or just rush the heroic epic and get antium started on making units. we need units, more the better, as we're slipping badly behind in tech. right now only 1 town is making legions and we need to improve that as best we can. This should also hurry the next great leader (in AW we should get quite a few) and then we can rush the FP when we have more towns settled.

This sounds like a better idea. Please remind me what the HE does for us? I had just started it in the last turn or two, so we wouldn't be wasting many shields to do this. Perhaps it's better to grab a large wonder instead of a small wonder? HE can always be built by hand, as it doesn't seem to take much at only 19 turns.

This would allow us to save the FP for once we have colonized the Greek city spots.

This sounds like a better idea. Please remind me what the HE does for us?
the HE will increase our chances for leaders. since we will be warring the entire game, this small wonder will be quite useful. the earlier the better as well. FP can come later when we have more cities that can benefit from it.

Agreed, but since small wonders can be built by everyone, and ths one seems cheap, then it seems to be a waste of a leader (unless it really does spawn many others). I have no experience with it, and so have no basis.

Agreed, but since small wonders can be built by everyone, and ths one seems cheap, then it seems to be a waste of a leader (unless it really does spawn many others). I have no experience with it, and so have no basis. i agree that it is cheap but, to me, it's very expensive to have a city offline making it when it could be making units, especially in a practically AW game where our opponents are outresearching and out expanding us, building more towns than we can destroy. we'll get another leader soon enough and can rush more expensive stuff then.

well, it probably doesn't matter what we think now as i'm sure bugs will be done with his turns soon and we'll know what he did.

Looks like I'm a bit late but I'd vote for the HE myself. I usually don't like it, but with as many elite battles as we'll be having, that 25% increase to leader fishing will be most helpful! Also, since this is PTW speed isn't an issue with the FP. Location is. We want to make the second core in a location where it will have a full RCP-4 ring around it, that is past RCP-7 for our capitol core. Maybe 1 or 2 RCP-10 cities from the capitol in the FP ring. I still don't understand C3C FP placement, but Civ3 placement I know very well.

I think we should wait and send the FP up north not east. The east has to many mountains. I think the best location would be Sevastopol. Take a look at it, using RCP rings at 4, 7, and 10. It's a perfect fit to give us 2 complete cores, and will be alot better. Also... how does everyone feel about palace jobs to remote locations? To much of a exploit? If not, then all the help we could get type of situation....

I'd liked to someday be able to move the palace to north/east of Paris and let the whole south be FP controlled.

Unless we can support a 2nd army, my vote for this GL is the Heroic Epic. Once we get a city near the Athens site, then it'll be time for the FP over there.

What's it going to take to get the settler factory back on line? We've got lots of places to put settlers.

I believe that Veii was set up on Bedes watch. We should be able to pump out settler again. We also need to use that wheat as a place to pump out some workers... I know it's AW but we're really hurting.

Can we make explorers? Why not do the explorers with the army trick to go pillage the north to kingdom come?

As for the palace move, I saw it the other way with the north being FP controled, but either way works.;)

My reasoning was to put the FP in now in old Greece with an upcoming GL, then (much later) when we settle a city in old England/France us a GL to move the palace there. It will prevent flips of our new cities and allow for the new region to become productive right away.

We're along way from explorers (Navigation).

My reasoning was to put the FP in now in old Greece with an upcoming GL, then (much later) when we settle a city in old England/France us a GL to move the palace there. It will prevent flips of our new cities and allow for the new region to become productive right away.

the only problem with this is that it will take time to develope the new core, which we won't really have since this is basically an AW game. we need the core developed and pumping units the entire game. imho, palace jumping out of the core will not help and will just slow us down while we get barracks, markets, libraries, etc setup again.

we need to conquer this continent ASAP, then figure out how we're going to go after the other, probably more advanced continent later.

after bugs' turns, we need to also talk about research. i've noticed that we are doing a min run on philosophy, one of the cheapest techs of the AA. i must say that this was not a very smart move. however, we're probably so far in the hole right now with this tech, we should just finish it and then agree on what to research next. hopefully, something like a gov't or currency.

G-Man: We won't lose the original core productivity, we'll just gain additional production in the new core. The original core will have the benefit of the nearby FP to keep it going.

As for research I agree, the AI we know already have Feudalism (pikes) and aren't that far from Chivalry (knights) and Gunpowder (muskets), neither of which I like sending Legions against.

G-Man: We won't lose the original core productivity, we'll just gain additional production in the new core. The original core will have the benefit of the nearby FP to keep it going.

not where your suggesting. it will be at least @ distance 12 to Rome from the old location of Athens and the other cities will be greater. we will lose production while the new core comes online, not a good thing to do when at war. also, the major element in regards to flips, foreign citizens, is eliminated by the varient so no real problem there. imho, lets forget the move for now and lets focus on catching up. once we get the continent close to our control, we can then start looking at logical locations if the game seems to warrent it.

I finished my turns late, but didn't get a chance to post the log. I'll have it up in the AM Pacific time. So what happened?

How many leaders?

a) 1 b) 2 c) 3 d) 4

How many cities destroyed?

a) 2 b) 3 c) 4 d) 5

Was Greece destroyed?

a) yes b) no

Tune in tomorrow to find out in the next exciting episode of "When in Rome"!

(BTW - Actually the name of a pretty good band)

oh! I like playing this game!!!

1) 4!

2) 5!

3) A! If not, you're fired.:p J/k... maybe.;)

4) Don't know about our taste in music though.:p Give me some good ole Rage Against the Machine or Slipknot, or even some Slayer if I'm in an evil mood that Slipknot won't fill. When's SoaD's next album out you ask? (shrugs) I'm still into the new Fear Factory.

Edit: Oh yeah, for the FP I just want to point out that we'll loose our RCP ranking by moving the palace.

Oooh can I play the guessing game too:

1. 2 Leaders (1 for an army & 1 for Heroic Epic)
2. 5 Cities
3. No more Greece
4. My tastes in music tend to run more towards Hiroshima, Rippingtons & Keiko Matsui

Looks like I'm up in this one now. Got a free evening and it's first on the list.

Once Bugs has posted the log, suggestions and comments for my upcoming set are welcome.

Quiz answers – 2 leaders, 3 cities (Delphi, Argos & Liverpool), Greece is still alive, but barely.
Alerum – We just have very different musical tastes.
Denyd – I do like Hiroshima, I like the “1000 Cranes” song the best. Alerum, that song would probably make you :vomit:

110 BC – Continued. I don’t need to worry about declaring war anytime soon, we’re already at war with everyone we know.

We have a strong military compared to every one but Babylon (average).

Back to the war. Lose a legion attacking the German sword. Then kill the sword with another vet.

Kill another Bowman with a legion.
G-man checks in. I send the leader towards Viroconium.

Change Hispalis to a cat. The settler/worker factory at Veii is fixed… nice job! We have a worker selected right now and I agree with that plan. We need some improvements everywhere.
Fire a taxman in Pompeii. MM several cities for production v. growth.

IBT – We defend against an English archer. The Babs have another stack headed our way.
Veii: worker=>settler

1. 90 BC – Move the leader to Viroc. And rush the FP.

A English settler pair has wandered next to our legion/archer in the east. Kill the spear and disband the workers. I hate doing that. :rolleyes:

Kill a Bowman with a eLegion. Kill a Russian spear with a eLegion. A Russian horse retreats from our *Legion. Use a spear to kill it.

We have a lot of cash. Since we’re in despotism, we can’t rush anything with it. Since we’re at war with everyone, we can buy anything with it. I up our science budget to 50% Philosophy due in 3 at +3gpt.

Not having to worry about diplomacy is kind of nice :D
IBT – We defend against a Russian horse. Units march closer.
Viroc.: FP=>Barracks
Babs start Sun-Tzu’s :eek:

2. 70 BC – Upgrade a warrior.
Kill a French warrior with a eLegion.
Move two legions onto the hill above Antium to force the Bab stack into the valley.
Start moving on Delphi.

IBT – The Babs move into the valley. Germans start Sun-Tzu’s.

3. 50 BC – Kill two Bowmen and promote two vLegions.

Found Lugdunum as our final RCP4 ring city. Start Barracks.
Attack the stack of Bowmen with Trajan’s Eagles. The regular Bowman on top takes 7hp from the army.
Attack again and a regBowman takes out a eLegion, and doesn’t lose a hp! I hate the RNG.
Kill one of the Hoplites defending Delphi and promote our legion to elite.
Kill a Greek archer with a eLegion. We should be due for another leader soon.
Science comes down to 40%. Philo due next. Lux down 10%.

IBT – No attacks, but several incursions. Monarchy is next, science to 70% with +1gpt budget, due in 15.
Rome: leg=>leg

4. 30 BC – Upgrade another Legion.

@Delphi – An eLegion loses 3hp but razes the city.
We march on Corinth and Oxford.
We lose a vLegion killing two Bowman.

IBT – A legion defeats first an English archer and a French sword, before losing to another French sword.

5. 10 BC – Upgrade another warrior.
@ Oxford we kill a spear.

I lost the last five turns in my log when my machine locked up, so here is a brief recap. The city of Argos was razed and this happy event occurred…

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM3_-_50_AD_leader.jpg

The leader is almost home. The Germans and the Babylonians have had an obsession about Lugdunum. On the last turn I killed off two bowmen. You’ll notice a line of Germans in the mountains. They are heading towards Lugdunum or maybe our FP city.

The city of Liverpool NW of Antium was razed. Although we eventually lost the legion who got it done, he took out two English archers and a Russian spear before falling to an English horse.

Most of the Axis powers have started working on Sun-Tzu. I wouldn’t plan on getting any wonders. I would just keep building armies with the leaders.

We have two units in position to assault Oxford next turn. I don’t know if we want to start expanding in that direction or back fill around our FP. There is some incense around where Athens was. The AI have started moving into that vacuum. The Russians and French are in the area. Oh I see the Russians have a city.

The Americans have finally started to show up. We are strong compared to every one but Babylon and we’re average with them.

There is a settler to the south. The tile one SE of the horses, which he stands on, is RCP7.

The settler factory is just about running as good as it is going to get, cycling between 4 and 6. between 3 and 5 you don’t get enough shields. We may want to settle the area north of the river in the Oxford-Liverpool area, although backfilling the Greek area is probably more important. We might want to plan out a dot map for that area. Around the FP.

We now have two cities building Legions, and Pompeii will start after its warrior is built. I have two cities building cats, Pisae and Hispalis. Please keep building cats somewhere because they will become very important in reducing the defense in cities with pikes.

Ravenna will be hooked up to our happiness network and will be able to build legions as well, although we might want to build horses there.

Lugdunum has the potential to be a worker factory once the lands are improved.

Move the leader first so that you can have more chance of getting more leaders. I would let Antium complete the HE, by the time you got the leader there, the build would only have two turns left.

City management – We need more improvements in our core. Rome can probably produce 15 spt if we get the hills mined. Pompeii and Cumae should be able to hit 10 spt. Eventually we’ll want to chop the forests over by Pisae and Hispalis to get more growth.

Here is a sitrep:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM_90_AD_-_East.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM_90_AD_-_West.jpg

Save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/bugsy_SG003_AD0090_01.SAV

:ninja: Go get ‘em Denyd! :ninja:

good turns bugs :thumbsup: and glad to see we're researching monarchy! that will help a lot. hopefully, with space cramped to the N, the AI's will start turning on each other.

getting Rome up to 15spt should be a high priority but getting Cumae up to 10spt may be quicker.
with the leader, I say we form another legion army. once we get 3, we will be able to build the pentigon and our army's will be truely unstoppable.
also, imho, i say we let greece rot for now, focusing instead on breaking france while wiping the area clean of unwelcome guests.

AH, I forgot to tell you. It was in my lost log. The Babylonians have a city named Chicago. :D It has started. :mischief:

Nice work Bugsy :hatsoff:

Looks like Catherine has a couple of cities to be razed in our neighborhood.

Once Monarchy is here (about 7 turns), I plan on revolting immediately (I hope I don't have to pass anarchy to the next player).

The RCP 4 is complete and RCP 7 is now in process, is there any impact on having a third ring or will they be generally corrupt?

I agree with G-M about Armies and The Pentagon.

As for building horses, unless we expect to get to Chivalry soon, horses against pikes is not a good idea. I agree on cats. They'll be vital for those size 6+ cities.

G-Man: We won't lose the original core productivity, we'll just gain additional production in the new core. The original core will have the benefit of the nearby FP to keep it going.

Given this, then Antium may be the best bet, to keep the original core uncorrupted.

Also, I hooked up the horses so that we could have a few rapid-reaction units for the S and E shores. Now the W too. No intent to build a horde of horses.

I think we need to get an RCP4 and 7 around the FP city.

R&L - I think I missed something on Antium.

Once Monarchy is here (about 7 turns), I plan on revolting immediately (I hope I don't have to pass anarchy to the next player).

The RCP 4 is complete and RCP 7 is now in process, is there any impact on having a third ring or will they be generally corrupt?

As for building horses, unless we expect to get to Chivalry soon, horses against pikes is not a good idea. I agree on cats. They'll be vital for those size 6+ cities.
please revolt immediately. don't worry about handing off anarchy as getting to monarchy is key here.

re RCP: i usually get sloppy after the 1st or 2nd ring and have no real ill effects. i think we've done a nice job as is. We can focus on the FP rings now if desired. having a perfect 3rd ring @ distance 10 could be more trouble than it's worth. I'd rather have towns on hills with legeons inside, soaking up enemy swords.

as for horses, 2 playing zone for rear land landings would be useful. otherwise, i agree with limiting thier builds till we get more cities online creating units. right now, we need more legions and cat's.

what about greece, rot or kill?

@R&L and denyd -> let's agree to worry about palace jumping later, eh? right now, we need to focus on getting out of our foxhole.

what about greece, rot or kill?
I think for the time being we let them rot. Let's concentrate on building cities and skirmishing on defense. We don't want to have to conquer the former Greek lands too many times. Then as we run out of land we start razing cities. When we are ready to move north, we should have some settlers handy to settle the land as we clear it out.

@R&L and denyd -> let's agree to worry about palace jumping later, eh? right now, we need to focus on getting out of our foxhole.

Not a problem. I had quoted from the previous page. My personal style doesn't allow for moving the palace. I prefer to keep my original core running well.

I could go along with letting Greece ripen a little bit. Joan needs to be pillaged, and Paris is so close...

Also, IIRC, the American-Bab thing started quite a while ago.

Agree on the FP

Do I have anyone to declare against during my set?

I'll concentrate on razing the nearest cities.

Which direction should we be settling (E & NE would be my guess)?

After Monarchy, then what? Currency, code of laws or construction are what's left I think. I'm thinking code of laws at maximum to get us out of the AA ASAP.

Libraries would help alot on research, but is the build time worth the gain?

We're at war with everyone we know.

I agree on settling east, and maybe southeast

I'd go science at max on any of the three.

once cumae is up to speed (10spt), then a library in rome would be a nice addition.

also, wrt research after monarchy, i'd prefer currency for the markets (warring + markets = good) but we might just be quicker to the MA if we take the cheapest tech 1st. we'll see how it looks at the end of your turns, as we'll probably just be in anarchy when you hand off.

hehehe... you'd be suprised... my music taste are actually pretty varied... as long as it's not country, rap, or Yanni.:p

Looks like some good turns. The obssession with a city that has nothing in it must mean there is a resource we don't know about near it. Probably some rubber or oil.

I'll have a dotmap up for the greek lands. I think we should backfill areas we conquour before the AI has a chance. Also, we may want to stockpile 2-3 settlers to quickly start rebuilding cities after we destroy them. Sorry if I cross-posted, didn't read anything else yet.

I believe Denyd is up.

The dot map:

Red dot is RCP-7.

Blue dots are RCP-10, and all but one are on hills... very nice defense.

Purple dots aren't based on RCP at all. They're almost all place on a hill, unless it's coastal or in tundra. We may want to re-do some of the iceberg cities, making it a bit tigher since the won't grow beyond size 2, but I didn't think we'd get that far for a while anyway. Take out the east first, then we can backfill the south as our leisure.

One last thing... France should be our last target. If they keep kicking people out who are going for us, they're bound to get dragged into a war or 5. This should take some pressure off of us. We should still weaken then if they enter our lands, but that's it. I think the first thing we should do, and I know it goes against normal game play, but we should clear out all those small cities that have poped up around us... just make sure we have a settler ready to retake that location before the AI does... we're already at war... a cities every 4 turns should be plenty until we get a more solid footing... that's just MHO though, and I'm counting on you guys to find some holes in it.;)

Also, Lagash is on the 7-ring, and Corinth is on the 10-ring.

I like libraries first, but could live with courts. Looking forward to the switch to monarchy!

Libraries in close, courts in ring 7 and greater.

To quote one of the great thinkers of our times, Bullwinkle the Moose: "Hey, Rocky watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat"

THE SAVE (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/bugsy_SG003_AD0270_01.SAV)

Turn 0 – 90 AD – Take a quick look around and since were at war with everyone no trades possible – Decide to upgrade the Vet Warrior in Pompeii – Fire the clown in Pompeii - hit return and duck

IBT: 5 German Swords & 3 American Swords enter the picture – Veii settler->settler

Turn 1 – 110 AD – Vet Legion loses to Reg Greek Archer (1/3) – Vet Legion (3/4) kills Reg Greek Archer – Attack on Oxford: Vet Legion (1/4) kills Reg Spear – Elite Legion (1/5) kills Reg Spear and Oxford is razed, 2 slaves disbanded – Vet Legion (2/4) kills Reg English Archer – Elite Legion (4/5) chases off Reg English Horse (1/3)

IBT: Germany comes calling and is up +5 technologies – Vet Legion (2/5) defends against Reg English Archer and promotes – Rome Legion->Legion – Pompeii Warrior->Legion – Viroconium Barracks->Archer

Turn 2 – 130 AD – Maximus reaches Pompeii and forms an Army – Settler founds Lutetia starts barracks – Vet Legion (3/5) kills Babylonian spear and promotes – other units heal

IBT: A rainbow of swordsmen appear – Ravenna warrior->warrior – Lugdunum worker->catapult

Turn 3 – 150 AD – Maximus Maulers loaded with 3 Vet Legions – just lots of other unit movement to the front

IBT: Vet Spear (3/4) defends against Reg American Sword – Elite Legion loses to Reg American Sword (1/3) – Cumae Legion-Legion – Pisae Catapult->Horseman

Turn 4 – 170 AD – Cat misses Sword – Trajan Eagles (12/14) kills French Reg Sword – Maximus Maulers (9/12) kills Vet German Sword – Vet Legion (2/4) chases English Horse (1/3) – Legion (4/4) kills Reg American Sword – Elite Legion (4/5) kills English Horse and Germanicus is born – Germanicus hurries to Antium but can’t form an army yet need 1 more city – Elite Legion (3/5) kills Reg German Sword – Elite Legion (4/5) kills Reg German Sword

IBT: English Horse (2/3) kills Elite Legion – American Archer (1/3) kills Vet Legion (3hp on a hill) – Vet Spear (3/4) defends against Reg America Archer – Rome Legion->Legion – Antium Heroic Epic->Legion

Turn 5 – 190 AD – Cat misses German sword – Cat hits English Horse – Trajans Eagles (9/14) kills Reg French sword – Elite (4/5) Legion kills Reg American Archer – Elite Legion (5/5) kills English Horse – Vet Legion (4/5) kills Reg Bowman and promotes – Maximus Maulers (7/14) kills Reg German Sword gets a promotion

IBT: Defensive cat hit – Maximus Maulers defend against a pair of German Archers – Veii Settler->Settler

Turn 6 – 210 AD – Settler founds Byzantium starts barracks – Germanicus forms Red Machine – Elite Sword (5/5) kills Reg American Sword and Claudius (GL) is born – Switch Veii to Pentagon and Claudius hurries it – Elite Legion (4/5) kills Reg American Sword – Hero of Argos (4/5) kills America Spear and disbands pair of workers – Cat hits Bab Spear - Elite Legion (4/5) kills Reg Bab Spear – Elite Legion (1/5) kills Reg Bab Spear (they were heading for the iron) - Switch Hispalis to spear (American galley nearby)

IBT: Veii builds Pentagon starts Settler – Ravenna warrior->legion – Hispalis spearman->catapult

230 AD – Turn 7 – Hero of Argos kills another American settler/spear pair – Elite Legion (1/5) kills Reg American Spear

IBT: English heading to Veii – BTW: Spot an American Pikeman - Discover Monarchy research Code of Laws – Rome Legion->Legion – Antium Legion->Legion – Cumae Legion->Legion – Pompeii Legion->Legion – Viroconium spear->spear

Turn 8 – 250 AD – Cat hits Hoplite – Cat misses Bowman – Vet Legion (4/4) kills Bowman – Elite Legion (4/5) kills Reg American Sword – Vet Legion (2/4) kills English Horse – Begin revolt to Monarchy – Draw only a 3 turn anarchy

IBT: Veii spearman defend against a pair of English Archers and get a promotion, however the third archer pillages the game

Turn 9 – 260 AD – Cat hits French Sword – Vet Legion (3/4) kills Reg French Sword – Vet Legion (4/5) kills Reg French Sword and promotes

IBT: Maximus Maulers (18/18) with catapult help defend against a Greek Archer

Turn 10 – 270 AD – Cat misses – Cat hits English Archer – Red Machine (14/19) kills Vet American Spear and razes Miami – Maximus Maulers (16/18) kills Vet German Sword – Vet Legion (3/4) kills Reg English Sword

After action report We have one more turn of Anarchy – Hero of Argos is chasing a Russian spear/settler pair – Trajan’s Eagles are at the doorstep of Nuremberg, they have a settler with them and a Legion for garrison duty following – There is an 1/5 Legion traveling with Big Red Machine, make sure to bring him home – England has a spear/settler pair heading for Oxford’s ruins
A quick diplomatic report:
Greece: Still in Ancient Age, 2 cities, lacks horses & iron
France: Middle Age, 6 cities
England: Middle Age, 8 cities, lacks iron
Babylon: Middle Age, 10 cities
Russia: Middle Age, 10 cities
Germany: Middle Age, 10 cities
America: Middle Age, 7 cities

Everyone is Republic except Greece (Despot) and all are weak to us military wise

We have 3 4-Legion armies in pretty good to excellent health, considering that at the beginning of turn 3, I was afraid I might not make it until 10 turns, were in pretty good shape. Monarchy should help our tech rate and with luck we’ll make it to the Middle Ages soon.

and a little eye candy:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Bugsy_SG3_270AD.jpg

3 turn anarchy, holds off all comers, and gets the pentagon. nice day at the office :lol:

very nice day at the office! Feeling more and more solid every turn set... I believe G-man is up!

Well played! Excellent headwork going for the Pentagon.

We need to settle us som more cities so we can build another army. Just a thought, would popping a settler out of Rome help out, or will it cripple or production? After my turns we were getting 10 spt IIRC, that's a legion every 3 turns.

Roster Check

Denyd - Just Played
G-Man - Up
Alerum - On deck
Bede
R&L
Bugs

We need to settle us som more cities so we can build another army. Just a thought, would popping a settler out of Rome help out, or will it cripple or production? After my turns we were getting 10 spt IIRC, that's a legion every 3 turns.

i'd like to keep Rome chugging and eventually get it up to 15spt. however, other cities like Ravenna, Viroconium or Pompeii could help out with settlers here and there. Pompeii and Ravenna have access to a cow which should help them recover more quickly than Viroconium.

I'll play and post tonight. Have we settled on a particular tech or do I just chose the cheapest required one?

I think the cheapest one, Although construction so we can build walls will be a nice one to get.

I started research on Code of Laws, with 60% sci, we get it in 6 turns with +15gpt (that's in despotism).

We'll need 4 more cities (1 settler tagging along with Army to Nuremberg, need 3 more) to build the next army. Once we can get Legions pumping again, we'll be able to let the armies free from defensive needs to roam and kill those local cities. It's going to get tougher as the first pikes are on the scene. The fact that England lacks iron, makes her a prime target at this time. I suggest we keep 1 Army killing AI cities in the NE and send the other 2 with any Legions we can spare to take out Lizzy.

Things will change as far as settler production once we're in Monarchy (no despot penalty anymore). We will need to settle near the old Oxford site to provide a buffer for Veii so we can improve the land there and not have to worry about AI pillaging or killing our workers.

I agree Bugsy, killing captured workers seems like a major waste of resources. Even the most Xenophonic societies have the low class grunt workers (normally from a less developed culture).

I started research on Code of Laws, with 60% sci, we get it in 6 turns with +15gpt (that's in despotism).

Thanks! will stay that course, of course :)

Once we can get Legions pumping again, we'll be able to let the armies free from defensive needs to roam and kill those local cities. It's going to get tougher as the first pikes are on the scene. The fact that England lacks iron, makes her a prime target at this time. I suggest we keep 1 Army killing AI cities in the NE and send the other 2 with any Legions we can spare to take out Lizzy.

Sorry, but i disagree again (for some reason, we seem to be doing that alot this game, which is unusual). imho, lets take out France before she gets to muskets and her UU. pikes vs legion army's are not too bad. plus, we could keep her from getting a GA that way and becoming a juggernaut. ditto Russia and it's Cossacks (though we'd have to take out babylon 1st). England is a puppy right now with no hope and I don't see her situation changing that quickly.

Doing my best John Kerry impersonation, I think I'll change my mind and agree with you about France being next. Your logic for France next is better than my decision based on no iron. If England doesn't have iron now, she likely won't have it later and hopefully she is trailing in tech and won't have muskets when we get to her.

I also agree with Bugs on getting settlers out ASAP, we've got a little lull right now on incoming AI troops. Now might be the best time to rush a couple of settlers, don't spend too long though building them as the AI isn't done sending troops our way yet.

In either case, we'll need settlers. That portion of the variant has set us back the most IMHO. I really like the idea of bringing a settler along when we're going to raze a city.

Definitely agree on France. I was more curious what we'd do with England territory once we razed it all anyway, we'd just be helping the Babs to get bigger, sooner. It would help to attract many of our attackers away from our cities, though.
Taking France first is more like incremental growth for us. I like it.

Getting walls won't help our core cities, since they're > 6, and we've done well with rivers, keeping our duct needs to a minimum. I don't see the priority on construction.

As far as disbanding workers goes, we don't have to like it, we just have to follow the rules. We're too far into the game to go for a switch to non-variant now.

Up with settlers!

Question - I'm being told that the restriction on hacking forest for shields mutliple times seems to have disappeared in C3C. Can anyone confirm or refute this?

Thanks.

Question - I'm being told that the restriction on hacking forest for shields mutliple times seems to have disappeared in C3C. Can anyone confirm or refute this?

Thanks.refute. did this by accident following one of justus' turns in bugs21 and definitely didn't get shields chopping a forrest for a 2nd time on the same tile. this was v1.22f...

I concur. I just saw this in Alerum's Race Wars game. The lumberjack exploit has not come back.

Thanks. I didn't think that that would be reinstated.

One more little thing for the next guy to consider:

The Legions seem to all be finishing in bunches of 3 or 4. You might want to take the 2nd or 3rd set east and take out the French & Russian cities over there. If they could bring a long a settler or two we could claim that land and essentially have the southern lands to ourselves. After those small cities are gone our troops could head north and take out the rest of Greece.

got it. will play and post tonight.

Preflight check: MM Antium to prevent loss of food. MM Ravena to speed up growth. MM Pompeii to prevent a riot. We should be a Monarchy next turn :) Oops, also MM Rome off of river grass and onto wino hills.

IBT: watch many AI units move around. We become a Monarchy.

T1: 280AD Fire all clowns possible and get production up pretty good. Veii is going to build a settler.
Trajan’s Eagles kill a stubborn spear in Nuremburg (13/19). 1 still left.
Near Lug: Bombard a German sword and then kill it (2/3) with the Mauler Army (10/18). Kill the archer on the same mountain tile with an elite Legion (3/5) and get another Leader [party]. Now if we only had something useful for him to do :D

Run the leader back to Rome and he’s fortified there

Near Veii: 4/5 legion redlines but kills 3/3 English spear.
The Red Machine kills a 3/3 Babylon sword on a hill (11/19). Elite it was protecting moves to prevent it’s loss.

IBT: Russia founds a town under the foot of the Hero of Argos (elite* 4/5). Protected by a spear on a hill.

T2: 290AD Trajen’s Eagles kill another spear in Nuremburg but it had a third.
Hero of Argus redlines but dies to spear in Russian town.
Russian are starting to bring some serious heat (4 swords and 1 archer)

IBT: Russian swords are headed SE? wonder where they are going.

T3: 300AD Eagles kill another spear but still no taking that darn city. A legion arrives to help next turn.
Between Rome and Lug: vet legion dies against 2/3 babylon spear on hill (he’s headed for our iron.
Near Veii: kill a 3/3 English spear with a vet Legion (2/4)

IBT: a settler, a couple of Legions, and a cat finish

T4: 310AD The Eagles finally finish off Nuremburg, disband 3 workers (5/19). French galley is trying to land something on our spices so I block with the spear in Pisae.

2 Legions and a horse are built.

T5: 320AD Found The Gate -> walls; 4/5 Legion and Big Red Machine kill 2 Russian swords.

We are now surrounded by foreign cities with France building 2 to the east, America 1 to the S, and Russia 1 to the East. Turn off Settler factory @ Veii and make more Legions.

T6: 330AD elite Legion kills Babylon sword near the gate (2/5)

IBT: French musketeers and longbows show up :(

T7: 340AD Try to kill as much as possible without losses. Veroconian spears moved to Byzantine due to Babylon sword threat.

IBT: 3 Babylonian swords die attacking Byzantium, squelching that attack. Also, a Legion on a hill defends against a French longbow.

CoL -> MM (10T @ 30%)

T8: 350AD Kill 2 Russian swords and an archer near Antium. Bombard a Russian Spear to 2hp near Lug.

IBT: defend against an American sword. Babylon now bringing the heat with 4 swords and 6 longbows.

T9: 360AD Need 4 cats to take 1hp off a hoplite going for our iron (between Lug and Rome.

T10: 370AD Redline a hoplite with the cats near Lug and kill off with a vet Legion.

I started a Library in Rome since our research rate is pathetic. Can be vetoed by the next player. We’re 1T away from Rome doing 15spt. You’ll need to MM between Rome, Pompeii, and Cumae to do it. Also, the 3 workers to the NW of Rome should mine that grass to free up some tiles for Pompeii or Cumae.

I’ve been performing a “flex” defense around Veii. That large stack of Babylonian units is headed straight for Veii so I’m trying to fortify on the hills in front of the ciy and to set kill zones in the grass beyond the river or @ the game-grass. If you bombard units 1st, especially the defensive units, they tend to retreat to heal instead of moving on to their target.

Finally, the Maurauder Army is near Veroconium. It and 1 Legion could escort a settler E to claim the incense and to clear some more towns. However, I would recommend you wait a few turns and bring at least 4 Legion’s + the Army. Another settler is uselessly waiting in the S @ Ravenna and could be brought with the Army as well.

Settler pump is on (set to “Low” so we can alternate between Legion and settler every 8T) but could be switched off right now if desired.

Red Machine is healing in Antium.

The Eagles are healing at The Gate.

A leader is waiting patiently in Rome.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/sgotm3-bugs-370AD.JPG

Well we know where oil is going to be. As soon as possible, I would turn the settler factory back on and send a new settler and some units to sack Grenoble and Houston.

I think we now have more cities than any other civ on our continent. The problem is that collectively they out produce us. We need to get more cities just for more armies.

Roster Check:

Denyd
G-Man - Just Played
Alerum - up
Bede - On Deck
R&L
Bugs

We're doing well turning the game around team. Let's keep it up. I think it helps the continuity to play like this.

Well we know where oil is going to be.:lol: it's even got an oil-town name :lol:

we are up to 34 legions right now but need almost every single one to hold off the advances. Once the babylonian SoD is dealt with, we should lash out NW of Veii as well and settle a town on the hill out there. that will take the heat of Veii and allow it to make more settlers and workers.

i switched the pump to low i guess to make up for the lost builds during the anarchy period. it should be up to speed now and ready concentrate on settlers again. just not enough units to escort settlers and then also defend the NW and NE fronts. The mountains are the biggest pain as we have 0 kill zones between them and our iron. it would be nice to get over those and resettle the babylonian town and the greek town (Corith). That will cut the direction of attacks down as well.

I got it. Should be able to post by tommorrow evening.

G-man, forgot to post to the server.;) Also, I'm going to be playing 2 less turns to get us back on track.

Sure ain't no rest for the wicked.

Nicely played, all.

G-man, forgot to post to the server.;) Also, I'm going to be playing 2 less turns to get us back on track.
thanks, i uploaded it this morning.

I concur with the plan to move NE and NW and cut down the number of fronts. If we can control the ridgelines and force the bad guys onto some flat land, we can set up some killing zones.

Edit - Hey some good news - Our scoring curve is starting to climb and we're no longer in the lead for the wooden spoon :D

Sorry guys, I played 3 turns last night and was playing on finishing the other other 5 tonight, but worked just beat me today. Will have it up tommorow.

(boggles) Our armies can't pillage! This is so wrong! They took the pillage flag out of the GOTM and it carried over into the SGOTM, so those armies we just built will not be able to pillage at all themselves. Ideas? Is it time to make the explorers?? What should we do?! It looks like MB didn't know when he put it out, so can't blame him.

Explorers don't appear until navigation, which is a long way off. I think we're going to have to do this with brute force. Just keep building cities and units, and fight defensively until we are out of land and need another city.

Expect a wave of pink units as the French get their GA.

(boggles) Our armies can't pillage! This is so wrong! They took the pillage flag out of the GOTM and it carried over into the SGOTM, so those armies we just built will not be able to pillage at all themselves. Ideas? Is it time to make the explorers?? What should we do?! It looks like MB didn't know when he put it out, so can't blame him.
well, the armies can kill pikes and muskets so that will be thier job :) it would be time to make explorers if we actually had the tech that allows them (nav) but we don't, so no need to consider. the army's cannot go it alone so i image we'll bring legions along. don't worry, it's not a big deal as it's only 3 of our units.

edit: x-post :)

They are still the most powerful thing we have, so we should build them as much as possible.

Turn 0 (370AD)
It's 370AD, and we don't have maps or money yet.
We're 3 cities away from another army, with 2 settlers and 1 being made. Going to try and get all 3 up and running and an army started on my watch.
Take out English longbow with a legionary.

IBT
French want something. Don't know what it is, and don't really care.
loose a legionary on the magniot line.

Turn 1(380AD)
Take out french longbowman that killed our legionary.
Build mine nw of rome.
fort army in Antium to heal.
Send legionary towards Viroconium.
Send settler in in Ravenna to Viroconium.
bombard 1 bab swordman, then use vet legionary to attack. We win, and promote.
Vet legionary vs bab longbowman. We win, 2 dam, no promotion.
leave the last one.
send 2 units n of Pisae to join Spearman. I'm not sure, but feel this finishes our kill zone. If we had better roads this would be much easier.
See a French Musketeer. Hello there! How ya doing! Please go away now!
Rome now has 15spt.
Can turn sci up a bit.
Change Pisae from horseman to cat.
Hispalis would also be better making Cats, at least until it builds a barracks.

I hope no one gets upset by this, but I really don't know about VIroconium as a FP site. The key is to get as many cities as you can within a 4 tile radius to get almost no corruption. Half of Viroconium can't even be settled, and the ones that can be settled will be lucky to grow to size 6 even with aquaducts. We're giving up a second perfect core to be able to move a palace later, and probably not giving us any benfits then, and only ruining our hard earned RCP placement. Seems that it was placed with C3C thinking. But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

If we get a worker up to mine a couple of hills I think we can get Antium at 15spt, but at zero growth.
Looks like the only location to claim the incense is RCP-5 spaces away from Viroconium, making it the closest city in the FP ring. It's going to be about 25% more corrupt then if it was RCP-4.

IBT
russian longbow falls to our legionary.
Veii Settler - > Settler
Ravenna Spear - > Catapult
Hispalis Cat - > Cat
London Builds Sun Tzu's. They may not be as easy as first though.
Russians, Germans, Americans, and Babs switch to Leo's.

Turn 2 (390AD)
Elite Legionary takes out bab sword.
Elite Legionary vs vet bab longbowman We win, but are redlined.
Do something stupid and accidently move all units out of Viroconium on a misclick. Send a spear from Byzantium to make up for it... or try to, until I realize there is no road. (rolls eyes) That's it for me trying to play tonight. Saving here, and will finish on the morrow.
Wake vet legionary in veii, swapping him for a 2hp unit so it can heal. Use him to plug up a hole in the line.

IBT
bab longbowman falls to our legionary and he goes elite.
then bab swordman kills him.
we win another against the babs
win against enlighs longbow goes elite
same unit win against english longbow
antium, Cumae, Pompeii, Legionary -> Legionary
lutetia baracks -> Legionary (city needs major worker attention)
French building Leos


Turn 3 (400AD)
vet legionary takes out bab spear, lossing 1hp.
bomb some units.
REG?! horseman vs reg bab longbowman - we win, no damage.
Send a legionary back into Viroconium.
Keep the settler in Rome for now.


IBT
Bab sword attacks vei and falls.
bab longbowman falls to our spear. That stack is now gone. Got another one right behind them.
And greeks are moving about some settler pairs.
Lugdunum catapult - > cat

Turn 4 (410AD)
Bombard some units around Lugdunum. Get the musketer down to 1hp, and let him decide if he attacks or leaves instead of leaving a unit exposed. We could really use some roads on these attack zones.
Shuffle some healthy and healing units around.
Move a settler to Viroconium. Is there to replace razed cities.
Use our army to take out greek hoplite and settler combo.
was a long battle, but we won. Disband workers. (This hurts everytime)
Use Legionary to take out French longbowman. Move settler to follow him.
Wake Legionary in Byzantium to take out bab swordman. These guys are everywhere! We win, 2 dam.
MM so we can get the library in Rome this turn! Took 5 mins and some major tile sharing to get it done, but it worked.;)
Take a turn off a Legionary in Pompeii but its worth it IMHO.

IBT
babs move in units all over the place. Russians moving alot of units too. Seeing more Musketeers showing up. Seems they're not going after Pisae now.

Rome Lib - > Legionary
Pisae Cat - > cat
The Gate Wall - > Worker I think this city should train mainly workers.
Viroconium Legionary - > Legionary
Pulling -8gpt with 16 gold in the bank. But we get Map Making next turn.

Turn 5 (420AD)
Bombard bab longbowman near Veii.
Do it again to another one.
vet Legionary takes out first bab, taking 2 dam. No promo.
use Horseman to take out second longbowman. No dam, and he promotes to vet.
Use vet legionary to take out bombard bowman. We win, 1 dam.
Bomb bab bowman on a hill. Second one misses.
Have to move a legionary back towards the core a bit... he's out to far, and we need cats for those musketeers.
Change Byzantium from Temple to catapult. If it flips, it flips. We need a road.
Wake the army in Antium and send him 1 s. Yep, no pillage.
bombard hoplite and russian spear near Lugdunum.
Wake Legionary in Viroconium and send him to Byzantium.

IBT
chop forest in viroconum
babs move some units.
Russia wants peace.
lord there's alot more of them then us.
Map Making comes in.
Have to turn sci down to get some gold built up. To big of a loss. Is either 26 turns at +2 gold, or +9 gold at 40 turns. Choose 40 turns.
Veii Settler - > Settler
Antium Legionary - > Legionary
Antium is going to starve unless we can get rid of those musketeers.

Turn 6 (430AD)
We need some cats up towards the north, but there's no roads to get them there quickly enough.
Bombard bab longbowman near Veii. Hey! There's an american next to him.When did they show up? Looks like everyone is at war, and at our doorstep now. That must mean America and the Babs declared peace.
Moves some cats from Lugdunum to Viroconum.
vet legionary falls to bab bowman. Second Legionary falls to the same bowman, and he goes elite! Send a legionary from ANtium to Rome, then use the legionary in Rome to take out Bowman and he still redlines! Talk about Killer Spearman syndrome.
The game crashes! I try to play it out as before, and get about the same results. I think a bombardment didn't go through.




IBT
units move all around, no attacks.
Looks like Russia has a RoP with France.
Rome Legionary - > Legionary
Ravenna Cat - > Legionary
Hispalis Cat - > Cat
Byzantium Cat -> Cat Still need a road, but working on it.


Turn 7(440AD)
Kill bab pikeman near VIroconum. Disband 2 workers from the settler. (sighs)
Use army to kill a muskteer north of Antium. Looks like he lost 2 hps.
Legionary kills russian longbowman south of novgord. Looses 2hps
Kill bombard reg american pikeman out in the open of our kill zone. Redlined, but go elite. SHould have used hormsman instead of legionary, but he probably would have died.
MM to get Cumae up to 10 SPT, and can still keep Rome at 16 SPT instead of 18, at 1fpt. Feel pretty good about that... about the only thing this turn log.
Use ARmy to take out Russian Settler/Pike combo. Disband workers.


IBT
legionary falls in byzantium, but second one survives and promotes.
legionary falls to longbowman in kill zone.
Cumae, Pompei, Legionary -> Legionary
Lugdunum Cat - > Cat


Turn 8 (450AD)
Trajan horse takes out Musketeer south of The Gate Was painful, but he dies.
Vet legionary takes out bombarded french pike near Lugdunum
3hp Elite Legionary takes out reg bab sword near Byzantium, and is redlined. 1 vet legionary at full strength plus him left against 1 bab swordman. We'll keep the city.
Vet horseman vs 1hp reg bab longbowman in kill zone. He goes elite and moves back
Found Gonzomonium.
Found Lunacantorium on Incence. Going to be hard to hook up to the empire.
Maximus Maulers takes out Musketeer in Rouen, and a spearman is left.
Feel stupid about making the Gate a worker city and change it to Catapult
I missed my goal of making that 16th city by about 4 turns. It was just to violent to get a good pair out there.

Final Thoughts:
Good city locations are slim, and are limited to the south due to the high amount of attacks towards the north.
It's a defensive game. Really. Most of the units I'm seeing are defensive based units.:p
I wish there was more I could say as I pass it off, but basically it boils down to making 2 kill zones in the northern area, and working our way towards the east and south. If we can clear out everything east and south of Tblisi and make it Roman this game will be much easier. Not having much trouble there, but that's the only way I can feel we can safely expand at this point, and it will make it so we're only fighting a 1 front war, albiet a larger front then we could have wanted.

Red Dot on photo are good city cites. Best one is Rouen, that's the northern most red dot. Notice all the units who aren't ours? There were ALOT more.

Was fun, but tough.... Good luck, you're going to need it!

Eye candy for the masses! (Okay, so I'm used to more people watching over in TDG.:p)

BTW- I think we're one of the faster teams that are playing the varient.

nicely played alerum, seems our killing zones are working well. looks like bede is up!

edit: also, looks like denyd had more foresight that i in regards to england :lol: Sun's would help a lot in this game but now that france has muskets, we may start to get seriously pinched. hopefully they all start getting on each others nerves again and we can take advantage of it.

Nicely done, gents.

I see it and will pick and play tomorow.

Try to clear the SE. Advance north slowly.

reading some of the grumpy old men of all war threads (which, btw, is now required reading for all players in this game :) ), i think it's critical that 1 of our army's heads north with a couple of horses and starts pillaging around Paris. completely cut it off from the rest of her empire. we need France to get weaker.

it's also critical that we get cities on hills with walls near Dover and Novgorod. After that, we go for Tblisi and Lagash while the army in the E takes care of Corinth. we need to take pressure off the core or we're going to crumble too fast.

re: research: do we have currency? imho, we need it before construction as markets will help sooner than aqueducts.

hehehehe... The Grumpy Old Man series is about the only ones that I lurk anymore.;) I've followed them up since the start of their little adventures... already at Sid, and I hope they stick with the Mayan start.;)

Remember, that our armies CANNOT pillage. We can use it as a shield for some horseman to go pillaging, but they can't. I aggree we need to reduce Frances ability to make units quickly.

I *THINK* we've already research construction, and the only thing left to get us out of the AA is Currency.

Weeee - we're almost ready to be able to read spoiler # 1

Who's the lucky victim who's up?

Not me again, I hope :ar15:

Denyd
G-man
Alerum - Just played
Bede - Up
R&L - On Deck
Bugs

Will play and post tonight. Sorry for the delay...

It's okay Bede, take your time. It's going to be ROUGH going during your turns. Need to get some pillaging units out there... maybe buidl some spears just for that purpose... no attacks, just pillage... maybe a spear with an army, and send 3 combos like that out?

It's okay Bede, take your time. It's going to be ROUGH going during your turns. Need to get some pillaging units out there... maybe buidl some spears just for that purpose... no attacks, just pillage... maybe a spear with an army, and send 3 combos like that out?
actually, alerum, if you took a horse, the army could move, and then the horse could pillage, then move under the army. should work very nicely to cut a gaping hole in the french as quickly as possible.

Your right... the reason I said spear first because I was thinking of sending him alone, and wanted the high defense. I bow to your expertiese.;)

East

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM3Bugsy550ADeast.jpg


North

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM3Bugsy550ADnorth.jpg

West

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM3Bugsy550ADwest.jpg

SGOTM3

450-550AD

Tough doesn't describe it. Took an hour before I could press enter to kick this off.

It was not the best of times, nor was it the worst of times.. Built three towns, two northwest, one south of Virconium. Razed Oxford. Rouen's spear upgraded to musketeer on interturn so army pulled back to heal.

Americans and Babylonians started sending knights and pikes and longbows from NW, French sent knights at The Gates, there has been a constant stream of settlers (Russians, Americans and French). Killed 'em all. Octavian was spawned in a battle with American knights and escaped to The Gates, though the escorting swords were killed and one catapault captured. Two armies are moving on the French cities (one north, one east) with pillaging swords attached. Horsemen were built and dispatched north and east. Have not reached their covering armies yet. There is an army in The Gates and another at Lunacantorium.

We aren't on the offensive but are doing pretty well at killing invaders.

Germans built Sistine, French Copernicus, Americans Leonardo's.

There is a settler awaiting orders in Virconium.

Not much was built other than legions, 2 settlers and 2 workers.

Roster check:
R&L - UP
Bugs - on deck
Denyd
G-man
Alerum
Bede

nice set bede :) bloody knuckles all around, eh?

Yes, very nice... glad you were able to get a pillaging group out into french lands. That was probably the most important thing we'll do in the next few rounds.

Keep at the defense. We will reach a point where the scales will tip in our favor. Just keep building settlers and killing invaders.

Very nice work Brother Bede:

As for our future, I think we will need to consolidate the south ASAP and head north. With knights already on the board and muskets in France, the world is not far from cavalry. We've been able to do pretty good so far against knights, MDI & LB (Level 4 attackers), but once cavalry is on the board (with attack of 6) we'll become little more than ground beef.

While I agree that pillaging would help reduce France's production, if she gets cavalry we're toast. It's getting close to damn the torpedos, full speed ahead time.

Edit: X-post with Bugs: Beg to differ fine sir. Against a single opponent that's quite true, but with the continuing waves that's not likely to happen. We faced the Greek & Babylonian golden ages and fought off their waves of units. We're soon to be facing waves of French LB & Knights as they are in their GA. After that Russian Cossacks will be showing up in mass. We have to start moving forward ASAP.

What we want to get to is critical mass. Our production is greater than the production of our enemies. Usually in AW you keep the cities you conquer, which gets you to critical mass quicker. Think about how many times we've razed cities to our southeast in the former Greek lands. You'll know when we've reached critical mass. Things will suddenly starting getting a lot easier.


Edit - another thought - we may want to build a galley and get a unit over to the other continent and get them on a war footing. Right now they're just building lots of infrastructure.

Nice turn set Bede, although compared to your usual write ups, this one left me wanting more... :sad:
Thanks for the maps.

Given the four armies, and the available leader, if I can pop 3 more cities, we can get another army, IIRC. I'd rather have a wonder though - Leo's would have been convenient for the variant. At this point, I don't see the value in creating another legion army. Perhaps knights, or do we not want to take the dead-end tech step? Any votes?

Although it still looks like defense will be the mandatory actions, I agree with Denyd, and would like to find a way to get the armies on offense, while defending with discrete units. Then again, given that our primary offensive activity at the moment is pillaging, perhaps the armies should play defense, while the dicretes go pillaging. It would also keep our support costs down. ;) (I say... I say, that's a JOKE, son!)

Regardless, acknowledged, and I will get the file tonight at home.

[butt in mode] Anyone else find Bugsy's opinion set against his sig even mildly ironic? :mischief: [butt out mode]

MB - We'll take risks, just calculated ones. There is a difference between a calculated risk and just being stupid. :D Although I haven't always been able to know the difference. :crazyeye:

How about building an army and not filling it? We can then fill it with knights.

How about building an army and not filling it? We can then fill it with knights.sounds ok to me. we could also fill it with legions if one of the others gets smoked. with all the battles going on, we denfinitly will get another soon enough, though i doubt we'll get to a tech fast enough to rush a wonder :lol:

I aggree with Denyd on bring the hurt to France. Not actually assulting cities, but just killing units, pillaging improvements and destroying workers. Good idea on rushing the leader, but do we have enough cities to support another army?

Octavian is cooling his heels at The Gates waiting for an opportunity to head back to Antium or Rome or for an army to get destroyed so he can form another.

@R&L:
Apologies for the brevity of the report but peering into the mountains looking for incoming bogies left me cross-eyed. Promise to do better next time.

550AD – 0
Reset prefs & quick review.

IBT: Neocaledonium is razed by French LB after first LB dies. Legion lost to American knight near Antium. Legion defeats German sword near Lagash.
Rome horse > horse. Lutetia walls > cat in 7.

560 – 1
Octavian can’t form army yet, as not enough cities.
Near Veii, cat bombard fails to hit American knight, second cat from near Antium takes knight to red, vLegion from near Veii -0 kills knight, but no promotion. Reinforced by eLegion.
3/4 vLegion near Antium dies taking Am LB to red.
@Viroconium, 2 cat shots miss, vLegion dies taking 1 off Fr LB.
@Byzantium, 2 cats take 2 off of Fr musketeer, rest miss, hope he’ll withdraw.
near Rouen, army -3 kills Fr LB.
Send reinforcements E, Send Octavian toward Antium.

IBT: Legion in Viroconium dies to Fr LB, Am LB takes 3 off eLegion near Veii.
Cumae Legion > Legion, Pisae spear > spear, Viroconium Legion > Legion, Lugdunum cat > walls in 2.
German SoD – 3 each swords & LB – near Lugdunum. English SoD – 6 LB – 2N of Aesonesium.

570 – 2
Octavian to Rome.
@ Viroconium/Byzantium, cats take 1 off of Bab spear & 1 off 2/3 Fr LB, cat from Byz takes another off of Bab spear, vHorse -2 kills Bab spear & promotes. Disband workers. 6 cats transfer to Viroconium, & take 2 off of Fr LB. vLegion -0 kills red LB. eLegion from Bys -0 kills red LB.
@ Lugdunum, should I use eLegions to try & hold mountains from SoD? Sure.
Near Rouen, 10/13 army -0 kills 2/3 Fr LB, eLegion -0 kills Fr 3/3 LB.
Near Paris, Legion pillages mountain mine, army escorts, even though could go for kill on musket, would hate to get hit by a cav.

IBT: 3 Russian knights (1 dies, 1 retreats red) kill vLegion near Veii (hill + river).
Fr knight retreats red from eLegion -1 near Rouen. German SoD avoids legions.
Rome horse > legion. Antium legion > legion. Pompeii legion > legion. Byzantium legion > legion.

580 – 3
@Antium, vLegion -0 kills Rus LB.
@Viroconium, 2 cats take 2 off of Fr LB, vLegion -1 kills red LB, vLegion -0 kills red LB. Move rest cats to Byz in prep for musketeers.
4 Bab knights @ Aesonium.
MM Pompeii & add worker, pop > 7, legion in 3 vs 4.
@Rouen, 4/5 legion -2 kills red Fr knight. 10/13 army -8 kills German pike & disbands settlers. OUCH!!!

IBT: Japan offers TM for TM + 63g (all our $). They’re up currency, republic, construction. Accept. India trades TMs even. Japan & India met in 580AD!!!
Army in N wasn’t offered for move, and eLegion dies after kills 2 knights. :rage:
German SoD onto plains at Lugdunum. Bab & Rus knights swarming hills at Aesonium.
Veii settler > legion. Lugdunum walls > legion.

590 – 4
<save>

Sorry about the N legion... :blush:
So far lost 1 city, but killed a bunch o' LBs in SE. Threat now E & NW

When do we have to declare on Japan? And I may have missed it, but did we resettle the razed city location? Can we?

I think we have to declare on Japan right away, then on India in 20 turns, or 780 AD.

R&L are you done or still playing?

Still playing.

AFAIK, the only settler that I have was just built. It'll probably take 4 turns to get him down to where he's needed. I'm hoping not to lose Aesonium this turn, and trying to find a way to get the unescorted army out of a new city in the SE, without losing it immediately. Should be able in a few turns.

I don't think that we have to declare yet, but am unsure - that's why I posted the year and order of contact - to get input. Unless I hear otherwise, I'll declare when I start again tonight.

just to let the team know, i am out of town tomorrow night and saturday.

You might for some deals with Japan or India before declaring, though I doubt there's much available.

We really need to kill off those southern interlopers, so we don't have to worry about having to defend them as well as attacking to the north.

You might for some deals with Japan or India before declaring, though I doubt there's much available.

We really need to kill off those southern interlopers, so we don't have to worry about having to defend them as well as attacking to the north.

I'll look again, but I doubt it. Both were contact trades, so neither values our WM, and I just gave Japan all of our remaining cash. Without embassies, and no units to upgrade, there isn't much to spend on.

At the moment, I'm very concerned about the NW. The SE has 2 armies, and many legions & cats, so that's just movement & time. I had really hoped to do more pillaging, but it's not looking good. The German SoD should take some serious damage this turn. Incidentally, how does the AI move to a non-roaded tile with a foot unit, and fortify on the same turn... :hmm:

Incidentally, how does the AI move to a non-roaded tile with a foot unit, and fortify on the same turn... :hmm:
maybe it was roaded and you just needed some sleep :D

Definitely not roaded, or he would have taken Lugdunum. Oh well.

R&L how are the last five coming? I'm guessing from your absence of posts that things have gotten rough...

Things seem to be starting to go our way, but there are 8-10 each cavs & knights on the E side of the mountains somewhere, having passed by the eagles up N. Also, Japan is steamrolling.

590 – 4
<save>
India has 4 cities, up currency, republic, construction. Japan has 21 cities, of which 7 were of Indian origin, and has same techs as India. Neither will even sell a WM, let alone a tech. Both Furious. Declare on Japan in 590AD. Aztecs & Iroquois also on list, but neither has been contacted.

@Lugdunum, cats take 1 pt off of a sword, eLegion -3 kills sword, vLegion -3 kills sword, eLegion -0 kills 3/4 sword, vLegion -2 kills LB, vLegion from Rome -1 kills LB & promotes, eLegion to wine tile.
@Antium, cat takes 1 off of Rus LB, vLegion kills 2/3 Rus LB & promotes
@Veii, return all units to Veii from hills. Settler to Rome.
@Aesonium, cats take 1 pt off of a Bab knight, eLegion -1 kills Bab knight, eLegion -2 kills Rus knight, vLegion dies taking 1 off 3/4 Bab knight, vLegion dies taking Bab knight to red but promotes it.
Legion from Pompeii to Rome. Legion From Ravenna to Pompeii. Legion from Rome to Veii. Legion from Cumae road to Caesaraugusta. vLegion at Caesaraugusta dies doing nothing to a Bab knight. Settler moves out from Viroconium. Trajan’s Eagles -6 kill musketeer on hill. Legion NW from Cumae.

Rome & Ravenna both riding the edge of unhappiness. Borrow a clown in Ravenna for 1 turn.

IBT: German LB dies vs 2/5 legion on mountain @ Lugdunum. 2 Bab knights attack & raze Caesaraugustus (get 0g), with first dying, and second going red. :rage:
Rome Legion > legion, Cumae legion > legion, Ravenna legion > legion, Gate cat > cat in 10 (consider changing this to rax in 10). Get treasury warning. English LB SoD moves ever closer to Veii.

600 – 5
Cat from outside Antium to Veii,
@Aesonium, cats take 1 off 2/4 Bab knight & 1 off Bab LB, 4/5 legion -1 kills red Bab knight, accidentally move worker onto hill next to English SoD, :sad: (was trying to escape on road, and previous unit stopped after river. I thought we were over that!)
@Lugdunum, cats miss German pike, 4/5 horse to Antium, 2 red eLegions from mountain to Legdunum. :clap:
Settler reaches ruins of Neocaledonium. Legion Rome to Veii. Legion Veii to ruins of Caesaraugustus. vHorse from Antium to cover 1 exposed worker near Caesaraugustus.

Create scientist in Viroconium & take research to zero. Construction goes from 12 to 23 turns, but takes bank from 5g @ -3gpt to +7gpt. Keep lux @ 20%, as too many cities go to = happy/unhappy.

IBT: Aesonium is lost (2 legions, 1 spear, 4 cats, to English SoD, killing 2 LBs. Covering horse killed by red Bab knight :rage:, 2 workers catured by Babs.
Rus land a LB outside Hispalis, cause starvation @ Hispalis.
Chop finished at Byzantium.
Antium legion > legion, Pompeii legion > legion, Viroconium legion > legion.

610 – 6
@Byzantium, 2 cats take 2 off of Greek horse, vLegion -0 kills red horse, 2/13 army to Byzantium to rest.
@Rome, vLegion dies taking 1 off of German pike, eLegion -3 kills 2/3 pike.
Palmyra built on the ruins of Neocaledonium > warrior in 4. Settler to Veii.
@Aesonium, vLegion kills red knight, but worker had already been disbanded. I see that both workers have been destroyed. eLegion -1 kills English LB, eLegion -1 kills English LB, vLegion -1 kills 2/3 Bab LB & promotes, eLegion from outside Antium to Veii,
@Hispalis, vLegion -1 kills Rus LB.

IBT: American LB to red kills 4/5 legion in forest & promotes near Aesonium. 4 Russian knights arrive there.
English request peace, have 10 cities, 36g, construction, republic, currency. Would give all 3 techs +9g for peace. Sorry, no.
French CAV come out of Besancon & take forted vLegion on mountain to red, but die.
Rome legion > legion, Pisae spear > legion.

620 – 7
@Aesonium, 4/5 legion kills spear, 4/4 legion dies doing 0 to LB (darn pRNG!), eLegion -0 kills Amer 2/4 LB,
India is down to 2 cities (to Japan, now 23), and will now sell construction, but won’t sell WM. Buy construction for WM + 18g. Head for currency in 40 to get out of AA.

IBT: French vCav -2 kills eLegion on mountain near Byzantium. Rus knight dies taking 4/5 legion to red @ Aesonium. Many Bab knights & few Fr Cav go by Trajan’s Eagles.
Veii legion > legion, Cumae legion > legion, Lutetia cat > legion, Lugdunum legion > legion, Byzantium legion > legion.
French begin Bach’s.

630 – 8
@Byzantium, cats take 3 off of vMusketeer, vLegion -2 kills Musketeer, vLegion -1 kills 2/4 Fr Cav,
@Veii, cat misses Rus knights.
@Aesonium, eLegion loses 1 to cat -0 killing LB.
Reposition units.

IBT: vLegion kills an attacking musketeer near Byzantium & promotes, vLegion near Lagash retreats a Fr Cav,
4/5 legion near Aesonium vs Rus knights: retreats 1 red, kills 1 going red, takes 2 off last before dying.
Rome legion > legion, Antium legion > legion, Pompeii legion > legion,
Fr, Babs, Rus, Americans all begin Bach’s.

640 – 9
<save>
Shuffle troops. Get in place to rebuild Caesaraugustus. Move out invasions stacks for Aesonium and Novgorod (to combine & take out Samarra). Send horse N to try & link up with the Eagles. Move a cat to Lugdunum, anticipating Cav.
@Lagash, 2/4 legion -1 kills red Fr Cav, but will likely die to Bab knights this turn.

IBT: Legion takes 2 out of knight before dying. Legion in SE loses 2, kills cav. English settler/musket pair move into valley N of the Gate.
Ravenna legion > legion, Gonzomonium worker > spear, Lunacantorium worker > worker, Palmyra warrior > warrior.

650 - 10
Jerusalem built on the ruins of Caesaraugustus > rax. <save>
@Aesonium, eLegion dies taking 1 off of a LB, eLegion -3 kills LB, vLegion -2 kills 3/4 LB, and recaptures Aesonium! (1 hit on each unit was from a cat. Why don’t they work as well for us? :hmm: ) The 1 citizen is still Roman, so we keep the city, and recapture our 4 catapults. Aesonium > legion in 15. Use 3 cats to knock adjacent LB to red, vLegion from Jerusalem -0 kills LB & promotes.
@Lugdunum, vLegion -3 kills Bab spear – need to get back to Lugdunum to heal for coming onslaught.

Comments:
So far, we’ve always faced slow units coming through the East & SE mountains. This time we’re going to see Knights & Cav. We’ll have to hit them before they break through to the plains. This is especially a danger in the gap S of Lagash. Also, watch for and end run around the South.

I’ve left units to move at Veii, the Gate, Antium, and near Byzantium. I recommend using the 2 eLegions as follows: 1 to army & 1 to stack to S, or, both to fort in place, or both SE. The 2/4 legion hopfully will survive to get to Lunacantorium & become garrison, freeing army to move. My goals were Besancon, Rouen & Samarra. Try to get the horse up to join Trajan’s Eagles. You may want to use the Eagles to attack the LB on the hill, if you can get there without undue exposure.

India will trade TMs, but nothing else. We have only maps, 14g, 11gpt to offer. I recommend contacting the Iroquois, then the Aztecs, as the Iro border Japan to the S of India. I guessing the Aztecs are beyond them. Also, the Aztecs are leading the game, so declaring on them last would be good.

Here's the map...

Here's the point count...

Good job on getting our city back!:) Seems like this is getting rough and tumble.

R&L
Bugs - UP
Denyd
G-man
Alerum
Bede

I've got the game. This one will take priority over the other 12 I'm up in. I'll try and have it posted by tonight Pacific time. I like your campaign plan R&L. I'll try to execute it if the RNG gods allow. :worship:

I just played a nice set of turns - In C3C 1.22. Going back to replay it :rolleyes:

Second time around. Hopefully I can duplicate this. :rolleyes: I didn’t. First time I got a leader, but C3C is much easier to play with two movement legion armies. Not even close to duplicated.

Pre-flight – 650 AD – We don’t have any settlers and none in the works. Antium and Veii are switched to settlers. Palmyra to a Rax. Move a few units around. We really need some strategic roads running towards the fronts. Bump science to 10%.

IBt – Oh great! Joan has cavs. We kill a French musket and retreat a French cav.
Rome, Viroconium: legion=>legion
Veii: settler=>settler
Hispalis: Portus=>cat
Lugdunum: Legion=>rax

1. 660 AD – Trying cut a deal with the Iroquois, our credit isn’t any good. Our rep is shot. (1-0)

IBT – Busy. Let’s see if I can remember. Kill a Russian knight out of Novgorod. We kill a Bab knight then lose a legion to Bab knight. We kill a French cav and then lose a legion to a French cav.
Antium: settler=> settler
Cumae, Pisae, Vironconium: legion=>legion (4-2)

2. 670 AD – Move a mini SOD towards Novgorod.
@ Rouen: Kill a Musketeer, lose a legion to a spear.
Bombard a Bab knight down to red and kill him.
Juggling our budget, I drop lux to 10%, hire a taxman, and keep science at 10%, currency due in 18.

IBT – Lose a legion out of our SOD to a Russian knight. Kill a French LB.
Rome, Pompeii: legion=>legion (7-4)

3. 680 AD – Kill two spears and a knight. Novgorod is autorazed. Found Caesarea, on the heights. Start a wall.
Whack a Bab spear.
Use our army up in France to retreat a German knight.
Kill a French Cav
Bombard a stack of three Bab knights to red. Then kill them.
Gandhi is now playing a OCC. (15-4)

IBT – Frenchmen are starting to swarm. Retreat a Bab knight.

4. 690 AD – Kill the Bab knight. Kill a German LB with our army.
Lose a legion killing an English Musket.
Kill a spear at Rouen, Raze the city, and disband the five slaves.
Byzantium can be attacked by three French cavs. Lugdunum can be attacked by two Russian knights. I’m a little short on defenders.

Move some units and cats into the Gap. (19-9)

IBT – The Russians attack our legion on the mountain. One retreats, one kills our guy. Hammi wants to talk. Nothing new. Retreat two and kill a French Cav at Byzantium. A redlined legion on a mountain kills a French Cav. Another legion on a mountain, retreats a French cav, kills a French cav, retreats a third, before finally dying.
Rome, Ravenna: legion=>Legion
Lugdunum: Rax=>legion

5. 700 AD – @ Byzantium – Kill a French cav.
Kill two Russian knights.
@ Vlad – a pike with our army.
Kill an American spear out of Lutetia.
Complete a road to The Gate. (27-11)

IBT –Retreat a Bab knight. Kill a German knight at the gate. Kill a French cav at Byzantium.
Veii: settler=> settler
Antium: settler=>legion
Viroconium: legion=>legion
Gate: Cat=>cat

6. 710 AD – Science drops to lone scientist again.
At Vlad – kill another spear.
Bombard then kill an American musket and capture a cat outside the gate.
The French now own Sevastapol. :D
Retreat a French cav.
(36-15)

IBT – Rome: Legion=>settler
Cumae, Lugdunum: legion=>legion
Palmyra: rax =>cat

7. 720 AD – @ Vlad – Kill a spear and raze the city. Disband four slaves.
Kill a Russian LB. (38-15)

IBT – Lose a legion to a French cav.
Lutetia, Pisae: legion=>legion
Hispalis: cat=>cat
Byzantium: legion=>legion

8. 730 AD – Outside the Gate, get one hit with the cats on a French cav. Cats go 1 for 13 in the gap against a musketeer.
Kill a French cav with an army. Lose a legion killing the musketeer. Lose a legion to a Bab musket. (45-21)

IBT – Outside Lagash go 1 for 2 against Bab knights.
Lose a legion to a French cav. Retreat a Russian knight in the gap. Russia and France are no longer at war.
Rome: settler=>legion
Pompeii: legion=>legion

9. 740 AD – Bombard and kill a Bab musket headed for our iron. Found Nicomedia, over where Rouen used to be, but on a hill.
Start wall. Wake up Octavian and form army.
Kill a Russian LB.
Kill a German LB.
@Lagash – lose a legion – kill four defenders and raze the city.
Science back up to 10%.
(48-21)

IBT – Lose two legions near the rumble of Lagash. Kill three French cavs.
Veii: settler=>settler
Antium, Cumae, Ravenna, Viroconium, Byzantium: legion=>legion
Lunacantorium: worker=>worker

10. 750 AD – Found The Gap, right where you think it should be. Found Tarentum.
Kill a Bab spear.
Kill a Greek archer
Bombard a Bab knight in the Gate to red then lose an elite legion.
Kill two English LB outside Tarentum. (55-24)

After Action – Won 55 battles, lost 24. We only built 20 legions during that time. We need to get a better kill ratio.
We need to keep building settlers. If nothing more than to support more armies and to get our budget in the black.

We now have all our eastern cities connected with a strategic road net. Keep building improvements, and we’ll need some more workers. Once the walls complete, let’s peal off some workers from our new cities.

The Gap will face a French cav next turn.

I started heading some forces south out of Ravenna (there’s two settlers) to raze and replace Grenoble and Brighton.

We are one short at the Gate. We have two potential attackers there.

The two new NE cities, Tarentum and Caesarea, are actually connected under all that rumble.
The situation at the Gap:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM2_-_750_AD_-_The_Gap1.jpg

And at the Gate:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM2_-_750_AD_-_The_Gate1.jpg

And down at Ravenna:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM2_-_750_AD_-_Ravenna.jpg

The Save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/bugsy_SG003_AD0750_01.SAV

Denyd – Up
G-man – On deck
Alerum
Bede
R&L
Bugs – Just Played

I've done that before Bugsy... Was with GK: TDG too... it sucks more than I'll say here. :p

I think we're building to many legions and not enough cats. The secret to kill ratios is to bombard enemeies. We should be building 3 cats for every legion at this point. Instead we're building 3 legions for every cat. How spread are the cats? i see we have a stack of 14 to bombard, but do we have any other stacks to mention? Should probably look at the save to see how many we have before I said that, but I think we only have that 1 stack. Where are we? kill ratios 2:1? To survive we need to have a kill ratio of that per a civ. Figure 10:1 will make sure we survive, anything less and we're cannon fodder... which I bet the AI is close to getting at this point. hehehehe

There were at least 3 cat stacks: byzantium area, Veii area, Lugdunum and a few at the gate.

Just did a quick read of the log and nice expansion Bugs - I'll start on this later today.

I have a stack of cats in the Gate and in the Gap. There are a few to the west and one or twoin the south. Very good point Alerum. It is sometimes hard to remember the big picture when the AI start to swarm.

In hindsight the Lagash expedition was a mistake. I should have waited until we had a settler ready to replace the city.

Lagash was a smart move Bugsy. It's better to raze a city and let it stand as ruins then to keep letting it grow. A razed city is always harder to replace then any amount of units.

No complaints about Lagash from me Bugs. Nice job following through! :thumbsup:

THE SAVE (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/bugsy_SG003_AD0850_01.SAV)

Well the good news is we can now read spoiler #1 as we got currency and are in the Middle Ages finally. We also got another army and didn't lose any cities, while adding a couple of our own and are in position to add 3 or more cities next set while consolodating the south.

Turn 0 – 750 AD – Take a quick look - Switch slider to 8-2-0 to cut research from 12 to 5 turns – hire a taxman in Ravenna – Wake the Catapults in The Gap and go 1 for 3 against French Cavalry –

IBT: Lose 3 Legions to French Cavalry (French lose 1 Cavalry attacking)

Turn 1 – 760 AD – Defending Byzantium, catapults go 3 for 4 against a French Cavalry – Defending The Gap, catapults go 2 for 3 against a German Knight – Defending Tarentum, catapults go 1 for 2 against a French Cavalry – Defending Caesarea, catapult goes 1 for 1 against French Cavalry – Defending Caesarea Elite Legionary (5/5) kills French Cavalry – Defending Tarentum Elite Legionary (4/5) kills French Cavalry – Elite Legionary (4/5) kills German Knight – Defending Byzantium Elite Legionary (4/5) kills French Cavalry – Elite Legionary (5/5) kills French Cavalry and Titus is born – Titus moves to Rome to await orders – Defending The Gap Vet Legion (4/4) chases away a German Knight – Attack on Tbilisi: Big Red Machine (10/19) kills Russian Musket

IBT: Lose 1 Legion to German Knight (3 others retreated redlined) – Lose 2 Legions to French Cavalry (redlined 1) – Rome Legion-Settler – Lugdunum Legion->Legion

Turn 2 – 770 AD – Defense of The Gap, catapults go 2 for 3, Legionary (3/4) kills German Knight – Defense of Tarentum, catapults go 3 for 3 – Legionary (3/4) kills English Longbow – Legionary (4/5) kills German Knight – Assault on Hannover: Maximus Maulers (10/18) kills spearman – Assault on Tblisi: Red Machine (9/19) kills Russian spear and razes Tblisi, killing 4 slaves

IBT: Lose 1 Legion to German Knight and 1 to a French Cavalry – Legion (2/4) defends against French LB – Cumae legion->legion – Pompeii legion->legion – The Gate catapult->barracks – Caesarea walls->catapult

Turn 3 – 780 AD – Defense of Tarentum, catapults go 3 for 4 – Assault on Grenoble: Vet Legion loses to Musketeer (2/4) – Legion (3/4) kills Musketeer – Legion (2/4) kills French spear – Legion loses to French spear (1/3) – Legion (4/4) kills French spear and razes Grenoble – Legion kills American spear and disbands 2 slaves – Assault on Hannover Maximus Maulers (8/18) kills Reg Spear leaving 1 conscript spear

IBT: Lose 1 Legion defending Tarentum – 2 French Cavalry die attacking The Gate – Antium Legion->Legion – Pisae Legion->Legion – Palmyra catapult-catapult – 3 AI start Bach’s

Turn 4 – 790 AD – Defending The Gate, catapults go 3 for 7 – Spend 24g to hurry walls in Tarentum – Maximus Maulers (2/18) kills Conscript spearman and razes Hannover

IBT: No units attacked – France founds Amiens next to old Tblisi spot – Rome settler->legion – Veii settler->legion – Ravenna legion->settler – Hispalis catapult->catapult – Virconium legion-legion – Nicomedia walls->catapult – Aesonium legion-walls – Jerusalem barracks->legion – Tarentum walls->catapult

Turn 5 – 800 AD – Defending Tarentum, catapults go 2 for 4, Vet Legion(4/4) kills German knight – Defending The Gap, catapults go 1 for 5 – Defending Caesarea Legion (2/4) kills English LB - Assault on Brighton: Death in the South (12/16) kills Vet Spear – Legion(4/4) kills Reg Spear (1 LB left) - Settler founds Asti Spumante – Legion (5/5) kills Hoplite and disbands 2 slaves

IBT Legion defending Tarentum wins against German Knight – Legion by Caesarea defends against German Knight – Catherine comes calling but I decline here offerings – Lose 2 Legions to French Cavalry while defeating another – discover Currency and enter the Middle Ages researching Feudalism (due in 21) – Cumae legion->legion – Luteria legion->legion – Lugdumum legion->legion – Byzantium legion->legion

Turn 6 – 810 AD – Catapults defending The Gap go 4 for 11, Elite Legion (3/5) kills Babylonian LB – Catapults defending The Gate go 6 go 7 – Catapults defending Tarentum go 3 for 4 – Assault on Brighton: Vet Legion (4/5) kills English LB razing Brighton, sinking and English Galley

IBT: Lose 1 Legion defending Caesarea – Legions defend killing 3 French Cavalry – Pompeii Legion->legion

Turn 7 – 820 AD – Catapults defending Virconum go 2 for 3 – Catapults defending The Gap go 3 for 11 – Catapults defending Tarentum go 3 for 4 – Assault on Houston: Death in the South (10/16) defeats Reg Spear – Vet Legion loses to Reg Spear (1/3) – Vet Legion (2/4) kills Reg Spear and razes Houston and kills 2 slaves – Settler founds Hippo Regius starts barracks – Titus forms new empty army – Vet Legion (2/4) kills German Knight

IBT: Lose 1 Legion and have a catapult captured – Antium legion->legion – The Gap Walls->barracks

Turn 8 – 830 AD – Catapults defending Viroconium go 1 for 3 – Catapults defending The Gap go 3 for 10 – Glory of Rome (8/8) defeats Babylonian Cavalry – Vet Legion (4/4) kills German Knight – Vet Legion (1/4) kills Russian Spear going for our Iron

IBT: Lose a Spear & Legion defending Lunacantorum – 2 French Cavalry die attacking Tarentum – 4 Other cavalry retreat in separate battles – Rome Legion-Legion – Cumae Legion->legion – Gonzomonium spear->spear – Viroconium legion->legion – Lugdumum legion->legion

Turn 9 - 840 AD – Catapult defending Byzantium misses – Catapults defending The Gap go 2 for 3 – Catapults defending Viroconium go 1 for 1 – Glory of Rome (12/12) kills Babylonian Cavalry – Caesar’s Savages (12/18) chase off a French Cavalry – Elite Legion (4/5) kills Greek Horse

IBT: Three French Cavalry die and 4 French & 2 Babylonian Cavalry retreat in various attacks – Veii horseman->Settler – Pisae Legion-Legion – Ravenna settler->legion – The Gate barracks->Legion – Aesonium walls->barracks – Palmyra catapult->legion

Turn 10 – 850 AD – Position troops for the next guy

Notes: There is a spear, legion & redlined Army in Lunacantorum hoping to survive 3 French Cavalry – Trajan’s Eagles & The Red Machine have joined together to eliminate Greece – The Glory of Rome has a 4th unit on the spot that needs to be joined to it – there is a horseman from Veii trying to catch the Glory of Rome to serve as it’s pillager – Pompeii will finish another horse next turn and Antium the turn after, have those horsemen join up with Glory of Rome for a Pillaging run in France & England – There is a stack of 4 Bab LB SE of The Gate, not sure where they are heading – Death in the South is poised to assault Buffalo, when that’s gone send him up the SE coast to join up with the other armies heading north – There are 3 settlers in the south, pick good spots for them (maybe the team should discuss the locations) – I’ve moved most of the workers south to connect the new cities (out of harms way) – Best of luck to you Grahamiam

Sorry, I didn't think to do any screen captures, but I'm sure someone will be able to add a couple tomorrow.

ok, good turns denyd. it looks like this game is going to be a very long struggle. will try to play and post tonight.

Whew!!

Doing a great job dodging bullets, guys.

If I don't volunteer to write the spoiler Bugsy will probably do it for me, so I'll volunteer. Will be done by late tonight.

Whew!!

Doing a great job dodging bullets, guys.

If I don't volunteer to write the spoiler Bugsy will probably do it for me, so I'll volunteer. Will be done by late tonight.

hehehehe... why wouldn't you want Bugsy to do it?:p

Good turns Denyd... I don't know about you guys but this is the hardest varient I've ever seen, and that we've made it into the middle ages is more then I expected.

I was thinking about our position (it's not hopeless yet) and we've got 6 4-Legion Armies and once we clean up the south (Buffalo) and east (2 French, 1 Russian & 2 Greek cities), if we heal them fully they should be able to head north together and we should be able to roll over everything in our path, if we get there before infantry arrive (then our goose is cooked). Once the east is secure, we've got about 15 cats that can accompany the armies. We should be able to keep chopping up the attacks from the north & northeast with the cats & legions that are there, though we might lose a city here or there to a cavalry SOD. The key in those spots is city walls, catapults and 2-3 defenders with reinforcements available. Be careful to defend the iron and try to hook up a second source just in case.

As for research we're about 15 turns from feudalism. What next? Engineering would allow faster interal movement or Monotheism to lead us to Chivalry if we want knights. Once we get feudalism, we won't be able to build anymore legions (MDI & pikes from then on). Normally, I would have slipped in a library or two during my set, but what good is a library if you lose the city.

Good luck G-Man

EDIT: BTW, I was not contacted by any of the eastern AI except India and swapped TM's with Gandhi. When is the next war declaration?

one thing we seem to be forgetting here is that we can renegociate peace with the civ's we are not currently at war with. when you do this, they will accept gpt for thier tech's. imho, we need any tech we can get right now. libraries are ok as they will expand our borders, giving us some room for healing. however, with the advent of cav, this game is ready to take a turn. we really need to disconnect the french horses if we can.

are mdi's active in this one or were they turned off like in sgotm2?

I didn't want to contact the Aztecs or Iroquois, in hopes I wouldn't start the clock on declaring on them. I met with India most every turn to sell our TM for their TM + 1g.

Just a very future concern. The Aztecs are going to be a real challenge. With the current land split on our continent, I can see us eventually slowly marching to continental dominance, but what are we going to do on the other island????

india's down to 4 cities so maybe they'll go "poof" before our gpt deals end with them. actually, if r&l met them, i should probably declare soon. i think we had a long delay in meeting them so, in reality, thier 20t wait time probably already expired.

It probably did, but not for any apparent effect. I'd really hope that M-B wouldn't deprive us of the variant for a small slip, when our intent is pure. The last I looked (from minimaps), India was down to 1 city. If they have 4 now, that's a change. Regarding Japan and the Aztecs, let's worry about then when we get there.

IIRC, MDI are 4-3-1, so we'd be paying for Chiv only to add 1 to offense and 1 to defense (pikes) on our foot units. I'd say skip it, except that I think we really need the knights. Then again, we could save 1 step on getting cav. I guess I have no preference, given the comments above.

It probably did, but not for any apparent effect. I'd really hope that M-B wouldn't deprive us of the variant for a small slip, when our intent is pure. The last I looked (from minimaps), India was down to 1 city. If they have 4 now, that's a change. Regarding Japan and the Aztecs, let's worry about then when we get there.
i seriously doubt that. we've been warring the whole time, which was the intent. it's not like we've gained any sort of advantage from not declaring, esp. considering that the aztec's have yet to land anything of note and india is so tiny. i can declare on them during my 1st turn if we all decide that it's the proper course of action.


IIRC, MDI are 4-3-1, so we'd be paying for Chiv only to add 1 to offense and 1 to defense (pikes) on our foot units. I'd say skip it, except that I think we really need the knights. Then again, we could save 1 step on getting cav. I guess I have no preference, given the comments above.
MDI's are 4.2.1 so we gain an attack and lose a defensive point wrt Legeons. we still need to progress up the tech tree and we need muskets to help hold on to our assets. however, imho, without knights, we will be runover soon as the retreating cav/knights will start reappearing with newly built units, allowing the AI so gradually increase the number of attacking units till we can't cope. sorry for the depressing post but we didn't take her out early enough and we are paying for it (not a criticism, just an observation, as i don't think we did anything particularly wrong except lose the GLib race).

if we can eliminate France's horse supply and cutoff Paris from the rest of the empire, we may be able to bring her to her knees and turn this on them.

Actually MDI are 4-2-1 (better offense, worse defense and cost 10 more than Legions) and come with Feudalism and I thought about waiting to fill the latest army with them, but decided that we are better off getting our pillagers out there right away. The only real reason left for Chivalry would be knights, but MDI hit as hard (no retreat though) and would move with the Armies at the same speed (besides we have no uprade gold anyway). I'm assuming our research path is Engineering->Invention->Gunpowder->Metallurgy->Cavalry (that could take us 100-150+ turns at the current pace), so we might want to slip in a library build where possible.

I can confirm that India is a OCC and declaring on them really has no impact. They were ahead only Feudalism (no Monotheism or Engiineering) & Republic, but had no interest in selling it. Only Greece is still AA and I'd like to finish them off before they have a chance to move up. Actually, except for a couple of Cossacks, Russia looks pretty weak at the moment. Babylon is probably the toughest AI left on the island. Once Buffalo is gone, we can concentrate on the east (Greeks and a couple of AI colonies) before turning our offensive might loose on France, England & Russia. We should be able to backfill the south and east from future settlers.

Edit: X-Post with G-Man: We've got an army heading that way and a couple of horsies soon to catch up to it to serve as the pillagers. The French Cavalry have been 1's & 2's so far. Germany/America are still sending knights while France, England & Russia using Cavalry/Cossacks. Babylon sent 3 Cavalry early, but nothing but LB the last 5+ turns. We've yet to see any non-LB SOD from anyone yet. I think it's probably because we've been at war with them for so long, they never had a chance to collect a significant number of troops and have only building & sending for 1000 years.

I agree with declaring on India right away. It also sets our point for the next declaration, be it Aztecs or Iroquois.

Knights are still a good 40-60 turns away for us. We may not have to worry about it at all. Also, with the few horses we've got, and the fact that they'll be out pillaging, we won't have to worry about upgrades much. Let's pursue Chivalry, and see if we can pull off Denyd's 6 army invasion. I'm very tempted to suggest moving 4 of the armies on the offensive now, with one on defense for the core, and one to clean out the S and E. We need to get started definitely. If I hadn't screwed up on losing that legion with the Eagles (they were forted, that's why I missed the move...), then Paris would've been disconnected a long time ago.

Preflight check: wow! Latest I’ve been researching a 1st tier MA tech in almost a year :lol: oh, this hurts so good :D and I almost play in C3C :lol:

I don’t see MDI’s on the tech tree, so I assume those are not present.

Oh yeah, I do bad things. :evil:

Turn research to zero to see we make +26gpt with 43g in the bank. Start contacting our new friends :evil:

Note that India only has Fuedalism, nothing else.
Contact Iroquois, renegociate peace for Mono, giving them 18gpt and 43g. note the date is 850AD
Contact India, sell them Mono, getting Fued and 8g.
Declare war on India.
We can’t seem to do any research right now due to the payment to the Iroquois, so I fix that by declaring on the Iroquois as well. @bugs, you can forget the tracker, we're officially at war with everyone we know :lol:

Set research to Chivalry @ 20%, our maximum +gpt research we can do atm. Due in 22T @+2gpt :rolleyes:

Turn on hyperspeed.

IBT: German’s want to talk but I send them away.
Kill some cav, lose the Army in Lunacantorum, and then an elite Legion in Tarentum. Defend against a couple of German knights.


T1: 860AD Destroy Buffalo.
Ceaser’s Savages retreats 1 Russian Knight near Nicomedia.
Change The Gap to a temple so we can expand our borders a little.
Glory of Rome and accompanying Legion continue N, getting joined by a horse.
The Eagles and Machine group rests for healing this turn.
Elite Legion kills redlined Cav near Tarentum

IBT: Send the Americans away. Lose the elite Legion after he retreats 1 cav.

T2: 870AD Found Nicolopolis, redline a German knight, losing a Legion, and then mis-click a horseman near Antium. Kill it with a Legion from The Gate.
Greece only has republic over us so I don’t really see a threat from there. Therefore, I move the Eagles and Red Machine towards the French, with the Eagles retreating a Russian Knight.
Turn off research for one turn as I note we can get Chivalry in 12T @ -5gpt instead of 20T @ +10gpt. We have 29g in the bank so this will give us enough to research it in 12 @ max.

IBT: Lots of tenuous holds but we don’t lose anything.

T3: 880AD Reset sci slider to 30%, Chivalry in 12T @ -3gpt. Found Londinium and Eburacum
Leave Aesonesium a little exposed, moving 3 Legions and 3 Cat’s towards Samarra.
With the 2 new towns, we can get Chivalry in 10T vs 12T @40% (-3gpt)

T4: 890AD sorry, too caught up in stuff. Army’s are pillaging, looks like France is importing her horses so we have to cutoff the capitol.

T5: 900AD

T6: 910AD Kills are outnumbering losses by about 2 to 1. Have 3 Legions, 3 cats, and 2 horses bothering Samerria, killing 2 cav and retreating 1.

T7: 920AD Kill a couple of Cav’s and redlined muskets. Destroy mountain road from Samerria.

IBT: Aztecs complete JS Bachs

T8: 930AD Death in the South Army is finally healed and is now moving up.

T9: 940AD Kill more stuff, lose a couple of Legions. Pillaging was slowed down in the N because we did not load an extra horse with the Machine and Eagles. Eagles are coming home to pick up a horsy.

T10: 950AD Hippo riots (damn). Death in the South Army kills a musket protecting an English settler to our SE.

Notes: 1. The attacks on Lunacantorium and Nicomedia are constant. Also, every cav unit is using the mountain W of the horse tile N of Nicomedia as a gateway to attack Byzantium. I have 2 Legions there now that should be fortified next turn.
2. An Iroquois galley is trolling around our south quarters.
3. I have a settler not moved yet NW of Aesonesium. I was going move it to the hill tile to it’s north. This is incredibly aggressive but I think many Byz cav’s will die attacking that spot. Rush some walls when you can.
4. Chivalry due in 4T @-10gpt. I highly recommend we keep this rate up. We lose units and gain towns all the time so it is not a problem.
5. 2 pillaging armys are near Paris. Please cut off the capitol from the world before you start going after all the food tiles. I think France is importing her horses and cutting off the capitol will automatically end the deal.
6. Our core could use some more work. We have citz working unroaded tiles in the core. Migrate about 3 workers N to gradually take care of this. We need the cash to research stuff.
7. I have cultural improvements being built so we can push back our borders and force units to move further to heal.
8. 2 settlers are headed to the SE. They should be used to secure the blank area. However, 1 more settler would be nice to have so we can settle on the gold hill between Gonzo and Eburacum.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/sgotm3-bugs-950AD.JPG

note, i missed something. i was ready to shut down the computer tonight and i had a look at the F4 screen. Seems like we are not at war with the Aztecs. Not sure when we met them but we may need to declare on them soon. I have not introduced formal relations with them yet so maybe we're ok.

Tough luck loosing the army, but we'll get another one soon. Good turns besides that.

Denyd
G-man
Alerum
Bede
R & L
Bugs

Appears I'm up. I'm praying I don't loose this one on my watch.:p nah... couldn't... to many cities for that.;) Right?:p Anyway, advice before I tackle this one tommorow? Seems like it's going ot be a tough nut to crack, and not getting easier.

considering that the army only had 2 or 3hp's when i got him, plus there were 3 cav's right next to it, and it was in a city, i'd say it was pretty much doomed :) can't win them all, though.

as far as strategy goes, we need to relieve the pressure from the E side of the core still. There's an army in Nicomedia and another coming up from the south. use them to raze and replace Besancon. Then use them to destroy Greece. It will be tough going and you will probably not get it all done but as long as you get it started, Bede can finish it.

Others things were listed at the bottom of my thread. Let the Eagles heal to full strength in the gate, then take them and a horse (or knight :D ) plus 7 or 8 legions, and start razing French towns. It would also be nice if you could raze the Babylonian town to NW. you'll need a lot of cats to do it as there's at least 2 muskets in the town.

@G - Relations hadn't been opened with the Aztecs yet, and I believe that Denyd just started the Iroquois. I'll try to read your post this AM.

@Bede - Did you post the summary yet? I'm anxious to read the spoiler, and see where the others went right. From the discussion in the maintenance thread, it sounds like Wonders were the key, i.e. how early they got their first GL.

Working on the summary. Finish tonight. Got distracted by broken computer.

Nice work G-Man.

Sorry about that army I had a choice of leaving him out in the open (with 4hp) or moving him into the city and hoped the walls might offer some additional protection.

I agree with cleaning up the eastern front and cutting off Paris from the world. Not seeing any more French Cavalry would be fine with me.

The only off island AI that I contacted was India. So as far as I know, the clock on the Aztecs hasn't started yet (no contact, no start of clock right??).

The Ravenna settler should probably go SE to fill in the remaining space SE of Gonzomonium. The Veii settler should probably go east to be ready to fill in for Besanacon. We'll need a couple more settlers to fill in where Greece & Yakustk is. It will be nice to be able to bring all those catapults from the south to the front once we secure those lands.

The Ravenna settler should probably go SE to fill in the remaining space SE of Gonzomonium. The Veii settler should probably go east to be ready to fill in for Besanacon. We'll need a couple more settlers to fill in where Greece & Yakustk is. It will be nice to be able to bring all those catapults from the south to the front once we secure those lands.
there are 2 settlers near Ravenna so you get to pick another spot :D

Whew!!

Doing a great job dodging bullets, guys.

If I don't volunteer to write the spoiler Bugsy will probably do it for me, so I'll volunteer. Will be done by late tonight.
I wouldn't do that to you my friend. Although your writing is head and shoulders above mine. Must be all that time in the abbey with your advisors :D

That's great. We should probably start collecting settlers for the east. Once that's painted red. We can turn our attention to Joanie. By then all she should be adding are Spearmen & Longbows (let's get their before riflemen show up). Once we start taking from the French core, this might become a steamroller effect if we can back fill with cities as we move forward.

@alerum-> looking at the map, it appear Veii needs to be MM'd to be brought up to 5fpt. sorry for leaving that open.

edit: and luna should switch from a pike to a legion :rolleyes:

I think Besancon is the next strategic raze and replace city. We are really on a good role with building cities. They will help with research. When time permits we'll need to drop a library or two in our core. I think we should make a bee line to Mil Tradition after chivalry.

We'll want to plant a city or two in our far southeast to claim that iron and prevent further AI expansion there. For the first time in a long time, I think this game might be won.

For the first time in a long time, I think this game might be won.that's as sure a sign that rifles will be here shortly that i've ever heard :D actually, the only wonders being built right now are Smith's. I don't recall a screen announcing Newtons so, hopefully, we can catch the continent before rifles, but not likely.
i still don't like the number of retreats we have to give away. units are starting to build on our borders to the N and NE.

Alright, looking at the save I have a few questions:

1) Are we meaning to build those regular units? I'd rather switch them and loose shields, and make a barracks.

2) Do we realize we only have 12 workers and 20+ cities?

3) I want to get rid of Greece, and quickly. 1 less thorn in our side. Is that fine, or do we want them around for research sake?

I'll start playing as soon as I get at least 2 ideas on these questions.;)

Alright, looking at the save I have a few questions:

1) Are we meaning to build those regular units? I'd rather switch them and loose shields, and make a barracks..;)
i assume your talking about the reg units on our east coast. i was trying to get a unit in there ASAP so we can move out the vets to take out Greece. if you want to do something different, don't let my builds stop you.

edit: just be careful as the attacks are constant and we need bodies over there, especially in Luna.

2) Do we realize we only have 12 workers and 20+ cities? .;)
Where do you want them to work? do you realize we pay over 70gpt in unit support? do you want more non-combat units right now when we have 4 countries (France, England, Russia, and Babylon) sending waves of cavalry and knight at us? You will lose Legions and they must be replaced faster than they are lost. What is going to protect the new towns? imho, workers can wait.

3) I want to get rid of Greece, and quickly. 1 less thorn in our side. Is that fine, or do we want them around for research sake?
I think I addressed that in my notes and some of my comments afterwards. You have 2 army's in the SE. Take them up and raze the french town, then go for greece. Greece is only building archers right now and are not a threat. France is building a seemingly endless supply of cav and are definitely a theat, therefore, as described in my post, i decided to go for France. Cut off the capitol to remove thier cav building ability, starve paris, start demolishing that empire. I firmly stand behind that decision.

I agree with G-man. Our two most pressing issues are Besancon and Paris, raze and replace the first and isolate the second. Luna and Nicomedia have been getting hit by French cavs on a regular basis.

While workers are very important, it is also important to actually keep them alive. The scales are starting to tip in our favor, we need to keep generating settlers. If you can peal a worker off a corrupt city, that would be worthwhile.

I also agree. Additionally, due to the xenophobic variant, keeping them around for research can not help us at all. Not a bad thought otherwise, though.

Certainly, take out Greece, but get Paris disconnected.

@Grahamiam - Please post the .sav to the scoreboard. Thanks!

@Grahamiam - Please post the .sav to the scoreboard. Thanks! i attached it at the bottom of the post :) i try to attach the .sav's and upload the pic's to save space on my attachments. unfortunately, it tends to hid the .sav.

edit: oh, crap :) did it again

Never mind. I had meant the submissions page, but I did it for you.

I know that we work very well together as a team, but I am still suprised by the number of teams (other than staff) who haven't played as many turns as we have. Sure we're not in the running for any laurels, but out of 15 teams, only 6 have played more turns, and 2 have played the same amount, leaving 6 stragglers. Given our late finishes in the first 2 SGOTMs, I'd expect us to be near the back of the pack.

Never mind. I had meant the submissions page, but I did it for you.
thanks, i go called into a meeting and didn't have the chance to do it right away.
i prefer a brisk pace, i get a little sleepy when it gets more than 2 days between turns. i also tend to lose focus. i think the pace is ok here (about 30 turns or so a week) after the initial slowdown. hopefully, we can keep it up and knock this out in 3 or 4 wks :)

I like a nice pace in a SG. Play-talk-play. Keeps my interest up.

I took a while to get is through my thick head, but ignore Greece, the threat from archers & hoplites is minimal. We need to get rid of those other 2 eastern AI cities (Besancon & Yakutsk) first, while cutting off everyone else's horses. After Paris is isolated, one army stays and pillages the rest of France, while other one heads to any other horses to disconnect. Since we've got 5 armies, the other 3 should concentrate in the east. Once the B & Y are taken, the armies can head north. We should be able to finish off Greece at our leisure with cats & legions (make sure we've got settlers ready to replace their cities).

I agree with Bugs, that for the first time I see a chance to win this, though it will be a slog.

As I see it our short-term (Alerum & Bede) goals should be:
1. Isolate Paris
2. Raze & replace Yakutsk & Besacon
3. Fill in the SE areas with new cities
4. Finish research on Chivalry and Gunpowder
5. Build a couple of libraries
6. Setup for raze & replace of Amiens & Sevastapol

Using my handy-dandy little CRPrings tool (thanks again Dianthus), I did a little scouting and for those interested here are the horse locations we know of on the map as of now:
Horses:
1. 2SW of Rheems (France but not yet connected)
2. 2SE of Nottingham (England)
3. N-NE of New York (America)
4. E of Bablyon (Babylon)
5. N of Eridu (Babylon)
6. 2SE of St Petersburg (Russia)
7. S of Atlanta (America)
8. N of Berlin (Germany)

And for those who prefer pictures:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Horses.jpg

We should be able to pillage the top 5 without much resistance. So either Babylon or America is trading horses to France. We'll need to raze Rheems before they are connected there.

Excellent intel! We just need to keep the horses under our armies.

Nice planning work. As soon as alerum has executed his portion will pick up and execute mine.

nice review denyd. you put in words and pictures exactly what i've been failing to communicate. thanks :)

Spoiler up.

Turn 0 (950AD)
Do some minimal MMing.
Change Lunacantorium to Legionary from Pikeman.
I think we've already made contact with Montezuma because it says we have peaceful relationships with him in the F4 screen, but I've already screwed up enough that I'm going to wait til we know for sure we need to declare on them.
Change GONZOmonium? over from Legionary to barracks. cost us 2 shields.

IBT
cav atacks our legionary from Basancon. We die, but redline cav. He retreats.
Ruian knight kills another legionary near Nicomdemia. Tey were sitting duck, and got them with no movment.
Another Legionary is attacked by the longbowman he's left right next, but he promotes instead of being slaughtered like the other units left in the open.
Ravenna riots on me. Should have caught that.

Turn 1(960AD)
Bombard some unit near our borders.
Found Arretium.
Join Legionary into army near Paris. Use horseman to pillage and move near Paris.
Take out french longbow near Viroconium with Elite Legionary.

IBT
babs attack arretium, but fail.
babs attack the gate, and we loose a unit.
french have so many units near us.

Turn 2 (970AD)
bombard like crazy, yet again.
Legionary causes bab cav to retreat, then use another one to finish off the job. Damn, no leader.
Pillage and cut off Paris.
Start gathering forces for the assult on Besancon and Yatkutsk.

IBT
Cav attacks our legion and redlines, retreating.
bab cav falls at Tarentum.
Bab cav retreats and arretuim
bab cav retreats at tarentm
bab cav takes out legionary and 2 cats
besancon swaps healthy cav for injured.
french cav takes out legionary
french cav takes out legion in caeseara
Ouch. Massive barb uprisings near Eburacum. We didn't get the cities down there quick enough.:(

Turn 3 (980AD)
lite legion retreats a dutch cav. Recapture our cats.
Spend a good bit of time MMing.

IBT
someone unloads a longbow near our borders... is purple.
babs retreat from legion of arretium.
bab attacks our stack near samarra but falls.
french take out legionary, but is redlined.
cav falls to legionary.
cav falls to legionary in luna and goes elite.
french cav taes out legion in the gap.
second one retreats.
french cav falls at arretium.
Chiv comes in. Set to Engineering at 20%, coming in 22 turns, and gaining 10 GPT. 4 turns, and I should be able to increase it to get it in about 10 turns from that point.
I want fast movers. I don't see us winning this game without speed. Change all legions being built in the F1 screen to Knights.


Turn 4 (990AD)
Another round of bombarding units.
Pillage Flood Plains near Paris. Lyon, Paris, and Orleans shrunk on the IBT.
Another round of MMing.

IBT
ELite liegion kill dutch cav.
dutch cav dropped off in backyard
french massing an asult force.
legion army takes some damage but lives.
barbs try taking out our army, but many die. About 10 remain, spreading out.

Turn 5 (1000AD)
Found Gordion in the SE.
Legionary is redlined, but takes out dutch cav.
Move settler in position to found near iron in the SE. Use army as cover.
Kill the first cav I've seen in a stack, saving our unit from being open. About time.
Paris and Orleans shrink again.
Finish the pillage of Paris, or near enough. Send 1 army pair north to take the horse away from the Babs.

IBT
antium attack by bab knight, who dies.
same thing as before, but this time our legion falls.
russia is no launching attacks on the east coast.
bab cavs retreat to our legionary near Samara.
English want to talk. To busy.
France moves around, and barbs attack our army again, doign no damage to us, but they mainly die.
The loss of the unit in Antium causes them to riot.

Turn 6 (1010AD)
Found Agrippina.
The AI isn't attack right now, is a bit of break where I think they're regrouping for another on-slaught.
Bombard all the units that are close, no options for attack. You guys are going to hate how I'm just bombarding I'm sure, but I want to wait til we have Knights before I continue with attacking instead of just defending, and we don't have the Knights right now.

IBT
bab cav dies at arretium
bab cav kills elite legion
dutch cav retreats at arretium
elite legion dies to dutch cav at arretium
french cav dies to legion at byzantium
french cav retreats at tarentm
french cav dies at byznatium
repeat
barbs sack agrippina for 1 gold
Veii grows before settler builds, and riots.:(

Turn 7(1020AD)
bombard all units down to nothing.
Found Cyrene, just barely cutting of Aztecs from founding a city in our southeast.
Found Tyrus on the last spot in the SE. The only way left to expand is by conquest.
The new cities allow us to turn sci up 10%, and still gain GPT. We'll loose 28 if we go another one.

Sorry Gentleman, I'm going to stop here. I think we need to declare on the Aztecs, and it's about the time to do it.

Going to need to bring cats over to the northeast to take those cities. We have to many units over in the west, and for good reason. we have alot ot assults happening every turn. Good luck!

Here's the save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/bugsy_SG003_AD1020_01.SAV). Score is 794, only 4 civs stronger then us.

Ouch. Massive barb uprisings near Eburacum. We didn't get the cities down there quick enough.:(

did you happen to catch anything about Mad-Bax's "puzzle"? I'm sure that was timed for the player as usually, those uprisings occur when any 2 civ's reach the MA :)

edit: here's the pic for visual people like me :D I would save knights for 10+spt towns for now as we could always use more defenders. It's just a fact that we lose a lot of defenders, especially since we are facing cav. However, I like the thought :) We should probably get Rome up to 14spt if possible, giving us a knight every 5T. 12spt gives us one every 6T, while 18spt gets us to 4T.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/sgotm3-bugs-1020AD.JPG

Nice set Alerum. I certainly don't mind the bombarding, as it helps to keep us alive. Hopefully we're finishing off the red ones so that they don't heal and come back as a stack.

Your purple contact is the Iroquois. I'm sure that the only one not declared on yet would be the Aztecs. Taking a trade now would be good, but then we might as well go into AW mode. I can't wait to see what the Barb puzzle is, as it supposedly pertains to the next game...

Filling in the southeast was great work. We now have three areas to concentrate on: the east coast, the Gate, and the west coast.

Here is an idea. We need to consolidate our front further. Fight a holding action at the Gate, Tarentum, and Arretium. Use your attack forces to sweep up the east coast, resettling as often as possible. By moving the front up to the Rheims area, we will reduce the number of cities under constant attack from seven or eight to four. That will allow concentration of our cats, armies, defenders, and attackers.

the pillaging campaign is already hurting Joan, look at Paris, it was size 11, now it is size 7. Perhaps if she is weak, someone may want to attack her also.

Do we have silks yet? The Greek lands will give us those.

Gozmoium and Aesonium are named after players who were in the top five in GOTM 15 or 14. Cracker used to name cities in honor of top players.

Alerum: Very nice work in the SE and with the pillaging. :hatsoff:

I glad to see our SE is finally secured. Now we can begin clearing the riff-raff from our eastern front. With a couple of pillaging armies, that flow of cavalry will soon disappear. I do worry about having to face rifles when attacking, but hopefully we'll have cannons by the time we get to those cities.

Pillaging around Paris is sort off like getting the swamp drained before wrestling with the alligators.

It will also start costing her money which in turn will reduce her research and ability to cash rush anything. I think Joanie will be gassed well before R&L and me get to play again.

Roster Check

Denyd
G-man
Alerum - The terror of Paris
Bede - Up - The destroyer of Greece?
R&L - On Deck - The Destroyer of Paris?
Bugs

Spoiler up.

Once again brother Bede, your efforts do not fail to please. :D :clap:

Those were horrible sets. Felt like all I did was swatting killer bees with a really old fly swatter... I think our kill ratio was MAYBE 3:1, but 2:1 is more likely. No where near those 10:1 ratios I was saying we were needing. We need to move the pillaging armies onward now. I started doing it on turn 6, but it's going to be a while before we cut off all the horses around, and by the time we leave I'm nervous the AI will have it hooked up again... make sure to pillage not just the horse, but around the horse so it takes them a while to get to it.

Great report Bede! Felt like you were witnessing the truth birth of rome there.;)

Those were horrible sets. Felt like all I did was swatting killer bees with a really old fly swatter... don't knock yourself so hard, those were very difficult circumstances. that was a good, solid set at essentially AWE. nothing lost, 4 towns gained, knights on the way... :) we've built a foundation, now lets see what we can do with it :ninja:

edit: we may also want to start considering infrastructure after those knights in the core are built. I don't think we have any markets atm, and very few libraries (as was previously mentioned).

We need to keep a few units near Paris so that the workers won't come out again. Maybe even one army per foreign capitol.

Bugsy, hate to go off topic in the thread, but... Read your PMs lately???

:hatsoff: gentlemen.

I promise I shall never begin a report "It was a dark and stormy night..."

Now that I have composed the last round of deathless prose I shall proceed to play the game.

Hope to get five or so turns in tonight, the remainder tomorrow.

Would be ten tonight, but....Bede's alter ego has a date with Michelle the MilAd :eek: :smug: :blush:

EDIT: Sorry, previous comment about karpal tunnel was in poor taste...

EDIT: Sorry, previous comment about karpal tunnel was in poor taste...

:rotfl: :lol: But very punny.

1020
I discover an Aztec settler team in the SE. We don't need another nation with an outpost down there and if I wait the IT there will be a town, but I don't have enough force on hand to make a reliable kill on the covering pikeman. Not wanting to risk the army or the legion covering Gordium I will have to wait. There are also barbarians wandering around out there (the name is Bereu if that means anything to the puzzle-solvers).

Looking at our cities we need to get some growth in Rome and the hills mined and roaded to get to 14spt. Our labor force is working hard in the outlying towns but we need at least three back in Rome. Wake up a team minig a grassland at Londinium and will move it back to dig mines at Rome as the additonal production from the mine will be lost to waste anyway. We have the same problem at Ravenna so retask the workers there to go back to Rome as well.

Run through the rest of the towns and see lots of opportunity but not enough labor.

Turn research to zero as I am going to be extorting Engineering from the Aztecs soon anyway (as soon as Death in the South heals up) then turn it back up as I realize that we are going to be pillaged big time by the Bereu horsemen. Then call Monte up and take Engineering for 36g and Suffimentum to emtpy the treasury and knowing we will be at war with the Aztecs before the loss of the luxury causes any problems.

Fight off the Babylonian cavlary at Arretium with the loss of two legions and one promotion but an English cavalryman burns Aesonium to the ground. Barbarians pillage Tyrus and we lose the shields for the cat. The Japanese build Smith's Trading Company and start Magellans's. America cascades for Smith's to Newton's

1030-1040
Fight off American cavalry, English cavalry, a German knight, retreat two French cavalry at Nicomedia.

In 1050 ask the Aztecs to leave or declare and they declare. Attack the Aztec pike and nearly lose Death in the South but finally kill the bum and capture and disband two slaves

Continue to fight off AmCav, EngCav, French longbows, German knights, Russian knights and Babylonian Cav. Haven't seen a settler pair other than a couple of Russians that appeared briefly in the SE then scuttled for home. I an trying to build a defensive wall in the mountains facing Greece.


Half the world is in anarchy so Democracy must be pretty well known

Elite victory against Babylonian cavalry at Arretium produces Tarquin who forms Aequilae Tarquinis and loads with legions.

1060-1070
Keep fighting off Babylonian and English cavlary in the West at Arretium and Germans knights and French longbows at the Gate. An elite victory against a crippled Bablyonian cavalry at Tarentum produces Hadrian who scurries off to Antium to form yet another army. Debate as to whether or not to load with knights then decide to load with legions instead to provide coverage to advancing knights and battering rams against enemy cities.

Frenach cavalry reappear so its time to head the pillagers back to cut off the French horses at Rheims. Cannot seem to get untracked to take the war to the French or the Greeks. There are just too many enemy troops in the mountains in the east and coming at us in the west.

1080
Continue swatting at the various knights, longbows and cavs in the territory

In 1090 the Babylonians bypass Arretium and attack Verona, founded on the rubble of Aesonium but the city stands.

Run some defense into the weastern towns but there is only one healthy attacker left, an American cavalry and all the towns have at least two defenders and at least one catapult. Verona has only one wounded elite but there are only crippled cavalry in reach of the town

1100
Sling stones at the German knight occupying the floodplain at the Gap. Cripple him. Can't take him out as the army are the only defenders in the town.

The only good thing about this set of turns is that we we killed a few 80 shield units with 30 shield units but the kill ratio was closer to 2:1 than 3:1 Gained two armies and have stronger defenses in the west. Could not get on track to move on either the Greeks or the French. Too many mosquitos to swat. All the cities I can see have sprouted smokestacks so we are officially at least an age in the hole.

Don't know what counsel to offer to the next far better player. The attacks in the east have been nuisance attacks. We need a city in the Greek lands east of The Gap to cover the grasslands there and keep the mosquitos from getting into the mountains where they are really hard to kill. There is a settler in Londinium waiting for orders to move east.

Didn't get any infrastructure built as the swarm kept the towns producing legions and catapults.

That sounds like a rough set, but you handled the rabble quite well. But it does sound like you took some steps forward. Too bad about Aesonium, but those things are going to happen. I think once we get the French horses pillaged, we need to plant an army righ ton top of them.

R&L is up
I'm on deck

Edit - Looking at the score graph, we actually have a decent chance of finishing in the top half of the variant teams... if we can finish.... with a win.

Got it. Nice job fending off the masses. I'll see about building Aesonium 3.

I've been putting together an analysis of the scoring for the different teams in this game, similar to what Ivan did for the last game. I've also gone through and looked at who transitioned to MA on what turn, and when they got any wonders. It should be ready to post soon.

I've been putting together an analysis of the scoring for the different teams in this game, similar to what Ivan did for the last game. I've also gone through and looked at who transitioned to MA on what turn, and when they got any wonders. It should be ready to post soon. I'm afraid to look :lol:

Just a quick few notes - just starting turn 6, Besancon is gone & about to be resettled, Yakutsk will go this turn, Samarra will go as soon as I get 1-2 more units there. We have an added leader who I just found out CAN be another army, but unfilled - I'm thinking knights. Lastly, the Aztecs are bringing caravels in to the West coast from straight out. Feedback?

nothing other than it sounds fantastic :goodjob: not sure what we can do about caravels atm, maybe swarm them with galleys but we probably need more legions. i'd suggest we leave an army or 2 on the east coast with cat's in case they drop off rifles instead of muskets. but it would also be nice to have those greek silks...

Sounds like very good progress. I'd leave some units for playing a zone defense along the coast. A knight army sounds very promising.

Don't want to sound like a broken record but awesome progress! DId you already form the army, or is he still a leader? I'd form him before I attacked again.

Quick response - I formed the knight army, and then got another leader. We now need more cities to allow another army. I've left a lot of opportunities fopr Bugsy to follow up on. See below.

1100AD – 0
I’m only going to play 5 to get back on the proper turn count.
Reset prefs & review situation.
See the south coast cities with no defense, and a Russian & Iroquois galleys & a French galleon headed there. Move warrior from Gonzo to Tyrus. Move spear from Lutetia toward Londinium. Can’t rush, and can’t find any extra units to chain move from elsewhere. Looks very bleak.

IBT: 3 red-lined Bab cav die vs 2/4 warrior forted in Verona. American cav -1 killing vLegion in Caesarea. See that French are headed North, not South, and the Rus galley is actually a barb galley. Greek & Iroquois galleys are coming South.
Rome knight > legion in 2. (Don’t have time for knights.) Lutetia pike > pike in 8. Gap temple > pike in 15. Viroconium legion > legion in 4. Palmyra knight > pike in 8. Agrippina walls > court in 80.

1110 – 1
Cat misses Greek galley near Lunacantorum. vLegion from Nicomedia S toward Lunacantorum, but find no road in the ruins? Army + 2 cats from Nico to irrigated plain at Besancon. Should cause a food shortage there.
@ The Gate: cats take 3 off German LB, 3 off French spear. vLegion -0 kills LB.
@ Jerusalem: cat misses Rus musket. vLegion from Veii redlines musket, but dies. vLegion -1 kills red musket. vKnight NENN -1 kills Rus vKnight & promotes.

@Tarentum, cat takes Am cav to red, 2 off Fr LB. vKnight from Rome -0 kills LB & promotes. vKnight -1 kills red Am cav & promotes, return to Tarentum. vKnight from Caesarea to hill South of musketeer.
@Gap, cats take 1 off of Fr LB. eLegion -0 kills LB.
@Byzantium, cats take 3 off Gr LB, 2 off Rus Knight. vLegion -0 kills red LB. eLegion -2 retreats Knight. :blush: Should have used a wounded knight.
Workers Chop @ Hispalis. Spear forts Nicopolis.
<save… 6 hours later…>
Upgrade spear in Ravenna to Pike. Knight from Viriconium to Rome. Move settler East.

IBT: French drop cav at Cumae. 5/5 Knight @ Tarentum on hill dies to 4/4 German knight -3. Bab cav toward Jerusalem.
Antium knight > pike in 3. Cumae legion > knight in 7. Pompeii legion > knight in 7. Hispalis rax > pike in 8. Lugdunum legion > knight in 12. Londinium cat > cat in 10. Cyrene walls > cat in 20. Tyrus cat > cat in 10.

1120 – 2
@The Gate, cats take 3 off German vKnight, vLegion -2 kills Fr spear, 4/5 knight from Tarentum -2 kills red knight.
@Caesarea, cats miss musketeer in grass, eLegion from Antium -0 kills red knight, vKnight from Antium -3 kills Musketeer,
@Arretium, cats take 3 off vCav, 1 off rCav, eLegion from Verona -1 retreats Bab cav taking red, 4/5 knight from Verona -1 kills red cav,
@Byzantium, cats take 2 off Greek rLB, vLegion -0 kills red LB, vLegion -3 kills vLB, 3/5 legion back to Byz. 2 eKnights from Byz to Rome.
@Besancon, cats miss, <save> Savages -3 kill musketeer,
@Pompeii, vLegion dies taking 3 off Fr Cav, vKnight from Rome -0 kills Fr Cav.
@Rome, knight makes bad move net nil, eLegion to Antium,
@Gordium, cat to Gordium, takes 1 off Greek vGalley.
Upgrade spear in Pisae to pike, settler to Byz,

IBT: Rus knight dies attacking 4/5 legion -0 @ Arretium, Bab red knight dies attacking Verona, 2 more Bab cavs to Arretium, 2 cossacks @ Samarra.
Rome legion > knight in 5, Tarentum cat > rax in 20.

1130 – 3
@Arretium, cats take 2 off cavs, vKnight from Veii -0 kills Cav,
@Besancon, cat takes 1 off musketeer, Savages -2 kill 2/3 musketeer, raze Besancon, disband workers.
@Rome, cats take 2 off LB near wine, eKnight -0 kills LB,
@Lugdunum, eKnight dies attacking German musket -2.
@Nicomedia, cat takes 1 off 2/3 Greek horse, eLegion -0 kills res horse, creates Leader, Maximus. Maximus to Lunacantorium,
@ Gate, 2/5 Knight -0 kills red knight.
Change Veii build to pike in 1.
<save for night>

IBT: Rus request peace, are up Republic, Theology, Invention, 9g, 10 cities – No.
English caravel heading south, 2 cossacks, 1 Bab cav at Arretium. 4 Fr LBs, 2 Eng cavs at Tarentum. Hoplite approaching the Gap.Greek galley near Besancon.
Veii pike > legion in 4, Ravenna legion > galley in 5, Gate temple > legion in 8, Nicodemia riots > taxman.

1140 – 4
America owns Newton’s, so rifles are close.
@Besancon ruins, settler still coming, army & cats move to gold hill to rest before going after Yakutsk. 2 cats from Nicodemia take 1 off Greek eGalley. Cat shot takes out roaded mine @ Yakutsk.
@Tarrentum, cats take 3 off LB,
@Arretium, cats take 1 off of 1 cossack, eKnight from Verona -1 kills Cossack, eKnight -2 kills Cossack & returns, army -4 retreats red cav, reinforced by 4/5 legion.
Maximus to Lugdunum, headed to Rome as can’t form army. eLegion from Tarentum to Caesarea & forts. vKnight from Rome to Caesarea. vLegion from Caesarea to Tatentum & forts. vLegion from Lugdunum to Rome.
<save to have breakfast>

IBT: Aztecs offer peace for 79g +5gpt, up same techs, 12g, 24 cities (many Indian & Iro) – no.
Amcav arrives @ Samarra. 2 Eng cav redlined attacking Caesarea. Greek galley near Cyrene, Aztecs land knight near Pisae from West, 2 Bab cav on mountain at Samarra, 2 Fr LB @ Tarentum, English land musket @ Verona.
Antium pike > knight in 7, Pisae legion > knight in 14, Viroconium legion > knight in 9, Byz legion > knight in 14.

1150 – 5
@Antium, cats take 1 off of German knight, vLegion dies taking knight to red, vKnight -2 kills red knight & promotes.
@ Tarentum/Caesarea, cats take 3 each off 2 LB, 3/5 legion kills cav, vLegion -0 kills LB & promotes, vKnight -3 kills cav,
@Arretium, cats take 3 off of Bab cavs, army & legion back to Arretium.
@Verona/Jerusalem, cats take 1 off musket, eLegion -2 kills musket.
@Yakutsk, SoD advances adjacent – army, knight, legion, 4 cats. Settler 1 out from Besancon.

IBT: Aztec knight goes red killing pike at Pisae. Rus knight dies near Besancon taking legion to red. German & Rus galleys on East, Greek galley @ Eburacum.
Caesarea pike > pike in 8, Jerusalem legion > pike in 10
English & Japanese begin Shakespeare’s.

1160 – 6
@Caesarea, 7 cats take 1 off an Am cav, eKnight -3 kills Am vCav, eLegion -4 kills LB in desert, army -4 kills 3/4 Am Cav,
<save>
vLegion from Veii -0 kills red Aztec knight @ Pisae. Maximus creates empty army @ Rome.
@Arretium, 4/5 legion -0 reds & retreats Bab cav toward Caesarea, army -1 retreats Bab cav to Samarra, vKnight -0 kills red Cav, eKnight kills vLB, leaving 2 red LBs, and only garrison to take them out. :sad:
@Gap, 6cats take 1 off hoplite,
@yakutsk, 4cats take 1 off of musket, vKnight goes red, takes 1 off of rMusket, eLegion dies taking musket to red (promotes), 13/18 army -0 kills musket, leaving spear. :rage:

A review of city counts (unless noted, all civs up Republic, Theology, Invention):
Greece - 4 cities, 41g, up Republic only. France - 9 cities, 429g.
England – 8 cities, 543g. Babylon – 14 cities (1 Am), 167g.
Russia – 10 cities, 4g. Germany – 11 cities, 33g.
Aztecs – 24cities (4ea India & Iro), 7g. Iroquois – 15 cities (2 Japan), 28g.
India – 1 city, 0g, Republic only. Japan – 20 cities (6 Indian), 21g.
America – 9 cities, 88g.

IBT: Knight @ Arretium retreats from 2/4 LB, Greece lands settler pair @ Besancon just as I’m about to found, 3 Bab cav show again near Arretium / Tarentum, 2 cossacks / 2 German knights near Tarentum.
Hispalis pike > galley in 8.
Aztecs / Iroquois / Americans begin Shakespeare’s.

1170 – 7
Change Caesarea build from pike in 7 to rax in 4.
Change Agrippina build to rax in 4 from temple.
@Arretium, cats take 2 off Bab vCav, eKnight -1 kills 2/4 cav, 3/4 knight from Caesarea -0 kills 2/4 LB, vKnight -1 kills red LB & reinforced by 4/5 Legion.
@Yakutsk, cats take 1 off rMusket, Army -4 kills musket.
Corfinium founded on site of Besancon > warrior in 5.
@Corfinium, cat takes 1 off hoplite, eLegion -2 kills hoplite & disbands slaves.
Much shuffling of units & workers.

IBT: Germany proposes peace @ 11 cities, 66g, 3 techs – No.
2 Bab cav die killing 4/5 knight on mountain, 1 Bab cav dies killing eKnight on plains, Cossack retreats red from 4/5 legion on hill, Babs flood toward Arretium.
Rome knight > knight in 5, Veii legion > settler in 4.

1180 – 8
Change Arretium build to Temple in 48 vs Lib in 68.
Change corfinium build to rax in 9.
@Tarentum, cats take 2 off of vCossack on iron, 2/5 Legion dies attacking red Cossack, 3/4 knight -1 kills red Cossack, 4/5 knight -1 kills 2/4 cossack & generates leader, Germanicus. Germanicus toward Veii.
@Arretium, cats take 4 off Bab eCav, vLegion -1 kills red Bab cav.
@Yakutsk, cats take 1 off spear, Savages raze Yakutsk & disband 4 workers.
@Antium, eKnight dies taking 1 off German cav.

IBT: America offers peace w/206g – No. India offers peace – No.
1 German knight dies killing 4/5 knight on iron, Bab cav kills vLegion @ Arretium plains,
Cumae – Knight > pike in 3, Lutetia pike > pike in 8, Pompeii knight > pike in 3, Ravenna galley > legion in 5, Palmyra pike > pike in 8,

1190 – 9
5 galleys & 1 caravel on East coast. 4 Bab cav & 1 musket bypassing Arretium.
Germanicus to Rome. Max’s Blue Bolts (knight army) leaves Rome for Veii.
@Tarentum / Caesarea, cats take 3 off English cav (red), 2/4 knight -0 kills red cav & promotes & returns to Tarentum, eLegion -4 kills German cav on iron & reinforced by vPike.
@Arretium, cats take 3 off Bab cavs (1 red), 3/5 knight -0 kills red cav, eLegion -2 kills Bab cav (left exposed from attacking wrong stack :blush: ).
Start pillaging at Corinth.

IBT: Greeks land horse & Rus land musket at Gordion, Germans land pike @ Lunacantorium, German knight kills pike on iron, English cav -0 kills red legion on iron. Babs kill exposed legion at Arretium, Bab cav dies attacking Verona.
Asti Spumante cat > cat in 20.
Babs begin Shakespeare’s.

1200 – 10
Change Ravenna build to galley in 4 to have squad of 3 in Hispalis.
@Arretium, cats take 2 off 3 cav stack, Army -3 retreats cav, 3/5 knight -0 kills cav, vLegion from Verona -0 kills red cav, vLegion from Verona -3 kills red cav,
<save for night>
@Tarentum / Caesarea, Cav army -5 kills vCav on iron & promotes 1, 3/5 knight -1 kills 2/3 knight & returns to Tarentum. (Forgot to use cats this turn :blush: ).
@Gate, bring red machine back to heal & send out Trajan’s eagles instead.
@Lunacantorium, cat takes 1 off pike,
@Gordion, cats take 1 off musket, vLegion from Cyrene retreats red horse.
@Corfinium, vKnight -1 kills vLB.

Comments:
- Just got Enough gold to rush temple in Arretium – NEED it to prevent flip, (or can upgrade spear in Ravenna).
- Next player needs to play either 5 or 15 to get back on right turn count.
- We keep regarding Greece as weak, and their points are low, but they are up to at least 4 cities.
- Trying to get a road from SE of Byzantium straight E to horses. Also need road through ruins between Nicomedia & Lunacantorium. This second one is a movement problem for zone defense.
- Need barracks in perimeter citites for healing, particularily NW & ESE.
- Need to irrigate FP at the Gate to avoid future starvation.
- Watch Bab musket near Veii.

Units:
- Army at Tarentum available to move (pikes can hold this turn), suggest W toward Samarra, while letting Knight army heal (8/13). After the 2 armies take out Samarra, bring 1 army back to Tarentum & free knight army up for attack. Alternately, move knight army to The Gate / Antium to heal and go from there. Samarra has proven a tough nut to crack, and the attacks have been mostly from there for this 10. It’s slow this turn, so the direction may be changing.
- Germanicus is in Rome, but we need more cities to build the army. I’ve been negligent with settlers, but have 1 i/p at Veii. Perhaps a marginal Southern city could do one also for use in East.
- 2 eLegions available at Antium, but garrison would be cats only.
- See note above about spear at Ravenna.
- Used Cyrene garrison to attack horse, but is now exposed. Did this to protect Agrippina.
- If empty city can’t be invaded directly, then use army at Gordion to kill musket.
- Army at the gate can be moved N with or without eKnight to become new pillager, since no cavs in the area.

Here's the NW map:

Here's the SE map:

nice play R&L :) looks like we're slowly turning the corner. are we doing min. research? if so, we need to figure out a way to stop that or we'll never get to cav. anybody have suggestions?

Breakout at last!! Thanks R&L.

Nice R&L. Looks like Bugsy's turn to play.;)

I neglected to mention that there's a pair of legions on a hill just S of Corinth that I had started to use for pillaging, and that they have not moved yet, IIRC. One of them is forted, and as I found out the hard way in my last turn set, don't move 1 without the other.

Definitely doing min research with 1 scientist, no $. Money growth is slow, however - note my comments above on possible spending. We definitely need more than we have, but at the same time, could probably do with less money and more research. Unit support is our main issue, but we're still short of what we need. Perhaps we should turn those inefficient southern cities (the game, not RL... ;) ) into mostly taxmen and forget trying to build there as long as they're kept fed.

@Bugsy - I put a lot of comments through the move, esp at the end, so please take time to read it fully. :)

Nice Work R&L :hatsoff:

It looks like we finally got our own little corner of the world secure. Time to start expanding a little. I agree with G-Man that we need to speed up the research somehow (libraries) and to cavalry before the AI get infantry.

Have we managed to get most of the horses pillaged?

Just an aside on pillaging, if possible we should probably pillage all hill, mountain & desert roads to disconnect saltpeter (since we can't see it yet).

Just France's horses, who's been heavy on the LB. I didn't do a production versus wonders & research analysis, but it looks like France is spending elsewhere (caravels & galleons?). She's also likely taking a huge hit on no luxes since Paris is isolated - can't help her rep too much either. :D

English are sending sparce cavs, but not much total, Russia a very paltry few cossacks, slightly more German knights, massive cavs from Babylon, nothing from America / India / Japan / Iroquois (1 galley on W), and only 1-2 so far from Azteca. Greece is sending the occasional hoplite/settler pair, but has many galleys on the E & S.

I have it.

Goals for my ten:
Keep building settlers
Consolidate front in the east
Figure out how we can research more.
Wipe out all civs and win. OK I got a little carried away. :D

I like #5 the best :hammer:

Bugsy, you might want to add defending the southern coastal towns while you're at it. It looks like there's a few galleys milling about looking for a easy city to capture.

Just curious, but are we saving Greece for last???

I think the two Greek cities on our continent will become a pile of rubble soon, but I think their two cities offshore may have to wait. That would be interesting to leave them for last.

Wipe out all civs and win. OK I got a little carried away. :D I'll buy this option! actually, how's this for a little challenge... :mischief: R&L razed 2 cities, so you need to raze 3 :)

then denyd would need 4 (France), and i'll need to do 5 :D

These turns take a long time as you need to consider all the various moves. It is very much like a chess match.

Pre-flight – Check to make sure the game is in [ptw]. Double check. Nice set of forces. 53 cats, 8 armies. We’re strong compared to everyone but the Aztecs and Japan. We’re average to them. We don’t have any settlers.

Rome is at 15 spt building 70 shield knights with no growth. MM to get some growth and to get it to 16. Change Cumae to a settler. Change Hispalis from a Galley to a cat. I understand why we’re building galleys, but we’re already building one. A lot of our cities are set up very nicely.

Spend 184G rushing the temple at Arretium. Maybe that will gain us some room on Samarra.

Start a Legion Army (I named it the 7th) northward. I’ll join a knight up with it soon.

IBT – We lose a redlined legion to a Bab cav. Retreat a second Bab cav.

1. 1210 AD – Kill a Greek horse. Lose a legion to a hoplite, but kill him with a second. Bombard and kill a Bab cav outside Arretium, which has already grabbed the northern tiles it shares with Samarra. The Red Machine kills a Yank Cav. A knight kills a French LB. Kill a Bab musket with a Legion. The 7th kills a French LB. (7-2)

IBT – At Tarentum, lose a pike to an English cav. Produce two settlers and start two libraries.

2. 1220 AD – Lose a legion to a Russian musket then kill him with a second. Kill a Greek LB with a knight. Load a fourth knight into the Blue Bolts, then kill an English cav. The Red machine kills a French LB, as does the 7th Legions. (13-4)

IBT - @ Tarentum, Lose a knight to an English Cav. We have some Cossacks on the way. Russians build Magellan’s.

3. 1230 AD – The Blue Bolts kill an English cav. Kill a Greek archer. Begin the march on Corinth. The 7th kills another French LB. (16-4)

IBT – Retreat a Bab cav at the Gate. Joanie wants to talk. Sorry.

4. 1240 AD – Lose a legion to a redlined English cav outside Arretium. Kill it with a second.
@ Amiens – The Eagles kill a defending musketter. Then a knight can’t polish off the defending spear.
The 7th kills a musketeer. Move two armies into the mountains around Samarra. The siege of Corinth starts next turn. Spend 8G hurrying Nicomedia’s rax. (18-6)

IBT – Lose the 7th Legion Army to three Yank Cavs. It was on a mountain with 7 hp. Lose a legion at the gate, but he kills two Bab cavs and retreats a third. Kill a Bab cav attacking our knight on a mountain. The French drop off a Musketeer in our rear. Alex wants to talk, no. A LB out of Corinth is killed by our legion. (24-8)

5. 1250 AD – Germanicus builds an army. Approaching Rome, we lose a knight to a Bab musket and kill it with a legion. A knight kills a redlined Bab cav. The Red Machine kills a Bab cav that was bombarded to red.
Our two armies, the Blue Bolts and Tarquinas both defeat a musket at Samarra and the city is razed. Death in the South (DoS) kills a German pike.

@ Corinth – our cats go 2 for 4. The Savages kill a hoplite, but are down to 5 hp.. We lose two legions and a knight, then a third kills a hoplite.

We lose a legion to the Musketeer in our backyard (2hp left), then kill it with a legion out of Pisae.
Decide that a dead Cossack is better than razing Amiens so the Eagles kill it. Two more on the way. (33-11)

IBT – Lose a knight to a Yank cav. Build two more settlers.

To be continued…

Real quick, the galleys (building 2, not 1) was to assemble a group of 3 to try and fend off any Aztec troop carriers coming in from the West, as they've done once. Split up, they wouldn't be worth much, but in a squadron, hopefully they can take out a galleon.

Good job getting Samarra, and getting amiens ready. It's nice to see France foundering with an unconnected capital. :D Just don't raze it in the heat of the moment, and get them moving again.

I sent the army that was in France north towards Babylon to pillage their horses. I intended the 7th Legion to move into France to keep the workers at bay. I need to get a second army up there. I got turn six complete, but this is difficult. The Greeks are proving a tough nut to crack.

I have two galleys now. I'll restart the third. I just experienced the Aztec troop carrier. :rolleyes:

Unless either Team Akots or Team Handy lose in the next 30 turns, then Team Sesn has a lock on the spoons... :sad: Just from looking at their graph, they've had a rough game of it.

6. 1255 AD – Found Mediolanum, just north of the Gap. The Eagles raze Amiens. A horse in the Gate kills a redlined Cossack. (35-12)

IBT – No Attacks but Tarentum and the Gate will be the focus next IBT. There are three English cavs, three Bab cavs, and two Yankee cavs within range. The Aztecs dropped off a pair of knights in our rear. Oh, BTW the English now have rifles.

6. 1260 AD – @ The Gate – There are two Cossacks and two Bab cavs. Redline and kill one Bab cav. Lose a horse. Pull some workers back to Antium. Attack a French LB in the mountains and…
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Mountain_Leader.jpg
Claudius goes back to Rome.
We lose two legions to the Aztec knights. Our core is in extremis. (37-15)

IBT – Outside Corinth we kill a German knight and lose a legion to a German Knight. At the Gate retreat a Cossack and lose a legion to a Cossack. The English move three cavs next to Taretum. We lose a legion to a Aztec knight.

7. 1265 AD - @ Corinth – kill two citizens. There are at least three defenders. Destroy the rax and market.

In the core. A newly minted knight kills one Aztec, and a legion kills the other. Both promote.

Things are desperate at Tarentum, as our cats only wound one English cav. One legion dies to a cav and redlines him. The Blue Bolts come through and kill two English cavs., but are down to 6hp. A knight kills a remaining Englishman. (43-19)

IBT – We kill an English cav at Tarentum, but the Babs are swarming there. The Gate is pretty busy as well. Outside of Corinth a German knight attacks our legion Army and retreats.

8. 1270 AD - @ Corinth our 10 cats go hitless. I hope they haven’t started playing like the Mariners.
The French have planted a new city just north of where Samarra was.
Found Treveri in the ruins of Lagash.
@ Tarentum – Kill a Bab Cav with a legion,
Continue the Babylonian pillaging campaign. (45-19)

IBT – Lose a legion to a Bab cav. @ Tarentum kill an English cav. @ Caesarea kill a Bab cav then lose a pike to a Bab cav. At our new city, retreat a German knight.

9. 1275 AD – @ Corinth – Destroy the library and wound one hoplite.
Sirmium is founded on the ruins of Besancon.
Kill a Bab cav at Tarentum.
The Eagles kill a German knight outside Corinth but are down to 5 hp. (49-21)

IBT – We lose a worker to a Bab cav. :smoke: And Trajan’s Eagles are destroyed by a German knight. :mad:

10. 1280 AD – Wake Claudius and form another army. Load some knights into the 2nd Knight Army
@ Corinth our cats go 0 for 13. Press home the attack and lose one knight while killing the three hoplites and archer defending. Raze the city.
@ Caesarea a knight kills a Bab cav.
Bombard and kill a Bab cav outside Tarentum. (55-23)
Pillage the Bab horses.

After Action – I think we are stuck with lone scientist until we get to invention. By then we may have some libraries on line and enough cash to go more than minimum.

I am feeling less confident about our chances. I really encourage the next player to take their time and think about the consequences of every move. Like on the last turn, I thought I had everything at Tarentum covered and lost a worker to a Bab cav and the Eagles to a German knight. If you’re tired take a break. Right now every move is critical and even then it may not be good enough. I may have shifted too much of our forces to the eastern front.

Slightly better kill ratio than my last time. 2.5:1 But still not good enough. Tarentum, Caesarea and the Gate continue to be focal points, Although we now have units starting to slip through the Gap between Caesarea and Verona. We may want to build a city either between Verona and Caesarea or between Arretium and Caesarea.

There are settlers available to settle in the east as well.

Looking at the screen shots. There is a ¾ German knight at the blue dot.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM3_Eastern_Front.jpg

Here’s the western front. I have been bombarding units but not finishing them off since I didn’t want to leave cities poorly defended.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM3_-_Western_Front.jpg

Save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/bugsy_SG003_AD1280_01.SAV

Back to the top of the order.
Denyd – Up
G-Man – On Deck
Alerum
Bede
R&L
Bugs – Just Played

rifles :( now i'm gonna start getting sick to my stomach.

I think the tile the two English rifles are standing on would make a good location for a city. There is one just east of Veii that could clog that hole.

There are two settlers to the east to help fill up some of those now empty eastern lands.

This looks like it's going to be a very challenging turn set.

I'll try to stabilize the northern front, keep on pillaging, and settle a couple new cities to the east. I'm don't think I'll be starting any major offensives.

Not to bring up a bad thought, but is there a point where we just say banzai and throw everything at the AI and hope for the best (the suicide charge maneuver) or do we keep holding on until someone launches.

I think there is a possiblity that we can start to stem the tide. I'm hoping that the consolidation of the eastern front will help immensely. Before we were seeing almost a constant stream of units coming down the east coast. Except for the Germans that has stopped. I think tightening up our city spacing to the north will allow our cats to be able to hit everything coming through. That was our basic problem during the last three turns of my set. I didn't realize it until the last turn, that's why I have a settler nearby.

In hindsight, the same thing is happening between the Gate and Tarentum. If we could get a city on that hill just north of Antium then we would be able to bombard any units that are trying to get to our core.

do we have any non-threatened cities right now that can tear down it's walls? we do pay upkeep for them and maybe we can cut costs by replacing them with markets or something.

Our infrastructure does stink right now. I don't know if we pay maintenance on walls. I'll need to look that up. The problem is that putting even a few cities on infrastructure builds hurts right now. That may be part of the problem. I shifted too many cities to building libraries (3)

Edit - I just checked the guide. No upkeep for city walls.

Our infrastructure does stink right now. I don't know if we pay maintenance on walls. I'll need to look that up. The problem is that putting even a few cities on infrastructure builds hurts right now. That may be part of the problem. I shifted too many cities to building libraries (3)

Edit - I just checked the guide. No upkeep for city walls.
i guess i'm just grasping for straws here. the way i see this is that we can go on like this only so long. maybe we need at least 1 city in the core always building infrastructure. we can rotate between cities and eventually get libraries and markets in them all. probably something we should have done 1000 years ago :lol:

Yeah, probably a little late, but we should probably start now. I'm keeping a list of lessons learned in this essentially AW game.
1. Tight build
2. Infrastructure
3. Don't start AW game. :crazyeye:

3. Don't start AW game. :crazyeye: yeah, and don't declare on the 1st unit you see, wait till they contact you :D that was mine and it got us started on this miserable treck :lol:

Can't blame just one person... look at my "trading" earlier on. We'd have been able to trade if I hadn't signed the first deal I could. I think the major problem is that we didn't play this one out like AW until it was too late. Even with all the challenges we're facing, we're still doing better then most playing the varient, and as MB has said, this was to gauge how hard he had to make it for alot of people to loose.:p

Keep in mind that only 1 team has lost so far. Team Handy also trails us, and Team Akots is only minimally ahead (on the log chart, he's only 1 point above us, and decreasing, while we were just about flat). Three teams have won, and two were variant teams. In fact, 11 of 15 teams are still on the variant.

During my turn set, aside from the fact that I just couldn't seem to get enough units over to Samarra (Bab cavs kept coming up), I thought things were going fairly well. They just weren't going fact enough. Bugs did a nice job in getting Corinth off the map, and did plant a few, so we should be eligible for that 9th army now. The two biggest pains are definitely still Babylonian cavs (quantity) and Rus cossacks (quality). It's too early to say how rifles will play out. I thought we had way too many cats before. Now I'm not sure. We'll need money to upgrade them and the pikes. We've already seen due to the backstage troop landings that a banzai wouldn't even last us very long. Better to stay the present course, and look for attrition. If the cats are missing the city, then use them to blast the tile improvements: first luxes, then food to cause starvation, lastly mines.

Having said all that, I still think that our best bet is to pillage the connections to the capitals. Perhaps do horses & iron first, trade roads at borders as possible, and capital disconnects third.

Yes, we have to cut off the capitols, and resources... but we'll still have the problem of Rifles... from now, until the end of them game there is nothing we can do about that but bombard them down to 1hp, an use armies to take them out.

You're right on the combined arms Alerum. It is the only thing keeping us alive at the moment. On my last turn I got the Babylonian horses pillaged so that should turn that faucet off for a while. Once we get Babylon pillaged we can make the mistake that I made and move the army out. I think we may see some French cavs again.

One thing we do have ot look forward too gentleman... the downfall of communism in PTW.;) Soon they'll be switching over, and using their population to rush and conscript rifles. 2hp rifles are fairly easy to kill. There's going to be a window of opportunity between now and the age of aluminum, that' they'll be communist but not have tanks... the bad news is with the current AI tech trading rate, that window is only going ot be 30 turns.:p

OK, I got it.

Just a question though. Is it too late to abandon the variant and just go for a win?

I think it's too late to get the win without the variant. If our rep was still intact it might be possible, but we really trashed it good. As such, even if we get peace, we won't get trade or techs. Then, it wouldn't be too long before we got dogpile again for being so far behind.

I'm imagining that you think we can deal with them one at a time, and catch up as possible, since we'll have some room to build infrastructure. Indeed this may work, but we'd still have a very long road to catch up with Monty & Tokugawa. Personally, I'd rather keep the rep for being tough enough to fight the variant as best we can, rather than get "just another win" by abandoning the variant. We certainly won't be able to milk this one long enough to go to the top, or even get close to the teams who didn't go for the variant from the beginning. We're too far down the one road.

So, MY vote is not to abandon, but let's hear from everyone before deciding.

let's keep on chugging. there's some good lessons to be learned yet :)

It's a tough nut to crack, but I *REALLY* hate jumping ship until I'm already paddling water.... Lets keep it going as is.

I agree, let's keep pressing those lit cigarettes into our arms. I enjoy the pain.

Here is the update through 3 turns - no significant changes on maps

Turn 0 – 1280 AD – Wake a catapult and redline the musket next to Caesarea , Elite Knight kills Babylon Cavalry and moves to defend Caesarea – Switch Hispalis from library to Legion (only 1 infrastructure city build at a time), Send Hispalis pike to Pisae

IBT: Redlined knight defends against 2 wounded German knights and promotes – Lose knight by Tarentum to a Cossack – Lose a Legion in Caesarea to a Babylon Cavalry – Three Aztec ships on the west coast – Confinium Walls->Legion – Hispalis Legion->Legion – The Gate Legion->Legion – Cyrene Catapult->Barracks

Turn 1 – 1285 AD – Catapults go 11 for 20 in defense of cities – Max’s Blue Bots (14/17) kill a Bab Cav – 2nd Knight Army (10/13) kills a Bab Musket – worker start roads to the west – 2 settlers heading west 1 heading north – pillaging around Babylon

IBT: No losses – 2 Cossacks die redlining Legions & 3 Bab Cavalry retreats – Lunacantorum worker->worker – Londonium riots

Turn 2 – 1290 AD – Spend 48g to hurry a knight in Cumae – Elite Knight (2/5) kills Bab cavalry – Catapults go 8 for 17 – Spend 56g to hurry a Legion in Tarentum – 2nd Knight Army (8/13) kills an English Rifle

IBT: 1 Bab Cavalry dies attacking Caesarea, no losses – Rome Knight->Knight – Cumae Knight->Legion –Tarentum Legion-Legion – Londonium Legion->Legion – Trevin Walls->Catapult

Take a break for the night and will resume tomorrow – Stats after 2 ½ turns: Lost 2 units – Killed 9 AI units – Built 6 Units – 3 more turns until Babylon is isolated

Quoth Bugsy: Fight like mad dogs

Do you strike? No, sir, I have only begun to fight.

We are barely able to kill all approaching units. My hope is to be able to kick Greece of the continent and found a pair of cities in the east and release those armies to head north, while continuing to kill everything that approaches from the north. There are 3 Aztec ships (carrying up to 8 units) on the west coast that keeping an eye on. Hopefully, they're empty, but I have to keep units ready to attack should any troops land as our core is barely defended. If that turned into a stack of 8 Aztec cavalry, we have nothing to stop them from dealing us a potentially fatal blow.

I told you this was getting harder by the turn. I found myself playing a lot of "what if" If I move this unit to cover this area does it leave me open. How about if that ship has units on board. How many attacks can I see at this city. Sometimes I was wrong. Anticipated three moves and didn't see the fourth. Take your time Denyd. This is like the three dimensional chess they play on Star Trek.

I hoping to play tonight (RL got in the way last night). I can probably get in 4 or 5 more tonight.

I know were off track on normal 10 turn sets, where should I stop to get us back on track?

I'm going to send a couple of unit s south in case those Japanese/Aztec ships are carrying bad things.

Play 15 to catch us up.

@denyd, if 15 is too much, we can split the extra 5 :) actually, the way things are automated, I don't think it really matters all that much.

In this game 15 turns will cause a nervous breakdown. I think we're to the point in the game where you have the option of playing anywhere from 5 to 10 turns. With Alan's new graphing system, we don't have to stress like we used to.

Figure each turn took me about 30-45 minutes, not for moving but just pondering all the options.

At the end of my 5, I was exhausted, but at the end of my 10, I was pumped. Unfortuantely, I was also out of time. That's why I didn't play it myself. Whatever you decide is fine.

We'll just leave it to the best judgment of whomever is playing. Just as long as everyone understands that 10 full turns isn't required anymore.

@R&L, good thing I'm not a slave in your galley. You are a cruel taskmaster :).

@Bugsy, Whew. Thanks for the reprieve. I'm with you on the nervous breakdown induced by 3-D chess,

@denyd -> i will be busy with a b-day party for my sons on Saturday so you don't have to hurry thru it tonight. take it slow and steady as you wish :), but i'd like it by Sunday as i think i'll have some other commitments early next week (at least on tuesday, as i'll have to help my wife pack for thier trip to her parents).

I got about 2 more turns done last night (got a late start).

I won't be able to play on Saturday either, so I'll play as far as I can tonight and then post that turn for you to pickup on Sunday.

I sent some more units to Cumae. Those Japanese ships are moving in tandem, which signals to me they are a convoy of troops meant for us. I'll try to pick off a ship or two before they reach their destination.

I should have Babylon isolated when the next turn ends. Should I continue on to London or head back to see if Paris has been re-hooked up?

I had this terrible vision of 3 Armies defending our sole remaining city of Antium against tanks, infantry & bombers, while waiting for Japan to launch. :sad:

what's traveling with the army? maybe you can raze a small city or 2 on the way back :D

It's a 3-man Legion army with a single horseman. I can probably trash a lot of roads whichever way I go, but most cities I've seen are defended by rifles and 3 attack against 6 base defense is not likely to go our way and even if we managed to win we'd leave the army badly damaged and a sitting duck for any nearby cavalry.

ok, then keep trashing everthing you find. maybe we can organize a second expadition with a couple of legion armys and a lot of cats to be joined later by a knight army and some knights. i know it's hard but, after cumae, we have to start making headway north. cats and knights can take down rifles.

unfortunately, a lot of them are near our core so i can't even say that's possible to pull off.

At both The Gate & Tarentum, the cats fire everyturn at incoming units (French LB, German Knights & Everyone else's Cavalry) to chase them back north to heal. The only defenders in those 2 cities are armies and I use those each turn to kill a redlined opponent on a stack (prevents unit from leaving city).

Hopefully the eastern troops will take down Corinth quickly, I've got an Army & a couple of legions about to attack. Death in the South is heading to Cumae to help out with the new invaders. (The Aztecs just dropped a pair of cavalry and the Japanese have 2 ships in route with possibly 5 more)

FIRST THE SAVE (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/bugsy_SG003_AD1325_01.SAV)

And the rest of the turn log

Turn 3 – 1295 AD – Vet Legion (4/4) kills American Cavalry – Cats got 5 for 10 on Bab Cav Stack – Army (8/9) kills a Bab Cavalry – At Tarentum Cats go 1 for 1 on French LB – Max’s Blue Bolts (17/17) kills French LB – At The Gate Cats go 4 for 6 red-lining 2 French LB – Cats go 1 for 4 on American Cavalry – Red Machine (18/19) kills French LB – At Arretium Cats go 1 for 3 to red-line American Rifleman – At Sirmium Cats go 4 for 5 to red-line German galley – Vet Legion loses to a red-lined Bab Cav –Only 2 roads left to Babylon

IBT: Vet Legion kills attacking Cossack at Caesarea – English rifle lands next to Cumae – Veii pike->legion – Pompeii Legion->knight– Lugdunum knight-knight

1300 AD – Turn 4 – Cats go 2 for 2 on Caravel – Cats go 6 for 13 to red-line American & Bab Cavelry N of Antium – Cats go 3 for 4 to Red-line German knight at the Gate – Defender of Rome (3/9) kills English Rifle – At Arretium Cats go 1 for 7 on Bab Musket – Galley (1/3) sinks Japanese galley (I hope it was carrying cavalry)

IBT: At Trevent Legion (1/4) kills attacking German Knight – At Caesarea Legion (1/5) kills attacking Cossack & Legion (2/4) retreats attacking Bab Cav – Mediolanum walls->catapult – Gonzomonium pike->legion – The Gap Pike->Legion – Tyrus catapult-barracks

1305 AD – Turn 5 – At Caesarea Cats go 2 for 9 to redline English rifle – At Terantum cats go 3 for 3 to redline English Knight – At the Gate Cats for 4 for 4 to redline to French LB & Cats for 3 for 4 to red-line German Knight & Red Machine (18/19) kills French LB – Glory of Rome (13/17) kills Bab Musket to get to the last connection to Babylon – At Arretium Cats go 3 for 5 to redline Bab Musket – 2nd Knight Army kills Bab Cav

IBT: No attacks – Aztecs land a pair of Cavalry in a spot I selected for them :evil: - Viroconium knight->knight – Moenia walls->galley

1310 AD – Turn 6 – At The Gate cats for 6 for 10 – Red Machine (17/19) kills French LB – At Terantum Cats go 5 for 12 – At Cumae Cats for 3 for 5 – Settler founds Augustadorum – Defender of Rome (8/18) kills Aztec Cavalry – Legion (3/4) chases Aztec Cavalry – Legion (4/4) kills Aztec Cavalry – Horseman pillages final road to Babylon

IBT: 2 Bab cavalry die attacking elite knight and 3rd retreats from Vet Legion – 2 Cossacks die and 1 retreats attacking Caesarea – English Cavalry kills Vet Legion in Caesarea and another retreats red-lined – Japan lands 2 Cavalry – Veii Legion–>Knight

1315 AD – Turn 7 – At The Gate Cats go 4 for 4 to redline 2 French LB & Cats go 1 for 5 on Cossack & Red Machine (17/19) kills French LB – At Tarentum Cats go 4 for 12 – 2nd Knight Army kills Bab Cavalry – In Arentium Cats go 2 for 3 to red-line Cossack – At Cumae Cats go 5 for 7 to red-line both Japanese cavalry & Legion (2/4) & Legion (4/4) kill them – Max’s Blue Bolts (14/17) kill Bab Cav – Legion (4/4) kills English rifle – Hurry a Legion in Corfinium

IBT: 2 English Cav die attacking Caesarea – Rome knight-knight – Antium knight->knight – Cumae legion->legion – Corfinium legion->legion – Nicomedia settler=>legion

1320 AD – Turn 8 – Cats from The Gate go 3 for 4 on American Cavalry & Knight (4/4) kills him – At Tarentum Cats go 2 for 3 on Bab Cav & 2nd Knight Army (11/17) kills English Cav – At Caesarea Cats go 4 for 9 on Cossack & English Cav – At Anterrium Cats go 2 for 7 on French rifle – At Knossos: Cats fire 17 times and only destroy the library – Caesar’s Savages (10/18) kill Reg Hoplite

IBT: No Attacks - 4 inbound Japanese galleys each with a Frigate escort – 4 unit Bab Cav Stack looking to cause trouble for Antium – Hispalis Legion->Legion – The Gate Legion->Legion – Asti Spumante Catapult->Galley – Sirmium walls->catapult

I don’t really have time to play turn 9, so I didn’t not start the turn (nothing has been moved)

I’m all set to bombard Knossos again, there are at least 2 Hoplites in the city, there is also a settler with them to replace Knossos and another one with legion escort heading to the gap SW of Knossos. There is a stack of 4 Bab Cav NW of Antium and a bunch of cats under that army to take shots at them – It’s probably best to bring 2nd Knight Army down to defend in Antium and move Max’s Blue Bolts to Tarentum, there is also a settler there, but I haven’t been able to get enough troops to escort him north – Be sure to move the worker by Jerusalem as the Musketeer is stalking him – I left a spot S of Pompeii as a landing zone for incoming invaders, be sure to keep the hills covered or they will land there and be harder to kill – Glory of Rome & a horseman pillager are SW of Uruk pillaging there way to London – If you manage to free up an Army & knight, send them to Paris and then on to Russia to cut down on those Cavalry - there are 3 AI units in the mountains NE of Rome heading slowly to our undefended cities, keep an eye on them (and keep a garrison in Rome), by the way with Augustordorum we added silks to our luxuries list, so you might check if we can lower the luxury rate at this point. I’ve been using single scientist research and invention is due in 9. You’ve got 274g & +22gpt to rush units as needed (we are paying 87gpt in unit support) – Good luck, I’m back to feeling bad about our chances in this game

Well done denyd. It's an exhausting round but it looks like we killed more than we lost.

Denyd < - Kicked some arse
G-man < - Is up
Alerum < - Is thinking long and hard about that "peace?" idea that was thrown around.:p
Bede
R & L
Bugs

got it....

Take your time with it G-man. PLEASE take your time with it.:p

Remember our new rules:

1. If you get tired, take a break.
2. Don't rush
3. Study your options
4. You don't need to play 10, although a minimum of five would be nice.

And lastly,

5. Expect the unexpected.

Preflight check: Looks like all the moves are intact for me this turn. It’s 1325AD and it looks tough.
1st things 1st: @ Knosssos: cats go 7 for 18, hurting 3 hoplites. Army kills 1 (6/18) and elite Legion kills another (2/5).
Hurry walls in August.
Near Rome: bombard german knight and then lose 2 knights and redline an elite to kill the stupid thing.
Near Tarentum: kill 2 bab cav’s and an English cav.
Near The Gate: kill an American cav.
Near Jerusalem: Knight army kills a French musket.
Rush 3 knights, Switching Pompeii’s to a Market and MM so it’s due in 3T.
Bombard Greek galley in our SW, and then kill it with a reg galley (3/3)
MM Rome to 18spt (knight every 4T, current one due in 3T). Fire the Scientist in Pompeii and hire on in a totally useless tundra town. We need all the spt we can get.

IBT: Lose 1 Legion, retreat 2 knights and 2 cavs, kill 3 cavs

T1: 1330AD @Knossos: redline remaining defender and the Savages kill it (5/18). Raze the city and found Trapezus on the same spot. Disband the 2 captured native workers towards city walls.
@Ravena: cat’s redline a Jap Frigate and our galley kills the Jap galley and promotes (3/4). Hide him in the town.
@August: kill a redlined German knight and promote to elite.
@The Gate - Tarentum area: bombard 4 bab cav and kill 3 of them (redlined cav left). Take 2hp off a Russian Cosack. Kill an English cav. Take 2hp off an American rifle and then kill it with a knight.
Rush a Legion in the Gap

IBT: kill 1 English cav

T2: 1335AD Found Bagacum; Kill 3 more Bab cavs on hill between the Gate and Tarentum but 2 armys are now badly damaged (1 Legion, 1 knight); kill a Cossack near Caesarea
Take a chance and use the Glory of Rome (Legion Army) to attack the English city of York, killing a rifle but getting badly injured (4/17); leaving a conscript rifle on top.

IBT: Glory of Rome is killed as well as it’s horseman.

T3: 1340AD Kill 3 more bab cav’s plus 1 russian Cossack and 1 english cav.

IBT: kill 1 english cav and retreat another; Japanese drop off 4 cav and 1 samurai.

T4: 1345AD Kill most of the Jap landing party, leaving 1 redlined cav and 1 redlined samurai but lose 3 Legions in the process. Kill 2 english cavs and 1 bab cav, losing 1 knight.

IBT: spear defends against jap cav!; Jap’s drop off a cav near Jerusalem; a couple of English cavs retreat

T5: 1350AD Kill English cav and Jap cav. Kill Jap redlined samurai with 4/5 Legion and generate a leader. Leader runs back to Pompeii and forms a knight army

IBT: Jap’s drop off a spear; French cav kills a pike in the NE.

T6: 1355AD Kill a French LB, 3 Bab cav’s, and 2 French cav. And the Jap spear.
Hurry the temple in Tarentum.

IBT: Aztecs drop off 3 cavs; heavy advance by all civ’s to our NW. Lose a knight but kill 1 rifle and 1 cossack @ Treveri.

T7: 1360AD badly damage the new knight army (5/13) killing a cossack near Treveri as Catapult training was apparently canceled during this turn. I’ve never seen so many misses during 1 turn :(
@Pisae: Kill 2 Aztec cav’s with a Knight army but lose a Legion attacking the 3rd. Have to bring the new Knight from Rome down to kill it (1/4)
Retreat a bab cav near Tarentum and then kill it. Kill 2 more and also take a hp off 2 english rifles.

IBT: Caesarena gets overwhelmed by Babylonian cavs and is lost :( Lose knight army in the NE.

T8: 1365AD Max’s Blue bolts retakes Caesarena, killing a Bab cav. Kill 2 more bab cav’s outside the town.

IBT: a single legion takes down 2 cav and 1 knight before dying to an English cav (2/4); kill another cav in the NE.

Invention -> gunpowder (24T @ 20%)

T9: 1370AD Kill a German knight in the NE and a german pike in the NW, getting a leader from an elite Legion win. Kill a French cav. Lose 4hp off the Red Machine attacking a redlined cav.

IBT: Aztecs are building US :lol:

T10: 1375AD Max’s Blue bolts kill a Babylon cav and an English cav but is badly damaged and out of position. Red Machine jumps into Tarentum and the 2nd Knight Army cover’s Max.
Rush walls in Caesarea.
New Knight Army is in Veii. Rome is building a market as that is the town on infrastructure duty right now. Try to get the infrastructure up around the FP core. Recommend a lot of irrigating so we can work the mountains (I screwed that up a little) but we need more markets as our unit support costs are crushing.
Cannot seem to get traction out of the NW but if we could, we could take a very large stack of cats + 1 Legion army + 1 knight army + spare knights are wreck France.

Heavy pressure is coming down from the center.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/sgotm3-bugs-1375BC.JPG

Way to fight on g-man!

Nice job razing Knossos, and great to hear about the leader. Didn't like the news about Samuari though... one thing... you said you highly recommend something, then you said nothing more... what are you referring too!? Oh yeah, I got it.

umm... looking at the score chart, it seems like Sesn is starting to tapper off, but we've gone past the danger point. I think it was when japan came in the picture. I really don't like Samauri... anyway, bleak as things look for us, we still have a decent chance of hanging in there til time runs out.;)

Question: Does anyone mind if I sell our temples? We'll still keep the big borders, and the culture we have already, but we don't have to pay for the temples, in cities where happiness is doing nothing for them. We won't gain any new culture in those cities, but it's the entire civ culture that matters for flips.

Question: Does anyone mind if I sell our temples? We'll still keep the big borders, and the culture we have already, but we don't have to pay for the temples, in cities where happiness is doing nothing for them. We won't gain any new culture in those cities, but it's the entire civ culture that matters for flips.
i think thats a good idea. just make sure that we don't cause undue happiness problems. maybe sell them after markets are built or something. also, take a look at the lux slider as i didn't during my last 2 turns. with a couple more markets, we may be able to reduce lux tax to 0%.

"I highly recomm" -> sorry, it was late for me last night. i think i completed that thought in the paragraph above but forgot to edit it out in the word document i was using to record the set log.

Very nice consolidation all around to everyone! We've finally wrapped the South and East, and are now ready to concentrate on the North, leaving mobile units for defense behind the front.

That traction in the NW is the same problem that I had been having, and it's now been at least 40 full turns of it. With Alerum and Bede up next, I know that I can rest easy :sleep:, since by the time my turn comes, America will be the only opponent left on our continent... :p

I really don't like Samauri... anyway, bleak as things look for us, we still have a decent chance of hanging in there til time runs out.;)

Don't worry, in Grahamiam's post it also said that they had 4 cavs, so we won't see too many Samurai... :p

I'd sell the temples when we have a market and the borders have expanded. I think we'll be able to keep everyone happy with just markets. Sounds like the backyard is becoming a busy place as well.

It seems the off-islands AI have decided that the land SE of Cumae is where they need to invade from. For the fun of it, I played around with not attacking those inbound Japanese ships and they landed 9 Cavalry on a hill tile next to Cumae in the same turn. That's a pretty good amphibious invasion in my book.

It's too bad about those army losses. I'm also worried about that army in Tarentum. We need to complete that temple in Tarentum so the borders expand. Right now, AI cavalry are able to move just 1 tile to heal and then come charging back. With the cultural expansion, we'll force them to the hills & mountains to heal. With the discovery of gunpowder, we'll be able to pump up our defenses. Expect to see whole bunch of infantry once Replaceable Parts is discovered and with Universal Suffrage started, it's not far away. We need to get to Military Tradition (Gunpowder-Metallurgy-MT) to be able to have a quality attacker again. Our knights are only successful once the Cats have softened up the targets. At least with cannon & cavalry we should be able to flatten France & England. If we get lucky and play smart we might be able to take our entire continent before Japan launches.

Tarentum should expand next turn iirc. it would be nice to keep that temple till the 2nd expansion so we'll force them back beyond mountains, then we can bombard them as they try to come over them. i still believe we ought to try to move something out of the NW region and into the French countryside. all we're doing by sitting back is delaying the inevitable, and we can't get spooned since team sens took that honor for themselves :)

Wow, Team Misfit just logged a loss too. :sad:
They were ahead of us right up through turn 200, where they fell 1 point behind, and then closed out 10 turns later. In some ways, this is turning into a race for the teams to beat M-B, not each other - at least for us teams that never turned the corner. (I knew we should have taken that left turn at Albequrque... :p ) That leaves 8 active teams.

Of the eight, Oblivion is on a winning course, staff & Ankka will likely win, and akots, handy & microbe are clustered with us (all variant teams).

It also appears that Team Mistfit have swiped the spoon out of Sesn's hands. I'm sure that broke Team Sesn's hearts.

It looks like when things went downhill for those two teams, it happened pretty quickly. I think the only way for that to happen is invaders in the backyard.

It looks like when things went downhill for those two teams, it happened pretty quickly. I think the only way for that to happen is invaders in the backyard.
we are thin back there, but we should have more units coming online in a few turns. all the more reason to get markets down as we need more and more troop support.

One more thing. Rather than building pikemen, keep building legions. Both have a 3 defense and cost 30 shields, but the legions can attack at 3 vs 1 for a pike. We'll never be able to have enough cash for upgrading pikes to muskets (if we have any saltpeter), so there's no reason to build pikes.

Ackowledged. I think I was the one to initiate pikes on more than a 1-2 basis, and is was strictly for upgrade reasons.

Just a little update:

On turn 8, there have been *HEAVY* IA landings in 2 stragtic points... Cumea in the south east, and Jerasalum in the northwest. Jerasalum actually saw more action, and had to move some cats away from the true front to help defend this stretch of coastline. After the assults I've been facing, and even including bombarding down ships, I can easily see how the other teams could have lost... We've been lucky in the fact that all of our coastal cities are defended... I think they left them open.

I haven't been able to do 1 offensive assault, being strickly on the defense, but I'm having around a 10:1 kill ratio in the north. One thing I'm doing is getting about half our worker force up in the north, and creating roads around our cities. This will increase our kill ratio to 20:1 easily, because the units I do loose are usuauly the odd one I leave in the open and a cav pops out of no where and kills him.

I've increased our army by a net gain of about 10 knights, and 5 legions, and have added about 5 workers so far as well. Our GPT is down again, even with markets (Forums) being built.

I have to head down to the uni, so I'll finish this up sometime later tonight. Any suggestion from the team on a way to break out with an assault? I have 3 Settlers in the north ready to replace razed cities, but we need the arms to raze those cities.:p

It sounds like you're playing things very well. I would think the location for an offensive would be to continue up the east coast. We could then sweep into France through the flatlands.

Figure we will need a sizeable force, probably 10-15 knights, plus an army or two to hide under. Bring the settlers along to settle the land we clear.

Have you been building any settlers? We need to keep doing that.

I've built 2 settlers during my watch, with a 3rd on the way. Settlers should never be turned off, even if we have to use them for backfill instead of taking new lands. And the East Coast would be easiest, especially since the western half seems to get more of the attacks.

Very good.

I think if we can maintain a holding force in the west we could roll up France from the east and then reconsolidate our front about 10 tiles north of where we are now. Granted, that may take 50+ turns, but I think we need to start moving in that direction. Time for a calculated risk.

I've built 2 settlers during my watch, with a 3rd on the way. Settlers should never be turned off, even if we have to use them for backfill instead of taking new lands. And the East Coast would be easiest, especially since the western half seems to get more of the attacks.
yes i agree (baby on shoulder) and build in non-core towns, we need muscle :)

OK, here's a crazy idea from a sleep deprived team member.

Let's follow the advice of General George Patton "Hold them by the nose and kick them in the A$$"

Here's holding by nose:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Holding.jpg

We'll need new cities on the 4 blue X's with a 2-3 defenders (Legion army Tarentum & The Gate) with 4-5 catapults each. Each city will need walls. That should allow us to hold the line.

Now for the butt kicking:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Kicking.jpg

If we move up the coast we will only have French & English troops to contend with. Hopefully we'll be able to crack the first ring of defenders then move to the interior of England quickly. After taking Newcastle, the slower units can advance on London, while the faster ones head for the English horses.

The more I thought about the initial plans to attack through Rheems to Tours & Orleans the more I realized we were heading into the teeth of the AI. With Bablyon & Germany to the east, America & Russia to the North and England & France to the west on that plan, we'd be moving into a bad situation. With this plan, once England is secure, we'll be able to move the western corner of holding to Sevastapol and create a line of advancement from Coventry to Lyons moving eastward.

it looks like a good plan, though let's try to use the land better for defense. ie, near Marseillis, move the "X" S 1T so more attacks occur across the river. i like the plan, though we need to figure out how to procecute it soon.