SGOTM3 Rome - Game Thread.

Hi everyone, and welcome to your game thread.

Here is the start position.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/SGOTM3.jpg

Here are a couple of links you might find useful.

The Original GOTM16 Announcement. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/gotm16_rome.shtml)
The Draft Constitution (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=1733966&postcount=61)

This Months' sponsored variant is Xenophobic NOW
The rules are as follows.
1. Non-Oscillating War variant. You keep a list of opponents and the order in which you meet them.
2. You must declare war on the first Civ you meet before leaving the diplomacy screen for the first time.
3. You must stay at war with that Civ until one of you have been eliminated.
4. You must declare war on the second Civ you met on the same turn that the first Civ was eliminated or 20 turns has elapsed (whichever happens sooner). This is to prevent sandbagging.
5. After each opponent is eliminated or 20 turns elapse you must declare war on the next civ in the list.
6. If you run out of opponents because you haven't met them yet and 20 turns have elapsed, you must declare war on the next opponent you meet before leaving the diplomacy screen for the first time with them

The Xenophobic part of the variant runs as follows.
7. You may never own a foreign worker. You must never buy or sell one, and if you capture them they must be disbanded on the tile on which they were captured.
8. All deals must be at face value. No haggling.
9. You will not establish embassies.
10. You will never retain a town that contains foreign citizens. Such towns must be razed and any workers spawned disbanded.

Also there is a puzzle involving some non-standard Barbarian Units. The puzzle is framed in the same way as it was for the original GOTM16, but the solution is different.

The save will be available from >>HERE<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm_submission_list.php) when the timelock is released. All of your teams save files will eventually be available from this link.

When you finish your turn, you may upload your save to >>THIS<< (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm.php) link

Have fun, and good luck everyone!

Hello all and welcome to the team! We are playing PTW 1.27f patch. This will be a very hard variant and should be large fun. Mad-Bax thinks less than 50% of the variant attempts will succeed. Let’s make sure we are in the 50% that does win.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HNDY02_luckycandle.gif

Sign-in with a post below so I’ll know you have found the team thread.

Draft Play Order subject to change. We may have players I don’t know about.
1. Handy
2. coletite
3. T_McC
4. Tinkez
5. Yom

Here are the game parameters:
Civilization: Rome
Difficulty: Emperor
World size: 5000 tiles (Standard 100x100)
Landmass: Mystery - atypical - 52% Water - not Pangaea
Geology: young and rough (3 billion)
Environment: temperate, normal
Barbarians: Roaming, graphically enhanced, regionally intense**
Rivals: 11 Preset (no added bonuses)

We are playing the variant - Xenophobic Non Oscillating War

SGOTM etiquette boilerplate (blatantly plagiarized from Mad-Bax & Greebley)

Don’ts
Don’t look at other teams game threads. This is strictly forbidden, and the staff will know about it.
Don’t automate workers.
Don’t use city governors.
Don’t leave units on go-to orders that extend beyond your set of turns.
Don’t change build orders wholesale on your inherited turn without an explanation as to why you did it. If you have questions, post & get answers before you play.
Don't leave significant units (like leaders) fortified. Other problems are things like workers fortified in town, boats fortified, etc. Since we will be at war, use the “Y” key to place units on sentry. If AI units approach the sentry, the unit automatically wakes up, alerting you to the AI’s presence. This is very important when at war so you notice AI sneak attacks away from the front lines.
Don't ruin our reputation by breaking trades without team permission. This is a not likely in this variant.

DOs
Do read Narcissistic Nehru (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=73278) if you have not played a war variant like we are attempting in this game.
DO make sure you use PTW patch 1.27f.
DO be polite and constructive on you comments on game play. (if your sentence starts: "Who was the idiot that ... ", or “WTF…”; its a bad sign). :lol:
DO ask for a “skip” if real Life (RL) gets in the way of playing. Ask to be skipped, or play your turns on time. Please don't just go missing in action.
DO finish all your turns and upload the game saved at the END of the last turn. The upload link is in my signature.
DO follow the GOTM Rules (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/gen/rules2.shtml).
DO include the turn number and the in-game date for each turn in your log. Note: the game begins with 4000 BC as turn zero, 3950 is turn 1, etc.
DO include reasons you made wholesale changes to city build orders (definitely called for in certain circumstances – like war. Just supply a good reason for your decision in the log. The other players may learn something new.
DO include a “NOTES” summary at the end of the turn log that communicates your intentions. (Where is that galley going? Where did the AI attack? What should the next player try to accomplish.)
DO read any previous discussion and the previous players turn. (Hopefully the previous player summarized very important parts in the final notes). This will avoid having good plans started by one player being ignored by the next.
DO check F1 each turn to make sure cities will not riot next turn.
DO stop in the middle of your turns, post a save and ask for the team’s opinion if you are unsure what to do. Post a save if you want some help. If something comes up during your turn which is a difficult decision, then it is completely appropriate to stop playing so a discussion can occur on the best path to follow.
DO ask players why they did something you don't understand. That's how you learn & get better.
Do feel free to explain in your post why you did something. Also feel free to ask players to comment on your decisions. Such as, I'm not sure if I should do X or Y, I chose X because of ___, was this okay?
DO forgive Handy for his typos and avoid commenting on his obnoxious habit of renaming cities.
Do make it a priority to saddle T_McC with all anarchy turns in the game. :lol:

I’ll try to begin play Tuesday night, so you have 24 hours to post opening play comments.

Hello team!

I wasn't planning on doing the varient (have never even attempted Emporer) but the team assignments were already posted before I could ask MB to put me in another team. After reading Handy's post, I'm inspired to give it a shot.

I'm still learning to play well on Monarchy, just to let everyone know.

Looking forward to hearing what everyone's ideas for the varient strategy will be.

Let's hope for a noncorrupted save!!!

Hello team!

I wasn't planning on doing the varient (have never even attempted Emporer) but the team assignments were already posted before I could ask MB to put me in another team. After reading Handy's post, I'm inspired to give it a shot.

I'm still learning to play well on Monarchy, just to let everyone know.

Looking forward to hearing what everyone's ideas for the varient strategy will be.

Let's hope for a noncorrupted save!!!

Glad to have you coletite. If you want to switch to a non variant team I think Mad-Bax would allow it since we have not played yet, but I'd encourage you to gove it a shot. We've got a strong team, and will give you lots of specific instructions if you like, so I think you'll be okay. :D

I recommend you browse some of the Always War links in my signature for ideas. In particular, look @ T_McC01. That game was always war ultra-xenophobic.

Yes... Gird your loins coletite. You will have a lot of fun. Trust me :rolleyes:

Ok, I'm game.

Since it sounds like we'll be fighting a lot, I like the starting location. We have access to wine and game, 5 BG tiles, and a good number of hills for production. Plus, being on the hill, our capitol will have a defense bonus. Nice in case we have an expansionist neighbor and make early contact. I will take a look at the save when I get home and look at the mini-map.

Since we will be unable to capture workers, Rome is a good civ. The industrious trait will make our workers more effective.

[edit] You know, I've read through some AW games and it seems like a common strategy is to keep exploration to a minimum so as to try and hold off on contact with other civs. Will we want to follow the same strategy?

I'm here.

Don't worry about the variant. Whatever mistakes people make, I'll just assume it's Handy's fault. He's old enough to know better. I can see Handy has already slotted himself in just ahead of me, to make me clean up his messes.

Let's talk a lot. Well-reasoned, meticulous, horrible plans are better than no plan at all. :)

First thing: Rome is Commercial and Militaristic, not Industrious. That was a typo in the Civ III vanilla manual. (Unless they've been modded for this game.) Cheap Barracks and Walls, lower corruption. We should start with Warrior Code and Alphabet. Pottery should be an early research target, and as Coletite mentioned, limited exploration would be wise. We should settle as though this is an AW game.

Since this is PtW, military great leaders can rush Great Wonders. Exceptionally limited trade opportunities make the Great Library a significant target. The other uber-wonder will be the Pyramids and Sun Tzu's. The Great Wall would be interesting, if not as useful as in Conquests. No embassies means no MA's vs anyone, so that sneaky trick is out. The other great use we'll have for an MGL is an early, well-placed FP.

Should be interesting.

First criticism of Handy. :lol:

Do we want yourself, Yom and I all in a row? I'm not familiar with Tinkez, we may want to break up the 2 non-AW players. (How about you, coletite, me, tinkez, yom?)

Oh, and is there some sort of anal-retentive rule like only 1 person can download a save? Or can we all look at it between turns?

Checking in.

I think we should found on the starting spot as well. With just 20-turns to destroy a civ we'll be at war with the world almost as fast as we can contact them, so it'll be very similar to AW, just a little less harsh with no faraway opponents sending units.

I was sort of confused by Handy's roster too. It would probably be better if we separated Coletite and Tinkez's turns.

Forgot to post the "Fart Luck" candle.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/HNDY02_luckycandle.gif

We can all download the save & comment between each player's turns. Last game we had a new player stop during his turns to ask for direction, and then continue. I'll confirm with Mad-Bax this is still ok. I think it is still allowed.

As far as the order goes, that's not set, so we can kick around ideas to get what we think is the best possible order. We'll want to sandwich coletite between 2 experienced players. Not sure if Tinkez has played an always war game (he can post & tell us) but I'm pretty sure he said in SGOTM2 that he beats Emperor regularly.

How about you (handy), coletite, me(T_McC), Tinkez, Yom?)

The above looks okay, or perhaps switch coletite to 4th and Tinkez to 2nd. Not sure where to place coletite, but I'm glad he decided to stick around. :D Being 4th he could find himself in a dogfight for survival with 2 spears against an archer 8-pack. Honest opinions are welcome.

I won’t play until tomorrow. By then we’ll have a mini-map, which may tell us what our odds of a 2-front war are.

I agree we basically approach this as an always war game. Given the xenophobic variant, it’s perhaps harder than straight AWE. I’m lighting a lucky candle for the pyramids off an early defensive elite win.

Couple of discussion questions:
#1 Do we go for pottery first over bronze working? Reading the variant rules again, we must declare on the first Civ immediately. We get a 20-turn breather for each of the remaining Civs assuming we are already at war with someone. Early war with no spears would be a bummer. F10 will tell us who we are playing, and help us guess our chances for an early first contact trade for the 3 techs we really want - masonry, BW and pottery.

#2 If we delay contact too long we may have no trade opportunities with our first victim before we declare. After the first victim scouting should be scaled back, but until then we need to at least find out where the likely iron resources are. Archer rush for Iron on emperor is a bummer, and since we can’t build Zeus in PTW, Iron (or at least horses) is vital to our survival.

Then of course we’ll need math for cats, and Lit for the GL, and currency since our economy will suck, and …

Put me wherever you want. I played with Handy and Tinkez in SGOTM2, so they are fairly knowledgeable about my abilities (or lack thereof).

Are we going for a quick domination win? I assume since we will be at war a lot, that would be the best bet.

#1. Not sure. On the surface, bronze working seams like the best choice, but it all depends on how close we are to the nearest neighbor. What about starting with pottery while keeping exploration limited to finding the first few city sites, then ramping up exploration once we start on bronze working? Just brainstorming.

#2. Guess I answered this in #1.

Checking in.

I normally beat Emperor, as Handy remembered. However, this will be my first AW game, but I've been lurking on several AW games ;) Currently I'm playing on Jumpmasters 1A - No research variant C3C 1.22 Emperor.

I trust this game will be great, I'm looking forward to this! :cool:

I give my vote on settling on the spot, we'll have the river, many BG's and the wines. Worker I would move west. About the research : As I haven't been playing AW-games, I would take it safely and go for BW. I trust our first contact will have pottery which we can grab before declaring war. :D

I also have an announcement to make for the team : I will be traveling from work for 11 days, starting next Saturday(17/07). I will have Internet connection whenever I'm staying at one place, but there might be a few days when I'm out of reach. Please feel free to skip me if I've been quiet for a while and my turns are up.

Oh, and is there some sort of anal-retentive rule like only 1 person can download a save? Or can we all look at it between turns?

The only restriction in this respect is that each player must play his own turns. If things get a little difficult you are not allowed to skip less experienced players. Stopping to ask advice midway through turns is permitted and part of normal SG play. It's not a problem.

Do we want yourself, Yom and I all in a row? I'm not familiar with Tinkez, we may want to break up the 2 non-AW players. (How about you, coletite, me, tinkez, yom?)


I think T_McC's suggestion is good, let's let Handy to start and have the roster like this:

Handy => UP!
Coletite
T_McC
Tinkez => I might have to be skipped if it takes a long time to start the game (because of my trip)
Yom

One thing that popped my mind worth mentioning. It's quite obvious, but I say it anyway:

If such situation occurs that we are about to eliminate a civ before 20 turns are up and we still haven't declared on all of the remaining contacted civs, we might want to postpone the elimination of the first civ in order to reduce the number of opponents and build up our military there between. This will ease our war preparations and allow easier troop movement before declaring and giving us an edge on the first fights when we can choose the ground.

Just to share my thoughts and maybe get some discussion :D

If such situation occurs that we are about to eliminate a civ before 20 turns are up and we still haven't declared on all of the remaining contacted civs, we might want to postpone the elimination of the first civ in order to reduce the number of opponents and build up our military there between. This will ease our war preparations and allow easier troop movement before declaring and giving us an edge on the first fights when we can choose the ground.


Good idea. I think We will want to postpone war as long as possible.

I should be able to get us started tonight.

I'll settle on the spot. Hill on a river with lux & game (after expansion). My inclination is to road & mine the BG to the NE, then road the wines. After expansion we can work the game which will act like a mined BG, so mining another BG before we hook up the wines can wait. Looks like we may only have 1 forest tile to chop inside Rome's 21 unless there are others under the fog.

Build 2 or 3 warriors & from there see what our build options are.

Looks like the concensus for the order is:

Handy
coletite
T_McC
Tinkez
Yom

Has anyone looked at the save to see what our chances of trading for pottery are?

10. You will never retain a town that contains foreign citizens. Such towns must be razed and any workers spawned disbanded.

Does this mean that we can sell existing buildings from a captured town before disbanding the town? In the game thread there was indication that you can check wheter or not the town has foreign citizens or not. This would allow us to get money from their buildings before disbanding.



Also there is a puzzle involving some non-standard Barbarian Units. The puzzle is framed in the same way as it was for the original GOTM16, but the solution is different.


Did anyone from our team play the original GOTM16? What was this puzzle there?

We'll definitely want to chop and irrigate the Game forest. That will take us to +4 food and allow for settlers every 6 turns (with a Granary, and a military unit between each settler).

Agreed that should a situation arise where it is possible, we should delay a war declaration. These rules allow us to make a gpt or lux deal when we meet a civ and we're not already involved in a war.

These rules allow us to make a gpt or lux deal when we meet a civ and we're not already involved in a war.

EDIT See next post for the answer.

Agree on chopping & irrigating bambi.

Does this mean that we can sell existing buildings from a captured town before disbanding the town? In the game thread there was indication that you can check wheter or not the town has foreign citizens or not. This would allow us to get money from their buildings before disbanding.

See next post

Questions & Answers

Question 1
Also - Are we correct in assuming we can agree to gpt deals as long as we will not be required to break the gpt deal during the next 20 turns? In other words, can I pay Civ X 5gpt since I don't have to declare war on them for 30 more turns because Civ Y is next in line with a declaration due in 10 turns?

Answer 1
If you say to a civ "what do you want for steam?" and they reply "Democracy +127g + 55gpt +WM". Then you can accept it and declare war befor leaving the trade screen if you like. Your rep is yours to do as you wish with.

Question 2
Does this mean that we can sell existing buildings from a captured town before disbanding the town? In the game thread there was indication that you can check wheter or not the town has foreign citizens or not. This would allow us to get money from their buildings before disbanding.

Answer 2
As for disbanding towns. No you can't do what you ask. The idea is this... When you kill the last defender in a city, you get the choice of keeping the city, or razing it. You must always raze it. The exception is if the city was originally built by you. In this case you are allowed to see if there are any foreigners in the city. If there are you raze it, if not then you may keep it. No selling buildings.

And we're off...
Victim list
Greece
France
England
Babylon
Russia
Germany
Aztecs
Iroquois
India
Japan
America

At war?!? Already?!? And no trades First?!?
Well, these 20 were a hall of fame set of turns. :rolleyes:


Victim list:
1 Greece Scientific Commercial BW Alphabet
2 France Industrious Commercial Masonry Alphabet
3 England Expansionist Commercial Pottery Alphabet
4 Babylon Scientific Religious BW CB
5 Russia Scientific Expansionist BW Pottery
6 German Scientific Militaristic BW WC
7 Aztecs Religious Militaristic CB WC
8 Iroquois Expansionist Militaristic CB Pottery
9 India Religious Commercial CB Alphabet
10 Japan Religious Militaristic CB Wheel
11 America Industrious Expansionist Pottery Masonry
US Rome Commercial Militaristic Alphabet WC

Eleven Civs on a standards map in basically and AWEX game. Wow.
Hopefully we can trade WC for something.
Here are our research options at this point:
BW in 23 @ 0gpt
Masonry in 30 @ 0gpt
Pots in 15 @ 0gpt
Wheel in 30 @ 0gpt
CB in 15 @ 0 gpt
Researching pottery may get us a decent trade, but that would be a bit of a gambit. If someone walks up early, we’ll want spears (especially if the Iroquois are nearby).
The same money bet is to research BW under the “first make sure you won’t lose” style of play.

I’d rather have spears than walls since we are on a hill. I think BW and hope to trade for pots or masonry on contact. Mini map shows us in the SW corner. We should be able to safely settle to the southwest. I suggest we explore a little North so we’ll have an idea where the Iron is.

Since we get a 20-turn breather, exploring is not quite so scary.
Even if we meet 2 Civs on my turns, we won’t be at war with both for 20 turns.

Turn 0 4000 BC
Found on the spot.
Worker moves W to mine the river tile for the extra gold it will bring us.

Turn 1 3950
Begin 6 turn mine

Turn 2 3900
Turn 3 3850
Turn 4 3800
Turn 5 3750
Warrior moves onto wine hill.
He sees wheat to the east.
Going to explore the hills counterclockwise

Turn 6 3700
Turn 7 3650
Mine done. Start a road

Turn 8 3600
Turn 9 3550
Second warrior takes a peek from the hill to the S. He goes back home for MP since we grow next turn. Plenty of rivers so far.

Turn 10 3500
Rome hits size 2. Working the game & mined BG for 5spt. Heading over to road the wines.
Turn science to 100% for BW in 9.

Turn 11 3450
Turn 12 3400
Third warrior sets off to explore.
We start a barracks

Turn 13 3350
Turn 14 3300
Turn 15 3250
Turn 16 3200
Rome - Barracks - archer
Turn down research to 90%. Still get BW in 3 @ 0GPT

Turn 17 3150
Wines done, move off to mine BG

Turn 18 3100
Slider to 50% BW in 1 turn.
Turn 19 3050
BW – pottery in 12. That will go down as we build archers.

Turn 20 3000
Greece shows up on the mountains to the SE. I guess they have the exact same techs we do since no trades possible. :sad: They have 2 cities.
Declare war & upload the save.
At least we won’t have to fight a war without spears.

Notes / discussion points:
1. Do we switch research to IW? While the Greeks don’t have a great attack UU, their UU is pike level tough on defense. So, do we switch to IW now so we can see the Iron? It will be much easier to settle the iron than to take it away from the Greeks. Hoplites on a hill would be tough to get rid of.
2. Do we quit exploring except for the safe SW areas of the mini map?
3. When do we commit to a granary build?
4. Should we build 2 spears and then a granary?
5. We need at least 1 spear parked on the wines so the AI won’t pillage.
6. Where does the next town go? We need a dot map from T_McC. Lucky for us we have lots of hills that are 3 moves from Rome for a CxxCxxC build pattern


SAVE (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/handy_SG003_BC3000_01.SAV)

Maps and Pictures to follow.

3000 BC
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/ROME3000bc.JPG

mini map
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/mini3000bc.JPG

Greece
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Greece_3000bc.JPG

1. Handy
2. coletite <- UP
3. T_McC
4. Tinkez
5. Yom

Good opening Handy!

1) My vote is we stay on the pottery track. Rome sitting on a hill with spears should be able to repel greek attacks so that we can get our settlers going quickly (the 6 turn factory, alternating with spears will be a good setup for this game.) Of course, the downside is the delay in finding the iron.

2) Alternately, if we switch to IW and continue exploring, we are likely to run into Russia or England soon and then could buy/trade for pottery.

3 & 4) 2 spears then granary. Defense then growth. (By the way, what kind of offensive from Greece can we expect over the next few turns?)

BTW- I'd like to wait a little while (24 hours?) to play my turns so that I can benefit from some discussion, but if we would prefer I just jump in, I can do that.

1. Do we switch research to IW? While the Greeks don’t have a great attack UU, their UU is pike level tough on defense. So, do we switch to IW now so we can see the Iron? It will be much easier to settle the iron than to take it away from the Greeks. Hoplites on a hill would be tough to get rid of.

I agree that we should target on finding a city on the iron. This will take time as first we have to survive the initial archers from Greece and in there between research the Iron Working.

2. Do we quit exploring except for the safe SW areas of the mini map?

I think we could take a peek towards Greece to know where their cities are. Of course hold our thumbs up that no other civs appear. If someone does appear, then we have to take advantage of the next 20 turns of possible trading.

3. When do we commit to a granary build?

Granary should be built asap after we have one or two archers and spear or two for defence in Rome. In my opinion we should get a second city very soon as the initial assault from Greece will take some time and now we should take calculated risks to secure our position. With two cities we could have the second one producing more units and concentrate for settlers in Rome. Use a prebuild for the granary if the research does not finish by the time the spears are built in Rome.

4. Should we build 2 spears and then a granary?

That sounds like a plan to me. Just make sure we chop the forest during the granary build.

5. We need at least 1 spear parked on the wines so the AI won’t pillage.

Yep, the second spear should park there and then archer and spear should defend Rome.

(By the way, what kind of offensive from Greece can we expect over the next few turns?)

BTW- I'd like to wait a little while (24 hours?) to play my turns so that I can benefit from some discussion, but if we would prefer I just jump in, I can do that.

Feel free to wait until everyone chimes in. We do not have much room for error in this game. T_McC always has good input. :scan:

You'll get archers & warriors from Greece in an attack on attack Rome. With any luck we will get an elite spear victory and a leader for the Pyramids. :D
If Greece is smart, they will send hoplites to pillage our roads. We really don't have an effective way to kill hoplites, we'll just have to protect the tiles we don't want Greece to pillage.

In war games it's more profitable to play on defnese where you get bonuses in the beginning. The terrain is not the best for us. There are a lot of hills for Greece to attack us from.

So far, 2 spears and then chop the game tile for the granary (after that irrigate it) seems to be the plan. We'll be settleing and defending for a good while.

Agreed we have to play defense for the beginning. I can't see us building a settler in the next 10 turns, so no need for a dotmap yet.

I would not explore any further north right now, but would keep poking around SW and S. I'm not at all worried about what Greece can attack us with, let them burn their starting Warriors and the inevitable regular Archers that the AI will build. We'll go on the offensive against them when we have either a sufficient stack of Catapults or Knights, whichever comes first. :p

This is a decent looking start if we can settle SW in peace. Ideally we'll find bonus food down there so we can get a 2nd source of settlers. We cannot neglect growing our empire, the tipping point in this game won't come with Legions, it will come somewhere between Knights and Cavs. If we can get there first or biggest, we win. I think our initial goal should be to establish the Greek front 1 ring out from Rome. [2 Rings is better, but harder to have those cities building their own defenses.] Get our Capital out from under siege, hold the line, and settle behind it.

I think we want to prioritze Math as a research target, even over IW. How do we attack Hoplites? By tossing rocks on their heads until they are red-lined. :)

I may have to be swapped on the first round, I'm having some Civ-computer problems.

So what did we decide on research?

So what did we decide on research?

Stick with pottery so we can build a granary.
In Rome build spear, spear, then a granary. You may have to start building a third spear, then switch to granary after you get pottery.

After you finish mining & roading the bonus grass the worker is on, send him to chop the forest to help speed up the granary. You are unlikely to see any units from Greece for at leat 5 turns since they are so far away. I think you know this already, but always mine first, road second.

Contine to explore the dark areas to the SW.

Good Luck :thumbsup:

After Pottery we'll have to decide on Math or IW. We need both. I think perhaps I slightly favor IW so we can build UU's that defend @ 3 over math which we need to build to cats. The of course we need Lit for the GLib, or we'll really be in trouble. We are going to have a wide front to defend, and cats will be a must.

I'll leave it to T_McC to backsolve & identify the year we need to begin a Glib prebuild. :D

Ok, will play in roughly 4 hours. I will check the discussion just before I play in case anybody has any last minute commands... I mean advice. :lol:

We'll start a Great Library pre-build the turn after we pop a Great Leader. :) PTW, remember?

Pottery and then Masonry would be the way I would play it. Building on Hills and having 10-shield Walls is a good thing.

Pre-Flight

Not much to check… hitting enter.

IBT

---

2950 BC (1)

Exploring…

IBT

A Hoplite appears to moving toward Rome

2900 BC (2)

Exploring….

IBT

---

2850 BC (3)

Found spices W of Rome

IBT

Rome spear-spear

2800 BC (4)

Worker roads BG
Spear forts on Wine
More exploring

IBT

---

2750 BC (5)

Explore…

IBT

3 Greek Warriors appear on Mountain SE of Rome

2710 BC (6)

Were losing 1 GPT, dropped science to 60% (No change in research time)
Explore…

IBT

Greek warriors move to hill 1SE of wines (with a forted spear)
Worker finishes road

2670 BC (7)

Worker moves to game
Explore…

IBT

Rome spear-spear (prebuild for granary)
Greek warriors move to hill 1SE of Rome

2630 BC (8)

Archer sentry (don’t want to attack units on a hill)
Warrior sentry
Spear forts
Worker begins to clear forest (will keep an eye out on those greek warriors to prevent a worker casualty)
Explore…

We’re losing 1 gpt, but only 2 turns until pottery

IBT

We got an elite spear from the greek warriors!
Palace got some grass

2590 BC (9)

Drop science to 50% (breaking even, pottery in 1 turn)
Explore…

IBT

Learned pottery
Switched science to Masonry (per T_McC). Best we could do without losing money was 50% which was 30 turns. I dropped it down to 10% to get some cash flow.

2950 BC (10)

Rome switches to granarium
Explore…

Sounds pretty good. Couple of comments.

Found spices W of Rome

Did you build a settler in lieu of the spear-spear-granary order? :confused:

I dropped it down to 10% to get some cash flow.

This is a good discussion point for the team. Always War (which is kinda what we are playing) is a self research game. The option to trade here is a little bit of a twist, but I still think we are going to wind up doing all our own research, so I'd turn it back if we can get techs faster.

We'll start a Great Library pre-build the turn after we pop a Great Leader. :) PTW, remember?


Err, ugh, I was just testing you, yeah that's it :mischief:

T_McC, you are up, are you still having PC problems?

Which do you plan to go after masonry?

1. Handy
2. coletite
3. T_McC UP
4. Tinkez
5. Yom

Remember - check F1 each turn. No Riots!

Yeah, I'll play it tonight. So got it.

I was thinking about researching Math after Masonry. I like Cats, and I want to delay our GA as long as possible. Until the Greeks (or some other AI) shows up with better than Archers we can easily defend with Spears and walls. A 3-4 city GA in Despotism doesn't sound like much fun. :(

Sorry, my mistake: I meant I discovered spices. I only built 2 spears then started the granary.

The reason I dropped research to 10% was because the best we could do was 30 turns, but it was on my final turn, so T McC can change it back.

Sorry, my mistake: I meant I discovered spices. I only built 2 spears then started the granary.

The reason I dropped research to 10% was because the best we could do was 30 turns, but it was on my final turn, so T McC can change it back.

Okay :D Good job. We have some pretty good lands to work with, but we have a long open front to defend ala the T_McC01 game. On the bright side we have lots of hills and can build cheap walls. Our headache will be if hoplites begin a pillage rampage. Cats & horses would help alot. Let's hope we can do a trade for the wheel to see the horses.

SGOTM3 - Drunk like Slinger!

2550 BC (0)
All seems good. No signs of the Greeks.

2510 AD (1)
Explore a little more. Shocked at how long it takes to hack down a forest.

2470 BC (2)
Masonry in 23 at break-even.

2430 BC (3)
Nothing.

2390 BC (4)
Granary completes, Roma to Spear.

2350 BC (5)
Start to beat a retreat due to sighting of Hoplite. Appears from the East, not SE.

2310 BC (6)
Spear completes, Roma to Settler. Hoplite retreats

...

2150 BC (10)
Settler and growth due in 3. The Greeks have founded Thermopylae to the SE.

Final Notes:
I guess we need a dotmap now. That will follow.

Our South is fully explored. I've sent two regular Warriors E to look at the Greek cities and scare their workers into not improving tiles. We really need a second city.



The Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/handy_SG003_BC2150_01.SAV)

Not real happy with this one. Lots of weird terrain that was obviously hand-edited (rivers aren't flowing properly). Someone else should also take a whack at this. We may be able to build 2 settlers in the next ten turns.

I like this one better. Follow the pink dots.

I'll be away on a trip starting tomorrow, 7/16, and won't be back until 7/23 or later. Since I'm not exactly sure how long the trip will last, I'll let you know when I'm back. I won't have computer access most of the time, so I won't be able to take part in a lot of the discussion.

@T_McC: The Pink dots definitely look better, but maybe there should be another pink dot 3 N of Rome to get the game and another 3 NE of Rome to fill out the first ring.

Nice :D

It looks safer to settle SW, especially the hills. Much as I'd like some protection for Rome, until we get some ponies & cats the E pink dots will have a crappy kill ratio.

I think I'd go NW, W, SW pink dots in that order. If the red dot almost directly S of Rome on the hill is river tile, I'd settle that over the pink on the flat river tile. If the S red dot hill is not a river, lets take the S pink dot.

After we get three of these down we can see what the situtation looks like.

Handy
coletite
T_McC - just played
Tinkez <- up
Yom - leaving town, no PC access :(

Got it!

I try to play tonight as I'm leaving tomorrow for the work trip. Report due in ~12hours.

So ... any progress?

Tinkez - are you going to be able to play this round or do you need a skip?

Sorry guys, had to work more than expected prior the trip.

Anyway, I've arrived to my destination, and I will play druing this day. That's a promise ;)

Damn.

Forgot the CD. I can't play. Skip me. :(

Yom is out 7/16, and won't be back until 7/23 or later, so I got it. :)

IBT


Turn 1 2110bc
Two warriors head east to harass Greece, the other moves towards Rome to act as MP.
Settler in 2 grow in 2.

Turn 2 2070
Irrigation done. Have to bump lux for a turn.

IBT
Rome – settler – spear

Turn 3 2030
Drop lux to zero.

Turn 4 1990
:mad: Greek archer kills warrior fortified on Mountain.

Turn 5 1950
Veii founded – Barracks.
Research is back up to 80% to get masonry in 6.
Rome grows, so lux bumped to 20%

Turn 6 1910

Turn 7 1870
A stack of archers is following our remaining warrior.

Turn 8 1830
Warrior bites the dust, taking a Greek archer with him.
Rome grows sliders go to 70/20

Turn 9 1790
:sleep:

IBT
Rome – settler - spear

Turn 10 1750
Settler moves to the hill W of Rome along with a spear. Settle there.
Slider to 80/0 and masonry comes in on the IBT
I’m thinking Math for the next research, although Wheel is an option to consider.

Notes:
Greece has the Wheel & CB, but does not have Pottery.
They have incense, and 3 cities.
Our military is weak compared to them.

Coletite – Check F1 each turn to see if you need to adjust the sliders. You will need to move lux as Rome grows. (next turn) We can’t afford a lose turn due to a riot.
Rome will build the current spear in 3 since the mine will complete in 2 turns and Rome grows next turn. (6+7+8=21)
Found on the hill where the settler is.
Builds – my $.02.
Rome – Switch the spear to walls after masonry comes in. After walls build a settler, then back to the spear/settler rotation.
Veii - After you complete the barracks in Veii build a spear, then worker, then walls.
New city – barracks.

You may see some archers on your 10 turns. Make sure the worker is safe.

Picture follows.

Save 1750 BC (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/handy_SG003_BC1750_01.SAV)

1750 bc

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM3_1750.JPG

Handy
coletite <- UP
T_McC
Tinkez <- out of town
Yom <- out of town 7/16 - 7/23

I'll be gone Tuesday & Wednseday (7/20 - 7/21)

T_McC - will you run the game :whipped: while I'm gone?

Ok, will play tomorrow.

Ok, I'm gonna need a pass. My computer <sniff> is sick. :cry:

Hopefully it will get better by the end of the week, but I don't want to hold up the game.

Alrighty, I'll play. Then we'll see who's available.

SGOTM3 - Tag Team!

1750 BC (0)
You, it seems like I just played this game ...

Swap tiles at Veii, gain a buck. The western dot map is a mess, but I'll stick to it. Will plop settler down on next turn.

OK, when I get the leader, I'll rush the Pyramids. :)

IT - Masonry comes in, set for Math in 24. :cringe:

1725 BC (1)
Found Antium, start on Barracks. Will want to slip some workers in here where we can.

Math drops to 19 turns.

1700 BC (2)
Where are the Greeks?

1675 BC (3)
Speak of the devil! Pair of Archers, no real threat.

Roma: Spear --> Settler. More bigger now.

Swap tiles around a bit.

1650 BC (4)
Roma grows, lux tax to 20%. Swap tiles back.

1625 BC (5)
Greeks don't attack. May be chasing the worker.

Veii: Barracks --> Archer. Next build should be worker.

1600 BC (6)
We win twice on defense. Should have moved the Elite Spear into the city.

Antium can use the irrigated game every third turn. I think that cuts 2 turns off the growth curve for the city.

1575 BC (7)
Roma: Settler --> Settler?

1550 BC (8)
Movin'

1525 BC (9)
We have our 2nd opponent: England. On the 9th turn of the 2nd player hence, we must declare war on England.

I eschew the opportunity to pay 12 gold for a TM swap. I don't really care where they are, and we'll have a shot to buy a WM from someone. Plus I don't want to give away any turns on Math research.

Found Cumae. Starts on Walls, to be followed by a worker. This is a back-line city.

Swap tiles between Roma and Antium again.

1500 BC (10)
Roma back to size 6, lux back to 30%.

Final Notes:
Since Roma builds a settler next turn, I allow Antium to keep the Game tile. After the Settler completes give it back to Roma, and remember to swap the tile on the growth turn for Roma.

A Spear from Roma can walk with the settler. Pull a Spear out of Veii to replace the lost Roman garrison, a replacement will complete on the next turn.

Do push workers on the next round. Veii, Antium, and Cumae can all pop one out as their next build after the current projects complete.

Tactical Note: I have no idea what the rules are on this game. I am assuming we can play "Tactless" and wait for the AI to come to us, we don't have to try to contact them. Remember, in PTW contact trading is with Writing. We know two civs already and can expect some more visitors soon. No need to open the F4 screen. In the screenshot to come, you'll notice a pale blue Scout. I just ignored him. He'll talk to us on his time, not ours.

We can either go for IW after Math and push the offense against the Greeks, or continue to expand in peace. We still have plenty of room and an 8CC despotic GA is better than a 5CC despotic GA. We aren't close to a gov't swap yet.

Grab the Game! (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/handy_SG003_BC1500_01.SAV)

Here's another Dotmap. Red are high priority (western dot is on top of spices), Blue can wait.

Not going to bother with a roster, next one who can claim the game should. Be sure to post an "I got it" when you claim the game.

An update on my situation: I need to upgrade some components on my computer and I'm not sure how soon I can do it. Hopefully it will all be done by middle of next week. Go ahead and keep skipping me as needed. I'll continue to follow along while I'm at work.

Handy
coletite [ PC Problems :( ]
T_McC
Tinkez <- UP
Yom <- out of town 7/16 - 7/23

I'm still out travelling on business and won't be back until 29th. Auto-skip me until that as I don't have the play disc with me.... :mad:

I'm still out travelling on business and won't be back until 29th. Auto-skip me until that as I don't have the play disc with me.... :mad:

I guess I'm up then. T_McC, this is turning into a 2 man game. :lol:

Handy
coletite [ PC Problems ] :sad:
T_McC
Tinkez <- out on business until 7/29
Yom <- out of town 7/16 - 7/23

EDIT I got it.

The peaceful Romans

Let’s see, when do we need to declare on everyone?
England gets it on the 9th turn of the next player (not me). AW is a lot easier.
While I’m being grumpy, I wish a barracks was called a barracks. :(
No other contacts per T_McC. We’ll let them find us I guess.

IBT
Rome – settler – spear
Swap game tile back to Rome
Let’s go get the spices.

Turn 1 1475
Settler & spear leave Rome for Spice City.
Spear from Veii will replace the roman spear as T suggested.
Moenia are walls I guess. :rolleyes:
1 worker for 4 cities. We do need a round of workers.

IBT
Antium – rax – worker

Turn 2 1450
Rome needs the game to grow next turn, so it keeps it.

Turn 3 1425
Rome lends BGs to Antium for a turn. Still get the spear on the IBT.

IBT
Rome – spear - settler
Cumae – worker – rax
Babylon starts oracle

Turn 4 1400
Rome gets the BG’s back
English start the Glib

Turn 5 1375
Spice City founded on the Spices& set to worker who can chop walls & barracks from all the nearby forest.
Rome & Antium do the game tile switch.

IBT
Veii – worker – spear
Antium – worker - archer

Turn 6 1350
Lone regular archer from Greece shows up. Are they at war with someone else?

Turn 7 1325
Rome gives up the BG for a turn since the settler can complete without them.
Antium gets the BG for a turn.
math in 4 @ 0gpt. 7 in bank.

Turn 8 1300
Now can see 2 regular Greek Archers.
Elite Spear moves inside Rome in hopes of the Pyramids.
Settler & spear move off towards the red dot next to the cow.
Rome gets BGs back from Antium. Antium gets game from Rome for 1 turn

IBT
France settles a city very close to us, NW of Rome.
Babylon starts the Glib
Germany starts the Glib

Turn 9 1275
Greeks get into place
Rome & Antium switch back their tiles.
Cumae borrows a BG from Rome. Rome still builds its spear in 3 and grows in 3.
Rome does not have walls yet. I’ll switch. Too late for this round of attacks though.

IBT
Crazy Greeks attack the Archer & Warrior fortified on the Hills. I pulled the spears into Rome just to be on the safe side. We win both battles.
French start the Glib
Rome – walls - spear

Turn 10 1250
More Greek Archers on the way, but we’ll build spears before they get there.
Walls should help the spears a lot. I thought we already had walls in Rome, or I would have built them sooner.
Math is due in 1 turn. We can get IW in 10, which is probably a good idea. We’ll have 7 to 8 cities for out GA by then.
I’m not sure Greece is our best first target. England or France may be softer for a cat + legionary move.
No one initiated contact this set of turns.
Next Player must declare on England on Turn 9 of their turns.

SAVE 1250BC (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/handy_SG003_BC1250_01.SAV)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM_1250handy.JPG

Looks good Handy!

My computer is still out of comission. So I guess it's T MC?

Looks good Handy!

My computer is still out of comission. So I guess it's T MC?

yeah, T_McC and I are going to tag team I guess until you PC gets fixed and some other people get back into town.

I've got to leave town next week [Mon thru Fri :( ], so T_McC will have to play 10 turns left handed, 10 turns righthanded... :lol: Since I'm leaving I wanted to try to move this along some.

Well ... I think I'll let Yom pick it up next. Because he and I will be alternating next week until Coletite's computer is fixed.

So How many people are actually able to play in this team right now?

@mad-bax - I've been able to play all along. Yom should be back from vacation today, so I'd pencil him in to be able to play starting Sat/Sun. Handy has played, but is going on vacation next week. Tinkez gets back from business trip next Thursday. Coletite still has a sick computer, so let's pencil in a return about the same time as Tinkez.

So ... currently only myself and Handy are able to play. Next week it will be me and Yom. After the 29th we should be back up to 5. I don't think we need another player added, unless Coletite doesn't feel he can get his computer fixed in the very near future.

We're just going to be slower than the other teams because we'll try to wait extra time so people aren't playing twice in three rounds. May be a problem next week, but hopefully Coletite can get his computer up soon.

So How many people are actually able to play in this team right now?

T_McC summed up our situation nicely.

My "computer guy" has my PC and is going to let me know what I need. I know I'll need a new processor, so I'll have to order that, but beside that all I need right now is new memory and un upgraded operating system. All that should be done, at latest, next... tuesday? I hope. Then I'll be able to play Civ. (The new processor and video card are for Sims 2 when it comes out this September. Hopefully it will all be satisfactory for Civ 4!!!)

Since no word from Yom yet, I'll play tonight to push it along a bit. Hopefully we'll get another player back by Tuesday.

Since no word from Yom yet, I'll play tonight to push it along a bit. Hopefully we'll get another player back by Tuesday.

I may be unable to play from this Monday (7-27) all the way through perhaps Sunday. Unfortunately it is all work related. :( If you don't hear from me assume the worst and move the game along if you can. May get a chance to check in from the road, but no way I'll be able to play.

SGOTM3 - I'm up Again?

1250 BC (0)
A thoroughly irritating MM round, every extra shield or trade I can come up with is corrupted. Swap tiles to delay the settler from Roma until growth to size 6.

We may be in for another round of workers.

Must declare war on England by the conclusion of my 9th turn.

IT - Lovely. Biz shows up and offers to swap TM's for all 12 of our gold. Turned down, but he's #3 on the list. Now France shows up, same deal, same rejection. We will be 1st to Math as best as I can tell. I believe the rules dictate that France is due a war declaration in 40 turns.

Math comes in, set a course for Iron Working.

1225 BC (1)
Start a trading round: Can pay France gpt, as we do not need to declare on them within 20 turns. First, trade Math to Liz for IW, Writing, TM and 4 gold. {Had to stop myself from haggling. :lol: } Liz has a lot of tech. Germany coughs up The Wheel and 3 gold for Math. Joan gives up HBR, CB and TM for Math. The World Map is worth a lot. I am not exactly shocked to see Iron at Roma. We also have Horses at Antium.

Might as well contact the pale blue scout: It's Abe (60 turns to war). I pick up the WM for Math, 24 gold and 5 gpt.

Net: 5 techs + WM for 17 gold + 5 gpt.

Decisions ... decisions ... well, to obfuscate: I can't help but notice that we are in contact with a few other people. Violate my own principle since I want to squeeze more out of Math.

Contact Babylon (80 turns to war): Score Mysticism and 20 gold for Math. Contact Russia (100 turns to war). They have nothing to offer.

Now the net is 6 techs + WM for 5 gpt. Decide to drive us towards Lit for the Great Library. We'll get gov't techs that way.

Take a look at my own dot map ...

1200 BC (2)
Veii: Spear --> Worker.

Roma grows and swaps tiles. Lux tax to 20%.

1175 BC (3)
Found Pompeii, and in the process screw up where the Greeks were going to try and settle. :lol:

Antium: Spear --> Worker.

1150 BC (4)
Cumae: Barracks --> Warrior.

1125 BC (5)
England completes the Pyramids, so watch the cascade!

Roma: Settler --> Settler
Spice City: Worker --> Worker

1100 BC (6)
Veii: Worker --> Catapult
Antium: Worker --> Spearman

There is a Greek Warrior/Archer pair that is doing the chicken dance trying to avoid attacking our Spears on Hills.

1075 BC (7)
Attack reg. Warrior with Elite Spear, win but red-line. No leader.

1050 BC (8)
Found Pisae.

War with England next turn.

1025 BC (9)
Roma: Settler --> Spear

Just so I don't forget. "Hey Liz, you're number 1 with me ... " and it's on.

Two Greek Archers can attack Roma next turn. Our Archer kills one, and I'll risk the pillage to let the Greeks attack a Spear on a Hill.

1000 BC (10)
Yep, they pillaged. We now have a road to Horses. Our Archer dispatches their Archer and a Spear shuffle ensues.

Final Notes:
I'm expecting the Settler to go due N of the worker, poaching a game forest and a 2nd Iron from the French.

I doubled our workforce to 6. We shouldn't stop building workers. If we're going to have a Despotism GA, let's get our tiles improved first.

The Greeks haven't been a problem, and the English are rather far away and Iron-less. Catapults are nice builds, we should have 1-2 in each front-line city. We've got a nice defensive set-up on our front lines with cities on Hills behind Walls.

I see about 4 easy spots to settle: A tight fishing village NW of Spice city (maybe 1 N of the fish), the Hill 3 SW of Cumae, and then maybe S-S-W of Pompeii and all 4S - 2W of Pompeii. A 13-14 city Despotism GA is better than a 9 city Despotism GA.

To review:
Germany (11 turns)
France (31 turns)
America (51 turns)
Babylon (71 turns)
Russia (91 turns)

Come, join me and Handy in the pool! (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/handy_SG003_BC1000_01.SAV)

Our lands:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/SGOTM3_HNDY_BC1000.JPG

Blue Circles = Horses/Iron
Pink Dots = Possible city sites

Moenia = Walls

The Greeks still haven't brought anything strong. Until they start taking us more
seriously, I think we can get away with playing defense, expanding and improving our lands.

The longer we hold off the GA, the more we will get out of it.

I'm back. I wasn't sure exactly how long the trip was going to take. Sorry about returning later than planned.

Our situation looks good so far. With this being NOW and not AW, we might be able to hold off war until Monarchy, but we'll have to play defensively until that point. What does the team think about this?

Also, did we declare war on England? I'm not sure as T_McC's wording was a little confusing: Just so I don't forget. "Hey Liz, you're number 1 with me ... " and it's on.

Ehh ... the smiley I wanted was no longer available. Let's re-phrase that as "I give Liz the one-finger salute" and declare war.

It's fairly easy to hold off our GA until Monarchy, we just don't build any Legions. But we'll have a difficult time going on the offensive without Legions. Archer/Spear/Cat stacks would be nice against anyone but our immediate neighbors, Greece.

I have no problem with just playing defense, but be forewarned we are two techs from Monarchy (plus our current Lit research). Greece is really not yet in the spirit of the game. They are just sending trickles. I don't expect much out of the English as we're a fairly long walk for them. The player after Yom (me?) will have to declare on Biz, but he's really far away. So yeah, we have a nice buffer to delay an offensive and I am now leaning towards waiting. Might as well expand and develop in peace first, then unleash a tidal wave at the AI.

I won't get to play until I retrun from an extended road trip. All work & no play makes me :( You may not hear from me until Sunday August 1st. If no contact, just keep skipping me.

Defense sounds pretty good to me. Cats & Horsemen (do we have HBR?) can do a decent job on defense and maybe even pop a leader. Since we have to raze everything, defense & expansion sound like the way to go.

We can't use slaves, so keep kicking out thse workers. Perhaps a second granary for a worker pump?

Yom, feel free to pick up the game.

I got my computer back! Supposedly, it runs fine now. I should be able to play as soon as my turn comes up, which looks like it's after Yom?

I'm not going to be able to get this today (wednesday) as I'm really busy and up in a lot of sgs :(. Coletite, you should probably swap with me or I should be skipped.

Coletite is now up.

Then we'll see if Yom is available or whether I'll have to take another turn.

I'm about to start my journey back home, I will be home tomorrow evening, so I'll be back soon.

I'll grab the game if no one else has done so at least on Friday (not sure if I can play on Thursday after I'm back).

I'll be able to grab it when I get home (about 2 hours). Can we recap what needs to be done?

You don't need to declare war on anyone on your turn. The next player will have to declare on Germany.

When we get Lit, you could try to trade it around. Ideally we would get a leader for the Great Library, but we may still be able to get some value for it. No gpt to Germany, but you can pay anyone else.

We don't need to be aggressive against any of our opponents yet. We have terrain on our side and can get nice kill ratios on defense. The Iron is not hooked up yet, and it would be nice not to have to build Legions and kick off our GA just yet.

Catapults are good builds, especially in cities that don't have Barracks. We won't go wrong having any new cities start by building Walls. Try to get 1-2 workers out on your turn, and I think we can get another settler out of Roma on your 10. Try not to let Roma drop below size 4. Ideally we can get two settlers on your turns, but the numbers may not line up.

A medium-term project is to get a Granary in our southern Cow city. I would choose that over Barracks and supply troops from the core out. That city is our second source of Settlers.

Roma grows in 3 turns. Manage the cycle so it goes +4 food, +4 food, +2 food. The Game tile can be used by Antium 1 turn out of 3. Be on the lookout for situations where you can time a worker build to be on the same turn as growth. More workers = more better.

A settler is active, and a dotmap is on the previous page.

Pre Flight

Everything looks good…

IBT

2 Greek archers move into view
Pompeii walls-granary

975 BC (1)

Not much

IBT

…

950 BC (2)

Rome spear-settler

IBT

…

925 BC (3)

Veii cat-worker
Antium spear-spear

Settled Ravenna-walls

Archer kills greek archer (no promotion…)

IBT

…

900 BC (4)

Archer kills greek archer (no promotion…)
Cumae warrior-warrior

IBT

English warriors attack Ravenna, Spear promotes to Elite!

875 BC (5)

Sorry, I forgot to MM Rome and the settler will take 1 extra turn.
Spice City worker-worker

IBT

Lit comes in-Poly
England has started G. Lib
Pisae walls-cat
Japan builds Oracle
America starts G Lib

850 BC (6)

Greece is the only one who doesn’t have lit…
Rome Settler-settler

IBT

A bunch of people starting G Lib
I see a Hoplite!

825 BC (7)

I remembered to MM Rome!
Veii worker-worker

IBT

Ravenna walls-worker

800 BC (8)

Traded Math to Russia for Philo
Antium spear-spear

IBT

…

775 BC (9)

Cumae warrior-warrior

IBT

…

750 BC (10)

Settled Hispalis- walls

Tinkez is up now.

I'll try to post a picture and some thoughts tonight.

The save is here. (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/handy_SG003_BC0750_01.SAV)

Ramblings:

Swap Spice City to something besides the worker. There are already 10 shields in the box and the city won't grow for 5 more turns. Barracks might work nicely.

We must declare on Germany by the end of your 1st turn.

The countdown is as follows:

We declare on Germany in 1 turns. France in 21, America in 41, Babylon in 61, and Russia in 81.

Don't be afraid to broker techs with people other than the Germans. In fact there is a 3-fer on the table involving Polytheism, Map Making and CoL. We can get them all for the equivalent of 12 gpt. [Turn science down to 0% ... ]. And don't forget to broker the WM around every few turns.

Check the builds. We don't want a city to produce enough shields to build a worker, but have to wait to grow in order to produce the unit.

Remember 2 MP in Despotism. Some non-front line cities that have more than 2 units. Tinkez should check to see if the excess units would be better served as MP elsewhere.

Catapults are good builds. I'd like to see us have enough for 2 in each front-line city. I count 3 cities currently on the front lines (Roma, Ravenna, Hispalis).

You should be able to produce 2 settlers from Roma on your turns. The dot-map from the previous page is still valid.

The blue circle in the picture indicates English troops.

Ok, I'll try to play tonight when I get back from work.

I've started to play my turns, but a friend of mine came for a visit. I have to postpone the rest of my turns until tomorrow morning.

Pre-turn: Switch Spice city to barracks. Buy Polytheism from France for WM+35gp+6gpt. Then trade Poly+WM+1gpt to babylon
for Map making+WM. Get WM+20gp from Germany for WM. Trade CoL+WM from Russia for Polytheism. WM+3gp for WM from America.
Another hawk round for WM nets 5gp.
Total: 3 techs+WM for 7gp+7gpt+WM. Quite ok in my opinion.
Start research on monarchy @min because no change in turns if raised to 40%. Gain +14gpt. Change Cumae from warrior to
catapult. Move spear from Cumae to protect mine next to hoplite.
Bombard hoplite on hill with catapult, miss. Hit enter.

IBT: Elizabeth wants peace. No way. (She has rebublic, btw.). Hoplite moves to road towards Cumae and another moves to
hill next to Rome. Rome settler -> pult.

730BC (1): Hit hoplite with catapult. Whip catapult in Cumae for cost of 1 citizen. Now I should have protection against
the hoplites in Cumae also. Declare war on the germans.

IBT: Hoplite moves towards unprotected workers. They finish mine.

710BC (2):Catapult from Cumae wounds hoplite. Joan has rebulic and monarchy, won't trade.

690BC (3):Hoplites retreat to heal. Can't attack them as we don't have anything good enough to hurt them exept catapults.

IBT: Rome catapult -> settler

670BC (4): 2 Greek archers pop up next to Pompeii, but I anticipated this and moved spear and pult there. It should hold.

IBT: Spice city barracks -> horse

650BC (5): Viroconium founded. More greek forces approach Pompeii, so I move archer towards that direction. Still no deals
on monarchy.

IBT: Greeks start Great Lib. They land an archer next to Spice city!

630BC (6): Move another spear to spice city.

IBT: Archer attacks Spice city and wins our spear redlining in process. Siege on Pompeii starts, two archers attack and
lose promoting our spear to elite. Greek horseman appears on mountain.
Antium horse -> horse.

610BC (7): Our horse kills that annoying archer next to spice city. I trade Currency from babylon for WM+165gp+9gpt. DAMN!
Our money is not good enough for Abe. I still can't squeeze monarchy out of him with currency+8gp+12gpt+WM???! Then we have
to wait.

IBT: English start Sun Tzu! They're advanced... Hoplite advances spice city. Rome settler -> spear.

590BC (8): Nothing special

IBT: Hoplite moves next to Antium. 2 more greek horses appear. Now they're taking us seriously.

570BC (9): Move pult and horse to antium to deal with the hoplite next turn.

IBT: Hoplite pillages next to Antium.

550BC (10): Our vet horse wins hoplite after catapult attack, no promotion. Our horses are now offline, so next player must
reconnect them.

Now there is a deal possible with Abe for monarchy. Next player can choose wheter or not to trade. There is a settler in Cumae
waiting for the spear completion and then going to build a town on the coast.

The save is here (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/handy_SG003_BC0550_01.SAV)

Our lands at 550BC:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Handy_550BC_SGOTM3.JPG

I guess I'm up, so got it.

Looks good, Tinkez!

We are now at war with Greece, England and Germany, right? Our plan is to wait for Monarchy then hook up our iron, upgrade warriors to Legions then go on the offensive?

I finally back, a day early. :D

I can play something later today, so I'll check all my SG's to see if I'm up in something.

SGOTM3 - Technicalities

550 BC (0)
Not that I'm an untrusting SOB ... :mischief:

Recall that one rule in this variant is "No Haggling". I went back to the 750 BC save and tried to reconstruct the trades Tinkez made. Bottom line: We owe Joan 30 gold and Hammurabi 36 gold. Since we declare on France in 11 turns, they have to be paid in cash. Babylon can take gpt. Lot of rules to keep track of in this variant.

We can buy Construction and get into the next age ... but no deal on Monarchy seems to be out there. [No haggling.]

No big changes in MM.

Turn research up to 40%. This saves us money on purchasing the tech later, as Monarchy has a trade multiplier for being a gov't tech.

530 BC (1)
Win 2 Battles vs. Greek Horses, promote another Spear to Elite.

English bearing in on our NW. Kill Greek Archer after two cat shots.

510 BC (2)
Just Movin' and flinging rocks.

English are starting to become a threat.

The cascade has been in full force: The Colossus, Great Library, Great Wall, and Hanging Gardens all have completed. Maybe the Oracle too. Sun Tzu's is the only active build.

490 BC (3)
Found Lugdunum. Have a good round with bombardment.

Smite a couple of English units.

Make a couple of bucks flipping the WM around.

470 BC (4)
Kill an English unit.

Greeks are wandering up in force. The rivers here may get a little tricky.

450 BC (5)
Nothing much happens. Lux has to go to 10% for Roma.

430 BC (6)
Kill an English Warrior. Greeks have a reasonable stack to attack Roma (doubt they will).

410 BC (7)
Greeks move towards Veii. Should be able to pick them off before they get there.

Bad day for our Horses, lose two against Greeks. But do win 2 vs. the English.

370 BC (9)
Ugh. The capital riots. :wallbang:

Kill two Greek interlopers after some good bombardment.

Monarchy is due in 16. On the 1st turn of the next round we get 7 gpt back, so we should be able to revolt by the end of the next player's turn.

350 BC (10)
We finally get our 1st leader. Not at all sure what to do with him, we can't build any wonders. I don't really like our Army options either. May just save him for Legions. Or we can instantly complete a Forbidden Palace.

Final Notes:
Joan will sell us Monarchy. But we have to declare war on her next turn, so we really shouldn't buy from her. I suggest we keep research on towards the tech, as I believe we get a better than 1 gold discount for each beaker we invest. It would also help to be able to trade the tech to the Russians, as they are the only other ones without Monarchy. Currently Cathy has nothing to offer us.

If we wanted to build an FP, Antium is about the only reasonable place I see. Roma is very nicely located to have 2 rings around it. Any of our other already-founded cities are not as good. I suspect the best location for our FP would be in the spot occupied by Paris, but that is a little ways off.

Remember we have to keep building settlers since we have to raze all enemy cities. Once in Monarchy, Roma is a 4-turn Settler factory and Pompeii may be coaxed to do the same.

The picture isn't much different than at 550 BC. I leave a settler active who should go somewhere south. I'm sure Captain Handy will figure out a good spot for him. :)

We have 13 workers. I had a slow round with them as I emphasized Catapults. We now have 11 of them. Builds should skew towards Horses and a little infrastructure. I feel the best use of our GA is to build infra, not troops, so we'll be on the defensive for a little while longer. Once we have Temples/Libraries/Markets up and running, then we can lay the smack down on our neighbors.

The workers are pushing roads and forest chops. With all of our hills we are probably better off with the forests knocked down to generate more food.

Pick up the Save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/handy_SG003_BC0350_01.SAV)

Since Yom should still be quite busy, Handy is up!

And now he gets to be in charge. :whipped: :lol:

I GOT IT 8-1-04

Things sound pretty good. :D
I agree with building infrastructure during the upcoming GA. Also sounds like a plan to stay on defense until after the GA. Nothing like a good economy to allow a steamroller to develop. Horses & cats are good builds. They both upgrade and can do a lot of damage on both offense & defense when paired together.

Thanks T_McC for keeping track of when we need to declare war and moving the game along.

SGOTM03 350bc
Declaration Update:
We declare on France in 1 turn; America in 21, Babylon in 41, and Russia in 61.

Summary
Revolted (1 turn left)
founded 2 cities.
Killed some AI, lost no units.
Built a horse army that is a big help on defense.
[C3C armies are so much better.]
Lots of elite wins, no additional leaders.
The AI traffic is getting pretty heavy.
The rivers make moving cats tricky.

Pre Turn – Somehow research got turned down to zero.
I downloaded the save from the scoreboard to double check & it’s set @ zero also. :hmm: Oh well, I can get it in 20 @ +12gpt or in 19 @ 0gpt. I’ll go for 20 @ +12gpt.

I’ll follow T’s suggestion for skew builds towards horses & infrastructure. Maybe a couple of cats & workers.

Decide to change Spice city to a temple we can chop pretty fast. Lots of workers there.
No really good leader options here.
I decided to build an army with the leader. I’d like the FP a little further from Roma.
We can’t begin the GA for 20 more research turns + anarchy, so I may load this baby with spears and go disconnect Paris, then move towards other capitals. No AI trades would help our cause a lot. OTOH, with spear & cat support we could do a lot of damage with a horse army. Spears to guard the army and cats to soften up our victims. By building the army we can get another leader.

IBT

Turn 1 330
Declare on France. Now at war with Greece, England, Germany & France.
Decide to build on a hill next to a lake. Two hills & a forest there the AI will do the “stack & attack” maneuver on, but cats should help a good bit.
Hispalis begins a 10-turn chop, which will complete the cat build due in 19.
Switch Pompeii from settler to spear. Pompeii can build spears to escort Roma’s settlers.

IBT
Forgot to record the builds. Worker from Viroconium, maybe something else.

Turn 2 310
Cats perform very well.
We get an archer & horseman promoted to elite in the course of killing 1 archer & 3 Greek horses.
Mine at Antium should get it up to the magic number - 10spt.
MM Cumae for a little growth.

IBT
Ravenna & Pisae finish barracks and begin spear & horse.
Roma – settler – warrior.
Germany drops a sword due N of Spice City. We need walls there after the Temple. AI loves to attack lux cities.

Turn 3 290
The rives make cat & horse movement very tricky. I can’t get a cat shot at the sword, but hope I’ve induced him to move onto the horses where we can attack him. We won’t lose a city, but may lose a spear.

Turn 4 270
Bomb the German sword to redline, then load the army with horses and off him.
I’d really like to get this army out on the move under spear cover.

IBT
France is in the mix. Lots of English archers and horses near Pisae.

Turn 5 250
Found Lutetia E of Rome on a hill next to a lake. Put 2 spears and a cat there in hopes of scaring off attacks. Select a wall build. There is some Greek cultural encroachment there.
Off English archer & promote.
Hawk WM for 3 gp total.

IBT
France is sending swords our way.

Turn 6 230
Elite horse offs English horse.
Rome is going to kick out a couple two 1 turn veteran warriors to act as MP in order to free up some spears. Then another settler.

IBT
It’s starting to get crowded.
Germany has 2 swords and 1 warrior west of Ravenna
France has 1 swords & 4 warriors W of Ravenna
England is moving 1 archer & 2 horses towards Pisae
Greece sends 1 hoplite, 3 horses, and 2 archers SE of Roma.


Turn 7 210
Horse army is healing so it can work on defense at Ravenna.
Ravenna needs more cats.
Bomb & kill a warrior.

IBT
Greeks are in our borders. Hoplite stayed on the mountain leaving the 3 horses exposed.

Turn 8 190 BC Handy takes anarchy turns
Pull trigger on Monarchy for 8gpt +117 gold (no haggle) with America and revolt. We will be back under control in 4 turns says the advisor.
Kill 1 of the 3 Greek horses and 1 English archer. I don’t think we have lost any units on these turns – yet.

Turn 9 170 BC
Geez there are lots of Ai units.
Kill 2 Greek horses & another English horse. Those horses with 2 moves are a PITA. Next target are the swords in our lands.
I had to hire several tax men, so be sure to switch them back after the revolt ends.
Zero gpt, zero in the bank. :D
IBT
France wants to talk. They have Republic & Const.
.

Turn 10 150 BC
Found Byzantium.
Kill German archer & sword with Army.
Kill English horse on hill next to Pisae.
Kill Greek archer & hoplite after bombing
That pretty much clears out the eastern front. The western front is still very busy.
Zero gold, +1gpt. Anarchy should last 1 turn for the next player, then end.

Notes:
1. There is a spear + warrior covering the 2 cats N of Pompeii. Move the spear & cats back to Pompeii next turn. The warrior belongs in Cumae.
2. Spear NE of Veii is guarding the army. Move them to Veii next turn.
3. Ravenna is hard to reinforce. City should hold unless the RNG screws us. It would hurt to lose it.
4. If the AI bypasses Ravenna to go for Veii (no walls), retreat the army + spear into Veii and bomb the AI with Veii’s 4 cats. Veii needs walls after the revolt ends.

Watch the workers near the front line. We can’t afford to lose them to a horseman.
After the revolt is over, hook up that iron & lets build some UU’s.
France will found a city on the IBT that is 2N, 1NE of Rome.

We declare on America in 11, Babylon in 21, and Russia in 41.
Feels like we have a pretty decent chance at this game. :goodjob:

Based on a review of recent play, it looks like YOM is up.

Yom - UP
coletite
Tinkez
T_McC
Handy

Pick this up and save us from Anarchy (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/handy_SG003_BC0150_01.SAV)

Looks a little hairy in the save. Next two turns could cause a bit of a sweat. Nothing where we're on the short end of probability, but still not much margin for error in the pRNG.

Be forewarned: We will be paying 33 gpt in unit support costs under Monarchy. Don't expect to do much pre-GA research. I only see 2 or 3 more city sites we should be trying to claim. A couple are in the Tundra, including one with 3 food bonuses. There is a another that can wait for us to go on the offensive against Greece.

Since we should be playing defense and building infra during our GA it would probably be best to not build settlers during that time. We need to let our cities grow, especially those that can reach size 7 w/o an Aqueduct.

Pompeii is building regular units. If we want to build military out of there, a Barracks would be nice.

Pompeii is building regular units. If we want to build military out of there, a Barracks would be nice.

*%@#$.:wallbash: I can't believe I missed the no barracks in Pompeii! I hate these Latin names.

It is getting crowded, walled cities & cats help a lot. The rivers are very tricky.

Agree that there are few remaining city sites. At least there are several food bonus we can use in the Tundra.

We need more cats. We are starting to see a lot more swords attacking us. Soon it will be MI & Knights. Cats are the great equalizer. Probably should dedicate at least one city to always be building them - even if it's a 2spt city. More AI units coming means we need more cats. Maybe we should build them in Pompeii.

I'm having major second thoughts about the army. Perhaps a pillaging spear army would have been the better long term play. :hmm: Attack armies take sooo long to heal in PTW.

Recall that one rule in this variant is "No Haggling". I went back to the 750 BC save and tried to reconstruct the trades Tinkez made. Bottom line: We owe Joan 30 gold and Hammurabi 36 gold. Since we declare on France in 11 turns, they have to be paid in cash. Babylon can take gpt. Lot of rules to keep track of in this variant.


Sorry about that. I totally forgot that rule. Should have reread the rules before playing. :(

@Tinkez - Not a problem. Since it happened once, now everyone will remember it. And I bet every team does this at least once.

The telltale sign of haggling is when the AI is given anything less than all of your cash when it also wants you to include gpt. The AI always asks for as much up front as it can possibly get.

I looked at the scoreboard and it seems that we're doing fine compared to other teams playing the variant. At 150BC were at second position in variant teams. Only Smackster is far out compared to us...

Let's keep it this way and even improve a little :D

Just to keep the roster on the top page:

Yom is up.
Coletite is on deck.
T_McC
Tinkez
Handy

I got it. Sorry I've been relatively inactive. They need to put the SGOTM's in with the regular succession games for easy access. I'm just too lazy to click on User CP I guess. I'll try to get this tomorrow.

Good Luck Yom. We are getting pretty close to the point in the game where it gets really dicey. Lucky for us, the GA is just around the corner.

How's it coming Yom?

Sorry for not playing yet, but I seem to have lost my PTW CD. Is there any way to play it using my conquests CD since it includes PTW?

Yeah. I play with my Conquests CD in. Go to Atari --> Play the World from the Start menu and it should run.

I'll be gone Friday & Saturday (8-6 & 8-7) so after Yom plays feel free to jump over me and I'll play my turns when I get back.

This game is moving a little slowly, let's pick up the pace.

Since we are now past 72 hrs, Yom is skipped.

Coletite is up!

Sorry for taking so long, but when I tried to use PTW the way you described (with the Conquest CD in), the computer insisted that there was no PTW CD in and wouldn't let me use PTW though conquests worked fine.

Sorry for taking so long, but when I tried to use PTW the way you described (with the Conquest CD in), the computer insisted that there was no PTW CD in and wouldn't let me use PTW though conquests worked fine.
[Lurk-on]
I also lost my PTW cd recently, I had to uninstall PTW and uninstall Conquests, then re-install Conqests and patch it again. That was the only way I could get it to work, and you have to re-create the PTW startup icon. I got this from a thread buried in the Conquests forum, now I wish I'd bookmarked it
[Lurk-off]

I'll be able to grab the save tomorrow (about 20 hours from now). If Yom can grab it before, go ahead. Otherwise, I'll do so tomorrow.

In the meantime, can we post a recap of what needs to be done in the next 10?

Got it. Playing the turns in 3...2...1...

Sorry for holding up the game, but on the IBT after my first turn, we got another leader. I wanted to find out what we want to do with it before I continued.

Also, I had to turn lux and science to 0 to avoid losing improvements (we have 0 gold.)

If we haven't lost any cities, I would consider building an empty Army (for now). We'll fill it with Legions once you hook up our Iron and either build us a few or scrape together enough money to upgrade a few vet Warriors.

Basic plan is get to Monarchy, hook up our Iron and start our GA. During the GA we should play defensively (or more correctly, we probably don't need to go charging after anyone yet), and push infrastructure. My personal style is to not build settlers during a GA, and only build workers from cities that cannot possibly build anything else. Keep our population as large as possible.

Hopefully each of our cities can get two buildings during the GA. Have some cities building military, and the rest doing infra, and swap around who does what so each city can be developed. Once we have a well-developed empire, then we can go bash some heads.

An army sounds like a good choice!

I'm looking forward to the legion army to punish the opponents on my turns :D

So ... uhhh ... what happened?

Exactly? What is going on? Coletite, please play or post the save.

I'm back from the weekend trip. I think that's all my travel for a long time. This game is really lagging, but I hope we get word from coletite tonight. If he does not post by Tuesday (8-10) it will be over 72 hours with no word (he last posted 8-7), so I'll just pick it up and play it from the most recent save. This is shaping up to be an interesting game.

I'm up in HNDY05a tonight.

1. Handy
2. coletite
3. T_McC
4. Tinkez
5. Yom

I am so sorry for the delay. I'll spare the details, but it was one thing after another this weekend. Nothing bad, just busy. Dogone married life! Anyway, I'll finish tonight and post, I swear. I would have been done on Saturday, but I was a little gunshy about proceeding with the leader before I got some thoughts from you all.

Let's hope that this will be the last of teh delays, eh?

PreFlight

Happiness OK
Anarchy…2 turns to go
Wow… look at all those baddies…

IBT

Not much… killed one archer. No casualties

130 BC (1)

Moved around a bit…

IBT

France lost 3 warriors… and gave us a leader!

110 BC (2)

Used leader to create an empty army (for legions)

IBT

Veii walls-market

90 BC (3)

Killed an English horse to make room for workers to get to iron
Ravenna spear-cat
Pompeii spear-cat
Moving workers toward iron near Ravenna (too many enemy units near Rome)

IBT

The English have built Sun Tzu

70 BC (4)

Moved around

IBT

Not much…

50 BC (5)

Workers begin road to iron.
Killed some enemy units
Changed some builds to either markets (just one) or cats

IBT

Argh. Lost a spear and 2 workers on the iron hill

30 BC (6)


At this point, I want the next player to take over since I don't think I'll be able to get the iron hooked up.

Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/handy_SG003_BC30_01.SAV)

I didn't upload the save to the scoreboard since I didn't finish.

Ok, I'll grab it tonight & see what I can do.

I looked at the save and took a screenshot of the situation:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Handy_30BC.JPG

Here are my thoughts:

- We have lots of catapults, too few of them are in the tough spot, which is currently Ravenna.
- E of Ravenna is our elite horseman. He can capture workers with this turn back from French lands behind the iron hill, move back and move the workers there too.
- There are 3 workers S of Ravenna under a spear. I'd move these to Ravenna and move the spear to protect the recaptured workers. In Ravenna there is also one catapult, this should attack the swords on the iron hill.
- Move one or two catapults from Pisae towards Ravenna along the road. We need to protect that city with more catapults. In Pisae is also a horse, which can be used to finish off english troops or move towards Ravenna, depending the result of remaining catapult shots.
- I'd change Ravenna production from catapult to archer to have some forces to finish off wounded enemies.
- Army (10/13) in Antium should move to Veii and attack the wounded german archer.
- Archer in Rome should try to finish off reg archer SW of Rome. The wounded archer will most likely retreat to heal.
- Move one or two catapults from Pompeii towards Ravenna and most enemy troops.

I do not know how Handy will play, but these are steps I would take. Good luck Handy!

Just a note: when I decided to road the iron near Ravenna, there were not very many units there and a lot more near Rome. Now maybe it would be better to hook up the iron near Rome? The swords near Ravenna are troubling without catapults.

[edit] Sorry about not playing the full 10, but I fealt that hooking up the iron ASAP and kicking off our GA were too important. After losing those 2 workers, I decided a better player should probably handle it.

Ironman

Pre Turn (6) 30 BC

As of 150 BC we were supposed to:
We declare on America in 11, Babylon in 31, and Russia in 51. So coletites 10 are okay, and I declare on my first official turn.

Clown in Antium gets to work on a market
Moena taxman gets a job building horses
Slice city fires the taxman – market

Here is how I played it.
Bomb on French sword on iron fails
Elite spear kills wounded French archer N of Veii
Horse army kills second archer N of Veii.
Cats from Veii move under the cover of the horse army. They go to Ravenna next turn.
Bomb & kill archer @ Pisae.
If we capture the French workers, the 2 swords on the Iron will attack & kill our horse. So, the horse kills a wounded German sword instead NE of Veii.
Spear & workers retreat to Ravenna.
Elite horse from Cumae kills the other wounded sword NW of Veii.
Spear from Veii kills wounded archer.
Not much else to do.

IBT

Turn 7 10bc
Cats miss a bunch. :(
Kill French sword with army
Kill French settler near Pompeii and execute the two captured slaves.
I think we can work our way out of this. AI is by passing Ravenna. Maybe because it’s on a hill with walls to attack a softer target. I’m hoping they stumble their way into our cats next turn.

IBT
Babylon begins Sistine
Well, a couple of units attacked Ravenna after walking around it. Ravenna is attacked. We kill a warrior but lose a spear.

Turn 8 10ad
Kill a sword & warrior @ Ravenna.
Now we have a clear path to move some cats there.
Almost done. 2 wounded French swords left near Ravenna.
Worker moves out under spear cover and spots a French Knight

IBT
Horse on a hill dies on defense.
Spear on Hill defends against the French Knight.

Turn 9 30ad
Kill 2 Greek horses & archer near Rome
Elite horse kills English horse after bombing.
Our land is clear of Enemies.
Three workers are building a road to the iron. Done in 2 turns.
We are going to have a tough time holding the Iron. We are light on spears.

Turn 10 50ad
Things look under control.
There are six cats in Ravenna now to bomb swords as they approach.
Need to pillage the French iron before they send too many Knights at us.

IBT
Germany & Greece want peace. Ha.

Now for my 10.

Turn 1 70
Declare war on America
We need to declare on Babylon in 21, and Russia in 51.
Elite archer pops a leader. I build a second empty army. Two legion armies. Now we can take the wood to some folks, and we can also build the pentagon. :D
Iron is hooked so I switched 3 cities to legions. Rome Prebuild I started will complete the first one this turn. Antium in 2 turns.
Kill English spear.
Sliders move to 10/10 to get a little more production in Antium&

IBT
Knight kills horse I left exposed on a hill leader fishing. :mad:

Turn 2 90
Elite horse kills English archer.

IBT
Crap, England founded on the good tundra with the food. Beat us by 1 turn.

Turn 3 110 Ad
Legionary heads to Ravenna.
Not much.

IBT
Greece shows up with 4 horses & a spear @ Roma.
Turn 4 130 AD
Golden Age begins
Crank up research, construction in 9.

Turn 5 150 ad
Building lots of markets
Rome is doing 2 turn legions to fill the army & until some markets complete. Then it will build a Market & Library.

Turn 6 170

IBT
Veii – Market - legion
Rome – legion – Market

Turn 7 190
LB shows up, so France has invention

IBT
England & Russia have formed an alliance against us. Babylon is our only Friend
Ravenna – Temple (Border expansion to protect iron) -> Market
France sends 2 knights + 2 Long Bows to Ravenna

Turn 8 210
Legion army yellow lines against a Longbow :rolleyes: . hey are off to pillage Paris and break any deals France has going.
Horse army kills a knight.
Found Brundisium near Rome. Ring 1 city. -> Temple to pull in the wheat & expand borders.

IBT
Pompeii – market – Library

Turn 9 230
Elite horse offs knight after cats redline him.
Army + 1 horse set off to pillage Paris.

IBT
Germany begins Sistine

Turn 10
Lots of infrastructure being built.
Only Veii is building units. After some markets complete build some Libraries, and some units. Switch to units if need be, but try to keep at least 2 cities on infrastructure at all times. Things are pretty easy to control now. Put a 4spt city on cats after a market completes. No such thing as too many cats.

Question of the day is:
Why did I place a horse under the army heading off to pillage Paris?
T_McC knows :D
Hint: It's because armies in PTW do something very slowly.

Strategy:
Not sure what the best use of the armies is. I felt like we needed 1 at home to help the horse army guard the homeland since I was pushing infrastructure. After that’s done, let’s consider sending the horse & 1 legion army with some cats to go raze Greece and turn this into a 1 front war. Perhaps Pillaging Paris will break some deals and provoke an AI war.
One other option is to send all three armies to raze Paris. We’ll need more homeland defense before we set off. And the Pentagon would help a lot. In the meantime, we can pillage & soften France up a bit.
Next leader should build the Pentagon.

There are a couple of 1st ring sites we can probably hold with defense 3 legions NNE and E of Rome. NNe id on a hill next to a river. Lots of mountains, but we need are going to need to bleed off a couple of settler anyway.

This game is about to get really hard.
1. Handy
2. coletite
3. T_McC UP
4. Tinkez
5. Yom

We need to declare on Babylon in 11, and Russia in 31. Curently Russia is in an alliance against us, but I guess we can make a short peace deal if offered.


I’ll try to upload both 50 & 250 ad saves to the scoreboard

Good job Handy!

At least I was doing the right thing in bombing enemy units every turn.

Maybe it's because I've never played on Emperor before combined with the varient, but this game is shaping up to be very tough. But it's great being able to learn from better players. If we can just keep the dialouge open as we approach my next turns so that I'll have some idea what to do! I feel like I've never played Civ before! :crazyeye:

Great turns Handy! :goodjob:

I hope T_McC is able to play his turns soon as I will be out from either late Thursday evening / Friday morning until Sunday evening. I can play my turns before that, if only my turn comes up soon enough. Otherwise I'm requesting a skip.

Actually, if T_McC accepts, we could change order for this rotation. I could play before I leave and then T_McC could continue where I drop off.

Is this ok?

Go ahead and play now. I'll go after Tinkez.

Ok Tinkez, you are up.

Q. Why did I place a horse under the army heading off to pillage Paris?

A. An army can only move 1 per turn in PTW. The horse is there to pillage. Here is the order: Pillage with the horse, move the horse 1 tile, move the army to cover the horse. You'll pillage twice as fast this way. Once we can build explorers, we'll put 6 of them under an army and really do some damage.

Here's a PTW pillaging thread from the war academy.

Offensive Pillaging (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3acad_pillage.shtml)

Go pillage all the tiles around Paris to break any deals France has. From there move onto the other capitals. We won't be on the offensive during the GA since we are pushing infrastructure. This one legion army with the horse under it can go from capital to capital pillaging for the rest of the game.

With any luck you'll pop one or two leaders at Ravena. You have a few elite horses there. First Leader, build the pentagon, then another legion army.

Post pentagon, when we are able to put a 4-horse army as well as two 4-legion armies in the field with some cat support we can begin razing cities. The pillaging army can just keep pillaging all game long.

So, basically, just pop 2 leaders on your first turn and we are in business. :goodjob:

Ok, Got it! I'll play today.

I will use the strategy described on the article. Thanks for the link.

Pre-turn: Looking good, Golden Age is on, not too much pressure from other civs on our borders. Wake up army in Ravenna and kill redlined French knight on hill.

IBT: French Knight attacks our army on hill and dies.

260AD (1): Kill one sword and one spear. Move units.

IBT: Babys start Leonardo

270AD (2): Sci to 10% to get construction in 1. We get 60gpt for one turn.

IBT: Damn. Wounded English horse captures 2 our workers SE of Pisae. Did not see that one coming. Sorry guys :(

280AD (3): Attack that horse with a legionary. Horse retreats. Finish it off with our horse. Move some units next to Marseilles.

IBT: Rome riots? I'm 100% sure I checked the happy faces, but still? I must have missed that, but I doubt.

290AD(4): Damn. Now I know what happened. Last thing last turn I moved a legionary to meet greek archer, and Rome was left with only one defender. Sorry. Kill one horse next to Rome, other retreats towards Pompeii redlined. I don't have units to finish him off...well, take vet warrior from Pompeii and kill that horse. Now I have to hire a clown to Pompeii for one turn, but it does not matter, library will still finish in one turn.

300AD(5): Kill last defender from Marseilles with the legion army and raze the city. 4 workers are captured. 2 of these are our old workers, so only 2 workers are disbanded on the spot. I reread the rules and they say "No foreign workers". I recaptured our own old workers and therefore understand that we can keep them. I do not have settler ready and don't want to build one during GA. Our vet legionary loses 2/4 english horse. :mad:

IBT: Germans start Leonardo

310AD(6): Nothing

IBT: Brundisium defends against greek forces. No losses.

320AD(7): Pillaging army moves on mountain SW of Paris and sees a musketeer in Avignon. We're quite a lot behind in tech.

330AD(8): Kill one french knight, redline longbow. One knight still visible 2 squares away.

IBT: That french knight attacks Ravenna. Catapult fires, miss. Computer stays still for a while, thought it crashed. Then our 12/13 horse army pops up as defender! Cold shrills....and of course the french knight kills our army. I'd want to cry... :cry: Then greek horse attacks Brundisium and kills our elite spear. :mad:

340AD(9): Our elite horse kills that French knight after catapult bombardment.

350AD(10): Legionary loses to german sword. I had to move workers to escape that german sword. Defending might have been better option.

Summary: Not so good turns. Positive: Slowed down French by pillaging and destroying Marseilles. Focused on infrastructure during Golden Age. Rome is now quite good, it just needs worker turns.
Negative: French killed our army. :mad: Did not get leaders even though had more than 10 elite wins. We need Heroic Epic. Also we can't build Pentagon anymore as one army died.

Future: English and greek are now active, America is sending troops, they are at Ravenna in few turns, now they are in the mountains N of Chartres. Now T_McC can build more troops.

Good luck T_McC! You'll need it as I did not have it...

The save is here (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/handy_SG003_AD0350_01.SA
V)

Big rule in Always War to not attack an AI unit if it will leave your unit exposed to a counter attack. It really hurts the kill ratio. If an AI brings a three-stack of units to your city, just kill 2 if killing the last one would expose you to counter attack. Use only fast units to pick off the last AI in a stack, or a lone AI so you can retreat back to safety. We need a 10 to 1 kill ratio to win this. :) Remember, if a horse attacks the AI on a hill with no roads, the horse is stuck on the hill & exposed to counter attack. You can retreat from a hill that has roads.

Bummer on the horse army. I should have warned you to keep it away from the front unless you have sufficient spear and or legion cover. Horse armies stink on defense. I've learned that one the hard way.

Don't stop building horses. Legions upgrade path is not the best. I hope civ4 gives us upgrade options (eg option to select pike or longbow). Horses are the only unit we have that can kill & retreat and the upgrade path is nice.

T_McC is up

Question: Would not consider this in a C3C game. But, given the slow moving nature of armies in PTW, and given that we have a lot of cities to raze in this game. Since longbows are cheap, should we consider a big stack of them under a slow moving legion army? Would like to discuss the pros & cons of this.

Of the top of my head
Pro: Attack 4 and cheap to build. Army covers the lack of defense.
Con: Slow, but so are the cover armies. Crappy upgrade.

I'm thinking the combinded arms approach would have a: 4 unit legion army for cover; several cats, 1 horse to pillaging along the way; longbows for attack on cities. This should work okay even with muskets if the cats do some damage. Rifles will make this stack obsolete. We'll need cav armies for rifles.

1. Handy
2. coletite
3. T_McC UP
4. Tinkez -swapped with T
5. Yom - on deck

Big rule in Always War to not attack an AI unit if it will leave your unit exposed to a counter attack. It really hurts the kill ratio. If an AI brings a three-stack of units to your city, just kill 2 if killing the last one would expose you to counter attack. Use only fast units to pick off the last AI in a stack, or a lone AI so you can retreat back to safety. We need a 10 to 1 kill ratio to win this. :) Remember, if a horse attacks the AI on a hill with no roads, the horse is stuck on the hill & exposed to counter attack. You can retreat from a hill that has roads.

I know this and I played along this. I did not attack enemy units that were alone on a hill. Only exception to this rule was the one sword near our workers as I wanted that sword out of our lands and failed. On turn 5 the lost legionary was against a stack of english troops on a hill and the legionary was 4/4 and horse was 2/4 after catapult bombardment.
Bummer on the horse army. I should have warned you to keep it away from the front unless you have sufficient spear and or legion cover. Horse armies stink on defense. I've learned that one the hard way.

Yeah, I learned it now the hard way too. The army was in Ravenna, under catapult protection, hills(?) and walls. It was not fortified, but it had 12/13 hitpoints left. I thought there was nothing to fear, but RNG has to be always feared. :eek: Also I did not think that the army would be selected as defender as there was elite spear in there fortified.

Question: Would not consider this in a C3C game. But, given the slow moving nature of armies in PTW, and given that we have a lot of cities to raze in this game. Since longbows are cheap, should we consider a big stack of them under a slow moving legion army? Would like to discuss the pros & cons of this.

This could be a good idea. In PTW I don't like the slow healing of armies on the field as they gain only 1 hitpoint per rested turn. In C3C armies heal much faster on the field. We certainly need knights and an army of them asap.

...but RNG has to be always feared...

:lol: For sure!

The big problem with longbows, IMHO, is that they deadend.

However, since we seem to be farily far behind techwise, we need to make up in numbers and smarts. The smarts we have (or rather, Handy, T_Mc, Tinkez and Yom do ;) ) so the cheap longbows could be a plus.

I guess I'm not helping much here... :crazyeye:

I see it and will get to it tomorrow night.

LB's and Legions have the same upgrade: Guerillas. Unless that is a C3C innovation. We are going to need two forces: Knights and Knight Armies for the open ground and Cats/MDI/Legion Armies for the rugged terrain. If we can build MDI, we shouldn't build a Longbow. No defensive bombard in PTW.

SGOTM3 - Sea of Red Ink!

350 AD (0)
I get three turns of GA. We're running lux so I have to watch it.

Gentlemen, Start your Swapping!

Pompeii to a Settler, Roma to 23 shield Spears instead of 46 shield Legions. I wouldn't have gone for Feudalism, it may prevent us from building Legions. I would have gone for Engineering to clean up this mess of rivers we have.

Hispalis to a Harbor. Unfortunately we've gone mine-happy in our improvements. A lot of tiles will have to be irrigated over so we can use all of these Hills.

Leader-fish with Elite Legion on German Sword. No bite. Slide Archer back in to Roma for MP.

IT - Frogs have Muskets. Win one on IT.

360 AD (1)
Win a bunch but no leaders.

IT - No attacks

370 AD (2)
Settler completes. Will move towards old French spot. Adjust sliders to cover potential end of GA.

I am moving the workers back towards our core for a crash course in lumberjacking. We need to grow! Bigger cities means more troop support.

IT - The Greeks are very interested in Brundisium. The English in Pisae.

380 AD (3)
Lousy round on the pRNG and with bombardment. Might be a little dicey next IT.

390 AD (4)
Lose 4 workers on the IT because I can't count to 2.

Kill 4 units with Elites and get no leader.

Re-MM for the end of the GA.

400 AD (5)
Spoke too soon. Now the GA ends and Roma riots. Our ability to research is about completely shot. We have to get bigger. Roma starts on a settler, we just need to scrape together enough troops to start razing cities.

410 AD (6)
Combat was OK. I think I'll move towards whacking a Greek city to make room for another of ours. Again, spoke too soon. pRNG turns violently after a good bombardment round and we lose 2 Elite Horses to a red-lined Sword.

420 AD (7)
Found Syracuse and start it on Walls.

430 AD (8)
An ugly turn for troop positioning. Only kill 1 unit, and we have a couple wandering around our core. Paris is disconnected, for whatever that is worth.

We now have 2 Settlers active. We don't have any place to put them yet, but the next leader can work on clearing us some space.

IT - Good round. Win 4 on the IT and have a couple of enemy run away.

440 AD (9)
Kill a bunch of enemy units, and finally pop a leader. I guess this is another Legion Army since we aren't close to Knights and have no Wonders to build. Scratch that. He'll build the Heroic Epic.

IT - Win two more.

450 AD (10)
Don't attack anything.

Final notes:
I leave 3 Legions and the Leader active for the next player.

I think we can make an offensive towards Thermopylae. Those 3 Legions can join an Elite Legion, Elite Spear, and Elite Archer on the assault. I think it would be counter-productive to bring a Legion army because the path to the front goes over the mountains, so we won't be bringing Catapults with us. The leader should then rush the HE in Antium.

Alternatively we can build another Legion Army and wait a few more turns before trying to grind it out.

The two settlers are outside Cumae. We probably don't need any more in the near future, but we do need some more workers. Our economy is dying from troop support. The two remedies for that are more cities, and getting our existing cities > size 6. I didn't get very far in trying to knock down forests, but I did get roads on the proper sides of the river to increase troop mobility on both the N front and the SE front.

Way too many civs have Knights. Everyone is active, the Greeks have the S to themselves while the French, Germans and English share exercises in futility against Ravenna and Pisae. The Russians are coming, I passed them around Paris.

After Engineering I feel we have to go for Knights.

Picture of the empire. Look at all the pretty colors at our doorstep!

Ala T_McC01 we are going to have to grind this out adding 1 new city 2 tiles out at a time until we can put together an army stack.

Since Tinkez & T_McC swapped, Yom is up.

1. Handy
2. coletite
3. T_McC
4. Tinkez
5. Yom - UP

I see I'm up. I got it. I'll see if I can get PTW working. Most likely, I'll have to search for the CD. It may take me a while because Tropical Storm Charley is coming my way and may knock the power out.

Edit:A save would be nice ;).

Yom,

The latest save is on the scoreboard:

Scoreboard (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/sgotm_submission_list.php)

This link is usually on Handy's signature and I use that link all the time. Thanks Handy :)

How's it coming Yom?

Hmmm... No sign of Yom for two days?

Maybe Handy should continue if he does not show up?

Well, 72 hours & no word from Yom. Let's move on.

I'll try to get this tomorrow, but it may be Thursday. Had to help out my parents tonight with some stuff.

I'm up in 2 other SG's at the same time, so if coletite want's to switch, it's okay with me. Just be sure whoever actually grabs the game (Yom, coletite, me) posts an immediate I got it so we don't have 2 people playing at once.

I don't think I'll be able to grab it... I, too, am up in 2 other SGs. And I'll bet I'm much slower then Handy.

T_McC - If you want to switch with me that's okay. We could go T, coletite, handy this round. No way I can play tonight (Wednesday 8-18). Your option. :D

I'm sorry that I wasn't able to play my turns or say anything about my status, but my parents wouldn't let me use the computer or the internet the last 2 days. I tried to find the ptw cd and get the PTW part of the conquests CD working, but it was futile. Since I can't find my CD and conquests won't let me play PTW through the Conquests CD, I'm afraid I'm going to have to drop out of this SG :(. Again, my apologies for the wait and the lack of communication. There was really nothing I could do.

I'm sorry that I wasn't able to play my turns or say anything about my status, but my parents wouldn't let me use the computer or the internet the last 2 days. I tried to find the ptw cd and get the PTW part of the conquests CD working, but it was futile. Since I can't find my CD and conquests won't let me play PTW through the Conquests CD, I'm afraid I'm going to have to drop out of this SG :(. Again, my apologies for the wait and the lack of communication. There was really nothing I could do.

No problem Yom. I figured something was up. Hope things improve soon! :goodjob:

I think someone else should take it now, since I was the last one to play.

I got it and will play & post tonight. At least we are ahead of the staff team with respect to # of turns played. :lol:

War with Babylon due in 11.
Gosh, our economy does stink. :lol:
Rush Heroic Epic in Antium

IBT
French kill 2 spears guarding the iron

Turn 1 460 ad
Kill 4 AI units

IBT
Not much

Turn 2 470
Kill 3 AI
Upgrade some Pikes. Spears die too easy to LBs

Turn 3 480
Kill 5 AI

IBT

Turn 4 490
Lose 2 kill 4
Have to turn research down. Used gold to upgrade spears. Loads of Traffic near Rome, Ravenna & Brundisium. Can’t seem to get a leader.

Turn 5 500
Kill a few.
Pillage some French Iron

IBT
Russia begins Leo’s
We need more horses to kill & retreat with.
Have to turn research down. Used gold to upgrade spears.

Turn 6 510
There are a lot of Russian knights heading our way. Pikes will help.
Syracuse is very difficult to defend since it is surrounded by hills.

Turn 7 520
Despite the Heroic Epic & many elite wins, still no leader.

Turn 8 530
No losses. Army is moving into position to attack Greece.

IBT
Babylon begins Copernicus
Galleys attack our rear @ Spice City

Turn 9 540
Research is now at zero. 3 scientists.
Greeks begin Bach
Germany finishes Leo

Turn 10 550
Found Gonzomonium – I didn’t make that name up. It’s a river hill tile in ring 1.
Capture Thermopylae. No losses.
I forgot to kill the workers, need to do so next turn
We have a decent stack moving into Greece. Athens is on a hill, so we’ll lose units taking that, but we’ll get incense there.
Corinth has silks and is on Flat Ground.
If we can survive and capture the Greek lands, we may yet pull this out.
Our economy stinks.
Cumae needs irrigation to grow so we get 4 units supported.
Keep pillaging AI capitals in the hopes they’ll fight each other.
There are a couple of aqueducts in progress to get us over size 6 for the unit support. Two more cities this rounds helps some.
Watch happiness.

coletite is up.

Looks good Handy.

Do I need to declare on Babylon on my first turn?

I'm not sure I'll be able to get to the game tonight. I'll try for tomorrow AM. Any advice/hand holding is always welcome.

[edit] Where are we headed research wise?

Well, the first thing you can do is to abandon Thermopylae. That is not a Roman city. We have a settler to replace it, I would found the new city 1 SE of Thermopylae.

We are already at war with Babylon, there is no one left to declare on.

You can also disband the Greek workers.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to build a settler out of Roma. Once we get Pompeii straightened out and irrigated we can build some settlers out of there as well.

If you stretch our borders by two cities it was a good round. I would head for Mycenae to raze and replace, to get us started towards Corinth. When we can put together a second attack force we can clean up those cities in our south.

Best thing we can do for our economy is to have some of our cities grow to size 7.

Well, the first thing you can do is to abandon Thermopylae. That is not a Roman city. We have a settler to replace it, I would found the new city 1 SE of Thermopylae.

We are already at war with Babylon, there is no one left to declare on.

You can also disband the Greek workers.

Best thing we can do for our economy is to have some of our cities grow to size 7.

Oops! :crazyeye: I forgot about the city razing.

We have 2 ducts due pretty soon. We need to start others when those are done. If we can grab Greece's 2 luxuries & get some bigger cities the cash flow will improve.

There is a settler you can use to replace Thermopylae. I should have drug him along with the army.

Looks good Handy.

Do I need to declare on Babylon on my first turn?

[edit] Where are we headed research wise?

Babylon declared on us, so don't worry about that. :)

Go for Chivalry after we finish the current research.

If you get stuck, post a save & we'll help you out. Don't attack if you will expose yourself to a counter attack on the IBT. Use horses to kill & retreat lone AI units. Remember, horses cannot retreat from a hill, mountain or forest that does not have roads after they attack. So only attack a lone unit on unroaded flats (no forest) or tiles with roads. If the AI has three units stacked, kill 2 & leave the third if you can't retreat to safety after attacking. use the cats :goodjob: If there are no AI units that can counter-attack you then feel free to hammer with legions. Watch out for horses trying to steal workers

Ok, I'm on my second turn and I just got a leader. What should we do with him? I figured an army, but thought I should check in.

Sorry it's taking a while to play... I'm going very slowly to make sure I don't flub up and I want the teams advice. I have to go to work soon :( so I'll have to finish up tomorrow.

Ok, I'm on my second turn and I just got a leader. What should we do with him? I figured an army, but thought I should check in.

Sorry it's taking a while to play... I'm going very slowly to make sure I don't flub up and I want the teams advice. I have to go to work soon :( so I'll have to finish up tomorrow.

Make an army & send it to help the one in Greece.

If you get another army, rush the pentagon, then add a 4th legion to the Greek Armies. Good Job. :goodjob:

Don't forget to raze abandon & resettle the Greek city (where T_McC suggested) and kill the greek workers.

Also, dont red line an army if you can help it, makes them ripe for counter attack. :goodjob:

An update:

I got almost through turn 8 when my computer crashed. My turn log is ok, so I just have to replay that turn. I will finish it as soon as I get home this morning (I work Saturday mornings. :cry: )

The good news is, we got another leader! Just call me Coletite the Leader Farmer! :king: :lol:

A little advice- don't leave leaders alone one tile away from an enemy horseman. Especially don't do it twice. I, however, didn't! Just having a little fun! :lol:

Anyway, the turns:

Pre-flight

Disband Greek city.. T-something.
Will have to wait till next turn to disband workers

IBT

Lugdunam harbor-‘rax
Babylon (Ur) builds Sistine
Germany (Leipzig) builds Copernicus

560 AD (1)

Kills: 4
Losses: 1

Rome legion-settler

IBT

Veii riots? It was fine when I ended the turn… wait, no, I pulled a unit out. Sorry.

570 AD (2)

Kills: 1
Losses:

We get a leader!
Build Army

IBT

Kills: 1
Losses: 0

580 AD (3)

Kills: 1
Losses: 1

IBT

Kills: 1
Losses: 0

German cat took out walls in Syracuse
Veii temple-legion

590 AD (4)

Kills: 1
Losses: 0


IBT

Kills: 0
Losses: 1

Syracuse ‘rax-walls

660 AD (5)

Kills: 2
Losses: 1

Founded Luna, started walls

Another Leader! Moving to Brundisium to rush Pentagon

Captured that damn German cat!

IBT

Kills: 0
Losses: 2

The Greeks burn Gonzo
Pompeii aqueduct-legion

610 AD (6)

Kills: 1
Losses: 0

Rushed Pentagon at Brund

IBT

Kills: 1
Losses: 0

620 AD (7)

Kills: 1
Losses: 0

IBT

Not much…

630 AD (8)

Kill: 3
Losses: 0


IBT

Kill: 2
Losses: 1

Antium aqueduct-legion
Viroconium temple-harbor

640 AD (9)

mm Antium to grow next turn
Switched courthouse in Spice City to aqueduct

Kills: 3
Losses: 1

Another leader!

IBT

Kills: 5
Losses: 1

Syracuse walls-cat

650 AD (10)

Kills: 0
Losses: 2


Wow. What a stressful set of turns. More losses then I would have liked, but three leaders! Speaking of, there is a leader in Rome waiting to be used.

Total kills: 27
Total losses: 11

There are two armies with 4 legions each, right outside Athens. Stomp ‘em!

I'm thinking that if we get another army/horse into enemy territory to pillage iron and horses, we may see a drop in attackers. At least in knights.

Oh, and there's also a settler near greek territory. I was going to put him 1N of his present location- that would put him 1W of an iron.

Sounds good.

Nice work on the leaders! :thumbsup:

1. Handy
2. coletite
3. T_McC is UP
4. Tinkez
5. Yom

Didn't know it was my turn again. I'll probably get to it tonight.

SGOTM3 - Duck!

650 AD (0)
Our minimum science run on Engineering has 14 turns to run. We really can't go any faster and not go broke.

Swap Roma to a settler, we need to keep building these.

All movement seems to have been used. Just hit return and hope.

660 AD (1)
Kill 9 units losing 1, Athens still stands. Maybe next turn. I divert the settler to replace Athens, and form an Army to accompany the settler out of Roma next turn.

670 AD (2)
Athens falls. Mis-click on the settler and it will be two turns until we replace Athens.

Win about 5-1.

680 AD (3)
Win about 3-1, but leave Luna vulnerable. Plus there is a badly injured Army who lost 6 HP vs a LB.

690 AD (4)
Found city to replace Athens. Win maybe 5-1. Change my mind about the Settler and head for our South. We can clear all of that territory out and have a few cities to support our Army.

700 AD (5)
Don't lose any units, win three on IT. Then a perfect 2-0 on our turn. No real progress being made.

710 AD (6)
Again lose no units, but the Germans dropped off a Knight in our back lines. I hope to trade units with him on the IT.

720 AD (7)
Win one, lose one, retreat two on the IT.

Net result was to trade a Legion for 4 Knights.

730 AD (8)
Assault in the south should begin soon.

740 AD (9)
Third lux is hooked up, lux tax to 0. Win two on IT.

Burn Nippur and replace. Trade units on the northern front.

We may lose our pillaging army next turn.

750 AD (10)
Lose a unit on the IT, win about 4 of 5 on our turn.

Final Notes:
We should be able to raze and replace that English city in our south next turn, or at worst in two turns. There are two settlers in our south, so just continue over and burn the American city. When we refound the English city, move it 1 NE to get the fish without expansion. I think we can replace the American city where it stands.

Keep building settlers. Anytime Roma will grow to size 9, pop out a settler. Same thing in our southern cow city. Other cities that are corrupt but have decent food can just build 15 or 30 turn settlers so we always have 1 or 2 active.

The north is rather hairy as it seems that everyone can build Knights. The Germans got a good pillaging, but our Army has to rest. Hopefully we will have accumulated enough money to seriously research towards Chivalry. A lot of Knights show up, but very few ever attack anything.

I got it! I'm currently @work, so earliest chance to play will be tonight. Not sure that I can make it, but I'll try.

Can't comment on T_McC's turns much, but looked ok, will still alive and making progress. :goodjob:

Sound pretty good. The 3rd lux will help us quite alot.

FYI:
I played yesterday 6 turns, I'm currently at 820AD. I'll play the rest today. So far we've got 1 leader, razed 3 cities, but the kill ratio could be much better. The game is not yet lost!

Turnlog coming up in ~10hrs.

Pre-Turn:

Lots of enemy units around. Nothing to do, except use 16gp to rush walls to Neocaledonium (new city at the Greece coast). There is only 1 elite spear as defender...

IT:

Our pillaging army is attacked. It had 4/13hp left and it bravely defends against a LB. Against second LB there's no chance and the army dies. There was nothing I could do.

760AD (1):

Kills 3-1 for us. We also get a leader, which is hurried to Veii and a legion army is founded.

IT:Babys start Newton's University.

770AD (2):

Raze Liverpool and get 72gold. The english are rich! Kills for us 4-1.

780AD (3):

Kills 5-4. This can't be true?? 1/4 knight on an open spot does not retreat, but instead kills 2 of our units. Also a 4/4 legion loses to 4/4 LB on grassland. My luck with the RNG continues :mad:

IT: Lose 2 units on inter-turn against city attacks. This is not my day.

790AD (4):

Engineering comes in. Start monotheism to get chivalry later. Monotheism is due in 12turns @12turns, -10gpt.

Raze Delphi. No settler even close by. Kills 8-0. This was a good turn!

800AD (5):

Kills 2-0. Traffic is getting intense and the negative point is that enemy has only one unit per square, which discourages against attacks as retreating is not possible.

IT: Germans start Smith's Trading Academy.

810AD (6):

Kills 6-2. Raze Knossos next to Lutetia.

820AD (7):

Kills 3-2. Babys finish Smith's on the IT.

830AD (8):

Raze San Francisco. Kills 1-0.

840AD (9):

Palmyra founded on the spot of old San Francisco. Kills 0-0.

850AD (10):

Kills 1-0.

Final notes:

Lots of traffic. The enemy seems to be moving past our heavily defended towns, trying to get access to inland. If they are wounded from catapult fire, they retreat to heal.

There are 3 babylonian Knights next to Brundisium on a mountain. Handy has to deal with them.

N of Rome are 2 Russian knights advancing. Same deal, they need some attention.

-> There are some units with movement left, if you see a spot for an attack.

Overall the SE front is getting clear, I razed 4 cities, founded 2, but there are 3 more settlers active going for city spots. E of Lutetia there is one, the pike is one step ahead and is standing on the spot I thought for the city. Other two are taking the upper route along the road towards Neocalidonium.

On the science front I've been spending 20gp per turn to get Monotheism faster and then to chivalry. Monotheism is due in 6 turns.

After Herakleia is razed on the SE corner of the continent, I would lauch attack against Sparta and Argos and hope for a leader and rush Forbidden palace. We need the extra gp and that area is fine for some extra income.

1. Handy I got it
2. coletite
3. T_McC i
4. Tinkez
5. Yom

I'll send him a pm. If we don't hear back I'll pick it up. Sounds like we need some more cats.

EDIT - I got it

I've got time to play, and we are way behind most teams, so I'm going to jump in here. Yom can grab it after me.

WOW - there are AI all ove the place. :eek:

WOW. this is taking a long time.

I'll finish tomorrow. Through 5 turns of play:
1 leader
No cities lost, none razed. 2 founded. Regular hoplites are giving the armies in Greece fits. C3C armies are so much better.
We met India, Aztecs, Japan & Iroquois.
Large continent across the sea.
We got the world map & are at war with all but Iroquois.
Oh, and Babylon has cavalry.

Yom has withdrawn from the game since PYW won't work for him. so coletite will be up after I finish these rounds.

1. Handy - 5 turns done, will finish & post Friday night.
2. coletite
3. T_McC
4. Tinkez
5. Yom - withdrew. CD problems

Four new friends to play with

Babylon & France have cavalry.

Pre Turn 850 AD
Rename some cities with way too many letters in their names.
Wake some cats & bomb a little.
Note to Team: Use the “Y” key to sentry cats, when AI approaches they’ll wake up automatically. If you fortify units you are cheating yourself out of cat shots.
I don’t see the pillaging army. Maybe it got burned & I missed it in the turn log.
Economy looks a good bit better.
Decide to wait for the knights to get off the mountain. If they attack Brundisium that’s okay. We have an army with 50% defense bonus there.
Uh-Oh. Antium is size 6 with an aqueduct but is not growing. Mm tiles to fix that.
Shuffle a pike to Luna.
Let’s Rumble.

IBT
Two Russian knights attack Roma. We kill 1 and lose a pike.
The three Babylonian knights all die.

Turn 1 860
I’m going to set Roma us as bait by moving all but 2 horses out of the city. If knights get to close I’ll move legions back in.
If we can funnel the AI to the flats N of Rome & attack from the hills we can farm elites in the kill zone.
Kill 2 knights @ Veii
Cats perform terrible. :mad:
Kill a Greek Hoplite and Settler
Don’t forget, we can build fortresses on the iron hills

IBT
Not much I remember. We didn’t lose anything.

Turn 2 870
Kill 2 Babylonian Knights. I’m attacking, then covering attacked units with an army to avoid counter attack. After making sure our cities are safe. :D
Rome & Veii are a nice flat kill zone.
Is it possible there is another continent in this game? Lots of dark space on the mini-map
MM with 10,6,5 multiples in mind. Managed to get a couple up to 10 spt.
Lug get a court going.

IBT
Well, I guess there is another continent since Japan just offered us his territory map for 22 gold and out territory map. He has 14 cities. Japan is in the north and there may be a big land mass to his south.

If you run out of opponents because you haven't met them yet and 20 turns have elapsed, you must declare war on the next opponent you meet before leaving the diplomacy screen for the first time with them
I don’t think we have made a declaration in the last 20 turns, so I ask Japan for Mono & contact with India. After a few tries I get offered Japan’s TM, Mono & contact with India for WM +120 gold. I decide to take it.
India dials us up. After a few offers to him, I settle for India’s WM+5g+contact with Iroquois for our WM + contact with America.
Iroquois dial us up. We trade Wmaps.
There is a big stinking continent over there!
Aztecs dial us up and we trade WMs
We get a defensive leader from an elite Pike :D
English want to talk. No thanks

Turn 3 880
BTW – we are at war with Japan now.
India after that, then Iroquois, then Aztecs
Found Jerusalem
Kill 7 units, no losses.
Neocal starts a harbor. Maybe we can do some 20 turn lux trades before we have to declare.
Chivalry in 15.

IBT
Babylon talks Aztecs into declaring on us.

Turn 4 890
Kill 5 units. 1 loss. Lots of we bomb & they retreat .
Babylon has cavalry
Found Caesarea

IBT
India declare on us
Babylon complete Newton
Babylonian cav kills a legion

Turn 5 900
Kill one cavalry, some knights and LBs
Kill a cav but lose a legion in the process.

Now where did I leave off last night…Oh yeah, screaming at the RNG for allowing a single hoplite not on a hill to redline a 4 legion army.
Our kill ratio has been great up top this point. But there have been a lot of AI units I bombed but could not attack without fear of counter attack, and now Babylon has cavalry.

IBT
Greeks want an audience
The pike at Syracuse id doing a awesome job, and he has killed LBs, knights, you name it. I’d like to get a second Pike there to reinforce. If the Ai is dumb enough to attack…

Turn 6 910
Raze Herakleia Army can now rest & pair up with the other army & the next player can sweep the are clear of Greeks and get the 4th lux
I built the city where it could eventually get two fish, and is 2 tiles from Caesarea. We need another city between Caesara & Palmyra 2 tiles from each. I started walls & thought we could build temple after that. Gosh this is a fun game.
Chivalry in 13 + 19 gpt. With 11 in the bank we can upgrade one spear to a pike each turn.
I hope to go on offense with the sword armies in the west when they heal.
Five elite wins that round with no leader.

IBT
France has cavalry now
Kill 3 no losses. Pike @ Syracuse got 2 LBs that turn
I guess we can make short peace deals with India, & Aztecs if we have an opportunity.

Turn 7 920

Notes:
I saw a few cities building military from a city with no barracks. Don’t do that. Build a barracks first, or just build cats or workers or something.
We need another city between Caesara & Palmyra 2 tiles from each.
Ugh. Two Vet legions lose to an unfortified regular LBs on flat land. Back to back! That hurts.

IBT
More bad news.
Pike in Syracuse dies to a Longbow.
Cavalry kills a legion.


Turn 8 930
Slider can go to Chivalry in 6 +3gpt because of recent unit losses.
Neocal (on the coast in the east – near ruins of Athens) is under heavy Babylonian cavalry attack.
These cavalry are going to start giving us fits pretty soon.

IBT
Redlined cav attacks picks off a wounded legion. My bad, I thought it would retreat.

Turn 9 940
Good news - we get another leader. Bad news, we need more cities. Quick count shows we have 23 cities, and we have a settler in the SE so I’ll build an empty army in Rome you can fill with knights. (Chivalry in 5)

Turn 10
No notes. Not much happened i guess. :crazyeye:

Oh - somewhere in the Aztecs declared on us during an IBT. I think I forgot to type it.

Notes:
Pisae needs to kick out a worker or settle after it competes the cat.
I was thinking the workers in Veii should go build a fortress on the wines & iron near Roma.
Keep roading & mining the hills SW of Ravenna. Then chop the forest and irrigate between Ravenna & Pisae
I was thinking we could send the 2 legion armies off to start razing cities pretty soon. Maybe wait for the knight army.
I build quite a few cats, we can build more to drag along with the 2 legion armies.
Settler near Caesarea is 1 tile ahead of his escort. Place him on the coast between coletiteville and Tinkez City. :D Where the worker currently is.
You’ll need to chain some legions over to Neocal (near old Athens) since Babylon is sending cavalry there. Coletite – do you know what I mean when I say chain legions to Neocon? (a) Move newly created legion from Veii to Rome. (b) That frees up a legion from Rome to go to Brundisium, etc. You can chain a legion over the neo con pretty fast that way.
Leader is in Roma.
Chivalry in 4 –1gpt. When it comes in, be sure to switch legion builds over to Knights, and fill the army.

Not sure the best way to win this. We could keep the armies home & play defense. But perhaps it’s better to stack 3 or 4 legion armies up with 10 cats and go start razing Ai cities. If we can survive to cavalry, and then rails we can win this. Any thoughts are appreciated.

If we make peace, we need to re-declare as follows:
India in 12 – won’t talk to us.
Iroquois in 32
Aztecs in 52 – won’t yet talk to us.

Good luck – watch for the cavalry – 3 moves in our territory.

950 ad save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/handy_SG003_AD0950_01.SAV)

1. Handy
2. coletite - UP
3. T_McC
4. Tinkez
5. Yom - scratched

Whew. I got stressed out just reading the turn log!

I think I understand the chaining concept: If city A is a long way from city D, then you can move a unit into city A, then move a unit that was in city A into city B, then a unit from city B into city C and so on. This is so you keep defenders/MPs in each city, right?

I'll try to play tomorrow. I'm scared out of my wits though. Cavalry. And we don't even have knights yet... But at least we have some nifty armies!

Ok. Goals as I understand them:

1) Once offensive armies heal, start razing enemy cities. Should I send some cats with them or save them for defending the homeland?

2) Once chivalry comes in, start building knights. I don't think we'll have enough gold to make any upgrades. What are we researching after chivalry?

3) Survive!

Do I need to declare on anyone these turns?

Whew. I got stressed out just reading the turn log.
Me too. The turns take a long time to play, so take your time and think the moves through before making them. Focus on the enemy cavalry as Handy suggested.

I think I understand the chaining concept: If city A is a long way from city D, then you can move a unit into city A, then move a unit that was in city A into city B, then a unit from city B into city C and so on. This is so you keep defenders/MPs in each city, right?
Correct.

1) Once offensive armies heal, start razing enemy cities. Should I send some cats with them or save them for defending the homeland?
You need the cats with the armys just bring the hp's down from the enemy before attacking. Remember to leave some home too as enemy will keep attacking us there.

2) Once chivalry comes in, start building knights. I don't think we'll have enough gold to make any upgrades. What are we researching after chivalry?
Go towards Invention and Gunpowder. Gunpowder brings us muskets and closer to cavalry.

3) Survive!
Exactly!

Do I need to declare on anyone these turns?No.

Hey, Did we build the Forbidden Palace yet? I don't think we did. Although we do not have a perfect site, maybe we should consider using the leader for that.

Good Job on the Q & A Tinkez. :thumbsup:

Coletite, If the traffic is too heavy during your turns, you can leave the armies at home for defense. If you do take the armies out on the road, I'd bring 10 cats with them to take hit points & pop points off the AI cities. PTW armies are weak & heal slowly, so take three in a stack if you can.

2spt and 3 spt cities are good cities to build cats in.

Those 1spt cities in the SE (Old Greece) are good for workers. Make sure they have 2 food per turn before you assign a worker build.

Check for barracks before you start to build a unit.

We are at a critical stage in this game. If we don't go on offense I fear the AI will overwhelm us as they will surely all soon have cavalry researched, and babylon can't be too far from rails.

Besure to take a horse with the armies if go on offense with the armies so you can pliiage along the way.

Good Luck :thumbsup:

Watch those cavalry. They love to attack workers, and can move three tiles in our territory. Workers that used to be safe are now vulnerabel.

I left some legions in our southern coastal cities because the AI loves to drop cavalry off of galleys in the softly defended coastal cities. Check - but I think all coastal cities have walls, or are building them.

Here's the deal: I have just started playing (hectic Saturday) but I'd like to decide on something before I continue if we can do so quickly.

We cannot support another army right now. The way we've been getting leaders, holding onto one until we can support another army is shooting ourselves in the foot. I think we should build the Forbidden Palace. What we need to decide is where?

[edit] If I don't hear anything from anyone by tomorrow morning, I'll go ahead and make the decision myself.

I'd nominate Byzantium with an eye towards abandoning the city later to move the FP into French territory.

Anyone else notice the rails in France? :eek:

Anyone else notice the rails in France? :eek:[/QUOTE]

I missed that. I noticed their cavalry, but not the rails. As my philosopher/redneck/neighbor would say: this is un-good. So many AI so far ahead. It's gonna be hard to reel these guys back in. We would have a much better chance with C3C armies.


Yeah, let's build the FP. We could use the production. We can always disband a legion army to replace it with a knight army later.

I've decided to only play 5 turns for 2 reasons:

1) it takes me a LONG time to play
2) I am in WAY over my head here.

5 turns gives me an opportunity to learn from the game (and have fun) while minimizing the damage I can do. I hope this is OK with everyone else.

I actually saved the game at the beginning of turn 5. There are about 5 or 6 cavalry heading south past Neocal.

Pre-flight

Gulp. Well, at least there aren’t many Calvary… yet.

Listen all you primitive AI wimps. This is my BOOM stick! Come get some!”

IBT

Some milling about, but their too scared to attack.
We’ve got enemy in the southern regions!

Brund ‘rax-legion

960 AD (1)

Kills: 1
Losses: 1

?!?! A fully healed legion army went to YELLOW against a REDLINED musketeer!!

IBT

Yes! An elite legion on a hill defended against a cavalry and spawned a leader!
Build FP in Byzantium (went from –2 gpt to +16)

970 AD (2)

Ok. We have a leader but are one city short of creating another army. We have a settler, but due to heavy enemy traffic he cannot build a city in a “good” location. Since we will have other settlers soon, I’m going to build a city in a less prime location for the added troop support and ability to build another army.

Trying to get reinforcements to Neocal, but there are 2 cavalry on mountains blocking the way.

Our southern cities are poorly defended

IBT


980 AD (3)

Founded Nicomedia (bunch of hills to the east)
Built army to fill with knights

IBT

Wow. Talk about fitting… we lost Coletiteville.
…and Nicomedia

990 AD (4)

Ok. It looks bleak, but chivalry just came in.
Not enough gold to upgrade


IBT

Germany build Magellan’s




I didn't post the save on the scoreboard (should I?)

The save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/handy_SG003_1000AD_01.SAV)

I'll peek at the save & post some tips, but plan to play 5 more turns. If you only play 5, it eliminates us from the SGOTM competition. Not that that matters too much since I'm kinda getting a bad vibe in this one. French rails & cavalry plus so many AI's all trading and working against us is going to snowball very quickly.

Five turns won't make or break us, and you may learn something.

Ok. I didn't realize that we HAD to play 10 turns.

What I'm having the most trouble with is:

1) Where to build cities. The biggest problem is defending them. There are enemies everywhere.

2) How many units are needed to defend a city. With cavalry storming the borders, I feel like we need as many defenders as possible. The pikes do OK and they would be fine against one AI's inability to attack with more than a couple of units, but with all the AIs only sending a few units, it adds up. And the catapults have been missing a lot.

3) Knowing what to do with the workers. Although this one isn't such a problem, I just get worried about having them in areas that need them the most since this is where most of the enemies are.

I don't remember (I'm at work) but I think I was having trouble getting units over to Neocal because of enemy cavalry. But maybe with knights it will be easier.

Sorry about holding up the game so much.

1000 ad peek @ the save. :eek:

Yikes – the Babylonians really want Neocal! Six cavalry. Baylon & France both have rails & cavalry. Russia can’t be too far behind.

Don’t try to settle any new towns yet. They would just get razed.

Play defense and try to hold the AI off if you can.

20/20 hindsight – we should have had several armies out pillaging before now.

I think you can stick a fork in us, because we’re done. Nevertheless, let’s play on and see if we can pull a rabbit out of a hat with a couple of sword armies on a raze rampage.

I wish a I had some magic advice to give. I’d send 1 or 2 legion armies out towards the French & Babylonian Iron to pillage them. That’s about our only chance is to pillage the AI back to the stone age. Unfortunately, armies in PTW are not very well suited for this.

Change all the legion builds to knights.
Stop building settlers. Keep building cats and knights.

Thanks Handy. I'll try to hold the borders for another five turns.

Thanks Handy. I'll try to hold the borders for another five turns.

I played a few turns. Got lucky and popped another leader which eventually got us 2 knight armies. We ain't dead yet, but we are way behind. Let's see if we can hang on to the cavalry + cannon + rails phase. Rails make defense a whol lot better. Of course of we have no coal, we're toasted.

Did you build the FP?

Either way. Do your best and treat it as a learning experience. :)

Yes. The FP is in Byzantium.

1000 AD (5)

I opted to lower our research by 10% in order to get some cash to upgrade horses to knights


IBT

The cats from last turn did a good job repelling invaders

1010 AD (6)

Japan and Aztecs have joined the party…
Just got another leader
I’ve spotted a French Rifleman

IBT

Jerusalem fell

1020 AD (7)


IBT

Still holding…

1030 AD (8)

Brought research back up by 10%

IBT

Still holding…

1040 AD (9)

½ full knight army

IBT

Byzantium has been captured.

1050 AD (10)

We now have a full knight army



Sorry about Byzantium. With units being dropped off all along the coast and cavalry able to move 3 tiles, it was very hard to defend all the cities. Those cavalry can eat through legions.

So coletite - how do you like always war emperor? :lol:

This has been a hard game. Lots of enemies, big land mass. A real AI dogpile.


1. Handy
2. coletite
3. T_McC is in the hot seat
4. Tinkez
5. Yom

In so many AWE games you see the discussion along the lines of using an islands map so that you don't face many opponents at once, and having the minimum number of opponents, none of which are militaristic, getting a nice start, only having to defend one front etc. This game was proper AWE. Lots of aggressive civs all around you, big mountain ranges for them to get a hold. All sorts of things that allow you to say you've done it properly. In one variation I actually had Japan instead of England. That was a fairly short game, so think yourselves lucky. :)

Always war emperor... considering I just lost a private monarch game in 22 minutes, I think I'll hold off on another AW for a long time... unless it's on warlord!

20/20 hindsight – we should have had several armies out pillaging before now.

Don't kick yourself too hard about pillaging. It is turned off in this game. If I understood correctly (and I probably didn't) It had somthing to do with the GTOM and .bic files. but it has been tested and confirmed that you cannot pilliage with armies.

Don't kick yourself too hard about pillaging. It is turned off in this game. If I understood correctly (and I probably didn't) It had somthing to do with the GTOM and .bic files. but it has been tested and confirmed that you cannot pilliage with armies.

Did not know that. What we did early in the game was place a horse under the army. The horse would pillage, then move and the army would move to cover and protect the horse. This was done to speed up pillaging, not to circumvent a rule. If you send a PTW army out solo, it's pillage, move, pillage, move... taking way too long to do much damage. So, thanks for the heads up on the armies.

Not sure what happened to our pillaging legion army from early on. Pillaging is top priority in an AW game to break AI deals, disconnect resources and slow down the tech pace. The only efficient way to do this in PTW with slow moving armies is to place 4 to 6 explorers under the army that pillage tiles, and move back under army protection each turn. If we can survive until we can build explorers, maybe we can turn this around.

This was done to speed up pillaging, not to circumvent a rule.
I did not mention it because I thought you were skirting around a rule. I mention it to keep you from beating your head against a wall like some of the teams did trying to figure out why their armies would not pilliage stuff

I did not mention it because I thought you were skirting around a rule. I mention it to keep you from beating your head against a wall like some of the teams did trying to figure out why their armies would not pilliage stuff

I didn't think you meant it that way, I just said that for the benfit of Mad-Bax :) That's how I always pillage with PTW armies before explorers are available. :D Thanks again for the heads up.

Well I got this. Won't play until tomorrow night.

I wouldn't worry about not being able to pillage with our Armies. Unfortunately, in PTW AW games get a double-dose of luck-based outcomes. We have had at least average leader luck in terms of # of Elite attacks/leader, but horrible luck with the timing of those leaders. We have what, 7 Armies and an FP, Heroic Epic and Pentagon from 10 leaders? Were these C3C Armies we'd be kicking 6 kinds of ass, but in PTW Armies kind of suck. You need to be able to rush wonders. And that is where the "competition" is primarily a contest of random numbers. Had we popped a leader during the time between our discovering Lit and the Great Library being built, we'd be very likely to also have at least a few of Sun Tzu's, Leo's, or Bachs because we would be current with the leaders in tech. We'll see how well the results correlate with that statement, but the cynical view of things says that the timing of a single leader could result in 3-4 Wonders, not just one. That's neither a complaint nor a surprise in PTW AW.

Now that we have a Knight Army I'll at least be able to see if it can blitz. I honestly can't remember back to PTW whether a 2-move Army can attack twice before Tanks.

:confused:
XTeam used armies for pillaging.

Btw: good luck :thumbsup:

:confused:
XTeam used armies for pillaging.

Btw: good luck :thumbsup:

Captain I don't think we did. We used armies to cover a pillaging horseman just like these guys.

I'm through five, but it's kind of ugly. We'll survive the round. Finish it tomorrow morning.

1050 AD (0)
My, look at all of those Cavalry! I think this is my last turn in this one. :cry:

Hurry Cathedral in Roma with the leader, I may get another before the IT is out.

Actually, a good question is whether we make it through these turns.

IT - Lose 2 units on the IT, but also our FP city due to only 1 defender being able to reach it.

1060 AD (1)
Pop a leader and rush FP in Ravenna.

IT - Lose two cities in the south that I had semi-abandoned.

1090 AD (4)
I never thought this could be the case, but the AI's inability to stack units is costing us. There is too much traffic to allow me to finish off red-lined units and not leave our Legions exposed.

1100 AD (5)
I don't think any cities changed hands.

1110 AD (6)
Good Lord these IT's are taking forever.

1120 AD (7)
And the roof starts to cave in.

1140 AD (9)
Boy, you know the game isn't going well when you find the occasion to use the phrase "Tactical Retreat".

1150 AD (10)
It has reached the point where I would walk away from the computer during the IT, and then try to figure out what happened.

This is normally poor SG etiquette, but I leave all units with full movement points for Tinkez. He'll have to decide how he wants to defend, and I don't want to tie his hands. I would consider it an accomplishment if you can make it through your 10 turns with us alive.

The empty city of Pisae was part of my tactical retreat. The AI was just too dumb to take it.

I think once one domino falls, the other may go in rapid succession.

Regardless, it was a fun game. Always good to play with new people, and I feel that Handy and I failed you in our strategy. Too many AW in C3C to appreciate the differences, and I think we had a completely inappropriate strategy to open.

1050 AD (0)... I think we had a completely inappropriate strategy to open.

Yup.

Tinkez is up

Captain I don't think we did. We used armies to cover a pillaging horseman just like these guys.

Ok, I can't remember actually razing with an army myself, so I'll just have to pimp out by claiming I tried to confuse team Handy :cool:

I'm currently all tied up with work and won't have chance to play before weekend. I've understood from the turnlog that the game about lost. If someone wants to play the final turns, go ahead, otherwise I'll concentrate on this game on the weekend.

Pre-Turn: Wow. Things have changed since my last peek. And change has been bad :( Well, I'm giving this a shot anyway. Don't play much spots like this, if a game is in a spot like this, then I'll abandon it already earlier. I see we have a leader. We cannot build armies, as we have reached the limit. Then I just use him for something as at this point the main thing seems to be surviving -> rush knight in a town with longest build time: Lutetia in eastern front with fewest troops. We have 7 turns to gunpowder. That would be nice, but I wonder do we survive to that. I decide to drop down research to get cash for troops rushing and some upgrades. We get +47gpt.

Movements: Kill and bombard few enemies, but nothing special.

IBT: Pisae is captured by babylonias. Atzecs land SoD between Cumae and Pompeii: 3 cavalry and 3 knights.

1160AD(1): We have 1 warrior defending Cumae and 1 legionary defending Pompeii. Wow. I'll leave the workes out on the open, maybe they capture them. Almost all of the catapults miss, just the news I was expecting :rolleyes: Nothing much to do, move some troops to strenghten defence near Atzec SoD.

IBT: No good news. Atzec SoD attacks Cumae where I was able to move one knight, one pike and upgrade the warrior to legionary. LAST attacker takes the city. I was almost hoping for a miracle. Spice is under heavy attack from babylonian cavalry, but we have a brave spearman who defends the city!

1170AD(2):

Spice city will fall next turn. No chance of reinforcements getting there.

Hahaa! My knight kills the cavalry from the conquered Cumae. We can keep the city as it's all our citizens. We also sink 2 atzec transports!

Ravenna is surrounded by enemy cavalry. I bombard a route for one pikeman to hurry for reinforcements, but I doubt it'll hold if AI attacks.

IBT:
Aztecs take Lutetia.
Then the huge siege on Ravenna starts. English attack first, they are repelled. Then comes Russian cossacks. 2nd cossack takes Ravenna and captures our ~8 catapults.
Babys start their movement and take Spice city. Then they attack Veii, which falls easily under their cavalry as I had only one pike and one horse defending there.
As a result from these losses all of our cities revolt :(
Japanese start Universal Suffrage.

1180AD(3): We still have 10 cities. This won't take long. I move army from Brundisium to Rome. Army from Rome moves to kill 1hp units and kills two cavalry.

IBT:
Russians are strong. Lot's of cossacks moving around. Some of them take Antium.
Babylonians take Cumae.
Our dominoplay has fallen hard and fast. There's nothing to do as every civ has RoP with each other. They use our old road network and rip us to pieces easily.
English take Lugdunum as the last thing on this IBT.

1190AD(4):
Now we make -8gpt. We have 7 cities left. Now the game crashes. Reload.
Army takes Lutetia back. Notice that we build only spearmen, longbowmen and horsemen. No more iron. Not that we would have time finish some troops :lol:

IBT: Pompeii IS BURNED by the english. No other losses expect barracks as we don't have gold.

1200AD(5): Our 17/17 army attack cavalry and wins REDLINING (5/17). That army will be toast in the next IBT.
Vet knight loses to 1/4 French cavalry. The RNG can't watch this massacre anymore and speeds up the process :lol:
We still have Syracuse with the army as all AI is just passing by. I start to wonder wheter or not they will attack cities with armies before they've taken everything else?

IBT:Like request: Germans attack against Syracuse with 6 knights. 2 of them are killed, other ones redlined and our army is still in green.
Brundisium is captured by the French.
Our army is toasted on a hill as expected :( It was a bad move to attack last turn.
One catapult is disbanded as we are short of cash (-20gpt)

1210AD(6): Kill 4 enemy cavalry with armies.

IBT: Russian cossacks attack Rome against our knight army. Army defends bravely killing 4 cossacks, but redlining in process.
Babys continue attack on Rome, and lose 2 more cavalry. Then the third one is too much and Rome IS BURNED to the ground.
French assault on Luna, but the defences hold.

1220AD(7): Nothing to attack as we don't have troops. Enemy is two steps away from Syracuse or with single units on mountain.

IBT: We don't lose any cities!

1230AD(8):Couple of bombards, nothing else to do.

IBT: Luna falls to Babylon.
Syracuse is burned to the ground by the English.

1240AD(9):We're down to 3 cities.

IBT: Lutetia holds with the army, which is left with 1hp. We would have needed that kind of RNG much earlier :lol:

1250AD(10): Nothing to do. I'll finish this as there's nothing to do to prevent this. At least I stayed alive the 10 next turns what T_McC doubted. Can I now join the Grumpy old men? :joke:

IBT: Neocal (by French) and Lutetia (by Babylon) are captured.

1255AD(11): Most likely final turn. I can only press enter with our final city.

IBT: Only one French cavalry attacks, that is repelled. 3 more French cavalry stand next to Ceasarea.

1260AD(12):Our army redlines one cavalry which retreats.

IBT: Ceasarea is taken and we lose.

That's it. Had fun until my last turn. That was just sarcastical round :lol:

I uploaded the 1250AD save to the server and also the last turn save. Feel free to take a peek if you want to. Had fun playing with you all, too bad we lost.

Thanks guys! :thanx:

SAVE - 1250AD (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/handy_SG003_AD1250_01.SAV)

CONQUEST DEFEAT (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm3/handy_SG003_AD1260_01.SAV)

It was a harrowing experience! But at least we're not the lowest score!

Thanks for finishing this out Tinkez. Sorry I did such a lousy job as leader. :(

But there's always another game to play. :)

Well guys, it was a tough, tough game. :eek: Hope to see you guys back and unbowed for SGOTM4.