Two things about moving all the way to England like that.

1. If we just raze, some AI is going to resettle and we'll have to repeat the razing.
2. If we raze and replace we will have a huge salient that extends our front significantly.

However, this does bring up an interesting point. We are essentially fighting WWI type tactics with a stationary front. Perhaps we need to shift to WWII blitz tactics. We need to change our way of thinking about the problem from a defensive static point of view, to an offensive dynamic point of view.

Maybe we have two forces. One will be like Sherman and march to the north sea. It will raze everything in its path. The second will maintain the front and try and extend it as much as possible.

The question is how big a force would be necessary for something like that?

Turn 0 (1375)
humm... things look better then I was thinking at this point... much better.
Can turn off luxury, and everyone is still happy. gives us +12 GPT instead of -3GPT
I wonder when the AI will get tanks... and how come so many cities are frozen in growth.

IBT
lots of builds, and Japan starts US as well.

Turn 1(1380AD)
Change Veii to settler.
Defender of Rome vs 2hp english cav - win, no dam
Defender of Rome vs english rRifle - win, 2 dam
eLegion vs bab 2hp cav - win, 3 dam, no promo
eKnight vs bab 2hp cav - win, 3 dam, no promo
Humm... did a check on city vs worker ratio. It's 2:1... a bit reversed... I'm going to build at least 5 workers on my turns!
Thinking outside of the box: I want to sell our temples to reduce maintence, but still maintain culture we have now and borders.
2nd Night Army vs vet cav - win, lossing 4/18
umm... I'm supposed to fight MoW's with galleys?!

IBT
The AI likes to gather in our kill zones for some reason.

Turn 2 (1385)
2nd Knight Army vs French Cav (Didn't we cut their capitol off?!) win, lossing 4 hps
vKnight vs french rRifle - win, 2 dam
Aqeuilae Tarquinis (Who came up with that name?) vs American 3hp vRifle - win, 4 dam.
Those mountains between The Gate and Treveri could really use a fortress and some roads... thats a nasty spot still.

IBT
units swarm again, going to have to repeat bombard treatment.

Turn 3 (1390)
eknight vs longbowman - win, no dam return home
eLegion vs vMusket - win, 2 dam
Defender of Rome vs English 2hp cav - win, 1 dam
Defender of Rome vs Bab 1hp cav - win, no dam
VKnight vs Russian 1hp cossack - win, 2 dam
VLegion vs French 1hp Cav - win, no dam, goes elite.
Caesare's Army vs Bab 2hp Musket - win, 3 dam

IBT
Arretium had some citizen killed
japan drops off 2 cavs
cossak falls to a unit in a city I missed
we loose a legion
Americans start US

Turn 4 (1395)
vLegion causes bab cav to retreat, lossing 2hp
vlegion kills bab
vlegion kills bad who retreated, clearing the field, but leaving The Holy City open for a turn.
Load a knight into an army
vKnight vs french vLongbow - redlined, but retreats. Ouch, when did they get defense?
Max's Blue Bolts vs 1hp bab cav - win, no dam


Random Thought: When they start building railroads, and we're getting the full brunt of their armies in organized stacks of 20-30... well, do we have any plans for that?


IBT
cocask attack augustadom, but dies
english cav attack augustudum and dies

Turn 5 (1400)
eLegion vs bab 1hp cav - win, no dam, no promo
2hp vLegionary takes on a suicide mission to kill the french vCav, but somehow survives and promotes!
Max's Blue Bolts vs Bab 1hp Cav - win, no dam, goes back home
vKnight vs french vLongbow - win, no dam, goes elite

IBT
cossack attack elite legion, and kills him. didn't see him that close, or wouldn't have left him exposed.
english drop of a cav off


Turn 6 (1405)
Sorry, got into the turn. No losses, killed 4 units, bombarded 2 others down to 1 hp, and a frigate as well.
Having to defend our west coast due to units being dropped off. We need a active coast guard now, with cats.
vLegion vs vCav - loose, but redline cav.

IBT
Japan drops off 3 cav
bab cav falls to legion, but we get redlined
get bombarded and loose walls in arretium


Turn 7(1410)
vLegion vs Japan 3hp cav - Died.:( Cav took no dam
vLegion vs Japan 3hp cav - died, took off a hp.
vLegion vs Japan 2hp Cav - win, no dam
vLegion vs Japn 2hp cav - win, 1 dam
vKnight vs English 1hp cav - win, no dam
vKnight vs Japan 2hp cav - win, 1 dam
vKnight vs English 2hp cav - win, 1 dam
Max's Blue Bolts vs English 2hp cav - win 2 dam
Max's Blue Bolts vs English 3hp cav - win 2 dam
Caesere's Army vs 2hp bab cav - win, 2 dam
eKnight vs 2hp bab cav - win, 2 dam, no leader

IBT
american sub is moving closer to our shores.
bab Cav takes out knight.
bab cav falls at the gate
bab rifle falls at the gate
english cav kills legion at treveri, but is redlined


Turn 8 (1415)
ELegionary vs english cav from the IBT - we win, no damage and FINALLY pull a leader.
Red Machine vs bab cav - cause cav to retreat, 2 dam
Caesara's army vs english cav - win no dam
Defender of Rome vs bab rifle - we win, but take heavy damage.
vKnight vs french rifle - we loose, redlien rifle.

IBT
cossack takes out exposed legionary that gave us the lader. was worth it.
cossak redlined at augustadorum x2, and vet goes elite
russian riffle dropped off on the west coast
steady stream of babs cav coming in our territory now. We need to pillage their horses again.
Tarentum dies because all the units around it.:p



Turn 9 (1420)
elegion vs 1hp russian musket - we loose?
elegion vs 1hp russian musket - win, 2 dam
Caesar's Savages vs cossak - we win
vKnight vs 1hp russian cossack - win, no dam
vKnight vs 2hp russian cossack - win, no dam, goes elite
eKnight vs 1hp American Cav - win, but no promotion like I was hoping.
eLegion vs 1hp Bab rifle - win, no dam
eLegion vs 1hp bab rifle - win, no dam
Red Machine vs bab cav - cav retreats, we loose 4 hps in the battle
rLegion vs 1hp cav -
vKnight vs 1hp french rifle - win, 1 dam
Max's Blue Bolts vs 2hp bab longbow - win, 1 dam
Max's Blue Bolts vs bab cav - win but get redlined
Caesare's Army vs bab cav - win, 1 dam
Caesare's Army vs bab cav - win, but redlined again
2nd Knight Army vs 2hp French cav - Win, 1 dam
Red Machine retreats a english cav
e*Knight takes out that cav

Good news: There's a pikeman near The Gate. I think we've exhustaed the Babs for the time being. :roll:

IBT
america drops a sword in the west
elegion kills cav, equally mattched?
pike redlines cav, equally matched
elegion that survived the babs, died to the french


Turn 10 (1425)
eLegion vs 1hp american sword - win, no dam, no promo
2nd Knight army kills french cav
Army ( I don't know how to rename in PTW, if ya wanna do it for me I'd like it to be Barbarians at the Gates) vs 1hp bab rifle - win, 3 dam
I take that back about the babs being gasses. That's a german pikeman I saw, not babs. Damn it, Anyway Caeser's Savages killed him with no loss.
We should probably settle on that Hill. May want to remember it when you play!!
This is mainly a healing turn, don't see any easy attacks, and we may only get 1 stack attacked by a bab cav, should be safe elsewhere in the IBT.

Notes:
Build mines in the mountains of Viroconium. HUGE stack is there to get it done... wasn't able to break it down to the most economical configuration, so you may want ot do that. Slaves would be REALLY nice at this point.

The 6-stack of workers is for roading the hills in the north, so we can have a good defense. You should cover them with an army from one of the cities, probably a legionary one. The other 3 up there should build roads on plains and grasslands. This is crucial!!!! Don't use them for ANYTHING else. I would have had a much better kill ratio with proper roads to bring knights back him from the hills.

May want to check my MMing. I did it at the end of turn 9, but not 10. Just checked happiness.

We're 4 turns from gunpowder. When we get there, turn off science and upgrade our pikes to muskets, and we should be able to go on the offensive!

I didn't do it, but you should sell our temples on the borders now. We have all the culture we'll need for flip protection, their borders have expanded, and they're just costing us GPT now.

I didn't post a picture, I think the save is worth taking a look at this point, and figuring out how we want to go.

Here's the save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/bugsy_SG003_AD1425_01.SAV).

in 4 turns, we'll be able to upgrade our pikes to muskets, and then we'll be able to finalyl break out! We have the forces to start the assult on the french, as well as 3 settlers in the north, and 1 more due in 2 in Veii. Denyd's plan will work, and one key city to build is the one I was talking about in turn number 9, where the army is standing. That area will be bascially sealed off at that point. The English has sent a steady stream of cavs at us, so be prepared for heavy resitance all the way up. We won't be able to go as far as Denyd suggest that quickly though... figure 2-3 cities at best turning a turn set... that's going to be very hard. 1-2 is more likely.

Good progress. Brother Bede is up and R&L is on deck.

Got it and looking for the iron underwear.

in 4 turns, we'll be able to upgrade our pikes to muskets, and then we'll be able to finalyl break out! ... figure 2-3 cities at best turning a turn set... that's going to be very hard. 1-2 is more likely.

That's one thing that I REALLY like about our team! We're fighting subs with galleys, and rifles with knights & legions, and we're STILL optimistic! :rotfl:

While Bede is girding his iron scivies, I'll be looking for a nice supply of dry powder. Incidentally, I know you guys all questioned when I started building the galleys, and still wonder now that we're facing MoW, but it's better than nothing, isn't it? It also gives us the ability, if not the initiative, to try putting out an offensive landing party. That might get them to keep some troops at home (or we'd finally roll a strike!).

Notes:
Build mines in the mountains of Viroconium. HUGE stack is there to get it done... wasn't able to break it down to the most economical configuration, so you may want ot do that. Slaves would be REALLY nice at this point.

The 6-stack of workers is for roading the hills in the north, so we can have a good defense. You should cover them with an army from one of the cities, probably a legionary one. The other 3 up there should build roads on plains and grasslands. This is crucial!!!! Don't use them for ANYTHING else. I would have had a much better kill ratio with proper roads to bring knights back him from the hills.

nice turns alerum :thumbsup:
i agree with the workers but i do have something to add. Antium was working a lot of unimproved tiles during my turns. if we can get the hills to it's rear mined and roaded, it will help our production tremendously.
also, imvho, veii should stop building settlers and focus on military (just a comment, not a criticism as we needed those settlers during your turns but now we can switch). rush or build settlers in the SE when the tundra cities get up to size 3. they are not doing much but acting as a placeholder anyways. if enough of those 1spt towns start building, in 20 or 30 turns we will have a lot coming out of that area. we now need the core cities to concentrate on military, specifically knights, to replenish our attacking troops when we make the push N.
@R&L -> i did not disagree with you about the galleys. they worked well as i was able to sink 1 troop transport during my turns after redlining the covering frigate with cat's :) i thought i recommended a "swarm" of them here (4-6) but i think i got confused with another sg :crazyeye:

I think we need to keep pumping settlers, if for no other reason for troop support, but the increased commerce, (yes, even if it only 1G) is worth it.

I think we need to keep pumping settlers, if for no other reason for troop support, but the increased commerce, (yes, even if it only 1G) is worth it.
i don't necessarily disagree. i just feel high spt cities/towns should be devoted to military. maybe it makes sense to keep letting veii pump for 10 more turns, but i think, in the long run, it's best to let the non-productive cities make our settlers from now on.

I'm not so sure about that yet G-man. Those 3 settlers will quickly be used as soon as we start the assult. We need to be able to produce a settler every 5 turns for the remainder of this game to be able to fill after we raze, or the AI will take land and we'll watch them get stronger.

Won't get any turns in tonight as I want to be reasonably fresh for this one. First up for tomorrow evening though.

We need settlers as we advance. Will try to find reasonable places to build them. Maybe 5spt towns with a finish rush after two.

I'm not so sure about that yet G-man. Those 3 settlers will quickly be used as soon as we start the assult. We need to be able to produce a settler every 5 turns for the remainder of this game to be able to fill after we raze, or the AI will take land and we'll watch them get stronger.
your right, of course, we do need to settle towns quickly when we go on the offensive, but we'll also need to replace lost troops as casulties will be high with rifles defending so we're in another connundrum here. if we space the 1spt towns correctly, we can do the 1 settler every 5T rate that's believed to be required but it will take a bit of foresight, as i had indicated previously. i think we can do it and i think we need to do it as we'll need attackers and defenders replenished readily. I also think the new towns should be no more that 3 tiles apart, so we can move defenders to the hot spots as required.

1 more thing :) we got roads on those mountains? if not, we need to build them or the cats ain't coming with us.

We've been building a lot of mountain roads, especially in the Gate/Gap area. I like the idea of building settlers in outlying towns and rushing them either short or finish.

yeah, but i think they're lacking over by cherborug (sp?) to the NW, along the attack route. probably need a legion army +3 workers to run up there and road it, then follow with the cats and the rest of the strike force. this will be quite an exciting point in the game :D

There is a way around the mountains right next to the coast. Although some combat engineers to build some roads to speed the advance would probably be a good idea.

Sometimes I feel like I put to much in my post, and people skip over important information.:p We don't have a set of 3-workers build roads in that area G-man. We have 9. One set is for building roads in 1 turn on flatlands, and the other set of 6 is for 1 turn hills, and 2 turn mountain road building. They're moving up there just have to make sure that Bede uses them that way instaed of breaking them up and setting them back to the core that's happened so many times in the past that I've moved them up there.:p

sorry, i thought you were talking about between the gate and augustadorum. i didn't realize you meant between arretium and tarentum, the direction of denyd's charge. "N" can mean a lot of places right now :p

The 6-stack of workers is for roading the hills in the north, so we can have a good defense. You should cover them with an army from one of the cities, probably a legionary one. The other 3 up there should build roads on plains and grasslands. This is crucial!!!! Don't use them for ANYTHING else. I would have had a much better kill ratio with proper roads to bring knights back him from the hills.

also, the "grasslands" threw me because there's actually a lot of desert there (and zero grass) :lol:

Yeah, I know, just "grassland" is how I think of anything that's not hills or mountains in my head, and sometimes put it out that way... at least when it comes to fighting. Should call it "flatland" but old habits die hard.

Quick update:
Two and a half turns done in four hours. :eek: Ready to sack Poitiers. Fighting off hornets on the coast and at Arretium. Kill ratio 5-1. Haven't moved a settler yet. One new leader, no scope for army (need towns). Can't get moving forward in the west or north.

Finish tonight.

This has to be one of the most intense AW games I've been involved in. If we can maintain a 5-1 kill ratio, we just turned the corner.

Well gents, I've dropped back from using log scores to using just the normalized scores, and have the following to present. These numbers are the raw scores, extrapolated to the nearest 10 turn value, normalized versus slightly below the lowest score, and then scaled by 10k. Due to the normalization, you'll find whomever is running lowest to be along the bottom, and the occassional group adjustment as someone else becomes the lowest.

For example, on turn 210 (shows as 215, shift all left by half block), when akots & misfit ended, they drop to lowest, due to misfit's new low score, and consequently, everyone else adjusts up because they had all been compared to sesn's score before. Sesn pops up because he is no longer lowest, but stays below akots, as he should, and then drops again. The big drop in 270 is due to microbe going low. That is re-adjusted as sesn goes low again in 220. Actually, low scores were held as follows:
akots: turns 30-40
handy: 40 (tied), 50
sesn: 60-90, 180-200, 220-260
bugsy: 100-130
microbe: 140-170, 270
misfit: 210

From this, we can see that although Handy has been leading the group in points for a while, they've been on a consistant downward trend since T140, while we have been moving up. I suspect the big surge after T220 was due to fending off cav attacks and getting kills. Maybe the kills are each worth more due to the point / strength difference? We're still ramping ever so slightly faster than microbe. I know from talking to DJMGator that team misfit got overwhelmed by cavs, and can deduce that akots was having the same issue, staying in only long enough to avoid getting the spoons.

I don't think Cavs explain that SHARP increase we've had.... but if you look at the point where they started going down, and when we start going up, is around turn 210... I opened up the save 950 AD and it's the turn 210... In fact, this is the set where I only played 5 turns, and had to pass it on because the going was to rough and I was afraid I was going to loose control and wanted more experience with it.... It appears the feel was accurate, because that was around the turning point... Thank god for all those cats we built, as that's the only thing that saved us. What does that drop at the end refer to I wonder?

The drop at the end is what happens when you move what survives of your meager army into a single city (with walls and on a hill) and try to hold on until somebody wins without killing you (I went through this way back when the Babylon Deity settlers game in GOTM 14).

hehehe... Yeah, but we have that drop, and we're not at that point yet.;) I'm glad I never played that GOTM 14. Everyone has horror stories about it... This one is going to go down in history too.

I think the drop is due to the relative nature of the measurement. The same reason we see a sharp increase at turn 210.

If you look at the graph in the Submission page it isn't a sharp increase but a gradual upturn. The upturn is due to our increased population due to the increased number of cities we have and happy people in those cities. Another reason to keep building cities.

The sharp drop is due to recalculating the normalization curve to be based on microbe's score, since microbe is now the lowest scoring team for the turn. Sesn is out of the game for that turn.

Thanks guys... I'm horrible at graphs and statitcs, and all that fun stuff...:p

nice chart R&L, interesting data.

regarding bede's post -> i wonder where Poitiers is located :confused:

hopefully this is what he did with it http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/aktion/action-smiley-082.gif

Capturing Sevastopol, Cherbourg and Poitiers would extend the breakout so that's what I'm going to do. Now if everybody else would co-operate. Sell temples in the borders and fiddle with citizen assingments. Hire some taxmen and scientists and time to Gunpowder drop by 1 turn and cash flow gets back up to zero.

Lose the workers and a legion in the desert to an American cav.

1-1430
Kill two Cossacks and a French cavalry. Cripple troops approaching Tarnetum and lose an elite knight against a crippled regular rifleman. Kill hte rifle with a knight army 4-1

Sling stones at British cavalry inbound at Arettium. Try to get set up for Poitiers.

Postion Defender of Rome on a hill between The Gate, Antium and Tarentum to provide mobile covetage to open ground.

British cavalry bypass Arettium and are impaled by pike at Verona. 5-1

Defender of Rome does its job and wounds a French cavalryman passing through its zone of control towards Rome.

2-1435
Elite knight charges out of Tarentum, kills French cavalry and Trajan appears again. Trajan goes to Rome to await the founding of some more towns so he can build another army.1-0

Cats hurt a French cav in the moutnains at The Gap. Vet knight takes him out. 2-0

Defender of Rome kills wounded rifle on mountain at The Gate. 3-0
I want that mountain!!

Big Red Machine takes out wounded American rifle in desert Caesarea. 4-0

Catapults cripple Babylonian rifle at Augustadorum. Vet legion fails to kill him. 4-1. Second vet is more successful. 15-2

American cavalryman kills exposed legion. 15-3

German knight gallops in and kills legion at Augustadorum. 15-4

French drop off a cav at Verona and the Aztecs two cav between Pisae and Jerusalem

3-1440
Elite legion kills offending knight at Augustadorum. 16-4

Cats bombard Poitiers and the Savages kill musket and take it 17-4

Kill two German rifles at Augustadorum 19-4.

Pike grabs unprotected German catapult.

Kill 2 English cav at Tarentum 21-4

Sling stones at the French and Aztecs and eliminate the threat in the east with a knight and a legion. 24-4

Lose a legion trying to kill crippled Russian Cossack at The Gate. 24-5 Kill Russian Cossack at The Gate. 25-5 Lose an elite knight trying to kill wounded Russian at The Gate 25-6. Vet knight from Rome succeeds 26-6.

Immediate threats are eliminated but there are four Babylonian cavalry inbound from Sevastapol.

Shuffle cats and defenders around to put them where I think Hammis's horse is heading.

Greeks drop off a hoplite at Pompeii.

4-1445
Kill five Babylonian cavalry, no losses. 31-6

There are two Bab Cavs and an English cav in the desert NW Tarentum. I think I've plugged all the holes.

Only accomplished one objective.

The settlers and workers have pulled back into the heartland and could head out through the mountains in the NE toward the rubble of Poitiers. Until we can stop the cavalry coming through from the due north any breakout towards Sevastapol isn't in the cards. An English MoW broke the road connection to Arretium. Braeking out of there towards Cherbourg is another one of those real problems. And again until we can put an end to the troops coming in from Sevastapol won't happen anytime soon.

5-1450
English and Babylonian cavalry co-operate to kill a pike and steal a cat. 31-7

Vet knight kills the surviving English cav and the Blue Bolts get the cat back.

Second Knights kills two English rifles 33-7.

Vet knoight kills Eglish cavalry and promotes. 34-7

Kill a German rifle in the hills west of Augustadorum 35-7

Gunpowder comes in and we have saltpeter near Gonzomonium.

5-1450
English and Babylonian cavalry co-operate to kill a pike and steal a cat. 31-7

Vet knight kills the surviving English cav and the Blue Bolts get the cat back.

Second Knights kills two English rifles 33-7.

Vet knoight kills Eglish cavalry and promotes. 34-7

Kill a German rifle in the hills west of Augustadorum 35-7

Gunpowder comes in and we have saltpeter near Gonzomonium

Trajan is hiding out at Lugdunum.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/1450.jpg

Pretty sure I'm next. Will play 5 starting tonight, and pass it on.

5:1 Kill ratio is terrific. Playing five seems to be working out well. Study the situation like a chess board.

3 down, 2 to go - no cities razed, but no armies lost (yet). They're really flooding in now (stacks of 5 rifles on mountains, landings of 3-4 cavs, etc.).

good, that means you should be having high kill ratios, which means they're throwing out more shields then we are.;)

... deduce that akots was having the same issue, staying in only long enough to avoid getting the spoons.

:lol: That is so right :lol: It was the least possible achievement for me.

Nice analysis btw. We did not build arty and did not research and did very many things wrong, just too many. And had terrible luck with leaders. Hope you can pull this one off. :)

Yeah don't worry I have the spoon firmly in my grasp. (two of them as a matter of fact)
If you guys didn't play so slowly we might have had a reason to hold on for a few more turns :D

No problem guys. You may have 2 spoons Misfit, but I have a lot of respect for your gambit while on Scout's team. Akots, you're no slouch either! In fact, I haven't seen many in SG's who are weak.

Four now down, and somehow survived turn 4. Lost a cav army due to a dumb move, and have an availanble leader to replace, but no cavs that I can spare. I'll do the cats this round, and a few of the attacks, giving notes for my thoughts on how to finish.

No problem guys. You may have 2 spoons Misfit, but I have a lot of respect for your gambit while on Scout's team. Akots, you're no slouch either! In fact, I haven't seen many in SG's who are weak.

Four now down, and somehow survived turn 4. Lost a cav army due to a dumb move, and have an availanble leader to replace, but no cavs that I can spare. I'll do the cats this round, and a few of the attacks, giving notes for my thoughts on how to finish.

I haven't seen ANY in SGs who are weak. Even when I first game to CFC and started playing, I was a "fair" player, but I pretty much feel the people on CFC, the ones who play and compare like we do, are among the "elite" players. Not only do we have our own styles, and stragims for game play, but we also take from other players on the site until we reach a point where it'd be diffcult to beat one of us. I hope ya'll don't think I'm egotistical for saying this, but truth is truth. we may not all be "top tier" like some that come to mind, (Settler factory?? What's that?;) ) but if there was ever a civ contest, everyone of the top 100 players would be players from CFC.

Cav Army? I don't remember having cavs...

1450 – 0
Prefs are fine. Turn on grid.
Set research to 30% to get chemistry in 16 @ -1gpt instead of 37 @ +40gpt. Don’t have many units to upgrade, can’t trade, can’t spy, can only rush. We’ll try this for a few.

Move vLegion to defend cats at Asti Spumante.
Use 4 cats with Caesar’s Savages to bomb Rus rifle to 1/4.
Look around at the Gate – My, there sure are a lot of units around here! :wow:
And so many blasted ships all around!

IBT: vLegion & eLegion go red on hill near armies N of Gate, pike killed, eLegion killed, killing knight, cav & taking cav red. MoW bomb Arretium,
Veii Legion > legion in 3, Lutetia legion > legion in 5, Gate legion > legion in 8.

1455 – 1
@Tarentum, cats take Eng Cav 1/4, Bab cav 1/4, 4/5 knight -0 kills Eng cav, knight from Antium -0 kills red Bab Cav
@Rheims, cats take 2/4 cav red, German knight to 1/4, LB to 1/4, K Army -0 kills red Bab cav, moves back to stack, move red legion & all cats from hill to army tile,
2 knights from Greek cities -0 kill red German knight
@Arretium, cats take Eng rifle to 1/3, take MoW to 1/4 with 4 shots, Caesare’s Army -2 kills Eng rifle & returns to Arretium.
@Ravenna, cats take 1 each off of Japanese frigate & caravel
@Asti, cats take Greek galley to 1/4

IBT: knight on iron hill @ Tarentum -2 kills cav & promotes, Japanese land 3 cavs at Cumae, 2 cossacks @ Cherbourg. 5 rifles & 2 cavs at Gate.
Pompeii legion > knight in 7, Pisae worker > cat in 7, Trapezus cat > cat in 20, Gap cat > knight in 24, Byzantium legion > legion in 6, Nicopolis galley > cat in 20, Tyrus legion > legion in 10

1460 – 2
@Asti, cats got 2/2 knocking eGalley to 3/5,
@Cumae, cats from Ravenna go 0/3 vs cavs, vLegion dies to cav -2, vLegion dies taking cav to 1/3 > 2/4,
@Arretium, cats go 4/7 against MoW,
@Tarentum, cats take cav to 1/4 & rifle to 1/4 & musket to 1/3, 3/5 knight -0 kills cav & to Tarentum, 4/5 knight -0 kills musket & to Caesarea & forts, knight army -6 killing red rifle
@Rheims, knight -0 kills 2/4 rifle on mountain, knight army -6 kills vRifle on mountain & disbands settler/workers,
Red Machine & 2 legions to Gate, 2 vet legions from Gate to Antium, Legion from Lugdunum to Rome, Defender of Rome to Rome, knight from Caesarea to Antium, Legion from Ravenna to Pompeii, Legion from Hispalis to Cumae, Legion from Byz to Lugdunum, Legion from Tyrus to Londinium, worker to Jerusalem

IBT: single knight on mountain is lost near Gate, 3 Cavs attack Pompeii, killing legion, promoting pike for 1 dead & 2 red, but more transports coming into the harbor.
Rome knight, knight in 4, Corfinium knight > knight in 18, Viroconium legion > legion in 4, Nicomedia legion > legion in 8, Tarentum cat > cat in 10, Eburacum cat > cat in 20

1465 – 3
@Eburacum, cat takes 1 off Bab caravel
@Arretium, cats go 0/7 vs Cossack,
@Caesarea, cat go 2/3 taking 2 off of Rus musket,
@ Gate, cats go 4/8 taking 2 cavs red, 3/8 taking Am rifle red, 2/8 taking Bab rifle to 2/4, Death in South -1 kills vCav on hill, Caesar’s Savages -2 kill red cav, vKnight -0 kills red cav
@Hippo Regius, vGalley dies to 1/4 Greek galley
@Pompeii, 4Knight from Rome -1 kills red cav, vLegion from Rome -1 kills red cav
Knight from Asti to Ravenna, cat from Gap to Treveri, settler to Treveri, vLegion from Treveri to Augustadorum, vLegion from Mediolanum to Treveri, vLegion from Antium to Caesarea, vKnight from Antium to Caesarea, knight from Corfinium to Sirmium

IBT: Abe requests peace strait up – no. He has Republic, Theology, Chemistry, 156g, 10 cities (3 unmapped).
@Caesarea, 4/5 knight -1 kills Cossack, vLegion dies to Bab cav,
@Augustadorum, Legion kills Bab cav, legion retreats Bab cav,
@Cumae, Babs land rifle, Aztecs land 2 each cav & knights
@Pisae, Japanese land 1 each cav & samurai
Veii legion > knight in 6, Lunacantorum cat > legion in 8
Iroquois begin US

1470 – 4
Change Lugdunum musket in 2 to knight in 3.
Rush legion in Lutetia for 36g,
@The Gate, cats take Eng cav red, take 0 off rifle stack, Red Machine -5 kills vRifle on mountain, vLegion -1 kills red cav@Augustadorum, rLegion -0 kills red cav
@Rheims, cats take Fr cav to 1/3, take Bab rifle to 1/4, First Knight Army -1 kills red cav, vKnight -0 kills 3/3 cav
@Tarentum, cats take 2 Bab cavs to 1/4, take 2 Bab rifles to 1/3 & 1/4, Second Knight Army -1 kills red cav, Max’s Bolts -0 kill red cav & -1 kill red rifle, Death in South retreats Cossack, eKnight kills vCossack, vLegion from Antium kills red Cossack
@Caesarea, cats go 3/3 taking Cossack to 1/4, vKNight dies to red Cossack, vLegion dies vs red Cossack,
@Arretium, cats go 3/3 on 1 Eng cav & 1/4 on 2nd Eng cav, Caesare’s Army -0 kills red cav & returns, Aquilae Tarquinis retreats Eng cav
@Jerusalem, cat takes Sam to 3/4, Pisae cats miss, Pisae vLegion -2 kills Sam, vLegion
-2 retreats cav, Pisae vKnight -0 kills red cav
@Cumae, cats go 0/3 vs rifle, Defender of Rome -14 killing vRifle :wow::mad:
@Pompeii, 4/5 knight -0 kills knight, 3/4 legion dies taking vKnight to 3/5 (promo), Ravenna LB goes red killing cav, vLegion dies taking 2 off cav (promo) to 3/5, Ravenna vKnight -1 killing knight, ePike -0 retreats 3/5 cav, eSpear from Londinium -0 kills red cav (Aztecs gone)
Legion from Londinium to Ravenna, Legion from Nicomedia to Corfinium
<save>

IBT: 3/4 legion dies at the Gate, vLegion -3 defeats rifle near Augustadorum,
Antium knight > legion in 3, Lutetia legion > legion in 5, Palmyra legion > legion in 6, Londinium cat > legion in 15, Gordion cat > cat in 20, Treveri cat > Legion in 10. 2nd Knight Army dies in Tarentum due to my mistake :blush: with not returning the Blue Bolts & getting a second kill :sad::cry:.
Aztecs coming in again at Cumae & Japanese at Jerusalem.

1475 – 5
@Rheims, cats take vCossack red & take both rifles from 2 back to 1, vKnight -2 kills red Cossack & joins armies, most units free to move, may want to move S to build road back toward Gate, or ~N toward Rheims.
@Gate, cats take both cavs to 2, Death in the South retreats Am cav, I’d use army to take another rifle off the pile, and possible use legion & knight from Antium to kill 2/4 cav.
@Tarentum, cats go 2/3 taking rPike to red, Max’s Blue Bolts -0 kill red pike & return to Tarentum.
@Cyrene, Gordion cat misses Bab caravel.
@Lugdunum, Trajan forms an empty army.
@Ravenna, eSpear can be upgraded for most of treasury 80/125g. :p
@Arretium, Caesare’s Army could go after pike on hill, Aequilae Tarquinis could go N, but I vote back to Arretium.

There were no landings this turn, so almost all of the ships you see are coming in full.
Notice from ship movements that Japanese are coming from not far W of Verona, or they have a HUGE navy, which I doubt.

Ya Gotta Love it:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/at_war.jpg

I've got it. I'll try and get my five played before tomorrow so Denyd can get to it.

A quick update: two turns played. Maintaining a 5:1 kill ratio. Founded a new city in the NE. Two more cities will befounded next turn. The AI are swarming, thank goodness for the cats. Repelled two landings in the SW.

Hopefully, I can have this up tonight, but more likely tomorrow. Sorry Denyd.

I was able to play seven turns over two days. Progress is steady but slow.

Pre-flight – 1475 AD – Hurry a market in Cumae. Ah, this is a partially played turn. Send two of the settler to the northeastern side of the front.

IBT – Two Japanese cavs and four Aztec cavs are dropped off.

1. 1480 AD – Found Lauriacum in the NE. Bombard and kill two Cossacks. Kill one Aztec with a legion, lose a knight to another. A knight kills a second. I have a 2/4 and ¼ cav left I use a pike to kill the 2/4 and another pike to kill the 1/4.

Over on our Japanese friends, cats get one hp off of each. A legion retreats each of them. Use a legion and then a knight to chase them down and kill them. The Blue Bolts kill a French cav. An elite knight kills another.

Over at the gate, the Red Machine kills a Yank rifle. Death in the South kills another. An eLegion is redlined killing a third. Lose a knight to a 2/4 Yank rifle. Then dispatch him with a reg legion. (14-2)


IBT – Two more Japanese cavs are dropped off, we lose a legion to a Bab cav. A French Cav dies at Lauriacum, (15-3)

2. 1485 AD – The Red Machine takes out a Bab cav. A legion is redlined then rallied and takes out a Japanese cav. A knight takes out the other Japanese cav.

A knight takes out a Cossock. Lose a legion to a Bab cav. Blue Bolts kill two Bab cavs. A mostly healed Defender of Rome kills a Bab cav. An eKnight takes out a Yank rifle. Another eknight kills a German pike. (24-4)

Take a break and play ANK09. This is probably the most intense game I’ve ever played.


Day two – Looking at the histogram, the Japanese and Aztecs appear to be at war, with the Aztecs taking the short end of the stick.

IBT – Kill a cassock at Lauriacum, kill one English cav at Caesarea and lose a legion to another there.

3. 1490 AD – At Caesarea, the Blue Bolts kill a bombarded redlined English cav. The 4th Knight Army takes out two Bab cavs. (29-5)
Found Teurnia between Caesarea and Verona.

IBT – Very busy. In the NE, kill a cassock, lose two legions. The 4th Knight army kills two Bab cavs and dies to a third. A legion kills an English cav.

4. 1495 AD – Found Curia and Neapolis in the NE. The Savages take out a Yank rifle. The 1st kills a German rifle. (35-8)

IBT – Kill a French LB. A French cav is dropped off in our rear. Curia is now the new hot spot.

5. 1500 AD – DitS kills a Yank cav. 1st Knight kills a French cav. An elite knight kills a Yank rifle at Tarentum. Caesar’s Knights kill a Russian musket. Bombard and kill the French cav in the backyard with an elite knight. Kill a French cav on a mountain next to Curia and:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM3_1500_AD_leader.jpg

Build an army of course. Head the army back towards the core to load up. (41-8)

IBT – Our elite* knight is killed by a English cav. Lose a legion at Augustdorum.

6. 1505 AD – Lose an elite knight to a redlined Bab rifle. Lose a legion to the Bab cav at Augustdorum, then kill him. Bump science up to get chemistry in 4.
(42-10)

IBT – The attacks turn into retreats.

7. 1510 AD – The Red Machine retreats an English cav. Defender of Rome kills an English cav. Use a legion to kill a English cav on a mountain. Blue Bolts kill a Bab rifle. Knight kills Bab cav. (46-10)
Science back 10%, chem in 3.

After Action – You will find catapults and units fortified all over the place. Look for them. We have two sets of Japanese units ready to be dropped off and one set of Yanks for the backyard next IBT.

We have a settler due next turn. Keep building settlers. Try and plant a city on the white and yellow dots. The one NNW of the Gate should be priority one. It will be a jumping off point for Sevastopol. Curia will be a good point to launch on Rheims.

Save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/bugsy_SG003_AD1510_01.SAV

Sitrep:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM3_-_1510_Sitrep.jpg

Good job Bugsy! It's getting to the point where are true units are armies... we may need to stack them together to get cities razed.

Are we going to be able to "break-out" anytime soon? I'm feeling pretty... set in our ways... at the moment.:p I don't think this game will change by the time I get it. Sucks having the best UU defender with your closest neighbor.:(

Denyd
G-man
Alerum
Bede
R & L
Bugs

Denyd, think you can implement that battle plan you suggested a few turns ago?

BTW- Where are the workers?!

I think once we get cavs we can start breaking out. For right now I'd just keep inching the front forward. Stick a settler, some cats, and some units under an army and plant a new city.

The AI are now bypassing the Gate and trying to head inland. Keep some units back in reserve.

The workers are over by Arretium working on a road under an army.

nice play bugs! slow and mean. looks like we're close to cannons so that should make things a little more fun. cannon + knights can play hell with an early IA civ, not sure how it'll do against 10 of them :lol:

the ai has been trying to bypass the gate for a while, probably more so now that we're clogging up the NE. the white dot NNE of the gate should definitely be a priority as that seemed to be a popular rest area during my turns (there and the tile to the SW).

good luck denyd!

Here's a thought from studying the sitrep screen shot: Joanie doesn't have many East Coast cities. If we can raze Rheims, we can expand up the East Coast and have a jumping off point for Paris.

Here's a thought from studying the sitrep screen shot: Joanie doesn't have many East Coast cities. If we can raze Rheims, we can expand up the East Coast and have a jumping off point for Paris.
i was kind of thinking the same. there's also a lot of flat land there that will allow for nice kill zones if we settle NE or SE of Rheims' current site.

Have a city every two tiles will create a nice kill zone. Almost have a SirPleb style gauntlet.

Nice job, Bugsy! :thumbsup:
You did some of the things I wanted to, but couldn't seem to get done.

You didn't mention it specifically, but I'm guessing that the unloaded army I left in the backfield became the 4th Knight Army?

Ok, looks like it's my turn again. I'll take a look at it tonight and try to get 5 done by the end of tomorrow.

I have to agree with Bugys about this being a very intense game.

You didn't mention it specifically, but I'm guessing that the unloaded army I left in the backfield became the 4th Knight Army?
Yes, may they rest in peace. Our glorious war dead. BTW, let's follow Patton's rule and make the other dumb SOB become the glorious war dead.

My monitor decided it was time to be retired last night and I won't be able to get a replacement until Saturday, so I'll need a skip/swap until Sunday. Sorry for the inconvience. I'll try to take a look at the map today (w/CRPrings, no game at work) and offer some suggestions.

OK, let's do this, we'll slide you two slots. Hopefully that will work out for you.

G-Man - Up
Alerum - On deck
Denyd
Bede
R&L
Bugs

ok, i'll start on it tonight.

That would be great, thanks.

I'll have to remember you were so kind when I write up the COTM4 spoiler. That's about all I can do until the weekend. I'll be shaking with Civ withdrawals by then. I reached about 1000 AD on Monday with the game (not quite qualified for what will be spoiler 2), so I'll be limited to writing up those results until Saturday.

Preflight check: Go thru all the cities for sanity checks. Fire as many scientists as possible, putting the Citizens back to work if feasible or making them taxman, verifying each time I don’t cost us a turn in research.

Trevari is very precarious. 1 Legion defending and a healthy Cossack in range. Move the Legion in Byz up to the N so it can help out this the defenses. At least I’ll get 2 shots at the Cossack if he takes the town.

Use a cat to take a hp off a Frigate near Ravenna

Hurry walls in the NE cities (Curia, Neapolis, and Lauriacum for 72g total)

5th Knight army seems to be headed for the rear to load up. I may keep them back there as a rear guard for landings.

IBT: Russian Cossack kills Legion @ Augustadorum but is redlined; English cav kills Legion near the Gate; redlined French cav kills a pike @ Lauriacum, retreat a vet cav @ Neapolis 0-3
Qty (6) American cav’s show up to the NW Mountains of Tarentum

T1: 1515AD Redline a Cossack with cats near Curia, then use the 1st knight army to flawless kill a redlined French cav (11/17) and turn around to take care of the redlined Cossack (6/17). 2-3
Redline a French Cav outside Lauriacum with cats.
Kill the redlined Cossack between Lauriacum and Augustadorum 3-3
North-Center
@The Gate: Cats go 4 for 13 on 2 English cav. Death in the South Army kills 1 (15/17); Use The Red Machine to attack a 4/4 English cav on a hill near Antium since I don’t have any more cats that could get there without being captured next turn and it retreats the cav (11/19). I really want Defender of Rome to heal but I also want to kill the 2 redlined cav so I attack with it and kill both flawlessly (11/18) 6-3
@Terentum: Cats go 3 for 5 on a vet English rifle but I must hold off killing it (see below)
Rotate a legion up to Tarentum since it will be hammered next turn via 6 American cav and 1 Babylonian cav. Rotate Veii Settler up towards the Gate.
NW
Bombard French Rifle (1/3) near Arrentum; Road on hill is finished so Legion army moves back to town and knight army moves NWN to cover workers.
Center
Cats go 1 for 3 on the 2 Jap Cav’s; Knight redlines Jap cav but dies; another Knight kills a ¾ Cav (2/4); elite knight kills redlined Jap cav 8-4

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/sgotm3-bugs-1515AD-frontline.jpg

IBT: 5 babylonian cav’s show up; American cav’s ignore Tarentum but instead kill the Legion protecting our 2 workers;
New road NW of Arrentum is removed via Ironclad bombardment. 8-5

Go get something to eat as this is getting extremely hairy.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/sgotm3-1520AD.jpg

Hairy is a good way to describe it.

T2: 1520AD Notice that someone abandoned the temple @ The Gate when it has 94/100 culture. Couldn’t we have waited 3 more turns? :lol:
In the NE
Knight Army returns to Curia to heal.
Vet Legion kills redlined French cav N of Lauriacum. 9-7
North-Center
Cats of Tarentum go 11 for 20, wounding all but 1 cav next to it (hoping for retreats but not likely :( )
Red Machine retreats 1 Babylonian cav on iron but is badly damaged (6/19) 10-7
Blue Bolts kill 1 American cav and 1 Babylonian cav 12-7
Elite Knight kills American cav (2/5) 13-7
Defender of Rome kills an American cav but loses 4hp(7/17) 14-7
Elite Knight is redlined but kills 4/5 American cav near Teurnia 15-7
Rotate elite Pike and Legion N to cover Teurnia and Caesarea
Arrentium cats go 3 for 7 on vet American rifle

Center, near Pompeii
Cats go 1 for 3 on the Jap Cav’s; Knight dies to cav without scratching it; elite knight redlines but kills vet cav; 5th Knight Army kills the cav. 17-8

IBT: Lose an elite knight and an elite Legion. Lose the Red Machine after it retreats 1 American cav 17-11

Chemistry -> metal (13T @ -1gpt)

T3: 1525AD
In the NE
In Curia, cats go 5 for 9, redlining a French cav and a Babylonian rifle.
In Neapolis, cats go 3 for 5, redlining a Cossack
Army’s need to heal this turn since there are at least 2 Cossacks within strike range so no kills up there.
North Center
At The Gate, cats go 3 for 3 on a Cossack
Switch to Tarentum to see if the PRNG still goes my way and it does as I go 3 for 3 and redline a Bab cav.
Switch to Arretium’s cats and go 3 for 6 on a Bab cav there. Then use Caesare’s Army to kill it 18-11
Defender’s of Rome kill a Bab cav, then jump into Tarentum to heal.(6/18) 19-11
Blue Bolts kill an American Cav 20-11
Knight kills a 2/4 cav 21-11
Cats at The Gate redline a German swordsman
Hurry walls in Teurnia

Defenses are getting thin so the core is going to build some bodies quickly, then go back to knights.

Center
Bombard Jap ships as they leave the bay. No landings so units rest


IBT: retreat 1 Babylonian cav and 1 Cossack, Kill 1 Cossack and 1 French Cav 23-11

T4: 1530AD
In the NE
At Curia, cats go 3 for 6 and redline a Babylonian rifle, 1st Knight army kills it flawlessly 24-11
Center-North
The situation in Tarentum and The Gate is practically unbearable. Every move will result in something bad happening to us and the Blue Bolts are starting to get beaten-up.
Bombard like crazy around Tarentum, going 5 for 6 and redlining a French cav and a Babylonian rifle.
Elite knight kills the redlined French cav. 25-11
Move Death in the South out of The Gate with cats and bombard 3 Babylonian cav’s on the hill between Gate and Tarentum, going 5 for 12 but redlining 2 of the 3 cavs, leaving a 2/4 cav for the Army to attack but it retreats. The Gate can be hit by 1 cav so I move a second legion up from Antium.
At Arretium, cats go 0 for 9 against a rifle in the mountain to it’s N.
Rotate troops up to cover Caesarea as it’s under threat by 3 cav’s next turn.
Blue bolts kill a redlined Cossack that was on Tarentum’s game forest (11/18) 26-11

In the NE
Decide to leader fish with an elite legionary on one of those pesky Cossacks. Kill it but no leader 27-11.

In the Center
Cat go 3 for 3 on a Jap frigate, exposing the galley but we don’t have a galley around to jump it.
Cats go 1 for 2 on an American Ironclad.
Set troops up to handle the next landing.

IBT: American cav’s run past our cities to their favorite hill between the Gate and Tarentum. Their galley drops off 1 spear :D
England runs 3 toward to the iron hill as well.
Retreat 1 Babylonian cav @ The Gate
Kill 1 English cav @ Caesareum
Kill 1 French LB @ Neapolis 28-11

T5: 1535AD Treasury is running low so I turn off research for 1T.
In the NE
At Curia, cats go 3 for 5, redlining a Babylonian rifle. I will let this one retreat as there are 3 Cossacks in striking range right now.
At Lauriacum, cats go 2 for 5 vs a German knight on a mountain.
North-Center
At Tarentum, cats go 9 for 19, redlining all 3 English cav’s on our iron hill.
Cats then go 1 for 3 vs Babylonian cav N of town.
Near the gate, cats go 4 for 9 on 2 American cavs, redlining both (they were injured by the Army’s in Tarentum); Death in the South kills one of them, while a knight kills the second 30-11
Use the 4/5 knight in Tarentum to kill a redlined English cav on the hill, and another knight to kill a second one 32-11
Use Caesare’s Army to kill a ¾ Babylonian cav N of Tarentum 33-11

Center
Bombard and redline a Jap galley, take 2hp off a Greek galley
Cats go 2 for 3 vs American spear and kill it with an elite knight 34-11

Now that the frontline is a little more stabilized, I take a break for tonight :)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/sgotm3-bugs-1535AD.jpg


Zoomed into the real action :) I have a settler at The Gate and can probably run him up in 2T or so.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/sgotm3-bugs-1535AD-1.jpg

kill zones for the idiots going into our bay (note the cats on either side of the inlet. once troop carriers are damaged, they "freeze" till thier escort comes to get them. There is currently a Babylonian galleon frozen S of Eburacum)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/sgotm3-bugs-1535AD-2.jpg

suggestions, comments, anything welcome. I'll get back to this tomorrow so we have a little time to stratigize.

Cats are saving our skin right now. Getting that settler NNW of the Gate will be a major move. With some cats there we can start hitting the AI units much earlier. Sort of turning into SirPleb's gauntlet.

very true, and we get cannons in about 12T. those should hit cav's about 70% of the time vs the current 50%. Upgrade cost will be 40g per cat so we may want to turn off research for 2T to get about 200g and upgrade 5 at the front quickly. The rest can get upgraded as we have cash.

Nice work G-Man. :clap:

I agree about the cannons. Having muskets and cannons in the frontline might allow those defending armies to move on to offensive duties. If we happen to get another army, we could load it with a couple of defenders and a knight and send it on a horse pillaging mission.

I'm thinking we should complete metallurgy & military tradition and then turn off science for a while and concentrate on upgrades. (Delay long enough to get those front line cats upgraded though). It's probably a good idea to have those southern cities each build one last catapult before the cannon arrive.

Once again, well played Grahamiam. :hatsoff:

All hail, catapults! We'd have been out of this a long time ago without them.

I'm continually amazed that even though we push the cities forward, the penetration range of the AI troops is pretty much the same. We need to get to that next ring of mountains / hills / etc. to really form a new front. I am disheartened when even our stongest players (which is pretty much everyone, since I'm the low man on the team) end up working hard to keep holding the perimeter - then every 100 turns or so, we get a burst of expansion. Who will it be next? Fortunately, the landings haven't been a real problem yet, even though they can be neavy, and cerrtainly are consistant. Given the current progression of the game, I think we could win eventually. The question is, will it be before 2050...

Come on cannons and cavs!

As we keep moving forward, we are slowly taking away land and tiles from the AI. With the founding of Curia, there is one less horse source that the AI can use. We just need to keep building settlers and slowly creep forward. When we get cavs, I think we will be able to break out. That's what happened in the 3CC AW game we played in DI1. We just need to keep cranking out settlers even if we can't use them right away.

IBT: Lose 1 vet Legion in Caesarea from American cav 34-12. Indians come calling but I don’t answer.
Kill 1 Cossack in Lauriacum
Kill 1 French cav in Neapolis 36-12
3 Babylonian cav come into view near Arretium, 2 more near The Gate

T6: 1540AD Turn research back up to 40% (metal in 11 @ -8gpt)
In the NE
At Curia, cats go 5 for 16 on 2 Babylonian rifles.
At Neapolis, cats go 0 for 5 on a German rifle on a hill.
Use a knight to kill a 2/4 German knight near Curia 37-12
Center-North
At The Gate, cats go 4 for 7, reducing to Babylonian cavs to 2hp each.
Death in the South moves N to hill with 6 cats and 1 settler.
At Tarentum, cats go 5 for 15, redlining an American cav and a Babylonian rifle.
Use a 4/5 knight to kill the redlined cav 37-12
Use the Defenders of Rome to kill the rifle 38-12
Center
Bombard ships in the bay, redlining a Greek galley (1 for 2), hitting an American ironclad (redlined), and the Galley it was protecting (3hp of 5 left)
Not sure, but I think Babylon is abandoning ships at sea as a galley that was protected last turn no longer has it’s escort will be frozen again.
Redline a Greek galley near Hippo Regius
Blue Bolts and Caesares Army can heal this turn and get back to full strength for next turn.
Look around and decide to use Ceasar’s Savages in Curia to attack a 2/4 rifle, killing it but losing 13hp 39-12
Hit space before I get any more bright ideas.

IBT: See a redlined Greek galley take out the redlined American Ironclad. Now that’s balls.
@Lauriacum: 3 Cossacks die vs cats and Legions 42-12
@The Gate: Cossack retreats
@Neapolis: Cossack retreats
See this happy sight
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/sgotm3-bugs-1545AD.jpg
infantry, just when we start to pull even, they pull away again :crazyeye:
T7: 1545AD
In the NE
At Neapolis, cats go 1 for 5 vs a German rifle on desert (3/4)
At Curia, cats go 3 for 9 vs German rifle on mountain, redlining it.
At Lauricum, cats go 1 for 6 vs Babylonian rifle on mountain (3/4)
Center-North
At Tarentum, cats go 3 for 7 vs French rifle on desert (1/4)
Near Caesarea, cats go 3 for 4 vs 3 Babylonian cavs (all ¾)
Blue Bolts kill 1, Elite Knight dies flawlessly to a second 43-13
Bring out 8 cats to redline the 2 cavs, then kill 1 with the Blue Bolts and a third with a 3/5 knight 45-13
Caesare’s Army kills the redlined French rifle 46-13
Cover exposed cats with 2 Legions (1 English cav in range)
Settler with Army and cats moves N near the Gate.
Core
Cats hit various ships. Looks like a Jap galley may land @ Pisae instead of the bay.

IBT: various things move back and forth. Japs Samuria and LB dropped off N of Pisae, away from our cats. English want to talk but I show them the hand. Barracks in Arretum are destroyed by a French frigate
Lose 1 Legion covering cats 46-14

T8: 1550AD
In the NE
At Curia, cats go 4 for 16 vs rifles and Cossacks, taking 1hp off 4 German rifles.
At Neapolis, cats go 2 for 5, redlining one of the rifles.
Vet Knight kills it 47-14
Found Gramstand NNW of The Gate. Cats in that town go 3 for 6, dinging 3 cavs nearby. Use Death in the South to kill an American cav 48-14
Move 3 more cats and an Elite* Legion into town.
Center-North
At Arretum, cats go 3 for 13 vs 2 English cavs, redlining 1 but not touching the other.
3/5 knight kills ¾ English cav 49-14
Caesare’s Army kills a French cav 50-14
Blue Bolts kill an English cav 51-14
core
Cats go 2 for 4 vs Jap Samerai
5th Knight Army kills the Samurai but is badly damaged (3/12). Didn’t realize I would loss so many movement points attacking and now I can’t get the damn army back to a town.
Kill the longbow with a vet Legion 53-14

IBT: Retreat a Babylonian cav at The Gate, Walls in Arretum are destroyed by navel bombardment, too many units move in on us, much more than we can handle.
Aztecs drop off a rifle in the core

T9: 1555AD
in the NE
At Neapolis, cats go 2 for 5, damaging a German knight and a Cossack.
At Lauricum, cats go 0 for 6 on 2 Cossacks on the adjacent mountain.
Reinforce a couple of towns to make sure the Cossacks cannot capture anything.
At Gramstand, cats go 0 for 9 vs rifle on mountain
Use the 1st Knight Army to kill a redlined Cossack, revealing another Cossack behind Rheims
Center-North
At Tarentum, cats go 3 for 9 vs Babylon cav to redline it but an elite knight loses 5 straight. Kill it with a vet knight 55-15
Use 5 cats to redline a Babylonian cav on a hill near Antium, then kill it with a legion 56-15
Kill another redlined Bab cav near The Gate 57-15
Caesare’s Army kills 2 reg French cav’s but is badly damaged (9/18) 59-15
At Arretium, cats go 1 for 3 on the cav, then hit 2 of the 3 infantry (2 for 11). Rush walls in Arretium.
Core
Near Pompeii, cats go 0 for 3 vs rifle on irrigated grass.
Longbow dies without scratching it 59-16
Knight retreats, taking off 2hp, Knight is redlined but kills it 60-16

IBT: Lose 1 Legion at The Gate, retreat 1 Cossack and kill 1 Cossack at Augustadorum
(retreated 1 as well) 61-17

T10: 1560AD Science rate is unsustainable. Turn it down 10%, increasing time to metal from 7T to 9T.
In the NE
At Lauriacum, elite legion kills redlined Cossack 62-17
At Curia, cats go 2 for 2, redlining a Cossack. Kill it with an elite Knight 63-17.
At Curia, cats go 2 for 13, taking 2hp off a Babylon rifle on a mountain
At Gramstand, cats go 4 for 9, redlining a ¾ American cav and taking 2hp off a Babylon rifle.
Center –North
At the Gate, cats go 1 for 5 on German rifle on mountain
At Tarentum, cats go 9 for 17, damaging 3 cavs (2 ¼, other 2/4) and 1 rifle (3/4)
At Caesarea/Teurnia, cats go 1 for 2, damaging a French cav.
At Arretium, cats go 6 for 14, redlining an infantry, taking 2hp off an American rifle, and doing 1pt of damage on another Infantry.
At The Gate, elite* legion redlines but kills American cav 64-17
Between Gate and Tarentum, Knight kills redlined cav (promotes) 65-17
Caesare’s Army kills other redlined cav 66-17
Defender of Rome kills a full strength American cav 67-17
Blue Bolts kill the ¾ French cav flawlessly (15/18) 68-17
Blue Bolts move out and kill a French 3/3 cav (12/18) 69-17
Vet knight kills 2/4 American cav and promotes 70-17
Core
Redline an Aztec Caravel with 2 cats (2 for 2), but lose a galley trying to sink it 70-18
Cats go 1 for 2 redlining it again (1/4)

Found my alma matter, Syracuse, on a gold hill in the S that was never going to be worked, hoping to boost income but it doesn't do anything but add unit support.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/sgotm3-bugs-1560AD-NW.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/sgotm3-bugs-1560AD-NE.jpg

:wow:
Wow - infantry! Nice job holding back the tide Grahamiam! Probably too many salt to pillage, and in any case, we'd have to get there first.

Off topic, my wife went to 'cuse too.


Say, can any of you guys clue me in as to how to clean out my submissions folder / file? I'm getting close to my allotment. Thanks! :D

It doesn't matter. They don't need salt peper to build infantry. They can build it as much as they want, no matter what we cut off, or do to them. Every single city in their empire can build AT least Infantry at this point. That may be helpful, at least until they get tanks... it means we'll have movement points on our side.

Movement points... I never thought of it that way. Thanks for the lift!

Let's see, I think Alerum is up with Denyd on deck. Gramstand is going help a lot. I think we need to plant a city in that rubble NW-N of Arretium and another city 2 NE of Arretium. That will force the AI to go off the mountains to heal. 2SE of Sevastopol would be great also, but :rolleyes:

Oops. Didn't realize it was me who was up. I won't be able to get to it tonight I'm afraid, but I should be able to tackle at least 2 turns tommorow. Classes are kicking my arse... I'm not used to this.

Edit: Oh yeah... had a thought. What about settling cities in enemy territory? How does everyone feel about it?

Just as long as we can support them with a proper defense, I think it would be great.

Nice work G-Man a new city and holding the line on defense.

The problem with facing infantry isn't their attacking ability, which is equal to cavalry, it that 10 on defense. Our legions won't be much good at less than 33% hit chances and our knights aren't much better. If we can red-line them with cannons (double the bombard of cats) we'll stand a much better chance of killing them with limited damage to the armies.

BTW, I hope that's not the fat lady singing (though I think our chances of winning are less than that of Ralph Nader getting elected). Though I have to ask, is there a point where we say enough or do we just wait for the AI to either launch or get elected?

You should play it out if you can bear it. All the other teams will also be interested in how they stack up against you. In any case, you haven't reached steam yet.

:coffee: Checking the score card, Handy's team has lost.

that is a fat lady singing :lol:, as i don't see how we can pull this off atm. arty's + cav, ok, can do, but cannons + cav? and 9+ turns with cats? we will need a lot of cannon, and things will just get harder. I don't see how we can lose via conquest, either, until a huge stack of tanks/panzers show up.

if we want to go pillage, the army will need 2 knights accompaning it as I suspect there's a lot of railroads up N (based on the sudden ability of common AI units to arrive together in large stacks).

The problem with pillaging is not knowing where to pillage. We've discovered horses & saltpeter (cavalry), but we have no idea where to pillage to cut off rubber (infantry).

On a side note, I'm hoping to pick up a new monitor on Saturday afternoon and should be ready to go by Sunday noon (though I'm not sure I want to hurry back to this one)

for pillaging an empire that is so far ahead that i don't know where thier stratigic resourses are located, i usually use fast units to cutoff the capitol, then try to pillage a line across the narrowest line of thier empire so half can't build the unit. works great in C3C with uber army's but in PTW with army pillaging off, I think that'll be very hard to pull off. plus, we need bodies for the NW push.

Makes sense. I guess my pillaging suggestion was pointless for this stage of the game, as I forgot that we couldn't see the rubber. Maybe in my spare time ( :lol: ), I'll replay it with the suggestion from earlier about going for fast contacts, and max pillaging / "hugging".

Turn 0 (1560AD)
See that muskets aren't much better then legionary, and they can't attack as well... we need attack strentgh now. So, no Muskets builds...

IBT
lost legion at the gate to a cav.
lose some citizen to naval bombard in 2 cities
aztecs unload a unit near cumae
cav attack caesarea, and legion falls
oh my, oh my, oh my, there are alot of units.
ROME? riots? But they were happy last I checked. Did we loose a resource that I missed?!
Scroll ahead and Viroconium would have rioted too, even though both were happy when I hit enter.

Turn 1(1565AD)
We'd be in much better shape if anyone had taken my advice from my last turn and built some roads all the way to the border. We'd be able to attack and retreat instead of leaving units.
Death in the South, which has worked his way far to the north, retreats a bab cav.
go 2 for 13 trying to bombard a english infantry.. (gulp)
@Tarentum - Elite Knight vs 1hp Bab cav - win, 1 dam
Defender of Rome takes out bab cav, and goes to Tarentum to heal a bit.
Max's blue Bolts vs vet bab cav - win, 2 dam
repeat - 3 hps that time. only 3 cavs left in that stack. (rolls eyes)
Elite Knight vs 3hps rifle - retreats back into Curia. Deals no damage
1st Knight Army vs same rifle - kills rifle, gets a bit hurt though.
repeat - sorry guys, I lost our 1st Knight Army.
Where's all our Dromons?! Oops, wrong game... that ones alot more fun.
vet legion vs 1hp aztec inf - win, no dam


IBT
bab cav kills a knight near tarentum
keep getting majorly bombarded by sea, lucky none seem to take.
caeseara looses a musket to a cav
Then it takes out a cav with a knight.
another cav attacks, and falls to a second knight.
walls in verona bombarded. is okay, don't need 'em.
Japan starts Theory of Evolution

Turn 2 (1570AD)
Tarentum @
Defender of rome takes out a american cav, then goes for the one below it
Bombard the borders, but because there are no roads, I have no safe moves and must leave the injured units.

Alot of regular units have been built, and are being built. Since Bugsy is usually the one complaining about it, and he's the one who passed it off to me, I'm assuming that we're at the point where it doesn't matter, just get units out on the field for the meat grinder?

Alright, so I did take out a few units... but I did it under bad terms, and left some units exposed.:(

IBT
I hate those damn american cavs! They gather around our cities again.
And Japan's subs bombard our roads along the border, taking none out.
So do aztecks, and russians take out a legion.
german.... aggression... is... severe...
verona looses it's barracks, and citizen to english MoWs
then a 1hp cav takes out a legion, and a 2 hp one is retreated
damn the english!

Turn 3 (1575AD)
take out an english cav with army in arretum
use Knight army to take out other 2 cavs there.
Send workers south to hook up incense again. A cat and a settler go with by mistake.
caeser's army takes out a bab cav, turns north and takes out another, lossing 4hps this time.


IBT
road ruined by japan bombardment from sea.
bab cav attacks caesarea and dies.
england bombas the hell out of Verona.


Turn 4 (1580AD)
Take out german rifle with legion, but redlined.
take out german rifle with knight.
army is hurt bad by 2hp cav, but wins.
defender of rome takes out bab rifle easily.
legion takes out german rifle near neapolis redlined, no promotion
repeat as above, perfectly.
vet knight vs 1hp german rifle - win, no dam, no promotion
Savages take out german rifle, with 2 dam
Knight retreats from the second rifle there.
legion army takes out english infantry, but is hurt badly by it. 14 hps lost on one assault.

IBT
trapeuz's walls are bombarded away
bab cav attacks caesarea and dies
loose knight to 1hp rifle!?
babs drop off some cavs.
pike falls to inf at arretium
Then we take out inf with our 1hp army
but fall to the second.
I lost 2 armies?!
Shoot me now.

Turn 5 (1585AD)
Death in the South takes out rifle at Gramstand
Kill Bab spear near the south, but redline the knight I used.
Legion takes out bab cav in the south, and is redlined too. We now have a wall of units in that little bay where they love to drop off units.

Notes:
The easiest way I see of beating this game is to launch an assult against Aztecs and Japan when we get cavs, and drop them on the historgraph and just bring this one to turn 540.

France is done. They're sending 1-2 units per a turn, and there was 1 turn where no unit came. If we're trying to soften them up, don't worry, they're as soft as they're going to get.:p Raze their first row of cities, and pray the AI can't fill it before we do.

ROAD TO THE BORDER DAMN IT! I can't stress enough how much better shape we'll be in if we stop trying to improve corrupt citys with mines, and instead focus on the WAR!!!!!! ROADS!!!

Here's the
save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/bugsy_SG003_AD1585_01.SAV). Good luck!

detail of the front, looks grim. bede definitely will have his hands full on the 1st turn. Caesarea looks like its about to be overwelmed (2 defenders with more than 3 attackers in range). Hopefully, the AI lives up to it's normal ineptness.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/sgotm3-bugs-1585AD-1.jpg

@alerum -> bodies were my idea, not bugsy's. i always prefer vets as well, but in this game, we're up against the wall and i didn't feel we had a choice nor did we have the chance to wait. also, please calm down with the roads thing. everyone is trying thier best under difficult circumstances. i was trying to road in the begining of my turns in the NE but got frustrated as the workers were stuck in town (Lauriacum), doing nothing, due to the large number of AI units. so I sent them back to road and mine around Antium, as we could always use more spt in the core.

Getting those roads built was impossible. Too many heavy attack units in the due north. Last set the only place I could build roads was the NE.

Play it first thing in the morning tomorrow. Look it over tonight.

You guys are doing a heckuva a job keeping us alive :thumbsup:

Will try to game up to the standards set since the last set.

That is an ugly picture for sure. :sad: We're all giving it the good fight, though, and have to hang on.

While I'd prefer to stay the course, as I don't see us going any place by changing this late, I will now concede to giving up on the variant if the whole team so wills. Perhaps we could get enough peace to survive a few extra turns. We do have to keep in mind that that is all we'll get from it, as our rep was trashed eary on, we have no oney, and are so far behind, that we have no techs to trade, except maybe to Greece. Alas, defeat in abandoning the variant...

i don't want to abandon the varient now. i know it's hopeless, but what do we gain by changing now? i vote to play it out, pain and all :) plus, i always need work on fighting defensive wars. it's something you have to do at diety and sid so this is as good a time as any to hone those skills.

Honing skills is right.....

As Bugsy would say....

Fight like mad dogs, fight!

Stay the course.

Sorry about the road thing, but those we're a very painful 5 turns that could have been much easier if we had put an army with some workers and roaded as tiles became open in the northwest.

Sorry about the road thing, but those we're a very painful 5 turns that could have been much easier if we had put an army with some workers and roaded as tiles became open in the northwest.
Which we did and the road promptly got bombarded from the sea. You will notice a whole lot more roads northwest of Caesarea, however, those workers were captured then put to the sword. Comparing the first save with the last save in my turns, I got three tiles roaded.

So did you build any roads? Or did you find it as difficult as the rest of us?

Slamming people isn't going to get us further along. Dealing with each situation as it comes up and trying to get ahead of the AI is how we're going to win.

Yes, I built roads on my turns. I said I was sorry Bugsy. Either you can take that, and move on, or slam me for it. As for the roads being bombarded by sea, that's a non issue, because the action is not happening by the sea, but inland.

Sorry, I suppose I need to read things more thoroughly.

The meatgrinder grinds slowly and finely but it grinds.

Post tonight.

Just to confirm, with Bede playing, that I'm on deck? We've mixed it around a bit this round. I'm not trying to grab it, just trying to confirm. Thanks.

That order works for me. I got my replacement monitor and installed it last night ($109 for a 17" monitor. Must be bacause nobody wants the non-flat panel screens anymore).

I just caught up on all the action since last Friday and I'm not in any big hurry to take my turn as Davy Crockett on the Alamo walls.

I do think it might be possible to win this one if we abandoned the variant. With France and England in their weakened state we could hammer on them until we got to their final city and then grabbed a bunch of tech for peace. That might get us close to tech parity and then we could repeat that on America & Russia and again on Babylon & Germany. Then go back and start eliminating the remains. With tech parity and the full continent under control the other island would not offer much resistance. If we stay with the variant, we might be able eventually take out France or England (maybe both if we got lucky), but we'd never be able to catch up on tech and eventually either the vote would happen or they would launch. So I guess it's a decision between "DIE WITH YOUR BOOTS ON" or "HE WHO FIGHT'S AND RUNS AWAY, LIVES TO FIGHT ANOTHER DAY".

Well we've played this so long in variant mode that all we would get is a hollow victory. If we keep playing and lose, it will be a learning experience. If we win, what a victory.

R&L - You'll be next to wear the Davey Crokett hat after our favorite Monk.

I can't believe you guys are really talking about it.:p I don't want to stop the varient. The AI would become even more powerful if we did! No, we just have to keep "the meatgrinder" coming as Bede says.

Incidentally, the posting for SGOTM4 is up - to start 9/20.

Alerum68: My suggestion was based on three things.

1. The need to finish this game before SGOTM4 comes out (edit: just read prior post)
2. A selfish reason, that I've never lost a SG yet. (9 wins in 9 games)
3. The fact that the turns are taking longer and are more stressful than any I've played before. (this is supposed to be fun)

While I'm not advocating surrender, I don't believe there is any chance to turn this game into a victory under the current conditions. I'm willing to give each turn set a maximum effort, but all we seem to be able to do is tread water and soon the AI will be getting tanks, planes and then nukes. Even if we managed to get to cavalry soon, it's just a matter of when not if we'll get overrun.

While I'm not advocating surrender, I don't believe there is any chance to turn this game into a victory under the current conditions. I'm willing to give each turn set a maximum effort, but all we seem to be able to do is tread water and soon the AI will be getting tanks, planes and then nukes. Even if we managed to get to cavalry soon, it's just a matter of when not if we'll get overrun.
i think your right so let's consider an alternative...

everyone agrees that this is a grind, not particularly fun to play, and very intense, right? perhaps we just conceed the inevitable and accelerate it in a blaze of defiance! strike France, selling out our defenses. try to sack all her cities while leaving little to defend our own. take the remaining legion army (i think only 1 is left) and send it out with 25+ cats. take all the remaining knights and knight army's behind it and start razing france to the ground. leave a legion or 2 in the remaining cities, destroy roads in the core to slow down the AI's advance, whatever, just lash out with our remaining offensive weapons and try to kill France before we are killed. maybe even stack 35 legions in 1 town, on a hill, with walls, abandoning the rest of the towns, and let the rest of the units go till they're exhausted, whatever makes the most fun.


might be a little more fun and it'll take the pressure off. and who knows, maybe we'll kill france 1st and get to start in on someone else?

A Battle of the Bulge style assult? I love it. But should we do it now, or wait til we can get Cavs?!

I think when we get cavs we can just go nuts. We'll gather a force of ten cavs and just cut them loose.

Edit - So as the kind of leader guy, do you guys want to keep the team together for SGOTM4 or go our separate ways? I understand either way.

We could sign up as a team or individuals.

I'm hoping we'll be able to stay together for SGOTM4.

I'll probably sign up later tonight.

Next question for everyone to consider, do we want to try the 5CC variant?

I think with this bunch of builders, we should be able to kick butt. Remember that this is the game where we share a continent with X-man, and he has the only iron on the continent. So it isn't as simple as just building five cities and becoming a cultural giant.

Further, we would need to consider which victory condition we would want to go for. Conquest would be very difficult. Obviously domination would be out. A 20K cultural would be possible, 100K would be difficult without getting 20K first. Diplo is always an option.

0-1585
Caesearea falls and is garrisoned by infantry.(English)

1-1590
Cripple French cav at Curia and elite knight spawns Maximus.

Bombard English infantry at Caesaearea and kill citizens instead and then the barracks....

Max's Blue Bolts kill two wounded infantry and die to the third. Defender of Rome fails miserably and collapses in a heap. Cover the cats with two legions.

Pull back to Teurnia and abandon Arretium. It is too exposed and defending pulls units out of the north.

Cripple a Cossack at Gramstad.

Manuver around to protect the core.

Tarrentum is going to take it on the gates now...six cavs of various nationality in range...and it fall to the Americans.

Lose three legions and a bunch of workers to the Babs and a road is pillaged from Curia to The Gate.

2-1595

Hold our own. Lose a few, kill a few. Ratio about 1:1

A whole pile of cats is exposed at Tarrentum covered by a single wounded legion who fought off two American cav. No way to save them or protect them.

Verona falls to three American cavalry.

Russian Cossack kills a legion and takes Cumae.




3-1600

Retake Cumae at the cost of a single legion.

Abandon Tuernia. It is surrounded by cavs of all nations.

Aztecs have snuck a cavalryman and infantry ashore at Pisae. Scrape up four defenders for the town.

Kill a few lose a few. This is not good. The Gate and Gramstad are surrounded by cavalry of all nations. Most are wounded by cat fire. A few are not.

Legion at Antium defeats attacking American cavalry and Germanicus is spawned.

The Gate holds off twqo Russians and four Bab cavalry and Jerusalem successfully defends against American cavalry. Defense at Pisae kills infantry and retreats cavalryman. The bad news is Neapolis is taken by French cavlary from Rheims and we lose a legion defender and more workers at The Gate.

4-1605

Trade a few more units. Try to distribute defense to hold off expected attacks.

Metalurgy comes in and upgrade the cats I can afford at The Gate and in Curia.

No significant battles.

Japanese build ToE

5-1610
Kill a few, lose one.

Sorry for the pull back, guys, but it was just stretched too thin. The baddies kept moving onto the core and I couldn't move units around fast enought to keep them out. More than once Antium and Rome were threatened and trying to keep the outlying cities was costing units and cats.

The big push in is now in the NE

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/sgotm3-bugs-1610AD.jpg

To Team Bugs:
How about a straight SG with you guys, instead of SGOTM4. Maybe C3C Demi-god as the Zulus on a small pan' map?

Harsh harsh turns. I knew at least 1 city would fall on your turn, there was no way to avoid it, but that was still harsh. Well, I think if we're going to do the Battle of the Bulge, and break out, I guess now is the time. Like Bede said, going up the Northeast is a sound option... probably our only one. The English and their infs are stopping us on the west, but the french are weaker on the east coast.

Where did you get the graphic mod for your mountains? I like them alot.

I'm always willing to play an SG with you Bede. But as for demi-god... wow, that may be a bit much for me... and the Zulu?;)

bloody turns, bede, very bloody. looks like the big crunch has begun as we're 12T from MT but swamped with enemy. nothing to save for now so let's just let it rip :)

next player should be aware that there are cats available in Curia to ding the nearby enemies. we could just abandon curia, send the 2 relatively healthy army's + cats + nearby knight north into france to see if we can extract some pain.

re: sgotm4 i'd like to play but i'll be away from the 24th till oct 9th, visiting my wife's family in taiwan. no civ and probably not much internet access, though, at the pace we play, that's probably only 1 loop thru the rotation :lol: i really liked that gotm as well... indians, locked in an early struggle with the persians, with them having the only iron. had to hit them hard and early if i remember correctly. i think i lost 16cav in 1 city flip at the end of the game to babylon, last time i ever lost that many in one flip. conquest would definitely be out as there were quite a few 1 tile islands on that map. iirc, there were 3 major landmasses, with our starting landmass being fairly crappy for a 5cc.

R&L - Up
Bugs - On Deck

Well I think we're on the ropes. The next few turns will tell the tale. If Row and I can take back the iniative we might be able to pull through. If not we're toast.

I was trying to remember the GOTM28 homeland mass. IIRC, there is a river at the starting point, one north of the Mutton Valley and one south of the Mutton Valley. A 5CC would be very difficult, especially sharing the home land mass with Persia. The good thing is that you can broker techs until the late MA.

How about this... make as many units as we can... disband all our cities but, and put an army in that city... then send everyone else out to kill...

team microbe just bailed on this as well. i have a feeling they had the same stagnent front that we had 20 turns ago.

@bugs -> yes, that's right, mutton valley! that was the scene of a great archer rush during my game. god i hate those, but you gotta take out persia cause that's the only iron available on that continent, iirc. otherwise, your running around with garbage units till someone finally hooks up a second iron and you've researched nav. that's not an easy way to survive :)

@ alerum -> fall back ala the alamo? imho, not a bad idea, but instead of disbanding the cities, just keep the ones far off as long as possible for unit support, selling off improvements and abandoning them as soon as a cav comes within 3 tiles. maybe disband ones that are too close together to prevent rapid pillaging?

Looking at Microbe's scoring curve, it looks like the end came fairly quickly. I think once your cities and and infrastructure start to crumble, things go down quickly. I would try to hold onto every city we can. Everyone one of those cities represent income and unit support, not to mention production.

team microbe conceded. they didn't even play it out, as i understand from microbe's post.

Did MB set a completion date for this one yet?

I somehow remember it being about Sept 20th. If that's the case then, let's just try to hold on to as much as possible until the clock runs out. If this didn't have and end date we'd probably lose by Dip/Space before getting conquered anyway.

Ackk! I'm not ready yet! (Only thru turn 4 on DD01 due to illness & shopping for a new car). OK, got it, and will start tonight, along with a pledge not to let it finish on my watch. Let's see what we'll get.

I'm in for SGOTM4, pref the same team. I also will be out of town, 10/2-10/11, but also expected it to be only 1 turn. I too remember the game, and was able to take out Persia, but unable to finish due to time constraints (that's what's nice about SG). Perhaps we just see about setting up a city on the iron early? I know it's exploitive - if he left the iron in the same place - he probably won't.

I'm also up for a shot at DG. I'm told that my level of play counts as much higher in a SG than as a solo, so why not try. It would be fun.

EDIT: X-post. Ending with as many points as possible, and no confirmed loss suits me. Again, I'll see what I can do.

I'm planning on playing SGOTM4, if everybody is interested in playing.

This'll be the first one that I actually won on the first time around. (20K Cultural). I think I only had about 15 cities for most of the game. I never really got a chance to use the War Elephants. I got to Mutton Valley first and set up a defensive city (walls & barracks), then used my spearmen & catapults to continually chop up the Immortals before any damage could be done. I finally managed to use infantry & artillery to take over Persia and then expanded west until the game ended in 1906.

Like the rest of the team it seems, I've got a vacation in October (10/6-10/11), but with luck I won't even miss a turn.

A question: In a 5CC, how important is it that the 5 cities have continuous territory? Could we afford a slight drift SW before founding, then grab Mutton Valley, irontown, etc.? We'd obviously need a port or 2.

SGOTM4 results... so far

Wants to Play...variant
Denyd (Yes...Doesn't care)
G-man (Yes...yes)
Alerum (No, too much school)
Bede (No, but wants to play regular SG)
R&L (Yes...Yes)
Bugs (Yes... Doesn't care either)

So it looks like its four of us playing the variant. I'll PM mad-bax.

yes and yes, though i've never done a 5cc. i know bugs has but not sure about the rest. maybe we need to petition mb to give us a 5cc ringer so we can have fun with this one :)

I think the hardest part about a 5CC on this map is having to put one of those cities in Mutton Valley. There were 3 or 4 great city locations on this map on the northern half of the island, then a horizontal mountain range with a valley for a single city then a donut of good land where Xerxes lives. There are no horses and only a single iron source in the SW (where X-Man lives).

From my recollections there are 3 ways to win this.

1. Get to the iron first, then use swords to kill of X-Man
2. Get to Mutton Valley and hold him off until you get to War Elephants
3. Get to Mutton Valley and play a defensive game going for a non-military win.

Back to the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. It looks like this is going to be a let's just hold on till the bell riings kind of finish (unless we go Kamikaze on France), so we should concentrate on defensive features (cannons, muskets & walls) in all cities and keep researching to cavalry for some counterattacking units. Try to hang on to Antium at all costs. I think that's where the Heroic Epic & Pentagon are located. That'll keep our MGL's coming and let them hold 4 units each (more and stronger armies).

Since I really hate losing, one last time I'll ask if anyone is interested in dropping the variant and trying to steal a UN victory?

I wouldn't bet the farm on the map staying exactly the same as the GOTM... Just have a look at how much was changed for this one ;) M-b basically swapped the 2 continents around, then made the start look almost like it used to..

IIRC, I think it's usually allowed to drop war the last turn of AW to get diplomatic victory... But not sure how it would be counted here, with the xenophobic and all.

team microbe conceded. they didn't even play it out, as i understand from microbe's post.

Right. Two people had to leave due to RL, and we got a replacement, then rumor said scout was also struggling with the flood in Florida, so we had only 3 people left.

I don't think we were going to win anyway with such a big tech gap, but we had cavs and had been VERY slowly making progress, so we would't lose fast either. :)

All things considered we decided to give up. The good thing is that I can now post in others' threads. :)

One of the most annoying things is those mountains.

Right. Two people had to leave due to RL, and we got a replacement, then rumor said scout was also struggling with the flood in Florida, so we had only 3 people left.
I would probably have done the exact same :)

Sorry guys, but I'm going to have to sit the SGOTMs for a while. Work is to much for all the SGs I'm in... going to have to cut down to about 2.:(

Well, Alerum & Bede, I for one sincerely enjoyed gaming with both of you, and look forward to the chance to do so again in the future.

Downloading now.

I'm still gaming with those two in other SGs, so they get to see enough of my mug.... or at least my avatar.

Well, Alerum & Bede, I for one sincerely enjoyed gaming with both of you, and look forward to the chance to do so again in the future.


Likewise, R&L.

This has been a great team for a tough game.

Just so's you all understand I like to use the SOGTM to get acquainted with players I have not had the opportunity to play with before. (Besides m-b would probably break this team up anyway. ;) )

Bede03 should be starting soon and all are invited.

@Bugsy, you were my introduction to SG's and it is always a pleasure to play with you.

Bede & Alerum: It was quite fun slogging through this with you. Sorry to see you both moving on.

Bede: I'll keep my eyes open for Bede03 and hope my plate isn't too full to join.

Thanks guys. Was a supreme group of players, just had a difficult task in front of us. I'm sure I'll play games with all of you soon... And Bugsy... Could never get tired of that avatar.... that mug on the other hand.:p

Bede, let me know when you start your game... I want in.:)

OK, now that we said our good-byes, we have this little issue in front of us of finishing this game. We may be on the ropes, but no one has stuck a fork in us.

Who's up? Full push towards the front, taking out Eastern France, and working our way north west?

R&L is up and he has it. I'm next.

Looking back a history, I see we have a couple of different options:

Germany 1945 AD: Battle of the Bulge - Commit most of your resources to a single thrust in hopes of breaking out and wreaking havoc behind the front lines.

Russia 1943 AD: Operation Scorched Earth - Slow retreatiing leaving nothing of value so that the extended supply lines and elements weaken your enemy allowing a counterattack at a weak point in the lines when the time is right.

France 1940 AD: Dunkirk - We retreat to the beaches and hope some one sends boats to take us back home.

Rourke's Drift 1879 AD: Zulu - Create maximum defense available and keep killing until they go home.

Montana 1876 AD: Custer's Last Stand - We send our mounted units after all exposed ground units and hope they get back home.

Texas 1836 AD: Remember the Alamo - Pick a single point of defense and hole up in that location hoping for reinforcements.

Atlantis 9000 BC: The island is sinking - Build as many galleys as possible loading each of them up with a settler & legion and look for a single tile island to hold onto until Amphibious Warfare is discovered.

Maxia 2333 AD: Picard Manuever - We point to the right and say "Is that Elvis?" and when they all look we kick in the Warp Drive for a second and the attack them from the rear, appearing to be in two places at once.

:rotfl:

I really like the last option, but do we have Space Flight yet, and who's "Elvis"?

I didn't get to start yet, but am hoping for tonight after picking up my "new" car. I'm currently favoring a combination Zulu/Bulge approach, which is not much more than business as usual. It may quickly devolve into Russia > Alamo > Custer.

Aggree. There is no point in dragging this out. With our current game play there is no hope of winning... this will either give us a chance, or end it quickly... what happened at the Battle of the Bulge?:p

The thrust of the German forces ended up morphing to a "Custer" due to the Zulu pulled off by the American troops...

:hmm: not sure what that means? you getting confused with DD01?

The thrust of the German forces ended up morphing to a "Custer" due to the Zulu pulled off by the American troops...
wait, let me try to figure this out...

"Zulu pulled off the the Americans" = americans holding that town with infantry and troops dying trying to take it back.

"german forces ended up morphing to a custer" means we tried to break out but were annihilated.

now, how do these 2 actions relate? did you try to break-out, then reverse course and get all the "break-out" forces killed trying to take the american town?

See post #629

I think he means he attacked and most of the attacking force is now gone and he's trying to hold on.

What I think we really need to do is build a quick bridge from SGOTM3 to DD01 and import about 40 of those Panzers. The Romans & Germans were allies afterall, so it seems fair to me.

Actually, I was only answering Alerum's question about what happened at the Battle of the Bulge in RL... No hints about the game, sorry. ;)

you know, if you keep procrastinating on this, you'll be up in sgotm3 and 4 soon :joke: :lol:
good luck!

:blush::blush::blush:

Just passed DD01 after 5. Will play now. Put me at end of roster for SGOTM4.

I'm sorry guys, RL has been chock full and the best of intentions haven't gotten me there. Bugs, please swap. I'll play after you. :sad:

OK, I have it.

Good luck Bugs! Show 'em what the Roman War Machine is all about.

Something like this? :spear:

ummm... I think our spears are a bit bigger, but close.

Sorry team, I didn't get this done today. First day back to work from a week off and I didn't get a lunch break :rolleyes:

No problem Bugsy... take your time with it... slow is better here.

Here are the results from the first two turns. I think we're losing the attrition race.

Pre-flight – Ouch! We’re hurting! Time to put on the fight like a mad dog hat. Let’s hope we’re not the Yorkie against a Great Dane. I leave the sliders where they are for the time being so we can upgrade some cats.

We have some very unhappy people. Lux up 10% and MM a few cities.

IBT – Kill a Yank cav, lose a knight. Lose a legion to a French cav, kill a French cav. (2-2)

1. 1615 AD – 5th Knights kill a Yank cav. Found Aesonesium just SE of Antium to fill the gap. Kill another Yank cav. Bat about 50% with artillery. Upgrade three cats. (4-2)

IBT – Kill a yank cav with an elite knight (redlined) and get a leader. Will it last? It does, but…

@ Aesonesium – Kill a Yank cav, kill two cossocks, lose a legion, lose another legion, kill an English infantry, the last legion dies to an English infantry and the city autorazes.

Watch a French frigate attack an Aztec caravel and sink, a second French frigate finishes off the Aztecs. Nice of Joanie to help us out like that.

Lose a musket at Veii. Kill two French cavs at Augustdorum. (11-6)
Ravenna riots, scroll ahead.

2. 1620 AD – Upgrade a three more cats. Kill the Russian Cossak in our back yard. The leader forms the sixth Knight Army. Now I just need to find some knights to load in it. It gets the elite* for now. (12-6)

Take a break for now.

Looking good Bugs. I'm ready again.

I'll try to get three more played today and get the save to you.

Sounds good, I'll play SGOTM4 tonight and be waiting for this one.

I had a thought about the tech pace in this one. With everyone being at war with at least us (plus France vs Aztecs and maybe more), it's doubtful that anyone is still in Republic/Democracy. With them all being either Monarchy or Communism, the tech pace will probably be very slow with only the TOE giving any of the AI a burst of science. That being said, it's not likely that anyone will ever get the required techs for a launch and at this point we seem to be able to hold our own against the cavalry & infantry they send at us. Once we get cavalry, we'll push back a bit until they get to tanks, then it's hang on and pray time again. I don't think we'll be able to actually get a enough troops to be able to mount a long term offensive. So in all probablility, unless someone gets to the UN, this game is likely to go all the way to 2050AD unless Mad-Bax steps in with a cutoff date.

Is there any chance of building an embassy and stealing techs from the AI?

Is there any chance of building an embassy and stealing techs from the AI?
the only way to steal techs now is to build the intelligence agency and plant spies. we'll also need about 2000g per try (ie, much better infrastructure with banks and markets).

Can you plant spys without an embassy? Per the variant, we can't build embassies because we're xenophobic, and we can't declare peace to build the embassies in the first place.

IBT – Lose two legions to Bab cavalry at Augustdorum and the city falls. Lose a legion to a Bab rifle. The English land an infantry in our backyard. Kill a French LB. An undefended Bagacum falls to the French. Rome riots, scroll ahead.

3. 1625 AD – Our offensive options are severely limited. We lose three legions taking out the English Infantry in the backyard. Kill an English cav. Kill a Bab rifle. Kill a Bab rifle and a Bab LB. Most of our knights retreat. Decide we need Mil Tradition and we need it as soon as possible. I push science to 30% to get it in 18 turns. Can we survive that long? (18-12)

IBT – Watch the Japanese attack an Aztec naval task force and swap ironclads with Monty. Kill two Cossacks. Lose the 7th Knight army to two English cavs. Kill two English Infantry at Veii. More riots. (23-13)
4. 1630 AD – Things are going to hell in a hand basket. Kill a Bab LB, but our artillery (mostly cats) is just not working very well against infantry and rifles. Lose a legion to a Bab rifle. Kill a redlined English cav but lose seven HP on the 6th Knights. (25-14)

IBT – The Rampaging Iroquois destroy the Indians. Kill a Cossack at Jerusalem, our musket is redlined. Naval Bombardment continues to take a toll as we lose the baraacks at Jerusalem. Jerusalem riots over the loss of their barracks.

5. 1635 AD – Army of the North kills Bab cav. Kill a Bab cav. Lose a knight. (27-14)

After Action – At the moment I can’t give a lot of advice. Good thing a lot of the AI are fighting amongst themselves. I think if we can get to cavs we have a shot.

Save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/bugsy_SG003_AD1635_01.SAV

The Rampaging Iroquois destroy the Indians.

Well, at least we weren't the first Civ knocked out of the game...

Nice job on the holding action Bugs. Fighting momentum is hard, but at least they're not the unstoppable force yet. And yes, it is nice to see people spending effort on Monty.

R&L you're up
Denyd on deck
G-man on vacation

yes, thanks bugs :) might as well note now that i will be away from Sept 24th thru October 9th, with limited or none net access. definitely won't have civ. good luck gents!

As a heads up - I'll be gone from Oct 6-11 (for a class reunion), that shouldn't have any impact on this game as I'm likely to get my turn by next Monday and be done by Friday.

As a heads up - I'll be gone from Oct 6-11 (for a class reunion)
More data needed... High School, college? How many years? Inquiring minds want to know :D

Gunn High School in Palo Alto, CA class of 1974

It's going to be fun watching my 2 year old son playing with some of my classmates grandchildren :D

I was thinking we should probably set up a goal or two, just to keep up the moral on the team. Things like leader generation, kill ratio or number if cities.

Any thoughts?

I like that idea. How about these.

Goal #1 - Have at least a 2:1 kill ratio during your turns.

Goal #2 - Build or recapture at least one city during your set.

Goal #3 - Generate at least one leader during your turns (if possible. Obviously if you have a leader waiting for enough cities to build an army it isn't possible.)

I'll see what I can do. Got it.

It's been 4 days and almost 12 hours since the last post in this thread. Should we consider this a stalemate gentlemen?

Rather than just drop it, is anyone interested in dropping the variant and going for a Mission Impossible come from behind win?

I'd rather do as we said before, and just keep the varient and go all out on an assult, but that hasn't happened.

Sorry again for the delay. I played SGOTM4 last night, and will do 3 tonight. Friday and Saturday got busy, and the new Sunday School thing has taken away my Sunday AM playing time.

Guys... I need to publish the results for this game. I intend to post the results on Friday. The server will continue to accept saves until the 7th October and will automatically update until then. You may of course continue to play until the end.

If you violiently disagree with this, then PM me and we can discuss.

Any assaults at this point would be suicidal :suicide: . At best we've got Knights (att 4) against Infantry (def 10). That's a tank vs spearman :spear: kind of battle and as often as people complain about the spearman winning, 90% of the time he doesn't.

With this new deadline, we don't have many options.

1. Let it die
2. All out attack (good luck R & L)
3. Hunker down in the bunker and wait for the world to end
4. Check out of the variant, capture the Great Library getting Fissiona, while getting a GL and build the UN, sign MA with everyone against the Aztecs and get elected :rotfl:

:hmm: :hmm: :hmm:
I'm not a big fan of leaving a variant once I've started it. I'd like to keep this going as long as possible, although it will be recorded in SGOTM as a loss.

I like option number four the best, but to save face we should just let it die... if R&L does that our score will be even lower then it is now... as it is, we're middle of the pack and no one will notice our shame.:p

if R&L does that our score will be even lower then it is now... as it is, we're middle of the pack and no one will notice our shame.:p

No one except all of those lurkers!

I'll fight the good fight, and see if I can gain a few points, keeping to the variant. I don't intend to crash and burn, at least in the next 5 turns. We can have it time out on us.

1635 – 0
Nada

IBT: Iro’s offer peace for 49g +1gpt. They have 14 cities & many techs, only 11g.
Jerusalem falls to a Cossack, Treveri falls to Bab cavs, Neocaledonium falls to Bab cavs & razed, Mediolanum falls to French cav. Much bombardment, but little damage. 5th Knight army holds on in Antium, but 8/18.
Ravenna galley > legion in 5, Palmyra legion > legion in 5
The folks add trees to the courtyard. We catch a Japanese spy while he is being inserted.

1640 – 1
The W coast has 1 Greek galley, 3 MoW & 1 English galleon, 2 Japanes frigates, 1 ironclad, 1 caravel & 1 galley, 1 Rus galleon, 1 American galleon & 1 ironclad all headed for Cumae.
The movement rates of these AI land units seems incredible.

workers move in to Pisae,
@Sirmium, move 1 legion Corfinium & change Sirmium to worker in 1. MM for 3 gpt.
@Pisae, cats take 2 off Rus galleon, galley -0 sinks Rus galleon! :hammer:
@Veii, 3 cannons take 1 off rifle, cats take 0.
@Trapezus, cats take 1 each off 2 ironclads.
Legion from Palmyra to Byzantium. We’ve got all of 1 musket & 1 legion defending Gap, Lugdunum, Viroconium, Byzantium & Palmyra, with cavs in Mediolanum & Treveri. :sad:
@Curia, vKnight from Lauriacum kills sword, Caesar’s savages -4 killing LB, cats follow to hill. Abandon Curia.
@Lauriacum, all field engines to the Gate, legion to the Gate, Army of North to the Gate, abandon Lauriacum.
@ the Gate, cats take 3 off German sword, vLegion -3 kills sword, Army of North to Antium, vKnight from Antium, vMusket from Antium.
@Gramstand, cats go 3/6 on Bab cav to red, cats go 1/3 on rifle SoD on mountain.

This is bad. We could lose the eastern part of the core. We have no internal reinforcements, except in the far South, Pisae may not survive.

IBT: Pisae falls to Cossack – we lose 2 workers, galley & cat.
German caravel sank by Greek frigate, all Japanese ships head straight West, Trapezus 2/4 legion kills 1 Bab cav but dies to second – lose 2 cats & city razed. 2/4 vKnight @ Curia kills Bab cav & damages 2 rifles before retreat & death.

Pompeii knight > legion in 4, Corfinium musket > legion in 5, Gap cannon > cash, Tyrus legion > legion in 10, Sirmium shuts down , but recovers for worker > cash.

Notes:
- I’m prepared to sell improvements & abandon the Gap, Sirmium & possibly Gramstand,
- 1 army will raze Rheims & drive on Paris. 1 army will raze Sevastopol & drive on Paris. 1 army will drop back to the Gate. Army of North will head for Lugdunum.

ouch. Ouch Ouch OUch.

The problem isn't the French, the problem is the Babylonians. I would try and hold onto the Gap as long as possible.

I'm afraid the tide has turned and it wasn't in our favor. It's going to be tough with French and English on the west coast, Russian Cossacks, American, Babylonian & German Cavalry on the eastern/center and Aztec & Japanese landing in the southwest to defend everywhere.

We'll probably be able to fight a delaying war (ala Russia 1942) in the mountains , but it's getting closer to choosing between shipping a settler on a galley and pulling all the defenders to a single city and hoping to last until October 7th.

Do we have any cash to rush additional defenders?

Not unless they only have 2 turns left to rush to 1 turn...

The problem with retreating to a single city is that we'll start losing units because our budget has gone to zero and we won't be able to pay for anything.

Good point - We should be able to use the terrain (mountains and hills) to slow down the advance a bit, but I fear for The Gate, Veii, Antium & Rome.

We should try to hold Antium & Rome for as long as possible. They are our most powerful cities.

I don't see where we realy can afford to lose any significant blocks of land, except in the SE, now that the E is gone. I'll try to pump out what I can before dropping the cities, but if I can't get something to Lugdunum fast, then it won't matter.

I'm sorry to have to put this out after only 1 turn, but I've spent all night getting things ready for vacation, and tomorrow night will be the same (after scouts). Here is the save to go with the turn posting.

Ok, that puts Bugs up with me on deck.

I guess we should probably discuss whether it's worth playing this out to the inevitable conclusion. With just 7 days before the door closes on this one, there probably isn't time to reach any true game end unless we go suicidal.

Denyd - Up
G-man - On vacation
Alerum - On deck
Bede
Bugs
R&L - Just played

Let's keep fighting for as long as possible. We'll run out of time in 8 days, but at least we will give it our best effort.

Edit - R&L and I swapped.

OK - I got it - I can't start until tomorrow night, so if anyone has any ideas on how to save this one, you've got about 36 hours to post them.

(I suspect these could be the most painful 5 turns I've played on CIV since Rome ran over my German cities back in my first Civ 2 game in the mid-nighties)

They won't be fun. Just assume we've lost and fight like a mad dog :spear:

OK - I got it - I can't start until tomorrow night, so if anyone has any ideas on how to save this one, you've got about 36 hours to post them.

If I read it correctly, M-B has posted in the SGoTM4 maintenance thread that today is guillotine day. If that is indeed the case, and although he would like for us to play it out, I don't see much point. It may be that he meant NEXT Friday, since he posted it yeaterday, but I suspect that he meant today.

Mad-Bax: Guys... I need to publish the results for this game. I intend to post the results on Friday. The server will continue to accept saves until the 7th October and will automatically update until then. You may of course continue to play until the end.

We've got a week to pull this out :rotfl:

In the immortal words of one of the great thinkers of our time Bullwinkle the Moose

"Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat..."

Turn 0 - Our Modern Armor Armies decimate the incoming attackers and roll to victory crushing France, England, America, Bablyon, Russia and Germany...

Suddenly Denyd wakes up in a cold sweat and realizes that he's going to be playing this one tonight and shudders in fear...

All right, I came up with a couple of ideas to prolong this agony and am looking of pitfalls in these thoughts.

1. Pick a weak/corrupt city in the south (maybe SE near only Greece) and pull the troops out of the city. The AI seems to prioritize those types of targets. That would give us a couple of shots to damage them and send them home to heal before they get there. With luck we can lure the AI's troops all over the place and buy some more time.

2. Switch the citizens in those border towns all to bankers to push up the available cash.

3. Move research to 100% to get cavalry ASAP. At most we'd lose 1 unit & 1 building per turn running a deficit economy. With cavalry, we'd have a better chance to hit those units crossing our lands toward the bait and still be able to retreat to the cover of nearby cities.

I'll be starting in about 6 hours, I hope to be warned away from any no-no's before then.

(shrugs) I'm easy on the exploits. As long as it's not a bug, use it.

Turn Log 6

Turn 1 – 1645 AD – Cannons and catapults do very poorly and a couple of attacking rifles are killed with no losses

IBT: Sirmuium is lost to Bab cavalry – A catapult is disbanded due to short treasury

Turn 2 – 1650 AD – Artillery works a little better and we wound quite a few units – Kill a pair of English Cavalry who landed near Ravenna – Scrambling to keep defenders in the reachable cities but it’s tough

IBT: No cities lost – 1 Pike dies defending Continium – An English MOW sinks a Greek Galley & an American Rifle kills an English LB so at least the others are fighting over our decaying empire - a catapult is disbanded due to insufficient treasury and the barracks in Veii is lost

Turn 3 – 1655 AD – The artillery seem out of practice this turn though it did manage to red-line a bunch of Bab cavalry near the Gap and a couple infantry near The Gate– hoping everything can hold on

IBT: Only lose 1 Legion to attacks + Barracks in Cumae & 1 Catapult to no support

Turn 4 - 1660 AD – Catapults work against cavalry, but only cannons seem to be able to damage infantry – Hoping to hold on in The Gap & Lugdunum

IBT: Lose a defender in Conitumum and Army in Veii is damage by attacks but all cities hold – Lose Granary Veii & a Catapult to lack of support

Turn 5 – 1665 AD – Manage to damage a couple of rifles by the Gap and red-line a pair of English Infantry by Lutitea and a knight kills one of them

I’m not sure what to tell who’s next, we really are just holding on by our fingernails – Next turn we’ll get Military Tradition, so for want of anything else that’s the good news, I’m was moving our workers to the coast by Ravenna to build fortresses on all of the coastline terrain, just to block the terrain from new landings, that might allow our defenders in that area to move north

Best of luck to who’s next

BTW: For the heck of it after I saved the game, I made peace with everyone and got Theology, Printing Press, Education, Music Theory, The Republic, Banking, Astronomy, Military Tradition, & Economics.

Well team, it looks like the chop came a few days early. It was great playing with everyone. I learned a lot of new things in this game. Thanks.

Hi. As far as I know you can still submit your game saves to the upload page and they'll appear in the graph and on the list. If you want to call it a day I can mark your last save as a conquest defeat and close the books.

Yes: You can continue to play - and should IMO!

I think it is going to be hard to motivate the team to continue playing at this point. Over half the team was so distraught over this game they went on holiday (denyd, g-man, R&L) or threw themselves into their school work (Alerum)

The only members of the team frequenting the boards at the moment are Bede and myself.

I've set your last save to Conquest Defeat to close it out. Let me know if you do decide to play on, and I can re-open the submission system for you with no problem. Well tried, and better luck in SGOTM 4 :D

Thanks Alan.