we are so filthy rich we have no idea what to do with all that money. :p

It is important from now on to try get gpt for our techs. We should check all our opponents for gpt availability every turn. This not only to enhance our income, but also to cripple their income, science and ability to trade with others. [pimp]



Militairy:
After losing some warriors and not producing any units for 20 turns, we are still Strong compared to all civ's except Rusia (Average). So there is no big hurry to start producing units again. but the unit production can gradually be restarted again. :ar15:

Depending on what happens to Paris; if Paris does not flip, we can be filthy rich by keeping our science at 0 for a while more. We could use this money by now (after the city improvements are comlete) producing horsemen and upgrading them to knights later on. If we lose it, we should be carefull spending money on upgrading.



City Production:
I started producing workers until i had a decent number. We also gained some foreign workers. From now on just keep building some more ocasionally. After that, i started producing City improvements as they are a good investment for the future and should get our economy back online. It looks very prosperous at this moment, but don't forget that will change when the golden age ends. :cry:

I suggest building a library and market in all of our good cities. They are pretty busy doing so. After those are done, units can be produced again. Barracks should be present in most of them, but be sure to check for it when you start building units again.

Do not forget to build aquaducts in time where they are needed, antium started one already, be sure to finish them in other cities where needed before they get size 7.

In the border cities that are more corrupt, i did not start barracks. They can build trebuchets instead of normal millitairy units and not need a barracks. Also did i not start markets there, but a library could be done for expanding the cultural borders. (and defending against possible cultural influence)


Would be nice if everyone gives his oppinion on the Paris issue.

Hope i siad everything i wanted to say. My mind is pretty chaotic sometimes so i might say things double and forget about others :D

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Ankka_SG003_BC0050_01.SAV

Oh and just after saving and uploading, i noticed i am producing a Legionary again. This does not mean i think no marketplaces and libraries are needed anymore, i would have changed it if i hadn't saved and oploaded already.

Of course, feel free to build some units here and there, but please keep building the needed city improvements as well.

Oh a little detail about the workers. I started some irrigations, some are for direct use, others are to bring water to remote cities (in the north espescially). My goal is to have enough irrigated to have the cities work their hill tiles while still maintaining a 2 or more (preferably more) surplus.

Ok it looks like I'm back in action. So this means I won't have to skip the next turn.

Oh by the way, another note.

I just am reading about the differences for ptw. I never played ptw, so dont know, but it seems the FP works like in the old days and it can make a second good area?
In that case, i started it at the wrong place, and the build queue should be changed. I started it there with my c3c experience in mind.

Also, does city ring placement still work in the ptw we are playing? Would be a shame if it does and we did not make use of it :(

Ring of Placement does apply and yes it is a shame we will have to deal with it.

got it

Thank you for the comments WackenOpenAir.

I will do what I can to get the economy back in shape.

Nice analysis and turns, Wacken... gotta read those better a little later. :)

I'm back.

Is everyone still alive?
Is it known who will play next?

well anyway, i'll be ging in 3 hours now, so see ya all next week :D

Wacken !!!

:rockon: :beer: :band: [party] :viking:

Okay, bye, Wacken. Have fun in your funny simulation thingy about something called Real Life. ;) :)

I think Shoe is playing now. :)

I'm still alive; just waiting on Shoe for the hand off.

Turn 0 50BC: decided to try to save Paris. Moving, set idle workers to upgrade worked city tiles.

IBT Sparta Temple-> Harbor; Rome Market -> Library; Herakleia Spear -> Harbor: Americans are building Art of War

Turn 1 30BC: Moving. Upgrading worked tiles; Check trades nothing worth doing.

IBT acquired Invention; Hispilis Granary -> Library; Viroconium Galley -> Galley; French are building Leonardo’s Workshop.

Turn 2 10BC: Ditto

IBT Paris Market-> Library; Cumae Library->Market; Ravenna Library->Market; Lutetia Granary->Library

Turn 3 10AD: Ditto

IBT Sparta Harbor->Market; Veii Library -> Legionary; Neapolis Library-> Legionary; Herakila Harbor->Pike

Turn 4 30AD: decide to hurry library in Paris; WM to all for 42 gold and maps

IBT Germany building Leonardo’s workshop

Turn 5 50AD: Paris Library -> Worker; Hire clown in Cumae and Brundisium; hurry market in Cumae

IBT we get Theology; Cumae Market -> Court; Viroconium Galley-> Market

Turn 6 70AD: upgrading.

IBT we get Chivalry; Antium Aqueduct->Market; Russia and Germany building Sistine chapel

Turn 7 90AD: Neapolis Legionary -> court (not sure about this so feel free to change)

IBT Rome Library->Sun Tzu’s(didn’t know what to do here); we lost Pharsolas to the Greeks via culture flip

Turn 8 110AD: upgrades to tiles; Theology to France for WM, 3gold, 10 gpt; monotheism to Greece for WM and 20gold; Chivalry to Russia for WM, 30 gold, 3gpt, velieris?; Bombyx to Germany for WM, 5 gold, 4gpt

IBT Veii temple->Legionary; Greeks building Sun Tzu’s;

Turn 9&10 lost power after saving the game but before saving this log.


Score 602


http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Ankka_SG003_AD0150_01.SAV

sorry about the delay had trouble with my internet connection for a couple of days

No problem. :)


EL_OSO is up IIRC.

I just downloaded the save.

FYI-I won't be able to play my turns until Saturday......so skip me if you don't want to wait....Thanks

Turn Log:


Turn 0: 150 AD Assigned some worker tasks; otherwise uneventful.

Turn 1: 170 AD Same as above. GA ended.

Turn 2: 190 AD Same as above.

Turn 3: 210 AD Same as above. I'm continuing with city

improvements for now.

Turn 4: 230 AD Same as above.

Turn 5: 250 AD Made some luxury trades with Germany, Russia, and

England for gpt.

Turn 6: 260 AD Two of our England and Germany have Education. That

means our Great Library will soon disappear. We have a tech lead

on most of the other civs right now, but they don't have enough

gold worthy of trading.

Turn 7: 270 AD The Great Library is obsolete. We were set on

gunpowder and I decided to leave it at that tech and bumped the

rate up to 90%. I traded Education to the Russians for 30 gp and 6

gpt. We have 2675 gp at the moment, the net effect is -50 gpt for

the tech in 5 turns.

Turn 8: 280 AD Traded Theology to the Americans for 40 gp and 4

gpt. Checked science slider and left it at 90% for the moment.

Turn 9: 290 AD Nothing eventful.

Turn 10: 300 AD Traded Iron to the Americans for 40 gp and 2 gpt.

Left the slider where it was since it wasn't providing a benefit

to lower it. We lost Gems from America, but they wanted Chivalry

and Iron for them so I went for the gpt instead of the tech trade.

Our score is 705 at this point.


Download the save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Ankka_SG003_AD0300_01.SAV

I can't play till the weekend either, so if ankka wants to play tomorrow, go ahead, then jeff can go saturday and I'll follow...I think that's the order..

I think we can wait for Jeff. :)

WackenOpenAir
shoe35
EL OSO
Jeff1787 - just played
waitingtoderail - UP
Ankka - on deck




Turn 1...310 AD...Paris...worker-Temple/Cumae...courthouse-knight.

Turn 2...320 AD...Lugdunum...library-knight/Antium...pikeman-knight. Gunpowder research is complete, now chemistry in 7.

Turn 3...330 AD...Traded world maps with England and they threw in 9 gold.

Turn 4...340 AD...Pisae...marketplace-knight. Someone built The Art of War, so Rome is now building Leonardo's Workshop. Traded world maps with Greece and they threw in 25 gold. Traded Education to America for world map, 12 gpt and 43 gold.

Turn 5...350 BC...Hispalis...marketplace-knight/Neapolis...library-knight/Byzantium...granary-library/Viroconium...forum-library.

Turn 6...360 AD...not much going on.

Turn 7...370 AD...Cumae...knight-/Veii...knight-/Lutetia...marketplace-library/Syracuse...library-marketplace.

Turn 8...380 AD...not much going on.

Turn 9...390 AD...Antium...knight-knight/Chartres...catapult-catapult. Chemistry is completed now metalurgy in 8. Traded chemistry and 200 gold to England for astronomy. Traded chemistry to Russia for furs, world map, 84 gold and 5 gpt. Traded chemistry to France for world map, 83 gold and 29 gpt.

Turn 10...400 AD...Lugdunum...knight-knight.

Our score is 816.

Here is the save.

Hi there, back from wacken. (wrecked my car so that was not so good)

wont be able to play this week.

I won't be able to play until at least Wednesday - please skip me this round....

Ok... so I'm up in 2 SG's. Oh well, let's see when I can get to this, should be today though.

Read mad-bax's post.

Nevermind what I said before, a wait might do good. :)

OK. Lets try to restore order here. The team now consists of 5 members, and the summer holiday season has played havoc with many of the teams.

I suggest the team takes a deep breath, and chill for a few days. Let waitingtoderail play on Wednesday and Thursday, and then Wackenopenair can play after that at the beginning of next week. After this few days are behind you it should be possible to settle back into a pattern.

If you guys need any help in keeping the game going, just contact me via PM and I'll help out as much as I can.

Don't have the opportunity to watch the save files yet, but science in 5/7 turns and increasing gpt deals looks good to me.

During the coming 20 turns, i think we need to prepare for a bit more conquest. This means we need to decide now who we will conquer first and make sure we make no new 20 turn deals with them so that we can go to war when the current deals expire without reputation problems.

Also did i not see any information about the other continent. Are scouting units rushed in there? anything discovered?

All I noticed on the new continent was a very large barbarian population from the galleys that passed close to the shores. Greece was having a fun time dealing with them.

As far as a good candidate for war, I think removing the greeks from the continent we're on is a good idea. It will secure our southern flank and allow us to focus our war efforts in a northerly direction.

I thikn we haven't discussed this: What victory are we heading for?

I thikn we haven't discussed this: What victory are we heading for?

I vote domination :D

Domination... not a bad idea, propably the fastest victory now.

Will dominating our own continnet be enough, or will we need to go to war over the seas?

Cant say for sure without having seen the whole map, but chances of our island being 66% are very small i think.

Playing domination style is also best for score, also if later on we dicide to go for space or UN.

All right, I'll try to play this tomorrow....

I'm back home and available to play as soon as its my turn !

I'll be on vacation for about a week. :cool:

All right, I didn't keep any kind of log, so here goes -

I took Seattle from the Americans. Very little fight, gained 6 or so workers. Waited 5-6 turns, made peace, got 10 gold and a world map. Several trades made, including Metalluragy to the Germans for 47 gold and 22pt. I've moved a good portion of our army south in anticipation of war with Greece. However, we are a bit weak on our Northern borders, please work on that in the next go round. Greece has at least swordsmen, we have just made our first musketman.

I bought a couple of techs, banking and music theory, so I dropped the slider a bit to build back up our gold. Except for Russia and Babalyon, we seem to be ahead of everyone else in techs, and we're neck and neck with them.

So it's my theory that that land isn't another continent at all, but just a narrow strip running the entire length of the map. What's on the other side? My guess is another continent. So domination will be tough. I think it's very doable, though.

Built a bunch of new roads and mines. I have a couple workers in enemy territory making roads. There are also two settlers moving towards the southernmost city (can't think right now) on the east coast, where a caravel awaits them. We should probably put more defense on the island city where Greece has the edge.

Anyway, heres the save and a screenshot. I'll probably take a bunch of flak, but I'm trying here!

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Ankka_SG003_AD0500_01.SAV

Ok, just home and being drunk. I will download it tonight and take a look etc, but i'll play tomorrow when my head is clear again.

Ok, just taking a look at the safe file.

A lot of yellow numbers on city size, indicating the cities arent growing. They lack aquaducts. It is very improtant to keep cities growing, so first thing when i am gonna play the turns is build aquaducts where needed.
Also some yellow numbers for smaller cities, will see what i can do to help those. Every city must keep growing.

i lower luxury from 30 to 10% and increase science to 70%. +8gpt remaining, tech in 3 turns.

i am not very happy with the current research path though. We dont need any of the techs in this optianal branch. I will complete printing press for trading it, but i ask you guys not to research demo and not even pay anything for it in trade. We dont need it. We don't need free artisry either. Economics is the only optional tech thats really interesting.
it is best to just research towards the next age and have the AI research the optionals for us.

I see there are still 4 french guys in paris. This worries me, we can still lose it to culture flip. I would have liked to starve it to only 1 guy before growing our own people in it.

Corinth is building millitairy units without a barracks. We should always only produce veterans. Some other cities seem to have produced regulars as well.

I see we don't have treaties with greece and babylon. I expect to start war with greece in my turns. England should probably be next, so i wont start any trades with them.

In the first 4 turns i hope to make a decision to proceed with cavalry or to go for cannons. Then decide whether to research MT. Seeing we are most powerfull nation on this map, most likely i will go for MT and hope to conquer some things with cavalry the coming centuries.

I see we are not getting any gpt deals anymore now. I hope our reputation is not harmed yet ?

Well, I got gpt for metallurgy...

OK, well, on free artistry, that may have been a mistake, but I think it's good to have things to trade...

My bad on the lack of a barracks, I'm not used to looking for it, I'll try and remember in the future.

I think things are going all right overall. :D

You want to play before me, Wacken?

I'm up in other SG's too I didn't get to play yesterday.

Oh you play, i thought in mad bax post stood i play after waiting.
Just go and play, i didnt play any turns yet, only looked at the situation.

So i'll be waiting till you are done.

And waitingtoderail, yes i think we are doing pretty reasonable alltogether.

No, you play, I've got a pretty heavy SG turnset to play...

Ok then :).

After starting some aquaducts, disbanding some warriors and increasing science spendings, i look at the opportunities for war.
Knights (attack 4) against Hopplites (defence 3) is not good for us, we would lose too many knights attacking greece now.
Other nations cannot be attacked because of the 20 turn deals we have with them. Except for babylon, but those are too far away too attack.

Before attacking greece, Cavalry or a large amount of bombardment units are needed. The knights we have and are being produced can be upgraded when MT is researched. That should make a decent cavalry army.

I am not gonna make any 20 turn deals with england and france unless they are extremely good ones. I want them to be available for destruction.

The Island on the right indeed looks like just a stretch that seperates the map. Also, there are mountains on the right side of it so that cities cannot be build on its border.
We were supposed to cross the ocean on the other side of the map with scuicide galleys. Our galley has moved all around the map, but it would have been better if it'd tried to cross the map when passing the western most point of our island. I will now move the galley with settler we have on the eastern side completely around the island.

turn1: Leo's is built, i must change to Bach's.

I swich to temple in Seattle so that its borders can grow to include the irrigated grasslands. Else it cannot grow past size 2.

turn3: Well, england pays me 40 gpt + 94 gold for printing press. The deal is good enough for me to take it and not go to war within 20 turns. (only 5 more than the longest standing deal with them)
France is also willing to pay gpt, but with the 13 gpt they offer, i think i rather destroy them when in 5 turns our current deals expire.
It would be prefered to have the germands ally against france and hope for them to conquer the single city on the other island.

Turn5: I am moving all knights to paris and start a barracks there to upgrade the knights to cavalry. From there we can remove France from our island.

Some AI have navigation. It would be nice to trade it before attempting to cross the ocean with our caravel or maybe we can get it for peace with france (after we started war with them)

Last turn Phisics was too expensive because only Russia had it and Navigation was only available for gold. I did not buy navigation because it looks like even that would not be enough to get physics and no other trades can be made with it.

Rome cannot complete any wonder. It has to lose 300 ! shields swiching to University. Never build wonders in your capital, you must have palace as a backup.

Cavalry is ready for attack. Declare before entering french territory in order to save reputation.

We have a slight problem on technology. I am unsure on what to research now. It stands at phisics now, but no research is done for that yet, so you can change it to something else without losing anything. If anyone can say which of the now available techs is least researched by the AI, we could go for that and hope to trade it for physics rather than waste time researching a tech the AI already has.

The caravel with settler and knight is supposed to cross the ocean. Remember, navigation alows it to travel the ocean without danger. I did not buy navigation yet because traveling that ocean is the only use for it (no trading opportunities with it) so we can buy it when the caravel gets there or wait for a better trade opportunity to get it. (Would be nice if the tech we are gonna research will get us both physics and navigation)

Did you finish your turns?

Seems like you did.

Ok... who's up then.



WackenOpenAir
shoe35 - up
EL OSO - on deck
Jeff1787 - just played
waitingtoderail
Ankka

Didn't you swap turn orders with WackenOpenAir? If so, that means you're up unless you plan on skipping which means Shoe will play.

yeap, I was planning on skipping myself due to the starting of school, other SG turns...

Okay, got it.

hope I can do well

Here is the save.
found the other cont. and 4 more civs.


http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Ankka_SG003_AD0700_01.SAV


600AD Turn0: Put idle workers to work

IBT English building Magellan’s Voyage. Russians finish Magellan’s Voyage

610AD Turn1: Declare war on France, Take Tours, lose a cavalry to a spear, promote cavalry to elite unharmed. Take Orleans promote two cavs to elite. Set up for attack on Rheims. Eliminate lone swordsmen and archer.

IBT Syracuse Forum -> University.

620AD Turn2: Take over of Rheims, capture Leonardo’s Workshop. Prepare for offensive against Marsalles.

630AD Turn3: Take over Marsalles, acquire a GL. Plan to rush Adam Smiths ASAP. Switch science to econ. Will switch back to Physics after Econ.

640AD Turn4: Capture Lyons, starving several French Towns, need to get Nav soon.

IBT Brundisium Aqueduct -> Port

650AD Turn5: Reposition for offensive against Liz. Give peace to Joan for Navigation, 30 gold, and a worker.

IBT Lutetia Port -> coastal fortress

660AD Turn6: establish contact with Aztecs, Trade WM, contact with Greece, Russia for TM, 40 gold, contact with India, Irquois, and Japan. Trade Contact with Iroquois to Russia for WM and 50 gold; Trade contact with Iroquois and India to Russia for 110 gold and WM. Trade contact with the Greeks to Japan for 20gold 6 gpt and WM.

IBT Seattle Temple -> Forum

670AD Turn7: Rush Smith’s in Rome

680AD Turn8: Yawn

690AD Turn9: same

700AD Turn10: same


Score 1124

Nice job. :)


WackenOpenAir
shoe35 - just played
EL OSO - UP!
Jeff1787 - on deck
waitingtoderail
Ankka

Ok I got the turn! Any thoughts before I proceed? It looks like I'm the peacetime commander again unless you guys don't mind a reputation hit.

Reputation hit... no way, don't break deals.

Ok, i took a short look at the save file:

Nice to see France removed so fast.

I also see we have a nice army, i think we can destroy the english when the 20 turn deal expires in 4 turns. In fact, i think we have the power to conquer much of our continent.

Also do i see one thing that is against my playing principles.
i see both banks and universities being build.
IMO, in civ you need to make choise. To research or not to research. If you choose not to go research, you just maximise your gold income, trade techs, sell techs, buy techs, conquer techs and steal techs.

I don't care what we do, but as i explain, i think a choise needs to be made.

Also do we stand at a point where we can focus on our (domination) victory.
It is possible to stop all research, go all out war and decimate our opponents one by one. It seems like france was easy, and england will probably be so as well. I personally don't feel a hurry conquering greece though, they have some cities on hills and probably many (since they are old and cheap) good defenders. I prefer leaving them for a while. I think conquering our own continent is almost within reach.

There are also some possibilities for gpt deals, but if we choose to start dominating the world, be carefull whom you trade to. We might want to destroy 2 or 3 more civs withing 20 turns.

England is only 4 more turns, i think you can DESTROY them, or at least some of them in those 6 turns :D

Also, keep in mind our future conquests, expect at most 10 turns per civ, moving up northwards. Would be nice if you don't make 20 turn deals with the civs we will meet if we move northwards with a speed of 10 turns per civ.

I thikn no research is good enough. Build only cash stuff.

As for the reputation, there is a point where we should drop it and just abuse our oppenents by getting techs for peace only to destroy them the turn after, but i think it's a little too early for that.
Before doing that, i would like to wait until we have good prospect of conquering the other content. At this point, that is not yet the case.

Ok, I'll focus on moving the army towards England to pounce on them as soon as peace expires. :D

What causes a rep hit? It seems that I get them all the time in my own games and I just end up playing an evil totalitarian.

Some of the obvious are breaking 20 turn deals. Sometimes they're caused by being in a MPP with too many civs and you're forced to attack one of them.

Does moving your forces through their territory without a RoP create one too?

thanks,

el oso

Does moving your forces through their territory without a RoP create one too?
el oso

Not if you dont attack them. Just make sure there are no units in its territory when you declare.

Just dont go into MPP's at all, ever.

also, see the difference between reputation and attitude. The AI may hate you, but that is less important. Its your reputation that decides if you get gpt deals.

About attitude there is an article:
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3acad_ai_attitude.shtml

What if they ask you to leave and there isn't a <move automatically option> and you just click the "That's it, goodbye" option instead of promising to move your forces?

What if they ask you to leave and there isn't a <move automatically option> and you just click the "That's it, goodbye" option instead of promising to move your forces?

I don't think that is a problem. I always just promise to move them :)

I don't think it makes a difference. If it would, someone would have sai about it somewhere.

Maybe C3C is different. I've gotten bad rep hits for no apparent reason on a number of occasions and I'm just trying to figure out what I did to get it.

Turn 0: 700 AD Turn received. Trade Iron for Ivory with Japan.

Turn 1: 710 AD Trade Incense, Silks, and Spices to Russia for 21 gpt.

Turn 2: 720 AD Nothing happening.

Turn 3: 730 AD Nothing happening.

Turn 4: 740 AD Did some micromanaging. Found clowns where they weren't needed and either put them back to work or changed them to scientists. Our gpt with England is over and I had to move the science slider down to compensate for the 40 gpt loss.

Turn 5: 750 AD Decided to keep building units for the upcoming war with England. Might think about some trades with Germany when the gpt runs out in 3 & 8 turns. I'm not going to trade Theory of Gravity for Democracy, but I'm hoping someone will have Magnetism. I changed the science slider so we have a positive income and research Magnetism on our own in 8 turns. It's the last tech we need to advance to the Industrial age.

Turn 6: 760 AD Terrible News... Marseille flipped to the Babylonians. It looks like the AI was researching the Theory of Gravity because its not available for trade now. Other than that, nothing else happened.

Turn 7: 770 AD Continued to move troops into position. Bumped science slider up to try and get Magnetism before the AI. France contacted us and requested Theory of Gravity for a World map. I told Joan to shove it. She only has 68 gp and I think the tech is worth more than that.

Turn 8: 780 AD Traded Saltpeter for Furs to Russia

Turn 9: 790 AD Traded Silks to Germany for 20 gpt. Game crashed while I was at the Foreign Advisor screen. Argh!!!! Fortunately, I found the auto save and only had to redo a few worker turns here.

Turn 10: Not much happening here. Saved the game for the next player. We have 3 stacks ready to attack England. Two in the north and one in the south.


http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Ankka_SG003_AD0800_01.SAV

Good job. :)


WackenOpenAir
shoe35
EL OSO - UP!
Jeff1787 - UP!
waitingtoderail - on deck
Ankka

WackenOpenAir
shoe35
EL OSO
Jeff1787 - just played
waitingtoderail - UP
Ankka - on deck




Turn 1...810 AD...Captured Warwick without any casualties.

Turn 2...820 AD...Preparing to attack Newcastle and Nottingham.

Turn 3...830 AD...Captured Nottingham and Newcastle, no casualties. Moving toward London.

Turn 4...840 AD...Still moving toward London.

Turn 5...850 AD...Germany declared war and attacked Rheims, no casualties. I am moving cavalry toward that area. Traded physics to America for 23 gold and 12 gpt. Traded physics and military traditon to Babylon for democracy.

Turn 6...860 AD...Captured Hastings, lost 1 cavalry. Traded magnetism to America for free artistry and 6 gold.

Turn 7...870 AD...Babylon declared war on us....yikes!!!

Turn 8...880 AD...Orleans was captured by the Babylonians. Captured back Orleans with no casualties. Captured Uruk in the south from Babylon with no casualties and got a leader and created an army. Starting moving the army north.

Turn 9...890 AD...Iroquois declared war on us.

Turn 10...900 AD...Captured Akkad from the Babylonians in the east with no casualties. Captured London and lost 3 legends and 1 cav. Then got a peace treaty and they gave us steam power. I hope that wasn't a mistake!! Captured Munich with no casualties and got a leader and created an army. Babylon will sign a peace treaty. I'll let the next player decide what to do. Also, not sure what to research next, so the next guy can decide. Russia and Germany have nationalism. Also, we can trade steam power for gpt if we want to, before the next turn. Altogether we captured 8 cities and didn't lose too many men. We lost Orleans but won it back on the same turn.

Please some comments.

Our score is 1374.

Here is the save.

2 MGLs within 2 turns is sweet!

Good job!

Yeah, looks like a fine job. :goodjob:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Ankka_SG003_AD1000_01.sav

Played turns - highlights

Lots of war weariness and several cities rioted at various times, even with slider up to 40 or 50.

Luncatorium flipped to Aztecs.

Lost 1 calvary in fighting at Marseilles.
Captured Ellipi.

Germany was about to attack Gonzominum, Herakleia and Munich. As I wanted to concentrate on Babylon, I paid them 40 gold to go away.

Took heavy losses at Marseilles - 2 calvary & 1 knight, before capturing the city.

Lost a few skirmishes outside the city, 1 calvary, 1 musketman, and one knight.

Made peace with France and get 115 gold plus world map.

Rioting gets more frequent, so I make peace with Babylon for a minor amount of gold (forgot to write down amount, but I think it was about 40).

Gozmonium flips to Greece.

I've begun to move fighters in place against Greece. I did a little scouting - the best defenders in the cities to the northeast are spearmen! It should be relatively easy to roll over Greece.

There's probably way too many clowns. I turned a few into scientists.

Our score is 1524. We've fallen behind the other nonvariant teams. :cry:

Ok... :)


WackenOpenAir - UP!
shoe35 - on deck
EL OSO
Jeff1787
waitingtoderail
Ankka

HI, everyone.

I have just been hired and need to be away for three weeks.

I will check in as I can but will be unable to play.

Good luck I am sure you will all do well.

Hi there, just back from another festival, will look at the game and everything tomorrow.

Ok, there it goes:

I see quite large cities in the conquered area's. They should not get any improvements like libraries though, that is a complete waste. I'll just have them build artillery and settlers.

Settlers should bui build to fill in the gaps in the conquered area's asap, they can also be rush bought.

Don't have too many (or any at all) units in cities with high flip risk.

In the conquered area, tile improvement is unimportant for the corrupt cities. Only do we need to build a railroad infrastructure asap to move our armies, then we need to railroad every tile in our old homeland.

Preturn:

I move the lux slider down from 50 to 10%, gaining 257 gpt. Some marketplaces are started in not totally corrupt cities that have problems with happiness or will soon have. Corrupt (conquered) cities get clowns.

Since science is going well atm, and the research was started already anyway, i research industrialisation in 4 turns now. After that i will reevaluate.

I change productions in all conquered cities further away than paris (fully corrupt) to settlers. I might rush some later.
Also change to cannons in some cities without barracks.

I build embassies to check out babylon and greece. Babylon has riffles, we should not attack those without a good number of artillery.
Greece is defended by rifles.

I move stacks of units outside conquered cities so we dont lose them in possible city flips.
Moving cannons and cavalry north to prepare an attack on babylon.

Turn1:
Moving some more troops to greek borders.
Since just about everyone in history who tried to conquer europe or more crumbled after having 2 fronts, i am kinda in doubt but lets go for it :D. While preparing war against babylon in the north, i declare on greece.

Conquer Thermoplea at the cost of 1 knight.
Conquer Pharsalos.
Conquer Mycenea

Turn2:
Aztecs declare on us when i decline to give them steam power. Good thing is they are on a continent far away. We probably wont see much of them for a while. This is not gonna interfere with our wars.

Lose one cav in an attempt to take Athens. Also one retreat. City not yet taken.

Turn3:
Oops, i'm a nuthead, worker captured at the lone city on the long island.
Conquer Athens.
(When loading armies, i advise to only put fast or slow units in one army, not together as not to waste the speed of the cavalry.)
Conquer Knossos
Conquer Argos at the cost of one cavalry

Turn4:
Conquer Rhodes
I lose a cav and damage 3 others in an attempt to take Delphi
Conquer Deplhi at the cost of one cav.

Turn5:
Peace with Iroquois hoping that will help combatting war wearines.

Turn6:
War against Babylon is hopeless. After shooting 10 cannons at Babylon city, only 1 hit. Meanwhile a 14 HP army attacks and kills the rifle with only 4 hp left. I am not gonna waste cavalry by attacking their cities. :(
I will keep standing my army next to their city though and bombard a little. Maybe kill some loose units or get some luck with the bombardments.

Turn7:
Conquer Ephesus. Greeks are of our continent.
Greeks want peace and they give me a vilage for it, but they refuse to give nationalism. I take the deal.

Its time to go sleep now. I upload after 7 turns played.

For near future:
-Get all cities conected by RR.
-Move forces northward
-Build many more cannons and some musketmen, but no more cavalry. When artillery is available (we might wanna speed up research for that) we can upgrade the cannons.

Are you aware that I had just made peace with Bablyon? Our reputation is gone - or is that the plan?

Oh no, sorry i was not aware, i thought i had looked in the diplomacy and saw no deals. Must have looked wrong :(

Ouch, i feel stupid.....

Well, i guess next played can take a look to see if we can still get any gpt somewhere, but i guess not since i could already not get any at the beginning of my turns, so it can only be worse now.

Think that makes it time to totally trash our reputation and do without it from now?
It would be a bit too early, but i doubt if it's usefull to keep whats left of the reputation now.

Oh, well, everybody makes mistakes. :)


WackenOpenAir - just played
shoe35 - UP!
EL OSO - on deck
Jeff1787
waitingtoderail
Ankka

Since Shoe35 won't be around for a while does this mean I'm up?

doesn't wack have more turns?

i would think so, but he said he was going to upload after 7 turns played.

Yeah, i'm a bit busy lately, don't always have time, and was too tired. I had to go sleep so i just uploaded after 7.
EL_OSO's turn now i'd say.

I know Wacken is a good player, but 10 turns is 10 turns....sounds a bit primadonna like to me...I don't like it.......

I'm sorry, if you guys want me to play all 10, i will.
I just uploaded it after 7 so that you guys don't need to wait until i can play the remaining 3.

Sorry for being confusing.

For now however, i am asuming EL_OSO started his turns.

I haven't started anything yet. Am I supposed to wait, play 7, 10 or 13 turns?
I probably won't be able to get to this until tomorrow afternoon sometime so if Wackenopenair wants to play his remaining 3 turns, go for it.

If I see nothing has changed in 24 hours from now, I'll download the file and play 10 turns from where it is unless directed to otherwise.

I think it would be fine to play 10 turns, it doesn't matter so much if the round doesn't end excactly on the turn it should... .:)

I think it would be fine to play 10 turns, it doesn't matter so much if the round doesn't end excactly on the turn it should... .:)

No, the turns when it is uploaded do not matter.
Already early in the sgotm there were differences in upload dates between teams.

However since now EL_OSO states he wont play for 24 hours, i will play my remaining 3 turns and hope that makes jeff1787 and everyone happy.

I will complete this within a few hours.

Ok, so i did those 3 more turns:

turn7:
-Trade Medicine from America for Industrialisation.
-Sell Medicine to France for 280 gold + 31 gpt (where are they gonna get 31 gpt with only 1 city :confused: )
-Sell Industry to germans for 1090 gold
-Buy Electricity from Russia for Industrialisation + 960 gold
-Get Nationalism from england for Electricity + Industrialisation

Research on replacable part at 80%, due in 9 turns. IMO this should be the last thing we research.

Turn8:
-Upgrade most or all Musketmen to riffles this and next 2 turns.
-Disband non elete obsolete Legionaires.
-Sign peace again to stop war weariness and allow a 0% lux slider.

Turn9:
Aztecs and Amerca sign alliance against us. No real danger here, only 1 aztec galley in the south.

Turn10:
Sign peace with aztec, they throw in 25 gpt, i throw in Industrialisation.

As the realroad network is starting to grow into existence, i am moving almost all units northwards except for a few in the south eastern area where RR is still some decades away. When realroads are ready, cities don't need to be defended anymore, a small interception force can then use the RR to cover the whole empire.

Forces are now gathering to move to New York, but if it seems to hard, it is not so important to take it now already. We will soon have the ability to upgrade all our cannons to artillery. With those, we should be able to conquer any city on our continent, regardless its defence or underlaying terrain. Maybe you want to wait for that before attacking america (or any else) and make the troops move to one of our (northern) cities for upgrade by the time the research is done. Barracks can be rushbuilt for the upgrade the turn before the research is done.

I suggest relying on the artillery from here on. If there is anyone who never used it yet:
the idea is to have some strong defenders, possibly an army with defensive units in a stack together with a large amount of artillery and a few offensive units. when moving trough enemy territory, the cavalry can move out of the stack to attack or take workers in adjacent squares, then move back into the stack where they are safe. When reaching a city, the artillery should first redline every single unit inside it before the cavalry attacks what remains of the units.
It is important to keep the stack together and to have a decent sized stack. The units cannot be spread over the map to much. I think we can make a few of these stacks. A stack should contain for example 15-20 artillery + 5 defenders + 5 attackers.
Obviously we have more than enough attackers to make some stacks, but only artillery and defenders for 2 or 3 now. Therefore i suggested making more of those. Lost or wounded units in the stack must be replaced or waited until they are healed.

Ok I got the save and I'll start beefing up the artillery and moving forces into position. If I have enough before the end of my turn sequences I'll attack America.

I was busy yesterday and didn't have a chance to look at it until today.

Ok something really awful just happened. I got the turn, pressed the space bar and Russia attacked us. They took Lyons and Nottingham. Animations are off on the file so I couldn't get an accurate count of how big of a force they invaded with but my best guess is between 10-20 Cossacks and some cannons.

Looking at our position, I'm not really sure how to deal with this problem. We lack RR infrastructure to counter attack or reinforce the other cities to the south of the two that Russia just took from us. Our units are a few turns away in moves.

To sum it up, these 10 turns are going to be long and painful.

I'm not comforable with leaving cities undefended. What just happened is a perfect example of why I'm not comfortable with it.

I've saved the game and am asking for some feedback on how to deal with this issue before I hand back a set of turns after losing a dozen or more cities.

Does anyone have any suggestions of how to deal with this problem?

Oh :(
well, i did check it out.

You see those cav's South-west of Elipi, those can reach Nothingham and attack it.
After Nothing ham is retaken, they can also reach Lyons and the units from and around Orleans can reach Lyons as well.

The cosacks on open ground could be taken by the stack in the north on american ground or maybe others as well.

The main problem i think is gonna be gold and warweariness. As you see, there are quite some nations against us now.

btw, how do you guess 20 cossacks? i looked at the movement and only saw a few units moving in.

Oh :(
btw, how do you guess 20 cossacks? i looked at the movement and only saw a few units moving in.

I'm old and wear glasses. I leave animations on when I play so I can see what's happening. When it goes by in a quick series of blurs I lose track of what is going on.

I'll see what I can do here.

Turn 0: 1100 AD Turn Received. Greece and America signed a trade embargo against us.

England and America have signed a trade embargo against us. Trade Ebur for Ferrum to

Japan. Russia performs a deadly sneak attack and takes two of our cities; Lyons and

Nottingham.

Turn 1: 1110 AD Did not have enough movement to retake the cities lost. Russia had a MPP

with England and Germany. India signs a trade embargo against us.

Turn 2: 1120 AD Took Lyons and Nottingham back. Lots of cities start to riot. I put a

clown in each one with problems. Japan breaks the trade deal with us and signs a trade

embargo with Germany.

Turn 3: 1130 AD Picked off enemy units in the open but haven't resumed the offensive yet.

England offers peace; won't offer any concessions but I take it. More of our cities start

to riot.

Turn 4: 1140 AD Nothing of interest

Turn 5: 1150 AD Iroquois signed a trade embargo against us.

Turn 6: 1160 AD We have Replacebable Parts now. Nottingham had rubber which explains the

Russian attack. I set research for Scientific method but at 0%. I move the luxury slider

up to 20% to help deal with the rioting cities. Micromanaged a couple of cities to have

scientists working. I upgraded 10 cannons to artillery. I move an assault force in place

to ready to move on Minsk.

Turn 7: 1170 AD Thermoplyae flipped to the greeks. Nothing else exciting.

Turn 8: 1180 AD Just worked on RR. France signed a military alliance against us. Signed

peace with America.

Turn 9: 1190 AD Upgraded more cannons. Most of our cities are connected via RR. Just a

few left from the ones conquered from Greece.

Turn 10: 1200 AD Move a giant force towards minsk. Eliminated a German thrust on Orleans.

One or two cities left to connect.

Score is: 1826


http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Ankka_SG003_AD1200_01.SAV

WackenOpenAir
shoe35
EL OSO
Jeff1787 - UP!
waitingtoderail - on deck
Ankka

Since we are at war with the world now anyway, i think we can stop worrying about reputation.
I suggest taking that greek city back regardles of us having deals or not, if the greek city has squares in one of our cities radius, it increases the chance of other cities flipping.

Also can we ask for stuf in peace deals and then attack again if we dont care about rep.

Nice to see RR about ready and artilleries upgraded :D :goodjob:
Hopefully jef can take a lot of stuff with the arties :p

Just looked at the file, i see the stack with arties contains a lot of cavalry but no rifles. Please add a few rifles to the stack before moving, those are important to protect the cav's and arties.

I'll play within 24 hours or so, I hope I don't screw this up!!!!!!!!!!!!! :confused:

Make em all pay for defying Rome! Burn their cities to the ground! :mischief:

WackenOpenAir
shoe35
EL OSO
Jeff1787 - just played
waitingtoderail - UP
Ankka - on deck




Turn 1...1210 AD...England declared war on us.

Turn 2...1220 AD...Preparing to attack Russia.

Turn 3...1230 AD...Captured Coventry from the English.

Turn 4...1240 AD...France gave us peace and 5 gold.

Turn 5...1250 AD...Coventry flepped back to the English. Signed a peace treaty with England and they gave us 60 gold. Iroquois declared war on us. Founded Ceasaraugusta. Captured Minsk from Russia. Made peace with Japan.

Turn 6...1255 AD...Athens and Rhodes flipped to the Greeks. Made peace with Russia. Founded Palmyra. Captured back Athens and Rhodes and also captured Thermopylae.

Turn 7...1260 AD...Minsk flipped to the Germans but we captured it back. Founded Jerusalum east of Minsk. Made peace with Germany. They gave 50 gold and 8 gpt.

Turn 8...1265 AD...Captured Troy from the Greeks.

Turn 9...1270 AD...Nothing.

Turn 10...1275 AD...Troy flipped back to the Greeks. Captured Troy back. Traded sanitation to France for 125 gold.

Please some comments.

Our score is 1981.

Here is the save.

With all of these flipping problems wouldn't it be better to raze the enemy cities and plant a new settler?

From my experience, the larger cities are harder to control and are just as productive as a newly founded city.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/Ankka_SG003_AD1325_01.SAV

For some reason, I can't get myself to write down what turns I do everything in, so here's the highlights of my turns:

Several countries began working on wonder - Theory of Evolution
NO ONE will trade anything.
I capture 2 Greek cities - Gozumonum which I keep and Marathon, which I raze. Very close to destroying the capital, the rest of the cities should drop like flies.
I reaffirm our peace treaty with Aztecs who demand suffimentum on the next turn. I refuse, they declare war.
The Russians destroy the French.
Make peace with Iroquois and get 31 gold.
Found the city of Caesarea.
I don't attack any countries with whom we have active peace treaties. However, I've amassed a large number of artillery in London (I know, it's dangerous for flipping, so the next person should attack England pretty quickly - or temporarily move them to a less dangerous position - I only realized that as I write this - preferably ASAP).
Babylon declares war on Russia.

Anyway, good luck to the next guy. My turns were relatively quiet due to the active peace treaties. These will be ending soon and we should go on an all out assault to take the remainder of the continent soon.

Ok...


WackenOpenAir - UP!
shoe35 - on deck
EL OSO
Jeff1787
waitingtoderail

You don't play anymore anka ?

Ok, starting:

hmm, we are falling back in science. We don't have an income to get money for stealing.

First thing, an income needs to be created.
I move the happiness slider down to 10%.
Clowns are needed mostly in cities that are size 12 already anyway and foreign cities that are so corrupt, growth wont benefit them. (except for score). Only a few have negative impact on production.
Also am i making a few marketplaces in cities that can benefit from the happines. (and are worth an investment)

309 gpt now.

Our science goal should now be Robotics for radar artillery, getting Computers for mech inf and Motorized for tanks on the road there.

I don't think we need to build any hospitals, there are no workable tiles for larger cities anyway.

Time to think about millitairy. The railroad system is complete now.
Since any unit can be anywhere now, instead of looking at the map, i look at the millitairy advisor and see:
-3 musketmen.
-19 riflemen
-78 cavalry
-20 infantry
-5 cannons
-61 artillery
-2 galeon
-2 army

My PC screws over and doesn't allow my mouse to select anything after swiching with the forum too much. It does take enter though, so i go to the next turn. Not much more important to do anyway. Next turn my mouse works again so turn1:

All obsoleet units are upgraded, making 41 infantry and 69 artillery.

It will be a while before the AI is gonna have tanks, so with 10 defence infantry(and def bonusses) against 6 attack cavalry, i think 2 defenders per border city will be enough. If they get trough, the rr will allow us to retake it in a second anyway.
I move 2 defenders to each city that could be attacked within 1 turn.
I take 25 artillery and 25 cavalry in a stack together who will stay on the railway network for defence.

The remaining 19 infantry, 35 artillery and 36 cavalry are for attack.
I make 2 stacks of these units. when more artillery is produced, a third could be made.

I conquer Thessalonica.

Turn2:
The upgraded units are ready to join the stacks now. I feel its time to move out and attack with them.
I need an opponent who can give me tech in peace negotiations.
Most deals will expire within 5 turns, but with france and babylon, we don't have any deal at all, so i declare and one stack movers towards new york.

The other stack moves for Nineveh. My plan is to move the Nineveh stack trough Sevestapool, Babylon and Ur. The New York stack can meanwhile move trough Ashur to Washington and Philadelphia

Unfortunately, lux now needs to go back up so we get only 180 gpt. Well, let's hope we can get some for peace.

I sign peace with the aztecs. We wont be able to attack them soon and without attacking them, they wont pay us techs anyway. Right now, they don't even want to pay 1 gold.

Turn 3:
japan declared on me for their mutual protection with Babylon.

Need a break now.

Turn3:
I conquer Eritrea. Then sign peace with Greece and get Artesium and Miletos from them. They are down to one city. I did sign peace because Miletos is at some distand and seperated from us by russian cities. This way we will get it easilly.

Turn4:
haha, greece offers us a mutual protection pact if we pay him 48 gpt. :D

I take now york (defended 3 conscript infantry) and Nineveh (rifle and infantry) easilly and without losses.


Turn5:
I had to cross one tile of english border to get to Ashur. England gives me the choise to leave or war. Since i can take england anyway, and i don't want to leave, i choose war. All english cities start to riot, no problem, soon there won't be any england anymore.
One city on the main continent flips back to greece. I redeclare on greece and plan to whipe them within a few turns.

First, the interception force moves out to retake delphi. Delphi is retaken.
The remainder of the interception force moves to take Coventry. Coventry is connected by railway and the artillery can bomb it from our territory, so no problem taking it while still maintaining the defensive opportunities.
Taking coventry unfortunately costed me some cav's, but we have it now.

I conquer Sevastapol
I sell granaries in cities that are size 12 already.

While we are taking our continent, India is taking his continent.


Turn 6:
The last greek city is conquered, their settler tries to escape but is captured. The greek are no more.

Conquer Ashur.

Need another break.

Didn't get a writedown of the remaining turns, but these are the plans:

The intervention force is stationed next to London. Ships are sailing around us everywhere, so i expect the intervention force soon to be needed.
Railroads should be made to connect York and also 1 tile into enemy territory so that we can bombard the english and take their last city on our continent with the intervention force.
Note, when moving onto the railroad in enemy territory, the movement point is lost for the arties. Next turn they can move again after the english city is captured, but capturing that city will cost all movement point of the arties. Therefore shoose a moment of safety for this invasion. The cavalries will always be available to move in and out as they want though, so a few invaders can always be handled by those.

Then, you can try to get techs for peace from the english, if they don't want to pay, they can be wiped of the planet with their last city in the south of the small continent.

The western stack is moving for Washington.

The other stack can take babylon. They don't want to pay techs for peace, but another option would be to make a peace treaty and pay our gold for their techs. Then destroy their last city in the same turn and liberate their gold.

I sold salpeter to the germans for 49 gpt since they will be the last to be destroyed on our continent anyway, we can have 20 turns of peace with them. I did not sell them rubber for militairy reasons.

keep an eye on the luxury slider, war weariness fluctuates with all the wars going around and sometimes peace being made.

Oh, after playing my turns, instead of saving at the end of the turn, i accidentally pressed enter. So the save is at the start of next turn. Nothing is done yet.

Turn3:
I sell granaries in cities that are size 12 already.



Question here.

Are you doing this because we're not building hospitals or is this something I should do always?

I thought the granary had an effect on growth and food storage past size 12.

Yes they do have effect beyond size 12, but i sell them because the cities won't grow beyond size 12.
Maybe some could be a little larger, but not worth the investment for a hospital.

Anyone still here ?

me!!!!!!!!!

Shoe35 is up right?

yeah he is..

HI, everyone.

I have just been hired and need to be away for three weeks.

I will check in as I can but will be unable to play.

Good luck I am sure you will all do well.

I guess shoe won't play ?

WackenOpenAir
shoe35 ---- Seems to be away
EL OSO
Jeff1787
waitingtoderail
Ankka ---- When do you want to play again ?

so now its EL_OSO's turn.

Uh... sorry folks, I'm not playing anymore in this SG. :(

Why not?

I guess EL OSO is up